May 4, 2009

Bits Bucket For May 4, 2009

Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.




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373 Comments »

Comment by tresho
2009-05-04 00:51:14

Post-recession America may be saddled with high unemployment even after good times finally return.

Hundreds of thousands of jobs have vanished forever in industries such as auto manufacturing and financial services. Millions of people who were fired or laid off will find it harder to get hired again and for years [perhaps the rest of their lives] may have to accept lower earnings than they enjoyed before the slump.

Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:19:06

I guess the best way to solve this would be to take women back out of the workforce. (I’m snarking, OK?) Of course, to do that, expenses would have to drop so that families could live on one income.

Good luck with that. :roll:

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-05-04 09:51:44

My anecdotal data suggests that the opposite is happening. Heard some economy-related stories over the weekend at a party, one of which was of stay-at-home Mom’s going back to work because Dad couldn’t find work after a year. Mom was able to use her network and get something, even though it’s just a receptionist gig and she used to work as a higher-paid legal assistant.

So rather than women getting back out of the workforce, I would instead expect that (as in past period of economic turmoil, stressj, or war) instead they will be an important safety net for their families.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 11:50:56

Since my wife makes more than I do, I’d be the stay at home dad if it came down to having to choose only one person to work.

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Comment by shizo
2009-05-04 19:26:28

Me too. But to listen to some of the comments on this board, as a civil servant I should be rolling in a bentley. Sure- whatever. I make $43K a year. No bonus, ever, just decent health care. Lame retirement plan…

 
 
 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 09:21:46

This makes me wonder what is meant by “good times”. Good times for whom? Certainly not those un- or underemployed.

Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:29:48

Yeah. What kind of “recovery” involves chronically high unemployment?

This really seems like a situation where the stock indices will spike and then crash again as everybody realizes what’s happening.

Comment by SDGreg
2009-05-04 10:09:45

“Yeah. What kind of “recovery” involves chronically high unemployment?”

The type of recovery that tries to resuscitate an economy that is dead and not coming back. Extending expensive life support to a dead patient might make the relatives feel good for a brief period of time, but it makes no difference for the patient and only leaves the relatives with a bigger tab.

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Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 10:52:14

+1 on the analogy

 
Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 10:57:35

+2

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 10:15:48

az_lender experiencing “good times” now, as banks won’t lend, so I get real opportunities to get high interest rates by financing real houses for people who have reasonable prospects of paying off the loans. Hmm, always half-expecting my loan portfolio to crash and burn; still no problems.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 11:25:12

whatever happened to your place in Florida?

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:28:44

drumminj-

Would it be better to be unemployed in a less expensive area, or does that not concern you?

Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 11:37:44

Good question, BanteringBear. Obviously we discussed this a bit before my move to Seattle.

Honestly, the greatest expense here is my rent, which is roughly equivalent to what I was paying for my mortgage in Texas. I could definitely find a cheaper place to stay, but I initially expected this to be “temporary”, and thus not a huge deal. As the months go by, I sure wish I’d chosen a cheaper place to rent, but…

I’m glad I moved here, and while it’s unfortunate, the job break was a good time to do so. If I really start worrying about money, I can certainly move to a cheaper rental, or sign a 6 month lease here and likely drop my rent a few hundred dollars a month. Or I can look for someplace not as nice/close to everything and certainly save ~$500/month. Right now, I’m willing to pay the premium for the quality of life, but that’s due to my optimism that sometime soon I’ll find a gig (I do have some contract work right now, though it’s yet to be seen whether it’ll be enough work to cover my living expenses).

Sure, the money concerns me. But at the same point in time I have enough in savings to ride out another year or two of this, if need be. Obviously I don’t want it to get to that point, but I’m also not sweating bullets. Mainly I just don’t know what the best move is for me right now.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-04 09:28:09

In New Amerika, most won’t have real jobs. Everyone will work in Wal-mart (at best!) and have no benefits, etc.

I have no idea how the Consumer Culture is going to work with everyone be paid slave wages and charged 1st world prices - but our leaders probably never thought that part of their plan through!

Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 09:57:19

Would you like fries with that…how did I do?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 10:02:08

You forgot to add milkshake, vanilla, strawberry or chocolate?

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 12:32:22

…and “Would you like to try our special today?”

Upsell, baby, upsell!

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 13:18:10

:grin:

 
 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 09:56:17

KJ mentioned yesterday on bits that this is a -paraphrasing- a minor recession unlike the GD…IMHO, this is no way a recession we will come out of ‘when the good times start rolling”…we have no jobs, mftg in this country to bring us out of the recession. Roads/bridges/mass transit/highspeed etc are all necessary but will not put back to work with meaningful incomes enough to buy all the crap /stuff we are told to buy.

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:25:11

And, many of those infrastructure jobs are going to illegal aliens. It’s the same old story. The rich get richer, while the average person is moving into the working poor class.

 
Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 10:46:49

I didn’t say “minor”. I actually said it would be 50% **worse** than the average recession since WW2 which is 16 months, meaning a 2 year (16*1.5 = 24 months).

Unless you consider a 2 year recession, minor, please don’t put words in my mouth.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 12:46:13

Welcome back to the 80s, when jobs first starting moving offshore, never to come back and millions saw their wages cut by at least a 3rd.

They were promised new opportunities in the nascent field of micro-computers (PCs) and could even get training! “Knowledge workers” was coined and if you could just catch that bus, you were on your way to a bright future! Well…except for the rapid boom-bust cycle of IT.

Or you could learn to flip houses through mail order and hotel seminar courses. (sorry, the most famous escapes me at the moment. what-his-name?) Yes, as far back as the 80s.

What is the future promise of today? Nothing and they aren’t even pretending there is something else. That’s the scary part.

Also, there is no “…may have to accept lower wages.” They WILL accept lower wages and either learn it’s permanent or they will NOT work. This has been the trend since the 80s. J6P’s wages have been stagnate at best or not keeping up with REAL inflation and therefore losing ground in reality. Stagnate or dropping wages eventually have to (and may right now or already have) cross the rising vector of prices and when that happens, we’re toast.

 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-05-04 01:16:51

Today’s Dilbert: The pointy-haired boss’s secretary tells him off; “I live in a rented trailer and all of my money is in my checking account. Your investments are worthless and your mortgage is underwater. My net worth is higher than yours now.” Boss grimaces. “I guess promiscuity and a G.E.D. was a pretty good strategy for me after all. Boss crushes the papers he’s holding.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 04:44:31

LOL - saw that one. He gives a good Joshua Tree look as he crushing it.

 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-05-04 04:56:35

Here’s the link to the strip:

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-05-04/

 
Comment by InMontana
2009-05-04 06:07:09

yeah but the boss’s secy has a BA in English no doubt and is underwater too. In real life.

Comment by WT Economist
2009-05-04 06:15:55

And, the Boss is getting a bailout while the secretary won’t be getting Social Security in old age.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-05-04 08:53:26

b..b..but we’re ALL in this bank/TARP/Ponzi scheme TOGETHER…

Associated President Binder(2nd largest WI bank) discusses accepting TARP funds, economy…

” For most consumers, they are looking at it now and saying, “If I buy a house in that neighborhood and that neighborhood has homes that are in foreclosure process right now, I don’t have to be an economist to know that’s going to diminish the value of the purchase that I just made.” So stopping mortgage foreclosures, which has been one of the primary focuses of President Obama and his administration and economic advisers, I think, is the right approach.

There are all these other issues around relative fairness and, “I didn’t get into that type of loan,” but at the end of the day, consumers - we - are all in this together”

…and again,

” We’re in it together, and it is to me that kind of esprit de corps that this country has evidenced so many other times in times of crisis that will be what will lead us out of the current state that we’re in. It is all of us working together to do the right things in a thoughtful and disciplined way rather than in a haphazard, winner-loser type of way”

Yeah… Right Binder, Ben and the gang here at the HBB were all working 24/7 in our basements writting and brokering your POS Suicide Loans in our SLEEP !
:)

http://www.jsonline.com/business/44270362.html

 
Comment by Hunter_T
2009-05-04 08:55:39

nothing wrong with a BA in English.

Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:40:46

Except it doesn’t often lead to gainful employment.

Google the song “What Do You Do With a BA in English” from the musical Avenue Q.

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Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 09:58:49

You can be a technical writer.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 11:04:07

No, you can’t be a technical writer with a BA in English. It’s much easier to teach an engineer/scientist to write than to teach engineering to an English major. No good trying to edit either. Engineers tend to edit each other.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 11:20:16

All our Technical writers have BA’s in English. No Engineers in the Learning Products team.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 10:21:35

Irony: I thought I would get a BA in English, but I couldn’t get “A” in English, because I didn’t master the New Criticism jargon. I could get “A” in Math so made the switch, feeling slightly guilty about abandoning something “hard” for something “easy.” DUMB LUCK!!!…and gainfully employed for as long as I wanted to be.

Also, Way Back Then, even Ivy tuition was about $1200 a year. Seriously.

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Comment by Hunter_T
2009-05-04 10:49:40

“What Do You Do With a BA in English?” - crying at my desk.

well at least my BA made me smart enough to read thehousingbubbleblog.com

which saved me plenty of $$

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 11:03:42

well at least my BA made me smart enough to read thehousingbubbleblog.com
which saved me plenty of $$

Hahahaha! Very nice.

 
 
Comment by InMontana
2009-05-04 14:36:53

nothing wrong with a BA in English.

Didn’t say there was. But I doubt actul secretary in the IT industry would get there on a GED.

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Comment by jbunniii
2009-05-04 09:09:54

The secretary in my department bought a $750k house last year in Silicon Valley with her “boyfriend.” I don’t think her net worth is higher than mine.

Comment by Neil
2009-05-04 11:19:38

I know of four secretaries at work that have two homes. Usually one is theirs and one is the boyfriend’s/spouse’s. They are starting to worry. I’m amazed they are no where near panic… But when they do panic… so will everyone.

But I also know of two whos net worth is higher than mine. Note: one is retired Navy who used to command a squadron of ships (Frigates, IIRC). She just wanted more time with her daughter… I think she has as many degrees as I do! ;)

Got Popcorn?
Neil

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Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 11:57:00

Montana:
I could hire a bus and fill it with non-English speaking people with criminal records and a penchant for carrying diseases like TB and dispatch it to your neck of the woods. People who have never held an honest job, even as a lowly secretary.
That might temper your contempt.
Geez, and I subsidize your use of bandwidth.

Signed,
Proud holder of degrees in English and psychology.

Comment by InMontana
2009-05-04 14:39:36

What contempt? From what I’ve seen, people don’t get to be an actual secretary on a GED. Lots of secretaries, admin assts, paralegals have lib arts BA’s or more.

Paranoid much? Sheesh.

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Comment by polly
2009-05-04 06:59:02

I always thought it was ironic that by the time I finished law school I was much, much poorer than the homeless people who used to hold open the doors at the ATM banks around the school. My cash flow was about to become much better, but in absolute terms I was $70K in debt and they were probably about even.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 07:15:26

“…I was much, much poorer than the homeless people…”

Your human capital and network capital were quite a bit more valuable than theirs…

Comment by polly
2009-05-04 09:51:04

Granted. And I had a job waiting for me too.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-05-04 03:55:41

Obama: Better do the deal, boys, or I’m gonna sic David Gregory on you.

http://www.businessinsider.com/white-house-directly-threatened-perella-weinberg-over-chrysler-2009-5

So I guess Hank Paulson wasn’t the only one to do a little strong-arming.

Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:33:40

The more I read about the Obama administration’s behavior surrounding the Chrysler deal the more I’m disgusted by it.

I’m sure that whatever they’re doing to manipulate the rest of the economy is equally outrageous and misleading also.

Comment by DinOR
2009-05-04 10:31:51

Julius,

My problem has been that even under GWB, there simply wasn’t a level playing field. FB’s in FL were given every latitude to have their cake and eat it too by taking advantage of the sell-off, buying a nicer, newer, bigger home and leaving their “old” home to die on the vine *without being 1099′d?

I have to imagine many of those loanowners hadn’t made a payment since their market peak? So… 2005? There were also many disparities in the way the financial firms were treated ( again, -under- the Bush Admin? )

So… I guess ‘how’ you are treated depends a great deal on which day of the week you file for BK, whether you’re a giant corp. or a private individual? I just don’t see any consistency here at all? Dennis Kozlowski is rotting in prison and Michael Perry, Angelo and the rest of the crew are walking around free men.

Comment by DinOR
2009-05-04 10:35:53

Oh, as opposed to ’some’ people that will find the credit spigot has long been shut off, banks have wised up to “list and fly” strategies and while they won’t be 1099′d, they’ll have zero tax benefits and uh… the only pool ‘they’ll’ have access to will be in an apartment complex?

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Comment by varelse
2009-05-04 12:19:42

I hope people can get over the inclination to assume that any criticism of Obama is automatically an endorsement of Bush policy. Can’t we go from bad to worse…..or bad to more bad…..or bad to only slighly less bad?

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-05-04 12:54:20

Just like people who accept the fantasy that the opposite of Democrat is Republican. It’s an extremely retarded fantasy and says a lot of their less than two digit measured IQ.

Since I’m an atheist and a womanizer for legalizing prostitution and pot and 100% pro choice, most people on “both” sides who think I’m automatically a Democrat.

Since I own a gun, am a staunch 2nd amendment backer, and want 0 income taxes and 0 regulations, somehow “both” sides think I’m automatically a Bible thumping Republican.

IT MAKES ME SICK! People should have heard of “the world’s smallest political quiz by now. We’re divided into four areas, not two!!!!!!!

 
Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 14:13:14

Yump…the layout of American political “zones” has always been pretty goofy. This is why libertarians get labeled as “fiscally conservative and socially liberal” when the term “classical liberal” or even just “liberal” would be more appropriate.

As for Obama, yeah…I don’t like him and I didn’t like Bush. That said, however, the government’s actions surrounding the Chrysler bankruptcy this week have been surprisingly sleezy and dishonest. (for deeper analysis, read http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/todays-chryco-c11-court-docs/ ). Basically, the Obama administration is doing all it can to ensure that Chrysler’s secured bondholders get wiped out and the company gets handed over to the UAW.

The bondholders, fortunately, are on the ball and fighting for their rights. And they have all of bankruptcy law on their side.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 12:28:03

“My problem has been that even under GWB, there simply wasn’t a level playing field. FB’s in FL were given every latitude to have their cake and eat it too by taking advantage of the sell-off, buying a nicer, newer, bigger home and leaving their “old” home to die on the vine *without being 1099′d?”

Just wanted to point out that the 250k/500k home equity exemption was instituted in the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, before GWB.

Nevertheless - I’d like to second varelse - criticism of Obama does not equate to sanction of Bush; likewise criticism of Bush does not equal sanction of Clinton etc.

One of the things I like about this board is that it’s relatively non-partisan (with certain… ahem.. exceptions). We’re generally focused on the economic problems caused by the housing bubble, and mostly smart enough to see that it was caused by a string of errors (to put it euphemistically) spread across several administrations, on both sides of the aisle, and also spread across the personal, corporate, and government policy realms.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 15:15:35

I believe DinOR was referring to the suspension of the tax on forgiven debt, not the cap gains exclusion for home sales.

 
 
 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 10:39:31

The more I read about the Obama adminstration, the more I like them! Closing tax loopholes and offshore tax havens is great news.

8 years of capitalism out of control has come to a sudden end. I like just about everything I read regarding Obama’s decisions. Sure the bank bailouts blew, but there have been a lot of positives too. Like the new CC rules. And now going after tax cheats.

If the only way we can make these large corporations happy is to allow them to pay zero taxes, screw them.

Good riddance. We don’t need you bloodsuckers anyways.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-05-04 14:46:34

“I like just about everything I read regarding Obama’s decisions”

An opinion you have expressed too many times to count.

Let’s review:

-Obama is essentially using the same bank recovery playbook used by Bushco and the Wall Street bloodsuckers.

-Will soon be giving the reigns of GM to the “Government and Greens know what’s best” crowd.

-He has taken a few pages from the Vladamir Putin playbook, when it comes to dealing with people who disagree with him. I guess he wants to clear out Guantanamo, so he can refill it with his political opponents.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 15:48:04

I wouldn’t go feeling sorry for the car companies. They have had every break imaginable and had to be forced to adopt better safety, reliability and mileage standards not to mention one of the most powerful lobbies in this country… and they still failed.

I’d say they got what they deserved… the worst of both worlds.

Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 20:22:17

I agree. Which is why Chrysler in particular should have simply been allowed to fail rather than undergo some long bankruptcy process.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-05-04 04:09:07

‘Great Recession’ Will Redefine Full Employment as Jobs Vanish
By Matthew Benjamin and Rich Miller

May 4 (Bloomberg) — Post-recession America may be saddled with high unemployment even after good times finally return.

Hundreds of thousands of jobs have vanished forever in industries such as auto manufacturing and financial services. Millions of people who were fired or laid off will find it harder to get hired again and for years may have to accept lower earnings than they enjoyed before the slump.

This restructuring — in what former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker calls “the Great Recession” — is causing some economists to reconsider what might be the “natural” rate of unemployment: a level that neither accelerates nor decelerates inflation. This state of equilibrium is often described as “full” employment.

Fallout from the recession implies a “markedly higher” natural rate of unemployment, says Edmund Phelps, a professor at Columbia University in New York and winner of the 2006 Nobel Prize in economics. “It was 5.5 percent; maybe it will be 6.5 percent, maybe 7 percent.”

