Mine To Look After
-by the Mysterious Flying Miser
Quite a few readers of this blog have recently posed the question “Where the hell is Ben Jones, and what the hell is he doing all day long?” Well, I woke him up early one morning and interviewed him to find out. According to him, he’s been working on his new business. He calls it “property preservation”. He swears his job is to secure and maintain houses once the delinquent occupant vacates the house. I eyed him suspiciously and pressed on. I was sure he was only making an excuse, that there would be girls in his bed and whiskey on his breath. I forced my way through the window and looked around. No girls. I decided to leave the breath question unanswered. So, with no evidence of excessive sloth and indulgence, I decided to play along and ask him a bit about this intriguing business of repossessing houses. Here’s how the conversation went:
Miser (with eyebrow raised): What made you decide to become a property preservation contractor?
Ben: I always considered the Housing Bubble Blog to be dedicated to the economic phenomenon of the mania. So I started a foreclosure blog as a place to put various related opportunities that I came across that weren’t directly relevant to that. I found an article on this field in 2006, and thought it would be a good business to ride out the bust with.
Miser: When did you decide to do it?
Ben: When I felt there were enough defaults in northern Arizona, by late 2007, I decided to start the company. It took a long time. The insurance alone took months to put together.
Miser: Describe what you do on a day-to-day basis.
Ben (lighting up a Nat Sherman mint cigarette and looking official): A typical day might start with what is called an initial secure. This usually involves changing a lock on a secondary door, which allows the owner and realtor to continue to access the house. Once a house is secured, it is checked for damages, etc. I may bid on these damages or for removing debris. Then the house is most often mine to look after; cutting the grass and making sure it is OK. Over time this list of houses to take care of becomes the bulk of the work.
Miser (leaning forward with excitement, trying to look cool): Have the houses already been foreclosed on by the time they are assigned to you?
Ben (leaning backwards, obviously trying to suppress his whiskey breath): About 60% of the time, the initial secures I do are presale, which means it is not in foreclosure yet.
Miser: Are the houses always vacant by the time you get there?
Ben: No. It is rare for a house to be occupied, even presale, but it is the case in 5% of the houses, approximately. Usually, not only are they vacant, but they are abandoned. Utilities off, and no one is maintaining the yard. Sometimes a door or windows will be unlocked. (Ben makes note to self: Lock window to keep out Miser in future. Consider change of address.)
Miser (more friendly by now): What do you notice most about the houses you visit?
Ben: Of course, having worked with the HBB for years, I find situations of economic interest. I notice things like how long people have been living there, meaning it was probably a refinance that resulted in the default. One thing I see is the high number of foreclosures in expensive subdivisions. I see signs of anger and possibly embarrassment on the part of the owners.
Miser: Describe the most interesting things people leave behind.
Ben (pouring a bowl of some healthy cereal, making a point not to offer me any): The personal property I see isn’t very interesting, except in what people don’t find value in taking. Computers get left behind a lot. Furniture is often still present. There always seems to be some paint or chemicals. Then there is the food and other health hazards like tires. But it is surprising how often the houses are spotless, as if they have been professionally cleaned.
Miser: Do you ever talk to the neighbors? Why or why not?
Ben: Rarely. I try not to bother them, and I have constraints about what I can discuss legally. If there is some question about addresses, like in a rural area that is poorly marked, I may ask around to make sure I have the right house.
Miser: How do the neighbors usually seem to feel about the situation?
Ben: They often inquire about what is happening with the property. They are obviously concerned about their neighborhood and the values. For the most part, they aren’t pleased. Sometimes they express interest in buying the place, at a discount of course.
Miser: What’s the most interesting interaction you’ve ever had with a neighbor?
Ben (starts to say something with a mysterious little smile on his face, then suddenly stops and changes track): A few days ago, in a rural area near New Mexico, I couldn’t find a lot because the addresses weren’t in sequence. I approached one man who told me a title company rep had mistakenly put a notice of default on his door the day before, and left in a hurry. This gentleman told me he considered shooting this person. But I explained what I was there for, and he calmed down and we got along fine. He was very helpful in the end, and other neighbors inquired about buying the house for family members. All in all, the neighbors are glad someone is doing something about these vacant houses and are happy to see me show up and make sure everything is OK.
Miser: Do you ever feel sorry for the people who are losing their houses?
Ben: I’ve always believed that feeling sorry for someone is looking down on them, so no. Being a student of the housing mania, I understand the various factors that got us here and I tend to view it more as an academic education. The only part that is really unpleasant is to see that there were children involved.
Miser: Do you ever feel sorry for the banks that are taking the houses?
