Bits Bucket For May 11, 2009
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.
There has been a noticable drop in housing inventory lately reported on numerous blogs like Piggingtons. Additionally, I noticed the REO listings nationwide at Countryfried have been cut in half. Thus, the big question arises of when does the true firesale begin when all this shadow inventory is dumped on the market? For one more Spring, the Pigmen are drawing the dwindling pool of suckers into the vanishing game.
The positive is that the people who are overbidding the current supply of REOs can actually afford them because they are still half the price of what they were four years ago. The real idiots are those in the “better” neighborhoods who are still paying 2004 prices because they believe “it’s different here.” Those prices will fall eventually - but it’s annoying to wait. That’s another difference between this bubble and the last one; in the nineties prices fell uniformly and everything was done falling within four years.
“The positive is that the people who are overbidding the current supply of REOs can actually afford them because they are still half the price of what they were four years ago.”
I don’t think so! We are just getting a second round of debt servicer’s. No money left spend to enjoy life. Those here in Salinas really believe that they’ll be priced out if they don’t buy now.
Hi Salinasron: Yes, you have a different situation in Salinas than we do here in Sacramento. Here it is possible to get a decent house in a decent neighborhood for $150,000. Just yesterday I saw a nice 3 bedroom/2 bathroom foreclosure for asking price $99,000. The agent said that they had offers over asking price but I bet it will sell for less than $150,000. In your neck of the woods people are jumping in to by $400,000 foreclosures - yikes!
First to rise, first to fall.
The house we just bought is a little more than that (uh, the $150K, not the $400K), but it’s still less than 3x Evil Rob’s income. (Mine doesn’t count; we figured that was a safer way to calculate. ONE income should buy the house, so that if something goes wrong the other income can step in.)
The green shoots are making more and more FBs think they can wait it out. At this point there is simply no way to know when sentiment (popular not Wall St.) will shift again. Maybe a long slow summer will do it, then again maybe not.
This is looking to me now like its going to be a very, very, very long drawn-out process - like on the order of 10-15 years before the housing bubble itself is wrung out.
I was looking at mortgage debt data the other day, and am building an interesting graph that I’ll post soon. Bottom line is that even though housing prices are now down about 60% or so off their bubble highs (delta between peak and “normal” prices), mortgage debt itself still only down about 10%, if that. Until we get mortgage debt down to a reasonable level - it will continue to drag down home prices.
Home prices are are going to overshoot on the downside - and badly. (Caveat - I’m talking relative to inflation)
“Home prices are are going to overshoot on the downside - and badly. (Caveat - I’m talking relative to inflation)”
I agree.
But the bears here have a problem.
The problem for the bears is that with high leverage of 3.5% down payment, a flipper can still make money.
And it gets better; with a fixed 30 year old mortgage, you do well.
Stick cash on TIPS and if the inflation call pans out, you win all over the place, (1)on the house, (2)on the fixed and (3)on the TIPS.
Therefore, though I agree with you packman (and disagree with combo and FPSS) it is easy for me to embrace the idea of the equivalent of a cheap option on a house.
“And it gets better; with a fixed 30 year old mortgage, you do well.”
The math does not work on that in what promises to be a long drawn out decline in house prices.
Skye,
It all depends on how the market goes long term. I believe there are deals all over the country. However, I’d say that some of the biggest bubbles are still in form. SoCal is still a big bubble. SF bay area too. San Jose area as well.
I’m guessing prices are still too high in parts of Florida but not really tracking that. Even beachfront was cheap there for a long time. There are 1400 miles (or so) of it in Florida alone. Enough for 8 million odd beach front places.
Fed policy and treasury policy can be big wild cards. Anyhow, its clear there are substantial risks to proceeding in the real estate market.
3.5% Down payment and some quick repairs is probably not going to get you the easy money of yesteryear. I’d guess that by the end of the summer it gets you 12-15$/hr tops.
Congress already is doing things to tighten appraisal rules so expect that since few people will qualify, prices will force their way down.
Time line varies based on incentives/accounting tricks. I am not even going to blink about waiting another three years in this market.
Stick cash on TIPS and if the inflation call pans out, you win all over the place, (1)on the house, (2)on the fixed and (3)on the TIPS.
Doesn’t that depend on whether or not the CPI is properly calculated?
Nope Blue, you have not the math.
Math works out just fine.
Many here, even those that believe in deflation, have pointed out that in a high inflationary, fixed debt is a winner.
Moreover, you missed the main point; it’s a 3% +- option.
It’s leveraged.
Try the math out using nice round numbers, you’ll get the idea.
It all depends on the price drops vs. inflation.
If after 10 years we have a total of 100% inflation, but home prices have dropped 50%, then you’ve gained nothing by that fixed-rate loan. You would have been much better off investing - even unleveraged - in some other inflation hedge.
If the next 10 years see a subsequent 100% more inflation, and that includes home prices rising 100% as well, and if you’ve held onto your loan for that long - then yeah you come out ahead. However as the loan gets paid off you lose your leverage, so you don’t really come out that far ahead, especially again compared with other inflation hedges.
In reality in a hyperinflation scenario - geopolitical events, including large tax changes, tend to overwhelm standard investment norms. In this case - personally, aside from the current price downtrend, I’m leery of real estate investments as an inflation hedge for two reasons:
1. Property tax rates are shooting up in many places
2. I think there’s a decent chance basic property rights will change at some point, if the SRHTF. (R=Really)
P’man, Do you know if the graph data retires mortgage debt as homes are foreclosed. Prices are easy to see falling in almost real time, but I would want to make sure they are also retiring the mortgage debt that goes away as the foreclosure happens in order to get the proper view of what the real ratio is.
That’s a *really* good question actually, and one that I don’t have an answer too. It may not actually be public data even.
The data I’m using is the Federal Reserve z1 data - specifically mortgage debt.
I would assume that at some point foreclosure write-offs *have* to subtract from that number, but being that these write-offs are very complex I’m not sure when it happens. Presumably yes there is some lag. However - and maybe this is a bit of a leap - I’m thinking that the fact that the data still shows a very high level of debt (relative to lots of measures - GDP, inflation + population, etc.) means that it hasn’t actually been written off yet. This is borne out by the fact that there was about a $5 Trillion bubble in in mortgage debt, and we have yet to have more than a few hundred billion at most actually written off by the banks, from what I’ve seen in news reports.
This is also borne out by the census data “homeowners equity” statistic which was down to 43% as of 2008 Q4.
In summary there’s lots of data that point to there being a very large lag between home price drops and debt unwind. Each piece of data has its own question marks, but in total I think that’s what it points to. And it makes sense.
Man - so I had a really long response but got an error when I posted - hopefully it’ll show up at some point - I really don’t feel like typing it again. If it doesn’t I may do it again.
Ha! It did show up. Cool.
When in doubt, hit the ‘back’ button, find the post you were responding to, and click the “reply” text (make sure nothing’s selected if you’re using my plugin), and the old text should still be there in the form.
I have a *horrible* connection here (using my cell phone as a modem - cost savings, dontcha know), and have this issue repeatedly.
The day that web browsers started remembering the scroll position and web form data in the history was a good day, IMO.
P’man, thanks for the answer twice :-).
I am not doubting the conclusion at all. I was just looking to see a number for extinguished debt that is accurate. As you point out, it is hard to get a decent number, though the trend is obvious. I figured “write-downs” were pure bank created fiction, but “write-offs” that resulted from an actual foreclosure would be easier to find and harder to manipulate. When the gavel comes down at foreclosure, the secured mortgage debt goes away. Wait there is GAP rule x.x(x) which I am sure most provide for that…. Thanks again.
I’m not so sure about the amount of overshoot. The lows are set not by owner/occupiers or specuvesters but by intentional landlords. They don’t count on RE appreciation to make up for negative cashflow. Now in areas where there has been alot of overbuilding, rents will decline greatly (in real terms), but I’m not sure that I’d call that overshooting per se. The problem for all those flippers trying to hang on is that we’re unlikely to see any real appreciation for a decade or more. If inflation really takes off, higher mortgage rates will put a damper on house prices like it did in the late 70s/early 80s.
+1 Until some clarity on the inflation front is reached intentional landlords will sit on the side. I think this will take awhile.
Agree. I would consider being an intentional landlady, but ever since I had the dough, it has made more sense to rent out the money than to rent out the property.
Edgewater, did you see my post(did it show up?) yesterday.
1496 Foster went 25k over asking. built in 1892 or 6. Refurb. Nice.
I know that neighborhood well.
1469 W. Foster: 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 car parking, no square footage listed
* Sold in January 1990 for $200,000
* Was listed in March 2008 for $324,500
* Multiple offers
* Sold for $350,000
* Taxes of $4,087
* Central Air
* Decorative fireplace
* Bedroom #1: 16×10
* Bedroom #2: 13×8
* Bedroom #3: 12×9
* Bedroom #4: 9×7
The firesale has already begun, bulk REO sales to investors.
What does an investor do with a home that does not pencil out as a rental, while he waits for the market to bottom out and come back in the next wave of inflation? And where does said investor get the financing to gamble on buying residential property when it does not pencil out as a rental? I know there are lots and lots of rich folks out there, but…
In the last NY downturn a friend of mine worked for a RE manager who was also an investor. He bought a block of occupied apartments from the sponsor in a West Village co-op (for something like $15,000 total). They had elderly rent controlled tenants in place, some paying less than $200/month which was less than the monthly building fees. Apparently he was able to offset losses in the context of his overall business and made a tidy profit when the tenants died.
That sounds like the plot to a CSI-New York episode.
Yep… but note contrast in the rents:
Free market as per NY Times April 2008
“Consider that the average monthly rent for a one-bedroom in the Village is more than $3,100 and that the average for a studio is just over $2,200. Or that the average rent for a one-bedroom in a doorman building anywhere in Manhattan is close to $3,500.” (though have heard these have softened)
And legally limited rents as Per the NYC rental guidelines board…
The median monthly contract rent of rent-controlled units was $721 in 2008, a substantial 19-percent increase from 2005, when it was $606 after adjusting for inflation
The median monthly contract rent of rent-stabilized units was $925 in 2008, little changed from 2005, when it was $929 after inflation adjustment
It was a movie with Ben Stiller & Drew Barrymore called Duplex. Not that good a movie though.
Always remember house prices are based on the total rent roll and if your rents are limited the price of the building goes DOWN.
If the landlord had been able to charge market rents the price of the building would have been so far out of his reach to buy.
Its like an easement or a building restriction on a property….nothing more or less and you agree by its terms or just don’t buy the property.
——————–
The median monthly contract rent of rent-controlled units was $721 in 2008, a substantial 19-percent increase from 2005, when it was $606 after adjusting for inflation
“What does an investor do with a home that does not pencil out as a rental, while he waits for the market to bottom out and come back in the next wave of inflation? And where does said investor get the financing to gamble on buying residential property when it does not pencil out as a rental? ”
They rent it anyway and buy themselves a few more months/years. I am seeing this right now with a couple I know. I figure their rent is about $400/mo. short of PITI…
I’m seeing this happen with a number of people I know, too. Rent won’t cover their monthly nut, but close enough that they can afford to hang onto a property. So they lose a couple hundred clams a month waiting for something to happen. You can be dang sure that these holding costs are rarely factored in when someone reports selling their property without a loss.
On the other hand, we have a friend who became a de facto landlord with an interesting strategy — she rents out her former house (two separate big floors plus a super-cheap basement for bohemian slacker types) only to pet owners, preferably multiple dog owners. She herself has three large dogs, and she knows how hard it can be to find affordable, pet-friendly housing with a big backyard. The end result is that she’s never been lacking for grateful tenants, and covers her expenses well.
I guess if our real estate market turns out the way Japan’s did in the 1990-2009 period, lots of the bottom-fisher investors are going to lose their shirts?
“landlord with an interesting strategy”
There is this old lady in St. Pete who is always featured on the news… she runs a sex offender-friendly mobile home park and the place is packed.
LOL. I only peed on a transformer behind some back-lot. Now I’m scarred for life thanks to the police showing up. It was bad luck and one too many beers.
Muggy,
Case in point right there. Here’s my worry, why even bother to innovate or even break a sweat at this juncture? There are SO MANY totally f’d RE infestors out there any angle you could possibly conjure up will result in 10,000 “me too” infestors jumping on your band wagon before you can say indecent exposure.
We’ve seen a nudist angle, why not “Bikerz Only!” that’d be pretty cool… huh? We could have designated Hog Parking and… argh, what’s the point.
Hmm, let’s list ‘em all:
RV friendly
Clothing optional
Sex offender friendly
Swingers
55+
55+ no kids
Gay
Religious
Big dog friendly
artist enclave
Golfing
Muggy,
Right, and then we’ll have up against the wall infestors saying “If “clothing optional” works well in Florida why not North Dakota?”
This thing just keeps sloshing around back and forth and each and every inefficiency ( however slight ) is perceived as the next windfall/rolling bubble/momentum play.
Professor Bear rightfully wonders where the money will come from to fulfill these fantasies but ‘my’ question is; when are they going to run out of energy for this manic pursuit?
“‘my’ question is; when are they going to run out of energy for this manic pursuit?”
DinOR, you’ve obviously never partied in a 55+ big dog friendly community for RV-owning sex offenders.
hahahaha, muggy you have a way of phrasing that…you’ve obviously never partied in a 55+ big dog friendly community for RV-owning sex offenders.
Muggy,
LOL! Yes, it makes having a ‘brew’ at the neighborhood bar-b-que seem almost tame by comparison doesn’t it?
Personally, “I” blame damned Craigslist ( not for ‘that’ ) but with all that access to FREE advertising it just makes it seem like there actually IS an active RE market out there!
