Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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How many people are seeing those handwritten signs on yellow cardboard offering to buy your house or help with your bills?
LOL. There out in my neighborhood…
are those signs written and posted by apprentices to the investor who wrote up and posted “RE investor seek apprentices, starting at 20K/month” all over?
What the heck are those signs? They are everywhere in the San Fernando Valley.
Deb,
Thanks for your update on the SFV yesterday. Remember last year it seemed Easter marked the end of the spring rally. If that’s the case this year, I think the rally was a bit more muted. What do you think?
The market was flying high this time last year. There were less than 2000 houses on the market and nearly that many sales per month. The inventory really started to shoot up in May 2005, but it had a long way to go. It has continued its upward path ever since, with barely a pause for the holidays. The inventory is now triple what it was last year. Sales are dramatically lower.
I track the MLS everyday, and I can tell you that sales have fallen off a cliff the last couple weeks. Suddenly, we are back to the number of pending sales we were seeing in FEBRUARY!!! Sales should be skyrocketing right now. This is the season.
Also, I am seeing some houses being priced more agressively. Still lots of overpriced crap, but that doesn’t sell.
As some of you know, I have been watching this market like a hawk for two years. I have been reluctant to say that lower prices were finally on the horizon. I am thrilled to say that I think I see them coming now.
As an example of what I am seeing very recently, one area I watch very closely is Calabasas. In the last week, there have been 20 new listings & 6 BOMs (homes fell out of escrow), while exactly 2 (yes TWO) homes went to pending sales status!
I saw the same very sign in San Diego.. at the corner of First Avenue and University (or Robinson). But, does the apprentice ‘pay’ the $20k? Or, is that the apprentice’s income?
My code officers are finding more of these kinds of signs again after a couple of slow years. Work at home and make $5,000/mo.; I buy homes; bankrupt?; and my favorite, Viagra by mail. They are also sparring with real estate agents over illegal signs more than ever.
I live near the beach in HB.
I see these all the time when walking the dog. They are not legal and it would be great if cops started ticketing for littering.
I just knock them over.
All over the place in San Diego. I also see lots of the Seeking Apprentice signs handwritten and preprinted.
I saw 6 yellow hand-painted signs, in a San Diego suburb shopping center, advertising the sale of a condo this weekend. “Must Go” and the phone number.
In SD (Rancho Penasquitos) today, I saw an Open House sign with “Or Rent” hand-scrawled across the bottom.
I also saw a handprinted flier over at the local rec club advertising a camper van for sale for the low price of $59,999. I have long suspected this van (which is nomadically parked on different blocks around my ‘hood from one night to the next) was a HELOC-purchased luxury item, and it looks as though the home equity cashout ATM that provided for its upkeep may be running on empty. (It also must be expensive to keep $3/gal gasoline in the tank of a behemoth that cannot possibly get over 10mpg).
Just saw a blurb on one of the network nightly (ABC?, NBC?) newscasts regarding those signs. They were warning people off of calling the phone number and interviewed a lady in NJ who was about to lose her home because of one of those “companies”.
The scam is: For a fee, they offer “help” to people who can no longer afford the mortgage payment. The homeowner signs their house over “temporarily”, to the company. The company then pays the mortgage (not!).
Then the owner gets a letter from the bank saying they’re going to foreclose.
The beginning of the housing market scam/fraud news on the nightly network news. It’s starting. More disgusting details and episodes to come.
Washington Post article from today:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/21/AR2006042101720.html?sub=new
Lots of bitter, angry investors.
The article mentioned the Real Estate Blogs.
David Bath, what a name!
That’s nothing. We went to see a jeweler this week, and his name is Rock Hard. His real name! Google it.
Renting and loving it.
Shalimar
“I don’t want a one-bedroom anymore,” she said. “I want a two-bedroom. Now people are begging people to buy one-bedrooms. The market is better. I couldn’t have bought a two-bedroom last fall and prices for one-bedrooms are falling.”
What?? You want a two-bedroom now? Stop and think for a minute! If that happened in just a few months, what do you think the market will be like in another 6 months, a year, two years? IMO - if you could wait until now to buy, you can’t afford not to wait and see what the market is like by the end of this year. If it’s as bad as I think it will be, you’ll be waiting even longer.
not surprised it was Kirstin Downey instead of the RE editor Maryann Haggarty to release a less-than-rosey view of the DC market. that editor has shill written all over her pieces.
priceless quote from Mike Pugh, a real estate agent with Re/Max Allegiance in Arlington, when discussing his client’s (an actual condo owner-occupant/i.e. non-flipper) quickly deteriorating situation: “We aren’t investors, but we are being punished by the market as though we were.” i bet Mike’s flipped props for plenty of specu-vestors the past 36 months.
Robert Toll, chairman and chief executive of Toll Brothers Inc., which builds luxury homes, said in a recent conference call with analysts that the Washington market was the hardest-hit in the nation by investors who bought properties intending to flip them, and who have put the homes up for sale. “We can feel the impact of speculative play coming back into the market,” he said.
Sure Bob, the D.C. market was the hardest hit - except for South FLA, SOCAL, Vegas, etc. I don’t think this guy has ever told the truth in his entire life. Yeah, I know - it capitalism, so he’s allowed to say whatever he wants in his quest to gobble up every last remaining dollar that exists before he exits the planet.
Lou:
I love that picture with all the lockbox on one bench!
I know. Ain’t that a great picture?
Gary Watts was interviewed for the OC Register RE blog.
See it here:
http://blogs.ocregister.com/lansner/archives/2006/04/insider_qa_gary_watts_1.html#more
Auction start working on one of your famous double space and devastating posts!
John Doe:
Dig out some facts on Gary’s quips “rich people only”, no one will ever see in forclosures in OC, and his famous Chewbacca defense anti-bubble talking points for the RE industrial complex. How about some of the outlandish comments from your blog and posts regarding accuracy within X%.
Jon Lansner has recently cracked down on some of the schoolyard tactis so think out your posts and let ‘em rip.
I think I effectively torn him a new one over there.
Gotta love the drama of the real estate agent dude that shot himself in the head at the pier, after putting three shells in a dude he thought was doing his wife.
Apparently, the guy was president of his Irvine HOA, too.
But, of course, none of this has anything to do with Real Estate.
Nothing to see here, kids. Move on.
Did you see the picture in the Independent?
Great shot. Suicide dudes Jeep in front of the Pier.
