March 26, 2009

Bits Bucket For March 26, 2009

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327 Comments »

Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 04:25:47

Does anyone here know much about Freddie Mac-owned properties? Wife and I like a REO listed by a national RE chain; they say Freddie Mac owns it. Looks never-lived-in. We know it first sold for $560K in 1/08, but records after that diverge. The listing agent told our agent that Countrywide financed it ($417K first, $87K second), Freddie now owns it and along the way, last Fall, someone was under contract to buy it but the sale fell through. I called the house’s builder, who recalled that the buyer re-sold the house almost immediately, which puzzled him; this “flip” is not on RealtyTrac’s or the online tax records.

RealtyTrac shows a sale by the recorded first owner to a buyer (a couple, not an institution) for $282K in 9/08. That’s a suspiciously big drop - half - in less than one year. RealtyTrac also shows a NTS (Notice of Trustee Sale) in 8/08 and the first REO posting is the same date as the supposed sale to the second owner.

Then I went to the online county tax records. Those show the original buyer as the current owner and no transactions after the 1/08 purchase. I asked our agent to find out if Freddie will provide title insurance back to the time of Moses. The lister said Freddie will provide title insurance only if we finance through them or their designee. Sounds like the title ins. described is for the lender’s protection, not mine.

This was so squirrely that I backed away from the property even though I might get it for a very good price per foot, relative to the neighborhood. Does anyone know how such deals usually play out? Can someone pop up later and cloud the title by claiming they bought the house “back when” and Freddie steps back and says, “Beats me - it’s your problem now, chump!” And as for MBSs, is there any way I can know that no other entity believes it currently owns a piece of the original mortgage debt? I would pay cash and don’t want to get screwed because of fraud or other information I don’t know. Freddie is very unhelpful. Has anyone here ever bought a house from them and if yes, do you know if the “ownership” they transfer to you trumps any other potential claim or lien up to the date and time of closing?

Final question, a tin-foil hat one: to prevent a lien/title claim being filed between the time the title company checks the records and the closing of sale being recorded, is there some means of recording something that would alert the records clerks, such as recording the sales contract itself? I assume that title insurance is supposed to protect against such things, but long ago here we heard stories about how rare it is to get a title company to actually pay off - they sounded like a one-way money machine.

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-26 06:20:16

get a lawyer. If you rely on a realtor to cover you legally…then you deserve whatever you get.

 
Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-03-26 06:45:02

Most counties only refresh their data yearly. The online stuff often will not have the previous 12-24 months of records, which is why you go the clerks office and pull the physical file.

Watch. In a year all of the stuff you found will be online.

 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 07:17:57

I think you are really, really, over thinking this.
People buy Fannie and Freddy houses all the time.

 
Comment by ChrisO
2009-03-26 08:59:56

If there’s any question as to clear title, I’d say you should save yourself the headache and stay away from this one. Ultimately, you’d have to have a proper title search done in order to know for sure, but even the threat of a cloud in the title would be too much for me to deal with.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:21:44

Considering how corruption seems to be a goal to be achieved in today’s society, I wouldn’t take any risk that relies upon the honesty of a vast, soulless, Bailed-Out entity like Fanny or Freddie to “do the right thing.”

 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 09:54:53

Thanks for the varied replies.

Blu - I planned to use a lawyer, but not having needed one before, I don’t know the extent to which they’d have me covered.

Muir - You’re right - it is my habit to over-think these things. Especially when it’s the “whole farm.”

Chris - My main concern is that there was fraud along the way. Too many entries don’t match up. But as Muir says, Fannie and Freddie have to get rid of these somehow.

Comment by Xenos
2009-03-26 10:19:55

Get a lawyer to arrange for the title insurance. Your lender will want it, but you want your own lawyer arranging for covering your equity, too.

If they won’t insure the property then don’t buy it.

Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 11:09:51

Xenos - (knowingly holds self out for ridicule) - I’ve even thought about buying a policy from each of two companies. Since there would be no mortgage, I can’t count on any red flags from a lender’s side.

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 11:39:58

“Since there would be no mortgage”

Hmmm, been there.
Now, I know where you are coming from.

I wont criticize. But if you are doing this, make sure that they are TWO companies.
Your local title companies resell to a handful of companies (IIRC)
I do not know what to recommend (I do know how you feel.)
Maybe this: read the chain of title that the lawyer will prepare for the Title company. Contracts stipulate that clean title is a condition for a sale, so if there’s any question, that’s the point to back off.
I bought a property (land) from a lady that had a significant other (girlfriend) on title and they had split. The thing was that they had each changed their names a number of times (religious thing) Of course, I needed a quit claim deed from the former partner, and got back a notarized one. I checked the signature against records that I found online. Most title disputes are fraudulent signatures.
So, I really do know how you feel about this.
If anything, I’d feel more reassured with Fannie/Freddie, bigger fish to sue.
Now, that I know where you’re coming from, a lawyer may calm your nerves.
But having said all that, your still probably over thinking this.
:-)

 
Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 20:10:02

Muir - thanks very much. For most of us, it’s funny how easy it is to postulate in the abstract, but when our own butt’s on the line, we get a lot more picky. Appreciate your input. A lawyer it will be, with title insurance guarantees as wazoo as possible.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-26 11:27:52

Chip, the key is in the type of title insurance you acquire.

Yes, the “typical” policy only covers the lender’s interest. You need “owner’s coverage” as well if there is even a whiff of something funny here.

If you have the right title insurance coverage, you should be ok.

If I were so inclined, I might even use the cloud of doubt as a bargaining chip in negotiating, since it may prevent others from buying the property.

Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 20:13:22

Prime - thanks very much. One of the not-thankable-enough aspects of Ben’s blog is our ability to pop up with real-life right-now questions or problems and to get the feedback of wise, experienced fellow travelers. I love it for that. (Thanks, Ben!)

 
Comment by Chip
2009-03-27 20:26:57

Prime - very late for a rely, but thanks.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 04:31:35

Turbo Tax Timmy is bound to run into some head winds in congress. Too many buffoons tripping all over themselves to get their plans ‘in’. He’ll do his best on an end run I’m sure.

Geithner to Seek Power Over Large U.S. Hedge Funds, Derivatives…

March 26 (Bloomberg) — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner will ask Congress to bring large hedge funds, private- equity firms and derivatives markets under federal supervision for the first time as part of a revamp of U.S. financial rules.

The Treasury chief will present his proposed framework at a House Financial Services Committee hearing in Washington today. Under the new so-called rules of the road, the government would get powers to seize and wind down any financial company big enough to destabilize the banking system.

The Obama administration is counting on public anger over the taxpayer-financed rescues of American International Group Inc., Bear Stearns Cos. and other firms to help it win approval for the changes, which could be the most sweeping since the 1930s. Policy makers want to improve the oversight of the financial system now rather than wait until the crisis is over, administration officials said on condition of anonymity.

“We have a moment now where there is broad-based will to change things that people did not want to change in the past,” Geithner said yesterday in a speech in New York. “We want to begin the process now of trying to build consensus while people recognize and are feeling so acutely the damage caused by those basic failures in regulation.”

Geithner plans to work with Congress to hammer out more details and legislation, the officials said.

It’s unclear how quickly any bills could move through Congress because lawmakers are likely to have their own proposals.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-03-26 05:09:56

This government needs to come up with a “Hippocratic Oath” for themselves. They seriously need a “First, do no harm” type checklist before they open their mouths.

The previous party out of power was seemingly incensed that the previous administration wasn’t yelling about problems so perhaps they are still over-compensating. I’m not sure they realize how much that habit of trumpeting any problem has stuck with them now that they are on the hook for making things worse.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-26 07:44:58

The Law of Unintended Consequences is sure to trump anything that Turbo Tax Tim and his braintrust can slap together.

Whatever they do, amazingly bad things will show up down the road, IMO.

Since when did the Eddie Haskell of Finance obtain omniscience?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-26 11:55:56

He does look a little like Eddie, doesn’t he?

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-26 05:21:56

“The Obama administration is counting on public anger over the taxpayer-financed rescues of American International Group Inc., Bear Stearns Cos. and other firms to help it win approval for the changes…”

But the past two days they’ve been trying to arrest that anger. So which is it? They don’t want people so angry that Wall St. gets spooked, but angry enough to cede the gov’t more power?

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 06:18:17

Given the choice, they’ll take the power.

 
Comment by Plaid
2009-03-26 09:40:10

The anger will help Obama get rid of the Bush tax cuts —- Who will defend those tax cuts? Rush Limbaugh himself got over $1.5 million a year benefit from those tax cuts.

These “conservatives” who rail about “freedom” are really just trying to gull the rubes into opposing Obama’s plans to raise taxes on the rich. The anger is Obama’s weapon against all that.

Comment by CrackerJim
2009-03-26 11:24:06

“Rush Limbaugh himself got over $1.5 million a year benefit from those tax cuts.”

What is your source for this statement?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 06:07:26

Out of the frying pan — too little oversight of financial firms — and into the fire — government takeovers without limit…

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-26 10:52:11

Without limit?

If they’re going to go the takeover route, they’ve been moving mighty slow.

The current administration seems more afraid of the possible backlash from the boogeyman called “nationalization” (real, partial, temporary, or imagined) than they are worried about appearing consistent, knowledgeable, or producing a timely/workable result.

 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-03-26 06:30:35

I think they are afraid that there is another Long Term Capital about to fail.

The Feds now know the deals made with AIG/Goldman/etc., they can probably estimate the rest. They must be convinced there is more than one players about to fold.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 06:42:21

I guess if they take over all the firms they believe are about to fail, then they will be able to preemptively hide the failure before it occurs, the way they did with Fannie, Freddie, AIG, etc, etc, etc?

Comment by rainmayun
2009-03-26 07:14:13

There’s only so long that elephant can hide under the living room rug until someone trips over it.

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Comment by WAman
2009-03-26 07:44:58

Was it you Professor Bear that I heard talking on Fresh Air last night on NPR? Did anyone else hear this? This person said that he traded derivatives for Morgan Stanley in the 1990’s and now is a Professor at the U of San Diego. He also said there were $55 trillion in credit default swaps. Is true?

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-26 11:15:35

I heard it — he gave some good historical perspective on how the derivative market grew so large.

(It was Frank Partnoy, BTW, and is available on Fresh Air’s site.)

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:35:48

That’s the goal.

Hide EVERYTHING off the books to keep the nation appearing to be solvent. Then, pump up the money supply with lots of printed money. Run-away inflation will lure suckers back into the market, wipe out savers and prudent people, and stabilize housing prices at some unaffordable level while we wait an eternity for wages to increase (which they won’t thanks to slave labor in other nations - yeah for globalization!)

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Comment by Shizo
2009-03-26 09:52:07

That has to be the most accurate in your face summary of what is happining, that I have read to date. It sounds like a bad “B” rated film… yet we are living it!

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-26 10:09:41

I don’t buy into the hyperinflation argument, though I agree they’re trying hard to get there. How can you have runaway inflation when people are broke? It seems to me that, in order to chase prices higher, the money needs to be in the people’s hands (too much money chasing too few goods). You can pump money into banks all you want, but unless they start handing it out to deadbeats, it does nothing to pressure prices.

Now, if they (government) start issuing checks to every single citizen (helicopter drops is the term I think you all use), then perhaps it’s a possibility. Everything I’ve read about hyperinflation suggests it’s actually a phenomenon, something that cannot be orchestrated- but instead just happens for reasons that are never completely clear. I’m not confident that our inept leaders can punch their way out of a wet paper bag, much less pull us out of this deflationary spiral/liquidity trap by inflating it all away.

 
Comment by ZEKEinVABeach
2009-03-26 10:49:04

Zimbowie may disprove that theory.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-26 11:28:21

“Zimbowie may disprove that theory.”

Who’s Zimbowie? Or, are you talking about Zimbabwe? I think FPSS already illustrated the stark differences between the US situation and that of Zimbabwe, no?

 
Comment by Shizo
2009-03-26 13:41:39

Those “inept” leaders wield power beyond our wildest imaginations. I do believe they will over inflate our volume of currency, it is just a matter of time before the destruction of money slows to the point they are issuing more than they realize. Ben B boy Fakie & Co. has come out and said we have an exit plan for inflation when we get to that point. We all know how rounds 1 & 2 went (dot.bomb & home/credit bubble)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 15:28:57

I think FPSS already illustrated the stark differences between the US situation and that of Zimbabwe, no?

It’s like beating your head against a stonewall. Give it up, GB; there’s no use convincing people who simply refuse to see what’s as simple as daylight.

 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-03-26 07:54:50

A lot of the new problems will be in the same organizations that they have already bailed out, but in lending areas that haven’t crashed yet - commercial real estate as has been stated here many times, Alt-A and prime arm resets and, my personal fave, student loans.

New stuff? I’d like to see what the remaining pension funds would be required to do under their funding rules if they marked all their toxic waste to market values.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-26 11:40:12

“and, my personal fave, student loans.”

Polly, why is this your personal favorite? I thought almost all student loans were already guaranteed by the government. Is that not the case? I tried to search for this online but didn’t find any good data.

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Comment by ChrisO
2009-03-26 09:03:27

I guess it all works as long as the Chinese and the oil sheikdoms are willing (and able) to keep lending the government money.

We’ve had a tech bubble and a housing bubble. Are we now embarking on a “government bubble”?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:38:37

Dollar Bubble.

Last one, and biggest of all (double the debt in 8 years, now double it again in 4 years… I guess next we’ll double it yet again in 2 years?!), and when it blows, we go down with it.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-03-26 09:52:35

Thank God for the Communists and Arabs. Without them we would have to pay for our government and work for a living. Who knew they would come to be our best friends!

 
Comment by Shizo
2009-03-26 09:58:18

FED is purchasing treasuries… so it stopped working a month ago.

The next bubble is weed. We will literally grow money on trees soon, to hand over a large chunk to the state for solvency. Other states will hop on the bus and rake it in. Others will refuse and go down in flames, much like the weed will do in millions of bowls accross the US.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 04:43:40

Roubini Says Stocks Will Drop as Banks Go ‘Belly Up’ (Update1)
By Michael Patterson and Simon Kennedy

March 26 (Bloomberg) — U.S. stocks will fall and the government will nationalize more banks as the economy contracts through the end of 2009, said Nouriel Roubini, the New York University professor who predicted last year’s economic crisis.

