Bits Bucket For May 9, 2009
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
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Good Morning HBB!
Leigh
Good morning Leigh.
Good morning HBB!
It’s a great day in Florida. I am going to a wedding on the beach. I’ll be sure to get some real estate advice at the punch bowl..
Leigh,
Good morning or for you good afternoon.
No new news?
Chrysler…bottom lines company, workers and taxpayers.
Takes gov’t money…but plans to shut down US Kenosha plant…plans to keep open Saltillo, Mexican plant.
Washington - As they protest Chrysler’s decision to end production at its Kenosha engine plant, Wisconsin lawmakers are urging the automaker and the government to look into retooling the facility by tapping a $25 billion federal loan program for the production of “advanced technology” vehicles.
“Here is $25 billion waiting to be used intelligently to retool plants,” Wisconsin Sen. Herb Kohl said in an interview Thursday.
Kohl raised the issue in a letter also signed by Senate colleague Russ Feingold and U.S. House members Paul Ryan of Janesville and Gwen Moore of Milwaukee and sent Thursday to Steven Rattner, head of President Barack Obama’s Automotive Task Force.
“These loans can provide the financing Chrysler needs to retool the Kenosha engine plant in order to produce the fuel-efficient ‘Phoenix’ line of engines,” they said in the letter.
It’s unclear whether Chrysler would have any interest in pursuing the idea - given its plans to rely on new plants in Michigan and Mexico to produce those engines - or whether the program could be used to interest other firms in revamping the Kenosha plant.
The Kenosha facility is now scheduled to close late next year.
The fund is known as the Advanced Technology Vehicles
http://www.jsonline.com/business/44543902.html
Prime example of why Japan is kicking our butts. The Big 3 are stuck on stupid.
Good find mikey.
news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&topic=b
Banks in much worse shape than stress test reports. Read the first article in Google News. Look at the interactive graphs.
What’s the title? The news updates often
Title Banks Won Concessions on Tests
try this link
online.wsj.com/article/SB124182311010302297.html#mod=testMod
I have lost my will to comment…my brain is empty from all the stress.
Sorry to hear that. My last 3 short positions in the market has been taken out and shot so that’s kinda stressful, even though I have some long positions as well.
Is your stress market related or more of a personal nature?
Oh heck, my shorts got taken out, shot, brought back in and taken out three more times just to make sure they were dead. Think they’ll run out of bullets any time soon?
Next week is option expiration… I certainly hope so.
Just make sure you’re not wearing the shorts when they get shot, and you will be just fine.
Ouch
(best Adam Sandler voice (not good at all))
Fru-stray-shone
Des-purr-ay-shone
My previous comment sounds insincere — my apologies.
Hang in there, man. Every time I go through a phase of worry, I end up looking back and thinking, “worrying was a waste of time.” I hit a dark spot a month or so ago (things are a little different because having a littleman means not having time to feel bad for myself) but Allena’s (sp?) advice was awesome: just get gone, talk to somebody entirely new, try something different and so on…
You might want a break from NYC — I know how that city can box you in. It certainly amplifies trouble, too.
Here’s a (kind of) humorous one for you DJ.
Katrina, Pop Cans and the New York Times
Posted by Bruce Ramsey
“Ready or Not, Katrina Victims Lose Temporary Housing,” was a headline in the New York Times on Thursday. “Though more than 4,000 Louisiana homeowners have received rebuilding money only in the last six months, or are struggling with inadequate grants or no money at all,” the Times reported, “FEMA is intent on taking away their trailers by the end of May.”
These people are still in FEMA trailers? It’s been almost four years since Hurricane Katrina. What have they been doing?
One man has been collecting pop cans. The New York Times leads their story with a description and photo of this man, who has been scavenging garbage to finance the repair of his house. He has a room full of pop cans, stacked chest-high. The trouble is, pop cans aren’t worth much, and less now because aluminum has gone down in value. This man might have sold the cans when the price was high and got a bit more, but he didn’t. He piled them up and their value went down. Anyway, he needs lots and lots and lots more cans before he can fix his house, and therefore he wants to stay in a FEMA trailer at taxpayer’s expense a little while longer. Maybe a big while longer: the story does not say how old this man, now 70, will be when he collects enough pop cans.
Collecting pop cans is a wino’s job. It is no way to finance the repair of a building. And the story says this man owns the building. He’s the landlord. Why doesn’t he put a mortgage on it? If that’s not doable, then why not sell it? But it’s not rational behavior to hold on to flood-damaged real estate for four years while living in a FEMA trailer and piling up a hill of pop cans.
Here is the problem with “objective journalism,” meaning here non-judgmental journalism. If this man says his business plan is to rebuild his life with pop cans, the New York Times reports that as a fact. Don’t ask him why he’s doing it that way; don’t raise your journalistic eyebrows and suggest, ever so subtly, that he’s out of his mind. Indeed—use his story to introduce a whole compendium of hard-luck stories, in all of which helpless victims are asking to stay in their (free?) FEMA trailers. Then quote the hard, cold, Scroogelike dollar-conscious U.S. government P.R. guy saying, “this is a temporary program, it was always intended as a temporary program, and at a certain point all temporary programs must end.”
I agree with the government guy. The program must end–and if the pop-can collector is the strongest case for keeping the program going, then the time to end it is now.
Seattle Times
Leigh
I guarantee you that none of the victims of the recent Red River flooding in North Dakota and Minnesota are going to be living in FEMA trailors four years from now. What a contrast between how Midwesterners pitched in the help their neighbors and themselves and get back on their feet through their own hard work, without any of the looting or mass criminality that swept over New Orleans. The Katrina parasites, products of a belligerent entitlement culture, naturally expected the guv’mint to take care of all their needs once the SHTF. And of course the corrupt, incompetent New Orleans and State governments were not up to the task - imagine that.
Yeah, I am surprised that guy with no legs doesn’t just walk out that FEMA trailer on his own.
I was amazed how all of the people of Minnesota pulled together and rebuilt the Saint Anthony Falls Bridge over I-35W all by yourselves. It was great to see neighbors helping neighbors with no help by the Federal government and certainly no $234 million in taxpayer dollars wasted on a single bridge.
“Yeah, I am surprised that guy with no legs doesn’t just walk out that FEMA trailer on his own.”
“I was amazed how all of the people of Minnesota pulled together and rebuilt the Saint Anthony Falls Bridge over I-35W all by yourselves. It was great to see neighbors helping neighbors with no help by the Federal government and certainly no $234 million in taxpayer dollars wasted on a single bridge.”
