April 18, 2009

Bits Bucket For April 18, 2009

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227 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-18 07:20:46

OK, so we have yet another new server this morning. Testing, testing.

Comment by drumminj
2009-04-18 07:44:11

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? Has traffic been increasing?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-18 07:58:03

Well, I didn’t know it was going to happen, and this post won’t seem to appear, so the jury is out I suppose. Arggh.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-18 08:38:17

Can you hear me now?

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Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 08:46:18

no, but I read you loud and clear.

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2009-04-18 08:48:00

Loudly and clearly. :-)

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-04-18 08:54:25

You guys crack me up!

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 09:23:56

Present and accounted for Mr. Jones :)

 
Comment by waiting_in_la
2009-04-18 09:40:05

Be easy on her, and give her a good tip.

It’s her first day, after all.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Curt
2009-04-18 09:01:08

A new server?

Make mine 2 over easy with OJ and wheat toast.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 11:40:19

Wow…cool, although I will miss Ben’s old AZ Purple Haze mikey post gobbling server.

I say I will miss Ben’s ol….(does the Purple Haze fade out and disappears to wander forever in the cyberland mists)
;)

 
 
Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 09:01:28

quick somebody type something really ludicrus. I’ll start.

zerohedge has an Eric Sprott paper from aught five scribbed regarding PPT intervention. Corporate Credit spreads are still elevated, but are coming in. May four date set for stress test data set announcments. WFC brings in the saucy Q1 on wednesday. What else, oh yeah…quant box blowups with the Orwell rally continue though the remainder of earnings. Macke says two positions “cash and fetal.” Japan is not only buying down the curve, they are openly going to engage the equities.

based on the Madden reitrement Im shorting turducken,and beer is not just for breakfast anymore.

Comment by phillygal
2009-04-18 09:11:18

Sounds reasonable to me.

Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 09:22:14

did I mention Barry and Che-Chavez had cuban cigars and Puerto Rican Rum in backslapper of fiesta in Trinidad? Prepare form “Made in the Americas” or the familiar form “Realizados en la Américas”…

Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 18:20:02

go out to pick a few weeds, and its tear down a fence, go to the dump,run the fricken tiller,and build another raised bed, and go to the CO-OP for soil and brocolli starters….

real life is still happening…finally saw Slumdog Millionaire last night. A beautifully tragic love story.

few posts, but areally good thread today. I like to visit, you just dont want me to stay more than two days at a time.

FPSS: ORegano is a weed that is hard to kill 8:

इस बीच गोवा भारत में करी खाने पर

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Comment by cactus
2009-04-19 12:08:31

I have to pull weeds as well got a HOA notice, I guess the landlord has them sent directly to me now and in my name.

In phoenix the spring is about over and the dry summer is starting. this a period of dormancy for many native plants which will start growing again in the fall. My tomatos which whouldn’t stand a snow balls chance in hell here in Phoenix without daily water are doing OK. East side of the house right up next to the wall. Hope I don’t rot the wall with the constant water ? Oh whatever it flooded last moonson anyway due to poor drainage of the landscape.

 
 
 
Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 09:23:57

now I am off to my garden…I’ll be back later to check in on you guys, keep it clean and sustainable.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 09:31:23

On that note, my oregano plant died (already, you say? yes, says I.)

The rest are thriving so should I put this one thing down to bad luck or complete urban cluelessness?

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Comment by polly
2009-04-18 09:38:38

I think it died of sadness when it read about the earthquake in Italy. You really should put a filter on the news your plants can access on the internet.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 09:42:48

:lol:

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 09:46:25

My laughing out loud is in reference to Polly’s posting. Please understand I was not laughing at the passing of FPSS beloved oregano ;)

 
Comment by bluprint
2009-04-18 09:50:09

lol

bad luck or complete urban cluelessness

Maybe its bad luck that you are urban and clueless. ;)

I’m hardly mister greenthumb here but I happened to be reading about composting last night and this morning, and according to one brief comment, potting soil has very few nutrients. In all likelihood the plant was just over or under watered or just didn’t survive the move, but maybe you could get a bag of good compost from somewhere (black gold, or whatever they call it your way) and mix it in with your soil.

Of course I’m making a complete assumption you just used potting soil…

And in a related note, I read about some devices designed for composting in an apartment…in case you think you want to try and tackle that.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-04-18 10:40:44

Oregano, majoram, epazote, tarragon…I can’t wait. There’s already got so much fresh halibut and rockfish at the fishmonger’s lately at really good prices. Many old and potential new recipes floating around in my head. I’m cooking a Goan fish curry from scratch for guests tomorrow, with green papaya salad and saffron cashew rice. Maybe some lime ice and fried bananas for dessert.

God I love food! Well off to the gym…got 15lbs of extra lovin’ around my tummy from a long and depressing winter to get rid of.

Finally Spring! :D

 
Comment by Blano
2009-04-18 10:46:47

Same here NSO, only it’s more than 15 for me. Sheesh.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 11:00:03

NoSingleOne,

Can I be one of your guests? I’m drooling right now. :)

 
Comment by speedingpullet
2009-04-18 11:21:16

Whooeee!
The Goans make the best curries imho - they even have some great recepies for pork curries (being largely Catholic).

Don’t forget the vinegar at the end, NSO.

And, in strange synchronicity, I’m doing a roast dinner of lamb and chicken for 20, to celebrate my lovely husband’s entrance into his 5th decade today.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 11:43:41

FPSS = The Green Tumb of DEATH!

hahahaha… Aarrgh :)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 11:51:23

recipes for pork curries

It’s a consequence of the Inquisition actually. Converted entities were forced to eat pork as proof of allegiance.

That’s why in Spain, you still have Jews who eat park (Marrano Jews) and why Spanish cuisine is so heavy on the pig.

(And yes, I know that Goa was ruled by Portugal but they took part in the Inquisition too.)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-18 12:07:38

I’m sorry your oregano died, Fasty. What a sad day, huh? But try again. Maybe you just scared it to death by poking at it and loudly exhorting it to hurry up and grow. Or maybe it saw you making pesto. Or it could be one of those contrary plants that only grow if and where you don’t want it to. Mushrooms are like that. So are poppies. Stupid poppies and mushrooms!
Anyway, try again, I urge you.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 12:27:29

I am really sorry about your plant Fasty, but if you rolled it and smoked it, I don’t think you can really call it OREGANO !
:)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 13:21:55

Yeah, Oly, it’s a sad day. I think it might be related to the fact that we’ve had an unusually cold wet spring - not enough sunshine.

I’m gonna try again. Maybe put them somewhere else where they get a lot more sunlight.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 13:25:41

To bluprint, no, it’s it not potting soil. I talked to the farmer from whom I got it. They’re using the equivalent of your “black gold”.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-04-18 15:42:31

too much water.

No compost or “black gold” in the sprouting medium. That’s what you transplant them to.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-04-18 17:27:04

The cat got it. hehehehehe

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-04-18 18:52:52

Any HBBers who get to Anchorage are more than welcome to stop by for a home-cooked dinner and conversation.

Agreeing with me is not required. ;)

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 09:40:08

I went to a garden party to reminisce with my old friends
A chance to share old memories and play our songs again
When I got to the garden party, they all knew my name
No one recognized me, I didn’t look the same

But it’s all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can’t please everyone, so ya got to please yourself

People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
‘n’ over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan’s shoes wearing his disguise

lott-in-dah-dah-dah, lot-in-dah-dah-dah

Played them all the old songs, thought that’s why they came
No one heard the music, we didn’t look the same
I said hello to “Mary Lou”, she belongs to me
When I sang a song about a honky-tonk, it was time to leave

lot-dah-dah-dah (lot-dah-dah-dah)
lot-in-dah-dah-dah

Someone opened up a closet door and out stepped Johnny B. Goode
Playing guitar like a-ringin’ a bell and lookin’ like he should
If you gotta play at garden parties, I wish you a lotta luck
But if memories were all I sang, I rather drive a truck

lot-dah-dah-dah (lot-dah-dah-dah)
lot-in-dah-dah-dah

‘n’ it’s all right now, learned my lesson well
You see, ya can’t please everyone, so you got to please yourself

-Ricky Nelson

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 09:25:47

I thought you were gonna post rap lyrics by Ludacris but this is better. ;-)

Comment by wolfgirl
2009-04-18 11:49:02

much better

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Comment by scdave
2009-04-18 09:29:13

Macke says two positions “cash and fetal.”

Good One…:)

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-18 13:49:38

Too true… A bunch of my safety stops triggered recently. I thought about buying SRS in the 30’s but just couldn’t wrap my brain around it being in the 30’s while General Growth is declaring BK (something about ‘CDS meltdown’ whirring around in the fog of my head) so I just decided to forget about it and get down to doing the payroll taxes for my union local. (I thought our former bookkeeper had agreed to do this last bunch before we parted ways, but I was emailed notice that our relationship is terminated. Well, good riddance. And the payroll taxes were as easy as I thought they were. (You wouldn’t believe how the proprietor whined that he was “losing money” doing quarterlies on, typically, 8 checks to three different people. Three hours, my pasty white tush.) Only problem–the ****s put us on the gubmint’s electronic payment system, even though as best as I can make out we NEVER needed to be on that system (something about owing over $2500/quarter), so now I have to get the userid and password from them or we will be assessed penalties we can ill-afford.)

Comment by tresho
2009-04-19 10:28:39

so now I have to get the userid and password from them or we will be assessed penalties we can ill-afford.) I used to be on that system, was always free to just mail the check in, rather than use the electronic system.

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-04-18 10:22:38

I went to a local antiques/art dealer who specializes in unique ethnic/aboriginal and religious art from around the world (my favorite kind-I especially musical instruments). We were quibbling about the price of a Tibetan goatskin Nijin drum that I’ve had my eye on for awhile, and it suddenly occurs to me for the first time that we’re actually seriously bargaining. Never has he been interested in going down more than a token 50 bucks or so, but now he’s going down like 20-50% on some items I have been following for years.

Then he takes a call from someone on his cell phone and steps away to the corner. The shop is so quiet that I can’t help but eavesdrop even from the other end of the store. He is explaining to her that he is “cash poor but inventory rich”, particularly since he has gotten some good deals from estate sales and bankruptcy liquidations. Then he complains about how sales are slow, that tourist traffic in Alaska is projected to be down as much as 25%, and how his car broke down and he had to scramble to find money to get it fixed. He hangs up and sheepishly apologizes for taking the call, telling me that it is the former shop owner, who is also financing the debt on the shop’s mortgage. I don’t think he realized I heard the entire conversation though.

Then we start bargaining again in earnest. Talk about major capitulation! The only thing holding me back was my shyness at aggressively bargaining on all that cool stuff and my budget constraints. I just wasn’t used to being catered to like that.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but is the art bubble on its way to collapse? I have found little in the news to substantiate this, but I really need to start wandering the auction houses and seeing the direction of prices. Just curious if anyone else has noticed anything?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 11:01:54

The art bubble has collapsed. You can google the news out of Sotheby’s to follow it. Virtually, nothing is selling - the reserve prices are too high (gee! where have we seen that before?)

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-18 13:59:58

The “silent auction” at a certain local arts group’s benefit was quite the bust–local businesses and members donated a lot of great stuff for the auction, but bidding was thin (despite the $75 ticket price to get in–or b/c of it?) and some items did not even receive a nibble. It looked like eBay, with top bids of $70 on dry cleaning certificates worth $100. Oy oy oy.

I am FLABBERGASTED by the market but especially the newspaper’s response to it “signs of recovery”. First, everyone has forgotten the mammoth sucker rally that followed the Great Crash. Secondly, everything I’ve heard recently in GNV indicates very hard time for small businesses right now. Local restauranteur: “my regulars who came three times a week aren’t coming any more because they can’t afford it.” Whispers that the local “art” place has slowed down to a trickle. Hippy businesses shutting down (you know, that depended on their more free-spending friends). Upper level and middle level restaurants closing.

Incredibly, however, there are still more mercedes and beemers per capita around here than any sane world could coutenance. And no, they aren’t all driven by rich kids and drug dealers.