Ben: I have zero interaction with the lenders. But I do understand that behind these loans are bonds and bondholders, meaning that there are everyday people out there with stock losses or pension funds that have taken a hit. When I was an accountant, I never liked to see people lose money, and I still feel that way.
Miser: Are you glad you started doing this?
Ben: It’s a business like any other, with risks and rewards. It certainly isn’t some jackpot industry; it is very competitive and the deadlines never seem to end. That said, it is exciting to be in field that is growing. But that is the nature of a counter-cyclical industry, and this is no ordinary cycle, as folks at the HBB know.
Miser: For how long do you plan to do this?
Ben (leading Miser out the front door with a gentle push behind the shoulders): It’s hard to say. In northern Arizona, our market is behind others like Phoenix and Las Vegas by a couple years. I’m guessing 2 or 3 years and then it could become just like any other business. There is an ongoing body of work, but I can’t say if this will continue indefinitely or not.
Miser: Is there anything else you’d like to say?
Ben: Hi Mom!
Ben..I remember visiting my Uncle in Anaheim California back in the early 60’s and he was doing the exact same thing that you are doing but with the Veterans Administration….Not sure why they had so many but it could have been due to the low downpayments…I think the Cal-Vet program had nothing down…
That would explain why I don’t see VA loans. It is segmented by the type of loan. HUD/FHA is it’s own thing, with different rules and guidelines, for instance. One aspect of HUD is they always want at least two bids on everything.
“…for instance. One aspect of HUD is they always want at least two bids on everything.”
Well, there’s one line of “bidness” that Halliburton won’t bother with…
HAHAHAHAA! That interview is freakin’ hilarious! I cut and pasted the whole thing, I liked it so much.
And Ben, I hope you get fabulously rich. Keep giving us details!
Oh, yeah, and be sure to wear sunscreen as you go about preserving property. I don’t believe lads of Scottish descent are very sun-proof.
I know MY specs are sure not manufactured for managing heat well. Yesterday here we had freakishly hot weather, in the 90’s, and we’re supposed to have it today and tomorrow as well. Record breaking. I don’t have AC, because I’ve never needed it before. I had to drink a ton of beer and eat many popsicles and also run through the garden sprinkler, before I set it up to spritz me as I swung my hammock in the shade and of course kept up diligently with the beer and popsicle consumption.
Sigh. It was hard work, but I managed it.
Anyway, thanks again for the super interview.
Yes, I may not get rich, but the sunscreen companies are making a fortune off of me. The other day I was in Lake Havasu City and the bank sign said, 8:12 AM and it was 102 degrees.
Go Ben!
Best of luck in your business venture!
Yuuuuck.
Give me the fog, wind and temperatures of 60-70s anytime for the Summer.
BTW, great interview.
I forgot to add good luck with you business. You saw the opportunity and ran with it. Woohoo!!!
Oly and Ben,
Our air conditioner is at max with the
expected high today being 103, tomorrow at
107. A tad warm for the Rogue valley here in
southern Oregon. Garden, trees and landscaping all soaked during the night, might even set up a sprinkler on the roof.
might even set up a sprinkler on the roof.
Then you can run through the sprinkler while you’re on the roof! Two good things at once!
Or, *gasp of excitement *, if you held a beer in one hand and a popsicle in the other hand and then ran through a sprinkler on your roof, that’s four good things at once!
Yer a freakin’ genious, Ranchaaa!
Oly girl,
A popsicle, yes, sitting down in the breezeway, same with a cold beer. Plus, due
to the pitch of the roof, you really wouldn’t
want to see me try dancing on the shakes, “cause all you’d see is a body crashing through the gutters on the way to the rose bushes.
Advancing age and impetuousness don’t go
together, besides, a cast in hot weather is not
the way to go….
Advancing age and impetuousness don’t go
together, besides, a cast in hot weather is not
the way to go….
Well, then, you could dance sedately. You don’t have to hop up and down and spin. You could be more Dean Martiney sort of thing. You know, ‘Sway’.
Elegant!
But elegant on a roof.
Two good things!
And I certainly agree that casts in hot weather are not the way to go. That’s why I hold with super-glue and sticks.
Government bidding generally wastes everyone’s time.
Maybe it’s time for the feds to get a GSA schedule for property preservation types. That way you wouldn’t have to bid on every single stinking foreclosed house.
There is a HUD schedule for pricing on most items. Then the bidding process is there to make it competitive, I suppose. I don’t really mind it, even though I probably get one job for every 20 bids right now. As far as I know, it doesn’t cost HUD much if anything to collect bids. And there are strict rules about selling a house with a HUD loan, so what is happening is a legal course that can’t be avoided or gotten around.