“The stock market is a bit ahead of the real macroeconomic and financial news,” Roubini, a professor at NYU’s Stern School of Business and the chairman of consulting firm Roubini Global Economics, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in London today. “We’ll have some major banks going belly up that will need to be taken over.”

The global equity rebound in March that sent the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index to its best monthly advance in 17 years is a “bear-market rally” and U.S. Treasury yields will “remain relatively low” as investors flock to the safest assets, Roubini said. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s new plan to remove toxic debt from financial companies won’t be enough for insolvent banks, he said.

Roubini’s outlook contrasts with predictions this week from Templeton Asset Management Ltd.’s Mark Mobius and Traxis Partners LLC’s Barton Biggs, who said that equities are poised to rally as government efforts to revive the economy and banking system begin to work. Investors are “way too optimistic” about the prospects for a recovery in the economy and earnings, Roubini said.

The S&P 500 surged 7.1 percent on March 23 after Geithner unveiled a plan to finance as much as $1 trillion in purchases of illiquid real-estate assets, using $75 billion to $100 billion of the Treasury’s remaining bank-rescue funds. The government is conducting stress tests of banks to determine how much more capital each will need.

Stress Tests

Roubini said the stress tests will reveal that some banks need to be taken over and have their good and bad assets separated before being sold to the private sector. He estimates loan and securities losses in the U.S. will reach $3.6 trillion.

Critics of Geithner’s plan including Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, a professor at Princeton University, say the government should take over banks loaded with devalued assets, remove their top management, and dispose of the toxic securities. Sweden adopted the temporary nationalization approach in the 1990s.

“Some banks are going to have to be nationalized,” said Roubini. “It’s going to be bumpy ahead of us.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 06:08:35

“The stock market is a bit ahead of the real macroeconomic and financial news,”

And what else is new, Professor Roubini?

Comment by skroodle
2009-03-26 06:32:58

I love it when two professors duke it out!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 06:38:22

There’s nothing to be duked.

Look at S&P earnings and the consequences of the unemployment rate on future earnings. It’s way out of whack.

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Comment by packman
2009-03-26 06:42:40

Yep. Check out the earnings curve with today’s update - they’re plummeting quite fast. Unemployment shows no sign of slowing its climb - March is in like a lion, and is remaining a lion. No lamb this time, even for the weather.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 06:39:11

I have disagreed with little if anything Roubini has said. The professors I disagree with generally work in Southern California and until recently were frequently heard to make remarks to the effect of, “Real estate always goes up.” Lately they have strangely morphed into the gloomiest of gloomsters.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-26 06:58:33

Those profs have to fund their psuedo-bohemian lifestyles. (talk poor, dress poorer, but vacation all summer in the south of France)

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-26 10:21:19

“The stock market is a bit ahead of the real macroeconomic and financial news,”

Understatement of the year award.

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-26 04:58:47

And still NO help for people like me trying to keep Con Ed from taking me to court and cutting off my electricity. Good going Timmy boi!

————————————————————–
Roubini said. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s new plan to remove toxic debt from financial companies won’t be enough for insolvent banks, he said.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-26 07:10:50

Con Ed has to take you to court to cut off your electricity? Why? Have you declared bankruptcy?

Comment by Skip
2009-03-26 07:26:29

Rental and Housing laws in NY are pretty complex.

Check out the Real Estate Q&A column in the Real Estate section of the NY Times online.

Todays gems include:

Can a Landlord Charge for Heat and Hot Water?
March 25, 2009 11:34am

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-26 09:27:47

No just behind……I still have a IRA which i have been scared to take too much money out of…so i beg and plead for work…just to have something as a cushion…. I own my moms house with my 2 brothers so a BK is out of the question

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 10:43:48

BK isn’t out of the question just because of the house. Just leave the house out of it.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 13:06:57

Sorry to hear it, aNYCdj. Good luck. Hope things work out well for yer.

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-03-26 11:16:38

Pay your bills! It costs them money to make electricity.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-26 11:31:52

Got a job?????? You just don’t get how many employers are turning their backs on smart people today. Show any initiative or out of the box thinking and its NO job for you.

There really is no such thing as overqualified in America UNLESS you all you have to offer is a total Dead End job then you need to hire a Dead End employee.

 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 05:31:13

Repost from last night. First to make it to the dirty dozen:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090326/BIZ/903260414/1001/State+jobless+rate+up+to+12+

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-26 07:21:03

When reading that it’s important that one remember the “jobless recovery” of 2002-2005. The news ran those headlines until the housing bubble went supernova and they were blinded by the light.

The hole is deeper than 2001-2002, so how long will it be this time? How many consumer oriented businesses can outlast it?

The depths get the headlines, the duration does the damage.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:43:35

Has anyone else seen all the “The Depression is good for yah!” BS news stories running around online in the past few months? Here’s a summary of a bunch I’ve seen:

- Don’t bother spending too much time looking for a job after being let go since there aren’t that many, and without a job, you can take more time to “have fun.” (Um, isn’t life more fun when you have a job to, you know, afford food and other fun stuff?)

- This recovery, if/when it happens, will be jobless, so go out and start your own business despite the horrible business environment and lack of credit for funding. (Yeah, sure…)

- Losing your well-paying job and getting a new one for half the salary that lets you do cool stuff like clean toilets is good for yah since it lets you better “connect” to people. (What?!)

- Working weekends in addition to workdays is good for you because it reduces your stress during the workweek (huh?!)

It really looks like the media is trying to condition people for their new role as dirt-poor, ex-consumers wtih no hope for the future!

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 12:40:31

I’m tempted to ask these nimrods “If unemployment is so great, why don’t you take a lay-off, be out of work for a year or two, then report back on how it works out for you?”

Thie “move where the work is” stuff ain’t playing. Nobody, anywhere is hiring…….

Since it appears that we are well on our way to having the paychecks of the great unwashed masses cut to the $10-15/hr range, I guess we can calculate how far real estate prices need to fall.

The government is busting their a$$ trying to fix the banks so they can loan money. They are working the wrong problem…….INCOMES are the problem (the lack thereof, or loss of buying power over the past 10-15 years)

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Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 13:22:58

“Thie “move where the work is” stuff ain’t playing. Nobody, anywhere is hiring…….”

No doubt. When I blow this pop stand one of my first stops was going to be South Carolina, but they’re nipping at our heels in the unemployment department lately. Will things be better in a couple years there?? Who knows.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 14:38:07

“Since it appears that we are well on our way to having the paychecks of the great unwashed masses cut to the $10-15/hr range,”

Appears? We’ve been there for over a decade. Where have you been?

And BTW, that’s considered good money, even though you can’t live off it.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-03-26 16:18:19

Spot on, ecofeco. In many circles $10-15/hr with some bennies and some security is considered a *very* good job.

 
Comment by robin
2009-03-27 00:08:34

And you can buy a 760 square foot condo in Modesto - :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-03-26 06:19:31

Unemployment Rate 19.5% in Tunica County, MS
Reported by: Tenikka Smith
Email: tsmith@myeyewitnessnews.com

TUNICA COUNTY, MS — The nation’s money mess continues to put people out of work. It is hitting especially hard in Tunica County, Mississippi. The county one labeled as the poorest in the nation, has a current unemployment rate of 19.5 percent. The national average is just above eight percent.

County leaders say a big reason for the jump is a slump in the casino industry. With less revenue, many casinos were forced to make layoffs and cutbacks.

http://www.myeyewitnessnews.com/news/local/story/Unemployment-Rate-19-5-in-Tunica-County-MS/qPBS3IaAxEikFghdKvf9IA.cspx

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 06:19:47

U.S. Jobless Rolls Increase to Record 5.56 Million (Update1)
By Bob Willis

March 26 (Bloomberg) — The number of people collecting U.S. jobless benefits rose to a record 5.56 million, indicating more Americans are spending longer periods out of work. Initial claims topped 600,000 for an eighth straight time.

Total benefit rolls jumped by 122,000 in the week ended March 14, from 5.44 million the previous week, the Labor Department said today in Washington. Initial jobless applications last week rose 8,000 to 652,000, in line with forecasts.

Job cuts are spreading from companies to government agencies including the U.S. Postal Service and health-care providers. Rising unemployment means it may be harder for the Obama administration to save or create the 3.5 million jobs targeted in its recovery plan.

“The deterioration in the labor market has been swift and large,” Ryan Sweet, a senior economist at Moody’s Economy.com in West Chester, Pennsylvania, said before the report. “A double-digit unemployment rate now seems unavoidable.”

A Commerce Department report today showed that the economy shrank more than previously estimated in the fourth quarter, at a 6.3 percent annual rate. That compares with the median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News of a 6.6 percent drop in gross domestic product.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-26 06:27:29

The real unemployment rate, under employment, drop off the radar numbers, must be staggering if this article is the govt.’s version. Add all the small businesses hurting, the underground economy, 1099 folks,and I’d say the “D” word.

Comment by packman
2009-03-26 06:45:12

Actually I think this is the ADP report, not government. Certainly the government’s monthly report for March will be dismal though. I would guess either 8.5 or 8.6%.

Hey CBO - how’s that “pessimistic” 9.4% peak looking? Sweating yet?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-26 07:18:24

CBO sweating it? You gotta be kidding. Those folks have lifetime employment, no risk of layoff, sweet salaries and fantastic benefits.

And like pretty much all professional prognosticators, their compensation isn’t affected by the accuracy of their forecasts.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 06:49:18

U-6 (broadest measure of unemployment) is already at 16%.

We are rapidly approaching GD1 conditions.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:44:51

Ah, but we still have a currency to destroy! That’s next on the list… and maybe then a shooting war with somebody…

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 14:43:58

A recent (approx 2 months ago) AOL straw poll of roughly 50,000 people reported 27% unemployment.

My own small polls have shown 30% UE.

Here’s the scary part…. that was a few months ago.

The jobless recovery of 2003 was, as someone else posted here, forgotten in the housing bubble.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-26 07:01:42

“…in line with forecasts.”

You read this phrase a lot in March 2009, but what does it mean?

Does it mean were at a turning point? Or does it simply mean that Winston has learned to get out in front of the numbers?

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-26 07:36:15

EXAMPLE:

Look at this ridiculous AP story title:

Economy dips at faster pace, but better than expected- AP

So what does that mean? The economy isn’t declining as fast as a bunch of shills are paid to say it will?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 08:04:50

The MSM never asks these questions. Conventional journalism is simply taught to parrot things not think about anything.

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Comment by measton
2009-03-26 09:41:10

Conventional journalism is simply TOLD to parrot things not think about anything.

Thinking,analysis, and following a story cost money.
Thinking and analysis anger big business and gov.
Thus management cuts these things out and gets its journalists to parrot.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mikey(2)
2009-03-26 07:32:58

Where’s Manny? How does this figure into the great turnaround that is so obvious from the recent market rally, increase in durable goods, and increased February housing sales?

And these, no doubt, are whitewashed numbers. Go buy a house Manny, I dare ya.

Comment by Manny
2009-03-26 09:05:46

Unemployment’s at 16%? Ohhh kay.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-26 11:44:17

Yes…. unemployment is at 16%.

http://tinyurl.com/3gna7

Anything else (wo)Manny?

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Comment by Manny
2009-03-26 14:02:13

Do you get a free replica black UN helicopter when you sign up for an account there?

 
 
 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-26 09:07:03

Economics 101: Unemployment rate is a lagging indicator.

Any other questions?

Comment by polly
2009-03-26 11:08:07

Unemployment has always been a lagging indicator in the past. However, we have never had a recession before where the economy before we started it was 70% consumer spending. This time, unemployment is creating a much bigger feedback loop (loose job, spend less, businesses that you used to patronize have less money, that business contracts and lays off people, etc.) than it has in previous recessions.

By the way, in the last recession, I didn’t get laid off until nearly a year after the recession was over. The fact that we are still in recession months after the serious unemployment increases started means that previous patterns won’t help much in predicting how this one goes.

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Comment by Manny
2009-03-26 11:37:44

So you’re saying this time it’s different? Right. Where did I hear that before?

 
Comment by Cosgrove
2009-03-26 14:22:51

Sometimes things really are different. You have to examine the factors independently. Is this is cyclical recession or is this a credit-cycle driven depression? My bet is on the latter.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-03-26 14:21:28

Weak strawman and poorly executed misdirection Manuel. Nobody suggested it wasn’t a lagging indicator now back to the fact; unemployment is at 16%.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 06:28:55

I am no expert on commercial property lending, but I know an ominous sign when I see one. A chart that accompanies this lead WSJ article shows the “delinquency rate on commercial mortgages packaged and sold as bonds” from 1999 to the present.

The difference between the dynamics of the delinquency rate during the last turn of the cycle and the current one is striking. The delinquency rate on these bonds rose from about 0.5 percent at the beginning of 1999 to a peak level around 2.0 percent at the beginning of 2004 before gradually tapering off back to under 0.5 percent by the beginning of 2006, and settling into a trough of about 0.3 percent by the third quarter of 2007. The average annual rate of increase during the uptrend part of the previous cycle was thus 2.5 percent over 5 years, or 0.5 percent per year rate of increase in delinquencies.

By contrast, the delinquency rate has increased from 0.3 percent in 3Q 2007 to a recent level of 1.8 percent (1Q 2009), an increase of 1.5 percent spread over 6 quarters (1.5 years), which translates into an annual rate of increase of 1 percent per year — twice as rapid as the previous cycle. There is no sign this rate of increase is slowing down, and in fact, it is accelerating, with the delinquency rate on securitized commercial mortgages having doubled since September 2008.

The rapid ascent of commercial mortgage delinquencies bears a very close resemblance to the rate of increase in residential mortgage foreclosure rates. Perhaps it is time for a commercial property delinquency moratorium akin to the foreclosure moratorium in residential property?

Wall Street Journal
* COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE
* MARCH 26, 2009, 8:29 A.M. ET

Commercial Property Faces Crisis
Delinquency Rate at 1.8%, Near Peak of Last Recession; Parallels to S&L Debacle
By LINGLING WEI

Commercial real-estate loans are going sour at an accelerating pace, threatening to cause tens of billions of dollars in losses to banks already hurt by the housing downturn.