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Comment by whyoung
2009-04-18 14:38:49

I think the collectibles market is also pretty slow and prices are down.
I’ve picked up a few really nice things on ebay recently (vintage pottery, out-of-print books, completer pieces for a set of vintage china etc…) at much lower prices than a couple of years ago.
Often only one other or NO other bidders.
Sometimes the cost of shipping is higher than the price of the item!

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-04-18 15:04:30

The art bubble has collapsed.

Yes, indeed. I have friends who work in or own galleries, and know a fair number of working artists. Neither group is doing well.

We had an illustrator friend (a former Chicagoan now living in the Big Apple) stop by today to see the lad, and he was talking about all the fine artists in New York City “losing their sh!t.” Galleries are treading water at best, and artist’s sales are way down. The people who don’t have teaching gigs, commercial work, or a trust fund are seriously screwed right now. The same is happening in places like Chicago and Milwaukee, too, to some extent. But artists outside of NYC and LA are much more likely to have a steady day job, I think.

At the higher levels, which Mr. Pussycat was probab’ly talking about, sales are extremely soft — low interest, reserves not being met, pieces going without bids. Contemporary artists — Hirst, Prince, Koons, etc. — saw some of the biggest leaps in valuation during the bubble, and those types have been taking huge hits in their asking prices.

While I worry about some of the artists we know, art sales needed to return to sanity, just like everything else.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 15:32:07

Art is driven by credit as much as anything else.

I keep track of prices of first editions just out of curiosity (I own none.) Pre-1999, a first-ed of Joyce’s Ulysses sold for about the price of a Honda.

Do-able for the average-Joe if they are that into it.

During the bubble, it sold for the price of about 10 Honda’s. Did the world really create that many lovers of modernist literature in the last 10 years, or was it just credit-driven?

The answer is obvious.

 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-04-18 17:29:27

I’m rereading Staley’s book now. How do I short art???

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Comment by polly
2009-04-18 11:08:58

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but is the art bubble on its way to collapse?

Art is a luxury. People buy it when they are feeling flush and in a mood to indulge themselves. Also when they want to impress their friends with their success. And when they are buying large new homes. I think you will find things going down.

I’m especially interested in the inventory comment. I’ve always thought that Novica.com was an interesting business model. International arts and crafts on-line only, but they don’t purchase itesm from the local aritists/artisans and ship them to the US until someone actually buys it (for most items, they have some stuff that they bring in for quick delivery right before certain holidays). Gives the artists very direct information about what is selling, and they limit the amount of inventory they have to acquire through debt.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 11:45:55

Part of National Geographics. Great and interesting site.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-18 12:03:01

Well, I haven’t bought much from Sotheby’s, so I hadn’t noticed personally. :)
But like Fasty says, I’ve read a few articles here and there lately on Bloomberg and Vanity Fair about the serious reduction in the number of bidders AND in finishing prices on art work, especially modern artwork.

I like to buy or commission student artwork. Although I haven’t bought much lately because my walls are pretty much entirely covered already with books and pieces I already bought. I never get tired of any piece of art I bought, so it has accumulated.
Anyway, I like buying student artwork most of all because first of all they’re very talented— TESC has some GREAT artists—secondly because I well recall being a starving student and if I’m gonna hand over money I like to imagine it going for more paints or else the incredible luxury of peas for the ramen noodles, and thirdly—it’s cheap. Those poor simple students haven’t learned to become wordly and jack up their prices yet. :)
So, really neat things at great prices. Can’t beat it, in my view.
Oh, not just college students, I just recalled–at the Artwalk in downtown Olympia last year I saw a neat print of a beet and called up the 9th grade teacher and bought it from the student, some 13 year old kid who was just thrilled to bits that someone wanted to actually buy their artwork. 15$ whoooole bucks!
I framed it. It’s a glorious beet. :)

Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 12:37:15

(~~)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-18 12:48:23

What is THAT emoticon, Mr. Mikey Man? Are you indicating your eyeballs are all wrinkled up? Maybe because you don’t like beets?
Them’s fighting words! Or else fighting emoticons! Beets are GREAT!

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 13:10:32

It was suppoused to be a pumpkin emote drawing and I was gonna charge you $20 for it :-(( :((

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 13:11:39

sheesh :(

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-18 16:38:32

It was suppoused to be a pumpkin emote drawing and I was gonna charge you $20 for it :-(( :((

Almost as good as a beet, surely. Worth every penny of $20. :)

 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-04-18 18:27:26

I got your emoticon right here, pal- (_!_)

 
Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 18:45:46

Bubba old boy, you couldn’t make my “pals” list with a load of 3rd run Carolina corn licker and a car full of with hookers ;)

 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 13:32:11

Well, I don’t buy stuff from there either so there. :roll:

But, I keep track of these things. Why, you ask? There’s no reason - it’s a bit like keeping track of the seasons or some such. Oh, the Monet’s are in season this year. Aren’t they glorious?

Plus, every once in a while, they allow you to go and peek at them for larcenious prices ($25-ish) and that’s your brief chance to see these before they disappear into private hands again. That’s a good reason isn’t it? ;-)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-18 16:42:44

Why, you ask? There’s no reason - it’s a bit like keeping track of the seasons or some such.

Yes, that’s sensible. You know they’re there, and you know what they look like, and you know they’re probably gonna be around for awhile.
But you still wanna rub your eyes on them, every now and then. :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-04-18 14:59:02

Either way you slice it, current shareholders are going to get diluted.

Comment by REhobbyist
2009-04-18 22:31:33

Thanks, guys. We’ve been sitting on the sidelines with our retirement accounts for the past two years, wondering if and when to get back in. Everybody but the good old HBBers say that we’ve reached bottom. You all have served me well - thanks to you we still have our savings.

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-04-18 22:56:04

NSO,

Epizote grows in Anchorage?
Well I’ll be jiggered….

I’ve still got remnants of some I planted fifteen years ago out on the north 40. Stuff went viral on me, and I’m kind of afraid to try some again in my kitchen garden for fear of it beating the crap out of the asparagus. Rockfish and tarragon sounds so good I’m tempted to start driving. (Might get there by the time it’s big enough to harvest….)

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-04-18 09:14:59

I went to a conference a little while ago - actually, I didn’t have a ticket/membership so I didn’t really go, but I did attend some of the sessions when my boss gave me his name tag for the second day. One session was a presentation by compensation consultants. Very very eye opening.

So, to start with, I think a lot of their clients are trade and business associations. They told us that all the real estate groups are pulling back executive compensation. Good news, yes? Oh, now for the rest.

They told the group flat out that you couldn’t reduce executive bonuses because if you did that too many times (I think that translates to twice) the executives would demand higher base pay. Huh? In this economy? They did acknowledge that it was hard to pay performance bonuses when executives didn’t hit their performance goals. Solution? Well, the associations are non-profits (that means can’t distribute profits through stock ownership, not that they can’t make money), so no stock, so can’t just readjust option strike prices to fix things. No, they recommended that the executives be given retention bonuses instead of performance bonuses to keep them from leaving or demanding pay increases.

So (and this example is entirely my own) lets say your membership director has always had to increase membership by 10% each year to earn his performance bonus. Been hitting his number easily for the past 10 years. And why should that have been all that hard? Your industry has been increasing in size by 15 to 20% per year for most of that decade. This year, your industry is collapsing. Membership director can’t hit his numbers. Probably, no one could. But he would miss his bonus. So you just call it a retention bonus so you never lose his incredible skill at signing up people in the biggest boom your industry has ever seen and doing powerpoint presentations telling the CEO, COO, CFO and Board how clever they are for serving the needs of this booming industry.

See how it works?

One thing they did not explain was where the trade groups were supposed to get the money to pay these bonuses when their membership lists were collapsing, but hey, that is for another conference I guess.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 09:26:49

“One thing they did not explain was where the trade groups were supposed to get the money to pay these bonuses when their membership lists were collapsing, but hey, that is for another conference I guess.”

Too bad no one had the intelligence to ask that question.

Comment by polly
2009-04-18 09:36:51

Well, to be very fair, that question is a little beyond the expertise of the compensation consultants. Their job is mostly to explain what everyone else is doing and (as always) to make the people who hire them (most often the aforementioned senior execitives) happy.

I’m obliged to keep my mouth shut on account of my employer. The rest of them could have at least asked the question. I just don’t think they would have gotten a good answer.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-04-18 10:53:45

One thing they did not explain was where the trade groups were supposed to get the money to pay these bonuses when their membership lists were collapsing, but hey, that is for another conference I guess

Can they apply for TARP funds, I’m sure as soon as the FED and Congress realize that executives are at risk of loosing their bonus money they’ll appropriate the funds. Of course they’ll have to find a way to hide this theft from the public. Maybe they could create a TGBS = Trade Group Backed Security and then explain to the public that these must be bought or else the economy will collapse.

Comment by CA renter
2009-04-18 23:49:55

Good one, measton.

 
 
 
Comment by Frank Hague
2009-04-18 09:26:31

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/18/sports/baseball/18yanknotes.html

It will be interesting to see what happens with the price of sports tickets. I think these prices were in many ways a symptom of the fake prosperity we have had over the past 10 years.

I was at yesterday’s game and noticed what is mentioned in the above article. The lower priced seats were full and the luxury boxes and seats on the field were practically empty. It’s a very nice stadium, but it is beyond insanity to pay $2500 to watch a baseball game or any other sporting event for that matter.

Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 14:22:36

My family has always particpated in, enjoyed and excelled in sports. That said, the DAY that one of us pays $2500, just to WATCH some game, would be the day that the rest of us would have them checked out for a brain concussion.

It’s JUST a friggin’ Game…a *G*A* M* E* !
;)

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-04-18 15:43:49

It’s hard to fathom why people pay so much money to sit and WATCH sports.

If you have a favorite sport……GO OUT AND PLAY IT! Spend your money on equipment, green fees, range fees, league dues, whatever.

You’ll get exercise in the process.

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 05:28:02

Hm. I enjoy watching professional baseball. Could be because baseball (actually softball) has all these associations for me with unpleasant sunburns.

I do miss playing sports, though. Running on a treadmill at the gym is such a drag. It seems like something nobody has time for around here, though I would make time, personally. I, for one, would rather play soccer than watch it.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-19 09:10:01

Oooh, I like watching baseball, too, very much. And hockey. Then there’s that one game where big tall people in very expensive shoes run around with a round orangey-looking ball thingie, but I never got into that one.

Well, if you have no soccer available to play, how about you climb some trees? Do you have trees available? I love climbing trees.

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Comment by Crash and Burn
2009-04-18 09:27:33

Test….This is only a test…Of the HBB system. If this were a real comment You would be reading it and marveling at my prose and wit. Sadly this is only a test. We now return you back to regularly scheduled board.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 09:28:29

Your post was marvelous darling simply marvelous :)

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-04-18 09:47:08

Mortgage scammer sentenced to 13 years

By JEFF OSTROWSKI

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Friday, April 17, 2009

WEST PALM BEACH — Peter Affatati of Coral Springs has been sentenced to 13 years in federal prison for his role in an ambitious mortgage scheme.

Affatati and three other men used straw buyers and bogus loan applications to apply for $40 million in mortgages on more than 50 properties in Florida, Nevada and New York, the U.S. attorney’s office said.

Properties in the scheme included homes in Boca Raton, Highland Beach, Loxahatchee, Jupiter, Hobe Sound and Port St. Lucie.

Comment by Blano
2009-04-18 09:59:54

In a world of billions and trillions, $40 million just doesn’t sound too “ambitious” anymore.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 05:29:07

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Love these chickens coming home to roost. The “anything goes” 2000’s are over. Ditto for the “tax protesters” who shouted to the hills that they didn’t have to pay taxes–and weren’t.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-04-18 09:51:13

Arizona struggles to handle unemployment surgeApril 18, 2009 12:03 PM ET

All Associated Press newsTUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - State workers are falling behind as they struggle to deal with a surge in unemployment insurance claims.

Department of Economic Security spokeswoman Liz Barker says DES has added staff and employees are working nights and weekends.

But 13,722 claims for new and extended unemployment-insurance benefits were filed last week alone. A record 107,000 Arizonans were getting unemployment as of April 11, a 283 percent increase from the 28,000 in January 2008.

Comment by tresho
2009-04-19 10:34:41

One good way to suppress reported unemployment is to not accept reports of unemployment.

