The Housing Bubble

Great Arizona

How about those polio and small pox vacines - did you take those?

Polio and smallpox, yes. Flu, never.

SanFranciscoBayAreaGal-
Me too. I faint at other people’s blood tests while watching. One day my husband stabbed himself accidently in his hand, and I passed out. He had to control the bleeding while peeling me off the floor. I was ghost white, he said.

Wow. Perhaps we should stick to housing on the HBB.

I like the little Rhiza Labs embed maps at the bottom of the main page, but I’m a bit miffed that they haven’t updated them since June 23rd.

I’m a medical stats nerd - I like my data fresh!

Well, pooh-poohing the swine flu (also known as Type-A or the “Novel Flu”) or not, we’ve had a number of people die from it in our ICU’s. We’ve been getting cases flown in from out-of-state due to the fact that we have something called ECMO (Extracorporeal Membrane Oxygenation), which is evidently a step beyond the regular ventilator. If you’re on ECMO, that’s right next to dying. Some very high-quality, young to younger people have been lost. I wouldn’t be too sanguine about the effects of this flu. It’s like a family has it, one little baby gets the sniffles, and then dad or mom get it and they’re dead in a few days. Sad.

Lost-
John Melloncamp’s new “album” is centered around mortality. I don’t follow him, but NPR has a good recent interview. You should give the 39 minutes a listen. btw, he use to have the same Manager as David Bowie, who inserted the “Cougar”. John didn’t like it. His granny story was endearing.

I know, but when someone gives me the business because they feel “a little out of sorts”, they get some of the business back from me In some ways, life is a spitting (nice way to put it) match.

Soo…..A shack in Carmel hasn’t appreciated in the last 50 or so years ?

I presume you mean Carmel, CA.

Presuming you back out the fraudulent bubble years, I’ll wager that Carmel was flat.

I’ll take that bet.

And???? Put up.

I teach mine to use the toilets. MUCH nicer. Now I’m working on getting them to flush afterwards, too.

The only times I’ve ever seen cat urine become an actual problem is (1) unspayed male cats - they will spray for territoriality, or (2) very very poor sanitation on the part of cat owners (ie, allowing litterboxes to go uncleaned for months).

The typical cat simply does not urinate on walls, carpets, etc.

Almost had to gut an entire house because of that. Fortunately, the subfloor was concrete slab and just replacing the carpet and padding, then spraying the wall footers and concrete fixed the problem.

How bad was it? You could not walk in the front door without a mask. Heck, you could just open the front door and you had to back away.

GEEZ…if i forget to clean the box before i go to bed our little ones used to jump on us in the middle of the night…..

———————————————————-
allowing litterboxes to go uncleaned for months).

Here in the Northeast, because of the heavy month long rains, all the street dogshit is being flushed into the ocean closing beaches and shellfish grounds due to the contamination.

And allllll the way across the lovely US of A to a different coast line we have the EXACT same problem.
Hmmm. I guess lazy as*sh*at pet-owners are everywhere. Like lice and bedbugs.

I was walking my dog at the marina in Olympia, and went to grab a cleanup bag which they are so kind to provide. I stepped in a pile of sh!t less than 3 feet from the dispenser. Some rich SOB with a yacht couldn’t even clean up after his pocket pooch when the freaking bags were within an arms length. Man did that ever piss me off. Not only as a dog owner, but as someone who had to spend 10 minutes cleaning my NEW shoe with random twigs and grass.

But Olygal, dog poops are natural! Just like the mosses!

I have two dogs, and we carry bags around when we walk them so as not to leave a deuce in an area that might wrinkle the local owner’s noses. We clean up our rental yard weekly as well.

When we finally own a house, though, I would love to plant an ivy thicket in the back. My dogs love pooping IN things, and when we had a big ol’ patch of ivy in the back, they’d run back there and have at it. It kept the mess contained and the ivy didn’t seem to mind. In fact, it seemed to thrive. Unfortunately the water company came in and made our landlady move the fence in 20 feet, and now that lovely patch of doggy commode heaven is on the other side of the fence. Pooping in the rose bushes just doesn’t seem to appeal to them as much.

I had a dog that liked to CHEW up the rosebushes. Big ole goofy Golden Retriver girl.

Sorry drummin, i would want 1 months rent $1500 min. as a deposit.

If we were renting the 1st floor and both apartments were rentals, i might reconsider since the dawg would have a yard to poop in and you would pay for that cleanup, instead of for the 40 year old solid oak floors, trim and plaster walls.

This was the home i grew up in, not some cheap stucco box.

“The problem is that most time they’re non-refundable, even if there is no damage”

Thank god that’s against the law in CA.

Sorry to say, but irresponsible dog owners are becoming a huge problem in the United States and elsewhere. The reasons for this are many, and, if you want to get up to speed, take a look at:

1. http://barkingdogs.net
2. http://dogsbite.org
3. http://dogbitelaw.com

One of the common “side effects” of irresponsible dog ownership is incessant barking. If you’ve ever experienced this, you know what kind of living hell it creates for a neighborhood.

I sure do. When smy neighbors’ dogs get going, there’s no place in my house where I can escape the noise. And, yes, I’ve tried turning up the music, wearing earplugs and earmuffs, talking to the dog owners, reporting them to Animal Care, etc.

Fortunately, I live in a county where something’s being done about this problem. Our dog barking logs are getting a major toughening up. Stay tuned for further details soon.

I like dogs. I hate dog owners. This city has so many stupid dog owners that it is not funny. I hate to lump the 10% of good owners in with the bad 90% but that is the way I’m calling it. I make no apologies to Paris and her little chihuahua.

I don’t get when owners leave the dogs out to bark all day/night. Don’t they hear it themselves? Or do they just have a magical dog-owner ability to tune it all out?

And yeah, the renters with the multiple BIG dogs. I don’t get it. I did defense of renters as an intern and it was embarrassing how so many kids come to town to go to the university, rent a one-room shack and immediately go out and get a couple dogs. One to keep the other company of course. Stooopid.

Even stoopider is how many beggars have dogs. Seriously, every single homeless person wandering around downtown Olympia seems to have a medium sized dog with them.
I’m thinking: ‘Wha…? You can’t even take care of yourself, so you go get a dog?!’

Boy is this a sore subject. I’m probably the only renter tucked in a mother-in-law detached unit on a owner occupied street. My neighbors are likable and we all keep to ourselves.

