June 26, 2009

The Fun Is Just Beginning

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Joshua Hamann jokingly compares himself to the last human in a city overrun by zombies. He’s not suggesting his neighbors are zombies. The problem is, he has no neighbors.Hamann occupies one of only about 50 sold condos in his 49-story tower, out of 409 units. A couple miles north at Midtown Miami, Alisha Marks knows the same feeling. ‘It was pretty much a ghost town when I got here,’ she says.”

“On a recent Friday morning, Hamann encountered exactly three people over the course of several hours — two security guards, and a concierge. ‘This is how it goes every day,’ Hamann said, adding that he interacted with more neighbors growing up in rural Kentucky, where farms were spaced a mile apart.”

“Chris Cooley bought a 19th-century farmhouse last year on nearly 11 acres in Williamson County that was going to be his dream home. He hired Chris Parker, a custom homebuilder in Nashville, to preserve the look of the old house. Now, Cooley wishes he had put off his dream a bit longer. His appraisal for the construction loan for the remodel project came back saying the house will be worth less than what the work will cost. And his financial institution, Reliant Bank, wanted him to pay the difference.”

“‘It definitely has been possibly the worst timing ever,’ Cooley said, adding that he is worried about being able to sell his existing home in Franklin.”

“Jim Tew, senior vice president over mortgages in Tennessee for Fifth Third Bank, said it’s not uncommon to reappraise homebuilders’ properties. He said bank regulators are encouraging banks to re-evaluate the values and collateral positions of their loan portfolios. ‘What we have found is the value isn’t there,’ Tew said. ‘When we try to sell it, we’re stuck with a value problem.’”

“Appraisals that overvalued homes — often at the urging of lenders looking to close deals — were one factor in the housing bubble that popped last year. In response, lenders have gotten more picky about the criteria appraisers use to back up the values they assign to home. Before, there was some “wiggle room” in such cases, said Steve Stiloski, the president of the Wisconsin Chapter of the Appraisal Institute. Now, ‘there is no putting a square peg in a round hole.’”

“William Malkasian, president of the Wisconsin Realtors Association, said efforts to tighten the mortgage industry have ‘gone absurdly too far.’ Rules like those for appraisals and for measuring a borrower’s credit worthiness are being implemented nationally, he said, but ‘real estate is local’ and Wisconsin is different from California and Florida, for instance.”

“Massachusetts housing prices continued to fall at a double-digit rate last month as foreclosure sales put downward pressure on the market, according to new data released today by Warren Group. ‘Prices are still declining,’ said Timothy M. Warren Jr., CEO of Warren Group, and sales volume won’t increase significantly ‘unless the employment outlook improves dramatically and the tight mortgage lending standards are loosened.”’

“Valerie McGillivray, president of the greater Newburyport Association of Realtors, says the problem with the Warren Report figures is that they are average numbers for the state as a whole. McGillivray says in the cities the market is tough. ‘The big cities are faced with hundreds and hundreds of foreclosures,’ she says.”

“‘Prices are at an all-time low,’ she says. ‘There are some great deals in Amesbury and some really great deals in Newburyport.’”

“Charles McMillan, who this year is leading the 1.1 million-member National Association of Realtors, returned to his home turf Friday to speak to the Dallas-Fort Worth Chapter of the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals. McMillan spoke with the Star-Telegram following his address.”

“As the housing market was going bad, was there anything that real estate agents could have done back then to help?”

“Neither the real estate industry nor its allied folks and regulators knew the huge tsunami that was about to hit us. One of the things we did, and do, as Realtors, is we would bring to the attention of authorities when we saw abuses going on at the closing table; fraud going on at the closing table. As far as us forecasting and foreseeing the great decline, we did not, nor should we be faulted for it.”

“Alma and Adolfo Vasquez might not appear to be prime candidates for foreclosure. Their 3,100-square-foot home near two golf courses is appraised at nearly half a million dollars. They were far from irresponsible buyers, making a 20 percent down payment after selling their California home in 2006, just before the housing bubble burst.”

“But by early April, the Vasquez family, slammed by a double whammy of rising property taxes and tough times for Adolfo’s home-renovation business, were three days from losing their home at a foreclosure auction. ‘It’s an emotional torture,’ Alma Vasquez said. ‘We never thought we could end up in this situation, but it happened. It’s kind of embarrassing; you don’t want to let your friends or anyone know.’”

“Another reason might be an influx of out-of-town investors from places like California, who scooped up hundreds of properties in upscale subdivisions. Now they’re having a hard time keeping up with mortgage payments, according to experts in Central Texas. ‘Steiner Ranch was the place,’ said Kelly Diamond, who moved there with her husband from California in 2005, when she says builders were offering all manner of incentives to lure buyers.’”

“‘People came in eager to get the incentives, and they ended up getting in over their heads,’ said Diamond, who lives on a block near three homes listed for foreclosure. ‘They were not in a place that if something happened they could stay in this neighborhood. There was no room for error.’”

“During the big housing boom a couple of years back, I can remember driving through the El Centro area and seeing all the new homes sprouting on once-vacant land. It was impressive, but I couldn’t understand where all those new home buyers were coming from since El Centro is smaller in population than Yuma. I was eventually told that buyers were being drawn to El Centro by the relatively low cost of housing there in comparison to other California cities.”

“Some of the new homes were being bought by people who - believe it or not - commuted to San Diego and other distant cities. Other buyers were simply speculators. They were grabbing up what they considered ‘cheap’ homes on easy credit terms in the expectation they would quickly appreciate in the booming housing market and then they could sell them for a big profit or rent them out for income.”

“One in 10 families faces home foreclosure there, and Mayor Ben Solomon thinks even worse is to come. In addition to the loss of homes, the article noted that El Centro has the highest unemployment rate of any metropolitan area in the nation at over 26 percent.”

“Day in and day out since 2007, callers who struggle with mortgages throughout the Sacramento region, those who can’t sleep for worrying, who want to stay with houses that have lost $150,000 in value, have phoned Home Front to fret and express a common sentiment. ‘My lender,’ they say, is ‘difficult.’”

“Callers complain about long waits, bureaucratic snafus and a sense of not being helped. These calls have kept coming through every government program unveiled to help borrowers, despite every statistical release saying more loans are being modified.”

“Now, as the state has unveiled a law making lenders prove they have comprehensive loan-modification programs, a new round of callers have weighed in with their problems. Two told of modifications that raised their monthly payments instead of lowering them. One, regretfully, paid $3,800 up front to a loan modification company for that outcome. Another, sheepishly, told how a new-home sales agent told him – in 2007, no less – that his house would appreciate enough to refinance the adjustable-rate loan now taking him under.”

“There’s been a lot of talk about how lax lending standards helped blow up the housing bubble. Talk about short memories and logic disconnects, though; apparently Massachusetts Congressman Barney Frank and New York Representative Anthony Weiner are trying to pressure Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to lighten up a little and relax condo lending practices. Um … I think we’ve seen this disaster flick before.”

“Given the nature of the beast we’ve created, banks need to be a lot more prudent about who they lend to. Otherwise, we’ll end up right back in the danger zone. But the word on the desire to lower some standards hints that forces at work may tempt us all back into the same black hole.”

“Recent reminders that often-quoted economist Paul Krugman was OK with the ’solution’ to the previous recession that led to the housing bubble, and that Fannie and Freddie were both major parts of our disaster and were highly regulated, political entities can make you question some of the assumptions right now. And of course, Barney Frank was a force in some of the loose mortgage lending practices to begin with; the quote going around at the moment is how he said Fannie and Freddie should ‘roll the dice’ for ‘affordable’ housing back when the housing bubble was starting to take on some air.”

“President Barack Obama’s proposal for a regulatory overhaul of the financial industry vastly expands the reach of the Federal Reserve, yet fails to make policy-makers more accountable for their actions. Critics argue that the new legislation fundamentally misses the problems that led to the financial crisis. It was a lack of enforcement by supervisors, they say, not insufficient rules, that fostered a cowboy culture of rampant risk-taking on Wall Street.”

“‘Obama is letting the Fed and everyone else off the hook by saying that the problem was with the regulations and not the regulators,’ said Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic Policy Research in Washington.”

