July 21, 2009

Paying Double, Stuck Holding The Bag

CBS 4 reports from Colorado. “There were about 65,000 foreclosures in Colorado last year, according to Ideal Homes, an Aurora-based company that tries to help people avoid foreclosure. While many homeowners feel that they have no other options but to walk away, this company…specializes in what are called ’short sales,’ and if they’re successful, they can save financially-distressed homeowners from becoming foreclosure statistics. Once the home is sold to Ideal Homes, the homeowner is free of the mortgage. The company then owns the property and negotiates with any future buyers on the sale price.”

“‘They’ll take anywhere from 80 to 89 percent of fair market value. So regardless of what’s owed on the property, that 80 to 89 percent is the range in which they’ll settle,’ said Julia Gentry, one of the owners of Ideal Homes.”

“Ideal Homes bought Steve and Faye Rushings’ home in Fort Collins. They had been trying to sell the home for five years and had fallen on incredibly tough financial times. ‘We tried to sell it for years and years and the market just kept getting worse,’ said Steve Rushing. “We just weren’t able to sell the home. We tried renting it and that was hit and miss. I changed jobs and that cut my salary quite a bit. Economically, things just kept getting worse and worse. It was getting to the point where we were just barely surviving from day to day. We just couldn’t sell the house, especially for what we owed on it.’”

The Deseret News from Utah. “Zions Bancorp. on Monday reported a second-quarter net loss of $40.7 million. Salt Lake-based Zions set aside a much larger sum — $762.7 million — in the second quarter compared to $114.2 million during the same period the previous year. The increase was in anticipation of ‘deterioration’ in commercial real estate and commercial industry loan portfolios, officials said.”

“Chief financial officer Doyle L. Arnold predicted that the provision for loan losses will continue to be up next quarter, but not as much. In a question-and-answer session, Asked which markets are causing the most concern regarding the troubled loans, he said, ‘All of them. It’s still a pretty crummy economy out there and we’re seeing deterioration in all of it.’”

The Salt Lake Tribune in Utah. “A failed Southern California bank opened Monday under the name of a Zions Bancorp subsidiary after federal regulators seized it late last week. Vinyard had been hurtling toward demise for a year. Reeling under bad land-acquisition, development and construction loans, it was placed on the FDIC’s problem-bank list in July 2008, FDIC spokesman David Barr said.”

“Vinyard’s branches are mostly in eastern Los Angeles County and western San Bernardino County. The downfall of Vinyard and a second bank, Temecula Valley Bank in Temecula, Calif., on Friday brings the number of banks that have failed this year to 57.”

The Arizona Daily Sun. “Jim Miller’s hands are calloused and strong from the two decades he spent building high-end dream homes in Southern California. In 2006, he wanted to retire with his wife here in Flagstaff to be close to his son, a student at Northern Arizona University. Now, he lives alone in a Phoenix apartment working for someone else.”

“Miller said he had built hundreds of homes since 1984, some selling for more than a million dollars, and believed there would be a market for upper-end custom homes in Flagstaff. The year was 2006, the peak of the Flagstaff housing market. ‘Nicer upper-end homes were selling,’ he said. ‘Everyone was buying.’”

“His experience was amplified with the five properties he eventually lost, including the home he bought for his son to live in. In all, Miller estimated he lost $700,000. He blames the banks for the overall national problem with foreclosures. ‘They are the reason we are in this situation. They gave to those who couldn’t afford it,’ he said. ‘The bank doesn’t know what ball they are scratching.’”

“Local builder Jeff Knorr…has poured more than a million dollars into building three townhomes on a quiet 1.8-acre lot on a Country Club cul de sac next to the golf course. The infill project had the newly built luxury townhomes priced between $389,000 and $469,000. But then a wave of foreclosures hit Flagstaff, reducing the value of every piece of real estate in the city and tightening credit for builders like Knorr.”

“So Knorr must sell three units at a significant discount — one has been marked down by $100,000 — in order to build the other eight units he had planned. ‘We are just trying to sell them for whatever we can get for them, basically. To be as competitive as possible so we can be able to move on to the eight.’ Knorr said. ‘We obviously are not going to do well on these three units.”

