May 31, 2009

A Lack Of Scrutiny In Florida

The Miami Herald reports from Florida. “Adjustable-rate mortgages, or ARMs, popular during the housing boom, have lost both their appeal and the advantage they once offered borrowers. With the decline in home values, most South Floridians with option ARMs are, at best, stuck with them for now, unable to refinance in a conventional manner because their loan is upside-down. ‘If I would have known what was going to happen, I would have gotten a fixed rate,’ said Ronald Rostran, who bought a new three-bedroom, two-bath house in Homestead in the summer of 2007 for $250,000. ‘We thought we could stay in the house for two or three years and then sell it. I had no idea.”’

“Rostran planned to turn a profit in the housing boom. Now his hours as a truck driver have been drastically reduced and he is several months late on his $1,700 mortgage payment. More than a refinance, he’s looking for a loan modification. To top it off, the builder in his development is now selling new houses like his for $180,000 — $70,000 less than he paid. ‘Yes, for me it has been a nightmare,’ he said.”

“Mariah Fox has been trying unsuccessfully to refinance her ARM and is hoping she’ll qualify for one of the new federal packages that help people with upside-down loans. Fox bought her home in South Miami-Dade in 1998 with a fixed-rate mortgage at 8.5 percent interest. By 2005, the value of her home had more than doubled, to $172,000. She decided to refinance with an option ARM, borrowing an additional $20,000, for a new mortgage of $105,000.”

”’I wanted to repair the house and go through graduate school without being stressed out,’ said the mother of three. ‘There wasn’t much fear about [an ARM] then and the plan was to refinance in a couple of years before it started readjusting. At the time, it seemed like a good idea.”’

“The ARM started readjusting monthly in late 2008. Her house is now appraised at $100,000, down from $140,000 last year when she first tried to refinance. And her loan principal has grown to $117,000 because the minimum payment she recently has been making doesn’t cover the monthly interest due. ‘I’ve put lots of money into the house in the last six years and it’s all a wash,’ Fox said. ‘I’m going deeper into a hole every month.’”

“‘Most of our loan consultants wouldn’t put somebody in an adjustable unless it was their intent to be out of the house before it reset,’ said said Chris Buttafuoco, managing director of residential lending at Great Florida Bank. ‘We used it as a vehicle for folks not planning to be in the home long-term.”’

The Orlando Sentinel. “A troubled developer in the Four Corners area near Walt Disney World, sued by British investors after the vacation homes for which they paid thousands weren’t built, has now sought protection from its creditors in bankruptcy court. The company owes creditors a total of $184 million.”

“So far, only 96 town houses have been completed and prepared for occupancy. Of the 972 units planned for the site, 370 have purchase contracts but haven’t gone to closings. Tierra del Sol started to send buyers letters asking for contract extensions — and more money to finish the construction. ‘They started calling and trying to get me to sign another contract and pay double [the price],’ said Tom DeNapoli, who said he paid a $27,000 deposit for a four-bedroom town house that was supposed to be completed in 2005. He asked for his deposit back but never got it.”

“‘It certainly negated any other [investment] opportunity I might have had. Look at the history of this company. … I don’t think I’m going to get my money back,’ DeNapoli said.”

The New York Times. “Off the turnpike here in central Florida, hidden behind stucco walls, sits a sprawling Tuscan-style clubhouse on a hill overlooking a string of lakes, a golf course and green fields. This 1,900-acre property, called Bella Collina, was designed to hold 800 homes. Today, only 48 houses dot the landscape, and just three are occupied. The clubhouse, though open, is eerily quiet, and a promised swimming pool and equestrian center have yet to be built.”

“As the real estate boom expanded in recent years, developers and home buyers believed that residential golf resorts were a sure-fire bet. Many buyers looked to buy properties that they could flip for a quick profit. ‘The aggressive building of new resort courses continued from the mid-1990s into the 2000s, contributing to an increasing glut of inventory that finally found no market,’ said Joe Beditz, CEO of a trade group that tracks data on the golf industry.”

“Bella Collina, the brainchild of Robert Edward Ginn III, looks like a ghost town. So does Tesoro, another resort opened by Ginn near Port St. Lucie, where just 150 houses sit on 900 lots. And the Conservatory in Palm Coast, also from Ginn, is even more barren: 335 out of 340 lots are empty.”

“But when the real estate market began to tank in 2007, his empire came undone. ‘As property values plummeted, many investors had property worth less than their loans, and they were unprepared to pay their club and association fees,’ says Toby Tobin, a Florida real estate agent.”

“For Ginn, a man who could sell 400 lots in a single day during the height of the real estate boom, it has been a huge comedown. But when a new resort was in the works, Ginn knew how to generate a buying frenzy by holding lavish parties where potential buyers greatly outnumbered available lots, say agents and investors who attended the events. ‘You would come to one of Ginn’s sales weekends and you would be drinking and thinking, ‘I hope I get chosen as one of the select few who gets to buy a lot,’ recalled Hilton Wiener, a lawyer who bought an investment property at Tesoro. ‘The setting is very lush: hand-rolled cigars, fancy parties, vans with the Ginn name plastered on them.’”

“The Florida suit…alleges that Ginn worked to artificially inflate the prices of parcels in his development. In one case, according to the lawsuit, a buyer bought two properties for a total of $1.007 million, and Ginn’s title company recorded the respective sale prices as $1.007 million and $1. The company then used the larger price as a ‘comparable’ figure in an appraisal for Roy Bridges, a British financial adviser who bought a property for $1.195 million, according to appraisal records. Bridges’ property is now in foreclosure.”

“Ginn contends that ‘the county recorded it incorrectly.’”

“According to a transcript of a video obtained by a law firm representing property owners in the suit, a Ginn salesman told a group of potential buyers at Bella Collina that ‘Lot 5 sold for $2.1 million this morning.’ But property records showed that the parcel sold for just $416,900, according to the lawsuit. Ginn said he was ’shocked because the salesman deviated from company practices.’”

“Ginn says he is ‘ready to sell properties in trophy locations’ when the market turns around. ‘If you can’t sell,’ he said, ‘you die.’”

The News Press. “Rich and Linda Ricciani are using a novel marketing approach to sell their riverside estate in Fort Myers. A coupon. A coupon worth $1 million. Starting today, the coupon will appear in Florida newspapers, including The News-Press, the Wall Street Journal and newspapers in such northern cities as Boston and Minneapolis. If no buyer is found, the campaign will end July 31.”

“‘My broker and I were throwing around strategies and coming up with ideas, and one idea led to another and led to another,’ said owner Rich Ricciani. ‘Everybody puts an ad in the paper or on TV. We just wanted to think outside the box and try something different.’”

“The three-story house along the Caloosahatchee, with its 8,500 square feet of living area, was to be the family’s estate. Planning started 10 years ago and construction, which was completed in 2008, took more than three years because of the home’s many custom features. Ricciani, a real estate investor and developer, said while work was under way, he and his wife decided the home was no longer appropriate for them.”

“‘Our lifestyle has changed, our family has changed,’ he said. ‘It’s too big a house for two people and I’m 10 years older. It was a great idea then.’”

“Michaele Stahl, a luxury home specialist for Prudential Florida WCI Realty in Fort Myers, endorsed the Riccianis’ approach. ‘In this market, I think anything that anybody tries is not a bad thing,’ she said. ‘A $1 million coupon is kind of unusual in real estate. I’m not really into gimmicks, but I can’t blame anybody for trying.’”

“Stahl also stressed the importance of aligning with current market standards. ‘This will get attention, but I’m not sure it will help it to sell,’ Stahl said of the coupon. ‘In this market, it really all comes down to price.’”

From Florida Today. “Existing home sales in Brevard County were up 17 percent in April from a year ago, the third consecutive month of increased sales. The median sales price for single-family homes in April was $113,600, a 29 percent drop compared with the year-ago price of $160,000. The median price was $123,700 in March. The last time the median price was lower was in April 2002, when it was $109,300.”

