August 15, 2009

Bits Bucket For August 15, 2009

Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.




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311 Comments »

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 03:56:09

Don’t tell me I’ve beaten our west coast crack of dawn health nuts! A. sloth wins again! Now for a morning paw full of green shoots.

Comment by Rancher
2009-08-15 06:14:52

Don’t get cocky…for some it’s time to lurk.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-15 07:30:38

Do you take your coffee with green shoots, Rancher?

Comment by Rancher
2009-08-15 09:56:47

Brown, dried up weeds is more appropriate.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-08-15 06:43:23

The greenest shoot in my extended family is cousin Sherry’s decision to reduce her asking price from $399K to $379K after nine months on the market w/ no offers and only two showings. The “season” is almost over in Maine, so this season will pass with no sale for her (even though 70 SFH’s in her county were sold in June). The “price reduced” sign may give her half a chance at seeing some further traffic…that’s the green shoot.

She just doesn’t Get It. Next time she asks for a handout I’m likely to advise her to stop paying her mortgage, since she can probably live free for a year and a half. (Yes, I disapprove of the FB squatters, but I’m done with supporting her debt addiction directly.)

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-15 07:31:42

Has she tried balloons?

Comment by ACH
2009-08-15 08:50:33

I’m confused. When you say balloons are you referring to the “exotic balloon dance”?

Roidy

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Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-15 14:42:02

No. I mean attach balloons to the for sale sign.

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-08-15 15:28:41

I attached 3 well filled hot air balloons to my TX mailbox a month ago for our big party. I happened to be in the driveway a couple of hours later when the only person who likely needed them drove up. Good thing, because they were rather flat. Who knew Texas heat could kill hot air balloons?

Hopefully the REaltors choose better materials or the balloons may send the wrong message.

 
Comment by ACH
2009-08-15 16:21:47

Hmm, get a really pretty girl to do the exotic balloon dance. That’ll bring them in. LOL
Roidy

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 18:58:23

Speaking of pretty girl (s)… today after Ben made me turn off the pc(server problems) I was driving through Cathedral City and at the corner, this ‘tent’ with BUY INSURANCE SAFELY was in bright yellow and a girl with a giant arrow and high heels was standing there promoting the business. I couldn’t see any clothes behind the big arrow sign. She probably had some, but gosh, I guess that is how you have to promote your biz nowadays.

Irony was while waiting for signal to turn, a car from the”goodhandspeople” stopped right in front (waiting to turn).

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 04:27:09

Regulators take over 2 failed Arizona banks, assets sold to Oklahoma City’s MidFirst Bank
August 15, 2009, 12:16 am EDT

PHOENIX (AP) — Two Arizona banks were declared failed institutions on Friday and were taken over by federal or state regulators.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation took over control of Gilbert-based Union Bank, National Association. The FDIC agreed to sell its assets to MidFirst Bank of Oklahoma City. The bank’s only branch will reopen on Monday as a MidFirst branch.

Also closed on Friday by state regulators were all four branches of the Community Bank of Arizona. That bank’s assets were also sold to MidFirst Bank.

Nevada regulators also closed Community Bank’s holding company and sister bank, Community Bank of Nevada. That bank will be liquidated.

Account holders at all three banks can continue writing checks, making deposits and using their ATM accounts.

All customers deposits in the Arizona banks — even those above the federal insurance limits of $250,000 — are secured, said Felecia Rotellini, Superintendent of the Arizona Department of Financial Institutions.

Those with deposits in Las Vegas-based Community Bank of Nevada may not be so lucky. That bank will reopened as a new holding company called the Deposit Insurance National Bank of Las Vegas. It will remain open only for about 30 days, long enough to allow customers to move their deposits to other institutions.

The FDIC said in a press release that those with deposits above $250,000 in the Nevada bank will have to inquire about their deposits. Approximately $4.2 million in insured deposits potentially exceeded the insurance limits when the bank was shuttered on Friday.

Comment by Yensoy
2009-08-15 05:06:23

I predict 250 bank failures in the next 24 months…

Only because Sheila’s folks can process around 5 per weekend, on an average.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 05:18:51

I chismbop that out to ~500.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 05:22:14

The dead bank market, like the foreclosure market, sure seems to have a lot of shadow inventory nowadays. They just can’t process them fast enough. The FDIC seems to be receiving a lot of praise lately. I just wish somebody would tell me why. Clearly they can’t handle their own duties.

Comment by Muggy
2009-08-15 06:14:25

“They just can’t process them fast enough.”

Mo’ money, mo’ problems.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-08-15 06:16:33

This is just like Texas in the 80’s. A long slow list of defaulted lenders every week, to the point where it just becomes routine.

But the loans don’t go away, just passed on to a new handler. For instance, when Taylor Bean went under recently, all their work orders got cancelled. But the problems are still there and can’t be ignored. Sure enough, now TB work orders are showing up again. I’m not sure what game the Feds are playing here. This is a very similar situation to the RTC, but they are acting like it’s not. Whatever is going on behind closed doors, these corps are being liquidated.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 06:20:59

“I’m not sure what game the Feds are playing here.”

I don’t think they know either. Every day is a “Night at the Improv” to them. Chicken wire and string are holding everything together.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-08-15 07:47:57

I think the game has been most accurately characterized as “extend and pretend”.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-08-15 13:48:32

Sounds like the tag line in an ad for a male enhancement product! :-)

 
 
 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-15 07:30:31

That’s what happens when typing on a tiny keyboard trying to focus on the keys instead of the content… yeah, I made a mistake, should be in the next 12 months :-)

 
 
Comment by Little Al
2009-08-15 06:17:25

-With the bank failures, will there ever be a 30’s style panic about the FDIC not being able to make good on its obligations?
-Predictions on Bloomberg about the S&P hitting 400 within a year. That’s a mighty low number but exceeding the March lows IMHO is cooked in the books.
-Mark to Market is becoming the law now and the SEC found teeth. Ramifications?
Predictions for 9th inning in real estate lows. Is February 2012 too late? How come we haven’t started a pool yet?

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-15 06:30:08

The 2012 date is one that HBBer’s started mentioning back in early 2007 when Ivy Zellman’s ARM-reset chart was the wall decoration of choice. However, John Mauldin this week, while mentioning 2012, also mentions 2014…can’t right now recall the distinction.

S&P 400 — eerily like az_lender’s persistent call for stock bottom to match 1974 bottom in an inflation-adjusted sense. The Dec 1974 stock bottom was just below DJIA 600 which, if you adjust it for the 35 yrs inflation, becomes something under DJIA 4000 (similar to S&P 400). I can only hope. Stock prices right now seem absurdly high relative to present and near-term earnings.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 06:35:43

If the S&P goes to 400 real estate will get crushed again. It is being held up now by psychology. A drop like that would destroy the “happy place” mindset we are currently seeing.

I’m not saying whether 400 happens or not. Predictions are easy to make but tough to continue to stand by. If it does go to 400 there is a whole new world of hurt we are facing. It won’t be something pretty. If it can make The Masters even more wealthy they will do it.

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Comment by Rancher
2009-08-15 07:03:37

The market is being held up by cotton candy.
It looks substantial, it’s sweet, and nice to see but it’s easily crushed.

GS does more trading than all the other 18 major banks combined and the volume is way
down. The smart money is sitting on the sidelines.

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Comment by Captain john
2009-08-15 08:09:03

Should the “Smart (HBB) Money” be figuring out how to take advantage of this fall? By shorting something? Can our knowledgeable folks here advise a simple way to take advantage of a fall in stocks? Im thinking Prudent Bear funds…

Over to you, the “Smartest Guys (and gals) in the blogosphere!

 
Comment by ACH
2009-08-15 08:53:17

Wait to see if the SEC bans GS little trick of front running called flash trades. That will kill this little rally. This is all GS and some other sneaks on WS.

Roidy

 
Comment by Xenos
2009-08-15 08:56:07

I am hardly one of the smartest guys around. But the only times I have done well is by getting out of the stock market when I can’t make sense of it anymore. Now is one of those times. The green shoots are laughably weak, and we are waiting for a whole new cycle of retail failures, and the everlooming CRE meltdown should really kick in before the end of the year. I even sold the few ounces of gold that I owned.

I just want to forget about the markets for the rest of the year and then I will look around and see if things are ugly enough to justify buying anything.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-08-15 09:13:57

Can our knowledgeable folks here advise a simple way to take advantage of a fall in stocks?

Sure, buy long-dated puts. All you need is volatility to make a profit..your puts don’t even have to be in the money to make a buck. Plus your downside is limited to the price you paid for the options.

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-08-15 09:59:52

Puts are the way to go.

 
Comment by Captain john
2009-08-15 10:22:31

Link to description and mechanics of doing this please?

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-08-15 13:53:35

Link to description and mechanics of doing this please?

I don’t have any articles handy, but there’s this sweet new internet application called a ’search engine’. Give it a shot ;)

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-15 14:09:39

“Should the “Smart (HBB) Money” be figuring out how to take advantage of this fall? By shorting something? Can our knowledgeable folks here advise a simple way to take advantage of a fall in stocks? Im thinking Prudent Bear funds…”

1. LEAPs

2. trade inverse ETFs

3. follow Xenos’ advice & stay on the sidelines in cash

 
Comment by ACH
2009-08-15 16:23:50

Ok, what’s a “put”?

Roidy

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-08-15 20:48:17

Ok, what’s a “put”?

a bet that the value of the underlying security will go down, essentially. It’s a type of stock option. a “call” is the opposite - a bet that the value of the underlying security will rise.

 
Comment by ACH
2009-08-15 21:13:08

I thought that was a short?
Roidy

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:01:56

You can “short” a stock by borrowing (from your broker) a stock, selling the stock itself, then buying it back at a lower price to pay back your broker.

You can also technically short a stock via a put option. This put option gives you the right to sell a stock at a given price. Options have an expiration date, at which point the option becomes worthless (you lose 100%) if the bet doesn’t pan out. Option prices are affected by:

-the price of the stock
-stock market volatility
-time (the value decays over time)

I would not recommend shorting a stock — either directly or via options — until you do a lot of research and **fully** understand the risks you are taking.

If you are going to use options, be sure to give yourself enough time (long-dated options or LEAPS) because your prediction might be right, but timing off.

If you are going to short the market/stock, ONLY use money you can stand to lose, and be honest with yourself about it. Also, make small bets at first. You really need to get a feel for it for a while before you make larger bets.

FWIW, I’ve never bet more than 5-10% of our total portfolio on options/shorts at any one time.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:04:58

One more thing…

Shorting stocks can put you in a situation where you owe more than you ever intended to bet. IOW, if the stock continues to rise over time, you will have to buy it back at that higher price in order to pay back the broker. They can force you to close your position, too.

Be very aware of all the risks, as your losses are technically infinite.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-16 05:14:11

Currently I have a put on the Diamonds Index (a proxy for DJIA). I paid $900 for a piece of paper that will pay me only if DJIA is below 8000 at the end of September. However, as others indicated above, the real bet (for me) is that DJIA will sink far enough INTO the 8000’s in Aug or Sept to make someone else willing to pay me more money for the piece of paper. My timing was in fact very poor in this case, I bought the piece of paper when DJIA was still below 9000. However, echoing the crowd above, I note that I cannot lose more than $900 on this, which is a small amt relative to realized 2009 gains.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 07:39:34

“…will there ever be a 30’s style panic about the FDIC not being able to make good on its obligations?”

As long as the Fed’s printing press is in good working order, what is the concern about being any Federal government agency being able to make good on its (nominally fixed) obligations?

 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-15 04:29:49

INMATES COLLECTED $30K IN UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS

ALBANY — Eleven inmates cheated the state by collecting $30,000 in unemployment benefits while already on the dole in jail, an audit released this morning by state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli has found.

The auditors compared payments made by the Department of Labor for unemployment benefits during June 2008 with prison records maintained by the state Department of Correctional Services.

Aside from the 11 who inappropriately received benefits, the review discovered another 14 prisoners who potentially profited from gaps in the system.

One man who auditors discovered incarcerated under another person’s name is now being prosecuted by the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office. Payments to another four inmates were stopped when they failed to respond to inquires about the issue.

Unemployed New Yorkers must be ready, willing and able to work their usual job in order to receive taxpayer-funded unemployment benefits.

“These prisoners figured out a way to game the system from inside a cell,” DiNapoli said in statement. “Taxpayers shouldn’t be footing the bill for this kind of outrageous scam.”

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 04:47:00

“one man who auditors discovered incarcerated under another person’s name…”

What? Who the heck goes to jail under an assumed ID? Maybe his real crimes were so bad that his alias’ crimes seemed mild? Or did he just need a little time away from the old lady?

Or maybe the big boyz can send in a placeholder? “Serve my tree years for me Vinny, and you’ll have a nice life waitin’ for ya outside.”

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 05:18:45

“Serve my tree years for me Vinny, and you’ll have a nice life waitin’ for ya outside.”

Heck, I used to love treehouses… I’m in. :)

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 05:22:06

it’s all tree years to a sloth

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 05:33:27

I stand corrected.

 
 
 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-15 05:50:56

In some juristictions they have 3-time loser sentencing. If you’ve committed 3 violent felonies you get a much longer sentence. Maybe that’s why?

 
 
Comment by mgnyc99
2009-08-15 05:53:32

i am so glad our inmates are living well

all the while i walk away with 63% of my pay every week

nys really blows and i would leave if a good oppurtunity came along

btw

thw wife and i spent 5 days in the bahamas
great weather- 5 star accomadations and food

no sign of a recession down there, my best guess is a family of
4 can run through 7-10k in a week easy

restaurants packed, casinos packed

vacations are so much nicer when they are paid in full
after you pay the cabbie for the ride from the airport

i highly recommend the Cove at atlantis for our non-children having hbb folks

great place

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 06:19:42

I hope you made sure to tell your wife’s friend, and her lawyer husband, every detail. Make stuff up if you have to. Just be sure to really rub it in.

Comment by exeter
2009-08-15 08:05:31

FYI. NYS has have been conducting internal audits since the beginning of the year. And they are *scouring* everything and everyone. Wife is a state employee and the state is requiring everyone to re-qualify for their health insurance. This includes providing proof of marriage, birth, divorce, etc etc etc. State facilities are getting audited everywhere.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 09:35:33

Exeter tell your wife i found MILLIONS on wasted boondoggles

Its called workfare…i’ve never seen such waste making people work for benefits is a make work project for gov and non profit workers….does nothing to train or help people find jobs

its incredible no investigative reporter has blown this story sky high. but I’m working on it .

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:09:40

Interesting you mention that, exeter.

My husband is a municipal employee, and we also have to provide a marriage certificate and birth certificates for all family members in order to re-qualify for health benefits. First time we’ve ever had to do this.

 
 
 
Comment by Captain john
2009-08-15 08:15:26

You probably walked past the boat I am running, as we were in the Marina.

Atlantis is packed, you are right, but only because they have slashed hotel room prices to about a third of what they were a few years ago…

…They figure that they can make it up in the restaurants and Casino, they may be right. However Atlantis has layed off 1000 people in the last year.

It is also busy as they are hosting “Miss Universe” at the moment, I heard they pay to host it and put contestants and families up for free.

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 04:30:58

Different in Canada, eh? RE sales set records, up six straight months and YOY! Say what? Has Canada decamped?

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtUSInvestingNews/idUSN1431340220090814

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 05:15:27

“Resale activity in Vancouver, British Columbia, surged 90 percent in July from a year ago”

Yep, Looks like they are ’snapping’ up houses at a rapid clip.

Comment by llking
2009-08-15 09:48:19

Ah, those fools. They are snapping it up in thinking the Winter Olympic would give them a nice 20-30% gain, and then sell. But all sheeples think the same. Good luck.

