Bits Bucket For June 29, 2009
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What a mess. I was watching and listening to some soundbites from some of the “investors” in the Madoff fund. Don’t tell me some of these jamokes didn’t know or at least have an idea something fishy was going on. Supposedly these are intelligent people. Some of them just felt “honored” and “special” to be admitted to the fund. I’ll bet they thought they were all clubby and tickety-boo and those not “special” enough could pound sand. Now that their little cash cow turns out to be a teatless coyote, oh, the outrage.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/26/news/economy/madoff_sentence/?postversion=2009062904
Hey Palmy:
Long time no read. What does a one bedroom concrete shack/condo, about one mile from the ocean cost in your area, as renter?
“their little cash cow”
Right, after this blew up some of the clients interviewed said they were told they could “pick” their level of return. To the ‘penny’ no less! Want a 19% return year-after-year? No problem!
Nope, nothing fishy there?
They had no problems, as long as they thought they were the “screwer”.
They didn’t perceive that they were, in fact, the “screwee”.
Either way, I’m betting that they are still better off financially than 98% of the population. Just can’t generate a whole lot of sympathy.
LOL - on Frontline basically they said that the investors all thought Bernie was breaking the law, but as long as they got those returns they were ok with it.
I’m just not welling up over their plight. My tears are reserved for the truly deprived. These people were blinded by their own greed, and got burned.
I’ve heard some interesting stories–ranging from multi-generational wealth being wiped out (many, many millions), to the small-timers.
So far, the only story I heard about where I actually felt sorry for the person was an elderly woman in Florida who lost a few hundred thousand with Madoff (all of her savings). She left it there because her deceased father, the accountant, thought Madoff was honorable and an investing genius. She knew no better than to listen to her dad.
All the others, who ignored the most basic of investing theories (diversification) deserve little if any sympathy. They were all trying to get something for nothing (great returns with little risk and no diversification). Such a thing doesn’t exist.
I felt very, very sorry for a 91-year old man in California who lost $700K. He’s working (believe it or not ) handing out fliers at a grocery store. He was filmed at his job and interviewed on either NBC or Fox News tonight. It sickened me.
Is the amount they lost based on what they actually invested or are they taking the amount they invested and multiplying it by 20% for how ever many years? Maybe they didn’t really lose as much as they think.
Dale:
That is the big question…700K what was the initial investment $70K?
He probably was counting on that to give to his kids/grandkids, or else he probably would have spent a lot of it it long ago
I wonder if the jamokes think that “other, lesser people” were doomed to see only 1/4 of 1% yearly returns on their money market funds invested, whereas they, the “Friends of Bernie” could count on 12% annual yields because they were so smart and well connected?
Maybe they felt entitled to enormous gains due to their enormous egos?
Maybe they thought piddly returns were for the “little people”?
Or maybe they should be “allowed” to watch their last cent disappear forever???
I know my blood pressure will go to 500/400 when sympathetic Congresscritters and Senators propose that they the so-called victims, be made “whole”; bailed out, since the SEC, a government agency, did not discover the fraud “in time”.
‘I know my blood pressure will go to 500/400′
Yeah. And getting mad at red lights, etc, makes about as much sense. Working up blood pressure about things outside of our control isn’t very healthy.
Profound words of wisdom. (Not suckin’ up, either, Ben).
“Working up blood pressure about things outside of our control isn’t very healthy.”
Well, Ben, I certainly agree about that.
It still remains difficult for me to restrain my emotional responses even after 58 years on planet Earth. Thanks for the blog, the best I have ever found, and all that you have done to help the people, Ben! I hope one day this blog can be designated a National Landmark or equivalent. It deserves the recognition and distinction.
BTW it was 109 here in Mesa yesterday.
In and of itself that would get your blood to halfway boiling!
How’s the cold beer in Harry Carey’s (RIP) place in Mesa. Do they have a significant selection?
True, but once those in charge steal every cent we have (via taxes, inflation, or bubble-scams), then what? At what point is “something done” about this?
I’m happy for the 0.41 percent yield on my June fourth 52 week T-bill. It’s not anywhere near “too good to be true!” I care more about return of my principle these days than return on my principle.
+0.41% looking pretty good about now. Do ya think this bust will be big enough that we’ll be able to wait 20 years before people think that real, risk free returns of 10% are possible?
I give it ten years, rather than 20. But I think it’s going to be very deep for another ten years.
A good way to control blood pressure is to donate blood. You bleed out like a house in the I.E. but unlike that house 60 days latter you recover your loss and can do it again. It does control blood pressure though.
One of the things that’s helped my BP is the simple realization that many of the people that ‘thought’ they were cutting a fat hog from the sale of their home at the peak, are now out of a job.
Stay w/ me here. If they made out w/ a 100 or 300k, how long will they have to be out of work before all of that and then some are completely negated? STILL in love w/ The Boom? I think as more and more people come to grips w/ the fact that The Boom COST them more than it ever ‘made’ them, we can perhaps get a handle on the speculative fever?
Whatever helps.
Hey Palmy~
Big WSJ editorial today trashing your boy Crist.
They call him “Hurricane Charlie”. Says he’s a Republican Barney Frank.
Gist of the article says you Floridians because of the casualty insurance situation are one major hurricane disaster away from financial implosion.
Don’t subscribe online so I can’t link.
Maybe another poster here can do it.
I agree.
There’s a great deal more stink in this pond than just Madoff and his flunkies. Lots of people made off with ill-gotten gains - and there’s no way that some did not know it.
What need to be done is to have every investor on the list, especially the early ones, investigated for possible knowledge of and participation in the scam and send them to jail as well if it can be demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew something illegal was going on.
What crime do you charge them with? I don’t think putting your money into an investment is enough to bring a co-conspiracy charge even if you suspect that something fishy is going on. You have to find what we used to call “the smoking memo” to prove someone knew what was going on. Good luck with that. Weepy confessions are for TV shows, not real life.
The best they are going to be able to do is get some of the money that was taken out of the scheme before it toppled clawed back and distributed to try to catch up some of the later investors for their lost principle. And it is going to take big bucks and lots of investigator hours just to do that.
The most unfortunate thing about the situation is that nothing has changed. There is no accountability on the part of those asleep at the switch. In fact, throughout this whole stock market and housing bubble, and subsequent meltdown, nothing has changed. It’s business as usual. Sickening.
I know it will never happen, but it’s pretty obvious a lot of them knew something illegal was going on. The ‘best case’ we can hope for is that nobody is tried to be ‘made whole’ but encourage the investors who lost out to sue investors who took money out. Let them feed on each-other for awhile longer.
The best thing about this case is that the people who got hurt were the people who participated. I don’t feel there were any ‘innocent victims’ in this one.
There are an awful lot of people who depended on non-profits that invested with Madoff who are going to find whatever they used to get curtailed - whether it is food, social services, scholarships, after school programs, entertainment from arts organizations, or something else.
You can have your own opinion about whether it is a good thing to depend on these organizations, but a college kid who used to have a scholarship sponsored by XYZ fund who is getting cut off because XYZ fund doesn’t exist anymore is also feeling the hurt.
And what the heck were they doing investing with Madoff in the first place? If you are deriving your working cash off of investments, you make sure to have as reliable and steady an investment income as possible. They should have been invested in long term treasuries and so forth. Whoever was running them is to blame for their collapse. That’s like asking me to feel sorry for a 75 year old guy who had moved all his retirement money in tech stocks in 2000. If they were looking for high return options, it should only have been with money they could survive without if it went south.
And the college kid who had a scholarship should be grateful for what he or she got. They aren’t victims.
150 years…. and he’s not Methuselah either.
Poetic justice doesn’t get any better than this.
The sharks get sharked and then they all go down in flames.
Damn shame about the charities, though. I have no doubt that was one of the reasons for the long sentence.
All hell is going to break loose for me at work today. Boss, I knew for 30 years, long story, started with the firm as a young stud attorney, got law license back couple years ago from long standing substance abuse problem, (lost everything, huge), doing great work, two years solid, no missed days, etc., asked for nominal raise since I inherited 150 more files in add to 175 I had, cause only other atty. who goes to court left office, guess what Boss, does? Wants to 1099 me and give me a “car allowance” , $350 a month. I have to falsify mileage logs to make it work.
I am 50 years old. Can u say, “Boss stick it up your poopie?”
I’m heading to Naples, or wherever. Mars is an option.
Bob Dylan said it best: “you can come back, but you can’t come back all the way”.
You will not need to falsify travel reports. Since you are being treated as a contractor, you would include all compensation on your Schedule C (or net on Form 2106) and report only your true mileage.
From an IRS standpoint, if they continue to provide you an office, you likely would be considered an employee and you could make such claim on your return.
Dear poormancometh:
Thank you for your help, and I mean it. I don’t understand it, but I am going to print it and ask an accountant. I do appreciate your reply.
