The Housing Bubble

Ah, a renter in more ways than one, eh?

Actually these three (starting second year in August,) are quite humble about the prospect of taking on the huge responsibilities an MD entails. One is working as an orderly in a mental hospital to earn survival money during summer hiatus. Another is on bed-pan patrol at the VA. My impression is that all three view themselves as apprentices with a long road ahead–and none has a clue as to what branch of medicine they will eventually practice. Besides, these kids have known each other for years. Any pretensions that might surface are quickly derided and hooted into check.

The nascent Harvard economist, though? She’s something of a know-it-all.

Eud, help me understand: you believe that this is intentional, and that Obama wants people to riot so he can redistribute wealth?

I’m sincerely confused. Any clarification is appreciated.

The police officer did act stupidly. Read the account of the incident - both sides. At no time was the officer in the right to enter the home or harass the resident after he proved it was his home.

I am a professional upper middle class white male. And I’ve had enough encounters with arrogant police to set a firm impression in my mind. They are by and large arrogant ***holes.

Until this type of thing happens to you it probably won’t make sense - understandable.
The cop acted stupidly and was out of line. He should have put his ego down and left Gates property.

Indio adjacent, that is my impression with cops too.

THEY are by and large arrogant ***holes. Replace THEY with any other group and the generalization shows you to be as prejudice as those who love to hate.

Police have a tough job, yes some of them are arrogant, but they are necessary and they do have to project strength and use force. You can’t have a bunch of Barney Fife types out there without things turning to Mad Max in a hurry.

So you anti police racial apologist types have to decide which way you want things. Do you want the PC police or do you want cops that respond to every call with the necessary speed and aggression it takes to handle the potential dangers involved?

If I ever have to call 911, I want the latter. I would imagine you unarmed pacifist types would also.

If a cop breaks the law, violates your constitutional rights or it has been proven he/she acted purely based on race, then let the Internal Affairs departments and local prosecutors handle those incidents.

I agree with those who posted yesterday regarding there being a time to STFU and be civil.

Cash,

Excuse me, but wtf are you talking about? Pacifist? I’m a vet and would soon as hell punch you in the mouth as say hello after your rant.

You want to let the gestapo types trample your rights? Grow a pair.

My take, Gates was overly sensitive to perceived injustice (likely due to real injustices in the past) . Crowley the officer was quick to arrest and cuff. Neither will admit that they over reacted, let’s see what happens after the beer.

The generalizations on both sides of this are wrong. Yes SOME cops have a chip on their shoulder. I got pulled over for an out of date license plate that I had sent three checks in by mail for and they kept telling me they didn’t get them. I told the cop that I could show him my check book a block away. He said you live a block away your license says you live somewhere else (I had two addresses one at school and one at home where I lived 3 days a week). I tried to explain that to the cop and he said it looks like your window is cracked. I ended up with 4 tickets. I’m sure if I were black I’d be screaming racism but it was just a pissed off cop. The judge took all of 30 seconds to throw all the tickets out. Clearly ones prior experiences color perception. I don’t fault the cop for cuffing an angry person he didn’t know until he got things sorted out, but once he knew it was the guys home he should have explained his case in the car or in the house to minimize the percieved injustice and let the guy go.

“I’m a vet and would soon as hell punch you in the mouth as say hello after your rant.”

Thanks for your service. If you met me in person, I think you would chose to say hello.

“You want to let the gestapo types trample your rights?”

No, quite the opposite. You did not read my whole “rant”.

In case you didn’t know, Dave Ramsey used to be a REALTOR. ’nuff said

Well I’m back from tennis and the tennis was great!

Someone needs to tell Dave Ramsey (who is he again?) about debit cards.

while debit cards are good as cash from the consumer’s point of view, I learned the other day that the bank takes a % of the transaction even for debit transactions. Apparently it’s less than a credit card, but it’s still >0. So, cash is still the only option to keep the banks from skimming off the top (well, aside from interesting trades…)

Banks get a larger fee on debit card transactions that require a signature. That is why some bank checking accounts have incentive programs that require a certain amount of signed transactions per month to get your reward. Pretty sweet, ehhh?

Yeah, NYCB, I knew that running the debit card as credit (through VISA) resulted in a higher fee for the merchant. But I thought a straight-up debit transaction would result in no fees. It would appear I was wrong.

