July 31, 2009

Bits Bucket For July 31, 2009

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 06:21:38

Wall Street Pit
Global Market Insight
Wall Street Compensation Collusion
By Larry Doyle|Jul 30, 2009, 4:14 PM

Gaining market intelligence is one thing. Colluding with market participants in business practices is an entirely different issue. The Wall Street compensation process has always operated dangerously close to that line, and would appear to have gone over it in 2008.

This potentially collusive practice is easily disguised in the midst of excessive profitability, but is blatantly obvious when revenues disappear. The Wall Street Journal highlights this practice in writing Banks Paid Big Bonuses as Profits Slid:

- Several of the banks hit hardest by the economic downturn and those that got the most U.S. government aid nonetheless handed out huge bonuses to hundreds of employees last year, according to New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo.

- Some of the other banks, such as Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley and J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., paid out more in bonuses than their profit for the year, Mr. Cuomo’s office said. Goldman Sachs, for example, earned $2.3 billion, paid out $4.8 billion in bonuses and got $10 billion in TARP funding. Goldman had 212 people get more than $3 million, while 953 got more than $1 million. J.P. Morgan topped the list of large bonuses, with 1,626 people getting more than $1 million and more than 200 people getting at least a $3 million payment.

How and why does this gross misallocation of taxpayer funds occur? Very simply, Wall Street firms collude to keep the compensation levels elevated. How so? They talk to each other to compare and contrast compensation levels across business units and by seniority. This practice has gone on for years. In fact, my better three-quarters was involved in this surveillance back in the mid 1980s when she worked at Drexel Burnham.

Gaining market intelligence when you are paying compensation with your own money is one thing. Paying outrageous compensation packages across the Street with taxpayer funds is an entirely different issue.

Who should be taken to task? The CEOs and Boards of every firm on Wall Street. The pay for performance elevator is supposed to run both ways.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-31 06:45:02

Every loser senator and congressman who voted for the POS $700k TARP bailout should be taken to task.

 
Comment by James
2009-07-31 06:53:47

We elected a bunch of democrats here. These are the easy money guys. They may go after these guys in forms of taxation, expect loose money standards to continue. Perhaps some random prosecution or two that doesn’t recapture any money.

As we both know, raising tax rates on these guys will cause them to hide their income by taking write offs by purchasing garbage assets. Should be great comedy, much like O’s plan to hit the windfall profits on oil companies.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 07:22:31

So the repubs were the ‘tight money’ guys? hmmm

‘….taking write offs by purchasing garbage assets.’

Great! A market for all that excess housing!

Comment by varelse
2009-07-31 12:44:59

A criticism of the democrats is not necessarily(or even usually, these days) and endorsement of the republicans.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-07-31 07:43:47

As an Ex-Republican, I can’t seem to find a real difference in the parties at this point. I’m through with the party charade, I’m an American foremost.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:47:21

I am trying to figure out which party believes in a RULE OF LAW. Perhaps the outcome of current fraud investigations aimed at Megabank, Inc will provide some answers.

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 08:35:32

I’m afraid the rule of law went out the window a long time ago. The ‘golden rule’ is the only thing that matters now. The only way we will break this system is to not participate in it.

 
Comment by Bub Diddley
2009-07-31 09:11:37

The only way we will break this system is to not participate in it.

Yup. Closed my BofA account and opened one at the local credit union. Working the least hours of my life right now, and making less, which means they get less in the form of taxes. I’ve cut back on buying useless crap, so they get less of my money that way, too. I don’t remember who the poster was, but I saw a quote on here about how life in America is basically “working hard to make more money, to spend on things that make life worse.” Pretty much, yeah. Or, as Joe Bageant stated: “Better to work less, own less and escape the plague of blackmailers.”

Another memorable quote I like to keep in mind is from Michael Pollen, who wrote “The Omnivore’s Dilemma”:

“Don’t buy any food you’ve ever seen advertised. Ninety-four percent of ad budgets for food go to processed food. I mean, the broccoli growers don’t have money for ad budgets. So the real food is not being advertised. And that’s really all you need to know.”

I find it helpful to take this a bit further and apply it to EVERYTHING, not just food. If I see an advertisement (I canceled the cable, but still there are billboards, direct mail, print ads…impossible to escape), I make a conscious decision to avoid that particular product or service. Of course, it is next to impossible to avoid everything you see an ad for (for example, I’m not going to cancel my phone service out of spite if I see an ad for my phone company), but it certainly changes your mindset. “Don’t buy anything you’ve seen advertised” is my new mantra.

I’m sure many of you have already come to these same conclusions independently.

 
Comment by james
2009-07-31 09:47:18

Traditionally the democrats were the loose money guys.

I’m not sure where the republican party went. Down some stinking rathole following the evangelicals.

The investigations will produce some political capital but nothing will be done to address the the large criminal enterprise that all that leverage supported. So, GS/C/WF exc will get a pass. Bernake will get a pass. AG is out of things and would there be a point to going after them.

Rubin, Valient hero of the Clinton junta who is a big part of this mess, will not even be thought of.

Need to have hard reserve limits and let bond holders (aka the very wealthy) take a bath. Realize this includes a lot of pensioners as well.

 
Comment by GH
2009-07-31 10:11:27

The only way we will break this system is to not participate in it.

Having worked the last 10 years as a software engineer paying some $20K a year in taxes, I found myself unemployed last year and have not worked a consistent job since. NO taxes this year - bummer for State of CA, and NO new car. I paid it off this spring, so no big sales tax there and not much road tax either. IF I need something I order from Amazon and wait. I don’t speed and always come to a full stop etc, so no big contributions to the Mayors retirement fund there (I Hope).

I 100% agree everything is soooooo corrupt now the only way to accomplish anything is not to participate.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-07-31 11:00:59

“The only way we will break this system is to not participate in it.”

I’m doing my best to “not participate” as well. I’m not sure of the repercussions in terms of job losses, though, should this turn into a groundswell movement. I really enjoy seeing big corporations go bust. If only the crooked politicians would get out of the way and let it happen naturally.

 
Comment by wolfgirl
2009-07-31 11:38:26

We’re part of the “not participate” group as well. We plan to stay that way even when our income increases.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 12:12:49

Count me as part of the “not participate” crowd as well. Here’s what I’ve been doing:

1. Shopping at locally owned, independently operated businesses rather than corporate chains. I dropped some big bucks into the Food Conspiracy Co-op’s coffers last night, but that’s okay. The co-op pays an annual dividend to members. Safeway doesn’t do that.

2. Being heavily involved in grassroots, community-based efforts. Example: Tomorrow morning, I will be participating in a greywater harvesting workshop in Midtown Tucson. It’s at a private residence, and the owner is part of a water harvesting co-op that I also belong to. You have to work a certain number of hours on other people’s projects before the co-op can come to your house for a workshop. I’ll be hosting a water harvesting earthworks/kitchen garden workshop in October.

3. Taking incremental steps to kick the fossil fuel habit. As y’all know, I’m an avid bicyclist. So, I’m not burning gasoline to get around. Then there’s my house. I’m working on weaning the Arizona Slim Ranch from the grid. This morning’s project was to get the porch light off of Tucson Electric Power and onto the sun.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 08:34:53

Right on, awaiting wipeout. I’m a former Democrat who feels the same way.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:06:46

the rule of law went out the window a long time ago.

1982 when reagan signed the deregulation law.

That point on, it sealed the bad seeds being sown since 1920s.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:08:57

agree both parties suck.

what to do… I like a couple of people, but especially the supremes are a stacked deck, and all other judgeships are too.

 
 
Comment by Socrates11
2009-07-31 10:26:01

Nice post awaiting wipeout. Ex-Dem/Ex-Rep here. Wish there was a viable alternative. I’m afraid the only way things will ever change is through another revolution, unless the government collapses under it’s own weight first.

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Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 11:08:31

“As an Ex-Republican, I can’t seem to find a real difference in the parties at this point.”

It’s not Democrat and Republican any more…..it’s Democrat and Democrat Lite.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 12:32:49

Wow what a change.

It used to be Republican and Republican lite.

 
 
Comment by varelse
2009-07-31 12:46:32

The dems seem to me like the reps on steroids, but they’re both intent on taking us in the same direction. It’s only a matter of speed.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 08:03:44

Both parties SUCK!

How ever the dems missed a once in a lifetime opportunity to bury the repubs. They should have come out and blasted the repubs and the Bush administration for their spendthrift ways , driving the country toward bankruptcy etc. Saying they were going to get the country back on an even keel and not continue the corrupt paths of the past, but did they do that, HELL no, they put the petal to the metal, and now make Bush look like a penny pincher.

So they (being the dems) will end up owning this steaming pile of crap, no way around it. Of course it’s not about what’s best for the country or it’s citizens(consumers)it is about power and control, period!

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:18:13

Maybe this crisis will mark at least the beginning of the end of our current two-party system. It’s not hard to imagine this one humbling both parties, since it’s problems are not so easily ‘papered’ over. There’s never been a time as ripe for a populist candidate since GD1.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 08:31:02

“There’s never been a time as ripe for a populist candidate since GD1″.

You may well be right, and I certainly hope to see this “two” party system hit the wall. It’s really more like a one party pissing contest. There will always be differences of opinion, but we really need to try and even out this lopsided system.

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 08:39:31

Carefull what you wish for. The history of american poulisim is a scary one. Read Elmer Gantry for a primer.

Also, to clarify a comment I made above. when I said to “not peaticipate in the system” I menat the financial system. F*** the banks.

Politics is another matter entirely and that starts at the ground level. I’m VERY involved at a local level trying to break people out of their stuppor.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:48:09

I agree, sleepr, ‘populism’ has some ugly history, but its basic idea is of upholding the interests of the avg person over the various elites. The internet makes such a party much more nationally viable, and this crisis is just beginning to really crush Joe 6pk. If this idea can’t take hold now, then we’re ‘two’ partying into the foreseeable future. My fear is one of the two parties stealing populism’s thunder by running a pseudo-populist of their own. (You bettcha!)

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 08:59:46

Oh I agree completely but I also know it’s a very narrow needle to thread. I wore through a LOT of shoe leather knocking on doors durring the last 3 presidential campaigns and it’s frightening just how much mis-information and outright stupidity is out there.

But you have a very valid point, also born out with my personal experience from said campaigns. Joe Sixpack is scared and pissed off and when he takes a moment to think about things he knows where his interests lie and he’s willing to do something about it. Who’s going to direct that energy? Thats a very open question.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:01:08

“My fear is one of the two parties stealing populism’s thunder by running a pseudo-populist of their own.”

Didn’t that just happen?

 
Comment by jsocal
2009-07-31 09:05:47

re: Keating Five - McCain was the only Republican in the group which included John Glenn.
So I suppose the ad hominem answers the rhetorical question in that yes, Republicans WOULD be slower to hand out money to Wall Street Bankers.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-07-31 09:21:31

Where is Ross Perot when we need him?

By the way McCain was later exonerated in the Keating investigation.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 09:37:34

PBear- Both parties always run semi-pseudo-quasi-populists but they keep it at the level of choking down cheeseburgers with the commoners and mocking the other guy for para-surfing or forgetting how many houses he owns. They rarely rail against the actual PTB.

I think the last election didn’t capture the fear that many are starting to feel. That’s what a real populist, for better or for worse, can seize upon. What would the PTB’s reaction be if such a candidate were to start to gain traction on the national level? Would they go peacefully? It would be a well-funded retirement.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-31 09:43:02

Right Here….

http://www.fec.gov/pres96/presgen1.htm

we will never have another 3rd party…were doomed

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 10:27:54

“…choking down cheeseburgers with the commoners…”

How about beer?

 
Comment by packman
2009-07-31 11:43:41

“…choking down cheeseburgers with the commoners…”

How about beer?

LOL - exactly. Sorry, but what a pathetic non-presidential piece of pandering *that* was. Stupid.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 12:00:19

I think they should have done tequila shots until they settled the issue one way or the other.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 12:35:03

I think they should have done tequila shots until they settled the issue one way or the other.

Funny you should mention that:

http://xkcd.com/617/

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 14:41:34

Good find lavi d! Love that comic!

 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-07-31 17:49:05

Here’s one about Blogging:

http://xkcd.com/274/

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-07-31 20:38:39

End of the two party system? No way. Bonnie or Clyde - you gotta vote for one.

Or, for Simpsons fans, you’ve gotta vote for Kang or Kodos - they’re the only choices you’ve got.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-07-31 08:20:58

I agree. My standard response to Republicans who decry the amount that the current ruling party is spending is to say “Because you think that the Republican party would be SLOWER to hand out money to Wall Street Bankers? When led by a member of the Keating Five?”

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-07-31 10:29:55

McCain’s economic advisor for his 2008 prez run was Phil Grahm, the pos involved in overturning The Glass-Steagall Act. McCain and his elk certainly don’t deserve a pedestal. Look around at his flock.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 11:10:03

McCain and his elk certainly don’t deserve a pedestal.

What if he had a moose?

 
Comment by varelse
2009-07-31 12:54:47

Yes, slower. That’s the best we can say is it would have been slower.

 
Comment by Reddy
2009-08-01 11:19:01

Don’t forget Phil Grahm’s ties to UBS. The IRS has reached an agreement with UBS and the Swiss. Now they only want info on 5200 instead of 52000 secret accounts.

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 09:18:15

Both parties SUCK!

Oh I agree. But I think the Democratic party sucks a little less.

But that may just be due to my inability to wrap my head around the enormity of the damage some of you say they are causing.

I used to like the Republicans for their fiscal sanity and their no-nonsense foreign policy. Both of those went out the window during the latest Bush administration to be replaced with gag-inducing pandering to the religious right and good-ol’-boy corruption at all levels.

If the GOP would distance itself from religion and get off their moral high-horse, I’d be more inclined to lean their way.

Basically:

I don’t care what consenting adult you sleep with or marry, what drugs you take or what you do with your fetuses - as long as I don’t have to pay for any of your stupidity or laziness.

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Comment by varelse
2009-07-31 12:57:33

With all the crap our economy is going through, gay marraige and abortion are kind of afterthoughts at this point. I wouldn’t consider either issue a deciding factor in voting for or against a candidate or party at this point.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:11:13

Just 6 dollars dot org

and then we all can run for office and have 50-50 chance to win against the ‘big guys’.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:01:52

Hey, TARP came out last August.

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 08:38:43

The taxpayers only have recourse (other than no more bailouts if they can get their reps to hold the line) if a rule to that effect was written into the conditions of the bailout.

The *shareholders* on the other hand, have lots of control - if they could only make the people who are supposed to be reprenting their interests on the board of directors accountable. TIme to tell the big money managers (at pension funds, mutual funds, etc.) that they shareholders come first. Hey, Goldman, if you wanted to stay a partnership you should have stayed a partnership. You are a corporation now and you don’t get to keep all the money anymore. You have to share it with your OWNERS.

Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 10:36:51

You are a corporation now and you don’t get to keep all the money anymore. You have to share it with your OWNERS.
Corporate law needs to be re-written to mandate that. Also, to institute a death penalty for corporations that misbehave as outrageously as Sacks of Gold, Inc. does.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 14:52:11

Good point polly. Damned good point. When the BODs managed to get the laws changed and no longer had to answer to the shareholders, that’s when it all went to hell.

They traded on the fiction of accountability to shareholders in return for relaxing regulations.

And got away with it.

How? Because the majority shareholders were making a ton of money so of course they went along with it. Until it came crashing down.

 
 
Comment by antitrust whistleblower
2009-07-31 21:32:11

I’ll tell you where the collusion is: banks agreeing to keep foreclosures off the market to inflate values. That’s an antitrust violation of the first degree. Where’s the Department of Justice? In bed with the bankers.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 06:24:44

Daily Finance
an AOL money & finance site

While losing billions, 4,793 Wall Streeters made over $1 million in 2008
Peter Cohan
Jul 30th 2009 at 4:40PM

You’ve got to hand it to Andrew Cuomo. The New York attorney general is following a well-worn path to New York power. Like Rudy Giuliani and Eliot Spitzer, Cuomo is using his crackdown on Wall Street corruption as a stepping stone to higher office. The only problem for Cuomo is that he has not yet announced his run for New York governor.

But he is coming up with some great numbers to illustrate just how badly broken Wall Street’s compensation system is. Despite losing billions in 2008, 4,793 bankers and brokers who work there got paid at least $1 million. What is amazing to me is how many of those people worked for firms that lost billions of dollars. Where did they get the money to pay the bonuses if they lost money? I am guessing from government bailouts, like the $700 billion TARP.

If something cannot go on forever, it will stop.

–Herbert Stein–

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:20:22

I’d support a Spitzer/Cuomo ticket. (And it’s fun to say.)

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-31 08:45:10

Mee too

Paterson was just keeping the seat warm for spitzer

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:12:23

I believe Spitzer could get elected if he ran. I think many people feel he gave in too fast. All he needed to do was stretch out that scandal. He should have gone to rehab or something and it would have died down. That’s usually the M.O. for such things. He just panicked.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:03:08

Spitz-’er Cuom-o?

Perhaps Slick Willie could serve as a campaign consultant, to smooth over any lingering concerns about dangerous liaisons.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 09:43:46

LOL ‘He didn’t tell her to lie in her disposition. He told her to lie in this position.’

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:13:59

Depends on how you say it and with what kind of accent.

Gosh, golly, some accents are so thick ;> you really could get confused.