And the banner over the Pier reads “Clean Up The Beach Day!!”
I thought that was HYSTERICAL in a Bret Easton Ellis way.
I didn’t see the drama.
I have been buried at work (training a new guy) and preparing for the newborn.
Maybe some surf tomorrow morning though.
I will look up the HB independent.
I am a big fan of dark and violent humor, early Quentin Tarantino, etc.
I just posted another comment at the OCR blog.
Essentially, from a societal perspective someone has to be the Henry Blodgett of the Housing Bubble and Gary is it.
We will see what kind of hack job Jon does to it throught the edit process.
Here is the post:
I had a thought about this whole debate.
From a societal perspective someone has to be the Henry Blodgett of the housing bubble.
Henry Blodgett made millions during the stock market bubble. He was shown to be duplicitous, disgraced, fired and did NOT go to jail. He is now a freelance writer with millions of dollars.
How is that not a happy ending for Henry Blodgett?
The risk for Gary and other blindly bullish RE “economists” is that he could also become the Frank Quattrone of the RE bubble and go to jail and be tied up in lawsuits for the foreseeable future.
The BIG IF is IF you can look at yourself in the mirror and stomach the fact that your advice and prognostications cost your fellow citizens fortunes and ruined some peoples lives.
In the end it is the American way.
Start a company or a forecast with a brilliant idea to pump it up and get your IPO and millions.
Keep pumping until it blows up and hope to stay out of jail or get the Mike Milliken treatment and come out the other side a very rich man.
Then as one is nearing their death donate a ton of money to charity to clean up your name for posterity.
I can’t say that I blame Gary Watts for his behavior around this mind-boggling huge RE bubble. I seriously doubt if most people reading this were presented the same opportunity they would do it any differently.
Jon edited out this segment.
The risk for Gary and other blindly bullish RE “economists” is that he could also become the Frank Quattrone of the RE bubble and go to jail and be tied up in lawsuits for the foreseeable future.
The BIG IF is IF you can look at yourself in the mirror and stomach the fact that your advice and prognostications cost your fellow citizens fortunes and ruined some peoples lives.
Hey Auction:
Your Elvis and exotic mortgages post was brilliant over at OCR.
Last April, I was looking for a 2 bed condo in Middlesex county in New Jersey and it was going for 235K. I was researching and once I started reading this blog, I thought of not buying that, rather continue renting. But then the price went upto 265K for the same. Just this morning my agent called me saying that the same condo is in market again, the seller re-listed for 250K and is very motivated and “will accept any offer”. I told him to contact me again when the price is around 150k. But now prices are coming down, may be another 1 or 2 years down, I can afford a SFH somewhere in one of those “desired” places. Thanks to Ben and to everybody else whose contribution helped me deciding correctly.
Good for you Susan! Just be patient, take piano lessons or something, and wait it out. It’s a lot easier when you can see it up close in the face, isn’t it? Pull the trigger when you’re ready and don’t ever look back…
I wish I had not bought in 2005 and waited . I would love to be a renter right now waiting for the great deals .
Good advice DC_Too to Suan. We sold a McMansion and are living way below our standards, but we know the sacrifice will reap huge rewards. Factor in the ripple affect from this energy crisis, inflation, etc…., and housing doesn’t have a change. I’m an Accountant/ R E Broker. Susan, you’re on the right path. You’d be commiting financial suicide buying now.
Thanks. What I did is saved the amount over rent (which I would otherwise pay for mortage) and bought stocks of Silver, Gold and Energy. I think I am in good shape now. Ben’s money and metal blogs rock too. Even if I get 20% return (which is already there) on that investment, I should be happy.
If you have a 20% return, then sell and be happy. The whole stock market is about to turn after this tremendous bear market rally, most likely within a month. Even gold should go down for a while; it seems to be in a bull market, but it is due for a pullback. This of course is my opinion, but you should at least give it consideration. Locking in 20% gains isn’t a bad idea, especially if you have a large amount invested.
Kim, Thanks for suggestion. But how do you be certain about the fact that most likely in a month stocks will go down. What is your basis for timing the market in such a way? I am not opposing your views, but just trying to learn things as they are.
20% return is nothing. All my winning stocks are up at least 40%, the losers I sell at 10% loss. If I started selling at 20% I’d be missing out on a lot of gains.
Kim,
You should read the sentence again. “How do you be certain about the fact that most likely in a month stocks will go down”? Certain and most likely don’t jive, but that is exactly the case when you are talking about things that involve humans and their emotions. Just because fundamentals say one thing, it can take a very long time for that to correct. There isn’t anything certain. Just look at the fundamentals. As for selling and “locking” in your gains, what are you going to receive when you sell? The USD? Are you sure you’ll be “locking” in your gains? What about the Euro or Yen? I sold other things I had in the USD, and “locked” in my gains by buying gold and silver. It depends on a lot of things and a lot of others emotions. However, you decide what you feel are appropriate fundamentals by your research, and make your decision appropriately. Hope that helps.
What I said was that my opinion was that the stock market was about to turn probably within a month. I didn’t say anything about it being a fact. I base my belief on predictions by Elliot Wave International; I have been a fan of Robert Prechter for years and I feel he is right on (except for being too early) about the big picture of what has been happening ever since he came out co-authering a book in 1978 to announce that a huge bull stock market was coming (except even he had no idea of how enormous it would turn out to be). When he predicted in 1982 or 1983 that the Dow would reach 3600 most people said he was crazy because everyone was convinced that was impossible. His main problem is that his timing is early, but I believe that this time his timing is right because the RE market is also finally turning now, as the people on this blog already know. The stock market has been propped up by the “real estate ATM,” and that is going away. I don’t believe the bear market rally would have carried nearly so far and so long without the RE bubble. Prechter has several books for anyone who is interested in finding out what his ideas are. If the stock market is about to drop then selling now does lock in gains because you will be able to buy stocks again later at a cheaper price than you sold. Or I believe later you will be able to spend it on more RE after that drops, if that is what you want. Even if some things keep inflating in price, at least the stock market and RE should deflate and give some good buys for the patient.
According to EWI gold is also about to have a pullback, too, because it has completed a five wave run up since it began its new bull market. It could lose more than 50% of the gains from the last few years. It could take several years for this to happen. I know there are a lot of people here who are into gold, but even gold in a bull market is not immune to pullbacks. It is usual at the start of a bull market to see a serious pullback after the first run up.
