June 14, 2009

Bits Bucket For June 14, 2009

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Comment by wmbz
2009-06-14 04:54:06

Deep in Debt, Six Flags Is Bankrupt…
By MICHAEL J. de la MERCED
Published: June 13, 2009

Six Flags, the theme park operator, filed for bankruptcy early Saturday in Delaware after failing to reach an agreement with lenders to reorganize its debt.

Six Flags is the latest company to prove unable to cope with its debt load at a time when previous solutions like refinancing are largely unavailable. The theme park operator, which had $2.4 billion in debt, faced nearly $300 million in payments to preferred stockholders due in August.

In a statement, Six Flags said it was seeking court approval for a restructuring plan it had already negotiated, which has the unanimous approval of its lenders. That proposal would eliminate $1.8 billion in debt and slice off the $300 million in preferred stock payments.

“The current management team inherited a $2.4 billion debt load that cannot be sustained, particularly in these challenging financial markets,” Mark Shapiro, the chief executive of Six Flags, said in a statement.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-06-14 05:00:35

More jobs getting axed, heading south of the boarder and abroad. Our current unemployment rate in S.C. is said to be 11.5%

Saturday, Jun. 13, 2009
400 workers to lose jobs at SC headlight maker
The Associated Press

YORK, S.C. — A company that makes headlights for vehicles is closing its York County plant next year, leaving about 400 workers without jobs.

Hella Lighting Corp. officials told The Herald of Rock Hill that it will shift all its U.S. manufacturing to Mexico and Eastern Europe, closing the South Carolina plant next May.

The company blames the downturn in the economy and auto sales. Last year, the plant had 682 employees, while now Hella has 387 workers.

Hella nearly doubled the size of its York plant three years ago with a $13 million expansion.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-06-14 05:09:51

Fire up the bulldozers…
AP June, 12

US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive
Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic “shrink to survive” proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.

The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.

Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.

The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.

Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.

Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.

Most are former industrial cities in the “rust belt” of America’s Mid-West and North East. They include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.

In Detroit, shattered by the woes of the US car industry, there are already plans to split it into a collection of small urban centres separated from each other by countryside.

“The real question is not whether these cities shrink – we’re all shrinking – but whether we let it happen in a destructive or sustainable way,” said Mr Kildee. “Decline is a fact of life in Flint. Resisting it is like resisting gravity.”

Karina Pallagst, director of the Shrinking Cities in a Global Perspective programme at the University of California, Berkeley, said there was “both a cultural and political taboo” about admitting decline in America.

“Places like Flint have hit rock bottom. They’re at the point where it’s better to start knocking a lot of buildings down,” she said.

Flint, sixty miles north of Detroit, was the original home of General Motors. The car giant once employed 79,000 local people but that figure has shrunk to around 8,000.

Unemployment is now approaching 20 per cent and the total population has almost halved to 110,000.

Comment by combotechie
2009-06-14 05:19:15

“In order to save Hue we had to destroy it.”
- Air Force pilot during 1968 Tet offensive in vietnam.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-14 05:45:26

‘Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic “shrink to survive” proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.’

I thought posters here were joking about solving the housing surplus problem by bulldozing them, but I guess not…

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 05:53:46

It would be an opportunity for urban planners to do the right thing and establish green belts, which tend to raise the value of adjacent neighborhoods anyway.

There are probably a lot of toxins around some of the old foundations though - buried motor oil from people changing their cars’ oil for example. Dig ‘em up and replace with healthy sod that’s indigenous to the area and let nature return to reclaim.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 08:02:15

Europeans value green space around towns and villages - US “urban planners,” who with few exceptions are totally in the pockets of developers, do not. I’d love to see more land returned to a fallow state, but doubt that it’s going to happen.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-06-14 09:36:53

Europeans value green space around towns and villages - US “urban planners,” who with few exceptions are totally in the pockets of developers, do not.

Most US urban planners most certainly do value green space, and regularly try to have more open space included in both high density and low density environments; it is the developers who don’t value the green space, and the legislators and council officials that are bought off. The planners are often not high enough up the political food chain to implement their concepts, or are simply ignored altogether. Important distinction.

In places where we do see well-thought out green space, one or more of the following typically apply: A.) the green space is a legacy from a different era (the Burnham Plan in Chicago, for example); B.) the municipal government makes smart planning a real priority; C.) the local community is politically motivated to preserve or expand green spaces; or D.) socio-economic events allow for re-thinking of development-oriented policies and re-use of once developed spaces (many parts of the Rust Belt, for example).

 
Comment by InMontana
2009-06-14 10:23:33

Someone’s got to take care of it or the noxious weeds take over. We’ve got county-owned open space here that is overrun with knapweed and worse. The best caretaker was ol’ farmer Brown, who at least kept it in hay and irrigated it.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-14 12:18:26

The best caretaker was ol’ farmer Brown, who at least kept it in hay and irrigated it.

Yar. Until he sold it out to developers, that is. At least half the ‘farmers’ I meet are wanna-be developers. They loudly demand to be exempt from any and all regulations regarding water quality on the grounds that they ain’t nuthin’ but a hard-workin’ local boy just trying to make a decent living on the land that good ol’ grampaw homesteaded, and all that guvmint rules and stuff is un’Merikan, unrighteous, and unduly burdensome as well…
then they try to sell all their precious homestead for a pickup truck load of money.
I’m very, very happy to report that such plans are not working out so good lately around here.

(Now, the REAL farmers, understand, are the salt of the earth and there’s no better folks to be found. But wearing overalls and boots and grumbling about your knees doesn’t make you a ‘real’ farmer.)

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-06-14 12:26:55

“At least half the ‘farmers’ I meet are wanna-be developers…then they try to sell all their precious homestead for a pickup truck load of money.”

Exactly. Greedy SOB’s. Most longtime landowners I’ve met are this way. They think they’re sitting on gold. When you ask them how somebody’s supposed to turn a profit, much less farm the land, at the price they’re trying to sell for, their eyes are all glazed over and they’re at a loss for words.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 08:09:49

a lot of toxins ??

Considering the age of Flint and many other small rust belt towns in demolition the biggest single toxic issue will likely be Asbestos…It was used many building materials to one degree or another prior to 1973…At least here, removal of ALL asbestos in a contained manner is required prior to demolition…Lead based paint could be another problem…

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 08:35:11

No problem. Obama’s Youth Corps could be mobilized and paid to lean on their shovels all day long, while politically well-connected contractors use illegal aliens to do the actual work that gets done, a la the rebuilding of New Orleans. Then the Obama Youth, once they’re duly registered as Democrats, could go to any number of law firms that also happen to be major contributors to the Democratic Party, and fill class-action lawsuits claiming they were exposed to asbestos and other toxic materials during the period they were “working” as part of the gub’mint program to “right size” the cities. Of course they would get a huge taxpayer-funded settlements giving them lifetime health care and disability payments in a quid pro quo for their lifetime Democratic vote. So you see, no problem, unless you’re one of the dwindling number of productive citizens who gets to pick up the tab for this socialist utopia.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-06-14 09:39:54

No problem. Obama’s Youth Corps could be mobilized and paid to lean on their shovels all day long, while politically well-connected contractors use illegal aliens to do the actual work that gets done, a la the rebuilding of New Orleans.

+1

Nice to see the Obama youth being pre-emptively accused of following the Republican model from both New Orleans AND Iraq.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-14 09:42:36

Sammy:

Don’t get me started on New Orleans. Contractors had NO CHOICE but to hire Illegals since the locals refused to work. Where was Jesse and Sharpton and a Katrina Jobs March?

They knew none of the locals in the 9th ward would show up.

—————————————————-
a la the rebuilding of New Orleans.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 10:47:57

aNYCdj,

A friend of mine who owns his own HAZMAT remediation company made the mistake of going down to New Orleans to bid on some of the post-Katrina cleanup work. He’s a stand-up guy who takes his work seriously and does things by the book. He came back disgusted - said a lot of cowboy operators who were greasing the right palms got all the HAZMAT cleanup contracts, and were hiring unqualified and improperly supervised illegals to do the actual work - as you said, the locals would rather sit in a FEMA trailor collecting a government check than get their hands dirty with honest work. So there’s still a lot of toxic gumbo left in supposedly “cleaned” sites.

Today’s Republicans are every bit as corrupt and on the take as the Democrats. Anyone who supports either party, rather than the few honest and capable politicians in either one, is a fool who is helping to perpetuate the status quo.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 13:32:49

While what happened to New Orleans from hurricane Katrina was a shame and a travesty, having been there, all I can say is it couldn’t have happened to a more deserving bunch.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-14 14:35:14

Thanks Sammy………Hopefully it will be a very long time before any low income projects get built in the 9th ward…maybe never….it is the lowest part of the city.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 15:00:35

Amen to that. A lowlife population elected corrupt and incompetent “leaders,” with both failing to make the most elementary preparations for a hurricane or flooding despite numerous warnings and the fact that much of the city was 12 feet below sea level, protected only by poorly built and maintained levees.

What ensued was pure Darwinism, compounded by the epic incompetence and complacency of FEMA, the Department of Homeland Security, and the Bush Administration.

As I’ve said many times, people get the kind of government they deserve.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 16:23:25

As I’ve said many times, people get the kind of government they deserve.

“A people”? Sure. Each individual person? I disagree. I’m sure there are many who voted for different leaders, sought more sound decisions, etc. I think that’s the danger of statements like that…

Yes, we have a representative government. But while the general populace may be represented, I sure as hell am not.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 08:15:56

The city folk up here aren’t the only ones digging and replacing:

http://www.wwmt.com/articles/roads-1363526-mich-counties.html

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 09:25:11

Wow! Turning roads back to gravel! Reminds me of the gravel roads in many areas of the central California Sierra Nevada foothills (west slope) back in the 1960s.

Green shoots (LOL) would appear here and there in spots where the road was not maintained.

In those days the U.S. had a population between 160 million and 180 million. California was around 15 million.

Here I’m being wistful, typing this from the third floor 1 bedroom apartment in LA in a noisy high traffic area. But I love it here - four and a half more months and I will probably be back in Baltimore (brrr!!!).

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 10:41:52

Some of the Idaho legislators are discussing letting some rural paved highways revert to gravel roads in order to cut costs.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-06-14 11:08:53

“Broken down shacks engine parts
Could tell a lie but my heart would know
Listen to the dogs barkin’ in the yard
Car wheels on a gravel road”

 
 
Comment by wolfgirl
2009-06-14 09:52:46

There’s a large former plant site where I live than may never be used again. The company made car batteries, so there’s leadin the soil.

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-14 10:56:29

Here in California, golf courses are considered green space. So, if a developer is required to include a green belt within his/her new subdivision it makes sense to put in greens and a club house. That way you can make some money on fees and reserve that green area for a very few elite. It always makes me think of Michael Douglas in the movie “Falling Down.”

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-06-14 11:59:27

“Here in California, golf courses are considered green space.”

That’s like considering french fries your daily vegetable.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 13:06:26

Silly bear. Everyone knows it’s the ketchup that’s the vegetable.

