As For The Healing
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Bruce Windsor lived the life of a respectable family man — father of four, deacon in his South Carolina church, youth soccer coach, a volunteer who helped build orphanages in Brazil. On Feb. 26, four days after his 43rd birthday, he donned a mask, wig and sunglasses and tried to rob a bank at gunpoint, authorities say. Windsor, it turns out, was falling down a financial hole. A real estate investor who ran several property business, his troubles predated the recession but continued as the housing bubble burst and easy credit for businesses and consumers dried up.”
“Clad in an orange jumpsuit, his hands cuffed at his waist, Windsor calmly told the judge at his bond hearing: ‘I’ve never stolen anything in my life.’”
“The economic forecasters at Cal State Long Beach expect another six months of job cuts. Redlands-based senior economist John Husing says the depressed housing market is having a huge impact. ‘We need to slow down the sale of foreclosures. That’s what this is all about. The question is ‘how long before this whole thing starts to correct?’”
“A report released Thursday said mortgage delinquency rates in the region shot up in March. Further, the actual foreclosure rate did not increase proportionately with the increased number of borrowers who were late on their payments, creating a backlog of probable foreclosures. Delinquency rates in the Riverside-San Bernardino metro area hit a staggering 15.7 percent. In San Diego County, 7.2 percent of all borrowers were behind on their payments.”
“Mark Goldman, a mortgage broker and lecturer at San Diego State University, said prices are still falling and ‘couple that with reduced employment, reduced household income; I mean, what magic is going to keep people in their homes?’”
“As of March, there were about 220,000 mortgages across the state that will see such adjustments over the next few years, according to data from the Federal Reserve. Roughly 177,000 of them will hit ‘Alt-A’ loans, typically given to higher-income borrowers who purchased multiple properties or used “stated income.’ One of those borrowers is Diane Goodwin of Oceanside. She purchased four investment properties. Including her own house, she has five ‘Alt-A’ loans.”
“Three of the loans have been modified. One was a permanent modification she said she can pay over the life of the loan. The other two have reduced payments over the next five years and then adjust to payments Goodwin said she won’t be able to afford.’
“‘We have to deal with it in five years, but it at least gives us five years,’ she said.”
“Keeping up to 9 million Americans from losing their homes. That’s the objective of the making home affordable program. On Thursday, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Housing Secretary Shaun Donovan said 58,000 homeowners have been able to get through the system so far. Critics would say that less than 1 percent of the target isn’t much progress at all. ‘It’s not working, from what I can see,’ said realtor Konnie McKee. ‘I have not, literally, not talked to one person who has had a successful modification with their loan.’”
“McKee deals with foreclosures and short sales. Clients come to her, when the loan workouts don’t work. A hallmark of the Making Home Affordable program announced in February is the idea that borrowers no longer need to be delinquent on their loans before their servicers would talk to them about a modification. McKee says her clients haven’t been able to get help. She even called her own lender to get the story.”
“‘We were told, out of the gate, without any further inquiry that we were not qualified because we were not behind,’ she said.”
“Selling homes quickly, before they reach foreclosure, is a growing phenomenon in New York City’s outer boroughs. In a short sale, banks write off the difference between the mortgage amount and the value of the property. Foreclosure will be avoided, but the bank will give the default client a deficiency judgment, meaning credit rating is affected. ‘Their credit is not something we can save for these folks,’ said Christopher Gerstle of United Short Sales. ‘It’s obviously a very difficult conversation to have with your client.’”
“A total of 803,489 filings were reported in the first quarter; California, Florida, Arizona, Nevada and Illinois accounted for nearly 60 percent of that figure. ‘The entire country is like a 30 percent off, Macy’s one-day sale,’ Gerstle said.”
“Lenders receiving U.S. government stimulus money are required to offer distressed homeowners reasonable loan workouts to prevent more foreclosures. But critics say that’s often not happening. ‘In many of these cases the bank is not responding to modification requests or they are saying something like, ’send us two payments and we will consider a loan modification,’ and when it comes time to modify the loan they lower the payment by $100,’ said.Weston attorney Jonathan Kline.”
“‘The effort is embarrassing,’ said Howard Ullman, a Deerfield Beach attorney. ‘Every day we see billions of more dollars being funded into these lenders, and they are foreclosing like crazy.’”
“A Florida Supreme Court task force on home foreclosures plans to propose uniform case management and design a model mediation program to deal with the glut of foreclosure cases tying up the state’s legal system. Fort Lauderdale attorney Eric Schwartz, who represents licensed mortgage lenders, wants mediation to be addressed on a case-by-case basis.”
“‘It takes two to tango, and oftentimes we have files where the defendants are totally unresponsive and are not living at the property any longer,’ Schwartz said. ‘To have [mediation] applied in those types of circumstances would be a waste of everyone’s time and money.’”
“The company planning a $400 million redevelopment of the city’s waterfront has failed to make a scheduled $1.09 million payment to the Port of Everett. Chicago’s Maritime Trust, a partner with the port on a project to add some 660 waterfront condos and commercial and office buildings, is lacking money, not interest.”
“‘There are not two pennies of financing around these days,’ said Bert Meers, an executive with Maritime Trust. ‘We’re scraping around for the million dollars. Who knows what’s going to happen.’”
“Meers noted that the project had financing that was later canceled. And few financial companies if any have been backing such developments these days. ‘The world is not wonderful right now,’ he said. ‘But it looks like spring is coming. We had financing once, and we will have it again.’”
“Dan Van Epp…the former executive with the Howard Hughes Corp., the Rouse Co. and Newland Communities has been running a national real estate development consulting firm with his son. With General Growth Properties in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings, Van Epp says the remaining undeveloped parcels of Summerlin will be sold. Finding a buyer, however, won’t be easy. There is no appetite for raw land, and the prices people are willing to pay may not satisfy creditors, he says.”
“Two years ago, residential land in high-quality locations went for $1 million per acre, but now you are lucky to find a buyer for $100,000 per acre, he says. That is quite a comedown for Las Vegas. As for the healing of Las Vegas, Van Epp says Southern Nevada was the first place in the country to go through the downturn in the residential housing market and is likely the first market that will see an upturn because of the increased affordability. ‘We had the steepest decline in prices, and we now have single-family homes priced at half of what they were in 2003 and 2004,’ Van Epp says. ‘At that price, you make the single-family home a lot more attractive to a lot more people.’”
“Households with a single income cannot afford to buy a house in the Rhode Island area, according to a report Thursday from the Center for Housing Policy. The report found that a household needs $62,707 in annual income to afford a house priced at $193,000, the median at the end of 2008. It found a wide range of occupations that fell short of that mark, including: accountants, $51,016; nursing aides, $26,644; police officers, $50,059; janitors, $24,731, and retail sales clerks, $22,530.”
“‘It is clear that there’s still some gaps,’ said Brenda J. Clement, executive director of the Housing Action Coalition of Rhode Island. ‘The categories of jobs that are growing fastest in Rhode Island are those that have the biggest gaps.’”
“Ohio’s rise in foreclosures and slip in housing values can’t be blamed on a housing bubble, says the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. That’s because the state never had a bubble. Instead, Ohio’s problems are rooted in long-term economic challenges coupled with easy credit, according to a report released yesterday.”
“‘It wasn’t a housing boom in Ohio; it was a credit boom,’ said Emre Ergungor, a senior research economist with the Cleveland Fed. ‘The growth in credit still supported home prices, but of course we didn’t get a boom by California or Florida standards.’”
“At the peak of the national bubble, 2003 to 2005, Ohio’s home values rose 3 percent to 4 percent a year, compared with 14 percent to 21 percent a year in California and 12 percent to 27 percent a year in Florida, according to the Federal Housing Finance Agency. The report says the value of American homes has fallen by about $4.2 trillion since the end of 2006.”
