Vacant Subdivisions And Other Troubled Assets
The News & Observer reports from North Carolina. “At Brighton Ridge, a new subdivision in Angier, a sign welcoming buyers features a child in sunglasses and bathing suit, lazing on an inflatable doughnut. But the neighborhood is hardly so inviting. Empty lots are littered with bricks, sewer pipes and for-sale signs. Fewer than a quarter of the 55 homes planned at Brighton Ridge are finished. Down the road is Wellington, where street lights line a network of roads that lead nowhere. Brush is growing on land that was cleared to sprout 70 houses. Not one has been built.”
“‘It’s a ghost neighborhood that never happened,’ said Dennis Cyrus, the president of Den-Mark Construction, the neighborhood’s developer.”
“The scenario has put about one-fifth of this region’s homebuilders out of business, leaving homeowners angry about absentee developers, worried about their financial future or simply wanting for pool-side cabanas that may never be.In some of these subdivisions, a smattering of early buyers live in real estate limbo; they bought into a plan their builders can’t complete.”
“‘They can’t get anything sold,’ said Diane Hardy, who lives in Winston Ridge, an unfinished subdivision in Youngsville. ‘They can’t get anything finished, and it’s sad.’”
“The sign at the neighborhood’s entrance boasts the developer’s motto: Perception is reality. But at L’Hermitage at Beaver Creek in Apex, that reality means weeds taller than a teenager, a clubhouse pool filled with green water and half-built, mold-infested houses. Families live in two completed homes, which sold for $536,000 and $480,000 in 2007. For neighbors, they have the skeletal remains of homes that never came to be. Diversified Communities, the New Jersey builder behind the project, walked away last year.”
“‘They left town,’ said Dianne Khin, Apex’s planning director, ‘and they didn’t come back.’”
The Sun News from South Carolina. “Carl and Peggy Hoffer don’t mind peace and quiet, but they got more of it than they bargained for when they bought their home in Carolina Crossing. The builder Portrait Homes, halted construction after it defaulted on the loan it got to develop the neighborhood. Next door, a roofless house sits in mid-construction.”
“A handful of other half-built houses across the development have also been abandoned, one a mere wooden framework. Construction crews simply disappeared one day and never came back, the Hoffers said. ‘We knew nothing about it,’ Peggy Hoffer said. It was summer, and ‘it was real hot. We thought maybe they’re not working because it’s so hot.’”
“In Country Manor in Conway, homeowner Hank Grabarz said his home’s value has probably already dropped because of the row of unfinished homes across from his. ‘I can tell you right now it’s probably dropped about 30 percent,’ he said. ‘I’ve watched the market value of the houses across the road start out at one number and end up at another number.’”
“The houses have been sitting like that for at least a year, he said. The exteriors look finished, but open garage doors reveal raw interiors, and black tarp surrounds unlandscaped yards. They will probably need a lot of work if someone wants to finish them, Grabarz said. Something like that can be a bargaining point for buyers, and can drive down prices across the development, said Tom Maeser, market analyst for the Coastal Carolinas Association of Realtors.”
“‘Typically if a house is sitting there, it has a negative impact on the image of the neighborhood, no question,’ he said. ‘That builder, if they go into foreclosure, that house goes on the market at a very, very low price.’”
The Atlanta Journal Constitution from Georgia. “Appraising homes during a real estate bust is rough, but appraisers face an even tougher task valuing vacant subdivisions and other troubled assets on many banks’ books. Georgia’s banks collectively hold billions of dollars’ worth of delinquent loans on foreclosed houses, vacant subdivisions and other troubled assets. Many of the state’s banks had bet heavily on the housing boom in metro Atlanta by making substantial loans to builders and developers.”
“The bust two years ago saddled many banks with difficult-to-value projects such as the Rockdale County townhouse project , who has been an appraiser since 1983, was asked to appraise recently.
A client he won’t name asked him to appraise the townhouse development, which has more than a dozen buildings, after the bank that made the loan failed. The bank failure shut down the builder with three buildings still unfinished, Fries said.”