Ok, so you are pro Government everything. Forget about individual responsibility and neighbor helping neighbor, that is so old fashioned.
Your bridge analogy does not work. That IS currently a government responsibility on that particular stretch of road.
Don’t get me started…
The pandemic of opportunistic victimhood is the largest scourge that has hit this country since 1918 influenza. Large swaths of New Orleans was a termite- and drug-infested rathole long before Katrina came along. The city was a dump! Katrina knocked down much of what should have been torn down 30 years earlier.
The non-stop whining re: Katrina and an ineffectual federal government is vile. Where’s all the outrage by the media and do-gooders over the lack of attention and aid given to North Dakotans?
Say what you will about the lack of culture and crappy weather of the rural Midwest. Despite the lack of attractions, the people living there are the best we’ve got, bar none. My hat’s off to them.
P.S. - go visit southwest North Dakota - Theodore Roosevelt built a compund there - now known as Theodore Roosevelt National Park. Go in late September/October. Stand atop a 1,000 butte, look at the valley below. Watch millions of acres of orange/red/gold wheatfields whip and swirl around in the wind and listen to the whistling sounds.
As mesmerizing/ethereal as any ocean I’ve ever seen.
A tribute to the rural midwest: “Minnesotaville”
No doubt the Midwesterners are salt of the earth people.
What you wont hear from the MSM is the contrast between the way the New Orleans folks handled the hurricane and their neighbors in Mississippi.
Most people don’t realize that Mississippi took the brunt of the storm. Many refused government assistance and they all worked together to rebuild.
Don’t look for a feature on 60 minutes. It doesn’t fit the agenda.
MD
“Ready or Not, Katrina Victims Lose Temporary Housing,”
Eeee-vick-shone
NYCdj
The Serenity Prayer
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Hi Jeff,
Any update on the hotel room in Florida?
That story got me to thinking:
It’s been a while since I was in Nuke York City. I wonder if the Rockettes are still kicking at Radioactive City Music Hall?
Does anyone else here remember that old black & white TV show, “Half Life, Will Travel”?
Richard Boone starred as Palladium (103).
And I guess you are cobalt-60 with a five-year half-life? Actually that might be a good time-frame for the RE bust, maybe half the FC’s done by early 2012 (just a bit over 5 years past price peak).
No news, it just went away. Like I said the other night the story wasn`t on the PB Post ten minutes after I copied it. So I guess the statement
“However, when firefighters tested a black bag found in a room near the foyer of the hotel, the Gieger counter did find radiation, Chaney said.
“The radiation monitor spiked,” she said. “We’re not sure of everything that is in the bag.”
Wasn`t true at all?
Been there — done that. This, too, shall pass. But good luck in the meanwhile, as underemployment is tough to endure.
“I have lost my will to comment”
P.S. Your comment belies your statement.
Has anyone heard or seen the paper from FASB for changing the way “operating leases” are accounted for?
Following is a summary (no link) from Jones Lang Lasalle.
The Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) and its
international counterpart, the International Accounting Standards
Board (IASB) jointly issued a discussion paper in March 2009
outlining dramatic proposed changes in lease accounting.
• Operating leases as we know them will be eliminated and all
leases will be capitalized on balance sheet. No leases will be
spared, including leases signed before a change in standard.
• There are an estimated $1.3 trillion of leases for U.S. public
companies. Based on the outline of the proposed accounting
changes, the debt load of some companies may go up five times!
• A final standard is expected to be issued in 2011 with possible
effective date in 2012 or 2013.
s
Its a discussion paper, open for comment still.
link
I just looked through the summary but yeah it looks like a major change. A lease will result in recording an asset to recognize the right to use an asset and a liability to recognize the obligation of the payments.
Here’s a good one, channeling our Oz Gal: the Fed as Supercop.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090509/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_financial_meltdown_supercop
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and other officials made it clear they were not inclined to divide the job among various regulators as has been suggested by industry and some federal regulators. Geithner told the group that one organization needs to be held responsible for monitoring systemwide risk.
“Committees don’t make decisions,” said Geithner, according to one participant. “I am THE DECIDER.”
[Emphasis added by editor
]
Is he related to Alexander Haig?
LOL @ Al Haig comment!
“I’m in control.”
I really hope they don’t put the insider trading, closed door, secretive, owned by the banks FED in charge. SEC or FDIC could do the same thing. Piss on the FED.
I have a friend who is in the market for a house. He saw a house recently that he was interested in buying (this is in Northern New Jersey). The house is a nice 3br, good condition and would not need much if any work on it.
The listing has been going on a downward trajectory:
$630k
$607K
$599K
$569k
The house is vacant so my friend thought the owners might be receptive to a low offer. He bid $410k, the owners turned down the bid and declined to counter. I think the dynamic with this house illustrates why those who think we are going to see a bottom to housing in the next year or so are mistaken. Many sellers are still holding on to the idea that they can get prices that are simply not realistic. I’ve noticed from my friend’s dealings on this house that the realtors are getting more realistic, but the message hasn’t apparently gotten through to many of their clients. Eventually these people will concede to reality, but it is likely going to take more time and significant amount of financial pain.
I recently had an interesting e-mail exchange with a realtor whose listing in Colorado Springs Old North Side has been on the market for well over a year. These are grand old houses, but they’re also money pits, so my offer ($386K on a house they were asking $585K for) was priced accordingly. I reminded the realtor that six percent of zero is zero, and asked when she’s going to get serious about selling the house. She gave me the usual line about how pricing correctly is “an art more than a science,” to which I responded, the fact it’s gone unsold for so long makes it self-evident that the price is too high. No rocket science there. She did concede that the hardest part of her job is getting clients to price their house realistically for this market. I told her I’ve got all the time in the world for her clients to come around.
I know someone who is currently trying to sell a large house bought at the height of the market. The house has been on the market for 2 years with only one serious offer (and that person couldn’t qualify for a mortgage). I told this person basically what you said, the fact that it has been on the market for so long with no bids means it is over priced, it is just as simple as that.
Pricing this house realistically will mean either negotiating a short sale or bringing money to closing. Even if in the long run those options are better than incrementally cutting the price and trailing the market down, it would require a realistic evaluation of the situation. There are thousands of people out there like this who have yet to accept that the market has changed, they will accept it eventually but it is going to take years.
I love hearing about these types of “sellers”. They will ride the market all the way to the very bottom, losing everything. Greed’s good!
