Something Different Is Going On
The Philadelphia Inquirer reports from Pennsylvania.”On its stylish Web site, Creating Real Estate Innovations promises ‘unique, deeply satisfying living experiences’ in Philadelphia. Yet after five years that spanned both the heady days of the real estate boom and the hellish days of the bust, CREI’s creative output consists of little more than abandoned projects and unfinished condominium buildings. Robert King, project manager of Anthony Biddle Contractors Inc., of Ambler, said that if the bank took the building back at the sale, ‘there is very little likelihood that we’ll ever get paid the hundreds of thousands of dollars we’re owed’ for shoring up American Loft’s foundation.”
“The balance owed for the foundation work was never paid, King said. ‘They did give us a condo unit in American Loft,’ he said. ‘But what good does that do us when the bank owns the building.’”
“Price break on luxury condos in striking glass tower in Center City. Best offers over $250,000 considered. That’s the strategy for moving 40 of the 178 units still unsold at the Murano at 21st and Market Streets, to be sold at auction for sums 50 percent below their original list price later this month.”
“What happens to those who have already paid full freight for their condos? Jon Gollinger, president of Accelerated Marketing Partners, of Boston, which is handling the sale for Murano’s developer, planned to address that last night at a closed meeting of Murano’s property owners. ‘Of course, we wanted them to know what was going on before we began publicizing it, but we are counting on the fact that people who bought into the Murano were looking for a particular lifestyle,’ Gollinger said.”
“Toll Bros. Inc. yesterday reported a second-quarter net loss of $83.17 million, compared with a net loss of $93.74 million, a year earlier, on revenue 51 percent lower than the same 2008 period. While saying that it appears ’some buyers are beginning to reenter the new-home market’ and that cancellations are leveling off, CEO Robert I. Toll also observed that ‘concerns about job security and the economy continue to inhibit traffic and the conversion of deposits to contracts.’”
“Despite lower sales, especially in the New York market, ‘we’re still making a bushel of money,’ Toll said during a conference call.”
From Bloomberg. “Toll Brothers Inc. and Hovnanian Enterprises Inc. fell in New York trading after their fiscal second-quarter losses exceeded analysts’ estimates and U.S. job losses mounted. Hovnanian reported land impairments of about $319 million in the quarter. The company ‘mothballed’ 9,800 lots in the second quarter, halting sales and development on those properties until housing values improve, Hovnanian CEO Ara Hovnanian said in a conference call.”
“About 1,500 of those lots are in Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey, where a waterfront development with views of Manhattan was postponed. The mothballed lots account for about 45 percent of all those owned by Hovnanian, according to an investor presentation.”
“‘It just doesn’t make sense to go forward,’ Hovnanian said on the call. The homebuilder has a three-year supply of lots, he said.”
The Maryland Daily Record. “Just a couple of blocks from the blue-light police cameras on Belair Road in Northeast Baltimore are houses with porches and front lawns, and trees that line the streets. But lately, Belair-Edison has also had ‘For Sale’ signs. Lots of them.”
“This area of Northeastern Baltimore saw more foreclosure filings than any other neighborhood in 2008 and the first months of 2009, according to the Baltimore Neighborhood Indicators Alliance. Local housing counselors say the high foreclosure rate was caused in part by increased sales during the housing boom coupled with a decrease in income during the recession, leaving many new homeowners unable to pay the mortgage.”
“A few miles away from the shady lawns of Belair-Edison, the number of families seeking foreclosure prevention assistance at St. Ambrose Housing Aid Center, has doubled in the past two years and could double again by the end of 2009. ‘We’ve seen our caseload go from 700 (families) a year, to 1,400 last year,’ said Vincent P. Quayle, executive director of St. Ambrose. ‘This year we’re probably going to see 3,000. ‘Right now at St. Ambrose I’ve got 10 people working on this,” Quayle said. “We used to have two counselors.’”
“The signs of economic trouble were apparent in Baltimore’s housing market well before the stock market plummeted in the fall of 2008. The median price of a Baltimore house decreased nearly 35 percent from its peak in July 2008 to last January, according to the Maryland Association of Realtors.”
“In Quayle’s experience, there used to be three main reasons why people lost their houses: They got sick, they lost their jobs or their marriages failed. That was true until about five years ago. ‘Five years ago, my chief counselor came to me and said, ‘Vinnie,’ he said, ’something different is going on out there,’ Quayle said. ‘We’re beginning to see families, not for those reasons, but we’re beginning to see families who could never really afford to buy the house in the first place.’”
“Quayle said…’the industry came up with gimmicks to make it easier for folks like this to buy houses.’”
