July 24, 2009

A Dream That’s Changing

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The house across the street from Hartnell College wasn’t Daniel Eyde’s dream home. When he bought it in 2005, the Salinas house was a place to live and an investment. But it was also the place where he grew up. It was part of his retirement plan, a way to get a ‘toehold’ in the juggernaut real estate market. You’d never be able to tell by looking at it, but now the house is Eyde’s albatross. Its value has dropped 48 percent since he bought it. ‘Does it make sense to keep spending on an investment that is losing money every week?’ he asks with frustration in his voice. ‘”We’re facing the real prospect of walking away from the house instead of simply continuing to lose money.’”

“Back in Eyde’s office, a graph shows a big bell curve of local housing prices, reaching its zenith around 2005 and then dropping down, down, down. ‘This is a classic bubble,’ Eyde said. ‘It’s turned out to be the most calamitous investment decision ever.’”

“It wasn’t the way things were supposed to work. The American dream of home ownership, the idea that a house should be a nest egg where money is stashed for growth, isn’t there anymore. It’s a dream that’s changing.”

“Five years after launching sales at San Diego’s largest condominium high-rise, the project’s Canadian developer is back to square one as it seeks state approval for a new marketing strategy that it hopes will finally bring residents to the still unoccupied building. Pointe of View’s challenges are daunting given a still-slumping real estate market in which newly built condos in downtown San Diego are competing with deeply discounted distressed properties that are priced to move quickly.”

“‘In the meantime, Pointe of View is facing a deadline this fall for paying off its construction loan. But with no sales, the developer is negotiating with its lender to extend the loan, said Brian Stoddard, president of Pointe of View. ‘We have to deal with the environment we’re all in right now, and we still feel strongly about the project’s ultimate success,’ he said. ‘But no one could have predicted the entire collapse of the real estate markets.’”

“Marin foreclosures dropped 18 percent in the second quarter of this year compared with 2008 as lending institutions took a step back in the current economic climate, a real estate tracking firm reported this week. Realtor Leland Spelman of Coldwell Banker in San Rafael… who only has been dealing with foreclosures and short sales recently, said, however, he has been swamped. ‘I’ve never been busier in my entire life,’ he said. ‘It only comes and goes in these times. We had probably 10 or 11 years without any foreclosures to speak of. It’s very interesting times with all that’s going on.’”

“(As) strategic director of Think Big Work Small, (in) Bill Hillestad’s online poll of industry professionals, about two-thirds of respondents said they had had at least one appraisal come in under the purchase price since the new rules took effect. Hillestad said the code has the potential to kill the country’s budding real estate recovery by depressing prices even more than the foreclosure crisis.”

“A Santa Cruz appraiser who used to have about 10 jobs a month says she is now lucky to get just one, as the management companies change the way work is doled out. And instead of being paid between $350 and $500, she might get just $200. The management company pockets the difference. ‘I’m sure there were a lot of crooked appraisals. But to put every appraiser basically out of business is not OK,’ said the appraiser, who didn’t want her name used for fear that she would jeopardize future work. ‘After having my business for 20 years, I’m about to lose my house.’”

“Five years ago, Brett Webber felt confident in his finances, and borrowed against his home equity accordingly. ‘We had tapped out every ounce of equity in our home, as many people had,’ Webber said. ‘We used it like an ATM.’”

“But complications arose with his business. Then the recession hit, further damaging his bottom line. And looming on the horizon was an interest rate reset that was going to make his mortgage payments unaffordable. That was when he went to the Housing Assistance Corp. in Hyannis, or HAC, which offers free foreclosure prevention counseling.”

“‘We pressed on and on and on, and finally, on June 5 of this year, I got my modification,’ he said. ‘My payments are basically cut in half for the first couple of years.’”

“There were 50 more foreclosures in Barnstable County last month than there were the previous month, an increase of 25 percent. And the 143 petitions last month are up from 130 in May. It is also possible that some lenders and borrowers that have been working together since the beginning of the Making Home Affordable Program are now starting to realize that a modification or refinancing is unlikely to work out.”

“‘After that length of time, you come to a decision point on both sides,’ said said Mary Miller, vice president for residential lending at Cape Cod Cooperative Bank. ‘Either it’s going to work or not.’”

“According to a report…in the second quarter markets from Westhampton Beach to Montauk saw a 58-percent drop in the number of houses sold since the same quarter last year, and the total sales volume dropped by more than 50 percent. ‘We are in a holding pattern — we’re waiting for the sellers to get with the program and lower the prices,’ said Peter Turino of Brown Harris Stevens in East Hampton.”

“As for where the prices should be, there have been so few sales that ‘no one knows what is unreasonable yet, all we know is they’re not buying yet,’ he said. With potential buyers beginning to check in, ‘we’re showing houses, but there are very few sales.’ Still, ‘at least we have live bodies in the car. The first quarter we were just sitting at the desks and we had nothing to talk about.’”

“After seven consecutive quarters of decline, the market for previously owned homes in the eight-county Philadelphia region remains woefully short of sales but is holding the line on prices. Who’s buying these days? Not first-timers, said Wharton research fellow Kevin Gillen, not even with the lure of an $8,000 tax break, because credit remains tight.”

“In Center City, ‘it’s people already here trading up,’ said Realtor/developer Allan Domb. ‘You sell for $500,000 and buy for $1 million. What was $600,000 is now $500,000, and what was $1.2 million is now $1 million.’”

“‘We’re still looking pretty good,’ Gillen said. ‘We’re just not a bubble market - our prices just doubled [during the real estate boom], while small cities quadrupled or more. We added just 11,000 new units in 10 years, while smaller cities built 20,000 to 40,000.’”

