March 23, 2009

Bits Bucket For March 23, 2009

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360 Comments »

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-03-23 07:01:00

Mr. Bear…from your post yesterday: (Thanks for the late hour “ed-U-K-tion posts! ;-)

How ‘Toxic Assets’ Are Like Bad Apples
Analogy of Bad Apple Spoiling Perception of Entire Batch Can Help Explain Problem:

“…Imagine the bank as a fruit stand. It sells oranges, pineapples, grapes and apples — but there’s a problem with the apples.”

“They look beautiful and delicious on the outside but inside there are these horrible worms,” Adam Davidson, a New York correspondent for National Public Radio, told ABC News. “They’re rotten. They’re disgusting. Suddenly you say whoa! I don’t wanna eat apples!”

Wal-Fart solution: Sell them to China, smash them into apple-sauce, add melamine…ship them back to American for our children’s school lunch items! Globalization = ROI ;-)

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-03-23 07:06:32

Why would anyone buy these non-performing assets when there are so many attached risks like falling prices, foreclosure costs, and so on? It’s nice to see them market these instruments to pension funds and the broader public, however. (sarcasm added)

Comment by denquiry
2009-03-23 10:08:16

betcha CALPERS and Harvard endowment springs for em. buy this junk and we will give you a kickback….uhhhh…but you gotta keep your mouth shut.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-23 07:01:20

Me first!

Stocks up on new Geithner plan. What is the plan?

Comment by Tim
2009-03-23 07:12:07

If you agree to buy some interests in mortgages that have dropped in value and the banks can’t get rid of, the government will give you a low interest rate loan to do so and provide a limited guarantee on your investment. Interested?

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-23 07:15:57

Yeah. I don’t get why stocks are up so much on this news. I figured the Yahoo summary I read was just missing something…especially considering they only account for 96% of the total:

In one example used in the fact sheet, the purchase of a batch of bad mortgage loans would see the private investor put up 6 percent of the cost with the rest provided by the government, with the FDIC covering 84 percent of the cost with a loan and the remaining 6 percent coming from funds from the $700 billion bailout program.

Does this imply a 4% haircut before the deal I guess? I think it just implies crappy reporting.

Comment by Michael Viking
2009-03-23 07:38:07

Yeah, what happened to buy the rumor and sell the news?

Never believed in that theory, seems more likely that people just tend to only remember the hits and not the misses, just like in psychic readings.

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Comment by james
2009-03-23 08:55:11

I think this goes along well with shooting the survivors. Sounds like the FDIC, already short on cash, is going to bear a lot of the pain by picking up trash assets at par.

So, there goes the FDIC insurance fund. Of course we will just print more money to pay for that too.

Hyperinflationary default or default on the debt.

We will be out of debt in four years. The plan is working.

I’m wondering when we were insolvent. Maybe it was 5T dollars ago.

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Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 09:40:21

I KNOW about as much as any one of our leaders in the Government looking into this Wall Street Financial Fiasco !

“blank stares”…going both ways :)

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-23 11:27:27

“Yeah. I don’t get why stocks are up so much on this news.”

The market rockets up on any news that could be construed as positive. Lots of TARP cash playing around, trying to lure in the suckers.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 07:16:54

I would be lots more interested if someone would make me a zero percent interest loan that I could use as seed money.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-23 07:27:52

OR Zero percent on my Credit cards for 3 years …let alone pay down my debt by $1000 per card.

Hey Timmy boi…..Its about the velocity of money and i aint spending much these days

This will end badly because banks will have billions and billions to lend at 700 fico , but all their customers will have 600.

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Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 10:58:13

Hey Timmaaaaayyyyyy….

 
Comment by Seattle Renter
2009-03-23 14:07:23

No, it’s: LivinalieLivinalie… Timmmmaaaaahh

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-03-23 08:19:36

zero percent interest loan ??

Not sure how the mechanics would work but IMO, if you offered 3%/10 year fixed rate money “Only” on resale product (The Hell with the New Home Builders) the large overhang of inventory would evaporate thereby strengthening the entire economy..Personally, if 3% money was available I would be purchasing some houses….

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-23 09:46:46

Even when your job disappears, as many will in the coming age of Universal Welfare?

 
Comment by scdave
2009-03-23 10:46:41

Even when your job disappears, as many will in the coming age of Universal Welfare ??

Well “No” assuming you can’t afford the risk…But, assuming you can, and given the prospects of high inflation and much higher interest rates, I think 3%/10 year money with some of the discounts we see would be a reasonable risk/reward bet…

 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 11:02:57

1500+ foreclosed Southern California homes to be sold at huge seven-day auction by REDC/USHomeAuction.com beginning March 28
is the schedule of the auctions:

March 28, Los Angeles, Los Angeles Convention Center. Auction begins at 9:30 a.m. Registration is at 8 a.m. (Simulcast in Palmdale at The Oasis Banquet Hall).

March 29, San Bernardino, San Bernardino County Fairgrounds. Auction begins at 9:30 a.m. Registration is at 8 a.m.

March 30, Palm Springs, Palm Springs Convention Center. Auction begins at 6:30 p.m. Registration is at 5 p.m.

April 1, Bakersfield, Rabobank Arena Theatre & Convention Center. Auction begins at 6:30 p.m. Registration is at 5 p.m.

April 2, San Diego, San Diego Convention Center. Auction begins at 6:30 p.m. Registration is at 5 p.m.

April 4, Pomona, Fairplex Pomona. Auction begins at 9:30 a.m. Registration is at 8 a.m.

April 5, Orange County, Anaheim Convention Center. Auction begins at 9:30 a.m. Registration begins at 8 a.m.

Throughout the nation, consumers are snapping up foreclosed homes at REDC auctions at astoundingly low prices, buying properties for 50-60 percent less than the previous high value.

“There is a fantastic selection of homes in this auction that must be sold,” said Jeffrey Frieden, CEO of REDC. “The lenders and banks are very motivated to sell these properties to home buyers and investors, so expect rock-bottom auction prices.”

Notice the “snapping them up”, “motivated”, “rock-bottom auction prices” and Consumers are beginning to understand how beneficial our home auctions are,”

Frieden said. “People are walking away with spectacular deals. Today’s low interest rates - the lowest in 30+ years - combined with low home prices have created a ‘perfect storm’ for home buyers.

http://real-estate.highdesert.com/news/auction_79___article.html/march_homes.html

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-23 17:00:17

3% is one damn good deal… but a person without a job can’t even afford a free house.

No job = no money to spend
No money to spend = no growth
No growth = no jobs

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-23 08:35:43

Zero percent interest loan to you would have still outperformed the stock market over the past year.

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Comment by rainmayun
2009-03-23 10:20:45

I’d have gotten the same return for less risk by stuffing the dough under my mattress.

 
 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-23 09:42:32

The plan is to dangle shiny objects (”hope and change” and a new Bailout each week) in front of the idiot masses while taking their wallets while they are not looking. Inflation, corruption, etc - it’s all about the loot!

 
 
Comment by denquiry
2009-03-23 10:09:33

trade taxpayer cash for t….. (rhymes with birds.)

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 10:52:14

Hwy50ina49Dodge beat you by 20 seconds BILA. Missed by thaaaaaaat much :)

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-03-23 07:04:07

Filed under: “Take it or leave it!”…or…”It’s all Timmy’s fault!” 

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

For your “bonus” credit…guess who is on board at OneWest in Pasadena? Rhymes with… “poor-us”

FDIC sells most assets of failed IndyMac March 19th, 2009

“As of January 31, 2009, IndyMac Federal had total assets of $23.5 billion and total deposits of $6.4 billion. OneWest has agreed to purchase all deposits and approximately $20.7 billion in assets at a discount of $4.7 billion. The FDIC will retain the remaining assets for later disposition.

FDIC and OneWest have entered into a loss share transaction on the single family residential portfolio. Under terms of the loss share agreement, OneWest will continue the FDIC’s existing loan modification program.

One posted comment on the article:

“I can only look back and laugh at the no rehire policy IMB introduced to discourage employees from leaving the company shortly before FDIC took over.”

But vaaaiiit…there’s more (Cheney-Shrub Financial Legacy Effect ;-) ):

“…Quittel also questions how the FDIC decided on a 50 percent settlement for uninsured deposits. Barr previously did an interview with Bankrate.com in which he said:

“The 50 cents was based on a very conservative estimate of what we feel we can get for the assets. But it’s way too early to determine how much more, if any, they’ll get above the 50 cents.”
And, in an e-mail to me, he wrote:

“In the rare instances that we provide such a payment, it is typically 50%. We try and not provide too much in the event we suffer greater losses. We don’t want to have to ask for money back. Remember, this is an advance payment provided before the receivership has gotten a single dollar to payout.”

Quittel’s most troubling complaint, however, is that federal regulators bungled, …perhaps criminally, …the handling of IndyMac. However, such issues have more to do with the Office of Thrift Supervision than with the FDIC.

In February, the Treasury Department’s Inspector General released a report critical of OTS, saying it allowed IndyMac to engage in reckless lending. The Inspector General said OTS “allowed IndyMac to record an $18 million capital infusion from the holding company, received in May 2008, as though it was available on March 31, 2008. This allowed IndyMac to inappropriately report that it was at the well capitalized level as of March 31.”

To be fair to the FDIC, if the OTS had not allowed the backdating of that capital infusion, IndyMac would have reported inadequate capital for the first quarter of 2008. That would have alerted the FDIC earlier that it needed to act.

posted by Mathew Padilla, Reporter The O.C. Register

Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 10:20:03

Our well paid gov’t Clowns in Office of Trust Supervison OTS were too busy eating complimentry IndyMac Burgers while watching, amused, dazed and confuzzled as AGI, AGIPF(London) and Cassano DESTROYED the know financial world.

How could the OTS seen this coming ? :)

 
 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 07:04:59

Pending sales up 5.1% in Feb.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 07:42:37

Yeah I just saw that over @ CNN Money…here’s the link:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/23/real_estate/existing_home_sales/index.htm

“The National Association of Realtors said that existing home sales rose last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.72 million million units, up 5.1% from a rate of 4.49 million in January. February sales were down nearly 5% from year ago levels.

Economists surveyed by Briefing.com were expecting existing home sales to decline to 4.45 million.”

I suppose this could be seen as a good sign - maybe an indication of capitulation? But what really surprises me here is that some people are still apparently waiting at the sidelines to buy houses as “investments”. People still seem to think that these houses are “priced just right for the investor”, etc. I’d be curious to see how sales break down by region.

Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 08:49:29

This and the hige jump in new building last month and I’s say yeah were near or at a bottom.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-03-23 09:16:52

What’s this “we” business? WE, are only off 15% here in Portland.

15% off after doubling in 8 years marks the bottom?

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Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 10:43:11

Ok don’t chew my head off. I’m saying nationally it seems like at least if not the bottom, pretty close to it. For all I know Portland has 50% to go to the bottom. You know better than I.

As far as affordability goes, the median price in Fen was $166K. Median income is $50K give or take. That’s right abound the 3X median formula. And I would guess that cities where the bubble burst first will be the first to hit bottom/recover…ie Las Vegas, Phoenix, Miami, SD.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-03-24 12:57:46

The problem in Vegas/Phoenix/Miami/SD is supply and specifically condo supply in some of those markets. There are other places where there were fewer condos built, and the housing stock is dwindling quickly.

While Portland may not have hit bottom yet (my understanding is the PNW lags the rest of the real estate market by 12-18 months), other markets have. In terms of nationally, I expect things will slide a bit longer before we hit a national bottom, even though some locales may be bouncing off the bottom by year end.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-23 09:52:04

Nope.

Houses are still unaffordable compared to incomes.

Incomes are still declining.

Still too many idiots “snapping up” houses as investments since, “housing only goes up!”

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Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:01:08

That just grates me like nails on a chalkboard when you say that…”snapping up” houses….

 
 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-03-23 09:52:18

As I read it, it is still DOWN 5% YOY… It only went up 5% from January…
I still think that this has much more to go down, and the alt-a’s still are about to reset, making the sub primers look like a small wave in front of the tsunami… Have fun.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-23 11:33:41

Exactly. Anybody with half a brain knows sales always increase MOM this time of year, and the only apples to apples comparison is YOY, which, as you pointed out, is down. This is NOT good news.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-03-24 13:08:11

Except in January, the numbers were 8.6% below the prior year. Now we are only 5% below the prior year.

Granted, this isn’t a big difference, but things are headed in the right direction. M-o-M increase, and smaller YoY fall.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 10:31:47

…looks deep into the black abyss, checks his gov’t parachute and clutches his promised gov’t issued tax rebate…..and screams “I’M NOT going!” :)

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Comment by pismoclam
2009-03-23 19:08:18

Building in Ca is still off. Too much inventory.

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Comment by are they crazy
2009-03-23 10:40:08

Was stuck on a flight yesterday with a former PhD realtor and a retired old time real estate investor. Dr. 2nd career bubble realtor is holding a condo south strip vegas and insists he’d never give it up. I asked what it would cost him the next 5 years even if it goes up. The other nutball said market would be back up in a couple of years - real estate runs in cycles. I gently made my case and they both said they were glad I rented. Wasn’t sure if that was meant to be an insult. I wonder if a year from now they will remember the conversation.

Comment by neuromance
2009-03-23 18:47:00

Talking about real estate to people who drank the kool-aid is like discussing religion or politics. I avoid bringing up the subject until I can ascertain where they stand.

They don’t need me to teach them. Reality will do a fine enough job of that.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-23 17:03:54

This is a sign of nothing but the usual spring market.

The housing RE market is spring to fall.

 
 
Comment by hd74man
2009-03-23 07:54:28

RE:

David Stevens, RealaTurd of Long & Foster Associates appointed head of FHA!

hehehe…THE FIX IS IN!

Talk about a set-up for massive fraud!

Nationalized FNMA and FRD, plus FHA, and VA will now be buying all the future toxic swill hawked by the legions of real estate sales imbiciles and scam based origination gangsters.

Meanwhile, Obama “punch-drunk”.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20339.html

Comment by Leighsong
2009-03-23 08:42:36

Dang - that’s down right embarassing.

Leigh

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-03-23 18:53:07

Wow. Stevens is president and chief operating officer of Long and Foster, according to Marketwatch.

Talk about an insider shoveling money to his friends.

This guy sounds like a classical fifth column, with even less compunction than usual about shovelling tax money to his colleagues in the real estate business.

From the article:

The FHA insures mortgage lenders against home-mortgage defaults and provides loans to homebuyers who can’t afford substantial down payments. In the current housing climate, private mortgage insurers have raised prices and refused to cover riskier deals, The Wall Street Journal reported. Thus the FHA is taking on more risk within the mortgage market, the Journal reported. Stevens is president and chief operating officer of Long & Foster Cos., the Chantilly, Va., real-estate brokerage. He is also a former executive vice president for Wells Fargo & Co.’s

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-03-23 08:25:32

Pending sales up 5.1% ??

If someone can find the link, check the article in the Friday wall street journal on “Mountain House” Ca. (ground zero for owners under water)…due to the compelling pricing, some sales are getting 10+ offers… Pricing works…

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-23 09:28:09

Comment by Manny

‘This and the hige jump in new building last month and I’s say yeah were near or at a bottom.’