“Gimmicks like no-interest loans, or loans where the initial calculation of the monthly payment includes just the monthly mortgage, leaving out the cost of taxes or insurance. That means an unexpectedly large payment later. People on fixed incomes or living paycheck to paycheck didn’t catch on, Quayle said.”
“The staff at St. Ambrose has seen another sign of trouble, Quayle said: a demographic change in clientele. ‘We’re seeing more stable people, more middle-income people. Their problem is they bought the home for $400,000, now it’s worth $250,000… They’re trying to figure out what to do.’”
The Memphis Commercial Appeal in Tennessee. “By early May, the 2-acre yard marred by tall weeds, dead tree branches and leaning fences branded the five-bathroom house in Germantown as a foreclosure. With neighboring homes valued at more than $1 million, the feral yard at 2420 Johnson finally received a rough mow arranged by the city. Sold for an unusually high $1.3 million in 2004, the vacant house has been in foreclosure twice since 2005.”
“In communities where protecting home values is practically the prime directive, the Shelby County Assessor’s office reports that values in suburban towns have risen since 2005, often by double digits.”
“Jimmie Tapley is a VP and Bob Tapley a broker with Crye-Leike Realtors in Memphis. Loose lending and escalating mortgages are a major cause of foreclosures in the suburbs, too, the Tapleys said. But even those mortgages might have remained viable in some cases if job or business losses hadn’t hit.”
“‘It’s hard to say who is to blame,’ he said. ‘I think there were a lot of mortgages made that should have never been made. What that would have meant though is a lot of people owning might not have been able to.’”
“Phyllis G. Betts, director of the Center for Community Building and Neighborhood Action at the University of Memphis, cites ‘pushing the envelope foreclosures’ as a primary cause in the suburbs. Two-year ‘teaser’ mortgage interest rates allowed homeowners who would have succeeded with a lower-priced home to buy a more expensive one, she said.”
“They bet that home values would rise and that they could refinance before mortgage rates escalated.”
“In upscale areas, vacant foreclosures are less likely to be abused or to attract flocks of investors, Betts said. In many cases they’ve become very good deals for those seeking home ownership. The exception: Unfinished subdivisions in some areas of southeast Shelby County in particular won’t be good deals until a plan and assurances are made that vacant lots, unfinished streets and vacant homes will be taken care of, Betts said.”
The Courier Journal from Kentucky. “Amid one of the toughest housing markets in decades, some downtown Louisville condominium projects are being delayed, while developers turn others into rentals or try promotions such as offering to pay buyers’ mortgage payments for a year. A Courier-Journal review of 12 projects in the downtown area shows that five — mostly larger ones, representing a total of 760 units — are on hold, including one in foreclosure. And of the seven projects completed or partly completed in the past several years, only 77 of 287 units have sold.”
“Louisville Metro Mayor Jerry Abramson echoed the comments of developers, real estate agents and others when he predicted it will be a temporary downturn that reverses once the economy picks up.”
“‘It’s not good, but we’re really strong, compared to our sister cities around the country,’ Abramson said. He said he’s confident the same downtown attractions that started the condo building boom a few years ago ‘will reignite the investment of folks looking for a downtown experience.’”
“Ice House Lofts, initially was planned to include several dozen condos with prices starting at $189,000, said David Barhorst, a partner in the proposed project. But he said a large number of condos for sale downtown, combined with weak demand at higher price levels, prompted a shift to offering half the 52 units as rentals.’
“Work on the Ice House project was expected to start as early as the end of 2007. Barhorst said he now hopes to start construction this fall.”
“Gallery Square Lofts and Fifth Street Terraces also are welcoming renters after being initially planned as condos only. Lamont Breland, who represents the fourth company to market Fifth Street Terraces in as many years, said he’s even offering to pay buyers’ mortgages and maintenance fees for six months. At the 42-unit Mercantile Gallery Lofts, buyers are being offered one year of no homeowners’ association fees and no payments on a 30-year mortgage.”
“‘Clearly the momentum that was there a couple of years ago has slowed down,’ said Duane Schrader, who with wife Nancy bought a condominium a year ago at Bycks Lofts. But Schrader believes the condo will be a solid long-term investment. ‘I wouldn’t want to force it on the market right now, but we plan to stay.’”
‘Toll Bros. Inc. yesterday reported a second-quarter net loss of $83.17 million…on revenue 51 percent lower than the same 2008 period. ‘Despite lower sales, especially in the New York market, ‘we’re still making a bushel of money,’ Toll said’
Note to Toll employees; dust off that resume.
