August 18, 2009

Bits Bucket For August 18, 2009

Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.




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445 Comments »

Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-18 03:46:45

So in conclusion, most here are socialists and some are commies. ;-)

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-18 04:49:07

Capitalist pig!

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-18 05:50:29

Where did all the libertarians go?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 06:35:05

library?

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-08-18 07:04:38

most here are socialists and some are commies

Dont say that, you get beat up for saying the word “socialist”. You must say, Instead of socialist, say loving, liberal, progressive unknowing of where the money is coming from other than to holler “rich people, rich people”..did I say that out loud? Did you not see the beat down I got? :)

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Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-18 08:31:28

I saw Ben’s beatdown and I saw exeter kick you while your down. I think you should respond to yesterdays accusation.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 09:33:34

Did you not see the beat down I got?

You didn’t look very beaten down to ME. I thought you gave as good as you got. But I have to confess that I’m still wrapping my head around the fact you’re black. You know how you start building a mental image of people? Well, I had visualized you as Hugh Jackson. And now…now you’re a black Hugh Jackson, I guess. Don’t be mad—Hugh Jackson is HOT.
Hahahah! This reminds me of my visual image I formed of Lost in Utarr, I had this image of a rangy professor-guy roaming around the hinterlands with a pith helmet, maybe wearing a jacket with leather patches on the sleeves, perhaps smoking Borkum Riff as he rehabilitated injured finches. I was getting all excited, even. (I loved my college days. They made an impression on me, har har.)
Well, turns out Losty is a girl. A cute, young female. Who probably wears a pith helmet when she ranges around the hinterlands, so I might have got one part right.

…Hey, where IS losty? LOSTY!

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-18 09:34:15

Squealin victimhood? Again?????????? Whatever happened to that good ol’ fashioned pull yourself up by your bootstraps rugged individualism BS line conserva-creeps like to throw around?

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2009-08-18 10:21:33

Ah, the good ol’ days when I used to smoke Borkum Riff Bourbon Whiskey! I’d forgotten all about it.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:22:49

Library is closed on Tuesdays.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 11:50:24

because of the fascists!

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-18 12:20:29

dam dem dar fashissssss! day try tuh tayk muh weeepons from mee!

 
 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-18 05:50:29

Don’t forget the Maoists. There are a couple of them here too. :-)

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 06:09:51

Not to mention possibly one or two John Birchers. OK, I won’t mention them.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 06:16:49

I’ve always been partial to the Marx-Engels-Fuerbach-Trotsky school of thought, which is stretching the word “school” a tad.

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Comment by wolfgirl
2009-08-18 06:41:23

Maybe some memebers of the Revolultionary Union too.But they’re cloased cadre.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-18 08:49:45

I’m with the Elvish Cohort and the Unicorn Brigade, myself. More silk spider woven shirts and Lights of Galadriel for Everyone !

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 09:17:38

and the precious!

 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 06:19:25

Not sure where I fit in, I would say a Constitutionalist, but unfortunately it’s been all but forgotten by the 535 that run the show. Out of that useless crowd, few have read it and many could not even spell the word.

P.S. This is the least dangerous time of year, when the turds from the D.C. cesspool are on recess!

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-08-18 07:35:29

It is only safe if you’re in DC. If not, there is a chance they could be taking recess in your neighborhood, in which case your danger potential goes up.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-18 08:24:54

Nah, they’re much less dangerous when they are not gathered together in large numbers…

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-18 06:25:26

I told you. We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week….

Comment by James
2009-08-18 07:18:41

See the violence inherent in the system…

Comment by Cowtown
2009-08-18 10:47:56

I’m being oppressed!

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Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-08-18 07:52:30

Yes I see …

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 06:31:32

Don’t forget the Know Nothings.

Comment by exeter
2009-08-18 06:35:58

:)

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-18 06:49:35

And also Olygal Obsessive-Compulsive Addictive Co-Dependents (but I won’t name names). ;-)

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-08-18 07:07:36

And also Olygal Obsessive-Compulsive Addictive Co-Dependents (but I won’t name names)

ROTFLMFAO…

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:31:48

YOU feel beat up?
My first reaction to your post _ what a pussy.
You feel beat up by ben, ex etc?

MAN UP, sheesh you are military.
Obviously being a military man your perception is
‘my way or the highway’
‘I am the only one who is right’
‘what the military tells me is right, is right’.
Raised by high ranking officer,
I know this from lifelong
experience.
But doesn’t make it right. Just your perception.

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-18 11:40:48

You and Ex missed Stpn’s little smiley face.

It’s all pillow fighting around here. There may be some solid swings, but it’s still a pillow.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 07:07:43

I resemble that clinical definition! :)

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Comment by cougar91
2009-08-18 07:27:47

Don’t sweat it ATE-UP, many of us HBB bloggers have fallen under the magical spell of Olygal at one time or another. Must be those magic mushrooms. :-)

 
Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-18 07:32:26

No, you ARE the clinical definition.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 07:34:39

Thank you Bub, confirmation is nice, rather than, let’s say, a differential diagnosis.

 
 
 
 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 06:31:44

Does anyone have a good MEASURABLE example of a case where government subsidies have increased demand for a commodity?

For example, how much did health care spending increase among those eligible with the innaguration of medicare?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 06:48:47

housing?

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 07:13:47

Which subsidy would you point to for illustration, and what would you measure? (The two that come quickly to mind would be interest write-off, and home ownership rate.)

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Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 07:40:33

What about that juicy tax break: If you sell the house for a profit, you don’t pay tax on the profit if you trade up — (something like that?)

Whatever it was, it fed the flipping frenzy like nothing else.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 07:42:22

And what about the tax write-off if you bought a “light truck” for your “business.” Overnight our roads were rife with soccer moms in Escalades.

 
Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 07:45:17

And what about all the ag? Pay a farmer to not grow wheat to drive down supply and drive up prices. Okay, technically demand wasn’t affected much, but it increased the demand/supply ratio.

And the tax breaks for solar panels?

And hey, what about CASH FOR CLUNKERS???

 
Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 07:48:03

As for health care, Medicare may not have increased demand for healthcare, but it did increase demand for everything else. Like, seniors are buying more food because they’re still alive to need it?

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-18 08:41:09

And what about all the ag? Pay a farmer to not grow wheat to drive down supply and drive up prices.

Forget about payments to not grow crops for the moment — the combination of tariffs (on sugar, for example) and various incentives/subsidies killed off many family farms, allowed agribusiness to grow into a behemoth, left us with vast swaths of corn and soybean monocultures, and gave us the omnipresent miracle of high-fructose corn syrup.

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2009-08-18 09:32:37

The student loan scam.

 
 
 
Comment by Timmy Boy
2009-08-18 08:00:04

.
Cash for clunkers (& I don’t mean TARP)

 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-08-18 08:06:19

Highway building and driving, which destroyed mass transit (which had been built by the private sector, though generally with public subsidy) and encouraged suburban sprawl.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:34:21

hwy building was because of the Auto industry and OIL industry which were private. Auto and Oil industry destroyed mass transit, not gov sector.

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Comment by kirisdad
2009-08-18 13:46:07

Also the automobile tire industry.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 16:31:31

I didn’t know Tires too. Is that what autos had in the day? JK

 
Comment by kirisdad
2009-08-18 17:34:38

IIRC, goodyear tire helped destroy most big city trolley systems.

 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 08:33:41

Food stamps.

 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-08-18 09:35:09

Farm programs re corn sugar cotton. Subsidies boosts output, which is sold. May or not be good comparison.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 12:38:43

“Does anyone have a good MEASURABLE example of a case where government subsidies have increased demand for a commodity?”

The better question, dude, is name one that hasn’t.

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 14:45:53

Give that man a prize!!!

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Comment by Blano
2009-08-18 06:52:55

To conclude what???

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 08:43:57

In regard to my subsidy question? Have you heard of anyone talking about a healthcare budget constraint?

Subsidize something and you’ll get more of it.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:03:54

We are mostly Americans. It is gradually dawning on me that this whole capitalist / socialist / communist classification is a bunch of political BS, right along with the false Republicrat / Demobumb dichotomy, whose main purpose is to provide a convenient label with which to demonize anyone whose viewpoint you don’t like. At the end of the day, all Americans have, at some level, tied their fates to a too-big-to-fail corporation, Uncle Sam, Inc, and rely on the flow of goods and services it produces.

Comment by Al
2009-08-18 07:21:03

“whose main purpose is to provide a convenient label with which to demonize anyone whose viewpoint you don’t like.”

PB, I declare thee an antifalsehoodmentarianist and condemn you for it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:44:04

I deeply regret that as a child, I was inculcated with the core American values of honesty and integrity. In my old age, I am finding it difficult to shake these qualities.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:47:15

My favorite newscaster:

- Jon Stewart, who relentlessly confronts liars and manipulators with ice cold facts.

My favorite politician:

- The Senator from Minnesota who wrote this book:

Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right

(I don’t have anything in particular against the Right — I just like the title…)

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 11:22:18

My favorite chapter in that book had this title: “Smorty-smort, blort-de-blort!”

Or something like that.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 11:59:29

I personally find lying to be a repugnant occupation. It is deeply troubling to me that so many of my fellow Americans seem quite comfortable with the practice. I personally doubt that a banking system based on lies rather than trust can be very sound — in fact, I would cite last fall’s collapse of the investment banking sector on Wall Street as prima facie evidence of the consequences of institutionalized mendacity.