I for one am sure glad when a “property managment” type shows up at an abandoned house around here.
The guys down the block walked away from their house leaving it a weedpatch. I was getting tired operating the front sprinklers manually and mowing the lawn from time to time. This week a gardener showed up and took a full day mowing down the brown 2 foot tall grass in the backyard and performing other such chores.
Two foot? Yesterday I cleared a yard with five foot weeds, and this is in dry Arizona. I had one lot that was over two acres and the neighbor told me the house hadn’t been occupied or grass cut in two years. It was just taken back in May.
Around here guys like you also have to perform “winterization” services around October. It gets down to zero F here in Boise and houses will get the full burst-pipe treatment if not winterized: drain the pipes and water heater, turn off and flush toilets, put antifreeze in toilet tanks and P traps, blow out the sprinklers, etc.
We’re lucky in SW Boise because the subdivisions mostly have pressurized irrigation water for the yards. That’s one utility that won’t be shut off for nonpayment - the HOA gets an allowance of water from the Boise Project and runs its own pumping station. So even if the power is off a neighbor can manually water the miscreants’ front yards.
Water is really expensive in Arizona. How do you deal with the water bills?
Yes, each state has a winterization period. This is time consuming, tricky and doesn’t pay very much. I have seen houses that were completely frozen up. Once I got asked to bid on thawing a house out, but didn’t get the job.
I see language about taking over utilites on work orders, but I’ve never been asked to do so. I think this is neccessary when there is a sump pump, which we don’t need much in Arizona.
Do you actually do the work or hire out a landscape company to do it?
There isn’t enough money in it to sub it out. But I like working out of doors; reminds me of my college days.
so in a few years you will look like AHnold….right?
——————————–
But I like working out of doors; reminds me of my college days.
Well haven’t you checked out his t-shirt ads? Ben is the model, looks pretty buff already.
Great Article Ben! I really enjoyed it.
The kids part hit me.
Sometimes, I forget there are those who are victims.
One hopes the poor kids will learn something from the parents’ “misfortune” [usually self-inflicted]. But in too many cases, the apple won’t fall far from the tree.
Yep.
But in too many cases, the apple won’t fall far from the tree.
I did. I ran far, far away from that fooked-up tree. That’s why I’m not ‘Utarrgal’.
Abandoned homes become the new Rave in sleepy Fallbrook, CA.
http://www.thevillagenews.com/story/39229/
If you have no contact with the lender, who is it that hires and pays you?
I had the same question. The servicer, perhaps?
Ultimately they pay, but through a mortgage field services company. I’m not hired, but rather am on a contract basis. They make it clear that they aren’t required to give me work. So I have to continually prove myself in order to receive future jobs. I get rated and reviewed regularly and had to pass extensive background checks and go through probationary periods.
Do you find that you’re receiving these contracts more because they are planning to sell, or because they have been legally compelled to make improvements by a municipality?
We keep hearing about how properties are being held off the market so I’m curious how many of these gigs are forced and how many are voluntary.
I can only guess based on the work flow. And I’m pretty sure it varies by region. For instance, I read about a company in the Palm Desert area that had 500 yards under contract to maintain. I’m thinking that lenders in places with very high foreclosure numbers are more aggressive about turning these properties around and getting them sold.
I also don’t have any knowledge of municipalities role in this process. But I can say that HOAs get involved. Once, I showed up at a house and 30 minutes later a crew from the HOA arrived to do the same work. I told them I had it covered and they left.
Ben, I kinda figured you were doing work along these lines. Thank you for posting some of the details. Its always facinating to learn more about the foreclosure process and see how this bubble unfolds.
Around here this summer I have observed a couple of foreclosure lawns that were only mowed once or twice (after it got really bad). Once in a while a realtor sign pops up and mowing becomes regular. I would guess that municipalities do get involved on some level. Its probably no easier for them to get through to the right person at a bank than it is for debtors or potential buyers, though.
I would guess that municipalities do get involved on some level.
It would be nice to see municipalities put more teeth into their code enforcement, and sticking FB lenders with severe enough fines and liens to get their attention and give them strong incentives to get abandoned/foreclosed properties off their books.
I get rated and reviewed regularly and had to pass extensive background checks and go through probationary periods.
Amazing. Yet a criminal can take one class, pass the Department of Real Estate exam, and have more opportunities to do harm working as an agent or loan officer. What about appraisers?
Oh no, let’s test and background check the Property Preservationist.
No robiscrazy, you are only two-thirds correct. In California you only have to take three classes and pass a test to get a real estate license, but you do have to be fingerprinted and pass a criminal background check. Actually, I think that most criminal real estate types commit their crimes after they are licensed!