Sincerely,
Greg
Best of luck to you, ATE-UP…
How’s lil” chili doing? Thanks a lot chili Dad, you guys mean a lot to me. Off to the office!!
lill chile is doing great - thanks for asking. He’s back in a “dad phase” this week after spending most of lask week in a “mom phase”. Spending a day with mini-chile, just him sleeping in my arms, is pretty cool. It is nice spending time with someone that doesn’t care how much money I make, isn’t trying to make a buck off me, and doesn’t care what I look like. Four weeks ago I would have said I’d never want to be a full time, stay at home dad. Now? I’m threatening to send my wife back to work ASAP so I can spend more time with him.
Of course, when he is a teenager I’ll have my hands full!!!
“It is nice spending time with someone that doesn’t care how much money I make, isn’t trying to make a buck off me, and doesn’t care what I look like.”
Hey, isn’t that true of us HBB’ers as well?
True. But if you saw me, it might drop to two out of three.
Four weeks ago I would have said I’d never want to be a full time, stay at home dad. Now? I’m threatening to send my wife back to work ASAP so I can spend more time with him.
My wife and I flipped-flopped roles at the beginning of this year. (I do freelance work from home when I have the chance, mostly at night.) It can be challenging at times, but it’s also a lot of fun. I feel lucky to have the chance to be a full-time parent.
Congrats on the Lil’ Chile!
when he is a teenager I’ll have my hands full!!!
Ah….Teenagers…..The age of “Full Enlightenment”….:)
“The age of Full Enlightenment”
I have been very successful in dealing with teenagers on the margins by simply, and calmly detailing reality/consequences. I have several students who are no longer alive, and many who are in jail, but a good number who walked through the fire. It’s been a very soulful, rewarding experience. I was a real jerk as a teenager, so I figure it’s karmic that I accord them the same level of patience I received. Not all will make it, but the ones who do make it all worthwhile.
I too am among the legion of stay-at-home dads, although I do work from home now. The fatherhood thing is cool.
ET, I don’t know what you play for your littleman, but mine loves the ukulele and Grandaddy’s “Nature Anthem.”
My niece is two and therefore a bit older than the babies you guys are dealing with, but she loves Johnny Cash. You should see her dance around to “Ring of Fire.”
ET, I don’t know what you play for your littleman, but mine loves the ukulele and Grandaddy’s “Nature Anthem.”
So far, he seems to like songs with vibes and bells and chimey guitars (Big Star, Joanna Newsom, ’60s pop, etc.) and repetitive electronic stuff like Brian Eno.
We’re actually going to a wee kids music class this Wed. to check it out — apparently it’s mostly about bangin’ on stuff. Should be interesting.
Polly, I fervently hope the lad will love Johnny Cash.
One of my nephews when he was two loved to dance to La Bamba by Ritchie Valens.
Hey Muggy,
My nephew (brother’s son) was a hell raiser during his teen age years and suffered the consequences. Both my brother and sister-in-law were of course pulling their hair out and talking to his teachers about his behaviour and doing what they could.
One teacher knew how much his parents cared for him and the strong foundation my nephew had and told them their son would come through this. The teacher also made sure my nephew knew and paid for the consequences of his actions. Nephew is now 27 and doing great. He started becoming a responsible person in his early twenties.
Jumping in late….Mini-chile loves the Rock-a-bye baby series, particularly the one by the Cure (go figure - I was a big cure fan back in the late-80s/early-90s). I got the Rock-a-bye Baby series for U2 and that isn’t too good.
Another thing Mini-chile likes is when I sit down with my Telecaster and play “Landslide” by Fleetwood Mac. I’m not a Fleetwood Mac fan, but if it makes him happy and gets me some time on a guitar, I’m cool by that.
ATE: I say best of luck, too. A sole practitioner called me last week to find out result of case in which he had to testify. I guess I wasn’t too subtle in hustling him off the phone; he sensed it, and I told him I was doing three projects with approaching deadlines. When he said it sounded as if I were “getting slammed,” I told the truth and responded, “Not really. You know, ‘When it rains it pours,’ but it doesn’t rain everyday.” He then asked me if I knew of any openings with courts or government agencies and said he had out two dozen resumes with such offices. Again, I told the truth, said I did not but would let him know if I did. Conversation ended with him telling me business was “brutal.” This fellow is about 53 and a self-proclaimed spokesperson for the Latino (Hispanic?) Community, the “go-to-guy” for our local media when they need to gauge feelings in that segment of the population. If business is “brutal” for him, then it must be doubly so for those without the fawning exposure he gets.
Thank you jimbo: Yes, it is brutal. Everybody, brutal. Lawyers, at least 8 out of 10 are good people, who take shit cases, ( i.e. comp cases, minimum wage, therefore low rates, settlement is low, lawyer gets 20 percent, lose money everytime), just to help people. Countless times, I see (here) negative comments re lawyers. Actually, overall, it could not be further from the truth.
P.S. I had no appointments today, thought I would pee my butthole boss off by not going in, so I am not. Might write a little with my good friends. Kinda wish Oly was here now.
Countless times, I see (here) negative comments re lawyers.
Never from this poster. Our attorney is worth every penny of his fee and then some. He’s also earned our description - family friend. It will be a sad day for all his clients when he retires.
Our attorney is worth every penny of his fee and then some.
What do you all use lawyers for? I had to deal with one when a company in Austin appropriated some of my photos for an advertising campaign without consulting me. But outside of that, I’ve not had need for one.
Estate planning? Other contracts? What types of things does the ‘average’ person need a lawyer for?
Not being “sourcastic”, (How in the Hell DO you spell that word, Oly?), but maybe people need lawyers for help to navigate the legal system, kind of like when you need a plumber, and trust me, there is no difference.
“sourcastic” = sarcastic. ( I think?) . (Oly smile indicated…:)
but maybe people need lawyers for help to navigate the legal system
Well yes, obviously! I meant for what reason do they need to navigate the legal system? Because I don’t see that I need to on a regular basis, but perhaps I am overlooking something I *should* be doing.
I will give just one example:
Family member falsely accused of felony due to evil neighbor payback.
I used to work at a law firm as in-house tech support and most of the attorneys I worked with…especially the older ones…were really decent. There were one or two (plus almost every first year associate) who were just asses. Of course, I have found that to be the case everywhere I have worked. The one time I have had to hire an attorney I was glad he was there to watch my back.
Probably Not!!
Family member falsely accused of felony due to evil neighbor payback.
Wow…I *do* live a boring life :/
That sucks, but it sounds like your attorney handled that?
I probably should be consulting with an attorney for the contract work I’m doing, but I actually kind of enjoy (in a sick way) picking out all the ridiculous clauses and asking they be stricken. It’s pretty ridiculous what this company has as part of their “standard contractor agreement”. They can terminate at will, but I can’t. If they terminate for cause, they don’t have to pay me a penny (but nothing punitive if I terminate for cause). I understand why the lawyers do this, but I’m surprised other contractors sign something so blatantly biased against them.
I’m with you drumminj. We have paid for legal insurance for many years, but the only time we used it was to set up a trust for the house. I raised two mild-trouble-making teenagers, but they had to take responsibility for their actions, show up alone in front of the judge for their misdemeanors, and pay the consequences. I’ll keep paying the premium on the legal insurance, but hopefully won’t need to use it.
Wow…I *do* live a boring life :/
And I’ve got entirely too much drama…
That sucks, but it sounds like your attorney handled that?
Yes, I wasn’t aware he did criminal defense until that incident. We’d used him for estate matters etc. up to that point. I knew we were in good hands when I referred detective to him, detective let out a groan.
And that unfortunate time was when I learned that the po-po are not your friend. They charge first, ask questions later.
You know the old saying X-philly: “You can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride.”
Used attorneys for divorce, setting up two trusts, wills early on in life, land contract sale, dissolving bad veterinary clinic deal so that neither side sued each other, dealing with ex-husband when he decided to take me back to court two years after divorce ( oh joy - he lost every round but ran up lots of bills for both of us ), and of course, the problem my husband has had with the evil ( the only bad one I’ve ever known ) who had to be taken before the State Bar Ethics Commission for defrauding him and the office she bought with the money that she had defrauded him of. It took two for that case, and we’re not done yet. Four more months on her redemption period to go, though. We have the sheriff sale deed from the county for it, but there is a 6-month redemption period in our state.
My only comment on people who run down/whine about attorneys is that “Everyone complains about them until they need one. Then they want the best one available !”
Who knew !!
Silver:
NOT the Best lawyer….But the one that LOVES being in a courtroom Loves being in front of a judge.
You know most lawyers don’t like being in court so they settle…but if you are out gunned being sued by a multi millionaire hiring a Trial lawyer evens up the score very quickly.
This is from personal experience
————————-
Everyone complains about them until they need one. Then they want the best one available !”
