The Housing Bubble

Yes god knows it should be the banks that run the world.

I am under the impression that is the case for every politician.

If you thought that maybe you didn’t know everything and that you shouldn’t be in control of the whole enchilada, then you wouldn’t run for president/congress in the first place. Only know-it-all’s seek out those positions.

“I think that’s really what we are seeing.
The man is clearly obsessed with himself and thinks he should run the world.”

I don’t care much for Obama, but he’s the first (half) black President stuck with being the figurehead for a country that is suffering a horrible financial shock. He’s really got a horrible load to carry and is trying to impress the little guy.

I don’t agree with many of his decisions and his use of the telepromter as a crutch, but if your looking for a megalomaniac I think you’d have better luck in Texas or wherever else the Shrub is sunning himself these days.

MEGALOMANICAL tendencies lately…The man is clearly obsessed with himself and thinks he should run the world. We are in a lot of trouble.

Ahem,

And the megalomaniacal guy who started TWO unwinnable wars, ongoing constitutional and regulatory bungles, creation of the largest national debt of any country in history and then financial Armageddon didn’t create enough trouble for us already?

In my 30+ years in the workforce, I certainly reported to a goodly number of people. In my experience, the micromanagers were those who had Peter Principled beyond their level of competence. They could hang on longer that way than if they just curled up into a fetal position and sucked their thumbs all day.

NSO, you seem to be operating under a mistaken presumption of duality. If Obama/democrat is doing something poorly does not mean Bush/republican must have been doing well. This may come as a surprise, but it IS possible to be something other than a Democrat or Replublican in this life.

Your statement is disjointed as a response. This has also been a consistent behavior by you and something I have difficulty reconciling with your obvious intelligence. Criticism of donkeys is not praise of elephants.

creation of the largest national debt of any country in history and then financial Armageddon

I thought you blamed Reagan.

I blame the root of this crisis on a “revolution” led by an administration in the 1980s…

“TWO unwinnable wars”

We won the wars, it’s the peace we can’t win.

bluprint,

I was responding to the allegation that our new CIC is a megalomaniac. What Diogenes is using as a baseline for “normal” megalomania in a president is unclear, but after reading his posts for a long time now it’s safe to assume that he was a big fan of the previous CIC.

Considering the usual biases of the original poster, my duality isn’t unwarranted.

As far as the Gipper is concerned, I am referring explicitly and exclusively to the economic crisis, not his megalomania (or bipolar mania or hubris or ego…whatever term is being thrown around these days)

Hmmm, let me be more clear: Reagan’s policies were the root cause, but obviously his political heirs continued his ideas to the point of ruin.

Megalomanical is what Hitler had…….our current CIC is exhibiting a bad case of “JimmyCarteritis”.

Bush’s problem was that he delegated too much, not that he micro-managed. Nothing wrong with that, but his problem is that he delegated to the wrong people, and instead of canning them,put personal loyalty before the country’s interests. Like someone said, doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

What Diogenes is using as a baseline for “normal” megalomania in a president is unclear

Agree. I’m not sure I think BO is a megalomaniac at all…but if he is or to the extent he is it seems about par for the profession.

In any case, I just couldn’t figure out how the previous cic being also of the same condition (assuming that is true) was a sound defense for the issue of the current CIC’s sanity. It was just..disjointed as a flow of reason.

If you’re gonna defend your guy, I think you could do a much better job of it than that last post.

mistaken diagnosis.

diogenes ( Tampa )

Well I just wonder if he hasn’t -seriously- over estimated the magnitude of power that comes w/ the office? These aren’t the kind of problems that can be overcome just w/ a “positive mental attitude”?

If only this was something that ‘could’ be solved by “horsepower” alone? In an effort to secure that all important 2nd Term, you have to wonder just what extreme lengths he’ll go to, and if those aren’t doing more harm than good?

The “people” are -already- sucking. We get it. I think people have already come to the conclusion this won’t fix over night? So is this about “us”, or is this about “him”? ( See cobalt’s post above ) ?

It doesn’t matter who is in control of our current Governement. You cannot fix Massive Account Deficits with more Deficit Spending.

I feel like I’m in some Surreal Disaster Film.

OCBear,

My point exactly. However much we might want it, we can’t ‘will’ our way through this? They’ve already written off entire communities that won’t be spared a blight of foreclosures.

Many of the jobs that went away, aren’t coming back. Our standard of living will be permanently affected. Retirements will be postponed or even eliminated. Most of us have figured that much out.

So… we’re supposed to get all invested in the Wreckovery Plan why… again?

…..95% of statistics are made up on the spot!

I think you are 100% making that up.

hehe

Maybe you should check out the turnover percentage in this congress.

You only got a new figurehead.

The vast majority of congressional, state, and local incumbents were reelected. In the private sector, the majority of C-Level officers and board members kept their seats.

Furthermore, Goldman Sachs retained control of the Treasury, which is perhaps the most important non-change of the last election.