I know the MIT- and Harvard-trained geniuses running the banking system may not see it this way, but banking and plumbing are very different industries. Trust is an essential form of capital in the banking system, and once lost, it is very hard to regain it.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:47:11

Demobumb Dumbocrat

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-18 08:06:15

You sir are a commie. ;-)

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-18 09:03:56

Yes no black and white here. Stpn2 said he supported the military VA system, Medicare and SS. I’m sure there are many who would call him a socialist. I think most here are capitalists we differ on regulation and the idea that there may be some areas where the capitalistic system fails. I think most here agree that propping up too big to fail or taking over banks and car companies is anti American. There is a lot of disagreement on regulation and medical care. My point is that capitalism does not work when you have oiligopolies/monopolies or the customer doesn’t understand the product. Take health care. There are many markets where 1 or two giant health systems control the vast majority of patients. Thus there is minimal to no competition. Are you any better off in this type of system then a public one. At least with the public option there is more transparancy and you have the option of getting your representative to make changes. My other complaint about the free market system for medical care is that the customer really has no way to compare products. Most people choose insurance because of the price or advertising, rules can change once you sign up, they have no idea about when and why the insurance company might terminate their coverage. Most choose Doctors for similar reasons (personality, advertising, what they look like, nice building ect). How many companies with good products has Microsoft crushed just due to it’s market domination. How many would be power producers are prevented from providing power to citites because utilities control transmission lines, how many states and citites have been raped by those that control natural gas lines (see Enron), how many would be content providers are prevented from providing content on cable and TV because one or a handfull of large companies control the medium. In my view we would be more capitalistic if the gov ran or highly regulated cable lines, power transmission, nat gas lines, operating systems. Look at how the internet created huge numbers of companies. How many companies thrive in the US because of an open highway system. Would they have done as well if one or two large companies controlled the highways and tolls I think not.
One other area where there is disagreement is on the governments duty to prevent poverty. Extreme poverty is a problem for everyone. How many here would not take to a life of crime if they had no job and their children were starving. I hate wellfare,foodstamps, and medicaid - I’d replace them all with a works program where FED pays people to work. I don’t care if it’s showing up on time to ride a bike to power a light bulb there should be no free lunch period. Some consider the very idea that the gov prevents poverty socialist, if so then I am a socialist because I don’t want the many problems that go along with extreme poverty. As far as who should pay for it, I’d start by creating a new tax bracket for those making over a million a year. I’d add a windfall profit tax for all those in the financial industry that profited off bank bail outs. Extreme wealth discrepancies thwart market capitalism and democracy in my book. The top 0.1% pay a lower effective tax rate then the middle 20% it’s time for that to be fixed.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 09:18:27

Professer Bear,

Politics are about values. We all value things at the expense of other things. A Libertarian might value personal liberty at the expense of others basic human needs. The Liberal might value those basic human needs at the expense of another’s hard work.

I have never had a conversation with someone who holds different values where I could not understand their viewpoint and find a reasonable compromise where mine differed.

Unfortunately, the political system that has been fostered upon us by history is designed to divide us, in order to control us.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:23:16

Politics is about legitimizing theft.

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Comment by Al
2009-08-18 09:36:46

Politics is about controlling the chaos that would occur if everyone acted completely independently and only in their own best interest.

Sometimes it is done by putting limits on how people can behave, but it attempts to allow for the greatest freedom possible.

Other times force and oppression are used, and minimal freedom is a desired outcome.

At all times, corruption is present to some degree and it hurts the best efforts of government. Incompetence too.

No government system can be completely fair. It will always cause an injustice to some of varying degrees. The hope is that the good done greatly outweighs the bad.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 09:58:21

Theft is illegally taking something that belongs to someone else. When it changes from illegal to legal, it is no longer theft.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:01:16

Theft is illegally taking something that belongs to someone else. When it changes from illegal to legal, it is no longer theft.

Lots of tongues in lots of cheeks around here today.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:06:21

Politics is about who gives orders & who takes them. At some point some people decide to go along just to get along. Except in tribal cultures, 100% group consensus doesn’t work to make things happen.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 10:09:14

“No government system can be completely fair.”

On that note, I plan to vote in the next election for the politician most likely to screw somebody else benefit me personally.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 10:10:33

“Theft is illegally taking something that belongs to someone else.”

Sorry, I guess I misspoke. Politics is not theft, at least by your definition.

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-18 10:48:52

I suppose PB that when politics becomes excessively corrupt, then taxation could be considered theft. Taking money from the masses to the benefit of the few; I would accept that as theft. How about taxation without representation is theft?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 11:02:24

“How about taxation without representation is theft?”

How about inflation without representation (or an election) is theft?

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-18 12:05:52

What about representation without taxation? Why do people who contribute nothing to the system get an opinion about how it’s spent?

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 14:57:06

That’s a good one, bubblebuyer. A large fraction at the bottom and a tiny fraction at the top pay no taxes. Let’s disenfranchise the lot of them.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 16:01:35

“What about representation without taxation?”

The British ran into a bit of a problem with that a couple of hundred years ago — something to do with tea, I believe?

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-18 16:27:31

That was taxation without representation, a whole different issue.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 12:45:00

From Dictionary.com

Politics

1. the science or art of political government.
2. the practice or profession of conducting political affairs.
3. political affairs: “The advocated reforms have become embroiled in politics.”
4. political methods or maneuvers: “We could not approve of his politics in winning passage of the bill.”
5. political principles or opinions: “We avoided discussion of religion and politics. His politics are his own affair.”
6. use of intrigue or strategy in obtaining any position of power or control, as in business, university, etc.
7. (initial capital letter, italics) a treatise (4th century b.c.) by Aristotle, dealing with the structure, organization, and administration of the state, esp. the city-state as known in ancient Greece.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:36:14

BRAVO - demonization of someone who doesn’t think or look like you is what the MSM does.

 
 
Comment by polly
2009-08-18 07:49:17

Eh, not sure where this fits in, but there a few guys standing on the corner of 17th and Pennsylvania Avenue this morning holding up a sign that says “Egypt loves Obama.” Also, there was one that had the word “Coptic” on it, but I couldn’t read the rest. Sign was floppy white poster board with letters in black magic marker, so thery were not professionally printed or made to attract a lot of attention. Someone needs to organize these fellows; they are not camera ready.

Got to love DC.

Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-18 07:57:45

Coptics are Christian Egyptians.

Comment by polly
2009-08-18 08:28:31

Umm..yeah, I know that. Actually, I presume most people here know that. I just couldn’t read the sign.

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Comment by kirisdad
2009-08-18 13:54:14

Sorry I offended you, Polly. Go back and see how your post reads. Maybe you’ll see how I made that mistake.

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 08:34:57

They are also the unofficial trash collectors in Egypt.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-08-18 08:05:10

Maybe they are from Asia-minor Coptic Obamatrons Running Nuts - ACORN. ;)

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:37:25

do a little better research. acorn isn’t the boogeyman you have been led to believe.

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-08-18 10:10:26

Red til I”m dead ;)

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-08-18 10:13:53

But then, I grew up in the Peoples Republic of Santa Monica in the late 70’s. You can hardly blame me.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-08-18 10:13:11

My marine buddy calls me a Godless commie. I’m certainly Godless, and I think all relations and transactions between any parties should be voluntary. Some “lefitst” libertarians think that you can have communalism and still keep it voluntary. Or the “Voyage From Yesteryear” type of non-state. The ism does not matter to me as long as it’s all voluntaryism.

Wendy McElroy and I think Carl Watner had a group called Voluntaryists. Not sure if its’ still existing. I’ll have to check up on them.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 12:52:27

“My marine buddy calls me a Godless commie.”

That’s pretty funny, Bill.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 03:56:27

But we need all these gubmint ’services’.

Tax Bills Put Pressure on Struggling Homeowners.
The New York Times

Hard times are causing more homeowners to fall behind on their property taxes. But in thousands of cases, they are not responsible to their local governments, but to private companies that charge double-digit interest and thousands of dollars in service fees.

“When you think about abandoned properties, foreclosed properties — the cost to the community is far more expensive than the short-term benefits,” Anita Lopez, an auditor in Ohio, said.

This is because in recent years struggling cities and counties have sold their delinquent tax bills to the highest bidder. It seemed a painless way to turn old debts into cash to finance schools or public services.

But housing advocates say the private companies may be exacerbating the foreclosure crisis, pushing out homeowners faster than would governments, which are increasingly concerned about neighborhoods becoming wastelands of abandoned properties.

“In the beginning, you’re getting this immediate windfall of cash,” said Anita Lopez, the auditor of Lucas County, Ohio, which sold off more than 3,000 tax liens for $14.7 million. The county includes Toledo. “But when you think about abandoned properties, foreclosed properties — the cost to the community is far more expensive than the short-term benefits.”

Investors say the arrangement actually benefits everyone. School districts, fire departments and public parks get an infusion of cash. The investors take on a risky but potentially high-yielding investment. And taxpayers do not have to pick up the slack from scofflaw landlords or tax evaders.

Governments, of course, can charge interest and penalties too, and they foreclose on properties for back taxes. But governments charge interest rates that are half what private investors charge — often offering no-interest payment plans — and are also more likely to be concerned about the long-term prospects of neighborhoods.

In Toledo, one of the areas hardest hit by the downturn and by private lenders holding tax liens, homeowners like Richard Fix are facing foreclosure for a few thousand dollars in overdue taxes.

Mr. Fix said he lost his job with Chrysler in January 2008 and took a lower-paying job. As he and his family struggled to pay their mortgage, credit cards and other bills, he said they fell behind on $5,900 in taxes.

“I’m in a no-win situation at this point,” he said.

With the economy faltering and property values plunging, homeowners and landlords are falling behind on their bills or abandoning their property, just as governments are facing huge budget shortfalls.

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 04:22:57

wmbz’s wry comment is appropriate

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 06:26:39

I’m sure the $14 million gained from selling citizen debt really went to the firefighters and parks.

 
Comment by Blano
2009-08-18 06:55:31

Finkbeiner’s good at finding someone else to blame for Toledo’s problems.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-08-18 07:14:35

Mr. Fix said he lost his job with Chrysler in January 2008 and took a lower-paying job. As he and his family struggled to pay their mortgage, credit cards and other bills, he said they fell behind on $5,900 in taxes.

Maybe Mister Fix should sell some of the toys that he bought with the borrowed money.

Comment by polly
2009-08-18 08:24:53

Why would he pay the credit cards before the property taxes when you can discharge the credit cards in bankruptcy but the property taxes will always put the house at risk? I don’t get it.

Look, I don’t know how this sort of thing happens, but I can guess. Town manager (or mayor, or whoever) wants to find a way to say that they are saving money. Of course, they don’t really care about actual savings or what is good for the town, but they need to do it to run for re-election (if elected official) or to qualify for bonus (hired administrator). Have always collected back taxes by central office staff nagging the home owners (collecting reasonable interest), and the very occassional trip to court to file a lien. May never have actually started a foreclosure themselves, but have piggy backed on a rare forclosure started by a lender.

Ah, ha! A consultant comes in and says that they could elminate 3/8’s of a staff position in the central office if they outsourced the back property tax collections to an outside source. Delinquency rate has been pretty low in most parts of town and the one area that does have higher rates has the lowest voter turnout and no donations to local election campaigns, so who cares about them? Consultant refers Mayor to his investment banker friend to talk about purchasing the delinquent payments.

So, the mayor does the deal. Some poor admin in the central office - someone who actually understands the economics of the side of town where most of the delinquencies happen and therefore knows when to put people on a payment plan or when it is a lost cause and filing a lien early is the best strategy - gets cut back to part time and loses her health insurance. The fees that the outside consultant gets are huge.