If REIC-wannabe’s were forced to PAY for advertising their twisted little pipe dreams it would undoubtedly be the last straw! They just couldn’t handle all the neg. cash flow, debt service AND taking out pay ads.
“hahahaha, muggy you have a way of phrasing that…”
Thanks DD, I fully embrace the Dave Barry / Carl Hiaasen depraved indifference to the Florida experience.
PB,
I won’t argue that for an instant. However at this point, what we unfortunately have is wave after wave of FB’s/flippers that very desperately need a project or development that will… pencil out.
Since their lives are freaking RUINED anyway… they have nothing to lose by continuing to throw cr@p against the wall until some of it starts sticking? I don’t know if any one ‘else’ has noticed but these REIC Heros are really patting themselves on the back for their “never say die!” attitude and their willingness to “reload the game”.
Get out and talk to some of these guys, it’s absolutely scary. Every bit of data they can latch their hands on is construed as a “positive”. And of course all it’s doing is making home ownership all that much more difficult for those simply looking for an affordable place to live.
Haven’t many real estate investors already lost their shirts by now? Where are they getting the chips to reload the game?
PB,
Excellent question, don’t think I haven’t wondered about that myself. I have an old friend and against all my better judgement talked ( read coerced ) his father into getting a reverse mortgage to fund his crack-fueled pipe dream.
I still cringe every time the topic comes up. My guess is that the flipper-criminals are working off the same model as more general FB’s. There are so many empty homes they’re hoping they can make the pitch that they can loan them the money to “do something proactive” or they can sit on an empty property!
Truthfully I don’t have a good answer for that, but there sure doesn’t seem to be any lack of will on the part of the flipper-criminal class.
Oh and just from a purely demographic perspective, even if only 1 in 10 self-deluded flipper-criminal finds adequate seed money, this thing can go on to eternity!
“Get out and talk to some of these guys, it’s absolutely scary.”
Problem is that most of these flippers lack modern job skills. Few formal cognitive abilities means you are competing with a global labor pool that’s willing to work harder and faster for a quarter of the lowest paid U.S. wage earner.
i think they are called knifecatchers.
If I remember right in previous crisis (S&L?) the wealthy (perhaps the same ones that participated in the run up) were given insider deals to buy up the assets at insane prices.
The less wealthy always loose. Heh. But now they’ve got crazy amounts of guns and ammo piled up.
The less wealthy always loose. Heh. But now they’ve got crazy amounts of guns and ammo piled up.
Do they loose the dogs of war?
Oh wait, that’s “let slip”.
Never mind…
I’ve got the feeling that there is going to be plenty of property to go around
The game will keep going for years.
For example, I heard in the Baltimore area housing prices have fallen about 14% from peak. Oh-no’s! Considering that prices DOUBLED here thanks to the stupid Bubble and salaries have NOT doubled, we still have a long way to go. Median price for the Baltimore area stands at about $260,000, which is absurd when you consider just how much junk is factored into that price… burnt out rowhomes in Baltimorgue, falling apart shoeboxes that are selling for $200,000+ and which need mountains of repairs, etc. Median income for Anne Arundel County is only around $60,000, so the houses are still badly overpriced. But it’ll take years for this to correct, if ever, since the delusion still lives strong here in Maryland.
Hampton Roads / Southeastern Virginia / Norfolk - Virginia Beach is the same. Prices doubled but salaries decreased since 2001 when adjusted for inflation or what have you. Still bubbly here. People still buying. Navy turns over people and they seem to buy houses. I see it on forums, even though they know they will have to move in 3 years they plan to buy them rent the place out.
VaBeyatch,
And there’s another… tangent I hadn’t considered!
Rank & File Americans have done the math ( and it doesn’t look good? ) Perversely, they “don’t trust the stock market” and have major reservations about soc. sec. etc. So they’re taking it upon themselves to “secure their futures”.
Maybe they can buy a home every three years as they change duty stations? The point being, nearly -everyone- has what they feel is a perctly good excuse for their speculative behavior, even -after- it’s been amply displayed it could well blow up in their face?
Nobody wants to be poor and for better or for worse I see this game getting “re-loaded” w/ regularity. Note: It need not be profitable… but it -will- continue!
You bring up a good point. Salaries have decreased in many companies during this recession. That makes it tough on current mortgage slaves and keeps renters from wanting to become mortgage slaves.
I’m in agreement with the 10 to 15 year doldrums in house prices some of you are predicting.
Because I’m an optimist, I’m going to agree. (Optimism promotes the idea that I’m going to continue being a tenant in better and better places for quite a while, then finally buy something I really want.)
Yesterdays msn web bs stated that incomes raised 3.9% in 08.
WTH..where is mine?
I don’t believe that 3.9% for one sec. sheesh. Is that really hot air blowing up my skirt?
I especially don’t believe it given that Washington has just revised its budget deficit estimate upward in view of very weak Federal income tax receipts.
“The game will keep going for years.”
Or at least ’till China says differently.
As far as CW is concerned right now BofA is seriously “accepting” offers of payment arrangements for behind homeowners.
We have a friend living in florida, who had CW and has not made a mortgage payment in almost 3 years. His attorney had requested documents from CW that they were unable to provide. So the foreclosure never happened.
Now BofA has contacted him and told him to “send” in how much he wants to make as a mortgage payment. His payment before w/ taxes was $3K..they have now accepted a payment with him for $1200 with taxes and insurance…
Wow, talk about making out like a bandit on the housing bust! That friend of yours is like $90K ahead!
Yep..he added every bit of it to his retirement savings..
Ann,
I’m sorry, is (3) years a ‘long’ time? LOL, there’s ONE way to sit out the Housing Bubble huh?
And just like Tom Vu I wouldn’t doubt if you’re friend hasn’t set aside some serious cash? At least they should have. So… now they have all kinds of options. That’s one way to get a house payment that’s cheaper than rent! Wonder what they’ll invest in?
I think it depends on the market. In some markets, the rent/own equation is still really out of whack. When the post moratorium foreclosure activity picks up, I think these places won’t have enough buyers at today’s prices to keep prices from continuing to fall. I expect these markets (the “it’s different here” markets) to take a long time to reach bottom. Think U, not V in these places.
However, there are some markets where it makes sense to buy/own as a rental property (price is 100-120x monthly rent). In these locations, it’s a giant game of musical chairs–foreclosee A still has a job and rents a home that used to be occupied by foreclosee B, and vice-versa. Now though, an investor owns the home, who bought it from the bank.
From the people I’ve talked to who are doing this, the new renters are generally renting in the same neighborhood in which they were previously owners. Their kids are settled in schools, they have friends there, foreclosure is less of a stigma today, etc. These are intentional landlords who, in my opinion, are making very reasonable investments, especially when they are buying homes that are less than 10 years old at ~$70-80 psf in CA, where replacement cost is generally higher than that (even with today’s depressed land and construction costs).
In the musical chair markets, we are close to a bottom in price, but the tempo of the music will pick up as the rate of foreclosures pick back up. The real questions are:
1. Is there enough sideline money out there to buy the homes from the banks as investors, or homeowners who can get the financing? and
2. Are the banks smart enough to realize that rewriting their loan from $400k to $225k and keeping the same family in the home is a better option than foreclosing on the same home and dumping the house to someone else for $160k?
Anecdotally, the banks are doing #2 more and more (not that #2…well, yes, that #2 as well, but I digress…), which should also firm up a bottom in prices in the musical chairs markets.
P.S. I think some of the investors who are going to do the best are those buying land today. Finished lots are selling from banks and others at approximately 25-30% of hard construction costs. Ultimately, when we are through this and housing starts get back to a more normal pace (3-5 years in most markets?), builders will have the choice to:
a) buy land, spend time and money to entitle it, and then spend the money to finish the lots, and pay for the cost of the capital all that time; or
b) buy the 10 finished lots that they want on that day for the cost of finishing (or more if the seller wants to be tough about it).
The investor in the lots (seller to homebuilder) gets a 2-3x on their investment without leverage (since they have some carrying costs), and the builder gets land for free and the improvements for cost. If those economics don’t work for the builder, then supply will be constrained in that market, and home prices will need to rise to make construction feasible again (or costs will need to fall substantially–unlikely with transportation construction ramping–concrete, steel, asphalt, etc.–up as “stimulus” money is spent).
What bank scam will they try to pawn off on us today?
OT… but another M&I Bank Official drowns.
I am not an expert in accident investigations or Wisconsin water death statistics but when a VP and an Investment Advisor in the same bank system both die by ‘accidental”drownings within TWO years, it raises my suspicions.
Stop and think…what are the odds?
Regional News Briefs
Posted: May. 10, 2009
Body of missing kayaker retrieved
The body of a missing kayaker was recovered from Eagle Lake in Racine County Sunday morning, according to the Racine County Sheriff’s Department.
Sheriff’s Department officials identified the kayaker as John O. Houdek, a Town of Dover man who was reported missing on May 4 when he didn’t show up for work. Authorities found Houdek’s overturned kayak in the lake last week. According to earlier information, Houdek, 46, was last seen at the Eagle Inn on Eagle Lake. A call from a Kansasville resident who reported a suspicious object in the lake led authorities to Houdek’s body Sunday.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/44680927.html
Houdek was an investment advisor for M&I Bank in Pleasant Prairie, Wis. It wasn’t till he failed to show up for work Monday morning that anyone realized he was missing,
Reminds me of “The Firm”.
That’s kind of what I am thinking and “accidential death” also pays out big insurance when you’re in DEEP trouble and have nowhere else to GO….except down.
Not every day you get to see Tom Cruise beat the sh*t out of the Quaker Oats dude…
People drowning in Wisconsin doesn’t seen that strange to me…….
I’d wonder more about it if they both lived in El Paso or Lubbock, Texas.
X-GSfixer
I believe Wisconsin had 55 people drown in 2006 which was a recent all time high since Dept of Health records were available. 18 total in 2007. I think we have 27 so far this year. These include snowmobilers and fishermen.
Two older guys, in the same Bank Company, in two years…yeah right. Senior VP’s don’t become dazed and confused, for no apparant reason, go for a snow walk in early Spring and trips off of a deep water breakfront with no witnesses.
You DON’T go near the water in Wisconsin without the proper personal floatation equipment or you face heavy fines from the local cops or the DNR. How many properly equipped kayacker’s fall out of their undamaged kayacks on an inland lake in sight of land and drown ?
Always double check and set your altimeter before take off…it’s there for a purpose
Hussman dissects “stress test”:
Banks Pass Stress Test - Regulators Fail Ethics Test
Last week, financial stocks enjoyed a powerful advance and short squeeze on the announcement of the results of the “stress test” of major banks. It is important to begin by noting that this was not a regulatory procedure with teeth. It was initially a response to Congressional demands to introduce greater objectivity into the use of public capital for these bailouts, and gradually morphed into nothing more than a “confidence building” exercise. And keeping with the emphasis on keeping the numbers happy, as opposed to providing full and fair disclosure, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday, “The Federal Reserve significantly scaled back the size of the capital hole facing some of the nation’s biggest banks shortly before concluding its stress tests, following two weeks of intense bargaining. In addition, according to bank and government officials, the Fed used a different measurement of bank-capital levels than analysts and investors had been expecting, resulting in much smaller capital deficits.”
To some extent, it is not possible to get full and fair disclosure using the method that regulators used in the first place, since it relied on banks’ self-estimates of their potential losses in a further economic downturn. These of course being the same banks that made the bad loans, and have already proved themselves vastly incapable of loss estimation and risk management. Moreover, the Fed only asked for loss estimates for 2009 and 2010, not beyond – “Each participating firm was instructed to project potential losses on its loan, investment, and trading securities portfolios, including off-balance sheet commitments and contingent liabilities and exposures over the two-year horizon beginning with year-end 2008 financial statement data.” This period specifically excludes the window where we can expect the majority of “second wave” mortgage losses to be taken, as it does not capture any losses that will emerge as a result of mortgage resets from mid-2010, through 2011, and into 2012.
The “stress test” procedure also conveniently excludes any potential mark-to-market losses during 2009 and 2010, as banks “were instructed to estimate forward-looking, undiscounted credit losses, that is, losses due to failure to pay obligations (‘cash flow losses’) rather than discounts related to mark-to-market values.”
Now, just think of this for a minute. Even if you assume that the “risk-weighted assets” of the banks are about two-thirds of their total assets (as the stress-test does), we’re still looking at $7.8 trillion in total assets at risk in these banks, and despite being on the edge of insolvency only weeks ago, we are asked to believe that they will need less than 1% of this amount – $74.6 billion – of additional capital even in a worst case scenario. How do the stress tests arrive at this conclusion? 1) They underestimate potential losses by minimizing the horizon over which the losses would have to occur, excluding potential mark-to-market losses and restricting the loan losses to “cash flow” losses only; 2) They define capital well beyond tangible sources, to include about double what is available as Tier-1 common; 3) They include $362.9 billion in “resources other than capital” – essentially pre-provision net revenue expected to be earned by the banks over the coming two years to absorb potential losses; 4) They report the capital buffer that would be required after massive dilution in the common stock of these banks has already occurred.
“… it does not capture any losses that will energe as a result of mortgage resets from mid-2010, thru 2011, and into 2012.”
Again, google up “mortgage reset chart” and give it a long hard look.
I can trump that.
research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/BOGAMBNS?cid=124
My chart beats your chart, and my chart SCREAMS inflation.
They will reinflate the Bubble with runaway inflation.
Too bad salaries will not keep up.
Oh, well - the little people can just eat cake, I guess.
Salaries, what are those?
