The Damage Is Already Done In Florida
The New York Times reports on Florida. “While prices have declined, they have not dropped off a cliff in South Beach because many of the newer developments were completed, and sold, before the market shifted in 2006. But South Beach has not entirely escaped the wave of foreclosures and short sales that have swept the rest of the state. An oceanfront town house is listed as a short sale at $1.7 million; it sold for $3.2 million in 2006. A bank-owned condo in a luxury high-rise, stripped of its fixtures, was purchased for $1.35 million in 2006 and is now in foreclosure at $599,900.”
“The influx of high-rises has affected sales of single-family homes in Miami Beach. Among those homes is a renovated eight-bedroom villa on the Indian Creek Waterway with luxury amenities The villa went on the market for $11 million; now it is listed at $7.9 million. Sheri Falco, a lawyer who bought a two-bedroom bungalow with a yard near Flamingo Park in 2005, has dropped her price to $499,000 from $675,000.”
“‘I show my house constantly, but I haven’t gotten an offer yet because it’s still a little bit high,’ she said, explaining that she does not want to go lower based on what she owes on her mortgage. ‘I bought it at the height of the market, and I’m trying to sell it at the current low market — that’s how I roll,’ she joked, citing efforts to chase millionaire status during the dot-com boom. ‘Maybe I’ve learned my lesson.’”
From Marketplace. “When it comes to those falling housing prices, Miami has taken one of the biggest hits according to the Case-Shiller index — (a) 30 percent drop from a year ago. And according to the Florida Association of Realtors, prices for condos have fallen as much as 10 percent faster than for single-family homes. For some investors and would-be-homebuyers, smells like opportunity. But you better do your homework first.”
“Dan Grech: Steve Economou and his wife Janie were tired of winters in Boston. So they followed a path laid by generations of Northeastern retirees. They became snowbirds. Steve Economou: ‘I was interested in getting a place in Florida and I didn’t want to be left out. Prices came down and I figured I might as well take advantage of it.’”
“Economou bet much of his life savings about a month ago on a winter home in Boca Raton. He paid $157,000 in cash for a two bedroom, two bath condo on a golf course. Economou says he didn’t do much research into the condominium complex he bought into. Economou: ‘We just took a chance and we hope we’re lucky.’”
“Buying in a depressed market can also mean hidden costs. Like huge first-year tax bills. Realtor Doug DeWitt says this has become a big problem in some luxury condo buildings in Miami. Doug DeWitt: ‘There were units selling as high as $800,000. And some of these were staged transactions that involved mortgage fraud. Now those same units are up for sale, you know, as low as $150,000, $200,000. But the assessed value within the county tax assessor’s office still reflects that fraudulent, hyper-inflated value of $800,000.’”
The Wall Street Journal. “Investors and second-home buyers account for a stunning 60% of the nearly 13,000 new condo units sold in downtown Miami since 2003, according a report. It could become the largest concentration of tenants in the Southeast–if not the country, the firm says.”
“‘There is an enormous number of unwanted condo units. The oversupply in downtown Miami is absolutely massive,’ says Brad Hunter, chief economist for Metrostudy. But there’s a silver lining for all those renters. ‘They’re going to have the opportunity to live in a brand-new luxury building for a very, very low rent considering the quality,’ says Mr. Hunter. ‘This is unprecedented.’”
From Florida Today. “When Joe and Anna Chan decided to rent out their Viera home instead of moving into it, they didn’t consider going it alone. The Miami residents knew the long-distance landlord life couldn’t work, so they hired a property manager. It’s a service homeowners are turning to when they’re unable to get the selling price they want in today’s market.”
“‘They want to hang on until the value comes back,’ Matt Marshall said of today’s homeowners-turned-landlords. He’s a partner in Thomas Kay Realty Property Management in Melbourne with his wife, who is a Realtor. The company grew fast in the beginning through working with builders who were quickly building and selling homes to investors before the market slowed. Today, the company manages about 80 properties; for every property it loses to a short sale, it gains a new one.”
“The increase in properties available to rent has put downward pressure on rental rates. When the couple started the business three years ago, a typical rental income for a 1,500-square-foot, three-bedroom, two-bath home in Southeast or Southwest Palm Bay might have been $1,250. ‘Now, maybe we’ll get $875,’ he said.”
“Most homeowners who rent out newer homes can expect their rental income to fall short of their monthly mortgage payment. As he tells prospective clients, ‘what your mortgage is has absolutely nothing to do with what you can charge in rent,’ Marshall said.”
“Joe Chan uses Real Estate Direct to manage his Viera property. The couple built the home in 2007 expecting to move into it to be near their extended family. But because of business interests in Miami, they haven’t been able to relocate. And because of the slow real estate market, they don’t expect to get the price they want quickly.”
“The home was rented during 2008, and those tenants moved out in February. They’re asking $2,200 in monthly rent for the four-bedroom, three-bath pool home, or $535,000 for a sale; both prices have been lowered recently. ‘I don’t have the ability to be there,’ said Chan.”