“The dropping prices helped tempt John Dobay and his fiancé, Dawn McDonald, to check out a condo in Cocoa Beach Wednesday. The couple from Niles, Ohio, are regular visitors to the area and were in town for one of Dobay’s sons’ high school graduation. ‘That’s why we are looking now. It is the time to buy,’ said Dobay.”

“It is those ‘distress sales’ that have driven prices down and brought buyers back to the market, said Sean Snaith, an economist at the University of Central Florida. ‘I think they are starting to recognize that there are some values out there that are going to seem like real bargains five or 10 years down the road,’ Snaith said.”

“He points out that builders have told him many homes are now selling for less than it cost to build them. ‘Houses right now are selling below their replacement cost, which tells me we overshot the bottom,’ he said.”

The Bradenton Herald. “Melissa Murray was laid off in August. In April, her husband Russell Murray was laid off. To avoid foreclosure or falling behind on the bills, the Murrays are doing what many homeowners are doing in these tough economic times — renting out a room in their home.”

“‘It’s inconvenient. It upsets me that I have to do this,’ said Melissa Murray. ‘But if we do not find a suitable renter within the next month, we won’t be able to keep our heads above water.’”

“Economist Sean Snaith said it is common during a recession for people to search for alternative methods to generate income. Room rentals, he says, seem to be a popular option when faced with foreclosure possibilities and a poor real estate market. ‘It’s more prevalant given the nature of the recession and the role housing has played,’ Snaith said. ‘In this particular downturn, more people have been forced into this option as a way to make mortgage payments. It’s difficult to sell a house and for many homeowners it’s a better option than foreclosure.’”

“Murray and her husband receive about $1,000 in unemployment compensation a month, nearly the same amount as their mortgage payment. ‘With our mortgage, utilities, vehicle insurance, phone and just your basic necessities, it’s just barely enough,’ Murray said.”

“Manatee County had 2,450 foreclosure filings this year as of May 18. Pat Palmeri-Bates, a Realtor at Keller Williams of Greater Manatee and Palmetto, said renting is just about all some homeowners can do to avoid foreclosure. ‘A lot of people don’t want to take a hit of doing a short sale so they figure they’ll try to rent it, and at least some money’s coming in. It’s better than no money.’”

“During the past year, Palmeri-Bates estimates she’s rented 29 single-family homes and has about 25 rentals on her listings. ‘It seems as soon as I get something rented I get two more,’ Palmeri-Bates said. ‘Now we’re seeing people looking to rent out rooms in their homes.’”

The Associated Press. “Mike Manikchand points toward his neighbors in Lehigh Acres — a half-dozen empty, foreclosed-upon homes, sitting on weed-strewn yards — and he wonders: What will happen if a hurricane slams into southwest Florida this year? His simple answer: ‘A lot of these places will get destroyed.”’

“A 22-year-old pharmacy student, he took advantage of a dismal housing market and bought a foreclosed duplex for $36,000. In coming months, he and millions of others along the Atlantic and Gulf coasts will dutifully track tropical weather forecasts and stockpile batteries, flashlights and tins of tuna, hoping that hurricanes blow harmlessly out to sea.”

“But who will secure all the foreclosed homes if a storm does approach? No one really knows. If the bank hasn’t yet taken the title of a home, the property is in a kind of limbo, and local officials or homeowners associations may have no legal right to trespass and secure it. And many hard-hit counties don’t have the money or manpower to do it.”

“‘Simple logistics tells me (the banks) don’t have the staff to follow up,’ said Kenneth Wilkinson, property appraiser for Lee County, which in March had the third-highest foreclosure rate in the United States, after California’s Merced County and Nevada’s Clark County.”

“One real estate agent in the Fort Myers area said the process of putting the maintenance work out to bid and then getting approval from the bank that owns the property might not be workable as a storm bears down. ‘During a hurricane, we need to get out of town, not wait for approval for funding to secure a building,’ said Suzanne Sherer, president of the Realtors Association of Greater Fort Myers and the Beaches. ‘I won’t have time to get a bid from a handyman.”’

“Residents throughout the hurricane zone are worried, especially those who live in foreclosure-dotted neighborhoods. Armando Gonzalez retired from Miami to Lehigh Acres five years ago. He and his wife moved to a small home a few blocks from the city center, in a quiet yet thriving neighborhood. But in the last two years, his neighbors left, either because of foreclosure or job loss. Now he’s the only one on his block; the home next to him has a broken window and the one across the street is only half-built.”

“When asked what would happen to all the nearby, dilapidated homes if a hurricane hit, Gonzalez shrugged and grinned. ‘I can’t do anything,’ he said. ‘Maybe I’ll pray. God will save me.”’

The Herald Tribune. “The federal government is learning from the mistakes of the housing bubble. But what lessons will local governments salvage from a boom-and-bust cycle that overestimated home demand while underestimating the problems that would ensue when the mania collapsed?”

“With the pain and perfection of hindsight, the world now knows just how destructive ‘irrational exuberance’ can be. A housing bubble, coupled with deeply flawed credit practices and risk mismanagement, triggered a financial disaster of epic proportions.”

“During the boom, some long-needed traffic improvements were planned and scheduled to tie in with proposed mega-projects, which would help pay for the work. But then the development plans collapsed with the market. In several cases the projects and the traffic improvements remain unbuilt.”

“The cause of sustainable growth might also benefit from better use of data that could serve as an early-warning system on speculative excess. These indicators could include such numbers as the proportion of homes purchased as primary residences; median price compared to median income; and divergences from historical norms in price appreciation.”

“A lack of scrutiny helped enable the financial crisis. More watchdogs are needed — not just on Wall Street but here at home, to catch the mortgage fraud, inflated appraisals and other improper activity that contributed to the destructive bubble.”




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137 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-31 09:02:09

‘I think they are starting to recognize that there are some values out there that are going to seem like real bargains five or 10 years down the road,’ Snaith said. He points out that builders have told him many homes are now selling for less than it cost to build them. ‘Houses right now are selling below their replacement cost, which tells me we overshot the bottom,’ he said.’

IMO, replacement cost is meaningless in the aftermath of a mania that put houses where no one wants to be. Here’s a question for the Florida media; why aren’t you people tarring and feathering these ‘economists’ who helped create this situation?

‘The couple from Niles, Ohio, are regular visitors to the area and were in town for one of Dobay’s sons’ high school graduation. ‘That’s why we are looking now. It is the time to buy,’ said Dobay.’

Here we go. Isn’t it cheaper to rent a resort room the few times they might visit, than to maintain the property year round? I’m guessing these folks are speculating. Good luck with that.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 09:50:46

“‘That’s why we are looking now. It’s the time to buy.’”

Keep that fresh knifecatcher money rolling in, folks. The banks sure can use it.

Comment by mikey
2009-05-31 15:07:22

‘If I would have known what was going to happen, I would have gotten a fixed rate,’ said Ronald Rostran, who bought a new three-bedroom, two-bath house in Homestead in the summer of 2007 for $250,000. ‘We thought we could stay in the house for two or three years and then sell it. I had no idea.”

BLOOD ON THE HUMMER

“Is everybody happy?” cried the Banker looking up,
Our Hero answered “Yes” and then they stood him up,
He leaped into the house, his common sense unhooked,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
(CHORUS)
He counted long, he counted wrong, he waited for the bucks,
He felt the need, he felt the greed and waited for his gain,
He milked his HELOC, he bought himself new trucks,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
(CHORUS)
The holding costs wrapped around his neck, mad creditors at his door,
The credit lines were snarled and played, around his silly plan,
The happy home became his shroud, it hurled him to the floor,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
(CHORUS)
The days he lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind,
He thought about the Job back home, the one he left behind,
He thought about Suzanne and wondered what she would find,
(CHORUS)
The Repo-man was on the spot, the Cops were running wild,
The bubbleheads jumped and screamed for Joy, his neighbors merely smiled,
For it had been a week or more since another “Flipper” died,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
(CHORUS)
He hit the ground, the sound was “SPLAT”, Flipper blood went spurting high,
David Lereah was heard to say, ” A Helluva way to die”,
He lay there rolling ’round next to assets in his gore,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
(CHORUS)
There was blood upon the Hummer, there were brains upon the door,
Intestines were a’dangling from his investment working boots,
They picked him up still clinging to his prize and STILL HE WANTED MORE,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
(CHORUS)
GORY, GORY, WHAT A HELLUVA WAY TO DIE,
GORY, GORY, WHAT A HELLUVA WAY TO DIE,
HE AIN’T GONNA FLIP NO MORE!
GORY, GORY, WHAT A HELLUEVA WAY TO DIE!