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-08-15 05:27:33

‘Average price skewed by rebound in priciest markets’

Whatever happened to the median? I have a handful of reports from Regina, etc, showing the market falling apart in Canada. And the report could have read, “record number of fresh FBs sign up in Canada.”

It’s really this simple; was there a housing bubble in Canada? If so, these people will find themselves underwater and walk. Notice there isn’t much foreclosure news from up there. But the same psychological forces exist north of the border as in the US, so I would expect that to change.

Comment by rosie
2009-08-15 07:05:52

We are a little slow up here. It always seems to take a year or so longer for reality to catch up in Canada. I get a kick out of watching Toronto prices in the Toronto Star. They have a feature called “what they asked, what they got.” More often than not they still get the asking price, or better. Economic fundamentals are skewed because of the present commodity bubble. Just like last summer. Hard to say how long this will last.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 04:31:04

This should come as no surprise, but I’m sure some experts will be caught off guard by this, ‘unexpected’ occurrence.

Retailers See Slowing Sales in Back-to-School Season.
NYT 8-15-09

Halfway through the back-to-school shopping season, retail professionals are predicting the worst performance for stores in more than a decade, yet another sign that consumers are clinging to every dollar.

Fears about the job market have resulted in sluggish customer traffic over the last few weeks, spurring the gloomy sales projections. Parents who do shop are aggressively trading down, informing status-conscious teenagers that notebooks from the dollar store or shirts from Costco will have to do this year.

Stock analysts at Citigroup are predicting a decline in back-to-school sales for the first time since they began tracking the figures in 1995. They estimate August and September sales at stores open for at least a year — known as same-store sales — will fall 3 to 4 percent, compared with an increase of nearly 1 percent in the same period last year.

The National Retail Federation, an industry group, expects the average family with school-age children to spend nearly 8 percent less this year than last. And ShopperTrak, a research company, predicted customer traffic would be down 10 percent from a year ago.

“This is going to be the worst back-to-school season in many, many years,” said Craig F. Johnson, president of Customer Growth Partners, a retailing consultant firm.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-15 05:53:15

I can recall being dragged to the store for new school clothes and other items. Since young Slim wasn’t exactly a fashionista, I didn’t see what all the fuss was about clothes. Heck, I already had clothes, and they looked just fine to me.

Needless to say, my indifference to fashion didn’t exactly win plaudits at school.

Despite my mother’s best efforts, I needed to look no further than my father for a fine example of fashion indifference. Dad was famous (or infamous) for wearing mismatched socks to the lab.

When one of his fellow researchers would point his sock choice out to him, he’d say, “I have another pair just like it at home.”

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 06:07:06

“I have another pair just like it at home.”

LOL! Great come back.

 
Comment by FP
2009-08-15 06:15:07

We go to a nearby uniform retail store. White shirts, navy blue pants or shorts. I wonder why they chose white. By the end of the day, that shirt looks like a rag going through a car wash all day.

Anyways, kid grew 4 inches over the summer so he needs clothes so we’ll take him along. although, he might have a say on what he wants to wear. He’s at that age.

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-08-15 13:45:05

Showing my age…remember when Sears had “Toughskins” jeans with a one year warranty? So every summer your mom would send you out for a week to abuse the heck out of the jeans, tear a hole in them, what have you. Then off to Sears you’d go, and you’d get jeans the next size up.

I think when I was in fifth grade they made it so the replacement for the torn pair had to be the same size.

But from kindergarden to third grade I think my parents paid for two pairs of jeans. The next four years they just traded ‘em in.

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Comment by Leighsong
2009-08-15 07:27:58

Morning HBBers!

Hubby and I went shopping yesterday for almost seven hours!

Macy sales - few nice outfits and shoes.

I don’t remember the name of the shoe store for hubby, but he scored four pairs, which, by the way, is nothing short of a miracle. Oh, that would be the four pair part.

Mexican restaurant for lunch.

Best buy for ink.

Specialty shop for beef snacks, deer jerky and the like.

Last, but not least, Walmart for those must have items. We usually go to Piggly Wiggly, but we were in another part of town.

Except for the specialty shop, we were tripping over store employees attempting to “help” us.

As we were driving about I convinced hubby to quiz employees on the traffic through their shops.

Macy folks were less than forcoming, but my own eyes witnessed a huge downturn. The clerk stopped short of begging me to go on-line and write a report on her customer service. (I did - why not).

In the men’s shoe store, hubby was king! (Maybe that’s why he purchased four pairs?) Three clerks were flinging size 11s left and right. Apparently, he was the only one purchasing at the time - two other guys were browsing and refused help. I sat in the chair next to him with the thumbs up and down thing. Chatted up the clerks and all told of cut hours, one said the boss was going to lay off staff at months end.

Restaurant was sparse - and this was at lunchtime.

Nothing much to report at specialty shop - if you patronize their fares, you know what they have and what you want. It’s a mom and pop business and they butcher beef, hog, deer and whatnot.

Best Buy was dull. Two clerks helped us find ink cartridges. We knew where they were, as we have been there before, but played along for funsies. Both clerks told us business was down significantly, and they were shocked. One said he expected more traffic for back to school crowd. Oh my.

Walmart was the real shocker. We went in for the bread, milk cat food thingy. Check out was a zing. Again, I chatted up the clerk and she told me (very outspokenly) that she was laid off from manufacturing a year ago - and Walmart employees were being sent home early and management warned at a staff meeting of layoffs. I really felt horrible for asking the question. Hubby and I were truly amazed at her anger and flat out exasperation.
(I’m a tad bit glad we don’t shop there regularly).

It’s getting bad out there guys. My little sis called me last night to report her plant is closing Aug 28. I reminded her that she always has a place with us. Seriously, we may be her only hope if she fails to secure employment in the dinky little town she lives in. They (sis and hubby) live hand-to-face. There is nothing to save on her salary and he’s - well, that’s another story all together.

Take care,

Leigh

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-08-15 08:37:30

You know what they say about shoes…

 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-08-15 09:10:14

Macy’s, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, grocery store, shoe store…that sounds like a nightmare seven hours to me. I hope that you are done until mid-September.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-08-15 14:03:01

Ah yes, shoes. I have a lifetime supply of leather shoes- one pair of brown loafers and one pair of black loafers that should last the rest of my life. Now I just buy tennis shoes. The newest shoes are actually for tennis. As they wear they become my walking/knockabout shoes. And as they get dirtier they become my gardening/yard work shoes.

Thank heaven for New Balance and their width choices.

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-15 16:43:34

In the same boat here. Dress shoes are old Cole Haans (made in USA) that can be resoled and should last a lifetime with proper care. Boots are Dr. Martens (made in England, not China) and should last a while, although maybe not a lifetime.

Last pair of New Balance I purchased were assembled in USA. Will try to purchase the next pair of NB also assembled in America.

Anyone else have good shoe recommendations?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-15 18:30:24

Anyone else have good shoe recommendations?

I sure as heck do! I got alllll sorts of opinions about shoes. First of all, pink rhinestones and a bottle of super-glue are needed tools. Go get them, my good man. I’ll wait.

…Just a minute, though, I have to go look at me feet in the mirror and hop up and down a bit. Back in a tick.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-15 18:55:29

Still tapping my feet and no Olygal. Been longer than a few minutes. :grin:

Hey gal would you email me your new email address.

Hope you’re feeling better

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-15 19:25:37

Wow! What a great idea. Where’s my glue gun. Going to fancy up my steel toe DM boots with some rhinestones.

Going to some open houses on Sunday for free snacks and to torment realtors. Maybe I’ll wear them.

 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 14:17:00

Some people are still finding out for the first time in their lives that no one’s job is safe for any amount of time no matter how good an employee you are.

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 04:45:25

Auto suppliers under bankruptcy protection
Aug 14, 7:20 PM (ET)By The Associated Press

Auto parts supplier Visteon Corp. has asked a Delaware bankruptcy judge for permission to cut health and life insurance benefits for thousands of current and former workers.

Judge Christopher Sontchi said Friday that he needs time to consider the evidence and arguments.

While the Van Buren Township, Mich.-based company acknowledged that cutting off the benefits would cause hardship for some people, it claims the benefits are one of its largest liabilities and keeping them in place would make it tough for the company to reorganize.

Here’s where the bankruptcy cases of other auto suppliers currently stand:

DELPHI CORP.: The Troy, Mich.-based supplier, which filed for Chapter 11 protection in October 2005, won permission in March to stop providing health care and insurance benefits to its salaried retirees. More recently, Delphi received court approval to emerge from bankruptcy protection by handing control of the company over to its lenders in exchange for debt forgiveness. The company is expected to emerge from court protection by Sept. 30.

LEAR CORP.: Lear Corp. filed for bankruptcy court protection in New York in July. Its next hearing is set Aug. 25.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 05:15:28

“…permission to cut health and life insurance benefits for thousands…”

Maybe when the majority of Americans have lost their job-related healthcare, they’ll realize the benefits of a universal single payer system. We’ll see…

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-15 05:54:23

Job-related healthcare. Don’t get me started on that one.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-15 06:23:00

Or, they’ll see the benefits of purchasing their own healthcare coverage, as I did for four years.

If everyone purchased their own instead of going through their employer, costs would come down.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 06:47:20

“If everyone purchased their own instead of going through their employer, costs would come down”.

That is true IMO. If I sign on through my wife’s company policy, the monthly nut is $689.00 On my own, it’s $218.00. Of course I remember when sickness ins. was not offered through ones employer. The system is a mess and is destined to get worse.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-15 08:52:10

If I sign on through my wife’s company policy, the monthly nut is $689.00 On my own, it’s $218.00.

For the same policy, deductible, coverage?

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-15 17:39:46

You must be young. I can’t get that kind of monthly premium on ANY policy. I’m almost 57 yrs old. Good luck with that when you’re old and gray.

I’m on mandatory overtime right now - my unit at my workplace is failing and they’re getting the “good” people to come in on mandatory OT in order to get caught up. I don’t want the OT. I have to work it ( 20 hours a week ) until the end of the month. I’d rather they fired the incompetents and hired a couple of people who want to work their asses off. Like me.

I’m slaving away at this workplace because I’ll have lifetime health ins. coverage with only a 30 percent cost share when I retire. It’s worth it. And, if they take it away, well, at least my employer forks over a 10% match to my 5% 403b contribution. I save far more than that per month, actually. Not ALL babyboomers are spendthrift fools.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-15 20:06:46

I’m 45. I paid $105 monthly in 2008.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:18:30

There is no way buying your own ins will be lower than what your corp gets you and you pay the rest.
Really?
I pay $369 and it goes up each yr. Friend bought his own bcbs and he is younger and it cost $500+.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:20:38

Where are you guys getting good health insurance for $100/month. I’ve not seen anything like that in over a decade.

 
 
 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-08-15 09:12:38

“Maybe when the majority of Americans have lost their job-related healthcare, they’ll realize the benefits of a universal single payer system.”

Name some of those benefits other than death panels, rationing, abuse, government bloat and a substantial decrease in free market incentives to develop new technologies, protocols and drugs.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-15 10:19:06

Death panels?

Oh you mean the death panels voted by these people:

Grassley, Reps. John Boehner, Thaddeus McCotter and John Mica — each of whom has warned about some kind of government euthanasia or “death counselors” — all voted for the idea six years ago.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/08/14/death_switch/index.html

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Comment by cashedin05
2009-08-15 16:30:59

Just because they have an “R” beside their name does not mean they will protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It also does not keep them from pandering and being hypocritical.

I’m against any politician racing to create this Orwellian bureaucracy. So don’t automatically assume I’m preaching Repulican talking points.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:19:53

cashedin, but that is who voted on these panels in ‘03 and are loudly anti now..

 
 
Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2009-08-15 21:05:39

We’ve already got all of these things, except they’re not government-run, they’re brought to you by the “free-marketeers” who run our lovely private health insurance businesses.
———————————-
Name some of those benefits other than death panels, rationing, abuse, government bloat and a substantial decrease in free market incentives to develop new technologies, protocols and drugs.

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Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:22:10

Exactly.

Not sure why people are afraid of govt rationing when the insurance companies are the most ruthless of all.

 
 
 
 
Comment by James
2009-08-15 07:11:23

My brother worked for/with all three of these companies. They have been squeezed for so long in the parts biz that he considered it inevitable. He wanted to start a small firm that was more efficient. Probably will be a good time to do so in the near future.

Low labor costs, low property cost, disorganized competition.

Trying to get him to stay where he is, NoCal, while organizing something with his old partner.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 14:27:51

Believe it or not, a lot of Amercian businesses are FOR health care insurance reform. Because that’s what it is. It is NOT health care reform, but health care INSURANCE reform. Insurance companies are killing them.

There is one group and one group only that do not want health care insurance reform. Insurance companies. You know, one of the lynch pins in the F.I.R.E. structure?

As for the “grass roots” opposition? They are made up of paid shills either knowing or unknowing and rabid true believers who drank the kool aid and think grandma is going to be left to die.

Thank god our current system doesn’t let people die who don’t have insurance.

Oh wait…

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 15:45:28

There is one group and one group only that do not want health care insurance reform. Insurance companies.

That is pure nonsense. I don’t want health care insurance reform, and I am not an insurance company.

The opposition to health care reform is about FREEDOM and choice. People are saying, do we really want a whole new dimension of government bungling and micromanagement? Do we want to hand over a whole new sector of the economy to the same PTB that have been screwing things up royally since at least 1913?

I’m as anti-corporate as you are, but not every issue fits into the mold of “people vs. profits”.

Comment by edward
2009-08-15 17:51:16

Freedom and choice?

Would that be the freedom to pay $600 a month for insurance or go totally without if I don’t like my company’s $300 a month plan?

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Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2009-08-15 21:13:03

What a goofy argument. The same people who told us with great certainty that the Iraqi’s had aluminum tubes with which they could refine uranium into weapons grade, and that we’d be in and out of Iraq inside of 36 months, are now telling us that the government is too incompetent to handle something as mundane as running a health insurance program.

The truth is somewhere in between. They’re not all incompetent baboons. After all, we did put people on the moon (one government agency did that). At the same time, we’ve seen tremendous buffoonery in the handling of Hurricane Katrina, and the shenanigans at Abhu Ghraib, just to name two. Somehow our Internal Revenue Service seems to be quite competent at collecting taxes each year, don’t they?

This blanket dismissal that the government cannot handle something as simple as health insurance claims seems a rather childish argument, if you ask me…

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Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:25:44

LVG,

Most socialist healthcare systems I’m aware do NOT prevent people from obtaining whatever medical care they want.

A working system would include a single-payer system for basic healthcare needs. If someone wanted to go above and beyond, they’d be free to purchase private, supplemental insurance or pay out of pocket for additional or “superior” care.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:21:39

Eco,you are right. That is what it is about, reform the INS corps and their denials of health claims or health procedures. THEY are the ones getting between your md and you.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 04:59:00

In the Grip of Indecision
By Laura M. Holson August 14, 2009 NYT

PICTURE this: You are standing on the edge of a pool, trying to figure out whether to dive in — do you or don’t you?

BACK AND FORTH After much deliberation, Hans Tester bought a one-bedroom. “I couldn’t take another day not deciding,” he says.

A few years ago, buying real estate was that simple. If you loved the place, you could buy it. If you were ambivalent, you could buy it anyway, because if you changed your mind later, you could always sell it at a profit.

But these days, buying a home is more psychologically demanding, fraught with conflict and confusion. Buyers and sellers need to know what they want to own, and commit to it — a challenging task for even the steeliest New Yorkers. Nothing is ever perfect, even when you have a big budget.

Confounding the emotional calculus is the fact that home prices could drop in the autumn — or not. It’s anybody’s guess.

