Bits Bucket For April 21, 2009
Please visit the HBB Forum. Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.
The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
About Me
Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
To donate by mail, or to otherwise contact this blogger, please send emails to: thehousingbubble@gmail.com
PayPal is a secure online payment method which accepts ALL major credit cards.
Links
-
April 2024 M T W T F S S « Sep 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Photo Submission: hbbphotos@gmail.com
View the HBB Photo Gallery *updated 4/13/2008
Foxnews: For idiots, by idiots. Well… all news for that matter. No housing bubble realated comments come to mind yet.
And you feel that Fox is the only idiotic news source out there? What is your favorite source, so we’ll all be enlightened…?
As far as I’m concerned, they’re all idiots* - even the Daily Show ventured into that territory last week with their piece on the tax protests and assuming those protesting were all Republicans.
* Except for one source: this blog. But y’all knew that!
BBC sometimes gets it right. None can be trusted. I try to read between the lines but find Fox the most annoying background gibberish as I try to decipher.
“… I try to read between the lines …”
Between the lines is where the truth is hidden.
I’m convinced that an often overlooked issue in the navel gazing that occurs here and in the media over the roots of this Bubble debacle are in the flaws of our political process.
Specifically, I’m referring to the influence of lobbyists who not only advocated for decreasing regulation and emasculating the watchdogs when money flowed like cheap champagne, but bellied up to the Bailout Bar for outsized portions of TARP etc. when things were crashing all around them.
However, what government on earth is free of corrupt influence? Neither the dictatorships of the Middle East, the theocracies of the Himalayas, or the most democratic nations on Earth (I think that could include us) can be used as a model. O’s idea of a Washington free of lobbyist influence is a waste of time, pursuing ponies and rainbows.
The natural enemy of corruption is not the vetting process, but transparency. How many homoaners would be in trouble if strict transparency had been enforced, even at the grass roots level? Talk about reading between the lines…the only way to glimpse the truth is to go to the blogs and sift through (educated) rumor, innuendo and speculation.
The thinning ranks of newspaper and network journalists as paper after paper shuts down is a disturbing trend in this regard, even if they don’t always get it right. Uggh, the PTB looks out for so many idiotic special interests, who the f*#k looks out for the truth?
While I agree with many of your points, I would argue that transparency means nothing if people aren’t willing to educate themselves to figure out what the facts that are made transparently available actually _mean_.
I’m sure many of us have had the experience of sharing “facts” with others only to be ignored, or be countered with “well, XXX says something different”.
Transparency would be a good thing, but having transparency won’t come anywhere close to fixing our problems. People need to care, and to take action. Most people are just complacent and happy to remain ignorant, even if the truth is all around them.
The thinning ranks of newspaper and network journalists as paper after paper shuts down is a disturbing trend in this regard, even if they don’t always get it right.
It’s somewhat disturbing, but hopefully a new model will arise in the next few years — one that’s more responsive to the complexities of the modern world. One no longer beholden to the 20th century American ideal of objectivity in media, which was a false premise to begin with and became progressively more cumbersome in the face of modern PR, a 24-hour news cycle, and increasingly integrated corporate media structures.
I support a more fragmented, adversarial, combative press that wears its biases openly. That’s the model that blogs are pointing toward anyway. There are many talented reporters and editors out there who’ve been constrained by institutional issues built into the old model.
I’m with drumminj here. The internet alone has acted to increase transparency by making a great deal of additional information available to the average person. Problem is, very few people actually read or make use of that information. I’d argue this happens for a number of reasons:
1. Few people can be bothered to read anything anymore, so why would they read that stuff? (As an aside, I think it’s this “willful illiteracy” phenomenon that has done more to doom the newspaper industry than anything else.)
2. The volume and complexity of the available data forces the people that actually do care about it to educate themselves in order to understand it. Thus, most people either:
(a) wait for some biased source (usually a media outlet or the government) to sort through the data, pick out a few distorted points, and “tell all the truth but tell it slant”;
(b) read the data itself, fail to understand it adequately, and then communicate incorrect information to other people; or
(c) try to survey the information broadly while ignoring biased sources (which is especialyl difficult given that so many sources are basically wolves in sheep’s clothing)
“However, what government on earth is free of corrupt influence? Neither the dictatorships of the Middle East…”
I misread that as “the dictatorships of Middle Earth…” Hmmm… I guess Wormtongue would count as a corrupt influence? Was he perhaps an investment banker at one time? Was Saruman’s ultimate goal some sort of Ring of Power based real estate scam?
I’m sure this has been mentioned before (probably by aNYCdj), but I think the whole “anti-intellectualism” that’s prevalent in our culture is a bit of the problem, as well.
It’s funny how one is quickly labeled “tin-foil hat” for thinking the official story might be biased…or if one questions the motives of those in power. I think most people just don’t want to do their own thinking, as Julius says, and can’t handle the thought that those they expect to do the thinking for them aren’t above reproach.
I was very surprised the first time I went to a coffee shop down the street and there was a table full of “elderly” folks (60-70+) who were discussing the economy, housing stuff, etc. Clearly they were informed and were capable of individual thought. I can’t remember the last time I’ve overheard such a conversation by people my age (30-ish), other than those I’ve been involved in.
I agree that many people have information that they either ignore or misuse. However, transparency puts the onus of disclosure on the person who is given power. For public servants and publicly traded companies, I’d imagine a Bill of Rights that would include (but not limited to) the following:
No “secret” meetings, with the discussions in all meetings always subject to subpoena.
Attribution of all published claims and statements (both the writer and the source).
Commissions and fees be held in escrow until a reported result is verified by an independent entity or to the client or buyer’s satisfaction (the method previously agreed upon).
That claims always be subject to arbitration to avoid lawyer bullying, except in cases where fraud is alleged…then punitive damages should be outlined in a “prenup”
“Was Saruman’s ultimate goal some sort of Ring of Power based real estate scam?”
Duhhhh. Look what he did to Isengard. Think of the Orcs as developers and the Uruk-hai as real estate agents.
Considering the Supreme Court ruled in Faux News favor allowing them to flat out lie and call it news, I’ll pass on the We Distort You Comply channel.
Considering the NY Times has been the official propagandist mouthpiece for the DNC, UN, Daniel Ortega, Hugo Chavez, Mussolini, and Stalin over the decades; the conclusion that many Northeasterners are incapable of balanced political thought seems to be well founded.
But then, you already knew that.
Nice hobgoblins. Got any facts like the supreme court ruling in favor of FNC petition which allows them to “report” unsubstantiated facts and rumor as news?
Is anyone truly capable of perfectly balanced political thought?
I applaud a conscious effort to understand all sides, but we all have biases that make it an imperfect process.
I think it’s especially important to keep an eye on what’s being said in the media outlets that irritate or scare you…
What ever soap box they are on can be very informative.
Considering the NY Times has been the official propagandist mouthpiece for the DNC, UN, Daniel Ortega, Hugo Chavez, Mussolini, and Stalin over the decades
Huh?
You know, we have a baseline for discourse here that’s a little higher than most sites, politically inclined or not.
Take the blatantly hyperbolic hoohah somewhere else.
cobaltblue,
The same New York Times reporter David Barstow who reports revealed how some retired generals, working as radio and television analysts, had been co-opted by the Pentagon to make its case for the war in Iraq, and how many of them also had undisclosed ties to companies that benefited from policies they defended.
By whom were these “ties to companies” undisclosed and for whom did these deeply conflicted retired generals pose as “analysts”? ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN and Fox –the very companies that have simply suppressed the story from their viewers. They kept completely silent about Barstow’s story even though it sparked Congressional inquiries, vehement objections from the then-leading Democratic presidential candidates, and allegations that the Pentagon program violated legal prohibitions on domestic propaganda programs. The Pentagon’s secret collaboration with these “independent analysts” shaped multiple news stories from each of these outlets on a variety of critical topics. Most amazingly, many of them continue to employ as so called “independent analysts” the very retired generals at the heart of Barstow’s story, yet still refuse to inform their viewers about any part of this story.
Here’s the rest of the story:
http://tinyurl.com/crwve9
My polite suggestion would be, take the self-appointed enlightened and politically correct outlook over the cliff with the rest of the liberal lemmings that hold the NY Slimes in higher regard than direct, firsthand experience.
Let me be of assistance with the rewording cobaltblue. I am plagarizing what you just posted:
My polite suggestion would be, take the self-appointed enlightened and politically correct outlook over the cliff with the rest of the conservative lemmings that hold the Faux News in higher regard than direct, firsthand experience.
There much better.
Speaking of the New York Times, here is a nice little article that explains some of the dirty tricks that got the banks to their “higher than expected” earnings figures this week and last. I don’t have time to review the footnotes to the reports, but I like to know more than just that there were some “one time” items that caused a miracle to occur.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/21/business/21sorkin.html?em
Whether it’s Fox or the NY Times, who cares. They’re both essentially forms of entertainment thinly disguised as “news”.
The MSM’s real Achilles heel is the fact that its business model is supported by corporate advertising. When businesses pay money straight to the government, we call it “corruption” (the euphemism is “lobbying”, of course). But when businesses pay money to support “independent” media sources, it’s called “advertising”. Why is there a difference?
Hi SF Gal,
I hope when we disagree, it is because of our own personal, direct, firsthand experiences, and not because we heard it from either the NY Times or Fox News.
We can both agree, couldn’t we, not to be willing puppets for somebody else’s agenda?
I bid you peace.
CB
higher regard than direct, firsthand experience
You have “direct, firsthand experience” with decades of NYT propaganda on behalf of Daniel Ortega, Mussolini, and Stalin? That’s impressive.
Do tell.
Please be specific.
We breathlessly await your masterful unveiling of the seven-decades-plus Great Lemming Conspiracy.
I wager he’s barely old enough to buy a six pack. Such is typical of that inexperienced crowd.
Yes, Fox News leans right, but to parrot that while ignoring the left leaning of most other major news outfits seems absurd to me. And why should we be defending one direction of lean over the other when NEITHER side has our interests at heart - don’t be distracted by the puppets, people - watch the puppetmasters.
When both the left and right “forget” to mention something of great importance or “agree” on some scam, then you see what is really going on.
I wager he’s barely old enough to buy a six pack. Such is typical of that inexperienced crowd.
On the contrary, it sounds like Cobalt has done some groundbreaking PhD-level research on the subject.
I for one am excited to read his doubtlessly well-sourced findings, even if they forever change my opinion of the New York Times (and 20th century history, for that matter). In short, I’m prepared to have my little lemming mind blown.
Does someone have an example of FOX news breaking a big story that uncovered corruption in the GOP?
NYT has plenty of stories uncovering dirt on both sides. Just ask Eliot Spitzer.
As far as I have seen Fox news is opion and slanting news that’s already been reported, but prove me wrong with an example of investigative journalism during the Bush years.
Fox generally supports the GOP. This is what the GOP did the last time they were in power. From the Nation
Corrupting PBS. Tomlinson’s tenure at the CPB, which annually distributes $400 million in federal funding to broadcast outlets, was characterized by an assault on the news operations of the Public Broadcasting Service in general, and Moyers in particular, for airing dissenting voices and preparing investigative reports on the Administration. His goal was clearly to fire a shot across the bow of all public stations so managers would shy away from the sort of investigative journalism that might expose Bush Administration malfeasance. On November 15, on the heels of Tomlinson’s resignation, the CPB’s inspector general issued a sixty-seven-page report documenting Tomlinson’s repeated violations of the Public Broadcasting Act, CPB rules and the CPB code of ethics with his political meddling, though it stopped short of calling for prosecution, or of examining the link between Tomlinson’s actions and White House directives.
Faking TV News. Under Bush Administration directives, at least twenty federal agencies have produced and distributed scores, perhaps hundreds, of “video news segments” out of a $254 million slush fund. These bogus and deceptive stories have been broadcast on TV stations nationwide without any acknowledgment that they were prepared by the government rather than local journalists. The segments–which trumpet Administration “successes,” promote its controversial line on issues like Medicare reform and feature Americans “thanking” Bush–have been labeled “covert propaganda” by the Government Accountability Office.
Paying Off Pundits. The Administration has made under-the-table payments to at least three pundits to sing its praises, including Armstrong Williams, the conservative columnist who collected $240,000 from the Education Department and then cheered on the ill-conceived No Child Left Behind Act.
Turning Press Conferences Into Charades. Bush has all but avoided traditional press conferences, closing down a prime venue for holding the executive accountable. On those rare occasions when he deigned to meet reporters, presidential aides turned the press conferences into parodies by seating a friendly right-wing “journalist,” former male escort Jeff Gannon, amid the reporters and then steering questions to him when tough issues arose. They have effectively silenced serious questioners, like veteran journalist Helen Thomas, by refusing to have the President or his aides call on reporters who challenge them. And they have established a hierarchy for journalists seeking interviews with Administration officials, which favors networks that give the White House favorable coverage–as the frequent appearances by Bush and Dick Cheney on Fox News programs will attest.