Comment by Neil
2009-04-19 14:41:18

I wonder if there is any skew to the data due to the surge in applications. How do you handle 600,000+ new applications yet also handle the carry over load?

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-04-19 12:29:57

Thats werid I hear everyone in AZ is out buying homes ? Best March ever ! Blah blah etc….

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 09:51:45

Great news for San Diego renters! Rents are dropping like a rock!!!

HOUSING: Rents falling as vacancies rise at major complexes
Families sharing space or moving out as recession cuts deeper

By ZACH FOX - Staff Writer | Wednesday, April 1, 2009 9:26 PM PDT ∞

Apartment complexes, such as this one in Escondido, have lowered their rents in another sign of a deepening recession. (Photo by Zach Fox - Staff Photographer)

A handful of big local apartment complexes have cut rents in an attempt to fill empty units, a sign the recession is deepening.

Even though a foreclosure pandemic has forced thousands of local families from their houses, apartment managers said they are struggling to keep their units rented, even in desirable communities on the coast.

At the same time, pressure on landlords is delivering relief for renters, who have seen their costs rise in each of the last 13 years, according to figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Tradition, an apartment complex near the Aviara Golf Course in Carlsbad, has cut its asking rent for a three-bedroom apartment from $2,015 to $1,799 per month, said Kris Nelson, business manager for the complex.

Tradition has seen its vacancy rate rise from a fairly consistent 3 percent to 8 percent recently, Nelson said.

“We keep a regular survey in the area as far as how other apartment rentals are doing, and all of us are literally feeling the same thing,” she said.

Comment by Wickedheart
2009-04-18 10:42:53

The rent for my 3-2 SFR was $1750 when I moved in nearly 3 years ago. It’s 1825 now w/ a lease. If I went month to month it would be $1925. I guarantee that they’ll be asking for a $100 a month increase. $1800 a month would be in line w/ what most comparable places are asking. Moving is out of the question right now.

Comment by Chip
2009-04-18 15:04:02

Not so in central FL. My rent over 4 years went from 74 cents a square foot to 80 cents. Next year: 50 cents a square foot. For a very, very nice place with everything included except electricity.

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-04-18 18:36:18

Okay, let’s assume 1200 sqft.

at .74 a foot the rent is $888.
at .80 a foot the rent is $960.

That’s a pretty high rent for Central Florida.

at .50 a foot the rent is $600. That’s downright cheap for a “very, very nice place”.

What town are you in, Chip? I think the spit’s hitting the fan.

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Comment by Chip
2009-04-18 20:52:28

Bubba - greater Orlando area. It’s a condo, which means even greater savings since everything is included, whereas with a house the tenant may be required to maintain the yard and pay for water and sewer, and trash pickup.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 05:45:25

It’s about where Gainesville was, though house rent is dropping like a rock, now. Too bad I was in a below market rate apt because they raised my rent again. Now at 0.75/sqft with pet fee (grrr).

Decided to stay put this year, but next year should have the pick of the litter. Comm. RE is a horror show and it’s not getting any better any time soon.

 
 
 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-04-18 23:58:48

Tradition, an apartment complex near the Aviara Golf Course in Carlsbad, has cut its asking rent for a three-bedroom apartment from $2,015 to $1,799 per month, said Kris Nelson, business manager for the complex.
——————-

We rent a 4/2.5 — over 2,000 sf, with a nice, private yard — in this general area. Our rent in 2004 was $2,000/month. We have been paying $2,100 after the first year’s lease(though we pay 6 months in advance, and help pay for repairs and maintenance, so there is an offset of sorts).

There is no reason for 3/2 **apartments** to be over $2,000. It’s surprising how many people have been willing to overpay on rents in SD.

Also, many of the increased sales have been going to “investors” who intend to rent them out. You can actually get pretty good positive cash flow in some areas **based on recent rents** that have increased during the initial phase of the bubble collapse.

I think the rental market will begin to get VERY weak.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 09:55:02

I believe the headline on this story is tautologically correct. It is mathematically impossible for San Francisco Bay Area home prices to fall at a 46 percent annual rate for any length of time, and hence the rate of home price decline is bound to soon slow down.

Home price decline starting to slow
James Temple,Carolyn Said, Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, April 17, 2009

(04-16) 10:53 PDT SAN FRANCISCO — Bay Area home prices are still falling, but the pace slowed significantly in March, extending a trend that is beginning to foster real hope that the market is approaching the bottom.

The median sales price across the nine-county region stood at $295,000 for existing single-family homes last month, a 46.3 percent drop from a year ago but off just 0.5 percent from February, MDA DataQuick of San Diego reported Thursday.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 10:00:12

“Home price decline starting to slow”

I guess the Chronicle staff writers are not clued in to the Alt-A and prime ARM reset tsunami which is expected to crest and remain at flood levels over the next two years? Given the prevalence of such mortgages in the Alt-A Bay Area, I would not get too excited over one month’s slowdown in home price declines. The worst is yet to come in high end of the Bay Area residential real estate market.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 11:02:54

They are also not clued in to Google, Genentech, Silicon Valley laying off people as that article went to print.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-04-20 09:20:25

Same in Maryland. Alt-A and Option-Arms all over the place here since “everyone is rich in Maryland” and yet people STILL bought way more house than they could afford!

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-04-18 14:12:22

First, DataQuick’s own web site reports the March median as $290k, not $295k. Second, there’s always a seasonal uptick this time of year.

But even if we ignore seasonal effects, the $290k March median is 12.2% below the $330k December median (three months ago), which extrapolates to a 40% annual rate.

The Alt-A and Option ARM resets/recasts have barely started, and will be ongoing for the next three years. There are also many foreclosures that haven’t hit the market yet, and many deadbeats who haven’t yet been foreclosed upon because of the (now expired) moratorium. So I don’t think we have to worry too much about a spring or summer bounce this year.

 
Comment by Pullthe trigger?
2009-04-18 16:45:47

Bay area falls to 46%? I LAUGH OUT LOUD. Remember all those snooty people saying that it’s different this time? Just goes to show ya. I’m so glad.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-04-19 16:25:57

Mathematically, it is quite possible for prices to fall at a 46% rate indefinitely. Of course, they will get pretty low fairly rapidly, but they can still fall at that rate. You, of all people, should know that!

 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-04-18 09:58:27

Here’s a place to consider if TSHTF: a friend from South Africa sent me this:

the government of Congo-Brazzaville (not to be confused with Democratic Rep of Congo) has offered local farmers 11 million hectares of land in their country on a 99 year lease, no tax payable and all profits can be repatriated. A few French farmers have taken them up on their offer and already produce chocolate, coffee, and are about to plant vines Anyone game?

Just FYI.

Comment by Chip
2009-04-18 15:16:51

Montana - nice to know, but I’ll pass. Been there. Namibia or Botswana, maybe.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 10:03:37

San Diego Reader
Stories
City Lights
How About Trying a Free Market?
By Don Bauder | Published Wednesday, April 8, 2009

On March 23, stocks were headed for a fabulous 7 percent gain. The Obama administration had just come out with a program in which private investors could buy toxic bank assets by putting up almost nothing; the U.S. government would ante up more than 90 percent of the dough. It was a case of no risk and huge rewards; Wall Street was exultant. The president’s economic guru Larry Summers deadpanned that the market was reacting favorably to the program — but, gee, the government really didn’t worry about the stock market, he intoned, as his nose grew to three feet long.

After the bursting of the tech-stock bubble in 2000–2002, the Federal Reserve needed another bubble. It lowered interest rates to the floor. In previous years, Congress had made many steps to encourage home ownership: tax breaks, creation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy mortgages and sell them to investors. Politicians hyped home ownership of low-income families by encouraging issuance of subprime mortgages and peddling of them to investors. The country set itself up for a nuclear explosion: lenders didn’t care whether a borrower could afford a mortgage; after all, it would be sold to Wall Street and then to investors. The paper was peddled in the form of highly and deliberately complicated derivatives containing those mortgages.

San Diego, which had always had high home prices and moderate incomes, was on the leading edge — of the precipice. Citizens snapped up mortgages with teaser rates that would later balloon. San Diego became the capital of exotic mortgages. Foreclosures cascaded. Prices have plunged more than 40 percent since their 2005 peak — one of the biggest declines in the nation.

Now San Diegans’ stocks and home values are down 40 percent or more. And the government intends to prop up both. You may think that’s good news, but it’s bad news for long-term stability and sanity. Moral hazard makes it so.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 10:07:05

The Fed may have run out of bubbles (Krugman), but that does not prevent them from trying to recycle them. They are currently trying in every conceivable manner to recycle asset price bubbles and to use a full court economic propaganda press to bamboozle the sheeple into confidently snapping up assets once again, on the dubious theory that housing and stock prices always go up. Good luck with that plan, which utterly fails to address the structural problems in the real economy.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-04-18 10:45:59

Agree 100%.

I’d rather see the money go into ensuring an adequate social safety net against starvation and homelessness as well as catastrophic health insurance instead of rescuing stupid monopolistic banks back into profitability.

Comment by measton
2009-04-18 11:00:28

I”d rather see the money going to preserve/create jobs. Unemployment not the collapse of GS will result in more crime, and social unrest. These fools will grab all the money but they will eventually face a sea of pitchforks and torches.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 11:06:36

Pitchforks and torches are so 1500s. Let’s bring this phase up to the 21st century:

“face a sea of guns and more guns”

 
Comment by polly
2009-04-18 12:04:13

And several steaming hot pots of Lipton and Tetley.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-04-18 12:22:11

Ah, great words of courage! At all levels of government I sometimes feel alone in thinking the government bodies have gone way far beyond their functions of defending individual rights and now are at war against people who live their lives as they see fit, notably even if the lifestyles are peaceful and do not initiate force or the threat of force or fraud against anyone else.

People are focused on the massive increase in government power at the federal level, and rightly so. Few, like myself, have seen how state fascism is creeping in and jailing peaceful people.

But it’s going to get more blatent. If you do not see state and municipal level fascism now, you will become aware of it within five years. My own revolution tactics are non-violent. Rather than civil disobedience, I am going to get my passport and exercise the civil liberties I will have in Canada that I know are not allowed in the U.S. This is merely weekend travel.

 
Comment by jane
2009-04-19 03:29:47

Bill, Alad was talking like that before he disappeared. Is everything OK?

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 05:50:28

When he says Canada, I think of two things: gay marriage and lower penalties on pot. (Still illegal, though.) Since we know he’s too boring for the former, and female prostitution is no more legal there than here (though, wink wink, nudge nudge, unless you have enemies like Eliot Spitzer you aren’t bloody well going to get busted for paying big bucks to call girl agencies), so that leaves weed…

I think weed should be legal, too, but I’m not going to try out that hypothesis in front of the local constabulary.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-04-19 12:45:42

I think weed should be legal, too, but I’m not going to try out that hypothesis in front of the local constabulary.

Me, neither, unless they’re over to my place and just hanging out and entirely off-duty.
I must say—there is nobody who can party more thoroughly than a cop.
See, they have to relax and unwind and de-stress from all the things they have to deal with.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-04-19 14:44:33

I tried to reply a few moments ago. Sorry if this is a double post but my computer crashed.

I’ll be better with time, and that’s the good news. Also I learned a lot the last few weeks about laws in different geographies. It’s always good to learn.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to go through the same stress that I’m going through. I’m not able to be specific now.

The revolutionary war in the U.S. needed only a catalyst. My own situation won’t be the catalyst, but could be part of it. The general deal is it’s becoming harder and harder to live free, responsibly, and peacefully. When enough people realize what I do today, perhaps we will get that peaceful revolution.

 
 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-04-20 09:23:59

Precisely: the scam runs on inflation and asset price bubbles. That is what has replaced a real economy in this nation. Unfortunately, in the scam-economy, all the money flows to the top while those at the bottom either live high on the hog in debt for a while or get ground under while trying to fight off run-away inflation with wages that trend downwards.

The alternative is a real, sustainable economy with jobs that pay enough for people to buy the products and services produced by our economy. But, since that makes far less money for the parasite class, don’t hold your breath waiting for it to show up!

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 10:16:02

What I don’t get: With US property prices dropping at double-digit rates in so many parts of the country, why don’t more homeowners just hand over the keys to the bank and start renting?

