August 5, 2009

HBB On The Road To Flagstaff

This thread can double as a bits bucket. I’ll hopfully be posting observations, etc, during the next few days on my trip out west.




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316 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-08-05 08:47:45

I’m still having internet connection problems, so please be patient. Moderation may be a bit slow today.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-05 08:51:28

“…Moderation may be a bit slow today.” (…biscuit crumbs falling from mouth to car seat…) ;-)

 
Comment by bink
2009-08-05 09:34:34

I had resorted to staring into an old mop bucket and trying to divine the future. All I learned was not to mix bleach and ammonia.

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-05 11:09:31

Mixing bleach and ammonia may be useful if you want to get rid of pests….especially the two legged kind. Almost as useful a household recipe as mixing gasoline and soap flakes. ;)

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 11:15:54

That combo is also heavier than air so you can easily clear out a basement of pests without even going down the stairs. Stairs suck!

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Comment by DennisN
2009-08-05 11:11:21

“Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” - Barry Goldwater

 
Comment by Ann Gogh
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 13:26:36

Thanks Ann, Great shots. Everyone looks healthy and like a bunch of renters..
hahahaha. JustKidding.
;>

Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 22:03:00

Thanks for the pix, Annie. You’re looking wonderful, girl, and it’s great to see you posting again!
Hi to all the familiar faces–wish I could have joined you there. I’m assuming you tipped a few cold ones for me?

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Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 00:31:49

We did, and we had lots of nice things to say about you, ahansen! :)

Thanks for all your guest posts. You’re a terrific writer!

 
 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-08-06 07:49:52

“On the road with Ben and Felix”

Sheesh…I sure hope that the AZ Hwy Patrol Rollers don’t stop you with that that stupid rented cat driving Ben.
;)

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-05 08:49:43

So the BEA released new numbers for the personal savings rate the other day, and wahoo! - Americans are saving again!

Or, then again, maybe they’re really not, and maybe its just that the BEA is pulling a Winston.

Note that not only has the BEA strongly revised their numbers updward recently - but they also removed the pre-1995 historical data the other day! Here’s the current data, however
Google
still has the old data in its cache.

Things that make you go hmmmm…..

Comment by InMontana
2009-08-05 08:56:48

so, boom times = low savings? seems to be the pattern in the cached version.

It really ought to be the opposite.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:00:26

It seems almost baked into human nature that a large percentage of the population are wastrels during booms and beggars during busts. And the political machinery of our country rewards swimming with the crowd.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-05 09:10:40

“so, boom times = low savings?”

It’s not really just that people are “wastrels during booms”.

I think the real explanation may be that the booms are more of a symptom of the increasing leverage during these periods.

Increasing debt == lower computed savings rate. Decreasing debt == higher computed savings rate.

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-05 09:21:36

Optimists borrow. REAL optimists lend to them.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:26:01

And pragmatists buy that debit, slice it and dice it, and sell it to fools.

 
Comment by Leighsong
2009-08-05 13:44:18

Dinor,

My prayers are with you and yours.

Many Blessings,
Leigh

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 22:08:57

D, Honey, you sure do have your plate full right now. Please know that we’re all pulling for you and sending out good thoughts to your family as you pull through this. Hang in there, okay?

Hugs,
a

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-05 09:32:25

SFBB,

As… near as “I” can figure? And we -said- as much all during the ramp UP. Everyone was living off the “fat of the MEW” and ‘they’ seemed just fine with it?

All the while we’re screaming at the top of our lungs and I don’t know if anyone’s noticed but we’re being shut out of the debate again?

Haven’t been able to post over the last few days ( my younger brother recently passed away ) and it’s been a real mess.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:41:35

DinOR,

I’m very sorry to hear about your brother. That has to be terribly rough.

And yes, I notice that responsible savers are shut out of the discussion again. On the way up, we were whiners who didn’t get the new economy and on the way down we are obstructionists who don’t want to give up a tiny fraction (and they promise it’s a tiny fraction) our fat-cat savings for the good of the country.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-05 09:45:21

So sorry to hear that.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 09:50:53

My sympathies, DinOR.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 10:10:54

Sorry to hear about your younger brother DinOR.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-05 11:08:19

DinOr,

I am so sorry about the passing of your younger brother.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-05 11:09:54

Thanks so much guys. It means a lot especially coming from people who’s opnions I respect. In ways, I “feel awful about not feeling awful”.

I know there have been others that have been through this here ( very recently ) At times, it feels like a “relief”. He’d basically been ranking higher on “the dead pool” than Keith Richards ( always a favorite? ) Again, thanks.

Right! We “didn’t get the new economy” where owning a house PAYS for the house ( and oh so much more! ) Early on ( ‘03? ) we were getting slammed for being p*ssies for even daring to suggest someone look down at the speedometer?

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 11:20:57

Keith Richards is always a favorite, and you hang in there DinOR. You have a lot of friends here.

P.S. Let’s imagine Keith Richards running a Lemo-Nade stand when he was 6. Hell, that would have been some good sh*t!!! :)

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-08-05 11:22:23

DinOr,

I am so sorry about your loss. I hope you and your family are getting through it. I think I speak for all of us when I say we’ll be thinking of you and sending positive energy and prayers your way.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 11:28:48

Yes you are, and as always, Prof B. does the job.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 11:30:39

I’m sorry, I was unaware of the whole thing. My sincere sympathy to you and yours, DinOr.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 11:34:14

My condolences, DinOr

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 11:46:29

Hey San Diego, I didn’t read you, and saw bear. My prayers are with DinOR and his family.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-08-05 12:05:23

DinOR,

I am sorry.

(BTW, Nikki Sixx is a dead pool favorite too.)

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-05 12:25:51

Again, thanks so much guys. Even if we have our differences when it comes to accountability for the bubble etc., anyway you slice, this is a class crowd.

One of the guys in my reserve squadron had a brother that passed away from complications of Hep. C. And this is -why- I really.., don’t care if younger people think I’m getting on a soapbox over drugs. I have no doubt he likely contracted it before people even knew what it was or were mortified by Aids etc? From what little I’ve had time to read, it can be passed even by ’snorters’ that use the same straw or rolled up bill.

Even though he lived “clean” for decades, I guess it incubates so slowly in your system, the changes are gradual. This is why I don’t care if it’s ‘awkward’ to bring up the fact that there really -isn’t- such a thing as “casual drug experimentation”. I’ve had many people get really dismissive about it, describing it as “just a phase”.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-05 12:50:00

My closest friend lost his little brother about 10 years ago, and he still feels the pain sometimes. A bunch of us go out for sushi every year in his memory, because that boy could put away some sushi. He definitly had a good dose of “little brother syndrome.” If everyone was loud, he was louder. If everyone was drunk, he was drunker, and when everyone was acting dumb, he was acting dumber.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-05 12:57:22

DinOR - sorry to hear about your younger brother. It’s a tough thing I’m sure.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-05 13:03:17

My condolences, DinOR. Let us know if we can be of help/solace.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 13:13:30

DinOR: I know that gig, and my heart knows what you are feeking. Drugs destroyed everything for me, and I got lucky.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-08-05 13:19:59

DinOR….I kinda feel the way you do because my older brother
passed away about 10 years ago from drugs for most part .But ,
sorry about your loss . From what you said ,your brother was
pretty young ,I think the other day you said he was 48 years
old .Sorry .

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 13:34:04

Sorry for your loss, Dinor.

So many took the bait and couldn’t let the hook go. And that adage about once is enough, surely says it all.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 13:42:46

Somewhere, in here, when Mr. Filter decides what to do, I posted “Drugs destroyed my life”. Incorrect, I destroyed my life.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-05 15:01:26

D, very sorry for your loss… :-(

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-05 15:23:10

Sorry to hear about your brother, DinOR.

Agree with you about the drugs (and alcohol, if it’s abused).

Your family is in our prayers.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-05 15:40:36

I appreciate all the support, and after all, this blog is kind of a “sanity support group” amidst all the madness.

Housing Wizard,

I’m sorry to hear that as well. It was a brand of awkwardness all it’s own whenever people inquired about my brother.., for years. Oh you know, he’s doing great, “living” down in AZ with all that sunshine!

( and then hang up the phone and feel sick to your stomach ) I think we’ve all been there. After years of clean living he sold his long time residence and had about $100k. I think that was when things began to go downhill.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 23:23:23

Probably so, DinOR. I know the behavior. I am the behavior.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 23:26:23

Hey Oly, how do you spell, behaveuour?

 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-05 09:14:54

so, boom times = low savings? seems to be the pattern in the cached version.

It really ought to be the opposite.

Yes, exactly. There’s quite a correlation between the two. Unfortunately the media (as fed by their banker friends) have gotten us to buy into the whole “boom times” mantra - to associate “booms” strictly with GDP growth, and to completely ignore the fact that our recent supposed booms have been very debt-driven, and not really driven by advances in technology and productivity. So we’re now under the false impression that we need additional debt to make the economy “whole” again, when the opposite is true.

Doesn’t bode well.

Comment by packman
2009-08-05 09:42:39

As a follow-up - here’s the comparison of the savings rate vs. GDP growth.

It’s hard to draw too many direct correlation conclusions in the short-term changes, since they jump around so much. However long-term, what I see is:

- Before the 1980’s we generally had 5%+ GDP growth, while personal savings was quite high. After the early 1980’s personal savings continued dropping like a rock - i.e. we were going further into debt, without any increase in GDP growth at all.

- Obviously recently we’ve had some savings increase (though still fairly low), while GDP has dropped like rock. It appears to me that if we actually got back up to a decent historic savings rate - like around 8.0 - 10.0, that GDP would be plummeting to probably cataclysmic levels.

- As such, this to me points out that there’s no easy way out of this recession. In order to really bring GDP back up, we would need personal savings to drop back down below 0 again (at least in pre-adjusted terms).

- Thus I think we’re very close to the point where the cost of servicing our debt will exceed our GDP. There’s an analysis someone did on this somewhere - something about a crossover point where each new dollar of debt gets some percentage of return, and that is diminishing such that eventually we’ll reach a point where each new dollar of debt gets no return at all. At that point - we’re hosed, and it’s time for a complete reset of the economy.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-08-06 09:17:06

“Thus I think we’re very close to the point where the cost of servicing our debt will exceed our GDP. There’s an analysis someone did on this somewhere - something about a crossover point where each new dollar of debt gets some percentage of return, and that is diminishing such that eventually we’ll reach a point where each new dollar of debt gets no return at all. At that point - we’re hosed, and it’s time for a complete reset of the economy.”

