Bits Bucket For July 8, 2009
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
July 8, 2009
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U.S. mortgage fraud ‘rampant’ and growing-FBI…
SAN FRANCISCO, July 7 (Reuters) - U.S. mortgage fraud reports jumped 36 percent last year as desperate homeowners and industry professionals tried to maintain their standard of living from the boom years, the FBI said on Tuesday.
Suspicious activity reports rose to 63,713 in fiscal year 2008, which ended last September, from 46,717 the year before. California and Florida, centers of the housing bust, had the highest numbers of suspicious reports as foreclosures jumped, the stock market dropped and credit dried up.
“These combined factors uncovered and fueled a rampant mortgage fraud climate fraught with opportunistic participants desperate to maintain or increase their current standard of living,” the Federal Bureau of Investigation said in its report.
“Industry employees sought to maintain the high standard of living they enjoyed during the boom years of the real estate market and overextended mortgage holders were often desperate to reduce or eliminate their bloated mortgage payments,” it said.
Reports filed through March put fraud reports on track to top 70,000 in the current fiscal year, the agency said.
FBI = F#@ked Borower Investigators?
’bout time those guys woke up…..
They were awake. The Justice Department of the GWB administration repeatedly denied requests for more agents to deal with mortgage fraud.
I guess this announcement from the FBI is an attempt to get more funding for an expanded “Mortgage fraud department”?
I have no idea whether this latest announcement will be used to secure more funding to pursue mortgage fraud. Though since we’re apparently in a mood to spend money, that wouldn’t be a bad place to spend it.
I still wonder if the rampant mortgage fraud of 3 to 4 years ago had been aggressively investigated and prosecuted if we’d still be seeing the apparent surge in mortgage fraud.
The incentives would still be there, but some who committed earlier rounds of fraud would be in prison and earlier prosecutions might have served as a much greater deterrence to later fraud.
SDGreg,
Good points all. Personally I think on a risk-to-reward basis it just made too much “sense” to throw your hat in the ring and give it a shot? The liklihood of getting caught was/is so slim, why not?
In fairness to both administrations, it’s awfully hard to prove. In fact I recall it wasn’t until late 2006 when some Jihadi’s in SoCal ( Murrieta? ) laundered MEW-bucks to fund terrorist activities that anyone showed ‘any’ interest.
In fairness to both administrations, it’s awfully hard to prove.
I’m not so sure. There was a lot of fraud at a very basic level. How many of the stated income (”liars”) loans didn’t involve fraud either on the part of the borrower, the lender, or both?
The amount of fraud appears to have been so massive that even a well-intentioned enforcement effort might have had to be targeted to not be overwhelmed. What would have happened if the FBI had gone into one of the large lenders making large numbers of stated income loans in 2004 or 2005 (IndyMac or Countrywide e.g.), seized loan docs, and started evaluating them for fraud?
But I think your comments on risk-to-reward are on target. The potential rewards were very high and the risk nil due to an almost total lack of enforcement.
SDGreg,
I’ve long maintained that all that ever needed be done was to simply look at the activities of NAR/MBA’s ‘own’ members.
Start THERE!
How many articles has been posted one after the other, where REIC members were at the center of the Fraud? I can almost assure you this approach would reveal at least 70% of it. The rest is primarily “Fraud for Housing” ( not Fraud for Profit )
Most of the people who are involved in the Residential Real Estate business aren’t exactly charter members in Mensa. I’m betting that a simple comparison of 1040s to Mortgage Apps would be very profitable.
I think there were a lot of people thinking “The government can’t put ALL OF US in jail”.
I still like my idea of making a prison out of an abandoned development out in the desert somewhere. But I’m thinking I like someone else’s idea of “FEMA trailers surrounded by razor wire” even better……….that way, the Feds could roll into town with their own jail, and take it with them when they move to the next town……sorta like the circus.
I can see it now…….hundreds of FEMA trailers in an abandoned shopping center/factory parking lot, surrounded by razor wire and guards on Genie Lifts, and all the prisoners decked out in stylish orange jumpsuits and gold Century 21 Real Estate Blazers.
Now if they would only let me run the “re-education camps”………..
“We have seen the enemy and it is a spendthrift.”
I hope that you’re a Renter Pogo !
RE: U.S. mortgage fraud ‘rampant’
Yeah, and instead of some small teacher’s pension fund taking the bagholder hit, it’s the US taxpayer, as there’s no doubt all the former subprime biz is getting funneled thru HUD/FHA.
FHA/HUD underwriting still allows originators to select a particular appraiser to do their property inspections.
So it’s the same rackeetering scam-just a different bagholder for all the sh*t being peddled.
And there’s a real boatload of sh*t compared to the ‘88/’89 bust.
Justice needs to declare martial law in the real estate and loan industry.
Anybody with a whiff of current or former fraud and appraiser coercion gets rounded up and sent to a FEMA concentration camp.
Trial and bail hearing will be held in a couple of years.
That’ll clean the sewer up in a hurry.
“declare martial law”
Amen. Rather than spending precious time ( we just don’t have ) and billions of dollars pretending the REIC Cartel only needs a “bit of tweaking” we should have effectively Shut. It. Down.
Their “S.O.P” was SO… chaotic and such a free for all, there simply isn’t anything there worth salvaging! Why wasn’t this nipped in the bud from the git’ go?
Shut it down? And replace it with what?
“And replace it with what?”
Not my problem. Or *don’t replace it. Guys, this was the same rush to judgement that enabled an 1,100 page bailout bill to pass on 48 hours notice. The same “sense of urgency” that enabled all these buyer’s incentives to “keep the NAHB viable”.
This was the perfect window to put the brakes on and start from scratch. It’s really not that difficult. You can’t allow realtwhores to ALSO be the client’s mortgage broker and vice versa!
Apparaisers need to be a blind draw from a pool ( not hand selected by interested parties ) We needed to open the MLS so you don’t have to go thru a realtwhore to get your home listed. Put an end to pocket listings.
We lost sight of the fact that the only person that “brings anything to the party” is the freaking BUYER! Yet, in REIC-world, they’re the -last- party to fairly represented. I could go on…
Heck when I sold my house in San Jose, the buyer’s agent was also by an amazing coincidence was also his mortgage broker who by an amazing coincidene was also his appraiser.
Needless to say the buyer got foreclosed on about two years later.
Heck when I sold my house in San Jose,
So YOU’RE the one who caused this crisis! And YOU’RE the one who took the money and ran! It was up to YOU to see the scam that was underfoot and not accept that poor bank’s money without making sure you weren’t taking advantage of them with your unjustifiably high price, but nooooo…
DinOR - you don’t consider shutting down all real estate investing and declaration of matial law a “rush to judgment”?
Gimme some of what you’re smoking please. It sounds good.
Profitability is about information asymmetry. The MLS is a vital element of that asymmetry. Complex sales & mortgage documents are also vital to that information asymmetry. Without these things, why would we need realtors, mortgage brokers & lawyers?
Real estate is one of the key economic vehicles in the USA. Getting rid of the profits there leaves you with what? Health care? Let’s face it, we are dependent upon this stuff.
DennisN,
Buyer Agent + Mtg Broker = Not so odd.
Agent + Mtg Broker + Appraiser = Very odd.
Didn’t think that was legal in the State of CA.
packman,
Please tell me you’re kidding, right? Considering the context of wmbz’s article about the Fraud that is ’still’ going on ( and getting worse by the day ) ‘your’ response is what’s out there!
Much of the damage that’s been done, occured -after- it was obvious most markets peaked. Now we’ve got realtwhores bidding on the very debt tombs they placed people IN!
I understand the lack of regulation when we were debating whether or not a bubble did in fact exist, but when there was widespread panic over AIG, BSC etc. we were basically conducting business as usual for the REIC. How’s that working out for ya’?
So YOU’RE the one who caused this crisis!
NoVA,
Even worse - the buyer’s agent was one of those “se habla espanol compadre” guys who preyed on green-card guys immigrants like my buyer.
Of course, how many “fair housing” laws would I have broken had I refused his offer - above my asking price - and told him “hey Jose wetback - your money isn’t good here!” Once you open escrow you can’t back out just because you don’t like the attributes of the funding. And of course as a seller you don’t really see the details of the funding until it’s too late.
The buyer got 102% financing. That by itself made me shake my head.
DinOR -
Yes fraud is still going on, as it always has and always will. However it is not “getting worse by the day”. More and more is being exposed by the day. There is a huge difference. The falling tide is exposing the swimmers that didn’t wear suits. That doesn’t mean the swimmers just took their suits off.
Being that the REIC isn’t some singular entity - exactly how would you go about “shutting it down”? To really shut it down you would have to literally shut down the entire economy of the U.S. (and probably the world), and yes, declare martial law in the process. Do you really honestly believe that would be the best course of action?
packman,
It’s an expression of complete and utter frustration. One… step in the right direction would be getting Congress to publicly admit that in spite of the umbrella, they really ARE a single entity ( just different feifdoms )
No, I never advocated shutting down Home Depot’s across the land so let’s not get silly here, I -was- however advocating we shut down the MBA/MBS Securitization Juggernaut! If only for a week or so to get a damn grip on the situation.
There’s no doubt Fraud has always been w/ us, and you’re right, always will. But -never- on this scale before. There IS no historic precedent for what we’re experiencing presently. None. We used the “extraordinary times call for…” meme for everything ‘else’ but this somehow remained a sacred cow. There certainly couldn’t have been any harm in hitting the Re-set Button if only to assess the damage.
I’m not sure you realize how ingrained MBS are in every facet of our financial system. Virtually every 401(k), IRA, pension fund, etc. include them. I don’t think you could shut down the “juggernaut” without also shutting down these entities - entities which many people (retirees mostly) rely on to fund their daily activities.
And obviously a week wouldn’t do it. These things would probably need to be shut down for at least a year or two to get into any significant amount of the real fraud.
That’s assuming of course that the people who committed the fraud would actually *let* them be shut down.
I know (I hope) you were probably speaking facetiously, but know that in reality - even if such a move were feasible - it wouldn’t help a whit. Those at the top that are most responsible for the fraud would get off scot-free, while a few pawns here and there would be the ones to take the significant hits.
We may need to do a wholesale reset of the system, but it if so it shouldn’t be limited to the “REIC”, because the REIC isn’t the source of the problem, it only overlaps a little with the true source, which is the more general financial/governmental complex, with the Federal Reserve at its core.
packman,
Don’t know if you’ve noticed but a lot of those MBS tranches are basically worthless and non-performing anyway? Again ( and you keep assigning a broader application here ) it would never have been my intent to tell people in performing… mortgages to suspend making payments?
Look, we could have taken the system down for a decade and there’d still be bugs in it. I’ve never strived for perfection in this regard. This “Fed action” is what should’ve taken place before TAF/TSLF etc. was introduced. In the end, the -market- shut it down the following May when the Street said they wouldn’t buy (1) more “broker originated” loan. My point is that it should have never been allowed to deteriorate to that level.
Sorry but the whole MBS-Securitization Model ( although physically located on WS ) is clearly a function that would not exist had the REIC not demanded it. Thus, it’s part of the REIC.
” Why wasn’t this nipped in the bud from the git’ go?”
The sweet scent of EZ money was in the air and EVERBODY was in love with it DinOR.
It should simply be illegal to rate pools of loans substantially made up of loans without proven income to cover debt service at the highest possible interest rate of the loan.
Those loans are by their very nature speculative (cannot be investment grade).
There, problem solved…
” Guys, this was the same rush to judgement that enabled an 1,100 page bailout bill to pass on 48 hours notice.” DinOR
Same as the Patriot Act. No one read that prior either.
Is this something to do with our bad education systems nationwide..or is everyone attention deficit?
Sorry. What did you say about Micheal Jackson?
We’ll have Joe Arpeo from Maricopa County to run the prison. Triple wire and salami sandwiches!
Wouldn’t one expect mortgage fraud to be going down rather than up, due to diminished opportunity?
Are they just finding more past frauds? Or have the fraudsters moved on the public programs?
I think its like the Ponzi schemes. As long as real estate was going up 20% per year, it covered up a lot of the misdeeds.
WT Economist,
From what I read, it looks like it’s actually picking up steam. I happen to think it’s that sense of “REIC Entitlement” that’s driving this.
“Back in ‘06 this home would have sold for X, and that’s -exactly- what I’m going to get out of it! I just need to find an appraiser/title company/straw buyer to make that “happen”!”
Yes and this comment bears out my posting of yesterday. House in Campbell, Ca appraised at $800k for a refinancing, yet Zillow and AOl RE sites show it $562k and $504k respectively. Huge difference, yes?
potential buyer,
And it’s that “spread” is where the fraud often takes place! That’s the spread that Fraudsters are trying to “work”. If a home isn’t sold, bought, re-fi’d or MEW’d to death and you put half down and it’s lost half it’s value, it was just a bad investment?
They’re taking advantage of the fact that there are so many people out there trying to get out from under their re-set payments just to save their home. With all that activity they feel it will be easy to to accomplish this under “the cover of darkness” or safety in numbers.
What happened to Paladin? He used to tell stories about how hard it was to interest law enforcement in mortgage fraud.
I think someone got to him.
Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-08 05:09:17
They were awake. The Justice Department of the GWB administration repeatedly denied requests for more agents to deal with mortgage fraud.
Exactly. Along with the SEC as well.
Not quite yet good morning, Ben,everyone, but as we go through the day today keep in mind that in a just few hours it will be 12:34:56, 7/8/9!
Linear types and spreadsheet gerbils rejoice. Perhaps the quaffing of a small adult beverage might be in order to commemorate such an unique(ish) occurrence come lunchtime?
I propose the quaffing of shots of 20-20 (eeeewww) or Bacardi 151 while accompanied by the music of the 5678’s?
Captain John,
LOL! My SIL played in Japan w/ a 5678 “cover band” ( if you can believe ‘that’!? ) Cute costumes and perky tunes.
A friend recently told me that “The Japanese are the only ones that take American Culture seriously any more!” ( I think he’s right? ) There’s an 8 y.o on youtube ( Chi-chi ) that plays The Ventures note-for-note.
This date must be significant somehow. Housing bottom, thats got to be it. I’m buyin’ all the condoze I can sign up for today!
Housing bottom, eh? Only in the USA.
And thus the housing market in most other countries will bottom out at…
12:34:56 on August 7th!
What about Canada? (I’m not sure of their date conventions.)
Hi Alena,
A certain epistemological comfort neccesarily attends those who would from mere orderliness, a purpose divine.
Those who are about to sigh, salute you.
Wow ahanson,
I would have missed that if you hadn’t brought it up. Cheers !
“123—456—789 — we could use some — SUMMERTIME!”
It is 64 degrees in the Greater Milwaukee Area right now with an expected hi of 69 and a low of 62 tonight. Great sleeping weather but it’s been kind of chilly for the kids that want to go swimming around here.
mikey,
Welcome to Oregon! ( It’s like that -every- Summer )
Perhaps the quaffing of a small adult beverage might be in order to commemorate such an unique(ish) occurrence come lunchtime?
Or just put some whiskey in with the coffee
Oops, I missed that magic moment here on Eastern time. Will celebrate it later on Mountain or Pacific, when I will be with more friends anyway.
Yesterday, having missed a much better opportunity a week or two ago, I closed out my August 7500 put on the Dow; took a very small profit to preclude risk of any loss. However, I’m still bearish: see John Mauldin’s latest (actually written by Niels Jensen) — the basic message is, Japan Japan Japan.
Cool. I like things like that.
Today will be almost as fun as 03/05/07 was. I will toast to you, Ahansen.
