March 23, 2009

The Days When Equity Could Be Invented Are Gone

The Denver Post reports from Colorado. “A state bill that increases the penalties for violating real estate appraisal laws has cleared the House and awaits Senate action. If approved by the legislature, the bill would triple the maximum prison term and increase sixfold the fines for first-time offenders. Inflated appraisals cause buyers to pay more for a home than it’s worth. When the housing market crashed, many homeowners owed more on their mortgages than the market value and many faced foreclosure when they couldn’t sell.”

“‘We find that a common denominator in an awful lot of the fraudulent activity is bogus appraisals,’ Colorado Attorney General John Suthers said. ‘We wanted to put some more teeth into the fraudulent appraisal law.’”

“Increasing the punishment isn’t likely to stop mortgage fraud, Jim Spray of America’s Mortgage LLC said. The beaten-down housing market has done it on its own. ‘The product’s not out there; the value is not out there,’ Spray said. ‘The days when equity could be invented are gone.’”

The Arizona Daily Star. “For a snapshot of this spiraling housing crisis, head out to Gladden Farms in Marana, where tracts of new homes made for pristine suburban living sit in a dust bowl of unfinished development. Gladden Farms was supposed to be the thriving residential center of Marana’s town core, and during the big housing run homes there couldn’t be built fast enough.”

“But construction in the sprawling, master-planned community…has stopped: Foreclosed homes dot the streets, many residents are upside down on their mortgages, and planned commercial projects are on hold indefinitely. Gladden Farms is facing foreclosure on roughly 625 acres of undeveloped land.”

“Large, two-story homes with multicar garages are surrounded by bare lots. Tumbleweeds and dust blow off the dirt. ‘It’s a total dust bowl,’ said Jennifer Herndon, whose Hallcraft home sits right next to an undeveloped swath of land.”

“She and her husband bought the home in December 2006, just as Tucson’s housing market was peaking, so Herndon is upside down on the property. She said she doesn’t worry about it so much because they bought for the long haul, but she acknowledged that the decline in values has gnawed at her husband.”

“Down the street, Jeff Hodge has many of the same concerns. Dust, he said, collects in his swimming pool, he’s lost a fortune as values drop, and there is no sign of the promised commercial development. Rather than shop at the planned Fry’s that was supposed to be built a few blocks away, he and Herndon make the 10-minute trip to a Bashas’ at Dove Mountain.”

“‘We got left sort of holding the bag,’ he said. ‘I wouldn’t doubt if we’ve lost $100,000 on this.’”

The Arizona Republic. “A Glendale home that sold less than two years ago for $259,000 sold again three months ago for $113,000. A Phoenix home that fetched $190,000 two years ago just went for $45,900. A Queen Creek home sold for nearly $275,000 when it was built in 2005. Last month’s price: $78,000.”

“If there’s an upside to the Valley’s growing foreclosure problem, it’s the number of home bargains now available. Lenders saddled by a growing portfolio of foreclosed properties are selling homes for
prices not seen in metropolitan Phoenix for a decade.”

“Bob Ortega bought a foreclosed home in Queen Creek for $90,000 late last year. Similar homes in the area that aren’t in foreclosure were listed for more than $150,000. But he had to buy a new stove, refrigerator, washer and dryer and then repaint and carpet the house. ‘The last owners must have been mad because they did some real damage,’ he said. ‘It was a big headache, but I think I ended up with a deal.’”

“Unfortunately, he is seeing other foreclosed homes in his neighborhood now selling for $10,000 to $20,000 less than he paid.”

“Hossien Safaie of Keller Williams Arizona Realty said he works to find foreclosed homes for clients that can be fixed up in four weeks and then resold quickly before being undercut in price by new foreclosures. ‘The last foreclosure home I worked with a client to buy and fix up was in north Phoenix,’ he said. ‘It resold in a day for a $60,000 profit.’”

“Some market watchers are concerned about too many investors buying foreclosed homes. ‘It’s great that foreclosure homes are selling and investors are interested,’ said Margie O’Campo de Castillo of Arizona Dream Realty. ‘But too many investors got us into the current mess.’”