This sounds familiar… and I thought we were already at that point.

Hyperinflation will be the “solution” as it will destroy everyone but the parasite class and thus is “good for the economy.”

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 09:16:01

Just like everyone forgets that Keynesian economics calls for less gov spending during boom times. But they sure remember it calls for more spending during busts.

Comment by maldonash
2009-08-05 09:36:29

Keynesian’s forget that it is 1000x more difficult to stop spending free money (OPM - other peoples money) than ones own. This is the nature of the incentive sucking beast a.k.a. our federal state system.

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Comment by polly
2009-08-05 10:14:20

You could get almost the same effect by increasing the bank reserve requirements during boom times and loosening them a bit when times turn bad.

Just try getting that past the howling bankers lobbyists when profits are high….

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-08-05 10:19:39

They’re reporting today that the POTUS is revisiting Elkhart, Indiana with $2B of grants in hand, presumably to hand out with the cameras on.

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Comment by Muggy
2009-08-05 10:26:27

“with $2B of grants in hand”

Print baby, print!

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-05 10:31:56

They’re reporting today that the POTUS is revisiting Elkhart, Indiana with $2B of grants in hand, presumably to hand out with the cameras on.

Would that be 40 million Grants ($50 bills) then? That dude must have huge hands.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 11:04:24

pimp rolls?

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 11:08:11

““Anything that can help this area to bring jobs back to this area is important for us, and we would appreciate anything that is going to be done,” Jo Geleske, director of the Wakarusa Public Library, who said she would likely be part of the throng lining the streets as Obama makes his way to Monaco. ”

They all celebrated the coming of thousands of new jobs thanks to Obama Bucks by heading to their local Walmart and buying a bunch of crap manufactured in China.

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-08-05 11:34:23

“…be part of the throng lining the streets as Obama makes his way to Monaco.”

This is a passage worthy of Ceasar!

Seriously, it sound’s like it was cut from a Cecil B. DeMille epic.

 
Comment by goirishgohoosiers
2009-08-05 12:43:51

Northern Indiana is truly fooked. That gaudy, gas guzzling monstrosity known as the Hummer is made just a few miles east of South Bend. Elkhart County (which earlier in the year had the highest unemployment rate in the country, now they’re a little better but still in the top 10) is the RV manufacturing capital of the world, or at least that’s what the sign says when you’re driving into it.

Talk about your exposure to the debt bubble of the past years. People don’t buy Hummers and RVs when gas is $4.00/gal and even with cheaper gas, and no one wants to borrow (and the purchase money was almost always borrowed) the money it takes to buy these things when they don’t know whether they’ll have a job in 6 mos.

They’re pinning all their hopes now on electric cars. Maybe it’ll work, but it reminds me too much of the Simpsons monorail episode from the way it’s being pitched.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 13:16:55

A couple of former neighbors took off to explore America in their RV. They kept their travels going for a couple of years, then the gas prices spiked. Which meant that they kept the rig parked in the same place for weeks, if not months.

Last fall, they came back to Tucson and (I think) parked the RV permanently. They just bought a fixer-upper house, and, from what I’ve been able to discern, they got a pretty good deal on it. They’re quite the handy-people, and they’ll be busy with the fixup game for years to come.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-05 13:41:21

I think Elkhart Indiana was home to a bunch of brass/woodwind musical instrument makers back in the day. China isn’t having good success taking over that world (that I know of).

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 09:11:43

While the green shoots bottom callers are eagerly claiming a bottom is at hand, it appears the eventual impact on consumption spending of the massive decline in American household net worth has barely even begun to register. As Professor Phelps suggests, the adjustment is likely to play out over more than a decade. Fasten your seat belts!

American Incomes Head Down, Threatening Recovery in Spending
By Shobhana Chandra

Aug. 5 (Bloomberg) — Household income in the U.S. is weakening as the influence of the government’s stimulus plan wanes, prompting economists, Federal Reserve officials and a Nobel laureate to warn that consumer spending may struggle.

“Consumers have started to change their behavior and they are going to save more,” said Richard Berner, co-head of global economics at Morgan Stanley in New York and a former researcher at the Fed. “You have pressure on wages, you have employment still declining.”

Wages and salaries, which drive recoveries in spending, fell 4.7 percent in the 12 months through June, the biggest drop since records began in 1960, according to Commerce Department figures released yesterday. The Obama administration’s tax cuts, extended jobless benefits and a one-time Social Security bonus have helped mask the damage done by the worst employment slump since the Great Depression.

One of every 10 American workers will be without a job by early 2010, economists project, shaking the confidence of those still on payrolls and discouraging spending. It may take as long as 15 years for consumers to fully repair finances battered by the decline in home values, stocks and employment, said Edmund Phelps, winner of the Nobel prize in economics in 2006.

Shrinking Net Worth

Decreasing pay is not the only hurdle for consumers. Plunging home prices and stocks reduced household net worth by a record $13.9 trillion from the third quarter of 2007 through this year’s first quarter, according to figures from the Fed.

“Households are going to have to do an awful lot of rebuilding of their wealth,” Phelps, a professor at Columbia University in New York, said this week in an interview on Bloomberg Television. “Even if that rebuilding goes on at a pretty good clip, it will take 12 or 15 years for households to get to the wealth level that they had several years ago. Consumer demand is going to take a long time to rebuild to normal levels.

Comment by cactus
2009-08-05 12:46:04

Saving in US dollars ?

I wonder if a dollar crash would change that ?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 13:18:33

I think that our economy is too dependent on consumer spending. It’s something like two thirds of GDP.

Meanwhile, over in Japan, consumer spending is more like 50% of GDP.

Disclaimer: Please feel free to correct me on these figures.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 13:56:47

Consumer demand is going to take a long time to rebuild to normal levels.”

What the he.ll.
What the heck is Normal levels?

This past time period has only been flamboyantly ridiculous.
Nothing normal about this past 8yrs + at all.

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-05 15:33:46

+1

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 09:40:34

What exactly is the personal savings rate measuring? I can’t find a specific definition anywhere.

Comment by packman
2009-08-05 09:54:40

It’s quite complicated. Info can be found here:

http://www.bea.gov/national/index.htm

Generally it’s just income minus expenses, divided by income. Debt pay-down of principle is not considered an expense, though payments of principle are.

E.g. if you make $10k, and of that:

$7k is towards general expenses (food, clothes, utilities, etc.)
$2k is towards mortgage, with $1k towards interest and $1k towards principal
$1k goes into a savings account.

then you’re “saving” $2k ($1k in savings account + $1k less mortgage debt). So your savings rate would be 20%, which I think is 20.0 on their scale.

At least that’s how I think it’s generally calculated.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 10:09:35

My actual question is ‘how does a mortgaged house purchase affect my own personal savings rate for that year?’ If it’s a $100,000 house, is that counted against my ’savings rate’ that year? If so, the personal savings rate is really more of an inverse personal leveraging rate, no?

Comment by Muggy
2009-08-05 10:15:18

Good point, imagine if we did “mark-to-market” of everyone’s personal finances? I really feel good about my families’ situation. Thank you, Alpha.

Debt free is a nice way of floating down the river.

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Comment by InMontana
2009-08-05 10:22:07

Yep. But I’m saving less now than I did during the boom.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-08-05 10:28:30

“Yep. But I’m saving less now than I did during the boom.”

I’m spending way more because of the baby. Making about the same (wife makes less, I make more)… those little critters are expensive!

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 10:32:02

Most people are probably saving less now (in the sense of how much $ they set aside) because of less income. But if fewer people are buying houses, it will still look like a rise in the savings rate. That’s my point, I think, about personal savings rate really being in inverse personal leveraging rate. An economic slowdown, and its accompanying lack of borrowing, will translate into a higher savings rate even though no one actually is putting more $ away. It doesn’t seem to measure what it claims to measure.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-05 10:28:02

I believe that’s correct (I posted a response but it’s got a link so may take a while), but to be honest am not positive. Much the same is if you had run up $100k debt on your credit card, it counts as negative savings.

Yeah you may have a $100k asset now to offset it, such that your net worth is still unchanged, but that’s true of credit card spending as well - e.g. if you now had $100k of clothes your net worth would still be unchanged. But of course its not that simple - maybe you spent the $100k partly on clothes and partly on food.

So in the end I think they don’t include physical assets (including houses) in the savings rate; so therefore if you buy a house your savings rate goes way down for that year, but by the same token when you sell the house your savings rate is super high, since the $100k would count as income.

That all being said - it’s odd that the savings rate didn’t actually go down further than it did during the housing boom 2000-2006, aside from the big drop in 2005. I think perhaps it’s because the new debt for homeowners was mostly offset by the income boom for homebuilders.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
 
 
 
Comment by The_Overdog
2009-08-05 12:29:16

I believe the common definition is:

Savings: After Tax income (not including 401k, etc) + After Tax Capital Gains - Expenses.

IE, basically, what’s left over in your bank account after you pay your bills.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 14:06:43

which would be about squat cause so many folks just keep spending spending spending.

Ask how many have a liquid emergency fund on top of their savings and 401ks?
Now that alone oughta get a much different response.
I think.

Penny jars don’t count!

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Comment by The_Overdog
2009-08-05 14:19:36

Which would be about squat cause so many folks just keep spending spending spending.

Exactly! Which is why the savings rate was negative!How’s it go negative? We all know that don’t we? HELOC & drain the 401k, if it’s not already drained.

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-08-05 22:32:02

Savings = Money you dont need, because if you needed it, you would spend it, and it wouldnt be savings..

 
 
 
 
Comment by patient renter
2009-08-05 12:56:44

I don’t need the BEA to tell me what my mattress already knows.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 14:07:54

What, that it is lumpy?

hehe

Princess a.t. Pea.

 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-05 08:50:08

Is this the ‘Cash4Clunkerz Top’ ? I certainly hope so. I can’t take too much more.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:02:38

I get mad whenever anybody asks me about that stupid program. The best part is how foreign cars are the best sellers in this program. Yep, that’s reeeeally helping the big 3.

If they’d made it so you had to buy american to get the deal, I bet a large percentage of people would have kept their ‘clunkers’.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 09:09:59

I hope that, if nothing else, C4C sends the Big 3 a message. As in, if you make fuel efficient cars, Americans will buy them.

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-05 13:46:59

But not everyone cares about fuel efficiency. I’ll take a less efficient car that doesn’t fall apart or have to be in the shop all the time. I was eyeballing used BMW M5s till I found out they get 13mpg in the city. Doh.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-05 09:12:56

The thing that pisses me off about it is the _massive_ waste of taking perfectly-good vehicles, parts, etc, and intentionally destroying them.