“‘If regulators know that even if they totally fail on the job, they will face no career consequences, then at some future point, when there is a choice between confronting the financial industry or just going along, the regulators will just go along,’ said Baker.”

“Some feel uncomfortable with a broader role for the Fed primarily because of the Fed’s closeness to the banking sector. The Fed is not technically a public entity. Each of the Fed’s 12 branches are overseen by a nine-member board of directors, two-thirds of whom are elected by the bankers in the district.”

“‘The Federal Reserve has massive conflicts of interest that make it ill-suited for its present regulatory functions and certainly for an expanded regulatory reach,’ said Robert Auerbach, a professor of public affairs at the University of Texas at Austin. ‘The officials leading the Fed today preside over an organization that is run in substantial part by the bankers they regulate.’”

“Central bankers largely ignored mounting evidence of fraud in the housing arena and touted the benefits of ‘financial innovations’ such as derivatives instruments — the very securities that would bring the banking system to its knees. Baker, who long warned of a looming housing crisis, said the central bank’s meek reaction was a primary cause of the crisis: ‘The Fed had all the authority it needed to burst the housing bubble and prevent this disaster. They opted not to do it. This was a disastrous failure.’”

“Merced, situated in Central California’s San Joaquin Valley, is an extreme example of what’s happening across the country. As the economy tanks, foreclosures are soaring. Roughly one out of four subprime mortgages nationally is in trouble. Even so-called prime borrowers, who had good credit when they got their loans, now are having trouble keeping up; about 5% of these loans are in foreclosure, up from less than 1% in 2007, according to the Mortgage Bankers Assn. Rates are even higher in cities like Merced, Fort Myers, Fla., and Bakersfield, Calif., where the bust has been brutal.”

“The housing crisis is creating ghost towns of once-bustling communities like Merced. In largely abandoned neighborhoods, paved sidewalks and driveways lead to empty lots strewn with utility coils. Unfinished frames with rotting rafters and rusted hinges sit alongside occupied homes. Roughly 40% of the homes in Merced are considered distressed.”

“The University of California announced in 2001 that it would open its first new campus in more than 40 years on 84 acres in northern Merced. In anticipation of the potential demand, builders flocked to the area, and real estate investors bid up prices. But they were overly optimistic. Now the market lies in ruins, as unemployment tops 20%. Says Janet Young, assistant chancellor at UC Merced, which opened in 2005: ‘The housing boom was a huge surprise to us.’”

“The housing market has suffered a ‘massive shock’ and faces a difficult recovery in the face of job losses, foreclosures and tight credit, according to Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies. The national homeownership rate has dropped to 67.3 percent, erasing all the gains since 2000. As of March, more than 14 million households owned homes that were worth less than their mortgages. Close to 4 million households have entered foreclosure since 2007.”

“Builders have reduced home construction to 60-year lows. But demand remains extremely low; it’s as if builders saw ‘two out of every three customers disappear,’ said Eric Belsky, executive director of the housing center.”

“The good news is that the bursting of the housing bubble has made real estate more affordable.”

“In the wake of a housing market melt down, many companies have had to diversify and reorganize to keep from going down. Advantage Homes, the largest retailed of manufactured homes in California has always specialized in mini-mansions and high-end vacation homes, until now.”

“The most inexpensive house with delivery is $43,642, with models up to $69,975. The switch to entry-level homes, and a decrease of the large up-scale home is market driven, said factory sales manager Eric Homan. People aren’t buying large houses right now and they want to keep Silvercrest buzzing. Advantage Homes president Thomas DaRosa said, ‘In order to keep my people working we needed to develop a product everyone could afford.’”

“Two friends of mine just moved back to Chicago from Philadelphia. I’m…jealous of the limitless possibilities that lay before them. They’ve got a six-month lease on an apartment in the city, and plan to find a new single-family home by New Year’s. So they’re just starting their second home-buying process. They’re dealing with real estate agents. They’re sifting through endless online listings. They’re coping with the financial headaches. They’re living with the relentless stress.”

“And I’m jealous. Really, I miss it. I miss the thrill of the chase. The excitement. Even the agita.”

“Our house hunt was short — the first house I liked was the one we wound up buying. All told, it took a little more than a month from the time we started thinking about buying a house until we were under contract. We visited fewer than 10 houses. But it was fun.”

“Come take a look at our TiVo ‘Now Playing’ list. I have season passes for HGTV’s ‘House Hunters,’ ‘Property Virgins,’ and ‘My First Place,’ as well as TLC’s Jon-and-Kate-free ‘My First Home.’ And I still watch them. A lot. It doesn’t even matter that I can’t stand the walking clichés that populate these shows — the family that sneers at gorgeous $250,000 homes despite a $25,000 salary and no pre-approval; the couple who invariably makes the ‘this airplane-hangar-sized walk-in closet might be enough for only the woman’s clothes’ joke; the gullible homebuyer who actually believes the real estate agent when told he or she should make an initial offer at asking price or higher.’

“I can’t stand these people. Yet I live vicariously through them, because I sometimes wish I were in their shoes.”

“Don’t get me wrong. I love our house…But that doesn’t mean I don’t wonder what could have been had we waited. We thought the housing market was hitting rock-bottom back then, that prices were as low as they would be, that a ‘dead-cat bounce’ was inevitable. Now? Heck, maybe we could have bought our house (or a bigger one, a newer one, a better one) for a $20 bill and a few coupons for half-price appetizers at Bennigan’s. Who knows?”

“That’s what my Philadelphia refugees are facing. The future is wide open. The possibilities are endless. The fun is just beginning. Then again, I just spent two hours helping to haul couches, loveseats and boxes of books into their new digs. And then I remembered — with house-hunting comes moving. So, um, never mind. I’m happy where I am.”




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172 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-06-26 10:21:15

What a week! If all goes as planned, tomorrow will see the first HBB guest post. It will be a different format and subject matter from what I’ve done over the years, so please stop by and check it out.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-06-26 12:01:39

Can you give us a hint who will be the first guest post?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 12:11:50

Michael Jackson will be the guest blogger. It will be titled “Real Estate Values in Hell : They aren’t making any more Brimstone!”

Comment by jbw
2009-06-26 14:22:12

Too soon? I tried to catch BBC world news last night, but it looked like the whole thing was a tribute to Jackson so I turned it off in disgust. How is the death of a washed-up 80’s pop star breaking world news?

Ask Obama to contribute a post from his Blackberry.

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Comment by rellimgerg
2009-06-26 23:34:01

Your denial of his impact on humanity disgusts me.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-26 12:16:28

Sean Snaith!

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 12:29:33

Olygal, I hope……..

If we’re lucky, we’ll get to read about the Woodland Fairy Princess of the PNW, putting on her black leather Gestapo interrogator suit, and goes out to flog Mozilo and the other criminals with some kind of ugly Geoduck clam, while singing Motown girl group songs

“I Vill teech you ze meaningk of ze vord “R-E-S-P-E-C-T”…….”

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 12:32:44

“Green Flats of Lubyanka…….The Musical”

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Comment by ACH
2009-06-26 12:39:20

OOooooo! Can I watch?

Roidy

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Comment by Muggy
2009-06-26 13:17:35

“some kind of ugly Geoduck clam”

We really need to abandon the geoduck meme. The other day I was eating a salad and bit something suspiciously crunchy. The image of a geoduck popped into my head and I nearly vom’d.

Help me out here, people.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 13:48:59

It wasn’t necessarily a geoduck. It could have been a palmetto bug!

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2009-06-26 17:08:58

I always imagined geoducks were kinda…gooey?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 17:26:28

I always imagined geoducks were kinda…gooey?

Nope. The word comes from a Nisqually Indian word meaning ‘Digs deep’. They do, too. You gotta shovel like the digginest dog or else they get away, and then you’re faced with the reality that a clam can outwit, or at least outdig, an evolved primate with a shovel. Boy, that always makes me mad.

They taste…well, they taste like a geoduck. Sweet, and clammish, and a bit crunchy, but in a good way, not a surprise palmetto-bug way.

 
Comment by Müggy
2009-06-26 17:35:42

“Sweet, and clammish, and a bit crunchy”

Lord, make it stop.

Still waitin’ for the barf gif, Ben.