“July’s more than half gone. School starts in just about a month. Oh, and if you were hoping to catch the summer home-selling season, you can just about forget it. Almost a third of the houses still on the market in North Texas are sporting ‘price reduced’ signs in the hope of luring a late-season buyer. The latest housing market gauge by Altos Research found that the average sales time of a Dallas-area home was 115 days in June, up from 86 days a year ago. Maybe it’s time for another price cut.”

“Average list prices have actually gone up by about $20,000 in the last year. Maybe not all the sellers have gotten the message about the local home market. If the ‘for sale’ sign is still out front by Christmas, sellers should learn what it takes these days to sell a house – move-in condition and realistic pricing. Otherwise, they’ll have to wait. There’s always next summer.”

“Las Vegas is on pace for 40,000 existing-home sales and 5,000 new-home sales in 2009, but a second wave of foreclosures will continue to put downward pressure on pricing through the end of the year, housing analyst Larry Murphy said. Prices dropped 16 percent in the second quarter, same as the first quarter, he said. Murphy suggested earlier this year that median resale prices could drop to $100,000 in Las Vegas. He’s not saying it will happen, but it’s possible.”

“The worst overall performance was the 680-unit Meridian apartment conversion. Chicago-based American Invesco sold units new at $539,000, or $604 a square foot. The average resale is $87,600, or $121 a square foot, and 30 percent of the units went to foreclosure. ‘So if you made an investment you’re not happy with, at least you can say it did better than this,’ Murphy said.”

“John Beardsley is Portland’s first major commercial developer to see his properties move toward foreclosure. Beardsley’s defaults and developer Tom Moyer’s recent decision to halt construction of his 32-story office and condo tower, Park Avenue West, show Portland is following the same trajectory in commercial real estate as it did in the housing market: tracking national trends but arriving later to the recession.”

“‘The bottom fell out of the market,’ Beardsley said. ‘I’m a reality of it. Tom Moyer’s a reality of it. It’s a very sobering time. … This is significantly worse than the 1980s.’”

“Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke faced his second day of grilling Wednesday from members of Congress. Under questioning, Bernanke said many signs point to improvement in the housing sector, although he warned that ‘we’ve had false dawns before.’”

“‘We were not quick enough, we were not aggressive enough to address consumer issues earlier in this decade,’ Bernanke said in response to a question from Christopher Dodd, the Connecticut Democrat who chairs the Senate Banking Committee.”

“U.S. bank regulators took few public enforcement actions during the housing boom to rein in lending practices that resulted in soaring delinquencies and defaults when home prices began to fall in 2006. The Fed ‘utterly failed the American people’ as a regulator of bank holding companies, Alabama Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the banking panel, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. He called for ‘exhaustive hearings’ in the committee to examine the Fed’s actions outside of monetary policy to determine which powers the central bank should keep.”

“It’s ‘very clear that the existing structure for consumer protection’ by the Fed and other bank regulators has ‘failed miserably,’ House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, said today at a news conference with consumer advocates and other lawmakers. The Fed ‘will be the biggest institutional loser when we set this up,’ he said.”

“The credit crisis ‘has dragged the Fed into the political arena I am sure more than Bernanke wants it to be,’ said Paul Kasriel, chief economist at Northern Trust Corp. ‘When you do make a lot of errors, and big errors, that erodes your case for independence.’”

“Allow me to share with you the observations of a mortgage market analyst who has been plying his trade for nearly 32 years. In 1996, I warned (at the Mortgage Bankers Association’s Annual Convention) that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were ‘out of control,’ siphoning off mortgage banking revenue and likely to end in ruination, seriously harming taxpayers. In 2005, my partners and I were hearing about the rapid growth of non-prime lending—namely alt-A and sub-prime—and we launched a study to measure the size of this market as of early 2005. We were shocked by the results.”

“In apportioning blame, I start with the Federal Reserve …After the central bank, next up in terms of culpability is the federal government—both the legislative and executive branches and both political parties. The next guilty group resided in Manhattan along Wall Street. The incentives were wrong. Standard & Poor’s, Moodys and Fitch Ratings were like prostitutes who sold their favors.”

“The next most culpable in my view were the lenders…Names like Argent, Ameriquest, New Century, First Franklin and Countrywide come to mind. Near the bottom of my hierarchy of blame rest the originators—the brokers, the real estate agents … the street level participants.”

“In reviewing this presentation, my friend Richard Garrigan, a retired professor of real estate finance at DePaul University in Chicago, noted that much of the housing speculation could be traced to the Federal tax law change that occurred in the late 1990s. This change permitted a married couple to avoid up to $500,000 in capital gains on a primary residence after owning it for a minimum two-year period. Furthermore, a second home could be acquired and become a primary residence after the first home was sold. Think of all the housing demand this tax law change stimulated. Free capital gains and tax write-offs to boot. Again, the law of unintended consequences surfaces.”

“And so it goes … we now live with the aftermath and consequences…The challenge ahead is to crawl out as quickly as possible, then fill in the hole so we can never again stumble into the perfect storm.”

“At 74, Earl Shelton is the most robust of a vanishing breed – one of the million-plus that scrambled out of the dust clouds of the American Midwest during the dirty thirties to seek salvation in California. Shelton too has been wondering about then versus now. Wondering whether this formidable country still has the stuffing his kind had. The sheer stick-to-it-ive spirit to crawl back.”

“‘Times were harder then. Way worse than now. That’s a fact,’ says Shelton, who claimed his share of the American dream the old-fashioned way. Decades of hard work that began at age 7 here in the San Joaquin Valley, filling 23-kilogram sacks of potatoes. He married, bought a house that is now his, not the bank’s, raised a family bound for what everyone thought was a better life. Until now.”

“The housing market has tanked, but consumer confidence is improving. Is America in recession, or not? ‘Something’s different this time,’ Shelton says. ‘Americans are different. I call it the ‘Instant Generation.’ All these years, people want something, they just go get it, even with no money to pay for it. And now look at the mess we’ve got.’”