The Orlando Sentinel. “If no new houses were to hit the Metro Orlando market for the rest of the year, it would take more than eight months to sell the ones already built but still vacant, according to a new report. The four-county metro area has more than enough finished-but-vacant new homes to cover the population of a town the size of Eatonville.”
“Metro Orlando single-family starts, for instance, were down 41 percent in the first quarter to 863 units compared with the same period last year — and last year’s 1,463 first-quarter starts were down 59 percent from the year before. ‘It is encouraging that new-home inventory continues to decline, but the supply of existing homes far outweighs new-home inventory,’ noted Anthony Crocco, director of the Metrostudy’s Central Florida division.”
“Two factors that could flood the market with even more homes: the many unresolved foreclosures still tied up in court, and the ’shadow inventory’ of houses ready for market that simply haven’t been added yet to Realtors’ MLS.”
The News Press. “The number of foreclosure actions filed in Lee County fell almost 10 percent since April 2008, the first year-over-year decline since 2006. There were 1,954 foreclosure filings in April, down from 2,160 a year ago and down from 2,217 in March, according to the Southwest Florida Real Estate Investment Association.”
“The median price of an existing home sold in Lee County plummeted in March to $88,500 — the lowest since it was $78,500 in December 1998. But Realtor Bob Osborne of Coldwell Banker in Cape Coral said the number of empty homes on the market is starting to decline. He said the inventory of homes in the Cape was about a six-month supply, a quarter of what it was last year.”
“‘That’s down significantly,’ Osborne said, but he said it was too soon to guess when prices might start increasing. ‘There are thousands more (foreclosures) to come,’ Osborne said.”
“It’s a hot afternoon in North Naples and construction crews are hammering down plywood on the roof of a new addition to the Quail West luxury community. The project stands out in this slumping market of 2009: its builder, Florida Lifestyle Homes of Fort Myers, doesn’t have a buyer yet for the nearly $3.4 million estate home.”
“One incentive to build now rather than waiting is the low construction costs. Robert Greco, president of Acra Electric in Cape Coral, said his prices have dropped sharply because of the increased competition for contracts. ‘The market is significantly different,’ he said. ‘Projects that had four or five bidders now have 20.’”
“At Levitan-McQuaid Real Estate Services in Naples, many of owner Ann Levitan’s clients are still hunting for deals. ‘We have quite a few buyers waiting until May and June to see if any sellers get desperate,’ Levitan said.”
“Many wealthier home buyers she works with have seen their portfolios plunge in value. ‘Someone in the past who might have been looking at a $4 million house is now looking at a $2 million house,’ she said.”
The St Petersburg Times. “Steven and Judy Patterson thought they had found the perfect home in Sterling Hill. Then, two days before their closing in mid April, a second inspection confirmed their fears. The unusual smell inside wasn’t only because the new house had sat empty since 2006. The home was riddled with defective Chinese drywall.”
“During the housing boom between 2004 and 2007, millions of pounds of drywall were imported from China to meet the high demand. The drywall has been associated with a rotten-egg, sour or chemical odor, particularly when exposed to Florida’s humidity and heat. Home inspector Tom Herman said the problem of Chinese drywall is so new that a lot of home buyers and homeowners don’t know what to look for. In fact, inspectors often miss it.”
“It may have been used in 100,000 homes nationally and 35,000 in Florida, according to the Associated Press. For the Pattersons, whose purchase fell through after their second inspection, their dream home might have been a nightmare. Herman, the inspector, estimated a fix might run $50,000 to $60,000.”
“‘I had never heard of Chinese drywall in Hernando County,’ said Terisha Miller, the Realtor working with the couple since last fall. ‘It was a brand new house — never been lived in. (But) we kept coming back to the smell,’ she said.”
The Bradenton Herald. “The ‘pink palace’ has joined the growing ranks of Manatee properties threatened with foreclosure but its developer says he still hopes to restore it to a luxury hotel. Regions Bank sued the owners of the historic downtown landmark last week, claiming they defaulted on a $2.625 million loan used to buy the building, court records show.”
“River Grande Development Inc. bought the property for $3.5 million in 2005 with plans to renovate the former senior-housing complex into condominiums. Those plans later changed to a proposed luxury, boutique hotel after the condo market crashed. Tax records show River Grande Development paid $48,789 in 2006 taxes on March 25 of this year, but its 2007 and 2008 tax bills remain unpaid.”
“Darrell Reha said he had hoped to avoid the foreclosure filing, but it became unavoidable after Regions froze the developer and hotel operators’ lines of credit. ‘They worked with us as much as they could but I guess they couldn’t hold off any more,’ he said.”
“Like most credit unions, Eastern Financial Florida Credit Union cites modest roots, formed more than 70 years ago for pilots of now-defunct Eastern Airlines to get decent savings rates. Maybe to secure a boat or car loan. But over the years, the Miramar-based, tax-exempt, member-run cooperative certainly morphed.”
“By the time regulators swept in 10 days ago to seize the $1.6 billion Eastern, the third-biggest credit union in the state was over its head in real estate and securities speculation. To some, including rivals in the banking industry, Eastern Financial is a poster child for how credit unions have strayed: They wanted to become so much like banks, they overextended themselves and put their members at risk.”
