May 4, 2009

A Loss Leader For California

The Union reports from California. “Balloons and ‘open house’ signs dotted Nevada County neighborhoods over the weekend, as selective sellers hunted for bargains and looked to take advantage of low interest rates.The county’s March median of $360,000 was a drop of more than 13 percent from the year before but higher than the February median of $320,000, according to figures from MDA DataQuick. It’s difficult to say whether the local market could be reaching a bottom, three area real estate agents said Sunday. Although she had only seen one person at the high-end home she was showing on Freeman Lane, Realtor Pam Auld was optimistic. ‘I do not feel like we’ve bottomed out, but not all the houses will continue to freefall’ in price, Auld said.”

“‘There is a feeling the market is picking up,’ said Barbara Parrott, who saw ‘tons’ of people at an open house on Richardson Street. ‘One year ago I had no buyers. Now, I have buyers and they are making offers. Maybe we’re getting to the bottom; it feel like things are changing. What people need to understand, though, is this doesn’t mean prices will start going up.’”

“In the nine Bay Area counties, the median price for March fell nearly 46 percent to $290,000. In the six Southern California counties, the median price fell 35 percent to $250,000, DataQuick reported. Activity in those markets typically shapes the local market, as local buyers often come from those areas.”

The Mercury News. “Rene Williams and her husband are anxious to buy her parents’ house in Cupertino to save money and send their kids to better schools. Art Reese wishes he could recoup his investment in the Tudor home he built. To get on with their lives, though, they need to sell their homes in Willow Glen, one of San Jose’s most popular neighborhoods, where charming Spanish bungalows sit beside mini-mansions built at the height of the housing boom. They’ve waited. They’ve lowered their prices. But their higher-end homes won’t sell.”

“‘It’s like this limbo,’ Williams said.”

“These are the faces of the new American Gothic, where people who’ve worked hard and played by the rules are caught in an economic freeze frame — with a ‘for sale’ sign out front.”

“Eric and Valerie Negler want to retire to their 15 acres on an island in Washington’s Puget Sound. They listed their home last May for $2.4 million. But nothing happened. They lowered their asking price to $2.275 million. Still nothing. The couple began to bicker. ‘We started saying, ‘You should have done this,’ ‘No, you should have done that,’ Negler said. ‘You go through anger, frustration, uncertainty. Then you realize this is bigger than us.’”

The Press Democrat. “Empty storefronts and deserted office parks are stark evidence that housing isn’t the only troubled segment of the real estate market in Sonoma County. The commercial sector is taking a pounding as stores and companies go out of business, drying up demand for industrial, office and retail space while triggering a rise in foreclosures.”

“Jessica Ruderman, senior analyst for the market research firm Real Capital Analytics, said 14 buildings in the Marin-Napa-Sonoma market worth $123 million are in default or foreclosure. That’s up from seven distressed properties in the region four months ago, she said.”

“In the Bay Area, $2.6 billion in commercial real estate is on the brink, compared to $373 million in December, Ruderman said. ‘I think we’ll see more properties get into trouble before this is resolved,’ Ruderman said. ‘We’re waiting for federal bailout money to flow through, but we haven’t seen it yet.’”

The Sacramento Bee. “Downtown Plaza…the two-level shopping center, embedded into four downtown city blocks, is undergoing a severe midlife crisis. Familiar retailers have shut their doors in the past few years. A planned renovation designed to update and reinvigorate the center is on hold. By some counts, more than one out of every three storefronts is vacant.”

“The plaza’s challenges can’t be separated from other issues facing downtown Sacramento. Located between the K Street Mall and the massive railyard project, it is integral to the ambitious plan Sacramento officials have of turning the inner city into a regional attraction with shopping, dining, entertainment and homes.”

“But the renovation of the adjacent 700 block of K Street has stalled. Past and present tenants and city representatives cite several reasons for Downtown Plaza’s troubles, including competition from suburban retail outlets like the Westfield Galleria at Roseville and several stalled housing projects that would have brought thousands of new residents to the city center.”

“Those condominium high-rises would have been a shot in the arm for the mall, said City Councilman Ray Trethaway. Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson is trying to meet with Westfield representatives to get a read on their timeline for remodeling the plaza. ‘We can’t have them continue to sit on the property,’ Johnson said. ‘The down economy is not going to be the only excuse. This has been stalled for several years.’”

The Desert Sun. “Apartment rents are falling in the Coachella Valley, as unemployment kept a grip on the Inland Empire. Average rents in the Inland Empire declined 4.5 percent in the first three months of 2009, RealFacts noted, observing: ‘Average rents haven’t been this low since early 2007.’”

“The USC Lusk Center for Real Estate said in its Casden Forecast that the ‘falling rent’ trend is expected to continue this year. ‘In Los Angeles County alone, 41,000 people moved out of apartments last year, compared to the 29,000 who moved in over the past five years,’ said Delores Conway, director of the forecast. ‘The dramatic changes in the economy are taking their toll on landlords’ as they are reporting lowering rents or concessions to keep the units occupied.”

“Two new apartment complexes arrived in Palm Desert in 2008 — one next to a newly built school. The other, The Enclave, was originally built as a condominium community. When the housing market soured, The Enclave attracted tenants for luxury rentals with monthly rent starting at $1,105.”