It is broken-windows economic theory at its best. Or worst, because it is being implemented on a nationwide basis.

Such stupidity amazes and depresses me.

Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 12:38:45

The thing that pisses me off about it is the _massive_ waste of taking perfectly-good vehicles, parts, etc, and intentionally destroying them.

I briefly considered the program until I realized I’d have to borrow more money than I wanted to downsize from my Explorer.

I told a friend last night, when I heard they were going to run the motors with a solvent until it seized up I felt sort of like the kid who finds out that the troublesome dog he used to have DIDN’T go to live on a farm.

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Comment by Michael Viking
2009-08-05 12:47:27

It reminds me of plowing under crops and killing livestock during the depression.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-05 15:24:16

Excellent analogy, Michael. Yeah, there’s nothing like destroying output when there isn’t enough to go around, eh?

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 13:16:38

Sort of sets the stage for some serious home demolitions, too. You know, to stimulate the economy and keep prices ‘normal’.

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Comment by packman
2009-08-05 13:18:10

Yes unfortunately. It’s already happening actually, though so far I think mainly in areas that have homes that are too far gone to fix up (e.g. Detroit).

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 14:10:43

drove by the auto zone and saw many cars spray painted with
clunkers all over perfectly ‘good’ autos.

It hits you when you see the loss.

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Comment by packman
2009-08-05 14:14:31

Euthenasia for cars

Sad indeed.

 
Comment by sfrenter
2009-08-05 15:07:27

IMHO, what I look forward to the most as a result of this crash is less crap being manufactured and less crap going into the landfills and the oceans.

Our planet cannot sustain the level of consumption we have been creating. It pisses me off that so much of the “solution” is to try and get people to buy more stuff.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 23:51:30

100 % correct. Amazing, how right you are.

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Comment by Steve W
2009-08-05 09:20:50

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised by the buying results. Ford is still doing well (couple cars in top 10 of new purchases with this program) and it is mostly smaller cars with good MPG. I was worried that people would be trading in their Hummer for some other behemoth that happens to barely make the MPG improvement.

Still doesn’t mean I wanted the govt to spend my money doing so, but happier than I was a few weeks ago. Slightly.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:35:08

The government’s unceasing call for consumers to take on more debt just underscores the fact that they’re throwing the few of us who are even mildly responsible with our money under the bus.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 09:53:15

Yes, but you must understand that the sheeple have to remain in debtorhood. It’s the new serfdom!

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-08-05 10:06:12

+ “I can’t type a big enough number”

Silly debt pushing gov’t - pffft to their $4,500 or $8,000 - but 7~8% might be nice!

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-05 11:14:07

Don’t people have to go through a credit check before they buy the car.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 12:19:02

Depends. Suppose I wanted to buy a gutted frame, no tranny, 61 Ford Falcon Deluxe, 170 special. Then, further suppose, he wanted 50 bucks. I had fifty bucks. I gave it to him. I didn’t credit check, at that moment.

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2009-08-05 11:25:14

“for some other behemoth that happens to barely make the MPG improvement.”

Don’t be too sure. I doubt that we will get the real picture for some time but putting more people into debt will not increase the disposable income to help out other retail businesses.
BTW, buy the car now, six months from now file BK and renegotiate the loan lower. Get your $4800 now from the Fed’s and the rest from your bank or CU.

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Comment by measton
2009-08-05 12:17:28

BINGO

Cash for Clunkers will
Hurt hurt not just used car sales, and mechanics (all american employees) but it will also hurt restaurants, home improvement companies, recreation companies, airlines ect as people have less money to spend on other things. This is a short sited fix to prop the market up a little longer and kick the can down the road a little further.

 
 
Comment by patient renter
2009-08-05 12:58:19

As many a wise commentator is pointing out, this is not increasing consumption so much as it is shifting it forward from the future until now, and at the expense of many perfectly good workng vehicles. This is about as stupid a policy as they come.

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Comment by Kim
2009-08-05 09:30:26

My Toyota is more American than many of the Big 3’s cars.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:38:32

That’s probably true. Toyota has some plants in the U.S. My wife and I both have Toyotas. If an american car company had made something worth buying, we would have considered it. I was pointing out that the Cash 4 Clunkers isn’t helping the weak american car companies all that much. Ford is apparently doing pretty well, but they didn’t need help in the first place. If I were a Ford employee, I’d be livid at the grossly unfair practices the government is implementing on behalf of their competitors.

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Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-05 13:47:14

The goal is to run Ford out of business, now that GM and Chrysler are government owned.

I would imagine that very few individuals would purchase GM or Chrysler vehicles by 2016 by choice. Get rid of Ford, and tariff the hell out of Toyota / Honda / Nissan / Hyundai and Kia. Voila! Problem solved.

 
 
Comment by patient renter
2009-08-05 10:06:46

That’s just what I was thinking. “American made” is relative nowdays.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-08-05 11:16:33

Incest is all relative too.

 
Comment by rms
2009-08-05 21:15:03

“Incest is all relative too.”

+1 LMAO!

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-08-05 10:08:27

Right, and this whole gimmick would have been much more palatable if it was intended to help healthy manufacturers instead of paying back a particular voting bloc.

Luckily the people seem to be correcting that on their own.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 10:32:40

No poop.

 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2009-08-05 11:03:08

The top ten selling C4C cars:
1) Ford Focus (made in Michigan)
2) Toyota Corolla (made in California & Ontario)
3) Honda Civic (production shifted from Ohio to Indiana early this year)
4) Toyota Prius (made in Japan)
5) Toyota Camry (made in Indiana & Kentucky)
6) Ford Escape (made in Missouri)
7) Hyundai Elantra (made in Korea & Russia)
8) Dodge Caliber (made in Illinois)
9) Honda Fit (made in Japan & Thailand)
10) Chevy Cobalt (made in Ohio)

The vast majority of workers building the cars are Americans with a few Canadians thrown into the mix.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 12:26:59

Corolla still made in Cali?

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Comment by Brian in Chicago
2009-08-05 14:57:22

Not beyond August, according to Toyota. GM dumped the NUMMI plant on Toyota in their bankruptcy and Toyota doesn’t want to be the sole operator.

Of course, California congress-people could meddle in the affairs of GM again and come up with a solution that Toyota is happy with and avoid a complete shutdown with the resulting Bay-area job losses…

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 12:28:37

Good post Brian.

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Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 12:41:37

Dodge Caliber (made in Illinois)

Why do you have a smilie next to this god-awful thing?

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 12:59:31

I wondered the same thing. That’s my least fave on the list. (Well, maybe after the Cobalt.)

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 12:59:41

That IS funny lavi! :)

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-05 13:50:41

The smile is triggered by the 8 then the )

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 14:39:46

The smile is triggered by the 8 then the )

Ha! I should have figured that out.

Thanks.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 14:42:35

The smile is triggered by the 8 then the )

8\)?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 14:57:04

mr 8 always plays it cool 8)

He’s still drinking the cool-8

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 21:53:22

(sic) Kool-8.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 01:37:29

8)

 
 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-08-05 12:50:01

Also a lot of BMW’s built in Georgia.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 13:22:03

Mercedes Benz has a plant in Alabama. It’s the ‘Bama Benz plant.

 
 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 10:00:44

Don’t we the public now own 60% of GM? We gotta start thinking like business owners..

Our company is in trouble. We don’t want to see it fail. We need people to buy cars.
So, we have a huge “sale”… use some gimmick that won’t cost us a lot of money but brings in lots of buyers..

How about a trade-in program?
“We’ll give you $5,000 for your trade in, running or not!
or, even better, let’s add a twist. Why not play on public concern for the environment with “We’ll take your low mileage clunker.”

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 13:36:17

People who drive GMs can go 10 mph over the speed limit? Have higher blood/alcohol levels? GM would rule! Taxpayers would make some scratch.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 13:47:50

were it not for that little phrase, “equal protection under the law”, it might fly..

But GM cannot do some special promotion on it’s own. While we (govt) are it’s owners, government also controls other companies indirectly through things like mandates and regulations, and it would undoubtedly be ruled a conflict of interest if GM were somehow favored over other manufacturers.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-05 15:09:29

Brilliant!

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Comment by CACV
2009-08-05 12:46:40

Thank you administration for turning my $6,000 trade-in into a $4,500 gift. Thanks for taking all the negociating out of it and equating the worst POS with my better than average vehicle. I suppose the dealers won’t mind lowering their prices to compensate.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 22:25:53

No Sh*t.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-05 08:59:41

U.S. Farmland Values Fall for First Time Since 1987.

Aug. 4 (Bloomberg) — U.S. farmland values declined last year for the first time since 1987 as the country suffered the worst housing crisis since the Great Depression.

The value of all land and buildings on farms averaged $2,100 an acre at the start of this year, down 3.2 percent from a revised $2,170 a year earlier, the U.S. Department of Agriculture said today in an annual report. The change compares with a 19 percent drop in urban home prices.

Agricultural commodities including corn, wheat and soybeans plunged from records last year, as the recession worsened and the world’s farmers increased production of some crops. The USDA expects net-farm income to drop 20 percent this year to $71.3 billion from last year’s record.

“Valuations are running sideways,” said Jeff Conrad, a managing director at Hancock Agricultural Investment Group in Boston, which manages about $1.1 billion of farmland. Conrad said prices are beginning to rise again this year on signs of economic recovery.

The most expensive farmland in the U.S. was in Rhode Island at $15,300 an acre, followed by New Jersey at $13,800, according to the USDA. The cheapest was in New Mexico, at $480 an acre. Northeast states were the most expensive of the 10 regions in the lower 48 states tracked by the USDA, with an average price of $4,830 an acre.

Cheapest Land

The least-expensive area was the Mountain states, at $922 an acre. Values fell most in Montana, where farmland plunged 22 percent to $700 an acre. Prices in Corn Belt states including Iowa and Illinois fell 2.2 percent to $3,620 an acre.

A boom in commodity prices followed by a bust sent wheat down 31 percent last year on the Chicago Board of Trade, while soybeans fell 19 percent and corn declined 11 percent. Each of the crops had set record highs during the year.

Comment by rms
2009-08-05 21:21:07

The U.S. imports more food than it exports, several years now.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-05 09:03:40

The Inflation vs Deflation debate continues. Your financial future depends on which will prevail, and when. “Before inflation shows up as a result of the inflated money supply, the massive equity loss in real estate, lost wages, etc.–deflationary events–has to be absorbed,” says George Kleinman. “The government can increase money supply, but if people are unwilling to spend it, and save or pay off debts instead, deflation can occur because the money in circulation can drop even while the money supply is increasing.”

