July 3, 2009

The Consumer Rules

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “All 40 Murano units were sold yesterday, as well as two more units, in a span of just under two hours - a clear signal that there is a demand for condos in Center City, albeit at much lower prices, according to experts. The lowest winning bid was $335,000 - for a one-bedroom, one-bath unit - and the highest, for a two-bedroom, two-bath unit, was $796,000, according to Accelerated Marketing Partners, which auctioned the units on behalf of the developer. Jon Gollinger, CEOof Accelerated Marketing, said the auction once again proved who was king. ‘This is a watershed event for the Philadelphia condo market, pure and simple,’ he said. “All people have to do is analyze this building in relation to what the consumers paid, and then really extrapolate from that to determine what their properties are worth in the eyes of the consumer. The consumer rules.’”

“Wharton economist Kevin Gillen…said the people who would likely be most upset are those that bought at the Murano recently. ‘When that many units change hands at a significant discount, it sets the market,’ he said. ‘Recent buyers could see paper losses on their purchase of $100,000 or more. For many, that could be enough to put them upside-down on their purchase.’”

“Values are falling broadly in Manhattan for the first time in the almost four-year U.S. housing recession, with declines now seen in co-operatives and condominiums of every size and price. James Rosenthal and his Upper West Side neighbo put their adjacent apartments up for sale in February 2008 for $6 million, hoping to lure a buyer that wanted to maximize the 3,800-square feet of combined space.”

“‘As the seller you don’t control the market,’ said Rosenthal, who is a senior VP at New York real estate brokerage Brown Harris Stevens. ‘The buyers control the market.’”

“The median price for a Manhattan apartment fell 19 percent over the last year to $795,000, its lowest level since the second quarter of 2007, according to a report. Luxury homes suffered the most. When Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 15, what was once a subprime housing problem exploded into a global financial crisis. Suddenly, multi-million-dollar Wall Street workers were out of jobs, out of savings or in fear for their livelihoods.”

“‘That’s really when New York got hit,’ said Diane M. Ramirez, president of Halstead Property. ‘We fell off the cliff like everybody else.’”

“Florida’s real estate market continued on a warming trend in May, according to statistics released by the Florida Association of Realtors. ‘Condo sales are not dropping as drastically as they previously did,’ explained ECAR past president Cliff Chaplin, the current VP of FAR’s District 9.”

“Chaplin and other real estate professionals advise that it’s important for buyers, sellers and renters to ‘rely on a Realtor’ for all of their market needs. Realtors are familiar with the local market as well as the many special programs and incentives currently available, and are upheld to a strict code of ethics implemented by the NAR.”

“The paved drive turns off Colbert Road–its surface unblemished by any cracks, its curbs as pale and pristine as the day a hot Florida sun dried the cement. Elaborate landscaping–albeit somewhat overgrown–frames the entrance to a short bridge embellished with decorative siderails designed to resemble hand-forged wrought-iron latticework. Crossing over the drainage culvert leads to…nothing.”

“In a surreal tableau of arrested development, the neighborhood has gently winding paved lanes, road signs, water meters, power boxes, designated parking areas–but no houses, people, or cars. The driveways lead nowhere. The “children at play” notices seemingly refer to someone’s imaginary friends. Abandoned developments-in-progress pepper the landscape in Flagler County, Florida, where the nationwide housing boom more resembled an euphoric frenzy before its even more dramatic fall.”

“From 2003 to mid-2006, the pace of new construction could barely keep up with demand. ‘It was like the gold rush,’ says Bradley Duhamel, a now-unemployed construction worker. ‘Realtors, mortgage brokers, contractors, architects, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, people who bought and flipped properties–everyone was making money. For awhile, it was like you couldn’t NOT make money here. Then everything just stopped.’”

“Ah, South Florida: Where the women are strong, the men are pretty, and all the foreclosures are ‘friendly.’ The planned 321 North comes to us courtesy of a Chinese Investment Group: 35 acres, reconstruction of the 650,000-square-foot mall; 613,000 square feet of office space; 590 new residential units. The company mission? ‘To identify and reposition underperforming or distressed properties in advantageous locations.’”

“Distressed: You betcha. Advantageous: Well, one out of two ain’t bad.”

“Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert said Tuesday he is considering a second round of state stimulus to the housing market, similar to the $6,000 Home Run Grant incentive to homebuyers that helped generate $376.7 million in home sales in the past three months. ‘Housing led us into the recession and housing will lead us out,’” Herbert, a past president of the Utah Association of Realtors, said in a statement.”