“Meanwhile, homeowners continue to lose their properties: 342,000 American households received foreclosure notices in April, according to RealtyTrac Inc. The Federal Reserve recommends several sweeping steps to address the housing problems in the region covered by the agency — Ohio, western Pennsylvania, eastern Kentucky and the northern panhandle of West Virginia.”
“Among the recommendations: modifying loan terms of those facing foreclosure; allowing homeowners to remain as renters in their properties; demolishing vacant homes; and aggressively enforcing housing codes. Ergungor acknowledged that such steps won’t address the underlying causes of foreclosures and declines in housing values.”
“‘The first goal is to stop the decline’ in values, he said.”
“The suggestion that housing values could be stabilized by demolishing vacant homes applies more to cities losing population, such as Youngstown, than it does to Columbus, said Rita Parise, the city’s housing administrator. The report praised Youngstown’s demolition of more than 1,500 homes in the past three years. During the same period, Columbus demolished about 90 homes, Parise said.”
“‘Clearly Youngstown recognized that (its) situation is a significant decline in population,’ she said. ‘Columbus is frankly very different from most Ohio cities.’”
“With the housing market slow and two ranch condos not moving, builder Bob Antrobius figured he had to do something special to bring out the buyers. Why not throw in a free car?”
“So this Saturday and Sunday only, anybody who purchases one of the $123,900 condos at Emerald Lake Reserve gets a free 2009 Ford Focus SE. ‘You have to do extraordinary things in extraordinary times,’ said Antrobius, the 62-year-old vice president of R.R. Wellington Inc. ‘For two people, this is going to be the buy of a lifetime.”’
“The ranch condos are more than 1,300 square feet, with three bedrooms, two full baths and a full, unfinished basement. They have cathedral ceilings in the main living room/kitchen and attached two-car garages. Antrobius, a Tallmadge resident, described them as ‘high-quality, affordable housing.”’
“Stephen Melman, director of economic services at the National Association of Home Builders in Washington, D.C., said builders are offering more incentives to move properties, including upgrading appliances, flooring and cabinets at no charge. As for free cars? ”It’s not unheard of, but it’s extremely rare,’ he said. ‘I’m sure he’s going to have an incredible amount of traffic. I wish I lived in that part of Northeast Ohio. I’d buy the house.”’
“Housing has been a big player in today’s economic woes, from plummeting home values that were unrealistically high to begin with, to the overwhelming numbers of foreclosures that followed. Adding to the situation is the general reluctance of banks to lend money for new construction.”
“‘It’s a situation I’ve never dealt with. I’ve never been through anything as hard as this is right now,’ said Joe Devilbiss of Joseph F. Devilbiss Construction in Frederick . He has been in the construction business for more than 35 years.”
“Despite not having a signed contract in more than a year, builder Don Marshall remains confident things will improve, but it may take a few years. The downturn in the economy sparked an upturn in promoting his poetry. He started writing inspirational and biblically inspired poetry about 25 years ago. One poem, ‘Cloudy Skies,’ was written during hard times back in his native Ohio, but remains an inspiration for today’s tough times.”
“‘Sometimes when the road seems rough and steep, And the skies are cloudy and gray, Remember my friend, there’s one who cares, And would help you along life’s way,’ he recited from memory.”
“He had his poetry framed to sell and is working with an illustrator on a poetry book. Marshall visits churches, veterans groups and other ministry organizations with his inspirational writings. His message: ‘Just hang in there. We’ll work our way out of this as a country,’ he said.”
‘Ohio’s rise in foreclosures and slip in housing values can’t be blamed on a housing bubble, says the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland.’
If the Fed wants to save a few bucks on economists, just search this blogs archives for the mid-west. I’ve found references to booms, sprawl, massive overbuilding, all over the country. Of course, what else could we expect from the organization that completely missed the biggest financial mania in history and is largely responsible for it.
I guess the story of the housing bubble and the ongoing revisionism will be something that all of us here will contend with for many years to come. My thanks to those who support this blog. Please check back this weekend.
ARGHH. This guy is full of it!!
Two freakin’ years ago I took my pregnant wife to Appalachia-ish Ohio (Pike County) to meet 95 year-old great aunt. Neither of us could believe that there were spec homes in Waverly Ohio and along 23.
“I guess the story of the housing bubble and the ongoing revisionism will be something that all of us here will contend with for many years to come.”
You bet, I believe I posted my Ohio experience here at the HBB. Hell, there was one builder who had three models right there on the side of the road, in the middle of nowhere!!
“‘It wasn’t a housing boom in Ohio; it was a credit boom,’
OK, it’s pretty obvious to me that politics are the name of the game at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. I find it difficult to believe that people who focus on this stuff day in and day out could not easily deduce the housing bubble from the credit bubble. Were it not for the credit bubble, house prices in Ohio would have been declining this entire time, and people would have been able to see what was wrong with an economy where production is disregarded. It’s just not that hard to figure out.
I wonder how many e-mails and letters these guys received during their tenure explaining/warning them about today’s fallout? I can only conclude that they kept their mouths shut because they knew it was the only way to keep their jobs. And that can only happen if the person in charge (aka “The President”) has an agenda.
It’s a similar story in Tulsa: house prices went up moderately over the last decade, anywhere from 5% to 30% depending on the neighborhood, but the overall population has dropped since about 2001 by 5% per year, and it’s only seemed as steady as it is because of massive illegal immigration (about 17% of the population now).
But it’s different here! We aren’t affected by the credit bubble, and the recession won’t affect us! Now is a great time to buy, and the Tulsa market is one of the best in the country!
Good times.
Big V:
You asked the Trillion dollar question
I offer scenario #2 They had horrible clueless staffs who never read Ben’s Blog or can think outside the box.
For Example what if I, worked for Hillary, and i would point to HBB everyday and see all the stupid stuff going on….would she have kept her mouth shut?
————————————————————–
I can only conclude that they kept their mouths shut because they knew it was the only way to keep their jobs
Well said, Big V.
I’m pretty sure the Fed did see the situation in Ohio and surrounds as heading toward economic depression. They offered the solution………STIMULUS. Yes, my friends, STIMULUS. Get those easy money loans out the door. Backstop the foreclosures with write-downs and write-offs.
CREDIT. That’s what gets an economy going. CREDIT….. in rides the FED.
A “consumer” economy? Consumer economy?? Yes, we need consumers. Consumers. Give every loser in the world easy money to Consume America.
Somewhere some poor working slobs will make the stuff to keep consumption going.
Somewhere. We are the FED. We are here to help…………what a crock!
That is the current policy of the buffoons in the White House and CONgress. We are doomed.
Friday Desk Clearing Time
But, but, but… you haven’t been here all week. What could possibly need clearing from the desk that you most obviously haven’t been using for a week?
‘It’s not working, from what I can see,’ said realtor Konnie McKee. ‘I have not, literally, not talked to one person who has had a successful modification with their loan.’”
Well, of course it’s not working. Does one expect the holder of a not to accept less than principle? I don’t think so.
“‘The first goal is to stop the decline’ in values, he said.”
“The suggestion that housing values could be stabilized by demolishing vacant homes applies more to cities losing population, such as Youngstown, than it does to Columbus, said Rita Parise, the city’s housing administrator. The report praised Youngstown’s demolition of more than 1,500 homes in the past three years. During the same period, Columbus demolished about 90 homes, Parise said.”
I think we all expected this insanity eventually.
Oh, no’s - housing prices might become affordable, corrupt banks might go under, and plenty of crooked “home-moaners” who lied about their incomes to “buy” a house will lose their “wealth!”
Quickly, let’s destroy houses until there aren’t enough, that way housing can be way too expensive! And, while we’re at it, let’s get rid of extra food (while people starve) and maybe toss half the cars produced last year into the sea to let GM and Chrysler double their prices to make money. Oil’s gone down, too - maybe we can set up a way to burn a lot of that away for no productive gain to help the oil speculators.