 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-07-31 17:52:20

‘He didn’t tell her to lie in her disposition. He told her to lie in this position.’

Okay- try saying that with a Cajun accent.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 06:29:12

National Public Radio
Turf Wars And Details Bog Down A Banking Overhaul
Adam Davidson and Linda Wertheimer
July 31, 2009

As the global economy continues its slow climb out of last fall’s economic crisis, many in Congress and the U.S. agree it’s time to rework the laws that govern financial institutions. The debate is reminiscent of the current fight over health care, with many calling for change but few agreeing on what the new laws should look like.

The original plan for overhauling market regulations called for finishing the job by May. Adam Davidson, an economics correspondent with NPR’s Planet Money, notes that the Obama administration didn’t present a plan until June. “Now people are saying the July deadline that some had imposed is clearly not going to be met,” Davidson says, “and we’re lucky to get anything on the president’s desk by the end of the calendar year.”

America’s age-old split between large urban banks and small rural ones continues to this day, Davidson reports, and that’s also slowing the process of regulatory reform. He says lawmakers tend to divide along party lines when it comes to the nuances, like how big a role the government should play in the economy. Republicans tend toward more market-oriented solutions, while Democrats lean toward more regulation.

“How is this going to affect the powers of the big agencies, like the Fed?” Wertheimer asks.

“I’d say the role of the Fed is probably the single most important, significant and hotly debated issue,” Davidson says. “There’s people who say, ‘Hey, look, the Fed saved our system. They’re the ones who had the best regulation. They’re the ones who came in and rescued these banks. We need to give the Fed a lot more power. They need to be our systemic regulator, overseeing the whole system.’

“Others say, ‘Wait a second — the Fed’s job is monetary policy, basically figuring out how many dollars there should be in the world, and they messed that up really badly.’ ” Davidson explains that critics, especially in the Senate, argue that the Federal Reserve caused the crisis by keeping interest rates too low in 2003 and fueling a bubble in the housing market.

Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 10:39:18

Typical NPR coverage, all about “he-said,he-said”, rivalries between special interest groups, etc., and nothing about what specifically went wrong & what is being proposed to fix that.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 06:32:30

A rolling loan gathers no loss.

American Public Media
Marketplace
Scott Jagow
Jul 30, 2009 12:06 PM
Bad loans still make money

A group of former Countrywide people launched an IPO today with their new company, PennyMac. Take one guess at what they’re doing. And while we’re at it, let’s talk about why the government’s loan modification program isn’t working.

PennyMac is based in Calabasas, California (sound familiar?), and it plans to make money by buying up failing home mortgages from failed banks and then restructuring the loans. From Forbes/Reuters:

PennyMac’s chief executive is Stanford Kurland, a former president and chief operating officer of Countrywide. At least 10 other top PennyMac officials are alumni of Countrywide, which was also based in Calabasas.

Countrywide was once the largest U.S. mortgage lender, but its aggressive lending practices are widely considered to be a major cause of the nation’s housing crisis.

PennyMac’s business has drawn the attention of critics who have accused Kurland and other Countrywide alumni of trying to profit from a housing crisis they helped create.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-31 06:42:40

Job creation, how wonderful. Maybe Mozilo can get job with them too. See people, Obamanomics is working!

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 06:58:42

Does anyone think this “PennyMac” may be a good investment?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 07:42:12

Sure for pennies on the dollar ;)

 
Comment by bink
2009-07-31 07:49:13

Do you trust Mozilo?

Comment by so cal lender
2009-07-31 08:42:00

I trust that Mozillo knows how to rape and pillage the mortgage market. He knows the mortgage industry well, and while his actions may not be ethical, he knows how to make a ton of money even if it’s at the expense of others suffering. Make a ton of bad loans, sell them off into the secondary market and then buy them back for pennies on the dollar and make another ton of money. Only in America!

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Comment by bink
2009-07-31 09:11:38

I can understand that, but do you think buying Countrywide stock would have been a good long term investment?

 
Comment by so cal lender
2009-07-31 09:31:42

Oh He11 NO! But if you can get your timing right, Mozillo knows how to make money. He’s a greedy bastard.

 
 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 08:48:15

Thanks! I just spit coffee all over my screen ;-)

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Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 06:37:49

Good Morning everyone!!!

Well, it’s 1800 and I just got some tbone steak, schrimp and cherry pie with the Kool-aide singles my wife sent me! It’s 112 degs and life is good!

Comment by James
2009-07-31 06:57:23

At least you don’t need to heat your food.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 07:29:21

:)

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-07-31 08:12:22

Stpn, the best food I ever got during my three years in the Army was while I was in Vietnam. Not always of course, not even frequently, but occasionally a T-bone steak for everyone (with the company CO and first sergeant manning the grills) along with a utility trailer full of beer on ice. That year was also the first time I ever had lobster newberg (coincidentally a general was paying our outfit a visit!), and it was as good as any I ever had as a civilian.

Stay safe!

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Comment by polly
2009-07-31 08:46:55

Lobster newberg? Eh, why bother? The only dairy that should ever touch a lobster is clarified butter, and if the lobster is any good (harder the shell the better) you don’t even want to mess it up with that.

Save the cheese for the filling in the cannoli you have for dessert.

(Once or twice a summer and again sometimes for New Year’s eve, my grandfather would send my aunt and uncle into Boston with a wad of cash to get lobsters at the docks and Italian pastry in the North End. Summer, we would cook ‘em in the house and eat ‘em on the beach with corn picked up at a farm stand in town. Winter was a little harder as we couldn’t let the seagulls clean up the bits and pieces, but it also worked. Funny thing is, my granfather didn’t eat lobster. He had a steak.)

 
Comment by ACH
2009-07-31 09:36:08

Polly,
You may want to try eating c rations given to the Marines by the Army. I’m pretty sure they were Korea or WWII vintage. I was in the USMC in the late 70’s.
Lobster Newburg? I never had any back then.

Roidy

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 09:53:15

Last week (friday), they had lobster’s with the steaks. I got two of em! I really miss KBR up in Bagram on my last tour. That contractor can really make some good food. We have supreme here and they SUCK. I have lost about 35lbs since April, but I guess the wife will be happy when I come home…

KBR is the best at cooking mess hall food, but they are more expensive.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 10:42:24

have lost about 35lbs since April, You don’t think the summer heat out your way had anything to do with it? When I spent my summers in southern Illinois, Texas & NM (no A/C then), I was as skinny as a rail. Of course, I was decades younger.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-07-31 10:44:30

My grandfather was trained in some fancy Seattle hotel as a chef. When he volunteered for the Army in WWI, he was made a mess sargent for his outfit. Once the guys in the outfit realized he really could cook well, they made sure he was kept in the rear and out of the line of fire. He always said that his cooking ability kept him alive through that war.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 12:38:56

ACH,

I remember those C-Rations well.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 13:54:52

He always said that his cooking ability kept him alive through that war. Then there was the story about the Afghan soldier who shot his company’s cook & was given a medal for saving the lives of the rest of the company.

 
 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 07:09:53

Surf and turf in the ‘ghani’, eh? Enjoy! Still drinking the ‘kool aid’ over there, I see. Buy now or be priced out forever!

 
Comment by oxide
2009-07-31 07:13:25

I heard that the kool-aid singles are popular. I found some Celestial Seasonings singles in a bargain bin, so I got some for the carepak I’m assembling. I’d buy chocolate but I’m afraid for that 112° heat…

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 07:29:49

There are ‘instant wine’ packets now. But it’s non-alcoholic. Not sure how that would fly in a war zone.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 07:38:10

As long as it’s non alchoholic, you wont get the mail clerks hand cut off by Ahmed the muslim sensor. Funny how we have to respect THEIR muslim customs while fighting for their independence, but they dont care about our customs…

Makes you wonder what would happen if we get a muslim majority in the states, eh?

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-07-31 07:45:07

I IM my ex girlfriend occasionally. She’s a Kuwaiti. She mentioned a week ago that over there they do have non-alcoholic beer. I never heard of non-alcoholic wine unless you mean grape juice powder mix!

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-07-31 07:46:13

France will be the canary in the coal mine on that one.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-07-31 08:08:33

Yep….And its there own fault to some degree…They are so laid back that they never gave much attention to what was happening around them…

Stpn2me…As far as it happening here ?? How many guns are there throughout America ?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:11:26

Not saying it sounds good BiLA! Besides, when I’m hiking/camping, I want cold water or cold beer. Not this…

http://www.brettonstuff.com/index.php/backpacking/dehydrated-red-wine

 
Comment by Elanor
2009-07-31 08:40:02

I tried some nonalcoholic chardonnay once. It tasted like melted butter.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:54:13

mmm….melted butter…

One of the comments on the above link says the dehydrated chardonnay tastes like ‘fizzy dandruff’.

 
 
 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 07:35:33

Pure chocolate wouldnt hold up too well, but M&M’s seem to do well. As do chocolate chip and Oreo’s. The last set of carepackages we got from GlasoSmith Kline was full of that stuff and lasted all of about ten minutes when we opened them!

We some times get some fitness nannies sending us crystal light, which is ok, but EVERYONE loves the Kool aide. It helps when we have to drink upwards of 5-10 water bottles a day..

In our environment, we arent worried about suger content, it just tastes good. :) We try to keep the soldiers away from soda’s in this heat..

Comment by oxide
2009-07-31 08:13:24

I don’t think they’re being diet nannies. Crystal light is just the most prevalent thing in the store. There aren’t many single packets with the sugar — I’ll look. And you guys need the sugar rush more than the good taste.

Maybe I can get the larger koolaid packets and a couple funnels for the water bottles. M&M’s and Reeses Pieces? Chocoate Teddy Grahams? Ovaltine?

[I know that I'm usually Mistress Farmer's Market, but face it, there are places where the industrial food system is an advantage...]

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Comment by polly
2009-07-31 09:00:57

Is the artificial sweetener even stable in that sort of heat? They don’t recommend it for cooking, but I’m not sure if that is a heat thing or a texture thing.

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-07-31 09:58:04

Crystal light is just the most prevalent thing in the store.

That’s the first step in taking away freedoms and changing behavior, take away CHOICES.

 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 10:18:28

I don’t think you can attribute lack Kool Aid drink mixes packaged for single serving bottle of water to government intrusion into free market forces. Kool aid is a down market choice - it is primarily advertised as being a cheaper option than soda, at least in part because you provide your own sugar. If you create it for a single serving bottle, you have to include the sugar in the package and you are aiming it at people who carry around bottled water. We sometimes forget how short a time that has been a regular person sort of thing - it started out as very highbrow.

Single serving Kool Aid doesn’t fit in their marketing plan, or, at least it hasn’t. They might be able to sell it now if they used actual sugar in the packets and tried to market it as not having high fructose corn syrup. But again, the HFCS obsession people are not really the Kool Aid crowd. They are the Honest Tea/Odwalla/Pom crowd. I just don’t see that one working, but based entirely on market forces.

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 09:12:50

i thought Tootsie Rolls were supposed to be the most durable “chocolate” in high heat. I’ve certainly never seen one melt…

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 09:49:34

How about those hard chocolatey things that old people like? Reizens? They’d be good in a war zone. And they’re really not that bad.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-31 12:44:02

How about those hard chocolatey things that old people like? Reizens? They’d be good in a war zone. And they’re really not that bad.

Hahahaahah! That’s funny! My gran loves those. ‘Course, she’s German. You know how they are.

 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 10:47:55

In our environment, we arent worried about suger content, it just tastes good. IIRC, having real sugar mixed with the water speeds up the absorption of the water. This is important when you have to consume more than a gallon a day to stay alive, it’s hard for your gut to process that volume fast enough otherwise. Don’t the MRE’s have labeling that tell the soldiers to drink plenty of water with the food, also? What does your plain water taste like? Is it reverse-osmosis purified?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 06:40:54

Los Angeles Times
Business
MORTGAGES
California’s default rate soars to 9.5%

Delinquencies in June are up sharply from a year ago, when 6% of borrowers were behind on their loans.

By Peter Y. Hong
July 31, 2009

About 1 in 10 Californians with a home loan is now in default, and there’s growing evidence that the mortgage meltdown is spreading to commercial real estate.

The home mortgage delinquency rate — the percentage of borrowers who have missed several payments and are in the first stage of foreclosure — climbed in June to 9.5% in California and 9.9% in Los Angeles County, according to First American CoreLogic.

The staggering number of home mortgage defaults probably will lead to large numbers of foreclosures through at least this year, housing experts say.

“It’s probably a given we’ll see a high number of foreclosures in the next couple of quarters due to the level of defaults plus the recession and jobs lost. There’s plenty more pain to come,” said Andrew LePage, an analyst for real estate research firm MDA DataQuick of San Diego.

Mortgage defaults are more likely to result in foreclosure when borrowers owe more on their homes than they are currently worth — commonly called being “upside down” or “underwater” in industry lingo.

That’s the case for many in California who bought homes during the real estate bubble, often with little or even no money down.

When distressed borrowers have equity, they often can sell the property to cover the outstanding mortgage. For upside-down borrowers, that’s usually not an option.

In recent months, about 60% of California mortgages in default ended up foreclosed, LePage said.

Foreclosures should pick up even more now that various government moratoriums and voluntary foreclosure freezes by lenders have expired.

But LePage said the rate of foreclosures may not reach the record level set last year if lenders increase loan modifications or approve more “short sales,” in which homes are sold for less than their mortgage amounts.

The mortgage delinquency rate in June was up sharply from a year ago, when 6% of California mortgages were delinquent and 5.2% in Los Angeles County were in default.

In May 2009, the state default rate was 9.2% and the Los Angeles County rate was 9.5%, according to First American CoreLogic.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-31 06:55:05

“Mortgage defaults are more likely to result in foreclosure when borrowers owe more on their homes than they are currently worth — commonly called being “upside down” or “underwater” in industry lingo.”

Learning industry secrets like these ultra hip foreclosure terms is quite exhilarating.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-07-31 06:56:10

What I’d like to see are some figures of how far upside down people are relative to their (actual) income. Because I suspect THAT will be a pretty good indicator of people’s inclination and ability to make their lender whole. Let’s face it, nobody want’s to lose their home, or even their investment because they’re a few thousand upside down. But if the difference between what they owe and what the house is worth is greater than their annual income, there’s little reason to not jingle-mail the lender.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:17:56

“But if the difference between what they owe and what the house is worth is greater than their annual income,…”

Consider a few basic points:

1) Many recent CA buyers (say, over the 2000-2006 period) bought as much house as they could on the assumption that “real estate always goes up.”

2) Until recently (2006 or 2007?), lenders were enabling high risk California buyers with one or another type of high LTV loans (100% LTV, interest-only, negative amortization, pick-a-pay, low doc, no doc, etc).

3) Many long-time CA owners mortgaged themselves to the hilt with MEW extraction.

4) Prices at the peak were maybe 10 or more times local incomes in many parts of California.

5) Prices are down from the peak by 40 percent or so.

Conclusions:

I) Given that many CA owners were at or near 100% LTV as of the peak, prices at the peak were on average around 10X incomes in most places and prices are now off by 40 percent, the typical CA homeowner is underwater by about four +/- years worth of pretax income.

II) The above only applies to those fortunate enough to still have a job.

III) You have to keep paying interest to the bank on the amount by which you are underwater up until the point when you walk away.

 
 
Comment by James
2009-07-31 06:58:48

Well. 9.5% sounds like its tracking the unemployment rate pretty closely. So, no shock there.

If we see a divergence over the next year due to the option arm fiasco.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:33:50

“9.5% sounds like its tracking the unemployment rate pretty closely.”

Perhaps, but with a lag?

THE ECONOMY
Job losses mount among California government workers

Mark Boster / Los Angeles Times

Most Los Angeles County Superior Court operations, including those at the courthouse in Long Beach, above, were shut down Wednesday as a once-a-month unpaid furlough program took effect.

Unemployment in the state holds steady at 11.6% in June, but the outlook worsens in the public sector. The state loses 6,700 government jobs in June and continues to furlough workers and cut services.

By Marc Lifsher and Alana Semuels
July 18, 2009

California shed 66,500 jobs in June, and more losses loom as double-digit unemployment spreads to state and local governments, once reliable bastions of employment security.

June’s 11.6% unemployment rate is a post-World War II record. Professional services, construction and trade continue to top the state’s jobless categories.

Comment by james
2009-07-31 09:57:20

Agree here.

There is a lag point between unemployment/underemployment and the default on the mortgage. People are buring through savings trying to hold the assets.

I think CR has done some good posts on the history of this.

This is where the blood starts flowing in the streets. Basically many people are going to burn all their resources trying to hold out, then fall in the governements laps. Only to find out the government doesn’t have much to give.

Takes so long for prices/industries to reform to sop up all the labor and prices stick for so long. Plenty of flipping activity still happening.

Feel like second wave of crushing defaults on Alt A is begining to crest. However, a third wave is now building with all the additional speculative activity. Will be looking at a demographic nightmare, combined with crushing tax policies. California is commiting to long term deflation and default on their pensions and hence services in the future.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 19:09:48

But don’t you think the Fed (and other Working Group parties) just *has* to do all it can to restart inflation in California home prices, denying the policy or playing mum all along the way? How else can they avoid having the banking system collapse due to the unbearable collective weight of California property foreclosures?

