Bad Timing Is A Scapegoat We Could All Use
The News Press reports from Florida. “The old Lochmoor Country Club in North Fort Myers will be auctioned April 14 on the courthouse steps for more than $94 million - the biggest foreclosure in Lee County history, according to local real estate experts. Minneapolis-based Marshall Investments Corp. lent the developer, Paradise Preserve LLC, $79 million in 2005 for the ambitious redevelopment of the golf course and marina. Paradise Preserve paid $54 million for the bulk of the land but never built the three 26-story condominiums, revamped marina and $22 million golf course that developers had envisioned.”
“The auction won’t bring close to the $94 million, which consists of $79.1 million in loans plus interest and fees, said Fort Myers real estate broker Ed Bonkowski, who handled the Sheraton’s sale in 1990. Essentially, he said, the property is ‘a nondescript golf course and the water views’ for homes that could be built there. It probably would go for about $7 million, Bonkowski said. ‘It has limited value in today’s market,’ Bonkowski said. ‘It’s unfinanceable.’”
“The project was started months before the local real estate market started to collapse, but the developer, Darin Smith, said ‘bad timing is a scapegoat we could all use.’”
“Until Lochmoor, the biggest foreclosure was the 24-story Sheraton Hotel in downtown Fort Myers. It’s been closed since October. That property sold for $6.7 million although it had $43 million in debts.”
“It’s more useful, he said, to look at the bad government policies that led to loose lending policies by banks and ultimately caused the crash. ‘We’re just one tiny component of that,’ Smith said. Three years ago, ‘we had our project; the first leg of it was virtually sold out,’ said Smith.”
The Daily Business Review. “Many high-end South Florida communities — especially in Boca Raton, Delray Beach and Boynton Beach — have imposed mandatory club fees in recent years. The cost can range from a few thousand dollars to more than $20,000 per year. Buyers also face a one-time fee of up to $50,000 to join. They help pay for maintenance and activities at the clubs. Several lawsuits were filed by homeowners who thought the requirement was unfair and some of these legal battles have lingered for years.”
“Stevi Nichols is one of the residents suing the Hamlet association. ‘It’s a terrible situation,’ said Nichols, who allowed a lender to foreclose on the house after unsuccessfully trying to sell it. ‘The assessments got ridiculous after we bought it. There was one for some $40,000. My husband is retired military. We didn’t have that kind of money.’”
“Nichols said she paid $365,000 for the home in 2004 and invested another $100,000 in upgrades. ‘I couldn’t even find a buyer that would pay $200,000 so I walked from it and we moved back to Colorado,’ she said.”
The Associated Press. “Money is already tight at The Wilshire Condominium, and new lending rules threaten to make life even more difficult for it and other condos around the country. Arthur Barr, a board member of the Wilshire homeowners association, estimates 30 percent of the owners in the 378-unit building in North Miami Beach are behind on their fees. That makes it difficult to pay for things like elevator repairs and gardening.”
“Now, Fannie Mae — the biggest player in the mortgage market — wants to ensure that if it’s backing a loan for a condominium, the building is in good shape. If the building is brand new, Fannie Mae wants to be certain there are enough owners to pay for maintenance and preserve the value of the property.”
“‘By setting the higher threshold they’ve reduced their risk of making these loans, but they’ve also virtually killed the potential for many projects to be successful,’ said developer Jeff Spear, owner of The Spear Group in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. ‘It’s going to make it extremely difficult for this inventory to get absorbed.’”
“The riskiest market in the country is Miami, which saw a building boom beginning in 2002. Since then, about 38,000 condo units have been built or are under construction in Miami-Dade County, with more than 22,000 of those concentrated in or near Miami, said Jack McCabe, president of McCabe Research & Consulting. ‘It’s not surprising that developers are talking about a death spiral,’ McCabe said. ‘There are so many units that are unsold and they are unable to pay off construction loans.’”
“He estimated that as much as 40 percent of the 16,000 completed units in Miami remain unoccupied. More than a half-dozen condo projects in the Miami area are stalled because sales have slowed to a crawl and the credit needed to build them has disappeared, said Jennifer Drake, real estate attorney with Becker & Poliakoff.”
“The excess condo development and subsequent financial problems were fueled in part by speculators like Izad Djahanshahi, who invested in 41 units during the real estate frenzy that gripped Miami from 2002 to 2005. Now, he has eight condos in foreclosure. He has filed for bankruptcy protection from creditors and estimates he owes about $500,000 in back mortgage payments.”
“‘We just bought and sold and bought and sold,’ said Djahanshahi. ‘We kept the money in the company and we invested more and more. Suddenly, everything stopped.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “The flood of foreclosed properties on the market in the Orlando area has given a lift to existing-home sales in recent months, but it’s also drowning builders’ hopes of speedily selling their backlog of finished-but-vacant houses. As a result, builders in three counties are pooling their resources for an unprecedented, new-homes-only auction, in an attempt to unload as many of their unsold houses as they can, as fast as they can.”