That has implications for policy makers as well as workers. The Obama administration and the Federal Reserve are counting on the jobless rate to fall to a medium-term equilibrium of about 5 percent as the economy recovers. A natural rate significantly above that would drive up the annual budget deficit — which will top $1 trillion for the first time this year — by reducing tax revenue and pushing up spending on unemployment benefits.

A higher rate would also require the Fed to make a choice: Accept an economy with more Americans permanently out of work, or try to boost employment at the risk of heating up inflation.

Unemployment Report

The government may report May 8 that the jobless rate jumped to 8.9 percent in April, the highest since 1983, from 8.5 percent in March, according to economists surveyed by Bloomberg.

Laurence Ball, an economics professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, says unemployment may peak at 10 percent, and “it will be a long time before we see 5 percent” again.

The more time workers spend without a job, the less attractive they become to potential employers, Ball says. That in itself helps keep the unemployment rate elevated.

“If you’re unemployed” for an extended period, “you’re not keeping up with new technology,” he says. “You become discouraged and you change your lifestyle.”

A burst of productivity growth starting in the mid 1990s helped lower the natural rate of unemployment to around 5 percent from 6 percent, as profit-flush companies took on more workers. Now the fear is that will be reversed as industries downsize.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 04:24:54

“Post-recession America may be saddled with high unemployment even after good times finally return.”

I always have to shake my head at this thinking in the media. What could possibly better define the timeline of a recession than unemployment itself? Therefore how can we come out of a recession while unemployment is still rising?

They try to define recession in terms of the stock market or consumer spending or even GDP - huh uh. The problem with all those is that they’re all driven in part by inflation and/or currency exchange rates, and thus aren’t true indicators of economic health. Unemployment (inaccurately measured as it may be) is *the* best gauge of economic health.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 04:29:09

Meant to add - those other false “measures” are also driven a lot by debt - again therefore making them a false measure. Increased spending based on debt is not economic expansion.

FWIW the whole period from 2002-2007 was driven by debt expansion; while the whole period wasn’t really a recession (unemployment did go down), it very much wasn’t nearly the economic expansion period commonly put forth, IMO. We increased production during that period, but it was mostly production of things the country didn’t need - like too many houses, too many cars, etc.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-04 05:05:52

… too many four-dollar lattes, too many pirates stores.

Whatever businesses that were dependent of frivilous consumer spending are hosed.

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Comment by combotechie
2009-05-04 05:07:44

frivilous = frivolous

 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2009-05-04 06:28:20

‘… too many four-dollar lattes, too many pirates stores.’

Yeah, too many Toys RRRRRRRRRRRRR Us

 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-05-04 07:28:20

Why did our president just say that the stock market is irrelevant to the future economy?

 
Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-04 07:55:44

‘… too many four-dollar lattes, too many pirates stores.’

Starbucks was building stores across the street from other star bucks. I read a headline once which stated why starbucks cross the road did. The answer was to get to the customer on the other side. How lazy and dumb have Americans become?

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-05-04 08:53:42

Headline by Yoda?

 
Comment by sagesse
2009-05-04 09:01:42

There are now “Shaving stores” in some malls.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:31:39

On Mercer Island in WA, there are two stores right across from each other. It is completely stupid. Of course, it’s a snooty, wealthy area so perhaps business is booming.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 13:06:58

Of course, it’s a snooty, wealthy area so perhaps business is booming.

Hahahaahah! Mayyyybeee….and mayyybeee not….
Didja get the memo, Bear? It turns out maybe we’re not ‘different’ here, after all…

*cheery cackle *

 
Comment by Seattle Renter
2009-05-04 15:23:24

Hey Olygal,

Ya we’re not much different, but we are on a time delay loop.

 
 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-05-04 04:44:50

Well GDP probably isn’t too bad as a measure, but the stock market? Pleh. The degree to which the stock market is a forward looking measure of the economy is DWARFED by the asset price increase driven by more people putting money in the market. A glance at P/E rations shows that we’ve experience rampant inflation in equity prices. People are paying much more money today to capture future dividends than makes any rational sense. “The stock market is the best place to park your money” meme still has enough legs that stock prices are supported primarily by anticipation of future increases in stock prices. It’s like RE was in late 2007: some losses, but still overpriced IMHO.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-04 05:11:43

Plus one for Jim A.

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Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-05-04 05:51:24

- Treasuries are a bad place to put your money with all the money printing going on, so is cash.
- Stocks are risky at inflated P/E ratios.
- Gold, Silver, etc maybe, but of no real value.
- real estate…nuff said
- commodities, highly speculative

There’re not too many places to hide your money these days. I am not even taking about making money, I am just trying to preserve the purchasing power of what I have. Personally I think commodities are the most secure over the next several years. People need to eat and they need energy, but they might eat less and use less energy when they’re broke.

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Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 06:39:55

GSG, DBC, DBA basic materials (IYM) been long for a while and sleep very well at night.

That and TIPS.

Really can’t go wrong.
If these go down, that means further deflation, but really, what did you actually lose?

Look at it this way Mike, you are worried about losing the value of your dollar.
If you keep dollars and inflation occurs, you lose.
If you own commodities/TIPS and deflation occurs, you break even in real terms as your dollar now buys the same when you cash out.

 
Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 06:55:43

Here’s a simpler way to look at it.
Look at US dollar index.
Then look at CRB, GSCI or any large basket commodity index.

Compare both charts for the last 3 months.
They are the inverse of each other, peak for peak, week for week.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-05-04 06:01:33

I guess what REALLY irritates me is the unspoken assumption by most of those who chatter on in the business news that higher stock prices are a priori a GOOD thing. Just like house prices, they are a zero sum game: good for sellers, bad for buyers. Higher prices mean that sellers (and brokers) get more money, but buyers pay more money to secure future returns (dividends or equivalent rent).

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Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:39:06

Yes, absolutely. The stock market is being taken far too seriously as some kind of barometer of the economy, and I also think unemployment is probably a better measure of what’s going on than anything else.

“Hopes” of future gains are being pushed way too far here. You’d think people would have learned by now that you can’t have an economy running on hot air.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 10:33:08

Jim, I absolutely agree with you.

Have often posted here, I am awaiting the inflation-adjusted equivalent of the 1974 bottom (Dow 594 then would be about Dow 3000 now). I will then consider the BS-driven runup of stock prices to have been mostly corrected.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-05-04 10:47:48

I’m not sure that I’d go THAT far. Productivity improvements SHOULD mean that companies produce more with less be worth more. REAL incomes have gone up since 1974 (if not since 1994) which means that overall, people can consume more, and companies can sell more. Of course there are countervailing factors. People live in bigger houses and automobile engines are more efficient, but that’s no real reason to believe that builders or carmakers are more profitable. This is especially true when using a narrow measure like the Dow. If the overall economy grows but the largest 30 companies are a proportionatly smaller proportion of it, then the DJI won’t reflect the overall growth.

 
Comment by muir
2009-05-04 13:49:21

” I am awaiting the inflation-adjusted equivalent of the 1974 bottom (Dow 594 then would be about Dow 3000 now). I will then consider the BS-driven runup of stock prices to have been mostly corrected.”

What about if DOW goes to 15,000 and THEN inflation catches up?

:-)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 07:22:40

What is interesting to me is how often these days a big up move on the US stock market is accompanied by a drop in the dollar on the foreign exchange market. If the run up in the stock market were driven by fundamentals, wouldn’t dollars want to be repatriated, in order to join in on the party? And wouldn’t an influx of dollars strengthen the dollar’s FOREX position?

USD-CHF 1.1335 -0.0025 -0.2205% 10:08
USD-SEK 7.9478 -0.0886 -1.1019% 10:08
USD-DKK 5.5923 -0.0199 -0.3546% 10:08
USD-NOK 6.5104 -0.0363 -0.5545% 10:08
USD-CZK 19.9100 -0.1860 -0.9255% 10:08
USD-SKK 22.6190 -0.0871 -0.3837% 10:08
USD-PLN 3.2856 -0.0076 -0.2308% 10:08
USD-HUF 214.6250 -1.1500 -0.5330% 10:08
USD-RUB 32.9080 -0.1463 -0.4426% 10:08
USD-TRY 1.5810 -0.0107 -0.6722% 10:08

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Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 07:40:51

“What is interesting to me is how often these days a big up move on the US stock market is accompanied by a drop in the dollar on the foreign exchange market. ”

See my post above.
No mystery if it’s all been inflation expectations.

 
Comment by Yensoy
2009-05-04 09:08:13

Prof if I may suggest please replace the east European funnymoney in your charts with asian CNY INR JPY won etc. These economies are larger and better determine the direction of the usd

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 10:12:24

It matters little to my point — with the exception of TWD and CNY, the dollar is down today against all the Asia/Pacific currencies. And CNY = 0.0000% is apparently meaningless.

CURRENCY VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE TIME USD-JPY 98.9350 -0.1800 -0.1816% 12:52
USD-HKD 7.7500 -0.0003 -0.0039% 12:53
AUD-USD 0.7377 0.0071 0.9676% 12:53
NZD-USD 0.5730 0.0026 0.4558% 12:53
USD-SGD 1.4740 -0.0088 -0.5901% 12:53
USD-TWD 33.0890 0.1685 0.5119% 11:05
USD-KRW 1263.3750 -24.0000 -1.8643% 11:41
USD-PHP 47.9380 -0.0455 -0.0948% 12:00
USD-IDR 10505.0000 -95.0000 -0.8962% 12:00
USD-INR 49.9100 -0.2450 -0.4885% 11:05
USD-CNY 6.8230 0.0000 0.0000% 11:05
USD-MYR 3.5315 -0.0370 -1.0369% 11:05
USD-THB 35.1850 -0.1000 -0.2834% 12:53

 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-05-04 06:13:49

packman,

Europe have had a much higher unemployment than the US for a long while now and they were not in recession all these time either. Unemployment is only one factor used in calculating whether an economy in a recession or not and the social safety net spending have always negate the higher unemployment rate in these European countries, which seems to be where the US is heading I am afraid to say.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 06:22:20

I’m not talking about the level of unemployment, I’m talking about the rate of rise or fall. Typically it rises very fast during a recession, and has a sharp peak before beginning a slow fall. IMO the recession isn’t over until that peak is reached, not before.

There are indeed other indicators that shouldn’t be ignored, but they also shouldn’t be considered strong enough indicators to somehow override actual unemployment rates.

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Comment by cougar91
2009-05-04 07:08:37

As I remember it, the unemployment started rising very slowly during much of 2008 (recession officially started in Dec 07) and after the Lehman bankruptcy it went up to 600K+ per month job loss and unemployment rose very fast afterward. To me that was quite a spike. If that was not a sharp spike to you, what should it be (not challenging you, just curious). 800K+ job loss per month? I do not think the rate of job loss will be increasing from this point on, it will be falling, but not much new hiring either.

 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 07:45:12

Nah - unemployment rate started rising slowly in the middle of 2007, a bit faster early last year, and was skyrocketing already by mid-year, long before Lehman collapse.

Here’s what I mean with respect to the spikes - with steep frontside and slower declines on the backside. Set the graph to 5 years to more easily see the recent timeframe. Similar data can be seen with the ADP stats on Bloomberg.

One interesting thing is - note that with virtually every recession since the late 1950’s, there is a “bounce” of some kind in unemployment. Sometimes the bounce is on the frontside (post-bounce peak higher than pre-bounce peak), sometimes on the backside. Sometimes the bounce is strong enough to declare two separate recessions, as in the early 1980’s. I would imagine that’s the result of calling a bottom too early, with employers starting to hire back prematurely based on “green shoots”, only to find they have to cut back again when the shoots are found to be weeds.

It’s also worth noting that we’re just about to exceed the largest trough-to-peak rise in unemployment since the Great Depression. Friday’s number (expected 8.9 - 9.0%) will probably send us over.

I venture that this coming trough will have different characteristics than past troughs - something akin to the early 60’s or late 70’s - not a clean trough like the last two.

 
 
Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:45:02

“Europe have had a much higher unemployment than the US for a long while now and they were not in recession all these time either. Unemployment is only one factor used in calculating whether an economy in a recession or not and the social safety net spending have always negate the higher unemployment rate in these European countries, which seems to be where the US is heading I am afraid to say.”

Europe has always had a kind of coy and shifty way of defining it’s so-called economic success. Suffice it to say that the EU countries aren’t doing so hot now; the German economy, for instance, is set to contract more than 6% for the second consecutive quarter, and there is a lot of fear of violence and social unrest at this point there.

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Comment by warlock
2009-05-04 17:00:04

Well, bear in mind that US unemployment statistics are also a tad optimistic.

First add 2% to cover the relative difference in prison populations…

 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-05-04 09:00:26

If you are unemployed, how can it be a “good time”??

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-05-04 04:36:08

No ..the more Employers hire the Dumbest most clueless bangable chicky poos in HR who can’t figure out what “free lance” really means…yes you have jobs and are working.

THAT is what need to be fixed so desperately …there are NO adults who can think in HR anymore

..I have one ace in hole left i could be a dj in a strip club, the GF would really like that……right?

———————————————–
The more time workers spend without a job, the less attractive they become to potential employers

Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-04 08:41:10

My very pretty gorgeous chicky poo happens to be an HR director and she has an undergraduate degree, an MBA with advanced level of legal courses. HR main function these days is to protect the company from liability avoidance and insuring productivity all the while insuring everybody plays nicely. The most difficult situations that managers can not handle end up with HR. Due to confidentiality reasons the average worker is never aware of what is going on. It is limited to upper management to behind the seen discussions. HR has become a direct chimney for many corporations. It is ranked with upper management and plays a pivot role.

Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:50:33

HR is bunk. I mean, seriously, what DO those people do all day that actually justifies their jobs?

In fact, that could be said for most “business” jobs in America at this point. What do these jobs involve besides shuffling papers, bluffing managers to make it look like you’re contributing something important, writing nonsensical “reports” that nobody reads anyway, etc etc?

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Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 10:36:58

My “business” job is really nothing but shuffling papers…except, the money I lend is my own. Banks are not lending even to reasonable prospects. There’s plenty of room in my line of business for other HBBer’s whose money may be idle.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:39:04

When I worked in the purchasing dept. of a publicly traded company ten years ago, I had to generate reports for every Friday “meeting”. What a complete waste of time it was. They were glanced over then ended up in the trash. The whole meeting was a horrendous waste of money. No surprise that the company crashed and burned.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:40:39

“There’s plenty of room in my line of business for other HBBer’s whose money may be idle.”

Do you think everyone just has a pile of cash sitting around? You’re the exception, not the rule. Be darn happy for what you have.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 12:06:11

Well, AZ got me thinking about different prospects in a new way.

 
Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-04 20:45:40

Yes Milkcrate - AZ Lenders post caught my attention as well. I’ve been reading of his quirky lending for years (with utmost respect) and just now with his post made me realize there may be something to do with the financial assets I sidelined in Oct. 07. While I have long admired his business model, I never even considered I might be able to follow his strategy.

I’ve piddled with ETF’s and other things but in reality hate the stupidity of the market. So AZ - how about a lesson in individual lending? Heck, I’d pay a bit for some of your expertise. Cash…just sitting…painful

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 22:22:11

AZ Lender is a female, btw (from what I remember).

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 10:47:11

MY HR dept was offshored to Manila and India recently.
The HR dept currently has no idea of what our programs are, and are not allowed/have no access to the the ‘benefits’ portion of our webpage for our co.
Along with that there is the language problems inherent.
Therefore, our ‘chickypoos’ are not your typical chickypoos but are in fact dumb as rocks ie: have no reason to exist in its current form.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 10:48:48

MY HR dept was offshored to Manila and India recently.
The HR dept currently has no idea of what our programs are, and are not allowed/have no access to the the ‘benefits’ portion of our webpage for our co.
Along with that there is the language problems inherent.
Therefore, our ‘chickypoos’ are not your typical chickypoos but are in fact dumb as rocks ie: have no reason to exist in its current form.

And it would seem ’someone’ has been drinking the company koolaid.

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Comment by SaladSD
2009-05-04 23:21:53

HR is basically HAL.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-05-04 05:13:45

The majority of politicians come from legal, not business backgrounds. A mindset that private business and employment can be legislated out of existence is very common among business people as they have experienced it firsthand. It is easy to destroy private business and employment with legislation, excessive taxation, and regulation.

A mindset that private business and employment can be legislated INTO existence is very common among politicians as they tend to confuse the power to destroy with the power to create.

Politicians never want to address the unintended consequences of their well intended legislation, taxation and regulations. Private business people address those consequences by cutting the size of their businesses, moving them, or closing them.

When the government becomes the main employer in a country, you see the result of the unintended consequences on an economy.
When the government becomes the main employer in a country, you see what happens when the political motive replaces the profit motive. You see a scarcity of private business and an abundance of economic death.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 05:42:57

“The more time workers spend without a job, the less attractive they become to potential employers, Ball says. That in itself helps keep the unemployment rate elevated.

“If you’re unemployed” for an extended period, “you’re not keeping up with new technology,” he says. “You become discouraged and you change your lifestyle.”

I can’t stand statements like this. Says who?

Comment by Jim A.
2009-05-04 06:06:55

I have to agree that this is stupid. Yes, long periods of unemployment are looked at askance by employers when comparing potential hires. But that probably has NO effect on employment levels. If you feel a need to hire an additional employee, you’re unlikely to change your mind because all of the applicants have been unemployed.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 06:08:30

All the HR departments who have been turning down aNYCdj. All the mothers who took 5 years off to get the kids into school. It’s true about the new technology too.