I get rated and reviewed regularly and had to pass extensive background checks and go through probationary periods.
And all the borrowers had to do was fog a mirror. What a corrupted, backwards system.
You would think a service like Ben’s would be a prime candidate for Federal “stimulus funds”. The projects are all “shovel ready” and it would have the side benefit of aiding banks get as much as they could for foreclosed housing stock.
Good point, Dennis. However, I’d much rather see the bank pay directly rather than have tax dollars targeted at this work.
IMO, a lot of this is loss mitigation, and preserving value. These houses are worth something. So it isn’t in the best interests of anyone to see it go to hell. These firms are owners, like anyone else. And they hope to sell, I’m sure. They sure can’t rent them out. So anything they spend will be made up when they sell. If they lost money, it was when they made the loan.
If they lost money, it was when they made the loan.
Quote of the day? LOL
“Miser: Is there anything else you’d like to say?”
“Ben: Hi Mom!”
2 years ago:
Andrea Mitchell: “Is there anything else you’d like to say?”
Dykstra: “I’m going to… Disneyland!”
“Miser: Are the houses always vacant by the time you get there?”
Back of Ben’s business card:
“I do forensic analysis & reconstruction on properties with financial legal descriptions that are non-performing due to a current era reality of malinvestment…I also have a non-concealed weapons device…a 12 gauge shotgun, 10 shot”
I have a couple of friends that can’t understand why I don’t carry a gun. I’m thinking, what the heck for? My biggest problem is keeping enough water around to drink. If I ever was in a bad situation, which I can’t really imagine, that’s what 911 is for.
If I ever was in a bad situation, which I can’t really imagine, that’s what 911 is for.
Well, if there’s a squatter who becomes violent, a gun is there to defend you immediately. The police likely could take a while, especially in a situation where the lots aren’t numbered sequentially and they can’t even find the place.
At least that’d be my thought…and hey, if the tenants left some dishes behind you could do some skeet shooting out back
If a house is occupied, the first rule is to leave. And it’s pretty easy to tell if it’s occupied, even from the street.
You can just social engineer the squatter? “Oh, yea I’m just here to cut the grass and clean the place up. You being here has nothing to do with me, so pretend I’m not here while I clean the place up.” Or some such. The squatter will think they hit payday, that no one cares that they are there.Then call the police when you are away.
My biggest problem is keeping enough water around to drink. I bought one of those 7-gallon blue plastic jugs at Wally World & make sure it’s full before I set out into places such as you travel in. I fill my jug with reverse-osmosis purified water (never tap water). It tastes far better even when warm, and I’ve never had a batch of RO water go bad. Decades ago I noticed chlorinated tap water would “go green” or even turn into something like dilute sewage if left in a jug in a vehicle for several days in hot weather. Chlorination of tap water doesn’t sterilize water, just suppresses bacterial & plant growth until it becomes useless.
If I were traveling in remote northern Arizona this time of year, I would have 2 large jugs of water in my vehicle for safety’s sake.
So this begs the question - if we wanted to do something similar in our areas - who are we contacting - is there listings of mortgage field services? Are we contacting BofA Countrywide, and all major lenders, or whom,
Are we then a contractor to get the services done on the home or riding around with our lawn care equipment attached to the back of a big pickup truck?
Sorry so many questions, so little space???? Tell us more. Miser we need you to pose more questions. Delve deeper in the workings of this business or other business that could be made, started, to service this time period of enormous financial set backs and foreclosures
AAAhhhhh a search of the Internet is turning up answers for property preservation and what it is and even a matrix for pricing
You’d be wasting your time contacting the lenders. Some companies do everything exclusively through realtors, for instance. Some realtors are sort of their own clearing house; where they take on the costs and recoup that upon the sale. These guys end up with big lists of REOs, if they are the ones that get chosen.
Do you have a bunch of people you contract? Do you crawl under houses, into attics? Paint, repair plumbing, repair electrical? ETC
It would be nice to have a little army, but alas, no. For the most part it’s me alone in my truck all day. I have to resist talking to myself. Lots of times, I am moderating the blog in the front seat and you guys are the only interaction I have with people all day.
I look in attics and take lots of photos, but I haven’t crawled around or done lots of repairs. It’s usually maintaining what’s there and not letting it get worse. The realtors, however, are more involved in the fixing up side.
I am moderating the blog in the front seat and you guys are the only interaction I have with people all day.
I’m hoping you’re not doing this while driving?! Perhaps you should take on an intern/apprentice so you have an extra pair of hands and someone to talk to? Also, if you get ‘em young enough, you can indoctrinate them with your economic and political philosophies as well
‘I’m hoping you’re not doing this while driving?’