“Twenty-one-year-old Brandon Taggart was renting an apartment in Layton but wasn’t seriously considering buying a home until he realized that the state grant could make it affordable. Earlier this month, he closed on a townhome in the Daybreak development. ‘The grant was pretty much what made me decide to even purchase a home,’ Taggart said. ‘With the grants available, the home was in a price range [I could afford].’”

“U.S. Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan stood Thursday in front of two foreclosed houses here to reiterate plans to offer more help to distressed homeowners. The loan-to-home-value ratio had been set at 105 percent. It’s now 125 percent, which Donovan said will increase the number of people eligible in California by 60 percent.”

“The change should allow more valley residents to qualify for the program, though it’s likely people who bought at the peak of the housing market still won’t be helped. One house was sold April 12, 2006, for $340,000. It’s being sold to a first-time home buyer and was listed at $83,500. There’s another foreclosed house next door with weeds all over the property. The housing secretary toured Merced at the request of Rep. Dennis Cardoza, D-Merced. ‘This is a cancer all over the country,’ Cardoza said. ‘We’re just more affected by it.’”

“A few residents in southwest and southeast Merced were surprised and confused Thursday to see their neighborhoods filled with a gaggle of suits looking at vacant homes. U.S. Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan was strolling around with Cardoza, who asked that he see the area’s devastation firsthand.”

“One man asked if something bad had happened. Well, that depends if he bought his home in 1996 or 2006.”

“Sales prices of Seattle-area homes edged up in April from the previous month, the first rise in the closely watched Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller home-price index in a year. But April’s 0.23 percent rise, while indicative of the Seattle market’s relative resilience, doesn’t signal that the long real-estate slide is at or near a bottom. Seasonal factors most likely accounted for the April rise in Seattle and the seven other cities, said Patrick Newport, an economist with IHS Global Insight.”

“Efforts to modify home loans have been slow and easily outpaced by the number of new delinquencies. In the first quarter, loan companies modified 185,156 mortgages, up 55 percent from the previous quarter. But the number of foreclosures in process increased to 844,389, up 22 percent. And nearly one in four borrowers who received a mortgage payment reduction fell behind again within six months, the report found.”

“‘So far (the modification program) isn’t showing large numbers, which tells me that it’s not working and that’s a problem,’ said economist Newport.”

“A state program that started Wednesday promises to advance up to $8,000 to first-time home buyers. But the program has plenty of roadblocks ahead. The cash isn’t there to make loans to home buyers, procedures to implement the program are not in place and purchasers may have to race to meet a federal tax deadline of Dec. 1. ‘I don’t know of a single jurisdiction in the state that is ready to go at this point, even if they had the money,’ said Wellington Meffert, general counsel for the Florida Housing Finance Corp., which is administering the program.”

“The city of Boca Raton’s allocation is just under $70,000. In the new home buyer program, after administrative costs are subtracted, that ‘is going to translate to [helping] about eight or nine home buyers,’ said Teresa McClurg, Boca’s community improvement administrator.”

““Bank Failure Friday” struck again last week, shuttering a financial institution with strong ties to Fayette County for the second week in a row.

The Georgia Department of Banking and Finance closed Newnan’s Neighborhood Community Bank June 26. The failure came exactly one week after Fayetteville’s Southern Community Bank was closed by state authorities. ‘Over the past 18 months we’ve seen quite a few bank closures in places like California, Florida, Georgia, Nevada and Arizona because those were the areas that experienced the most run-up in real estate prices during the housing boom,’ said FDIC spokesman David Barr.”

“A prominent Sherwood developer and his business partner, Precision Castparts’ former top executive, are facing foreclosure of part of their mixed-use project near Oregon 99W. Developer J. Patrick Lucas and William C. McCormick guaranteed the loan, according to court documents.”

“‘It sounds worse than it is,’ Lucas said this week.”

“As foreclosures batter the dense neighborhoods of urban New England, a regional emblem is under siege. Three-decker houses, which proliferated in cities like Boston, Providence and Worcester a century ago and remain fixtures of the landscape, are being foreclosed on at disproportionate rates, left to decay and even razed. In the boom years, three-deckers presented a different kind of opportunity. Out-of-town investors bought them, sometimes by the block, and rented them out without keeping them up.”

“‘For many people, they’re a form of business,’ said Timothy M. Warren Jr., CEO of the Warren Group in Boston. ‘There are absentee landlords, they take the risk, and if it doesn’t work, they walk.’”

“The latest round of census estimates pegs Bethel as the third-fastest growing municipality in Pennsylvania between July 1, 2000, and July 1, 2008. In that time, the township’s population grew by a whopping 75.3 percent from 6,421 to 11,255, according to census estimates. ‘I would say the big years were ’03, ’04 and ’05,’ said Thornbury Township Manager Jeffrey Seagraves. ‘That’s when three pretty large developments were built.’”

