April 1, 2009

A False Reality That Stimulated Incredible Growth

The Post Independent reports from Colorado. “In recent months, tightening credit markets have stalled many projects, particularly the so-called luxury spec homes built by developers, said Ryan Grobler, owner of Carbondale-based Oracle Building Group. ‘The whole valley has been hammered,’ Grobler said. ‘If you look at any projects up and down the valley, the foundation is poured and they’ve stopped.’”

“But even when building ramps back up, would-be buyers may find that tightening credit has narrowed the range of homes they can afford, said Adam Roy, a land-use planner at David Johnston Architects. He said the days of putting 5 percent or less down on an expensive home have been rapidly replaced by an era in which banks require 20 percent down and mortgage payments don’t exceed 30 percent of the buyer’s income — which changes the price of a home a consumer can buy.”

“Even consumers who may not need loans may curb their spending, said T. Michael Manchester, principal of Manchester Architects in Snowmass Village and Carbondale. ‘It was a false reality, in my opinion, that stimulated an incredible growth,’ he said.”

“Roy saw an entirely new, less-expensive home sector emerging, particularly downvalley, where consumers getting into the market will likely need cheaper homes than those previously available. ‘There’s going to have to be a product that’s more affordable,’ Roy said, citing the new credit environment.”

The Citizen Telegram from Colorado. “If you didn’t get in on Rifle’s Workforce Housing lottery last year, you’ll have a second chance this summer, when two single family homes and one tri-plex will be sold. The Workforce Housing program began in July with two single family homes in the North Pastures subdivision, constructed by Savage Land Co. of Rifle, who were instrumental in getting the program in place to promote ‘attainable’ housing in the city.”

“‘(The houses) are definitely below market value,’ Sally Brands of Savage Land Co. said while building the first two workforce homes last year. ‘But the bottom line is that we’re not doing this for free. Any builder can do this. But by deed-restricting, you know they’re going to be lived in by people who live here in Rifle. The idea is that you should be able to buy a house here if you work here.’”

The Arizona Republic. “Paradise Valley’s housing market didn’t do as well as the area’s 2008 median price might indicate. The Valley Home Values’ analysis of home prices tracked by ZIP codes showed the median home price only fell about 1 percent in 85253, which spans all the upscale neighborhoods of Paradise Valley. That small price decline looks pretty good compared with those in many parts of metropolitan Phoenix, where prices plummeted more than 20 percent last year.”

“But several Paradise Valley real-estate agents say the median home price doesn’t tell the real story for the high-priced home area. Average list price per square foot for roughly the first quarter of this year is $371. That compares with $544 during the same period in 2008. Average sale price per square foot for this year is $323. Last year, it was $490.”

“Real-estate agent Walt Danley, who has been selling homes in Paradise Valley for more than 30 years, estimates the area’s prices are down about 30 percent from the peak in 2005-06. He said foreclosure properties owned by lenders have hurt Paradise Valley’s housing market. But now, as in many other parts of the Valley, activity and buyer interest is picking up in Paradise Valley. ‘We are at the bottom or very close,’ he said.”

“Former Housing Secretary Henry Cisneros says he is more optimistic than most observers in predicting that the collapsed housing market will show signs of a recovery by year’s end. ‘But we still have more setbacks to work through,’ said Cisneros, U.S. Housing and Urban Development secretary under President Bill Clinton. ‘That includes commercial real estate, which looks grim right now.’”

“Cisneros is chairman of Los Angeles-based CityView, which invests institutional capital in affordable, urban housing. CityView invested in the 168-unit Terra Vista complex in 2007 when the P.B. Bell Cos. started to convert the apartments to condos just as the market cooled for condo conversions. It has sold 86 condos and is leasing the other units.”

“Terra Vista, built in 2000, is priced starting at $139,900 and includes a lease-purchase program that helps turns renters into buyers. That includes Julie Russell, a swimming instructor and golf-course worker, who is in a lease-purchase condo at Terra Vista that the former housing secretary visited. ‘I feel like my money is staying with me at the end of the day,’ Russell said of her lease payments.”

“Cisneros said Terra Vista is offering the kind of program that is helping working families and people like Russell build equity in their homes. He defended the Clinton administration’s efforts to loosen credit requirements to make ownership accessible for more Americans. That led to the home ownership rate growing from about 64 percent in 1993 to 69 percent by the end of Clinton’s second term, Cisneros said.”

“‘Those efforts we hijacked by unscrupulous companies that had no goal of creating ownership or equity for buyers,’ he said. ‘They were all about ambition and greed, and perverted the system.’”

The Arizona Daily Star. “Way down at the bottom of the MLS listings where few home buyers dare to look is a foreclosed town home going for $30,700. There are a handful of properties listed for less — a few trailers and a dilapidated foreclosed home that has an offer pending, for example — but for all intents and purposes this foreclosed town home is the cheapest thing going on the Tucson Association of Realtors Multiple Listing Service.”

“Hard as it might be to believe, not long ago this two-bedroom 904-square-foot town home near South Sixth and Irvington was flipped three times during Tucson’s ‘hot’ housing market. It was sold in 2002 for $58,900, Pima County Assessor’s records show. The home was flipped in August 2004 for $69,900 and then flipped again in September 2005 for $95,000. Now it’s on the market for $30,700.”

“‘The thing sold for 95, and now it’s worth a third of that,’ said Dustin York, an agent who is marketing the town home. ‘What the heck happened in a four-year period?’”

“I found myself wondering how an appraiser could ever have approved such a sale. ‘There weren’t as many properties available to buy under $100,000,’ said Tom Reeb, an appraiser who was speaking in general about Tucson’s market and not about the town home, which he did not appraise. ‘At that time, the supply was way down and demand was way up. So you had a shortage, which is one of the reasons that prices increased.”‘

“5151 S. Montana Place has been beat to hell. It needs a new roof and probably new wiring and plumbing, too. A violent sadness hangs around the house like a closet door on its last hinge. ‘We need someone in there,’ said neighbor César Martinez. ‘It hurts the value of my house.’”

The East Valley Tribune from Arizona. “With a rash of foreclosures, homeowners struggling with bills and builders filing for bankruptcy, homeowner associations in Queen Creek are feeling the economic pinch as much as their residents. ‘The traditional model of collections isn’t working anymore,’ said Chris Clark, a resident who organized a recent HOA summit. ‘You can’t just put a lien on a house or get a judgment on a person and expect money.’”

“When it’s a limited liability company or corporation that owns a house, things can get tougher. Many investors set up limited liability corporations with the house as the main asset, so the company ceases to exist when the bank takes over a company, said attorney Penny Keopke, who also participated in a summit. In other cases, the company will own multiple properties. Then, a judgment can prevent any of those other homes from being sold until the debt is paid, Keopke said. Once a bank takes ownership, the debt will be paid before the home is sold, Keopke said.”

“Gilbert’s Higley Park was in a different situation. A builder left the community with only 141 of the expected 608 homes built, said community manager Sandra Carlson. That also left the HOA with 23 percent of its expected budget.”

“If an individual owns the home and can be located, Keopke said some of her clients have set up payment plans that let debtors pay low amounts for the first six months and then increase the monthly payments. ‘Most people want to pay their debts because that’s just the right thing to do,’ Keopke said. ‘We are getting contacted by a lot of them and the typical response is ‘we know we owe the money, we just can’t pay it.’”