I’m not sure how people change their lifestyle though, except to become more frugal. Which has nothing to do with working.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-05-04 13:54:42

Click on my handle at least i have a myspace page, working on Facebook .registered a couple of websites,

Not really into twitter yet since i don’t have those new fangled touch i phone with full keyboard…

But yeah im out of touch with the TMZ Perez Hilton gameboy xbox gamer airhead hipster and chickypoos.

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Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-05-04 06:11:12

I am working in IT right now, and the contract that I am on is about to end in a couple of months. I am looking at an extended period of UI, but I am going to take some classes, and do some skill updating.
I do not have high hopes for the future of the IT field that is able to be shipped indiscriminately out of the country. The skills that I provide, are fungible, and can be done for a cheaper price in some slave hole like India or China. We can endlessly discuss how we (at least my team) provide excellent service and support, and are far exceeding our SLA’s, even though our indian bretheren struggle to just be understood.
That unfortunately ceased to be a selling point, and the only thing that companies are looking for is how cheaply they can provide a mediocre service, in order to loot the customer, so that higher ups can have their private jets, and 10,000 a plate dinners.
So, where is the job growth going to come from? Medical, Finance, Manufacturing, Service, Food, transportation?

Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 08:01:04

So, where is the job growth going to come from?

Government or contracting related to them..

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Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 08:08:25

“So, where is the job growth going to come from?”

Some are saying nowhere.

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:42:21

That’s what’s frightening.

 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-05-04 08:23:44

Open source surface to air missle platforms that target corporate jets.

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Comment by Northeastener
2009-05-04 08:48:03

Open source surface to air missle platforms that target corporate jets.

ROTFLMAO. Good one VaBeyatch…

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-05-04 15:14:11

IF I thought it would do any good to explain the value of these airplanes to anyone, I would.

Our client has been based in flyover country since the 1890s. One hundred and twenty years later, most of their business, and their expansion opportunities, are on the coasts.

Call them sentimental, but they have elected to maintain their HQ (and the thousands of jobs they create) in the city they were founded in. This city has NO airline service, nearest airport is an hour and a half away (and it’s not a hub). A trip to either coast means a full day of travel each way, and a day to do their business/presentation. Plus three days of hotel rooms, meals, rental cars, etc, etc.

OTOH, with their airplane, they depart out of here at o-dark thirty, and are on either coast before 9:00am. They do their meeting, and are back around dinnertime on the same day.

We can have the airplane ready and airborne within 3 hours and be at ANY ADDRESS anywhere in the lower 48 within 6 hours, if needed. And you don’t have to worry about whatever exotic bugs your fellow airline passengers might be carrying.

There are thousands of companies that have decided that they need their own airplane, for any number of reason. Just ask yourself how well you would be able to do what you needed to do if your ONLY long distance transportation option was the local bus or subway system.

It’s too bad that we seem to be intent on wrecking a business where US/North American manufacturers, suppliers, operators and maintainers are the WORLD leaders in quality and price, and do about 80% of the new airplane sales worldwide.

 
 
Comment by phillygal
2009-05-04 08:35:53

The skills that I provide, are fungible, and can be done for a cheaper price in some slave hole like India or China. We can endlessly discuss how we (at least my team) provide excellent service and support, and are far exceeding our SLA’s, even though our indian bretheren struggle to just be understood.

And are earning their equivalent of our minimum wage, and are thrilled about it.

Our office has experienced that very dynamic. Support for the program that is the backbone and driver of our operations is outsourced to India. We have been in too many clutch situations when we have been forced to spend too much time:
a) trying to understand the IT dude
and/or
b) chasing down the IT dude, who, since they’re on the other side of the world, have the direct opposite working schedule.

Our corporate overlords simply DO NOT CARE. They just posted another profit (Q1). Somehow we muddle through, greatly assisted by the fact that some of us have cultivated relationships with U.S. based IT personnel, thank God, yes we do still have some in our company’s HQ state.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-04 09:39:23

And this is why there will be no real improvement in employment since there’s always some near-slave who’ll do half your job for 1/10 the wage.

 
 
Comment by Northeastener
2009-05-04 12:02:02

So, where is the job growth going to come from? Medical, Finance, Manufacturing, Service, Food, transportation?

I think you’re asking the wrong question. You should be asking not what industry will provide the job growth, but what geographic region has the best prospects for job growth and hiring going forward. If you can’t find a job in your current location, expand the search to other parts of the country. Be willing and able to relocate, even if it’s temporary.

I attended the MySQL Conference in Santa Clara, CA two weeks ago. While there, I made a number of contacts, one of who offered me a job if I would relocate to Dallas, TX. I and my wife are gainfully employed, so we have no desire to leave MA at present, but if I were to lose my job, I wouldn’t think twice about moving.

It’s either that or start your own business. At least then your fate is directly impacted by your business acumen, work ethic, and luck, as opposed to some manager’s analysis of line item costs in Excel and the fact that his bonus is tied to how much he can cut from the budget.

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Comment by packman
2009-05-04 06:11:25

In my experience the opposite is true. I learned a lot more about new technologies the two months last year I was unemployed than I typically learned in two years on the job.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-05-04 07:33:28

Agreed, but it is all up to the individual. Not everyone reacts to adversity the same way. Some do indeed spiral down unless they keep busy and engaged.

Hands down, when laid off the best thing to do is enroll in school ASAP - in most cities there’s always some kind of class starting. Cooking, first aid, sewing, SCUBA - it doesn’t matter because it just might open a door or two.

Of course one has to have savings to do this, but that’s another story.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 10:44:38

the best thing to do is enroll in school ASAP - in most cities there’s always some kind of class starting. Cooking, first aid, sewing, SCUBA - it doesn’t matter because it just might open a door or two.

Or if you can’t do the class thing, you could volunteer. There’s always scores of worthy and interesting projects going on.
Heckfire, go start your OWN worthy project. Yessirree, just march right on out there and shout loudly to the world: ‘I’m going to replant riparian corridors! Yank out invasive species! Be a Big Brother/Big Sister to a needy kid! Systematically locate and briskly b*tch-slap each and every developer in Olympia, starting alphabetically!’
Like that, see. Before you know it, the world will be a better place.

Lookit this, for just one example, here in Olympia:

http://tinyurl.com/co3ssg
Another kitchen garden sponsored by Garden-Raised Bounty, or GRuB, sprouted in the backyard of Donnia Douglass last week.
It is one of 100 gardens the nonprofit group will build this spring in South Sound to help low-income and no-income families grow and enjoy fresh vegetables from their own backyards….a volunteer crew helped Douglass nail together lumber for three, 32 square-foot raised garden beds, prepared a pea trellis and filled the boxes with garden soil. “My kids were so excited, they wanted to stay home from school today to help.”

Awesome! Huh huh huh!
And as for networking or ‘opening a door or two’—I’ve met many very cool people and made some quite valuable contacts at volunteer and fund-raising events.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 16:14:12

I’ll never understand why volunteering is a good idea when you’re unemployed. To make contacts? Open doors? Both extremely weak arguments. I’ve found neither to be true and more often than not, the charity org itself is flaky.

Ex: I recently volunteered to do some IT work for local charity. A rather large one. They contacted me after about a month and a half AFTER, after, I contacted them. We had one meeting. I then proceeded to get started but still needed some important info from them. No response. Repeated request. Nothing. Tried again. Nothing. That was 2 months ago.

I just wasted my time and money. And this isn’t the first time.

So to say that when one is unemployed one should use their own time and money for someone else’s project when they themselves AREN’T MAKING MONEY doesn’t make sense.

I hope this worked for someone, but it’s never worked for me. And I will never again use my meager resources to benefit someone else without benefiting myself. If I were wealthy, different story…

 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 09:46:04

Same here. Usually when I’m working I don’t have the time or motivation to look into things outside of work.

Now that I’m bored out of my mind and need an excuse to use my brain, I’m finding little projects for myself, and learning along the way.

Of course, that doesn’t help how potential employers view me.

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Comment by skroodle
2009-05-04 06:32:19

As my boss has told me, companies don’t get rid of their best workers and the ones unemployed for a long time must be really bad.

Of course, to him, best really means those that are really good at brown nosing.

Comment by Jim A.
2009-05-04 07:37:53

Of course, to him, best really means those that are really good at brown nosing.

A critical competancy in most businesses….

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Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 07:49:26

And when an entire business unit gets shut down? Everyone goes down with the ship.

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Comment by measton
2009-05-04 08:46:12

As my boss has told me, companies don’t get rid of their best workers and the ones unemployed for a long time must be really bad.

As I recall Circuit City did exactly that, fired all the peopel who had been with the company for a long while and had earned promotions. Then they replaced them with minimum wage slaves. We all know the end of the story, but I’m sure the CEO propped the stock up long enough to sell some shares.

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Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 09:59:05

Not always. Often times when a business “threatens” its employees in an attempt to cull the herd, the best people leave because they have prospects elsewhere. Thus, the company unintentionally accumulates the lousy employees that know they wouldn’t get by elsewhere.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-05-04 10:16:14

Julius– I’d argue that’s what we often see in government. I call it the “pouring the cream off the top,” factor.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2009-05-04 10:40:49

As my boss has told me, companies don’t get rid of their best workers and the ones unemployed for a long time must be really bad.

I was laid off in Jan 2003 after new management was brought in. They didn’t care about productivity, only the bottom line. I was high on the list of well-compensated technical staff and was one of the first to be let go by the new management, even though I was the only person in the company who knew our Financial, CRM and Web systems inside and out… I was asked to find and train the outsourcing company that eventually took my job. My other responsibilities were given over to a junior staffer who made less than half what I did. They got what they paid for…

In terms of value to the company, the previous management viewed me as an asset because of my technical knowledge, ability to deliver results on time and budget, and work ethic. New management only viewed me as an expense to be minimized. I have nothing but disdain for those managers who only consider cost in terms of headcount. I am a firm believer in the idea that the employees are the greatest asset of any company.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 16:26:24

Exactly. It’s ALWAYS about expense.

“You make too much money, therefore, you’re fired. We can get the new college to do your job for 1/3 the money. You have 1 hour to clean out your desk.”

Not to mention the insane amount of age discrimination against older workers for exactly the same reason. Money.

“No, I can’t live on $10hr. I can’t even afford to come to work for that kind of money. And yes, I do have more experience than you, you snot nosed brat.”

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 16:27:32

“….college grad…”

Grrrrr. :mad:

 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 09:50:24

companies don’t get rid of their best workers and the ones unemployed for a long time must be really bad.

I used to think something like that…read about people out of work for a year+ after the dot-com bust, and figured they must just have really sucked. Yet, here I am on month 7 (I think), and there just aren’t many opportunities out there. I have a strong resume, great references, and have had several good interviews where, if the company felt they could hire someone, I’d have a job, but they’re all holding off for now…

Sucks to think that I’ll be “discriminated” against as a result. But, oh well..not much I can do about it.

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:46:19

Companies are actually conducting interviews though they’re not hiring? Talk about a waste of time and money…

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-05-04 11:16:06

Companies are actually conducting interviews though they’re not hiring? Talk about a waste of time and money…

I have a friend in academia who was offered and accepted a job at another university this year, only to have the offer rescinded because of a budget shortfall. First time that’s ever happened to anybody I know. Thankfully he hadn’t given notice at his current institution, so he’s still got his job.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-05-04 11:29:20

This was back at the end of November. I think at that point both the companies I’m referring to were still thinking of hiring more people, but were just starting to transition to a more “defensive” stance.

I could have mis-read the situation, though.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-05-04 14:19:07

“I have a friend in academia who was offered and accepted a job at another university this year, only to have the offer rescinded because of a budget shortfall. First time that’s ever happened to anybody I know. Thankfully he hadn’t given notice at his current institution, so he’s still got his job.”

Yikes - that’s dreadful.

 
 
 
 
Comment by in Colorado
2009-05-04 06:27:16

Another “jobless recovery”? Who would have thought?

Of course, we need another 100,000+ guest workers every month! I have to say that the Indians are becoming very ubiquitous at the office.

Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 08:05:04

Ditto here…

 
Comment by Skip
2009-05-04 08:45:39

USCIS Updates Count of FY2010 H-1B Petition Filings

WASHINGTON — U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced April 27, 2009 an updated number of filings for H-1B petitions for the fiscal year 2010 program.

USCIS has received approximately 45,000 H-1B petitions counting toward the Congressionally-mandated 65,000 cap. The agency continues to accept petitions subject to the general cap.

Additionally, the agency has received approximately 20,000 petitions for aliens with advanced degrees; however, we continue to accept advanced degree petitions since experience has shown that not all petitions received are approvable. Congress mandated that the first 20,000 of these types of petitions are exempt from any fiscal year cap on available H-1B visas.

For cases filed for premium processing during the initial five-day filing window, the 15-day premium processing period began April 7. For cases filed for premium processing after the filing window, the premium processing period begins on the date USCIS takes physical possession of the petition.

Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:36:30

Anybody want to translate?

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Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-05-04 10:05:23

It used to be that H1B visas were gone in the first day or so. The large Indian outsourcing companies have divisions that work and live in the US for a couple of years to get the “hang” of the culture, and then move back to become supervisors or managers. It used to be that most of the H1B’s were employed by foreign companies, although some notorious exceptions are out there, specially Microsoft, Cisco, IBM, and Oracle.
The thing about H1B’s is that they are the closest thing to slavery that is allowed in this country. They are told to do what the boss feels like, and if the boss feels like firing them, they have 21 days from the date of firing to get onto a plane home.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 11:13:25

So this means that the H1-B’s aren’t filling up as fast, right? I don’t kow whether that’s a good sign or not.

 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-05-04 11:29:50

That, in a big picture kind of way is bad news. It costs about 7K in fees, and lawyering to get an H1B. The positions not being filled out with H1B’s might have to be filled out with GASP!!! US citizens, but according to Bill Gates and Larry Ellison, there are NO qualified US citizens to perform the duty that these invaluable H1B’s perform (at the slave wage they are willing to pay, no doubt), so therefore those “functions” will need to go to where the “talent” is….
Therefore further layoffs of support personnel for these people, as they see their jobs get shipped to India/China as quickly as possible.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-05-04 14:26:42

Oh man. H1-B Realtors. That’d be funny. A while ago I made jokes about using VOIP to outsource the speakerbox at fast food drive-thrus. Now they do it. Let’s outsource Realtors.

 
 
 
Comment by Cactus
2009-05-04 20:15:25

“Of course, we need another 100,000+ guest workers every month! I have to say that the Indians are becoming very ubiquitous at the office.”

soon they may become citizens if they buy a house. Thats one proposal I keep hearing talking about to support RE prices.

 
 
Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 07:39:15

This article could have been written in 1992. I remember reading all sorts of predictions like that back then too. All the jobs were gone, companies were laying people off, they were never going to be employed, the world was ending (and PS vote for Clinton and he will fix it all).

I was a senior in high school in 1992 and remember freaking out that I would graduate from college 4 years later and work at Burger King for the rest of my life because there would be no more jobs available. Didn’t quite turn out like that after all.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 07:51:31

Why do you think so many jumped on the housing bandwagon and became Realtors, mortgage brokers, contractors, flippers, etc.

I personally know several people who were put out to pasture by Coprorate America who did one of the above.

Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 08:11:36

who did one of the above ??

Ease of entry….

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Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 08:13:13

The housing boom started about 10 years after 1992. What were they doing for all that time? The realtors, mortgage brokers I knew were 22 year old recent grads, not 50 year olds who who were laid off by IBM.

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Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 10:11:11

The mega boom started in the late 90’s. But the exodus began before. After all they were building, selling and financing a decent # of houses even in the 90’s.

And I know plenty of 30-50 year olds who jumped on the band wagon at one point or another. Out here most Realtors are older. I can’t say I ever met a 22 year old realtor. I did meet a lot of young guys with college degrees who become builders or subs, and a few older guys as well.

There is a reason middle aged folks end up in these jobs. Corporate America won’t touch them with an 11 foot pole. They had no other choice other than to become self employed. Some also tried opening little shops: generic Starbucks clones, teddy bear and craft shops, candle shops, etc. Some tried franchising. Some tried selling insurance. Etc.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 10:16:05

I would say that another difference between the 90’s and the 2000’s is that older folks got into brokering houses and mortgages to survive, while in the 2000’s it attracted younger people who wanted to get rich quick and who couldn’t get a real job with Corporate America anyway.

 
 
Comment by GeorgeSalt
2009-05-04 08:42:24

Back in 2005, two co-workers walked away from well-paying engineering positions to pursue full-time careers as house-flippers. Both felt that it was the only way to “retire as millionaires.” They were office acquaintances rather than friends, so I haven’t kept in touch and I don’t know how that turned out.

For many in the middle class, the RE bubble seemed like their last chance to strike it rich. Many still haven’t accepted the fact that things have changed, and still maintain that the market will return “to normal” in a year or two, and they still define “normal” as double-digit annual increases.

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Comment by phillygal
2009-05-04 08:53:22

Re: your last sentence - oh heck yeah.

Just this morning a coworker informed me that house prices were going to rocket back up.

I told him no, there’s still some room on the downside. Didn’t really get into it, just walked out of the break room. Last week, I received advice from a relative that now is a great time to buy because interest rates are low - and the 8k credit, which I don’t qualify for in any case.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-05-04 09:15:41

I would have to say that most still have not accepted that things have changed.

At least HGTV has taken “what is my house worth” off of the air. That is a start.

 
Comment by GeorgeSalt
2009-05-04 09:58:31

Time to Get Rich Quick (Again)

JOSEPH HUFF-HANNON joins the dreamers that believe quick money can be found amidst the real estate rubble.

