It’s Not Going To Be Steak And Lobster Anymore
The Courier Journal reports from Kentucky. “Widespread foreclosures and depressed housing sales are dropping the assessed valuations of thousands of Jefferson County homes this year — with western Louisville hit hardest. The county has reduced the assessment values for more than 26,000 homes, dropping them 4 percent to 18 percent, Jefferson Property Valuation Administrator Tony Lindauer said. Most homes with new valuations were last reassessed three or four years ago. Local revenue from property taxes has generally been growing 4 percent to 6 percent in recent years.”
“That lower growth rate could make it tough for some governments, including the city, government officials admit. ‘It’s not going to be steak and lobster anymore,’ said Debbie Linnig Michals, Lindauer’s spokeswoman, referring to government agencies that depend on property taxes. ‘It’s going to be beans and potatoes.’”
“Metro Council President David Tandy, D-4th District, saw the assessment on his home on West Chestnut drop from $167,000 last year to $135,120. Tandy said the widespread devaluation in western Louisville reflects the downside of having ‘a high number of absentee landlords.’ ‘It is what it is,’ Tandy said.”
The News Leader from Virginia. “Home sale numbers in the greater Augusta County region speak volumes — purchases peaked in 2005 at 1,530 homes and slid to just 1,040 in 2008 — but local Realtors remain hopeful that sales will rebound this spring and summer, pointing to several developments such as a housing inventory that has shot up nearly 60 percent, increased interest from prospective buyers, low interest rates and an $8,000 tax credit aimed at first-time home buyers.”
“‘I’m very optimistic about the coming months,’ said Max Miller of Real Estate Plus in Verona. ‘There’s a tremendous amount of properties for sale.’ Miller said the real estate market has always fluctuated between boom and bust, and said the 2009 market is no different. ‘It always comes back, and it will come back,’ he said.”
“But gone are the days of buyers putting a bid on a home, only to find out multiple contracts for the purchase were parked in front of theirs. The median sale price of a home also has slipped from an average of $195,000 in 2007 to $175,000 so far this year, according to the Greater Augusta Association of Realtors. A main stumbling block to increased home sales, according to Miller, is the public’s confidence, or lack thereof, in job security. ‘That has to be the only reason that the floodgates haven’t opened,’ he said.”
“Staunton home inspector Bronson Anderson, of Inspector Home Inc., agreed that business has slowed. ‘This time two years ago was completely crazy in real estate,’ he said.”
The Knoxville News Sentinel from Tennessee. “An East Tennessee waterfront project backed by a prominent Knoxville-area development firm is at a standstill after getting caught up in a Cleveland, Tenn., businessman’s financial turmoil. Located on the shores of Chickamauga Lake, near Dayton, Tenn., Rarity Rivers is one of several luxury residential projects across East Tennessee that was developed by Maryville-based Rarity Communities.”
“In January, GreenBank filed a motion seeking relief from an automatic stay in the case, saying it must give Steve McKenzie, a Cleveland businessman, notice of a foreclosure sale since he is a guarantor of the original $15 million loan. The bank estimated that the liquidation value of the nearly 400 acres owned by Chickamauga Shores is just more than $7 million, and that the liquidation value of approximately 200 acres owned by Hiawassee is $10.2 million.”
“A bank filing said only four lots had been sold, and none since August. Mike Ross, the head of Rarity Communities, said last week that once GreenBank has foreclosed on the Chickamauga Shores portion of the property, the land would be available for sale to a third party so the project can continue.”
“Ross confirmed that only four lots have been sold, but said his firm isn’t planning to walk away from Rarity Rivers. Noting that the economy has slowed down development, Ross said that ‘it will probably be a little while before things get started back’ at Rarity Rivers.”
The Atlanta Journal Constitution in Georgia. “The results of the tax revolution — started by owners who feel their property values have fallen during the foreclosure crisis — becomes clear this month as assessors begin setting values for 2009. Gwinnett has already mailed out 68,000 notices and plans to send another 11,000 next week. Assessors in Cobb, Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton will follow with their own notices over the next few weeks as they settle on how much taxable values will drop due to what experts are calling a real estate depression.”
“‘We’ve seen not so much any one area that’s been hit harder than the others,’ said Rodney McDaniel, chief appraiser for Clayton. ‘It’s been pretty widespread. It’s all over the county.’”
“In Gwinnett, where notices have already been sent, chief appraiser Steve Pruitt says he’s been surprised by the reaction. He expected many folks to complain Gwinnett didn’t lower values enough. Instead, many have called in to complain values went down at all.”
“‘I guess it’s the realization of the loss of value,’ Pruitt said.”
The Orlando Sentinel in Florida. “The number of residential properties listed for purchase through the Orlando Realtors’ MLS, which covers mainly Orange and Seminole counties, peaked in late 2007 at more than 26,000. Last month, the local inventory stood at 21,448 homes, down by 720 from February and 15.8 percent lower than in March 2008. The last time the inventory was lower: January 2007.”
“Combined with the improvement in monthly sales, that means the inventory, as measured by ‘months of supply,’ is shrinking even faster: It fell from 16.77 months in February to 12.98 months in March — far below its peak of 31.64 in January 2008 and the lowest it has been since December 2006.”
“For the first time, the Orlando Regional Realtor Association examined ‘distress sales’ in detail and found that 49 percent of the homes sold by its members last month were either owned by banks already or had been sold under financial pressure of some kind. Bank-owned homes — those already through foreclosure — sold for a median price of $95,000.”
“Homes for which lenders had agreed to take less than the amount owed on the mortgage — known as pre-foreclosure or ’short’ sales — sold for a median of $143,500. Homes marketed by owners not under financial duress sold for a median of $174,995.”