Any more “changes” you’d like to point out?

Yes, because the new leaders and their agenda to bail out the rich and crush everyone else are sooo different from the old leaders who did exactly the same thing.

Just swapping the puppets in the puppetshow guys… that’s all it was.

Out of 399 House members seeking reelection, 382 (95.73%) were re-elected. Apparently you don’t recall very much about that election.

oxide,

Oh, in principle I couldn’t agree more! You’d be hard pressed to find someone that’s more about “utility” than myself.

I will say though that the CNBC web-site had a great pictorial slide-show of debt to GDP. I think they called it “Most in-debted Nations”. It was utterly appalling. Ireland, the UK, even the Swiss ( ourselves included ) all at huge… multiples of their GDP.

At some point, whether it’s “good” or “bad” becomes irrelevant. It’s just too much any way you slice it. We’re there.

We’re there…well probably. Now what? Should the US balance the federal budget right this very minute? That is, cut all the funding, raise everybody’s taxes, stop paying Medicare and SS, pull out of every foreign military base, and tell the Chinese thanks but no thanks we don’t need your money?

Mad Max and Oliver Twist meet John Galt? See you in Mogadishu…

Mad Max and Oliver Twist meet John Galt? See you in Mogadishu…

(Head spinning.)

Whoa, that’s quite a dystopian mash-up you created.

oxide,

When compared to the height of the Cold War, we basically *don’t* have any military bases overseas any more.

When I was at Cubi Point in the Philippines in the early 80’s, there were over 40,000 G.I’s on that base alone! That doesn’t count San Miguel, Villanova and the small city that -used- to be Clark Air Base. Then throw in 3 or 4 aircraft carriers along with destroyers, cruisers and minesweepers etc. Darrell in PHX can give you an idea as well.

So many of the “bases” that ‘do’ remain are lonely outposts compared to their former status. Other than Germany, I really don’t know what people are talking about.

Debt is the dream killer. I tell my daughters this frequently, especially when we are on vacation.

Our jobs have been offshored and the same companies offshoring have made up the difference by providing plentiful credit so we do not complain. Now we have a problem … Running out of steam on the credit side and ever worse job situation.

Since Americans no longer can buy stuff we no longer need nearly as many employees and even Chindia is suffering as they have no one to sell their wares to any more.

Another example of short term gain long term pain.

How about replacing our credit cards with paying jobs again like we used to have in America? Do we really need to compete globally on Salary? Third world wages are lower than you think and third world living standards are lower than you think too.

Amen, GH!

When you pay for multi-billion dollar war machines that become obsolete in 10-20 years and fail to repair infrastructure like bridges or invest in R&D, i.e. non-Mideast dependent energy sources, you can’t call it “investment”.

I’m with you, NoSingleOne. If you’re going to throw money around, at least get something for it, like bridges, dams, roads, schools, etc. I think the biggest waste of ‘defense’ money I have ever seen has been the starwars BS that has been going on for more years and billions than I care to remember. And all for nothing.

What if we had spent all that money on something like solar cell technology and manufacturing, or insulating houses, or building high speed trains, or …….. You get the idea. We would be way better off and not relying so much on oil and the oil producing countries. We could have had jobs in this country that actually manufactured something; we wouldn’t just be selling each other houses and insurance and importing food from China, for gods sake.

“What if we had spent all that money on something like solar cell technology and manufacturing, or insulating houses, or building high speed trains, or …….. You get the idea.”

That certainly would have been better, but my point was that “Military Spending” might actually be a better stimulus than any of the hare-brained pork-barrel projects being proposed today.

Speaking of Solar Cells—in Israel, EVERY house has a solar water heater. Of course, their climate is ideal for it. These are simple devices that operate without a pump; the heat from the sun also circulates the water. (There’s also some great solar tech research being done in the desert there; I visited a solar energy lab last year…)

Imagine what could happen to our economy if we were to manufacture and build these solar water heating system for every house in the southwest. We’d create a bunch of manufacturing jobs, and make a small but noticeable dent in our energy consumption. Why can’t we have stimulus programs for things like this?

At one dollar/watt we could have had 700 gigawatts of solar panels in the southwest instead of bailing out doomed to fail banks, and probably saved GM, GE, and Chrysler is the process.

Ummm… 1981 to 2008 is actually twenty-EIGHT years… and I seem to recall that Carter began increasing defense spending from the post-Vietnam lows…

Pentagon is buying overpriced hammers, and expensive toilet tanks.

And yes, they are using Visa cards…owned by the Chinese, and the Saudis.

I see the leftist douches are out once again! If you want to be consistent, how about letting DARPA have their internet back?

I could go into more examples, but I know I would be wasting my time trying to convince the retards. Resume your normal whining about bush, fox, oil companies, etc.

the only one whining is you. Blaming it on so-called ‘leftists’.

Nothing like symbolic gestures to solve a problem. What did the solar panels provide, like about 0.03% of the White House’s energy needs?

