Bits Bucket For July 30, 2009
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.
Great news! We are on track with our “jobless” recovery.
May-June joblessness up in 90% of metro areas.
WASHINGTON — More than 90% of the nation’s largest metropolitan areas saw their unemployment rates climb in June from the previous month.
Some of the biggest increases hit college towns, where the annual summertime exodus of students causes bars, restaurants and other businesses to cut staff. The Detroit area, hit hard by manufacturing layoffs tied to the beleaguered auto industry, also got stung in June.
Unemployment rates rose from May to June in 348 of more than 370 metro areas, according to an Associated Press analysis of Labor Department data released Wednesday.
The figures aren’t adjusted to account for seasonal trends, such as lifeguards hired during summer or retail clerks let go after the holiday shopping season. So they tend to be volatile from month to month.
The Labor Department does not provide seasonally adjusted metro area unemployment data. It does adjust the national unemployment rate for seasonal factors. The U.S. jobless rate, which hit 9.5% in June, is expected to rise to 9.7% when the department reports the July rate next week.
Wow, more ‘unexpected’ good news. I’m sure the PTB will say things are going according to the plan.
Unemployment spreads distress in U.S. home loans. 7-30-09
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Cities in the U.S. Sun Belt states of California, Florida, Nevada and Arizona dominated the record foreclosure spree in the first half of the year, but distress in other regions emerged as joblessness spread, RealtyTrac said on Thursday.
Metro areas with populations of at least 200,000 in those four states accounted for 35 of the 50 highest foreclosure rates.
Mortgages have failed the fastest in the areas with the greatest overbuilding, purchases by speculators and reliance on riskier loan products to improve affordability.
But the source of the mortgage trouble has swung from lax lending standards to unemployment.
Some of the areas with the most severe foreclosure activity have started to show improvement as price cuts and first-time buyer tax credits lure purchasers.
With the unemployment rate near a 26-year high and many employers cutting wages, more consumers in areas that were initially spared in the foreclosure explosion are now behind in their home loan payments.
More than 20 percent of areas with above-average foreclosure activity were in Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Arkansas, Illinois and South Carolina in the first half of the year. That shift points to growing unemployment more than to fallout from subprime and adjustable-rate loans, RealtyTrac said in its midyear metropolitan foreclosure market report.
While total foreclosure activity kept rising, “some of the markets that had the highest saturation of foreclosures over the past few years have seen declining rates, while new markets like Provo, Utah, and Boise, Idaho, have seen large increases,” James J. Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac, said in a statement.
“As unemployment rates increase in different parts of the country, it’s very likely that we’ll see similar patterns develop elsewhere,” he said.
Zero Hedge
Spin Me a New Job- Call it What You Want, Stimulus Jobs May Be Just That- Spin.
Submitted by Travis on 07/28/2009 06:01 -0500
According to an article published by the Associated Press- in Oregon, for example, lawmakers spent $176 million to supplement federal stimulus and Democrats take credit for creating over 3,200 jobs in the program’s first three months.
Associated Press’ Ryan Kost writes-
“But those jobs lasted on average only 35 hours, or about one work week. After that, those workers were effectively back unemployed, according to an Associated Press analysis of state spending and hiring data. By the state’s accounting, a job is a job, whether it lasts three hours, three days, three months, or a lifetime.”
With unemployment rising and many Americans struggle to make ends meet, the “inventive” math/language (to say the least!) encourages the urgency for politicians to show that stimulus spending programs are working, even if it means outright lying. Or fudging the statistics.
He!!!!yeah…i got 8 jobs offers last night….and they are all the same:
Hello
I saw your Job advert on Craigslist. If you are are still looking for work you can try Forex. I have been using it for 2 weeks and I am making about $200 a day. Here is the link http://www.d6327.com/forex
eyeballs eyeballs eyeballs eyeballs
Have you considered becoming a “secret shopper”? I see ads for mystery shoppers all the time so there must be lots of demand for this lucrative field.
That’s what Cordelia qualified for on Careers Day at Sunnyvale High.
Its a sad day today Rev IKE died……who is Rev Ike?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-dXg5fChI
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5115667/13562736
It’s not the ‘jobless recovery’ that stings so much, it’s the ‘incomeless lifestyle’ that goes with it.
Who needs jobs when we have a fake stock market.
Exactly. And, I noticed that the scam market is rocketing up today with oil, yet again, spiking. How can oil can drop nearly $5 per barrel yesterday on news of exploding inventories (an increase of 5m barrels instead of the expected 1m), and then turn on a dime and go up $4 per barrel today when the glut still exists?
“You cannot have a recovery without an expanding jobs market and we are going the opposite way.
Quote from Global Research. Gee, it makes sense, doesn’t it? A “jobless recovery”. I wonder who came up with that asinine phrase.
Oops, misattributed this one. It’s from Bob Chapman at International Forecaster.
“Oops, misattributed this one”
Had to read that twice, thouht you said something else.
“Had to read that twice, thouht you said something else”
And what would that be?
Each and every Obama policy and plan made and will make the economics FAR FAR WORSE.
Defending Obama is like defending bone cancer at the hospital.
But for the enlightened O-bot crowd it’s all OK because their INTENTIONS were to make the world better by voting in a narcissistic Kenyan Marxist.
narcissistic Kenyan Marxist
That went over the head of every ACORN supporter and employee..
Dang,
You really need to swallow that bitter pill or let it dissolve away.
Yes Cobalt
Despite the fact that Hawaii verifies his birth certificate and the fact that two local newspapers reported his birth and are available for viewing he is a Kenyan????? You guys are F’n crazy.
Yes everything Obama has done will make the situation worse??? The reality is there isn’t anything that can make the situation worse. After the neutron bomb has gone off you’re pretty muched F’d no matter what. I’m against his bank bailout’s but all for gov creating jobs, extending unemployment, and cutting taxes. Why? Unemployment and poverty lead to crime, social decay, and extremism. I don’t want to step over dead/starving homeless people on my way to work. I don’t want to be a dead/starving homeless person.
“The reality is there isn’t anything that can make the situation worse. After the neutron bomb has gone off you’re pretty muched F’d no matter what. I’m against his bank bailout’s but all for gov creating jobs, extending unemployment, and cutting taxes. Why? Unemployment and poverty lead to crime, social decay, and extremism. I don’t want to step over dead/starving homeless people on my way to work. I don’t want to be a dead/starving homeless person.”
As I said, everything he supports will make things FAR FAR WORSE.
To see Obamanomics in an advanced stage, look at Zimbabwe. If you really think nothing can make this situation worse, you’ll be unpleasantly surprised soon. Quadrupling the deficit in less than six months was completely counterproductive, and will lead to more unemployment, crime, decay, and dead and starving people in the USA and around the world. Dismantling and discouraging private enterprise and replacing it with Government agencies, programs and jobs will DESTROY wealth and real solutions and lead to increased crime, decay, and poverty, starvation and death.
And it is EXACTLY the widespread mentality, that “Well, he can’t make it any worse”, that guarantees it will get MUCH MUCH worse. When unemployment is at 40% and inflation at 30%, note that you heard it here first: Obamanomics is far far worse than anything you have ever seen in your lifetime.
As I said, everything he supports will make things FAR FAR WORSE.
What should the gov be doing?
Look up “birther” in Wikipedia and you’ll get all the links you want.
oops, that was for Lehigh Valley guy, below.
I recall that those “private enterprises” were in the process of dismantling themselves quite efficiently.
What should the gov be doing?
Shrinking.
Hawaii verifies his birth certificate and the fact that two local newspapers reported his birth and are available for viewing
Could you hook us up w/some links here?
Could you hook us up w/some links here?
Snopes
“Aside from the inherent absurdity of such claims (i.e., that a major party presidential nominee would risk his entire candidacy on a fraud that could be uncovered simply by a check of state health records), the supposedly incriminating details don’t pan out”
Thanks. X-Philly, your turn.
I replied to Muddyfoot below, the post included a blockquote so it may take a while to appear.
X.
Other than this desperate little news cycle diversion being really and truly pathetic, (I don’t have a “long form” BC either, and my family built downtown LA,) do you really and truly want Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi running our country?
Really?
I’d just like to see his passport. How many of you guys went to Pakistan on spring break? Barry could settle all of this if he’s open up his info lockbox. What’s he got to hide?
This is from a commenter on noquarterusa.net, which just happens to have a discussion today regarding the missing birth certificate - not the certification that has been provided as proof of citizenship.
It’s the lack of available information that is casting shadows of doubt on this POTUS who campaigned on the promise of transparency. If his office had just supplied a Birth Certificate - which contains information that a certification does not - the questions surrounding his citizenship (or parentage) would be laid to rest.
X-Philly:
All that stuff is public information. If you don’t trust the established legal and political system to have done its due diligence, then do it yourself.
I believe that numerous individuals have attempted to obtain that information by “doing it themselves”, and have failed. Either by being stonewalled or by the records just being unavailable.
Do you trust the “established legal and political system?”
X-Philly:
Since you are the one questioning it, I think the onus is on you to go about looking for these public records.
Do you seriously think the Republican party allowed the Democrats to seat an unqualified candidate? If there were any basis to this claim, the man would have been thrown out on his ear in a very embarrassing and public manner before the election ever occured.
Seriously.
It’s the lack of available information that is casting shadows of doubt on this POTUS who campaigned on the promise of transparency.
Interesting.
Again, as with my quick Google search for evidence of Obama inciting violence against Hillary, all of the results in the first pages of a quick search for “Obama’s missing documents” are from bloggers, opinion pieces and comments.
Nevertheless - where is the MSM interest in this and the official refutation/explanation of that rather long list?
Stay tuned…
So….If Obama were to be ruled ineligible, wouldn’t Biden then become prez? What would change? (Except we’d be back to having a white guy in the White House. Is that the point?)
Oh please. That’s all we need is to have Talkin’ Joe become President. Obama picked Biden for the same reason Bush 41 picked Dan Quayle: for insurance against assassination.
Personally I’d love if Biden became president. He’d get a lot less accomplished than Obama, which IMO would be a very good thing.
The reality is there isn’t anything that can make the situation worse.
Of course there is. All of the debt that Obama has gleefully thrown at our problems has to be paid off on the backs of our children or by sending them to war. As always, actions have consequences.
Hawaii did not verify his birth certificate. Some random official claims she saw it. Big difference. I personally could care less about his birth certificate (much more interested about the messiah’s grades myself), at that age he had no control over the situation so there’s no intent on his part. But these random claims that they “saw” his birth certificate cause me to doubt it - but like I said, I could care less. Hawaii is proud to claim him as their own (success has a 1000 fathers and all that) and the home where he grew up has become a minor tourist attraction so local officials would definitely not want his image tarnished, given that the state is so dependent on tourism and its down quite a bit over the past 18 months.
tsk, tsk…to think…you almost had…McSame: “we’ll will stay in Iraq for… 100 years!”
Not to pick a fight here, but I’m not sure McCain was wrong. How long have we had troops in Korea, Japan, and Germany? All from conflicts that occurred before I was born. The better part of 100 years? We have generations of troops stationed in these places.
He might have been right, but that’s the point - do we want to spend money to station troops in Iraq for 100 years when we have domestic issues to worry about?
When are we sending in troops to Goldman Sachs? We need to topple the dictatorship and bring back democracy and freedom like we did in Iraq. The evil-doers at Goldman need immediate eradication.
@100 Billion $$$$$$$$ a year…should have not any economic effect back in the US of A…
Cheney-Shrub Legacy Effect # 239: “Hey, will these desert camouflage IED armored Hummvee’s work in Boliva & Columbia?”
We have generations of troops stationed in these places ??
Which prompts the question, Why ??
+1, Pressboard. That alone is reason enough to end the war(s).
I never said it was a good idea. I just call them as I see them.
I must agree scdave. Why?
“Beyond the Euphrates began for us the land of mirage and danger, the sands where one helplessly sank, and the roads which ended in nothing. The slightest reversal would have resulted in a jolt to our prestige giving rise to all kinds of catastrophe; the problem was not only to conquer but to conquer again and again, perpetually; our forces would be drained off in the attempt.”
Emperor Hadrian AD 117-138
and a couple of final quotes by George Santayana (1863 - 1952)
“Only the dead have seen the end of the war. ”
“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
Think third party. Think outside the little staged wrestling match the MSM contructs to frame our political discussions.
You’ll never find me promoting all Republicans as some kind of viable solution. Tweedle dee tweedle dum, same crap, different flavor.
Good point but as with all such discussions it circles back around to the main point of WHAT CAN ANY OF US DO ABOUT IT?
The name on the door might change but the $hit that goes on behind that door smells as bad as ever.
So what are any of us prepared to DO about it?
As Presboardbox states above, we all know one VERY good place to start and it’s down at the tip of Manhattan.
Me? I’m just a stupid architect with a perverse facination with politics and economics but as much as possible in my personal life I’m trying to get off the hamster wheel. Buy nothing on credit. know all of the myriad fees and ways that the banks screw people and deny them the opportunity whenever possible. Try to tread more lightly on the earth. Ask questions, be aware of your assumptions, be aware of all the “US, vs THEM” distractions that try to prevent you from seeing the world as it really is.
Me? I don’t care. I like Obama but I greatly dislike his economics. I think his economics are wrong and he’s misguided on economics, that’s all.
Try n tax me! LOL.
What can we do about it? Be proactive. It’s well beyond trying to persuade everyone to rise up. That’s the indirect approach. The direct approach is to give yourself a tax cut and thumb your nose at the statists. I do.
I like Obama but I greatly dislike his economics.
Geez, Bill. And I thought I was the only one.
Each and every Obama policy and plan made and will make the economics FAR FAR WORSE.
I often wonder if Brock would have started running for president three or four years ago if he knew what a steaming pile he was going to inherit.
Cobalt:
I would hate to be a kid of yours. “Everything you will ever do is going to make the world a worse place”.
Some ppl are just hell-bent on being mean.
The Current Population Survey aggregate data is provided below to examine the United States long term employment creation by decade. Population growth is displayed for relevance to evaluate Employment Growth.
1950’s
Population Growth = 11,516,000
Employment Growth = 7,215,000 (62.65%)
1960’s
Population Growth = 19,449,000
Employment Growth = 13,862,000 (71.27%)
1970’s
Population Growth = 30,811,000
Employment Growth = 21,224,000 (68.88%)
1980’s
Population Growth = 20,865,000
Employment Growth = 17,685,000 (84.76%)
1990’s
Population Growth = 21,667,000
Employment Growth = 16,998,000 (78.45%)
2000’s (to Mar. 2009)
Population Growth = 26,254,000
Employment Growth = 5,137,000 (19.57%)
Dang - we got a lot of people we need to get rid of, and just over 5 months to do it.
It’s insane that our policymakers allow immense numbers of legal immigrants (and illegal, but that’s another story…) to enter the US, when the jobs simply aren’t there….and won’t be for a long, long time.
I think of the immigration policies in effect as something like a giant conveyor belt. In come the uneducated and poor. Piling up here, spreading over there. Private enterprise exploits their relatively cheap labor. The politicians exploit their anchor babies and voting bloc. Legal citizens watch their Treasury and national security diluted and depleted. The MSM tries to frame it as we “must” do everything possible to “help” them, or be labelled “racist”.
Shutting down the conveyor belt is never an option, it seems.
No, they never stop that conveyor belt. They never enact immigration policies that are good for the current US citizen. Our opinions don’t count.
Right on, cobaltblue!
One thing that I’ve noticed during this economic depression is that the landscape maintenance companies seem as busy as ever. Grass keeps growing, and needs to be cut. In states like CA, and NV, I’d bet more than 90% of the employees are illegal aliens, most often paid in cash (no taxes for the coffers) and the business owners are white people who make great money. Both groups prosper at the expense of the country as a whole. These people operate in broad daylight, not “in the shadows”, and never once have I heard, or seen, ICE do a thing about it. These are jobs for our young adults, or unemployed adults that need money badly right now.
It’s absolutely disgusting that this country won’t do the right thing for it’s legal citizens. We are in an unemployment crisis, yet the PTB and MSM will continue to celebrate “better than expected” news when the reality is that tens of millions of people are out of work and have no money or hope. If the politicians truly wanted to do what’s right and fair, they would go after these companies and their illegal hiring practices. Not only are they cheating legal citizens out of jobs, they’re not paying taxes.
I’ve noticed the landscaping too! And local governments are complaining about budget deficits and threaten to cut schools? Hello, what about the constant spraying and leaf-blowing? we don’t need row upon row of freakin annual flowers!
Growth rates:
1950’s 63%
1960’s 71%
1970’s 69%
1980’s 85%
1990’s 78%
2000’s 20%
So every job created is very important. So important that people create phony jobs and claim credit.
wmbz,
I really credit the BB’s for resurrecting the whole term: Jobless Recovery. ( Prior to our input, seems the MSM couldn’t even recall it’s application just 7 or 8 years ago? )
A jobless recovery should be good for banks, as it will enable them to rake in lucrative foreclosure fees from home owners who can no longer make payment.
Anyone want to buy into pennymac mortgage?started trading this morning for 20 bucks a share under pmt.Not sure what 20 bucks a share is buying you.What assets do they have.seems to be another case of pricing an ipo and getting more money to pay execs.these guys are good crooks.I thin they raised 320 million, must be nice.
The idea is good, and I would have even considered it, but the founders are delusional. They think prices will stabilize by the end of this year, that is in six months. I don’t think I’m ready to go with them.
YUCKKKKK,
PennyMac is founded by ex CountryWide and other crooks that profited on the way up and now hope to double-dip on the way down. I hope they fail and will watch the stock. Nothing would be more satisfying than making money shorting those pigs.
Yeah…except -
They made money on the way up and know how to make money on the way down.
Hmmm…Resolution Trust Corporation anyone?
Ya just can’t make this stuff up…sigh.
Leigh
This news must be great for banks, as it will offer increased opportunities for them to collect lucrative foreclosure fees. The financial engineering behind this foreclosure crisis must have been masterly indeed, as the banks raked in a killing during the housing boom, and now it sounds like they are raking in another one during the bust. Where does our consumer-friendly Fed chairman stand on the issue of perverse incentives for lending industry parasites to lure in unsuspecting borrowers with supersized loans they will be unable to ever repay, in order to suck the blood out of their lifeless victims during the foreclosure process?
Lenders not eager to help fix mortgages
Lucrative fees gained even in foreclosure
By Peter S. Goodman
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
2:00 a.m. July 30, 2009
Not motivated to modify: Data on delinquencies reinforce the notion that servicers are inclined to let problem loans float in purgatory – neither taking control of houses and selling them, nor modifying loans to give homeowners a break.
Delinquencies increase: From June 2008 to June 2009, the number of U.S. mortgages 90 days or more delinquent soared from 1.8 million to nearly 3 million, according to the realty research company First American Core Logic. During that period, the number of loans that resulted in the bank taking ownership of the home declined to 245,000 from 333,000.
…
Under the Obama administration’s foreclosure program, a servicer that modifies a loan for a homeowner collects $1,000 from the government, followed by $1,000 a year for each of the next three years.
A senior Treasury adviser, Seth Wheeler, said these payments amount to “meaningful incentives to servicers to help overcome the challenges and competing demands they face in considering and completing loan modifications.” He added mortgage companies “are contractually obligated to the terms of this program, which require them to offer modifications to qualified borrowers.”
But experts said the administration’s incentives are often outweighed by the benefits of collecting fees from delinquency, and then more fees through the sale of homes in foreclosure.
“If they do a loan modification, they get a few shekels from the government,” said David Dickey, who formerly headed a national mortgage sales team at Countrywide and Bank of America, leaving in March to start a mortgage advisory firm, National Home Loan Advocates. By contrast, he said, the road to foreclosure, especially if it’s prolonged, is lined with fees. “There’s all sorts of things behind the scenes,” he said.
When borrowers begin to fall behind, mortgage companies typically collect late fees reaching 6 percent of the monthly payments.
“For many subprime servicers, late fees alone constitute a significant fraction of their total income and profit,” said Diane E. Thompson, a lawyer for the National Consumer Law Center, in testimony to the Senate Banking Committee this month. “Servicers thus have an incentive to push homeowners into late payments and keep them there: If the loan pays late, the servicer is more likely to profit.”
She cited Ocwen Financial, which reported that nearly 12 percent of its income in 2007 came from fees charged to borrowers.
As a home slides toward foreclosure, mortgage companies pay for many services required to take control of the property and resell it. They typically funnel orders for title searches, insurance policies, appraisals and legal filings to companies they own or share revenue with.
Ocwen established its title company, Premium Title Services, in part to keep more of the revenue flowing from foreclosures, said Golant, who was involved in starting the venture.
“It was hugely profitable,” she said. “Premium Title would charge for the title when it got transferred to Ocwen, then charge again when it got transferred to the new buyer, and then sell title insurance. It was easy money.”
…
What do people expect when it’s the Bank lobbyist that are designing all the bail-out programs ?
Let’s see…
I loan J6P $250,000 (interest only) to buy a house, and over a couple of years collect $35,000 in interest and fees. Then J6P stops paying altogether. He still owes me $250K although I’ve collected $35K so far. Kicking him out and going through the foreclosure process will cost a few thousand, and I might be able to net $140K if I put it on the market.
So my profit is…
Bill
I loan J6P $250,000 (interest only) to buy a house,
Collect $35,000 in interest and fees.