Here are some more gems from this poster in moderation:

‘…i think buying is starting to look good again…the govt will do all it can to re inflate the bubble and fighting the govt is a losing bet…’

‘I guess things are different in California that everywhere else retail wise’

‘Saturday afternoon I went to a mall to buy some Easter presents for nephews. I was in disbelief how crowded the mall was. And no they weren’t just lookey-loos. Lots of people with bags, multiple bags walking around. Took me about 20 minutes to leave the parking lot and get on the freeway. It was like the day after Thanksgiving or something. This was in suburban NW Atlanta.’

‘Then Saturday night I took the wife out to dinner at a fairly upscale - and overpriced - restaurant in the city. We had reservations at 7:15. Got there and the restaurant was full. Left at about 8:45 and it was as full as when we got there with a 15 minute wait at the valet due to the volume they were experiencing.’

‘I was as bearish as anyone else on the economy up until recently. But seeing this kind of activity, along with housing starts/pending sales, I can’t help but think things are not as bad as I’ve been let to believe.’

Folks, we have ourselves a troll.

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 10:19:39

Goodie, goodie…

Here, I’ll add my own story:

Went to a well-established restaurant with good food & drink without making reservations, had to wait 45 minutes with the rest of the walkups. I guess GNV isn’t so screwed after all … Oh wait, the next day at knitting circle a UF employee was going on and on about the layoff bloodbath coming to her dept. She emphasized that the % cuts are worse than they seem because they can’t ax anyone with tenure. (Admin has tried already once, and ended up in arbitration–and it looks like the lady is getting her job back.)

So get real, good businesses with good product are getting sales, idiot brigade is going in the toilet. Profitability in restaurants is probably up a bit vs. last year as customers accepted price increases while ramp up of input costs has halted. Also, the competition that launched themselves to some rarified height by leveraging to the hilt is finding out just *how* much AmEx *really* loves small business … hahahahaha. Never could stand those posers anyway. PWND!

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Comment by james
2009-03-23 10:20:55

Are the trolls on the endangered species list?

Or can I use my frog hunting equipment?

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Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 11:05:30

gig um James

 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-03-23 11:22:46

No EPA “taking” permit needed in HBB exclusion zone.

 
 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 10:21:57

I have a really bad memory, but even I was sitting there at that comment thinking he had posted pollyanna thoughts before. (And not the good pollyanna thoughts that I have that things will get better eventually. No, the pollyanna thoughts that all is peaches right now.)

But oh it would be fun to have a troll again! Please stick around Manny. And be sure to keep us informed of any houses you buy and your other investment successes. (That’s not as snarky as it sounds as I am aware that the majority rule, even on this blog could be wrong and if (big if) you are right you deserve the right to gloat.)

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Comment by Big V
2009-03-23 12:58:14

I think I might remember a guy named Manny from before.

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 10:52:10

“Folks, we have ourselves a troll.”

Yep, and he’s trying to wash over my comment the other day about the lookey-loo’s in the malls.

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 10:57:16

Yayyyy!!!!!!!!!

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 10:59:12

[sobs]
It’s been sooooo long.
I’d almost forgotten [wipes away tears]

[Puts manly face on, because I'm not Oly and it's unbecoming for a manly man like me]

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 11:38:22

On the contrary, Muir, I’ve always thought that it takes a REAL man to be comfortable with crying like a little French girl.

Wussy.
Hahahahahah!

(Now, I’m teasing you, you know. I wouldn’t tease you if I didn’t think you could handle it. :) )

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2009-03-23 12:02:48

Like Jack Handey says: It takes a big man to cry…and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.

 
 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:04:11

We also have a Dead Cat Bounce. After the cat is finished its bounce, it’s still dead, unfortunately.

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Comment by REhobbyist
2009-03-23 18:37:42

I couldn’t agree more. Here’s my latest story: my patient who I have taken care of since she was in college told me that she and her partner are in trouble on their 30-year, fixed rate mortgage because she has been furloughed (California state worker) and her partner lost her job. They now have “negative equity.” I brought up the idea of them walking and they recoiled and said that they are too principled to do that. I told them to rethink that idea. The rising unemployment rate will be the last pin to pop the housing bubble. Manny, despite your claims about Atlanta, things are not going to improve for a long time.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 11:34:08

HoorayYYYYY! Now we can flay the troll, instead of turning on each other like rabid weasels!

Not that that isn’t a lot of fun, too. :)

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Comment by NiNM
2009-03-23 12:02:50

Trolling seems sort of pointless. Sure it’s just not Professor Bear in disguise again? He used to do that when bored, though I think he turned into Jen Bones when he had too many margaritas. Sort of Olympiagal light.

What is funny is that our last landlord kicked us out so he could remodel the place and sell it. He put it on the market, not a nibble for months. So he thought he’d lower the price way below the comps — far below per sq ft what other places have gotten lately — trying to generate a bidding war. Only one buyer bid and the sale fell through. LOL. Too bad he got rid of us nice tenants who used to keep up the yard, now it is full of weeds, dead leaves, flyers, old papers.

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Comment by exeter
2009-03-23 12:16:12

BJ… where does his IP hail from….. lemme guess…. Florida?

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-23 19:38:17

Maybe things are peachy in Atlanta. They certainly are depressed in California, Nevada, and Arizona. Over 10% unemployment in these 3 states.

My sister is interviewing on the east coast. She’s from the SF Bay area. She remarked to me that there are more jobs in her field on the East Coast than out west. I also know out west there is no overtime in my field. But there is a lot of overtime on the east coast. Also people in Pennsylvania told me that real estate hardly dropped in value because they had no bubble in the first place.

Maybe from my perspective things look very gloomy. From Manny’s they look great. The reality is more into the gloomy side I think.

The S&P 500 is 21% up from its lowest point of this year. I’m not about to call a bull market yet. The VFINX fund has to first burst above $100. It’s only $76 right now.

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-03-23 07:07:33

“The O.C.” ;-)

“…What advice would you offer to Westar and Mercantile West merchants?” ;-)

Hwy’s suggestion: Convert your Chihuahua fashion clothing / pet scrapbooking store into a .79 cent only store? ;-)

Friday, March 20, 2009
By RASHI KESARWANI The Orange County Register

No rent break for Ladera Ranch merchants:

“There’s no free lunch,” said Claire Shepard, secretary for the Mercantile West Merchants Association and co-owner of Infusion Restaurant. According to Shepard, Westar made clear in the meeting that those who received a rent reduction now would have to make up the difference later.

“…Ladera residents have rallied around local business owners in recent weeks after word of their troubles spread. Just last weekend, a fundraiser took place to benefit Joshua Vecchione, owner of Toy Town. So far, Westar has sent warning notices to four businesses in the Mercantile West Center and two businesses in the Mercantile East Center, according to Mercantile West leaders.

“It’s not about making Westar out to be the heartless management company,” said Svoboda :-)

Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 08:03:24

Westar made clear in the meeting that those who received a rent reduction now would have to make up the difference later.

ROTFL

How? If Westar does not reduce rent, its a vacant store front. If Weststar raises the rent to ‘make up,’ its a vacant store front. Sorry, but that REIT is going to lose money. Cest la vie.

There are estimations that California has twice the retail space out there that it can support in a recession. I see more malls under construction… STILL! e.g., ‘Fox Hills’ I’m not aware of one mall with > 10 stores that doesn’t have at least one vacancy. Its inconceivable that the space will be filled at the previous rent.

Oh, loved Thornberg’s quotes yesterday. Man is the press trying to smear him. For what? Being right? There is no recovery in six months. We might see a bottom in twelve (might not…).

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:51:17

Yeah even at the height of the boom there was so much available retail space in northern MA that development companies were scrambling to find tenants.

Now? The excess space available must be astonishing.

 
Comment by james
2009-03-23 09:02:34

At the rate we are going, recovery will be several years off.

Geitner/Obama are providing the rich elietes more play money which will probably go into futures, stock markets, commodities and debt assets.

So, they will siphon off more money while manipulating prices upwards. Middle class will be crushed under rising prices and falling employment/wages.

Just more economic distortion going through.

My earliest thought on this was 2011-2012 will be a bottom and scrape along it for near a decade.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-23 09:56:10

That sounds about right, along with the important understanding that living standards will be adjusting PERMANENTLY downwards. Too much debt, too few jobs, and too many people in power like to keep things this way.

If they succeed, housing will never again be affordable - you’ll have to get wrapped up in some government “homebuyer assistance” scam (with rules that change every year) to afford to buy a place at a price that is grossly inflated just to keep the crooked banks appearing “solvent” and the bonuses rolling in.

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Comment by james
2009-03-23 10:34:09

I disagree on living standards going down at all. Totally.

We were able to build large amounts of housing. Big houses and plenty of them. In fact a surplus.

We are still able to grow lots and lots of food. In fact, we are always struggling with over production.

We were able to build huge amounts of cars. Many made in good ole USA. Plenty. Too many in fact.

Energy, we got lots of it. Coal, nukes exc. Notice the lights flicker all the time? No? Fine. Also not a problem.

So, this crisis is entirely about monatary effects and pricing effects. Nothing more.

There are some things to worry about with oil consumption however, I don’t consider us driving smaller fuel efficient cars to be a major downgrade in quality of life. You go from driving a Expedition to driving an Prius and you cut your oil consumption by what? 75%. Poof, you can almost go to domestic supplies with that. Plus we are developing better medical treatments, better electronics and better communications.

Hey, and if China doesn’t want to do business with us any more. Fine. People would love the jobs building fun toys here.

I think recovery in jobs will be put off by malinvestment.

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-03-23 13:05:15

Make up the difference between what? What they paid vs. what they should have paid? Sounds like a negative number to me. I’ve never heard such an asinine statement.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-23 09:55:27

““There’s no free lunch,” said Claire Shepard, secretary for the Mercantile West Merchants Association and co-owner of Infusion Restaurant. According to Shepard, Westar made clear in the meeting that those who received a rent reduction now would have to make up the difference later.

teh stoopid, it burns….
What makes Westar think that tenanants who are unwilling or unable to pay above market rate rents now will be willing and able to “make it up” in the future. Because make no mistake, if Westar could charge NEW tenants what they’re trying to charge OLD tenants, these guys would ready to kick out the old ones at the first signs of arrearage.

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:06:14

We’ll give you a smaller Joshua Tree treatment now, Joshua, in exchange for the Larger JT Treatment later!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 07:07:58

Feds unveil plan to sop up bad bank assets.
Administration rolling out plan to buy up to $1 trillion in toxic assets, free up credit…
Monday March 23, 2009, 9:30 am EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration, striving to ease lending in the struggling economy, moved Monday with private investors to sop up bad bank assets. The administration said the program could grow to $1 trillion in purchases eventually, if it proves successful in attacking the bad-books problem that has been at the heart of the banking crisis.
In this March 16, 2009 file photo, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, left, looks at President Obama as they meet with small business owners and community lenders at the White House in Washington.
In a lengthy fact sheet, the administration said it plans to use $75 billion to $100 billion from the government’s existing $700 billion bailout program for this purpose, and it predicted participation from a broad array of investors ranging from pension funds and insurance companies to hedge funds.

To achieve the goal of freeing up more lending, the program would entice private investors with low-cost loans provided by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation and the Federal Reserve. The government would also shoulder the vast bulk of the risk.

In one example used in the fact sheet, the purchase of a batch of bad mortgage loans would see the private investor put up 6 percent of the cost with the rest provided by the government, with the FDIC covering 84 percent of the cost with a loan and the remaining 6 percent coming from funds from the $700 billion bailout program.

Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 07:36:25

Just a couple quick questions off the top of my head:

1) who defines the “cost”??

2) the investor puts up 6% for what percentage of profit (if any)??

3) if the bad assets are purchased below what they’re held at on the bank balance sheets, don’t the banks have to write off the difference anyways, and isn’t that what they’ve been trying to avoid??

4)if the guvmint is already planning on being in for at least 90%, why not just do it themselves and forget the hassle of involving someone else?? Wasn’t that the original TARP plan anyways??

I’m sure there’ll be more.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-03-23 10:33:47

in regard to item #4. Right. If the gov can just print unlimited money (which they so triumphantly last week) why on earth dont they just buy all of the ‘toxic debt’ themselves? Its like they think if they can implicate the big banks and pimpco then there will be some kind of credibility in the pricing of the assets and we the people will be less likely to call bs on the whole sham???

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 10:50:27

From a nation hunting for housing GF and FB to eat, we have moved on to the Big Game = the wile Private Investors :)

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 07:12:03

From the Wall*Street Journal:

Abu Dhabi Firm Buys 9.1% of Daimler
Parent of Mercedes Secures $2.65 Billion of Private Funds at a Time When Rivals Seek Government Aid

By CHRISTOPH RAUWALD

Daimler AG, the owner of Mercedes-Benz, will cede a 9.1% stake to an Abu Dhabi investment firm in a move that shores up its balance sheet and tamps down fear that activist shareholders could push for a strategic shift.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 07:43:53

Didn’t Daimler previously value its share of Chrysler at $0?

They must have done some real finagling to actually “sell” these shares to someone else…

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 07:47:31

Oh wait I see they “ceded” them…

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-03-23 08:43:53

I cede said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw.

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Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:13:30

I was thinking some about the “big picture” numbers being discussed some the other day, and wanted to bounce if off the crew, along with a question.

Credit Suisse reported that they estimated that there is $14T “on the sidelines” (I think just in the U.S.), supposedly waiting for things to turn around before starting back up. This includes money that’s in treasuries. So by rough numbers I think that about $8T of that is in treasuries, since the U.S. treasury debt is $11T, and of that about $3T is held by international (mainly China and Japan).

So that leaves about $6T of non-treasury money on the sidelines.

To me - can that $8T or so that’s in treasuries really be considered “on the sidelines? Any individual investor certainly can sell their treasuries and get into equities - however this cannot be done in a macro sense (hold that thought*), because each treasury that is sold must be bought by someone else, with money that otherwise could have gone into equities. So the net flow of EquitiesTreasuries would be zero (other sideline cash aside).

We’ve heard a lot of talk about people “getting out of the market” - pulling their money out of the stock market and buying safe treasuries. But in a macro sense how can this be? Every stock that is sold must be bought by someone, at an equal value. Thus in a macro sense there is no such thing as pulling money out of the stock market. Once it’s in, it’s in permanently; with the only exception being share buyback - but even then it requires an equal cash input into the market (essentially) by the company doing the buyback.

So what’s really happening (I think) is actually a transfer of money from other markets - money markets, CDs, etc. into treasuries, and the equities market is more just a medium for some of that transfer.

*Back to the question of sold treasuries - the one exception now is the Fed buying treasuries with printed money, which changes the macro balance to non-zero-sum. Nevertheless the Fed treasury purchases have been small so far.

What I’m getting to is this - I don’t think this money that’s currently in treasuries can be considered “on the sidelines” at all. These treasuries cannot be sold in a macro sense except to the Fed, which (so far) isn’t close to keeping up with the growth of new treasury issuance - now $1.8T this year. So my theory is that far from being on the sidelines - this money is actually locked into the treasury market, with the situation only getting worse due to the now-rapidly-expanding debt. Thus I’m thinking that (inflation aside) there’s a very hard ceiling on the stock market valuation. Even if earnings started to recover (hypothetically, since we all know they won’t anytime soon) - would we really see a significant recovery in the markets? I’m talking long-term, like 10-15 year period. It seems like not.