The “sale” of the back taxes to the investment bank causes the town to get the money on average 6 weeks earlier than they otherwise would, so there is an improvement in the budget numbers for exactly ONE fiscal quarter. After that, the number are worse because the discount that is used on the delinquent taxes when they are sold is more than 10 times the 3/8’s salary and benefits of the admin who used to do the collection. The stream of delinquent property taxes is securitized and turned into triple A rated bonds because over the past 10 years, the taxes were always able to be covered by the sale or refinancing of the house (or put on a credit card).

And the only people who really benefit are the consultant and the investment bank that puts together the bonds and sells them to a pension fund. Oh, and the mayor who gets re-elected as a cost cutter until the bubble bursts and people can no longer go to “Nora” to get an extension on their property tax bills - these delinquencies are now happening all over town, not just on the side of town with low voter turnout. The mayor also got taken out for a few really nice lunches at the local steak house by the consultant and the investment banker who charged the lunches to their expense accounts.

And that is how the world works.

Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 08:38:08

Some places have payment plans for property taxes?

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Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-18 08:55:11

Yes.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 08:50:05

polly that is another great post.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 12:28:17

Polly always gives great post.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:41:04

Man you nailed it Polly.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 12:51:59

Exactly polly.

Ain’t privatizing the government grand?

For more examples of the “success” of government outsourcing, Google IBM and their failures successes at running state and information systems.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 15:36:37

“… state and LOCAL…”

*sheesh* Gotta lay off the chocolate!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 16:33:56

Eco, never lay off the chocolate. I hear it really saves Men.

Which really tics me off. Now the msm says chocolate is terrific for men, nothing about women. And you KNOW OLY and I love our chocolate bunnies.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-18 16:56:57

That must be because it is SO TOTALLY obvious that chocolate is really good for women of all ages.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 17:45:34

And you KNOW OLY and I love our chocolate bunnies.

Yes. Hey, that reminds me…

*opens desk drawer and finds a little yummy bunny to hop towards my head *

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-18 21:58:45

Wow, Polly. That is Kern Kounty to a “T”. Thank you for that post.

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Comment by James
2009-08-18 07:36:22

So, I wonder what who holds the title or pays for the fines after this? I guess the infesters do? Probably end up suing the city to give money to the city while taking a cut.

This is one of those things that was better left to government hands. Much like prisons, you don’t want a profit motive assigned to something this negative.

 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-08-18 09:46:54

Of course lowering property taxes is not an option. Reporting from the village of Miami Shores (an 12 x 12 block area in north Miami) we need services like:
1. A library in the days of the internet.
2. A code enforcement division with 3 employees that decides what color you can paint your house or when your lawn needs to be cut.
3. A mayor that just got a 11% pay raise
4. 2 garbage pick ups a week
5. Our own police department that is busy writing traffic tickets and keeping the local coffee shop in business
6. A bunch of utterly useless city/village employees, like the village idiot(s).
7. Fancy traffic signs that can light up arrows pointing in various directions and display directions.

Yes, all this are absolutely necessary. The world would come to an end if we wouldn’t have our own mayor and a bunch of his village idiots spending our tax money. Having people getting thrown out of their houses to pay for fancy traffic signs is a small price to pay. Oh, yeah, our library has a really nice fire place for all those cold nights in Miami. A sign informs the library visitor that the computers are not to be used to surf porn.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:43:19

Oh, yeah, our library has a really nice fire place for all those cold nights in Miami.

No way. ?

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-18 20:31:27

Sorry Mike….this is more of a health issue then money, in the humid 90+ degree heat…

4. 2 garbage pick ups a week

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 04:04:25

New home building is starting to gain more traction here in the midlands of S.C. although we have numerous unfinished over grown developments, just sitting idle. I know builders build, but who will absorb these homes? We are way over built.

Treasuries Drop Before Report That May Show Home Starts Rose.

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — Treasuries fell, sending 10-year notes down for the first time in four days, before a government report economists said will show U.S. builders broke ground on homes at the fastest pace in eight months.

Yields climbed from the lowest level in almost four weeks as stocks around the world advanced following their biggest rout since April yesterday, and on speculation an industry report later this week on existing home sales will show the U.S. recession is easing. Investors should unwind bets on a rally in longer-maturity Treasuries, according JPMorgan Chase & Co. Investor confidence in Germany jumped to its highest level in more than three years.

“Data in the next couple of months will continue to act as if we’re in the beginning of a solid economic recovery,” said David Schnautz, a fixed-income strategist in Frankfurt at Commerzbank AG, Germany’s second-biggest lender. “That will place an upward pressure on yields.”

The yield on the 10-year note rose four basis points to 3.51 percent as of 10:36 a.m. in London, according to BGCantor Market Data. The 3.625 percent security maturing in August 2019 fell 10/32 or $3.13 per $1,000 face amount, to 100 31/32.

Yields dropped to 3.46 percent yesterday, a level not seen since July 22, as a decline in stocks spurred investors toward the relative safety of U.S. debt. They will trade at 3.8 percent at the end of September and at 4 percent by year-end, Schnautz said.

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 04:35:09

It does boggle the mind how housing starts are applauded when 19 million US homes stand empty.

(From last night: John Mauldin lately mentioned “2 million,” I recalled PB’s “19 million,” I pointed JM to a Bloomberg report of 19 mil, he said it was a typo, PB pointed me to a census bureau report of 19 mil, I sent it to JM, we’ll see what JM says next.)

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-18 04:59:33

As I posted over the weekend, a local goobermint subsidized housing development is going through a major expansion, the land’s been all cleared and posted and laid out, just waiting for new homes for the subsidized class.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 06:28:42

If you’re rich, you’re rich. If you’re poor, you’re rich. Everyone else, bend over.

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Comment by dude
2009-08-18 06:40:27

This reminded me of the Ben Franklin quote from yesterday:

We should make the poor uncomfortable, to kick them out of poverty”

- Benjamin Franklin

The antithesis:

We should not make the rich comfortable, to keep them in wealth.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 06:32:21

Hey palmy, looks like Bill is going to miss you guys, and head north. I hope so.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 06:12:15

Looked at a planned 30 home patio development last weekend, 6 complete 2 occupied and 1 of those is for sale. No further const. going on, asking prices remain the same as they were 1 year ago. BB&T did the financing. This is the group that just picked up that mortgage mess that went under in Alabama, Colonial Banc Corp.

Anyway they are financing tons of other commercial and residential developments around here like most other banks, but very,very few are selling. Seems crazy not to clear inventory, but we see no signs of that. I guess if you don’t have to count bad or under preforming debt/loans, what the hell, keep on pumping and hoping.

The local branch of Regions bank that I deal with is underwater, and may be far worse than reported. However they are deep into the BARF funds, so the beat goes on.

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-18 07:35:41

Where is “around here”?

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Comment by packman
2009-08-18 06:27:17

FWIW - I’ve found that generally absolute numbers can be very misleading, so what’s really important is the trend - i.e. how the numbers today compare with historical norms.

Here’s the trend

Yes there are a lot of vacancies, relative to historical norms.

That’s in percentage terms - I’ll have to whip up one in absolute numbers, though keep in mind absolute numbers have the limitation of being subject to population increase.

Comment by packman
2009-08-18 07:00:20

Here’s the same in absolute numbers (population adjusted).

Vacancy rate

The question is - is “normal” 14-15M (1990-2002), or 10-11M (1965-1985)? Either way, the current value of 18.7M is way high relative to historical norms.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:34:04

Thanks again for your graphs (I responded to your previous post on yesterday’s bit bucket late last night).

I am pretty sure that 2.5 million leg up in the number of vacant homes between 2006-2009 has an interesting story behind it, but I believe the story still waits to be told.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:41:43

The other interesting story to be told is the rise in vacant US homes during the Volcker-Greenspan-Bernanke era at the Fed (not intending to cast blame here — just noting the historic overlap):

1979 = 9.3 m
2009 = 18.7 m

The percentage increase in number of vacant housing units over the past thirty years exceeds 100%.

If you want to try to define “normal,” you might begin by converting into “vacant homes per household.” There are currently something like 114m US hh’s; not sure how many there were in 1979?

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 07:44:55

I am pretty sure that 2.5 million leg up in the number of vacant homes between 2006-2009 has an interesting story behind it, but I believe the story still waits to be told.

Tongue-in-cheek?

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 07:57:39

If you want to try to define “normal,” you might begin by converting into “vacant homes per household.” There are currently something like 114m US hh’s; not sure how many there were in 1979?

Well I think the problem is this - as part of the bubble there was also an inordinate increase in the number of “households” - e.g. parents who bought a house in their kids’ names (e.g. for college) and the like. Right now I think we’re having a great shrinkage of households due to people moving “back home” - i.e. consolidation. The one constant (so to speak) is population itself. Though of course even that over time changes demographically - e.g. immigration and birth trends.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 08:01:14

‘…as part of the bubble there was also an inordinate increase in the number of “households”…’

That is a good point; now that lots of young folks are freshly degreed but still jobless, household formation can be expected to head into reverse for the next little while.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 08:02:41

Another factor in household formation: Marriage and divorce.

I have seen at least one recent article suggesting that (like in the 1930s), couples who would rather divorce have recently begun working things out for economic survival.

 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-18 08:11:35

Ironic, since it was probably the family economics that caused the problem, in the first place.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:00:13

Another factor in household formation: Marriage and divorce.

I have seen at least one recent article suggesting that (like in the 1930s), couples who would rather divorce have recently begun working things out for economic survival.

Makes sense.

Likewise during boom times - when everyone’s feeling rich - how does the saying go - “the grass is always greener”?

Now when you’re 45 and just got laid off, and have to ditch the sports car - you look at your not-quite-10 wife and realize she’s not so bad after all.

(speaking hypothetically of course, since my wife *is* a 10)

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:49:01

Gee glad you cleared that one up FAST,
ou look at your not-quite-10 wife and realize she’s not so bad after all.

(speaking hypothetically of course, since my wife *is* a 10)

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-18 13:39:26

Yep, cos its difficult being single and on unemployment. Ask me, I know. But at least I’m debt free.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 19:29:35

“(speaking hypothetically of course, since my wife *is* a 10)”

I am similarly blessed.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-08-18 23:52:08

Yep, cos its difficult being single and on unemployment. Ask me, I know

I was there with you, potential buyer. There’s light at the end of the tunnel, though.

 
 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 07:03:47

19 million, but that includes lots of homes that aren’t for sale as I recall. 2nd homes, vacation homes, etc.

Comment by James
2009-08-18 07:37:53

I believe the big kicker in that is hotel rooms.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:49:23

There is apparently an issue of lumping apples with oranges in those vacancy figures. As packman has astutely noted, the trend is perhaps the more relevant indicator than the absolute number of vacant housing units.

Do you have any thoughts on that 2.5m spike between 2006-2009 (lots of hotel building, perhaps)?