Who knew !!
Do tell, aNYCdj. What’d a get sued for?
OK…..we rented our 1st apartment in Manhattan…and it turns out the landlord charged us market rent when it was supposed to be rent stabilized.
We would have never won if we had rented in NYC before since we should have known the laws.
we are talking over 4years of overcharging
PS…never would have found out but i started paralegal school and they we teaching us about NYC landlord tenant laws…
The landlord wanted us to move out asap….some bizzare reason, so i asked questions in class , and refused to move so they sued…..got a big refund on the overcharges…
More then paid for my schooling many times over.
Check this link at irs.gov on who is an employee vs. an independent contractor.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=173423,00.html
It give a brief explanation and a few links. You boss can’t just chose one. He as to use the one that fits your working conditions.
By the way, all I did to find this was type “employee vs. contrator” in the seach box at irs.gov. It was the first suggested result.
you boss = your boss
he as = he has
Sigh. And I don’t even drink coffee.
Sigh. And I don’t even drink coffee.
Perhaps that’s the problem
Polly,
While you’re at it how about:
give = gives
chose = choose
contrator = contractor
I couldn’t resist!!! I wood due won of those cool emoticons but eye dont no how too - Eye am knot a grammer notzee
Love you’re posts
RE: Wants to 1099 me and give me a “car allowance” , $350 a month. I have to falsify mileage logs to make it work.
This was the big scam for real estate appraisal mills…the independant contractor BS.
Don’t forget you’re gonna be liable for his share of SS via self employment tax….15.3% right off the top!
SS via self employment tax….15.3% right off the top!
But isn’t half of that deductible? I have to worry about that this year too, but from the estimated tax worksheet I thought it really only worked out to having to pay half of that amount?
As far as I know, no part of that lovely 15.3% self employment tax is deductible. But I’m not an accountant. I’m just some self employed schlub who pays the tax.
Half of it is deductible, but that only saves you at your marginal rate (10%, 15%, 28% etc.) It would save you everything if it were a credit, not a deduction.
I was helping some friends get caught up with their taxes over the weekend. I only managed to get through the one year that they had fairly good records for and then give them some advice about how to try to reconstruct their records for the other years. I did it by hand (no software) based entirely on the form and instructions archive on irs.gov and my tax booklet for that year which I had in my files. Now, I had to familiarize myself with their situtation, so that slowed me down substantially, but it took me close to 6 hours to do the forms and schedules (two forms, three schedules and three worksheets, I think).
Now I think I know why people give up and go to H&R Ripoff. I never really understood it before.
Now I think I know why people give up and go to H&R Ripoff. I never really understood it before.
Yeah, it took me several hours to figure out what my estimated tax payment should be. And I did it all by hand using the forms and instructions available online. It really is a pain in the butt, and I just went with the standard deduction rather than worrying about itemizing.
The best part is I really have no basis to estimate my income this year, nor what taxes might be withheld. Will I get a W-2 job? Maybe..maybe not. Will I find more contract work? Perhaps…perhaps not. Yet, if I don’t make “correct” estimated payments, I’m subject to a fine? Ugh.
I already wasn’t a fan of gov’t bureaucracy, but after having been unemployed, fighting with the unemployment office, with the COBRA department of my old insurance administrator (hey, only 4 weeks after they opened the case and told me they’d get back to me in 72 hours, they finally found the check I sent in and re-instated me after dropping my coverage due to non-payment), and dealing with the tax situation…I’m even more inclined to say we should just wipe the slate clean and start over!
Ummm…you do realize that the COBRA department at your old insurance administrator isn’t “gov’t bureaucracy,” don’t you? It is corporate bureaucracy.
Insurance companies are administratively worse than most government departments in my experience. At least they are if you consider that the government departments are probably working on computer systems that are much older than the ones the insurance company has. Sallie Mae and Citibank student loan departments were too, but I haven’t dealt with them in many many years.
Ummm…you do realize that the COBRA department at your old insurance administrator isn’t “gov’t bureaucracy,” don’t you? It is corporate bureaucracy.
Yes, I realize that. I was just grouping it in with the administrative/bureaucratic mess I’ve been dealing with.
“you do realize that the COBRA department at your old insurance administrator isn’t “gov’t bureaucracy,” don’t you? It is corporate bureaucracy.”
And who issues corporate charters, polly?
And who issues corporate charters, polly?
While it’s true the gov’t does, I’d argue the thing to poke at the government for, if anything, is existence of COBRA in the first place. I’m sure there are all kinds of regulations they’re required to follow, and can’t make their own decisions (or at least that’s what they hide behind).
In this case, they “lost” my check and terminated me without notice. Now, it turns out they had my check ,just misplaced it. But it’s the policy of immediate termination without notice that gets to me.
Not that I think COBRA is a bad thing - heck, I’m taking advantage of it - but clearly the provider is just meeting the minimum requirements and trying to get rid of me as quickly/easily as possible.
I still think the root of the problem is having insurance tied to employment in the first place. I understand why COBRA exists given that paradigm, but I think the paradigm is the problem not the existence or implementation of COBRA.
“And who issues corporate charters, polly?”
Wait, are you saying the fact that corporations are created as legal entities by the states, it means the government is responsible when those corporations can’t keep track of their records? Don’t you think that is pushing it?
By the way, corporations aren’t a particularly modern invention. I spent an afternoon once in college trying to figure out when the idea of a company as a legal person came into being. I think the historians traced it back to the guilds of the Middle Ages.
Companies don’t like COBRA. The law says they have to offer it and they have to keep you on the insurance as long as you pay or 18 months which ever is less time. The law does not specify that they have to contact you if you are late with a payment to see if you really want to stop the coverage. Since they don’t have to do it, they don’t. If you would like to harrass your representative to modify the law so companies have to contact you before cancelling or to impose some sort of punative fine if they cancel based on their own administrative mistake, go ahead. But please realize that if you do that you are advocating for more government rules, not fewer.
“but it took me close to 6 hours to do the forms and schedules[...]”
Wow, you are some friend, polly!
“Gangs of America” by Ted Nace.
THE definitive history of corporations. Yes, traced back to the early guilds.
If you would like to harrass your representative to modify the law so companies have to contact you before cancelling
No, not looking to do that. It’s just one of those situations I hate being disenfranchised. I can’t take my COBRA coverage elsewhere….they don’t care about me as a “customer”, so they’ll keep their policies as you described above. I understand why they are how they are. Mainly my ire is directed towards the organization of the company and the resolution of my issue - people not following up, calling me as they claimed they would, etc.
In the end, I had one choice - wait it out with them, or pursue my own insurance. Without the gov’t subsidy it would’ve been a no brainer.
But again, that’s kind of the gov’t meddling in the “free market”. They wouldn’t have my business otherwise. But it’s also ADP Totalsource that’s managing the COBRA coverage, not the insurer directly (as far as I know).
At any rate..I was simply lumping that in with other administrative hassles, gov’t bureaucracies included. Large organizations = pain to deal with. Large monopolies = bend over.
I’m confused. Who lost his license, you or your boss?
Me!
If you become a contractor, then they can fire you without your getting unemployment insurance. It’s a two step process now.
WT Economist,
True, but just being a W-2 employee is NO assurance you’ll get your UEI no-questions-asked! When I left the bank to go independent we had an ecstasy-eatin’, tramp stamp-wearin’ overall useless 26 y.o “office mgr.” that couldn’t get anything right.
Our “branch mgr.” ( it was later revealed ) had done un-authorized trades for a client that had been in and out of a coma and was having an affair w/ Ms. Trampstamp. Just t-r-y explaining ‘that’ situation to a gov. worker that spends most of their day processing claims for landscape workers?
How many cases have we heard where after-the-fact the former boss decides that “They weren’t fired, so-and-so just up and quit!” Really..? There -have- times over the last few months where I ‘wish’ I could filed a claim but being a 1099 has more positives than neg’s. IMHO.
Just for kicks, do a google search for images on the phrase “tramp stamp”.
= arse antlers = slag tags.
Too funny! Hate those things with a passion. Have to admit that if I EVER saw a visible tattoo on an interviewee that’s the end of the interview.
Applicants have showed up in the past with tattoos on the hands, forearms, and neck. This is for a job where you’re customer facing.
It’s only going to get worse. Oh, and don’t get me started on the piercings. How are you suppose to take a man or woman seriously with a hunk of something sticking out the side of their nose.
I’m not religious, but isn’t there something in the bible about the mark of the devil, blah, blah and how people will enthusiastically branish is so on, and so on.
More aviation fun! Airport Hangar Condo Association racks up $600/day in legal fees trying to evict man living in hangar:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/civil/article1014119.ece
What a mess.
Sounds like there’s a lot more story to this story, though.