“The project presents a dilemma for his client, he said. Property values have dropped from roughly $80,000 per unit to $50,000, making it possibly unprofitable to complete construction, though some buildings are nearly 60 percent finished. But even though on paper it might make more sense to bulldoze the unfinished buildings, he added, that would drive down the values of the finished units where more than 100 families live.”
“‘I would imagine they’re scratching their heads wondering what to do,’ said Fries, who has essentially appraised that part of the project as worthless. ‘It’s a tough call.’”
“Last week, accounting rule makers approved changes that will give banks relief from so-called ‘mark-to-market’ accounting that forced them to report heavy losses on ‘distressed’ investments, such as mortgage-backed securities. However, bankers said the change doesn’t bring relief from a similar accounting rule requiring write-downs on troubled real estate loans in which the underlying property has plunged in value.”
“That rule ‘has the potential to make more banks fail,’ said Steve Bridges, president of the Community Bankers Association of Georgia. ‘You’re using real capital to cover theoretical losses [on paper.]‘”
The Pensacola News Journal from Florida. “Next week, Yellow Creek Ranch developers will ask the Santa Rosa Local Planning Board for a green light. The Yellow Creek Ranch plan: 1,200 ‘housing units’ atop 1,500 acres of East Milton land. The home prices are in what developers call the ‘popular price range’ of $150,000-$225,000. We have two words of caution for the Planning Board: Remember Jubilee.”
“Jubilee, or Contrada Hills, or whatever name it now uses, was a huge development planned near Pace. It had splashy billboards. It had a kickoff party with a well-known country music star. It is now in litigation, another casualty of Florida’s housing hangover.”
“Our cause for concern is that our real estate market is struggling, with 5,347 homes currently listed on the market at a median price of $138,000. Even when the economy returns, homeowners and agents will sell against the glut of regular unsold homes as well as a number of foreclosed homes. But the recession isn’t the only problem. In Escambia County at least, we are losing population, not gaining it.”
“Unemployment already is hovering around 9 percent; where would the new Yellow Creek homeowners work? Retirees? Not likely, as Florida has become, at best, the fourth choice for seniors. Yes, the development might create some jobs. But building homes under the justification of economic development, in the long term, has not served Florida well.”
“On its own, Yellow Creek Ranch might be a worthy project. But in a recession where Florida’s housing market is the hardest hit, we have to ask: Do we really need more houses for sale?”
The Sun Sentinel from Florida. “This was the plan: Transform a historical dairy farm into a mammoth $1 billion development packed with homes, multistory condo towers and commercial space. But the housing boom went bust and developer TOUSA Inc. filed for bankruptcy protection last year, leaving residents and city leaders wondering what would become of the sprawling project dubbed Monterra.”
“They now have their answer: The new owner of the parcel, Coral Gables-based developer Jim Carr, wants to build less on his 400 acres. Five-story buildings will be scaled down to two or three; instead of 1,910 homes, he will build fewer than 1,800. Carr thinks single-family homes are a better fit for Cooper City, a bedroom community of 30,000.”
“South Florida already has an estimated 33-month supply of vacant condos and a one-year supply of single-family homes, said Brad Hunter, chief economist for Metrostudy. Carr thinks that’s reason enough for an auto-dependent region like South Florida to rethink its embrace of high-density, mixed-use development.”
“Such projects look good in theory, but ‘historically they don’t work,’ he said, pointing to failed projects from West Palm Beach to Miami. ‘Then you’re just sitting there with empty space.’”
“The Florida Association of Realtors reported that median home prices statewide rose in February to $141,900, the first monthly uptick in six months. In February, the number of existing single-family homes sold in Broward and Palm Beach jumped by 39 percent and 33 percent, respectively, over the year before.”
“The spike in sales is fueled by lower South Florida housing prices, which, on average, are about 45 percent below the peak in 2005. ‘A couple of months ago, nobody wanted to buy, at any price virtually,’ said economist Brad Hunter of MetroStudy.”
“Michael Arno thinks it’s time to buy. Arno hopes to snap up a home in West Boynton for $75,000 less than he would have paid last year. ‘I’m getting ready to start a family, and renting doesn’t work any more,’ he said.”