From Realty InSites. “Clearly, good vacation-land buying opportunities spring from deep pools of inventory — but beware signs of inventory ‘evaporation’ in some areas already. California, Nevada and Arizona were hard-hit “escape” states that registered significant increases in pending sales in January. San Diego and Bakersfield, in particular, saw stunning increases of about 60 percent.”

“Popular Sedona, Ariz. saw its own remarkable rise. Buyer’s broker Roy Grimm said, ‘Sales took off in February, and Sedona’s already up about 12 percent from this time in 2008. Moreover, pending sales are double this point last year.’”

“Grimm noted Sedona’s median home price had fallen to $341,500 in January — from a peak of $660,000 in 2006. With recent sales, it’s already risen to $451,000. His conclusion? ‘When pent-up demand meets bottom, it’s time to act.’”

The Salt Lake Tribune from Utah. “On Thursday, it had been a year to the day that Becky Hjelm put her condo on the market. In that time, she cut the price by $19,000 and hired a new agent, but the ‘For Sale’ sign is still there.”

“Now she’s concerned that potential buyers are going to be lured away by a $6,000 state incentive aimed at getting the housing market moving. Here’s the hitch: Only newly built, unlived-in homes qualify for the state credit, putting Hjelm and hundreds like her at a disadvantage when they’re trying to move their houses.”

“‘It’s discouraging. It’s not going to help me in my house,’ she said. ‘I’m fortunate that I’m not in a situation where I’m going to lose my home, but a lot of people are and it would be nicer for people who are barely hanging on to their houses and want to get out of them to have this $6,000 motivating buyers to buy their homes.’”

The Deseret News from Utah. “An estimated 10,000-12,000 households are created in Utah each year, but no one knows for certain where they are living. They aren’t building houses: The number of building permits along the Wasatch Front decreased 46.4 percent between January of last year and January of this year. They aren’t buying houses: The number of homes sold in Salt Lake County fell 25 percent between January of last year and January of this year.”

“They aren’t renting: Rental rates along the Wasatch Front decreased 2.3 percent between February of last year and February of this year, which indicates landlords are cutting prices to lure tenants.”

“Where are folks living? Wells Fargo economist Kelly Matthews has a theory: ‘People are moving into their parents’ houses or basements.’”

“Jeff Bulkeley, his wife Amanda and their two young sons feel cramped in their Murray condominium and want a bigger house. However, the family will not move directly into a new house. They plan to live with Bulkeley’s parents in Sandy for a while to stash away more money for the down payment. They have listed the condo. ‘We’re going to pay off all of our bills with (profits from the sale) and whatever’s leftover will be our down payment money,’ said Bulkeley, an apprentice plumber.”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “At 5 percent interest, the total mortgage payment on a median-priced $150,000 home in Las Vegas would be $1,080 a month. Most renters are paying $800 to $1,000 a month. The kicker, said mortgage broker Mark Baker of Meridias Capital in Las Vegas, is the $8,000 tax credit for first-time homebuyers.”

“‘When Realtors were declaring, ‘Now’s a good time to buy,’ six to eight months ago, that only meant they needed a paycheck, Baker said. Consumers saw through that. Now the market really has switched, he said.”

“If someone buys a home at $145,000, even if the value drops to $130,000, it’s still not worth it to ‘walk away’ because they’re not going to find a cheaper place to live, Baker said.”

The Las Vegas Sun. “It’s the scruples question of the day. Maybe of the year. Should I stay in the home I love, or stick it to the bank? Financially, you are able to make your mortgage payments. But if your mortgage is greater than the value of the house, why pay it? You’re throwing good money after bad. Paying the mortgage may be the right and legal thing to do, but not necessarily the smart play.”

“One financial adviser says homeowners, in increasing numbers, are taking an unsentimental view toward their houses — once viewed as the pinnacle of the American dream — and making cold, rational decisions to walk away from legally binding commitments.”