These questions, psychologists say, have left a bewildered public even more unsure about what to do this summer, no matter what the economic indicators seem to point to. “The tipping point for many people is when they finally become exhausted by their emotions,” said Kathleen Gurney, the chief executive of the Financial Psychology Corporation in Miami, which studies the psychology of money management. “People will do anything to not regret how they feel.”

For many homeowners who bought at the top of the market, admitting what now seems to have been a mistake is painful, and could keep them from selling, even though the decision may be a smart one. “If they don’t sell, they don’t regret the loss,” Dr. Gurney said. Others don’t want to look dumber than their equally unfortunate friends.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 05:15:44

“Buyers and sellers need to know what they want to own, and commit to it — a challenging task for even the steeliest New Yorkers.”

Yes, because we all know that living in New York makes everybody a shrewd business mind. WTF? People in this city are so devoid of reality. Just walk the streets, go to bars or listen to your co-workers. Most of this people in this town that have money either inherited it or stumbled upon it accidentally. The great mass of “steely New Yorkers” probably shouldn’t be allowed to open a checking account. But buy now or be priced out forever.

Comment by mgnyc99
2009-08-15 06:01:16

“Most of this people in this town that have money either inherited it or stumbled upon it accidentally. The great mass of “steely New Yorkers” probably shouldn’t be allowed to open a checking account.”

THAT IS SO TRUE!

The people i know who have “money” only a fraction actually worked for it.

My wifes girlfriend has been telling her all week how broke her and her husband (and 2 young kids) are

they “own” a home on Long island (snicker) that her parents forked over the 20% dp for 5 years ago

anyway the value went thru the roof (go figure) and her lawyer
husband tapped it hard and now his business is pretty much DOA and he has this alligator to feed but has no savings

he used to tell my wife how much money he made (lol)
what do i know i am a low life renter

she wants out of the marriage (surprise) but has not worked in 12 years and does not have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of

a real debt slave - i feel for the kids

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 06:14:29

What a wonderful post. You have summed up much of the mentality of this city. The boom never ends, until it does.

“she wants out of the marriage (surprise) but has not worked in 12 years and does not have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of”

You just wonder what future people such as this have. They get to be in their 40s and realize they have nothing. It’s not so easy to start fresh at 40, like it was at 20. More nightmares are coming. They better hope the .gov can get house prices soaring upwards again.

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Comment by Kim
2009-08-15 14:24:48

“she wants out of the marriage (surprise) but has not worked in 12 years and does not have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of”

“You just wonder what future people such as this have.”

They used to become real estate agents. But that’s not going to work so well anymore.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-15 05:58:15

“The tipping point for many people is when they finally become exhausted by their emotions,” said Kathleen Gurney, the chief executive of the Financial Psychology Corporation in Miami, which studies the psychology of money management. “People will do anything to not regret how they feel.”

Let me tell you about being exhausted by my emotions. Woke up at 3:30 a.m. and noticed that my oh-so-bright solar driveway light was off. And that thing’s supposed to be on from dusk to dawn.

Could one of my wiseheimer neighbors have reached up there and turned it off? Or is it defective?

A whole gamut of exhausting emotions started stampeding through my brain. They prevented me from getting back to sleep. I’m at the computer at this hour so I can find instructions on how to troubleshoot my light’s problem. I think I’ve found a solution, and once it’s lighter outside, I’m going to go out and implement it.

So, if these prospective homebuyers are exhausted by their emotions now, wait ’til they actually move into their houses. Oh, boy. That’ll be a show to see.

Comment by Rancher
2009-08-15 06:23:44

Slim,
It’ll come on when the sun comes up, it IS
solar powered, isn’t it?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:24:57

LOL, good one rancher. Slim sorry you were sleepus interruptus.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 06:37:55

“Potential for Rotten Neighbors” is very high up on my “1,000 Reasons Why I Will Never Own Again” list. Good luck, Slim.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 07:28:45

My neighbors and I were just talking the same subject this morning. I am so thankful I have good neighbors where I rent. We are a “lookout for each other, help each other” neighborhood. Grateful.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 15:31:00

By comparison, many of my neighbors ane I are excellent friends. Heck, I even know some of their parents and grandparents.

Surprise, surprise! Not one of them is stressed about their finances. It’s a whole lot of “We said so all along!”

And yes, a conversation where everybody agrees on something does get a little boring. But there’s always wine for that.

LOL

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-15 15:55:43

FPSS, where you been, man?? Been missing having you around here…

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 16:17:30

Just been doing summery stuff. Having fun, that kinda thing. I’ll try and stop by more often. :-)

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-15 16:27:14

Glad to hear it’s causing you’re having fun! Summer is good for that… I’ve been MIA more weekends myself. I feared that perhaps you had had your fill of schadenfreude, and your trademark laugh would warm our halls no more. I’m relieved to learn that is not the case! :-)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 18:07:22

Just scroll down, baby, to hear my trademark laugh in a trademark-ish sorta way!

GIGGLE

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 08:11:34

my solar lights often don’t make it all through the night, especially after cloudy days and in the winter

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-15 08:24:09

“home prices could drop in the autumn — or not. It’s anybody’s guess.”

Anybody’s guess? What a laugh. As someone posted last night, EVERY non-realtor commentator believes prices will drop further.

So it’s not “anybody’s” guess, it’s the realtards’ guess on one side and everybody else’s guess on the other side.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-15 10:22:51

“home prices could drop in the autumn — or not”

Don’t you just love the 50-50 heding going here.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 14:37:56

Without being able to rely on steady, LONG TERM employment, it is foolish to commit to ANY long term debt.

As it has been pointed out many times, when RE was rising every year, you didn’t have to worry about your job. (more or less) Loose job, sell house. Move, get new job, get new house. (again more or less)

Now? Forget it. Without a lot of money in the bank or a guaranteed long term employment contract, I will never buy a house. (except as an investment and only if the market ever comes back)

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-15 17:45:41

Correct, Ecofeco. My 2002 Mazda Protege just turned over 100,000 miles. I don’t want a car payment for a long, long time. When this car finally dies, hopefully after another 85,000 miles at least, I’ll start driving my husband’s really cool (!) turquoise 1992 Honda hatchback to work. That’ll set’em back in the parking lot when they drive in in their new leasemobiles. Nothing’s cooler than a slightly rusted out, turquoise, 1992 Honda hatchback. Not even a Golden Retriever that just had a bath and is shaking its coat out all over your house.

 
 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 05:09:08

Yesterday there was a post about the need to buy in New York City because of hyperinflation or currency devaluation. I guess some people wanted this idea debated.

For anybody to feel a need to quickly buy in Manhattan for these reasons is beyond my ability to understand.

What do they think would be so great in Manhattan, or any part of NYC, during a currency devaluation? I would expect massive economic difficulties in all boroughs, especially at the lowest ends of the economic spectrum. The crime rates of the 70s and 80s could easily resort back to the norm in all areas of The City. Well trained gangs and thugs would be brazen and work freely.

The criminal element in this city has great logistics. The subway gives them the ability to move freely to nearly any neighborhood they like. The advent of cell phones and wireless communication gives great ability to coordinate efforts. Good luck protecting that valuable co-op and yourself in such an event.

There would be no way to pick a winning neighborhood when it comes to real estate. I would guess that nearly every neighborhood would crash hard. Property taxes would most likely skyrocket just to keep local government functioning. Property owners will have huge targets on their backs. Who would be able to render their debt unto Caesar during such a time? The mortgage might be great but the tax bill would be a killer.

Anybody that was critical of pointing out how dumb that statement was must not live here. I listen to that crap at work all the time and have had enough of the simplistic view, “real estate is the path to riches”. It is beyond tiresome. I would expect more from anybody that has been on this blog for several years.

To buy now, dreaming of currency collapse, means that a person would think they can pay off the mortgage with ease as the loan amount looks miniscule during hyperinflation. Thinking you can time that is one heck of a bet. Just look at all the things a determined government and their corporate masters have been able to prolong and extend. That collapse could come tomorrow, ten years from now or never.

If I wanted to protect against currency collapse the last thing I would do is “buy now” in Manhattan or the surrounding areas, unless I was very politically connected. I might buy the universal currencies of gold and silver (even those haven’t skyrocketed to $5,000 and $50 per ounce like many predictions). You’d be better off to rent out a space in the country or buy a small building. Stock it with booze and cigarettes and toiletries that would be very valuable during a currency collapse. Those are the hard assets I would most want to control in a currency collapse, not some silly apartment in Brooklyn or the Upper East Side.

I did not work to offer a lengthy rebuttal yesterday to the “buy now in NYC” argument because I felt that the statement was so ludicrous that it didn’t really need one. To get on this blog and say, “buy now in Manhattan” is like walking into a cathedral and shouting obscenities. It is even more gutsy to say it to people living in New York that have to listen to drones say these very same things day after day. In short, it is an insult to people’s intelligence.

But I have heard it is a great time to buy in San Diego.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 05:32:15

Great post NYCityBoy. Although I don’t live in NY, I agree with everything you said.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 05:42:01

And I forget to mention that during the last bout of high inflation in the U.S., in the late 70s and early 80s, there were stories of people buying up buildings in Manhattan for $1. They just needed to pay the tax bill. And even then they could not find buyers. Contrarily, real estate skyrocketed during this decade when things boomed and seemed secure.

That would make me think that history has shown that real estate is an awful asset to hold during high inflation (or currency collapse).

Comment by mgnyc99
2009-08-15 06:03:58

hey its different here!

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 06:11:46

It sure is.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-15 06:47:29

Thanks for a great set of posts, mgnyc and CityBoy.

 
 
Comment by Xenos
2009-08-15 09:13:20

Back in the late 80s I lived in NYC for a few weeks and got a temp job answering phones for the city water commission. They had just put in a 100% water rate increase and made it retroactive for 18 months. I was hired to answer the phone and get yelled at, in all sorts of interesting ways and languages, by the property owners in the city. All those desperate, bitter, small-time landlords who had immigrated to the city and bought a sure deal rental property were getting reamed out by the city. I really felt sorry for them.

The lesson was that when times get tough, small time property owners get fleeced. I am glad I learned that while still young.

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Comment by rms
2009-08-15 23:03:05

“They had just put in a 100% water rate increase and made it retroactive for 18 months.”

I would think that some aspiring young lawyer would have challenged the retroactive part. 18-months? Wow!

 
 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 05:53:17

NYCboy:

Buying a home meant stability, your home base and possibly the house you will retire or die in. I can’t remember anytime in my life where people would automatically buy a house when they moved to a new city and a new job. Unless it was like the Police chief, school superintendent, high level high paying jobs.

——The crime rates of the 70s and 80s could easily resort back to the norm in all areas of The City.——-

Believe it or not the worst train was the 7 they had to have armed cops on every train to protect the Met fans going to shea stadium. Flushing was a ghetto, before the asians took over.

—-Property taxes would most likely skyrocket—-And guess what my rent would too, landlords are not like my mom.

—-There would be no way to pick a winning neighborhood when it comes to real estate——–

Agreed but nabes like mine in Sunnyside would fare better because very little new construction and very little house sales almost all the people on my street are still here after 9 years…we really do know each other and would help each other out

—-Stock it with booze and cigarettes and toiletries—-

Agreed again not sure about currency collapse or hyperinflation, but some gold and silver coins just in case is still a good idea

Oh and i would never buy unless i had a garage/driveway for off street parking….you never know if your family will need a place to live too…..Hmmm a garage/ hidden/covered parking spaces could be a nice income steam for those high priced cars

 
Comment by James
2009-08-15 07:26:22

I guess people don’t understand. Hyperinflation means 100% unemployment and we are bartering.

Yeah, you will have a house in NYC but no cops, no gasoline, no food source and probably no power in short order.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-15 08:41:06

The crime rates of the 70s and 80s could easily resort back to the norm in all areas of The City. Well trained gangs and thugs would be brazen and work freely.

This applies not only to NYC, but any major American city.

Why are memories so short regarding the chaotic state of US cities in the late ’60s, ’70s, and early ’80s? Many urban areas then seemed to be on the edge of oblivion. Why can’t that happen again? The incredibly sad state of Detroit should be lesson enough — in the late ’50s or early ’60s, no one would’ve thought the Motor City would be reduced to a barely functioning skeleton of its former self.

 
Comment by edhopper
2009-08-15 08:44:50

“Median income, Queens NY-$48000
The median home cost in Queens County is $431,250. Home appreciation the last year has been -9.40 percent.

Compared to the rest of the country, Queens County’s cost of living is 59.12% Higher than the U.S. average.”

Buy now or be priced out for ever. Use that $600,000 you have laying around and get a started home. Or how about $400,000 for a condo with a $900 maintenance?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2009-08-15 10:27:41

So, are you saying that I should buy now or not? I’m confused.

Comment by edhopper
2009-08-15 15:29:06

Sarcasm just doesn’t come through on the net.
I guess I need the little roll your eyes emoticon. ;-}

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 10:04:45

“But I have heard it is a great time to buy in San Diego.”

No job security, no job prospects, no savings, no stock market or home equity wealth, but nonetheless, homes are plenty affordable — because the California Association of Used Home Sales Cheerleaders says so. In fact, affordability is not just good — it’s actually leaping good!

Never mind that anyone hapless enough to have bought this time last year has seen a 20 percent plus decline in their home equity wealth (i.e., they are probably at least 10 percent underwater by now).

Homebuying affordability leaps
Index: 59% of renters should be able to buy; 46% last year

In The Union-Tribune on Page C1
By Roger Showley
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

Three years of declining home prices have meant good news for first-time homebuyers, many of whom had been frozen out of the market when prices hit the stratosphere. Affordability levels look the best in years for renters wanting to become owners, the California Association of Realtors reported yesterday.

Comment by sdguy
2009-08-15 13:41:47

I read this article this am.I knew by the time I got here you would be on top of it. : )Yes I still read daily though I havent posted much lately. Just wanted to make sure this BS article made it here.
The point I think is interesting is the affordability they are talking about.
“For San Diego, the latest figures showed a median price of $295,000, qualifying income of $52,550 and monthly housing payment of $1,750, including principal, interest, taxes and insurance. Nearly 60 percent of local households have the income necessary to buy such a house.”

If there truly is a bank loaning at these standards in this environment, they will join the other 73 this year that have failed and the foreclosures will continue even longer.

Also the I just love the quote “We need more inventory — that will be helpful,” Weichert said.”

I have been watching realtytrac and there are 14,000 foreclosures this week in San Diego.The amount stays in that range.
If you have a copy of the UT checkout the huge ad for new homes next to the article.They are pushing all the condos downtown at very high prices.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:34:18

todays Flipping houses show with mr armando had him helping out a San Clemente family get their house back on track, finish building and possibly not be foreclosed on.

Short story, Living in trailer behind friends house, lost job, had a stroke and made very bad money decisions and contractor ran off with some of $$, foreclosed and had to sell all jewelry.
House was bought 2002 and homes nicer in that area weren’t being bought for more than 5 months.Price drop of
1,399,000 to 1,100,00 to foreclosure not one offer.
And with Views of ocean too.
I think prices are still going down.

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Comment by NYchk
2009-08-15 20:19:54

“pointing out how dumb that statement was”

Right back at you? LOL.

Just because you can’t imagine something happening, does not mean my concern is not valid. “Hope for the best, plan for the worst”. Currency collapses happened quite a few times in similar circumstances. Doesn’t mean it definitely WILL happen, I sure hope not, however, better prepared and safe than sorry.

“To buy now, dreaming of currency collapse…”

No, not “dreaming”. It’s a nightmare, not a dream. I assure you I really do NOT want to go through another one. However, what I currently see looks eerily familiar. A country up to its eyeballs in external debt, no way to ever pay it back, at the mercy of its external creditors, and once the music stops… not good.

