March 31, 2009

A Sense Of Denial For The Value Of Their Home

A report from the Associated Press. “Sales of vacation and investment homes slid 22 percent last year, a sign that tough economic conditions and tight lending requirements shut out buyers, the National Association of Realtors reported yesterday. Deeply discounted foreclosures and homebuilders’ efforts to unload inventory led median sales prices of vacation homes and investment properties to drop 23 percent and 28 percent, respectively. ‘As in the market for primary residences, it appears that many sales of deeply discounted distressed homes are pulling down the median price in the second-home market,’ said Lawrence Yun, the Realtors group’s chief economist.”

“Lee Falgoust bought a three-bedroom home in Ocean City, N.J., last September for $412,000 - about $150,000 less than it sold for in 2005. He plans on spending about two weeks there this year, and is renting it out for as much as $1,950 per week during the summer season. ‘It was a pretty safe investment,’ said Falgoust. ‘The rental income is helping me be able to afford it.’”

The New York Times. “There are cranes in motion at several large residential sites in New Jersey, despite something close to paralysis in the housing and mortgage markets. But at the Esperanza of Asbury Park, work was halted with the construction just above ground level, while at the failed Centuria project in Fort Lee, the land is up for sale again. And it appears that steel hasn’t even been ordered yet for other towers and complexes around northern New Jersey that were originally proposed to be opening by 2010.”

“Roseland’s Monaco Towers was originally planned as condos, but switched to rentals after the market soured last year. In addition, new rules issued by Fannie Mae make it likely that few banks would be willing to issue mortgages to buyers of units in new condominiums. But rentals are different, said developer David Barry, the president of the Applied Companies in Hoboken. ‘Rental buildings are the strongest space in all of real estate right now,’ he said.”

“‘It is true that rents are softening a bit, even in Hudson County,’ he added, ‘but for the most part, they have been holding up fairly well. Everyone thinks the world is literally coming to an end. We try to remain conscious of the cycle and are poised to take advantage when the next one begins.’”

The Times Tribune from Pennsylvania. “The residential real estate market could get worse before it gets better. That is the prediction by Austin Jaffe, consulting economist for the Pennsylvania Association of Realtors. ‘I think we are far from through in the collapse of the housing market,’ he said.”

“‘I think there’s growing pent-up demand from buyers. They’re out there, they’re just waiting,’ said Joyce Cornell, owner of Coldwell Banker Town and County Properties, which has offices in Clarks Summit and Moscow, and a customer base that stretches across Lackawanna, Susquehanna, Wayne and Monroe counties. ‘We experienced a much more robust market than usual in 2005, and 2006 and into 2007. We’re now returning to a more stable or more normal market for Northeastern Pennsylvania. In years past, like 2005 and 2006, we had great markets, but it was nothing like the overheated markets in California and Florida.’”

“‘We are seeing a greater number of foreclosures,’ she said. ‘But our foreclosures, the majority of them were investor properties.’”

The Meadville Tribune from Pennsylvania. “Another 200 manufacturing jobs disappeared in Crawford County in February, pushing the local unemployment rate to 9 percent — its highest point in 17 years. ‘It’s as bad as I can remember for a long time,’ said Sandy Rossi, the executive in charge of the United Way. ‘We’re getting more people calling about where to go to get help with utilities, mortgage and rent.’”

“Before the economy soured, Rossi said the office got about four calls a week. ‘Now we’re getting four a day,’ she said.”

The Chattanooga Times Free Press from Tennessee. “Unemployment in metropolitan Chattanooga rose to the highest monthly level in nearly 25 years last month. The Tennessee Department of Labor and Workforce Development reported Thursday that Chattanooga’s jobless rate rose to 8.7 percent in February — the highest rate since July 1984.”

“‘Our economy is in as much trouble as it has been in a long time,’ Gov. Phil Bredesen said Thursday. In Tennessee, unemployment was highest in Perry County in Middle Tennessee at 24.1 percent and in Lauderdale County in West Tennessee at 17.9 percent. ‘Those rates are Depression-era levels of unemployment,’ Gov. Bredesen said. ‘I’m really going to try to focus now on what to do with the dozen or so counties that have just fallen off the wagon.’”

“Metro Dalton, the self-described carpet capital of the world, continued to have the highest unemployment rate last month among Georgia’s 13 metropolitan areas. Employment in the Dalton area has dropped by 5,702 jobs over the past year, driving up the jobless rate to the highest levels since the early 1980s, state records show. ‘Until housing and construction comes back, Dalton is going to suffer,’ Dalton Mayor David Pennington said.”

WSMV Nashville from Tennessee. “Imagine if you wanted to get a divorce, but couldn’t because it costs too much. That’s exactly what’s happening, according to Brentwood divorce attorney Jonathon Stein. ‘I have one client who got laid off, so he’s decided not to pursue his divorce,’ Stein said.”

“‘Other clients have shared property, and, with housing values down, they’ve decided to stay together and wait, hoping that the housing market will come around,’ he said. ‘They’re forced to stay together, not because they want to reconcile or out of love, but out of this need to stay together financially.’”