Then J6P stops paying altogether. He still owes me $250K
I’ve collected $35K.
Now you can sell the loan to the gov for 240k.
You can kick him out net 140 and in a recourse state go after his wages and other assetts
You can modify the loan so that he still owes 250k but he will pay it off over the course of 50-100 years.
Kicking him out and going through the foreclosure process will cost a few thousand, and I might be able to net $140K if I put it on the market.
How do recourse laws play into this? My understanding is that the bank can come after you for the losses unless the debt is discharged in bankruptcy. Add in all those penalties and fees and I’m sure this gets expensive for the borrower and profitable for the bank.
I’m not an accountant, but I imagine that the banks know exactly how many non-performing loans they can write down for a given quarter and still pay out bonuses to their executives. If cashflow is a problem, then they sell some of the non-performing loans to distressed debt investors to raise money.
I just two days ago spoke to a foreclosure attorney in FL who has been spending boo-coo time in the courtroom lately. He says the way the judges are handling recourse (FL is a recourse state) is that he is asking the mortgage holder to come back with proof that the property was really worth what the loan value was back in bubble day. This will prove to be impossible because of the rampant appraisal fraud that occured. No recourse here, apparently.
I’m skeptical on this one like you Bill.
Sure they can book a profit by tacking on extra fees today, but those fees will be tomorrow’s loss when those fees are never actually paid. Yet more accounting trickery.
Bill, you are mixing up the servicer with the lender.
Yes, the MBS trust takes it in the shorts, but the servicer comes out smelling like roses.
In your example, they probably clear $40K. They get to keep the previous fees (but the interest portion of the $35K int+fees goes to the bondholders); they also get to keep a chunk of fees out of what gets collected in the foreclosure process.
Note that they do NOT bear the losses associated with the loan. But they do still get to pocket the fees.
The people who really made out are the ones who HELOC’d the house, bought a piece of raw land free and clear, then defaulted on the HELOC and house. They got a free parcel of land. Banks are not going after people even though loans are full recourse.
Professor Bear,
Please notice how many of these scumbags quoted are “formerly at Countrywide”, Ocwen or whatever? They just keep morphing and skimming their way through life. Great…
The situation brings to mind criminals who learned the tricks of their trade while serving jail time.
Yes. Andy Dufresne had to go to prison to learn how to be a crook. Thank god he was able to crawl through that pipe and become an honest man, once again. I still don’t know why he pi$$ed away money on that crappy boat.
Outstanding Movie…I never get tired of it…
I still don’t know why he pi$$ed away money on that crappy boat.
LOL, because everyone needs a project to keep them from boredom… Andy’s was an old boat that needed restoration (or skuttling).
I still don’t know why he pi$$ed away money on that crappy boat.
The 3F rule didn’t exist at the time.
You know what? Kind of a long story, but in short, I came to visit, know, and subsequently adore a small Mexican town* as a direct result of that story/movie.
Sincerest thanks, Stephen King!
*Which I will not mention. Why spread the word? Notice how every time Forbes or Money selects ‘the best city to live in’ it doesn’t STAY the best city to live in for very long? Well, that’s changed a bit now that FB’s can’t move as easily…but still.
You can look it up, if you care.
Oh, and I agree with NYCity about that boat. That’s nothing but a thwarted bonfire, there.
It’s just like with credit cards. Those who pay them on time make the bank a little money. They make the big money off the people who are always missing payments etc.
…the issue of perverse incentives for lending industry parasites to lure in unsuspecting borrowers with supersized loans they will be unable to ever repay, in order to suck the blood out of their lifeless victims during the foreclosure process?
Prof’s on a roll! Ouch!
Banksters must be salivating and gleefully rubbing their hands together in anticipation of collecting more lucrative foreclosure fees from the recently unemployed who can no longer keep up with their house payments. And in many cases lenders have their backs covered against losses on the collateral, thanks to GSE/FHA guarantees. It is all good in the mortgage lending sector!
Las Vegas, Fort Myers, Florida Lead U.S. Cities in Foreclosures
By Brian Louis
July 30 (Bloomberg) — Las Vegas and Cape Coral-Fort Myers, Florida led U.S. metropolitan areas in foreclosures in the first half of the year as unemployment and falling home prices forced home-loan defaults, RealtyTrac Inc. said.
The Las Vegas area had the highest rate of foreclosure filings, with 7.5 percent of households receiving a default or auction notice or being seized by a lender. That rate was six times the national average. The Cape Coral-Fort Myers region, on Florida’s Gulf Coast, was second, with a rate of 7.2 percent.
“Foreclosure activity continued its upward trajectory nationwide and in the majority of metro areas in the first half of the year,” James Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac, said in a statement. “While some of the markets that had the highest saturation of foreclosures over the past few years have seen declining rates, new markets like Provo, Utah, and Boise, Idaho, have seen large increases.”
Home prices in 20 major U.S. metropolitan areas dropped 17.1 percent in May from a year earlier, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index. Nationwide, home prices have fallen 21 percent since peaking in July of 2006, according to the National Association of Realtors in Chicago. The U.S. unemployment rate rose to 9.5 percent in June, the highest in almost 26 years, the U.S. Labor Department said on July 2.
That brought the total number of lost jobs to about 6.5 million since the recession started in December 2007, the Labor Department said.
…
For some reason I’m starting to feel like I live in Italy…
For some reason I’m starting to feel like I live in Italy…
Why? Because he have a Fiat currency?
haha. I crack me up.
LOL,
Fix It Again Timmy?
Every time I get on the METRO in Washington I feel like I live in Japan,
Except without the ritual courtesy and cool electronic stuff.
The METRO isn’t for the faint of heart, that’s for sure. Watch where you stand on the escalators — better hug the right side so that the in-a-hurry types can blow past you. And they don’t even say “Excuse me.”
Same for the NYC subway for those who don’t know the stand on the right custom.
At least London is civilized enough to have signs on the escalators that say “stand right, walk left”
We absolutely DO say “excuse me,” but with such arrogant distain and impatience in our voices that anyone with even the tiniest bit of emotional intelligence would remember it as “out of my way, f—-er.”
Yes, I’m acclimated.
Except without the ritual courtesy and cool electronic stuff.
And the adorable Japanese school-girls.
…Ah, Japanese school-girls….
(Just kidding. Mostly.)
DETROIT - Faced with the worst residential real estate market in decades, the developers of the Westin Book Cadillac Hotel are cutting prices on unsold condos. Advance purchase orders had been taken on almost all of the 64 condominium units on the hotel’s upper floors, including the priciest at $1 million or more. But the collapse of the economy prevented many buyers from closing on their units. Only about 12 deals closed. The developer said Wednesday he is putting all the unsold units back on the market and cutting the prices 10% to 35%. — Buy now or pay even less later. They’re not building any more condos in Detroit!
Las Vegas, Fort Myers, Florida Lead U.S. Cities in Foreclosures:
July 30 (Bloomberg) — Las Vegas and Cape Coral-Fort Myers, Florida led U.S. metropolitan areas in foreclosures in the first half of the year as unemployment and falling home prices forced home-loan defaults, RealtyTrac Inc. said.
The Las Vegas area had the highest rate of foreclosure filings, with 7.5 percent of households receiving a default or auction notice or being seized by a lender. That rate was six times the national average. The Cape Coral-Fort Myers region, on Florida’s Gulf Coast, was second, with a rate of 7.2 percent.
“Foreclosure activity continued its upward trajectory nationwide and in the majority of metro areas in the first half of the year,” James Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac, said in a statement. “While some of the markets that had the highest saturation of foreclosures over the past few years have seen declining rates, new markets like Provo, Utah, and Boise, Idaho, have seen large increases.”
Home prices in 20 major U.S. metropolitan areas dropped 17.1 percent in May from a year earlier, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller index. Nationwide, home prices have fallen 21 percent since peaking in July of 2006, according to the National Association of Realtors in Chicago. The U.S. unemployment rate rose to 9.5 percent in June, the highest in almost 26 years, the U.S. Labor Department said on July 2.
That brought the total number of lost jobs to about 6.5 million since the recession started in December 2007, the Labor Department said.
1.5 Million Properties
U.S. foreclosure filings rose to a record in the first half as job losses and slumping home prices fueled an increase in defaults, RealtyTrac said in a July 16 report. More than 1.5 million properties received a default or auction notice or were seized by banks in the six months through June. That’s a 15 percent increase from the year earlier.
Right, Headline News reported the article by saying; “Las Vegas is the Gambling Capitol AND… the Foreclosure Capitol!”
( Kind of redundant don’t you think? )
They went on to mention that 29! of the Top 30 Cities for FC’s are in (4) states! CA, NV, AZ and FL. ( But it’s -everyone’s- problem! )
July 30, 2009
Downtown Fort Myers condo has 32 stories, and one lonely tale
Condo can get spooky for tower’s only family
Victor Vangelakos lives in a luxury condominium tower on the Caloosahatchee River. He never has to worry about the neighbors making too much noise.
There are no neighbors.
Vangelakos, 45, his wife Cathy and their three children are the only residents in the 32-story Oasis I condo on the east edge of downtown Fort Myers.
The 45-year-old Weehawken, N.J., firefighter bought the condo from Miami-based The Related Group for $430,000 and closed on it in November. He planned to make it a vacation getaway and eventually his full-time residence when he retires in four years.
But prices have fallen hard since the real estate bubble burst in early 2006. Only a handful of those who put down deposits on the tower’s units actually closed on the deal. Those who did have swapped their Oasis I units for condos in Oasis II next door.
Vangelakos didn’t, because he was unable to convince his lender to agree to the swap, said Betsy Lu McCoy, vice president and associate corporate counsel for Related.
That leaves the Vangelakos family splitting their time between New Jersey and a creepy, surreal life in Oasis I.
They’re the only ones using a well-appointed clubhouse, but they can’t watch the big plasma TV.
“We haven’t found the remote controls,” Victor said.
Pause for a moment anywhere in the building during the day and the silence is deafening.
At night, Vangelakos said, they often hear people on the grounds or even inside the building itself. It’s not hard to break in one of the many entrances.
Once, late at night, “Somebody banged on our door,” Vanelakos said.
It wouldn’t have been hard to find the person in the otherwise darkened building.
“At night,” he said, “you can see our TV from the street.”
Especially popular for intruders is the swimming pool, Vangelakos said. They heard people there one night “and the next day all our chairs were in the pool.”
His relationship with Related is testy at best. Once, he said, when management turned off his water to fix a leak in a pipe, “we came back 10 days later and the water was off but our TV was on.”
Now, after months of exchanging letters with Related about building maintenance and other issues, Vangelakos said he just wants out.
He hasn’t filed a lawsuit but his attorney, Fort Lauderdale-based John Ewing, said Related hasn’t delivered the marina, pro shop and fancy restaurants that were promised.
“They have the ability to buy him out,” Ewing said. “They can resolve this in a fair way.”
McCoy said it’s not that simple.
“His concerns have not fallen on deaf ears,” she said, but it isn’t Related’s fault he hasn’t been able to persuade his lender, JP Morgan Chase Bank, to transfer the mortgage to a unit in Oasis II.
“What he paid went to our lender, it didn’t come to us,” McCoy noted, so Related would have to pay off the mortgage before it got the unit back.
Besides, she said, the situation is the result of market forces beyond anyone’s control.
“We did not foresee, nor did anyone else foresee, the collapse of the real estate business and the concurrent collapse of the lending industry,” McCoy said. “They’re caught and we’re caught.”
That leaves the Vangelakos family splitting their time between New Jersey and a creepy, surreal life in Oasis I.
Stories like this are why I read this Blog.
Fascinating.
My sympathies to the Vangelakos family (assuming they’ve done no wrong), but, fascinating.
No sympathies here - there is usually more to the story…
The wife of a firefighter who’s the only resident of a luxury Fort Myers skyscraper has problems of her own back in Weehawken, N.J.
Cathleen Vangelakos is facing a possible 10-year sentence for official misconduct and embezzlement if convicted on charges that as municipal court violations clerk she stole about $500 in money people paid for tickets.
Advertisement
The charges came to light when people contacted The News-Press after reading the story about the couple being the sole residents of a tower on news-press.com. The story was picked up by The Drudge Report and other sites.
Her husband, Victor Vangelakos, 45, paid $430,000 for a unit in the 32-story Oasis Tower I condo on the east edge of downtown Fort Myers, planning to make it a vacation getaway and eventually the family’s full-time residence when he retires in four years.
But most of the buyers in the tower never closed on their units and the few who did swapped for Oasis Tower II next door, which has a number of people living there. Now Victor Vangelakos wants the developer, The Related Group, to give him his money back.
Cathleen Vangelakos was arrested in June 2008 after an operation by the special investigations unit of the Hudson County Prosecutor’s Office.
She was indicted on the charges in January, Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio said today —no trial date has been set.
The couple’s Florida attorney, Fort Lauderdale-based John Ewing, said today he hadn’t known about the charges against Cathleen Vangelakos but that the two cases are completely different.
“With regard to the issues I’m dealing with for The Related Group, the unique situation with Mr. Vangelakos and the mortgage, I can’t imagine how they’d be linked,” Ewing said.
Ewing noted that the couple didn’t pay cash for the condo — they have a $336,720 mortgage with JP Morgan Chase Bank.
Also, the attorney noted, Victor Vangelakos’ name was the only one on the purchase agreement with Related.
Cathleen Vangelakos is facing a possible 10-year sentence for official misconduct and embezzlement if convicted on charges that as municipal court violations clerk she stole about $500 in money people paid for tickets.
——————-
$500?
Is that a typo?
Ten years for five hundred dollars?
OK. Stealing is wrong. But come on!
Ya just can’t make this stuff up…sigh.
Leigh
The wife of a firefighter who’s the only resident of a luxury Fort Myers skyscraper has problems of her own back in Weehawken, N.J.
Cathleen Vangelakos is facing a possible 10-year sentence for official misconduct and embezzlement if convicted on charges that as municipal court violations clerk she stole about $500 in money people paid for tickets.
Advertisement
The charges came to light when people contacted The News-Press after reading the story about the couple being the sole residents of a tower on news-press.com. The story was picked up by The Drudge Report and other sites.
Her husband, Victor Vangelakos, 45, paid $430,000 for a unit in the 32-story Oasis Tower I condo on the east edge of downtown Fort Myers, planning to make it a vacation getaway and eventually the family’s full-time residence when he retires in four years.
But most of the buyers in the tower never closed on their units and the few who did swapped for Oasis Tower II next door, which has a number of people living there. Now Victor Vangelakos wants the developer, The Related Group, to give him his money back.
Cathleen Vangelakos was arrested in June 2008 after an operation by the special investigations unit of the Hudson County Prosecutor’s Office.
She was indicted on the charges in January, Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio said today —no trial date has been set.
The couple’s Florida attorney, Fort Lauderdale-based John Ewing, said today he hadn’t known about the charges against Cathleen Vangelakos but that the two cases are completely different.
“With regard to the issues I’m dealing with for The Related Group, the unique situation with Mr. Vangelakos and the mortgage, I can’t imagine how they’d be linked,” Ewing said.
Ewing noted that the couple didn’t pay cash for the condo — they have a $336,720 mortgage with JP Morgan Chase Bank.
Also, the attorney noted, Victor Vangelakos’ name was the only one on the purchase agreement with Related.
Retiring at 49, WTF?
I thought I had heard it all when I bumped into a San Diego firefighter on a plane to Hawaii (they were vacationing at xmas, I live here and was visiting family on the mainland) who was complaining about having to postpone his retirement to 55 because he was helping a son through law school.
Insane.
“We did not foresee, nor did anyone else foresee, the collapse of the real estate business and the concurrent collapse of the lending industry”
Classic line. Amusing article about the lone occupied condo and its residents.
Someone tell me what business a FIREMAN has buying a $430,000 (that’s four hundred and thirty thousand US dollars,) condo?
As a freaking vacation home?!!!
Gee. Wonder why our country is bankrupt…..
What’s this? “Compassionate” lib’s, blowing off other compassionate lib’s. Can’t be, they just don’t do that, where’s the love?
Congresswoman’s abandoned house angers neighbors.
Laura Richardson’s former home in Sacramento’s upscale Curtis Park neighborhood is in disrepair. Residents say they have appealed to her and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi without success.
Reporting from Sacramento — John Bailey thought it was great when his neighbor was elected to the House of Representatives in 2007.
“Not everyone lives next door to a congresswoman,” he said.
But two years later, he doesn’t feel so lucky. The congresswoman’s house is abandoned and in disrepair, “a blight on the neighborhood,” Bailey said.
He thinks the way that Rep. Laura Richardson (D-Long Beach) has treated her Sacramento home tells far more about her than her voting record.
“I wouldn’t want anyone that irresponsible to represent me,” said Bailey, like Richardson a liberal Democrat. “What I don’t get is how she has the time to visit with Fidel Castro but doesn’t have time for her own house. If you can’t manage your own household, you probably shouldn’t get involved in international affairs.”
He’s not alone. Neighbors have complained to the city, written letters and e-mails to Richardson and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi , but the three-bedroom house remains an eyesore. Neighbors just wish she would sell it or let it go into foreclosure, anything to get it into the hands of someone who would care.
“She shows total disregard for everyone in the neighborhood,” said Sean Padovan, a retired police sergeant. “She ought to be embarrassed and ashamed.”
Richardson did not return phone calls for this story.
The problems with the house began shortly after Richardson was elected to the Assembly in 2006 from Long Beach and bought the two-story house in the leafy Curtis Park neighborhood.
It wasn’t long before Padovan, 62, angry that the lawn wasn’t being mowed, knocked on Richardson’s door, told her he was a neighbor and asked if she minded if he cut the grass. He hauled out his hand mower, and when Richardson still seemed to have no interest in taking care of her yard, he stuck a gardener’s card in her door with a note saying that she should call him if she had questions.
He never heard from Richardson, not a thank-you or a wave as she walked past.
If you can’t manage your own household, you probably shouldn’t get involved in international affairs.
Some would say this applies to the U.S. gov’t generally …
But it is so much easier to meddle in other people’s lives than to properly run your own. Just think how many people want order in the world when their own lives are a disgusting mess. This is human nature. “Do as I say, not as I do.”
One needs to understand the contempt that the average pol has for the average citizen. Apologists will try to imply that the pols from one party or another are different - but the contempt is universal.
edgewaterjohn,
How’s the move going btw? Anyway, Michelle M has been following her story for years. Richardson is actually a Serial Defaulter as she hasn’t made payments on her home in LB for years either.
To further… show her contempt, she cites it as a “credential” in understanding what the avg. J6P is going through. I don’t think it’s a matter of party affiliation ( Richardson is just a sick, sick person )
One needs to understand the contempt that the average pol has for the average citizen.
Good lord, man, turn on your spell check. You misspelled “consumer” as citizen. That’s not even close.
You noticed that too?
You have such a special talent for making us laugh and cry at the same time.
There’s an interesting editorial in the WaPo this morning that touches on this contempt level.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/29/AR2009072902627.html
Protecting our public servants is important, to be sure. But we have gotten so cranked up about security in the United States that senior officials travel in cocoons, as if they are under constant threat. Every Cabinet secretary seems to have a security detail; so do governors and mayors and prominent legislators.
False sense of security I say -
The men and women who serve in those security details are our brothers and sisters.
One may be wise to remember this small detail - senior officials that is - and thier cabinet folk.
Devil’s in the smallest detail.
Leigh
“She shows total disregard for everyone in the neighborhood,” said Sean Padovan, a retired police sergeant. “She ought to be embarrassed and ashamed.”
Maybe she forgot how many houses she owns.
lavi d,
Might be right. It goes back quite a’ ways but I ‘believe’ she also equity-skimmed her mother’s house to fund her campaign and now mom’s house is in FC too? It’s a very tedious story w/ many twists and turns.
I happen to think it’s coming more from a sense of entitlement than anything. She’s doing ALL these wonderful things for her constituents so… Again, regardless of her Party, this woman is a scumbag of the first order. She embodies everything BB’s hate about FB’s and The Bubble itself.
She embodies everything BB’s hate about FB’s and The Bubble itself.
AMEN
You guys might not recall the details, but this is only half the story.
The house was foreclosed on a year or two ago, and some buy bought it at the courthouse steps. He moved in and proceeded to begin fixing it up. News hit that the Congresswoman had neglected to pay her mortgage on this house and one or two others and she called up the bank telling them she wanted to make whole on the loan and keep the house.
I don’t know how they worked it out, but the bank somehow took the house back from the guy who had bought it, and he proceeded to file a lawsuit against the lender for taking what he lawfully purchased at the auction. They ended up settling quietly, the Congresswoman got her house back, and everyone went on their merry way.
This is still, to me, a pretty disturbing tale of how someone with power, even a little power, can have their way with things.
It a tale as old as history itself.
I haven’t looked lately, but believe there’s some CA law where the foreclosed owner may in fact have a right to re-purchase “his” house even after a foreclosure auction. I’m sure there’s a time limit and he has to show up with some money.
It’s called a “right of redemption” and there is a Byzantine set of qualifications to use it. See CA civil code sec. 2934 et seq. for details - I got a headache trying to read it.
So this wasn’t a special “bank favor” to doofus congresscritter.
Make that CA civil code sec. 2924 et seq.