“The fall in occupancy has led to creative deals to entice tenants. Typically, ‘Stay free for a month’ specials roll out across the valley in June and July. Other deals popping up here have offered up to five months off on rent, $99 to $300 move-in specials and paid utilities.”

“For all renters, lower leasing rates is a welcome reprieve. Rents skyrocketed by as much as 22 percent between 2003 and 2007 when real estate boomed and apartment prices were a fraction of a new home mortgage. ‘It’s brought balance back into the market,’ said Caroline Latham, CEO of RealFacts. ‘When rents were going up at the rate of 2 to 5 percent a year, it became steadily more a landlords’ market. That trend has been reversed.’”

The Orange County Register. “Home sales in Coto de Caza and Trabuco Canyon increased in the first quarter of 2009, but the prices of the homes that are selling are lower. ‘I think the increase in home sales is significant because it shows the homes are selling,’ said Mike Ameel of Mike Ameel Real Estate Services. ‘The low median selling prices along with the surge in sales indicate a substantial increase at the bottom end of the market.’”

“Ameel primarily sells homes in Coto de Caza. He said the prices of homes sold in the gated community so far this year were primarily on the low end of the scale. The median price of homes sold dropped 27 percent to $564,000, according to Data Quick statistics.”

“‘This is good news for sellers in the upper end of the market because it is the pressure created from lower end sales that eventually begin to benefit higher end home sales,’ he said.”

The North County Times. “In an effort to kick-start the local economy and revive home construction, Riverside County supervisors are considering a fee rebate program to buyers of new houses. Earlier this week, supervisors directed county staff to research whether giving part of the fees to buyers would be enough of an incentive to induce people to buy new homes again.”

“The recommendation for the reduction came from the county’s Red Team, composed of county executives, city managers and other experts, formed last year to find cures to the county’s foreclosure epidemic. Their report to supervisors recommended reducing fees on new houses, which average $42,000, the county said.”

“If half the fees were rebated to the buyers, that could be $20,000 or more. In their report, the Red Team suggested a rebate of between 25 percent and 50 percent.”

“John Husing, vice president of a Redlands-based consulting firm, says the county could be on to something with the idea of giving money to buyers of new homes. ‘(Rebates) would be a good idea —- it would lower the effective cost of the house,’ Husing said. However, he added, for rebates to be attractive, about 60 percent of the fees would have to be rebated, or about $25,000.”

“Invoking retail analogies, 3rd District Supervisor Jeff Stone said the county needs to have a sale on (housing) fees. ‘It would be a loss leader,’ he said, referencing a strategy stores use to sell some items at a loss to boost sales of other items.”

“Stone’s comments came after a line of builders pleaded with supervisors earlier this week to cut the fees or do something to revive home construction in the county. Although supervisors approved exploring the issue, they said they’re wary of again becoming too reliant on home construction as a driving force of the region’s economy.”

“‘I don’t see any discussion of the realities —- we need to confront our overdependence on housing,’ said 1st District Supervisor Bob Buster. ‘We bet the store here on housing and we fell off a cliff.’”

The Voice of San Diego. “This is a big week for Vantage Pointe, downtown’s biggest condo building. Next weekend is circled on the calendars of as many as 72 contracted buyers there, people who signed up in 2004 for a chance to own a piece of the then-hypothetical high-rise.”

“That’s the date — Saturday for a couple, Sunday for the rest — that comes 42 months after they reserved their condos with 5 percent deposits in 2005. If the developers fail to make their units ready for move-in by then, some buyers could walk away from their contracts, their deposits in hand.”

“The nearly 300 buyers and the project’s Canadian developers are locked in stalemate as the deadlines loom. Buyers say they’re waiting for clear assurances for the developers that there will be price discounts, financing available and a completed, safe building before they sign their paperwork. The developers wonder how many of the buyers will actually go through with their commitment to purchase units several years — and one housing-bubble bust — later.”

“It is unclear even yet what effect the building’s opening will have on the rest of the downtown real estate market, already weighed down by more than 850 finished unsold units, according to MarketPointe Realty Advisers. The homes at Vantage Pointe and another 148 at another under-construction project downtown will double that number.’

“For months, lenders have told buyers that there is no way to finance the building, citing issues with the number of unsold units. Brad Willis, moderator of a Vantage Pointe message board that he started five years ago, said the developers haven’t yet told the buyers even about the conditional Fannie Mae approval. He said it was one more example of the developers communicating poorly with the buyers, like him, who have deadlines rapidly approaching.”

“‘This whole process has been like a train’s been coming down the tunnel at you since December,’ he said. ‘The developer’s had the option to change tracks, or tell you about the train, and they’ve just kept coming. They’ve just been whistling. Now with barely a week to go, they haven’t really addressed the issues.’”

“Brian Luternauer, who’s slated to close on a unit on May 22, works in the finance industry and said he hasn’t been able to track down a loan. ‘There is zero financing available,’ he said.”

“Luternauer said he’s still not sure if he’ll go through with his purchase of a two-bedroom unit on the 8th floor. He said he would consider it if his monthly payment with taxes, insurance, and $450 homeowners association monthly payment would be what he could rent the unit for. Based on those fees and a mortgage for his $392,000 purchase price, he thinks his monthly cost will be double the cost to rent a unit.”

“‘There’s somebody else that would have my same unit for half the price who has no (ownership) bond to it, either,’ he said.”