I went to see Toll Bros “Naval Square” in Phila in October 2007, and they’re still wasting their money coming after me with postcards.
What was your opinion of them?
The Slim family opinion of Toll goes like this:
My parents have lived in Chester County since 1966. (I grew up there. Left the area in 1975.)
Over the years, we’ve watched in horror as lovely farmland and woodland has been paved over with houses. We’re especially pained by the poorly built McMansions that Toll has splattered about the area.
And how do we know that they’re poorly built? Well, a family friend once worked for Toll. While in their employ, he created the following slogan:
Toll Brothers homes: Guaranteed for five years. Then they fall apart.
Slim’s mom will recite that slogan whenever she gets the opportunity. And, if she doesn’t get the opportunity, she makes the opportunity.
Over the years, we’ve watched in horror as lovely farmland and woodland has been paved over with houses.
That’s the way I felt when I lived in Tucson from ‘83-’05.
Thousands of acres of pristine desert bladed for stucco boxes, big-box shopping centers and strip-malls.
Slim, surely some of the Toll Brothers McMansions are hitting the 5-year mark (certainly Northern Virgina). Any stories of them falling apart yet?
I saw two condoze, one EXTREMELY attractive, ground floor facing a garden, the other larger but dumb view and nothing special. I think they wanted $375K for the small one, but my rejection of it was based more on the trashy surroundings outside the compound. They said they had a minivan going to Center City a couple of times a day, but I don’t like being Marooned.
$375,000 for a condo… see, that’s the thing - until lunacy like that ends, this Bubble isn’t over.
“..will reignite the investment of folks looking for a downtown experience.’”
There it is again! LOL
“Reignite the investment” - is that something like throwing your money in the fireplace - while it’s lit?
“we’re still making bushels of money”
..um, despite
“a second-quarter net loss of $83.17 million”
I could say the same for my 401k/wallet, but you guys would laugh at me.
When I had a Dish being put on my Toll Brothers Built rental, the Installer told me that he:
“had been on hundreds of roofs & never thought he was going to go thru one until he was on our roof”
That’s Toll Brothers Quality right there!
How is a loss of 83 million making “a bushel of money?” WTF?
‘How is a loss of 83 million making ‘a bushel of money?’
The same way he always has; selling stock.
It seems that most people buying stocks have a bucket of money and a box of stupid.
LOL!
If I lose a bunch of money, eventually the bank will come after me. If Toll Bros. loses a bunch of money, they’re making it hand over fist ( bushels ??!! ). Either they’re “making” money in their coporate headquarters basement and should be investigated by the F.B.I. for counterfeiting, or if they’re “making bushels of money” as per their fearless president, then it goes to show how stupid the rest of us folks whose job it is to buy their overpriced crapboxes really are. Pretty stupid, evidently. Does anyone smell a skunk somewhere ?
coporate = corporate. sigh.
hey folks, EVERY plot of land used to be nice before your house was built on it. heck, most of manhattan was farmland.
that be true, indeed. though the older housing areas didn’t experience as much of the scraping and grading, so more of the natural terrain survived.
EVERY plot of land used to be nice before your house was built on it.
Given. But there’s a particular sadness associated with wildcat developments okayed by crooked county officials built way out in the desert before there was money for roads, schools, police or emergency services.
Acres and acres of irreplaceable Sonoran desert (the type with the saguaros) were destroyed for cookie-cutter crapshacks all made possible through the ingenuity of greed and corruption.
To add insult to injury, the subsequent residents of those developments in turn went on a killing spree to rid themselves of nearby coyotes, wildcats, snakes and other peaceful desert inhabitants and loosed their demon-children on what was left of the flora with dirtbikes and ATVs.
Before that, these areas were mostly populated by people on 1+ acre lots who scraped out just enough space to build their house and actually enjoyed living in the desert itself, rather than on an asphalted island plastered onto the face of the land.
Feh.
lavi d,
Wow, I suppose so? I’m good w/ the whole desert thing but I noticed a developer is attempting to build “Coyote Springs” about an hour north of Las Vegas.
The first concern ( would it surprise you? ) is WATER! I think ultimately they’re visualizing NV’s 2nd largest city. I used to be behind it until I read “Starting in the Low $300’s” and now I want to see giant gila monsters take over!
I noticed a developer is attempting to build “Coyote Springs” about an hour north of Las Vegas.
I had thought that that was dead in the water (ha!) in 2007.
Here’s the closest thing I could find that was not an ad for the place.
Beautiful before they scraped it all down..
There used to be beautiful Date Palm Groves in Palm Desert all the way down past Indio, but the PTB/developers let them all die and put in houses sidebyside literally.