BUT, there seems to be a dog in every yard and the one next to me will bark for hours upon hours. One dog down the alley was let out to roam the back and in the winter would poop in front of my garage entrance.

These people have money and could take their dog to obedience school.

Oly, It’s for protection more than anything. Living on the street is dangerous. A dog ensures no one will bother you if you are trying to sleep outdoors.

Homeless will steal from each other. A transient told me he had his shoes taken off his feet by a thug while he was sleeping and this was a 17 y.o. kid living on the street. Sad.

Our dogs would bark and bother our neighbors when we first got them. After a couple of days we got one of these and it was the best thing we ever could have done. We no longer need to use it for our dogs, but we got new neighbors a couple of months ago and their dog barked non stop 24/7 so we mounted it to a tree near the fence that divides our yard and it did the trick! No more barking, well for the most part. They still bark if there is someone in the alley going through the trash cans or something, but I have no problem with them barking if there is actually something to bark at. Seriously the best $90 we ever spent.

http://www.ultimatebarkcontrol.com/ds_pro.htm

Thanks for the suggestion So Cal.

Only problem with the bark control devices is that you have to have a direct line of sight to the dog. Which means that the dog that’s on the other side of your boundary wall won’t be affected.

“Even stoopider is how many beggars have dogs”

There was a “work for food” guy at the North Lake exit ramp on 95 who always had a dog with him. He easily did twice the buisness a dogless work for food guy would.

I’m surprised they haven’t figured out a way to “tax” credit scores to level the playing field.

Everyone could have the same FICO, I suggest 666.

“…they haven’t figured out a way to “tax” credit scores to level the playing field…”

That is (implicitly) what supports govt-sponsored programs to qualify low credit score homebuyers for zero-down / low-interest / default-guaranteed lending (think Fannie / Freddie / FHA loans). This represents Subprime Sam’s attempt to artificially replace the defunct private sector subprime mortgage securitization sump pump. If those in a lower credit score group qualify for such programs and you do not, then you are implicitly bearing a wealth-transfer tax to help them join the Ownership Society.

“I am not sure at that point if paying off debt or stuffing hundred dollar bills under the matress would be smarter??”

Who can afford a mattress? You guys sure live high on that hog.

Your point is taken — good credit scores only matter if you are relatively free of debt and have a reliable source of wealth and/or income to back it up going forward.

1-800 mattress leave off the last S for Savings
filed for BK, and Sleepy’s bought the carcass

1-800-MATTRESS FOUNDER’S WIFE MURDERED
SON CHARGED IN SLAYING

Posted: 6:26 pm
May 13, 2009

The wife of the millionaire founder of 1-800-Mattress was discovered dead in her Long Island home yesterday and her son was charged with murdering her, authorities said.

Kay Barragan, 65, who loaned her husband $2,000 in 1976 to start the bedding business, was found at the bottom of a flight of stairs at her Searingtown home about 7 a.m.

Neighbors saw her son Eduardo — handcuffed and wearing a robe — being led away by police a short time later.

Cops wasted little time in charging Eduardo with her murder. A spokesman for the firm said he had “a history of mental incapacity.” Kay Barragan had been suffering from several illnesses, he said.

The home belongs to Kay and Napoleon Barragan, the South American-born bedding magnate who turned 1-800-Mattress into a $170-million-a-year business.

The firm went into bankruptcy in March after a steep drop in sales, and was expected to be sold to its rival, Sleepy’s.

The Barragan home has been on the market for two months, at a price of $779,000.

Napoelon Barragan, who founded his firm in Queens in 1976, has been named one of 100 most powerful minority businessmen by Crain’s New York Business.

Another son, Luis Barragan of Queens, was president of the company when he died of accidental drowning in Connecticut in 2006.

When I was younger, my credit SUCKED. Once I came into the military and started cleaning it up, I never realized how this little score can make your life much easier. Now I am sub 700’s and trying to save every dime. I think it just comes with age. Now scores will suck for older people who tried to gamble with this market. Right now I have two car payments on cars I really wanted and am extremely satisfied with. Once I pay them off in a couple of years, we may look into buying a house, otherwise, it’s base housing for me!

I noticed ALOT of tightwads on this blog. I am learning alot from you guys and I appreciate it all! I’m not ready to drive 10 yr old cars yet, but I’m getting there!!!

Yes, my husband & I have discussed the possibility that having a poor credit score may matter much less in the future also. Hard to know which way to jump but we’re preserving ours as ususal.

“…the possibility that having a poor credit score may matter much less in the future also…”

When many have poor credit scores, it should become easier for any such individual to qualify for a future loan than it would be if they were part of a small minority (similar to the effect of widespread unemployment on future job prospects for an unemployed individual). However, unless the rules of the game are rigged to screw the financially prudent, having a better credit score should still confer an advantage in the market for loanable funds.

Your point is taken — good credit scores only matter if you are relatively free of debt and have a reliable source of wealth and/or income to back it up going forward.

The irony is that generally people who have the best credit scores are the people who don’t *need* credit as much.

That, however, is as it should be.

You know, when you drive a 10 year old car, you don’t have to worry someone parking too close and door dinging you.

I was part of a class action that resulted in free credit monitoring for a year. Knowing your FICO is important in negotiations. I don’t like being a bully, but when I bought my last car I was a bully, and the guy could easily see I wasn’t playing because of my FICO. When it becomes clear that they need you more then you need them, you’ve basically already won, IMHO.

I may leverage this again when it comes time to buy a house, but the goal is cash anyway. I absolutely hate debt.

I don’t like being a bully, but when I bought my last car I was a bully, and the guy could easily see I wasn’t playing because of my FICO.

Nobody deserves it like a car salesman.

I noticed ALOT of tightwads on this blog.

You don’t know tight ’til you meet Old Bean. (my SO)

If the economy depended on citizens such as himself, well, we’d all be on the barter system. The odd thing is, I’m coming around to his ways…not exactly trolling the streets on trash night yet, however I am beginning to appreciate the value of living frugally.

(It doesn’t hurt that his stories of losing out to professional bargain hunters at Goodwill keep me in stitches.)

What? You’ve never trolled the streets for trash? Well, what are you waiting for? Right here in this-here studio, I have a trashcan and a bookshelf that were someone else’s trash. Now they’re my treasures.

I don’t understand why my credit score matters at all. I expect to live for the rest of my life on my current savings, perfectly-performing mortgages, and whatever SS pays me when I get around to claiming it. This scheme could go awry, e.g., hyperinflation could dissolve the value of my savings, but if I don’t plan to borrow and I don’t plan to get a job, WTF does my credit score matter? Merrill Lynch credit card pays itself off every month directly out of brokerage account funds.