If so - wow, that’s just not right. It’s not like the bank moves in and takes your house the day you stop making payments - it takes months (and now years in some cases) to go through foreclosure. You have to be some kind of scum to pull a move like that; and I can’t believe such a law is allowed.
I can’t believe such a law is allowed.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
OK well - I guess that statement was rhetorical. I certainly *can* believe it - especially in CA.
Akron-area medical lab run by Pioneer Physicians Network to offer low-cost medical lab tests to uninsured patients of other physicians. ”We’ve kept our pricing down because we have self-pay patients and uninsured patients,” practice manager Kathy Kostelnick said. ”It’s one fee schedule for everybody.” The Summit County Medical Society had been running a campaign to get all local labs to accept payments from uninsured patients that are similar to the amount Medicare pays. Medicare, for example, pays $18.57 in Ohio for a cholesterol test that area labs charge $96 to $147.75 to provide, according to a recent survey of area labs. Pioneer charges $24 for the test, according to its Web site. To quality for the new program with Pioneer, patients must pay with cash, check or credit card for the tests at the time of the service. A flat $5 draw fee also is charged per appointment, regardless of how many tests are run.
You mean the free market can rein in spiraling medical costs on its own? Don’t tell this to the gov’t-run health care zealots.
Enough with the “free” crap. A monopolistic, barrier-laden, crony cartel run system is not what most would consider to be free. Anyone who perpetuates this BS and isn’t taking a fee from the industry is selling themselves short.
Exactly. “Free market” is code for “free to #@!% you up the *^%, market.”
A lot more free than anything government will do.
How’s that Internet thingy working for you?
Oh, I forgot, none of us would be here without the inventive genius of a certain well-known public servant.
(It’s good this isn’t a video chat. I’m terrible at keeping a straight face.)
I’m afraid DARPA isn’t a person.
Also, you might look into NASA technology transfer. Just type in “nasa tech transfer” in Google.
More free stuff.
A monopolistic, barrier-laden, crony cartel run system is not what most would consider to be free.
You’re using the existence of economic inefficiencies to argue for more economic inefficiencies. That makes a he!! of a lot of sense.
Nope, patient renter is just pointing out that the term “free market” is a lie and a scam.
It is when you have government — and government-chartered cartels– screwing around with it all the time.
Please don’t tell me you trust the corporations to do the right thing. Or for that matter, most businesses.
The “free market” hasn’t done squat. This is only an exception and not the rule.
Don’t hold your breath waiting for this to happen in your neighborhood.
The “free market” hasn’t done squat. This is only an exception and not the rule. Don’t hold your breath waiting for this to happen in your neighborhood.
I hate to burst your bubble, but this has been happening all over the nation for years now. Anyone interested who is willing to pay can order lab tests ON THEMSELVES over the internet, without a separate doctor’s order. I don’t know how many companies are doing this now, but here is just one: privatemdlabs DOT com:
An example test (which is a group of tests physicians very often run on all their adult male patients as a basic assessment tool):
Male Deluxe Checkup $98.49
Description: The Male Deluxe Checkup is our basic unisex testing package with the addition of the Prostate Cancer Profile for men. The Male Deluxe Checkup contains the following tests:
- Complete Blood Count w/ Differential
- Lipid Profile (many components)
- Liver Function Test (many components)
- Kidney Function Test (many components)
- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (many components)
- Serum Iron
- Complete Urinalysis Profile
- Serum Electrolytes
- Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA), Free:Total Ratio
====
Specimens are collected at LabCorp offices all over the USA, often the same places local doctors have their patients get tested at. “Patient” (actually customers) can order tests online paid with the usual methods, get an order form by email, take it to the local LabCorp office. Using Ben Jones as an example, he could have such tests done at an office in Flagstaff.
Just for fun, print out this list of tests, and call your local hospital laboratory & ask how much they would charge you, as a cash (”self-pay”) customer. Last time I tried this (2002) I got a run-around: no answer from one hospital, the other said the price started at $700 (for this same series) but they refused to commit to an exact value, even though I told them exactly what the tests were. They said I would have to come in, sign their form that agreed I would pay whatever they charged for the tests. As if.
You can also get medical testing for free. I went to a health fair this past June. Got my fasting glucose and cholesterol checked, no charge.
No free health fairs in my neighborhood.
Tresho, that’s good to hear about the Internet testing, but I wonder how many other people know of this? Because I’m surprised I haven’t heard of this sooner.
“…You mean the free market can rein in spiraling medical costs on its own? Don’t tell this to the gov’t-run health care zealots.”
Um, they’re charging “what Medicare charges?”
That $24 is probably exactly the amount the labs that “charge” over a $100 have as their negotiated rate with all the private insurance companies. This is one business allowing the market power of the insurance companies to apply even to the people who don’t have the power of big volume behind them. There is no reason to believe that a for-profit business will act this way forever.
There is no reason to believe that a for-profit business will act this way forever. Elsewhere I’ve posted a note about online laboratories that have been doing this for years now. The New York Times had an article prior to 2002 about this type of discount lab service. I’ve used one & was quite satisfied.
NYT 2002 article I mentioned above
It aint just houses.
Nevada sales plunge 21.1 percent in MayJuly 30, 2009 7:49 AM ET advertisement
All Associated Press news By SANDRA CHEREB
CARSON CITY, Nev. (AP) - Nevada merchants sold $3.19 billion in goods during May, representing a 21.1 percent drop compared with the same month a year ago, the Nevada Department of Taxation reported Wednesday.
Sales were down in 16 of Nevada’s 17 counties, including the state’s population centers of Clark County, which encompasses Las Vegas, and Washoe County, which includes Reno. Mineral County was the exception, the report said.
For the fiscal year that ended June 30, sales are down 11.9 percent compared with the prior year.
Gross revenue collections from sales and use taxes totaled $240.3 million, a 19.26 percent decrease from May of last year.
“This months sales tax figures are another sobering reminder that the economy is in dire shape,” Gov. Jim Gibbons said. “I will continue to work on bringing more jobs and tourists to Nevada. We need to shore up the economy in order to restore consumer confidence and encourage consumer spending.”
“Mineral County was the exception”
God LOVES Hawthorne, NV! ( Military-based economy on the back road to LV ) I think they moved a flooring supplier in ther to diversify their economy ’somewhat’. Nicest people you’ll ever meet there!
God LOVES Hawthorne, NV!
Hawthorne is well defended.
So, what does “Emergency Run” do?
So, what does “Emergency Run” do?
I imagine it’s the equivalent of “wiring open the throttle”
I sure would like to see those merchant numbers for California…
Out of curiosity, I visited the “qualifying” cars for the cash for clunkers programs yesterday. I think that they have “tweaked” the mileage on a lot of car to make them compliant. I checked my older car that I use as a second driver, and it qualifies… I regularly get almost 30Mpg on the highway in this car, and about 24 combined, so I was quite surprised that they had it at an exact 18. Coincidence?
I also saw in the local fishwrap an article about an electrician’s family that was interviewed due to the new chase policy of requiring a monthly payment equivalent to 5% of the oustanding balance. The wife was a housekeeper, and they were complaining because their payment went from 380 to 780 a month. That would be 18K in CC bills. Of course the “owed” their house, probably had car payments, and a miriad of other expenses.
This is why I think that the recast in Alt-A really will matter in MA. A lot of people are hanging on by the thread of their pants, and will not make it. I think that Alt-A has the nucular bombs. It is the home of the neg-am pick-a-payment no doc no income verification pay 3% but real interest is 9% loan that is about to recast. Granted some Alt-a’s could actually afford their loans, and when the reset (not recast) comes, they will be better off, but those are the ones that read this blog. The rest? How-much-a-month dudes…
I was talking to a friend yesterday about the program and he is in a real moral quandary. He has a meticulously cared for older vehicle that would sell for less than the clunkers program would pay, but it is a perfectly running perfectly capable vehicle and he can’t in good conscience send it off to be destroyed after having taken such good care for it. Financially, he’s better off by letting it go to waste, but by any other measure the vehicle should be kept alive.
How is this good policy?
How is he better off by letting it go? It’s cash value may be less than $4500 on the market, but since he has particular knowledge of the care it has received and knows that its “going concern” value is quite a bit higher than the blue book one, he should keep it.
Unless he really wants a new car.
Once the cash for clunkers program ends, car prices should drop by around $4500. He might as well keep driving the old car as long as it really isn’t a clunker.
I was talking to a friend yesterday about the program and he is in a real moral quandary. He has a meticulously cared for older vehicle that would sell for less than the clunkers program would pay, but it is a perfectly running perfectly capable vehicle and he can’t in good conscience send it off to be destroyed after having taken such good care for it. Financially, he’s better off by letting it go to waste, but by any other measure the vehicle should be kept alive.
How is this good policy?
Your friend is an evil selfish red-eyed neo-con polluter, who cares nothing about the environment nor the starving American auto workers. Doesn’t he know the future is at stake here? The government knows what’s best - trust them.
He probably bounces dead cats in his spare time.
Scum.
RIP, Globalism. Wasn’t much benefit to anyone but maybe some emerging third world countries and transnational corporations. It’s gonna get ugly, but this system is going down. Needs to be purged, anyway.
Good luck with that.
Who do you propose to take over the debt currently held by other countries; debt that’s paid for be exports to the U.S.?
And given the rapidly-expanding environmental, tax, and regulatory burdens on U.S. corporations - do you really think they’ll be able to close the production cost gap with developing countries? That’s what it would take to bring jobs back from overseas.
Sorry but I just don’t see it happening. We’re seeing a huge drop in our trade deficit right now, but that’s driven by the downturn itself. As consumer demand picks up (it will - eventually and slowly - but it will), the trade deficit will go right back where it was IMO.
We keep coming back to the same premise that we can’t change the
Global system that was created . Americans can do any thing they want if they get the right people in office . Americans can demand that penalty taxes be added to imports for instance ,any thing we want to level out the playing field . I’m just saying that if Politicians
just keep enacting laws that favor Big Business going outside our borders ,than that is what will happen and continue to happen .
When will Big Business realize that slave labor doesn’t produce ability to buy their stupid products . Trying to gain excessive profits on the spread between different Countries was the brain child of the unregulated greed machine .
If the US enacts protectionist policies, so will everyone else. That would be very dangerous for energy dependant nations like the US. Until that’s sorted out, the politicians’ hands are tied.
OPEC already is a protectionist organization. Not sure what more they could do.
Historically, it’s the major exporting nations (like the US in the 30s) that get hurt the most by protectionist policies. Of course, China could refuse to buy any more treasuries, but that would just dig their own whole even deeper.
“Sorry but I just don’t see it happening. We’re seeing a huge drop in our trade deficit right now, but that’s driven by the downturn itself. As consumer demand picks up (it will - eventually and slowly - but it will), the trade deficit will go right back where it was IMO”
Blind faith and generalizations in a US Consumer DEMAND during and AFTER a major recession like this one may prove to be fickle. Many a businessman and company have lost their butt in attempting to anticpate or manipulate consumers wants and need in much lesser US recessions. Ask anyone envolved the sales of electronics toys like the failed Sony Betamax, the dot com stocks on through to the history of Dodge/Chrysler Products and others. As recently as 6-7 years ago, few people worried about the property taxes on their soon to be new Dream Homes. Now, everybody asks “What are the Taxes?”
People HATE to getting burned time and again by the new and Improved useless junk when money matters. Just look at the housing crash to witness family, friends and neighbors getting savaged by “consumer demand” and people now trying to shop wisely and find a reasonable priced house after the great price run-ups. Houses being “Snapped Up”… Hell, smart shoppers are going out of there way to avoid the new over-priced POS or NOT buying other peoples problems at all. Even with their incentives, houses and new cars, have been rotting on the docks and lots and it’s for good reasons. Among them, one heck of a lot of somebodies misjudged US consumer demands and more specifically..their needs.
There’s “starter homes” and McMansion galore out there and it just ISN’T the initial cost stopping the GF and FB from buying. It’s the Whole Ball of Wax from things like job security to cost of furnishings to property taxe and so on. Billions have been spent attempting to re-invent new housing and auto markets and reshape the tried and tested pyschology of the old stand-by US Consumer Demand. Maybe this massive recession will teach people to demand something of VALUE for their hard earned Money if nothing else!
From MS Windows to the WalMart China disposable trash, even the stupid and wasteful, eventually learn to stick with what works and try to shun the crap out of forced live and learn family budget economics. Maybe we should invest in US landfills as I see tons of this junk headed for flea markets or the dumps.
This recession, is at the least a major triple whammy with no economic engine in sight. Housing, Debt and Unemployment plus MANY other intervening economic factors and problems. Sure, eventually people will be forced to buy and replace essentials but I don’t foresee a return to the carefree asinine credit card shopping sprees of the last 20 yrears.
Those days are as much apart of US Consumer History as Ye Ole Boutique Candle Shops, Windows ME and the big family old habits will chrysler road BOATS. Those great McMansions on the Hill built for Egos and to be overlooking the Little People will also suffer as well. The old consumer demand will be greatly curtailed during and after this recession. Old spending attitudes and habits WILL change due to necessity before this one is over !
Sorry for the long and fast normal rant but I must fly — for my old fashioned regular guy styled discount haircut.
Exactly mikey. The PTB and J6P both mistook the map for the terrain.
Right now, J6P is the only one who HAS to face reality while the PTB are still mistaking the map for the terrain.
I always thought that ‘globalism’ was a form of foreign aid.
LOL!
Hey Dennis, what’s the weather like up there? We’re m-e-l-t-i-n-g… I have two more drills in K’ Falls and I’ll touch base as we move into Sept. when I do my 2 weeks at Gowen.
I know the guys are eager to get back to OR and I hope the civilian contractors are on schedule?
It’s really strange - it’s cooler here than Portland or Seattle. Yesterday it got up to about 93 here but was 103 in Seattle - an ALL TIME record high temperature. Normally Seattle is 15 degrees cooler in July compared with Boise.
I haven’t had the heart to post comparison temps for Olympia and Salt Lake City. Or maybe I don’t want some chick shootin’ at me.
Or maybe I don’t want some chick shootin’ at me.
And your fear is right on target.
*pant, pant *
Repent yea sinner! It’s not too late to move back to The Promised Land! God has sent you a warning - a plague of heat, frogs, and geoducks!
There is only one country that is gaining in all this and it is China. All other countries are losers in the age of Globalism.
Beat em or join em.
Would you want to drink their water or eat their fish?
…breathe their air?
Doing it, as we speak.
Sometimes the only fish at Safeways is “Produce of China”. I walk.
Me too. Matter of fact, I’ve pretty much stopped doing business with corporate chain stores.
I run.
The other day I felt like eating something savory and oily on crackers and pawed in my cupboards until I found a tin of baby clams. I was pleased until I read the label: “Product of China–wild caught”
*spitty face *
Are you kidding?! Eat a filter-feeder that came from the waters of China?! I’d rather gargle p*ee! Well, depending on where the pee came from. Like if it were Chinese p*ee, for instance.
I guess that one would be a toss-up.
Lucrative Fees May Deter Efforts to Alter Loans
Many mortgage companies are reluctant to give strapped homeowners a break because the companies collect lucrative fees on delinquent loans.
Even when borrowers stop paying, mortgage companies that service the loans collect fees out of the proceeds when homes are ultimately sold in foreclosure. So the longer borrowers remain delinquent, the greater the opportunities for these mortgage companies to extract revenue — fees for insurance, appraisals, title searches and legal services.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/business/30services.html?_r=1&hp
Not paying a fee on a fee to pay the fee for the fee is just un-American!
We’ll have no more of that dang socialeest/commie talk around here! Unless you can pay the fee…
I had an idea for a thread. It occurred to me that we often say even though we know better or we run into people off the blog that don’t realize that Presidents don’t research economic policy decisions themselves. They have advisors and perhaps they tap other experts in the field.
It would be really helpful to me and perhaps others to have a list of leading economists (past and present) with maybe a bullet point list as to how they are advising or influencing our government officials. Then we could compare and contrast the theories and reasoning behind them. I’ve been thinking about asking several news magazines if they may be interested in tackling this too.
Most of the voting public appears to imagine an administration that pulls out ideas from their own brain cells never realizing these ideas and concepts have been around for a long time, are what past systems have been based on and cross party lines.
That’s a great idea CarrieAnn and yes, one only a good magazine (or other research organization) has the resources to produce.
Too busy at work to post these days, but went out for some sushi last night and was surprised to see “geoduck” on the board of specials. Apparently there was a sushi dish that somehow included it, as well as a soup of some sort.
Eew.
I was too busy to post ’cause I was on vacation, but now that you mention The Seafood That Should Not Be Named As It Is, there is a Korean seafood market not too far from me that advertises geoduck and other delicacies in its front window. Perhaps flown in from Washington state?
“geoduck”
Had to google that one to find out what it was! That is one ‘UGLY’ sucker!!!
Rest assured, if it’s a bizarre or disgusting creature, it will find it’s way onto a sushi menu.
I recently realized geoduck is pronounced ‘gooey-duck’(?). Is there nothing about this creature that isn’t weird?
Slothy, I’m sorry you started posting after the ‘Geoduck Event’. You would have been a valuable addition to the week-long delightful festival of discussion and fascinating photos and sniggering jests….everything we love the HBB for.
Hahaha!
Harvesting those critters was one of the jobs that Mike Rowe did on “Dirty Jobs”. They cooked one up on the show and it did not look appetizing at all.
Woulda been good had they cooked it up as chicken fried geoduck with white gravey, mashed potatos, and collard greens, maybe a side of corn and some sweet tea.
(Homage to yesterday’s chicken fried steak thread…and alpha - I don’t think I’ve ever had liver or gizzards or whatever you said you had outside of Santa Fe. wow. I was thinking along the line of something involving lots of cheese, even more ‘fried’, and lots of green chile sauce).
Woulda been good had they cooked it up as chicken fried geoduck with white gravey, mashed potatos, and collard greens, maybe a side of corn and some sweet tea.
No, it wouldn’t. It’d be like eating a breaded bouncy-ball. Geoduck gets tough with the slightest over-cooking, the slightest, like other delicate sea-food. I steam them for about 30 seconds only and that’s it. Then the siphon sheath slides right off, you pop out the stomach, which isn’t very well attached, and there you go.
Deliciousness!
Oh.
How the heck are fried clams cooked?
Just wondering.
How the heck are fried clams cooked?
Oh, now you’re just trickin’ me! They’re not the same in results, they just aren’t. I don’t know why. I’ll ask Baby Jeebus. Or someone at Taylor, and then I’ll tell you, okay, Mr. Inquiring Foodie Man?
I’m not sure clams qualify as “delicate sea food” now that I think about it…
(Can you tell I’m absolutely tired of both the bubble and its effects, and tired from mini-chile?)
Oly- Can’t you slice them real small and flash fry them like calamari? (And what do you do with leftover ’siphon sheath’?)
Bad Chile- It was an odd restaurant. In a scruffier part of Santa Fe, and had a lot of truck driver types with impassive Indian expressions. Think Northern Exposure. If my GF of the time ever starts talking to me again, I’ll ask her the name- she’ll remember. (She remembers everything- a fatal flaw.)
Harvesting those critters was one of the jobs that Mike Rowe did on “Dirty Jobs”. They cooked one up on the show and it did not look appetizing at all.
Yar! A great episode. Filmed at a Taylor Shellfish site. http://www.taylorshellfishfarms.com
They do most of the aquaculture out here. You all oughtta youtube it. Simply glorious.
They basically pressure-wash them out of the beach, since they are dug in so deeply.
but went out for some sushi last night and was surprised to see “geoduck” on the board of specials.
I bet it was expensive. They rarely offer them in downtown Oly, only miles from acres of tidebeds stuffed full of the giant funny-looking clams—because mostly no one hereabouts is willing to pay what the Japanese will.
I want a geo-duck!! Oly promised me one, but, well, anyway…
And THEN you said you didn’t want it anymore. So I said ‘oh’. And then you pouted about not getting one anyway—say, what are you, a Gemini?
Too late by then—they only are reachable at minus tides. At least by me. I’m a good swimmer but I ain’t THAT good a swimmer.
Just returned to Orlando from a series of long trips. Drove down from Raleigh yesterday. What surprised me is that, relative to the fairly light traffic, I saw hardly any “touristy” vehicles. I don’t remember seeing so few apparent tourists driving to Florida at this time of year since the gas rationing of the 1970s. The folks who say tourism is down only a little, if there are any of those folks left, must be smoking something IMO. If traffic at the airport is down and they aren’t on the roads, how are all the supposed visitors arriving?
Stopped to tire-kick at a new development near Jax; the very pleasant agent mentioned the “uptick” in sales reported on Monday or Tuesday, but readily caved when I noted that YOY is down about 22%. It was a fairly large development and sales center and there were zero other lookers in the hour and a half I was there.
From an earlier-in-the-month trip to Bradenton-Sarasota: along roads that I drive each time, I see many, many For Rent signs where For Sale ones had been for the past year or two. This agrees with observations of friends here who report increasing rental availability in their neighborhoods (I haven’t confirmed this by tracking listings).
Wish I had been back in time to join the comments on Ahansen’s excellent demographic observations in Tuesday’s post here.
Um, when I lived in Florida the tourists came in December and left right around Easter. Rental rates for vacation condos are highest in February and March.
Yes, there normally are family vacations to WDW and other Orlando attractions in the summer, but Florida’s total “instantaneous” population is still lower at that time.