Those groves were so beautiful and one developer said that is why people came here to buy. So I said, then WHY are you letting them die and removing them?
chirp chirp chirp chirp…
no answer.
Beautiful before they scraped it all down..
There used to be beautiful Date Palm Groves in Palm Desert all the way down past Indio, but the PTB/developers let them all die and put in houses sidebyside literally.
Those groves were so beautiful and one developer said that is why people came here to buy. So I said, then WHY are you letting them die and removing them?
chirp chirp chirp chirp…
no answer.
TEST?
The photo of the future PGA flog course reminds me of Aruba, many yrs ago, the flog course there was that plastic green turf and assorted goats/sheep? all over the place with their fur molting off in ugly dirty brown homeless like rastafarian dred locks..
Oly gal, make it sound pretty or funny!
Anyway, it was really really rag tag.
Atlantic City sits on the northeast of Absecon Island, a barrier island separated from the mainland by a bay, one to two miles of smaller and larger tufts of spongy islands. Development took place naturally on the sandy waterfront and on the firm mainland, causeways were built up with fill to connect the two. Well, from the mid 60’s to 70’s, developers turned to the spongy islands– which we always called “The Weeds,” but which they came to call “Meadows”– and on them they proceeded to build.
I really thought about all the homes sitting on “The Weeds” just the other day, June 1st: Hurricane season commenced. Atlantic City hasn’t had a real hurricane since 1944. If anything of a magnitude the size of that hurricane hit, then it would be truly devastating. “The Weeds” just cannot hold up all the infrastructure and structures these developers piled on them.
Sounds like if you want to own Toll you should buy bonds and prepare to have them converted to stock.
“They bet that home values would rise and that they could refinance before mortgage rates escalated.”
Pretty much sums up the gamble/bubble mentality.
Here’s one that long time readers may remember:
‘It just doesn’t make sense to go forward,’ Hovnanian said on the call. The homebuilder has a three-year supply of lots, he said.’
Back in 2005, I didn’t have a lot to hang my hat on except the crazyness. I would post about certain corporations having 7 years of supply, and that was when they couldn’t build fast enough. Talk about bubble mentality…
There is one guy who kept buying up huge tracts and only paid out half of the commisions, only partial payments on those tracts and has since gone missing. Somewhere in the PI islands?
Apparently, or allegedly there are a lot of sellers of those huge tracts looking for this guy and their money.
Some Center City condo buildings have been hit quite hard, such as the Aria at 1419 Locust St. In January, a bankruptcy judge appointed U.S. Equities, a Chicago developer, receiver of 55 of the 62 unsold residential units there after the developer, Universal Residential, stopped paying its lender, iStar.
88% unsold - whoda thunk?
Well some of us did view the Philadelphia condo explosion with some skepticism. I used to ask the REIC biatches I worked for “who’s going to buy all these condos”?
They told me “New Yorkers”! After 9/11 some nervous Manhattanites did find their way to Philadelphia, but really - anyone who wants the NYC experience - and can afford it - stays there.
Frienda mine has an art gallery at 1616 Walnut (3 or 4 blocks?), hope he wasn’t counting on a lotta foot traffic from that Aria bldg.
“who’s going to buy all these condos”?
That question gets uttered alot around here too (Chicago). The locals prefer to say it’ll be empty nester suburbanites or Upper Midwestern refugees fleeing the implosions in OH, MI, etc. Some wingnuts even cite foriegners buying to have a place for the 2016 Olympic games.
Naturally, I know with absolute certainty who won’t be buying them.
“who’s going to buy all these condos”?
The “rich” people from the snowbird states of course! They’re all millionares and they all want to live “here”(where ever that is). What the hell kind of question is that? Oh I get it…. you’re an angry lowlife burger flipping renter.
Never have so many looked for so few to buy so much.
LOL!
How very “statesman-like” of you. Yielding the floor to the gentlemen from Illinois.
We shall go on to the end, we shall sell them in France, we shall sell them on the seas and oceans, we shall sell them with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Condominiums, whatever the cost may be, we shall sell them on the beaches, we shall sell them on the landing grounds, we shall sell them in the fields and in the streets, we shall sell them in the hills, we shall never surrender!
That was pretty much the attitude at my REIC workplace.
Nobody was thinking it through…there was just that gimme mine euphoria, and everything was boomtime, every ground-breaking was a party, the press couldn’t get enough of the condo “glama” shots…
and there I sat at my lowly Mac wondering where all the buyers would come from.
Welcome to Future Section 8 Highrises of America.
we shall never surrender!
You forgot to add, “Hrmph!”
“we shall sell them on the beaches” LOL!
