The Resounding ‘Pop!’ Echoes Across The Nation
The Chicago Tribune reports from Illinois. “An average of only 7.3 Chicago-area homeowners received government-certified foreclosure counseling for every 100 area foreclosure filings in 2008, according to a report Tuesday by Housing Action Illinois and the Woodstock Institute. Illinois has 94 HUD-certified agencies that offer counseling. The shortfall, the report concludes, is the result of a lack of homeowner awareness as well as agencies too strapped to do more. ‘As one of our counselors said, ‘This isn’t the job I signed up for,’ said Dru Bergman, executive director of the DuPage Homeownership Center. ‘We were working mostly with happy endings. In this situation, a lot of times this is not a happy ending, and you’re preparing them for a major life-altering event, the loss of their home.’”
“In one case, Sherry Smith…at Neighborhood Housing Services of Chicago, spent months working with a homeowner to craft a proposal for the lender. When the final settlement offer was made, an offer Smith said was manageable, the woman refused it, saying she wanted even better terms. The bank said no, and the client came back to Smith asking what should she do. ‘It was hard for me to say this, but it was, ‘Go get some boxes.’”
“Until recently, many banks have put off launching foreclosure action on many troubled properties, in part because they had signed up for the home-stability plan from President Barack Obama’s administration. But with many government and self-imposed foreclosure moratoriums expiring, the biggest lenders indicate they are likely to move more aggressively to clear a backlog of troubled mortgages.”
“Recent reports hint at the next wave of foreclosures. In the first quarter, 1.8 million homeowners nationwide fell behind on their loans by 60 to 90 days, a 15 percent increase from the prior quarter, according to Economy.com. The research firm said that loan defaults rose sharply as well, to 844,000 in the first three months of this year.”
“So far, more than 240,000 distressed borrowers have been approved on a trial basis under the Home Affordable Modification Program, in which their loans are being reworked so monthly payments are targeted at 31 percent of their gross income, said Seth Wheeler, a senior adviser to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner.”
“‘We’re very unlikely to implement another moratorium,’ Wheeler said but noted that the Treasury will monitor how many foreclosed homes are dumped into the market, suggesting officials could take other steps to prevent a flood of lender-owned properties.”
The Belleview News Democrat in Illinois. “More than four years have passed since developer Caseyville Sport Choice, of Bakersfield, Calif., announced plans to build 625 luxury homes — with some costing upwards of $1 million — and a golf course on nearly 500 acres of land off Illinois 159. Since then, not a single house has arisen. Nor can anyone say when construction will begin.
“Mayor George Chance blamed the stalled progress on the sorry state of the national economy in general, and the collapse of the housing market in particular. But he expressed optimism about the project’s future.”
“‘I don’t see how anybody could walk away from something as spectacular as that could be,’ he said. ‘And to put all the money and work and effort that they’ve put into it and say it’s dead, I’m not going to believe that.’”
The Southside Pride in Minnesota. “On a bright sunny Saturday, June 13, about 100 people gathered at Lake and Clinton to march to Wells Fargo and US Bank to protest the foreclosures of people in South Minneapolis. Organized by the Minnesota Coalition for a People’s Bailout, the group marched first to the Wells Fargo branch at Lake and Nicollet. They chanted: ‘WELLS FARGO GOT BAILED OUT. WE GOT SOLD OUT.’ ‘STOP FORECLOSURES NOW!’”
“Ann Patterson, who has good credit and has never missed a mortgage payment is trying to renegotiate an adjustable rate mortgage with Wells Fargo that has spun her monthly payments out of control. They refuse to negotiate with her. She said, ‘We’ve lived in the house for 12 years. We don’t want to be martyrs, but we’re not going to let these houses go without a fight.’”
The Winona Daily News in Minnesota. “The Winona City Council on Monday night rejected a plan for the city to buy, rehabilitate and sell foreclosed homes with a $250,000 low-interest loan from the Greater Minnesota Housing Fund, a private nonprofit group. The loan would have enabled the rehabilitation and sale of foreclosed homes that weren’t finding private buyers, and likely fulfilled the city’s broader goal of improving its many aging homes, said Winona’s Community Development department, which offered the proposal. But council members say it isn’t the city’s role to redevelop foreclosed homes — private developers should spearhead those efforts.”
“‘Let the market decide on how our homes are bought and sold, period,’ Councilwoman Deb Salyards said.”
The Times Herald in Iowa. “In September, America’s bubble burst, and the resounding ‘pop!’ echoes across the nation. When the recession struck, it hit the housing market first — and it hit hard. A record 1.8 million Americans were ousted from their homes in the first half of this year, according to RealtyTrac Inc. In May alone, officials reported 300,000 foreclosure filings. That means for-sale houses flood the market in a time of rising unemployment and shrinking incomes.”
“Dubuque real estate agent Rob Cook craved that challenge when he jumped into the industry six years ago, and with each passing day, he notices a shift. ‘I won’t say that it’s a difficult market now, but I will say it’s a different market,’ he said. ‘Just look at the numbers.’”
“Cook specializes in corporate relocation work, which means he helps business people moving in and out of town buy and sell their houses. ‘Right now, I have a couple who wants to move here, and they have even found some houses they absolutely fell in love with,’ he said. ‘The problem is that the housing markets are terrible where they live, and they can’t sell their houses there.’”
The Suburban Journal in Missouri. “As the pace of foreclosures has quickened over the last two years in St. Charles County, homes and families have been left in the wake. Schools also have been affected by the recent rash of foreclosures, and Fort Zumwalt has taken the biggest hit of the school districts serving St. Charles County.”