I tried this once and it doesn’t really work. No, it’s while I’m parked.
‘Perhaps you should take on an intern/apprentice so you have an extra pair of hands and someone to talk to?’
Someone suggested I rent a cat to talk to. I’m thinking that would get kinda one sided. “So Felix, what’s your position on universal health care? No opinion? So are you hungry?”
On the Road with Ben and Felix…
“I am a lineman for the county.
And I drive the mainroad.
Lookin’ in the sun for another overload…”
“Hush Ben, can’t you see I’m busy here blogging on the HBB ?”
(Ben takes 2 salt pills and drives on in silence still wondering whose bright idea it was to rent THIS stupid cat)
lol
Here’s the website for the cat rental store.
http://www.westernstatescat.com/Rentals/CRS/Pages/default.aspx
If you rent the cat you are just throwing your money away… Buy a cat now or be priced-out forever…they are not making any more cats…
OK, that’s pretty funny. But maybe a talking parrot would be better. However, would it fly around in the cab, saying “pieces of eight” and land on my head when I’m trying to pass an 18 wheeler? My insurance company might not like that.
+1 Dennis.
Sirius satellite radio - works everywhere.
Of course, there’s something to be said for being cut off from society and technology once in a while.
I rode around with someone who had this. Did you know there is a 24/7 station just for redneck comedy? I’m not kidding.
Know your market
Country folk are less likely to have big city radio, so perhaps lots of country folk have the satellite radio.
Did you know there is a 24/7 station just for redneck comedy? I’m not kidding.
Personally I’m a fan of “Hair Nation”. Sadly I don’t have satellite radio, so I just get to enjoy it when I have a rental car. All glam rock all the time. Love it!
Limited radio choices were something that bothered me a lot when I lived in Gallup decades ago. I got satellite radio in 2005 & since then have made many more road trips to NM & AZ. Losing the boredom factor really makes long distance / remote places driving fun.
Guess kids these days in the Southwest won’t know what “AM” radio is…
Chile:
This is the first thing i teach a newbie DJ, to tune the AM radio to the all news station and understand the traffic reports, the 2nd step is map reading…..what good is a dj who is late to a wedding or a surprise birthday party?
Ben,
I think that’s RawDawg Comedy or some such. There’s something for everyone, that’s for sure. I’m on the road quite a bit so I loves it.
For those into finance/economy, I like to flip between Bloomberg and CNBC. Tom Keene will be on Bloomberg questioning what flock the Fed is doing while one channel over Kudlow will be wondering why anyone would dare question ZIRP.
This is a great post all around. It’s nice to see your humor shine through, Ben.
Speaking of radio, I hit a patch in N.C. and all I could find on the dial was country and church/gospel. I was surprised; I thought those days were gone and somewhat exaggerated.
Nope.
all I could find on the dial was country and church/gospel. I was surprised; I thought those days were gone and somewhat exaggerated
I guess you’ve never driven through Oklahoma. It’s pretty and I love stopping in the little towns. The small town cafes have great home cooking and there are places where you can buy concrete or pottery “yard art” for a fraction of what such things cost at an Austin nursery. But the dial is all country music and not gospel music but one radio preacher after another. (Thank goodness for CDs and i-pod.)
The foreclosure business is definitely where it’s at right now. Have a look at this Google real estate mashup of a portion of the Fort Worth area, click the “Foreclosure” box in the upper-left portion of the page, and pan around.
Multiply what you see by all the sunbelt and rustbelt cities you can name. This is what a Greater Depression looks like.
Thank you for the link.
Note: I noticed many dots in the ‘foreclosure box’ and on the ‘Non-foreclosure’ box. (Double counting) However, I noted quite a few zip codes (e.g. Lomita CA) where the listings when foreclosure was checked dwarfed those of when only ‘non-foreclosure’ was checked. Gulp!
To think, this is the boom time summer months. What the &*%# happens when the chunk of the economy that hibernates… hibernates! Seriously, I believe about 10% of the people I know earn all of their income before October and then hibernate until the spring thinking of new ways to make money. Only 1/3rd of them are in the REIC.
(Thankfully, a lower than population norm representation.)
Its getting more and more scary out there.
Daughter is finally asleep. Time to nap
Got Popcorn?
Neil
you guys are the only interaction I have with people all day
Not to disparage this interesting and certainly varied community, but that must be kind of bizarre sometimes…
Well, yes. The irony isn’t lost on me that I am moderating the HBB and driving around to foreclosures all day. But there isn’t much reason to interact with people. The houses are empty, and there is work to get done and more driving and more work. So it’s best to just get on with it. Anyway, you guys crack me up and the HBB doesn’t take up much bandwidth via wireless card.