“‘That’s the problem with our society: You have an obligation and yet people walk away. If that happens across the country, we’ll go kaput,’ says Frank Farley, a professor of psychology at Temple University and a former president of the American Psychological Association.”

“But such people, he says, aren’t lacking justification: They are the victims of real estate greed and incompetence in the banking and subprime lending industries, and they see corporate America making similar decisions.”

“The number of homeowners bringing foreclosure on themselves could be staggering: More than 234,000 homes in Nevada — 55 percent of the state’s total — are ‘upside down,’ according to First American CoreLogic. That percentage is the highest of any state. Put a different way: Most properties bought here between 2004 and 2007 are upside down or ‘underwater,’ according to Steve Bottfeld, executive VP of Marketing Solutions, a Las Vegas housing consultant.”

“Steve Schauer, a mortgage specialist with Flagship Financial Group, says that of all the upside-down homeowners he meets, about two-thirds say they’re abandoning their homes. The homeowners who opt to stay for moral reasons are the exception, he says.”

“The beleaguered homeowners, Farley says, are empowered by what they see happening in corporate America, where failing companies unabashedly are lobbying for federal bailouts, pursuing bankruptcy protection or otherwise reneging on loans — anything to survive, morality and ethics notwithstanding.”

“Financial adviser Jeff Ballek, who says he does not advise clients to default, finds it ironic that homeowners with the most conventional and conservative of all loans — 30-year fixed-rate mortgages — and were most committed to homeownership are now the ones who are considering foreclosure as an escape from their undervalued homes. ‘At this point, they’d rather destroy their credit for seven years and start over again,’ Ballek says. ‘I don’t think the average person has a lot of remorse anymore. They just feel like a part of the crowd now.’”




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69 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-23 11:39:44

‘Sales took off in February, and Sedona’s already up about 12 percent from this time in 2008. Moreover, pending sales are double this point last year. Grimm noted Sedona’s median home price had fallen to $341,500 in January — from a peak of $660,000 in 2006. With recent sales, it’s already risen to $451,000′

It’s true that sales are up from the lowest on record in Sedona, and there are a good number of foreclosures that are likely responsible for that. But I would like to see a square footage comparison before I buy into the argument that the median is rising there. If true, it would probably be the only market in the US that is.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-23 12:01:59

If the increasing median is a result of buyers moving up the food chain so to speak, the fact there is liquidity available to take a bigger bite is really disturbing.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-03-23 16:42:28

Whatever. The bottom is clearly in. You missed the bus. The train has left the station. You snooze, you lose. You are hereby priced-out forever. You can rent and just throw away your money. Hasta la vista, baby.

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-03-23 19:32:03

Troll or sarcasm?

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Comment by Eggman
2009-03-23 21:38:57

I vote sarcasm. Too well written for a troll.

 
 
 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-23 12:09:53

they have hippies w crystals there- are they good market timers ?

Comment by 85701 is overrated
2009-03-23 13:35:04

They have vortexes! (vortices?)

 
 
Comment by Steve W
2009-03-23 12:32:33

A 110K increase in median has got to mean that the sales had to be quite low in January (and february). The next few months will sort that one out.

From dream vacation location to home–the Chicago Tribune reported today that Chicago sales dropped 40% YOY and the median down 27%. Nope, no bubble here.

Comment by Kim
2009-03-23 14:37:18

The tin foil hat side of me wishes to point out that they published that in Monday’s paper too - when circulation is way down from the weekends editions. Can’t PO whats left of the REIC advertising dollars, can they?

Comment by Steve W
2009-03-23 14:56:22

Well, they did say that the Illinois Realtors ™ reported these statistics “Monday” so I’ll give the Trib the benefit of the doubt.

This time.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-23 16:36:53

Seems to me that Jan was so low that the seasonal bounce in Feb is being played as “market recovery” by the NARbots. Check this out from the Gainesville Sun:

Staff report

Published: Monday, March 23, 2009 at 1:19 p.m.
Last Modified: Monday, March 23, 2009 at 1:19 p.m.