Thoughts?

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-23 07:19:11

Of the $11T national debt, $5T is held in the social security fund. That leaves $3T for foreigners and $3T for us.

Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:29:32

Doh - I forgot about the SS fund.

Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:32:16

Meant to add then - so that’s even *less* money that’s “on the sidelines”.

That being the case - I just don’t see how the stock market can possibly recover at all without massive Fed-infused inflation, at least 15% or so.

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 07:56:55

“I just don’t see how the stock market can possibly recover at all without massive Fed-infused inflation…”

But why should/would it? Corporate revenues, profits, and stock prices were indirectly inflated due to the fact that so much credit was being used to buy goods. (Fortunately this recession/depression/crash didn’t really feature the leveraged buying of stocks “on margin”, but it certainly has other gaffes of equally disasterous proportions.) All that has happened, really, is that the stock market has contracted to reveal the “real market” that lied beneath all along.

That’s why I disagree so categorically with this push to “get credit flowing again” - what, so we can just repeat the whole disaster one time more? The crux of any major policy at the moment should be to help people and businesses adjust to the newly revealed “real” market, not to attempt to reinflate the “glory days” of the past decade.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 07:59:04

Sorry, in the first paragraph I should have clarified that the “real market” now exists due to the limited availability of credit…

 
 
 
 
Comment by darthrealtor
2009-03-23 07:41:30

With regards to where the market money is….what does it matter?

Stocks go up when interest rates go down. Stocks go down when interest rates go up. With interest rates at all time lows it’s clear where the markets are heading long term. It’s investing 101.

Add to that the fact that a large number of companies are suspending 401k contributions and folks are relying more and more on their 401ks to survive just adds more fuel to downwards market pressure.

I believe we’ll see a ‘euphoria’ pop to 8k and then back down hard again.

Comment by oxide
2009-03-23 08:15:37

I agree. Stock will rally when Obama and Geithner work their magic whatevers. Then a huge drop as the magic whatevers don’t kick in right away and the market gets impatient — hey, they are still on the 3-month mentality.

Then, a few months later, if any of this stumulus TARP actually works, the market will creep up again. Will be interesting to see if this happens before or after the midterm elections.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:32:05

Yep…it’s dead cat bounce #2 (number 1 happened around New Year’s).

Except that with the passing of each dead cat bounce we find the stock market drooping more and more. Kind of like the Great Depression (which had at least a half-dozen bounces before finding rock bottom).

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-23 10:00:32

Well the “Great Deleveraging,” should mute this effect somewhat. The cost of money matters less when you’re using your own money. And while we still have leverage limits with stocks, the bubble led to great levels of leverage in bonds, RE etc.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-03-23 07:52:43

Money flow affects Price: sell = down — buy = up

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 07:15:07

WASHINGTON (AP) — A real estate group says sales of existing homes rose from January to February in an unexpected boost for the slumping U.S. housing market as buyers took advantage of deep discounts on foreclosures.

The National Association of Realtors said Monday that sales of existing homes grew 5.1 percent to an annual rate of 4.72 million last month, from 4.49 million units in January. It was the largest sales jump since July 2003.

Sales had been expected to fall to an annual pace of 4.45 million units, according to Thomson Reuters.

The median sales price plunged to $165,400, down 15.5 percent from $195,800 a year earlier. That was the second-lowest drop on record.

Prices are down about 28 percent from their peak in July 2006.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-23 07:21:08

Sales were up from Jan09 to Feb09? Imagine that. Hmmm…. lets see…. what about Feb08 to Feb09??????

Can anyone on planet earth show a decline in sales for any year between the months of Jan and Feb? Didn’t think so.

NARscum is still lying, twisting, ducking, shuffling, weaving and deceiving.

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-23 07:49:47

What’s worse, is they don’t say if they are using seasonally adjusted numbers, which makes me assume they are not.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:03:28

Yeah when I saw the headline “Home sales *spike* 5%” on CNN Money, I figured the NAR must have had something to do with it. A 5% month-to-month increase hardly constitutes a “spike”.

Unfortunately too many people will be stupid enough to believe it…”Oh look honey, the housing market’s coming back!”

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Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 08:10:58

Do not get me started…

1/2+ of my coworkers believe a rebound is underway.

“We had 55 buyers tour our home (for sale).” Funny thing… none bit until they lowered their price. (Note: not much, this seller wasn’t drinking *that* much Koolaid.)

This really is only catching two buyers that I know of amoung the hundreds of coworkers I interact with.

1. Will first sell their existing home and *then* go house shopping. Hmmm….

2. A recently married (1+ years ago though), pregnant coworker is house shopping. Funny… unable to find a home she likes. Lease renewal coming up and likely.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:27:51

Wow Neil, that’s amazing.

I still don’t understand how the whole “real estate ALWAYS goes up” nonsense managed to become inserted so deeply into the American psyche. It somehow worked its way in right up by apple pie, baseball, and Elvis.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-03-23 09:20:31

People desperately want it to be true, because their retirements depend on it.

 
Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 10:34:50

Colorado,

I think there you have it.

Funny thing is that their are a lot of retirees right now. The smart ones are taking 100%+ profit on their homes and walking. Some ‘won’t give the house away.’

Julius,
It will take another year for ‘real estate ALWAYS goes up’ to die. I still get quoted that at restaurants! They given an example, always of a pre-2001 purchase. I then reply, ‘yea, but what about all those people who bought in 2003 through 2008?’ I then point out how they had to put themselves into debt far deeper than was allowed before 2002 and that we seem to be going back to banking rules that will let families keep their homes once they buy in…

Quite a few ‘ashen faces’ after pointing out the obvious.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:17:00

With any amount of propaganda machines cranking full-tilt, the shoeple will believe anything.

“Snap-Up those houses now ’cause they’re not making any more land ya know…”

 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:59:20

Sales Feb. 08 to Feb. 09 were down 4.6%.

Note January YoY was down 8.6%.

 
Comment by hd74man
2009-03-23 08:37:03

RE: NARscum

NARscum now running FHA!

Would the Madame care for more slum housing guarantees?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 13:23:18

Hey NARscum, got seasonal adjustments?

U.S. existing home sales rose in February
By Lucia Mutikani
March 23, 2009

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Sales of previously owned U.S. homes rose at their fastest pace in nearly six years in February, data showed on Monday, offering some hope to an economy battling a 15-month recession.

The National Association of Realtors (NAR) said sales rebounded 5.1 percent in February to a 4.72 million-unit annual rate, notching their largest gain since July 2003, but about 45 percent of these were foreclosure or short-sale transactions.

This was above market expectations for a drop to a 4.45 million-unit pace after January’s 4.49 million rate. Compared to the same period last year, February sales were down 4.6 percent, the NAR said.

U.S. stocks, already rallying after the U.S. government released details of a plan to clean out toxic assets from banks’ balance sheets, extended gains on the housing data.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-03-24 13:21:28

They do adjust for seasonality.

 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:19:01

The first discussion of the next step towards global socialism - China wants a new reserve currency - asks for global IMF-based currency.

“Mr. Zhou didn’t explicitly mention the role of the U.S. dollar, but said having a national currency act as an international reserve currency may have outlived its usefulness and that a desired goal now should be creating an international reserve currency that is disconnected from individual nations and is able to remain stable in the long run.”

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-23 07:29:16

This is the thing to watch. If the world chooses a different reserve currency the good life is over.

I have thought about it some but have not reached any conclusion on what I think is the probability of this happening in my lifetime.

Its possible a new reserve currency would be a basket with US dollars overweighted, in which case it might not have any effect compared to what is currently the situation.

Very interesting and pretty complicated issue, imo.

Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 07:37:07

There is nothing to replace it with. An attempt to create an international reserve currency that is able remain stable in the long run is impossible. They might as well start building those carburetors that run on water for our cars.

Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 08:06:26

There is nothing to replace it with. An attempt to create an international reserve currency that is able remain stable in the long run is impossible.

Yep. Who would back that currency? Europe? No… they’re trying to keep the Euro together. The US? Nyet. Japan? Certainly not in this market. Africa? lol, who would trust it (same goes for China and Russia)?

If China doesn’t want to buy dollars, they’ll just have to shop less crap to the US. Oh… that’s already happening. :) Ghad, as painful as this will be, at least we’ll get the deficit under control. Oh wait… there is that pesky oil…

Got Popcorn?
Neil

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Comment by scdave
2009-03-23 08:46:37

good life is over ??

For whom ??…If we go down, the ability of our military to protect some allies goes down also…Saudi’s, Japan, South Korea come to mind…

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-23 07:32:34

What if this global currency is gold? Woud that be global socialism?

Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 07:40:42

I think the key is that they want a global currency disconnected from countries. South Africa still accounts for 2/3 of the worlds gold production. Russia is a far far distant #2 IIRC.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-23 08:01:15

You can bet your bottom buck any global reserve currency will be fiat.

And you can bet your bottom buck (yes - irony) that it will eventually fail, just like all others.

 
Comment by james
2009-03-23 10:38:18

Good for the USA. We have a big honking mountain of the yellow stuff.

 
 
Comment by adopt-a-landlord
2009-03-23 07:49:35

“…a desired goal now should be creating an international reserve currency that is disconnected from individual nations and is able to remain stable in the long run.”

Wow, sounds like gold and silver!

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-03-23 08:10:07

The current cycle will enhance the power of governments the world over. This is totally counter to establishment of a PM based currency.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-23 08:50:22

The current cycle is an *attempt* to enhance the power of governments the world over. We shall see how well they can maintain their power when their actions lead to wide spread poverty across the globe and the reduction the the US to third world levels.

Once the riots and revolts start… then the power of the government is greatly reduced.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-23 09:59:09

There was no revolt during the GD, our best and most recent reference period; and I think people are far more like sheeple today than they were then.

In other words, odds of revolt are vanishingly low IMHO.

 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-03-23 11:00:25

Agree that revolt is unlikely. If you look at standard of living today for middle income and even lower income compared with early 1900s, people live far better today. If they didn’t riot in 1929, why would they riot now?

 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-03-23 11:00:36

There was no revolt HERE. Europe led the way with a swing to hardline fascist type governments largely supported by their constituents. Latam also saw a rise of dictators, and social unrest. Some countries like Argentina had so many governments that they lost track, at least until Peron came to power… And we all know how well THAT experiment ended!
The end result of the first GD was ww2. I hope that we can avoid the same result this time, as Einstein famously said that he did not know how WW3 was going to be fought, but WW4 would be fought with sticks and stones.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 11:36:19

Don’t forget the Bonus march on Washington…that had to be put down by the Army.

 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-03-23 11:37:39

Good perspective.

 
Comment by bluto
2009-03-23 13:51:12

America’s position in the global order is quite a bit more similar to Europe’s position during the great depression.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-23 17:35:25

Good eye Skip.

Yes, the Bonus Army (marchers, etc.) scared the hell out of DC.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 07:19:38

The Treasury Secretary says irresponsible risk taking and too much borrowing got the nation into its present crisis. He wants to cure it by removing “toxic assets” from the banking system so lenders will pump money into the economy more generously. Presumably, businesses and individuals will get back to borrowing and spending and the good times will roll once more.

Says Geithner,”The depth of public anger and the gravity of this crisis require that every policy we take be held to the most serious test: whether it gets our financial system back to the business of providing credit to working families and viable businesses, and helps prevent future crises.”

Not a word from Geithner nor any of the mainstream money experts about the root cause of our distress - - a dollar that can’t be trusted to hold its value. How can any nation survive under the handicap of dishonest currency? (Note: No nation ever has.)

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-23 07:27:47

“…gets our financial system back to the business of providing credit to working families and viable businesses…”

There’s two words in this passage that show TTT is making a mighty big ASSumption. What are they? Here’s a hint: Was the Pirate store a “viable” business?

Comment by In Colorado
2009-03-23 09:32:07

While I have seen plenty of candle stores, I have never seen a Pirate store other than the one in Disneyland. Do these really exist or is it just an urban myth?

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 10:26:51

FloridUH is lousy with ‘em.

Hell, I had to endure a radio ad last year from some local business in which the conceit was the man and wife discussing their bills is a pirate and his “wench”. Groan…

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-23 10:28:47

The pirate store story was posted right here on the HBB a few months ago. It was a big yuck, yuck.

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 10:42:18

I went to a pirate store in Seattle (along the water front below Pike Place Market) in January of ‘08 so they do exist. I remember at the time wondering how on earth this business could stay afloat since how many pirate themed birthday parties could there be? Looks like it’s still there (piratesplunder dot com) but for how long?

 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 11:14:24

Looks like it’s still there (piratesplunder dot com) but for how long?

Sheesh…I’m really amazed that the Wall Street boyz or the “k” St gang hasn’t bought out that website for their on-line hiring :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-23 10:01:02

Imagine if the Dutch had tried to resolve the tulip-bulb mania by buying all the bulbs at the highest traded price, to avoid losses to the financial system. Would it have worked?

BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAHHAAAA!

I didn’t think so.

:-)

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 07:22:39

Sweden Says No to Saving Saab

By SARAH LYALL, New York Times
March 22, 2009

TROLLHATTAN, Sweden — Saab Automobile may be just another crisis-ridden car company in an industry full of them. But just as the fortunes of Flint, Mich., are permanently entangled with General Motors, so it is impossible to find anyone in this city in southwest Sweden who is not somehow connected to Saab.

Which makes it all the more wrenching that the Swedish government has responded to Saab’s desperate financial situation by saying, essentially, tough luck. Or, as the enterprise minister, Maud Olofsson, put it recently, “The Swedish state is not prepared to own car factories.”

Such a view might seem jarring, coming as it does from a country with a reputation for a paternalistic view of workers and companies. The “Swedish model” for dealing with a banking crisis — nationalizing the banks, recapitalizing them and selling them — has been much debated lately in the United States, with free-market defenders warning of a slippery slope of Nordic socialism.

But Sweden has a right-leaning government, elected in 2006 after a long period of Social Democratic rule, that prefers market forces to state intervention and ownership. That fact has made the workers of Trollhattan wish the old socialist model were more in evidence.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-23 09:49:53

right leaning ?
Sweden ?
dude

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 10:04:18

Now, if someone could just say no to GM and Chrysler……

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:03:08

Saab IS GM. Hehehe.

Did Canada finally cave to Chrysler?

Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 17:51:33

Not yet that I’m aware of.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-23 07:28:01

AIG, The Fed, Paulson (as Sec of Treasury)-favors to investment bank friends, Goldman Sacs, etc…The good guys(a few congresscriters)and bad guys (most)… this article is worth your time. Names included. This should be required reading, it’s that good.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-23 08:24:48

Yes, Excellent article and it really made my blood boil. Nothing in there that I didn’t already know but it’s a ‘big picture’ lesson that needs to be studied and pounded into the grey matter untill it becomes instinct.

My fear is that this country is too far gone to save. The damage is irreversable and the forces of ‘disaster capitalism’ are fully deployed and poised to turn us into a state of modern feudalism.