Unreal, but in a world where making a quick buck is all that matters, I guess this makes sense.
My question is can such a thing be accomplished? And I would argue no, that housing will find it’s natural equilibrium again. If I am right, all these efforts are a waste of time and money. See Bernanke, Shiller, I just saved you years of mistakes.
I agree, but the frustrating part is the “years of mistakes” - that’s a lot of lost time for those of us “dolts” who played by the rules (no lying about our incomes, not participating in the poser/sham economy, etc.) Also, even as housing finds an equilibrium, there can - and will, IMHO - be a lot of collateral damage from tossing all these Bailouts around while not doing anything to address the causes of the problem.
What blows the mind is that GM etc are closing plants/dealerships all over the US, but not doing it in EU or Mex/China, but will import over 50k autos from china.
WTH is going on with our country, congress etc that they would want to completely dismantle our country?
c’est un monde sans frontières, vous savez…
AKA One World Order
They should be able to do whatever they want, just not with the help of the government and taxpayers.
To PonderingTheMess (and Ben) –
The years of “mistakes” may be just what the banking system needs to stay afloat. I noted last week that in the case of az_lender, a future annual depreciation rate of 7% would keep all my borrowers above water forever, whereas a 10% annual depreciation rate would put some of them slightly (and temporarily) under water, and (I thought) a 15%-20% annual dep. rate could encourage some of them to walk.
So my thinking is, although the banks’ mortgage interest rates are much lower than mine, they do benefit from trying to allow the amortization of some loans to keep pace with the depreciation. I.e., slow down the depreciation so it doesn’t get ahead of ALL the amortizations.
I’m pretty sure they’ll make those years of mistakes just the same.
Geez Ben, it works just like the teeter-totter in the kids playground…
on one end you have: house prices
on the end you have : the National income
the pivot in the middle: jobs slightly above the Federal minimum wage
and if the “house price” kid weighs 313 lbs… it may teeter or it may totter… but it won’t move much.
or the whole teeter-totter just breaks in half…
Ben, you’re right. It only takes one house to make a comp. It won’t help to destroy 1500 homes while another 500 undergo an REO fire sale.
That’s what they did during the Great Depression. Farmers set food on fire trying to force prices up at the market. Meanwhile, no one could buy the food and people starved. My thing, in that case, is that we should condone cannibalism too. By reducing the supply of ppl who want to buy houses, food, oil, cars, etc, we can reduce demand for those things, thereby keeping them affordable, and farmers can burn all the food they want because we will be eating ppl. Just don’t eat me, K?
Yes, but that will than not depress the prices of Soylent Green?
More unintended consequences…
2 Big V-Burgers coming up…would you like fries with your order ?
I’ll take a blood shake with those V burgers and fries
My thing, in that case, is that we should condone cannibalism too. By reducing the supply of ppl who want to buy houses, food, oil, cars, etc, we can reduce demand for those things, thereby keeping them affordable, and farmers can burn all the food they want because we will be eating ppl.
Hahahahaaha!
Man, yer one a them geniouses, clearly! That’s a super idea! As long as they had no cooties.
For instance, I would never want to eat a realtor because I don’t know where they’ve been, (especially lately as they attempt to make the mortgage, wink wink– nudge nudge.)
I’d really only want to eat free-range vegetarian tree-huggers if it was for nutrition and general cootie-lessness, but unfortunately, that would be a lot of my friends vanished onto the range-top or grill. And I eat a lot, so soon I’d be lonely. Sigh. Well, anyway, how about we make the realtors each each other, while we work out the plan details?
Just don’t eat me, K?
Very well, Big V.
*makes a studious note of it on a pink post-it *
Say, now that I think of it, didn’t Fasty boldly proclaim himself to be a ‘Perfect Omnivore’?
Now there’s an exciting new entry for his food blog! Huh huh huh!
‘Realtor roux’, ‘Builder in Bearnaise sauce’….betcha it tastes like chicken! (Evil chicken. Hahahaahah!)
Those demolitions might be telling part of bigger story, bigger even than the hosuing bubble/bust. We might just be seeing the death throes of the postwar era. The neighborhoods are no longer needed because the jobs and people who created them are gone for good. The bust is revealing what the boom masked.
Seriously, from what I’ve read about demolitions in the areas I have lived in, no matter how decrepit a house - someone always came out of the woodwork to prevent it. The fact that so many were demolished means that no one, at no price wanted those neighborhoods. Their demolition is therefore NOT reducing the housing supply.
The question is, how many more “obsolete” places are out there?
It’s not true that no one wants to buy any of these houses. I’m sure there are homeless ppl out there whith no money who would love to buy them for a dollar a piece (with no liens or taxes). They are only destroying them in a misguided attempt to force prices above actual values. It’s a huge waste of resources.
Not just how many more obsolete places, but where is the distribution of obsolescence?
It’s starting to look like Detroit is a completely obsolete city, proud history and good building stock notwithstanding.
Will Cleveland be the next to go? Buffalo? Gary? Elkhart? What about their suburbs? Will the rustiest of Rust Belt towns reach an equilibrium, even if that turns a city into a village?
That’s exactly what it might mean.
After all, from a geological (time) perspective the entire Fordist era might seem as fleeting as the Yukon gold rush.
“…The question is, how many more “obsolete” places are out there?”
Check out the Disney movie: Wall E
Ok, here’s a question: Where is Habitat for Humanity in all this?
Would they not serve their mission more effectively by purchasing these houses and giving them away, than constructing new houses?
Where is Habitat for Humanity in all this?
Ooh! Ooh! I can answer this one - I think.
If the goal is to increase the value of housing in the area, then putting what amounts to Section 8 housing (H4H) there, would definitely NOT achieve it.
I can tell you what’s happening in parts of Florida. As soon as a property gets overgrown with weeds or sits vacant, the code enforcement slap liens on the property.
Homes quickly have tens of thousands of dollars worth of liens and the owners walk away. No one can purchase the homes without paying the liens in cash so they get run down then torn down.
MD
Great point!!
“Quickly, let’s destroy houses until there aren’t enough, that way housing can be way too expensive!”
Updated version of Bastiat’s Broken Window Parable:
“The Parable of the Bulldozed McMansion”
These greed hungry flippers, property sharks and investment wolves were great promoters of Financial Survival of the Richest during the ‘Good Years”
It will be interesting to see how well they adapt to this reversal phase of social Darwinism, now that they have accquired an insatiable appetite for succulent little lamb chops and have appeared to have slaughtered the LAST of their available sheep.
mikey,
You don’t know the half of it. Over the last several years I’ve had to endure more snide remarks than you can shake a stick at! ( I suppose we ALL have )
Be it in-laws, neighbors, hell, people didn’t even have to KNOW you to boast of their exploits. We all knew they were “nickel millionaires” but they didn’t care? They just knew they were gettin’ their’s.
NOW… we have to deal w/ their despondence, frantic, panic on a daily basis as they attempt to “right the problem” by introducing more supply. I’m starting to fear this speculative mania will be with us, from this day forth.
Yeah DinOR,
They’re beginning to understand a principle my niece told me as a toddler..”I DON’T like pain…It HURTS!”
Even the mighty Panasonic and their 54″ HDTV’s are feelin the PAIN… from yahoo
Panasonic slumps to $4 billion yearly loss
http://tinyurl.com/o6bf2m
And after we demolish houses then we can build new ones and get the construction business going again. And we can do fancy city planning for “infill” building for all those empty lots!
“One of those borrowers is Diane Goodwin of Oceanside. She purchased FOUR INVESTMENT PROPERTIES. Including her own house, she has FIVE ‘Alt-A’ loans. THREE of the loans have been modified” ( emphasis mine )
Are you f@cking kidding me!? Ben, please tell me this was a misprint? Oh c’mon man, ‘this’ is clearly *not what was intended! Great, let’s give all the specuvestors every option in the world to pick and choose the properties they elect to keep and which ones to throw back. She must be one… smooth talker, OR they are w/ 5 different lenders and none of them are aware of the other 4 OR none of them want to see her “Parade of Cascading Defaults” land in their lap? Brilliant Diane!