“‘Everything has leveled off recently,’ said Bethel Director of Operations L. Michael George. ‘but if you wanted to sell a house two or three years ago, you barely had to put up the sign before you found a buyer.’”

“California was the epicentre of the U.S. subprime mortgage industry, and the resultant collapse of the housing market, where prices are down more than 40 per cent from their peak, has slashed the revenue it collects from property taxes. The state’s credit rating is now the lowest in the country, and could fall to junk status soon, while unemployment has risen to 11.5 per cent.”

“Five years ago, when he took the stage at the Republican National Convention in New York, Arnold Schwarzenegger took a moment to chastise the pessimists who dared question America’s financial hegemony. ‘Don’t be economic girlie men’ the California Governor scolded, invoking his strongman past to peals of laughter.”

“But no one is laughing now, least of all Mr. Schwarzenegger.”

“Perplexed by the current San Diego County housing market? You’ve got company. Buyers, sellers, real estate agents, economists and bankers are all trying to get their heads around the question of where this market is going. ‘There’s a perception that ‘Oh, my God, we missed the boat’ — they have the perception sometimes, the misperception, if they wait another six months, it’ll go up another $50,000,’ said Yamila Ayad, owner of Mission Home Loans in San Marcos. ‘Myth, myth, myth.’”

“The shrunken number of homes on the market is temporary, said Seth Chalnick, a real estate broker in Cardiff-by-the-Sea. And that motivates buyers. ‘It creates a sense of scarcity,’ Chalnick said. ‘That does tap into our psychological sense of it must be valuable because it’s scarce.’”

“Growing trouble in the category of loans known as Alt-A in San Diego County has analysts concerned. A step above subprime, Alt-A consists of high-risk loans for good-credit borrowers who purchased more expensive homes, and the rate of such borrowers in default has soared over the past year. These potential future foreclosures might more dramatically affect higher-end neighborhoods where a lack of financing has hampered home sales.”

“Chalnick, the broker, said the $700,000-plus market has been especially hard-hit. He said he’s reticent to declare an end to the weakness in the market, at least on an aggregate, countywide level. ‘The idea of the real estate market being at the bottom when you lump the low end with the coastal high-end stuff — the only word that comes to mind is preposterous,’ Chalnick said. ‘People are saying, ‘It’s not as bad anymore; we’ve turned the corner!’ It hasn’t even started.’”




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81 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-03 11:20:28

It’s been an eventful week for this blogger. If you are in the foreclosure biz, these are boom times. My thanks to those who support this blog. We should have our guest blogger back this weekend, and I’ll have a holiday observations/mid-year predictions thread up. So please check back.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-03 15:05:29

You have a great site Ben. Keep up the good work. It’s been a real pleasure finding this blog.

Comment by Captain john
2009-07-03 16:54:17

Yes thanks Ben. Entertaining and Educational! I am about to start my 5th year reading the HBB, what a long strange trip it’s been.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-03 16:59:54

‘my 5th year reading the HBB, what a long strange trip it’s been’

Yes Capn, it has been.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-03 17:04:42

Yes Ben, I have only been here a little while, but it is the best blog I have been on, and I am grateful to be here. Glad things are going well for you.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-03 11:51:17

Oh, brother, does this passage provide a target-rich environment for satire:

“Chaplin and other real estate professionals advise that it’s important for buyers, sellers and renters to ‘rely on a Realtor’ for all of their market needs. Realtors are familiar with the local market as well as the many special programs and incentives currently available, and are upheld to a strict code of ethics implemented by the NAR.”

Then there’s this gem:

“Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert said Tuesday he is considering a second round of state stimulus to the housing market, similar to the $6,000 Home Run Grant incentive to homebuyers that helped generate $376.7 million in home sales in the past three months. ‘Housing led us into the recession and housing will lead us out,’” Herbert, a past president of the Utah Association of Realtors, said in a statement.”

Ummm, Mr. Lt. Gov., housing is a sector that’s reactive to what is happening elsewhere in the economy. Y’know, things like household formation, job creation, and income growth. And, from what I’ve heard, those things aren’t exactly cookin’ along right now. Nor will they be — for quite some time.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-03 13:47:08

Yeah, and here’s one for you reporters out there; what are the ethical implications of lobbying for incentives to convince 21 YO’s to buy houses, especially when these clowns are getting a big percentage right off the top? This isn’t rocket science; it isn’t even playdough science.

Comment by denquiry
2009-07-04 08:07:56

don’t let ethics get in the way of profits. That’s the american way don’t you now?

 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-07-03 14:12:38

“”‘Housing led us into the recession and housing will lead us out,’” Herbert, a past president of the Utah Association of Realtors, said in a statement.””