“A half-dozen finished-but-vacant homes in the Oakland Park subdivision of west Orange County, for example, are among at least 25 in the region scheduled to go to auction March 28. Oakland Park, developed by California-based Castle & Cooke Inc., has been marketing its homes since mid-2007 but, nearly two years later, has sold only three.”
“One 3,735-square-foot home in the community went for $454,000 in October, according to county land records, yet nearby on the same street, four vacant homes are scheduled to be auctioned with starting bids as low as $175,000.
“‘It’s not uncommon for me to look at a market and see builders trying to sell below replacement cost,’ said housing analyst Anthony Crocco. ‘They have to go below cost, to fight the foreclosure situation.’”
“The number of Metro Orlando homes in some stage of bank repossession continued to rise last month. The four-county metro area had 7,690 homes with a foreclosure filing, notice of foreclosure sale or repossession by a lender — more than twice as many as in February 2008, according to RealtyTrac Inc. Meanwhile, there were 3,309 finished-but-unsold homes in Metro Orlando subdivisions at year’s end, according to Metrostudy’s most recent survey, and many of them are surrounded by houses in some stage of foreclosure.”
“In the same Winter Garden-area ZIP code where the all-new Oakland Park development is located, for example, there are more than 1,560 foreclosure properties, according to RealtyTrac. ‘There’s just a lot of foreclosures at the bottom of the pile,’ Crocco said. ‘My sense is that there’s more pressure [on new-home prices] from foreclosures than anything at this point, and job losses are going to have an [additional] impact.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Newly released statistics from the Florida Department of Revenue show that no single area was immune as sales on almost everything from aircraft to food and beverages fell 2 percent statewide. But those counties most strongly tied to the housing boom saw even steeper declines.”
“‘No place is immune from the downturn in the economy, but certainly the housing boom and bust played themselves out unevenly,’ said Sean Snaith, an economist at the University of Central Florida. ‘Some areas have been crushed by it.’”
“Early in 2008, pawn shops in Sarasota County were averaging about $500,000 a month. That started changing in March as foreclosures intensified. Sales jumped to $1.8 million in March and $2.6 million in May, and again in September when the stock market plummeted and local pawn shops did a brisk $2.3 million. Since then, though, pawn shop sales have slid to well below $1 million per month, perhaps suggesting that many people have pawned what they had to offer.”
“Desperation has made for great bargains for those still spending, said Nancy Dunn, who handles estate sales in the region. Dunn, who has been in business for 15 years, started getting a lot of business from foreclosure sales early last year. Last week, Dunn had a sale in Palm Aire for a British couple selling everything they owned in Sarasota. Some of the furniture had only been in use for 12 weeks, she said.”
“Like others that tend to see better sales in bad times, Goodwill Industries of Manasota Inc. is seeing a rise in demand. But that is being tempered by a big drop in donations, said marketing director LuAnne Kirschner. ‘With so many women losing their jobs, we have people coming in and saying ‘I never shopped at Goodwill, but now you are my Dillard’s,’ Kirschner said.”
“Pummeled by the real estate market crash and the national recession, Florida’s growth fizzled to less than 1 percent last year, according to new U.S. census data. Nowhere in the state felt as big a blow from the slowdown as Charlotte County, where the population dropped by 2,400 residents — or 16 people for every 1,000, Florida’s largest per capita decline.”
“‘Charlotte County has tended to be reliant on construction and given the current state of the construction industry in Florida and the country at large, those jobs have been lost,’ said Charlotte County planner Matt Trepal.”
“Adding to the job losses pushing Floridians to other states, the recession and housing slump kept people from moving in, said Scott Cody, a population expert at the University of Florida. ‘With people unable to sell their houses it’s harder for a lot of people to move to Florida,’ Cody said. ‘All the other states ought to have a similar problem, but I think we relied on a lot of retirees.’”
“Cody said Florida’s already substantial population of 18.3 million could be encouraging the retirees who can afford to move to seek less expensive properties in Georgia, North Carolina and Arizona. ‘As Florida has gotten more expensive, people are looking at those other alternatives,’ he said.”
The Wall Street Journal. “Demographers say the dropoff in migration, shown in Census data to be released Thursday, is among the sharpest since the Great Depression. It marks the end of what Brookings Institution demographer William Frey calls a ‘migration bubble.’”
“In many cases, people living in higher-cost housing markets such as San Francisco and New York cashed in their real-estate winnings and moved to outlying counties, or to states like Florida and Nevada, hoping to find a cheaper house and pocket the difference. Now, ‘people are hanging tight; they’re too scared to do anything,’ said Mr. Frey.”