From CBS 12 in Florida. “For the folks living in the Shakerwood community, in Wellington, higher HOA fees have skyrocketed in recent months. Residents there are having to pay $230 more, and there are multiple reason for the fee hike. The neighborhood consisting of 92 homes, has 25 to 30 of those homes empty. ‘We don’t have many people paying on time or at all. We do have foreclosures, and the money is not there… I just feel like a victim who has to pay for everybody else,’ said Anthony Candusso, a resident.”
“Contractually, a bank does not have to pay association fees once foreclosure proceedings have been filed. But residents still have to pay. ‘When a bank is in foreclosure it’s not paying assessments… It’s not obligated to pay assessments… So therefore, it’s in the banks best interest to drag out the foreclosure as long as possible,’ said David Karpinia, an attorney.”
“Making matters worse, the residents living in Shakerwood, don’t enjoy a community pool or a guardhouse. In fact, in the past couple of years, they’ve had their street repaved and that’s it. And paying hundreds more in HOA fees, is hurting Candusso and neighbors financially. ‘It hurts a whole lot because my husband just got laid off and I clean houses for a living, but everyone has left or can’t afford me… So I’m not doing anything,’ said Danielle Goldberg.”
The Naples News. “Under the current real estate economic client in Florida, many banks and other financial institutions holding first mortgages are contributing to the delinquency of condominium and homeowners’ associations’ assessment funds by stalling to initiate foreclosure actions and then by failing to timely complete their foreclosures once their cases have been filed.”
“These financial institutions holding first mortgages do not want to obtain title through foreclosure during a flat real estate market because then they will have to start paying assessments on units or homes that they may not be able to quickly sell.”
“No assessments are being paid by anyone on these units. Even worse is trying to get these banks and financial institutions to consider or take reasonable short sale offers from ready, willing and able buyers. It appears banks have no experience in short sales or have no competent staff able to review short sales.”
“We have seen banks shoot themselves in the foot by refusing a decent short sale offer and then go through foreclose and get the unit. When they finally sell the unit after foreclosure, the price may be hundreds of thousands of dollars less than if they had taken the short sale. It is as if their work-out department belongs to a different company than their foreclosure department.”
The Bradenton Herald from Florida. “The Manatee County administrator recommended Thursday cutting road impact fees by 25 percent, while commissioners leaned more toward eliminating all impact fees for a year. Citing the need to create jobs, Commissioner Donna Hayes was the first to suggest deferring county impact fees for a year. ‘We have to act quickly,’ Hayes said. ‘We are in very difficult economic times.’”
“Randy Young, of Henderson, Young and Co., said when he started researching the data for his report a lot of changes happened in the Manatee County economy, including the collapse of the housing market. Because of the economic downturn, the construction of new homes in the county has almost come to a stop, eliminating the need for new roads. At the same time, the cost to construct new roads also has declined.”
“Young said changing the impact fee structure would not rescue the housing market. ‘There’s a big stock of housing out there,’ he said. ‘If the county didn’t have impact fees today (the developers) are not going to start building them.’”
“Developers, contractors and real estate business people lined up behind the podium to say otherwise. Many of them related how they have had to lay off many of their workers because of the slump. Britt Williams, of Bruce Williams Homes, said there are home buyers looking from Naples to Pasco County for the best deal and would make the leap if the cost was reduced $10,000.”
“In a telephone interview after the meeting, Sean Snaith, executive director of University of Central Florida’s Institute of Economic Competitiveness, said impact fees probably have little to do with the housing crisis, and suspending them would not stimulate job creation. ‘We faced the same concerns with Amendment 1 (which reduced property taxes),’ Snaith said. ‘They said it was going to jump start the economy, but it only furthered the crisis.’”
The News Press from Florida. “In February, the last month available, 454 bankruptcies were filed in Southwest Florida — 68 percent more than the 271 filed a year earlier. In Florida, there were 67,649 bankruptcies in 2008 — up 63 percent from 41,462 in 2007, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.”