Gutting the Freedom of Information Act. As Eric Alterman detailed in a May 9 report in these pages, the Administration has scrapped enforcement of the Freedom of Information Act and has made it harder for reporters to do their jobs by refusing to cooperate with even the most basic requests for comment and data from government agencies. This is part of a broader clampdown on access to information that has made it virtually impossible for journalists to cover vast areas of government activity.
Obscuring the Iraq War. In addition to setting up a system for embedding reporters covering the war–which denied Americans a full picture of what was happening during the invasion–the Defense Department has denied access to basic information regarding the war, from accurate casualty counts to images of flag-draped coffins of US dead to the Abu Ghraib torture photos.
Pushing Media Monopoly. The Administration continues to make common cause with the most powerful broadcast corporations in an effort to rewrite ownership laws in a manner that favors dramatic new conglomeratization and monopoly control of information. The Administration’s desired rules changes would strike a mortal blow to local journalism, as media “company towns” would be the order of the day. This cozy relationship between media owners and the White House (remember Viacom chair Sumner Redstone’s 2004 declaration that re-electing Bush would be “good for Viacom”?) puts additional pressure on journalists who know that when they displease the Administration they also displease their bosses.
Fox didn’t even report the rampant homosexuality and sexual predatory behavior of GOP members, adherents and mouthpieces…. even after other news organizations exposed them for the hypocrites they really are.
As far as NYT is concerned I have to say that I find them a lot more balanced that Fake News is. There are PLENTY of times I disagreed with them, and thought they were unfair to a Democrat. I also thought they were way too easy on Chimp and Company. So while I agree that the NYT leans left, it is totally unfair to call them propaganda.
Fox News is pure propaganda, and they know they are lying when they say the crap they say. The NYT is not like that. Flawed. Occasionally inaccurate. But not propaganda. They lean left, but they don’t totally cross the line.
I can say the same thing about PBS.
measton:
“Fox generally supports the GOP.”
—————————————————————
This can be nominated for an understatement of the year.
What a student of propaganda!
These I like, these I don’t!
Give me all the lies that fit my whims today!
Or at least seem politically correct to the gullible masses
Thats seems to sum up FNC’s dwindling viewership quite succinctly CB. Thank you.
Are you guys referring to the #1 rated (by far) cable news channel? Apparently, there are many others that do not share your viewpoint.
Again give me an example of FOX being the first to break a news story on GOP corruption. The NYT has done this many times for both parties.
#1 aye mate? CNN surpassed Foxnoise back in Q1 2008.
By far? Did you mean far behind? lmao.
News Hour on PBS. The real fair and balanced. At least as close as possible.
Yep, not perfect but very objective. You cannot tell which side PBS leans because they are pretty much right down the middle.
Bill Moyers “fair and balanced”? I don’t think so.
Bill Moyers is a Fox mouthpiece?
Hey Troll go home under your bridge.
pressboard has been around for quite awhile. How long have you been around sean?
Yes we all know CNN and the New York Times is the only source of truth in this country.
Sheesh.
I personally hate Fox News as well, and don’t think it’s a crime to say so. If people want to glean information from different sources that appeal to them, so what ?
Not a crime at all…it’s the blanket condemnation of a source one doesn’t agree with that I don’t care for.
Blano I knew you watched that crap. No other way you could be so confused. Quit pouring propaganda into your head and do some critical thought of your own.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste!
Understand, Fox News is propaganda. They suckered you into believing their lies. And they are lies. Step away from the punch bowl.
Having said that, I think the Dems are a totally pathetic party with the lone exception of Barack Obama!
One honest man!
I don’t have a problem with people seeking out their news or entertainment of choice.
I do object to the idea that the New York Times and Fox News are more than superficially equivalent, however.
Don’t like the NYT? No problem, I don’t always care for their writing or opinions, either. But let’s compare them to a more appropriate media voice — the Wall Street Journal or National Review, for example — two right-leaning institutions that I rarely agree with, but certainly hold their own against other influential media players. Fox News (and CNN, for that matter) simply aren’t in the same league with the NYT, WSJ, or National Review, but they aren’t playing the same game or courting the same audience, either.
BINGO
WSJ does produce investigative journalism.
CNN and New York Times are two COMPLETELY different sources Blano, NYT is the only national legit paper. Hell, the local city “Alternative” papers are way worse. Those are the worst of times, the best of times are blogs!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
“Only” “legit” paper??????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
What are you talking about? I, for one, tend to find the WSJ to be a better source of news than the NYT, and it’s certainly a “nationally legit” paper.
CNN blows. But they don’t blow as bad as Fox News.
Old story here but gov’t entities, active duty, reserve or retired military had there personel and/or interests represented at major news networks for years now.
CNN AND PSYOPS
Military personnel from the Fourth Psychological Operations Group based at Fort Bragg, in North Carolina, have until recently been working in CNN’s hq in Atlanta
http://www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html
Well, the local FOX station has a rather buxom traffic girl, so that’s a plus, but I do have a problem with FOX (again the local news) in that they treated a local sleaze-bag mortgage dealer as the “expert” in the real estate market. This is like asking a used car dealer to give honest advice on car ownership, or like asking Turbo-Taxcheat Timmy to do your taxes.
The local broker (E-mortgage solutions, may they rot forever), would happily get up on the “news” hour and give out great advice such as: put the smallest down payment possible on a house (because otherwise your money is “locked up” in it), buy as many houses as possible by any means, get toxic loans, take all the money out of your house and put it into the stock market, etc. And the stupid “newsperson” would just nod, agree, and toss out softball questions that could all be answered with: “real estate only goes up!” and “it’s different here!”
I don’t like Fox because they are blatantly partisan. Actually I don’t care for partisans in either side. I remember watching Sean Hannity show such outrage over the Bosnian war, and our involvement in it. The entire world community was united, but he had a big problem with it. But once Bush came around he changed his tune fast. I also thought the entire Terri Schiavo firestorm they created was a disgrace. Fox News pretty much wrecked this country. If you have been following their advice the last 15 years you can see the damage their insanity brought upon the nation.
Fox is right-wing propaganda. And honestly, it is pretty lousy propaganda at that. It is obvious to most.
Now, who do I like? Anyone that speaks truth to power, and has objectivity. The list is short. I like Bill Maher. I like Paul Krugman. I like Jim Rogers. I like Barack Obama. These are people’s opinions that I value. I definitely don’t agree with them on everything, but I respect their point of view because I know it is a reasoned and honest view.
And of course, I value most of the opinions on this board, Ben included!
“I don’t like Fox because they are blatantly partisan.”
Well, I don’t like MSNBC and the NY Times,
because they are blatantly partisan.
But the difference is…I can point to clear examples of when Fox was blatantly partisan, and I can show examples of the NYT being fair and balanced.
You, on the other hand, cannot. You cannot prove that the NYT or MSNBC are blatantly partisan, because on too many occasions they have slammed Dems. Countless times! You cannot come up with any examples of Fox going after the Bush administration either. Nope, they were cheerleading EVERYTHING, including…torture. I do believe called people kooks that said there was a housing bubble also. Yep, I remember Peter Schiff being ridiculed by the guys at Fox.
BTW, let me know when Fox invites Bernie Goldberg back to Fox. He slammed Sean Insanity on the air for going after Obama unfairly, and my guess is he won’t be coming back.
Fair and Balanced…My Ass. Pure propaganda.
Walter Duranty - enough said?
During the 1930s, as Josef Stalin was establishing communism in the U.S.S.R., the Times’ man in the Soviet Union was Walter Duranty, who openly sympathized with Stalin and communism. (Duranty was hardly unusual in that regard, as numerous intellectuals, clergymen, politicians, and union leaders also embraced the Russian “alternative.” In fact, Duranty’s reporting from the U.S.S.R. as Stalin was consolidating his first Five Year Plan was considered so informative and important that the reporter was awarded the 1932 Pulitzer Prize for Correspondence. Duranty’s picture still hangs in the lobby of the Times building, as the newspaper proudly displays him among its many other Pulitzer Prize winners.
The only problem is that Duranty wrote nothing but lies, and it is even more apparent that the leadership of the Times had been informed on numerous occasions that Duranty was painting a false picture of Stalin’s actions. While Duranty told the readers of the Times that the Five Year Plan was successfully transforming production in the U.S.S.R. and giving the citizens of that nation an ever-improving standard of living, the opposite was actually true.
Many readers of LRC are very familiar with the human catastrophe that accompanied Stalin’s first Five Year Plan, the Ukraine Famines of the early 1930s being the worst of the dictator’s man-made tragedies. In order to destroy any Ukrainian resistance to Stalin’s rule, the dictator ordered much of the grain harvests of that area confiscated, the result being death by starvation of as many as 10 million people.
The sympathetic western press presented the famine in one of two ways. The first was to deny altogether that famine was even occurring, which is the direction taken by the New York Times and many British newspapers. The second was to claim that if famine existed, it was because of bad weather, which is refuted by the facts.
Through his dispatches, Duranty denied time and again that famine existed at all in the Ukraine, despite the fact that Duranty himself was the source of the 10 million estimate. In other words, even though his stories denied that famine existed at all in the U.S.S.R., Duranty knew all along that he was writing lies.
Why do apologist clowns seem to come out of the woodwork on these topics?
Maybe it’s because in reality, there is only one or two willing to stand by the worn out failed ideology but want to give the impression there is more of them.
I’d almost like to see the American media outlets shelve this “fair and unbiased” nonsense and approach news the way European newspapers do; i.e., admit which side you’re going to support and then go from there. Then, if/when the reader wants to get a broad understanding of some topic he or she simply reads several newspapers and pieces it together himself. Some American newspapers and magazines do this (Mother Jones and Forbes come to mind), and their resulting product is better IMHO.
Google News. It doesn’t get any more fair and balanced than this.
Thank god because my news bookmarks have gotten out of control.
http://news.google.com/
Enough already!!!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/30320178
Is this what the administration looks like when it “gets tough” on issues.
[Hugo Chavez must be shaking in his boots right now.]
Did I read this right? Obama an honest man. BS.
Lets see, he stated in his campaign speeches, not one new dime of taxes for those making under 250k. Lied, the Schip tobacco tax, basically a tax on lower incomes, was the first bill he signed.
Iraq. he will bring home the troops and end this war in 16 months. the war goes on, based upon the Bush plan.
Troops to be there at least another 2 years.
He hires Geitner ( Eddie Haskell) for Treasury. Would you hire a guy to handle millions, who cant file an accurate tax return?
He again…no new taxes on those making less than 250k…well how about the increased costs on consumers of cap and trade.
he gives us all a $7.50 a week tax reduction, but lets the states raise taxes out of sight.
He basically bankrupted our children and grandchildren and their grandchildren.
He says no new gun control, but his Illinois counterpart, initiates a bill, HR45, which really restricts gun ownership.
He lies to the US population on gun smuggling to Mexico. The guns in mexico are fully automatic assault weapons and M60 machine guns, the US sold to South American Countries thru
international weapons traders.
Nah, he doesn’t lie.
Care to give us a one-line summary?
More of your money going to keep bankrupt companies alive.
Thanks! It’s frustrating when someone says “read this” and puts a link. It could be anything from politics to the Yankees to some stock trade or other.
How about a quote from Pogo?
Sometimes you gotta use a calendar AND a chart. After the options expired, GDP, Chrysler, Stress, Selling..? Watching the 20 day EMA.
Watching the 20 day EMA of what??
Major indexes.
“Separately, the United Auto Workers (UAW) union urged its members to lobby the White House by phone or email to ensure that workers and retirees are treated fairly in negotiations at both companies on new concessions, which are considered vital for the automakers’ to survive.”
Vital for the automakers or the UAW to survive?
What’s really galling is that across this country young people working jobs with low wages and hardly, if any, benefits remain programmed to buy a car before investing in the themselves. Largely a result of decades of programming by companies like these two.
Does a cahsier at a big box store even realize where their monthly payments are going?
Contrary to popular belief, you NEED a car in this country.
BTW, NYC is NOT the entire country. Sorry New Yorkers.
Vital for the UAW retirees to survive. If their medical is eliminated, then they won’t be drawing pensions for quite as long.
Actually, the way I see it, there is no such thing as a contract anymore. Legal or otherwise.
I vote that anyone receiving their retirement from a 401k, or a former 401k is now subject to a 90% income tax. Apparantly we can always change the rules with no consequences.
It’s always been this way.
There’s no way they can pay this back. Through our taxes, we will now have car payments but no car. Like some farmers getting paid to not grow crops.