I’ve been on this blog several years, and I never hid my view - I’m afraid deflation will be followed by inflation, quite possibly hyper-inflation. I’ve been searching hard, but I did not find any convincing arguments for a different scenario, for deflation to continue indefinitely… and unfortunately the goverment seems hell bent on inflating their way out of trouble. Not encouraging at all, IMO.

No, I do not “dream” about currency collapse. I simply don’t want to lose my savings. It’s not about getting rich, it’s about how to preserve and not lose what I already have.

Gold (gosh, I hate gold, but it is a decent currency devaluation hedge), commodities, hard assets. And also owning a roof over my head - I definitely want that. Rents rise FAST during inflation, certainly not any slower than property taxes.

As to “why look in NYC”? Because I work in Manhattan and don’t believe in long commute. However, I’m not married to it - unless NYC prices come down to reasonable levels, I’ll buy elsewhere. I hear California is falling nicely, LOL.

Why buy “now”? I never said “now”. I said “within a year”. Why so soon? Well, you got me there - I had the same timeframe last year, “within a year” - yet here I am, still renting, because NYC prices proved so damned sticky. A few years back, when I first started posting here, I thought summer 2009 will be a good entry point. However, the prices are still high.

So for me, the game continues - waiting for NYC prices to fall while anxiously looking over my shoulder for any sign of inflation gathering steam…

P.S. I don’t think Mad Max scenario is probable, although anything is possible. But from my previous hyperinflation / societal collapse experience, living in a very big city proved a life-saver, and was much preferable to being in a small city far from distribution channels, airports, hospitals, and concentration of police.

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 01:55:55

Your opinion is highly valued, NYchk, because you’ve had experiences that we most definitely do not.

My mother also lived through a currency collapse, and said very much what you have said.

With all due respect to NYCboy, I think we need to **listen** to each others’ POV and try to understand that the potential outcomes are varied. The more input we have, the better informed our decisions.

Thanks for contributing, NYchk!

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:30:09

NYC, remember during the 80s when women on west side were getting
-serious now- pricked with a pin. Freaking everyone out was some guy sticking a needle into passing women. People were really freaking about the possibility of aids or hep c or? So, gangs or just lone pricksters.
Doesn’t matter what neighborhood.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 05:09:23

China steel workers trap official in 4-day protest
Hundreds of China steel workers trap official during 4-day protest of plant purchase. August 15, 2009

BEIJING (AP) — Hundreds of steel workers in central China trapped a government official in their factory’s office compound for four days, angry at the official’s role in the state-run plant’s privatization, the local government said Saturday.

A local official denied a report in state-run media that armed police were dispatched to clear out the workers, saying they left voluntarily after the government persuaded them to go.

“No conflict broke out during the protest, which was related to the restructuring of the steel company,” the official, surnamed Zhang, with Anyang city in Henan province, told The Associated Press.

As many as 400 workers for the Linzhou Steel Corporation and their relatives dispersed early Saturday after surrounding the company’s offices since Tuesday, the Linzhou city government said in a notice on its Web site. Anyang city oversees Linzhou city.

Protests are common in China, especially as state-run companies are sold off and privatized, leading to layoffs. The government is also shutting down old, polluting steel mills to make way for more efficient plants.

A similar protest last month in northeastern China led to the general manager of a state-owned steel plant being beaten to death. That plant’s merger was called off.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 15:04:22

Even the lowly Chinese worker (Jong6P) knows that mergers and reorganizations mean layoffs.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 16:00:24

I wonder if there’s any way to e-mail these people… without getting blocked by the Great Firewall…

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 05:40:02

I use Yahoo as a search engine. I have to look at that ugly woman Lynndie England all weekend, when I am here and want to get on line anyway. I’ll never forget that photo of her with a cig hanging out of her mouth. Disgusting human being.

I bet Step agrees too, or maybe he has something to add to the subject I don’t know about. Also, Step, how was the Steak and Shrimp?

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 05:56:11

I hope Step is not here today:

7 die, 91 wounded in blast near NATO HQ in KabulAP

Blast at NATO Afghan Headquarters Kills Several Play Video AP – Blast at NATO Afghan Headquarters Kills Several

KABUL – A suicide car bomb exploded Saturday outside the main gate of NATO’s headquarters five days before Afghanistan’s presidential election, killing seven and wounding 91 in the biggest attack in the Afghan capital in six months.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 06:45:10

He’s not in Kabul. He’s in Kandahar, I think?

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 15:06:21

Wow. Intel is slipping.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 05:47:19

“It’s no longer a credit expansion; it’s a credit contraction. The consumer has had his fill of debt. He’s cutting back on his spending and paying off debt. That’s what the July figures show. That’s been the history of the entire downturn.

That’s why it’s a depression, not a recession. It’s a major change of direction that will take years to accomplish. Now, stimulus is not only useless – since it is against the major trend – its counterproductive. It delays and contradicts the adjustments that need to be made.”

~Bill Bonner

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-15 08:27:15

“Counterproductive” depends what you’re trying to produce. I’m always thinking that delay is a productive tactic for banks, because it keeps those who are NOT underwater from walking away. Keep those debt slaves paying as long as possible. Believe me, I know my own view as a noteholder is exactly that!

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 09:04:24

“…The consumer has had his fill of debt. He’s cutting back on his spending and paying off debt.”

Is there a difference between “Paying off debt”… vs… “Letting go of debt” ;-)

Because I think it’s more of the latter… imho

“…It delays and contradicts the adjustments that need to be made.”

A statement clearly made by someone whose income is not derived from “taxation of the people” ;-)

 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-15 09:16:49

Nice post wmbz…

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 09:40:50

“…He claims that America’s foreign policy exploits are tantamount to the establishment of an empire, and the price of maintaining such an empire could accelerate America’s eventual decline.” ~Bill Bonner ;-)

Obviously, he’s never interviewed Cheney…run Bill…Run! :-)

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 16:35:18

Do you realize that Clinton got our troops involved in something like 60 overseas conflicts?

(And how did you manage to write a post above that didn’t even mention Cheney once?)

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 19:19:40

Really?, I’m in “Shock & Awe”… :-)

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:02:28

wow, leh guy, those are some amazing #s. You drinking, cause that is when the ‘my fish was this big’ stories come out.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 05:51:48

Rep. Ron Paul, a medical doctor, was written off by mainstream media as a whacko with ideas that were alien to the American way of life. Lately, though, some of his suggestions…such as auditing the Federal Reserve…have been gaining some traction. And what does his think of expanding the federal government’s role in medical insurance and services?

“The government simply does not have the money for a new, expansive, public healthcare plan. The country is in a deep recession that will deepen even further with the coming collapse of the commercial real estate market. The last thing we need is for government to increase and expand taxes to pay for another damaging, wasteful program. Foreigners are becoming less enthusiastic about buying our debt, and creating another open-ended welfare program when we cannot pay for what is already in place, will not help. Champions of socialized medicine want to tax the rich, tax businesses that already cannot afford to provide health plans to employees, and tax people who don’t want to participate in the government’s scheme by buying an approved healthcare plan. Presumably, all these taxes are to induce compliance. This is not freedom, nor will it improve healthcare.” Economic Fantasy

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 06:18:25

Dr.Paul is correct IMO, and I am a self-employed person who detests our current system. I shop hospitalization coverage every year, and have done so for a decade.

Just last week our supreme leader stated the a sickness care system like the one they have in place in Canada would NOT work here in the U.S.A. So what will we get? A mangled up mess of some unknown concoction created by a top heavy group of bureaucrats, that they themselves won’t even sign up for!

We will get something, and we will get it good, hard and continuous. Count on it.

Comment by daveinpdx
2009-08-15 06:50:05

Representative John Fleming-La has cosponsored the Empowering Patients First Act. In addition there is resolution 615 he is sponsoring to force members of congress to “take their own medicine” by signing up for the public option health plan, text below:
RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that
Members who vote in favor of the establishment of a
public, federal government run health insurance option
are urged to forgo their right to participate in the Fed-
eral Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) and
agree to enroll under that public option.
Resolved, That it is the sense of the House of Representatives that Members who vote in favor of the establishment of a public, federal government run health insurance option are urged to forgo their right to participate in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) and agree to enroll under that public option.

Comment by Chip
2009-08-15 10:02:41

“Are urged” is a far cry from “are required.”

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Comment by SDGreg
2009-08-16 03:06:20

That public option might be better and cheaper than the FEHBP as the FEHBP is nothing more than a collection of plan options from the for profit insurance companies.

As one who has coverage through the FEHBP, you have a choice of multiple plans which you may change once per year. There are no pre-existing condition clauses either. Those are the pluses. However, all of the other usual issues with private insurance plans still apply - premiums going up each year well above the rate of the inflation, co-pays going up, etc.

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Comment by ACH
2009-08-15 08:48:25

What will you get?
I hope it is the Mayo Clinic System. It was born and bred right here in the USA. I’ve looked into this, and we would be doing the best that we could do with the Mayo System. If you have a better idea, I’m all ears.

BTW, I am not a Ron Paul supporter. Many on this blog are and I respect them. I don’t like his ideas about health care. He wants to completely abolish the health care system. It appears to me that we will not be getting more affordable care insomuch as no care.

Roidy

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 09:16:16

“The government simply does not have the money for a new, expansive, public healthcare plan”

But the “Nation” can continue to let 6 out of 10 people who need to have ANY kind of surgery…file for bankruptcy after they are “healed”. :-)

“It appears to me that we will not be getting more affordable care insomuch as no care”

No, our Nation should absolutely NOTHING! … just wait another 14 years, until the “TrueDeceiver’s™”, modify their “Contract with America” and have everybody go see a “Southern Evangelical” preacher as the first step in the providing “health care” …He’ll just give them a slap on the head and declare: “Be gone Satan!” :-)

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Comment by Xenos
2009-08-15 09:27:19

No need to abolish the medical insurance business - just to abolish for-profit health insurance companies. They are an abomination and should never have been allowed to exist in the first place.

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Comment by Xenos
2009-08-15 09:29:14

It should also be illegal for a non-profit to pay any employee more than $200,000 per year. Wealthy power brokers and self-dealers have captured control of the blue cross/blue shield charities, and they should be jailed for it.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-08-15 14:03:24

It should also be illegal for a non-profit to pay any employee more than $200,000 per year

why $200k? why not 100k? or 10k?

See the absurdity of trying to set a limit? Probably not…

Non-profits can pay as much as they want. People should stop donating to non-profits that pay crazy high wages to those in charge, if they feel it’s a waste in funds. And vote against non-profits being tax-exempt if that’s their belief…

Basically, you’re trying to make a subjective judgment that non-profits don’t have the need to hire someone with a market value above $200k. That’s really not your place (nor government’s) to say so. Should they be able to pay lawyers $300/hr, since annualized that’s over $200k? Can they not have in-house counsel?

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 16:44:25

Again, the distinction between for-profit and not-for-profit corps is not really the point. Profit is simply an accounting construct. The real problem with ANY corporation is that it muddies property ownership beyond recognition. You have a huge pool of assets, legally owned by a nebulous, ever-changing group, “managed” by a few politically connected bosses– the proverbial foxes guarding the hen-house.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-08-15 14:08:33

Obamacare as Joshua Tree!

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:05:55

nah that is the rep stance. More lies than sticking points from a JT.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 20:53:25

“A mangled up mess of some unknown concoction created by a top heavy group of bureaucrats, that they themselves won’t even sign up for!”

How do you even know that much about Obamacare? All I have heard about it is ‘rationing’, ‘kill grandma’, etc. This is a PR disaster of epic proportions.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 05:56:19

“The average man doesn’t want to be free. He wants to be safe.”

~H.L. Mencken

Comment by In Colorado
2009-08-15 06:32:49

In this age of super billionaires its not possible to be free. Either you are a billionaire, or they own you.

Ask the near 20% unemployed and everyone else who is worried about losing their job about freedom.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-08-15 08:03:19

Stay out of debt, live well under your means, and no one owns you, no matter whether you make a few or a million.

No one, except the local, state, and federal governments, of course. They have various claims against my well-being and can make life very uncomfortable should I choose not to comply with their demands.

Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-15 08:58:49

In recent weeks, I’ve re-watched the entire World At War series (the Laurence Olivier chestnut). I hadn’t seen it in 20 years (I was in my 20s back then) - it’s interesting what the passing years does to one’s view of man. One of the best quotes in the series IMO was the following:

“Freedom Means You’re Not Forced To Lie”

It was spoken by a German civilian, in response to Hitler’s machinations and tyranny. (World at War, Hitler’s Germany: Part 2. 1939-1945).

With that in mind, who is the bigger threat? A band of billionaires who may hold the reigns of your purse strings, or governments who have the legal right to use guns to enforce their demands?

I feel no threat from billionaires, as I have resources saved and live beneath my means.

The latter? Just the opposite. I have nowhere near the resources to counter their threat. And that’s just as they want it.

I wonder how many people on this board have felt compelled to lie due to actions of billionaires - and, conversely, to actions of local, state and federal governments.

It’d be an interesting poll to take…provided those polled would feel safe enough to answer the questions honestly.
“Freedom means you’re never forced to lie.”

Good quote.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-15 10:07:45

I wonder how many people on this board have felt compelled to lie due to actions of billionaires - and, conversely, to actions of local, state and federal governments.

It’s a false duality when corporatist interests wield so much power in the current system. Either way, the wealthy and connected are pulling the strings.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 15:17:34

He who has the gold, makes the rules. Period.

If you have no money, you are not free. Period.

“Government” is nothing but an confederation of powerful special interests whose main interest is money (power). Period.

The best you can hope for is to have enough resources to live satisfactorily according to whatever that is for you and your family and stay under the radar of the PTB.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 16:09:32

“He who has the gold, makes the rules. Period.”

Since the gold is denominated in fiat money, doesn’t he who has the printing press determine the price of gold? Or am I missing something?

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:09:00

eudomon, cheney shot his bf lawyer in the face, so you see, even billionaires can act as the gov, and get away with it. Remember even the attny apologized for getting his face shot up.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 20:54:45

“Remember even the attny apologized for getting his face shot up.”

Makes you wonder if the family would have apologized to ‘Dick’ if the gunshot wound had been fatal?

 
 
 
 
Comment by Eudemon
2009-08-15 06:43:28

…”and be more than willing to sacrifice the freedom of others in order to achieve it.”

~ Eudemon, 2009.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 06:48:20

Total freedom is anarchy. I’ll settle for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Comment by kirisdad
2009-08-15 08:39:04

How true. Total freedom allows sociopaths to prey on others. The key to everything in life is a healthy balance.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 14:06:34

Total freedom leads to vigilante justice. The dearth of financial regulation during the debaucherous the years of US mortgage lending industry (circa 1996-2009) helps explain why many turned to blogs like this one to call attention to rampant abuses.

Shockingly, the Wall Street Journal ran an Op-ed piece this week (corroborated by an article in the current print edition of The Economist) indicating that the US federal government is perpetuating the subprime lending craze, adding insult to injury by forcing the US taxpayer to guarantee new subprime loans, long after the private subprime lending sector collapsed.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 16:50:45

Any of you opponents of “total freedom” care to explain what you’re talking about? Is only 50,000 pages added annually to the Federal Register anarchic “total freedom” whereas 80,000 pages annually is nice and secure and comfy?

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 02:47:32

How many of those pages were added because of special interests (those who own/control the money)?

I trust a government **that is accountable to the citizens** far more than I trust the financial elite whose sole purpose in life is to loot the citizens of their money (and power).