“Shelton remembers the journey with his father and three brothers in the old Model A. Losing a wheel on the way to Needles. And pulling up short in Arizona, where his dad was down to his last nickel – only to be saved moments later with the offer of paid work as a ranch hand. The barriers eventually broke down, as they always do. The Okies spread out, married. ‘I don’t have any answers about where this country is going,’ says Shelton. ‘But I know this: you don’t need a lot to be happy in this world. And here at Weedpatch, we didn’t have much – but we were happy. That’s the thing I want to say most. This was a good place. It made me who I am.’”




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125 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-24 10:17:22

Another great week! I appreciate the guest post and help with moderation and we’ve got more coming up. My thanks to those who support this blog and please check back this weekend.

Comment by Lenderoflastrersort
2009-07-24 15:10:57

‘But no one could have predicted the entire collapse of the real estate markets.’”

No one? I beg to differ.

 
 
Comment by InMontana
2009-07-24 10:33:26

“This change permitted a married couple to avoid up to $500,000 in capital gains on a primary residence after owning it for a minimum two-year period.”

Ooh, I remember that one. I was happy about it for my sake, but knew it was a bonanza for Realtors and wondered what hell it would unleash. LOL. I’m so glad I was too lazy and slow to do more than gawk at all the madness that ensued.

Comment by DennisN
2009-07-24 11:27:54

And I only got a $250K exemption on the sale of a house I’d lived in for 25 years. Thanks for descriminating against single people, government.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-24 12:14:49

You could’ve had a white wedding and cut them in on part of the
500k exemption then get an annulment.
Just trying to be creative. ;>

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-24 12:34:13

Discriminating against single people. Don’t get me started on that one. Just don’t.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-07-24 14:42:46

Not having to roll the proceeds of sale of a house into the next house + no money down loans were a disastrous combination.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-07-24 15:10:12

Then imagine what will happen if Obamacare passes.

Do you honestly think any childless man or woman is going to be top of the waiting list?

Don’t count on it. You’ll be among the first to be denied.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 16:55:04

You seem to be abnormally grumpy today.
You should drink more beer, and relax. Like me.
(hiccup)

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Comment by maus
2009-07-24 17:28:21

Wow, I could rant on this subject for hours. Between, taxes, insurance and travel the world is not set up for the single person.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-24 17:48:17

I love my girlfriend who happens to have 3 children. But, I was amazed that she pays no federal taxes and gets money back every year. Yes, if you make what they consider a low income you get a tax credit of some sort.

So here I am, no kids. Use less resources and have to pay taxes.

Government should be paying people like me since I had the good sense to not reproduce and clog the planet with more humans.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 18:17:18

Well, are these good kids, or are they bad seeds? You know, like they wear black ribbons in their hair and stash knives in their pillows? Because I imagine that should make a difference when it comes to tax credits.

:)

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-07-24 18:17:43

So here I am, no kids. Use less resources and have to pay taxes.

Yep, I had a coworker who used to taunt me about that. With the tax credits for his 3 children, he ended up paying very little in federal taxes. It’s something I personally find very frustrating, and rewards the wrong behavior (having many kids, that is)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 18:56:20

Yep, I had a coworker who used to taunt me about that.

Serious? Really? You’re not joshing just to be dramatic?
That’s sad. And for once I say this with a somber and collected and thoughtful face. I never like to see kids be in the hands of a crazy-man. I hope those three (3) kids get away from him soon.
And I bet they do, as soon as they are able.
So that’s good news!

…But anyway, my initial response was to robiscrazy, when I asked if his girlfriends kids were good or bad seeds? Let’s hear it, baybee. And also if she likes yer guns. :lol:

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-07-24 19:00:18

Serious? Really? You’re not joshing just to be dramatic?

Yes, seriously. Of course you’d have to know we had a playful friendship where we’d give each other crap about such things.

Even with all the tax credits, I wouldn’t trade that for having your kid run up to you in the middle of the store and punch you in the stones (a story he recounted one day). No thank you.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 19:12:48

Ummmm. Wow.

….Okay, so, rob? You like these handy kids?
Give us your thoughts. Maybe not now. Maybe later, when we’s all calmed down.
(minus the stone smacking episodes, por favor. :) )

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-24 19:52:18

My answer would be 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. The oldest has some issues, but he’s in the process of getting therapy and drug treatment.

His activities were exposed thanks to software we installed on the kid’s PC. Tracks every keystroke, email, chat, and myspace post. Drugs are more accessible than alcohol. One of his little 15 y.o. girl friends was dealing to him and I’ve got the emails to prove it. We’re going to jam her up bad with her parents and maybe even the cops if the parents don’t act.

Anyway, TMI. Taught the GF to shoot. She’s a better shot than me with a rifle. But, I’m still better with a pistol.

 
Comment by Suzyk
2009-07-25 00:42:53

Hmm …Rob ….ya scare me. You so should not be in these kids lives

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-25 18:49:20

Hey Suzyk, I’m very curious about two things:

1. Why does that scares you?

2. Why do you think I should not be in those kids life?

 
 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-07-24 11:39:19

“and wondered what hell it would unleash”

Look no further my friend! It’s like the old dishwashing liquid commercial w/ Madge ( You’re ’soaking’ in it! )

 
 
Comment by SMF
2009-07-24 10:42:30

‘Does it make sense to keep spending on an investment that is losing money every week?’

What, did you rent it for more than your mortgage payment? Huh?

That’s what so stupid about some of you people. You bought knowing that the rent for it would not cover your expenses, yet you call it an investment?

I’ve heard that way too many times.

Buy this for the chance to lose $$ every month!!

Idiots…

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-24 13:14:52

We have smart friends. They bought a condo for $350,000 in a bubble zone. They are renting it out for $1,100 a month. And are “just happy to have a renter”. The damage that most renters do can easily top $1,100 per month.