As Mr Taibbi points out. This isn’t even about money so much at this point. It’s about power and the lust thereof.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:49:25

I’ve had these feelings for a while. We are deeply lost as a country and I don’t sense that many Americans have the initiative to stand up for what’s right anymore. The Constitution is being trampled daily, governmental powers are expanding at a disturbing rate, and Americans mostly still aren’t paying attention…many are still caught in some kind of greed-oriented daze. Obama kept bringing up the “disappearing middle class” during the election, but I don’t see any real commitment on his part to defend the middle class against its elitist raiders.

This is the end of an era, and everything is going to be changing now at an exponentially faster rate. America’s dominant position in relation to the rest of the world is becoming more illusion than reality. I still don’t think most people grasp how shattering the events of this next decade are likely to be.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 10:06:13

When you have these “feelings”, do you have any data to back it up or should we rely on your infallible divinity?

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Comment by are they crazy
2009-03-23 10:55:40

Good question. While traveling, I took a news time out and found I could focus on simple pleasures - I know it sounds corny, but when I realize that it all goes on whether I pay attention or not, I ponder what is the best use of my time and energy. Some truth to ignorance is bliss. Couldn’t do it full time, but it’s nice to take a break.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:07:35

Well, the reason I asked this question is that the financial history of 19th-century America just shows the identical behavior again and again and again.

I must’ve missed the memo which showed that this time was different except in peoples’ imaginations.

What’s different of course is that they are less naïve than they used to be but it’s much easier to fulminate that everything is going to hell in a handbasket than actually admit that you used to be irrevocably naïve about how the game works, and are just waking up.

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:26:13

Well, the fall of the Anglo-American World Power is the final blow to this system of diminishing world powers since Alexander the Great…

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-23 12:28:53

No one who is willing to maintain an open mind is “irrevocably” naïve. The hard part, for me at least, is not falling into a nihilistic cynicism about it all. I still try to organize, fight the good fight, vote and work to get others to do the same, etc, etc. The problem now though is the irrevocably stupid and there really isn’t anything you can do about that except try to keep them out of harms way. (OK, I expect some flames from that last comment ;)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 13:27:39

OK, I expect some flames from that last comment.

Not from me! ;-)

I recognize this but I also recognize that people are always going to be irrevocably stupid and someone is always gonna spring up to scr*w them with the help of the regulators!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-23 17:55:47

Remember the first lesson they teach you as a lifeguard: don’t let the drowning person take you with them.

 
 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-23 12:01:00

‘The Argument Culture’ by Deborah Tannen and ‘Stiffed’ by Susan Faludi delve into the psycological processes which have degraded our social / cultural interactions and which have led to an increasing sense of alienation, frustration and impotent rage.

As a kid I read everything Upton Sinclair wrote and it gave me a deep appretiation of just how $hitty those in power can be to those at their mercy. I never in my life imagined however that I would see a time where we would return to those depradations.

Do I think there will be a populist uprising in this country? No, probably not. The effort to ‘divide and conquer’ and psycologically infantalize the populous is too far along to really change at this point. This blog is the exception that proves the rule I’m afraid.

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Comment by oxide
2009-03-23 13:25:57

One could argue that the 2008 election was a populist uprising. Why buy a pitchfork when you have broadband?

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-03-23 10:52:50

“…My fear is that this country is too far gone to save.” ;-)

What is the connection between the statement above & your posting name:

Sleepr Cell :-)

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-23 12:02:36

Oh I’m not at the bomb throwing stage just yet but give it time ;)

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Comment by jfp
2009-03-23 09:32:47

The guy who wrote that article also wrote a book called “The Great Derangement,” which was a look into the hardcore left and right of the country. His thesis was that instead of actually dealing with our problems, a large portion of our population seems to be turning to mysticism and conspiracy theories. Can’t say I disagree. The idea that we can become prosperous by further indebtedness is in the same fantasy land that’s inhabited by 9/11 truth nutters.

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 10:42:51

But this has been true a long time. It probably goes back to the 1960’s, when young people posted a rising belief in astrology. (Most Americans born before the baby boom did not believe in astrology, and were generally skeptical in multiple areas–including skepticism of organized religion. And FPSS, there is data on this–psychologists have been doing surveys of belief for a long time. ^_^)

You’ve got intellectuals like Weill who think insights gained through smoking pot are just as valid as the outcomes of double-blind controlled studies, frauds like the 1970’s “plant emotion” study (still cited by many who do not realize that the experiment proved unrepeatable), a backlash against authority that included science (which had previously been granted a godlike authority it never asked for) coupled with a fake legitimacy conferred to all sorts of woo-woo by a well-funded CIA that was determined to “throw everything and see what sticks”.

Recently, the skepticism of young people in such areas as astrology, ufo abduction, and so on in the US has started to rise again. This is a good sign. While the 1960’s had their place in introducing Eastern philosophy into the Western academy, they introduced a lot of idiocy at the same time, and the biggest idiots managed to finagle tenure. Witness the fact that British academics in the humanities generally speak in plain English while the American variety speaks in some sort of prose poem PoMo patois that only the initiated can interpret. (If even then–google “Sokal affair”.)

My own handle on this is the “voodoo” economics of the 1980’s, the persistant belief that one could raise spending and lower taxes simultaneously. Even as a small child I detected a certain logical error in that plan. Rather than pay off our war debts stemming from our disastrous “adventure” of many years in Viet Nam, we stuck cotton in our ears, sang La La La, and ran up ridiculous NEW debts that ensured our gov’t’s inability to function properly in the years to come. Sarah Palin’s final chapter in Wasilla, running up millions in debts in a community that once owed nothing, forcing the municipality to run up taxes simply to pay the debt service, is a terrifying preview of what may be coming to a town near you.

I decided a long time ago that those deluded grown-ups believed in “spend and spend” because it was convenient for them–because if only it *were* true, it would be so good … kind of like believing in an afterlife with plentiful goodies. The desire was so great, the fear as well, it overwhelmed all sense and reason. Only a child, with no financial stake in the game, could see the nakedness.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 12:22:35

Recently, the skepticism of young people in such areas as astrology, ufo abduction, and so on in the US has started to rise again. This is a good sign.

Agreed. (If it’s true. You got studies to show this? )
Anyway. Now, IIIIIII love absurd and gaudy and improbable nonsense more than just about anybody, as perhaps you all may have noticed from my incessant jabbering about Bigfoots and catching leprechauns and chaining them to my wheelbarrow and how Satan stole my gardening gloves* and on and on, but there’s a big difference between an enjoyment of the absurd and actually believing that a buncha far-away balls of flaming gas in outer space have anything to do with whether or not I will have a bad Monday and if I enjoy sorting my sock drawer or not. I mean that’s just crazy.

*He did. Yes, totally, He did! What a jerk. No wonder He got kicked out of Heaven. Why doesn’t He just buy His OWN damn gardening gloves, is what I say. Loser.

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Comment by jfp
2009-03-23 13:39:17

*He did. Yes, totally, He did! What a jerk. No wonder He got kicked out of Heaven. Why doesn’t He just buy His OWN damn gardening gloves, is what I say. Loser.

Before you get too angry, maybe you should check to see if our dark lord who defiles all he touches and must not be named was merely borrowing them. A lot of times these things are all just tragic misunderstandings, you know.

 
Comment by speedingpullet
2009-03-23 16:59:22

Re: The Devil Stole My Gloves…

And you can always ask the Pixies for them back.

Just ask them out loud, ‘please may I have my gloves back?’ - and at some point they’ll turn up in a place you’ve already looked for them countless times.

Just remember to say ‘thank you’ - the Little Folk are sticklers for etiquette ;-)

 
 
Comment by jfp
2009-03-23 13:31:46

I decided a long time ago that those deluded grown-ups believed in “spend and spend” because it was convenient for them–because if only it *were* true, it would be so good … kind of like believing in an afterlife with plentiful goodies. Only a child, with no financial stake in the game, could see the nakedness.

Wow, good points. I honestly have very little understanding of culture before the 80’s (when I was kid), and I frequently have trouble relating to my parent’s generation. I think what you’ve said has given me a little insight into that.

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Comment by packman
2009-03-23 11:37:47

“His thesis was that instead of actually dealing with our problems, a large portion of our population seems to be turning to mysticism and conspiracy theories.”

I don’t think I’d lump “mysticism” and “conspiracy theories” together in the same sentence, being that the article under discussion generally presents a big conspiracy as its primary subject.

Comment by jfp
2009-03-23 13:15:06

True. Although I think I that you can make a distinction between conspiracies that are plausible and those that are not, and it’s “The moon landing was a soundstage!” type that I was refering to. That’s actually another thing that the book touches on, as it sets the exciting fantasy of truthers against the boring ways that we actually get ripped off by real conspiracies in congress.

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Comment by packman
2009-03-23 11:33:53

Great article. My biggest problem with it though is the parts it left out - the involvement of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Barney Frank, Alan Greenspan, and a host of others. They’re not mentioned in there even once.

Surprisingly it also leaves out the important 2004 backroom-deal SEC rule change that removed margin restrictions for the five big investment firms. This made a huge difference in the scale of the bubble.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-23 07:33:02

OK lets send 300 condom jobs to china….(and sell them at Walmart)

http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1100966.html

Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 08:02:59

I would so not trust a “made in China” condom.

Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 08:16:02

lol

Yea… what sort of rash might result.

I’m sorry, ‘Buy American’ here even if its condoms for donation to the 3rd world.

This smacks of a political buy off.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 11:28:30

You could almost expect a slight “pregnant pause” after that comment Kim ;)

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-03-23 08:11:43

Is this policy just going to be rubber stamped?

 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 08:16:29

People who shop at Walmart use condoms??

Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 08:58:52

Depends…..same with toothpaste.

 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-03-23 08:31:11

Talk about putting lead in your pencil…

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:35:45

Question to those who may know - when a brokerage house goes under, how are the portfolios affected? I have a brokerage account with Etrade, who’s looking very tenuous these days. I’m wondering how risky it is. Thanks for any feedback.

(P.S. normally I wouldn’t choose Etrade - my former employer used them for its stock program though, and I’ve since just kept the account as is)

Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 07:58:17

You should be covered by SPIC up to $500K.

If you are really worried, why not open up a new account somewhere else and ACAT its contents over?

 
Comment by bluto
2009-03-23 08:10:19

Broker dealers (typically a wholly owned subsidiary) are subject to very strict regulation in the US. Lehman’s US broker dealer clients had no problems through their bankruptcy (unlike Lehman’s London based broker-dealer clients who generally had similar losses as other unsecured creditors). Some parts of the post-depression era regulatory framework will probably never be removed.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 10:02:17

I was with E-trade. Didn’t like the way the look over a year ago. Moved my stock options some where else.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 10:56:30

Dang, let me try this again after drinking my first cup of coffee.

I was with E-trade. Didn’t like the way they looked over a year ago. Moved my stock options some where else.

 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 11:18:18

Hi.
Where?

Or if you prefer not to answer SFgal, anyone?

(thx for the Q packman, I’d been wondering myself)

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 15:24:30

Vanguard. Trading more expensive but how much do you do anyway? But well run, and to the best of my knowledge, extremely honest and conservative. I’d trust their money markets far more than e-trades. (Which would be my concern as I think your securities would be fine with the insurance on them. Fidelity would be second choice.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 18:12:33

Muir, moved to TD Ameritrade.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-23 10:25:07

We moved our sizable cash account to TDAmeritrade (from ETrade), after doing some research. TDAmeritrade *”claims” to have their cash accounts insured through a London Insurer up to $900,000USD on the broker’s side. However, when I think about the Derivatives Market, I am not sure that’s much security, after all.

*I asked for a copy of the policy, or a description in detail on how it works, and the reply didn’t satisfy me 100%.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-23 07:54:10

Let me reiterate my assertion last week, that we are at the cusp of the housing market’s downturn curve (U-shaped or L-shaped or whatever). Median resale prices were up slightly in February actually, with YoY values down 14.8%.

I think prices will continue down, but I believe the rate of decline is decreasing.

As another piece of anecdotal evidence - see this article about Mountain House, CA. Bidding wars are starting back up in some places. While this is certainly a lot of knife-catching - it’s getting more common now, and is contributing to the curve starting to flatten.

It’ll be interesting to see what the next round of Case/Shiller data shows - I think out this week (for January).

Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 08:19:32

I think prices will continue down, but I believe the rate of decline is decreasing.
Yea… for the ’selling season.’ But then watch what happens October-February. Market sentiment should favor the sellers March through August. September is a bit 50/50… then… wham!

I expect the price drops to mitigate for a few months and then be brutal this coming winter. This year will see the greatest price drops. From then on, they should be small (but not negligible).

I’m watching reserve and income requirements grow for Jumbo loans.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 08:40:17

Yea… for the ’selling season.’ But then watch what happens October-February. Market sentiment should favor the sellers March through August. September is a bit 50/50… then… wham!

With a slightly soft or stagnant market, I think you’re right about the selling season.

This year, however, I’m expecting to see more panic and despair earlier, especially in regions with harsher winters. Sellers will get more desperate sometime in August as the days tick closer and closer to Labor Day — What, your McMansion has been on sale all spring and summer, and still no sale? FBs will be covered in flop sweat at the thought of another long winter hold a depreciating asset.

I predict that early September will bring all sorts of price slashing, concessions, giveaways, and other marketing tactics.

Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 10:37:22

Yep. And as Muir points out below, what happens when the ‘held back’ inventory is released? If its a recovered market, then its time to stop the foreclosure moretoriums. :)

Remember the reset graphs? The 2nd wave just started.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

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Comment by packman
2009-03-23 08:48:58

No - I’m asserting that the rate of decline is falling on a YoY basis - regardless of the selling season.

This winter I”m sure we will still see price drops - but I’ll bet they won’t be as bad as last winter, which was about 25% annual rate nationwide.

We’ll see.

Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-03-23 09:46:59

Where’s PB, when you need him, to extrapolate percentages?

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 08:56:09

packman,

Yet, I still point out the obvious, if the inventory had not been being held back, you’d be right.
But that is not the case, a massive inventory has been being held back.

Actually there are two inventories on hold.

The first are the banks. Banks have been holding back their delinquent mortgages and not foreclosing. In fact, the banks have not even been moving aggressively their REOs.

Then there’s there’s an even bigger inventory. Homeowners who put their sale on hold.

I’m not even going to mention the builders.

I see these things around me.
(Yes, I see dead people)

Comment by exeter
2009-03-23 09:21:55

Packmans assertion is logical but I’m skeptical. The beast will continue to starve and there will be competition among sellers because of it. Given the static but high inventories and the potential for banks to unload their inventories, prices have a real potential to collapse. Note that the Northeast and in particular, NY had a visit with reality only very recently(Jan). Combined with high double digit declines in sales in nearly all counties and prices falling we have a perfect storm.

And the longer sellers hold onto grossly inflated prices, the more spectucular the deflation will be.

 
Comment by Temporal
2009-03-23 09:29:19

So spot on here. I can point to nearly a dozen REO homes/townhouses along my 6 mile commute that have been empty for 3-12 months and can’t be found on the general real estate searches (appears they aren’t in the MLS).

And if that isn’t enough, my little “circle of friends/coworkers” has 6 or so people currently vastly overdue on their mortgages. In any sane market these people would have been out of luck several months back. As it sits one of them is coming up on 11 months payment-free! Not one forclosure filing among them that I know of. In fact, I haven’t even heard any through the grapevine stories of people being evicted or forclosed on. It seems like it just doesn’t happen anymore.