Dang! I missed it here in the PNW.
However, I take solace that I saw this comment in time to relish in it Hawaii time.
“‘Ghostboxes’ haunt communities across U.S.
As big retailers go under, consolidate, blight is monument to lost job”
“Dead Boxes, can’t store things on the shelf”
My apologies to Alice Cooper.
Need a place for mass squatting? GO GET SOME BOXES! Big boxes, that is. Texas Blight.
Here in Arizona, there’s a group called Local First Arizona. It’s made up of locally owned, independently operated businesses. It appears to be thriving, signing up new members right and left, and getting lots of good press.
These are good times to be small, grassrootsy, and independent.
U.S. apartment vacancies near historic high…
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The vacancy rate for U.S. apartments reached its highest level in more than 20 years in the second quarter and could soon exceed record highs if the recession persists, real estate research firm Reis Inc said.
The national vacancy rate rose to 7.5 percent, the highest since 1987 and an increase of 1.4 percentage points from last year, according to a report Reis released on Wednesday. The record high was 7.8 percent in 1986.
“We are reaching that historic high very quickly,” said Victor Calanog, Reis director of research.
The second-quarter vacancy rate was 0.20 percentage point higher than the prior quarter and up from the cyclical low 5.5 percent reached in 2006, Reis said.
The U.S. recession has taken a toll on the U.S. apartment market, which largely relies on employment growth to fuel demand. Its largest tenant group, 18- to 24-year-olds, has been hardest hit by rising unemployment. Meanwhile, the apartment buildings sector has led all commercial real estate categories
on loan defaults.
Interesting. One would think that apartment vacancies would go down actually, as people get their houses foreclosed on. That appears to be overwhelmed by the number of people who can’t even afford an apartment anymore. I guess it’s fair to say that the 18-24 crowd is either moving back home, or else staying in school (e.g. in dorms)?
I think the “shadow” inventory of condos/houses for rent is increasing.
But a lot of them are being rented by the same people that lost a house to foreclosure down the street.
Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of empty homes, but there are still lots of people getting married and moving out.
And a lot of people dying, walking away, moving, defaulting… still way too many houses out there.
The population is still growing though…
“The population is still growing though…”
Lots of folks/kids/ ppl of all ages are moving in with parents/staying home, or sharing houses with coworkers.
Drive by several homes in nice neighborhoods with many construction type vehicles, no sedans, just work vehicles.
Well with so many empty houses and accidental landlords, maybe people are renting houses rather than apartments these days. The cost difference may not be significant.
This would tend to raise the appartment vacancy rate.
Would combining households play into this? Thanks to unemployment, I expect a lot of people are moving back in with the parents.
people are moving back in with the parents ??
Only as a absolute last resort…More likely
they are doubling or tripling up…Easy way to cut the cost significantly…Highest vacancy rate is in the one bedroom units…
Totally correct scdave….my Dad always told me, if you want to invest in apartments, make sure they are all two-bedrooms because when things get tough, people “double-up”….I am seeing just what you mentioned in my area of SoCal - lots of vacancies in the 1BD, less in the 2BD and none in the 3BD apartments…..
scdave and johnf, that is what I am seeing alot of, and have a friend who has rented out her casita, house, and is moving back in with her super senior folks, sister already lives in one room. And these women are just a few yrs shy of ‘normal’ retirement age.
And if I were to find a cheap, nice, large home, I am considering asking mom to move in. Then I take a breath and have a drink. The feeling subsides! lol
One would think that apartment vacancies would go down actually, as people get their houses foreclosed on. That appears to be overwhelmed by the number of people who can’t even afford an apartment anymore.
The big picture is there’s a glut of vacant houses, up to 20M nationally by some estimates. Couple that with incomes that are falling faster than rents and people have no choice but to double up which further increases the number of vacancies. If all types of housing available for rent were included, the vacancy rate would probably be higher.
“The vacancy rate for U.S. apartments reached its highest level in more than 20 years in the second quarter and could soon exceed record highs if the recession persists, real estate research firm Reis Inc said.”
Maybe it will exceed record highs because this isn’t a recession, but is really a depression.
Reis only tracks institutional grade properties, not 1-4 family homes, rented houses, rented condominiums, etc.
For all properties, we are already at a historic high, per the Census Bureau. Competition from the other properties is nailing the professional landlords.
Vacancies up and Rents are falling
Rents, meanwhile, are falling at the fastest pace in at least a decade. Effective rents, which include landlord concessions such as one month free rent, fell 1.1% in the first quarter and 0.9% in the second quarter to an average of $975 a month. The combined decline for the first half of the year was the largest since Reis began tracking the data in 1999.
Effective rents were down 2.9% in San Jose, the sharpest quarterly drop, to $1,430 a month. New York City had the largest 12-month rent decline, at 5.8%, to an average of $2,680.
“It is one of the worst second-quarter performances that we’ve seen,” said Ron Johnsey, president of Axiometrics Inc., an apartment-research firm.
Vacancies tend to rise during periods of high unemployment because household formation slows, as would-be renters double up or move in with family members. Those who do rent are more cost-conscious.
online.wsj.com/article/SB124701848135809721.html
Rents are not falling significantly in Houston.
A nice (not ghetto, less than 10yo) 1 bdr apt still rents for +/-$750 month. ($699 if you take the third floor walk up)
That may sound cheap to some of you, but remember that the J6P avg wage here is $10hr. This means it will take half your income after taxes to pay the rent.
2 bdrs from +/-$850 month.
Our cat of 14 years passed on last night, her sister last year so we are down to one cat who is hiding….she has never been alone before.
I boxed her up with Styrofoam and bubble wrap and added 2 20 oz coke bottles taped to the sides to buoy her and she floated out to sea near the whitestone bridge….just like her sister.
The hardest part is knowing how many cats are available even on CL and we just cant afford to get another pair and watch them grow.
My deepest sympathies for the loss of your kitty. Last month I had to put down my beloved kitty of 14 years. The sweetest kitty I’ve ever owned. She had FIP.
“The hardest part is knowing how many cats are available even on CL and we just cant afford to get another pair and watch them grow.”
I feel for ya. I can’t even look at the pet section on Craigslist. It makes me feel bad.
We always wind up with the pets people dump or are getting rid of. So even though we really couldn’t afford them we just couldn’t say no. If it shows up on my doorstep it has a home.
If it shows up on my doorstep it has a home.
And you call yourself “Wickedheart”?
Please accept my condolences. I remember how sad I was when our first cat passed on around 1972 - he was about 11 years old. Then we got 2 kittens in late 1973. About 10 years later, one of the two cats passed, and then finally the other one passed around 1986. I love animals but I’ve never been able to bring myself to get another pet.
18yr kitty from ittsy bitsy, got me through the big D, move back to NYC highrise, and then back again to the desert. Longer than any relationship. Damn that was sad. My heart goes with you.
That is sad DJ.
My condolences to you, I know how large a void they can leave.
We lost two of our four legged ‘kids’ in the last eight months, they didn’t take much space in our house, but took up a huge space in our hearts.
Sad story. I am fond of cats, they are mostly intelligent creatures.
Truely,
I like my four cats (well, at least three of them) a lot more than the two legged critters I deal with on a regular basis.
Is the 4th one stinky? I have a stinky cat too, but I like her anyway.
Sorry, Bill, but I’m not buying it. People who are fond of cats, and animals in general, make a commitment to them for life, and don’t give them away when they become inconvenient.
don’t give them away when they become inconvenient
Unfortunately a lot of people do that. That’s a friendship-ender for me, though, if someone does that. As one who’s involved in animal rescue, I just can’t accept people being so casual about just giving up an animal they made a commitment to.
Before you continue making any judgements, be sure you know all the facts. Now do you know all the facts about how I got the cat in the first place? Do you know how I gave the cat up for adoption? Do you know who received it? Do you know if that person is a good person or bad person? Do you know how much I paid to give the cat up for adoption?
Do you know how I feel about thing? YOU DO NOT KNOW THE FACTS. SO SHUT UP BLATHERING IJIT.
Truth hurts, doesn’t it?
I hope no dolphins choke to death on that bubble wrap and styrofoam.
You floated her down the river attached to foam and plastic?!?
No it was a sealed Box…..nothing else we can do….we cant bury her at our rental, and we had no money for cremation….its expensive in nyc.
When my 17 year old kitty died last fall, I looked into cremation, it was expensive but I was prepared to do it. But then SO surprised me, he’d built a little casket for her, and when I went to his house after work he was already digging a hole in the wooded area of his lot.
We gave her a proper burial, I can’t believe it’s still saddening me as I write this. But the point is I never thought about what choices big city dwellers have when their pets die. I guess you’re pretty limited.
Sorry for your loss, the little buggers do get under your skin…
This feline burial at sea with foam wasn’t the best idea for the environment, of course, but it makes me reflect on how the rest of us crazy humans tend to dispose of our remains, filling them with toxic chemicals and then sealing them up in an air-tight box.
Edward Abbey had it right when he said “I owe the Earth a meal” and requested he be buried in a cloth sack off the grid and with just deep enough and with some rocks “to keep the coyotes from scattering my bones.”
er, and just deep enough …
In Jersey, we’d just bury them in our backyard, like most folks, I guess.
From NYC, one could box up the dear departed and take transit or a Zipcar out to a decent-sized state park and find a quiet spot to dig a quick hole, I’d guess.
I’ve told my family that I will come back and haunt them if they do the fancy funeral thing for me. Cremation and Amazing Grace played on the bagpipes is my choice. Or they can bury me in the back yard and play John Barrowman singing Oh Danny Boy. Or any combination of the above.
Annually, the state has a burial ceremony for the remains that are left of those who have donated their bodies to science and/or medical education. ISTR that the medical students usually attend the service.
the rest of us crazy humans tend to dispose of our remains filling them with toxic chemicals and then sealing them up in an air-tight box.
Yar, it’s gross.
Now, first of all, I’m not ever gonna die. I’ve thought it over and decided I don’t hold with that. Nohow!
But, just in case I’m wrong there, I sure don’t wanna end up as bacteria soup, all soggy and sticky in the dark.
I love fire right now when I’m alive, and I’m sure I still will after, too, so I want to be fed to the bright flames. Why, I feel cozy just thinking about it!
Now, first of all, I’m not ever gonna die
Hey Oly, I’m with ya.
I don’t have any kids, so I haven’t added to the population and, frankly, I don’t see the point of dying.
Actually, I think I’d like that on my tombstone:
“I don’t see what purpose my death would serve”
Nuke me and scatter the dust to the four winds.
I’d get bored just lying around in some moldy old damp box in the same place for enternity.
Put me on a barge, push away from shore, and everyone short fire arrows at me..as the sun goes down. Ta da. End of story.
I’ve informed my family that I want to be frozen and fed through a wood chipper as was done in the movie “Fargo”.
Not sure if they’ll actually do it.
Edward Abbey is buried somewhere in Arizona. The location is known by his closest friends, and, no, folks, I wasn’t one of them.
So sorry to hear about your loss.
I lost my 18-yr old furry gal-pal a couple of years back - had her since I was at college, and she even moved from the UK to the US with me - and I felt like I’d lost a sister.
Though, for the sake of your other cat, it might be an idea to find a friend for them fairly soon: my other cat got really freaked and lonely without another feline for company, and no amount of human loving seemed to compensate…
People say cats are ’solitary’, but in my experience cats do rely on other cats for companionship.
Sorry to hear that aNYCdj…I just lost my 14 year old pup a few months ago…:(
Sorry for your loss, dj.
Sorry for your loss DJ. I still miss my two cats.
Take care of you, your girl friend and the lovely cat you still have.
Sorry for your loss dj. It hurts to lose some important being you love.
Our cat of 14 years passed on last night,
So sorry to hear, DJ.
One of the best things I heard from a friend after losing a pet was, “Don’t be sad because I’m gone, be happy because I was there”
MjM
And so thy thoughts, when thou art gone,
Love itself shall slumber on.
Percy Bysshe Shelley
You wrapped her up in stress bubbles! What a cool sendoff!
Yup Slim bubble wrap inside the sealed uspo priority mail box and a rose…she floated out so far we lost sight of her..
Thanks everybody!!
I’m at Panera working on grad stuff. The UHS lady next to me is gabbing about one of her clients that needs to sell because “they’ve decided they like traveling.” Yeah, I bet that’s why they want to dump their “dream house” on another greater fool — as well we all know, ownership precludes traveling.
I’ll be happy when the people at coffee shops start gabbing about the humidity again, or radio control cars for their grandkids, or their custom lures… whatever, anything but freaking housing.
Are we there yet?
They are offering the LSAT here in a few months. I think I will take it…
With all these houses going into forclosure, there has to be a need for a real estate attorney!
What do you lawyers on this blog think?
Hey Stp, all of my lawyer buds have told me to avoid getting into law. I don’t know why they say that since they all seem to be doing well, but I think they stress A LOT. My simple advice is if you can get through law school without debt, sure, why not. But the last thing you need is a $150k of LS debt on your back right now. I have one friend who has just that (just finished at Case Western) and he cannot find a job.
I don’t know how long you’ve been on the blog, but over the years I have mentioned a disproportionate number of my friends being lawyers, ranging from top-of-the-class U.Chicago/Cravath types all the way down to local guys/general practice that went to smaller state/private schools.
I think I would have been cool being the local guy getting his friends’ kids out of vandalism charges and whatnot, but I couldn’t get my brain together to score anything great on the LSAT.
So, here is a quick test of the HBB lawyers: If I were not a white male, but average Hispanic male, I would have been accepted into law school. What was my LSAT score?
In the wisdom of Larry the Cable Guy: 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name
So sorry, couldn’t resist.
Yeah, and your 99% wrong ass****. I’ll take 10 lawyers before 10 clients any day.
Sorry if you can’t take a joke. That’s obviously all it was. What did you call me? ass****? Hey, FU!
Nah peeps its azzhole its a little more dignified…LOL
Hey Stp, all of my lawyer buds have told me to avoid getting into law. I don’t know why they say that since they all seem to be doing well, but I think they stress A LOT.
I’ve heard the same from many friends, and I think the main reason is lots of long, tedious hours combined with a relatively high stress level. The keys are A.) picking a niche you’ll truly enjoy (e.g., patent law, environmental law), and B.) keeping one’s debt burden low. I think lots of attorneys end up on the corporate hamster wheel to pay off their student loan debt — they might derive some satisfaction from the job if they could work for themselves or work in a less lucrative sector.
The line of lawyers at the unemployment office is growing from what I’ve seen. Fewer people getting hired.
0?
Zero …Mostel???
“We’ll call it… we’ll call it… ‘Spring Time for Hitler!’ It’s sure to bomb!”
Stpn2me,
Not an atty., but WTF? Why *not take it? You can specialize in Mortgage Fraud! You guys be safe out there.
It’s a bad time to be entering the profession. Firms are letting people go right and left. A glut of of newbie attys keep entering the profession every year as the number of law schools go up and so do class sizes. Apparently everyone thinks they can wait this one out by hiding in LS for 3 years.
If you’re still convinced you want to go, get admitted to a school ranked in the top 20, or make sure you get a lot of scholarhip assistance. Students graduating with debts of $150K are not uncommon, so think carefully before you make this move.
Can you get yourself into the JAG corps? Let them pay for it. Or is it still age 40 and out unless you’re a general officer?
I started law school at age 40. After working for a living for many years, law school is like having a sabattical. The young kids who typically attend tense up and are miserable. My idea for improving the legal profession is making it a requirement for admission to law school that you have worked for a living for 5 years after your bachelor’s degree. This would weed out those who go to law school because they couldn’t think of anything better to do after college.