US property prices down 29pc and still falling fast

US house prices have fallen 29pc from their peak and are still tumbling at the fastest rate on record, according the closely watched Case-Shiller index.
By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Last Updated: 9:16PM BST 31 Mar 2009
US property prices down 29pc and still falling fast

Antlee Accius sits in the former living room of his foreclosed home in Miami, Florida Photo: GETTY IMAGES

The latest figures dash hopes that emergency action by the US Federal Reserve over the winter would at least slow the pace of decline.

Prices dropped 19pc in the 20 largest cities in the year to January, with an accelerating downward lurch during the first weeks of 2009.

There was a flicker of life last week when the National Association of Realtors reported a 5.1pc rise in sales of existing homes in February, a sign that overhang of foreclosed houses is slowly starting to clear – especially on the West Coast.

Anecdotal reports hint at a burst of sales in March, helped by an $8,000 tax credit for first-time buyers.

Chris Whalen, from Institutional Risk Analytics, said the crisis is spreading from bubble zones such as Arizona and Florida into rock-solid neighbourhoods in the East. It is also climbing up the credit ladder.

“Sub-prime has peaked in terms of loss rates but the problem now is prime property, and commercial real estate is falling off the table,” he said.

There is concern that delayed time bombs on Alt-A (one notch above sub-prime) and Option-ARM “teaser” mortgages offered in the final phase of the boom have yet to detonate. The upward resets are heavily clustered in 2009 to 2010, although Fed policy should cushion the blow.

Comment by CA renter
2009-04-19 00:10:58

What I don’t get: With US property prices dropping at double-digit rates in so many parts of the country, why don’t more homeowners just hand over the keys to the bank and start renting?
———————

I think there is a hidden “problem” that will surface within the next 12-24 months.

In addition to the moratoriums, it seems some lenders/servicers are not issuing NODs or NOTS. I’m hearing stories all over the place about people who are not paying their mortgages or are just paying a token amount to “keep the lenders off their backs.”

IMHO, at some point, we are going to see delinquencies and NODs skyrocket.

We are seeing what appears to be higher consumer spending around here in coastal North County. After going through a **very** slow fall and winter, spring is proving to be quite busy. I’m **guessing** many people have just gotten a $2,000-$4,000 MONTHLY “stimulus check” because they have effectively joined the squatter class (and who can blame them, what with the govt convincing everyone that they are “victims” of the big, bad banks?). If you don’t have to pay housing costs, that leaves plenty left over with which to shop and spend!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 10:20:58

Equity Premium Puzzle SOLVED

Wall Street Journal
* APRIL 18, 2009

Flashbacks of the 1970s for Stock-Market Vets
By TOM LAURICELLA

John Spooner remembers that during the depths of the 1970s bear market, a joke made the rounds.

Q: “What do you call a stockbroker?”

A: “Waiter!”

That joke, says the Smith Barney veteran, is making the rounds again. The only difference, he notes, is that today brokers are known as financial advisers.

The credit crisis and the depth of the stock-market decline, even after recent gains, have had many investors looking to the Great Depression for parallels. But for some, today’s environment brings back memories of their early years on Wall Street during the 1970s when stock investors bailed out of the market and, for the most part, didn’t come back for a decade.

“The summer of 1974 was so bad that we used to go out to the bars at lunch and not go back to the office,” says Jeffrey Saut, who got his start on a trading desk in 1971 and today is chief market strategist at Raymond James Financial. “It felt like stocks were never going to go up.”

View Full Image
THAT ‘70S BEAR: Market veterans recall a lost decade for stocks and see similarities. From left: John Spooner, Lloyd Glazer, Charles Johnson
Photographs provided by the subjects

Today, many market pros, including Mr. Saut, are thinking the worst of the stock-market declines are likely over. But few harbor hopes of a sustained bull market and many think stocks could go mostly sideways for at least the rest of the year.

Meanwhile, the math required for investors to recoup their losses is daunting: It will take a 74% rise in the Dow to reach its peak hit in October 2007. More dispiriting for many is that the Dow is down 22% from where it was a decade ago.

Much like the current market, investors entered the 1970s still heady from the go-go years of the mid-1960s, even after a bear market that lasted from the end of 1968 through 1970.

The Dow rallied to hit an all-time high of 1051.70 in January 1973 but from there it was all downhill as the oil crisis and Watergate sent stocks into a 45% tailspin. Despite periodic rallies in the years to come, the Dow wouldn’t recover to hit a new high until November 1982.

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2009-04-18 14:02:16

‘The Boston Globe reported Monday that the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. switched much of its $64 billion insurance fund into speculative investments, including real estate, private equity funds and stocks in emerging foreign markets.

I like the comparison of an insurance companies that insures against huricane damage investing in beach front property. Brilliant.’

I think we will know a bottom is in place when investing in stocks get glares from co-workers and the like. Right now, it looks like assets are not exactly what people thought they were supposed to be.

Comment by CA renter
2009-04-19 00:17:13

IMHO, the reason so many “conservative” institutions were investing in questionable assets was because **interest rates have been artificially forced too low for far too long.**

We are in a period where pension funds, mutual funds and other large, institutional investors were supposed to be making up for the losses incurred during the dot.com bust. When Greenspan lowered rates to 1%, he forced all these investors to chase yield and increase risk. Now, Bernanke is doing it all over again.

The answer to all our problems is to let interest rates float and to get the govt out of the markets. We need to contract money supply, let asset prices fall, and increase rates.

Risk premiums need to be set by the market, or we will continue to see gross misallocation of capital.

Comment by vozworth
2009-04-19 18:40:38

The answer to all our problems is to let interest rates float and to get the govt out of the markets

your expectations of non-govermental intervention is precisely why you cannot see a recovery. Interest rates do float, and when they ultimatley catch-up to you (Iceland/Zimbabwe?) your people are swapping cash for goods faster than the thread already happened, and ended.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 10:24:22

One-two knockout punch of pensioners by the Fed:

1) ZIRP has blown liabilities through the roof. Coupled with massive asset price declines, many pension plans have to currently be on the brink of insolvency.

2) Next up: “Higher than expected” inflation, which will quickly erode the value of any fixed income pensions which survive the current period of high insolvency risk.

SOMEHOW THE MSM HAS COMPLETELY MISSED THIS STORY!!!!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-18 10:54:47

This is 1970’s-redux - same holocaust happened to pension plans then.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 11:07:52

Yup I remember. So true those who forget history tend to repeat it.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-04-18 11:09:33

Don’t forget most of those pensions are massively underfinanced and will collapse. Plus as you know the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp moved into the market just as things collapsed.

WASHINGTON, March 30 (UPI) — The U.S. agency that insures pensions for 44 million Americans says it lost billions on investments made as the market headed down in 2008.

The Boston Globe reported Monday that the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. switched much of its $64 billion insurance fund into speculative investments, including real estate, private equity funds and stocks in emerging foreign markets.

I like the comparison of an insurance companies that insures against huricane damage investing in beach front property. Brilliant.

Just imagine the pain if they had been allowed to move Social Security into the market at the peak.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 15:12:25

“Don’t forget most of those pensions are massively underfinanced and will collapse.”

That is punch 1 of the Fed’s 1-2 knockout punch combination. Like long-term Treasurys, the value of pension liabilities increases drastically when the bottom drops out on long-term interest rates.
Lowering long-term interest rates to zero in the wake of an asset market collapse has the effect of sending pension liabilities through the roof, just after pension assets have collapsed. Hense, as you suggest, pensions are massively underfunded, and any company that goes bankrupt with their pension plan in the current state is likely to just dump it on the PBGC, leaving most covered by the plan with a retirement income at a meager fraction of what was projected.

Punch 2 will be to inflate away the value of any fixed income pensions that survive the first punch. The Fed is implicitly taxing pensioners to save banks.

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 05:53:21

And the sad thing is, pensioners (perhaps because they see no evil, hear no evil) have no idea the shell game is going on.

Imagine if the pensioners and soon to be pensioners had revolted in the early 2000’s?

Too late, now.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-04-20 09:28:25

Of course!

All savers, pensioners, and other productive people will be ground under to keep the banks happy.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 15:14:17

“Just imagine the pain if they had been allowed to move Social Security into the market at the peak.”

At least G*d stood in the way of the Bushies’ attempt to hand over the Social Security assets to Wall Street, just before the big collapse of the investment banking sector.

 
Comment by skroodle
2009-04-18 17:06:24

The PBGC has several limits on benefits are paid, so when it acquires a plan it will never pay out as much as the plan originally promised.

Inflation also greatly benefits the PBGC.

Also, plans may be given back if a company later achieves financial success.

Comment by tresho
2009-04-19 10:41:10

plans may be given back if a company later achieves financial success Has this ever happened before? Is it likely to ever happen?

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Comment by measton
2009-04-18 11:20:13

The biggest property tax deadbeat in Dane County is hoping to shed the title by selling some of its holdings at bargain basement prices.

Kraus Real Estate and Builders, Inc. of Sun Prairie next month will attempt to unload 60 properties that have contributed to an overdue tax bill of more than $815,000.

The properties up for auction include condominiums, single family homes and undeveloped lots

J. P. King Auction Company of Gadsen, Ala., is billing the Saturday, May 2 event as the “largest real estate auction ever in Wisconsin.” .

total retail value of $10 million to $12 million.

?? “I know somebody up there is going to get a hell of a deal,” King said in a phone interview. “This builder is making history by utilizing the auction process during a slow real estate market.”

The slowing real estate market and general economic downturn have also resulted in a record amount of delinquent property taxes, according to Dane County Treasurer Dave Worzala.

The amount of delinquent taxes owed to the county has nearly doubled since 2005, climbing to $13.3 million through Dec. 31, 2008. The number of tax delinquent properties jumped 27 percent last year, from 2,845 to 3,942.

And Worzala noted the total from April 1 of this year is running about 300 properties ahead of the same date a year ago.

“That’s pretty solid evidence the trend is continuing,” said Worzala, who was appointed treasurer last July and elected to the post in November 2008.

While the back taxes are technically owed to Dane County, they actually belong to the various units of government including cities, towns, villages and school districts. The county collects the taxes, divides the money up and sends it along to the proper entity.

While some $13 million in unpaid taxes is tiny compared to the county’s $493 million overall budget, Worzala said the county can’t carry the load forever — even with the 18 percent annual interest rate charged on bills past due. Taxes are considered delinquent if not paid in full by the due date, even if only $10 short.

“The county has reserves and cash flow, so it’s not like we don’t have the money,” said Worzala. “But it’s impossible to continue on like this because these large increases will start to add up after four or five years. That’s why we need to be proactive.”

The list of property tax delinquencies is historically dominated by real estate developers, home builders or land speculators who delay paying taxes in hopes of recouping those costs when an office park or subdivision is completed. Despite the 18 percent interest penalty, it’s often more feasible to leave the taxes unpaid until the last possible moment.

But with the residential building market still in a funk — there were 667 permits for new construction in all of 2008, down 43 percent from 2007 — more and more developers are seeing their tax obligations soar.

“In the case of the upcoming Kraus real estate auction, AnchorBank is offering special financing packages to help move the unsold properties.

Buyers on auction day will automatically qualify for financing with 5 percent down plus an additional 5 percent at closing within 30 days. Anchor is offering 30-year fixed rate loans at 5.4 percent and 15-year loans at 4.95 percent.

“This auction process is a new thing for us so we’re not sure how many people will show up,” said Clark Hofer of Anchor’s East Towne office. “I’ve been getting a few phone calls and it would be great to get 300 or 400 people out there.”

Meanwhile, Dale Knapp of the Wisconsin Taxpayers Alliance said if Dane County is having problems collecting unpaid taxes, he can only imagine what it’s like elsewhere.

“We really haven’t had a slowdown like this since the early 1980s,” he said. “I can see how the counties are worried.”

Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 11:53:14

Wisconsin is throwing it’s all of it’s tax money into the all the wrong holes.

Try filling a few potholes instead of crooks POCKETS Wisconsin !
:)

 
Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 18:07:12

deep pockets are gonna drop the hammer on this post.

I would not be looking for more downside in residential after the next 18 months.