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 08:01:50

Hotel rooms are not included as housing units, vacant or otherwise, unless they’re a “usual place of residence”. From the definitions section of the data:

Housing Unit. A housing unit is a house, an apartment, a group of rooms, or a single room occupied or intended for occupancy as separate living quarters. Separate living quarters are those in which the occupants do not live and eat with other persons in the structure and which have direct access from the outside of the building or through a common hall. For vacant units, the criteria of separateness and direct access are applied to the intended occupants whenever possible. If the information cannot be obtained, the criteria are applied to the previous occupants. Tents and boats are excluded if vacant, used for business, or used for extra sleeping space or vacations. Vacant seasonal/migratory mobile homes are included in the count of vacant seasonal/migratory housing units. Living quarters of the following types are excluded from the housing unit inventory: Dormitories, bunkhouses, and barracks; quarters in predominantly transient hotels, motels, and the like, except those occupied by persons who consider the hotel their usual place of residence; quarters in institutions, general hospitals, and military installations except those occupied by staff members or resident employees who have separate living arrangements.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:26:03

Dang, packman, stop being so factually accurate! You are going to put the rest of us to shame by conducting due diligence.

Where do units at the Marriot Residence Inn fit the classification? (I am guessing that if they are separate suites, they count as “housing units”?)

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:04:22

Where do units at the Marriot Residence Inn fit the classification? (I am guessing that if they are separate suites, they count as “housing units”?)

It depends on whether the wall between living areas is over 4 feet or not. With Candlewood Suites though the criteria is 6 feet. $$ to the PTB from big Candlewood lobby (no pun intended).

Dang - there are lots of tongues in lots of cheeks today.

 
Comment by james
2009-08-18 13:59:19

About the trend PB,

It is exactally whay you think it is. Over building in almost all classes. Hotels, CRE and SFR.

As I’ve noted in here many times; a good number of the houses built have a negative value. Too hard to maintain, too far from the grid to keep basic services, too far to commute from.

So. The value is zero, or worse if you have to tear them down. Negative value. Can see some banks getting sued over these properties.

I believe we are looking at 1yr+ of excess inventory. Some with substantial demand mismatch too. If you are looking to pick up a McMansion in the desert for some ungodly reason, like ritual sacrifices, you should be able to do so on the cheap.

Again a trend tword thrift is begining and will probably continue. Expect it to pull down GDP or inflation adjusted GDP for a long long while.

Also have to say the demographic trends are really against real estate for a long time. Household formation rate is down. Age of the population is up.

Sit back and hide your wealth hombre.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 15:33:31

james: you hit everthing I think, (and probably could not put into words as good as you) exactly on the head.

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 08:42:49

John Mauldin received the Census Bureau report and responded by admitting that the “2 million” figure is only the vacant homes FOR SALE, does not include rental apts etc that might be vacant, but pointed out that a lot of the 19 mil might be vacation homes that the owners are not just waiting to put on the market.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:28:35

“…only the vacant homes FOR SALE…”

So the figure he prefers to cite completely ignores the ginormous elephant under the rug of homes in payment delinquency (soon-to-become-REO) or tract homes and condos that are in abandonment status?

Oh…

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Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:06:09

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Nothing like thorough MSM investigation.

(Maudlin is generally, as stated yesterday, a good guy. But for Chrissake - do at least at little homework.)

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 11:53:18

but pointed out that a lot of the 19 mil might be vacation homes that the owners are not just waiting to put on the market.

“owners” as in banks.

Cause the ones that I have seen and reported are derelict and vacant/no signs of posters on windows.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 12:01:59

“owners” as in banks.

Just had a thought.

Being that there have been 77 bank failures so far this year - lots of these homes are now de facto owned by the federal government, are they not? In the case of FDIC shutdown of a bank - are the banks assets always sold to other banks? Or might these assets just be still owned by the government, potentially indefinitely? If so - what department? Does this just tie in with the general MBS pools owned by F/F?

(general question for those who may know)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Michael Fink
2009-08-18 04:21:20

Broward county get’s ready to raise tax rates (up to 25%):

http://tinyurl.com/m5hnvy

How long is it going to take these morons down here to realize that this is a direct result of SOH and Amend 1 (and, btw, the commend there about Amend 1 is not from me). We need tax caps so badly in FL it makes my head hurt. Something along the lines of the TABOR; or other “revenue neutral” models.

Property prices went up 2-3X in 5 years, mill rates remained unchanged. Property values fall 30-40% in 3 years, mill rates go up dramatically? Excuse my French, but WTF?

And, to make it all a bit worse, we have this little gem (from the above article):

“But the taxable value of property in Broward has declined two consecutive years, falling 10.5 percent this year from $166.4 billion to $147.2 billion.”

On what planet did property values only fall by 10% last year in S. FL? I assume their counting the SOH’ers in there (who are seeing taxes go up, and taxable values go up), but still.. Come on now, property values are down a solid 20-30% over the last year in S. FL, how’s the property appraiser going to deal with the continuing slide in values?

BTW, just as a frame of reference, our property taxes in FL are about 2% of home value per year. The 500K (last sale) place that rent has a tax bill of about 10K/yr.

Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-18 08:18:08

Good to hear from you again Mike. I feel SOH’s is there to stay. People are not going to vote away their guv’t bennies. It’ll take a lot more millage rate increases to even things out in that state.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 09:33:44

In Florida, the municipalities pass a tentative millage in August. Once that is passed, taxes cannot be higher than the tentative. However, they can go lower. So a lot of Commissions/Councils will set a higher tentative millage while going through the budget process, just in case they decide they want the extra money. Final millages are not set until September.

So you still have time to raise hell with the commissioners.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 10:33:00

“taxable value declined 10.5%”

– agree with you, this does not correspond to the reality of price declines. It probably does correspond to the reality of assessment declines.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-08-18 10:44:48

“On what planet did property values only fall by 10% last year in S. FL?”

A lot of properties are listed and selling for less than the tax assessors “appraised value.” It’s the government. They can do that kinda stuff.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 04:30:28

There will be plenty of back peddling, you don’t get votes when you piss off old folks.

Thousands Quit AARP Over Health Reform
Tens of Thousands Don’t Like the Health Care Overhaul

(CBS) CBS News has learned that up to 60,000 people have cancelled their AARP memberships since July 1, angered over the group’s position on health care.

Elaine Guardiani has been with AARP for 14 years, and said, “I’m extremely disappointed in AARP.”

Retired nurse Dale Anderson has 12 years with AARP and said, “I don’t wanna be connected with AARP.”

Many are switching to the American Seniors Association, a group that calls itself the conservative alternative as CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports.

Watch Extended AARP Interview Here

Last week alone, they added more than 5,000 new members. Our camera was there Friday when the mail came.

Letters were filled with cut-up AARP cards.

“I think that probably the seniors are most upset with cuts in Medicare,” said ASA President Stuart Barton.

The American Seniors Association is flat-out against President Obama’s plan, which calls for $313 billion dollars in Medicare cuts over ten years. The AARP is widely viewed as supporting the President.

Last week, Obama told a town meeting in Portsmouth, NH, “We have the AARP on board because they know this is a good deal for our seniors.”

The AARP called the President’s statements “inaccurate,” saying it hasn’t endorsed any plan or bill.

Some were left with the feeling that AARP was waffling.

“I feel they’re supporting it through the backdoor, and telling members that they’re not through the front door,” said Guardiani.

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-18 04:54:50

The Administration has really screwed the pooch with this health care issue. Really. Bad. Timing. Had Obama decided to go in the direction of cleaning up all the bad policies and initiatives from the prior Administration and worked on cleaning up all the financial shenanigans, instead of carrying on with business as usual and then some, he’d be in clover right now.

I want to thank tresho for posting some of the William K. Black commentary. The seething contempt with which he views Geithner, Summers et al is something I share.

Comment by SDGreg
2009-08-18 09:26:59

I want to thank tresho for posting some of the William K. Black commentary. The seething contempt with which he views Geithner, Summers et al is something I share.

Though it runs about 90 minutes, that’s a “must watch” from beginning to end.

 
 
Comment by Asparagus
2009-08-18 05:04:24

American Seniors Association a “conservative alternative” to AARP.

Don’t conservatives want less government handouts?

Comment by Asparagus
2009-08-18 05:07:52

…by conservative they mean don’t give ME any less. Conserve my benefits…

Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-18 05:55:56

I wonder if they realize that if the programs went unaltered we would soon be cutting services to keep the programs above water anyway. Obviously these seniors are betting on this happening after they’re long gone but I’ve been reading the projected insolvency point of these programs have been moved forward.

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Comment by WT Economist
2009-08-18 06:28:15

I read a Wall Street Journal editorial that attacked Obama for going after the seniors, who desperately need unlimited Medicare with no questions or review, whatever the health care industry can get them to take, to avoid suffering and suicide.

To solve the problem of Medicare’s banruptcy, it proposed gradually raising the age of eligibility, preserving benefits for those born before say 1955, making those come after get nothing until age 70+.

Because “children are resiliant,” as they said while getting divorced in the 1970s.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 06:43:19

“I wonder if they realize that if the programs went unaltered we would soon be cutting services to keep the programs above water anyway.”

CarrieAnn, you heartless capilalist pig! Everyone knows that wealth can be created by government mandate. Budget constraint? We don’t need no stinkin’ budget constraint!

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-08-18 07:06:59

We need to kick the illegals and the newly arrived off all our govt. medical umbrellas (Medicaid and Medicare). That would help us find a starting place. Not that anyone has the fortitude to do what’s right.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 07:16:51

Talk about an elephant under the rug!!! I’ve heard many pundits tout the fact that “the undocumented” would not be covered under Obamacare yet they aren’t planning to remove the requirement for emergency rooms to treat all comers?

This fixes what exactly?

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-18 07:21:22

I had heard the idea was floated in Congress that we move to 70% of present services. I forget the date associated w/that idea but it was before my anticipated retirement age. I’m 48. Polly, have you heard anything?

That WSJ article sounds like sheep herding at its finest. And yet so many normally intelligent people go along for the ride. Or maybe we have devolved to an “I’ve got mine. The rest can go eat cake” mentality.

It appears we’re watching another (attributed) Franklin quote come to pass: “When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.”

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-18 07:35:45

I read a Wall Street Journal editorial that attacked Obama for going after the seniors, who desperately need unlimited Medicare with no questions or review, whatever the health care industry can get them to take, to avoid suffering and suicide.

Heaven forbid we solve some issues for the under 65 set. Fueling the “unlimited” position, though, is the American sense that aging and dying are medical crises, not an inevitability.

 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-18 08:07:07

“this fixes what exactly?”