There is a glut of lawyers out there now. Think long and hard about joining them. If the road to riches were paved with real estate cases, the existing lawyers would just change the emphasis of their practice - and they could do this long before you could graduate from law school and pass the bar.
I went to law school because I had the technical background to become a patent attorney. Most lawyers can’t get into this niche - to even take the patent bar your undergrad major must be in about one of a dozen hard sciences or engineering.
Sadly nowadays patent applications are being outsourced to ghost writers in India. It’s not as nice a field as when I started.
I went to law school because I had the technical background to become a patent attorney.
Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!
I am a network engineer for the army. I dont think I would go into the court room or anything (criminal law). I would be more interested in constitutional law, computer fraud, security, etc…..
There will be more grants and such when I retire and I will be 43 years old.
I can’t help thinking that with your military background, computer fraud would be a great legal field for you.
One of my clients is an IP lawyer. Smart as a whip, and a darn good attorney too. The IP people are the brainiacs of the law profession, IMHO.
Thank you.
Vets get a very hefty preference for government jobs, if you think you might be interested. I think the military pension is suspended while a federal employee, but your years in count toward seniority, so, for example, you would already get 5 weeks vacation a year to start (not the 13 days regular newbies get).
I agree that you should be cautious about the debt. I had $70K when I graduated, but was able to pay it off in 3 years by living in a box on the edge of a bad neighborhood in Brooklyn and not spending much. A lot of state schools will give someone in the military immediate in-state status, but I don’t know if that applies once you get out. If you do decide to go, the area of law you practise in should be influenced by what your particular background (military, computer security, what ever else you have) gives you a leg up in. Remember, you would be starting out at the age you will be when you finish plus three more years.
Go ahead and take the LSAT for a blast if you want, just don’t let it influence your decision too much.
A lot of people who love law school, hate being lawyers. A lot of people who hate law school, love being lawyers. It is a weird profession that way.
ISTR that under CSRS military time counts towards a civilian retirement if you DIDN’T qualify for a military pension. Of course if any of the military time was before 1956, all sorts of complicated rules apply, and you may have to pay to get credit for those years. Under FERS, I think you have to pay in either case, but I may well be wrong.
Stepn, There has to be a great market for lawyers who can ALSO effectively tote small arms.
Heck I’m a lawyer and I have an FFL too…
So when the call goes out to send “lawyers, guns, and money,” you’re ready.
Hey Step, why not do something practical instead and go into film?
Check out the site, abovethelaw.com, which gives daily updates on layoffs. somewhat tabloidy, but does give a snapshot of what’s going on in law land.
I’ve hung around a couple of law schools and a few lawyers and discovered that I hate hearing about other peoples problems….and that’s JUST from the lawyers !
Better to start a real estate practice and then hire the unemployed lawyers …
They don’t advertise it, but the large law firms have been laying off existing staff attorneys and and cutting way back on hiring new associates. New attorneys (associates) in the large law firms work 80 hours a week for about 8 or 9 years, and then they either become a partner or get whacked. So there is a hellish stress level to consider.
I wouldn’t even think about going to law school if you have to borrow money to do it.
Step, don’t go to law school at age 40, unless debt free. P.S. Believe nothing you hear, and 1/2 of what you see re what a client tells you.
In some ways rewarding, in more ways not. Remember, we deal with emotional people and solve their problems. Plus, I do litigation. This means I fight smart people, (and my clinets) to earn my bread and butter.
Good luck Step, if you decide to become an attorney. It can be a rewarding experience.
clinets=hornets
you should stare at your laptop and crack up whenever she says something stupid. Driver her crazy LOL
Or lord stay away from law, it’s terrible right now and has been for 20 years. The field is way over saturated with lib arts majors who didn’t know what else to do with themselves.
Only if you can do it debt-free, at a top school, and have connections to get you a job after you graduate. The law schools hustle applications and lie like hell to keep their classes full. It’s a business like anything else.
Thanks for all your opinions. Seems like alot of lawyers dont like the degree, but they still use it when they need to. I dont want more debt and I will try to avoid it. I still have about $50 grand of GI bill left, so I intend to use it. I will finish my master’s while I am over here.
I like constitutional law..Ron Paul is sort of an idol with me..
Thanks again guys…what a great blog..
Con law is glamorous but pretty uncommon in practice.
I’d go one step further and say that there is virtually no demand for con law in the private sector outside of criminal defense. Ask any practicing attorney not employed by the government when they last confronted a constitutional issue in practice. The answer will likely come back “never”.
If you want to get into con law, these are you most likely career paths:
1. Law school professor; and
2. Staff counsel with civil rights organization (e.g., ACLU and others like it)
You do occasionally run into con law in education, but that still fits into “gubmint” work.
InMontana: How do you know what a lawyers undergrad is? Mine was not liberal arts.
They probably think they will make enough profit from the sale to fund a life of globetrotting. Hahahahha. These fools will never travel again, except from their apartment to their job so they can earn the money to pay off that old HELOC of theirs. Hey, travel this, buddy. Bwahahahahahah.
True story from just up the street from the Arizona Slim Ranch:
A young couple sold their house at the very top of Tucson’s housing bubble. That would be in Q3 2005. The reason for the sale was that the wife took a job 100 miles away from here.
The small town and the job didn’t strike their fancy. So, in 2006, she ditched the job, they ditched the town, and moved into an RV.
They traveled around for almost three years, then they moved back to Tucson. From what I’ve been able to learn, their investments went ker-flooey last fall (so much for trusting the stock market), and they decided that now was a great time to buy a house. (Yeah, sure it is.) And that’s what they recently did.
Ooo! Coffeehouse and restaurant conversations! I just LOVE to overhear them.
Some might remember my comments about Panera back in 2006 when the weekly “Opportunity Associates” would meet in the meeting room and the couch area was filled with flip-flopped 25 year old realtards talking about getting rich and driving off in their BMWs.
I’ve been to Panera once this year, and that was enough for a while.
Good morning everyone!
It’s 112 deg here, about 120 on the pavement. Sand storms and dust everywhere..
God I love the army!
BTW…..
Been watching our nightly scropion wolfspider fights…I have yet to see a scorpion win…
Where abouts in A-stan are you? I spent 18 months in the town with the most rustic mountain charm, Gardez.
Now I am over in Baghdad, it’s amazing, Camp Victory is like Club Med compared to Afghanistan.
Camp Victory???????????????
Shoot, you might as well be in the states! LOL….
Only playing…
I am in the lovely mountainside resort known as Kandahar Airbase….
Can’t you smell the poop pond?
Morning Stpn, Your posts reminds me how much
we owe you guys. Thanks for your service.
I’ll pop a cold one this afternoon raised high in
honor of all you guys serving our country.
Make it a bud lite…
My guts gettin too big
A Fat Tire for me, great beer.
And here’s a virtual Nimbus Old Moneyshine from me!
Kandahar! I almost joined you. We lost a bid on the runway job that was just let a little while back. The foolish contractor left 20MM on the table……Good luck to them, they will need it!
Take care out there and be safe!
20mm is nothing. What was the % difference between low and next low bidder?
+/- 18% on a firm fixed job is a lot. Especially considering you are mobilizing to Afghanistan and have to figure out the logistics of getting material out there.
One of my sons, Army Staff Seargent, just joined you.
Tell him to come to the flightline, I may just see him. I will be the officer mumbling about low interest rates and the housing bubble…
“I will be the officer mumbling about low interest rates and the housing bubble…”
That reminds me, if any of you ever find yourself on Boca Ciega Bay, just look for the guy paddling in circles on a yellow sea kayak. I too will be mumbling about low interest rates and the housing bubble.
Hey, I have a yellow kayak! I painted it to look like a giant banana. It’s simply radiant.
Does yours look like a giant banana as well?
Well, why not? Go get some paint, man! Let the littleman help. I bet he’s a great painter.
‘Hey, I have a yellow kayak! I painted it to look like a giant banana.”
mikey makes mental note of this and continues to fed his rogue Orca pod raw meat while chanting, “Umm mmm good…giant banana’s good too!”, while quietly plotting his revenge.
My son is heading to Iraq next Month - supposed to be one of the “last ones out” next year!!
Stay safe!
LOL, yea, “last one’s out”…
We will just be in localized FOB’s for many years to come. We wont be patroling the cities like we have been, that will be the Iraqi army’s job. But we will still need to be there in case they need us.
Obama has dems and liberals thinking we are going to do a full pullout…that’s a load of crap. Think the arraingment we have with Korea. We will still have some large bases there, we just cant up and leave…
“We will still have some large bases there, we just cant up and leave”
Yeah…that was the same thing my Colonel and all the AP’s and MP’s told me when I snuck down to Bien Hoa AFB and tried to borrow one stinking little C-130’s and tried to go home !!
Nope, Stpn, that myth has been dispelled by rampant msm.
Unless ppl are ignoring the news, we all know that the US is staying..under different names/naming.
Good luck.
Bless you Stepn. I don’t know how you do it.
Stepn, until I noticed your screen name and other identity hints, your temperature report made me think you were just reporting from Phoenix.
LOL,
No not in the U.S. right now…wish I were there…..still got about a year to go before I can report from good ole FT. Bragg…
FOR GOD’S SAKE OBAMA, HELP ME!!!!
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/07/news/economy/Obama_mortgage_plan/index.htm?cnn=yes
Anyone think this “help” is forthcoming?
“Anyone think this “help” is forthcoming?”
The government might just as well launch a trillion dollar program to “slow down time” and keep people at their current age for the next ten years or more.
I’m sure there are millions of Americans who would agree that to stay at the age you like is a “basic human right” and that Obama should make it happen.
Maybe Janine Garofolo could be appointed the new “Time Czar”. The NY Times and Daily Kos wholeheartedly approve. Oh please Mr Obama save us from the ravages of time. A trillion dollars is nothing compared to the evil Bush.
“Officials don’t expect problems to be fixed until the fall”.
LOL! These “Officials” couldn’t find their azz with both hands, didn’t see it coming and will now “fix” it, and many poor fools believe their B.S.
“Borrowers are frustrated that their paperwork is being lost, and calls are not returned. Administration officials are racing to roll out new features to improve the program.”
Seems they’re unable to handle the current load. What’s going to happen when the coming avalanche of mortgage resets kick into high gear?
I have a friend that needs a modification. He applied three months ago and still hasn’t heard anything. Long story short- he’s a serial refinancer and has a 15 year fixed rate. All he needs from wamu/chase is a mod into a thirty fixed. His OT was cut and can’t make the payments. Seems simple enough, not for the bank, they turned him down. It makes no sense to me.
Um, if he was a serial refinancer and his house is worth less than his loan amount, it’s his fault entirely that he can’t refinance.
Who said his house is worth less than the loan? If he does a regular refinance, w/closing costs, he wouldn’t be able to put those costs onto the loan, because of LTV. He lives paycheck to paycheck, even with OT. OK, bottom line is Chase wants him to somehow come up with the fees and closing costs when he doesn’t have it. So far, they are not accepting the gov’t $1,500 to do the modification. My point is, the house has just enough equity, and all he needs to make payments is a 30 yr fixed (modified from a 15 yr with 14 years to go)) It seems simple to me and they won’t even do that. What happens to the loans that are underwater? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t feel sorry for him, I brought it up to show the absurdity of this gov’t program.
Why shouldn’t he come up with the closing costs? I fail to see how his predicament should be the government’s business at all. It sounds like his problem is his living paycheck to paycheck when he had a huge liability with no assets to offset it. If you feel so bad for him, why aren’t you loaning him the cash to pay the fees? Why must the taxpayers cover his butt?
I have no sympathy for anybody trying to use this program, not just your friend, kirisdad.
Did you read my post! I don’t have any sympathy for him. I wouldn’t lose any sleep if he lost his house, OK? feel better. My point, is if the banks won’t do a simple 15-30 yr. modification on a house that is not underwater for someone employed in the same job for 21 years, in what circumstance will they modify? and the whole program is a sham.
Sorry Kirisdad…
I thought you were annoyed that the plan wouldn’t refinance him and that was why the plan was a sham. My bad!
Chase sucks…They are varmints…The mod program is a scam to help the banks…The only way they will mod., is if (after a full rectal exam) they are convinced they will lose more through a short sale or foreclosure…If you have any assets and you refinanced your loan and now have recourse through deficiency judgement its a “zero” chance for a mod.
Now that is an interesting point - if you have a job and/or assets, the bank that had some incentive to modify for you the first time (because you could walk away from the non-recourse loan) has zero incentive to do the second modification because you are now in a recourse loan. So it is a serious “one bite of the apple” situation.
I hadn’t thought about it that way. Thanks.
Actually I have made multiple mods for the same client. It’s about the fourth request that gets me bored and annoyed and saying No. Of course, the mods I make don’t involve forgiving any principal or lower any interest rate…just stretch out the term a bit, or give them more money and RAiSE the payment.
The mod program is a scam to help the banks…The only way they will mod., is if (after a full rectal exam) they are convinced they will lose more through a short sale or foreclosure…
That’s what was hidden in the Trojan Horse of this homeowner “aid” program.
Tanya in Jacksonville, Fla., wrote in the Talkback that she has contacted her servicer 27 times since applying for a loan modification in April, faxed all the documents six times and is still not getting help. “So still I wait. Still I have no assistace[sic] in my loan!”
Hey Tanya, do you know Peggy Joseph?
Here is some help for homeowners.
A mortgage is a very common type of debt instrument, used by many individuals to purchase housing. In this arrangement, the money is used to purchase the property. The bank, however, is given the title to the house until the mortgage is paid off in full. If the borrower defaults on the loan, the bank can reposess the house and sell it, to get their money back.
“So still I wait.”
Well, somebody’s going to have to pay for it. Of course the responsible savers will be presented with the bill. Some of us will pay a painful amount, but it certainly does not have to be that way. That is the choice and responsibility of each responsible saver. The way to throw a money wrench into the the system is simply take a voluntary “pay cut,” like I seem to have done. LOL. Yup! Drastically reducing your visible income is one way to fight back. We have a good arsenal of weapons to reduce our visible income. The wealthiest people use these weapons, and I admire them for it.
For the average person:
1. Cut your AGI
2. Buy stocks periodically and do not sell any for several years (except for losses).
3. Buy gold and hold. Buy periodically.
4. Buy US Series I savings bonds. Not taxable for up to 30 years.
5. Contribute to the max in your 401k (part of #1).
For self employed people, they can contribute over $40,000 to a SEP IRA and it’s all deductible. So are business expenses such as travel, lodging, dining, and so on.
I am for abolishing the income tax, all capital gains taxes and all dividend interest taxes, and I’m against establishing a flat tax because it’s still an income tax. I am in favor of tariffs and national lotteries to fund defense, justice, and administrative costs of government.
“money wrench!” Ok, more coffee. But I think the phrase still fits.
bill in Los Angeles,
No doubt! Sound advice, but I hope you realize, those are exactly the “moves” most of us have been living by for years..!
Frankly, I think I’ve -been- patient. As a matter of fact, most of us here have -been- patient longer than can be reasonably expected. I wait until the 4th qtr. to make my SEP contribution and at the rate we’re bailing everyone ELSE out, I have to c-o-n-t-i-n-u-e to make lifestyle sacrifices in order to reduce AGI.
I’m SICK of it. It’s boring. By the time the coast is clear, we’ll all be too old to spend it on anything ‘other’ than freaking healthcare. Gee, great.
To reprise a great comment from yesterday:
“Got boxes?”