 
 
 
 
Comment by arizonadude
2009-07-31 08:02:21

Didnt you hear the recession is over.the tools on cnbc are saying we are in a new bull market.No go buy some stocks so the ceos can get their bonus this year.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:27:03

I heard the recession was over too. And especially today, the MSN news is all about how jobs are coming back, the car program was instant success and now trying to locate more funds…etc.

What the heck>

I think I almost got hoodwinked into a SCAM on CL.
I THINK it is a SCAM.

As some of us do, we skim over CL for rentals etc and found one that was a 3/2 house, $1,000 mo, great area which up till now is around 1400(hopefullly going down). ‘Lady’ says she had to move to PA for her daughters..

oh heck will cut past -easier.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:43:47

Okay, I posted the email I recvd from CL LL. I couldn’t locate this earlier post.
I think it might be a scam. Fill out app and …

What is your take on this youse guys!

I like the house, nabe is one of the ones I want.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-31 12:18:32

FACE TO FACE ONLY….no fill out app….could be identity fraud

and NO mailing checks to a po box either, a real address and a phone number…..

so you can always get a return receipt if they foreclose on the house.

 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 08:26:46

“It’s probably a given we’ll see a high number of foreclosures in the next couple of quarters due to the level of defaults plus the recession and jobs lost”.

Right, but we want to see an increase in jobs lost so we can speed up this “jobless” recovery. It just stands to reason that the more folks out of work the better things will be. I mean if 10% is good wouldn’t 20% be even better? :-)

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-07-31 08:32:12

That and I’m tired of people characterizing short sales as needing lender approval to sell the house for less than you owe. You can always sell for what the market will bear so long as you’re willing and able to pay back all the money that you owe. Instead you need the lender to agree to accept less than you had previously agreed to pay them.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-07-31 12:45:15

It’s not a bad characterization, though; in reality, you are negotiating the purchase with the bank in a short-sale situation.

Because pretty much on one has this funny this called cash that you are talking about. And even those who do see very little reason to bring it to closing to reduce the bank’s loss.

 
 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-07-31 11:42:08

These statistics pretty much verify what I was seeing while rummaging around ForclosureRadar dot com yesterday.

I was really amazed at the increase in forclosure activity in areas which previously seemed immune, i.e. the Hollywood Hills.

 
Comment by so cal lender
2009-07-31 11:42:47

“But LePage said the rate of foreclosures may not reach the record level set last year if lenders increase loan modifications or approve more “short sales,” in which homes are sold for less than their mortgage amounts.”

Problem with loan mods is that I think something like 60% just end up in default again.

Also, I am seeing better deals on short sales than on foreclosures right now. Because a buyer has to wait and wait and wait for the bank to approve a short sale, lots of buyers and agents just skip those listings so there is less competition. Foreclosures are getting multiple offers, and often times go for ridiculous prices. So as long as the market is flooded with short sales, prices are going to continue to fall, and in the market here, short sales are more effective lowering prices than foreclosures

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-07-31 06:45:00

PennyMac debuts with a thud
Mortgage firm run by ex-Countrywide execs flops in IPO. Buying bad loans makes sense, but competition’s tough and banks don’t want to sell on the cheap

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/30/markets/thebuzz/index.htm?section=money_topstories

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:04:57

‘Buying bad loans makes sense, but competition’s tough and banks don’t want to sell on the cheap’

IMO, the market could clear, but Washington got involved, and surprise, surprise, made things worse. All these incentives to keep prices higher have only served to postpone the inevitable. So sure, lenders are hanging on, hoping for a few more bucks while people that want to buy are for the most part waiting it out. This silly game is a waste of money, it’s delaying any recovery for the economy, and it isn’t helping the credit markets one bit. Throw in the govt cheese to buy a house - we have more FBs, and wow, how could DC have messed this up more?

Comment by Northeastener
2009-07-31 07:27:30

Throw in the govt cheese to buy a house - we have more FBs, and wow, how could DC have messed this up more?

That’s easy Ben… DC bailed out the “too big to fail” banks with TARP funds, allowing the bankers to get paid millions in bonuses even though most of the big banks had losses last year. Meanwhile, Joe6pack is getting his hours cut to the bone if he’s lucky enough to be still on the payroll while 500K jobs are lost every month. Not only did DC screw up any chance of a housing and economic recovery by trying to prop up prices, they ensured that their friends on Wall St. still get fat compensation while Main St. gets the shaft. They are bailing out the fat cats with borrowed money from the Chinese.

At all levels, this collapse is the biggest joke I’ve ever been witness to. I’m channelling “The Comedian” from The Watchmen and it isn’t pretty…

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-31 10:05:27

+1. I am on the verge of a Jeff Macke meltdown myself over all of this.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:06:59

That was painful to watch. I think he’s from Minnesota. That explains a few things.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 15:03:35

I’m thinking more like… BIll Hicks.

 
 
Comment by 45north
2009-07-31 10:58:11

They are bailing out the fat cats with borrowed money from the Chinese.

and that money is about to get a whole lot more expensive!
US Gov Yuan Bond Threat
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/willie/2009/0729.html

the American people are about to be sold down the river

Ben please let me post this url!

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 11:25:05

the American people are about to be sold down the river

About to? Where have you been?

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:49:45

row row row your boat, gently down the stream,
merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is gonna suck
after the PTB get through with us.

Is that how it goes!

 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-07-31 07:28:22

When you say “messed up” you assume that the folks in DC actually have the people’s best interest in mind. Usually their interests are in conflict with those that actually wield power over the politicians. As far as *they’re* concerned - DC didn’t mess up; things are going pretty well actually. See PB’s extensive posts above about how lucrative even the backside of this bubble is for Megabank; not to mention the money made on the frontside (which no one seems to mention much - for some reason).

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 07:34:51

Yep, the banks are like a good bookie- they make money no matter which team is winning.

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Comment by Silverback1011
2009-07-31 08:21:21

Or whining.

 
 
 
 
Comment by FP
2009-07-31 07:47:59

Who in their right mind would buy this stock at $20 yet at $10, 5, $2. Why would an Investment bank even gave this a thought at underwriting this company’s IPO. Oh yeah, they get paid a percentage which is milions of dollars. BUt the thing that gets me is that this company just raised close to 300 million dollars. And knowing that the founders have millions of shares vested. they can cash out in less than a year. What a racket. Look for these bums to cash out as soon as they can before the company tanks while the shareholders ride this POS stock to the toilet.

No revenue, no profits. I would short this baby. Buy up distressed mortgages and keep it until values go up? Ya.

Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 08:20:16

Not only no revenue and no profits, but you have to go to the mortgagees one by one and work out a deal with them. Sounds very time consuming and tedious, especially when in some cases PMT will end up with the properties anyways.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 15:35:06

Not to mention trying figure out who REALLY holds the mortgage.

Looking more like a pump-n-dump, ain’t it?

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Comment by eastcoaster
2009-07-31 06:46:30

Inventory in the area I want to buy in is shrinking; prices are flat (and still *just* out of my reach); homes are selling. Feels hopeless.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-07-31 07:02:05

Same thing here eastie. I’m taking August off and enjoying the rest of the summer w/my kids.

There are so many out of staters moving into the area there’s got to be some strong hiring going on somewhere but I’m not sure where.

Funny though of the sellers I’ve run into a decent selection of them are moving back to NYC.

Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 08:57:05

“Funny though of the sellers I’ve run into a decent selection of them are moving back to NYC.”

Interesting you should say that, In my area, east of the Hudson to VT/NH border, the limpwristed girlie men aren’t headed back to NYC/NJ/CT. Some are living down here near NYC to work during the week and go back up north on the weekends.

Apparently times are tough for the Citiots.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:15:32

That made me laugh. I guess I truly am a Village Citiot but I’m definitely not one of the half-man crowd that is so prevalent.

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Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 09:25:25

You’re a cheesehead correct? That’s not remotely close to the vulva driving, jewelry donned sneaker wearing fools from NY/NJ/CT. Besides, I admire your rage.

 
Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 09:29:11

“limpwristed girlie men”

“the half-man crowd that is so prevalent.”

Would that be those metrosexual things I read about on occasion????

 
Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 09:58:50

You aint seen nothing Blano. And some of these guys with Hardly Ablesons? Forget it!!! They look like the Village People. No joking. Wearing earrings, bracelets…. They’ll be wearing makeup and lipstick before long.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:05:51

You’re a cheesehead correct?

You should see my rage now. Calling a Minnesotan a Cheesehead is like calling a Cheesehead a Minnesotan. Mikey, Leigh and Hoz are the Cheeseheads.

 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 10:26:06

Metrosexual has lost all its meaning. It can apply to everything from a guy who knows more about designer women’s shoes than the copy writers at Zappos to a guy who checks to see if the sofa he found abandoned at the curb has visible bugs on it before taking it home.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 11:16:54

Ok….. a Minnesoooooooooooootan. ;)

 
Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 11:18:26

Exeter,

I’m afraid I’d start laughing if I was in some big city and one of those metro types came my way. Just the word “metrosexual” reminds me of the little feminine guy in “Con Air.”

Also still waiting for the chance to use your “does your Village People outfit come with that??” line on someone trying to sell a Harley. :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-07-31 07:02:58

eastcoaster
Seasonal bounce imo, and don’t forget ghost inventory. A false bottom can’t last. Head up, attitude adjustment, it will turn for you. I’m dealing with the same issues in So Ca.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-07-31 07:20:35

That’s exactly what they’re doing…spinning the seasonal bounce.

An interesting confluence of events occurred this spring - new administration, recession exceeded postwar norms, populace conditioned for fast bounce back, funny money flying everywhere.

Let’s revisit this in November.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:52:25

Hoping you are right, Edge.

Cause other than the other day saying the IE is the 4th on list of larges foreclosure areas in the world.
Then the next article states, Everything is coming up Rosesssssssss

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-07-31 07:07:41

Shadow inventory. A lot of people went for the $8,000.
Down here in SE Florida it`s the same thing, but I can almost feel the next shoe ready to drop. Hang in there eastcoaster, you will be rewarded.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:44:58

What makes you think they won’t extend or increase the $8K as needed to maintain housing bubble reflation efforts?

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-07-31 15:28:20

“What makes you think they won’t extend or increase the $8K as needed to maintain housing bubble reflation efforts?”

Nothing. But I do think the 8k made a lot of people jump.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 07:13:13

I have become amazed at the lack of patience that I see exhibited by the people around me and even on this blog. This mess took 25 years to create. Once it started blowing up our clown president and clown congress started throwing every future penny they could find, straight into the abyss. A new clown president and the same clown congress swallowed more vodka and sleeping pills to continue the suicide attempt.

The swallowing of so much “stimulus” has made us feel a little better but has led to a financial world of complete madness. The economy now has the options to have its stomach pumped or slowly pass away. I’m guessing we will wait until the very last minute to face reality in the emergency room.

I know everybody’s just dying to buy but geez. You remind me of 13 year old boys at a junior high school dance trying to get to second base. Slow down. Act like you’ve been there before. Keep your money close to you. Invest only in what you are comfortable with. Let this thing play itself out. As long as we have TARP, TALF, cash for clunkers, expansion of FHA madness, moronic economic policies and moronic economists this thing could take a generation to play out. If you want to buy, buy. If you don’t want to buy then don’t. But quit complaining. If the worst thing in your life is that you are waiting to buy a stupid house then you should be celebrating, not complaining.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-07-31 07:52:41

It does not matter what the price of a house is if you a) found your dream home, where you can live the rest of your life in b) are in a career that won’t be exported and pays well (physician), or c) you have a rule like: You refuse to put more than 1/6 of your net worth into real estate (1/6 equivalent to the entire loan amount plus down payment).

That way you avoid the emotional trap in this business of buying real estate.

I found out just two days ago a colleague of mine got the bug a couple years ago in the Santa Ana area. He hired day laborers to stand in line in neighborhoods to be on the list to buy new homes. Got one at $550,000. Took out a HELOC for $50,000 more. Fast forward to this year and the house is now worth $250,000! Tried to short sale it. Ended up now living in a mobile home.

Greed: It’s not just for wall street fat cats anymore!

Comment by scdave
2009-07-31 08:19:28

Greed: It’s not just for wall street fat cats anymore ??

Greed kills the pig….

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Comment by Silverback1011
2009-07-31 08:27:32

Wow, Bill, now that’s a Tale of Terror. I find West Coast (and East Coast for that matter) prices for 35-year old piles of junk terrifyingly high, and can think that the new construction prices are as bad or worse. I remember when someone posted pictures of a CA trilevel that the realtor had priced at over $ 1m, and she was going door-to-door trying to scare up a buyer. Our poster told her that he wouldn’t consider buying anything priced over $500k, and she was very saddened by that news. I’m sure that his offer price would be even less now. You can get the same house model around here for anywhere from $79,900 to $ 149,000. Yes, we’re in an economically depressed area. But, as mortgages slip into default in CA and other areas due to people being leveraged 50% or more of their gross incomes to pay the darned note, prices will fall like a stone.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:36:41

“…hired day laborers to stand in line…to be on the list to buy new homes.”

That beats out ‘getting stock tips from the shoeshine boy’ as a bubble indicator.

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Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 09:07:48

“It does not matter what the price of a house is if you a) found your dream home, where you can live the rest of your life in b) are in a career that won’t be exported and pays well (physician), or c) you have a rule like: You refuse to put more than 1/6 of your net worth into real estate (1/6 equivalent to the entire loan amount plus down payment).”

We don’t agree on much at all but this one you threw a bullseye. It is precisely the conclusion I’ve come to for me and mine personally.

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Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-07-31 09:09:22

What he said………

At this point, every asset class is being propped up by the government, or Wall Street euphoria, even though a cursory look at the underlying numbers show no recovery soon, and an extremely slow “recovery” if/when it does happen.

I’ve come to the conclusion that we are all going to lose our a$$es, but even that “Titanic deck chair shuffling” is worthwhile, if the chair keeps you afloat longer than everyone else.

(OTOH, staying afloat as long as you can doesn’t work, if the Government keeps on rescuing the survivors, and giving them a life raft and provisions, before throwing them back in the water).

Too much can happen in the next 2-5 years to invest in anything (long term). Sit on cash. (if you have any)

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:57:31

Thanks NYC, sure feel calmed down now.

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-31 16:16:54

I have become amazed at the lack of patience that I see exhibited by the people around me and even on this blog. This mess took 25 years to create.

NYCityBoy, I agree with your sentiments, but there’s a huge amount of frustration precisely because this has been 25 years in the making. Hence the tremendous desire for this to be over sooner.

I’ve had to put up with this crap for most of my adult life. While I’d like to move onto something better sooner, it simply isn’t possible. You can’t unwind this in a few years. The frustration just deepens when I realize I might be close to retirement, still at least a couple of decades away if there still is one then, before this completely unwinds and something more sustainable is possibly in place.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 20:47:55

NYC was hard but neat experience for fact
that if you paid on time, you never got kicked out. Other parts of US, or smaller units or houses, the prop could get sold out from under you. No security.
I get it.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:13:53

‘Feels hopeless’

You’ve been reading/posting for a long time. I realize that the east coast hasn’t had the decline that other markets have had, but still. Did your market have a housing bubble? If so, time is on your side. More than anybody, I wish this had never happened and that people like you could get on with your life. Maybe Barney Frank will read this and get a clue.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-07-31 07:18:47

You are a good man Ben Jones.
When I get my email fixed I will be ordering a T-shirt.
Still have XXL?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:29:06

Thanks JS, yes I’ve got lots of shirts. I’ve been remiss in posting the T-shirt link and getting those out. (I haven’t forgot JG in NYC or Olygal, BTW, just buried in work. I promise extra shirts and whatever to make it up to you.)

So anybody that wants a shirt, just let me know.

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Comment by Rancher
2009-07-31 10:17:15

Ben, do you have some XL talls? Normal T’s
stop at my belly button..

 
 
Comment by Northeastener
2009-07-31 07:32:40

You are a good man Ben Jones.

Indeed, Ben is the best.

I’m game for a t-shirt as well, XL if you have it…

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Comment by X-philly
2009-07-31 08:31:11

I’m in the same market, am somewhat impatient over the slowness of the decline, but am thrilled anticipating the price slide to come.

Currently there are under the radar bargains to be had - foreclosures and short sales mainly - but finding them requires connections with realtors, lawyers, County courthouse personnel, etc. and a lot of free time to research the market.
In short you have to have a really attentive ear to the ground.

I’ve just completed my third move in four years, not happy about moving so much. However the extra time has given me a chance to really think about where I’ll finally settle down. When the time and price are right, I’ll be able to make a permanent move based on careful consideration rather than a sense of urgency or just doing what’s expected - (buying a nice condo for example). I can understand eastcoaster’s sense of hopelessness, for she has a young child at home. If I had children and wanted them to have a yard so they could have a swing set, pets, etc. I’d probably be feeling blue as well.

But because I’m an old head I’m just sitting here grinning like a shark waiting for FB blood in the water.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 11:41:35

Can’t relocate my other posting..I think this might be a scam?
CL yesterday. Paragraph 2 makes me uneasy.
Good house in good nabe.
********************************** what do you guys think?

Hello

Thanks for your response regarding my property listed on craigslist,firstly i would like to inform you that the property is
still very much available for move in but due to the disability problem my daughter is having, we currently not present at the moment and that is why i am listing the property on craigslist. and we are seeking someone we can trust and dependable to occupy the property.

