The Only Difference Is The Date And The Price
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “It was a symbol of Las Vegas largesse during the good times. Now it’s an emblem of recession blues. The Lake Las Vegas resort development flouted good sense and modesty in the tradition of all great Las Vegas dreams. But it has fast turned sour for some. ‘I thought it was a no-lose situation. It ruined me,’ said Ed Santacruz, a former mortgage broker and fortune seeker who let his Lake Las Vegas hotel-condominium go into foreclosure. He had planned to rent out the property to tourists, but couldn’t get enough takers to cover the mortgage. ‘That’s where I messed up, I believed enough in the product and in Las Vegas,’ Santacruz said.”
“To her own disbelief, resident and real estate agent Lynne Hoffman has had her Lake Las Vegas home on the market for three years. She’s dropped the price to $488,000 — $40,000 less than she paid in 2001. She gets offers from potential buyers, she says, but they lowball her lowball price. ‘It’s insane! I’m like, what do you want people? You want this house for a penny? I have to pay the bank,’ she said.”
“Homes are vacant because people have moved out of Central New York and some absentee landlords have just walked away from their properties, city and neighborhood officials said. The problem is getting worse. Gwendolyn Kearse and other residents said they would move if they could, but who would buy a home next to a vacant house? ‘If I could sell this house, I would, but I won’t get as much as I want because of the value of the house,’ Kearse said.”
“Many of Bend’s high-end condominiums — some marketed for more than $1 million — will be occupied this summer, though not in the way their owners originally intended. Instead of the condos selling at prices that might have been obtainable during the housing boom, many of the condos haven’t sold since going on the market and are being converted into vacation rentals.”
“‘They are not selling for what we used to sell them for,’ said Scott Houck, a partner in Deschutes Landing LLC. ‘If we can rent them overnight, it makes more sense. It is a way to make up expenses.’”
“Kathy Estey, managing broker at the John L. Scott Real Estate’s Bellevue Downtown office, said new statistics showed the area moving past balance and toward a seller’s market. ‘Multiple offers are common in the under $400,000 range when the home is priced well, shows nicely and is marketed professionally,’ she said in a listing service news release. ‘Buyers who are waiting for prices to come down more have missed the bottom.’”
“New home builders are offering fewer and fewer incentives, Estey said. ‘In January builders were giving away the farm, by March it was only half the farm, and now they may just give away a chicken or two in order to make the deal.’”
“This week, both Toll Brothers Inc. and Hovnanian Enterprises Inc. were the latest builders to report smaller quarterly losses, rosier sales trends and more prospective buyers visiting model homes. Ultimately, the question of whether the housing market has hit bottom appears to be beyond these top industry executives.”
“‘It’s impossible for us to tell until we get out of the glass and look backward,’ said Robert Toll, chief executive officer. ‘I can’t tell you whether we’re half full or half empty yet.’”
“A key element to recovery for the Las Vegas housing market is making sure that homes are sold to ‘healthy’ buyers, the president of Nevada Association of Realtors said. Devin Reiss, Las Vegas Realtor and president of the state organization, said he’s seen too many examples of people buying beyond their means. ‘The Realtor is not providing the loan, so they don’t ask all the personal finance questions, but they make you aware of the loan itself so you know what to ask your lender and you’re not going into it in the dark,’ he said.”
“Ian Hirsch, operations director for Fortress Credit Services in Las Vegas, said he’s constantly asked who’s to blame for the mortgage crisis. Is it Congress, the banks, the greedy mortgage brokers and real estate agents or the buyers who signed on the dotted line?”
“‘Obviously, there’s plenty of blame to go around,’ he said. ‘We could blame everybody, but that’s not a good idea. Who does it make sense to forgive? Homeowners. We need to keep people in their homes. This is tearing families apart, taking kids out of school. This has bigger consequences than just a house. That’s what I ask my clients. Is this just a house or is this a home?’”
“In two years, Angelo Mozilo went from the charismatic helmsman of America’s top mortgage lender to the badly burned face of the nation’s housing meltdown. Even with the housing market disintegrating around Countrywide, Mozilo appeared confident about the company’s ability to survive. The real culprits, he argued, were the Federal Reserve raising interest rates for too long, crooked real estate speculators, falling housing prices and regulators’ attacks on interest-only and other risky subprime mortgages.”
“Last year, with the housing market in a shambles, he told executives at a mortgage bankers’ conference, ‘You’ve got to be careful here about blaming ourselves too much.’”
“Regulators took on the mortgage industry’s best-known figure Thursday, accusing former Countrywide Financial Corp. CEO Angelo Mozilo of hiding his alarm about risky loans the company was making at the height of the housing boom while he was reaping nearly $140 million in profits on stock sales.”
“‘In all my years in the business I have never seen a more toxic product,’ Mozilo said in an April 2006 message, cited in the suit, about Countrywide’s loans requiring no down payments from borrowers with abysmal credit. ‘Frankly, I consider that product line to be the poison of ours.’”
“Paul Muolo, a National Mortgage News editor who interviewed Mozilo repeatedly over 20 years, said Mozilo became fixated on competing with subprime lenders such as Roland Arnall, whose now-defunct Ameriquest Mortgage Co. once sponsored Major League Baseball and a Super Bowl half-time show. Mozilo ‘was Mr. Mortgage,’ Muolo said. ‘And if he hadn’t followed Roland Arnall down the subprime path this would never have happened. It’s ego and ambition that sunk him.’”
“The day after Countrywide Financial Corp. CEO Angelo Mozilo arranged to start $139 million in stock sales, he told two top deputies there was ‘no way’ to value one of its most popular mortgages. ‘We are flying blind on how these loans will perform in a stressed environment of higher unemployment, reduced values and slowing home sales,’ he wrote in a 2006 e-mail released yesterday by the Securities and Exchange Commission.”
“Howard Weiss is 77 and scared. This year, the semiretired distributor from Phoenix ran into financial problems and stopped making his mortgage payments. He was told his home was scheduled for a foreclosure auction in May. So Weiss scraped together more than $2,000 to stave off the foreclosure. He’s still trying to figure out if he can get a mortgage modification so he can afford his home.”
“‘This is the biggest mess I’ve had in my life,’ Weiss says. “I could break down and cry. I was about to lose everything… I’m so stressed this is going to kill me.’”
“Some are simply planning to walk away from homes they no longer can afford. Shawn Lee, a retiree who owns a home in Seattle, had planned to sell it and retire to his other property in Mesa, Ariz. He bought the Arizona home for $400,000 a few years ago; it’s now worth about $200,000. With his retirement savings hit hard by stock market declines, he doesn’t want to spend what savings he has making payments on the second home.”
“‘I would have to spend my little bit of savings. It’s a very tough situation,’ says Lee. ‘I decided I have to walk away. I won’t have any money for retirement if I keep up with the payments.’”
“A year after taking over a struggling condo project from Boca Developers, mezzanine lender Momentis Property Group is walking away from The Oaks I at Biscayne Landing in North Miami. Momentis, an affiliate of New York based Madeleine LLC and Cerberus Capital Management, said the project had become ‘uneconomical’ for it to own.”
“‘These are extremely challenging times, and Cerberus has lost a tremendous amount of money with the failure of Boca Developers,’ real estate consultant Steven Beauchamp said. ‘Unless a senior lender is willing to take a cut on its loan, there is a good chance the mezzanine lender will walk.’”