I have long suspected that this blog is heavily populated by “deadbeats.”

I’m a deadbeat who doesn’t carry a ballance.

+1 Agreed. No revolving balance for years.

Oh, Ben Stein’s version of “deadbeat”! LOL.

One thing people are over looking is the fact that just b/c you have a great fico doesn’t mean the world will fall over w/ it’s legs up in the air! You -still- have to negotiate and drive a HARD bargain.

Also, fico doesn’t necessarily imply intelligence? Look at all the people w/ very nice scores that wound up w/ subprime loans just b/c some slimey MB talked them into it? FICO is a f-r-a-g-i-l-e thing and it can take years… to build up, only to be whisked away in a matter of weeks.

I certainly hope that one of the lessons that lenders have learned from this debacle is that a good FICO score is no substitute for looking at the collateral (getting an accurate appraisal) and capacity (income) of prospective borrowers.

I’m a happy little “deadbeat” renter that doesn’t owe anybody a thing other than my monthly normal household maintenance expense bills. My median FICO score was over 820.

“At Mikey Barney, we make money the old fashioned way, I SAVE it”

“Got CASH?”

Jim A,

+2 ( on -both- posts )

At age 50, the ‘last’ thing I want to do is run up more debt. We now have people w/ 750+ scores sending in jingle mail. In addition to the “capacity” obviously lenders didn’t look very hard at the “quality” either?

Look how many realtors were able to fluff up their scores w/ “income” ( and careers ) that ’should’ have been identified as an anomaly at best?

Those without debt are likely to have a low FICO score. Those with lots of debt that pay their bills on time are likely to have a high score.

We should work to take power away from the FICO system. Not empower them.

VaBeyatch!

Perhaps… this is the tone and approach I ’should’ have taken? I fully realized when you take the stance of “Having a good credit score is a total waste of time, money and effort” that it would be met w/ resistance.

A lot of people that ‘think’ they have great credit ( because they “don’t own a dime” ) can be in for a rude awakening when they actually ‘do’ apply for credit.

So rather than being ‘given’ ( credit ) for having lived for so long without* it, we penalize them and treat them like this is “their initiation”. Wink, wink.

You do want to keep an eye on your credit score since it can be used when pricing insurance.

Oh, and I am curious to see what will happen going forward with so many credit scores crashing. May be that various regulatory entities put an end to credit score when pricing insurance.

Mrs. Wheezer,

We should ‘all’ be curious? We keep referring to fico like it’s written in stone. When the avg. score becomes a 520, then having a 560 will be considered “good”.

Even though I shop every year, I’ve been w/ the same ins. co. for years. During that time I’m sure my score has fluctuated. Yet my bill has remained constant. I’ve no idea if or ‘when’ they’ve ever pulled my credit?

DinOR - Yes, we should all be curious.

I have no idea what every ins. co does. I don’t even know what every state permits. Texas does require that the ins co let you know if your score was used in any way.
I suspect that the score is typically pinged when you first submit your application and not at renewal.

My (poorly stated) point is that the credit score finds its way into all sorts of unexpected avenues. It does pay to keep an eye on it since the blasted thing is so prone to error and frequent change.

Mrs. Wheezer,

No I think you said it just fine, and “pinged” sounds about right.

I just find it incredible ( although the pessimism has been ’somewhat’ subdued of late ) that after at least two solid years of financial “End Times” posts, that anyone would be concerned about FICO scores? Their’s or anyone else’s..?

Let’s see, our currency will be worthless, gold will be @ $5,000, our government will collapse and people will be eating out garbage cans ( but “I’ll” have a really spiffy FICO Score! )

I guess it’s the (1) thing that will survive into our brave new world. It’s never made any sense to me?

Well, Din, just in case your worst-case scenario doesn’t happen, I would still like to have a good Fico. For one thing, the worst tenant we ever had was a Ph.D. college professor with a great job (department head) but with a lower Fico. We took a chance on him and he and his lousy kids did soooooo much damage. Thousands. Yikes. I am speaking of NAILING curtains to the wall. Yes, the best and quickest way to hang curtains.

Silverback1011,

Oh it’s hardly ‘my’ worst case scenario ( and sometimes my suggestions stem from comments made elsewhere ) but we’ve had more… than our share of UGD ( Ultimate Doom & Gloom ) comments here.

Sometimes it’s as if we’re trying to “out bear” one another? It’s beyond me how anyone that’s predicting ( read praying ) for The End Of The World would give 2 rips about credit scores?

So there’s this huge disconnect. Like survivalists perfectly prepared to be holed up in a bunker for years on end in isolation ( but nervously waiting to see how the Final Season of “Lost” turns out? )

neither of which I plan to do soon anyway.

Unfortunately, you’re not always in control of that (at least the latter of the two).

I doubt a FICO “likely won’t matter at all” perhaps they will verify income and look at income more, but FICO actually does a very good job allowing them to manage and price risk. It is not perfect as we learned with Moody’s, S&P and the the rest of the “rating” agencies, but to say what you said is just too much of an overstatement and nonsense.

“too much of an overstatement and nonsense”

We’ll see. I just hope everyone here still thinks it was worth it to jump through hoops to make sure everything was paid on time/in full month after month when it saves them a whopping 1/4 pt. on their loan?

If anything ( as already noted above ) many FB’s w/ decimated credit are being given loan mods below market rate just to min. the jingle mail. So I’d say it’s already happening.

Again we’re all leaning on this notion that we’ll be so amply rewarded for our prudence and patience that we’re heavily invested in thinking we ( and we -alone- ) will have the only dry powder left to bid on the properties of our chosing.

“Again we’re all leaning on this notion that we’ll be so amply rewarded for our prudence and patience that we’re heavily invested in thinking we ( and we -alone- ) will have the only dry powder left to bid on the properties of our chosing.”

Yup, I’ve *sighed* over this before, and I know what Ben will say (Hell, go buy two!) but so far there has been no pay-off to my strategy.

Muggy,

I’m just trying to temper expectations. Hey, in ‘05/’06 I was riding high thinking I would be able to swoop down and cash in on this thing… BayBee ( only to be completely crushed when me ( and my excellent fico ) wound up circling the drain w/ everyone… else ) ?

There’s nothing ‘wrong’ w/ having a good score AND being a good citizen. I never said that. But that alone can’t overcome the inertia of what’s happening on a global level. Like we always say, What if the Chinese cut us off altogether?