“Bankruptcies filed by Florida businesses are increasing even faster: up 93 percent from 2,029 in 2007 to 3,923 in 2008. ‘Unfortunately you’re almost ground zero for financial ills from the perspective of the individual,’ said Jack Williams, a bankruptcy professor at Georgia State University in Atlanta. ‘You’re seeing a subgroup of people we would not have anticipated being candidates even a year ago. Many of these people have never failed at anything significant since they’ve been an adult.’”
“Charles Phoenix, a Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney, said the trend means that some middle-class people who can ride through a typical downturn are finding themselves tapped out. ‘You’re starting to see people with high-end employment and the inability to amortize mortgages,’ he said. ‘Those people are starting to buckle.’”
“Pamela Leslie was doing database and computer work for mailing-list company AccuData when she started on the sharp decline into bankruptcy. Leslie, of Cape Coral, was laid off by in November 2007 and could not find another job. ‘I lost everything,’ she said. ‘My home, car and jewelry and credit.’”
A number of interesting points in these stories: first, when I started posting photos in this blogs gallery back in 2006, the new subdivisions I shot were already almost empty. How could people not see that? I just don’t know.
‘Contractually, a bank does not have to pay association fees once foreclosure proceedings have been filed. But residents still have to pay…We have seen banks shoot themselves in the foot by refusing a decent short sale offer and then go through foreclose and get the unit. When they finally sell the unit after foreclosure, the price may be hundreds of thousands of dollars less than if they had taken the short sale.’
I have been saying that what is happening in the foreclosure market is silly. These moratoriums and foot dragging only mean bigger losses for the lenders and a pain in the butt for the neighbors.
‘Last week, accounting rule makers approved changes that will give banks relief from so-called ‘mark-to-market’ accounting that forced them to report heavy losses on ‘distressed’ investments, such as mortgage-backed securities. However, bankers said the change doesn’t bring relief from a similar accounting rule requiring write-downs on troubled real estate loans in which the underlying property has plunged in value. ‘That rule ‘has the potential to make more banks fail,’ said Steve Bridges, president of the Community Bankers Association of Georgia. ‘You’re using real capital to cover theoretical losses [on paper.]‘
Sure, lets just change the accounting rules and all this will go away. It worked so well for Japan!
Our politicians keep taking the easy way out at every juncture. But how often in life, when faced with past mistakes, does the easy way not end up being more painful in the long run?
“But how often in life, when faced with past mistakes, does the easy way not end up being more painful in the long run?”
That’s why I married a nice lady, and not a psycho-chick. The crazy ones were fun in college, but for the long run? Not so much… the Florida Gubmint keeps believing the one that’s crazy in bed isn’t going to slash your tires.
My depression is over. It’s was quick an relatively easy this time. I am ready to riff again and ZING! supposed “victims.”
glad you’re back!
“glad you’re back!”
Me too. I just decided that I don’t have time to be bunk. It’s amazing how much diet and exercise play into the situation. I was eating too much junk, sleeping too much, and just sitting around.
Besides, I don’t wanna miss out on the biggest “I told you so” moment in my life. Lol…
Not sure if y’all will think this is junk science, but there seems to be quite alot of evidence that junk food does aid & abet depression: http://naturalmedicine.suite101.com/article.cfm/depression_and_food
Science is super neat-o! And I also read some silly theory that junk food and sugar and too much meat and cheese causes ADD. That bein’ just the stupidest thing I ev…hey! Look! A pretty moth!
HAHAHA! (get it?)
Anyway, I started to say, I’m glad you’re back, too, Muggy. Very glad. I just barely posted a demand over in bits that ET show us pictures of his mini-ET, and you also, but I didn’t think you’d see it. But now you’re back, you can, so hurry up, man.
PS. I bet your mini-muggy is glad you’re back, too.
Hooray! Depression is no good. Glad you’re back!
My favorite ADD joke:
How many ADD kids does it take to screw in a light bulb?
Let’s go skateboarding!
Muggy,
Exercise (endorphins?) is the thing that keeps me going into the abyss. And when I’m too weary to exercise, it’s going to have to be diet. I am turning 50 in May but have been a fitness maniac since age 17. So when the MSM gawks at the high level of obese people, I fully understand what they mean and I believe them. Most people are unwilling to eat right and / or exercise. Too much drudgery and time-consuming.