If it’s a publicly-owned airport, there is a good chance that nobody “owns” the hangars, all the hangars have short/long term leases (reason being, they don’t want to have limited/valuable hangar space tied up in bankrupcy, it’s a lot easier to evict someone violating a lease). Every public airport I’ve personally seen prohibits turning the hangar into living space.
(One guy I know got around this by parking his Winnebago in the hangar).
If it’s a publicly-owned airport, there is a good chance that nobody “owns” the hangars …
Why organize as a condo association, then (per the story) — doesn’t that imply the hangars are owned by individuals?
Depends on what the hell a “hangar condo” is.
Could be just their name for the local airport tenants club/association…….a bunch that organizes all the bi#ching to the airport manager.
“….imply the hangars are owned by individuals……”
Of all blogs, everyone on this blog knows that the word “owned” has a lot of definitions.
And it assumes that the reporter got his/her’s facts straight.
Depends on what the hell a “hangar condo” is.
Yeah, I don’t exactly get the concept, but I assume it was dreamed up because of tax or liability issues, or blatant profit potential.
Of all blogs, everyone on this blog knows that the word “owned” has a lot of definitions.
True enough … I should’ve put owned in quotes myself.
Whoops. I misinterpreted the article speed-reading. The assessment to each owner is $600.
I don’t even know where to start with this one. It’s basically everything wrong with beach development.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/environment/wildlife/article1014073.ece
Muggy, that is incredible
A) the stupidity to construct such large structures right on the shore of islands that are made of SAND
B) The gall of the pols to want to shovel the temporary fix charges onto taxpayers.
What do you do, tear those things down or what?
I have seen a similar thing on St. Pete Beach. The surfers in Pinellas go to Upham Beach because of the waves caused by the pass, which was created by a hurricane. Of course, now there is a ton of erosion there. If you enter “Upham Beach Park” into google maps, you can see an aerial of the T-Groins — large sandbags the county has placed there to stem the erosion. When I moved here, the beach was up to that condo building’s wall.
So, to answer your question, no, you don’t tear them down. You get taxpayers to subsidize your insane development under the guise of “coastal preservation.”
You get taxpayers to subsidize your insane development under the guise of “coastal preservation.”
The whole “coastal preservation” canard sticks in my craw. Who was I having a discussion with recently about planners vs. politicians and developers?
The coastal preservation issue is an excellent example of the push-pull dynamic where sensible planning has been on the losing end. The planners and scientists know what coastal areas need — more easements, more non-polluted alluvial flow from estuaries and rivers, more low-tech, long-term, anti-erosion measures, less concern about maintaining beaches in a fixed location or fixed condition, fewer humans, and far less development of any sort in inherently ephemeral coastal areas. Hardly any politicians want to hear that sort of thing, of course, because what it amounts to is less people, less power, fewer jobs, a smaller tax base, and tightly controlled development.
So we end up with the half-arsed chicken-wire-and-chewing-gum solutions that masquerade as “coastal preservation,” when in fact what they mean is A.) trying to micro-manage a complex ecosystem so the beaches stay wide and pretty, and B.) maintaining those all-holy property values.
I hope this works: http://tinyurl.com/n4o7gc
Mrs. Bianchini said, “except a few — pardon my expression — wackadoos who like sea turtles”.
What an a-hole. Wants to live on the ocean, just doesn’t want to be inconvenienced by any of the animals that live in it. Since I live in Palm Beach county, I’m supposed to pay through my taxes to help this woman? I think not.
Those doofuses are truely and literally “at loggerheads” with the reality of the beach geology.
Note that these kinds of developments could not exist without federally subsidized flood insurance. And in Florida, all ocean front developments will eventually wash into the sea. The currents and storms are not static. In order to mitigate this, federal, state & local governments are continually spending millions to poor sand onto constantly eroding beaches.
So a developer borrows a ton of money from banksters to build one of these atrocities. It usually cuts off beach access to us non-wealthy types. They sell out at top dollar and leave it to taxpayers to forever pick up the tab to keep them from washing into the sea.
All the while they cry “property rights” when the government tries to stop these kinds of things. Hypocrites.
If you are a Floridian, please give the Florida Home Town Democracy Act a good study and vote your conscience.
“HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY (Bay News 9) — A woman who was reported missing Saturday afternoon was found dead inside a public storage unit early Sunday morning.
Damon Scott reported his wife Terrie missing on Saturday after she went to a public storage in Brandon to get some items from a friend’s storage unit. The manager said he last saw her around 2:45 p.m. when she drove her car to the unit.”
http://tinyurl.com/lrtzvo
This is going to be another subset of the bubble, IMHO. Some storage facilities in Florida are basically operating like tent cities. Like the airport hangar guy, people are moving in due to circumstance. There is an industrial mini office park down the street from me where a lot of niche repair shops are, and it’s obvious at night, when you drive by, that people are living there — hanging out, smoking and drinking with the garage door up.
Wow…can’t imagine doing that here in Texas. At least not this time of year. Used a storage locker for a couple months when I was moving and wow…hard to spend more than a few minutes inside there during the afternoon. Metal storage buildings and summer Texas heat are not my idea of a habitable situation.
RE: Metal storage buildings and summer Texas heat are not my idea of a habitable situation.
Throw in a lack of Porto-Potties and it’s a real stinker of a situation!
Hillsborough County is where Tampa is located. The Gulf of Mexico has a big influence on the climate, so in many respects the climate is similar to what you would find in Houston this time of year.
A public storage facility in Tampa in the summertime is not a place where you want to spend any more time than necessary.
A lot of these places are air-conditioned in Florida. Not so much for the heat, but the humidity will destroy a lot of stuff you might have in storage.
Sounds like a NY liberal’s idea of a Texas prison. Now non-criminals are in that situation just because they are poor.
I’ve been seeing more people living out of their cars in Tucson.
Slim, I can’t imagine living in a car in Tuscon. It’s 100+ at 3 a.m. sometimes. If it got that bad for me I would at least drive to Prescott, or Flag, or come out here to Venice, CA with all the other car-people.
I can’t either. I’m also seeing more members of the Shopping Cart Precision Drill Team.
Ditto in Phoenix- whole families.
Hey I want one of those as a hacker hangout. It will be air conditioned.
I was checking out the FHFA Home Price Index (HPI) data last night.
FYI the FHFA is the result of the merger between the OFHEO and FHFB, via the Housing and Economic Recovery Act from last year.
For whatever reason the historical data in the transition changed. The quarteryly national index was “re-based” on 1991, and has changed a lot:
- It only includes data going back to 1991 now, whereas the previous OFHEO data went back to 1975.
- The index value is much lower (presumably due to the re-basing) - e.g. 1991 is now 100, whereas the OFHEO value for 1991 was 167.45. As a result - the peak of the FHFA data is 224, whereas the peak of the OFHEO data was 386.
- The FHFA data shows a different curve - with prices peaking at the same time but with a slightly lower peak, and with a steeper downslope on the backside.
Anyone with any thoughts as to why?
I’ll post a graph in a sec…
Here is the graph:
Shiller vs OFHEO vs FHFA vs CPI
OK so nevermind - I found out. Interesting data nonetheless.
The former OFHEO data actually still is kept. There are two pieces of data now:
- “Purchase-only” data is the new data - green line
- “All-transactions” is the former OFHEO HPI data - bright red line. This includes appraisals from refinancing.
It’s interesting that the latter now is quite a bit higher than purchase-only. It indicates what we’ve been saying for some time now - that the “mark-to-market” values for refinancing are getting further and further away from true home values, as indicated by actual sales.
Oh, now I feel so much better. All we have to do is put our seat belt on as the Shiller graph turns left 90 degrees to land on the CPI. Why was I worried anyway? Hey, wheres the flight attendent? I want to buy a beer and some napkins.
I just got back from visiting a friend in St. Augustine, FL. Lovely place, with multiple houses for sale on every block. I’d move there too, but I think I’ve seen enough saggy, leathery skin to last me a lifetime.
Anyone want to buy a new place with me and split it up like a time share?
> saggy, leathery skin
Alligators… I hope?
>Anyone want to buy a new place with me and split it up like a time share?
I am IN. As mentioned before I love saltwater fishing and may eventually buy a place in FL solely for this purpose. Of course you have to not mind the dead fish carcass and the dead fish smell in the house.
dead fish carcass and the dead fish smell in the house ??
Practice Catch & Release….:)
>Practice Catch & Release….:)
I only do that with girls I pick up.
That is hysterical and the main reason I won’t move to AZ or NV.
Just as a point of information, I just renewed my lease at a 20% discount. I figure it is costing me about half what it would be to ‘own’ the property. When I first moved in back in 2007, we considered buying, but I felt the market was overheated. They wanted $580,000.