The Memphis Business Journal in Tennessee. “Residential real estate appraisers already struggling to find competitive sales to determine fair market values will soon be required to attest to market conditions and abide by a new code of conduct meant to weed out any hint of collusion between lenders and appraisers. May 1 will mark the implementation of the Home Valuation Code of Conduct, which will basically put a firewall between the lender and the appraiser and not allow lenders to request or use specific appraisers.”

“Both new requirements have their roots in criticism the appraisal industry has taken over the catastrophic downturn in the residential real estate market in the last year and the billions in losses by government lenders like Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and the Federal Housing Administration. The most immediate step to try and remedy that is the 1004 MC form.”

“Appraiser Don Ralph, owner/operator of Ralph Real Estate Appraisal, says the 1004 MC is misnamed and should be called a ‘market trends report’ since it covers a 12-month period. He thinks the changes are overkill for a problem that responsible and ethical appraisers recognize. Many appraisers have resisted indicating declining conditions. ‘They were afraid to ruffle the feathers of brokers,’ Ralph says. ‘Now it’s not a big taboo.’”

“Still, he thinks Fannie Mae’s approach with the 1004 MC is too much. ‘It’s like killing a gnat with a bazooka,’ he says.”

“For each period, appraisers are asked to report not just median prices, but the number of properties on the market, absorption rates and days properties have spent on the market. Appraisers also must determine if a property’s value is increasing, decreasing or stable. ‘In some cases declining is good,’ says real estate appraiser Allen McCool. ‘If inventory is going down, that’s good. If median price is going down, that’s bad.’”

The Virginian Pilot. “With interest rates sliding to historic lows, mortgage applications have surged in recent weeks as homeowners try to take advantage of rates that could save them hundreds of dollars a month in payments. Many local homeowners, however, are finding they don’t qualify for new loans as home values have fallen and loan standards have gotten more strict, local mortgage brokers and loan officers said.”

“‘The problem right now with the guidelines so conservative, a lot of people would like to refinance but just can’t,’ said Ken Dolan, VP for Bank of America Mortgage in Virginia Beach.”

“Dolan estimated that half the people who call wanting to refinance won’t qualify. And some of those who apply will be turned down. The biggest problem, he said, is falling home values in the region. ‘Consumers being underwater is a big problem,’ he said. ‘It’s almost like they’re in a sense of denial for the value of their home.’”

“A statewide organization that provides classes and counseling for homeowners is eliminating foreclosure prevention from its services, a spokeswoman said Monday. Community Housing Partners, which has an office in Virginia Beach, has offered counseling to troubled home-owners as a wave of foreclosures hit the state and Hampton Roads.”

“‘Foreclosure counseling could take up a lot of time,’ spokeswoman Melissa Byrd said. ‘… But rather than giving part of our energies to several areas, we decided to focus on one area.’”

“The group had offered a range of foreclosure prevention services, including helping homeowners negotiate loan modifications. Now it will no longer be part of the Hope Now alliance of housing counselors approved by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. ‘It may seem coincidental with what’s going on in foreclosures,’ Byrd said. ‘It has more to do with re-creating our business model. We want to teach people how to avoid getting yourself into a foreclosure situation altogether.’”

The Baltimore Sun from Maryland. “Maryland’s jobless rate rose to a nearly 17-year high of 6.7 percent last month, reflecting continuing economic woes in a deepening recession, the Labor Department said Friday. While Maryland has fared better than many states, its unemployment has steadily risen as turmoil in the housing, construction and financial markets has widened.”

“James Anderson has been out of work since November, when he was laid off after 17 years as a driver for DHL Express. Anderson said he has been living on unemployment benefits and a small severance, with the last check to arrive this week. The 37-year-old Baltimore resident has been to four interviews, but most employers want him as a part-time employee, he said.”

“‘I’ve got savings, but I can’t live off it,’ he said. ‘If you don’t replenish it, you’ll sink. I worked hard to get my house and my car. I don’t want to lose those things.’”

The Daily Times from Maryland. “On the edge of Scarboro Creek, overlooking the Chincoteague Bay, Creekside at Public Landing would have been a nice place to call home. The 37-lot subdivision planned by Realtor Todd Burbage would have been nestled into 232.2 acres of wetlands, fields and forest. But while the plans have gained county approval, nothing will ever be built.”

“Several years ago, developers were approaching local governments with grand plans for new communities or expansions to existing ones. Now the same people are waiting out the slump, using the time to upgrade infrastructure or find new uses for the land that is otherwise sitting empty.”

“Snow Hill officials know the situation all too well. In 2004, Snow Hill annexed 1,200 acres for the Summerfield development that was set to begin sales of the 2,000 residential and commercial lots in late 2005. Phase one of the project, which would have built 300 homes on the south side of town, was reviewed by county planners in December of 2006, and has reserved water rights. But construction has yet to begin for either the 300 homes or the town’s new wastewater treatment plant that developer Mark Odachowski committed to build at his expense.”