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113 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-04 11:37:35

‘The renovation of the adjacent 700 block of K Street has stalled. …several stalled housing projects that would have brought thousands of new residents to the city center. ‘Those condominium high-rises would have been a shot in the arm for the mall, said City Councilman Ray Trethaway. Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson …’We can’t have them continue to sit on the property,’ Johnson said. ‘The down economy is not going to be the only excuse. This has been stalled for several years.’

Ah, downtown Sacramento condos. I’ve followed this for so long they should put a HBB memorial on that hole in the ground.

BTW, Florida HBBers, we got to get a little more energy in this meetup in your state. I just got off the phone with the Schwarzfilm director and he wants to talk with some of you guys! I suggest we narrow it down to Miami, Orlando or Sarasota-Bradenton.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 11:46:09

They should erect a giant toilet seat around the hole with some giant dollar bills emblazoned “taxpayer money” on it, and have a comically oversized lever you can push to make a giant flushing sound.

That’d at least bring in some tourist trade.

 
Comment by Mugsy
2009-05-04 11:53:30

Speaking of Sacto….I was at the Westfield Galleria yesterday and it was packed! I was very shocked by this considering the unemployment up around these parts is in the neighborhood of 15%. These people had bags too. Lots of them. I cannot for the life of me figure out what was going on there yesterday. Some kind of tax rebate I don’t know about maybe?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-05-04 12:16:40

They may be out spending their tax refunds. In the world of the employed, that’s a big deal. OTOH, if you’re self employed, you can pretty much count on owing taxes.

Comment by MacAttack
2009-05-04 13:42:45

Even if you’re not - my income was variable and I ended up writing a check (and having the wife displeased about it!)

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-05-04 12:19:00

All those people at the mall……what’s the attraction?

I must be one weird dude because I haven’t purchased anything at a mall in probably 18 years and I can’t think of one overpriced item sold there that would be worth the expenditure?

Someone help! What am I missing?

Comment by Wickedheart
2009-05-04 12:28:59

Were you hatched from an egg? Everyone is at the mall buying presents for Mother’s Day, silly.

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Comment by peter a
2009-05-04 20:48:10

cina-bun

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Comment by PeonInChief
2009-05-04 12:59:18

Sacramentans seem to do mall shopping as entertainment. There’s not much to do here otherwise. And for the best entertainment, the Galleria is it.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-05-04 13:58:19

That’s true of far more places than Sacramento.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 19:43:01

Including Portland. With all there is to do outdoors here the number one place visited in this state is an outdoor shopping mall.

 
 
Comment by VinnieTheFish
2009-05-04 14:17:28

“Sacramentans seem to do mall shopping as entertainment. There’s not much to do here otherwise. And for the best entertainment, the Galleria is it.”

Same thing in the Scottsdale/Phoenix area as well. Of course now that we’re hitting the 100 degree marks starting Wed it’s more of an extreme sport.

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Comment by REhobbyist
2009-05-04 16:35:22

Hi Peon. There’s not much here, but maybe I can suggest a few things. There are several downtown theatre groups that do a nice job. The minor league baseball team has won the championship three years running and tickets are less than half of the major league teams. In the fall there are a couple of opera productions that are passable. I can recommend Tapas the World for good food served on the patio with a pitcher of sangria. Golf courses are cheap, cheap, cheap. There are no decent art museums, but the downtown galleries are fun to visit on second Saturdays. Don’t go to the malls - you’ll lose your faith in mankind. Take a walk instead - lots of beautiful hikes around here.

And when you’re really desperate, go to a Sunday open house and annoy the agent with your superior knowledge of the real estate market!

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Comment by ceylontea
2009-05-05 09:38:28

Going to the mall is the only thing one can do in Dübai. I miss walking down the sidewalk on Clark or Southport in Chitown!

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Comment by BottomFisher
2009-05-04 13:06:59

Shop lifting field training?

 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-05-04 12:12:02

It’s not clear to me how a bunch of Condos in downtown Sacramento would provide a “shot in the arm” for the mall. Even condo dwellers don’t need the overpriced useless items sold in that mall.

Maybe they mean a shot of poison?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-05 09:41:57

Because housing only goes up, silly!

See, the new owners will swap their houses with their neighbors once a month with a 10% increase in price each time. Then, magically, Sacremento will eventually have a condo tower worth a zillion dollars and will use it to buy more real estate - because it only goes up!

 
 
Comment by PeonInChief
2009-05-04 12:56:54

They can’t even sell the condos in the smaller midtown developments that they’ve already built. Some of the already-built are being rented, and some people have been dumb enough to do lease options on them.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-05-04 14:33:58

http://tinyurl.com/cxrzmw

Friday, April 17, 2009
Lofts lender asks to foreclose on unsold units

The L Street Lofts had been hailed as a revitalizing project for midtown Sacramento but a protracted dispute has left sales offices closed and the high-profile project in danger of foreclosure due to an unpaid $25 million construction loan………..only 22 of the 92 condos have sold

Oh yeah, we need more condos in Sacramento……………….RIIIIIIIIGHT!

 
Comment by patient renter
2009-05-04 15:40:22

I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that the hole in the ground was partially funded by CalPERS, the widely criticized state worker pension fund that lost a stupid amount of money during the downturn.