Everyone on a government stipend.
That chart shows an increase in the supply of money. Velocity drives inflation. Not supply.
Jon,
To see velocity I walk around town.
It’s humming.
ISTM that you can EITHER say that you’re only looking at the short term, which means that you should mark assets to their saleable value OR, you can look at long term solvency, in which case it IS reasonable to look at total projected losses due to defaults. Arguably you should do both, but not at the same time. We want to know if the banks will go Tango Uniform tomorrow AND we want to know whether they’ll go Tango Uniform 10 years from now.
But instead this is like saying that IF there isn’t a run on the bank in the next two years, they’ll be okay for the next two years. That simply isn’t helpful information. Bailouts can make sense if they need help today, but won’t need it in some sort of reasonable future. If they don’t need help today there’s no reason to bail them out. If they need help today, but they’ll never be solvent again, there’s little reason to just kick the problem down the road. We need to triage the financial industry, not mop up enough spilled blood that we can say, “See, there’s no problem here, everybody will be fine.”
I think this might be my first comment on this blog that I have read for many months, and I break my silence to say that the analysis provided in this thread on the stress test genuinely taught me something and is why I keep on coming back for more.
Bravo.
Had a long talk with the fellow buying this place on a short sale. He made quite a bit of money in real estate because he knew it was all a house of cards and got out in time. Through the rental agency, I heard that there was a problem with the title insurance company, but not so, just concern about the well that is shared by four homes that may be low on production. The well does produce 7200 gallons per day. I think he wants to have a large garden. One person uses about 100 gallons per day.
You bring up a good point, Fresno Dude.
Many recall the headlines over federal and state water deliveries being reduced, by environmental rulings or a scarcity of “impounded volume.” People argue over the percentages, but there is less water being delivered. What gets less attention that many of the farmers have turned to ground water, such as it is, to make up some of the difference. So the water table takes more pounding.
It sounded like you were talking about an area east of Clovis. I know residential wells already have to go hundreds of feet deep; it’s not a reach to expect that costlier wells will be necessary, or development will be skipped altogether, which might not be a bad thing, unless it was your land.
More people have been killed over water in the West than over land, cattle, or wimmins.
Four properties sharing one cruddy 5gpm well is just asking for trouble. Even with good storage tanks, that isn’t gonna cut it…especially in a time of diminishing water tables. Yikes.
“Many voters who are dissatisfied with Congress have been calling for a Constitutional amendment to provide term limits.
“What these voters don’t understand is that the Constitution already provides for term limits, but voters are too stupid to step up and do their constitutional duty by turning out the Congress every two and six years for the House and Senate respectively.
“Albert Einstein had it right when he said that ‘There are only two truly infinite things: the universe and stupidity. And I am unsure about the universe.’ ”
Thomas J. Miranda
Give ‘em a break, wmbz. Incumbents have the advantage of name recognition. I think that limiting the number of terms helps to get different people in office. The problem in California, where I live, is that they move from the state assembly to the state senate, and then the governor finds a higher-paying job for termed-out state senators on a state board. Next we have to eliminate a bunch of state boards!
Incumbents have the advantage of name recognition.
And on a regular basis, their electorate has the advantage of getting rid of ‘em. If the voters won’t do that, they richly deserve what they get.
“Stop me before I vote again.” Term limits are at best a symptomatic treatment for the advantage that incumbets have in elections, and at worst distressing anti-democratic.
How come we never heard the Plenty-Plaints and ax grinders squealing for term limits during the bubble years of 2001-2006?
Cause there was a loving expanding bubble to embrace?
That would be called The Ignorance Bubble.
Having incumbents helps make sure our government turns very slowly and keeps the populist movements to a minimum.
Term limits actually hurt. Here’s why:
In modern America, most voting precincts are already heavily gerrymandered to support just one party. The likelihood that someone of the other party is going to get elected is very low.
Let’s say an incumbent retires, and 5-6 people of the majority party in the area throw their hat in the ring. Who wins? Answer: the guy/gal who the majority thinks best represents their values. How does the majority know? Because the winner told them. How did the winner tell them? The winner had the resources to spend on the media to tell them, and the resources to tell them that the competitors do not represent their values.
Where do those resources come from? Those who have the resources and contacts to marshal those resources. Generally the local party and business leaders. The winner is now very beholden to those folks and will continue to be beholden until he/she has been in office long enough to establish a solid, personal reputation.
The problem is how money is raised to run campaigns, not the length of the term.
Went through school with ex Sen Dave Kelly’s kids. Kelly was friend of my parents. Mom asked then Sen Kelly why the CA senate etc kept spending $ like it was payday Fri? and he replied that the CA voters( not unlike other states citizens) keep voting in money, so he just spends it.
After his terms, he and the nutjob in office now, switched seats to run for so they wouldn’t be removed due to Term limits.
Picture them dusting off their hands and saying, well done.
They actually think the constituents are stupid and can be fooled time and again. We must be stupid. And most vote for issues against their best interests. Fooled by big advertising money and lobbyists.
To a degree, people elect the politicians that tell them the lies that they want to hear. A politician that says “We’re going to raise your taxes and cut back on your (benefits/school funding/cops/needed highway improvements/fluffy bunny funding)” isn’t nearly as likely to get elected as the politician who says “I want to cut your taxes and this is magicly going to enable us to spend more on YOUR pet project.”
Term limits have costs and benefits.
Lack of term limits has costs and benefits.
That each has certain costs, and each has certain benefits, is not in dispute.
The key is to find which has the highest net benefits.
Power corrupts. It corrupts especially those in love with it. Which describes many politicians. The reason we don’t allow a president more than two terms is because of the corruption and the undermining of the democratic system it could cause. The same goes for the petit kings, the senators and congressmen and women.
“Here’s a news flash folks: Money you do NOT borrow does not constitute ’savings.’ But this elementary fact does not prevent politicians, professional investors or journalists from utilizing the vernacular of thrift to describe one of the most reckless credit binges in the history of mankind.” ~Eric Fry
Mr. Fry is not fooled by President Obama’s announcement about “saving” $17 billion by eliminating 121 federal programs in the budget. The fact is the projected budget deficit in 2010 is $1.38 trillion – a figure that is 82 times greater than the $17 billion savings that Obama triumphantly proclaimed.
Also, isn’t that $17B in cuts on a $3.5T budget, less than one half of one percent - yawn.
This saved money can be spent elsewhere, several times.
“This saved money can be spent elsewhere”
And where does one find this saved money? Lol…
Experts say GM bankruptcy almost inevitable
DETROIT (AP) — For General Motors Corp., the task at hand is so difficult that experts say a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing is all but inevitable.
To remake itself outside of court, GM must persuade bondholders to swap $27 billion in debt for 10 percent of its risky stock. On top of that, the automaker must work out deals with its union, announce factory closures, cut or sell brands and force hundreds of dealers out of business - all in three weeks.
“I just don’t see how it’s possible, given all of the pieces,” said Stephen J. Lubben, a professor at Seton Hall University School of Law who specializes in bankruptcy.
Do you think that the government drawing out the process for six months has been a good thing, or that we should have just let GM and Chrysler fall last year? I argue with myself about it. Probably because I was born in Detroit and have friends who are auto workers.
I’m not sure myself if the drawn out process was for the better or worse.
But it has resulted in a HUGE surplus of vehicles out there.
Is it a good thing that GM has enough pickups sitting on dealer lots (or storage yards) to go until the end of September? Where in May and the factories should be idled until the next model year.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
When I see this stuff, it reminds me that we have finance and money problems and not real shortages.
Can’t they start taking these overseas and dumping them on the market?
Where (sic) in May and the factories should be idled until the next model year.
It begs the question, what does an auto manufacturer do if it can’t sell the cars it builds? Idle factories? Without building cars and selling them to dealerships (or fleets), you can’t book revenue. No revenue means cash burn on existing debt repayment and fixed expenses like payroll…
Bankruptcy was always the only way forward. GM is in the unenviable position of having high fixed expenses, too much idled plant capacity, and too little demand relative to its costs for its products.
I’m astounded by the number of people who think the economy is “turning the corner”. Those on this blog who have said that the duration of this downturn is what will hurt most are dead on… lot’s of pain still to come in the form of commercial real-estate, credit card defaults, Bank failures, Alt-A/Option ARM resets, unemployment, etc… Chrysler/GM bankruptcy, layoffs, and idled plants alone will have an impact on the economy, what with all the parts suppliers and dealerships getting hit.
Oh the economy is turning the corner all right. We are getting a heap of more debt pilled on us. Plus plans for helping out the people that do the least, at the top and the bottom.
Sometimes people don’t get that as a nation what happens with all that debt is just about the same effect as what happens to you as an induhvidual and you have all that debt.
All the debt serves to do is further concentrate wealth.
Rewarding people that are not productive is going to become a problem again. Hopefully our freespending governments don’t strangle all productive activity.
Its a fine line to walk between government social programs, taxation and free enterprise. I’m advocating balance here.
“Rewarding people that are not productive is going to become a problem again.”
BINGO. The days of paying CEO’s billions for 3 hours of “work” per week is over. And it couldn’t happen soon enough.
Hopefully our freespending governments don’t strangle all productive activity.
I’d argue they’ve already done a pretty good job. They’ve crowded out private investment, selected against “sound” banks (FDIC increasing fees to all banks, while the larger banks get bailed out by the taxpayers), those who took on too big of a mortgage are “victims” yet often get many months free while foreclosure proceedings happen (or never happen, as the case may be).
What’s the point of being productive or responsible at this juncture?
Boy, I don’t know. (you heard it here first) At the end of the day, I think we want to have an auto industry. I don’t think that we want cars to be yet another product (like clothing or electronics) that we no longer manufacture in this country. OTOH, to some extant the big three are like those upside-down FBs: they have agreed to payments, both on bonds and for employee retirement benefits that they really can’t afford to pay. I’m not sure that we need three automakers, and I suspect that Chrysler won’t come out of bankruptcy any time soon. There are just to many players, too much money, too many lawyers for them to come out the other side quickly. They may have to serve as an abject lesson to get GMs various creditors to come to an agreement.
We traveled up to Long Beach on the southern
Washington coast to visit friends this weekend. The boat harbor on the southern end is as close as you can
get to the mouth of the Columbia River and some of the best fishing in the world, both commercial and
sport.
Two years ago every slip was filled and if you were late in your payments, lost the slip immediately.
Probably 75% of the slips are empty and some of the storefronts on the pier are shuttered. Long time
residents have never seen it this bad.
Quite a turnaround. Stories like that make me ponder the duration of this event. How fast and how strong would a recovery have to be to avoid a place like that from shutting down even more?
How fast and how strong would a recovery have to be to avoid a place like that from shutting down even more?
Yeah, no kidding.
Thanks for the on-site observations, Rancher. Stuff like this is one of the things that make Ben’s Blog so valuable.
I haven’t been in Long Beach for a while. I wanted to go to the kite festival last year but didn’t make it. THIS year I will.
I just heard yesterday from someone who visits Aberdeen regularly that that town is flailing around in its death throes. (Aberdeen’s a lumber/port town, the biggest in Grays Harbor county, west of Thurston co where I live) Stores shuttering right and left, people being laid off. Too bad, I like Aberdeen. I like all small towns, in fact.
It really does make me wonder how a lot of the little towns we’ve got sprinkled around out here will make it.
Aberdeen, like all small western WA cities and towns, has a well documented history of massive economic busts, and depression like conditions. Aberdeen has horrific problems when it comes to meth abuse, child abuse, property crime, etc. Local economic realities didn’t stop the real estate bubble from pushing home prices FAR and above what local wages could ever dream of affording.
Flippers from the greater Seattle area descended upon Aberdeen and other small towns in droves, “snapping up” old homes, doing quick, oftentimes cheap, rehabs, and rushing them back to market for hundreds of thousands of dollars. It used to be that you could buy a home in Aberdeen for $10,000. We will see that again, guaranteed, as the economy in Aberdeen is bound to almost completely shut down given the situation in the local and worldwide timber market. I’m sure you’re aware of these things, Oly, but I thought I’d share with those who aren’t familiar with Aberdeen and the surrounding area.
Oly:
Why didnt you tell us there is a town near you called
Humptulips????
“I wanted to go to the kite festival last year but didn’t make it. THIS year I will.”
We made it there. Lots of tsunami-zone beach-front condos standing empty with sun faded billboards touting the exciting retirement scene on Long Beach. The kite festival is fun for the kids, but it was too cold and windy, so not much eye candy for dad.
RE: Probably 75% of the slips are empty and some of the storefronts on the pier are shuttered. Long time
residents have never seen it this bad.
Dead on the main drag in North Conway, NH this weekend.
Upon entering you notice some very noticeable defunct strip malls and numerous small shop vacancies directly in the village.
Tourism season in New England down to about 5 weeks now.
Last two weeks in July/first 3 in August.
Out of control health care insurance and extortionist college tuitions are killin’ everything in their path.
New taxes and no credit will complete the “Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse”.
According to the NYTimes:
Top Colleges See Little Fall in Commitments
By JACQUES STEINBERG
In an early indication that the economic downturn may not have disrupted students’ college choices as much as schools had feared, more than a dozen top colleges said last week that accepted applicants had committed themselves to attending next fall at about the same rate as last year….
….The dean of admissions at Pomona College in California, Bruce Poch, said, “For all the Chicken Little and Henny Penny hysteria and dire predictions, it seems to have worked out just fine here.” At Pomona, 384 applicants sent in their deposits, only 6 fewer than the goal the college had set. The class is “essentially full,” Mr. Poch added, though some students on the waiting list might be offered admission.