The delinquency rate on about $700 billion in securitized loans backed by office buildings, hotels, stores and other investment property has more than doubled since September to 1.8% this month, according to data provided to The Wall Street Journal by Deutsche Bank AG. While that’s low compared with the home-mortgage delinquency rate, it’s just short of the highest rate during the last downturn early this decade.

Some experts say it now looks as if the current commercial real-estate slump will rival or even exceed the one in the early 1990s, when bad commercial-property debt played a big role in dragging the economy into a recession. Then, close to 1,000 U.S. banks and savings institutions failed. Lenders took about $48.5 billion in charges on commercial real-estate debt between 1990 and 1995, representing 7.9% of such debt outstanding.

Since late 2007, a total of 47 banks and savings institutions have failed, of which a dozen or so had unusually high commercial-mortgage exposure. Foresight Analytics in Oakland, Calif., estimates the U.S. banking sector could suffer as much as $250 billion in commercial real-estate losses in this downturn. The research firm projects that more than 700 banks could fail as a result of their exposure to commercial real estate.

Comment by packman
2009-03-26 08:09:33

Given the unemployment has already skyrocketed past the S&L recession, there’s no reason to be surprised when commercial RE does as well. This recession is leaving all others in the dust - by any measure - save for the GD (so far).

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 06:37:02

Norway’s krone: the new safe haven currency?
By Peter Garnham
Published: March 18 2009 18:31 | Last updated: March 18 2009 18:31

The Swiss National Bank’s decision to intervene to weaken the franc has left currency investors with one less haven from the financial crisis.

Its move comes at a time when there are also questions surrounding the future haven status of two other leading currencies: the dollar and the yen.

While the dollar has enjoyed a liquidity premium amid the current financial turmoil, many investors expect it to lose its allure as the full impact of large-scale US fiscal and monetary loosening filters through.

Simon Derrick at Bank of New York Mellon says: “The dollar has clearly been supported by haven flows during the current crisis.

“But, in the longer-term, the sheer scale of US fiscal spending and the lack of international capital available to support it represents a direct threat to the dollar’s strength.”

The other main beneficiaries during the current crisis, the Swiss franc and the yen, have both lost their haven status in recent weeks.

The Swiss franc has been driven lower by the SNB, which last week intervened to sell the currency, saying its recent appreciation represented an unwelcome tightening in monetary conditions.

Meanwhile, the yen has been undermined by a series of data showing a steep downturn in Japan’s export-driven economy.

This has helped stoke expectations that the Bank of Japan will follow the SNB and intervene to weaken its currency.

So where do currency investors turn now? One answer could be Norway.

David Bloom at HSBC says “The ultimate haven currency in our view is the Norwegian krone. “It’s probably the best currency in the world.”

EDITOR’S CHOICE
Dollar in favour as eurozone stutters - Mar-17
Swiss vow to act again if franc rises too high - Mar-16
View of the Day: Seek safety in Norway’s krone - Mar-16
Swiss franc plunges as SNB intervenes - Mar-12
Short View: Cheaper currency - Mar-12

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 07:09:23

While the NOK is attractive, I wouldn’t listen to anything these d*mbass analysts say. They are not paid if they go wrong.

Only people who have their own money at stake know the drill.

That having been said, I leave it as an Econ 101 exercise as to what happens if a lot of hot money enters Norway chasing yields, and then hightails it out of there afterwards.

Hello, Thailand! Hello, Malaysia!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 07:10:25

They are not paid if they go wrong.

Sorry, I meant: They are still paid if they go wrong.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-03-26 08:52:38

FBSS, you made a mistake.

50 lashes!

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 09:17:56

Oooh, spank me, baby! ;-)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 12:24:55

LOL!

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 08:31:42

Given Norway’s positive trade balances in fish and oil, the NOK looks relatively attractive compared to currencies of debtor nations, but your point is taken with respect to the risk of bubble and bust in a small nation’s currency. The odd thing to me is that the dollar climbed so strongly against the NOK over the past half year; any thoughts on how long that trend can last?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 06:41:46

Nice to see California has so much extra dough laying around they can waste on important things like this…

California ‘Cool’ Paints Initiative Ugly, Lazy
By Drew Winter
WardsAuto.com, Mar 24, 2009 11:41 AM

If California regulators get their way, auto makers may soon be forced to rewrite a cliché from the Ford Model T era and start telling customers they can have any color they want as long as it isn’t black.

Some darker hues will be available in place of black, but right now they are indentified internally at paint suppliers with names such as “mud-puddle brown” and are truly ugly substitutes for today’s rich ebony hues.

So buy a black car now, because soon they won’t be available or will look so putrid you won’t want one. And that’s too bad, because paint suppliers say black is the second- or third-most popular vehicle color around the world.

The problem stems from a new “cool paints” initiative from the California Air Resources Board. CARB wants to mandate the phase-in of heat-reflecting paints on vehicle exteriors beginning with the ’12 model year, with all colors meeting a 20% reflectivity requirement by the ’16 model year.

Because about 17 other states tend to follow California’s regulatory lead, as many as 40% of the vehicles sold in the U.S. could be impacted by the proposed directive, suppliers say.

The measure is aimed at reducing carbon-dioxide emissions and improving fuel economy by keeping vehicles cooler on sunny days and decreasing the amount of time drivers use their air conditioners.

The rationale goes like this: Vehicle AC units sap engine power and hurt fuel economy. If vehicle paint and glass reflect more heat, car interiors will be cooler. That means drivers will use their AC units less, the compressors won’t have to work as hard and auto makers will be able to use smaller AC units in the future.

Comment by Skip
2009-03-26 08:00:46

Wait a minute…aren’t all those shiny cars going to be really blinding in the summer time when your driving down the road?

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-26 08:11:39

OMFG. Just when you thought the CA legislation couldn’t get any stupider.

 
Comment by Cassandra
2009-03-26 08:22:03

This is so wrong. I don’t know where to begin.

From experiments I’ve done in physics class, I’ve found that the color of the paint has relatively little to do with the heat retained, as the color is only in the visual spectrum. More important was the type of paint,and the substrate it was applied to.

Second, from my own extensive observations, driving the same route, year after year, keeping extensive records, use of the a/c has a negligible, even unmeasurable effect on fuel consumption. At least this was my experience over 100,000 miles of all season driving my Honda CRX. In both winter and summer it invariably got exactly the same 38mph, at a constant 85mph, 2 hours run time. (yes, a few traffic laws may have been violated)

Far more important in my opinion are traffic conditions. And this is something that government might actually be able to do something about.

Also, $4/gallon gas has far more effect on fuel consumption than anything else, in my opinion.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-03-26 08:47:41

Thanks for sharing your analysis and records, Cassandra (or shall I call you Speedy?)

My 2008 Nissan Altima has a black dashboard. I mentioned to the salesman when we got in for the test drive that I would have to get a different interior color because of the Texas heat. He had me touch it and pointed out that in the minute or so we had been in the car the interior was cool and comfortable, even though it was late afternoon on a hot sunny August day. He said it was some kind of new material or paint that was being used by several of the automakers (including some US ones making pickup trucks).

 
Comment by james
2009-03-26 09:20:59

The increase in aerodynamic drag says use AC for cooling at speeds over 40 MPH; according to the engineers on the hybrids.

We have had a couple marketing group meetings with Ford people with our hybrid purchase. That was one of the questions about getting maximum fuel efficiency.

Hope to see some of the supercapacitors breaking into the commercial hybrid market soon. Might be able to push the mpg up into the 70mpg range on a prius like vehicle. Recovery from breaking will be better and possibly have the cars run all electric to 40mph.

Wish we were doing exotic materials research to try to improve the gas engine efficiency. Might be getting to the point where more ceramic components even though they wear out quicker become worthwhile. You know, some crappy heat conductor so you lose less heat through the sleeves, cylinder head and pistons. Make it an easier to maintain design so you can pull it fast. Run the engine at higher compression and try to achieve higher temperatures.

Probably a pipe dream but is there anything else to do but try?

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 12:49:35

Is anybody doing anything with small-displacement, turbocharged engine in hybrids? Seems to me that the performance characteristics would compliment each other.

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Comment by Nudge
2009-03-26 16:53:02

XGSF:

Perhaps you mean something like a turbocharged 990cc Honda Insight? Here are a few:

http://www.lhtperformance.net/Turbo/Turbo_Samples/Insight.htm

http://www.seattleeva.org/index.php?title=User:Rjf/Willies_Red_Rocket

(longtime lurker, infrequent poster)

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-26 09:35:28

Once while shopping for a new car, I walked my wife through the dealer’s lot on a sunny but mild day. I demonstrated the difference. We could not keep our hands on the roof of a dark car for even a few seconds without the body’s normal reaction kicking in. We could keep our hands on a nearby white car indefinitely.

I still disagree with what CARB is doing. Like any government agency, CARB looks for every possible way to increase its control over the populace. In a few years, cops in Cali will probably have the authority to pull you over and write a ticket if they see all the windows rolled up and the temp is less than 80.

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2009-03-26 09:47:58

Wow.

I grew up in the desert. We had a white car.

You know what: every place we parked it was asphalt. Black asphalt. Every place we drove, same thing. Black top.

I think we’d be better off outlawing black ashphalt. Yep. That’s the ticket.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 12:55:35

Memo to self: Invent white asphalt. B.S. the CARB into mandating it.

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Comment by doug-home
2009-03-26 14:11:00

Lawrence berkeley lab scientists that invented cool roofs and cool car paint are already working on it. Its the infrared that is invisible that you want to reflect

 
 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:49:11

After the Cap and Trade tax comes into play, we’ll dream of $4 a gallon gas as the “good old days.”

 
Comment by Jon
2009-03-26 10:04:10

No way you got 38 mpg at 85 mph in a CRX unless you are only counting the downhills.

 
Comment by Cowtown
2009-03-26 10:56:36

That may be true, but I still contend that black vinyl car seats retain at least 123% of all solar energy they absorb, especially if you’re wearing shorts.

Comment by Skip
2009-03-26 11:37:55

Ouch! That brings back bad memories from high school.

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Comment by Cassandra
2009-03-26 13:05:09

Having grown up in the Phoenix area, I’ll grant you that vinyl seats can be kind of rough, especially in shorts. I especially disliked the old basket weave pattern that was routinely branded into the back of my legs.

123%? maybe a conservative measure.

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Comment by jrm1493
2009-03-26 19:46:43

I believe you and here is the reason you got the same mileage:

In the winter, when you didn’t use the a/c the density altitude is much lower (cooler, drier air) and therefore given the same engine rpm the throttle is slightly more closed than in the summer, resulting in more parasitic drag on the engine in the form of a more restricted intake.

In addition, gasoline motors are typically most thermodynamically efficient at about 40% of maximum output, and even at 85mph you were probably only around 25-30%, even on an older CRX. In the summer, with high density altitude, the engine would be working “harder” (closer to the peak efficiency) as well as have less intake restriction due to the more open throttle plate. This is of course offset by the couple horsepower it takes to turn the a/c compressor.

This effect is somewhat mitigated in modern engines that have a throttle by wire (not your CRX) but the ability to do this is limited as a high manifold pressure at low RPM increases stress on the engine’s rotating assembly and head gaskets. It is also quite difficult to do a “lean burn” where you run a high air/fuel ratio because of the EPA - lean burn is very efficient but it kills catalytic converters (and pistons if they aren’t designed properly). In other countries lean burn is an option but not here because of emissions.

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 13:09:04

“….40% of the vehicles sold in the US could be impacted……”

You mean 100%. These stupid “blue state” mandates keep getting crammed down the throats of all 50 states, because manufacturers don’t want to build cars to one set of regs for the Cali and NE Corridor markets, and others to a different set of regs in flyover country. The CARB knows this.

I personally would have liked to have seen the Big 3 say one time, “Since you guys keep coming up with these crazy mandates, and we don’t sell any cars in Cali and the Northeast anyway, we’ll just quit selling cars in those markets.”

 
Comment by Leighsong
2009-03-26 16:10:38

Good Lawd,

Please send a lightning bolt in their general direction, but don’t hurt em.

Amen.

Leigh

P.S. Humbly I ask, may this bolt illuminate their grey matter.

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-03-26 06:53:42

WSJ - Commercial Property Faces Crisis
Delinquency Rate at 1.8%, Near Peak of Last Recession; Parallels to S&L Debacle

‘Worst of Times’
But owners could borrow so much on the expectation of rising property values and cash flows that some are at risk now that rents and occupancy are falling. “In just seven months, we’ve gone from the best of times to the worst of times,” said Richard Parkus, head of commercial mortgage securities research at Deutsche Bank.

Even some performing loans could face trouble because of a fall in values of the properties, making it hard for owners to refinance when loans come due. Currently, many banks are agreeing to grant short-term extensions on loans. But “that’s just kicking the can down the street for awhile,” said William Rudin, an owner of New York City office buildings. “That doesn’t solve the problem.”

Of $154.5 billion of securitized commercial mortgages coming due between now and 2012, about two-thirds likely won’t qualify for refinancing, Deutsche Bank predicts. Its estimate assumes declines in commercial-property values of 35% to 45% from the peak in 2007. That would exceed the price drops in the downturn of the early 1990s.

The bank estimates the default rates on the $700 billion of commercial-mortgage-backed securities could hit at least 30%, and loss rates, which figure in the amounts recovered by lenders, could reach more than 10%, the peak seen in the early 1990s.

Besides securities backed by commercial real-estate loans, about $524.5 billion of whole commercial mortgages held by U.S. banks and thrifts are expected to come due between this year and 2012. Nearly 50% wouldn’t qualify for refinancing in a tight credit environment, as they exceed 90% of the property’s value, estimates Matthew Anderson, partner at Foresight Analytics. Today, lenders generally won’t loan over 65% of a commercial property’s value.

In contrast to home mortgages — the majority of which were made by only 10 or so giant institutions — hundreds of small and regional banks loaded up on commercial real estate. As of Dec. 31, more than 2,900 banks and savings institutions had more than 300% of their risk-based capital in commercial real-estate loans, including both commercial mortgages and construction loans.