 
 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 09:21:57

Men lead lives of quite desperation…” Thoreau

“…and 51 million American’s…without health “insurance”…lead lives of even greater desperation.” Hwy

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 16:51:57

Did Thoreau have health insurance?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 06:00:36

Tips on the “pending collapse of the U.S. dollar”. We even got a warning via snail-mail from an outfit promising (for a fee) to show us to to deal with the imminent disaster.

We’ve personally been warning about the erosion of the dollar by constant inflation for years. We’re delighted to finally see some interest taken in the subject of our irredeemable fiat currency.

But, let’s not lose our heads! The dollar has been declining for nearly 70 years. It is not going to be suddenly replaced by “ameros” or an international currency later this month, as some people fear. Or next month, either.

Some commentators predict that banks will close for several days, soon, and a new form of currency will be issued when they re-open. That’s imagination in overdrive!

It’s true the U.S. dollar has lost status as the world’s reserve currency. It’s also true that another currency might take its place. That’s up to the rest of the world, not us. Individuals should worry about the future purchasing power of the dollar.

Is it poised to burst into a hyperinflationary phase, or is “The Great Recession” wiping out so much debt so fast that remaining dollars will gain some strength? Knowing the answer to that question can make a person rich.

Comment by James
2009-08-15 07:23:20

Again, credit is collapsing faster than Bernake/Geitner are willing to admit. Hence no mark to market for the big boys.

Just waiting for this to unravel in a big way here. FDIC is technically kaput as of Friday and will need to go to treasury or tarp funds for another 300B or so.

Velocity of money is slowing. I’m expecting family friends to get their foreclosure notice in a couple weeks. Family I’ve know that is renting next door for a decade, dad is in auto/equipment repair own shop/ is three months behind on rent. Walk past about a dozen vacant homes every morning. See plenty of empty shops.

Wife’s business is going downhill. Less kids sign up for tutoring though people are still somewhat willing to invest in education.

Signs are everywhere. Its creeping along slowly but still creeping. Downward pressure on rents and wages should follow.

Comment by scdave
2009-08-15 09:23:44

James…Where are you located ??

Comment by James
2009-08-15 18:26:33

Old Torrance, CA

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 10:32:08

“Wife’s business is going downhill. Less kids sign up for tutoring though people are still somewhat willing to invest in education.”

We are in the same boat. Several of our sources of free-lance income have dried up, especially my wife’s piano teaching clientele. Many of the kids have unemployed parents. My wife is continuing to teach some kids for free, and others at greatly reduced rates. There really has never been a better time to be a renter!

Now to put together that proposal to the landlord that we either need a rent reduction or else we are going to walk. The only problem is that my wife would probably need a $10K reduction in annual rent to make her willing to move all of our junk. The obvious solution: Time to have a used junk liquidation garage sale, in order to reduce our relocation burden.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 14:23:40

Same here Prof:

Had 3 HS reunions cancel already this year and maybe 2 more I get $500 to dj them…ouch Ebay sales very little but i am buying cd’s for 1 cent to 99 cents and from sellers where i can combine postage

we are actually making a good little income from cat sitting at $15-20 each 1/2 to 1 hour visit just to feed the cats clean the box play with them make sure the ac is on…give them meds..we did 4 today $80 cash easy cause i have a car and the GF usually goes in…

We are noticing more people are traveling overnight for their jobs and have to leave quickly which is good for us.
————————————
Several of our sources of free-lance income have dried up,

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 10:34:56

“Less kids sign up for tutoring though people are still somewhat willing to invest in education.”

‘Willingness’ and ability are two different matters entirely, given the existence of the household budget constraint. Apparently it is different if you are either Super-rich, or a quasi-government entity with a technology called the printing press .

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-08-15 07:53:56

Wombats, Is this you talking, or a paste?

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-16 04:59:41

Me

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-08-15 06:16:52

TS becomes Ana. So much for that always popular, hot-as-hell, August/September RE bounce in Florida.

We’ll just have to wait for the snowbirds, Boomers, foreigners, and investors now.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 06:21:35

We are over due for a nice storm to hit our S.Carolina coast, perhaps she will stear on a more northerly course and we will get to test our superior construction techniques, implemented after Hugo 1989.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 06:26:23

Yeah, you can’t get insurance now. Named storm

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-08-15 06:22:22

I had asked a few weeks ago, but my post was smashificated by Ben’s smashificator: is buying a log home in Florida insane, stupid et. al?

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-15 07:03:14

Aren’t logs in Florida termite megacities?

Maybe a brick or concrete home would be more sane?

Just guessin’, I’m in Arizona, so maybe my brain is fried.

 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-15 07:05:35

In a coastal area stick with the single story concrete block construction (cbs) with a hip roof.

Comment by exeter
2009-08-15 07:59:11

Good advice bubba. And don’t forget vertical reiforcing.

Logs look really cool and are cool until shrinkage turns those nice milled logs into pretzels. Worse yet, be happy with the floorplan you choose because moving a partition wall would have to be a costly affair filled with a$$work.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-15 09:28:31

In a coastal area stick with the single story concrete block construction (cbs) with a hip roof ?

Yep…The combination of salt & wind are a cancer on a house…I would add to soffett in the overhang area of the roof also…

 
 
Comment by SUGuy
2009-08-15 10:42:36

Log homes are very expensive to maintain. They become moldy quite easily on the inside and the indoor air quality gets compromised making them unhealthy to live. Water and sunlight do most of the damage to log homes. Exterior maintenance is expensive. Corncob, soda blasting techniques are used to remove existing stains or sealers, then the outside needs to be sanded, after that it is washed, dried and re-stained. It is not uncommon to pay 15K to 20K for an average restoration projects every 4 to 5 years.

I would not recommend a log home.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 14:28:23

Then how did Lincoln survive back 150 years ago?

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-17 05:06:34

Abe was in Illinois, not Florida :)

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-15 06:56:22

Thousands more could soon lose homes in ’second wave’ of repossessions.
U.K.Daily Mail
15th August 2009

A second wave of home repossessions could soon sweep across the country, experts warned yesterday.

They said that although the number of those losing their homes has fallen recently, the outlook remains bleak.

Repossessions between April and June were 10 per cent lower than the previous three months.
Fewer people hare having their homes repossessed

Fewer people are having their homes repossessed thanks to low interest rates and more help from lenders

However, this is still 14 per cent higher than a year ago, while the number of those in serious arrears has soared by almost 50 per cent in a year.

Repossessions are falling because interest rates are at record lows and the Government has been putting pressure on lenders to take a softer line on those behind on payments.

Banks and building societies have also held off repossessing homes because of low house prices.

However, the housing charity Shelter is concerned that once interest rates and prices begin to rise again, the banks will step up their property grab.

A spokesman said: ‘Shelter fears a second, more devastating tidal wave of repossessions is coming as unemployment continues to rise, the recession deepens and at some point, interest rates begin to climb again.’

Its director of policy and campaigns, Kay Boycott, called for lenders to allow those in arrears to switch from high fixed rates to low variable rates.

‘Banks have been bailed out with billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money,’ she said. ‘Now it’s time to ensure they do everything they can to keep customers in their homes.

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 02:59:12

Its director of policy and campaigns, Kay Boycott, called for lenders to allow those in arrears to switch from high fixed rates to low variable rates.
———————–

Isn’t this what caused all the problems in the first place???

 
 
Comment by dimedropped
2009-08-15 07:07:31

Muggy- I am a Florida Appraiser and I can tell you that there is a limited market for log homes. The reasons vary from WDO, wood destroying organism issues to simple lack of appreciation by the public. Many people seem to think they are dirty and hard to keep clean. HUH?

There is a market for them and some people love them but Mom makes most of the decisions on buying and the women by and large seem to prefer traditional light bright homes.

Who knows? We guys love our forts.

Comment by Muggy
2009-08-15 08:06:40

“Who knows? We guys love our forts.”

Lol! Fortunately my wife likes log homes, too. This particular one is on 5 acres, adjacent to a nature preserve (ah, silence) and in a good school zone. We’re still set on upstate NY (she 100%, me 90%), but I am not opposed to keeping my eye on the oddball stuff that I love so dearly.

My wife in singularly focused on being near her mom. I keep in mind that we have decent jobs here.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-15 10:03:10

My wife in singularly focused on being near her mom.

Once you have two mini-muggs, that proximity to family will loom large.

A fort on five acres sounds pretty rad, though.

 
 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-15 07:25:24

I am off to beautiful lake Greenville, Il for the weekend. It IS very pretty. Me and a gang are going boating and drinking beer. Good memories there, so many good memories.

Hope everyone here has a great weekend!

ATE

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 03:00:28

Have a great time, ATE! :)

 
 
Comment by waitinginPA
2009-08-15 07:33:59

I have been reading the blog for years now, but I haven’t posted much. I remember seeing that someone was looking in the Horsham/Montgomery County area in Pennsylvania. We have started looking for a house in the area this summer and would like to compare thoughts as to what is going on in the market here. If anyone out there has insight into this area, I would welcome your feedback.

Thanks!

Comment by scdave
2009-08-15 09:32:45

waitinginPA…Keep posting your questions…I suspect someone will finally be able to offer some advise…

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 10:00:45

Hi Waiting:

The consensus seem that buying anything now is foolish, unless you intend to die in that house. So price really doesn’t matter much.

If its going to be your last and dream house and the payments are affordable does it really matter if its $275K or $225K or even $199K?

 
 
Comment by krazy bill
2009-08-15 07:38:43

After banking at S&L’s and credit unions for 4 decades i recently opened a tiny account at Chase. If the inept bunglers and carnival barkers at my branch are representative of the commercial banking industry it is no wonder that the banks have lost trillions of dollars.

Comment by scdave
2009-08-15 09:34:33

inept bunglers and carnival barkers ??

Amen…It is becoming very irritating going to the bank these days…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 15:33:03

They are indeed representative.

Remember, the incompetent will never hire or knowingly keep the competent around as they are a threat. Thus the problem perpetuates and compounds itself.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 07:48:07

So if almost 1/3 of mortgages in (traditionally) non-bubbly St. Louis are underwater, I am wondering how that percentage looks in California, where home prices dropped by, what, 40 percent? I am guessing it must be over 50 percent.

An obvious related question: What percent of underwater owners will walk away before the housing bust is over?

Negative equity about the norm in St. Louis
by Tim Logan
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
08/15/2009

Despite St. Louis’ relatively affordable cost of housing, borrowers here are just about as likely as the nation as a whole to owe more on their house than it’s worth.

Those are the findings of a new report out this week from First American Core Logic, which tracks real estate and foreclosure data. In the second quarter of the year, it found, 29.5 percent of St. Louis mortgages were “underwater” — that is, borrowers owed more on their mortgage than their house is worth. That’s 170,871 homes. An additional 38,000, or roughly 6.5 percent, are “near negative equity” — within 5 percent of being underwater.

Nationwide, the underwater figure sits at 32.2 percent, and another 6 percent are nearly there.

This is a serious problem for the housing market, and broader economy, said Mark Fleming, First American CoreLogic’s chief economist, because such negative equity situations are a major factor in the stubbornly high rate of foreclosure.

“Negative equity continues to be the dominant driver of the mortgage market because it leads to foreclosures in the event a borrower experiences some kind of economic shock: job loss, illness or other adverse situation,” he said. “Until negative equity recedes and unemployment declines, mortgage risk will continue to be very elevated.”

Comment by edhopper
2009-08-15 08:51:43

The problem is that buyers don’t understand that houses are still worth what they were in 2005.
Here in Queens the sellers are sure of this.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 09:27:20

“What percent of underwater owners will walk away before the housing bust is over?”

Good question…here’s something to go with it…”what percentage of “Adults” walking away, will be holding on to the hands of young children?”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 14:32:20

I suppose there will be a lot of 4-year old “adults” holding the hands of their “children” parents.

At least, in terms of the intelligence scale.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 14:40:18

Maybe when the kids get into the 5th grade…there will be a new chapter on “The Ownership Society of America, circa 2001-2007″ :-)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 10:44:38

Apparently the “real” percent of underwater US mortgages is apparently rather hard to nail down. This ABC News piece from Fresno claims it is about 38 percent; Zilldo claims it is well under 30 percent. The true number lies somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Localrss
Most Fresno Mortgages Are Underwater
Saturday, August 15, 2009 | 12:00 AM

By Corin Hoggard

Fresno, CA (KFSN) — Homeowners all over Fresno are experiencing a drowning feeling right now. A new report from the real estate data provider First American CoreLogic shows 56% of all mortgages are underwater or upside down — meaning the house is worth less than what’s owed on the mortgage.

Nationwide, about 38% of all residential properties are in the same situation. That means more than 81,000 properties have negative equity in Fresno right now. In the entire state, 2.9 million are upside down.

For many of those homeowners, that means they’re on the verge of foreclosure, but there are a few options to turn them back right side up. The dead grass in front of a home near Hayes and Herndon is a dead giveaway in an otherwise tidy northwest Fresno neighborhood: the home is in foreclosure. People started buying homes in the development four years ago at the market’s peak.

“Anybody could buy a house,” said David Schilling, from Fresno’s Royal Charter Mortgage Company. “And everybody did. And everybody was riding that wave up. Their neighbor bought a house, their friend at work. They all wanted to do that.”

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 16:54:05

Good old Zildo. It’s hard to know whose estimate to trust these days.

Take my old stucco box in San Jose. I sold it for $670K in 2006.

Zillow now says it’s worth $527K, up $50K in the last 30 days.

AOL says it’s worth $371K, down $6,930 in the last 30 days.

Why such an enormous spread?

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 17:25:45

Eek a typo. Make that Zillow says $572K - that’s even worse.

Slightly more than a $200K spread.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 18:45:25

maybe there are 20 others at a wishing price of $572K, but the only one that actually sold was at $371….?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-08-15 10:01:04

OT. Last week I had to go to a local lab, Quest Diagnostics (the one dictated by my insurance company), for routine semi-annual blood work. The clerk politely demanded my insurance card and my drivers license, the latter presumably for identification. Without telling me she would do so, she quickly swiped my drivers license through a card reader. Is this a normal practice, and is there a good reason for it? It’s not like they’d lose a fortune if I were a fraudulent testee. I can’t figure out why a medical lab has the authority and software to read what’s encoded in my drivers license in the first place.

Comment by drumminj
2009-08-15 14:07:32

Interesting, Chip. I’d be curious to hear what you learn about this. I’d be concerned as well.

I suppose it’s just a means to test that the driver’s license is legit. I recall bars starting to do this as well back in Illinois right after I moved away.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-08-15 14:15:10

Hee hee, South Carolina drivers licenses don’t adhere to the new federal standard. There’s no data to “swipe.”

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 14:45:36

“…I can’t figure out why a medical lab has the authority and software to read what’s encoded in my drivers license in the first place.”

Hey Chip, did the front office desk have one of those scrolling digital picture frames (made in China), showing cute “feel good” photo’s… while it’s sending “captured data” back to: Russia, China, Bulguria, … :-)

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-15 15:41:47

Selling state drivers license info and or providing access to it was done years ago.

Yes, your own government sold you out and down the river. Same thing with offshoring. And now TARP.

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-15 18:04:11

They are making sure that the person who is using the insurance is the actual person whose entitled to use it. Hence, the checking of the license to make sure it’s genuine.

 
Comment by incredulous
2009-08-16 09:10:06

That’s interesting, I went to LabCorp a few weeks ago, and they asked for insurance card, driver’s license, AND CREDIT CARD. As I was about to object, I noticed the sign that their new policy is to require credit card even if you have insurance. What will they want next, thumb print, strip search, dna sample.??

 
 
Comment by Chip
2009-08-15 10:11:25

CDDs (and other variations of Community Development District bonds): does anyone here have any experience with these, or know first hand of anyone who has been screwed by buying into a neighborhood covered by them?