“Between January 2004 and March of this year, more than 1,300 properties within the Fort Zumwalt district boundaries were foreclosed upon. Fort Zumwalt Superintendent Bernard DuBray said he was unaware the district had the most foreclosures among local school districts. But he said the data is in line with the numbers he has seen from property value reassessments used to determine school funding, which dropped for the first time since DuBray took the helm at Fort Zumwalt 27 years ago.”
“‘We dropped about $125 million in assessed values,’ DuBray said.”
From ABC 12 in Michigan. “A brand-new state law that went into effect Sunday will now require lenders to give you time for counseling that could help save your home. State officials are trying to get word out to those worried about foreclosure. They want you to know that banks must notify you and give you time for counseling. It’s a move at least one Genesee County woman says would have saved her from a foreclosure nightmare.”
“‘We kept ourselves just above water at times, but we were hanging in there,’ said Janice Bailey.”
“Bailey remembers when it all began in 2007. Her husband’s construction work fell off. They were working hard to make the payments and repair mold found in the house. And then the banks just stopped working with her. Despite her trying to make payments, the bank moved ahead with foreclosure and then, one day, eviction.”
“‘And they just started moving things out into the street and people started swarming and starting to take things,’ Bailey said.”
The Business Journal in Ohio. “When Utah-based JD4 Investments LLC bought dozens of Ohio properties from Fannie Mae late last year, a company owner said the plan was to fix them up and rent or sell the homes to provide more affordable housing in a state slammed by foreclosures. But here in Cincinnati, six of the dozen properties owned by JD4 have been targeted by city inspectors because of their deteriorating condition.”
“‘It defies logic to think that letting a building go, become vacated and vandalized and ruining the neighborhood somehow makes good business sense,’ said Edward Cunningham, division manager of the city of Cincinnati’s property maintenance code enforcement division.”
The Columbus Dispatch in Ohio. “A thief used a pen and paper to steal nearly $1.5 million from a group of well-educated, upper-middle-class Columbus professionals. Somnath Ganguly remains free. But the Delaware County resident faces mounting legal troubles, including civil lawsuits and criminal investigations for the real-estate deals he orchestrated during the past four years.”
“The investors all are professionals: scientists, doctors and computer experts. They also are members of Columbus’ Bengali community who say they were taken by a fellow native of the Bengal region of India. About 300 Bengali families live in central Ohio. Some wanted to cash in on the red-hot housing boom four years ago. Others simply wanted to help a friend launch a career. One man was told that his investments would help build a nursing home for the Indian community.”
“All now say they were conned and betrayed. Ganguly scoffed at the allegations. ‘I am the victim,’ he said. ‘I have all the evidence. It’s the banks, the mortgage industry, the people who got way too greedy.’”
“Retirees Azeez and Badrun Quraishi invested about $127,000 to buy three East Side houses and ownership in a Westerville fast-food restaurant owned by Ganguly. They said he promised to fix up the properties and sell them. The profits, he told them, would provide seed money to develop a nursing home. But the money is gone and the houses have been foreclosed upon, according to court records.”
“Dr. Quraishi, 81, built a handsome nest egg from his years as a scientist at Ross Laboratories. He is credited with developing the nutritional-supplement drink Ensure. Now, he and his wife are broke. Mrs. Quraishi works as a grocery-store cashier. She took out a $25,000 advance on a credit card and borrowed money from her daughter to keep their own household running.”
“The Quraishis sued Ganguly and reached a settlement in which he promised to pay them $750 a month. His first payment was due Wednesday. It never came. ‘He took all our money,’ Mrs. Quraishi said. ‘My mind is upset. I’m getting sick.’”
The Herald Tribune. “New rules meant to create a firewall between real estate appraisers and mortgage lenders are instead scuttling home sales, some Realtors and mortgage brokers say. The point of the new code is clear, though it is having some unintended consequences, said Dennis Black, a Port Charlotte-based appraiser who is speaking about the new rules at a conference in Orlando later this month.”
“‘This code of conduct was put in place to disrupt and get rid of the cozy relationships that some mortgage originators had with appraisers,’ Black said. ‘The intent is that the people getting paid based on production should have nothing to do with the appraisers, who should be getting paid just for doing their job, regardless of whether their appraisal matches up to what a lender or real estate agent wants.’”
“Gary Schlips, an investor from Ohio who bought a new North Port home during the housing boom in 2006, said the new code scuttled his efforts to make a deal. Schlips recently agreed to sell the home for $220,000, but an appraiser from Fort Myers hired under the new guidelines said the home was worth $87,000 less.’
“‘The reason they under-appraised it is because they based it on two recent short sales and a bank-owned property that sold,’ Schlips said. ‘What rules they are using to appraise it on are ridiculous.’”
“His lender offered to take the appraised price, but then said Schlips would have to pay $158 every month for the next 30 years to make up the difference. ‘I’ve been trying to sell this house for three years and I’ve maintained the lawn, maintained the house, maintained the pool and then when I do get an offer not only will they not agree on it but they wanted me to pay the difference,’ said Schlips, who said he went through his life’s savings dealing with the house. ‘Everything I’ve had is gone.’”
From The Hill. “Republicans on the House Oversight panel are trying to re-energize debate over the role Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac played in causing the housing crisis continuing to ripple through the U.S. economy. Staff for ranking member Darrell Issa (Calif.) and other committee Republicans on Tuesday will release a 26-page report that blames the government’s drive to increase homeownership, particularly among minority groups and low-income households.”
“‘The housing bubble that burst in 2007 and led to a financial crisis can be traced back to the federal government intervention in the U.S. housing market intended to help provide home ownership opportunities for more Americans,’ declares the first sentence of the GOP Oversight and Government Reform report.”