They were saying the other day that there are 75,000 empty REO homes in Maricopa County. I wonder how many more are basically REO but still have their “owner” living there making no payments.

Things might just look up in many places over the next few years, but I have a feeling “it’s different here”, and not in a good way.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 10:06:55

packman,

Is there a reason why you zeroed in on Mt House, CA? Do you know where this community is? There are no jobs in the area. The jobs are a 2 hour drive west. Even at those prices it is still high.

Comment by packman
2009-03-23 11:53:59

Yes I know where it is. The central valley has been probably the single-hardest-hit area in the country bar none (followed closely by the west coast of FL). Mountain House just happened to be the place highlighted in the WSJ article.

In most of the central valley prices are down at least 50%, now to about 2000/2001 levels, in nominal terms. That’s why I think this is occurring - people see prices down so much and - much like the stock market - think that they’re now getting a real deal. Low prices, even just he perception of low prices, create demand. The demand may be artificial (based on speculation and not real housing need) but it is demand nonetheless.

Much like areas like this are where the first cracks in home price gains started in 2005/2006 - they will also be where the cracks in plummeting prices will occur. It is what it is. Note that I’m not trying to excuse it, or say that “housing is a good investment” or anything like that - I’m just giving my observations, both of anecdotes like this and of general human behavior.

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 10:46:01

No Foreclosure Auction Deal For You

Details how banks don’t seem to want to sell their REOs that badly, as they place shills or set reserves to keep wishing price above their total liability… but of course no-one is buying at that price. Ouch!

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 08:02:10

Are these the same as a Gift Certificate or like a mall gift card?
Also, would you have to use dollars to buy these scripts?

`Detroit Cheers’ launched, reviving Depression-era practice of issuing private money

DETROIT (AP) — It’s called Detroit Cheers, and it’s money — just not from the government.

Several Detroit businesses are reviving a Depression-era practice and issuing a form of private money called scrip.

In the 1930s, scrip was a response to the shattered economy and a cash shortage.

Experts say scrip is legal if it doesn’t resemble U.S. currency.

Jerry Belanger owns the Park Bar and Bucharest Grill and helped start Detroit Cheers, which comes in $3 denominations.

Michael Shuman is author of “The Small-Mart Revolution: How Local Businesses Are Beating the Global Competition” and tells The Detroit News about 75 local currency systems have started recently nationwide.

In Traverse City, about 100 locations accept Bay Bucks as currency.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:05:15

What? The D is handing out scrip? Good god…

Comment by Neil
2009-03-23 08:42:13

Yea. Someone should read their history on how little of the script is finally cashed in. It works and then its worthless.

Kind of like gift cards…

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 08:16:25

Yeah, I was gonna post this too. Got a chuckle out of it. Wonder how long the businesses mentioned will stay in business.

Comment by whino
2009-03-23 08:30:42

“Wonder how long the businesses mentioned will stay in business.”

That’s the key to this. But I still wonder how people are buying these “scripts”?

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:35:03

Yeah really, what exactly are these businesses doing?

Are they paying their employees in scrip? If so, that’s just ridiculous. And then why come up with some “Detroit Cheers” nonsense? Why not just hand out gift cards or something?

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Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 08:56:49

“That’s the key to this.”

Yep. Recently 2 upscale/niche stores/restaurants that were originally hailed as steps forward for the city have closed after being in business less than a year. The theory seemed to be that if one comes, others automatically will follow. Didn’t quite work out that way.

I’m no downtown gadabout, but I’ve never heard of either eating place either.

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Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:29:58

That scrip is about as phoney as a $3 bill.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-03-23 08:11:00

What the government is proposing is to privatize the profits and socialize the losses, to avoid nationalizing the banks. Wall Street likes that.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Treasury-details-public-private-plan/story.aspx?guid=%7B741B3DED%2D89BB%2D4F5B%2DB7D6%2DCA100B8409D3%7D

Krugman would prefer nationalization.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/23/opinion/23krugman.html

The fear is that with nationalization what you would end up with is crony capitalism from Congress, and an inability to un-nationalize them once Congress gets used to running the sandbox. The other fear is that Congress is unwilling to pay for the cost of really cleaning things up. So there are Democratic and Republican threats to a nationalization plan.

So who is right?

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-23 08:33:50

which gov agency did krugman send his 1 mill prize to ?
none
he like high taxes like sweden 1980
just not for him

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 11:01:13

Krugman: “The common element to the Paulson and Geithner plans is the insistence that the bad assets on banks’ books are really worth much, much more than anyone is currently willing to pay for them. In fact, their true value is so high that if they were properly priced, banks wouldn’t be in trouble.

And so the plan is to use taxpayer funds to drive the prices of bad assets up to “fair” levels. Mr. Paulson proposed having the government buy the assets directly. Mr. Geithner instead proposes a complicated scheme in which the government lends money to private investors, who then use the money to buy the stuff. The idea, says Mr. Obama’s top economic adviser, is to use “the expertise of the market” to set the value of toxic assets.

But the Geithner scheme would offer a one-way bet: if asset values go up, the investors profit, but if they go down, the investors can walk away from their debt. So this isn’t really about letting markets work. It’s just an indirect, disguised way to subsidize purchases of bad assets.

But the real problem with this plan is that it won’t work. Yes, troubled assets may be somewhat undervalued. But the fact is that financial executives literally bet their banks on the belief that there was no housing bubble, and the related belief that unprecedented levels of household debt were no problem. They lost that bet. And no amount of financial hocus-pocus — for that is what the Geithner plan amounts to — will change that fact.

So there you have it — Democratic columnist Paul Krugman is already on the record saying the Geithner bailout plan won’t work on the very day of its unveiling. I look forward to reviewing this prediction at this time next year.

And BTW, I am glad to see Krugman agrees with opinions about the true purpose of the plan which I offered in recent posts.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 14:50:30

“The idea, says Mr. Obama’s top economic adviser, is to use “the expertise of the market” to set the value of toxic assets.”

We already did that, and the market’s expertise determined that most of the assets were either worthless or not far off.

Comment by james
2009-03-23 18:05:26

I wonder if the value of some of the assets are negative aka liabilities?

if your holding a bunch of Florida real estate and getting mangled on taxes and the property is going to be worthless… might be an enviromental charge to tearing them down.

So, possible Detroit/Cleveland/Fla/Vegas MBS could drive a valuation negative?

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 08:23:40

What really bothers me about this current dead cat bounce on Wall Street (the second of this recession, by my count) is that it seems so absolutely divorced from the realities of the economy right now.

I keep hearing of so many boneheaded money decisions made over the last 5 years or so by friends and family that I just can’t help but be shocked. Take, for instance, the latest from a couple I know that doesn’t live too far from me. The husband was in college for 6 years but dropped out w/o a degree because he got his wife pregnant 2 years ago. The wife has completed training to be a hairdresser but she hasn’t taken the licensing exam yet because she has to stay home watching the kid. He had a job working at a machine shop until about a month ago; then he got laid off.

Here the plot thickens. He and his wife are living in an in-law apartment on a detached garage on his parents’ property. His mother always said she wanted to “live on a commune”, and she’s done her best to make one; both of his sets of grandparents, his best friend, his 27 year old sister, his parents and somebody else who I’ve never met all live in the main house. (Now providing room and board for grandparents is noble and a good thing to do, but for random friends and other people?)

But here’s where it gets crazy. His dad just lost his job as a chemical engineer. His mother has no job. The family is struggling to stay afloat because when his parents moved into their current house a few years ago they never sold their old house. Why? Because the goofy (and unemployed, uneducated, and frankly lazy) 27 y/o sister still has 4 horses stabled there, and the mother can’t bring herself to make the daughter give them up. Why? “She deserves to have a hobby”. (On top of that, the horses have been very poorly taken care of; they look tired, sickly, and miserable whenever I’ve seen them, and apparently they’re not sellable because of their poor maintenance…but I digress.) On top of that, the family is paying to have 2 ADDITIONAL horses stabled at a professional stable somewhere.

So now his parents are on the verge of losing both houses…which would put both his sets of grandparents, his own fledgling family, and everyone else in that house on the street. And his mother is still resisting trying to sell the old house because of the horses.

Good grief.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 09:00:59

Well, that is a story!
Doubt anybody will top that one today.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 09:39:28

I haven’t seen such a good one in such a long time.

The horses and the mom gave it an extra-special touch that is hard to replicate.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 10:42:24

agreed FPSS

(p.s. I’m blade_runner at FIBS. IIRC you play backgammon)

___

Whatya think Oly?
Kurt Vonnegot ish?

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 11:18:56

It’s a true comedy of errors.

On top of that, I got a somewhat worried call from him earlier stating that his wife thinks she might be pregnant again (!) and that she wants him to join some branch of the military so they get insurance. I guess he took the Coast Guard entrance exam or something recently, but he’s dragging his feet on filing the rest of the paperwork or something.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:25:34

I need to get to FIBS. I’m not sure I’m good enough.

I just play using Jellyfish and GNU.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 13:13:28

Yeah, it’s Kurt Vonnegut-y, alright.
Sigh. Poor horses. I grew up with horses, but they were work horses. They had jobs, and valuable jobs, too. See, you actually have to take CARE of the animal and all that tedious stuff. Imagine that!

I’ve noticed a lot of these so-called ‘horse lovers’ are not in fact horse-lovers, but are only suffering from a protracted hormonal-12-year-old-girl prepubescent sort of state. Freudian as alllll get out, is what I’m saying.
I betcher this dumb-as*s daughter also has posters of unicorns and elves on her walls. People like this should be denied the ownership of horses, or any other animal, and it’s too bad they can’t be sterilized as well, because I bet if she had kids, they’d be in the same condition.

Anyway, moving on, as Fasty says, the hypocrisy in the US on the subject of horses is vast.
I’m conflicted about the subject, myself. I’ve known many horses, and never known a bad one.* They’re smart, brave, loyal animals with giant hearts. I can’t imagine eating one—heckfire, I’d sooner eat the UPS woman.**

*Except for Shorty. Now there’s and evil little fooker. *grumbles darkly and imagines eating Shorty, with great pleasure *

**She looks juicy.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 13:30:53

I can’t imagine eating one.

I grew up vegetarian and some point made the rational decision that either I was gonna be omnivorous or vegetarian. The wishy-washy in-between don’t-eat-what’s-cute doesn’t work with me. ;-)

Naturally, I have likes and dislikes but the latter keeps shrinking with experience. And from an ecological perspective, I eat everything but meat and fish are in (extreme) moderation.

I could probably chow down a whole bucket of oysters though. ;-)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 14:34:03

I could probably chow down a whole bucket of oysters though.

What a coincidence! Guess what I had for lunch! :)
With crusty chewey bread, and butter and lemons, and a beer.

Anyhow, it’s not I won’t eat what’s ‘cute’, like some sort of candy-a*ss failure to commit to SERIOUS eating, because cows and calves are insufferably cute, and I eat them with joy. But see, horses are pals, whereas cows and other animals are food, and I rarely eat pals. Not unless they reallllly deserve it, and then it’s more of a teaching them a lesson sort of event. See, with horses, oh, ANYWAY, look, man, I don’t have to be reasonable! So there!

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2009-03-23 15:55:08

I don’t eat horses, but I had a heck of a love for paste about 33 years ago.

 
Comment by speedingpullet
2009-03-23 17:04:34

LOL - IIRC the only thing screaming when you eat paste is barley or someother protein-rich grain.

Though, if you’re a vegan it could easily be seen as bad.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 09:11:18

deserves

I’m not too sure how people came up with the idea that they deserve things that they can’t pay for.

I bet that house empties out in a hurry when the freeloaders find out that they might have to start helping with the house payment.

So if you don’t pay your stable bill, do they reposes your horse?

Comment by DennisN
2009-03-23 10:54:45

I doubt they would reposess your horse. There’s a huge excess of pet horses in this country. IIUC they have essentially no resale value except for the meat.

Montana is bringing back horse meat packing plants.

http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/senate_gives_final_ok_to_horse_slaughter_bill/9041/

I’m not sure if they sell the meat to the French or to pet food companies.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 11:11:08

Are the French fond of horse meat or something?

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:22:01

I am too.

Plus, french fries made in horse fat are to die for.

And Texas is the largest exporter of horse meat in the world. (The hypocrisy in the US about this subject is off the charts!)

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 11:23:20

Oui.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-23 11:41:48

I was in Geneva for work a couple of years ago every day we ate in the cafeteria for lunch. The first day in the cafeteria, my Swiss co-workers all decided to get the special - cheval.

My French is pretty bad, so luckily I asked someone translate and ended up with the chicken. By all accounts, the special was very taste.

 
 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-03-23 11:58:37

Mr. Ed becomes Elmers Glue.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 10:10:08

Can you report the owner for poor care of the horses?

Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 11:04:40

I’m starting to think I should do this. One of the horses looks so bad that I’m wondering if it should simply be put out of its misery altogether.

Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 12:50:20

I think you should report it.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 12:56:20

Yes, I echo SanFranGal here—do report them.

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 15:38:58

Contact the Humane Society in their area and tell them you wish to remain anonymous. They will tell you the best way to get hold of local Humane Law Enforcement Officers and how you can file a complaint with them. My guess is that if the horses are removed from the home and sent to foster care it will end up being a huge relief for the family. But even if it isn’t the horse’s concerns outweigh the family’s.

Kids and pets - don’t have them if you can’t take care of them. Period!

Good luck and let us know what happens.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-03-23 11:02:47

The husband was in college for 6 years but dropped out w/o a degree

Good grief. I graduated easily in 4 years with a degree in physics, which arguably is the toughest undergrad major. What’s wrong with this guy? Was he so indecisive that he kept changing majors?

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 11:24:55

He was on the John Blutarsky program.

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-03-23 11:36:05

At least he could have put it away until he was finished his degree…oh nevermind

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-23 14:42:31

Nah - he was one of those blokes whose main extracurricular activity was drinking himself retarded every night. Having a perpetual nasty hangover really makes passing classes hard, apparently. I don’t think he had accumulated more than about 50 credits during his days @ OH State.

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:12:24

Laughing because the human comedy will either make you laugh or cry, and I’d rather laugh…

to DennisN: showoff. Took me 5 years (one year off, working) & my GPA was unmentionable. But no pregnancies. :P

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Comment by ACH
2009-03-23 20:32:32

Physics? So did I. Physics was fun. I really like it. I went and did the gradual school thingy. That was still sorta fun, sometimes, a little bit.
Roidy

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-03-23 14:48:58

I think the scariest part of this story is that a chemical engineer was laid off. Politicians (The Messiah included) love to say how much we need science and engineering…gotta get the kids interested in science and engineering… and they don’t even employ the scientists and engineers we have.

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:15:43

Have to keep the price of skilled labor down, doncha know.

The one working person in this whole crazy household reminds me somewhat of Gregor Samsa. One morning he woke up having been transformed into a monstrous vermin … he lost his job, and the family (none of whom worked) was ruined.

 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-03-23 08:49:14

Palm Beach County homes sales continue to rise in February; prices still fall

By JEFF OSTROWSKI

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Monday, March 23, 2009

Palm Beach County home prices continued to fall in February, but sales spiked as bargain hunters snapped up foreclosures and short sales.

The median price of a single-family home in Palm Beach County was $228,100, down 34 percent from a year ago and off 2 percent from January. However, 532 homes sold, up 33 percent from a year ago.