“Jeffri Moore and her husband, Alex, are among a growing number of local house hunters trying to snap up properties for deep discounts of 50 percent or more — sometimes, substantially more. For example, the east Orange County couple just submitted an offer for a condo unit in a former apartment complex near their home that was listed through a discount brokerage for $21,500. It had once been appraised for $131,000.”
“‘It does need some work,’ Jeffri Moore said.”
“The March median sale price of $137,000 in the Orlando Realtors’ core market is the lowest for that measure since January 2003. ‘Orlando home buyers are getting back into the market and taking advantage of improved affordability,’ Les Simmonds, president of the Orlando Realtors group, said in Monday’s report.”
WINK News from Florida. “Southwest Florida real estate is selling at record rates. While the trends are good for the region, one of the reasons why is not - if you’re a seller. Bank owned and short sale properties are influencing prices. ‘To sellers, be aware of what’s in your neighborhood,’ said Realtor Toni Schoemaker. ‘Don’t get greedy, get real.’”
“Experts say interested buyers should act quickly. ‘If you find the property you like write the contract, because it doesn’t matter what the market is,’ said Schoemaker. ‘The good ones sell right away so if you find something you love write the contract. And don’t think on a short sale or foreclosure you can go in and write it at 50-percent of the list price. That is not going to happen. These properties are getting full price or close to full price offers.’”
“Many buyers are investors, leading some to worry about the potential for another disastrous housing bubble. Will history repeat itself? ‘In my opinion no. There are some investors who are out buying those Cape Coral and Lehigh distressed properties. They want to use them as rentals,’ explains Schoemaker.”
The Herald Tribune in Florida. “The city is sitting on $838,000 in unpaid water and sewer bills from residents who, in many cases, have skipped town or lost their homes to bank foreclosure. In an effort to recover some of the money, North Port will soon begin putting liens on property owned by people who have not paid their utility bill in 120 days. In the case of Armando and Anneli Cristiani, a tenant in their North Port home ran up utility bills of more than $550 and then skipped town. Because the Cristianis were the primary holders of the utility account, the Sarasota couple is left to either pay the tab or let the home go without water.”
“They say that North Port refused to shut off the utility service in a timely fashion as they watched the bills grow. North Port says the couple never asked to stop the service. The bill will likely have to be paid before the house can be rented again. ‘This is unjust to all North Port homeowners that have a rental. Not fair at all,’ wrote Anneli Cristiani in an e-mail to the Herald-Tribune.”
The Naples News in Florida. “Lee County homeowners could see their property values diminish by 30 percent from last year’s appraisals, a decrease that may lead the state, county appraiser Ken Wilkinson predicted in a town hall meeting in Bonita Springs. ‘I’m talking about market value,’ Wilkinson said. ‘If you wrote one check, bought the whole county, from last year to this I think it could be a 30 percent decrease.’”
“Wilkinson said housing gluts in Cape Coral and Lehigh Acres, where many homes now sit in foreclosure, inform his prediction that Lee will lead the state.”
“‘If you think of it, Cape Coral is the second largest incorporated land mass in the state of Florida…In Lehigh, you’re talking about 68,000 acres that were subdivided into quarter and half acre lots and sold off all over the world. So there’s a lot of property in those two places, and they’ve seemed to have set the model for going up, and the one coming down,’ he said.”
“Bonita Springs resident Tom Gibbons, 69, attended the town hall meeting. A retiree from New York, Gibbons said he’s seen the value of his home, in the Village Walk community, decline considerably since his purchase four years ago. From a taxpayer perspective, the decrease offers some relief, he said. Yet it still translates to a diminished investment.”
“‘Definitely it’s a scary thing to watch the value of your house go down,’ he said. ‘Basically there’s nothing you can do with it.’”
The Palm Beach Post in Florida. “Thirty buyers who signed contracts for units at the Peninsula Boynton Beach condo will get back a combined $1.5 million under a class action suit settled last week. Coral Springs attorney Scott Gelfand says the settlement calls for developer Waterbrook Peninsula LLC of Deerfield Beach to return 80 percent of buyers’ 10 percent deposits, which were held in escrow. Buyers will get between $37,800 and $65,500 each, he says.”
“Most buyers put down 20 percent, Gelfand says.”
“Units at Peninsula Boynton Beach were priced at $400,000 to $800,000. A description of the 70-unit project on the Boynton Beach Community Redevelopment Agency’s site uses breathless terms: ‘Boynton Beach’s new residential opportunity will wrap you in luxury living and spectacular intracoastal [sic] views, but only if you hurry.’”
The Daily Business Review in Florida. “Ebenezer Boakyee’s condo board should be collecting nearly $11,000 in maintenance fees every month. Instead, it barely banks $3,000 because many of the units are owned by investors who have stopped paying their association fees.”
“Because of the short-fall, Opa-locka’s The Oaks at Miami Gardens condo association is struggling to survive even as absentee unit owners collect rent from tenants. ‘It has been a rough ride for the association in the last year and a half,’ said Boakyee.”
“Built in 2005, The Oaks is the product of a housing boom gone bust. Investors bought about 95 percent of the 61 units, said Boakyee, who owns two condos that he rents out. Now, almost half the condos are facing foreclosure either by lenders or the association, according to Miami-Dade County property records.”
“In a final bid to get some money out of their property, owners often quit paying condo fees when they face lender foreclosure, even if they have a tenant in place. By seeking the appointment of a receiver, the association hopes to collect maintenance fees for as long as a tenant lives in the unit facing foreclosure by the association, Boakyee said.”