“‘Even if the bank came to them and said, ‘We will give you a discount on the note,’ mezz lenders don’t have the money to do that,’ said real estate consultant David Hirschfeld. ‘Most of those mezzanine lenders don’t have the cash flow or capital to continue to fund projects in hopes that in a year or two they will end up selling and getting some of their money back. A lot of these mezz lenders are just giving up.’”
“Of all of the active mortgages in San Diego County, 7 percent are subprime, and 14 percent are Alt-A. Now analysts are trying to gauge the potential impact of defaults in that bigger Alt-A category — what has been called the next wave of potential foreclosures.”
“‘Dave McDonald, a local mortgage broker and president of the San Diego chapter of the California Association of Mortgage Brokers, said he’s been hearing from clients with Alt-A loans. Now, their homes are worth $200,000 less than their mortgages, in some cases. Even though mortgage rates are relatively low, their loans can’t be refinanced because they’re too far upside-down, he said.”
“‘What’s kind of scary to me is that these people are calling me, asking, ‘Should I stop making payments?’ McDonald said. ‘They’re literally stuck, and stuck with very few options other than a short sale or a foreclosure.’”
“Some real estate observers have begun to wax optimistic about the local market — saying a recovery is imminent and the pain is largely past for San Diego County. But McDonald’s conversations with these better-credit borrowers who are now grappling with their loan-to-house value ratio make him skeptical of those reports — though the increased activity is good for real estate professionals.”
“‘I don’t buy the recovery,’ he said. ‘The numbers don’t justify anybody coming out and saying we’ve hit the floor.’”
“But as the Alt-A trouble adds to rising unemployment and other bleak economic news, it doesn’t warrant much extra concern, Goldman said. ‘As worried as I am about the rest of the world collapsing, I’m thinking yeah, that’s important, but it’s just another log on the fire,’ he said.”
“I didn’t know Oregonians hated Californians. I didn’t know I would get a cold snarl from the worker at the poorly lit DMV on South Liberty when I handed in my California I.D. I didn’t know the pastor of a prominent local church would poke fun at potential supporters moving north into his community in lieu of cheaper housing.”
“This last move, in which I came to Salem, was from California. After getting married this past August to a native Salemite I figured I should bring her home. We didn’t just blindly move though. I did my research first. Affordable housing, no rush hour, and no sales tax were all I needed to hear.”
“Upon arrival I was stricken speechless. The weather was great. Our ‘cheap’ rental was way nicer than the pictures on Craigslist. It wasn’t until I started the humbling experience of getting to know the people of Salem that I discovered a softly spoken rule: Oregonians hate Californians.”
“Proud of my move, I would freely tell everyone where I was from until the fact that I was not indigenous started hurting my ability to join the community. Bank tellers ignoring me, the D.M.V. skipping over my number, cops pulling me over for no reason, I quickly changed to Oregon plates and kept my mouth shut about my recent move.”
‘Now, I have learned to blend in. But it’s not like me to be quiet. I’m suggesting a Friends of Californians Alliance. Lets all just get along. Look at what we Californians have to offer. The fact that we can stay up later than 10 p.m. improves the revenue of the restaurants downtown and I think a Surf Shop on Commercial would be a hit. I’m a Californian and I’m okay with that. Can we call a truce? After all, you can’t keep Salem a secret forever. This is a great city.”
“Painful as it is, all this housing distress has one advantage, says Joel Singer, executive VP of the California Association of Realtors. It’s no longer impossible to buy houses in a state where median prices hit nearly $600,000 in the recent boom.”
“‘In a sense, what has occurred is probably in our best interest,’ he told hundreds of real estate agents gathered Thursday in Sacramento for a statewide convention. ‘As brutal as it is if you’re a homeowner who is selling, this incredible drop in prices brings California closer in line to the nation as a whole.’”
“Today’s statewide median, skewed by high numbers of bank repos and other distressed listings: $256,700. ‘That affordability, in itself, will help cure this problem in the future if we can maintain it,’ said Singer. ‘It also makes California, in my book, a more competitive place, something we all need in terms of long-term economic growth.’”
“Las Vegas is in many ways ground zero of the nation’s housing crisis. ‘Bank Owned’ signs are visible all over town. Neal Williams carefully picked his house 14 years ago with his wife and children in mind. Williams is current on his mortgage, but his home’s value has collapsed. ‘I’m scared to look — really scared to look,’ Williams says. ‘I know it has gone down quite a bit. My wife says more than half. I honestly don’t know.’”
“Donald Leffert and his wife, Robyn Eddy-Leffert, just moved into their first home. They had been looking at condos, but the crash in housing prices made bigger homes within reach. While checking out the yard, Donald found the stunning evidence: The real estate brochure from when the house was on the market two years ago.”
“It is identical to his brochure, with two exceptions. The list price then: $400,000. Now: $179,000.”
“‘Everything else on the paper is exactly the same,’ Donald says as he puts the papers side by side. ‘The only difference is the date and the price.’”
‘That affordability, in itself, will help cure this problem in the future if we can maintain it,’ said Singer. ‘It also makes California, in my book, a more competitive place, something we all need in terms of long-term economic growth.’
See? It’s always a good sign when the industry starts talking like us HBBers! My thanks to those who support this blog. Please check back this weekend.
Ben, this thread is so jam packed full of wondrous gems, I sincerely and fondly thank you.
I read it all thoroughly and rapidly cycled through every single emotional state I’ve got, plus I added a few I didn’t know I even had, including odd combinations of: wild outrage, irate dudgeon, giggling rapture, howling merriment, goggle-eyed aghastness, tepid disdain, fulminating wrath, indignant joy, vague pains in my ears, righteous smugness…
I mean, man! I need a little nap, now.
When I get up I’ll read it all again. ‘Cause that was better than the circus!
It’s kind of strange that your disdain was merely tepid, when so many other emotions in the Wondrous Gem Cycle ran to extremes.
Work on that disdain! You’ve earned it.
Well, see, I was plumb wore-out and flagging a bit at that point in the Wondrous Gem Cycle, from all the excitements.
But I had a small nap at lunch-time, so now I’m fully refreshed and ready to be ‘wildly and energetically disdainful’ at this point in time.
You’ve nicely summed up my reactions too, Olygal.
Oh wait, is astounded disbelief in your list? That guy from California who evidently still considers himself a Californian despite now living in Oregon–he’s classic. I’m not exactly sure classic what, but still, classic.
I’m not exactly sure classic what, but still, classic.
Hahahahaah!
He was quite fascinating to me. I wondered ‘Does he get b*tch-slapped by strangers each and every day? Because if not, what is wrong with the denizens of Salem?’
A wondrous creation of posturing and completely vapid triviality. Even the name ‘Chip’ was just right.
And seriously, what native Californian is going to be intimidated by Oregonians?
Yeah tell those supposedly “Native” Oregonians to shove off! Is there REALLY ANYONE native to the state?? My parents were born elsewhere but raised there; my dad in Medford (born in Santa Monica) and my mom in Burns (born in MN). My dad always said that Oregon was in a constant state of Depression and boy was he right. I have TONS of relatives there and well “Fruits & Nuts” ain’t just for California……
Damn, I had a busy day, so I’m just getting caught up with this thread. This is A W E S O M E.
‘It also makes California, in my book, a more competitive place, something we all need in terms of long-term economic growth.’
Isn’t this what some refer to as the “acceptance” stage of the cycle? Neil, call your office.