Owners do just as much damage to their places. They just have more of a tendency to fix things back up. That usually takes place on the weekend while I am drinking beer or napping. God bless all of you “owners” and that freedom you have to do yard work or home improvements on your days off. That is so much better than paying rent and enjoying your free time.

I’ll let everybody in on a little secret. Owning sucks! And my co-worker just had a big slice of property next to him that got rezoned to residential. The do-gooder crowd wants “affordable housing” (unlike all of the other politicians that want unaffordable housing). Of course they want this public housing in somebody else’s neighborhood. I guess that’s what a young family can expect when they only pay $500,000 in New Jersey. I’ll say it again. Owning sucks, pass the beer nuts.

Comment by The_Overdog
2009-07-24 14:14:05

Hey man, I like doing home improvements. Not home maintenance mind you, fixing pipes clogged with hair is no fun, nor is replacing wood that some stupid ant ate.

But painting, woodwork, and powertools are fun, and no one says you can’t do it while drinking beer.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-24 14:48:05

Power tools + alcohol = fun for the whole family

When I hear about people that enjoy painting and the like I always think about some guy dressed in a black leather outfit with a red ball in his mouth getting spanked by a 350 pound dominatrix. I guess different people enjoy different things.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-07-24 15:52:12

When I hear about people that enjoy painting and the like I always think about some guy dressed in a black leather outfit with a red ball in his mouth getting spanked by a 350 pound dominatrix

Faced with that choice, I’d vote for painting.

I agree with overdog, though. There’s a nice feeling of accomplishment with a project done right. Sure, it takes up a lot of free time. Never again do I wish to re-finish a 9′ vanity and prime, sand, paint, and mount new doors and drawers for it. But it felt good to finish, and enjoy the fruits of my labor.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 17:11:49

I love to paint stuff. I have about a zillion gallons of paint in my garage, and this weekend I plan on painting a giant cantaloupe on a picnic table I made from pallets. It’s gonna be super! And I shall drink a gallon of home-brew while I do it.

Anyway, what if it’s a skinny dominatrix? And then she makes you paint her front door, between spankings, because she changed her mind about the color, but her shoulders are achey and she’s tired of the whole da*mn lucky red door feng shui thing and is busy painting a giant canteloupe? A lot of you don’t really follow through with all the possibly permutations, I’ve noticed. That’s deplorably shallow thinking, there. Homeownership can be fun, as can painting with shackles on.

But painting, woodwork, and powertools are fun, and no one says you can’t do it while drinking beer.

This is probably the smartest thing I’ve heard all year.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 17:20:42

Ooops, italics off, sorry.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-24 17:55:00

Skinny dominatrix, paint brushes, spankings, shackles, cantalopes….

Thanks a lot for images. I’m going to have to drink heavily tonight just to clear them from the ol’ pea brain.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 20:27:00

See, now! Yer just losing my points, like I was just now saying!

Look. Talk to you later, I guess, if I can find my points, because I had some good ones, but then I lost them.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-07-24 21:29:20

“I’m going to have to drink heavily tonight just to clear them from the ol’ pea brain.”

????? I’m going to have to drink heavily tonight so that I can envision those things more clearly! :-)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-24 10:47:27

Ben, You really rounded up some good ones today, Thanks.

“It’s a dream that’s changing.”

‘But no one could have predicted the entire collapse of the real estate markets.’

‘After having my business for 20 years, I’m about to lose my house.’

‘We had tapped out every ounce of equity in our home, as many people had,’ Webber said. ‘We used it like an ATM.’

“As for where the prices should be, there have been so few sales that ‘no one knows what is unreasonable yet, all we know is they’re not buying yet,’

Murphy suggested earlier this year that median resale prices could drop to $100,000 in Las Vegas. He’s not saying it will happen, but it’s possible.”

“‘We’re still looking pretty good,’ Gillen said. ‘We’re just not a bubble market - our prices just doubled [during the real estate boom], while small cities quadrupled or more.

“‘The bottom fell out of the market,’ Beardsley said. ‘I’m a reality of it.

“In apportioning blame, I start with the Federal Reserve …After the central bank, next up in terms of culpability is the federal government—both the legislative and executive branches and both political parties”.

‘But I know this: you don’t need a lot to be happy in this world. And here at Weedpatch, we didn’t have much – but we were happy. That’s the thing I want to say most. This was a good place. It made me who I am.’”

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-24 12:28:19

..‘We had tapped out every ounce of equity in our home, as many people had,’ Webber said. ‘We used it like an ATM.’”

like an ATM? Really?

So, you thought long and hard before deciding you really needed cash.. it wasn’t for some petty purpose you could live without. Then you approached slowly while remembering how hard it is and how long it takes to build up a balance… Then you figured on withdrawing the least amount you needed, decided against that.. and withdrew even less.

 
Comment by X-philly
2009-07-24 12:41:18

“‘We’re still looking pretty good,’ Gillen said. ‘We’re just not a bubble market - our prices just doubled [during the real estate boom], while small cities quadrupled or more.

If house prices doubled in six years, and HHI did not, well then -yer lookin’ at a bubble, son.

from the Phila. biz journal article: the reason prices are holding the line is ’cause they don’t include condo prices in the calculation.

(I wonder why they don’t include condo prices, maybe because the legs are being cut off from under the condo market?)

nah…

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-24 13:17:56

If house prices doubled in six years, and HHI did not, well then -yer lookin’ at a bubble, son.

Your statement is completely clueless and asinine. House prices tend to rise at 12% a year in normal times. Just ask any “homeowner”. They will set you straight. Geez oh geez [CityBoy shakes his head in disgust].

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-24 13:55:05

Well eff me then…

thank you for opening my eyes to the truth about homeownership, I’ll be attending every open house in the area this weekend and writing deposit checks for two or three McCrapshacks. (one for self and the others as investments/future Section 8 rooming houses.)