This is a prefect example of moral hazard. Because I bet she’s trying to buy more properties at foreclosure prices because pretty soon they’ll all be selling at twice 2005 levels! And if not, she can get more government money to cover her mistakes.
sfbubblebuyer,
Whatever her motivations this gal is either connected, or doggedly persistent. Here we have all kinds of otherwise decent people people that can’t get their foot in the door on (1) modification ( their primary home ) and this gal finagles 3?!
What a waste of resources. From inception we’ve been assured that “wreckless speculators would not benefit from gaming the system!” Rally?
Oh and another thing, if “I” were her I sure as hell wouldn’t be talking about it to the press?
It’s a pity she didn’t mention any addresses.
Agree with your point, but it is always important to point out where the government gets most of its revenues. From the populace. I don’t know where all the giveaways are going to end. I sympathize with desertdweller’s outrage above… re. the country is being dismantled before our very eyes.
The UAW works in mysterious ways. Soon, no cars will be produced in this country, yet the union members will continue to get theirs.
Highway robbery.
I’m tempted to buy a Ford, but that company will be targeted and destroyed within a year or two.
You missed the most important lines:
The other two have reduced payments over the next five years and then adjust to payments Goodwin said she won’t be able to afford. “We have to deal with it in five years, but it at least gives us five years,” she said.
Kick the can with a NINJA refi. And she’s still trying to flip.
And you read she is saying already that when 2 of those loans adjust she will no longer be able to make the payments? All these programs are doing is kicking the can down the road.
BTW Has anyone seen the 10 month re-default rates on these loan mods? It’s not pretty.
BTW, since the main problem that led up to this mess was lenders’ not qualifying borrowers based on the worst-case scenario for the loan (max loan amt, max interest rate, shortest amortization period), it seems we are right back to step 1.
The lenders sell the loans for 80 cents on the dollar and what not. If they want to reduce it a little to keep the buyer in the house, it should be between them and the buyer. As long as the gov’t isn’t involved, I’m okay with workouts between buyers and lenders.
I think it’s pretty obvious by now that taxpayers are definitely on the hook one way or another.
Whether we directly bail out the banks, or offer up our money so hedge funds can leverage up and buy these “unwanted” toxic assets, WE are on the hook.
Trillions of dollars worth of guarantees, gifts and loans have been made on our behalf. At this point, the RE market belongs to the taxpayers.
‘The world is not wonderful right now,’ he said. ‘But it looks like spring is coming. We had financing once, and we will have it again.’
Shades of Scarlett:
“As God is my witness, as God is my witness they’re not going to lick me. I’m going to live through this and when it’s all over, I’ll never be hungry again.”
Frankly, m’dear, I don’t give a damn.
Tomorrow is another day, Taraaaaaaaa taraaaaa.
5 yrs is a pretty good head start. We shall see.
“Redlands-based senior economist John Husing says the depressed housing market is having a huge impact. We need to slow down the sale of foreclosures. That’s what this is all about.”
I am not a senior economist, but I thought it was about over-inflated valuations, and that foreclosures were the solution to get us back to normal. Guess I need some more education.
“Senior” implies experience. With all that experience, he didn’t notice prices were out of line at any point. They all seemed reasonable and sustainable, and then came those pesky foreclosures? Hopefully, he will be the next unemployment statistic. What value is he adding to anything? He just seems lost and confused.
Even better is his follow up quote : “The question is ‘how long before this whole thing starts to correct?’”
Um, does he think the price drops are an aberration that will eventually correct back to the high prices of 2006? And only go up from there?
I’d say he doesn’t qualify to be a JUNIOR economist, let alone a senior one. Junior crackhead, maybe.
A record high rate of foreclosures is apparently normal in Husing’s upside-down and underwater universe. A correction will be needed to get us back into bubble mania territory.
These are the quotes that really got to me, too.
Ummm, Mr. Husing, this **IS** the correction. What was going on from 2001-2006 was THE PROBLEM.
Another clown who thinks manipulating the market is the solution to our problems, amidst a sea of bloodshed resulting from market manipulation.
“Windsor, it turns out, was falling down a financial hole. A real estate investor who ran several property business, his troubles predated the recession but continued as the housing bubble burst and easy credit for businesses and consumers dried up.”
Desperate people can do desperate things. How much money does the average bank robber get? $2000.00, $5000.00? and now this fellow goes to prison on the taxpayers dime and leaves a family behind to deal with it.
And, to add insult to injury, the story says that he *attempted* to rob a bank at gunpoint. Which implies that his take was zero.
Speaking of rural, anyone here from Mississippi? Natchez is pretty… do people really pay that much for those houses?
“Bruce Windsor lived the life of a respectable family man — father of four, deacon in his South Carolina church, youth soccer coach, a volunteer who helped build orphanages in Brazil.
He was a South Carolina businessman
There’s that word again: South Carolina
What do you get if you combine South Carolina with Irvine CA?
A potential building site for the National GOP headquarters!
“Bruce Windsor lived the life of a respectable family man — father of four, deacon in his South Carolina church, youth soccer coach, a volunteer who helped build orphanages in Brazil.”
And you have no idea how many of these charlatans attend various non-denom churches. I’ve met them, I know them and they are like used car salesmen. The truth is everything they hear on Sundays and learn at various cells groups goes in one ear and out the other. It’s all about them.
The last will be first.
a volunteer who helped build orphanages in Brazil.”
Heck,lots of opportunities to ‘do good’ right here in his own backyard, which is what gripes me. It is so much sexier to ‘do good’ in another country than your own. Sheesh. Fix ours first, then go out and “do good”.
I know someone who is going to blow thousands of dollars on a “missionary” trip to Africa. I suggest that she would get a much bigger bang for her buck if she donated that money to a relief organization that could fund local missionaries in Africa and feed hungry kids at the same time.
Why condemn those trying to make the world a better place? While I’m not sure if missionaries are making the world a better place, I know plenty who have, and at least they’re trying in earnest. I think that should be encouraged, not ridiculed.
I was a peace corps volunteer, so i’ll always stick up for those who try.
‘missionaries’….I was a peace corps volunteer, so i’ll always stick up for those who try.
They aren’t the same thing, Adam.
The churches send these folks to foreign countries because they can’t get away with their conversion methods here. They go to recruit as much as help IMHO.
You should read about some missionaries some time rather than just spout off in ignorance. Try googling someone like Ira Scudder.
Armed robbery? He’s lucky he didn’t leave his kids orphans. Although I suspect he’s left his family destitute. I hope the mom has a job or can get one soon.
A few years ago a Christian group wanted to move members into upstate SC and then secede from the union. That made us want to move. It’s a fairly nice place to live especially if you like crazy people.
I meet a really kind fellow once from SC, a Q.A. expert (Black fella), he said: “Hwy, you’d love Savannah…until you open you mouth in public”
There are a great many wonderful people in SC. Unfortunately the idiots get in the news. I suspect that that is true everywhere, but the ones in SC are the ones I know about.
From the article:
Cases that have been in the news besides Windsor’s include a Georgia minister, a policeman in Illinois and a single dad in St. Louis — all blaming dire financial straits for their arrests.
Financial stress related crime knows no geographic boundary, nor does it pertain to one particular profession.
Phillygal gets prize for most sensible post in this disjointed thread.
Yes?
I will have to print this out and show it to the Old Man.
“Sensible” is not his most used adjective when referring to moi.
phillygal,
If Old Man doesn’t appreciate what he has, maybe it’s time to look for another Old Man
I wasn’t giving you TOO much gloss.