“The project, conceived in 2006, was designed during the peak of the real estate market, Knorr said. Now he realizes they will only sell with significant discounts. ‘Units we honestly thought would sell in the mid-fours are going to sell now for probably more like mid-threes,’ he said.”

The Arizona Daily Star. “To compete with foreclosures, builders are selling a growing number of homes for $150,000 or less. June also saw a slight increase in building permits, with 220. That’s the most in any month this year and a slight increase over the 209 permits in May. Part of that jump reflects increased interest among buyers, said John L. Strobeck of Bright Future Business Consultants. But builders are also putting up a small number of speculation homes in anticipation that the federal housing tax credit will be extended.”

“‘Even if it’s not, it’s a smart time to put some homes in the ground and sell them off,’ Strobeck said.”

The Associated Press. “Each time Lance and Kelli Thorson thought they had found their first home, someone would outbid them. It’s already happened at least 15 times. This wasn’t how it was supposed to be in a depressed housing market like Phoenix. Buyers are supposed to be able to walk in, and get pretty much whatever they want. Now, the Thorsons have taken up a tactic not seen since the heydays of the housing bubble — they are making offers on homes before they’ve seen them, as many as three per day.”

“Experts say the environment is strikingly similar to what they saw at the height of the real estate bubble. Las Vegas real estate agent Jonathan Abbinante said he has clients who are making three offers a day on homes they’ve never seen. If they get a response, they’ll check out the house and decide whether to continue or back out. He said he sees a similar frenzy for houses he’s selling.”

“‘I sell homes right over the Internet,’ Abbinante said. ‘That’s what I did in 2004.’”

The Arizona Republic. “There are still at least 128,000 other shoes to drop in the Arizona housing market, according to housing experts tracking the progress of adjustable-rate mortgage loans. Scheduled resets for adjustable-rate mortgages are expected to peak in September 2010 in Arizona at a high of about 3,750, and a second peak of about 3,650 is anticipated in December 2011. The total estimated value of ARMs in Arizona that have yet to reset is more than $30 billion, according to CoreLogic data based on loans issued prior to February 2008.”

“Most of them - even those with little chance of paying off their loans - are likely to stay if the payments are still affordable. ‘Sooner or later the decision’s going to have to be made,’ said Jay Butler, director of realty studies at Arizona State University, ‘And human nature is to avoid making those decisions as long as possible.’”

The Las Vegas Sun in Nevada. “Some real estate pros hope the June housing numbers released last week by the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors are a sign that prospects for the housing market are improving, but…experts say the major roadblock to recovery is the same obstacle that boosted inventories and pressured prices into a free fall: foreclosures.”

“Prices have fallen 38 percent since June 2008 and 55 percent since the peak of $315,000 in June 2006. ‘Everybody is asking if this is the bottom, but I don’t care if this is the bottom,’ said Steve Bottfeld, executive VP of Marketing Solutions. ‘The key question right now is how long are we going to stay on the bottom.’”

“Although the housing market is heading in the right direction based on June’s sales and prices, the big worry remains foreclosures, Bottfeld said. A moratorium on foreclosures earlier this year slowed the amount of inventory hitting the market, but lenders are expected to begin offering a substantial number of newly foreclosed homes. ‘Until we see those in the coming months, we won’t know when the market is coming back,’ Bottfeld said.”

“Tim Sullivan, president of Sullivan Group Real Estate Advisors, said that, although the housing market is close to its bottom, what is different is this recovery will lag compared with past recoveries. One reason is that real estate growth is driven by jobs, he said. In addition, during the 2001 recession, the housing market didn’t contract, and the market must pay a price for overdevelopment earlier this decade.”

“‘We are paying double this time,’ Sullivan said.”




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83 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-21 11:05:47

‘The project, conceived in 2006, was designed during the peak of the real estate market, Knorr said. Now he realizes they will only sell with significant discounts. ‘Units we honestly thought would sell in the mid-fours are going to sell now for probably more like mid-threes,’ he said’

Yeah, yeah, well how about a little blast from the past?

‘Next to the putting green on the fifth hole of Continental Country Club’s public course is a textbook example of infill development in Flagstaff. Local builder Jeff Knorr saw something else when he first toured the property: an opportunity to build 11 luxury townhomes right next to the golf course.’