In the Treasure Coast, the median house price was $122,100, down 29 percent from a year ago and less than half the 2005 peak. But the Treasure Coast median price rose above January’s levels, and sales rose 41 percent, creating hope that the hard-hit area might finally have reached a bottom.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-03-23 10:44:17

By “bargain hunters” do they mean mostly investors?

Hardly a healthy market if so…

 
Comment by Asparagus
2009-03-23 12:14:47

I love this!

“Palm Beach County home prices continued to fall in February, BUT sales spiked as bargain hunters snapped up foreclosures and short sales.”

“The median price … down 34 percent from a year ago…. HOWEVER,.. homes sold, up 33 percent from a year ago.”

Prices falling but people are buying more?? What? That’s weird…

This reporter needs to hit econ 101. (or econ 25b).

 
 
Comment by waiting_in_la
2009-03-23 08:56:44

How and Why Athletes go broke :

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153364/1/index.htm

Nothing earth-shattering, but a good read.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 09:34:22

Not earth-shattering, perhaps, but the numbers cited in the article are still pretty sobering:

— By the time they have been retired for two years, 78% of former NFL players have gone bankrupt or are under financial stress because of joblessness or divorce.

— Within five years of retirement, an estimated 60% of former NBA players are broke.

I’ll bet their financial planners made plenty in commissions and fees, however.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 10:24:24

Making money initially, and investing and growing it are different skillsets.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 10:49:11

True enough.

The point is that many of the “planners” in question either didn’t care to grow the money responsibly or had no idea how to do so.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:12:09

In my limited experience with friends and family (lots of money but not super-money like the athletes, etc.) they don’t want to listen.

Patience is notoriously hard to teach, and the golden rule is: if you don’t like the bid today, go away. You may have to go away for a few years but you will get some of the (financial) items that you want at steep value discounts.

And that makes money in the long-run.

(This is nothing more than a restatement of Messrs. Graham and Dodd, btw.)

But they all want it now, and if they don’t get it now, they will get someone else who will be more than happy to lead them down the primrose path for a fat commission, and tell them that everything they say is, oh, so wonderful!

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-03-23 13:37:15

It’s more of a lifestyle problem than an investment problem. If I had, say, $5 million in cash, I could use $500K of it to set myself up to live on ~$20K a year, easily. If I ladder the rest in CD’s to keep up with inflation, it would take me 200 years to blow through that.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 09:51:51

Here’s the crux of the matter:

“Chronic overallocation into real estate and bad private equity is the Number 1 problem [for athletes] in terms of a financial meltdown,” Butowsky says. “And I’ve never seen more people come to me about raising money for those kinds of deals than athletes.”

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 10:52:30

Sucker born every minute… scammers know these athletes are high on testosterone, low on brains… heck, many of them don’t even finish college, and if they do, it’s BS degrees like “event management”. They’ve “got it made” so why bother with trivilities like an education? Their harpy GFs think they have it made too, I guess, then dump them when they get injured and the money stops coming.

All a scammer has to do is flatter Mr. Big-Shot, and you can be sure he’ll pile in on this high-risk, high reward (allegedly), EXCLUSIVE opportunity… after all, he’s part of the upper crust now … people fall all over themselves to feed him, groom him, f*** him–why not make oodles of money for him?

Hope you enjoy those $1000 hookers, lobster dinners, and lines of coke while you can get ‘em, because it’s going to be smack-face crack ho’s, gutter butts, and loaves of bread from the food bank when you’re through.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-03-23 11:37:28

Hall of Fame linebacker Derrick Thomas, who died at 33 following a January 2000 car crash, had ignored the urging of his financial adviser to make a will, and his entire estate was left for the court to divide, touching off a legal battle among the five mothers of his seven children.

Actually guys like this annoy me more than AIG guys getting bonuses.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-23 18:21:36

It’s all the same mindset.

 
 
Comment by devo
2009-03-23 15:39:15

I would recommend “Jackpot” by Jim Fixx for anyone interested in more of this stuff. Fixx wrote the best seller “Complete book of running” in 1977 and several others and he became a TV Guru for the nationwide running boom in the late 70’s early 80’s (before tragically dying of a heart attack age 52).

After he became famous he started getting calls, from all sort of shysters and con men tring to sell him various investments and schemes and “Jackpot” tells the story of how he tries to negiotiate this nest of vipers.

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 08:58:28

Someone I know just made some money indirectly off Citi — Citi (or an ad agency working for Citi, more accurately) licensed a song of his for use in TV spots.

He’ll make low-to-mid five figures after his label takes a cut. A drop in the bucket for Citi, but a nice windfall for a working musician.

In the past, this particular guy was loathe to license music for corporate ads, but I guess he figures he should be happy for the money given the state of the economy.

Comment by Muggy
2009-03-23 11:07:59

You knew this would bring me out of the cave!

Make sure your buddy has his publishing affairs in order. You wouldn’t believe how much loot goes unclaimed. That was my first assignment: collect undiscovered royalties for about 6 composers back in the day… Found $96k in about 1 month.

The outfit I pinch hit for is fading — the ad work is all but gone and they’re down to one TV show.

*re-lurks!*

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 11:14:28

Muggy in the house. Nice. I hope that you were able to get off the doom and gloom “chaos pipe” on your hiatus. I can’t seem to quit it!

MrBubble

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 11:36:32

That was my first assignment: collect undiscovered royalties for about 6 composers back in the day… Found $96k in about 1 month.

That’s stunning, really.

I have no idea how this particular deal is structured, but I’ll pass along the information when I see him next.

 
 
Comment by Asparagus
2009-03-23 12:05:43

Any rights to that song may be one of their major assets at this point. ..

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 09:01:38

NEW YORK, March 23 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve bought $2.692 billion of Fannie Mae (FNM.P), Freddie Mac (FRE.P) and the Federal Home Loan Bank’s debt on Monday, the New York Federal Reserve said on its website.

Dealers submitted $4.176 billion for consideration in the purchase, in which the Fed bought debt maturing between April 2011 and November 2012.

On Friday, the Fed said it would buy agencies with debt maturing between April 2011 and February 2013.

Agency purchases by the Fed now surpass $49 billion. The Fed last week doubled its commitment to buy agencies, saying it was ready to purchase up to $200 billion.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 10:03:10

Fed = mortgage securitization sump pump primer of last resort

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 09:19:06

Orwellian Word Watch:

Apparently the term “toxic assets” is no longer seen as a useful descriptor and has been supplanted by the much more benign-sounding “legacy assets.”

Witness the official Treasury Dept. Fact Sheet on the “Public Private Partnership Investment Program,” which uses the term “legacy” approximately 40 times. “Toxic” does not appear once.

Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-03-23 10:03:13

It’s all part of the sales pitch to bring investors onboard. Toxic and non performing aren’t good sellers.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 10:01:21

Q. Once land prices begin deflating, for how long can deflation continue?

A. For a really, really long time.

Japan Home Prices Slump to 24-Year Low as Recession Deepens
By Katsuyo Kuwako

March 23 (Bloomberg) — Japanese residential land prices fell to a 24-year low as job losses and wage cuts discouraged homebuyers, while tighter credit markets choked off funding for property developers.

Residential land prices fell 3.2 percent in 2008 to the lowest since 1984 and average commercial land prices dropped 4.7 percent to a three-year low, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, Transport and Tourism said today in a report. Overall property prices declined 3.5 percent, erasing two years of gains that followed a 15-year slump.

The decline in residential land values, which are about half of what they were at the height of Japan’s bubble economy in 1991, may continue as the recession deepens. The central bank forecasts the sharpest economic contraction in more than 60 years as an unprecedented decline in exports forces companies to cut production and fire workers.

“Money for investing in real estate has been flowing out of Japan” because of the credit crunch and recession, Akiyoshi Inoue, president of Tokyo-based Sanyu Appraisal Corp., the nation’s biggest appraiser, said. “Price gains in the past few years are being wiped out.”

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-23 10:37:19

“…erasing two years of gains that followed a 15-year slump…”

Now that was a dead cat bounce! If they couldn’t support RE prices on a mountainous (read: volcanic) and heavily forested island nation…how do our guys think their plans will play so well in Peoria?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:18:55

Well, supposedly, we are running out of land. ;-)

Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 12:56:01

Just save enough land so we can bury these fools.

Ooops wait ..can we cremate them if they’ve been burned once before ?

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 10:47:32

nice PB

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-23 20:21:43

“Japan Home Prices Slump to 24-Year Low as Recession Deepens”

(in my best Beavis impression): Heh…Heh heh heh…heh heh heh heh! Cewl dude!

24 years ago there were tens of thousands of Japanese thinking, real estate only goes up, Japan’s available land is running out. Buy now before being prices out of the market.

reprise: Heh…Heh heh heh…Heh heh heh heh…

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 10:38:12

Global recession stalls skyscraper construction
Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:58am EDT
FACTBOX: Many skyscrapers on hold due to global recession
10:58am EDT

By Andrew Stern

CHICAGO (Reuters) - There is a gaping hole where one of the world’s tallest buildings is supposed to go up.

The planned 150-story Chicago Spire would be 2,000 feet tall if it gets built atop its completed foundation, ranking the tower the tallest in the Western Hemisphere and the sixth-tallest among the world’s planned skyscrapers.

The Spire was supposed to be finished by 2012 and the Irish developer staged a global marketing campaign. Buyers snapped up a third of its 1,194 luxury condominiums priced between $750,000 and $40 million. Ty Warner, creator of the Beanie Baby toys, opted for the top-priced penthouse.

But after digging a 76-foot-deep hole and sinking caissons, construction on the twisting Spire — inspired, its famed architect Santiago Calatrava said, by swirling smoke from a Native American campfire — was stalled in January by the credit crisis that is stifling construction worldwide.

Chicago has long been a showcase for tall towers since the steel-framed skyscraper was invented, its history full of developers whose ambitions sometimes crashed on the rocks of economic slowdowns, said John Norquist, president of non-profit group The Congress for the New Urbanism.

For people living in the hundreds of new condominiums near the planned Spire, the unbuilt site “starts to look like a blight,” Norquist said.

“When everybody’s feeling buoyant and they all think they’re going to be billionaires overnight, that’s when these ‘biggest’ plans come about. If you get them going before the bust hits, they get built right away. Otherwise you’ve got to wait and sometimes they don’t get built at all,” he said.

Globally, work has been halted on 142, or 11 percent, of 1,324 skyscraper projects, including 29 of 301 U.S. projects, according to Emporis GmbH, a German company that tracks development. Work is stalled on the five tallest buildings on five continents, including the Spire — Emporis refers to these landmark buildings as “Babel” projects.

MASSIVE JOB LOSSES

The U.S. economic downturn has probably been felt most acutely in the construction industry. Some 2 million American construction workers are unemployed and the industry’s 21.4 percent jobless rate is the highest of any sector.

“Every month we see massive job loss in the construction industry and every month it gets worse … The construction industry is in a near depression,” said Terry O’Sullivan, head of the Laborers’ International Union of North America.

The recently passed U.S. economic stimulus bill was expected to funnel $150 billion into building and repairing infrastructure, which the union said would employ 700,000 workers, for a while. The stimulus funding is viewed as only a downpayment on the $2.2 trillion engineers say is needed to rebuild the nation’s infrastructure. Fewer workers are needed to perform maintenance than build from scratch, laborers say.

“If there’s no buildings going up, what do you do?” said James Connolly, a Laborers’ union manager. “Prepare yourself because it’s going to get worse before it gets better.”

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-23 12:55:41

Where’s Brian In Chicago? A year or more back, he said the Spire’s high tech foundation was the bee’s knees (which it very well may be) and that the site wouldn’t be underutilized even if the Spire went kerplooey, because the foundation is so badass. Eventually, he may be right. But the property taxes on that land alone run just under $1 million a year, so I’m not expecting a Foundation Savior anytime soon.

Another Spire note: principal architect Calatrava filed a lien of $11.3 million against the developers last October, and Chicago architects Perkins & Will, who oversaw the day-to-day operations, filed a separate $4.85 million lien against the developers.

To my knowledge, neither has recouped their money.

Comment by Brian in Chicago
2009-03-23 22:00:45

Hey, I’m still here!

Did you see the Trib today? One of the AFL-CIO pension funds has begun negotiations to finance the Spire in exchange for making it a 100% union job site.

 
 
 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 10:42:57

Test

Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 10:48:52

96%

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 10:58:05

Is there a chance for extra credit? I likes me the A double plus (good). :smile:

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 12:40:28

Very well, Mr. Bubble. You can make a big shiny sexy/creepy metal robot-woman who can dance good*. That’s an easy double plus good, right there.

*Metropolis reference, just in case you’re thinking of a <i<differentbig shiny sexy/creepy metal robot-woman who can dance good. Which I bet you think of alllllll the time….but that’s okay. Me, too. :)

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Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 13:42:15

I have no cogent response to this post. All that comes out is “motherboard interface with wetware experiencing run-time errors” and I don’t know how to trouble-shoot that error.

“Oly, gives the extra credit exams.
Trust me, stick with the 96%”

Haven’t you ever wanted to be the teacher’s pet? [I'm talking to you Ms. Townsend, Mrs. Elias' fifth grade teachers aide circa 1982].

 
 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 12:45:02

Oly, gives the extra credit exams.
Trust me, stick with the 96%

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Comment by Big V
2009-03-23 17:24:02

You have to buy me a beer on the 3rd. That’ll earn you 10 points.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-23 10:59:11

What??? You only gave MrBubble 96%. MrBubble at least deserved a 99% :)

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 11:06:45

Thanks, Gal! Where I grew up, I was wicket smaht!

Hope that you enjoyed yesterday. Blustery, but sunny. I gave myself and a friend food poisoning for breakfast (yum!) and that shut us down for the day. And now I’m in the sub-basement laboratory (pronounced la-bor-a-tory) in Palo Alto. Rats!

Napa from Wednesday on though. Got any favorite spots up there?

MrBubble

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 15:16:06

Well, Mr. Bubble, I imagine you’s probably wicket smaht where you are right now, too.

It was also blustery here yesterday. Today is calm and gray and still, like being inside a pearl.

You’s in a basement lab-or-a-tory?! Whatcher doing in there!? Making mutants! Huh huh huh?!
Awesome! I can only hope! Make them have glowing red eyes! Supernumerary digits! Poison spit! All that good stuff! And then don’t forget to leave the room to go do some smaht thingie or other, leaving only a novice lab-technician in there supervising them….
Oh, no! What is that distant screaming sound?….

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 15:33:20

Yeah, shahp as a mahble.

No mutants in the la-bore-a-tree, but I do get to blast things with a “laser”! We even have a blinking red sign on the door that warns, “Danger: Laser Beams Accessible”. Coolest nerds around.

And our lab tech is German. Achtung, mutants! Schlacthof-funf for you…

HerrBubble

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-23 16:24:52

I love marbles. I buy them often at the Dollar Store. The neighbor boy comes over in the summer sometimes and we play, although one of us is a sore loser, alas. (And it’s not the 8 year old.)

Well, lasers are promising, for sure! Are you going to mount them to the heads of giant mutant wombats? Is what I’m visualizing here!
Also, it’s SO good to hear that the lab assistant is German. All the best, most evil ones are. Is he/she/it alive? Or re-animated? I wonder?