By Joseph Huff-Hannon

http://www.nypress.com/article-19683-time-to-get-rich-quick-(again).html

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-05-04 11:00:34

“Last week, I received advice from a relative that now is a great time to buy because interest rates are low - and the 8k credit, which I don’t qualify for in any case.”

But wasn’t there the story in the Financial Times that the Fed said the ideal interest rate was -5 percent? When viewed in that context, isn’t a 5 percent interest rate for houses effectively a 10 percent interest rate, not exactly cheap for a depreciating asset.

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:08:40

It’s different than in 1992. If I recall rightly, the 90’s were saved! by the point-and-click computers, and then the Internet,then Cell phones. American productivity zoomed upward, while China and India didn’t have the infrastructure yet to compete.

Computers/internet/cell phones didn’t appear overnight. They were developed over decades using EVIL GOVERNMENT SPENDING. :shock:

Is there any hidden 20-year-old slam-bang technology about to break through that is going to save us this time? Maybe. But if it is, it won’t be six months before it’s pirated by China and India. I don’t see a repeat of 1995-2001.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 09:13:44

Heaven knows - there weren’t any significant technological advances before the 1990’s. :)

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Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 10:51:46

Well if I am to believe Sir Obama of Honolulu millions of new jobs will be created in the wiz bank “green” technology sector.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-05-04 11:18:48

“Computers/internet/cell phones didn’t appear overnight. They were developed over decades using EVIL GOVERNMENT SPENDING.”

They’d have been developed a lot sooner without it. For how long did the gov’t enforce a phone monopoly? Wasn’t the slogan “Universal service, Universal pricing, Universal coverage” — something like that? Reminds me of “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer”. How conducive is that to progress? And how long did it take to get the FCC to agree that attaching modems to phone lines was OK as long as it didn’t affect other subscribers?

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-04 09:43:33

Considering that nearly all the growth since 1992 has been driven by assorted unsustainable Bubbles - the Tech Bubble and then the Housing Bubble - once the economy stabilizes at the proper, depressingly low level it would be at without Bubbles, the nightmare of perpetual underemployment for all maybe realized.

 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-05-04 11:55:56

God bless the 1990s. If you were in IT and contactor, you got rich saving companies from the dreaded Y2K end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scare. Everybody was upgrading their in-house code, ERP software and customizations. I miss those billion dollar an hour billable days somethin bad. Somebody needs to fabricate anothert Y2K-like schtick fast.

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-05-04 09:13:00

Laurence Ball, an economics professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, says unemployment may peak at 10 percent, and “it will be a long time before we see 5 percent” again.

In other words, unemployment will settle at its pre-bubble norm.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-05-04 10:41:06

There is no such thing as a “normal” or “sustainable” unemployment… economics is much more complex and any “theory” that must change as a result of this recession is a terrible theory to begin with.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-04 09:32:00

Looks like they’ll just have to keep redefining “unemployed” so the masses don’t get spooked at New Amerika where 10% unemployment (U3, not U6) is the norm!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-05-04 04:12:38

Obama seeks tax changes for U.S. firms overseas…

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Monday will propose changing provisions in the tax code that he says encourage U.S. companies to move jobs overseas, as part of a broader package aimed at saving $210 billion over 10 years.

U.S. officials said that in an announcement planned for 11:05 EDT (1505 GMT), Obama will seek to follow through on a campaign promise to change the tax treatment of American firms with overseas operations.

That portion of his plan — opposed by such firms as Pfizer Inc and Oracle Corp — would raise more than $100 billion in revenue over the next decade.

In an echo of a line he used often on the campaign trail last year, Obama vowed in a February address to the U.S. Congress to make the tax code more fair by “finally ending the tax breaks for corporations that ship our jobs overseas.”

Currently, U.S. firms are allowed to defer paying taxes on profits earned overseas if they plow those profits back into their foreign subsidiaries.

Critics say those rules encourage businesses to bolster their foreign operations instead of creating jobs at home.

But an array of firms signed onto a letter to congressional leaders in March opposing changes to the so-called deferral provision, saying they would make U.S. businesses less competitive.

The letter was signed by 200 companies and trade associations, including Pfizer, Oracle, Microsoft Corp Johnson & Johnson and General Electric Co as well as the Business Roundtable and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

The letter said the firms would not be on a level playing field with international rivals, many of which are not required to pay taxes at home on overseas entities.

Senior U.S. officials who described Obama’s plans said they were balanced and would not put excessive burdens on firms.

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 10:45:00

This is excellent news! The tax cheats are in for a rude awakening. Screw M$, Pfizer, Oracle, and the rest. The days of something for nothing are over. If you don’t like it, leave. Good luck running your companies from a 3rd world country. You are going to need it.

Next up, the health insurance companies. And the great news is the GOP and their corporate buddies can’t do a damn thing about it. It’s morning in America. Only this time it isn’t the twisted version that Ronnie had in mind.

It’s all good.

Comment by realestateskeptic
2009-05-04 12:41:09

I wish I thought you were being sarcastic… It is morning is America but I think the Obama train is about to wreck, hopefully Pelosi, Dodd and Schumer are upfront when it slams into the bridge abutment.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 13:09:59

Throw in a few Republicans with your list of Democrats and I’ll be more than happy to have the train slam into the bridge abutment.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 13:38:43

Throw everybody currently in any elected position at the state level and higher and you’ll REALLY do some good. I’m sure the 3% that aren’t on the take from the lobbyists/etc is a worthwhile price to pay.

 
 
 
Comment by varelse
2009-05-04 12:48:40

It’s more of the vision Che Guevara had, eh?

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 13:17:40

Anything is better than crony capitalism. And I do mean anything.

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Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 13:13:40

What is not to like?

Many of those corporations are beneficiaries of billions in taxpayer dollars under the Troubled Asset Relief Program. Morgan Stanley, for instance, boasts 273 subsidiaries in tax havens, with 158 in the Cayman Islands alone. Citigroup’s got 427, with 90 in the Cayman Islands, and 59 of Bank of America’s tax-haven subsidiaries are there as well.

The GAO found 18,857 businesses are registered at just one address in the Cayman Islands — the “Ugland House.” The report said that “Ugland House registered entities included investment funds, structured-finance vehicles, and entities associated with other corporate activities.”

Are you actually defending these companies?

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 13:46:52

Arguing with ourselves now, are we?

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Comment by bluprint
2009-05-04 15:38:03

My thought also. Who is he talking to?

 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 17:48:07

You guys cannot spot a post that went in the wrong spot anymore? Is it REALLY that hard to spot?

Talk about REACHING!

 
Comment by bluprint
2009-05-04 19:43:54

That would make sense if there were someone “defending these companies.” The post didn’t seem to match as a response to any of the posts in this thread.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 04:18:50

Ex-owners and renters getting aggressive to resist getting kicked out.

Lots of interesting stuff in that article.



Steve Whetzel has increasingly been dealing with the first group. He runs KNK Home Preservation in Warrenton, a company banks hire to clear out newly foreclosed homes. It was never unusual to find rotting food, broken appliances and less-than-sightly bathrooms left behind by disgruntled residents.

But in recent weeks, Whetzel said, he’s responded to cases in which homeowners have threatened to harm themselves or others. About six weeks ago, at a house north of Frederick, a man threatened to kill members of Whetzel’s crew, and county SWAT team members were called in. In a case outside Baltimore, a father tried to commit suicide by overdosing on pills as he was being evicted. His two children were still inside the house.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-05-04 04:19:39

http://www.zoyzoy.com/realestate/caseshiller.php

A quick and easy charting of shack prices… CS and OFHEO. A cool bubble video too on menu bar too.

 
Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-04 05:06:32

The government-run mortgage financiers can refinance loans up to 105 per cent of a property’s value. WHEN WILL THESE IDIOTS LEARN

US mortgage cuts offer spending boost
By Saskia Scholtes and Chrystia Freeland in New York
Published: May 3 2009 22:36 | Last updated: May 3 2009 22:36
US homeowners could save close to $18bn (€13.5bn, £12bn) on their mortgage repayments this year as record low interest rates allow millions of borrowers to switch to cheaper home loans.
Those people that took advantage of cheaper borrowing costs in the first quarter saved about $160 a month on a $200,000 loan, Frank Nothaft, chief economist at Freddie Mac said.
“In aggregate, this adds up to about $2.5bn in extra spending cash in the pockets of those homeowners to spend over the coming year.”
With the refinancing trends expected to be boosted by the government’s plans to help more borrowers to qualify for mortgage renegotiations, this year’s savings for homeowners could reach $18bn.
The sum would add firepower to the existing stimulus and underpin US personal consumption, which totalled $10,000bn in 2008.
Wilbur Ross, the billionaire investor, said in an interview with the Financial Times that the positive effects of giving consumers additional disposable income were being felt.
“It’s already having hundreds of billions of dollars of impact. The consumer is 70 per cent or thereabouts of the economy, so those are high-velocity dollars,” he said.
The savings are based on refinancing loans that qualify for backing by Freddie Mac and rival Fannie Mae with a 5 per cent interest rate. Few borrowers with non-qualifying loans – either because their mortgages are too large or too risky – will benefit because interest rates on this debt remains high.
Under the government programme, borrowers who have mortgages owned by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac can refinance without additional mortgage insurance costs, even if the loan is more than 80 per cent of a home’s value.
The government-run mortgage financiers can refinance loans up to 105 per cent of a property’s value.
But John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics, warned that the impact of the savings on the economy might not be as immediate as some hope.
It can take up to a year for borrowers to recoup the cost of refinancing fees from their savings, while some of the benefit will also be offset by a higher tax bill, he said.
Mortgage interest payments are tax deductible. Similarly, the benefit of savings for consumers could be offset by the lower investment income for investors in mortgage bonds.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d586a694-3828-11de-9211-00144feabdc0.html

 
Comment by palmetto
Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 08:14:32

Buffet had some interesting comments this morning regarding this..Basically said print news is doomed…

Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-05-04 12:24:49

I read that the few print media operations that jumped to online have done so poorly. The print and online departments are sometimes two separate entities that don’t support each other and it is a mess. Let’s say these news operations get their act together and provide decent online coverage comparable to print. I then wonder where my 86 year old Aunt and the millions of others who are not of computer generation will get their indepth local news?

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-05-04 14:38:33

The laser printer?

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Comment by Asparagus
2009-05-04 08:45:02

The Globe led me here. I could only read so many RE articles where the sources were a real estate agent and a Mortgage broker before I started looking for something more.

At one point in ‘06, I sent a nasty email to the reporter. She called me 2 hours later. She said she couldn’t find anyone in the the Boston RE industry to come straight out say on record, that this is going to be a mess. Though, she thought some were thinking that.

Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 10:47:34

Was it Kimberly Blanton? (I hate her.)

Comment by Asparagus
2009-05-04 13:00:28

No names! no names!

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Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-04 05:19:08

Troubled banks must be allowed a way to fail
By Thomas Hoenig
Published: May 3 2009 19:01 | Last updated: May 3 2009 19:01

When the financial crisis began to unfold in 2007, US policymakers reacted quickly out of fear that rapidly evolving events would lead to a global economic collapse. In my view, the policy response to this point has been ad hoc, resulting in inequitable outcomes among firms, creditors, and investors. Despite taking a number of actions to stabilise markets and institutions, uncertainty continues and markets remain stressed.
I believe there is an alternative method for addressing this crisis that deals more effectively with the issues we currently face while also considering the long-run consequences of those actions: the implementation of a systematic plan to resolve large, problem financial institutions.
In recent weeks, I have outlined such a resolution framework for dealing with these large, systemically important institutions. Boiled down to its simplest elements, the plan would require those firms seeking government assistance to make the taxpayer senior to all shareholders, with the government determining the circumstances for managers and directors. These firms would be operated by outside individuals with no conflicts involving either the firm or its competitors.
Non-viable institutions would be allowed to fail and be placed into a negotiated conservatorship or a bridge institution, with the bad assets liquidated while the remainder of the firm is operated under new management and re-privatised as soon as is feasible. This plan is similar to what was done in Sweden in the 1990s and in the US with the failure of Continental Illinois in the 1980s.
This plan has many advantages, including that management and shareholders bear the costs for their actions before taxpayer funds are committed. This process also is equitable across all firms; is similar to what is currently done with smaller banks; and provides a definitive process that should reduce market uncertainty. These are important reasons to implement this kind of resolution process.
In contrast to this suggested approach, the current policy raises a host of issues:
● Certain companies have not been allowed to fail and, as a result, the moral hazard problem has substantially worsened. Capitalism is a process of failure and renewal, and a “too big to fail” policy undermines this renewal and makes the financial system and our economy less efficient.
● So-called “too big to fail” firms have been given a competitive advantage and, rather than being held accountable for their actions, they have actually been subsidised in becoming more economically and politically powerful.
● The US government has poured billions of dollars into these firms without a defined resolution process, adding to our national debt. While there will be some repayment, there also will be losses. The longer resolution is postponed, the greater the losses and the larger the debt burden.
● As these institutions are under repair, the Federal Reserve is making loans directly to specific sectors of the economy, causing the Fed to allocate credit and take on a fiscal as well as a monetary policy role. This is reflected in the fact that its balance sheet continues to swell, which may compromise the independence of the Federal Reserve and make it more difficult to contain inflation in the years to come.
● Failing effectively to resolve these non-viable firms has long-term consequences. We have entrenched these even larger, systemically important, “too big to fail” institutions into the economic system, assuring that past mistakes will be repeated.
Certainly, the approach I suggest for resolving these large firms also is not without substantial cost, but it looks to both the short and long run.
A systematic approach would reduce the uncertainty that has paralysed financial markets; the cost is more measurable and therefre manageable; and there will be fewer adverse consequences compared to the path we are on now.
Because we still have far to go in this crisis, there remains time to define a clear process for resolving large institutional failure. Without one, the consequences will involve a series of short-term events and far more uncertainty for the global economy in the long run.
While I agree that central banks must sometimes take actions affecting the short run, they must keep the long run in focus or risk failing their mission.
The writer is president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/46e2f784-380b-11de-9211-00144feabdc0.html

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2009-05-04 06:07:36

Hi All. I just returned from my trip with my sister to Grand Rapids. We closed on a $35,000 house for our other sister on Thursday and spent all day Friday buying stuff and employing workmen. Lowes and Home Depot employees were very helpful, and plumbers, etc came over to do work on short notice. Everybody was grateful for the work. It will be a pain to maintain this house over the years, but it’s the perfect solution for a person who has a hard time getting along with landlords, etc. I talked to her last night and she is having a great time painting and cleaning. This week she’ll start the garden.

Comment by Elanor
2009-05-04 08:21:31

You earned a lot of good karma this weekend, REhobbyist.

 
Comment by phillygal
2009-05-04 08:54:51

35k for a house, is it a single?

Can you give us a few details about the neighborhood, etc. Just want something to compare to my neck of the woods.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-05-04 09:01:22

Good story!

 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:15:41

Yes please! I ‘d love to hear about it. $35K is good for a house, even in Michigan, as long as it’s habitable. It’s not hard to blow through $35K in rent.

 
Comment by james
2009-05-04 09:36:35

I like the grand rapids area. Probably could find a house that sells for 35k there costs 420k in Lost Angeles.

 
 
Comment by cassiopeia
2009-05-04 06:25:57

Haven’t visited the blog for a while but felt I had to come back for a little reassurance. What’s with people still buying overpriced homes in LA in this environment? Two doors away from a friend’s house in Carthay Place, a duplex sold in about two months. Last price was $1.185 million or so. They had shaved off the price 100K but hey, I still don’t get it. Other acquaintances bought for over a million in Sherman Oaks. People keep going on and on abou the low interest rates, the LA Times ran a story on bidding wars in LA. Help.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 07:51:07

The problem is - there is a certain segment of the population that would filter what you just said as:

“blah blah blah blah They had shaved off the price 100K blah blah blah blah blah low interest rates blah blah blah.”

:)

Comment by Mikey(2)
2009-05-04 08:10:30

LOL. So true.

Comment by beachchic
2009-05-04 10:53:19

I read this article, too. After reading it, I concluded the piece is REIC propaganda to scare people into bidding wars. It also painted the picture that the sellers still hold the cards. Very frustrating!

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Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2009-05-04 09:30:40

Or they hear it like Charlie Brown’s teacher is talking. Wa wah waaawah wah wa.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-04 09:53:05

People are still dreaming… housing “only goes up!” and 10 to 15% annual appreciation forever while salaries decline makes complete sense!

 
Comment by sitting on the sideline
2009-05-04 11:38:45

I’m in the same boat with you Cass. I have friends that were waiting on the sidelines along side me. However, with lower interest rates and dip in prices, they are anxious to buy. I have a couple of friends that are buying in the LA area where I still think prices are too high. This blog has given me reassurance that I’m not crazy.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 17:02:15

LA? There’s you answer right there. A city whose population is as divorced from reality as it gets. They make Congress look level headed.

 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-05-04 06:26:20

Former mortgage broker finds new growth industry - painting lawns green:

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-spray-painted-grass2-2009may02,0,4402554.story?track=ntothtml

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 08:29:56

“new growth industry - painting lawns green”

By the end of this, we might be painting loose leaf paper green. Lol.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-05-04 06:33:32

Anybody got any housing observations?

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 08:12:03

My in-laws had an open house in upstate — 7 couples showed.