I shared a similar thought with a colleague in Bozeman recently. “Just think, falling house prices will solve the housing affordability problems the Bozeman City Council and university have been grappling with over the past 5 years.” Funny, though he was very active on the commission working to construct affordable housing, this guy wasn’t at all happy to see property values collapse in the valley.
Get a federal grant to subsidize housing for a dozen families = good.
Prices fall so that normal people can afford housing without a subsidy = disaster.
Did anyone post a link to the San Diego UT’s article stating that our housing prices are undervalued? My computer keeps crashing so I haven’t been able to copy the link, but it’s currently one of the “most popular” on the website homepage. The reader comments are pretty hilarious.
If not, here it is:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jun/04/1b4housing212856-housing-called-undervalued/
“The median price for a single-family home was $327,300 in the first quarter, the company said. Based on historic trends for household income, affordability and appreciation, the “normal” value should have been $415,300. “
what a pathetic excuse for analysis.
It saddens me that Bozeman and MT in general fell into the stupidity of the whole bubble.
You got it! Everyone’s drunk the Koolaid. The nonprofit affordable sustainable housing complex most of all.
Anyone remember that affordable housing non-profit guy in San Diego, helping poor families buy homes with gobs of state and federal assistance? I can’t remember his name, but we had quite an email exchange 1.5 years ago. I promised to email back in exactly one year to see who was right about the housing market. Set my outlook reminder and emailed him right on schedule last Nov.
Funny, no response.
Nice work!
Yay! A Vegas thread for Friday!
Hey all you HBB’ers, I love every cranky, small-hearted, curmudgeonly last one of ya’s!
Even the ones I disagree with on largely philosophical grounds.
You’ve taught me a lot.
Ben, as always, thanks for the venue.
Heck, I might even send you some money… Except that I’ve been taught to hoard my cash by the denizens of this here Blogazine.
Oh well.
Hey, I may be cranky and curmudgeonly but my heart is as big as all outdoors! Or at least a house.
but my heart is as big as all outdoors
Allow me to clarify.
I was referring to the size of heart we all have available for infestors, realtwhores, mortgage breakers, whiny FBs, banksters and puliticians.
NOT the size of heart available in general.
Send Ben some money. Keeping the blog going is well worth the price, esp. when you yourself can decide the price.
Yeah, employed people…send Ben some money!
Actually, I believe I lined up a month+ of contract work today, so I might actually become a productive, taxpaying citizen again. Woohoo!
Well, not exactly a Vegas thread…
but I meant what I said about ya’ll anyway.
And it wasn’t Captain Morgan Spiced Rum Coffee speaking,either.
Have a great weekend, all!
“…And it wasn’t Captain Morgan Spiced Rum Coffee speaking,either.”
lavi d….early once again!
Me too Ben….
I may not have the massive loot in 401k ira skf and cashola that others here have….(or even a decent job) But I do own 1/3 of my moms house, and I have learned a lot, and have adjusted my lifestyle to be even more frugal then i have been in the past.
only problem is that where were the realtors at the height of the boom ?
“But it has fast turned sour for some. ‘I thought it was a no-lose situation. It ruined me,’ said Ed Santacruz, a former mortgage broker and fortune seeker who let his Lake Las Vegas hotel-condominium go into foreclosure. He had planned to rent out the property to tourists, but couldn’t get enough takers to cover the mortgage. ‘That’s where I messed up, I believed enough in the product and in Las Vegas,’ Santacruz said.””
Why do people not only assume, but seem to think that they’re entitled to have their mortgage covered by someone else?
It ruined me,’ said Ed Santacruz
Correction: You ruined yourself, Mr. Ed. Go cry to Wilbur.
I thought this was crazy. It’s one thing to pay more than you would like because you are are pregnant and/or have kids and want to settle down or the parties at your apartment complex are driving you nuts, but for a self proclaimed “mortgage broker” to intentionally purchase a hotelcondo as an investment without running the numbers is mind blowing. If I was making such a decision I would definitely have all the costs nailed down, known average monthly rents for similar units, vacancy rates, competeting properties in the pipeline, etc. How in the hell could he help others pick the best product for them if he doesn’t understand the numbers game? No one would just squeeze someone into a crappy product just to get the deal closed and get a commission. These people were experts whose only goal was helping others achieve the American Dream. LOL.
Right you are. When I leased my apartment I first called the ultility company to make sure the cost was what what the landlady said. In DC you can call PEPCO and get utility cost for any property. Also checked the real estate records to make sure landlady owned the place and how seasoned she was. She bought about 15 years ago.
“I would have …known average rents for similar units”…
The Ritz Carlton next door, with its fakest of all fake Italian designs, has current rates of 129, the Trump 99, the Hilton 39, the Mirage 70. The condo hotel is the Montelago, and actually is holding up well re “average rent”. It’s actually also a nice place, well constructed building, with underground garage, good staff. Probably same HOA mess as elsewhere, with the number of walk aways.
Technically, that’s the point of buying rent producing properties. It’s always better to do it with cash, but if you’re borrowing money, you want the purchase price and rent flow to be such that somebody is indeed paying your mortgage.
It sounds as if Mr. Ed didn’t do his homework and/or vastly overestimated how many suckers would pay top dollar for his place.
I’ve seen plenty of these speculators or flippers who just assume that they’ll find someone to rent at a price which will cover their mortgage regardless of the price of comparable properties. Then they act as if they’ve been betrayed when it turns out that nobody wants to pay 150% of market rate just to keep his bank balance healthy.
You just described 90% of the accidental landlords in my town. A nice 3/2 rents for $1200/mo and you have yours listed for $2000/mo because that is what you need to pay the mortgage?
Oh yah, he was an idiot. He didn’t buy based on any fundamental value, but on the hype that prices would continue to skyrocket to infinity and beyond.
Craigslist is a hilarious example of the accidental landlords. There’s always somebody asking 150%+ of the going rate and if you talk to them they are moaning and griping about how they can’t even cover their mortgage at that price.
Eventually they will be foreclosed on. There’s no avoiding it really.
SFBB,
Ha! Way to make my Friday! Yeah, that’s what we’re going to call C/L from now on. “Accidental Landlords”.
Or A/L for short.
“fortune seeker”
THAT is where you messed up Ed. Somewhere along the line you gave up on working hard and thinking smart, and you decided to earn your way through life playing craps.
I follow MGM Signature sales. It’s a condo-hotel connected to the MGM and the strip. You can get in at 70% below peak now. I can not imagine who would buy into MGM’s City Center project given their track record for success. Once of the reasons I follow it is that it is a nice place to stay. I can usually rent a unit that sold for $500k or more at $90 a night. Assuming full occupancy that is about $2,700 a month. Assuming little down, that is below the cost of the mortgage, not to mention that the management company takes about 50% and I think the HOA is about $1k a month.
I thought the only sure things were death & taxes.
“Of all of the active mortgages in San Diego County, 7 percent are subprime, and 14 percent are Alt-A. Now analysts are trying to gauge the potential impact of defaults in that bigger Alt-A category — what has been called the next wave of potential foreclosures.”
How many of us predicted this? It was more than two years ago.
ONLY 14%? Only if you include people who bought in the late seventies through late nineties. I wonder what the percentage is for mortgages 1999 and newer?
Uh… never thought of it ‘that’ way before?