Oh and don’t forget thine amenities and upscale shopping!
Nobody was thinking it through…there was just that gimme mine euphoria, and everything was boomtime, every ground-breaking was a party, the press couldn’t get enough of the condo “glama” shots…
There is a bang-up novel there with definite possibilities for optioning as a blockbuster drama/romance film.
Think, “Wall Street” for the aughts.
I can say with certainty that anyone fleeing the “implosion” in Michigan probably doesn’t have too much spare cash to spend on trendy downtown Chicago condos. Sounds nice, though.
Who the heck wants to live on “Locust St.”?
What is it, just down from Ebola Avenue and Swine Flu Lane?
There is a 666 Wilson St. for sale and the listing sheet assures potential buyers that the house number can be changed.
Agents note: “Mind the dog, Cursed One, in back, who is ill-tempered as the occupant. Gravestones, urn collection and wooden boxes buried in side yard to be removed prior to sale, per listing agreement.”
I once had the license plate 1HYK666, which I told people stood for “Hell’s young kid” 666. Evangelicals at work gave me a ration of stuff about it and told me to go down to the DMV and get it changed.
One of my favorite apartment buildings in San Fran is numbered 666. It’s a nice 1920s beautiful building. I often wondered if the number was to indicate it was good for love nests or bootleggers or other like minded people.
New Yorkers moving to Philly for a low-budget big city experience? Yes. However, a few years back, I recall reading several articles in the Inky about aging baby boomers leaving their suburban homes after 25-30 years and moving into the city once the kids are grown and moved out. Seems they didn’t want to spend time doing yard work, and also wanted to arts scene.
Obviously, both those groups didn’t materialize like the developers planned.
“we are counting on the fact that people who bought into the Murano were looking for a particular lifestyle”
That has to be the quote of the day. If they loved “lifestyle” at 100%, they’re going to love it more now that its available for 50% less, right?
Yeah, that stood out to me as well.
“Lifestyles of the broke and stupid”
How’s that workin out for ya? LOL. I love the smell of shadenfreude in the morning.
Pretty prescient to call the thing the Morono. You gotta feel weird buying in a building with that name.
Isn’t that the LDS angel with the trumpet?
Isn’t that the LDS angel with the trumpet?
That’s the angel “More-Than-I”
haha!
If you want exciting city life, come on down to Baltimorgue, just rated the most deadly large city in America - we’re number 1! Where else can murder-one get you only a few years, or none at all if there’s only 1 witness? And let’s not forget our public beatings in the Inner Harbor at various times of the year!
Yes, indeed, Baltimorgue is a happening place, and for only $250,000 to $300,000, you can get a crumbling rowhouse on the doorsteps of the ghetto complete with blue-lights at night and a tree-free view in all directions of other crumbling rowhouses. We even have regular watermain breaks and fires that burn out multiple rowhouses, so your infestment will always be near the action!
Heavens, does this state have a long way to fall when it comes to real estate prices!
Bbbbbuuuuutttt
Baltimore is by DC !!
Capital of the world!
Money filter town for all the bailout money!!
We have all the jobs here, don’t ya know!!!!!!
The worst, most white-knuckle drive I ever had was the 1-95 corridor between Lorton, VA to just north of Bawmore. It is really a shame to see what has happened to Bawmore, used to be a very interesting, charming city back in the day.
“The worst, most white-knuckle drive I ever had was the 1-95 corridor between Lorton, VA to just north of Bawmore”
You got that right! It’s as bad, if not worse, than the stretch of 95 from Trenton NJ into Hoboken. Pissed off adrenaline junkies weaving through traffic at 90+ mph. Its like the chariot scene from Ben Hur on meth.
I’ve been living in Florida too long, the highways here tend to be wider and easier for me to navigate. Soon’s I had to navigate 1-95 in the mid-Atlantic, New England states, I drove with a silent scream all the way.
How do you guys do it, please tell me? My adrenals were shot after that one little trip.
some are just in denial the whole drive, some grit their teeth and go…some close their eyes and foot it while they merge onto the highway.
Some use the spiritual technique and pray, chant, do affirmations while on I-95.
If you’re from Delaware, you just find the fastest guy in your field of vision and stay on his tail.
phillygal,
Oh btw, loved… the “glama shots…”
I move for inclusion into the HBB Glossary of Stupid REIC-speak terms!
“95 is the Devil’s Highway”
-Polly, upon reaching Turkey Day destination on Long Island a few years ago, having started not too far from DC 8 hours previously
Not only did you travel the Devil’s Highway, but then you had to drive the highways of Long Island. If that isn’t adding insult to injury, I don’t know what is.