In February, 106 existing single-family homes were sold in Alachua and Gilchrist counties. That’s down 25 percent from the number sold in February 2008, the Florida Association of Realtors announced Monday — but it’s up from the 73 homes sold in January.

Between February 2008 and February 2009, the median price dipped 23 percent, from $176,400 to $136,000.

The median sales price in January was $183,300.

With such a small sample size, the median is apt to get fuzzy. A better metric is ppsqft or same home sales. I can guarantee you that in GNV, the latter is WAYYYY down.

Also, more slaughter this week on the CRE front: multiple offices up for rent, some rentals have upped the ante from 1 free month rent to 1.5 and even 2 (some are offering 2 for 2 years but I don’t think anyone is biting!!!). Oh, and houses? Gads, they don’t seem to be renting at all.

Comment by In Montana
2009-03-23 18:19:50

Jim Lehrer says it’s from first-time buyers SNAPPING UP cheap houses. Who said PBS isn’t on top of the story. LOL

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-24 09:12:16

When runaway inflation hits, houses WILL rush back up to previous prices. Of course, gas will be $5 a gallon, loaves of bread at close to $10, and no, you salary won’t go up - you’ll just be poor.

But how then can housing prices go back up? Probably via toxic assets being bought up by the Fed/Treasury. Print, Print, Print more money!!

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-03-23 12:07:21

“who says he does not advise clients to default”

Well he “says”… one thing ( wink-wink ) Funny to note these are people w/ 30 yr. FRM’s?

“I don’t think the average person has a lot of remorse any more”

Oh that’s not true! We have a LOT of “remorse”! Like when our favorite sports team gets blown out or when we get stuck w/ a parking ticket or the wife sees whose ‘really’ been sending us emails? This guy clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

 
Comment by Nathan
2009-03-23 12:18:41

Economy taking toll on California budget Share This
By Dan Walters http://www.sacbee.com/walters/story/1719122.html

The weak recovery Taylor projects would lead to stubborn, even increasing, deficits for the next half-decade or so. And political leaders, having fired so many political bullets to get the February deal, could be powerless to handle more decline.

But even Taylor’s dark scenario may be too optimistic, and the state faces a truly historic, semi-permanent economic downsizing.

Consider, for example, this dark, but perhaps realistic, projection by University of California, Santa Barbara, economists:

“The … economy will likely continue to decline for another two years, perhaps longer. We expect the number of California jobs … economic output … retail sales (and) tourism revenues will fall throughout the forecast horizon. There is no measure of economic strength that provides even a glimmer of hope for California’s economy in the near term, none.”

The UC Santa Barbara forecast has California’s unemployment rate, now over 10 percent, nearing 14 percent by next year, which means another half-million workers would join the jobless ranks.

California has a baseline general fund budget of about $110 billion a year. Revenues, without the recently enacted tax increases, are at least $25 billion less. Even the tax increases will erase only about $10 billion of that annual shortfall.

If the UC Santa Barbara forecast and other similarly gloomy forecasts hold true, the Capitol will soon be looking back at Mac Taylor’s dour scenario as the good old days.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-23 12:34:48

Nathan,

In ways, exactly what’s described there probably would have happened with or -without- a massive RE Bubble busting. CA had already reached a saturation point of the Lowest Common Denominator and the bust only made it more undeniably apparent?

Retail sales and tourism is what they’ve been building their economic engine around? I guess I’m just disappointed that even ‘with’ the advent of the internet ( allowing people to live and work just about anywhere ) they ’still’ chose to flock to Cali.

Comment by mikey
2009-03-23 18:19:47

They better be prepared to pay big-time for their CA “Place in the Sun” …or walking. Over-priced POS shacks are just the tip of the problems out there.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-23 20:54:50

Time to close down 1/2 of the colleges and bring back manufacturing to CA….a novel idea

Comment by Mot
2009-03-23 22:06:28

Not In My BackYard! ;-)

Heck, Feinstein is even opposing solar power plants in the desert.