“How many of us predicted this?…”
Pretty much everybody who got a gander at the first Credit Suisse “Mortgage Rest Chart
The minute I saw the amount of Alt-A that Downey S&L and WAMU had originated I loaded up on long term Puts. Thanks HBBrs and Ben. Just sign me ,’reader since ‘05′.
“To her own disbelief, resident and real estate agent Lynne Hoffman has had her Lake Las Vegas home on the market for three years. She’s dropped the price to $488,000 — $40,000 less than she paid in 2001. She gets offers from potential buyers, she says, but they lowball her lowball price. ‘It’s insane! I’m like, what do you want people? You want this house for a penny? I have to pay the bank,’ she said.”
Lady, that would constitute “your problem”, not “my problem.” Lost Wages used to be known as a really cheap place to live, and I have a feeling those days are going to make a comeback.
No, I want it for what it is worth to me not your inflated value.
Perfectly said. This is another person who is going to learn that things can be worth less than you paid for it and that you can’t always get your money back.
Does that constitute an offer? I’ll take it for a penny.
“It’s insane! I’m like, what do you want people? You want this house for a penny?”
I love the all-or-nothing extremist attitudes expressed by creatures such as this. Because somebody won’t give this moron 48,800,000 pennies for her house, it must mean they will only give her 1 penny for house. She can rot in her only little slice of he!! for all I care.
Tonight I will be thanking the people around me for making the past year of my life a great year. This woman will be blaming the world for her problems. What happened to that bitter renter concept? I think the HBBers have destroyed that one.
Have a fabulous celebration.
I think us HBBers need to do some kind of flash-mob thing where we flood Ms. Hoffman with offers for her house, all under $1 of course.
Two bits!
I will double your bid and offer 2 cents.
How are those bank payments going with the house on the market unsold for the past 3 years?
That is the part I find most amusing. This ‘owner’ would rather chase the market down and pay the monthly ‘howmuchamonth’ than cut the losses.
“‘I have to pay the bank,’ she said.”
And what does that have to do with the current market price? I do like how the media is starting to point out that people who bought in 2001 are underwater! So much for real estate always going up.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
The mortgage amount has everything to do with the price - it determines the price below which it’s better to jingle mail than sell.
You may think she paid too much for her house, but in reality, the bank paid too much for her house.
It sounds like real estate agent Lynne Hoffman and her house having personal problems from her squeals.
Hang in there Lynne, you’re a hardcore RE Professional and it’s all gravy, even when it’s YOUR goose that’s gonna get Cooked.
It’s Real Estate baby and nothing can go wrong..nothing can go wrong..nothing can….
Bzzzzt! I hear the oven timer. And, judging from the aroma coming from the kitchen, it looks like Lynne’s goose is cooked.
Now, what sort of w(h)ine do we select for this meal?
Arizona Slim,
LOL! I’m thinking… more like brandy?
What’s interesting is that all the realtors and MB’s are now pointing to their one remaining alligator as their undoing?
Uh, guys, you made a turdpile of money for nearly a decade and managed to blow almost every last dime! ( But it’s this (1) last vestige of an underwater specuvestment that we’re to believe derailed your awesome “plan”? )
And of course again, everything within the context of the impact to ‘them’ while totally ignoring the scars they’ve left on everyone ‘else’. Perfect.
Same idea applies to the banks as well. They get caught with a few Mortgage-backed securities at the end of the game, and it’s “help me Uncle Sam.” But what about the vast bulk of MBS they sold off to other investors at a huge profit?
Uh, guys, you made a turdpile of money for nearly a decade and managed to blow almost every last dime!
I made a TP of money in RE too by paying off my house and then selling it at the peak of the bubble. Why weren’t these realtors smart enough to bank a good portion of their profits?
“Why weren’t these realtors smart enough ”
smart realtors haha thats a good one
The real culprits, [Mozilo] argued, were the Federal Reserve raising interest rates for too long
Oy veh, does that guy really believe this?
On the positive side, at least he did a good job designing Firefox.
Oh, TanMan, how you wiggle and squirm. No matter what you do you can’t get off THIS hook.
“Angelo Mozilo went from the charismatic helmsman of America’s top mortgage lender to the badly burned face of the nation’s housing meltdown.”
Now THAT right there is a real howler. Couldn’t have said it better myself, and I’m not even sure the writer phrased it that way on purpose. But a badly burned face is what you get when you spend too much time in the tanning bed and not enough time minding yer bidniz.
“if he hadn’t followed Roland Arnall down the subprime path this would never have happened. It’s ego and ambition that sunk him.’”
Yep, it’s like my parents used to say when I wuz a pup and would plead to do or get something like one of my friends. “If Johnny jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you?” Hell, yeah, probably. But I outgrew that. Looks like Mozilo never did.
Regarding the Mozilo and Las Vegas “blame game ” items, its great when all these culprits start pointing fingers at one another. Reminds me of criminals who all consider themselves “stand up guys,” and who all mouth the “Quit snitchin’” line. Those who snarl, “Quit snitchin’,” the loudest are invariably the ones most quickly to cut deals to testify against their cohorts in exchange for dismissed or reduced charges. They’re “stand up guys,” all right. Just ask them.
…at least he did a good job designing Firefox.
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk
I really love the moniker “Leatherface” for Mozilo. You know– the way it summons up that psycho-slasher in the butcher’s apron from “Chainsaw Massacre.” I like it so much I adopted it to describe on some Rate Realtors Websites an Atlantic City area realtor for whom I have it in. My guy’s even oilier than Mozilo, if you can believe that: year ’round, tanning bed tan offset by pure white hair waaayyy too long for the dude’s age. Fancies himself an original, genuine, gangsta’ surfer. Anyway, I digress. Do love the name “Leatherface,” though.
Aw, Dennis, Firefox works way too well for Angelo to have had a hand in it.
Right, wasn’t it GODzilla who designed Firefox ?
Yeah, that jump from 5% to 6% on 30 year mortgages was a real back-breaker.
at least he did a good job designing Firefox.
Took me a while to get that one. I was horribly confused for a few minutes…
“I didn’t know Oregonians hated Californians.’
That right there tells me you’re an utter idjit, Chipster.
“Proud of my move, I would freely tell everyone where I was from until the fact that I was not indigenous started hurting my ability to join the community. Bank tellers ignoring me, the D.M.V. skipping over my number, cops pulling me over for no reason, I quickly changed to Oregon plates and kept my mouth shut about my recent move…”
Let me mention that PNWers don’t hate ALL Californians, Chipster—just the ones like YOU.
And anyway, maybe it’s not ’cause you’re from California. Perhaps you’re just a serious w*eenie no matter where you are? Could that be? I mean, Chipster, lookit your hair! Your nostrils! An offense against God and Man! And that’s just a few of the external details!
…‘Now, I have learned to blend in. But it’s not like me to be quiet.
I’m a Californian and I’m okay with that. Can we call a truce? After all, you can’t keep Salem a secret forever. This is a great city.”
Aww, Jeebus….
Say, I’m working from home today…I could just drive down south a bit and kill this Chipster Conrad. Public service sort of thing. Hey!
I could lunch in Portland on the way back and look at the Rose test gardens, ooooh, I love those.
Californians are way worse than New Yorkers that were born and raised in Minnesota. Plus, Oregonians would love the cats.
What about Californians born and raised in New York? We have a lot of lotus eaters from elsewhere in this state. The natives know better.
“What about Californians born and raised in New York?”
Scumbags.