The fundamentals that I see are that the stock market has had a big run up based on debt spending, not a solid economic recovery, and now it is ripe to complete the bear market that began in 2000, which will drop far lower than the first phase and RE is ready to drop with it.
I don’t have any opinion about the Euro or Yen except that after 15 years of deflation in Japan it seems more likely that the Yen will drop in value compared to the dollar if they are actually beginning to experience inflation again, as they have been saying, especially if we exerience a RE and stock deflation at the same time. I am not knowledgable about foreign currencies so I can’t really give much of a comment.
Since I am expecting deflation we keep our money in US treasury bills. I only buy the 3 month now because I noticed that rates are going up so fast I am making more on my 3 month bills than the 6 month bills I bought a few months ago. The current rate is higher than the 1 year CD’s at my very conservative bank. Anyone with $1000 or more can buy Treasury Bills with no fees direct from the government at Treasury Direct online. They changed the name a little, but a search on Treasury Direct will get you there.
It sounds like you’re certainly knowledgable about the subject. I agree with nearly all based on my own knowledge on the subject. My only difference is believing that US T bills are “safe”. Not backed by anything other than faith (that faith being in politicians essentially..and you have to ask yourself how many politicians would you trust with your financial life). Seeing as we have surpassed any record in the history of man as far as a nation and it’s debt goes, that to me is pretty risky. Sure it’s debatable, but I’ve been hard pressed to hear an argument changing my beliefs. Maybe you have one?
Since the government can print money at will I think you are certain to get your principle back. It just might not be worth much when you get it.
USD may not appreciate against gold or euros in the upcoming year, but it will almost definitely appreciate against houses.
“My only difference is believing that US T bills are “safe”.”
I agree that T bills may not always be safe, so I am not going to try to change your beliefs on that point. That is one reason I buy 3 month bills to stay as liquid as possible so that I can change to other assets when the right time arrives. It is my belief that if the government keeps going the way it is now some day a default on its obligations may come to pass. The US government actually already defaulted in the 30’s when it refused to repay the bonds in gold as promised, which I am sure is one reason they made owning gold illegal; so that they would not have to repay in gold, but in paper, so there is no doubt that the government will weasel its way out of its obligations as much as it can. In spite of that, I feel that Treasury bills are reasonably safe right now compared with other options. I feel certain that USD will appreciate against stocks, bonds, RE and probably precious metals during the next few years, maybe the deflation period will be shorter or longer but st this moment I feel that there is more risk in any of these asset classes than in T Bills.
I expect that within 5 years I will buy a substantial amount of gold, and I would like to see our money back to a gold standard and for the government to stop stealing from the people using inflation as a hidden tax. But I just don’t think that right now at what appears to be the top of a big run is a good time to buy into gold any more than it is a good time to buy into RE.
I buy 3 month T bills on different months so that any month I want I can get part of the money out if I wish for the most liquidity.
Kim: I have been a Precter fan to for along time, since I read his book and his prediction for a Great stock rally…then we were mire in a 16 yr sideways trend…between DJI 1067 - 576… However he has BADLY missed the survival ambitions of the central bankers, government officials.
Although I made a token purchase of gold around 286 thinking we would be able dollar cost average…no such luck..Last summer I began to smell a rat, as Precter kept calling for a gold rally end and reversal That was around 420/oz; I now buy every month on the 9th and 24th.This week it traded near 650…Yes and Precter put out a special report on gold and silver “topping” I don’t care how much it drops! After witnessing this silver rally and watching the debt bubble in Real Estate…I figure gold could trade over $6,000 an oz, based on prices from the 1970’s versus now….Oil, housing, utilities, autos, CEO pay, did I leave anything out.
Meanwhile the crooks in charge of it all continue reporting that inflation is 3%
All these government currencies as DEBASED and only a deflationary depression as Precter calls for could save us from world wide Argintina style inflation
Folks,
What I really love are the “experts” on TV stating that the inflation adjusted record price for oil is $80..ish. Talk about absolute insanity. Let me get this straight. You calculate core inflation by taking out energy (oil). Then you try to tell me what the inflation adjusted price of the thing is that you don’t count in the first place!?!? Every time I hear that on TV, I literally scream. How dumb do the politicians and gov’t think the American people are? I don’t think Americans are stupid, I think for some strange reason that if people hear someone on radio or TV say something, it is coming direct from some omniscient being. Come on people. What was the top price of oil in 1980? Around $30 something? No one was saying that we were in a deflationary period from 1980 to 2001. In 2001 it was around $10 or so. Since then to now approaching $80, that is darned near 800%. No wonder why PMs are going vertical. Incredible what people won’t question.
Inspired,
Yes, I agree that Prechter is not very good at picking exact tops and bottoms, just at seeing the large picture, but that is enough to make him worth listening to. I already said that the reason that I think he is right this time on the timing is because I am convinced that the housing bubble is turning now, because of this blog; it isn’t turning yet in my area.
As far as gold is concerned, you have picked a logical strategy that fulfills your desire to buy gold based on your belief that it will rise to a very high point at some time, and you are aware that it could drop and you have that figured into your calculations. I don’t have any problem with that. I was just warning that if someone was going to take their money out of stocks to lock in gains, my opinion is that they shouldn’t just put it in gold right now out of fear of inflation. If they want to develope a strategy for when and how they think it is best to buy gold that is another question entirely. Personally I don’t care whether I ever buy gold or not so I haven’t been watching it that carefully. I made a decision a number of years ago that if and when I felt at some point gold was clearly be a good buy I would buy it and that point has not come yet for me.
Gold is actually money, money with a normally constant value, except at rare times when either the supply is unusually high or demand is unusually high because of fear. It is actually the fiat money that changes in value more than the gold. Lately gold has been rising mainly because of inflation and fear of inflation. It has been running up with housing and I feel that it will drop with housing and may even bottom at the same time as housing which would make it a poor value holder compared to dollars for people who are looking to save value in order to buy a house, although I do not expect that it will drop as much as housing.