Due to our absence at the moment,my husband and i are currently located in NEWKENSINGTON, PA where my daughter is responding to treatment in one of the hospital and due to the inability to get a good Realtor management to help us with the property my husband and i had to leave with the keys and document of the house when leaving. If you will be the right tenant to our house, we will get the keys and documents of the house sent to you via courier services as soon as all terms are settled.
We are here for the proper treatment to cure my daughter illness and from here we would be relocating to new place of our own.i would like to inform you that utilities are included in the rent and the lease term is a minimum of 1 years lease and a maximum of 3 years lease term,the total requirement for move in is a month upfront of $1000 and a security deposit of $600 and a credit score above $600 with good rental reference from previous landlord,kindly let me know when you would like to start a lease.

you can easily drive by the property and contact me back if you have any question nor statement and i have also attached the application form and the interior pictures in the message,kindly get the application filled so that we can proceed as soon as possible.

here is the address you can drive by…..

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-31 12:23:30

Ill post it again:

FACE TO FACE ONLY….no fill out app….could be identity fraud
and NO mailing checks to a po box either, a real address and a phone number…so you can always get a return receipt if they foreclose on the house.

 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 13:14:46

Did you see that they said the utilities are included? How many legit landlords want to cover however much gas/oil/ectricity the renters happen to use? Forget it. Whoever sent this is doesn’t own the house. Not at all.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:36:32

Update, friend pulled the profile on the address.
Full name on email isn’t the same as owner of deed.
I did double check the email.
It is that same story, if it sounds to good to be true, it might be. But is that story about the man finding a mazzeratti (?) for sale for a $1. and he goes to see if it is for real. It is, according to the story, it is a divorce and the wife was told by H to sell and he will take half. So the driver hands over a dollar and gets pink slip and drives off. False or true?

Anyway, I suspect, that although someone has their name all over email, that if it doesn’t match, push away from the table.

Ben, are you driving through the desert on the way home?

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:38:03

The utilities are also for a jacuzzi/pool, so I don’t think the owner is offering this house for real. Heck, then there would be jacuzzi parties daily, nightly, Spring break.

 
Comment by monilynn
2009-07-31 18:34:23

Have seen this before, definite scam

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 20:53:47

Update.
The house has 4 sale sign, the gardener said owner died yr ago, it is legit. As for utilities and gardening, they would have to pay for it to keep it in its current state. Otherwise, was a big big yard, big older pool/jacuzzi. Nice views.
New law on the books in CA. July 1. If someone lists on CL or they are renting/selling on their own, they have to divulge they are licensed agents, which the CL lister did not.
Oh and added Perks. 1 outside shower stall
AND
a URINAL outside.

What a deal!

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 09:17:20

” I realize that the east coast hasn’t had the decline that other markets have had, but still. Did your market have a housing bubble?”

Yeah we did. Not for your benefit Ben but to establish some truth about this.

Folks who don’t understand or have never lived in a post-industrial geography need to wrap their minds around this simple fact…… Housing prices decline in areas where formerly roaring manufacturing centers shuttered. Prices fell, nominally in many cases from 1980-1996. Given the fact that NOTHING changed from an economic fundamental perspective, what beside the global credit market can you attribute to prices doubling and tripling in these areas? You can’t. You make something up, you can throw realtard BS all day but that won’t change reality.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:22:28

Keep in mind that many of the interventions currently in play are intended to right the economy by essentially reflating the housing bubble. This is clearly an exercise in futility, but it will have the effect of prolonging the correction and delaying the time until when houses are reasonably affordable and buying one would make financial sense for the typical American household.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-07-31 07:46:15

“…when houses are reasonably affordable and buying one would make financial sense for the typical American household.”

“A home for every income…just sign here, here, & here…then initial the next 28 pages…” O.K., now let’s go over the “impound account”… ;-)

Comment by scdave
2009-07-31 08:25:19

Hwy;…what percentage of things is assigned to: “Just showing up…ready…” ??

99.999999999 % ??

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Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2009-07-31 10:45:05

:-)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:29:02

“Inventory in the area I want to buy in is shrinking”

My observation is that inventory is fragmenting more than shrinking. For instance, the San Diego County MLS shows fewer than 10,000 used homes currently for sale, but the foreclosure dot com web site lists over 40,000 homes for San Diego County. There are also generally more listings by zip code on the ForeclosureTown dot com web site than on the MLS. I am not sure what other nontraditional listing sites are available these days (maybe Craig’s List, local newspaper online listings, ForSaleByOwner dot com, etc), but I strongly suggest that you should not make the error of assuming the MLS provides a complete inventory of homes on or soon to be on the market.

 
Comment by so cal lender
2009-07-31 08:54:31

Same here Eastcoaster. Inventory is way down, and people are paying stupid prices again. Bidding wars are back. I come to this blog for sanity because what I am seeing in the market is making me sick. I just keep repeating dead cat bounce, dead cat bounce, dead cat bounce over and over again as I am seeing purchase contracts come in for pieces of crap homes at ridiculous prices. Buyers are getting frantic right now trying to get an offer accepted and a deal closed before Nov.30 when the $8,000 credit expires. I think that has a lot to do with the uptick in activity right now. How many first time buyers will be left that will be able to qualify for a mortgage at the price levels we are still at in Los Angeles area come Dec. 1? I think most of the qualified first time buyers are buying now to get the tax credit. So I expect that come Dec 2, whether or not they extend the credit there is going to be a significantly lower level of activity as this tax credit has brought out many buyers who would have otherwise waited to buy.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:07:04

“Buyers are getting frantic right now trying to get an offer accepted and a deal closed before Nov.30 when the $8,000 credit expires.”

They must be pretty stupid. Why would anyone with more than a pea-sized brain assume this hair-of-the-dog measure would not be extended, or that something similar would be put in its place? Are they assuming the PTB would let the market cave in at this point, after all that has already been done to prop it up?

Comment by so cal lender
2009-07-31 09:21:46

“They must be pretty stupid. Why would anyone with more than a pea-sized brain assume this hair-of-the-dog measure would not be extended, or that something similar would be put in its place?”

Unfortunately people are pretty stupid and more times than not fail to see the whole picture.

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 09:04:55

Just wait it out through September. This fall the CRE shoe is going to drop HARD as firms try to unload bedfore the end of the fiscal year and thats going to crush the market all over again. (where’s Yogi Berra when you need him?)

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-07-31 10:36:41

“where’s Yogi Berra when you need him?”

I love that guy. What a wit.
“This is like deja vu all over again.”

“You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I’m not hungry enough to eat six.”

“If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.”

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 11:25:55

Yogi Berra’s on my living room wall. He’s in a photo with my grandfather, who was a baseball writer.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-07-31 09:28:10

After the 1980s housing bubble burst following 1987, it took two years for prices to start falling (they fell when adjusted for inflation), seven years to reach reality (we bought in 1994), and ten years to hit bottom.

I know the wait can be frustrating, particularly with a spouse and kids, but overpaying is a life changing event, and not for the better. I saw it happen.

What you have on the East Coast is fewer people with exploding mortgages, and more who can just hold out for 2005 prices. But they can’t hold out forever. The woman who sold me her house accepted the offer nine months after I made it. Or her daughter did — she was 97 and could no longer live on her own, and had moved away. She died not too long afterward.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 11:11:28

“After the 1980s housing bubble burst following 1987, it took two years for prices to start falling (they fell when adjusted for inflation), seven years to reach reality (we bought in 1994), and ten years to hit bottom.”

Extrapolating to the present episode, are you calling for a bottom around 2016 or so for coastal California? Because so far as I am aware, price declines did not even show up out here until after spring 2006.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 12:09:10

Jan 94 is when I bought foreclosure in semi prime area of Palmsprings for $70k. 3 yrs later you could still buy in prime areas for around 250k which shot to over 1mill in boom, now settling down to 6’s

 
 
Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-07-31 09:28:31

Sh*t I’d love to be a bitter renter right now! My crapshack needs a new air conditioner and a new roof. I bought my 40 year old rotting box back in ‘00 so I’m still ahead of the bubble prices for eastern NC but I’m fully prepared for the value to fall back below my purchase price of 160k. And lets not get into the big bulls eye I’ve got on my back for the tax increases that are coming down the pipeline. Oh yeah don’t forget about wind & hail insurance! That only went up over 30% this year. And what have I got planned for tomorrow? A date with the lawnmower and 90 degree heat and humidity. Good times! Good times!

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:35:09

I would say, “better you than me” but that would be mean. So I will just say, “I’m glad I’m not you”. Thank you for sharing. I just don’t understand the, “I want to buy so badly” crowd. I’ve done that and I have no desire to do it again. Yes, I know it’s different with kids, blah, blah, blah.

Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-07-31 09:48:13

I couldn’t convince the wife to sell a few years ago. We’ve got 3 kids and I really love were I live, less than a block from the ICW and our neighborhood has it’s own dock/boat ramp and NO homemoaners association! But I could easily find a similar house to rent and still not have the headaches involved with ownership. Renting a house from the bank is the last thing I’d be looking to do for a long, long , long time.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 12:10:38

I dont’ want to buy ” so badly”.

when the time is right, I want to buy ’so goodly’ or NOT AT ALL.

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Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 09:39:02

“And what have I got planned for tomorrow? A date with the lawnmower and 90 degree heat and humidity. Good times! Good times!”

Maybe not. Pull the rope and see if that stamped piece of manufactured $hit starts. :)

Good honest rant though brother…

Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-07-31 11:35:58

I’ve put cutting the grass off for over a week. If I don’t get it cut my neighbors are going to drop off a couple of sheep and let them start grazing. Come to think of it, that’s not a bad idea!

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 12:13:08

Muddy, it might be the ‘green’ thing to do and will help out a farmer with his overhead.
Actually that is a terrific idea. Would love to see goats/sheep in the green space in this gated community.
Save for the coyotes that have taken residence.

Guess food supply, little bunnies are in huge supply this summer.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-07-31 09:32:38

Sounds like Maryland.

All we have are different flavors of junk for sale at inflated prices.

Here’s my favorite one so far:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/120-Bliss-Ln_Glen-Burnie_MD_21060_1109404500

Check out those skilled photos: who takes a photo of a toilet when trying to sell a house? And I love the trash tossed all over the kitchen floor. This crumbling nightmare can be yours for only $161,000… except it has a ground lease, so it is never really yours!

Seriously, what are these people smoking? I bet they can’t imagine why this wreck hasn’t sold after since they priced it under $300,000 AND took photos - what more could a person want?

If I wanted a bigger laugh, I could start looking over the listings in Baltimorgue, but that’s just too easier - way too many targets for humor there!

Yep, now is a “great time to buy or sell house” - hahahahaha!!!

Comment by eastcoaster
2009-07-31 09:58:10

Those photos are unreal. It almost looks like it has to be some weird joke.

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 10:00:07

Oh but THIS one’s MUCH better. It’s been sanitized and everything. Just look. The blue ribbon PROVES it.

191,000. Yeah…..right.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/1314-Gatwick-Rd_Glen-Burnie_MD_21061_1108846639

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:09:37

Is that acoustical tile?

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-07-31 12:18:49

Yeah, what’s up with the office ceiling? People are nuts.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-31 12:29:08

maybe airplanes constantly flying over da houze?

——————————————
Is that acoustical tile?

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 12:15:16

LOVE the blue ribbon on the toilet.
old motel tactic.

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Comment by Kim
2009-07-31 10:36:54

Wow… I can’t believe an agent put that up on the internet. I assume the front of the house must be a real disaster since they chose to post a photo of the toilet instead.

“who takes a photo of a toilet when trying to sell a house?”

When we sold our house a few years back, a competition’s listing featured a photo of the side view of a toilet. Immediately behind it was a front view of a cloths dryer. Yes… it appeared you’d have to straddle the toilet to load the dryer. Wasn’t the agent nice to point out that drawback to potential buyers?

 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 10:52:09

I wouldn’t drink a glass of water from that house, never mind buy it.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-31 12:48:54

Hahaah! Nice.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 16:01:28

The stupid, it burns!

No really, this HAS to be joke. Right?

 
 
Comment by Kim
2009-07-31 10:25:34

“Inventory in the area I want to buy in is shrinking; prices are flat (and still *just* out of my reach); homes are selling. Feels hopeless.”

Hang in there, Eastcoaster! I feel the same sometimes, but I know all is not as it seems. I just checked Realtytrac, and there are a lot more houses listed than when I checked a couple months ago. A very tony town to my East has oodles of short sales in very high end homes. I’m seeing a growing number of ghost houses in my area and I expect to spot more and more when the snow starts falling.

None of this has hit the MLS yet. When it does… down, down, down the prices will go!

Comment by speedingpullet
2009-07-31 11:21:33

If you want to see some truly appaling UHS photos of ‘des reses’
check out Its Lovely! I’ll Take It! (need to google it, as links are verboten to the Filter Gods, IIRC?)

Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 16:06:44

I think I’ve hurt myself. Cracked a rib I think.

HOLY COW!

Great find!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 16:16:35

Just type lovelylisting into your browser. Then marry it to one of those dot-com thingies.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 16:26:17

Say, that writing style seems suspicious like someone I’ve met. Hmmm…

Let me think about this for a minute…

 
 
 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-01 01:48:22

eastcoaster,

The same thing is going on here.

One really great thing about the HBB is that we can share what’s going on around the country (and world). If it’s happening everywhere — and that seems to be the case — then there is more to it than “it’s different here.”

From what I can see, there is a lot of speculation in the RE market. We know what happened the last time we saw that.

We just need to accept that it is what it is for now, and it probably won’t be albe to last for the long-term.

Throw around some really low-ball offers, and let them either accept or decline, then move on. We’ve all been renting for all these years, another year or two (or more?) can’t hurt us.

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-31 06:54:41

Burn or bulldoze:

http://www.rgj.com/article/20090729/NEWS/90730001

“Fire officials estimated it could take days before investigators know what caused a massive fire Wednesday night to sweep through a vacant South Reno luxury apartment complex under construction that destroyed 22 of 36 buildings.”

“The magnitude of this fire was so large that it’s what firefighters call a ‘career fire’,” Frady said. “You only see a fire like this maybe once in your career if you’re a firefighter.”

“Officials with the complex developer, A.G. Spanos Cos said Thursday they plan to rebuild portions of the high-end facility. Certificates of occupancy had been issued for at least four buildings, and people were scheduled to move in next month, Frady said.”

Maybe it got hit by an upside down lightning bolt (Spanos is the owner of the Chargers).

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-07-31 07:52:38

“…that destroyed 22 of 36 buildings.”

simple math: 36-22 = 14 …needed for 100% occupancy = 4 … balance remaining = 10… time needed for repair & 100% occupancy of final units = until insurance money runs out. ;-)

 
Comment by scdave
2009-07-31 08:31:31

Spanos made his dough in Stockton Ca., real estate…He is a pretty big hitter… Interesting that they see a market for high end apartments in Reno…Or maybe I should say they “previously” saw a market for high end apartments…

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-07-31 09:55:39

Truely

I fly through Reno every winter to go snowboarding in Tahoe and there IS no “high end” in reno. It’s like Vegas 25 years ago but tackier. Reno 911 isn’t comedy, its documentary ;-)

Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 11:04:14

Reno 911 isn’t comedy, its documentary

And it’s filmed in L.A.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-07-31 06:55:58

Morning,

If y’all don’t mind, I’d like to tie up a few loose threads from yesterday and last month in this one, because my comments have sometimes been misunderstood. My approach is very simple but it doesn’t fit neatly into the old red/blue state dichotomy, so I need to explain.

Conservatives are correct in saying that an economy reasonably free of government meddling is the best and only route out of the financial crisis. Liberals are correct in saying that executive compensation is completely out of control and that corporations are guilty of predatory, discriminatory, parasitic, and generally abusive behavior.

What conservatives don’t get is that corporations– especially large ones– are NOT free market entities, but rather cartels that are much closer to government agencies in nature. What liberals don’t get is that the answer is not more “regulation” aimed at corporations, because the past 100 years have seen an astronomical increase in the number of regulations, while corporate abuses have only morphed, metastasized and gotten worse.

The unifying insight is that corporations are first, last and always creatures of the government. And an economy which is dominated, as ours is, by large corporations is little better than a socialist state.

The other key point is that “corporate interests” are really the interests of the executives in maintaining their outsized pay packages and protected positions. Liberals sometimes say that corporations put “profits before people”, but in reality, corporate executives care as little about enriching shareholders as they do about customers, employees, or neighbors. They care only about THEMSELVES. Morally and ethically, we must always “pierce the corporate veil” and look at the real interests of the ones in power, not the imaginary ones of a legal fiction. One poster here about a year ago nailed it when he said “Corporations exist to pay the top people.”

If we believe in a free market, and if corporation laws and corporate charters are themselves a gross distortion of that free market, then logically the only remedy is a complete REPEAL of these laws and charters. In other words, the real response to corporate abuses is: don’t regulate, ELIMINATE. What we need is a return to the “Pro-business, anti-corporate” philosophy that prevailed in the early 19th century.

As a side note to ET: I would never suggest granting eminent domain, unlimited taxation or regulation powers to any private business. These powers, in ANY hands, are travesties in a nation that claims to value freedom and equality. My point was that government should not be operating in private sectors such as mail delivery and transportation.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:41:13

‘corporation laws and corporate charters are themselves a gross distortion of that free market’

I used to have this years long debate with one of my brothers about free markets and corporations. The conclusion I came to was that the exemption from liabilty for stockholders should be done away with. But, then corporations would exist in an entirely different universe if that was the case.

Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 10:57:56

exemption from liabilty for stockholders should be done away with. But, then corporations would exist in an entirely different universe if that was the case. Limited liability is the key reason for corporations to exist, IMO. Think of incorporated colleges & hospitals. There is a socially valid reason for them to exist, and for them to have limited liability to whoever their “stockholders” are. Not so much for Sacks of Gold, Inc., I must say.

Comment by polly
2009-07-31 12:46:38

Most, though by no means all, colleges and hospitals are tax exept organiztions. States have separate corporate laws for non-profits. They are not stock corporations and thus have no real owners. The managers of such organizations are not allowed to use them for private gain as defined in the law. In return they get a lot of tax breaks, though not on all taxes - for example, they still must pay certain employment taxes.

My recollection is that the corporate form is supposed to have the following benefits:
1) limited liability
2) perpetual existance (doesn’t cease to exist when the partners die)
3) centralized, professional management
4) ease of raising capital (mostly a result of 1 and 2).

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Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:08:28

Most, though by no means all, colleges and hospitals are tax exept organiztions. but corporations with limited liability none the less, e.g., Harvard, the oldest corporation in North America, going back to 1650 or so. I doubt you could successfully sue any individual for damages caused by Harvard U, which was my point about limited liability. If members of the board of a corporation were liable as individuals for misdeeds of their corporation, I doubt they would agree to serve the corporation in that capacity. Could any corporation exists without real individuals who pull the levers.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-07-31 14:29:21

My recollection is that the corporate form is supposed to have the following benefits: …

This is a good textbook summary. But we have to look beyond this and say, benefits to whom? To which individuals? Certainly limited liability is not a benefit to anyone trying to collect on a bond or a tort claim. It is true that corporations can sometimes create impressive things — skyscrapers, ocean liners, etc.– which would probably be difficult or impossible to do with smaller business entities. But we have to ask whether these things are worth the accompanying social costs and corruption.

 
 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-07-31 15:34:29

Think of incorporated colleges & hospitals. There is a socially valid reason for them to exist,

It’s true that the abuses haven’t been as severe in non-profits, but they certainly happen– think of United Way, or soaring college tuition and university president salaries, etc. But for me, the distinction between for-profit and not-for-profit corps is not as significant as is commonly thought. The biggest problem with any corp. is separation of ownership and control. You have these vast pools of assets, legally/nominally owned by one set of people but controlled by another set. The potential for abuse is just tremendous.

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Comment by oxide
2009-07-31 07:52:16

I had a longer reply to you, but you know what, I give up. You move to Somalia, and I’ll move to Sweden.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-07-31 08:23:35

+1 :-)

I had a feeling that genetics & temperature would find a argument! ;-)

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 08:25:49

+ a gazillion

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-01 02:21:28

LOL, oxide! :)

I tend to lean a bit on the socialist side, but like what LVG had to say about corporations.

**IF** we are going to have corporation protection from liability, then the executives/BOD are not taking any personal risks. If they’re not taking any personal risks, then they are not deserving of these tremendous personal rewards.

Either they take personal responsibility (and it must not be extinguishable through BK or other “get out of jail free” procedures), or they make a salary that’s commensurate with what they are actually contributing to the company.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-07-31 08:14:06

“…They care only about THEMSELVES. Morally and ethically,…”

(Hwy often ponders why he finds himself reading Thoreau in the Autumn…)

And like Diogenes…wonders when next he’ll find a group of “conscientious” men running a “corporation”…

Weary, tired, and with a just a wick of light left in his lantern,… Diogenes falls asleep, naked in his bathtub home…in the morning…a meeting with Alexander the Great.

(According to one story,[5] Diogenes went to the Oracle at Delphi to ask for its advice, and was told that he should “deface the currency,” and Diogenes, realizing that the oracle meant that he should deface the political currency rather than actual coins, traveled to Athens and made it his life’s goal to deface established customs and values.) :-)

Comment by andy
2009-07-31 10:11:55

Diogenes
I am curious. I looked up Diogenes on Wiki and came up with a list of people. Are there any good books about him that I could pick up at the library? thx

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 12:22:06

I believe the major ingredient in corps and monopolies is that the law changed and allowed corporations to be considered as PERSONS, not corporations. So they are fully protected.

That law should immediately be rescinded. imho

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 13:52:41

What’s worse, corporate personhood was in the headnote to a 19th century Supreme Court decision in a railroad case. Not the actual body of the opinion, but the headnote.

That, to me, puts the whole concept on shaky ground.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:41:46

yep, it was one slip of the wording into the headline and it got by.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-07-31 15:42:10

Thanks for the (serious) responses so far, and I would also like to add a big thanks to ecofeco, who (I believe it was) directed my attention to the book “Gangs of America”. This book contains a very well researched and disturbing history of corporations and corporate law starting in the Middle Ages, through pre-Civil War America, up to the present day. I recommend it highly to anyone interested in this subject.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-07-31 16:47:24

You are very welcome. I’m glad you read it. Now you know why I’m kinda cranky. :wink:

“Gangs of America” is HIGHLY recommended by me. There is absolutely no spin in the book until the very last chapter, which is not required reading. The rest is excellent research and extremely readable history.

It’s a very well written and entertaining book. It’s also available on-line for free at the website of the same name. I use the PDF for reference all the time.

 
 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-07-31 07:08:33

I created a “friends of the housing bubble blog” facebook group. It should be visible from the facebook search. I don’t intend to post much on there, just as a resource for facebook users to join and maybe find other locals to do meetups or some such.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:23:28

‘do meetups or some such’

I’m glad you brought this up. I expect to be in Carlsbad CA (Pizza Port like the last time) on the 3rd and in Orange County on the 4th of August, so if anyone is around we could have some pizza and chat. Oh, Hwy 50, I guess I’m saying I need that OC meetup place you mentioned when you were in Flagstaff…

Comment by Ann Gogh
2009-07-31 07:36:41

sounds good ben. I’ll be there and I’ll bring my donation check so I can get back in the club. what time?

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:51:30

Keep your checkbook in your purse Ann, it’ll be good enough to see you again. Maybe we can drive around once more in San Marino/Pasadena, and look at your home town and how the market has changed since last year.

It’s gonna be in the evening, as I have to drive out from Arizona, and from SD to OC the 4th. I realize this is short notice, but I’m committed to these dates and would like to see you guys.

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Comment by Ann Gogh
2009-07-31 07:57:38

Ben,if you need anything please let me know so I can help. I will bring my cameras so get your summer haircuts everybody!

 
Comment by InMontana
2009-07-31 08:30:19

Ooh, ooh, I have family in San Marino..I notice there seems to be fewer sales and NODs right in that area. Are Asian immigrants still keeping that place afloat? It is awfully nice there, considering.

 
Comment by InMontana
2009-07-31 08:31:46

…considering it’s in SoCal, that is…

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-07-31 08:56:11

West Coasters have all the fun….

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 08:42:40

And, if any of you rouges ;-) ever come to Tucson, let’s have a meetup.

Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 09:23:36

You coming up to Ann Arbor again this year Slim??

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 11:28:11

Matter of fact, I am. Will be there for U-M Homecoming at the end of September.

 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 12:26:36

Would love to find out info/location for both dates.

That would be terrific.

 
 
Comment by Ann Gogh
2009-07-31 07:39:06

could you give a link to your facebook page?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 07:54:53

Ann,

Haven’t seen you post for some time. Hope you’re doing well.

Comment by Ann Gogh
2009-07-31 08:43:10

Thank you, Baygirl. I look great but I am still recovering from PB’s articles about tax money going to wall st fat catz. Hopefully when we meet with Ben we can iron out what has been happening since last summer. Then I will know how i’ve been doing. sdgreg, pb, gh, saladgirl, renter, bearRE, etc.

Uh oh I smell fire over by camp pendleton plus sirens!

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Comment by eastcoaster
2009-07-31 07:40:14

Nice. I’ll be joining that.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-07-31 07:42:47

So your not so much east, I take it?

Comment by eastcoaster
2009-07-31 09:02:09

No, I mean the facebook group - not the meet up. I WISH I could meet up with all of you, believe me. I’m sitting just outside Philadelphia.

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Comment by Ann Gogh
2009-07-31 10:08:21

Who thinks they can make Ben’s convention in Carlsbad?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 11:32:26

Hey, eastcoaster, where are you just outside of Philly? I grew up near West Chester, PA.

 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-07-31 12:12:15

Me.

Although OC is closer.

 
Comment by eastcoaster
2009-07-31 13:57:35

Slim,

I’m in the Willow Grove/Hatboro area - bordering Montgomery and Bucks Counties.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-01 02:27:00

Come to the SD gathering, RE refugee. It’d be good to see you again. :)
—————–

Hi, Ann!

Good to see you posting here again, too. See you on Monday!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:39:12

Are the Financial Times writers clueless or something? How many times do I have to repeat it: THE STOCK MARKET ALWAYS GOES UP.

Wall St set to stumble after GDP report
By Michael Mackenzie in New York
Published: July 31 2009 14:07 | Last updated: July 31 2009 14:07

US equity index futures staged a sharp reversal early on Friday and were currently projecting a lower start on Wall Street, after a government report showed that the economy contacted less than expected during the second quarter.

The data also cast a pall over European stocks which had been trading higher prior to the report’s release. In overnight trade Asian stocks rallied sharply, with Japan and Australia closing at a new high for the year.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:49:24

Stocks hop after early drop
U.S. ECONOMY
Down just 1%

Gross domestic product contracts at a smaller rate in the second quarter. The fall is less than economists had forecast.

• Employment costs downshift
• Slowdown’s easing: Obama

Investors extend stocks’ rally into the final trading session of what’s been the best July for the Dow in 20 years. Blue chips Disney and Chevron draw early scrutiny.

 
Comment by Austin_Martin
2009-07-31 09:04:04

What bothers me is that this is a lie.

If the expectations were that the economy would shrink 1.5% from the reported first quarter number, then the gdp was lower than expected.

Expectations
first quarter gdp was -5.5% from the fourth quarter(this as the base of 100 dollars or whatever unit you wish for gdp)
second quarter gdp was expected -1.5%, or 98.5 dollars

reported today
first quarter gdp was -6.5% from the the fourth quarter, or 98.9 dollars.
second quarter gdp was -1% from the first quarter, or 97.05 dollars.

Therefore the second quarter gdp was 1.45 dollars lower than estimates.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:09:52

Focus on the current change in GDP, not the absolute level, and you will feel much happier (and eager to snap up stock and housing investment bargains).

 
 
Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-07-31 12:20:06

Okay, I’ve been thinkin’ about all this economists expectations thingy. Who are the economists and who’s payin’ them?

It’s like when the analysts were pumping stocks the wall street firms were trying to sell.

Now it seems the economists are setting their expectations so that it appears the economy is doing better than “expected”.

What a load of crap.

Opps. sorry the crap word just busted out of my keyboard. It seems to have a mind of its own. I’ll sit down and have a beer with it. This could be a teaching thingy like the Prez sez.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 13:55:34

Why do the Financial Times writers have such a hard time understanding this basic concept:

THE STOCK MARKET ALWAYS GOES UP.

Buy now, or get priced out forever.

Jul 31, 2009, 4:16 p.m. EST
U.S. stocks gain; best monthly Dow rise since ‘02

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks eked out mild gains by the close of trading Friday but still posted their best month in years, as company earnings outlooks bolstered investor enthusiasm for a global economic recovery.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:40:13

Financial Times
US recession now longest on record
By Alan Rappeport in New York
Published: July 31 2009 13:51 | Last updated: July 31 2009 13:51

The US economy continued to shrink in the second quarter making this recession the longest on record, but the more moderate decline lifted hopes that government stimulus measures could be loosening the grip of the downturn.

Preliminary commerce department figures showed on Friday that US gross domestic product declined by an annualised rate of 1 per cent in the second quarter after declining by a revised 6.4 per cent during the first three months of the year. While the contraction was less severe than the in the previous three quarters, it was the first time since official figures started in 1947 that the US has suffered four consecutive periods of declining output.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 07:52:08

And the stock market is up because of this great news ;)

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-31 09:00:23

Well now that its officially the longest on record, surely just that fact alone guarantees that the recovery will be here shortly, right?

Kinda like 10% off in housing MUST be the bottom.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:42:16

Glasnost explained?

Financial Times
Bernanke explains Fed’s new openness
By Edward Luce in Washington
Published: July 30 2009 19:19 | Last updated: July 30 2009 21:41

Ben Bernanke has explained his decision to turn the normally secretive US Federal Reserve into something of an open house, saying his unusually large number of recent public appearances are the result of the “extraordinary” times the country faces.

The Fed chairman has turned up at everything from a 60 Minutes television interview to a Kansas City town hall session over the past few weeks, prompting some to wonder if he is trying to ensure he is re­appointed when his four-year term ends in January.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 07:43:40

Dumb question of the day:

Given the open appearance that BB is campaigning for office, is there any prospect the Fed Chairmanship will be converted to an elected post at some point in the foreseeable future?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 07:53:51

Do you really want to open that can of worms?

 
Comment by bink
2009-07-31 08:11:50

Great, then we’d get Fed Chairman Carrot Top.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 08:39:37

LOL He’d make a refreshing change. And could hardly do a worse job.

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Comment by X-philly
2009-07-31 08:18:40

Ben Bernanke has explained his decision to turn the normally secretive US Federal Reserve into something of an open house,

Then why are they fighting Fox’s request for information?

“A U.S. judge on Thursday denied a bid by Fox News Network LLC seeking details from the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve about the central bank’s loans to companies affected by the financial crisis.”

Today on reuters site, Industries link, then TechMediaTelcom
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-31 08:22:11

ok that link went through right away totally by accident -

I eliminated the http colon slashslash from my post, but the Genie of the Blog filled it in and the link went right through.
(minus the last part of the link)
/idUSN3037958120090730

Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 10:16:13

X’s Link from reuters story

(Thanks desertdweller)

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Comment by palmetto
2009-07-31 08:51:43

“A U.S. judge on Thursday denied a bid by Fox News Network LLC seeking details from the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve about the central bank’s loans to companies affected by the financial crisis.”

And there you have the state of the corrupt “justice” system in the US.

 
Comment by GeorgeSalt
2009-07-31 09:04:53

So that’s where they buried Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 11:08:52

Who gives a flying —- about this non-story?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:18:27

“Fox’s request for information”

The Fed is clearly above the law, and does not have to honor anyone’s request for information (even the Congress’s).

Comment by Leighsong
2009-07-31 21:48:50

Er…P’Bear -

Fed and Congress in the same sentence is…er…well -

An Oxymoron?

Leigh :)

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 08:44:28

I predict that at this time next year, Heli-Ben will be back with the Princeton University economics department.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-07-31 09:00:08

I listened to his PBS appearance on my drive up to a datacenter in Northern Virginia/DC. He sounded pretty darn nervous! The questions were pretty timid, of course. He sounds younger than he looks. Wonder if he still plays saxophone.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:19:40

“saxophone”

Do you some how have him confused with Alan Greenspan or Bill Clinton?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:23:38

Greenspan was a masculine clarinet player.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:43:18

“A gentleman is a man who knows how to play the saxophone, but doesn’t.”

Robert Marcellus

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:27:58

Do you some how have him confused with Alan Greenspan or Bill Clinton?

And how fitting since these guys all blow.

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-07-31 13:08:08

Wikipedia says Bernanke was all-star saxophone player.

His past seems pretty humble.

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Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 11:02:25

He sounded pretty darn nervous! I’ve watched too many of BB’s TV appearances. He always sounds nervous. I think he’s got stage fright. Myself, I’d start to get nervous if he ever looked calm & collected while speaking on TV.

 
 
 
Comment by bink
2009-07-31 08:15:50

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/31/AR2009073101173.html?hpid=topnews

Michigan lawmakers were holding an emergency meeting Friday morning in the office of Sen. Carl Levin, trying to find a way to continue the federal government’s week-old “cash for clunkers,” program, which has proven so popular with consumers that it is almost out of cash.

Handing money out to car dealerships looks like a huge invitation to fraud to me. I hope they have someone who can investigate potential abuses of this system, though I can’t imagine whose responsibility that would be. I know this program must be popular, but this is ridiculous.

Comment by Kim
2009-07-31 08:55:09

“Almost” out of cash? Sounds like its all gone (and then some) to me. Should be interesting to see who gets stiffed, besides taxpayers in general, of course.

Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 09:19:14

With all the trillions being bandied about, I’m sure they’ll come up with a few billion more for this. Sounds like they’re already going to.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:11:04

They have 2 billion burning a hole in their pockets. Of course the senators from Michigan are pushing for it. They are just pulling more demand from the future.

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Comment by Blano
2009-07-31 11:06:02

“They are just pulling more demand from the future.”

EXACTLY.

Senators AND the Representatives, btw. A local radio report this morning said Rep. Candace Miller was the one who thought up this program. Add her to the growing list of GOP’ers I’ll never vote for.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-31 15:13:33

Add her to the growing list of GOP’ers I’ll never vote for.