“Yet, it‘s unclear how successful a receiver can be collecting from tenants, said attorney Karl Klein, of Miami’s Klein Law Group. Klein does not work for The Oaks but helps other condominium associations who are having trouble collecting maintenance fees. ‘There is a high likelihood the tenant may move out,’ he said. ‘A lot of tenants, when they find out that there are legal proceedings going on regarding their units, they become uncomfortable and want to leave.’”
“Some community association advocates aren’t sure that negotiating with delinquent owners is a good idea. They urge associations to foreclose the units and take title as quickly as possible. That way, the association would own the condo and could continue to rent it out until the unit’s lender forecloses on it, said Donna Berger, executive director of the Community Advocacy Network.”
“Owners who stopped paying their condo dues have most likely stopped paying their mortgages, too. They know they will lose the condo and may not care what type of tenant they put in their units, she said. If the association takes title to the unit, it will have more control over who becomes their new neighbor. ‘If you don’t have control, you can’t control the maintenance of it and can’t secure the property.’”
The Times Daily in Alabama. “U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby criticized the Federal Reserve System on Monday for its role in the nation’s economic woes. Speaking at a Shoals Chamber of Commerce luncheon, Shelby, a Republican from Tuscaloosa, also expressed concern about the United States’ mounting debt.”
“‘We are at $12.5 trillion as a debtor nation,’ he said. ‘We’ll probably add seven to eight trillion more in the next several years. That doesn’t bode well for our future. The Federal Reserve is printing money like I’ve never seen.’”
“Shelby, the ranking member of the U.S. Senate’s Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, said printing more money won’t solve the crisis. ‘They’re in unchartered waters,’ said Shelby, who served on the banking committee for 23 years. ‘They’ve printed too much money.’”
“Loaning institutions have gotten in trouble to the point where they rely on federal bailouts. Shelby points out that Federal Reserve officials are the regulators of the holding companies. ‘They were basically letting the banks regulate themselves,’ he said.”
“Shelby was asked about the Community Reinvestment Act. The 1977 federal law encourages lending institutions to provide loans in all neighborhoods, including low- and moderate-income areas. ‘Bank loans should be based on ability to repay the loan, not on some social experiment,’ Shelby responded.”
“Shelby blamed banking problems that arose during his tenure on the committee to former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, who told him everything was OK. ‘I used to be in awe of the Federal Reserve,’ he said. The senator said that perspective has changed.”
‘Shelby, the ranking member of the U.S. Senate’s Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, said printing more money won’t solve the crisis. Shelby…served on the banking committee for 23 years…Shelby blamed banking problems that arose during his tenure on the committee to former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, who told him everything was OK. ‘I used to be in awe of the Federal Reserve,’ he said.’
This is what I’ve been talking about. This is a senator who should be run out on a rail. 23 years, and he doesn’t think for himself, but listens to AG?
And let me bring up this; what was Greenspan famous for during his 18 years? SAYING NOTHING, at congressional hearings. And the media patted him on the head for it.
A connect the dots thing for you reporters out there; Shelby was in charge of reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac back when there was more momentum to do so than at any other time, 2005. He completely dropped the ball. And when he was given a petition asking that congress explicitly renounce the GSE debt, he simply brushed it aside.
And now he is worried about the trillions?
It was about this time that Fannies accounting scandal turned up over 900 off-shore special purpose entities. What ever happened to those, congress/media? And surprise, surprise, guess who had an accounting scandal that also revealed a bunch of SPE’s in the Caymans, etc, at about the same time?
AIG.
The pots are calling the kettle black allright. Just like Dodd and Frank.
When the bank regulators wanted to limit regional and community bank exposure to real estate development and Congress squashed them, what was his view?
And as a Republican, didn’t he believe that deficits don’t matter because public services are unneccesary — until about three months ago?
Shelby has a mindset that could work in financial regulation, but fail’s at the breach. He says the right things here and there, but when it comes down to doing something, he goes the opposite way. As I said in that video yesterday, we can’t keep looking to the people who got us in this mess to make the needed changes to the system.
That’s for you voters in Alabama, BTW.
Sad to say, Ben, but the voters in Alabama will do what voters in the rest of America will do: piss and moan, but then pull the lever for business as usual. And wonder why we’re going to hell in a handbasket.
‘Shelby, the ranking member of the U.S. Senate’s Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, said printing more money won’t solve the crisis. Shelby…served on the banking committee for 23 years…Shelby blamed banking problems that arose during his tenure on the committee to former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, who told him everything was OK. ‘I used to be in awe of the Federal Reserve,’ he said.’
What’s this? Shelby is contradicting the Prez. Barry just said in his speech today that “all” economists agree, on both the left and the right that the worst thing the government could do now, would be to decrease or stop spending.
Like they ever have or would.
My memory of Greenspan first was formed in the late 1990s, when his “maestro” persona took flight and the hagiographies began. Every word the man said was parsed by both experts and amateurs to an absurd degree, and he knew it, so his public pronoucements acquired the air of a performance.
Alan Greenspan discribed himself as a lifetime libertarian Republican on several occassions. Shelby knew this and so did ALL the rest Washington and especially the republicans.
You reap What you Sow America.
Testify, Brother Mikey. Americans have yet the make the obvious connection between voting for Bozos and getting corrupt, incompetent governance.
Thus spake Greenspan, renown for obtuse phrases that pundits lapped up with cultish reverence as they parsed out every solemn word. He and Jack Welsh were the powder puff boys.
Senator Shelby was the *only* Republican to oppose the repeal of Glass Steagall and the passage of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. He was one of only 10 congress members to oppose these changes.
I may not agree with much he does, but he needs to get props for what he did right.
I’m not saying he doesn’t do the right thing at times, and he has given this blog some of the best quotes ever. He says what he thinks about topics most in DC won’t touch.