Comment by robin
2009-03-25 03:35:17

Then she’s a fooking nutjob loser.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 12:19:36

So when the realtwhores were shooting out their favorite line, they weren’t telling the truth? However now they are!

“‘When Realtors were declaring, ‘Now’s a good time to buy,’ six to eight months ago, that only meant they needed a paycheck, Baker said. Consumers saw through that. Now the market really has switched, he said.”

“If someone buys a home at $145,000, even if the value drops to $130,000, it’s still not worth it to ‘walk away’ because they’re not going to find a cheaper place to live, Baker said.”

Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-23 12:52:00

Really, how could you expect anything different? They’re salepeople. Resisting salespitches is probably one of THE core competencies of our society.

 
Comment by Carl Morris
2009-03-23 13:31:01

“We were just messing with you before, but now we’re serious…and you can trust us when we’re serious!”

Comment by JimboAC
2009-03-23 16:38:03

Just once I’d like to see some reporters call out an attorney who informs them in the wake of an arrest, “My client is completely innocent and looks forward to being vindicated in court.” You know the way that goes. . . . Five months later, after the client is put under oath and pleads guilty, none of the reporters even thinks to ask the lawyer, “Hey, I thought you told us your guy was innocent!” They’re probably under the mistaken apprehension that a lawyer is obligated to lie for the client and fear being brushed off with something along the lines, “I’m his lawyer; of course I lied to you; what did you expect?” Lawyers are not under any such obligation, though, and shame on the reporters who ever again believe a lawyer who proclaims the innocence of a client who later pleads guilty.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2009-03-23 13:38:06

What if it dropped to $170K ?

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-03-23 15:10:00

That would be negative depreciation.

 
 
Comment by JohnF
2009-03-23 15:20:00

….it’s still not worth it to ‘walk away’ because they’re not going to find a cheaper place to live, Baker said.”

Unless rents decline…..but that could never happen Mr. Baker….or could it….?

Comment by beachmouse
2009-03-25 07:10:26

Rents could certainly decline. But another reason to stick with the house is that if there’s another house that is actually nice enough that you’d want to rent it, then the odds are fair that a landlord will want to run a credit check. And if I was a landlord, given two prospective tennants, one willing to pay $900/month whose credit report indicates that he always pays his housing expenses on time, and one willing to pay $1000/month but who will cheerfully just stop paying for their housing expense simply because they didn’t want to, I’m reting to the tennant that I’m far less likely to have to take to court in order to evict for non-payment of rent.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-23 12:25:15

“Some market watchers are concerned about too many investors buying foreclosed homes. ‘It’s great that foreclosure homes are selling and investors are interested,’ said Margie O’Campo de Castillo of Arizona Dream Realty. ‘But too many investors got us into the current mess.’”

I’m seeing the same thing happening here in Tucson. And they’re the same sort of specu-vestors that we had a few years ago. In some cases, they’re the same people.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-23 12:36:00

Disgusting ( but predictable )

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-23 13:21:28

More evidence still that lots and lots of people are expecting a V-shaped recovery. If they thought the (full to 2005 era) recovery would take longer than a year or two they wouldn’t be jumping in like this.

Has there ever been a time in human history where so many people have been so obsessed with missing a bottom? (houses & stocks) The mania lives!

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-23 13:27:05

I don’t know about other times. Given how many people lost their shirts first in the tech bubble, then again in the housing bubble, there are a huge amount of retirement nest eggs up in smoke. So I suppose people are determined not to let it happen again.

At least that’s what they think. There seem to be no end of people eager to assist in the next round of shearing.

Comment by wolfgirl
2009-03-23 13:56:01

I’m thinking that a lot of people may get desperate to recover money they lost in the dotcom and housing bubbles and take even greater risks.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-23 14:01:08

“So I suppose people are determined not to let it happen again.”

Desperate people with money (or credit) always ends badly.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-03-23 14:24:26

“More evidence still that lots and lots of people are expecting a V-shaped recovery”.