Kleinman includes a startling quote from Dr. Ben Bernanke who answered a question from Rep. Ron Paul.

Ben Bernanke: ” ‘Inflation’ is the change in the price of the consumer price level, which is very stable right now, and the various measure of money, as you know, in the broad measures of money, the measures that cut the measures of money in circulation like M1 and M2 are not growing quickly.”

An amazing response from the Fed’l Reserve chief. And wrong, too. Rising prices are the result of monetary inflating, not inflation itself. This is a well established fact in economics and even reliable dictionaries define it that way.

Comment by InMontana
2009-08-05 14:07:40

gee that inspires confidence…not.

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-05 09:05:36

GS = Gov’t Secure!

Mr. Bear, silly me, I forgotten the definition of “Capitalism” …could you help me out? :-)

“But the fact that so many of their competitors are out of business or severely wounded has put them in a very strong position. :-)

FDIC Backing

“Banks such as Goldman Sachs are benefiting from lower borrowing costs after the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. in October started guaranteeing bank debt issues that mature within three years.”

“It’s very counterintuitive to think that they’d be able to generate this much profit and this much revenue in the middle of an ongoing recession,”

Goldman Sachs $100 Million Trading Days Reach Record:

Aug. 5 (Bloomberg) By Christine Harper

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 09:13:05

I’ve forgotten the definition of “trust busting”…

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 09:24:49

It’s when your elected officials do things so in-your-face bass-ackwards that you finally stop believing they’re trying to do the right thing.

I think it used to mean something about busting up cartels. :D

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-05 09:37:29

I’ve forgotten the definition of “trust busting”…

Sigh.

Time for some Bull Moose era trust-bustin’. It’s long overdue, in fact.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 10:39:02

What did you say about busts?…

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 10:54:02

no trusts…no busts?

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 11:02:18

Could be… you never know.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 11:06:47

unless we bust those trusts

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 12:04:55

we must, we must,
we must go bust those trusts

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 12:08:48

we must,
we must,
expose those busts! :)

 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-05 09:20:52

It is our responsibility: Anybody who knows anyone who works for Goldman-Sachs should completely ignore the Goldmans. Don’t do business with them, do not speak with them, do not support them in any way. The same should go for any congressman or government decision-maker. I personally don’t have exposure to a Goldman, but if I ever encounter one I will smear dog feces on his car with glee.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-05 09:49:09

This goes to my commetn made to joey yesterday. The GS mafiosos aren’t telling their peeps to lay low because they are scared of the government. They are the government! I wonder if they have internal polling that indicates the pleebs are really close to the boiling point.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 12:57:44

So you really think they’re scared of some kinda popular uprising…

There have been tests run on the potential problem. How long would an uprising last and how to quell one without too much civilian bloodshed?
Just cut off electricity and water, food shipments, etc. to a population, cordon off the area and it’ll go for about a week, tops, before their anger is spent and they cave.

——-
The MSM instigated all this.. they know how juicy and profitable class warfare can be. Politicians use it and are successful with the same tactic but in this situation government is caught in the middle. They don’t want to appear to favor a minority, especially a wealthy one..

Whoever approves of limiting contractually agreed upon salaries or bonuses in in league with the MSM and big government and is actively anti-Constitutional. Think about that.

Comment by dude
2009-08-05 21:48:35

It looks like Ben saved me from myself on my reply. Let’s just say I ripped your faulty argument to shreds and made a prescient prediction of how this will play out.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 22:35:47

Lets just say… Lets just say Ben’s a nice guy. Maybe your response was so obviously weak he was protecting you from a devastating rejoinder..

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-05 22:58:27

Are you a liberal arts major by any chance?

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 23:01:00

Yea, what he said. Ben saved you from all our piling on, which gets hot in the summertime.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-06 09:34:19

Piling on? I never said anything about voiding contracts. My beef is with an obvious pattern of “most favored company” decrees.

Regulation should be limited, and crony capitalism should be banned.

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 22:53:27

Keep telling yourself that, Joey.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 12:06:04

DANGER: MORAL HAZARD WARNING!!!

My guess: The inquires will lead at most to a wrist slap relative to the size of the TARP-generated profits (reference my post in yesterday’s bits bucket regarding Bank of America’s wrist slap for an example of what I mean).

Wall Street Journal

* AUGUST 5, 2009, 1:14 P.M. ET

UPDATE: Goldman Receives Inquiries On Pay, Derivatives

(Updates with additional details; information on pay packages, investigation)

By Joe Bel Bruno
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)–Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (GS) on Wednesday said its second-quarter results might have attracted some unwanted attention from the government.

The investment bank said in a regulatory filing that the government has launched investigations into pay practices and credit derivatives trading. Goldman said it was cooperating with the request, but declined to give further details.

The inquiries come after Goldman stunned Wall Street last month by posting the biggest quarterly profit in its 140-year history. And, less than a year after it received government aid, the firm reported it set aside $11.4 billion for employee compensation.

The company’s resurgence comes at a sensitive time in Washington as lawmakers scrutinize exorbitant Wall Street pay packages as the rest of the nation grapples with a painful recession. The big bonuses for bankers and traders are widely blamed for encouraging the kind of risk taking that led to the financial crisis.

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-08-05 09:09:16

Real estate speculators in murder-suicide:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/04/BATT191559.DTL

He had met Agustin five years ago while renovating her house. They became partners, buying and flipping houses that he fixed up, said San Diego police Lt. Terry McManus. But when the market crumbled, they lost money and lost properties to foreclosure, prompting tension.

At one time the couple lived together, but their romance fizzled, Torres’ sisters said. They said he realized she was unstable and perhaps dangerous, but never got a restraining order.

Sometime after 5 p.m. on July 19, Agustin went to see Torres in the converted garage of a home he was renovating, police said. She shot him with a pistol she had bought…

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 12:30:14

The Big Flip

 
Comment by Anon In DC
2009-08-05 13:14:05

Gosh how many of you said this type of thing would happen. And you were right.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 15:29:07

“Didn’t even finish the reshingling!”

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-08-05 15:36:39

It’s interesting that the article makes a point of his not getting a restraining order…..but goes on to state that a restraining order in the previous case didn’t prevent a murder either.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-06 06:35:08

That is a terribly sad article.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-08-05 09:21:10

Is the stock market now a bubble, as a result of absorbing excess liquidity that doesn’t want to go into (low rate high default) bonds, cannot get a return in cash, and has been burned in real estate and commodities?

Those PEs are getting awfully high, even given that the “E” is cyclically depressed by recession. I expect “E” to be structurally restrained by workers no longer able to be paid less and spend more, borrowing the difference, and more and more of what could have been “E” diverted to excess executive compensation and pensions.

Comment by dude
2009-08-05 09:50:35

“Is the stock market now a bubble”

…or are we going the way of Zimbabwe?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 13:34:54

It’s a great time (for the moment) to be long in US stocks or certain foreign currencies. For an example of the latter, consider the following illustration for the Norwegian krone:

Krone per dollar exchange rates:

3-Mar-09 7.28
5-Aug-09 6.0085

Elapsed Days 155

Annualized rate-of-return to having purchased krone with dollars and holding them since March 3: 56%

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 13:36:39

Here’s the calculation (copy and paste into Google’s search line if you want to check):

((7.28/6.0085)^(360/155)-1)*100

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-05 13:42:31

Chuck Butler called this one right on the money. He specifically called out the Norwegian Krone in his newsletter a few months ago - either March or April I think.

 
 
 
Comment by Lionel
2009-08-05 09:21:26

Something to digest…

Technical market strength seen in resistance to repeated bear efforts since July 18; very low recent volume attributed to stocks in strong hands (”in the hands of interests not to be frightened by professional drives”). Recent rally having been digested, market considered in good technical shape for further advance.

Market action still seen driven mostly by professionals, not much public or outside buying seen. Conservative observers still believe sustained uptrend unlikely until market breaks through previous resistance levels on good volume.

When was this observation made?

August 3, 1930

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-08-05 10:01:17

That put a knot in my stomach.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 10:28:10

Recall that the market didn’t bottom until 1932. And it didn’t get back to its pre-Great Crash high until 1954.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 10:41:31

Mine too, edge.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-05 10:30:07

Love it, maybe I will make money on my latest speculation (another “put” on the Diamonds index).

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 10:49:57

source?

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 10:55:41

Sorceross:

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-08-05 11:52:14

Despite my itchy fingers, a trader friend of mine is vigorously discouraging me from buying in right now.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-08-05 10:27:22

Is anyone else actively looking at foreclosures, observing local market trends? Weaker neighborhoods have crashed 100K or more in my area (Jax, FL). Established neighborhoods are sticky but falling. I’m seeing a lot of affordable VA and FNM foreclosures. I expect further price declines, however.

Comment by Kim
2009-08-05 10:55:11

I’ve looked at a couple recently. I’ve noticed they are staying on the market long enough for regular folk like me to get a look at them (flippers are not buying them as quickly as before). Also, the further out from Chicago, the greater the drops have been; the price drop “wave” appears to be moving towards the city.

One agent I talked to said she is seeing some sales, which didn’t surprise me because we’re in a “dead cat bounce”, school is starting, and time is running out for the $8K credit.

I think we still have a lot of room on the downside, because I am seeing a lot more “ghost houses” and increasing NODs on RealtyTrac. There is “pent up supply”.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-05 21:58:21

I’m in escrow on one.

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 03:01:30

Do share when you get a chance, dude! :)

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-05 10:32:26

The latest on my cuz Sherry who has had a Maine house on the market since November w/o asking price change. Her agent is saying “NOTHING” is moving. Pure BS. Seventy houses were sold in her county in June at a median price of $185K, down slightly from June 08 median of $197K. Sherry’s house: $399K asking. No offers since November, and only two “lookers.” I don’t know if the agent is insane, or if Sherry is lying (to me) about her own willingness to reduce the price.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 11:14:26

No offers since November, and only two “lookers.” I don’t know if the agent is insane, or if Sherry is lying (to me) about her own willingness to reduce the price.