Sammy-
I don’t know if you knew this already, but I moved to COS a year ago from Chicago.
Real estate prices in Colorado Springs are borderline obscene. Easily 1/2 the housing market here is decrepit…and I don’t mean just south and east of Uintah and I-25.
The prices people want in Old North and all west side markets are at least double what they should be. All locales west of
I-25, north of Cimarron and south of say, Fillmore, are not worth anywhere near what people are asking. 2/1 abodes built in 1906 and on .10 acre lots aren’t worth $175,000. Sorry.
My favorite neighborhood in the area is older Rockrimmon. There, I can see paying $375K for a house. Old North? Forget it.
A 100-year-old house is a 100-year-old house. It knows nothing about being in a toney hood, no matter what any locals want to believe.
Eudemon,
I concur. The denial is strong here. The real estate section of the local fishwrap, the Gazette, is written entirely by “real estate professionals” of the “now is always the best time to buy” school of thought. California equity locusts and the payroll from five local military bases are doing a lot to prop up local housing prices, but local unemployment is bad and getting worse by the month, and the foreclosure rate just keeps rising.
I like Rockrimmon too, though I’ve wary of living in an area that sits on top of a lot of vacant mine shafts. But yes, most of the houses here, especially on the Old North End and Manitou Springs, are ridiculously overpriced. The central part of town here is getting more seedy every year, and yet the mansion-dwellers downtown seem oblivious to the rot that’s spreading just blocks away.
Colorado Springs was a blessing in disguise for me. When I first knew I was moving to Colorado Springs in Sept. 2005, my wife and I went to “the Springs” on a house hunting trip. I hadn’t sold my AZ house at the time, but since I was going to make so much money on my AZ house, my mindset was to look at only the good stuff in Springs. I showed up with a little swagger since I was real estate tycoon - after all I was living in a million dollar McMansion in AZ and it was going to sell in a day after multiple bids up. (right)
Fortunately, I listened to my wife and didn’t lock into any deals. We moved to Oregon for a temporary work assignment for a year and put our AZ (Chandler, 85249), house up for sale for $899,000 on Oct. 1, 2005. No bids for a month. Dropped the AZ house to 849,000. Almost had it sold for ~$825,000 in Feb, deal fell through since the buyer chose a diferent house. Finally, in April, we dropped the house to 749,000 and in May we recieved an offer for $650,000 and settled on $705,000. I was into the house about $470,000. I put money down to have it built in Feb. 2004 and moved into it Nov. of 2004. (Very lucky timing on my part, had no idea of the mania that was fortcoming. I also sold my house before final comitment to the deal and lived in a rental for 7 months.)
In July of 2006, my wife and I went back to Colarado Springs with a whole different mindset. We saw that houses do go down in price after dropping our price 200k in AZ. We lowballed on a couple of homes ($650,000 house we offered $450,000 which was still too much) and fortunately our offeres were rejected. We decided to rent for a while so we did’t make a stupid choice out of impatience. Then in Aug, 2006 I was shown the light when I read a CNN interview with some guy named Ben Jones and he had a housing “bubble” blog. I was hooked from that day on and have gladly rented ever since and continue to have a few hundred thousand in the bank. (Thankfully, I never used any money from HELOC). I was only in Colorado Springs a couple of months before moving back to Oregon, but I was ever so lucky to have not bought a home in Colorado Springs and give up my AZ “winnings” up there.
Truth be told, I am getting very tired of renting, but don’t see myself purchasing for a couple more years. I absolutely hate the housing in the Hillsboro, Beaverton, west Portland areas. Maybe it is the attitude more than anything, but also my disbelief of what these people are willing to pay $300k or more for.
I suspect the main issue is the break even point. There’s a natural pause at the point the house owner has to put money on the table to close the sale (to cover the loss).
Once they get there, there’s no real motivation anymore to sell, and the other options, short sale; foreclosure, will take a while. Which is not so much a case of conceding to reality, as reality conceding them.
Well, I don’t know. I’m about to phone my cousin Sherry and tell her to reduce the price of her house. The asking price is TWICE the mortgage amt, and she absolutely cannot afford to stay in the house. So why has she kept the price unchanged during five months of no offers and only two lookers? The excuse would be, Winter. Ain’t winter no more. Will report when I have had the conversation with her.
My experience has been even people who have room are having a hard time adjusting to the new realty. I have a family member who is in the process of selling a house, the house has no mortgage on it and there is still the attitude that he can dictate to people what is worth. It’s a hard concept for many to grasp that the seller doesn’t get to determine what his house is worth, it’s the buyers that do that.
Realtors are finally getting realistic because they are hungry for commissions. 6% or $410K is better than 6% of nothing.
My impression of the situation with my friend is that the realtors (there were two agents involved in this) knew that the house was over priced and basically begged my friend to make an offer. The message that came back to my friend from his agent, was maybe the offer would cause the seller’s to come to their senses.
Things are so bad here even a medical doctor (a radiologist) can’t find a job, even in Home Depot:
In Toledo, Downturn Empties Offices
White-Collar Workers Coping With Layoffs
By Peter Slevin
Sunday, May 10, 2009
TOLEDO — Rob Noonan’s friends think he’s a sucker. Laid off from his $140,000-a-year construction management job when the credit markets froze, he still shows up at work, one man working without pay in a cluster of vacant cubicles, trying to make something out of nothing.
While friends are mystified that he would toil for the developer who fired him after 16 years, Noonan figures voluntary work is his best path to a real job at real pay. And in an employment market this awful, he adds, “I really don’t have anything better to do.”
Noonan, 56, is a casualty of an economic crisis that has reached into the white-collar ranks, costing the jobs of thousands of executives, supervisors and office workers who never thought the paychecks would stop. Watching with disbelief and then despair as their comfortable lifestyles washed away, they are recalibrating their expectations in ways they never imagined.
……..
“When fear starts, bitterness kicks in,” said Noonan, whose neighbor, a radiologist, was rejected for a job at Home Depot. He described laid-off former colleagues as “mad at life. They’re at home, they’re mailing out résumés, and they’re miserable.”
“was rejected for a job at Home Depot”
Reee-jeck-shone
Being over-qualified is a real thing: employers know you’ll move on when you get the chance, so they don’t hire you.
This guy needs to leave Ohio. Somewhere, someone needs a radiologist.
Way back when I was in med school, I applied for waitressing jobs at several local restaurants. No one would hire me because I lacked any waitressing experience.
So–over or underqualified for that Home Depot job? Or would working with someone who had that much education make his co-workers uncomfortable?