But as I said above, he was in charge of the committee that was supposed to reform the GSEs in 2005. They did nothing.
Now, I ask you, had we shaken up the GSEs mid-2005, don’t you suppose it would have changed the outcome of the housing bubble a good deal? And shouldn’t he have championed that petition to get the GSEs off the taxpayers back? That wouldn’t have cost one single penny. Congress could have just passed a simple vote telling Wall Street to forget it. Instead, it was left up to Moodys, Fitch, and S&P.
And we all know how that turned out.
BTW, if anyone is interested, I chronicled all of this in the spring of 2005 on my original HBB, to be found in the sidebar.
Well, he didn’t want to take away the punch bowl either, Ben. Nobody wanted to be the “party pooper”.
Testify, Ben. Too many of the sheeple latch onto nice-sounding soundbites from their favorite Hollow Man politicians, and forget to hold them accountable for their roles in creating the mess that’s playing out.
It’s hard to fathom that he could be smart enough to see the problems with Glass Steagle and brave enough to vote against his own party, but then caved to Fannie and Freddie interests and Greenspan.
Let’s take a look just through May 2005:
It’s hard to tell if Sen. Richard Shelby is playing hardball or setting us up to get nothing out of congress on the GSE’s. “‘I will not support a bill that does not establish a regulatory structure with capital authority and enforcement powers that are needed to ensure the safe and sound operations of the GSEs,’ the Senator said.
It is amazing how calmly the size of the problem is discussed. “Shelby also said he won’t back legislation that doesn’t give the regulator the ability to reorganize either company in the event of a financial meltdown.” If Fannie or Freddie “meltdown”, the world would likely go into depression!
Shelby also sees the insurance link. “His committee will continue to scrutinize the recently hard-hit insurance industry. ‘I believe that we must closely consider the present regulatory regime to determine whether it is adequate to address current intricacies’ of the insurance market. Many large financial institutions hold significant chunks of the $1.8 trillion in debt issued by Fannie and Freddie, so Snow and Greenspan have warned a crisis at either company could hurt markets.”
Legislation to be debated Wednesday to overhaul regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac has been changed to allow the mortgage giants to buy higher-cost loans in pricey markets.”
“It would also allow Fannie and Freddie to increase the percentage of the secondary mortgage market that they serve, challenging competitors who now operate in the so-called nonconforming market.”
‘This blog has criticized the supposed ‘independent’ Federal Reserve for it’s failure to take away the punch-bowl. But there is no question the elected representatives have failed us miserably as well. How can they ratchet up the borrowing at a time like this?’
“Some lawmakers are reluctant to curb the holdings because they create liquidity in the mortgage market. ‘The last thing any lawmaker wants to be accused of is killing the goose that laid the golden egg in our housing market,’” said Jaret Seiberg.
Not everyone is worried about risky loans being made to marginal borrowers. Congress is trying to figure out how to get even more people on the gallows, er, ladder. “For some first-time home buyers, it is a tougher hurdle than coming up with the down payment. These buyers are what lenders call ‘unscoreables,’ or they have such ‘thin’ credit files, their credit scores are abysmally low.”
“Congress took up this issue for the first time May 12, when a House committee conducted a hearing on ways to identify and use alternative data that might help gauge underserved consumers’ creditworthiness. Rep. Michael Castle estimated that ‘35 million to 50 million people’ in this country ‘may not have a full credit reporting history’, or they may have none at all. Yet large numbers of those consumers pay their bills on time and should be treated as solid credit candidates.”
‘After explaining several methods of finding credit history where it doesn’t exist, the writer concludes, “Tools are available. Those who truly want to provide home loans to credit-worthy borrowers need only give them a try.”
Finite reinsurance is a term anyone concerned about the housing bubble should become familiar with. All those mortgage backed securities have guarantors and they like to spread the risk with reinsurance. The problem is they are complicated to account for and more than one firm is in trouble.
Example, AIG and the former power suit of them all, Hank Greenberg. “The Federal Bureau of Investigation has become the latest regulatory agency looking into the potential abuse of so-called finite or non-traditional reinsurance - the products at the center of AIG’s accounting troubles.”
“The giant insurer also said Sunday that some of its controls over financial reporting weren’t up to scratch. One problem was ‘the ability of certain former members of senior management to circumvent internal controls,’ AIG said.”
As MarketWatch documents, it’s all out in the open now. “Lenders are facing increasing competitive pressures, and the need to maintain and increase loan volumes may be driving the push to looser standards. ‘The structure of the loans has really changed. What you’re doing is leaving a lot more risk on that borrower,’ said Brown, of the FDIC.”
“Mortgage lenders kind of get caught in the middle saying, ‘Well, you want us to push homeownership, so we’re trying to create products that will help some more people to get into the house, but on the other hand you’re really going to nail us when some of those people go delinquent and go into foreclosure, so what do you want us to do?’” MBA economist Doug Duncan said.
Coast Capital Savings has a come-on that should make any lender blush. “Coast Capital Savings No Worry Mortgages™ now make it easier than ever to become a homeowner. We’ve relaxed our lending guidelines to the point where just about anyone qualifies.”
“There are all kinds of tiny credit blemishes, like a forgotten parking ticket that can make you hideously unattractive to other lending institutions. But we’re not that picky. Even from here we can say you look good to us. Honestly, we barely say no to anyone.”
As expected, the appraisal industry is warning congress today. “Faulty appraisals are still dictated by interested parties, the schoolyard bullies of real estate. It’s common knowledge that if an appraiser doesn’t play the game and ‘come in’ at whatever value is needed to close the deal, the bullies will take his lunch money. And he had better not tattle.’ said Alan E. Hummel, SRA.