“Jeff Fallon, a managing partner at a private-equity firm in Cleveland, made two trips to Florida last year looking to buy a home in the Sarasota area. But with the stock market down and real-estate prices still falling, Mr. Fallon decided to hold off for a bit. ‘I was looking at a substantial amount of our personal wealth disappear as the stock market spiraled down,’ he said. ‘It certainly had a lot of bearing on whether or not I was willing to invest in a second home.’”
The Sun Sentinel. “Major lenders — Bank of America, Wells Fargo and others — say they’re working under the new Department of Treasury program that began this month to change the terms of a mortgage such as reducing the interest rate to make them more affordable. But readers and consumer advocates say few people are getting approved for a new loan. Rules seem to keep changing on who lenders want — people in default or not, for example. Some loan modifications aren’t resulting in lower payments for troubled borrowers.”
“‘I am not seeing a lot of loan modifications succeed,’ said attorney Jeffrey Tromberg of the Florida Debt Relief Center in Fort Lauderdale.”
From ABC News. “The big, bright, four-bedroom Florida dream house was proof for Dr. Dan Howard and his fiance, Nickie Struthers, that they had finally made it. ‘I think of being proud and showing her ‘Look, I can provide this, you know, for our family,’ said Howard, a surgeon. ‘That was a good moment in life.’”
“Howard, who is beginning to establish his medical career, and Struthers, a real estate agent and mom, stretched their budget to buy at the top of the housing bubble. Then their own bubble burst, with a one-two punch of illness and economic downturn. ‘We, we had planned on two incomes,’ said Howard. He and his fiance both dismissed the notion that someone in the medical field might be immune to economic hardship.”
“‘Things happen to doctors’ families too,’ Struthers said. ‘Yeah, the same way it happens to Joe the Plumber,’ added Howard.”
“Falling behind in their payments, the couple asked their bank for a loan modification — a lowered interest rate that would bring their monthly obligation way down. The bank said no, but then Struthers received a phone call from an acquaintance. The couple wrote the man a check for almost $3,500. What they didn’t know was that they were being sucked into a whole new industry, often staffed by former mortgage brokers who helped fuel the crisis and are now making their living off troubled homeowners.”
“Last year, Jay Nichols was employed as a salesman at what he describes as an aggressive loan modification company, People’s First Financial in San Diego. He said the mantra was: ‘Sell — sell hard … trying to get as much money as they could, as quickly as they could.’ He said the sales staff was revved up at training sessions that included such movies as ‘Boiler Room,’ which glamorized a hard sell.”
“A current People’s First Financial employee who asked not to be identified said customers were signed up even when they had almost no chance of qualifying for bank renegotiation. ‘And sometimes the salesperson just didn’t care to check if they even could,’ the employee said.”
“Debbie Dillon and her husband, Don Dillon, live 2,000 miles from San Diego, in tiny Boyceville, Wisconsin, and they, too, were facing the loss of their home. The Dillons said People’s First told them to stop making mortgage payments and avoid talking to their bank. Howard and Struthers said the independent broker they dealt with gave the same advice. ‘Six months went by and I thought, what in the world have we just done,’ Howard said. ‘Here we are now six months down the road having not paid any payments on our mortgages. And nothing’s going on.’”
“Meanwhile, after months of waiting, Howard and Struthers’ independent broker left them with no modification and no help in reducing their mortgage. ‘We are going to have to pay, and I’m not sure how we’re going to do that,’ Howard said. ‘This has gone from something bad to something really bad. Just never in a million years would [we] have dreamed to be in this position,’ said Struthers. ‘It’s embarrassing.’”
“The Dillons will say goodbye to the home where Dan Dillon said they have ‘a lot of memories.’ ‘It was good while it lasted,’ said Debi Dillon. ‘Someone will enjoy it,’ said her husband. ‘Won’t be us.’”
From WPTV. “Dozens of people packed into Stuart City Hall today, hoping to get some advice that will spare their homes from foreclosure. Dorran Russell, a Ft. Pierce resident, says he came out of ‘desperation.’ He says following hurricane damage in 2004, his home insurance premiums rose from $900 to $7000 a year. He says his mortgage lender requires the insurance, and he began to fall behind on payments. ‘Finally, I failed to keep up with what they were demanding,’ said Russell.”
‘He says his lender refused to renegotiate the terms of his mortgage, even though he and his wife are employed and are willing to make good on their debts. The lender foreclosed on his home. ‘I want my home back. I just want my home back,’ he said”
‘The auction won’t bring close to the $94 million…in loans plus interest and fees…It probably would go for about $7 million, Bonkowski said. ‘It has limited value in today’s market,’ Bonkowski said.’
Now that’s a haircut! Oh, the days when trolls would lecture us on how RE always has a certain value, no matter what. Truth be told, somebody would be taking a big risk to pay $7 million for it.