At First Bank of Beverly Hills in Calabasas, Calif., the amount of commercial-property debt outstanding was 14 times the bank’s total risk-based capital as of the end of last year. Delinquencies reached 12.9%, compared with the average of 5% among the nation’s banks and thrifts.

“In perfect hindsight, we would have done less commercial real-estate lending,” said Larry B. Faigin, president and CEO. The bank this month announced a deal with a leveraged-buyout and restructuring firm in Chicago, Orchard First Source Asset Management, under which Orchard will provide new capital. Within two years after the deal closes, First Bank will significantly reduce its concentration in commercial real-estate lending and have less than half of its assets in the sector, Mr. Faigin said.

Comment by cougar91
2009-03-26 07:23:38

Thanks, I was gonna post this before I saw your post. This just shows you SRS has many lives left in it yet. As far as commercial RE goes, this is just the beginning.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 07:32:35

SRS has a lot of life in it. Commercial is the next shoe to drop.

Do we really need all the strip-malls with nail salons and candle shops and knick-knack stores?

FAIL!!!

Comment by Lionel
2009-03-26 08:53:09

FPSS, I wrote yesterday about all the For Lease signs I saw on Montana Ave. in Santa Monica yesterday. There was a dog clothing store, a high end blue jeans store, numerous high end kids’ clothing boutiques, a super expensive chocolate shop, all trying to pull a profit on absurdly high rent. Even old stalwarts such as Shabby Chic have been vaporized. And this is just the beginning of the downturn. I’m curious to see what this area looks like five years down the road. I can’t imagine it will return to the old neighborhood 15 years ago with a hardware store, a dive bar (now the expensive Father’s Office), a service station, yet at the same time I can’t see it returning to its high end transformation.

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Comment by polly
2009-03-26 10:57:59

Shabby Chic is a store? Really? I thought it just described a style of furniture that was new but the manufacturer hit it with a hammer and did a bad paint job so it looked old.

 
 
Comment by Elanor
2009-03-26 10:49:56

Nail salons–what is up with the incredible number of nail salons? Unless they’re mostly fronts for criminal activities, how can they all possibly stay in business?

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 11:20:37

HELOC on demand side.

Cash-only (= tax evasion) on supply side.

 
 
Comment by robin
2009-03-27 00:30:37

Bye, bye, bye! 4% to 35% in O.C., depending on location.

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Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-03-26 08:01:49

09:49 Commercial real estate issues finally taking hold - RBC

RBC says that, admittedly, they were early in calling for the commercial real estate downturn following our tour of the Las Vegas mkt in Nov 2007. However, it now appears that the next leg of the credit cycle is upon us, with CRE-related issues surfacing at most, if not all, of firm’s banks.

Even though property cash flows are falling, cap rates are now rising in most mkts. Given that most of their banks are still carrying loans above their true collateral values, firm would expect more downgrades of credits, driven by higher delinquencies, updated appraisals, and more regulatory involvement.

Firm continues to see downside risk in western bank stocks, and those firm is most concerned about, given significant CRE and C&I loan concentrations, include UMPQ, ZION, CATY, EWBC, and to a lesser extent CYN.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 08:16:51

Yeah?!?

CYN is marking its mortgage + HELOC at 100% and commercial loans at 100%.

ZION is F-ed. We all know that. As is BPOP.

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-03-26 09:04:46

Nice if S&P 826 holds.

 
 
Comment by Wickedheart
2009-03-26 06:56:21

Gary “in the bag” Watts defaults on one of his OC investment properties.

http://tinyurl.com/ct83t5

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 06:59:04

There will be plenty of howls and whines over this proposal!

States consider drug tests for welfare recipients..
Mar 26, 7:32 AM (ET)
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) - Want government assistance? Just say no to drugs.

Lawmakers in at least eight states want recipients of food stamps, unemployment benefits or welfare to submit to random drug testing.

The effort comes as more Americans turn to these safety nets to ride out the recession. Poverty and civil liberties advocates fear the strategy could backfire, discouraging some people from seeking financial aid and making already desperate situations worse.

Those in favor of the drug tests say they are motivated out of a concern for their constituents’ health and ability to put themselves on more solid financial footing once the economy rebounds. But proponents concede they also want to send a message: you don’t get something for nothing.

“Nobody’s being forced into these assistance programs,” said Craig Blair, a Republican in the West Viginia Legislature who has created a Web site - notwithmytaxdollars.com - that bears a bobble-headed likeness of himself advocating this position. “If so many jobs require random drug tests these days, why not these benefits?”

Blair is proposing the most comprehensive measure in the country, as it would apply to anyone applying for food stamps, unemployment compensation or the federal programs usually known as “welfare”: Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and Women, Infants and Children.

Lawmakers in other states are offering similar, but more modest proposals.

On Wednesday, the Kansas House of Representatives approved a measure mandating drug testing for the 14,000 or so people getting cash assistance from the state, which now goes before the state senate. In February, the Oklahoma Senate unanimously passed a measure that would require drug testing as a condition of receiving TANF benefits, and similar bills have been introduced in Missouri and Hawaii. A Florida senator has proposed a bill linking unemployment compensation to drug testing, and a member of Minnesota’s House of Representatives has a bill requiring drug tests of people who get public assistance under a state program there.

A January attempt in the Arizona Senate to establish such a law failed.

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 07:36:36

“Poverty and civil liberties advocates fear the strategy could backfire, discouraging some people from seeking financial aid and making already desperate situations worse.”

If they can’t stop taking drugs to take welfare, then they deserve their desperate situation. Not my problem. Take the test or get lost.

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 12:19:49

Drug testing is not the only restriction envisioned for people receiving public assistance: a bill in the Tennessee Legislature would cap lottery winnings for recipients at $600.

Nice!

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 13:18:17

Somebody wins a million, and they get $600?? How the heck would they enforce that??

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Comment by whino
2009-03-26 08:24:24

I posted a link to this article also before seeing yours. If you go to the website listed in the article, they have a poll showing over 80% of the votes are for the bill to be passed.

Comment by Asparagus
2009-03-26 10:53:54

This could have the unintended consequence of a huge push for the legalization of maryjane.

Careful what you wish for.

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 12:22:56

That would be fine with me too.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 12:30:48

Ditto!

*scrunches up eyes and starts to carelessly wish for it *

 
 
Comment by Elanor
2009-03-26 14:25:29

The President heard you, and has now come out against legalization of marijuana.

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Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 09:11:15

I like this idea. If we are going to support people we at least need to know if they have a serious drug problem. In the end it helps them too, as they might be able to get some help.

Comment by Skip
2009-03-26 09:30:34

hahahahaha…that was funny.

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 11:53:26

What part was funny? Trying to protect taxpayer money, or helping people with drug problems?

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Comment by Skip
2009-03-26 14:37:59

To think that once we identify people with a drug problem that the state will provide them help.

You realize that providing them help will actually cost more than just providing unemployment and food stamps. Doctors and counselors aren’t free, even in West Virginia.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 15:03:06

Plus there is for more money to made by arresting them sending them to corporate prisons.

This is NOT hyperbole.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 15:04:15

“…arresting them AND sending them…”

sheesh

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-26 09:53:51

Fine! Let’s make them go to church and cram religion down their throats too! And let’s forbid them from escort services while we’re at it.

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 11:51:44

You really are crazy, Bill.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-26 19:00:55

I’m neither Democrat nor conservative. I’m a flaming liberal instead!

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-03-26 11:34:54

There was a popular song a few years ago (mainstream) all about taking the welfare check and buying drugs (Bone thugs/First of the month).

I swear the video on TV said the song title was WIC up, first of the month.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:52:32

Unfortunately, with only some states adopting this measure the junkie bums will just move to other states that reward druggies and criminals (Maryland comes to mind…) This law should be mandatory in all states so we stop spending money keep druggies on crack, etc.

Comment by Gadfly
2009-03-26 15:45:59

Require all politicians to pass mandatory & random drug testing. “High? Not on my dime.”

Watch the drug laws go away faster than you can say “Let’s ROLL”

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-03-26 19:01:18

The Maryland state government politicians are very liberal. They just put massive restrictions on the death penalty (a defacto prohibition) as well as rejected legislation to make it easier for domestic abuse victims to get a handgun.

 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 10:06:38

Received this from a buddy just a few days ago (Source unknown, if it’s not his original):

“Like a lot of folks in this state, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test with which I have no problem.

What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don’t have to pass a urine test. Shouldn’t one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check, because I have to pass one to earn it for them?

Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone who is sitting on their ass, doing drugs, while I work. Can you imagine how much money the state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?

Guess we could title the program, ‘Urine or You’re Out.’ “

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 10:06:46

This is a GREAT idea. And a total ‘duh’ idea, too. I mean, I want my tax dollars that end up in these programs to be used to feed little kids and so on, not being spent on drugs by their addled mammas.

If they wanna do drugs, they should have to do what IIII do—get a dam*n job and pay for it with their own money. ;)

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 10:27:05

Don’t you have a boyfriend to sponge off for stuff like that??? :)

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 12:49:39

Alas, all my present boyfriends are suits. Delightful and adorable in their own besuited, leather briefcased, Blackberry-carrying, boring-ties-wearing way, but lamentably short on illicit substances.
*shakes head sadly *

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Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 13:09:55

You need to trade up then, chickie. Kinda hard to chop wood in a suit and tie too.

 
 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-03-26 11:12:05

Ugh….quite the straw man, Olygal. I really hope you’re joking here.

So, if I’m an unemployed software engineer who smokes pot once a week (and bums it off friends - none of your “tax dollars” going to my habit (note that UI is paid by employers anyhow, not from tax dollars), then I shouldn’t be able to collect unemployment insurance?

Before instituting anything like this, ALL gov’t employees should be tested as well, right? Since that’s your tax dollars?

And workers for companies that have gov’t contracts? (I believe most have this policy anyhow).

Personally, I refuse to interview with any company that has mandatory drug testing. I don’t do drugs (well, nothing illegal)..I simply find the policy offensive and useless. If there’s a performance issue, then fire me on those grounds. It can be caused by bad work ethic, family problems, alcohol, drugs, etc, etc. Why single out drugs? Because they’re illegal?

Should we make sure people get fired if they ever get a civil fine for breaking the law?

Arguably, I got paid less by my employer due to their requirement to pay UI premiums/benefits (yes, by law they can’t pay me less, but realistically they do)…but even though I’ve arguably “paid” (same with Social Security, etc), I’m disqualified from benefits for a recreational habit that isn’t necessarily affecting my ability to work, get a job, be productive, etc? Come on now….

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 11:57:08

If you are unemployed and sucking off the system, you shouldn’t be doing drugs. You should be looking for a job.

Of course, if you want to get stoned great. Just don’t expect me to pony up for your munchie food stamps.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 13:01:38

So, if I’m an unemployed software engineer who smokes pot once a week (and bums it off friends - none of your “tax dollars” going to my habit (note that UI is paid by employers anyhow, not from tax dollars), then I shouldn’t be able to collect unemployment insurance?

Well, are you nursing? Are you pregnant? No? Then I don’t care. Heck, if I should happen to run into you sometime or other, you can bum some off ME.
That’s not even my point. My point is, I don’t want my tax dollars going to support someone’s drug habit, I want my tax dollars to go to feed kids and support families and stuff.
And as you point out, your UI does not come from my tax-dollars, so whatchoo grumpy about, anyway. Jeeze, man, you need to smoke more pot.
Oh, wait…

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Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 12:00:34

I agree. This bill is aimed at people that have a serious problem, and until they solve it they will suck off the system forever. If a few recreation users get hit because of it, overall it is worth it.

Unless of course you don’t mind someone trading food stamps for ripple? I do.

 
Comment by Gadfly
2009-03-26 15:55:35

Why stop there? Get all “welfare queens” off booze, tobacco, caffeine . . .

Students on aid? Pee in this cup.
Postal worker? Here’s your cup.
Politican? Cup. Pee. Here.
Small business with government contract? Wizz away,
Wilbur!
Wall Street failure? Pee like a racehorse, you sack of suds!
Veterans On Disability? Make like a fountain, soldier!

Oh, I love it when great ideas get started. There’s just no stopping the creativity that ensues. ;-)

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-26 19:19:00

Already done for DOD employees and those who get security clearances. I have no objection, actually, to drug tests on condition of employment or taxpayer aid. I do object to all victimless crime laws. Of course, I am for 100% individual responsibility. I am confident that we would not have the highest prison population in the world if we get rid of victimless crime laws. It’s embarrassing, isn’t it, that we have such a high percentage of convicts of any nation in the world.

Stupid Bible Thumping conservatives.

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Comment by robin
2009-03-27 00:40:09

Now pee into the Mc Carthy Cup!

 
 
 
 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-26 11:00:26

I’m all for this proposal as long as they attach a rider to it requiring mandatory drug tests for EVERY SINGLE EXECUTIVE of every last firm thats recieving any federal bailout assistance.

I mean seriously. The Wall Street Boiz must have been smokin SOMETHING!

Comment by Gadfly
2009-03-26 16:16:03

Investment tip of the week: CleanPee, Inc.

Details are trickling out, but word on the street is that this is a going concern. IPO whizzes say “this is number one on our radar!” ;-)

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-26 12:25:25

I’m all for making sure all of our state and federal representatives, and our president have drug tests also. Who pays their salaries? I believe it’s we the taxpayer.

Comment by Gadfly
2009-03-26 17:06:17

Too big to pee??? :-(

 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-03-26 07:26:04

26-Mar-09 07:52 ET In Play

American Intl: Departures of managers in Banque AIG could trigger defaults in $234 bln of derivative transactions - WSJ (1.20 ) -Update :

WSJ reports amid the flap over bonuses at the co, two of the co’s top managers in Paris have resigned. Their moves have left the giant insurer and officials scrambling to replace them to avoid an unlikely but expensive situation in which billions in AIG trading contracts could default.