‘Knorr concedes the most difficult aspect of the project is a matter of geometry: physically fitting 11 units onto the narrow lots. He estimated the multistory homes will only be 25 feet wide when finished. ‘The challenge is getting in everything you need within that 25 feet,’ Knorr said.’

‘With an estimated budget of about $4.7 million to build the townhomes, Knorr said he is taking a financial risk on building the three- to four-bedroom units. ‘Lending on townhomes is more difficult than for single-family homes,’ he said. ‘Once you start building, you basically can’t stop like you can with single-family homes.’

Tell that to the people who are in the local stalled TH developments…

Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 13:58:59

Wait a second.

He said in his recent statement that he “honestly thought” these townhouses would sell in the mid-4s, but he said in his older statement that his budget for 11 townhouses was $4.7 MM.

I used a calculator to figure out that his budget comes to just over $427k per TH. Now, how was he planning to make a living? By building houses and then selling them for a gross profit of maybe $25k each? In a world where he himself should have expected to pay upwards of $450k just for a crappy little TH? You gotta sell a lot a houses at that rate to live a middle-class lifestyle.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-21 15:08:33

I don’t want a narrow house. Seriously, how small would your couch have to be, how small a frig, dw, w/d, all beds must be doubles? what? This is weird, but he sure does look proud!

Comment by DinOR
2009-07-21 15:27:11

desertdweller,

As a matter of fact.., during the boom my wife and I ( in an effort to downsize ) were shown a ‘lot’ of “wide hallway” floorplans.

When I pointed it out to realtors there parrot-response was “You live front-to-back!” ( like it was somehow a “plus”? ) Hey, I -love- those kinds of bars. If there’s some loudmouth there, trust me there’s plenty of ‘bar’ in the bar.

But everything is “excuse me” ( and belly bumping ) every time you get up to use the restroom etc. It’s no way to live.

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Comment by oxide
2009-07-22 05:10:07

Even the most basic residential architect knows that the most efficient use of space is to arrange rooms and doors to avoid the use of any hallway at all. You could easily waste 200 sq feet on a hallway, enough for two bedrooms.

 
 
 
Comment by arizonadude
2009-07-21 15:38:52

“They are the reason we are in this situation. They gave to those who couldn’t afford it,’ he said. ‘The bank doesn’t know what ball they are scratching.’”

Who went to the bank for the loan?Did they hold a gun to his head?

 
 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-07-21 11:11:56

…they can save financially-distressed homeowners from becoming foreclosure statistics. Are the different forms of debt-discharge treated all that differently? I can see where a short sale might save the lender time and money, but how much does it help the (former) homeowner?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 11:56:38

I imagine that if all three parties are friendly, in complete agreement and will work together towards a particular outcome, almost anything can be done if it’s within the law.

It might be easily possible to avoid the short-sale’s being charged to the FB… maybe even be able to avoid it altogether.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 12:51:54

i been thinkin’ about his a bit..

Say, as one tiny part of the 3-way deal, the bank lends the FB $300,000 as an unsecured personal loan. FB uses that to pay off the $300K mortgage balance due. That gets rid of the mortgage. A “short sale” and “foreclosure” are no longer in the picture. (Numerous transactions preceded and follow this one.)

The FB can’t run with the money.. all three parties are contractually obligated to follow the described path. An escrow company might be used to execute all the various transactions simultaneously.

Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 14:23:58

But then the FB would have to pay the money back. If they had the resources to do so (or cared to do so), then a short sale or foreclosure wouldn’t even be in the picture.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 14:41:10

What’s the difference between the FB owing the bank 300K in mortgage debt or 300K in personal loan debt?

If the objective is to “help” the FB by keeping a forecloseure off his credit report, the particular type of debt matters.

I’ve heard of, but not been involved in, some pretty complicated 3-way RE deals involving trades and transfers and what have you.. There’s a lot of ways to get in trouble. I’m not sure that the suggestion is even doable.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 14:44:08

Joe:

The FB doesn’t have to pay the difference in a short sale. They merely take a hit to their credit score.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 14:49:15

They merely take a hit to their credit score.
yeah, i know..

comment copied by Jim A points out that “they can save financially-distressed homeowners from becoming foreclosure statistics.”