I’ve described it as a parking lot moving at 85 mph. Truly a frightening drive. Then again, now I deal with people reading, abruptly changing lanes and sleep driving on 280 from SF to Palo Alto…
It is really a shame to see what has happened to Bawmore, used to be a very interesting, charming city back in the day.
How long ago was that day? My father worked there in the early 70’s and didn’t like it much then.
I don’t know since I”m not from there - only visited - but maybe it’s the 1950s. Ever see Hairspray?
John Waters is a Bawdeemorian.
Ah, yes - the classical “Everyone in Maryland is rich because of DC” argument that I hear all the time to justify $250,000 condos, $300,000 townhouses and Post-War shoeboxes, and so on. It is amazing how people buy into this insanity that since “everyone is rich” here, housing must cost an insane amount even though many people are NOT rich, and the wealth of others doesn’t make one’s own purchase of a house at 5x income any more logical. Good stuff!
There are condos for $250K around here? I thought they all started “in the low $400s.”
Not to pick nits, but the correct name is Ballmer. OK, Bawlamer for a few of you, if you must.
How the Oryuls doin, hon? Been downey ayshun lately?
40-50 years ago, 1/3 to 1/2 of the city was “roll up the windows, lock the doors” drive thru territory. Hasn’t changed that much, except for the Inner Harbor, which went from awful to spectacular, now seems to be sliding back to its low entropy state of yore, from what I hear. My brother raised his family for the last 35 years in the same house in Charles Village, and has done OK, but it’s not the option we chose. Hey, they still have the world’s best crabcakes. That’s good for $50-100K house price premium, doncha think?
(I posted below before I saw your crabcake comment!)
As to the pronunciation, around here we have some who say:
“Bawdeemore”.
That’s great to hear, some things never change! My family was originally from Philly but moved to B-town before I was born. Most of my aunts and uncles still lived in and around Philly when I was a kid, and they used to call it Bal-TEE-more. Kind of like Balamorons referring to DEE-Troit, but in reverse, I guess. Or the PO-leece. Or UM-brellas.
Of course, when they came to visit, you always knew what was on the menu for dinner.
Some people from Detroit call it DEE-troit. Not all, but some, usually if they’re joking around. Mostly it’s known as “Detroit” or D-town or ” Downtown” .
I’m sure originally “Debt-troit’ ” but I like the emphasis on DEE as it sounds so much cooler when you say DEE-troit Diesel?
Wouldn’t the French pronounce it “de-twah”?
hey let’s not go there, les Francais gave the Grand Tetons their name, and we know what that means…
My grandpa from Canada ( up-north in eastern Ontario -Smiths Falls ) used to pronounce it “Dee-Troi-IT” with the emphasis on the last syllable. I was never sure how he came up with it, but that was how it was. He had emigrated to Detroit and lived in the area for 70 years, but never lost that pronunciation.
At least you can get some good crab cakes at Inner Harbor.
well I live in Baltimore and really - it’s not bad! Yes, the real estate is out of hand price-wise, we all agree on that … but Baltimore is a really nice city. Seriously.
One thing about defending Balamer against the negative impressions formed by outsiders - People “passing through” see the absolute worst parts of the city that there are to see, by virtue of where the interstates and main highways run.
There are a lot of great sections. Baltimore and Carroll Counties are beautiful. And there are also places that are every bit as bad as described here.
It’s a shame to see the on-going deterioration of the Inner Harbor area, having lived through it’s unbelieveable renaissance as a young adult.
OK, my kid might want to go to Johns Hopkins. And since she isn’t a science nerd, of the type they are over-run with, they might want her to come. So I’m going to see Ballmer this summer.
What are the odds that she gets through four years alive in that city? We’re from Brooklyn and tend to be less afraid, but if you’ve got to spend four years hiding out on campus, why not go to school in the woods?
The area around JHU is not bad at all. A little bit of gentrification in the surrounding neighborhoods, and relatively safe. My brother raised his family there.
Now, the area around JH hospital is another matter entirely. Entirely different part of the city, and 30-40 years ago it was one of the worst areas. I believe it has improved somewhat since a lot of the projects were demolished and rebuilding has gone on, but I’m not sure.
Probably less drunken debauchery per capita at JHU than your typical 4-year, given that the techie nature is so pervasive as you mention, and the engineering undergrad programs are notoriously tough.
such negativity! On the bright side, if she doesn’t make it, she won’t have to worry about the student loans!