Last time I was very depressed it was around age 17. Lately I have been sad and quiet, keeping to myself, but partly the reason is I listened to a relative tell me I’m too old to do this or like that. I won’t go into details. I have mild plaxir fasciitis. But other than that I do not feel old!
Goodness! Wow! I respect your attitude, Bill in LA! Healthy! Ready for anything!
(Okay, now, Bill–don’t read anymore, okay?)
Look, Muggy, don’t listen to Bill. That’s crazy talk! I am turning 37 in September, on the equinox. And I have not ever been a fitness maniac, most especially when I was 17. In fact, when I was 17 I used to run away and hide behind the metal bleachers in P.E. and there would always be some stoner Vocational/Ag. kids there who would share their drugs generously, and then at the end of class– or not— I would say ‘thanks!’ and then go bouncing out and give a beamy smile to Coach Steele as I ran away to the showers, patting at my brow, like I’d been running and throwing javelins or whatever for all hour.
Look, you can’t trust someone who was a fitness nut when they were freakin’ 17. That’s just not natchrell.
So glad to see you posting again Muggy. Now all we need is hoz to come back. Hope he is doing okay.
Ben:
The picture in the News and Observer is just the kind of pictures you need in your video. Abandoned projects, kids playing while houses rot, 1 buyer and a whole cul-de-sac sitting empty.
Those are what i hope will be in the final masterpiece.
Well, it’s not my video. It is a project of a German firm. Like I said, I was posting photos like that in 2006 in the gallery. I don’t think it will be hard to find. What I do have a chance to bring up is what these foreclosed houses look like. These people are a gone pecan, and the neighbors have to put up with it. In one house we looked at last week, the FB had left the water on and filled up the lower level with 12 inches of water. Mold damage, etc. One potential buyer came by and said he wouldn’t touch it. Now somebody has to sort out that mess.
But hey congress, lets have that house sit there until the summer; that will help!
“Like I said, I was posting photos like that in 2006 in the gallery. ”
Hell yeah, and I enjoyed cruising Pinellas County and sending them in. There were already abandoned structures at the height of the boom.
What’s entirely mind-boggling for cities like Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit, etc. is that there were already swaths of derelict ‘hoods throughout all of this — and the building continued.
Ben,
Late post and I will try to catch you another time. Wondering what would you change with respect to working through foreclosures and the process?
“Pamela Leslie was doing database and computer work for mailing-list company AccuData when she started on the sharp decline into bankruptcy. Leslie, of Cape Coral, was laid off by in November 2007 and could not find another job. ‘I lost everything,’ she said. ‘My home, car and jewelry and credit.
I love this gal’s priorities…the home, the car, the jewelry and the CREDIT. Perhaps you should have had some realistic real priorities and rented Leslie ?
Dang. Jewelry, huh? Diamonds are certainly not a girl’s best friend when you need the dough and your $14,000 bauble will only fetch 1k.
NPR had an interesting story about pawn shops that don’t have any cash to loan because few are reclaiming their pawned items and no one is buying the stuff on their shelfs. Great deals to be had.
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/04/03/pm_pawn_shops/
This economy is so bad that even the pawnshops will wind up going BK. Welcome to the world of better living through borrowing…
Diamonds are not my best friend. Gold and opals are my best friend
Nuh uhhh! Pearls are! I love pearls! Pearlspearlspearlspearls!
Bay Gal,
Are you related to my wife? Opals and gold
are her favorites. I did buy her a nice gold
bracelet set with emeralds and diamonds for
her birthday though….she liked it!
But opals are nice, too, I will allow.
Opals and gold are her favorites. I did buy her a nice gold bracelet set with emeralds and diamonds for
her birthday though….she liked it!
That’s a nice present. What’d she give as a ‘thank you?’ Oh, but besides opals, did you also give her many rib-eyes? That’s the question, here.
I’ll bet guns and ammo are still moving at pawn shops.
Construction crews simply disappeared one day and never came back . . . it was real hot. We thought maybe they’re not working because it’s so hot.