“‘This is going to be Exhibit A for the Florida Bankers Association and for banks overall as to why credit unions should not be allowed to expand their powers,’ said Ken Thomas, a Miami-based bank consultant and economist. ‘Some have gone well beyond their original scope and started to act like highfalutin banks.’”
The Palm Beach Post. “There’s a reason why regulators large and small failed to pick up on warning signs that the nation’s investment portfolios were about to fall off a cliff. Blame ‘gaps in regulation.’ That phrase was the mantra last week from representatives of FINRA, a self-regulatory body of the securities industry.”
“The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, was in town to educate investors, mostly retirees, about investment scams. But rather than point the finger at itself, FINRA mostly blamed unforeseen regulatory gaps for its failure to catch scammers. The presentation was heavy with irony.”
“Many attendees at the seminar blamed FINRA regulators for failing to notice the red flags waving in front of them. ‘FINRA has members who have scammed, big-time,’ Valerie Priest of Lighthouse Point said during a Q&A session.”
“Government officials also tried to explain away their lack of oversight. ‘There’s no doubt there was a failure chain here,’ Robert Kynoch, financial administrator for the Florida Office of Financial Regulation, told investors. ‘Regulators didn’t do as good a job as they should have. We’re trying to learn.’”
“U.S. Congressman Ron Klein, also a panel member, said new unregulated investment products were partly to blame for the crisis. He assured investors that Congressional committees were conducting ‘fact-finding” inquiries to determine what went wrong, and to make sure government enforces the laws ‘and doesn’t just look the other way, as the (Securities and Exchange Commission) did.’”
“But even as the mostly retiree crowd jotted down notes on how to avoid bad investments in the future, they also remembered losses in the recent past. And they pointed the finger squarely at panel members and government regulators. ‘This is all well and good, but how do we get the government to protect us? It’s the government that failed us,’ Barbara Strugar, a Fort Lauderdale resident who lost money investing in stocks, told the panel.”
“FINRA Senior Vice President John Gannon urged investors to remember several tips before investing.
Among his suggestions: Don’t be swayed by promises of phantom riches and high returns. Ignore claims that ‘everybody is doing it.’ But Jackie Schwertok of Boca Raton still felt burned by the regulatory agencies. ‘The damage is already done,’ Schwertok said.”
‘Metro Orlando single-family starts were down 41 percent in the first quarter to 863 units. The four-county metro area has more than enough finished-but-vacant new homes to cover the population of a town the size of Eatonville.”
800 houses is lot, IMO. So why are they continuing to build? Prices haven’t declined enough to stop them. And the ‘1000s of foreclosures to come’ is also distorting things.
Almost everything the government and lenders are doing regarding the housing bubble is making the bust worse.
“So why are they continuing to build? ”
Because lots went from 50-70K to 5K-15K.
Though I do not think that is the main reason.
Many of lots are paid for AND, in a lot of cases, the impact fees were paid off as well.
At $45 psqf building cost, an 2000 sq ft house (under roof) will cost them around 90K from grading/fill to CO.
They can still undercut any house built.
The system is going to cannibalize itself until the only thing left is a mouth, and one hand to feed itself.
So, how low could the price of a typical 2000sf 3/2/2 possibly get?
Two thousand for the lot? $50/sft. for the actual house? Lower than that?
Another thing that nobody is talking about is how reduced housing prices on the coasts will start killing prices in “bubble resistant” areas of flyover country. I know a lot of people in several businesses who declined to take promotions/transfers to the coasts, because, even with a significant pay raise, the pay increase did not compensate for the crazy difference in house prices.
I’ve been telling the kids that they could very well see the day when government/banks start giving away houses, in an attempt to keep the local economy, work force, and tax base from eroding to nothing.
Five years from now might be a good time to get back into the house buying market. Too many problems haven’t played out yet.
Despite all of this, I could barely pick up a friend in Clearwater Beach last night because traffic was gridlock. There are still no real visible signs of the bust where I live.
By visible, I mean people/crowd-wise.
‘no real visible signs of the bust’
In Florida. Really?
“In Florida. Really?”
I’m dead serious, man. A few weekends ago I had some buddies down and they were all surprised at how much traffic there was, and how busy everything is. They specifically wanted to see some carnage, and there really isn’t much in Pinellas. Last night on Clearwater Beach it was like freakin’ Mardi Gras.
Believe me, I want to see it, but I’m not.
I’ve seen some serious abandonment in Lee, Volusia, Orange, Dade and even Monroe County… the foreclosures and dead retail are very patchy in Pinellas.
Spring bump in the population? Maybe it’s just another bubble.
Excluding tourists and snowbirds, I actually think beaches here are more crowded during recessionary times, because it’s a cheap, fun family excursion. It’s a lot less expensive than going to the movies, going to a concert, or seeing a sporting event. I was at St. Pete Beach today and it was reasonably busy.
I thought they had a buy one get one free condo sale out there?
Maybe donald trump can save them?How many times has this guy been bankrupt?
He now has his kids pimping his real estate deals.