And, we’ve got more guest bloggers on the way.
Ben has been saying for years that one should find opportunities and capitalize on the housing bubble/bust. I’ll bet there are plenty of johnny-come-lately’s in Arizona who would like to start a business such as Ben’s. But Ben was savvy enough to find an opening a few years ago. The early bird gets the worm.
Hey Ben.
Using the Google real estate map…I retraced our trip through the Indian lands of the Four Corners area…not x1 one single foreclosure… for hundreds of miles!
not x1 one single foreclosure… for hundreds of miles!
How much privately own housing is out there? As I recall, there must be very, very little.
Yeah, I was talking about this the other day with some locals. I was asked if I ever did work on a reservation, and it dawned on me that I had not. Somebody mentioned that conventional loans weren’t made there because the land belongs to the tribes, and not individuals.
Somebody mentioned that conventional loans weren’t made there because the land belongs to the tribes, and not individuals.
There is a lot of business that can’t happen in those parts because of tribal ownership / responsibility. Tribes have a degree of governmental sovereignty & can’t just be sued in conventional ways for failure to pay on loans or contract violations. Tribal members living on the rez have recourse to tribal courts, not state & local ones. Would-be creditors have reason to think the rules in tribal courts might be stacked against them. Needless to say, this tends to inhibit business formation and job creation. There are some programs on some reservations (I don’t know about the Four Corners area specifically) where loans are made on housing, owned privately, built on land which continues to be owned by the tribe or the feds as trustees for the tribe.
I love the Four Corners area, but can only take so much of it. I’m basically a Great Lakes person.
The fundamental problem, is there is nothing to secure the loan. Tribal land is leased to the home owner. You’d never be able to foreclose.
“…The fundamental problem, is there is nothing to secure the loan. Tribal land is leased to the home owner. You’d never be able to foreclose.”
So who gets 500 acres and who gets 5? Very interessss$$$ssting!
So how do they appraise a granite countertop vs granite formica
Oh, and I believe that’s the same “concept” the Irvine Co. uses on the lease’s in Newport Beach…
So who gets 500 acres and who gets 5? Very interessss$$$ssting! The few tribes I am aware of subdivide portions of their rez for individual housing to be built, those lots tend to be identical & tend to be arranged very much like classical suburbia, but out in the sticks. The arrangements tend to be egalitarian. If the homebuyer can’t hold on to it, the tribe may wind up renting the home to a member.
Indian law is a really strange field. IIUC it’s hard to enforce any contracts on an Indian living on a reservation. Quite often the tribe may cede a small area to create a non-Indian town of general jurisdiction, where banks etc. may be set up. My brother lives in Riverton WY and IIUC it was ceded to be a “civilian” town in the Wind River Indian Reservation.
Supposedly the best school for Indian law is the U of AZ.
http://www.law.arizona.edu/Depts/iplp/
DennisN,
Was almost in your part of the woods.
Drove to Canmore, Alberta and spent the night in McCall Idaho going and coming home. Some pretty country, and some arid country.
Canmore appears to be just outside Banff Nat. Park.
Did you take Hwy. 95 all the way from Winnemucca into Canada? You can make good time on it - except for the “speed trap” cutting across SE Oregon.
I would always suggest one fly from the SF Bay Area to Boise, but driving I-80 and Hwy. 95 does give one a certain perspective. From Reno onwards you drive through hundreds of miles of blasted dry desert until you round a bend in the Owyhee Mountains and see the Boise valley. The valley is such a shock since it’s all green and water as far as the eye can see.
Yes, we (Mom, Brother, Sister-in-law, niece) drove I-80 to Winnemucca and drove Hwy 95 to hwy 55 to McCall. I loved all the valleys and the high desert we saw. From McCall we drove to Canmore. It is a beautiful drive. So many changes in the land.
Coming home we drove through Glacier National Park, The Road to the Sun.
We took highway 1 and 2 in Canada. Higway 2 turned into hwy 89 when we crossed the border. Drove the Road to the Sun in Glacier, then made our way over to hwy 93. From their took hwy 12 then hwy 13. Hooked back up with hwy 95 to hwy 55. Stayed overnight in Mccall. Took hwy 55 to hwy 95 to I-80 to home.
We stayed in Canmore for a week. We left on July 10th and returned on July 19th.
I live right off Eagle Rd. south of I-84. Hwy. 55 follows Eagle Rd. north through Meridian and Eagle, then jogs about a mile east before starting north again via Horseshoe Bend.