Everybody sing! “Alway look on the bright side of life”
A lot of areas in Baltimore got nearly as overheated as DC. Largely as a result of the pressure from DC prices. I myself moved there because I wanted to actually own something and work with my hands. Yes, Bawlmer prices got pretty absurd but DC is just surreal. I still work down in DC but unless and untill prices drop by AT LEAST 50% I will never again live there.
There are still a lot of really great neighborhoods in baltimore, Charles Village, parts of Hamden, Fells Point, parts of Federal Hill, Guilford, etc. I myself live on the bleeding east edge of guilford on Greenmount, just north of 39th. Yeah, I’m a stones throw from the ghetto but I’m used to that because DC is pretty much the same (but at 3 times the cost!!!!).
Also, Having met the ‘Don of Deranged’, Mr John Waters himself I must say that he is the perfect distilation of “Bawlmer” A lot of fun to hang out with but just a little too wierd to ever really feel comfortable around.
Sleepr, sounds as if you must live in York Ct. My older sister rented there back in the 60’s, as her first apartment on her own! Parking all over that area used to be a mess when Memorial Stadium was still there and the Orioles or Colts were playing.
I grew up a couple blocks off of Greenmount (York Rd.) & Northern Parkway. Real estate has always been more expensive the closer you are to DC. DC’ers tend to look down their noses at their neighbors to the north. I went to college in VA and most of my friends were from No VA. I might as well have been from the backwaters of Mississippi given their high regard of Charm City.
DC is still grossly overpriced. Row houses go for a million plus. Definitely not a bargain. But as long as we have a delusional government that thinks it can borrow and spend its way out of this depression, DC real estate prices will continue to be delusional…
The Wire was pretty accurate, then. Scary.
Really???!!! My college age daughter schools in Annapolis and was talking of maybe next year having time to go to the Baltamore clubs with her compatriots. They apparently go into Georgetown, too. Should I be worried?
Ugh! No!!!! It’s just like any city - some neighborhoods are bad, but stay away from those and you’re fine. Most crime in Baltimore is drug related. Don’t buy drugs in the bad parts of town and you’re ok
I have never ever, in my 35 years, been a victim of any kind of crime while living in Baltimore and the surrounding area. I go into the city all the time. I used to work downtown. I live right outside of the city limits now and in a great neighborhood with some of the best schools in the state.
I lived in Charles Village, a block away from Johns Hopkins for a bit too.
And while house prices have gone up insanely everywhere - our house is easily half the cost of a similar home in DC. DC is really insane.
There is more to Baltimore than The Wire, the Inner Harbor, and the crime.
Please don’t be afraid for any of your relatives to visit. They will be fine. And eat some crab cakes!
About 45 years ago or so, I was back east passing through Baltimore and some how, late at night, found myself off the main roads and in a less than desirable neighborhood.
Scared out of my wits, with only my eyes showing, and trying to find a way out, I was pulled over by a squad car. The two officers told me I
was crazy and that they’d get me to the main highway and to stay right on their rear bumper and not to stop for anything, including lights. It took 15 minutes (read hours) to find a spot by a road house where they pulled over and got me started in the right direction down the highway, telling me not to drive in Baltimore at night with California plates.
( About 45 years ago… I was 5 y.o )
Damn, you an old dude Rancher! ( Just kidding )
I’ll be down in K’ Falls again this weekend and I’ve got to say, so far I’m a little disappointed weather-wise? It’s slated to be 59 degrees w/ strong chance of thunderstorms and in a nutshell, not very pleasant. Anyway, we’re going to go down and look in Merrill just for a goof.
Got’s to get stoked up for the mile-high run in September you know? ( Annual PT Test )
At least I got to taste my Social Security, and I’m
noooooooot that old, just a life packed full of
adventure, love, a great lady, and lot’s of really
good booze…..laughing…
In summer, KF’s is hotter than a beach in Hades, and colder than the proverbial well diggers buns in winter. Jump over the Cascades
by lake of the Woods, and check out Medford, a
4 or 5, and then Grants Pass, a 10.
Rancher,
LOL! Right, at least you got a taste!
Yeah, it just goes to show you, you never really ‘know’ a place until you spend a little time there ( and talk to the locals? ) What I did was take a compass and drew concentric and ever larger circles extending out from Marion County.
Then I’d do research on weather patterns going out further and further. A one hour drive from Salem? Forget it, you’re socked in w/ rain. A two hour drive? Bend. Been there on Labor Day and no “gurantee” it won’t be overcast and drizzly. A three to four hour drive? Well now you’re talking Christmas Valley and Silver Lake etc. I guess I’ll never give up hope there’s a “Rolling Kansas” secret oasis of hot dry weather in May and September!