‘The four-county metro area had 7,690 homes with a foreclosure filing, notice of foreclosure sale or repossession by a lender — more than twice as many as in February 2008… Meanwhile, there were 3,309 finished-but-unsold homes in Metro Orlando subdivisions at year’s end, according to Metrostudy’s most recent survey, and many of them are surrounded by houses in some stage of foreclosure.’
What can be said about this except, holy cow!
It has certain value
5063 Nautica Lake Cir Greenacres, FL 33463 $89,700 $389 per month 6 Bed, 4 Bath | 4,109 Sq Ft | MLS ID #R2981962 | Refreshed 4 hours ago
new in 2002 sold for $316,148.00
Jan. 05 sold for $430,000.00
Sep. 05 sold for $550,000.00
I called the realtor and it is for sale for $89,700.00 6 bed 4 bath
CBS tile roof bank owned
That’s exceptional for the zip. Looks good on ggl-erth. Tight lot and no street pics, however.
sorry mrktMaven
PROPERTY TO BE SOLD AT PUBLIC AUCTION EVENT THRUSDAY 4/2/09 (ORLANDO) OR SATURDAY 4/4/09 (MIAMI). LIST PRICE IS THE STARTING BID FOR THIS HOME ONLY, SUBJECT TO A MINIMUM RESERVE PRICE AND SELLER CONFIRMATION. PRE-AUCTION OFFERS MAY BE ACCEPTED BY THE SELLER UNTIL ONE WEEK BEFORE THE EVENT IN WHICH CASE THE HOME WILL BE REMOVED FROM AUCTION. YOU MAY BID AT THE AUCTION, ONLINE, OR VIA ABSENTEE BID FOR PROPERTY. SHOWING OPEN HOUSE & AUCTION INFORMATION CONTACT LISTING BROKER. LARGEST HOME OFFERED IN NAUTICA ISLES! BEAUTIFUL WATER VIEWS. COVERED PATIO, UPGRADED KITCHEN, BALCONY OFF MASTER. I BR 1ST FLOOR, 5 ON 2ND. MASTER BR HAS A SITTING RM 7×11. HOA INCLUDES ALARM & CABLE. 2LG WALK-IN CLOSETS & WASHER, DRYER, RANGE”
It’s a teaser for an auction.
I tried to post details.
Location Address: 5063 NAUTICA LAKE CIR
Reverse Side
Municipality: GREENACRES
Parcel Control Number: 18-42-44-35-12-000-1120
Subdivision: NAUTICA ISLES PL 2
Official Records Book: 22799 Page: 212 Sale Date: Aug-2008
Legal Description: NAUTICA ISLES PL 2 LT 112
Owner InformationName: DEUTSCHE BANK TRUST COMPANY AMERICAS TRU
Mailing Address: 1270 NORTHLAND DR # 200
MENDOTA HEIGHTS MN 55120 1176
Sales Information
Sales Date Book/Page Price Sale Type Owner
Aug-2008 22799/0212 $100 CERT OF TITLE DEUTSCHE BANK TRUST COMPANY AMERICAS TRU
Sep-2005 19262/1969 $550,000 WARRANTY DEED SCHERER DOUGLAS
Jan-2005 18105/0860 $430,000 WARRANTY DEED TIFFANY ROGER B &
I lived in that development a few years back and it’s hard to believe how far properties have fallen in that neighborhood.
Jumping Jehosophat !
Ben,The haircuts/crewcuts are sweeping many areas, the group out of N.J. that bought the Hard Rock theme park in Myrtle Beach S.C. paid $25 million for what the previous group had spent $400 million on. I am very sure they think they got a great deal, however I believe it’s doomed to fail!
The “haircuts” these days are starting to look like the French Revolution!
BTW, some of you guys are using more and more crude language. I’m just not going to put up with it. And this political stuff is getting to be too much to.
Thank you.
Your blog is probably the best in the Internet.
Some of the brightest minds post here (not me.)
This will make it even better.
There are sooooo many places on the internet that one can go for political mudslinging.
As someone who will never be accused of being left of center, I’ve certainly noticed the upswing in right-wing political hack postings the last few weeks. The most prolific left-wing hack left a couple months back, and the overall level of discourse went noticeably up after that, but now it’s sinking back down. I’m glad to see Ben serve notice.
I continue to learn so much here (and benefit economically) from reading the thoughts of some really smart people, most of whom come at this whole mess from much different points of view than mine. It’s because they pick apart things on the merits. Long may it continue, this thing looks as if it’s going to stretch on for quite a while.
Thanks, Ben, and all the rest of you really smart folks.
Ben:
You should be listening to the radio more often. Crude? We are training our teenagers to be the next super hot pole dancers.
Howard Stern crude? Or bubblin’ crude?
I did a bunch of gigs with Howard and Scott the Engineer years ago, cool people.