The Daily Herald from Utah. “Not surprising that as the spring home-buying season nears, more builders and Realtors are seeing higher foot traffic. Inquiries have also grown for a state program designed to entice fence-sitters into new homes and stabilize the home-building industry. Under the ‘Home Run’ program, anyone buying a newly built home may be eligible for a $6,000 grant, unlike an $8,000 federal tax credit, which applies only to first-time home buyers — or those who haven’t owned a home in three years.”

“Already, 78 home buyers, who will be closing on the purchase of their homes in the next 30 days. ‘There are first-time home buyers with income who are waiting for home prices to come down further. This is an incentive to get them into the market now,’ said Jim Wood, director of the University of Utah’s Bureau of Economic and Business Research.”

“More home builders, especially smaller ones in Utah, are in financial difficulties. Many have paid top dollar to buy land two years ago, and now find it challenging to sell homes at a profit in today’s market. ,’Enough builders are in trouble that banks are more cautious now,’ said Nate Packer, project manager with Ivory Homes. ‘Some of the smaller builders have left the market because they built the wrong product type, in the wrong location.’”

“As of the fourth quarter, there are 889 speculation homes in Utah County, according to Newreach. About 25 percent, or 222, are selling for under $300,000, and the remainder over $350,000. There were 997 speculation homes in the fourth quarter of 2007, compared with 1,937 in the third quarter of 2007 when the subprime market collapsed in Utah.”

The Las Vegas Sun from Nevada. “The drop in home prices has opened the door to more Canadians buying vacation homes and investment property in Las Vegas, and some builders and developers are trying to take advantage of it. Builders and Realtors are reporting that more Canadians have been shopping for real estate in Las Vegas as a second home, said Dennis Smith, the president of Home Builders Research.”

“‘I think we are getting more Canadians than in the past simply because of the affordability,’ Smith said.”

“The median price of resale homes in Las Vegas in February was $145,000, which by Smith’s numbers is down $10,000 from January and $90,000 from February 2008. That contrasts with the $120,000 median resale price in Phoenix. In the new-home market, the median price was $210,000 in Phoenix and $219,000 in Las Vegas, where the price fell $14,273 or 6 percent from January.”

“When Canadians see a home that once sold for $400,000 and now goes for $200,000, they know it’s the time to buy, said Dennis Duling, director of investor relations with a California real estate investment firm that matches builders and developers with buyers. ‘A lot of people believe we are at or near the bottom,’ Duling said. ‘They have been waiting to see where that bottom is.’”

“Tom Deinet, a Realtor with Century 21 Barrett, said he’s seeing Canadians hitting the market hard with interest in buying investment properties to rent out. When they are earning 3 or 4 percent interest on their bank accounts, the investors are attracted to buying rental properties with an 8 percent to 18 percent return, he said.”

“‘Properties are selling for half what it would cost to build them,’ Deinet said. ‘You will never see this again.’”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “Skip Jourdan looks forward to the day he props his grandchildren upon his knee and tells them about the depression of 2009 and how folks were so willing to reach out and help one another. Like the Desert Shores Community homeowners association he belonged to at Mar-A-Lago condos in northwest Las Vegas. When he was about to drown, the HOA was there to throw him an anchor.”

“Jourdan bought a three-bedroom condo at Mar-A-Lago for $194,000 in 2006 for his daughter to live in while she was attending University of Nevada, Las Vegas. He said he wasn’t looking to make a quick buck by ‘flipping’ the unit.”

“When his daughter transferred to a college in the East, Jourdan decided he’d be better off renting the unit than selling it for around $85,000, its value today. Therein lies the catch. The codes, covenants and restrictions, or CC and R’s, stipulate that anyone who bought at Mar-A-Lago in 2006 or later isn’t allowed to rent. Jourdan has to evict his renters and is now forced to pay $1,500 a month for empty space or sell it as a short sale.”

“Jourdan said he’s not disputing the stipulation that his condo be owner-occupied, and he understands why owners want to keep it that way. He just thinks there should be some sort of hardship contingency that allows him to rent until he can sell. ‘When I do have to short-sell, they’re just locking in comps (comparable sales) at $80,000. It’s ridiculous. All I want to do is keep a cash flow until I sell,’ Jourdan said.”

“Kristin Remhoff, VP of operations and community services for TerraWest Property Management in Las Vegas, said condo communities started capping rentals in 2005 and 2006 because of the difficulty in getting loans for buyers.”

“‘If there was more than ‘x’ percentage of rentals, the banks and mortgage companies weren’t giving loans out,’ she said. ‘Now, because of investors, builders and HOAs had to put deed restrictions on the titles. I have one community where one-third is deed-restricted and the other two-thirds can rent. I need a color-coordinated map to keep it straight.’”

The Reno Gazette Journal from Nevada. “Second homes accounted for 30 percent of all U.S. home sales in 2008, down from 33 percent in 2007, according to a report released Monday by the National Association of Realtors. Investment and vacation properties accounted for 40 percent of housing market sales during the height of the housing bubble in 2005.”

“Lake Tahoe, which has a significant second-home market, was not exempt from the sector’s woes last year. A sizzling high-end market initially helped Tahoe shake off the housing downturn even as the Reno-Sparks market started its decline after the housing bubble’s collapse. But Tahoe’s high-end properties ultimately succumbed to the difficulties that beset the housing sector.”

“‘The Tahoe second-home market has definitely had some serious depreciation on the least year or two,’ said Sue Lowe, corporate broker for Chase International. ‘We’re seeing short sales and even a few bank foreclosures in the higher end, which we didn’t see before. We just recently closed a $3.6 million short sale in Incline, so (the downturn) is hitting every sector now.’”

“The median price for a vacation property in 2008 dropped 23.1 percent to $150,000. Investment properties also saw values drop, down 28 percent to $108,000. Plummeting median prices coupled with the stock market’s own troubles likely played a role in the more upbeat outlook for investment properties, Lowe said.”

“‘Anyone who bought a house at the height of the market certainly has lost value in their home, but they still had a house,’ Lowe said. ‘If you had Lehman Brothers stock, then you had nothing. Home owners can hold on to their investment and ride this cycle out. Housing will definitely go back; it always has and always will. The biggest difference now is that people will be a lot more careful and do a tremendous amount of due diligence when purchasing a home.’”

The Record Courier in Nevada. “Unemployment in Douglas County reached 11.4 percent in the month of February. More than 2,600 people are out of work, according to the Nevada Department of Unemployment, Training and Rehabilitation. Perhaps no other industry has felt the effects of the housing slump more than the real estate industry. Realtors across the Valley have had to reinvent the way they do business.”

“‘I’ve been looking at expenses and looking at all we don’t need,’ said Marsha Tomerlin, owner of Coldwell Banker Itildo in Minden. ‘I used to want to throw money at problems to solve them. Now, I’ve become extremely practical.’”

“Tomerlin has decided to reduce advertising. ‘We kind of had a big ego, like everyone needed to be on a magazine cover,’ she said. ‘Now, we’re working with buyers and sellers through networking, staying in contact with the people you know, those you’ve done business with and have already established relationships with.’”