Bill in Carolina,
I’m totally sure I don’t know where you’re coming from w/ ‘that’ one?
It’s pretty simple. Over the last decade the list of “Things I Did Without” would be thicker than a Hong Kong phone directory.
Recently I’ve made -additional- sacrifices so I won’t have to pay for medical insurance during retirement. I bought Term Life Insurance and invested the difference. I WALK to work. I don’t have any corners left TO cut!
Unless you’re inferring I -leave- the country, in which case I’m totally open to that.
“Got Boxes?”
You beat me to it
By the time I get up, all of my favorite responses have been spoken.
“Unless you’re inferring I -leave- the country, in which case I’m totally open to that.”
You mention spending your hardearned savings on healthcare. In the future, leaving the country for this reason might not be so radical an idea.
patient renter,
I’ll have my healthcare thru TriCare ( ret. military/civil svc. plan ) and will have access to “Space A” military airlift command flights. So I guess it wouldn’t be much of a problem unless you develop a sudden and acute illness.
Obviously we’d get ’some’ form of insurance in whatever country it is we’re hanging out in. Likely the Philippines. Hopefully we’ll have some sort of regular flight out of there by the time I fully retire. And by that I mean the wife. I’ll always work.
DinOR, the comment was a response to poor little Tanya, complaining she couldn’t get a modification.
Bill,
I hadn’t been following that thread so it explains why I didn’t get it? Anyway, my comments were germane to tax planning not FB’ing.
The point is, for az_lender, Arizona Slim and a lot of other SE people here, there’s just so much “bunching” you can do w/ a return. If you have no inventory and are basically just a services company, there’s not a lot to write off?
I’ve even gone so far as to actually limit my income on the front-end! I know sounds crazy but going into 2006 etc. what was the point? Fluff up your income so… you could qualify for the biggest loan the lenders would “give” you!? ( That was part of being on the sidelines too! )
Drastically reducing your visible income is one sure way to get yourself audited.
yensoy,
Well… you’re right! I was talking to a CPA years ago and he said even if you’re a Sched. C filer, you have to be sensible about it?
I said, give me an example. Well, when a guy claims he only has $11,000 in AGI and his mortgage ( off of… Sched. A ) says he pays $12,000 a year in PITI, uh… BUSTED!
But I would implore you to consider, we’re ALL targets! Just b/c you’ve never said a cuss word or smoked doesn’t mean you won’t get audited! Just b/c you’ve under declared for years doesn’t mean you’re racking up “brownie points”.
I imagine there will be quite a few tax returns with very little income relative to housing expenditures with all the job losses. Certainly the IRS is adjusting its expectations now?
Auditors? Bring them on! I have nothing hidden and nothing to hide because I do it by their rules and I have my job shop’s accounting to back me up. The shop will take a hit before I take a hit, in case you were wondering.
bill in Los Angeles,
Precisely. If I get a notice, I’m not spending a -minute- preparing endlessly for it. Just tell me specifically what your beef is and we’ll address it.
I’m not taking a month off to get everything “inspection ready”. If it happens, it happens. Should I lay awake nights worrying I’ll develop heart disease too?
Unfortunately for me I’m actually a 1099 sub-contractor so I can’t thumb my nose ( in flagrant fashion ) anyway.
Jose you are a quality analyst, you didn`t put 20% down because you have private mortgage insurance, you struggle to meet all your credit obligations but you can make your payments. If you get a penny it`s too much. You shot it Tarzan, MAKE YOUR PAYMENTS!
Jose Rivera, Manchester, Conn. - Frustrated
Rivera applied in April to refinance his $352,000 mortgage, hoping to lower his 7% interest rate and save $600 a month. Though he can make his payments, he received no raise and only 20% of his usual bonus from a financial services company, where he works as a quality analyst. He could use a break on his monthly payments on the loan originally made by Countrywide.
“It’s a struggle in today’s economy to meet all my credit obligations,” said Rivera, who is married with a 19-year-old son. “It would allow me to have a little more breathing room.”
Rivera hit roadblocks from the start. He never received a call back from the first customer service agent at Bank of America, which bought Countrywide, despite leaving three messages. In May, he requested a different agent and was told because he has private mortgage insurance, he couldn’t apply until the end of May. He called back in early June and was told to try again at the end of July. Now that interest rates are rising, he’s concerned it won’t be worth it to refinance.
“This process has been extremely frustrating, with a lack of returned calls from BofA, and me having to contact different loan officers,” said Rivera, 48. “As a taxpayer whose taxes have been used to assist these large financial institutions, it is extremely frustrating, disappointing and discouraging to receive such a lack of assistance and poor customer service from these banks.”
So he thought his payment was fine when he started out his 7% mortgage, and now he whines? Sure, his salary is the same and he got no bonus, but every “bonus” job I ever had told me not to count on that bonus every year.
“He could use a break…”
He could use a break in his leg if he doesn’t keep paying that loan off. I wonder what “all my credit obligations” means? Credit card to pay for all those nice furnishings, monthly luxury car payment…
And what’s with the 19-year-old son? Why is he around? Hey, wait, get HIS lazy duff out there to work and contribute to the monthly mortgage payment. Or maybe he’s a whiner like his daddy.
NoVa,
That about sums it up!
Saw a condo listed in Monterey, CA that was around 2000 sq.ft. There were two in the same building, one for $595K and the other for $775K. One had been listed for over 400 days. I asked a RE friend to tell me more about it; she called back laughing, the HOA’s were $675/month. I may be wrong but I’d estimate that would be about $130K worth of mortgage payment. People here still don’t get it, they keep saying ‘it’s the life style’ you’re paying for. I rent in Salinas and can get a monthly bus pass for $75 to take me over there every day of the month, I don’t have to fight for a parking space, and can enjoy everything they have to offer. I see no life style other then servicing debt and trying to maintain a address label that no one cares about.
Are you familliar with pacific grove?I’v e been hanging out there a little lately.Pretty nice place.
I love PG. People there are quite friendly. I usually go over on a Sat or Sun morning, buy a cup of java and walk along the ocean from PG to Monterey or Seaside and back. This weekend I have to pass but I’ll be back over next weekend. If you like donuts try RED’s in Monterey or in Seaside, great donuts. You can even throw the dice for you coffee and donuts, double or nothing.
For me I will take SLO over Monterey…Monterey is just to busy for me although the shoreline and trees in Monterey is more stunning than SLO…
SLO is more slow moving and has quick access to the ocean should one want seafood or to visit. Having said that I have recently look for a place to move when my wife retires next year and I like Templeton. Nice lots with trees (1 acre), close to 46 if I want to go east, 120 miles from Monterey, Carmel, 30 miles from Cambria or SLO. In the heart of wine country.
I like Templeton also Sron…Just a wee to hot for me though…
Hey Salinasron, I’m vacationing in Monterey. It sure is dead here compared to the last few years. Tons of vacant commercial real estate, hardly anyone walking cannery row, and last night at the mall I had to take a picture because I didn’t see anyone down the walkway.
If you’re in town treat yourself to a meal at the Monterey Fish House (reservations usually needed at night): crab raviolis!!!
In Carmel get a great reasonable lunch or dinner at Tommy’s Wok.
Even more RE commercial vacant in Carmel.
Monterey is nothing but old people. OLD PEOPLE!
Big V,
Has combo decided not to post anymore? I was in London from the 5th-19 of June.
Welcome back. How was London? I’ve seen combo posting.
I wasn’t gonna post this, until I saw your comment, but here it is: just the most cursory observation from PG: it feels old an tired. And one does not have to look hard, or very far, to see poverty, esp. poor old people.
Monterey Wharf restaurants are doing terribly this year. Was told, last year they were saved by Europeans. This year, not so much.
Employees of a Las Vegas convention hotel bracing for third round of lay off’s.
Evidently, the reason the FBI is so involved with the Goldman software theft is that:
He added that because of the way this software interfaces with the various markets and exchanges, the bank has warned it could be used to “manipulate markets in unfair ways.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/code-theft-could-cost-goldman-millions-us-says/article1209348/
Of course, we all know that Goldman would never have used this software for evil!
aka never used it for profit.
Um, yeah…. Tell me again why Goldman would be in possession of software that was designed to manipulate markets? Hmm…
CountDown To Goldman Sachs Earnings - 6 Days.
This one should be a doozie. I’m sure the smoke and mirrors they pull out this time around will still be in MBA textbooks fifty years from now.
Sorry for being off topic but I really wanted to share a personal victory:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/business/08aig.html?_r=1&ref=business
Jury Decides for Greenberg in A.I.G. Case Over Shares
The moment of this jury decision made all the hard work of last 6 months worth it.
Do you mind if I ask– how this is a personal victory for you? Are you Hank Greenberg or David Boies or an assistant?
I’m one of the attorneys working on the case.
Congrats
“A federal jury ruled on Tuesday that Maurice R. Greenberg, the former chief executive of the American International Group, did not wrongly seize $4.3 billion in company stock.”
Hope you got paid well…
Stepn, you paying attention? Take that LSAT!
Try and find a lawyer who’s just an ambulance chaser plaintiff type lawyer, and find one who’s a corporate lawyer, and then perhaps a lawyer working for state or federal government. Talking to these three or four (at least understanding their experience) will give you an idea of what’s involved with lawyering.
From everything I’ve seen, working in the law at a large firm is a complete grind. It’s a 24/7 job at the top firms. They are rewarded quite handsomely, but the term “Golden Handcuffs” is very real.
If you’re doing networking for the Army, you could easily hook up with a government contractor, once you’re out. You might have to go downrange every so often to support the Army, once you’re out and stateside. I assume you’ve got a security clearance right now. That’s a definite bonus. A Top Secret clearance is thick money.
OH YEA!!!
And what do you believe? Did he rightfully or wrongfully seize these billions? Because I believe he did so wrongfully, but who am I, and what do I know.
I think we were lucky to have a very intelligent jury who took its job seriously. I also think, and not just thinking as an advocate, but really believing, that there was not a single piece of evidence supporting AIG’s claim. So I think the jury looked through the complexity of the case, and reached the right decision.
Good for you, NJ! Please drink a lovely cabernet in your honor tonight–and do a little dance in front of the bathroom mirror before you go to bed.
(Cyber-pat on the back.)
DennisN,
It’s a ways out ( late Sept. ) but I’ll be in Boise at Gowen Field. Probably fly over so likely I won’t have any wheels. Sure could use a designated driver? TIA,
DinOR
Do you have an email you can post?
Watch out for the ANG jocks - they tend to depart Gowan field two abreast in their A-10s.
DennisN,
I think we should be able to make arrangements thru Ben so you can have my email and phone number etc. The unit said you -have- to fulfill your Annual Training Req. before the end of the FY. So I said fine, make it the the 15th thru the 30th of Sept!
But there’s method to my madness. The Sqdn. will only be there thru Nov. and then come back to K’ Falls for keeps. Those guys won’t be back. But it’s a window for me to look at other PNW cities and see first hand what they’re like on the fringes of Summer! If I could figure out a way to get a full 4-5 months of summer ( without having to go all the way to Cabo ) I’d be a happy camper!
DinOR….I want a ride
scdave,
Oh I won’t be going over in one of the F-15’s. Try the back of a C-130 along with fuel tanks, spare parts and tool boxes.
I am told though that everyone gets (1) flight but I’d likely extend that to my son-in-law as he’s actually young enough to appreciate it?
DinOR, bring your own hearing protection in case the crew doesn’t have any for you. I caught a 2-hour ride in a C-130 in Vietnam lo these many years ago. It was rigged for cargo so it was wide open inside. There was a constantly screaming compressor somewhere in there that was truly painfully loud. When I got off the plane I couldn’t hear properly for the rest of the afternoon and evening.
What?
I was in Wichita when the Turkish Air Force flew in a bunch of Generals/procurement types to look over the Cessna JPATS prototypes.
All the way from Turkey…….in the back of a TAF C-130.
All the ex-Vietnam-era USAF types in the immediate vicinity said their heads hurt just thinking about it.
Bill,
FWIW, “I” hear you! Yeah more likely the Inverter ( not a compressor ) And yes, they’re a real PITA. Even if they’re sitting on the ground.
The APU ( Aux. Power Unit ) will make you pretty annoyed too.
Dang…Only a C-130 eh….Well, I know its not very fast so that’s a bummer but can we jump out at night in a parachute or something exciting like that
DinOR,
I’m confused. You were active duty in the USN and are now in the AF Reserves?
Yeah I’ve seen those TDY F-15’s a lot this summer. IIRC they are repaving the runway at their home base in OR so they had to TDY out of Gowan for the summer.
DennisN,
No, you have it right. As a matter of fact the ex-Navy guys out number actual AF guys like 3 to 1, at least at our base. There’s only a few guys in my shop that -aren’t- ex-Navy.
Yeah, they all ‘think’ they’ll be back there before T-Day, but I’m not seeing it. When I was there in June, 2 mos. into it, they hadn’t even started yet. I’ll know more after this weekend though!
Where the heck is your billet? I sure haven’t seen any BEQ or BOQ around the airport. Hope you don’t stay in one of those cheezy hotels down by the airport.
Lots of military down at the airport. There’s the Air Nat. Guard and their A-10s plus an Army Reserve with all their armour. They take that armour about 12 miles south of the airport onto BLM land and play shoot-em-up.
Interesting aside here in Salinas: Husband and wife make just over $100K combined salary. Good jobs, won’t loose in this economy. Their mortgage was $390K and they went in for a loan modification a month or two ago. Their modification reduced the principle loan to $360K and they were a happy couple. Fast forward to today and they are not happy even though they can afford the new payment, why, because the same homes are now selling in the $150K range and they feel that that’s where they should get a reduction to.
Time to walk away! Now we just might see some true affordable housing that’s not artificially propped up by the local government.
same homes are now selling in the $150K range ??
A friend of mine bought a piece of dirt approved for 6 houses in seaside a couple of years ago…He told me that the prices have fallen so far that even if he got the land for free that the cost to build the house would exceed what he could sell it for…
I’m really looking forward to small acreage flooding the market for next to nothing.
Some ppl are never happy. How old are they?
In their late 40’s and spend everything.
So, in a generalized, macro sort of way, can we say the mendacious “green shoots” are dying out? The news (and Dow) is tilting back toward reality, it seems, over the past few days. But plenty of sellers around NYC still hoping to “rent it out for a year or two till the (insanity) returns.” A surge of that going on in Forest Hills, at least, from checking craigslist lately.
I tried posting a link about the “wait it out” phenomenon last week.
It’s on the Business Insider site, an article by Henry Blodgett dated June 30, 2009. Describes how McMansion owners are going to sit out this slow market til it comes roaring back next year.
Did you see the posts upthread about the surge in 1 BR apt. vacancy? Why wouldn’t three or four buds get together to rent a (relatively) posh abode, and live more cheaply while they’re at it?
Unintended consequence of the wait-it-outers is providing an additional option for renters, which necessarily will drive down rents in the traditional rental market.
Property value drop likely into 2011
By JEFF OSTROWSKI
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 08, 2009
Mortgage insurer PMI Group said Tuesday there’s a 99.9 percent chance that property values in Palm Beach County and the Treasure Coast will fall further by the first quarter of 2011.
PMI says three dozen metro areas have a 99.9 percent chance of falling prices. Those areas include nearly all of Florida and huge swaths of California and Arizona.