Oy veh. Another disconnect from reality.
I should go shoot some photos of the Pepperhills Condos around here and send it to you, Ben. Construction stopped abruptly circa spring 2008 and the buildings are going to rot and mold here in Boise. They got the frames up, the roof on, and the OSB on the sides - and then the workers vanished. The OSB didn’t even get covered in builder’s wrap plastic, and is turning black all over. Yuch. Behind the condos you can see where the condo’s perimeter fence construction ground to a halt one day. All of a sudden the fence stops and there’s just posts in the ground for 100 feet and then nothing.
“The sign at the neighborhood’s entrance boasts the developer’s motto: Perception is reality.”
I would think that anyone with an ounce of brains would turn around at that sign.
I don’t know. Maybe entering would be like one long acid trip.
Hey everybody,
Open House this afternoon at Mescaline Manors!
Down at the end of Jefferson Starship Lane.
Where you find Kantner Condos and the Slick Sidewalk Promenade.
At SFO
Headed to flyover country.
;-D
Crystal meth for everybody!!!!
Nah. Just psychedelics at this one. The crystal meth and crack and heroin is reserved for the realtors’ party over on Altamont Alley.
Check out model for The Hendrix. It’s got great patterns on the walls! And mushrooms growing in the basement!
The other side of that sign says; Greed is God! Loot, pillage and plunder while the getting is good…then run with the booty!
“The sign at the neighborhood’s entrance boasts the developer’s motto: Perception is reality.”
Bankruptcy’s just a state of mind, dude.
“Yellow Creek Ranch”
What an unfortunate name for a development. First, in Florida, the association with yellow fever. And then the association with, well, you know. Call me juvenile, but all I can think about are those childhood jokes about “Yellow River” by IP Daily and similar stuff.
Yeah, the “Yellow Creek” is what will be running down the FBs’ legs as they discover they’ve wasted their lifes’ earnings to enrich the RE/Banking industry…
LOL - what where those marketing people thinking anyhow?
I love the developments named “forest brook” or “forest estates” where there is not a tree bigger than 1″ around for miles.
There should be some sort of truth in real estate name act. The should be named “concrete valley” or “asphalt forest”.
Where is aladinsane when you need him?
Just as funny is the idea of a development in North Carolina named “L’Hermitage.” Perhaps it was intended for European speculators.
The comments in the Pensacola paper about Escambia County losing population and lacking jobs, and about Florida now being the “fourth choice for seniors,” probably are not reaching as many ears as they should. I see no evidence whatsoever that our state and local political institutions are changing their thought processes, but change is happening whether they like it or not.
Yeah, because of the yellow tinge, we kids used to call Mountain Dew “bear whiz”.
“The Manatee County administrator recommended Thursday cutting road impact fees by 25 percent, while commissioners leaned more toward eliminating all impact fees for a year. Citing the need to create jobs, Commissioner Donna Hayes was the first to suggest deferring county impact fees for a year. ‘We have to act quickly,’ Hayes said. ‘We are in very difficult economic times.’”
What a stupid (fill in the blank)! Oh, SURE, cut or eliminate impact fees, but keep taxing the homeowners at fantasy assessments. LOL! A lot of local politicians are just so anxious to ape their counterparts in Washington, aren’t they? Notice her frantic “we’ve got to mimic the TARP fraud” fearmongering.
Ben said; “I have been saying that what is happening in the foreclosure market is silly. These moratoriums and foot dragging only mean bigger losses for the lenders and a pain in the butt for the neighbors…‘Last week, accounting rule makers approved changes that will give banks relief from so-called ‘mark-to-market’ accounting that forced them to report heavy losses on ‘distressed’ investments, such as mortgage-backed securities.”
RE experts say the worst will be prices falling to Year 2000-2001 levels, which of course a LOT of us here were predicting what, 4 or 5 years ago?
IMO they ALL will they drop to 1989 - 1997 levels, excluding the rich enclaves, where they were stable for nearly a decade.