“Tomerlin said the economy has motivated her and other real estate agents to improve their customer service skills. ‘It’s called working with your sphere of influence — from the gal bagging groceries, to the dentist, to whoever might be a buyer or seller,’ she said.”

“Tomerlin believes the worst of the crisis has already passed. ‘I think we’ve hit the bottom,’ she said. ‘If anybody is thinking about waiting another month or two to buy a dream house, think twice, because people are looking and buying.’”

“Although sales may be picking up, Tomerlin said the market is still far from where it needs to be. ‘There are three major companies in town that are hoping business increases, that have tremendous overheads,’ she said. ‘I remain an eternal optimist, as any person in sales must. I’m looking for the rainbow, and that’s my focus.’”




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120 Comments »

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-04-01 09:56:09

So much for the Condo-pays-for-college model.

Comment by Natalie
2009-04-01 10:19:22

Jourdan bought a three-bedroom condo at Mar-A-Lago for $194,000 in 2006 for his daughter to live in while she was attending University of Nevada, Las Vegas. He said he wasn’t looking to make a quick buck by ‘flipping’ the unit. . . . The codes, covenants and restrictions, or CC and R’s, stipulate that anyone who bought at Mar-A-Lago in 2006 or later isn’t allowed to rent.”

So you expect us to believe you buy a place that you know you have to sell in four years, and can’t even be rented, with no intent to flip for profit. He was not enticed at all by the agents showing him 20% YOY annual appreciation rates. This guy is lying housing scum. Any one that buys a student a condo or house deserves foreclosure and bankruptcy. Ownership is not for transients. There are way too many transaction costs not to mention the lack of liquidity.

Comment by SMF
2009-04-01 10:39:08

Holding a condo for four years is not flipping, don’t you know? Flipping is only when you hold it for 6 months or less…

::snicker::

That’s another bubble waiting to burst, the one where you purchase a home for your student, and you sell it for a profit when they are done.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-04-01 12:20:38

Okay, first of all, a shout out to Ben for an Arizona thread. (Thanks, Ben, you are indeed da man!)

Here in Tucson, there are quite a few university area houses that were purchased by parents as, ahem, investments. Happened just across the street from me.

But, alas, the kiddos are graduating. And the “house as investment” thing just isn’t working out the way Mom and Dad expected.

For one thing, there’s quite a bit of inventory on the market right now. For another thing, college students aren’t known for the tender loving care that they show toward their living quarters.

Which means that Chez College Kiddie is going to need quite a bit of sprucing up and repair before it goes on the market. And did I mention that the market is glutted? Oh, yes, I already did.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 14:09:22

Arizona Slim,

Thanks for affirming that. We’ve all had our fun on the Condo=College scheme but I don’t believe it’s possible to over state it’s impact.

Here in Portland people were buying them on the basis that “She ‘may’ want to go to college ’someday’?” In truth, Charles Givens advocated this very strategy almost two decades ago. If you subtract the bubble pricing, have several kids all going to State and wouldn’t mind retiring there..? Then it’s not a bad idea. Four & Flip? Forget it.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-04-01 15:38:53

Hahaha I just attended the accepted students’ day at my medical school last weekend. At the end of the day they had a “housing fair” for the new students and - lo and behold - several realtors were there attempting to bluff and buffalo everyone into buying South Jersey houses. “The market has nowhere to go but up.” Seriously? You guys are trying to hit med students up for buying a house when you KNOW most of them are going to be living off student loans? Yeesh.

Even the rental agents seemed to be getting shifty. Just about every table I visited told me about how their complex had “just upped rents again” this month. I’m starting to think that the inflated rents in the neighborhoods right around the school must largely be due to the fact that apartment owners know they can keep rents high because of students’ reliance on loans.

 
Comment by adge
2009-04-01 18:35:11

The best rental deals near campus are usually found by personally searching. The agents and other solicitors that approach incoming students are vultures looking for easy prey.

Also.. do not trust any apartment that includes models or bikini pool shots in promotional brochure. That almost guarantees their target audience is male freshman.

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-04-01 19:15:47

Inflated rents around college campuses are nothing new.

Teen and twenty-somethings haven’t developed “price-sensitivity”, at least when it comes to rent.

Pizza, car insurance, gas, and beer maybe……..

 
Comment by L. Opine
2009-04-02 23:04:32

Perhaps a lot of those parents had an unconscious understanding of their own shortcomings, and since the apple rarely falls far from the tree, never expected their children to graduate, thus making the condo purchase a long-term investment.

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 12:00:14

“This guy is lying housing scum” LOL!

The only bubble blog shingle that hasn’t been taken yet! It would be where we only post the worst of the worst.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-04-01 10:30:15

“So much for the Condo-pays-for-college model”.

Yep, and in our little city it was done by tons of folks and now it’s blowing up in mom,dads,grandmom&grandpaws face. I am waiting to hear of some University and City/taxpayer buy back plan. I will not be at all surprised.

Comment by ulfar
2009-04-01 10:56:15

long-time reader, first-time poster…my girlfriend and her mom did this (before I met her). Now several years after graduation they are stuck with a condo far from where they both live, paying a property manager, dealing with crazy renters (one did a lot of damage) barely covering the mortgage payments and everything else with the rent, and “hoping for a housing recovery”. What dumb decision that was.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-04-01 13:00:05

Glad to have ya….

But honestly barely covering the mortgage is a FANTASTIC DEAL today. Lots of people are NEGATIVE cash flow and by $1000 a month and more

Your Girlfriend/mom are VERY VERY Lucky…..dumb but lucky.

Now get them to sell that noose around their necks and everyone will be a lot better off and nicer.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 11:09:43

“This guy is lying housing scum” LOL!

Natalie, good for you. When Ben started it all, there were untold variations one could feature as their Housing Blog “shingle”. The only (1) left is… : “Housing Scum”!

There we’d feature only the very worst!

 
 
Comment by Kim
2009-04-01 11:30:57

“A college in the East” used to be a euphanism for Harvard. I wonder if that was the reason Skip’s little darling transferred and left Daddy on the hook for $100K+.

Comment by Will
2009-04-01 12:27:39

Not likely. Anybody buying a 3 bedroom residence for a college co-ed is not likely to have offspring qualifying for Harvard.

Comment by MrBubble
2009-04-01 13:52:54

You’d be surprised.

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Comment by Julius
2009-04-01 16:00:11

For sure. After all, Bush graduated from both Yale and Harvard Business School.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-01 09:58:00

‘Developer James Rhodes on Tuesday night filed a petition for bankruptcy on behalf of many of his key businesses, including Rhodes Design and Development Corp. Rhodes has been one of Las Vegas’ most successful and controversial developers and homebuilders. He developed Rhodes Ranch in southwest Las Vegas and Tuscany Village in Henderson.’

Here’s one for these Canadian speculators counting on rents:

‘When Nevada’s largest company pushed another $200 million across the felt on Friday, it added to the stakes of the biggest economic gamble in Las Vegas history. Resort giant MGM Mirage now has more than 8,500 current and 10,000 future jobs and billions of dollars in assets riding on the outcome of CityCenter, an $8.7 billion development on the Strip.’