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-06-14 06:03:45

The Kildee plan sort of begs the question of where the people in the blighted housing should go. Home to Mexico? Is there any American industry that can employ the excess population? I get it that Flint already lost the population and needs to be torn down, but the larger cities mentioned are still pretty crowded with people whose declining employment opportunities won’t be solved by trucking the folks to North Carolina.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-06-14 06:44:48

Entire neighborhoods of Detroit only have a few occupied houses, with vacant lots or other abandoned homes in between. Evidently there is some kind of move afoot to move these people out, bulldoze the houses, and get rid of the very streets, so the city doesn’t have to maintain them, plow them, provide water and sewer and lighting to the areas. Our financial advisor’s firm is going to be one of the first investors in the new farming scheme. Not sure what they’re going to be farming there.

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Comment by oxide
2009-06-14 07:16:31

Do you have a link? I’d be interested in reading more on this. Thanks. :-)

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 07:52:32

“Our financial advisor’s firm is going to be one of the first investors in the new farming scheme.”

That statement really bothers me.

 
Comment by Tim
2009-06-14 08:42:40

I was trying to figure out why there was so much support and then it was mentioned the investors were already lined up. I get it now.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 08:47:11

“I was trying to figure out why there was so much support and then it was mentioned the investors were already lined up. I get it now.”

I’m tired of waiting… Let’s just go feudal again so I can Braveheart and get it over with.

 
Comment by Asparagus
2009-06-14 08:50:01

With California running dry, farming in Michigan might not be a bad bet.

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-06-14 09:01:59

Farming what? WEED of course!

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 08:10:34

The California legislature is making noises about ending welfare in the state. Don’t see that happening - social parasites form the core constituency and voting bloc of the Democratic party in CA - but if at some point fiscal reality imposes itself, where are all those welfare recipients going to go? Minnesota, and other liberal states that still offer generous welfare benefits? It’ll be interesting to see how all the blue state do-gooders react to seeing busloads of CA welfare castoffs rolling into their states and demanding every entitlement that they’ve been inculcated by the Nanny State into thinking is their birthright.

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Comment by Kim
2009-06-14 09:58:40

if at some point fiscal reality imposes itself, where are all those welfare recipients going to go? Minnesota, and other liberal states that still offer generous welfare benefits?

Minnesota isn’t out of the realm of possibility. However, I think you’re giving those folks a lot of credit if you think the majority will make it that far - or will tolerate the colder climate. Look out Nevada and Arizona…

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 10:51:18

The Somalis, who come from one of the hottest climates on the planet, settled in Minnesota en masse once word got out of the generous welfare & social services benefits they could expect. Ditto for the Hmongs from Laos and God knows how many welfare recipients from the southern States. So no, the cold alone won’t be enough to keep out the riff-raff.

 
Comment by measton
2009-06-14 11:00:43

If they end well fare without a works program you will see crime rates go through the roof.

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2009-06-14 07:16:16

I thought posters here were joking about solving the housing surplus problem by bulldozing them, but I guess not…

This was done to entire neighborhoods in Alaska following the oil boom.

Comment by are they crazy
2009-06-14 08:19:00

Really? When did that happen? I lived in AK from 76 to 91 and I don’t remember that happening.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 08:42:13

I heard the demolition was done in Texas after the price of crude oil went down to $10 per barrel. I think Texas is what you’re thinking of.

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Comment by JimboAC
2009-06-14 10:33:40

This was done to the south inlet in Atlantic City from about 1965 to 70, IIRC. Effort was led by urban redevlopment pioneer, Pauline Hill; everything razed in a roughly 20 x 4 block area. Trouble was there was nothing built to replace what was razed; tract came to be known as “Pauline’s Prairie.” Even to this day, redevelopment is only sporadic and subsidized. The one project to which all the civic boosters pointed as the beginning of AC’s “Third Wave” is the Revel Casino. Alas, the only work now being done on it is the bare minimum needed to prevent the elements from transforming it into a rusting, soggy derelict.

Local Observation: At a Fleetwood Mac concert last night in AC’s Convention Hall, I’d guesstimate there were 1,000 empty seats in roughly 11,000-seat hall. Most shocking thing about the night, though, was the lack of any real traffic around the hall. My brother drove and we got in and out with no delays at all. Usually, its grid-lock city when there is a Saturday night event in the hall this time of year.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-06-14 11:26:06

They didn’t deserve to have a full house. I’m was so disgusted with their $150 ticket fee here in San Jose. Talk about reaming their fans!

 
Comment by JimboAC
2009-06-14 15:31:13

Yeah– I was in the $50 per ticket nose bleed seats with my brother and four friends. The biggest section of unsold seats was literally spitting distance from where we were. But those seats went for $95 or $100 per. Oh well, still had fun; one eye on the stage; one eye on the monitor; $7 beer grasped firmly in hand.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-14 09:02:58

I kind of keep an eye on jobs and bank health news trends in Wisconsin.

Better keep those bulldozers rolling as I’ve seen at least 3 car dealerships leveled the ground in the past few years and expected to see more. The bad commercial/business loans are starting to hit the banks books now.

“More state businesses delinquent on loans
Commercial lending brings more tough news for banking industry

Delinquent commercial loans have more than doubled in Wisconsin, leaving beleaguered banks bracing for a dose of bad debt from business borrowers.

Commercial loans totaling nearly $2.2 billion were overdue at the end of the first quarter, compared with a little more than $1 billion in Wisconsin a year earlier. That includes loans tied to business operations as well as commercial real estate.

While the collapse of residential mortgages led the nation into the recession and financial crisis, the fallout from those woes - job losses and consumer spending cutbacks - has put heretofore good business loans in jeopardy, too.

“How many storefronts do you see closed? All those people are not paying rent now,” said banking consultant David L. Donihue. “When they’re not paying rent, the people who own that real estate - it’s all borrowed money - obviously are having trouble paying.”

All five of the largest banks based in Wisconsin reported higher delinquencies on commercial real estate and business operation loans in the first quarter, according to Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. figures.

The percentage of non-current commercial real estate loans - loans whose collateral is land and buildings - to total loans increased to 1.95% in the first quarter from 0.75% a year earlier for Milwaukee’s M&I Bank, which is the state’s largest. Associated Bank’s ratio of tardy commercial real estate loans to total loans almost tripled, to 2.97% from 1.05%, while Johnson Bank’s rose to 1.15% from 0.84%, AnchorBank’s increased to 4.08% from 2.36%, and Bank Mutual’s more than doubled to 4.28% from 1.75%.”

http://www.jsonline.com/business/47969746.html

Ahh…That Leverage = the Gift that Keeps on Giving.
:)

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Comment by rudekarl
2009-06-14 09:52:01

But if you’re delinquent on your commercial loans, you can now get a govt backed loan to pay the bank some of the money you owe them. Everything seems to be keyed to getting folks to borrow more money to funnel back to the banks.

SBA ARC Loan Program

If your small business is stressed meeting expenses during these economic times, the U.S. Small Business Administration has a new loan program designed just for you.

SBA’s America’s Recovery Capital Loan Program can provide up to $35,000 in short-term relief for viable small businesses facing immediate financial hardship to help ride out the current uncertain economic times and return to profitability. Each small business is limited to one ARC loan.

 
 
 
Comment by Mugsy
2009-06-14 09:54:03

Folks here predicted this 3 years ago

Comment by Mugsy
2009-06-14 09:56:49

The bulldozing I mean. How did this comment end up all the way down here?

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Comment by Leighsong
2009-06-14 10:30:19

chuckles - I’ve had those scratching the head moments here on the blog too!

Leigh ;)

 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-14 21:28:21

‘They’ already did some of that in Victorville.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-06-15 09:54:00

This will be the solution. Destroy everything, have the banks keep what is left, and then give people no choice but to buy at absurdly inflated prices.

 
 
Comment by jim a
2009-06-14 05:59:13

Keep in mind even if the end state of having a “right sized” city IS better, what we’re talking about is using eminant domain to buy the properties from little old retired ladies and families. Politicaly, this is a non-starter.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-06-14 06:48:13

The City of Detroit certainly will use eminent domain. It has many times before. A lot of people would actually like to get OUT of these neighborhoods, but can’t sell their houses. It could be a godsend to them. The elderly would probably move into subsidized apartments with nice neighbors in areas where there are still shopping opportunities, churches, etc. A lot of those people are trapped in these godforsaken neighborhoods. Detroit still has some very nice, functioning areas, also, although the taxes are too high and the school system is too dysfunctional for me to ever consider moving into the city.

Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 09:16:27

so basically what you’re saying is that it’s a scheme to bailout the landowners because they can’t sell at “any” price, yet the gov’t will come in and pay top dollar?

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-06-14 09:39:37

Detroit simply doesn’t have enough money to pay top dollar for anything.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 10:03:50

Detroit simply doesn’t have enough money to pay top dollar for anything

Agreed, ET. Was just commenting on what silverback was suggesting. If it’s a positive for the landowners, that means they’d get more from the gov’t via eminent domain than the would in the open market. Which I think is generally unlikely in eminent domain scenarios (personally, I think if eminent domain is used, the taxpayers should pay 3x market value..if it is worth taking forcefully, it’s worth paying a premium for).

More likely, there are people who are going to lose their homes against their will, and will be poorly compensated.

 
 
Comment by Wee Willy
2009-06-14 16:03:39

In Ontario people are refusing to move into subsidised housing; too much crime. If you are unemployed you are placed at the second step on the waiting list for subsidised housing. If you commit a crime you are placed on the top step on the waiting list for subsidised housing. Sensible people are urging the government to rethink this policy.

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Comment by oxide
2009-06-14 06:54:14

Admittedly, the resistance to this is pretty high.

But in this case it might still work. It’s not like building an airport or a school (or high-tax luxury condos :roll: ) where you need to clear every house within a 10 acre radius. If a little old lady wants to stay, just raze the stuff surrounding her. You’ll have parkland dotted with lone houses. Why not?

Better yet, convert the lawns to small farmland (if possible), and Flint can support its own food structure, maybe.

Comment by oxide
2009-06-14 06:55:45

(and per Silverback’s comment above, when all the original owners finally leave, they can finish the total bulldozing.)

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-06-14 07:14:11

“just raze the stuff surrounding her. You’ll have parkland dotted with lone houses. Why not?”

I think the idea is to completely dismantle the infrastructure (roads, sidewalks, water, electric, sewer, etc.) Otherwise, you may have removed a lot of ugly and unsafe blight, but you haven’t proportionately reduced the burden on the municipality.

Of course this assumes that the whole process is done properly and sensibly, which admittedly is a huge assumption.

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Comment by jim a
2009-06-14 08:39:51

But the WHOLE GOAL is, as others have pointed out to get rid of the the very street that she lives on. And even if Detroit could come up with enough money to pay people “fair market value” for a house, for low value houses that is less than what it would cost to purchase a house in one of the non (or at lesast less)-blighted areas that they want so.

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Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 08:15:24

using eminant domain to buy the properties from little old retired ladies and families. Politicaly, this is a non-starter ??

It may be a non-starter politically but it is not from a legal standpoint..The US Supreme Court recently ruled on a much broader interpitation and librilization on the use of Eminent Domain

Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 09:18:29

The US Supreme Court recently ruled on a much broader interpitation and librilization on the use of Eminent Domain

And in response a lot of states restricted the possible use of eminent domain. I’m not sure which ones, but I know that a lot of state legislatures took action in response to that ruling.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 09:51:00

And the municipality that took Kelo’s property ran out of money after the condemnation - it’s now a “FB”. LOL.

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Comment by neuromance
2009-06-14 18:47:34

using eminant domain to buy the properties from little old retired ladies and families. Politicaly, this is a non-starter ??