You do make some salient points, Din, I have to admit.

their= Long time no type Oly.

Yeah, well, the crack probably makes your hands all twitchy-like.

Sheesh…Times must be tough were you are ATE-UP.

I even try keep my traffic ticket lawyer busy enough so even he… can enjoy a little Cocaine.

Good job mikey! Yeah, times are tough!

Ya Bud, Greg

Hey mikey, I have been clean 16 years sometime this October. I miss my wife.

I even try keep my traffic ticket lawyer busy enough so even he… can enjoy a little Cocaine.

Oh my, how thoughtful of you.
Yes, that’s us HBBers—a solicitous and considerate bunch.

Hey mikey, I have been clean 16 years sometime this October. I miss my wife.

Some might consider that a bit of a non sequitur. But this IS the bits bucket, and we all know that HBBers are skilled at the stream-of-consciousness sort of writing.

alblum+=guage

math check time!

I’ve heard that the deal is:

10% of the purchase price, up to $8,000, and take the lower of the two figures. So, unless you’re buying an $800,000 house, sorry, Charlie, no $8,000 federal tax credit.

Math check indeed. Where did you two go to school? Or are you hitting the beer tap a bit early today?

Hey CincyDad, sounds like a decent deal. Not that I’m a fan of these handouts like the house purchase credit, but if they’re there, why not use ‘em.

And once the monthly cost of ownership gets down below the cost of renting, then you’re talking a decent time to buy a house. Perfect time? maybe not, and you’ll probably hear people say “Wait, not yet!”. But if it’s bigger than her old place, closer to her job, and closer to fun stuff in the city, she made the right move.

Now let’s just hope she enjoys doing home repairs.

AZ Slim-

yes, by all means recheck your math…

10% of $800,000 is $80,000.

10% of $80,000 is $8,000

Please don’t think like the gubmint (”…we’ll just and a zero or two and call it a day, ok?”)

Ooops! My bad.

I’m heading to the board at the back of the class, where I will write $80,000 x .10 = $8,000 100 times.

Buy (tongue in cheek), $ 8,000 times 100 = $ 800,000, so you were right all of the time, Slim. (See above post).

Ooooppssss.

Think I meant 1%.

Someone quoted the terms here a while back and as I recall, you had to buy an $800,000 house in order to receive the entire tax credit.

Anyone know for sure?

we’re getting the credit, and it is a full $8000 … and we did not buy an $800K house

It just means that , if you buy a $50K house, and 10% of that is $5000, you can’t get $8000 …

Prices are indeed getting near normal in many areas - but being that inventories are still sky-high, and foreclosures are still going way up - these prices will be going down below historical norms

Will incomes stay above historic norms? I’m thinking “no” if we take the past 15 years as historic norms. Incomes are dropping like led zeppelins. Many are just buying their stairway to financial heaven.

Dropping like the flaming Hinderburg perhaps?

“Oh the humanity!”

Hey potential, I owe you an apology. Therefore, I apologize.

ATE-UP

potential buyer,

Had they been current on their payments, likely the home wouldn’t have wound up needing to be short sold. Typically… But I see your point, I’d go so far as to say “If the owners were making ’some’ kind of payment”.

But mortgages aren’t written that way. There just isn’t a fallback position whatsoever. If your PITI is a grand and you send ( or sent ) in $999, it’s no dice. Of course now the lender is more than amenable to “working things out”.

I thought a short sale stayed for 7 years and a foreclosure for 10. Maybe they’re talking about the amount of time before a new bank will begin to consider you for a new loan (with higher rate)?

A short sale definitely hurts you though.

From About dot kom:

Foreclosure or Deed-in-Lieu of Foreclosure
Steep says a seller who wants to buy another home after foreclosure will end up waiting about 24 to 72 months before a lender will offer any kind of interest rate that makes sense.
Coy says, “The good news is a short sale will allow the consumer to obtain an institutional loan for a new home within two years”.

Short Sale
Some agents say the good news for short sale sellers is the wait is much shorter before buying another home, and Fannie Mae guidelines in 2008 adopted new procedures.
Can a seller buy again in less than two years? Not really, says Coy, “It’s an utter myth that a consumer ‘can buy again in about 18 months at a good interest rate.’ However, Fannie Mae guidelines now require only 24 months’ seasoning, and that’s good news for agents who specialize in short sales.”

Note that Fannie Mae guidelines allow a seller to immediately apply for a new loan to buy another home if that seller kept the payments current, had no delinquencies exceeding 30 days and did not agree to repay the debt relief. Moreover, it’s the late payments that affect your credit report, not the short sale.

Why wouldn’t a short sale destroy somebody’s credit? I think it should. That person signed a mortgage to pay the entire amount of the mortgage. The short sale proved that they could not hold up their end of the contract. That seems like a major event to me.

Let us not also forget that this is a form of income and is now being forgiven. That’s another strike. In closing, a short sale should be a huge knock on somebody’s credit. It’s time for adults to act, and be treated, like adults.

Here is what FICO says about short sales:

http://www.myfico.com/CreditEducation/Questions/foreclosure-alternatives-fico-score.aspx

There are people that are able to negotiate a short sale while still making their payments. There are other reason besides just financial hardship for a sale of a home, ie job relocation etc. Also, if your payments are going to adjust upward or already have adjusted upward and you are hanging on by a thread and can just barely manage to make your payments the bank may consider a short sale. Better to sell now then wait until the borrower defaults, because if the are asking for a short sale, then the banks would have to be stupid not to realize that if they aren’t able to sell short they are probably going to just send in the keys. IF you are able to manage a short sale while still maintaining current on your mortgage then the impact to your credit score can be minimal. I saw a credit report where it only affected the score less than 50 pts! I was really surprised as I think the damage should be greater.

+1

The reality with most lenders is that for them to approve a short sale, you would have to be behind on the payments. They would not even consider a short sale otherwise. Being behind on the payments would ding one’s credit.

I kind of imagined the steed crossed with a kindly Black Beauty, so that it would have scary read eyes that gleamed at night, but would like me and let me ride it.

HAhahahah! Exactly! That’s so funny…
Sigh. Mostly all our horses were brown or buckskin with white patches spotted unartistically on them, and poo-dingles, with pragmatic dispositions. Great horses, understand, but not creatively inclined.
The Headless Horseman would have surveyed them all with displeasure and then stamped off in a snit and gone got hisself a giraffe to ride, or something.