Why, Blano, at this rate one of these days you’re gonna wake up and realized you’ve edged over that line and have done gone and becomed a…a…a Democrat.*

*gasp! *

 
 
 
Comment by GH
2009-07-31 10:15:37

The “Tax Payers” got stiffed when money was loaned out to folks who could not afford to repay against over-inflated assets. At this point it is all just cleanup work. Trust me the stiffing happened during the bubble, we are just starting to pay the bills now!

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:10:28

Handing money out to car dealerships looks like a huge invitation to fraud to me. I hope they have someone who can investigate potential abuses of this system, though I can’t imagine whose responsibility that would be.

Pelosi will head up a commission for it. I’m sure she will do a wonderful, unbiased job. Then her head will explode from the stress of those eyes being stretched so badly.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 11:07:42

like a huge invitation to fraud to me. Several weeks passed between the enabling legislation for C4C and its implementation. During this time someone at the federal level did consult with other similar programs (in Europe,at least) ways to avoid fraud in the system. The paperwork demanded to keep junk auto flippers out of the loop seems reliable, as is the demand for the clunkers’ engines to be run with an anti-lubricant until the engines seize & become permanently unusable. I’m sure some clever knave will come up with a way to profit unfairly from some loophole, but that’s the nature of any complex society.

Comment by ahansen
2009-07-31 22:47:39

“…engines to be run with an anti-lubricant until the engines seize & become permanently unusable.”

What an incredible (yet typical,) freaking waste of resources! Blow up engines, bulldoze houses, bomb museums. Makes me so proud to be a murkin.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-01 05:09:41

Hey Its the only way to get rid of GM and Chrysler’s huge inventory…

And its a gift to Ford!

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 08:20:28

I would like to appeal to the collective wisdom, food department. I put in my “second season” tomatoes the other day. In Texas, we have a spring season, a dormant summer, then a fall growing season. (Both seasons together do not produce as much as a summer season in a temperate climate.)

I learned yesterday that several of my plants, the Purple Comanche and another purple heirloom chosen for flavor, having an 80-90 day production time, are not particularly well-suited for the southern fall season.

If we have a cool fall or early frost, I will have a lot of large GREEN $14.50 tomatoes!

What can I do with green tomatoes? I know that some can ripen in the house wrapped in newspaper, but I may have a lot. Fanny Flagg’s novel includes a recipe for fried green tomatoes, but I doubt we’d eat something breaded and fried more than once. Can you make jelly, juice, pickles, a condiment, use them as an ingredient in exotic salads or cooking?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 09:12:13

I’m told green tomato catsup is deliscious (never tried it but it would use a lot of tomatoes.) Fried green toms are absolutely delish, and I guarantee you’ll eat them more than once. (Why do people fear pan frying and yet are fine sauteeing everything else? The light breading is the only difference. Done well it should be no greasier than sauteed food.) Pickled green toms are great (a good use for very small ones, one style available commercially as ‘tom-olives’.) I think green tomato juice would be repugnant, but they do make a great relish. I’ve also had a mediocre green tomato soup with cornbread croutons, might have worked better with a better chef.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 09:21:07

deliscious=delicious

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 09:59:15

Thanks, alpha-sloth.

Any recipes or suggestions where to go for recipes? I’m guessing old-school like Joy of Cooking or Adele Davis would have more possibilities than new cookbooks. If I made a nice tasty green tomato relish, it might be appreciated as a gift and I wouldn’t have to eat two jars a week for a year.

Also, instructions as to pan frying? I don’t have much experience there, but I saute stuff all the time. I have eaten SO much ratatouille in the last few weeks that I think a few pan-fried vegetables are in order.

Bread with cornbread, flour, use egg? Olive oil ok or should I use one that heats hotter in order to get the non-greasy result that really good southern home-cooking places do? Is there any way to fry eggplant without having it soak up cups of oil?

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 10:47:29

My technique for low grease pan frying of eggplant/green toms/summer squash

Slice crosswise into normal tom-size slice, dip in flour and shake off excess, dip in beaten egg and shake off excess, dip in breadcrumbs or cornmeal to coat, let ‘dry’ on rack for about 1/2 hour, fry in med hot non-stick (I don’t care) skillet with a drizzle of olive oil, or pnut, canola etc. Any good oil can handle this heat. Flip carefully when golden-brown on bottom and add another drizzle of oil around them and swirl everything around to get in the oil. Remove to paper towels and let cool and drain off excess oil.

I probably use about a tablespoon of oil for each side, and much drains back into the towels. I use cornmeal for green toms, bread crumbs for everything else. Okra also cooks good this way, with cornmeal.

Almost any relish (we call it chow chow ’round here) can be made a green tom relish just by substituting the toms for the main ingredient. Pick any you like, but there’s one I see in my Joy of Cooking (edition with Ethan Becker et al) that is for green toms and looks reasonable. Would make a great cheap gift.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 11:15:06

If we have a cool fall or early frost, I will have a lot of large GREEN $14.50 tomatoes!
How much space do you have in your garden? Building a quick, cheap, polyethylene greenhouse over a tomato patch is trivially easy with simple hand tools. A 10′ by 25′ foot 4-gauge sheet of poly costs about $7, the supports are 1″ PVC from Home Depot (8 8′ lengths at $1.50 each) plus some PVC fittings, and metal rebar cut into 18″ sections as ground anchors. You can put it up & take it down in a few hours, and reuse everything the next spring, either to get an early start on the season or to prolong the summer (or both). The major risk is hot sunny days, where the interior of the greenhouse becomes too hot for the safety of the plants. Buttoning up the greenhouse overnight will allow your tomatoes to survive many frosty nights, and the extra heat on cool days will promote ripening.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 12:23:30

Good idea! We’ve already got the frame, as we have to put up chicken wire all around against critters. We get some hot sunny days in winter here, but if we pass around enough tomatoes to neighbors, we could have people tending the greenhouse even when we’re out of town.

I had thought of doing using polyethelene over hoops to keep greens going all winter - more and more people in the neighborhood seem to be doing that - but I hadn’t gotten thought about the tomatoes. Mmmmmm!

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 13:23:46

Now, I want to go and stuff myself with home grown tomatoes. Hmmmmmmm, good.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:14:07

We get some hot sunny days in winter here, but if we pass around enough tomatoes to neighbors, we could have people tending the greenhouse even when we’re out of town. Just be sure to consistently ventilate the daytime heat out of the thing, and then to consistently roll down the plastic at night to keep the heat in. In the sunny South, one day you fail to ventilate might result in all your plants dying. They do sell thermostatically controlled fan-vents you can put up near the peak of the roof that will automatically turn on at a certain temperature & shut off when it cools off.
Also, this “greenhouse” can be a darn nice place to sit on a cold afternoon to soak up some rays & be nice & warm.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:44:57

This is the kind of greenhouse I’ve made. It’s much more than a small structure to protect individual plants.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-07-31 15:02:06

Now, where else could I go to read about the why and wherefores of financial Armageddon, get tips on day-trading (oh, if only I could count), become happily overwrought and emotional over impending Armageddon, observe witty and cruel banter, talk about my guns and geoducks, AND get some fabulous ideas about the proper and delicious management of excess green tomatoes?
Nope. Nohow.
Only here on Ben’s Blog, baybees! :)

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-07-31 23:04:51

Tresho, those are SO COOL! Thanks for the website and the suppliers–finding obscure PVC fittings is one of my major gardening challenges.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-01 00:22:00

Awesome, Tresho. Thanks.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-07-31 09:50:46

Green tomatoes?

Pickled, use them for salsa, put ‘em in chili. A good fried green tomato is a transcendent thing, too — you don’t have to bread ‘em heavily or fry them in a ton of oil.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 14:09:49

Thanks ET and alpha sloth.

I wish now I had asked before our spring planting quit producing. I can’t wait now to have some green tomatoes to experiment with.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:54:17

I have been using a healthy oil, coconut oil. It is healthier for us, has a high heat rate, doesn’t burn like an olive oil can. Use same amt, and after it is cooked, I put olive oil on top of stuff for final cooking flavor.
You guys are making me really hungry and sad tomato plants didn’t produce more. sniffle.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-07-31 15:44:58

O yeah, good catch ET -I forgot about the chili option. You could sub them for your regular toms and and ground or shredded turkey or chicken for your meat and sub white beans for pintos- that makes a damn good chili.

Zilker- I assume you’re in Austin? You guys get hard freezes. That’ll kill even a buttoned-up green house plant unless you have aux heat, so you still may need to harvest ‘em all.

Man, I’m hungry now.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-01 00:34:22

We won’t be doing aux heat for a while anyhow, but with all these ideas today: I can see alternating some harvest and use of green tomatoes with leaving most ripen; in cold ripening the rest under greenhouse cover while we can; in case of hard frost being ready to harvest and ripen some in newspaper while using and preserving - and gifting - others.

Cool. It really helps to look ahead. I see $7.25 tomatoes… :-)

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Comment by Real Estate Refugee
2009-07-31 12:27:12

For recipes, try Epicurious dot com.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 14:12:31

“try Epicurious dot com”

I will. Now that is one sensual sounding name for a recipe collection, isn’t it?

Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 14:14:40

I will. Now that is one sensual sounding name for a recipe collection, isn’t it?

I am epicurious yellow?

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-01 00:41:34

epicurious green tomatoes, the golden years…?

 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-07-31 14:17:50

That is a cool site. Includes suggested wine pairings! (Although not for green tomato relish… I guess that one calls clearly for iced tea.)

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:56:33

cooks illustrated dot com has a recipe for perfect fried green tomatoes.

good luck and do tell

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-01 00:46:33

I’ll check it out, ditto salsa recipes below, and let you know. It will be a few weeks.

My fantasy now is that picking some nice green tomatoes will make the ones that ripen even better and induce more production…

 
 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:49:27

Salsa s galore. Have jars and jars of it. Have a book somewhere that is all about making salsas of all kinds. Pull up Recipe dot com or foodnetwork dot com and such..or rachel 30 minute ray _hehehe.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 08:20:29

BB is pushing back, this audit plan is the last thing the FED wants. I wonder why? It’s not for the reasons given by BB. I hope we can keep the pressure on and get an audit! Bye,bye, FED.

Fed Audit Supported By 75% Of Americans: Survey.

The calls to audit the Federal Reserve have come fast and furious in the last few weeks. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke is continuing to push back against a House bill that would give the Comptroller General - the head of the Government Accountability Office - the power to audit the central bank.

But, judging by the results of a new survey, the vast majority of Americans already support a Fed audit. 75 percent of Americans back auditing the Federal Reserve, according to Rassmussen Reports.

Opponents of the Federal Reserve Transparency Act Of 2009 - introduced by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) - say that putting the Fed under the control of Congress would limit the bank’s independence. (The bill has gained support from over half of the House of Representatives).

There is also growing concern from Fed supporters that Congress could exert political influence over monetary policy - though, many would argue that the Fed is already influenced by politics. But, according to the Rasmussen survey, only nine percent of adults surveyed were against the idea of a Fed audit.

The Washington Post recently said the bill “would destroy financial markets’ faith in the Fed and, by extension, the value of the U.S. dollar.” Economist Dean Baker, who’s been a vocal critic of the Fed, took the Post to task. He added: “The country is likely to lose more than $6 trillion in output ($20,000 per person) due to the Fed’s inept job performance.”

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-07-31 09:06:13

I don’t really want Congress to be able to direct the fed, but a nice public audit would be good, just to make sure things are okay. People need a check up once in a while.

Comment by bink
2009-07-31 09:15:59

I also don’t see how “audit” implies regulation. Maybe I’m missing something?

Comment by polly
2009-07-31 11:01:28

I thought they proposal was to audit the decision making process rather than an actual balance sheet type audit. They already release their minutes, so this must imply a much broader inquiry into what informtion they have before them when they make decisions and what they say (or e-mail) while deliberating. Aren’t they supposed to be making decisions based on controlling inflation? And they have started to also claim that it is controlling inflation combined with retaining some sort of full employment? Well, if an audit shows that they decided to lower interest rates 6 times in a row because they were worried that banks needed more profit that could be created by the larger spread, then that is neither controlling inflation nor maintaining employment and they could get their knuckles rapped.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:17:18

BB is throwing out the strawman of Congressional interest in the conduct of monetary policy. There is not really much to ask about when the rate is stuck for the foreseeable future at 0%, is there?

On the other hand, I can think of many other questions they might wish to ask:

1) Was the Fed in on the plan for TARP-funded banks to divert money earmarked to buy up toxic assets to pay bonuses in excess of 2008 profits at many Megabank, Inc firms?

2) Which asset prices does the Fed support, and what means do they use to support them?

3) What is the nature of the working relationship between the Fed and Federal government entities (the Congress, the Treasury, etc), and do any of these relationships compromise the Fed’s much-vaunted independence?

4) To what degree did actions taken by the Fed over the past twenty years contribute to the financial crisis at hand?

5) Did the Fed properly fulfill its regulatory role in the lending industry during the period leading up to the so-called Credit Crunch?

I could go on…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:46:55

Here is a bill which, if passed, might help BB realize the glasnost he has proposed to introduce at the Fed:

Federal Reserve Sunshine Act of 2009

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 10:43:44

Poll: Public wants to rein-in the Fed
By: Barbara Hollingsworth
Examiner Columnist
07/30/09 1:28 PM EDT

There is a growing public consensus that the highly secretive Federal Reserve System, which controls the nation’s money supply and sets interest rates, needs to do business out in the open.

A new Rasmussen poll finds that a large majority of Americans (75 percent) want Congress to audit the Fed, which has not accounted for the trillions of public dollars it spent over the last year and a half in an attempt to shore up failing financial institutions. More than half of the members of the House of Representatives have co-sponsored a bill introduced by Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, to require a public accounting of the Fed’s activities.

The Obama administration wants to give the private bankers who run the Fed - created as an independent body by Congress in 1913 in the wake of a series of banking panics – even greater regulatory powers than it already has, but 51 percent of Americans oppose such a move, according to the poll.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 14:59:02

BB and others don’t want the Audit to show us in black and white that there is no money, that the fed is part of the IMF,world bank and it is world controlled.

That is my story and I am sticking to it.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-01 02:48:44

The Fed doesn’t want us to audit their “holdings” that just might not be worth what they are claiming.

As it stands, we don’t know who they’ve bailed out through their various programs, and what they’ve taken on the Fed’s books in exchange for cash.

I think it would get ugly if we found out, which is a good thing.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-07-31 09:07:56

The “right wing” nut jobs insist on speaking out:

Town Hall Meetings Not Going As Planned

On the eve of the August recess, members of Congress are reporting meetings that have gone terribly awry, marked by angry, sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior. In at least one case, a congressman has stopped holding town hall events because the situation has spiraled so far out of control.

“I had felt they would be pointless,” Rep. Tim Bishop (D-N.Y.) told POLITICO, referring to his recent decision to suspend the events in his Long Island district. “There is no point in meeting with my constituents and [to] listen to them and have them listen to you if what is basically an unruly mob prevents you from having an intelligent conversation.”

Really?

Well Tim, guess what: you work for your constituents, not the other way around.

It would appear to this commentator that the Reps and Senators who feel “besieged” by their constituents in town hall meetings might have paid better attention in September and October when they were told by 300:1 margins not to pass the EESA/TARP bill.

Or when they were told repeatedly to NOT try to advance amnesty for illegal aliens and refuse to enforce our immigration laws.

Or when they were told repeatedly to quit bailing out the irresponsible, looking the other way while the populace is looted systematically by those in the banking and other “coddled” industries.

There are a whole host of issues like this, and Congress seems to think (because it has gotten away with it for years) that ignoring the voters is not only acceptable, but is indeed a good idea.

Let me remind Mr. Bishop, along with the other Congressfolk, that the entirety of our government serves at our pleasure, not the other way around. Specifically, let me cite The Declaration of Independence:

….That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness….

Loud voices of dissent and sign-waving constituents are an unmistakable sign that our government has pressed the line of tolerance, and may, if it does not reverse course, exceed it.

And before someone claims that I am some sort of “right-wing nut” or similar, let me point out that the above text is not mine - they are the words of the founders of our nation, who believed that absent consent government does not exist - that’s tyranny, not government.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

(From K. Denninger)

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-31 12:26:44

I saw a pic of that congressbeast on Politico. He is a perfectly groomed and manicured arrogant fook.

Probably a metrosexual as well.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 09:18:12

Isn’t counter-cyclical stimulus a good thing? Everyone says so. Without it, said Ben Bernanke, we might have entered a Second Great Depression. And we don’t know…maybe he’s right. The private sector is no longer borrowing and spending like it used to; now, the feds have to do it, right?

Where have you been, dear reader? That’s not the way it works. The credit explosion in the bubble years didn’t really make households richer - it made them poorer. That’s why they’re struggling to pay their bills now. And the credit explosion in the public sector now isn’t going to make people richer either; it’s going to make them poorer too. Soon, the United States will be struggling to pay its debts too.

That’s the moral lesson: borrowing makes you poorer. Unless you’re using the money to increase output, there’s no economic health it in. In other words, if a factory sees an opportunity, it might borrow to expand. The extra output should produce enough profit to allow it to repay the loan…and come out ahead. But if you borrow to consume, at the end of the day you’re poorer. That’s the lesson of the Bubble Years. That’s the lesson consumers need to learn every couple of generations. And now, they seem to have learned it. They remember that the economy ran hot in the bubble époque, but it didn’t do them any good. And while the stimulus of that era did stimulate consumption, it was not genuine wealth building.