These days I make a comment when I pay for things..either with cash, or a debit card, and make sure they realize I’m consciously making a decision to try to keep their fees down, even though there’s no direct benefit for me. The shopowners are always very appreciative. Hopefully they’ll start modeling the same behavior, and we can start to cut the banks out of most transactions in the future.

Another good lesson gleaned from the HBB. I didn’t know my debit c was costing a %.
Dang.

The bank is out of my way and would cost more in gas/wear-tear..what to do, what to do…

Seriously, we get chgd for using the debit all over? or just in some places. Please edu-macate me!

Seriously, we get chgd for using the debit all over? or just in some places. Please edu-macate me!

I’m not sure, but I’d bet that the google is your friend. This has to be documented somewhere.

Just get cash back with a debit transaction. So then you can average one debit per 5 cash transactions, or something. Better than nothing, no?

I have heard Ramsey say many times that his family still uses a written budget. All I’ve done for decades is simply record expenditures & income in Quicken. The budget seems to take care of itself. Plus once everything is in Quicken, it is easy to go back to any period & find out what I’ve spent in any category. Let’s see - in the last 365 days I’ve spent $1527.51 on fuel for my F150. I’ve driven it about 13,000 miles in that time.

The sub standard companys are real P____s. So, we try them.

companys=companies. Can’t think this morning. Where I practice used to be the hot bed of litigation in the United States. Madison County, Illinois. Then, the propoganda machine started rolling, saying the Plaintiff’s lawyers were running the doctors out of town, (incessant TV ads), and,…it worked!

Now verdicts are way down.

Had the same problem in Texas. State law now caps malpractice rewards.

Insurance rates didn’t go up from lawsuits, it went up from of 20 years of bad investments.

Yeah.

but risks an MSG reaction…

Got any friends who recently had a baby? I read that if you put prenatal vitamins in your plants they go nuts. Tried it on a transplanted rhododendren bush which was dying in its original location That thing took off. I put about 4-5 pills in next to the root ball and watered profusely.

“Tried it on a transplanted rhododendren bush which was dying in its original location That thing took off. I put about 4-5 pills in next to the root ball and watered profusely.”

Now THAT is pretty cool. I want to try it just to see it for myself.

desertdweller,

I’m in Austin and it has been terribly hot and dry. The ground a few feet from my raised beds has cracks two inches wide.

I’m pulling out the tomato plants today except for one that has a handful ripening. Pulled out cukes, bell pepper, squash, bolted greens yesterday and composted. I’ll pour seaweed / fish emulsion stuff on the soil this evening and plant tomorrow. It seems too hot to plant anything, but I’m following the calendar on my nursery’s web site.

I think I can get enough second harvest basil to make pesto and I’ll plant some new basil for fall. My neighbor made great pesto with the first harvest. I’m looking forward to growing dill in winter, but I guess it’s not time yet to plant.

I’m leaving chard and eggplant, and will plant new ones along with mustard greens, kale, aragula, and lettuce. If I set up a plastic cover, I can harvest greens all winter. Later I’ll plant beets and winter squash. If my neighbor builds another raised bed, I’ll do a bed of just beets, onions, potatoes, and sweet potatoes.

Last year we ate beets and peppers almost every day for months, this year it has been chard and eggplant.

Well, that should have provided the filter with some roughage. Perhaps I should plant some senna too.

Let me know how it works out!

Is Cherokee Purple the heirloom tomato that gets really big and greenish purple & tends to crack? I love those things. Exactly. For some odd reason the Purples are keeping up with the Early Girls, but they’re not an early variety. They are so prone to cracking, I don’t see how they could be sold in a market. I usually let them purple up until they start to crack & then harvest them. I’ve never been able to get one completely purple before it cracks.

Cherokee Purple

Is that anything like Panama Red?

I feel mixed about this deal. I agree with you guys about the public probably getting hosed.

But here’s where I feel conflicted: There’s this beautiful house on the road my husband grew up on. He said as far back as he can remember it’s always been perfectly maintained, that is until a few months ago (after the current owner committed suicide).

Well, we drove by it the other day. The property is declining quickly with neglect. It’s always been a very valuable and cared for property (think Kunstler and property worthy of caring for) yet the bank is doing the very least possible for upkeep. They’ve got some moron mowing the lawn that can’t even seem to pull that off properly (probably some banker’s relative the way things work around here, a job well done never required for employment). I just imagined this multiplied by thousands of properties across our country and I felt this incredible sense of loss.