Local obs:
The homeless population has suddenly exploded in my hood. Granted, up here it always has a seasonal increase, but I’m seeing stuff I haven’t seen any summer before this. Lots of white, middle-aged, homeless - often wandering in groups of two and three - a sign that they are new to their predictament. Dudes passed out on the grass at all hours, not just early morning/evening. Heavier furntiture than ever scavanged from dumpsters - usually it’s just bedrolls - now I’m seeing easy chairs and such.
I’m sure glad I don’t own a car they can break into. But, I think my informal experiment in urban houseownership will be ending sooner than later. The media can report what it wants but I go by what I see firsthand. I’m not really comfortable owning anything that’s not portable right now.
The homeless population has suddenly exploded in my hood. Granted, up here it always has a seasonal increase, but I’m seeing stuff I haven’t seen any summer before this.
I haven’t seen it in my ‘hood — but the city completed the skate park at the Logan and Western overpass this spring, and I’m convinced that one reason was to make that area unpalatable to homeless people. It was previously a popular place for them to encamp. Regardless, the skate park is a great use of dead space, and it’s well-used.
But, I think my informal experiment in urban houseownership will be ending sooner than later.
Gettin’ out, eh?
Yeah, I had enough and all this hindsight is killing me. I’ll probably stay in the city for a while, but as a renter.
I love skate parks, oh, yes I do. Why? Well, because of that, ahem, unpalatable reason that ET-Chicago just stated.
I also like watching good skaters. Really good skaters even more.
edgewaterjohn,
What’s the sentiment towards the homeless in Chicago? Here in Portland, our local blog featured pictures of homeless people taking a dump in the bushes in front of “upscale” condoze and people having to step over a guy passed out in a puddle of his own urine in front of the door of another.
Not good.
What’s the sentiment towards the homeless in Chicago?
When I’ve been on the Left Coast, I’ve been mildly surprised by how much more visible the homeless are, and how much more aggressive their panhandling tactics are. I think both the cops and the general public here are less willing to tolerate an “obtrusive” homeless population (for better or worse).
We don’t see too many homeless types here in Boise. Those few inches of snow in the winter scare them away. Plus there’s the rumor going around that the Boise cops chain them up and take them down to the range for target practice.
Missoula is a mecca for the homeless and mentally ill because of all the services here. Then the nonprofits & govt agencies claim we need more money for services because of all the homeless and mentally ill people.
I’ve noticed the same thing in just about every state capital i’ve ever been in…….full of people (non-profits, lobbying groups, “support groups”, etc.) who make bank off the government in some fashion or other. All of them having a standby list of protestors who can show up down at the courthouse at a moment’s notice.
The New Minutemen.
As ET indicates, it’s pretty much still on the down low here. What’s most distrubing in my recent observations is how many seem new to the game. They don’t exhibit the deft and savviness of the longtime homeless. This new crop appears visibly lost and disturbed. Chances are, given time the issue will become much more visible and contoversial than it has been (relatively speaking of course).
I am now seeing beggars on the busier corners of Sammamish, Washington. Sammamish is an affluent bedroom community immediately to the east of Redmond (home of Microsoft).
I’ve lived here for 12 years and this is the first time I’ve seen such a sight.
Same here. Lots of middle aged dudes and gals cruising together on bicycles and dumpster diving. Lots of diving around malls for stuff that I assume they can use or sell. Never, ever seen it this bad.
I was in school in Dallas a year ago, or thereabouts.
Saw a guy witha “Need Job’ sign on a busy corner during the evening rush. Was a Wally Cox-looking accounting type in his late 40s-early 50s. You could tell that the guy had probably never been out of a job in his life.
Mind, this was in Dallas, where the economy is supposedly doing great compared to the rest of the country.
The town of Grand Junction, Colorado, just put up signs at the freeway exits telling people not to help panhandlers.
And over the hill on the Eastern slope, it is strange to see road work, with a huge sign: “Paid for by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act”. It feels a bit - depression era like.
I started noticing last year a lot of female beggars in the SF Bay Area. What, dudes don’t have money for prostitutes anymore? Must be bad.
Since green shoots and food stamps don`t seem to be working, maybe they should bring back Green Stamps.
S&H Green Stamps
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An S&H Green Stamp’S&H Green Stamps’ (also called Green Shield Stamps) were a form of trading stamps popular in the United States between the 1930s and late 1980s. They formed a rewards program operated by the Sperry and Hutchinson company (S&H), founded in 1896 by Thomas Sperry and Shelly Hutchinson. During the 1960s, the rewards catalog printed by the company was the largest publication in the United States and the company issued three times as many stamps as the U.S. Postal Service.[1] Customers would receive stamps at the checkout counter of supermarkets, department stores, and gas stations among other retailers, which could be redeemed for products in the catalog.
I remember them well. Loved going to the redemption store with my mom. Was taught at an early age to make sure I got my Green Stamps when I was sent to the store.
Detroit area demolition permits exceed new home construction permits in 2008.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090708/METRO/907080347/Demolitions-outpace-new-home-building
I feel like we are in these super massive downward cycles.
Republicans get in government and run big deficits, over spend and take away some of the useful regulatory functions.
Things turn to poop.
Democrats get in spend like maniac housewives with a credit card with 300K limit. All sorts of stuff you just don’t want or need. Pile taxes on to productive enterprise.
Things turn to steaming poop.
War comes along and eliminates a lot of the problems. Inefficient people and unemployed losers get feed into the meat grinder. Government guys that are ineffective get killed off. Massive changes in resource allocation kill off some of the bureaucracy.
Seems like this is the third or fourth of these cycles. Looking back to the Panic in the early 1900s that led to creation of the Fed. Ended up with WW1. Then roaring 20s ending with WW2. So, that one was kinda bad, now we are heading for WW3.
Everyone seems to contribute to this cycle. Both parties. Figuring the “peace wing” of the democrats will undercut military spending to set the stage for WW3. Obama and his “diplomacy” will also screw thins up. Basically dealing with the russian dictatorship like it is a legitimate government and other fun guys like China and Iran. Its like watching appeasement of gangs in NY with Dinkins.
For the record, Putin isn’t really a big problem. Who follows Putin might be a big problem. Dictatorships can be effective and efficient however the problem is they don’t endure when the leader dies. Same thing with the nut case in Iran.
I’d also say that nothing really bad “has” to happen. We have debt problems that can be solved in bankruptcy court. The Federal deficit is bad but it is dwarfed by private debt. As that debt burns away things will self correct. Again, I think the key to solving the current crisis is turning away from fixing housing and focus on the job situation. Let over leveraged banks and over leveraged companies default and die. If your a personally in over your head, take the default and move on.
I haven’t seen anything that says we can’t provide healthcare for everyone. What the best solution for that is I don’t know. I doesn’t seem that we have a problem providing housing for everyone either. There doesn’t seem to be a problem providing food, see my rather expanded waistline. There is also plenty of junk and toys around. While their are pricing problems and debt problems, the actual ability to provide for ourselves is just fine. And I don’t buy any BS that says our lifestyle has to get worse. There isn’t any evidence or that. We have abundance. There are always periods of over production and underproduction and employment shortages and excess. Wealth concentration is a problem but again is a product of debt, aka all those assets are debt contract.
The trap I see here is people trying to fix things leading to worse consequences.
War comes along and eliminates a lot of the problems. Inefficient people and unemployed losers get feed into the meat grinder.
That is pretty offensive.
Why?
Why? Because it plays heavily on the Hollywood fabrication of ‘Nam vet-as-drug addict stereotype. If you could see how much these young G.I’s have their stuff together and how dedicated they are you’d realize that’s grossly offensive.
James did not say that the military was inefficent and filled with unemployed losers. I didn’t take his statement to mean that at all. If that’s what he meant, I wholeheartedly disagree with him.
Perhaps he was being sarcastic.
If he wasn’t being sarcastic, he’s still not entirely wrong in saying that the military is inefficient. That’s not to say it’s the enlisted’s fault, but rather the politicians’ fault.
One of the major problems with our country as I see it is that we’re not willing to kill our enemies. Since the 1950s, it’s not been a question of how many of our own soldiers we lose - rather, we’ve our panties in a wad as to how many of our enemy we’re willing to exterminate.
If we weren’t so stupid and palsy-walsy, we would have been out of Afghanistan 2-3 years ago, victory in hand. Instead, our soldiers continue to get shot at because we’re too politically correct.
I hope this changes soon, or else the next war will be on our home turf. With Chavez salivating over the prospect of overrunning Central America, and Obama more than willing to turn a blind eye, who’s to say that the next World War won’t start in California?
One of the major problems with our country as I see it is that we’re not willing to kill our enemies.
+1 million
Take it from someone who is a pawn in THAT game…
Which is why 85% of the military is aligned conservative..
“One of the major problems with our country as I see it is that we’re not willing to kill our enemies.”
One of the major problems with our country as I see it is that we keep invading countries for no discernible reason. Since WWII what have all of our invasions accomplished for the American people? My answer: Nothing. Zero. Nada.
as I see it is that we’re not willing to kill our enemies ??
I am with Eudemon & Jon on this one…No more limited wars !!
Jon,
OT but w/ McNamara’s recent passing I recalled a friend that’s a real student of the VN War and he said the proper approach would have been to build up a police presence at the DMZ and simply stay there, not unlike Korea ( rather than engage in what he called “whack a mole” tactics we employed.
Since WWII what have all of our invasions accomplished for the American people? My answer: Nothing. Zero. Nada.
Since 9/11 we haven’t been attacked once. That to me would seem to be quite an accomplishment.
Just being devil’s advocate here - FWIW I think there’s a lot we’re doing wrong, and certainly did in previous wars - but there’s a lot that we’re doing right too. If you deny that, you’re blind.
Since 9/11 we haven’t been attacked once. That to me would seem to be quite an accomplishment.
True, but how do you quantify whether that’s down to what we’ve done, or depsite what we’ve done….
“Since 9/11 we haven’t been attacked once.”
That we haven’t been attacked again is fine, but don’t conflate the fact that the attack against us was a criminal act carried out by a handful of thugs, not an act of war. Given our response, you’d think the whole of the Red Army had landed on our soil.
I disagree with your premise. It was an act of war.
“a handful of thugs”
Well then they have to be about the -dumbest- bunch of “thugs” in human history? And… what was your “getaway” plan?
Now the clowns down in the So. Philippines, yeah you can call them thugs. But to say either group operates independently or entirely without a support mechanism is just oblivious.
the attack against us was a criminal act carried out by a handful of thugs,
“Handful of thugs” is a huge misstatement. They had a very large network of financial and logistical support. (Which incidentally includes support originally from the U.S. in the 1980’s; a giant statement about the wrongness of attempting war-by-proxy)
not an act of war.
Given the scale and the repetitiveness of the attacks (including 1993 etc.) - I don’t see how anyone could possibly say that. Yeah it wasn’t committed by an official government entity - but that doesn’t make it any less of an act of war.
Given our response, you’d think the whole of the Red Army had landed on our soil.
Agree, thus my statement of us doing a lot wrong - e.g. including going after Iraq, and not going into the Pakistani tribal territories after the Taliban are the two biggest mistakes IMO. Our response should have been more specifically targeted at Bin Laden and his supporting cast, not generalized to include Iraq and Afghanistan.
Anyhow - we’re getting off on a big-time tangent here - a discussion that’s been had many times in many contexts.
I disagree with your premise. It was an act of war.
They wish you to believe it was an act of war, much like Timothy McViegh and Eric Rudolf. It makes the act more noble.
As for being in/out of Afghanistan in 3/4 years, I have never heard the suggested battle plans that would allow this. The Soviets spent 10 long years and lost many men before they admitted it couldn’t be done. The plan now seems to make the Taliban our allies and have them assist us in…actually, I have not heard the latest theory on why we are in Afghanistan anymore. Nation building? Bringing democracy to the region? Finding Bin Ladin? Stopping the drug trade?
” have never heard the suggested battle plans that would allow this.”
Of course you haven’t. The battle plans that would allow it are politically incorrect.
And that’s the problem. It’s why you haven’t heard of the plans that WOULD work. It’s not because those plans wouldn’t be successful militarily.
By the way, Skip, who is “they”? Are they same people who want you to believe that the terrorists who leveled the World Trade Center and blew a hole in the Pentagon were simply a roving band of thugs?
I used to be amazed how the politically polarized are so easily manipulated. No longer.
So many conspiracy theories. So little time.
“…..it couldn’t be done.”
Everyone forgets that the Russians were holding their own/winning in Afghanistan, until we started sending in the Stingers, which made it a lot harder for the helicopters and close air support aircraft tp operate.
But for what it’s worth, (IMO) we would have been a lot better (and influenced/scared more people), by investing a tenth of the time/money lives spent in Iraq, and making sure we rapidly brought Osama Bin Laden’s head back on the end of a long stick.
We have been attacked over & over since 9/11. It is just happening to our soldiers instead of people in buildings. Why go through all of the logistical issues of killing us over here when they can kill us over there, remotely with car bombs none the less?
I would much prefer to put our soldiers on our borders.
And I also recognize the incredible sacrifices of our men & women in uniform, throughout all of the “wars”.
“They had a very large network of financial and logistical support.”
“but that doesn’t make it any less of an act of war.”
Actually it does. Having an extensive support network doesn’t make you any less a criminal.
War can only be waged by nations. For the way in which war exposes people to such great social and economic liabilities, it must be reserved for this. The only way to justify our overreaching response to this criminal act was to declare it an act of war.
Changing perspectives: If the 9/11 criminals had only succeeded in killing 10 people instead of several thousand, would it be an act of war? The act would have been the same, only the outcome would be different. Imagine if every criminal or “terrorist” act resulted in the invasion and occupation of a nation. Ridiculous, no?
I vehemently disagree. And yes indeed if only 10 people were killed it still would have been an act of war. You can’t ignore the nature of the attacks. They were extensively planned, organized, and coordinated by an extensive organization, and they were a virtual repeat of an earlier attack. They were targeted specifically at the United States, not at some particular faction. They were condoned by the supporting/overarching Taliban organization, which was the government of Afghanistan. Thus we had every right to declare war against al Qaeda and against the Taliban - the government of Afghanistan at the time.
Trying to compare them to Oklahoma City for instance is complete night and day. OC was planned by just a couple of rogue people, not a huge organization that was condoned by and protected by a nation’s government.
To turn your point around - what if the attack had been an ICBM that happened to be a dud, and only killed 10 people upon impact? Would that have been an act of war? Yes it very much would have. It’s no different.
(specifically referring to a nuclear ICBM)
Hm. A couple offensive statements in that one. Maniac housewives? How about drunken sailors? As if females were more prone toward irresponsibility.
One thing that sometimes drags this blog down is unnecessary hatefulness. It’s OK to hate on the FB, but we should try not to spread it around too much.
I’m a great deal more concerned about Chavez and recent events in Honduras (and Obama’s lack of support of people seeking to be free of authoritarian governments) than I am about Russia, which is toast.
I think the Russians are going to be looking at more problems down the road than we are.
-A big country, with a shrinking population, with a country to the south that has a huge population, that is trying to grab all the raw materials that aren’t nailed down.
-on their southwest border, several countries that don’t particularly want, need, or like leadership from Moscow.
The Russians, however, have never shown any sqeamishness about being as brutal as they need to be to put down any uprising, or “challenge to their authoritay…”
In the meantime, the immigrant Han Chinese are displacing the resident Uyghurs out of their own country. I’m curious to see what the rest of the Muslim World has to say about this. Will there be a rush of Arab “Freedom Fighters” to try to prevent suppresion of their fellow Muslims?