It seems that the economic geniuses that brought us this economic collapse, and are STILL running the show, are not familiar with the economic recession “double-dip” phenomenon, last seen in 1980-82. THAT is what we will get here, if we’re lucky. Most likely though we’re gonna get a serious of economic crashes & bear rallies until ALL faith in the markets, which includes RE is EXHAUSTED - Then we’ll get a nice bond market dislocation like we did in 1933.
The HARD truth is this: After receiving a $14 trillion jolt of bail-outs and stimulus, the economic cadaver begins to twitch and convulse. That is what we are seeing now. Nothing more. Once the stimulative jolt has worn off (soon), the economic cadaver is again motionless upon the slab.
OF course we have to nauseously observe the RE parasites froth at the mouth, but they’ll get no more blood feasts from FBs like they did from 2002-2007.
And at this point there is no money left for any further bail-outs/stimulus and SHEER PANIC is about to set in. Probably what we have to look forward to in 2010.
Take a look at this wonderful chart everyone:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/uploads/debt-trend-breakdown_2.jpg
- The setup for this crisis is at least as bad as the Great Depression.
- Any rebound would be predicated on the belief that we found some creative way to make current debt levels sustainable, and go on our merry ways.
Based on the 2 points above, I am quite confident that things are still going to hell. I do not see a recovery.
You can not borrow your way to riches, in the end the MATH ALWAYS WINS.
Get ready for the GREATER DEPRESSION…
P.S. The U.S. employment base, or lack thereof, tells anyone with a zip code in reality what is ABOUT to happen - A collapse in the numbers still employed, coupled with deflationary salary levels has only ONE mathematical conclusion.
And -NO- it does not support a rebound in the RE markets.
And -NO- it does not support a rebound in the RE markets.
But the NAR told me there will be a rebound in six months…
Now when was that? Oh yea, 2006 (a bunch), 2007, 2008, 2009…
Got Popcorn?
Neil
I had the same thought. Foreclosure moratoriums can’t possibly help. At best, the person will sort of keep the house intact until the bank gets it. More likely, the house will be abandoned, purposely trashed, or rented out to a tenant while the owner pockets the rent. (All three of which are happening; examples easily available from news stories.)
That’s what I’ve been thinking for a while. In a neighborhood where foreclosures predominate, getting abandoned/foreclosed houses sold to (relatively) responsible owners quickly is really the only way to prevent the neighborhood from disintegrating. Keeping broke people in REOs is only likely to lead to those properties becoming just as run-down as they would have been if they had been abandoned.
Plus, what happens if a family isn’t paying its mortgage but still has children in the local public schools? Those families are effectively getting their children educated “for free” - they’re not even paying their fair share of the associated property taxes.
“Get ready for the GREATER DEPRESSION…” ?
Hey…I’m up to my ears in paperwork, working and trying to manipulate TurboTax here. The Government’s Bailout is Comingggg…eventually..it’s coming !!!
This stuff has me thinking: Since government cannot create wealth, it must steal wealth from taxpayers to prop up home prices when the Alt-A and Option ARM resets of 2010 and 2011 take their toll.
It’s putting off the inevitable. It will be a smoke and mirrors thing as usual. Responsible renters and those who already own their homes will be paying to bail out the NINJA loans of ALT-As and subsidize the bigger mortgage payments of the Option ARM loans.
Here is how you can be defensive against the confiscatory taxes Obama is going to push Congress to enact:
If you are employed in 2009 this is your last chance to load up on T-bills, Series I bonds ($10,000 limit, unfortunately), and TIPS to keep your tax profile low and have relative safety.
This summer will be a great opportunity as well to load up on gold bullion. Gold prices are probably going to fall to the $700 spot figure temporarily.
mikey,
It’s been a Turbo Tax day for us too. It didn’t import all our broker data completely, so I need to finish it, doing it manually from the yr end statement. Our fed bill was $18K (not real, thank God), when I turned it off. That ought to motivate me.
What amazes me is how long it is taking for these empty development to foreclose. We have several in my neck of the woods that have been sitting empty for 2 years, and the lender still hasn’t taken over. What in the world are they waiting for? Lot prices need to drop by at least half to build somewhat affordable houses, but that can’t happen as long as everyone is allowed to play pretend on development loans.