“The report tries to center debate on government involvement, rather than Wall Street. ‘In recent months, it has been impossible to watch a television news program without seeing a Member of Congress or an Administration official put forward a new recovery proposal or engage in a public flogging of a financial company official whose poor decisions, and perhaps greed, resulted in huge losses and great suffering,’ the report states. ‘Ironically, some of these same Washington officials were, all too recently, advocates of the very mortgage lending policies that led to the economic turmoil.’”
“Democrats have defended Fannie and Freddie for trying to increase homeownership, while criticizing various polices at the two firms. They’ve put more of the blame for the housing crisis on poorly regulated Wall Street banks. House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.), who comes under some criticism in the GOP report, has said more foreclosures were caused by unregulated entities rather than Fannie and Freddie. He has also noted that Republicans were in control of Congress from 1995 to 2007, when the housing bubble was created.”
“The GOP staff report ties the Obama administration to Fannie and Freddie by noting its connections to former Fannie Mae President Jim Johnson, who was involved in President Obama’s search for a vice president, as well as White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel’s appointment to Freddie Mac’s board. It also points to a paper co-authored in 2002 by Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Director Peter Orszag that, according to the GOP report, minimized the risk Fannie and Freddie were taking on in terms of the capital the housing firms had to back their loans.”
“OMB spokesman Kenneth Baer defended Orszag’s finding…’This paper, written seven years ago with Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz, was based on applying well-established econometric techniques to historical data,’ Baer said in an e-mailed statement. ‘Even so, the authors highlighted the risks of ‘another Great Depression-like scenario’ or severe housing market downturn — and time has unfortunately proven this caution well-founded.’”
“Baer said Orszag has forgotten how much Fannie Mae paid him and the others to write the report.”
“GOP politicians criticized by the report include former Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), whom the report suggests caved to pressure from Fannie and Freddie lobbyists by stripping Rep. Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) of his subcommittee’s jurisdiction over the GSEs after he scheduled hearings on Freddie Mac’s use of improper accounting procedures in 2004.”
“Hastert instead handed the task over to then-Rep. Michael Oxley (R-Ohio), ‘for whom Freddie Mac held at least 19 campaign fundraisers.’”
It’s kinda funny to watch these politicians point fingers about the GSE’s. The truth is, almost everybody was getting something; that’s the way the whole deal was set up.
Here’s a suggestion for DC or a reporter; why not look at the GSE role in the housing bubble, and all the corruption that has gone on for decades, with an eye toward getting rid of these fat cats and their dirty political machine?
Are you trying to empty out DC?
We could turn it into a giant pig farm with the world’s largest trough, that way it’ll be pretty much the same.
What short memories we have. The Dems took over the Senate in 2002 or 2003 when Jeffords of Vermont turncoated. Little Tommy Daschle (D) then became Sen majority leader.
Nope. Senate was still republican majority till yesterday.
And the congress is equally full of idiots/liars/ and greedy pigs, but those 20 or so dems in congress are in name only. They are really republican and always vote that way.
Bottom line, they all suck.
pismo!
“What short memories we have. The Dems took over the Senate in 2002 or 2003 “
Are you on crack the republicans have not had control of either house nor senate for some time. Democrats are to blame especially Dodd, Pelosi, and Barney Frank.
I agree 100% Ben, but you and I both know this is never going to happen.
“His lender offered to take the appraised price, but then said Schlips would have to pay $158 every month for the next 30 years to make up the difference. ‘I’ve been trying to sell this house for three years and I’ve maintained the lawn, maintained the house, maintained the pool and then when I do get an offer not only will they not agree on it but they wanted me to pay the difference,’ said Schlips, who said he went through his life’s savings dealing with the house. ‘Everything I’ve had is gone.’”
Boo fawkin hoo for Gary Schitlips. You bought it, you own it. Now eat it……..bish.
‘an investor from Ohio who bought a new North Port home during the housing boom in 2006′
Yeah, let’s cry a river for this fool. This was possibly the worst house purchase in the history of man - North Port, FL in 2006! I’d like the reporters to ask some UHS that was flogging this stuff back then, if they are willing to give some of those commissions back to this poor speculator.
The Schlips story is unbelievable, like he wants acknowledgment for mowing the lawn! LOL.
As if buying in North Port in 2006 doesn’t make him sucker enough, this guy is the only guy in Florida keeping his flopper pool blue. Let it go, man. Let it go.
I’m glad he’s still maintaining the pool, do we know the address of the failed flip?
POOL PARTY!
LOL
Pool Pahtaaaaaaaaaayyyyy.
Last one in is a rotten egg.
SplaaaaaaaaaaSh.
HBB MEET-UP!
I’ve got a Baby Ruth for him, ala Caddyshack.
Strangely enough, last week my 80something mom was talking about buying a place in FL and she asked me to dial up some info. Northport, Lehigh Acres and environs show brand spankin’ new never been lived in 3/2 ranches for $70k…… with no buyer in sight at that price. She was astonished.
How much is a house worth that has no nearby shopping, no nearby businesses, no restaurants, no attractions, poor access to nearby highways and is 40 miles from the beach and sits in the middle of a mosquito-infested swamp??
Would you give me $50,000 to live in this place?
Would you?
Oh, i forgot to add, i have a friend that lives in a trailer in a similar location.
What a Wendy’s burger? Well, it’s only 15 miles to the nearest one and the nearest “convenience store” is 7 miles up the road. That store closes at around 6 pm and is not open on Sunday.
Think of how inconvenient life is when you live in the middle of nowhere. This is not a farmland economy anymore, but you are living on a mini-ranch with no land and no livestock.
But the price was low.
I wouldn’t offer two dimes to rub together but that’s just me.