I’m in the mood to “snap up” a “sweet deal”, since now is the right time to buy!

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Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2009-07-24 13:59:47

CORRECTION.

Housing prices tend to track wages and inflation.
The long-term trend is 4% per year, not 12%.

Sorry.
Real Estate is not an “investment” except during times of high inflation, when the FED flood the market with too much money.

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Comment by polly
2009-07-24 14:46:22

He was being sarcastic.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-24 14:49:05

Are you sure?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-07-24 10:51:30

American Invesco strikes again! Holy cow, they’re a dirty bird. Pumpin’ those condoze like there was no tomorrow.

I guess you could call $121 psf the day after tomorrow? LMAO!

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-24 10:56:03

But when you add in hoa fees, taxes and of course Luxuries like air conditioning, It still might be overpriced

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-07-24 12:05:50

I don’t doubt that a bit, but what were the pigeons that paid $604 psf thinking? Oh man that’s delusion!

I move that condoze be labeled a drug, with all the appropriate warning labels.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-24 12:37:51

What kind of pigeon would pay that sort of money? Not the pigeons in this neighborhood, that’s for sure. They squat where they want to. For free.

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Comment by Curt
2009-07-24 11:13:59

‘This is a classic bubble,’ Eyde said. ‘It’s turned out to be the most calamitous investment decision ever.’”

Calamitous…Calamitous…Calamitous

What a musical word!

Use it three times and it’s yours!

Comment by bink
2009-07-24 11:25:08

Careful, I heard if you say that three times fast Alan Greenspan appears and steals your wallet.

(put the response in the right place this time)

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 11:37:24

Don’t forget you need the ruby shoes and clicking your heels while wearing them.

Comment by DinOR
2009-07-24 11:55:49

Well where was his interest in charts and graphs -prior- to taking the plunge!?

Again, whatever they put down, dimes for donuts ( they took it back out? )

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-24 13:28:20

In the modern day Grapes of Wrath the Joads would have heloc’d the $hit out of their house before being foreclosed. They would have been much less sympathetic driving across country in their Ford Expedition with multiple DVD players for the kids.

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 12:29:29

Har!

I knew Greenie would find a way to stay in forever.

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-07-24 11:16:54

“Allow me to share with you the observations of a mortgage market analyst who has been plying his trade for nearly 32 years”

Dude, spare me. I don’t recall hearing your ilk complain in the slightest when rates were spiraling down. Not. one. As for your assumption that the “street level participants” are the ‘least’ to blame I can only say you need to spend -another- 32 years in the business “plying”.

Oh and thanks for gettin’ that barn door closed! I -hate- this after the fact guilt-cleansing we see now on a daily basis. ( Burn in HELL you f@g! )

Comment by bink
2009-07-24 11:22:27

Careful, I heard if you say that three times fast Alan Greenspan appears and steals your wallet.

Comment by bink
2009-07-24 11:26:21

Sorry, that was meant as a response to Curt’s comment.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-24 12:17:20

Well, it kinda works here too!

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Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 12:32:05

Let’s try it:

burninhellyoufagburninhellyoufagburninhellyoufag

 
Comment by Alan Greenspan
2009-07-24 12:35:14

Thank you very much.

(Disappears in plume of smoke)

 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 12:37:11

Hey, give that back, you old bag of raisin smells!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-24 16:35:32

My vote: Funniest HBB mini-thread to date!

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-07-24 16:40:16

My vote: Funniest HBB mini-thread to date!

aside from the implicit gay-bashing, sure…

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-24 17:19:27

I was approaching it more from the “WTF? Where did that come from?” angle…

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 17:23:27

Hey, give that back, you old bag of raisin smells!

That was a SUPER one! Thanks, Big V.

 
 
 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-07-24 16:30:35

( Burn in HELL you f@g! )

Can we keep the bigoted comments off the blog here?

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-24 17:04:58

Maybe he was saying “burn in Hell” like a cigarette burns (f@g is slang for a cig)?

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 17:31:41

Haha! That reminds me, last winter on a cold and rainy day in downtown Olympia I won a bottle of expensive wine from a lobbyist when I bet him that ‘fa*gg*ot’ used to mean: ‘a bundle of sticks’.
He could not believe that for one speck of time, so we signed a soggy coaster with names and dates attesting to our bet, and had the bartender witness.
(This guys is a lobbyist. Like I’m gonna trust his word? Not as far as I could fling a bundle of soggy f*ag*gots!)

Anyway, IIIIII won. And I picked out the most expensivist bottle that was handy. 79 bucks, plus the WA state tax. It’s in my pantry—I wouldn’t drink something that expensive! Jeeze.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-07-24 17:39:47

And I picked out the most expensivist bottle that was handy. 79 bucks, plus the WA state tax.

I was very surprised when I first went to the Costco here in Seattle that they had bottles of wine that were $80+. At Costco?! It’s nice, I suppose, if I liked drinking wine that expensive…but we certainly didn’t have anything that fancy in TX.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-07-24 21:19:07

Fagg@t is also the Italian word for a Bassoon. Unlike smaller diameter woodwinds, a Bassoon must be constructed from several staves of wood, so I guess it became known as a bundle of sticks.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by bink
2009-07-24 11:17:20

“Back in Eyde’s office, a graph shows a big bell curve of local housing prices, reaching its zenith around 2005 and then dropping down, down, down. ‘This is a classic bubble,’ Eyde said. ‘It’s turned out to be the most calamitous investment decision ever.’”

I’m still trying to figure out why even smart people who had no skin in the game could not or would not see this years ago. I remember touring houses with my agent, who would bring the listings printed out with her. I would repeatedly see junk houses with sales histories that made absolutely no sense. Sold in 1998 for $90k, sold in 2001 for $250k, sold in 2004 for $550k. For any other asset it would have been an obvious bubble, but “housing is different” or some junk. I refuse to believe people can be that blind (and I’m certainly not that much smarter), but I cannot explain this.