‘Vegas is getting a significant education in bankruptcy these days, and a lot more is on the horizon,’ said Chuck Moore, senior managing director of a financial turnaround and restructuring firm. ‘If this project did file for bankruptcy, there is a very high likelihood that work would stop. Once (a project) actually goes bust, the people stop work pretty immediately.’

‘It wreaks havoc on emotions,’ said blackjack dealer Desiree Hansel, 39, who said a job at CityCenter would allow her and her family to move back to Las Vegas from Florida. ‘You get excited when you hear good things, sad when you hear bad things.’

‘Hansel wants nothing more than to return to Las Vegas and resume a career with MGM Mirage. ‘I’m so happy they made their payment,’ she said. ‘We raised our children (in Las Vegas). We want to come back.’

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 10:39:28

“‘I think we are getting more Canadians than in the past simply because of the affordability,’ Smith said.””

I’ll enjoy watching these Canucks get burned to a crisp.

 
Comment by bink
2009-04-01 10:45:57

Add the Riviera to that list.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2009-04-01 10:57:08

Anyone know where they are coming up with these pie in the sky return numbers of 18% ?

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-01 16:48:03

Ohhh Yeah Desiree…roll those dice again , baby needs a new pair of shoes ;)

 
 
Comment by Anthony
2009-04-01 10:18:00

I sell floor covering in Seattle. We are a huge liquidation business. It is bad and getting worse.

Tomerlin is dangerous. She is not just naive but stupid.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 10:35:36

Best to close shop now when you know what’s coming, rather than wait for the inevitable.

Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 12:36:40

Anthony,

Wrong! You go back and re-negotiate all of your relationships with your vendors. Re-negotitate with your suppliers. Re-negotiate with your landlord!

Consider carrying other lines your core customer base may need? Keep plugging away!

( JFC, whatever happened to “getting tough” ? )

 
 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-04-01 10:19:24

“‘I’ve been looking at expenses and looking at all we don’t need,’ said Marsha Tomerlin, owner of Coldwell Banker Itildo in Minden. ‘I used to want to throw money at problems to solve them. Now, I’ve become extremely practical.’”

*Sigh* I remember how beautiful the valley was, with the sun setting over the Sierras, when I’d drive from Carson down to Gardnerville-Minden to work at Sharkey’s circa 1973.

Now I don’t want to lay eyes on that place.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 10:37:36

The community development folks in Reno/Carson/Gardnerville should be rounded up and shot dead. Seriously. What they allowed to happen, or better yet orchestrated, is criminal.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-04-01 12:15:21

While I don’t support the pillaging that developers do, I think the underlying problem is “us.” (population growth)

As an aside, do you think the places you and InMontana now live were the same in 1973? Or has there been some “community development” to accommodate an influx of transplants.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 12:47:14

When you have taken a trip down to the area to see the absolutely mind numbing level of overbuilding which has resulted in a staggering overhang of vacant homes with no hope of occupancy, rental or otherwise, get back to me. This about rubber stamping every single project in the name of greed, with absolutely zero thought to environmental impact, feasibility, or necessity- NOT population growth.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-04-01 13:58:26

Fine, but perhaps that’s the angle they played to get those places built. Same thing here. Bend, OR anyone?Question is, what are we doing here to combat the same type of growth?

Reminds me of every time I see someone with a “Keep Tahoe Blue” sticker on their car. If you want Tahoe to remain blue, what are you doing here in OR?

 
Comment by SteveH
2009-04-01 18:13:23

Yeah, Bend is f**ked too. I grew up outside Seattle a long time ago, when salmon still actually swam up the little streams and Bellevue was just a movie theater and a department store. You are absolutely right, sleepless, there are too many people. Lynnwood, north of Seattle, is a California strip city. I was recently up in the north Marysville area and couldn’t believe how many house they had built. It all pretty much sucks anymore, and the worst part is that all these mew people don’t even know that it does because they have never known anything else. It all seems normal and okay, but it has been destroyed.

 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-04-01 13:06:52

Nope it wasn’t the same at all. But I still don’t want to see old haunts like Carson Valley or Jackson Hole & prefer my memories. And I hope to hell it slows down here for a decade or so. Sometimes things just go tooooo fast.

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Comment by Crusader
2009-04-01 15:09:40

That can be a nice thing sometimes to live through your memories, when everything has been ruined in reality… The 1980s are not so bad anymore!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-01 16:43:06

adjusting my shoulder pads and singing,’ice ice babeeeeeeee’

The 1980s are not so bad anymore!

 
Comment by Skagitonian
2009-04-01 18:19:54

Vanilla Ice was 1990 actually, but technically the 80’s didn’t end until Nirvana wiped out hair metal bands!

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-04-01 20:07:21

Nirvana wiped out hair metal bands!…………And made dancing with the opposite sex the worst thing you can do.

The 90’s had so little good dance music. grunge gansta rap….and mariah carey…ugh

check out my myspace page on the handle…im working on 2 websites so someday i will have them up and running

 
 
 
 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-04-01 10:56:37

Yeah, you really start to feel like an old timer when you lovingly recall beautiful open vistas turned into crap-tracts as far as the eye can see. Along the 395 to Mammoth the amount of new development in the middle of nowhere is sobering. There are beautiful meadows near June Lakes slated for development and I’m hoping this recession has killed that idea.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 11:08:13

I’d like to file suit against the developers, pols, etc., on behalf of all outdoor loving people as well as the bears, bees, flowers, and trees. My contempt for these people cannot be put into words.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-04-01 13:11:40

I already own a house too

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Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 14:14:13

“with no hope of occupancy”

Agreed, more and more I’ve come to the conclusion that:

Loan = Project
Project = Loan
Project = Profit
Loan = Profit
Spending = Profit
Profit = Spending
J@rk off = Profit
Go Blind, STILL = Profit

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Natalie
2009-04-01 10:22:39

“Tomerlin believes the worst of the crisis has already passed. ‘I think we’ve hit the bottom,’ she said. ‘If anybody is thinking about waiting another month or two to buy a dream house, think twice, because people are looking and buying.’ Although sales may be picking up, Tomerlin said the market is still far from where it needs to be. ‘There are three major companies in town that are hoping business increases, that have tremendous overheads,’ she said. ‘I remain an eternal optimist, as any person in sales must. I’m looking for the rainbow, and that’s my focus.”

There are many ways to personal wealth. Taking advice from those who ignore facts and focus on rainbows is not one.

Comment by Neil
2009-04-01 12:18:24

There are many ways to personal wealth. Taking advice from those who ignore facts and focus on rainbows is not one.

Yea… but you can make a fortune selling drugs to the idiots. ;)

Got Popcorn?
Neil

ps: JOKE!

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-04-01 12:22:50

Yup, focusing on rainbows is pretty tough. And the moment you’ve got a good image and you’re ready to hit the ole shutter, that rainbow’s a goner.

Comment by polly
2009-04-01 13:15:07

There was a beautiful rainbow outside my apartment early Sunday evening. I saw it as I was walking to Bed Bath and Beyond (hair dryer broke about 2 weeks ago). Store was closed, but I was all the better for the walk and the scenery.

Best rainbow I ever saw was a double as I was walking up the Punchbowl to visit the military cemetary in Honolulu.