- B.Bonner

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:29:24

“That’s the moral lesson: borrowing makes you poorer.

That’s the lesson consumers need to learn every couple of generations.”

Has the Fed learned this lesson yet?

 
Comment by ACH
2009-07-31 09:45:01

Borrowing makes you poorer! What a concept! You are paying your future earning for stuff that does not increase those earnings. Why make payments on furniture, TVs, computers, gadgets and toys? These do not increase your income. I restate this: There is no income increase with credit-based pruchases such as this.

I can see making payments on a house as long as the price, the interest rate, the down payment, the insurance, is all within a reasonable family budget.

I can understand making payments on a reasonably priced car. It will carry you to work, school, etc. all of which are good for increasing your wealth. It is better if you don’t make these payments, of course.

It depends upon what you buy. I don’t buy stuff on credit that does not have an economic return. No fancy vacations, high end cars, houses that are overpriced that I cannot afford, jewelry, $2500 suits. All of that is a waste.

I live well and enjoy my family. I have few worries.
Roidy

Comment by llcarlos
2009-07-31 11:48:05

If you make buying a house on credit an exception then your argument is destroyed. I bought 15k worth of furniture and a TV on credit because I wanted them now. Over 4 years they will cost me around 14% in interest. It was worth it.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:25:49

The Czech krona was 18.5 to the dollar this time last month. The annualized rate of decline since then is:

((17.9380/18.5)^12-1)*100 = -31 percent.

CURRENCY VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE TIME
EUR-USD 1.4255 0.0180 1.2800% 12:08
GBP-USD 1.6702 0.0208 1.2630% 12:08
USD-CHF 1.0692 -0.0184 -1.6890% 12:08
USD-SEK 7.2244 -0.1882 -2.5396% 12:08
USD-DKK 5.2243 -0.0658 -1.2434% 12:08
USD-NOK 6.1239 -0.1052 -1.6888% 12:08
USD-CZK 17.9380 -0.2392 -1.3157% 12:08
USD-SKK 21.1290 -0.2771 -1.2943% 12:08
USD-PLN 2.9105 -0.0450 -1.5218% 12:09
USD-HUF 187.0030 -3.4925 -1.8334% 12:08
USD-RUB 31.4560 -0.0552 -0.1753% 12:08
USD-TRY 1.4728 -0.0060 -0.4057% 12:08
USD-ILS 3.7823 -0.0027 -0.0713% 11:58

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 09:27:40

Data source: Bloomberg

 
Comment by GH
2009-07-31 10:12:46

I just noticed the rate of exchange is now $1.67 to the English pound, up from $1.35 this spring.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:00:57

krap. kabooooom

 
 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 09:29:54

So was O.J.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-07-31 09:48:14

dang we need another OJ to stimulate the broadcast business. I never made so much money in my life during those 3 years…

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:14:11

That comment was supposed to be in response to the comment about McCain being exonerated.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 09:35:42

“That’s the difference between governments and individuals. Governments don’t care, individuals do.”
~Mark Twain

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 09:40:18

“Bad news for Maureen Dowd, Kathleen Parker, Peggy Noonan, David Letterman, and all the other big-time pundits who dislike Sarah Palin. She’s not going to retire and shoot moose. She’s not going to raise money for the Republican party, either”.

“She’s probably going to work for candidates of any party who will help lead the nation back to the Constitution and sanity. At the moment she seems to be the only person around who can unify the growing central core of citizens who yearn for an interval of national stability”.
- News Clip

Comment by MrBubble
2009-07-31 11:45:11

I figured that she’d just go back to being horribly stupid and incoherent. Lead on Serrah!

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-07-31 11:48:53

Why is Maureen Dowd so scared of Sarah Palin?
Sarah’s just another empty suit, who would continue to be skewered in any debate with a member of the opposition party.

So what’s the reason for Maureen’s venom?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 13:08:24

Maureen has the same venom for Hilary Clinton. Read some of her past postings.

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-31 13:57:08

Can’t guess why Mo hates HRC, but I’m thinking she hates Sarah because she has a hot husband.

Can’t imagine that Todd would ever want to throw a bone Mo’s way, if ya know what I mean.

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Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:17:36

A political party limited to women only, would never elect anyone to office, the party members would spend all their time tearing each other down.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:03:05

philly, why couldn’t you imagine that? think about it…dudes?
Except for the outstanding fellas here! hehehe

 
Comment by jane
2009-08-01 11:40:25

Why all the venom from YOU against Ms. Palin?

I have said before that Elmer Fudd would be better to coalesce the anger we see here, than the members we are all so fond of.

IMHO, eviscerating somebody who has not been molded from the same plastic says more about you than about her.

I believe we would be on the road to recovery once we get some Mid-West common sense on the national platform. Yes, people who are not afraid to call a spade a spade. People who are not afraid to say “Wait a minute. This looks like the new guard bailing out the old guard in exchange for a ticket to the festival!” People who are not afraid to say “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - it’s probably a duck!”

Sarah Palin was the prototype for those who might be in the wings, and able to do this.

And you call her an empty suit? Because she hasn’t groomed herself with the lies?

Wussies.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 09:57:38

Thundercrack!

Stimulus Bill Funds Go to Art Houses Showing ‘Pervert’ Revues, Underground Pornography.
Thursday, July 30, 2009

The National Endowment for the Arts may be spending some of the money it received from the Recovery and Reinvestment Act to fund nude simulated-sex dances, Saturday night “pervert” revues and the airing of pornographic horror films at art houses in San Francisco.

The NEA was given $80 million of the government’s $787 billion economic stimulus bill to spread around to needy artists nationwide, and most of the money is being spent to help preserve jobs in museums, orchestras, theaters and dance troupes that have been hit hard by the recession.

But some of the NEA’s grants are spicing up more than the economy. A few of their more risque choices have some taxpayer advocates hot under the collar, including a $50,000 infusion for the Frameline film house, which recently screened Thundercrack, “the world’s only underground kinky art porno horror film, complete with four men, three women and a gorilla.”

“When you spend so much money in a short amount of time … you’re going to have nonsense like this, and that’s why the stimulus should never have been done in the first place,” said David Williams, vice president for policy at Citizens Against Government Waste.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:15:46

The National Endowment for the Arts may be spending some of the money it received from the Recovery and Reinvestment Act to fund nude simulated-sex dances, Saturday night “pervert” revues and the airing of pornographic horror films at art houses in San Francisco.

Still better than the TARP.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-07-31 11:49:32

I was getting a bit peeved at your post until you revealed the name of the theatre. Frameline. Now I know what I’m doing this weekend!

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 10:00:45

FWIW…. Dutchess, Putnam and Westchester Counties, NY

For Rent signs are popping up daily. Very random, no detectable pattern.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-07-31 10:39:54

Are there colleges around there? Trying to snag back-to-school boarders?

Comment by exeter
2009-07-31 11:19:11

There are a few colleges around but this is a new observation. I’ve never seen anything like this before.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 10:10:13

Just heard Chris Dodd has prostate cancer. I don’t wish cancer on anyone, but perhaps he won’t run again.
Nah, he’ll run.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 10:17:13

It seems fitting. Every time I think of Dodd, I think of an a–hole.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 10:52:22

Wonder which country Dodd will get his butt surgery in? Canada, U.K. France. He’s bound to want to go somewhere that has has top quality medical care, that’s “free”.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:04:23

Isn’t there a supreme who has it?

 
 
Comment by ACH
2009-07-31 10:13:27

AIG is going down the tubes - again.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/107445/after-rescue-new-weakness-seen-at-aig.html?sec=topStories&pos=5&asset=&ccode=

Now it’s their so-called “solid” insurance business. I’m betting that if AIG goes insolvent, then WS will go up 30%. Time to buy stocks.

Roidy
P.S. For those of you who are sarcasm impaired, I would ask some of us who aren’t to explain the joke. Ty, Roidy

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 10:14:00

How government “stimulus” money helped a Tennessee pie company:

“The Armstrong Pie Company in Perry County used taxpayers’ money to expand: ‘New workers [hired with stimulus money] have helped the company triple its pie production and expand its reach through central Tennessee.’

“A quick question: what happened to the pie companies that lost market share to Armstrong? And another: how is the economy any better off by stimulating one pie company to make more pies at the expense of other pie companies? And a final one: even if total pie consumption goes up – a larger pie! – where’s the benefit?”

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-07-31 10:32:49

Shouldn’t a gov’t that is trying to reduce health care costs skip dessert?

Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:18:57

Shouldn’t a gov’t that is trying to reduce health care costs skip dessert? Pie, not just for dessert anymore.

 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-07-31 10:15:21

Cash for clunkers could be a big scam: Couldn’t dealerships collect crappy old cars or even just titles to transfer to new car buyers right before they buy a new car? I would not put this past the local stealerships around here.

Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 10:59:10

Talked to a car dealer last night, he said they had six clunker deals in the last two days, two were approved so far. He doesn’t think it’s a gov. money problem as much as they were not set up to handle the program. The gov. has to approve each deal and the computers have kept crashing.

The dealer can not approve a deal so they won’t let the new car go because they are on the hook for it.

Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 11:03:09

P.S. I was also told that auto recyclers hate the deal, since they can’t strip any reusable parts, the clunkers must be destroyed, and they are not all clunkers. Of course that won’t stop anyone from stripping them, or will we have a clunker czar.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-07-31 13:46:17

It’s a hideously-stupid degree of waste. If the cars and their parts have utility left in then, they should be kept in use. Continued-use/re-use is the BEST form of recycling.

I don’t understand how liberals can be in favor of recycling, and also in favor of intentionally-wasteful programs like this.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 13:51:38

I can’t wait to see one of the righties on the blog take that one on.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 13:56:32

I don’t understand how liberals politicians can be in favor of recycling, and also in favor of intentionally-wasteful programs like this.

“Hoyer, D-Md., said that at the request of House Republicans — whose approval was required for swift passage — the bill would include provisions for government auditors to make sure the money was being spent as intended.”

Yahoo

 
 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:25:26

P.S. I was also told that auto recyclers hate the deal, since they can’t strip any reusable parts Don’t believe everything you’re told. What I’ve read about C4C is that the dealers must drain the engine’s oil, subsitute an anti-lubricant, and run the engine until it seizes. Nearly always this procedure renders the engine useless & non-repairable. A vehicle with a seized engine is of interest most to junkyards and a few crazed hobbyists. The rest of the vehicle can be salvaged for whatever parts. I suppose a dealer or recycler could replace the seized engine with a running one & sell the vehicle again, but that is not a trivial matter.

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Comment by polly
2009-07-31 15:31:20

They can recycle everything but the engine as a running engine. They don’t like it because they make the most money off running engines.

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Comment by Chip
2009-07-31 20:09:49

Yup. I’m reading that the junkyards don’t want the clunkers, for that reason. wouldn’t be surprised to see the junkers soon require payment from dealers in order to haul away the carcasses.

 
 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-07-31 11:05:52

Do you mean this was a poorly thought out, poorly planned, poorly run government program that was pushed through in haste? I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:08:07

calm down nycityboy. take it easy. whew!

And Thanks Lavi d for adjusting the phrase “politicians”

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Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-07-31 11:51:53

Just imagine health care run by the gov. Sorry Mrs. Smith. We’ve got your operation paperwork in the works but the computer has crashed. The IT boys should have that up and running in no time though. Just lay back and try to sleep.

Comment by X-philly
2009-07-31 12:13:20

This car salesman from New York agrees:

“If they can’t administer a program like this, I’d be a little concerned about my health insurance,” car salesman Rob Bojaryn said.

link on wcbstv site

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:09:08

Military health care seems to be working.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 15:59:52

Military health care seems to be working. Except for my cousin Richard, who was paratrooper during the Korean War. He wanted some benefits from the VA when he got old & poor, but was stymied because his military records were completely destroyed in a fire in the 1970’s.

 
Comment by kirisdad
2009-07-31 17:10:05

Military health care seems to be working.

Military doctors go to med school for free and don’t have to worry about malpractice ins.. A co-workers son graduated west point and now goes to an ivy league Med school. Sixty thou a year. Paid for by the US Army.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 20:59:40

If someone gets their BS, BA etc, they can- or used to- enroll as Officers in military and sign up for a 4 yr term after the military pays for their law, medical or dental schooling.
Knew of a dentist who utilized that avenue in 70s,

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 12:47:37

Just imagine health care run by the gov.

Well, to paraphrase Brock, if the government will do such a terrible job offering health insurance, then why are the insurance companies fighting tooth and nail to prevent it?

Do you really think the health insurance companies are opposed to gov’t insurance because they fervently believe it will be a bad deal for the American people?

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 13:25:14

B I N G O.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 13:58:24

I, for one, can’t wait to kick my self-employed health insurance plan to the curb and go on the public plan.

And here’s an idea: The United States is home to the best basic and applied research enterprise in the world. We’re home to NIH, NIMH, and the CDC.

These and other agencies fund a lot of health-related research. And research studies need research subjects.

So, why not invite participants in the public plan to participate in those studies? They’d be helping to advance knowledge of human health and alleviate suffering.

In my own family, there’s a history of Alzheimer’s Disease, cancer, and deafness. I would be more than willing to participate in studies related to these conditions. They have already inflicted great pain and hardship on my family.

 
Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-07-31 14:04:18

I’d say the insurance companies know they can’t compete against the government and don’t want to go out of business. Tort reform is what we need but I don’t think that’s likely to happen seeing as the politicians are mostly lawyers.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 14:23:48

I’d say the insurance companies know they can’t compete against the government and don’t want to go out of business.

I respectfully disagree.

They (the insurance companies) can’t have it both ways - either it (gov’t insurance) is going to be crap and only the most desperate people will be forced to use it, or it’s going to provide a decent alternative (read, threat) and the insurance companies are going to have to figure out how to compete.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:27:53

Tort reform is what we need but I don’t think that’s likely to happen seeing as the politicians are mostly lawyers. Also, lawyers who profit from tort lawsuits contribute a huge amount of money to the Democrats, at least.

 
Comment by packman
2009-07-31 14:29:30

Well, to paraphrase Brock, if the government will do such a terrible job offering health insurance, then why are the insurance companies fighting tooth and nail to prevent it?

That’d be

S - U - B - S - I - D - I - Z - A - T - I - O - N

:-)

It’s doesn’t matter how good or bad a business is - it’s impossible to compete with another business that has infinitely-deep pockets.

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-31 15:02:35

Do you really think the health insurance companies are opposed to gov’t insurance because they fervently believe it will be a bad deal for the American people?

Their concern is executive bonuses first and maybe profits second. The health of Americans is largely irrelevant to them.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:14:10

tort reform is just the deeep pckts of INS corps, Pharma to keep the minute amounts of major lawsuits against corps from happening. The lawsuits are far less than 5% of this pie the pharma/ins corps that want to stack the legal system with judges that are paid off by them and against the citizens of the US.

sdgreg- correct.

Do you really think the health insurance companies are opposed to gov’t insurance because they fervently believe it will be a bad deal for the American people?

Their concern is executive bonuses first and maybe profits second. The health of Americans is largely irrelevant to them.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 15:18:50

Aren’t most corporations S - U - B - S - I - D - I - Z - E by the U.S. government all ready?

 
 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 13:01:39

The person buying the new car has to have owned and insured the old car continuously for a period of time - a year I think.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 13:14:58

It’s true polly.

Have to owned an insured the car for a year.

To qualify, your trade-in vehicle must:

Be in driveable condition

Have been continuously insured consistent with State laws and registered to you for at least one year immediately prior to trade-in

Be manufactured less than 25 years before the date of the trade-in (nothing older than 1984)

Have a combined MPG of 18 or less (this does not apply to category 3 trucks

Comment by Chip
2009-07-31 20:15:15

SF - I wish they had started with 12 MPG or at most 14 MPG, to see how many of those are gotten off the road first. Going from 12.5 MPG to 20 MPG saves 300 gallons per 10,000 miles. Going from 16.5 MPG to 25 MPG saves just 200 gallons per 10,000 miles. And going from 20 MPG to 2 MPG - or from 25 MPG to 33 MPG - saves only 100 gallons.

There is an excellent study at duke.edu about this.

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Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:29:39

The person buying the new car has to have owned and insured the old car continuously for a period of time - a year I think. Yup, and some of the otherwise qualified would-be buyers have discarded the paperwork that would have backed up this claim. How many of you save your old auto insurance cards & annual auto registration papers?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-07-31 15:15:47

waving hand.

cpa says I have more receipts that could probably assist all their clients. hum. well now. how long should you keep receipts?

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 15:20:24

I can request a copy of my old auto insurance cards.

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Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 16:01:59

I can request a copy of my old auto insurance cards. Remember, the C4C program has a $ limit, which is also a time limit. Can you get your paperwork together fast enough to take advantage of the program?

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-07-31 18:55:06

Not now, no. Then again I wasn’t in the market.

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-07-31 15:29:33

I do. But even if I didn’t, it would be easy enough to get it from my insurance company.

Besides, the purpose of the program is to sell a bunch of new relatively fuel efficient cars and get a bunch of less fuel efficient cars off the road. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference to the government if some people with bad records can’t participate as long as there are enough people with good records who can participate.

Who told you life would be fair?