Some of these homes are worth saving. They should be auctioned off to the highest bidder and saved. Yet the banks will let them deteriorate rather than engage in price discovery until they will eventually have to be bulldozed. I just think the whole thing sux.

Personally, we have seen every house in foreclosure in our sub come out, the last one this very week. Some came out at better prices than others, but almost all were a deal. The best one was the bilevel that was knocked all of the way down to $ 67,000 for a 1900 sq foot, 2 1/2 bath house with a 2 car garage. Now that’s cheap. I think people, whether the diehards on the HBB believe it or not, are starting to search out these foreclosures and pick them up. Whether the house declined another $10 or whatever before eventually going back up, the highest price on the model was over $150K at the top, so that’s a pretty good haircut to take advantage of. I understand that many renters don’t want to ever buy a house, but there is some selective cherry-picking of foreclosures going on. I don’t think that all of the buyers are complete fools.

Until World War II came along the name for World War I was “The Great War”. Until World Depression II came along they called the old one “The Great Depression”.

See my links below. More information. Memos etc..

No argument from me. It was Rice who was objecting to the use of military force. Bush agreed.

Mr. Paulson, is that you?

Wow Joey, you packed a whole bunch of generalizations in that bit, and showed that you dislike some of the posters on this blog - once again.

Here’s something to put in your pipe and smoke; We have an economy in tatters. Record foreclosures, corporations dropping like flies, and our government debt is higher than any in the history of man. What’s not to love? Are you aware people are commiting suicide because of this stuff? That kids won’t be going to college and all sorts of life plans are on hold because of the mess the REIC and this government have caused?

But we should just watch Oprah and not say anything! No need to make an effort to increase public debate about what the heck is wrong with this system and how it might be improved. Actually, people who use critical thinking are probably terrorists, who should be tortured, huh Joey? But where would they find the people to do the torturing? I guess they could scan blogs for establishment toadies who despise anyone who complains about this wonderful system, and secretly want to stick bamboo under their neighbors fingernails.

“If only those Adams boys, and that Paine fellow would just shut the f— up. My life would be so much easier.”
- King George III

I guess they could scan blogs for establishment toadies who despise anyone who complains about this wonderful system..

It’s not too farfetched to imagine the FBI and CIA do something like that. One man’s terrorism is another man’s patriotism…
—-

Sometimes people just don’t think things through before they hit “Add Comment”.
I know the board has a lot of free thinkers and this place is often an outlet for people’s frustrations, but when the anti-America, anti-capitalist mob gets going and piles it on, it bugs me a little..

Often times posters don’t even realize what they are proposing… have no idea of the consequences and repercussions. A lot of times the weird propositions that spout from some people are exactly what Osama would say, or has said.
There are alternatives to our particular flavor of capitalism… but before promoting or supporting it’s downfall at least crack a book or two.

I think you get me wrong, anyway. I’ve been a libertarian (not the party, BTW) since I knew what politics and economic systems were. And I hope to persuade one of our guest posters to write on what happened with the housing bubble and if it was a failure of capitalism.

But when I talk with people about capitalism and how it should be gotten rid of, I always suggest that they show me what has worked better. We are far enough away from the Soviet Union and other communist regimes that many have forgotten how awful they were. But I haven’t. I remember walking around in Nicaragua back in the 80’s, with teenage girls in uniforms holding assault rifles and empty skyscrapers with curtains flowing out the broken windows on every floor. All that said, it is an important part of a free system for there to be healthy debate. And I think one of the early presidents of the US mentioned something about periodic revolutions being a good thing.

Sometimes people just don’t think things through before they hit “Add Comment”.

That’s funny. When I read your posts I was thinking the same thing.

Now just a minute. You say “teenage girls in uniforms holding assault rifles” like it’s a bad thing. As I recall, at the time, you were more likely to find and assault rifle than a refrigerator in a home in Nicaragua. Free (wo)men own guns.

Hey, you going to visit Mia this evening?

joeyincal- anti-America, anti-capitalist -
No one is those things. Many here are fed up with excessive greed and avarice.Fed up with people and corps getting away with unfettered theft, not good old business, but theft of the best of the US.
But it sounds like you are anti-Am, if you want all of us to shu t or go away.

I don’t have you right or wrong or one way or the other.. you haven’t posted enough for me to get a fix on you.
Seeing what you allow to be posted on the blog, it follows that you’re a libertarian. I doubt you censor anything aside from obscenities and psychotic ramblings..