Representatives of the Federal Reserve, AIG’s lead U.S. overseer, are talking with French regulators and AIG officials to deal with the consequences of a complicated legal scenario in which the departures of the managers in Banque AIG, a subsidiary of AIG’s Financial Products unit, could trigger defaults in $234 billion of derivative transactions, according to people familiar with the situation and a document AIG provided to the U.S. Treasury. Defaults, could not only hurt AIG but also could force European banks involved in the trades to raise billions in capital to cushion potential losses, according to AIG documents…

26-Mar-09 07:20 ET In Play American Intl: Controversial AIG unit sees more departures, according to source - Reuters.com (1.20 ) :

Reuters.com reports several more employees are leaving the controversial financial products unit that brought American International Group to its knees last year, according to a person with knowledge of developments there. The resignations are in addition to the “handful” of senior AIG Financial Products executives who have already given notice, said the person, who could not quantify the total number of departures.

To date, AIG said the situation at the financial products unit remains “manageable,” despite the departures.

But if too many employees quit, Chief Executive Edward Liddy has warned it could be disastrous for AIG and, ultimately, for U.S. taxpayers who are the insurer’s majority owners.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 13:26:32

Sounds like “terrorism” to me…….”If I leave for any reason, this place blows up.”

If I did something to an airplane that caused it to “blow up” (due to action or inaction on my part), the Feds (at minimum) would pull my certificate, and make ME prove that I was innocent before I got it back.

I must have missed that headline announcing that the Earth had been sucked into a black hole, and ended up in the “Bizzaro Dimension”.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 15:30:14

Heads I win, tails you lose. This is all you need to know about the Master(bators) of the Universe.

 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-26 07:34:18

Its Black Thursday at IBM:

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090325/ibm-the-i-stands-for-india/

IBM:

The “I” Stands for “India”

Published on March 25, 2009 by John Paczkowski

When IBM CEO Sam Palmisano advised the Obama transition team that $30 billion in information-technology stimulus handouts Big Blue is angling for could create more than 900,000 new jobs, he didn?t say they?d be created in India. Yet, apparently that?s the case.

IBM (IBM) is reportedly planning to sack “a large number” of employees in its Global Business Services division, shifting their duties overseas to workers in India.

The breadth of the reduction isn?t yet known, but chatter on the Alliance@IBM boards suggests it could be brutal. Said one commenter, “I talked to two different Band 10s in IBM Global Business Services yesterday who have both said that tomorrow will be a big day for firing in almost all of the GBS business units. Both of them are expecting that they will be cut because the percentages are going to be higher at the higher levels. Both made reference to this could be called a black Thursday.”

Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-26 20:19:59

I read the Alliance chatter board today, chilling. IBM employees were reporting their layoffs, in real time.

 
 
Comment by Simiwatch
2009-03-26 07:49:46

Notes from the Trenches:
Went to a San Diego fiber optics shows yesterday. The show was dead. Many companies traveled from China (Shenzhen?) to sit around and look at a lot of other Chinese. A lot of companies must be hurting. The only give aways were pens with companies’ names on them. When the show give aways get cheap the company is cutting back! The San Diego Expo hall was full of vendors and no attendees.

Driving back from San Diego to Los Angeles on the 15. This is a round about way to get back to LA without going thru the heart of LA. We noticed many new large industrial buildings with signs “Your Name Here”. Many new Home Depot and Lowe’s. Someone in our group commented: How many large building (10,000-50,000 sq. ft.) building have only two to three cars out front! We drove from San Diego to LA at 5:30 without hitting any major traffic jams. On LA freeways at this time is this is unheard of: unemployed people do not need to travel the freeway at 5:30.

Summary: Tech is not going to pull us out of this and the overbuilding is in planin sight to anyone on a major freeway with their eyes open.

Within the tech industry the new saying is: Only 10% down is the new growth model!

 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 08:03:31

This couldent come at a better time. I do disagree about the unemployment benefits drug testing, but the welfare and food stamps testing needed to happen long ago.

States consider drug tests for welfare recipients

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/States-consider-drug-tests-apf-14752539.html

Comment by drumminj
2009-03-26 11:15:29

And you agree all gov’t employees should be subject to this as well, right?

Comment by Cassandra
2009-03-26 13:22:04

If you drug test, who’s going to work at the DMV?

 
 
 
Comment by 20910
2009-03-26 08:05:57

Ex-stripper pleads guilty in mortgage scam.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/25/AR2009032501842.html

$800,000 wedding?!?!?@??@?!?! Holy guacamole.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 13:28:33

“Bridezilla, King of the Monsters”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 16:11:17

Yes, but think of all the “memories” (or is that “mammaries”?!?)

Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-26 20:22:44

Octomom just “revealed” that she was a stripper before popping out babies. Could her life get any more tabloid?

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 20:33:44

I was going to post that but decided to tasteful but I am glad my fellow compatriots pick up the baton when I drop it. ;-)

 
 
 
Comment by robin
2009-03-27 01:06:05

Ten years … get real!! Sterilize and compost her.

 
 
 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-03-26 08:11:46

That is the best piece of news I have read.
Yeah, I don’t live in W.VA but it could be a real boon to the western states.
Jolly good news

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-03-26 08:20:49

Just wanted to say that I dropped a post yesterday and took off ,came back late and saw some very nice thoughts from people ,and I thank you . My life and heart has been altered in a most profound way . I still have to try to save the Universe ,so I’m going to post again (just a joke) .But, I was so blessed to have such a great person as my partner for all those years . No Gold ,no money , no nothing ,was ever greater than that realtionship .

And in spite of different opinions we all express on this blog ,you feel like you know everyone ,and I even enjoy my hecklers .

Comment by Elanor
2009-03-26 10:46:12

Housing Wizard,

I am so sorry that you have lost your life partner. My deepest condolences to you.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 12:11:06

HW, I am very sorry for your loss. That has to be one of the hardest things ever.

My thoughts are with you.

 
 
Comment by SUGUY
2009-03-26 15:40:35

Life is a finite journey. Time heals. Our thoughts and prayers are with you. Sorry to hear about you loss.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-03-26 18:26:43

My sincere condolences, HW.

 
Comment by jane
2009-03-26 22:04:44

Housing Wizard, please accept my sympathy for you in your partner’s passing. Words fail in these situations, they don’t really do anything for the heart. There is nothing to do that has substance, really, other than to honor the pain of your loss.

Comment by robin
2009-03-27 01:09:00

HW, you and your memories have a thread with so many of us. Love first and shared sorrow.

 
 
 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 08:44:36

New Home Sales Fell 41% in February 2009
Barry Ritholtz
Today, 9:30 AM

“A parade of the mathematically innumerate business writers (and even worse headline writers!) continue to misread data. The latest evidence? New Home Sales.

After incorrectly reporting the Existing Home Sales, the mainstream media misread the Census department report of New Homes.

No, New Home Sales data did not improve. In fact, they were not only not positive, they were actually horrific. The year over year number was a terrible down 41%. Sales from this same period a year ago have nearly been halved.

Why did the media report this as positive? If you only read the headline number, you saw a positive datapoint: February was plus 4.7% over January.

To get the the facts, you need to read below the headline. In the present case, it wasn’t the seasonality factor that was confusing, it was the “90-percent confidence intervals” — or as it is more commonly known, the margin of error.

From the Census Bureau:

Sales of new one-family houses in February 2009 were at a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 337,000, according to estimates released jointly today by the U.S. Census Bureau and the Department of Housing and Urban Development. This is 4.7 percent (±18.3%)* above the revised January rate of 322,000, but is 41.1 percent (±7.9%) below the February 2008 estimate of 572,000.

The median sales price of new houses sold in February 2009 was $200,900; the average sales price was $251,000. The seasonally adjusted estimate of new houses for sale at the end of February was 330,000. This represents a supply of 12.2 months at the current sales rate.

Note that the month over month data at 4.7% — plus or minus 18.3% — is statistically insignificant. (i.e., meaningless). The reported data does not inform us if sales improved month-over-month or not. It is a range, from down -13.6% to plus 23%. Since “zero” is part of that range, we can draw no conclusion. As the Census Department itself notes, “the change is not statistically significant; that is, it is uncertain whether there was an increase or decrease.”

The data does however, tell us that the year-over-year sales fell 41.1% plus or minus 7.9% gives us a range of -49% to -33.2%. The entire range is negative, therefore we can conclude sales fell year-over-year.

These are facts. This is data. This is how you interpret it. Most of the MSM reports (WSJ, Marketwatch, Bloomberg) were simply wrong.

Not nuanced, not shaded, but 2+2=5 wrong.”

_____

_____ So, what was reported?

_____

WSJ: Sales of new homes rose in February for the first time in seven months, the Commerce Department reported Wednesday, another sign that the housing market is thawing

Bloomberg: Purchases of new homes in the U.S. unexpectedly rose in February from a record low as plummeting prices and cheaper mortgage rates lured some buyers. Sales increased 4.7 percent to an annual pace of 337,000 . . .

Marketwatch: The U.S. housing sector continues to see signs of improvement. The latest government data showed new home sales climbed in February for the first time in seven months, sending shares of home-building companies soaring.

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-26 08:53:31

Wasn’t the Jan sales also the worst month in recorded history? If so, then even if you said Feb sales are up MoM, it’s up compared to the worst month ever…kinda retarded to hang your hopes on that.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 09:19:59

That’s not the point blueprint.
Well, sorry, yes, kind of, I guess.

They could have reported anything and then added this:
“Whenever a statement such as “2.5 percent (±3.2%) above” appears in the text, this indicates the range (-0.7 to +5.7 percent) in which the actual percent change is likely to have occurred.”
Which is a verbatim quote from census.gov.

Since I’ve read these before, I should have mentioned yesterday the same thing this guy mentions today.
A 4.7% does mean, as this guy says, is really a range of -13% to +23% with (only) a 90% interval of confidence.
GEEZ, I play backgammon, where analysis goes to tenths of one percent and confidence interval is 95%.

(census: “All ranges given for percent changes are 90-percent confidence intervals and account only for sampling variability”)

So, to translate to English: this is BS>

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-26 12:06:06

Yeah, I get that.

My point was that not everyone understands even simple statistics. However, pretty much everyone should understand that when you say a thing is “better” than the worst it’s ever been, that’s not saying much.

I don’t expect complex analysis from the MSM but the consideration I offer, even though it’s based on a false premise of sales being up ~4%, is simple enough that ANYONE interested should have been able to make the same consideration.

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 12:24:01

I thought you did get it.
We’d both agree most people turn off after reading the headlines.

 
 
Comment by Cassandra
2009-03-26 13:24:13

Nice post Muir :-)

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 09:39:20

That’s not the point blueprint.
Well, sorry, yes, kind of, I guess.

They could have reported anything and then added this:
“Whenever a statement such as “2.5 percent (±3.2%) above” appears in the text, this indicates the range (-0.7 to +5.7 percent) in which the actual percent change is likely to have occurred.”

Which is a verbatim quote from census.gov.

Since I’ve read these before, I should have mentioned yesterday the same thing this guy mentions today.
A 4.7% does mean, as this guy says, is really a range of -13% to +23% with (only) a 90% interval of confidence.

GEEZ, I play backgammon, where analysis goes to tenths of one percent and confidence interval is 95%.

(census: “All ranges given for percent changes are 90-percent confidence intervals and account only for sampling variability”)

So, to translate to English: this is Bulls**t.

 
 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 09:12:48

They didn’t “misread” the data. They simply chose to lie about it. have to keep them advertisers happy!

 
Comment by ChrisO
2009-03-26 09:21:50

Just using your noggin and no data at all would tell you that housing sales are NOT going up when the unemployment numbers are skyrocketing.

A year-over-year decline of 30-40% isn’t a drop; it’s a bloodbath.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-26 09:55:54

Gotta get suckers back out there buying houses they can’t afford! Lie, cheat, fudge the data - wahtever it takes!

It’s working in Maryland - still plenty of people willing to pay all they can afford and then some for run down dumps in bad parts of town that have more than doubled in price in 5+ years without any improvements being done… argh!

 
Comment by Cowtown
2009-03-26 11:04:34

Are these “sales” or are they just “contracts?” I suspect they’re the latter, and many (most?) will not close.

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 08:57:04

Sacramento, Calif., OKs plan to close `tent city’

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said Wednesday he would try to find state money to help city officials relocate about 150 people from a homeless encampment that put California’s capital in the international spotlight.

The plan includes adding 50 beds to a shelter run by Volunteers of America on the fairgrounds. The shelter, which was supposed to close in the spring, will now stay open through the end of June, and the city also has located places for the 100 other residents at local shelters and in longer-term housing units.

The proposal, which is estimated to cost about $1 million, aims to close the encampment by the end of April.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-26 08:57:50

Portrait of the Treasury Secretary As A Young Man:

http://tinyurl.com/dld6hg

Wonder if he’s worried about the Beaver?

Comment by robin
2009-03-27 01:14:26

He does seem rather eager - :)

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-26 09:05:43

Revised Q4 GDP: -6.3%, the biggest contraction in 26 years.

(Manny: expect more downward statistical revisions, even from chronic number-cookers.)

Comment by Manny
2009-03-26 14:04:17

And if you want to make your investment decisions based on what happened 3-6 months ago, be my guest.

 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-26 14:13:42

26 years ago was Q4 of 1982. Dow Jones was about 800. Ten years later it was 3500. Median home cost $71K in Q4 1982. Ten years later it was $125K.

I’d say investing right after a god-awful quarter is a good move, don’t you?

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-26 15:25:51

I’d say investing right after a god-awful quarter is a good move, don’t you?

Depends on the quarter.

Q4 ‘08? Not so much.

 
Comment by in Colorado
2009-03-26 15:29:47

As long the as the following quarters aren’t even worse, sure.

Comment by Manny
2009-03-27 05:27:52

Do you really think any quarter in 2009 will be worse than -6.3%?
Anything’s possible I suppose. But highly unlikely. Q4 2008 was the perfect storm, once every 100 years kind of thing. You’re not going to get the events of Sept 2008 happening again creating the kind of panic we had. Even in let’s say BofA or AIG or JPM were to go under, it wouldn’t have the same effect as Lehman going under. The markets have been desensitized to that kind of shock.

The fear is gone….well excluding the regulars here of course.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-26 16:42:27

See US stock market, 1929-1944…

It’s not a profit until you sell; hope you sell before the sucker rally runs out of gas, bro.