I think the Brits move in come summer.
Bill - my experience is different. I was born (early ’40s) and raised in Orlando. Lived in Kissimmee for work in the 1970s and bought my rationed gas there. Disney probably attracts more no-kids adults now than then, sure. But the summer school vacation period is when JSP packs up Mom & the kids in the van and come down here. Room rates during the Christmas holidays and peak winter months are just too high for the average tourist, and the school holiday too short, so it’s not likely families from Roanoke are driving down in February. Foreigners travel on a different calendar and they swarm in during the good weather. Used to be so many Brazilians that there were bus fleets to take them to the florida Mall for shopping. Snowbirds, of course, come in the Fall and leave around Easter. But summer has always been very busy for U.S. families with kids.
I suspect that what is keeping the turnstiles moving at the big attractions right now, is mostly the large discounts to locals, just the way it played out in the ’70s. My $.02.
Thanks for the on-site observations, Chip. One of the things that makes Ben’s blog so valuable.
Thanks, Oly.
Other countries aren’t stupid enough to let their jobs go outside their borders . How many jobs did China add to our collective American job
bank for the last 10 years ? Do you see many ads in the paper for jobs being offered from Mexico to Americans from the recent American Companies that moved there?
Big Business wants open borders when it comes to wage competition ,and why wouldn’t slave labor Countries be open to any American Company opening up a manufacturing plant in their Country …….it creates jobs ,and they come out ahead and we lose . Oh no ,Big Business thought we could live on credit .
The interactions of the various Stock Markets World wide is another rigged Casino game .Regulators can’t even keep tract of America Business and the New York Stock Exchange ,let alone regulate World
wide gaming of the system .
Credit was used to keep the people from rioting as their jobs were shipped overseas. We create a mirage of wealth and that created service jobs. That bublle just burst.
Right on the money Measton.
Credit was used to keep the people from rioting as their jobs were shipped overseas.
Rightio!
Let’s hear it for freedom. The US public had the choice - cheap goods or good jobs - they voted by making WalMart the largest retailer in the country.
The raging desire for fancy crap affordable on a McDonald’s paycheck opened the door to the flood of credit.
Except for the part about having J6P having a choice (he didn’t) you got the rest of it right.
Lucrative Fees May Deter Efforts to Alter Loans
New York Times
Homeowners and Investors May Lose, but the Bank Wins (July 30, 2009)
Industry insiders and legal experts say the limited capacity of mortgage companies is not the primary factor impeding the government’s $75 billion program to prevent foreclosures. Instead, it is that many mortgage companies are reluctant to give strapped homeowners a break because the companies collect lucrative fees on delinquent loans.
Even when borrowers stop paying, mortgage companies that service the loans collect fees out of the proceeds when homes are ultimately sold in foreclosure. So the longer borrowers remain delinquent, the greater the opportunities for these mortgage companies to extract revenue — fees for insurance, appraisals, title searches and legal services.
“It frustrates me when I see the government looking to the servicer for the solution, because it will never ever happen,” said Margery Golant, a Florida lawyer who defends homeowners against foreclosure and who worked in the law department of a major mortgage company, Ocwen Financial. “I don’t think they’re motivated to do modifications at all. They keep hitting the loan all the way through for junk fees. It’s a license to do whatever they want.”
Rich Miller, a governance project manager at Countrywide Financial and Bank of America before he left in January, said Bank of America had been reluctant to modify loans, which hurt the bottom line. The company has been waiting and hoping the economy will improve and delinquent customers will resume making payments, he said.
“That’s the short-term strategy,” said Mr. Miller, who oversaw training programs at Countrywide, which was bought by Bank of America. He now works as an industry consultant.
Bank of America disputed that characterization. “To think that somehow or other we would jeopardize investor relationships and customer relationships for the very small incremental income we would receive by delaying seems ludicrous,” said Robert V. James, the bank’s senior vice president for mortgage operations and insurance. “It’s not the right thing to do.”
Mortgage companies, some of which are affiliated with the nation’s largest banks, are paid to manage pools of loans owned by investors. The companies typically collect a percentage of the value of the loans they service. They extract their share regardless of whether borrowers are current on their payments. Indeed, their percentage often increases on delinquent loans.
Legal experts say the opportunities for additional revenue in delinquency are considerable, confronting mortgage companies with a conflict between their own financial interest in collecting fees and their responsibility to recoup money for investors who own most mortgages.
“The rules by which servicers are reimbursed for expenses may provide a perverse incentive to foreclose rather than modify,” concluded a recent paper published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.
Under the Obama administration’s foreclosure program, a servicer that modifies a loan for a homeowner collects $1,000 from the government, followed by $1,000 a year for each of the next three years. A senior Treasury adviser, Seth Wheeler, said these payments amounted to “meaningful incentives to servicers to help overcome the challenges and competing demands they face in considering and completing loan modifications.” He added that mortgage companies “are contractually obligated to the terms of this program, which require them to offer modifications to qualified borrowers.”
But experts say the administration’s incentives are often outweighed by the benefits of collecting fees from delinquency, and then more fees through the sale of homes in foreclosure.
“If they do a loan modification, they get a few shekels from the government,” said David Dickey, who led a mortgage sales team at Countrywide and Bank of America, leaving in March to start his own mortgage advisory firm, National Home Loan Advocates. By contrast, he said, the road to foreclosure is lined with fees, especially if it is prolonged. “There’s all sorts of things behind the scenes,” he said.
When borrowers fall behind, mortgage companies typically collect late fees reaching 6 percent of the monthly payments.
“For many subprime servicers, late fees alone constitute a significant fraction of their total income and profit,” said Diane E. Thompson, a lawyer for the National Consumer Law Center, in testimony to the Senate Banking Committee this month. “Servicers thus have an incentive to push homeowners into late payments and keep them there: if the loan pays late, the servicer is more likely to profit.”
She cited Ocwen Financial, which reported that nearly 12 percent of its income in 2007 came from fees to borrowers.
In the 90s, late fees became 50% of the banking industry’s profit. Thank god they didn’t try to game the system so you were somehow late.
Oh wait…
WSJ Blogs
* July 30, 2009, 8:30 AM ET
Daily Show Gets Some Laughs Out of Geithner’s Home Troubles
By Conor Dougherty
Last night The Daily Show had some fun with the difficulty Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is having in selling his Larchmont, NY home, calling it a “toxic asset” and referring to his blue tile bathroom as “ghastly.” It also makes jokes that Mr. Geithner’s woes are the result of Fed policies “he helped to implement.”
…The Daily Show piece… starts by describing the thawing real estate market but noting a “tragic tale” about “a family forced to move when the father had to take a job in a different city, and now their well-appointed home remains unsold.” The house, of course, is Mr. Geithner’s.
The Daily Show interviews a real estate agent who says Mr. Geithner priced his house “way too high” but didn’t want to take a price reduction. According to the piece, Mr. Geithner bought his house during the 2004 peak for $1.6 million but, despite the subsequent falloff in prices, listed it for slightly more.
The Daily Show drags out Yale Economist Robert Shiller for a little perspective on the matter.
“Is it not like hiring a personal trainer who is morbidly obese?” Daily Show correspondent John Oliver asks Mr. Shiller, about hiring a Treasury secretary who can’t seem to navigate the real estate market.
…
“Is it not like hiring a personal trainer who is morbidly obese?” Actually, having Geithner as SecTreas is more like hiring a personal trainer to make you morbidly obese!
TTT is a fireman with a flame-thrower instead of a fire extinguisher. A great white shark as head lifeguard. A geo-duck wearing a speedo as spokesman for public decency…
Now that’s funny! (and slightly disturbing as well)
It’s almost like having a tax evader as Treasury secretary!
Oh wait…
My guess is Geitner gets 2 million for his house after he leaves office. The buyer will be a former Goldman Sachs executive.
Congressman Randy “Duke” Cunningham sold a San Diego home at a huge markup-to-market value to a defense contractor, a deal which helped land him in jail.
+1. Exactly.
Well played.
I still say he’s pricing it high and renting because he thinks he may be moving back in soon.
They were right, that bathroom IS ghastly.
I thought we would play with our landlords a bit and asked them how much to buy their home?
This is an e-mail from the wife of Bob:
“Sorry for just now getting back to you on the possible purchase of Bobs’ house , He has been working a lot of overtime and I wanted to research the current comps. Not so much what people are listing their houses for.. but what they are actually selling them for. Last year we had it listed with Alan next door for $349,000.00. The market has gone down even more since then. The current 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage homes with pools are selling between $290,000.00 and $250,000.00. Somewhere in the middle would be great, but we are defiantly willing to negotiate. Let us know what you are looking to pay and we’ll go from there. You still have 8 months left on the lease so at $1,500.00 a month you will save $12,000.00 in rent. Plus the headache of moving again. Could be a WIN / WIN on both ends…:)
MAKE AN OFFER !!!!!!”
I wrote back:
“I have attached a proper comparable for you.
The value of a home should be between 120x and 150x of the rental price. To apply a 150x multiplier one would need to had updated a few things like the kitchen, bathrooms.
Since none of these things have been done and it appears that the roof may need doing as well. We feel your homes value should be in the 120 multiplier.
So for your home:
1500 X 120 = 180,000
Here is a recent comp of a newer home but with the same size, pool that sold for 181,000.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds-eye-view-map/46482091_zpid/#birds-eye-view
If we wanted to spend more we would most likely go with something much newer, more like this 2007 built home home with pool priced at 239,000:
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/17744-N-44Th-Pl_Loxahatchee_FL_33470_1102385049
We do not wish to insult you and I hope I have not, these are real numbers that I have obtained based on real sales.
Sincerely,”
She wrote back:
“Our bottom line is $234,900 “as is” we can’t afford to go any lower so we have decided to keep the home as a rental until the market turns around”.
I wrote my husband and e mail:
“Hey baby,
This shows you how selfish the people are in this entire stupid freaking housing market when you get a seller saying they tried to sell for 349,000 last year ( tried to find a huge sucker) , and then says buy our house now between 250,000 and 290,000….takes a breath of air and then says “bottom line” is 234,900. They are still trying to find more suckers and are trying to make a pile of money.
Now they say they are going to wait until the market turns around. I hope that they have kids really fast so they can have them take over their mortgage one day as NO ONE is going to re start this housing market again in our lifetime.
The day I pay 234,900 for a crap shack like this is the day I have completely LOST my mind. In fact when the housing market does finally bottom out I am sure that 175,000 would seem like the good ole days to our landlords who are completely NUTS. They will kick themselves for not taking that generous offer.
1995 built house House needs: new roof
pool needs resurfacing
new kitchen
new bathroom counters, cub-boards.
gutters
more dirt to bring up low areas.
On top of the barn and riding ring.”
To my landlords, I will send them a simple “thank you”
I have 8 months left on this rental with the option of re-new for another year…I bet these idiots will try to raise my rent in 8 months.
I think I am going to be a renter for a long time.
I hate this mess I just wanted to have my horses at home.
“but we are defiantly willing to negotiate”
Yes, they do seem very defiant indeed.
“You still have 8 months left on the lease so at $1,500.00 a month you will save $12,000.00 in rent.”
How nice of her to put your best financial interest above her petty and f-cking disgustingly selfish motives. She didn’t mention that your monthly nut would climb to near $2,000, not including all of the maintenance that you pointed out.
But in other news the Dow is up 153 points right now. Maybe they have fixed the economy and all is good. Get ready with that $290,000 offer, just in case.
“…but we are defiantly willing to negotiate.”
LOL. How far can this negotiation go if one of the parties has that kind of attitude?
But the spell checker said it was OK!!
Were truer words ever put to , uh, pixel?
Both comps seem to be very nice houses- assuming no Chinese drywall, of course! If you were so inclined, you could offer $180K for the second comp (asking $239K). Looks like there is a bit of yard for the horses.
My old landlord bought in 2006 for 780k, rent is 3000 a month for both units. Now he wants to sell for 900kie 900/3 = 300x monthly rent. He admitted he was loosing close to 2000 a month when fully rented. I think he put down a big down payment. I’d be willing to buy the place for about half what he’s asking but it’s not worth bringing it up if he lives in this kind of fantasy world.
Did you ask him “If you are losing 2000 a month fully rented, why in god’s name would anybody pay you MORE than you paid for the property?”
How can he not see that he has seriously overpaid for the property?
Because he’s still sailing down the river called Denial.
While I agree your LL may be asking for an unrealistic price, but all financial transactions are based on “selfishness”. Sellers want the highest possible price they can get and buyers want the lowest prices they can get. It is very definition of asset buying / selling, no one is in it for someone else’s well being. The LL may very well regret not taking $180K some years down the road when the “turnaround” doesn’t materialize, but it is more “unrealistic hope” rather than selfishness IMHO.
+1, coug.
I had the same reaction on reading this thread. The buyers and sellers interested are diametically-opposed. You should not take it personally that they want to reduce their losses as much as possible, just as they should not take it personally that you would like to buy at a favorable price.
interested ==> interests
You’re more gutsy than I am toying with your landlord like that
Our bottom line is $234,900 “as is” we can’t afford to go any lower
This sort of statement always leads me to remind the person that what they can or can’t afford has no bearing on what the house is worth.
“You’re more gutsy than I am toying with your landlord like that”
Yes. You are better off low-balling OTHER sellers. With your landlord, you have something to lose (your rental); with other sellers, you have NOTHING to lose by bursting their bubbles.
SKB– I *heart* you.
A house with a pool not in the ghetto for $180K!?! Must not be Virginia Beach.
That’s a fairly high lease cost per foot for Florida right now, at least compared to central FL and assuming your square footage is about the same as the comp. We are paying a hair under 50 cents per air conditioned square foot and all exterior upkeep is included, including pool maintenance. And there is plenty available. Not for horses, but I wonder if there might be more horse-property owners who want to rent out than there are horse owners looking to rent a property.
Sounds like you are in the driver’s seat big-time.
Might be that the owner’s bottom line is related as much to what they owe as to notions of current value.
I’ve been looking into the coming mortgage resets of the Alt-A and Prime. I have found some preliminary information that these resets are running ahead of schedule. Pick A Payment was mentioned.
“About 40% of the option ARMs that were underwritten in 2006 and 2007 are already delinquent. ” I’m very suspicious of that number. I don’t think that the source - Business Week - understands that statement is dependent upon more than just late payments and is not foreclosure - late payments, partial payments, jingle mail, squatting, etc. Still, I really need hard numbers for this. What it does state is that the mortgage reset chart is obsolete. Note that there is nothing to take it’s place. Again, we are in uncharted waters.
In any case, the number itself indicates that the wave of resets is early due to a simple inability to pay the original mortgage and the borrowers realization that the loan balance was increasing while the value of the house was declining.
I’m currently in the “will arrive early” camp. The are other people who apparently agree: Barney Frank and Barrack Obama. They are directly threatening the lenders themselves for not getting more workouts in the pipeline. Called them to Washington they did! They went and got yelled at. I smell panic that the green shoots could be in trouble.
Gee. Ya think?
Here is the link.
http://www.businessweek.com/investing/wall_street_news_blog/archives/2009/07/option_arm_loan.html
Who was it that said, ” I see debt people.”
Roidy
P.S. Global unrest is increasing. I’m a real fan of globalization. I just wish we had put adults in charge of its growth and development.
My question: When will the high-end inventory avalanche start?
Will it be an avalanche, or will be it a long, slow, drawn-out death-by-a-thousand-tiny-cuts?
I would guess the later.
If got that 80’s classic tune “turning Japanese” running through my head.
“They are directly threatening the lenders themselves for not getting more workouts in the pipeline. Called them to Washington they did! They went and got yelled at. I smell panic that the green shoots could be in trouble.”
I’ve posted this before, but a friend of mine who is an appraiser with B of A said to me that Obama & Co have about 9 months to “figure something out” or 2010 will be beyond ugly in the housing market. She said most of their time is spent trying to mop up the Countrywide mess they inherited, but the vast majority of loans can’t be helped (too under water, don’t qualify for a refinance based on income, etc.).
The Market Ticker blog has a good post on the latest talk about cram downs…and how they would make the major banks immediately insolvent, as at that point they would have to mark down those loans to the cram down value…i.e. no more extend and pretend.
Lisa, you said:
“I’ve posted this before, but a friend of mine who is an appraiser with B of A said to me that Obama & Co have about 9 months to “figure something out” or 2010 will be beyond ugly in the housing market.”
Ok, does this mean that the housing market data is so poorly understood that the current optimism is misplaced? I think your friend correct, but I am hearing so many things from so many sources both good and bad. None of it hangs together. No coherent picture exists.
I’m so frustrated. I saw this coming and got my 401k out of stocks, SIV, and MBSs in January of 2007. I cannot seem to get ANY truthful analysis or facts - then or now. Everyone seems to be looking at percentages but no absolute numbers.
Take the Baltic Dry Index as an example. It indicates the current global trade level because the BDI is a direct measure of shipping costs. Late in 2008 it crashed from a lofty 11,000 or so to less than 1000. Now it is up to 3000 or so. It is higher than before 2003 but way lower than 2008 or 2004/2005. I’m guessing that the “new normal” is here. The analysts seem to see nothing but the pop up from the low and declare how great it all is.
Ok, now I look at DJIA: 9200 or so. Down from an impressive 14,000 with a dip to 6500 this past March. DJT (Transportations) 3500 or so from 5500 in 2008 with a dip to 2200 (ouch!). See? More new normal. Again, the analysts look at the percentage gain and get all mushy on me.
This is all very nice except that there are more housing problems coming. I know this. Also, looking at these numbers, how is it that the recovery will be V-Shaped to the sky? From the numbers and charts, hasn’t the recovery already experienced its V-shape? That V was in March.
One last thing, and I’ll shut up for a while. There is likely to be an oil price crash this year. Oil has been slowly trending down and will reach an unsupportable price point. It will collapse at that point because of a serious glut on a global scale. This will cause a real problem in the oil states ( I live in one.) but be beneficial to the economy as a whole. So, at least that will aid the total recovery.
I just can’t see the giddy optimism from the over done snap backs in this data. We are moving toward new normal, but it appears that we are compelled to loose more money along the way.
Or maybe I just don’t get it. Gee.
Roidy
ACH -
My friend the appraiser was referring to the massive number of NODs / foreclosures that will be hitting the pipeline next year. The majority of the Countrywide loans that B of A “inherited” don’t qualify for any of the re-finance programs (horrible underwriting quality, underwater, FB now unemployed or debt to income ratios don’t work, etc.).
I read a post on one of the mortgage blogs that suggested all the publicity about super low interest rates, re-fi now, blah, blah would actually speed up the bust….a bunch of FB’s rushing to re-fi, and learning just how underwater they really are, and that they don’t qualify for anything other than the toxic loan they are now officially stuck in. Cue the jingle mail.
Lisa,
Your appraiser story caught my attention the last time you shared it too. Is this a bubble zone location?
CarrieAnn,
You bettcha! Northern CA, home of the mega-bubble.
If the Fed’s optimistic forecast for second-half growth fails to pan out, should we expect another stock market crash this October? I frankly see no fundamental reason the stock market has risen meteorically thus far into the year. Isn’t the economy in the worst slump since the 1930s at the moment? And aren’t many of the would-be investors sidelined by a lack of spare change to invest? I can’t help but wonder about the source of liquidity which has driven the stock market up sharply in recent months.
Wall Street Journal
* TODAY’S MARKETS
* JULY 30, 2009, 4:40 A.M. ET
Demand Fears Rattle Markets
By PETER A. MCKAY and GEOFFREY ROGOW
Worry that poor economic conditions will restrain commodity demand and hurt profits of metals and oil companies helped drive stocks lower on Wednesday.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 26.00 points, or 0.3%, to 9070.72 amid declines in energy components Chevron and Exxon Mobil and manufacturers Caterpillar and General Electric. The S&P 500 declined 4.47 points, or 0.5%, to 975.15 as its energy sector sank 2.3% and its basic-materials group fell 2.1%.
Oil-company stocks fell as crude-oil futures slid $3.88 to $63.35 a barrel after U.S. inventory data showed a surprise increase in stockpiles. ConocoPhillips, which posted a 76% decline in earnings, fell 3.5%.
ArcelorMittal fell 6.3% after the world’s largest steelmaker reported a loss that was wider than expected amid a slump in sales. Other metals stocks also sank, with Dow component Alcoa sliding 2.1%.
There were mounting concerns that the U.S. and China, the world’s two biggest users of most major natural resources, may see demand stay weak longer than previously expected. The Chinese stock market suffered its biggest percentage drop since mid-November on concerns that the government may start to tighten credit after banks there lent a record $1.08 trillion in the first half of the year.
Economic signals in the U.S. were mixed. Durable-goods orders fell 2.4% last month, though orders outside transportation sector rose. The Federal Reserve’s “beige book” report on regional conditions showed that U.S. economic activity overall remained weak but that the recession seemed to be growing less severe. New York Federal Reserve Bank President William Dudley said that the U.S. is likely to see moderate growth in the second half of 2009, but at a muted pace.
…
Chinese stock market earthquake noted. It is still unclear whether a tsunami will be triggered.
Financial Times
Short View: Shanghai surprise
By John Authers, Investment editor
Published: July 29 2009 18:33 | Last updated: July 29 2009 18:33
The world had an echo on Wednesday of the “Shanghai surprise” that sparked the first panic of the credit crisis.