NOW the property is worth about $330,000. In the past two years, the landlord has had to replace the A/C- $4000, remarcite the pool - $3000, new disshwasher -$400, new toilets - $400, and now has to retile the entire house - $6000. They will also need to replace the roof soon at about $35-40k. I told the landlord either take it or leave it, as there are about 2 dozen other places available.
They keep asking me if I want to lease/option to buy, and I just laugh. I estimate that had I been dumb enough to buy at the top, I would have lost about $250,000 in the price plus two years of paying about $4000 a month in mortgage/taxes/insurance plus any down payment.
So, to summarize had I bought in 2007, I would have lost
$30000 down payment
$80,000 in payments ( as about 99% would have gone to interest)
$250,000 in depreciation
$13,800 in repairs/upkeep
$(50,000 in rent)
$323,800 total
No to mention the costs of buying and selling.
Of course this does not reflect things like the tax writeoff, but I have to assume others are in similar situations. I cannot see how it makes any sense even at this time to buy. The numbers don’t add up. I can rent a 5 bedroom, 3 bath 3000sq ft house with a pool for $2000 a month. Prices have to fall another 15-20% for it to make sense to buy.
Where are you located, Bigdaddy63?
Two grand a month for 3000 sf is unreal in any market.
I live in South Florida- Palm beach County. There are two foreclosures in my development and another 4 for sale. The last foreclosure went for in the LOW 200’s! OUCH There are still sellers that are delusional and want in the 400’s. A few in the high 300’s. The last few sales were in the low to mid 3’s. Basically 2003-2004 prices.
Yes, I know it’s a bargain, but I made sure to tell the landlord that I have been a stellar tenant- never late- did things to the house on my own, etc. They are out of state owners that are scared the house is going to sit empty. I’m thinking of signing a multiple year lease. I’ve owned houses and did lease options, and from my experience they are terrible for the buyer. More than 50% of the time the buyer never ends up buying, and the premium is thrown away.
If you figure here in Palm Beach the taxes are about $7000, the insurance about $5000, the mortgage would be about $30000 a year, the carry costs are about $42000- without lawn, pool, cable, maintenence, HOA, etc. I figure a conservative $4000 a month to “own” vs. $2000 to rent. $24,000 a year.
Prices have to increase about 3% year for the next 5 years for it to make sense to buy, and we all know that is a fairy tail. I’ve owned for years, and I can’t tell you what I would have done if I had bought. I can only imagine what some of my neighbors that bought in the 500’s are doing now. They are screwed beyond belief.
“I’m thinking of signing a multiple year lease”
My lease is upin 2 months. Last year I went from 800 to 750. This year there are now places in the same complex for 650-700. So when is the time to sign a longer lease? Just wondering if it will be 550 to 600 next year. I guess its just trying to time the market, but what factors will cause rents to rise again???
A good rule of thumb I have used over the years is to multiply your monthly rent amount ( either paying or receiving) x 120 to come up with a ballpark value for the property. Now this is mostly for invesment purposes, but it will get you in the ballpark.
I still laugh at the homes for sale at $400- $500k, but are also looking to rent out at $2000- $2500. They simply don’t make sense.
To be honest, I wouldn’t buy it right now even at $250k. Where’s the incentive? All I have to do right now is pay the rent and my utilities. I’m not tied down to this property, and if something breaks, it’s not my problem.
I did a buy vs. rent even at $250k and based on today’s market, it doesn’t make sense.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/2007_BUYRENT_GRAPHIC.html#
I used
$2k rent
$250k purchase
10% down
6.1% mortgage
6250 annual property tax
200 month HOA
5000 annual insurance
1% increase in value of home
0% increase in rent
I have to share a funny story. There was this realtywhore that has a home in my development for rent, similar to mine. They were asking $2900 a month. I called them up and asked them why they felt the house was worth $2900 a month when there are dozens around about a grand a month cheaper. She snapped back very rudely that she will have no problem renting it out.
That was over a month ago. It’s still sitting empty.
So to all those that are wondering, there are many that are still in denial.
You could tell them that if they want to sell, you’d buy for 250k. Otherwise you’re fine renting.
If they offer you a lease with an option to buy again, just ask them how much of a discount they will give you. After all, they should have to pay to accept a property right with no value.
new toilets - $400,
What you guys eatin’ down in Florida?
“What you guys eatin’ down in Florida?”
Blackened grouper, chicken salteado, filet, mushrooms, PCP, General Tso’s Felis Catus, Karenia brevis. The basics.
PIPP PIPP Hooray??
Toxic Assets (PPIP) Death Rattle -
Remember, folks, that the DOW surged by more than 500 points, a 7% gain, on the day the PPIP was announced. Now we find out that this plan to “rid the banks of toxic assets” is on its deathbed:
A look at why the program has stumbled underscores how difficult it has been to solve one of the economy’s biggest problems: Mountains of bad debt sitting on the books of the nation’s banks. As those loans and securities lose value, they are saddling the banks with losses and constricting their ability to lend.
The real problem is this: The banks have been and still are lying about the value of these loans.
Nowhere is this more evident in the mortgage arena. People are being “allowed” to remain in homes where they have stopped paying the mortgage and banks are sitting on the foreclosure process.
Why? Because if they foreclose and sell the house they are forced to book the loss. But if they “forget” to foreclose they can hide the fact that there’s an embedded loss, sometimes as much as 50%, from both regulators and shareholders!
The same thing is going on in Commercial Real Estate. Rather than force the defaults that are occurring to be recognized and foreclosed, the banks are “pretending and extending” terms. That is, ignoring the default and extending the terms of loans even though they are not performing, as this way they can (and are) avoiding taking the write-down.
This is accounting fraud, by the way, but nobody in the regulatory or law enforcement apparatus of this country seems to care.
When PPIP was proposed I noted the fact that banks were not taking realistic marks; this has not changed.
Nor am I alone in this:
Citigroup’s $1.6 billion in first-quarter profit would vanish if accounting were more stringent, says Martin Weiss of Weiss Research Inc. in Jupiter, Florida. “The big banks’ profits were totally bogus,” says Weiss, whose 38-year-old firm rates financial companies. “The new accounting rules, the stress tests: They’re all part of a major effort to put lipstick on a pig.”
Further deterioration of loans will eventually force banks to recognize losses that their bookkeeping lets them ignore for now, says David Sherman, an accounting professor at Northeastern University in Boston. Janet Tavakoli, president of Tavakoli Structured Finance Inc. in Chicago, says the government stress scenarios underestimate how bad the economy may get.
The simple fact of the matter is that for the PPIP to “work” assets must be sold into it at somewhat of a realistic price.
But if banks do that, they will be forced to recognize losses they (in conspiracy with their regulators, including The Fed, OTS, OCC and Treasury) have been hiding for the last two years - losses that are sufficient to force all of them under critical Tier Capital Ratios and thus subject them to FDIC seizure and liquidation.
We should have done the right thing and forced recognition of fair-market-value of these securities and whole loans, sent in the FDIC and closed these institutions.
We still should.
Even if they’re “big banks.”
The longer we wait the more damage our economy will take when, not if, the mounting losses are recognized.
PPIP will do nothing to alleviate the problem, exactly as I predicted, because for it to “work” the banks would have to admit their insolvency, and there is zero political or regulatory will to make that happen.
But to clear the credit markets and allow the economy to truly recover, that admission and subsequent clearing must happen.
(From K. Denninger)
So the market should give up those gains, right? Especially the financials?
Very good points, but nothing will be done.
I fully expect an insane “New Future” with 15% unemployment (on average), and homeless people squatting in $100,000 houses that are still “valued” at $300,000 by zombie banks that are only still in business thanks to TARP and Bailouts.
Kunstler with another knockout:
“Like the United States, Michael Jackson was spectacularly bankrupt, reportedly in the range of $800-million, which is rather a lot for an individual. Had he lived on a few more years, he might have qualified for his own TARP program”
Muggy,
Too funny. And what was that w/ one of the princes of Bahrain? They were working on several projects together like an album or something? Pretty obvious that the only ‘project’ there was about ( pulling tail! )
Hey girls! You’ll never guess who is hanging out at ‘my’ pad!?
See? Now “I” am just as ‘cool’ as Michael. We hang out together and everything.
Maybe his buddy Jesse Jackson trained him on how to do the shakedown. I heard his debt was about $400 million. At what dollar amount would one change the word “debt” to “theft?” But that would be too politically incorrect, I’m sure.
WOW
My favorite online curmudgeon has “Out Kunzlered” himself with that one.
This paragraph in particular is vividly and disturbingly savage.
“and indeed the nation seemed to emulate him as its culture became dedicated more and more to acting out masturbation fantasies. America was a fat man jerking off on the sofa watching a vampire of no particular sex vogue deliriously on the boob tube”
Kunzler has never been one to dance around an issue. He much prefers to reach right in and rip the stitches out but I do get a sense with his recent columns that he is perhaps almost a little disappointed that America hasn’t already crashed and burned.