 
 
 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-23 13:03:03

I thought the magic number of the day was 93%.

 
 
 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-03-23 10:46:06

PBS American Experience series tonight has a re-broadcast of 29 Crash. Insert “houses” and “housing market” where they say “stock” and “stock market” for big fun.

If you cannot view on TV, you can view online at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/crash/

 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 10:47:36

Seriously? I’m a troll because I think that the Great Depression Part 2 might not be at hand after all? I’m telling you what I experienced Saturday. The malls was packed, the restaurant I ate at was booked to capacity.

I’m a pragmatist. If I see signs that things are turning around, I’m no going to stick my head in the sand and pretend otherwise.

Comment by Observer
2009-03-23 11:26:53

I have witnessed some of what you have experienced but I have also been into stores that were empty (I was in a Target Saturday night and there were perhaps 30 customers in the whole store, never seen a Target so empty) so perhaps it is selective memory.

I haven’t been able to resolve why I see restaurants packed, then go into Target and basically having the whole store to myself, with rising unemployment and the poor economic performance just about every public company is reporting.

Are consumers enjoying one last hurrah before the final capitulation? Or, perhaps it is because I usually eat in higher-end areas of town and shop at lower-end areas? It is perplexing.

Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 11:43:59

Here’s my theory (troll theory?). We have 8% unemployment. For the past 6-9 months the media and Obama have been telling the country we are in a depression. The end of the world is here. And for 6-9 months people have been scared to move.

Well the 92% that is still employed is starting to think screw it, I’m not going to live my life in fear forever. And so they’re hitting the malls and going out to dinner and enjoying life again.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-23 12:22:48

“Well the 92% that is still employed is starting to think screw it, I’m not going to live my life in fear forever.”

How Kuldowistic.

So an increase in unemployment of 100% with further increases almost certain is not a big deal aye mate?

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 12:47:49

“Kuldowistic”

I like that.
I’ll steal, er, ahh, I’ll remember it.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-03-23 14:16:44

That’s how the REIC types around here are spinning it ad nauseum. The long term default rate on mortgages is (from what I’ve heard) .5 to 1% in Portland area. The rate is (depending who you ask) is now 3-5%.

So even though 95% are still paying on time, the default rate is 5x what it should be.

Regarding busy restaurants, I have another theory. Instead of going to Palm Springs for vacation, people are staying at home, saving the $3K, and going out to eat at Applebees for $75 a pop or Ruth’s Chris for $300 a pop. Movie theatres are also doing well around here. It’s the staycations, stupid.*

*That was a play on words. It wasn’t meant to imply that anyone, living or deceased, is actually stupid. Although they could be. Just sayin’

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 12:44:05

“Well the 92% that is still employed is starting to think screw it”……

Not me, and I’d bet lots of people who make a lot less than me aren’t either.

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Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-23 12:44:12

Looking at people in the malls and ignoring fundamentals is what made everyone think things were “good” during the housing bubble. Shopping activity is not a solid “fundamental” as it can be caused by all kinds of things. The beginnings of hyperinflation are also marked by an “increase in spending” as the average joe starts to move cash into anything tangible… I am not saying that is what is happening, just that your “measurements” are meaningless and ignore many other more significant fundamentals.

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Comment by oxide
2009-03-23 14:53:34

Dinner at Applebee’s isn’t a tangible good, not for very long anyway. And I didn’t know shoes were inflation hedges. The rise in gun and ammo sales, however…

 
 
Comment by bfnelson
2009-03-23 13:56:15

The unemployment number they are using is false.

If you count everybody who’s actually unemployed it’s 18-19%

Check out shadowstats sometime.

So we are close to depression era levels already.

The reason it doesn’t feel like it is all the government programs keeping everyone out of the streets and fed.

Take those away and you have bedlam.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-23 20:25:56

Manny, the 92% of us are saving more and spending less. We are fearing for our jobs.

Rationale: Savings rate is now 5% and was below 0% for a couple of years.

These observations of “packed restaurants” are spotty. You have to be in all the markets and all the restaurants to see the real trend.

Or more simply just check the earnings reports of restaurant chains the last two quarters.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-23 11:28:28

Say, you’re not from western Michigan are you? Because there’s a guy over on the Yahoo Finance boards today posting the exact same stuff about malls and restaurants being crowded.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:30:33

It’s only the bottom of the fifth in the first game, and it’s a double header.

I’d reserve my judgment for now.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 11:31:05

Well when you stop paying your mortgage or credit card bills, you find yourself with plenty of money to blow at the malls!

Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 12:51:08

Kim

“Well when you stop paying your mortgage or credit card bills, you find yourself with plenty of money to blow at the malls!”

Or buy FNM, as my building superintendent did when he bought at 45 cents.
And he didn’t sell at $1.25 because “I was afraid it would go higher after I sold.”

Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 14:17:54

He stopped paying his mortgage to buy Fannie May stock? Well, its at $.85 after hours - now might be a good time to sell it.

Last week on Suze Orman (I think it was last week), some woman put a $100K HELOC on her house and put it all in one (yes, one!) stock (ticker not mentioned), which, when she called in to Suze was worth $700.

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-23 15:33:37

“He stopped paying his mortgage to buy Fannie May stock? ”
Yes

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-23 15:58:22

Wow, just wow, re: you and Kim both.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-23 11:52:59

‘ I’m a troll because I think that the Great Depression Part 2 might not be at hand after all?’

Yes, complete with a strawman. We don’t need a great depression to cause housing prices to fall further. The housing bubble baked that in the cake. And if you listen to the builders and others in the REIC, they say they are in a depression.

This is important, because they will undercut recent buyers and some will go under, which will put land into the hands of others, who then have a lower basis in the property and can build at an even lower price. Then there are the lenders who continue to lower prices on foreclosures. This is a self reinforcing cycle that makes it almost impossible to call a bottom.

IMO, no one can say because we have never had a mania like this one in history. It went on for so long that the lax lending and overbuilding was unprecedented.

As for malls and housing, just check out retail sales and GDP numbers. Am I supposed to buy a house because the food court is full? Or should I pay more attention to the job loss numbers, etc?

Comment by scdave
2009-03-23 12:15:41

which will put land into the hands of others, who then have a lower basis in the property and can build at an even lower price ??

Excellent point Ben…A continuing lowering of the bar that the resale market must follow…

 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 12:52:15

All I said was that I am seeing signs that things aren’t as bad as I thought…or you say they are. I sold my house and an investment property in 2006 and 2007. I saw what was coming, I acted accordingly. And I’ve been renting since and watching, monitoring and waiting.

What I’m seeing now is that things are not as dire as they once were. These latest figures - 25% or whatever it was % increase in new building and 5% increase in pending sales - confirm what I’ve been thinking. Add that to my anecdotal evidence of malls/restaurants and I think some kind of bottom is here or is close to forming.

I’m not saying go out and but 10 houses with 0% down because people are at the mall. I’m not rushing out to buy anything myself. But as of today I am closer to buying something than I was a month or two or six ago. People at the mall, you can dismiss as a one off. People at restaurants, same thing. Higher pending sales on their own? Fluke. Higher retail numbers in Jan/Feb? Fluke. Higher new building? Fluke. But all of these together are flukes as well? I don’t think so.

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 17:23:07

5% increase FROM LAST MONTH. A 4% decrease FROM LAST YEAR. And something like a 25% decrease in prices from last year. Can you show me a February that did not have a sales increase from the January immediately preceding it? Who cares about month to month? If we are already 4% worse this year than we were last year at this time that may suggest a wee bit more we have to work out in the economy.

If you think the economy is great than invest in it. Eventually it will go up. But on this site we look at data long-term, not just the last 59 days. And if you turn out to be PB in a troll suit I will beat you with a wet noodle and feed you to Oly’s frogs.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2009-03-23 12:38:38

I was at the mall Saturday as well and ate at Apple blah blah blah. It was packed. Dinner with son = $30.

My customers are averaging 60% less business this year (capital spending on manufacturing). My company is announcing either reduced work weeks or layoffs tomorrow, first time ever. Revenue is off $10Mil or so.

Let’s see which indicator proves to be more telling.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-03-23 17:28:43

Manny:

I could have sworn you were on this board a while back trolling. With your bad grammar and all.

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 19:33:12

No offense Big V but in terms of blog postings (including mine unhappily) that’s not what I would call bad grammar. A couple typos, but we all do that when excited about a topic. (I think mall was supposed to be singular and heck, who doesn’t dangle thingies around here?)

Just because your duck can outwrite and outspell the majority of us doesn’t mean we can all live up to your high standards. :D

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 10:47:41

From the Agora 5…

Not to be outdone by the Fed, the Treasury announced its own trillion-dollar bailout plan this morning.

Showing its desire to out-alphabet the old New Dealers, too, Geithner and crew unveiled the masterfully named “Public-Private Investment Program” (PPIP). The program is essentially a fully revised and updated version 2.0 of the Resolution Trust Corp. (RTC) set up in the late ’80s to deal with the S&L crisis.

In this episode, Uncle Sam will be teaming up with private investors to buy toxic assets, rather than failed S&Ls. Suspiciously, the most easy-to-understand explanation we’ve found detailing the program came from the government. Here’s how they described it to the New York Times:

“A pool of bad residential mortgage loans with a face value of $100 is auctioned by the FDIC. Private investors would submit bids. In the example, the top bidder, an investor offering $84, would win and purchase the pool. The FDIC would guarantee loans for $72 of that purchase price. The Treasury would then invest in half the $12 equity, with funds coming from the $700 billion bailout program (TARP); the private investor would contribute the remaining $6.”

See? They’re solving a complex leverage problem with a complicated system of more leverage –plus federal guarantees and loans. The government will initially finance up to $500 billion in toxic purchases, expandable up to $1 trillion. The Treasury insists that profits, should they magically appear, will be split 50/50 with the private sector.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 10:56:57

OK. I need the board’s help on an issue.

I have a friend who was dragged into real estate through his family and is now at his wit’s end. He tried to help a parent out who’s been through some real troubles. He has one more property to sell and is under water on it. I told him that he can:

a) continue to “feed the alligator” so that the rich d-bags that we went to school with can still afford to send their kids to our school and continue the cycle of robbery and never see the house price back at 2005 levels in real terms

b) try for a short sale

c) walk away

I am pushing for c) but I don’t know anything about the laws (or much of what I’m talking about). I’d just hate for him to hope/believe that the market is coming back when it isn’t. Anyone have a site or link that could help him? This info could also help my brother who is in the same position. Perhaps my parents… [Apparently, I am a cassandra]

He says that he is the guarantor of the loan (through his corporation–probably an LLC), but I figured that the contract was that, in the event of non-payment, the bank would get the house. He is 0.8 X total household earnings on his own house and his wife has excellent credit. He lamented that his credit would be destroyed. But I said, “Who cares? Why do you need credit? And it’s only for 3 years or so.”

Thanks for thinking on this question and any help that you can give. I have another that I’ll post in a bit [Oh yay!]

MrBubble

PS: It’s never been a better time to be a friend to or enemy to MrBubble!

Comment by combotechie
2009-03-23 11:18:41

“Anyone have a site or link that can help him?”

Direct him to this one.

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 11:30:38

Wise@ss!!

It would take him a while to get up to speed and sift through the voluminous info that is posted here. I always recommend this site to friends, but no one listens. [See my Cassandra comment above]

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-03-23 12:57:30

I found the same. Of all the people I referred to here, I think none look. I tell them to skip the front page and go straight to the comments for this is where the true information is. Those that wanted to buy continued. Others are torn, and perhaps are willing to loose a little in the short term to have stability for their family.

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Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 11:28:49

Is the state in which the mortgaged house is a recourse state or non-recourse? How far underwater is the mortgage? Are there any second mortgages (HELOCs, etc)?

From what I have been able to observe around here, banks are knocking off tens of thousands for short sales, but not hundreds of thousands.

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 13:45:45

Thanks for the comment, Kim. I sent him those questions, but he’s on vacation here in SF from NYC. Will see him tonight for cocktails, so will have by tomorrow AM.

MrBubble

 
 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 17:29:08

Ask around and see if anyone you know has done a successful short sale in his area. If so, contact that realtor and see what they advise and what the odds are of being successful. There actually are some good realtors out there helping people get through some difficult situations and if you find one who can make a short sale happen it will greatly help his credit. Tell him to avoid any group that wants him to pay a fee upfront for any advice/service/outcome.

Also, post the city and state where he is (maybe early in the day on Bits) and people may have more specific info about state laws (recourse vs. non-recourse) and individuals who can help.

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 10:58:55

Playboy Enterprises closing its New York City offices amid gloomy economy

NEW YORK (AP) — Playboy Enterprises is closing its Manhattan office and laying off employees as it struggles with falling advertising revenue and a gloomy economic climate.

Company spokeswoman Martha Lindeman says Playboy employed about 100 people at the Fifth Avenue office in midtown. A majority of those jobs will be lost when the office is expected to close May 1.

Lindeman says some employees received letters notifying them that their jobs were eliminated. Others were given the chance to transfer to Chicago.

Playboy announced in February on a conference call that it would save $5 million annually by closing the office.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:43:22

Looks like Bubbly and Jiggly and all other ass-orted ass-ets are going to be deflating soon! ;-)

Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 13:33:51

FPSS

The Law of Gravity always gets them in the end;)

 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-03-23 12:19:46

Had dinner at their Manhattan club in the late 60s. Also skied at their Great Gorge slope in the same era. Things have been downhill for them since.

Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 13:14:39

Alright, if SEX isn’t selling, this IS a Depression .

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 13:51:30

It’ll sell. Just not at these prices!

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 19:35:03

Why pay when it’s free on the Internet? (Or pay for the live version via Craigslist.) Oh, right. The ARTICLES. :D

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-23 20:37:46

Huh? Free? Can you provide me the URLS? ;)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Jason Read
2009-03-23 11:24:47

test

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 11:36:57

You fail with flying colors! ;-)

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-23 14:44:07

Im banned or slowedddddddddddd down

 
 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 11:33:30

Spanish restaurant lets diners pay at will

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090323/eu_spain_honest_dining.html?.v=1

 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 11:53:18

How does Prof. Bear do that Scooby doo impression?
Is it Rut Roo? :-D

Dubai World division sues MGM Mirage amid concerns over Las Vegas CityCenter project

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — The Dubai developer helping build the $8.6 billion CityCenter complex on the Las Vegas Strip said Monday it is suing struggling partner MGM Mirage amid concerns about the project’s viability.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090323/nv_dubai_vegas_lawsuit.html?.v=2

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:26:33

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-03-23 12:00:25

Part II: Geithner, Obama Kowtowing to “Massively Corrupted” Banks, Galbraith Says
Posted Mar 23, 2009 12:07pm EDT by Aaron Task in Newsmakers,

Like it or not, many people seem to be resigned to the idea there’s no alternative to the public-private investment fund scheme Treasury Secretary Geithner detailed this morning. (Click here for part one of our discussion of the plan.)

That’s hogwash, says University of Texas professor James Galbraith, author of The Predator State. Of course there’s an alternative: FDIC receivership of insolvent banks.

Aside from being legally proscribed, the upside of FDIC receivership is the banks are restructured and reorganized for potential sale (either in whole or parts), Galbraith says. Such was the fate in 2008 of, most notably, Washington Mutual and IndyMac.