On February 26 2007, the Shanghai composite index, which had rallied for months, suddenly fell 268 points, or 8.8 per cent. A global sell-off ensued. As it turned out, the first Shanghai bubble kept inflating for six more months before popping in October 2007.
…
Don’t count on it. Chinese save prodigious amounts of money and there are few channels to invest. That’s not to say there is no bubble, but I don’t see the trigger that will pop it.
Chinese housing market… well entirely different story.
Yensoy,
The bubble has not yet popped?
Corporate profits plunging
Unemployment rising
Foreclosure Train still rolling
Wages falling
State Government revenue plunging
Higher cost of borrowing
All this and the Stock Market continues to rise. I guess if you hold the keys to the house, you can pretty much do anything. (Goldman and the Stock Market)
Just remember, the stock market always goes up, in the long run.
Just remember, the stock market always goes up, in the long run. And, in the long run, we are all dead. Does that mean we’ll all be dead before this stock market will go up?
Take a look at the recent gains in the headline indexes for your answer. They have recently gone up like a moon shot, against the backdrop of ever-gloomy economic news. You would think the aging bulls would eventually run out of Viagra, but I guess that is not to be.
You are crazy. Every company has beat analysts’ expectations this earning season.
Is that like real estate?
The very same idea (”real estate always goes up, in the long run”).
I was thinking about that this morning, and had to remind myself that the stock market rises on earnings more than anything else, and is very shortsighted.
I can attest to that. Have been involved in Investor Relations for a couple of companies, and there is absolutely no rhyme or reason for why the market reacts the way it does to earnings. The companies would beat expectations - revenue increase YOY, great EPS etc. and still their stock would tank — its like the street is run by kids who haven’t quite figured out what net income means.
New York Times
Businesswoman Sues California for Paying With I.O.U.’s
By REBECCA CATHCART
Published: July 29, 2009
LOS ANGELES — The owner of an embroidery and printing business sued California’s controller and treasurer on Wednesday, saying they had violated state and federal law by issuing hundreds of thousands of i.o.u.’s since July 2 to vendors like herself with no immediate prospect that they could be cashed.
The suit, which seeks certification as a class action on behalf of all affected vendors, was filed in the Federal District Court in San Francisco. It demands that California stop issuing the i.o.u.’s, or registered warrants, and redeem all those it has dispensed.
“I’ve never seen a state behave in such a cavalier manner to the people that provide goods and services that enable it to operate,” said William M. Audet, the lawyer for the plaintiff. “The state is forcing people to accept these pieces of paper and pay taxes on them. Small businesses are closing, and more will close by the time the state redeems these warrants.”
The plaintiff, Nancy Baird, said she would have to shut her business if California did not quickly redeem her $27,752.16 i.o.u., the payment given her for polo shirts and uniforms supplied to a state-run youth camp. Her bank would not accept the warrant, she said, because she had had an account there only nine months.
Tom Dresslar, a spokesman for State Treasurer Bill Lockyer, said Mr. Lockyer “understands the frustration felt by i.o.u. recipients and feels bad about the hardship they’ve suffered.” But, Mr. Dresslar said, the state’s process for issuing and redeeming the warrants “meets all legal and constitutional requirements.”
…
Seriously, how do they think they are going to keep operating when all their vendors are closed and nobody else will do business with them? And how are they going to pay to defend themselves against the lawsuits?
Again, they’ve mistaken the map for the terrain.
A “youth camp” has ordered 26K worth of logo shirts?!!! WTF?
In defense of Ahnold, a state which employs a “soak-the-rich” tax strategy may soon find many of its wealthy residents (read “entrepreneurs and corporate managers”) fleeing to tax havens, leaving behind the indigent masses with high need for government services and little ability to pay for them.
Schwarzenegger’s approval numbers hit an all-time low
By Steven Harmon
Contra Costa Times
Posted: 07/29/2009 10:00:00 PM PDT
Updated: 07/30/2009 07:07:40 AM PDT
SACRAMENTO — Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has sunk to an all-time low among Californians in a new survey that also finds that residents, while strongly in favor of environmental regulations, want to slow down on environmental reforms while the economy is still taking a beating.
Schwarzenegger’s job approval rating is now at 28 percent, according to a poll by the Public Policy Institute of California, comparable to the ratings faced by former Gov. Gray Davis before he was recalled in 2003.
The poll of 2,501 adults was taken July 7-21, at the height of budget negotiations but before the $26 billion deficit had been resolved. Ironically, Schwarzenegger had attempted to appeal to populist sentiment by refusing to consider taxes as a way to climb out of the budget hole, using a combination of cuts, fund shifts and borrowing instead.
“A lot of the cuts being made were not popular, and he really took the lead and was out front on what he said was needed — staying firm on not raising taxes — so the entire deal has his fingerprints,” said Melissa Michelson, a political science professor at Cal State East Bay. “I hear from a lot of people who would have understood if some taxes were raised. Raising taxes on the wealthy sure would have been more palatable than cuts on students, elderly and children.”
…
At least he has the balls to take on the unions.I think he is doing a great job.
He hasn’t taken on the Dept. of Corrections yet, who truly dominate this state.
many of its wealthy residents (read “entrepreneurs and corporate managers”) fleeing to tax havens ??
True story;…Local Corporate CEO of a Medium sized local company planning retirement…Along with other assets his major holding is roughly a $100 mil stock option portfolio…About two years before retirement, he purchases a home in Florida, establishes residency there and flys back and forth to work…Finally Retires…
Exercises his options and sells the entire portfolio of stock thereby “stiffing” California of their Capital Gain tax…This is happening at “all” income levels….I know at least a dozen muni employees and first responders who have purchased homes in Reno Nevada, established their residency to avoid state tax and still have their homes in their fair city that they receive their “Big Fat Pension” from…
NYS, or specifically the county I live in, have employee residency laws. I don’t see how CA could allow employees to reside in another state.
many of its wealthy residents (read “entrepreneurs and corporate managers”) fleeing to tax havens,
Who is John Galt?
LOL - yeah that comes to mind.
The same principle that applies to CA in the U.S. applies to the U.S. in the world, BTW.
WSJ: A Senate panel has subpoenaed financial institutions, including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Deutsche Bank AG, seeking evidence of fraud in last year’s mortgage-market meltdown.
Hypothetical situation:
Suppose it turned out that top managers at Megabank, Inc knowingly took actions to make loans that were almost certainly never going to be repaid, knowing full well that in the event of a foreclosure crisis, they would get made whole by insurance contracts with AIG which had the additional backing of reinsurance from Uncle Sam. Would that constitute fraud?
Of course, this is just a hypothetical — I don’t mean to suggest anything like this has or even could ever happen.
Well, “knowingly” is strictly subjective, and thus not prosecutable right?
(Just presenting what their defense will be, i.e. how they’ll certainly get off scot-free)
Nope. “Knowingly” is a typical mens rea term of art and a component of many criminal prima facie cases.
Yeah yeah - I was just being rhetorical mostly. Nevertheless unless they had it in writing that AIG would get bailed out by Sammie (which certainly they didn’t), then the prosecution couldn’t claim that they “knew” it would happen. So maybe they could build a case for negligence, but probably not fraud (for example).
Lawyers like things in writing for some reason. It seems backroom verbal wink-winks over scotch and cigars makes for poor prosecution. Which is why there are a lot of backrooms in NYC and in DC.
“Of course, this is just a hypothetical — I don’t mean to suggest anything like this has or even could ever happen.”
We can still dream cant we?
Tax evaders flock to IRS to report their sins
The number of illegal immigrants living in Arizona has plunged by one-third in the past two years amid a dismal job market and stiffer enforcement of immigration laws, according to researchers who released a new report. After reaching a high of 530,000 in 2007, Arizona’s undocumented population now numbers about 350,000, a drop of about 180,000 people.
I’m seeing “on the ground” evidence all over Tucson. Data points:
1. Fewer of those one-van shuttle companies. They operate the vans that ply the Nogales-Tucson-Phoenix route. And, lemme tell ya something, they’re not dropping air passengers off at Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport.
2. Construction’s way down. Which means that there are fewer sites to employ the illegal aliens.
3. Enrollment in the local schools? Also going down. Tucson Unified School District has already experienced a drop of around 500.
The number of illegal immigrants living in Arizona has plunged by one-third in the past two years
Silver lining?
A lot of Arizonans would say so. More Tucson data points:
1. Apartment complexes on the heavily Hispanic south side started noting a surge in vacancy starting last year. The trend started after the state’s tougher employer sanctions law went into effect.
2. The Pima County Sheriff, Clarence Dupnik, recently came out in favor of asking the immigration status of kids in the local schools. For a long time, Dupnik had stayed away from this sort of talk. Joe Arpaio he’s not.
“After reaching a high of 530,000 in 2007, Arizona’s undocumented population now numbers about 350,000, a drop of about 180,000 people.”
Am I missing something here? If they are undocumented and we didn’t know that they were and loaned them big sums of money for houses and cars, how can we now state that 1/3 rd of them left AZ and that we now have about 350K left in AZ. Amazing what figures pop up in the news of late.
Am I the only one seeing more reporting of criminal activity especially in the more touristy cities? Could it be because tourism is down and law enforcement maybe subject to layoffs so let’s evoke the fear factor once again?
Former CBS newsman Dan Rather wants the White House to establish a commission to save the news business! At stake, he says, is the “very survival of American democracy.”
Rather said yesterday that such a commission on media reform ought to make recommendations on saving journalism jobs and create new business models to keep news organizations alive.
Speaking in Aspen, CO Rather said, “A truly free and independent press is the red beating heart of democracy and freedom. This is not something just for journalists to be concerned about, and the loss of jobs and the loss of newspapers, and the diminution of the American press’ traditional role of being the watchdog on power. This is something every citizen should be concerned about.”
Wait a sec. Rather wants a “truly free and independent press” supervised and sheltered by a federal commission?
Would he resurrect Joseph Geobbels to run it? (In wartime Germany Goebbels was Reich Minister of Propaganda. It was he who wrote: “Think of the press as a great keyboard upon which government can play.”
Government already has too much of the news media functioning as its public relations department. We hardly need a tax-paid federal commission to make matters worse.
And of course this Elite spread his elitist message in one of this nation’s primary bastions of elitism. “Hey Dan, you can go………and the Lear jet you flew in on.”
And when he was done blathering on the attendees went back to their luxury homes/hotels, while the waiters, cooks, dishwashers, etc. etc. cleaned up and drove home to Glenwood Springs ’cause they probably can’t afford anything anywhere near Aspen.
cause they probably can’t afford anything anywhere near Aspen. Aspen is such a high-falutin’ place I refuse to drive through it. They wouldn’t want me as a visitor anyway.
Once in your life you should drive through in the summer and take the road up to Berthod Pass (I think that’s what it’s called). It’s the “shortcut” towards Denver.
The road hugs the side of the mountain and is barely one lane in spots. It’s a great drive and downright scary in spots.
“Government already has too much of the news media functioning as its public relations department. We hardly need a tax-paid federal commission to make matters worse.”
Preach it! Dig up and print real news and you won’t have any problems Mist’a Rather.
We already HAVE an excellent national news and information service. It’s called PBS. T’would would be nice if we who use it didn’t have to fund it twice.
LinkTV is another fine source of international news and broadcast services like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Rather himself hosts a high quality in depth news program on HDTV that exudes journalistic competence.
Print media, alas,is in deep yogurt. One good solar pulse and its importance will once again become obvious.
Print media, alas,is in deep yogurt.
Uh, I don’t think that’s yogurt.
I used to know a dozen people employed full time in print journalism. That number is now two. And they’re not confident in their future job prospects.
A few weeks ago, there was a “Daily Show” interview inside the hallowed halls of The New York Times. The interviewer (I think it was Jon Stewart) asked the Times guy, Richard Berke, if there was anything in the paper that happened today.
Berke said no.
As an aside, I worked with Berke on the college paper. He was a class behind me, and all I can say is, boy, has he aged. I suppose that working in an industry that’s going extinct will do that to a person.
That and the drinking.
Is it safe to say that news services with three-letter names are generally better than average?
PBS
NPR
BBC
Fox (oops!)
i stopped reading after this.
“Former CBS newsman Dan Rather wants…”
OT but one of the funniest Get Fuzzy strips last year was when poor Satchel got confused between “Goebbels” and “gerbils”.
Government already has too much of the news media functioning as its public relations department. We hardly need a tax-paid federal commission to make matters worse.
Right on.
“Corporations already have too much of the news media functioning as its public relations department. We hardly need a tax-paid federal commission to make matters worse.”
Fixed it for you.
Oh and it’s called the “FCC.”
The U.S. Treasury borrowed $39 billion yesterday in an auction that drew poor demand, raising worries over the cost of financing the government’s burgeoning budget deficit. The borrowing program didn’t do well Tuesday, either, and another attempt to peddle debt today is also expected to be disappointing.
What does this mean? Very likely the big lenders here and abroad are questioning the credit worthiness of the United States. The public debt is racing toward $12 trillion and the federal government’s outgo exceeds its income by about $4 billion per day.
Shouldn’t poor demand drive up interest rates??
It *should* but you have flunkies at the fed coming in and buying from the treasury when the rest of the planet won’t.
It should, and it will at some point, no matter what BB does.
What is the mechanism which will eventually stop the right hand holding freshly printed dollars from purchasing the T-bond held for sale by the left hand at whatever bid the right hand is willing to pay?
‘As for the US public debt, it is expected to increase until the country goes broke.” ~Bill Bonner
Somewhere in the 80s, we became a debtor nation. We were broke at point.
OK wow - you need to learn your history. We’ve been a debtor nation since the 1830’s. The last president to have no debt was Andrew Jackson.
I’m also familiar with how the American Revolutions was financed and the collapse of our first currency. And our second. As well us how the East India Company was economically killing the colonial investors/settlers and was the main cause of the revolution.
However, after WWII, we became a creditor nation by the simple virtue of having the largest and strongest economy left and remained so until the 80s. This meant that although we had debt, we could manage it.
We will never, ever pay off the federal debt as it stands now.
The debt will continue to increase till it cannot. Till the country cannot borrow as much as it needs to keep the facade going. And that is when TSHTF.
There’s not a hard wall there though. Unlike individual debtors, when the U.S. government can’t borrow anymore they simply just create their own money. They already are in fact.
Hey Olygal,
Check your email. I hope I did not land in the “spam” folder.
Oh, I will. Sorry. I’m not very attentive.
Midlands ambulance crews strain to help obese patients
By Michael O’Connor
WORLD-HERALD STAFF *
Four-hundred-, 600- and even 800-pound patients are presenting ambulance crews with some big challenges.
As obesity rates rise, paramedics in Nebraska and Iowa are faced with carrying more obese patients. In turn, paramedics find creative ways to move them, and some fire departments are looking to borrow or buy specialized equipment.
Lincoln Fire & Rescue, for example, is considering putting a construction crane and a forklift on call for patients who are too big to get out a door or down steps. Firefighters had to use a tarp to haul an 800-pound patient a few years ago.
It’s another example of how obesity can strain the health care system, whether that’s hospitals or ambulance crews. The Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha in recent years has purchased heavy-duty beds and wheelchairs for obese patients.
Adult obesity rates in Nebraska and Iowa have been rising.
In 2008, about 27 percent of the population in the two states was obese. That’s up from 23 percent in Nebraska and 24 percent in Iowa in 2005, according to a report by Trust for America’s Health, a nonprofit group that focuses on preventive health.
Lloyd Rupp, a battalion chief in the Omaha Fire Department, said his crews encounter a 400-pound-plus patient every several days. Five to 10 years ago, crews would run into such patients every couple of weeks.
Paramedics in Omaha, Sioux City, Iowa, and elsewhere occasionally must call in an extra crew to help carry big patients, particularly up or down steps.
Fire departments emphasized that even though large patients can be tougher to move, they are treated with the same respect as other patients.
When paramedics don’t have specialized equipment, they have to improvise.
“That is the trademark of firefighters,” said Pat Borer, deputy chief of the Lincoln department. “They are resourceful.”
Bill Lundy, volunteer captain with the York (Neb.) Fire Department, remembers a call several years ago involving a man who had suffered a heart attack in his basement apartment. The man weighed more than 350 pounds, and there wasn’t enough room to get him and the stretcher up the basement stairs. There was also concern about whether the staircase could support the man and the firefighters carrying him.
Firefighters unhinged an interior door, put the man on it and slid it through a basement window.
Wendee Brown, an Omaha fire captain, said big patients often apologize for their size.
“They are embarrassed,” she said. “You feel bad for them.”
Moving big patients is tricky, she said. It’s hard to get your arms around an obese patient, making it difficult to get leverage. If a patient is weak or unconscious, it’s even harder.
A few years ago, a woman weighing more than 600 pounds who was dehydrated and weak had fallen out of a chair. Firefighters couldn’t lift her onto a stretcher, so they used a backboard, which is normally used for people with neck or spine injuries.
Brown said firefighters rolled the woman onto her side and slid the board under her. They lifted the board onto the stretcher, then slid the board out.
Borer, the Lincoln fire official, said that several years ago crews used a 16-by-16-foot canvas tarp from a firetruck to move a patient who weighed more than 800 pounds.
Firefighters rolled up the tarp edges to create handles and slid the tarp under the person. An extra crew was called in to help, and it took about 10 firefighters to carry the person to the ambulance.
Standard response in Omaha for a medical call is an ambulance and a firetruck, with a combined crew of six members. Rupp said that a couple times a year an additional truck with four firefighters will be called to help when a patient weighs more than 500 pounds and must be carried up or down steps.
Omaha might purchase a special ambulance to make it easier to transport obese patients. The ambulance would be used for all patients, not just those who are obese.
A standard ambulance costs $190,000 to $200,000. Omaha is considering paying $15,000 to $20,000 more for one that comes with, along with a winch, a reinforced floor and a bigger patient compartment. Rupp said the ambulance would be purchased when an existing ambulance must be replaced.
Some fire departments are considering purchasing heavy-duty stretchers, which can come with hydraulic lifts.
The Council Bluffs Fire Department purchased one four years ago. The stretcher can hold up to 1,600 pounds, compared with the standard 700 pounds, and is 29 inches wide instead of 23 inches.
The department uses it for patients who are 400-pounds-plus, and it’s getting more use lately— once or twice per month instead of every other month, said Rick Benson, a division chief in the department.
For how little it sounds like most of this equipment is used, it sure sounds like ‘making do with what we have’ is a viable option.
Also, some machines in hospitals have weight limits on the patients they can take. CT scanners used to be limited to patients 300 lb or under. Heavier than that, the wheeled tray the patient lies on would break or bind. I guess patients too heavy for local hospitals would have to have CT scans done at the nearest veterinary hospital.
For how little it sounds like most of this equipment is used…
Look around you, my good sir. Do people appear to be getting any thinner?
You know what’s interesting to me is that I don’t see many fat people in Olympia. I mean seriously, multiple chin, has-own-gravitational-pull sort of fat. I wonder why that is? There’s lots and lots of health-conscious tree-huggers around, we’re bicycle friendly, pretty temperate (not right now, *pant, pant *)… so it’s easier to be outside. It’s probably harder to walk anywhere or do things outside when your eyes are melting outtn’ your flaming skull. Maybe these factors all add up?
You know what’s interesting to me is that I don’t see many fat people in Olympia. That’s ’cause the geoducks go ashore at night & eat all the fat people.
If ya think about it, in these areas most of the people were employed on farms or factories and ate accordingly. You could eat a chicken fried steak with mashed potatoes, pour on the gravy, drink lots of beer then go to work the next day and work it all off.
With mechanization of many of the calorie eating jobs, people aren’t working off the high fat diets in their day to day lives.
So they’re eating the same as they did 50 years ago (home cookin’) and packing on the pounds.
Naw, people are just stupid and lazy.
Come on, let’s call a spade a spade, alright?
I recall Henry Rollins referring to a certain niche of people as butt-faced and it just hit me recently - the fatter you get, the more your face looks like a butt! Those cheeks just tend to dominate the head. If that isn’t an incentive to stay in good shape, I don’t know what is.
Maybe a new medical specialty will be treating these behemoths on site- like being a ‘big animal’ vet. Either that or we’ll need ‘monster truck’ ambulances.
Either that or we’ll need ‘monster truck’ ambulances.
Awesome.
Will they drive over other cars and stuff to get to the hospital like on TeeVee?
The Bernanke Fed has repeatedly sounded the alarm bells on deflation. But two decades of deflation has not appeared to have been that damaging to Japanese households (except perhaps for those which bought lots of stocks or houses at the bubble peak). It seems like deflation would create winners and losers more than being universally bad. Savers would be among the winners while the Fed’s Wall Street banking constituency and those who recently bought houses (like Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner) would be among the losers. Am I missing something important here?
Given the appearance that developed nation central banking cartel members are united in their intention to use coordinated monetary policy to defeat deflation, I believe the European fears of deflation may prove unfounded.
Financial Times
Europeans expect prices to tumble
By Ralph Atkins in Frankfurt
Published: July 30 2009 12:34 | Last updated: July 30 2009 12:34
Eurozone consumers see inflation as vanquished and increasingly expect prices to tumble in the year ahead, according to a European Commission survey that could stoke fears of deflation.