 
Comment by sagesse
2009-05-04 08:59:11

Acquaintance of mine bought house two years ago for 239K. Installed solar panels ( not the flat ones - they look like a corrugated metal quarter circle), and an Ikea like kitchen (I have nothing against Ikea, but be careful to touch anything), linoleum floor which scratches when you look at it sharply (but a very chic color). Temperature in the house rises and falls in tandem with the outside weather, and the rising and setting sun (no insulation to speak of).
She tried to sell house last year for 517K. It did not work, which is why I got to stay there. Now she wants 499K. 100 % appreciation, all because of these ‘improvements’ ? I am all for solar, but the electricity bills in these parts are as low as 30 per month.

Her friend is a small time realtor - not dealing with million dollar properties. She pulled into the driveway yesterday with a huge Lexus SUV; these cars maybe are the preferred weapon of intimidation.

Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:27:57

When was this house built?

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 09:12:03

I drove down to Carlyon beach this morning to drop off some stuff before work and saw with mild amazement that even MORE houses are now for sale. There’s a ‘for sale’ sign on every block, or else two of ‘em, it seems. I recall a few years ago hearing from someone that realtors had been walking from house to house knocking on doors and leaving cards ‘just in case the owner ever wanted to sell’. And then the ever delightful bidding wars when someone did want to sell…
My, how times have changed.

Ahhh…it was a nice sight to start a Monday with.

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:52:04

The throttling which is in store for most housing markets in western WA can only be described as horrific.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 14:59:53

The throttling which is in store for most housing markets in western WA can only be described as horrific.

Really? I was gonna describe it as ‘Magically Delicious’.

*gives another cheery cackle *

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Comment by eastcoaster
2009-05-04 09:12:50

My parents - whose house has been on the market since June with no offers and 2 price reductions $450K to $440K to the current $420K - is having a Realtor open house today. I had never heard of that before, but it’s for Realtors only and the idea is for them to see the house, give feedback on price/staging/etc. if they have any, and think about any prospective buyers they may have for it.

My advice for my parents? Just drop it to $399,900 and hope for a $350K offer. They don’t want to listen to me.

Comment by phillygal
2009-05-04 09:32:16

Without realizing it, your folks are determined to ride this sucker D-O-W-N.

Probably listening to the “conventional wisdom” still being floated about these parts…

 
Comment by Elanor
2009-05-04 11:28:25

That is common practice where I live (north ‘burbs of Chicago). They are always on Tuesdays. Once I stopped in at one out of curiosity, and when the hostess discovered I wasn’t a Realtard, she pointedly told me the event was ‘to the trade only’. Prior to that, I had only heard of swanky interior design shops in the Merchandise Mart being ‘only to the trade’.

As for parents, please let me know how you get them to listen to their children, should that ever happen! I could use some help with mine.

 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-05-04 12:50:07

Always interesting to see people put their house on the market and then be OK sitting there month after month waiting for a good price. They obviously don’t have to sell. My guess is majority eventually take the house off the market to avoid facing reality. Sort of like never selling a stock even though it has lost 50% value. You have not really lost the money until you sell it.

 
 
Comment by InMontana
2009-05-04 09:20:39

Noticed a nice place near me went FSBO last week, after trying to sell for over a year at least. And it was listed two years ago too by the same owners I think but I’m not sure.

It’s a big custom built place on an acre, very attractive, but they won’t come down on price, want 300+ in an area of 200+ houses, plus it has school property on three sides now. Seems to me to be a sitting duck for condemnation if there is more school expansion. But they want their price dammit!

Comment by Neil
2009-05-04 11:25:25

My wife takes Schadenfreude in watching people chase the market down. However… we just had a mutual friend sell in Torrance CA for much more than what we perceived to be the current market price. So there is a market price (that is going down). All it takes is the greater fool…

That said, who will be left with good credit and a down payment for the Fall? I think we’re due for a wakeup call then.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-05-04 10:55:11

Drove through one of our light industrial corridors (Grand Ave.) this morning on the way to visit a friend’s shop. A 20,000+ square foot air conditioned warehouse — formerly a discount appliance joint — is still unoccupied after more than a year. Saw many smaller commercial spaces empty and for rent or for sale.

Still more condos are going up in this corridor; while there are some nice residential side streets, overall the area is pretty un-glam. Glamor isn’t a necessary ingredient for city living by any means, but the “luxury living” angle is a tough sell in such a utilitarian neighborhood, I’d think.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-05-04 13:21:18

It’s different in Canada. They don’t have the whole foreclosure thing that is driving prices down in the US!

HAHA ;)

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-05-04 06:42:28

U.S. Home Prices May Be Lost for a Generation: John F. Wasik
Commentary by John F. Wasik

May 4 (Bloomberg) — We might be looking at a lost generation for U.S. home values.

Far too many analysts are calling a bottom to the housing market after home prices in 20 metropolitan areas declined at a slower pace in February, according to the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller Index.

Don’t be blinded by the glint of optimism in headlines about rising consumer confidence and slowing price declines. Demographic and market realities tell a more sobering story.

You won’t see a widespread housing rebound in an economy in which 600,000 jobs a month are lost and foreclosures ravage the most overleveraged areas. These are just the visible barriers to a recovery.

Mortgage lending has also been an unusually tightfisted process of late. Lenders are demanding a 20 percent deposit for home purchases, and want impeccable credit ratings. About 45 percent of U.S. banks surveyed by the Federal Reserve said they had “tightened their lending standards on prime mortgages.” I suspect that number is much higher.

Then there’s the reality that the market is glutted with homes. A record 19 million homes stood empty at the end of 2008.

What you can’t see in the most recent housing numbers is the least-visible driver of home prices today: demographics.

Baby Boomers

The baby-boomer generation, the largest in American history, will be buying fewer single-family homes.

The U.S. is experiencing a 40-year generational peak in consumer spending, one that will lead to “the first and last Depression of our lifetimes,” author Harry Dent predicts in his book “The Great Depression Ahead” (Free Press, 2008).

Although we may not be headed for a 1930s-style Depression, there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that boomers are dumping their four- and five-bedroom suburban homes for two- and three- bedroom condominiums.

It’s also unlikely that the “Generation X,” born between 1965 and 1976 (or more derisively called “baby busters”), will bid up home prices. They are only 44 million strong, not as wealthy and even more in debt from college loans.

The baby boomers are reorganizing their finances after a rocky decade in stocks. They aren’t buying as many second homes and vacation properties in warmer climates.

Comment by mina
2009-05-04 08:25:16

they are also buying fewer horses, hence the explosion of abandoned and neglected horses. baby boomer women were buying $20K dressage horses during the boom. that market is now over.

it was a “horse bubble” - watching it collapse is very distressing to me and my friends. slaughter, maybe a necessary evil, is back in the US and will likely be on the rise. the horse industry wants slaughter, it creates a “bottom” on the market for low-end horses (crappy breeding, untrained, infirm, geriatric, etc.)

last year the “bottom” was 1 horse < $0 (can’t give them away.) sellers had to pay buyers to take them. “yeah give me hay money for your horse for a year and enough to cover his meds and MAYBE I’ll take him off your hands.”

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 09:21:46

it was a “horse bubble” - watching it collapse is very distressing to me and my friends.

It IS very, very distressing. I know what you mean about the baby boomer women buying dressage horses. Like they were purses, or other accessories there for them to idly play with…we just barely had a case hereabouts, one of several similar over the last few months, where over a dozen horses were taken from their owner, on death’s doorstep from starvation and neglect. They had to put some down, they were in such bad shape.
I grew up around horses and I know first-hand how loyal, smart, brave, and giant-hearted a good horse is. It’s sickening. The penalties for that sort of abuse should be MUCH harsher than they are.

Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:32:02

Like they were purses, or other accessories

This alone is sickening. You can’t just throw a horse in the closet when it goes out of fashion.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-04 09:57:23

Typical.

Disposable culture = disposable jobs, loyalities, mates, and pets. It is sickening, but this is what our “culture” has come to - people who care only for themselves and who have no ability to think ahead aside from greed!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 09:59:42

You can’t just throw a horse in the closet when it goes out of fashion.

Right.
And that reminds me of my thoughts about the practice of buying cute little ducklings and peeping fluffy yellow chicks and wee baby bunnies for kids around Easter-time. Yes, they’re sooooo adorable. And a month later animal shelters get a bunch of ducklings, chicks, and bunnies that nobody wants anymore, or they just get chucked somewhere. I really disapprove of this practice—it blurs the line between ‘toy’ and ‘living creature’. It brings…I don’t know if I’m articulating this clearly, it causes a lack of respect. I eat ducks and chickens and rabbits, by the way. I just don’t think any living creature should be treated idly, or else as disposable.

Our horses growing up were mostly work horses. We were a team, see. You treat the whole team right.
And when you get an animal, by crackey, you take good, steady care of it for as long as it lives or until you eat it or else until it gets bored and runs away to join the circus, whichever comes first.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-05-04 11:14:57

Don’t ducks normally live in the wild?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 11:35:33

Don’t ducks normally live in the wild?

Sure. And many bunnies also exist within the forest primeval, bounding merrily in the dewy grass and shrubberies. But when you get tired of your purchase and grab up some pet-store bred baby duck/bunny/wombat/gemsbok/etc and chuck it in the woods and drive off, then the result is NOT like on ‘Born Free’. They don’t know how to do it; they got no clue at all. It’s a short, miserable, bewildered existence—they simply starve or get run-over or summarily eaten.
And yes, that happens to the wild version, too, but at least they have some skills and a sporting chance.

 
Comment by samk
2009-05-04 12:27:55

My B-i_L got each of my kids chick for Easter a few years back. He thought it was hilarious. We kept them nice and warm and fed them whatever Agway was selling as “chick feed”. Just so the kids got the idea we called the chicks “Lunch” and “Dinner”. A few weeks later we took them to a friend who keeps a chicken coop and he was happy to have them. It turned out okay for us and I’m sure those chicks had a happy life before their names were proven accurate.

 
Comment by bluprint
2009-05-04 12:41:06

When my wife was a kid, they would regularly get bunnies for Easter.

After a time, when the bunnies got big, they would be sent to “Uncle Butchie’s” house to “live out their days on the farm.” Later the wife realized her bunnies had indeed been sent to Uncle Butch but not for the stated purpose…

So anyway, what I’m getting at, is that a pretty good business model might be bunny rental, instead of bunny sales. Parents can rent the bunnies for a few months or whatever. Then when they get done they could be sent back to be “taken care of” and become someone’s dinner.

Everybody wins, no? (well, except the bunny, but at least he doesn’t end up dead on the side of the road)

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-05-04 13:29:32

foster bunnies

 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 10:55:25

You can’t even give a horse away in most areas of WA right now. When hay prices skyrocketed, people couldn’t afford to feed them anymore. There are reports of people hauling their horses to the woods and setting them loose. I’ve driven by many a pasture and seen nothing but ribcages on gaunt animals with nothing to feed on. Disgusting.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 11:08:59

I’ve driven by many a pasture and seen nothing but ribcages on gaunt animals with nothing to feed on.

And you grab the nearest phone and call the cops, right, Bear?

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 11:50:19

http://www.equineoutreach.com/

http://www.equinenow.com/oregonrescue.htm

http://www.washingtonthoroughbred.com/IndAddrs/Rescue.htm

There seem to be several possible solutions for unwanted horses. Call one of these, BB!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 13:09:55

Thanks, sleepless—I saved all those sites.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 14:25:46

“And you grab the nearest phone and call the cops, right, Bear?”

Of course I did. I’ve even called about some cows which looked quite unhappy in a nasty mud pen. I took in a poor starved husky who was near death, got her shots, nursed her back to health, and found her an awesome home in Lacy. Some pretty sickening things going on right now in regards to innocent creatures.

PS- Thanks for the links, sleepless.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 17:12:37

Some people have no business raising neither animals nor children.

 
 
 
Comment by TPS_Reports
2009-05-04 14:02:37

You can’t send a horse to the rendering plant in this country anymore. So an undesirable horse is a liability to bury or cremate instead of an asset.

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 09:24:13

“It’s also unlikely that the “Generation X,” born between 1965 and 1976 (or more derisively called “baby busters”), will bid up home prices. They are only 44 million strong, not as wealthy and even more in debt from college loans.”

Yes, I illustrated this the other day with my family and my wife’s family, to which someone replied “what an odd construct.”

It’s not odd. It’s real, and it’s just getting started.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 09:39:27

College loans? One would hope that 33-44 - year - olds would have their college loans paid off already. I’m in that group, and paid mine off 15 years ago.

Gen Y is a different story I’m sure.

Comment by WT Economist
2009-05-04 09:46:53

Gen Y is worse off than Gen X which is worse off than the second half of the baby boom which is worse off than the first half of the baby boom, top executives excepted.

For most folks the peak in earnings was 1973; the peak in spending was 2007. Funny how that happened.

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Comment by Skip
2009-05-04 11:16:12

I know a lot of people on the 20 year student loan repayment plan.

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Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 10:48:52

I remember posting pretty much the same thing 2 years ago. The problem is demographics. Period.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-05-04 06:52:59

This won’t effect Haliburton’s Dubai Corporate headquarters remodel of their boardroom with Thomas Kinkade themed paintings will it? ;-)

That Opie™ …cute little feller. ;-)

“In 2004, U.S.-based multinational corporations paid about $16 billion of U.S. tax while earning about $700 billion offshore, or an effective tax rate of about 2.3 percent, an administration official said. The top marginal tax rate for U.S. companies is 35 percent.”

“Obama’s plan will be “surprising and cause a lot of pain” to U.S. companies, said Pamela Olson, a former top tax policy official in President George W. Bush’s Treasury Department. Many companies structured their international operations over the last decade based on rules such as check-the-box.”

‘Wiped Out’

“Everything they’ve done is going to get wiped out,” Olson said. The Obama Treasury Department could have made most of the changes administratively, she said. By making it a legislative proposal, the new administration can count any revenue that results from the policy change in its budget.”

Obama Wants to End Tax Rules That Save Companies $190 Billion:

By Ryan J. Donmoyer May 4 (Bloomberg)

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 06:58:28

Methinks a lot of corporations that are “U.S.-based” will be so not much longer.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-04 07:14:32

I am sure this has been posted, but…

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.
“Since you are all such good customers”, he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20″. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison. “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 09:02:36

Tax them too much and they just may not show up anymore ??

Yep…Welcome to the decade (or more) of high unemployment, a ever growing government sector a exploding underground economy and economic stagnation…

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Comment by M in Michigan
2009-05-04 12:04:03

They’re *all* jerks. The tenth man is probably the boss, making his fortune off the hard labor of the rest.

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Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-05-04 12:39:08

The difference with the taxes is that the barman has a badge and a gun, and makes the rules as he goes along. If the 10th man does not show up, he will just “make” him show up at 3:00 am to cover his part of the bill, even if he did not partake in the nights activities.

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Comment by Skip
2009-05-04 07:23:51

Where exactly are these companies going to go where they are treated better than in the US?

I have the feeling we will be sending in the troops to rescue Halliburton from the evil Sheiks in a few years.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 07:56:09

That’s what really fries my bacon. They want the benefits of the US war machine to do their bidding, but don’t want to pay for it.

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Comment by measton
2009-05-04 11:10:01

They are more than willing to pay for it, just look at all the campaign contributions.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 11:24:12

I guess it depends on how one defines “pay”. So they make 100 million in political contributions, but have a multi trillion dollar mercenary force at their beckoning. A sweet deal if you ask me.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-05-04 11:24:23

They are more than willing to pay for it, just look at all the campaign contributions.

All the campaign contributions are a pittance compared to the money many companies should be paying in corporate taxes.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-04 12:05:14

“All the campaign contributions are a pittance compared to the money many companies should be paying in corporate taxes.”

All the corporate taxes those companies should be paying is a pittance to what our government (Bush included) is spending.

 
 
 
 
Comment by bluprint
2009-05-04 09:12:40

U.S.-based multinational corporations paid about $16 billion of U.S. tax while earning about $700 billion offshore, or an effective tax rate of about 2.3 percent, an administration official said.

I don’t buy this without some evidence. I suspect that the quoted administration official is using GAAP earnings for the $700 billion number, which is not what corps pay taxes on. The U.S. tax code requires totally seperate methods of calculating earnings to come up with a tax base.

 
Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-05-04 09:21:08

I’d say he’s more like Howdy Doody than Opie. At least Opie had a smart dad guiding him. Who’s pulling this puppets strings?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 16:05:37

Muddy, Opie didn’t listen to his ‘earthly father’. And frankly, it is a horrible thing to compare the real Opie to the jerk we had.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 09:45:57

Did Bloomberg ask the opinion of anyone who’s NOT a Bush crony? (or a Messiah crony?)

I would interested to hear what Ron Paul thinks of this tax proposal.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-04 11:36:01

Al Gore said cap and trade would only cost American consumers thirty cents a day so you can take that to the bank.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 17:23:40

Aug 2008
Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Most U.S. and foreign corporations doing business in the United States avoid paying any federal income taxes, despite trillions of dollars worth of sales, a government study released on Tuesday said.

The Government Accountability Office said 72 percent of all foreign corporations and about 57 percent of U.S. companies doing business in the United States paid no federal income taxes for at least one year between 1998 and 2005.

More than half of foreign companies and about 42 percent of U.S. companies paid no U.S. income taxes for two or more years in that period, the report said.