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Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 16:05:45

Who told you life would be fair? “Life is unfair.” — John F. Kennedy

 
Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 16:17:12

the purpose of the program is to sell a bunch of new relatively fuel efficient cars and get a bunch of less fuel efficient cars off the road. And a personal goal of mine was to trade in my F150 for a vehicle that would carry as much but get much better mileage. I hoped Ford would start selling their Transit Connect van this month, which would do the trick. So my goal dovetailed nicely with the government’s, & I have the $ ready to go. Unfortunately, th’ain’t no Ford Transit Connects for sale yet & it’s almost August. Oh, well.

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-07-31 15:32:33

It’s doesn’t matter how good or bad a business is - it’s impossible to compete with another business that has infinitely-deep pockets.

Stop and think about that for a moment.

Why is bottled water a multi-billion dollar industry even though “government subsidized” tap water is essentially free?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 10:41:18

Try not to catch yerself a falling knife.

Commentary The Buzz
Hmm … tastes like recession

Wall Street was buoyed by the GDP report. But consumers still aren’t spending. And until they do, investors may have to be wary of the recovery talk.

By Paul R. La Monica, CNNMoney dot com editor at large
Last Updated: July 31, 2009: 12:55 PM ET

Stocks have enjoyed a huge pop since early March. Some experts think the markets are heading even higher but others worry that investors have priced in unreasonble recovery hopes.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Score one for the green shoots crowd. The second-quarter gross domestic product report Friday clearly showed that the economy is in fact stabilizing.

Stocks were up slightly on the GDP news — a bit of a surprise considering that investors had appeared to already factor in that the nation’s gross domestic product probably shrunk at a much lower rate than in the previous two quarters. The S&P 500, after all, has surged more than 45% since early March.

So even though it’s premature to give the economy a clean bill of health and say the recession is really over, many financial experts said it is growing increasingly difficult to be negative about the outlook for the economy and markets.

“There is still a lot of momentum in the market so I wouldn’t be surprised to see stocks move higher over next few weeks,” said Robert Phillips, co-founder of Spectrum Management Group of Raymond James & Associates, a money management firm in Indianapolis. “The world’s not going to be fixed overnight but we’re headed in the right direction.”

Comment by SDGreg
2009-07-31 15:05:14

But consumers still aren’t spending. And until they do, investors may have to be wary of the recovery talk.

Consumers that are loaded up with debt, can’t get more, and have declining wages aren’t going to be spending more. They can’t.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-07-31 11:06:31

STATE’S A WRECK? PARTY!
GOV AT CLUB BASH AMID A NEW DI$ASTER
Post Correspondent July 31, 2009
ALBANY — What’s Gov. Paterson got to celebrate?

Just hours before delivering news of soaring budget deficits and lagging revenues from the recent millionaire’s tax, the party-hearty Paterson was spotted hobnobbing at a Chelsea hot spot with “new BFF” Russell Simmons and others from the hip-hop set.

The night-owl chief executive reportedly lingered for hours at the West 21st Street nightclub Taj, which was the site of several overlapping cocktail parties, including an invitation-only birthday bash for BET executive Rhonda Cowan, a longtime Paterson friend.

Stagnant poll numbers, lackluster campaign fund-raising and the threat of a challenge within his own party didn’t keep the Democratic governor from enjoying himself at the midweek fiesta.

“God’s Favorite MC,” Frank Jugga, contributed “mike flava,” and music promoter Dontay Thompson leaped on a table. Hot 97 deejay Funkmaster Flex was there, too.

Just hours later, Paterson called on the Legislature to address a yawning budget gap that has swelled to $2.1 billion in just three months.

The governor blamed his latest bleak forecast, which pushes the state’s budget gap to $38.2 billion over the next four years, on plunging tax collections and job losses.

Plummeting tax revenues were behind much of the shortfall.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-07-31 11:48:55

How is Freddie Mac dealing with its delinquent loans? I ask because I just got laid off and CitiMortgage told me that they will work out a 6 month “plan” where I pay a fraction of the mortgage payment.

So I asked them what happens if I’m still unemployed 6 months later (which I believe is very probable). I was told that it would be up to the investor: Freddie Mac. She insuated that Freddie would probably extend the deal. for a while.

Anyway, this sounds pretty good: we get to stay in the house making what would be the equivalent of rent on a small house (perhaps). I will find out in a few weeks what their offer is. If it stinks I’ll just let them foreclose (I’m way underwater) and move into a rental.

I’m also considering switching careers and becoming a HS math teacher. The pay is quite a bit less, but having summers off and not having to work 60-80 hrs a week doesn’t sound all that bad. I’m also fluent in Spanish, so that will make me an ideal candidate (already spoke with the school district HR). I’m missing acouple of math classes that I can take at the local JC/CC, then pass the PRAXIS test and I’ll have an “alternative license). In theory I could start as early an next January.

Comment by polly
2009-07-31 13:09:18

Good teachers do work 60 hour + weeks, at least they do the first several years. And if you are on a provisional liscense, you will be taking teacher certification classes while you are teaching and you have to pay for them yourself.

Pick up a graphing calculator. When I took the Praxis for high school math you were required to bring one to the test, though, of course, they couldn’t make you use it.

And remember that if your state is facing cut backs, class sizes may be rising over the next few years. They try to keep the little kids under 25 per room, but high school kids don’t get that sort of consideration.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 14:00:22

My mother taught school for 22 years. I can attest to the fact that her workweek was around 60 hours. Not only did she teach the classes during the day, she also corrected papers during the evening.

I learned not to bother her when she was correcting papers. It really put her in a bad mood.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 13:52:27

How can Freddie Mac be an investor? I thought they had essentially gone belly up, as evidenced by their stock share price of less than $1. This makes me wonder if the zombie GSEs have been handed the role of fixing prices at levels which keep homes unaffordable to the typical consumer? I know this sounds absurd, given that their mission is to make housing affordable, but I keep reading hints in the MSM financial press that the government does not want home prices to fall “too far.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 14:09:24

Are you qualified to teach community college math? I talked my sister into moving from HS to community college math teaching a few years ago, and I get the sense that she will be forever grateful to me for doing so.

Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:31:33

I talked my sister into moving from HS to community college math teaching a few years ago What are the differences in the teacher’s work between the two situations?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 14:45:25

HS kids have to attend by law, whereas CC attendance is voluntary. Further, CC attendees generally face a tradeoff between working and attending school, and will only sit in class if the experience has greater value than their paycheck. The upshot is that discipline is (potentially) a never-ending headache for HS teachers, and a nonexistent problem for CC teachers.

It is also much funner to teach people who are in class to learn instead of to screw around (again related to the opportunity cost of foregoing a paycheck that CC students pay to attend class, versus HS students who are their by force of law).

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 14:47:26

“there” not “their” (d’oh)…

More reasons:

- You are likely to get smaller class sizes in CC than HS (my sister typically teaches 15 students in a class; I assume HS classes are larger).

- You may be able to teach more interesting courses in CC than HS (I have taught statistics, algebra and calculus in CC; assume only algebra would be an option for many HS teachers).

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-07-31 16:12:33

But don’t think that community college classes are a piece of cake. A few years ago, I did volunteer work with a fellow who has a Ph.D. in atmospheric science.

He was embarking on a career change, which involved taking an organic chemistry course at Pima Community College. Tough course, he said. OTOH, the instructor was wonderful.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-01 03:21:41

Comment by tresho
2009-07-31 14:31:33
I talked my sister into moving from HS to community college math teaching a few years ago What are the differences in the teacher’s work between the two situations?

——————–

Man, oh, man…are there differences!

Like PB said, the main difference is that you don’t have the discipline problems in CC. In addition to that, you usually have fewer class hours, and more “office time” in CC.

My dad was a CC professor, so I saw it from the inside. It’s probably the #1 job — even better than a university because you don’t have to publish.

If anyone has an opportunity to become a CC professor, I highly recommend you jump at the opportunity (lots of competition, BTW).

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 12:53:54

The financial sector is committing similar crimes against the public-at-large across the pond.

Telegraph dot co dot uk

Bankers are getting away with murder
Our savings and taxes are being used as a piggy-bank for the City, says
Jeremy Warner

Published: 4:38PM BST 31 Jul 2009

Adair Turner, the chairman of the Financial Services Authority, has said it, and now the cross-party Treasury Committee of MPs has said it, albeit it in a rather different way. But neither has said it strongly enough. Despite the worst banking crisis in history, costing the taxpayer £1.3 trillion in public support, bankers are behaving as if nothing of any significance has changed at all.

The easy money-making practices of the past are back, with record bonuses and retention fees, even in banks that have required massive state bailouts. The reform agenda is fast running into the sand. Worse, savers and customers are being leeched as never before to rebuild balance sheets damaged by bad lending decisions, while sovereign guarantees to prevent the banking system from collapsing are cynically being used to underwrite a recruitment and remuneration binge that eclipses even that of the boom.

After years of suffering at the hands of the “borrow now, pay later” culture, the careful were promised that whatever else the banking crisis brought, at least it would drive a seminal change back to the old-fashioned values of thrift and self-reliance.

How wrong can you be. It’s hard to impossible to get a real rate of return on your cash right now. The bankers have squeezed savings rates to virtually zero, even as they jack up what they charge to borrowers. So there is nothing clever about the supercharged operating profits bankers are once more generating: they are simply widening the spread.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-07-31 12:56:43

California could have $15 billion shortfalls
Richard Procter, San Francisco Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Friday, July 31, 2009

(07-31) 04:00 PDT Sacramento - –

The plan signed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger this week to balance the state’s budget could leave California facing shortfalls in future years of more than $15 billion, according to an analysis released Thursday by a major Wall Street credit rating firm.

Moody’s also criticized California’s plan to take more than $1 billion from counties’ redevelopment agencies this year to help close its $24 billion deficit, saying that could jeopardize those agencies’ credit ratings.

Moody’s is one of several firms, including Fitch Ratings, that downgraded the state’s credit ratings this month after legislators failed to pass a budget by the June 30 deadline.

Emily Raimes, Moody’s vice president and senior analyst, said that the plan adopted this week may stop the state’s credit rating from dropping further, but added that eliminating the deficit “was achieved through a combination of cuts, raids on local funds, accounting maneuvers and one-time revenues that leave the state poorly positioned for budgetary balance in future years.”

 
Comment by Northeastener
2009-07-31 14:45:26

Kentucky Shows States Widening Deficits for Stimulus


When the U.S. government made stimulus funds available to develop batteries for hybrid and all-electric vehicles, eight states waged a bidding war to lure manufacturers such as EnerSys and Exide Technologies and get a piece of the $2 billion pot.

“The economic war among states is very much a zero-sum game, with Peter robbing Paul,” said Greg LeRoy, executive director of Good Jobs First, a Washington-based center that tracks economic-development deals.

Link here

But here’s the kicker… in regards to states offering incentives to companies to relocate, one expert had this to say: “Sure, it looks like job creation from a parochial perspective,” Art Rolnick [research director at the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis] said. “From a national perspective, it’s counterproductive and not good public policy.”

Hahahah. That’s funny Art. So, tell me again how state’s offering subsidies to companies to relocate isn’t good for the national economy but countries offering subsidies (through lower labor/environmental regulation and taxes) to relocate our jobs is in our national best interest. Hilarious… I’ve started wearing the Comedian’s smiley-face pin everywhere I go because I can’t take this crap seriously anymore. It’s one big joke…

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-07-31 15:16:31

Not a gator,

If you’re still out there and haven’t left town yet, I’ve two more suggestions for grazing that I can’t believe I left out:

Saburo’s: Huge amount of sushi for the $$.
Toro Bravo: Great tapas, although a little spendy.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-07-31 19:28:22

It`s another Friday night smack down.

Regulators shut down banks in five states
By MARCY GORDON and IEVA M. AUGSTUMS
AP Business Writers

WASHINGTON — Regulators on Friday shut down banks in Florida, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma and Illinois, boosting to 69 the number of federally insured banks to fail this year amid the pressures of the weak economy and mounting loan defaults.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. was appointed receiver of the five banks.

The agency shut down Integrity Bank of Jupiter, Fla., with $119 million in assets and $102 million in deposits, and First BankAmericano, based in Elizabeth, N.J., with $166 million in assets and $157 million in deposits.

Also closed were Peoples Community Bank, West Chester, Ohio, with $705.8 million in assets and $598.2 million in deposits; First State Bank of Altus, in Altus, Okla., with $103.4 million in assets and $98.2 million in deposits; and Mutual Bank of Harvey, Ill., with $1.6 billion in assets and $1.6 billion in deposits.

Mutual Bank was the largest of the five. It was closed Friday by the Illinois Department of Financial Professional Regulation’s division of banking, which appointed the FDIC as receiver. United Central Bank of Garland, Texas, is assuming the deposits and essentially all of the assets. In addition, the FDIC and First United Central Bank entered into a loss-sharing agreement covering $1.3 billion of the assets of Mutual Bank. Its 12 branches will reopen Saturday as offices of United Central Bank.

First State Bank of Altus was closed by the Oklahoma State Banking Department, which appointed the FDIC as receiver. Herring Bank, based in Amarillo, Texas, is assuming the deposits and about $64.4 million of the assets of First State Bank of Altus and the FDIC will retain the remaining assets for eventual sale. The failed bank’s branches will reopen Saturday as offices of Herring Bank.

The FDIC said that Stonegate Bank, based in Fort Lauderdale, Fla., had agreed to assume all the deposits and about $52 million of the assets of Integrity Bank. The agency will retain the remaining assets for eventual sale. Integrity Bank’s sole office in Jupiter will reopen Monday as a branch of Stonegate Bank.

Crown Bank, based in Brick, N.J., has agreed to assume the assets and deposits of First BankAmericano. The failed bank’s six branches will reopen Saturday as offices of Crown Bank.

First National Bank, based in Hamilton, Ohio, is buying the assets and deposits of Peoples Community Bank. In addition, the FDIC and First Financial Bank entered into a loss-sharing agreement covering $657.6 million of the assets of Peoples Community Bank. Its 19 branches will reopen Monday as offices of First Financial Bank.

The 69 bank failures nationwide this year compare with 25 last year and three in 2007.

The FDIC estimates that the cost to the deposit insurance fund from the failure of Integrity Bank will be around $46 million, that of First BankAmericano $15 million, Peoples Community Bank $129.5 million, First State Bank of Altus $25.2 million and Mutual Bank $696 million.

As the economy has soured — with unemployment rising, home prices tumbling and loan defaults soaring — bank failures have cascaded and sapped billions out of the deposit insurance fund. It now stands at its lowest level since 1993, $13 billion as of the first quarter.

While losses on home mortgages may be leveling off, delinquencies on commercial real estate loans remain a hot spot of potential trouble, FDIC officials say. If the recession deepens, defaults on the high-risk loans could spike. Many regional banks hold large numbers of them.

The number of banks on the FDIC’s list of problem institutions leaped to 305 in the first quarter — the highest number since 1994 during the savings and loan crisis — from 252 in the fourth quarter. The FDIC expects U.S. bank failures to cost the insurance fund around $70 billion through 2013.

The May closing of struggling Florida thrift BankUnited FSB is expected to cost the insurance fund $4.9 billion, the second-largest hit since the financial crisis began. The costliest was the July 2008 seizure of big California lender IndyMac Bank, on which the insurance fund is estimated to have lost $10.7 billion.

The largest U.S. bank failure ever also came last year: Seattle-based thrift Washington Mutual Inc. fell in September, with about $307 billion in assets. It was acquired by JPMorgan Chase & Co. for $1.9 billion in a deal brokered by the FDIC.

___

 
Comment by Fresno native
2009-08-01 03:36:28

From the Fresno Bee’s business blog:

Tsunami coming?

When real estate broker Terance Frazier is asked about the projected next wave of foreclosures, he points to a chart compiled by his intern, Trent Souza.

Souza matched up scheduled auction dates at the Fresno County courthouse with government-imposed moratoriums and found, not surprisingly, that banks didn’t repossess as many homes during those periods.

Then, he tallied up the number of new default notices and discovered that, barring more government intervention, the number of foreclosures could more than double between September, when the last moratorium expires, and year’s end.

Frazier, who buys and resells foreclosures, said bank-owned properties have been piling up as lenders, adhering to moratoriums, postponed the auctions. Those could start hitting the marketplace in early 2010, increasing supply and possibly keeping prices down.

Frazier says the moratoriums delayed the recovery of the housing market and also fuzzy predictions. “We don’t know what the government will do,” he said. “Until that inventory hits the market, we won’t recover.”

It remains to be seen if real estate agents will be able to sell the foreclosures as quickly as they are now. Lower-priced foreclosures get multiple offers and many realty agents want more to sell.

But, experts predict more moderate and higher-end families to lose their houses during this recession, which is the worst in decades. At least 1 of every 10 home loans in Fresno County was at least 90 days delinquent in June, according to market tracker First American CoreLogic.

Banks say they are modifying more loans and doing more short sales, where they negotiate negotiate a sale with the owner before it goes to foreclosure.

But Frazier thinks lenders should reappraise properties, issue a new loan at a reduced interest rate for the true value and then either issue a no-interest mortgage for the remainder of the old loan, or arrange to be paid a cut of any profit from the sale of the house.

That would cut payments enough to keep the homeowner from defaulting and put money into their pockets - money that could be used to buy cars, appliances, eat in restaurants and otherwise stimulate the economy.

Posted by Sandy Nax at 3:14 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0)

Sandy Nax covers real estate and business for The Fresno Bee. He can be reached at 441-6495 or snax@fresnobee.com

 
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