Imma Polyanna bottom caller. I new her when she was just a two holed corn picker.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-04-18 11:38:46

Krugman krugman.blogs.nytimes

Brad DeLong lists three possible explanations for the Obama administration’s bank policy, and expresses angst that officials don’t seem to be clear about what they’re actually up to. Matthew Yglesias points out that the president seemed to offer a fourth narrative yesterday. I’d add that in the past we’ve heard yet another narrative — that we can’t imitate Sweden because we have too many banks — that happens to be all wrong.

Can I say that this very proliferation of narratives is disturbing? I don’t want to claim moral equivalence with the Bushies, who were utterly cynical about such things, but the ever-shifting rationales for an unchanging policy do bring back unhappy memories of the selling of the 2001 tax cut, and for that matter — again, no moral equivalence! — of the selling of the Iraq War.

Comment by Pullthe trigger?
2009-04-18 17:07:53

You’ve never met a terrorist you haven’t loved, have you? :)

Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 18:35:27

Maybe he knew some scared 19 yr old American boys with full auto M-16’s or some 37 yr old USAF B-52 pilots. I knew quite a few of both and those boys sure as hell managed to spread a little terror in the name of God and Country ;)

 
Comment by exeter
2009-04-18 19:41:28

I’ve never read where Measton loved Bush and his minions.

Oh… economic terrorists don’t count?

 
 
 
Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 11:40:18

Hello to all. I’ve been a reader these past months and have appreciated all the expertise I’ve found here. I thought perhaps someone might shed some light on a particular obstacle I am consistently coming up against as I search for an inexpensive - as in reo/foreclosure - in an adult community to live out the time left to me.

It seems as a member of the public, it is very tough to get access to any bank owned deals.

Recently I saw online, closed listings indicating that three homes in the area I am looking to relocate to had been sold for LESS than HALF the amount that had been their asking prices. One of the homes I had looked at last summer, but at more than twice the price, I couldn’t afford it.

These were homes in good condition.

A realtor friend confirmed to me that a realtor had bought all three, on the same day. I checked the county foreclosure listings and called the county office. These properties had NOT been sold at foreclosure by the County Sheriff. The Sheriff indicated that most properties in this location go for close to the amount owed on the mortgage, which these days is usually close to 100% or more of current market value

It seems Joe or Janet 6Pak who really wants to buy a home to actually LIVE in, are never privy to the deals the realtors are managing to get.

I saw a home online I suspected was bank owned. I researched half the day online, making calls to the township to find the block and lot etc., the bank owed, etc. but can find no way to attempt to purchase direct from the bank in the same way that I suppose that realtor was able to with those 3 less than half price home purchases.

I called the bank involved, who directed me to their foreclosure website…which directed me to a “third party” website to register with to get it’s bank owned list. Yup, the third party site I was being asked to join was a realtor’s site.

Is there anyway ordinary folks get get these bank owned deals except from the realtors who buy them first if the amount owed is cheap enough, only to double the price to flip to the end buyer??

Thanks for any insight forthcoming on this.

Comment by mikey
2009-04-18 12:20:15

I use several banks and have noticed this type situation with two of them. The bank directs REO inquiries to an officer ? at the banks HQ or “holding company”. He in turn wants to direct you to their your to their chosen RE agency or some RE LLC outfit for business, a showing or information.

Oh Yeah…right, so you nice guys are gonna give me a REAL DEAL on my bank’s REO !

mikey sits on his pumpkin…wide-eyed :)

It all seems as Kosher as the student loan companies having their own people on campus, masquerading and pretending to be university student assistance personel, while scalping young students and unwitting parents alike.

Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 12:54:57

Thank you for your reply mikey…

It seems that though the general public is the first to be asked to bail out bad banking decisions, the general public is the last to be offered anything positive.

Unless you pay nearly $50/mo to a site like Realtytrac, there is no place you can even find the information easily, that you need to track down who now owns the property.

I asked the township contact why their onsite document search can’t do it’s thing on a simple address, but instead requires info not easily available to normal people. She said because there may be three different locations ie; three different properties on roads of the same name but different townships. I said the GPS system merely gives the three different choices, so why can’t the township software do the same!

 
Comment by Pullthe trigger?
2009-04-18 17:16:42

That’s the thing. They’re all inside deals and they will not capitulate until they have to, which will be fairly soon. We are better off just waiting until all this settles and houses on the MLS are bargains. It’s still stupid to buy right now, anyway, as unemployment is rising, credit is getting even tougher and house prices will continue to fall for the next 2 years at least. Let them have their inside deals for now. It just goes to show you that the unemployment hasn’t yet run its cycle enough to expand the inventory to crush the Kool-Aid drinkers and knife catchers, who think that this market is going to turn around soon. Good Luck with that!

 
Comment by James
2009-04-18 19:20:20

Oh. We have heard rumors that the best deals and pocket listings go to people connected to the banks. The best properties never become sales.

Anyhow. The banks are shells that exist to enrich a few elite insiders. Many no longer function in any reasonable fashion. I’m sure there is a massive amount of fraud here being passed to the shareholders (and us) but not expecting anything to be done by the FBI/SEC.

Hopefully some lawyers get interested and then something might happen.

I’m going to email Nader and a few other do good’ers with this.

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-04-18 12:20:44

I don’t know about the details of getting access, but it sounds like the area you are interested in is still full of speculators. They are setting the price, but it is almost certainly still going down. Let them do this work for you and wait a while. At some point, there will be so much bank owned inventory that the speculators won’t be able to snap it all up. Or they will be so sick of snapping things up and then finding they could have bought for less if they had just waited , they will stop. That is your time.

If you have to worry about the deals disappearing before normal people can get access, then the real deals are still to come.

Also, be careful of these areas. My parents are in a development that the jack-ss developer built in Massachusetts from plans created for Arizona - not exactly weather appropriate. There have been problems all along, but the newest is that he used particle board in the roofs where plywood was required and even the slightest dampness getting through has the roofs pretty much melting. Not pretty.

Comment by bluprint
2009-04-18 12:38:39

Assuming there are no future significant price declines, what she is describing is really just a wholesaler-type situation evolving. One would expect this to happen, imo. The banks don’t want to have to market every house, so they will sell them at discounts from retail price to people/organizations with whom they have established relationships.

The wholesalers will sell them for retail and a lot of individual, retail buyers aren’t going to get “good deals”, they are going to pay retail. The difference in “flipping” is the price the wholesaler gets for his service and it was paid by the bank in lost potential sell price. The wholesaler is also taking on some risk of future price declines but thats just an additional confounding factor and doesn’t really change anything described above for the retail buyer with regard to her relationship with the bank.

So the question here is how to buy at the wholesale price, which is something people are always interested in doing. How do you do that? Maybe make friends with the wholesaler/distributor (a realtor) or with someone who works for or with a bank in some other capacity. Maybe get a realtors license (if you have nothing better to do) and get a job with such a firm. Maybe a commission-only thing. If you can get involved in that stream it would greatly increase your chances of buying at a below-retail price.

Comment by polly
2009-04-18 13:02:15

The banks don’t have to market each house. The normal relationship is for them to hire the agents to do that for them in exchange for a percent of the sales price. There is no reason for the bank to give up 50% of the possible price when they could get the same services for 6%. Something fishy is going on (possibly banks fraudulently screwing over their shareholders by selling below market to insiders), but more likely is is just a trickle of speculators who are setting the market on the way down. I’m sure there are places where vulture real estate funds have started to operate, but they know enough to wait until the market is saturated with REO.

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Comment by bluprint
2009-04-18 13:17:50

Well, I was thinking that the realtor would already have a relationship with the bank and therefore would be in a position to play that wholesaler role.

Also, while the bank doesn’t have to DO the marketing in this case, they have to hold the asset for the period it takes. There might be some value for them to take a hit in exchange for immediate liquidity. However, I doubt a 50% hit makes sense, so there is somewhere in the middle that this works out. Partially the 50% difference is merely finding the price with possibily part of that the immediate liquidity benefit.

I’m sure there are places where vulture real estate funds have started to operate

I have my resume in a portfolio in the grad school I attend. Recently, a guy contacted me about doing some part-time work with regard to real estate investing. Some of the work would be financial analysis, but upon talking with him he said mostly right now it’s just calling banks, because the banks (according to him) haven’t really started selling their toxic assets yet.

The guy is the owner of some kind of industrial/commercial real estate investment company (I think it would be termed a private equity co) in Dallas.

 
 
Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 13:06:07

Blueprint…yeah, the banks expect normal people to bail them out, yet normal folks are banned from partaking of the properties we’ve paid the bail on. Something is very wrong with such a picture.

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Comment by CA renter
2009-04-19 00:30:15

I’ve seen the same thing, and share your frustration and anger.

Houses are SHELTER for regular people. People who are looking to buy a home for their families (one home, primary occupancy) should somehow take priority before various “connected” funds, realtors, and flipper scum.

 
 
 
Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 13:03:04

Thank you Polly for replying..

It’s good advice. However, my situation is directed towards an older (70’s - 90’s) community. It’s already much cheaper to buy in this particular community at current market price than to rent there, which is why realtors are grabbing the below market properties.

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-18 14:12:34

Offer to buy from someone in foreclosure/short sale situation rather than wait for the bank to take it? And cut the realtwhore out of it? Banks sometimes refuse short sales, end up losing even MORE money, but sometimes they will play, knowing what’s at stake.

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Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 17:11:31

How do I find short sales, or preforeclosures gator…when even the bank owned ones further along are hidden from the normal public? Advertise? I tried that but didn’t get any response.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 05:56:07

That’s what I was going to suggest… huh. And I guess these distressed folks aren’t going FSBO? They’re just sitting on their hands until the anvil drops?

 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-04-18 15:29:08

Lyn - when you figure that it is cheaper to own than to rent, what rent ratio are you using? For example, are home/unit prices less than 100 times a month’s rent?

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Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 17:12:34

Yes Chip, in this particular area they are. :-)

 
Comment by Chip
2009-04-18 20:56:27

Lyn - good for you. So far, I suspect your area is decidedly in the minority. What’s happening in many places, including here, is that rental rate decreases are outpacing house price decreases, so that every time it seems like it might be time to buy, rents get cheaper and it isn’t. Sounds like you may be near a large school, or in a pretty small town that isn’t very close to a big employment hub.

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-04-18 16:54:01

Be even more careful in a situation like this (70’s to 90’s residents). People that old should not have mortgages at all. Again, my parents are in their late 60’s in a development that is mostly older than they are. Too many people have mortgages or HELOC’s. A few bad construction problems requiring assessments and people who can’t afford the assessments could spell disaster. Be very, very careful.

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Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 17:30:16

Hi Polly,

In this case, I meant the homes were built between the 1970’s and 1990’s, so the newer construction issues are not a factor.

As far as taking on a mortgage, the small amount I would need would be $500/mo as opposed to $1000/mo in rent.
Taxes are under $200/mo.

If I could get a home as the realtors are able to do…for half, I would need no mortgage at all.

I am 61, and since it is a small amount, expect I could pay it off within the next five years.

 
Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 17:32:27

p.s. Polly

I agree I should avoid a mortgage, no matter how low, if possible…which is why I was hoping to get the same opportunity as the realtors are getting.

 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-18 20:44:21

Polly,

jack-ss developer built in Massachusetts from plans created for Arizona - not exactly weather appropriate. There have been problems all along, but the newest

Same thing for my mom’s small “income fixed senior ” property in the high fallutin town of Indian Wells. Indian Wells hired a bad contractor and now half the dev. seniors have been moved at Indian Wells cost to another location. Slabs are shifting.
Mom’s kitchen sink hardward wobbles. These places are only 4 yrs old. Crap. Nicer than other spots, but built like crap nonetheless.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-04-18 15:30:03

“Is there anyway ordinary folks get get these bank owned deals except from the realtors who buy them first if the amount owed is cheap enough, only to double the price to flip to the end buyer?? ”

In my opinion no, Lyn. For the most part banks don’t deal with the general public in those situations…..they have their procedures, they have the realtors they’ll work with yes, the best deals don’t often make it to the market. Having been exposed to some of that in the past, I can say it’s probably still going on, maybe even more so than before.

It’s wrong, but it is what it is. Sorry I can’t give you something better.

Comment by Lyn
2009-04-18 17:37:07

Thanks Blano…I know in my heart that’s the way it is, but was hoping perhaps someone had found a way around it.