“The public..needs to be more aware of the menace of mortgage fraud to their home purchases, the largest investments of their lives. Sadly, all Americans pay the price for this miserable performance, bearing the cost of investigations and financial failures.”
Oh my word. The lying, thieving majority running this country in 2005 are actually getting kicked around on this blog as the majorly responsible thugs for the bubble? Thats my kind of progress.
I would say this was amazingly precient on your part, Ben. Then again, it should have been blindingly clear to anyone with one functioning brain synapse how lawmakers were cravenly abdicating their responsibilities to their constituents and the public interests, and turning a blind eye to the insane policies of the Fed and the other villains of the piece.
State and local sales-tax revenue fell more sharply in the fourth quarter of 2008 than at any time in the past half century, and has continued to erode through the beginning of 2009, according to a report released Tuesday.
Governator: oh oh…..now my #as is really grass!
A main stumbling block to increased home sales, according to Miller, is the public’s confidence, or lack thereof, in job security. ‘That has to be the only reason that the floodgates haven’t opened,’ he said.”
Its confidence eh?
Not affordability?
Debt to income?
Or the fact that 75% of the population cannot qualify for a traditional mortgage?!?
The property ladder is broken. Exactly who out there can upgrade? Not the normal fraction…
Got Popcorn?
Neil
The ‘confidence’ issue kills me. It seems to me to be a simpler problem than human psychology. My view as a scientist who knows next to nothing about economics: Debt is spending tomorrow’s earnings today. The past decade or more has seen debt accumulate to a number that is somewhat greater than the future earnings to service that debt, because the lending projections were based on perceived endless growth. So basically, the money that was created through debt had to be validated by actual wages, production, etc to payback what was owed. Now we find that our current $$ is already spent and for that matter our future $$ is largely spoken for and the only reason banks wont lend is a lack of confidence? It seems like the larger problem is a lack of money. Is this on point? If so, how in the hell can every single talking head not get it when it is their job to do just that?
At $21,500 for a condo who needs a traditional mortgage?
You can put that on your credit card.
The article says they paid cash. But this is one issue; who wants to buy into the crap-shoot that is the Florida condo conversion market? If I was buying all the units and it had an immediate healthy cash flow as apartments, maybe. But one could get swallowed up in larger problems very quickly.
The condo conversions scare me… They’re in buildings/neighborhoods of dubious reputation.
I like the idea of buying the whole building…
But who out there, with $21,500 ready, isn’t either:
1. waiting to buy their primary residence or more likely
2. Already over-invested in real estate?
I know of people *screaming* that I should be buying now. Guess what they all have in common? 5+ properties with large mortgages. Hmmmm…
We’ll hit bottom. But not in 2009. Certainly not in Florida or California. Heck, for both of them, I scoff at any prediction before February of 2011.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
3. Looking for a place to put the Mother-in-Law?
+100 (ok, + a dozen or so that I’ve seen)
I’ve been to some of these buildings.
The elevators don’t work, run down feel to it….
The ones that I saw had similar prices, were not bargains and dicey “investments” at best.
Yep. Like when the others in the complex stop paying and you get hit with the bill.
Larger problems being: Missing plumbing and wiring, missing appliances and fixtures, sinking and cracked foundations, other vandalism, unpaid utilities, unpaid HOA fees, etc. etc….
OT: How can you guys not like Obama? Is this not what we all say every day on this blog?
President Barack Obama acknowledged in a major economic speech Tuesday that “times are still tough” and warned that a culture of “instant gratification” had produced neglect of major national problems that wound up undermining the economy.
“By no means are we out of the woods just yet,” the president said in remarks at Georgetown University. “But from where we stand, for the very first time, we are beginning to see glimmers of hope. And beyond that, way off in the distance, we can see a vision of an America’s future that is far different than our troubled economic past.
Obama contended that the nation’s “day of reckoning” on the economy was caused partly by “a fundamental weakness in our political system.”
“For too long, too many in Washington put off hard decisions for some other time on some other day,” he said. “There’s been a tendency to score political points instead of rolling up sleeves to solve real problems. There is also an impatience that characterizes this town — an attention span that has only grown shorter with the 24 news cycle and insists on instant gratification in the form of instant results or higher poll numbers. When a crisis hits, there’s all too often a lurch from shock to trance, with everyone responding to the tempest of the moment until the furor has died away and the media coverage has moved on, instead of confronting the major challenges that will shape our future in a sustained and focused way.”
“We must build our house upon a rock,” he said. “We must lay a new foundation for growth and prosperity — a foundation that will move us from an era of borrow and spend to one where we save and invest; where we consume less at home and send more exports abroad.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090414/pl_politico/21231
I am asking you to step back from your entrenched political beliefs and your political cynicism for a moment and ponder the words he spoke. Obama not only shows that he gets it, but he shows a depth to his thinking that far exceeds anything we’ve seen in a long time.
How can anyone not like Obama? He is as close to one of us as we are going to get. Try and imagine Chimp ever saying anything like this?
Wow.
This is from the same Prez who said we are not going to appoint any more Lobyist in our current Administrations positions. Then the next day say’s well I didn’t mean it yet, just a couple more today. As a matter of fact were now going to appoint the former chief Lobyist for Goldman Sachs as the number 2 in the Treasury Department.
Bush was a Bank Croney and should be strung up.
But declareing Obama as one of us?? Yikes as he got your number.
We need a 3rd party.
He will make mistakes, and sometimes the reality of the situation makes compromise inevitable. But I really believe Obama is acting in the best interest of the people, and not some fat cat lobbyists. He has also pushed through very tight rules for lobbyists, which you failed to mention.