He probably would have thrown a flaming pumpkin into your haystack, I suppose. Sounds like you had some Apps. Sounds nice, though. I only had a very reliable collie and my imagination to go galloping thru the meadows of my childhood home. Well, they were cornfields, really.

Oh, yes? And how’s your head?

Hi Oly Gal!

Oly, what standing do you have, asking anything about where my head is?

“drunk reply awaits drunk reply”; tic, tic, ad infinitum…

infinitum= whatever. I think, it is infinitium, right? (Already wore (Hell!! how do you spell wore too?) out the guage gig. Time to go nighty night.

Night Oly.

We had an adventures like that when I was a kid.

My older brother hated horses and they hated him. He could have taken my little sisters mellow cutting pony but he decided to saddle up and steal my big black quarterhorse/Morgan cross mare to shoot jack rabbits with the lever action. This guy wasn’t exactly Matt Dillion but he tricked her out with my saddlebags, scabbard and the Marlin anyway. I was working on fenceposts when he did this.

Big Midnight was once the posse horse of the Bear Bear, CA sheriff but she dumped him out in the desert/mountains once too often so my Dad bought her quick n’ cheap before he shot her.

Things went well until my brother kicked her to cross the Mojave River. Midnight hated wet things except to drink. This was also the crossing where I usually opened her up for her race home to her barn. That horse was a good one and oh boy…she could run ! The fun part was my brother couldn’t ride a horse and she KNEW it.

My little sis and I could see them a’coming with Midnight lathered up, going full-bore and stretching for more. Forget him riding her, that part was over and this was all survival mode. This was the fastest, most agile big horse I ever owned. He was holding on for dear life with stirrups, mane and the little mex saddlehorn trying to scream and her with complete free rein. My sis n’ I where kinda the wannabe rodeo nut people of the family and this was some pretty amazing $hit coming our way.

She badly clipped his left kneecap with fencepost on her hairpin turn, bashed his head and almost decapitated him as she charged into the barn and stopped as nothing had happened. She looked happy, proud and far from winded.

He was hurt, angry and very dangerous at this time so I desided cool my horse down with a walk back towards the river and retrieve my bags, scabbord and rifle as ALL of the above were far more important to me than my ijjit brother. My sis dumped him into the truck and drove him home as she wasn’t old enough to drive to the hospital herself. I had chores and the more intelligent animals to care for.

My little sister is an Olygal on steriods and she retold the entire story in her best pantomime fashion to my folks that night and ended by calling him Ichobod Crane. My horse and I laid low for a while. To the best of our knowledge, dear brother has never thrown a blanket, must less a leg, over a live horse again. My little sister on the other hand, has helped put on a great little rodeo for nearly 30 years

Now, that’s a saga, Mikey. Morgans are very, very agile indeed, and of course, QH’s can cut around on a dime, so I’ll bet she could move. If your brother didn’t know enough to duck his head down as she was approaching the barn at full bore, he had no business being on the animal whatsoever. That’s pretty basic horsey knowledge.

Yeah, my older brother was always doing stupid things.

My little sister and I still just keep him around for his “pure entertainment value”

“Just in case nukular power plants come back into vogue,”

They’re trying, they’re trying hard. There was some PR fluff piece on TV about nukular the other night. And of course they always point to France as a huge success story.

“They’re trying, they’re trying hard.”

The big problem, IMHO, is the potential for a coalition of politicians and nukular power providers to transfer legacy nukular waste cleanup costs to a later generation in exchange for higher current profitability, some of which can be diverted to fund campaign contributions.

Forward-looking policy would build provision for such cleanup costs into industrial licensing fee structure, rather than allowing the owners of industrial operations to profit by shifting cleanup costs onto the next generation.

Guess you missed the recent news articles. There are funds for just that actually. However 3 weeks ago there was news from the NRC that six of the utilities have shortfalls in those funds, due to poor performance. Link to follow.

link

The funds total $41B, for taking the plants out of service and razing them. Not sure about the details of handling the waste and such - e.g. if the funds include some for transportation and/or storage.

FWIW - I worked at a nuke power plant for a few months in college, as an intern. I’m certainly no expert, though I know more than most people. As such - I’m very much less scared of nuclear energy than most people (as a general statement).

“Guess you missed the recent news articles.”

True. Glad (and surprised) to learn someone has thought about this issue up front.

“FWIW - I worked at a nuke power plant for a few months in college, as an intern. I’m certainly no expert, though I know more than most people. As such - I’m very much less scared of nuclear energy than most people (as a general statement).”

IMHO, I’m no expert either and I wan’t running nuke plants but somewhere in my background resume, I have an old BS in Industial Safety and Hygiene /with divisional adminstrator experience that says your words are either too bold or too trusting on this one.

Radiation, whether contained in a plant, a US Military Device or an old concrete sealed barrel marked: ” From Con Edison, with Love FOREVER, from the Indian, Point Boyz” certainly scares the $hit out of ME!!

But then, the USAF accidently dropped two live Mark 38 2.4 megaton nukes 6 1/2 miles from my house when I was a child, so I tend to be a little nervous about accidents, experts, radiation and and all that radiation sort of stuff.

..sorry about the errors, I was ‘nuking” a sandwich in the microwave

PB, I usually enjoy your informed and reasoned postings, but I really think you’re off-base on this one. In my younger days, I worked in the nuclear power business (although I’ve been in chips for the last 13 years or so), and commercial US plants are, by and large, well-run, clean, and safe (as has been well-documented, defense-run facilities are another matter). There are no Simpson’s-style 3-eyed fish swimming around the cooling ponds, there are no rusting, leaky, barrels oozing green glowing slime in the ground. Yes, of course there needs to be cleanup at the time of decommissioning, and yes, it will be expensive, and yes, those costs should be (maybe are) baked into the cost of providing the power. But the ominous specter of supefund sites all over the country strikes me as ill-informed fear-mongering. Just MHO, of course, but formed through education and boots-on-the-ground direct observations from multiple US power plants. Now, (hopefully?) back to your regularly-schedule programming on the deflating housing bubble…

Not saying that radiation isn’t dangerous by any stretch. But when confronted with stats on the following, most people would be quite shocked:

A. Radiation levels in/near nuclear plants vs. other areas. E.g. it’s not good to put idea to put nuclear plants right next to conventional plants (e.g. coal), because the radiation sensors at the nuclear plant are so sensitive that sometimes radiation from the neighboring conventional plant will set off the nuclear plant’s sensors; this happens. Also it’s worth noting that there are no nuclear plants in mountainous regions of the U.S. - not because of ground instability (there *are* nuke plants in earthquake zones in CA), but because the radiation from the sun at higher elevations is such as to cause the same problem - it’s too high relative to the tolerance of detectors at the plant. That illustrates the sensitivity level of detection systems (which is what I worked on when there - RMS = Radiation Monitoring System).