2457 SW Aberdeen St. Port St. Lucie Sec 23 Single Family 1,862 $80,000 Mar 09 $239,000 Feb 06
2912 SW Rosetta St. Port St. Lucie Sec 14 Single Family 2,250 $100,000 Mar 09 $254,900 Jul 05
3302 SW Martin St. Port St. Lucie Sec 17 Single Family 2,728 $88,000 Feb 09 $232,000 Jan 06
3325 SW Frankford St. Port St. Lucie Sec 17 Single Family 3,284 $143,500 Mar 09 $279,900 Mar 06
3334 SW Savona Blvd. Port St. Lucie Sec 17 Single Family 3,224 $140,000 Feb 09 $300,000 May 05
3473 SW Savona Blvd. Port St. Lucie Sec 17 Single Family 2,891 $125,000 Feb 09 $263,600 Sep 05
3917 SW Laidlow St. Port St. Lucie Sec 19 Single Family 2,995 $129,000 Jan 09 $290,000 Apr 07
4250 SW Callicoe St. Port St. Lucie Sec 34 Single Family 2,785 $121,800 Mar 09 $260,000 Oct 06
4280 SW Jame St. Port St. Lucie Sec 33 Single Family 2,977 $125,570 Feb 09 $279,000 Apr 06
4650 SW Vahalla St. Port St. Lucie Sec 33 Single Family 2,740 $110,000 Feb 09 $273,200 Jan 06
“‘no real visible signs of the bust’
In Florida. Really?”
____
Really.
No kiddin.
Miami Dade county is humming along.
Exceptions are the high-rise condos on Brickell.
Even where I live it is now almost fully rented out.
For those that do not remember, I rent in a developer’s bankrupt/taken over by Lehman Brother’s/now in receivership “luxury” high-rise with all the bells and whistles, two big balconies, can see the Bay with all the pretty sailboats….
Originally they sold for 500K+ and rented for $2100+
Half the building was sold.
I rent for $1650 which barely covers taxes and HOA.
Now, I’d say, building is 80% rental.
Strangely, and unexpectedly, it’s quiet and well maintained.
Expect all other high-rises to follow suit.
This is the truth Ben.
Agree with above here on central east coast. It’s kind of like a rotten egg. Looks ok on the outside but what a “pleasant reward” awaits on the inside.
I go to Tampa once every 6 weeks or so. I too cannot tell there is anything resembling an economic downturn in the area.
Gridlock in Pinellas County is nothing new, any time of year, bubble or no bubble. It’s normal for the area. It’s the most congested county traffic-wise in Florida, even more so than Miami-Dade. Since the 1980s.
I’d also like to add that, except for beachfront areas where old hotels, motels, and other businesses were screwed to make way for bubble development, Pinellas County was largely built-out well prior to the bubble and not as greatly affected as other areas of West Central Florida, except in terms maybe of prices for older, existing properties that went up and then bust. Even during the peak of the bubble, when I was desperately looking for a reasonably priced rental in Hillsborough County across the bay, such rentals still existed in Pinellas. Had I been willing to move across the bay, I wouldn’t have had such a struggle. But I just can’t handle that Pinellas traffic, so here I sit, on the eastern shore of Tampa Bay, watching the bubble deflate.
RE: I could barely pick up a friend in Clearwater Beach last night because traffic was gridlock.
58% of Americans haven’t read a book for fun since high school.
Bored out of their collectives minds, the lemmings have no where to go, but out on the street to drive around aimlessly, save for maybe a stop at a fast food joint to pig out on buckets of Kentucky Fried, greasy Taco Bell, or bags of Big Macs.
It’s possible Craigslist hookups explains the gridlock.
In the Hernando/Chinese drywall article, they quote that lady, like, three times saying how, “she loved that house and is crushed…”
This shows us again how strong the psychology of home buying is…. here she should be thanking her lucky stars, and instead she’s crushed. Imagine how she’d react if she got served a rancid steak? She’d go ballistic, but she is crying about her “dream home” being defective.
Is drywall that difficult to make?I think I would stay with USG sheetrock.
You wouldnt believe the corners people make, destroying their homes. I love older homes, and touring them, you see granite, slate and marble look alikes, fiberglass shower pans, new hollow Home Depot builder grade doors, aluminum windows with press on dividers, tile only halfway up the wall, etc., all of which are marketed as renovations apparently trying to justify increased pricing. Thank god we dont have painted grass here yet. People even take beautiful old tudors and bungalows and stick a cheap stucco or siding box on top, thinking if they double the square foot they should be able to double the price. Hopefully the market will teach them a lesson and the abuse will stop.
Heh. There is a house in my neighborhood where the owners tore up the yard and put in artificial turf. I didn’t realize it at first, and simply remarked to my wife that the lawn seemed unusually green given the watering restrictions we have in place.
As for “renovations,” I saw some doozies back when we were looking for a place to rent. One owner built a flimsy wooden divider straight down the middle of a bedroom, ostensibly to convert a 3/2 into a 4/2. Another claimed a garage was the “master bedroom.” The floor was concrete, but she’d painted it midnight blue, to hide the oil stains no doubt.