I take a certain guilty pleasure in the vicious shadenfreude of Kunzlers observations but even I don’t want to stare that directly at the heart of darkness.
That’s what happens when you release 3 good albums pretty quickly, then 1 meh album and one crap album over the next 10 years, but keep living like you’re releasing blockbuster albums every other year.
Didn’t Michael Jackson own most of the Beatles music catalog? That’s why there were so many commercials set to Beatles music. No member of the Beatles would have gone for that if they owned the rights to their music (well, I don’t know about Ringo).
That alone should have kept him rolling in dough.
Poor Michael, trying to buy his way to happiness. It worked about as well for him as it does for anyone.
IIRC Jackson owned the sheet music catalog, not the audio recordings.
“……trying to buy his way to happiness.”
I’ve met a BUNCH of rich people. NONE of them were what I would consider unhappy.
I wouldn’t turn down a $200 million lotto prize. I wouldn’t mind trying to “buy my way to happiness” at least once.
If I will the Lotto, I will:
-Set up an endowment to financially support the HBB.
-Name Ben the “King of Schadenfreude”………..find a development with a bunch of abandoned flipper houses, buy it for 10 cents on the dollar, and name it “Schadenfreude-land”.
-Hire a bunch of tour buses…..offer the HBB’ers prepackaged tours of FUBAR developments. Have “Jim the Realtor” as the tour guide.
I’m sure I can come up with some more creative stuff…..
“Set up an endowment to financially support the HBB.”
Why not let the free market support the HBB?
Commie!
Great point.
When his heart stopped last week, he was living in a Hollywood mansion that rented for several hundred thousand dollars a month. You wonder how the landlord cashed those checks.
Now I don’t know how much Hollywood mansion sells for, but renting for several hundred thousand dollars a month? Say it’s $300K/month, he could have bought his own $18M mansion in 5 years.
Of course, he was planning on going to London for many months and would be living there for a while. Not to mention, I am sure the tour company LLC was renting the place and it was a business deduction.
Maybe the $300K per month included, staff, utilities, security ? But still is a lot.
Housing in Peril as Obama Fails to Get Financing Breakthrough…
June 29 (Bloomberg) — Driving through Riverside, California, Bruce Norris pointed to a half-dozen empty houses with “For Sale” signs stuck in untended lawns that he said investors might buy if banks would just extend some credit.
“People today look at us as the enemy,” said Norris, 57, head of Riverside-based Norris Group, which purchases and renovates homes to rent or sell. “That’s a big problem for housing because if we can’t get the financing we need, a lot of these properties are going to sit vacant.”
Four months after President Barack Obama pledged $275 billion to shore up home sales, the engine that powered every U.S. recovery since 1960 is stalled. Bankers’ reluctance to finance buyers who won’t live in properties is one barrier to a turnaround. Stricter qualifying rules and a rise in the cost of residential loans to 5.42 percent have impeded new mortgage lending, which is at a 13-year low. An inventory of 2.1 million unoccupied houses on the market, created by the fastest foreclosure pace in history, may be a drag on a revival.
The $8,000 first-time homebuyer tax credit in the U.S. economic stimulus package and a government program to subsidize some mortgage payments have had little effect, according to Eric Belsky, executive director of Harvard University’s Joint Center for Housing Studies in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
“It hasn’t been much more than a see-sawing of data,” Belsky said in an interview. “Housing has led the U.S. economy out of every recession for at least 50 years, and for that to happen again more stimulus is going to be needed.”
“It hasn’t been much more than a see-sawing of data,” Belsky said in an interview. “Housing has led the U.S. economy out of every recession for at least 50 years, and for that to happen again more stimulus is going to be needed.”
I think it all depends on your definition of “led”…
Ummm, excuse me for asking this, but isn’t housing reactive to what is happening in other sectors of the economy. Meaning that it’s a follower, rather than a leader?
It’s called out of the frying pan and into the fire. Yes housing led us out of prior recessions but look out below.
LOS ANGELES — Somewhere on earth, there must be a more difficult task than this: persuading American mortgage companies to lower payments for homeowners who can no longer afford their loans. But as Karina Montenegro struggles to accomplish this feat for a troubled borrower, she strains to imagine a more futile pursuit.
Ms. Montenegro, an intern at a local company that seeks loan modifications, dials Washington Mutual to check on the status of an application for a homeowner whose income has plummeted. She endures a Muzak-scored purgatory while on hold. Syrupy-voiced customer service representatives chide her for landing in the wrong department. She learns that the documents her company sent in have simply vanished — for the third time since November.
“I don’t know what happened,” says a customer service officer who identifies himself as Chris. “I don’t know if there was a glitch in the system, whether it was transferred from one call center to the other.”
Think of the documents as being part of a pile massing inside the bank, Chris suggests. “This pile is not going to be moved forward at any point in time.”
Ms. Montenegro and her colleagues suffer these sorts of excruciating exchanges all day long. It is a potent indication of the difficulties afflicting the $75 billion taxpayer-financed program created by the Obama administration in an effort to avoid foreclosure for as many as four million distressed homeowners.
Under the plan, the government offers mortgage companies $1,000 for each loan they agree to modify, then another $1,000 a year for up to three years.
Hanging in the balance is more than the fate of individual homeowners. The administration portrays its mortgage program as a crucial piece of its broader effort to restore vigor to the economy. If the effort fails, foreclosures will continue to surge and home prices will probably keep falling, sowing fresh losses in the financial system and threatening to crimp credit anew for businesses and households.
Why would they want to modify a loan when that encourages
a) cost them a lot of money if they own the loan
b) cost them a lot of time if they have to figure out who they sold it to and get them to agree to the loan modification.
And assuming that the loan servicing is set up so they can modify at will without permission, doing so will
c) Encourage that person to redefault and ask for another modification.
b) Encourage all other mortgagees to default and ask for modification.
You forgot to add changes it from a non recourse to recourse loan, whereby they CAN come after you in the event you default.
Does it? I thought if it was a modification and not a refinance, the original terms that aren’t being tossed out (amount owed, interest rate, adjustable part removed) would still be in force.
Because if they don’t modify it, they’ll own it without ANY cash flow.
Oopsie.
The problem is, they probably think the economy will come back soon and people will get jobs just as quickly.
I’ve got bad news for them. Ain’t gonna happen.
I submitted loan modification paperwork to Wells Fargo and it disappeared also. I find this interesting. And in case you care, I have 20% down in the deal. No idea how people got these 0 % down deals. Not here.
Demand a digital copy of everything and send the PDF yourself (repeatedly if necessary). Sometimes you have to do the job for them. They are purposely losing them. It is in their interest (literally- as long as you keep paying) to do so.
If you can’t get copies, then you’ll KNOW they will lose it over and over.
I HATE Wells Fargo w/ a passion. I bought raw land years ago and had a 5 yr balloon at 8%. Never missed a payment- i usually made double payments. Lost track of time and had to refinance the loan… They wanted 13+%. I called CHASE and had them send me a chk for $25K+/- at 5.9% fixed. Then I brought it in to Wells and paid off the loan. I ask for my title. Repeatedly, for over a year- even threatened a lawsuit. They could care less. I sold the property and never saw the title. Paid the remainder of the loan and banked the rest. I will never do business with them again EVER.
deed- duh.
Well since she’s calling Washington Mutual, which is now owned by Chase, could that be the problem why she can’t get loan modifications?
There was discussion on this blog two years ago about how the paperwork on these properties has been sliced, diced and traded so many times, that in some cases it could be impossible for anyone to figure out who actually owned the paper.
Maybe ALL the homeowners and FBers should do the patriotic thing to get to the bottom of things, and stop making payments; the banks have no incentive to clean up the mess, as long as they are generating payments/income.
Between the size of this mess, and the incentives that the PTB have to drag the process out, this thing could easily drag out to 2020, if left to it’s own devices.
“Under the plan, the government offers mortgage companies $1,000 for each loan they agree to modify, then another $1,000 a year for up to three years.”
Got a letter from WAMU addresed to my LL on Saturday,
“Under the plan, the government offers mortgage companies $1,000 for each loan they agree to modify, then another $1,000 a year for up to three years.”
Got a letter from WAMU addressed to my LL on Saturday, I opened it by (accident). Turns out they have not made a payment since March. Funny thing they have been calling me on the fifth of the last few months asking for the rent to be paid so they can stay current. WAMU want`s about $6,000 for them to get current, they have already told me they don`t have my last and security and they are 2 days away from being down another payment. I am guessing they need this rent money to stay current on their house (bought at the peak) on Long Island. The LL is at least $100,000 upside down on this place but the WAMU letter asked if they wanted to apply for a loan modification. Now what is $1,000 up front and a $1,000 a year going to do? Oh, and they took $40,000 out in a refi before they left in 05 and I have never missed a rent payment.