I take that to mean that they somehow avoid short-sale/foreclosure.
Maybe they don’t specifically include short-sale (because that’s what they intend to do) and it’s not mentioned on purpose?

 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 14:58:47

Right. The short sale is being offered as a way to avoid foreclosure. It’s a little better for the FB’s future borrowing capacity than a foreclosure would be, but not by much. Any agreement whereby the FB has to actually pay the money they owe would be unworkable because it would be no better than simply paying the mortgage outright.

 
Comment by polly
2009-07-21 15:42:51

If the mortgage becomes a personal unsecured loan, the FB can get rid of it in bankruptcy court.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 16:14:57

..get rid of it in bankruptcy court…

hmm.. bankruptcy doesn’t sound anymore appealing than foreclosure..

How about the house the FB now owns free and clear. Might the court use that to compensate the note holder if the FB were agreeable?

Since distressed sales will be the norm, and i might gete involved in one, i need to bone up on this stuff.. but without being in the business it’d be tough..

 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 16:50:04

Polly:

Short sales and foreclosures are two types of debt discharge, since the FB doesn’t have to pay the remaining balance of the non-recourse mortgage. Bankruptcy would only be advantageous to ppl with recourse loans such as cash-out refi’s. Those ppl will be filing BK regardless, and the BK will hurt them worse than the foreclosure.

Joe:
If the FB owns a paid-off house that is worth more than his debt on a non-paid-off house, then he can go ahead and make the trade. He’ll end up with a worse house and save his credit, but he certainly doesn’t need any “help” to do that.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 17:31:16

i’m just feeling around the edges.. looking for an angle. It’s always been one of my bad habits.. a sort of hacking instinct… try and make things do what they weren’t designed or intended to do.

i guess what i wanna know is..
Is there any way an FB can avoid the short sale, avoid foreclosure and / or bankruptcy and the credit hit, while some third (or forth) party makes money, and the lender finds an advantage to the deal?
Seems like it’s asking a lot..

 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 17:48:02

I don’t think so, Joe.

Simplify it. The loan was backed by two things:

1. The borrower’s potential income

2. A house

Either 1 or 2 has to be enough to cover the bill. If a borrower is not willing or able to pay back the entire balance of the loan, then the bank is losing money. There’s no way around that.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 17:59:20

Sure, the bank has to give up all hope of getting all of their money back. A short sale costs them. Foreclosure costs them too if the property value dropped enough. Then there are attorney fees, holding costs, maintenance, time values, internal administrative costs, etc..

Doing things one way costs them more or less than doing it another. So a bank would be most interested a deal where they lose the least amount possible.
Dollars you don’t lose is money in your pocket.

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 14:22:15

I’m not sure about this, but isn’t it up to the bank to report the short sale to the credit bureaus? What if the bank just promised not to report it? That might be a way to incentivize ppl to go through the rigmarole of a short sale instead of just walking away.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 14:44:14

i’d imagine that numerous parties besides the bank and FB are somehow alerted to or notified of a short sale, and one or more might be obligated to pass that on to other parties, like the IRS… but i know no more than you do.

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Comment by BKrazy
2009-07-21 18:09:39

that remains to be seen. As of today’s world, credit reporting is done my numbers (statistics) and not words. for example, you are 0,30,60,90+ days late on your payment. They also look at available balance ratio’s and length (time) of accounts like 3mo, 12mo,24mo. These are the factors used for credit SCORING.
A credit report does not know the difference between words like Foreclosure, Forebarance, Short Sale, Deed in lieu. Either way you are probably at least 120+ late on your largest credit account, your score will be screwed.

-BKrazy

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-21 21:39:58

..A credit report does not know the difference between words like Foreclosure, Forebarance, Short Sale, …

Humans who have an interest in someone’s report know the difference… a prospective landlord.. a furniture store.. anyone who wants some background before extending credit.
I think i’ve heard of car rental places running credit checks.

I once read someone’s free report. The FICO “score” costs money and wasn’t included, but page after page of gory details were there.

 
 
 
Comment by Al
2009-07-21 11:23:11

“They gave to those who couldn’t afford it,’ he said. ‘The bank doesn’t know what ball they are scratching.’””