Wait until they get their financial aid offers, which conveniently always come after the prospective students have to ‘commit’ to the school by sending their housing deposit. Then we’ll see how many of those kids can actually afford to attend the school of their choice.
“killin’ everything in their path”
Well said sir, and just like Agent Orange you’ll find growth there sparse for some time to come? How long have we been beating on that?
I think the ‘other’ Horseman was the sheer cost of ret./vac. homes? Look at all the dollars pumped into 2nd homes before the term “peak” was being widely used. How in God’s creation did we ever reach a point where feeding a 3/400k loan for a 2nd home was thought to be perfectly normal?
The price of used housebaots is up quite a bit this spring in Rochester.
Yet another Horseman will be the much higher utility and fuel costs we’ll soon be paying when the carbon tax or cap-and-trade comes into effect.
While boat sales at the local dealers here have cratered, the guy I use to get our boat serviced every Spring says his business is up. However, he’s been holding a few boats in his lot because the owners haven’t been able to come up with the money for the repair bill. He had to add a daily storage fee that kicks in three days after the boat is ready.
Boat activity on the lake here seems normal, and our community marina still has a waiting list for slips.
Cap and Trade terrifies me. I just think it’s a horrible cockeyed idea that will only further squeeze ordinary people. Only the naive think that the utilities and other businesses won’t pass the costs down.
There are other ways to reduce pollution without getting da boyz involved.
Boating hasn’t slowed here in Florida. Buying boats has cratered. But taking them out seems to be about the same. My guess is a lot of folks are using their boats for fun instead of shopping/Theme parks. $50 worth of fuel & some sandwiches beats the heck out $300 at Universal Studios.
Better for the kids too.
Jon,
No argument here! Yet we just had an article a few weeks back about people all throughout the S.E just ditching boats anywhere they can and then ( of course ) reporting them “stolen”.
I’ve always found the mark-ups, particularly on pontoon boats fairly ridiculous. Nothing the avg. HBB’er couldn’t do in their spare time if they’d the inclination. Let’s see… aluminum PRE-fab pontoons, 3/4″ marine grade plywood (check!) and bolt outboard motor to transom (check!)
Yeah, I’d pay 25k for ‘that’ ( not )
Buying any new boat, but especially a new pontoon boat, is a HUGE mistake. Pontoon boats depreciate like you wouldn’t believe.
I agree with the poster about boat usage. If you already own it, running it doesn’t cost that much compared to going to a theme park or major league baseball game. I might have to put 5 or 6 gallons of gas in our pontoon boat at the end of a full day on the water. It’s usually less than that.
Older job applicants uses plastic surgery to get ahead:
A new wrinkle in job hunting
Older workers find plastic surgery gives them an edge in a tough market
Monday, May 11, 2009
BY SUSAN TODD
In this dog-eat-dog job market, wrinkles can be costly.
Lou Capolino, an out-of-work sales executive, said he got passed up for several positions before he opted to have a plastic surgeon remove the telltale signs of age around his neck and eyes.
For Capolino, the surgery was as much a part of his job-searching strategy as the résumé he had crafted so carefully to boast of his management experience.
“I’m a man of about 60. I’m competing against people who are younger, and I’m being interviewed by people who are younger,” Capo lino said. “I don’t tell my age for fear of turning employers off.”
As they compete against candidates who are younger by a decade or more, some seasoned job-seekers like Capolino are resorting to surgery to tighten jowls and erase wrinkles and frown lines wrought by age — and formerly demanding careers.
“People who never thought they would ever have fillers (to treat frown and worry lines) are coming in for Botox injections or laser treatments,” said Valerie Ablaza, a plastic surgeon in Montclair. “They’re looking for any little thing that will give them an edge.”
Folks sure will do a lot to avoid “carousel”
Freaking runners make me sick.
The HR folks like to crack a joke or two during the interview so they can get a look at your teeth; green/yellow teeth or a Corn Cobb pipe slot says loser.
Good morning, all! Interesting headlines & links at Yahoo Finance this morning.
First-class postage increases 2 cents today. Sigh. Time for another trip to the P.O. to buy 2-cent stamps. This really P’s me O.
Merrill’s David Rosenberg, in his swan song as he departs for greener pastures, agrees with HBBers that we’ve been having a sucker’s rally since March. (OK, he didn’t actually say he agrees with HBBers, but it’s still true!).
And…Nouriel Roubini is Turbo Tax Timmy Geithner’s favorite economist. Quelle surprise!
You don’t have a stash of forever stamps? You really are priced out forever!
LOL, Muggy!
I do have some forever stamps, but they aren’t sold in rolls of 100 (and why is that, I wonder?). I still have part of a roll of 42-centers though. See, long ago, my husband bought me this cute wooden carved stamp dispenser that’s shaped like a sleeping cat, with the stamps dispensed from the tail. I like it, and if the P.O. would get off their collective heinies and sell forever stamps in rolls, I would be very pleased.
Is anyone interested in renting $1.2m homes for $800/mo? The only problem: You are basically required to maintain the property to immaculate standards, and to be willing to vacate on one week’s notice.
My question: Are prospective buyers provided full disclosure about the pretend owner-occupant?
The new housesitter
Renters, their furnishings being used to sell vacant high-end homes
By Roger Showley
Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. May 11, 2009
Johnna Clavin won the bid to be a temporary resident in a $1.2 million Oceanside home, which means she pays $800 a month and provides her own furnishings. She has to be ready to move out when the house sells. - JOHN GASTALDO / Union-Tribune
…
Operating as QualityFirst Home Marketing, a division of McCarthy Holthus Real Estate Corp., Heineke began visiting local real estate offices this year and advertising for guest residents.
The first to settle in was Johnna Clavin, 45, who moved into a new, 2,600-square-foot Oceanside home with a view in March. She had returned from New York City, where after six weeks managing a large estate, she was dismissed. The FBI had indicted the owner on fraud charges.
Clavin responded to Heineke’s ad, as did 45 other hopefuls, and she won the bid to live in a $1.2 million home for $800 a month, surrounded by her stuff. She had one advantage over the other applicants: an article on her organizational skills that she submitted to Oprah Winfrey’s O magazine.
“I’m not required to do anything other than be immaculate,” she said.
The Mexico City Times?
“Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim, who this year bailed out the Times with a high-interest $250 million loan that also threatens family control.”
“The Ochs-Sulzberger family, which has run the venerable paper since 1896, may also face unusual pressure from about two dozen descendants to cash out and restore their comfortable lifestyles snatched away suddenly by hard times.
Until this year, the family had been living on wealth valued as high as $425 million. But today the family is down in their Times’ annual income to a paltry $4.5 million, which could shrink even more in the recession.”
By PAUL THARP New York Post Monday May 11th
Until this year, the family had been living on wealth valued as high as $425 million. But today the family is down in their Times’ annual income to a paltry $4.5 million, which could shrink even more in the recession.”
Two dozen descendants on $4.5M is less than $0.2M each. What a rough life… Awww…
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Aw, darn. Does that mean that the Ochs-Sulzberger clan will have to, tsk, start working?
I can speak from personal experience when I say that family wealth can have a negative effect on initiative. Take the Fulton side of my family. Descendants of Robert Fulton, the steamboat guy.
I don’t think that Steamboat Bob’s inventiveness is where the family money came from, but lemme tell ya something. The people who decided to sponge off the Fulton Family Fund (my name for it) are some of the laziest, most screwed up people I’ve ever met. I know that’s not a nice thing to say about one’s relatives, but, sorry, that’s my opinion and I’m stickin’ with it.
My mother and father chose not to take the money. Much of this had to do with the fact that the Fulton people didn’t consider my mother to be of their social class. (She came from a working class family in Buffalo. The Fulton people were from Westchester County, dahling.) My dad figured that if they didn’t care for his wife, well, he didn’t care for their money.
One of my college roommates is from a very wealthy Boca Raton family. His father peddled a couple of hard scrabble Ford dealerships he inherited from his father into an extremely successful importer of Jap motorcycles.
The dad is a very good guy. Down to earth. Lives very richly, but gives credit to his father & all the folks who worked for him over the years. His son, spends most of his time chasing tail in the Bahamas & stuffing nose candy.
Dad keeps hoping the son is going to come around and take responsibility for the family business. The son wants to sell it off for the cash and move the money to the Bahama’s before, as he calls it “it’s taxed and given to all the losers.”
We’re still buddies & he has great parties though.
“My dad figured that if they didn’t care for his wife, well, he didn’t care for their money.”
O.K., my x1 vote for AZ Slim’s Dad gets the 2009 HBB “father of the year” award!
O.K., my x1 vote for AZ Slim’s Dad gets the 2009 HBB “father of the year” award!
He gots my vote as well.
Thank you! I’ll tell him.
But, since he’s almost deaf, I’LL HAVE TO TELL HIM LIKE THIS.
Your Dad made a wise decision. My story is similar, only my Dad should have stuck to his decision. I met my grandparents for the first time as an adult although they lived just a couple of miles from my house. After a few meetings I sadly realized how fortunate I was to have grown up without knowing them.
Things didn’t turn out well for the folks who lived off the Ohre family fund either.My cousins, the favored ones, well 2 out of 3 are drugged out and homeless. My sister and I, the ones with the “bad blood” however are doing just fine.
I am confused by what adjusts when quantitative easing is used to buy down l-t T-bond yields. The market smells inflation, which drives up l-t yields, then the Fed prints money (at least figuratively) to fund its T-bond purchases, which is naturally perceived as inflationary. Something about this plan does not seem sustainable, but I don’t have my brain around the equilibrating mechanism.
Wall Street Journal
* CREDIT MARKETS
* MAY 11, 2009
Rising Government Bond Yields Frustrate Central Banks
By MIN ZENG
Rising long-term yields in major government-bond markets are challenging central banks’ actions to heal credit markets and revive economies, raising the odds of more aggressive interventions.
The rise in yields, mainly from an increase in bond supply in major economies to fund budget shortfalls and economic-stimulus plans, also reflects reduced safe-haven demand for government securities amid optimism that the worst of the recession is over and conditions in the money and credit markets have improved.
Still, many market participants caution that further rises in yields may jeopardize the progress as the recovery remains tentative. The 10-year U.S. Treasury yield, for example, anchors the mortgage rates and also serves as benchmark for many corporate-bond yields.
[Treasury Yields]
“We are very close to the peak in bond yields,” said Marco Annunziata, chief economist and global head of fixed-income and foreign-exchange research at UniCredit in London. “If yield closes on 3.5%, it is almost certain the Federal Reserve will step up purchases of government bonds.”
“I am confused by what adjusts when quantitative easing is used to buy down l-t T-bond yields. The market smells inflation, which drives up l-t yields, then the Fed prints money (at least figuratively) to fund its T-bond purchases, which is naturally perceived as inflationary. Something about this plan does not seem sustainable, but I don’t have my brain around the equilibrating mechanism.”
FINALLY.
“FINALLY.”
?
Finally, we get to the topic.
Yes on one-hand the Fed is buying its own bond to drive down yields (quantitative easing) and on the other hand it needs to sell loads of bond to the Chinese and whoever to finance all these bailouts and spending. It’s one hand shuffling it in and the other hand taking it out of the cookie jar and hope that no one notices all the crumbs on the table during this process (your cookie is getting smaller, sir).
I think the bluff will be called eventually and the cards have to be laid on the table.
Then what?
What does the conservative investor do when bond yields are below your inflation expectations & the fed will step in before the yields get high enough?
A: Buy anyway. It is still less risky than your alternatives.
“It is still less risky than your alternatives.”
Sure, until it isn’t.
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Four big U.S. banks on Monday announced plans to sell more than $6 billion of common stock, in an effort to raise capital and repay funds received under the government’s bank bailout program.
U.S. Bancorp (USB.N) plans to sell $2.5 billion of stock, and is also selling $1 billion of debt. Capital One Financial Corp (COF.N) sold $1.55 billion of stock, while BB&T Corp (BBT.N) is selling $1.5 billion and KeyCorp (KEY.N) $750 million.
BB&T also reduced its quarterly dividend 68 percent to 15 cents per share from 47 cents, saving $725 million a year, following 37 straight years of dividend increases.
The offerings were announced three days after Wells Fargo & Co (WFC.N) and Morgan Stanley (MS.N) sold a combined $12.6 billion of stock. Morgan Stanley also sold $4 billion of debt.
Is there any doubt that this rally was intended for these secondary offerings. I’d like to know who is buying, my guess is a lot of retirement funds controlled by said banks.
Combo, I looked up that guy you suggested. $5k –> $15MM
That’s sorta what I was thinking
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090511/pl_nm/us_obama_budget_7
The White House Forecasts Higher Deficit. 1.8 TTTTrillion?
Whodathunkit.
I guess team Barry figure if they keep pumping sunshine, fantasy will over come reality!
White House Sees 3.5% Growth by Year-End, Exceeding Forecasts
By Brendan Murray
May 11 (Bloomberg) — The Obama administration projected that the U.S. economy will expand at a 3.5 percent annual rate by year-end, a rebound that would be almost twice as strong as private forecasters expect.
In the economic assumptions of its 2010 budget request, President Barack Obama’s economic team didn’t change its 2009 predictions for a 1.2 percent drop in gross domestic product this year, slower inflation, higher unemployment and lower market interest rates than a year ago.
As early as the end of this year, GDP may rise at a 3.5 percent annual rate, the same pace projected for all of next year, helped by a $787 billion stimulus package, the administration said in the report today. That’s more optimistic than the 1.8 percent fourth-quarter growth estimate in the monthly Blue Chip Economic Indicators survey released May 10.