This statement is absurdly delusional. How, in the face of staggering job losses, can there be sustained demand for overpriced houses? While they can steal future demand in the short term through these wacky programs, it does nothing but guarantee even more pain in the long run. This economy has painted itself in the corner, and the jig is up.

Comment by Big V
2009-07-03 14:44:50

More than delusional. Try absurd. That’s no more logical than saying “Jumping off of tall buildings is what broke my arm, and that’s what’s going to heal it now”. There has got to be a hole somewhere deep inside this man’s brain. I refuse to believe that nature could produce such stupidity without help!

Comment by ahansen
2009-07-03 21:23:04

Snort, V.
You always just crack me up.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-03 15:09:10

..except when my posts get ate. :lol:

Comment by Wickedheart
2009-07-03 16:21:41

I heard only the tasty posts get eaten. :)

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-03 17:10:58

Mine did and is wasn’t tasty!

 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-03 15:10:22

Oh there’s sustained demand alright. Demand for more delusional profits. :lol:

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-04 02:12:14

“Chaplin and other real estate professionals advise that it’s important for buyers, sellers and renters to ‘rely on a Realtor’ for all of their market needs. Realtors are familiar with the local market as well as the many special programs and incentives currently available, and are upheld to a strict code of ethics implemented by the NAR.”

Yeah, I have two words for Chaplin that begin with the letters F and Y. Why should anybody ever again listen to this bunch of lying thieves!?

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-03 11:54:49

“Values are falling broadly in Manhattan for the first time in the almost four-year U.S. housing recession, with declines now seen in co-operatives and condominiums of every size and price.”

Oh, what a joy to see. I had to rub that in a co-worker’s nose yesterday. How sweet that felt. He is the one whose wife I wanted to punch right in the mush back in November 2006. She was telling us, at dinner, how stupid we were to rent. She’s a loudmouth ________ .

Do you notice how many of these baboons that were so wrong will never acknowledge that they were wrong? It really shows the complete lack of character that the brainwashed masses possess. And because they never admit their mistakes they are certain to repeat them. I relish seeing all of the “optimists” that are getting destroyed. RELISH! God can forgive them. That’s his department. My department is cheering their demise.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-07-03 12:29:02

Evan Connell said that he became convinced that man does not learn by experience…….that an individual will react to a general series of circumstances in a predictable way, time after time.

You would think that by now a lot of people would be reevaluating their views of how the economy works.

Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 15:34:18

Hey, X-GS, thanks for your post yesterday on the deterioration of the aircraft maintenance field. It was pretty chilling. The bright side is, since our politicians and financial oligarchs just love air travel, I will continue to encourage them in that pursuit. And the more of it, the better.

BTW, something really stinks about these recent Airbus accidents. I read the article in Vanity Fair about the landing in the Hudson, and it would seem that the Airbus is a decent aircraft and was the unsung hero of the landing. However, Boeing is not happy. Wonder if they slipped some maintenance workers a few pesos here and there.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-07-03 13:22:14

“Do you notice how many of these baboons that were so wrong will never acknowledge that they were wrong? ”

Yes Sir I do. There’s a form of backpedalling going on right now…. not an concession but a mealy mouthed, kinda this, maybe that type of talk but let me tell you all……It’s just another insidious form of denial that needs to be smashed to smithereenies.

The best way to counter this type of denial? If your memory serves you well, remind them of their former statements from yesteryear when their arrogance was brash and the balls were brass.

This is exactly the type of exchange I had this week with a former RE believer. He’s all wishy washy now and I reminded him of his haughty, insolent statements regarding RE from 2005…… response?

“yeah, I guess you’re right”.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-07-03 14:21:23

“Do you notice how many of these baboons that were so wrong will never acknowledge that they were wrong? It really shows the complete lack of character that the brainwashed masses possess.”

What’s worse, some are even pretending that they’ve been calling the crash all along. Unless presented with a taped recording of past conversations, they deny they ever existed. Liars suck. I do my best to stay far, far away from those types.

Comment by Big V
2009-07-03 14:50:12

I hate that! OMG, how I freaking hate that. How do you like the ppl who start to lecture YOU about it, using the exact same reasoning that you tried to use with them like 4 freaking years ago? I hate that, I hate that, I HATE THAT!!!

Comment by InMontana
2009-07-03 15:23:53

that happens with a lot of things. I wonder if they seriously forgot that YOU told them what they’re now saying, or do they hope YOU forgot what they were saying back then? or what?

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Comment by CA renter
2009-07-03 15:56:01

LOL! How true. Everyone is now telling us about how they “knew it couldn’t last” all along.