Without a doubt, most people that I talk with are in that category. The worst is over, the sun will come out tomorrow and Americans can get back to the business of shopping.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-23 16:36:02

I refer the V-shaped bottom caller brigade to the news out today that Japan’s real estate market just hit prices not seen since the early 1980s. Perhaps over the long course of history, a 25-year-downturn looks like the left side of a V?

Comment by scdave
2009-03-24 09:15:54

Link Bear ??

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Comment by scdave
2009-03-24 09:14:01

so obsessed with missing a bottom?

Excellent point edgewater….

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 13:25:41

“And they’re the same sort of specu-vestors that we had a few years ago. In some cases, they’re the same people.”

It makes me wonder where are they getting the money?
Fannie & freddie?

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-23 13:45:39

whino,

Me too? Even assuming the “timed” each and every flip/sale/fraud flawlessly, who in their right mind would be lending this go’ round? No one “I” know.

One of the things that’s dawned on me of late was that in many ways, in late mania stages, there must have been a run on “Tulip Bulb CARTS”! When I look at these ridiculously over priced lots and the banks that are left holding the bag… I can only assume that builders just went ahead and -shifted- all of their profit in TO the lot itself!

In so doing ( as they flipped lots back and forth to one another ) they assured the profit was already taken, further leaving these smaller banks out to dry? Actually building out and finishing the house (itself) became less and less of a priority. Any mark-up remaining at the time of sale was just so much gravy.

 
Comment by JohnF
2009-03-23 15:29:02

It makes me wonder where are they getting the money?
Fannie & freddie?

A significant amount of the financing is coming from the FHA.

Around 2010, they’ll probably be the next government agency that will need several hundred billion dollars in bailout money to cover all the 2008 & 2009 loans that go belly up……

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-24 09:27:10

Precisely.

The FHA is stilling handing out candy loans to infesters that only require 3.5% down. I’m sure that all the income documentation is double-checked and that there is no corruption at all going on, just as the rest of the Bubble was perfectly honest! Hahahaha!

And, as stated above, they’ll need a trillion bucks or so in a year as part of one of many more Bailouts.

Gotta keep housing unaffordable, crooks in the money, and responsible people locked out!

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-23 13:00:53

no way first

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-23 11:35:58

I fixed that for ya

Comment by DennisN
2009-03-24 01:39:09

Never bet against the house….

Comment by mikey
2009-03-24 07:05:29

“Never bet against the house….”… or the Gov’t ?

Perhaps..but maybe this time the HouseDebtors, FIRE, tax collectors and speculators all placed TOO MANY HEAVY BETS upon the house and it’s popping out nails, buckling it’s beams, crushing it’s foundations all while the roof is crashing in.

Just like you can run a good horse to win a races, you can also run it to death…or at least break it down in the attempts.

You can’t win them all and maybe the great American Housing Thorough-bred has run it’s best RACES and the gamblers and the gov’t have shot their waggering wads.

Plus you can only FIX so many house or horse races before somebody catches on …and wises up :)

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Comment by bink
2009-03-23 13:08:49

The DC Madam’s house sold for a 62% discount:

Judge OK’s sale of D.C. madam’s house

 
Comment by whino
2009-03-23 13:21:58

“all the upside-down homeowners he meets, about two-thirds say they’re abandoning their homes. ”

“30-year fixed-rate mortgages — and were most committed to homeownership are now the ones who are considering foreclosure as an escape from their undervalued homes.”

This among other reasons like un-employment and builders still building un-needed homes is exactly why prices are going to keep falling. There is also lots of shadow inventory that has yet to hit the market.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-23 14:12:42

It also shows that a lot of people are -finally- realizing some of the stuff we’ve been saying around here for years!

Having “good credit” is only of value IF… you want to get ‘more’ credit! With used cars that are only a few years old and very little mileage are going for next to nothing and there’s very little possibility a home in just about any area/neighborhood/price range is going to appreciate any time soon..?