B. The amount of accidents and deaths related to nuclear power compared with conventional power (coal mine disasters, oil drilling disasters, hydroelectric dam disasters, etc.). I haven’t looked at stats in a while, but it’s not even close with regard to accidents and deaths per MW hour produced. FWIW - this isn’t necessarily because nuclear is inherently safer, but just because it gets way more attention and thus way more effort/money is spent to make it safer. As such - if the same safety standards were applied to nuclear as are applied to conventional power (or vice versa) - nuclear would be *way* cheaper.

(p.s. that response directed to mikey)

As one who has lived near a number of superfund sites (Moab, UT which is currently in cleanup progress, Rifle, CO, Grand Junction, CO, which I worked as a land surveyor on), as well as communities with over the top cancer rates and that also have nuclear wastes (Monticello, UT, Green RIver, UT), I respectfully think there’s no fear-mongering at all, if anything, it’s the opposite. Ask the Navajo how they feel about it. Uranium mining waste has devastated their health.

Granted, you’re talking about the powerplant sites themselves, but what about the tailings from the uranium mines that feed those plants? Come on out for a tour and you’ll be shocked at what I can show you. Most people are totally unaware of the devastation. Uranium tailings have more radioactivity than the product taken from them. The town of Moab has tailings blown all over it, as a mill once set upwind at the edge of town, heck they used to pave the streets with tailings. Moab ahs a higher than normal rate of MS and leukemia. The city tourism goons actually had the nerve to contact all the tour businesses and tell them to downplay this and not tell anyone what the tailings removal was all about, as it’s now very visible (trucks and trains) where it was just a big pile before. This is the real problem with nuclear, otherwise I’d be all for it.

sorry about the errors, I was ‘nuking” a sandwich in the microwave.

What KIND of sandwich? Jeeze, man, you left out the importantest detail!

It was really dessert - yellowcake.

OK, maybe he was having an Atomic Burger with carnotite mustard and radon ketchup and gamma ray pickles, with fission fries…

Thx for the info Lost. One thing I’ve always wanted to spend more time studying is actual mining side. We do tend to assume that nuclear is an unlimited resource, which of course isn’t true, but also we never hear about the impact of the mining. I spent a couple of days in Moab (stayed at Sorrell River Ranch - whoo what a nice place) a couple of years ago, and remember seeing the tailing ponds, and areas that had been mined. It’s a shame given the beauty of the area and the Navajo history as you say.

Of course much of this was for weapons development as well, not just for power.

Yeah…I’m sure that (UTC+3) reactor Number Four at Chernobyl wasn’t built with a fun Major Level 7 International Nuclear Event Scale ACCIDENT in mind, b..b..but IT HAPPEDED!

Take 2 Potassium Iodine(KI) 130 mg tablets QD and call me in the morning… 8-14 days from intial containation.

From Russia…with Love

Yes.. it’s all about priorities. Which of the following takes priority?
a) Food.
b) Extracting some portion of that last 0.00002 percent sulfur content from the gasoline supply lest it poisons the environment.

As long as there’s money to pay for either or both, it’s a toss up.. but when money is tight, almost everyone picks a).

—–
Most people just don’t appreciate what a blessing it is to have the time to spare and wealth to spend on a luxury such as environmentalism. It’s a mistake to take it for granted.

Most people just don’t appreciate what a blessing it is to have the time to spare and wealth to spend on a luxury such as environmentalism. It’s a mistake to take it for granted.

Oh, gosh, testify! I often wonder what those nutters who complain about all those ticky regulations designed to, for instance, protect drinking water would do if they actually lived someplace where those ticky little regulations did not exist. Barf a lot? Die of dysentery? Multi-task and do both?
A friend of mine who works for the WA ports goes to Asia regularly, and he has the most utterly and completely appalling stories of how they do things over there, lacking all those tedious little environmental protection rules. Got vats of incredibly toxic chemical byproducts? Whew—lucky there’s a convenient river nearby. Oh, you say this river is upslope of a village and the only drinking water supply? ….What’s yer point, round-eyes?

*shudder *

Joey:

You present us with a false dichotomy. We are not faced with choosing between food and a healthy environment. On the contrary, if our environment is toxic, then we will have a hard time growing food, finding potable water, and getting our lungs full of the clean air we require.

Oly, this is a very simplistic strawman, you’re acting like everyone just drank toxic sludge all the time before the EPA was created in 1971.

No one objects to rules about drinking water per se, the question is whether the rules exist to serve a bureaucracy, or whether the end consumers actually should and do care about them, enough to pay for their implementation.

Anyone can make rules. Rules themselves are just wishful thinking. But as Joey said, it’s only in economically advanced countries that people have the luxury of observing them consistently.

Big V, sure.. there are some immediately important “environmental” concerns which do affect our daily lives (poisoned food, water, etc) and ignoring them could negatively affect us within the hour. While not being absolute necessities (take a bite and take your chances or starve) the term “luxury” doesn’t apply to them.

OTOH, we spend an awful lot of money on many things that have no connection to our survival, except perhaps in some theorist’s mind. Somewhere down the road we might gain some benefit from all the effort and wealth expended on these… but maybe not.

For instance: It’d be nice to preserve all existing plant and animal species for this and future generations to enjoy and benefit from, even if it means denying ourselves access to and/or the use of huge quantities of vital resources.

But realistically, millions of species have already become extinct and, unbeknownst to us, more disappear everyday. This seems to be the way of nature. Out with the old and in with the new.. But we humans object. We want things to stay the way they are.

Can we force nature to our will? Is it even wise to attempt it? I have my doubts about both. But what the hell.. why not give it a shot? It ain’t like we can’t afford it..

you’re acting like everyone just drank toxic sludge all the time before the EPA was created in 1971.

Well, it’s 2009 and I’ve spent about 3 years now watching developers pull every single sneaky trick in the book trying to install septic systems near or actually WITHIN wetlands, stream corridors, smack dab on the shoreline, and within the neighbors well-head protection buffer.
Perhaps that has tainted my opinions just a tad.