“Although the economic downturn so far in 2009 has been more severe than the administration expected when the forecast was finalized, if the financial system begins to function more normally, there is every reason to expect a somewhat stronger recovery given the depth of the current recession,” the White House said today.
The administration expects “housing starts to reach bottom this year and to begin a robust recovery as relative housing prices stabilize,” today’s report said.
The Federal Reserve’s “novel” policies of extending funds to banks to boost liquidity and purchasing short- and long-term Treasuries also will help underpin the recovery, the White House said. Still, a doubling of the Fed’s balance sheet to about $2 trillion “holds the potential for an explosive increase in the nation’s money supply,” it said.
“So far that has not occurred, because much of the increase in Federal Reserve liabilities has gone into idle reserves of the banks,” the administration said. The central bank “is prepared to reduce the assets on its balance sheet promptly as the economy recovers from the current recession and the crisis in the financial sector eases.”
The report also said “inflation is expected to remain subdued over the next few years.”
They may as well toss up whatever fantasy projections they want… they know the worthless media won’t call them on it when it doesn’t come to pass.
Like things were so great before.. oh wait, fake money, torture, wiretapping…ad nauseum.
I was so glad that The One and the congresscritters got together and repealed that odious Patriot Act right after the inauguration.
What? That didn’t happen?
Oh well, at least they agreed to close Guantanamo, didn’t they?
Sweet! One can only hope that we can breeze past 12.9% of the GDP…
White House forecasts higher U.S. budget deficit…
By Caren Bohan and Richard Cowan
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House on Monday pushed up its forecast for the U.S. budget deficit for this year by $89 billion, reflecting the recession, a raft of new unemployment claims and corporate bailouts.
A fresh estimate of the deficit showed it coming in at $1.84 trillion — representing a massive 12.9 percent of gross domestic product — in the current 2009 fiscal year that ends on September 30. A prior White House forecast released in February projected a deficit of $1.75 trillion, or 12.3 percent of GDP.
The report may add to the political challenges facing President Barack Obama as he seeks to push through a new healthcare plan and other big domestic initiatives.
A White House official said the gloomier deficit picture reflected weaker tax receipts as the economy declined and higher costs for social safety-net programs such as unemployment insurance. Spending on the government rescues for the financial and automobile industries was also a factor in the higher deficit, said the official, who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity.
While the Democratic-led Congress has given its approval to the broad outline of Obama’s proposed budget for the 2010 fiscal year that includes initiatives on healthcare, education and other items, some moderate Democrats and a number of Republicans have expressed wariness about the deficit outlook.
Republicans contend that Obama’s agenda would sharply increase the size of government and add to a mountain of debt but Democrat Obama counters that the enormous deficits are a legacy of President George W. Bush, a Republican.
The higher deficits “are driven in large part by the economic crisis inherited by this administration,” White House budget director Peter Orszag wrote in his blog on Monday.
Funny how we can have a 12.9% budget deficit as a share of GDP without universal health care or significant infrastructure investment or enough troops in Afghanistan or putting aside the promised money for Social Security or….
That would all take away money from Goldman Sachs, thus it will not happen.
This is a great example of how messed up living in Florida can be: these three held women as slaves, but were renting a waterfront house.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/crime/article999813.ece
Safety-wise, having a nice house in a good location means nothing in Florida. Absolutely nothing.
I kinda doubt this story. There are a lot of things that make absolutely no sense.
I bet it was concocted to get the women out of prostitution/drug charges.
Lol, Charlie Crist is going to run for Senate. We can only hope he does for America, what he did for Florida. BTW, the photo in this story should remove any doubt
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/05/09/florida-governor-charlie-crist-eyes-senate-run/
WTF is wrong with the judges in Tampa? They set the bail ridiculously low for such a heinous crime.
“WTF is wrong with the judges in Tampa?”
They’re too busy flipping houses in Hawaii with strippers…. that’s when they’re not hiding strippers assets (no pun intended, seriously).
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/article974944.ece
OK so from the judge’s point of view, the crime wasn’t so bad.
The article was interesting - didn’t know that there was an audience for 48 year old strippers.
didn’t know that there was an audience for 48 year old strippers.
Blind men.
Blind men…
That own big dogs, RVs, and… oh nevermind.
A friend of mine who frequents that sort of club pointed out that alot of ‘em are older than you think, and very well preserved. They get ALOT of exercise and their pay is directly dependent on maintaining their figures.
The low bail and the fact that the Fed did not charge them with kidnapping means that at least two people in positions of authority think the stories and charges may not pan out as the police hope.
All good points, I’d still hate to spend $650k to have them as “neighbors.”
So, here I am in the midst of water line replacement. The plumbers are outside, finishing the trench so they can lay a new copper water line.
However, some of my neighbors aren’t too happy.
The problem lies with the fact that the trench between the meter and my house traverses two other properties. And they are rental properties owned by, ahem, investors.
Seems that they too have properties that are served via elderly galvanized water lines. Just like mine. And all of those lines are on their last legs. Just like mine.
The plumbers and I are pretty sure that the inspector from the City of Tucson Development Services will have something to say to the owners of the other properties. As in, “These are rental properties, and you’d better replace these lines so that your tenants have reliable water service. If they don’t have it, they can withhold their rent.”
[Gee, and to think that I can't withhold a mortgage payment for the same reason.]
I can speak from personal experience when I say that replacing a water line isn’t cheap. But, from the time that I moved in here, I knew that my own line was living on borrowed time, and that I’d best keep a cash stash handy to pay for the replacement. And that’s what I’ve done.
However, I suspect that the two investors behind me are from the “get rich in real estate” school. One of the two has already tried (and failed) to flip his property. The other one had to evict the tenants previous to his current tenants.
And, alas, they’re about to learn another lesson about real estate: That you’re responsible for all of the repairs and replacements. Even the expensive ones.
Sometimes, as an owner, I feel that I want my landlord back. I certainly don’t want to be one. At least I only have to fix my own stopped-up toilets and drains.
My apartment flooded yesterday due to the drain pipe for the washer being backed up…second time in a month.
At least as the owner I could be sure the problem was fixed, and not dependent on someone else to properly maintain their property. If I were in a house this would be less likely as well, however…
Sometimes it’s nice simply to be the one in control, even if it costs a little more. You can ensure things are fixed immediately, and properly.
The nice thing is that I don’t have to care about the damage being done to the wood sub-floor by the standing water.
Another fun thing about being the owner? Another angry neighbor.
Guy next door hasn’t had power since the weekend, and he’s trying to blame my plumbing guys for cutting his line. Well, the only guy here right now is the low man on the totem pole, and I can say that he’s been digging v-e-r-y carefully in my yard. As he and the other trencher did in the other two yards.
BTW, they didn’t expose any electrical lines where the angry neighbor thinks his line was cut. I’ve seen the whole trench. Along with all of the Blue Stake markings. No red for electric, except for lines going to other houses. Not to mention that the crew would have been zapped if they’d hit an electrical supply line to a house.
Any-hoo, the plumbing crew boss is coming back shortly, and the angry neighbor’s vowing to call the boss’ boss and give him h-e-double-hockey-stick. Methinks that Blue Stake is going to have to make a return trip to this area, just to settle this thing.
I can’t help thinking that that the neighbors’ electrical problem lies in his house, as only one side of the house is without power. I think the trouble has to do with an overload on his electrical system, but that’s just me.
Me again. Just spoke with an electrician-buddy. (I’d like to convert my porch light to dusk-to-dawn solar so I don’t have to keep remembering to turn the dang thing on every evening.)
Buddy’s coming out to give an estimate next Monday. And he too thinks that the neighbor’s electrical problem is due to something blowing out at his place. Come to think of it, I heard a very loud crack Saturday afternoon. Came from the west side of my property, and the neighbor’s house is to the west.
Electrician-buddy says that when old fuses blow, they make a loud cracking sound. Buddy also thinks that the neighbors are trying to get me to pay for their electrical repair. I suspect that as well, and I can tell y’all right now that ain’t gonna happen.
One side of the house… generally residential is fed by two 110 volt lines. If one of them is cut or breaks, then 1/2 of the breakers in the panel quit working. Generally every other one.
Well, folks, here I am again. This story’s taking a humorous turn for the better.
Turns out that my angry neighbor to the west has nothing to get in my face about. Ya know why? Because his electrical service comes to his house via an overhead line, that’s why. And said line traverses the airspace *above* my back yard.
So, there’s no way that my plumber guys could have severed his line with their shovels. It’s still up there — and it’s intact between the power pole and my property line.
To my neighbors, I have this to say:
FAIL!
I bet your neighbor lost a “fuse-block”. It’s not a normal fuse, but a larger over-load protection compontent that sometimes protects an older fuse-box. My old rental house has two of them, one on each side of the box.
These blocks protect the whole box and up-stream supply lines against experiencing an overload due to someone plugging in too-large a fuse size on individual circuits. Considering that your neighbor lost electricity to half the house, my money is on that being the problem.
Tell him he put fuses rated for too much load into that side of the box. If he just replaces the fuse-block without correcting the overload problem, he’s risking burning the house down.
Thanks for the info, Prime_Is_Contained.
Unfortunately, my neighbor is still holding on to the idea that my water line replacement is the cause of his electrical outage. To the point that my plumbers felt the need to call the cops. Apparently, the neighbor or his brother threatened the boss of the plumbing crew. So, the bossola dialed 911.
I went out to talk to the cops. Pointed out the location of the overhead line that brings electricity to the neighbor’s property. I also offered a mini-tutorial on overhead electrical wires, with emphasis on how they differ from other overhead wires like telephone and CATV. (Electrical has hot, neutral and ground wiring. The other two types don’t.)
Neighbor’s still not convinced.
So, the plumbing company called Blue Stake to come out and show the neighbor what’s along the route between the meter box and my house. And where his electrical wire is. I can’t wait to hear ELM (the Blue Stake company) point out the overhead wire, then say, “You better call an electrician.”
Oh, did I mention that the neighbor and his brother are exhibiting quite a taste for the brewskies? At one point, I whispered the words “Beer Brains” to Tucson Police Officer Lopez.
Slim:
Our apt is 60yrs old…..somewhere 45 years ago when they built the Long Island Expressway, they must have crossed the wires we are the last house on the street…and i lose power in 1/2 the house a few times a year…fortunately its NOT the side the AC’s are on… plus all the street lights go out too….
I can’t help thinking that that the neighbors’ electrical problem lies in his house, as only one side of the house is without power. I think the trouble has to do with an overload on his electrical system, but that’s just me.
Something similar happened to me decades ago. I used my VOM to check all the way back to the circuit breaker box. Half of it (all on one side) had no power, all circuit breakers were active & in good running order. Called the electric company, they tried to tell me it was my problem, I explained to more than one person, the only way it could have been my problem was a break in the main supply line, which looked quite intact.
They sent a man out and discovered that both the 110VAC lines to the house still had temporary wire nuts holding them together. These had been installed even decades earlier when the house wiring was upgraded. They were supposed to have been replaced with more durable ones when the wiring passed inspection, but never were. Eventually internal corrosion broke the electrical connection to one side of the circuit breaker box. The whole thing was the electric company’s fault.
Good thing I checked the supply lines with my VOM. Otherwise I would have called an electrician and wasted my money.
Hahahaah! Good story, Slim.
If it was someone’s nice ol’ granma living next to you then I wouldn’t giggle at the prospect of their plumbing troubles, but since it’s RE infestors?
Why, I shall stay tuned and eagerly await the next episode:
‘Amusing Weeping and Teeth-Gnashing Part I.
Water, water–too much, not enough, in the wrong place at the wrong time, so many ways it can make home ownership miserable.
After we bought the Little House From Hell in 1990, we got a notice from the town government 4 days after we moved in, notifying us that our basement sump pump was illegally connected to the sanitary sewer. We were flat broke, but had to scrape together $700+ to have it re-routed. Fun times.
Slim, whether overhead or buried, the three electrical wires coming into your house consist of TWO hots and a neutral. No ground. Each hot is 120 volts measured hot to neutral. Since the two hot voltages are 180 degrees out of phase with each other, you get 240 volts measured hot to hot. That’s how you get 240 volts for your central A/C, electric range, electric water heater, etc.
And you can lose one leg from transformer problems. Are your transformers up on poles?
I have a question that I think is relevant. To date I have asked it several times, mostly on Mish and Calculated Risk and have as of yet not received a quantifiable answer. At least not one that my feeble mind can get around.
How are they going to get Inflation into the system this time, without Wage inflation? (Employment Anyone?)
We are seeing retrenchment on wages across most industries. The worldwide debt bubble that for the most part manifested itself in Houseing was the perfect vehicle for circulation of cash/debt. With any semblance of lending standards it would seem un-reinflatable.
So where, how, what is the vehicle to get the money in peoples hands to re-inflate assets?
Stock and Commodity inflation due to the closeness of Banks and Wall Street for cheap money has opposite effects. What I mean by that is that Stocks could cause some re-inflation, but they are down so much from the peak it would seem a long way off for trickle down. Commoditiy prices rising on the other hand will simply pull more income away from the consumer to buy Houses, Cars and Toys. Inflation in everything you need- Food and Energy - deflation in the rest. Just to pile on, Tax’s would appear to have an upward trend with that lil defecit they anounced (1.8Trillion? Whatever. Nice DC real nice.)
I know I must be missing something, or just know too many people over exteneded and haveing job worries.
I value many opinions here. Have at it.
I think you ask a good question, OCBear, and I think you already have your answer. Or perhaps it’s that your presupposition is false.
Who says they *can* get inflation into the system the way they want it. Sure, the monetary base can grow, but that doesn’t mean that it won’t just result in higher prices for imported goods/commodities. In fact, that’s the outcome I expect. I don’t see a way to get more money to the “masses” either.