“Meanwhile, at Grand View Farms, the community’s main thoroughfare — Grandview Drive — winds around 168 acres on the south side of Public Landing Road, almost across the street from the Creekside property. It was supposed to link the development’s planned 62 lots and is complete with stop signs and cutouts for driveways.”

“But days, weeks, months can go by without a car traveling the road. The subdivision was recorded by the county in March 2006 and the owner, Nichols Development Corp., was given permission to start building. However, three years later, the land is overgrown and no houses have been constructed.”

“Local developer Troy Purnell — who owns Purnell Crossing and Decatur Farms in Berlin — said that the last thing Worcester County needs is more new homes. ‘I think we are at the point where we need to clear out some of the inventory we already have,’ said Purnell, who is also a Berlin town councilman. ‘There are an awful lot of properties on the market already.’”

“In the late 1990s and early 2000s Purnell said there was a building boom on the Shore fueled by loose credit and people seeking second homes or a place to retire. By the end of the summer of 2005, Purnell noticed his properties weren’t selling as well. ‘There were not as many phone calls, not as many buyers, not as many contracts being written,’ he said. ‘By the beginning of 2006, it got noticeable that there was something going on.’”

“At River Run on Beauchamp Road, all of these conditions have stalled the growth of the community. In January, the development’s owner Lewis Meltzer told the Worcester County Planning Commission that the community has not had a real estate sale in a year and a half.”

“‘People aren’t even driving around looking at real estate anymore,’ said Hunt Crosby, the community’s marketing director.”

“‘The down side of it for us that it’s tough out there,’ he said. ‘The great thing for the customer is that there are some great deals right now.’”

“Gregg Holland, president of Coastal Association of Realtors agreed. ‘This is a great time to buy a home, second home or condominium and purchase them at 2004 prices, in some instances,’ he said.”

The Charlotte Observer in North Carolina. “Charlotte real estate lawyer Victoria Sprouse, accused of participating in a multimillion-dollar mortgage fraud scheme, took the stand in her own defense Monday, weeping as she denied committing any crimes. ‘There was no reason for me to do this,’ Sprouse told jurors. ‘This has ruined my life.’”

“In tears, she recounted how her arrest in the federal case also has crushed her business. She told jurors she used to conduct 3,000 mortgage closings a year. Now she does three to five a month. ‘I’ve been financially ruined,’ she said.”

“The 38-year-old real estate lawyer is charged with bank fraud, mail fraud and money laundering. If convicted on all the charges, she could spend more than 25 years in prison. Prosecutors have said Sprouse contributed to a wave of foreclosures in the Charlotte area, and that such frauds have played a significant role in the banking meltdown that has crippled the U.S. economy.”

“Sprouse told jurors that she depended on her paralegals to prepare documents properly but acknowledged that she hadn’t closely supervised them. She said she spent much of her time in closings. ‘I couldn’t keep up with everything,’ she said. ‘I was working too much. I was signing a lot of documents, and I wasn’t paying any attention to what I was signing.’”




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82 Comments »

Comment by wmbz
2009-03-31 09:33:16

‘I couldn’t keep up with everything,’ she said. ‘I was working too much. I was signing a lot of documents, and I wasn’t paying any attention to what I was signing.’

Well then it’s all okay Ms. Sprouse, I mean you were really trying hard. Not doing your job shouldn’t be held against you.

Go straight to jail and do not collect $200 bucks, next case.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-31 09:58:42

“I’ve been financially ruined”

That’s the -least- of your problems right now lady. It’s very important that she goes away for a long, long time. Shortly to be joined by Angelo and his “crew”.

Comment by phillygal
2009-03-31 10:29:25

What’s really galling is that this attorney is trying to use the same yo no se defense put forth by your garden variety strawberry picker.

You’re a professional who’s supposed to know better, lady, your specialty is real estate, remember?

Comment by In Montana
2009-03-31 13:07:15

She got greedy. LOL

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Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-31 13:49:40

Victoria Sprouse was testifying on the witness stand, “weeping as she denied committing any crimes”…

She’s only crying because she got caught.

Maybe the jury will give her an Academy Award and 25-to-life.

 
Comment by mtgfrdlwyr
2009-03-31 16:57:22

I had cases involving Victoria Sprouse. She was dirty pure and simple. The stuff she was doing was beyond negligence - fake down payments, fraudulent payoffs.

 
Comment by MacAttack
2009-03-31 17:19:49

Sprouse, who testified about five hours Monday, told jurors she’d never been convicted of a crime. She recalled the day federal agents knocked on her door to arrest her, and described what her life has been like since.

“I want to get married and have kids,” she testified. “I can’t do that with this hanging over my head. It’s not fair to my boyfriend.”

Waaaaaaaah!!!!!

 
 
 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-31 10:26:16

So much for hiring a real estate attorney to review your documents before closing.

I’m beginning to believe that my “cardboard box under a San Diego overpass” plan is becoming “Plan A”.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-31 14:57:13

Fixer:

The way we’re going, it’s not a stretch to think that people might be soon sleeping in metal Rental Storage units. :)
No, scratch that.
The President is headed to Europe.