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 17:51:01

“….outdig an evolved primate….”

Three words…….”Power posthole digger”

But really, I’m with Muggy. Enough of the Geoducks.

If you put one of those on a plate out here in Cowboy Country, people would throw it on the floor and kick the s##t out of it, thinking it was something that slithered onto the plate and ate the REAL food. :)

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-06-26 18:33:33

You bored over there, Muggy, just playing with your name? Muuuuuuuugie?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 18:39:14

You bored over there, Muggy, just playing with your name? Muuuuuuuugie?

No, he’s just become exciting and dynamic and German now.
:)

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-06-26 21:18:42

You bored over there, Muggy, just playing with your name? Muuuuuuuugie?

Yar, what’s with the umlauts?

Is hair metal makin’ a comeback?

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 15:02:03

:lol:
What vision and style you exhibits, XGSy!
Man, I would love to flog the crap out of the Orange Freak! And any number of others! In fact, the list of those I DON’T want to flog is shorter than the list of those I do. :)

But I would certainly not waste a precious and tasty geoduck on that nasty fellow. Heavens, no. I’d just use a regular ol’ 2 x 4, and let the geoduck watch while I trampled him with my pointy black boots.

*pauses for a brief moment of enjoyable fantasy *

…Now, Muggy, don’t be such a hater. Geoducks are GREAT! Love the giant funny-looking clam, man!
Sadly, this morning I ate the one I dug up to mail to ATE, because he hasn’t been around to say how he wants it and I didn’t want to waste it. So, ATE, if you’re still out there you must let me know because the minus tides won’t last much longer and after that I can’t reach ‘em.
Or maybe yooooooo’d like one, Muggy? *stifled giggle *

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 15:24:38

Oly, I said it once, and I’ll say it again…

I wanna geo-duck!!!

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 16:05:34

“the Woodland Fairy Princess of the PNW, putting on her black leather Gestapo interrogator suit,…”

Herr trying to imagine Olygal in leather, fishnets and heels prancing around the PNW in the rain. Horribly tangled UP UP a fishnet, I can see, the rest…The Horror…the Horror !

;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 16:15:44

It’s not raining here, Mr. Man, so there, and it’s too warm for leather. Today is gloriously sunny, with high puffy clouds, and golden gleams shining down through the giant trees onto the nice plush moss just like in a fanciful movie, one with elves and unicorns and maidens in it.
THIS is the sort of day that makes visiting Californians instantly decide to move here, so they do, and then in a while the rain starts up and it rains and rains and rains and rains and the Californian complains and complains and complains….a cycle that appears to be breaking down lately, since the visiting Californians can’t sell their houses anymore…

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!
*falls off chair laughing and whooping with joy *

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 16:30:22

Oly, is it just me, or do you think it is kind of weird I wrote the song “Beat It” that MJ thought of, but didn’t write, immediately prior to his demise?

P.S. Go ahead and NOT send me a geo-duck! :( (:…

“Confused again, about everything this time…

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 16:42:40

Too bad I ate it then, huh ATE?
Naahh, I’m teasing. I’ll go dig you out another one. It’s fun! But where do I send it?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 16:43:51

Oly, is it just me, or do you think it is kind of weird I wrote the song “Beat It” that MJ thought of, but didn’t write, immediately prior to his demise?

Hmmm. I had not noticed that until you pointed it out. How about you don’t sing anymore songs, huh?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 16:46:18

How about you don’t sing anymore songs, huh?

Unless there’s one about developers! Or Mozilo! Or BofA, or Chitibank! Then sing THAT one! Sing it a million times! Let’s see what happens!

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 16:56:59

“Today is gloriously sunny, with high puffy clouds, and golden gleams shining down through the giant trees..”

Had remarkable clouds go by just like your discription the other day, they looked like they were 3D and they were so bight in parts, that they looked like they had been washed in Tide…with bleach.

Sings ” Summertime”
:)

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 16:58:17

Oly, keep your (my) geo-duck.

Don’t want one “no mas” (Roberto Duran v Ray Leonard, September 13, 1983).

“Pouts impestuously with thought of loss of potential geo-duck “.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 17:02:08

That sounds cool Mikey, bet they were neat.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 17:05:43

Sings ” Summertime”

What a good idea!

*joins the chorus loudly and prettily* *

*Okay, not prettily. That part was a lie. :)

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 17:09:31

Oly! Since I am moving to parts unknown in the near future, I got it!!

Send me a “Metaphysical Geo-Duck!!” No postage required, but not quite SASE…

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-26 17:16:06

How about “June is Busting Out All Over” from Rogers & Hammerstein’s one and only film noir musical, Carousel?

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 17:20:57

I didn’t know June was that hot.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-06-26 21:27:08

Oly, if leather is to hot, how about pleather, or skin tight latex?

It is around 112 today.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-06-26 10:25:38

“‘If regulators know that even if they totally fail on the job, they will face no career consequences, then at some future point, when there is a choice between confronting the financial industry or just going along, the regulators will just go along,’ said Baker.”

Take it from someone who knows someone who knows: back in the bubble regulators had to be concerned concerned abou the career consequences of confronting the financial industry.

Which is why you got more attempts to regulate out of the Fed, which provided some insulation from politicians accusing regulators of stifling the free market and homeownership, than the competing regulatory agencies.

Did the firms looking to get around rules choose regulation by the Fed, or some other agency, in the Wild West says? Someone should study the direction of the charter flips.

And what happened when the regulators all got together (a process that took a very long time) and tried to get regional banks to stop putting so much of their money into construction lending? The banks’ lobbyists went running to Congress, which squashed it in bi-partisan fashion– just as it squashed FASB when it wanted to crack down on stock options in the dot.com heist.

Amnesia is a politicans best friend.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-06-26 10:25:48

“Congressman Barney Frank and New York Representative Anthony Weiner are trying to pressure Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to lighten up a little and relax condo lending practices. Um … I think we’ve seen this disaster flick before.”

Slobbering Barney and the rest of the mob need to be brought up on charges. Won’t happen, I know, but the ’system’ is coming apart at the seams and these people keep on perpetrating the same scam, over and over.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-06-26 10:33:17

I think ol’ Barn-Barn should be registered as a deadly weapon.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-26 11:10:28

I suppose those two guys are going to try to pass new legislation, which surely be titled the “Frank-Weiner Bill”. ;)

Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 11:25:23

DennisN,

LOL! Oh, someone wanted to compliment you on your wonderful chicken recipe the other day! Personally, I usually just grab the slowest one, wring it’s neck and throw it on the fire.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 12:14:14

That works for Soylent Green, too! The slowest are found at the daycare facilities… both elder and younger…

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Comment by DennisN
2009-06-26 16:29:21

Yeah I saw Dr. Whatsit’s post but was too sleepy to reply. I’m not sure if my original post qualified as a formal “recipe” but was more of an outline of my simplified chicken Marsala. Too many recipes are needlessly complicated and people give up and eat too much unhealthy prepared/restaurant/fast food.

I’m waiting for OlyGal’s take on geoduck Marsala with shredded onions, garlic, and wild mushrooms. Actually I’d bet geoduck would go good in an Italian red clam sauce. On my first trip to Norwalk CT I was astonished to be served linguine in red clam sauce with whole clams still in the shell. Looked like the cook dumped a bucket of steamers over a plate of spagetti. ;) Very good but messy eating.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 17:20:24

I’m waiting for OlyGal’s take on geoduck Marsala with shredded onions, garlic, and wild mushrooms.

What a super idea!
But now I think you should repost your chicken marsala notions for those of us who missed it the first time.

I love the little clams in pasta, and to me the mess and the slurping is part of the fun. As long as I don’t have to clean up. :)
A few months ago I kayaked out to an oyster barge that was anchored down the way, just to look at it up close, and I beheld that there were big clusters of mussels hanging off the bottom of the boat. Opportunity! Being so nice and low in my kayak I was able to reach over and yank a bunch off, so I did, and chucked them in the bottom between my feet and then paddled away, visions of gluttony dancing in my head.
Oh, you know what? In clusters of mussels it would seem that there’s usually a big long red wormy-looking creature with little wiggley bits hanging off it, and these come squirming out cold and ticklishly onto your ankles when they sense a disturbance in their mussel home. When that happens don’t scream wildly and beat your oars on your kayak and thrash around—that ends badly.
Who knew? But make a note of it, ’cause it’s a dramatic sort of event.