I’ve got a perfectly good shredder in my office that could take care of that money just as effectively.
Regarding the Jefferson quote in yesterday’s bucket: While the quote accurately represents Jefferson’s expressions about banks, the quote is spurious.
Sorry for the misquote. The folks at snopes dot com have researched this quite carefully, and served up the following authentic quote regarding Jefferson’s views on banks:
“And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”
(Closing sentence from Jefferson’s 28 May 1816 letter to John Taylor)
The worst of both; we swindle futurity by borrowing money to support a standing army.
PBear & Cougar…Thanks for your response post yesterday in Bits…
Maybe it was George Jefferson, not Thomas.
According to Snopes dot com, this is an example of a quote attributed to a famous dead person which has befuddled numerous historians who tried to document it.
Maybe it was Barney Frank in a delusional moment of clarity.
Or in a rare moment of seeing the obvious.
“Hemp is of first necessity to the wealth & protection of the country.” - Thomas Jefferson.
It makes the best rope. The French and I prefer another method.
Prices plummeting in the Coronado (Phoenix) historic district, named 7th most overpriced neighborhood by Forbes last year.
http://current.com/items/89161816_forbes-most-overpriced-zip-codes.htm
Houses listed 50%-60% off peak and still languish unsold for months.
Number five on the “most overpriced” list:
5. Missions Hills, San Diego, California 92103
Mission Hills is a beautiful neighborhood, sitting high on a hill above Old Town San Diego, situated within fifteen minutes of Balboa Park, Petco Park, Copley Symphony Hall and the airport, and views of the San Diego harbor that are hard to find. There is no doubt that it is a desirable area to live, and that it will remain higher priced than less desirable areas of town. I am quite skeptical about Forbes’ suggestion that this area is especially overpriced, as relative prices of different neighborhoods tend to move in lockstep (over the long run) with respect to quality.
When I lived in San Diego, there were some dumpy parts of Mission Hills, particularly near UCSD Medical Center. But even 15 years ago, it was ridiculously overpriced given that the only practical difference between Mission Hills and Hillcrest is essentially the view…and it was a view of Lindbergh Field and the 8/5 interchange.
PB, I agree. One of my sisters lived there for awhile.
Ben —
I look forward to wearing one of those cool HBB T-shirts around San Diego. The check is in the mail
Thanks PB. BTW, for those that have ordered one, I am finally catching up on getting them mailed out. If anyone gets a wrong size or color, just let me know and I’ll send you another one.
It has been enjoyable watching the reaction from people who read the shirt. I think you guys will have fun with it.
Do you have XXL?
Yes
Well Ben,
We intend to put the blue model to the Valley of the Sun heat test - 104 here in Mesa yesterday.
And in other shocking news, Mesa mayor Scott Smith says difficult and painful choices will need to be made for Arizona’s third largest city.
The fact is, Scott was president of Great Western Homes, before he joined Hovnanian, an even larger RE developer/builder, before he became mayor.
His most recent political move was to campaign (successfully) for the development of Mesa Gateway Airport construction for the Gaylord Resort. This 1200 room project was advertised as “self-funding”. The fact is, millions of $$$ in current existing tax revenues were diverted for the project in “anticipation” of future room taxes.
So now, the headlines are, “Budget crisis to affect school teachers and city services”.
Scott was my next door neighbor some years ago, but my feelings towards Mesa RE development, and his, are light-years apart.
Nice! I had that Mr. Housing Bubble T-Shirt a few years ago. Wore it out. My commercial prop mgr laughed. My residential prop mgr didn’t. No one got it. At the post office the lady flipped out laughing hysterically, talking about bubble bath. This other guy in there though, he looked like he wanted to murder me. Seriously. He read it then looked at me. Then wouldn’t stop. Even when the clerk was dying laughing. This would have been about 2.5 years ago, before the media was on it.
Ben,
I have already intentionally modeled mine for a couple of branch managers I know fairly well at two my banks. Normally, I’m well dressed, clean cut and conservative for my bank business. One manager is a small-time rental property investor herself and the other is pretty down to earth about her job situation and the role of her bank in this bad loan mess.
These two are both branch officers of the 1st and 2nd largest banks in Wisconsin. Both are big time recipients of bailout money to the tune of 1.5-7 billion and 500+ million respectively .
Reactions:
The first one laughed like heck as i am a well-known troublemaker and appreciated the HBB address and said she would check us out. She was at my side a couple of years ago when we were interrupted and asked by one of her visiting corporate office idiot VP’s if I had any questions about their bank. I asked about the banks exposures to if’fy sub prime, Alt-A, Prime and Commericals loans. He turned RED, fumbled around with lame answers and exited our conversation in a hurry. She still laughs about that one too.
The second one smiled and said she was going to call security on me as one of her loan officers came in to talk to her. I know him too and he rolled his eyes and left to return later. I laughed and told her if she did that, I’d demand a FINCEN Form 104 Cash Transaction Report and withdraw another large chunk of cash from her bank to pay for my bail.
I can’t wear my T-shirt to another of my banks as one of my young personal bankers in that one just seperated from her husband and they lost their house in a short sale. I am not a cruel person.
I did get a few grins, smirks and a couple of glares from the tellers and customers. I don’t know if any were practicing or unemployed RE agents
I wore mine to the bank the other day. They are nosy anyway, with that know your customer stuff. So the teller insisted on reading it. It got kinda quiet for a few seconds.
But think about it; the housing bubble is still treated as some kind of conspiracy theory. IMO, that’s why the PTB are still looking like fools, running around with no clue as to what’s next.
Very true Ben.
I am not anywhere near as well educated or sharp as many on this blog when it comes to FIRE issues but one thing was very apparent to me over the last few years as far as small end customer banking goes.
Many lower, middle and possibly VP level tier banking personel may know less than me about the everyday basic realities and ramifications of this housing mess and some are NOT faking or feiting their ignorance.
Many are just unaware or conveniently unconscious. It’s like Wall Street, NAR and the REIC has done wide scale frontal lobotomies on regional and state banks.
Worse, these so-called “Banking Professionals”, that the general public meets, works with and trusts are NOT experts…they are and always have been, just banking technicans and salesmen….acting as so many clogs in the debt bondage wheel that used to go chugging merrily along
Very true: here in Maryland everyone believes that there WAS a Bubble, but it “clearly wasn’t here” and everything will “get back to normal soon” with normal being the very Bubble that never existed!
Ameriquest: A window into the mortgage meltdown
By E. Scott Reckard
Los Angeles Times
To help understand why the Obama administration is pushing for greater financial regulation, it may help to examine the case of Ameriquest Mortgage Co., whose dizzying rise was followed by a monumental crash.
The Southern California company and its affiliates had grown to become the nation’s largest subprime mortgage lender when, in January 2006, Ameriquest coughed up $325 million to settle charges that it misled borrowers and falsified loan documents. Representatives of 49 states, the District of Columbia and even Northern California’s Alameda County signed off on the deal.
But as Ameriquest and its parent company cut the deal, Uncle Sam was noticeably absent. Ameriquest, based in Orange, wasn’t a deposit-taking bank or savings and loan, so it wasn’t subject to scrutiny by federal bank regulators.
In the annals of problems stemming from weak federal oversight, Ameriquest could easily serve as Exhibit A — not for itself alone, but for the largely unregulated financial company it kept.
Sigh… Once again, these demands for better regulation and oversight completely miss the point.
I’m trying to imagine if the abolitionists of the 1800’s had proposed more regulations to make sure slaves were paid fairly, and treated reasonably, and that they were sold for appropriate prices– and if they had blamed lax oversight on the part of the government every time slaves were abused…
… instead of demanding that the INSTITUTION of slavery be ABOLISHED.
Do we need to add to the thousands of pages of regulations already issued every year, and divert even more of our potentially productive work force into accounting and litigation and politics? Or do we need to re-think the whole banking system and re-build it from scratch?
Come on, people! Think big!
Wouldn’t re-thinking and re-creating the banking system from scratch require a lot of new regulations?
I think the point is rather that trying to incrementally “fix” a fundamentally flawed system is the wrong way to approach it. The system needs to be thrown out.
Yes, there will need to be laws and regulations to govern whatever new system is in place…but presumably they would be fewer and less complicated.
Somebody once said “there’s a simple solution to every problem and it’s almost always wrong.” I don’t have a problem with the idea that the financial industry is extremely complex & requires an extremely complex (and expensive) regulatory burden to operate efficiently for the market over the long term.
I also believe that the federal government is far too corrupted by monied interests to put in place the necessary regulations much less actually enforce them.
I also believe that the average American voter has no ability to understand just how corrupt the federal government has become, much less the gumption to do anything about it.
So I really don’t see anything changing for the better, but I do enjoy interesting thought experiments anyway.
This is, in fact, a really good point.
I watched a very insightful lecture on CSPAN the other day by the CIA researcher Thomas Barnett. In it, he argued that many of the most dramatic changes of the 20th century were caused by systemic stresses on “rule sets” that had become outdated. For instance, he observed that the Great Depression followed a period of intense globalization between 1880 and 1929; it, in turn, caused enough “systemic stress” to the worldwide system to ignite WWII. After that war ended, a boatload of new “rule sets” arose, as did the institutions necessary to manage them (i.e., NATO, the UN, the IMF, the World Bank, the Warsaw Pact, SEATO, etc.) Many of these rule sets were organized around Cold War-era goals of “containing Communism” and such, and they continued to be used unmodified until after the fall of the USSR.
Now, however, we’ve undergone a second phase of globalization largely driven by electronic connectivity and the arrival of developing economies to the international market; consequently, the old rules are essentially broken again. He originally gave this lecture in 2004, so he used 9/11 as the big indicator of how the old rules failed…but a better “breaking point” was probably the fall of Lehman Brothers or Bear Sterns.
It is important to note that every major population region such as Europe, China and Russia, have gone through major historical, political and socioeconomic changes in the last 20 years.
Guess who hasn’t?
And the longer we wait, the worse it will be.
Not to mention that in a global economy, you have to have global rules. If you don’t, you get massive dislocations, like trillion dollar trade deficits.
TARP Watchdog Calls PPIP A Sham For The Taxpayers
Joe Weisenthal|Apr. 21, 2009, 6:18 AM
Almost every outside who’s taken a look at Tim Geithner’ Public-Private Investment Partnership (PPIP) has come to the same conclusion: That it’s a sham being foisted on taxpayers for the benefit of the banks and certain select investors.
Now Inspector General Neil Barofsky — who, like Elizabeth Warren, has been a fierce skeptic of the bailout schemes — has come out with an official report slamming the bailout scheme.
>AP: Overall, the report said the public-private partnership — using Treasury, Federal Reserve and private investor money — could total $2 trillion. “The sheer size of the program … is so large and the leverage being provided to the private equity participants so beneficial, that the taxpayer risk is many times that of the private parties, thereby potentially skewing the economic incentives,” the report stated.
In particular, the report cited funds that would be used to purchase troubled real estate-related securities from financial institutions. Under plans unveiled by Treasury, for every $1 of private investment, Treasury would invest $1 and could provide another dollar in a nonrecourse loan. That money could then leverage a loan from another government fund backed mostly by the Federal Reserve, a step that Barofsky said would dilute the incentive for private fund managers to exercise due diligence.
Barofsky recommended that Treasury not allow the use of Fed loans “unless significant mitigating measures are included to address these dangers.”
I wonder how long until he is silenced in some fashion?
Speaking the truth in public and actually thinking about opening cases against bankers?! Can’t have that!
latest news
[UAL] UAL Q1 operating revenue down 22% to $3.7 billion
INDICATIONS
U.S. stock futures drop as DuPont, Merck cut view
By Steve Goldstein, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:54 a.m. EDT April 21, 2009
LONDON (MarketWatch) — U.S. stock futures on Tuesday dropped as blue chips DuPont, Merck and Caterpillar cut their 2009 profit or sales estimates in a largely bleak wave of earnings reports.
After early gains, S&P 500 futures fell 6.3 points to 826.60 and Nasdaq 100 futures fell 7.5 points to 1,306.00. Futures on the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 65 points.
Worries over Bank of America’s outlook and the banking sector more generally drove a retreat in U.S. stocks on Monday, as the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 289 points, the S&P 500 dropped 37 points and the Nasdaq Composite fell 74 points.
Richard Cookson, head of asset allocation research at HSBC, said investors may have got too enthusiastic in the first place.
“Banks are able to suspend some of their mark-to-market (accounting) for their existing portfolio, which has a rather flattering effect on profits. One of the things that spooked people yesterday was comments about a rise in loan losses,” he said.
“Corporate profits are under severe pressure, simply extrapolating the fact that the economy may be over the worst to say corporate profits will jump is a stretch. They’re going to fall hard this year.”