Does anyone know what that last sentence means? Is it some kind of regional expression?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-21 11:30:14

Well, since this guy is from CA, I doubt it’s regional. Perhaps they say this out there? Actually, it doesn’t make a lot of sense at all. Maybe it’s a FB thing.

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-21 12:11:42

Or he could just be stuck on the Magic 8 ball that used to give him business advice.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-07-21 11:42:02

I think it’s a billiards expression. Getting the wrong ball in a pocket is called a “scratch” depending upon which game you are playing.

Comment by Michael Viking
2009-07-21 11:56:44

I’m pretty sure it’s more like they can’t tell their right nut from their left.

Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 16:38:54

That’s a possibility too.

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Comment by Tim
2009-07-21 11:59:09

I think it relates to pocket billiards.

Comment by Steve W
2009-07-21 13:18:11

It’s a heckuva lot funnier if he’s referring to testicles. I’m sticking with that interpretation.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-07-21 14:09:25

He IS referring to them. The best part is he’s railing against banks lending to people who can’t cover the payments when HE HIMSELF WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE. It’s totally the bank’s fault. Riiiiight. What a dipwad.

 
 
Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 15:59:00

To clarify, yes, I think it relates to billiards.

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Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 15:55:05

That’s a possibility.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 14:26:38

I don’t know what the expression means or where it comes from, but I’m pretty certain it’s no more than another way to pass the buck.

Way to pass the buck dude, way to go. You go.

 
Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 15:24:38

I didn’t know what it meant either, unless he was trying to ne MSM obscene.

Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 15:44:00

knee = be. So does ne = be. To be or not to be…

That is the question.

 
 
 
Comment by CincyDad
2009-07-21 11:32:30

” ‘Some areas are back down to where they were selling in 1999,’ he said.”

Let’s see….

House prices back at year 2000 levels.
Stock market back at year 2000 levels.
Wages stagnant at year 2000 levels (disposable income below that level?)

Like many on this board said 3 years ago… excluding the housing boom, the country has yet to come out of the 2001 recession.

Comment by Al
2009-07-21 12:05:50

Does this mean I have to stock up on bottled water, canned food and batteries again for Y2K?

Comment by Jim A.
2009-07-21 12:26:40

You forgot gold.

Comment by DennisN
2009-07-21 17:22:16

You forgot ammo.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-21 17:52:30

That is scary, because I think you are right.

 
 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-21 13:36:13

And I’m still holding out hope that some predictions (FPSS?) of going back to ‘83 prices in housing will come to pass.

(Was that in inflation adjusted, or nominal dollars? I can’t remember)

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-07-21 11:38:27

This is a little old, but I didn’t see this article discussed here, and the subject has been discussed here: falling household formation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/09/AR2009070902803.html?wprss=rss_realestate

Everything in real estate assumes growth. But what if there isn’t any? For the Southwest, what if population growth can only occur if there is decline somewhere else, as in the Las Vegas and Detroit example?

“Government data suggest that the recession has helped push down household formation. Between March 2007 and March 2008, the number of new households — which is defined as any group of people sharing living arrangements — grew by 772,000, to a total of 116.8 million, compared with an increase of 1.63 million a year earlier, Census Bureau data show.”

In March 2008 the recession was barely getting started. What happened the subsequent year? What’s happening now?

“Household formation rates could keep falling, said Richard Moody, chief economist for Forward Capital, a real estate investment and research company, because of the strong correlation between job loss and household formation. With unemployment not expected to peak until next year, ‘a lot of that isn’t reflected yet’ in the data, he said.”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-21 12:03:25

Remember that charming 1970s TV show “The Waltons?” The Great Depression was on, and they weren’t combining living space because they loved each other. (Remember the “g’nights” at the end of the show?) They were doing it because they had no other place to go.

Comment by bill in Los Angeles
2009-07-21 13:23:17

G’night Muttonchops
Night beanhead,
Goodnight monkeyface,
‘night walrus butt

Is that how it went?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-07-21 14:12:13

I’m pretty sure that’s how it goes in D.C. (Regardless of who’s in office/congress/etc.)

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Comment by cereal
2009-07-21 20:18:06

“G’night Muttonchops
Night beanhead,
Goodnight monkeyface,
‘night walrus butt”

are we kissing the Obamas goodnight?