He fundamentally changes the way the White House deals with lobbyists, cuts the bankers off in mid sentence when they are trying to justify big bonuses, and all you can say is he has one or two people that worked for a lobbyist at one time.
So he lied. Give it a rest. It is total bullshit.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
That is some class A-1 trolling. I almost thought you were serious, but you gave up the game and overplayed it.
Nice try!
bananarepublic is a well-known Obama troll. It’s kind of fun to bait him along sometimes, the way a fish will nibble and nibble but never really take the hook - just frustrating the fisherman.
Cmon….He may sound like he gets it but the policies put in place over the last few weeks by Geitner are identical to the ones Paulson wanted to put in place. Actions speak louder than words and he is allowing Congress, the FED and Treasury to take the same steps as the Republicans were. They are spending incredible amounts of taxpayers money bailing out the banks.
More of the same, in my view.
“It is simply not sustainable to have a 21st-century financial system that is governed by 20th-century rules and regulations that allowed the recklessness of a few to threaten the entire economy. It is not sustainable to have an economy where in one year, 40 percent of our corporate profits came from a financial sector that was based too much on inflated home prices, maxed-out credit cards, overleveraged banks and overvalued assets; or an economy where the incomes of the top 1 percent have skyrocketed while the typical working household has seen their income decline by nearly $2,000.
“For as some were chasing ever-bigger bonuses and short-term profits over the last decade, we continued to neglect the long-term threats to our prosperity: the crushing burden that the rising cost of health care is placing on families and businesses; the failure of our education system to prepare our workers for a new age; the progress that other nations are making on clean energy industries and technologies while we remain addicted to foreign oil; the growing debt that we’re passing on to our children. And even after we emerge from the current recession, these challenges will still represent major obstacles that stand in the way of our success in the 21st century.
“There is a parable at the end of the Sermon on the Mount that tells the story of two men. The first built his house on a pile of sand, and it was destroyed as soon as the storm hit. But the second is known as the wise man, for when ‘…the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house…it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.’
“We cannot rebuild this economy on the same pile of sand. We must build our house upon a rock. We must lay a new foundation for growth and prosperity — a foundation that will move us from an era of borrow and spend to one where we save and invest; where we consume less at home and send more exports abroad.
“It is simply not sustainable to have a 21st-century financial system that is governed by 20th-century rules and regulations that allowed the recklessness of a few to threaten the entire economy.”
Geez, if the system had only been “governed” to begin with! What was wrong with Glass-Steagall? That was about as 20th century as you could get, except Gramm got rid of it.
It’s similar to the illegal immigration issue. “Reform” doesn’t do a darned bit of good unless there is enforcement.
BTW, I saw “The Man Who Would Be King” last night. I highly recommend it. Awesome flick. A real classic that has some serious legs.
The Man Who Would Be King is my absolute favorite movie. Absolutely brilliant.
Is that you Barry Hussein?
+100
thank you. hopefully bananaman will scoot on back to Dailykos.
and you can scoot on back to ditto-head land.
“a foundation that will move us from an era of borrow and spend to one where we save and invest”
You may be able to reconcile this with the Obama budget that beggars our children and grandchildren for decades to come, in order to avoid making any hard choices today.
But I can’t.
Our children and grandchildren were beggared long before this budget. And we haven’t made any hard economic choices since 1980, when avoiding such choices and not paying for things became our national culture.
True,
But what is going on now is, to use an investment term a “Blow Off Top”.
Well put. “blow off top” indeed.
Spewing everywhere - with working peoples’ money entrusted to government for judicious use.
This thing keeps going. Regan spent a lot, so Clinton gets to spend even more, Clinton spent a lot so Bush Jr, gets to spend even more. Bush spends a lot so Obama gets to spend even more.
Eventually somebody needs to step up to the plate and get this ship in order.
Spending decades of treasury revenue in a futile attempt to “fix” housing and the general economy. How many regulars at HBB are on board for that?
Lamenting budget deficits, and then setting out to eclipse them. Give me a break.
And BTW, silly name-calling in reference to President George W Bush is pretty pathetic.
As is the name calling of Barack Hussein Obama is pretty pathetic.
SFBAG: what planet are you from? (OK, San Francisco. Question answered)
Highlighting the fact of Obama’s middle name, however used and with whatever intent, is even remotely comparable to calling GWB a “chimp”? One of our regular posters–one located on the Peninsula and with whom I suspect you share political views–even referred to him as the “caucasian chimp” at one point.
When do you suppose that anyone on this board, much less the MSM, will condone referring to Barry as a “chimp” (much less as a “negroid chimp”?)
Let’s face it: GWB was subjected to an extraordinary campaign of highly personal vilification. No insult, no vile words, were considered beyond application to him. Incidentally, knowing that someone will raise a straw man: it has nothing to do with defending his policies.
So, we have an awfully long way before Barack Hussein Obama is subjected to anything remotely comparable to what George W. Bush was subjected to.
(sorry if double post)
SFBAG: what planet are you from? (OK, San Francisco. Question answered)
Highlighting the fact of Obama’s middle name, however used and with whatever intent, is even remotely comparable to calling GWB a “chimp”? One of our regular posters–one located on the Peninsula and with whom I suspect you share political views–even referred to him as the “caucasian chimp” at one point.
When do you suppose that anyone on this board, much less the MSM, will condone referring to Barry as a “chimp” (much less as a “negroid chimp”?)
Let’s face it: GWB was subjected to an extraordinary campaign of highly personal vilification. No insult, no vile words, were considered beyond application to him. Incidentally, knowing that someone will raise a straw man: it has nothing to do with defending his policies.