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-05-04 17:58:16

Incredible wasn’t it, when CALPERS announced they were going heavily into real estate AFTER the market already had started to crumble. I wonder how many financial wizards are making 6-figure salaries at CALPERS? How many of them were laid off this year due to gross stupidity? I’m better zero. And if they did get laid off, I’m sure that a university endowment would snap them right up at a higher salary.

Comment by Wickedheart
2009-05-04 20:06:00

CalPERS, CalSTRS Award Big Bonuses Despite Losses

California’s two biggest public employee pension funds handed out millions of dollars in bonuses last year to their top executives and investment managers, despite losing billions of dollars.

The biggest bonus check, $322,953, went to Christopher Ailman, chief investment officer of the California State Teachers’ Retirement System. It nearly doubled his base pay of $330,000 for fiscal 2007-08.

Ailman’s counterpart at the California Public Employees’ Retirement System, Russell Read, received a $208,677 bonus to his $555,360 base pay in August, more than a month after he had resigned from the fund’s top investment job.

Despite continued losses in the market, both funds expect to cut more bonus checks, which they call “incentive awards,” this summer.

http://tinyurl.com/cfyjbl

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Comment by REhobbyist
2009-05-04 16:28:27

That’s how I found the HBB. I was reading about these big high rise condos that were planned in Sacramento during 2005. I thought it was ridiculous and went online for verification of my sanity. I found vindication and learned the whole, complicated explanation of how the bubble happened. Thanks, Ben. And I’ll likely profit from it, too. I got my real estate license last year and I’m being solicited by my co-workers who listened to me over the past four years to help me find them cheap houses.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-05-04 11:45:00

Eric and Valerie Negler want to retire to their 15 acres on an island in Washington’s Puget Sound. They listed their home last May for $2.4 million. But nothing happened. They lowered their asking price to $2.275 million. Still nothing. The couple began to bicker. ‘We started saying, ‘You should have done this,’ ‘No, you should have done that,’ Negler said. ‘You go through anger, frustration, uncertainty. Then you realize this is bigger than us

The American Family House “bickering” has ONLY just begun.

It’s is after ALL …just business !

:)

Comment by DinOR
2009-05-04 12:04:14

mikey,

LOL! Yeah if I’ve learned nothing else about being married it’s that nothing can get you in trouble quicker than saying “you should have”!

I mean the whole phrase is surrounded by nothing but pungee sticks and concertina wire? No where you can go from ‘there’. But given our current state of affairs I don’t think there’s a lot of empathy left for well-to-do’s bickering over their lack of market timing.

We’ll see plenty of retirees blaming each other but in the end, most kiss, make up and “walk away” from their “old obligations” in exchange for their “new lifestyle”.

 
Comment by Frankenstein
2009-05-04 12:36:58

Just out of curiosity. What do think 15 acres in Pueget sound goes for and what is the probability that an enormous need for equity extraction from their home is necessary to meet that obligation?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 13:58:39

Exactly my thoughts. I’ll throw in $50 that says they bought the 15 acres assuming a quick cash-out sale of their current home. Chuckle.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 12:53:57

So who can blame the Neglers for making big plans? Valerie, 58, spent the past year as the project manager on their island getaway, working with architects to design the modern glass and wood home, overseeing the digging of a well. The profit from the sale of their house was supposed to finance construction…

Yeah. I just can’t WAIT to see you two Braniacs out here. :roll:

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 12:55:09

Braniacs ,/i>

Ooops, I meant ‘Brainiacs’. I best go massage my ‘Bran’, so it can spell better next time. :)

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 12:58:23

Ooops, I meant ‘Brainiacs’. I best go massage my ‘Bran’, so it can spell better next time.

Sweet Jeebus! And so my Bran can ALSO remember to turn off the italics tag next time!

*shouts up towards top of fluffy noggin *
“Come ON, Bran! Yer disappointing me, here!”

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Comment by bink
2009-05-04 13:07:52

As a Brian I’m finding this absolutely hysterical.

(and painful)

 
Comment by Big V
2009-05-04 13:42:33

I always knew you were a bit flaky, Olygal.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-05-04 14:16:51

“I always knew you were a bit flaky, Olygal.”

I always think more along the line of Kelloog’s Froot Loops when describing Olygal ;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 16:32:33

I always knew you were a bit flaky, Olygal.

Hahahaaha! :)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 16:34:27

I always think more along the line of Kelloog’s Froot Loops when describing Olygal

You!
IIIII prefer to be likened unto ‘Lucky Charms’, because they have a leprechaun involved, and as we know, I appreciate leprechauns.
One thing that bothered me was how the poor Trix bunny never got any joy.

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 12:58:43

Another reference from the Superman world. You go gal. :grin:

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 13:02:15

I’m always so delighted that you know these arcane things, SanFran.
It charms my ‘Bran’ whenever I read your posts. :)

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Comment by DinOR
2009-05-04 14:28:56

Olygal,

No, she “spent the last year BURNING through $$$’s like there was no tomorrow!” ( “Project Manager” my @$$ ) No one seemed to catch it but ‘that’ is the ultimate expression of HB Madness. Not only can you pilfer equity from your home, you can use the money in advance and “employ” -yourself- with an appropriate title of course in the process?!? I mean, why not.

My guess is this is Vashon but hey, it’s their money to burn.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 20:44:15

My guess is this is Vashon but hey, it’s their money to burn.