My MIL **still** hasn’t apologized for all the grief she gave me about “keeping her son from being a homeowner” during the bubble. Serious screaming matches with that woman. Oh well…

 
Comment by Wickedheart
2009-07-03 16:26:47

“My MIL **still** hasn’t apologized for all the grief she gave me about “keeping her son from being a homeowner” during the bubble. Serious screaming matches with that woman. Oh well…”

My MIL was the best. Unfortunately she died waay too young at 50. Why would anyone do that to someone over a house?

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-07-03 18:26:08

Sorry for your experience Wickedheart,

I wonder how she would have felt about me.

“honey, I think we need to sell the house you’ve spent the last few years pouring sweat equity into to make things nice for us…..and rent”

Luckily he was onboard the whole time cuz it was kind of awkward w/the fam till Newsweek and NBC confirmed I wasn’t a loon. Oh yea and that Wall St thingy in Oct bloggers had been predicting gained me some credence too.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-07-04 00:58:03

My MIL was the best. Unfortunately she died waay too young at 50. Why would anyone do that to someone over a house?

Sorry to hear about your MIL, Wickedheart. It’s not every day you find a good MIL, that’s for sure.

I think so many people really drank the Kool-Aid, and she believed with all her heart that prices only went up. Don’t bother asking her if she (or any of her neighbors) could have bought her own house at peak prices.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-07-03 12:24:22

“Twenty-one-year-old Brandon Taggart was renting an apartment in Layton but wasn’t seriously considering buying a home until he realized that the state grant could make it affordable. Earlier this month, he closed on a townhome in the Daybreak development. ‘The grant was pretty much what made me decide to even purchase a home,’ Taggart said. ‘With the grants available, the home was in a price range [I could afford].’”

Well, yes, 21 year-olds are famously savvy about 30 year mortgage commitments. “Uh dude, lost my job at the carwash; here’s your keys. I’m goin’ back to my old room at my parent’s place.”

What could possibly go wrong?

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-07-03 12:35:13

I really don’t get where this idea of the 21 year old homeowner came from. Buying a house when I was 21 was an idea that wasn’t in the Top 100 of my priority list.

(As I lapse into “I-can-remember-when-that-wasn’t-there” Guy)

Comment by Eudemon
2009-07-03 21:38:21

Five dollars says the purchase was made with (by) the input of helicopter parents.

Because mummy and dada insist on making decisions for their adult children.

 
 
Comment by arizonadude
2009-07-03 12:47:43

There not making anymore land you know.realtors are savy investors as we found out.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-03 13:06:17

He doesn’t want to ‘throw his money away’ on rent so he throws our (taxpayer) money away when he gets foreclosed and his lender gets a bailout. He is just being an obediant Obamamerican.

Comment by drumminj
2009-07-03 21:35:42

He is just being an obediant Obamamerican.

This sentence totally discredited anything else you might have had to say.

Seriously, can we not leave crap like this for the political blogs out there, not the housing blogs?

Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-07-04 06:32:30

One comment sends the defenders into a froth! Seems early in the term for you to be calling out the “ban him” tactics.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-07-04 08:43:59

Joe, you know nothing about my politics. If you’d been reading here for a while it’d be clear I’m anything but an Obama fan.

My point is that snide comments like that take away from any real discussion. I don’t see why people feel the need, and I hate having to wade through threads along these lines. Jeez…why don’t we have yankees vs redsocks arguments as well. They’d be just as well-founded.

 
 
 
Comment by SLC
2009-07-07 08:37:16

Probably not.

This is just statistical, so maybe Brandon Taggart is a big fat socialist liberal…but chances are he is part of the majority here. If he’s a Laytonite, then a Daybreaker, and a 21-year-old homeowner…he fits the Utah Mormon Guy profile perfectly. And 99% of the Utah Mormon Guys I know are anti-Obama (in these parts, people tend to look for the (R) after a name, punch their ballot, and be on their way).

Utah’s fanatical participation in the housing boom and the Realturd fad was right in line with our freakish penchant for MLM, and for excess on nearly every level.

Conservatives around here bi*ch about “socialism” and tax misallocation…until it benefits them. I’ve got one co-worker who can’t miss an opportunity to freak the whole office out about wheelbarrows of money at the grocery store…griping endlessly about taxpayer misallocation. He prides himself on his second job to save for a downpayment (probably for an FHA loan…given his job probably only pays about $8 an hour, I don’t see him getting much farther than a 3.5%-sized DP)…rather than take either the Federal or State grants available to him. Which is good, given what a hypocrite it would make him if he actually took the 8k (I’ve told him that yes, it’s lame, but he’s paid into it nonetheless so he might as well get “his”). He still refuses.