 
 
 
Comment by DancingOpossum
2009-03-26 09:07:00

Will bank CEOs and employees that receive taxpayer money also be required to take drug and alcohol tests? Or are only poor people expected to be morally upright and subjected to humiliating intrusions into their personal lives in order to receive assistance?

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-26 12:14:24

Well, arguably the difference is that one group gets it for free and the other group works for it. I’m a state employee and I certainly earn my salary.

I have long thought that we should just have two “groups” of people. You get to choose which group you are in.

group 1: You get state-paid health-care, assistance if you need it, etc You aren’t held responsible for upholding contracts or such things (and thus will never be subject to being taken advantage of). You are gauranteed to have a “living wage” at least. But you don’t get to make any of your own choices. Can’t own property, vote, etc. You get what you get.

group 2: Free to make your own decisions (ride a bike without a helmet, smoke weed, whatever as long as you dont directly harm another), free to earn whatever you can earn, own property, etc. But you don’t get no help if things go bust. Stupid enough to sell yourself in credit-slavery? Too bad, you shoulda elected for group 1.

I know, I know. It needs some work, but that’s a rough outline. Lots of things to be filled in still (e.g. what is considered a “living wage”, does cable count in a minimum std of lifestyle?, etc) but it seems to me this would eliminate a lot of problems.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 15:44:42

You should read a book called “Beggars in Spain” by Nancy Kress.

A VERY scary book about a very divided American society of haves and have nots and a small, elite, genetically engineered super intelligent group that rules them both.

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-26 18:43:28

Just added it to my list.

Thanks.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-26 17:00:39

Humiliating intrusions have been a feature of public assistance from only a few years after it was initiated. Check out “The Autobiography of Malcolm X” for an example. (His family was ruined when his father was murdered and the insurance company refused to pay, ruling it “suicide,” even though he was killed by a blunt force trauma to the head that could not have been self-inflicted. Having exhausted their savings, they turned to the state for food aid, and the social workers began to put increasing pressure on Malcolm’s mother, to the point where she had a nervous breakdown and spent her sunset years in a home, unable, at times, to recognize her own children.)

Ideally, we would have less people on public assistance and would run public housing more like the old days, when they only put you in government housing if you seemed to be a “good prospect” who wouldn’t destroy the neighborhood. Section 8 is a moral hazard bonanza and results in the elderly, small children, and the disabled being terrorized by thugs engaged in the burglary and drug trades.

There is a social good in providing for small children rather than letting the “ungrateful” poor just breed in some tenements, because abused and neglected children are more likely to either end up as a drain on society (because of low IQ caused by malnutrition or metals poisoning, or some birth defect b/c of mother’s poor nutrition) or as a criminal. Which doesn’t mean they all end up like this, just more of them. Crime rates today are far lower per capita than they were historically. However, the way teenage mothers are just thrown to the wolves rather than sat down and, well, forced to learn basic life skills (math, budgeting, cooking, nutrition, making plans, appropriate work behavior, child development) sabotages any attempt to set the next generation on the right path. I saw a really sad story once on one of those TV judge shows, where a young girl had had sex and gotten pregnant and it turned out her mother had had her as a teenager as well. The mother, not even 30 herself, broke down in tears when she explained to the judge that she had never taught her daughter the facts of life, having never realized that her own chaotic lifestyle up to that point had been imitated all too perfectly by her impressionable child.

But bottom line, I think there’s a connection between the insane number of young men in prison for non-violent drug charges on possession of small amounts of weed, and the single mother explosion. How can you have a stable family in that situation? Even the migratory work force of the 60’s didn’t lead to a breakdown of this scale. And now the answer is to do pee tests on even more people? This is puritanism at its worst. Sure, I would support removing children from cocaine users (never mind the loss of benefits–take the poor kid out of that home!), but pot? And you know they will test for THC, exactly that.

The only reason I see to pay for TANF and WIC is for the welfare of children, and I really don’t see how this enhances their welfare. Oh, and how come it’s perfectly legal to smoke more than Patty and Selma combined in a house with all windows shut so your kids have constant rhino infections and bronchitis and you end up running up medical bills over the years (that others must pay), but if you go out with your friends and toke once a month you’re an evil criminal and deserve xyz? Btw, I don’t smoke anything, I just think this is absurd.

And it’s already illegal to have drug paraphenalia around the house with children–they will arrest you and take the kids away pronto. Whether you’re on welfare or not. (Unless, I suppose, you are a Wall Street Master of the Universe … naturally your wife, nanny, and maid have nothing to do with your little cocaine habit, and naturally the judge will allow you to post a hefty bail … then your lawyers will have lunch with the judge … all will be forgiven … no doubt …)

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-03-26 09:09:52

“Out of the frying pan — too little oversight of financial firms — and into the fire — government takeovers without limit.”

When I was in the public sector, I called this the principle of oscillating stupidity.

But where you have privilegs for powerful interests you get the opposite — perpetual stagnation.

So either you have a complete lack of consideration of the public interest, or a complete lack of sense.

 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-03-26 09:14:46

I really like Obama’s online townhall meeting idea. They know they are never going to get a fair shake from the liars on TV. Just go around them, or go on outlets that are more fair.

Like the Daily Show, which is the best news available. All you really need to know. The rest is BS.

The most truthful thing you see on TV are the commercials.

Comment by Bronco
2009-03-26 09:21:22

what is with your daily infatuation about liars?

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 09:43:38

CNN is a tool of the right wing….you haven’t figured that out yet??? :)

Comment by Bronco
2009-03-26 10:55:25

it boggles the mind that there are really humans that think this way…

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 15:48:50

Most of this country is made up of people who get all their talking points, life advice and vicarious thrills from MSM.

You ARE familiar with the basics of psychological warfare, aren’t you?

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 13:35:30

Put the emphasis on “tool” :)

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Comment by ChrisO
2009-03-26 09:25:18

To me, the whole thing sounds like a way for them to get you on their campaign mailing list.

“Townhall” meetings are the biggest piece of theatrical nonsense in politics, regardless of who conducts them. Team Obama doesn’t care about your little opinion any more than Team Bush did.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-26 09:42:42

With this format, Obama’s team gets to choose the questions that will be covered, and load his teleprompter with the desired answer to each one.

You don’t hear the “Empty Suit” and “Obama” in the same sentence.

Yet.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-26 09:54:57

“Townhall” meetings are the biggest piece of theatrical nonsense in politics, regardless of who conducts them.

Indeed — it’s a chance for politicians to make understanding faces and soothing noises at “average” Americans (ironic quotes intended, as the average American wouldn’t be caught dead in a townhall meeting, regardless of the candidate) without actually saying much of substance.

Having said that, the previous occupant of 1600 Penn. Ave. sunk to an all-time cynical low in his huskerish manipulation of the townhall format.

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Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 13:37:16

While the cameras are rolling of course, so they have footage for next election’s campaign ads.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 10:25:07

He’s just a political troll, that’s all. Despite Ben’s discouragement.

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Comment by whino
2009-03-26 10:44:04

“He’s just a political troll, that’s all. Despite Ben’s discouragement.”

I agree and will add maybe bananarepublic missed Ben’s post. I reposted Ben’s warning below ( I hope you don’t mind Ben, but like you said its getting to be too much)

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-21 11:37:29
BTW, some of you guys are using more and more crude language. I’m just not going to put up with it. And this political stuff is getting to be too much to.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-26 11:19:48

Thanks for the re-post; I missed it the first time.

But “more crude language”???? Come on! Auger-inn set the standard for graphic, low imagery LONG long ago… And it became a deeply-engrained part of the local culture.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 11:33:15

Oh c’mon!!! We haven’t even gotten to the part where we ask whether the First Daughters - Shaniqua and Tamara - are going to have teen pregnancies soon or not.

Now, that would be offensive.

This stuff is like the light coating of motor oil after a summer rain in the city.

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 11:48:01

Ok Cat, you wanna start a betting pool?? :)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 12:39:00

No, I only play bookie for things that are “unlikely”.

OK, that was harsh! ;-)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 13:05:53

whino said:

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-21 11:37:29
BTW, some of you guys are using more and more crude language. I’m just not going to put up with it. And this political stuff is getting to be too much to.

WELLLL, whino! Ben said ‘damn’ the day before yesterday! Thass right! So there!

*nods fluffy head, feeling pleased with self at having retorted so tellingly *

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 13:06:15

LOLOL!!!

If you don’t pi*s off somebody, sometime, have you really accomplished anything??

 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 13:53:53

“WELLLL, whino! Ben said ‘damn’ the day before yesterday! Thass right! So there!”

Lol!!!! I missed that one, but you have to admit he’s the boss here and can break his own rules. ;-) Although Ben should be leading by example. Shame on him! :-D

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-26 18:19:39

Lol!!!! I missed that one, but you have to admit he’s the boss here and can break his own rules. Although Ben should be leading by example. Shame on him!

:)
Yep.

 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-03-26 19:05:40

Housing news and stats brought all of us together.
Pollytricks is tearing us apart.

 
 
 
 
Comment by crazy frog
2009-03-26 10:25:03

Let us know when you don’t like something about Obama. I am doubtful such time will ever come, but for any case keep us posted if it happens.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-03-26 09:15:11

Law of unintended consequences

Warren Buffet from Bloomberg.

Though Berkshire’s credit is pristine — we are one of only seven AAA corporations in the country — our cost of borrowing is now far higher than competitors with shaky balance sheets but government backing,” Buffett said in his annual letter to shareholders last month. “At the moment, it is much better to be a financial cripple with a government guarantee than a Gibraltar without one.

My guess is he gets credit for far less than the 10% rate he is getting from Goldman. Sounds like a pretty good gig, borrow a billion dollars at 4% lend it to Goldman at 10% with possible stock gains and knowledge that the Gov will never ever let Goldman fail. ie the Gov is part of Goldman.

Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 10:10:41

That’s like the new-housing report deconstruction by Ritholz, above. It’s what’s beneath the headline that matters.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-03-26 17:03:44

Old news. Berkshire’s credit rating has been cut.

 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-03-26 10:13:26

Since it’s a slow day so far, this one is totally O/T:

A relative has quite enthusiastically gotten into something called “DubLi,” which sounds to me like a typical pyramid scheme, and wants to recruit everyone they ever met, including family. Anyone know much about it?

Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 10:22:03

It’s network marketing a la Amway……google it, then tell said relative to kiss off.

 
 
Comment by whino
 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 11:22:19

Steve Keen

The most important thing that global financial crisis has done for economic theory is to show that neoclassical economics is not merely wrong, but dangerous.

Neoclassical economics contributed directly to this crisis by promoting a faith in the innate stability of a market economy, in a manner which in fact increased the tendency to instability of the financial system. With its false belief that all instability in the system can be traced to interventions in the market, rather than the market itself, it championed the deregulation of finance and a dramatic increase in income inequality. Its equilibrium vision of the functioning of finance markets led to the development of the very financial products that are now threatening the continued existence of capitalism itself.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 11:24:57

“… the low-inflation era of the past two decades has seen not only significant improvements in economic growth and productivity but also a marked reduction in economic volatility…, a phenomenon that has been dubbed “the Great Moderation”. Recessions have become less frequent and milder, and … volatility in output and employment has declined significantly… The sources of the Great Moderation remain somewhat controversial, but … there is evidence for the view that improved control of inflation has contributed in important measure to this welcome change in the economy …” (Bernanke, 2004)

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:05:22

Low inflation? Only if they actually believe their own fudged numbers.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:06:56

Oxymoron alert!

“mild recession”

 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 17:43:49

“but also a marked reduction in economic volatility” (Bernake)

Come on!!??

Nobody got a smile out of that????!!

(I thought this was my funniest post in weeks)

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-03-26 11:42:46

neoclassical economics = emperors new clothes.

Tailors = Wallstreet
Approving crowds = small time traders, deluded press and business owners who really paid for the clothes.
King = Congress and Presidents over the last decade who truely believe their Wallstreet advisors that deregulation (emperors clothes) really makes them look smart. Note a handfull of congress fall into the Tailors catagory as well.

A total of 8 politicians voted against the repeal of Glass Steagle.

 
 
Comment by Observer
2009-03-26 11:24:24

What are your opinions on how long this current stock market rally will last?

It’s amazing how psychology shifts so rapidly. Three weeks ago, all economic data was viewed and analyzed with a negative bent but since then it’s just the opposite.

Comment by in Colorado
2009-03-26 15:26:44

Once the pathetic Q2 numbers roll in everyone will realize that it was a sucker’s tally.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:03:39

My opinion? Pump and dump before the real SHTF.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-03-26 11:26:00

NEW YORK (AP) — Wall Street extended its gains Thursday on relief that a government debt auction drew strong interest.

??? Isn’t this the FED buying our own treasuries??

Go market

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-26 11:42:53

“??? Isn’t this the FED buying our own treasuries??”

That was my thought as well… WTF?

Sure is a relief to see “strong interest” in an auction when we don’t know how much of it the Fed bought. Yeesh—what amazing critical-thinking skills these journalists have.

I see dumb people. They’re everywhere…

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 12:30:21

Funny, I see debt people instead.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 11:32:35

No surprise, but he is Barry’s main handler…

From the Chicago Tribune…
Before its portfolio of bad loans helped trigger the current housing crisis, mortgage giant Freddie Mac was the focus of a major accounting scandal that led to a management shake-up, huge fines and scalding condemnation of passive directors by a top federal regulator.

One of those allegedly asleep-at-the-switch board members was Chicago’s Rahm Emanuel—now chief of staff to President Barack Obama—who made at least $320,000 for a 14-month stint at Freddie Mac that required little effort.

As gatekeeper to Obama, Emanuel now plays a critical role in addressing the nation’s mortgage woes and fulfilling the administration’s pledge to impose responsibility on the financial world.

Emanuel’s Freddie Mac involvement has been a prominent point on his political résumé, and his healthy payday from the firm has been no secret either. What is less known, however, is how little he apparently did for his money and how he benefited from the kind of cozy ties between Washington and Wall Street that have fueled the nation’s current economic mess.

The House Rahm Built

Though just 49, Emanuel is a veteran Democratic strategist and fundraiser who served three terms in the U.S. House after helping elect Mayor Richard Daley and former President Bill Clinton. The Freddie Mac money was a small piece of the $16 million he made in a three-year interlude as an investment banker a decade ago.