In 2003-2004 especially, I would have debates with folks and point out the disparities between income, rents, and prices in my area. It should have been like explaining basic algebra or the theory of gravity. Instead they’d force me to debate it like it was philosophy.

I guess I’ll go out for some good sushi/sake tonight and try to forget this whole episode again. Maybe I’ll work up the nerve to try Fugu soon. ;)

Comment by DinOR
2009-07-24 11:43:03

“Instead they’d force me to debate it like it was philosophy”

I ‘buy’

therefore I ‘am’

Well said. And like a feaking idiot, I ‘debated’ it like it was? You’d keep trying to show them charts and graphs but that was like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-24 12:13:38

or like bringing kappamaki to a weenie roast.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 17:48:15

Shall I be the first to admit that I know what ‘f*ag*g*ot’ used to mean, but I don’t know what ‘kappamaki’ is?

Oooh! Hey! Tell me quick! Then I can win another bet!
I just love that.

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Comment by X-philly
 
 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 12:39:23

Smart people know what a Bell curve is. The graph described in the article is most certainly not one.

Comment by First
2009-07-24 21:25:32

burninhellyoufagburninhellyoufagburninhellyoufag
——————————————————–

Smart people don’t make jokes like the above.

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2009-07-24 14:06:45

They didn’t get it because the swallowed the Nat’l Assoc. of Realtors(tm) propaganda that:
Housing prices have never declined nationally, which was basically true, but then prices had never escalated at such a rapid pace, and interest rate and terms had never been so ridiculous.

The conclusion the NAR sold was that you couldn’t loose in RE, even if it seemed prices were too high. They would only continue to go higher. Bullshit.
However, i can show you articles from the 1926 Florida Boom where people lost everything and wish they never bought into the get-rich-quick scheme.

That’s all this was……aided by the FED and CONgress.
It’s tragic, but no one in power wanted to stop the flow of easy money. It all seemed just too nice.

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2009-07-24 11:28:38

““‘We pressed on and on and on, and finally, on June 5 of this year, I got my modification,’ he said. ‘My payments are basically cut in half for the first couple of years.’”

And here is the new game; keep people in their homes trying to wait out the bottom and then throw them out. Cut in half his payments on the mortgage, now is his CC company going to do the same or better? What about his other debt? When he looses his job he’ll walk anyway, this is just another ploy by him to passively extract more equity out of the loan with government approval at the tax payers expense!

Comment by DinOR
2009-07-24 11:47:48

Ron,

I’ve beat my head against the wall trying to esplain’ that to locals. Look, the ’sellers’ are -still- calling the shots here. Are those mods anything more than a naked ( and brazen ) attempt to keep even ‘more’ inventory off the market.

(1) Portlander gets it! He went on to describe a story of a recent immigrant that is behind on no less than (5) house payments. ( Three of which she is successfully renting out! )

So ‘they’ have every option in the world. Free rent, walk-away, lease out and keep the “profit” etc. Make no mistake, whatever ‘else’ is going on, bottom feeders are *not* I repeat NOT in control.

Comment by salinasron
2009-07-24 12:16:45

“bottom feeders are *not* I repeat NOT in control.”

Just talked to someone last weekend who got it the hard way after loosing several houses or is in the process, lost majority of IRA money, had to come out of retirement to take an entry level job and will now have to work many more years just to make ends meet.

People here in the area are still jumping up to the plate to buy thinking things will be going back up but when this next round of foreclosures hit in Sept Mr. Edye’s house across the street from Hartnell College will take a new haircut. Any house around that area should be in the $70K to $110K range.

 
 
Comment by james
2009-07-24 12:39:13

I was going to remark on that little gem as well. Still some blood left in that guy. So, he is steered possibly into another ARM. Possibly with recourse? Who knows.

The bank is just minimizing their losses.

Also think there is some fear that the attitude change is getting more widespread. Basically people might become less consumptive and begin saving. I’m sure after the difficult situations people are getting into now, that will be far more mainstream for at least a decade. Perhaps longer.

Certainly a lot of people I know are really rethinking things.

People are going to learn not to trust the government is there to bail them out. Or the banker and the realtor are their friends. Remember what happened when you lost your job, the credit card company cancelled your cards and the car broke down?

So many people are going to be scarred by this.

See what happens when people get really serrious about thrift.

Feel like we are getting into the 6th inning here.

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2009-07-24 11:40:43

““A Santa Cruz appraiser who used to have about 10 jobs a month says she is now lucky to get just one, as the management companies change the way work is doled out. And instead of being paid between $350 and $500, she might get just $200. ”

Santa Cruz prices were going off the map and I can’t believe that she wasn’t a part of the problem. Now the system has changed and she didn’t save anything for a rainy day. Too bad but life is about to update her educational experience.

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-07-24 12:00:08

10 jobs a month? There are 172 billable hours in a month. Did each job take over two days?

 
Comment by CincyDad
2009-07-24 12:07:08

“A Santa Cruz appraiser who used to have about 10 jobs a month says she is now lucky to get just one,…”

The “kid” appraiser that came to my house for my Feb ‘09 refi said he was doing 6 appraisals a day. (all refis for long-time owners).

So this Santa Cruz appraiser worked less than 2 days/month?

Comment by DennisN
2009-07-24 16:06:33

You just don’t understand the Santa Cruz mindset. ;)

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 12:45:04

It doesn’t take longer than 8 hours to an appraisal, does it? So this lady was working maybe 10 days/month, getting $5k/month gross. That was a good deal.

I think that, just maybe, the reason she’s getting less work and less $$ today is that there is less demand for her services. When the same house isn’t being resold every 2 years, you end up with much less need for appraisals.

Sorry lady, but it looks like you’re going to have to start working full time to earn that full-time salary of yours.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-24 16:31:08

$5000 - $200 = ouch!