He is 30 with 4 kids (I’m single, 27, and in a b*tch of a tax bracket). I told him “wow, so you don’t take the child tax credit then, I would assume.” I was wrong. He absolutely has no problem taking the tax credit for each of his children, Every. Single. Year.

My single, overtaxed ass does not feel bad about the 8k credit I may take, when sitting next to him and his parade of offspring. Most of my peers in this highly-conservative community are the exact same.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-03 14:52:22

They have to target the 21-year-olds because those are the only ppl left who are naive enough to still think it’s a good idea to buy overpriced RE. Same reason they get 18-year-olds to joing the Army.

Comment by WHYoung
2009-07-03 17:12:12

Not that you don’t have a point about the 21 year old and the house -scary.

BUT, I have a buddies that are ex-military (including one who taught at Westpoint) and significant numbers of the young they trained were unable to afford college and bright enough to want something more than flipping burgers.

They saw joining the military as a way out of where ever they were and the source of a better possible future. It’s a road that didn’t leave them saddled with huge school loans.

While they take on an element of risk and obligations that concern most of us, it is not necessarily a naive or inappropriate choice and is sometimes a genuine opportunity.

(The way our military is used and deployed is a another discussion.)

Comment by DennisN
2009-07-03 18:03:34

I’ve seen several ways for a poor penniless guy with brains to make it. One is to get into one of the service academies and major in EE. Do your minimal duty and then get a job as a patent examiner with the PTO - they won’t turn down a vet with a tech degree. The pay isn’t bad AND they will pay tuition for you to go to a DC area law school. When you get out of law school, you take a state bar and voila you are a patent attorney - the PTO waives the patent bar exam for former examiners. Since the patent bar exam has about a 35% pass rate, you are now at age 30 on a gravy train with no debt of any kind.

Things may have changed in the last few years. YMMV.

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Comment by pismoclam
2009-07-03 19:07:41

He had to buy a house and move out! His parents wouldn’t let him have sleepovers.

Comment by SLC
2009-07-07 08:45:34

You’re kidding, but you’re probably right. 21 is the age they get off their LDS missions. First thing you’re supposed to do is act like you’re 35, pile on a wife, kids, and a mortgage.

That kind of financial pressure on guys too young to have any career footing is the exact reason we have so many Realtors and agents around here. Little work and big checks, only 3 weeks of training to score a license, and (somehow) a higher social status than a used car salesman. It’s creepy, like we’re like a bunch of socio-economic JonBenet Ramseys. Premature adulthood as a novelty just gives me the heebie jeebies.

This place is a breeding ground for agents. Just another reason the bust is going to bury this state. Too much of our workforce is in the RE industry.

 
 
 
Comment by bink
2009-07-03 12:51:50

Jon Gollinger, CEOof Accelerated Marketing, said the auction once again proved who was king. ‘This is a watershed event for the Philadelphia condo market, pure and simple,’ he said. “All people have to do is analyze this building in relation to what the consumers paid, and then really extrapolate from that to determine what their properties are worth in the eyes of the consumer. The consumer rules.’”

That’s some epic wharrgarbl right there. Only makes sense to victims of severe head trauma and people in marketing.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-03 13:26:10

Oh, geez. People in marketing. Over the years, I’ve had the “opportunity” to compete against them in the website design/development arena.

There have been times when I’ve lost work to them because I’m not a full-service advertising and/or marketing agency. Sorry, but I’m not qualified for that field. It has something to do with my inability to take buzzwords like “branding” seriously. Or use them in a sentence without laughing. But if you want a website that validates to World Wide Web Consortium standards, then we’ve got something to talk about.

If you’re familiar with Douglas Coupland’s book, Microserfs, he talks about the division between the marketing people and the techie geeks who get things done in a software company. Needless to say, the techies look down on the marketeers.

Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 14:43:56

“I’m not a full-service advertising and/or marketing agency.”

And that is in your favor. Advertising and public relations enabled me to have a pretty decent childhood, as both of my parents were in that field, but this was back in the day when it was sort of fun and creative and you had a lot of artistic folks in the business. I gave it a brief whirl myself after college and found that it was beginning to change markedly. Later on, in the production biz, I came to realize that the field was dominated by smarmy folks who didn’t have a clue and mostly vomited buzzwords and inanities. These days, it’s a very strange field and bears no resemblance to what my parents were used to.

 
Comment by knockwurst
2009-07-03 17:33:27

I hate marketing (I’m a former copywriter), but “if you want a website that validates to World Wide Web Consortium standards” is what you sound like when you start to market yourself.

“Validates” is a buzzword. Marketing is communication, and some folks are good at it, some are not. The bad ones usually use jargon and buzzwords.