Hey you could have put your money down on a condoze at Tamarack! They aren’t making any more land you know.
How would I got about getting my brood recognized as a tribe?
Go back and change your grandparents.
I see craigslist job openings in property preservation. I’ve seen one offering $5 per property visited, inspected for occupancy and damage, and photoed. One listing today offers $3-$10 per property visited and it sounds like they want you to do surrounding counties. They all say extensive driving of your own car is required. I don’t see how you can make much money at that price, unless they’re all in a row (we’re not there yet here- central KY).
I guess this is what you could pay an underling to do your work for you (assuming these jobs are being filled), and sit home and moderate at leisure. (sloth mentality at work)
I got away from inspections as soon as I saw the numbers. Doesn’t pay enough. There are more ways to lose money in this biz than you can shake a stick at.
Do you think the employers are making big $ on this pay scale, or does this reflect the razor thin profit margins you spoke of?
I don’t know. At rates like this, you are basically paying to work. The way the overall money picture works, IMO, is this; sometimes you get a job where the pay is low for what you do and sometimes it’s quick work. Plus, to get in on the better work you have to do the low pay stuff first and then accept it as you go along as the price of doing business. The key, obviously is to get into a situation and a market where there is more of the better stuff and less of the poor. There ain’t no magic formula for that.
Yeah, I understand the get-your-foot-in-the-door with a low opening price gambit for someone in your position, but these are just employees with no personal expectations of further gain. Honestly, for what they ask of you, I don’t see how they get anybody at their rates. Who knows, maybe they don’t. No better place than craigslist to test out possible wage levels for a possible future business.
Like I said, I don’t really do inspections. The stuff I’m talking about is other low/no paying work, like bids, or driving a long way for this or that.
$5 per property?
And just think, there’s people that will take those jobs at that price. Yeesh.
Yeah, and they ask for more than a drive-by. They want you to inspect for occupancy and damage (I assume from outside but they never say), and photograph it all.
And you have to have your own car, with your own insurance, GPS, fax, digital camera, email, etc. One company demanded a $50,000 liability contract with them as the beneficiary (!). Make more money killing your car delivering pizzas.
Introducing…
The Housing Bubble Blog Hall of Fame Comments.
First entry, (appropriately),
Professor Bear.
I love the smell of capitulation in the morning
Ben ,I got to admire that you are doing that kind of work . I remember the team that they hired to come in to do the job on the foreclosure near me .
They did a half-ass job if you ask me . They took a lot of pictures . I took care of the landscaping for over a year to keep it from going down hill before they came . Now the property has a end user owner …thank God .
I’m glad you’ve found a socially useful niche, unlike some of those who preceded you at those locations. I think “property preservation” and adaptive reuse are going to be the jobs of the future in real estate for a while.
Perhaps whereas 6,000-square-foot McMansions would make a nice eight-unit apartment for young people or seniors or four-unit for families, some of the abandoned 1970s shopping malls could be turned into recreation & community centers, indoor parks. Ping pong, badminton, rooms for various clubs (bridge, chess, whatever), with some rent paying businesses mixed in, such as food places with delivery.
Watch out for abandoned pit bulls.
Nice post!
The only abandoned animal I’ve seen was a peacock. But it is on 5 acres plus of land, and I doubt he even knows the owner is gone. Come to think of it, he might just be squatting.
“…he might just be squatting”
A squatting peacock? Where the heck is “Losty” ?
(Hwy anxiously awaits her comments…)
He was literally squatting; on the back porch. Freaked me out when he stood up too, cuz I didn’t see him down there.
I don’t think you feed peacocks, do you? I’m guessing they eat grasshoppers, etc.
“Don’t feed the “animals”! …that includes me…
Wait are peacocks native to AZ? O.K., you can feed them…try beer first…if they fall over, they may become victims to coyotes…they’re native…I think…what the heck am I doing…this is America, catch the sucker and sell it on eBay!
“Signs of frustration.”
When we were doing our house search, we saw quite a few of those. Dents in wall corners– the ones that have metal under them, so you know it’s not an accident– holes punched in walls, and the one house that Evil Rob stepped into, felt the carpet squish, and turned right back around.
The house we got has a busted frame on the door leading to the garage, as though somebody kicked the door in. Sure enough, one of the neighbors said, “Oh yeah, [redacted] busted the door in one day.”
And what about the things that get taken? The most hilarious thing is that, for some reason, the toilet paper roll holders were removed from these bathrooms. Out of all the things to remove, they took those?