When you print it out to show the Old Bean, recall that my context was everything nested under and within the original comment from Exeter.
Which is no disrespect for E.
It just spurred a jumble of ideas.
Everyone in California is a leftist enviro-freak who eats tofu 4 times a day and says dude every 3rd word.
Aren’t stereotypes fun?
Quit plagiarizing Rash Limpbaughs
Just like everyone in Idaho is a libertarian-conservative gun-nut.
Hey, I resemble that remark.
Anyone can be upstanding when life is a breeze. Throw a little wrench in the works, then watch who’s left standing. “Though shalt not steal”, bro.
Yes. It is only in the worst of times that we recognize our heroes.
“…..it’s easy not to go down the drain when you don’t live in a sink.”
a line from a book I read when I was young and really wish I could remember who wrote it.
“….it’s easy not to go down the drain when you don’t live in a sink…”
Nelson Algren- A walk on the wild side
father of four, deacon in his South Carolina church, youth soccer coach, a volunteer
Like my car? It’s new. I even have a membership at the local golf club. How do I do it? I’M IN DEBT UP TO MY EYEBALLS! Somebody please help me…
hahahaha- Oxide.
Keep that grin BIG!
…and all of his friends, neighbors and the even local police used to think John Wayne Gacy was just a happy go lucky… CLOWN !
Adore that ad. The look on his face!
“‘We have to deal with it in five years, but it at least gives us five years,’ she said.”
I’d like to give her 5 years of her starring in the mirror repeating everyday, over & over:
“Ain’t I smart!”… Ain’t I smart” “Ain’t I smart!”… Ain’t I smart” “Ain’t I smart!”… Ain’t I smart”"Ain’t I smart!”… Ain’t I smart” “Ain’t I smart!”… Ain’t I smart” “Ain’t I smart!”… Ain’t I smart”
Hey Mr. Bear, which side of the ocean do you thinks she resides?
“Stephen Melman, director of economic services at the National Association of Home Builders in Washington, D.C., said builders are offering more incentives to move properties, including upgrading appliances, flooring and cabinets at no charge. As for free cars? ”It’s not unheard of, but it’s extremely rare,’ he said. ‘I’m sure he’s going to have an incredible amount of traffic. I wish I lived in that part of Northeast Ohio. I’d buy the house.”’
Why is it that people see this as a free car and not a car you’re financing for 30 years? If I was remotely interested in any of these things and they were giving away ‘free blah’, I would tell them to keep their stupid car/upgrades and drop the price of the house. And I would specify where they should keep said freebies.
the buyers should have negotiated for a lower home price by the same value of the car and tell them to stick the car up where the sun don’t shine.
But a $10K car adds $20K in value… or something.
Yes, but that kills the comps.
Hey Chrissy Cox, you’re doin’ a heckva a job!”
Oh, wait, your back in Newport Beach,CA now, …my bad.
Two SEC Lawyers Investigated by FBI on Insider-Trading Concerns:
“…Kotz has stepped up internal probes at the agency since he was appointed in December 2007, questioning the regulator’s policies, personnel decisions and handling of investigations. The SEC inspector general is responsible for conducting independent probes to detect waste, fraud and abuse.”
Bloomberg news By David Scheer and Jesse Westbrook
Sorry, wrong thread… ;-(
“‘We have to deal with it in five years, but it at least gives us five years,’ she said.”
OK, fine. You want to rent a few houses at a really expensive price from the bank for 5 years, then sublet it at a loss to someone else, go ahead. Because that makes all sorts of sense. So much sense I’m starting to itch about it.
‘I have not, literally, not talked to one person who has had a successful modification with their loan.’”
“McKee deals with foreclosures and short sales. Clients come to her, when the loan workouts don’t work.
OK, clients come to you when their workouts don’t work, and none of your clients had a successfull modification. DUH! They wouldn’t have come to otherwise. Something is wrong with the people involved in this whole thing, I swear.
Since this is California, I am trying to understand what might wear out quicker… a hot bod or a loan mod.
“…The report found that a household needs $62,707 in annual income to afford a house priced at $193,000, the median at the end of 2008. It found a wide range of occupations that fell short of that mark, including: accountants, $51,016; nursing aides, $26,644; police officers, $50,059; janitors, $24,731, and retail sales clerks, $22,530.”
(”Repeat” …Hwy’s parrot, has learned another new phrase):
“Squuuuaaaaaak, Squuuuaaaaaak… are we there yet”
“Squuuuaaaaaak, Squuuuaaaaaak… are we there yet”
“…The report found that a household needs $62,707 in annual income to afford a house priced at $193,000, the median at the end of 2008.”
We just saw in yesterday’s California thread that $500,000 is a low-priced home. I guess not many Californians can afford houses, then?
Yeah, I thought it was weird that John F said that. Then he covered up his tracks by claiming that “decent” is represented by 2x median. Median is median, folks. What’s not to understand? I can’t wait until the day when I no longer have to hear people defending the notion that a house in CA shoud go for no less than $500k, or that anyone who lives in a house for which they did not pay at least $500k is some sort of crumb.
“…yesterday’s California thread that $500,000 is a low-priced home”
Actually, Irvine, CA… resembles that remark!
It always confuses my ca neighbors who are convinced prices will start going back up any day now when I ask them “could you afford to rebuy your house?”
They always say no.
Then I say “So who exactly is going to buy these houses at these prices?”
The best they can come up with is Google.
I then say “Google shares are off by 50%. So by your logic, house prices should be down 50%. I’ll buy when they get there.”
I heard that “prices will go up” thing from a couple of people this morning. Using the facts and logic that comes from this blog, I was able to refute their (bogus) argument.
Am I missing something?
The comparison should be between the median home price and the median income. It doesn’t matter that there are some people who can’t afford the median housing price, because they could afford houses cheaper than the median.
I do agree that the mortgage should be compared with one income, or one income and change. The second income is for savings — downpayment, education, retirement — and charity. Do it that way, and the mortgage value will be low enough to make the payment on one income.
Wow, we needed a report to figure out that you can’t afford more than 3X income? That’s a crying shame, that’s like putting together a study to show that 2 + 2 = 4.
I get so annoyed when I see all these fancy equations for figuring out what’s “affordable”. It does nothing but confuse people; those “sophisticated” equations told me (3 years ago) that I could afford a home that was 10X my income (using a negative AM loan). There’s NO need for sophistication here people, take your household income, multiply by 3. Don’t even CONSIDER buying a home over that number. If you have a lot of debt, or don’t make over the median salary, don’t buy over 2X your household income.
Pretty much that simple.
In a “normal” San Diego market people were paying 4 to 5 times income.
Once read a publicly financed study that said that soil was essential for growing crops. Footnotes and everything.
I would double check those police officer incomes. The figure given is without overtime. Add in overtime and they make plenty to buy a house. A very nice house at that.
When will the myth of the starving civil servant be put to rest?
Can you really count overtime as steady income to pay a long term debt? Doesn’t seem like a good idea to me.
I had a friend that made something like $170K in a year at the Ford plant. It just involved working 12 hours every day, for 360 days in the year. He can look back at the one year, but that doesn’t really mean his yearly income was that high every year.
That may be the case at a Ford plant (and Jesus, $170K a year for an assembly line worker and people wonder why the Big 3 are dying??).
But you’re comparing apples to kiwis here. Police work is steady year in year out. Overtime is considered steady income for police officers and fire fighters. It’s part of the game they play. Pay a salary of $50K, cry poor, get city to increase to $55K next year. Repeat next year All the while, everyone involved makes an extra $50K in overtime that nobody ever mentions in the media. And that $50K overtime is also counted towards retirement calculations.
“And that $50K overtime is also counted towards retirement calculations.”
Wow, didn’t know that. Seems sheisty.