It may be a non-starter politically but it is not from a legal standpoint..The US Supreme Court recently ruled on a much broader interpitation and librilization on the use of Eminent Domain

Google “Kelo vs New London” if you want to see how out of control eminent domain can be.

I’m generally not libertarian, but this was an egregious overstepping of government authority.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 08:46:23

Jim,

Yeah, the eminent domain issue is what I don’t like. In most cases “fair value” purchase of property is below value, especially sentimental value.

If I had some good ocean view property along the California coast and the government used eminent domain, I would be very upset and do something “out of revenge.”

Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 09:47:19

If I had some good ocean view property ??

Thats exactly what the US Supreme Court case was about…Multiple property owners on a Marina…City wanted to redevelop the property into a “For Profit” major commercial/retail development…The argument against eminent domain was that it did not constitute a “Public Use” because the land after condemnation was to be sold to a private for profit developer…The court held that even though the city did not personally use the property for a specific public use, lets say, a park, that it still substantially held a “public benefit” in that it enhanced the revenue to the city thereby improving the quality of life for the public in general…Kind of scary really if you are a property rights advocate…

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-14 21:40:36

Souter backed that one. That was a shock. But he did.

 
 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 09:15:07

I was going to come make this comment as well. Unfortunately, I don’t agree that it’s a non-starter. I wish that were the case, but I’m not as confident as you are :/

 
Comment by measton
2009-06-14 11:08:16

Politicaly, this is a non-starter.

I don’t think so

1. People stuck in crappy neighborhoods will probably be offered nicer homes already owned by the federal gov.
2. The few remaining people who pay taxes will like it because the city won’t have to pay to maintain miles and miles of roads sewer ect.
3. Unemployed will like it because it will offer jobs.
4. Business will like it because it will offer gov contracts and jobs.
5. Environmentalists will like it if the land is returned to farm or natural habitat.
6. Homeless advocates - Not sure how anyone can be homeless in a city with such a glut of homes, but I’m sure they will be thrown a bone too.

The only people who loose are those outside Detroit who pay federal taxes to pay for it all, but let’s face it this is a drop in the bucket compared to AIG and bank bailouts. If the homes they bulldoze are already uninhabitable I”m all for it.

Frankly I can’t believe it’s taken this long.

Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 11:56:50

I don’t think so ??

What about the third or fourth generation owners who want to stay ?? Are you going to tell them that they do not have a choice even though its their property ?? Gonna disconnect their water, gas & electricity ?? Where are the private property rights ?? Thats what I mean about Politically a non-starter…Although, given the Supreme courts recent ruling on eminent domain they could try that road…It would get ugly though…People hold up in their houses with guns come to mind..

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-06-15 10:04:16

As has been proven before, property rights (especially those of people who did NOT play “the game”) do not matter. They will do whatever it takes to keep the Ponzi-conomy rolling.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 06:16:44

They are making more land you know.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-14 11:07:00

Are you calling Will Rogers a liar?

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 16:10:18

Well, I like some of his stuff

“Our constitution protects aliens, drunks, and U. S. Senators. There ought to be one day (just one) when there is open season on senators.”
As quoted in The American Treasury, 1455-1955 (1955) by Clifton Fadiman, p. 334

“You know everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.”
The New York Times (31 August 1924)

“This country has gotten where it is in spite of politics, not by the aid of it. That we have carried as much political bunk as we have and still survived shows we are a super nation.”
Daily Telegram #1948 (1 November 1932)

“We are the first nation in the history of the world to go to the poor house in an automobile.”
As quoted in How We Elect Our Presidents (1952), edited by Donald Day, p. 111

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-14 21:43:27

“This country has gotten where it is in spite of politics, not by the aid of it. That we have carried as much political bunk as we have and still survived shows we are a super nation.”
Daily Telegram #1948 (1 November 1932)

Exactly like the corp I work for. It is successful in spite of itself, its bad management and overspending on BS and things that don’t work. Oh and their bonuses. Just think, when it is a holiday, night time, weekend and mgmnt isn’t around, the place works just fine. Now give the day or week off to those who actually work and VOILA with Just Mgmnt around, nothing will work. Trust me. NOthing.

 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-06-14 07:25:54

I’d certainly be in favor of bulldozing Washington, DC and making it farmland. With the megatons of BS that have poured out of the buildings there over the last century, you could probably grow anything.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-06-14 18:44:21

+ infinity

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 07:58:23

US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive

Yeah, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge took this concept to extremes, as depicted in THE KILLING FIELDS. As part of their socialist utopia they declared that 1975 - the year they defeated the US-based government - was Year Zero, and all the cities were emptied. Everyone was forced to go to work at rural communes in the countryside. Money was abolished. Intellectuals - i.e. anyone with an education or eye-glasses - were systematically exterminated, along with their families. Two million out of a population of seven million died of starvation, disease, or massacres. As is typically the case, the genocide went on for years because the international Left refused to acknowledge what their “revolutionary comrades” were doing.

Radical social(ist) “experiments” and utopias, and the rationalization that goes along with them, have historically culminated in mass graves.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-06-14 08:30:41

As one who shares your concerns about heavy-handed government by “well-meaning” progressives, I think your analogy is way overwrought here. The areas is question are mostly vacant of people. They already are mass graves - of houses. The people aren’t being forcibly moved for the most part - they’re already gone.

I think the idea has merit, if applied properly. If I was one of the remaining people stuck in one of those areas, I’d certainly be open to incentives to relocate to an actual functioning neighborhood, considering that I probably couldn’t sell my place for any price.

Sure it’s ripe for abuse and there’s all sorts of eminent domain questions. But cicites ended up bulldzoning most of the government’s urban “fair housing” debacles of 50 years ago. We’ll end up doing the same with many of the FIRE economies debacles of today IMO.

Comment by exeter
2009-06-14 08:39:36

Although not stated, the idea has brownfield development written all over it.

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Comment by jim a
2009-06-14 08:47:59

I’d wager that there is a high percentage of crotchety old men and little of ladies in those neighborhoods. People who simply won’t leave voluntarily. And really all it takes is one house on a block to eliminate the savings that these programs envisage. Yes, Pol Pot’s “year zero” is an overwrought analogy, but at the end of the day we’re talking about forcing people from their homes to create little-desired green-space in the name of saving money.

Much the same has been proposed for parts of post-Katrina New Orleans, and that hasn’t happened either. It’s politically hard enough to use eminant domain to acquire land for something that a large number of voters (or at least developers) want. but I suspect that there is just not enough of a marketabley upside to this for it to go through.

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 08:52:24

As one who shares your concerns about heavy-handed government by “well-meaning” progressives, I think your analogy is way overwrought here.

You may or may not have noticed that just about everything the government touches turns to sh*t. Ever since the Great Society, Federal, State, and Local governments have been perpetuating and justifying their relentless expansion by encouraging and promoting parasitic behavior and lifestyles. Not surprisingly, productive people who want to live in decent neighborhoods tend to not want to involuntarily be forced to live in close proximity to criminals and Section 8 trash. So they leave. So do businesses and enterprises that do want to stay in blighted, dangerous areas where local government is in the hands of corrupt and incompetent politicians (i.e. New Orleans). This is a natural consequence of government interference and failure to heed the concerns of the productive classes in this country.

Government attempts at being seen as necessary tend to create far more problems than they solve. That’s why I’m not a fan of “radical” experiments dreamed up by bureaucrats.

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Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-06-14 09:12:07

Section 8 trash? They’re human beings, too!

 
Comment by exeter
2009-06-14 09:13:40

Naaah…. just kill them. Or let the starve. Yeah…. thats it!

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 09:27:05

Section 8 trash? They’re human beings, too!

“Human beings” and “trash” aren’t mutually exclusive. Especially when it comes to Section 8s. Some are decent people down on their luck - most that I’ve encountered are lowlifes.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 09:54:33

Goodness you shouldn’t let them starve. If I can make a modest proposal, you could feed them Papist babies.

 
Comment by rudekarl
2009-06-14 09:55:33

Yeah, I’m looking out of my window watching one of those human beings taking a leak on the side of a building across the street. Probably friends with the scumbag that keyed my car - another human being.

Human beings aren’t always what they’re cracked up to be.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 13:46:48

Yeah Sammy, the FIRE sector does things so much better, don’t they? :lol:

 
 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 10:02:51

Out West there are hundreds of boom towns that have melted back into the scenery. Built mostly of wood, old mining towns have either rotted or burned away.

Idaho City was once the largest city in the PNW - larger than Seattle or Portland. It’s now down to a population of about 400, mostly people who enjoy living in “historic district” houses. The outlying buildings were taken down a hundred years ago for firewood and salvage value.

Conservative Idaho joke. There actually is a town named “Democrat” here in Idaho. It’s now a ghost town on the road to Whiskey Mountain.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 10:34:53

It’s really odd how the government developed the “neutron bomb” - a bomb that would kill off the people but leave the buildings standing.

What we really need is the converse. A bomb that would take out all of the buildings but let the people survive.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-14 11:11:21

Isn’t the neutron bomb really nasty? Leaves the majority of victims wandering around dying slowly of radiation poisoning?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 13:53:25

Yes.

Lovely, no?

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Comment by palmetto
2009-06-14 05:17:18

Reposting this from yesterday’s thread. A long, bitter and funny rant about Mozilo and the Elmer Fudd Nation (us). Now, I’d dearly love to see Mozilo and his ilk get theirs. But how? What are the solutions to this travesty of justice? I’m not sacrificing my life to bring justice to the dried out old prune. But does anyone have ANY ideas of what can be done non-violently, even though some of these criminals deserve otherwise?

http://www.counterpunch.org/ames06122009.html

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-14 22:44:11

Holy smokes. What a rant.

Mozilo’s quote was classic. entrepreneur??? Board willing to pay for his performance? Don’t you have to perform and not ruin the company?

“I strongly believe that a decade from now there will be a recognition that entrepreneurship has been driven out of the public sector resulting in underperforming companies and a willingness on the part of Boards to pay for performance.”

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-06-14 05:25:56

Mortgages
Beware of Neighbor’s Home Foreclosure.
NYT June, 12

WHEN it comes to selling your house or planning your next home equity line of credit, being a nosey neighbor could very well pay off.

That’s one implication of a recent report from the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer advocacy group based in Durham, N.C.

The report, which was released in May, focuses on the ripple effects of home foreclosures, and suggests that homeowners who are concerned about their home’s value should watch for signs of trouble among their closest neighbors.

This year alone, it says, foreclosures will cause an estimated 69.5 million nearby homes to suffer price declines averaging $7,200 per home. The loss in property value could total $500 billion.

The resulting loss in financial flexibility is significant. “Homeowners who had counted on using their home equity to finance their retirement, cover tuition costs, start a small business, or pay medical bills in many cases no longer have this option,” the report said.

Ellen Schloemer, the executive vice president of the Center for Responsible Lending, said that over the next four years, foreclosures would affect an estimated 91.5 million neighboring homes.

“As the foreclosure crisis continues to worsen, the contagion is spreading,” Ms. Schloemer said. “You can’t just say those foreclosures are hurting someone else.”

The rate of home foreclosures has rise sharply since 2007, when the first subprime adjustable-rate mortgages began resetting to higher rates. But even borrowers with good credit have defaulted on their loans as the economy has faltered.

According to the Mortgage Bankers Association, an industry trade group, about 1.4 percent of all first mortgages entered foreclosure in the first quarter of this year, a 20 percent jump from the fourth quarter of 2008, and a record high.