AZ, just remember that real estate agents are a particularly low and odious form of life. When we were selling 4 years ago I kept saying, “we need to lower the price”. The agent kept saying that we just had to be patient. I had 60 or 70 showings and no offer. I fired that idiot and brought in the guy we had used before. We lowered the price $20,000 and had the house sold within 10 days. I don’t know what the point of my story is but I like stories.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-05 11:19:50

Fire the agent, or off with its head ;)

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 11:40:32

I got the point of your story. Plus, San Fran Gal, my rider wouldn’t accomodate the life insurance I would need with you.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-05 11:42:18

AZ I”ll bet she owes $350K on it….ya think?

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-08-05 10:36:46

WOW. I just flipped through some listings in ‘hoods I haven’t looked up in a while. There are some crazy price drops in Pinellas. I have to say, if I was planning on staying, I would make offers.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 10:43:11

Lived there. What? 70%?

 
 
Comment by Anon In DC
2009-08-05 10:48:00

Hi. DinOr sorry about your lost, take care.

Eastcoaster and some others who want to buy are impatient that the bubble correction is moving too slowly. But is it ? Look how it has come along just as predicted by many here. Seems to me there’s been lots of progress in the past two years. Where will we be two years from now ?
P.S There used to be a poster called Texas Chic. She day traded a lot and had French pug dogs. What happen to her ?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 12:40:17

She quit posting here because of Aladinsane.

Comment by packman
2009-08-05 13:09:11

Did she say that? I wasn’t aware of her posting a reason, though of course they butted heads a lot.

One would think she’d know he was gone and come back and post then.

I think in reality they were lovers who just used the board for spatting. Then they ran off down under together and made up. :-)

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 13:27:37

went overseize in a yellow submarine

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 21:38:45

We all live in a Yellow Submarine! A Yellow Submarine, A Yellow Submarine!!! :)

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 21:40:25

That would be a happy ending.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-05 14:53:08

She was banned from posting.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 22:41:09

Oh.
Thanks SFOgal.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 23:07:27

I miss them both greatly. Although I suspect one of them is back….

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-06 00:43:59

Do you?

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Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 03:03:24

Who? And under what name?

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-08-05 11:12:33

Hi Guys:

My second try at posting the pics from Monday night. Please let me know if you think of better captions. Enjoy!

http://picasaweb.google.com/SanDiegoREBear/HBBSanDiegoAugust2009#

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-05 14:28:39

Cool pics……amazing little blog Ben has….I know one day Ben will get his due, and hopefully it will include tons of benjaminzzzzzz

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-08-05 15:48:41

Wow. Professor Bear is a skinny dude. Who would have thunk. I would have expected him to be chubbier and more…well…bear like.

 
Comment by rms
2009-08-05 21:38:49

Looked like the weather was nice; need at least one horizon shot.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 22:48:24

Fabulous stuff.

Big V seems to be really tickled by the bailout.

And all the folks..nice to see you.

Ben, do you compress much?!?!!!!!
I know, it sounds like a personal question, or workout question , hehehe

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 23:13:59

Nice work REBEAR! Thanks so much for posting these.

 
 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-05 11:24:41

Well, well…

housingwire dot com/2009/08/05/moodys-says-us-may-wind-down-fannie-freddie/

“Regulators may begin to wind down government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac within the next 18 months, Moody’s said Monday in a global banking analysis report.”

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 11:35:10

That’s the best dang news all day!

Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 11:40:17

That’s the best dang news all day!

Actually, I made an offer for their debt and it was accepted.

I’m paying about $35.99US for all of their outstanding mortgages.

And I’m going to be checking on all of them. So mow your damn lawns and get those mosquitoes out of the swimming pools.

I want my properties looking sharp, people!

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-08-05 14:29:43

Boy did you overpay! :D

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 22:50:35

snake eyes!

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 11:35:30

“Regulators may begin to wind down government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac within the next 18 months, “

And I “MAY” grow a third testicle before leaving work today. It could happen!

Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 12:23:19

And I “MAY” grow a third testicle before leaving work today. It could happen!

We all gotta have goals.

 
 
Comment by bink
2009-08-05 11:36:37

If that truly comes to pass, I imagine the story will read like this:

“The wicked witch of the east is dead!”*

*: The wicked witch of the east has been replaced by the wicked witch of the west.

Maybe I’m just a pessimist.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 11:40:06

You’re probably right. They’d just charter a new company with a mandate to hand out ninja loans until everybody owned a house.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-05 11:57:20

“The wicked witch of the east has been replaced by the wicked witch of the west.”

Well, there is still the FHA.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 12:02:54

Should this news be trusted? Why would their share prices rocket up by double digits today if they were really about to be deep-sixed?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 12:17:20

Does seem rather odd to have your share price shoot up as they announce your imminent demise. But we’re through the looking glass now, aren’t we?

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-05 12:23:58

I think someone is just trying to float the idea. Makes for an interesting discussion. It would tank the hopes of nearly all the knifecatchers left in the housing market.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 12:49:02

I frankly find the idea implausible. Aren’t the GSEs playing a crucial role in reflating the housing market as we type?

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 13:06:37

The article says they’d replace them with another GSE. Might I suggest ‘Federal Underwriting of Consumer Credit for Economic Development’ for a name? Make an accurate anagram.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 13:08:04

acronym

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 13:22:08

“…for a name?”

You misspelled Kredit.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 13:29:14

Might I suggest ‘Federal Underwriting of Consumer Credit for Economic Development’ for a name?

Genius.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-08-06 09:29:54

By “wind down” they mean “the bad debt will be heaped on the taxpayers while the worthless executives get big bonuses and are given powerful positions in the bottom-feeder GSE that takes over for Fannie and Freddie.”

 
 
Comment by Ann Gogh
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 13:28:34

Thanks. Those photos just made my day.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:31:41

Thanks for the memories (seriously!)…

 
Comment by rms
2009-08-05 21:52:47

Thanks for the horizon and sky shots!

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 03:12:22

Thanks, Ann!

So good to see you again. We have to have local meet-ups more often.

:)

 
 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-05 11:27:12

OT: wanted to share with you all an interview I had just over a week ago. This company has been interviewing me for about 2 months now in Silicon Valley (due to travel, vacation, etc. its been a loooong process). I finally got to meet the last VPs, one of whom was the VP of HR. You are not going to believe this. He fell asleep during the interview! I kid you not. I was stunned, my mouth dropped, my eyes went round and I blurted out “you aren’t sleeping are you?” - I had visions of him clunking his head on the table and I was simply too amazed to think through what I actually should have said.

I didn’t get the job.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 11:32:17

ya didn’t even nab his wallet.. i wouldn’t hire you either! No initiative!

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 11:37:28

I didn’t get the job.

…zzznork! Huh?

Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 23:20:07

LOL, Lavi.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-08-05 11:38:47

Don’t be offended, he’s probably working three jobs to pay his mortgage.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 11:43:25

I was stunned, my mouth dropped, my eyes went round and I blurted out “you aren’t sleeping are you?”

Yep. The same thing happened with my wife about two weeks ago. I asked for my twenty dollars back.

Comment by rfw
2009-08-05 13:20:34

LOL!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 22:54:47

Double LOL omg. nyc did you remember to pull the nightgown down at least?

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-06 00:53:45

:)

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-08-05 11:45:54

Sounds like my kinda company!

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-08-05 11:57:38

Follow it up with a light hearted note to salvage the opportunity. A little mocksey goes a long ways. You have nothing to lose.
Note to self: Bring a small pillow to interviews.

 
Comment by bink
2009-08-05 12:16:42

You should have tucked him in, left, and then sent an email the next day assuming you got the position. Don’t openly mention blackmail.. just assume he knows. ;)

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 13:41:58

Maybe he fakes sleeping to test your response. If so, your response was clearly not what he was looking for. But what is he looking for? Is Joey right with his steal-his-wallet theory?

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-05 14:24:39

Sounds like you must be boring in interviews :-)

Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-05 15:15:29

I guess I’ll never really know if I didn’t get the job because of that, will I? Kinda sad really, because I did want that one.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-06 00:11:20

you really want to work there?

if so, press the issue. Some dunce falling asleep shouldn’t stop you.

First off, he may have not hired you simply because he didn’t want his falling asleep to go any further. If that’s the case, one of his VP competitors (you can be sure they exist) would love to hear about it. Alternatively, a letter from your attorney to one of his superiors might be in order… play tough if you have to. Being agressive in thought and action is often appreciated by a business..

otoh, if you do succeed in getting in, you’d enter the company with enemies and friends already established.. gonna be a rough but interesting ride from there..

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Comment by rms
2009-08-05 22:01:28

“You are not going to believe this. He fell asleep during the interview! I kid you not. I was stunned…”

Rent, “Breaker Morant”, a Kangaroo court story. The verdict is known before the trial starts.

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2009-08-05 11:41:12

Some pricing in CA, this is for a listing in Templeton on the market 180 days with 83 viewings:
07/23/2009 Price change $749,000
07/16/2009 Price change $779,000
06/25/2009 Price change $799,000
06/04/2009 Price change $849,000
02/09/2009 Price change $899,000
01/29/2009 Price change $977,000
Another in Arroyo Grande has been up for 41days had a 104 viewings priced @ $795
Another in Templeton,CA 180+ days with 241 viewings:

08/01/2009 Price change $489,000
07/09/2009 Price change $499,900
03/22/2009 Price change $509,900
02/26/2009 Price change $519,000
12/31/2008 Price change $539,000
12/05/2008 Price change $569,000
11/22/2008 Price change $574,000
11/01/2008 Price change $579,900
10/09/2008 Price change $589,000
08/28/2008 Price change $599,900
08/20/2008 Price change $624,000

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 22:57:03

Like the lady in open house told us, they are following the mkt
down
down
down
down
down
down
down

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 11:50:14

Could someone please ’splain the connection between Lockhart’s resignation and the ginormous jump in GSE share prices? Something doesn’t smell right here…Perhaps the Fed is going to be put in charge of regulating the GSEs going forward?

market pulse

Aug 5, 2009, 2:31 p.m. EST
FHFA head James Lockhart to step down: reports

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — The head of the federal agency that oversees Fannie Mae (FNM 0.74, +0.17, +30.18%) and Freddie Mac (FRE 0.78, +0.17, +28.31%) , James Lockhart, is stepping down, according to media reports Wednesday, citing an unidentified administration official. The departure date of the Federal Housing Finance Agency head is uncertain, and no decision has been made about a long-term replacement, according to reports.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 12:01:14

Maybe investors thought him inept or asleep at the wheel… didn’t like the way he allowed $400B worth of subprime to be added to the GSE collection over the past couple years when it was obviously problematic to do so.. and have hopes the next head of the FHFA can’t do worse.