“We art still masters of our fate.
We are still captains of our souls.”
–Winston Churchill.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-03-31 15:36:27

“So much for hiring a real estate attorney to review your documents before closing.”

Yep. She should be removed from the bar - regardless of the outcome of this case - based on that testimony alone.

Can former clients now file civil charges?

 
Comment by Plaid
2009-03-31 20:08:49

Ms. Sprouse is in a league of her own but my own personal experiences with RE attorneys is that its par for the course that they don’t read the documents. My first RE attorney didn’t ask to see Certificates of Occupancy and when we got to the closing, some were missing. When we sold the house, the buyer’s atty. never asked for C/Os. Our last house purchase, our attorney sent us a contract with the notation that the house inspection was “for information purposes only;” luckily we saw that and told our attorney that we couldn’t risk losing the $35,000 deposit with no recourse if the inspection was bad. He hadn’t seen it because he hadn’t bothered to read the contract.

Comment by Mot
2009-04-01 05:26:14

Yep, my very first closing back in the 90s I had to point out some incorrect numbers to the attorney I had hired for the closing. Waste of money.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-31 10:45:19

Cue up the Tiny Violin Orchestra.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-31 11:59:56

“Well then it’s all okay Ms. Sprouse, I mean you were really trying hard. Not doing your job shouldn’t be held against you.”

Reminds me of Kurt Vonnegut’s short story “Harrison Bergeron.”

“That’s all right –” Hazel said of the announcer, “he tried. That’s the big thing. He tried to do the best he could with what God gave him. He should get a nice raise for trying so hard.”

http colon / / instruct dot westvalley dot edu / lafave / hb dot html

 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-31 16:16:32

I SURE hope that that jury is paying attention and they don’t let her get out of prison until she’s at least 63.

It’s not just some bankers, brokers, hedgies and small time RE scam operators that need some long jail terms to restore the public confidence and trust.

 
Comment by adge
2009-03-31 18:04:08

She will get a huge sentence.

She is much too rich to be a hardworking everyday person. But she is much too poor to be in the big business/government elite. An easy scapegoat for both groups.

 
 
Comment by Groundhogday
2009-03-31 09:52:39

“‘In some cases declining is good,’ says real estate appraiser Allen McCool. ‘If inventory is going down, that’s good. If median price is going down, that’s bad.’””

I love this quote!

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-31 10:02:18

And from an appraiser….

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-31 13:10:37

Well, that’s just sickening. Who’s side are these appraisers on anyway? I thought it was the buyers that were paying for them.

 
 
 
Comment by shelby
2009-03-31 10:12:27

‘It has more to do with re-creating our business model. We want to teach people how to avoid getting yourself into a foreclosure situation altogether.’”

Uh, yeah, duh - where were you clowns 6 years ago?

I still don’t understand how the Banks are holding back most of their REO properties & slowly releasing them ( in NoVA & Maryland)

Comment by phillygal
2009-03-31 10:19:01

They think they can time the market, inventory wise.

They must be betting that this bubble burst will not be as long, protracted, and painful as it surely shall be. Do the banksters not know they are in competition with small timers who are only too willing to keep their alligator fed until they either a) get their price or b) capitulate.

And as that process unfolds, sellers who truly need to sell are putting their homes on the market, thereby increasing the inventory. And if they set the price right, the resulting sale will set the comps LOWER for that area.

This is what the REO holding geniuses have neglected to include in their calculation. What a bunch of drones.

Comment by shelby
2009-03-31 10:40:36

Thanks for the insight phillygal

I love the re-sellers here in NoVA (especially Loudoun Co) that have had their McMansions on the Market for >300 days.

There are 3 foreclosures in their ‘hood of 30 or so homes, but the foreclosure prices/closing prices “aren’t their comps!!” (thus quote the Listing Agent)

I am afraid that most Purchasers (like myself :) do consider Foreclosures/REO’s as neighborhood comps.

But I guess Sellers can deny and “hold out for more & not give it away”

Good luck with that

I can wait…………………………

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-31 10:46:29

Oh, Shelby, you meanie!

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-31 13:38:38

I wonder what’s going to happen when the spring/summer “selling seasons” end and it becomes plainly obvious that none of these properties are going to sell for their wishing prices.

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Comment by mikey
2009-03-31 16:21:01

…after the Superbowl, just wait, after the Superbowl people will be snapping them up ;)

 
Comment by Dave of the North
2009-04-01 02:55:44

The Superbowl in 2015?

 
 
Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-31 13:52:53

I sold my parent’s house in Alexandria, VA in March 2007 for $545K. At the time, the tax appraisal was $572K. Today the tax appraisal is $495K. My parents didn’t raise a fool…

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Comment by Anon In DC
2009-03-31 19:08:17

The bubble in Old Town Alex, VA 22314 is still strong. 50 listings at over a million dollars each. Can’t believe it. Some are condos !

 
 
Comment by Kim
2009-03-31 15:45:39

“I am afraid that most Purchasers (like myself do consider Foreclosures/REO’s as neighborhood comps.”