Ya think? Good. Because I prefer that relocating REtards not live near ME.
(Plus Vashon’s gonna fall in the sea. It does all the time.)

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-05-04 14:52:19

“Yeah. I just can’t WAIT to see you two Braniacs out here.”

I can’t wait for these people to be curled up in a fetal position, weeping and praying for sunlight after their first year without a summer. I’m sure they cleared their 15 acres of all of the trees in order to make it “happier” and more “California like”.

Comment by DinOR
2009-05-04 15:38:50

BanteringBear,

LOL! Right, and with a lot LESS “property” after relentless rains? You know though, it was -you- that reminded me not to get frustrated over people that list their homes in “dream pricing territory” some time back.

I believe you said that simply the act of listing it at nose bleed prices enables their daydreams and fills their need to fanatsize about “what having all that money will be like!?”

Well here you have it my friend! In all it’s glory. Of course they say there’s no harm in having fantasies ( just as long as you don’t ACT on them! ) Well it’s a little late for ‘that’ ya’ think?

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 18:43:39

I can’t wait for these people to be curled up in a fetal position, weeping and praying for sunlight after their first year without a summer.

Sure. I’ll take that, too.

*soggy giggle *

Speaking of, it’s all nice and rainy right here, right now, at 6:46 p.m.

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Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 13:02:36

Mikey
Yeah, agreed, I wouldn’t want to be fly on the way in millions of American kitchens. Loud, constant arguments about finances (”We should have sold in oh-five and rented” and so on) are probably pretty deafening.
The partial answer would be for people to be thankful for what they do have, instead of being upset over what they don’t, and perhaps never did, except in their fantasies.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 13:03:45

way=wall

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-05-04 14:21:48

they need to sell their homes in Willow Glen, one of San Jose’s most popular neighborhoods

The most “Bubbley” of all the area’s around here…These are the Wannabe/Look rich group…

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 16:13:36

Willow Glen has been taking a pounding, too. Not like some of East San Jose, but it’s getting slapped around and called Sally.

These were the people who couldn’t afford Mountain View, which will soon be getting its own pounding.

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-05-04 16:25:57

When will the pounding spread to Los Altos and Palo Alto?

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 22:42:57

Probably they will start to feel it starting at the end of the summer, moving into early fall. That’s just a guess, though.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-05-05 10:10:55

There are about 130 houses for sale right now in Los Altos according to Redfin. If you drive around the town, you can see “open house” signs on nearly every corner each weekend.

There aren’t a lot of sales occurring: 32 in the past three months, so there’s a one-year inventory for sale right now, mostly at nosebleed prices affordable by very few now that jumbo loans and above-water stock options are in scarce supply.

 
Comment by MountainViewJason
2009-05-05 16:53:30

It’s amazing how high the prices have stayed in the Mountain View through Palo Alto areas (plus the hills). It is weakening all around them in the cheaper areas (Sunnyvale, Redwood City, and anything next to the bay) that nicely box them in. Although even the weaker areas seem to have a long way to go.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Ann
2009-05-04 17:52:36

Yep..guess they thought that EVERYONE in the WORLD can afford a 2 million dollar home..

It gets to a point that its not whether you can afford to get into it but can you afford to get out of it..example..my neighbor next door works and makes around $750K here in GA..now by all right her family should be in a much much more expensive home, but they chose to look at how much how they NEEDED and not how much they could afford.

They have a couple million in the bank and figure when the time comes to retire they want to be able to sell and move on in life…

Based on the medium home price of the area..they will have no problem selling.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 12:01:07

‘We’re waiting for federal bailout money to flow through, but we haven’t seen it yet.’

It’s great to see that at least some folks are keeping alive their cargo cult faith that federal bailout money will soon flow through and make the bubble all good again.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 14:23:49

I’ve gotten tired of explaining to people that bubbles aren’t good and why cheap house prices are good for the long term viability of an area. They just don’t ‘get’ it. They think that a 50% fall in the housing prices in the Bay Area is the end of the world instead of a chance of keeping industries, jobs, and things BESIDES crime in the area. They don’t seem to realize that San Fran could become a techy version of Detroit if they aren’t careful. They saw it when the semiconductor business that put the silicon in Silicon Valley went in the tank. If housing stays ridiculously high, info-tech companies will CONTINUE to migrate out.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-05-04 14:40:58

Wouldn’t lower prices free up money that could be used for more productive endeavors? And couldn’t some of that money be saved, which, in turn could provide fuel for investing?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 16:03:39

Absolutely. Lower housing costs = godsend for a consumer driven economy that isn’t using housing to leverage debt.

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Comment by measton
2009-05-04 19:04:30

Lower housing costs = godsend for a consumer driven economy that isn’t using housing to leverage debt.

Think of the banks man, how will they be able to strip wealth if you take this away.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 22:44:36

They can always set up dunking booths for their executives. I’m sure that would shore up their balance sheets. “Liquidity for liquidity!”

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-05-05 09:55:49

Any sane person who is NOT involved in stripping wealth out of the economy and leeching from the workers like a parasite in a suit would see the benefits of LOWER housing prices… the fact that so many want HIGHER prices only shows where their real interests lie. It’s all about the looting!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 12:04:00

“‘This is good news for sellers in the upper end of the market because it is the pressure created from lower end sales that eventually begin to benefit higher end home sales,’ he said.”