Now we are facing major layoffs by the towns dominant employer, lenders who held off foreclosing lost BIG TIME relative to an expedient foreclosure a year ago.
RE: Many of the state’s banks had bet heavily on the housing boom in metro Atlanta by making substantial loans to builders and developers.”
Boo-fookin’ hoo, for these losers.
How interesting that all these banking incompetant’s could employ the services of of a gaggle of math and finance hipster’s to come up with the formula’s to construct an alphabet soup of mortgage backed securities and attendant derivatives to unload their bogus originations, but couldn’t seem to hire the right appraisal professionals to estabish up an appropriate absorption rate analysis for the loans to construct all the busted subdivisions.
Gimme sum ‘mo dat dere TARP money, O’ Bamie boy!
Went around town yesterday (Miami, Miami Beach,) you’d never know there was an economic crisis.
Mostly that way in Pinellas, too.
Same here on this side of the bay. A lot of snowbirds did split after the first of the month, but oddly, we seem to have an influx of European transplants.
Lots of English and Canadian buyers - Central America and South America too - With a weak dollar other countries are buying up what there is - hard for prices to go down when you have international buying through the internet because to them it is a great deal
These absentee owners will leave the A/C off for the summer. When they come back in October and see the mold, they’ll just hop on the plane and go back where they came from…
Justsayno to what? common sense? What weak dollar? to the pound? To any foreign investors: thoroughly investigate property taxes before investing in FL RE. Do not trust/believe the sellers agent. Taxes and insurance make FL housing a bad investment. Some condos are literally worth zero.
“Lots of English and Canadian buyers - Central America and South America too - With a weak dollar other countries are buying up what there is - hard for prices to go down when you have international buying through the internet because to them it is a great deal…”
Hahaha!
If that’s true they’re the next wave of knife catching FBs…sold to them!
Actually, I hope it is true - I’ve been building my savings since 2002 when I first caught a whiff of housing mania (totally overbid by sheeple with liar loans).
Of course I’ve had to bounce it around a bit to avoid INSOLVENT banks, currently it’s in T-Bills and I’m getting worried Uncle Sugar, fka Uncle Sam, will be going insolvent too!
Please encourage MORE morons to buy into a still inflated RE market so that in 2011-2012 there will be NO ONE that can get a loan.
P.S. I don’t NEED a loan…
Folks seem to be driving around, shopping, and going out to eat pretty much as before in my ‘hood. But there are tons of commercial lease signs along the main drag, and many vacant spaces have been sitting empty for months, including a shuttered Albertson’s, Von’s & and Hollywood Video. Add to the list Circuit City and HomeExpo, and La Salsa (a local Mexican food chain that never seemed to have any business in this location). But, Lululemon is still selling $100 yoga pants for those who are spiritually minded to spend.
Well thank God the spiritually minded can still get $100 yoga pants. It’s nice to see that the world has not gone completely mad.
…deep clearing breaths…
Hoz, was that you that wrote that letter to Kunstler?
Where is Hoz? Is he OK, or just taking a breather?
would most here agree we’re headed for Japan 90’s vs Argetina 50’s
???
In the economic circles I frequent, the only scenario that comes to mind is the Great Depression and the Crash of 1873.
We’d have bread lines already if it wasn’t for Welfare/Food Stamp debit cards
Also, the credit cards are still working for those that haven’t maxed-out & believe Skittles spreading Unicorns are gonna save us!
Due to the INSOLVENT banks being enabled by the .gov to hide toxic assets with TAXPAYER money/liability, it hasn’t gotten BAD yet…
Not yet, but that will change VERY quickly by 2009 QIII when the chickens come home to roost.
Good luck all, I’ve got to get back to my business so I can make money while it’s still able to be made…
The depression after the Panic of 1873 finally abated in 1879, the Great Depression lasted through the 1930’s, but this downturn will end happily this year thank god [sarcasm intended].
Jeez, like that’s the ONE question that would make us gaziollaires if we knew the answer.
I for one have spent some time on it.
And I am not spending any of those gazillions yet.