The center’s report relied on forecasts from Credit Suisse, which said late last year that about nine million homes would probably go into foreclosure in 2009 to 2012. The center also used late 2008 data from the Mortgage Bankers Association to estimate this year’s foreclosure figures (about 2.4 million homes).

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-14 06:07:46

“Homeowners who had counted on using their home equity to finance their retirement, cover tuition costs, start a small business, or pay medical bills in many cases may no longer have this option”

Nobody should’ve EVER had this option. Houses are just sitting there, not producing educational or medical services or the utilities/food/transportation that retirees use.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-14 07:02:22

AZ i respectfully disagree.

Home equity should be used for a severe emergency only…such as your kid/spouse needs a heart transplant and you need a quick $100K.

And tuition is not a bad idea since you will need someplace to live during the 2-4 years in school..so why not in your own home that you will probably sell anyway when you graduate Then sell the house and move to where you are offered a job with very little or no student debt.

Same with starting a business its OK, if you know the risk of failure is a foreclosure and you lose the house.

But I agree AZ it was not a reasonable rational though out decision to “Liberate” the home equity.

Comment by Tim
2009-06-14 08:54:09

Note that AZ Lender was not commenting on what a fair or reasonable use of equity was, he was commenting that equity shouldn’t be counted on, especially in the form of appreciation above historical rates. I agree with AZ Lender. The only thing it should be counted on in retirement is that if you pay your house off, you should have less housing/rent inflation risk.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-06-14 09:39:09

That’s an accurate characterization of my thoughts, just change the “he” to “she”

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 09:49:23

just change the “he” to “she”

Maybe we should have an old-school AOL chatroom “a/s/l” thread tomorrow morning to clear such things up across the board.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-14 09:55:13

Tim AZ agreed, but if it was available, some times people make those choices.

I believe one of the reason i am having such a hard time finding work is that We made a decision NOT to liberate the home equity and took turns caring for my father, and all i have to show is the last 5 years of all freelance work, and no “real” job for them to verify.

———————————————–
commenting that equity shouldn’t be counted on

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 10:06:57

Oh dear, I hope we don’t start calling women “woe-persons”.

 
Comment by Tim
2009-06-14 11:02:47

Sad but true. You could have pulled all your equity out and walked away. Maybe filed bankruptcy if it was a recourse state and they wanted to come after you. Hopefully things will turn soon for you.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 11:05:30

wymmyn

 
 
Comment by jim a
2009-06-14 09:23:21

Well there’s a very good chance that a house won’t appreciate enough in 4 years to make up for the cost of selling it. Remember that the traditional rule of thumb is that if you’re not going to live somewhere for ~6-7 years its better to rent. Add to the difficulty of paying for tuition AND financing a house and for most people it’s a non-starter.

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Comment by mikey
2009-06-14 10:36:22

“But I agree AZ it was not a reasonable rational though out decision to “Liberate” the home equity”

For the smart ones that didn’t cash out and run while the getting was good, their will be plenty of people from from MTG Loan Service Scamsters to local Sheriffs around to HELP “Liberate” any remaining Home Equity Investments of the FB or GF.

America…It’s gonna get rough!

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 14:00:00

Before the new bankruptcy laws were passed, 75% of ALL personal bankruptcies were medical related. 75%.

I say “before” as I have not seen the new figures.

Often, a second mortgage (now know as “refi”) was the only way to stay afloat. J6P doesn’t have a couple of 100 grand just laying around. ‘Course that night have something to do with all the offshoring over the last 30 years, but I’m not sure. <-sarcasm

Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 17:12:42

I’ve just seen the new figures. 65% of personal bankruptcies are for medical reasons and many of them had insurance.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-14 06:49:27

Calif. imposes 90-day foreclosure moratorium - dated June 13th, 2009
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=6863875&rss=rss-kgo-article-6863875

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-14 05:48:13

Wall Street Journal

* JUNE 13, 2009

Stocks in the Black on Gusher of Cash

By E.S. BROWNING

With a 34% rebound in three months, the Dow Jones Industrial Average has pushed into positive territory for 2009, and one of the main reasons is disarmingly simple: Financial markets once again are awash in government cash.

The Dow rose 28.34 points to 8799.26 on Friday, as money managers continued shifting funds into stocks. Still, the Dow remains down 38% from its 2007 record of 14164.53, and it had seemed to plateau in recent weeks on worries about the strength of the global recovery.

But governments around the world are pumping money into the economy at a frenetic pace. Because businesses can’t put trillions of new dollars to work in such a short time, the money is finding its way into financial markets. Some investors have begun speaking of a “bailout bubble” being created in certain markets, and about a “melt-up” in demand fueled by the growing supply of money.

Ya think? I guess it is better to have a liquidity flood into the stock market than into wheel barrows, anyway…

Comment by exeter
2009-06-14 08:46:51

So the $50k I put in the S&P at 750 only returned 26% so far?

Thank you We The People.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-06-14 05:48:27

Home sales rise as prices keep falling
BY GRETA GUEST • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • June 12, 2009

Metro Detroit home sales rose by 12.6% in May as compared with last year, yet home prices continued their fall — an indication that the market hasn’t hit bottom yet.
Advertisement

Overall, 5,955 homes were sold in May, compared with 5,288 sold in May 2008, according to Realcomp, a Farmington Hills-based multiple listing service.

The median sales price for homes sold in May was $50,000, a 44.3% drop from $89,700 in May 2008.

Foreclosures continue to drag down prices. In May, foreclosure sales accounted for 60% of all homes sold. And the median price of foreclosed sales in the metro area was $26,400 compared with a median sales price of $110,000 on non-foreclosed homes.

In the city of Detroit, the median sales price in May was $6,000, down 29.4% from May 2008.

Realcomp, which compiles data from closed sales reported by its Realtor members, said the inventory of homes offered for sale fell 24.9% in May to 50,181 compared with 66,811 a year ago.

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-14 06:13:12

“In the city of Detroit, the median sales price in May was $6,000″

I guess that’s a typo, but I love it.

Comment by SFC
2009-06-14 07:01:37

I don’t think that’s a typo, I’ve seen that $6,000 in a number of sources this week.

 
Comment by PortlandDad
2009-06-14 08:16:52

Definitely not a typo! Detroit, my hometown, is apocalyptic. And yet life goes on there…

Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 09:21:37

Yes, alas, back to the drudgery…….

http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/COL01/906140479/1053/

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Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 08:17:29

Not a typo, az.

Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-06-14 09:24:05

A house in Detroit is worth less than a used car, or about 6 weed plants. Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em!

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Comment by wmbz
2009-06-14 05:58:40

Here come some excerpts from Arthur B. Laffers article,in the WJS.
From seekingalpha

Here we stand more than a year into a grave economic crisis with a projected budget deficit of 13% of GDP. That’s more than twice the size of the next largest deficit since World War II…

With the crisis, the ill-conceived government reactions, and the ensuing economic downturn, the unfunded liabilities of federal programs — such as Social Security, civil-service and military pensions, the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, Medicare and Medicaid — are over the $100 trillion mark. With U.S. GDP and federal tax receipts at about $14 trillion and $2.4 trillion respectively, such a debt all but guarantees higher interest rates, massive tax increases, and partial default on government promises.

But as bad as the fiscal picture is, panic-driven monetary policies portend to have even more dire consequences. We can expect rapidly rising prices and much, much higher interest rates over the next four or five years, and a concomitant deleterious impact on output and employment not unlike the late 1970s.

About eight months ago, starting in early September 2008, the Bernanke Fed did an abrupt about-face and radically increased the monetary base — which is comprised of currency in circulation, member bank reserves held at the Fed, and vault cash — by a little less than $1 trillion. The Fed controls the monetary base 100% and does so by purchasing and selling assets in the open market. By such a radical move, the Fed signaled a 180-degree shift in its focus from an anti-inflation position to an anti-deflation position.

The percentage increase in the monetary base is the largest increase in the past 50 years by a factor of 10 (see chart). It is so far outside the realm of our prior experiential base that historical comparisons are rendered difficult if not meaningless. The currency-in-circulation component of the monetary base — which prior to the expansion had comprised 95% of the monetary base — has risen by a little less than 10%, while bank reserves have increased almost 20-fold. Now the currency-in-circulation component of the monetary base is a smidgen less than 50% of the monetary base. Yikes!…

It’s difficult to estimate the magnitude of the inflationary and interest-rate consequences of the Fed’s actions because, frankly, we haven’t ever seen anything like this in the U.S. To date what’s happened is potentially far more inflationary than were the monetary policies of the 1970s, when the prime interest rate peaked at 21.5% and inflation peaked in the low double digits. Gold prices went from $35 per ounce to $850 per ounce, and the dollar collapsed on the foreign exchanges. It wasn’t a pretty picture.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-14 06:05:05

“We can expect rapidly rising prices and much, much higher interest rates over the next four or five years, and a concomitant deleterious impact on output and employment not unlike the late 1970s.”

Did he miss the memo on the Fed’s interest rate buydown plan? What if they just kept quantitatively easing l-t T-bond purchases indefinitely to keep a lid on yields (and mortgage interest rates). What could possibly go wrong?

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-06-14 06:28:58

With a GD prodigy for fed chairman, an accounting whiz for secretary of the treasury, and an actual god for commander in chief, there is really nothing at all to worry about. Everyone just go about your business. … and don’t forget to spend.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-06-14 07:44:52

If the NY Times, Daily Kos, and MS/NBC covered events in Zimbabwe like they do here, you would assuredly know that ANYTHING concerning bad economic results can ONLY be because of Bush.

Comment by exeter
2009-06-14 08:53:52

Not Bush. Just the corporatists who got him elected that he was answering to.

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Comment by measton
2009-06-14 11:18:27

ie the same corporatists that have gotten them all elected.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-06-14 12:26:24

Please. Obama is not a god. His is, however, The One.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-06-14 18:55:06

“ie the same corporatists that have gotten them all elected.”

I think we’re finally all converging on the right targets.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ACH
2009-06-14 07:59:46

Arthur Laffer?
This is the same guy who denied any possibility of a problem in the economy in a debate with Lil’ Petey Schiff. I’m no fan of Peter Schiff (decoupling didn’t exist), but Schiff knew when things were out of kilter. Laffer, Moore, etc? I saw that video on FORA. They are complete idiots.

To be specific: Arthur Laffer is another of the so called economists/analysts who are the least qualified to advise anyone on economic issues. He’s like Ben Stein and his “cereal box” comments on the price and robustness of the financials: Completely wrong and won’t admit it. Stein did admit that he was wrong on the economy. Laffer? He thinks this is all a big misunderstanding.

Roidy

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 08:49:27

Seems like Arthur Laffer is starting to come into agreement with Schiff (higher interest rates, higher taxes, and so on).

 
Comment by exeter
2009-06-14 08:49:43

Lying Art Laffer? The Senior Henchman for the Chicago School Supply side lie??? That Art Laffer?

He hasn’t be found hanging from a tree yet?

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-06-14 18:57:19

Please point to anything he’s said that is a factual misstatement rather than an opinion that you disagree with.

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Comment by measton
2009-06-14 11:19:39

I”m sorry no one can compete with Ben Stein, but I like that his name has become an insult.

Comment by potential buyer
2009-06-14 11:40:40

Its OK — he’s now moved into commercials instead of financials………:-)

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Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 08:28:32

monetary policies of the 1970s, when the prime interest rate peaked at 21.5% ??