KJ,
That’s not true anymore. Most cities are cutting police and fire because of budget problems. Those were the days my friend, We thought they’d never end, We’d sing and dance forever and a day, We’d live the life we choose, We’d fight and never lose, For we were young and sure to have our way. La la la la… Those were the days, oh yes those were the days.
Most cities are cutting police and fire because of budget problems.
Boy, that’s de troof. We’re losing a TON of deputies here in Thurston county, WA. The sheriff, Dan Kimball, a very decent guy, is presently suing the county commissioners over it.
just what I want police and firemen half awake from working 80 hours a week
KJ,
Do YOU work overtime for no pay?
If they are working overtime, then they certainly deserve to be paid for it.
They’ve done studies that show it’s less expensive to have them work overtime than to hire additional people to cover those O/T shifts.
Also, overtime does NOT count toward retirement that I’m aware of.
Overtime wasn’t counted in the 90s by the underwriters.
You had to have proven, long term, printed examples and notes from your Co that you would always have overtime.
But that was in the 90s. 94 to be exact. Those underwriters were tough. Then.
“Keeping up to 9 million Americans from losing their homes. That’s the objective of the making home affordable program. On Thursday, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner and Housing Secretary Shaun Donovan said 58,000 homeowners have been able to get through the system so far.”
58,000 down, 8,942,000 to go. Keep on digging, boyz!
“making home affordable program”. Will the double speak never stop?? Doesn’t anyone else realize what they are trying to do with these programs is slow the price declines, thereby KEEPING PRICES HIGHER, and therefore UNAFFORDABLE to more people?
Sometimes my head feels like it’s going to roll off my shoulders. FNM/FRE’s stated mission is help stimulate housing affordability. To be accomplish their mission, they should walk into work tomorrow and close down operations. They distort the market upwards (by reducing the cost of loans), running TOTALLY COUNTER to their stated mission. The NINJA loans/FRE/FNM all work to makes home unaffordable, NOT the other way around.
I swear, it’s like I’m in the twilight zone sometimes.
Anyone that claims to be against foreclosures while also claiming to be in favor of affordable housing is a liar or a fool. Anyone that devotes any portion of their life to supporting ACORN and its contradictory, confused and misguided efforts is probably both. The inconsistencies are so glaring a mentally disabled child could spot them 10 minutes or less. The “Protect My Equity So I Can Retire Early Regardless of My Poor Decisions, and Denial of Affordable Housing to New Entrants or Those Desiring to Live Within Their Means Program” is too wordy and sends an accurate but all too clear message.
Michael,
Government agencies with their double speak nomenclature irks me to the core. Here in Maryland when food stamps were replaced with a high-tech mag striped card that could be scanned like a credit card was named “INDEPENDANCE” card - with graphic images of eagles, wrapped in red, white and blue.
Way cooler than my VISA card - remove two letters… IN and you have the appropriate name DEPENDANCE card. UUUGH to gov’t pukes.
Amen, Michael!
check this out. We were at a home builder open house two weekends ago. We ran into one of the first homeowners and started talking to him. It turned out that this guy has a bad credit from foreclosing his investment properties. So, I went on to ask him how the heck can he still afford a 500K home? his reply was the most if not all the homeowners in this developments have an Rent-toOwn agreement with the builder. Basically, they are paying high rent in hope of a market turn around. In the meantime, they are helping the builder as a life support. Very interesting concept.
Scams like that have been showing up on Craigslist ever since 2006.
Those scams have just about ruined Craigslist. Rent to own spam makes it just about impossible to find a legitimate listing.
“‘The effort is embarrassing,’ said Howard Ullman, a Deerfield Beach attorney. ‘Every day we see billions of more dollars being funded into these lenders, and they are foreclosing like crazy.’”
Obviously the TARP would have worked much better as a foreclosure rescue plan if $700 bn had been funneled into the bank accounts of households at risk of foreclosure, rather than into Megabank, Inc’s black hole balance sheets.
“‘The first goal is to stop the decline’ in values, he said.”
This gets right to my tinfoil hat post at the end of yesterday’s bits bucket. Fed spokesmen keep hinting that stopping the decline in home values is a policy objective.
“This gets right to my tinfoil hat post at the end of yesterday’s bits bucket. Fed spokesmen keep hinting that stopping the decline in home values is a policy objective”.
Yep, that’s part of this plan I keep hearing about. It can not be done, so ‘they’ will keep wasting time and other peoples money on a no win proposition. I guess since the gubmint thinks we can change the climate, keeping home prices up should be a piece of cake. Idiots.
The scariest part of them saying that is it reveals how far behind the curve they are. People want to think that they’ve gotten out ahead of this.
“A Florida Supreme Court task force on home foreclosures plans to propose uniform case management and design a model mediation program to deal with the glut of foreclosure cases tying up the state’s legal system. Fort Lauderdale attorney Eric Schwartz, who represents licensed mortgage lenders, wants mediation to be addressed on a case-by-case basis.”
“‘It takes two to tango, and oftentimes we have files where the defendants are totally unresponsive and are not living at the property any longer,’ Schwartz said. ‘To have [mediation] applied in those types of circumstances would be a waste of everyone’s time and money.’”
Oh, for crying out loud. Why are people even suggesting mediation in the first place? It’s like having neighbors go to mediation over one neighbor’s barking dog. (And that, folks, is part of the animal noise complaint process in this-here Pima County.)
As for the barking dog, just let the $%^&! thing back in the house, already.
Poisoned meatballs work too!
OT
Here’s a VERY good one for the Bears.
___
Renowned technician Robert Prechter is sounding the bear alarm: He warns that the current rally isn’t sustainable, and that the S&P 500 index could drop to half its March lows.
According to Reuters, Prechter, who correctly forecasted the 1987 stock market crash, stamped out the “green shoots” statement recently put forth by Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke.
“It’s not the start of a new bull market,” Prechter, chief executive of research firm Elliott Wave International, said. “Our models are (showing) right now that it is a much bigger bear market than most people realize, something along the lines of 1929-1932.”
Prechter continued to describe the current scenario as a very rare event, and said he expects another leg down in stocks to possibly be as severe, if not more severe, than the declines suffered in 2008 and 2009.
“Deflation is coming,” he said. “We’re not at the bottom yet… I think we are going to have bouts of deflation separated by recoveries.”
“…I think we are going to have bouts of deflation separated by recoveries.”
Look to nature, a lot of things occur in “waves”. Ebb and flow is the rhythm of life.
Prechter has a point there.
Markets do not generally move in straight lines in one direction only.
As applied to the housing market, this means that we should be expecting one or more “dead cat bounces” as the market corrects back toward (and likely through and below) the long-term trend line.
I’m actually a little bit surprised that the Case Schiller chart is still pointing straight down. Wile E. Coyote should have hit one or two tree branches or ledges by now. But the anvil is still just a few beats above his head.
I don’t think housing is like stocks. The illiquidity of housing prevents some of the zigging and zagging.
So, Prechter is expecting Dow 3300? Aha, that matches my oft-repeated prescription for a visit to the inflation-adjusted version of the 1974 low (Dow 594, multiply by something like 5, equals Dow 3000).
Here in San Diego, we’re experiencing quite a dead cat bounce. The most powerful since 2003/2004.
I’m hearing this about other areas as well.
..
I have been reading this blog for the last four years and today I need to make an announcement.
I just bought a house. In Central Florida.
I grew tired of waiting, renting, waiting and renting. Got a 100% financing USDA Rural Development loan and bought a tidy 3bdr/2ba home in Haines City, right outside of Winter Haven and seven miles from my job ( been there 15 years ).
It was not a foreclosure, not a short sale. Home was purchased for $137,200 total (including all points) and the APR is 5.3%. Seller paid all closing costs and because of a HELOC, they had to bring money to the closing table. Tough for them…they shouldn’t have taken out almost $35,000 against the home in 2006. I paid about $100 per sqft but its REALLY a nice home. Built in 2001, before the Mexicans threw-up the McMansions, this is a sturdy block home in an established neighboorhood with very good…shall we say…”demographics”. Last home there sold last fall for 140K and its across the street. ‘Hood has less that 10% renters.