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Comment by First
2009-07-22 08:23:21

Wow, r@cist much? Shouldn’t you be watching Fox news right now?

 
 
 
Comment by First
2009-07-22 08:21:46

I thought they were doing it because the kids were too young to get their own place and move out on their own. . . Pretty sure that is why.
———-
“they weren’t combining living space because they loved each other. “

 
 
Comment by bill in Los Angeles
2009-07-21 13:29:38

Household formation? Does he mean “baby formation?”

But yeah, “baby formation” is going to keep falling, among college educated couples. But not among illegals.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-07-21 14:13:27

Too bad nobody slipped ‘whose parents are legally in the country’ into the citizenship clauses.

Comment by DennisN
2009-07-21 15:43:52

SFBB -

But it IS there. The 14th Amendment has a TWO PART test for auto citizenship: 1) born or naturalized in the US AND 2) “subject to the jurisidiction thereof”. Children born of parents illegally here flunk the second part of the test.

Unfortunately Congress exceeded the Constitutional minimal requirement - which they can do - and by statute wrote out the second part of the test.

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Comment by krazy bill
2009-07-21 19:04:45

If they are not “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”, how can they be arrested, tried, convicted or deported? Of course they are “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”; unless you have diplomatic immunity or protection by treaty, you are “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” in whatever country in which you are.

 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-07-21 19:08:13

Twenty million illegals get free health care under O’s health plan. Sell them the inventory. That will solve things. Bring back Lereah.

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Comment by Sobay
2009-07-21 11:59:04

“‘They’ll take anywhere from 80 to 89 percent of fair market value. So regardless of what’s owed on the property, that 80 to 89 percent is the range in which they’ll settle,’

- I am in escrow on a house that sold for $360k and my offer was $105k. The same house 2 lots over sold for 405k.

We don’t think that it will appraise that high….we are also the back up offer on another nearby house that we bid 95k and the realtor emailed me that ‘there is a problem with the appraisal price and they are contacting the primary bidder’.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-21 13:39:23

“I am in escrow on a house that sold for $360k and my offer was $105k.”

Holy crap, Sobay, where is this? (generally speaking) Looks like I need to ramp up my lowball offer strategies.

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-21 13:43:51

Really - my lowball strategy pales in comparison!

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-21 13:47:10

Lowballing vs. lowballing and going to escrow are two very different things. This is great news! Congrats to Sobay for potentially setting some low, low comps!

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Comment by Curt
2009-07-21 14:05:34

Don’t scratch!!!

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-07-21 14:15:05

Sweeeeeet! Nice to hear some lowballing action resulting in success!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-21 14:22:00

But I thought that lowballing was evil. And that it would condemn you and your descendants to h-e-double-hockeystick.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-07-21 15:40:27

Lowballing when you’re not embarrassed at the price you’re offering is evil. Cause then you’re not going low enough. They need to hire William Shatner do be the Foreclosure Price Negotiator.

Knife Catcher : I’m going to buy this house. It’s listed for 300k, so I’ll offer 289k!

William Shatner : Mamby pamby!

KC : Uh, 250k?

WS : Do you want to be a bank’s boy toy?

KC : N-no… How about 219k?

WS : C’mon! You can do better than that!

KC : 199k?

WS : *Pointing down with both hands and mouthing the word “lower” silently.

KC : 150k?

WS : NOW you’re negotiating!

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Comment by Big V
2009-07-21 14:31:44

To compete with foreclosures the market, builders are selling a growing number of homes for $150,000 or less.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-21 14:58:11

Shows how much margin builders have. They can go from selling $300K house to selling $150K houses in a matter of months. Granted, the houses they’re building are smaller and less expensive to construct, but that 50% has got to reflect some sort of a reduction in their profit, don’t you think?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-07-21 18:33:16

The price of materials is down. Subcontractors are cutting their margins to the bone and sometimes even losing money to keep their skilled help employed. And if the builder is buying the land at today’s new low prices, he can build almost the same house for half.

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-07-22 05:50:24

Not only that, but sometimes you lose less money by selling at a loss than you do by not selling at all.