Now his old station K-rock is now Wussie corporate radio, yes Brittney is on Krock and so is hip hop….they changed call letters and format
There is only ONE hope for terrestrial radio, and that is to hire lots of people like ME. Smart real, excellent music collection and knowledge about music and current issues. In other words a REAL radio DJ is the only salvation for it…..akin to free form radio, where the DJ’s would select music for their shows, not all, but have some input.
OK. From now on I’ll keep my trap shut about you-know-who and the you-know- whats. ( It probably won’t be easy.)
I will also order an HBB T-shirt and make a donation to the best blog on the net! The fact is, that cumulatively and collectively, with so many points of view and practical experiences, there is a wealth of useful info that becomes available here every day. You are to be commended, Ben, for putting together a truly unique forum dedicated to the most important financial event in our lifetimes. Along with our own personal experiences and observations, many of us have developed strong political feelings.
We can keep them to ourselves, stay on topic, and not dilute the value of this board. My apologies for my own bad behavior.
My apologies for my own bad behavior.
And rightly so, you bad man! You made Baby Jeebus cry!
Hahahaha!
Nah, just teasing yer, blue person. Actually, I think this is quite a sedate blog, in terms of actual language and opinions offered. I don’t blog –besides here– but when I do look glancingly at other blogs now and then, HOly COw! People are jerks!
I disapprove.
But, I must say, Ben? Ben, there IS a political component to this whole mess. As I complained about the other day, here where I live, in Thurston County, WA, the builders/developers are for some reason almost without exception registered Republicans. I mean, it’s completely linearly divided. This is just on a small scale, but the proposed solutions to this mess are also politically divided, and supremely messy. So I don’t think politics can be winkled out of discussions, like a snail tidily pulled from a shell, because in THIS case the shell is all mashed up and mingled about with the gooey, oozy, stamped-on, popped snail, so to speak.
But, in any case, I too, shall take pains to be less naughty, and not tease anyone about their religion or politics, no matter how much they deserve it and how funny I think it will be. (Especially religion, because that really seems to set some nutters, oh, wait, I mean, some ‘good folks’ off. This will be a strain for me. But I shall pray earnestly for restraint.)
*prays earnestly for restraint *
There, see?
“I don’t blog –besides here– but when I do look ”
slut
Drats!

I posted a reply to Oly’s post but the PC filter ate it.
Oh!
*outraged gasp *
Why….!
Anyway, Muir, it doesn’t count if I had my eyes shut. Everyone knows that.
0:)
Attempted to place an angel by my name, obviously …that didn’t work Ben
Attempted to place an angel by my name, obviously …that didn’t work Ben
Oh, is that what that was? I just thought maybe you had an upside down head, is all, and were telling us about it in a subtle emoticon-y way. And I shouldn’t wonder even if you had had one, seeing how naughty you are all the time.
*virtuous sniff *
And now where’s MY post?
Your “shape up or ship out” is most welcome. I was getting sick of the constant use of the term The One by certain posters. Kinda shuts down discourse when folks keep spewing out chum. I’ve probably been guilty of it myself on occasion, so I hereby am chastened. OTOT, I’ve been most impressed with the creative prejoratives people have coined, so I will miss that….
Oh brother. Although I agree that the political discourse here at times has devolved into an inane black-and-white civil war, I hardly think calling The One “The One” (not that I ever did that before just now) is that severe. If that’s the worst description people have come up for him, just wait until he really f’s up the country. I was not a big Bush supporter, but it goes without saying that people called him all kinds of names.
“The riskiest market in the country is Miami, which saw a building boom beginning in 2002. Since then, about 38,000 condo units have been built or are under construction in Miami-Dade County, with more than 22,000 of those concentrated in or near Miami, said Jack McCabe, president of McCabe Research & Consulting. ‘It’s not surprising that developers are talking about a death spiral,’ McCabe said. ‘There are so many units that are unsold and they are unable to pay off construction loans.’”
“He estimated that as much as 40 percent of the 16,000 completed units in Miami remain unoccupied.”
___
“40% of 16,000 unoccupied”??!
Who’s he kiddin?
I can see many more than that by looking out my window at night.
Palm Beach Post
“Under the new regulations, Fannie Mae will reject any mortgage for a condo buyer if more than 15 percent of the other owners are delinquent on their association fees. What’s more, Fannie Mae will only guarantee mortgages in new or newly converted condo developments if 70 percent of the units are sold or under contract.
Critics say the rules, which went into effect this month, could force some new developments into bankruptcy because the 70-percent requirement will be hard to reach if buyers can’t get a loan.”
I posted this weeks ago and said this was a big deal.
New building condo prices will be less than $85 psqf.
At that point they will sell.
Florida condos = waterfront, golf course tenements
Big traps for the condo owners in a lot of cases.
Cabrini Green, anyone?
Ooh, ooh, ooh, I love this.
I used to live in Chicago when they dismantled the ol’ Cabrini Green in favor of, you guessed it, condos!!!
LOL
(Oh, and there was a park or some such.)