B.Dogg….. You’d didn’t say so so I’ll ask… Is there an element of a very basic inspection you’re doing? Are you verifying lender info and doing take-offs on lot size, structure dimensions and general condition? If yes, are you photographing and preparing reports for lenders?
Yes, most definitely. Every visit to a property for whatever reason is an inspection of sorts. On an initial secure, I’m likely the first person inside, so I take pics of all the rooms, damages, debris, etc. The lot is measured for grass cuts, and photos go with that. Almost everything is online (with the better companies) so not a lot of paper is going around. But just a simple job involves an online report along the way. Are the utilities on, etc. Sometimes, a report is the job, like occupancy verification. I don’t do many of those.
Howdy from Richmind, VA!
I look forward to reading up on Ben’s daily activities.
Hey, it’s a former “lost” but now “found” amazing grace post!
Dear Ben,
Thank you for the efforts you’re mustered for this blog…a true American “asset” that has “trickled
down” a tremendous amount of “free” information to a very grateful audience…you efforts have been recognized by an enormous amount of intelligent commentators…really the most “freely” exchanged view of ideas and perspectives I’ve witnessed in a very long time…and I might add, that those that would “spit in the soup”…have
“Ben” clearly recognized and quickly dispensed with ;-)…I know that your initial efforts were to “shed light” to “others” ….well, the “others” at least most of them…seemed to have signed doc’s….before they were “educated”…now the effects of this vast distribution of “home-ownership” via “deceit” has become …what can one say: “the talk of the town” …the question to myself is what remains… I have not really been effected by all of this “misguided” behavior…I am a simple land owner of 22 acres (paid)…This was not always the case…I learned from past mis-takes and was “reminded” of historical dilemmas…but I have “lived” through some period of “time” …both of my parents are “gone” for lack of a poets touch…as well as my “grand parents” I have one Uncle & one Aunt still living on the “family” farm in Kansas…let me tell you that the scent of “fresh air” and dust have a direct effect on my brain & “spirit”…I’ve never been within four walls that gave me as much “comfort” as a night spent in a tent in the wilderness…but everyone has their “own experiences”
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’ve “conditioned” myself…always…for the worst of possible circumstances…to me, the way I was taught and came to believe…to sign yourself to a moral & legal contact that extends out to the next 30 years of your “family’s” entire life is….quite a “commitment” …so much so…that all the part’s involved in that “transaction” and to “understand” the depth of the legal binding and to have the “intelligence” to “guide” your decision… is truly something to “behold”…but then…who “suffers” if the “promise” of a “better tomorrow” doesn’t come true? Will I guess…”others” are finding out what happens when family’s are unable to handle “resets” based somewhat on a proposed “enticement” …or fulfill their “moral & legal” obligations due to “mitigating” circumstances…I think that at sometime in the future…people will look back at our time in history…and with absolute amazement…wonder why…it took some much “effort & resources” to secure a place of safe haven for a “family”…we really have separated ourselves for the rest of the… “animal kingdom”
Hwy50
So, if “home ownership” was a “falsehood” at 4.8% (shadow figure #1) unemployment, what does that make it at 12.5% unemployment (shadow figure #2)?
Forgot the music link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP67H4qfe5w
excellent Hwy:
I like a lot of country music, when i lived in South Carolina, we had to play a lot of it at parties, but Here in NYC we don’t even have a country radio station…
Here in NYC we don’t even have a country radio station… Satellite radio.
hwy 50 - Just got back from ‘God’s church’ at 10,200′ catching goldens. Missed Oba-mas lying on the TV and radio and reading Peanuts and Dilbert back to civilization in Pismo.. Good luck Ben
Interesting info, Ben. Thanks for sharing.
When I was thinking about picking up another rental out of foreclosure ( we decided against it - prices will fall lower around here ), I met one of the gentlemen in your profession, Ben. He was very interesting to talk with. He was working for a realtor who had over 300 listings that were in foreclosure (realtor was hooked up with some big lender-maybe Countryfried or Chase), and he sd that he drove around in his truck all day doing verifications as to whether the place was occupied ( to quote him, “seeing if they’ve got their sh-t on the lawn), doing winterizations, taking pictures, and putting on hasp locks for lockouts. He sure was sick of it, but was happy to have so much work. He got paid by the house. He said he was making good money. The lawnmowing and such was contracted out, evidently. We have so many foreclosures around here that he really could go from house to house in a relatively short time. He would do all of the ones in one town, and then move over to the town next door.
I’ll buy you lunch at the Sandbar, best burgers ever, next time you’re in Havasu. You have my email…. I don’t sell Amway, I’m not a Realtor, I just sorta owe you one…. Doing my own research would have cost me a couple of hours a day. Your site saves me a LOT of time.