In a “trendy” society such as ours symbolic gestures can set a good example and start a trend… hence Michelle’s victory garden, etc.

what would solar panels provide? -plenty!!
-if we really wanted to we could build a city in the desert in a day

the potential for renewal is ever present

Frump.

You ever look at how much energy it takes to process and build solar power plants?

Do you have any idea how much oil is used in power generation?

Answers are a hell of a lot and not much. If you could answer those kind of things correctly there would be a point in having a discussion.

Yeah, no water but plenty of sunshine=fail.

Nothing like symbolic gestures to solve a problem. What did the solar panels provide, like about 0.03% of the White House’s energy needs? Any ref for that 0.03% number.

Nothing like a symbolic gesture of wasting tax payer money to remove something that was saving tax payer money from the roof.

I think the role of government is to help with long range planning. Just because the oil embargo occurred didn’t mean that it wouldn’t happen again. It was obvious even then that America’s oil production was in decline and our consumption was rising. Driving up wastefull consumption and destroying efficiency measures only strengthened big oil OPEC russia Iran ect.

Plenty of energy + air = water, even in the desert.

Muddyfoot, that’s why they are looking at the “smart grid,” way to transport electricity over long distances.

Lets see here, a set of panels measuring 16′ by 16′ will produce 300-400kWH/month in Virginia and cost $30K by the time you factor in the inverter, mounts, labor, and other parts few people consider. At $0.10 / kWH it will take about 83 years to pay for the investment (assuming fixed energy prices).

The government steps up and gives you a $10K credit, so now it takes 58 years to pay for itself. Assuming you mortgaged the panels over 30 years at the artificially low rate of 4.5% and then take the tax deduction on the interest, the panels are still costing you $80/month (Interest Only).

There are only a few situations where panels pay for themselves. If you live in a remote area and the cost of running grid power is high OR if you suspect that the cost of electricity will grow dramatically or that grid power will be unavailable in the future due to hyperinflation.

Even though the tax credits make solar more interesting for the individual, society as a whole is taking real losses and misallocating capital when the government forces investment into an incredibly expensive means of creating electricity.

Note that it is unlikely that your inverter + panels will last long enough to pay for themselves.

There are only a few situations where panels pay for themselves.

If an infrastructure were put in place (much like Eisenhower put in the Interstate Hwy System and Roosevelt put in the Public Works Administration), the spending would eventually pay for itself and even yield dividends not only for the economy but also national security.

Unless you think being forever dependent on Saudi Arabia for oil or spending equivalent billions for dirty Canadian oil is our cheapest and best long term option?

The Interstate Highway System makes us *more*, not less, dependent on foreign oil. If, instead of taxing everyone to build this monstrosity, we had allowed people to come up with their own transport solutions– encouraging tele-commuting, local manufacturing, etc.– we’d use a lot less energy.

It never ceases to amaze me that liberals are always flogging all this “investment” in “infrastructure” and then whining about consumption of resources when people actually use the infrastructure.

”

Lets see here, a set of panels measuring 16′ by 16′ will produce 300-400kWH/month in Virginia and cost $30K by the time you factor in the inverter, mounts, labor, and other parts few people consider. At $0.10 / kWH it will take about 83 years to pay for the investment (assuming fixed energy prices).

The government steps up and gives you a $10K credit, so now it takes 58 years to pay for itself. Assuming you mortgaged the panels over 30 years at the artificially low rate of 4.5% and then take the tax deduction on the interest, the panels are still costing you $80/month (Interest Only).

There are only a few situations where panels pay for themselves. If you live in a remote area and the cost of running grid power is high OR if you suspect that the cost of electricity will grow dramatically or that grid power will be unavailable in the future due to hyperinflation.

Even though the tax credits make solar more interesting for the individual, society as a whole is taking real losses and misallocating capital when the government forces investment into an incredibly expensive means of creating electricity.”

Yep. On top of that, the energy it takes to actually manufacture solar panels is pretty substantial, and the production process involves the use of quite a few substances that are very toxic and envrionmentally unfriendly.

I support a different sort of solar power: solar water heating. A few companies have proposed that they could manufacture “solar arrays” of parabolic mirrors that would reflect concentrated sunlight on water-carrying pipes. The water carried in the pipes would ultimately be converted to steam, which can of course be used to drive a generator. These arrays could be built on open desert land in various southwestern states where the sunlight is plentiful, and they would be much more envrionmentally friendly & efficient than the panels.

LVG,

A) I don’t think telecommuting existed during the Eisenhower Administration. Until it replaces actual commerce, I hope we keep our highways usable for their current capacity.

B) Highways will always be important because we are one nation. The natural and logical extension of our argument in creating a bunch of local fiefdoms is to just have 50 different countries instead of a United States.

C) Investment in infrastructure is not a zero sum game with respect to efficient resource allocation. Telecommuting would be more practical if we had a top flight cyber grid like South Korea’s (Australia will be doing it too, I hear).