So, we have an awfully long way before Barack Hussein Obama is subjected to anything remotely comparable to what George W. Bush was subjected to.
Except mentioning Obama’s middle name is only done to stir up the vilest anti-Muslim, America-for-white-folks sentiments, and Bush does look like a chimp, brain acuity notwithstanding. If you’re not calling Bush “George Walker Bush” then you shouldn’t call Obama “Barack Hussein Obama.” Besides, Bush does use his middle initial, whereas Obama doesn’t. It’s George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan–just use their usual names, or just their last names (adding Sr. or Jr. when necessary to disambiguate), and stop being all high and mighty and highlighting the president’s exotic middle name pretending it doesn’t rub you the wrong way to have a cosmopolitan black president, because frankly you’re not fooling anybody.
Wasn’t Herbert Walker a brand of scotch?? -
L. Opine: that was a silly, defensive response, which reinforces strongly my point: that there is a double standard applied to GWB and BO.
RE: is a double standard applied to GWB
Winedude-The left’s repeated hysterical references to Adolph Hitler in various frames of context relative to their “W.” animosities pretty much establishes the intellectual bankruptcy of their respective group think.
Like the gaggle of flies always around a horse’s rump.
PITA and always buzzing.
I’ll just stop commenting on anything remotely political here, because it’s obvious a lot of the right-wingers feel that thinking critically is like taxes–the less the better.
“Experts say interested buyers should act quickly. ‘If you find the property you like write the contract, because it doesn’t matter what the market is,’ said Schoemaker. ‘The good ones sell right away so if you find something you love write the contract. And don’t think on a short sale or foreclosure you can go in and write it at 50-percent of the list price. That is not going to happen. These properties are getting full price or close to full price offers.’”
I am sorry is the above quote from 2005 or 2009? Because I just got Deja Vue all over again.
Well, if the “list” price is 60%+ off the peak price he might be right. 50% off list is one thing. 50% off peak prices is a fair offer, IMO.
…COULD be a fair offer…
From the original post:
“Jeffri Moore and her husband, Alex, are among a growing number of local house hunters trying to snap up properties for deep discounts of 50 percent or more — sometimes, substantially more. For example, the east Orange County couple just submitted an offer for a condo unit in a former apartment complex near their home that was listed through a discount brokerage for $21,500. It had once been appraised for $131,000.”
Uh-oh. There’s that “snap up” expression again.
“‘It does need some work,’ Jeffri Moore said.”
I can’t help thinking that Jeffri and Alex will be doing quite a bit of snapping at each other in the months to come. Especially when they realize that “some work” really means “quite a bit of work.”
Especially when they realize that “some work” really means “quite a bit of work.”
…which means total gut renovations…and then the foundation collapses into a sink hole
Show and go!
Property has been boarded.
Take a flashlight.
What is it with you guys and the haiku stuff lately????
Blano… it ain’t haiku. Those are lines from RE ads I peruse.
Sounds like clipped speech, though.
Think of the cold north woods. Minnesota, Michigan maybe.
God I hate that phrase “snap up”.
Someone here sugessted to use scoop up instead. It is much more appropriet IMO.
My call (spoof) to a local overpriced POS condo sales office in FL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuJ0_5Rk5V4
haha funny!
Press, did you really do that!??!! You have missed your calling. You are outstandingly hilarious!
I went to see a house Sunday.
While I was there, 2 couples passed by to see it.
All in the space of 15 minutes.
Listings are moving fast from MLS.
Prices continue to slide.
You’d have to be insane to buy a condo right now; however, the above is true and don’t be surprised if sales numbers are heralded as a “recovery.”
I think there will be knife-catching all the way to the bottom.
Buddy of mine spoke with two residents of Sun City Center (nice 55+ community) over the weekend. Both would sell their houses for what they paid, except what they paid is more than they’re worth. One can’t sell his place up North and would rather keep it and sell the Fla residence, the other bought and found out the community wasn’t for him and his wife. Which is another darned good reason to rent before buying.
Some neighborhoods in South East Florida may be at bottom Palmy.
Different dynamics.
Posted on it yesterday.
When taxes are 7K-9K + upkeep + insurance —> and the property itself costs 250-300K, then a 20% further decrease is not important.
You either buy or not.
Because at 5%, 50K is about $230.
It’s somewhat heretical to say this here, but true.
__
(now condos, that’s different… bottom? —-> FPPS imitation—-> HA, ha, ha, HA, Ha….)
I can picture the golf carts now.
I still see plenty of empty houses and condos in Tampa, and there are fewer jobs all the time. My wife and I saw a movie at Channelside last weekend and there were maybe ten lighted units at Channelside Towers. And I was walking my dog the other day when I came upon a larger house with obvious non-native flora planted in front. Weeds were everywhere, a lawn ornament was broken, and a basketball backboard was cracked, so I drew closer and peeked over the wall to the house’s patio, where I was greeted by the sight of a trash-strewn green pool.
What strikes me is this: if the bubble cannibalized future demand, what does anyone think government-induced low mortgage rates and tax credits are doing? Will anyone acknowledge what’s going to happen to prices when those measures end?
I’ve been discouraged lately. Again, I do not see enough people making decisions on a reality basis, and I see almost no one in a leadership position encouraging people to make decisions on a reality basis. I’ve been bubble-sitting since 2004 and I’m sick of it, although I concede that my reward has been freedom, beyond the typical American freedom of choosing what brand of mustard to buy or what cable channel to watch while sitting passively mired in debt slavery.
“freedom of choosing what brand of mustard to buy”
Mustard-lover!
About your last paragraph, snake - hang in there! We all knew, or at least should have known, that the PTB would fight the correction tooth and nail and this would be a protracted event.