What I have found is that, as you all know, there are many foreclosures in Florida. Most are bigger than 2000sqft and were shoddily built from around 2004-2008. Many are wood frame or stucco/slab, not good for Florida after about 20 years. Yes you can get a big McMansion for 150K down here. What most people don’t factor is the property taxes will cost you $3500+/yr on a McMansion because they still use the 2007-2008 “fair market values”. Insurance is much higher on these homes as well; and about 90% of them are in HOA’s and HOA fees are running an additional $200-$300 per month in McMansionville. Most of these houses aren’t in established neighboorhoods either.
I wanted to be in a seasoned, established neighboorhood without the hassle of HOA fees. Also, I didn’t want the hassle of a swimming pool ( almost all McMansions down here have cheaply built in-ground pools ). I have a boat that I take out on weekends and thats when I swim. HOA’s don’t allow boats, RV’s etc. I wanted to be in a settled middle class neighborhood that didn’t have Wealth Pretenders.
During my search I also found that well-built homes in decent neighboorhoods ( not in far-flung McMansionville HOA’s ) are selling if they are reasonably priced. I looked at alot of stuff that was built during the boom and its already turned into junk.
Also, the foreclosures and short-sales are sold “as is” and the banks will not budge from the asking prices nor will they contribute towards closing costs.
So the math worked out like this:
1) Pretensious, poorly built McMansion foreclosure with high taxes, high insurance and HOA fees = ~$1300/mo
-or-
2) Sturdily built, 1400sqft cinder-block home built in 2001 with reasonable taxes in quiet established neighborhood with NO restrictive HOA = $ 975/mo.
I chose #2. I was also weary of renting and looked at about 25 homes before I made my decision ( actually I looked at ALL available homes on the internet MLS ). Some looked good in the pictures but they failed driveby inspection ( neighborhood, unseen damages, etc )
One last thing. Lots of homes here in Central Florida boast “new roof in 2004/2005″. Buyer beware. Those new roofs were put on because the 2004 hurricanes blew them off. Many of these homes have water damage behind the walls. Not all of them, but several do.
Anyhow, wish me luck. Now I am strapped with a mortgage.
Good luck!
975 is doable, and it is a sturdy /well built home.
I would love for my rent to go down that much, or buy a well built home in a good neighborhood with 975 being my monthly nut.
And, although I love using a pool daily, when not working, they are indeed expensive.
Les,
Good for you. I happen to consider anything from 2001 “Pre-Bubble Construction” anyway. So I get your point, my wife and I looked and looked in Vegas for a workable 2nd home and everything built from 2002 to 2007 was so hastily slapped together, it just didn’t warrant any further investigation.
We started thinking “mid-century modern” in an older more established neighborhood. With uh… trees?
With uh… trees?
Trees are the answer, baybee.
To everything.
We planted 10 new apple, pear, and peach
trees this week and three nice shade trees
today…it is now time for a beer.
Beer is the answer, baybee.
To everything. (Maybe almost as much as trees, even.)
“2) Sturdily built, 1400sqft cinder-block home built in 2001 with reasonable taxes in quiet established neighborhood with NO restrictive HOA = $ 975/mo
$ 975…Congrats Les Pendens!
So, you’re renting from the bank for the next 30 years with no chance of a rent increase…job well done, enjoy! I hope you have good neighbors!
(my sister & bil may live near you…are you by a golf course on the East of town?
No.
That golf course would be “Greenleafe” and they have a strict HOA. But some good deals in there too. Very nice area and well established. I could afford one of the condos or townhouses but not the homes on the golf course however.
I will live south of Haines City. Its a Haines City address but its actually in Lake Hamilton….
It makes me nervous, signing a mortgage. But I had to do this if I ever wanted anything in this life to call “my own home”.
Renting sucks.
Renting sucks, why? Was it actually more expensive? Or did you have a lousy LL?
I am not questioning your decision to buy — you found a decent deal, apparently — but have you now joined the ranks of the “ALL renting sucks” ideologues?
Good luck and congratulations.
I recall Haines City as a mellow place, far enough from I-4 not to hear it but close enough to use, if needed.
Enjoy the orange blossoms.
But since you say you work in those parts, you probably are used to them.
Oh, and thanks for the on-the-ground financial details, too.
Good luck.
“I paid about $100 per sqft but its REALLY a nice home.”
Sounds good. SD housing prices are stuck at around $200/sqft, according to Radar Logic.
Congratulations. Sounds like you did your homework. I hope it works out for you, and thanks for the new roof tip…I hadn’t thought about that.
Yes, I wanted to thank Les for that new roof tip, also. And my congrats on the purchase. Ya done good, brothah! Enjoy your weekend boating, that’s what Florida is all about, that’s why we live here. Boating, fishing, swimming, tubing. Lake Hamilton is nice.
Good luck. Now tell us about your garden plans! Gonna have an herb garden, right?
Oly,
We start planting our 5000 sq. ft. garden
tomorrow……
Man, what a teasing statement. Totally aggravating, my good sir, and don’t tell me you didn’t know this when you typed it in.
Like, how many rows are of beets, and how many rows are beans, and what kinds of beans, and did you plant chard? And garlic, and other exciting stuff like that!
Come on, tell! And do it all thoroughly and sensuously and luxuriously-like!
Hahahaah!
…Sigh. That is the one and only drawback of living in the deep dark forest. It took me a long time to carve out a spot that would grow something besides moss, and it took an even longer time to barricade this tiny spot so that deer couldn’t get in and eat every single thing the minute it popped up.
Man, I seriously hate deer. I recall the long ago time when I was pleased to see those stupid deer…
Like I say, a LONG time ago!
*grumble *
What’s your problem? ….you’re a meat eater. Think of it as bait.
Good for you. Just to put your wait in persepctive, here in NY we had to wait seven years after the 1980s bubble burst (1987 to 1994) just to buy a house for what it was actually worth. If the correction is happening faster this time, so much the better.
“‘We had financing once, and we will have it again.’”
Yes. Yes you will. Long after your company is sold in bankruptcy, the remaining assets liquefied and all the creditors satisfied, someone will come along, lease your old office, change the name on the door and get a loan for something.
“Despite not having a signed contract in more than a year, builder Don Marshall remains confident things will improve, but it may take a few years. The downturn in the economy sparked an upturn in promoting his poetry. He started writing inspirational and biblically inspired poetry about 25 years ago.
How is it that no one has gotten excited about the wondrousness of this fellow? A builder AND he writes bad poetry?! What a find! Most people can only manage to be marginally aggravating. This fellow is seriously aggravating. Maybe even a Journeyman Aggravator.
He’s not quite a Master, because for one thing, his name isn’t choicely irritating and interesting enough. (In fact, one of my humanities professors in college was named ‘Don Marshall’. Fabulous fellow, which taints the name in this particular case.)
Oh, if only his name was ‘Otis T. Spifford’, or else perhaps ‘Bubba K. Jewkes’, and he also wore polyester leisure suits with argyle socks…
Then he’d be a perfect specimen.
And he should have a toy-poodle that he addresses in gurgley tones and regularly interrupts conversations with in order to kiss it on the lips, and it should be named…Princess, or else Duchess. Of course. And there should be bronzed baby-shoes on his piano, next to the dusty silk flowers.
Hey Oly,
Nice to see that you’re up and still alive and kicking.
Thanks! I’m feeling perkier by the minute, as a matter of fact, and you know why?
Because the schadenfreudey events are sprinkling down hereabouts like daisy petals today and thereby enhancing my well-being wayyyy better than aspirins or even beer*.
*Yes, you heard me! Better than BEER!