You are right in saying that a deflation is the only thing that will save us from hyperinflation. We are near the brink right now and I think the Fed knows it and that is why they are raising the interest rates. Although people on this blog have said that the housing bubble is the target of the rise in rates I believe that the price of gold has as much influence because the price of gold is one of the signs that trust in fiat dollars is declining. The government and the Fed know that a hyperinflation, once it begins, is impossible to stop once faith in the currency is lost, and it does more damage and is harder for people who understand money to hold on to the value of their money, and they all have money and value they want to save. I think they fear hyperinflation more than deflation, which they should, not only to avoid personal loss but because a hyperinflation would be worse for the country. But they still think they can just have a little recession to keep things under control, but they will fail in that because things have gone too far. So they are raising the rates a little, not too much so they won’t get too much blame for the recession/depression, and behind the scenes they are tightening the money supply by putting pressure on the banks; someone posted the URL for an article last month twice about that. That will be their main weapon because they want to keep the public from realizing that they triggered the change deliberately.
You base your belief that gold will rise to $6000 or so on what happened in the 70’s. I do agree that it may happen eventually, but I don’t believe it will happen soon. It was inflation that caused gold to rise at first in the 70’s. Probably actual inflation was responsible for the rise up to about $400, part of the monetary inflation happened before the 70’s but the fact that foreigners could get gold for their dollars helped keep the value up, once our money became completly fiat it was bound to bounce up. Fear of inflation was driving the price up to $600, I am not saying there was no inflation during that period, I am just saying that the amount that gold went up during the 70’s was more than the amount of inflation by far so fear was driving it. The jump to $800 happened because the Carter administration put a freeze on Iranian assets in the USA during the Iranian hostage crisis. The people who were holding the hostages didn’t have any assets in the USA and the world saw this as an unexpected event. Every foreigner from nations with not too good relationships with the USA wondered if his assets could be frozen, too, and they started to unload their US bonds to protect their money and bond prices dropped and interest rates shot up to dizzying heights. At the same time a general world panic over the safety of assets and fiat money drove people everywhere to buy gold. If it had not been for the freeze on Iranian assets gold would not have gone so high. With such a huge percentage of our bonds being held by foreigners there is no way our government could put a freeze on the assets of any foreign nation right now without extreme cause that was well recognized by the whole world. Our government would be in instant default and interest rates would skyrocket. They can’t let that happen. If we see gold up to $6000 it will be because of crisis such as this and we aren’t too that point yet, and I hope we don’t get there.
Contrary to others a 20% return is phenomenal/great! Manhattan Island was purchased by dutch settlers for the sum of ~$20 (at the time a lot of money). If that $20 had been invested at a 9% annual return, the descendants could buy all of Manhattan plus all the development that has occurred to date. Greed will suck up your 20% faster than any realestate broker.
(Florida panhandle)…I signed up for an automatic email service from a local Realtor ™ that gives me new listings and price changes…there were $20,000 price reductions on two houses this morning.
That’s the highest I’ve seen…up until now, the ones that were just sitting on the MLS would offer a $3-5K reduction, then wait a few weeks then offer another $3-5K reduction, etc.
That’s nothin’. One house in my neighborhood just reduced $300k this week. Yep, $1.679M to 1.379M in one fell swoop. Mind you, it was hidiously overpriced to begin with.
$1 - Desperate Landlords lol
——————————————————————————–
Reply to: hous-145656999@craigslist.org
Date: 2006-03-27, 12:40PM EST
Hi there,
So in your frantic drive to buy any piece of residential real estate in Miami, you forgot to do you homework… There is no middle class in Miami my friends. No one can afford to subsidize your $3000 mortgage by renting your overpriced apartment for $1500 a month. Your cousin/brother/best friend real estate agent was dead wrong. Sorry.
Bankruptcy and foreclosure are on their way… he he… I’d give it about 6 months..
I will be there to buy your place at the government sale.
Signed — Smarter than you.
http://miami.craigslist.org/apa/145656999.html
Speaking of handwritten sigs, I pulled of the Interstate in Sarasota last week and at the red light there was a big handwritten sign that said ‘FOR SALE….3 Houses….MUST SELL’. I got a chuckle out of that. Wish I had a camera phone…….
This has already been blogged on patrick.net and I saw a few familiar handles among the commenters, but in case you missed it, there was a great column in Tuesday’s Financial Times by Sir Martin Wolf, entitled “Dangers of the housing market delusion.” The full article is hidden behind a subscription wall at ft.com, but here are few of the money quotes:
“Do higher house prices make a country richer? The answer is simply ‘no’…. Higher prices merely redistribute income among residents, prinicpally from the young [who are saving to buy the inflating asset] to the old [who already own the inflating asset].
….
“Where prices have risen far faster than underlying incomes, only two possibilities exist. Either prices have moved to a higher equilibrium level, in which case future purchasers will have to save more and consume less. That would itself have significant economic implications. Or they have reached an unsustainable level, in which case they will fall in real terms. That would have more significant economic implications.”
Some good graphs too, also copied onto patrick.net
The median prices now being reported are nearly worthless now, as we a seeing large drops in sales volume in the lower two-thirds of the market, and flat sales in the top tier, which skews the data. This is clearly evident in scanning Orange County, California sales data, which shows a very large volume drop in properties under $600,000.
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/money/atoz/article_1109338.php
That link has the price per sq. foot up 17% or so in one year. Still pretty high. It may have platued, but still 17% in one year (to over $400 / sq foot!) is high.
I am in mourning.
The great satirical blog: There is no housing bubble! is no more.
Did anybody archive it while it was up?
The original post was priceless: Debt is wealth!
Oops forgot the link.
http://thereisnohousingbubble.blogspot.com/
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:eP44SPlm6lQJ:thereisnohousingbubble.blogspot.com/+there+is+no+housing+bubble+blog+%22debt+is+wealth%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
Tuesday, February 14, 2006
Debt is Wealth — look at all the great societies the world has produced and you see one thing in common: debt. Debt builds wealth. Imagine if there was no debt and no ability to borrow. Want a $50K BMW? You have to pay cash. Want a plasma TV? You have to pay cash. Want a house? You have to pay cash. How long would most people be able to function in such a world? It would be a nightmarish place filled with poor, unhappy people. However by introducing debt into people’s lives you gain the ability to procure wealth. People can leverage that debt to purchase homes, cars, needed consumer goods, etc. The debt allows people to create wealth for themselves and also for other people too. Everyone wins in a debt fueled society except perhaps the gold hoarding no debt renter who keeps expecting civilization to collapse. For them the debt fueled world is a nightmare in which they fill up their minds with imaginary gloom and rationalize why all this wealth will lead to disaster.