The problem with many “conservatives” I know is that they oppose all spending even if the long term benefits are obvious for all Americans, not just Democrat-leaning special interests…unless it is on their own priorities, then they are more profligate than the Democrats.

VTD

Now do your calculation for solar hot water, because that is what Carter put on the Whitehouse not photovoltaic panels. Payback is about 10-15years on the east coast. I don’t know about the rest of you but I’d sure like to be making a risk free 7-10% on my money. Now lets assume energy prices double due to inflation. Payback falls to 5-7.5 years or a return of up to 20% on investment. Photovoltaics are about half as good. I’d still like to be making 3-5% on my investment risk free. Note saving money is not taxed.

Solar hot water makes a lot of sense. You can build a DIY system for about $750 before tax credits and as hot water is the 2nd largest consumer of electricity in most houses, it would produce the same amount of “energy” as a 30K solar system. The return on investment for solar hot water is about a year or less.

I know these things because I have recently done research into both for my own home. As soon as I have some time I will be building a solar hot water heater.

Solar steam power does not make as much sense, it is one thing to heat water up to 140-180 degrees, it is quite another to get it above 212 plus all of the energy of vaporization that you need to overcome before you get to steam.

Bingo.

Feel-good politicians like Reagan are the most dangerous thing ever, IMO.

My family would think me a hero too if we started going on vacation more often, buying a nicer house, going out to eat more often, etc. - all financed by borrowing. It’s only years later when the debt comes back to haunt us that they would realize - maybe I wasn’t such a great Husband/Father for all those things after all.

It’s unfortunate - but I would say that the actual effectiveness of a politician is generally inversely proportional to their popularity (with exceptions of course). Personally I really really like “No” men/women, though they’re generally not very popular, and certainly never get elected president.

“Feel-good politicians like Reagan are the most dangerous thing ever”

So who do you prefer, feel-bad politicians like Carter?

I’m not defending the excessive borrowing and spending under Reagan, but malaise and existential ennui don’t help either.

bush and obama are spending trillions cuz of reagan?

Perhaps the generation that wanted to borrow its way to prosperity invented Reagan (and others).

“bush and obama are spending trillions cuz of reagan?”

In large part - yes.

A. Reagan really got the federal deficit ball rolling. This has reached the extent such that last year we paid $451 Billion in interest on the national debt - more than the annual deficit itself. In other words - without paying for the interest on the debt, we would have had a net surplus in 2008. Obviously this won’t be true for a while going forward, but see B:

B. The single biggest personal cause of the housing bubble - Alan Greenspan - was appointed by Reagan.

i’m not sure reagan “got the ball rolling” as a percentage of GDP.

and the fed chairman is appointed every 4 years not 20 years.

Perhaps you have forgotten that Greenspan was the Fed Chairman for 19 years, having been appointed by Reagan and re-appointed by Bush I, Clinton and Bush II…

No the Fed governors are appointed every 14 years, and may be re-appointed, and the Chairman is picked from the existing governors. It’s not clear what the criteria is for appointing the chairman, but Greenspan was first appointed chairman in 1987 by Reagan, and remained until 2006.

And while spending as a percent of GDP didn’t rise that much under Reagan - it was mostly because GDP itself rose tremendously, since we were coming out of the horrendous 70’s/early 80’s recessions, and didn’t experience another recession until 1990. I’m not really sure Reagan can get credit for that luck, but he can get credit for the big rise in deficits during that time (though Congress is also to blame to be sure).

i will just summarize ron paul to end my participation in this political discussion.

this has been in the makings since 1976. no one administration is to blame for this. doing say detracts from finding a solution.

i will just summarize ron paul to end my participation in this political discussion.

this has been in the makings since 1976. no one administration is to blame for this. doing say detracts from finding a solution.

I would agree with that. The more I learn, the more I realize that the president has very little to do with the actual economic welfare of the country. And that includes Obama.

In many cases the president is merely a mouth, or a pen, for the true PTB.

packman, please do not tell me I am wrong when I am right. It is true that Fed governors have 14 years terms and that the Chairman is picked from exisiting governors, but the Chairman’s term is 4 years…

Here is the relevant quote from the Fed’s website http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqbog.htm

“As stipulated in the Banking Act of 1935, the Chairman and Vice Chairman of the Board are chosen by the President from among the sitting Governors and must be confirmed by the Senate. They serve terms of four years and may be reappointed as Chairman or Vice Chairman until their terms as Governors expire.”

Europe and Japan didn’t have CRA, and they seem to have the same issues or are even worse off.

Explain.

Obama got handed the worst economic disaster in our lifetimes. I don’t agree with his overall plan, but I feel like he at least holds himself accountable, and that at least some spending is unavoidable.

The previous (who has spent more than Obama during a period of record profits) still only admits in interviews that he had “a good strong record”, with very few mistakes.