Just like government has to put things out for bids, perhaps these banks that are running off of government bailouts should have to give the public a chance at these offerings.

Appreciate the empathy tho! :-)

Comment by exeter
2009-04-18 19:47:14

There is no possible way the REIC, namely realturds can finance and hold onto the burgeoning inventory….. not a chance. Yeah, I’m sure some are thinking they got some sweet deals right now. Just you wait a few years. They’re gonna regret their greed.

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Comment by REhobbyist
2009-04-18 22:50:23

Hi Lyn. You could get your real estate license. It only cost me about $300. After that you can access the MLS for a few hundred. If you, as you claim, can save 50% that would be great. Where I live the REOs aren’t that much cheaper than owner-occupied properties and I’ve seen realtors outbid by cash customers. Most realtors don’t have cash.

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Comment by measton
2009-04-18 12:02:34

I loved the title of this article.

Analysis: Obama braces country for slow, steady recovery

Chef braces patrons for tasty dinner.
Financial Advisor braces customers for more wealth.
Ice Cream man braces children for sweet treats..

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-04-18 12:30:25

But the best one:

“Sully” Sullenberger told his passengers (over the intercom) to brace themselves, and he landed safely in the Hudson and no life was lost.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-18 20:53:40

Ice Cream braces children for braces.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 12:14:35

2 more banks fail, lifting this year’s tally to 25

Regulators on Friday shut down two more banks, boosting the number of failures this year to as many as in all of last year.

The tally of 25 bank failures this year all but guarantees the number that fall into the arms of regulators will surpass what was seen in 2008. Two of the nation’s largest savings and loans failed in 2008: Washington Mutual Inc. and IndyMac Bank. Last year’s total was more than in the previous five years combined and up from only three failures in 2007.

http://tinyurl.com/cjba4l

Comment by desertdweller
2009-04-18 20:55:15

Just saw mrtg broker zipping along HWY111 in 427 Shelby… he did some mortgages for me in 94,97…and since then, he musta done well for himself..

Midweek drive by..

 
 
Comment by ZionRenter
2009-04-18 12:36:01

I found this little gem in the Salt Lake Tribune. It seems that those with money are getting great deals on there own falling knifes. Cauton this will make you sick and mad as heck. link
http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_12167444

Comment by Chip
2009-04-18 16:01:24

Most likely this developer had little to no real skin of his own in the deal. Hopefully that will be a lesson well learned and long remembered. It’s really easy to gamble with other people’s money when there are no personal consequences. Yeah, it sucks that this guy is able to buy the stuff back for a dime, and I’ll bet that even this acquisition is leveraged. Suckers get screwed by financing such folks without requiring any proof that the developer personally has a lot at risk.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 12:45:41

Olympiagal,

Thought you might like this article

The Urban Scavengers

http://tinyurl.com/dmn676

Read the comments. There’s some great links.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 15:24:03

If the developer went bankrupt, how on G*d’s earth did he come up with the dough to buy it back? And who is the bagholder here? (I am guessing it is Uncle Sam, though the article does not make this clear.)

Bankrupt luxury community sold to same developer
By Paul Foy

The Associated Press
Updated: 04/17/2009 09:08:26 PM MDT

In a highly unusual bankruptcy outcome, the developer of a luxury golf community near Park City bought it back for pennies on the dollar Friday because the leading creditor was unable to scrape together a bid and nobody else was interested.

Promontory was sold for just $30 million to the developer who defaulted on $275 million in loans packaged by Credit Suisse and sold to hedge funds and other investors.

Francis Najafi, chief executive of Phoenix-based Pivotal Group, emerged triumphantly from a courtroom Friday as the same owner of Promontory, where more than 350 multimillion-dollar homes have already been built. Members pay hefty fees for golf and other amenities, including opulent lodges and a warehouse-size horse stable. Najafi kept operations going during a yearlong bankruptcy.

Najafi insisted the bankruptcy was not his doing. A group of creditors who forced the bankruptcy said he stopped paying loans in December 2007. Najafi countered that Credit Suisse agreed to loan money he says he didn’t even need and that the bank was a victim of its own excess.

“Ultimately, I believe in the magic of America,” said Najafi, an Iranian-born, self-made real-estate tycoon who believes the market for expensive second homes will come back.

“There is no question in my mind that the economy will recover,” he said.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 15:25:23

Sorry about the misfire — I was aiming to comment on ZionRenter’s post.

 
 
 
Comment by Reuven
2009-04-18 12:50:13

I’ll be at NAB/Vegas next week. If any HBB’ers will be there, let me know!

 
Comment by Brett
2009-04-18 13:29:28

So, I have a friend who got a degree in Marketing at Texas Tech; after a few years of working at the container store, he decided he didn’t want to keep doing that; thus, he applied to some sort of ‘express’ Master’s Nursing Program at Columbia University. Somehow, he got accepted even though his GPA wasnt that great at Texas Tech.

The program had two phases; during the first year, you took a bunch of classes and interned at some hospital during the 2nd semester. At the end of the 1st year, they take some comprehensive test, and if they pass it, they move on to the 2nd phase of the program where they become a Nurse Practitioner.

Well, my friend did not pass the test, but he is still allowed to work as a nurse b/c of the coursework; he is just allowed to become a Nurse Practitioner. Anyways, he got tired of working a hospital for a year, and he found a job with a medical equipment company where he trains doctors in how to use their equipment. He just got a 105k job offer to transfer to California.

It pisses me off so much cause he’s not a smart guy, and somehow he’s getting a bigger paycheck than me b/c he got into ‘healthcare’. WTF??????

This country is so screwed up; it seems healthcare and finance are they way to go to make some money. Smart people going into other sciences and engineering are losers nowadays.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-18 14:14:03

Paging James, paging James. :)

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-04-18 14:44:49

(Giggle.)

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-04-18 14:21:17

Whoa, chill, he got offered six figs to go to Cali, and that kind of money doesn’t go very far there.

With any luck his dumbass self will blow his cash flow on “the car” and be eating ramen after he finds out what the rent is anywhere outside of the ghetto (or in it, really). Plus, taxes.

Actually, I totally feel your pain. No rewards for being smart and good at what you do these days. I see Europe (North & Central), India, and Japan walloping our asses in coming decades.

Grades weren’t good enough to join the “brain drain” to Europe; Japan and India not eager to let “furriners” in. Chinese desperate for a leg up (their academic traditions kind of impede science research and development, so they want to learn from the West) but who wants to live in a totalitarian country? I was thinking maybe a transportation grunt job in Western Europe would be nice (and achievable) but the missus wasn’t into it. So here we are. Still miss science.

PS–your friend is going to be sorry when that $105K job goes away in a few years due to Obamacare. Look, either the Obamacare system is going to control costs, which means all this alarming fat in healthcare gets trimmed, or it WILL collapse. So let’s all hope for the former. This “growth” industry is overdue for a good dose of chemo.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-04-18 15:30:38

After my hero is done this term, the only growth industry we will have is government bureacracy and their agents that enforce their draconian laws.

Comment by skroodle
2009-04-18 17:11:53

LOL - I forgot about all of the draconian laws passed in the last 107 days.

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Comment by exeter
2009-04-18 19:50:19

Skroodle,

He’s obsessed. BO is living in his head….. rent-free.

It’s gonna be a long 8 years for him. :-)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 15:16:59

Leaders
Housing
Building castles of sand

Apr 16th 2009
From The Economist print edition

Governments spent a fortune encouraging people to buy houses. That was a mistake they now risk repeating

BANKERS, frauds, predatory insurers: there has been a stampede to punish the villains of the global meltdown. Yet one culprit is not only rarely seen as an offender, but is also being cosseted and protected. Governments’ obsession about home ownership has contributed as much to the meltdown as any moustache-twirling financier.

The bust began in America’s housing market and soon spread to government-sponsored institutions created to increase home ownership, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Part of the problem came about because of policy. In most rich countries the state subsidises private housing. Some places (America, Ireland and Spain) give tax relief on mortgage-interest payments. Others, such as Britain, eliminate or lower the tax on capital gains from sales of someone’s main house. Still others use state-backed outfits to direct credit to housing or to make it easier for first-time buyers or the poor to buy their own homes. Subsidies are not to blame for everything—the housing bubble affected a range of markets regardless of how much they were subsidised—but the distortions aggravated the boom and bust by making housing artificially attractive.

Battering-ram required

In their efforts to stem the financial crisis, governments have thrown money at everything, including housing. Some of this is justified, but they are making their ultimate task harder. The state should in the medium term be aiming to slash subsidies for housing. That means, in America, cutting the size of the loan on which people can deduct mortgage interest from $1m now to, say, $300,000 and ideally to zero. There is no argument for a tax break worth, in practice, ten times as much to the rich as to the poor. Countries should start phasing out the unlimited capital-gains tax advantages given to houses—which people treat partly as an investment. And any government weighing whether to create institutions to boost home-ownership should take note of the disasters elsewhere.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 15:20:45

There is no argument for a tax break worth, in practice, ten times as much to the rich as to the poor.

Since rich folks fund Congressional campaigns, and Congressmen vote for housing subsidies, I am not expecting this hefty welfare payment to the wealthy to end any time soon.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 18:19:05

It is pretty ironic to me to see a Democratic Congress and executive branch (and their minions at the Fed) working so hard behind the curtain on measures to prop up the value of housing. This can only be construed as a stealthy attempt to implicitly transfer wealth from the younger generation and the renter class to the older, wealthier Owner Society class. The biggest winners in this reverse-Robin Hood stealthy wealth transfer scheme are the owners of the biggest houses. And the biggest losers are the cities, who lose access to the potential vibrant young work force which is still priced out of areas formerly known as “a bit frothy” by high housing prices.

Comment by vozworth
2009-04-18 19:21:45

get stucco,

sorry to intrude, but will you teach me the < strikethrough</

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Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 06:01:15

just write “strike”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 06:08:31

“less than sign”strike”greater than sign” Write whatever you want struck here “less than sign”/strike”greater than sign”

Replace “less than sign” with the left angle bracket symbol and “greater than sign” with the right angle bracket symbol and you’ve got it.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-19 09:12:30

If you type: <strike>hello</strike> cello

you will get: hello cello

 
Comment by vozworth
2009-04-19 18:22:05

interludes are getting shorter for me…I look back often. what do we need for the future?

 
 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-04-18 20:22:33

I see no irony in this, Professor. None at all.

Blue states have much wealthier populations than red states.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 21:04:10

The only irony I see is that D-rats love to pose as the champions of the downtrodden, when in fact their housing policies probably funnel as much wealth into the upper echelon of the wealth distribution as any R-can tax cut ever did.

Other than that, I see no irony, either.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-04-19 00:41:30

Well said, PB.

I’ve sent a few letters and faxes to Feinstein and Boxer asking them why they are so opposed to affordable housing.

Never got a response, naturally.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-04-19 18:29:16

Precisely my point. I agree with both of you.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 21:08:47

APPLES AND ORANGES
Let’s not Take Another Bubble Bath

History repeats itself, but not without a few wrinkles. We make the connections, then we pick them apart.
By Barrett Sheridan | NEWSWEEK
Published Apr 18, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Apr 27, 2009

The Comparison

Talk of the housing boom and bust often leads to our previous great collective mania, the dotcom bubble. Even Warren Buffett mentions them in the same breath. When history books are written, they “will surely speak of the Internet bubble of the late 1990s and the housing bubble of the early 2000s,” the Sage of Omaha wrote this year.

Why It Works

Government lent a helping hand: a sales-tax moratorium spurred the Web economy, and low interest rates encouraged home purchases. Both busts sent stocks tumbling by more than 30 percent, and the real economy sank into recession. In the aftermath, corruption became apparent: Bernie Madoff follows in the footsteps of Enron’s Ken Lay.

Why It Doesn’t

Magnitude. Today’s bubble inflated not just stocks but bonds and derivatives. Plus, this recession will be uglier: unemployment, which peaked at 6.3 percent last time, could hit 10 percent. And the dotcom bust left behind useful infrastructure, like broadband cable lines. This time? Empty McMansions and toxic assets.