Investors wary as B. of A. results show one-time gains
By Greg Morcroft, MarketWatch
Last update: 4:24 p.m. EDT April 20, 2009
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Bank of America Corp. shares fell 24% on Monday as investors focused on rising credit costs and dismissed an almost tripling of its first-quarter profits due to special gains, as its traditional banking business continued to suffer from a weakening economy.
“Bank of America showed an overall profit, and it seems to be Wall Street — not Main Street — that pulled these numbers up,” Celent Group’s Bart Narter said on Monday.
The company’s investment banking business made money in Wall Street-focused areas such as trading and wealth management, while the firm lost money in the more “Main Street” consumer-oriented credit card, mortgage and insurance businesses.
IMF Says Global Losses From Credit Crisis May Hit $4.1 Trillion
Bloom berg
” Worldwide losses tied to rotten loans and securitized assets may reach $4.1 trillion by the end of 2010 as the recession and credit crisis exact a higher toll on financial institutions, the International Monetary Fund said.”
(I’m piggybacking since I figure it’s on the same topic PB)
Remember when Bernanke suggested the subprime damage would be “contained” to $200 bn? Current IMF estimates of the US share of the damage toll are in the $3,000 bn neighborhood. BTW, $3,000 bn is 15 times larger than $200 bn. Oops!
Bernanke Believes Housing Mess Contained
05 1707
The subprime mess is grave but largely contained, said Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke Thursday, in a speech before the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. While rising delinquencies and foreclosures will continue to weigh heavily on the housing market this year, it will not cripple the U.S. economy, he said. The speech was the Chairman’s most comprehensive on the subprime mortgage issue to date.
“Given the fundamental factors in place that should support the demand for housing, we believe the effect of the troubles in the subprime sector on the broader housing market will likely be limited,” Bernanke said
“Given the fundamental factors in place that should support the demand for housing, we believe the effect of the troubles in the subprime sector on the broader housing market will likely be limited,” Bernanke said
It is difficult to conclude that the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board is dumber than a stump. I’m hoping that he is just so far removed from the real world that he is actually fairly bright but clueless.
“It is difficult to conclude that the Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board is dumber than a stump. I’m hoping that he is just so far removed from the real world that he is actually fairly bright but clueless.”
Which makes you wonder what terms like “bright” actually mean nowadays.
Oh they’re plenty smart. They were smart enough to lie and get away with it.
They knew. They knew years ago. Don’t ever think otherwise.
From Containment to Green Shoots: The Misunderstood Odessey of Ben Bernanke
Some posters here guessed it was going to be 4 trillion dollars. They were right.
“Remember when Bernanke suggested the subprime damage would be “contained” to $200 bn? Current IMF estimates of the US share of the damage toll are in the $3,000 bn neighborhood. BTW, $3,000 bn is 15 times larger than $200 bn. Oops!”
Hey, what’s a few more zeroes? GM has somehow lost ~$1 billion in the couch cushions over the last month and had to go ask for more bailout cash from the Fed.
You know what happened next.
You guys are full of good news this morning!
“I can’t sell units to save my life,” said developer Robert Joseph, who’s built more than 400 condos in the Milwaukee area since 1993.
http://www.jsonline.com/realestate/42772677.html
the symbol for United Airlines is not UAL, its UAUA.
I know this because I took a flyer on UA back in 2002, and the investment was wiped out…havent written it off yet as my long term capital write-offs are limited.
GM is my “Global meltdown pick on this one ala hozzie baby”….same money in nominal terms. Thanks for coming out PB.
Is telling implausible lies really protected as a First Amendment Right?
Wall Street Journal
* APRIL 21, 2009
Credit Raters Plead the First. Will It Fly?
By NATHAN KOPPEL
Faced with a rash of litigation over their ratings of mortgage-backed securities, credit-rating firms are hoping to rely on a longtime legal ace-in-the-hole: the Constitution.
But that protection is being questioned amid allegations that the firms had conflicts that encouraged them to give unduly rosy opinions about the creditworthiness of securities backed by subprime mortgages.
Moody’s Corp., McGraw-Hill Cos.’ Standard & Poor’s and Fimalac SA’s Fitch Ratings were hit with litigation over their ratings after homeowner defaults triggered investor losses in the securities.
U.S. regulators and lawmakers are considering stricter oversight of credit-rating firms, including changing the way the firms are paid, in an effort to minimize potential conflicts. A recent 10-month study by the Securities and Exchange Commission found that rating firms put profits ahead of quality when determining ratings for mortgage-backed securities.
Yet to succeed in court, investors may need to navigate a thorny constitutional issue: Are the ratings that the services give securities — ranging from triple-A to junk — simply “opinion” that is protected by the First Amendment? Traditionally, the answer has been yes.
Rating firms generally enjoy a free-speech right to “make informed, thoughtful predictions about the future,” says UCLA School of Law professor Eugene Volokh, a First Amendment expert. “That is no different from what newspapers or scholars do.”
If the ratings agencies succesfully use the free speech defence, they’re pretty much extinguishing their business model.
I disagree. Humans are ultimately pretty stupid. No one else has any more legitimacy in providing ratings, and it takes a generation to establish that legitimacy.
So you have to go with what you have.
True enough. It should mean the end of their businesses (more or less saying that here’s my opinion, but don’t count on it for anything), but it probably won’t. It’s so much easier to pay someone else for questionable quality than it is to do it yourself.
Remember, it’s FRAUD if you misrepresent something in exchange for money, but it’s free speech if they do it…. comrade.
Got rope?
FEDS TO TAX WEB TO BOLSTER STATE REVENUES
By KAJA WHITEHOUSE
New York Post
The days of buying online to avoid paying sales taxes may soon be over.
A bill is expected to be introduced to Congress this week that would force retailers like eBay and Amazon.com to start collecting sales taxes on behalf of states from people who shop online or through mail order.
It’s not a new effort: Attempts to close the online tax “loophole” have been going on for at least a decade.
But supporters of the bill think Congress may finally give in to their demands because of their own pressure to lend support to financially battered state governments.
“This would be fiscal relief for the states that wouldn’t require any money from the federal government,” said Neal Osten, a senior policy analyst with the National Conference of State Legislatures, which is drafting the bill.
Keep it up boys and girls…I could use an added incentive to jettison the last of my pesky consumerist tendencies.
You still have consumerist tendencies?
Speaking of which, who would buy a big ticket item in Cook County anymore with all our onerous taxes? One could potentially save hundreds or thousands of dollars by shopping in a nearby county or state.
Nearby? Heck, I’d rather pay $900 for a ticket to Tokyo than pay $9 to Urkel.
Yeah, sheepishly I must admit to indulging in a few treats now and then - but only portable property. If I can’t carry it or ride on it, ET, then I don’t buy it.
Exactly. I am holding off on all big purchases because of the tax increase here in California. I am not paying for the mistakes of others.
That would probably mean the end of eBay…
…but it could be good for Craigslist.
Nope. I’d still go there for music instruments and hardware, scuba equipment, home theater equipment (higher end amps like QSC and such), electronic components, robotics parts, arcade machine parts. All the things I can’t find locally — which is most of what I buy. Just no local sources for the stuff I play with.
‘A bill is expected to be introduced to Congress this week that would force retailers like eBay and Amazon.com to start collecting sales taxes on behalf of states from people who shop online or through mail order.’
Taxes will effectively lower the net profit, absolutely, for the seller. With those auctions that start their opening bids at $0.01, bidders will eventually factor in the sales tax. They will bid lower. The residents of states w/o sales tax may have an edge on the winning bid price in the long run.
Why is okay for the online e-retailers not to collect sales taxes but the mom and pop stores and big box stores have to collect sales taxes?
Mom & Pop stores don’t collect sales tax on sales shipped out of state either.
The whole not having to pay sales tax if you buy from a store that does not have a taxable nexus to your state of residence (and take delivery at your residence) is a holdover from days of yore. It is, frankly, a strange rule, but a longstanding one.
If i remember correctly there was some legislation exempting e-tailers without any physical stores from sales tax…
Places like Barnes and Noble already collect sales tax - that was part of the reason Amazon was more attractive until they started collecting NY taxes. (Plus NYS tax forms have a calculation for you to report sales taxes on out-of-state purchases.)
Also, since sales taxes are local and not national it would be a bookkeeping nightmare for small companies.
And if this evolved into the idea of a national sales tax would stir up a lot of other issues.
Not such a strange rule. States have no legal jurisdiction in other states to enforce collection of its sales taxes. States try to do this on occasion, but, forgetting the past, find it is too expensive and labor intensive.
Some states have banded together to try and collect from each other which works fairly well.
It is also not very easy to determine the correct sales tax amount by the shipping address, not to mention paying the correct amount to the different taxing authorities and keeping current on all of the sales tax changes country wide.
Far beyond the typical eBay seller in my opinion.
Because higher taxes have always fixed recessions!
They’re doing just about everything possible to ensure that this recession/depression will never end: Bailouts, vanishing jobs, higher taxes, eventual severe inflation (but not in wages), and so on. Brilliant!
Yes especially sales taxes which are going to hit the middle class, which already has no money.
Don’t know if this got posted over the weekend. The otherwise normally sane Scott Burns has now decided that we should immigration to solve our housing crisis and restore our pride:
Immigrants could help end the housing glut
12:00 AM CDT on Sunday, April 19, 2009
Scott Burns is a syndicated columnist and a principal of the Plano-based investment firm AssetBuilder Inc. E-mail questions to scott@scottburns.com.
Our friends in Washington continue to reward witless members of the financial sector. Meanwhile, those of us who don’t fly Bonus Class are thinking about importing guillotines from France.
Thankfully, we may not need to place the order.
All we have to do is to get Washington to listen to the best idea I’ve heard to end the decline of housing prices and restore our confidence in the most important asset most Americans ever own. The idea comes from economist A. Gary Shilling and real estate developer Richard S. Lefrak.
Their suggestion: Don’t think about artificially low mortgage interest rates and other stopgaps. Instead, eliminate the oversupply of houses. And, by the way, don’t spend a dime of taxpayer money doing it.
How can this be done? Simple: Open our borders to immigrants who can buy a home in the U.S. Let a million immigrants a year do this for two years, and the entire oversupply of homes and condos will be absorbed. Supply will no longer dwarf demand. Prices will stabilize. The most important asset owned by the vast majority of Americans will, once again, be a source of pride and security.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/columnists/sburns/stories/DN-burns_19bus.ART.State.Edition1.3aa2f93.html
Immigrants in the Hamptons…
“Dozens of immigrant laborers unable to find work and pay for shelter are now setting up make-shift homes in the woods - within view of multi-million dollar mansions.
In some cases, they are living off of wild deer they’ve been able to kill.”
http://www.wcbs880.com/Homeless-Workers-Encamped-in-the-Hamptons/4241251
The math is wrong in this article. 2.4 million houses, at 4 lawn maintenance workers per mortgage, we’re gonna need 9.6 million immigrant workers. Add families, say 40 million total. Since none will have health care, taxpayers will have to provide it. Figure $2,000/person/year = $80 billion/year = $33,333 per year per house. We’re better off knocking them down.
Immigrants can afford to buy our houses? Hasn’t the economic problems hit all the world?
I’m sure the MegaBanks will be happy to loan them the full amount plus some extra, with all the risk absorbed by the Timmy gang (= the taxpayer). Maybe they have to ask them for their passports in return, just to be sure …
Or, we could lower the prices.
Having worked with one new immigrant, being newly arrived in the country means they have zero credit history and only being able to get a car loan at 20% interest.
Wow…
So, the best way to fix a crumbling economy is to:
1) Bring in more labor (even though we already don’t have enough jobs), especially people who won’t integrate into our society.
2) Keep housing prices high because high prices are somehow good during recessions and other long periods of few jobs and dropping wages.
Right…
We should be smart like Australia. Any new immigrant would have to thoroughly prove he has a substantial net worth - not a no doc deal. This way it would be more likely that the immigrant would not get on the dole. Also they should be exempt from paying social security taxes, but they should not be qualified to collect social security or medicare.
I don’t understand the problem otherwise with immigrants. Several generations ago they made this country great only because they were not given welfare.
Hey Bill
You might be interested to know that immigration is a *very* controversial subject here, given the ‘camps’ where refugees, paperless immigrants, and other ‘queue-jumpers’ are stowed for months at taxpayer expense. (Living conditions in these ‘camps’ are considered shameful by left-leaners, and far too expensive by conservatives.)
Let alone the controversy created in the 80s when a flood of refugees from countries with cultures very dissimilar to ours, created the “Muslim Lebanese” vs. “Aussie” assimilation problems here. There is much cultural tension to say the least.