Imagine an isolated island community of 50 people, where everyone took all their savings and time to build 75 of the shiniest homes imaginable and no one spent any effort or resources searching for food or developing any other skills. This is mania.
Now imagine after everyone started starving, the island’s leadership started borrowing from neighboring islands and spending even more resources trying to complete these homes and not enough on growing food. This is government saving mania.
In the end — no matter how hard everyone tries — exhaustion overwhelms mania.
Easter Islands in the stream.
Nice.
Hi guys..I lurk a lot, don’t post that often…but here I go.I travel to Miami Beach every summer for a month at the beach…august? Miami beach? Yes I’m a little bit crazy but work with me here…3 or 4 years ago when i flew into Miami I was flabbergasted by the sheer numbers of cranes in the sky..when i said out loud “who will buy these condos?” i was met with the standard answer…rich south Americans…WHAT?? A corrupt govt was propped up by a completely corrupt media where developers had all these interests in their pocket, combined with a complete sheeple attitude about buy now or be priced out forever is nothing short of criminal..
Linda,
I live here.
I’ve had to listen to “The British, Venezuelans, Indians (for real) Russians will buy.”
“‘We just bought and sold and bought and sold,’ said Djahanshahi. ‘We kept the money in the company and we invested more and more. Suddenly, everything stopped.’”
Musical chairs. POP goes the weasel!
It never ceases to amaze me the number of people investing in markets they don’t fully understand. If you are going to invest in any market, you need to understand the mechanics of it. You need to go beyond supply and demand. You need to understand the things that influence supply, demand, and price. You also need to understand your role in the market. And above all, know where you are in the cycle.
“‘No place is immune from the downturn in the economy, but certainly the housing boom and bust played themselves out unevenly,’ said Sean Snaith, an economist at the University of Central Florida. ‘Some areas have been crushed by it.’”
Snaith. PLOP goes the souffle!
Oh My!
How in the world can the Snaith-in-the-grass
even dare to stick his head up to utter comments on housing?
No, Sean, the housing bust has NOT “played itself out”! Once again, you manage to bat zero for an entire season.
Interesting situation here in Brevard County Florida. Some of the long time local realtors (bunch of old gals 60+ yo) have been conspiring to keep the bubble afloat by preventing the rental of the high end houses. If you want to rent a mid or low end not a problem but the high end is just not for rent. (1.5-3.5M asking price is high end here). They have been pushing the motto that the elite properties are only for sale. Renting is for the low income people. By keeping a high percent of the listings of waterfront the ruse worked with a few properties keeping high bubble sale prices but the stock crash was the death blow. Houses that have been on the market for years now are desperate for renters or anything. Sure makes me smile.
Meanwhile the above realtors got a column in the Sunday paper instead of being called out. I asked a reporter about it (one of my private customers) who said they were given and unwritten rule not to make issue with the RE market or with the above realtors. Sad
I don’t get it. Like, they made it illegal for people to rent their houses or what? How did they “prevent” the rental of high-end houses?
Easy, convince any seller that the market is “just about to turn”, “renting is a hassle”. “that renter will destroy your house” etc.
If they ( RE drones) can convince a buyer to consider loans at 5x gross with pick a pay or option arm etc why do you think they could not influence a seller? Sheeple want a shepherd. You should know that if you read this blog.
Thanks for the clarification — obviously the realtors™ did a lot of convincing, conniving, cajoling, but I would say that’s a little different than “preventing.”
here is a bit of my personal experience. I asked for a rental contract after being shown a house by a realtor and was never given the lease, I indirectly knew the owner via business and 6 months later called her. The owner never heard about anyone asking to rent and was desperate for a buyer or a renter (for sale for 3 years). Some variation of the above has happened to me personally 3 times in the last year while looking to rent new digs.
Eventually an owner rented to me directly, without realtor.
I would call that “preventing” but revise it however you need to makes you feel better. Just in case you dont understand english well, I included a link to the definition of prevent,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prevent
Let me guess, you are in real estate?
No need to get your panties in a bunch.
From the ABC News excerpt: “Struthers, a real estate agent and mother. . . “.
Doing some simple internet research on a couple of realtors I have it in for, I came across a three-year old article in a local, weekly broadsheet with a spread on some fundraiser fashion show that featured as models– dah-dah-dah– you guessed it, rock star realtors from Atlantic City, NJ area. My blood boiled gazing at the smug looks on their unnaturally tanned faces, though I suppose I got a little satisfaction from seeing the size of some of the women, with flower-print moo-moos draped over them. Boy, do I want to see these realtors crash and burn spectacularly!
The wife has to attend a cocktail party send-off for city’s school superintendent at a hoity-toity place tonight. All the local luminaries will be there to see and be seen, including the Royalty of Real Estate, I’m sure. I joked about crashing the shindig, and she said I could just pay at the door. No way. I don’t trust myself to be around those arrogant clowns. At best, I’d shoot off my mouth and make things awkward for them and me; at worst, I’d punch one of them right in the nose.