Slavery is Freedom — I remember reading once someone saying that they did not want to become a slave to their home. They felt the seeming high prices of homes today means they are slaves to the house, spending weekends fixing up the house or working second jobs to make the mortgage payment. But what they don’t realize is the freedom the home gives you. You see, every hour spent putting in granite countertops or fixing the yard is money in your pocket. You are using your time to create wealth. And every nickel you put into that mortgage from that second or third job comes back to you dressed up as a twenty dollar bill. This wealth creation gives you freedom. If you need $100K to give your child an Ivy League education you can use the wealth created by your home to fund it. Try doing that with your canceled rent checks and see how far that gets you. If you need Bruno Magli shoes and an Armani suit for a social function you can tap your home equity line of credit and the best part is you get to deduct it all from your taxes. Thank you Uncle Sam! This so called slavery leads to the greatest freedom a human can possess: the freedom to do anything.
Fear is Happiness — one of the main reasons why people stay renters is fear of failure. They are afraid if they buy a house they might lose everything. They see isolated instances of this happening and assume that they will be one of these unlucky few. However, by embracing the fear and buying one or multiple homes you open the door the complete and joyous happiness. Every home owner is afraid the first time they buy a house. They have those lingering doubts that perhaps it is a mistake. But as time passes, and the massive equity builds, they realize that the fear of success has been supplanted by happiness at their wisdom of purchasing a home.
But enough sloganeering, let’s talk some real world numbers for a bit. Let’s say you do something wise, you purchase a home in California for $500,000. This beautiful and desirable home will appreciate by about 20% per year. Therefore after 30 years that home that the renter unwisely turned his nose up to will be worth a little over $100 million. Now let’s say you are even wiser than this. Let’s say you use the rapidly rising equity in this dream home to purchase another undervalued home every year. So you’ll earn 30*$100 million or over 3 BILLION dollars. That’s right, you’ll become one of the richest people in the world and all you did was sit back and let debt work for you. Imagine all of the wondrous things you could do with $3 billion. You could buy a whole fleet of Hummers, a plasma TV for every room of your house. Perhaps lunch in Paris and dinner in Tokyo while you jet around in your private plane? Whatever your heart desired all brought about by the magic of home ownership.
Now, some of you embittered renters probably think this is some unrealistic fantasy. But let’s try to understand what the future will hold (we are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives) by looking at the past. If you look at history there has never been any period of time where home prices declined. Never. Even if you go back to Ugh selling the first cave to Ooog for 3 rocks and a wooden club, I guarantee you Ooog made money. No matter when, where, or how you look at it, home prices always go up in the long term. Sure, you might find some isolated instances where home prices declined for a short period of time but even after that aberration prices returned to their normal higher trend.
So what will the future be like? It will be a lot like the middle ages. You will have a landed aristocracy (home owners) and you will have the poor, embittered, masses (renters). These few, these happy few, these home owners, will have everything their heart desires because either they or their parents/grandparents/etc were able to see the coming changes in society and intelligently using debt were able to buy mountains of wealth for themselves and their decedents. Since 70% of Americans now own their own home, we will be an amazingly wealthy nation. We will leverage this wealth to run the rest of the world. But, sadly, 30% of Americans will be left behind with no hope of a better life. And like the serf of the middle ages they will leave to their children nothing but ashes. Ashes of dreams. Ashes of hopes. Nothing but servitude to their landed betters. What a hopeless existence they will have.
Unfortunately, a lot of reckless people are throwing about words like “bubble” to try to ruin people’s lives. They are trying to use fear and ignorance as a weapon to destroy the lives of this future aristocracy. I believe they have one of two motives. Either they are looking into the abyss and see that they will never own a home so like an angry two year old they want to destroy the hopes of everyone else. Or they are greedy and want to drive prices down temporarily so they can snatch up this wealth from those foolish enough to heed their advice. But remember friend, when a man looks into the abyss he finds his character. For most of us, it strengthens our resolve to do whatever it takes to become one of these rich, happy landowners. For the frightened renter/bubble advocate, it causes fear and resentment to want to ruin other people’s lives. Don’t become one of these pathetic wretches.
That is why I’m writing this blog, to educate the few redeemable renters out there. To let them know that if they take a chance and let debt, slavery, and fear into their lives they’ll find wealth, freedom, and happiness.
Am I to hold my manhood cheap because I did not buy a home on this St. Crispan’s day?
There is no housing bubble because it’s impossible to have housing bubbles and real estate never goes down and there’s never ever been a housing bubble so why should there be one now and everyone needs to live somewhere and look at all the immigrants coming in and they’re not making any more land and the baby boomers are all buying second homes and we have entered an entirely new valuation model and this is the ownership society and there are all kinds of innovative financing methods that help people buy houses and renting is throwing money away and people who don’t buy now will be priced out forever and real estate has always been the best investment ever so therefore there is no housing bubble. And even if there is a housing bubble which is a stupid thing to think in the first place it will pop in other places but not where MY house is because where MY house is is the absolutely PERFECT place to live and MY house will keep going up just not as fast.
The perfect summation of the Chewbacca defense of RE bullishness.
Although someone over at the OC Registers blogs have taken liberties with the bear case and the stream of consciouness writing.
It is annoying to read but makes a point.
There is a nice irony there, because not only is the stupid blog (which may have actually been very clever satire in the guise of stupidity) has gone out of existence at the very time the bubble itself is doing the same…
Get Stucco:
Normally you are pretty bright but if you didn’t know that the blog was satire it is time to get your satire detector checked.
I did get the Google cache of the main posts on a Word doc today captured for posterity.
SunsetBeachguy!
Truth is, that is OUR MONEY…
IF ALL DEBTS are paid there would be no mo’ money!
Just look on the front “Federal Reserve Note” - a note is a promise to pay..
Sorry!, But that is the SORRY state of our world currencies…you see since debt is money the bankers beleive sooner or later it will find productive uses rather than pure speculations i.e Real estate and stocks, derivatives, options ETF’s, mutual funds 1st & 2nd & 3rd Trust Deeds.. Meanwhile the alpha dog bankers count us as slaves!
We give our time & talent and they give us a promise to pay…then they turn millions (1800’s) to Billions (1900) Trillions (2000) Quadrillions by (2011)? while avg. wages go $1/hr to 20/ per hour!
“Yes ser masser”, we say everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. So we give back 20-40% of our measely wages…So they can dole it out to their freinds. Cheat us out of another 6-7% called FICA on the hope that we die before we collect.
As for making gold or other tangible assets illegal to hold as posted above ….F@#$%#@ them! That plan wokred then, it won’t work again…and if it does then we don’t have a brain and deserve being FLEECED for the 6th time in our Country’s history
Nothing I didn’t already know.