As far as the US is concerned, I think we have painted ourselves into a corner with all of the time, brainpower and money that we’ve spent in super-accurate weapons, most of which has been spent in attempts to reduce collateral damage and casualties. We are at the point where our military options are being limited; because we are worried about the enemie’s casualties as much as our own. And having demonstrated the ability to deliver weapons with pin-point accuracy, pin-point accuracy and no collateral damage are now expected, and any errors are now propoganda material for our opponents.
The problem is, most of the people “on the fence” fear our opponents more than they do the USA………but I’d bet that a few “Arc-Light” missions would fix that.
Good post.
About 4-5 years ago, I asked my mother a very pointed question. The question was this: If you had the ability to shoot dead a terrorist - who had a gun to her child’s head and had every intent on killing said child - would you shoot the terrorist?
My mother- a liberal - was at a total loss as to how to answer the question. She was throughly dumbfounded and confused. She never did answer it.
This is despite the fact that she knows I’m highly unlikely to commit murder, while simultaneously knowing that the terrorist is highly likely to murder other innocents.
I’ll never understand the mind of a liberal, much in the same way that I’ll never understand the mind of an evangelist.
I think people at both ends of the scale have somehow mentally ill - literally.
How can anyone possibly know what they would do until the situation arises?
Generally
-Liberals…….hope for the best, and don’t plan for the worst.
Conservatives…….assume the worst, and are mildly surprised/disappointed when the worst doesn’t happen.
“He told me, ‘Cheer up…things could be worse’…..Sure enough, I cheered up, and things got worse……”
(A special attaboy for anyone who can name the movie)
By that thinking…if your wife/sister/daughter was facing a known rapist who threatened to rape her, you’d stand around and wait to see if the rape occurred before doing anything to prevent what was highly likely to happen.
Perhaps you’re waiting to see if penetration would actually occur before reducing the threat level?
I’m a “liberal,” and I would shoot without a second thought and with no remorse. That has little to do with politics, IMO. I see nothing contradictory in, say, supporting the ACLU and also being able to take a life if the situation called for it. I think your hypothetical is really about squeamishness. You know, those people who eat meat but are aghast at the idea of slaughtering an animal.
About 4-5 years ago, I asked my mother a very pointed question. The question was this: If you had the ability to shoot dead a terrorist - who had a gun to her child’s head and had every intent on killing said child - would you shoot the terrorist?
I think your missing something here.
I think the vast majority of liberals would shoot a terrorist with a gun pointed at the head of a child knowing he had the intent of shooting the child.
The question defining liberals is more would they shoot and or waterboard an entire village because some annonymous foreign agent named curveball reportedly told a foreign intelligence service that he had seen a guy who looked like a terrorist in the village.
If you had the ability to shoot dead a terrorist - who had a gun to her child’s head and had every intent on killing said child - would you shoot the terrorist?
Two in the heart and one in the head, as fast as I could aim.
And, I’m as Liberal as they come.
Good, glad to hear it.
It may come to that, what with Obama lending a plane to Honduras ex-president/wanna-be dictator (to help him flee) and Hezzbollah now running drugs through Mexico.
I suppose you are an expert in Honduran law?
As I recall thewer was a military coup.
Hey, I’m one of those unemployed losers. I was laid off due to a merger, not because I’m inefficient. 2 employees for the same job, one had to go (and they heard I was interviewing anyway). Just for the record, I’m very good at what I do.
Speaking of Obama and his “diplomacy,” where’s Secretary of State Hillary these days? She didn’t go with The One on this trip.
I’m guessing Michelle told Hillary to stay home.
Hillary busted her elbow last month. She underwent two hours of surgery to fix the break. Methinks that she’s not going to hitting the road until she’s out of the cast and sling.
James, I see you know your history.
It’s a story as old as civilization. This may very well be one of those times.
No, it’s not “…different this time.”
A gift to those who say “it’s different this time”
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Lemerande/jul082009.html
I couldn’t have done it better!
Good find Bill.
My favorite is still Blue Oyster Cult’s song “Godzilla”
“History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men.”
‘I haven’t seen anything that says we can’t provide healthcare for everyone. ‘
Like everything else, just clean up medical fraud and they’ll be plenty of money for healthcare.
Health care is wildly expensive because we spend most of it trying to keep people alive just a little bit longer than they would have normally lived. Why invest $100K in surgery & rehab on someone over 80 to keep them alive for just one more year?
And why pay for some 500 lb. losers diabetes treatments? And do surgeons really require $800K/year? Really, I am all for national health care if it were done sanely, reasonably & responsibly. But as long as no one is willing to discuss a few of the 900 lb gorillas in the room, I’m opposed.
So that means you also are in favor of eliminating $100K investments for welfare brood mamas and papas, nearly all of whom are a drain on societal welfare?
Why bother providing them with healthcare? Most of them will get shot or murder someone else anyway.
Why bother providing healthcare to drug addicts?
If you agree with those statements too, then I’ll be more willing to consider your point of view. The non-productive include a great many more than 80-year-olds and fat people, many of who are more productive than your typical government worker.
I’m more in favor of a National “Fitness” Plan. Sure, we’ll provide you with getting your blood pressure checked and insulin etc. But in order to get it, you have to “enroll” in our fitness and counseling sessions.
We’ll help you lose those extra pounds and get you back on the right track etc. As a country, it’s the least we can do. But if this is just going to be another “under all circumstances until death” program, then no, I can’t get onboard with that.
To ALL their credit, most of our recent Presidents have placed an emphasis on fitness. Now it’s time to put some teeth into it. Want “free” healthcare? Great, you’ll need to show regular improvement every “free” check up! We’ll even provide “free” running shoes and directions to the nearest track.
I agree with the above. Especially the final paragraph. As much as I loathed GWB, I will hand it to him for his dedication to fitness. The guy even became a serious bicyclist, for pete’s sake!
And for the current occupants of the White House, I will quibble with them about those junk food runs (Five Guys and Ray’s Hell Burger), but, hey, that’s just me. However, I do give Barack and Michelle credit for keeping themselves in good shape. Especially her. Not so easy to do after you’ve had two children.
Not a bad idea, DinOR, but I do have to take issue with the “counseling sessions” angle. Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. That’s all this country does. Well, maybe that and text, text, tweet, text, tweet.
Besides, there’s plenty of counseling available already. Think “Oprah”.
If anything, expand existing cell-phone/twitter addiction services.
Drumminj - are you seeing this? Get involved with a start-up that helps texting-/celebrity-addicted to break their addiction.
Counseling of the talk, talk, talk sort has never appealed to me. It’s just too much damn talk. I mean, for goodness sake, DO something.
Now, if the counseling involved a brisk walk around the park, hey, you’ve got something. Brisk walks burn calories galore.
But enough with the yak-yak already.
Eudemon/ Arizona Slim,
Oh agreed! And I only use the term “counseling” ( in ribbing fashion! ) Try JAW-boning! After ‘this’ free visit we’ll expect you to have lost 3 lbs. before we see you next time.
Lots of strings, lots of stick and not a whole lot of carrot.
“So that means you also are in favor of eliminating $100K investments for welfare brood mamas and papas, nearly all of whom are a drain on societal welfare?
Why bother providing them with healthcare? Most of them will get shot or murder someone else anyway.
Why bother providing healthcare to drug addicts?
If you agree with those statements too, then I’ll be more willing to consider your point of view. The non-productive include a great many more than 80-year-olds and fat people, many of who are more productive than your typical government worker.”
Eudemon,
I agree, so feel free to consider my point of view, or not, I don’t really gaf. Again, taxpayers should not provide health care to those who do not take the responsibility for their own health seriously.
Just like lawyers….have the gov pay for their education in exchange for a cap on earnings…sound fair to me…Right?
Just once, I’d like one of these people who says stuff like “500 lb Loser” to say it to my face. (I’m not 500 lbs, but I’m closer to that than 150).
Try working 12 hour days, 5-7 days a week (700-1100 hour of O/T a year) on second shift, then watching kids all day; do this for nine years, then come back and talk to me about a weight problem. (you see, the pay in my industry has been turning to $hit since about 1980…….so nobody with any brains has been getting into the business….so all the people remaining in the business get run into the ground……)
Change jobs? I have, (twice)……….the O/T went down a little, but the wacky hours of the new jobs (like reporting at 3am on one day, then starting the next day at 6pm) don’t help the problem.
“Touchy-feely, employee-wellness programs” don’t apply to anyone who is deemed “essential to operations” and “profitability”.
And good luck getting insurance to pay for anything related to weight-loss programs…….every group plan I’ve been in considers weight loss “cosmetic”, like boob jobs.
For the record, I haven’t missed any time off from work due to illness since 1997 (pneumonia), and haven’t had a vacation since 2001 (before that, it was 1994). Maybe that’s why I’m so pi$$ed off at the world and cranky….
I’m probably going to keel over from a heart attack or stroke before I hit 60 (like a bunch of guys I know with similar jobs), so don’t worry, I won’t be a “burden” on you and all the other taxpayers.
Then you must have Millions saved up, so why are you even working?
It makes no sense to work that many hours unless its your own business.
Only once did i do that many hours, and that was all during the OJ trial at Court tv, blank check city.
I was Salaried-exempt. I got paid straight time (I should have stayed a crew-chief in the bargaining unit…..right decision at the time that turned out bad). I wasn’t in a position where I could quit at the time.
I finally got tired of being the manager on duty, one weekend out of four (on top of the normal 55-60 hour workweek) , while the new hires who were with me were making more money than I was. (they were drawing overtime/double-time on Sundays)
At the time, I was putting a (now ex-) wife thru college. Watched the little ones all day, then reported at 3pm. The Ex and I got along fine, as long as I was at work 95% of the time she was home.
Of course, a couple of years after I left (and a suicide, heart attack and aneurism or two), the company figured out why they couldn’t hire anyone worth a $hit to replace me and the other guys who left (voluntarily or feet first), and gave everyone pay raises, while hiring more people and splitting the job between two people.
Seems that they finally figured out that you couldn’t pack 43 pounds of crap in an 8 pound bag.
I’d like to start my own shop, but I don’t have a half-million dollars plus in capital lying around to equip a shop, just to listen to guys bi#ch about how they are being charged too much to get their airplanes fixed………so I wait for the axe to fall here, while doing a little contract work on the side, for guys who know what I’m worth, and aren’t whining about my day-rate.
Its the same all over GS….you really do get what you pay for
But people need to be screwed over first before they will pay the correct amount for professionalism
Trust me, even a dj gets calls after being undercut, saying we should have booked you.
Lets hope no plane full of passengers fall in to the ocean before they realize who really deserves the money in their paychecks.
Amen to that aNYCdj.
I know two people where I currently work who claim to have become diabetic due to the stress and such from working 70 hour weeks.
Becoming stressed is certainly not worth it. I worked enough overtime to save up several years of living expenses in government securities and precious metals in case of a stock collapse. I’m willing to downsize to a studio apartment in Tucson for under $500 per month and get around on bicycle if I must, at some point.
Life is too short and health is much more important than displaying wealth.
X-GSFixer,
That’s actually my point. And trust me no brokerage firm gives a rip how overweight you are as long as you’re bringing home da’ goods. Nor do they care if you have a blatant drug or alcohol problem. They really don’t.
My wife’s employer tried the touchy-feely thing for years and it wasn’t until they offered a -discount- for losing weight etc. that it had any teeth.
I’m just saying, if we establish this thing w/ NO strings attached, it WILL become unmanageable in short order. And again we’re incenting all the wrong things? If they’re showing ‘improvement’ than they are “invested” in the plan. If we’re going to provide it either way, why bother?
You’re on to something with that incentive thing, DinOr.
Case in point: Here in Tucson, there’s a weekly walking group called Meet Me at Maynard’s. Happens every evening at 6 p.m., and it starts and ends at Maynard’s Kitchen and Market in Downtown Tucson.
Early on, the organizers decided to reward people for completing a certain number of walks. If you did five, you got a tee shirt. At eight, you got a hat.
You should have seen people going all out to earn those things. I’ve even gotten caught up in it myself — no way was I going to not make that hat walk. Even though it was already getting hot, and Downtown has lots of impervious surfaces that radiate heat right back at you.
Oops. My bad. The Meet Me at Maynard’s walk is every Monday evening at 6 p.m. Look for the slender one with the camera — that’s me.
“just clean up medical fraud”
Prosecuting insurance company exec’s is a good start.
Anybody else noticing that the price of gold’s been dropping for the past month?
Down to $918 off from the slightly over $1000 high.
Can’t seem to find any analysis as to why. Don’t own any, just wonderin’.
Cue Alad.
All the commodities have been taking a hit. I might buy some GLD if it gets down to $88.
I have been buying physical gold and platinum….
Price may be going down, but damn, they are some pretty gold and platinum eagles!
It’s getting to be buying season in gold and platinum for me. I’m still at 12% of my assets in precious metals and trying to get that back down to 10% before I add more to my stockpile.
I might buy at $88, too.
Well, if gold went to $88 then you would have experienced the greatest DE-FLATIONARY crash in history. The good news is you would be able to buy your ‘dream’ home for a few thousand dollars. I would not hold my breath though, if we think BB has been printing at this point you ain’t seen nothing yet, if deflation starts in earnest, then hang on because a trillion will look like peanuts.
GLD, not gold…..
It is interesting - seems to have a very close correlation with treasuries the last few months - ever since late December. Treasury yields have been dropping pretty much in lock-step with gold the past month.
The relationship makes some sense in that apparently the treasury auctions have been going well - thus there’s less expectations of the need for the Fed to buy more bonds, thus lessening inflation expectations.
However on the flip side - I’m surprised that that hasn’t been offset by the talk of a second stimulus from the last couple of days. Obviously that would require an sizable big chunk of new debt, and thus add inflationary pressure.
To follow up - here’s a very interesting graph IMO - the relationship between treasury and gold the last two years. Note that up until early January the two were almost exactly inverse with each other. Since then they’ve done a 180 and now follow each other closely. Odd.
One would be tempted to correlate it with Obama - but I can’t think of any specific reason why, since he’s mostly following through on the Keynesian principles started by Bush last fall.
TNX vs. GLD
Yeah, ppl need to cash to pay their debts. Gold price went up thanks to easy money.
Right. It’s just like all the sheep that ran out and bought an arsenal of weapons and ammo. Now, they’re realizing they can’t pay for groceries with bullets.
Does that mean the price of ammo will come down? (Pretty please?) It’s been a while since I’ve been to the range…
Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO Into AAA Bonds
By Pierre Paulden, Caroline Salas and Sarah Mulholland
July 8 (Bloomberg) — Morgan Stanley plans to repackage a downgraded collateralized debt obligation backed by leveraged loans into new securities with AAA ratings in the first transaction of its kind, said two people familiar with the sale.
Morgan Stanley is selling $87.1 million of securities that it expects to receive top AAA ratings and $42.9 million of notes graded Baa2, the second-lowest investment grade by Moody’s Investors Service, according to marketing documents obtained by Bloomberg News. The bonds were created from Greywolf CLO I Ltd., a CDO arranged in January 2007 by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and managed by Greywolf Capital Management LP, an investment firm based in Purchase, New York.
Two years after the credit markets began to seize up, costing the world’s biggest financial institutions $1.47 trillion in writedowns and losses, banks are again taking so- called structured finance securities and turning them into new debt investments with top credit ratings. While the Morgan Stanley deal is the first to involve CDOs of loans, banks have being doing the same with commercial mortgage-backed securities in recent weeks.
A lot of banks and insurers “cannot buy anything but AAA,” said Sylvain Raynes, a principal at R&R Consulting in New York and co-author of “Elements of Structured Finance,” which is due to be published in November by Oxford University Press. “You’re manufacturing AAA out of not AAA, therefore allowing those people who have AAA written on their forehead to buy.”