“Another claimed a garage was the “master bedroom.” The floor was concrete, but she’d painted it midnight blue, to hide the oil stains no doubt.”
One of the typical Florida renovations, turning the garage into a bedroom. That’d be a real deal-killer for me. I want the garage or the carport, so my vehicle doesn’t get eaten alive by the Florida sun and storms. Not to mention I like it for the storage, too. Nothing is dumber than one of these garage/carport conversions, with nothing left but a dinky little concrete apron for the car.
What I don’t understand is the “economics” of how a very low cost but relatively large size product such as sheetrock could have ever been cheaper to supply from across the Pacific than it is to make regionally. Especially given the high energy prices of the last few years before the oil bust.
Kunstler goes on about the economic distortion of the “12,000 mile supply chain” for garden salads. I agree with him, but I also understand the demand factor for out-of-season fresh produce. For drywall, I just can’t see how it ever made sense. Only through the most severe distortion of a true mania, I guess.
I told this story here once I think. A few years ago, I was talking with this guy in south Texas. Turns out he worked for Cemento de Mexico. He told me that they had just finished a highway project near Victoria, TX and had used Korean cement, shipped through the Panama Canal. And Texas is largely made up of the material that cement comes from.
Ben, your comment just brought back to my memory how 2 years ago it was hard to get a truckload of mud because Portland cement was on allocation everywhere.
And also during that time, the two marginal capacity drywall plants in Sigurd UT were going 24/7 as far as I could tell. I suppose we just couldn’t produce enough building materials nationwide during that interval. Now, the plants look to be shuttered again, as they were back in 2001-2002.
When the world gets completely supply constrained, based on largely artificial demand, I would think more of the backers with skin in the game would move to the sidelines and sit things out for awhile. Of course I would think wrong, at least in our times.
I like Sigurd. A nice little town. I wonder how many local folks depended on jobs in the gypsum/drywall production?
I would think more of the backers with skin in the game would move to the sidelines and sit things out for awhile. Don’t you have to be relatively free of debt and have some savings to do that? On a related topic, the next bail-out will be auto suppliers. Without external help, many will disappear. They are not in a position to move to their sidelines & wait for the auto industry to recover, either.
I don’t know, but I guess they’re not a major factor since we never hear much about the plant starting up and shutting down.
I’ve been driving past the plants on our regular trips between Torrey and the Wasatch front for about 15 years now, and I think this is probably the 3rd or 4th cycle of start-up and shut down that I’ve noticed, over that time.
I can’t imagine that they’re very desirable jobs. Just looking from the outside, gypsum dust is everywhere. I wonder, given that it’s rural So Utarr, how much effort that they put into dust abatement and respiratory protection for the workers. I doubt that it’s very much.
Just my experience…..
If the plant is owned by a large coporation, (USG, for example), they typically have safety and environmental compliance guys that will at least make the effort to supply protective gear. (Now, the employees actually using the gear is another question entirely).
Smaller operators typically have this “the government ain’t going to tell me what to do” attitude, and treat the issue with the priority they feel it deserves. If they get sued, it’s a lot easier for them to hide behind the bankruptcy laws.
I’ve been driving past the plants on our regular trips between Torrey and the Wasatch front for about 15 years now, and I think this is probably the 3rd or 4th cycle of start-up and shut down that I’ve noticed, over that time.
Oooh, tell me more, shoey. What you see, what you think.
Say, do you go through Loa, ever? I’ve had several rather X-Filesy experiences in Loa. Not like, you know, ‘Call the National Enquirer’ exciting time, but just…odd.
Kinda hard not to go through Loa, at least if you want to eat, since that’s where the only grocery store is in Wayne Co.
Well, I guess, if you live entirely off of ’shrooms and wild berries… but the fungi don’t do too well in the desert, I’ve been told. Not too mention that anything that grows more than 3″ tall ends up blown down to Caineville by the winds.
Loa’s a pretty non-descript place, if you ask me. People are nice enough, but I’ll always be one of them thar ‘move-ins’. Nowadays Loa’s economy is driven by Hoods in the Woods, Inc. Maybe that’s behind your other-world experiences?
Nowadays Loa’s economy is driven by Hoods in the Woods, Inc.
Deeply, deeply sorry to hear that.
Maybe that’s behind your other-world experiences?
No.
Hmm.
I’ll try to articulate the subject gracefully; reasonable and whole, and deliver my precis to you at a later time for your analysis, shall I?
I shall.
*hums ‘X-Files’ theme song for a few bars. )
“Kunstler goes on about the economic distortion of the “12,000 mile supply chain” for garden salads.”
he’s not credible at all on supply chains or peak oil. this is the guy who thinks wal-mart won’t be able to ship products. meanwhile wal-mart is one of the most successful companies on earth.
I know Kunstler is reckless, but he has consistently nailed down the fact that our living arrangement is a little odd, and perhaps unpleasant and unsustainable.
If nothing else, he stimulates a lot of reflection.
Speak for yourself. Or at least go invest in Wal-Mart. I can hardly imagine anything more doomed than our current way of life. We’re not going to die out, but many of the institutions we take for granted are, including the suburbs.
meanwhile … is one of the most successful companies on earth. Change the year, and fill in the blank.