I think you just have to know what to put on your resume/application and what to leave out.
“So–over or underqualified for that Home Depot job? Or would working with someone who had that much education make his co-workers uncomfortable?”
Naw, my point is — and I know this from a friend who runs a grocery store in Rochester– is that they don’t want to spend the time and money training someone who is destined to leave when things turn around.
I can’t speak for all of DJ’s experiences, but yes, he is right that many employers do want mindless drones.
There is no retail joint that will hire a radiologist.
Over-kwahl-ehh-fuh-kay-shone
they don’t want to spend the time and money training someone who is destined to leave when things turn around
This is something that keeps me for applying for a part-time job around here. It’d be great to work at a coffee shop or something, but I’d feel bad taking a job I know I’m going to leave the second I find a “real” job that fits my background. Not only am I putting an extra burden on the owner, but also taking the job from someone who possibly needs it “more”.
Not that I’m all saintly - not trying to make that assertion - but it is something I think about, and it keeps me uneasy about looking seriously at part-time jobs.
Or would working with someone who had that much education make his co-workers uncomfortable?
I would think the co-workers would be thrilled. Just think, when you’re all standing around in your canvas aprons, bored and with nothing to do because customers don’t gots the money for renovations anymore, why, once you were done with the idle gossiping you could all turn to Bob the ex-radiologist and take turns showing him your various deformities and interesting rashes! And he could judge which was the rarest defect, which was most contagious, etc., with little prizes as appropriate. And then offer medical advice, of course. That’s the best part.
Heck, maybe he could perform operations on the display granite counter-tops.
“Just what you need for your dream kitchen! You can even remove a spleen before dinner!’
Once again, you’re our bight and cherry little sick puppy this morning Olygal.
What, ’cause of the spleen removal on the display?
Nah—you’d wipe it down afterwards. Nice and tidy.
Unless that guy is networking from his cubicle, he’s nuts, because that’s what he should be doing. NEVER work for free unless it’s a favor to a friend or family or your own project. NEVER.
As for over or underqualified, it really all depends on whims. But the biggest problem is that the economy has tanked. Period. The sooner those who are unemployed realize this, the sooner they can grasp who and what caused this and start demanding some accountability.
Don’t worry Mr. Noonan
Wallstreet players will again be making record profits this year, so buck up.
Watch out for that HUD foreclosure site Ben has linked on the front page. There is some kind of UHS bot that tries to make you stay at the site when you would rather leave.
Thanks for the heads up PB, but I will click on it anyway and take my chances just to help Ben make some serious moolaa $$$.
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave
Joe walsh guitar solo
Eagles baby Eagles.
I’ll take funk49 first.
Dumb question of the day: Are there other scientific fields besides economics wherein scientists can routinely lie as part of their day-to-day occupation and not get disbarred from their professions?
Well, there’s always political science.
OK, then, let’s broaden the scope of my query to economics and closely related fields of social science.
The thing is, everyone pretty much expects politicians and those who serve them to routinely lie. By contrast, the economics profession has gone to great lengths to wrap their image in the mantle of earnest scientific endeavor.
I’d say that vocation was purer than some others, Dennis. Most are at universities, and yes, they do have agendas, but I wouldn’t put them in the “lying sacks of sh!t category.”
Political Scientists?
Fab-rick-ayy-shone
Yes. Research consulting in hard engineering and sometimes hard science. I know this from personal experience.
This is some how reassuring. For that matter, I guess I realize this from what little I know of the history of science. A very famous example is that of Gregor Mendel’s research assistant, who reported the results of his genetic experiments. The experimental results appeared to provide strong support for Mendel’s genetic hypothesis. Years later, Sir Ronald Fisher challenged the results, claiming the experimental results agreed too well with the hypothesis to be statistically likely. The controversy apparently continues to date:
Genetics, Vol. 166, 1139-1140, March 2004, Copyright © 2004
Revision of Fisher’s Analysis of Mendel’s Garden Pea Experiments
Charles E. Novitskia
a Department of Biology, Central Michigan University, Mount Pleasant, Michigan 48859
Physics and String Theory come to mind, not to mention cold fusion.
Cold fusion is being looked at again. 60 Minutes did a segment on this a couple of weeks ago. Pretty fascinating.
Nova also did a piece on it looks like it may happen someday.
Climatology. You can make the data say almost anything you want to say. I’m not alleging that most investigators aren’t serious. But there are also many whose reputation is being built on a single (positive or negative) thread of reasoning connected w/ the global warming question. Dick Lindzen (MIT) writes op-ed in the WSJ pretty often. He’s been arguing for years and years and years that CO2 doubling will dry the upper troposphere and therefore result in global cooling. Yawn.
Consider what a great job they do of predicting what the weather will be on the day after tomorrow!
You must not have gotten the memo. Now that the evidence is suspect on “global warming” you’re supposed to say climate crisis instead.
MD
Plant pathologists testifying in product liability trials.
I just went to an open house/contents sale. Even the little rugs around the toilets had price tags.
Maybe its just me, but that is nothing I want to buy used.
Call me fickle.
ficle ficle ficle
Yeah! Totally icky! Call me ‘fickle’ too. When IIIIIII go to garage sales I prefer to buy large boxes of great-grandma’s hand-embroidered linens for a dollar, or large boxes of leather-bound antique books with marbeled end-pages for a dollar, or unused and in the box pasta machines for a few bucks, or like the time I got a cardboard box packed full of hand-blown glass vases, swirled with glorious colors and speckles, carefully wrapped in tissue paper for 5 wholllllle ‘Merican dollars.
Stuff like that….not tin*kled-upon polyester toilet rugs.
*hops up and down in chair thinking about the vases, which I gave out as Christmas presents, receiving many thanks from the delighted recipients *
I am looking forward to the start up of garage sale season here, which oughtta be soon, now the rain has stopped. Garage sales here ROCK.
I also will be very interested to see if they change overall now that it’s no longer ‘different here’, with rapidly mounting NOD’s and foreclosures and steadily increasing unemployment hereabouts. In essence: will more people be dumping grandma’s antique tea-pot in the move to the MIL’s basement? Or will more people cling to grandma’s antique tea-pot because they can’t afford a new one? So to speak.
When I lived in Ky., an Appalachian waif from next door came by. Asked to borrow our toilet plunger. Feeling generous, I offered her one. Told her to keep it, had a yellow handle.
A month later, they offered it for sale at a yard sale.
Oh, and ‘m not dissing the mountain folks.