Expectations about trends in consumer prices in the next year were this month more skewed towards falls than at any point since comparable Commission data started in 1985. The results come ahead of official data on Friday that are expected to show eurozone annual inflation falling further into negative territory.
They suggested that while the eurozone is recovering from continental Europe’s worst post-war recession, there is still a lot of slack in the economy, which means inflationary pressures have disappeared. Headline eurozone inflation has fallen below zero largely because of steep falls in energy prices, but evidence is mounting that price falls are becoming more widespread.
…
Among consumers, confidence returned to a level not seen since September, before the global economic crisis intensified. Households were more optimistic about their financial situation over the next 12 months than at any time since December 2007.
But some of the increased confidence may have been driven by expectations of lower prices – which would boost spending power. Prior to the economic crisis, the component of the Commission’s survey covering consumers’ expectations about prices in the next 12 months had always been positive. But in April it turned negative for the first time, indicating that a more consumers expected prices to remain stable or fall than were expecting increases. In July, the indicator fell further, to a record low of minus 12.
The risk for the ECB is that negative inflation rates fuel fears of a damaging bout of deflation – a protracted period in which prices fall generally, wreaking significant economic damage. Friday’s eurozone inflation data are expected to show an annual rate of minus 0.4 per cent, or an even faster pace of price falls. However, the ECB expects the annual rate to return to positive territory later this year and economists believe that the rebound in economic activity, even if modest, mean the risk of deflation remains slight.
…
Financial Times
Why lower prices ring policymakers’ alarm bells
By Ralph Atkins in Frankfurt
Published: July 1 2009 03:00 | Last updated: July 1 2009 03:00
Dumb question of the day: Does the sizable drop in US home prices qualify as “deflation,” or do asset price declines fall under a different category?
Given the common understanding of the term “deflation” (prices), heck yes it qualifies! Assets and consumables are bought with the same dollars, after all.
It sure didn’t count during the bubble years when Greenie kept rates at record lows citing absence of inflation. So if RE cant contribute to inflation how can it affect deflation?
I’ve yet to see a good justification for why deflation is a bad thing.
The only reason given is that it hurts those who are deep in debt. I see that as a good thing though - much how punishing my kids when they’re bad is a good thing. Maybe they won’t do that anymore then.
Deflation rewards the savers and the prudent. If that were to catch on, the system would implode.
“The only reason given is that it hurts those who are deep in debt.”
Wouldn’t banks suffer major ‘collateral damage’ if deflation were to take hold? Too bad it already has taken hold on one of the biggest pools of collateral on the planet: the US residential housing stock.
Wouldn’t banks suffer major ‘collateral damage’ if deflation were to take hold?
Yes, but again - I see that as a good thing.
In general - deflation encourages saving. Bad for the banks, good for the general public. I’m not a banker, so…
(That’s exactly why the banks create inflation - it’s good for profits by encouraging people to borrow instead of save; a certain Traffic song comes to mind.)
Good thing this could never happen here in America!
Jul 30, 2009, 7:54 p.m. EST
Japan deflation deepens at record pace in June
By John Letzing
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Japan’s core consumer price index fell 0.2% in June, or 1.7% lower than a year earlier, the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications said Friday. The on-year fall matched economists’ expectations reported by Dow Jones Newswires. In May, the core CPI fell 1.1% on year. Prices for food fell 0.5% from May, the ministry said, while prices for housing were flat and those for fuel, light and water charges dipped 0.9%.
Anyone heard of this? Its fascinating. Reads like a Stephen King short story.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones
Wild! Never heard of them before… Thx for the link!
” However, the ECB expects the annual rate to return to positive territory later this year and economists believe that the rebound in economic activity, even if modest, mean the risk of deflation remains slight.”
I just love all of this unbridled optimism out there spewing from these pseudo economists, pseudo intellectuals, and government officials all the while trying to find a one time fix until next year when their great turnaround is to take place. They already gulped down their dose of hemlock and don’t even know it.
Unbridled optimism, Dow up 150, pump monkeys dancing! Jobs for everyone?
Unemployment Report FAR Weaker Than Claimed
“Initial Claims” were 584,000 today, scream the headlines, and the pumpers all claim this is “better than expected” when looking at continuing claims, which declined slightly to 6.416 million on a 4-week rolling basis.
But those numbers don’t include the people who rolled off the original 13 week unemployment rolls and onto the extended programs (which go out to 52 weeks in many cases), and as such the number is being dramatically underreported.
That’s a problem - see, there are 2,656,879 people in that bin, an increase of 24,518 from the prior week, and worse, 352,482 people rolled off the 13 week program last week!
So the real increase was about 50,000 people, not 24,000 in the current week, because you have to add back in those that have been removed from the count but are still unemployed!
Again: 352,483 people, or well over half of the newly-filed claims, rolled off the original 13 week benefits onto extended benefits. This is where the “decrease” in the 4-week moving average came from. This little machination means that there was not an actual decrease in the 4-week moving average of people on unemployment; to the contrary, those on unemployment increased, not decreased!
“Extended benefits” are people who cannot find work within three months of being laid off, and are being forced onto the expanded benefit programs. Until the moving average change drops to close to zero including extended benefits the labor market is not slowing its rate of contraction!
Worse, we’re going to start losing people off the “extended” benefits soon (next month) which will make it nearly impossible to count the real number of unemployed, and those who drop off extended benefits will have no income whatsoever, which means they won’t be paying taxes - or spending.
The total count of people on both 13 week and extended benefits (raw numbers, not seasonally adjusted) is 8.718 million, another new record.
Don’t believe the “green shoot” callers - this report was horrendous and shows continued dramatic contraction in the workforce and economy.
(from K Denninger)
But those numbers don’t include the people who rolled off the original 13 week unemployment rolls and onto the extended programs (which go out to 52 weeks in many cases), and as such the number is being dramatically underreported.
Note that the 52 weeks above is actually 79 weeks in Massachusetts.
You can get unemployment for a year and a half in MA? Wow.
By the way, my understanding is that basic unemployment benefits last for 26 weeks, not 13.
I’m on unemployment and mine lasts for one year (with a possible extension, but not sure).
79 weeks in Colorado too.
“…pump monkeys dancing!”
Good one cobaltblue! I love it!
Bulk purchases latest condo trend in Florida.
AP Real Estate
Thursday, Jul. 30, 2009
MIAMI They’re lurking, holding bags of cash and eyeing distressed condo markets.
Big-time cash investors are snapping up South Florida condo units in bulk. There have been at least seven purchases of 10 or more condos this year, including four since June, according to county records. Investors are re-selling the units or renting them until the market recovers.
Last month, Tom D. Sullivan and Jorge Arevalo shelled out $14.6 million for 51 oceanfront, condo-hotel units in the One Bal Harbour complex from developer WCI Communities, which is reorganizing under bankruptcy protection.
“It didn’t take 10 years of research to see it was a pretty good deal,” said Sullivan, founder of Lumber Liquidators Inc.
That’s because existing condo prices in Miami have fallen by half since the peak in December 2006, and investors think they see the bottom. There’s also plenty of selection. Miami has a two-year supply of condos for sale, at the current demand, according to the local Realtors associations.
Since 2003, nearly 23,000 units have been built or are still under construction in greater downtown Miami, said Peter Zalewski, a principal with Condo Vultures Realty. In June, developers were still holding about 9,400 units, he said. Banks own about 5,000 local homes and condos.
Desperate to get them off their books, banks and developers are auctioning off Miami condos by the dozen. That’s where investor Ed Pascoe, an antiques dealer, snapped up 56 units for $4 million in a 135-unit building in February.
This month, he started offering the units for rent at $1,000 a month, or for sale from $99,000 to $299,000, according to his broker Brian Carter. Pascoe declined to comment.
By paying monthly fees on time, these new owners can be a financial relief for homeowners associations struggling to cover the costs of maintenance and insurance in a building dotted with empty units. While lenders and developers are obligated by law to keep up with association fees, it doesn’t always happen.
The cash for some of these deals is coming from groups of private investors. One multibillion-dollar firm, Contrarian Capital Management LLC in Greenwich, Conn., is looking closely at bulk purchases in Florida, according to Gil Tenzer, the firm’s real estate portfolio manager.
He’s not the only one.
“We’re getting much closer on several deals,” said Jay Massirman, managing partner of Rivergate Residential, a Miami-based real estate investment firm. Massirman said he has researched dozens of bulk purchases for investors.
Unlike the condo investors of the boom years, who borrowed recklessly with the intention on flipping the units within months, more investors today are using cash and thinking strategically.
“They have the money and the knowledge and wherewithal to hold them until the market turns around,” said Jennifer Drake, a real estate attorney with Becker & Poliakoff.
All aid? That’s a f—ing laugh! How the hell would the general public know if they repaid one thin dime? Can’t be known, it is what we’re told it is.
Fannie, Freddie Won’t Repay All Aid, Lockhart Says
July 30 (Bloomberg) — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the largest U.S. mortgage-finance companies, won’t be able to repay all of the $84.9 billion in federal aid they have received since being seized by the government last year, their regulator said.
“Some assets and senior preferreds will have to be left behind as they come out of conservatorship, and that means some of those losses will never be repaid,” Federal Housing Finance Agency Director James Lockhart said at a speech in Washington today. “Their book is so large, it’s hard for me to see that they will be able to repay all of that.”
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which have posted $150 billion in losses going back to the third quarter of 2007, will continue losing money “for at least the next year or so,” and won’t return to “strong profits” for another two to three years, Lockhart told reporters after his speech.
“It’s hard to predict at this point,” Lockhart said.
He said Washington-based Fannie Mae and McLean, Virginia- based Freddie Mac have asked the Treasury “from time to time” to reduce their annual dividend obligations to the government, currently at 10 percent.
There are sure lots of numbers flying fast and furious these days. I’d have sworn I saw a figure in yesterday’s bits bucket that suggested the GSEs were getting “aid” that numbered in the trillions of dollars, but I am too lazy to check…
There was an article that came out last week in the Washington Post (?) that claimed they’d reach $200 billion in assistance each by the end of the year.
Feeling less lazy now that the work day is over. Here is the reference:
Jul 21, 2009, 12:02 p.m. EST
Carping over TARP
Inspector general says potential bailout costs could reach $23.7 trillion
By Ronald D. Orol, MarketWatch
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Lawmakers on Tuesday latched on concerns raised by a bank bailout overseer about a lack of transparency for a package of government programs that could carry a potential cost totaling nearly $24 trillion.
At issue is a report put out by Neil Barofsky, the inspector general for one of the Treasury’s rescue programs, the so-called Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.
The report calculates that taxpayer support to the financial system is currently at $3 trillion — while potential support could be as high as $23.7 trillion. Read the report.
The costs include $6.8 trillion in government assistance offered by the Federal Reserve, along with $7.2 trillion in government funding for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other groups and another $2.3 trillion in programs provided by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
…
Hi Sign of times ? Coming home late about 9PM last night and a few weeks ago noticed about 1/2 dozen people camping out under the overhang of 1401 New York Ave, NW. This is an office building just a couple block east of the White House. Have not seen street people camping in this neighboorhood for years. But it’s rare I’m here this late. Maybe charities / social services overwhelmed ? These people were very wretched looking - that is not people who just like to party and won’t work but looked deranged or with other problems.
Spectum, a new high end condo development in Falls Church, VA, (close in suburb) at 444 West Broad Street (Route 7) has started renting condos it can’t sell. Rent to own. (one bedrooms start at $400K) The places and development look nice and are in decent neighborhood - good shopping and dining but the place is not within walking distance to Metro.
These people were very wretched looking … deranged or with other problems. I hope they’re not Taliban.
Or worse… politicians.
$400K for a one bedroom that isn’t walking distance to the Metro? Are they high? You could get one across the street from Grovesnor/Strathmore Metro for less than that and that is 2 stops from downtown Bethesda and no more than 25 minutes to Metro Center.
1,200 R.I. businesses face closure over sales tax.
PROVIDENCE — State tax officials have put more than 1,200 businesses across the state on notice this week that they are out of business unless they pay their overdue sales taxes immediately.
For most, that action came in the form of a personal visit from the state Division of Taxation, ordering business owners to lock their doors at once.
By Wednesday, a line of people had queued up inside the Department of Administration building on Smith Hill, waiting their turn to plead their case to a state revenue agent. Some were angry. Others frustrated.
“I understand the state needs money, but to put pressure on the small guy or the moderate guy that’s struggling, it’s not going to do any good,” said Mike Suriani, who owns an electrical supply company in South Providence.
In Suriani’s case, it may have been a bookkeeping error that landed him in the three-hour line. Suriani says he paid his taxes in full — albeit a little late –– and had copies of the cancelled checks from the state showing he had indeed turned over the sales taxes he collected.
But that didn’t keep taxation officials from appearing at his door Tuesday demanding that he close up shop.
“Yes, the rules state that we have a responsibility to pay our bills every quarter. But when your customers come in and they don’t pay you for a month, and then another month, and another month, businesses have no choice [in] the eyes of the state but to close up and get out,” Suriani said.
State officials say they’ve given businesses with sales-tax permits plenty of notice that they’ve fallen behind in making tax payments.
(We intend to see that these lowlife tax dodging bastards pay, damn it!)
(I added the last line.)
Doesn’t RI have the highest unemployment rate in the nation? I’m glad to see their state government is right on top of things.
Downtown Fort Myers condo has 32 stories, and one lonely tale.
Condo can get spooky for tower’s only family.
Victor Vangelakos lives in a luxury condominium tower on the Caloosahatchee River. He never has to worry about the neighbors making too much noise.There are no neighbors.
Vangelakos, 45, his wife Cathy and their three children are the only residents in the 32-story Oasis I condo on the east edge of downtown Fort Myers.
The 45-year-old Weehawken, N.J., firefighter bought the condo from Miami-based The Related Group for $430,000 and closed on it in November. He planned to make it a vacation getaway and eventually his full-time residence when he retires in four years.
But prices have fallen hard since the real estate bubble burst in early 2006. Only a handful of those who put down deposits on the tower’s units actually closed on the deal. Those who did have swapped their Oasis I units for condos in Oasis II next door.
Vangelakos didn’t, because he was unable to convince his lender to agree to the swap, said Betsy Lu McCoy, vice president and associate corporate counsel for Related.
That leaves the Vangelakos family splitting their time between New Jersey and a creepy, surreal life in Oasis I.
They’re the only ones using a well-appointed clubhouse, but they can’t watch the big plasma TV.
“We haven’t found the remote controls,” Victor said.
Pause for a moment anywhere in the building during the day and the silence is deafening.
At night, Vangelakos said, they often hear people on the grounds or even inside the building itself. It’s not hard to break in one of the many entrances.
Once, late at night, “Somebody banged on our door,” Vanelakos said.
It wouldn’t have been hard to find the person in the otherwise darkened building.
“At night,” he said, “you can see our TV from the street.”
Especially popular for intruders is the swimming pool, Vangelakos said. They heard people there one night “and the next day all our chairs were in the pool.”
His relationship with Related is testy at best. Once, he said, when management turned off his water to fix a leak in a pipe, “we came back 10 days later and the water was off but our TV was on.”
Now, after months of exchanging letters with Related about building maintenance and other issues, Vangelakos said he just wants out.
He hasn’t filed a lawsuit but his attorney, Fort Lauderdale-based John Ewing, said Related hasn’t delivered the marina, pro shop and fancy restaurants that were promised.
“They have the ability to buy him out,” Ewing said. “They can resolve this in a fair way.”
McCoy said it’s not that simple.
“His concerns have not fallen on deaf ears,” she said, but it isn’t Related’s fault he hasn’t been able to persuade his lender, JP Morgan Chase Bank, to transfer the mortgage to a unit in Oasis II.
“What he paid went to our lender, it didn’t come to us,” McCoy noted, so Related would have to pay off the mortgage before it got the unit back.
Besides, she said, the situation is the result of market forces beyond anyone’s control.
“We did not foresee, nor did anyone else foresee, the collapse of the real estate business and the concurrent collapse of the lending industry,” McCoy said. “They’re caught and we’re caught.”
“We did not foresee, nor did anyone else foresee, the collapse of the real estate business and the concurrent collapse of the lending industry,” McCoy said. “They’re caught and we’re caught.”
What a punchline!
“We did not foresee, nor did anyone else foresee, the collapse of the real estate business and the concurrent collapse of the lending industry,”
LOL
Who here wants to be the first to call BS on that one.
The comments are great. His wife was just arrested for embezzling.
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2008/06/court_official_charged_with_po.html
LOL! Sweet!
I guess it will be a while before Cathy gets to enjoy their scary home away from home.
“The 45-year-old Weehawken, N.J., firefighter bought the condo from Miami-based The Related Group for $430,000 and closed on it in November. He planned to make it a vacation getaway and eventually his full-time residence when he retires in four years.”
Something is rotten when a 45 yr. old firefighter can purchase a $430K vacation getaway in addition to his prime residence and whatever else.
He works for the gubmint doesn’t he? He can afford it.
Please make note of his home state.
An he will eventually take his NJ pension dollars out of state. That’s a real bummer for those states/cities with high pension obligations - the very existence of such pensions almost assures the very people who collect them won’t stick around to spend them locally.
CA cops have been taking their bloated pensions and been moving here to Idaho for a long time now.
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Bonuses paid to executives at nine banks that received U.S. government bailout money in 2008 were greater than net income at some of the banks, the office of New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said on Thursday.
Cuomo, in a report on months of investigation into compensation paid by the banks, said employee pay “has become unmoored from the banks’ financial performance.”
That’s putting it mildly. What a great deal for tax payers and stock holders.
NO RHYME OR REASON:
The ‘Heads I Win, Tails You Lose’ Bank Bonus Culture
Andrew M. Cuomo
State Attorney General
New York
Why Pima County, Arizona, property taxes are on the rise
Why whould I pay for cash-for-cllunkers? I mean, does it really benefit me the taxpayer when joe consumate-consumer trades his rusted crown-victoria for a new Ford focus? Or does it help the car manufacturer? The stealership? What if I don’t want a new car? What if I ride a bike? A big-wheel?
What if you ride a bike? Well, you’re just un-American!
Supposedly beneficial to the environment, but think of all the natural resources consumed to produce and ship that new car.. and to scrap the old “clunker”.
Cuomo says banks paid more out in bonus money then they earned
Goldman earned $2.3 billion, paid out $4.8 billion in bonuses and received $10 billion in TARP funding, the report said.
Morgan Stanley earned $1.7 billion, paid $4.475 billion in bonuses and received $10 billion in TARP funding, while JP Morgan Chase earned $5.6 billion, paid $8.69 billion in bonuses and received $25 billion in TARP funding.
Cuomo said his office studied historical financial filings and found that at many banks compensation increased in the 2003-2006 bull market years, but stayed at those levels as the mortgage crisis and recession hit.
“Thus, when the banks did well, their employees were paid well. When the banks did poorly, their employees were paid well. And when the banks did very poorly, they were bailed out by taxpayers and their employees were still paid well.
“Bonuses and overall compensation did not vary significantly as profits diminished.”
While Citigroup Inc (C.N) and Merrill Lynch, bought by Bank of America Corp (BAC.N), lost more than $27 billion each, Citigroup paid $5.33 billion in bonuses and Merrill paid $3.6 billion, the report said. TARP paid the two banks a combined $55 billion.
A spokesman for Bank of America said bonuses were paid to 200,000 bank employees and 30,000 Merrill legacy employees.
This is exactly why they should have been allowed to fail. Every prop should be pulled from these banks and see if they can afford those bonuses on their own two legs.
“Let them eat cake.”
Link to Cuomo report
This is truly a fantastic report. Here is an excerpt:
“…when the banks did well, their employees were paid well. When the banks did poorly, their employees were paid well. And when the banks did very poorly, they were bailed out by taxpayers and their employees were still paid well. Bonuses and overall compensation did not vary significantly as profits diminished.”
Tentative conclusion: It pays well to work for a bank, no matter what happens!
More. Hank’s friends sure owe him big time!
An analysis of the 2008 bonuses and earnings at the original nine TARP recipients illustrates the point. Two firms, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch suffered massive losses of more than $27 billion at each firm. Nevertheless, Citigroup paid out $5.33 billion in bonuses and Merrill paid $3.6 billion in bonuses. Together, they lost $54 billion, paid out nearly $9 billion in bonuses and then received TARP bailouts totaling $55 billion.
“TARP paid the two banks a combined $55 billion.
A spokesman for Bank of America said bonuses were paid to 200,000 bank employees and 30,000 Merrill legacy employees.”
I thought the TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) funds were to buy up troubled assets off bank balance sheets so that the banks could start lending again. Is it unfair or incorrect to say that over $55 billion in taxpayer funds were illegally misappropriated to pay bonuses?
Tentative conclusions:
- Those who steal by the $100s are highly likely to wind up in jail.
- Those who steal by the $100 bns are likely to wind up much wealthier than those who do not.
- The US has somehow recently developed a striking resemblance to a third world country.
Remember the Good Bank /Bank Bank idea from Paulson ,solve all the problem by buying the Bad Bank toxic assets ,(which of course were suppose to be worth a lot of money in the future ). Instead the banks got money without requirements and they continued
with their thieving ways and didn’t make loans to improve the credit markets .
“Episodes of “contagious fear” are not uncommon and should not be treated lightly, medical experts say.
Fort Worth psychologist Hap Klinefelter said the power of suggestion can manifest itself in medical symptoms.