During that time corporate sales in the United States totaled $2.5 trillion, according to Democratic Sens. Carl Levin of Michigan and Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, who requested the GAO study.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-04 07:00:19

Buffet just said he is going to sell something to get the carry back and recoup $650,000,000 in taxes that they had paid. What happened to his secretary paying more income tax then he did. I know that the six-hundred and fifty million is not income tax to Warren Buffet, but for someone who made such a stand on how unfair the tax system was, he sure knows how to play it.

Comment by shelby
2009-05-04 08:15:35

Didn’t Buffett also say real recently that housing would soon bottom - something about tons of people still immigrating to America & sonn there wouldn’t be enough places for all of them to live??

 
Comment by bluto
2009-05-04 08:53:18

Buffett loves tax increases for the rich because he sells annuities (which are one of the few ways rich people can shield income from taxes). Please stop taking public policy from the nations wealthiest investor who got that way because he’s exceedingly self interested (even if plain spoken).

 
Comment by measton
2009-05-04 09:58:55

It was effective tax rate not total taxes. It was compared to him not BH. If you need help with understanding what an effective tax rate is try wikipedia.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-04 16:48:59

Total tax or tax rate it is easy for Warren Buffet to sit there and say he doesn`t pay enough. But I would bet a doctor making $300,000 a year with a wife, 2 kids and a student loan to support would disagree.

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-05-04 07:19:56

Hey Mr. Bear, wake up from your rip van winkle slumber…Lennar is running ads that say:

“If you snooze…you lose” Buy Today! It’s now or never!;-)

Their Irvine CA promo starts with homes in “low” $1,000,000.00’s ;-)

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-05-04 09:44:43

Count Dracula: “But vaaaait, there’s more!”

from their brochure:
“Vintage triplex homes visually appear as one mansion-like estate” :-)

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-05-04 10:00:54

They start out as ‘vintage’?

 
Comment by oxide
2009-05-04 11:19:50

I remember seeing something like that years ago — a duplex that was designed to look like a single McMansion. Geez loueez, why not just build two modest bungalows? Are we SO craving the pretense of living in a palace?

Oh right, profit…

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-05-04 07:26:33

The next bubble is inflating before our eyes: The equities markets.

Comment by WT Economist
2009-05-04 07:30:09

It does seem that way doesn’t it?

It the stock market just absorbing excess liquidity, or are people betting the stocks will be harmed less than bonds in the Great Inflation caused by that liquidity?

Bonds are certainly awful. Not only do you have the inflation risk vs. fixed return, but in bankruptcy you end up little better off than stockholders, it appears.

I don’t have much in equities, but if this goes no much longer, I’m a seller.

 
Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 07:53:12

Dow was at 11K in 2000. It’s at 8K and change in 2009. I hardly call that a bubble. Even if Dow goes back to 14K next year, that’s a whopping 2% a year gain for the decade. Even going back to 1990 when Dow was 3000, it works out to 8% a year over 20 years. Even during the Great Depression stocks gained about 7% 1933-1938.

I posed this before on this forum….I think the recession is on its last legs and will be over by the end of the year. And equities are reflecting this view.

Comment by WT Economist
2009-05-04 08:02:47

Dividend yields are less than 4%, PEs are still high, and who knows what real earnings are or how much of them are owed to the top executives in deffered compensation?

For stock prices to be fairly valued, one has to assume that the bubble deflation and massive dollar printing will give way to high growth with low inflation.

 
Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 08:04:27

yeap.
And factor future inflation into that and there is no bubble.

 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 08:27:09

It was also in a bubble in 2000 - very much so. The stock market’s been in a bubble since about 1985 actually - it was finally deflating, but now is re-inflating again. See this chart.

The problem is that stock market bubbles recently have been “indirect” bubbles. The value of stocks is supposed to be based on current and anticipated earnings. By that measure they weren’t that overvalued say in 2003, or even right now - if you think that earnings will recover back to previous levels. The problem is - earnings themselves were a bubble, because they were based on inordinate debt growth. The same is true of this recovery of which many speak - there’s an assumption that we’ll get back to “normal” spending levels, but it’s a bad assumption because we are still stuck with a much higher debt load than we were in the past. Spending levels will not return to “normal” until the debt levels are reduced more - like about 3-5 years from now.

In reality even though the chart above shows that the DJI should be somewhere around 4,000 or so, that’s not taking into account the extra debt we have now that we didn’t have in the past - the servicing of which puts downward pressure on earnings. So in reality IMO a correct level of the DJI right now would be about 3,000. Certainly not anything above 8,000 like it is.

That being said - investors care less and less about correct valuations these days. It’s why bubbles are what they are - speculation away from the fundamentals. So heck it could go to 30,000.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 08:28:57

Mean to include this link.

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Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 10:57:51

In 1990 GDP was 6 trillion
In 2008 GDP was 14 trillion

2008 GDO is 2.3 times higher than 1990 GDP

Dow at the end of 2008 was 8000. Dow at the end of 1990 was 3000.

Hey what do you know, 8000 is 2.6 times higher than 3000. It’s almost as if this stuff worked out just as it should or something.

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Comment by packman
2009-05-04 11:24:42

LOL - two can play the numbers game. Go back 8 more years, before the DJI started to take off:

1982 GDP 3.2 trillion, DJI 900 (ratio 1 : 280)
2009 GDP 14 trillion, DJI 8400 (ratio 1 : 600)

And then take a look at the underlying debt:
1982: 160% of GDP
2009: 360% of GDP

Hard to have as much growth when such a big chunk of your revenues goes to service that much debt.

 
Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 11:34:51

Nice cherry picking 1982, which was coincidentally the end of a 15 year bear market.

 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 12:02:34

I do what I can. :)

Seriously - I really think that there’s a good chance that 2022 will end up being the end of another 15-year bear market (so to speak).

The main reason is simply debt. For instance the home equity rate is currently 43% and falling fast - that is by far the lowest it’s been since measurements started in 1945. A sampling:

1945: 84%
1950: 81%
1960: 71%
1970: 67%
1980: 68%
1990: 62%
2000: 59%
2005: 58%
2008: 43% (latest Q4 stat)

So after falling 12% in the 45-year 1960-2005 time period, it then fell 15% in only 3 years. That is *huge*. And it’s similar on the corporate side, as well as the government side.

Obviously that’s due primarily to home price drops. What it indicates though is the huge amount of debt that was built up during the 8-10-year housing bubble, and how all that debt fueled a false economy. That’s that much less spending power that corporations, consumers, and the government will have to provide any kind of recovery. I just don’t see it happening anytime soon.

 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 16:09:44

KJ, I still say, where will the jobs come from?
waiting for the answer to your idea that the recession is on its last legs. We have No industry now, and after the GM/Ford/Chrysler rape of the middle class worker, no other business will ever pay what was once a sort of livable wage/benefit pkg around the US (other biz included aside from car mftg).

Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 16:37:46

That is such a tired and cliched story…no manufacturing jobs, therefore no economy. Something about a giant sucking sound or something. Come on, that’s getting a little old don’t you think? I guess we should bring back the horse and buggy makers too along with the candlestick industry that was wiped out thanks to that bastard Thomas Edison.

GM, Chrysler and Ford deserve to go away. They make an awful product that nobody wants. All 3 should have been put out of their misery long ago.

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Comment by exeter
2009-05-05 05:01:36

Learn to love Detroit.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-05-04 07:45:07

http://tinyurl.com/dh5otn

“U.S. March pending home sales index up 3.2%”

More BS from National Association of Losers.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 08:40:06

Bouncing along the bottom. Of course it’s going to go up slightly occasionally. Talk to us when there’s a meaningful rise - like up to 100 or so. Heck it was in the low 90’s even last summer.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-05-04 09:36:58

Spring time - seasonality is still effect, even in the worst markets.

Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 10:59:20

Except March 09 was higher than March 08 which takes away seasonality issues.

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Comment by stewie
2009-05-04 12:57:45

$8k tax credit for fence sitters likely did it. My guess is the PTB were hoping for more.

 
Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 15:45:02

Or maybe the fact you can buy houses for 50-60% less than 2 years ago had something to do with it? There are places where rent is higher than cost of ownership today and it makes perfectly good sense to buy. The bubble had to burst eventually and it did. The bust has to burst eventually too, so to speak. And in some parts of the country it has.

That’s not to say that everyone should run out and buy 10 houses with 0% down. But if your option is rent for $1000 or pay $900 mortgage with a fixed rate, well it’s not hard to figure out where the attraction is.

 
 
Comment by Observer
2009-05-04 12:54:34

It is more than seasonality there is a genuine bounce this spring. I’ve been looking to buy but the inventory is very low. Nice houses competitively priced are receiving multiple bids, often over the list price. Where I live, if inventory remains low I wouldn’t be surprised to see house prices stabilize this summer in the low to mid range priced homes. I’m hoping that with the foreclosure moratoriums ending, inventory will again climb.

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-04 07:46:58

Fiat has experience with other countries.

The VAZ-2101 is a compact (”small class” in Soviet classification) car, sedan, produced by AvtoVAZ and introduced in 1970. Better known as the Lada outside of its native Russia, it was a localised version of the Fiat 124 tailored for the Soviet and Eastern European market.

Known as the Zhiguli within the Soviet Union, the main differences between the VAZ-2101 and the Fiat 124 are the use of thicker gauge steel for the bodyshell, an overhead camshaft engine (in place of the original Fiat OHV unit), and the use of aluminium drum brakes on the rear wheels in place of disc brakes. Early versions of the car featured a starting handle for cranking the engine manually should the battery go flat in Siberian winter conditions, and an auxiliary fuel pump.

AvtoVAZ were forbidden from selling the car in competing markets alongside Fiat 124; however exports to Western European nations began in 1974 when the 124 was discontinued in favour of Fiat’s newer 131 Mirafiori model. The 2101 was sold in export markets as the Lada 1200 and Lada 1300 until 1983, when it was replaced by the facelifted VAZ-2105 model - badged as Lada Riva in selected European countries.

Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-05-04 08:26:23

A friend had a fiat 124.. Made in Poland!. It was by far the worse POS I have ever been in. It barely stopped, was heavy as hell, the thick gauge metal rusted at the least contact with moisture, it was nearly impossible to keep the thing going straight, and it had a top speed of about 45 MPH….
The only good thing was that the seats where padded in burn me/ freeze me plastic, and where somewhat more tolerable than the option… Public Transportation seating…

Comment by In Colorado
2009-05-04 11:29:56

Anyone see the Top Gear episode on old Soviet cars?

One of the “challenges” was a 1/4 mile drag race vs. an old Ford Cortina and a dog (a border collie IIRC).

The Cortina came in 1st
The dog 2nd.
and the two Soviet cars placed 3rd and 4th, waaaayyyy behind the dog.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-05-04 11:59:04

There’s a Yakoff joke in there somewhere.

“In Soviet Russia, dogs don’t chase cars…”

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Comment by crazy frog
2009-05-04 18:12:47

The irony was that there was 15-20 years (yes, that’s right - YEARS) waiting list for these POS.

I, myself, was a proud owner of LADA 1500S once.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Gman
2009-05-04 07:49:27

No worries mate. Just “reinflate” the California housing bubble by utilizing the latest in a newly available mortgage product from any bank or savings and loan near you — “The California Twister.” **

** “Import” a Japanese-style “three-generation, 100 year mortgage” — but with an added “California twist.” Simply “reengineer it” into a “four-generation, 120 year mortgage” so anyone can continue to pay their monthly mortgage even on outrageously overpriced homes in California (including their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren — let’s keep it all in the family don’t you know. “The family that pays together, stays together” - don’t you think?) For the most highly leveraged and stubborn cases, simply employ the “California Twister-II” which is a “five-generation, 150 year”mortgage.” See, that wasn’t so difficult — now was it?

Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-05-04 09:36:52

My big question is, did Lad get all his paperwork done before this new overseas tax idea? Will it affect him and did he get the flu?

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 08:40:39

My wife is 14 weeks along with number two. If any of you have spouses demanding a house for offspring, have them post and I can talk them down :smile:

Comment by samk
2009-05-04 09:31:16

Congratulations!

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 09:53:20

“Congratulations!”

Let’s hold off and make sure it looks like me first.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 10:27:55

Ummm, congratulations, I think.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 10:53:50

Your wife doesn’t read this blog, so much is clear.

But yes, a hearty congratulations! And I hope this one is as adorable as the first mini-muggy. AND as naughty, lively, and mischievous*—because that’ll teach you, Mr. Man, to not talk smack about your lovely and worthy wife. :)

*I can tell just by looking at the few photos you’ve posted. It’s obvious.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 11:37:55

LOL, reminds me of that scene from Me, Myself, and Irene where his newborn doesn’t exactly match his, er, complexion.

Congrats!

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Comment by WT Economist
2009-05-04 09:52:41

There are very few places where such houses cannot now be had — for rent.

Which reminds me of something. I live in a place where owning a car is optional. Transit is accessible, there is plenty in walking and biking distance, taxi rides can handle other trips and car rentals those farther away.

Without the owned car, the marginal and total costs of transportation are one and the same, and some trips seem not worth it. With the owned car, the marginal cost is low, so you take more car trips that aren’t really worth it.

Same with space. Those who buy a house don’t ask if the extra space is worth it, because it doesn’t occur to them that they are paying for it. They are paying for a house. But the same people might think twice about renting 2,000 square feet vs. 1,000 square feet at double the cost. Is it really worth it? From a long term perspective, the question is the same owned or rented.

 
Comment by Leighsong
2009-05-04 10:55:49

Congrats Muggy!!

Leigh

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 13:04:04

Leighsong,

Do you keep in touch with hoz?

 
 
Comment by Steve W
2009-05-04 11:00:13

Congrats! From experience: having one child is like having one child. having 2 is like having 4.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 14:06:11

Congrats Muggy!

My wife wanted to buy in 2007ish, but I freaked out, and then made an agreement with her that if she would be fine renting for awhile, I’d be okay if we started looking again in 2009. I figured by then it’d be obvious it’s not time to buy a house.

Unfortunately, where we want to buy hasn’t cratered hard enough for me to be comfortable buying, and my agreement time “is up.”

Fortunately, she’s agreed that I get to pick the ‘lowball’ prices we offer.

So far, 2 offers, no acceptances, and she’s okay with us ‘losing’ the houses. (One was only 20% off, the other was about 70% off an REO that I was basically offering to buy the land because the house was less than worthless.)

 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2009-05-04 09:27:40

Initial post that will be used to test j’s new formatting and quoting features in his Firefox plugin for this blog.

Comment by Carl Morris
2009-05-04 12:30:46

Guess my giant large post with lots of different formatting experience won’t be coming through, I’ll have to settle for this.

Giant formatted post substitute.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-05-04 09:37:56

Amex must of found a whole bunch of new people with jobs to sign up for their $75.00 per year green card! From $9.71…to…$25.50 ;-)

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 09:53:12

“Not a single metro area in the nation was seen to be exiting the recession.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30216797/

“towns that put all their eggs in one basket, ie: recreation vehicles- Elkhart Indiana”

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-05-04 10:23:42

From behind “The Orange Curtain”: ;-)

Hey Crissy Cox, take some of that “hard earned” SEC salary money $$$$ and drive your Hummer over asap, redeem that free $50.00 gift card! ;-)

Another Fascist Island store to close:
April 23rd, 2009 O.C. Register…posted by Hang Nguyen, retail reporter:

The Chip & Pepper store at Fascist Island in Newport Beach plans to close this Sunday, said Carol McNairy, director of retail for Chip & Pepper.

“Everything at the O.C. store is marked off by 75 percent. The closure will leave only one brick-and-mortar Chip & Pepper store in New York, she said.”

“In 2003, they began their fashion renaissance in America by launching a high-end denim line that has become a cult favorite among celebrities and hipsters.

The line’s rapid popularity has expanded to include maternity, kids, knitwear, hats, leathergoods and sportswear. The brand also includes Chip & Pepper University, a knit line incorporating vintage and original logos from more than 75 universities around the nation.”

Fascist Island to give $50 gift card with purchase:

Customers who purchase $250 or more on Thursday, May 7 from 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. in any store or restaurant at Fascist Island in Newport Beach can redeem their receipts to receive a $50 gift card to the center.

Customers can redeem same-day receipts at the guest services desk in Atrium Court. There is a limit of one gift card per customer, while supplies last. Fascist Island gift card purchases are not eligible.

For more info, call the Fascist Island concierge at (949) 721-2000.

Fascist Island is owned by Irvine Company, which also offered a gift-card promotion last month at The Market Place, another shopping center it owns.

Comment by llcarlos
2009-05-04 14:40:26

I hate Chip and Pepper. Couple fruits who live off their inheritance and stupid people in California.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 10:45:52

This market is un-freaking-believable. I have been officially humbled as a short, and need to get out. I really didn’t think this rally would last this long and be this strong, and have been squozen to the breaking point.

(shakes head)

Sad thing is I know for sure that now the market will tank the coming weeks.

Comment by clue
2009-05-04 11:02:05

squozen..

thats funny right there.

Comment by packman
2009-05-04 12:08:40

I hold to the Jimmy Buffet maxim - if we weren’t all crazy we’d go insane.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 13:15:40

squozen..

I like it, too.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 16:19:29

squozen is such a good word.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-05-04 11:58:08

Feeling pretty “squozen” here too. This thing has gone on much longer than I had anticipated that it would.

Of course, I always knew that the market could remain irrational longer than I could remain solvent.

Oh well, easy come…

 
Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 12:19:23

sorry packman,

I’ve made a killing.

And that was from learning from all you guys (you PB FPSS combo Market SF tx….)

The fundamentals which everyone was pointing to was meaningless after mid March.
That, I learned here from listening to the above people throughout the last 2-3 years.
QE and the FED, backdoor channeling via AIG to banks….