Sung to “Blood on the Risers” with at least 8 beers :)

http://tinyurl.com/6jfurc

 
 
Comment by banana republic
2009-05-31 09:56:28

Ben the media is complete crap in this country. You know that! In any other country you’d get 10 times the coverage of your blog. Our media is corporate controlled, and their religion is money. Doom and Gloom won’t get them any more advertisers. They knew this thing was going to implode, but they looked the other way for profit.

They called it Yellow Journalism for a reason. They are liars. They cannot be trusted. We see proof of that EVERY DAY here. There are exceptions (Krugman) but there aren’t THAT MANY exceptions.

Let me predict something that will provide more proof that our news media is complete rubbish. Just about everyone knows (or should know) that the heads of most major media companies are partial to Israel. Hey, I didn’t make it up so don’t shoot the messenger. Now let’s take this little spat between Obama and the Israeli nutjob Netanyahu. I’m sure they are currently getting their new marching orders. Up until now they have sort of loved Obama (he is likable!) but that is going to change, and change fast. I predict that our news media is going to go super negative on Obama any day now, and when they do they aren’t going to let up. It is a pressure tactic to get him to back off on Israel. What a worthless group of Yellow Journalists we have. Truly the bottom of the barrel.

These people aren’t in the truth business. Argue all you want, but when it happens don’t blame me. Our news media is loaded with liars. They use their power to manipulate and further their own ends. The truth has nothing to do with it.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-31 10:08:36

Well, I can’t complain about media coverage. This blog got plenty of that. It is true that most of it was sort of, ‘look at these cute bloggers who think they know more than the experts.’ But as this thing has gotten into a more serious stage, somebody doesn’t care for an open questioning about what caused this and what needs to happen next. I don’t blame reporters; I’ve spoken with many and they are just people like you and me. And they don’t chose what gets covered.

BTW, did I ever mention I got interviewed by a writer doing a piece for the NAR? I don’t think she even read the blog before and was doing a story on RE blogging. I kept thinking, ‘does her editor know she’s interviewing me?’ Needless to say, I wasn’t in the finished article. This was the summer of 2006 I think.

Comment by banana republic
2009-05-31 12:15:54

I don’t blame the reporters either, but the reporters don’t really get to decide what is covered and what isn’t. The reporters are the grunts. If you go further up the chain you will find people that have very little interest in the truth. I cannot tell you how many times I have read about people being asked to come on talk shows, or be interviewed. Once it is obvious the answers/opinions they have are not desired, they were politely informed that they would not be needed after all.

Think about that for a minute. They aren’t looking for news, they are creating it. Manufacturing it around their agenda. And this whole bubble is a perfect example of that. So was the sales job leading up to the Iraq war.

Our news media is rotten.

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Comment by Anon In DC
2009-05-31 10:25:29

Hi. Sorry to drift into politics but I agree the media is very pro Israel. Now it’s good to be pro democracy, but in the region our pro democracy is percieved right or wrong as pro Jewish. Disclaimer half my ancestry is Jewish with Holocaust losses. I think the strident pro Israel Jews are like the far right Christians in this country. I know many non Israeli Jews who migrate to that war zone (Israel) with their children. The reason is because the scriptures says it’s holy land. If one wants to go fine but to drag your kids is nuts. If I was so observant that Judism or any religion was that important to me I would stay right here in good old USA where you have probably the best chance of exercising religous freedom. I don’t think a freaking patch of sand is worth your kids’ lives

Comment by banana republic
2009-05-31 12:23:30

Right it is very pro Israel. And that was really my point. Now that Obama is at odds with Netanyahu over settlements, I fully expect the pro Israel news media in this country to apply the screws to Obama. Can they come up with a love child? Maybe claim he killed somebody and made it look like a suicide? It is probably the one issue that transcends partisan politics. Even Republicans have found out the hard way not to mess with the pro Israel crowd. Take Nixon for example. He was caught on tape blasting Jews, claiming that the country was going down if they weren’t stopped. You don’t think that led to the firestorm against him? What about Carter with his middle east peace process? I do remember a very hostile media. Same with Clinton.

So all I am saying is Obama is in for a very rough ride unless he changes gears on Israel. And it will not take very long to prove out this point. Of course, it will look totally innocent, and justified, but when you know the news media is loaded with liars….

Just watch.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 13:56:04

“So all I am saying is Obama is in for a very rough ride unless he changes gears on Israel.”

Not to worry. Rahm da Bomb is one of his handlers. I’ve no doubt that there is some sort of “wink-wink, nod-nod we have to sound sympathetic to Palestine, but we’re really with you” waltz going on. Shall we dance?

 
Comment by jane
2009-05-31 17:31:28

This is an …umm… interesting discussion. IMHO, it actually has multiple layers. Israel is an ally in a critical geography. Lest any of us be naive, an abrupt stop to Middle East oil supply will affect our lives more than the Wall Street/Federal Reserve/Treasuriy expropriations, and faster. It will be like falling off a cliff. So the State Department has an interest in supporting Israel as a viable state. Has nothing to do with Judaism. Has everything to do with an assured staging area.

The MSM, syphalitic (as in brain rotted) products of the public school educational system, are in shrill agreement with any liberal sloganeering. Lacking the ability to reason, they substitute hysteria, and don’t know the difference. In this story, Israel is the poor underdog who must be given a leg up. Ignorant journalists have aligned themselves with the State Department. If they could read anything deeper than “run, Spot, run”, they would take the other side of the argument.

The third layer. Skeptical people who think in terms of “America first”, and who believe bringing all military deterrents home are the way to effect this belief system. They haven’t thought through the cascading effects of an abrupt oil supply failure.

The fourth layer. There may actually be some pro-Jewish blocs of board members and executives. They are deliberately aligned with the State Department, and chuckle at the ignorance of the trash who report to them, who are promoting their positions without knowing they are doing so, and without knowing why they are doing so.

Personally, I’m with the State Department, I mean opinion-wise. We have seen the effect of a dislocated credit supply, whose effects have been attenuated by virtue of taking place over a year or more. It’s affected all of us. Some of us have borne primary effects (loss of income and station). Most of us have been inconvenienced with second and third order effects. It has still been rough.

An abrupt dislocation in oil supply, IMHO, would have a first order effect on all of us immediately. Overnight. We are not prepared for this, and to a great degree CANNOT prepare for this. It would take all of our waking hours. It would be devastating.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 13:59:06

“Disclaimer half my ancestry is Jewish with Holocaust losses.”

Who cares? My great-gran was scourged across her bare back by thug Limey soldiers for getting caught teaching kids at one of the hedge schools in Ireland. She wore the stripe marks to her grave. We’ve all got some sort of injustice in our ancestry.

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Comment by SDGreg
2009-05-31 13:23:30

“Our media is corporate controlled, and their religion is money. Doom and Gloom won’t get them any more advertisers.”

Many are going away as are their advertisers as the whole house of cards they supported implodes. Belated justice, I suppose.

 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-05-31 09:07:51

a sprawling Tuscan-style clubhouse on a hill

Danger, Will Robinson!

Comment by JDinCT
2009-05-31 13:38:20

funniest of the week byDennisn?

a sprawling Tuscan-style clubhouse on a hill

Danger, Will Robinson!