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 11:41:10

‘My payments are basically cut in half for the first couple of years.’”

So what happends after the first couple of years. Will this person be back to where he was?

Comment by bink
2009-07-24 12:13:03

But by then the housing market will have turned around and he’ll be able to sell!

*stifling a giggle*

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 13:56:49

This song may be appropriate for this man:

Working my way back to you babe
With a burning love inside
Yeah I’m working my way back to you babe
With a happiness that died
I let it get away, paying every day

When you were so in love with me
I played around like I was free
Thought I could have my cake and eat it too
Oh how I cried over losing you

For every day I made you cry
I’m paying girl til the day that I die
I’ll keep working my way back to you babe
With a burning love inside
I’m working my way back to you babe
With a happiness that died
I let it get away, payin every day

I used to love to make you cry
It made me feel like a man inside
But if I’d been a man in reality
You’d still be here babe lovin me

Now the nights are long and lonely
And I’m not too strong babe I just miss you so
And you’re too proud, won’t give in
But when I think about all I could win

I keep working my way back to you babe
With a burning love inside
I’m working my way back to you babe
With a happiness that died
I let it get away, payin every day

yeah yeah yeah

Working my way back to you babe
With a burning love inside
I’m working my way back to you babe
WIth a happiness that died oh how I’m cryin
Working my way back to you babe
With a burning love inside

-Frankie Valli

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 11:54:36

The American Dream
-by Big V

Last night, as I lie in my bed with my little head asoft upon my pillow and myriad stars shimmering cheerily down through my open window, I began to have a dream. The dream began as a huddled mass, TB-ridden, starving, dirty, and ignorant. The mass began to dissemble, and then emerged a daring few, who set out upon the waters to spread freedom across the earth. Brave and handsome were they. They built an arc, they did, and with this arc they traveled. To AMERICA, where they made a pact with God.

“God”, they says, “If you will just grant us this one wish, then we’ll never ever be bad and never ask for anything else ever again. We promise.”

“Oh, really?”, says God. “Fine then, what is it?”

“What we want more than anything else is to have the ability to use real estate as an investment so we can buy anything we want without having to produce a damn thing.”

God heard this wish, and was happy, for our God is a vengeful God, and he granted this wish, and we got it, and now we’re scrood.

-The End

Comment by tresho
2009-07-24 12:06:53

our God is a vengeful God, and he granted this wish
Are there any others up there? Hello? Can we get another wish? Hello?

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-24 12:23:24

Big V… peaceful dream. Any tossing and turning involved, night sweats? I say, you need some hore moans. I mean…never mind %>

 
Comment by wolfgirl
2009-07-24 14:50:29

That’s not my god she was talking about, but it does seem to be America’s god.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 16:12:34

wolfgirl,

Have you been watching Torchwood? Pretty darn good.

Comment by wolfgirl
2009-07-24 20:22:20

But a bit of a sad ending. We’re big fans of Dr. Who-all versions-Torchwood, Life on Mars, Ashes to Ashes, and Are You Being Served? And the original Hitchiker’s Guide.

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Comment by polly
2009-07-24 14:54:18

Oh, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Like the B. Kliban cartoon with the little bunny attacking a man with a flaming sword screaming, “Vengence is mine, sayeth the Lord.”

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 16:13:51

Did you eat your pillow thinking it was a marshmallow?

 
 
Comment by Out at the Peak
2009-07-24 11:59:14

‘But no one could have predicted the entire collapse of the real estate markets.’

I hate quotes like this. There were a lot of people who predicted, but people who say stuff like this did not listen. The media keeps printing “no one knew” quotes and that’s what the general public will remember.

Comment by Neil
2009-07-24 14:33:20

Ditto. When any of the people who SCREAMED at me to buy quote this, I ask them ‘why did so many people I know’ have a clue? Grrrrr….

” Oh, and if you were hoping to catch the summer home-selling season, you can just about forget it. ”

ROTFL

You mean they can enjoy homeownership squat for another season or two?

With stricter rules on appraisals (won’t it be great when FHA finally switches to the new rules?). Oh, hearing gettng Fannie/Freddie > $417k is tougher and tougher (Southern California). Quite a few local banks have stopped offering ‘conforming jumbos.’ Seriously, they will not do the paper.

The end is nigh

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by WA renter
2009-07-24 12:12:38

A lot of what HBB bloggers predicted has come to pass. Take a look at this link to B of A’s home loan site.

http://homeloans.bankofamerica.com/en/home-loan-experience.html&from=NHLE_YS_N&afid=2780&sourceid=NHLE_YS_N_IB_2;49855;2;362;2;2780;89130;626;;;;;;;;0;06152009;;;free%20mortgage%20calculator;P199432579;#closePopup

Click on the learning center and go to buying your first home, etc. it explains traditional debt to income ratios and more about getting a loan. Also if interest is the explanation of fico 08, the new revised fico:

“Home repossession forgiveness. If you’ve had your home repossessed, or have had a charge off made on a loan balance you owed (meaning that the account was delinquent for so long that the lender considered it a loss), FICO 08 lessens the negative effect to your credit. This part of the new formula is dependent on the fact that all of your other accounts remain in good standing.”

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-24 12:47:49

..House Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank.. said today at a news conference… The Fed ‘will be the biggest institutional loser when we set this up,’ he said.”

i dunno Barney.. If i had to make a choice between going to war with the Fed or the feds, I’d pick the feds. They’re broke. The other one has all the money.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-24 13:40:10

Yay. Barney Frank is on our side. I feel so much better. Woo hoo. And people wonder why I drink so much. Good lord!

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-24 13:56:46

politicians.. they put on their makeup.. the hairstylist trims a little.. their man lays out a suit.. they get dressed, get in the limo.. flap their gums a while, and, the grueling work of governing the country being taken care of, are off to meet their mistresses.. or mister-esses.