….Anyway, back to the subject, I made a sort of pasta dish with tomatoes and garlic and some greens I found in the yard, and dumped in the mussels and then dashed out onto the back deck and sat there with the rain drumming down on the deck roof and ate the steamy warm noodles and slurped out the tasty mussel innards. I flicked the slurped-out shells off the deck and into the garden beds. It was super, it was HEAVEN, although I did have to hose both me and the deck down after that.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 17:39:37

“and to me the mess and the slurping is part of the fun”.

That’s what she said…

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 17:43:30

Great Olygal …kepp right on torturing ME knowing that I love seafoods and shellfish !

You can only take so many plain old simple fare Wisconsin Friday night fish fries before wanting some varity…Ugh!

:(

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-06-26 17:44:27

Gotta 9 p.m softball game, night everyone!!

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 17:47:31

oops..sorry bout the spelling…munching an elaborate roast beef n’ swiss sandwich and doing a beer while trying to type.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 18:12:57

Nite ATE-UP….take care.

I swam over 1,200 yds today. I taking 2 aspirin, another cold beer and then I’m gonna crawll over in a corner and quietly die.
;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 18:13:36

Great Olygal …kepp right on torturing ME knowing that I love seafoods and shellfish !

Oh, I didn’t know that. But I shall keep it in mind, in a sneaky sort of way, when I discuss shucking oysters on the beach and how much fun that is*.
My ultimate goal is that many HBBers come to live here, because then I won’t have to post, I’ll just walk down the street or go to town to converse, in the meat, so to speak.

*Shucking isn’t fun, actually. I’ve had to grow back three or four fingers in the last year. I prefer to steam them open, on a tin pot wedged over a little driftwood bonfire while the waves splash in…(How was that for tempting?) :)

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 18:23:30

I ate 2 buckets of raw oysters and 1 of steamed one night in Lakeland, Fl. God, were they ever GOOD. It must have been the rain…or maybe the beer.

Keep shucking and teasing me girl and I’ll be coming with a pillow…. to smother you !
;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 18:28:50

:lol:

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 18:36:37

Chuckling and quietly plotting my revenge here Oly !
:)

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-06-26 19:15:12

Olygirl, have you ever tried Nettle soup ? No, not Nestles, it’s Nettle. You know, the ones with the little stingers?

 
 
 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-06-26 11:58:11

I read that bit about Barney Frank wanting to relax the standards on Condo lending a couple of days ago.

I don’t think anyone is going to take him seriously on this. Condo ownership just doesn’t have the cache that home ownership does.

 
Comment by Jack McCabe
2009-06-26 14:14:27

My comments on CNBC last Monday Rep. Franks letter;

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1160630743&play=1

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-26 14:53:04

Good job, Jack. Maybe YOU are going to be our guest blogger?

Comment by palmetto
2009-06-26 15:00:14

I was thinking the same thing. One of my questions for Jack would be, how tough was it to consult RE investors during the bubble, knowing it would burst?

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Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 15:14:58

Jack,

Thanks for sharing that. Isn’t it true that at the height of the lunacy CountryWide had a software program called “Desktop Underwriter”? I’d heard that MB’s could simply continue to “tweak” the application until it DID get an approval!

Is that actually true?

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 16:18:23

Welcome Jack…my video isn’t playing on wifi but nice to have you here on Ben’s HBB
:)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-06-26 15:09:23

Are you the REAL McCabe? Super!
I always enjoy your remarks, which Ben often posts on the Florida threads. I especially admire how your words so often combine keen observation and sensibility with an invigorating and healthful light touch of brutality when you speak to or about fools.

Comment by palmetto
2009-06-26 15:32:04

Ahem. With all due respect, I do recall a post by Jack, early on, that was cautiously optimistic about the condo market. 2005, if memory serves. And I did give him a wee bit of a hard time about it, understanding that he consulted large scale condo investors. But, bygones. I respect anyone who can revise their opinion. Geez, hard to believe I’ve been on the blog for almost four years.

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Comment by Big V
2009-06-26 17:10:12

Maybe Palmy is the guest poster.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 17:17:46

IMHO, condo’s and the reidential/commerical RE and loans associated with them are like Vegas = The Black Plague and financial DEATH!

These massive “luxury” concrete thombs/apartment high rises will be like the last great Florida condo 80’s Bust only nationwide… a bad investment joke to some and a total disaster for others.

They can loosen loans, twist appraisals and dance to new software underwritting models and the MSM music jigs all that they want to but the condo plague is still the plague !

The mighty mikey …has spoken !
;)

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-26 16:15:28

My question would be why does cnbc hire the most clueless people who have no critical thinking skills?

Mind You i worked in Master control at Court TV all during the OJ trail….at least our interns and PAs were very bright some on the way to be a lawyer.

So why the low standards that caused cnbc to massively encourage mortgage fraud?

Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 18:05:42

“My question would be why does cnbc hire the most clueless people who have no critical thinking skills”

Right on…cnbc should be paying me those Big Bucks to do that stuff…I’m qualified in that deptment !
:)

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Comment by CA renter
2009-06-26 17:13:44

Jack,

Thank you for sharing that link.

What do you recommend as far as “stimulus” and “stemming the tide of foreclosures”?

Though many of us HBB’ers probably have a more brutal approach to the housing bubble, why not let lenders foreclose? Why should taxpayers have to subsidize housing, which ultimately makes housing **less** affordable, and prevents money from going into the real economy?

Comment by palmetto
2009-06-26 18:58:46

Sheesh, are we ever going to have egg on our faces when the guest blogger turns out to be Alan Greenspan.

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Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 19:13:22

lol Palmy :)

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-06-26 19:20:15

BWAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Good one, palmy… :-)

 
 
 
Comment by Zombie Banks
2009-06-26 20:14:37

cool website. san diego brotha.

 
 
 
Comment by marshall
2009-06-26 10:28:13

[quote]We thought the housing market was hitting rock-bottom back then, that prices were as low as they would be, that a ‘dead-cat bounce’ was inevitable. Now? Heck, maybe we could have bought our house (or a bigger one, a newer one, a better one) for a $20 bill and a few coupons for half-price appetizers at Bennigan’s. Who knows?”[/quote]

This is the exact problem with the whole housing bubble. These people, and those of their ilk, will never be satisfied. No matter how perfect the house, they will always be thinking “the grass is greener over there.”
Also, even if they have the money to afford house A, they will allow their dreams, ego, and greedy real estate agent to talk them into house B, which is too much. So it really doesn’t matter how much they make, they will always buy more house than they can afford.

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-26 14:56:00

In the case at hand, the Vasquez’s problem seems to have been a belief that his private home-renovation business would be an unending gravy train.

Comment by The_Overdog
2009-06-28 11:30:20

I disagree. The Vasquez’s problem was that he thought his home remodelling business was the reason for his success, rather than hitting blackjack a few times in the CA housing lottery.

What he didn’t realize was that, even though he got a much larger home in TX than his CA one for the same amount of money or perhaps a small trade up, the carrying costs for a home in Texas far outweigh the carrying costs for a home in CA for roughly the same amount of money.

He should have bought a home with comparable costs to his CA one, perhaps in the $250-$300 range, and he’d be doing ok.

 
 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 10:42:24

“Nobody could see it coming.” ……..the all-purpose fallback.

I guess the history books will call this “The Nobody Saw It Coming Recession/Depression”

Followed by the last chapter, “Too Stupid to Survive”.

Apologies for my crankiness. I’m getting really tired of hearing excuses from supposedly highly-educated (and definitely over-paid) so-called “experts” about how nobody could have forseen/predicted any of this.

At least out here in flyover country, all kinds of people were scratching their heads, wondering how people could afford all the $500K-$1M homes, the $50K SUVs, etc. Mostly, we were told that we weren’t smart enough, or motivated enough, to appreciate the “new rules”.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-26 11:20:14

We live in So Ca and wondered the same thing about our former neighbors in a swank McMansion development. While we saved and paid cash for everything, taking years, our yuppie (too cool pos) neighbors seemed to have their homes furnished, pool/spa started a few months after moving in. When we sold, we had a profit, no debt, and never looked back. Many of our former neighbors have since circled the drain. We kept hearing they had “extra equity”. Gotta love their pea brains. Cash is king!