To bad the pressure this dude is imagining actually is a vacuum due to crashing prices.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 12:08:22

Too bad… (My spellchecker is busted)

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 12:59:55

Maybe yer Bran is just out of tune today. Mine sure is. (See above post.) :)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 13:05:35

Apparently I didn’t consume enough alcohol over the weekend. I have to make sure that I consume sufficient amounts so that nobody mistakes me for a member of the LDS fold.

P.S. We know someone who went to church every Sunday for years, then was excommorminated due to chronic alcoholism.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 13:38:51

Did I misspell “excommormicated”?

 
Comment by REhobbyist
2009-05-04 16:41:10

I was raised Catholic. Alcoholism was required, especially for the priest.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 18:56:18

Apparently I didn’t consume enough alcohol over the weekend.

Too bad you wasn’t here for MY weekend. I would have jumped out of the shrubberies in a dynamic fashion and sat on yer and then poked a lot of nicely rolled and smoking herbs into yer until you calmed down and relaxed.
Then I would have showed you how to do a polka right, for verily, I was super good at polka-ing yesterday.

….But on the other hand, now that I consider it, today I cannot spell nor remember to turn off the italics tab.

….But on the other, other hand, it was a totally worth it trade-off.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 19:54:18

“I was raised Catholic. Alcoholism was required, especially for the priest.”

Har! They even serve wine during Mass! At least they give you bread first to help absorb the alcohol.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-04 20:45:38

Plus they have pretty hats! I love pretty hats.

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 13:00:13

Not your spell checker your grammar checker blew you out of the water PB. :)

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 13:08:05

My spellchecker started celebrating Cinco de Mayo early. Tequila vapors flowing from USB port. Or maybe its hungover from the Derby.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-04 15:53:46

What I don’t get is the market spike today after the housing sales stats were released… here is what I heard..
or didn’t hear, that the Sales were closed. Not in escrow. Done. Funded.
Just cause there were more sales, doesn’t mean they closed.

’splain to me Lucy’.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 18:00:07

We all no yore spellchecker wooden of caught “To bad” as an airer.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 12:10:40

‘(Rebates) would be a good idea —- it would lower the effective cost of the house,’

Who is Husing imagining will bear the cost of $25,000 for the rebate on each home sold? Is he a member of the cadre of economists who believe that money grows on trees?

Comment by Wickedheart
2009-05-04 12:34:56

Rebates keep the sales price and therefore the property tax higher.

Comment by bink
2009-05-04 12:49:00

Don’t forget the commission.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-04 13:01:54

Perfect plan: Fund the $25,000 rebates out of the property taxes charged to the newly-minted homeowners. The left hand that receives the rebate can hand it over to the right hand, which can pay the property tax that funds the rebate. No one else needs to be saddled with the cost of funding homeowners’ rebates.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-05-04 13:45:34

The answer is simple, Prof. The money will come from you! See, there’s an easy answer to everything.

 
 
Comment by nah415
2009-05-04 12:16:53

“Ameel primarily sells homes in Coto de Caza. He said the prices of homes sold in the gated community so far this year were primarily on the low end of the scale. The median price of homes sold dropped 27 percent to $564,000, according to Data Quick statistics.”

“‘This is good news for sellers in the upper end of the market because it is the pressure created from lower end sales that eventually begin to benefit higher end home sales,’ he said.”

Huh? Only a real estate agent could come out with a comment like this. It makes no sense to me (which is probably a good thing).

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-05-04 12:21:15

Yeah, baby! Those higher end sale prices are comin’ DOWN!

Comment by nah415
2009-05-04 13:46:29

That’s going to be GREAT news for sellers of upper end homes!

Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 18:40:38

Your screen name describes where that median will be next year. “Wanna pay $564K?” … “Nah. 415.”

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Comment by jd
2009-05-04 12:24:42

“It’s brought balance back into the market,…”

Why is it that used house sales people seem to be the only sales people to use the term “balance”?

Or, have I been missing something?

Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 13:12:11

I just want my tires to balance. :)
My kid’s Wii Fit balance board is suitably stable.
I just wish they would stop propping up markets with Tinkertoy dowels. They are gonna snap.
After mid-term elections, I spose.

 
 
Comment by Left LA
2009-05-04 13:23:08

From the Voice of San Diego article:

Luternauer said he’s still not sure if he’ll go through with his purchase of a two-bedroom unit on the 8th floor. He said he would consider it if his monthly payment with taxes, insurance, and $450 homeowners association monthly payment would be what he could rent the unit for. Based on those fees and a mortgage for his $392,000 purchase price, he thinks his monthly cost will be double the cost to rent a unit.

“There’s somebody else that would have my same unit for half the price who has no (ownership) bond to it, either,” he said.

Funny how just now, 42 months after signing a purchase agreement, Luternauer actually does the math to figure out if his unit’s PITI is greater than market rent. I realize that rents have fallen, but certainly not by 50%.

Comment by Wickedheart
2009-05-04 13:55:55

Trust rents haven’t fallen that much here in San Diego.