Friendly region.
A month later, they offered it for sale at a yard sale.
Wow. That’s funny! Well…sorta funny…also sad.
*studiously makes note to self to always avoid Appalachian yard sales, unless I ever need a used toilet plunger *
Oly…
I need to say that some months ago I directed words at you that were intemperate at best. I hadn’t quite gotten the hang of tone and context on this blog, a common challenge with Internet yakking. But I didn’t pause long enough… to mull… before hitting enter.
So I now… apologize.
Milkcrate
I need to say that some months ago I directed words at you that were intemperate at best.
Arr…?
You know what, I forgot what you said. But now, since you remind me, I am INCREDIBLY BITTER and TOTALLY ENRAGED. That’s right, Mr. Un-mully Hot-head!
*flounces out of room to go pout *
The waif or the toilet plunger?
Good question! And which one cost more? Because I would totally pay at least 50 cents for a decent waif.
….as long as it was a lightly-used waif, and had no major dents, that is.
Evil Rob had a bike. The bike was a cheap piece of tin that was forever throwing its chain, so we tossed it in one of the college dumpsters, making bets as to how long it would stay there. Sure enough, it was gone when we walked past later that day.
It too showed up at a garage sale about a month later— at a house about a mile from campus. We sometimes speculate that it’s been making the rounds ever since.
This is the sort of stuff I mean about heading in the wrong direction and falling back on the sytem that failed us:
‘ The White House told industry officials today that it is leaning toward recommending that the Federal Reserve become the supercop for “too big to fail” companies capable of causing another financial meltdown.’
‘According to officials who attended a private one-hour meeting between President Barack Obama’s economic advisers and representatives from about a dozen banks, hedge funds and other financial groups, the administration made it clear it was not inclined to divide the job among various regulators as has been suggested by industry and some federal regulators.’
“The idea of having a council of regulators was pretty much vetoed,” said one participant.’
‘The Fed itself hasn’t taken a position on whether it should have the job, although Chairman Ben Bernanke has said the Fed would have to be involved in any effort to identify and resolve systemwide risk. In a speech Thursday, Bernanke said that huge, globally interconnected financial firms whose failure could endanger the U.S. economy should be subject to “a robust framework for consolidated supervision.”
‘Naming the Fed as a kind of super regulator is likely to run into at least some resistance by other federal regulators and in Congress.’
The Fed is a private, for-profit organization that has never been publically audited.
All I can say is WTF…
All I can say is, GO RON PAUL!
H.R. 1207:
111th Congress
This is a bill in the U.S. Congress originating in the House of Representatives (”H.R.”). A bill must be passed by both the House and Senate and then be signed by the President before it becomes law.
Bill numbers restart from 1 every two years. Each two-year cycle is called a session of Congress. This bill was created in the 111th Congress, in 2009-2010.
The titles of bills are written by the bill’s sponsor and are a part of the legislation itself. GovTrack does not editorialize bill summaries.
2009-2010
Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009
To amend title 31, United States Code, to reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited by the Comptroller General of the United States and the manner in which such audits are reported, and for other purposes.
His son might be running for the Senate in Tennessee.
skroodle,
That would be Kentucky (my home state). Rand Paul stated on Friday that he’d make an announce this coming week.
Announce = announcement.
Sheesh.
My Ron Paul bumper sticker drew almost no comment during the election season, but NOW it gets lotsa beeps and thumbs-up gestures. By “now” I mean maybe past three months.
Yeah, I still get a lot of comments about my RP bumper sticker. I always reply back “hey, no one can blame me for this mess - I voted for Ron Paul”. It had greater effect when I still had my Texas plates, though.
Come to think of it, someone complimented me on my Ron Paul t-shirt the other day, too.
The absolutely BEST use of a political bumpersticker was in the Starwars spoof episode of Family Guy.
A massive evil Empire Battlecruiser is seen passing overhead just blasting away at the fleeing little Rebel ship. As this monster of the Dark Side continues to pass over, then draws away and continues in it’s pursuit you see a “BUSH/CHENEY 2004″ bumpersticker on the a$$end of it.
I had a RP sticker before the election, and my current one is: “Don’t blame me, I voted for Ron Paul”
http://www.ronpaul.com/ron-paul-store/ron-paul-bumper-stickers/
I’ve only gotten one comment though.
During the election I joined fellow Ron Paul supporters at local intersections, showing our support. The people who reacted most favorably were the young, outdoors looking types. Those who were wasting their vote on McCain or Obama just drove past with the empty-eyed vacuousness you would expect from that particular class of voters.
I get the feeling that a fair number of the Obama True Believers are starting to get a dim perception that they were sold a bill of goods, though they lack the intelligence to recognize the full magnitude of what a disaster he’s going to be. Of course, McCrazy would’ve been an even worse choice.
“All I can say is, GO RON PAUL!”
I agree Bear. I put some dough in his campaign coffers during the election. Probably makes me a terrorist though.
At least in Missouri it does :/
An Oligarchy (Greek Ὀλιγαρχία, Oligarkhía) is a form of government where power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society distinguished by royal, wealth, family, military or religious hegemony. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for “few” (ὀλίγος olígos) and “rule” (ἀρχή arkhē). Such states are often controlled by politically powerful families whose children are heavily conditioned and mentored to be heirs of the power of the oligarchy.[citation needed] Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist. Although Aristotle pioneered the use of the term as a synonym for rule by the rich, for which the exact term is plutocracy, oligarchy is not always a rule by wealth, as oligarchs can simply be a privileged group. Some city-states from Ancient Greece were oligarchies.
Some city-states from Ancient Greece were oligarchies.
They were all oligarchies, or worse. In those city-states only some of the men had a say in the government, women and slaves did not. The electorate in the Athens of Socrates’ time was a bigger chunk of the population than the “electorate” of the Sparta of his time, but both were oligarchies.
Some say the USA is now an oligarchy.
Generally there’s not as much wrong with an oligarchy for a city of a few thousand people, since the ratio of rulers to people is fairly small. There is something very wrong with an oligarchy in a country of 300 million people. In reality most of the greek city-states I believe were republics - it’s where that system of government came from; though that doesn’t mean they weren’t also oligarchies (witness the USA which is technically a republic but in reality more an oligarchy).
Women and slaves didn’t have the right to vote most places until the 20th century. In many places they still don’t. I wouldn’t consider a place an “oligarchy” just because women and slaves can’t vote. That doesn’t make it right, but it also doesn’t make it an oligarchy.