“many of the institutions we take for granted”
And many of the institutions we took for granite.
“Is drywall that difficult to make?I think I would stay with USG sheetrock.”
No it`s not difficult to make but during the boom years there were also hurricanes which led to a drywall shortage. Enter Chinese drywall installed by illegal immigrants. Which brings me back to the question. How come they didn`t have problems with Chinese drywall during the Beijing Olympics ? Someone said they don`t use it around pools but what about athletic dorms or hotel rooms. I didn`t hear anyone say it smelled like rotten eggs there.
I had a college friend who became a cotton trader. She explained that it was her job to convince the Egyptians to pay as much as possible for American short fiber cotton and sell their long fiber cotton for as little as possible.
Maybe the Chinese were smart enough not to use their own dry wall in buildings where foreigners were going to be staying.
Could be, if USG was shipping to China that sure would have helped the U.S. run short during those years.
Ben, how could this story not make the cut? From today’s St. Pete Times (I’ve attached a link, as well as the referenced YouTube clip):
The video begins in the entryway of a 2,200-square-foot Channelside condo in Tampa and closes in on Nathan “The Short Sale Kid” Jurewicz. His T-shirt reads “Unemployable,” his hair cut punky short.
Jurewicz is obliviously blasting away on a video game. A drum kit and electric guitar sit in the background of the bachelor pad.
“Oh? Hi. Welcome to shortsaleriches.com” Jurewicz says in mock surprise as he turns away from the screen carnage. “As you can see, I’ve had a very busy day at the office.”
Jurewicz’s YouTube sales pitch purports to show real estate professionals how to make rump roast from road kill in the foreclosure-wrecked housing market. As he tells acolytes: “You never have to do any work ever again.”
The system involves buying short sale homes — those plucked from financially distressed owners for less than the mortgage owed the bank — and flipping them at a hefty markup to other investors.
…
A churchgoing 28-year-old who was homeschooled through high school, Jurewicz delights in outrageous hair styles: orange with tiger stripes, a yellow and black bumblebee swirl, a black phoenix against an albino white background. Today his spiky top is kelly green. His eyebrows are striped the same color.
Jurewicz has devised a special purchase option contract that lets him simultaneously bid on a short sale house with the bank while marketing it to other buyers. A team of Realtors and negotiators does the dirty work of juggling buyers and banks for him.
He’s outsourced the workload so much, he claims not to know the addresses of many of the homes he’s buying and selling.
http://tinyurl.com/dk73nl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsOLmgTY–U
The article also indicates he has hired a p.r. person. Unless there are two people in Tampa with that name, his flack is laid-off Tampa Tribune editorial page editor Rosemary Goudreau.
Must be the same people that were selling stated income loans to migrants.
Something doesn’t smell right. What part does he do that others can’t? Why do people bring him deals rather than keep them themselves? Do they just not want the alleged free money?
I’m confused here. How can this guy or the people working for him sell a place for so much more? I have a hard time believing they are that much better salespeople or that the owners’ realtors are so much more incompetent. I call BS.
I guess it could work that insiders direct deals to him before they are placed on MLCS, or get the banks they work at to agree to a lowball offer (knowing its below market), with the two splitting the profit (i.e., you get a call that says my bank has a property that is listed/worth 300k, but I think I could convince them to dump it for 200k if you give me a cut). It shouldn’t work for people without connnections on the inside, and I question its legality and ethics.
Thanks for that.
I came across this some months ago.
Except it was weirder.
Short sale, listed by a broker.
Except when I wanted to put an offer in, I was told it was under contract by an investor.
___
1. Looked up under County records and an “option to purchase” had been recorded.
2. The mortgage holder, which had already filed notice, did not know anything about it.
__
I also did not understand at the time but have had time to reflect.
__
How it probably works.
1. The homeowner will get a kickback (in my example, they had signed the option)
2. The broker makes the commission.
3. The person “working the foreclosure” at the bank may also be getting a piece.
__
Even with all that, I was offered a good deal which I would be tempted to take today but passed in December.
A churchgoing 28-year-old who was homeschooled through high school, Jurewicz delights in outrageous hair styles: orange with tiger stripes, a yellow and black bumblebee swirl, a black phoenix against an albino white background. Today his spiky top is kelly green. His eyebrows are striped the same color.
The first two words in that paragraph seem to contradict the rest of the paragraph at first glance. But then I think about it more and now I think it makes sense. Religion is subjectivism, kept inside ones mind. Wierd hairdos is subjectivism advertised to the public. Yes, the nonsense is consistent.
‘This is all well and good, but how do we get the government to protect us? It’s the government that failed us…’
Stupid beyatch. You want the govt to protect you? Then put your money in U.S. bonds and federally insured CDs.
Think about it this way: The govt can’t protect you from every investment swindle that comes along any more than it can protect you from every purse-snatcher that comes along. They all have larceny on their minds, and some of them will succeed in separating you from your cash.