I’m not sure what is going on in buyer’s minds in SD. Gubermint intervention and banks sitting on the foreclosures seems to be working, temporarily at least. Inventory is low here, around 13,000. Prices are actually starting to rise on the low end. Dopey buyers are bidding prices up and buyers are getting priced out again, just like 2003. It’s nuts. I think people really believe this is the bottom and the RE market is recovering. Just ignore that foreclosure elephant in the room, folks.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 14:28:14

I’m sure he did the math then, too.
“So, it costs more than twice the rent per month, but by the time they build it, it’ll be worth TWICE AS MUCH, so I sell it, pocket the cash, and never have to pay a dime in mortgage payments!”

That’s how it was working out for the last few years, right?

 
Comment by whyoung
2009-05-04 15:30:00

but people always think of the cost after taxes, forgetting 1) that you have to have the income to deduct those expenses from and 2) that the value of the mortgage deduction declines over time and 3)for many people the deductions eventually become less valuable than the standard deduction, depending on the size of family, etc.

Comment by measton
2009-05-04 19:07:07

You forgit AMT which takes big bite out of those mortage property tax deductions.

 
 
 
Comment by MacAttack
2009-05-04 13:41:19

“These are the faces of the new American Gothic, where people who’ve worked hard and played by the rules are caught in an economic freeze frame — with a ‘for sale’ sign out front.”

Nonsense! This is the face of the nouveau speculator. Sorry, I am afraid I lack the empathy you’re seeking with that comment.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-05-04 14:09:16

Worked hard? Shoot, how many even read their mortgage docs?

Played by the rules? Is mortgage fraud now virtuous behavior?

 
Comment by Tim
2009-05-04 14:11:03

That quote totally lost me. Why are those owning mortgaged property assumed to be harder workers, and why are those that either overpaid (which was obvious at the time of purchase based on any historical ratio test), or pulled out phantom equity that never should have existed to begin with, conservative rule followers? It makes no sense. Are renters that refused to over pay during the bubble lazy radicals?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 14:17:48

You’re either part of the system or not. With us or against us, etc.

That’s what my friends think. Not by what they say, but by what they do. True believers.

Comment by DinOR
2009-05-04 14:40:57

sleepless,

True enough. Even those among us that really -had- no… desire to be a part of a system or ‘with’ anybody, got tangled up in the down draft.

People seem to keep conveniently wanting to gloss over the fact that whether or NOT you’re a bubblehead renter ( for -damn- sure your LL was a specuvestor )

The REIC Blame Game is just sliding down slope. At first it was DAMN banks for not wanting to keep the game alive, then it was the DAMN government not wanting to “play ball” then it was DAMN low-ballers, now it’s lazy radical renters! At what point do they run out of people to point the finger at?

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Comment by Jimmy Jazz
2009-05-04 14:02:56

Wow, some quality journalism in those articles:

“Activity in those markets typically shapes the local market, as local buyers often come from those areas”

Local buyers come from the local area? WOW THAT’S AMAZING! [/Huell Howser voice].

“‘I think the increase in home sales is significant because it shows the homes are selling,’ said Mike Ameel of Mike Ameel Real Estate Services.”

That one sort of speaks for itself.

Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-05-04 15:39:06

Welcome to California’s Gold! [/Huell Howser voice]

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-05-04 17:59:00

arrrrrrrrgh, you beat me to the punch line Don’t Know. :grin:

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 18:04:32

Jimmy J,

I liked “selective sellers hunted for bargains” [Hunh???]

Also, “rents skyrocketed by 22%” [over a 4-year period when prices were doubling]

 
 
Comment by Crusader
2009-05-04 14:22:18

“These are the faces of the new American Gothic, where people who’ve worked hard and played by the rules are caught in an economic freeze frame — with a ‘for sale’ sign out front.”

Oh my god. I can’t believe that guy is comparing these fraudulent, greedy dolts to the hard-working Puritans of the great American past!

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 14:29:55

I can’t help but want to give those new American Gothic faces a punch!

Maybe I will.

With a lowball offer.

BAM!

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 17:12:46

Here’s how a hard working family played by society’s accepted rules near my hood. Woman has title and loan balance on 3br 2,000 sq ft home in early 1990s. At bubble height, she “sells” the home for $400,000 to her son. Not exactly an arm’s length transaction. But hey, it was a feeding frenzy, and other houses fetched nearly the same. Loan balance was around $200,000 so she receives closing check for around $200,000. Round numbers, the scale is the same. Then, a short time later, new “owner” defaults, hides under BR protection laws etc.
They worked the system. Parent profited with aid of child.

No, not the hard-working ethic that you describe.
When greed becomes the bedrock, collapse follows.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-05-04 20:11:29

I musta missed something. If it was at the height, why involve the son? Why not just sell to anyone?

Guaranteed sale if she goes with the son?

Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-04 23:00:07

Silly me… some details left out.
The son, the story goes, now has access to the funds that his mom got from the sale. Sort of like a judgment-proof stash.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-05-05 03:03:26

The Puritans built their own houses. The American Gothic couple in the Grant Wood painting seem to live in the prairie, so I suppose their neighbors helped them build their house. Today, the mentalilty of the Puritans and the AGs would best be exemplified by those who work hard, save their money, and have been persistently ripped off by inflation and taxes. Maybe they are the very people posting on HBB.

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-05-04 15:31:44

“It’s a hard pill to swallow that if you had sold two years ago you could have made your fortune. And now you’ve seen the value drop from 20 to 50 percent.”

And two years ago was just early 2007, back when prices were faltering and people in areas like this insisted they were “not going to give it away”, because they would only net $200k instead of $275k.