What exactly is wrong with the appraisal? If the only comps, within the last 90 days, are distressed sales, that is the market.
$158/month for 30 years? Pay is sucka. 36 months of PITI were probably much more.
” who said he went through his life’s savings dealing with the house. ‘Everything I’ve had is gone.’”
Greed is good? lol Gary, look around the poker table and tell me who the pansy is. Need a mirror? Ask your mortgage broker to loan you the one you fogged.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
“Need a mirror? Ask your mortgage broker to loan you the one you fogged.”
ZING!
“‘We’re very unlikely to implement another moratorium,’ Wheeler said but noted that the Treasury will monitor how many foreclosed homes are dumped into the market, suggesting officials could take other steps to prevent a flood of lender-owned properties.”
Note to young people: the government wants prices to go down slow, to screw as many knife catchers as possible, rather than fast, with a possible upside for buyers. Don’t overpay to Generation Greed. Keep renting until prices are low enough to offset all the additional taxes you will pay, all the government services you won’t get, and the lower wages and benefits you will get on the job.
And don’t buy a car either. Ride a bicycle.
I especially like your last paragraph, WT Economist. Ride on!
Great message!
The powerless are not powerless at all. Think of all the parties out there begging for your bucks right now: speculators, early retirees, UHS, Gov’t Motors, retailers, and taxing bodies nationwide to name a few.
We all have to ask ourselves - who do we work for? For the banks? For gamblers? For incompotent and corrupt pols?
Indeed we are quite powerful. Some data points that I’m seeing:
1. Locally owned, independently operated stores are gaining business here in Tucson. The chains seem to be suffering more.
2. So are grassroots-driven community groups. Prominent example: our community radio station, 91.3 KXCI-FM. In the interest of full disclosure, I’m on the station’s fundraising committee, so I’m close to the news here. KXCI recently had a record-breaking fundraising drive, both in terms of total amount raise and the size of the average pledge.
3. Michelle Obama and the girls aren’t the only ones out there gardening. There’s a nationwide resurgence underway. Same goes for all sorts of other DIY projects.
The Queen in England has now planted a vegetable garden at Buckingham Palace. Going back to the victory gardens.
I wouldn’t plant the Queen of England, or her vegetable garden.
WTF? Go plant a tree where a house once stood. Or no, I guess it should be a cactus.
Think of all the parties out there begging for your bucks right now:
You forgot to add strippers and other women in other branches of that “industry” to the list.
“You forgot to add strippers and other women in other branches of that “industry” to the list.”
And MEN.
Note to self, don’t watch that show called ‘Hung’. Was told it didn’t hang so well.
And stop buying stocks in your 401Ks, the hidden fees and market manipulation makes you a sucker while enriching Wall Street and fund managers. Go cash or short term treasuries and don’t buy the “Inflation will eat you alive” argument they make. A 40% drop in your 401K is something you can NEVER recover from.
“And don’t buy a car either. Ride a bicycle.”
can I get a Vespa instead?
If you live in Los Gatos CA you are issued a Vespa a birth.
I’m happy enough with my bicycles (one cheap road bike and one not-so-cheap mountain bike) and would be happy to live in a one bedroom apartment in Tucson when the economy gets far worse. I have my location in mind. The place I lived in back in 1997 to 2000 with my girlfriend is still about the same price range $629 to $769 (I paid $650) and in the best area of Tucson! And not far from one of my stashes of precious metals.
Deflation? Bring it on!
“Note to young people: the government wants prices to go down slow, to screw as many knife catchers as possible, rather than fast, with a possible upside for buyers. Don’t overpay to Generation Greed. Keep renting until prices are low enough to offset all the additional taxes you will pay, all the government services you won’t get, and the lower wages and benefits you will get on the job.”
Very well written, WT.
I hope we have many a youngin’ reading this board. They need to heed your advice. There’s nothing for them left. No reason to ante up when there’s not a pot to piss in.
[Appraisal rules] meant to create a firewall between real estate appraisers and mortgage lenders are instead scuttling home sales
Some friends of mine are watching their house sale fall through due to that. It wasn’t just an appraisal based on foreclosure sale prices and the like. Theirs had an appraiser (who travelled two counties over to their place) underestimate the sqft of the house by 25%! He marked the wrong type of siding (he put vinyl; it’s brick). He had loads of interior features just plain wrong. Was he even in the same house? He even missed exterior structures — even though they are in his photos. Total negligence.
And now all he will say to them is that he “stands by my appraisal”, and the seller and buyer are now both dismayed. The bank doesn’t seem inclined to pursue it, though I guess the buyers could ask to pay for a different appraiser and take their chances.
Personally, if I were in my friends’ shoes, I’d take a chance and give the buyer $400 so they could get a second opinion — if it the bank would do it. But I’m not sure the bank can even do that under the new rules.
My how times have changed.
To give the Real estate types their due, there ARE plenty of bad appraisals now. The difference is that NOW a large portion of them are underestimating the value, rather than almost all of them overestimating the value, as was the case for the past few years.
I wouldn’t call those undervaluing appraisals bad, I would call them prescient.
Yes, there are plenty of bad appraisers out there.
I refi’d from a 30yr fixed to a 20yr fixed a few months ago. The appraiser was a young kid from another county who walked into my 1873 farmhouse and marvelled at everything inside and out. He then went on say to my wife that he had no idea how to value the house since it wasn’t a 1960s brick ranch like every other appraisal he did. My wife suggested looking at older houses that had sold recently.
Bad suggestion - he found 3 comps from 10+ miles away. We live in a school district that is rated “Excellent” in Ohio. 2 of his 3 comps came from a school district rated 5th worse in the state. And he also incorrectly measured the house.