In 2005 those using questionable loan products would have been screaming bloody murder if the government tried to shut them down. You got to have some respect for the salesmen that can sell overpriced crap, albeit you can question their ethics. As for the buyers paying outrageous prices for garbage, what respect can you have at all? I love to see the housing scum angry.
“Economou bet much of his life savings about a month ago on a winter home in Boca Raton. . . . Economou says he didn’t do much research into the condominium complex he bought into. Economou: . . . We just took a chance and we hope we’re lucky.”
Even his name makes a mockery out of economics.
I picture a cow say economou, economou, economou
lol, i was looking for a good wordplay
I’m just an occasional visitor to Pinellas County, hope to retire to Tampa Bay or Sarasota-Bradenton, and rent for a while sometime soon.
From what I hear from the locals on visits there is that there is a pretty good employment base there. Maybe not the top dollar jobs, but enough for young folks to get by and have some beer money for the weekend. Tampa Bay is party town, yes?
From looking at internet stuff, Pinellas rentals in nice areas are higher than comparable across the Sunshine Skyway in Sarasota or Bradenton, where there are fewer jobs available. I’m just guessing, and not on the ground there. Please correct my impression if its wrong.
I can only say anecdotally that if you want to find work in the Tampa Bay area, it can be found, although it may not be what you want to do and it may not pay particularly big bucks. But there is work here, if you look for it.
Here’s another plus for the City of Tampa: the crime rate has dropped a whopping 46% since 2003!!
http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2009/4/13/460023.html
And this, when three other Florida cities (Orlando, Miami and West Palm Beach) have made Forbes Top 15 Most Dangerous Cities. Go figure.
The price of guns and bullets has gone thru the roof, and the criminals have been priced out forever.
The locals are having a good laugh at your expense. The employment base here is back-office operations for banks, retail, construction of unnecessary buildings, and tourism. That was OK fifteen years ago, but none of those jobs now pay what it now costs to live here. Nor do most pensions pay what it now costs to live here, which is why the Carolinas are starting to siphon off the flow of Boomer retirees that some developers here desperately were counting on.
From an employment standpoint, Bradenton is a complete disaster. Drive into the city from Palmetto on US-41 and you will see exactly what I mean.
I do agree that Tampa is a party town, however. On that point, you were well advised.
This article is from February, but according to the local Friday night Florida PBS punditry show, the DEREGULATION AND EASING OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS for builders and developers is still in play. I apologize for the caps, but after EVERYTHING we’ve been through here in FLA, BOHICA! Not to mention idiot politicians who want to allow drilling within 3 miles of the Gulf Coast. These guys and gals (check out the photo of the beyatch that goes with the story) disgust me.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/legislature/article976378.ece
Palmy, she is purdy homely huh?
A face like a clenched fist, ATE. I’ll never figure out why these rabidly political gals are so danged unattractive.
Because politics is show business for ugly people.
I’m getting the feeling that housing is about to get as cheap as it was in the 1940s and 50s in much of the country.
I had picked up this great book many years ago:
“Tracking the American Dream: 50 Years of Housing History from the U.S. Census Bureau.”
From the executive summary: “In 1940, physical characteristics of housing units, plumbing facilties and other equipment were major problems. In the past 50 years (to the 1990 census), the focus has shifted to demographic, social and financial characteristics of housing and its occupants.”
“Housing costs outpaced inflation from 1940 to 1990. This was true for both mortgaged and non-mortgaged homes and for rental units. The percentage of income spent for housing costs was higher in 1990 than in any previous census.”
What may have happened and continued through 2005 is that Americans spent more and more of the disposable income they had (and then didn’t have) on more and more housing. That may now reverse. Who is going to live in all those Florida towers and homes, and how much (after bankruptcy reorgainzation) will they have to pay? I hope that some of the excessive-sized units will be divided up, and people will be able to live more cheaply.
The author produced the publication upon his retirement from the Census Bureau. In a personal note at the end he describes “feeling anxiety and then relief as his parents saved enough money for the annual mortgage payment” during the Great Depression, and remembers “our first shower”
“Children of this author’s generation have witnessed far-reaching social and economic changes in their lifetimes. A majority have lived out their adult lives in housing and living conditions that are far superior to teh conditions of their childhood experience. The latest generation of children — and those born in the 1990s and beyond — will surely witness changes in housing and living conditions in the next 50 years of their lives.”
One other thing the author put in the personal note:
He remembered “seeing his parents’ pride as they made the last mortgage payment on their home.”
He bought his first suburban home in 1958 and probably repeated the paying it off trick. I wonder if his children, who would probably be about 50 now, did the same or HELOCKed their way to the poorhouse (er bailout).
“Economou bet much of his life savings about a month ago on a winter home in Boca Raton. He paid $157,000 in cash for a two bedroom, two bath condo on a golf course. Economou says he didn’t do much research into the condominium complex he bought into. Economou: ‘We just took a chance and we hope we’re lucky.’”
Ouch. That’s going to leave a mark.
Dude probably spends more time researching his next toaster in Consumer Reports as he does where to dump his life savings.
UMMM do you think anyone will call him in Boztun and say he has a few broken windows from da gulf bollz?