I believe it was 1981-82 when the prime rate got this high…

Comment by oxide
2009-06-14 10:41:07

A little revisionist history to shift blame from one President to another…

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-06-14 18:59:23

Oh, OK. So I guess you’re all over Obama for causing the current financial crisis.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-14 06:01:31

Why doesn’t the Congress just pass a bill to give everyone who wants a house the seller’s full asking price and be done with this? This socialistic futzing around at the margins will not do much to prop up housing prices.

Nation’s Housing / Kenneth Harney
Congress may broaden eligibility for tax credits
2:00 a.m. June 14, 2009

WASHINGTON – Since first-time buyers are getting thousands of dollars in tax credits from the federal government to stimulate the economy, why shouldn’t all home buyers get equal treatment? And what about refinancers – couldn’t they make good use of a tax credit to help defray closing costs and loan fees?

Whatever your thoughts on these questions, there is an effort getting under way in Congress to extend tax credits to anyone who buys a new or existing home in the coming year, with no income limitations. In one case, legislation would even create a new “temporary” $3,000 tax credit to help defray the costs of refinancing mortgages on principal residences.

Two Dallas-area congressmen – one a Democrat, the other a Republican – have introduced bills that not only would broaden the reach of the current housing tax credits to almost everybody, but would keep the program going until either mid-2010 or the end of that year. The current credit expires Nov. 30.

Rep. Kenny Marchant, a Republican who represents the suburbs between Fort Worth and Dallas, is pushing a bill that would expand the current $8,000 federal credit to buyers of all houses – not just first-timers – through June 2010. The bill (H.R. 2619) would also create an unprecedented $3,000 credit to help offset “qualified refinancing costs” – closing fees, lender charges and the like – through next June.

In a statement, Marchant said his goals are to “jump-start new sales,” “reduce the housing inventory” and “stabilize housing prices.”

As to the refinancing credit, he said the idea is to encourage owners “to take advantage of current low mortgage rates” – cutting their monthly payments to stay out of financial trouble. The $3,000 refi credit could be used to pay for loan “points,” other transaction fees, or to “put equity in their home if they’re a little underwater.”

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-14 09:44:37

“reduce the housing inventory”

Rep. Marchant, please scroll up, see “bulldozing” discussion

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2009-06-14 12:50:23

The $3,000 refi credit could be used to pay for loan “points,” other transaction fees, or to “put equity in their home if they’re a little underwater.”

OR it could be used to take out a little equity for that Hawaii vacation. What a complete joke!

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 06:46:35

Vehicle fraud cases heat up

By MARC LIFSHER

Los Angeles Times

Sunday, June 14, 2009

Motorists unable to afford payments on pricey cars and gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles in this recession are turning to a time-tested financing solution: matches.

Insurance cheats are torching their vehicles in remote deserts. They’re pushing them off cliffs. They’re sinking them in lakes or ditching them in Mexico in the hopes of getting their policies to pay off, fraud investigators say.

Nationwide, suspicious vehicle fires or arson increased 27 percent in the first quarter of 2009 compared with a year earlier, according to the National Insurance Crime Bureau, an industry-supported agency that investigates all types of insurance fraud. So-called owner give-ups - cars intentionally destroyed or abandoned - jumped 24 percent.

Barbecuing a Beamer is one of the more dramatic types of suspected insurance fraud that’s increasing in this economic downturn, the deepest in more than half a century. But it’s not the only one. Suspicious personal injury slip-and-fall claims increased 60 percent in the first quarter; staged car accident cases were up 34 percent and commercial property fire/arson cases jumped 76 percent.

Some consumers figure that they’ve paid premiums year after year, experts said, and that their insurers might not closely check every single claim. In fact, investigators say they tend to be particularly busy during tough economic times when an increasing number of policyholders are caught in financial crunches.

“When the economy goes south, crime goes up,” said Frank Scafidi, a crime bureau spokesman in Sacramento, Calif.

Investigators say the number of suspected give-ups, which are often hard to prove, is minuscule compared with the more than 1 million vehicles reported stolen each year. They acknowledge that suspected fraud may be underreported because insurers can’t meticulously investigate every vehicle fire or disappearance. Nevertheless, they said, the trend is clearly accelerating with 757 suspected vehicle fires nationwide in the first quarter of 2009, up from 596 in the same period last year.

Crime bureau investigators found a direct correlation between owners missing multiple car payments and the filing of false insurance claims. Rising gasoline prices also appear to be linked to suspected fraud cases involving fuel-sucking SUVs. A soft used-car market also has consumers looking to their insurers for relief - albeit illegally.

“People think it’s an easier out if they can no longer afford a car, but, unfortunately, it’s a crime,” Scafidi said.

“If they owe $10,000 and can only sell the vehicle for $7,000, they’ll still owe $3,000 and have to buy another (cheaper) vehicle,” he said. “So, people find themselves in tight spots and are making foolish decisions.”

On May 2, police arrested Matthew A. Riddle Sr., 36, and his mother, Lydia Riddle, 56, of Stockton, Calif., as well as a Sacramento man, John D. Vier, 32, on suspicion of insurance fraud, felony arson, conspiracy and false reporting of a crime.

The suspects face possible prison terms and thousands of dollars in fines for allegedly conspiring to have Vier burn Matthew Riddle’s 1998 Ford Expedition in hopes of collecting a $10,000 insurance claim.

The arrests came after a witness tipped off the Sacramento County Urban Insurance Fraud Task Force, one of dozens of interagency law enforcement groups around the state that are financed by a surcharge on auto insurance premiums.

Owners desperate enough to burn or ditch their own cars are asking for trouble, warned John Standish, the automobile insurance fraud bureau chief for the California Department of Insurance.

If caught, “they’re still saddled with settling the debt even though the car is not drivable,” he said, plus they could wind up with a felony conviction for insurance fraud and a sentence of as many as five years in prison.

Any scheme to commit auto insurance fraud usually involves conspiracy, said Mike McKee, a crime bureau special agent who covers all of Southern California. “Family and friends are involved,” he said. “It’s not a spur-of-the-moment thing because there’s a lot of criminal intent and forethought.”

Owner give-ups fall into two categories, McKee said. The most common is the amateur job, which usually involves the owner and a couple of relatives or friends. Professional rings charge a car owner as much as $500. The car or truck is either driven to Mexico for resale on the black market or taken to a “chop shop” to be stripped of its most valuable parts. Owners are instructed to wait three days before filing a stolen-car report.

One thing the professionals never do is set the cars on fire, McKee said. They want the money from the resale, and they want to keep as low a profile as possible.

“It doesn’t make sense for crooks to risk a felony charge by stealing a car, taking it to the desert to torch it and walking home,” he said.

Most amateur owner give-ups “make no sense in the real world,” McKee said, citing the recent case of Don and Orlando. (Investigators asked that full names not be used while the case remains open.)

Don was $1,400 behind on payments and had just lost his job. He allegedly paid Orlando $300 to drive the car out to the desert and burn it.

Before taking the keys, Orlando threw his daughter’s bicycle into the back of the vehicle for the long ride home, McKee said, reading from the case file.

Such cases usually lead to confessions and convictions, especially when somebody comes back smelling like gas, with singed eyebrows, McKee said.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 07:04:08

State media? “people are clamoring for caps on executive pay and recoiling at the idea of bosses cavorting at expensive spas.”

A race to keep up with the tightwads

By YLAN Q. MUI

The Washington Post

Sunday, June 14, 2009

WASHINGTON — In these recessionary times, people like Seigrid Walker are no longer concerned about keeping up with the Joneses. Now the goal is to fall far behind them.

The 33-year-old lawyer from Mitchellville, Md., once regaled her friends with tales of shopping sprees at Nordstrom and Caribbean vacations with her husband. Now she tells her girlfriends about staying home for pizza night with the kids.

Putting away their wallets

WASHINGTON - In the midst of the longest recession since World War II, the American public has gone from a near even split between savers and spenders to a jump in the number of savers. The results from two Gallup polls on Americans’ spending habits reflects this change. (Note: These figures reflect results among adults).

If people know that she can no longer afford to get her hair done every few weeks, who cares?

“If they notice, it’s like, ‘Phew, I’m not the only one,’ ” Walker said. “There’s a certain camaraderie with everyone understanding that everything is tight.”

The recession has changed the conversation in America. As the era of conspicuous consumption fades along with our 401(k)s, people are clamoring for caps on executive pay and recoiling at the idea of bosses cavorting at expensive spas. At play dates and happy hours, friends are swapping recipes instead of making restaurant reservations. Coupons has become a more popular search term than Britney Spears on Google.

Instead of feeling self-conscious about spending less, people are flaunting their frugality. Both those who have lost income, such as Walker, and those who simply fear they may become at risk are part of the new discourse.

“Something very deep has changed in the American psyche,” said Dan Ariely, a professor of behavioral economics at Duke. “The recession basically woke us up.”

That change was in painful evidence yesterday when luxury retailer Saks reported May sales were down nearly 27 percent from a year ago and Nordstrom said its fell 13 percent. Abercrombie and Fitch, which has been reluctant to lower prices, was down 28 percent. Overall, sales fell 4.6 percent at U.S. chain stores, according to the International Council of Shopping Centers.

According to a recent telephone survey of 1,000 people that Ariely conducted for Bank of America, about 80 percent of those surveyed said they are more conscious of spending now than at the beginning of the year. A Gallup poll in April showed 59 percent of Americans enjoy saving money, compared with 48 percent in April 2001. The percentage of people who said they enjoyed spending money dropped to 37 percent in April from 45 percent in 1991.

Such large numbers have helped normalize a new, more thrifty pattern of consumer behavior, Ariely said. In other words, being cheap has become socially acceptable.

Sarah Morgan said she didn’t mind showing up at the Loudoun Valley (Va.) High School senior prom in her mom’s minivan. The 18-year-old and her friends considered a limo but quickly dismissed the idea once they realized it would cost $45 to $60 a person.

“Some people were like, ‘Oh wow, you came in a van, that’s cool,’ ” Morgan said. “Everyone is cutting back, and it’s an easier way to get to someplace.”

The same mind-set has helped turn consignment sales into a main topic of conversation during Gina Lincicum’s moms club meetings.

Loathe to attend events with paid tickets, they alert one another to free family outings. E-mail chains now share cheap crockpot recipes for summer. So many people have asked Lincicum for her homemade pizza recipe - as much as $20 cheaper than delivery - that she posted it on her blog, Moneywise Mom.

“You can go to a social and everybody’s talking about how to save money, and that wasn’t the case a few years ago,” said Lincicum, 36, of Burke, Va.

Consumer confidence has rebounded after bottoming out in February, according to data from The Conference Board. The index is now at its highest level since the financial meltdown in the fall, though 45 percent of people reported business conditions are bad compared with 30 percent a year ago.

But IHS Global Insight economist Brian Bethune said spending has not followed the same patterns. Retail sales fell unexpectedly in April despite a significant gain in consumer confidence that month. Low home prices and restricted access to credit have also curtailed the ability - and desire - to spend. The personal savings rate was above 4 percent during the first quarter, the highest it has been all decade.

People now idolize women like Stephanie Nelson, one of the new rock stars of the recession. Nicknamed The Coupon Mom, she retains a publicist and has appeared on “The Early Show,” “The Today Show” and “Oprah” since the downturn began. Traffic to her Web site tripled in 2008 and is up 67 percent this year. At another popular Web site, The Coupon Clippers, members brag about their latest gets on a Facebook fan page and bulletin board.