Comment by ahansen
2009-07-03 21:31:17

Tee hee.

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Comment by Eudemon
2009-07-03 21:47:44

No industry has more jargon and buzzwords than the computer industry.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-07-03 21:38:04

That’s some epic wharrgarbl right there

I love watching internet memes move from community to community. I imagine it’s a fun topic to research these days in college.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 14:35:37

‘People are saying, ‘It’s not as bad anymore; we’ve turned the corner!’ It hasn’t even started.’”

Testify, brothah!

Comment by Big V
2009-07-03 14:55:53

We’ve turned the corner and are now about to run head-on into that sleeping guy driving that RV thingie.

… oops.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-03 15:46:37

Palmy posted on old post, didn’t think you got it. Thank you for the info re “concrete shack/condo” rentals. i appreciate it.

ATE

Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 15:52:52

10-4, ATE!

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-04 02:29:51

‘People are saying, ‘It’s not as bad anymore; we’ve turned the corner!’ It hasn’t even started.’”

Exactly. In CA, it’s not just the upcoming Alt-A resets and defaults that will put more downward pressure on prices.

Other factors that will further contract the state economy and reduce money available to purchase housing:

- Higher taxes on those that are still working
- Unemployment and underemployment approaching depression levels
- Sharp reductions in state and local tax receipts to be followed soon by reductions in state and local government spending

Given the continuing excess supply of housing, there are many significant factors that should continue the downward pressure on housing prices for some time. Round one of the big price declines is done. Round two should be very interesting.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 15:04:17

“It was like the gold rush,” says Bradley Duhamel, a now-unemployed construction worker. “Realtors, mortgage brokers, contractors, architects, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, people who bought and flipped properties–everyone was making money. For awhile, it was like you couldn’t NOT make money here. Then everything just stopped.”

Locals have strong opinions about what sparked the downfall, but the reality of complex and compounding factors makes it impossible to pinpoint a single cause.”

No, it’s not complex. Not complex at all. But if you can make it seem complex, that ensures you can’t “pinpoint” a cause and if you can’t do that, you can’t solve the problem. You’d think we’d never had a boom/bust cycle in all of Florida’s history.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 15:19:38

If we hadn’t bailed out AIG, these wastes of flesh would be sucking swamp water.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/5723930/Goldman-Sachs-bankers-in-line-for-record-bonuses.html

Comment by CA renter
2009-07-04 01:04:25

Truly disgusting, palmy.

But gosh!! Where would we be if we didn’t compensate the “most productive” members of our society so well?

I give up!

Comment by neuromance
2009-07-04 19:26:26

I give up!

That’s what they want you to do.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-07-03 15:27:20

“drainage culvert”

Waterfront property!

Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 15:35:47

You got that right! Retention ponds = lakes in Fla.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-03 15:56:58

Remember Palmy all property for sale in Florida is “on the water”, even if the water is coming out of the roof or a sewer line leaking back.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-07-03 15:33:13

So my wife and I took the littleman to International Plaza in Tampa today, which has all the high end shops. It was totally dead, except for the Apple store.

Apparently the Four Horseman will be riding with iPods.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-03 16:32:32

WOW Muggy, it was dead? Last time I was there, circa 2006, it was packed all the time. I mean, I hate stuff, and only went there three times for essentials, and it was PACKED.

Comment by palmetto
2009-07-03 16:40:16

You know it is getting bad when International Plaza is dead. Last summer I was there on a couple of weekdays and it was pretty busy.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-07-03 18:46:16

Hey Muggy,

Thanks for your responses a few days back. I do a quick spin through most days and often can’t check back for a bit but I do always appreciate going back and reading new info/commentary!

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-07-03 15:56:29

The lowest winning bid was $335,000 - for a one-bedroom, one-bath unit - and the highest, for a two-bedroom, two-bath unit, was $796,000,

Does not seem like any good deal at all to me, for those Murano units in Philadelphia. A former girlfriend of mine and her sister each bought a 2,000 square foot loft in a Marina Del Rey high rise for $850,000 each. Complete with concierges, and so forth, and the all year climate with the best bicycle path in the U.S. right outside the building and within steps to the marina, make it a far better deal.

Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-07-04 06:46:26

The problem with the whole South Bay, is that it is all riot distance from Compton and central L.A.

This proximity will come to haunt the wealthy beach cities.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-07-03 16:05:11

“Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert said Tuesday he is considering a second round of state stimulus to the housing market, similar to the $6,000 Home Run Grant incentive to homebuyers that helped generate $376.7 million in home sales in the past three months. ‘Housing led us into the recession and housing will lead us out,’” Herbert, a past president of the Utah Association of Realtors, said in a statement.”
————————

He’s right about housing leading us into the recession, but fails to grasp how and why.