Yeah, right…

“…Socialism, communism, and fascism are all proven failures throughout history;”

So now, it would appear, is capitalism.

One hopes, (yes, hopes,) that with enough thoughtful goodwill and compromise, we as a nation can overcome our tendency to believe that simplistic solutions can solve complex realities, and come up with a viable permutation that works within a constitutional framework.

Or, we can just spout platitudes and whine.

Wonderful thought…..

But in my experience, the biggest believers in “simplistic solutions” are on the left of the political spectrum.

?

“So now, it would appear, is capitalism. ”

We haven’t had capitalism in the US for quite a long time.

In the USA, you can sue anyone you like

Not so. Try and sue your cell / home phone company, your bank or credit card issuer, your cable tv company, Insurer etc. You are now required to take them to binding arbitration which is very expensive to prosecute and almost impossible to win regardless of fault.

Used to be you could take them to small claims and have a fair chance if you had a decent claim.

it’s easy to win in binding arbitration too, if you have a legitimate case. it only gets expensive when you don’t.

this is just like the legal system.

Small Claims court is the appropriate venue for small claims, not binding arbitration. Binding Arbitration was designed to ensure citizens do not risk suing. Corporations hated small claims because they actually had to respond to the complaint.

As for binding arbitration being easy to win, keep in mind ANY complaint a consumer may have is “frivolous” almost by definition. Consumers who do go to arbitration face an expensive and difficult battle, resulting in a 95% loss rate. Best just pay that cell phone cancellation fee even though you dont get a signal at your home any more. Be a good consumer and pay up!

The current drive to make carbon dioxide a toxic substance is the end times conclusion of this trip. The conclusion of that trip will be a locked-up, stagnant economy where you have to pay a tax to exhale.

It’s important to point out that if the effect of taxing carbon dioxide production is replace domestic steel* production with imports, than we have INCREASED the carbon footprint of products that contain steel.

*I’m using steel for this example because there is really NO WAY manufacture it without considerable carbon emissions.

You could require the steel importer to purchase the same carbon credits that a domestic producer would have had to purchase for producing/shipping the steel in the same manner. It would cost, but it is the obvious answer to the disadvantage to domestic production under a carbon credit system.

“our recent Dark Age of public health safety (2000-2008),”

Do you have any statistics on this, or is this just yet another partisan spit-ball?

Here’s one example for you:

About 20 years ago, Congress established the Toxics Release Inventory (TRI) to publicly disclose the amount of toxic pollution released (via air or water) by industrial facilities in the US.

From 1988-2004, releases of the original 299 chemicals tracked by TRI fell about 60 percent. The program currently covers 654 toxic chemicals, which represent less than one percent of the more than 75,000 chemicals manufactured in the US. Obviously it could be more stringent, but it’s been considered fairly transparent and effective.

In 2005-2006, the administration tried to completely gut the TRI, removing all sorts of reporting requirements for many facilities and certain chemicals, and making the reports biannual (e.g., during an odd year, facilities wouldn’t have to report anything).

The full-scale gut was shot down by Congress, thankfully, but the administration did manage to weaken it considerably, removing some reporting requirements for some highly toxic chemicals that bio-accumulate in our food chain, and eliminating reporting for many other chemicals on the list in quantities under a ton. Hey, we only put 1,900 lbs. of toxin X into your drinking water this year, you don’t need to know about it!

Now couple that with all sorts of less quantifiable actions, like refusing to enforce existing laws or prosecute violators.

Like I’ve been saying…can someone point out the equivalent of the AAA office in India or China that provides maps for your vacation?

Lehigh, I posted a lengthy example concerning toxic chemicals, but not sure when or if it’ll appear …

“Do you have any statistics on this, or is this just yet another partisan spit-ball?”

I love this description! This blog is usually completely covered in spittle at day’s end.

Edgewater is right. And it isn’t a spitball, partisan or ?
Dark Ages of public safety currently is lack of oversight- not enough inspectors and no ‘teeth’ in the punishment of cleanup.
As long as you/corp gets away with it… like many companies adhere to, the odds are in their favor.

“The full-scale gut was shot down by Congress, thankfully, but the administration did manage to weaken it considerably, removing some reporting requirements for some highly toxic chemicals that bio-accumulate in our food chain”

Well, that’s a start– to complete the chain, you’d have to show that anyone was actually made ill by any of these chemicals, and that the scale of the harm compares with what anyone might consider the “Dark Ages”. Then you might have a case that 2005-06 was the “Dark Ages”, but dating it from 2000-2008 makes it sound some other vendetta in mind…

A.) That’s just one example with which I happen to be quite familiar. Try using The Google (try “E. coli” and “beef inspection” perhaps) and you can find dozens of other specific examples where the Bush administration shortchanged the public’s safety in favor of corporate interests. Go on, I dare ya.