A while ago (like 2007) there was an agent (from FL, IIRC) on the HGTV boards bragging that she keyed in “Foreclosure - Not To Be Used As Comp” into the remarks field in MLS for her foreclosure listings. Wonder how that’s working out?

Having said that, I took it as further proof of what I already knew: I better know a neighborhood well enough to come up with my own comps before making any kind of offer whatsoever.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-31 17:25:55

“And as that process unfolds, sellers who truly need to sell are putting their homes on the market, thereby increasing the inventory. And if they set the price right, the resulting sale will set the comps LOWER for that area.”

This is what is already happening, and prices and sales will go WAY DOWN from here as joblessness spreads like cancer and the foreclosures multiply. This was a once-in-a-lifetime bubble and it will be a LOT WORSE this year and next. Banks with REO are like prisoners chained to cadavers.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-31 17:55:11

+1 for evocative language.
“Cadavers.”

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Comment by Lisa
2009-03-31 10:33:57

‘It has more to do with re-creating our business model. We want to teach people how to avoid getting yourself into a foreclosure situation altogether.’”

Gee, it’s a little late for all the FB’s out there. Avoiding foreclosure means buying a house you can actually afford over the long haul, having a solid rainy day fund and making a point of living within your means

 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-03-31 10:37:46

“Vacation home” = housing in a pretty place where you can’t earn a living. I think the future of a lot of those places is as a place for people to retire on just Social Security (or what’s left of it), Medicare and food stamps. The good news is that if things get cheap enough, doing so may be possible.

Comment by polly
2009-03-31 11:12:49

Assuming that there is health care available.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-31 11:27:20

Polly has a point.

When I was 12 years old, I broke a leg on a school ski trip. After the ski patrol got me off the mountain and splinted, it was time for the ride to the hospital.

The “ambulance” was a station wagon. I was placed back in the cargo section with another injured skier.

I can remember asking when we’d get to the hospital, and when one of the ski patrol guys said that we were almost there, I said “Good!”

I was in a tremendous amount of pain and that was a lo-o-o-ong car ride.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-03-31 11:34:15

WT,

In addition to ranting about insane home prices and corrupt REIC Cartel practices, one of the things I’ve sought to re-define is the whole notion of a “vacation home”.

Whatever shall those that run ice fishing lodges on Lake Woebegone do!? ( Get a cabin on the lake? ) Wouldn’t a view of brick walls and the roar of diesel engines be a pleasant change of pace?

Just like The Bubble itself, we’ve all too willingly surrendered our notion of privacy, luxury and sanity to first developer w/ a slick marketing web site. Whatever happened to originality?

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-31 13:50:23

I’m going to brazenly admit that I want to own a second home someday…somewhere I can snowbird in the winters. The place I am mainly looking is super expensive on the California coast but hopefully will be affordable in 20 years or so. I’ll be able to sail from Alaska down the coast and commute by sailboat instead of motorhome or car camping.

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-31 14:07:01

“I’ll be able to sail from Alaska down the coast and commute by sailboat instead of motorhome or car camping.”

Gee, why not use a helicopter instead? Those will probably be quite affordable by then also…

(I’m saying this only because it somehow reminds me of the inventor Dean Kamen, who wildly touted his energy-efficient transportation inventions while commuting daily to work in NH via helicopter. Cuz that’s real efficient and all.)

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-31 16:08:25

Helicopters require gas, wind energy is free. Helicopters can’t be lived on, sailboats can. Helicopters emit a tremendous amount of carbon, sailboats emit none. You can’t hunt for food from a helicopter, you can fish from a sailboat. Helicopters require tremendous wealth to be purchased, sailboats can be built from scratch, if you are so inclined.

Apples and oranges.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-31 16:28:59

Oh yeah, one other thing…

Helicopters cost about a zillion dollars. I found several sailboats on craigslist for the cost of a pickup truck.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-31 18:19:20

“You can’t hunt for food from a helicopter”

Apparently you never watched “Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom” growing up. Just replace darts with bullets and - voila.

Just sayin’

:-)

 
 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-31 14:45:55

Vacation home shmacation home. Better to sit at home on weekends in the summer. Hanging out at the lake is for chumps. Much better to be stuck in the city as the humidex level approaches 100 degrees.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-31 15:06:51

‘Better to sit at home on weekends in the summer. Hanging out at the lake is for chumps. Much better to be stuck in the city as the humidex level approaches 100 degrees.’

You know, you really are a troll and not even a good one. I’ve swatted down this vacation “home” crap for years, and even now, as trillions of dollars have been lost on these lies, allow me to swat you down again.

First, renters can’t go on vacation?

Second, it’s well know it is cheaper to rent when one happens to want to go to a lake than to own, and take care of the place. I live in a serious second “home” area and these people come into town and spend the whole weekend raking leaves! (Of course, about half have lost these weekend palaces by now, so nobody rakes the leaves.)