My wife and I saw a CDD neighborhood in the Jacksonville area that we like, but as I read more about it, it looks like the potential liability is almost unlimited and that for the amenities portion there is no say-so at all by the residents over the costs or the portion of overall assessments that is applied to amenities versus infrastructure.

Is this a housing bubble-related phenomenon that likely will go away? I like the boulevards and green spaces and conservations, but can’t afford to see my taxes increase at a rate greater than non-CDD residents endure.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-08-15 10:16:39

I hope you guys are looking. The tax credit expires November 30. :)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 10:26:31

What makes you think it won’t be renewed or expanded? (Old government programs never die — they just change names or form.)

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-15 14:15:36

Yep. It wasn’t that long ago (maybe 3 weeks?) that some of our esteemed members of congress were calling for an expansion of the credit to $15,000 and making it available to everyone.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-15 16:00:15

Think I’ll wait for the $30K version in 2011…

The $8K version is peanuts relative to housing prices in my area. You can save more than $8K just by waiting a couple of extra months.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 17:06:11

LOL

I’ll just wait for the $60K version in 2012. :-D

I love this board!!!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 10:25:04

There is a fantastic article in today’s WSJ on the “New American Dream.” Anyone who can afford a copy should go out and buy a dead tree edition of the paper, and save it to show your grandchildren some day. (Note to self: Hide article from wifey before it gets recycled…)

I post a snippet below, but there is much, much more to this article (and a forthcoming book!). Kudos to Professor Sugrue for telling the real story when porcine beautification is so much more politically attractive.

* The Wall Street Journal
* LIFE & STYLE
* AUGUST 15, 2009, 11:15 A.M. ET

The New American Dream: Renting

It’s time to accept that home ownership is not a realistic goal for many people and to curtail the enormous government programs fueling this ambition.

By THOMAS J. SUGRUE

Atlanta represents the current housing crisis in microcosm. Since the second quarter of 2006, housing values across the United States have fallen by one third. Over a million homes were lost to foreclosure nationwide in 2008, as homeowners struggled to meet payments. The number of foreclosures reached an all-time record last month—when owners of one in every 355 houses in the country received default or auction notices or were seized by creditors. The collapse in confidence in securitized, high-risk mortgages has also devastated some of the nation’s largest banks and lenders. The home financing giant Fannie Mae alone held an estimated $230 billion in toxic assets. Even if there are signs of hope on the horizon (home prices ticked upward by 0.5% in May and new housing starts rose in June), analysts like Yale’s Robert Shiller expect that housing prices will remain level for the next five years. Many economists, like the Wharton School’s Joseph Gyourko, are beginning to make the case that public policies should encourage renting, or at least put it on a level playing field with home ownership. A June 2009 survey commissioned by the National Foundation for Credit Counseling, found a deep-seated pessimism about home ownership, suggesting that even if renting doesn’t yet have cachet, it’s the only choice left for those who have been burned by the housing market. One third of respondents don’t believe that they will ever be able to own a home. And 42% of those who once purchased a home, but don’t own one now, believe that they’ll never own one again.

—Thomas J. Sugrue is Kahn professor of history and sociology at the University of Pennsylvania. He is writing a history of real estate in modern America.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-08-15 13:57:07

All you need to own a home profitably (or comparably to renting) is a steady job (or a normal economic climate where you can sell in a reasonably short amount of time), the demonstrated ability to save money, and live in an area where the prices aren’t absurd compared to renting.

Oh, forget I spoke up.
;)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 13:58:21

“Many economists, like the Wharton School’s Joseph Gyourko, are beginning to make the case that public policies should encourage renting, or at least put it on a level playing field with home ownership.”

Where does the Obamanomics Brain Trust stand regarding the level-playing-field principle? So far, all the visible evidence suggests they prefer tilting the playing field towards big FIRE-sector campaign contributors, but perhaps the old notion of America as the Land of Equal Opportunity for Everyone will eventually change their minds?

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-15 10:35:24

As mentioned a day ago, my REIC-thinking aligned deluded bro in Hawaii called. I took the first opportunity to deliver to him the hard truth about the RE and basic market concepts like supply/demand, price action, etc.

His response was much like a robotic recording of a RealTard. Spewing senseless unquantifiable and unverifiable platitudes. I took the bait and sliced and diced each of these lies (housing always goes up, housing is an investment, etc). After 40 minutes, he still didn’t grasp until he went on a tirade about how “new houses are getting built with sticker prices of 800k-1000k. My response to that was “find a buyer at that price”.

Silence

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 03:11:04

Though he probably wouldn’t agree, your brother is lucky to have you, exeter! :)

 
 
Comment by AztoORtoCOtoOR
2009-08-15 13:48:54

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/13/real_estate/july_foreclosures/index.htm

My Clarke Griswold moment (when he finally gets to Wally World and has tears of joy) when I read this article.
Patience is paying off here in Oregon as we have just entered the top 10 list of forclosure states. Very encouraging for this renter of the past 3 years.

Foreclosure plague: No cure yet
The housing market is still sick, with a record number of foreclosure filings posted in July.

By Les Christie, CNNMoney.com staff writer

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — The foreclosure plague continued to devastate last month.

There were more than 360,000 properties with foreclosure filings — including default notices, scheduled auctions and bank repossessions — an increase of 7% from June and 32% from July 2008, according to RealtyTrac, an online marketer of foreclosed homes. In fact, one in every 355 U.S. homes had at least one filing during July.

“July marks the third time in the last five months where we’ve seen a new record set for foreclosure activity,” said James J. Saccacio, chief executive officer of RealtyTrac. “Despite continued efforts by the federal government and state governments to patch together a safety net for distressed homeowners, we’re seeing significant growth in both the initial notices of default and in the bank repossessions.”

The jump occurred as several foreclosure moratoriums phased out. They were initiated by many states to give the administration’s foreclosure-prevention efforts time to work. But for many help did not come: The modification and refinancing programs have met with less success than hoped.

“It’s starting to reach more and more people, but we have to do better and make sure the program reaches the millions of folks we intended it to reach,” said Jared Bernstein, an economics adviser to vice president Biden.

The picture would be even worse, however, without the programs.

“Each of these programs nips away at the problem of excess supply,” said Doug Duncan, cheif economist for Fannie Mae, “and fights against declining prices. … The hope is that the aggregated programs will result in less loss than would happen in the free market.”

Out of their homes
RealtyTrac statistics revealed that more than 87,000 properties were repossessed by lenders, effectively sending many families out of their homes. There have been a total of 464,058 repossessions — or REOs in industry parlance — so far this year (through the end of July).

“We’re seeing more option ARM resets, triggering defaults and more prime loans, which are failing due to job losses,” said RealtyTrac spokesman Rick Sharga.

That is resulting in more filings on higher priced homes, for two reasons: 1. option ARMs were typically used for more expensive properties; 2. borrowers using prime loans generally had better credit and were able to afford more expensive houses.

Best and worst
The worst hit areas continue to be in the “sand states,” with California posting the highest number of total filings, 108,104, and Nevada posting the highest rate of foreclosure at one for every 56 homes.

The other hardest hit states are Arizona, at one filing for every 135 homes, and Florida, at one for every 154. Las Vegas, with one for every 47 homes, had the highest rate among metro areas. That’s Sin City’s 31st consecutive month topping the list.

These were bubble states, where home prices soared and banks financed mortgages for anyone who could fog a mirror.

“We’re seeing the highest levels of foreclosures in the markets that had the highest appreciation [during the boom] and the worst lending practices,” said Sharga.

First Published: August 13, 2009: 3:41 AM ET

Comment by AztoORtoCOtoOR
2009-08-15 15:57:11

My apologies if the formatting is off, but wanted to add the top 10 list. Hard to belive I have lived in half of the states on the top 10 list and, fortunately, never lost money on a house. I have “owned” 4 of them. I am getting very encouraged seeing the nicer homes in Washington county (west of portland area) not selling while the prices tumble down. A couple of more years and I may be ready to buy. I am honestly getting a bit tired of renting since the house doesn’t meet my desires for a large garage, but not so tired to be the next knife catcher here.

10 Worst hit states
Where the foreclosure rates are the highest
Rank State Rate (One for every x households) Total number
1 Nevada 56 19,535
2 California 123 108,104
3 Arizona 135 19,694
4 Florida 154 56,486
5 Utah 350 3,694
6 Idaho 253 2,491
7 Georgia 356 11,136
8 Illinois 361 14,524
9 Colorado 388 5,488
10 Oregon 446 3,605

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 18:06:50

Dear “multistate”….are the rates for Utah and Idhao switched?

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 18:15:27

10 Worst hit states:

#2 California = 108,104

All the rest x9 = 136,653

Where the heck is Texas when we need them? ;-)

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 14:26:19

From behind “The O.C.” ;-)

Oh Lordy,… :-) (Hwy, sits down & ponders the wealth of the Catholic Church…)

“You know financial times are getting rough when even those preaching the prosperity gospel take a hit.”

“Trinity inspires great passions. Supporters feel that it is doing God’s work on Earth - spreading hope, sharing the gospel and saving souls. Critics, meanwhile, accuse the organization of fleecing its flock.”

“But that’s for you guys to decide. We’re just here to look at the numbers. Why do we care? Because Trinity has nonprofit status from Uncle Sam. And as such, it does not pay taxes on its revenues of nearly $200 million.”

Trinity Broadcasting, in tightening times, pays family members more than $1 million:

ALL IN THE FAMILY

The crown for most highly-paid exec of a religious nonprofit in America came to rest again on the head of Trinity’s president, Paul F. Crouch Sr., according to nonprofit watchdog Charity Navigator’s 2009 CEO Compensation Study.

* Paul Sr. made $419,500 - same as the year before.
* Wife Jan (above right) - Trinity’s vice president - earned the same $361,000 as the year before as well.
* But son Paul (right), also a vice president, saw his compensation jump 24 percent, to $161,792.

TBN was tsk-tsked by Charity Navigator for having so many relatives on the payroll - whose combined compensation totals more than $1.2 million. To wit:

* Jan’s nephew, John B. Casoria, is Trinity’s assistant secretary and lawyer. His law firm was one of Trinity’s five highest-paid independent contractors, earning $162,236.
* Paul Senior’s sister, Ruth Brown, is Trinity’s secretary/treasurer. She earned $95,680.
* Jan’s sister, Dorothy B. Casoria, is Trinity’s station manager. She earned $38,529.
* Another Crouch child, Matthew W. Crouch, is Trinity’s assistant vice president. No pay reported. But Crouch is chairman and CEO of the Christian film production company Gener8Xion Entertainment, which has produced films with Trinity.

“We haven’t heard back from Trinity on all of this.( After we wrote about Trinity’s finances last year, lawyer Casoria vowed that Trinity would no longer speak to The Orange County Register, and he seems to be keeping assets2gifhis word.)” :-)

Comment by polly
2009-08-15 16:25:04

You can access information about most charities on line at http://www.guidestar.org. You have to sign up, but low volume access is free. Check out your alma mater. Or the last organization that called you up during dinner. It is very enlightening.

“Churches” (term-of-art for religious organizations with congregations, clergy, etc.) do not have to file, but some choose to.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-15 17:36:39

As explained above, there is nothing intrinsically more noble about “not-for-profit” corporations compared to their “for-profit” counterparts. Both embody the same basic conflicts of interest.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 15:22:05

test

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 15:32:25

You fail with flying colors. :-D

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 16:59:17

I thought I thaw a puddytat!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 17:01:19

I was just ribbin’ you. ;-)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 15:46:29

My oh my, there sure are a lot of Californians living rent-free these days. I never imagined so many households would discover the true value of ownership: Paying your mortgage is optional.

Los Angeles Times | BUSINESS
MORTGAGES
California’s default rate soars to 9.5%

Delinquencies in June are up sharply from a year ago, when 6% of borrowers were behind on their loans.

By Peter Y. Hong
July 31, 2009

About 1 in 10 Californians with a home loan is now in default, and there’s growing evidence that the mortgage meltdown is spreading to commercial real estate.

The home mortgage delinquency rate — the percentage of borrowers who have missed several payments and are in the first stage of foreclosure — climbed in June to 9.5% in California and 9.9% in Los Angeles County, according to First American CoreLogic.

The staggering number of home mortgage defaults probably will lead to large numbers of foreclosures through at least this year, housing experts say.

It’s probably a given we’ll see a high number of foreclosures in the next couple of quarters due to the level of defaults plus the recession and jobs lost. There’s plenty more pain to come,” said Andrew LePage, an analyst for real estate research firm MDA DataQuick of San Diego.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-15 16:12:19

Wow, those numbers are pretty staggering. One in ten…

Then again, one in ten may only be a good start! :-)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 16:16:31

That’s gonna rise. The level of unaffordability in California at the tail-end of the bubble was off the charts.

As we have noted here ad nauseam, unless you have income to back up that mortgage payment, you’re going nowhere!

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 17:13:51

“…unless you have income to back up that mortgage payment,”

I realize that 85+% only require an “income” …the other 14.9% might require: “x2 incomes”

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 21:10:23

I have to hand it to the lenders for so generously allowing many Californians to live for month after month as payment-free owner-occupants. I guess the lenders never realized that their payment-option ARMs actually provided the unwritten option to pay $0?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 15:52:40

The problems with securitized commercial mortgages sound extremely similar to the problems with securitized residential mortgages. Meanwhile, the Fed and Treasury are mulling over options for repriming the mortgage securitization sump pump, before even properly identifying exactly what resulted in the collapse of the US real estate finance system.

* The Wall Street Journal
* REAL ESTATE
* AUGUST 15, 2009

Hotels Deliver Some ‘Jingle Mail’

By KRIS HUDSON

‘Jingle mail” isn’t just for homeowners anymore. From San Diego to Dearborn, Mich., an increasing number of hotel owners in the U.S. market are simply walking away from money-losing properties and forfeiting them to lenders.

The rise in hotel forfeitures is the product of the worst hotel market since the early 1990s, with revenue declining by double-digit percentages. That has pushed the value of many hotels to less than the balance on their mortgages. Just like homeowners who mail their house keys back to the bank — so-called jingle mail — hotel owners see no hope in renegotiating their loans.
[ InterContinental Montelucia Resort & Spa near Phoenix] InterContinental Hotels Group

Eurohypo is foreclosing on the InterContinental Montelucia Resort & Spa near Phoenix.

Distressed noncasino hotel loans now cover more than 1,000 properties with a cumulative loan value of $16.8 billion, according to Real Capital Analytics, a real-estate research company. That figure encompasses delinquencies, foreclosures, bankruptcies and restructurings of securitized mortgages in addition to loans from banks and other institutions.

Among them are a Mondrian boutique hotel in Scottsdale, Ariz.; a St. Regis resort in Dana Point, Calif.; the InterContinental Montelucia Resort & Spa in Scottsdale, and a Hyatt Regency in Dearborn — each of which is either in foreclosure or has stopped making payments on its debt. It includes the 680 hotels of the Extended Stay Inc. chain that filed for bankruptcy in June.

Delinquencies of loans on casinos that have hotels adds 31 properties and $8.6 billion in distressed loans to the mix.

One major factor in the foreclosures: Many hotel loans are difficult to restructure because they were packaged into commercial mortgage-backed securities, or CMBS, which combine hundreds of property payments into one single bond. With scores of investors owning those bonds, it is extremely hard to cut a new deal to keep the hotel in owners’ hands.