Thanks for the info.

Also most anti-military people are not aware that the U.S. DOD is striving for more and more missile accuracy to avoid collaterol damage. In translation: we do not want to kill innocents. Contrast that to the Taliban, Al Quaeda, and so forth. I worked in the DOD for eleven years and in private industry contracting to the DOD. I know about the goals to target only the enemy.

I call myself a liberal but I’m pro defense.

Are depleted uranium munitions are still being used in Iraq/Afghanistan?

I hope DU does not become the “Agent Orange of the 21st Century”.

“……strictest organizations when it comes to disposal of wastes……..”

Maybe now, but not back in the 40s-60s……everything went into the base dump back then.

And don’t get me started about the floor drains……..three guesses where all that used oil from all those old R-3350s and R-4360s went.

Our hangar floor drains were clogged a few years ago (old USAF base, hangar built 1954). Roto-rooter guy said that all the piping for the floor drains had collapsed. When he tried to clear it, the last 15-20 feet of his “rooter” came back coated with old waste oil.

Nowadays, everyone has a hissy fit if I keep 2-3 gallons of waste oil around for more than a couple of days…….or a half pint of Jet-A comes out of the wing vents when the fuel load on the airplane is topped off.

XGS,

While we’re at it, OR is considering making “topping off” ILLEGAL! LOL.

Yeah, I will say I was present for that transition. We used to just let tur-cote run wild and free and PD-680 ( cleaning solvent ) was substituted for water. We never cared in the late 70’s/early 80’s.

But that all changed. We were like, Huh, are you NEW here? Are you joking? Uh, no, we’re not. It was a major ( but necessary ) pain. We were right on the water at Cubi Point yet you got brownie points for putting the lid back on before tossing hyd. fluid in the dumpster?

skroodle,

Have you ever considered any… ‘real’ freedom?

Freedom, from the opinions of others?

Freedom from opinions of, yourself?

No, I’m not an expert but they do have chemists that specialize in this stuff and it just may be this is the best ( least bad ) way to dispose of it?

My grampa is an organic chemist and after he retired he was in charge of a team of consultants there at Dugway in Utarr, where they became occupied with thinking of how to dispose of a wholllllle bunch of extremely nasty substances thoughtfully hoarded by the good ol’ US military. Years, YEARS of study and it’s still not settled.
We didn’t get to hear all the juicy details, because a lot of it was classified, probably still is, I don’t know. I don’t know if I want to know, either.
I recall once I was over visiting gran, just gossiping merrily, and grumpaw got home and—this is the important part—he looked a teensy weensy bit anxious.
This is significant, because if you knew my grumpaw you would know he is the toughest, hardest-headed ol’ grump there ever was. So when I saw him looking the teensy, weensiest bit anxious I thought inside my head, I thought: ‘It’s time for me to lean over and tenderly kiss my wee pink bum goodbye.’
Although so far me and my bum are still here, so that’s good.
(so far)

Olygal,

Well right, we’ve had that debate going on for 20 years ( at least ) over the weapons depot in Umatilla. Seems everyone has an opinion on how this would best be handled but always stops just short of making a definitive statement.

So if someone has the brass to just burn it, then I say more power. At what point is the debate itself less healthy than the substance in question?

At what point is the debate itself less healthy than the substance in question?

I don’t know. Shall I ask my grumpaw and see if he looks anxious? That’ll be my clue.

Oly:

Al I care about is did he see the Roswell aliens.. we are not alone in the universe…the truth will come out

—————————-
he was in charge of a team of consultants there at Dugway in Utarr, where they became occupied with thinking of how to dispose of a wholllllle bunch of extremely nasty substances

“Now, long-term human exposure to DU… not so nice.”

Nope..back then, lot’s of close-in support troops walked over, kicked up the dust, then sat on those tanks eating lunch as they posed for their “war pictures”.

Not good at all

I think Lost is referring to Michael Jackson.

Doh. (I usually think of MJ as Michael Jordan; forgot about current events).

It helps to have a good breeze - e.g. draft from the nearby helicopters.

I just renewed my license in Ca, and one of the chapters I read was on law revisions and it had this clause in it. I’ll be happy to send you a xerox of the pages with all the particulars. It floored me too, until I understood that the laws actually tightened. We’re re-entering at the end of this year, so I’ll be researching this carefully. Drop me a P O Box, and I’ll be happy to send you a xerox.

I have already finished the 24 units education requirements for my Brokers License. My background is Commercial, coming out of Accounting.

“I’m thinking about throwing a brick through a Post Office window just for a little down time and a credit score make-over!”

Sheesh DinOR, you ARE the littile revolutionist today.

I sure hope that they turn you upside down, empty all the rocks out of your pockets and keep you away any taxpayer airplanes this summer.

mikey,

I think that was a play on the urban myth of an elderly widower that had no savings and no place to stay so he did that ( on Federal Property ) so he would go to a Fed prison?

I have no idea if there’s any truth to it, but I’ve always suspected it was just a tall tale to highlight “how good prisoners have it”?

Prisons scare me.

I did some security prisoner escorts in the military. I’d surrender my weapon, sign in and then that big steel door would slam…Bang!!…Yikes…They’ve GOT me!!

“I guess that somehow didn’t stop them.”

Megabank, Inc’s refusal to accept CA IOUs may not have stopped them, but it creates significant headwinds.

Note the wording on your federal reserve notes:

“THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE”

I am guessing such wording will not be printed on CA IOUs?

I am guessing such wording will not be printed on CA IOUs?

I bet if they put a picture of Arnold on it more people would accept them.

Note the wording on your federal reserve notes:

I am guessing such wording will not be printed on CA IOUs?

I’m sure there’s some similar legal wording on them, just narrower in scope - i.e. only officially payable by the state of CA after Oct. 2 maturity or the like.

The WSJ article the other day said that the banks had originally agreed to accept these - so I wonder if a legal battle of some kind may ensue at some point, especially if this program gets “extended”. (IMO a virtual certainty)

Being that you’re in CA - any “ear to the ground” updates you can give will be interesting.

I deposited a $9600 check the other day. The teller thought it was a forgery (payment for contract work from a company I’ve been involved with for ~10 years now). I’m not sure if I should be happy or concerned that they were concerned about the check.

At any rate, funds were available the next day.

I’m tempted to start headin’ that way myself.

After all, you can ask that your debit card (which, if I’m understanding correctly, is the same thing as the bank account ATM that joeyinCalif is referring to), be run as a credit card so that those nasty PIN thieves can’t getcha.

debit card.. bank card.. check card.. ATM card.. same thing.