I wouldn’t consider a place an “oligarchy” just because women and slaves can’t vote.
You haven’t convinced me. There is far too much unthinking admiration for old-time systems of government. The biggest advance in the last 1000 years has been moving toward government by consent of the governed and the abolition of slavery. The two are related.
“All I can say is WTF…”
Ben, I love it when you swear, even if only in acronym form!
and all I can say is WFT??!!
(is that still swearing?)
(is that still swearing?)
It certainly doesn’t translate, “gee willikers, that there baffles me!”
Muggy,
I like your translation better.
Muggy,
I agree with SanFran. So I’m going to say it alllll day long!
Starting….now!
“Gee willikers, that there baffles me!”
GWTTBM!
Once, a long time ago, Ben said ‘Damn’. I remember that, because I was so shocked that I leaped up from my chair and shouted ‘Heaven’s Bitsy!’ in amazement. Wow, what a total potty-mouth!
)
(Hahahaah! Now, you know I’m teasing yer, Ben.
Oh, but Muggy, keep in mind day before yesterday, in Thursdays bits buckets, where we learned that the Boss disapproves of blasphemy before lunch.
I don’t know Ben’s position on blasphemy AFTER lunch, or in emergencies…
The Boss - chuckles.
More like the cool guy with a huge den-like warm suite, with the most confortable chairs in the world.
Ben says, “Pull up a chair and sit a spell!”
Leigh
Ben says, “Pull up a chair and sit a spell!”
Yeah, yeah — like Ogre in Revenge of the Nerds, ripping a huge bong hit, then pondering aloud, “what if C_A_T really spells dog?”
The clash of Thunder sounds and Bolts of Lightning streak wickedly through the CyberSky, merely as a gentle reminder to Olygal, that she dangles happily by a well worn and frayed piece of cheap STRING above the abyss…as usual.
But the view is best here….
*cranes neck to look further into the abyss *
ROTFLMAO
What are alternatives to this approach.
Well Ben, there you have it. All the conspiracy cranks were right after all.
No way should the Fed EVER have regulatory powers. If they get that kind of authority, it’s game over. The USA will cease to exist.
We have far too many policies, laws and social conventions based strictly upon economics as it is. If the Fed is given these powers, they will rapidly expand them and our country will exist SOLEY as a plutocracy and every principle of the Constitution will be gutted.
We’re too close as it is.
I guess the cat that couldn’t drink all the water in your pool turned out to be a herd of elephants.
Until there is utter catastrophe, with sustained 25% unemployment (for example), and people actually going hungry, I don’t see signficant changes in the system.
Can someone enlighten me as to what a broker would do with bank deposits? Are they refering to money market accounts?
US regulators shut down 33rd bank this year
NEW YORK (AP) — Federal regulators on Friday shut down Westsound Bank of Bremerton, Wash., making it the 33rd bank to fail this year.
It had total assets of $334.6 million as of March 31, and total deposits of $304.5 million.
Kitsap Bank will assume Westsound’s deposits, except for the roughly $9.4 million managed by brokers. The FDIC said customers who placed money with brokers should contact the brokers directly.
Kitsap will also buy $49.3 million of Westsound’s assets. The FDIC will keep the remaining assets to sell later. The cost to the U.S. deposit insurance fund will be $108 million.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-regulators-shut-down-33rd-apf-15191760.html
Can someone enlighten me as to what a broker would do with bank deposits?
Perhaps they provided brokerage services as well?
At some point in the not-too-distant past, any cash balance in my Merrill Lynch account that was NOT explicitly destined for a particular MM fund would be held in the “blah blah blah Bank Deposit Program.” Didn’t pay too much attention, but there may have been some actual bank (outside of ML) involved this arrangement. Maybe the Westsound Bank was holding that kind of stuff.
These deposits were aparently not covered by FDIC so I wonder if the deposits held by these brokers will be wiped out or not?
I think they are talking about CD brokers, not stock brokers. CD brokers take large deposits and broker into multiple banks to spread around the risk. In such cases they are called brokered CDs and some question linger as to what kind of FDIC protection exists for such accounts.
some question linger as to what kind of FDIC protection exists for such accounts.
I think, in that case, the major question for the FDIC is, who owns each sub-account? That make not appear on the books of the failed bank except as a huge balance of CDs held in trust by the broker.
I found some info. about CD brokers on the SEC website and it says nothing about FDIC covering them. I guess one has to do their own background check on the brokers before placing your money with them, as it says the profession is ladened with fraud. It still makes me wonder if those depositors will lose their money?
Fraud? Why I’m shocked I tell you! Just shocked!
Real Unemployment at 15.8%: Highest Level Since ADA Began Tracking
WASHINGTON - May 8 - The real unemployment rate released today by the Bureau of Labor Statistics is 15.8%, nearly 7 points higher than the rate officially reported.
The real rate includes marginally attached workers which the BLS reports “are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the recent past. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not looking currently for a job. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule.”
Since April 2008, 6 million people have lost their job. ADA’s Real Rate of Unemployment represents a staggering 23 million people who are unemployed or underemployed.
The increase of another 563,000 jobless claims for April 2009 was the smallest rise in 6 months, providing some evidence that government stimulus is working but underscoring the urgent need to put more government dollars to work motivating the private sector to begin hiring laid-off workers.
ADA National Director, Amy Isaacs, said: “While the Republican Party of No is looking backwards, rather than coming up with new ideas to help America’s working families, President Obama and Democrats in Congress are moving forward with a bold agenda. There is still much to do as record lay-offs continue and economic challenges abound, but we share the optimism of leading economists who believe the worst is behind us.”
ADA is America’s most experienced independent liberal lobbying organization. In the spirit of the New Deal and ADA founders Eleanor Roosevelt, renowned economist John Kenneth Galbraith, and former Senator and Vice President Hubert Humphrey we lobby through coalition partnerships, through direct advocacy, and through the media.
Rule no. 1 of statistical manipulation: If you don’t like the results, change the methodology.
This rule of obfuscation also applies well to accounting. Why mark-to-market if mark-to-myth is an option?
15%
Wow.
How could anyone possibly take stress test results seriously?
Big Banks Won Concessions on Tests
The Fed significantly scaled back the size of the capital hole facing big banks, after intense bargaining over the stress tests’ stringency.
Darn you just beat me to it.