The fact is, this was just another by-product of the housing bubble, plain and simple. Now, go get me some ice tea before I spank you a third time…

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-03-31 15:16:31

Manny,

Chill. Besides, as an Oregonian, the LAST thing I’m worried about is freaking “humidity”? Maybe for people that still have kids at home having a place to “beat the heat” during the summer.

Me? NFW! How do I find more of IT!? I’m not sure people in SoCal etc. understand just how incredibly callous complaining about how much they hate the humidity where they grew up sounds?

So the choices are: A three month long summer ( maybe? ) or a Five Month Stretch w/ nominal rain and decent temps. but ’some’ humidity? DONE!

Oh… it’s “terrible” humidity. DONE!

It’s Un…godly humidity. ….Done.

I mean c’mon here people, if we were talking about Mississippi or something I could understand but this whinning has got to stop.

 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-03-31 15:41:28

but this whinning has got to stop

Yes but they are loosing their shirts ..

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-31 15:58:39

“First, renters can’t go on vacation?”

We can go on vacation anywhere we want — not stuck heading to the same old vacation home location year-in, year-out.

And we also can afford nicer vacations, as we are not dumping tons of money into repair, upkeep, PITI and capital loss on a vacation home.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-03-31 15:59:49

Ben,

I think we’re in absolute agreement that ( as you have well said ) vac. homes were just -another- excuse to speculate! These guys figured, “Hey, if it’s easy take it ‘twice’, right?”

But the fact remains, everybody wishes they had more vac. time and a nice place to spend it at? All throughout this I’ve rented and resisted buying time and again. Regardless of place, regardless of price.

I’ve never regretted not buying a 2nd home but where’s the cutoff? If you spend 6 mos. in… Seattle and 6 months in PHX, are we supposed to rent… -both-?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-31 16:06:20

Manny — Did you catch this news item today?

BTW, a one-month price decline of 2.8 pct occurs at an annualized rate of 29 percent — considerably faster than the 19 percent YOY decline between January 2008 and January 2009. Try not to get stucco!

Wall Street Journal
* REAL ESTATE
* MARCH 31, 2009, 5:42 P.M. ET

No Relief From Home-Price Drops
By KERRY E. GRACE

Home prices continued their multiyear slide in January, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller home-price indexes, as 14 of 20 major metropolitan areas posted price declines of more than 10% from a year earlier.

The Sun Belt continues to be hit hardest, and nationally, home prices are at levels similar to late 2003.

“Most of the nation appears to remain on a downward path, with all of the 20 metro areas reporting annual declines, and nine… falling more than 20% in the last year,” said David M. Blitzer, chairman of S&P’s index committee. Both composite indexes and 13 of the 20 metropolitan areas reported record year-over-year declines.

As of January, the 10-city index is down 30% from its mid-2006 peak and the 20-city is down 29%. The two indexes have fallen every month since August 2006, 30 straight.

The indexes showed prices in 10 major metropolitan areas fell 19.4% in January from a year earlier and 2.5% from December. The drop marks the 10-city index’s 16th-straight monthly report of a record decline.

In 20 major metropolitan areas, home prices dropped 19% from the prior year, also a record, and 2.8% from December.

 
Comment by MacAttack
2009-03-31 17:13:50

We need the occasional troll to bash :) Manny! There are lots of cheap houses in Bend, Oregon! Go buy a few; folks there will be extremely grateful!

Condos too! Why, they’re selling furnished condos for only $420K (Collins Lake) - Of course (close your ears now, Manny) I can DRIVE there in an hour and spend the day for about $10.50 worth of gas AT THE MOST.

 
 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-03-31 13:29:08

“Assuming that there is health care available.”

Yup. I notice a tendency in MT for retired people to build that great dream home out in the boonies, only to sell and move back when they get sick and need chemo etc. In fact, if it’s really dire you have the coverage, to go to Seattle or Salt Lake or even USC in Cali for treatment. So you may as well be near an airport as well as a hospital.

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-03-31 16:49:47

Yep, my dad retired to a dream home in NM, but commutes to Houston for chemo.

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Comment by Mole Man
2009-03-31 18:54:29

Houston. For the chemo. Perfect.

 
Comment by The_Overdog
2009-04-01 07:56:09

MD Anderson in Houston is one of best hospitals for treatment of cancer in the world.

 
 
Comment by Dave of the North
2009-04-01 03:03:05

Yeah, I’m thinking if we ever sell this house we should move in town and close to the hospital. This thinking is driven by my older brother’s experience - he had a heart attack Boxing Day 2005 and stopped breathing on the way to the hospital. Since he lives 2 minutes from said hospital, he was revived and after a long recovery is back to good health.
Of course I’m not the only one who has this thought and housing near our hospital is among the most expensive in the city. :-)

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-31 11:45:12

‘It was a pretty safe investment,’ said Falgoust. ‘The rental income is helping me be able to afford it.’”

How safe is rental income in a resort town, anyway? I find it hard to believe that $2000/wk is any sort of guarantee in this economy. Maybe I’m just an idjit, but you couldn’t pay me to spend that much just on lodging for a vacation in Jersey.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-31 12:48:48

The Slim family was turned on to the joys of vacationing on Nantucket Island by Slim-dad’s younger sister. Aunt Jean and her husband enjoyed taking their kids there, so she figured that the Slims would like it too.