It was all part of the same credit bubble, IMO, and the Fed is working ever so hard to reflate it; never mind the gaping hole blown into the bubble’s epidermis by last fall’s Wall Street collapse.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 21:15:18

The bursting housing bubble has inspired a whole generation of writers to wax eloquent about the bad policies that spawned it. It must take a concerted effort for the Fed’s leadership to ignore the plethora of sagacious postmortem analysis that the bubble’s collapse is generating.

The Housing Crisis and Our National Attitudes Towards Saving
Rob Shapiro

Rob Shapiro is Chair of NDN’s Globalization Initiative and Former Under Secretary of Commerce for Economic Affairs
Posted April 17, 2009 | 11:33 AM (EST)

Read More: Economy, Great Recession, Housing, Millennial Generation, Politics News

One way to glimpse how these tough times may affect our national psychology is to understand the forces that make times so tough. We’ll start today with an aspect close to people’s sense of themselves: their homes, or more generally, housing. We’ve all now lived through an historic housing bubble which, to begin, was very different socially from most bubbles in history: Unlike tulips, the South Seas, the 1920s stock market or other famous bubbles, this one was not primarily the business of speculators and affluent people. Nearly 70 percent of Americans own their houses, including most middle-class people as well as a broad swath of moderate and even low-income families. So, this bubble’s impact is being felt very broadly. That should be no surprise, since we give home purchases super-sized tax breaks and regulatory subsidies.

The irony is that while we go out of our way to encourage Americans to put their savings in this basket, in the form of home equity, we also encourage them to keep those savings small. First, we provide a large mortgage deduction which encourages people to buy houses — and to buy way above what they could afford, but for that deduction. That’s one reason why housing prices generally trend upwards. But the way we provide the deduction actually cuts against saving much, since the deduction isn’t for what we “save” by owning our houses — there’s no tax break for the downpayment, for example. Instead, it effectively encourages people to save relatively little, since they get to deduct only the interest on the mortgage loan, which represents what they don’t own or “save.” The natural result is that most people borrow 90 or 95 percent of the value of their house — just as Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers did. We also encourage people to keep their “savings” in housing small, by providing tax breaks for them to pull out the equity in their houses in the form of tax-preferred refinancing and home equity loans.

The result is that large numbers of people end up saving relatively little by owning their houses — and that’s especially the case when a housing bubble creates an illusion of significant savings. Federal Reserve data show that people’s home equity, or what they “save” through their homeownership, as a share of the value of their homes, has been generally falling for 60 years — which happens to be the time period since we enacted the major tax preferences for housing. Moreover, since 1985, that share has fallen from nearly 70 percent to 43 percent. Strikingly, this share remained stable during most of the bubble — because as housing prices rose, people withdrew more and more of what they had “saved” as equity. And in the two years since the bubble first burst, home-equity savings has fallen by about one-third, from 60 percent to 43 percent.

Today, an estimated 12 million people are under water with their mortgages. Since they owe more than their houses are worth, the bursting bubble wiped out their life savings. Moreover, the data which show that people’s home equity is still equal to 43 percent of the value of their homes combines two very different groups of people: Nearly half of homeowners own their houses free and clear (mainly older people), while the other half has modest or little equity.

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 06:04:38

Wow. Thanks for the depressing insights, Prof.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 06:15:15

“Rob Shapiro is Chair of NDN’s Globalization Initiative and Former Under Secretary of Commerce for Economic Affairs”

It is funny that you found Shapiro’s commentary depressing when I found it refreshingly honest compared to the steady stream of economic propaganda we get out of certain other corners of the Washington establishment.

Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 07:32:40

Just miserable thinking about how the indebtedness and destruction of the middle class means not only social ills but no growth … and I’m still young. Deregulation started when I was a baby; now I have to live out the consequences.

Why is my only shot at solvency now a mad obsession with the financial markets, rather than hard work, care, and insight? Something is terribly wrong with this picture.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 07:41:58

“Why is my only shot at solvency now a mad obsession with the financial markets, rather than hard work, care, and insight? Something is terribly wrong with this picture.”

Anything that cannot go on forever will stop.

– Herbert Stein –

I suggest, as Ben Jones has often also suggested, that you prepare for a future when hard work, care and insight are more useful survival skills than the ability to gamble with other people’s money with a guaranteed bailout in case the bet is a loser.

 
 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-04-19 13:04:11

“because as housing prices rose, people withdrew more and more of what they had “saved” as equity. And in the two years since the bubble first burst, home-equity savings has fallen by about one-third, from 60 percent to 43 percent.”

And now the treasury is the new borrower in town hoping to make up for the flat broke Home owner

This won’t end well

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-18 21:22:18

Honk if we are paying your mortgage.

Bill Would Bring Relief for Homeowners
By Laura Cohn
Kiplinger’s Personal Finance
Sunday, April 19, 2009

If you’re considering filing for personal bankruptcy because you’re having trouble making the mortgage payments on your primary residence, keep an eye on the so-called “cramdown” bill. The measure, which is part of President Obama’s housing plan and is making its way through Congress, would allow bankruptcy judges in Chapter 13 proceedings to reset the terms of certain mortgages so that more homeowners can keep their homes.

The move would be a big change. At the moment, a Chapter 13 filing stops the foreclosure process and gives homeowners time to restructure their payments with their lender. But as the law currently stands, you don’t have the ability to alter the terms of your loan.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-04-19 06:55:06

Okay, I know it’s bad form to come back here and comment on old Bits Buckets…

But I couldn’t let the comment pass that Amtrak was more expensive than air travel.

Yes, there is the high ticket price (hint: it isn’t subsidized, esp. in NE corridor), but:

Airlines benefit from generous subsidization in that the terminals (airports) are built with billions in local and national gov’t funds.

Whereas Amtrak not only owns its stations, it must pay property tax on them!

Amtrak was saddled with heavy debt in the last decade which has crimped its operations because of the high-speed rail debacle. Congress mandated the change, then failed to follow through on loaning money for land swaps in CT and RI (very expensive marshes, apparently), and, worse, they got Bombardier installed as the contractor, even though they had an inferior and more expensive product (sound familiar?). Even so, the NEC line’s “Acela” train has slaughtered ticket sales on those once-profitable NY/BOS/WAS “shuttle” jumps.

Run before crawl, yes… we need double-tracking, more trips in some regions (SE is a joke–can go JAX to Charleston, but not back because single return trip leaves at 4:50AM), and REGIONAL high(er) speed rail, around metro hubs. It took decades for France to complete TGV system, but once running they decided to move away from air subsidies.

BNSF was announcing a massive project in the early 2000’s to disentangle passenger and freight lines in Chicago. It was a public-private project that was supposed to cost $9B (and, they hoped, halve or more their time moving freight through the Chicago terminal). Weren’t they full speed ahead on that? What happened?

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-04-19 19:37:02

This so called “subsidy” to aviation is because people WANT to have airline service to their local airport. In fact, most government entities own the airport and facilities, because they don’t want that property sitting unused, if the current tenant goes bankrupt/out of business.

I really don’t understand why the railroad folks keep flogging this dead horse. If nothing else, most of this so called “subsidy” the airlines get is spent in the good old USA……on the other hand, most of the money for high speed rail trainsets would go overseas. Nobody designs or builds this stuff here anymore. (Even if they were “manufactured” or “assembled” over here, all the high-paying jobs (engineering, design, high dollar subassemblies) would not be done here.

And…..unless you are planning on building ALL NEW lines (with all the expense/environmental studies/NIMBY fights that go with it) you are going to have to reach some kind of accomodation with the privately owned freight railroads……..and they aren’t about to pay for super-elevation of main lines, just to run a couple of Amtrak trains a day.

And don’t even get started about the Giant Charlie-Foxtrot that would ensue when the TSA decided they needed to ensure an “equivalent level of security” on passenger rail

Everybody thinks that we need “High Speed Rail” like the Euros do……..but nobody takes into account the fact that the major cities in Europe are a LOT CLOSER TOGETHER than the major cities in the US.

I’m all for rail travel (at whatever speed is deemed efficient) where it makes sense. The trouble is, that the government is involved in shelling out this “stimulus”, so common sense will be thrown right out the window.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 06:55:43

Wall Street Journal
* APRIL 18, 2009, 10:49 A.M. ET
UPDATE: Ex-Fed Chmn Volcker: US Faces ‘Long Slog’ To Recovery
By Brian Blackstone
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NASHVILLE (Dow Jones)–Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker on Saturday warned that while the severity of the recession may be waning, the U.S. faces a “long slog” toward recovery.

Volcker also said that the Fed’s recent interventions into credit markets will inevitably lead to a review of the Federal Reserve Act, and urged patience in addressing financial regulation.

In comments to a Vanderbilt University conference honoring the 90th birthday of Dewey Daane, who served as a Fed governor in the 1960s and early 1970s, Volcker said that while the current downturn isn’t like the Great Depression of the 1930s, “we’re in a Great Recession for sure.”

“It does look like rather a long slog in terms of recovery…though the rate of decline is going to slow,” Volcker said.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 07:00:24

Green swimming pools FOR EVERYONE!!!!

Foreclosures leading to green pools
by Alyson Zepeda/Cronkite News Service (April 18th, 2009 @ 12:01pm)

YUMA, Ariz. - Joey Martinez steps around an overgrown bougainvillea bush to scoop a cupful of water from a green swimming pool. Several dozen mosquito larvae squirming inside suggest a job well done.

“When I first showed up here two weeks ago, this dipper would have had 10 times as many larvae in there,” said Martinez, a vector control specialist with the Yuma County Department of Public Health.

The light oil Martinez spread over the top of the pool suffocated most of the bugs, while the growth inhibitor he added to the water will ensure that survivors will be too crippled to live long, let alone bite people and potentially spread the West Nile virus.

Micki Bowman called the county after noticing insects coming from this vacant home next door. A look over the fence showed that the pool had turned black, a problem she blamed on those who foreclosed on the property.

“It just isn’t fair,” she said. “If they’re going to take away somebody’s home I think they should come and maintain it until they can sell it again.”

Yuma County’s three-person vector control staff is always busy at this time of year dealing with mosquitoes where they traditionally breed. But the foreclosure crisis also has officials here and elsewhere scrambling to deal with water in swimming pools, tires, trash cans and other items at vacant homes.

We never really had as many pools that were turning green,” said Brian O’Green, environmental health manager for the Yuma County Department of Public Health. “With the economy, the numbers have increased dramatically in the last couple years.

The problem is especially acute in areas where pools are common, said Craig Levy, director of the Arizona Department of Health Services’ vector-borne disease program.

“I think anyplace where you have a lot of pools it is a problem, and I think that does mean that there needs to be a shift in strategy and resources in dealing with them,” he said.

Maricopa County’s population, pools and foreclosures make it the state’s hotspot for green pools. Officials there have received 600 more complaints than they’d received at this point last year.

Not only are we getting new vacant homes, we are going back to vacant homes that we treated last year,” said David Guerrieri, the county’s enforcement supervisor for vector control.

Comment by Reuven
2009-04-19 09:26:24

“It just isn’t fair,” she said. “If they’re going to take away somebody’s home I think they should come and maintain it until they can sell it again.”

Every day, HBB is good for a spit-take! This was the cause of today’s.

(Of course, the banks should maintain the homes, but you can hardly call repossession “taking away somebody’s home”)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 07:05:09

It looks like deja vu all over again.

Wall Street Journal
* REVIEW & OUTLOOK
* APRIL 18, 2009

‘The Largest Failure’
J.P. Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon on the lessons of Fan and Fred.

‘Perhaps the largest regulatory failure of all time.” That’s how J.P. Morgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon describes the “inadequate regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac” in his annual shareholder letter, released this week.

Mr. Dimon devotes nearly a quarter of the 28-page letter to analyzing what caused the panic of 2008, and he hands out plenty of blame all around. But he calls it “amazing” that Fannie and Freddie were allowed to grow “larger than the Federal Reserve” thanks to Uncle Sam’s implicit guarantee of their obligations.

Mr. Dimon gets obviousness points for observing that Fan and Fred’s regulator “clearly was not up to the task,” but he’s too polite, or cautious, to say why: For years, the two mortgage giants twisted arms on Capitol Hill to keep that regulator weak, and Fan and Fred’s Beltway friends obliged. Today, of course, all those same enablers claim that they really did want better regulation, and it was the “other guys” who stood in the way. But that wasn’t the tune that Barney Frank, for example, was singing when he advocated “rolling the dice” on Fan and Fred’s “safety and soundness” in exchange for more money for affordable housing.