Heh.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-05-04 16:11:08

They’re going to ride it all the way down, just like Slim Pickens did. Except they won’t be yelling “Yeehaw!” but rather “Why meeeeee?”

I know of several houses owned by retiring or soon to retire people who pulled their houses off the market because they weren’t going to get what they wanted for them, thinking they’d relist this spring.

One couple lives just across the street, and had a house listed for about 850k that would rent for MAYBE 3k. They were trying to sell ‘ahead of schedule’ because he lost his job about 2 years earlier than they wanted to retire.

I tried to diplomatically suggest cutting the price until it sold, but they decided to hang on and sell it in 2 years instead.

I don’t think that’s going to work out well for them.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 18:06:52

Selling two years ago was already an iffy proposition. Try three years ago.

Comment by boethius
2009-05-04 23:16:45

two years did it BARELY in northern CA, sold 5/1/2007 and got out by the skin of my teeth….discounted my place slightly (thanks to what I learned here) and had it sold in a week…

 
 
 
Comment by anachronist
2009-05-04 15:41:44

I posted on a California thread on April 27th saying I was looking for some advice about buying in the Westside of Los Angeles. Seeing the headlines for a few years now about lower median prices I figured that I’d dip my toe in the water.

After doing a bit of research, I’ve pulled my toe back out. On ZIPRealty’s website $600k (my absolute upper limit) will get you a place in Venice or Santa Monica that junkies would not shoot up in. By way of comparison, in my old ‘hood down in east side Costa Mesa you can get a nice craftsman for 5-600k (still too high but approaching reality). I don’t understand how the Westside is still so high. Given that the studios have all been through layoffs, I don’t see how the median wage can support these prices. Hopefully as the recent batch of NOD’s work their way through the system more inventory will show up at lower price points. ANyone have any insight? If things are moving at this price point, who’s buying?

Comment by Central Valley Guy
2009-05-04 16:03:31

I think you can equate it to the fall of the Roman Empire, with the Westside as the capital city. All the outlying territories, like Palmdalia, Lancasteria, and the San Fernando Valliana fell to the invading hordes first. But Rome eventually fell. And fell hard. By the 8th century cows were grazing in the Roman Forum. Of course as a prospective Westside homeowner myself, I’m sort of hoping it doesn’t take 8 centuries.

 
Comment by james
2009-05-04 17:07:49

Its going to take a while:
A number of people waiting will buy in at the first price drops.

Another group on the west side are rich people. They are probably out buying inland properties/retreat locations.

Another group are stong hands, long term owners and people that were move up buyers and not as heavily leveraged.

Some have no reason to sell as they will not be able to buy back in and the transaction costs would eat them up.

The westside will remain expensive and will fall later. Probably another two years. As values crater inland (often to zero in the desert) it will very slowly draw away people from the market and then finally the westside will collapse. In the articles it mentions the outmigration/compaction was 40K in LA in the last year. Not a large percentage of dwellings but making things substantially worse. Crime will also be a major driver as mexican influences become worse over the next couple of years.

You also have to remember how stageringly expensive LA is now.

Look at Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Florida or Alabama. Companies are eventually going to figure out they can build facilities cheap in these places and wage pressure will become intense in LA. Either prices will fall or long term deflationary trends will cause prices to drop. I suspect we could be looking at SoCal deflation for more than a decade. Perhaps the midwest and some other locations will have a significant rebound. Long term deflationary trends are businesses moving away.

The liberal democrats will probably accelerate this by producing more expensive taxation/spending on nonproductive aspects of the population.

You could make 35k per year and afford a 3/2 in large swaths of the country now. That is 3x income for a two wage earner household at 8$ per hour.

So. LA is hideously expensive. Business will realize this and leave and prices will erode. That or LA will become a lot cheaper.

There is the possibility the west side just sits there with esentially no market for a long time too. However, I suspect we will start seeing the skinny dippers after a while.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-05-05 19:03:03

. On ZIPRealty’s website $600k (my absolute upper limit) will get you a place in Venice or Santa Monica that junkies would not shoot up in.

Okay, i’ll bite. How much would it cost for a place that junkies would shoot up in?

 
 
Comment by Darrell_in_PHX
2009-05-04 16:22:23

“Rebates keep the sales price and therefore the property tax higher.”

If you read the article, they want the rebates to apply to new houses, not existing. This is to keep construction workers employeed. This is about employment (and profits for the builders), not property tax receipts.

They may as well pay the guys to dig holes, then fill them back up. That would be less damaging as atleast it wouldn’t be adding even more supply of houses to an already saturated market that will just push the bottom all the lower.

 
Comment by blah blah blah
2009-05-04 16:55:58

There are plenty of nice places for rent in great areas for like 2000-2500 a month. I’m talking 2 bed/2 bath condos near the water in exclusive enclaves like Sausalito and Tiburon. You need to be on serious drugs to pay 800k plus for these places when you can rent them for so little.

Sausalito rentals: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa/nby?query=&minAsk=2000&maxAsk=2500&bedrooms=&neighborhood=104

Tiburon rentals:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/apa/nby/104?query=&minAsk=2000&maxAsk=2500&bedrooms=2&neighborhood=108

Comment by az_lender
2009-05-04 18:12:47

Nobody who actually has the 800K is going to pay it, and who’s going to lend it any more?

 
 
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