I too had a Liberterian, gold bug phase in my youth.
I prefer to focus my time on activities that have a higher degree of effectiveness than to rail against fiat money.
Fiat money is the world standard. Don’t fight standards even if they are a bad. For example Microsoft and fiat money.
Check this out…Beverly Hills Breaks $4 Gas Barrier
Some drivers shrug at the Rodeo Drive prices, while others look elsewhere for bargains.
http://tinyurl.com/o29p6
Some one tell me when the Bakersfield will go down?!?!? local paper today has the 1st qtr numbers out: sales down 25% YOY, however, prices up 19% YOY. UGH. I am the lone voice in this speculator market.
http://www.bakersfield.com
Crispy:
Take it easy man, nobody ever said it would be fast.
Put your tinfoil hat on, the federal reserve had to cause a RE bubble to blunt the impact of the Dot bomb bubble and 9/11. Now that most Americans are leveraged neck deep in an illiquid asset they can begin the creative destruction process of all of that funny money locked up in RE and very few will be able to avoid that pain, except for readers here.
Long slow and grinding, settle in with some popcorn and enjoy the show.
Thanks for the words of encouragement. The RE crowd here, like all other markets, drowns out the voices of reason.
BTW - Nice post in the OC register on the Watts story.
The least we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable (and arrogant).
Sunsetbeachguy -
You said “…Put your tinfoil hat on, the federal reserve had to cause a RE bubble to blunt the impact of the Dot bomb bubble and 9/11. Now that most Americans are leveraged neck deep in an illiquid asset they can begin the creative destruction process of all of that funny money locked up in RE and very few will be able to avoid that pain, except for readers here”.
Can you elaborate with more specificity?
Credit destruction is much more difficult in overpriced but still relatively liquid assets like stocks.
On the other hand residential RE is a bit uinique. Everyone needs to own or rent one and they are comparitively illiquid.
If credit/money destruction needs to happen across the board housing is where they want it to be so as a matter of managing the macro-economy their steered the excess liquidity to housing because it is the most palatable of a bunch of bad options.
Bakersfield will have some nice empty houses soon…Unless business shows up to provide employment
why does anyone live there?
Ive been there and it’s not a retirement attraction!
SD ziprealty inventory shows 19,185 this morning (95 short of July 1995’s high water mark of 19,280), and only four homes with today’s listing date. It looks as though this is the weekend the SD for-sale inventory officially charts off into unknown territory. Does anyone think SD inventory will eventually surpass PHX, once the FBs run out of cash flow and all the investors have lost faith?
“Yep, $1.679M to 1.379M in one fell swoop. Mind you, it was hidiously overpriced to begin with.”
You meant to say: “in one swell poop,” didn’t you?
I think they’re in big do-do. Rent it for a mere $1000-day.
Buy or Rent this $6,000,000 Mansion
Reply to: see below
No contact info listed below? Let them know.
Date: 2006-04-20, 6:33AM CDT
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This home is gated and secluded and is perfect for corporate retreats, weddings, fundraisers, high profile parties,
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i say we rent that sucker throw a bubble party and trash that mutha
Had an contractor over this week. Anyways, I knew him via friend of a family member. His oldest son is selling new construction homes in Indy. Now Indy is in a small bubble and I have proof that the bubble has popped. This guys kid is selling for Centrex or something. They put him in a ‘ghetto’ area, for lack of a better word. Know that Indy is very different. Counties are a big deal here and most cities/towns and school districts don’t cross county borders in the Indy MSA. Basically, the minorities were mostly in the old city while white flight (actually, more like class flight…but that phrase wouldn’t fit the Jesse Jackson types) had the suburban counties grow over the last two decades.
Now we have cheap vinyl villages. They are doing whatever they can to get folks in: Buydowns, discounts, free add-ons. This guys son sold 5 or 6 homes, but only two people qualified for the mortgage. My guess this neighborhood is on the cheaper side, startin out around $90K. I was shocked, they actually are not approving people.
I hope the whole thing fails. There are two really nice additions near where I live (all stone homes, decent size yards), but they are planning a vinyl village to the NW of me (med. density) with homes starting at $110 (maybe $120). They are just now starting to move the Earth and lay down drainage stuff. I hope things slow down this summer to where they can’t sell anything. I hope they go into a buy and hold the land type deal….maybe selling off an acre or so for private homes.
“But many failed to ferret out investors”
What horsesh*t, they knowingly looked the other way. And once the new owner put that “For Rent” sign out front why didn’t the site agent tip off the mortage company fraud had been commited ? Oh thats right, they looked the other way too while selling that loan ASAP to the next MBS sucker.
Here’s a topic. It popped up out of the blue as I was doing dishes after lunch. I realized that my wife and I know of 4 sets of FB/Homeowners that bought or are buying their current house without bothering to sell their previous primary residence. We don’t know that many people, and we don’t know any other people who have bought within the last year. 4/4 making absolutely insane decisions.
CASE 1: He is a janitor working for LAUSD, I don’t recall what she does, but it’s not anything special. Already living a 1+ hour commute from work. This albatross is the house next to my mom and dad’s house. They bought 2 houses (another hour further away) with their “money”, one for his dad to live in as a joint investment, the other for themselves. They rented the albatross out last year for about 6 months. Then they got scared or relized their mistake. They just moved back a couple of months ago and have listed the two new houses for sale at zero gain (loss if you count commissions). No takers yet.
CASE 2: Acquaintance of my wife, who has a place in Oakland for sale, bought a place in Livermore. Paid full market price for the new place, nobody biting on the old place yet. She moves in this month.
CASE 3: A place we’ve been looking at in the country as a possible home/business. The price is too high for comps, and way too high for us, but we will feel no shame offering 30-40% off their list price. The owners have moved to a new place, and have started working there at their business. The new place is approximately 1.5 hours from their albatross, and is probably cash flow negative, based on my estimates. They paid too much for that place. For the last 2 months, they have lowered prices from $599K to $585K then $580K. Last year, the assessor put the value at 480K, and I put the intrisic value closer to $450K. Add in rising rates, and we’re looking at around $420K or less by next year. They’ll chase the market down for a while, and if there are no greater fools, our demand curve might intersect with their supply curve by the middle of next year.