You might want to start looking for a new place.
I have been putting in low offers for months and there are lots of houses for rent. No worries for me, my LL is another story.
Can you stop paying the rent?
Do you think you’ll get your deposit back?
Bloomberg News: cash is king as everything else is overpriced:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&sid=aSSzKSJaiuGM
“Investors are moving in lockstep like never before, driving up stocks, commodities and emerging markets and risking a replay of last year, when they all plunged the most since World War II.”
The counter argument: what if stocks, commodities and emerging markets aren’t going up, but instead the value of cash is going down because they keep making more of it?
RiverSource is using corporate bonds rated A, BBB and BB by S&P to protect against losses in other markets, Joy said. Jack Ablin, who oversees $60 billion as chief investment officer at Harris Private Bank in Chicago, raised cash to lower risk and is shunning traditional diversification strategies such as buying Treasury bonds on concern that increased government borrowing will erode returns. ???
As we’ve seen corporate bonds are far from safe. When the sht hit the fan treasuries did better
finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=1y&s=VFITX&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=vbmfx
Is that correlation between markets the result of heard mentality or of a central market manipulation?
150 years for Madoff .
Very good indication that he is completely refusing to cooperate with the prosecutors looking into his family and other close connections.
On the positive side, I don’t think they assign people with sentences that long to minimum security. Might be wrong, but I think there is some rule.
I hope they assign him to a federal “pound-you-in-the-behind” prison.
It would make sense not to put him in a minimum security place - it’s too easy to walk from those places. With a 150 year sentence, he’s an obvious “flight risk”.
Speak of the devil….here’s a news story on that aspect.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Experts-weigh-in-with-tips-on-cnnm-2599361605.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=7&asset=&ccode=
Aren’t there people, on this blog, who believe non-violent offenders should be paroled or alternatively sentenced? Interesting, that Madoff fits into that category. I also find it interesting that the rehabilitation (non-punishment) crowd are completely silenced by the hordes carrying pitchforks and hanging nooses looking for the nearest tree. Rant off.
They said on Money.com today that someone with a federal conviction and sentence of over 10 years does not go to the camps. They have to go into a federal prison’s general population.
YES But Madoff HURT hundreds of people,
He just wasn’t picked up smoking weed under a highway with the radio aHHbalastin…..LOL
I just checked the value on my Columbia, SC house and it says $95,000 which is great since I paid a bit over $70,000 for it in 2000. Given the stories I read on the blog, I expected the value to be closer to $50,000. Does anyone know how Zillow works and if it can be way, way off?
If someone wants to check it is on Maybank Street, Columbia, 29204.
if it can be way, way off?
Yes
Since you bought in 2000, you probably won’t wind up too underwater no matter what.
A house in my n’hood has a zestimate of $338,972 and it is for sale @ $198,000. What a bargain, $140K below market! Better act now before it’s gone! It would probably fetch $175,000 in today’s market. Zillow excludes all comps whose price is deemed too low. The property in question was sold as a foreclosure for $110K earlier this year. It was on the market for about 9 month, the price was reduced several times. But Zillow won’t include it because it was not a “legitimate” sale. According to Zillow legitimate sales are only those at vastly inflated prices that include mortage fraud, at least that seems to be the case in my n’hood.
I used to live on Covenant road between 2 notch & Beltline…way back.
Worked for tv 19 and 25
What was the peak “Zestimate”?
Hey, I’ve got a side question on Zillow. A few months ago, they stopped showing zestimates of my neighborhood. Now, they only disclose the tax value. Any reason for this? No comps? Scared ****less? Subterfuge?
IMO Zillow is anywhere from 10-20% overpricing house values. If you really want to get scared, check out the value of your house on AOL real estate. It’s more in line with true market prices bu using real comps. I’ve seen realtors and owners play games with values on ZIllow, often inflating them greatly when they want to sell it. Take a look at the graphs on some of the houses for sale in your area to see what I mean.
Scary if that is true, since lenders such as DITEC (did I spell that right?) uses Zillow for its appraisals. My daughter was turned down for a modification on the basis of Zillow’s value and no appraiser ever actually saw the property.
This is really interesting. I looked up my old house in San Jose.
I sold in May 2006 for $670K.
House sold in foreclosure in Aug. 2008 for $540K.
Present Zestimate is $478K.
Present AOL/Cyberhomes is $371K.
That’s a big difference in the two current estimates.
AOL has my house and land valued at $1,108,800. Zillow values it at $754,000. If I were to sell this house today the Zillow price would be closer to what I could get for it.
Also Zillow has my house in the wrong location . AOL has it where it actually is.
Both services have a lot to be desired. But then again you get what you pay for.
In the neighborhood where you are looking, take a look at what homes have recently sold for (data also on Zillow), and look at what Zillow is pricing the recently sold homes at.
In the neighborhoods I am looking at I see a range, generally about 20% overpriced, but occasionally, something comes in at about 0%. It’s almost as if everyone is pricing off of Zillow, and there are still some suckers out there who are offering the ask, but 80%+ are getting their homes at about 20% less than the Zillow number.
Not getting specific, I have had money, and I have had none. Any idiot who says money does not, generally, equal happiness, is as, I said, an idiot. In short, it CAN buy anything. Depends on your moral framework. See Michael Jacson, Elvis, for point 50% contra, and, blah, etc.
There is old saying, “Voluntary poverty appeals only to the wealthy”
LMAO!! Go! Chile Dad!!!
If i wasn’t at home having a couple pints of ale while the wife and mini-chile visit mom’s mom tonight, I’d say this is a heck of synergy.
But I got mad at all 43,000 of my co-workers and came home instead before I sent an email that would get me fired. And got me a slab of Boston’s finest locally brewed IPA at a buck a pop. So instead…coinicidence?!?!?
I think money can buy happiness, but not contentedness.
Happiness is fleeting, contentedness is a long-term positive feeling about yourself and your situation. If you feel contented, there are still situations that make you very unhappy, but overall, you can surivive them.
A certain amount of money is necessary for contentedness, but that number is different for everyone.
My opinion, at least.
Overdog, that is a good point. I read it three times before answering.
I’ve always thought that money can’t buy happiness, but it’s far better to be miserable and wealthy than miserable and poor.
Hey, Elanor, I am miserable ( Oly ain’t around no mas), poor, unemployed, spam ridden, and, considering the above, who cares about money?
Hummm….Shakes middle aged ATE-UP head, and says my previous points were meaningless…
ATE-UP, what happened to Oly? Pleeez don’t tell me she wrote a GBCW letter or got banned. I couldn’t imagine either of those things happening. Or is she so depressed by a world without Michael Jackson and Billy Mays that she went off to live with the Geoducks?
Maybe Olympiagal was Michael Jackson. We’re thru the looking glass.
Actually, Oly posted about MJ’s death, so she couldn’t be MJ. Might have been Billy Mays, though, which would be even more disturbing.
I wonder where Oly Gal is Elanor.
Why is Oly no longer around?
EXACTLY. WHERE IS OLY GAL?
ATE-UP:
YOU were the one that said she (Oly) wasn’t around.
I’m confused.
rfw ATE-UP = ADHD. Meaning…Oh, well. Nevermind.
ATE-UP: Sounds to me like you have worked very hard and that you’ve encountered a rough patch. It bothers me that your employer responded to your request for a raise with his 1099 proposal. Just don’t lose your cool - consider all your options and go with what is best for you. Best of luck to you, man.
And I miss Oly too - and her tangential flights of fancy!
She probably went to utah where she has no internet. ’she must have a newphew or neice getting married and she’ll be home soon.
I posted another, and Thank You Re hobbyist for your kind comments, although you know, we all have crap in our l;ives. But, seriously. whre is Oly? I am sad if she is gone. Lad left you know.
OK HBBer’s I need some help here.
My wife’s dad just called. He’s 86yo, still in good health and sound mind, has some property in FL that he bought 40+ years ago as an “investement”, and never sold. I’m not sure where the property is, but that’s not of concern at the moment. He lives in TX in a retirement-type community and doesn’t need to sell.
He got a call, entirely unsolicited, from an outfit that refers to itself as Equimax in Largo FL. They said they had offers of $50K for his two properties, but he needed to send $799 to them first in order to sell. When he said he thought that was a lot, they reduced it to $300.
My response was uncharacteristically swift and severe (for me) with him. I said, don’t do it, please! This sets off all the alarrm bells that it possibly could, I believe he’s being targeted. I told him we would research it, but of course they told him that he needed to respond today, and we’re about ready to head off on vacation. I did persuade him to hold off, I think. My advice was, if they have an offer, have them send him a contract, and we would help him secure a real estate attorney to look it over. But no money up front.