Did we ever.

But we Slims were careful to avoid Nantucket during the high season. Reason: It was way too expensive.

So, we’d make the trek to ‘Tucket in September, dodging hurricanes on the way to and from. (Donna forced us to hole up at Aunt Jean’s place for several days. I can recall wanting to go outside, but no adult in his or her right mind would allow me to do so.)

That was during the 1950s and 1960s. During the seventies, Nantucket officially became Too Expensive At Any Time, and we never went back there.

Comment by Dani W
2009-03-31 14:12:13

I never vacationed in Nantucket, but I did stay for a few nights on Cape Cod at a youth hostel for less than $20 a night a few years ago. There’s always an affordable way to go.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-03-31 14:30:18

I like where everyone’s head is at on this one. Some good suggestions. My objection to much of it during the boom was that it was all “turn-key”!

Pre-packaged good times “in a box”. Well FUN doesn’t ‘happen’ that way. One thing that’s just killing me is that your wife won’t just pick up and hop in the car w/ you for a trip any more? It all has to be planned out so you know how it’s going to end before you leave.

My life has had a lot more funny stories than well planned trips and just b/c I’m a ‘little’ older doesn’t mean I’m ready to give up on that!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-31 14:53:46

I stayed at a Holiday Inn once.

I am not a DR, I just play one ( on tv)
and at home..hehehe

 
Comment by tresho
2009-03-31 23:10:08

I visited Nantucket once in Sept 2001. I sailed out from the mainland on the ferry, had a beer & chili on the boat, enjoyed the beautiful scenery & the salt air, then I sailed back to the mainland. Never got off the boat, that way no fare was paid. A wonderful time!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-31 12:09:39

Banks, Techs Set Stocks Up for Best Month in 6 Years- Reuters

you guys are missing out again !

 
Comment by parrish dave
2009-03-31 12:36:30

“‘I think there’s growing pent-up demand from buyers. They’re out there, they’re just waiting,’ said Joyce Cornell, owner of Coldwell Banker Town and County Properties

You know, contrary to the beliefs of most on this board, I think they must have tough requirements to become a realtor - they don’t allow anyone with an IQ over 70 ……….

Comment by Tommy Tune
2009-03-31 13:15:11

Ah yes, “pent up demand”, the new lie to replace all the old lies like “buy now or be priced out forever”. There’s certainly a big desire for a lot of people to sell their debt traps but not nearly an equal number of people wanting to buy them. With unemployment on the rise, wages stagnent or falling, stock portfolios in the toilet and house prices still too high I would like that realtor to explain exactly where this “pent up demand” will come from. It’s just more meaningless realtor catch phrase babble.

Comment by shelby
2009-03-31 13:30:36

Geez, I don’t feel “Pent Up” and I’ve been house shopping for 2 years now.

Everytime I feel “Pent Up” I look at how much home prices have dropped in the last 6 Months. That feeling passes onto a feeling of happiness.

It’s about that time that I book another Carribean vaca, because, heck, I can afford it. I don’t own a house/depriciating asset.

If “Pent Up” is bad - LET ME HAVE IT!!

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-31 13:44:43

When American history texts get written 30 years from now, I honestly wonder which of these Bubble-era slogans will earn the right to be typed in bold print and considered “critical terms” to remember from the chapter about our era.

Will it be “too big to fail”?

“Flippers”? (The Roaring Twenties, after all, had the flappers… but we had the flippers.)

“Buy now or be priced out forever”?

“Ownership society”?

“Pent up demand”?

“Irrational exuberance”?

Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-31 13:55:38

How about “snapping up”?

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-31 14:09:05

Lol that too

 
Comment by Wizard of OZ
2009-03-31 20:17:06

My Favorite…
..”Savvy Buyers”

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-03-31 15:30:10

meh.

“I” happen to think -abuse- of the phrase “Ownership Society” will -easily- go down as the most misunderstood..?

I believe it was originally intended to include everything from having an ownership stake in the company you work for to perhaps owning your OWN company along with stocks, bonds, mutual funds and having an -equity stake- in your own home/s or properties of varying purpose/s, ranches, winery and most importantly the loose translation of the very community to which you belong etc. etc.

Of course looking at it from that standpoint doesn’t get the BIG LAUGHS, does it? If you want to understand how that got so perverted look toward our REIC pals and no one else.

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Comment by MacAttack
2009-03-31 17:15:32

I think it was intended to kill off the social programs (none would be needed, in this fantasy world). See Norquist, Grover for further information on this topic.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-03-31 14:26:03

I actually think there IS some pend-up demand; witness the many on this blog who would like to buy.

The problem is that the pend-up demand is growing much more slowly than the rate of demand destruction that is occurring. :-)

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-03-31 16:52:56

Another way of looking at it: There probably are a lot of people waiting to buy, just not at current prices. Drop the price another 20% and I’ll bite.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-31 18:26:35

One need only to look at the homeownership rate - at 67.5% in 2008 Q4 still far higher than the historical norm of about 64% - to know that the whole “pent-up demand” thing is a myth. Combine that with the still-record-high levels of empty inventory and you’ve got falling prices for some time to come yet.