Actually, I like New Yorkers a lot. They’re very direct, which can actually be quite amusing in SoCal since we locals are flustered by people who mean what they say and say what they mean.
In my experience most of the thermonuclear idiots and jerks in California were raised somewhere else. But the eccentrics are mostly homegrown.
…most of the thermonuclear idiots and jerks in California were raised somewhere else.
I think, due to 40-some years of TV, we’re all sorta “Cali” now.
That’s a really good observation. The thing that shocked me most when I moved to LA from the East in the early 90’s was that while some TV programs purport to be about Los Angeles, in reality ALL tv programs are about Los Angeles. That is to say, the ones that present themselves as “anywhere, USA” are very recognizable as Californian once you live there.
If you watch the original CSI set in Las Vegas, most of the neighborhoods they depict are clearly in LA. They’re way too leafy and Craftsmen bungalowy on some episodes. One even was set in a Victorian. It’s pretty funny.
Thanks Salad, glad to know it wasn’t just my imagination.
My name is Chip Conrad. I have lived everywhere. Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Texas, and even Nevada. But this last move, in which I came to Salem, was from California.
So by his own admission he’s NOT a Californian at all. He’s what I call a “ricocet shot”: someone who moves one place and despoils it, then moves on to another place and despoils it, and so forth ad infinitum.
Wasn’t the word “gypsy” coined to describe this type of person?
I don’t think the gypsys would like this guy.
Gypsies are fun and bohemian and devil-may-care and dress like Keith Richards and throw good hootenannies. Or so I am told.
That guy just sounds like an a-hole who moves a lot.
That guy just sounds like an a-hole who moves a lot.
HAHAHAH!
Man, I been groping for something as good as that response alllllll afternoon.
Thank you.
I’m sure this guy thinks he fits into your euphemistic description. In fact, I think they all do..
““I didn’t know Oregonians hated Californians.’
That right there tells me you’re an utter idjit, Chipster.”
Yeah, I laughed myself silly when I read that. Seriously, who doesn’t know that?
I also laugh myself silly when Oregonians drive around San Diego with their DON’T TELL ME YOU’RE FROM CALIFORNIA I CAN TELL BY THE WAY YOU DRIVE bumper stickers.
During the High tourist season Nov-Apr here in the desert, lots of autos from Canada, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana and Illinois plates. The ones from the PNW and Idaho need driving lessons.
Is it not heaven now that they’re all gone. I hope they don’t buy a lot of houses, then all the OC transplants can go as well. Let’s talk about weather. 86 today!
The ones from the PNW and Idaho need driving lessons.
This cannot be me of which you speak. The reason I know this, is that I’d be a blur, were you to ever observe me. Therefore you could not have observed my license plate, and know who to complain about, Ms. Sassy.
I can usually spot the Oregon cars here in CA without looking at the plates — they’re the shabbiest, dirtiest and most rusted-out vehicles on the road.
I can usually spot the Oregon cars here in CA without looking at the plates — they’re the shabbiest, dirtiest and most rusted-out vehicles on the road.
Them simpletons! Don’t they know that they should be driving the biggest, newest, shiniest, gadgetest-laden, and gas-hoggingest vehicle they can’t afford? Why, that’s how we can spot who’s coolest and who is most impressive and superior! Now we’ll just never, ever know….
*shakes head sadly at those iggerant Oregonians and their foolish country ways *
You forgot to mention there are usually dirty hippies driving them.
The fact that we can stay up later than 10 p.m. improves the revenue of the restaurants downtown
Nothing like insulting the local people and being clueless about having done so.
DennisN,
I agree, and the man has more dense statements than you can shake a stick at. Still, ( as non-native Chicago-raised ) Oregonian, I oft find myself singing “Where’s the Party?” myself?
I attribute it to depression in the general pop. here.
“Though, I am sure people can still pick me out from my straight-leg jeans or the fact that I’m pushing 40 and still ride my skateboard to the store”
IMHO you’re not doing much of a job hiding the fact that you are an complete idiot Chip, although a 40 yr old man-child wannabe surfer cruising the skateboard, just might be a dead give away, even to the most sheltered and gentle folks of Oregon.
I suspect most of the scorn he’s getting is from being a ‘deadbeat’ whose new wife is supporting him while he smokes a few bowls.
Okay, I know I’m always defending California when we get slagged for things that you can find pretty much everywhere in the US. However, having endured the dating scene in SoCal I can say that our popular culture here does contribute to the infantilization of men. Actually expecting to go on a real “date” is considered an outrage, many guys want to just “hang out” with minimal effort (and grooming). Shoes would be nice. Thus, my husband is not from SoCal.
“our popular culture here does contribute to the infantilization of men.”
Your husband must not be from New York or New England, either. Or Washington (city) for that matter. And being from New York originally and later New England, I can say that. Goo-goo-gah-gah, want my momeee.
I am appalled at what I see around me. If the goal was turning men into the sorry specimens I see walking these streets then we really are messed up. There appears to be so little pride and it is true for both sexes. I keep telling my wife that we need to bring back charm school. I wish I had a nickel for every spoiled little princess I see wearing over-sized sunglasses, blabbing on a cell-phone and sporting a permanently pi$$y look on her face.
A few months ago, I gave one of those man-children a real dressing down. He was the organizer of a training program I’d signed up for.
It was a leadership training program, but, after five months in this program, we trainees still didn’t know what we were supposed to be doing. This was especially apparent during what I’ll refer to as the Valentine’s Day Fiasco.
The Fiasco was a big, public workshop, and oh, brother, was our poor training showing. I and the other trainees were clueless as to what we were supposed to do to lead the volunteers who’d shown up.
A short while after the Fiasco, the organizer called me to ask about my plans to participate in the next training exercise. And I lost it. Really dumped on the guy, in fact. He told me (in his very whine-y voice) that, in essence, my criticism was hurting his feelings.
And I said, “Well, sometimes you just have to man up and take.”
“No, I don’t,” said the little-boy voice on the other end of the phone.
Needless to say, that day marked the end of my participation in that training program.
You know, Slim, for $1595 or whatever similar price that guy was charging, based on your posts, I believe you could run a pretty good leadership training course yourself. Go for it.
I believe you could run a pretty good leadership training course yourself. Go for it.
Heckfire, I’m of the same opinion myself.
I offer a ‘Ditto’ on the ‘Go for it’.
Was relieved to be relocated to NYC after college in SD, men actually could hold a conversation With you.
Guys in SD (70s), “want to go to my apt NOW”. That was the range for guys in SD or , which beach to surf.
Sigh. Heck, in Florryduh, some people don’t even like folks from other parts of the state. Like in North Florida. They get a little prickly with folks from the Southern half of the state. Don’t get me wrong. They’ll take the cash, but they hate the flash.
I have to say, I did meet a Sandyaygo infestor who was busily running up prices in the Cape Coral area. Although outwardly low key, he sure wanted to let folks know he was from Cali and just wanted to rape Florida, not live here.
Nicely stated, there, mikey.
Anyway, ‘pushing 40′ my wee pink bum. I bet that’s the reason for the nostril photo-shot, grandly delimned by the background palm-tree. Because a regular face-on shot undominated by giant nostrils would have clearly revealed that 40 is lonnnng in the past for the limply-flowing-tressed skateboarding Hipster-Chipster.