“Emotions are real contagious,” he said. “A lot of times people will reason from their feelings. It introduces the power of suggestion and it makes them real susceptible to misinterpreting physical cues or it will distort their perceptions.”
I now understand the housing bubble debacle. It was “contagious greed” leading the way and ‘Contagious fear’ by the discriminating buyer who refused to buy that caused the collapse.
I got popped this morning for no front plate by LAPD motor cop on my way to work. Surprise, surprise, my license expired 2 weeks ago so I also got dinged for a misdemeanor driving with an expired license.
I didn’t say anything about the officers momma.
What? All you had to do was say, “I’ll show my ID to yo mama” and you may be invited to have a beer(of your choice) with Barry in the backyard at the white house.
I didn’t say anything about the officers momma.
You missed out on a White House kegger by just THAT MUCH!
Shoot!
If only you actually had a front plate that the cop didn’t see AND he misread the expiration date on your license.
Oh, and it wouldn’t hurt if you were a different race than the ossifer and, like, famous or something.
” Surprise, surprise, my license expired 2 weeks ago so I also got dinged for a misdemeanor driving with an expired license.
I didn’t say anything about the officers momma.”
LOL. Boy this was your unlucky day, a cop who could read!
Disney Profit Falls 26% on Drop in Ad Sales, Theme-Park Slump
July 30 (Bloomberg) — Walt Disney Co., the world’s biggest media company, said third-quarter profit fell 26 percent as the recession cut advertising sales and theme-park revenue.
Net income dropped to $954 million, or 51 cents a share, from $1.28 billion, or 66 cents, a year earlier, Burbank, California-based Disney said today in a statement distributed by Business Wire. Sales fell to $8.6 billion in the quarter ended June 27, missing the $8.81 billion average of 17 analysts’ estimates compiled by Bloomberg.
The U.S. Postal Service is on track for a record $7 billion deficit this year. That’s more than double last year’s loss. The Postal Service is a government run enterprise. So is Amtrack. It loses money, too.
Yet millions of Americans pin their hopes on government business expertise to manage medical insurance and services without plunging these programs into a more calamitous condition than they are already. Geesh!
Ian Mathias writes: “The Postal Service is facing a perfect storm of business risk: The business is already loaded up with debt. Minimum wage and benefit costs are rising while revenues are plummeting. For example, they are expected to handle at least 27 million fewer pieces of mail this year than in 2008. Is there any business in America that isn’t looking to cut shipping costs? (There’s this new technology we’ve heard about it, it’s called “e-mail.”)
That volume decline has to be coming from their better paying customers - that is individuals who buy stamps and pay full rate.
Because bulk rate junk mail (much of it from TARP banks) is coming through like never before. The USPS is just another way the operations of the debt pushers is subsidized.
The U.S. Postal Service is on track for a record $7 billion deficit this year. That’s more than double last year’s loss. The Postal Service is a government run enterprise. So is Amtrack. It loses money, too.
How much does the DOD burn through each year? Last I heard, they have billions and billions of dollars “lost” each year that they simply can’t or won’t account for. And yet we overlook their incredible financial gaffes, lost money that could fund entire other agencies.
On the other hand, government enterprises are not supposed to run for-profit. They are supposed to provide services that the private sector can’t or won’t deliver at the same cost-basis. National mail (still a much greater volume than private competitors handle, at a much lower cost), mass transit, and national defense all fit that bill.
National mail (still a much greater volume than private competitors handle, at a much lower cost), mass transit, and national defense all fit that bill.
Of course, the “private competitors” are at a slight disadvantage by not having eminent domain, unlimited taxing power, unlimited regulatory authority over other players, and Federal Marshalls to shut down competitors.
Good thinkin’ — let’s give corporations the power of eminent domain, unlimited taxing power, unlimited regulatory authority over other players, and the ability to shut down competitors.
Are we in nirvana yet?
“unlimited taxing power”
Nah, that would be much better suited to the fed and state gubmints. Why I am sure my fate is in much better hands with the D.C. brain trust, just listen to Maxine Waters she knows what’s best for you! “We’ll nationalize all of your businesses” OOPs.
Look how well it’s worked so far. Decade after decade.
Lord knows we are on the right track, the masses are just plain stupid(that includes you&me)and can’t fend for themselves, we gots to have our nanny running every aspect. Thank you massa. I’ll be good.
“On the other hand, government enterprises are not supposed to run for-profit.”
Really? Enlighten me, where is that rule written? Or is that just a given?
Why is almighty profit your benchmark of success? That sounds a little Goldmanesque to me …
Please, enlighten.
And we can tell everyone to F..off we dont answer emails…..
and we don’t publish our phone or fax number…so F off we will contact you if we think you are worthy of sitting in our chairs.
———————-
(There’s this new technology we’ve heard about it, it’s called “e-mail.”)
wmbz are you advocating that a “private” corporate subsidy of Taco Bell / Pepsi with a with an ex-taxi cab Pakistani driver… deliver the US mail or that new Cabella’s box of ammunition?
I have an FFL. It’s pretty amazing the stuff I get delivered via USPS, UPS, and FedEx.
Yet millions of Americans pin their hopes on government business expertise to manage medical insurance and services without plunging these programs into a more calamitous condition than they are already.
Which legislation is it that proposes to create a complete, autonomous healthcare system with hospitals, medical staff, ambulances and medical equipment analogous to the USPS’s offices and warehouses, clerks, trucks and sorting equipment?
I thought the argument so far was whether or not the government should provide insurance (admittedly with administrative costs) and whether or not it would deprive pharmaceutical companies of a fair profit.
Chuck Butler at The Daily Pfennig knows his stuff. “Our economy is dependent on the Chinese continuing to buy our debt. Unfortunately Treasury Secretary Geithner’s boss isn’t making his job any easier, as the deficits continue to rise. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates the annual deficits under the administration’s spending plans will never drop below $633 billion over the next decade. And it forecasts an additional $9.1 trillion added to the debt held by the public - the amount that Geithner has to finance with bond sales.
Publicly traded US debt - which excludes deficits the government owes to itself in Social Security and other trust funds - stood at 41 percent of the total economy in 2008. It is projected to climb to 82 percent of the entire economy by 2019.”
Yikes! Obama’s spending plans feature deficits of more than $633 billion annually all the way out to 2019? No one has a clue, of course, about what the monetary landscape will look like in 2019. At its present rate of descent the dollar will be history by then.
I for one have NOT read the national sickness plan, have you?
It’s roughly 2000 pages at this point.I don’t know any congress folks that have either. Some people have, here are a few highlights(EDITED). Don’t believe it? Then please ask for a copy and read it, if it matters to you. Are we in nirvana yet? For those of you that don’t care and think this will screw the “money” machine and stick it to the rich… Enjoy!
• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID HealthCare.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
WOW. CAN THIS REALLY HAPPEN?
Looks like they need to go back to the drawing board . Why don’t they just have a basic health care offering and than offer a supplement
plan that gives greater benefits for people who want to pay for it .
Sounds good to me….
Wrap it up….. I’ll take it.
I am not the only one who believes Cuomo’s bonus report suggests Megabank, Inc may have committed fraud in a big way by paying massive bonuses out of TARP funds. I just heard Peter Morici suggest the same on the BBC evening financial news report.
Cash for clunkers dead already! Say it ain’t so!
Just when I was thinking of buying a clunker in order to flip it!!
LOL, Prof!
Major news outlets are reporting that cash-for-clunkers has indeed already run out of money.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/business/31clunkers.html?_r=1&hp
New-car shoppers appear to have already snapped up all the $1 billion that Congress appropriated for a “cash for clunkers” program, leading the Transportation Department to tell auto dealers Thursday night to stop offering the rebates….
In a statement issued Thursday evening, Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary said: “We are working tonight to assess the situation facing what is obviously an incredibly popular program. Auto dealers and consumers should have confidence that all valid CARS transactions that have taken place to date will be honored.”
Financial Times
Tarp banks award billions in bonuses
By Greg Farrell in New York
Published: July 30 2009 18:18 | Last updated: July 30 2009 21:46
Citigroup and Merrill Lynch, which lost $55bn in 2008, between them paid 1,400 employees bonuses of $1m or more each, according to a New York state report, released on Thursday, on banks propped up with taxpayer funds.
The study, compiled by Andrew Cuomo, New York attorney-general, showed that JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs, which both finished in the black last year, paid the most million-dollar bonuses - 1,626 and 953, respectively.
However, the totals at a profitable bank such as Goldman were nearly matched by two of the year’s biggest losers on Wall Street. Citi, which suffered a $27.7bn loss, paid million-dollar bonuses to 738 employees. Merrill, which lost $27.6bn, paid 696 bonuses of $1m or more.
“There is no clear rhyme or reason to the way banks compensate and reward their employees,” Mr Cuomo said. “Compensation for bank employees has become unmoored from the banks’ financial performance.”
Big Banks Paid Billions in Bonuses Amid Wall St. Crisis
By LOUISE STORY and ERIC DASH
Published: July 30, 2009
Thousands of top traders and bankers on Wall Street were awarded huge bonuses and pay packages last year, even as their employers were battered by the financial crisis.
Nine of the financial firms that were among the largest recipients of federal bailout money paid about 5,000 of their traders and bankers bonuses of more than $1 million apiece for 2008, according to a report released Thursday by Andrew M. Cuomo, the New York attorney general.
At Goldman Sachs, for example, bonuses of more than $1 million went to 953 traders and bankers, and Morgan Stanley awarded seven-figure bonuses to 428 employees. Even at weaker banks like Citigroup and Bank of America, million-dollar awards were distributed to hundreds of workers.
The report is certain to intensify the growing debate over how, and how much, Wall Street bankers should be paid.
…
F–k the money. I propose they should be paid in jail time. But given the number of banksters who were rewarded with TARP-funded bonuses for their roles in causing the greatest US banking crisis since the 1930s, perhaps their industry is TOO BIG TO JAIL.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!
Cuomo reveals huge bonuses on Wall Street
Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:56pm EDT
Thursday, July 30, 2009, 4:06pm
New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has released findings from his investigation of bonuses paid at the country’s largest banks last year.
The details, reported at The Wall Street Journal, might make you blush (or turn green with envy).
At Charlotte’s Bank of America, 172 people received bonuses last year in excess of $1 million, according to Cuomo’s report. Twenty-eight individuals scored bonuses above $3 million in 2008. The top four bonus recipients combined to receive $64 million. The bank spent about $3.3 billion on bonuses in total.
An interesting point: BofA actually paid fewer dollars in bonuses per employee ($13,580) than all the other major banks except Wells Fargo. The leader in that category was Goldman Sachs, which paid $160,000 in bonuses for every employee.
J.P. Morgan Chase wins the award for most cash spent on bonuses, writing checks in excess of $8.6 billion for bonus payments. More than 200 employees at J.P. Morgan Chase received bonuses greater than $3 million.
The argument surrounding all of this — like almost everything else in banking these days — is whether or not it’s appropriate to pay these kinds of bonuses when these banks are receiving billions of dollars in taxpayer loans through the Troubled Asset Relief Program.
…
Why isn’t anyone asking whether some of these scum bags belong in jail? Isn’t that a reasonable question to ask?
Los Angeles Times
Bankers’ bonuses as a symptom of a widespread disease
6:50 PM, July 30, 2009
How to earn a million-dollar bonus on Wall Street: Don’t worry about your performance — just have your firm’s compensation committee believe that you could easily get that much at a rival company.
New York Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo’s detailed disclosure on Thursday of 2008 bonus payments at major banks attacks what Cuomo calls a culture of “all upside.”
In a report — “The ‘Heads I Win, Tails You Lose’ Bank Bonus Culture” — Cuomo acknowledges that bonuses are an integral part of Wall Street’s compensation structure. His problem isn’t with bonuses per se, he says, but with rewards that he believes have “become unmoored from the banks’ financial performance.”
That has happened, Cuomo says, in part because “large payouts became a cultural expectation at banks and a source of competition among the firms.”
Cuomoa He cites Merrill Lynch & Co. as an example: “As Merrill Lynch’s performance plummeted [in 2007 and 2008], Merrill severed the tie between paying based on performance and set its bonus pool based on what it expected its competitors would do,” Cuomo asserts in his report.
Merrill paid $3.6 billion in bonuses to employees for 2008, even as the firm lost $27.6 billion. Nearly 700 Merrill employees got bonuses of at least $1 million. Twenty individuals got $8 million or more.
Even assuming the bonus recipients worked in Merrill divisions that were profitable, the huge payouts raise the basic question of “how much is enough?” This is, after all, shareholders’ money we’re talking about.
Of course, that question has been asked about American executives’ escalating pay across many other industries over the last two decades. Egged on by compensation consulting firms hired to make sure pay is adequate to attract top talent, many companies have engaged in a never-ending game of oneupsmanship in setting executive salaries, bonuses and perks.
How to stop the spiral? Cuomo says Wall Street compensation packages “should be designed to promote long-term, sustainable growth and actual increases in value.” The key there is “long-term” — i.e., a bonus system that doesn’t encourage traders, for example, to shoot for the moon in a single year, with all the attendant risks.
This is bullsh!t. The key to stopping the spiral is to put executives who misappropriated TARP (Toxic Asset Relief Funds) to pay bonuses into jail. And let the banks that threw away money on loans to debtbeats go bankrupt, with no bonus pay for the executives whose decisions supported the abolition of prudent lending standards.
That will stop the out-of-control spiral dead in its tracks.
They might just be paying these guys so they won’t talk about how corrupt the whole system was that brought down the entire real estate ponzi-scheme along with the rigged casino games . In truth these guys should be in jail because its hard to believe that you can do
this much damage to the financial system and of been on the up and up . At the very least they passed on bad securities to investors and made casino bets without money to back it and breached their duty on quality control on loan securities .
I thought the concept of bonuses was to pay a share of a firm’s profits to the managers responsible for the successful operation, not to hand ill-gotten tax dollars in excess of the company’s earnings over to thieves. But I stand corrected.
Globe and Mail Update Last updated on Thursday, Jul. 30, 2009 07:46PM EDT
The report released Thursday by New York State Attorney-General Andrew Cuomo offers the most extensive look yet at the extent of enormous paydays on Wall Street during a period when investors saw their savings melt away and the U.S. economy tumble into recession. Among the report’s highlights:
** Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan paid out a total of $18-billion (U.S.) in bonuses in 2008 while receiving a combined total of $45-billion in taxpayer dollars through TARP. Together, the three firms earned $9.6-billion last year.
*** Goldman Sachs paid 953 bankers and traders bonuses worth at least $1-million last year, including 212 employees who received more than $3-million. It paid a total of $4.8-billion in bonuses in 2008, more than twice its $2.3-billion profit.
*** At Citigroup, 738 bankers and traders took home bonuses of $1-million or more in 2008 even as the bank posted a $27.7-billion loss. In all, Citigroup paid $5.33-billion in bonuses; it received $45-billion in government bailout funds.
*** JPMorgan Chase paid 1,626 employees bonuses of more than $1-million in 2008 and received $25-billion in federal assistance. The bank earned $5.6-billion while its bonuses totalled $8.69-billion.
*** Bank of America Corp., which also received $45-billion in TARP money, paid $3.3-billion in bonuses, with 172 employees receiving at least $1-million.
ANDREW CUOMO FOR CIC!!! WE NEED SOMEONE WITH THE COJONES TO TAKE ON THE BANKSTERS, BUT NOT TO GET INTO BED WITH THEM.
The Globe and Mail
In Wall Street’s meltdown, 5,000 made a million
New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo
New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo Chris Hondros/Getty Images
Cuomo report slams banks over bonuses paid despite massive losses and billions in bailout money
Barrie McKenna
Washington — Globe and Mail Update Last updated on Thursday, Jul. 30, 2009 07:50PM EDT
Even in the darkest days of the financial crisis, Wall Street continued to dole out multimillion-dollar bonuses in what New York Attorney-General Andrew Cuomo calls a “heads I win, tails you lose” pay culture.
Nearly 5,000 Wall Street bankers pocketed bonuses of at least $1-million (U.S.) last year – many of them while their financial institutions were receiving massive taxpayer bailouts, Mr. Cuomo says in a report released Thursday that is reigniting populist anger over executive pay.
The past three years offer “a virtual laboratory” that belies the notion that pay in the financial services industry is tied to performance, Mr. Cuomo said in a 22-page analysis of compensation at the country’s major financial institutions.
Pay, the report concluded, has become completely “unmoored” from financial results.
“When the banks did well, their employees were paid well. When the banks did poorly, their employees were paid well.
“And when the banks did very poorly, they were bailed out by taxpayers and their employees were still paid well,” Mr. Cuomo said.
The report is part of an ongoing series of investigations into the causes of last year’s economic downturn.
…
Doesn’t Congress/Senate have any responsibility in giving Hank Paulson a blank check with immunity ,while making no real
requirements on Paulson to make requirements on these
Banks and Investment houses .
It’s hard for me to believe that any governing body would just hand over taxpayer money to Paulson ,especially with the funny way he was acting . The elected Politicians are complaining after the fact ,but ,what did you think was going to happen when they listened to the lobbyist .
I would of much rather seen them sued for their crooked business
practices and rigged Casino games than watched them given billions and billions of dollars .
Wall Street bonuses under fire
Bailed-out banks pay billions of dollars in bonuses to thousands of executives, New York’s attorney-general reports
* Phillip Inman
* guardian dot co dot uk, Friday 31 July 2009 00.31 BST
* Article history
Sunrise on Wall Street
People walk to work on Wall Street, where million-dollar bonuses are in the spotlight. Photograph: Mark Lennihan/AP
Citigroup, one of the biggest recipients of US government bailout money, gave employees $5.3bn (£3.2bn) in bonuses for 2008, with 738 staff getting more than $1m each, an investigation into the bonus culture on Wall Street has found.
The bank paid the bonuses despite losing more than $18bn in 2008 and more than $35bn since the start of the financial crisis, according to a study by Andrew Cuomo, New York’s attorney-general.
Goldman Sachs, which reported earnings of $2.3bn, paid out $4.8bn in bonuses while receiving $10bn in rescue funding from the US government. Rival investment bank Morgan Stanley earned $1.7bn, but paid $4.5bn in bonuses. It also received $10bn in rescue funding. The findings were expected to fuel fierce debate in the US and add support to the government’s clampdown on bonuses.
Barack Obama’s administration has targeted the bonus culture on Wall Street with the appointment of <a href=”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Feinberg” title=”Kenneth Feinberg “>Kenneth Feinberg to oversee compensation given to the highest paid employees at banks and other firms that received the largest government bailouts.
…
Most MSM financial journalists seem untroubled by the banksters’ ill-gotten gains. I personally would not commit a crime to earn $1 million. Can the same be said about these bonus-larded pig men?
Wall Street Journal
* July 30, 2009, 1:14 PM ET
Wall Street Bonuses: What Are Your Chances of Being a Millionaire?
By Dennis K. Berman
Being a millionaire ain’t what it used to be. But most Americans–median household income $50,000–would still relish the opportunity.
The Wall Street bonus numbers released today by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo show that the nine financial institutions that received Trouble Asset Relief Program rescue money counted at least 4,793 people receiving more than $1 million in bonus payments.
The companies employed 1,279,167 people overall, which means that any one employee’s likelihood of being a millionaire was at least 0.37%, or roughly one millionaire for every 270 bank employees. That still significantly understates the total number of millionaires because base compensation isn’t counted in the numbers. And it isn’t really the purest reflection of “Wall Street”–or what remains of it–because it includes tens of thousands of tellers, clerks and other back-office people who support the retail banking operations.
…
Of course, you knew banking was lucrative. But now you have a rough sense of just what the odds are: Even in Wall Street’s worst year, you are nearly four times as likely to take home a million bucks–in bonus alone–than the general population.
I despise scum MSM financial journalists who offer apologies for unscrupulous banksters.
Forbes dot com
Wall Street
Cuomo And The Bonus Crybabies
Liz Moyer, 07.30.09, 04:34 PM EDT
Populist outcry over Wall Street compensation rings false.
Once again, eight-digit bonuses paid out last year to top earners on Wall Street are raising questions about whether the banks at the center of the financial crisis have any sense of perspective.
The same question could be put to the politicians.
This time it is New York State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo ringing the populist alarm bell. In a report released Thursday, Cuomo criticizes the top U.S. banks for paying boom-time bonuses in an era of economic peril.
…
Jul 30, 2009, 3:38 p.m. EST
Bank pay ‘unmoored’ from performance, Cuomo says
New York attorney general slams compensation at Citigroup, Merrill, rivals
By Alistair Barr, MarketWatch
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Bank compensation has become “unmoored” from performance and the system should be changed, the New York Attorney General’s office concluded Thursday after a nine-month investigation of the industry’s pay practices.
Attorney General Andrew Cuomo’s office analyzed 2008 bonuses and earnings at the nine financial institutions that were the first to receive government money from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.
…
Wall Street Journal
* JULY 31, 2009
Bank Bonus Tab: $33 Billion
Nine Lenders That Got U.S. Aid Paid at Least $1 Million Each to 5,000 Employees
BY SUSANNE CRAIG AND DEBORAH SOLOMON
Nine banks that received government aid money paid out bonuses of nearly $33 billion last year — including more than $1 million apiece to nearly 5,000 employees — despite huge losses that plunged the U.S. into economic turmoil.