CASE 4: The most painful one. My sister-in-law just signed a suicide loan on a place. She was panicked that somebody might snatch it up, now that they just lowered the asking from $650K to $580K. I tried to reason with her, but my wife warned me that this would backfire, given her track record. She moved halfway across the country, leaving her unsold home in the backwoods of PA. She has had that on the market for 12 months at $450K, and dropped the price to under $400K just recently. There will be negative appreciation at this price. She has been renting near her new opportunity for financial devastation for about 6 months, in a nice neighborhood, close to hubby’s work, and at a really good rental rate.
So my question is: how many people are in this boat? Our sample size is small, so we can’t draw any conclusions. Anybody personally know of a case of somebody who is currently stuck making two payments because they didn’t sell first?
We were just talking with our neighbors (at our new rental home) and they are buying a house on the next block and getting ready to sell their current house. Our market is still pretty hot here, so they may be OK, but if it starts cooling soon they may have problems.
Two homes we looked at in target area were like this. One has sold after being on market for about 6 mos, other house hasn’t and probably won’t for a while. It’s got issues.
I’ve been a lurker for sometime, gathering information and observing the L.A. area, inparticular San Fernando Valley . Just went by a house w/ some friends who considering $900K for a 1400 s.f. house in Sherman Oaks. This house was bought for $820 in November 2005. Five months later it is listed FSBO at $900K. Major problems with the house. At this price definitely no bargain. Interesting fact is that the owners are delinquent on both tax installments! Of course they are selling because of a job move….. Right. Why anyone wants to buy in this market is beyond me.
I see lockbox clusters like that here in Hillcrest. Good example on the corner of Washington and 8th street. I counted 16 lockboxes on the railing near the door last week. There’s probably at least 60 units in the building
Ha! Katonah NY inventory has now doubled since mid-January.
Forgive my going a bit off subject but I have to share this observation. I am so very impressed reading this blog. The wisdom, humor, obvious educational quality of the group is mind boggling.
You go through your day to day life thinking you are lost in a sea of idiocy in so many arenas and then you come upon such brilliance, clarity of thought, logic and depth and frankly it gives me hope. We are going to need these types of people to dig out.
I am an appraiser and have been calling this situation for 3 years now. I am so happy that there are people like those who post here. We have a shot at working out of this hell hole with people like you. I congratulate each of you for being the forward looking, THINKING, minority.
I am 57 years old and was taught by my midwestern parents that you never ever jeopordize your home and family, for any reason. For that reason I never even contemplated making any withdrawals from my casa ATM.
I am a sociolologist by training and have tried to understand the where and why of all I have observed and I have concluded that the primary culprit, and there are many, are lack of controls in this mess. Left to our basic nature people will follow each other over a cliff, particularly in pursuit of money. There is an old adage which goes, “Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups.”
That being said, it is my opinion that the home mortgage market simply got up to light speed when we were used to a 55 mph speed limit. Greenspan and the other old farts simply did not see that fastball coming and ducked. Not knowing what to do to rein in this roadshow they simply tried to use old tools to handle a new genre’. IMHO using measured rate increases was like turning the nozzle on the hose by giving these whackos fair warning to make it happen and do it now. The market actually went bananas with the first increase in rates. It was already crazy but that is when it really took off.
I have been saying for years that we cannot build houses for each other like the auto industry builds cars, but we did and we are going to have house lots instead of car lots. I have a few observations and I am interested in your thoughts.
1: Is this immigration thing just a way to load up houses again?
2: Is technology a function of this disaster?
3: Do we need a whole new program of controlling capital availability from the investment sector? Minimum and maximum investment vehicles per portfolio? Diversity?
4: Do you think the 30 somethings will come away from this with a lesson or will it be soon forgotten?
5: I have no doubt that we all really believe this is going to be bad. But how bad? People in the streets? Riots?
Frankly I am not sure how bad it might be but i know that it is going to change the very fabric of our society. This younger group has never had it so bad. They are going to be in shock and disbelief.
We, my friends are going to have to pull this thing out of the pit as we are the only group who has any experience with the downside and the workout that comes with it. The younger folks don’t have a clue how to do it and those older are not in the force any longer.
I am more concerned with, what now,rather than where we have been. Again, thanks for your thoughts, wisdom and concern. Remember, we are all in this together, thank God.
The role of the younger people in this debacle is one of the main driving forces IMO. So many things about this mania made no sense to me. Why would people sign up for this type of punishment a second time after the blowup in the early 1990s? What on earth makes 25 year olds think they should be buying 500K and up residences? My god! I’ m in my 40s and have never lived in anything that expensive and never will, despite the fact I could and pay cash for it.
I actually blamed the media and advertisers for a lot of this but that’s a whole nother issue.
1: Is this immigration thing just a way to load up houses again?
Very possibly. You always need new plankton to support the food chain, particularly when it’s a pyramid scheme.
I have a question for you, since you are an appraiser. We got badly burnt carrying two houses once because we bought before selling. It took us a long time to sell and it was because we missed the Spring 2001 market by having way too high a price which a real estate agent AND her brokerage strongly recommended.
I ended up hiring a appraiser for marketing purposes. He recommended a price and that’s what it sold for in just a few weeks. We’d been trying to sell it for near a year.
I would never sell a house again without getting my own such independent appraisal. Yet when I’ve mentioned this on this blog, the agents come out of the woodwork and tell me the appraisers are clueless. I think they’re wrong. But where’s the truth?
Clueless is a pretty strong term. I have missed the target and do not think I am as good as brokers are at listing properties. In fact at one time i renovated houses many years ago and I always got three brokers to tell me where they thought the homes should be priced insofar as a range was concerned. In the end the market told me every time. Until recently the market was a great field leveler. Now, we are all experts aren’t we? NOT!
Great questions, great comments. I’m a regular lurker and infrequent poster, but here’s my take (and I suspect that TXchick57 will echo).
Grew up as a “boomer” but am really in the trough between the boomers and X’ers. Formative memories aren’t Vietnam, Summer of Love, and Woodstock, but gas lines, rampant inflation, defeat at the hands of Iran, Soviet invasion of Afganistan, etc. etc. Sideways stock market; $800 gold, etc. Watched my depression era parents struggle for years in the 1970’s and early 1980’s (and in comparison to many, we had it easy). After grad school (first time) took 6 months to get a decent (not great) job. After an MBA from a good school, another year to find a job (2 graduations, 2 recessions).