There’s no reason to ask that they accept the card as a “credit card” if it has the Visa logo. I’ve never been asked for or volunteered that info..
Whoever runs the card number (by phone) sees it and probably sees your current account balance as a “limit”. The card has a security code number on the back, like a CC, should that be needed.
In a store or on location, just swipe it and select “credit” if the choice pops up, and sign the receipt.

I never had any problems using one to rent a car and these guys are probably most worried about how you’re gonna cover some mishap.. ymmv.

Some cards, depending on who issued it, can earn points or whatever. There’s also liability protection similar to a credit card if someone steals it.

Downside is you’re using your own money instead of the bank’s.. you’re not contributing to a credit score.. additional funds beyond the immediate purchase may be held back for some period of time..
Rules (and laws) vary depending on the issuer, the merchant, State or country and other particulars. Wiki has a page on debit cards.

I’m guessing they are really hurting. The extremely rich and vain are probably still buying, and the actual reconstruction because of accidents/etc is still there, but the people who watch “real wives” and fantasize about living in giant houses with lots of botox are probably cutting back by 60-90% or some large number, which translates into quite a dent in the medical frankensteining business.

Ugh, my credit union is offering 10% interest loans for plastic surgery. What’s the collatoral?

More people going for ‘rejuvenating’ because of the job market. Kinda sad, no?

medical frankensteining

Good one.

True story from the Arizona Slim File: Being of fair complexion and from a family with skin cancer in the genes, I’ve been in the habit of seeing a dermatologist for an annual checkup.

However, in the past few years, I noticed that my dermatologist had jumped on the cosmetic practice bandwagon. And I noticed that I, a self-paying medical patient, no longer seemed as important as those cosmetic patients.

And it wasn’t just me.

Last fall, I noticed an elderly man standing in the waiting room. He looked like he was lost. However, the staff was just too busy to come out and ask if he needed help with finding a seat, did he want a cup of coffee, that sort of thing. He was probably a Medicare patient, and, therefore, unimportant.

During the exam, the doctor removed a mole (not cancerous, hooray!) and I noticed that the bill was around $93. By the time I’d gotten to the front desk, it had jumped to $250.

WTF? was my reaction. The desk gal said it was because they needed a deposit against further treatment fees. The lady demanded my credit card, and she started trying to charge it.

Well, my card was pretty well tied up with an airfare charge, for which I was awaiting reimbursement. I tried to explain that to the lady, and also asked her if I could be billed. The check would be in Tucson in a week or so, and could they carry me until then? After all, I’d been a patient of this practice for 16 years.

The answer was no. My 16 years of loyalty — and self-payment no longer meant much. After all, I was one of those medical patients.

Needless to say, I no longer patronize that office.

Dermatologist at the student health center at NYU told me to stick to dermatologists who teach in medical schools when possible. They HAVE to keep up with the serious medical part of the specialty, not just the cosmetic part.

Arizona Slim,

And… that just about sums up the way I feel like I’m being treated every where I go. Dr’s clinic or not.

When you’re HBB’er they quickly “size you up” and in short order determine you’re not a player. It’s gotten so bad you actually have to feign interest in upgrades just to get nominal service.

“Yeah.., yeah, I’ve often thought I ‘needed’ a wall-to-wall TV set! Hey, how much do one of these baybee’s go for? ( Throw in a few “huh’s” and ah’s for extra measure )

It can back fire though when your sales assistant scampers off to get you a price and then is never seen nor heard from again. Not kidding.

Joey,

False - it is possible to raise a credit score by opening a CC account. I have not had a credit card for more than 10 years. I do have credit for mortgage and auto loans - all paid on time for more than 20 years.

FICO stuck at mid 700’s for years because I did not have open revolving credit. I refused the stupidity for years and finally succumbed to see the outcome. Opening a credit card account with my current bank took my FICO over 800 in less than one month.

Stupid crap - my credit-worthiness is now improved because I now have more open credit. The FICO model will soon fail.

So.. You opened the CC account, didn’t even use it, and a couple weeks later, wham! 50 points is added to your FICO score? (and probably got the points before your new card arrived in the mail)
That’s… incredible.

Pics, please….

Yes!

Yep, we’re very evidence-driven here on the HBB; you’ll have to prove it to us, Kim. Link, please!

(Vacationing on Hot Flash Island these days.)

Thanks for telling us this. Really.
…Say, how are the pool-boys on the idyllic Hot Flash Island? Cute and respectful? Wearing white trousers rolled up at the cuff?

Oly,
Being a fan of The Golden Girls, your questions reminded me of Blanche. She’s my favorite walking bag of estrogen.

I prefer to reach back to the early ’80s, but there are many here who’ve been apologists for (or turned a blind eye to) one era or another.

No doubt there were excesses under Reagan as well à la Boesky and Milken, but nothing like now. If the stock market ever goes back below 1988 levels, I’ll admit I was wrong.

I was a big supporter of Reagan when he was President. Over the years I’ve come to the recognition that much of his political philosophy directly contributed to the current issues. Things like explode spending while cutting taxes (big deficits), globalization, rampant militarism, gutting regulations that were put in place for very valid reasons. He definitely had a huge presence in comparison with Carter though. Unfortunately at the time I was still young enough to think that was important.

What political capital? His numbers are falling off a cliff. I’m in the majority now!

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

SFC,

As a Drudge fan I did read Scott’s take on that. Perhaps with his numbers flagging it creates all the more need for urgency? And that’s really what I was getting at.

WB seems to be supporting it, in general, while critical of the public/private tangent.

I just people would hole up and stop spending money. I guarantee the gov is afraid of that. The pitchforks come later.

Yep - true. I was thinking more politically than economically; economically you’re right - the whole “green shoots” mantra is designed to try and get people spending again. Unfortunately it’s working, to some extent. That just means it’ll be that much longer before we get back to a sane economy again.

“I just people would hole up and stop spending money. I guarantee the gov is afraid of that.”

I dunno about that. It seems every time the people stop spending, the goverment steps in and spends for us (a la talk of Stimulus Part Deux).

Because you lose the list of new comments? You could always ctrl+click (or cmd+click on mac) and open the ad in a new tab. Heck, that’s what I do when clicking on pretty much any link, as I usually don’t care to lose my place in wherever I came across the link.

It doesn’t make that *harder* or worse than it is w/o the extension.