Comment by toast on the coast 90803
2009-06-26 12:06:50

My Neighbor behind me in a gated Long Beach CA community purchased their home for $379,000 in the mid 90’s and refied to $1,300,000. They have 2 Range Rovers, Porche,40 ft RV, all the toys and more. They snear at you as they drive by. She even called me trash because I called the cops on her abusing the kids. They just had NOD filed on the house.
I have 5 years left on a 15 yr. note.
It’s good to be frugal

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-06-26 12:16:32

If she was abusing the kids before, I really feel sorry for them now. Methinks they’re in for a lot more abuse.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 12:16:54

It’ll be good for your neighborhood when they’re evicted.

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Comment by cereal
2009-06-26 12:23:22

Please rub it in and report back.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 13:50:23

I think a giant banner that says “My house is paid off!” facing their house would be just about right…

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-26 16:32:50

Frugal is the way to go. We’re putting 100% down on a modest one-story soon. We’re not growing younger.

My home office wall is adjacent to a child abuser. She is a rage-a-holic, mean, horrible mother. She dumb, fat, lazy, and takes her life out on her 3 sons. I get startled when I am doing financial reports. I know the heartache of hearing it.

Say, how is Long Beach? We’re taking the Metro subway there next weekend to see some sights. The Queen Mary and the Aquarium Of The Pacific are overpriced . We’ll just walk around and explore.Any advice on things to see? Do we need to dress in layers?

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-06-26 17:22:13

Ummm,

Can you call anyone to report her abusive behaviour to her kids? Those kids deserve better.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-26 17:39:06

Mid-week the Queen Mary was a reasonably priced place to stay. Years ago I did a lot of Tomahawk C3I work on the USS New Jersey and USS Missouri which were home-ported in Long Beach. I booked a room often on the QM since it was just down the road from the naval base.

The best part of staying mid-week on the QM was that they didn’t provide security for the “off limits” portions of the ship. Since I’m an insomniac, I would pocket my flashlight and wander the ship at 2 or 3 am. I’d just duck under those velvet ropes with the off-limits signs. I’ve been all over the QM in places normal tourists don’t see.

How much of a trip was that? Sleeping on one historical ship and working during the day on another historical ship. :)

 
Comment by toast on the coast 90803
2009-06-26 18:15:53

Wipeout,
On your visit to Long Beach take the red shuttle bus from Ocean blvd. to Belmont Shore. Stroll and shop along Second street. Cross over Bayshore and take a walk along the canals of Naples. One of the most unique and beautiful places in Southern California. If you are there for the 4th it will be hectic and packed. Along First street and Ocean Blvd. visit Bluff Park with it’s historic Bungelows , spanish homes and a museum.
It’s cool and sunny here today

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-26 18:18:25

Try again.

Mid-week the Queen Mary was a reasonably priced place to stay. Years ago I did a lot of Tomahawk C3I work on the USS New Jersey and USS Missouri which were home-ported in Long Beach. I booked a room often on the QM since it was just down the road from the naval base.

The best part of staying mid-week on the QM was that they didn’t provide security for the “off limits” portions of the ship. Since I’m an insomniac, I would pocket my flashlight and wander the ship at 2 or 3 am. I’d just duck under those velvet ropes with the off-limits signs. I’ve been all over the QM in places normal tourists don’t see.

How much of a trip was that? Sleeping on one historical ship and working during the day on another historical ship. :)

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-26 20:35:15

toast on the coast 90803
What great info. I’ll take you up on your suggestions. Thank You so much. I had no idea we had canals in Long Beach. I’ve been to Venice, Italy. Thanks for the ideas. Much appreciated.

DennisN
The QM has new investors, and I think a large section of the QM is closed right now. I’ll check into it. I believe FDR was a guest on the QM. It does have a lot of history. You naughty boy, exploring the ship in unauthorized places. Bold, brazen, and smart. No wonder you’re a hbb gentleman.

SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
I’ve just touched base with an Attorney to find out about civil liability (state of Ca)and how to approach the CPS. Wording becomes legal liability, and we’re not as poor as our neighbors. This pig is a walking firecracker.

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-06-26 21:03:14

DennisN
So, you’re a fellow Lockheed Fed Cr Union member, I assume? My other half worked for Litton G&C Systems, and worked on ships for the military in Mississippi, back in the 70’s. He’s an EE.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-06-27 00:55:11

The Lockheed CU morphed into Star One CU after the Martin merger.

I finally closed my Star One accounts last year - too difficult to work with them here in Boise. Nearest branch was in Sunnyvale over 600 miles away.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-06-26 17:13:52

What was she doing to the kids? Dirt, please!

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Comment by SaladSD
2009-06-26 17:27:43

Did their last name happen to be Amberson?

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Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 11:28:16

X-GS,

Well, you didn’t have to live in Flyover for that to be the case but I get your point.

Oh, I’ll be sent to Sheppard AFB in TX for a -second- dose of “tech school” for Avionics. At least E-5 and above get private rooms, cable TV & internet.

Comment by tgun
2009-06-26 11:50:19

DinOR;

Have fun at Sheppard AFB. I am an old-time Avionics guy (Inertial Navigaton and Doppler Radar) 1982-1989 (AF and AFRES: C-141B, C-5A, C-130A), then went OTS; Aircraft Maintenance Squadron OIC, (Avionics Branch, Logistics Support Squadron (maint. control), Squadron Commander, Executive Officer. Retired 2005 (23 years total time in service).

Went to Keesler for BET and Avionics training (loved it by the way). Chanute AFB for Maintenance Officer training, McGee Tyson ANGB (Knoxville TN) for Commander training).

Spent time in DC (Andrews AFB) post 9-11 for while on active duty (title 10 duty) with the ANG HQ as Executive Officer in the CAT (Crisis Action Team). Best position I ever had in my entire military career. Worked my tail off, but very rewarding (I love paybacks!) got to see lots of classified footage of the taliban getting their due. Got to review a number of OIF plans 1 year in advance of the actual event. Of course, the plan that we recommended was not the one selected by Rummy. Our plan called for sealing off the neighboring borders prior to the ground invasion. Was told that we were not considering the leverage of the technology at our disposal (i.e. too many troops, planes, logistical support, etc.). Do more with less, I guess.

Anyway, best of luck to you at SAFB and try to get in some relaxation.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 12:13:14

Have fun at Sheppard in July/August. Spent many a summer at my grandad’s farm about 50 miles NE of there. Try to grab a few “Black Diamond” watermelons while you are down ther :)

Is it just me, or are there quite a few current/former “aviation types” on the blog?

“Our plan called for sealing off the neighboring borders……”

“On Strategy: A Critical Analysis of the Vietnam War” was (and still may be) required reading at the Command and General Staff colleges. One of the points made in the book was that the US should have used their manpower to seal the border to South Vietnam, then let the South Vietnamese work out their issues without outside interference, instead of playing whack-a-mole, and trying to be the policeman.

Evidently, Rummy and the Boyz didn’t catch that one.

Putting aside the basic invasion decision, for once I wish that the Joint Chiefs had done the right thing, and resigned, rather than try to implement a plan that was stupid on it’s face.

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Comment by tresho
2009-06-26 12:35:21

for once I wish that the Joint Chiefs had done the right thing, and resigned, rather than try to implement a plan that was stupid on it’s face. I read that one of the Chiefs back in the mid 60’s was on the very verge of resigning over this issue but changed his mind at the last minute, and late in life regretted not having done so. If only one of them had resigned and gone public.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 14:14:16

That was probably Army Chief of Staff, Harold K. Johnson (Keith to his friends). He said his one regret is that he didn’t have the moral courage to resign over the Vietnam War.

I had lunch with him and a private chat over a highly sensitive matter and that guy did care about the grunt troops.

His bird colonel aide, knew every detail about me, my life and he intentionally locked my heels while vetting and drilled me to see how handle myself before I meeting and eating with the “Boss”.