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-05-31 09:16:26

When asked what would happen to all the nearby, dilapidated homes if a hurricane hit, Gonzalez shrugged and grinned

We’ve had tons of abandoned houses, either foreclosed upon or halted mid-construction, in FL for over a year now. That means we’ve been through one hurricane season already. What happened to all those houses? Or was last year a mild hurricane season?

Comment by SouthFL
2009-05-31 09:28:32

Last year was very mild. We haven’t had a really bad season in a few years.

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-05-31 13:23:38

The 2004 hurricane season was a nasty one:
Charley.
Frances.
Jean.
Ivan.

I was in Gainesville that year and I remember it was a very mentally draining period.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-05-31 14:15:44

Bubba:

I was in New Port Richey. Charley (CAT 4) had a bullseye on NPR. 60 miles out it did a right turn and nailed Punta. I drove down and did volunteer work three weekends in a row. Yes, those puppies were mentally draining.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-31 09:38:40

This brings up something I’ve mentioned a few times. I work with foreclosed houses almost every day, and they are almost always vacant and not being maintained on some level. This article focuses on the hurricane issue, but in fact is there are all sorts of things that can go wrong when no one is taking care of a house. These moratoriums and other foot-dragging by lenders are decreasing their value, not just of these houses but the ones around them.

Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-31 09:58:52

Ben we see water damage and mold growing on a lot of foreclosed homes. Our franchises are working with banks and yes even countrywide to remove the mold and restore normal fungal ecology to the property. In many cases shoddy workmanship along with a lack of knowledge, technology as well as training new buyers are buying sick homes without even knowing about. There are all kinds of scams happening with foreclosed properties.

Comment by Natalie
2009-05-31 10:20:09

In many parts of the Country severe damage occurs if a home is left vacant. This is particularly true in FL. Hot, wet and plagued with frequent storms. Not to mention those caught up with the drug epidemic looking for a new house to crash in. Stinking, rotting and crime infested - with very few decent paying jobs (and that number is shrinking daily). How can I invest?

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-31 10:33:05

I’ve seen two cases of mold personally. One was some fancy refrigerator leaked. If someone had been there it could have been mopped up and stopped in a few minutes. Instead, it spread and kept leaking for weeks. I guess the realtor couldn’t bother to stop by and check on the place. They are probably looking at 40 grand and up to remediate it.

The other was where the FB took a water line off a sink and kicked a line off the water heater, then left the water running for days. It got about 2 feet deep in the lower level. Neither of these places have ever been worked on, to my knowledge.

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Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-31 10:54:31

The first place you mentioned with about 40K in mold remediation cost. The profit for the remediation company will be about 38K.

The second place you mentioned will have stachybotrys as well as chaetomium. This mold will be sticky and will grow on the walls. A contractor will bid this job a bit higher than the first job. In orange county NY builders are getting their real estate licenses and buying mold infested properties for 30 cents on the dollar.

 
Comment by Temporal
2009-05-31 11:32:50

I saw something disturbing along these lines recently. I was heading home and just for giggles stopped to scout out a forclosed townhouse (one of 4, sort of a rowhouse) that happened to be on my commute route. Anyway, big signs all over about an amazing auction that was supposed to have taken place a few weeks prior (still not sold) and a new realty company sign up in the window.

But while I was looking at all of this, I could hear the distinct sound of spraying water. I took a quick walk around the back and sure enough, a pipe had broken that went into their little rear “shed” and was busily spraying all over the rear of the building. The paneling was soggy and there was algae growing, along with some plant life on the ground around this little tiny makeshift river, you could see a small pool of water sitting just inside the sliding door, there’s obviously significant damage that didn’t “just happen” this must have been going on for weeks - if not months.

Now why in the world would the other townhouse owners in this 4-home rowhouse not take care of this? Do they simply not care that their connected neighbor’s home is swiftly becoming a soggy algae-green wonder? I left a message with the realty company currently in charge, there’s still water spraying on the house a week later. Maybe on my way home I’ll try and wrap the pipe with something to slow the damage…..

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-05-31 12:26:40

Maybe you discovered an insurance scam. Sort of like arson with water. Let the place get damaged beyond repair and collect on the insurance policy.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:30:56

“The other was where the FB took a water line off a sink and kicked a line off the water heater, then left the water running for days. It got about 2 feet deep in the lower level. Neither of these places have ever been worked on, to my knowledge.”

Can the owner (presumably the lender) recover the cost of water damage from the FB?

 
Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-31 17:28:33

Maybe you discovered an insurance scam. Sort of like arson with water. Let the place get damaged beyond repair and collect on the insurance policy.

Insurance companies limit is $10,000 for most mold jobs.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-31 11:10:59

Don`t forge any reports on mold.

Facing prison, man kills self

By DAPHNE DURET

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, May 31, 2009

In the hours before he committed suicide, Patrick Bock spent most of his time writing.

There were letters to victims who testified that he defrauded them into paying for mold removal work based on forged test results, according to prosecutors, blaming them for his death and promising they’d see him in hell.

There was the text message to his attorney Wednesday morning, almost an hour after a judge was supposed to sentence him on racketeering and workers compensation insurance fraud charges. The message told Harrison Slaughter that he could be found in the parking lot of the Indian River County courthouse in Vero Beach, dead.

And the final letter, scrawled on a piece of paper found next to his body minutes later, contradicted the text message that told a prosecutor that he controlled his own destiny.

“Lev Evans murdered me,” it said.

The letter both shocked and saddened Evans, the assistant state attorney who had vigorously prosecuted Bock during a two-week trial but otherwise said he had no personal issue with the 45-year-old businessman.

But even now, in the days after he shot himself, the letters have added more questions than answers as to who Bock really was, a mystery Evans doesn’t think he’ll ever solve.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 13:28:18

Oh, goody! I like happy endings.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 13:33:39

There were letters to victims who testified that he defrauded them into paying for mold removal work based on forged test results, according to prosecutors, blaming them for his death and promising they’d see him in h*ell.

But alas! Poor, poor Bock will likely have to find a new line of employment there in H*e*ll. It’s just too dang hot for any of the other residents to believe they’ve got mold problems, forged test results or not.
Well, maybe he can sell sno-cone futures.

 
 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-05-31 11:45:36

I grew up in Baltimore, and for the entire 35+ years that my folks lived in our house they had a dehumidifier that would run continuously in our basement from May-September. If we didn’t, everything down there would immediately start to mildew. As a small kid I would marvel at the buckets of water that we would pull out of thin air each day with that little machine.

Baltimore is hot and muggy enough in the summertime, but it can’t hold a candle to the coastal south and Gulf states with their humidity. I can only imagine how bad some of this damage is that you all regularly mention.

That is one distinct advantage to life in the desert southwest. Instead of mold we have dry rot issue,s but I have to say that they’re much more readily managed, and not subject to quick-onset degradation as is the case for mold and mildew.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:19:16

“These moratoriums and other foot-dragging by lenders are decreasing their value, not just of these houses but the ones around them.”

Given that there are reportedly a record 19m+ vacant homes in America at the moment with the number likely to grow for the foreseeable future, the financial cost of physical depreciation due to maintenance neglect while lenders drag their feet must be truly immense.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:20:57

I remember my Russian teacher, a late-1970s immigrant to the US, commenting on how there was plenty of good housing here, but it was not very well maintained. Something tells me that many of the vacant homes that dot the US landscape will soon fit that description, if not already…

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-31 14:32:54

” leaving behind a sprawl of hollow houses, cul-de-sac moonscapes and mosquito-infested pools — the stucco ghettos of the 21st century?”

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-31 21:57:04

desert rot.

More homes even in the highrent district of Las Palmas in Palm Springs are up for sale, and even more are abandoned. These are 1mill+ but coming down.
Just to give you an idea of where the prop values in this area were in 1994, I had just bought a foreclosure $70k-3/2+pool-VIEWS!!!,to rehab and rent out or sell, but didn’t realize how bad our economy was, 2 weeks after I closed, I saw a house, 2 story, 1920’s spanish, pie shaped 3/4 acre in foreclosure- $240k, which is now fully redone, protected by a Huge Hedge wall, and 1.6 mill+ last time I pulled up info.