Wow, today was freakin’ a Schadenfreude Festival! I must type up some crap, and then I shall tell you all the weepyyyyyyy details.
Boyfriend , ahh, meant to say, EX-boyfriend, got ran over by a slow moving cement truck?
…got ran over by a slow moving cement truck?
…You know, strangely enough he didn’t hear the beeping and clashing gears in time to dodge out of the way…
Actually, no. It was a decision I deliberately and maturely made. (Because that would make his mom sad, and she’s a nice lady.)
Anyway, moving on! You, Mr. Muir, distracted me from my original, and reality-based schadenfreude:
I spent a bit of today trying to track down actual current raw-land prices hereabouts and no one wants to dish on what has transpired in the ‘Magical Spring Selling Season’ in wonderful and ‘different’ Thurston County.
It’s exasperating, but my exasperation is tempered by the thought that if things were going well that I would hear exuberance in the voices of agents and their assorted p*m*ps. Instead of what I do hear. Which is weary fright.
BWHAHAHAHAAHAH!
From Bits
recipe
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/40-a-day/bacalao-guisado-codfish-stew-recipe/index.html
I did my minus the tomatoes and it was mouthwatering.
___
Fl already has some places at 1997 prices.
Land crashed on the West Coast (Cape Coral thereabouts) to 1997 prices, which were strangely enough $0.
Yes, land was free for back taxes in 1997 and again in 2009.
Should probably post it tomorrow.
But if I don’t, you got to read it.
Inspirational and Biblically inspired poetry? No, no one wants to read that, sorry pal. Throw it on the internet and try to get some ad revenue. Other than that, no. I said no.
Inspirational and Biblically inspired poetry? No, no one wants to read that, sorry pal.
Yar, isn’t that just horrid to even contemplate? I’d rather have a visit from an earnest van-load of Jehovah’s Witnesses!
)
(No offense to any JW’s out there. Really.
Look, when we’re all dead and have been sent to our just reward then you can bring me some muffins there in my condo in He*ll, and I’ll admit that you were right, and I will express sincere regrets that I ran away into the woods when I saw you coming. Will that please you?
But my point, is, gosh: If I want to read truly horrible poetry, then I will freakin’ go ahead and write it myself!
Hey…I just got back from church up street the you little heathens! According to these people, I am much loved and always welcome there. It’s a big church and I am beginning to suspect that they think that I am a member. Everybody seems to think that they know me and sometimes they ask me “Where were you last Sunday?”( sleeping as usual I suppose).
Anyway, they have a great Friday night fish fry and the nice ladies there always feed me until me until I’m ready to pop. This little church thingy arangement satisfies 2 problems.
1. No dishes to wash on Friday nights…problem solved.
2. I can always answer “YES” when my mom calls and asks if I’ve been to church lately…problem solved.
I suppose that I should pray for Big V and Olygals soul’s next week. Nah, I might miss seconds and thirds and the little kids would definitely finish off all the root beer if I goof off!
I suppose that I should pray for Big V and Olygals soul’s next week.
Besides being a waste of time, more or less. Hahaha! (speaking just for me, Big V, of course.)
But more importantly, we would never want you to miss seconds or thirds on good fried fish. Why, good fried fish is better than salvation, anytime*.
*I assume so, anyway. I’ve never had salvation, but I’ve had some good fried fish, with tartar sauce and lemons. Does salvation come with tartar sauce and lemons? If not, I don’t want it.
I’m bad Olygal..but you’re going 2 levels below the Devil.
Government agencies with their double speak nomenclature irks me to the core. Here in Maryland when food stamps were replaced with a high-tech mag striped card that could be scanned like a credit card was named “INDEPENDANCE” card - with graphic images of eagles, wrapped in red, white and blue.
Way cooler than my VISA card - remove two letters… IN and you have the appropriate name DEPENDANCE card. UUUGH to gov’t pukes.
I don’t like that either. I know it’s a ticky thing, and could so easily edge into intolerance and snottiness, which I deeply disapprove of, but if you’re getting tax-payer assistance—like from tax-payers such as me, who grew up on beans and poached venison and school-lunches and went to college by working three jobs and so forth?
Then you should da*m*n well be holding a card that beeps loudly and reads: ‘Someone else is paying for this’.
I don’t mind if it’s buying veggies and fresh fruits for kiddies. Actually, I’d pay extra for that, and gladly.
But the last truly gigantic woman I saw, who would make about 6 of me if she were parsed out, was buying a cart-load of potato chips and other junk food with one of those ‘Lets pretend I’m not a parasite’ cards.
It made me grumpy.
Mmmmmm…..”poached” venison (and I don’t mean boiled). Did your parents have a garden too?
I found another hole in the activity of the past few years. Recently I reviewed an appraisal report on a home in a very large PUD in the Florida.
I began by looking through MLS and found some of the closed sale quesitonable at best. This report was written in late 06′ and the appraiser used only MLS sales. Normally I would be happy he did so as I could easligl contact agents for verification as well as use the public records. Even then it is possible to get 1/2 a story.
I then used an alternative service for research and found several sales at about 30% below the value derived by the appraiser. Keep in mind the falling market in Florida.
As I began to dig deeper it became painfully obvious the builders were dumping homes and keeping it pretty quiet so it might fly below the radar in the hopes of keeping the appraisal community in the dark.
I use the term appraiser here for clarity of identification because this idiot is not an appraiser as he pulled the highest sales in the neighborhood and went blind on the builder dumping. The key to my interest was a statistic from the period that building permits had dropped YOY by 87%. That is when I got interested in builder acitivty.
I sent in my review and my value was significantly lower. Two months went past and I received a rebuttal from a government agency hoping to to make my client cough up the loss.
Ain’t gonna happen dude! I gotchyou! Damn I love it.
I don’t understand. What was your client’s objective, and what did the govt agency want from him or her?
Was this a govt-backed loan? I believe you are involved in fraud research for some banks/agencies, no?
Does this mean that the appraiser did not use non-MLS sales, and do you think the builder was intentionally trying to hide the sales numbers?
Very interesting, and your reports are always greatly appreciated.
CA renter- you would be hard pressed to find a non government backed loan as I see them as the catchall for any loan.
The issue was two fold. The appraiser did not bother to look at builder sales, the ones leading the market down and relied on BS MLS sales.
People got qualified for say $300,000. What did they do? They went to a Realtor, letter in hanorand said, “WE can afford this much.” Realtard looking to max his commission showed them $300 up and sold them on that when there were builders dumping houses for $50,000 less, new. The MLS folks were way upside down in many cases and the spread just kept widening.
Had these azzs looked around and taken their time they could have more house for little money but that qualification letter had a time fuze on it so they rushed into bad deals.
No skin gamblers always lose.
Oh sorry….rest of the story….the rebuttal said I should not use builder sales but only MLS.(builders don’t use MLS) That works fine in an escalating market but when the builders drive a market down….no way MLS is the market.
It is the lowest seller who sets the market in a declining environment Einstein, and the builders were the early warning system. DUH!
I suspect the market drove on stupidly for a year or so after builders began dumping.
Busy,busy,busy…..
Great story.
(Didn’t understand the client paying the gov part, but followed the rest nicely)
Client=Mortgage insurer
Oh, so the insurance company won’t pay if they can show the appraisal to have been improperly done? That’s nice, if I’m understanding you correctly.
Okay, sorry for my questions that you’ve already answered. Didn’t scroll down before posting.
Yes- even the government is going after mortgage insurance if they own the loan or inherited it….I can’t even recall how many ways it can end up in a GSE….lost count….at any rate if someone ends up with the paper they are going to do everything they can to get the money….if an insurer can make a case for poor due diligence(underwriting) it is the lenders problem.
There is plenty of reason to suspect poor underwriting as I can’t see that much was done. I am even reviewing reports with post mortem reviews attached that support erroneous values. We call them collusive Kool aid.
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