It was Gen Johnson who 1st used the line of “Sins of Omission and Sins of Commission” on me and said we would both be guilty of them before that war was over.

He was right.

He wrote in his book later, that if he had resigned, that the PTB would have just got somebody else to do LBJ’s and McNamera Nam war run-up bidding.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 12:27:27

tgun,

Thanks! Like yourself, most of my experience was w/ the “heavies” so they couldn’t waiver the school! I was a little hacked off at first but when I learned that I’d now qualify for the “Post 9/11 G.I Bill” I said… sure!

Additionally, OR doesn’t tax you on income you earn outside of the state if you’re legitimately assigned elsewhere. I was really surprised to learn you’re not taxed on basically anything other than your base pay. I will say though, even as a lowly E-5, when “I” was on active duty, only officers made 5K a month. Sr. off. at that!

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Comment by DennisN
2009-06-26 17:02:06

Funny you should mention this. My first job out of grad school (the first time - 1977) was avionics design at Dalmo Victor/Bell Aerospace. I was brought in and handed the job of debugging the design of one of the boards in the AN/ALR-69 “Compass Tie” RWR set. The previous guy did a rough schematic then bailed to another company, leaving a mess for me to clean up. I got the darned mess cleaned up. By this time the other senior guys on the project had quit since DV paid squat. The bosses didn’t quite know what to do but since I seemed to know what I was doing I got a “battlefield promotion” to chief project engineer - 14 months out of school. I shepparded the project through final qual and got it approved for service use (ASU).

Since I got the AN/ALR-69 to be ASU, the bosses put me in charge of a new project. I smiled and quit, taking a job at Lockheed for a 35% pay raise. ;)

The AN/ALR-69 was used on the F-16, A-10, and B-52 aircraft. IIUC it was used on all three through the first Gulf War. A much more modern design was later put on the F-16 but the AN/ALR-69 was retained on the A-10 for budget reasons. IIUC the A-10 is just now beginning a major avionics upgrade right here in Boise.

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Comment by exeter
2009-06-26 15:55:35

Sheppard AFB lineman school grad here. Wasn’t USAF though. US Army detached from Fort Silly.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-06-26 15:58:52

Man, it’s a small world. Sheppard is in my home town.

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Comment by exeter
2009-06-26 16:23:01

Oh my word B Dogg…. You’re from tumbleweed country!

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-06-26 17:00:53

Funny you mention that. Once I was working in New Braunfels while I was in college. My boss asked me if I would go home and bring back some tumbleweeds for him to sell to tourists. I thought, “why in the hell would people buy tumbleweeds?”

 
Comment by exeter
2009-06-26 17:12:55

I don’t remember much of it but being a greenhorn from New England, all I could think of when I first saw the place was spagetti westerns…. high plains drifter. It was 25 years ago and I spent all 4 months $hitfaced daily so most of it is a blur.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-06-26 17:17:29

Why? WHY? Because you can stack them up, paint them white, and make SNOWMEN out of them, Ben. That’s why. Geesh.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-06-26 17:27:09

Ahhh, tumbleweeds. My mom wanted one so bad, I got one for her one year for Christmas.

Those tumbling tumbleweeds.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-06-26 17:32:35

‘My mom wanted one so bad, I got one for her one year for Christmas.’

I think that’s what he was going to do with them. Paint em and sell as Xmas displays. This was in Gruene, Texas (outside of NB), where the tourist will buy anything.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-06-26 11:32:05

A “no one saw this coming” story from Tucson:

The January 2009 Ward 3 Neighbors Alliance meeting featured Tucson’s recently fired city manager, Mike Hein, as the guest speaker. At one point, he said this about Tucson’s (largely real estate-induced) economic crisis: “No one saw this coming.”

Oh, brother. That tired old excuse. I called BS on it — I said that a lot of people* saw it coming. And Hein was speechless. It took a full 16 beats to the measure before he resumed his presentation.

A few weeks later, the Tucson City Council voted to remove Hein as city manager. My City Council member, Karin Uhlich (who represents Ward 3), cited a loss of confidence in Hein as her reason for voting for his removal.

————————

*Unfortunately, they were outnumbered by those who didn’t want to see it coming.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 12:16:57

“They didn’t see it coming”……that’s their story, and they are stickin’ to it.

The adult version of “The dog ate my homework”.

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-06-26 19:32:23

Occasionally dogs do eat homework. And books. And shoes. And pens and pencils.
I’m glad my pooch has grown out of the chewing stage.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 12:18:23

He might not have seen it coming, but at least you all got to see him going… (out the door!)

 
Comment by tresho
2009-06-26 12:32:11

That tired old excuse. I called BS on it — I said that a lot of people* saw it coming. And Hein was speechless. It took a full 16 beats to the measure before he resumed his presentation.
Bravo for you! I think the marker for the end of the Housing Bubble collapse will be when no one can get away with saying “Nobody saw it coming” because they know they will be laughed or hooted off the stage. So many of our fearless leaders’ public pronouncements even today are begging for this kind of response.

Comment by John
2009-06-26 13:17:14

I find it even more annoying now when so many who didn’t see it coming insist that they did. For so long I was one of the few voices of sanity here in South FL while everyone said I was crazy. To hear all of these Nostradamus wannabes now you wonder how things ever got out of control. It is just like when someone forgets where they heard a story from and repeats your story back to you years later as though it were their own. I’m not a violent person but that always makes me want to punch the person in the face.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 13:31:10

John,

Excellent point. It’s not a matter of being or *not being violent. It’s that every time I’ve had that happen to ‘me’ I was so utterly astonished, I had no idea what to say in response!

I think for those that ‘didn’t’ see it coming, it’s becoming more obvious on a daily basis ‘that’ position is indefensible. You don’t have to work at the Federal Reserve to take your lumps. You bought a house, you borrowed -against- it to buy another, and still another!

Well, obviously you THOUGHT about it! ( Or was that involuntary too? ) Based on this defense, a “John” could always tell his wife, “Geez honey, I had enough on me at the time and I really didn’t think about it! You can’t hold ‘that’ against me?”

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-06-26 15:03:29

And then there’s always the question of WHAT they saw coming. Believe me, I saw the housing bust coming before I started reading this blog, but I was thinking of the housing bust as mainly a Calif-Ariz-Fla-Nev phenomenon. A few months into reading this blog I said hey wait a minute, it COULD happen here (my summer place, coast of Maine)…and my agent found a customer in three days (June 2006) because I took my agent’s advice about the price. Now if I had stuck to the “It’s Different Here” script, I could still claim that “I saw the bust coming,” but I wouldn’t have saved myself the headache of owning a depreciating asset.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 15:22:03

az_lender,

I’ve made claims to ‘either’ effect but what I will say is, I had a nagging suspicion long before I knew what a blog was? Particularly here in OR where homes had been going up at fair clip ever since the early 90’s.

My mother worked for Chicago Title for 30 years and she -assured- me what we were seeing was an abberation. It seemed like every time you turned around a MB or realtor was bugging you to re-fi or sell your house?

Mom…!?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mad Boy
2009-06-26 10:43:40

A mid-West post!

I still see a lot of houses selling for too much money in Madison.

Now with announcement GM not reopening in Janesville, Rock County will dip even more (although it’s still too high).

Strange, the USA Today had the report about Rock County increasing over 1,000% for foreclosures, yet the GM plant has closed six months.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-06-26 11:10:27

Oh wait, this must be more right wing talking points, as per oxide’s comments.

After all, nothing bad ever happens in the ObamaNation;
just ask the NY Times, Daily Kos, or the politically correct left.

Must be all because of Bush, of course, of course.

Comment by Big V
2009-06-26 17:21:26

Oh, getoffit. If you Robopubs insist on spouting daily insults thinly veiled as irrelevant half-truths, then you don’t have much of a right to complain about the counter-attack.

 
 
Comment by CincyDad
2009-06-26 12:45:52

There is often a delay between loss if income and loss of house. In my hometown, the steel workers were locked-out for 16 months. Very few homes went into foreclosure during that time.

About 6 months after the workers returned to work, the foreclosures started rising rapidly. Turns out the employees were borrowing everything they could to survive, but found themselves in too deep a whole once the paychecks resumed.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-06-26 14:23:22

Hey Mad Boy..good to see you posting.