I complained to the bank that the appriaser totally botched the comps and had no idea what he was doing (even provided some comps myself). All to no avail. The bank would not reconsider the appraisal.
I went ahead with the refi using his numbers because I have 20_% equity even with his numbers. Bbut the appraisal was by no means professional, to my detriment.
Where was the complaints of the high appraisals during the boom?
They’re supposed to find the ‘value’ the 2nd greatest fool would pay. The REIC is having fits as they can only sell based on the value to the greatest fool.
Yes, there are many bad appraisals out there now. But the purpose of the appraisal is to protect the lender (or whomever they sell the bonds to). Its not to help the seller, the Realtors ™, or the mortgage broker. The apprisal is to protect the bag holder. There was no such protection on the way up. Is it any surprise on the way down?
My how times have changed.
Past due. After previous loose credit times, we’ve seen credit so tight 50% down was required! So be thankful the ‘overshoot’ isn’t worse.
I predicted a long time ago that 25% down would be the norm. We’re not there yet. But if the way to get there is low appraisals… so be it. Since underwritting was too lose for too long, it will become ‘unfairly’ too tight. Cest la vie.
That is when its time to buy. I plan to put 30% down. If required, we’ll put down more. But now is not yet the time to buy.
Oh, the wifey is getting nervous enough that she no longer wants to go ‘all in.’ She now wants to hold $100k back ‘just in case.’ Before I really disliked how much she was watching HGTV. Now… they have all these shows that illustrate the $50k+ in repairs/renovation/furniture required to make a house livable. (Note: $30k of that is for a new car I’ll need within 3 years.) Gee… reserves… I bet banks will start requiring that too (already needed for jumbos…).
Got Popcorn?
Neil
If someone were approaching the buying mood, and appraisals are coming in under wishing price by some margin, I wonder if it would be sensible to commission your own appraisal (from some certified group) and use that as a bargaining chip with an offer 30 percent or whatever lower than ask. When the seller and UHS are aghast, whip out the appraisal and say, “That’s what it might be worth.”
I infer that a lot of people here think they can make their own valuations and have no quarrel with that of course. I think, rightly or wrongly, I can do the same thing. The devil’s detail is what a property may be worth in 12 or 36 months, I suppose.
So is paying for a semi-official appraisal yourself a good idea? If it ends up being calculated by a certifiable wonk and comes in wayway high, you could always crumble the paper. Oh, and I get the idea that it is the bank’s appraisal that matters, so we don’t need to go there.
The appraisal is to protect the bagholder
True! But my complaint in this instance would be that the appraiser didn’t even do the basics of the job. It wasn’t because of comparables in the area or even far away — missing 25% of the square footage as well as other big things really is shameful, and in that case, that’s when I’d ask for another appraisal.
We recently purchased a house with a 30 year fixed, with over 10% down, so it was not FHA. We were required to have savings in reserve. Not a jumbo loan. So it’s already happening …
“Recent reports hint at the next wave of foreclosures. In the first quarter, 1.8 million homeowners nationwide fell behind on their loans by 60 to 90 days, a 15 percent increase from the prior quarter, according to Economy.com. The research firm said that loan defaults rose sharply as well, to 844,000 in the first three months of this year.”
And as unemployment spreads like cancer across the country, the options dwindle, the problems intensify, the solutions vanish. Anyone who thought, “this time is just like every other time” in economic downturns, now gets to revisit their faulty analysis and rethink it, like a mule hit cruelly between the eyes with a 2 x 4. Every single discernable aspect of current government policy guarantees a worse outcome than ever before. Never before have so many been shocked to find that they personally had so little net worth than they thought. Never before have so many been shocked to find there were collectively so few employment alternatives than they thought. Never before have so many realized, they now depended for welfare upon a State that already spent itself into oblivion. Never before did they realize, that the chickens have come home to roost, and I am one of them, and there is no food or solace in the coop.
‘Every single discernable aspect of current government policy guarantees a worse outcome than ever before. Never before have so many been shocked to find that they personally had so little net worth than they thought. Never before have so many been shocked to find there were collectively so few employment alternatives than they thought.’
I agree. And this gets back to what I see as the biggest failure of the government so far; not explicitly acknowledging there has been a housing mania and going from there. Because if that were the case, the first obvious problem is dealing with a post-bubble economy, not trying to perpetuate it.
But maybe they aren’t trying to perpetuate it. Maybe they are just trying to slow down the bust? The pain is going to be felt either way, but whose to say that this way is the worst way?
I like your anger towards the clean up crew…meanwhile Bush is off someplace replenishing the coffers, laughing his ass off.
What, no anger for him? Or deficits don’t matter Cheney? Did you ever show any contempt for them?
Doubt it!
the first obvious problem is dealing with a post-bubble economy
Checkmark. (is there a smilie for that on this blog?)
We need infrastructure. That will get J6P working again.
Delaying the obvious is creating a huge issue. For example, aerospace lags the economy. Airlines by 3 to 5 quarters, airframers by 8 to 12 quarters. I do not see how United Airlines (UA) is going to survive longer than the end of 1Q 2010. What’s “O & co.” going to do with another 60,000? Another GM? Chrysler? That would doom AA.
I won’t bother talking about hotels. That’s as cheerful as discussing Iceland.
Everything points to the ’stability’ being at 75% of our previous rate of consumption. Let’s deal with that post bubble ‘factoid.’
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Neil,
I’m not an airline analyst, but I have a ton of clients that work for them. Delta was in trouble a ways back and I just see too many flights for too many places?
Whatever “O & co.” do is purely reactionary, these guys have been on an earthbound trajectory for…ever. As usual, I’ll make a MEW-distinction, but I think the explosion in air travel is definitely HB-related. Most of those people should have been taking Greyhound.