If anyone has any comments or insight, please share it here if you have a few minutes. Has anyone heard of this outfit? Unfortunately we’re going to get in a car for the next 9-10 hours, so I won’t be able to check internet until late tonight, and I won’t be able to engage anyone in back-and-forth about this during the day. But I will most certainly check to see what folks have said and I’ll post updates in future days’ threads. Thanks for your help!
I’ll confess to drumming up more than a little business* via cold calling. That being said, I concur with the above.
When someone calls saying that you need to send them money in order for them to do something, your alarm should be going “Whoop! Whoop! Whoop!”
*Web design and development business, that is.
Tell ya what, send me $399 and I’ll tell you what you should do.
Seriously, you’re kidding right?
Yeah, no kidding. Assuming he’d sell for that price, I’d reply with, “Just take the $300 from the $50K you owe me for the properties and send me a final check for $49,700.”
I say it’s a scam for sure.
Another thing that’s slimy about these companies is that they target the elderly.
In the case of the aforementioned father in law, it’s not hard to figure out that he’s elderly — he’s owned the property for 40 years, and that can be verified through public records.
Unfortunately, it’s quite easy to prey on the elderly, because, in many cases, they’re not in full possession of their faculties and/or they don’t hear well. My own family is dealing with this right now, and, let me tell you, it’s not fun.
My mom is convinced that my dad was stashing gold and silver coins somewhere…..not in a safe deposit box, he was a “stuff the mattress type. I remember when I was a kid that he had a bunch of uncirculated 1964 Kennedy half-dollars.
Alzheimer’s hit him pretty quick. Started getting super-paranoid, among other things.
If he was stashing stuff, we’ll never know for sure. They never turned up after he passed.
REhobbyist: Thank you. What you said meant a lot to me.
Generally, iftheshoefits, Me, as everone else here would say, don’t send anyone money without up-front consideration for your money. Really, that is about it.
Really, what legitimate business calls up and says send me money, up front, right now & I’ll send you back $50,000? Please.
Have him tell them, that as they are acting as brokers for the purchasers, they can get their fee from the purchasers when the sale is complete. Then tell them he will be delighted to have his attorney call their attorney in a few days and ask them for the firm that they use. Then ask them to provide a copy of their brokers license.
If that doesn’t scare them off completely, check the company with the Better Business Bureau and also find out if they are registered to do business in Texas and/or Florida. Find out if either state has an elder abuse hotline that covers this sort of thing, not just kids stealing from their parents.
Yes, I think the whole thing is a scam. What reputable company offers to sell someone land that they don’t own? Your response also works.
http://www.Equi-max.com
Appears they’re an accredited business with the Better Business Bureau. Might worth seeing if anyone’s logged any complaints against them.
Sorry to say, but being accredited by the BBB doesn’t mean much.
Akron, OH — A local man charged with bilking homeowners, investors and lenders was sentenced this morning to 16 years in prison.
We need to rework the penal codes so that if you’re sent to prision and have the money, you pay your way through.
That’s unequal punishment, then. Everyone is supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law.
Same issue with the whole car-confiscation thing due to certain infractions (racing, etc).
Thanks to bigdaddy63. I looked it up AOL realestate and the graph was interesting. I know the houses that sold near me and they were foreclosures so that was the big drop. Zillow is way, way off.
10 Year down to 3.48% and trend is broken, follow through from last week.
Even though the manipulation of the Markets is as obvious as can be. At times I marvel at their ability, I’m disgusted, but I still Marvel.
Hong Kong banks killing themselves in mortgage war
Mortgage rates in the city are the lowest in at least 19 years, as far back as records are available, to offset slower demand for other types of credit during Hong Kong’s worst recession in a decade.
Link here
I’m still of the mind that we will see a repeat of Japan aka ultra-low interest rates for the forseeable future in the US. Anyone looking for mortgage rates to climb to 8-10%+ is going to be dissapointed, IMHO. If the 10-yr Treasury yield get’s too high, the PTB will just push another rate, LIBOR for instance…
CNBC is reporting that Fannie Mae’s bloated mortgage portfolio has grown by more than 35% YOY. At the same time, the percentage of delinquent loans has rocketed up to 3.42%.
Are we looking at eventually the mother-of-all-bailouts down the road?
I know that the Fed has promised $1.25 Trillion for F/F - will that even be enough for them? Might the sheer size of these underwater entities, and the fact that they’re held by unaudited institutions, be what’s keeping them mostly off the radar?
P.S. I saw a 35% number, but it wasn’t YoY - it was May over April actually (annualized rate) - though the number jumps around a lot. It was actually only up a slight amount since December.
$787B in Dec
…
$770B in Apr
$789B in May
Good for Amazon, these damn tax everything you can freaks, need to be shot down any chance you get.
Amazon.com Cuts Off Its Affiliates in Rhode Island (Update2)
By Joseph Galante
June 29 (Bloomberg) — Amazon.com Inc., the world’s biggest Internet retailer, cut ties with its Rhode Island business affiliates after the state’s assembly passed legislation requiring the company to collect taxes.
Amazon.com sent a notice to the affiliates last night, said Patty Smith, a spokeswoman for the Seattle-based company. Amazon.com did the same thing to North Carolina affiliates last week over similar legislation in that state.
The company is also fighting tax proposals in California, Connecticut and Hawaii, arguing that Amazon.com shouldn’t have to pay taxes in states where it doesn’t have a physical presence. It has sent letters to lawmakers in those three states, Smith said. It hasn’t cut off business with them yet, she said.
The affiliate program, called Amazon Associates, lets Web site owners make money by posting ads for Amazon.com’s products. The company pays them a referral fee of as much as 15 percent if someone clicks through and buys something.
“In the event that Rhode Island repeals this tax collection scheme, we would certainly be happy to reopen our Associates program to Rhode Island residents,” Amazon.com said in its notice to the affiliates.
So brick and mortars should collect sales tax and cowards hiding behind keyboards shouldn’t?
Such a moral hazard in all your propaganda.
Dang. Post got dropped.
Exeter, I think this is more a matter of a state trying to get interstate commerce taxes which is expressly forbidden by the US Constitution and the company just cut to the root of the problem.
Good for them!
I’ve noticed another trend in my area. Some retail stores are dropping their CC merchant accounts and going strictly cash or checks.
“Some retail stores are dropping their CC merchant accounts and going strictly cash or checks”.
We have a few stores and vendors offering cash discounts, as taxes and fees rise this trend will grow. More “tree-top” fliers, more barter,just the way it is.
Deficit forces California to issue IOUs
By Matthew Garrahan in Los Angeles
Published: June 29 2009 19:26
California is preparing to issue IOUs to its creditors this week as it grapples with an unprecedented cash crunch and prepares to begin its new fiscal year deep in the red.
Once the US’s richest state, California now has the dubious distinction of having the worst credit rating in the country.
We’re number one, we’re number one, we’re number one. Woohoo!
“California is preparing to issue IOUs to its creditors this week as it grapples with an unprecedented cash crunch and prepares to begin its new fiscal year deep in the red.”
I’ll Gladly Pay You Tuesday for a Hamburger Today
Those of you who are old enough to remember disco dancing will probably remember this guy. Wimpy (J. Wellington Wimpy actually) was a lazy, glutinous character in the old Popeye cartoons.
I was born after disco was dead (I think?) but I remember wimpy.
OLY, I, and all of us, (Sorry, but think I am right you friends,) miss you.
Come on, you guys. Let us sing in Uniiisone ( sic?) (Help OLY!!) Where’s OLY????
Oly, please check in so we know you are OK. That’s all that matters.
Greg
ATE-UP/Greg, take a chill pill. That’s like the tenth time you’ve asked where Oly is just today!
Oly’s only been MIA for a matter of a few days. She didn’t say good bye. I don’t think she’s gone. She probably has just had a busy few days at work. Maybe she had a fun weekend too…
Hey Prime! Yeah, you’re right. But we love her, and thanks for the direction. I don’t want to see her go, though.
Was hoping it wouldn’t happen to her but sometimes the ones you love turn against you…..
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068615/
This just in:
12:43PM PST - Olympia Washington Sound
A barefooted, scantily clad young woman was seen this afternoon and described as acting suspiciously. Watchers-by noted that she screamed like a banshee while diving at quickly receding GeoDucks as the tide was quickly coming in.
Those at the scene said the young woman discarded her shovel and dove full force using arms, legs, teeth to try and grasp an enourmous GeoDuck that was recoiling it’s protuberance that has been compared by some to resemble a human male appendage.
One witness at the scene claimed her last words were ” ATE-UP this duck is yours” The young woman was then tugged down through the sand without ever losing grip on the slimy appendage.
the slimy appendage
Yuck.
Oly, How about this one…
Regroup, ( Oly, is it Regroup, or Re-group?) …Anyway, don’t let your heart enter the pixal ( Oly, is it Pixel or Pixal? ) , whatever, universe.
Oly Gal: Universe is spelled, oh heck, how Oly. Night Oly.