 
 
Comment by JohnF
2009-03-23 15:25:35

“Now she’s concerned that potential buyers are going to be lured away by a $6,000 state incentive aimed at getting the housing market moving. Here’s the hitch: Only newly built, unlived-in homes qualify for the state credit, putting Hjelm and hundreds like her at a disadvantage when they’re trying to move their houses.”

“‘It’s discouraging. It’s not going to help me in my house,’ she said. ‘I’m fortunate that I’m not in a situation where I’m going to lose my home, but a lot of people are and it would be nicer for people who are barely hanging on to their houses and want to get out of them to have this $6,000 motivating buyers to buy their homes.’”

Just a send few million dollars to the politicians up in the Utah state legislature and you can be included in the program.

Jeez Ms. Hjelm, don’t you know how the game is played……..

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-23 15:57:21

Heh. No mention regarding what her asking price is for the condo. There are new apt/condo buildings sitting around all over Salt Lake, many of them almost completely unoccupied. And lots of apt-condo conversions where sales aren’t going well.

Why do I suppose that she’s asking about 2x over current market?

Comment by Michael Emmel
2009-03-23 16:50:52

This article about selling the condo is a bit fishy they already plan on moving in with mom and dad so I suspect that they will put it on the market for some insane price then default. They are just trying to save face with the reporter. Generally your not going to say well we are moving out of the condo and in with mom and dad and stop making payments.

The fluff about paying off bills and saving the profit was just that fluff.
We still have a long way to go before jingle mail is so accepted that people openly talk about walking away personally around the water cooler.

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-23 16:19:07

‘The last foreclosure home I worked with a client to buy and fix up was in north Phoenix,’ he said. ‘It resold in a day for a $60,000 profit.’

I suppose they could have found a bargain, added value and passed it on. But more likely, they just found a sucker and took his money. Only in RE do people brag about that to the media.

Comment by JohnF
2009-03-23 16:35:32

Seriously……that whole story sounds like a bad late-night infomercial…..

Comment by whino
2009-03-23 20:09:06

Lol!!! And if you take a real close look at the checks those actors hold up to the camara, you can see there are dated in the year 2004! I LMAO every time. :-D

 
 
 
Comment by GH
2009-03-23 17:08:37

Increasing penalties, both criminal and civil in cases of appraisal fraud will only serve to further drive down prices, as appraisers fearful of giving appraisals which later drop in value become more conservative as it would require an appraiser to speculate on future value. I agree there was terrible fraud, but without new appraisal guidelines etc, like considering rental value etc, what really changes?

 
Comment by Leighsong
2009-03-23 18:06:04

OT - HELP!

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

This is an open ended question.

The bank looses on average $$ per foreclosure.

I attempted to find a source with an average and failed miserably.

Note: I realize this varies from each area - location.

Ballpark with ok source - thanks in advance.

Leigh

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-23 18:23:22

Leighsong
Here’s a list of websites for real estate. We’ll be in the market for an REO, so I’ve been collecting resources for data:
realty trac (foreclosures)
foreclosure radar
cyberhomes
1st american core logic
redfin
radar logic
homevalues
property shark

 
Comment by Will
2009-03-24 04:41:15

Leigh,

This will change over time, place, and value of the home and of the mortgage. Best look for a % of mortgage book value lost and then apply that number to a specific dollar value case.

The banks themselves, and those buying mortgage backed securities, need this percentage to put their books in order. But past percentages are way, way too low and nobody knows what this percentage might be once house prices stop falling.

Still, you might see some responsible estimates of the value of underwater mortgages now that the government’s securitized mortgage insurance program is getting underway. Keep an eye on the financial press.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2009-03-23 18:42:02

I hope some one posts this in the bits bucket for Tuesday, read and be prepared to be either livid or very afraid.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/print

Wall Street gets no more of my 401K money.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-23 19:11:09

Mo Money
I posted that article this morning in buckets. Thanks for carrying it forward. That should be required reading for all Americans.