If you have sunk $300k into building a home to sell for $330k, you’re far better off selling the home for $250k instead of not at all.

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Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-07-21 15:05:02

““Each time Lance and Kelli Thorson thought they had found their first home, someone would outbid them. It’s already happened at least 15 times. This wasn’t how it was supposed to be in a depressed housing market like Phoenix…”

“…Now, the Thorsons have taken up a tactic not seen since the heydays of the housing bubble — they are making offers on homes before they’ve seen them, as many as three per day…”

“…For the Thorsons, with a lease expiring next month and a second child on the way, the pressure to find a home is growing. Kelli is eager to paint and decorate. She already has plans mapped out for their 2-year-old daughter’s room.”

Lance and Kelli, perfect.

Listen, Thorsons, your first child appears to have survived the rental experience. If you wish to play the role of eager (dumb) knifecatchers, do not blame your move on the about to be born baby.

Now that you have appeared in an Associated Press article, take some time to read about the record foreclosure filings happening each month in the very county in which you live. Renew your lease or find a better place to rent. Start your search again in six months. On the plus side, it will not be 110 degrees as you investigate houses. In all likelihood, the inventory will be even more abundant at your price point. It might still be too early then, but sight unseen house purchase contracts are just plain stupid.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-21 15:16:42

“‘Even if it’s not, it’s a smart time to put some homes in the ground and sell them off,’ Strobeck said.”

what?
Even if its not a good idea to chop off my left nut, its a smart time and will fit into my pants easier? Or, even if its not a good idea to jump off a cliff, its a smart time and faster to the bottom, or the other side?

ps. I dont’ have nuts, but I couldn’t think of anything more nonsensical than this guy did.

Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 15:27:04

Chop both of them off what the heck.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-21 15:30:06

Slim here. Allow me to explain what Mr. Strobeck just said. He’s using Tucson REIC Logic (TM) to say that the builders need something to do. Even if it’s as dumb as chopping off sensitive body parts or jumping off clips.

Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 15:50:21

What type of clips? Just kiddin’ Slim. Wondered how the Arizona Slim Ranch was doing.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-21 17:05:57

The Arizona Slim Ranch is doing just fine. Thanks for asking. The Ranch’s xeriscape is thriving amidst the summer monsoon storms.

And I’m about to take my front porch light off the grid. It’s going to be solar powered and will automatically turn on at sunset and turn off at dawn.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-21 17:20:23

That’s cool Slim.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 17:04:26

Desert: I meant, since u don’t have any to begin, chop em both off. It reminds me of the long ago promised metaphysical geo-ducks Olyu was going to mail me, but I digress.

Comment by Shorty the Hairy Midget Jerk A/K/A ATE-UP
2009-07-21 17:05:37

Olyu = guage.

 
 
 
Comment by CArefugee
2009-07-21 16:37:47

Tired of the $8,000 Federal Tax Credit for first=time buyers that’s set to expire at the end of the year? Now they want another one — $15,000 for ALL buyers after the $8,000 tax credit expires.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-21 18:56:03

I think it should be a $100k credit, but only if you don’t have a job.

Comment by drumminj
2009-07-21 22:37:42

aww, man! But I just got a job! Now I have to lose it again?

Grumble grumble…

 
 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-21 17:15:26

I am concerned about copyright problems. Therefore, I remain…

ATE-UP.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-21 22:10:54

The target buyer is someone coming out of an apartment who is focused first and foremost on a monthly payment…

This is, frankly, horrifying.

That the industry would sink to this level in order to put people in homes; incredulously stretching the flawed psychology that Home Ownership is “always” better than Renting.

These poor (target buyer) bastards are no longer thinking they’re going to get rich in two years by buying a house they can’t afford, now they’re just thinking that if they can stretch for the payment, they won’t have to answer to the landlord.

Most of the people on this board are intelligent, and we have all mostly expressed righteous disapproval when confronted with examples of greed and stupidity, but now that the greed quotient is gone (from the target buyer), it is truly despicable to see the less brighter bulbs being preyed upon by an industry without even a hint of reservation.

Feh.

 
Comment by Tizzie
2009-07-26 09:46:41

How come the price of Land Owned Mobile Homes in Southern Florida has not dropped in price like the houses and condos?

 
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