You know that any changes with Wisconsin RE prices move at the velosity of molasses in -20 degrees weather.

It’s different here :)

 
 
Comment by speedingpullet
2009-06-26 10:47:59

Joshua Hamann jokingly compares himself to the last human in a city overrun by zombies.

I’m having deja-vu over a JG Ballard dystopian short story called “Vermillion Sands” when I read that… very wierd.

Comment by DinOR
2009-06-26 11:39:02

What ‘else’ would one expect to find in the Dark Towers Of Financial Doom?

 
 
Comment by oneangryslav
2009-06-26 11:04:54

“Valerie McGillivray, president of the greater Newburyport Association of Realtors, says the problem with the Warren Report figures is that they are average numbers for the state as a whole. McGillivray says in the cities the market is tough. ‘The big cities are faced with hundreds and hundreds of foreclosures,’ she says.”

“‘Prices are at an all-time low,’ she says. ‘There are some great deals in Amesbury and some really great deals in Newburyport.’”

I think Ms. McGillivray has a different definition of “all-time”. Rather than the real meaning, she probably means “all-time–you know, since 2000.”

And why don’t the reporters note that prices, contrary to what the interlocutor claimed, are not at an all-time low?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 13:27:33

SD prices are stuck at 2002 levels for the moment — it appears they have reached a ‘permanently quasi-low’ plateau…

Comment by CA renter
2009-06-26 17:25:34

In our area, price were dipping to ~2003 levels, but I’ve seen some recent sales that have been **above** peak prices!!!!!!! Some people who bought in 2005/2006 have been able to sell at a modest profit! :(

Still renting and waiting…

 
Comment by Big V
2009-06-26 17:26:25

They’re all banking on a workout/bailout. I’m looking around in Ramona, seeing probably 1 in 5 houses for sale. None of them are selling and asking prices are still too high.

Comment by CA renter
2009-06-26 18:25:57

Wow. You want to live in Ramona?

We were there yesterday, as a matter of fact. Plenty of homes for sale, and I’d imagine you could get a pretty nice deal out there. Don’t let the list prices fool you, as I’m sure you can negotiate well below their asking prices (one would hope!).

Along the coast, however… :(

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Comment by Big V
2009-06-26 20:03:20

No, I don’t want to live in Ramona. I’m just here, and so I can’t help but notice is all.

 
 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-06-26 15:05:22

In Newburyport and especially Amesbury, I’m thinking, “Not only were prices lower in years past, they’re very likely to be lower in years to come.”

 
 
Comment by homepop
2009-06-26 11:32:45

Does anyone on this blog have any information or opinions regarding the real estate situation in California’s gold country (Auburn, Grass Valley, Nevada City, etc.)?

Comment by Next Shoe to Drop
2009-06-26 19:09:03

All those areas must be getting hit hard now. Unemployment way up, for sale signs everywhere, etc. Just like everywhere else, the bottom won’t be seen till 2011 or later. My parents live in Jackson/Volcano area and median income in the area is like $1.37. :-D

My stepdad hasn’t been able to get a job in over a year, and he’s no dope. It’s all welfare, food-stamps, and joblessness out there so don’t bother to wonder if prices will hold up out there.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-26 21:50:53

The “bottom” of the gold country is the Oakhurst area. I keep a watch on the land for sale in that region. It’s still inflated like it was three years ago. There are enough Los Angeles retirees to keep those areas pricy for now, unfortunately. Even pricier is the area around North Fork.

 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-26 19:33:12

Grass Valley has always puzzled me. Really high median home prices for Placer County, but low median income. Not sure what people do up there besides work in the tourist shops and hotels. Maybe they live there and commute to Sacramento for work?

The other possibility for Placer County rural areas is that it’s like Mendocino or Humboldt in that marijuana production provides the economic base. Why do you think they call it “Grass” Valley.

Comment by arizonadude
2009-06-27 06:34:50

Isn’t grass valley in nevada county?

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-06-26 11:37:49

Im surprised nobody posted Dilbert this morning..

http://www.dilbert.com/

Comment by WT Economist
2009-06-26 12:16:19

Someone mentioned it. Looks like someone sees the upside for some folks.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 12:21:04

It’s about time Asok came out ahead.

Comment by az_lender
2009-06-26 15:08:18

about time renters came out ahead in MSM

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-06-26 15:43:52

Maybe this was Scott Adams’ way of telling us that he’s made the transition from bitter renter to vengeful one?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-06-26 12:01:19

the gullible homebuyer who actually believes the real estate agent when told he or she should make an initial offer at asking price or higher.’

I always chuckle when the agent suggest an offer at the asking price. I bet these couples pay sticker at the car dealership too!

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-06-26 15:04:24

Don’t encourage them! Next thing you know, you’ll see Suzanne pitching her new, “no-haggle” pricing campaign.

 
 
Comment by cereal
2009-06-26 12:06:57

“As far as us forecasting and foreseeing the great decline, we did not, nor should we be faulted for it”

Then what makes these people think they should be involved in any economic punditry / decision making whatsoever.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-06-26 12:11:37

“The housing market has suffered a massive shock”

I like to think of it as a massive awakening.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 13:23:51

“On a recent Friday morning, Hamann encountered exactly three people over the course of several hours — two security guards, and a concierge. ‘This is how it goes every day,’ Hamann said, adding that he interacted with more neighbors growing up in rural Kentucky, where farms were spaced a mile apart.”

NOW I see why Bawney Fwank thinks a loosening of condo lending standards is warranted.

Comment by Müggy
2009-06-26 16:37:18

“Bawney Fwank”

Stop it, man. You’re killing me!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 13:26:08

“Rules like those for appraisals and for measuring a borrower’s credit worthiness are being implemented nationally, he said, but ‘real estate is local’ and Wisconsin is different from California and Florida, for instance.”

The Lereah meme has outlasted the career of its inventor.

Comment by jbw
2009-06-26 14:27:23

But Wisconsin is different! California spends millions running advertising campaigns in Wisconsin telling us they are so superior that they even have better dairies than the dairy state, while Wisconsin focused on actually _being_ better. Now which state is hopelessly screwed, and which one is still making the best cheese?

Comment by Mo Money
2009-06-26 15:41:00

But WE have happy cows, so Nyah Nyah !

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 18:13:38

I hope California didn’t pay more than 5 bucks for that “Happy California Cows” campaign.

The Chick-Fil-A “Eat more chikin’” ads are pretty good, though.

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Comment by mikey
2009-06-27 06:14:26

“But WE have happy cows, so Nyah Nyah”

and we have “Spotted Cow, Fat Squirrel, Yokel and Totally Naked” brands of beer plus many more from our famous small town, award winning New Glarus Brewing Company.

The phrase “You know you are in Wisconsin when you see the Spotted Cow” brings smiles to faces of the beer drinking cults.

That’s either the motto of that beer or the entire University of Wisconsin School System but they both go great with lots of pizza.
:)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 13:29:37

“…and the tight mortgage lending standards are loosened.”

I keep seeing isolated instances in the MSM of ‘experts’ suggesting mortgage lending standards need to be loosened. How exactly do these ‘experts’ think we got into this foreclosure crisis to begin with?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 13:59:03

I still want to know where the standards are ‘tight’. Compared to two years ago, maybe, but historically we’re looser than a 40 year old hooker. Sure, we might not be as loose as the 50 year old hooker, but we’re not exactly virginal.

 
Comment by Lisa
2009-06-26 16:03:38

“I keep seeing isolated instances in the MSM of ‘experts’ suggesting mortgage lending standards need to be loosened. How exactly do these ‘experts’ think we got into this foreclosure crisis to begin with?”

Too bad there is no secondary market anymore to buy toxic mortgages. Without that, lending standards aren’t loosening.

The sooner the MSM drills this home, the better. People can then make whatever decision is best for their finances, which for a lot of FB’s, will involve leaving the keys on the granite counter and finding a rental.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-06-26 17:43:11

I keep seeing isolated instances in the MSM of ‘experts’ suggesting mortgage lending standards need to be loosened. How exactly do these ‘experts’ think we got into this foreclosure crisis to begin with?
————————

Clearly you missed the memo, PB. Everyone knows the “foreclosure crisis” is due to declining prices, silly!