Keep fighting the good fight. And it was Noam Chomsky who said something to the effect that the last vestige of democracy that many people enjoy is their choice of consumer goods.
You don’t need to sneak around a night to see
the houses. One white shirt, one hard hat, one
clip board and a tape on your belt and no one
will even question you or what you’re doing.
Oh, boy, I’ve got all of that gear! And a tool belt too! Guess I can start a second career as a vacant house spy!
OT. Just found out about my cocky sil who owns a few properties in lv. she’s living in one of those properties but she’s short selling one of the four. original purch price was 498K, but cash out refin to 650K in 2006. Now she’s short selling at 370K. she also has her own biz on the side. Let’s assume the bank is willing to accept the curren short sale price, will the bank send her a 1099 for the difference? can her bank force her to liquidate other properties?
tia
“What strikes me is this: if the bubble cannibalized future demand, what does anyone think government-induced low mortgage rates and tax credits are doing? Will anyone acknowledge what’s going to happen to prices when those measures end?”
What’s going to happen to prices when the gov’t stops “subsidizing” 4% mortgage rates, and the going market rate hits 6%, 7%, 8%, etc for a home loan. With the printing presses running 24/7, I have to believe we’ll see interest rates move up in the next 1 or 2 years.
“From a taxpayer perspective, the decrease offers some relief, he said. Yet it still translates to a diminished investment.”
Investments - sometimes they go up sometimes they go down ya numskull.
Quit being such a crybaby. Betcha you were laughin’ at all the stoopid people who bought into the tech stock bubble. Or the Madoff investors. Did ya have any sympathy for them? Now ya want to be the guest of honor at the pity party.
Sorry, my sympathies are only reserved for cancer, tornado and bear attack victims - not someone dumb enough to sign a piece of paper.
Rant off.
“That lower growth rate could make it tough for some governments, including the city, government officials admit. ‘It’s not going to be steak and lobster anymore,’ said Debbie Linnig Michals, Lindauer’s spokeswoman, referring to government agencies that depend on property taxes. ‘It’s going to be beans and potatoes.’”
What the hell is wrong with public officials? Seriously, it’s that attitude that is making taxes skyrocket and introduces waste. The pigs at that trough need to cut back like the rest of us have.
Any one of these useless sloths that sees tax money as anything but beans and potatoes needs to have an attitude adjustment and a fat slap back into reality.
RBC Bank President Gordon Nixon - Salary $11.73 Million
$100,000 - MISTAKE (FISHERMEN’S LOAN)
I’m a commercial fisherman fighting the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC Bank) over a $100,000 loan mistake. I lost my home, fishing vessel and equipment. Help me fight this corporate bully by closing your RBC Bank account.
There was no monthly interest payment date or amount of interest payable per month on my loan agreement. Date of first installment payment (Principal + interest) is approximately 1 year from the signing of my contract.
Demand loan agreements signed by other fishermen around the same time disclosed monthly interest payment dates and interest amounts payable per month.The lending policy for fishermen did change at RBC from one payment (principal + interest) per year for fishing loans to principal paid yearly with interest paid monthly. This lending practice was in place when I approached RBC.
Only problem is the loans officer was a replacement who wasn’t familiar with these type of loans. She never informed me verbally or in writing about this new criteria.
Phone or e-mail:
RBC President, Gordon Nixon, Toronto (416)974-6415
RBC Vice President, Sales, Anne Lockie, Toronto (416)974-6821
RBC President, Atlantic Provinces, Greg Grice (902)421-8112 mail to:greg.grice@rbc.com
RBC Manager, Cape Breton/Eastern Nova Scotia, Jerry Rankin (902)567-8600
RBC Vice President, Atlantic Provinces, Brian Conway (902)491-4302 mail to:brian.conway@rbc.com
RBC Vice President, Halifax Region, Tammy Holland (902)421-8112 mail to:tammy.holland@rbc.com
RBC Senior Manager, Media & Public Relations, Beja Rodeck (416)974-5506 mail to:beja.rodeck@rbc.com
RBC Ombudsman, Wendy Knight, Toronto, Ontario 1-800-769-2542 mail to:ombudsman@rbc.com
Ombudsman for Banking Services & Investments, JoAnne Olafson, Toronto, 1-888-451-4519 mail to:ombudsman@obsi.ca
http://www.pfraser.blogspot.com
http://www.corporatebully.ca
http://www.youtube.com/CORPORATEBULLY
http://www.p2pnet.net/story/17877
“Fighting the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC Bank) one customer at a time”
You REALLY need to get a lawyer ASAP. If your situation is exactly like you say it is, then this is a simple case for a lawyer specializing in contract law. No amount of complaining to or about RBC will help you, but you do need to help yourself by getting a legal professional involved with the documentation and your story in hand. Call a legal referral service of the Bar association in your province if you don’t know of a contract law specialist.
Alabama is collapsing.
Opelika just lost a BF Goodrich tire plant and 1000 more people going jobless. Real estate has no bids in AL.
http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=10174900&nav=menu91_3
Interesting. Heard on NPRs Marketplace this afternoon that tire sales are booming right now since people are keeping their 3 year old cars, instead of trading them in for new, and are replacing their worn out tires. So, Goodrich may be using the sour economy, like IBM, to provide cover for their outsourcing plans.
A fella told me last night, regarding Florida condominiums, that once a bank repossesses a unit, the bank is responsible only for a max. of 6 month’s condo fees. So presumably if the bank sits on the foreclosed property for 18 months, a year’s worth of fees go “poof.”
And apparently Freddie Mac upped the minimum down payment on any condo loan to 25%. Got cash?