But I don’t rely on the rainbows to earn a living.

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-04-01 14:14:06

“‘There are three major companies in town that are hoping business increases, that have tremendous overheads,’ she said. ‘I remain an eternal optimist, as any person in sales must. I’m looking for the rainbow, and that’s my focus.””

TRANSLATION:

“I’m looking for rainbows—cause God knows I need one right about now! My company is only one of three brokerages I know of locally that are on the verge of going bankrupt due to tremendous overhead and barely any demand! Buy, dammit, buy!”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-04-01 16:17:09

Simple business lessons from Slim:

1. Never hope that business will increase. Work your butt off to make it increase. Yes, this can be done. Even now.

2. Don’t have tremendous overhead. And, if you do, cut it down.

 
 
Comment by bldrbob
2011-01-14 19:11:56

Great foresight Tomerlin.
It’s great to look back and see just how much the so-called experts really know. I wonder how many sheep followed her to slaughter.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2009-04-01 10:25:09

Comment by aladinsane

2007-03-20 16:45:01

Once hyperinflation roars on through, the very first item, in which we’ll feel the bullwhip hit on our backs, will be the price of oil.

Everything else will initially remain the same prices, just for a short while, until our modern American Heroes (I see a rather ugly “reality” show possibility out of this~ yee gads) realize that anything is of more value than a plummeting Yankee Dollar and they snatch up all the goodies made somewhere else, off the shelves of targets, wal marts, costcos, et als of the korporate world and our mortal weakness becomes apparent.

We forgot how to manufacture our own goods.

China doesn’t really want fiat Dollars, they’ve got enough problem keeping all those wantabe capitalists (r.i.p., you had a good ride for a generation, sorry the ride’s done. Please exit to the right or left, your choice) that caught a glimpse of the good life and you think they’re going back to The Great Leap Forward?…

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-04-01 10:37:49

gasp

 
Comment by bink
2009-04-01 10:48:47

April fools joke? Or is aladinsane actually back?

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-04-01 11:31:51

Can’t be…….not one mention of “gold” in his post…….

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-04-01 11:33:13

Ooops, forgot to add…. :)

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Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-04-01 11:40:14

Who is going to tell him that we all decided to replace the word “Gold” with the phrase “The precious metal of which we never speak thy name” while he was gone? :) :)

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 12:44:05

I just love it. Housing Bubble aside, how would it have been any easier for any other nation in our position to have walked away from a planet desperately seeking to get out of abject poverty and willing to do -anything- to achieve that, and walk away without a scratch?

Had France been the economic engine ( I know..? ) and we along w/ the rest of the globe were willing to work for dirt cheap wages to get out of poverty and they were the market and lender of last resort, how well would they have fared after a decade or two?

If there’s a market for it, we can ramp up mfr. over the weekend. C’mon guys.

 
 
 
 
Comment by sfbayeng
2009-04-01 16:53:28

Alad,

Good to see you back. Welcome home!

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-01 10:29:04

Ah, Aspen and Tahoe, the invincibles now in decline.

Actually, I have a good friend who is a master carpenter in Tahoe. He told me 2 years ago the market had gone to hell there.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 10:49:41

The denial is still quite strong in Tahoe. Over the course of the past twenty years, average people have been steadily displaced due to ever rising housing prices AND rents- thanks to second home “owners”. But, I think that pattern is finally, FINALLY, broken. I see Tahoe returning to it’s previous model, where honest, hard working people could afford a small, humble home. After all, there were still cabins available for less than $100k around 2000. The Sue Lowe’s of the world wouldn’t want you to believe that, and in fact they will laugh in your face at the mere mention of such an idea. But, they’ve got alligators eating them alive, and their salaries are dependent upon it not happening.

 
Comment by MommyK
2009-04-01 10:50:36

I think these ski towns’ booms coincided with some other trends that have run their respective courses such as the pseudo-environmental wave of getting back to nature via condos and SUVs, the Boomers’ ability to pound the moguls all day, etc. The areas have tried to diversify into golf, summer art fairs, etc. but there’s not enough there there for people to make a huge commitment to one area. Sure there will always be the Bruce Willis type celebrities who can buy the multi-million dollar properties that sit vacant most of the time, but I think for the bread-and-butter UMC buyers, these places are just not that exciting any more and are just too physically unappealing in terms of altitude and climate. Here in Colorado we see lots of marketing reports that show that Xers and Ys enjoy the winter sports but are not determined to build a lifestyle around it as has happened in the past.

Comment by Michael Emmel
2009-04-02 18:51:05

I think your on to something here but also it was a case of group speculation ( masturbation ?). With everyone buying into the time share condo thing everyone was trying to make money off of vacation rentals so they could vacation for free and real estate prices always went up.
Until it didn’t.

Anyone with half a brain could figure out that holding property like this was expensive just like the associated RV craze. And it depended on people having free cash and plenty of vacation days.

Now if you look up what the make online.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Age_of_householder
They are pulling this off on average with a salary of 60-70k a year.
Now assume they have owned their last move up house for 10-15 years and paid 20% down or even assuming they have no mortgage they probably paid 200k for the last primary residence before the boom.
Carrying two mortgages or even one fancy second home has them pretty tight for cash. Add in some college tution for the kids etc and on average these guys are running a tight budget with little left for retirement except real estate. Just working the numbers indicates that the boomer generation has to be fairly heavily leveraged in Real Estate.
Throw in the must have two new cars every year and they had to be in general somewhat strained and obviously betting the farm on rising real estate prices vacation property esp. Next take the market crash and a serious precentage say at least 10-20% has to be in the position that they have no choice but unload some property no waiting for the market to turn around.

Throw in a fair precentage forced into early retirement and the you have to have a fair precentage of must sales.
Now a lot of these properties could turn a profit at lower prices than today so some of these must sales have room to undercut the market.
I think I’m seeing signs of this with properties being unloaded at a price that would bring a decent profit if bought ten years ago but still under our still bubbly prices.

 
 
Comment by climber
2009-04-01 10:53:29

Add Vail to the list. That’s another town that completely relies on money from elsewhere - there are no real jobs there.

I only ski Vail when someone else is paying, plus skiing is recreation and highly discretionary at that. You can snowshoe or XC ski for free in adjacent national forest lands. We had season passes last year, but this year we didn’t ski at all.

For a family of 4 skiing Vail is out of the question, there are other far more family friendly areas like Snowy Range, Eldora, Loveland or Cooper.

Comment by Natalie
2009-04-01 11:34:34

I agree. If you live in Colorado, why wouldn’t you want to experience all of the ski areas, rather than being tied down to one? Most are only two hours away. Also if you have kids, you may fantasize about spending leisurely weekends their them in the mountains, but the fact of the matter is that 4 weekends per season is the most do anyway, and your kids would probably be happier having new experiences traveling all over the world with the money you save by renting only when you use, than getting stuck staying at the same of place. In addition, it would be much more educational. Europe, New Zealand, Belize, Costa Rica, etc., who needs them when you can keep going back to Vail again and again and again and again so that you don’t feel like a complete dumb @#$ for purchasing that over priced condo that lost 40% in value.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-04-01 12:45:23

“your kids would probably be happier having new experiences traveling all over the world”

+1

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Comment by champagne2sewage
2009-04-01 12:24:11

I just got back from a 2 day ski trip to beautiful Colorado. Skied Loveland and Copper and with perfect timing as they just got hit with 13″ of powder.