Definitely.. healthy debate is where it’s at.. And when I detect a thread or topic or atmosphere that lacks healthy debate due to the formation of an agreement orgy, i sometimes feel inspired to throw a wrench into it and shake things up a little. If you don’t want me to do it anymore, i can live with that..

joey,

I’ve always considered you a sh*t distribuer. I’m saying this in a good way. I don’t agree with every thing you say. Some times you piss me off. However, some of your postings do get me to look at things differently.

So if my vote counts, please continue to be a rabble rouser.

Joey, you implied that Al Qaeda finds recruits on blog such as this. That is a pretty huge wrench you threw in. You should have expected to be taken out to the woodshed on this one.

The people that want the complete collapse of polite society are certainly a minority. Personally, I think we need a revolution. But I want a revolution of ideas, not of bullets. I think something more akin to The Renaissance would be what I want to see, not Russia 1917. Of course that was more of a coup d’etat than a revolution.

The bankers in charge have stolen more treasure than any pirate could have ever imagined. They are the ones that spoke of societal collapse and martial law. They are the ones that spoke of the need to hand them hundreds of billions of dollars or they would collapse the economy. Even recently some POS apparatchik from the Federal Reserve hinted that they would crash the economy if they were forced into opening up their books by Congress.

I love rants. I love anger. I love freedom of speech and freedom for people to say stupid things. I think your rant was really misguided. If you want to rail about the most destructive amongst us then you need to get your a$$ down to Maiden Lane and Broad Street. If you need directions I can tell you exactly how to get there.

Keep spouting off. It is really great. But expect to be challenged when you do.

Joey, “psychotic ramblings” seem to be ok. Otherwise Ben would have banned me.

And I think one of the early presidents of the US mentioned something about periodic revolutions being a good thing.
Not a good idea, IMHO. The USA had a failed revolution. Some called it the Civil War, others the War Between the States, others, the War of Northern Aggression. Last night I did some background reading on a big cemetery I visited in January, called Andersonville. In just a few months about 13,000 white American POWs died there of starvation & disease, not in battle. To avoid their hideous fate, all they needed to do was change sides. Virtually none of them did. Of course, black POWs were simply enslaved, and may well have been physically better off for it.
In other parts of the world (like Afghanistan) they don’t have revolutions, just various tribes & groups fighting each other over who gives orders & who takes them. That has been going on for centuries. Government by consent of the governed & live-and-let-live are utterly foreign concepts there.
I continue to prefer discussions & attempting to change hearts & minds peacefully.

desertdweller..

I’m sure there are very few (if any) people here who want to see America go up in flames.. but that’s sorta my point.

There’s not a lot of difference between “Death to America!” and “The American system is unfair, corrupt and evil. Trash it!”

Both sentiments promote exactly the same outcome.

NYCityBoy..

If you described the revolution’s outcome in your post, i missed it.. I mean, what sort of system is supposed to emerge once the Renaissance happens.

Ranting is fun.. venting anger is healthy.. but we should think ahead a little before trashing what we have, no?

I’m pretty sure you think bankers shouldn’t be “in charge” in the future.. does that mean people who control money won’t have power? Will we have a system where money and politics don’t mix? Or will there be no banks.. or will there be no big banks? Will there still be money? Will we be allowed to buy stock? Can we still borrow money for a house? Will people be any smarter with their money than they are today?

I’d like to see the blueprint of our brave new world..

For me I wouldn’t worry to much about Al Queda finding recruits on this blog or in the US. I would worry more about the far right and far left finding their recruits to bring about the destruction of America.

Are you insinuating that the views of the those on the far right and far left are any less valid than other people’s.. that they should be persecuted for their views or locked up because they might hurt someone? Should extremists not be protected by the same laws and given the same rights that the rest of us are? Should Ben censor their posts?

just playin with ya….

but seriously, i think those people add something valuable to the mix.. they keep us on our toes if nothing else.

“There’s not a lot of difference between “Death to America!” and “The American system is unfair, corrupt and evil. Trash it!”

Both sentiments promote exactly the same outcome.”

There is a big difference between then endorsement of legitimized killing of innocents, women, and children and the installment of a theocracy vs the endorsement of enforcing laws against fraud, extortion, and racketeering and common sense banking rules.

I for one fail to see how there is ANY similarity between those positions. You are way out of line.

Indio-adjacent..