Now, there’s nothing wrong with being immature and silly whatever age you are, to my mind. You may call me ‘Princess Immature and Silly’, since I wear tiaras to kayak and have tea-parties in the woods and frequently put my fingers in my ears and sing ‘la la la’ when I’m told to go to a hearing or meeting, but I do this for my own fun, and it is fun. Whereas Hipster-Chipster seems to be being immature and silly in a posturing, ‘look at me’ sort of way, coy protestations of ‘wanting to blend’ in aside.
He’s giving immature and silly people a bad rep, is what I mostly object to.
My thought is that you can be immature and foolish and yet not a totally annoying- in- every- single- freakin’- way dingle.
(Well. I hope so, anyway…
)
I could just drive down south a bit and kill this Chipster Conrad. [,,,]
I could lunch in Portland on the way back and look at the Rose test gardens, ooooh, I love those.
You’re scaring me.
In a fun kind of way.
Happy (non-homicidal) weekend to ya!
No wonder she didn’t come to Vegas. She must have active warrants out for her there.
I do not either! I’m almost sure of it!
Olygal, you and I are the only two sane people left in this world but sometimes, I really wonder about you.
Curiously enough, I think so, too… except I’ve been wondering about YOU.
Phew…That’s a real relief Oly and it cancels out any of my lingering doubts I have about you. Keep on trucking and creating cyber bedlam and myhem throughout the great PNW with my blessing.
**Do note that the key phrase up there was CYBER bedlam and myhem**
I could just drive down south a bit…
You know, if the Chipster does end up in a dumpster, let me know - he’s wife looks hot.
And, Oly, if you’re in the mood for a road trip, come down here. Plenty of Chipsters here in Tucson.
Careful what you wish for Slim. She could show up drinking Pina Coladas and trailering a large device with bumperstickers saying “Wood Chipper for Chipsters” and “I Loved Fargo”
“I Loved Fargo”
I DID love Fargo. And, curiously enough, I happen to have a giant bear-skin cap with large ear-flaps! (I’ve mentioned it before, it sits on my head like a perky wombat, hahaha, remember that, mikey?)
So I’m already partly set up for the Fargo gear I’d need…
I’m closing exit ramps 55 and 52 on Interstate 5 right now…..
lol
Now you’re the one that’s playing it safe…huh Rancher.
I’m closing exit ramps 55 and 52 on Interstate 5 right now…..
But then I’d have nowhere for me’n my bear-skin cap to go when we got hungry!
…Oh, wait. Except over to somebody’s homestead, where they have a fridge packed full of rib-eye steaks….
* studiously makes a note of this on a post-it, so I won’t forget *
…and moving into a community “in lieu” of cheaper housing? What in hell is that supposed to mean? SIC!
…“in lieu” of cheaper housing?
It means he was going to stay in the bathroom.
I think it actually meant “in search of cheaper housing,” but he thought a French word would sound good even if he didn’t know what it meant.
“……This is a great city.”
It was, until all you Californians jackholes ruined it.
Why do you suck? Let me count the ways…….
- Exported the housing bubble to the lower 48, by bidding up local home and land prices, because it was a “bargain” compared to Cali.
-Forever bi#ching about how the locals do things.
-Forever bi#ching about how “boring” it is around here, but moving here with your snotty little brats because you want to raise them in a “healthy” environment.
-Forever driving up costs and regulations in flyover country, because it would be “inefficient” to have one set of regs for Cali,and one set of regs for flyover country……so we all get to deal with Cali-inspired regs, whether it is applicable to our local situation or not.
-Forever bi#ching about the local cuisine
(the rest of the country doesn’t get inflated NYC and Cali salaries……I’m betting the local food would get a lot better if everyone could afford to blow $20 bucks on lunch. NO sushi is better than BAD sushi).
-Never recognizing that Ground Zero of both the Tech and housing bubbles was Cali, and that your fortune was due more to luck and circumstance; instead, we get a steady diet of how much “smarter”, “sophisticated”, “unique”, and “progressive” everyone/everything in Cali is.
-Has it ever occured to you that the reason the sidewalks get rolled up at 7:00pm, is that the rest of us have REAL JOBS, with start times between 6-8 a.m.? All those “employee friendly” policies like flex-time never managed to drift in from the coasts……I always found it funny the “flex schedules” and other employee friendly policies are never available to anyone deemed to be “essential to operations”.
-I could go on…….how much time do you have?
Hey, where I live is far from perfect, but nobody says it is. Why don’t the Cali people stay in Cali and fix their own problems, instead of exporting them to our quiet little locale?
Why don’t the Cali people stay in Cali…
The first time I heard California referred to as “Cali” was about three years ago. It was from my 20-something realtor neighbor in my new neighborhood in Las Vegas. When I told him that I had been reading about how the housing bubble was about to blow, he countered by telling me that he had just bought a condo in “Cally”.
I wished him luck.
“Cali” is a very recent neologism. The only time I heard it before was in A Clockwork Orange, where it was adopted from Russian slang and meant “shitty”.
Saying “Cali” pegs you as a recent lazy transplant from points east of California. It’s as much of a faux pas to the locals as calling San Franciso “Frisco”.
It’s true, the only person I can think of who ever said “Frisco” in a conversation with me is someone who thinks Washington DC is “out west.”
Ugh. “Frisco” is the worst. None of us say “Cali” either. Of course, we do call tourists from Arizona “Zonies” so I guess what goes around comes around.
Hah! When I lived out there, I used to say “Fricso” in conversation all the time. I’d get corrected on it, and then try to incorporate the word into my next sentence.
X-GSFixer,
Don’t stop on MY account! Please, feel free…
Absolutely, you’ve nailed it. I think one of the things that’s utterly ruined Salem, OR ( and I live about 11 miles from city center ) is CA’s unfathomable acceptance of violence.
Their contribution to the tipping point of being non-chalant about gang-violence as “just a fact of life” only encourages more. Most of the long term latino families w/ roots in OR are pretty aghast at their shoulder shrugging when some young kid gets executed gangland-style by calmly asking WHERE the shooting took place!?
Oh… I see! That makes ALL the difference. Great, I get it, didn’t happen in ‘your’ neighborhood so “it’s all good”.
Hey, where I live is far from perfect, but nobody says it is. Why don’t the Cali people stay in Cali and fix their own problems, instead of exporting them to our quiet little locale?
Because we export the loosers just to annoy our neighbors.
Would it help if a Californian complained about Cali?
#1 The schools are in a death spiral for multiple reasons. From #4 in the nation to four from the bottom. ugh. We have to give literacy tests to see if non-college degreed potential employees can do the three R’s at an 8th grade level (forget high school level…).
Seriously, the US population is mobile. Accept that. Most of my coworkers were raised outside of California yet chose to work here. Most Californians, including myself, work out of the state for at least part of their career (5 years for yours truly). The same is true of most New Yorkers, etc. I personally can not thrive in a small town. Been there… done that… moved back toward large cities. To each there own.
Oh, I’ve been essential to opperations. My flex time was the ability to start my shift early and work 14+ hour days.
In California… Its the ‘artist set’ who have the flex time that is truly flexible.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Californians jackholes
That made me laugh.
X-GS, just calm down and smile now that Calif has to admit to being Flat Broke.
One reason the people in Oregon bitch about Californians. Cals had the habbit of bidding up housing prices. The assessors would reassess the whole neighborhood. Higher taxes on your new neighbors. Oregonians had a chance but screwed that up too with ’son of Prop 13′ . It passed but the increase is 4% or some such.