Lift tickets are insane, Copper was $97 at the window (less if you have connections :) ). How this would be possible for a family of 4 is beyond me. You’d be at almost $400 just in lift tickets (okay, a little less if the kids are young) and you haven’t rented/bought equipment, eaten, arranged transportation or lessons, or found a place to stay and that’s just for one day!

I love skiing but don’t see it growing much due to these insane costs.

Comment by MommyK
2009-04-01 12:46:37

Skiing is not growing. The numbers show individual ski area growth simply takes skier-days from other ski areas. And the growing areas are really just reaching farther into the National Forests for the terrain that will lure the skiers over from the competing areas.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-04-01 13:15:10

Don’t tell it to these guys. Our latest new ski hill / RE scam…ya think they might be in a little bind here? LOL

http://missoulian.com/articles/2009/04/01/news/local/news02.txt

 
 
Comment by Natalie
2009-04-01 12:51:03

If you live in CO you can get a season pass at a couple of decent resorts starting around $400, and a pass which includes most resorts including Vail at $580. Kids are about half price. Still expensive, but cheaper than what out-of-staters are charged. For a single person, however, if you go 10 times or more, its cheaper than golf. The season is about 6 months.

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Comment by rex
2009-04-02 18:28:01

You can go to Costco in Colorado and get an Arapahoe Basin 3 pass for $114. During preseason you can also buy 4 packs online for Copper, Keystone, Breck and Winter Park for about $190. Season pass run $399 (Keystone, A Basin, Breck) unlimited with no blackout dates. You can also use those 3 and 4 pack passes to buy $58 guest passes.

It ain’t that expensive. I only ski 30-35 times each winter. Compared to the way I golf skiing is a lot cheaper.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-01 10:44:35

A violent sadness hangs around the house like a closet door on its last hinge.

Comment by Mo Money
2009-04-01 11:05:59

Breathe deep the gathering gloom
Watch lights fade from every room
Flippers look back and lament
Another day’s useless energy’s spent
Impassioned investors wrestle as one
Lonely Realtor cries for love and has none
New owner screws up and misses a payment
Senior citizens wish they didn’t refi
Cold-hearted banker that rules the night
Removes the money from our sight
Debt is good and saving not right
But we decide when to walk away
And which place to rent

Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-01 16:48:51

Good one MO

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-01 11:02:39

Hey, OT but great news guys. I just got off the phone with the documentarian who was in Las Vegas for the HBB meetup. He said they have a preliminary edit of our interviews and it should be up on youtube by tonight. It isn’t neccesarily what will be in the film, and it includeds a ‘to-be-continued’ as they expect to edit more. The editor told him it was very entertaining!

For those who weren’t there, most of us don’t know what the others had to say, so this should be interesting. I’ll post the links as soon as I have them. Also, he told me they would like to have any web based LV photos that HBBers posted, like lavis and SD RE Bears. I think I have two, but if there are any more, please post them here or email them to me.

Comment by Kim
2009-04-01 11:09:52

Very cool! I am looking forward to seeing that.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-04-01 11:57:43

Look forward to seeing it…

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-01 12:29:33

Cool Ben…we’ll be waiting for you to post the links.

 
Comment by Danger
2009-04-01 12:40:07

I can’t wait to see what y’all look like!!

Until then, I’m sticking to my belief that all of the postings here are from one bitter renter that was left behind.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-04-01 14:20:13

“Until then, I’m sticking to my belief that all of the postings here are from one bitter renter that was left behind.”

D*mn! You caught me!

 
Comment by Natalie
2009-04-01 14:47:26

Regardless of one’s bitterness for not being able to buy an affordable house at a reasonable price after 2002 (earlier in some places) and being sickened by hearing morons that overpaid brag about how much money they were making, as of today, the number of owners who wish they were left behind during such period has outstripped the number of renters who felt left out, and such trend will continue for at least another 18 months.

Assuming you are an leveraged owner, in a few years you get to keep your memories of perceived wealth, and I get to keep your house paid off in cash. Be nice and I might considering letting you come over to clean it for a few bucks.

 
 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-04-01 15:02:26

That sounds awesome. Can’t wait to see it.

 
 
Comment by bob
2009-04-01 11:17:55

http://www.cnbc.com/id/29995211

I don’t understand why they do this - especially after C-S numbers yesterday.

“There are encouraging signs that we’re near a bottom,” says Nomura International’s Chief Economist David Resler, who is among those who have been calling for a bottom in the late first half of 2009. “The signs of improvement we’ve been seeing have to be recurrent. One to two months isn’t enough to establish it; it needs to be a stretch.”

“We are close to the bottom,” says Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors. ”Once home sales begin to rise that could boost home buying confidence and get others off the sidelines.”

The Mortgage Bankers Association’s forecast calls for a steady increase in home sales beginning in the second quarter with the annual rate surpassing the 2008 high in the fourth quarter. Annual sales will go from 4.34 million units in the first quarter to 5.11 million by the end of the year, a 17-percent increase from 2008. Sales are forecast to increase another 10 percent in 2010 to 5.53 million.

Comment by packman
2009-04-01 13:53:36

One need only look at the stock market to know that sales volume doesn’t mean squat with regards to an actual recovery. I’m amazed at how these folks don’t get that.

It’s all about prices, and debt.

Prices.
Debt.

That’s it.

 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-04-01 15:04:34

“I don’t understand why they do this - especially after C-S numbers yesterday.”

Bob, see if you can follow me. Pay close attention so you don’t miss my point….

THEY ARE LYING.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2009-04-01 11:20:11

Comment by aladinsane

2007-03-20 15:46:56

I’m not sure if everybody gets it yet, but the housing bubble was just a prelude…

You haven’t seen anything yet~

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 15:04:39

If this really is alad, this is sad. I would’ve hoped for a return to the blog along the lines of a witty post, not some thinly veiled attempt to feed one’s own ego.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-01 16:51:59

Griz, nice attempt at a ‘warm hello’. ;./

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-04-01 18:18:41

That’s why my name’s not “TeddyBear“…

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-01 16:50:39

HEY glad to see you back,Lad.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-04-01 17:21:08

BE SURE TO LOOK AT THE NEW RULEBOOK!

Saying things like “Obama and the Democrats are the worst” can get you banished.

 
 
Comment by JohnF
2009-04-01 11:25:23

“When Canadians see a home that once sold for $400,000 and now goes for $200,000, they know it’s the time to buy, said Dennis Duling, director of investor relations with a California real estate investment firm that matches builders and developers with buyers.

Ah….the fleecing of the foreign investors.

It kinda reminds me of when Japanese investors bought all the downtown LA office buildings in the early 1990’s, right before vacancy rates went well north of 25%.

They got their heads handed to them…….

Comment by Mo Money
2009-04-01 12:05:46

I saw news that the Chinese are coming on bus tours and snapping up property since it is so much cheaper here.

Comment by rex
2009-04-02 18:33:39

Forget about it. The Chinese are not buying this American downturn.