Okay. Rant off.
Really, you think people would be wise to the game at this point. But I have to tell you, it seems the public at large is comatose. I was talking to a local shopkeeper a couple of days ago and he said he approves of what the FED is doing and by the end of the year the housing market “should come back”. I just pointed out that nothing’s coming back without good paying jobs, because you can’t buy anything without a job. He allowed as I had a point there and looked sort of bemused.
Liquor + P.O.’d HBB’r + Realtwhores = Virulent Diatribe and Possible Brawl
DebtinNation, You betcha.
I’ve read about investors from Germany going into South Florida (Coral Springs) and buying up property for dimes on the dollar with their inflated euros. Is this true?
Just as true as the Chinese coming into buy up real estate. Just saw an article yesterday saying the Chinese buying real estate was a bust.
Good — they can help pay our inflated taxes and insurance despite the currency risks.
Stupid money knows no borders..
“Nichols said she paid $365,000 for the home in 2004 and invested another $100,000 in upgrades. ‘I couldn’t even find a buyer that would pay $200,000 so I walked from it and we moved back to Colorado,’ she said.”
So it seems Nichols’ $100,000 “investment” in upgrades was no investment at all, just money down the drain.
And, as so often has been commented here, her $100,000 “investment” was probably really a couple hundred in paint, $5,000 worth of landscaping that she overpaid $20,000 for, but with HELOC money, and some Pergo floors.
Ineptly laid Pergo floors. I swear, people can mess up “foolproof” flooring quite easily. (Evil Rob has laid laminate flooring, and he’s the type to do something properly, so he’s been VERY disparaging about the “instant upgrade” floors we’ve been seeing.)
“Money is already tight at The Wilshire Condominium, and new lending rules threaten to make life even more difficult for it and other condos around the country. Arthur Barr, a board member of the Wilshire homeowners association, estimates 30 percent of the owners in the 378-unit building in North Miami Beach are behind on their fees. That makes it difficult to pay for things like elevator repairs and gardening.”
I can only imagine the hatred and discontent that must be festering in these places, as the deadbeat quotient gets higher and higher and those who are paying their fees get squeezed tighter and tighter to make up for the non-payers. For legal reasons Condo management probably can’t start a name-and-shame campaign against the deadbeats, since that would probably invite harrassment, abuse, and vandalism by other residents who are forced to carry the free-loaders. Oh, the joys of communal living.
Most of these purchases only penciled out with a successful flip. Now the small percentage of folks who actually closed are screwed. I would hate to be stuck in one of those less than half filled towers knowing I purchased at the top.
Also, you have to wonder how attractive these empty units will be even at foreclosure prices. How cheap would a unit have to be for someone to willingly sign up for the $350 to $1000+ association fees…50k…less?
About the Wilshire: (capitals by MLS)
“BUILDING IS IN PROCESS OF A FINE-TASTE RENOVATION WITH MARBLE FLOOR LOBBY..” (says the MLS).
‘We kept the money in the company and we invested more and more. Suddenly, everything stopped.’”
Yes, that’s the way it works with “Musical Chairs.”
“‘It’s not uncommon for me to look at a market and see builders trying to sell below replacement cost,’ said housing analyst Anthony Crocco. ‘They have to go below cost, to fight the foreclosure situation.’”
B..b…but the REIC trolls assured us that home prices couldn’t fall lower than replacement costs - that was the market floor, remember? Oh, and by the way, building materials and labor costs are sinking faster than a mob informant in the East River.
You forgot to add with cement block.
That’s kind of implied
Ahhh,
I just needed to state the obvious
All of us do daily.
But with the stock market down and real-estate prices still falling, Mr. Fallon decided to hold off for a bit. ‘I was looking at a substantial amount of our personal wealth disappear as the stock market spiraled down,’ he said. ‘It certainly had a lot of bearing on whether or not I was willing to invest in a second home.’”
Music to my ears. I would love to make public policy in this country. To discourage speculation and remind people that houses were meant to be lived in, I’d slap “investors” whose houses have sat empty for longer than six months, or are eyesores because they don’t keep them up, with penalties ranging from stiff fines to outright confiscation. Of course I’d make an exception for those who do quality renovations of dumps, and are a net benefit to neighborhoods, as opposed to flippers who are just trying to make a quick buck.
‘He says his lender refused to renegotiate the terms of his mortgage, even though he and his wife are employed and are willing to make good on their debts. The lender foreclosed on his home. ‘I want my home back. I just want my home back,’ he said”
Reality check: it was never your home. Until you make the final payment, it belongs to the bank - you just reside there. So don’t boo-hoo when you can’t keep honor your finanicial obligations and the lender is forced to take HIS home back.