For me, the other 10 mos. of the year really don’t matter. Salem is ‘normally’ just fine June, July and August but if you could find a place to spend your weekends in May & Sept. out of the rain, I would g-l-a-d-l-y pay for ‘that’!
if you could find a place to spend your weekends in May & Sept. out of the rain,
Palm Springs.
I spent a lot of time in Grants Pass back in the late 1970s - I thought it was pretty nice. I was an engineer with Bell Aero. and their mfg. house, Oregon Tech. Products, was in GP. When we got a new board designed I had to go up there to monitor the start of production runs.
My aunt-in-law is a Baltimore native and says there are only two bad parts of town: East Baltimore and West Baltimore.
In truth, there are some very nice parts of town there, in addition to the ghetto hell parts. And some of the close-in suburbs are nice, too. However, I find it to be a very insular city–as a native Oregonian living in D.C., I feel very “foreign” in Baltimore.
Well, that’s pretty much true. North and South B’more have nice areas but the eastern and western edges are crime filled as well as the very center. My friend (native Baltimoron) calls it the bowtie of death.
That Philly story confuses me. Did contractors really take a promise of a condo unit in lieu of payment for services? Talk about doubling down on their risk. Did they forfeit their right to place a mechanics lien on the entire project for the right to place one on just one unit? Color me confused.
They were probably “lucky” to get the unit. All leins except “superliens” i.e. government/tax and (in some states?) HOA are wiped out when the primary forecloses.
Answered the phone reluctantly yesterday.
“Chet?”
That’s not my name, but it could be could mistaken for it if you slurred the sounds.
“Mmmmm hmmm,” I say.
“This is ________ at __________ real estate. You had called me about the lots? I wanted to tell you they were being reduced.”
“Lots?” I ask, never having heard of this woman.
“Yes, the two-acre lots near Clovis Community Hospital have been reduced by $30,000. Chet? Chet?”
“I’m afraid I didn’t call you about that land,” I allow.
“You’re not Chet?”
“I think you have the wrong number.”
CLICK from my end first.
I could almost smell the desperation in her voice.
H3ll, you can’t even depreciate a lot.
Awww, you should have kept her going.
Well, well well… seems justice is finally rolling into town.
The tan man has been charged with fraud. May he follow the path of Ken Lay.
Ken Lay… Didn’t he fake his death? Who would recognize Mozilo if he bleached his face?
At the 42-unit Mercantile Gallery Lofts, buyers are being offered one year of no homeowners’ association fees and no payments on a 30-year mortgage.”
If i don’t have to make any payments on the 30 year mortgage, How does this work? Are they asking for full price all cash or giant balloon after 30 years?
one year of no homeowners’ association fees and no payments on a 30-year mortgage.”
Perhaps they mean one year of no payments on the mortgage as well as a year off the HOA?
I kid you not, I didn’t make this up….
Now the federal government is bringing back the days of 0% down. From Business Week:
Buyers who haven’t owned a home for three years or longer are eligible for an $8,000 tax credit, thanks to a provision in this winter’s stimulus package. Now, under a little-noticed program announced May 29, the Federal Housing Administration will steer the funds to cover closing costs directly—in some cases even offsetting the 3.5% minimum down payment FHA loans require. That’s enough to cover most or all of the down payment and fees for homes up to the U.S. median price, now about $169,000.
Officials hope “monetizing” the tax credit will help revive the housing market, because meeting closing costs is one of the biggest hurdles for new home buyers. The National Association of Home Builders predicts it will add 40,000 to the 160,000 sales originally expected to be spurred by the tax credit. Supporters say the move avoids the worst effects of seller financing, in that the credit is essentially the buyer’s money, and government assistance doesn’t give sellers a perverse incentive to inflate prices in an unsustainable manner.
What could go wrong?
“‘Of course, we wanted them to know what was going on before we began publicizing it, but we are counting on the fact that people who bought into the Murano were looking for a particular lifestyle,’ Gollinger said.”
Folks, we are now selling properties at 1/2 or less of what you paid only a year ago. We hope your massive equity loss and underwater situation doesn’t prevent you from continuing to enjoy the pool and faux gold plated elevators though.
Which Murano is uglier, the building or the SUV?
The new SUV needs a new alternator every yr.
I thought that Japanese cars never broke?
‘They did give us a condo unit in American Loft’
LOL! Who knew condos would become IOUs.
“Hey, Ted, you owe me, man!”
“Bro, sorry, I got this condo in Phillly, it’s yours.”
“Fine, but I want my cordless drill back. Now.”
Hey! The Orange Man has been charged with fraud in a civil suit.
Pity he won’t be doing the perp-walk……..