I think if everyone ’s required to have ins., emergency room visits( for non-emergencies) will be eliminated and costs will go down.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 08:15:39

My point was, the undocumented aren’t included, and in Cali this is exactly what is clogging the emergency room system and costing taxpayers billion each year. Nothing is being done to fix that.

A line really does need to be drawn at some point. I’ll use an extreme case, if a man can’t live in a gravity environment but would thrive in space do we pay the bill to send him into LEO and keep him there?

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-08-18 08:16:21

Medicare and SS both exist to keep the middle aged from being morally responsible for their parents. Used to be, mom moved in with the family, which took care of her. Now, it’s the boomer kid who can’t support himself who moves back in with mom to “take care” of her. That SS and Medicare indirectly supports a lot of boomers.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 08:45:17

I wonder if they realize that if the programs went unaltered we would soon be cutting services to keep the programs above water anyway.

As long as the cuts are not coming for another 20 years, most 65 year olds don’t care.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 08:45:58

Morality is variable in the brave new world Montaner.

+1 to your comment. though.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-18 08:47:17

Medicare and SS both exist to keep the middle aged from being morally responsible for their parents.

Interesting take on it — hadn’t thought of that perspective.

 
Comment by polly
2009-08-18 09:29:23

CarrieAnn,

70% of what services and for whom?

Well, I guess that answers your question. I haven’t heard of it. But I’ll try to react if you clarify.

Honestly, I have no idea how people deal with health insurance these days. The more stories I see, the more I am convinced that Blue Cross/Blue Shield uses more competent, better trained employees to administer their federal employee plan - in part because we have the option of shifting to one of 10 or 15 other plans (all cheaper) each year during the open season if we don’t like their service. I think that the senators and congressmen also have the same choices though they may get 100% premium coverage (I pay a smidge over 30% of my premiums). Or maybe they get their own special package. I just don’t know. I believe their staffers have access to the same plans that the executive branch does.

I did go to a health care finance hearing at the Senate Finance Committee a few months ago (just to listen, take notes and report back to managers). There was a protest because single payer wasn’t being considered. The experts generally said that taxing health benefits - at least really generous ones - was a great idea and that medicare was the least efficient system you could come up with because it jsut paid for anything a doctor said to do with no limits at all, even if the tests or procedures had been proven to be a useless waste of money. They *hate* the fee-for-service model.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:48:21

because it jsut paid for anything a doctor said to do with no limits at all, even if the tests or procedures had been proven to be a useless waste of money Sorry, Medicare does have limits. For one, the doc has to attach a diagnosis code to the tests he orders - if they don’t match, the test is not paid for by Medicare. Medicare tends to be stingy about things like physical therapy to rehabilitate little old ladies who have fractured their wrists. My mother got a free course of P.T. due to that quirk in the regs. I suppose the hospital system just billed the difference to someone else.

 
Comment by polly
2009-08-18 11:06:21

That is what the people testifying before the Senate said. I make no claim on their veracity or lack of same. They did seem highly qualified in their subject areas so I doubt their facts were wrong. Conclusions about how to make things better are more subjective.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 11:17:30

Exactly, CarrieAnn. A lot of these seniors are hypocrites. They scream socialism, but then turn around and enjoy the heck out of their medicare, and would hit the roof were there any changes.

dude posted:

“Talk about an elephant under the rug!!! I’ve heard many pundits tout the fact that “the undocumented” would not be covered under Obamacare yet they aren’t planning to remove the requirement for emergency rooms to treat all comers?

This fixes what exactly?”

I’m all for solving the illegal immigration problem, as I think it’s one of the biggest hurdles we face, but there’s no way in hell that an emergency room is going to refuse treatment for an illegal alien who is bleeding to death after being in a car accident, or an undocumented farm worker who is dying from anaphylaxis due to an adverse reaction to a farm pesticide. Never gonna happen.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-18 14:02:42

Polly,

I’m still looking for that exact article I read on SS benefits being cut to 70% of current levels. I’m zeroing in on ss and not medicare because of the info I found below but the article suggested both programs were equally precarious. I did find this from the Bush years:

“Incoming payments will exceed payouts until about 2018. After that interest earned on these trillions will have to be spent to cover payouts.

By 2028 we’ll also have to spend surplus principle to cover payouts.”

I remember this info was used as an explanation why cuts were unavoidable. The more recent article I read on the subject explained these dates had been moved up due to recent federal budget issues.

Quote from the following pdf:

warning, pdf:

http://sccdp.org/talkingpoints/SS_Dont_Privatize.pdf

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 14:43:01

Again, where do we draw the line? The ER must treat all comers, admittedly they do so by triage. There are far too many who use the ER as their primary care physician. The Obamacare plan, even the single payer version, does nothing to address this since illegal aliens aren’t part of the plan.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-08-18 06:12:29

Yep. The “greatest generation” has been replaced by the “greediest generation.”

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 07:10:59

benefits to you—Socialism!

benefits to me—my god-given right.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:54:28

Yep.

Brings to mind another old saw:

“Your job loss = recession.

My job loss = depression.”

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 09:40:20

massive deficits for you: socialism!
tax cuts for me: my God given right!

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-08-18 10:18:11

“Conservative” means to keep the status quo. This is why I can claim my buddy Barack Obama is conservative. Obama is actually averse to change.

An open society of voluntary transactions and relationships embraces change. It’s the Frederick Bastiat liberal society.

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Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 05:54:35

AARP has 40 million members. I don’t think they’ll miss 60,000. From what I’ve seen on the news, I’m surprised that number is as little as 60,000.

But these disenchanted seniors are right in that the AARP is supporting Obama through the back door.

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-18 06:55:58

Ahem, that’s just since the 1st of July. For -any- organization, that’s an alarming number. I say let The Defection continue!

Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 08:06:13

Yes, but that’s the initial bump, and likely to be the largest. Defection is likely to drop off exponentially. I do expect another defection bump if others let their membership lapse. But even if AARP loses, say, a million people, that’s still only 2.5% or so.

But come to think of it, I wonder what would happen to AARP’s insurance if all the seniors choose that public option thingy. Wiki says AARP makes more from their insurance than their membership dues.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-08-18 08:48:44

“initial bump”

I really wouldn’t know ( I’m not exactly a “joiner” )? Just look at all the ‘other’ org.’s seniors gravitate towards. Be it the VFW, American Legion, Elks, Lions, Penguins whatever, ALL have declining membership.

Obviously we’ll point to the Boomer’s but if they don’t feel AARP is acting in their best interests..? By moving “membership” all the way down to 50, they’ve definitely diluted the brand.

What ‘exactly’ do you guys stand for again?

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:50:09

Be it the VFW, American Legion, Elks, Lions, Penguins whatever, ALL have declining membership. But Medicare’s membership is booming & is expected to continue that way.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 11:34:28

I’m of the age. And yet I refuse to join AARP. Why? Because the AARP is a business that portrays itself as an interest group.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 15:49:51

In this country, there is no difference.

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 06:37:03

Too funny. Old white lady said, “I don’t want them giving gov’t health care to those poor black people, it should be reserved for us seniors who’s husbands worked at the factory some time ago while we shopped and attended tea parties.”

Comment by cashedin05
2009-08-18 09:51:43

Link?

 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-08-18 23:31:57

Didn’t think so.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-08-18 08:10:36

“I had heard the idea was floated in Congress that we move to 70% of present services. I forget the date associated w/that idea but it was before my anticipated retirement age. I’m 48.”

Me too. Following Generation Greed, we are in Generation Apathy. Figuring we were screwed in any public institution, we decided to stop paying attention to them, and just look after ourselves.

We’ll see how that works out. Not well for the vast majority, I’d guess. The “good” news? Our children may be worse off.

Comment by cactus
2009-08-18 09:47:58

“Me too. Following Generation Greed, we are in Generation Apathy. Figuring we were screwed in any public institution, we decided to stop paying attention to them, and just look after ourselves. ”

yea I’m 48 as well I think thats makes me a cusp boomer?

I feel more apathy like Gen X though.

This may all change back to a ” greatest generation” social order like ” spartens” very productive and warlike.

and then if we ( ‘WT ” and I) live really old we may see a new “woodstock ” generation spoiled and unproductive but able and willing to undo the worst of the ” new greatest generation” sparten like traits.

I read the ” Fourth Turning” they are all about these generational cycles and apathy is classic for the cycle that just ended, my cycle I guess.

Comment by kirisdad
2009-08-18 14:43:03

48 yrs old makes you part of the dreaded boomer generation (dob 1946-1964) not a cusp boomer. Sorry.

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Comment by cactus
2009-08-18 09:40:07

I think the worm has turned on awarding seniors more and better beniefits at the expense of the younger worker

we’ll see

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-18 10:09:46

Once again the news forgot to add that AARP at the same time gained some 400,000 new members during the same period and that 1.5 million members renewed their membership.

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-18 10:39:00

Well, we can safely assume that. That’s just the simple demographics of the situation. And I’m not out to ‘dismantle’ AARP.

I think though, this symbolizes real change. This has become high stakes, and NO one is going to remain 100% loyal to -any- org. if they can’t be sure that org. is 100% loyal to them?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 15:54:26

I wouldn’t call a ~0.6% movement real change. :wink:

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Comment by Cowtown
2009-08-18 11:06:38

Cite? We get enrollment offers from AARP regularly. I wonder if those are being counted among the “new members” figure. Just curious, the devil being in the details and all that.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-18 16:46:02

Cowtown,

Here’s the link about AARP gaining new members:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAjttCDNJu3o04YFKLhdHu927qpgD9A4V1HG0

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Comment by measton
2009-08-18 11:26:27

There will be plenty of back peddling, you don’t get votes when you piss off old folks.

Thousands Quit AARP Over Health Reform
Tens of Thousands Don’t Like the Health Care Overhaul

This is the dumbest headline ever. These people are true idiots. Why, because they are already enrolled in medicare, a program that is very popular. Unless they want medicare for themselves but think the younger generation should have to slug it out with private insurance that drops them as soon as they get sick, and delays payments, and has in many cases no competition.

This is nothing more than small minds following the rants of the moronic Glen Beck and Limbaugh. They are scared by the death panel lies.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 15:55:54

America! Where men are men and sheep are nervous! :lol:

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 16:45:04

LMAO!!!!!

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 21:25:09

In New Zealand, the reason Levi’s only sells button fly jeans is, the zipper sound causes stampedes.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-08-18 04:31:40

Foreclosure fix: Force banks into negotiation
By DARA KAM
Palm Beach Post Capital Bureau
Monday, August 17, 2009

TALLAHASSEE — Banks should be forced to negotiate with homeowners facing foreclosure, a Florida Supreme Court panel recommended Monday.