“Assets” can still inflate, though, by people fleeing the dollar = dollar devaluation.
In addition to getting the money into the hands of the consumer, the consumer has to spend it.
I think Japan was able to get money into the hands of the consumer, but they saved it rather than spent it.
Another bubble.
Before the ’80’s, recessions used to end when product inventory was depleted enough that factories would start producing again. They’d hire thousands of workers at a shot and start a virtuous cycle of employment + demand gains + wage growth which inevitably fell into inflation and demand destruction.
We don’t have giant factories anymore so that mechanism is gone. Since the ’80’s we blow bubbles. In the ’80’s it was real estate which lead to the S&L bust, and recession. In the ’90’s it was computers & the internet & the tech bust. In the ’00’s it was real estate & the Great Recession.
There is no other option. We cannot build a competitive industrial economy. Wages for that are just too low. It will take time, but something will come along.
Fraud and outright theft lead to the S&L bust. Many people (not all) went to jail.
The boom(OPEC) and then bust(Iran-Iraq war) in oil prices certainly helped it along, in the same way that post 9/11 rate cuts helped our current RE boom/bust along.
Don’t forget that in the late 80s, it was also a dismantling of the CA aerospace/military base reduction.
“Recent attention has turned from unemployment levels to wage growth as an indicator of imminent inflation. But is there any evidence to support the assumption that increased wages cause inflation? This study updates and expands earlier research into this question and finds little support for the view that higher wages cause higher prices. On the contrary, the authors find more evidence that higher prices lead to wage growth.”
From Cleveland FED paper on wages and inflation.
Go to site, then research, then search for “wages and inflation.”
You can also go to FRED and do a similar search.
more
“It turns out that the vast majority of the published evidence suggests that there is little reason to believe that wage inflation causes price inflation. In fact, it is more often found that price inflation causes wage inflation.”
and more
“The policy conclusion to be drawn is that wage inflation, whether measured using labor compensation, wages, or unit-labor-costs growth, is not a reliable predictor of inflationary pressures. Inflation can strike unexpectedly without any evidence from the labor market.”
Oh, before anyone criticizes the sources as “that’s the FED speaking,”
here’s something I e-mailed on a long time ago to Ben and did post.
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2003/el2003-06.html
Notice it’s 6 years old.
Titled: House Price Bubbles
The author argues that houses are inflated when compared with rents.
And for laughs, references another study of the P/E ratio of houses from 2002.
You can have price inflation without wage inflation via depletion of savings, and debt.
The average citizen can’t borrow anymore and has very little savings.
Printing money might increase the cost of needs but at the expense of wants (ie manufactured goods).
So where, how, what is the vehicle to get the money in peoples hands to re-inflate assets?
It depends whose hands you’re talking about. Inflation the old fashioned way, via fractional reserve lending, puts new money into the hands of bankers. So too have the recent bailouts. I suspect that’s how new money will make its way in, as it usually does, through the bankers. But if they inflated the money supply enough to actually boost prices, how would wages not rise? Don’t know, but I do know that it’s happened that way in the past.
The refinance wave has probably pumped a fair amount of money into peoples hands, but I think it dwarfs, job loss, pay and benefit cuts, stock losses, mortgage resets that couldn’t refy, increased taxes, ect.
I’m just guessing though, I haven’t seen any reliable info on the above. I’d like to see changes over the last 6 mo-1yr in each of the above quoted in dollars per capita.
Import inflation and domestic deflation.
We’re headed to that doomsday scenario. Expect to pay more (eventually, not this year) for oil, Chinese manufactured goods, etc.
However, there were so many bubbles, that some imported items should become more economical (certain wines, older scotch).
But domestic standard of living is about to drop. Which means a drop in how much can be spent on housing. Gee… this reinflation of the bubble could be interesting…
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Honestly we all have too much crap and some thrift might do us good. We just waste so darn much now because replacement cost is so low. Further we damage and take poor care of stuff because of the low prices.
I bought my daughter a new bike a couple months back. She keeps leaving the dang thing in the driveway. Doesn’t car that is will rust or sun damage will happen to the seat/plastics.
Now, in times past she might not have gotten a bike that fits her this well cause she’d grow out of it too fast. Also we’d have takes better care of it so that we could sell it or pass it along.
So, I could see us shifting back on consumption of stuff like this. Being more careful and stretching the life of things. Its a little bit tough but you can probably stretch things in your life and cut expenses by 20-25%. Not to mention making better decisions about buying cars that get crappy MPG or cost too darn much. Then you drive the cars into the ground. That also saves you big time. I could see my truck lasting till 2012, 20yrs old.
Heck, if you change your eating habits and go from eating out once a day and expensive coffee to once a month, and go from prepackaged food to home made stuff… that cuts your expenses by about 75-80%. I’m including getting rid of stuff like pretzels, soda, cereal exc and pre cooked meals.
There is an easy 500-600$ out of a lot of peoples budgets. Easy.
I gave up starbucks and eating out. Working on the wife to get rid of expensive pre-packaged food. Almost there.
Got Russia circa 1990’s?
Roidy
OCB,
On my mind as well. LIz @ Schwab says we are more concerned with deflation than inflation. Bill @ Pimco touts TIPS.
Commodity prices dropping. Sketchy banks trying to raise capital. What are they willing to pay???
That’s what I am watching.
Did a raft trip down the Green, then turned around and did a quick trip to Glenwood Springs, CO. to see family.
Last fall, I noticed maybe 30 oil/gas rigs visible from the freeway between Parachute and Rife, CO. Yesterday, I counted 3.
The freeway traffic was about half of what it would’ve been a year ago. Maybe less. I’m probably more aware of this kind of thing than the average bear cause I don’t drive it much so have a good mental comparison. Still anecdotal, though.
The rental list on CL is getting longer every day for W. Colorado, the prices are coming down, but very very slowly. More and more places allow pets. The oil/gas bust is becoming more and more noticeable, including more stories in the local papers about people having hard times. Rio Blanco Store, on the main route for the oil people into Piceance Basin, is up for sale.
OTOH, Moab, UT, had one of the busiest tourist seasons I’ve ever seen. Things are quieting down now, thankfully.
When I was in Green River, UT, getting ready for the raft trip, I talked to some friends about how quiet town seemed, they say it’s dead in the water from the oil people leaving.
Glenwood Springs’ RE seems to be softening, lots of reduced ads in the paper, but still WAY too high.
And I wonder how my friend in Price, UT, who cashed out his retirement to buy into an oilfield water service is doing…
And I wonder how my friend in Price, UT, who cashed out his retirement to buy into an oilfield water service is doing…
I wonder how Price itself is doing, and Helper, UT. I love Helper. I haven’t been there in years. Any observations to share, losty?
I barely posted up the thread in response to Rancher, the small port and lumber towns out here in Western WA are really hurting.
I think Helper’s a neat town, too. I almost bought a house there a couple of years ago. Maybe I’ll drive up there tomorrow and have a look. Have been thinking about going to check it out.
Price housing is falling, also, but very slowly. When the coal mines die off, like they are in Canada and back east, Price will crash and burn hard. The little college there is looking at major budget cuts.
The future doesn’t look too bright, IMO, even though the used house seller I talked to a few months back told me I was crazy for even intimating the mines might slow down. She was trying to sell me a 1974 single-wide trailer on a small lot in the little farm town of Elmo (about 20 miles from Price, pop. maybe 100) for 60k. I think the trailer was worth maybe 5k and the lot the same, 10k total and you’d be poorer than when you started after buying that.
Elmo was named using the first letters of the last names of the four families that founded it way back when. Don’t forget that important fact in case you ever want to start your own town and want to keep it simple, no fighting over the name (unless you have a LOT of founders, then the name could get long…)
When we flew out of Grand Junction after our trip to Moab, real estate in GJ seemed kind of pricey, considering it’s sort of out there in the boondocks (at least to a city girl).
It is out in the boondocks. My son had a soccer match there on Sunday. and it took 4.5 hours to get there from the Loveland/Ft. Collins area. And the place is overrun with illegals.
All things are relative. To those of us in the desert of SE Utah (Moab), Junction is the big city. To be avoided like a plague of gnats.
hehe, it’s funny to hear of junction as the boondocks. it’s the biggest city on the western slope! so for those of us in dinky west slope towns, it’s also the big city. of course, before I moved out here it seemed that everything west of the Mississippi was the boondocks.
junction still has a strong oil and gas industry. rents are high there, too.
Correction, Junction HAD a strong oil and gas industry. Halliburton has had layoffs, the town is slowing down.
Lost, on the other hand, to me…was just awed by the activity, lots of new machinery, manly men with artificial swagger and thousands of pickups around Parachute/ Rifle last week. Last time I came through was maybe two years ago. I wanted to ask you if there is enough gas, to warrant all this. Seems you answered…
Moab was real busy. Lady (long time store owner) said the season started two weeks later than usual. Lots of people with tanned & chiseled calves - cyclists of all ages. Campground full! Campground full in Capitol Reef, imagine that. Torrey Motels booked out for Memorial Day. I took Rte 95 - Blanding to Torrey, what a spectacular drive, and remote, not one house, maybe ten cars for 120 miles. Only a few foreign tourists (Russians, Germans). I wondered if the mansion outside Torrey, off 12, belongs to the polygamist who was featured in a documentary.
Oh, and also. So much new building in Bryce/Carmel Junction / Kanab - gas stations, new motels, brand new cabins. Looked bubbly! But, I was told, ‘because everyone is pretty much related, there is not competition.’
Update on my parents: They have an offer on their house. Quick recap - listed for $450K…dropped after 7 months to $440K…dropped a couple of months after that to $420K. Been on the market about a year now with few lookers and no offers. I had encouraged them long ago to drop just under $400K and be happy with anything from $350K to $400K.
Well the one and only offer that was made is $375K. My opinion? Take it and don’t counter. Parents new house has a move in date in July. Couple making the offer have sold their house and their settlement date is July 24. It sounds pretty ideal to me for all parties involved.
+1
I’m a novice to such things, but what would be the harm in countering with, say, $385k? Do you think they’d walk away, rather than respond back that the $375k is their final offer?
I’m not advocating a course of action for your parents. I’m just wondering out loud. While $10k is relatively minor in the context of the full price, $10k is $10k….
I don’t know, if someone goes through the trouble of placing a written offer of $375K, I can’t see them walking just because they get countered at, say, $400K (unless, of course, it was me bidding, lol). I have to believe that anyone bidding would expect a counter or would otherwise have gone in with a firm offer (like I plan on doing when and if the time ever comes).
I’d counter at $380k, guessing they’ll accept.
Of course, I once had a $8k difference between what I considered my “best & final” and what the sellers wanted. My RE agent, in trying to get me to get her the comission, told me it was “only $8k” to which I responded that if “it is only $8k, why don’t you pay it?”
Needless to say, that concern over $8k saved me probably $100k. Thanks, sellers!
Needless to say, that concern over $8k saved me probably $100k. Thanks, sellers!
Oh, goody. I just love stories with happy endings.
They should immediately take the 375K, and run like ……
If nothing else, it will make the buyer always wonder if his offer was too high.
Are they prepared to take the chance of being stuck for another year over 5-10 thousand bucks?
I’m with X - accept the offer. Beggars can’t be choosers.
The people who submitted the offer had to be convinced to make one in the first place. They were the only interested potential buyers so far, but they commented that it was too high. My folks realtor went to their realtor to encourage them to make an offer. Countering may be counterproductive at this point. If I were as desperate as my parents are to sell, I’d take it with a smile. They’re already getting $25K more than I thought they’d get.
They should take the deal and run. When we sold my dad’s house two years ago, we took the first offer, and they barely qualified. They had to go to three different lenders. It was very stressful, as we just wanted to sell it fast. My friend’s dad passed away a year later, same town (Montrose, CO), and they have yet to sell his house, they’ve reduced it from 295k to 225k and totally remodeled it and no lookers even. It’s in a prime location, too, right on the edge of the mesa above town and gorgeous views, and on 1/2 acre, in a neighborhood that’s considered very desirable. It’s just sitting…
Carpe dealum.
“Carpe dealum.”
Carpe dealum: I love it.
And +1 on the “take the money and run” advice.
The relatively small difference is not worth the risk of not finding another buyer, and continuing to hold the property in a declining market while also paying carrying-costs could make trying to drive a harder bargain a very costly move.
At the moment, you have them on the hook, with earnest money to back it up (hopefully a substantial sum). As soon as you counter, you give them a free walk-away.
Ouch. If they had to be coaxed to make the offer, then I think your folks should accept the price but counter with a closing date, like, um, tomorrow or as soon as practicable.
About a year ago a friend was in a similar situation - similar numbers too. I said take the money and run. She did, and the house is now worth significantly less than she sold it for.
LOL! Go Barry…
STIMULUS WATCH: Early road aid leaves out neediest
By MATT APUZZO and BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE
WASHINGTON (AP) — Counties suffering the most from job losses stand to receive the least help from President Barack Obama’s plan to spend billions of stimulus dollars on roads and bridges, an Associated Press analysis has found.
Although the intent of the money is to put people back to work, AP’s review of more than 5,500 planned transportation projects nationwide reveals that states are planning to spend the stimulus in communities where jobless rates are already lower.
One result among many: Elk County, Pa., isn’t receiving any road money despite its 13.8 percent unemployment rate. Yet the military and college community of Riley County, Kan., with its 3.4 percent unemployment, will benefit from about $56 million to build a highway, improve an intersection and restore a historic farmhouse.
Altogether, the government is set to spend 50 percent more per person in areas with the lowest unemployment than it will in communities with the highest.