In business as in politics, Emanuel has cultivated an aggressive, take-charge reputation that made him rich and propelled his rise to the front of the national stage. But buried deep in corporate and government documents on the Freddie Mac scandal is a little-known and very different story involving Emanuel.

He was named to the Freddie Mac board in February 2000 by Clinton, whom Emanuel had served as White House political director and vocal defender during the Whitewater and Monica Lewinsky scandals.

The board met no more than six times a year. Unlike most fellow directors, Emanuel was not assigned to any of the board’s working committees, according to company proxy statements. Immediately upon joining the board, Emanuel and other new directors qualified for $380,000 in stock and options plus a $20,000 annual fee, records indicate.

On Emanuel’s watch, the board was told by executives of a plan to use accounting tricks to mislead shareholders about outsize profits the government-chartered firm was then reaping from risky investments. The goal was to push earnings onto the books in future years, ensuring that Freddie Mac would appear profitable on paper for years to come and helping maximize annual bonuses for company brass.

The accounting scandal wasn’t the only one that brewed during Emanuel’s tenure.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:14:33

And let’s not forget Franklin D. Raines over at Fannie Mae running his own little scams and cooking the books.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-03-26 11:34:41

http://tinyurl.com/ca7mx3

Here’s a warning for the moneychangers, corporatists and wealthy elite.

Comment by Bronco
2009-03-26 13:19:34

what are you planning here, exeter??

Comment by exeter
2009-03-26 14:32:35

Who me? ;)

None can say they weren’t warned.

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-26 13:49:57

“Nobody deserves that.”

” “Deserve” don’t have nothin’ to do with……..except when it comes to these jackholes”

(Apologies to Bill Munny)

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:21:49

Gotta love this quote:

“I feel sorry for his family but I think people’s emotions are running very high. Like it or not, we are in a blame society and are always looking for someone to blame.”

So is this to say that criminals shouldn’t expect consequences or be blamed?

Yeeaaaa, I don’t think so. People get kinda funny about it when others are rewarded for failure.. at their expense. Crazy, I know.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-26 21:45:32

I think the former Masters Of The Universe should be prepared for that and a lot worse.

(Anybody remember the Columbian footballer Andres Escobar, who was whacked for scoring on his own team during the World Cup? That was only about international soccer, not an international financial collapse. Yes, tempers may run high; scapegoats may be sought.)

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 11:44:14

Thursday, March 26th, 2009

ITEM: Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) has introduced legislation that would “bar the dollar from being replaced by any foreign currency.” This nitwit may be a nice person…even somebody’s loving mother…but Minnesotans should require she take a short course in monetary fundamentals.

The United States does not rule the world. It cannot dictate to other nations the currency they may choose to settle trade accounts. If a majority of countries wish to dump the U.S. dollar as a reserve currency there is little we can do about it, although it would be sensible for Messrs. Geithner and Bernanke to stop inflating the money supply so recklessly. It’s send a very negative signal to our trading partners.

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-26 12:18:34

At least she provides some comic relief. Did you catch her little tirade with TTT last week about “what is the constitutional basis for giving money to wall street?” Uhhhh,,,,, the congress is you silly twat. That these critters get elected is the truely appaling thing.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-26 17:45:02

Bachmann is runner up for the GOP Poster Child of No Brains… right behind the Wasilla Wacko.

 
 
Comment by bink
2009-03-26 12:20:17

It makes me wonder what insider rumors and plans she’s been overhearing but not understanding.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-26 13:30:49

Wow - just wow.

I follow college hoops quite a bit. One thing everyone who does this knows is that if a coach is performing poorly, but then gets a vote of confidence - that means it’s time to start sending out your resume.

This sounds like the financial equivalent.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 11:49:24

From The Agora 5…

“You mean to tell me that the success of my program and my re-election hinges on the Federal Reserve and a bunch of f*%&ing bond traders?”

That famous outburst belongs to Bill Clinton, when the bond market asserted a veto on his spending plans in the ’90s. We suspect similar slips are being uttered behind closed doors all over the world today… probably with just as much cursing.

The U.S. Treasury auctioned off $34 billion in 5-year notes yesterday — barely. Demand for government debt was so low the Treasury had to adjust the bond yields midauction, from 1.8% to 1.85%. Five basis points might not seem like a big deal, but it certainly turned heads at the Big Board:

Even more notable, this bond fallout happened on the same day the Federal Reserve announced its first series of Treasury bond purchases. Bernanke and company snatched up $7.5 billion of its $300 billion U.S. Treasury purchase program… and investors didn’t seem to care. So much for the trader idiom “Don’t fight the Fed.”

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 11:51:27

This point by John Mauldin is interesting - -

“On the Fed printing money: there is one small thing to watch. What if they print it, put it in the banks and then the banks instead of lending it to each other at 1.25% in LIBOR decide to deposit it at the Fed for .25% because they are worried about security and counter-party risk, which is a lot of the reason Fed reserves have exploded. They could print $5 trillion and if it all goes back to the Fed then where is the inflation? We need to pay close attention to where the money goes.”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 11:53:51

If I counterfeited $5T and buried it in my backyard, would that be “inflationary”?

Not much happens unless the money enters the system.

That’s the “executive summary” of Japan’s deflation. They attempted to inflate and the money fueled into various carry trades. Not much entered the Japanese economy.

 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 12:21:56

SFBayAreaGal,

I sent you the data you were looking for. Sorry about the delay!

I was doing taxes and I’ve been stuck in Excel-spreadsheet hell for two days. It’s all done now. :-D

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-26 12:33:59

Thanks FPSS. :)

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-26 14:43:21

Having a busy investing year definitely makes tax-time a big PITA. I’ve only been doing active trading since last year; any tips on making tax-time less painful, FPSS?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 14:57:01

Good records + Excel.

I use an extraordinarily simple strategy that serves me well:

[1] One sheet per security.
[2] Record every individual trade price not the average price - two columns - initiation and liquidation.
[3] Use Excel to pair the initiation trades and liquidation trades logically using SUM(), etc. because this is the format in which the IRS wants it.

 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-03-26 18:28:52

Or do most of your trading in your retirement account and avoid all that record keeping nonsense.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 20:11:36

Only if all your bets can be confined to the small space that is your retirement account. ;-)

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-03-26 12:22:40

And now for some tragi-comic relief

Distinguished ladies and gentlemen of the HBB. Please allow me to present to you a new public currency backed by whatever is left of the full faith and credit of the US Government.

I give you

The fuffle

http://energybulletin.net/node/48421

Please spend as many as you like. I am certain they will print more. In the end though, we’re all fuffed.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-26 12:51:31

Got time on your hands?

Bernie Madoff does, and now his friendly bankers at Chase have “Time” on their case:

As Bernard Madoff passes time as inmate No. 61727-054 in the Metropolitan Correctional Center in lower Manhattan, questions about his giant scheme continue to dog investigators and the public. Among them is the curious relationship Madoff had with his bank, JPMorgan Chase. The Chase account, Madoff said in court in mid-March, was used to shuttle money back and forth between his U.S. and London operations, to make it appear he was executing trades in European markets, as he told federal regulators. Madoff made no trades at all with his Chase account, but rather just collected investor monies, wrote checks to investors, and took money for himself. In court, Madoff pleaded guilty to 11 counts of fraud, from wire transfer to money-laundering.

One puzzler for money chasers in Madoff’s $65 billion Ponzi is why the multibillion-dollar bank account he kept at Chase never came under suspicion by internal bank compliance systems or managers in charge of Madoff’s account.
When it comes to technology that scans for fraud, today’s detection systems are largely focused on identity theft, hackers and account anomalies, according to Don Jackson, director of threat intelligence for Atlanta-based SecureWorks, information-security experts on financial cyberthreat. “The problem with financial-fraud technology is that it’s only as good as how it’s set up,” Jackson says. “If it’s set up for a high-volume and multiple-wire-transfers account, then it won’t reveal anything strange when there’s lots of activity, like Madoff’s account. The only way to stop this kind of fraud is for the bank to know its client better and to report things that might be suspicious. It really comes down to human control.” TIME CNN

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:54:46

BS. They didn’t want to know if that huge amount of money was funny.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 13:13:06

A Bailout in Disguise
by Bill Bonner
London, England
Three cheers for Topolanek!

Never heard of him? Neither had we until this morning. But on the front page of today’s Financial Times, we discover two extraordinary things. Topolanek is the Prime Minister of the Czech Republic (and coincidentally, president of the European Union). And, he has a very accurate road map.

“The US is repeating mistakes from the 1930s,” he says, “such as wide- ranging stimuluses, protectionist tendencies and appeals, the Buy American campaign and so on. All these steps, their combination and their permanency, are the road to hell.”

We’ve said so ourselves. Many times. But we are surprised to find the president of the world’s biggest and richest economy - Europe - say so. It made us feel funny…odd…as if we weren’t alone in the world after all…as if we had a friend. And a friend in a high place.

At least, he was in a high place this week. He lost a non-confidence vote in his the Czech parliament on Tuesday…causing a stir in Brussels. No one knows how the European central government functions - certainly not the Europeans.

But as near as we can tell, it’s a healthier system than the United States. The presidency rotates…with each member nation getting a turn. So, when the president of the EU says something, you can ignore him; he’ll be gone before the milk goes bad.

Meanwhile, Europe’s central bank seems to be of the same mind as its president.

While other central banks print up extra currency to help bailout their economies, the European Central Bank hardly seems to notice. Unlike the central banks of Britain, Japan and the United States, it hasn’t cut rates to zero…and it isn’t printing money. The economy will get itself out of the slump faster if the bank remains steadfast in its long term objectives of sound money and stable interest rates, says Trichet.

Well, as we Irish would say, “Tree cheers for Trichet, too!”

In America, the scammy bailouts come faster than European presidents. But each one gets a little cleverer at disguising what is really going on.

The idea behind all the bailout programs is always the same - to stick the losses onto someone who doesn’t deserve them.

Of course, the stickers tell us not to ask questions; it’s a national emergency! But when the stickees - the taxpayers - see what actually is done with the bailout money, they get a little huffy. So, now the stickers have a new plan: a public/private partnership, which makes it sound like Wall Street is helping to bail itself out.

Finally, the feds are going to harness the private sector…and get the people who caused the crisis to help get us out if it. Now, investors and government will be working together, as equals, to solve this problem. But if you believe that…well…you are Tom Friedman. Which is to say, you are a moron.

Inviting investors into the game looks good on paper, but what’s really going on? The losses are the losses. Why would investors want a part of them?

Of course, they wouldn’t…unless they were paid to play along.

The public is fed up with bailouts. So, the feds have disguised this new one as an investment scheme. The lumpen yahoos are invited to imagine that “capitalists are now going to help solve the problem they caused” as it was described in the French press. They delude themselves into believing investors are willingly going to buy into losing positions…and somehow make them winning ones. “Win…win…win…” is what they’d like to believe.

But the game is poker. And for every winner, there’s a loser. And the big fellow who has just entered the game is every poker player’s dream. He is almost infinitely rich and infinitely stupid. Before the night is over, investors are going to clean him out.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 16:58:21

CAPITALISM - The extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of reasons will somehow work for the benefit of us all. :lol:

 
Comment by Sagesse
2009-03-26 17:03:26

I wish something like this was written in Germany. You’d think that Geithner was the pope, from how the press is in awe with every one of his distortions.

Comment by CA renter
2009-03-28 03:48:49

Wow, why is that?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-26 13:18:26

Soros Says Commercial Property Values Will Fall 30% (Update1)
By Michael Forsythe

March 26 (Bloomberg) — Billionaire investor George Soros said U.S. commercial real estate will probably drop at least 30 percent in value, causing further strains on banks.

“Commercial real estate has not yet fallen in value,” Soros, speaking at a forum in Washington, said. “It is inevitable, it is written, everybody knows it, there are already some transactions which reflect and anticipate it, so we know, they will drop at least 30 percent.”

U.S. commercial real estate values have fallen 30 percent from the 2007 peak as cheap financing disappeared and the recession reduced occupancies, RREFF, the real estate investment unit of Deutsche Bank AG, said yesterday in its 2009 forecast. Total returns in a commercial property index used by pension funds may decline as much as 11 percent this year, the group said.

Soros, 78, said the risk of further declines in property prices is reason for the administration of President Barack Obama to move quickly to recapitalize banks. Soros said Obama acted too slowly on a banking overhaul and should have moved immediately upon taking office.

“At that moment of enthusiasm, fresh out of the gate, he would have gotten that money, and then we could have recapitalized the banks the right way, which would be to draw a line over the existing past accumulated bad assets and create new banks on top of these old banks,” Soros said.

‘New Bank, Old Bank’

“Instead of good bank, bad bank, have new bank, old bank and keep the old capital to cover the old assets which are still deteriorating and will continue to deteriorate for several years” because of the coming decline of commercial real estate values, Soros said.

Soros also said that the U.S. may face a new round of inflation should the flow of credit recover because of the large increase in the money supply stemming from the Federal Reserve’s purchases of Treasury securities.

U.S. central bankers decided last week to buy as much as $300 billion of long-term Treasuries and more than double mortgage-debt purchases to $1.45 trillion, aiming to lower home-loan and other interest rates.

“In order to make up for the collapse of credit, we are effectively creating money,” Soros said. “If and when credit is restarted, you would then have an incredibly swollen monetary base, which, if it were leveraged, you would have an explosion of inflation.”

“Right now we are in a period of deflation, but it could easily tip over, where you are facing inflation,” Soros said. “You are then faced with the prospect of draining money supply as fast as credit is created.”

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-26 14:37:29

“Billionaire investor George Soros said U.S. commercial real estate will probably drop at least 30 percent in value, causing further strains on banks.”

My opinion: Soros is an optimist.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 15:21:24

It’s not that - it’s that the rewards for predicting exactly are asymmetric.

I bet you if you cornered him over a drink, he’d tell you the truth that it was likely to be higher.

The point is that if he predicts 60% drop, and it drops 55% (after accounting for inflation), he will look kinda foolish but if he predicts 30% and it ends up 55%, he will look very very smart.