Coupon Clippers founder Rachael Woodard marvels at the change that has come over Americans as the era of spend-it-all has receded into the age of save-what-you can. Many of her new members are not financially imperiled. Some even report six-figure salaries, she said.

“You had to get around a certain crowd to talk about how much you saved or didn’t spend because you would be called cheap,” Woodard said. “Now it’s OK to talk about it

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 08:59:28

WASHINGTON - In the midst of the longest recession since World War II, the American public has gone from a near even split between savers and spenders to a jump in the number of savers.

It is clear what needs to happen - Obama needs to appoint a new Czar to energize the War on Savers that he inherited, along with a couple of other wars, from former (thank God) President Bush. This kind of frugality is subversive and must be attacked, root and branch, by ever more creative schemes to tax and otherwise penalize those un-patriotic citizens who wish to limit their consumption to necessary items, or (gasp) live within their means.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 14:14:26

Thank god your local government doesn’t raise fees and taxes. Think of how bad that would be.

Oh wait…

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-06-14 07:13:30

Per today’s Boomberg:

“June 14 (Bloomberg) — Reports on manufacturing and housing this week will probably offer evidence that the recession- stricken U.S. economy is within months of hitting bottom, economists said.

A 1 percent drop in industrial production in May, based on the median of 68 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey, was due mainly to auto-industry shutdowns that swamped gains elsewhere, analysts said. Other reports may show builders began work on more houses as sales steadied and consumer prices rose.

The fallout from bankruptcies at Chrysler LLC and General Motors Corp. is likely to reverberate through the industry and the economy in coming months, even as other areas stabilize. Plunging home prices, near-record low mortgage rates and tax credits for first-time buyers may help bring an end to the worst residential construction slump in seven decades. ”
———–

Bottom calling within “months.” I don’t believe the bottom callers just yet. My suspicion is that we’re in a skewed “w” recession, and we’re at the bottom of the first half. There will be a rise. But there are a few more shoes yet to drop: banks still have toxic assets (I don’t believe those banks are paying back TARP because they can — it’s a PR stunt IMO) and I expect more banks to go down. Alt-A and Prime still haven’t reset. Then we’ll hit a lower bottom (early 2011)?

What I’m curious about is the mindset of the American consumer. Are they really going to hunker down like they did in the 30’s, repairing everything and buying nothing? My guess says no. Buying new is as cheap as repairing (thanks to southeast Asian labor), so I don’t expect the consumer culture to retract. Heck, SUV sales began to increase as soon as gas went down to $2.25 or so. Talk about short memories!

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-14 09:51:06

“builders began work on more houses”

In order to make more jobs for the above-mentioned bulldozers.

 
Comment by measton
2009-06-14 11:25:49

SUV sales began to increase as soon as gas went down to $2.25 or so. Talk about short memories

This boggles my mind. It tells me these people have no understanding of the inflation that awaits us. I’m in the deflation camp for now but believe that in the not too distant future gas will be so expensive that no one but banking CEO’s will be able to aford to drive an SUV.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 14:21:44

Can’t buy “new” without a job. Not even used.

Won’t buy “new” if you’re not sure about your job. Certified “pre-owned” is the best option for this case. Not certified “used” more than likely.

If you’re job is secure (HA!) but no raise is several years means you may buy “new” but you’re going to move lower down ladder, just to be safe, ya know? Maybe even upper end “certified pre-owned.”

See the trend?

 
 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-06-14 07:35:52

Are we below 200 sqft yet in SD?
I didn’t think so.

Comment by Milkcrate
2009-06-14 08:11:57

You get a putting green and a koi pond, right?

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-14 07:41:39

Ca Foreclosure Moratorium (June 13th, 2009 )
(Didn’t we just have one expire?)
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=6863875&rss=rss-kgo-article-6863875

Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-06-14 09:05:57

“There have been more than 365,000 foreclosures in California since early 2007, with many more already scheduled.”

well kick my butt!

 
Comment by cereal
2009-06-14 13:00:02

Oh goodie. We’ll get 3 extra months of pent up supply just in time for the fall non-selling season.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-14 13:48:21

Thanks for the emotional uplift. We’re planning to do a 100% down payment by the *end of the year. You gave me another way to look at it.This looks like a Japanese style slide, imho.
*that $8,000 fed tax credit is a max. It’s 10% of the purchase price. The media has given a misconception of the details. Someone in Congress is pitching a revised bill to give (housing) moveups and the well off the same perks. No salary limits.

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-06-14 08:00:41

Joe (Plagiarize Me) Biden is on Meet the Press today declaring that the Stimulus Plan is definitely “working”; yet another economic victory for the Obama regime.

Now, since Biden, Obama, and most of the politicos in DC have never had a real job, I wonder what they think “working” is.

I guess it would be along the lines of “Two hookers were ‘working’ the bar at the Plaza Hotel”, or “Is our conspiracy to empty the Treasury ‘working’?”

I still like the bulldoze DC plan. That could get some people productively working.

Comment by exeter
2009-06-14 08:57:35

Pining away for the dark fraud ridden years won’t bring them back. We don’t want them back.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-06-14 12:37:21

Exeter, The One is so much scarier than Cheney ever was.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-14 14:18:47

Ummm…yeah.

*giggle plus eye-roll *

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-14 14:21:49

Wait, no. That was actually more of a:

*giggle plus two and a half eye-rolls, with the additional flourish of a brief sneering scrollback of the upper left lip *

Man, we need more emoticons than we got. Besides this one, I’d like to see an ‘I’m hungry’ emoticon. Although I’d surely overuse that one.

:I’m hungry!:

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 14:28:29

No kidding Olygal. Is he talking about the same Cheney?

The “falsified WMD reports, spy-outing, torture signing” Cheney we know, or maybe his brother from an alternate universe, Fred Cheney?

 
 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-06-14 22:51:07

Glenn Beck, is that you?

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Comment by cashedin05
2009-06-15 00:57:57

Keith, is that you?

 
Comment by exeter
2009-06-15 04:34:52

Glen Beck? You mean Harold Hill the whining victim?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 08:05:08

No cars for you. NEXT!

GM plans to close 35 dealerships in Florida

By Doreen Hemlock

South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Saturday, June 13, 2009

General Motors plans to close 35 dealerships in Florida as part of a restructuring plan that winds down 1,323 dealers nationwide by October 2010, executives from the troubled carmaker told a U.S. House committee Friday.

Pennsylvania stands to lose the most GM dealers: 90, followed by Ohio with 79, Illinois with 66 and California with 65, the company informed the Energy and Commerce committee’s oversight and inestigation’s subcommittee.

Only Alaska is spared shutdowns.

GM has declined to identify individual dealerships set to wind down, offering only the state-by-state breakdown so far.

 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-06-14 08:12:02

We really need a California Czar!
And some gestapo’s

Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 10:19:57

You mean, “gas-stoppos”.

 
 
Comment by TCM_guy
2009-06-14 08:19:13

Question of the day:

What % of all SFHs sold are purchased with cash, without a mortgage?

What % of all SFHs sold are purchased with real, genuine cash, without the loan hiding elsewhere?

If a guy with very high stock equity/net worth also has a small margin balance before and after the SFH purchase, does this mean he financed? If having ANY debt means the SFH was financed, then is there EVER any such thing as a SFH purchased with cash?

“I gave cash for it” usually gets my red flags going, since this is a debtor nation: in debt we trust. My guess is that the people with real, genuine net worth (not RE bogus, small/medium/big business bogus, Madoff bogus, MLM bogus, Ponzi Bogus, etc.) are very few. But just exactly how few are there?

Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 09:01:56

But just exactly how few are there ?

It happens often in this zip code 94027…I am sure there are others, say, Manhattan, Beverly Hills or Palm Beach…

 
Comment by Tim
2009-06-14 09:03:13

The numbers would provide little insight as to who could actually pay cash because the Feds have kept interest rates so low recently. With 5% tax deductable mortgage rates, you are locking in 3.5% savings. Unless you are near retirement age and want zero risk, paying all cash doesn’t really make sense in such an interest rate environment. Hopefully, mortgage rates will be at 8% soon (a return to 15% would be really great). I would be an all cash buyer, but would feel like a fool paying all cash today.

Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 09:57:49

With 5% tax deductable mortgage rates ??

Chicken feed for these groups…Remember Tim, the mortgage interest deduction is capped @
1-mil loan…

 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 09:32:05

As far as I could tell, the fellow who bought my house less than a year ago was a true cash buyer. I suppose he may have debt somewhere, but he was a ~70 year old business owner who cut a check - provided proof of funds with the offer so the house definitely wasn’t financed.

Comment by Rancher
2009-06-14 11:03:48

We paid cash for our place, I hate debt and we
could, so why not? Now I just have to pay the rent every year.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-14 11:18:07

Drummin:

It will be his kids and grandkids that will curse him in his grave for throwing away a big chunk of their inheritance by paying cash for a house.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 13:23:04

If my heirs want to curse me in my grave for having enjoyed freedom from debt, so be it. It’s not like whether they bless me or curse me is going to make my grave any more or less comfortable.

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 13:48:49

When I used to live in Yemen, a party of American tourists coming through was a big story - most of the few tourists who came were European. The story got bigger when a tourist in her 80s had a massive heart attack and died.

The American consul contacted her heirs about repatriating the body. The adult kids said, “Leave her there, we’re not going to pay to ship her back.” They were estranged because she had been enjoying her golden years traveling all over the world on tours and cruises - spending “their inheritance,” to their chagrin.

The consul was having problems making arrangements with a Muslim cemetery, so he finally arranged for her to be moved and buried in a tiny Christian cemetery at an American mission hospital in the southwest of the country.

When the consul notified the family of the plan, they said “But she’s Jewish.” So plans were changed and one of the small Yemeni Jewish communities up north in the area where she died took care of her funeral and burial and were happy to do so.

The other tourists said that she wasn’t ill during the trip and that she had been having a great time in her life of traveling around until she died.

Good for her.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 14:53:37

Actually, he bought the house for his ex-son in law and his grandkids (SiL had custody of the kids, I guess?). He wanted to make sure they were close by and had a good environment to grow up in.

So, I sure hope they won’t be cursing him! Talk about a stand-up guy and a good move…I was very impressed.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-14 15:35:09

Drummin:

Well maybe not curse him but what if the house loses 1/2 or more its value, when he could have rented or bought a small condo… and give the money away yearly..opened up college savings accounts trust fund etc.

This could add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain …not exactly chicken feed….that’s all i was saying.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 20:04:22

This could add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars down the drain …not exactly chicken feed….that’s all i was saying.

Agree with the sentiment. But for small children..having a big back yard, 1/4 acre lot, nice quiet street in a stable neighborhood is definitely worth it. And if it loses a few hundred thousand dollars in value, well..it’d be worth zero. Sales price was $220k.

I get your point - there’s always going to be room for the heirs to be upset with those with the money - “hey, you should’ve gotten the chicken club in stead of the filet mignon..that $50 could be mine in $20 years!” But in this situation, I think the grandfather is above reproach. He bought a freakin house for his EX son in law (ie no longer a relative) simply for the benefit of his grandchildren. I spent quite a bit talking to him throughout the transaction and afterwards. Stand up guy in my book, just trying to do the best he can for his family. They (grandfather and grandmother) furnished the place as well.