Osama does see fraud, extortion, and racketeering in America. He sees it extending beyond our borders and affecting the Islamic world. That’s been his big gripe from the beginning. He doesn’t like our system.

His methods of fighting it are different than yours but the goal is common. His interpretation of fraud and extortion might differ from yours but the interpretation is directed at the same institutions.. american politics.. wall street.. banks..

You may have more in common with him than you think..

Whether or not fraud, extortion and racketeering actually exist to the degree that the system needs to be torn down is a matter of opinion…

joey,

Views are fine with me. When they turn into bombings and killings they need to be brought to trial and tried for their crimes.

If you described the revolution’s outcome in your post, i missed it.. I mean, what sort of system is supposed to emerge once the Renaissance happens.

I have a very revolutionary idea. Back in the 18th Century a group of men wrote up a document called The Constitution. Let’s get back to it. That would be perfectly fine for me. That would limit the powers of the men and women that are currently running wild. It’s not that complicated. Bush and Cheney dumped on The Constitution. The Democrats are doing the same thing. Enforce that law of the land and we will have much less to talk about.

i like your answer, NYCityBoy .. nothing to add to it.

…but being the hell raiser that i am, i will anyway.

How in heaven’s name are we supposed to return to the days when the Constitution was respected and followed?

People who think the way we do are in a distinct, tiny minority.
Left to it’s own devices, the will of the common man will assure that the Renaissance results in a system that follows the Constitution even less than it does today.

SanFranciscoBayAreaGal

One can view the range of political views as a bell curve.. lots of like-minded people in the middle and fewer as you go outwards.. at the ends are very few people.

Suppose we somehow chop off the ends. The most extreme views at the left and right no longer exist..

Well, not exactly. There are still “ends”. People at the “new” ends we created are the new crop of extremists. They hold the wildest and least conventional views. A far right and a far left still exists. Are they the next target?

ok… we keep chopping the curve shorter and shorter.. Eventually, everyone thinks alike.

You missed what I said.

Views are fine, however when the far left or far right use bombs and killings to get their point across, they should be brought to trial and tried for their crimes.

Central bank charters have been revoked or not renewed several times in the history of America (one was just prior to war of 1812 and the other?). Why can’t we just disband the Federal Reserve and move on?

In General, we can do anything we want. We can revamp a system. We can throw it out and replace it. We can tweak the existing plan. We just have to accept that there will be a transition period and consequences.

Or……we can follow the rules in place. There’s a system in place to handle distressed properties. The standard foreclosure process that’s existed for years is being ignored.

Use the existing system as intended and you’ll move properties to people who can afford them. Of course, the consequence is deflation in housing prices, failed financial institutions, losses to investors holding MBS paper. But hey, that was they way things were designed. Homes and MBS are NOT FDIC insured. You gamble on real estate and investments and you loose.

So, maybe our problem is that we are ignoring the American way. Maybe we all need to follow the rules and take our lumps.

” We are far enough away from the Soviet Union and other communist regimes that many have forgotten how awful they were. But I haven’t. I remember walking around in Nicaragua back in the 80’s, with teenage girls in uniforms holding assault rifles and empty skyscrapers with curtains flowing out the broken windows on every floor.”

I remember watching the Soviet and East German female athletes in the Olympics and that was scary enough without assault rifles.

Over fall break, I watched with fascination as Barbara Walters interviewed women from the East German Swim Team on 20/20, women once known as “wonder girls” for their amazing abilities. While training for the 1976 Olympic Games, these women, then adolescent and pre-adolescent girls, were given, unbeknownst to them, anabolic steroids to enhance their performance. (1). The “wonder girls” won virtually every gold medal they competed for but now, years later, they, and their children, are suffering from the steroids given to them. The women experienced birth defects, enlarged hearts and gynecological problems; one former swimmer said that she had seven miscarriages. (1) Under a national plan, “State Plan 14.25,” the East German government “called for the administering of male hormones to male and female athletes.” (2) The swimmers, and many other Olympic athletes, took the German manufactured steroid Oral-Turinabol, believing they were vitamins. (3) Having heard the testimony of these women

sorry SanFranciscoBayAreaGal .. the T-bone was washed down with wine..

but lemme ask you something.. Who do we know uses more bombs and killings to get their points across.. the Left, the Right or the Center?

T-bone, my favorite cut of steak. What is your answer to the question.

screwed that up.. it’s bound to cause a debate the way the question was posed.