Or to put it differently, and this one is for you Muir, the 95% confidence interval for 30% drop is almost certain but the 95% confidence interval for a 60% drop is substantially lower.

Knowing the journalistic “brain-trust”, I see exactly why he’s giving an “optimistic” prediction.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-26 17:39:25

:-)

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Comment by robin
2009-03-27 01:27:20

35 to65% IMHO.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 13:29:48

Well I’m glad we’ve moved on from AIG bonuses, TARP, TALF and all that to more important matters: Sheesh.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9759GG00&show_article=1

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-26 13:33:34

I hope this kid doesn’t get in trouble when he gets back home. It is kinda funny:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1164492/Teenager-paints-giant-phallus-roof-parents-home.html

 
Comment by nhz
2009-03-26 13:34:58

Dutch bubble update:

the amount of homes for sale in Netherlands has surged to numbers far above the previous all time high. In 1999 inventory was 2.3x monthly sales, now it stands at 16.3x. The market is thought to be balanced between sellers and buyers when the number is around 7.

This saturday there is the National Open House Day, organised by the realtors. Sellers open their home for potential visitors (without a realtor being present, and the visitor does not need to make an appointment). I predict it will be extremely quiet: over 40.000 sellers are participating, but I doubt there are that much potential buyers in the whole country now…

Prices are a few % below the all time high, although in some pockets prices are declining more (difficult to make sense of all the conflicting statistics). More reports, mostly from foreign banks and institutions, are predicting 30-50% price declines for Netherlands over the next few years. Of course the realtors and the government beg to differ, ‘the Netherlands IS different’.

As for mortgages, one of the newer Dutch banks (DSB) is under investigation because it appears they regularly offered 200% mortgages to customers (did they do that in the US??). Just a few weeks ago the president of DSB volunteered on the TV News to take on the job of Finance Minister and quickly solve the Dutch credit crisis.

Another statistic: Dutch mortgage debt soared from 160 billion euros in 1996 to nearly 600 billion euros now, with a majority of the new loans being I/O, 100-125% loans. Many of these laons are officially under water, but nobody cares. Netherlands has the highest mortgage debt to GDP ratio in the world.

Everything is lining up like around the previous (-40%) Dutch housing crash in 1979. Even squatting is back in the news: the government is going to try again to forbid squatting completely. I think they will have to use the army again to protect the RE mob (and banksters, trouble is brewing here as well) from angry civilians. If they read the history books a complete squatting ban is not a good idea. And apart from that, squatting and anti-squatting seems to be an excellent Dutch export industry at the moment ;)

Comment by CA renter
2009-03-28 03:55:38

Great news, nhz! :)

 
 
Comment by davisdave
2009-03-26 13:36:40

did y’all see southpark’s economic crisis? loved the federal reserve chart…

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 16:06:49

TIMMMMMMMMMMMMMMAY!!!

 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-03-26 14:44:48

I was searching for some electrical wire & found this at a supplier’s web site: “The current economic situation has damaged the scheduled manufacturer chain, in that mill after mill has cut back on personnel and work days and extended shipping schedules from 2 to 4 weeks delivery to as many as 10 to 12 weeks. Some major links in the chain have shut down temporarily and some have closed until further notice. We are feeling the effects of this situation on an increasing number of our products, and we are being forced to delay shipping on an increasing number of orders. We are also seeking alternate suppliers for some items where possible. We apologize for any delays.”

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 17:02:19

That’s scary.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 18:26:34

It’s the inevitable consequence of long and very stretched out highly-leveraged supply chains.

Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2009-03-26 19:49:50

Horsehockey.

I’m seeing just the opposite. Vendors are turning orders around right now in record time. And why shouldn’t they? Their production schedules are wide open and they’re looking to off-load inventory to any customers who are still ordering. The only ones who aren’t doing this are the ones who are financially strapped, and we probably shouldn’t be doing business with them anyway.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-26 20:14:19

I’m seeing both.

Absurdly fast turnaround and extraordinarily slow turnaround.

And I don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other about this subject so I will not argue with the kind of strong opinion that uses “horsehockey” as an epithet. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-26 19:53:09

Just in time?

LOL!

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Comment by CA renter
2009-03-28 03:58:11

Suppliers are shutting down all over the place. We are going to go from masssive over-capacity to under-capacity within a year or two, IMHO.

Combine that with all the liquidity being pumped into the system…

At some point, this is where the inflation argument comes into play.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 15:01:03

Fed’s Fisher sees economic downturn ‘tempering’

DAYTON, Ohio (AP) — The head of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas said Thursday that he’s hopeful there will be a “tempering” of the national economic downturn in the second quarter, but he still expects the economy to shrink in 2009.

“Personally, I am concerned about the first quarter of the year and the second quarter of the year,” Richard Fisher told reporters after giving a speech to a student investment forum at the University of Dayton.

“I would hope the effects of the (federal) stimulus (package) and hopefully our initiatives will begin to allow the credit markets to heal and economic growth will begin to drift upwards,” he said. “Overall, I expect negative growth for the year.”

However, Fisher told the students the hard times create an enormous investment opportunity.

“The current economic and financial predicament represents a potential gold mine rather than a minefield,” he said. “There are a lot of dollar bills lying around the streets of these markets that could be picked up for nickels and dimes. So my advice to you is to go out and get them.”

 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 15:07:29

THE INFLUENCE GAME: Lobbying helps turn bonus tide

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/THE-INFLUENCE-GAME-Lobbying-apf-14757976.html

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-26 17:05:22

There are now 4 branches of the US government:

Wall St.
K Street
The Fed
Arms dealers

 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 17:07:34

This is a very insightful behind the scene article showing who really runs our Country. Not that I ever thought our politician’s were actually honest.

Comment by CA renter
2009-03-28 04:03:38

Absolutely.

We know for a fact that many thousands of people (perhaps many more) were contacting legislators last fall during the first bailout attempt (TARP). Although we were hearing calls being 10:1 in opposition of the bailout, it was passed handily.

Our representative absolutely do NOT represent us.

 
 
 
Comment by Reuven
2009-03-26 17:25:48

Greetings from Taipei!

The flight from SFO->Narita wasn’t very full–about 10 empty seats in buisness. And on the connection from Narita->Tapiei, it was probably about 50% full–and we got an op-up from Business to First on a non-revenue ticket! (Which is pretty unusual.)

Still, people in Taipei don’t look as gloomy as they do in CA or FL. At least Taipei still manufactures things!

Comment by CA renter
2009-03-28 04:04:42

Enjoy your trip, Reuven!

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-03-26 17:26:51

Student-Loan Default Rate Rises

By JOHN HECHINGER and ROBERT TOMSHO

The U.S. Department of Education, demonstrating the toll the sour economy is taking on recent college graduates, reported a jump in the student-loan default rate to 6.9%, from 5.2% a year earlier.

Raising the stakes for consumers and taxpayers, the amount that students are borrowing for their education has been increasing dramatically in recent years, with half a trillion dollars in federal student loan debt now outstanding.

Robert Shireman, a senior adviser to Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, says he expects the default rate, which reflects the early part of the recession, to continue to rise. “When people are facing a job loss, figuring out how to pay their student loan is not No. 1 on their list,” he said.

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-26 17:28:33

Student-Loan Default Rate Rises

That was just first few paragraphs. It gets better further in. :D

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-26 19:24:18

What a period of 3 weeks! VEIEX and VISGX are up 28 or 29% from their lows! VFINX up 22% from a 2 week low!

The messiah cheerleaders are leading the market index rises. Yes, Mr. Barack, here…I have my head on the chopping block…Not enough neck?…Okay. I will put more neck on the block…how’s this?…Hey…There’s a Joshua Tree at 11:00…Would you care to use one on me? How about a statue of the Virgin Mary?…Use your imagination…please!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 20:39:12

Obviously the stock market is taking a contrarian signal from this news that the US corporate profits are dropping at the fastest rate in 55 years.

Fair is foul and foul is fair
Hover through the fog and filthy air.

Financial Times
US economy falls 6.3% in fourth quarter
By Alan Rappeport in New York
Published: March 26 2009 13:12 | Last updated: March 26 2009 15:29

The US economy shrank in the fourth quarter at its fastest rate since 1982, revised official figures showed on Thursday, as corporate profits fell at the sharpest pace in 55 years and jobless claims continued to climb.

Updated commerce department data showed US gross domestic product contracting at an annualised rate of 6.3 per cent in the fourth quarter of last year, compared with last month’s estimate of 6.2 per cent. That previous 26-year record came after an overly optimistic January projection that the economy contracted by just 3.8 per cent in spite of anecdotal evidence of a more severe downturn.

The final GDP figures were expected to show a contraction of 6.6 per cent, but the results signal that a deeper contraction could be coming this quarter. The revision was due to a draw-down of inventories and a slowing of construction and exported services. The downgrade was blunted by reduced imports, an uptick in exported goods and an infusion of government spending.

A weakened US economy pulled corporate profits down by 16.5 per cent, or $250.3bn, in the fourth quarter of 2008 from the third, the biggest drop since a decline of 16.9 per cent in the same period of 1953. According to economists at Goldman Sachs 70 per cent of this decline was due to write downs of assets in the financial sector.

The decline in corporate profits also sapped government coffers, as taxes paid on corporate income fell by 33.1 per cent.

“All the incoming data suggest that the economy will contract by a staggering 7 to 8 per cent in the first quarter, before the economy begins to stabilise,” said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Global Insight.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-26 19:27:07

voz aka clue,

Any news on the hoz man?

Please let him know he is missed.

Comment by robin
2009-03-27 01:33:15

Continually.

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-26 20:02:33

Despite recession, Pittsburgh in a building boom

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Despite-recession-Pittsburgh-apf-14758103.html

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 20:49:29

The best time to grab power is during a dire and unresolved crisis.

Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* MARCH 27, 2009

Geithner Is Overreaching on Regulatory Power
We don’t need more politics in our economics.

By FRANCIS X. DIEBOLD and DAVID A. SKEEL JR.

One of the main proposals in the regulatory reforms outlined by Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner yesterday would give the Treasury, FDIC and the Fed authority to take control when investment banks or other financial institutions (hedge funds, etc.) appear troubled, just as the FDIC presently does with deposit-taking banks.

The proposal is being offered as a clever political solution to the turf war that might have erupted if the Treasury or FDIC alone were given this quasi-nationalization authority, with no input from the Fed. But the real issue is whether this expansion of regulators’ powers is wise. It isn’t.

Comment by Clark
2009-03-26 20:54:42

Geithner Plan II in a 12 min. short chalkboard video shows how it works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-arbfLTCtI

Sieze the popcorn! Still optimistic?

 
 
Comment by Clark
2009-03-26 20:49:32

Geithner Plan II in a 12min. video is it worse than the AIG bonus bailout? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-arbfLTCtI

Still optimistic?

 
Comment by Clark
2009-03-26 20:56:17

youtube.com/watch?v=n-arbfLTCtI

The AIG bonus twin?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-26 21:02:56

The Fed has published papers suggesting they regard mortgage rates to be a “fundamental factor” underpinning home prices. How can a factor which is susceptible to blatant manipulation from a central bank possibly qualify as a fundamental?

I believe this talk of a “home price rally” is pure straw-man hog wash, which ignores the reality that the recent speculative bubble in home prices was a one-time historical anomaly which has crashed hard and far, with further downside distance to go (at least so far as true fundamentals dictate), rather than some kind of stock market type rally.

The one question I keep coming back to is that of to what lengths the Fed might go to try to artificially prop up home prices. This will not work over the long run, but in the long run we are all dead.

Wall Street Journal
* HEARD ON THE STREET
* MARCH 27, 2009

Creaking Floor Under House Prices
By PETER EAVIS

Can home buyers trust the floor they are standing on?

In response to gigantic government efforts to support the mortgage market, house prices are showing signs that they mightn’t have much further to fall.

But prices have to be built on more than cheap financing. Indeed, government leverage could set the stage for another downdraft if the wider economy doesn’t recover fast.

However, two countervailing forces could thwart a (home price) rally.

First, borrowers mightn’t want to take on more mortgage debt while personal balance sheets are still stressed, something not reflected by the affordability index. At the end of last year, personal disposable income covered 75% of household liabilities. In 1991, it was 114%.

Second, rising unemployment could continue to take a heavy toll. It makes the employed more cautious about large purchases, but unemployment does most damage by driving foreclosures higher — even among borrowers with sounder personal balance sheets.

The delinquency data aren’t encouraging. In particular, defaults are now rising on loans made before 2006 — when lending standards started to deteriorate sharply. In January, Alt-A loans made in 2005 had a cumulative default rate of 4.2%, up from 0.64% a year earlier, according to First American CoreLogic. The default rate on 2005 prime mortgages that didn’t qualify for purchase by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac was 0.56% in January, up from 0.07% a year earlier.

Even Fannie Mae’s 2005 mortgages, most of which should have been conservatively underwritten, are suffering unusually high default rates.

Given this backdrop, the government will be tempted to keep stepping up mortgage subsidies. The risk: Buyers are lured in by artificially cheap financing, only to find the house-price floor subsequently gives way.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-27 00:59:04

Once again, they miss the obvious. Let housing prices drop to where people can afford to buy them without going into debt. The deeper the debt the less people have to spend.

Comment by CA renter
2009-03-28 04:13:17

Exactly, sf.

They can’t be that stupid, can they? :(

 
 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-03-26 22:48:14

Soo Locks open to empty waterways — The locks opened for the season at 0001 on Wed. 17 hours elapsed before first commercial vessel passed, stoking concerns that season will be unusually slow.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-03-26 23:19:35

Cleveland thief stealing houses Lenard, 30, of Garfield Heights is behind bars after police arrested him for allegedly stealing a home in Richmond Heights.

“He was apparently getting addresses online of houses that were in foreclosure,” said Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason. “And guys like him can just roll in and put up a rent sign and start renting away.”

Richmond Heights detectives said that Lenard broke into a foreclosed home, changed the locks and advertised the home as available for rent. Lenard was sentenced to 4 years, 11 months in jail in 2006 for a similar crime. But he served only one year before a judge granted him an early release from prison in March, 2007.

 
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