There is no one person or two people that can really represent the interests of the borrowers and strike a deal,” said Art Buser, chief executive of Sunstone Hotel Investors Inc., which is forfeiting one hotel and has put lenders on notice that it might do so with others.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-15 18:09:03

The one Extended Stay motel we stayed at when our power was knocked out during a frigid winter’s ice storm had very, very bad mattresses. We tend to stay at Hampton Inn or Fairfield because the mattresses are always, always good. Disney World has the best mattresses of all. If I could steal anything from DW, it would be one of their king-sized mattress sets. Seriously.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 19:12:54

So, what’s the story at “La Costa” Resorts?

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 03:22:32

Good question.

They’ve been selling off many of their rooms as time shares — some convoluted “ownership” where you can live in your $1MM+ hotel room for 120 days per year or somesuch.

It looks like they’ve been hurting, but if you want to stay there, they are not offering any tempting discounts. You’d think filling up rooms, even at a discount, would be better than keeping them empty.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 16:03:58

Good things may come to those who sit on their hands while fools rush in to catch falling knives. This NC Times article reveals that
18,900 North County homeowners have recently defaulted on their mortgages without their lenders beginning the foreclosure process, while an additional 8,600 homes are already in the foreclosure process.

So it sounds like something like 27,500 homes are in foreclosure pipeline, in North San Diego County alone. Assuming these homes have on average dropped by thirty percent in value, and enjoyed a median peak bubble valuation of $500,000 (a conservative figure, mind you), they represent an aggregate loss of paper home equity wealth on the order of 0.30*$500,000*27,500 = $4,125,000,000. Of course, this is a minuscule share of the aggregate paper home equity losses for all of California.

North County Times
Home / Business
HOUSING: Median house price up again

But foreclosures loom ever larger, threatening to undercut prices

CHRIS BAGLEY - cbagley@nctimes.com
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:05 pm

Assuming that homes continue to sell at the current pace and that no additional homes come onto the market, the homes now listed in North County would all be sold in 3.4 months. That figure, known as “inventory,” is down sharply from more than 15 months in September.

Independent analysts, meanwhile, say the inventory figure means less than it did a year or two ago because of the large and growing number of homes threatened by foreclosure.

Nearly 8 percent of San Diego County mortgage borrowers are at least 90 days behind on payments, and thus in imminent danger of foreclosure, according to First American CoreLogic, a mortgage research firm.

That figure, along with ZIP code-level data from ForeclosureRadar.com, another research firm, suggest that nearly 18,900 North County homeowners have defaulted on their mortgages without their lenders beginning the foreclosure process. An additional 8,600 homes are in the foreclosure process, while banks have seized just 1,300 homes to complete the foreclosure process, according to ForeclosureRadar.com.

In other words, the bank-owned homes now on the market may be the tip of an iceberg.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 19:10:40

(Hwy thinks he’s going to have a hard time getting a camping spot in South Carlsbad…even in the fall) ;-(

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-15 20:37:23

I suspect lots of folks in Carlsbad and S.Ca will be competing.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 03:25:21

Hwy,

Try Cardiff. I hear there are plenty of empty spots, especially during the week.

———————–

BTW, I think the “foreclosure tsunami” is being held back because of all the lenders who are not even issuing NODs. We are hearing all kinds of stories about people who haven’t paid for an extended period of time, but have yet to receive a NOD.

Certainly, some of this is the result of strong-arming lenders into giving them loan mods (most want principal reductions), but still…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 07:08:28

Hi CA Renter!

Any thoughts on where this is headed? I am having a hard time seeing how the potential foreclosure tsunami might play out, thanks to all the green shoots that are blocking my view…

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Comment by CA renter
2009-08-17 00:25:05

Sorry to reply so late, PB (if you even see this). Will try to respond in a newer thread.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 16:52:10

Even in an economic downturn, preachers in the “prosperity gospel” movement are drawing sizable, adoring audiences. Their message — that if you have sufficient faith in God and the Bible and donate generously, God will multiply your offerings a hundredfold — is reassuring to many in hard times.

The preachers barely acknowledged the recession, though they did say it was no excuse to curtail giving. “Fear will make you stingy,” Mr. Copeland said.

But the offering buckets came up emptier than in some previous years, said those who have attended before.

Many in this flock do not trust banks, the news media or Washington, where the Senate Finance Committee is investigating whether the Copelands and other prosperity evangelists used donations to enrich themselves and abused their tax-exempt status. But they trust the Copelands, the movement’s current patriarch and matriarch, who seem to embody prosperity with their robust health and abundance of children and grandchildren who have followed them into the ministry.

There’s never been a better time to sheer the sheeple.

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHHHHH!!!

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 17:07:38

For sheer enjoyment you should shear the sheeple with Olygal’s new/used sheep shears. Followed by a glass of single-malt “Sheep Dip”. http://www.scotchwhisky.net/pure/sheep_dip.htm

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 18:05:27

ooooooooh!!! OOOOooooh!!! OOOOOOOOH!!!

I need a glass of that (or seven.)

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-15 18:12:10

BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic*

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-08-15 17:22:17

“…and other prosperity evangelists used donations to enrich themselves and abused their tax-exempt status.”

Marvin the Martian: “you make me veeeerrrryyyy angry!”
Jesus:

“…Jesus first called them hypocrites, and then asked one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying Caesar’s tax. One of them showed him a Roman coin, and he asked them whose name and inscription were on it. They answered, “Caesar’s,” and he responded “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and give to God what is God’s.”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 17:47:43

Every dollar a preacher spends sniffing cocaine is one less dollar that the religious sheeple have to terrorize the masses!

I wanna see some serious tears among the believers. It’s all Sweet Baby Jeebus’s doing, baby! It has nothing to do with causality and economic structures.

Believe in Jeebus, darling, beam me up Jeebus! Where is my Jeebus when I need him?

LOL

 
 
 
Comment by awiating wipeout
2009-08-15 18:12:31

Los Angeles Unified School District wants to raise property taxes $100 per $100,000, and claims a bond law for building new schools might protect them from prop 13 denial. ABC News had a segment today. Talk about adding to the avalanche of foreclosures. A lot of my former co-workers are hanging on by a thread in L A.

IIRC, their goal was 160 new schools for the 3rd worlders. Most don’t belong here, but their mother squated on U.S. soil.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-08-15 18:17:27

F00ked six ways from Sunday with a texturized spiked metal dild0.

But that’s the new reality. What can one do, huh?

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-15 18:58:38

Whats so wrong about buying trailers to stuff them into…why waste money on a real school?

Plus it would Help American industry, the mobile home business is in a deep depression….

—————————————-
their goal was 160 new schools for the 3rd worlders

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 03:28:45

Many of LAUSD’s schools consist of a substantial number of “temporary” classrooms that were installed 30 or more years ago…

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-08-16 04:19:16

Why do they need to build more schools with enrollment steadily declining?

In much of the modern world you could build 160 new schools for the cost of LAUSD’s Belmont ($300M for a 2500 seat high school).

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 21:32:34

Though the housing bubble has deeper historic roots, the beginning of Clinton’s first term is not a bad first approximation to the point when the housing mania’s seeds were first planted. Green shoots of an incipient mania sprouted shortly thereafter. I can hardly wait until when Hitlary gets her turn in the WH, so we can relive the experience all over again.

* WALL STREET JOURNAL
* OPINION
* OCTOBER 3, 2008

How Government Stoked the Mania

Housing prices would never have risen so high without multiple Washington mistakes.

By RUSSELL ROBERTS

Many believe that wild greed and market failure led us into this sorry mess. According to that narrative, investors in search of higher yields bought novel securities that bundled loans made to high-risk borrowers. Banks issued these loans because they could sell them to hungry investors. It was a giant Ponzi scheme that only worked as long as housing prices were on the rise. But housing prices were the result of a speculative mania. Once the bubble burst, too many borrowers had negative equity, and the system collapsed.
[How the Government Stoked the Mania] David Klein

Part of this story is true. The fall in housing prices did lead to a sudden increase in defaults that reduced the value of mortgage-backed securities. What’s missing is the role politicians and policy makers played in creating artificially high housing prices, and artificially reducing the danger of extremely risky assets.

Beginning in 1992, Congress pushed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to increase their purchases of mortgages going to low and moderate income borrowers. For 1996, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) gave Fannie and Freddie an explicit target — 42% of their mortgage financing had to go to borrowers with income below the median in their area. The target increased to 50% in 2000 and 52% in 2005.

Guess who gets the credit for “predatory subprime lending” to minorities? HUD gets the credit!!!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 21:41:33

Recession is bad for the US birth rate (and presumably for whatever activity accounts for changes in the birth rate as well…).

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 21:45:26

NBC Philadelphia
politics
Recession Ends Baby Boom
Birthrate drops for the first time in the last 10 years
Updated 4:05 PM EDT, Fri, Aug 7, 2009

For the first time in over a decade, the U.S. birth rate has dropped and some industry analysts are blaming the recession.

At the start of the economic downturn in December 2007, the U.S. had broken a 50-year-old record high for births set during the baby boom, but since then the number has declined, a full 2% last year. The National Center for Health Statistics reports that 4,247,000 babies were born in the U.S. in 2008, down roughly 68,000 from the year before.

Births were down across the country in all but 10 states, most of which were in the northern belt, where the recession was felt the least. California and Florida, two states that were hit the hardest by the housing crisis, saw the steepest decline.

The birth rate has historically risen and fallen with the economy, with record lows recorded during the Great Depression in the 1930’s and the Arab oil embargo of the 1970’s.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 21:49:42

Serial bottom callers are at it again. Could someone please fill in Rex to some of our recent posts so the death of green shoots does not dash his irrationally exuberant hopes into the wicked and expedient stones?

Economic Preview

Aug 16, 2009, 12:01 a.m. EST
Housing hits a bottom

Housing starts and sales expected to rise modestly in July

By Rex Nutting, MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Housing, which led the economy into recession, may be one of the forces that helps to pull it out of the ditch.

After 14 quarters of declining investment in homes averaging one percentage point of GDP per quarter, residential investments could actually add to the nation’s gross domestic product in the third quarter, economists say.

No one expects a renewed housing boom. But at least sales and construction spending aren’t falling any more.

Home builders are gradually becoming more hopeful, even though surveys show most builders are still very discouraged. The builders’ housing market index has risen in four of the past five months.

Housing starts have increased in four of the past five months after tumbling to a postwar record low. Building permits for single-family homes have risen at a 109% annual rate over the past three months.

Sales of new single-family homes have risen three months in a row after falling to a record low in March.

Sales of existing homes have risen four of the past five months, supporting by a government subsidy for first-time buyers and by sales of foreclosed homes.

Three of these key housing indicators will be released in the coming week, with the fourth arriving a week later. Economists surveyed by MarketWatch expect all four to continue to rise modestly.

“Home sales and construction are still at low levels, but evidence is growing that they are past their lows and beginning to rebound,” wrote economists for Moody’s Economy.com. “Most influences on housing demand are still negative, but with the recession winding down it has become increasingly difficult to sustain the kind of weakness witnessed over the past couple of years.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 22:59:31

Why do so many morons confuse the obvious short-term impacts of government demand stimulus (e.g. $8K 1st-time buyer credit) and supply constriction (e.g. foreclosure moratoriums) with a long-term housing market bottom. You’d think these Wall Street savvy doofusses would know a dead cat bounce when they see one, but I guess not…

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-16 03:34:46

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Housing, which led the economy into recession, may be one of the forces that helps to pull it out of the ditch.
———————–

One of the things I find most irritating is the constant claim that “housing” led the economy into the recession.

It was DEBT that caused the recession. Rising housing prices were the **symptom** of the debt disease.

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 22:49:27

omega-sloth sleep surfin

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 22:53:06

Who’d of thunk the Research Triangle housing market would sink this deep underwater?

Friday, August 14, 2009, 1:05pm EDT

Report finds 1 in 5 Triangle mortgages underwater

Triangle Business Journal - by Lee Weisbecker Triangle Business Journal

About one in every five Triangle home mortgages examined by a California-based real estate analytics firm were “underwater” as of June 30 – a ratio better than both the state and national averages.

When a mortgage is underwater or in a negative-equity position, the borrower owes more on the loan than the home is worth. A high percentage of “upside-down” mortgages in a community is thought to correlate to higher home-foreclosure rates.

The report from Santa Ana-based First American CoreLogic found that 19.8 percent of all mortgaged properties in the Raleigh-Cary metropolitan area and 21.2 percent in the Durham-Chapel Hill area were underwater on June 30.

More underwater mortgage news:

* Arizona’s ‘underwater’ mortgage level among nation’s highest [10/31/2008]

* Report: Twenty-six percent of Houston-area mortgages underwater [08/14/2009]

* Report: 40% of Columbus-area mortgages underwater [08/14/2009]

* Cincy MSA: 37% of mortgages underwater [08/14/2009]

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 23:01:39

“…examined by a California-based real estate analytics firm…”

Ooo- A ‘California-based’ one! They’d be the experts…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 23:17:12

They certainly have one of the better views of the situation, which is apparently pretty hard to see from inside government buildings in Washington, DC.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 22:55:00

So much housing bust news, so little time…

Friday, August 14, 2009, 11:24am CDT
Report: Twenty-six percent of Houston-area mortgages underwater
Houston Business Journal

* Orlando February home values fall 21%
* Nashville home prices falling faster
* Duke City home prices dip 2.4 percent
* D-FW apartment sector faces second-highest volume of maturing loans in the U.S.
* May foreclosure rates up in Cincy metro

More than a quarter of all mortgaged properties in the Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown are in negative equity, according to new data from First American CoreLogic.

Negative equity means the borrower owes more on their mortgage than the home is worth.

The Santa Ana, Calif.-based real estate information company says 239,912 mortgaged properties in the Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown area, or 26.15 percent, were in negative equity as of June 30, 2009, while 310,715 mortgages, or 33.86 percent, were in a near-negative or negative equity situation. The total value of property at risk of default in the area was estimated at more than $34 billion.

In Texas, 777,000 mortgages were in negative equity, putting the state fourth in terms of the number of negative equity mortgages. California led with 2.9 million mortgages underwater, followed by Florida with 2.3 million and Ohio with 862,000.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 22:56:15

Friday, August 14, 2009, 11:51am EDT
Report: 40% of Columbus-area mortgages underwater
Business First of Columbus

New data from a real estate research company indicate two of every five households in the Columbus area owe more on mortgages than their houses are worth.

Santa Ana, Calif.-based First American CoreLogic said it found that 160,216, or 40 percent, of all properties with a mortgage in the Columbus area were in negative equity, or “underwater,” as of June. An additional 28,000 mortgages are nearing the point of negative equity.

That means property in the region valued at $24.3 billion is at risk of default because homes with underwater mortgages are unlikely to sell at a profit and are likely to have refinancing troubles, First American said.

Nationally, more than 15.2 million mortgages, or nearly a third of all mortgaged properties, are underwater, while the percentage of homes in or near negative equity climbs to 38 percent. The share of underwater mortgages, however, is down slightly from the end of the first quarter and reflects a recent stabilization of housing prices, First American said.

According to the latest data, Ohio is one of the five states with the highest number of negative-equity mortgages at 862,000. The worst states for underwater mortgages, California and Florida, accounted for more than one in three negative equity loans nationwide.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 23:04:59

San Francisco Chronicle
Real Estate Mailbag
- Benny L. Kass

Should I walk away from underwater property?

Saturday, August 15, 2009

Q: My wife and I purchased a four-unit rental property for $935,000 in 2006 and put 10 percent down. The lender split our loan into 80/20 and we have a loan balance of $650,000 and a HELOC balance of $192,000. We have an adjustable-rate first mortgage and our monthly payment increases annually. It’s now getting to a point where we can’t pay any more.

Currently, the property value is $625,000, so we pretty much are upside down. The bank doesn’t want to adjust our loan because it is a rental property, and it won’t refinance.