B.) Maybe some of our dyed-in-the-wool anti-regulation friends would like to put their skeptical bravado into practice and volunteer to ingest some of these toxins themselves, for scientific purposes? Nothing to fear — these are chemicals that the previous administration thought could be released in much larger quantities with no adverse effects. Then you can tell me whether “anyone was actually made ill by any of these chemicals.” Perhaps we can start with compounds shown to increase sexual mutations in other animals? Or neurotoxins, maybe? I’d be happy to provide a detailed list.

C.) You entirely missed the point of my original post.

I for one don’t understand how you can blame the unions for the demise of GM and the rest. If you have a high school educated assembly line worker in Detroit working for GM and the same working for Honda in Mississippi, whats the difference? The difference is, that in Mississippi, their health insurance is subsidized by the Japanese government. Like it or not, our politicians killed the big three with trade agreements. Another point is quality. I hear so often about the foreign manufacturers having better quaility. Doesn’t anyone realize, that they all buy their parts from the same suppliers? Americans are ignorant when it comes to quality. How many Americans can even change their oil or a spark plug. You don’t need a college education to change a cars oil…
Now, how about those uneducated hish school slobs making $50.00 an hour on an assembly kline. Does anyone who cheated their way thru college really believe their better and desreve higher wages, because of their education. A college education is the most overrated piec of garbage in this country. I’d rather work with a person who has common sense, than an MBA.
As long as I’m on this rant, how about all the veterans of ww2. Most of them fought and died for this country, without a college degree. Many of them came back, joined unions and made this country, what it was 30 yrs ago. When i was vice president of a major contruction company, building paper mills, back in the 70’s, I trusted the workers advice more than I trusted engineers and accountants.I promoted from the workers ranks, because they knew what it took to build things and they could change their own oil. They were straight up and straight down people. Not the kind of self entitlement kids graduating from college in recent years, who can”t even tell you where Texas is located without a gps. As union employess in the 70’s some of these guys made over $40.00 an hour on their checks. they were well worth the money. Its intersting to note, that since Reagan busted the air traffic controllers union, this country has lost the majority of its unions. The likes of which have created a society of associates. A country of me oriented self serving, un-educated college grads, believing that they are owed a living. Puitn of Russia has it right. Send all the MBAs and bankers to siberian labor camps.

Unless everyone else did it. Then it would have worked out fine.

Does anyone who cheated their way thru college really believe their better and desreve higher wages, because of their education. A college education is the most overrated piec of garbage in this country. I’d rather work with a person who has common sense, than an MBA.

Gosh, I hope you never turn on your TV again. Or drive over a bridge. Or have to go to a doctor.

Terry,

A company can’t pay a worker $40/hour if the competition is paying theirs $5/hour. They’ll be out of business. And there is a world of people out there that are happy to take $5/hour because it represents an improvement to their standard of living. Like it or not, that’s Capitalism.

Terry- terrific post

and oxide- you even said it in your post- he was not saying a doctor or an engineer but a freakin MBA. What do they do? Learn to rob us with a fountain pen. A pox on ‘em

Res ipsa loquitur, Terry. With eloquence.

a nickel?

Polly, I suspect that a difficulty here would be trade treaties. Foreign exporters would argue that this constituted a tariff on imported steel. Hardly insolvable, but just another layer of complication.

oops, that was a bad post.

At some level, they bet ~30 years ago that barriers to entry into the U.S. auto market would be high enough that it didn’t matter if legacy costs grew. If all three automakers are saddled with them, there’s no competetive disadvantage. In the 70s few believed that foreign makes would ever be anything other that a niche market.

It looks like a tariff, but if it was imposed and calculated on foreign producers in exactly the same way it was imposed and calculated for domestic producers, I think they would be sh– out of luck. Emphasis on the “I think.” I’ve dabbled in international trade/WTO stuff but it was a while ago and it was just dabbling.

It’s about pensions given out for years of service without an age requirement and then being shocked that 50 year olds take the pension and live to ninety.

A little OT, but it had occurred to me that the reason Disney made the movie Tinkerbell was to encourage little girls to - if you can’t be a princess - take up engineering.

If you’re one of the underprivileged minorities or a female engineering isn’t a bad choice. In order to fulfill Diversity quotas you’ll spend very little time doing actual engineering, quickly moving up into managerial roles with higher pay.

+1 Skip, my BIL is almost exclusively looking for his next gig in China. They still need experienced engineers there.

You can pay Indian & Chinese engineers 1/10 the wages. Of course when you’re done, they are the only ones who know how to make stuff.

But globalization = liberty.

Us engineers have a joke about a lot of other disciplines (e.g. poly sci, journalism, etc.) -

What did the xxxx graduate say to the engineer?

“You want fries with that?”

(It also works for schools - e.g. “What did the UNC graduate say to the NCSU graduate?”… )

Having graduated with an engineering degree, I would not recommend anyone doing the same. I see very little upside in the future of engineering in the US.

Ditto, I changed degrees because I saw friends and family dealing with corporate disdain for people who actually work and produce something. All the money goes to management.