Nothing in this economy is fixed, we know that, but what is happening was a probable outcome and I got berated when I predicted it.

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-04 13:57:03

I’m really glad I sat this out. I was going to play with my house money, but figured I’d get hosed.

*stuffs bills back under mattress*

 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 14:03:21

Well - like you I do believe QE will serve to pump up the markets, but I didn’t (don’t still) think it would hit the markets this quickly. The banks still have tons of writedowns they haven’t done yet for sure, and they haven’t ratcheted up lending any yet. I still believe this rally is a dead-cat bounce, and we have yet another big bottom to come - probably this fall; for whatever reason that always seems to happen, even though psychology would dictate otherwise (people should expect a fall downturn, and get out of the markets in the summer; causing a summer downturn which next year would cause a spring downturn etc.).

We haven’t yet seen any significant recovery in any fundamentals. All the “green shoots” have been either lip service (”rate of decline is slowing”) or bouncing along the inevitable bottom (housing starts/sales/etc.). Perhaps it is indeed a lack of horrible news that’s causing this rally, and maybe combined with an Obama optimism (don’t underestimate that as a factor). It may have more legs to it, though I doubt it since I just covered :).

Anyhow, at least my commodities stuff is doing well.

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-05-04 14:35:03

Commodities will continue to do well as long as this global housing boom holds up….as long as this manufacturing boom holds up….as long as the price of oil keeps heading to the moon….as long as Americans keep financing more and more toys with newfound MEW wealth….

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Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 14:44:00

Well done on your commodities.
Actually, that is all I own. (and materials)

I simplified my life and sold DBA and DBC
Holding GSG

My only two other holdings are XLB and IYM.

Will add XES

It’s a pure inflation play, period.

__

It’s like I posted above as a reply to the Dow being inflated.
What if DOW goes to 15,000 and THEN inflation catches up to it so that, inflation-adjusted, it is the same as 1967?

If GSG goes down, I’m ok, it’s deflationary.
What did I actually lose?
Wouldn’t then that cash buy the same basket of goods?

To me, this is so clear that I do not see why others don’t see it.

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Comment by WT Economist
2009-05-04 13:11:11

The market is acting like it has smoked the green shoots.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 13:22:48

Hey don’t forget to pass the doobie bro. :razz:

Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 16:23:31

Speaking of doobie bro..the Doobie Bros are going to be here this month…ahhh rock concert mid 70s memories.. (sucking in air just to reminisce)….Oh and the Allman Bros together.
Knowing that those 2 groups might bring back memories, if we had any left over?!?!?!?!

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Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 13:23:43

It’s all Monopoly money.
Congrats to UYG longs, by the way.

Comment by vozworth
2009-05-04 17:38:00

Who in there right mind would be long UYG at this point?

The banks are all insolvent, America is falling into an abyss..

Its Armogedoning tomorrow right, RIGHT?

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Comment by Muir
2009-05-04 18:22:50

It’s been Winstonized for your pleasure.
:-)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-04 21:56:55

Yeah - I getch’ya. I’ve got a reverse hedge I’m hanging on that i believe will move my way. Scary that I almost made an unprotected move two weeks ago and I’m so far off. When to cut the hedge loose? At this point no idea. Financials are going down…when? CRAZY

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 10:57:08

KJ wrote:
” posed this before on this forum….I think the recession is on its last legs and will be over by the end of the year. And equities are reflecting this view.”

Wait a second.

We buy from China, they loan us the money back, we buy more from them, they loan us the money back… repeat.

The boom was created by rising housing prices that allowed consumers to borrow almost $1T a year against their houses. The flood of cheap debt also allowed companies to borrow, borrow borrow.

From 1993-2008, household income up 50% and per-household debt up 180%. Business debt up 270%.

We had about $7.5T debt (consumer and business) in 1993. Adjusting for 50% inflation and 20% population gain, we could add another $6T in debt to maintain the same debt/income ratio. We actually added $17.5T in debt. Almost tripple the rate of inflation and population growth.

The government has stepped up as the debtor of choice and is adding $1.5-$2 T in debt a year to cover for the consumers and businesses that are maxxed out and unable to take on more debt.

But, how long can that last?

Are we magically going to return to the time of people spending 110% of their income, increasing their total debt outstanding at a rate of 3x thier income increase? What are they going to use as collateral? After trillions in losses, are there really going to be lenders stepping up to loan these people even more money that they can’t pay back?

We’ve dumped trillions at the banks to help cover their losses from MBS, but what about the insurance companies, the pension funds, the bond funds???

How long before the hedge funds that have locked the doors, are forced to open the doors again and resume liquidating to cover all the redemption requests???

This is the eye of the storm between the initial losses when the government still had some power to slow the collapse, and the echo effects that will follow.

Comment by Mo Money
2009-05-04 11:21:37

Rule 1: Don’t fight the tape

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 13:18:27

This ralley is all the billionaires that have been handed hundreds of billions. The volume is very low. Retail investors are not taking part.

As soon as the mega-rich are again forced to admit losses… like the coming storm of bankruptcies and hedge fund redemptions… the mass selling will return.

I’m short, and about 15% underwater over the last month. But I am not afraid.

I’m just as convinced this rally will end and we will plunge to new lows, as I was convinced teh housing bubble would end, that sub-prime was not contained, that the debt bust would spill over to consumer spending, etc.

We have not begun to address the underlying problems with this economy… too much debt.

They are trying to end the recession the way they ended prior recessions…. showering the economy in debt.

It won’t work because everyone (the collective everyone, not literally “every one”) already has too much debt.

Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-04 22:15:39

Darrell,

Thanks for your post…my belief as well. I wish I had the “nads” to put in more substantial resources in the short positions my research has revealed. Oh well, I’m not a gambler and I hate the stocks.

I’ll continue to dabble my toes, make a little here and there and watch as my cash position gets trounced by inflation.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 11:34:43

I’m also anxiously awaiting the remaining resets on the horizon. I’m curious if any info exists to suggest what % of those borrowers were able to refi into something less explosive.

There does, however, seem to be a lack of the lack of confidence that we recently experienced, even from many on this board.

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 14:20:28

“lack of lack of confidence”

Not from me. I think that we have not addressed ANY of the fundamental problems. We’ve applied a bandaid to the gunshot wound, and it appears the bleeding has stopped, but really, it is just hidden from view for awhile. The internal bleeding continues unabated.

House prices are still falling, access to debt is still tightening, consumer spending is falling, unemployment is still skyrocketing…

State and local governments are running out of tricks to avoid layoffs.

The coming insolvancy of Social Security marches closer every passing day. The need to address the mass deficits grows on the horizon.

 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 14:32:21

Many HBBers are shaken by their underestimation of the insanity of the general public.

That being said - in reality I think that 90% of people just don’t look too deeply. Here’s their view:
- Yeah the housing market got too high. But look at how far prices have fallen. They appear to be near normal now.
- Yeah there’s rising unemployment, but most of that is due to the housing bubble popping - now that the bubble’s popped we can get back to normal.
- Yeah the stock market got too high - but look at it now! It’s back down to mid-90’s levels - a bargain!
- Yeah there’s lots of foreclosures, but that’s offset by all those people that have been waiting on the sidelines these last 2 years. It was only subprime anyhow.
- Yeah there are some resets left- but big deal interest rates are incredibly low so they’ll still have a low payment.

They don’t look at the actual numbers of how in-debt we still are; how home prices are still historically high; how a new wave of foreclosures is happening due to lifting of moratoriums; etc.

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 15:59:00

How can they not get it?

They used to get 3 offers a day to borrow money at 3% or less. Now they are getting notices from their credit card companies that rates are increasing and new fees are being added.

They used to see “now hiring” signs all over town. Now we have 15K applications for 500 part-time minimum wage jobs.

They used to have $100K HELOC available on their house. Now that HELOC has been revoked.

They used to get annual pay increases. Now they are getting furloughs.

I think all this new “optimism” is PURELY based on stock market prices. The mega rich, like Goldman Sachs, got $100s of billions and are using that money to manipulate the market up.

People see stocks rising and suddenly believe the lie that things are getting better.

Well, reality will soon return. Bankruptcies, hedge fund liquidations, falling profits, layoffs, falling consumer spending, etc. etc. etc. will return. Eventually banks will have to admit deeper losses. Commercial real estate. Credit card losses. Other consumer loans. GM will go bankrupt and take out a long line of suppliers. Local governments will be forced into massive spending cuts, and/or bankruptcy.

Reality will return.

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Comment by Renfield
2009-05-04 16:47:31

“Well, reality will soon return. Bankruptcies, hedge fund liquidations, falling profits, layoffs, falling consumer spending, etc. etc. etc. will return.”

Darrell:

Speaking as a former ’sheeple’, I agree. Thankfully I quit being one of the herd after moving countries some years back and thinking that houseprices were freakin insane. Nothing changes your mind like the seeing same idiocy in a completely different setting. Ruins the perception that prices in one place are high because of real ‘value’.

The sheeple here in Sydney are yawning, stretching, rubbing their eyes. Not fully awake though. Still watch the stock market altho few of them actually *trade* (in which case, why they are *still* in the market is beyond me.) All Ords is having its little ‘echo’ run-up too, as it always follows the mighty DJIA like lambs to the slaughter, and the even the solicitors where I work are not dumb enough to believe it’s real. But many of them STILL have not sold their financials - keep in mind they don’t trade, just ‘buy&hold’ forever - waiting for the magic economy ‘turnaround’ point. They reckon they can hold for another year and be in the flush again. Or they just don’t think about it. (The ones I’ve spoken to, that is.) The optimism here is almost entirely in the government and the media, not on the ground.

Unemployment is starting to *bite* here and the economy’s fall is starting to pick up steam. I have a bet on with my boss that by April next year we will have a new Global Reserve Currency (at least one, maybe three), and people here are trying to pay off debt as fast as they can. NOBODY here at work is buying houses, lots selling them, though. The Government is complicit is sending first-time buyers to their ruin…a lot of the talk today is anxiety about keeping jobs.

The Ozzie character is naturally optimistic, but I think unemployment will be the bucket of cold water that wakes up the sheeple at large, in many western countries…and will make the stock market seem increasingly irrelevant to most. Then their optimism will be based on *personal* circumstances, paid-off debt and savings, rather than being fed fairy tales about the markets.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Observer
2009-05-04 12:23:13

I don’t think the stock rally is about the return to boom times, its rallying because the world isn’t heading to Armageddon. Soon the market will have to consider that we aren’t going back to 2005 and the upward movement will stop.

 
 
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 10:58:30

I just saw a new poll that puts the GOP approval rating in the 20’s. That is a shockingly low rating, even for the GOP. What it shows is that most of the country believe the GOP is mainly responsible for the problems we face today, and that is an accurate view. Sure, you can point to bad decisions or actions here or there by Democrats, but the truth is the GOP owned deregulation for so long, that no amount of propaganda can overcome it.

As I said a while back, once the train came off the tracks the GOP was going right back into the same wilderness it was in for 60 years after they were blamed for the first Great Depression. Some have called the GOP a cult, and I think there is some truth to that. You would think that after your policies crashed an entire planet you might reconsider your position on things like regulation, but nope. Not this crowd.

Back to the wilderness you go. I just hope the Dems don’t screw things up too badly, not that they can ever compete with the GOP in this department.

Should be an interesting 30 years of one party rule. God help us all.

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 14:27:04

The GoP is trapped between demands to cut taxes and demands to not cut the big budget sacred cow budget items (Social Security, Medicare/caid, DoD, VA, and interest on the debt) that consume 80% of the federal budget.

Their only solution to this trap is mass deficits.

We’re seeing the exact same thing on the state level here in AZ. $3 billion deficit, with $1 billion of that covered by Evil Obama’s $700 billion stimulus (the plan is pure pork, according to GoP, but GoP leaders of this state are more than happy to take their $1 billion share of the pork).

The Republican governor has suggested $1 billion in cuts and $1 billion in tax increase to plug the $2 billion deficit (ignore the $300 million new projections since the last official projection).

The Republicans in the legislature are scewering the governor for suggesting tax increases. Their plan is $1 billion in cuts and just ignore $1.3 billion of the deficit. Who cares that our state constitution has a balanced budget clause.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-05-04 14:49:11

Actually, I think you underestimate the shortness of the human attention span. Which president do most people associate the GD with, Hoover or Wilson? Who saved the world, Hoover or Roosevelt?

Our President Obama is Hoover.

It was GOP genius to run a dolting old man and a dolting young floozy 2nd against the Dems in the long game. OK, scratch the word genius.

What are the stats on the Obama’s approval ratings over the first 100 days? Is he gaining or loosing? Personally, I see him loosing way.

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 15:36:12

If you look at presidential polls starting in the 40s upto today, you find that Coolidge was ranked as the far worse president over Hoover… up until the 90s, a full 60 years after the crash.

I think Bush will be considered the worse president, at least until those of us old enough to have lived this boom/bust cycle are in our graves.

It took close to 20 years for Ike to get a Republican back into the White House.

I think Obama is the Roosevelt in your comparison.

Comment by KJ
2009-05-04 16:31:41

I saw that poll too. I also checked the internals.

Here’s what I found:

Of the supposed “random sample of people”, 43% voted for Obama, 32% voted for McCain. The election results in Nov. had Obama winning by 5%, 52/47. Yet somehow this “random sample” has Obama winning by 11%.

And gee what do you know, this same group of people gave Obama a huge thumbs up and Republicans a big thumbs down. Shocking, I tell you, absolutely shocking!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 17:53:35

Do you think it could be people too embarrassed to admit they voted for McCain? After all, with Obama’s approval around 60% I would think a lot of people that voted for McCain aren’t being too honest about that right now.

I’ll bet if you asked 1000 people how they voted in 2000 and 2004 you might find that only 20% voted for chimp in either election.

It’s called lying to save face. I’ll bet a lot of people are too embarrassed to admit their mistake.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-05-04 12:57:26

Hoenig for President!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/46e2f784-380b-11de-9211-00144feabdc0.html

He is the only President of a Federal Reserve Bank that is talking sense, IMHO. His recent speeches read like a break with the status quo.

—————
I believe there is an alternative method for addressing this crisis that deals more effectively with the issues we currently face while also considering the long-run consequences of those actions: the implementation of a systematic plan to resolve large, problem financial institutions.

In recent weeks, I have outlined such a resolution framework for dealing with these large, systemically important institutions. Boiled down to its simplest elements, the plan would require those firms seeking government assistance to make the taxpayer senior to all shareholders, with the government determining the circumstances for managers and directors. These firms would be operated by outside individuals with no conflicts involving either the firm or its competitors.

Non-viable institutions would be allowed to fail and be placed into a negotiated conservatorship or a bridge institution, with the bad assets liquidated while the remainder of the firm is operated under new management and re-privatised as soon as is feasible. This plan is similar to what was done in Sweden in the 1990s and in the US with the failure of Continental Illinois in the 1980s.

Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 14:02:53

The problem with making the government senior in line for repayment is that the banks need more money than the government has to give. We are downgrading our position in hopes others will come in and give the bank money at a more senior position above the government.

If the government is #1, then no one else will come in, and they won’t be able to raise the money they need to survive.

We’re still dealing with the Catch-22 of the original TARP and the “good bank/bad bank” proposal that went no where. The losses are going to be in the multi-trillions…. Maybe $4T in assets they want to dump in the first round. To cover this, the government had $700B.

So, they couldn’t use TARP for its stated purpose of buying bad asets. Too many bad assets and not enough money.

The same problem killed the “bad bank” propsal. They had about $350B left and the banks wanted to sell $4T in assets in the initial round.

The PPIP was a “creative” way to try to leverage up $100B to $1T using some private funds and transferring a lot of risk to FDIC. Unfortunatly (or fortuantly) no proviate money has stepped into the path of that out of control semi.

So, we’re back to downgrading our positions in HOPES private money will step up and buy into these insolvant companies.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-05-04 16:29:20

“Non-viable institutions would be allowed to fail and be placed into a negotiated conservatorship or a bridge institution, with the bad assets liquidated while the remainder of the firm is operated under new management and re-privatised as soon as is feasible.”

That was the part that really resonated with me.

“The problem with making the government senior in line for repayment is that the banks need more money than the government has to give. We are downgrading our position in hopes others will come in and give the bank money at a more senior position above the government.”

I agree that that is the problem; the solution being used today sucks.

But the conservatorship & the re-privatisation approach addresses it. Govt coming in senior to all others implies to me that the previous shareholders get wiped out in the liquidation, and that the previous bondholders get a big haircut and/or equity in the re-privatized company. Taxpayers will still take a beating, but once the pieces are sold off, taxpayers will get something back. And once the company is cleaned up and re-privatized, private equity can again come in safely without worrying about being subordinate to the gov’t position.

The way they’ve been going about it up to this point does not have any of those advantages.

 
 
Comment by Renfield
2009-05-04 16:57:54

Hi Prime:

I’ve heard tell (link to follow in next post) that Hoenig is a revisionist who is scrambling to catch up having only recently figured out which way the wind is blowing. (Link from Karl Denninger’s blog to follow.)

He might be the first of ‘wolves-in-sheep’s-clothing’ who are singing from a different hymnbook rather than getting kicked out of church.

 
Comment by Renfield
2009-05-04 16:59:53

Linkery linkety link:
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/2009/04/21.html

Be careful who you elect as President. :-)

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-05-04 13:49:00

Souter Retiring: Ayers, Wright Downplay Rumors
by Scott Ott

(2009-05-01) — As speculation runs rampant about who President Barack Obama will pick to replace retiring Supreme Court Justice David Souter, two long-time associates of the president have downplayed rumors that their names might be on the president’s short list.