The panel, appointed by the high court in March, also recommended separating mortgage foreclosures into three groups: residential homes, abandoned properties and rental properties.

The court created the Task Force on Residential Mortgage Foreclosure Cases to suggest ways to deal with the influx of foreclosures clogging the state’s court system. Florida posted the nation’s second-highest number of foreclosure filings in July - a 23 percent increase from the previous year - according to Irvine, Calif.-based RealtyTrac.

The panel’s final report, released Monday, likened the impact of the increase in foreclosures on the courts to a car-jammed evacuation route during a hurricane.

The recommendations include expediting foreclosures on abandoned properties, an idea favored by consumer advocates.

“Required mediation would be good to get the banks to actually do something instead of dragging their feet,” said Bill Newton, executive director of the Florida Consumer Action Network. “It makes sense because it helps out the property values around these foreclosed areas.”

The 15-member panel of judges, lawyers and financiers acknowledged that the state’s budget crisis makes appointing more judges and clerks an unreasonable option for addressing the urgency of the situation.

The recommendations instead include “the least of evils that can work on an emergency basis to immediately begin to meet the challenge of these cases,” the task force wrote.

“We believe it is imperative that the Florida Supreme Court address the explosion of mortgage foreclosure filings as soon as possible for the welfare of our courts, our communities, our businesses, and our state,” the report reads.

Lenders should be required to pay for the mediation, a majority of the panel concluded. But four others, including the recently appointed head of the state Office of Financial Regulation and a representative of the state bankers association, disagreed, saying costs should be shared by borrowers.

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-18 06:54:14

“expediting foreclosures on abandoned properties”

Ya’ think? Be it FL, PHX or LV etc. in many cases payments haven’t been made in years. Attempts to contact the out of state flippers have yielded nothing.

For the Casey Serin crowd, any communication with the lender at this point would be like returning to the scene of a crime. You can’t get a hold of them b/c they don’t want to gotten a hold ‘of’.

Can the rest of us move forward now?

Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 08:47:45

“expediting foreclosures on abandoned properties”

I think that could be another show on HGTV.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 15:07:34

Certainly the mortgage notes I write require all legal costs connected with collection to be borne by the borrower.

AZ is a lender-friendly state.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 05:06:22

Widow selling husband’s tomb above Marilyn Monroe.

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - An American widow is selling her husband’s burial spot directly above film legend Marilyn Monroe so that she can pay off her mortgage.

Elsie Poncher has put an advertisement on eBay to auction off the tomb in Westwood Village Memorial Park, Los Angeles.

“Here is a once in a lifetime and into eternity opportunity to spend your eternal days directly above Marilyn Monroe,” says the advertisement.

“In fact the person occupying the address right now is looking face down on her.”

The burial plot is currently occupied by the late Richard Poncher, described by his widow as an entrepreneur who bought two tombs from baseball player Joe DiMaggio, Monroe’s ex-husband, as the pair were divorcing in 1954.

Monroe died at the age of 36 in 1962. Poncher died at the age of 81 in 1986.

Elsie Poncher said she would move her husband’s remains over one spot into a crypt intended as her final resting place if the sale is successful, and she would be cremated instead when the time comes.

Bidding for the plot opened at $500,000 and had reached $2.5 million by Sunday. No one from eBay was immediately available to comment on the bidding process or to give more details.

Poncher told the Los Angeles Times that she hoped to raise enough money to pay off the $1.6 million mortgage on her Beverly Hills home.

“I can’t be more honest than that,” she told the newspaper. “I want to leave it free and clear for my kids.”

The Westwood Village Memorial Park is home to many celebrities, including Dean Martin, James Coburn, Roy Orbison, Truman Capote, Natalie Wood, and the recently deceased Farrah Fawcett.

Playboy’s Hugh Hefner bought the crypt beside Monroe in 1992.

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 05:21:30

Banks to Lend up to 80% on Big-Ticket Crypts

The Great Green Crank and Bust Company, a Boston-area bank, said Monday it would consider making mortgage loans on eternal housing units, also known as crypts. Buyers would be required to put 20% down, as in mortgage deals of bygone years, and the monthly payments would be made by estates and trusts. The news was hailed as progressive by the American Bar Association, which noted that estates owing mortgage money on a crypt might have to be kept open for 30 years.

Some commentators at HBB wondered if the move might promote a bubble in crypt prices.

Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-08-18 07:38:55

Wow… 30 years of legal fees. Is it any wonder the ABA is in favor of this?

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 15:08:44

(Bubba didja notice I was spoofing? Check bank name.)

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Comment by Kim
2009-08-18 05:58:21

It would be pretty funny if Marilyn Monroe’s estate moved her remains. Way to prop up real estate values!

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 07:18:43

She should sell the crypt as time shares. ‘We’ll slide you in for the week of your choosing. Buy your birthday week as an eternal present to yourself!’

Comment by oxide
2009-08-18 08:09:54

+1 :lol:

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 13:19:29

:)

 
 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-18 07:36:13

Lie forever on top of Marylin Monroe

At the same time lie next to some random dude, and touching distance from Hugh Hefner.

Sick. Hope the eBay auction turns out to be a dud (as many often do).

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-18 09:04:07

That’s a smart idea. If Elsie can really get $ 2.5m for a crypt, so the occupant can “face down on Marilyn Monroe” ( wow - a little bit of sexaul fantasy there, I think ), then go for it, Elsie. She should actually move her husband’s remains to a regular cemetery and sell the crypt next door to it for $ 1.5m or whatever, too.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 15:58:28

“Here is a once in a lifetime and into eternity opportunity to spend your eternal days directly above Marilyn Monroe,” says the advertisement.

…unless somebody else moves you. :lol:

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-18 05:15:27

Anyone here invested int these municipal tax liens before? I see them on Ebay all the time.

NYTimes
Tax Bills Put Pressure on Struggling Homeowners

By JACK HEALY
Published: August 17, 2009

Hard times are causing more homeowners to fall behind on their property taxes. But in thousands of cases, they are not responsible to their local governments, but to private companies that charge double-digit interest and thousands of dollars in service fees.

This is because in recent years struggling cities and counties have sold their delinquent tax bills to the highest bidder. It seemed a painless way to turn old debts into cash to finance schools or public services.

But housing advocates say the private companies may be exacerbating the foreclosure crisis, pushing out homeowners faster than would governments, which are increasingly concerned about neighborhoods becoming wastelands of abandoned properties.

“In the beginning, you’re getting this immediate windfall of cash,” said Anita Lopez, the auditor of Lucas County, Ohio, which sold off more than 3,000 tax liens for $14.7 million. The county includes Toledo. “But when you think about abandoned properties, foreclosed properties — the cost to the community is far more expensive than the short-term benefits.”

Investors say the arrangement actually benefits everyone. School districts, fire departments and public parks get an infusion of cash. The investors take on a risky but potentially high-yielding investment. And taxpayers do not have to pick up the slack from scofflaw landlords or tax evaders.

Governments, of course, can charge interest and penalties too, and they foreclose on properties for back taxes. But governments charge interest rates that are half what private investors charge — often offering no-interest payment plans — and are also more likely to be concerned about the long-term prospects of neighborhoods.

Comment by LongIslandLost
2009-08-18 05:29:40

I looked at them five or six years ago. I got the impression that while investors would get paid, the towns still controlled the foreclosure process. Or, maybe it was that the foreclosure was automatic after a long period of time. To me, it looked like one of those things where investors put up money and waited a _very_ long and uncertain time for their money back.

I am too lazy to read the original article. If this sort of thing upset me, I would investigate whether the investors are forcing the foreclosures or if it was driven by the town or statue.

I am still puzzled how a lack of tax revenue will “improve” a neighborhood. If taxes are to be forgiven or lowered, those who actually pay on time should get the benefit.

Comment by Kim
2009-08-18 07:12:53

There was an HBB poster had a father who profitably invested in those. Can’t remember who it was, though.

I’m sure each state is different, but in IL I think you have to wait something like 2-3 years to begin foreclosure procedings (which can take around two years if occupant puts up a fight). And IIRC, the tax liens aren’t sold until they’re about two years overdue. So it can definitely be a long, uncertain wait. But a tax lien is a “super lien”, which is why the primary lender will often pay the taxes - so they aren’t bumped from the #1 leinholder postion.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-18 07:01:12

cougar91,

Like any investment, it’s not a casual undertaking. My wife’s cousin ( WPB gold-digger ) goes every year to the auction. It-is-a-madhouse!

My oldest daughter went down every summer vac. from OR to help her work the auction. Lots of shoving & shouting. In recent years though, the yields haven’t been what they were in the past. LOTS of bidders.

 
Comment by Blano
2009-08-18 07:02:05

In certain states the return on your investment can well be worth the risk. I looked at them until Michigan changed the law to a bidding process, which sometimes might drive your ROI down as low as 1 percent.

IIRC Ohio (see Toledo story above) is more generous to investors.

Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 09:46:27

A coworker of mine got involved in some get rich quick scheme involving tax liens. She went to the “free” seminar and bought the $500 book/cassette on how to do it.

Comment by Blano
2009-08-18 13:31:28

Did she end up doing anything???

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Comment by Skip
2009-08-18 13:41:29

Skip

No, never did. I guess you got get up early in the morning or something.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-18 06:03:31

Greenshoots misses mark:

Construction of US homes falls 1 percent in July, missing analysts’ expectations

WASHINGTON (AP) — Construction of new U.S. homes dipped slightly last month, missing expectations, in a sign that the building industry’s recovery from the housing bust is likely to be bumpy and gradual.

The Commerce Department said Tuesday that construction started on homes and apartments fell 1 percent in July to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 581,000 units, from an upwardly revised rate of 587,000 in June. Economists polled by Thomson Reuters expected a pace of 600,000 units.

Builders slammed the brakes on construction after the housing bubble burst, and in April housing starts plunged to the lowest point in a half-century. Then construction began a recovery, rising to the highest level in seven months in June before slipping again last month.

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-18 06:05:26

Deflation didn’t quite get the memo on greenshoots:

Wholesale prices fall more than expected in July, hit record-low over past 12 months

WASHINGTON (AP) — Wholesale prices dropped sharply in July, and over the past 12 months fell by the largest amount in more than six decades of record-keeping.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that wholesale prices dropped 0.9 percent last month. That’s triple the decline economists had expected and was driven by big decreases in both energy and food costs. Over the past 12 months, the prices of goods before they reach store shelves fell 6.8 percent.

Core inflation, which excludes energy and food, also was well-behaved. It dropped 0.1 percent in July, better than 0.1 percent gain economists expected.