So, I think we have lots to go, but the snowball, even in the desert is building up steam.

 
 
 
 
Comment by JackRussell
2009-05-31 15:12:06

Here’s a thought though. In a hurricane, a lot of the damage isn’t really from the wind per-se. It is from flying debris of one sort or another.

So what happens if you have a bunch of houses down the street that aren’t secured properly. Could those be huge sources of flying debris that would damage other houses?

Comment by the_economist
2009-05-31 15:32:24

That is mostly media hype. Most damage is done either storm surge or falling trees. I live in Orlando and after hurricane Charlie, we had a lot of debris piles. Right before Francis hit the media said if you lived within a mile of a debris pile you should evacuate. I had one in my back yard and it didnt lose a branch. The media tries to scare everyone so they will continue to watch.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-05-31 16:45:03

“That is mostly media hype. Most damage is done either storm surge or falling trees”

True, but most of the damage done from Frances and Jean in the West Pal Beach area was from bad roofs. Houses that needed a new roof before the storms had a lot of damage, houses or structures with new or good roofs did fine. But those were Cat 3 storms, if Andrew comes to town all bets are off. I was down in Homestead after Andrew and by the Air Force base it looked like a nuclear bomb went off. If a Cat 5 comes along, lock the door and get out of town because structures turn into debris fields.

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Comment by SouthFL
2009-05-31 09:38:45

Many of the people I know in homes in South FL they bought for 500K+ in the boom are struggling to hang on with option arms, or with payments that are over their heads b/c their industry has declined (many in construction or lending related occupations).

So I’m amazed that I keep hearing “bottom” in the news (or stories eluding to bottom) regarding South FL real estate - b/c many of these people (from knowing them and knowing what they plan to do) are just going to go into foreclosure or try and short sale when the loans reset. Which obviously means we have quite a ways to go (potentially years) before prices will reach bottom.

Why is it that a simple housewife (me) can figure this out about our region, but economists and newspapers can’t?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-31 09:46:21

‘Why is it that a simple housewife (me) can figure this out’

IMO, it’s because what we are dealing with is an emperor with no clothes situation. It’s always been there for anyone to see. But it is the nature of mania’s that the majority of people believe the fairy tale. And it is telling that even at this late date, people cling to the memory of the bubble, sometimes believing it will return.

I suppose that’s why guys like Snaith keep getting asked what’s going to happen next. Mania’s require ‘experts’ to reinforce the concept for the masses. Look at every devastated market in the US, and they had people who filled this role.

Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 14:40:25

“I suppose that’s why guys like Snaith keep getting asked what’s going to happen next.”

What I can’t believe is that Florida keeps paying Snaith’s salary. He’s probably laughing his patootie off every day about how he’s gotten away with the most outrageous prognostications. Being from Cali, he’s probably contemptuous of Florida for even keeping him around, and I don’t blame him.

He does check out the blog from time to time. I think the handle was “saneposter”. He about blew a gasket when I mentioned maybe calling my state rep about his waste of a salary.

Comment by snake charmer
2009-05-31 17:13:20

Speaking of economists taking public funds, I remember absolutely hitting the roof earlier this year when I discovered that Fishkind’s firm listed at least one Florida state agency among its clients. Those are my tax dollars you #%*%&$@*!

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Comment by JackRussell
2009-05-31 15:19:11

Not far from where I am, there are neighborhoods in Arlington VA where fairly average looking homes go for 1-2M$. So far prices haven’t budged much - the homes are older so there probably aren’t all that many of the ARMs in there, and the current owners probably paid far less than this. I am guessing that they still hope for buyers who can afford such a pricetag.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-05-31 21:59:04

Simple housewives know more than anyone.
Especially the know-it-alls.

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2009-05-31 09:43:42

“With the decline in home values, most South Floridians with option ARMs are, at best, stuck with them for now, unable to refinance in a conventional manner because their loan is upside-down. ‘If I would have known what was going to happen, I would have gotten a fixed rate,’ said Ronald Rostran, who bought a new three-bedroom, two-bath house in Homestead in the summer of 2007 for $250,000. ‘We thought we could stay in the house for two or three years and then sell it. I had no idea.”’

News flash. A lot of buyers did not qualify for fixed rate financing when prices were going up 20% a year, ergo 100% financing and Option ARMS and liar loans.

This is the next wave to hit….once folks try to re-finance and are told they don’t qualify for fixed rate financing (insufficient equity or underwater or income/debt ratios don’t work), the jingle mail will be fast & furious.

I think all this hoopla about record low rates may actually speed up the bust. No more rose colored glasses once you try to re-fi and realize you’re stuck with your toxic mortgage.

Comment by SouthFL
2009-05-31 09:51:25

I think everybody knows they can’t refinance. At least everyone I know. They are just hanging on, hoping the economy will rebound and they can stay in their house.

Many people I know w/fixed rate loans are getting loan mods for a 4 year interest only. The option arm crowd is getting nothing - those guys are the ones just sitting on the fence until the loans reset.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 10:12:57

“I think everyone knows they can’t refinance. At least everyone I know. They are just hanging on, hoping the economy will rebound and they can stay in their house.”

Meanwhile they are keeping up with their house payments, right?

 
 
 
Comment by Natalie
2009-05-31 10:10:10

You here all these horror stories about ARMs resetting. The fact of the matter is that we still have the lowest mortgage rates in my lifetime. This is the best, the absolutely best, it could be for them. Think what will happen when average fixed rates go back up to 8% or more. I know they claim they wanted to refinance or find some sucker to dump it on, but clearly they can’t even keep up with the rate adjustments. If millions of ppl bought houses they really couldn’t afford, who in the hell did they think they would sell them to - at a profit no less? It blows my mind and makes me mad as hell. They are getting free government assistance directly or indirectly, and caused millions of innocent ppl to lose their jobs for their mistakes, and I am supposed to give a damn about their struggles in trying to screw ppl over?

Comment by SUGuy
2009-05-31 11:08:36

Natlie we love your anger.

 
Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 11:48:57

“… and caused millions of innocent ppl to lose their jobs for their mistakes …”

Millions of people were employed as a result of these people’s mistakes. Now that the mistakes are being recognized (and corrected) those jobs are going away.

Comment by Natalie
2009-05-31 12:32:31

The jobs that are being lost are not just in the real estate industry as ppl no longer can afford luxuries. Real estate cannot be decoupled from the economy as a whole. Leverage on the way up increased spending power dramatically, and is crippling it on the way down. Renters lost jobs not tied to real estate as well. America was robbed by a chosen few. Those that over paid not only destroyed their lives, but destroyed the lives of many others as they were all to eager to soil their hands in an effort to make it to the top by any means. They created demand that should not have existed, not to mention getting in bed with banks they now claim to despise by reaching an unholy agreement as to who gives a ____ if I can afford debt service. If such demand did not exist due to their greed and stupidity, moving resources away from innovation and productivity to scams and get quick rich schemes, America would not be in bad as shape. I think we could have done fine without the bubble, and many are now experiencing pain they would not otherwise felt. The decision to over pay was not only ignorant, it was amoral at best.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 14:54:01

Natalie, you sort of made my point: “Real estate cannot be decoupled from the economy as a whole.”

Much of the consumer-based economy was predicated on the mistaken illusion that real estate prices aways went up, and it was prudent to get into RE at any cost and borrow and spend as much as one can. Millions of jobs were supported by this mentality.

Once the illusion of ever rising RE prices was revealed for the mistake that it was then everything went into reverse. The Great Windup became the Great Unwind. The jobs supported by the Windup are being lost due to the Unwind.

As I said: “Millions of people were being employed as a result of these people’s mistakes. Now that these mistakes are being recognized (and corrected) those jobs are going away.”

You and I are both saying the same thing but are framing the words differently.

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Comment by Natalie
2009-05-31 15:12:46

I wasn’t disagreeing with you my Cash is King friend.