This isn’t really a subject near and dear to my own heart, as I was a (Canadian) immigrant who came through the proper channels and jumped through years of flaming hoops and big expenses for various checks and government processing fees. Immigration agents are also very loosely regulated - if they take advantage of immigrants for large fees, which they do depending on their personal level of honesty, the worst they can expect is to lose their license. (I sound almost Aussie now but still have an immigrant’s perspective, which I guess I’ll never lose.)
Australia has our very own version of HB1s - Visa-holders who are here temporarily to work and are a national scandal, given that they often are employed in conditions comparable to the average US ‘illegal’ and have been known to overstay their visas as well.
In general, Australia doesn’t have immigration figured out much more than the US does - we just are lucky enough to be a remote island continent, which doesn’t share a land border with a Mexico.
The wealthy corporate elite is crying the blues…..
EAT IT.
http://tinyurl.com/c4aobw
Bbbbbbbut we “need” rich people so please go easy on them. Pay your taxes so they don’t have to pay theirs. Better yet, take a paycut so they don’t have to…….
Thanks for posting that. It’s well worth the read. These are people who are completely, utterly out of touch with reality.
Welcome back to the real world, Wall Street.
I know a gang of guys who have rope for them.
Last summer when I was swimming, a large leach attached itself to my leg. It was equally outraged when I poured salt on him.
(“JPMorgan and all these guys should go on strike—see what happens to the country without Wall Street,” says another hedge-funder).
Go right the F-k ahead! Good riddance. Dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya!
I dare ya
I Double dare ya!
I TRIPPLE DOG DARE YA!
“Gekko: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country’s wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It’s bullsh*t. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. “
It works! Let’s get rid of the death tax & no taxes on capital gains! Woohoo!
Great article, exeter, thanks for the find:
(from the article)
…It should come as no surprise that being a banker—indeed, simply being rich—is going to be a lot less fun under an Obama administration. In winter 2007, as the Democratic primary got under way, Obama showed up at a Goldman Sachs client meeting to explain his economic agenda…one attendee lobbed the question that was surely on the mind of everyone in the room, “Are you going to raise my taxes?”
Obama looked out across the millionaires sitting around him. “Yes,” he answered, without a flicker of hesitation, according to a person familiar with the meeting…
Oh, how I love the man.
+eleventybillion.
For billionaires it’s going to be a game of musical chairs. Now that the rest of America is broke, they will have to steal and manipulate money from each other in order to stay at the top.
I loved the guy who said is it fair that actors and sports stars make big money. My answer is yes, much more so than Wallstreet. Why, because people freely choose to go see a movie and pay for the ticket. How many of us freely chose to bail out Wallstreet? How many have control of the management fees on our 401k which we are bribed to invest in?? How much control of the FED do we have vs say Goldman Sachs? Why do Hedge Fund Managers and CEO’s pay a lower effective tax rate than I do, but make much much more, do I have control of that? Did I have any say in the CDS swaps and pension theft that they are responsible for?
No Wallstreet is full of manipulators not all stars. All stock benefits (dividends cap gains) bonus payments ect should be taxed at the highest level, and as long as the gov is bailing them out they should have restrictions on bonus payments.
I’d argue you have the same amount of say when it comes to the financial industry as you do the entertainment industry. You can opt out of each if you choose.
You’re not required to participate in a 401k, just like you’re not required to go see a movie or buy a DVD. No, you can’t control the tax rate on hedge fund managers, but you also can’t control the tax breaks/incentives studios get to make movies at a certain location either, right?
In the end, I agree - I feel that sports stars and movie actors (while ridiculously overpaid and as such I rarely support them) provide more of a service - entertainment - than the wall street/hedge fund types do. But banks *do*provide a service, both lending as well as “safe-keeping” of money. They do deserve to be rewarded for providing that service.
“I feel that sports stars and movie actors (while ridiculously overpaid and as such I rarely support them) provide more of a service - entertainment - than the wall street/hedge fund types do. But banks *do*provide a service, both lending as well as “safe-keeping” of money. They do deserve to be rewarded for providing that service.”
Lately the Wall St/hedge fund types have been providing good entertainment also.
The only service the finance industry provides is FRAUD and value taken, not added.
And no, you don’t have a choice of participating, nor the amount of participation.
If you are fortunate enough to make more money than your cost of living, then you HAVE to do something with it. The government frowns heavily on large sums of cash and in many places, you CANNOT complete transactions with large amounts of cash.
Try pulling out $20K in cash from your back pocket to buy something and see if you aren’t talking to someone with a badge you would rather not talk to in short order. Therefore you have to use the financial system.
Banks also have to report transactions larger than $3000.
But millions in this country don’t have that extra cash, remember? So their life is financed in some way or another.
So whether you are poor, middle class or rich, you MUST use the finance system.
It’s the law.
What “safe-keeping?”
“I loved the guy who said is it fair that actors and sports stars make big money. My answer is yes, much more so than Wallstreet. Why, because people freely choose to go see a movie and pay for the ticket.”
Bingo. We aren’t even allowed to know who these people are, yet we’re told that they are superstars on the order of Michael Jordan, and that they must be paid astronomical sums to hold the economy together.
“None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house”
I find it really hard to imagine these types of people paying bonuses to plumbers or electricians after a job is completed.
Or giving a waitress a big tip after the kitchen screws up the food.
This amount of delusion in the article is remarkable. Clearly the banking/finance culture managed to convince themselves that their contribution to the world was much greater than it really was, and that they were entitled to compensation in line with their inflated self-worth.
Given the evidenced level of self delusion, it seems a lot clearer to me how they missed the bubble. The bubble was their creation, their mistake. Their inflated egos made it impossible to perceive the evidence of their fallibility.
Reading some of the comments by the financiers, about how they are entitled to their bonuses, it reminded me of some of the comments made by GM union workers. The single minded focus on what they “deserve” regardless of the big picture.
Your right - I think the bubble was their life. Now that its gone, they are desperately trying to get things back to the way the were.
They are not the only ones:
Help, I’m from Harvard and I’ve been rejected!
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/04/help-im-from-harvard-and-ive-been-rejected.html
Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!
“It says participants wore snappy “rejection” buttons and got a “road map of sorts on handling failure,” as well as a pink booklet of rejection letters and personal stories from Harvard faculty, students, and staff members.
The grim tales included a 2004 alumnus and aspiring actor rejected for a barista gig at a Los Angeles Starbucks for being overqualified and a medical school professor who was wait-listed at every medical school he applied to.”
It reads just like a Kurt Vonnegut novel.
BTW, I’m just burning up waiting for somebody to deliver a satirical novel with enough wit, meanness, and sheer hilarity to do this era justice. Any bets on who will be the first to the table? Don DeLillo? Phillip Roth?
First off, it won’t be a novel. To complicated for the avg. ADD person.
It will be a movie, and its title will be “Idiocracy.”
Masters of their universe, perhaps. But certainly not of mine.
How funny though that this little ditty has been conveniently overlooked by y’all:
“I’m a Democrat, but I agree with Rush Limbaugh on a lot of this stuff,” rails the wife of a former AIG executive.
It’s not the same when your own kind turns on you. Too funny!!!!
It makes all the sense in the world to me. When it comes time to step up to your obligations and responsibilities, they run to the group that makes most twisted logic, a’la Limbaugh.
Thanks for the link, exeter. I sent it on to some friends and told them it was guaranteed to disgust them.
Let them eat cake!
Got this email from Realty Trac. I’ve been checking my rental every other month for free. This is a $24.95 tax on stupidity as far as I’m concerned.
“Avoid Foreclosure Evictions with our New Renter Alerts.
Check the foreclosure status of the home you’re renting
Receive immediate e-mail alert if foreclosure status changes
Review monthly e-mail updates confirming foreclosure status
Verify dates and times of critical foreclosure actions
Check the foreclosure status of a rental property before you rent
Access foreclosure status and links to valuable renter resources
With renter evictions increasing nationwide, tenants need to protect themselves. Now you can with RealtyTrac’s Renter Alerts - a fast and easy way to find out and monitor if your landlord is in foreclosure.
For only $24.95 a year - that’s just $2 a month - you can have peace of mind, knowing in advance if your landlord is in foreclosure. And you can check any address to make sure it’s in RealtyTrac’s coverage area before you sign up.”
How can they do this when I know of 5 or 6 houses within 5 miles of where I am that have been empty for months with all the appliances gone that never showed up on RealtyTrac at all. I know of 2 that were foreclosed and sold that never showed up. The house I put a bid on yesterday is a Countrywide foreclosure, and it never showed up on RealtyTrac.
Wonder if relying on any of the online R/E websites is that great of strategy as your main source of info.
This is a topic maybe Ben could help lend good info. My guess is lots of properties and transactions never show on the websites.
I bet a lot of properties never make it past the company rep and their real estate agents friends.
Yes. As much as we would all like to work sans Realtor, they have some established connections to lenders, other agents that can be helpful in your search for property. Simply hoofing it around the area of interest is also good first step.
RE websites are like exclusively using monster.com for a job search. It only captures a certain sector of the market and because it is so widely published, it becomes less useful.
Perhaps not on the sale side, but your local Recorder of Deeds (title may vary by area) has all that info. I suspect that’s where RealtyTrac is getting a lot of their data.
Yeah, they should make mexico more gringo friendly too!
Sometimes it doesn`t pay to take the low bid.
Lennar named in Chinese-made drywall lawsuitApril 20, 2009 5:47 PM ET
All Associated Press news(AP) - Homebuilder Lennar Corp. disclosed on Monday it has been named in a class-action lawsuit brought on behalf of homeowners who bought houses built with Chinese-made drywall and claim it emits gasses that make people sick.
The lawsuit, filed last month in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, is one of several that have been filed in several states against Chinese drywall manufacturers, builders and suppliers.
The plaintiffs claim they bought two homes built by Lennar that were made with the Chinese drywall, which they contend emits sulfur gasses and other fumes, Lennar said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Lennar said its subcontractors used drywall made in China during the construction of its homes primarily in 2005 and 2006. The company said some of the material contains high levels of sulfur and may emit sulfur-based gases.
I know a guy who was a superintendent for Lennar in South Florida, he told me a couple of years ago that Lennar would change subs to save $200.00 on a house.
From the warped viewpoint of our corporate masters, this is GOOD thing since it means: more money spent fixing the problem, and more money spent treating the illnesses of those who were exposed to the drywall. That’s the way they think.
If you think there will be any money left after the lawyers take their piece to fix the problem or sick people, you might be overtly optomistic.
These tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists never give up, do they?
Huffington Post
Eben Esterhuizen
Posted April 14, 2009 | 12:20 PM (EST)
Conspiracy? Is Goldman Sachs Running the Plunge Protection Team?
Read More: Conspiracy Theories, Goldman Sachs, Plunge Protection Team, Business News
Is the current stock market rebound based on fundamentals, or are more sinister forces at work? Tyler Durden, one of the best financial bloggers around, have found some circumstantial evidence that suggests the mysterious Plunge Protection Team (PPT) has recently been boosting the stock market. And some might say Goldman Sachs is running the show…
The Working Group on Financial Markets, known colloquially as the Plunge Protection Team (PPT), was created in 1988 by Ronald Reagan, in response to the Black Monday stock market crash in 1987. Their operations have always been shrouded in secrecy, with a Washington Post article from 1997 writing that the group aims to prevent the “smoothly running global financial machine” from locking up.
Conspiracy theorists have long claimed that the PPT manipulates U.S. stock markets by using government funds to buy stocks in the event of market dislocation, but skeptics argue that such an operation would be unworkable.
Durden, author of the ZeroHedge blog, thinks he found some evidence of the PPT’s interference with the market. He cites an unusual piece of data on program trading, a part of the stock market that is controlled by mysterious computer programs that use mathematical formulas to buy and sell stocks.
According to the New York Stock Exchange, last week’s volume of program trading was 8% higher than the 52 week average. It’s strange that program trading volume would be increasing so sharply when overall market volume is declining, says Durden. It’s even stranger to note that principal trading, which occurs when a brokerage buys or sells stocks for its own account, is running 21% above 52 week average. New York Stock Exchange weekly volume, on the other hand, is running about 9% below 52 week average.
“A very interesting data point, also provided by the NYSE, implicates none other than administration darling Goldman Sachs in yet another potentially troubling development,” writes Durden. “Key to note here is that Goldman’s program trading principal to agency+customer facilitation ratio is a staggering 5x, which is multiples higher than both the second most active program trader and the average ratio of the NYSE, both at or below 1x.”
The implication is that Goldman Sachs trades much more often for its own (principal) benefit. “In this light, the program trading spike over the past week could be perceived as much more sinister,” he says. “For conspiracy lovers, long searching for any circumstantial evidence to catch the mysterious “plunge protection team” in action, you should look no further than this.”
My questions:
1) Is there any way to prove this?
2) If it is true, is it illegal?
3) If proven, could it bring down Goldman Sachs?