The Chinese and others who invested early have a very warp sense of real estate values that is difficult for normal people to understand. It’s like 100 million of them all got in on the original Apple IPO ala ‘Forrest Gump’…and then they still behave as if they are going to hit the $100 million Powerball tomorrow. To them a 300% increase over 5 years is like “What! It’s not like that in America?”

The Chinese real estate tourists here in the States are really grumbling about being cheated by the tour operators promises that US foreclosures has forced house prices down back to what they were in 2003. These “investors” are expecting the Chinese model…houses in Shanghai were 1/3 as expensive 5 years ago…so American houses should be 1/3 too!!! LOL!!! Naturally, they’re looking in Palo Alto, Berkerley, Cupertino in the Bay area: Westwood, Sunset Ave in Los Angeles: Cambridge In Boston and so fourth. They are demanding and are waiting for a REAL market crash. This puny 20% correction in these areas is a big scam and Americans must be worryworts. It’s a fake recession. One huge complaint from the “investors’was the number of TV cameras tracking their every move. It got so bad that some refused to leave their hotel rooms and had to rely on room services for the whole trip. Yeeech!!!

 
 
Comment by yogurt
2009-04-02 04:02:23

Vegas looks cheap to them because their own cities, Calgary and Edmonton Alberta, are also surrounded by empty land, are half as big, but are twice as expensive.

For now.

 
 
Comment by lauderdalian (now in 10003)
2009-04-01 11:30:22

Sorry for the double post, but I was hoping the LV people could help me out. I have a colleague in Las Vegas this week for a convention, and he wants to see up close the housing bubble madness that I’ve been talking about for so long. Are there any housing developments that are good for cruising in a rental car? Would love for him to see some of the neighborhoods with mass foreclosures, abandoned builder’s sales office, etc so that he’ll belive me about how bad it is out there. I really appreciate the help!

Comment by LVNYC
2009-04-01 19:27:36

When I read your post, I thought of this project that I’ve driven by occasionally. I searched, I found this:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/apr/17/chic-urban-and-deserted/

 
 
Comment by Howard Hirsch
2009-04-01 11:31:20

Tahoe’s got a long way to go, what with sellers with their heads in places where they can’t see anything. My son and I were up in Incline a couple of weeks ago, passed an open house and impulsively decided to check it out.

A 2BR 1970’s condo, nice enough but no view of the lake, access to the garage only through the breezeway, asking $498K. Yeah, right.

 
Comment by HARM
2009-04-01 11:33:23

“He said the days of putting 5 percent or less down on an expensive home have been rapidly replaced by an era in which banks require 20 percent down and mortgage payments don’t exceed 30 percent of the buyer’s income — which changes the price of a home a consumer can buy.”

GOD FORBID!

What’s this world coming to?? People putting 20% down (and even worse –using their own money!) *and* setting a 30% DTI ceiling! Hell, forget about DTI ratios, lenders are actually requiring income now! What’s next? Balanced budgets? Cats sleeping with dogs?

IT’S THE END OF THE WORLD!!

The government must step in and *do something* to stop this madness!

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-04-01 12:48:53

This might be enough to do some VanDamage, but I’d also like to see interest rates higher.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-04-01 13:04:27

HARM,

Too funny, some of the responses to these quotes kind of write themselves don’t they?

I spoke this morning with a local reporter and he explained to me that one of the things that took place was that once specuvestors wore out their welcome at the bigger lenders, the scammers were forced to move “down stream” to smaller banks that were perhaps not aware they were -already- leveraged to the hilt!

In some cases they even made modest MEW deposits to our local bank as a show of wealth and “sign” of good faith just in order to get the loan, and then quickly drew the account down within short order after getting their new loan! One of the comments the reporter told me he heard in researching the story was “This local bank failure is tearing the very fabric of this town APART!”

From someone that’s experiencing it first hand, I absolutely agree. It may take us years… to recover, we may -never- recover. But thanks guys.

Comment by HARM
2009-04-02 13:19:48

Hiya DinOR –so how’s life in Stumptown these days?

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-04-01 14:01:56

Cue up the REM: “It’s the end of the world as we know it…”

 
Comment by Crusader
2009-04-01 15:04:09

30% sounds interesting, but is totally unrealistic. I’m at 43% right now, but will decrease a bit after refi.

Comment by HARM
2009-04-02 13:22:55

I disagree. The only reason Klownifornians and people in bubbly markets tend to believe otherwise was the insane leverage that distorted their perception of what “normal” is. 30% DTI should be *plenty* of leverage to buy an average house in any market.

 
 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-04-01 14:34:03

“Real-estate agent Walt Danley, who has been selling homes in Paradise Valley for more than 30 years, estimates the area’s prices are down about 30 percent from the peak in 2005-06. He said foreclosure properties owned by lenders have hurt Paradise Valley’s housing market. But now, as in many other parts of the Valley, activity and buyer interest is picking up in Paradise Valley. ‘We are at the bottom or very close,’ he said.”

Congratulations Catherine Reagor for pulling out her rolodex of realtors and providing another fascinating article.

Comment by Natalie
2009-04-01 14:54:46

I would like to recognize any honest Realtors out there. If anyone can post any websites or materials in which a Realtor whom is currently working states that it a bad time to buy and the area in which they work really isn’t the special, I would be interesting in seeing it.

Comment by JohnB
2009-04-01 16:16:16

Hi Natalie, sorry to all if this post’s twice.

I ran across a realtor in the Seattle area named Ira Sacharoff. On his activerain profile he says -

“I’m currently suggesting to potential clients that now might not be a good time to buy, that Seattle is likely to see further price drops. This goes contrary to what many real estate professionals advise. But I’ve got a clear conscience and consider myself more of a consumer advocate than a salesman. ”

I don’t know anything around him other than that, so take it for what it is worth.

 
 
 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-04-01 15:12:42

Hey Ben, and anyone else familiar with Arizona…what areas are considered attractive to live in? I want to start doing my homework early, but I really have no idea about Arizona other that…IT IS HOT!

What are a few good zip codes to be looking in? I know this is like asking for a few good zips in California, but just wondering what comes to your mind? This is for our retirement. Looking for a decent climate. Proximity to jobs not a factor. Like to be near amenities. Condo or SFH is fine.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Comment by AZtoORtoCOtoOR
2009-04-01 15:42:00

Not every place is hot in AZ. If you are in the Flagstaff area, you may only see highs in the 70’s during the summer. If you are in valley of the sun area (Phoenix metro), yes it can (and will) be hot in the summer. Tucson, Yuma, and other desert areas will be hot as well.

For me, I would live in the valley, and then plan to get out of the valley for a few weeks each summer to get a break from the heat. 9 months of the year it can be pleasant to live in the valley. Plenty of people don’t mind the heat and if you enjoy a pool in your backyard, the heat is very easy to deal with. We loved our pool in the warm evenings of the summer.

If you like mountains, there is Flagstaff, Sedona, possibly Prescott (pronouned Prescut), Payson. Eastern AZ is quite rural. Areas like Eager/Springerville, Snowflake & Sholo are small towns out east.

I only lived there for 3 years, so I am by no means an expert. I hope to have a winter home there when I am retired, or at least don’t have kids in school that keep me tied down. My youngest is about to start Kindergarten, so I have many years to go before it happens. However, at the present rate of decline in housing, they may be paying me to get a winter home.