I can remember when Delta was considered to be the airline to take. Then they weren’t. What caused their downfall? I’ve never been able to figure it out.
Slim, do you really want an answer to that question?
“what caused their downfall?”
I have some answers and direct from friends who are in the industry.
“I can remember when Delta was considered to be the airline to take. Then they weren’t. What caused their downfall?”
I for one find Delta’s schedule, service, prices, and award miles to all be sucky.
Everything points to the ’stability’ being at 75% of our previous rate of consumption. Let’s deal with that post bubble ‘factoid.’
Too many things were structured based on an economy that was maybe 120 percent of a peak bubble economy - consumer debt, pension plans, money borrowed for education, money borrowed to expand businesses, etc. With a future economy, for a decade or longer, that might be no more than 70 to 80 percent of the peak bubble economy, that’s quite a gap. There’s no way all of the debt can be repaid and all of the obligations met. We must deal with both the past debt and building a new economy. We don’t have much of a start on either yet nor an acknowledgment that both are necessary.
That would be “change i could believe in”.
I don’t see that as even a remote possibility from the current administration. There are too many socialist programs to implement. They require lots of tax money and re -direction to government control. So they NEED to get back to “business as usual”, so they can TAX every business model.
The Obama administration doesn’t understand that they can’t get the machines started again, and giving lots of money to Wallstreet and their gangster buddies won’t help the Country in the least.
“Anyone who thought, “this time is just like every other time” in economic downturns, now gets to revisit their faulty analysis and rethink it, like a mule hit cruelly between the eyes with a 2 x 4. Every single discernable aspect of current government policy guarantees a worse outcome than ever before. Never before have so many been shocked to find that they personally had so little net worth than they thought.”
You took the words right out of my mouth. But here’s the deal. Not one of the believers will admit to the collapsing net worth number. Why? You said it…. shock. The denial no longer has an arrogant nuance to it. It’s silence…. Silence is precisely what I observed when I administered a smackdown to a Housing Disciple last week. Silence………… and a painful grimmace appeared on his face. That’s when I stopped. I didn’t need to explain that everyone was persuaded that housing is an investment and people included that number in their fantasy wallet…. and that many others treated it as an investment vehicle that cashflowed….. nope. No longer necessary.
“spent months working with a homeowner to craft a proposal for the lender. When the final settlement offer was made, an offer Smith said was manageable, the woman refused it, saying she wanted even better terms. The bank said no, and the client came back to Smith asking what should she do. ‘It was hard for me to say this, but it was, ‘Go get some boxes.”
It’s not hard for me to say…
GO GET SOME BOXES.
I know. It was hard not to make that the title…
Ben Jones,
LOL! You know it’s not too late?
Yeah, typical of Dupage County. Everyone thinks just plunking down roots there provides every assurance of success. I still remember the stories of the Wheaton family giving starving indians corn from their back porch. How very generous ( and superior )
Hated it!
“Now go home and get your f’ing shinebox!”–
Goodfellas
It’s so typical of Republicans to blame the GSEs when it was Wall Street’s private securitization machine that blew the housing bubble to such a gargantuan size that it finally burst. That’s sort of like calling attention to a small bruise on the surface of an apple, when the whole apple itself is rotten to the core.
“It’s so typical of Republicans to blame ”
Isn’t it time on this board to move forward? Get a grip, this is not just a Repub or Demo sponsored event, forget this party crap. This became for whatever reasons a forgone ‘mania’ and the hysteria and greed that kicked it off is still lurking in the wings.
True enough, Salinasron.
Keeping the pleebs fighting over dems or repubs being at fault is how the elected PTB keep us from realizing that it should be us against them, chucking the whole lobby/money/campaign machine out on its keister.
Agreed. I hate everyone in the REIC equally
I couldn’t agree more. I say the same thing to political partisans that I say to religious zealots - ‘I agree with all of you, each of you is correct when you say all of the others are completely wrong and are to be condemned.’
I wish a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian etc.. would say:
I blame all of us. I blame Fannie, I blame wall street, I blame the Federal Reserve Board, I blame the GSE’s, I blame the voters, the lobbyists, most of all I blame myself. Now, wouldn’t that be refreshing to hear.
most of all I blame myself
Why would anyone on this board blame themselves?
If one has voted against those in power, has lobbied against (or for) certain legislation, and has ultimately tried to avoid this outcome and change things for the better…
Why would I blame myself for this mess?
drumminj,
My fault and apologies, I left out representative or senator from my first sentence.
It should say:
I wish a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Independent Senator or Representative would say:
I blame all of us. I blame Fannie, I blame wall street, I blame the Federal Reserve Board, I blame the GSE’s, I blame the voters, the lobbyists, most of all I blame myself. Now, wouldn’t that be refreshing to hear.
Why would a libertarian or a “L”ibertarian blame himself? Name me one Libertarian office holder who voted for any of the stuff leading to the housing bubble.
Name me one Libertarian office holder. There’s your answer.
Ron Paul
He’s right about Securitization being the problem.
It wasn’t low interest rates - rates are low now and the problem isn’t fixed.
It wasn’t GSE’s - GSE’s have been buying more loans not selling, thus they can’t be blamed.
The problem is that securitization followed by corrupt rating’s got a lot of people to buy a lot of worthless paper, meanwhile, the CEO’s of banks made huge cash playing musical chairs with other peoples money. Now investors realize that the music has stopped and there aren’t enough chairs (ie money) for everyone.