What caused the recession is **TOO MUCH DEBT** that was used to push housing prices well above what people could actually afford.

Wipe out that debt via foreclosures. This eliminates the debt part.

The lower prices that result will allow strong buyers — with 20% down payments and solid, verifiable income — to move in and clean up the mess.

The entire problem could have been avoided simply by requiring high down payments (20-30%), even if they had toxic loans, because people are less likely to walk if they actually have something to lose (which low/zero-down, neg-am buyers do not). Also, it would have created a buffer for the lenders so they wouldn’t have to foreclose unless prices dropped more than 20%.

Additionally, with high down payment, prices would never get to the levels they did because so few people have a few extra hundred thousand lying around under their mattresses.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-07-03 18:30:15

You are too rational for these times, CA Renter! You’ll lose if you run for any office, from Congress to President!

Comment by CA renter
2009-07-04 00:06:18

Thanks, Bill. :)

Happy 4th of July to you and all the other HBB’ers out there!

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-07-03 17:52:03

Here is a question for the real estate experts here

I’m interested in eventually purchasing a house that I rented a while back. I know the owner is going to end up in foreclosure over the next year (He basically told me this). When this happens I want to purchase it from the bank. I know the owner is too unrealistic to take less than he paid for it. It’s been on the market for a year now at fantasy pricing. I’d offer 40% what he’s asking which is 14xrent. I believe he has the loan at the same bank I sent the rent checks to.

Do banks publish a list of their foreclosed properties? I suspect not.
I imagine the courts publish a list of foreclosures, is this the best way to find out when the event happens? What’s a good source of info on buying foreclosures?

Thanks

Comment by Big V
2009-07-03 18:32:41

Maybe you should just ask the guy about it from time to time. Check up on him and stuff.

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2009-07-03 20:49:50

And for those not familiar with “Daybreak” in UT (SLC) where this 21 yr old bought. It is on top of the old Bingham mining tails. It is basically sitting on top of a toxic waste dump. The place we avoided when I was growing up in the SLC area.

 
Comment by kraled
2009-07-03 21:01:23

dennis n,

i did what you described, college on nrotc scholarship, navy 4 years, law school on the gi bill. in the larger sense it was very cool

but the danger now is that we are developing a truly professional military, that has worked out badly in many a country’s hisrory

Comment by ahansen
2009-07-03 21:39:30

By all means, waive the bar exam for vets. Who needs literacy anyway?

Comment by drumminj
2009-07-03 22:26:38

Not that I disagree with your sentiment, but I would think that one who’s not literate wouldn’t last very long as a patent lawyer (descibed above), or as a lawyer in general?

Then again my ex’s father (a lawyer) always complained about the lack of english/writing skills possessed by the new associates.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-07-04 03:42:42

I think you misunderstood my earlier post. If you work as an examiner for the patent office for a number of years, they waive the requirement to sit for the patent bar exam. This makes sense since the exam is basically a test in the administrative paperwork of the patent office and an examiner has been performing such paperwork as the main portion of his work.

Persons who have passed the patent bar exam - or otherwise get a registration number - are called patent agents. A patent agent who additionally passes one or more state bar exams becomes a patenet attorney.

 
 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-07-04 00:40:31

Ha! Just noticed my accupuncturist’s husband was quoted in the SD article. :)

She and I had many fun discussions about the housing and stock markets.

 
Comment by kraled
2009-07-04 01:14:17

please excuse my grammar or spelling drumminj i am drunk, but , in the morning , i will be sober

Comment by drumminj
2009-07-04 08:48:31

Not sure why you’re apologizing to me? I don’t think I commented on anyone’s grammar or spelling?

Did I miss something?

 
 
2009-07-04 04:53:04

Selling properties in Philadelphia, the Murano auction certainly did generate a buzz in the city. Not for nothing, it does show the demand for housing, albeit at discounted pricing, and adds confidence to the market. I think that this one event could signal that Philadelphia is close to bottoming (or has bottomed) moving forward. Time will tell. Love the blog here as the facts are what they are and there is a tremendous amount of pain out there. Is also good to see mortgage rates drift back down again which is beneficial to any purchasor in this market as well.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-04 07:15:51

HAHAHA You gotta be kidding $350K for a kondo?

A fool and their money will soon be departed, that’s all this auction shows me.

A REAL price is maybe $150K when you add in ever escalating Kondo fees taxes insurance…

Chris and Stephanie an INVESTMENT means Positive cash flow a Speculation is negative cash flow

People like you have no clue how to use a calculator and figure this out, at $350K there is nobody who will rent at a price that will cover their expenses.

 
 
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