The declines in the Producer Price Index showed wholesale inflation pressures were even more subdued than prices at the consumer level. The government last week reported that the Consumer Price Index was unchanged in July and over the past 12 months fell 2.1 percent, the biggest decline in nearly 60 years.

For July, wholesale energy prices fell 2.4 percent after having surged 6.6 percent in June. Gasoline dropped 10.2 percent and home heating oil plunged 11.9 percent.

Food prices at the wholesale level fell 1.5 percent last month, reversing a 1.1 percent rise in June. A big drop in vegetable prices led the overall decline, but beef and egg prices also fell.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 16:35:18

I’m not seeing it at the store. So this is good for the retailers’ profit margin!

Hooray! At least it’s a green shoot for the retailers! (whom we all know operate on the thinnest of profit margins, even though they make millions in profit every year. :roll: )

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 06:21:22

Housing Starts in U.S. Fell on Multi-Family Units

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — Housing starts in the U.S. unexpectedly fell in July, pulled down by multifamily dwellings, while single-family starts which make up most of the industry rose to the highest level since October.

The 1 percent decline in starts to an annual rate of 581,000 was the first drop in three months and followed a 587,000 rate in June, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. Construction of single-family houses, which account for 75 percent of the industry, rose 1.7 percent to a 490,000 rate, today’s report showed.

Single-family home construction has been rising since March, a sign that falling home values and stimulus efforts such as a tax credit for first-time buyers are starting to reverse the housing meltdown that triggered the financial crisis. While the economy is forecast to grow this quarter, foreclosures, tight credit and job losses will temper the recovery.

“It’s still an indication that we’re at a turning point,” Jonathan Basile, an economist at Credit Suisse Holdings Inc. in New York, said before the report. “The housing recovery will look uneven until there’s more visibility in the economy.”

Comment by WT Economist
2009-08-18 06:31:25

“Housing starts in the U.S. unexpectedly fell in July.”

Unexpected by whom?

I think we have a decade in which any and all new housing will be driven by:

a) Unmet demand for housing in some places even as it is abandoned in others.

b) Affluent people who want a new house to their specification, drawing demand away from existing housing that will be abandoned elsewhere.

From a nationwide supply and demand of units point of view, we’ve got more than enough. Add in the excess of floor area per unit and the possibility of subdivision/roomates to cut costs, and we have a ridiculous amont.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:05:55

“Unexpected by whom?”

I am guessing the writer refers to dumbsh!t economists who frequently talk with reporters, but the article leaves this deliberately vague.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-18 08:07:26

a) Unmet demand for housing in some places even as it is abandoned in others.

b) Affluent people who want a new house to their specification, drawing demand away from existing housing that will be abandoned elsewhere.

In the medium- to long-term, I’m quite curious to see A.) what new demographic changes we see as the result of the bust (Continued Rust Belt abandonment? McMansions as Section 8 housing? Exurban flight?); and B.) what percentage of the housing stock built circa 1998-2008 survives at all, whether it survives intact, and how that housing stock is perceived (e.g., Will certain builders be associated in the cultural hivemind with Ford Pinto-like quality, or will those issues be largely forgotten in the passage of time?).

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 06:23:36

Cindy to BHO - “All we are saying, is give peace a chance”:

Next week, Cindy Sheehan will join other like-minded peace activists to have a presence near the expensive resort on Martha’s Vineyard where President Obama will be vacationing the week of August 23-30.

From her home in California, Ms. Sheehan released this statement:

“There are several things that we wish to accomplish with this protest on Martha’s Vineyard.

First of all, no good social or economic change will come about with the continuation or escalation of the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. We simply can’t afford to continue this tragically expensive foreign policy.

Second, we as a movement need to continue calling for an immediate end to the occupations even when there is a Democrat in the Oval Office. There is still no Noble Cause no matter how we examine the policies.

Third, the body bags aren’t taking a vacation and as the US led violence surges in Afghanistan and Pakistan, so are the needless deaths on every side.

And, finally, if the right-wing can force the government to drop any kind of public option or government supported health care, then we need to exert the same kind of pressure to force a speedy end to the occupations.”

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 06:48:46

I’ll give Sheehan 2 points for consistency, all the Dems that were screaming to end the war by electing Obama, “brillan por su aucencia” (are spotlighted by their absence).

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-08-18 06:56:34

I wonder what color burka she will choose in islamic extremism reaches the U.S.?

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 07:06:45

LoL, our Christian extremism will fend it off.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 07:38:25

they’ll more likely ‘team up’—they have the same basic beliefs

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Comment by exeter
2009-08-18 09:25:11

“they’ll more likely ‘team up’—they have the same basic beliefs”.

BINGO…

And the fundies just hate it when the fact is mentioned.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 11:16:45

they’ll more likely ‘team up’—they have the same basic beliefs

Testify! (Haha! Get it?)
It is SO true, though, slothy. I grew up in the red rocks of southern Utarr, in a very small town, mostly Mormons. I mean, man, where to even start?
You coulda swapped out much of the bishopric (that’s like a Mormon pastor + pals) for any ol’ regular Taliban headman + pals and none of us female individuals would have noticed much difference once you shaved them.
What! Wimmin-folk larnin’ to read? Wearing shoes? Gettin all uppity? Heavenly Father/Allah’s totally agin’ that!

(Now, this was a special environment, it is true. I’ve heard that many Mormon men are okay with wimmin learning to read and wear shoes. I just didn’t observe many of those fanciful creatures while IIII was growing up. )

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 14:53:27

I’m going to need to agree with you on this one OG, though mostly due to the brief exposure I’ve had to fundamentalist sects that apparently missed the announcement of an end to polygamy in 1878.

Maybe rural Southern Utahhrns just have to much close association with these types? Or maybe it’s just an adverse effect of the fallout from the Nevada test site?

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 16:40:51

My mom was into fundy Christianity.

No difference at all except for the beards and burkas. And maybe the speaking in tongues part.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 17:00:40

Maybe rural Southern Utahhrns just have to much close association with these types? Or maybe it’s just an adverse effect of the fallout from the Nevada test site?

I don’t know what causes it. But it’s real.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 17:12:17

Crud, I thought I was going to trick you into revealing that you actually have 6 toes, or a third eye, or a forked tongue. Oh well, maybe next time.

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-18 07:59:44

LoL, our Christian extremism will fend it off.

I wouldn’t be so sure - the Christian Taliban has been none too happy with this whole “women’s rights” thing from the get-go.

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Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:12:04

Ah - the good old days of 1800’s America - burquas, and 40 lashes for women who let their hair show.

:roll:

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-18 10:24:56

True packman. And the angry authoritarians posing as “good Christians” would love to see it’s return.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:51:57

True packman. And the angry authoritarians posing as “good Christians” would love to see it’s return. The strawmen are fighting the hobgoblins. This discussion is excessively tedious.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 11:23:48

Ah - the good old days of 1800’s America - burquas, and 40 lashes for women who let their hair show.

Whaddaya mean, ‘1800’s’? Go hang out in some of the small towns there in the red rocks of southern Utarr, northern AZ, 4-corners area, and you’ll see the same attitudes right freakin’ now.
Yes, really. I would know.

(….and it’s not ‘tedious’ when you’re a girl, and you’re living it.)

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 11:54:58

Whaddaya mean, ‘1800’s’? Go hang out in some of the small towns there in the red rocks of southern Utarr, northern AZ, 4-corners area, and you’ll see the same attitudes right freakin’ now.
Yes, really. I would know.

Been there several times - that’s perhaps my favorite area in the country; I proposed to my now-wife on top of Cedar Mesa in fact.

I didn’t see any women wearing burqas.

Not doubting that there is a general attitude of belittlement of women there, and that’s bad, but let’s be realistic here. We’re not talking about near the extreme, and we’re talking about an extremely small sample of general American society. Comparing that with what exists in the Muslim world is kind of like comparing the General Sherman redwood with a tomato plant and saying “they’re practically the same” because they’re both plants.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 12:12:44

Whaddaya mean, ‘1800’s? Go hang out in some of the small towns
Hemet, San Jacinto,CA.

And I do know. Amazing the tunnel vision.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 12:32:23

We’re not talking about near the extreme, and we’re talking about an extremely small sample of general American society.

This is true, packy. (And thank goodness, too.) I shoulda been more specific about this. I said in an above post that this area was ‘a special environment’. Oh, it is. :roll:
However, it doesn’t FEEL like a ’small sample’ of American society when you’re a girl and you’re living in it.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 13:05:54

Yeah I can imagine. Glad you got out of that. It’s a shame that such a beautiful area is generally inhabited by folks who are a bit… off kilter.

(and I’m not talking about Anasazi or Navajo)

I didn’t realize actually that there were that many Mormons in the southern part of the state - I thought most (all?) were up north around SLC. Guess not?

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 14:57:08

Utahhr’s Dixie has that nickname because Brigham Young sent settlement pioneers south to grow warm weather crops, including cotton.

My GGGpa was one of those settlers, a founder of both Parowan, UT and Snowflake, AZ, as well as the more or less failed San Juan mission.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 17:47:26

My GGGpa was one of those settlers, a founder of both Parowan, UT and Snowflake, AZ, as well as the more or less failed San Juan mission.

Really? I got peoples from both those. We’re probably related. Amazin’.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 18:03:45

No doubt we are. If we ever manage to get to a meet-up at the same time we’ll need to figure it out.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 19:35:39

BTW, may I call you , “cuz”?

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 23:00:53

I think she’s left the cult.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 22:17:55

Leaving one’s religion changes one’s bloodline?

 
 
Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-08-18 12:50:15

I’d suggest you folks who compare Christians to Islamic extremists need to get a clue. On the Today Show they did a report from a womens prison in Afghanistan. Why were the women there (with their children)? For the most part it seemed they had run away from their husbands (after getting the sh*t beat out of them), or adultery (in reality they were raped). Yes these are prisonable offenses in Afghanistan. And men can legally withhold food from their wives for refusing to have sex. I just don’t see how you can compare the two.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 15:14:57

It’s precisely on issues like opposition to women’s and gay rights that they find their common ground. Efforts to ban marital rape, genital mutilation, etc. have been opposed by fundamentalist Christian and Islamic groups and governments in the UN.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-18 16:45:53

Not Christians, Muddyfoot, just the extreme Christians of which we have more than you think.

Any and all religions should be respected, but the extremists deserve nothing but scorn.

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 08:04:42

Oh when those sheiks
Come marching in,
Oh when those sheiks
come marching in.
You want to be in that burka
When those sheiks come marching in.

Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-18 08:23:21

LOL, that was good CB.

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Comment by dude
2009-08-18 08:23:37

“I wonder what color burka she will choose in islamic extremism reaches the U.S.?”

You say that as if the fighting in the ‘Stan and Iraq are actually being prosecuted as a war, and not a paramilitary police action.