FB,
And we’re “surprised” by this? Only in that it took them this long to re-package this junk!
I’ll be interested to see how many people buy and at what price.
My guess is that they will bribe some pension managers to purchase this crap. Or maybe Bernanke and Paulson will drag them over the coals for a while and threaten to break their knee caps.
Un-believe-able!
Anything big happen in the last couple of weeks besides FF and MJ and the market going down a bit? I normally read everything posted here, but was on vacation for a couple of weeks and couldn’t. Now that I’m back I’m realizing that I depend on this blog to help point me to the real news and I’m feeling lost.
This brings to mind the fable of the frog and the scorpion. The one which ends with the frog’s death and the scorpion saying “I’m a scorpion; it’s my nature.” I’ll give you one guess who plays the scorpion and who plays the part of the frog…
Morgan Stanley Plans to Turn Downgraded Loan CDO Into AAA Bonds
Link here
Morgan Stanley plans to repackage a downgraded collateralized debt obligation backed by leveraged loans into new securities with AAA ratings in the first transaction of its kind, said two people familiar with the sale.
Two years after the credit markets began to seize up, costing the world’s biggest financial institutions $1.47 trillion in writedowns and losses, banks are again taking so- called structured finance securities and turning them into new debt investments with top credit ratings. While the Morgan Stanley deal is the first to involve CDOs of loans, banks have being doing the same with commercial mortgage-backed securities in recent weeks.
Here’s the money quote: A lot of banks and insurers “cannot buy anything but AAA”… “You’re manufacturing AAA out of not AAA, therefore allowing those people who have AAA written on their forehead to buy.”
I hereby declare that the toilet paper I used earlier this morning is AAA rated.
I’ll give you 400 Quatloos for your AAA rated paper.
Ahhh, Quatloos.
Won a nice prize opening night for ST-VI when they had quiz contest for the several hundred in the audience an hour before curtain. Seems I was the only one who knew about Quatloos.
-evil
nice job evil. >:-)
Are they calling it a CDO Squared? Or have they at least had teh decency to come up with a new name?
1. Whose rating is AAA?
2. Whose stupid enough to buy?
What does it matter? It just shows that Wall St. is once again up to the same shady practices that led us into the bust in it’s quest to justify it’s existance and cheat more money from whatever suckers it finds.
Wall St. has learned nothing from the unwinding of the greatest credit bubble in history… with the exception being that if you lobby the right people and put enough of your former I-bankers in high-level government positions, you can get the taxpayers on the hook for your speculative losses.
I say it’s time for investing alternatives to Wall Street. Anyone for locally-based investment markets? Say, for investing in businesses in a certain region?
I’ve been reading a book about re-localization. (Title: The Transition Handbook. Author: Rob Hopkins.) It has me going.
A.B. Dada had some good things to say about doing that. The hard part is having opportunities available to us “average” folk (ie those of us who didn’t cash out at top of bubble in CA and bank a cool million, then move to texas and buy a house for $100k cash)
I’d be interested too, Slim, but my dilemma is the same as drumminj’s. I don’t have the kind of bank required either.
Sorry - maybe one day the scenario will be different.
“So you’re allowing ppl who are idiots to buy your cheap product at a high price.”
Thanks, oh wise dude. Bottoms up.
City party king who feared he’d lose broker job leaps to death from roof-top restaurant ‘wearing best suit and holding glass of champagne’
By Daily Mail Reporter
08th July 2009
A stockbroker who feared losing his job leapt to his death from an eighth-storey rooftop restaurant in the City wearing his best suit and holding a glass of champagne.
Anjool Malde leapt from Coq d’Argent restaurant near the Bank of England just days short of his 25th birthday. He walked into the eaterie at lunchtime on Sunday and ordered the champagne before going on to the terrace and climbing over a railing.
‘He always liked to do things differently, he wanted to be noticed,’ said a friend.
Mr Malde had been told by his Deutsche Bank employers on Friday to leave work early following ‘an inquiry into an IT matter’. He was said to have been told that he was not to come back in until called by the bank.
He had recently been tipped for promotion and friends said losing his position would have been a devastating blow.
Known as Jools by his friends he would have turned 25 yesterday and had been due to celebrate his birthday at the Amuse Bouche bar in Soho tomorrow.
Mr Malde, who on his website listed his work status as ‘living the dream’, was co-founder of AlphaParties, a company that organises social events in exclusive areas of London for well-heeled young professionals and students. He was also a successful entrepreneur and former BBC radio presenter.
He had a flat in the East End, a holiday apartment in Spain, which he described as a ‘penthouse’, and was frequently photographed in the company of attractive women.
His website gave no indication of any personal crisis and neither did any feeds posted on Twitter. In one he wrote ‘We have the host table with free drinks at Funky Buddha tonight’.
He also mentioned being in the Spanish resort of Puerto Banus close to his Marbella flat. ‘It’s 10pm and 28 degrees. second life in the Mediterranean - best idea ever.’
A friend said his employers deleted his Bloomberg account, which allows him to talk to other bankers and have access to the markets, adding: ‘All of us have heard he was about to be suspended by Deutsche and he was upset about it.’
‘He was wearing his best suit and had a glass of champagne in his hand when he jumped. Jools always liked to do things differently, he wanted to be noticed.’
Years and years down the road, in those uncertain days before some future crisis, people will again doubt that things like this ever happened.
And here we are, living it.
Some people dont know how good they have it..
He is educated and in the company of pretty women…Suicide is never a good option and most things will pass, especially at a young age. God rest his soul.
But I bet, let him come spend a month with me here in this crap hole and I bet he would have said “Things are bad for me, but your job SUCKS!”
If I hear a few thousand more stories like that one I just might start feeling hopefull again. If anyone thinks that sentiment makes me something of an a-hole, well,.. deal with it. We are all in the middle of a class war and I know exactly which side I’m on. If there were any decency left in the human race it would be RAINING bankers.
(The guy was barely 25, what could he really have been ‘that’ responisble for? ) C’mon.
Are you joking? What does age have to do with level of fraud? Only CEOs can do it? Remember that “young” buck that got charged with trading, what, a BILLION bones worth of investments to only have them go sour and his company say they did not authorize the trades?
…or the guy that brought down BCCI?
Plenty of young “playas” out there.
There HAS to be more to it. Smells like another mini-Madoff.
I suspect embezzlement. IT matter, don’t come back… they didn’t want him covering any trails while they got ready to press charges is my bet. He knew the gig was up and felt he was ‘too pretty’ to go to jail.
Well, he certainly made a splash!
Feared losing his job, huh? Guess he definitely lost it then, didn’t he?
Anyone else read from this that it sounds like the bank was investigating him for something maybe criminal?
Did anyone see $500 properties on online auction at auction.com?
Are these real?
Those are REDC auctions. Unless they’ve changed their policy, they have reserve prices.
This is discouraging. The Swiss government is stepping in to block UBS from complying with US court orders to identify US people with fat UBS bank balances.
The case in the federal district court in Miami has become a focal point of Washington’s efforts to crack down on tax evasion and the foreign banks that help wealthy Americans send money overseas. But UBS and the Swiss government say handing over the names would violate Swiss law and subject bank employees to criminal prosecution in Switzerland.
“Swiss law prohibits UBS from complying with a possible order by the court in Miami to hand over the client information,” the Swiss Justice Ministry said in a statement, describing its latest filing with the Miami court.
It said the bank would not be in a position to comply, anyhow, since “all the necessary measures should be taken to prevent UBS from handing over the information on the 52,000 account holders demanded in the U.S. civil proceeding.”
Ministry spokesman Folco Galli told The Associated Press the government decided last month that it would even seize the documents from UBS to prevent the transfer.
I just wish the US would grow a pair and say fine UBS and Swiss banks can no longer do business in the US, or slap some stiff Tariffs on them to make up the difference from lost tax revenue.
This is pure BS and the fact our politicians do nothing disgusts me.
Preach it, measton!
“our politicians do nothing”..
well, what else could one expect.
The world’s movers and shakers have Swiss accounts. Politicians, celebrities, industry and business leaders and people who just have tons of money. Obama probably has one. We’re talking Worldwide, wealthy and powerful people from every country.
What would happen if they cough up these files and set the precedent where some foreign govt could demand a look at the books? They would destroy their banking system overnight as everyone withdrew deposits in search of a more reliable country/bank.. one that appreciated holding the money.
You think some Miami court is gonna overturn 300 years of Swiss bank privacy laws?
Isn’t it a little hard to believe the Miami court was “unaware” the Swiss had the protective laws? You think this idea ever had a snowball’s chance in hell of succeeding? Or was it all just smoke…
Hitler that tried to put pressure on the Swiss… find out which Germans had accounts.. around 1932 ..read up on that. The end result was tougher and more restrictive Swiss bank privacy laws including some new ones against espionage.
think these things through a little.. sure, we all wanna catch the crooks.. but ain’t it a little early in the game for Gestapo tactics?
we all wanna catch the crooks.. but ain’t it a little early in the game for Gestapo tactics?
Gestopo tactics ?????????????
I don’t think I suggested waterboardineg the bankers just banning them from doing business in the US or taxineg the hell out of them. What would you suggest we do if GS decided to refuse to identify who had deposits in their money markets and how much intereset they were paid. If that didn’t work we could start confiscating their propterty in teh US.
I mentioned the Gestapo because they apparently had the same goal the Miami court has.
No water-boarding. They traveled to Switzerland and walked into the banks incognito, attempting to deposit money in various German suspects’ accounts. The teller may or may not take it.
If the money was accepted the account must exist, and it’s holder therefore discovered, and sometime thereafter murdered..
Switzerland is all about banking security.. A practically sacred institution that remains neutral and has withstood World Wars while countries around them are destroyed.
If they are ever found lax in banking security or secrecy it’s not an understatement to say it would destroy Switzerland itself.
The Miami court knows this full well.. so who they trying to fool?
I am a strict privacy advocate. Can we have any secrets from the U.S. govt?
Why should fishing expeditions from the IRS trump any law?
Just because the IRS is incompetent? Why can’t the IRS hire a few smart people and figure out who has those bank accounts and go after them? UBS closed all the accounts and mailed them all checks, can’t they just ask the mailman for heaven’s sake?
It’s not a “fishing expedition from the IRS”.
It’s a court order.
I’m guessing the NSA has the goods on these guys but doesn’t want to expose its sources and methods…
I look at all the new taxes and tax increases likely coming down the pipe and it freaks me out. IRS questioned a line on our return; three letters and three months later I can’t even get someone to simply review our W-2s (which would prove we’re right). So right now I’m wishing I had a secret Swiss bank account too (I don’t).
How about just banning, ie. making illegal, transactions in the US with swiss banks….. put an end to it.
I’m sure I’ll hear so quack belabor…….. the poor banks!!!!
“Greatest Entertainer who ever lived.”
I know you are supposed to say nice things at funerals, but…..
Can anyone explain to me this whole Michael Jackson thing to me?
Maybe it’s a “chick thing” and us white guys aren’t supposed to “get it”……..I personally find the nationwide obsession with him a little bit ridiculous, and a sad commentary on how far the “hero” bar has been lowered.
Signed,
Not-a-Fan (even before he started turning “weird”).
Good dance music.
I don’t do the “dance” thing. …….I have this phobia about not looking like an idiot in public. That must be it.
It’s called diversionary tactics, keep the masses obesessed on anything but reality…
Never been a MJ fan either. Nor much of a fan of anybody (except a couple of old gold miners over in Colorado who managed to retire young from high-grading the big corporate mine that left a cyanide leach pit superfund)…
I’m a “white guy”, and I “get it” though I’m not a fan per se. It’s no different than the Elvis thing. Jackson was a HUGE entertainer, and thus had tens, if not hundreds, of millions of fans. Love him or hate him, nobody can deny his talent or contributions to music.
I can. Easily. He was nothing but another pop hack.
Can anyone explain to me this whole Michael Jackson thing to me?
Not really, because I’m not a fan either. But I gotta say there was something about Thriller (the album) that was genius even if it wasn’t your thing (kinda like Nevermind from Nirvana). I remember seeing him famously do Billy Jean with the moonwalk on that famous awards show when “the rest of America” finally discovered him and it WAS pretty amazing. I was also amazed that Eddie Van Halen played on Beat It, since in my young redneck mind EVH was by far the bigger star. I guess I’m just saying he created a huge cultural milestone regardless of whether you like him. That’s what gets you the “immortal treatment” when you’re gone.
Van Halen (pre-Sammy)………now that’s entertainment!.
Actually, Sammy wasn’t bad either. But Van Halen without David Lee is like the Three Stooges without Curly.
Did nothing for me, and I’m a chick…well a female anyway.
Amazing performer. Saw him on his Thriller tour. Didn’t listen to much of his music after that, but absolutely riveting to see live.
BTW - IMO he was completely asexual. Therefore I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt re: his predilection for youngsters. He was so determined to be Peter Pan even to his high pitched squeaky voice, plus I read he went to sleep to Disney movies. Yep, asexual.
Bankrate.com published my email in response to forgiving debt among “homeowners”:
http://www.bankrate.com/blogs/mortgages/mortgage-matters.aspx
Thank you Ben and others for keeping me so educated since late 2005 on this blog!!!
Awesome response by you!
This part of the response from Holden is just flat-out wrong:
I don’t think it artificially props up real-estate prices if the bank forgives some of your neighbor’s debt.
Yes it very much does artificially prop up prices, because it removes natural supply from the marketplace, skewing the supply/demand curve, and thus inflating prices.
If instead the person is foreclosed upon - that puts an additional house on the market for sale. Increase of supply with demand unchanged = decrease in price. It’s Econ 101.
By allowing these people to stay in their houses, it perpetuates the existing non-equilibrium state where there is a set of the population that currently owns a house but that never should have owned one. This is the state of over-inflated prices. Proper price equilibrium is reached only when demand = supply, where demand includes only such people that can afford the product.
It’s income transfer 101, as the extension of forebearance to homeowners who would otherwise be foreclosed presumably comes out of someone else’s pocket.
Hey, I thought your name was Anthony. What else you been lyin’ bout, Ant?
Nice job Anthony.
Lewis is an idiot. “It’s not all about you.” What is he….a 5th grader?
The virtuous don’t get a reward but the foolish do? Oh my! This is moral hazard in retail. Goldman Sachs is moral hazard in wholesale. In any case, the foolish should be rewarded for their foolishness in proportion with the level of foolishness.
Like a bankruptcy for instance. Like bad credit scores for a decade or longer. Like no retirement money. Their retirement money should be nothing more than their savings if they have managed to accrue any and what Soc. Sec. would still exist by that time.
People should suffer the natural consequences of their actions. That is the best teacher.
Still, we need some serious regulation and prison time for not adhering to them.
Roidy
“It’s not all about you.”
Wrong. If you’re a taxpaying American, it IS all about you.
“if your neighbor’s debt is forgiven so they can stay in the home, I think the effect on you is indirect and minimal.”
Wrong again. The economic impact of the bubble alone is having a major impact on nearly everyone.
“I don’t think it artificially props up real-estate prices if the bank forgives some of your neighbor’s debt.”
That’s EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES! This guy is a complete idiot. But then again, most of them are.
I would highly recommend that you all write similar letters as I’ve been hearing a lot recently about forgiving debt–New York Times, Bloomberg, et al. I know, I know, it is probably useless…I wrote to so many Congresspeople about a year or two ago to no avail. Perhaps, it is a way to soothe my extreme anger about the way this country is progressing–how it is so acceptable to walk away from obligations AND get the sympathy of the media. What are we teaching people who are learning it is OK to walk from your obligations and, much worse, what does that mean for future behavior of those same people?