Comment by bink
2009-08-05 13:40:32

Also known as Fiorina-syndrome.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 03:17:05

The GSEs were forced to take on sub-prime.

After the fiascos in 2003/2004 with Freddie and Fannie, they were told to reduce their portfolios, raise reserves, and rein in risk. They were trying to do so, when a couple of years later, the PTB told them to open everything up and raise portfolio limits and lower reserve requirements again.

 
 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 12:04:05

Maybe they jumped because they expect a new guy who will force lending standards that would allow for profitablity, like 20% down fixed rate only.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-05 12:09:45

Please refer to my earlier post about growing a third testicle.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 13:33:44

I don’t believe it either. But a guy can dream, can’t he?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 12:10:49

One can hope, but isn’t the Obamanomics Dream Team riding the easy money, federally guaranteed mortgage market reflation train?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-05 15:22:06

Yes, yes they are. *sigh*

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Comment by measton
2009-08-05 12:26:02

Aug. 5 (Bloomberg) — Almost half of U.S. homeowners with a mortgage may owe more than their properties are worth before the housing recession ends, analysts at Deutsche Bank AG wrote in a report today.

The percentage of properties “underwater” is forecast to rise to 48 percent, or 25 million homes, as property prices drop through the first quarter of 2011, according to analysts Karen Weaver and Ying Shen

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 12:42:09

Assuming the Deutsche Bank analysts even might be right, why would anyone who is paying attention and who understands the magnitudes involved want to buy a home before 2011?

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-05 12:29:41

PARIS (AFP) – The once ironclad axiom that the wealthier a nation the lower its birthrate is reversed when countries pass a certain threshold of development, according to a study released Wednesday.

Most of the two dozen nations that have passed this tipping point — including Australia, Sweden, France, the United States and Britain — are enjoying modest baby booms, breaking a pattern of declining fertility that has held for decades if not longer.

I suspect it means that wealthier nations have imported a lot of poor people to drive down wages and that has resulted in an increase in birth rates.

Near the end of the article
Japan and South Korea would appear to be exceptions to the new findings, but the fact that both countries rank high on the HDI scale but have among the lowest fertility rates in the world may underscore the relatively unchanging status of women in both societies, the authors suggest.

Or it could be that these coutries have much lower immigration rates.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 13:29:59

I suspect it means that wealthier nations have imported a lot of poor people to drive down wages and that has resulted in an increase in birth rates.

There’s plenty of evidence of this in Arizona.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 23:25:28

The Baby Boomers’ babies are having babies.

 
 
Comment by Ann Gogh
2009-08-05 12:29:59

I posted the link from the other night, but it is in the monitor jail.
set my link free!

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-05 12:33:40

Where is OLY GAL? I really miss her. Sure others do too.

Comment by InMontana
2009-08-05 14:22:36

she was meeting up with an HBBer last we heard, right?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-05 15:45:18

Maybe not-a-gator really IS a gator- it’d be a brilliant cover- and he ATE her UP.

Or maybe she got carried into the inky depths by Moby GeoDick.

Or maybe she’s got one of those ‘life’ thingies.

Or maybe they’re still partying! (My favorite theory.)

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 12:46:48

Aren’t these the same financially savvy (under-30) Generation Y members who were buying homes at lofty prices circa 2005 when many older potential buyers were watching from the sidelines?

Financial lesson numero uno: REAL ESTATE DOES NOT ALWAYS GO UP.

Aug 5, 2009, 8:01 a.m. EST
Gen Y needs to save

Impatience, financial illiteracy could stunt a good retirement for young adults

By Christina Burton, MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — A lack of knowledge about finances could make planning for retirement much harder work for young adults.

Almost half — 47% — of Americans born between 1977 and 1994, also known as Generation Y, are below average when it comes to financial literacy, with little understanding of how to budget and save efficiently, according to a survey by the National Foundation for Credit Counseling.
Back-to-school money pinch

Back-to-school shopping is the second-biggest season for many retailers, but sales this year are expected to drop. Still, a new survey finds that how much is being spent and on what varies widely depending on the student’s grade level.

The survey, which polled 1,000 adults in March, also found that 45% of Generation Y adults have no savings.

Retirement savings are of particular concern for younger Americans because under current actuarial assumptions the Social Security trust fund will be exhausted in 2039, the year the first of Gen Y will turn 62, and benefits could be threatened unless changes are made.

Social Security Administration officials and financial planners continue to emphasize the importance of individual savings, retirement plans — 401(k) accounts and individual retirement accounts — and Social Security benefits for post-work income, what the SSA calls a “three legged stool.”

Both advise not relying solely on Social Security for retirement income.

Comment by bink
2009-08-05 13:37:06

Almost half — 47% — of Americans born between 1977 and 1994, also known as Generation Y, are below average when it comes to financial literacy

Almost half are below average? *blink blink*

Comment by packman
2009-08-05 13:45:53

Wow.

Almost half are below average in writing literacy too - I believe Christina would fall into that bucket.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-05 14:57:45

Precisely half minus one (*) are “below median” (actually less-than-or-equal) in numerical literacy too—including those who confuse below-average with below-median, as you are. :-)

It is easy to construct a data-set where 99% of the data-points are below-average. But almost exactly(**) 50% will be less than or equal to the median.

* (ignoring the edge-condition where you can’t pick the exact middle of a population of even size)

** (subject to above caveat, and ignoring massive equality exactly at the median-point)

Yours,

PedanticMan :-)

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-06 05:52:03

Who Cares!?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 13:49:14

The glass must be more than half full, as apparently 53% of Generation Y members are above average when it comes to financial literacy.

Comment by packman
2009-08-05 14:16:55

Clearly a “No-GenYer-Left-Behind” act will pull that up to 90% at least.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-08-05 15:54:52

Obviously they didn’t poll anyone at Lake Woebegone.

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-05 12:52:31

WASHINGTON – Billions of dollars the government is spending to help financially pressed homeowners avert foreclosure are passing through — and enriching — companies accused of preying on the people they’re supposed to help, an Associated Press investigation has found.

The companies, known as mortgage servicers, are middlemen who collect monthly payments from homeowners and funnel the money to the banks or investors who hold the loans. As the only link between borrowers and lenders, they’re in the best position to rework the terms of loans under the government’s $50 billion mortgage-reduction program. The companies earn a fee for every successful loan modification.

But the industry has a checkered history. The AP found that at least 30 servicers have been accused in lawsuits of harassing borrowers, imposing illegal fees and charging for unnecessary insurance policies. More recently, the companies also have been criticized for not helping homeowners quickly enough — delays that lead to more fees for homeowners and profits for servicers.

The biggest players in the servicing industry — Bank of America, Wells Fargo & Co., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Citigroup Inc. — all face litigation, some of which has led to settlements with homeowners. All will receive federal money to modify loans.

But the industry’s smaller players, which specialize in servicing riskier subprime loans and loans already in default, face harsher accusations that they systematically abused borrowers.

“The irony is, in essence, the government is paying servicers to do their job, which is to do loan modifications where appropriate,” said Kurt Eggert, a law professor at Chapman University in Orange, Calif. “And that’s not a part of their job they were ever especially good at.”

The government says it has no choice but to partner with the servicers because they are the only link between borrowers and the investors who indirectly own their mortgages through securities.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 13:10:43

..all face litigation, some of which has led to settlements..

Was the AP born yesterday? What big business isn’t facing litigation? Any of them?

I once worked for a roofer.. he had at least 3 lawsuits running all the time. Lucky for him, the AP never targeted roofers, afaik.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 13:21:07

“The government says it has no choice but to partner with the servicers…”

No choice? Just say no to interfering in private contracts.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-05 13:16:03

Crude prices had jumped from below $63 a barrel last week on investor optimism the U.S. economy, the world’s biggest oil consumer, is recovering from a severe recession.

But oil took a dive Wednesday after the Energy Department’s Energy Information Administration said crude inventories increased by nearly 2 million barrels. That means that in the past two weeks, about 7 million barrels of crude have been put into storage as consumers and businesses pull back.

Any economic recovery is going to rely heavily on consumers, and energy prices can dip when data suggests that people are tucking money away, rather than spending it.

On Wednesday the Institute for Supply Management reported that the services sector contracted more sharply than expected in July. The ISM showed that retailers, financial services, transportation and health care sectors experienced the 10th straight month of declines. Those businesses make up 80 percent of U.S. economic activity.

Still, retail gasoline prices continue to rise because refiners are cutting back on production.Crude prices had jumped from below $63 a barrel last week on investor optimism the U.S. economy, the world’s biggest oil consumer, is recovering from a severe recession.

But oil took a dive Wednesday after the Energy Department’s Energy Information Administration said crude inventories increased by nearly 2 million barrels. That means that in the past two weeks, about 7 million barrels of crude have been put into storage as consumers and businesses pull back.

Any economic recovery is going to rely heavily on consumers, and energy prices can dip when data suggests that people are tucking money away, rather than spending it.

On Wednesday the Institute for Supply Management reported that the services sector contracted more sharply than expected in July. The ISM showed that retailers, financial services, transportation and health care sectors experienced the 10th straight month of declines. Those businesses make up 80 percent of U.S. economic activity.

Still, retail gasoline prices continue to rise because refiners are cutting back on production.

Demand for petroleum products was about a million barrels a day greater last year than it is now, so refiners have been trying to prevent a collapse in prices by making less gas, jet fuel and diesel.

Demand for petroleum products was about a million barrels a day greater last year than it is now, so refiners have been trying to prevent a collapse in prices by making less gas, jet fuel and diesel.

So how is this not price fixing??????????????????????
Where the F is our gov????????

This is exactly why I have an 5 bikes for the family, an electric car, and an electric scooter. Screw all of them Opec,Exxon,Saudi Arabia, Goldman Sachs. Next stop a house and solar panels.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 13:47:22

This article offers an amazing shift in opinion from the opening paragraph to the closing one:

Special Report Second 100 Days
Buy foreclosures now - before it’s too late

In many markets, if you want to buy a repossessed property, you better come with your best offer first — and fast.

By Les Christie, CNNMoney dot com staff writer
Last Updated: August 5, 2009: 12:37 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — You’ve heard of speed dating? It’s got nothin’ on foreclosure buying these days. In many places, anyone who wants to buy a foreclosure better act fast, or they’re going to come away with bupkus.

REOs, the industry term for homes repossessed by lenders and put back on the market, are often selling in a day — sometimes in less.

“We’re seeing REOs go very quickly. Offers come in immediately after the listing comes on the market, within 24 hours,” said Brad Geisen, founder of Foreclosure.com. Some homes have been put into contract in less than 90 minutes.