The AP reviewed $18.9 billion in projects, the most complete picture available of where states plan to spend the first wave of highway money. The projects account for about half of the $38 billion set aside for states and local governments to spend on roads, bridges and infrastructure in the stimulus plan.
The very promise that Obama made, to spend money quickly and create jobs, is locking out many struggling communities needing those jobs.
Is there some rule that says a building project in town A can only be built by residents of town A? ‘Cus I never heard that one before.
The gubmint cheese leaves an after taste, and the boyz don’t like it…
Bank shares flood market, firms eye TARP payback
By MarketWatch
Last update: 9:37 a.m. EDT May 11, 2009
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — A handful of big U.S. banks on Monday unveiled plans to sell common shares in the open market to raise money they want to use to repay the federal government to free themselves from restrictions on salaries and other items.
The news follows Thursday’s results of government-mandated stress tests on the nation’s largest banks to determine how much capital they would be required to raise. The results generally showed that they would require less new capital than had been expected.
Video: Hot Stocks: Financials
The U.S. financial sector slips in Monday trading after several banks announce common-stock offerings designed to help pay back the funds they’ve borrowed from the government. MarketWatch’s Greg Morcroft reports.
Investors’ relief over the stress tests fueled a “meltup” in the banking sector on Friday, helping some of the nation’s largest lenders raise more than $12 billion in new equity capital. See full story.
While the banks that received Troubled Asset Relief Program investments in the form of preferred shares could have converted those into common stock to cover their capital requirements, most would rather raise capital in the public markets as able, and pay back the government quickly. See full story.
The banks are looking to get out from under the conditions of the TARP investments, which include restriction on executive pay and employee bonuses.
My bum hurts because I spent all day yesterday sitting on a rocky shore watching big fat tubes of noisy blubber as they splashed around disporting themselves in the chilly gray waves.
Man, they were beautiful! (sea-lions)
There were about 12-15 of them, more than I have ever seen in one place at one time, all shouting and carrying on and frisky-like. Jumping in the air like Flipper, except not so aerodynamic, but not from lack of trying. At one point there appeared to be some synchronized water-ballet going on, with graceful flipper waving and everything. All that was lacking was the flowered swim-caps!
Also, I know a laugh when I hear one, even if it comes out of a tube of blubber, and there was just nothing but laughing and barking and shouting and calls of ‘Hey, watch me do this! Huh huh, didja see that?’
There was one freakin’ ENORMOUS one, I imagine that was the male. He was really showing off for the hot babes.
Anyway, I didn’t get on until late and therefore didn’t get to tell Polly, awaiting wipeout, Exeter, blu that I’m sorry yer mom’s are dingles. If any of you were my kids I’d be prancing around telling everyone about what an obviously superior mother I was and sticking gold stars on my forehead and everything.
Here, I have an idea: next Mother’s Day how about you each deliver a brisk slap to your mom and then say: ‘That there’s straight from Olympiagal.’
Okay? Okay.
I’d love to have seen it!
Beautiful coastline, forests, mountains… splendor.
If I were two, one of me would be on the West Coast for sure.
(I’d eventually miss my palm trees, stingrays and blue Ocean.)
I didn’t get to read yesterday, but I agree with Olympiagal. I would be honored to be the mother of any of you HBBers!
“The price of a first-class stamp for mailing a letter — or paying a bill — climbed to 44 cents today, although folks who planned ahead and stocked up on Forever stamps will still be paying the lower rate. The Postal Service is struggling. It lost $2.8 billion last year and is already $2.3 billion in the hole just halfway through this year”.
Companies that advertise by mail (many of them banks BTW), pay a “bulk rate”. Ostensibly, this reduced rate is meant to garner the USPS more business. And granted, bulk mailings are prepared in advance to minimize USPS handling and sorting.
That said, have we passed the tipping point where the ordinary postal customer now pays a higher rate in part to subsidize the bulk advertisers?
Home sold off for $20,000 after credit card debt
Article from: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
Kay Dibben
May 10, 2009 12:00am
A BRISBANE couple lost their $315,000 home over a credit card debt of $8000, only finding out after the home was sold for $20,000 at a bailiff’s auction.
The first they knew about it was when the new owner, who had to pay the couple’s outstanding $220,000 mortgage, phoned them and said: “Get out.”
Legal Aid Queensland lawyer Catherine Uhr said the couple were not given notice of the auction in January.
“All this married couple got back from the $20,000 that was paid for their house was a cheque for less than $5000, because of costs,” said Ms Uhr, of the Consumer Protection Unit.
Legal Aid Queensland says it is just one of several cases of debt collection companies moving to sell Queenslanders’ homes at bailiffs’ auctions to recover credit card debts of less than $10,000.
LAQ says debt collection companies buy small credit card debts off lenders, often obtaining judgment for payment of the debt in a New South Wales court, then getting enforcement warrants for bailiffs’ auctions in Queensland courts.
read “House of Sand and Fog” or watch the movie I think it was made pre-RE bubble bust.
Oh well, if you’re upside down on your mortgage there’s nothing to get anyway.
Merrill’s Rosenberg: Goodbye, Thank You, Yes It’s Just a Sucker’s Rally
Posted May 11, 2009 09:29am EDT by Henry Blodget in Investing, Recession, Banking
From The Business Insider, May 11, 2009:
Merrill’s economist David Rosenberg left the firm Friday, May 8 (planned for several months). And he went out swinging. David has maintained from the beginning that the recent rocket rally off the lows is just a suckers’ rally, and he reiterated that view as he walked through the doors.
Some excerpts from his swan song, which was published Thursday:
Market likely to peak the end of the week [Friday]. Just as the clock is winding down on my tenure at Merrill Lynch, the equity market is winding up with an impressive near-40% rally in just nine weeks. For those that were still long the equity market back at the March 9 lows, a good ‘devil’s advocate’ exercise would be to ask yourself the question whether you would have taken the opportunity, if the offer had been presented, to have sold out your position with a 40% premium at the time. What do you think you would have said back then, as fears of financial Armageddon were setting in? We haven’t conducted a poll, but we are sure at least 90% of the longs at that point would have screamed “hit the bid!”
Are we at risk of missing the turn? Fast forward to today, and within two months optimism seems to have yet again replaced fear. Are we at risk of missing the turn? What if this is the real deal — a
new bull market? This is the question that economists, strategists and market analysts must answer.
Risk is much higher now than it was 18 weeks ago. The nine-week S&P 500 surge from 666 at the March lows to 920 as of yesterday has all but retraced the prior nine-week decline from the 2009 peak of 945 on January 6 to the lows on March 9. We believe it is appropriate to put the last nine weeks in the perspective of the previous nine weeks. To the casual observer, it really looks like nothing at all has happened this year, with the market relatively unchanged. But something very big has happened because the risk in the market, in our view, is much higher than it was the last time we were close to current market prices back in early January, for the simple reason that we believe professional investors have covered their shorts, lifted their hedges and lowered their cash positions in favor of being long the market.
Employment, output, income, sales still in a downtrend.
“On the 73rd day I will rest.” Does Obama think he is God now?
It was a joke. It is the same event where GWB ran around pretending to look for WMD’s under chairs and things (or it may have been a video of doing it somewhere in the White House).
C’mon. don’t you think that was said in jest to what ppl keep saying.
Or even out of context?
Humor and laughing at oneself is key.
Nope, only GOPs think he’s god.
They will file bankruptcy soon and stiff the general public of it’s funds. Going to be fun watching gubmint run the auto business, perhaps they’ll get someone from the postal service to show them how it’s done!
GM says open to moving from Detroit headquarters…
DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp is open to considering moving its headquarters from Detroit, selling off U.S. plants and even renegotiating parts of its restructuring plan with its major union, the new chief executive said on Monday.
CEO Fritz Henderson, on a conference call with reporters, said it was more probable that GM was headed for bankruptcy by June 1 - the U.S. government-imposed deadline for the automaker to restructure or face bankruptcy.
“It’s more probable that we would need to accomplish our goals in a bankruptcy,” Henderson said. “There’s still a chance for it to be done outside a court proceeding.”
A move by GM to leave Detroit would represent another blow for the economy of a region already reeling from the bankruptcy of Chrysler LLC and the sharp downturn in auto manufacturing.
GM purchased its glass-towered headquarter building known as Detroit’s Renaissance Center last year for $625 million. The 100-year-old automaker has been based there since 1996.
“As we look at the structure, look at the business, we’re looking at everything, particularly as we slim,” Henderson said. “At this point, I don’t have anything to report. We don’t have any such plans, but if we did it would be motivated by business rationale, which would be cost-efficiency and speed.
GM has until June 1 to reach deals that would slash debt owed to bondholders and the United Auto Workers union and to win concessions from the union that would cut operating costs for its remaining U.S. plants under terms set by the Obama administration’s autos task force.
It has already told bondholders that it would miss a June 1 debt payment of $1 billion.
How much of the bankruptcy talk is really reflects the thinking of GM management and how much is posturing for the bondholders?
I think the bankruptcy talk is real. I am not sure that GM management agrees with me.
How does leaving Detroit help save them money? That part I don’t understand.
Maybe they will be moving to Mexico.
From NY Magazine:
Bigfoot of the Hamptons
Who’s the mystery buyer said to be scooping up handfuls of houses with lowball offers? An investigation.
By S.Jhoanna Robledo Published May 10, 2009
Have you heard? There’s a monster stalking the Hamptons. He’s a Bank of America executive, a hedge-funder, or a builder. He’s buying property, they all say, the way the rest of us go to Costco. He’s filling his cart with houses priced between $3 million and $4 million, and he’s offering something like half-price, or even less, up to $1.5 million apiece. He makes one offer, nonnegotiable, and he’s simply planning to park his $100 million, or whatever the total is, in East End real estate for a couple of years, until prices go back up and he can double it. Some say he wants to buy 30 houses, or fifteen, or twelve, and he’s been successful with three so far. Also, depending on who’s telling the story, he’s either in Bridgehampton or scouring the entire South Fork.
Let’s call him Bigfoot, after the mythical woodland creature, because he (and his bankroll) fall exactly between plausible and unbelievable. If he exists, he certainly is larger than life. Long-timers, weekenders, buyers, sellers—everyone has heard of him. (Several agents brought up the story to me unprompted, and a couple of weeks ago, New York reporter Andrew Rice even turned up a similar tale about a mysterious Manhattan apartment-buyer.)
The thing is, like the other Bigfoot, this guy does not exist. Or if he does, he hasn’t bought a thing. The Long Island Real Estate Report, a database that tracks the local market sale by sale, lists no two deeds filed since January from the same buyer in the East End. (The exceptions are a local firm that bought a bunch of condos from a Michigan developer exiting the scene, plus a few buyers who’ve assembled adjoining lots. The only way someone could be hiding would be if he had set up a separate shell corporation for each purchase, a highly unlikely scenario.) Of nearly a dozen brokers whom I interviewed, none has met Bigfoot or received an offer from him. Veteran broker Diane Saatchi had looked into the story herself, informally surveying East End agents, and says this: “Almost all respondents reported hearing some variation of this story and said it was not true, a rumor, or could not be verified.” Corcoran’s Ana O’Byrne says she’s had buyers ask “to keep an eye out” for great deals, but no one quite so aggressive.
This story has all the criteria of a budding urban legend. Elizabeth Tucker, a folklore specialist at SUNY Binghamton, rattled off the hallmarks: “It’s told by a friend of a friend, it’s about something of tremendous interest, the numbers almost always are a multiple of three.” She adds that stories like this tend to gain traction in times of stress. And in fact, a monstrous turn in the narrative right now almost makes sense. Bigfoot is a kind of hero for buyers—“It gives them hope, possibly, that you can get something at 50 cents on the dollar,” says O’Byrne—and embodies disaster porn for local sellers. “[People think,] if houses could be sold at 50 or 60 percent of their value, then that brings down the value of my home,” says Patricia A. Turner, a UC–Davis urban-legend expert who grew up in Sag Harbor and owns a house in Bridgehampton.
Where does this story come from, anyway? Urban legends tend to arise from the conflation of two or three events that happen around the same time. (For example, the widely repeated canard about Walt Disney—that he was frozen after his death—has been traced to an unrelated story about cryopreservation that appeared in the press just after Disney’s obituaries did.) As it happens, Prudential Douglas Elliman’s Enzo Morabito says hedge-funders with plans to buy distressed properties in the South Fork approached him last fall, but nothing came of it. Another broker claims to have had two bottom-fishing buyers, one of whom sent out seven lowball bids for $2 million–to–$3 million properties all at once. (Both were planning to make deals only with whichever seller took the bait first.) It’s entirely plausible that a game of telephone conflated these stories and turned a few opportunists into one big hairy ogre. An ogre that personifies the anxiety that the big-money days are gone forever. As one longtime broker says, “What are we going to do with all the houses that were built? We should turn south of the highway into Colonial Williamsburg and say, People used to live like this.”
Sounds like a good idea to me.
“The Great American Housing Bubble National Historic Landmark”
Turn the “Clubhouse” into a Visitor’s Center, with a interactive museum showing the causes of the mania, and the fallout form the collapse. Make one of the more common stucco houses into a time capsule, including granite countertops, stainless appliances, big screen TV, Hummer H2, new Harley and Jetski in the garage……but blankets/sheets/towels for drapes, and no furniture.
Hopefully there will be an adjacent strip mall, where a representative selection of late 20th/early 21st Century retail outlets (Circuit City, S-Buks, Tuesday Morning, Ikea, Levitz Furniture (with the perpetual “Going out of Business” sign out front) will be open for tours.