Just askin’
Do you believe it’s possible for something(anything?) to bring down GS?
This danged rumor just won’t go away! What will the historians have to say about it in fifty years?
PAUL B. FARRELL
Jack Bauer can’t stop ‘The Goldman Conspiracy’
10 reasons why Wall Street has absolute power over America’s democracy
By Paul B. Farrell, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:13 p.m. EDT April 20, 2009
ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) — Two mind-numbing fast-paced dramas. Two parallel worlds. One real, one fiction, both deadly. Jack Bauer, mythic hero of “24.” Dying from a deadly bio-pathogen leaked from weapons developed by Starkwood, a rogue mercenary army attacking the presidency, hell-bent on taking over America.
The other drama in play: “Hank the Hammer” Paulson, iconic Wall Street hero, a Trojan Horse placed inside Washington by Goldman Sachs as Treasury Secretary in control of America’s $15 trillion economy. Goldman, a modern dynasty with vast financial powers much like those once used by the de’ Medici, Rothschilds and Morgans to control nations.
One of the confounding aspects of bear market rallies is that the longer they last, the more likely investors are to expect a correction, says Barron’s Bob O’Brien.
Both dramas play high-stakes games with financial WMDs that have lethal consequences. Jack compresses thrills, kills and chills into 24 hours. Hank, Goldman and their army of Wall Street mercenaries move with equally blinding speed, heart-pounding action.
Drama? You bet. Six short months ago Hank led an assault on Congress. The scene parallels one in “24:” Sangala War Lord Juma’s brazen attack inside the White House. But no AK-47s necessary. The Hammer assaulted Congress with just a two-and-a-half page memo in hand. Like a crack special-ops warrior, he took down the enemy, demanding $750 billion, absolute control, total secrecy, no accountability and emergency powers to act immediately … warning that inaction was not an option, that collapse of America’s banking system was imminent, would bring down the global monetary system, pushing world’s economies into a “Great Depression II.” Congress surrendered.
Here’s the whole plot:
Scene 1. American government is now run by the ‘Goldman Conspiracy’
So are you saying that former GS executives didn’t and don’t work in government or as lobbyists and advisers and that GS hasn’t received preferential treatment in the current crisis?
Really?
Naw, come on! Yer playin’ with us! Right?
And now for the dumb question of the day:
Is it actually legal for the Fed to manipulate prices in whatever asset market it pleases? If so, what authority grants them this power?
13(3.) Discounts for Individuals, Partnerships, and Corporations
In unusual and exigent circumstances, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, by the affirmative vote of not less than five members, may authorize any Federal reserve bank, during such periods as the said board may determine, at rates established in accordance with the provisions of section 14, subdivision (d), of this Act, to discount for any individual, partnership, or corporation, notes, drafts, and bills of exchange when such notes, drafts, and bills of exchange are indorsed or otherwise secured to the satisfaction of the Federal Reserve bank: Provided, That before discounting any such note, draft, or bill of exchange for an individual, partnership, or corporation the Federal reserve bank shall obtain evidence that such individual, partnership, or corporation is unable to secure adequate credit accommodations from other banking institutions. All such discounts for individuals, partnerships, or corporations shall be subject to such limitations, restrictions, and regulations as the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System may prescribe.
I am no attorney, but nothing in that passage you cited jumps out at me as explicitly authorizing asset price manipulation.
Am I just missing the obvious?
Heh, heh, heh… — bubble stocks will bubble…
Amazing.
Builders up across the board +3% (your posted time)
Hadn’t looked at these, thx.
I had been looking at SRS, SKF and even GSG (commodities) in the morning.
After Geithner got on a roll while speaking to Congress, the change was dramatic (actually a carnage if one was low)
I felt quite relieved to be out of that move.
___
Maybe it’s me.
Probably it is me, so I apologize beforehand.
But isn’t “to discount for any individual, partnership, or corporation, notes, drafts, and bills of exchange when … are … secured to the satisfaction of the Federal Reserve bank” an implicit, if not explicit right to set a price based on whatever they consider to be “satisfaction?”
Let’s look at it this way…..is there any specific statute(s) that say they CAN’T???
Antitrust
antitrust: an overview
Trusts and monopolies are concentrations of economic power in the hands of a few. Economists believe that such control injures both individuals and the public because it leads to anticompetitive practices in an effort to obtain or maintain total control. Anticompetitive practices then lead to price controls and diminished individual initiative. These results in turn cause markets to stagnate and depress economic growth.
Because of fears during the late 1800s that monopolies dominated America’s free market economy, Congress passed the Sherman Antitrust Act in 1890 to combat anticompetitive practices, reduce market domination by individual corporations, and preserve unfettered competition as the rule of trade. The Sherman Antitrust Act forms the foundation and the basis for most federal antitrust litigation.
As for the states, many have adopted antitrust laws that parallel the Sherman Antitrust Act to prevent anticompetitive behavior within local intrastate commerce. Since Congressional jurisdiction does not reach purely intrastate commerce, states needed to pass their own legislation to avoid having anticompetitive behavior depress their own local economies.
…
Types of Prohibited Anticompetitive Schemes
Congress designed these federal antitrust laws to eradicate certain frequently used anticompetitive practices of which the following are a few.
Section 2 of the Sherman Act prohibits monopolization, attempts to monopolize, and conspiring to monopolize. Any such act constitutes a felony. A monopoly conviction requires proof of the individual having intent to monopolize with the power to monopolize, regardless of whether the individual actually exercised the power.
Price-fixing occurs when a company or companies within a given market artificially set or maintain the price of goods or services at a certain level, contrary to the workings of the free market. Section 1 provides that price-fixing is an illegal restraint on trade, regardless of whether a vertical or horizontal scheme. A vertical scheme is a scheme among parties in the same chain of distribution. A horizontal scheme occurs among competitors on the same level.
In 1911 vertical price-fixing schemes became a per se violation of Section 1 when the Supreme Court interpreted the statute in Dr. Miles Medical Co. v. John D. Park & Sons Co., 220 U.S. 373. However, in the landmark case of Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc., 551 U.S. __ (2007), the Supreme Court overturned the 96-year-old Dr. Miles precedent and held that courts should apply the rule of reason when analyzing vertical price-fixing schemes. The ruling renders all vertical limitation schemes subject only to the rule of reason.
Collusive bidding occurs when two or more competitors agree to change the bids they otherwise would offer absent the agreement. Under Section 1, collusive bidding is per se illegal.
A tying arrangement is an agreement by a party to sell one product only on the condition that the buyer agrees either to buy different products from the seller or not to buy those different products from another seller. Tying arrangements are subject to the rule of reason unless the arrangement shuts out a substantial quantity of commerce in which case the scheme is per se illegal.
“Price-fixing occurs when a company or companies within a given market artificially set or maintain the price of goods or services at a certain level, contrary to the workings of the free market.”
To which they would respond with, 13(3) of the Fed Act applies precisely to when there is no market.
“In unusual and exigent circumstances, the Federal Reserve System… may authorize any Federal reserve bank… to discount for any individual, partnership, or corporation, notes, drafts, and bills of exchange … provided … that such individual, partnership, or corporation is unable to secure adequate credit accommodations from other banking institutions.”
If they don’t say “NO”, then it’s a “Yes”.
RECONDO/LRRP School Training Policy Manual 101
(unofficial requisitions, acquisitions or outright theft)
“To which they would respond with, 13(3) of the Fed Act applies precisely to when there is no market.”
If you fix the prices just right, there will be no market.
I admire them.
It was the same for me as 9/11.
While others called them cowards, I looked at brilliant execution.
I never underestimate an enemy or how well they can maneuver.
Hi Muir,
This has been highly constructive dialogue, IMHO.
The Fed, when considered as a foe, not a friend, exhibits so many characteristics that we would normally attribute to a clever enemy.
Who stands to benefit from currently concocted “finacial crises”?
Who stands to benefit from runaway deficit spending?
Who stands to benefit from a “global financial meltdown”?
Gee Whiz - The Fed always comes up holding the trump card, the ability to collect its interest and principal through governmental authority and force.
If the use of the tools is legal, you don’t have to explicitly legalize the results.
If I may use a sledge hammer when and where I choose, no one has to give me permission to knock down the wall.
Isn’t Treasury, with authority from congress, openly doing this by converting debt (prfds) to equity? Isn’t that the point, to prop up prices — keep things from going to zero?
Ssssssssh, you are stating the obvious not a conspiracy.
OT question:
if you and your spouse decided you wanted a change of scenary how would you go about finding the place?
i am a tax accountant and would like to re-locate somewhere in the southeast. my wife is from NY and could only entice her to do so if we were close to a nice beach.
i tried starting with the job first but the searches are to vast. any suggestions or websites? we currently live in northern va.
SC and NC are cheap. Southeastern Virginia (Virginia Beach) is very bubbly. Not sure about Georgia beaches.
1. Determine what you can make a living doing.
2. Find a beachy community that has a lot of that going on.
Michael, look at Wilmington/Wrightsville Beach, NC. It’ll have what you’re looking for.
The RIP list:
http://247wallst.com/2009/04/15/twelve-major-brands-that-will-disappear/#more-30817
Dutch bubble update:
financial markets watchdog AFM is getting very concerned about the Dutch mortgage market. More news keeps surfacing every day about our own versions of the subprime woes. Netherlands has the highest mortgage debt to GDP ratio in the world (120%).
The AFM suggested today that over 100% loans should no longer be allowed, and loans over 4.5x income should only be allowed if the buyer can provide solid proof of future income increases that warrant a higher loan multiple. A 100% loan cap effectively means that the buyer has to bring 10-15% of the price in cash (for closing, moving, furnishing etc.), or take out a personal loan for the amount (which is not fully tax-deductible, like the mortgage itself).
The AFM is worried enough to suggest that these proposals should be enforced within one month. For reference: most current Dutch mortgages are I/O loans at variable rates, for an average 114% of the home valuation. In january the median Dutch home cost 8.5x median income. The AFM proposal was shot down right away by the kleptocrats, without any doubt because the RE mob put heavy pressure on them. One can easily imagine what would happen to the Dutch housing market when these proposals were enforced.
In the mean time, prices keep going down slowly, inventory keeps building from levels that are already at all time highs, and sales numbers are grinding near the lowest level in 50 years or so. According to the Ministry of Truth, homeprices are now 1.5% lower than one year before. At the same time, realtor numbers indicate that homeprices have declined nearly 15% from last summer. Just pick the number you like
Oh yes, the realtors just announced that the bottom is in after a ‘huge’ 3.1% decline. I guess we are going to hear that for a lot of years …
It is with sadness that I have to report on the passing of a prominent La Jollan, Mr. Robert Newhouse Dahlgren, who died on April 7, 2009 and resided in the Hyatt Classic Residence across the street from where I live. Mr. Dahlgren served in World War II in the South Pacific and was a Captain in the U.S. Marine Corps. He served as a Foreign Service Officer and Attache to Norway and Haiti from 1946-49. He was assigned to Caracas, Venezuela until 1952 and was an Attorney for the State Department from 1953-60. He also served as a Political Officer a the American Consulate in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and became the 1st Secretary in the 1960. Mr. Dahlgren retired as an attorney wi the State Department.
You may ask yourself why I would bring this up, but I have a companion story to go along with his life. A few years back, me and my wife were having dinner at a greek restaurant close to where we and Mr. Dahlgren lived. As we were eating dinner, Mr. Dahlgren and his friend proceed to sit down next to us. When the waitress comes over to ask them what they would like to drink, Mr. Dahlgren cuts to the chase and says “I’d like a hot bowl of soup. A bowl of hot soup.” You could see his sharp mind because he knew his first statement could be misconstrued and he might have ended up with a cold gazpacho soup in a hot bowl, thus making it more of a lukewarm soup. Qualifying that first statement with the second ensured he would get what he wanted. Anyways, a little later on this greek restaurant was taken over by new owners and they did the unthinkable and got themselves listed in the top five of my pet peeves. They had the nerve to charge $1.50 for pita bread. What Greek restaurant charges for pita bread? It is not like we got a side of hummus or tabouleh with it. This so offended our sense of culinary justice that we will never sit down at that restaurant again, or until they sell it off to a true La Jollan.
LOL, I didn’t care for Aesop’s Tables when they charged for refills, I accidentally paid like $10 for my lemonade.
Well I finally got banned for giving REIC participants the daily smackdown on the realturd forum at city data. It only took a week.
bwhahahahahahah!
Speaking of, where is FPSS?
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
lmao….
A whole week. You must be getting soft.
Yeah, I was just gonna comment on that.
lmao…. no doubt. Apparently you know me better than I thought.
Hey Exeter,
Good work! You and I may disagree on left vs. right, but we do not disagree on the fact the public needs an education.