 
 
Comment by Crusader
2009-03-31 14:22:13

“Gotta buy right now!”
“Can’t miss deal”

 
Comment by renterbuildingwealth
2009-03-31 14:39:53

I am kicking tires in Fresno, slowly increasing my cash by renting.
Our Fresno Bee never reports bad housing news. I learned about our tent cities here from the New York Times. Any opinions on when the market will bottom here? Mostly realtorspeak and dumb arse sheeples providing me with advise.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-31 14:57:26

Speaking of the NYT, and the quoted pieces on the top of todays blog,
it was the NYT that had 2 articles recently, like 2 days ago saying people were finding rents going down and getting better places.

—-“‘It is true that rents are softening a bit, even in Hudson County,’ he added, ‘but for the most part, they have been holding up fairly well.———–

I will find links and post later.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-31 15:17:04

Wealth builder - If you don’t have many ties to the town, I’d kick the tires elsewhere.
I profess no real wisdom about the Fresno market, though I have lived in the Valley almost a decade. As others here have convincingly pointed out, it seems be a sure bet that real estate values won’t bounce back anytime soon. Dunno about inflation.
Disclaimers aside, there are properties - homes and duplexes - near the FSU campus that could cash flow. Not an option to go into blindly, though.

 
Comment by Central Valley Guy
2009-03-31 17:29:49

Speaking as a fellow Fresnan, I believe prices still have some ways to go down. It’s basically a service-sector economy, which is the main part of the U.S. economy taking it in the shorts right now. There is very little diversification and a lot of people were already living on credit before the recession hit.

If you can find a short sale or foreclosure for $100-$150K that you like, by all means start getting aggressive, but DEFINITELY don’t settle for something as the inventory is just exploding there. Check out redfin for the number of homes for sale and comps. Our town is just about heading for a whole heapin’ world o’ hurt. And this is coming from a civic booster who wants the place to succeed. Like the rest of CA, we gorged ourselves on this big ol’ housing bubble pie and the indigestion is still there for a while.

Two members of my immediate family are in or are just about to go in foreclosure in Fresno/Clovis.

 
 
2009-03-31 14:43:58

Only Realtorspeak and dumb arse people in Fresno trying to advise me. Any predictions about the Fresno housing market?

Comment by MacAttack
2009-03-31 17:17:49

I would personally think it’s close to the bottom in Fresno, at least at the lower-mid end. The higher end stuff and foothill/mountain stuff is probably still overpriced. I say this based on my 30 years in the Bay Area with friends in Fresno and Sacramento whom I visited periodically.

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-31 15:49:49
 
Comment by Lehigh
2009-03-31 18:57:03

The Lehigh Valley area of Pennsylvania(Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton) saw the value of homes increase by over 100% from 2001-2008. In 2000 the average house was $100,000. In 2007 the average house was $235,000. Now the local rag (morning call) has been trying to claim the market is on the rebound for 3 years now. The funniest thing the morning rag does is it’s news articles. They have NEVER printed an article that did not come directly from local realtors. That’s like asking a car salesman if “it’s a good car/deal”.

We have about 18 months of inventory locally and the morning rag is claiming prices of an average home is now $164,000. That’s $70,000 from the peak but it’s still not anywhere near bottom.

The Lehigh Valley was another bubble market and most of the foolish buyers were people from NJ/NY that were escaping the housing bubble over there. This created a new slogan for the realtors about commuting. Now correct me if I am wrong but our location to NYC(1 1/2 minimum with no traffic) is not a bedroom community, unless your talking to a realtor but that’s the logic they tried to use as why prices went up. Now when you add in the real drive time of say 2 hours one way which means about 4-5 hours commuting to your average work day of 8-10 hours that’s leaves you enough time for a shower/sleep. What a great life that would be.

My reply to the why not commute is simple. If took the 2 hour commute to NY and did that from the Lehigh Valley and went NE from here you could be somewhere in central PA. In that area of this state you can still and always will be able to buy a 4-5 bedroom home on multiple acres for way under $100,000. So why don’t people simply do that? I know, because it’s INSANE!

I met people who commuted who during the gas days of $3-4 dollars were paying almost $1,000 a month. Add that with the cost associated with maintenance of the automobile like tires, oil changes etc and you better have a newer vehicle because a hooptie will not cut a huge commute and you’ve just added about $1,500 extra on top of the mortage(now with negative equitity). If you added those costs these fools could have stayed in NJ/NY and had a nice drive to work.

I remember hearing from someone I thought was a very smart man (decorated Lt.Col Marine 26 year vet) tell me the “You better buy now or you will never be able to afford it” and my mouth about dropped. This was in 2006. Everyone thought we were crazy after we sold out home in 2004 and have been renting since.

Prices in the Lehigh Valley I predict will be closer to 1996 prices before this bubble is through.

 
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