But globalization = liberty.

From you it’s sarcasm. But I believe the phrase above. Nice to get lost in the shuffle.

I hope the day comes super fast when each of us must become multilingual, gives up on conservatism (by definition, conservatism is resistance to change) and becomes a sovereign individual, not thinking himself as a citizen of a country, but a trader of his skills on the world market for the most amount of money.

BIL, my jaw just hit my keyboard.

100% agree.

People take a look at me and I appear to be a Bible thumping law-abiding sheep. You cannot judge a book by its cover. I like to keep people guessing. Funny thing is I had this philosophy and lived it for all my life. Even my dad (and he was seriously a very smart guy) mistakingly thought I was conservative. How many times do I have to say I voted Libertarian in every election since 1978 (except I had brain flatulence once and voted for the shrub in 2004)?

Actually I’m surprised that you agree with my statement. I think you like my dislike of people who are resistant to change.

!!!!

That was when the easy bubble money was flowing. Go to one of the homeless camps in California detroit ect, and see how many US citizens would take a job paying $12 bucks an hour now. My guess is you will see a lot of hands. Again they devalued real work, and instead paid people to skim off borrowed money.

Everyone has a price, Measton. Heck, I’d love to pick cherries for a living if I could make the same salary. I’ll even live in a tent and take weekly showers if needed.

Most people are in no shape to harvest fruit. Not at the speeds & volumes expected. It would be a rude awakening for most folks, even the fitness-obesessed.

That does nothing to change the point that:

These aren’t jobs Americans won’t do, they are jobs Americans won’t do AT A THIRD WORLD WAGE.

If we are going to allow unmitigated migration we need to also remove the minimum wage.

See my post above about how it has been a long time since the US really had capitalism.

That video reminds me of something out of Starship Troopers.

NPR had a blurb on this a.m. about reviving MoTown……

Temptations anyone?

Yes, in a perfect world.

In our non-perfect world it requires:

talent + drive + financing

Who’s going to bankroll the good scripts? We’re getting a steady stream of pap and remakes of yesterday’s winners because the moneymen have a VERY limited view of what’s box office.

Philly, there has never been a better time to make a film. The moneymen no longer control the means of production.

Muggy, we’ve talked about related issues several times before — it’s a great time to make both films and music; the technology keeps getting better, more robust, and more accessible.

The problem is getting your creative output seen and heard, and (if it’s a goal) making some money off it. The money-making and distribution aspects of the business no longer favor the big boys exclusively, but whatever the new song-and-dance becomes, the former Big Swinging D!cks of the media world will try their darnest to gain control again.

Gramm was guilty of many sins. Why has Texas elected so many national politicians who attack freedom and common sense?

The real question is whether the Obama administration will keep to its word of forcing a bk or will simply hand over more bailout cash for nothing. The chances are still pretty good that the latter will happen, which would leave GM hanging in limbo a while longer.

Technically GM isn’t bankrupt if the govt pays the bill. This should be the only reason there’s doubt, though your ’slow’ theory is probably more accurate.

“C” all of the above.

“A” was inadvertantly revealed by the GM CEO when he called the guvmint “a major owner” despite the fact that they’re merely a lender to this point.

“B” is exhibited by the fact that GM is still trading.

“Technically GM isn’t bankrupt if the govt pays the bill. This should be the only reason there’s doubt, though your ’slow’ theory is probably more accurate.”

If your business needs government cash to remain in operation, it’s bankrupt.

The amount of delusion among the public when it comes to GM/Chrysler has been astounding. GM *might* be able to be reshaped into something workable via Chap 11, but the process is going to be messy and very damaging to the economies of the Rust Belt states. GM is still set up to be producing HUGE volume - but it hasn’t managed to sell that kind of volume since at least the mid-80s. Making GM viable again is going to mean shuttering a *lot* of factories and dealers and laying off a ton of people…which is going to make many communities furious and desperate. And let’s hope Obama doesn’t pursue a sort of “American Leyland” state-owned setup and get the government in the business of building cars.

Chrysler, as I’ve said before, is all but dead and buried. It’s own product line is terrible… and its “savior” Fiat currently has debts running into the billions of Euros and has bad cash flow problems of its own. It should go Chap 7 ASAP.

What do you get when you cross a Fiat and a Jeep?

wasn’t endorsed by W.H.O.R.E.?

lol @ acronym

Just this a.m. I was thinking about a “manager” to whom I reported when I worked in the REIC.

Dumb as a box of Kotex.

OrangeJulius and Reuven, I must agree. They look prouder than a pair of retards in the principals office.

Of course looks are an excellent predictor of intelligence, professional accumen, dedication, initiative….

I don`t have any stats but I have 2 sisters that have made fantastic financial decisions. One married and one single (divorced).

His answers indicate to me he is scared to tell the truth.

Umm, you were right the first time!

You are confusing the first time with the second time. Measure twice, cut once.

Yep, I did.