CB
Inquiring minds wonder what is “city data.” Thanks.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/
Troll away my HBB brother. Just don’t make any connections to this blog.
mwhahahahahaha!!! Look at what I get when I try to bring up the page…
City-Data Forum Message
You have been restricted due to infractions.
Date the infraction expires: Never
That is really, really, really super funny…
and tragic at the same time.
Omigosh that’s funny!!!! Eternal banishment!!!
I have to say people, it looks like Obama’s strategy to embrace our enemies is working very well, even if Mr. Adultery Newt Gingrich doesn’t think so. I never could understand how anyone could buy the bullshit Bush and his liar buddies were putting out about not talking to our enemies. I am going to say this one more time for those that missed this…
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
I am also glad to see him embrace Castro and Cuba. The Cuban people living in the USA support Obama overwhelmingly, based on a new survey too. Of course this is the right thing to do. What would you rather have? A country 90 miles off our coast that is friendly to us, or one that is hostile?
The Republican mind set is really tragic. It’s like they are afraid of everything. Afraid to talk to our enemies. Afraid of being attacked. Afraid of letting a woman choose. The damn party is just AFRAID.
Nothing to fear but fear itself - and Fox News.
No you don’t have to say.
All the world loves a clown.
Kramer was afraid of clowns.
Bannana are you a lawyer?
Dole accuses banana case attorneys of fraud April 20, 2009 9:41 PM ET
All Associated Press news LOS ANGELES (AP) - Dole Fresh Fruit Co. has accused two attorneys of recruiting clients to make false claims that a pesticide made them sterile while they worked on Nicaraguan banana farms.
Dude, this is NOT a political blog. Please go elsewhere to post this kind of crap.
(sigh).
Here we go again, anyone who does not agree with my hero, Mr. Obama, just HAS to be a Bible thumping, homophobic, anti-porn, anti-choice drone, according to Pigeon Holing Banana Brain!
We are tired of this.
You don’t need to write anything bananaboy. Just enter your handle and everyone will know its the same old rant. Saves time, saves annoyance. If you ever, perchance, have anything to say about the housing bubble, add an asterisk so we don’t skip the entry.
LMAO.
Yep. +1.
Me too.
So I had a bunch of friends down for the weekend… 2 from NYC and one from Boston. They all couldn’t get over how “cheap” housing is here. They all said I should buy a house.
I wonder over the last eight years how many locusts fanned out from NY and CA, saying, “wow, it’s cheap here.” It appears to continue.
How to make big banks bigger.
WASHINGTON – The government’s “stress tests” of 19 large banks take a harsher view of loans than of other troubled assets, according to a Federal Reserve document obtained by the Associated Press. That approach favors a few Wall Street banks while potentially threatening major regional players.
Regulators will use the tests to determine which banks are healthy, which need more capital and which might fail if the recession worsened.
The Fed is scheduled to detail its methodology for the tests on Friday and release the results May 4.
The regulators’ focus could spell trouble for big regional banks undergoing the tests. Their portfolios have more individual loans and fewer of the big pools of securitized loans that Wall Street giants specialize in.
Some analysts said regulators are favoring the largest banks because if even one failed that would pose a severe economic risk. Banks that deal in securities are more interconnected to other corners of the global financial system.
Treasury weighs new mortgage subsidies April 21, 2009 2:05 PM ET
All Thomson Reuters newsWASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Treasury Department is considering giving banks and investors billions of dollars in fresh incentives to modify troubled mortgages and save homeowners from foreclosure, sources familiar with official deliberations said.
Under one scenario, investors in second liens would receive a cash payment if they agree to ease the terms of troubled loans and accept a smaller return on their mortgage investment, the sources said.
During the height of the housing boom, some borrowers were able to buy a home with no downpayment by adding a second lien and many of those loans are now failing as the economy and housing market struggle.
Officials also envision giving fresh subsidies to encourage ’short sales’ in which the lender accepts a payment that does not cover the entire loan amount, according to the sources, who requested anonymity because they are not authorized to disclose details.
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage finance companies, would administer the new program to resolve problems with second-liens under one plan being considered, they said.
People don’t want anything but a principal write down. Banks can’t afford to recognize the write downs. Won’t work.
Hey Texans, Any of you know of internet resources to determine sales data in TX, in particular east texas?
TIA
Regional banks saddled with more loan losses in 1Q April 21, 2009 2:41 PM ET
All Associated Press newsNEW YORK (AP) - Midsize and regional banks are finding themselves in the same predicament as big names like Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan: Facing more losses as more people fall behind on their loans.
Banks like KeyCorp, Huntington Bancshares Inc., Comerica Inc. and Zions Bancorp are reporting losses for the first quarter, while U.S. Bancorp, Regions Financial Inc. and M&T Bank Corp. said profits dropped sharply.
The disappointing reports have been a stark reminder of the troubles still plaguing the banking industry, but many bank stocks rose nonetheless Tuesday after Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told Congress that “the vast majority” of banks have more capital than they need.
Though Geithner’s comments gave the market a boost, the underlying fundamentals in many of the earnings reports are still cause for concern.
Can anyone verify whether it is true that Fannie Mae has relaxed their constraint on the number of homes an individual investor can own from 4 to 10? If so, are all ten mortgages guaranteed?
https://www.efanniemae.com/sf/guides/ssg/annltrs/pdf/2009/0902.pdf
Underwriting and Delivery Requirements
The borrower cannot have any history of bankruptcy or foreclosure within the past seven
years.
The borrower cannot have any delinquencies (30-day or greater) within the past 12 months
on any mortgage loans.
Rental income on the subject investment property must be fully documented according to the
Selling Guide, Part X, 402.24: Rental Income. Rental income from other properties owned by
the borrower must be supported by two years’ federal income tax returns. DU messages
permitting reduced rental income documentation must be disregarded and full documentation
must be obtained.
The borrower must complete and sign Form 4506 Request for Copy of Tax Return or 4506-T
Request for Transcript of Tax Return granting the lender permission to request copies of
federal income tax returns directly from the IRS. The lender must obtain the IRS copies of
the returns or the transcript and validate the accuracy of the tax returns provided by the
borrower prior to the loan closing.
The borrower must have reserves for the subject property and for other properties currently
owned by the borrower (i.e., other financed second home and investment properties) in
accordance with the following section - “Reserve Requirements for Second Homes,
Investment Properties, and Multiple Financed Properties.”
Lenders must use Special Feature Code 150 when delivering mortgage loans secured by
second home and
Is it possible for banks to keep homes off the market without collusion?
Are Banks Withholding Foreclosed Homes to Prop Sales?
By Leslie BerkmanPrint Article Print Article
RISMEDIA, April 20, 2009-(MCT)-Lenders for months have been holding back a high volume of homes in the foreclosure pipeline that could further depress home values if they are released at once into the market, industry experts say. The artificially created shortage of foreclosed homes for sale comes when there is a strong resurgence of home buying, with consumers finding, often to their surprise, that they must make multiple offers to compete for a diminished supply of bargain homes. Meanwhile, financial institutions have been encouraged by federal and state lawmakers to slow the foreclosure process to provide more time to work with borrowers on mortgage modifications in an effort to reduce foreclosures.
Scott Anderson, vice president and senior economist with Wells Fargo, said also by withholding a portion of foreclosed properties from the market, lenders may deliberately be preventing home prices from falling as fast as they otherwise would.
A tally by one company that closely monitors foreclosures showed only about a third of repossessed houses are being actively marketed. If this “phantom supply” of bank-owned houses is put up for sale at once, Anderson said, it would probably prompt another steep plunge in property values.
“The danger is this could be devastating for the banks’ balance sheets and for anyone else trying to sell a house or refinance their mortgage,” he said.
Possible? Is it even desirable?
What would be the incentive for such collusion? Inside knowledge of an impending meteoric economic recovery?
“What would be the incentive for such collusion?”
Withholding supply in order to support prices is a standard result in cartel theory. However, every individual involved has an incentive to cheat on the cartel arrangement. It would be much easier to support such an arrangement with help from a higher power.
I definitely wouldn’t put it past them, in terms of what they would do.
However even if collusion were possible - would it really serve them well to do it? It seems like the small gains obtained by propping up house prices would be more than offset by the carrying costs - especially given that foreclosures have things like cabinets, fixtures, A/C units etc. that tend to “walk away” when they’re unoccupied. Not to mention potential flooding, mold, etc. problems.
I think a better case could be made that banks are just simply overwhelmed by the volume of foreclosures, and can’t keep up with the logistics of foreclosing and selling the massive volume.
*However* - back on the other side of the coin - it’s been said on here that there’s a good chance that they’re holding onto foreclosures with the idea that there’s some new plan in the pipeline for the government to start directly buying foreclosures, of course at “market prices” (where the market price is determined on the level, of course).
Just some thoughts.
Even if the government were to buy the houses at elevated levels, the market clearing price still stays where prices intersect rents and incomes.
There is no magic that can change that.
What about the magic of section 8 housing vouchers?
“I think a better case could be made that banks are just simply overwhelmed by the volume of foreclosures, and can’t keep up with the logistics of foreclosing and selling the massive volume.”
+1
I do wonder if you have to do a lot of work to unwind a sliced and diced MBS before being able to present clear title so that the house can be offered for sale.
What if very few of these foreclosures are actually owned by a “bank”? Does the servicer have any incentive to sell, or do they continue to feed at the trough as long as they can keep it on their books? If the MBS is owned by some town in Finland, who is going to press for liquidation? Do they even know there was a foreclosure and that they are being bled by the servicer?
Good thought — perhaps slicing and dicing the mortgage across MBS puts the house into a sort of limbo status where it cannot be sold, even if it is vacant and the former owner gone?
It sure seems like it is happening in San Diego. I have been looking to purchase a home but inventory has dramatically shrunk while at the same time foreclosures are rising to record levels.
Perhaps there are bulk sales happening before being listed on the MLS.
Where does that shadow inventory go? So far as I can tell, no San Diego homes have been bulldozed — yet…
OH Great Colleges want tuition help for Illegals…
http://cbs11tv.com/local/illegal.immigrant.tuition.2.990013.html
I bet there are a lot of smart CITIZENS out there who would like paid-for college tuition too.
Let the entitlement mentality die already.
What really gets to me is that just about every state is flat broke and yet they provide these kinds of bennies to illegals. Now they want the Feds to provide Pell grants and subsidized loans to illegals.
Here in Colorado there was a major push to grant in state tuition to illegals, while at the same time there was talk of cutting $300 million from the higher ed budget. The bill failed 16-18, and the budget hole remains.
As the robots in the old SciFi movies used to say: Does not compute!
Timmy Testifies, We Take Notes
He said in response to questioning about the asymmetric risks and returns in the Public Private Investment Plan (PPIP) that if you had to sell your house immediately but there were no mortgages available, you would not get a very good price. I think that this is fundamentally the wrong analogy to use, and it reflects a flawed assumption that underlies the PPIP program — namely that the buyers in the market are wrong.
It assumes that the reason that there is no volume in the market for these ‘legacy assets,’ the new term for ‘toxic assets,’ is that there are no buyers, rather than that there are no sellers. This is an unproven assumption at best, although one of the better features of the PPIP is that it should help answer the question of a lack of buyers vs. a lack of sellers.
A better analogy (or at least one that is equally valid) is: suppose you wanted to sell your home, but it has suffered major water damage and is now infested with termites. However, you owe $500,000 on it, and no buyer is willing to pay more than $250,000 for it, and you cannot afford to sell it at that price. Simply because mortgages are available at reasonable interest rates will not make buyers want to buy your house for anything like $500,000.
The big banks like Bank of America (NYSE: BAC - News) are in this situation. The termite damage is the fact that so many of these loans are going into foreclosure, and the losses per foreclosure are much higher than originally modeled. The flood is the fact that the economy has turned sour and there are lots more people who simply can’t pay the mortgage now that they are out of work. If they were to sell for a price that reflects the flood and termite damage, then their equity would be wiped out and they would be insolvent.
The PPIP will only help out the banks if it helps drive up the bids to levels that the banks can afford to accept. To the extent that that price is above the ‘true’ value of the assets, the government (broadly speaking, including the Fed and the FDIC who are providing the non recourse loans) will end up eating the difference.
The Fed will probably deal with the loss by monetizing (turning on the printing press). The FDIC will likely come hat-in-hand to Congress after the fact, looking for a bailout.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Timmy-Testifies-We-Take-zacks-14986772.html?.v=1?sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=&ccode=
Wall Street Journal
* APRIL 18, 2009, 12:57 P.M. ET
Former Fed Poole: Too Big To Fail Needs Urgent Attention
By Emily Barrett
Of DOWJONES NEWSWIRES
NASHVILLE (Dow Jones)–Financial insitutions should be prevented from getting to unwieldy proportions that make them a threat to the financial system, former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis said Saturday.