 
 
 
Comment by NotQuiteInChapelHill
2009-05-31 14:04:01

But just think if the money that went in to installing granite counter tops had moved into a more productive industry instead? We misallocated money and time in this bubble.

Comment by are they crazy
2009-05-31 15:38:58

Yes - Imagine if all the homes in CA & southwest that were built had a few solar panels that handled most electric for the home with formica or tile counters and some regular appliances. Maybe 2000 sf instead of 5000. add a few transit hubs. Would have been a way better use of money.

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Comment by GotRocks
2009-05-31 13:44:04

I wish it was just what you mentioned.

The other shoe is that we, as a country, are getting $10T tacked on to our national debt, soon making it unmanageable…and so the inevitable currency collapse.

This is going to be ugly, regardless of how the media reports on Israel.

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2009-05-31 10:14:39

“I think everybody knows they can’t refinance. At least everyone I know. They are just hanging on, hoping the economy will rebound and they can stay in their house.”

Hope is not a financial strategy. And on some of the J6P money shows (Suzie O and On The Money), the advice more and more is to let the house go when you hit the brick wall of unable to sell / unable to re-finance / big payments on a rapidly depreciating asset and a loan that will reset.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 10:18:23

“Hope is not a financial strategy.”

It isn’t for the FBs but it sure is for the financial institutions. Keeping hope alive among the FBs helps keep money flowing into the banks.

Comment by Lisa
2009-05-31 10:30:34

“It isn’t for the FBs but it sure is for the financial institutions. Keeping hope alive among the FBs helps keep money flowing into the banks.”

You are absolutely right, Combotechie. Hence all the green shoots happy talk.

But the hole gets deeper for the FB and the house is worth less for the bank the longer both parties hold out on hope.

And I have to believe a lot of these folks will be knocked out of the housing market for years to come. The pool of willing, qualified buyers just continues to shrink over the next few years.

Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 10:43:09

“But the hole gets deeper for the FB and the house is worth less for the bank the longer both parties hold out on hope.”

But the house is more likely to retain its value if it is occupied by a hopeful FB than it would be if it was abandoned and left to the elements.

Plus the FB’s payments to the bank swill help replenish the bank’s depleted balance sheet. Better for the FB to do the replenishing rather than the taxpayer.

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Comment by combotechie
2009-05-31 10:44:34

swill = will
(but I kinda like swill)

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-05-31 12:33:14

Keep hops alive.

 
Comment by NotQuiteInChapelHill
2009-05-31 14:10:52

lol

 
 
Comment by Nudge
2009-05-31 15:22:50

What’s that saying? Our currency has evolved from gold to paper to plastic to hope.

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Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 10:18:51

“To top it off, the builder in his development is now selling new houses like his for $180,000 — $70,000 less than he paid. ‘Yes, for me it has been a nightmare,’ he said.”

Cue Axel Rose…

“Welcome to the JUNGLE Rostran, you’re gonna DDDIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!”

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 10:25:10

“Mike Manikchand points toward his neighbors in Lehigh Acres — a half-dozen empty, foreclosed-upon homes, sitting on weed-strewn yards — and he wonders: What will happen if a hurricane slams into southwest Florida this year? His simple answer: ‘A lot of these places will get destroyed.”

Cue Metallica…

“I cant remember anything — Cant tell if this is true or dream
– Deep down inside I feel to scream — This terrible silence stops me — Hold my breath as I wish for death — Oh please God, wake me — Now the world is gone Im just one!!!”

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 10:34:09

Ben, there is too much carnage to digest here — I love it!!

Cue Axl Rose to every FB in this thread…

““Welcome to the JUNGLE Florida FB, you’re gonna DDDIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!”

Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 10:36:39

Cha-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-knees, knees!

It’s gonna bring you down!

HOAH!

(duh na nuh skwang)

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Comment by Mugsy
2009-05-31 12:22:27

I always wondered how that was spelled……

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 13:38:27

Yup, it’s got that little guitar skwang at the end there.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-05-31 10:43:31

Yes, well this is the HBB, where making lemonade out of lemons is the stock and trade. Plus, who wouldn’t get a kick out of statements like these:

‘We thought we could stay in the house for two or three years and then sell it. I had no idea’

‘We used it as a vehicle for folks not planning to be in the home long-term’

‘I don’t think I’m going to get my money back’

‘You would come to one of Ginn’s sales weekends and you would be drinking and thinking, ‘I hope I get chosen as one of the select few who gets to buy a lot’

‘It’s too big a house for two people and I’m 10 years older. It was a great idea then’

‘It upsets me that I have to do this…But if we do not find a suitable renter within the next month, we won’t be able to keep our heads above water.’

‘A 22-year-old pharmacy student, he took advantage of a dismal housing market and bought a foreclosed duplex for $36,000….he wonders: What will happen if a hurricane slams into southwest Florida this year? His simple answer: ‘A lot of these places will get destroyed.’

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-05-31 11:37:20

suitable renter:

Someone willing to pay 50-100% over current market rental rates, to keep me somewhere close to cash flow neutral

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 13:39:42

“It’s too big a house for two people and I’m 10 years older.”

Who could have predicted that this man would be ten years older?

 
Comment by snake charmer
2009-05-31 14:56:01

What kind of a price is the guy looking for if someone shows up with the $1 million “coupon”? I’m trying to imagine the monthly electic bill for a house of that size. In the summer it might top $1,000.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Anon In DC
2009-05-31 10:26:50

‘You would come to one of Ginn’s sales weekends and you would be drinking and thinking, ‘I hope I get chosen as one of the select few who gets to buy a lot,’ recalled Hilton Wiener, a lawyer who bought an investment property at Tesoro. ‘The setting is very lush: hand-rolled cigars, fancy parties, vans with the Ginn name plastered on them.’”

Oh this is too good. This will keep me laughing all day. I hope, I hope, I hope I get choosen.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:22:50

“…drinking and thinking…”

Lincoln, Lincoln, I’ve been thinking
What on earth have you been drinking?

Smells like water, tastes like wine.
Oh, my God, it’s turpentine!

Comment by lavi d
2009-05-31 20:17:10

“…drinking and thinking…”

Sittin’
Drinkin’
Superficially thinkin’
What will I do when I’m through tonight

 
 
Comment by BottomFisher
2009-05-31 14:30:59

For Ginn, a man who could sell 400 lots in a single day during the height of the real estate boom, it has been a huge comedown.

Some other reporters questions that were not printed in the article:

Mr Ginn, can you still catch a speeding bullet too?
Mr Ginn, I noticed all of your developments had Italian themed names…what was the reason?

reply: ‘Whata yous a wise guy or sompin?’

They can’t seem to locate the reporter for more details.

 
 
Comment by bigdaddy63
2009-05-31 11:12:40

Ben, isn’t it funny how despite the best efforts of our governemnt, LOL, they have followed the exact same course of actions that caused the Great Depression. I’ve been covering the local markets for years. Florida has always been home to scams, con men,and get rich schemes.

This will not end well.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-05-31 11:40:05

“A lack of scrutiny helped enable the financial crisis. More watchdogs are needed … ”

Bla, bla, bla. Same old stuff. And the Soviet Union would have done just fine, if only they had had more watchdogs and scrutiny to make sure factory workers were toiling away for the good of the proletariat instead of drinking vodka.

When are people going to realize that the current system of running all transactions through corporate cartels DOES NOT WORK and CAN NEVER BE MADE TO WORK?

We don’t need to bog down more and more people by making them wade through tomes of incomprehensible legalese. We need to get back to simple principles of property and contract law. Person A lends Person B money. If Person B doesn’t repay, Person A has the right to take the collateral. Easy. Simple. And this way, the damage really would be “contained”.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:09:42

Nice post. My question: How could DC ever possibly muster the political will to let Mr Market do the work in such a low-cost and effective manner?

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-05-31 13:03:46

IMHO, it’s the people who need to muster the will. DC will never do so on its own.

Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 14:51:41

Amen, brothah!