Actually I already posted on this last evening…
Not that we don’t know the stress test was rigged, but today’s WSJ gives the low down on how banks got the Fed to lower the “capital requirements” after the original results were revealed:
“By DAVID ENRICH, DAN FITZPATRICK and MARSHALL ECKBLAD
The Federal Reserve significantly scaled back the size of the capital hole facing some of the nation’s biggest banks shortly before concluding its stress tests, following two weeks of intense bargaining.
In addition, according to bank and government officials, the Fed used a different measurement of bank-capital levels than analysts and investors had been expecting, resulting in much smaller capital deficits.
The overall reaction to the stress tests, announced Thursday, has been generally positive. But the haggling between the government and the banks shows the sometimes-tense nature of the negotiations that occurred before the final results were made public.
Government officials defended their handling of the stress tests, saying they were responsive to industry feedback while maintaining the tests’ rigor.
When the Fed last month informed banks of its preliminary stress-test findings, executives at corporations including Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc. and Wells Fargo & Co. were furious with what they viewed as the Fed’s exaggerated capital holes. A senior executive at one bank fumed that the Fed’s initial estimate was “mind-numbingly” large. Bank of America was “shocked” when it saw its initial figure, which was more than $50 billion, according to a person familiar with the negotiations.
At least half of the banks pushed back, according to people with direct knowledge of the process. Some argued the Fed was underestimating the banks’ ability to cover anticipated losses with revenue growth and aggressive cost-cutting. Others urged regulators to give them more credit for pending transactions that would thicken their capital cushions.”
Ho hum, another case made for going to cash.
And I see this as an example of why not to be in cash.
Between us, we have ourselves a microcosm of a market.
Here is the used home on the MLS for our zip code with the median list price ($1.58 m), which is $458K above the most recent median used SFR sales price ($700K) reported by DataQuick. Something tells me there is a shortage of buyers currently in the market for $1m+ luxury villas. It may not help that the Witch Creek fire passed within a few hundred yards of this development.
16924 SIMPLE MELODY LANE, SD - Rancho Bernardo, CA 92127**
School District: POWAY UNIFIED
Beds: 4 Type: SFR Sq. Ft.: 3,102 Lot Size: N/A MLS #: 090002753
Baths: 4/0 Built: 2007 $/Sq.Ft.: $373 List Date: 01/14/09 On Market: 115 days
Fabulous laing luxury villa in the prestigious gated community of the crosby at rancho santa fe! This villa is a short walk to the sports center where you can play a quick game of tennis, enjoy an invigorating workout or relax by the luxurious pool. This villa offers all the amenities and upgrades including wide-plank hardwood flooring, travertine flooring, custom window treatments, hand-troweled wall treatment, fabulous textured carpet, gourmet stainless kitchen appliances & more.(see more in supplement
ZipRealty Price Track
Price Reduced: 02/27/09 — $1,299,000 to $1,268,888
Price Reduced: 03/07/09 — $1,268,888 to $1,099,000
Price Increased: 03/08/09 — $1,099,000 to $1,158,000
I don’t get that 3/7-3/8 pricing zig zag; can someone explain the point?
Seller bought this in late 2007 for $1.176 in the throes of San Diego’s worst housing decline on record. Seller then had the bright idea to wait until the decline accelerated and list for $1.299. And you say it is near a recent burn area too? Maybe they are seeing green shoots and thinking it is a sign from the heavens to think big!
Not so sure there is any purposeful reasoning or data driving this pricing. From a sociological/entertainment perspectsive though, I would love to be a fly on the wall in that household.
BTW, I could not get the link for Radar’s approach to data gathering to come through, but there is a “Methodology” tab on the website that has the specifics.
There is a white paper here:
www dot radarlogic dot com slash methodology dot html
I hope they have not copyrighted maximum likelihood estimation, as I use it all the time in day job.
I know this isn’t the case anymore, but as originally developed in the 60s/70s, RB still conjers a place where only seniors live Lots of white rock front yards and golf carts. So, it’s hard for me to imagine these kind of posh homes.
If you are in SD, take a drive on I-15 to Camino Del Norte, then head east until it turns into Camino Del Sur. You will get the full picture in no time, as you will be surrounded by thousands of tract homes built in the middle of nowhere over the past ten years.
My parents were looking at property in RB in mid 90s for retirement. They were from St. Louis, where golf course cart paths are the size of normal paved cart paths, not the size of city streets as they are in S. California.
While driving around looking at RB homes, my father drove onto what appeared to be a side street. In reality it was a golf cart path that led around the back of the golf clubhouse where all the locals were Sunday brunching on the patio. Mom reported lots of pointing, hushed whispers and staring. No matter how educated, worldly or sophisticated your parents are, most people have a funny and endearing Beverly Hillbillies parent moment to laugh about. They are both gone, but still cracks me up every I think of it.
Saw a little old lady on video recently. It was at a wedding and someone was passing around a microphone for people to offer words of wisdom and encouragement for the new couple.
The little old lady leaned into the mike and said “I’ll have chicken and potatoes”.
MD
Cute story, Don’t Know.
Sorry to hear about your parents’ passing. Hopefully, you got to spend plenty of quality time with them during their retirement years.
Thanks CA.
When they finally settled in Laguna Hills, I put everything in storage and moved in with them. I was renting in the SF bay area at the time and contract consulting, so I could pretty much live anywhere. Although I could not believe my actions, it just “felt” right. Although both were in perfect health at the time, three years later, they were both gone. I had many great times with them during those years.
On the subject of Zillow, are they gaining any credibility with HBB’rs?
I’m seeing a little refinement in Z-estimates happening in my WEST LOS ANGELES community of Culver City CA.
My duplex in CC is on a nice big 7800 sf lot in a really good tree-lined street. Zillow had it at 1m high-water back in ‘06. Now we average $650k z-stimate up and down the street all identical 50’s built duplexes.
Avg rent per unit prolly is 1,800 * 2 units * 120 multiple = $432k
we’re off by only 220k.
I got an email from zillow saying that the house I sold last November for $220k is now worth “only” $240k (it’s down 1% over the past 30 days).
I can’t say I place much faith in them as a result. Apparently the actual sale of the home to an independent 3rd party doesn’t carry enough weight in the actual “value” of the house?
Price per square foot deflation strikes at Foreclosure Ranch. Note that though this home undoubtedly is one of the first four bedroom homes in the neighborhood offered below $500K and at a price per square foot far below recent comps, it sits unsold after two months on the market. It has to compete with other 4 br homes nearby listed for under $400K.