In a speech at a conference on financial policy hosted by Vanderbilt University’s Owen Graduate School of Management, William Poole said that officials should take more seriously the “extremely important issue” of firms that become too big to fail, necessitating public support in times of crisis.
“They may not be just too big to fail but too big to manage easily,” said Poole, who has joined think tank the Cato Institute since retiring from the central bank last year.
He argued that firms should be constrained so that their financial market activities don’t become overly concentrated.
The trouble with attorneys: They always jump to the knee-jerk conclusion that you need to use draconian legal measures which require pulling the economic optimum out of thin air to define them.
The chance a bunch of attorneys will be able to correctly divine the optimal bank size out of thin air seems pretty slim.
There is no reason the markets could not decide on the economically optimal scale of bank size if it not for the free too-big-to-fail insurance policy for Megabank, Inc, only.
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
Listen to the show
Can antitrust laws break up big banks?
Zephyr Teachout
A congressional committee is discussing criteria to use in determining if a financial institution is too big to fail. Duke law professor Zephyr Teachout talks to Bob Moon about whether antitrust laws can be used to break up the financials.
Bob Moon: As for those economists I mentioned up top? They were talking to another group of lawmakers who were looking at the health of the financial sector today. The Joint Economic Committee in Congress. The focus was size. And what criteria we should use to determine if a large financial institution — say, an AIG — is too big to fail. Two notable economist weighed in, as did the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City. And they all said we should break up big financials and maybe even use antitrust laws to do it. To talk about this latter point we turn to Zephyr Teachout. She’s a law professor at Duke University. Welcome.
Zephyr Teachout: Thank you for having me.
Moon: You know, I have to say that I’ve been scratching my head for quite a while now wondering why the words antitrust haven’t been a bigger part of this two-big-to-fail conversation. Why not, do you think?
TEACHOUT: Historically our antitrust policy is not set up to deal with the kind of financial and political crisis that we have now. That isn’t to say it couldn’t be. But it’s been primarily focused on mergers that threaten the quality of the product and the consumer experience.
Moon: So why not antitrust in the case of an institution, a financial institution, that is said to be too big to fail?
TEACHOUT: Well, several people now are calling for an overhaul of our antitrust framework. Simon Johnson, who was an economist at the IMF and now a professor at MIT, talked about this today in the Congressional hearings. And others have as well. It’s a framework that already exists. So if we strengthen those laws, it could be used to break up the existing, if not monopolies, but overly large companies in banking industry and elsewhere.
Moon: So how do you augment these antitrust laws to apply to the banks?
TEACHOUT: You could pass a new act, which would join the other antitrust law acts — Clayton and Sherman acts. This new law would look at size as an independent variable. That could be a combination of looking at profit, assets or market value but would have a default rule that says no company can become larger than a certain size depending on the industry.
Wall Street Journal
* APRIL 21, 2009, 4:03 P.M. ET
CREDIT MARKETS: Concerns About Banks Continue To Cast Shadow
By Anusha Shrivastava
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)–Concerns over the health of banks continued to cast a shadow over credit markets on Tuesday.
U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner did, however, point to improvements in the credit markets in an appearance before the Congressional Oversight Panel in Washington. These include a drop in credit spreads and a rise in corporate bond issuance. Asset-backed securities’ issuance also is up, he said.
Still, he noted, “Despite these improvements, the cost of credit is still very high.”
Investment-Grade Corporates Trade With Trepidation
Despite Geithner stating that most banks have more capital than needed, high-grade corporate bonds continued to trade with trepidation Tuesday.
The high-grade corporate bond market’s key derivatives index, the CDX IG12, was at 188.187/189.187 basis points going into the close, according to Markit. That’s about 1.7 basis points wider on the day with the market underperforming a rally in stocks after Monday’s sell-off.
It was a busy day for earnings but this provided little in the way of direction, according to Gavan Nolan, vice president at Markit, although he added that the overall tone was negative.
“Despite spectacular first-quarter profits, few credit investors are convinced of the reported numbers or the solvency of certain institutions,” said Vivek Tawadey, head of Credit Portfolio Strategy and of Credit Research at BNP Paribas in London.
“Despite spectacular first-quarter profits, few credit investors are convinced of the reported numbers or the solvency of certain institutions,” said Vivek Tawadey, head of Credit Portfolio Strategy and of Credit Research at BNP Paribas in London.
This is exactly the issue. What did the US financial markets loudly and widely boast about? Well, our deep and transparent liquidity pools! This turned out to be just so much hot air. The banks and hedge funds are so convoluted that we are running a significant risk of ever higher mortgage defaults, commercial real estate crashing, GD II, etc.
So, what have we done to improve this situation? Change mark-to-market so that not even a fortune teller can divine the truth. No, not just back off of the reserve requirements a little, but actually hide the problem. No, you cannot know what risks you run if you invest in these banks and the credit markets in general.
I’m probably wrong about what I am going to write. I am after all a physicist of rather limited financial means. … But didn’t lack of clarity, transparency, and poor or no risk assessment get us into this situation?
I guess I just have to leave these weighty problems to the more capable judgment of my betters. Wall Street has my best financial interests and heart and I should trust them.
Idiots.
Roidy
Dad who killed family, self was $460K in debt, sheriff says
A man who shot his wife and three children to death before committing suicide in Middletown, Maryland, last weekend had about $460,000 in mortgage and credit card debt, the local sheriff said Tuesday.
Deputies who examined a computer taken from Christopher Wood’s home found information that showed “severe financial difficulties,” including money owed on a home in Florida that the family had been unable to sell, Frederick County Sheriff Charles Jenkins said at a news conference.
Wood was a salesman for CSX Railroad, where he earned about $97,000 a year, the sheriff said.
Not gonna celebrate this one. Coward took out his family because he couldn’t control his spending.
That sucks.
bink,
I really hope there is a special HELL for these type of people. These type of people are nothing but cowards, cowards, cowards.
Offing oneself is sad or tragic. Taking out another adult is horrible.
Taking one’s own children is beyond comprehension. There is no greater sin.
I don’t think this is about housing or even spending.
John Douglas (ex-FBI) writes about a class of killer he calls “family killers”, who have a delusion that without their control, their families are doomed anyway. So as soon as something happens to the family that the family killer perceives as out of their control, the killer will take out the family perceiving it as best for everyone. (e.g., John List in the ’70s)
If it weren’t a housing collapse or a depression, it would be a lost job (List’s excuse) or an unplanned expense or a physical disability or whatever else. The economy is just the excuse for what a person with this particular mental illness is going to do anyway, triggered by any circumstances outside their control.
Now that it has become obvious to everyone that we were torturing the shit out of people during the murderous Bush regime, I have to wonder how anyone could have tried to defend it, and reclassify it.
What is torture? It is putting someone under enough pressure that they tell you what you want to know. The goal is always the same. Go as close as you can to the edge, without killing them. Because dead people tell no tales. Some prefer to chop off fingers. Some electrocute. Others use nerves in your teeth.
But they all have one goal in mind. Get you to talk without killing you. Well, at least don’t kill you until you talk.
We are hearing a lot about the American brand of torture we used, and I have to say it isn’t any better or worse than the torture tactics used by other murderous regimes. The goal is always the same.
Do you really think drowning someone a couple hundred times in a month is any less torture than lopping off their finger? Do you really think making someone stand while staying awake in an uncomfortable position for 7 days is any worse than electrocution?
Make no mistake. The people that ordered this shit, or carried it out, or found legal justification for it…are all guilty of crimes against humanity. Every day they walk around free is an outrage.
Wake up Obama. These people need to be removed from society forever. Jail every last one of them, starting with George W. Bush.
You know, I was almost done with it, but you’ve inspired me to add an “ignore” feature to this little HBB extension I’ve been working on. I bet I could make some money off it as a result, too!
I’m thinking that making it a bit more generic so it could easily be configured to work on any Wordpress blog could make it huge…although I’m not familiar with other blogs that get this much comment.
Yeah, I thought about that. I’m not familiar with their comment structure (in HTML), and am specifically filtering only for this blog (thehousingbubbleblog.com).
Looks like I might have some job prospects, so I might have to start budgeting my time..we’ll see.
I forgot to make note of your e-mail addy the other day — I am happy to test in Firefox/Mac OS X if your extension is multi-platform.
ET - I’d post a link to it on the mozilla add-ons web page, but I can’t seem to get it to accept my upload..can’t for the life of me figure out what’s going wrong.
I’m still “beta-testing”, but I think that I’ve got the major features and most of the major bugs worked out, so if anyone’s interested, send me an email and I’ll send you the current version and updates as I churn them out:
drumminj yahoo dot com.
That’d be great. Be sure to include your PayPal address so we can send you tips.
+1 drumminj.
But he did bait me effectively. I would opine that the bastard who planned the September 11th attack should continue to be waterboarded a couple of hundred times a month until he dies of old age.
I was waterboarded 183 times A DAY at the public pool each summer from age 9 to 12. It’s a step above getting a “red belly”. Give me a break.
Question
If you give your gov the power to spy on citzens w/o warrants, to jail them without court review, and to torcher them.
How long do you think it will take before they turn those powers on you. I mean the FED might want to get rid of people like BEN and those that visit this board.
This guy isn’t a citizen. He planned the killing of thousands of Americans, and had actually hoped to be more successful than he was. The information we got from him helped to make his organization less effective and may have save additional lives.
Would the punishment I described be valid for Hilter, Pope Gregory IX, or Stalin?
Beyond that point, to compare this piece of garbage to bloggers is a ridonkulous stretch. Further, I fully expect the US fedgov to continue to step all over the constitution. I may very well be jailed as a enemy of the state at some point, but that won’t make me stop trying. To compare this piece of garbage to bloggers is a ridonkulous stretch.
Do you only do what is right if it doesn’t cause you any pain?
Exactly. Once you cross the line…
Stay on ‘em banana.
Forbes
Real Estate
America’s Most Foreclosure-Ridden Towns
Matt Woolsey, 04.21.09, 05:20 PM EDT
Twenty spots with the highest concentration of bank-owned properties.
Brad Ramos, the police chief of Indio, Calif., population 79,000, does everything he can to contain his town’s foreclosure epidemic. A firm believer in the “Broken Windows Theory” of James Wilson and George Kelling, which advocates fixing problems when they are small, Ramos has municipal water trucks maintaining abandoned lawns and patrols rousing squatters and inspecting vacant homes. His hope? If he can contain the resulting blight, property theft, crime and squatters, he can prevent a distressed local housing market from doing irreversible damage.
But Indio doesn’t have the budget of Los Angeles, or San Diego, or even neighboring Riverside, and these stop-gap measures have little effect.
Article Controls
Still, in a town where on the worst streets, 75% of homes are in foreclosure, Ramos hopes that if he can keep the neighborhoods looking presentable, he might be able to hold out long enough for when buyers return.
“We have to make sure our community doesn’t turn into Stockton or Detroit,” he says.
“We have to make sure our community doesn’t turn into Stockton or Detroit,” he says.
Try Calico.
A commercialized ghost town. It was kind of fun to visit it 25 years ago.
Lots of the old buildings of Calico were moved to Knox Berry farm.
Knox = Knott’s
Here are a couple of links from the New York Times, if they haven’t been posted already (I didn’t see them, but am frequently confused these days).
For Housing Crisis, the End Probably Isn’t Near
(begins with a graph of home price/median income ratio)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/business/economy/22leonhardt.html?_r=1&hp
___________
Erin Go Broke
Then the bubble burst. The collapse of construction sent the economy into a tailspin, while plunging home prices left many people owing more than their houses were worth. The result, as in the United States, has been a rising tide of defaults and heavy losses for the banks.
And the troubles of the banks are largely responsible for putting the Irish government in a policy straitjacket.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/opinion/20krugman.html?scp=1&sq=erin%20go%20broke&st=cse
There should be an FDA for financial products. An FPSA - Financial Products Safety Administration.
All financial products would have to be submitted for approval, just like prescription drugs are submitted for approval.
That might hold at bay another meltdown for a few years. Things will have to get much worse, for longer, before the people change politicians in any significant way. But an FPSA might help preserve many people’s solvency.
Robert Shiller had a similar suggestion. If I remember, he suggested financial counselling be made available for an hourly fee to people as an alternative to real estate agents/mutual funds salesmen (who dispense most advice that people get).
I thought this was pretty interesting, because most good independent financial counsellors in my area will only sit down with you if you already have a decent amount saved up (200,000 minimum). So young people, or poorer people generally go to their bank/realtors/credit counselling society, who generally have a financial stake in the advice they give. Or, they go to friends and family who are maybe dopes, if well-meaning
.
He admitted it wouldn’t prevent another mania, but suggested it could dampen one.