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Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-05-31 12:03:51

is there a way to see new development plans by state/county
tia

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 13:43:02

I’m positive there is.
Call up your county govt. and ask for the development department and then ask staff what the process is whereby you may receive notice of submitted applications. Maybe it’ll be email or maybe mailed, you’ll find out. You can probably pick out more specifically what you want to know, if it’s a specific area or a specific project or long-term plan or whatever, oh, and get the head planner’s name and contact info, too.

As for state? You wanna know everything that’s gettin’ developed in the whole state?! Wow. Then you got a lot of calling to do, taxmebootay.

If it’s a state project, or on state lands, or is an interjurisdictional project—and this is very general, and I don’t know what you want to know here—then call up the state economic development office and ask them your questions. They can at least tell you who to call.

Comment by ATE-UP "The Geo-Duck"
2009-05-31 14:31:13

Oly!

Do you like my new name???

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 16:49:42

I LOVE your new name! It’s the best name in the world, possibly!
Yes, I admire your enthusiasm for astonishing-looking clams, good sir.

…Say, did you know that the geoduck is the official mascot of the Evergreen State college, here in Olympia?
And the school motto is: Omnia Extares (”let it all hang out”)
Hahahah! Yes, really!

*falls off chair laughing *

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Comment by B. Durbin
2009-05-31 17:41:13

“Omnia Extares”
Mascot: Geoduck

THAT is comedy gold!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:08:01

“‘If I would have known what was going to happen, I would have gotten a fixed rate,’ said Ronald Rostran, who bought a new three-bedroom, two-bath house in Homestead in the summer of 2007 for $250,000. ‘We thought we could stay in the house for two or three years and then sell it. I had no idea.”’

You also would have gotten a smaller house, funded by a loan of a size for which your income would have been sufficient to repay it.

And by the way, what is stopping him from selling the home in 2010 at a price which the market will bear? Could it possibly be the inability to pay off the loan at 2007 price levels?

Comment by snake charmer
2009-05-31 14:59:16

You really had to have fallen off the turnip truck to buy in Florida in 2007 with those kind of expectations. But hey, this state historically has been full of turnip trucks with people fighting each other for the right to fall off.

Comment by InMontana
2009-05-31 18:28:30

Best LOL today.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-05-31 18:26:14

There were many blogs, including Ben’s blog back in the summer of 2007 warning of financial meltdowns causing further price declines in housing.

Why would someone not educate himself about the market fundamentals, which pointed in the direction of further price declines?

However, my real estate “tycoon-wanna-be” friend called me a rent slave in 2007, so there were still quite a few kool-aid drinkers.

 
 
Comment by Mugsy
2009-05-31 12:10:59

“Ginn knew how to generate a buying frenzy by holding lavish parties where potential buyers greatly outnumbered available lots, say agents and investors who attended the events. ‘You would come to one of Ginn’s sales weekends and you would be drinking and thinking, ‘I hope I get chosen as one of the select few who gets to buy a lot,’ recalled Hilton Wiener, a lawyer who bought an investment property at Tesoro. ‘The setting is very lush: hand-rolled cigars, fancy parties, vans with the Ginn name plastered on them.’”

If they’d only had some sort of “financial vomitorium” the Central Florida bubble would have never ended! Why doesn’t anybody ever ask me about these kinds of things?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:13:27

Many people are seen speculating in the MSM about what would constitute signs of a housing market bottom. My preferred indicator: The housing market news becomes so boring that there are not enough articles for Ben Jones to put together a post. We are not there yet — not even close, in fact…

Comment by drumminj
2009-05-31 21:01:10

I will be sad when that day comes…

it’s not just about housing. Lots of good stuff discussed here. Would be a shame to lose this meeting place.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:25:42

“Mariah Fox has been trying unsuccessfully to refinance her ARM and is hoping she’ll qualify for one of the new federal packages that help people with upside-down loans.”

I was looking for a bailout in all the wrong places
Looking for a bailout in too many faces…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:28:53

”’I wanted to repair the house and go through graduate school without being stressed out,’ said the mother of three. ‘There wasn’t much fear about [an ARM] then and the plan was to refinance in a couple of years before it started readjusting. At the time, it seemed like a good idea.”’

Which part seemed like a better idea: The plan for a mother of three to go through graduate school, or the plan to refi the ARM in a couple of years before it adjusted?

 
Comment by MadBoy
2009-05-31 12:32:22

Was in Florida last week, making a huge donation to Disney…..

There is nothing but construction between Disney World and Orlando International airport. At least 1/4 to 1/2 of the construction was commercial property - all strip malls and all in need of tenants. A lot of the residential properties were still in some stage of construction.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:35:32

“‘Most of our loan consultants wouldn’t put somebody in an adjustable unless it was their intent to be out of the house before it reset,’ said said Chris Buttafuoco, managing director of residential lending at Great Florida Bank. ‘We used it as a vehicle for folks not planning to be in the home long-term.”’

Is Chris one of Joey’s relatives?

How would selling a home before the ARM reset save one from the underwater loan problem? This does no compute.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:42:53

“With the pain and perfection of hindsight, the world now knows just how destructive ‘irrational exuberance’ can be. A housing bubble, coupled with deeply flawed credit practices and risk mismanagement, triggered a financial disaster of epic proportions.”

If the world knows how destructive ‘irrational exuberance’ can be, and the government is presumably part of the world, why are they working so hard to rekindle it by using housing market stimulus measures, such as federal tax credits monetized into down payments, to encourage fence sitters to catch themselves falling knives?

Comment by snake charmer
2009-05-31 15:00:46

+1

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-05-31 15:43:27

When the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, every problem in the world starts looking like…

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:46:20

“But who will secure all the foreclosed homes if a storm does approach? No one really knows. If the bank hasn’t yet taken the title of a home, the property is in a kind of limbo, and local officials or homeowners associations may have no legal right to trespass and secure it. And many hard-hit counties don’t have the money or manpower to do it.”

This situation certainly does sound like a perfect candidate for cash-strapped governments to step aside and let the free market decide the fate of these limbo homes. If the current owner takes a total loss because they cannot figure out how to find a buyer, that is their problem, not mine.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:59:04

The only proper role for government I can think of in this situation would be to charge the owners (lenders) a hefty fine for failing to maintain properties, with a provision to confiscate the property and sell it if the fines are not paid in a timely manner. The fine should be sufficient to pay local service providers to maintain the home to the same standards a responsible owner-occupant would maintain it, thereby internalizing potential costs that would otherwise be imposed on owners of surrounding homes.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2009-05-31 12:47:39

”’I wanted to repair the house and go through graduate school without being stressed out,’ said the mother of three.

Like living within your means???? When you live within your means, your stress goes lower. It is very calming crawling in your own bed at night knowing that you can afford or have paid for what is around you. When you borrow money you have no hope of paying back, you stress out.

And PS. Who would not want to repair their house and go to grad school on someone else’s dime? The entitlement mentality of some people is sick.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 12:56:01

“The median sales price for single-family homes in April was $113,600, a 29 percent drop compared with the year-ago price of $160,000. The median price was $123,700 in March. The last time the median price was lower was in April 2002, when it was $109,300.”

Sounds like we now could afford to move back to the county where I was born, provided we could find work there. BTW, that one-month drop in price levels between March 2009 and April 2009 occurred at an annualized rate of -((113,600/123,700)^12-1)*100 = 64 percent. That, my friends, is a seriously steep rate of decline! I predict a bottom in the Cocoa Beach market within a year if this rate of decline continues to play out. For instance, if homes continued to fall at the same pace from March 2009 through March 2010, then by next spring, their value would drop to 123,700*(113,600/123,700)^12 = $44,512 — almost affordable if you don’t mind the occasional hurricane!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-05-31 13:06:02

“A lack of scrutiny helped enable the financial crisis. More watchdogs are needed — not just on Wall Street but here at home, to catch the mortgage fraud, inflated appraisals and other improper activity that contributed to the destructive bubble.”