16815 SAINTSBURY, SD - Rancho Bernardo, CA 92127** Short Sale
Neighborhood: Rancho Penasquitos School District: POWAY UNIFIED
Beds: 4 Type: SFR Sq. Ft.: 2,188 Lot Size: N/A MLS #: 090015240
Baths: 3/0 Built: 2004 $/Sq.Ft.: $228 List Date: 03/12/09 On Market: 58 days
Nearby homes recently sold:
Address Beds/Baths Sq.Ft. Year Built DateSold Distance
(miles) SalePrice Price/Sq. Ft.
16937 HUTCHINS LNDG 3/3 1,450 0 11/13/08 0.43 $370,000 $255
16956 LAUREL HILL LN 2/2 1,068 2007 01/28/09 0.48 $303,500 $284
16910 BIXBY ST 3/3 1,450 2006 02/05/09 0.48 $370,000 $255
OK, Renfield, as promised, here is some peak-trough data on the history of the T-bond spread. The values shown below represent the local extrema of the spread over time:
Date 3-mo 30-yr Spread
4/28/1977 4.39 7.76 3.37
3/26/1980 15.93 12.56 -3.37
6/12/1980 6.20 9.6 3.40
12/8/1980 16.53 12.42 -4.11
4/2/1981 12.58 12.8 0.22
5/22/1981 16.68 13.36 -3.32
12/9/1981 10.38 13.39 3.01
2/17/1982 14.47 14.3 -0.17
8/26/1982 7.14 12.31 5.17
6/9/1989 8.22 8.15 -0.07
1/23/2002 1.68 5.48 3.80
3/13/2007 4.94 4.66 -0.28
11/18/2008 0.12 4.14 4.02
- The most interesting period represented in this data was from 1977 through 1982, when volatility due to Volcker’s inflation eradication program drove the spread up and down in short succession between the extremes of -4.11 and 5.17. The graph of the spread time series which I produced resembles a seismograph during a great earthquake over this period.
- Extreme negative values of the spread (3/26/1980, 12/8/1980, 5/22/1981, 2/17/1982, 6/9/1989, 3/13/2007) serve well as either leading or contemporaneous indicators of recessionary conditions, as they represent the condition known as “yield curve inversion” (long-term Treasury yields below the short-term T-bill yield).
- The absolute levels of T-bond and T-bill yields peaked in the early-1980s episode, and have subsequently trended down to generational lows, portending a secular bear market in Treasurys.
One more thing: I just checked the 3-mo T-bill yield data all the way back to 1954, and the recent levels are the lowest over the entire period, which encompasses my entire lifetime and then some.
T-Bill Glut Crowds Out Equity
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/101617
That money would go into commodities or under the mattresses if it didn’t go into treasuries. Very little real businesses worth investing in at the moment.
Yep, and I’m beginning to wonder if we are going to see oil spike back up this summer like it did last year? especially with the damage being done to the dollar right now.
I’m beginning to wonder if we are going to see oil spike back up Me too. However I suspect oil sales will fall rapidly should that happen. Prices around here went from $2 a gallon to $2.45 in the last 2 weeks. I adjusted my bicycle chain & cut back on nonessential travel, once more. The airline business would probably suffer even more than it is now.
Laid-off Amish tighten suspenders and may compromise principles to accept unemployment compensation.
Quote of the day:
“Most people say they’re tightening their belts. Well, we don’t use belts, so I guess we can say we’re tightening up our suspenders and rolling up our sleeves and going to work,” Chupp said.
Reminds me of a Simpson’s episode where Ned Flander’s house is destroyed and it turns out the don’t have insurance because “its too much like gambling”.
May 9 (Bloomberg) — Retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker and former Securities and Exchange Commission chief Arthur Levitt are among those being considered by congressional leaders to head a probe of the financial crisis, according to people with knowledge of the matter.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=apuGP0Cp.XrI&refer=home
It’s about time…
Ben –
Many thanks for sending the his-and-hers HBB tee shirts. I am wearing mine now — it fits well and looks good, and I am fairly itching to get out in public and take in the looks of puzzlement on the faces of fellow San Diegans who read it.
Good night John Boy, Good night Mary Ellen, Good night HBB.
I have found the HBB to be extremely informative and unique in its ability and tendency to coalesce and crystallize the frustrations and feelings of many who seemed to have no voice in the MSM.
I once took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
If you now, or have ever served in the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, FBI, Intelligence Services, or local or State law enforcement, or simply believe that the U.S. Constitution should be defended and protected against all enemies, foreign and domestic, you may be interested in learning about Oath Keepers. This is a group that lists Ten Orders they will NOT obey, if given.
link: http://www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com/
To the question, “And how does this relate to the Housing Bubble?” I give this answer - wherever you live, your home may be become subject to new legislation, taxes, or other government programs or actions.
Thanks for posting that, it’s the first I’d heard of it. I’d encourage you to post it again early on Monday so everyone sees it.
It’s interesting you bring this up, cobaltblue. I recently dated a woman in the Navy, and once engaged her in a conversation about the oath, and whether she (as an officer) consciously considers that she has sworn to uphold the constitution, which may very well be at odds with an order she might be given. I also asked about her feeling of whether those she works with ever consider such a conflict.
I find that’s a difficult conversation to have without inadvertently offending someone (I’m not sure what prompted me to broach this subject pretty early in the relationship, but we dated for a while after so I guess I didn’t offend her too badly), but it’s interesting to hear what one might do in that situation, what they think their responsibility is as far as passing judgment on whether an order is constitutional/legal, etc.
I certainly don’t claim to have the answers, and have never served so I can’t relate to being in a command structure like that. Honestly, with how idealistic (and libertarian I am), I don’t think I’d last very long :O
It’s good to see that there are those who take that oath and our freedoms very seriously. It’s an interesting philosophical issue, as technically only the government (Supreme Court) can tell us what the Constitution really means…heck, even on this blog there are quite divergent readings of the meaning and intent.
“And how does this relate to the Housing Bubble?”
More than a few times, many posters here have pointed out here the problem of the Fed evolving into one of the most influential institutions in U.S. governance, despite not being subject to the checks and balances built by the framers into the U.S. constitution.
Agree with Carl.
Please post this on Monday morning.
Good site and very interesting read via their link to the DHS document. Scary, if you ask me.
A couple of years ago I felt pretty alone posting out here about incipient too-big-to-fail bailouts for members of the Megabank, Inc cartel. Tonight the leading skit on Saturday Night Live made a mockery of the banking stress tests, and even mentioned “too-big-to-fail” in a laugh line. We’ve come a long way, babeeeeeeeeeee!!!
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