After a very good 2008, post March 2009 is clobbering me. First make the mistake of thinking REITs would collapse and now I’m 10 percent down thinking the 30yr treasury rates would rise… anyone having a GOOD year?
I did okay through end of April, but I couldn’t trust the rally beyond that. We’re still mostly in cash… earning a mere 1.5%. Sure beats watching our home equity disappear, though!
Well, I had a good year, so far. Short treasuries, long on selected stocks, and almost all my cash was spoken for by March. But I’ve bailed out like a madman in the last month or so. It looked like the rally went too far, too fast, given the weak conditions. I even bailed out of my short treasury positions (whew).
Of course, that means I’ll miss the next big stimulus-driven market upswing late this summer. (Ha!) I’m not worried. Energy stocks paying decent divvies will hold me for now; everything else, I’ll take cash, no bonds, please! 1.5% is OK with me this year on cash.
Anyone playing the stock market shoudl read Denninger:
…GS, through access to the system as a result of their special gov’t perks, was/is able to read the data on trades before it’s committed, and place their own buys or sells accordingly in that brief moment, thus allowing them to essentially steal buttloads of money every day from the rest of the punters world.
Got a link perhaps? Piqued my curiosity. That sounds like blatant insider trading to me, and should very much be illegal.
No.
now I’m 10 percent down thinking the 30yr treasury rates would rise…
Why would you think 30yr treasury yields would rise? That would probably mean the bond market was pricing in longer-term inflation expectations… if Japan is any example (and I believe it is THE example), we’ve got decades of this deflation thing to work through.
I don’t put much stock in the “stated actions” of certain Foreign Central Banks reducing demand for dollar holdings and US debt. As long as the US dollar is the global reserve currency of the world (i.e. oil is priced exclusively in dollars), governments will continue to buy our debt for their account surpluses. Also, foreign governments are bailing out their economies as fast as the US so relative currency values are holding.
Lastly, the stock market technicals are looking weaker by the day while fundamentals haven’t improved. There is still too much debt/leverage on balance sheets and consumer demand may have stabilized momentarily, but there will be another leg down once the long-term-unemployed lose their benefits and savings and realize there are no jobs . According to the latest reports, wages declined over 3 percent annually, increasing the chance for another leg down in consumer demand. All this bodes well for treasuries and other “safe havens” as earnings get slammed, so shorting Treasuries is probably not the way to go.
BTW, I’m not a Wall St. professional, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once…
For those who despise that lying scumbag Jim Cramer as I do:
“Lenny Dykstra, a former star center fielder for the New York Mets and Philadelphia Phillies, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, Reuters News Service reports.
Dykstra, 46, filed a petition on July 7 with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Central District of California claiming no more than $50,000 of assets and between $10 million and $50 million of liabilities.”
From an ESPN article a few months ago:
“CNBC personality Jim “Mad Money” Cramer hypes him [Dykstra] as a stock guru. On an investment Web site co-founded by Cramer, subscribers drop $999.95 a year to get Dykstra’s options picks.”
Here’s a link good for a few chuckles:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4084962
I’m NOT remotely interested in sports or sports figures, but I was GLUED to this article. Dykstra is almost a criminal.
Cramer IS. Bird of a feather…
Ugh, what a cheddar-eating moroon. I can’t stand these “chasing the high life” scammers. The Donald gets away with this shtick because he’s such a buffoon.
Cramer is known thief and liar.
The deceptive practices also caught the attention of Nichol as Maier, the syndicate manager of Cramer & Co., the hedge fund run at the time by the now-famous chattering television rear end in a top hat Jim Cramer, himself a Goldman alum. Maier told the SEC that while working for Cramer between 1996 and 1998, he was repeatedly forced to engage in laddering practices during IPO deals with Goldman.
The Great American Bubble Machine :
By MATT TAIBBI
Rolling Stones
10 YEAR DOWN 17 BASIS POINTS TODAY!!
Something is coming:
Goldman Earnings?
Economic Data?
Bank Failure?
Bernanke Money Shot??
That is about as close to a panic as we have seen in a while.
OK - I’m not macroeconomist, so please explain. Why would treasury yields being down (strictly) indicate panic?
I understand how yields *combined* with a huge market drop (e.g. like last fall and winter) indicate panic, since it indicates a flight to safety. But today the stock market was flat. Commodities are what was down. This to me indicates that it wasn’t a flight to safety move; else gold for instance probably would have been up.
From what I can see a move of this size has been accompanied by some sort of event. Either Economic or Political. We have not seen swings of this size in a long while.
Perhaps it is as you reason and simply a Commodities coupling.
The finance blogs will be discussing this in detail this afternoon and tonight.
For reference, when we had the original melt down in the markets you would get swings in the 8-14 basis points range eithr before or after an anouncement(usually before). Bear, Lehman, etc…. The size of this move is substantial. Time will tell.
It is hard to say what is really going on when there is a possibility the Fed or other 800 lb gorilla is intervening on a massive scale. The possibility of govt intervention confounds the possibility that a flight to quality by individual investors explains the yield move.
It certainly is substantial. Could be the sign that a big stock crash is coming up.
10 YEAR DOWN 17 BASIS POINTS TODAY!!
Something is coming
Possibly, or could just reflect that the Feds are at it again buying T-Bills to drive down the yield. Gotta keep rates low to prop up the housing market, you know.
No surprise here, the thieving bastards will never allow an audit. Funny thing is it’s not their money, so why not?
Great news: The Federal Reserve will retain its right to operate in secrecy. From the Agora5, July 8th
Late yesterday, the Senate majority put the kibosh on a last-hour provision in the 2010 spending bill that would audit the Fed. Not because it’s a bad idea… but because of the arcane Rule 16, which prohibits policy legislation from being added to spending bills. (The kind of “rule” that’s only evoked when the majority gets uncomfortable.)
“The Federal Reserve will create and disburse trillions of dollars in response to our current financial crisis,” said Sen. Jim DeMint, who spearheaded the failed audit addition. “Americans across the nation, regardless of their opinion on the bailout, want to know where the money has gone.” Under his proposed plan, the Government Accountability Office would take a look into the Fed’s discount window lending, various funding “facilities,” bank bailouts and agreements with foreign players.
Shame on Mr. DeMint for such an outrageous request. Down-to-the-wire appropriations should be reserved for truly exigent causes… like protecting the makers of wooden arrows designed for use by children. Why bother wasting the time of the GAO with a simple audit of the most unaccountable monetary body in the world?
Ron Paul’s bill — that other shameful attempt to audit the Fed — now has 249 co-sponsors in the House. Wonder what brand of parliamentary fine print Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi might summon to quash that one.
Greets from the Dallas Airport (heading for home). Can’t help but overhear the preacher man sitting ten feet to my life, yacking away on his cell phone in a deep Texas drawl: “Our income has taken a real hit,” he said…
Is he a televangelist?
Are all of our reporters innumerate these days?
Just a few years ago, the home this coupled wanted would have been beyond their means. But the 16% price drop in the Seattle area let them scoop up the property in Mountlake Terrace — about 10 minutes north of Seattle — for $210,000 rather than the $300,000 it would have sold for.
That is from the Money/CNN article on people getting deals.
16% off is $252,000 not $210,000. 30% off is $210,000.
I will post the link in a second in case it gets eaten by the grue.
The article is here on CNN/Money.
There are some other stories of knife catchers in there. But in one location, they referred to appreciation as ‘potential appreciation.’
However, they still assumed it would happen and make the condo a good buy.
Maybe they’re saying that Seattle in general dropped 16%, even though this particular house dropped 30%. Who cares? Just point and laugh; that’s what I do.
but wait there’s more
Drywall sufferers worry walls may be radioactive
By ALLISON ROSS
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 08, 2009
PALM BEACH GARDENS — These days, Jill Wachter has a lot on her mind.
After discovering several months ago that her home contains tainted Chinese drywall, she’s been concerned about the possible health problems she and her husband could be exposed to.
Chinese drywall
Certain Chinese-made wallboard installed in thousands of Florida homes between 2000 and 2008 has been found to emit sulfuric odors and gases responsible for corroding electrical wiring, air conditioning components, bathroom fixtures such as toilet handles and even jewelry.
She’s been working to move out of her home in Frenchman’s Reserve into a rental house, and is dealing with the question of how to pay to fix her drywall.
And now, after reading a Los Angeles Times news article about tainted drywall, she has yet another worry: the possibility that a radioactive substance may be contained in her walls.
On Sunday, the Times ran an investigative piece that - citing customs reports and interviews with Chinese experts - indicated that a number of Chinese manufacturers and trading firms shipped drywall to the United States in 2006 that was made with a radioactive phosphorous byproduct .
“When I read about that, I was very scared,” Wachter said. “As a person reading the word ‘radioactive,’ who’s living in that situation, you’re horrified. … I’m already afraid of the health consequences.”
The waste byproduct, called phosphogypsum, comes from processing phosphate rock for fertilizer.
According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Web site, the leftover phosphogypsum has limited economic or environmental value, and contains high levels of uranium and radium-226.
Prolonged exposure to the radium has been linked to a higher risk of lung cancer, which is why the EPA banned the use of phosphogypsum in construction in 1989.
There’s no need to travel to China to get the stuff.. and don’t tell here about this or she’ll probably have a cow..
“…However, the marine-deposited phosphate ore from central Florida is highly radioactive, and as such, the phosphogypsum by-product is too radioactive to be used for most applications. As a result, there are about 1 billion tons of phosphogypsum stacked in 25 stacks in Florida (22 are in central Florida) and about 30 million new tons are generated each year..”
wiki - “phosphogypsum”
——————————
“..On June 15, 1994 ” a 15-story-deep sinkhole opened up in an 80 million-ton pile of phosphogypsum waste — known as a gypsum stack — at IMC-Agrico’s New Wales plant. The hole could be as big as 2 million cubic feet, enough to swallow 400 railroad boxcars. Local wags call it Disney World’s newest attraction — “Journey to the Center of the Earth” — but there’s nothing amusing about it. The cave-in dumped 4 million to 6 million cubic feet of toxic and radioactive gypsum and waste water into the Floridan aquifer, which provides 90 percent of the state’s drinking water….”
nice photo on the page..
http://www.fluoridealert.org/phosphate/sinkhole.htm
Cancer Cluster Prompts Fed Investigation
At Least Seven Children In South Florida Have Brain Tumors
POSTED: Thursday, June 25, 2009
UPDATED: 11:29 am EDT June 25, 2009
Senator Bill Nelson called for federal investigation in South Florida.
WASHINGTON, D.C. — Reports of children turning up with brain tumors in a small part of South Florida spurred U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson Thursday to call for an immediate federal investigation.
Nelson sent a letter this morning to the Obama administration requesting an investigation of reports about a cancer cluster in a small community in Palm Beach County.
In his letter to the heads of the Centers for Disease Control and the Environmental Protection Agency, Nelson requested they coordinate with Florida’s health agency to look into any possible causes.
“The residents there are calling for an aggressive investigation,” Nelson wrote. “If one of us was living through the agony of seeing our child suffer from a brain tumor, we’d be doing likewise. That’s why I implore your agencies to investigate.”
At least seven mothers who live in very close proximity to each other in a Palm Beach County community have children who have developed brain tumors, according to recent published and broadcast accounts. They live in houses reportedly fed by well water.
Reminds me of the show I saw at Radioactive City Music Hall.
QB Steve McNair’s death had an SUV and real estate angle.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/07/08/mcnair.ap/index.html
Evidently his waitress mistress had a rent that was doubling and was making payments on two cars because she couldn’t sell the first after she got the Escalade. So this being America, she bought a gun and shot someone, and then killed herself.
I’ll bet the landlord, in order to fill that vacancy unit, will be getting half the rent not double.
I wonder how many stories there will be out there that do not involve celebs, as this thing drags on? You have the share of the population that is violently nuts, and the share that is financially screwed. The former is constant, the latter is soaring. The overlap?
Flashbacks of Phil Hartman (minus the cheating since Phil was gunned down by his wife). As a male celeb you really need to be careful who you get mixed up with.
For you SFBayArea folks…some amusing advice from a East Bay realtor’s blog (Doug Buenz at “the680blog”):
Q: I entered into a contract to sell my house a couple of weeks ago. Because the market is slow, I ended up taking a lot less for my house than I was planning on. Now the buyers have had inspections, and they want me to credit them $3500 for repairs, most of which are complete B.S. I am really mad about this. Should I tell them to take a hike?
A: Fred, take a deep breath and relax. In some ways this market can be called “Revenge of the Buyers”. Remember 4 or 5 years ago when Sellers told buyers things like “take it or leave it” or “don’t ask for anything to be fixed… we have 2 other buyers who want it”. Now the tables have turned. Don’t get hung up on the details of what the buyer wants. Some may be legit, and some might be categorized as outright extortion. But so what. If you want to sell you house, swallow hard and sign it. If you think you can do better in this market, tell them no. It is really that simple. But tread carefully, because working with buyers today is a little like trying to feed a squirrel. They don’t really trust you, they are skittish, and at the first sign of trouble they go scampering for the woods. If you refuse the $3500, it could end up costing you $5000, $10,000, or even $20,000 more to get the next buyer in contract.
Love the “feed a squirrel” reference!!
Railyard developer faces disputes with ex-partner, Sacramento officials
By Dale Kasler and Tony Bizjak
dkasler@sacbee.com
Published: Wednesday, Jul. 8, 2009 - 1:52 am | Page 1A
Last Modified: Wednesday, Jul. 8, 2009 - 8:29 am
Barely two months after starting the face-lift of Sacramento’s downtown railyard, developer Thomas Enterprises Inc. has been sued for millions of dollars by its former partners and faces an awkward financial standoff with city officials.
http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2008326.html
They’ve been trying to figure out what to do with the Railyard forever. Now that we are in a down cycle, it’s probably going to sit vacant for another 20 years.
A few years back they wanted to build a new stadium there for the Sacramento Kings. Owners of the Kings wanted taxpayers to kick in. City officials wanted city residence to pay a portion also. The new arena would have been surrounded by upscale condominiums and retail. Thank goodness it never happened.
Kings should move to Las Vegas. Professional sports teams don’t add much value to a city. At least not this one. Everyone who attends games lives outside the city limits and drive home after the game. They don’t stay in icky downtown to shop and dine.
Going to post this tomorrow morning, but figured I’d post tonight as well for the night-owls.
Version 1.3 of the Joshua Tree Extension is available: http://home.avvanta.com/~drumminj/joshuatree.html
There really aren’t functional changes over 1.2, however, the dependence on cookies has been removed (it uses a different mechanism to keep track of the new comments). I’d urge all of those using the extension to upgrade to this version to knock Ben’s bandwidth bill down a few pennies (the cookies get sent to the server every time you load a page from thehousingbubbleblog.com).
For those not familiar with the JT Extension….it’s a nifty little add-on to Firefox web browser for navigating this web site. You can find details at the link above.
YOU da man drummin…………….thank you
Nancy Pelosi was telling the truth.
Six Democrats on the U.S. House Intelligence Committee said the head of the CIA admitted the agency misled Congress since 2001 about “significant actions.”
In a letter to CIA Director Leon Panetta, the six members said he had “recently” testified that “top CIA officials have concealed significant actions from all members of Congress” and “misled members” from 2001 until this week.
I guess Fox News will have to apologize for wrongly attacking her almost daily. Yeah, right!