See, loosen standards —> halt declining prices —> solve foreclosure crisis! ;)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 23:37:03

Sorry I have not responded to your e-mail — it is buried somewhere in the nether regions of my e-mail inbox. Unfortunately, my family is scheduled to be in the Midwest during the week of that trip you mentioned. Keep asking if you think about us when similar opportunities arise, as I am very interested (though apparently not often available :-( ).

Comment by CA renter
2009-06-27 02:26:38

We’ll let you know of any trips we plan in the future.

Incidentally, lots of people hurting in that industry, as you probably already know — even the most successful ones. They scoff at any notion of “green shoots” in our economy.

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Comment by CA renter
2009-06-27 02:27:53

Hope you have a fun trip back east! :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2009-06-26 13:51:30

“Now, as the state has unveiled a law making lenders prove they have comprehensive loan-modification programs, a new round of callers have weighed in with their problems.
Two told of modifications that raised their monthly payments instead of lowering them.

One, regretfully, paid $3,800 up front to a loan modification company for that outcome.”

Payment went up? How surprising!!
You got a loan at 2% backloading the payments onto the balance. It’s due to re-set to 7% with payments on the new balance. The MODIFICATION makes the payments 5% until the balance gets back to the original loan amount (What a great deal!!).
What is the “owner” looking for………..a LOWER PAYMENT.

GET REAL!!! You scum-bag parasites. PAY YOUR MORTGAGE and Be thankful you haven’t been thrown out on the street.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 14:20:19

Or better yet, leave the keys on the counter on your way out so this correction can really get rolling, and then somebody who can actually afford to live in the house can buy it for a reasonable price.

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-06-26 14:30:39

Fleck blasts the NAR and NAMB in his 6/29/09 MSN Money Commentary, due to lobbying for “mark to model” home appraisals.

(Sorry……I’m no good with the link thingie……)

Comment by Arizona Slim
 
 
Comment by Lisa
2009-06-26 15:59:44

One of the anchors on CNBC yesterday asked a guest when RE values would start to go up again. Guest replied not to hold her breath, that the loans that made it possible for prices to get that high (and to completely disconnect from local incomes) simply don’t exist anymore. Dead silence, like the panel didn’t know how to respond to that oh so inconvenient bit of reality.

BTW, the same anchor also asked what it would take to get consumers to spend like it was 2007 again. Like it was just a matter of consumer confidence, and the debt binge could pick up where it left off. Those days are GONE, as everyone on this board knows. Access to cheap, easy credit is shut off for a long, long time.

Comment by SaladSD
2009-06-26 17:37:37

CNBC is freaking out that Americans are actually showing some financial constraint. Please,please,please start spending money, otherwise all of our Quants’ computer formulas are going to hell in a handbasket. Need cash infusion, nowwwwww. Why isn’t this donkey budging, dammit?

Comment by Lisa
2009-06-26 17:56:18

“CNBC is freaking out that Americans are actually showing some financial constraint. Please,please,please start spending money.”

I’ve noticed the same thing recently. Everyone wants to know what it will take for consumers to spend, spend, spend again.

Jobs are disappearing by the hundreds of thousands every month, so folks have decided it’s smart to save. And credit is being reduced to boot… CC and HELOC limits are being cut and/or accounts closed out.

Less credit means less spending, as it takes a while to “save” for a big ticket item versus toss a purchase onto a CC or HELOC. It doesn’t seem like it’s a difficult concept, but I know, the MSM is just baffled about the less than enthusiastic spending levels these days.

Comment by CA renter
2009-06-26 18:02:35

I’ve noticed the same thing recently. Everyone wants to know what it will take for consumers to spend, spend, spend again.
———————

What’s funny is that these are the same people who cheer on “globalization” and offshoring of our jobs. WTF do they not understand about “we have NO money”?

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Comment by Lisa
2009-06-26 18:06:42

“WTF do they not understand about “we have NO money”?”

No money AND less access to credit. The double whammy.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-06-26 21:54:47

Maybe if everyone returned to 10% savings rate, we would return to having one car per family, one television per family, one telephone line…wait. That’s how my family lived back in the 1960s and 1970s.

 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-06-26 17:42:31

This sounds interesting. Got a link?

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2009-06-26 16:15:04

“On a recent Friday morning, Hamann encountered exactly three people over the course of several hours — two security guards, and a concierge. ‘This is how it goes every day,’ Hamann said, adding that he interacted with more neighbors growing up in rural Kentucky, where farms were spaced a mile apart.”

Don’t HOA fees pay for things like security guards and concierges? Looks like this ONE guys is going to paying these guys salaries…

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-06-26 16:32:59

I think they had about 50 sold, so those 50 people are paying those 3 people’s salaries. I’m sure there are more than 3 people working there. As long as the builder doesn’t dump the project and is making up the shortfall, those 50 people won’t feel the sting, but as soon as the builder throws in the towel, they are going to get brutalized.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 23:41:33

We have certainly covered this topic again and again in these parts of the blogosphere. Glad to see some academics have finally woken up to the situation at hand. Curiously I feel the urge to burst out into song just now:


Just slip out the back, jack
Make a new plan, stan
You dont need to be coy, roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, gus
You dont need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, lee
And get yourself free

Wall Street Journal

* June 26, 2009, 11:02 AM ET

When Is It Cheaper to Ditch a Home Than Pay?

Real Time Economics HOME PAGE

By Sudeep Reddy

Foreclosures aren’t only due to homeowners facing a cash crunch. One out of four defaults on mortgage loans is “strategic,” a new study says, due to a mortgage’s value exceeding the value of a house even if the homeowner can afford to pay.

Strategic default is most likely when home values have fallen by more than 15%, according to the study by authors of the Financial Trust Index, a joint project of the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. (Read the paper here by authors Northwestern’s Paola Sapienza, Chicago’s Luigi Zingales and Luigi Guiso of the European University Institute.)

The researchers found that homeowners start to default once their negative equity passes 10% of the home’s value. After that, they “walk away massively” after decreases of 15%. About 17% of households would default — even if they could pay the mortgage — when the equity shortfall hits 50% of the house’s value, they found.

“Housing policy under the current administration has focused on reducing households’ cash flow problems in response to the housing crisis, but no one has addressed the negative equity issue as part of public policy regarding housing,” Sapienza said.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-26 23:45:44

It certainly must be easier to dump a home than a lover or a pet. Just drop off the keys, lee, and set yourself free! No divorce, no recourse, just a simple transfer of ownership back to the lender — what could be simpler, and what’s stopping you from avoiding an albatross of unrepayable debt around your neck for the rest of your life?

And don’t worry about what your friends are saying or doing — be the first on your block to dump the keys to your McMansion off at the lender’s doorstep.

Finance and Economics

Mortgage defaults in America
Can pay, won’t pay

Jun 25th 2009
From The Economist print edition
It is easier to dump a home loan if a friend has done so too

HOUSE prices in America have fallen so far that as many as one in five households have mortgage debt greater than the value of their homes. In a few states, borrowers are not liable for the shortfall between an unpaid loan and the resale value of the home it is secured upon. Even where borrowers are on the hook, lenders often find it too costly to pursue unpaid debts. So some homeowners may be tempted to default and escape the burden of negative equity.

How widespread is this practice? New research* based on a survey of 1,000 homeowners suggests that one in four mortgage defaults are “strategic”—by people who could meet their payments but who choose not to. The main drivers of strategic default are the scale of negative equity, and moral and social considerations. Few would opt to renege on their mortgage if the equity gap were below 10% of their home’s value, the authors find, partly because of the costs of moving. But one in six would bail out if loans were underwater by a half.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-06-27 06:15:59

Did I ever mention to you guys that I don’t believe the Fed’s brand of top-down, big-government-sponsored, debt-funded consumerism is part of the American way? I see the reversion to a very high personal savings rate as a sign that the people are throwing off the yoke of oppression from the lending industry, a trend which I hope continues until the financial sector is shrunken down to a less “too-big-to-fail” size.

Comment by CA renter
2009-06-27 16:51:29

Amen!!!

I’m happy to see it, too. Let’s hope is keeps up (I have my doubts).

 
 
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