I suggest the Fed as Uebermensch housing market policeman, as an acknowledgment of what fantastic work they did to foresee the potential housing bubble and take actions in advance to prevent its occurrence.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 13:45:00

BTW, I’ve changed my mind, instead of HBB SKF on my specialty plate, I’m going to get the UCF plate and have SN8THSX on it.

Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 14:44:02

“SN8THSX”

That is PRICELESS, Muggy. Oh, please, please, go for it. The Palmster begs you.

 
Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-31 15:16:55

Please help - I’m either drunk or retarded…maybe both - please explain the meaning of SN8THSX vanity plate.

Thanks…hiccup!!!

Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 15:30:17

SN8TH = Snaith, as in Sean Snaith, the Florida economist from Cali. UCF is the University of Central Florida, the propaganda mill that employs him, courtesy of the Florida taxpayer. I leave it to you to figger out the “SX” part.

It’s a real inside Florida HBB crowd joke. Only Muggy could have come up with that one. Hat tip!

 
Comment by Nudge
2009-05-31 15:32:10

Snaith sux?

Comment by ATE-UP "The Geo-Duck"
2009-05-31 15:48:39

Nudge:

By George, I think u got it! I couldn’t figure it out either! Great Job!!

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Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-31 16:03:21

Thanks…but who (hiccuup) (belch) is Snaith in this whole thing?

Here’s (takes a big gulp of cheap beer) a few other ideas:

GRNSPSX

YLOWMNSX

WSBITEME

FKHDGIES

INFLRURDY

OPTARMKLS

URBRKIMN

FSTPFLPR

RUAFBHA

NOFBHERE

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 17:23:58

Wow, watching. I especially liked ‘NOFBHERE’, but they were alllll good.
I can see that drinking cheap beer makes you extra brilliant!
And I’m happy to report that it has the same effect on me.
(hiccup)

*falls right off splintery wooden chair with laughter *

 
Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-31 17:44:13

Allll good? Heck, I wrote em’ a few hours ago and can’t figure out at least four of them!

I ran out of cheap beer an hour ago and had to dig into my reserve stock of Bush Light ; )

Hiccupppp!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 18:10:25

I ran out of cheap beer an hour ago and had to dig into my reserve stock of Bush Light ; )

Man, that’s hard times. Although I’m glad you had the foresight to lay in an emergency stash.
I ran out of home-brew and now I’m on ‘Keystone Ice’. (Yes, really. That’s actually meant to be drinked.)

Besides, I needed some black- and- silver-colored strips of aluminum.
See, when I buy beer at the store I firstly consider if it’s on sale, and secondly if I need that color of the can for a project. Priorities, man, priorities.

 
Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-05-31 18:30:53

Priorities, Gal, Priorities,

I’ve got mine inline - a can of beer should contain…BEER…I won’t pay extra for strawberries, lemon, ice or any other such crap!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-05-31 13:51:33

“The cause of sustainable growth might also benefit from better use of data that could serve as an early-warning system on speculative excess. These indicators could include such numbers as the proportion of homes purchased as primary residences; median price compared to median income; and divergences from historical norms in price appreciation.”

These warning signs were all out there, as much as many “experts” tried to ignore them or dismiss them, yet we were told it’s hard to identify bubbles and we shouldn’t do anything to stop them. Never mind the carnage that ensues when certain types of bubbles burst and the impact on peoples lives. From the onset of the housing bubble to its eventual demise might take 20 to 25 years, maybe longer. That’s huge as is the tremendous impact on people for such an extended period of time. By some of these same measures, we are still nowhere near the bottom.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 14:31:39

OH, PUHLEEZE! This is a good part of what’s wrong with South Hillsborough:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/apa/1197320850.html

They don’t show a pic, but gimme a break. If it’s in Ruskin, I can guarantee this tin can ain’t worth more than $500 a month in rent. And $400 would be more like it.

Same with a lot of the other rentals around here, waaayyy overpriced. People still think their property craps gold dubloons.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 14:50:38

Today was a gorgeous day here in the Tampa Bay area, warm but relatively dry. What we’d normally have in May, but for the unusual rain storms. And thanks to those rain storms, the air was delightful. Went over to the fitness center and worked out a little, then enjoyed the outdoor pool for a couple of hours. Nice little breeze after coming out of the water, very comfortable. Great contrast of colors, green trees against the blue of the sky. Very mellow day that reminded me of why I like it here.

I don’t expect everyone to like Florida. It’s definitely an acquired taste. I’m just a tad heartbroken at the havoc wreaked by the developers, politicians and illegals.

Comment by snake charmer
2009-05-31 15:03:37

It’s about time we had a day like this. Earlier this month it rained for something like thirteen out of fifteen days. I haven’t seen anything like it since 1997, when we set a lot of precipitation records.

 
Comment by ATE-UP "The Geo-Duck"
2009-05-31 15:15:10

Sounds like a nice day Palmy.

Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 15:38:54

It was great, ATE! You can have days like that, too, when you get back here.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 17:33:30

I’m just a tad heartbroken at the havoc wreaked by the developers, politicians and illegals.

Yes, we all know your heart, palmy. Tough and good, if also just a weeeeee little teensy bit crusty…
:)

 
Comment by mikey
2009-05-31 18:13:10

“I don’t expect everyone to like Florida. It’s definitely an acquired taste. I’m just a tad heartbroken at the havoc wreaked by the developers, politicians and illegals.”

…and you’ve got BUGS that are bigger than me.

;)

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-05-31 15:02:50

Here ya go, Oly.

Housing bubbles, credit bubbles, snot bubbles…

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/muggyFL/IMG_2170.jpg

Comment by ATE-UP "The Geo-Duck"
2009-05-31 15:47:23

LMAO!!!!!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 17:08:02

Oh, gosh, thank you so much, Muggy. Why, just the other day I was considering asking you to post us a new photo of mini-Muggy but I thought you might be busy day-trading, you know how you do…

Hahahaahah! That is a SUPER photo! Did you laugh so hard when you took it that you about swallowed your camera? I would have.

Oh, you know what, be sure to save that one especially, so you can produce it in a few years when he’s in high-school and brings home his pretty cheerleader date.

Comment by ATE-UP "The Geo-Duck"
2009-05-31 17:42:05

One of my posts, three hours ago, about Charlie, Ivan, Francis, and Jeannie, my little friends I met the first 2 months I moved to Florida from Illinois, in 2004, (poor Charlie…didn’t like my roof)…

Anyway, my post went to Pluto.

Oly, how does that happen?

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-05-31 18:05:39

Besides your roof and hurricanes, did you discuss cannibalism, lentils and/or your panties?
Because that’s what always makes MY posts go to Pluto, it seems to me.
*shakes head sadly *

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Comment by Wickedheart
2009-05-31 20:56:48

Well, I never discuss any of those things, well, not on the HBB anyway and lately most of my posts ( like 99%) go to Pluto.

 
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-05-31 18:09:51

Fab, Muggy! No wonder you’re entranced by the kid. He’s a winner for sure, snot bubbles and all. I’ve got a stool just like that and I’m assuming from the doorway and the wall texture you’re in one of those older Fla homes I’m so fond of.

 
 
Comment by Jill N.
2009-05-31 18:28:40

The credit markets are loosening slightly, but it is still really hard to qualify to buy property in the Pan Handle area.

 
Comment by still_waiting
2009-06-01 08:34:15

At the risk of being a jerk who drops in out of the blue without having read the great deal of information about the Florida real estate situation available on this blog, I have a question. (I’m a long time reader/occasional poster on this blog but my focus has always been on Northern Virginia, not Florida).

I have a relative who wants to buy in the Tampa area. Can anyone recommend a quality RE site and/or agent in that area? In NoVa, we have franklymls.com which is a no b.s. site that is just pure gold.

Thanks in advance.

Comment by ATE-UP "The Geo-Duck"
2009-06-01 14:30:27

Re-post this for Palmetto. He didn’t see it, and will help. if he can.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-06 08:42:17

88

 
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