Bubble markets

The hot spots for this fast-paced foreclosure activity are former bubble markets where foreclosures soared — places like California cities Sacramento, Riverside and San Bernardino.

In Sacramento, for example, the inventory is down to less than 30 days, making it a cut-throat market. The agents specializing in REOs “have nothing to sell,” said Brandemuehl.

On average, inventories of California homes under $300,000, the most popular price point for foreclosure buyers, have shrunk drastically, from a nearly 10-month supply a year ago to less than three and a half-month supply today, according to the California Association of Realtors.

Nationally, the number of bank-owned properties diminished by 26% from June 2008 to June 2009.

The industry attributes the drop in inventories to foreclosure prevention efforts by President Obama and various state governments. In particular, they cite moratorium programs that, at the very least, postponed foreclosures.

The bad news is that as the moratoriums lapse, more REOs will likely hit the market. That’s because these efforts tend to delay foreclosure rather than stop it.

“Every lender I talk to has been telling me there’s every indication that a tsunami of new properties coming to the market later this fall,” Sakmar said.

Geisen sees the same flood, but he attributes it to consumers failing out of Obama’s foreclosure-prevention program, Making Home Affordable. He believes that many of the modified loans will fall back into foreclosure — especially if the economy doesn’t perk up soon.

In fact, last year the U.S. Comptroller of the Currency found that 53% of loans that were modified in the first half of 2008 fell back into arrears. Although, that was before Making Home Affordable standardized the terms and qualification process.

Still, Geisen said, “There’ll be another wave of foreclosures. The wave that Obama stopped — temporarily.”

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-05 14:35:47
Comment by rms
2009-08-05 22:19:48

+1 That URL was posted on Road Bike Review.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-05 23:47:33

Wow. Clavicles o’ steel.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-05 23:56:40

At 5 min 10 sec where he makes a big drop over a rail. I love how the people run to edge to look over and he’s pedaling off like nothing happened. Guy is talented.

 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-06 00:53:36

WOW!!! I’ve only heard of sitting on the fence, not biking on one!

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-06 03:30:09

That was awesome!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-06 04:04:00

Awesome, but even more off topic than fishing!

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-06 05:19:40

That was something else! I really enjoyed it SanFRanGal!! What a rider, and what balance, obviously extremely gifted athlete.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 14:42:46

Financial Times
Bonus breakdown
Published: July 30 2009 18:47 | Last updated: July 31 2009 23:04

JPMorgan Chase and Goldman Sachs paid the most million-dollar bonuses in 2008, while two banks that lost almost $28bn each last year, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch, also made hundreds of their employees millionaires, according to a newly released report on bonus payments by government-supported banks.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 15:06:57

Aug 5, 2009, 2:28 p.m. EST
Geithner’s outburst on regulatory reform
Commentary: What the (expletive deleted) is going on?

A supervisor in the private sector who used obscenities, as Geithner reportedly did, would be running the risk of a harassment suit. But perhaps it’s the Rahmbo influence beginning to pervade the administration; White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel is famously fond of using expletives.

When Richard Nixon used obscenities on his infamous White House tapes, it was widely seen as yet another sign of his moral turpitude. But those were more innocent times, no doubt.

Geithner has as yet been unable to stand up to bank chief executives and make them pay for their mistakes, but perhaps he feels that with the regulators he has a captive audience of underlings to whom he can safely vent.

The problem is that none of these regulators are under the authority of the Treasury secretary. They are the heads of independent government agencies, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate, and only can be removed for serious malfeasance. They expressly do not report to the Treasury or any other government department.

And, in fact, Geithner’s reported outburst on Friday did not stop Bair, or Comptroller of the Currency John Dugan, or acting director of the Office of Thrift Supervision John Bowman from repeating their contentious opinions at a Senate hearing on Tuesday.

Bair, a holdover from the Bush administration, insisted on her preference for a council of regulators to monitor systemic risk, as opposed to the administration’s plan to have the Fed play this role.

This is not, strictly speaking, defending her (expletive deleted) turf, as Geithner is said to have charged. It would give the FDIC a bigger role than it might otherwise have, so it’s really more like a power grab.

The problem for Geithner is that Bair and the others have found sympathetic ears in Congress for any opposition to giving the Fed more power. Lawmakers feel that the Fed fell down in its existing regulatory role and should not be rewarded with even more authority.

It’s a legitimate point of view, as is Bair’s contention that the pooled wisdom of the various regulators, each with their own special perspective on things, might have a better chance of spotting the next disastrous trend in our financial system.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 15:11:07

Source: MarketWatch

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 15:12:30

“The problem for Geithner is that Bair and the others have found sympathetic ears in Congress for any opposition to giving the Fed more power.”

Checks and balances must be a real thorn in the side for unelected Fed officials who are accustomed to operating above the reach of the Constitution.

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-08-06 09:47:13

Yep! Poor Timmy! How dare those laws and stuff get in the way of handing over the nation to Goldman Sachs!

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 15:16:21

…each with their own special perspective on things, might have a better chance of spotting the next disastrous trend in our financial system.

Are any of them voicing the opinion that housing prices should be allowed to fall?

Or that encouraging people to go into debt is not a way to “fix” the economy?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-05 15:34:12

I challenge Rahm Emmanuel to a cuss-off. And, let me warn ya, Rahm, I’m from a long line of expert cussers.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-05 23:05:36

I’d pay to see that, Slim.

Keep me in the loop.

 
 
 
Comment by sfrenter
2009-08-05 15:23:32

Now all we need is a smallish earthquake to get things really rolling:

San Francisco boasts balmy weather, seaside diversions and the best baseball stadium in the country.

But despite the perks, the Bay Area is losing people at an even greater clip than Miami–and ranks second on our list. Rental vacancy rates swelled from 4.7% to 7.1%; homeowner vacancies more than tripled from 1.1% to 3.4%. Why the dramatic change?

“One of the things we’re noticing is that rents are still high,” says Ken Shuman, a Bay Area-based spokesman for real estate data provider Trulia.com. “What we’re also seeing is the economy. San Francisco, of all cities, is the most transient. People flock here when times are good–they don’t mind paying high rent as long as pay is high. Now, in many cases, wages are frozen or reduced.”

And that’s if you’re lucky enough to still have a job. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ latest reports, Bay Area unemployment has more than doubled since last year, up from 4.6% to 9.4% as of April. Many laid-off workers aren’t sticking around.

“People are migrating. It happened after the dot-com bust too,” says Shuman. “As much as it’s a beautiful place to live, you really have to think about lifestyle. There’s no point in being here if you can’t enjoy it.”

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-05 15:38:07

FT Editor: News Sites Will Charge Access Within One Year.

A lot of companies are predicting that online content will not be free anymore. The Financial Times Editor is the latest person to discussion a subscription-based model.
In a speech in London, Financial Times Editor Lionel Barber said that within the next 12 months, news agencies will be charging access to their websites. The only thing that will be discussed, according to the editor, is whether they should charge per month or per article or possibly even both.
“I confidently predict that within the next 12 months, almost all news organisations will be charging for content.”
This speech comes the same week after Digital Journal reported that the CEO of ask.com said that the “era of online content is coming to an end.” The New York Times is also planning a subscription-based model that would charge users $5 per month to gain access to its online content.
Currently, the discussion between the two models, pay-per-article and per-month subscription, is to decide which is more cost effective and revenue based. Pay-per-article would mean that you would pay for every article you read, very similar to the $0.99 songs on iTunes.
The other model is to charge users per week or per month. For example, $1.99 per week, or the New York Times’ plan on charging $5 per month.

Comment by lavi d
2009-08-05 15:52:56

“I confidently predict that within the next 12 months, almost all news organisations will be charging for content.”

ha ha. HA HA HA HA HA! choke HA!

Techditr

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-05 22:06:51

it’s not funny! They are just stupid enough and desperate enough to try it..

Murdoc just claimed all his publications will do it soon, so the Marketwatch ticker would be inaccessable.. pity. And my free fake-portfolio at Virtual Stock Exchange (another marketwatch function) would be dead..

ah well.. charging for content will speed up their demise and it’s all for the best. The sooner the old-school, old-tech 20th century information-muddy-road stragglers are gone, the better.

 
 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-05 15:51:23

Boy are you HBBr’s every right about elected officials just trying to reinflate the bubble. To heck with the taxpayers…full speed ahead!

Condo buyers find it tough to get mortgages

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2009/08/05/BUCT190GMM.DTL

“The quagmire prompted Reps. Barney Frank, D-Mass., and Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., to call on Fannie and Freddie to back away from their stricter requirements.

But the entities say they’re just being responsible and protecting taxpayers’ money”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-06 03:36:39

“The quagmire prompted Reps. Barney Frank, D-Mass., and Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y., to call on Fannie and Freddie to back away from their stricter requirements.”

The mania lives on, kept alive by top government officials!!!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:20:04

Dumb questions of the day:

1. What gives the Fedury (Fed + Treasury = President’s Working Group = Plunge Protection Team) the legal right to make Megabank, Inc more than whole while throwing Main Street under the bus?

2. Why are Wall Street and Detroit too-big-to-fail, but not California (which, if it were a country, would be one of the world’s largest economies)?

3. If the bubble problem was largely do to super-high housing prices supported by super-low Fed-engineered interest rates, why has the Fed reinstated super-low interest rates as a policy objective?

4. Why does Timothy Geithner’s nose so closely resemble Pinocchio’s? (I sure wish a caricature artist would pick up on that fortuitous anatomical anomaly!)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:56:03

do due

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:43:54

Was it really legal for Bank of America to screw over their shareholders, then turn around and pay massive TARP-funded bonuses to their managers? Does the fact that the Fed was involved some how make it legit? This sure does stink to high heaven, if you ask me.

Wall Street Journal

* BUSINESS
* AUGUST 6, 2009

Behind BofA’s Silence on Merrill

Emails Show Higher Loss Views, but Bank Officers Saw Them as Not Material

BY DAN FITZPATRICK

Bank of America Corp.’s loss projections for Merrill Lynch & Co. swelled by nearly $2 billion two days before shareholders approved the securities firm’s takeover, but bank executives concluded that the losses weren’t severe enough to disclose publicly before the vote, according to company emails and people familiar with the situation.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-06 05:53:18

Don’t forget: the entire System was at risk. If not for that deal going through we would all be hiding in caves right now trying to light a fire with two sticks. Bernanke, Paulson, and especially Ken Lewis are heros! They alone saved all of us. Praise Goldman! May Goldman be with you.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:51:05

Breaking up AIG sounds like a good start towards eliminating systemic risk. Next we need to break up Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, J P Morgan, Bank of America, and the Fed. Who did I miss?