But for the last 15 years, things have generally been pretty good for folks starting out. So taking on $500k debt at 28 years old makes sense to them. I think that younger folks (and this IS NOT a criticism) just can’t imagine what even marginally tough times nationwide would be like. Remember when major employers went to Spring Break in FLA to recruit in the late 1990’s? I remember sending 100 letters (not emails) to get 1-2 interviews. It’s just different in the past 15 years>
So they’ve contributed to the runup. One of my 28 year old employees regularly talks about “throwing money away on rent”. So there’s an understandable disconnect between what they’ve experienced and what could be.
Will they learn? Don’t know.
On your other points:
1) Don’t know — but illegals are definitely a glaring example of privitizing profits (by paying sub-market wages employers gain) and socializing expenses (schools, healthcare, infrastructure are consumed and society loses (note — not looses)).
2) Absolutely. Information is more quickly transmitted which speeds up the cycle. Also the dispersion and increase of media tend to result in an “echo chamber” effect — if you only visit “bull” websites, your own prejudices will be reinforced.
3) Nope, you’re on your own (but they are already controlled to a certain degree — there are limits as to how you can invest an IRA).
5) Bad. But not the end of the world. Many people in a world of hurt — probably some future dispensation for a 2007-2010 foreclosure if you want to buy a house in 2015.
Cheers
Bay area newcomer said:
“Grew up as a “boomer” but am really in the trough between the boomers and X’ers. Formative memories aren’t Vietnam, Summer of Love, and Woodstock, but gas lines, rampant inflation, defeat at the hands of Iran, Soviet invasion of Afganistan, etc. etc.”
For the record, I’d just like to point out we never suffered a defeat at the hands of Iran. Those cowardly dirtbags grabbed some innocent hostages and held them for a long time. The very second that Ronald Reagan came into office, Iran released the hostages as they knew the Cartner waekness was gone and Ron was about to fry their asses - whatever it took. No defeat, Quite the contrary - the arrival of President Reagan was all it took for them to back off. The F’n cowards.
I thought so too at the time, but later I learned about the Iran Contra deals going on behind the scenes.
Iran was already dealing with Ollie North before the election and helped the Republicans get back in by holding onto the hostages so Carter would look weak, then released them immediately after the election, allowing Reagan to look like a hero.
We were had, plain and simple.
Reading your post took me back to Viet Nam where I was a Marine machine gunner in the Tet offensive of 1968. I was sitting on a bunker after a brutal firefight cleaning my weapon one afternoon when a Sergeant walked by me and said, “why the long face Marine?” I just looked up and shrugged. He said, “remember this, they can kill ya but they can’t eat ya!” I was not consoled at that thought but in the coming months it may cross my mind once again.
The folks at “Whiskey & Gunpowder” have been asking readers for their take on the next depression. Some children of the Great Depression see the next one being a lot worse. There’s a well-founded fear that it will bring widespread violence, too. People simply aren’t equipped to deal with such circumstances like they were back then.
the government will not be able the appease the lower classes with all the stuff that helps them forget they work in Mikey D’s and live housing projects. It will very bad in the cities when all those luxury condos are occupied by squaters.
TJ,
My dad grew up during the GD and also feels that this one will be much worse.
FWIW, he bought my family 120 acres in the middle of nowhere in case we have to “live off the land.” He’s a bit extreme, but he’s the one who lived through hard times. The farmers were best off in the last depression because they could grow their own food.
For some reason, I also think this depression will be marked by violence. I really hope things will not get as bad as they potentially can.
Its pouring here on Long Island this peak home selling weekend for the hundreds of open houses in the Newsday. Its is forcast to rain here next weekend. Can’t be too good for the spring rebound.
I believe Long Island is one of the big, expensive places that people most want to flee. Way too much traffic and way to many rude, push ostentatious people. And way too much ESL draining so many of the schools. Why stay - for a high paying job that you can escape from on rare vacations? Why not just just take your wealth and move to Costa Rica for a permanent vacation? You don’t even know how much of a headwind you fight until you finally leave it for good. A wasted existence.
Las Vegas doesn’t have enough condos! We need more!Lots more! We’re way behind the other cities when it comes to condos. We should build a whole bunch of them right away, and convert some apartments to condos too!
Do you think I’m kidding? I’m not. Here’s the link…
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Apr-23-Sun-2006/business/6951665.html
So all those people like Mr/Mrs Trump were right to plan those luxury condo towers!!
Each recession is really like a mini-depression. We’ll get through the next one like we got through all the others.
It will be very painful for those not prepared, but only semi-painful for the few who are prepared.
This is just another up cycle that will go further into a down cycle than previous ones.
We can’t let fear control our lives. All we can do is plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Yes, but the overall trendline of such cycles seems to be a steady migration from greatness for America. There’s a lot that needs to be fixed.
Lomita (South Bay, L.A. county in Calif.) is one of the areas I’ve been following for the past 2 years. This particular area is not great, but not bad. There had been approx. 25-33 listings. Currently there are 43. One home, listed on a main thoroughfare, @ $325K sold 6/4/2005 for $345,000. It was placed back on the market 1/6/2006 @ $556K. Reduced to $506,000 on 3/29/06. And reduced again 4/10/06 to $450,000. Here is a description of the property…..
HOME IN DESIRABLE AREA OF LOMITA WITH GREAT POTENTIAL. RESIDENTIAL OR COMMERCIAL USE. COMPLETELY REMODELED KITCHEN-NEW OAK CABINETS, RANGE, ISLAND WITH GRANITE COUNTER TOPS, NEW HARDWOOD FLOORS, REMODELED BATHROOM, NEW WINDOWS, ROOF, STUCCO BAY WINDOWS, NEW DRIVEWAY, COPPER PLUMBING, ATTACHED GARAGE CAN BE THIRD BEDROOM.
To follow onto this post, a lot of the listings (esp. new builds) in my area include the following cryptic phrase: “6-panel doors!”
WTF is a 6-panel door, and why does it make a $150K house cost $190K? Or have the local realtors truly run out of ways to pump this dead horse of a market?
Hi CG
Re “WTF is a 6-panel door” Real Solid Wood vs luan (sp?) that cheap veneer crap that kids kick holes in w/o even trying. Not worth $40k more (maybe $3000-$4000) but can really upgrade the look of a home.
Ok, thanks for replying. I think I have the picture now. Although since my apartment also seems to have these 6-panel doors, it’s not much of a selling point for me. Especially if the indented panels collect more dust that I’d have to clean up eventually.