Why is gold in there?

Lol…

I think in 2020 I’ll be long Ibuprofen and rogain.

Muggy, I’ve been a frustrated gold bug since the 70s.

She just doesn’t put out!

Maybe another spike in the next generation. I’ll be long gone.

I’m long redheads. Better returns. Still can get burned though!

Also known as an L with a dead cat bounce?
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….\……/\
……\…/..\__________________

I guess it depends on the size of the gamble that depended on the sign error…

lol

FPSS, before I read your reply I had formed my own, also starting with, “the difference between” but mine ended with, “an A and a D”.

Sadly, spoken from life experience.

SNAP!

Many banks did, but in CA they passed a law that put an automatic non voluntary cooling off of 90 days. We just got past that bulge in the snake in February and the NOD numbers are again starting to take off.

I imagine MA would be similar. I recall they had a legislated moratorium as well.

“I believe that the coastal areas have a LONG way to go down. However, inland, prices have already fallen 50-60% and are affordable relative to incomes and rents.”

Falling prices in coastal areas will suffocate the price levels in less desirable areas, much as an ash cloud from Mt Vesuvius smothered the townsfolk of Pompeii in AD 79.

Wasn’t there a story about an elephant handler who was smothered by fecal matter after the laxative finally kicked in?

I fail to recall if the elephant was under the rug.

Right. You are talking about places 20 miles or more from the ocean. Of course, this is the Inland Empire, Coachella Valley, “Palmcaster,” Victorville, and the “San Jokin’ Valley” towns such as Fresno. Some of those places certainly have fallen “50-60%” and you will see them fall further! I’m thinking 70 to 80% from the peak!

In the farm belt if you want to buy a house 20% of its peak, be sure to remember you are breathing some of the most polluted air in the nation. When you plant your garden and use groundwater, consider the pollution from decades of farm chemical usage that seeped into the water supply and migrated for several decades, even after being banned!

Did your 8 ball get a promotion from VeeP Risk Management to CFO?

It was Muggy’s not mine but, why yes, my good man, I do believe it did!

Hmmm… I like summers in Florida. Last year I went to St. Pete Beach for July 4th long weekend, and the weather was perfect. A bit of thunderstorms in the afternoon didn’t spoil the trip.

I have a terrific recipe with chicken thighs in a spicy cumin-laced carrot-juice-glaze.

It’s the slight heat + cumin that takes the edge of the sweet carrot-juice glaze.

Not sure how well I’ll fare in the rhinestone-decorated high-heels prancing contest, but I did once wear a pink sparkly tiara to a “funny hat party”—and I like to think I pulled it off. So I’m confident enough not to shy away from a touch of gender-bending. Bring on the heels!

but I did once wear a pink sparkly tiara to a “funny hat party”—and I like to think I pulled it off.

I bet you did, and I bet you were simply radiant.

So I’m confident enough not to shy away from a touch of gender-bending…

Se*xy!
But, if I may ask, Primette, are you also going to orange glaze your bre*asts?

*falls off chair giggling loudly *

Heya girlfriend!!

It’s evening here.
Just saw a pretty blimp (Goodyear) fly by pretty close.
Had some great streaming blue neon advertisement.
It was a blade runner kinda of moment from my balcony.

Today, lots of ships and sailboats in the bay.
Birds flew by, could see the distant lighthouse perfect weather,
what can I say?
It was perfect.

*leaps back up off floor with excitement *

Ooooh! I LOVE ‘Blade Runner’. I remember when it came out, man, how much I wanted to see it! Since I was in 3rd grade, I think, thereabouts, and being raised in a fundamentalist Mormon household, guess what?
I did not get to see it, that’s what.
Surprise, huh?

But I remembered my desire and cherished it in my heart, and when I got old enough to cut classes and drive to the video store, then I got it, and verily, I did watch it 3 times on that glorious day.

And, more recently, I got the uncut directors edition when it came out, and I promised myself I could watch it when I was good. Which is why it’s on top of my console, all dusty and thus far unwatched. I haven’t been good enough to deserve it, yet.
What is it, like two years now, since it came out?
I should probably be good right away, because I want to watch it.

I have it too!

And as soon as they have a blue-ray thingy version of it, well, that’ll be it. I will have to buy the blue ray gigamazig machine!

I’d say blade runner is one of my all time favorites!

That big blue zep flying by my balcony was a trip.
Alas, no music.

I’d say blade runner is one of my all time favorites!

Yar! How did he make it so good? Ridley Scott? Actually, I don’t want to know, it’s like magic, and best left un-analyzed.
It’s so old a film, and it looks so fresh and bold, every time I see it. I think it’s because he made the future all grimy and grubby and natural. Therefore it’s absolutely believable.

(Oh, and I went and looked, and the uncut version did indeed come out in 2007, which tells me I haven’t been good for two whole freakin’ years. Deplorable! I better get cracking on that. )

HBB = moremque sinistrum sacorum