Crucially, FDIC receivership also means new management teams for insolvent banks; and Galbraith notes new leaders will have no incentive to cover up the fraudulent or predatory lending practices of their predecessors. Given the entire system was “massively corrupted by the subprime debacle,” the professor believes criminal prosecutions on par with the aftermath of the S&L crisis - when hundreds of insiders went to jail - is a likely (and necessary) outcome of the current crisis.

But don’t expect to see many “perp walks” if Geithner’s current plan comes to fruition. That’s one reason Galbraith called the plan “extremely dangerous” in part one of our interview.

So why isn’t the Obama administration pushing for FDIC receivership? “Political influence of big banks,” the economist says.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 16:40:35

“That’s hogwash, says University of Texas professor James Galbraith, author of The Predator State. Of course there’s an alternative: FDIC receivership of insolvent banks.”

J K Galbraith speaks to us from the grave in much the same manner as Banquo’s line assumed the throne coveted by Macbeth.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 12:04:56

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stock exchanges and their most active traders are bracing for transaction fees to increase more than four-fold, which could affect trading strategies in a market that so far has managed to keep churning despite the severe sell-off.

There will be at least some impact on trading volumes when the fees — levied on stock sellers by U.S. regulators — jump next month, forcing smaller firms in particular to adjust strategies for making money in the recently volatile markets.

The fee increase is intended to avert a possible funding shortfall for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, the federal watchdog that regulates stock and options trading.

The SEC needs $1.02 billion to do its job, and beginning on April 10 it will charge $25.70 per $1 million in securities sales, up from the current $5.60, for equity and option trades on exchanges and over-the-counter markets.

Especially hard-hit will be institutional, high-frequency traders, who submit hundreds of orders per day. These private firms represent about 65 percent of overall matched volume and drive the vast majority of volatility that whipsaws stocks.

With high-frequency trading firms grabbing a growing share of the market, experts say any possible drop in trading volume depends on how well these firms weather the higher fees.

“We’re talking about a significant amount of money and certainly it will impinge on the high-frequency traders’ volumes a little bit, but it is spread out across the industry,” said Joe Gawronski, president of Rosenblatt Securities, an agency broker specializing in market structure.

The SEC’s so-called Section 31 fee fluctuates regularly. The current, $5.60 fee is the lowest in a decade, while the highest fee came in 2003, at $46.80.

BIGGER WORRIES

At the moment, market operators, who derive revenue from trading volume, are relatively sanguine about the fee hike — possibly because they have bigger worries on their plate. Of greater concern are possible new rules to curb short selling and the prospect of a transaction tax.

With the new Section 31 fees, high-frequency trading firms “may not be as aggressive as they could be, had that fee not been there, but by a de minimis amount, maybe 1 to 2 percent reduction in overall activity,” said Bill Karsh, chief operating officer at Direct Edge, the fast-growing alternative trading venue that executes 11 percent of U.S. equity trades.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-23 12:53:57

This is just another “tax increase” that will hurt the economy, though I do like the idea that the increased “costs” will make investors think longer term… the net effect will be to push prices down in the short term as even the day traders admit that they only “buy” to profit from short term rallies. This move will make the bear market rallies smaller while sucking more capital out of the private market into the government. I am sure that the people on this board could do better “regulation” with 10 million than the SEC can do with $1B.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 13:08:26

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nobel-prize winning economist Paul Krugman said in remarks published on Monday that the latest U.S. Treasury bailout program is nearly certain to fail, triggering a sense of personal despair.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Monday unveiled a plan aimed at persuading private investors to help rid banks up to $1 trillion in toxic assets that that are seen as a roadblock to economic recovery.

“This is more than disappointing,” Krugman wrote in The New York Times. “”In fact it fills me with a sense of despair.”

“The Geithner scheme would offer a one-way bet: if asset values go up, the investors profit, but if they go down, the investors can walk away from their debt,” the Princeton University economist said, citing weekend reports outlining the plan.

“This isn’t really about letting markets work. It’s just an indirect, disguised way to subsidize purchases of bad assets,” he added.

Krugman called it a recycled idea of former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who later abandoned the “cash for trash” proposal.

“But the real problem with this plan is that it won’t work,” he says, adding that bad loans may be undervalued because there is too much fear in the current climate.

“But the fact is that financial executives literally bet their banks on the belief that there was no housing bubble, and the related belief that unprecedented levels of household debt were no problem. They lost that bet. And no amount of financial hocus-pocus — for that is what the Geithner plan amounts to — will change that fact,” Krugman wrote.

While the real economy is being hurt by the meltdown of the financial system itself, Krugman says this is not the first or the last time this has happened. And there are lots of roadmaps to get us out.

“It goes like this: the government secures confidence in the system by guaranteeing many (though not necessarily all) bank debts. At the same time, it takes temporary control of truly insolvent banks, in order to clean up their books,” Krugman said.

Time is running out on the Obama administration to take control of the banks - and the crisis.

“If this plan fails - as it almost surely will - it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to persuade Congress to come up with more funds to do what he should have done in the first place,” he wrote.

The White House strongly disagreed with Krugman’s assessment, defending the administration plans on the morning talk shows.

“I think Paul’s just wrong on this one,” Christina Romer, head of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said on ABC’s “Good Morning America” show just ahead of the plan’s release.

“This is really tails both the government and the private sector win, heads both the government and the private sector lose. We both are going to have, as the saying goes, skin in the game.”

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-03-23 14:04:23

Ah, what does that pinko-commie Krugman know? ;-)

On the other hand, Romer scares me. It’s all rosey and sunshiney in her world. She just smiles into the camera and says things are/will be getting better any day now. She’s not even a convincing salesperson.

Regarding this plan, didn’t Enron try something similar?

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-03-23 15:08:22

Notice that Romer let it slip that the “plan” has at least a 50% chance of failing. When I signed up for giving my money away in bailouts I didn’t agree to those sort of odds.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-23 19:22:09

“This is really tails both the government and the private sector win, heads both the government and the private sector lose. We both are going to have, as the saying goes, skin in the game.”

She is absolutely 100% correct.

Except what she doesn’t realize is that they’re playing with Orthrus - a two-headed beast. This coin has no tails.

 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 13:12:01

To the SKF-istas.

TOLD YA!!!

Comment by Elanor
2009-03-23 13:46:06

It’s a great time to buy!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 13:47:41

I bought some near the close.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 14:07:15

Elanor, did you take your profits from the other day?

I got in at 97 & change - waaayyyy to high. But I’m hanging on to them.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 15:20:38

There is no way to time things perfectly (although one could argue that today was different.)

Besides, it’s a tradeoff between opportunity cost and getting in too early.

You’ll never get it right all the time. As long as you know why you bet the way they did.

I’ve taken many a steep mark-to-market loss in my life but you have to decide when to hold and when to fold.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:32:55

Trying to see it philosophically like you, FPSS. Really took it up the *** today. We could rally for a while on this … the short bus is on a joyride.

Loved how they rallied on “no salary caps”. Severe salary caps (or tax changes to the same effect) would flush out the bozo sociopaths … but we can’t have competant people in charge.

Reading “Sold Short” by Asensio. The whole US financial system is looking like a penny stock promote right now.

 
 
Comment by Elanor
2009-03-24 07:34:13

Kim–Sadly, no, I didn’t take my profits on Friday. My trailing stop kicked in while I was busy doing actual work on Monday, and I sold at a small profit. Time to buy more.

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Comment by Manny
2009-03-23 13:49:44

XLF on the other hand….ZOOM!!

 
 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 13:43:47

FPSS –

What about SRS < 50? Is it safe?

MrBubble

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-23 13:45:07

I went in 50 but it could go down further. I’d just buy more.

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-23 13:47:28

Cool. I got done at 49.65 for a few just before the close.

 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-03-23 14:05:21

Also in at 50. Nice.

 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-03-23 14:41:42

Added to my SRS @50. I don’t play SKF any more but I got some FAZ @25 and 20. Easy money :)

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:34:53

I hate you guys. I was at work. :-P

Oh well, maybe we gap down in the morning. X-D

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Comment by whino
2009-03-23 15:10:59

Knife catchers :-)

One in Five Americans Plan to Buy a Home Despite Economic Conditions

http://realestate.einnews.com/article.php?nid=7030

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 16:43:04

OK, now that the stock market has roared its approval of Geithner’s toxic asset removal scheme, is it safe to assume that stocks and real estate will hence forth resume always going up again?

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-03-23 17:15:29

well, DUH! Is 500 points not enough to convince ya?

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-23 19:22:34

Well, I bought SKF today which is usually a very strong signal that the market will continue to rally for a long while yet. :D

(I keep telling y’all that if you’d just chip in $100 a piece and help me buy a house, the home prices would drop 50% the day after I closed escrow. Isn’t it worth $100 to save 50% on a home? Please mail donations in care of Ben. ;) )

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 17:06:44

China calls for new reserve currency

By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing

Published: March 23 2009 12:16 | Last updated: March 23 2009 23:51

China’s central bank on Monday proposed replacing the US dollar as the international reserve currency with a new global system controlled by the International Monetary Fund.

In an essay posted on the People’s Bank of China’s website, Zhou Xiaochuan, the central bank’s governor, said the goal would be to create a reserve currency “that is disconnected from individual nations and is able to remain stable in the long run, thus removing the inherent deficiencies caused by using credit-based national currencies”.

Analysts said the proposal was an indication of Beijing’s fears that actions being taken to save the domestic US economy would have a negative impact on China.

“This is a clear sign that China, as the largest holder of US dollar financial assets, is concerned about the potential inflationary risk of the US Federal Reserve printing money,” said Qu Hongbin, chief China economist for HSBC.

Although Mr Zhou did not mention the US dollar, the essay gave a pointed critique of the current dollar-dominated monetary system.

“The outbreak of the [current] crisis and its spillover to the entire world reflected the inherent vulnerabilities and systemic risks in the existing international monetary system,” Mr Zhou wrote.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 17:48:02

The Recession’s Early Winners
by Brett Arends
Monday, March 23, 2009

It’s only six months into the crash, but the stock market is already starting to make some early calls. The market isn’t a perfect seer of the future, but it has a pretty good track record. And a few of the calls it’s making now are challenging the conventional wisdom.

IPhone nation lives. Shares in cellular companies tanked when the crisis first hit. Sprint crashed 85%. Apple fell by more than half. The conventional wisdom: Cellular contracts and fancy handhelds are very expensive. Even a $60 a month habit is costing you $720 a year. Desperate consumers would drop these plans, or scale back sharply, as they were forced to slash their household budgets.

So far? The market’s having a dramatic rethink. Shares in cellular companies have jumped about 40%, on average, from their November lows. During that time the rest of the market has gone nowhere. Sprint’s doubled from its distressed levels. Apple, Black Berry’s Research In Motion, even Palm have risen a long way.

me: So what? This industry still has questionable profitability going forward. A phone is a commodity, competition is fierce. I seem to recall MOTO had a horrible year, and RIMM is one of those perennial stock promotes, always sending out press releases about “moving” X units even though only X-N actually sold … the rest are inventory “pushed” on retailers. Brilliant.

The daily latte may not be toast. Starbucks stock was another early victim of the crash. The shares collapsed. Everyone beat them up last fall, because an expensive latte habit is one of the easiest budget cuts a hard-pressed consumer can make.

The market’s rethinking this one, too. Starbucks stock has now jumped 55% from the lows. Sure, sales and profits are well down. But management is fighting back with cost savings and new initiatives. More than 750,000 people have signed up for Starbucks loyalty cards, triple what the company expected. (And that’s a wireless play too: They give you some free WiFi with your beverage.) The coffee shop has become an important part of many people’s day. Shares in rival coffee chain Peet’s are up about 10% too.

whatever. they are so inept at what they do, they are bound to fail. A photo alone of their nasty bkft sandwiches destroys my appetite. Did you miss even more announced store closings? I’ve been in there, same store sales are down. And McD (which has managed to hold onto market cap through this crisis) is now selling lattes for $1 less. THEIR bkft sandwiches are tasty!

Dotcoms strike back! Shares in most regular retailers have slumped over the past six months, for obvious reasons. Expect more bricks and mortar stores to close as overstretched consumers retrench. But when it comes to online retailers, the story changes. Amazon stock, which tanked initially, has doubled since November. Hype over the Kindle electronic book reader has helped. Online jeweler Blue Nile has also bounced.

me: Blue Nile was shorted into oblivion last winter, of course it bounced. Amazon is another momo–they never make money. Kindle, gimme a break. A friend has the Sony one–causes eye strain worse than a damn LCD. Looks like an Etch a Sketch. No, not kidding. Even has screen artifacts when you “turn the page”. AMZN sends me more stupid emails than ever, even though haven’t bought in months. Desperation.

And look at Netflix – its stock just hit a record high, surging over $40 for the first time. The Internet-based movie rental company is one of the big winners of the recession so far, as consumers stay home and order in movies. And it makes sense: A Netflix subscription, typically about $14 a month, is much cheaper than cable.

sort of wish I were long this … almost did go long Netflix a few years back. always been happy with the service. as for the competition (rental places) they are closing up shop left and right. can’t beat the selection & no late fees. ever.

Oh, RGR (guns) was way up today. Funny how this shill writer skipped over that ‘trend’.

 
Comment by vozworth
2009-03-23 18:15:29

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2009/pr0905.htm

“The authorities have a clear strategy to address the challenges they face. They have already adjusted the exchange rate and put in place tight fiscal and wage policies. The measures already taken and announced are strong and, with resolute implementation, will be sufficient to restore stability. Together with planned structural reforms in key areas, these measures should help return the economy to a higher growth path by 2010-11.”
—-
Welcome to the rally Mr. Orwell.

 
Comment by vozworth
2009-03-23 18:25:52

You want more on the IMF Orwellian World Currency?

jeez ben

 
Comment by BlueStar
2009-03-23 21:22:39

Ya know when I hear all the fuss about budgets and forecasts I like to point out just how absurd the numbers can be. Take the widely acclaimed bi-partisan CBO forecasts for example. What was the Congressional Budget Office estimate last year (2008)? Well I looked it up and they had it pegged at 694 billion deficit. So somehow they now think it’s going to be 3.6 trillion? Well they missed it by a factor of five last year. Who can trust any thing that comes out of the government.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8917/01-23-2008_BudgetOutlook.pdf

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-24 05:11:40

BlackRock and PimpCo are first in line to help out with the toxic asset clearance program.

Comment by Kim
2009-03-24 08:40:13

Glad I am not the only one not seeing 3/24 Bits yet. I’ve had difficulty getting this site to come up all morning for some reason.

 
 
Comment by Reuven
2009-03-24 08:41:59

Tim/Barry’s plan may have had a better chance of succeeding if they didn’t spend the last year eliminating any tax consequence or criminal penalty for mortgage fraud.

We now have:

1. No tax on forgiven mortgage debt — with no investigation required to see if the mortgage application was truthful
2. Foreclosure moratoriums that delay the inevitable, allow people to rent out their houses and pocket the money, and don’t give investors looking at these toxic derivatives a true picture of the number of foreclosures
3. No investigation of truthfulness on applications: not only income, but occupancy requirements.

…all making these toxic assets doubly toxic. Thanks, Congress!

 
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