When you’re coming back through Portland, let me know and I’ll buy you lunch and a beer.
Oooh!
*makes a studious note of this on a post-it, so I won’t forget *
My California experience was no where near what’s portrayed on TV. Raised in a Northern CA logging and fishing town.
It was my job to split the wood to heat the house (splitting mall, wedge, and axe only….no power splitter). If we wanted meat we shot a deer or fished.
Taught me a good work ethic among other things. And how to run and sharpen a chain saw.
Men I knew as a kid were tough hard working, hard drinking, no nonsense, do it yourself guys. Not some Chip on an over sized skate board.
All the fools that see the CA dream on TV come here from other places in an attempt to recreate it. It’s a form of art imitating life.
No doubt Chip’s wife was one of them. Pretty face Oregon girl goes to California for an adventure and to live the “life”.
meant to say a form of life imitating art.
not the other way around.
I’m a native Californian who lived in Oregon for several months in 2006. Drove a truck with CA plates. I was treated just fine– in fact I found Oregonians more friendly and helpful than most people in L.A. or S.F. But then, when I’m in a new place, I respect local customs and try to blend in.
But I can picture people in Oregon not taking to a posturing, self-righteous, loud-mouthed, wearing-your-politics-on-your-sleeve, skateboard-riding-at-40 fool.
My co-worker that semi-retired to Vegas in 2005 is supposed to be he visiting in a few weeks. I doubt I will ask her about Vegas real estate but I will be oh so tempted. The last I heard she was saying that her house was worth $60,000 less than she paid for it. I bet that is over $100,000 by now. That’s a nice retirement present.
I doubt I will ask her about Vegas real estate…
But I thought you had recently decided to be more honest? What happened to that very noble vow, NYCityboy? Has increased age mellowed yoooooo…?
Okay, sorry. That was a blatant attempt to provoke one of the deeply enjoyable and patented NYCityboy fulminations.
It was wrong of me. I’m sorry.
Sort of.
Way to crap on my birthday. Thanks a lot.
I didn’t know her well enough. She worked in another area. The one time I spoke to her in 2005, she told me about how much more her house was worth. She hadn’t moved out there yet. She was bragging that it was worth $40,000 more than she paid for it.
I told her to be careful. I said, “booms never last”. “Oh, it’s different there”, she spewed in her wicked Yankee accent. I rolled my eyes and walked away. I figured they would just love her Yankee brilliance out there in Nevada, where she could tell them why Westchester was so much better than the desert.
She won’t come over to my area for more than a hello, when she visits. Don’t worry. If she says something silly I will hammer her and then send her on her way. I won’t let you down.
I accept your apology. And I will seal my acceptance with Jack Daniels in less than one hour.
I have a friend who moved to Vegas four years ago, bought a house, then saw another house he liked better, went ahead and bought it (2.5 years ago?) before selling the first one…and this guy was actually a math teacher before he retired. WTF?? …I needn’t tell you, the first house isn’t sold yet, but he did finally find a tenant.
“‘Multiple offers are common in the under $400,000 range when the home is priced well, shows nicely and is marketed professionally,’ she said in a listing service news release. ‘Buyers who are waiting for prices to come down more have missed the bottom.’”
I guess if a managing broker at a Real Estate company said this, it must be true.
‘Buyers who are waiting for prices to come down more have missed the bottom.’
This is another reason why I love my life. Unlike many on this blog I don’t plan to ever buy again. I don’t care what the situation is. I know that buying allows so much stability, blah blah blah.
I have seen enough of the real estate game and I want no part of it. I don’t want to give a commission to any “REALTOR”. I don’t want to buy and lose my freedom (yes, I know it can be different if you have kids). I don’t want to buy and find out I have neighbors like Arizona Slim’s. I did that once. The first place I bought. I found out that my new neighbors were complete WT. In a rental you just wait for one lease to complete and get out or you tell the landlord to deal with it. I don’t want to have a house to sell again, keeping it clean for showings and dealing with REALTORS.
I love telling my co-workers that own that I will never buy again. It really rubs them wrong. The game can go on without me. Plus, the bust has made so many more rental options available and I don’t see that changing any time soon. So, none of these smarty-pants REICsters have to worry about me missing the bottom. I don’t really care. And that is what will really drive them nuts.
+1000
One of the unanticipated benefits of being single again, is that I found how much more time, money, and flexibility in my schedule I had, when I wasn’t feeding the house with my time and money.
It would be nice to have a house with a big garage/shop (to have a place to work on the toys). But it’s sort of like any other high-dollar pursuit……the house/hobby can end up owning YOU, if you are not careful.
You’re thinking independently, NYCityBoy, kudos. I would never say “never,” (flexible is good) but buying a house is certainly completely optional. We should not assume it is some certain measure of adulthood, or social-economic class , or financial security.
Have you seen:
Do We Really Need to Own Our Homes?
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20090528_buchanan.html
Buyers who are waiting for the dead cat to bounce of a cliff will be rewarded.
He’s RIGHT
210K 234K 256K191K 144K….yup nothing close to his pie in the sky price
——————————————–
‘Multiple offers are common in the under $400,000
That USAToday story about the issues of older people has so many wrong things in it that I don’t even know where to start.
Semi-retired at age 77? Still with a mortgage on his home? Makes $4K a month - that’s $48,000 a year. IIRC that’s above the average household income for all working Americans. He’s helping his son who’s struggling? Good heavens his son must be in his 50’s by now. He’s receiving “disability” payments AND is working at a job? Isn’t that criminal fraud?
Haven’t you heard, fraud is a victimless crime? I think they meant to write that this guy is semi-retarded, not semi-retired.
No semi’s needed.
Don’t get me started about when oldsters complain about living on “fixed incomes” which happen to be three times what our family lives on…. Just because it’s “fixed” doesn’t automatically mean that it’s not a lot of money.
The numbers in that article are truly frightening. The fact that so many people over 60 have mortgages and that they owe so much is just scary. I was amongst many old people recently (yes, old). Their attitudes towards this mess, for the most part, are highly disappointing. CNBC has clearly gotten to “The Greatest Generation”.
The reason to “invest” (i.e. buy) a house is to pay it off, and live rent-free except for taxes and maintenance, which will both be very low if you’ve chosen well. This whole concept seems to have been lost to all but a small minority.
Well of course. The oldsters got to watch Tom Brokaw tell them how great they are on NBC and then CNBC could tell them they deserved a luxury retirement and here’s how to get it. And they were retired so they had the time to watch the financial channels and talk to their financial advisors. Very clever cross promotion!
“Don’t get me started about when oldsters complain about living on “fixed incomes”
Oh, Salad, you just fixed on one of my pettest of peeves. “I’m on a fixed income”, spoken in a crotchety old whine, like that entitles them to be feeble old jerks. It’s a common sales objection here in Florryduh. I’ve formulated the perfect reply to that. I get all awed and bug-eyed. I say “Wow, that’s fantastic! You are SOOO lucky! I wish I had a fixed income! Mine fluctuates and I just can’t depend on it. Now buy this and help out those who are less fortunate, but are providing you with a piece of that fixed income.” Or some such thing. Not that it works, they usually just shuffle off all slack-jawed and offended, but they weren’t gonna buy anyway. One guy did laugh, though and made a purchase.