Now both dems and gop get blame for
Rolling back Glass Steagle and allowing securitization business and corrupt rating agencies to rape the country. They all suck
It’s so typical of Republicans to blame the GSEs when it was Wall Street’s private securitization machine that blew the housing bubble to such a gargantuan size that it finally burst. That’s sort of like calling attention to a small bruise on the surface of an apple, when the whole apple itself is rotten to the core.
My main problem with the attempt to blame this on attempts to put more people in houses was that much of what occurred during the bubble was mostly about enriching those in the housing industry, not putting more people in houses.
Putting more people in houses, even temporarily, was simply the means used by some to get very, very rich. Policies to put more poor people in housing go back to the Carter administration. However, it wasn’t until it was exceedingly profitable for a select few that these people were actually put in houses. These poor people were just a means to an end. There was no concern about whether any of this was sustainable.
They also are members of Columbus’ Bengali community who say they were taken by a fellow native of the Bengal region of India. About 300 Bengali families live in central Ohio. Some wanted to cash in on the red-hot housing boom four years ago. Others simply wanted to help a friend launch a career.
Walk like a Bengali…. (To the tune of Walk Like an Egyption)
All the documents on the homes
They say you past due don’t you know
If foreclosed real quick (oh whey oh)
They’re falling down like a domino
All the bazaar men by the Nile
They got the money on a bet
Gold Escaladses (oh whey oh)
They snap their teeth on your down payment
Foreign types with the hookah pipes say
Ay oh whey oh, ay oh whey oh
Walk like an Bengali….
Colorful spin on Affinity Fraud! Loved it. Again, so much of what ‘appeared’ legit, barely survives the first few rays of light. Guy invents “Ensure” and now will likely die broke.
He’ll probably recover a bit, but it sounds like he put all his retirement eggs in one handbasket and sent it down the river Styx, doesn’t it?
No cush retirement for them. Hopefully they’ll embrace a small paid off house and frugal living.
“‘Let the market decide on how our homes are bought and sold, period,’ Councilwoman Deb Salyards said.”
Deb Salyards for PRESIDENT !!!!!
Cool! She could be our first woman president.
Deb is a babe!
“Ann Patterson, who has good credit and has never missed a mortgage payment is trying to renegotiate an adjustable rate mortgage with Wells Fargo that has spun her monthly payments out of control. They refuse to negotiate with her. She said, ‘We’ve lived in the house for 12 years. We don’t want to be martyrs, but we’re not going to let these houses go without a fight.’”
You gotta wonder and the gall of some of these people. If she has lived in a house for 12 years and is now dealing with an adjustable rate then she almost certainly cashed out some equity/used the house as an ATM. Now she wants WF and/or the taxpayers to bail her out? And if they don’t then she’ll consider herself a martyr? Is she freakin’ serious?!?!?
Yah, I have no tears for this lazy bint or her family. At 12 years, they bought well outside the peak of the bubble and should have no problem selling the house if they didn’t want to live there or making the payments. Since they just had an adjustable rate reset on them, I’m guessing cash out refi 2 and a half years ago at a teaser rate for the maximum value of the house.
GO GET SOME BOXES!
This has the making of a SNL skit. Go get some boxes! ….love it!
Yes she is serious.
That Minneapolis article is just rich with red meat. From the attorney who stated that “housing is a human right”…
well yes that’s why Section 8 was created.
To this lady who just as you suggest likely cashed out equity, thinks she’s entitled to renege on the deal she made with the devil. She’s in Minnesota, maybe newly jammed through Senator Al Franken AKA Clown Without Peer can help her stay in her shack. Good luck with that Ann girly.
HEY….you all say congress are clowns well we got a real one elected
Maybe a Clown can tell the truth…..like a comedian can That would be refreshing
“She’s in Minnesota, maybe newly jammed through Senator Al Franken AKA Clown Without Peer can help her stay in her shack. Good luck with that Ann girly.”
But Senator Al Franken was a “professional” type clown and who knows ?
He can hardly do a worse job than the angry, drab, rank amature clown that he just replaced.
Smile….”It’s Saturday Night Live” from the Senate…. Norm !!
The shortfall, the report concludes, is the result of a lack of homeowner awareness as well as agencies too strapped to do more.
Homeowner awareness, my arse, if by now a ‘homeowner’ has no idea what is going on and what ‘programs’ are available, then they are deaf, dumb, blind, or don’t care. Or in some cases think it’s not fair, not their fault and think the gubmint should just give the them the damn house.
I believe that homeowner awareness and strapped agencies have little to do with it. They’re glossing over the fact that Illinois is a recourse state. Housing councellors can talk until they’re blue in the face, but there is not much incentive for Illinois lenders to do anything other than stretch out terms or offer very temporary lower payments. An FB essentially can only escape by declaring bankruptcy, which is not what the “it’s not fair, not their fault and think the gubmint should just give the them the damn house” crowd wants to hear.
From the Minneapolis piece:
In a press release the organizers recognized that the City Council Resolution was a “recommendation,” and “It will take the power of the people to demand that the banks and mortgage companies institute policies that stop putting people on the street through foreclosures and evictions.” The demonstrators then marched down 31st Street to Chicago Avenue and over to Lake and 10th Avenue to the US Bank.
The poor sots don’t get it -
The bailouts were of the banksters, by the banksters, and FOR the banksters.
Community Organizers:
NO BAILOUT FOR YOU!
to demand that the banks and mortgage companies institute policies that stop putting people on the street
Do they really want credit that tight?
Pay the mortgage or hand over the keys. If the bank decides the best solution is to renegotiate the mortgage (as selling to the current resident can/will pay more than a new resident after transaction fees)… that is ok.
But mandating banks ‘make things right’ is only going to continue to tighten credit. Look at the reaction from the credit card companies… New rules for them mean new rules by them.