In his letter, Mr. Dimon raises a cry of “never again.” But as we move toward creating a “systemic risk regulator” that supposedly will bring to heel two dozen of the largest and most politically savvy financial institutions in the world, the lessons of Fannie, Freddie and their hapless regulator remain all too relevant.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 07:10:19

Observation:

The top economists in the US (the ones with immediate access the MSM bully pulpit) seem to be overly eager to spot signs of a recovery. They appear to be in a state of collective denial regarding the systemic collapse of the financial system which just occurred in the second half of last year, much as the American Illuminati was collectively oblivious to the onset of the Great Depression after the Wall Street collapse of 1929.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-04-19 09:18:08

Spring 2009 is a battleground. There’s a nexus between a new administration’s quest to have a historic first 100 days and the fact that this recession is on the verge of breaking through the postwar recessionary comfort zone.

Everything about the collective popular conscience is trained to expect a recovery right about now. Hence the mad dash for the green shoots.
The 24/7 media age raises the stakes even more.

I’m sure our new president wouldn’t mind a chance to clear some brush at the homestead right about now.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-04-19 07:19:25

The Edge vs the people of Malibu

U2 guitarist upsets his neighbours with plans to build five luxury homes.
By Guy Adams in Los Angeles

U2 guitarist The Edge has been labelled an environmental hypocrite over his plans to develop five mansions on a hillside overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

He is one of rock music’s most principled stars, nobly fighting poverty in Africa, lobbying for world peace, and saving the planet. But U2’s David Evans may have finally picked a fight too far: against America’s wealthiest Nimbys.

The guitarist, better known by his stage name The Edge, has upset residents of Malibu, the seaside city north of Los Angeles, by attempting to build five new luxury homes on a pristine hillside overlooking the Pacific Ocean.

Neighbours in Sierra Canyon, an exclusive district inhabited by the likes of Dick Van Dyke, Kelsey Grammer, and James Cameron, have launched a noisy campaign against the development, which they claim will “permanently scar” the landscape.

Evans, a supposed environmentalist, is accused of wanting to flatten the top of a mountain, put a road through slide-prone areas, and move 70,000 cubic yards of earth for construction of the “McMansions” which will boast views of the world-famous Surfrider Beach.

Critics claim his construction will harm wildlife, cause noise and dust pollution, add to land erosion and run a water pipe through pristine wilderness.

Comment by ahansen
2009-04-19 11:16:58

And what, pray tell, is he planning to use for water?
Sierra Canyon was ruined when they ran out Pygmytown back in the ’90’s. They deserve what they get.
(Sorry Dickie.)

 
Comment by Blano
2009-04-19 16:24:13

“The Edge”????

As Homer Simpson would say, “what kind of stupid weiner name is that?”

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-04-19 18:42:22

LMAO! So, now it’s the “established” environmentalists (who already have theirs and want to keep others out) AGAINST the “new age” environmentalists who are desparate to live the good life, too.

Too bad The Edge didn’t capitalize (pun intended) upon his Environmentalist Of The World status some years ago. You snooze, you loose. You shoulda built or bought your five mansions years ago - like Bruce Springsteen did.

And good luck crashlanding in Boulder, too, dear Edge. The environmentalists there have also banned newcomer environmentalists, too.

Egad! What’s a pompass @ss celebrity to do? Own ONE house in Albuquerque?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 07:33:54

Today’s SD Union-Tribune shows the March DataQuick numbers for San Diego. However, they no longer are showing the full breakout of used single family homes and condo sales. I am not sure whether this is to hide the ongoing severe price declines in used single family homes, or because they can no longer afford the print space.

No matter — the DataQuick web site gives the full details. Here is a summary of single family home sales, median prices and year-over-year price changes by area of San Diego:

Region / Sales / Median Sale Price / Year-over-year Price Change
Central San Diego 458 $300,000 -30.1%
East County 303 $279,500 -26.0%
North County Inland 561 $330,000 -22.2%
North County Coast 274 $375,000 -27.2%
South County 323 $310,000 -21.8%

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 07:52:06

What happened to all the people who used to say “California real estate always goes up”? I am wondering if this breed has gone extinct, or are they just hibernating?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-04-19 08:59:13

This is just “temporary”. :-D

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 11:56:47

I note that circa 2005, you could not find a single family residence anywhere in San Diego for under $400,000, and that included the areas where nobody wanted to live. Now it looks like the median sale price is under $400,000 almost everywhere. Invest now, or be priced out forever!!!!

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-04-19 11:35:46

Voz,

Saw you posting in American Visionaries Part 4:

“I hate to be the one to say it, but my days here are numbered. I have read, enjoyed, and absolutely enjoyed the past 4 years of reading the blog. I may not come around as often, but I’m calling the bottom of price and interest rates for residential.

180 days….then Im gone… thanks man. Winter aught nine, the bottom. sit on the fence at your own peril. I suspect though you may have yerself a couple of “bank book REO’s in the headlights””

Why are you calling a bottom. What is it you see?

Comment by vozworth
2009-04-19 18:17:02

We all have different lives, time horizons, prospects, love, education….Im just callin someone is gonna give up.

one from all, all from one?

We are almost there. If you think you get to the end of yourself, you are almost already there.

adam smith book wealth of nations Section four page 8, column? “a dwelling unit has no cough sputter to the inhabitants”

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-04-19 13:07:05

April 17 (Bloomberg) — Bank-regulating lawmakers in swing districts are reaping increased campaign contributions from firms most affected by their actions, government filings show.

New members, Republican and Democratic, are finding it is easier to take in donations from finance, insurance and real- estate political action committees now that they are incumbents. Those industries gave at least $483,203 to the 14 freshmen on the House Financial Services Committee in the first quarter, according to reports filed with the Federal Election Commission this week. That’s more than three-quarters of the $632,237 the members collected from the industry during their campaigns.

Party leaders assigned 11 of the 24 freshmen who won their seats by the narrowest margins to the financial services panel. Now, as they consider the broadest rewrite of financial rules in decades, those members are getting money from donors such as the American Bankers Association, Citigroup Inc. and Visa Inc.

Sounds like business as usual.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Comment by CA renter
2009-04-20 02:53:47

Party leaders assigned 11 of the 24 freshmen who won their seats by the narrowest margins to the financial services panel. Now, as they consider the broadest rewrite of financial rules in decades, those members are getting money from donors such as the American Bankers Association, Citigroup Inc. and Visa Inc.
———————

That’s pretty blatant. Wow. :(

 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-04-19 13:10:44

Have any noticed the ammo shortage ? Try finding 9mm all gone.

Comment by Carlos Cisco
2009-04-19 17:27:28

Plenty at gun show today in Ohio: prices up at least 50 percent at some dealers, though. Still, people buying like crazy and was probably all sold out by noon. Heard one dealer tell another that he made so much on his ammo sales that he wont have to go back to his day job. No, read ZERO .380 ammo and very little if any .45 or .380. Plenty of .223 and .50…..if youve got the money.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-04-19 13:11:37

White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel cited first-quarter reports from major banks showing they are making money as an encouraging sign. “But that doesn’t take away that some are going to need resources. We believe we have those resources available in the government as the final backstop to make sure that the 19 are financially viable and effective,” he said

There making money but we will have to of course give them more??????????????????????????????

Comment by Blano
2009-04-19 16:21:16

Who are the “19″?? And that means 19 are too big to fail??

Great.

Comment by measton
2009-04-19 18:43:59

19 big banks I think

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 14:21:33

The Wall Street Journal is turning into an NAR mouthpiece these days. Don’t believe them. There is no urgency to buy a home when prices are dropping at over a 20 percent year-over-year rate, and no reason to not wait until the housing market bottoms out before even thinking about buying a home.

I fully intend to sit on the sidelines until a bottom forms. I expect to hear many people saying that real estate is the worst possible investment before I even think about buying anything. And even at that point, I will think very hard and only act with great reluctance!

The Economist has a couple of articles in the current edition arguing about what a stupid idea it is to own a home, and I expect this confered wisdom to trickle down to the sheeple some time over the next twelve months. I hope to be the first one to post an article here that claims real estate is the worst possible investment. This is likely to show up first in either the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times.

Wall Street Journal
* REAL ESTATE
* APRIL 18, 2009, 10:56 P.M. ET

Getting Going
Why Houses Look Better and Better
By DAVE KANSAS

Some people think it’s a good time to buy a house. Is it?

Don’t Hunt for the Bottom

Some prospective homebuyers naturally want to know when prices will actually hit bottom. Pinpointing a bottom in home prices, however, is very difficult, akin to picking the bottom in the stock market. But data and research indicate we’re getting close.

A recent report from Banc of America Securities-Merrill Lynch argues that the housing market could start to demonstrate modest growth and improvement later this year. This forecast relies on long-term mortgage rates continuing to decline. It also notes that a weak job market will hamper growth in housing.

Mortgage rates are a key element to buying a home since lower rates make it cheaper to finance your home purchase. Last week, Freddie Mac 30-year mortgage rates ticked up to 4.87%. Merrill Lynch predicts that the Federal Reserve, through the purchase of long-term Treasurys and other tactics, will drive 30-year mortgage rates to 4.2% by year end.

If you believe now is a good time to buy a home and your lifestyle and budget support such a choice, there are a few strategies to consider in order to get the best price.

Know what you want. This requires doing the requisite amount of research so you know exactly what you want and what you can afford. Once that’s done, being ready to buy quickly can help you drive a good hard bargain.

Be ready to pounce. Cash, of course, is king. If you can write a check for a home, you can drive a very tough bargain in a world of eager sellers. Not everyone has that kind of kitty, so the next best thing is having a pre-approved mortgage. Many sellers are looking to close a deal smoothly and quickly, so having everything lined up ahead of time can strengthen your negotiating position.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-04-19 16:21:46

I have some suggested conditions for banks that want to pay back TARP monies early. How about if they are required to repay all forms of government largess since the onset of the crisis, including (1) AIG bailout jackpot winnings and (2) the value of the below-market interest rate subsidies on LAF, TALF, BLAF and BARF loans from the Fed?

Financial Times
US to put conditions on Tarp repayment
By Krishna Guha and Daniel Dombey in Washington
Published: April 19 2009 23:31 | Last updated: April 19 2009 23:31

Strong banks will be allowed to repay bail-out funds they received from the US government but only if such a move passes a test to determine whether it is in the national economic interest, a senior administration official has told the Financial Times.

“Our general objective is going to be what is good for the system,” the senior official said. “We want the system to have enough capital.”

 
Comment by john
2009-04-19 20:55:45

If we are talking about retracting the AIG payouts, which for all intents and purposes were insurance policies on CDO packages, then we should also get the Katrina monies back that the government spent there.

What I don’t get is that how can banks be taking loses on mortgages. Didn’t they all (at least the 0 downs) have mortgage insurance?

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-04-20 01:01:02

“What I don’t get is that how can banks be taking loses on mortgages. Didn’t they all (at least the 0 downs) have mortgage insurance?”

Nope! Much of the “innovation” in mortgages during the boom ended up replacing traditional mortgage insurance. When an FB got an 80/20 combo, the 80 didn’t require PMI because they were only loaning at 80% LTV (e.g. the cut-off LTV for requiring PMI).

With no insurance, the banks are first in line to lose. And note that it’s the 20s that lose first and lose biggest—they lose 100% when the market is only down 20%, which, of course, if most of the country now.

 
 
Comment by Reuven
2009-04-20 03:51:34

The New York Times today ran an article about the letters the President receives. Apparently his aides select 10 a day for him to read.

One was about housing:


Some letters begin “I didn’t vote for you”; others end “May God bless.” One missive came in the form of baseboard molding, covered with $2.70 in stamps and a scrawl urging the president to “Fix housing 1st!” Heaps of letters offer advice on the best treats for the first dog, Bo, and people have sent in colorful dog sweaters.

I suppose by “Fix housing 1st” it meant either “Fix the PRICE of houses so I can get some money from my hare-brained investment” OR it simply meant “where’s my FREE house?”

 
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