Who do we know uses more bombs and killings to get their points across.. the far Left extremists, the far Right extremists or the Center?

My answer?

Seems to me the Center has used deadly force to get it’s point across far more often than anyone else… the ratio of deaths might approach a million to one if wars approved by the general consensus of the people are counted..
Not just in this country but everywhere..

There are many instances of leaders the world over starting off as radicals.. (Left? Right? Who cares) Then they attain power and their views are automatically moved to the center. Then they kill lots of people.

Joey for torture tzar…

(Oops — I just hit the send button before thinking)

I find that ironic in the context of this thread.

Well, it’d be bad to assume that the same people posting in this thread are against the militarization of police. Any generalizations like that are generally a bad idea, IMO. Unfortunately you see it a lot on the internet :/

Personally, I’m against the militarization of the police and of having troops deployed domestically. That’s what the National Guard is for, and they’re supposed to be controlled by the states. Unfortunately, the state Governors gave that authority to the CiC, so many got shipped overseas.

There’s more than a few guys showing up at a local guard center around here on weekends.. hundreds at least. Gotta be 10’s of thousands of them across Calif. The forest fire fighters often call on them.. I bet a few could be siphoned off to fight some terrorists if the PTB thought it was a good idea.

I guess the core questions are … whether or not Al Qaeda is at actually war with us or not.. and if so should we treat them like a military enemy or a civilian enemy. And if they’re military, can we legitimately fight a military enemy that has managed to infiltrate our borders with our own military forces..

can we legitimately fight a military enemy that has managed to infiltrate our borders with our own military forces..

The answer clearly is ‘yes’. Look at the civil war. (then again, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, so maybe that’s not the best time period to use as an example).

I would argue the question is a bit different. Apprehending/arresting suspected Al Qaeda operatives is different from military combat/battle. Who should be in charge of the former task?

Honestly, I’d feel more at ease about the military being used domestically if I had greater faith in those who are serving to question their orders and defend the Constitution first and foremost. I’m encouraged by stepn2me’s comments (I belive that’s his nick….i’m close, if anything), but I don’t get the feeling that the “rank and file” spend much time contemplating such things.

Overreacting to al-qaeda etc is exactly what they want us to do. To militarize our whole society is their goal. They despise our freedom because it frightens them, fascinates them, and calls into question their deepest beliefs. Joey is one of their better (unaware) agents.

They despise our freedom

While I agree that further militarization is us losing and “them” winning (though I think we’ve already “lost” based on all that has happened in the last 7.5 years), I just don’t buy the “they hate our freedom” argument.

I can’t say why exactly we’re hated (seeing as I’m looking from the outside), but I just don’t see people saying “look at those free people over there…..let’s kill ‘em!!!”

They hate the success of our free societies vis-a-vis their miserable societies. They hate that they too secretly want to party down with Paris Hilton. These things cause them to doubt the certainties they live by, and doubt is something fundamentalists of any stripe cannot tolerate.

..I can’t say why exactly we’re hated..

Nobody can for say for sure.. we’re hated for a lot of different reasons depending on locale and the time of day.

But Osama has expressed his view. He thinks the West is stealing his country’s (SA) natural resources. He left SA when he was unable to affect any change. The Saudi leadership likes things the way they are for the most part.

At one time around about 2002 or so, if memory serves, Osama said he wanted to see oil selling for (get this) $140 a barrel. He felt that was about right. At the time, crude was going for something like $20 a barrel.
—–

But you can’t get an army to be effective against absolutely impossible odds, and sacrifice their lives kamikaze style for the sake of someone else’s money. You need to demonize the enemy. And then your enemy can become your army’s enemy.
You gotta convince your army that the enemy is less than human in some respect, or that they are the tool of the devil (if you wanna take the religious route), among other techniques..
That part wasn’t difficult.. his army was a bunch of religious zealots and still living in the 12th Century and were easily manipulated.
——

Why does (or past tense, if he’s dead) Osama hate us? IMO, because he thinks his oil is getting ripped off. Why does Al Qaeda hate us? Because they’ve been convinced that the West is decadent… immoral.. and yet we absolutely thrive.

They believe that Allah has to be displeased with that situation, and that it’s the duty of every good Muslim to carry out Allah’s wishes… which must mean the West has to be brought to it’s knees by whatever means..
Does Al Qaeda know they were manipulated into Jihad by their own leadership for the sake of driving up commodity prices? If not it’ll probably dawn on them sooner or later.