William Ayers, a Chicago educator and Jeremiah Wright, Mr. Obama’s former pastor, each denied they had been in recent contact with the White House.

“While I have been a vocal advocate of justice for years,” said Rev. Wright, “I’m enjoying my retirement, traveling around, and spreading the good news of God’s condemnation of America. I’m certainly qualified for the high court, and I already have the wardrobe, but these rumors are premature.”

Meanwhile, Mr. Ayers, who exploded onto the national scene in the 1960s and 70s, and has intimate knowledge of the legal system, said he’s “too busy preparing youth to live in the new America to mull a court appointment at this time.”

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said it’s unlikely that the president would appoint either Mr. Ayers or Rev. Wright, “since he knows many other similarly-qualified candidates with less name recognition.”

Comment by bananarepublic
2009-05-04 17:55:12

I really hope they pick someone far left. We need it for balance.

 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-05-05 00:10:39

Nice reporting, Onion!

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 14:28:17

My wife got her merit increase today… well, goes into effect July 1….

2%.

Hey, that is 2% better than I’m getting!

Comment by ecofeco
2009-05-04 20:07:19

Yep and only what, 10% below real inflation?

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-05-04 15:22:04

A larger share of banks have made it more difficult for people to obtain home mortgages over the past three months even as demand has grown, the Federal Reserve reported Monday.

The Fed’s new quarterly survey found that about 50 percent of U.S. banks tightened their lending standards on prime mortgages, up from about 45 percent in the survey issued in early February.

Meanwhile, 65 percent of banks said they tightened standards on nontraditional mortgages, such as adjustable-rate loans with multiple payment options. That was up from 50 percent in the previous survey.

Demand for nearly all types of consumer and business loans continued to weaken over the past three months, with one exception. Demand for prime mortgages registered its first increase since the Fed began to track those loans separately in April 2007.

Wages down, job insecurity up, borrowing down
Oil consumption down,

Comment by Renfield
2009-05-04 16:50:13

“Demand for prime mortgages registered its first increase since the Fed began to track those loans separately in April 2007.”

What do you make of this? I have no idea at all what context to put that in…if more credit-worthy (’prime’?) people are asking for mortgages, is this b/c they perceive that inflation is on the way and they should lock in interest rates now, or are they just looking for somewhere, anywhere to park funds?

Comment by measton
2009-05-04 18:58:47

I’m sure a lot of people are demanding new loans, let’s see how many get them.

 
Comment by packman
2009-05-04 19:20:42

The big question is - what percentage are new loans vs. refi’s.

Then the follow-up question is - how does the “increase” compare with historical norms? If it’s anything like the “increase” in pending home sales, the increase is meaningless since the value goes from being 30% of normal to 32% of normal or so. Big deal.

 
 
 
Comment by Renfield
2009-05-04 16:24:44

A lot of progress for the Depression this morning, I see. Let it never be said that Oz is left out of a trend. (Ben, I appreciate that this is an American blog, but thank you for your forbearance on our ‘international’ housing/economic articles too - yours is simply the widest forum I know to demonstrate that this is a *global* phenomenon.)

Once again the Sydney Morning Spin is the bearer of bad news, albeit with the requisite sunny pro-homedebtor prognosis at the end. In other news, the head cheerleader shows up a school wearing a punk mohawk…

Sydney Morning Herald
House prices fall at fastest rate for 25 years
Jessica Irvine Economics Writer
May 5, 2009

HOUSE prices are falling at their fastest pace in at least a quarter of a century and there are just half the number of job advertisements as a year ago. But a Reserve Bank board meeting in Sydney today is expected to conclude that another interest rate cut is not needed.

A survey of detached house prices by the Bureau of Statistics released yesterday found prices fell 6.7 per cent across Australia’s eight capital cities over the year ended March - the biggest fall in the survey’s 23-year history.

Sydney suffered the second largest annual price fall of 7.3 per cent, second only to Perth, where the abrupt end of the commodities boom dragged house values down 10.1 per cent.

The bureau’s results jar with two other private sector surveys which had suggested house prices began to plateau earlier this year, supported by the boosted incentives for first-home buyers. By contrast, the bureau’s survey suggested house prices sank another 2.2 per cent in the first three months of this year.

It is possible that because the bureau’s survey does not include semi-detached homes and apartments, only detached homes, it does not fully capture this first-home buyer effect.

An economist at Commonwealth Bank, James McIntyre, said house prices were likely to remain under pressure this year. “Whilst improved affordability should lead to higher prices over time, in the near-term rising unemployment and battle-scarred household wealth levels weigh on the housing market, particularly at the upper end, which is unlikely to benefit from improved sentiment amongst first-home buyers.”

Meanwhile, the task confronting Australia’s half a million job seekers gets harder by the day.

The number of job advertisements appearing each week in newspapers and on the internet fell for a 12th consecutive month to 136,770 in April, down from 273,125 at the same time last year.

ANZ’s head of Australian economics, Warren Hogan, predicted the jobless rate would climb above 8 per cent next year.

However, most economists expect the Reserve Bank will keep rates on hold when it announces its decision at 2.30pm today amid tentative signs that the pace of decline in the global economy is slowing.

Manufacturing activity in China has begun to expand again, while surveys of US consumer confidence suggest a more cheery mood has begun to prevail. The US sharemarket has regained almost a third of its losses.

Back at home, mortgage rates have already fallen to their lowest since the 1960s, bringing the total monthly saving for a family with a $400,000 variable mortgage to more than $1000 since last August.

In more good news for consumers, it appears price inflation is abating. A survey by TD Securities and the Melbourne Institute found overall prices did not rise last month. Rents fell for a second consecutive month, to be down 3 per cent. “It is clear that there has been a migration out of rental accommodation and into home ownership, especially for first-home buyers,” the senior strategist at TD Securities, Annette Beacher, said.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:33:01

The stock market always goes up. Buy stocks now, or get priced out forever.

Wall Street Journal

* TODAY’S MARKETS
* MAY 5, 2009

Rally Sends U.S. Stocks Into Black for the Year

By E.S. BROWNING

Hope spread among investors Monday as they drove stocks higher, sending the broad Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index into the black for the year so far.

Instead of selling stocks on expectations that some banks will be ordered to raise capital as a result of government stress tests, investors bought stocks, notably bank stocks, on optimism that the economy is nearing a low and preparing to turn up.

The S&P 500 surged 29.72 points, or 3.39%, to 907.24, its biggest point and percentage gain since April 9. Back on March 9, the S&P 500 and other major indexes were at 12-year lows. The S&P 500 has jumped 34% since then, and has poked its nose back into positive territory for the year, up 0.44%.

Stocks still are far from their levels of 19 months ago; the S&P 500 is down 42% from its record close of 1565.15 on Oct. 9, 2007. Many investors remain skeptical, and warn that markets have risen so rapidly that they are overdue for a pullback this summer.

But so many had pulled back from stocks that even a small uptick in investor sentiment — leading to a shift of a tiny amount of the hundreds of billions of dollars that investors have on the sidelines — has been enough to drive a powerful rally.

“Nobody at this time can predict whether the bottom is in,” said Jeff Montgomery, chief executive of Al Frank Asset Management in Laguna Beach, Calif. “But we have seen an emotional shift both from individual investors who do business with us and from financial advisers. Their mind-set is a combination of relief and optimism.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:39:36

To play the devil’s advocate, why can’t the government just subsidize the banks until the economy turns around later this year? In fact, I think it has already turned around — just look at the greens shoots on Wall Street sprouting up like weeds.

Wall Street Journal

* OPINION
* MAY 5, 2009

We Can’t Subsidize the Banks Forever
Government has to show it can handle major insolvencies.

By MATTHEW RICHARDSON and NOURIEL ROUBINI

The results of the government’s stress tests on banks, to be released in a few days, will not mark the beginning of the end of the financial crisis. If we are to believe the leaks, the results will show that there might be a few problems at some of the regional banks and Citigroup and Bank of America may need some more capital if things get worse. But the overall message is that the sector is in pretty good shape.
[Commentary] Chad Crowe

This would be good news if it were credible. But the International Monetary Fund has just released a study of estimated losses on U.S. loans and securities. It was very bleak — $2.7 trillion, double the estimated losses of six months ago. Our estimates at RGE Monitor are even higher, at $3.6 trillion, implying that the financial system is currently near insolvency in the aggregate. With the U.S. banks and broker-dealers accounting for more than half these losses there is a huge disconnect between these estimated losses and the regulators’ conclusions.

The hope was that the stress tests would be the start of a process that would lead to a cleansing of the financial system. But using a market-based scenario in the stress tests would have given worse results than the adverse scenario chosen by the regulators. For example, the first quarter’s unemployment rate of 8.1% is higher than the regulators’ “worst case” scenario of 7.9% for this same period. At the rate of job losses in the U.S. today, we will surpass a 10.3% unemployment rate this year — the stress test’s worst possible scenario for 2010.

The stress tests’ conclusions are too optimistic about the banks’ absolute health, although their relative assessment is more precise, because consistent valuation methods were used. Still, with Thursday’s announcement of the results, it shouldn’t be a surprise when the usual suspects emerge. We fear that we are back to bailout purgatory, for lack of a better term. Here are some suggestions for how to extricate ourselves.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:43:28

Wall Street Journal

* MAY 5, 2009

Encouraging Signs Seen in Housing, Construction

By KELLY EVANS

Increases in housing-market activity and construction spending were the latest signs of a brighter outlook for the U.S. economy.

Pending sales of existing homes rose in March for the second-straight month, the National Association of Realtors said Monday. It marked the first back-to-back gains in that index in nearly a year, and the latest hopeful sign for the beleaguered housing market. Pending sales serve as a leading gauge, as they are based on contracts signed but not yet closed, a process that typically takes a month or two.

Activity was strongest in the South and West in March, the Realtors’ group said, as the index overall increased 3.2 points from February to a level of 84.6. Sales of new and existing homes have fallen sharply in the past year, but have shown signs of life in recent months as falling prices and low mortgage rates help to make homes more affordable.

Meanwhile, the Commerce Department said Monday that spending on construction projects rose in March by 0.3% to $969 billion, the first gain in six months. Spending was down on residential construction but strong for nonresidential projects, particularly power plants and government structures, possibly reflecting a jump-start from the onset of the government’s distribution of $787 billion of stimulus funds.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:44:51

If the Fed ends up getting audited, is there any chance stock market manipulation activities will be brought to see the light of day?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:47:39

I lived a couple of years of my childhood in Gadsen…

Gadsen Times
We need some accountability

Published: Monday, May 4, 2009 at 9:08 p.m.
Last Modified: Monday, May 4, 2009 at 9:08 p.m.

Since its creation in 1913, the Federal Reserve has operated behind a black curtain of secrecy and impunity. The unconstitutional fourth branch of federal government is perhaps the most powerful agency in the nation as it commands our entire financial system by manipulating interest rates and inflating our dollar.

One would reasonably assume that such an agency would be held to the highest standard of transparency and accountability. Not so.

The unelected central bank releases details of its activity on its own time-table, if at all. The Feds’ disastrous monopoly over the money supply and credit in our country has led us once again to an economic crisis that could have easily been prevented.

Our government’s response to the crisis- corporate bailouts, reckless “stimulus” packages and the like- has failed miserably, and they still refuse to tell us exactly what they have done with our money.

With our national debt in the trillions and the never-ending talk of more spending packages, there has never been a more urgent time to demand accountability from those who are in power.Ê

Congressman Ron Paul has introduced a bill in the House of Representatives that would finally bring some accountability to the Fed and shed some light on its activities. H.R. 1207, the Audit the Fed bill will call for a full audit of the Federal Reserve. Passage of this bill will be the first step in the long road of bringing fiscal sanity to Washington, D.C. I urge you to contact your representative and demand they put their support behind this bill.

Sam Watts
Rainbow City

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:50:07

Federal Reserve Bank cause of current and past economic woe

Published Friday, May 1, 2009

Dear editor,

Regarding our current financial crisis, it does absolutely no good to attack President Obama. He’s only been president for 100 days. It can be argued that he’s not doing what it takes to reverse the negative financial trend, but the argument that he is somehow singularly to blame for our plight is so peripheral as to be practically irrelevant. The truth is that every president since Woodrow Wilson is responsible for this crisis. The reason? None of them were brave enough to attack the Federal Reserve Bank. Putting pressure on Obama to end the Federal Reserve Bank, or FED, would be far more productive than attacking him.

Let’s examine the Federal Reserve System. For starters, the Federal Reserve Bank is not truly federal; it is governed by a privately owned banking system. Since its inception, the Federal Reserve has operated without sufficient transparency or accountability to the American people. In fact, current law specifically excludes the Fed from audit or real congressional oversight. No government agency has such an utter lack of sunshine.

The Federal Reserve has created and dispersed trillions of dollars in response to our current financial crisis. Americans across the nation, regardless of their opinion of the TARP program, want to know where that money has gone and exactly how much has been spent.

It’s interesting to note that our country has had similar banking cartels before. In the early 1800s, President Andrew Jackson destroyed the 2nd attempt at such a bank. Jackson declared war on the “National” bank, telling them, “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out!”

Our country is in dire economic straights. This is becoming more and more apparent to the point of being completely undeniable. Three years ago, when economists and politicians, such as Dr. Ron Paul, predicted a stock market and monetary dive if intervention by the Federal Reserve System was not limited, many people ignored them. They also ignored Dr. Paul when, in 1984 while speaking over at Auburn University’s Mises Institute, he predicted the stock market crash of 1987. It’s now impossible to ignore the fact that businesses are closing, jobs are disappearing, and those with jobs are being cut back to part time.

A bill has been introduced in Congress to allow for more transparency regarding the actions of the Federal Reserve Bank System. A broad coalition of Representatives has joined in supporting our right to transparency at the Fed. For example, Rep. Tom Price (GA), head of the conservative Republican Study Committee, and Rep. Lynn Woolsey (CA), former head of the liberal Progressive Caucus, have both cosponsored the bill. Americans from all over the political spectrum are demanding an audit of the Federal Reserve. And with good reason!

I urge everyone to read and support House Resolution 1207. (It can be found at this web address

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:17:./temp/~bdtR0N::|/bss/d111query.html|) Over 100 U.S. Congressman (currently 112) have thrown their support behind the bill in the form of co-sponsorship. Again, they are Democrats and Republicans. The intentions of anyone not supporting more transparency for those who control our economy should be questioned. If the President chooses not to support such legislation, his motives should then be truly questioned.

Best Regards,

Tony Andrews, Jr.

Selma, AL

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:52:24

gather dot com

HR 1207 has 110 Cosponsors. Way to go Ron Paul.
April 30, 2009 06:48 PM EDT
views: 790 | rating: 10/10 (8 votes) | comments: 16

Dear Friends,

As we reflect on President Obama’s first 100 days in office, the hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer bailouts of Wall Street and the just passed budget, a staggering $3.4 trillion boondoggle, I wanted to share some good news with you.

As I write, H.R. 1207, my bill to audit the Federal Reserve, currently has 110 cosponsors in the House of Representatives. This piece of legislation is perhaps the most important of my career, and I thank you for your continued support in sending me back to Congress to fight for it.

A broad coalition of Representatives has joined with me in supporting your right to transparency at the Fed. For example, Rep. Tom Price (GA), head of the conservative Republican Study Committee, and Rep. Lynn Woolsey (CA), former head of the liberal Progressive Caucus, have both cosponsored the bill. Americans from all over the political spectrum are demanding an audit of the Federal Reserve. And with good reason!

Since its inception, the Federal Reserve has operated without sufficient transparency or accountability to the American people. In fact, current law specifically excludes the Fed from audit or real congressional oversight. No government agency has such an utter lack of sunshine.

The Federal Reserve has created and dispersed trillions of dollars in response to our current financial crisis. Of course, I am among the most outspoken critics of the bailouts, but Americans across the nation, regardless of their opinion of the TARP program, want to know where that money has gone and exactly how much has been spent.

H.R. 1207 will open up the Fed’s funding facilities, such as the Primary Dealer Credit Facility, Term Securities Lending Facility, and Term Asset-Backed Securities Lending Facility to Congressional oversight.

Additionally, audits could include discount window operations, open market operations, and agreements with foreign central banks, such as the ongoing dollar swap operations with European central banks.

By opening all Fed operations to a GAO audit and calling for such an audit to be completed by the end of 2010, the H.R. 1207 would achieve much-needed transparency of the Federal Reserve.

Times are tough, and we continue to hear a stream of bad news. But I will continue to stand up for you in Congress and fight for our American traditions, to protect our Liberty and for an Audit of the Federal Reserve.

Thank you again for your support. I could not continue my fight without you.

In Liberty,

Ron Paul

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 23:54:33

Opinion - Letters to the Editor

POSTED: Thursday, Apr. 30, 2009
Supports bill asking for transparency
LETTERS - THE BELLINGHAM HERALD

Those who care about American independence and freedom should be interested in knowing where all the bailout money from their pockets (or their descendants’ pockets) is going.

That is why Ron Paul authored HR 1207: the Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009.

At the time of this writing, the bill has 58 co-sponsors in both the Republican and Democratic parties. Please support this bill. Please call your congressman and voice your opinion that we want to have transparency concerning where all your money is being spent. Money that your children or children’s children may have to repay.

Mark Edson

Ferndale

 
 
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