 
 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 10:55:32

I paid real cash for my house here in Boise. I have no debt of any kind.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-06-14 12:42:04

Nationally, I believe about 20% of all homes are owned free and clear. We paid cash for our foreclosure purchase in 2005.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 08:22:03

My wife and I are having Rochester fever again today. It appears that we’re in a time-warp, being on the bleeding edge of the bust in Florida, and eyeballing moving to the tail of the boom in Roc. Talk about a crappy play.

Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 09:01:13

Break that fever with the knowledge their first hard frost will probably be in late August. :)

 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-06-14 09:08:36

freeze or burn, take yer pick.

Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 09:10:39

I’d prefer my handle say “Freezy”

Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 09:32:48

I just emailed my credit union’s mtg. person and gave them a list of (upstate) towns to keep me in mind for if foreclosures pop up.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 09:50:40

Muggy, for some reason I just can’t accept that you sit around and watch COPS on a Saturday night…that just really doesn’t fit the persona of, welll, anyone posting on this blog.

Why COPS?

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 10:15:40

NJ, Did you see last night?! The guy that crashed the motorcycle going 15mph and the 8 Rancho Cucamonga cops that went into that old ladies house for a stolen cake!

I guess I just love people (seriously) of all walks of life. COPS is just one piece of that puzzle.

I learned from two party masters: a lawyer buddy in NYC who has holiday parties with the mailman, old lady upstairs, federal judges, etc. and a teacher friend down here who has poker nights with the mechanic, sheriff, entrepreneurs, commercial fisherman, etc.

I will take my littleman and littlegal to monster trucks shows, gun clubs, fishing, Broadway, Hannah Montana, Ottawa, Andrea Dworkin memorial, largest ball of twine, whatever…

Anyway, the short answer is, Saturday night is brainless time, and we don’t have cable, so COPS it is.

 
Comment by Mugsy
2009-06-14 10:46:03

Best episode EVER of COPS was when the Boston PD had to take a guy down on a highway in the traffic. They were chasing him, cornered him and then the guy turned around and attacked the officer with a knife. There was a quick gunshot and the suspect was on the ground. Holy hell that was scary. COPS rules :>

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-14 14:23:26

‘…that went into that old ladies house for a stolen cake!

What kind of cake was it? Don’t forget the importantest details, man.
And then what happened to the cake?

 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 09:26:50

After 48 winters of freezing, I’m ready for burn.

Comment by scdave
2009-06-14 10:01:42

Why freeze or burn..??…93448 :)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-14 12:24:43

Or lookit 98501. Plus you got all these pretty clouds everywhere. :)

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-06-14 12:44:26

“Nothin’ could be finer than to be in Carolina…”

 
Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 15:24:11

With all due respect, 93448 is in that crazy state. :)

I’ll go south and sweat.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-06-14 09:56:38

Yo, Muggs-
Have you and your wife ever had this fever hit in January or February?

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-14 11:19:24

Muggy

I enjoyed living and visiting in Florida but as a 4 seasons guy, I always loved reaching the north Chattanooga Hill Grade and leaving the heat behind for a while.

Maybe a short visit to see the leaves and or even the snow this Fall will break the Florida routine.

Nothing like a good frost on the nose or icy roads to make you appreciate the benefits of warm sunshine.
:)

 
 
Comment by ACH
2009-06-14 08:42:30

Apalachicola, Florida, June 2009
Me and my family are back from our annual vacation to northern Florida. I’ve visited this area on an annual basis since I was 6 years old, and I lived here for 5 years while I attended school (FSU). Yes, I love here!

Ok, I was on an island that is fairly remote as things go meaning that there are no “4-lanes” or direct shots to this area from the interstate. They do have very nice beach houses!

My wife and I usually take some time to nose around the place. What we found was puzzling.
1) The houses appeared to be rented but not quite as frenzied as in the past.
2) There was no construction in progress. This is a real break from the past 5 years. I have seen some abandoned construction in progress. There were 6 or 7 houses and lots abandoned unfinished.
3) The oystermen in the bay are more numerous than ever. I assume this is because there is no construction.
4) Restaurants appear to be failing.
5) Newer businesses are failing. Established businesses appear to be under pressure.
6) There are a lot of rental and private residences for sale.
7) There are a number of perfectly located houses that are abandoned, unfinished, or in disrepair.
8) There are a lot of houses that are looking great. The weekly rental market does not appear to be over built in that the beach houses are occupied.

It’s a mixed bag. The whole area appears to be under stress but not going down the tubes - yet. The final result will entirely depend upon economic improvement and a commitment by the local businesses to limit and control costs while giving a good product. I think that the good product part is slipping. Where this goes is not yet certain, but it is down for now.

We had a nice time! I love the beach.

Roidy

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 09:08:42

Ben, I think you mentioned the Florida meet-up going something like this:

http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article1009708.ece

Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 10:33:28

WHOA! Check out some of the rules for that club (most likely precludes OlyGal’s entry):

* Burning of pallets or tires is not allowed
* No Chainsaws

Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 11:01:51

Geez no hand grenades either. What killjoys.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-14 12:33:20

What?! No kiddin! Outta there!

Jeeze, I bet there’s not even any nude tree-climbing going on!

Actually, that’s not happening around here either, lately. (sap and slivers) Except on the nice and plushy super-mossy ones, of course.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 11:05:53

Ben could have a Kentucky meet at Knob Creek range.

http://www.knobcreekrange.com/shootinfo.htm

The Machine Gun Shoot itself consist of four rounds of firing at a wide variety of appliances, vehicles, pyramids of tires, and barrels of fuel with pyrotechnic charges attached. The pyrotechnic charges are then painted orange for the shooter to see. The charges are set off by the impact of the bullets. Creating large and small mushroom clouds and fire balls from hell!! Their objective is to destroy everything down range.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-14 13:20:53

Folks in Kentucky sure do get to have some fun. Out here in CA you’re fortunate if you get to go to a paint ball session, much less full auto fire with pyrotechnics.

On a side note. Today I wanted to bid at an online auction for a Ruger MK1. Checked with the dealer first to see if he/she could ship from OR to CA. Yes, but the MK1 isn’t on the drop test list of “safe” firearms for California.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-14 16:00:17

HOLY CRAP!

* Flamethrower rentals available Friday, Saturday & Sunday

Comment by DennisN
2009-06-14 20:27:16

Knob Creek is sort of a fantasy-camp for gun nuts. It gets expensive since they charge for ammo by the round. You can use up over $1,000 worth of .50 cal BMG ammo in well under a minute on full auto.

I’ve seen photos of flamethrower use there. They use the real thing with real napalm fuel. You get to go up to old junk cars and torch them.

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Comment by BlueStar
2009-06-14 14:41:14

So this is where the Squidbillies get all their plot lines for their cartoons!
Thanks for the laughs.

 
 
Comment by Ernst Blofeld
2009-06-14 09:18:15

Palmcaster, CA, in the LA Times:

By Peter Y. Hong
June 10, 2009

But in 14 Southland ZIP Codes, mainly desert communities in the Antelope Valley and Inland Empire, median prices have fallen below levels recorded in April 1989, according to MDA DataQuick, a San Diego real estate information service.

That means thousands of homes in those neighborhoods — even houses barely 20 years old and in decent shape — have lost every dime of their appreciation, giving back not just the gains of the recent bubble but steady increases logged over a generation.

The April median price in Beatrice’s Lancaster ZIP Code of 93535, for example, was $87,000. That’s down 74% from a $334,500 peak price in 2007. Even worse was the 92410 ZIP Code in the city of San Bernardino, which covers several older neighborhoods. Its $61,000 April median represents an 84% drop from the peak of $370,000 in 2007.

Prices also tumbled below 1989 levels in neighborhoods in Palmdale, Hemet, Barstow, Desert Hot Springs, Victorville, Highland, Santa Ana and Oxnard, according to DataQuick. Several other inland communities, including parts of Moreno Valley, Banning and Rialto, had median prices that were only slightly above 1989 levels and below the April 1990 median.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 10:14:02

Ridgecrest (Northern Mojave Desert) would also have house prices at 1989 price levels if not for the navy base growing in a BRAC situation. I figure my salary as a civil service employee by now would be half of what I’m currently raking in right now, which is not necessarily a bad thing. The house I sold for $79,000 in 1996 is Zillowed at $187,000 right now. Still, I’m far better off by moving out of Ridgecrest in 1996!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-14 21:55:38

I call BS on that 1989 figure.
Truly, I would say, even in DesertHotSprings, some prices are down, but those prices of ‘89 isn’t happening en masse.
Those towns named are about the non prime locations, the fringe areas. All of them. Now if we were showing that in town, that would be another subj. 3 weeks ago I was driving around Hemet, and again, lots of homes are still, way above 1997 rates, minimum. Then there are the fringe areas of town. Different animal.

Sort of like comparing oh say, La JOlla vs Chula Vista…see?
Same town sort of, different location.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 09:38:43

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff061309.html

Obama Nation: Crony Capitalism at it’s finest - latest from Peter Schiff.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 14:52:26

Two words: Cheney. Haliburton.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-06-14 15:06:24

“Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.” — The Who

Once again, the sheeple have traded one sleazy, incompetent Administration, blinded by its own hubris, for another. And in four years they’ll do it again.

Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 16:24:38

And don’t forget they’ll do the same with congress, every two years.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 17:14:26

Yep and yep.

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 10:58:01

Florida judges seek ways to ease congestion in courts caused by flood of foreclosures

By MICHAEL C. BENDER

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, June 14, 2009

TALLAHASSEE — With Florida accounting for one of every six foreclosures in the country and legislators showing little interest in addressing the crisis, a handful of judges are exploring ways to keep borrowers and lenders out of an increasingly congested court system.

“It’s very frustrating to recognize that consistently over the last three years we’ve sustained budget cutbacks and staff reductions in the court system and this tsunami has hit with foreclosures,” said Burton Conner, a judge in the judicial circuit that includes St. Lucie, Martin and Okeechobee counties.

That circuit has begun requiring borrowers and lenders to meet before their first court appearances, leading to many cases being settled. Meanwhile, Palm Beach County’s circuit court last week launched a pilot program to help homeowners understand options that could keep them in their houses.

But action from Tallahassee has been limited, even with nearly 11 percent of all mortgages in Florida in foreclosure - the highest rate in the country, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association. Foreclosures in Florida dropped from April to May but were still up 50 percent from the same time last year, according to numbers RealtyTrac released Thursday.

During the spring session that ended last month, state lawmakers introduced 15 bills to address foreclosure issues. But 10 bills never received a hearing, including several that would have required mediation between lenders and borrowers. The Center for Responsible Lending estimates that one of every three homeowners facing foreclosure in Florida could stay in their homes with mediation.

Instead, lawmakers approved just two foreclosure-related bills: one to comply with new minimum federal regulations for lenders, and another to increase court costs for foreclosure cases from $300 to as much as $1,900.

The state “should have done more,” said state Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, a Democrat running for governor.

Sink pointed to the state Financial Regulation Office’s failure to regulate mortgage lenders, a problem that allowed thousands of people with criminal records into the industry. The office’s chief resigned in August after the problems were first reported by The Miami Herald, but a replacement still has not been hired.

Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican also running for governor, called the foreclosure crisis a “very tough issue” that his office has tried to address by cracking down on fraud. But he said options for helping homeowners are limited.

“It is not something you can pump money out to avoid foreclosures,” he said. “We don’t have the resources to do that. There is no bailout in the state of Florida.”