Wall Street Journal

* BUSINESS
* AUGUST 6, 2009

AIG Breakup Is Fee Bonanza

BY LIAM PLEVEN AND AARON LUCCHETTI

Wall Street banks and lawyers could collect nearly $1 billion in fees from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and American International Group Inc. to help manage and break apart the insurer, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis.

That would represent one of Wall Street’s biggest paydays — four times the fees paid to break up AT&T Corp. in 1996, and nearly double those paid for Visa USA’s 2008 initial public offering, the largest U.S. IPO ever.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-06 03:35:07

Oh yeah — Wells Fargo!

AP IMPACT: Gov’t mortgage partners sued for abuses
By DANIEL WAGNER (AP) – 9 hours ago

WASHINGTON — Billions of dollars the government is spending to help financially pressed homeowners avert foreclosure are passing through — and enriching — companies accused of preying on the people they’re supposed to help, an Associated Press investigation has found.

The companies, known as mortgage servicers, are middlemen who collect monthly payments from homeowners and funnel the money to the banks or investors who hold the loans. As the only link between borrowers and lenders, they’re in the best position to rework the terms of loans under the government’s $50 billion mortgage-modification program. The servicers are paid by the government if the changes keep homeowners from falling behind on payments for at least three months.

But the industry has a checkered history. The AP found that at least 30 servicers have been accused in lawsuits of harassing borrowers, imposing illegal fees and charging for unnecessary insurance policies. More recently, the companies also have been criticized for not helping homeowners quickly enough — delays that lead to more fees for homeowners and profits for servicers.

The biggest players in the servicing industry — Bank of America, Wells Fargo & Co., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Citigroup Inc. — all face litigation, some of which has led to settlements with homeowners. All will receive federal money to modify loans.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:54:58

HedgeCo dot net

Geithner’s Rant, Obama Administration’s Desperation?
Posted By Bret Rosenthal, August 4th, 2009

This story is quite disturbing. The Obama administration is sliding down a slippery, or should I say, slimy slope. In Q4 of last year fear mongering was the tactic of choice to push policy (e.g. auguring global financial ruin if senators didn’t quickly pass questionable legislation.) In Q1 & Q2 of this year financial market manipulation was the potion incorporated to conjure up support for far-reaching and possibly destructive government controls. Apparently Q3 ushers in a new age of coercion. When I read the story below I wonder: Is this a show of unbridled audacity (to use an Obama term) or is this the beginnings of something altogether more desperate? As ratings slip and agendas meet resistance is this how our “esteemed” president and his “brilliant” entourage conduct themselves?

Geithner vents as overhaul stumbles - WSJ

WSJ reports Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner blasted top U.S. financial regulators in an expletive-laced critique last Friday as frustration grows over the Obama administration’s faltering plan to overhaul U.S. financial regulation, according to people familiar with the meeting.

Among those gathered in the Treasury conference room were Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, SEC Chairman Mary Schapiro and FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair. Friday’s roughly hourlong meeting was described as unusual, not only because of Mr. Geithner’s repeated use of obscenities, but because of the aggressive posture he took with officials from federal agencies generally considered independent of the White House. Mr. Geithner reminded attendees that the administration and Congress set policy, not the regulatory agencies. Mr. Geithner, without singling out officials, raised concerns about regulators who questioned the wisdom of giving the Federal Reserve more power to oversee the financial system.

I would curse too if I were a couple of hundred grand underwater on my mortgage.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 22:02:08

Profanity shows a lack of vocabulary. Tut tut tut. I included the Washington Post’s own comment policy to show what a bunch of hypocrites they are.

In Britain, A High Tolerance For Salty
By Karla Adam
Special to The Washington Post
Thursday, August 6, 2009

Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain “signatures” by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the content that you post.

LONDON — It was perhaps ironic that when David Cameron, the leader of Britain’s opposition party, swore on live radio last week, he did so seconds after saying he doesn’t use Twitter for fear of spluttering something stupid.

He then played on the word twit, inventing a past tense of the term that some people here regard as a swear word. An apology swiftly followed.

It may just boost his ratings. The swearing, that is, not the apology.

Like pints, tea and gardening, expletives are woven into the social fabric of British life, and while not everyone runs around letting it rip like celebrity chef Gordon Ramsay, they hardly go faint at the sound of profanity. Americans remained shocked for years after hearing President Richard Nixon using vulgarities on White House tapes and Vice President Richard Cheney stunned the nation by telling a senator, in public, what he could do to himself. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, according to the Wall Street Journal, was the focus of muttered tut-tuts for his own blue-chip blue streak directed at regulators just last week.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 22:10:46

The real significance of Geithner’s outburst is that it has shattered the image of the Obamanomics Brain Trust. Geithner’s leadership style is now revealed to be that of a pug-nosed bully who swears like a sailor. That hardly meshes with Obama’s aura of gentlemanly restraint.

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-06 05:52:57

I’d be delighted to respond to Geithner in kind. Hey, Timmay, eat-a-bag-a!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-05 21:58:02

Here is the City News

Only In America!
last updated: 5 August 2009

Welcome to America - the land of the free market system, where entrepreneurs are encouraged and success is rewarded. Wrong.

Such is the state of things over in Obama-land, that Lloyd Blankfein, the CEO of Goldman Sachs, has allegedly had to warn his troops not to go out and make ostentatious purchases which may draw unwanted attention to the success of individuals and the firm. The New York Post quotes one unnamed Goldman staffer, who said: ‘This is a sensitive time for us, and (Blankfein) wants to make sure that we’re not being seen living high on the hog’. So Goldman’s finest keep their cash in their pockets, and the economy has to look to Obama’s stimulus plan for a kick-start (the same stimulus package that is unlikely to stimulate much until 2010). Only in America.

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-06 05:50:56

Reminds me of the scene from Goodfellas, where DeNiro went nuts after the Lufthansa heist at Idlewild (Kennedy) Airport. He had told his thugs not to go out and spend the money so as not to call attention to themselves, and then went ballistic at the Christmas party when the thugs showed up with new Cadillacs, mink coats for their wives, etc. Is there any difference?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-06 03:59:09

My lovely wife picked up the most amazing book for me to read today at the local library. It is entitled “The Foreclosure of America — The Inside Story of the Rise and Fall of Countrywide Home Loans, the Mortgage Crisis, and the Default of the American Dream,” by Adam Michaelson. While the author has a muddled understanding of free market economics (for instance, he does not seem to understand that a free market economy is supposed to be governed by a rule of law in order to function properly) and he carefully avoids mentioning any names (e.g., Christopher Dodd) in his discussion of the Friends of Angelo program, his epiphany while working at Countrywide must have been quite remarkable. At the end of the book, he offers a set of policy recommendations which would go far to protecting future generations of Americans from a repetition of the bubble.

I can’t say I agree 100% with all his suggestions, but they collectively represent a big step in the direction of restoring sanity to the mortgage market. Too bad I see little evidence the members of the Obamanomics Brain Trust are very much interested in making sure the bubble will not soon recur. I have heard next to nothing from them on the topic aside from the Geithner / Bernanke campaign to put the Fed fox in charge of regulating the financial hen house, and populist promises to rescue millions of households who are facing foreclosure, whether or not such a rescue is whatsoever fair to many millions of other Americans who did not buy homes they could not afford.

P.S. I also very much like the quote at the start of Chapter 12:

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of this country … corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in ta few hands and the Republic is destroyed.

– Abraham Lincoln, November 1864 –

(letter to Colonel William F. Elkins, after passage of the National Bank Act)

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-06 05:55:43

I wouldn’t exactly call this a “green shoot”:

“TAYLOR, BEAN & WHITAKER MORTGAGE CORP. (“TBW”) RECEIVED NOTIFICATION ON AUGUST 4, 2009 FROM THE U.S DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, FREDDIE MAC AND GINNIE MAE (THE “AGENCIES”) THAT IT WAS BEING TERMINATED AND/OR SUSPENDED AS AN APPROVED SELLER AND/OR SERVICER FOR EACH OF THOSE RESPECTIVE FEDERAL AGENCIES. TBW HAS UNSUCCESSFULLY SOUGHT TO HAVE THE TERMINATION/SUSPENSION DECISIONS OF EACH OF THOSE AGENCIES REVERSED. AS A RESULT OF THESE ACTIONS, TBW MUST CEASE ALL ORIGINATION OPERATIONS EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. REGRETTABLY, TBW WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CLOSE OR FUND ANY MORTGAGE LOANS CURRENTLY PENDING IN ITS PIPELINE. TBW IS COOPERATING WITH EACH OF THE AGENCIES WITH RESPECT TO ITS SERVICING OPERATIONS AND EXPECTS TO CONTINUE TO SERVICE MORTGAGE LOANS AS IT RESTRUCTURES ITS BUSINESS IN THE WAKE OF THESE EVENTS. WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS COULD HAVE A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON OUR VALUED EMPLOYEES, CUSTOMERS AND COUNTERPARTIES, AND ARE VERY DISAPPOINTED THAT A LESS DRASTIC OPTION IS UNAVAILABLE.”

About 5,000 people were reportedly laid off at the close of business yesterday and the company has essentially shut down.

5000 laid off, but just think of all the new jobs at ACORN.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-06 06:35:17

The Bad News Bulls:

More BAD News (Unemployment Claims)
I love how the media (CNBC in particular) “spins” the weekly unemployment report.

Let’s dissect it - again.

Continuing claims is the key number. It rose 69,000 from the week previous on a seasonally-adjusted basis.

But look down the table in that report. 139,291 people rolled off the continuing claims numbers into “extended benefits.”

Those folks are still unemployed, yet they understate the continuing claims number by a whopping 140,000.

This is the distortion that creeps into the numbers, and over time it gets quite ugly. What’s worse is that we’re now starting to see people drop off the extended programs, and this will accelerate into August and beyond (although Congress is threatening to extend those benefit times once again.)

The market spiked on the release but again, the issue for the economy is consumption going forward. Government money dumps ultimately must be funded and while this has so far “worked”, it cannot continue forever.

Only the actual number of people who do not have a job matters, not those who are claimed in some headline release.

In order to support an economic recovery people need purchasing power - that is, jobs!

Beware buying the hype; euphoria feels real good while you’re on the right side of it, but the hangover can truly suck when the drugs wear off.

(From K. Denninger)

 
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