Oh, I agree with the note that too many used the home as an ATM. Its broken and now there are fees to be paid for having used it.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Got Boxes?
We’re gonna go to the supermarket
We’re gonna go to the liquor store
Were gonna get us a U-Haul trailer
You know what those boxes are for.
“Cardboard Boxes”
Loudon Wainwright III
(a hoot, on u tube if anyone has time and needs a chuckle.)
Hahahaha. I love it!
Way too funny!!!
Got Boxes? That will be my new response to the nattering ninnies here in Calvert County, MD who proclaim we are at a housing bottom. Prices may have dropped by 15% after surging more than 200% since 2000. Lot’s of denial going on here.
Got Boxes of…(popcorn?)…
” demand that the banks and mortgage companies institute policies that stop putting people on the street”
I would have thought that getting a notice of default would be plenty of warning to go find yourself an apartment or other living arrangement. Except for the stupid or terminally stubborn do we see anyone sitting on the street next to their belongings claiming they never saw it coming ?
The U.K.’s self-appointed queen of law and order, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, has taken over the HBB server. Certain posters are banned.
Nah. Must be a brownout near Flagstaff.
Does Smith even still have a job?
From the comments on the Trib article:
“I heard from a friend who works at a bank about a man who hasn’t made a payment since last August crying that he needs a loan modification. Upon reviewing the man’s bank statements, he found $85 in “expenses” (3 mos in a row)to a nail salon. When asked, he replied (in Spanish) “My wife has fake nails, and gets her toes done in the summer.”
Hmm…he can’t pay on the house, because wifey needs a mani-pedi. Its people like this who need to be living in cardboard boxes. They don’t deserve anything better.”
I didn’t watch the video, but I must say I feel sorry for that Mrs. Bailey. I cannot imagine working hard to make the mortgage, getting kicked out on the street, and watching the amoral vultures scoop up my personal belongings. That makes me sick.
I used to hate seeing my apartment management evict people. They’d through everything out on the street and all the furniture was always smashed to bits. It had to have been deliberate. There’s no way that simply setting down a table and chairs would tear all the legs off, or destroy a dresser.
If I were her, I’d take the eviction company to court. They should at least have put the stuff in a storage unit.
““‘We’re very unlikely to implement another moratorium,’ Wheeler said but noted that the Treasury will monitor how many foreclosed homes are dumped into the market, suggesting officials could take other steps to prevent a flood of lender-owned properties.””
other steps?? like what? a raindance maybe? lookout foreclosures… we’re fixin’ ta raindance yer azz.
Boxes, Boxes, and MORE Boxes, we all gotta get…BOXES!!!
“Oly you got a BOX” ??
Sheesh…I said the other day my LL bought a Pondersoa Poorhouse McMansion in the country, is moving out from downstairs and that I was LOOKING for a small cardboard box that could handle a few tiny windows and a little door just to be on the safe side.
Next thing I KNOW, we have wild speculation and “Box Bubble”
“Hey….Get YOUR CLAMMY LITTLE HANDS off of MY tator tot box Olygal !!”
Oly I forgot a smiley face behind my previous… So, here is gender neutral smiley face, (just tryin’ to help),
What I want to know is where do these people come from? Why in the world would you agree to participate in a news article where you come out looking like a jack ass! For their 15 seconds of fame?
Obviously Ann Patterson used her home like an ATM card as someone else mentioned. Do these people really expect us to feel sorry for them???
I read these countless news articles and wonder how they find these saps willing to use their name and situation. If I was a deadbeat I wouldn’t want anyone to know about it…yet these deadbeats want their name in the paper…
It boggles the mind…
Yeah…America is turning into one big happy Jerry Springer Show.
It gives us something to talk about - the idiocracy. Darwinism is not working in the short run, but the short run is probably several generations of humans, unfortunately. Of course, Darwinism works in the long run.
The government sets up the regulatory environment in which business operates.
I expect greed and every underhanded tactic to try and game the system from businesspeople. That’s why we have regulators/politicians.
Politicians talking about limiting entities that have rewarded them handsomely seems like a “tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.
The renters hiss….we don’t need no stinkin boxes
I don’t know..I have a big stack of boxes in the storage area downstairs….you know, for boxing stuff up when I move…
But, at least *I* get to choose when I move
Me too X 2
me 3
Having moved 10 times in 20 years, I too keep a stack boxes in storage.
“‘The reason they under-appraised it is because they based it on two recent short sales and a bank-owned property that sold,’ Schlips said. ‘What rules they are using to appraise it on are ridiculous.’”
What word is the opposite of ridiculous?
A HBB classic:
“Go get some boxes.”
HA HA HA HA HA
I have no time for all of this housing nonsense. Don’t you guys care at all about Michael’s funeral ceremony? Geez, prioritize.
Thanks for your sarcasm.
…You are being sarcastic…I hope…aren’t you?
MJ would NOT be a superstar if he was 22 today, he has no ghetto cred or swagga , and that relegates him to the back of the bus with the nerds
“Box me up Scotty”
the new climate bill (cap and trade) states that individuals can’t finance a home for the buyer, seller financing. Congress is protecting banks and screwing individuals as if we, using seller financing, helped contribute to the housing crises. the bill states that you must get a 30 year mortgage on a house from a bank. These Politicians are nutz.
Do you have a link? Man I hate all these damn riders attached to bills. A bill should focus on one issue only!
When the final settlement offer was made, an offer Smith said was manageable, the woman refused it, saying she wanted even better terms. The bank said no, and the client came back to Smith asking what should she do. ‘It was hard for me to say this, but it was, ‘Go get some boxes.’”
Greedy witch got what she deserved! Are we suppossed to feel sorry for her!
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