Gov. Charlie Crist noted the rise in foreclosures in his State of the State speeches in 2008 and this year. But he has never included any specific foreclosure-related bills among his legislative priorities.

“We want to do all we can to help people,” Crist said when asked about the state’s responsibility to address foreclosures. “It’s a tough time right now.”

Crist pushed banks to halt foreclosures during the holidays last year and ultimately settled on a voluntary moratorium. Crist’s press office could not verify whether any banks participated.

Crist also named a foreclosure task force in February 2008, including elected officials and people from the banking and real estate industries. But the panel put out a report with just one recommendation to the legislature: to increase protections for people with subprime loans.

Lawmakers did not adopt it.

“There is just not an inclination to give the light of day to any of these foreclosure remedies,” said Rep. Darren Soto, D-Orlando, whose “Foreclosure Bill of Rights” would have delayed payments for many homeowners.

McCollum, who created a Mortgage Fraud Task Force in 2007, said homeowners facing foreclosure need to be more pro-active with their lenders. “In many cases the lender can and will work this out,” he said.

Several states, including Ohio and New Jersey, have implemented aggressive programs to require mediation between bankers and lenders. In Florida, two Leon County circuit judges made a proposal in December to the state’s 20 chief judges to create similar mediation programs.

Three of the state’s 20 judicial circuits have enlisted the nonprofit Collins Center for Public Policy to offer mediation.

The first such program arose in the Treasure Coast’s 19th Circuit, where borrowers and lenders are required to meet before their first court appearance. In the past month, 22 of the first 31 mediated foreclosure cases in the circuit were settled with renegotiated loans.

In Palm Beach County, Chief Circuit Judge Kathleen Kroll signed an order to require banks to consider revising a loan at the homeowner’s request. The court receives an average of 500 new foreclosures each week.

Last week, the courts in Palm Beach County began a service to make attorneys and law school interns available to walk homeowners through the paperwork. On Thursday, the first day the information sessions were available, 26 of 142 eligible homeowners attended.

“We want to at least have some contact with these people so they’re not deer in headlights,” said Palm Beach County court general counsel Amy Borman. “We want to help.”

Comment by palmetto
2009-06-14 13:53:43

Ah, yes, Good Time Charlie Crist and Bill “Deer in the Headlights” McCollum. Two of the do-nothingest politicians I’ve ever seen, although maybe that’s a good things.

Anyone ever seen Good Time Charlie answering questions from the press on the teevee? What a joke. He gives a vicious smile like he’d rather spit on the questioner than answer them, and the answer is always drippingly condescending, as he turns his head away to focus on some crony next to or behind him and then turns back, “Oh, excuse me, did you ask me something?”

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 15:51:25

“There is just not an inclination to give the light of day to any of these foreclosure remedies,” said Rep. Darren Soto, D-Orlando, whose “Foreclosure Bill of Rights” would have delayed payments for many homeowners.

I wish Darren Sotto would delay payments for many renters.

 
 
 
Comment by Jerry
2009-06-14 12:55:00

As if homeowners didn’t have enough to worry about, now the SFgate is reporting that those granite counter tops can be as radioactive as uranium ore! Something to keep in mind if you buy a foreclosure…

San Carlos homemaker removes radioactive granite
Posted 6/7/2009 4:48 PM PDT

Granite countertops are durable, beautiful, and trendy. However, some granite contains as much uranium as commercial uranium ore, and those granites are radioactive. The Jupurana Bordeaux granite in Cathy Woods San Carlos kitchen emitted more gamma radiation than she wanted in her home. Her granite also emitted enough radon gas to triple the radon concentration in her kitchen.

When Cathy learned that her granite was radioactive, she assumed the East Bay showroom that sold her the stone would immediately offer replacement countertops and remove any radioactive granite from their showroom. However, their reaction bordered on hostile. They initially insisted that she had not purchased the problem stone from them. When I called the showroom in the guise of a customer, they told me their granite was no more radioactive than soil or water.
The following Saturday, I discretely took gamma readings on granite in the showroom. Their newest shipment of Jupurana Bordeaux was even more radioactive than Cathy’s countertops. A person in close contact with the new granite for an hour a day would exceed the recommended limit on radiation exposure in less than 2 months.
Cathy challenged the showroom’s owner about the ethics of selling radioactive granite. She pointed out that young children or pregnant women might be exposed to gamma radiation without their knowledge. She reminded him that breathing radon gas is the leading cause of lung cancer in non-smokers.

The showroom owner showed no remorse for selling radioactive materials to unsuspecting families. He proclaimed loudly that he was not doing anything illegal. He has a right to do business. Besides, what did she expect him to do with the large shipment of Jupurana Bordeaux that he just received?

After several discussions with the showroom, Cathy negotiated a discount on replacement granite that was not radioactive. However, she had to bare the cost of a second fabrication, and her cabinets were scratched when the radioactive granite was removed. The fabricator was less meticulous on the replacement granite, and she was less pleased with the new installation.

Comment by palmetto
2009-06-14 13:48:44

Sheesh, between radioactive granite and the sulfur based Chinese drywall combined with illegal immigrant construction work, homes are not castles, but hazardous prisons.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-14 14:33:16

Ouch! My apartment’s counters look granite-like. But they are brownish, so maybe it’s fake granite. The “hardwood” flooring is fake hardwood flooring.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-14 20:19:40

“Granite countertops are durable, beautiful, and trendy. However, some granite contains as much uranium as commercial uranium ore, and those granites are radioactive”

Chinese drywall and North Korean countertops installed by an illegal alien at a price you won`t believe.

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Comment by combotechie
2009-06-14 13:52:51

Glow-in-the-dark counter tops that double as night-lights?

Comment by combotechie
2009-06-14 13:55:24

Fortify your counter top with U-235, sit you food on it and it’ll keep it warm.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 13:59:12

new - built-in microwave / countertop combo

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Comment by mikey
2009-06-14 14:35:38

You DON’T need a microware…Nuke the pizza on the counter tops :)

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 16:18:16

Right !

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 16:25:49

I have granite in my new rental. I wonder if I can get a free sterilization by simply resting my….junk….on the counter top. Might have to give that a shot…

 
 
 
 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2009-06-14 14:33:21

Granite counter tops need to be taxed to help offset the health problems they will cause.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-06-14 14:47:56

Now that she got the countertops all squared-away what to do about the chinese drywall?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-14 21:58:13

That article Exposed the bad granite over 2 yrs ago. harumph.
So, it is just now getting more exposed?

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-06-14 14:11:27

The Brownshirters appear in Albany, NY on Thursday, to prevent any opposition to the ObamaNation. President ObamACORN, where are you?:

Obama’s ACORN Brownshirt Mobs Assault NY Senator

Sturmabteilung

That’s a German word that has little resonance in America today. Few remember what the German militia Brownshirts, of the Nazi Party, were outside of the stereotypical use of the term to describe someone who they think is intolerant. Even fewer remember the tactics and purpose Brownshirts served in establishing totalitarian power in a collapsing republic in Germany in the 1920s.

They were the original uniformed thugs Hitler used to organize demonstrations and engender support for the National Socialists and their plans to nationalize the economy and implement a new kind of governance: fascism. Eventually they became street brawlers who dealt with any political opposition to the Nazi ideology. They threatened, intimidated, and assaulted and murdered those who opposed the “change” Hitler was bringing to Germany.

The similarities between Hitler’s Brownshirts and Obama’s use of ACORN is astounding. Like the Brownshirts of Nazi Germany, ACORN serves to rabble-rouse, intimidate, threaten and bully the political opposition to Obama and the Politburo Democrats that are solidifying their control of the country. In Germany, the Brownshirts were sent to voting places to intimidate and beast up anyone they suspected of not supporting the Nazis. During the election, not only was ACORN charged with intimidation and fraud in some states, a widely seen Youtube video showcased Obama supporting New Black Panthers dressed up in military fatigues carrying nightsticks to intimidate the voters.
The Brownshirts did the same thing in Germany, and were often pardoned for murders they engaged in – same as Obama’s Justice department pardoned the thugs intimidating voters in Philadelphia.

History repeats itself in a fashion that should send alarm bells off in the heads of any American that has any modicum of understanding about liberty and history. On Thursday, Obama’s ACORN Brownshirts stormed the NY capitol, and assaulted State Republican Senator James Alesi, and spitting in the face of his chief of staff.

A mob of 150 ACORN mobsters stormed the capitol in Albany NY to “protest” and prevent the transfer of power from Democrats to Republicans due to the caucusing of two dissident Democrat Senators with the Republicans, which effectively gives the GOP control of the NY State Senate when certified. As a result of the two Democrats switching “sides” as it were – the ACORN rent-a-mob was dispatched to storm the capitol and intimidate the Senators.

Does anyone remember a mob of Republicans storming the Senate to intimidate Democrats when Arlen Specter or Jim Jeffords jumped to their side? Anyone recall a crush of mobs with pre-printed signs with political talking points accusing them of engaging in a coup de tat??

I didn’t think so. But here – there is zero tolerance for disloyalty to the nazi- er…Democrat Politburo. The State Senate in NY is now shut to prevent the orderly transfer of power as Majority Democrats have closed the chamber to prevent the transfer of power.

Comment by Blano
2009-06-14 19:42:54

When are y’all going to finally understand that this is business as usual for the crazy left???? It’s just easier to get away with now that one of their own is in the WH.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-14 21:59:20

Blano, all that hate in one person. sighh

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-06-15 04:17:04

Obama urges doctors to back his health care plans ( Or Else)June 15, 2009 6:49 AM ET advertisement

All Associated Press newsWASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama, continuing to barnstorm for his health care proposals, will urge doctors gathered in Chicago to support wider insurance coverage and targeted federal spending cuts.

urge?

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 14:11:51

Want to see the frog that joined me last night while I was sitting on the deck reading?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26352634@N05/3625819274/in/set-72157619648353561/

Comment by drumminj
2009-06-14 20:07:51

Hah, my dog picked one of those up in her mouth shortly before I moved. Just held it in there, drooling like a fool (presumably due to the toxin on the frog/toad’s skin, and the fact the animal appeared to be moving around in there). I refused to let her in the house in that state…she spit the thing out at some point and I saw it hop away - unhurt as far as I could tell.

Those ferocious pitbulls. I tell ya.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-14 23:34:06

Frogs are good luck!

In the future you’ll overhear many juicy private cell phone conversations from the attractive woman sitting next to you on the train.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-14 14:37:32

I mean “microwave”..sheesh..I need some more strawberry shortcake over here !

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-06-14 16:43:50

homegrown strawberries?

Comment by yensoy
2009-06-14 20:02:51

homegrown strawberry pickers?

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-06-14 17:16:40

For your entertainment pleasure to night. :lol:

“Obama Drastically Scales Back Goals For America After Visiting Denny’s”

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_drastically_scales_back

 
Comment by waitinginPA
2009-06-14 18:41:02

Hi guys…I haven’t posted frequently, but I have been a fan of the blog for the past few years. We just started going to open houses here in the suburbs of Philly and we found something that looks reasonably priced and we are thinking of moving forward. Only one problem, we have no idea where to start. We haven’t been pre approved in the last few years and don’t know how to find a good lender or good real estate lawyer. We have excellent credit scores and more than sufficient cash for the 20% down payment. We are going to take our time and if the house doesn’t sell while we are getting our ducks in a row, we will probably put in an offer.

Thanks in advance.

 
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