I know this is a repeat, but I never got an answer.
Oly girl,
Do you work or have a job? Or are you just a
wood nymph spiriting through the forest with all
the mushrooms, ferns, and little frogs?
Rancher,
That is her job.
For real? Lookit my restraint, everyone; you see it? This’ll be the third time I have answered Mr. Rancher.
I answered last night, (this’d be March 20th, the Vernal Equinox)tersely, and then I apologized for being terse, and I ALSO answered the FIRST time he asked, over a week ago. So now, I shall go find my FIRST answer if I can, using archive search, and I shall post it here.
And after this, Mr. Rancher? You need to go get a hobby. Like knitting, or something. Anyway, why are you so insistent on this? Are you stalking me?
Well, get in line, man.
(PS. The rest of you, if my body gets found in a wetland, with frogs and ferns glued to me, direct the po-leece to Mr. Rancher. He Make a note!)
He Make a note!)
Oooops, I firstly typed: ‘…direct the po-leece to Mr. Rancher. He says he lives in Grant’s Pass, OR. Probably with my fluffy head in the fridge.
Ben! Make a note!)
But I got rattled and joggled it up when I pressed ‘add comment’.
Anyway, back in a tick.
Comment by Rancher
2009-03-08 12:44:31
Oly, do you have a job? Or are you a forest nymph?
Reply to this comment
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-08 13:56:44
I do have a job. And, delightfully enough, it makes me popular with the forest nymphs. Think of me as a version of the Lorax, except much cuter, wearing sparkles and pink, and high-strung with a potty mouth.
Oh. And another difference is, IIIIII am not going AN.Y.WHERE. Fook that pickin’ myself up by the seat of my pants and floatin’ off through the trees all melancholy-like crap.
*makes very un-pretty snarly face *
And give up now, because I’m not going to tell you my real, actual, salaried, with American money, job description. See, ’cause that way, if you was cunning and evil, you could pretty much find me and put my head in your chilly stainless-steel fridge.
Which I’ve decided should not happen, unless there’s some super good rib-eye steak in there, at least 15 pounds of it, and my fluffy head has to be stuck onto my body at the time, and offering advice, because me and my fluffy head like to hang out and eat steak TOGETHER.
We’re firm on that.
Maybe he’s read your replies but he’s like Drew Barrymore in that his memory resets every day. So each morning he awakens thinking it is the date before the first time he asked you and asks again. He reads your reply during the day and is satisfied and goes to bed a happy camper thrilled with your contribution to the economy. But alas, he awakens the next day having forgotten the previous day and only remembering that he has a desire to ask you this question that’s been bothering him.
It must be something like that. I mean it’s not like he would post a question and never go back to read the answers is it?
BTW you never replied to MY question yesterday. Enquiring minds want to know.
Bear,
I just don’t spend a lot of time here and
rarely retrace the previous threads.
We do have a lot of rib-eyes in the fridge,
along with a lot of other cuts.
I think a lot of the realtors and brokers really believed that housing would always go up. I personally know one who a cople who went bankrupt because they ought their own prperties since everything was going up. This is after me personally directing them to this site and telling them this bubble is going t bust in 2006. They have 0 dollars. At age 50. One friend is a distressed buyer with OPM and owns multiple properties maybe $20 million worth. He is basicaly not paying the mortgage on any of them and just collecting the rent. Probable wont be foreclosed for a couple of years. Know 2 people who have stopped paying thier mortgage and moved back out of the country and collecting rent for the last years. Can you believe that ? We are all going to pay for this stupid bailout of these peple who cannot accept personal responsibility. Actually these people did not need the money but saw the loophole and are expliting it. Another friend wh is making millions every year bought the house in wifes name wh has no incme and is trying to get a mortgage workout as he owes 2 million on a house that will sell for 1 today. He talk out the 2 millin and started a good business in health care 5 years ago and is making millins. This is hw the system is exploited because f the stupid policies of the goverment
in 06 it was already bust
no foresight required
Django, yes, people really ARE stupid enough to believe dumb, obviously blatantly false nonsensical stuff like how “RE always goes up” or “It’s different here” or “My house is special because of the TLC spent decorating it with kitschy crap off LTD” etc.
Separating these people from their delusions is not our job, but I give you a lot of credit for trying to save your friends from tragic mistakes. Sadly, they ignored you and are now burned as a result.
Separating dolts from their delusions is a job best left to the Sammy Schadenfreude Memorial School of Hard Knocks. Experience keeps a mean school, but fools will learn in no other.
My agent might have a buyer for my condo in the FL Panhandle, thanks to the Democrats’ first-time homebuyer credit. I’ll take any legal exit from that money pit - thank you President Obama. And I’ll NEVER buy a condominium again. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!
ha ha ha Good for you Bob
jeff fallon is my cousin, we discussed his potential purchase some months ago. he is a smart guy and made the correct decision
test