Or will he be pleasantly surprised by all the black mold and water damage when he returz in da witur?
————————————————————-
winter home on a golf course
First, he probably paid twice what it was worth.
Second, he’ll probably turn off the A/C when he leaves in April. So he’ll get a very moldy surprise when he returns in late October, and the mold in FL is highly toxic if you breathe it.
Conclusion: this guy is just another sucker…
Seriously What do you suggest leave it at say 85 for the summer… or lower?
A friend parents died in January and left him a condoze in boca he is coming to NYC next month for the summer…
can they email the electric bills to him?
TALLAHASSEE - Consumers can expect double-digit increases in their property insurance rates under a bill lawmakers sent to Gov. Charlie Crist on Friday.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090502/ARTICLE/905021049/2055/NEWS?Title=Bill-sets-stage-for-insurers-to-increase-rates-annually
ride the river
I grew up in Sarasota and got out 2 years ago and returned to the midwest…I am now a snowbird in Sarasota..but this coming winter will be my last in Sarasota and in 2010 will winter myself in St. Pete..if you like a beach and golf than maybe Sarasota is for you but if you want any other sort of entertainment than dont locate to Sarasota…there is simply nothing to do there check out the daily arrest record and each week you will see a visable uptick in crime
http://www.sarasotasheriff.org/arrests.asp
The downtown is a hobo hangout and crime is rising
check out
I am curious to hear more about this if you check back.
As a kid, I visited grandparents in Sarasota a lot, and remember dinner and shopping in St Armand’s Circle in the late 80s and 90s. Returning in the early 2000s, I was stunned to see a new scene. Although I wouldn’t mind seeing the South Beach wanna-be crowd leave, I would hate to hear that it’s a skid row now.
‘This is all well and good, but how do we get the government to protect us? It’s the government that failed us,’ Barbara Strugar, a Fort Lauderdale resident who lost money investing in stocks, told the panel.”
This is a clear example of people who don’t know that in the US we have a Government of the corporation, by the corporations and for the corporations.
Yes, that is traditionally called an Oligarchy. These days we called American Style Democracy. We want the whole world to experience it, too. Aren’t we special?
Roidy
“This is a clear example of people who don’t know that in the US we have a Government of the corporation, by the corporations and for the corporations.”
I don’t see the corporations as being so powerful. After all, they are being pillaged and destroyed by their executives and pliant boards.
I think he means corporate executives.
Oligarchy.
Roidy
Renegotiated loans will ease fallout, one broker says
By JEFF OSTROWSKI
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 03, 2009
When the taps went dry for a few hours at the Comeau Building in downtown West Palm Beach in late March, most tenants could shrug off the inconvenience.
Not technology entrepreneur Sean Brown. He relies on the water in the office building’s rooftop chiller to keep his computer servers cool, and he was none too pleased to learn that the city of West Palm Beach had shut off the water because owner NCP Holdings hadn’t paid its bill.
Brown grew more frustrated when he found that Florida Public Utilities had turned off natural gas to the building for a couple of days, again because the landlord hadn’t paid its bill. Brown needs the building’s gas-powered rooftop generator to keep his company, Clear Link Networks, operating if the power goes out.
Many observers predict the foreclosure action against the historic Comeau Building will prove just the start of a wave of defaults by commercial landlords in Palm Beach County. While most tales of mortgage foreclosures have centered on homeowners and condo developers, Brown’s troubles show how disruptive foreclosures against commercial properties can be.
Bank of America in March filed a $13 million foreclosure action against Chicago-based NCP Holdings. The court file includes dunning letters from Citizens Property Insurance Corp. for an unpaid premium and from a janitorial firm for nearly $15,000 in unpaid cleaning services.
Brown leases 1,150 square feet at the Comeau Building, and he says leaving isn’t an option. Finding office space with fiber optic connections, a chiller and a generator could take months.
“The home was rented during 2008, and those tenants moved out in February. They’re asking $2,200 in monthly rent for the four-bedroom, three-bath pool home, or $535,000 for a sale; both prices have been lowered recently. ‘I don’t have the ability to be there,’ said Chan.”
So the bottom is in, really? The rental price is still too high and the sales price, based on the currently too high rental price, is too high by more than a factor of two. It sure doesn’t look like any sort of legitimate bottom is imminent.
Five probable cases of swine flu in Tampa, three schools shut down. Sheesh. And Napolitano looking like a male version of Liza Minelli, smirking on the Sunday morning news shows about how she’s not going to shut down the border.
I think this “swine flu” has been around a lot longer than people think. I had some really nasty upper respiratory yuk, worst I’ve had in a while, back in February. Makes me kinda wonder if some of us haven’t been through it already.
You mean like my “cold” that developed into bronchitis last Christmas?
Roidy
He’s a partner in Thomas Kay Realty Property Management in Melbourne with his wife, who is a Realtor.
“This is my wife. Who is a Realtor”
Ooohhh.
“Realtor coming through! Make room!”
“For God’s sake, is there a Realtor in the house?!”
“My son. The Realtor”
“I am not a Realtor. But I play one on TV”
“First, we kill all the Realtors”