When an oldster reminds me that s/he is on a “fixed” income, I always remind them that they get a raise every year from SS, and many of us who still work for a living not only do not get raises, we have had our pay permanently reduced. That too leaves them slack jawed and horrified.
I think the “fixed income” thing comes from a time when most middle class folks were paid by the hour. Need some extra cash this month? Tell the foreman that you would like some overtime.
We should be so lucky. When I was laid off in 2001 I shared my situation with an oldster. “How long until they call you back?” he asked. “Never”, I replied. “If I ever wish to work there again I will have to apply for a job like any outsider”. The look in his eyes said it all: horror.
That’s funny. Oldsters are often like teenagers, they like to press the limits and see who busts them on it. My mom clued me in on the “fixed income” hustle years ago, since she worked as a hairdresser for a lot of loaded old ladies.
You can make up to $1200/mo on SSD, IMO. That number is way out of date so it might even be higher now. I know someone who gets by pretty comfortably on SSD and part time work.
All for an ancient diagnosis of dyslexia, but really for being just totally out of the real world job market so long he’d have to start at the very bottom and ain’t about to.
“…..part time work.”
My dad used to drive a parts truck part time for O’Reillys. They have a sticker with an 800 number on the back of the truck, to report dangerous/reckless driving.
He came home pi$$ed one day…….someone called the 800 number; narc’d him out for driving too SLOW, and blocking traffic.
He didn’t find it nearly as funny as I did.
sorry meant to say IIRC not IMO
Seriously? You know someone on disability for being dyslexic ??? !!!
I take back what I said upthread about my having a heart as big as a house. Grumble grumble grumble grumble
“In two years, Angelo Mozilo went from the charismatic
helmsmanhenchman…”Angelo Mozilo
I prefer ‘Tangelo Mozilo’.
Or ‘Orange Julius’.
West Palm Beach Update:
http://tinyurl.com/kppzaq
This is good reading, I love this realtor quote the best. “Realtors say sellers are finally getting realistic about prices while banks are slashing prices to get rid of their foreclosed homes.
“They’ve seen the light,” said Debbie Maass of The Keyes Company in Boynton Beach.”
ROFLMAO, realtors saying sellers are getting realistic.
ROFLMAO, realtors saying sellers are getting realistic.
I used to live in Palm Beach County. Those sellers are about to get schooled. The overbuilding is… too much.
No Schadenfreude here. It will make Las Vegas look pretty. Yes, the sellers do need to get realistic, but it will continue to get ugly in Palm Beach. There is a need to bulldoze 10% of the housing to stabilize the market there.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Let’s just have F 6 Hurricane. That will reduce the inventory.
“They’ve seen the light,” said Debbie Maass of The Keyes Company in Boynton Beach
Yeah…and hopefully, the “LIGHT”, is the runaway 9:18 pm double-header southbound freight hauling a heavy load and headed straight for their A$$ at 8 notches with a tailwind.
Well, I read the brief article about ( by ) Chip. I guess it was quoted in full on the HBB. All I can say is, she’ll ditch him in 2 more years after she gets tired of supporting his shiftless butt, and, “Whoa, dude, get a better floppy-looking haircut. You are in major need of a shaping on those gnarly locks there….good thing you trimmed up your nosehairs before the pix.” He’s not even good-looking in a 40ish boyish way. Ewww.
Maybe Oly could cut his hair after she’s had a few
Minus those dank and meager tresses he would be less annoying, it is true.
…Alas, I fear I would slip and accidentally remove that whole bulbous “head” thingie were I to somehow get near Hipster-Chipster with anything sharp. Of course, I would apologize, but still.
I was at a newfound friend’s place late last night (you meet some interesting characters when you set out to meet anyone and everyone..this is one of the better ones)
both she and her roommate had had considerably more than a few, but for some reason they decided she should cut her roomie’s hair.
I just watched and cringed, and dodged the pointy end of the scissors as they got wildly swung around the room. I’m curious to know what the roomie thought of the hair cut when he woke up in the morning!
(honestly, i can’t say that it was a poor hair cut..but I certainly am not willing to take that risk)
Ha ha. You posted now in the original story’s comments. But you left off the “Ewww.”
“If I could sell this house, I would, but I won’t get as much as I want because of the value of the house,’
What a great statement - and it means nothing , too - good luck Ma’am -
This is an unfair generalization of upstaters, but this lady sounds dumb like my buds that stayed behind and have never seen anything but upstate. They just can’t conceptualize any of this. I’ve seen the same thing in Middle Tennessee; it’s the center of the universe.
Paradoxically, I haven’t met many Floridians like this.
Q: Is it true houses are selling more than ever now as the recovery is under way?
NAR: Yes it is all true!!! With a couple minor differences: They are not sold but foreclosed, and the recovery is not underway but rather we are entering a depression.
(With respect to Radio Yerevan jokes from the old USSR)
A nice shot of schadenfreude to close this week:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/04/sotu.foreclosures/index.html
Whoops! I just posted a link to something Ben already posted. DOH!
That’s okay, Muggy. Just double the fun, is all.
Curiously though, don’t you think Neal Williams (the FB in the picture) is Ben’s problem-drinking, over-eating, evil twin?
Hey. That guy doesn’t even look like me. Besides, like Tom Waits said, (something like) the only drinking problem I have is when I can’t get a drink!
My point was, this is what you would look like if you were a problem drinker!
I know this is a very basic question - but honestly I’ve googled myself silly and I don’t believe anything I’ve read (all written by realtards).
I want to know flat out: when will the market stop dropping like a lead balloon? I know there are still all the Alt-A’s out there ready to add the 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) wave of foreclosures. So that in mind, the fragile economy, dollar devaluation, pending hyper-inflation, etc. - does anyone have any idea how much longer we should hold out to buy? I know we haven’t hit bottom (despite the cries of the real estate community) but how far away are we? 5 years? More?
We are renting, but we also have 4 small children and I don’t want to keep moving forever. My husband and I would like to eventually buy something and put down roots for them. Very parochial to some, I realize. But we have a 7 y.o. child on the autistic spectrum and moving every year is not good for him. He goes through protracted periods of regression when we do.
So I’ll put the violins away, just was hoping somebody had a glimmer of hope that this tanking was going to stop before my youngest (3) was in college.
Thank you HBB’rs.
(P.S. We’re in Miami in case my name didn’t give it away).
In my State the last housing crash lasted at least 6 years 1990-1996. Back then we still had lending standards.
This time, we’re toast just like Florida. Unfortunately, you and I live in states that are leading the charge.
It’s hard to say, and individually it depends on your personal circumstances and where you are. Probably 2-3 years before it won’t really matter that much.
The other answer is - about 3-5 years after they the ban the securitization of loans (mortgage backed securities).
florida is the foreclosure capital of the nation, there is one more wave coming and it is option arms and is as big as the first which we should be near the end. option arms go into 2011…so too long for me to wait. I bought in phoenix, another foreclosure capital, buyers are coming out in droves and when i was looking there were many people i ran into looking to buy for their kids or relatives or whatever. i have not seen many in my area in the last 2 months, and hope for more so i can buy another for a rental. i have been in my house for a week-owned it one month now, cash deal and good neighbors so far! low crime area too. all for 82k cash! i could have waited but for under 100k why! i decided to redue the inside so i have removed the saltillo tile and removed the popcorn. i will retexture soon and paint, then wood floors and carpet. and, the 8k tax credit will cover it all! i’m doing everything except the carpet install. love being in my first house!