We also have a problem with a tenant who could not pay rent because she lost her job, and it is hard to find tenants because of the economic downturn. I would like your honest advice on what I should do. Should I just walk away?

A: It will not be a consolation to you, but I am receiving questions from many, many readers with similar issues.

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. The federal government and many state governments have started implementing plans and programs to assist people who are in your situation, but there still remains a lot of confusion - and indeed distrust - of many of these operations. More important, many lenders are unwilling to work with people whose properties are underwater.

There are a number of options available - but only you and your wife can make the final decision. You can file for bankruptcy relief, but you must consult a bankruptcy attorney to determine what the consequences will be.

You can try a short sale. Contact a real estate agent to see whether there is any market for your property. Obviously, your lenders will have to approve, and this can take some time.

You can ask the bank if it will take the property back. This is called a deed in lieu of foreclosure. Or you can just walk away from the property, and let the bank foreclose. However, once again, you have to determine the consequences.

Many states allow lenders to go after their borrowers for a deficiency judgment. Let’s take this example: You owe a total of $842,000 on both loans. If the bank sells the property for only $600,000, that leaves a balance owing of $242,000.

This is known as a deficiency. You have to talk with a local attorney to see if your state law permits - or prohibits - lenders from seeking that additional money from you.

I know you have already talked with your lender, and that’s the first thing anyone should do. But don’t talk to a local bank representative; it’s difficult to find a responsible person at most lenders, but make the effort to talk with someone as high in the chain of command as possible.

…difficult (bwa ha) to find (bwa ha ha ha ) a responsible (bwa hahahaha ) person at most (bwa hahahahaha ) lenders… (BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!)

This industry has self-destructed, and now they need more or your tax dollars so they can fook themselves and the rest of America some more!!!

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 23:34:49

I blame ‘casual Friday’

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 05:55:25

My doubts about very many responsible people working at lenders for the past decade inspired that post…

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 23:07:06

Holy Toledo — 44% underwater?

Toledo area’s home equity is sinking: Underwater rate put at 44%
Sat. August 15, 2009; Posted: 09:06 PM

Aug 15, 2009 (The Blade - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) —

A national real estate data firm is estimating that through June, 44 percent of metro Toledo residential properties with a mortgage
are “underwater” — that is, the borrower owes more on the mortgage than the home is worth.

First American CoreLogic, of Santa Ana, Calif., said the 61,155 properties that it believes are in a negative equity
position have a total property value of $7.2 billion.

In addition, another 8,120 properties were in a near-negative equity position; that is, they are within 5 percent of being underwater, CoreLogic said. That means, according to the firm’s estimates, that nearly half of home-owners either owe more than their homes are worth or are close to owing more.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 23:13:13

Here is the First American Core Logic Report on the distribution of negative equity across the American mortgage landscape.

IT’S UGLY, FOLKS — UGLIER THAN SHREK’S GRANDMA, IN FACT!!!

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 23:43:02

inflate or die
the experiment continues
can not not doing what we shoulda done last time
fix it this time?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-15 23:15:53

I just posted a link to the First American Core Logic report everyone is discussing. In case it doesn’t show up soon, here is a snippet:

More than 15.2 million U.S. mortgages, or 32.2 percent of all mortgaged properties, were in negative equity position as of June 30, 2009 according to newly released data from First American CoreLogic.

June’s negative equity share was slightly lower than the 32.5 percent as of the end of March 2009 and it reflects the recent flattening of monthly home price changes. As of June 2009, there were an additional 2.5 million mortgaged properties that were approaching negative equity. Negative equity and near negative equity mortgages combined account for nearly 38 percent of all residential properties with a mortgage nationwide.

Deutsche Bank is predicting the percentage of negative equity mortgages will eventually exceed 50 percent. 38 percent is not far away from that already…

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-15 23:49:45

“Deutsche Bank is predicting…”

I’m not saying they’re wrong–I think they’re right–But aren’t these the same guys who made the crappy loans? Suddenly they have a clear view of the situation! Hmmm…

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-08-16 03:05:46

Beevis and Butthead would have said
heh-heh- hehheh you said Deutsche.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 05:52:41

A German pronounces Deutsche something like what one might spell as “doytscha” in English.

Something about your post suggests you might not realize that…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by DennisN
2009-08-16 09:13:25

Dunkel ist das Leben, is der Tod! :(

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 06:06:12

This writer has nicely cataloged “Seven Deadly Sins” of government distorting housing market policy.

OPINION

The Seven State Regulations of Markets That Made the Crisis Possible—And What Should Be Done about Them

by Vincent Bénard

Below are the top seven state interventions and regulations that broke our market-based defences against failures and thus brought us the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. The first three interventions can be branded as elements of a “system of subsidies” to banks and financial institutions, aimed at artificially lowering the cost of financial resources to banks. They exist worldwide. The four others are specific to the real estate and mortgage markets, and some are specific to the USA.

Subsidies to the Banking System

Federal Reserve manipulation of interest rates

Tax codes that favour over-leveraged companies (especially financial institutions)

Basel I and II inflexible capital requirements

Distortions in Mortgage and Real Estate Markets

Special advantages granted to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

Special constraints placed on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

Community Reinvestment Act

Smart Growth Policies and similar land-use regulatory restrictions

Conclusion: Restore Markets!

Markets are imperfect because human beings are. All the state interventions in free market mechanisms described above were supposed to bring corrections to unavoidable market imperfections. They were supposed to provide us with safer banks, better access to consumer goods for the poor, better-performing companies and economies, better use of space, and better social side effects. None of the intended goals of these interventions have been achieved. But by destroying the “natural” defences of markets against failure, they wrought havoc on the world economy.

It’s time for politicians to ask themselves why state regulations of land, finance and money failed so miserably, and if we should not replace them with a few market-based mechanisms that would be more efficient in achieving their stated goals.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 06:26:35

If lenders and borrowers agree to a lease-back agreement that works for both of them, that is their business. I have to side with the lenders’ view that the government should not interfere with private contracts by forcing them to do this. Besides the questionable legality of taking away a lender’s private property rights, such a measure may have the unintended and undesirable consequence of limiting the future flow of private funds into the mortgage market.

I realize CEPR’s Dean Baker recently bought a house, and is now advocating this measure to support home prices, but lenders have rights, too.

The other thing I disagree with is the idea of injecting tax dollars into bridging the gap between what owners can afford to pay and what lenders are willing to charge as rent. If the current owner cannot fulfill his side of the contract, why should that be anyone else’s problem besides that of the lender on the other side of the contract? In particular, why should anyone who decided to rent a home or live in lower quality housing have to pony up to enable other households to enjoy relatively luxurious housing?

Nation’s Housing
From owner to tenant and back to owner again
KENNETH HARNEY
2:00 a.m. August 16, 2009

WASHINGTON — Here are two questions getting a lot of attention on Capitol Hill and from the Obama administration: When homeowners lose their houses to foreclosure, should they be able to stay in the property, leasing it back at fair-market rent from the lender?

Should they also get an option to purchase the house from the bank at the end of the lease term, assuming they have the income to afford it?

Before leaving for their August break, Democrats and Republicans in the House took a rare, unanimous stand on both questions by passing the Neighborhood Preservation Act by voice vote. The bill was co-sponsored by Reps. Gary Miller, R-Diamond Bar, and Joe Donnelly, D-Ind.

The bill would remove legal impediments blocking federally regulated banks from entering into long-term leases — up to five years — with the former owners of foreclosed houses. It would also allow banks to negotiate option-to-purchase agreements permitting former owners to buy back their houses.

The idea, said Miller, is, “at no cost to the taxpayer,” to “reduce the number of houses coming into the housing inventory and preserve the physical condition of foreclosed properties,” which ultimately should help stabilize values in neighborhoods with large numbers of distressed sales and underwater real estate.

If the bill is approved by the Senate, participation by banks would be purely voluntary. But the legislation might encourage banks to calculate whether they would do better financially taking an immediate loss at foreclosure, or by collecting rents and then selling the property at a higher price in four or five years.

Though it was not opposed by banking lobbies, the bill quickly attracted critics. The Center for Economic and Policy Research, a think tank based in Washington, said a key flaw is to leave decisions about lease-backs solely to banks themselves.

“If Congress does want to give homeowners the option to stay in their homes as renters,” said the group, “it will be necessary to pass legislation that explicitly gives them this right.

Comment by CA renter
2009-08-17 00:48:24

But the legislation might encourage banks to calculate whether they would do better financially taking an immediate loss at foreclosure, or by collecting rents and then selling the property at a higher price in four or five years.
—————————-

There they go again with their assumptions…

Scary, isn’t it?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 06:30:21

“Common Sense” market timing? Heh heh heh…

Time to take profits from booming market Question
Question is, which stellar stock should be sold?

By James B. Stewart, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

2:00 a.m. August 16, 2009

This month, the Nasdaq topped 2,000, a milestone in itself, but also another selling threshold for Common Sense. The Nasdaq hasn’t been that high since Oct. 1, and at that level it was 58 percent above its March 9 low.

This means it’s time — past time, actually — to take some profits. The Common Sense system calls for selling at intervals of 25 percent gains in the Nasdaq, but there are no hard-and-fast rules. Even with the recent market pullback, we’re still in selling territory. The Common Sense goal is to sell higher and buy lower, not perfect market timing.

Anyone who followed my advice to buy stocks in March is sitting on some significant gains. As usual, this isn’t a prediction that the market is going to fall, simply a recognition that no market rises indefinitely without a correction and an accompanying buying opportunity. This is the second selling opportunity this year without an intervening correction.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 06:42:22

I find myself curiously humming a churchy tune my kids some times sing:

“The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
And the rains came ‘a tumbling down.”

Daily Finance
An AOL Money & Finance Site

The negative home equity nightmare: Housing won’t stabilize until 2011
James Cullen

Aug 11th 2009 at 3:00PM

Aggressive lending practices fueled the housing boom, and the availability of generous sums of mortgage and home equity money left borrowers with more debt and less equity than ever before. The Federal Reserve reported that home mortgage debt grew at a double-digit rate every year from 2002 to 2006. But as real estate markets across the country have seen price declines between 10 percent (Dallas) and 54 percent (Phoenix), an estimated 11 to 15 million households are now “underwater” on their mortgages, owing more than their house could be sold for today. This overhang, already being blamed for exacerbating the decline in residential real estate, likely won’t peak until 2011, according to a research note from Deutsche Bank obtained by DailyFinance.

Deutsche Bank says that nearly $6 trillion in home equity has been vaporized since the peak in housing prices, and any quick recovery would be dependent on repeating the same lending mistakes that led to the boom — an unlikely proposition. As housing prices continue to fall, the firm estimates that 25 million homeowners, or 48 percent of all mortgages, will eventually wind up being underwater.

The concentration of underwater borrowers is somewhat dependent on geography and the mortgage products that were used in the latter stages of the housing bubble. Deutsche Bank believes that about two-thirds of Alt-A and Subprime loans and almost 90 percent of Option ARM loans will be underwater in 2011. Option ARMs had higher initial balances relative to the home’s price (loan-to-value, or LTV), and had negative amortization features that made the principal balance grow for a set amount of time. Additionally, the use of alternative mortgages were more heavily favored in areas that had registered large gains in housing prices — the same areas that have since been hit hardest by the bursting of the bubble.

Deutsche Bank’s future pricing declines divide the worst housing markets into the “sand states” of Arizona, California, Florida, and Nevada, as well as states like Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Massachusetts and West Virginia that are struggling due to their manufacturing base. While the current list of areas where more than 50 percent of borrowers are underwater is dominated almost exclusively by the sand states, Deutsche Bank sees the number more than doubling to include parts of the aforementioned states in addition to places like Lousiana, Maryland, Oregon, and Utah. In other words, the “sand state” housing crisis is going nationwide.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 06:50:52

I thought the housing market had already bottomed out, but I keep reading these scary reports that prices will keep falling at least through some time in 2011. ME CONFUSED!

U.S. Home Prices to Fall Through 2011’s First Quarter (Update1)

By Dan Levy

July 7 (Bloomberg) — Home prices may fall in more than half of the largest U.S. cities through the first quarter of 2011 as unemployment and foreclosures rise, mortgage insurer PMI Group Inc. said.

Thirty of the 50 biggest metropolitan areas have at least a 75 percent chance of lower prices through March 31, 2011, Walnut Creek, California-based PMI said in a report today. The decline is likely to spread to “all regions of the nation” from California, Florida, Nevada and Arizona, the states most affected by the housing slump, PMI said.

The housing market has been hit by a demand shock of high unemployment and a supply shock of distressed foreclosure sales,” LaVaughn Henry, senior economist at PMI, the fourth- largest U.S. mortgage insurer, said in an interview.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 06:58:40

Try not to catch yourself a falling knife.

Real Estate Pro Articles
Underwater Mortgages Driving Rise in Bank Repo Homes

Nearly 50 percent of all residential mortgages in the U.S. will be
underwater by 2011 as house prices continue to drop, according to Deutsche Bank.

The bank explained that the continued drop in house prices has been
driving the continued increase in bank repo homes as borrowers walk away from their underwater mortgages.

In June, Deutsche Bank predicted that home prices will fall by 14 percent
in the first quarter of 2011 in at least 100 metro areas, bringing the
total home price decline to 41.7 percent.

The projected increase in the volume of underwater mortgages to about 48 percent by 2011 marks a staggering increase from the 26-percent share on March 31 this year.

Deutsche Bank also said that conforming mortgages which met Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae lending guidelines and which comprise most of the mortgages originated will be battered most by home price declines. Prime conforming mortgage loans comprise around 67 percent of all mortgages and usually are less risky than other types of loans because these are given to borrowers with high credit scores and complete and qualified financial documentation.

Of all conforming home loans, about 41 percent shall be underwater during the first 3 months of 2011, an increase from the 16 percent share in the first 3 months of 2009.

Borrowers who took out risky home loans during the boom years will also be hit hard in 2011 because they are suffering the biggest erosion in home value and in equity, according to Deutsche. Of all subprime mortgages, 69 percent will become underwater in 2011, a substantial increase from the 50-percent share in March.

Of all option adjustable-rate mortgages, 89 percent will become underwater in 2011, another substantial increase from the 77-percent share in March. Option ARMs allow borrowers to make very low payments during the first years of their loan terms.

Deutsche analysts Ying Shen and Karen Weaver made the projections despite indications of improvements in the housing market, as increases in home prices were reported in many areas of the country after 3 years of price declines. They said that the next wave of house price declines will affect prime mortgage borrowers the most.

According to the analysts, around 90 percent of all mortgages in Las Vegas and in other cities in California and Florida will be underwater by 2011 and the states that will suffer negative equity the most will be
California, Florida, Nevada, Arizona, Ohio, Illinois, Michigan,
Massachusetts, Wisconsin and West Virginia.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 07:05:57

Does anyone else sense a mighty struggle underway between the efforts of “green shoots” propagandists to perpetuate irrational exuberance, and the countervailing force of reality-based analysts like the Deutsche Bank folks who just released an eminently reasonable and even conservative prediction of continued US housing price declines into 2011 leaving 48 percent of US mortgages underwater?

Which will eventually prevail: The side of whimsical economically irrational fantasy, or that of ground-truthed rational economic reality?

Comment by tj
2009-08-16 10:53:08

C

i always appreciate the articles you post PB. thank you.

as to your question, the answer is obvious to me. reality will always win over happy talk and fantasy. in other words, prices will continue to fall.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-16 11:18:46

“…prices will continue to fall.”

Corollary: Denial will continue to prevail at the Fed.

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-08-17 01:08:20

One could also argue that the party who owns the printing press will prevail — at someone else’s expense, of course.

 
 
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