 
 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-07-24 12:56:41

From the Vegas article:

“I think prices will travel a narrow range — plus or minus 4 percent — for the rest of the year,” Bottfeld said. “I think we’re near the bottom of prices, I don’t care what anybody says.”

With his head in the Nevada sand, and abundant Joshua Trees native to his state.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 13:48:56

No AnonyRuss,

It should be “With his head in the Nevada sand, and a Joshua Tree sticking out of his ass”

Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-07-24 13:53:47

I was leaving something to the imagination.

Anyway, Bottfeld is insightful, I don’t care what anyone says.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 16:14:57

:grin:

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-24 12:59:44

…Shelton says. ‘Americans are different. I call it the ‘Instant Generation.’ All these years, people want something, they just go get it, even with no money to pay for it. And now look at the mess we’ve got.’”…

Shelton, you got it all wrong old feller..
You need to come to Ben’s Blog and ready the article preceding yours. It will explain how big business, banks, govt, mortgage brokers and the like are at fault for this mess. Everyone except the people.

 
Comment by gary
2009-07-24 13:10:38

hey i am all for trashing homebuyers..

but isnt there a time when 30k for a house in Phoenix might make sense.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2535-N-50th-Ln-Phoenix-AZ-85035/7494111_zpid/

i read an article go to county courthouse in maricopa and pick up some deals like 30k….anybody got info on Scottsdale and picking up 3or 4 BR for 80 k with pool?

anybody got specifics on courthouse schedule of auction foreclosures there?

Comment by Big V
2009-07-24 13:32:07

The most glaring caveat I see about this one is that it was not an arm’s-length transaction. It was probably some weird deal where the buyer ended up with $70k worth of leins, or it was an intra-family transfer or some such.

I think you need to look up more info at the county if you want to find out the whole story with this house.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-07-24 13:44:46

go to Barnes and Noble.. page through a couple books on tax lien sales / foreclosures. Read how thing are at the auctions.. how the pros do it… how stiff the competition is.
Unless you’re willing to study, work hard and make a career out of it you’ll drop the $$$ idea like a hot potato cause it aint worth it.

 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-07-24 13:46:05

I have felt comfortable in various urban settings, but I would not wander around Maryvale after dark. Maybe if you are affiliated.

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-24 13:57:32

affiliated…

Is that the same as “connected”?

Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-07-24 14:14:43

Yeah, in all seriousness, the Maryvale section of Phoenix has a great deal of gang-related and other violent street crime.

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Comment by X-philly
2009-07-24 15:48:13

That’s a huge pitfall with these properties bearing bargain basement price tags…If you’re not thoroughly familiar with the area, you don’t know that your neighbors on either side have hefty bags for curtains because they’re on the pipe. Or that the abode is in the middle of nowhere, flanked by a West Nile Virus hatchery on one side and alligators who lie in wait for breakfast (your kid) on the other.

Right now seems like prime time for so many out-of-town infestors to end up with bloody hands.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
Comment by Neil
2009-07-24 14:39:31

To pillage or not to pillage…

Seriously, kudos for 31 years of sticking to her guns.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-24 15:43:20

Man that was so good….loved it…..hot child in the city!

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-24 16:26:22

I would have loved to hear more detail about how she kept the city debt free.

What an interesting woman.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-24 17:43:24

That woman is ahhhhhhh mazing!

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2009-07-24 16:09:03

WOW! All I can say is WOW! Look on Redfin.com and choose SF bay RE. When the window opens type in Monterey CA and move the map around Monterey, Pacific Grove, Carmel, Carmel-by-the-sea, and Pebble Beach. Things are really starting to mushroom. Panic city and look at all the open houses this weekend!! Could it be that the high end properties are starting to get a clue. Maybe the lack of high end mortgage paper is adding fuel to the fire.

You can also do the same for the Salinas area. Many owner bought at $300K to $400K and are asking for $800K+ while other property that sold for $800K is coming on the market $200K+ lower.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-24 17:39:58

I like your wholesome excitement!
If you were handy I would pour you a beer! Or else I’d squirt you off with the garden hose. Whatever seemed best. :lol:

Seriously, though, I am starting to see signs of serious sadness amongst the baddies* around here, so I understand your joy. I don’t want to get too worked up yet, in case they decide to hang in there, mounching along, but…yeah.

*Developers, builders, and associated toadies.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-24 22:25:52

I love the smell of capitulation in the morning.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-07-26 14:20:48

Absolute Classic.

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-07-24 17:37:04

“Back in Eyde’s office, a graph shows a big bell curve of local housing prices”

Lol…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-24 22:24:33

“Home
The cosmology of our current financial and economic crisis
Mon, 2009-07-20 14:24 — Tom LaMalfa

Allow me to share with you the observations of a mortgage market analyst who has been plying his trade for nearly 32 years.”

Tom LaMalfa, American patriot, champion of the truth, who is not afraid to point fingers at the real culprits in the housing debacle and let them have a big piece of his mind…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-24 22:29:38

“The Fed ‘utterly failed the American people’ as a regulator of bank holding companies, Alabama Senator Richard Shelby, the top Republican on the banking panel, said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. He called for ‘exhaustive hearings’ in the committee to examine the Fed’s actions outside of monetary policy to determine which powers the central bank should keep.”

The Fed not only left the barn door open, but they doused the barn in kerosene, set it on fire, then shot all the horses for good measure.

And all Bernanke can come up with is a lame plea for the Congress to allow the Fed to conduct independent monetary policy. How about some kind of acknowledgment of the Fed’s role in helping the bubble inflate to gargantuan proportions, while completely missing or denying the process all along the way?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-25 02:46:37

Yes, we are hearing rumblings from Congress that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. There is hope.

 
 
2009-07-25 04:07:47

Good insight and quotes in there regarding the Philadelphia market. Although in the fringes around center city the first time homebuyer market has been strong.

 
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