The data, released Thursday by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, provide a rare window into the pay culture of Wall Street, where top employees typically make 90% or more of their compensation in year-end bonuses.
…
Barn door left open
Horses have all run away
Hurry, shut the door.
Congress wants say on Wall Street pay
By ANNE FLAHERTY (AP) – 19 minutes ago
WASHINGTON — Congress wants to give the government a direct role in deciding how much executives on Wall Street are paid, after the nation’s biggest banks accepted billions in taxpayer money and still managed to distribute $1 million bonuses to thousands of employees.
The House was expected to pass legislation Friday by Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, that would ban “incentive-based” pay that could threaten the economy or viability of the institution.
The bill, which would give regulators nine months to hash out the details, would give the government unprecedented say in how private corporations reward brokers and traders.
Democrats said excessive salaries and bonuses risk harming the broader economy.
“The problem with executive compensation is essentially, from the systemic standpoint, that it gives perverse incentives,” said Frank, D-Mass.
Without penalties for bad bets, the system means “heads you win, tails you break even,” he said.
…
U.S. Limits on Bank Pay, Bonuses Face Senate, Obama Skepticism
By Ian Katz and Jesse Westbrook
July 31 (Bloomberg) — Restrictions on financial industry bonuses heading to a vote in the U.S. House may be rejected by the Senate and the Obama administration, which are reluctant to increase government’s role in deciding compensation.
The House, emboldened by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo’s report yesterday that showed nine banks getting U.S. aid paid $32.6 billion in bonuses last year, will probably pass a bill requiring regulators to ban pay practices that encourage “inappropriate risks.” A panel in the House, where Democrats hold a 256-178 advantage, approved it along party lines July 28.
The bill must pass the Senate and be signed by President Barack Obama to become law. White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, who hadn’t read Cuomo’s report, said yesterday the administration is concerned the measure may give regulators too much say on incentive pay. Michael Oxley, former chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said senators are more likely to back the say-on-pay measure that gives investors a non-binding vote on compensation.
“It is difficult for me to believe that the Senate would be particularly interested in passing that version, despite the report,” Oxley, co-author of the Sarbanes-Oxley corporate governance law, said in an interview. “I don’t think it’s going to influence the Senate.”
…
‘Tread Lightly’
“We should tread very lightly,” said Senator Mark Warner, a Virginia Democrat, speaking before Cuomo’s report was released. Banks might avoid congressionally mandated pay restrictions if they can set the “right standards” and then be willing to engage in self-policing, he said.
…
American banks are well known for their outstanding expertise in self policing.
Sky News
Anger Grows Over Bonuses At Bailout Banks
1:48pm UK, Friday July 31, 2009
Bonuses paid to executives at nine bailed out banks in the US were greater than the net income at some of the institutions.
A report by the office of New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo said employee pay “has become unmoored from the banks’ financial performance”.
The banks were given £75bn last October by the American government to help them survive the financial crisis.
Yet at least 4,793 bankers and traders received more than $1m in bonus payments, the report said.
Mr Cuomo had pressed the banks for details on billions of dollars paid to executives.
“There is no clear rhyme or reason to the way banks compensate and reward their employees,” said the report.
Bonuses for Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan Chase staff were “substantially greater” than the banks’ net income.
…
The Hindu
Business
What recession? Nine U.S. banks pay $32.6b bonus
New York (PTI): They survived the financial turmoil with taxpayers’ money, still nine leading U.S. banks shelled out more than $32 billion in bonus to their employees last year, with crisis-ridden Citigroup alone paying $5.3 billion.
Detailing the bonus payments made by the TARP-funded financial institutions in 2008, the latest report from the Office of the New York Attorney General has said that there “is no clear rhyme or reason to the way banks compensate and reward their employees.”
The U.S. government had pumped in billions of dollars into the banks through the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) to help them tide over the worst financial crisis in decades.
The nine banks together paid $32.6 billion in bonus while they received $175 billion worth funds from the U.S.
The ‘Bank Bonus Report’ by Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo said that even though Citigroup and Merrill Lynch incurred massive losses in 2008, together they paid nearly $9 billion in bonus to the employees.
The Citigroup, led by Indian-origin Vikram Pandit, gave away bonus worth $5.3 billion while Merrill Lynch shelled out $3.6 billion.
Others which paid huge bonus were JPMorgan Chase ($8.69 billion), Goldman Sachs ($4.8 billion), Morgan Stanley ($4.5 billion), Bank of America ($3.3 billion), Wells Fargo ($977.5 million), Bank of New York Mellon ($945 million) and State Street Corp ($469 million).
…
BBC News
‘No rhyme or reason’ for bank pay
Compensation for bank employees has become ‘unmoored’
Wall Street banks that were bailed out by the government gave executives bonuses regardless of performance, it has been suggested in a report.
The report by New York Attorney Andrew Cuomo’s office said there was “no clear rhyme or reason” for pay and it had been disconnected from performance.
Controversially, Congress is seeking to give government a direct say in what bank bosses are compensated.
Top US banks paid out huge bonuses despite gaining taxpayer bail-outs.
“Compensation for bank employees has become unmoored from the banks’ financial performance” said the report.
The report - prepared over nine months - argues that some banks paid out larger bonuses than their profits, while simultaneously taking exceptional state emergency funds.
…
Jul. 30 2009 - 10:01 am
The Best Goldman Apology Yet
“So you can see why Goldman alums sometimes don’t do very impressively once they leave Goldman. They find themselves in positions where no one questions their premises and it’s hard to get good feedback and pushback. (This is why Paulson employed telephone banks of analysts to call Wall Street to solicit opinions.) Outside of the Goldman womb of debate and ideas, bankers and traders lack perspective. You might say that no Goldman is an island.”
And the winner of this month’s Most Retarded Horsesh!t Written In Defense of Goldman Sachs award goes to… Heidi Moore at Big Money! Come on down, Heidi!
This stuff is just getting funnier and funnier. Now that both Michael Lewis and Joe Hagan at New York have piled on and hammered the “magical” Wall Street bank’s reputation, the tearful, wounded apologies on the bank’s behalf are trickling in with some more urgency, especially now that, as Moore puts it, the bank faces the specter of “disastrously populist” hearings in the Senate for (and Moore left out this part) selling crap mortgages while shorting them at the same time.
This latest effort by Moore over at the Slate-run “Big Money” column is absolutely hilarious. She manages to write a fairly lengthy three-page article defending Goldman without addressing a single one of the main criticisms recently leveled at the bank. The piece is a protracted exercise in goalpost-moving, as her premise is that what Goldman’s critics accuse it of is not using the power of the state to bail itself out and enrich itself at the expense of others, but of having “designed the kind of hive mind that controls anything it touches.” According to Moore, the defense against the charge that Goldman executives have “the kind of hive mind that can control everything that it touches” is the fact that they fared so badly in their attempts at “controlling” government and popular opinion. She actually writes the following:
“If you believe that Goldman Sachs has designed the kind of devastating hive mind that can control any institution it touches, including the U.S. government, you also have to explain why Goldman Sachs alums have a history of not functioning terribly well outside of Goldman. Why, for instance, did Henry Paulson, by all accounts a brilliant man, flounder about in the politics of the Treasury so desperately that he was forced at one point to plead with Nancy Pelosi on bended knee? Why did the first TARP overseer, Neel Kashkari, get yelled at by Congress while performing the thankless job of managing the $700 billion kitty of the government? Why did Edward Liddy, former Goldman board member who served as the new CEO of AIG (AIG), quit in a huff over bonuses?”
Moore here is arguing that because Hank Paulson actually had to beg the House majority leader for $700 billion in no-strings-attached money to bail out his buddies, and because Neel Kashkari got “yelled at” for unilaterally changing the TARP mission in defiance of congressional orders (and for refusing to provide congress with information about where TARP money went and how he chose whom to give it to), and because former Goldman banker Ed Liddy evoked popular anger for using public money to shell out bonuses to the very department of AIG that bet $450 billion without having a dime to cover it (”necessitating” the bailout), that all of this somehow is proof that Goldman does not “have the kind of hive mind that conrols everything.”
She also seems to be asserting that leaving one high paying, high profile job for another is some kind of failure.
“…you also have to explain why Goldman Sachs alums have a history of not functioning terribly well outside of Goldman. “
..while presiding over the most powerful positions in this nation.
This would make even Yogi Berra’s head spin!
Oh come on you guys ,they are all a bunch of thieves ,always have been ,always will be . The crash of the real estate scheme just exposed just how bad they are .
I was just now wondering whether perhaps they were always this way, and the internet era merely serves to make it transparent to all who care?
If enough bottom callers say there will be a bottom later this year, perhaps a critical mass of good hopefulness will make it so. But I note similar assumptions following the Great Wall Street Crash of 1929 proved to be unfounded. I know it is different this time, as BB has studied the Great Depression and knows how to avoid making the same mistakes the Fed made back then, etc., but I still question whether some problems are not large enough that their very nature requires more than the usual amount of time to mend.
Wall Street Journal
* JULY 31, 2009
Bottom Lines Buoy Rebound Hopes
Though Profits Are Still Weak, Cost Cuts, Overseas Demand Help Many Companies Find Footing
BY PHRED DVORAK
Ten months after credit markets froze and deepened the recession, many companies, while still hurting, are seeing signs of a bottom and growing cautiously optimistic about an uptick by year’s end.
A number of major companies reported second-quarter earnings noticeably less grim than the prior two quarters, and in line with or ahead of Wall Street expectations, if still far below a year ago. Much of the support for earnings came through aggressive job cuts. But global companies also are seeing demand rise in some overseas markets, especially in Asia, even as demand stays slack at home.
…
The contraction of global trade is one story which certainly resonates with the 1930s.
Business
Shipping in the downturn
Sea of troubles
Jul 30th 2009
From The Economist print edition
The recession is buffeting the world of shipping—with even rougher waters ahead
FROM the sheltered waters of Subic Bay in the Philippines to Falmouth on the south coast of England, a vast, swelling armada lies idle. In Asia’s deep-sea havens 750 vessels—container ships, bulk carriers, tankers, car carriers and others—are laid up. A further 280 are sheltering in European waters. According to Lloyd’s Marine Intelligence Unit, nearly 10% of the world’s merchant ships are swaying gently at anchor because of a collapse in global trade.
Since the recession bit hard last autumn a lot of attention has been paid to the plunge in the Baltic Dry Index, a composite measure of the cost of shipping bulk cargoes such as iron ore and coal. It fell by over 90% between June and October last year, although it has since recovered slightly and is hovering at just above a quarter of its peak. World trade in general remains in its worst slump for generations, although it too is no longer falling. Two of the biggest shipping banks (RBS and HBOS) are in state-backed rehab. The parlous state of the world economy could mean more shipping companies following Eastwind Maritime, which went bankrupt in June. On July 28th Hapag-Lloyd, Germany’s largest container-shipping company, secured a €330m ($468m) bail-out from its shareholders while it seeks up to €1.75 billion to keep it from sinking altogether.
…
Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* JULY 30, 2009, 11:21 P.M. ET
Signs of Life in the Housing Market
The good news is that government efforts to prop up prices didn’t do much.
By GERALD P. O’DRISCOLL JR.
The economic crisis began with a housing downturn that spread to housing finance, and then to the entire economy in the form of a deep recession. Stability in the financial sector and growth in the economy will not resume until there is recovery in housing. But what will constitute a recovery in housing?
While the news this week about an uptick in home prices and sales in some markets is encouraging, those anticipating a return to pre-bubble price levels will find the wait to be a long one. In some markets it might not happen for a decade or more. Other markets may never return to pre-crisis prices—certainly not when adjusted for inflation.
Unfortunately, many public policy proposals have been aimed at propping up home prices, or at least cushioning their fall. Nothing could be more counterproductive.
The housing downturn was a classic bursting of an asset bubble. The suddenness of the collapse was frightening and, for a time, prices seemed to be in a free-fall, especially in over-heated areas in Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada. But the cure for falling prices in the aftermath of a speculative bubble is, paradoxically, to allow them to fall.
In housing, as with other assets, falling prices clear markets. They do so by making homes more affordable. During the bubble, homes had become out of reach for many people. In some areas—such as the San Francisco Bay area—households with a median income could not afford a median-priced home. This locked first-time buyers out of the market and made existing homes the currency for purchasing another home. To get around this, creative financing (such as “liar loans”) sprang up to enable some to acquire a substitute currency. We know where that led—defaults and bankruptcies.
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“When home prices fall sharply, banks and others help facilitate a process to sell homes more quickly than during normal conditions. That is what’s happening in Phoenix and other cities right now as speculators scoop up homes on the brink of auctions. Often a buyer will allow a prior owner to remain in the home as a renter at a much reduced cost. The new buyers can cover some or all of their costs and hold the properties until such time as home prices actually turn up again.”
The problem I perceive is that, at least in some cases, speculators are rushing in and buying at prices which don’t pencil out as rentals, especially against the backdrop of prices which are still falling and a massive shadow inventory of REO which the banks are holding off the market. While the market is unfrozen, so is the water going over a waterfall…
“Government programs to prop up home prices have been half-hearted and ineffective overall, and mercifully so. A successful program to prop up home prices would have aborted the recovery process. It would have created an overhang of unsold, over-priced homes. Speculators would have held off buying and first-time buyers would have remained frozen out of the market.”
Ahem!
There are no green shoots sprouting just yet in the commercial property sector…
Finance and Economics
The collapse in commercial property
Towers of debt
Jul 30th 2009
From The Economist print edition
Concerns are switching from the residential to the commercial sector
Illustration by S. Kambayashi
FROM a distance Potsdamer Platz looks a bit like its old self. Once the central hub of Berlin, before it was turned into a rubble-strewn no-man’s-land divided by the Wall, it is now surrounded by shiny new towers. Get a little closer, however, and it becomes clear that many buildings are just façades painted onto giant hoardings that rise ten stories high between actual office blocks.
This subterfuge makes for a far more pleasant view than that provided by vacant lots. It also points to an unusual degree of restraint among developers in Europe’s second-largest property market (by transactions). The commercial-property market in most other parts of the developed world is in deep trouble.
Unlike other property busts, this downturn has not been driven by speculative overbuilding but by investors’ overenthusiasm. Commercial property was a popular asset class for much of this decade. Institutional investors who lost a lot of money when the dotcom bubble burst were persuaded that switching from the stockmarket into property would diversify their portfolios and reduce their risk. Cheap finance was plentiful. Investors could indulge in a version of the “carry trade”—borrowing at a low interest rate to buy buildings and counting on the rental yield and capital growth to more than cover their financing costs.
That strategy looked smart when rents and capital values were rising and vacancy rates were low. But as cheap financing has dried up and economies have tumbled into recession, investors have become badly exposed. According to Marcus & Millichap, an estate agent, the office-vacancy rate in Manhattan climbed by more than three percentage points in the first half of the year, to 11.2%. As tenants have disappeared, rents have fallen too—by 16% over the past year, Marcus & Millichap reckons.
Property prices have also been badly hit. Moody’s, a rating agency, estimates that American commercial-property prices dropped by 7.6% in May alone, leaving them almost 35% below their peak in October 2007. Prices would have gone down even further had not transactions dried to a trickle (see chart). Owners are loath to sell into a falling market, although some distressed sales are occurring.
All this sounds like a replay of the downturn in the residential-property market, where easy borrowing terms allowed homebuyers to push prices to extreme levels. To add to the sense of déjà vu, property loans have also been bundled into complex financial instruments, known as commercial mortgage-backed securities (CMBSs). The riskiest of these, mainly those issued between 2005 and 2007, are now running into trouble.
Realpoint, a credit-rating agency, says that nearly $29 billion of CMBSs, around 3.5% of the total, have become delinquent (ie, borrowers have not kept up interest payments) in the past 12 months. It thinks the delinquency rate could reach 6% by the end of the year. Richard Parkus of Deutsche Bank reckons the default rate could eventually reach 12%. Together with bad construction loans, that could push the losses of American banks on commercial property to $200 billion-230 billion. Many small banks will go under as a result.
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Behind the rickety wall of misplaced and premature optimism erected by the serial bottom caller brigade lies an ugly fundamental reality which they seem unwilling to confront: The juxtaposition of a cresting baby boomer demographic wave with massive overbuilding of supersized high end US homes has created perfect storm disequilibrium conditions which will take decades, not months, to unwind.
The Huffington Post
July 31, 2009
Mark Miller
Syndicated newspaper columnist, blogger at RetirementRevised.com
Posted: July 30, 2009 01:05 PM
Read More: Baby Boomers, Economic Crisis, Housing Bubble, Housing Crisis, Housing Market, Housing Slump, Retirement, Business News
When the housing market was soaring, many baby boomers thought of their homes as piggy-banks that could be cracked open in retirement to finance retirement.
High housing prices would allow us to leverage equity to finance our lifestyles, buy second homes or pay entry fees into retirement communities. That thinking was encouraged by the financial services industry, which aggressively marketed low-interest mortgage debt and equity-to-cash products like home equity loans and reverse mortgages.
But the piggy bank was smashed when the housing market crashed. And today’s high unemployment rates, sagging incomes and rising foreclosure rates make it unlikely that we’ll see a strong rebound anytime soon in housing. True, the widely-watched Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller home price index released this week showed U.S. home prices rose in May on a month-to-month basis for the first time since July 2006. But that shouldn’t be taken as a sign that the market is going to rebound to pre-crash levels anytime soon. At best, the Case-Shiller index hints that we may have found a bottom in housing. Maybe.
To be sure, the housing crash has caused pain for every American demographic group. But older Americans have the greatest exposure to real estate. Consider:
–Seventy-nine percent of Americans over age 55 own their own homes, compared with a national median ownership rate of 69 percent. As prices soared during the bubble era, boomers took on larger mortgages, and a greater percentage are now carrying mortgage debt well into their 60s than ever before.
–Home equity accounts for one-third to half of all net worth for older Americans; the only larger source of household wealth is Social Security. (Despite all the buzz about the stock market’s crash, housing actually impacts a much larger group of Americans, simply because home ownership is spread much more evenly across income groups than equity investments.)
– 30 percent of Americans age 45 to 54 are underwater on their mortgages, according to one study–that is, they owe more than their homes are worth, and would need to bring cash to a closing.
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This passage from Mark Miller’s Huffington Post article succinctly explains why a US housing market bottom is not likely at hand, and in fact may take decades, not months, to reach:
Warning signs were flashing in the housing market well ahead of the crash, due to basic laws of supply and demand. Baby boomers have been a key driver of housing demand over the past several decades due to our generation’s extraordinary size. Now, we constitute an enormous group of potential home sellers as we age and begin to sell homes in order to downsize or move.
But boomers need to sell to a smaller, less affluent pool of buyers. “The most important factor that pushes prices up is when you have more buyers than sellers,” says Dowell Myers, a professor of urban planning and demography at the University of Southern California. Myers has been pointing to a huge sea change in the ratio of buyers and sellers that will put downward pressure on housing values over the next two decades.
“The baby boom generation has pushed up housing prices over the past three decades, as they steadily moved up the ladder and bought housing. So people think the last three decades are normal. But at some point boomers will start to cash out.”
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LA Times
Hot housing market? No, but Dean Baker bought a house
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– Dean Baker, the prominent Washington, D.C., housing economist who saw the bubble coming and sold his condo in 2004, recently bought a house. Baker said he thinks the market still has more room to fall, but he wanted to enjoy his backyard this summer and was willing to pay a premium if it comes to that. He said he’s OK with a 5% to 10% further decline in his home value, but “if it goes down 20% I’ll be upset.”
This sure does not sound to me like a description of a real estate market nearing an incipient bottom. Both commercial and residential are still in the process of getting flushed down the default toilet. Given still-rising unemployment, plus yet-to-be-seen fallout from the state budget crisis, I am highly puzzled over the serial bottom callers’ recent optimism.
LA Times
MORTGAGES
California’s default rate soars to 9.5%
Delinquencies in June are up sharply from a year ago, when 6% of borrowers were behind on their loans.
By Peter Y. Hong
July 31, 2009
About 1 in 10 Californians with a home loan is now in default, and there’s growing evidence that the mortgage meltdown is spreading to commercial real estate.
The home mortgage delinquency rate — the percentage of borrowers who have missed several payments and are in the first stage of foreclosure — climbed in June to 9.5% in California and 9.9% in Los Angeles County, according to First American CoreLogic.
The staggering number of home mortgage defaults probably will lead to large numbers of foreclosures through at least this year, housing experts say.
“It’s probably a given we’ll see a high number of foreclosures in the next couple of quarters due to the level of defaults plus the recession and jobs lost. There’s plenty more pain to come,” said Andrew LePage, an analyst for real estate research firm MDA DataQuick of San Diego.
Mortgage defaults are more likely to result in foreclosure when borrowers owe more on their homes than they are currently worth — commonly called being “upside down” or “underwater” in industry lingo.
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Big “if” here:
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In recent months, about 60% of California mortgages in default ended up foreclosed, LePage said.
Foreclosures should pick up even more now that various government moratoriums and voluntary foreclosure freezes by lenders have expired.
But LePage said the rate of foreclosures may not reach the record level set last year if lenders increase loan modifications or approve more “short sales,” in which homes are sold for less than their mortgage amounts.
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I have to compliment Mr. LePage for speaking to the facts instead of spewing the usual fantasy-driven drivel from DataQuick.