So, beachfront real estate falling 50% is the equivalent of seeing Bigfoot. It all makes sense now. The asking price on the Beachfront condo I rent in South FL is down about 50% and yesterday I could have sworn I was standing behind Bigfoot in our elevator. Oddly, he was wearing a Speedo and sandals and he spoke with a French Canadian accent. He did smell exactly like you would imagine a Sasquatch would.
Looks like Miss California is getting the boiot. Too bad other people who left out some facts are not paying the price.
I wouldn’t worry about Miss Cali. She’ll be making bank. Anybody remember the name of Miss America?
I thought we outsourced that?
Don’t worry, The Donald won’t fire any beautiful blondes.
She’s an embarrassment, fake-o tan & ta tas. SHe represents the worst cliche of non-Californian’s image of California.
NYT
Even the government’s grim projections may vastly understate the size of the banks’ credit card troubles. According to estimates by Oliver Wyman, a management consulting firm, card losses at the nation’s biggest banks could reach $141.5 billion by 2010 if the regulators’ loss rate was applied to their entire credit card business. It could top $186 billion for the entire credit card industry.
In the official stress test results, regulators published losses only on credit cards held on bank balance sheets. The $82.4 billion figure did not reflect another element in their analysis: tens of billions of dollars in losses tied to credit card loans that the banks packaged into bonds and held off their balance sheets. A portion of those losses, however, will be absorbed by outside investors.
What is more, the peak unemployment level that regulators used to drive their loss estimates is roughly what current rates are on track to reach. That suggests that if the unemployment rate gets much worse, credit card losses could be worse than what regulators projected.
And many economists expect the number of job losses to climb even higher. On Friday, the unemployment rate reached 8.9 percent as the economy shed 539,000 jobs. The unemployment rate and the rate of credit card charge-offs, or uncollectible balances, have been aligned because consumers who lose their jobs are more likely to miss payments.
Banks wrote off an average of 5.5 percent of their credit card balances in 2008, while the average unemployment rate was 5.8 percent. By the end of the year, the rate of credit-card write-offs was 6.3 percent; more recent data was not available.
Experts predict that the rate of credit-card losses could eventually surpass the jobless rate because of the compounding effects of the housing crisis and lackluster consumer confidence. Shortly after the technology bubble burst in 2001, credit card loss rates peaked at 7.9 percent.
“We will blow right through it,” said Inderpreet Batra, a consultant at Oliver Wyman, which specializes in financial services.
Unlike in prior recessions, cardholders who recently lost their jobs are unlikely to be able to extract equity from their homes or draw down retirement accounts to help pay off their debts. That means borrowers who fall behind on their bills are more likely to default, leading to higher losses.
I can remember, Back in the Day, when one really had to jump hoops to get a credit card. Matter of fact, I was turned down for one back in 1987. Reason: I didn’t have enough income to qualify.
I was overjoyed when I got my first Bankamericard in 1976. $200 credit limit.
I was looking at this Time Mag, and suddenly thought - somewhere, there’s a newspaper executive rubbing his hands in joyful schadenfreude watching the real estate market implode after seeing large chunks of RE advertising move to places like Craigslist and their own (non-print) web offerings.
Could it be possible that the MSM (the print MSM, anyway) could turn (or are turning) on their former masters?
“Unlike in prior recessions, cardholders who recently lost their jobs are unlikely to be able to extract equity from their homes or draw down retirement accounts to help pay off their debts”.
No doubt credit card delinquencies and defaults will be gaining speed. The numbers are huge and it’s going to get harder to sweep them under the rug.
Anyone catch that CNBC Meredith Whitney interview before the close? I was mesmerized. She really knows how to call a spade a spade. The hosts noticed a deceleration in the indices into the close and wondered aloud if her comments were responsible.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1120084432&play=1
Amazing that opinions can so easily turn the market.
The most important element in a confidence game is confidence.
I almost feel like I’m seeing the Emperor’s New Clothes.
AKA: The tumescence of bull$$ht.
That was a great clip, CarrieAnn. There are so few people that speak the truth on that program.
JOHN HEMPTON, a former Platinum Asset Management banking analyst-turned-financial blogger living in Bronte, would at first glance appear an unlikely candidate to uncover a financial scandal linking US Ponzi schemes to the offices of a hedge fund owned by the son and brother of the US Vice-President, Joe Biden.
Bronte sleuth finds Ponzi link to Biden’s son.
http://business.smh.com.au/business/bronte-sleuth-finds-ponzi-link-to-biden-20090511-b0le.html
Hempton is at pains both online and in conversation to say he is not alleging the Bidens are crooks. Though he says their due diligence - before buying the fund and in its oversight of sales staff afterward - was sloppy. “There is no question that they housed within their doors a Ponzi, a fraud,” Hempton says.
Paradigm’s links to Ponte Negra have received relatively little attention by the mainstream media, save a series on the Financial Times website.
Hempton says he can understand that, since in one sense there is no evidence to suggest that Joe Biden has had any involvement with Paradigm.
But he adds that in another sense, it is a story that typifies the economic situation.
I noticed a bunch of REO listings have been sold(fannie and freddy). I wonder if these are retail/end user sales or more scumbag “investors” buying wholesale thinking they’re going to make a killing.
I opened a trading account. Everybody outta the pool!
That settles it, thanks Muggy for the warning. whew. And I was wondering what to do with my pocket dwelling change.
Financial Times
China cuts lending amid asset bubble fears
By Jamil Anderlini in Beijing
Published: May 11 2009 18:12 | Last updated: May 11 2009 18:12
Chinese bank lending slowed dramatically in April because of fears that loan growth in the first quarter had been excessive and could pave the way for loans of deteriorating quality, so possibly creating a new round of asset bubbles.
China’s state-dominated banks gave out Rmb591.8bn ($85.2bn, €62.5bn, £56.3bn) in new loans last month, less than a third of the Rmb1,891bn in new loans extended in March, but still well above the monthly levels of recent years.
In the first quarter, Chinese lenders answered the government’s call to open the credit taps and get the economy moving again, extending more than Rmb4,600bn in new loans – more than the entire amount of new lending in 2007.
That led to fears among regulators that money was being funnelled illegally into the stock market and handed out to state-sponsored stimulus projects of dubious commercial value that could become non-performing assets.
Some regulators also worried about the potential for rampant inflation. Those fears were somewhat eased by price measurements released on Monday showing China remained in deflationary territory in April for the third consecutive month.
The consumer price index fell 1.5 per cent from a year earlier in April, compared with a fall of 1.2 per cent in March, while the producer price index fell 6.6 per cent after falling 6.0 per cent in March.
Chrysler, Obama take the truth about plant closings for a spin — Stephen Koff
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1241857982257280.xml&coll=2
Several unemployment graphs in link:
More Thoughts on Unemployment
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/More-Thoughts-on-zacks-15205912.html?.v=1
“More Thoughts on Unemployment”
Interesting read but fails to take into account that many companies instead of laying off their employees have not only cut overtime but shortened their companies work week.
This is going to be one hot summer!
Or they have lengthened the work week for the remaining staff with a pay cut to boot.
Lawyer Dreier Pleads Guilty in $700 Million Fraud (Update2)
By Bob Van Voris
May 11 (Bloomberg) — Marc Dreier, the New York law firm founder accused of defrauding hedge funds by selling $700 million in phony promissory notes, pleaded guilty to charges that could bring him life in prison.
Dreier, who turns 59 tomorrow, pleaded guilty today in federal court in New York to charges of money laundering, conspiracy, securities fraud and wire fraud. Victims of Dreier’s Ponzi scheme lost more than $400 million, according to prosecutors.
“I engineered a scheme to issue and sell fictitious promissory notes purportedly issued by companies in the United States and Canada,” Dreier told U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff, reading from a prepared text.
Dreier’s lawyer, Gerald Shargel, has said he will seek leniency for Dreier at his sentencing. Dreier has cooperated with court-appointed bankruptcy trustees to identify assets that can be used to pay victims and creditors, according to Shargel. Rakoff set a sentencing date of July 13.
Shargel said in an interview April 28 that his client planned to plead guilty to the charges against him and didn’t have a plea agreement with prosecutors.
Dreier has been confined to his Manhattan luxury apartment, watched around the clock by armed guards paid for by friends and relatives, a condition of his $10 million bail. Dreier’s former firm, the 250-lawyer Dreier LLP, is being liquidated in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.
Arrested in Canada
Dreier was arrested in Toronto Dec. 2 and charged with impersonating a lawyer with the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan. He was released on bail and arrested again Dec. 7 on his return to New York.
Prosecutors claimed Dreier sold more than 85 phony promissory notes to at least 13 hedge funds and three individuals from 2004 to 2008. Dreier falsely told investors many of the fake notes were issued by New York developer Sheldon Solow, a client of his firm.
A court-appointed receiver in the Dreier LLP bankruptcy reported that Dreier used the money to subsidize the money- losing firm, to pay off some of the victims of the scam and to buy luxuries for himself, including a 121-foot yacht, vacation homes in the Hamptons and a $39 million contemporary-art collection.
The government claims he laundered the money through the accounts of the law firm, of which Dreier was the sole equity partner.
According to prosecutors, victims of the fraud included Amaranth Group Inc., Perella Weinberg Partners, Eton Park Capital Management LP, Concordia Advisors LLC, Novator, Meyer Ventures LLC, Blackstone Group LP’s GSO Capital Partners and Elliott Management Corp.
The case is U.S. v. Dreier, 09-cr-85, U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York (Manhattan).
CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo discusses big banks’ plans to sell common shares in order to repay TARP funds, with Meredith Whitney, Meredith Whitney Advisory Group founder & CEO.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1120084432&play=1
The world economy will bottom out any day now, as central bankers everywhere are noting signs of green shoots sprouting up out of the rubble of the financial collapse.
Downturn bottomed out, Trichet signals
By Chris Giles and Daniel Pimlott in London and Ralph Atkins in Frankfurt
Published: May 11 2009 14:35 | Last updated: May 11 2009 20:36
Jean-Claude Trichet signalled on Monday that the global downturn had bottomed out with some large economies already able to put the recession behind them and look forward to renewed growth.
The European Central Bank president’s comments on Monday in Basel, Switzerland, had added weight because he was speaking on behalf of the world’s leading central bankers, not just for the eurozone.
His remarks came as the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development said there were signs of a “pause” in the economic slowdown in France, Italy, the UK and China.
The tentative signs of green shoots across the global economy have already led to a 40 per cent increase in global equity prices since the trough in March, according to the FTSE All World ex Japan index.
There has also been a rise in business and consumer sentiment in recent weeks, as orders have begun to return and levels of unsold stock have begun to subside.
As recently as late April, the world’s central bankers and finance ministers were still extremely cautious when they gathered in Washington and the International Monetary Fund said the global economy would contract sharply this year and recover only sluggishly in 2010.
That is from the Financial Times…
Secrets of the Temple:
I have been thinking about the green shoots the world’s central bankers keep claiming to see. I am thinking it is quite a bit like religious faith — if we all believe in those green shoots, they will magically appear before our very eyes. And if we ignore those 19.1 million vacant homes that dot the American landscape, perhaps they will magically disappear as well. And if we all know the recovery is truly on the way this fall, then the housing bubble may be able to have eternal life.
Yep — central banking and religion have much in common
Anyone know of a site like this one that talks about commercial REITs? Some have failed (GGP–chapter 11), other have fallen hard (90-95%), but appear to be fixing their balance sheets after making some tough choices (PLD), and others have fallen significantly (+/- 50%), but I find it hard to believe that they won’t fall further (SPG).
Seems like a ripe hunting ground for investing today–I’d like to find some smart guys to talk to about the opportunities (or lack thereof).
When what is bad for the individual (debt) is good for the economy, it seems to me that the system is broken.
Wanda Sykes had some good material at the White House Correspondence Dinner. Be sure to check out AG at 8:42 for some late evening HBB adult entertainment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJR-WzMjCGA&feature=popular
The realtors ought to name a foreclosure bus the “REO Speedwagon”.
I wore my HBB tee shirt onto the racquetball court tonight. Not only did I beat my hapless partner two games straight, but then I added insult to injury by discussing the free racquetball court time that I get with my rent payment. Next we got onto the subject of his underwater mortgage — I really did not mean to steer the conversation that way, but it just kinda drifted there. I feel terrible now. I guess I will have to let him win next time we play, just to make it up to him…
There’s a 3/2 SFH approx 1600 sq/ft on my corner (94087) that’s been for sale for about 3 months. This weekend it was open, so we did a lookie-lou. There’s a new “REDUCED” sign on the for-sale sign.
The price? $998,000!
There’s still a big disconnect in the minds of some sellers between reality and fantasy.
The Office of Management and Budget released a report yesterday on the budgets and proposed overhauls of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that included the possibility of liquidating their assets. But don’t get your hopes up.
The two government run mortgage finance companies have been scandalously costly for tax-payers, costing Americans far more in bailout money than they ever saved in cheaper mortgages. The OMB says that the two companies will need at least $92.2 billion more in fiscal 2010. This is on top of the $78.2 billion in aid they’ve received since they were taken over by the government in September.
The entire point of having Fannie and Freddie operate as government sponsored entities was that they could borrow at lower rates than purely private companies. This savings enabled them to make mortgage loans at lower rates, and allowed them to buy up or guarantee mortgages from private lenders at rates that would otherwise have been uneconomical. Over the years, Fannie and Freddie may have saved Americans as much as $100 billion in mortgage payments. Now the OMB says they’ll need that much just to get through next year.
Oh yes they saved us money, on overpriced realestate. Now they will cost all taxpayers and those who bought overpriced realestate trillions.