Just need to know what you are looking for.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-01 17:01:52

‘Prescott (pronouned Prescut)’

Ha ha. Yes, say Pres-scott up there and you will be corrected very quickly. Kinda like they do in “Nev-add-a”

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-04-01 16:20:57

Okay, from the Tucson metro area, here are our most attractive zip codes:

85718 (Catalina Foothills)
85737 (which actually is Oro Valley)
85750 (Catalina Foothills)

Within the City of Tucson:

85715
85716

Hope this helps!

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-01 16:57:48

Yeah, I have to wear long underwear until sometime in May. I just got back from a hike in the forest, and there is still snow in spots. Last year in Flagstaff, we got 4 inches of snow on Memorial Day.

Up here on top of the Colorado Plateau (approx. 7000 feet elevation), it is pretty cool in the summer. Lower down in Sedona, (4500 feet and only 25 miles away) it gets hot in the summer. Prescott is also cool. I think their elevation is between 5-6000.

IMO, you should narrow down what kind of activities you want. Outside of the valley (Phoenix, etc) there aren’t many cities. So if you like entertainment, etc, this will shorten your list quickly.

Comment by HighDesertVista
2009-04-02 09:45:56

How about building lots in these mountain areas.. is that an area that has also corrected? I’m in a similar bind.. planning retirement but not quite there yet (a few years from now) and not a fan of buying now and renting.
HDV

 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-04-02 10:27:47

Thanks for the help everyone. It sounds like I have a lot more homework to do, but you guys gave me a good start.

Thank you!

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-01 15:21:31

Given the low chances of action on the toxic asset problem by G20 leaders, it looks like the global financial crisis is destined to continue for the foreseeable future.

Financial Times
G20 leaders accused over toxic assets
By Chris Giles, George Parker and Gillian Tett in London
Published: April 1 2009 20:04 | Last updated: April 1 2009 20:04

World leaders at the G20 summit on Thursday are ducking the critical issue of cleaning up the toxic assets poisoning the banking system and risk prolonging the worst global recession in generations, the International Monetary Fund chief warned on Wednesday.

On the eve of a summit aiming to agree a “global plan for recovery and reform”, Dominique Strauss-Kahn told the Financial Times that the fund’s experience from 122 banking crises suggested “that you never recover before the cleaning up of the banking sector has been done”.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-01 15:54:02

Home prices are still too high and have considerably further to fall. No fooling!

Wall Street Journal
* ROI
* APRIL 1, 2009, 11:07 A.M. ET

Home Prices: Low, But Still No Bargain
Forget low mortgage rates and the buyer’s market. Real-estate prices still have a long way to fall.

By BRETT ARENDS

Homeowners are watching anxiously for any signs of housing market stabilization. So, too, are all those who believe the market may hold the key to the economy.

And yet the most recent data makes for more gloomy reading.

The closely watched Case-Shiller index, which tracks prices across twenty major cities, shows that through January the crash was getting worse, not better.

And yet, even after these declines, homes overall still may not be that cheap relative to wages. More on that later.

The headline numbers are grim enough. January’s Case-Shiller index showed a 19% slump from a year earlier. The usual suspects fared very badly: Phoenix was down a remarkable 35%. Las Vegas fell 32% and Miami 29%.

Comment by Ernst Blofeld
2009-04-01 21:10:29

Piggington’s figures the San Diego price-to-income ratio is now, after the huge drops of the last few years, about at the historical average. Of course there’s also still an overhang of foreclosures and no end in sight to the NOD’s, so it’s not likely a bottom.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-01 15:59:44

Wall Street Journal
After the Boom
In the Exurbs, the American Dream Is Up for Rent
By CONOR DOUGHERTY

PLANO, Ill. — Kim and Robert Discianno had the American dream. Now, they rent a few streets away.

The Disciannos moved from Aurora, Ill., to their home here in Plano three years ago, lured to the outermost fringes of suburbs, known as the exurbs, by the promise of owning their first home. Today, their credit is shot and they no longer own, but Ms. Discianno still has a four-hour commute.

The Disciannos are among many exurban families losing their homes and their grip on the dream of home ownership. The exurbs were among the fastest growing counties during the boom — entire civilizations built around the idea of owning real estate. With home prices falling and unemployment rising, more people are renting — just as they had before the boom — and turning the community into a rental economy.

Many Plano residents in the newer homes are facing foreclosure as a result of rising property taxes based on the need for new governmental and community services.

Photos: Playing Musical Houses

Renting is one of the few ways for people to stay in the area and keep landlords afloat. It can be good for the overall economy because it promotes mobility. When the economy turns downward, renters are more willing than owners to move to a region where jobs are more plentiful.

But that same mobility can make for less stable communities and lower property values. Some observers believe the growth of rental property is the first in a series of steps that will transform today’s exurbs into tomorrow’s low-income housing. These communities have a low tax base made up mostly of property and sales taxes, both of which are in decline. Lawrence Summers, economic adviser to President Barack Obama, has often explained it this way: “No one in the history of the world ever washed a rented car.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-01 23:00:05

“Second homes accounted for 30 percent of all U.S. home sales in 2008, down from 33 percent in 2007, according to a report released Monday by the National Association of Realtors. Investment and vacation properties accounted for 40 percent of housing market sales during the height of the housing bubble in 2005.”

30 percent of all home sales still sounds like second homes were at mania levels even last year. This bubble is deflating very gradually, though I expect the air will deflate a lot quicker this year now that job loss is a looming prospect for many.

Manny likes to talk a lot about how everyone should own a vacation home. Is Manny really just a code name for mania?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-01 23:26:23

Manhattan real-estate market gets Roubinied:

Wall Street Journal
* REAL ESTATE
* APRIL 2, 2009

Manhattan Real-Estate Market Skids as Sales Slump
By DAWN WOTAPKA

NEW YORK — Manhattan’s real-estate market has come crashing back to earth.

Sales of units in newly constructed buildings dropped 67% in the first quarter, and closings slid 52% compared with a year earlier. Inventory climbed 29% to 12,336 listings in March, the highest level in more than eight years, according to a report by real-estate brokerage The Corcoran Group and PropertyShark.com.

Reports due out Thursday provide more evidence. Real-estate site StreetEasy.com says that more than a third of listings shaved prices in the first quarter, with the average cut topping 9%. Halstead Property says that apartments sold during the period stayed on the market 18% longer than a year ago.

“I would describe this as a new market — we essentially hit a reset button. It wasn’t like it declined in a slope; it declined in a step,” said Jonathan Miller, chief executive of Manhattan real-estate consulting and appraisal firm Miller Samuel Inc.

 
Comment by midi
2009-04-02 03:18:29

Hey - I live in Tucson at the corner of Broadway & Alvernon in a nice quadplex where we have two units for rent - $925 for 1200 sq ft.
Real nice area - close to everything and cooler than Phoenix in the summer.

Still lots of houses in the area for sale but not many selling - this is the one I want:

http://www.windmillrealty.net/listings/C98CD83F-B852-14AE-6819AD511DB16DED.shtml

Down to $469K frrom $499K - better move on it!

 
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