 
 
Comment by jay
2009-03-23 18:58:33

I’m the phoenix guy who offered 77k on a wells fargo bank owned property, it is in north phoenix 85032. anyhow, i have not seen the response from the bank, but my realtor told me they accepted the 77k. anyhow, this house sold for 205k in 2005…never was it worth near that but then thats the bubble. anyhow, i almost bought a condo for 70k in tempe in 2000! now, after my 7700 gov’t rebate on my taxes, this house cost me 69300+fixup costs. exterior is in great condition, interior needs new flooring except bathrooms and kitchen. cabnets are ok, manbe painting. needs new counter in kitchen and applicances. the entire inside needs cleaning and painting! so, i’ll do it over time, no rush as i have been living in a hotel style apartment in phoenix and renting my whole life! now, i will have a house all paid for and cash only. I guess the bubble really worked out great for me in the end, but it sucked being priced out for years! silver lining is i was able to save enough cash to buy outright! now, the inspection to make sure no serious hidden problems! prices are probably not at a bottom, but now even my brother is going to look in the area for a second house to rent! so, over time the low prices will create demand and i don’t want to find myself at the end of the bottom and not able to find a house i love! this one is great for my needs!! thanks to all the housing bubble blogs for saving some of us!

 
Comment by jay
2009-03-23 19:12:20

the bank took my offer of 77k! asking 83k!i needs serious cleaning inside, carpet, appliances, pool cleaned, painting inside. outside is in nice condition, nice size at 1700 sq/ft! 3/2 built in 1970, not block like most! now, inspection time to see if there is anything major i missed or can’t see, if so i’ll hit them up for the costs! buyers are in the drivers seat now! i’ll get $7700 back in the credit and have to hold the house 3 years. no plans to sell in the future as this house sold in 1995 for 86k! may not be a bottom but i almost bought a condo in 2000 for 70k!! so, i’m jumping in now! I have been looking for a year now and started with condos but houses fell so much i had to go for one! in north phoenix off 51! all cash deal!! no payment for me…i saved and rented all these years and now it is paying off! and, i thought i’d be priced out forever!

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-23 19:26:41

jay-
I’m jazzed for you. It sounds like a great home. Any tips on how you found the house? (MLS?, REO website?) Any advice for me, as another all cash forclosure buyer?

 
Comment by climber
2009-03-24 11:40:35

I’m glad it’s working out for you.

I’m still waiting for my opportunity.

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-23 19:31:58

jay-
Wasn’t the turn around time with the bank on “speed dial”. Didn’t you just make your offer last week?

 
Comment by price_bottom_not_yet
2009-03-23 19:37:43

Jay,

You think you’ve got a good deal.. soon your house may be worth 40-50K. But that shouldn’t bother you since no payments left for you! enjoy..

 
Comment by surf2liv
2009-03-24 12:59:16

77k in NPhoex

i hate to burst your bubble that 7k rebate from the govt i think you have to pay it back later…

anybody have a list of the auction of REDC in Mass and NH and what they sold for over that last 3 weeks?

 
Comment by jay
2009-03-25 19:13:26

77k here in phoenix, still waiting to get the bank acceptance back.. they are either taking their time due to all the houses or holding onto mine hoping for a better deal. We will see, if they go for the deal i offered i buy…if they are pulling crap and get someone to pay more…on to the next one!! there are over 1000k coming in zip 85032 in the next 3 months. realtytrac.com is great for info on that !

surf2liv-paying back the money was the prior law, the recent one is not a loan and you don’t have to pay it back. so you get 10% back as a tax credit up to 80k it is not a tax deduction… and it only has to be paid back if you sell in less than 3 years…

awaiting wipeout- i started with realtor.com, looked at some redc auction properties-they were really bad and i don’t like the idea of shill bidders or the guy bidding it up to the reserve. anyhow, the good bank owned on the cheap are gone in less than a week. so, to get the info quick you have to sign up with someone that can have the mls send you the listings as they come up or as they reduce prices. so i had to find the zip code that interested me and then i just have the listings e-mailed daily. then, i have jumped on the one i like…and fast offer in cash. I hear they will go much lower on a cash offer.

 
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