If we really want to be at war with militant Islam, let’s do it, but let’s REALLY do it. The current method is half-baked and will not end in a lasting peace.

Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:53:09

will not end in a lasting peace. Only the grave provides that. We the living just have to make “unlasting” peace as we go along.

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Comment by dude
2009-08-18 11:50:53

I think we made a lasting peace with Tojo’s war machine.

 
 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 09:49:51

“I wonder what color burka she will choose in islamic extremism reaches the U.S.?”

Wow! You really think Islamic extremists can take over the USA? I wasn’t even aware that their navy is big enough to send over the millions of troops needed.

Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:54:28

I wasn’t even aware that their navy is big enough to send over the millions of troops needed. Idiots have already taken the US over, and they didn’t need no steenkin’ navy to do that.

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Comment by Northeastener
2009-08-18 13:07:29

I wasn’t even aware that their navy is big enough to send over the millions of troops needed.

Who said you needed a navy or even a standing army to take over a country? All it takes is a misguided immigration policy… see France if you need an example.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 06:27:08

The last paragraph says it all, see how simple it is. Why didn’t we think of that?

China goes house hunting to rev up economy…

BEIJING (Reuters) - The Chinese government is attempting to pass the baton of growth from state-funded infrastructure investment to the private housing sector, a risky but necessary move to sustain the economic recovery.

Construction cranes sprouting in big cities, busy furniture shops and soaring property sales all show that the transition is going smoothly so far, though officials are wary that house prices may rise too high, too quickly.

China’s biggest listed property developer, Vanke (000002.SZ), lifted its housing starts target for this year by 45 percent, while its rival Poly Real Estate (600048.SS) said sales in January-July rose 143 percent from a year earlier.

On the ground, construction firms, big and small, are trying to meet the demand, last years’ downturn now a distant memory.

“It’s been a long time since we’ve had a day off. Several months, I think, though I can’t remember exactly,” said Zhang Minghui, owner of a small building company in Beijing.

“From late last year to early this year, we basically had nothing to do. Everybody was careful with their money because of the crisis and so projects got delayed.”

Zhang cut his staff to three in November but is now back up to a crew of 14.

The economic importance of the property sector in China is hard to overstate. Investment in residential housing accounted for about 10 percent of gross domestic product before a property boom turned to bust in 2008, roughly the same as the contribution from the country’s vaunted export factories.

The government’s first steps last year to revive the stalling Chinese economy were to offer tax cuts to encourage home purchases, followed by rules to ease access to mortgages.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 07:43:01

housing bubble—Last refuge of a faltering economy?

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-18 07:43:33

wmbz,

How is this bad news? Given the circumstances, I think it’s everything we could have hoped for. There had to be a pay off some where down the road. Now they’ve developed enough economic inertia to lift themselves out of abject poverty.

After years of oursourcing and trade deficits, they’re finally in a position to create some organic consumption.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:53:08

“The government’s first steps last year to revive the stalling Chinese economy were to offer tax cuts to encourage home purchases, followed by rules to ease access to mortgages.”

Red China’s housing market sounds as though it is almost as heavily manipulated as is America’s!

 
Comment by rentor
2009-08-18 11:35:45

Does this mean we will have shortage of Chinese drywall. Talk about green shoot.

Comment by yensoy
2009-08-18 18:25:07

No such luck. Chinese homes are built of concrete - the cheap drywall crap is reserved for exports.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 19:05:45

unfortunately they don’t put much rebar in the concrete-
never a good idea in an earthquake zone

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:24:23

Funny how this San Diego Union-Tribune article never mentions (as did its rival paper, The North County Times) how there are something like 27,500 homes currently in delinquent status for North San Diego County, alone. When many of these eventually move through the foreclosure pipeline into REO status, this just might put a damper on the budding San Diego home price “rally.”

Principles of objective reporting would seem to suggest including this sort of detail in a major urban newspaper’s article about the state of the local real estate market. But some reporters appear to perceive their role as providing cheer leading services to the real estate market rather than offering objective information to their readers.

County home prices continue slow climb
July sales up 11% from a year earlier
By Roger Showley
Union-Tribune Staff Writer

2:00 a.m. August 18, 2009

San Diego County home prices continued their cautious comeback last month, clocking in at a median of $320,000, up from the recession’s low of $280,000 in January.

Sales passed the 3,800 mark for the first time in three years, indicating buyers are increasingly motivated to grab bargains while they last. The number of sales last month marked an 11 percent increase from a year earlier.

Rick Hoffman, president of Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage, said his 1,500 agents in 24 offices report more sales and interest in move-up houses. Previously, most interest focused on lower-priced foreclosures and short-sales — homes sold for less than their mortgage balance.

He even took heart in the news that four multimillion-dollar homes sold in La Jolla last week.

“I’m starting to feel pretty bullish that, in fact, we’ll see a very active fall, maybe through the holiday season, because of the momentum going in that direction,” Hoffman said.

According to the San Diego Association of Realtors, yesterday’s inventory of active listings stood at 8,889, a 2½-month supply at July’s resales pace. At this time last month, the inventory was 13,268.

But Erik Weichelt, association president, said the listings have declined partly because of a change in definition. In cases where lenders have to approve a short-sale, those properties are now considered as contingent sales and no longer count as active.

“It still means we don’t have enough inventory,” Weichelt said. “We’ve got to get more inventory.”

But with prices down 38 percent from the 2005 peak, nondistressed owners apparently are not seeing this as an opportunity to sell.

“A lot of people don’t want to sell because the price is so much lower than it was a few years ago,” said Gary Kent of Re/Max Associates. “What we’re seeing is people who need to sell or have owned a long time.”

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 08:55:23

In the Palmdale 93551 zipcode where I currently reside there are 269 houses listed on the MLS. Realtytrac shows 623 REO properties in the same zipcode. If we were to assume (a stretch) that all other sales inventory not on MLS and the portion of REO in transition from trustees sale to market cancel each other out then the REO shadow inventory is 2.3X listings.

Is this similar to your data, PB?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:37:14

Yep. The foreclosure listing web sites (e.g. ForeclosureTown dot com) now show more listings in North San Diego County zip codes than the MLS.

Funny, isn’t it, how the lazy San Diego Union-Tribune writers perpetually miss the real story?

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 10:39:30

REIC ad dollars and the truth mix like oil and water.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 11:54:50

You would think they cared enough about their reputation as an information source to avoid getting out-reported by tinfoil-hat-wearing bloggers, wouldn’t you?

 
 
 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-08-18 09:46:22

“I’m starting to feel pretty bullish that, in fact, we’ll see a very active fall, maybe through the holiday season, because of the momentum going in that direction,” Hoffman said.

People aren’t making “back to school” purchases and won’t be buying much for Christmas, but they will be buying houses?

 
Comment by cactus
2009-08-18 11:57:49

I better buy now or be priced out altogether…….

I can rent in N San Diego Co for many years and move to Tucson and buy 4x the house when I finally have had enough. At least thats what I tell the family after looking at some homes for sale in Poway and Rancho Bernardo last weekend.

But Phoenix is no more forever too much smog and intense heat.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:28:19

I thunked the “credit market emergency” happened and ended last fall?

Fed, Treasury extend emergency credit program
By Edmund L. Andrews
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

2:00 a.m. August 18, 2009

WASHINGTON — With banks still tightening their lending standards, and borrowers skittish about taking on debt, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury extended one of their main emergency credit programs — the Term Asset-Backed Securities Lending Facility, or TALF — for several more months.

Despite signs of an economic recovery, and vast government assistance to financial institutions, the Fed reported yesterday that banks were still tightening their lending standards and did not expect to reverse course until the second half of next year.

In the Fed’s latest survey of senior loan officers, about 30 percent of banks said they were still tightening standards for both consumer and business loans. That was a smaller percentage than the Fed’s survey in April, but it meant that, on balance, banks were still clamping down as they worried about the economic outlook and tried to conserve capital.

About 55 percent of banks said their lending standards for business loans would remain tougher than long-term average levels until the second half of 2010. A similar percentage predicted that standards for prime home mortgages would remain tougher than average for another year, and about 40 percent said mortgage standards would be stricter than average for the foreseeable future.

At the same time, consumers and businesses are still reluctant to borrow. About 40 percent of banks reported that demand for loans by big corporations was weakening, though that was a smaller percentage than in April. More than half of banks said demand for loans from small businesses was weakening.

On the consumer side, low interest rates have spurred demand for home mortgages, mostly by people refinancing their loans. But the Fed reported that mortgage demand increased much more slowly in July than in April — probably because mortgage rates inched slightly higher.

While banks appear more willing to lend, borrowers are less willing to borrow,” said Paul Dales, an economist at Capital Economics. “This may be the economic equivalent of leading a horse to water, but not being able to make it drink.

You can hand money to a banker, but you can’t make him lend it.

You can offer money to a consumer, but you can’t make him spend it.

Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-18 07:53:59

Last year’s “emergency” is this year’s “the new normal.”

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 12:16:33

Last year was last administrations ‘emergency’.

Can we please just fire all the crooks that were in last time?

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-08-18 08:45:57

You can hand a banker a risk free gift, but he’ll still try to spin it some other way.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32460267

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-08-18 09:49:33

“While banks appear more willing to lend, borrowers are less willing to borrow,” said Paul Dales, an economist at Capital Economics.

If that were true, why do they keep cutting credit lines for even their most credit worthy borrowers?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 07:58:23

This sounds like a healthy California real estate market recovery :-)

Brett Arends’ ROI
Aug 17, 2009, 7:00 a.m. EST
No light yet at end of California real-estate tunnel
Commentary: Despite some claims, situation actually may be getting worse

By Brett Arends, WSJ dot com

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Is California’s real-estate crash finally hitting bottom?

Some people think it might have.

But color me skeptical.

OK, there is some good news.

Subprime blight areas in the Central Valley and the Inland Empire, which led the crash, have been collapsing at a slightly slower pace recently.

According to Zillow, the real-estate information company, median prices in Stockton — a contender for the title of Subprime Central — have been falling by a little over 2% a month for the past three months. That may sound pretty bad — and it is pretty bad — but everything needs context: Last winter the rate was more than 3% a month, and early last year the rate was nearly 4%

In places like Modesto, San Bernardino and Riverside, the story is similar.

Stan Humphries, Zillow’s chief economist, sees grounds for optimism. “It points to a bottoming of the market,” he says.

Mark Hanson, an independent (and bearish) real-estate analyst, agrees that there are some signs of life. He says there’s a lot of bottom-fishing going on. In the worst hit areas, the cheaper homes are actually being snapped up right now. “Supply is at a multi-year low,” he says. “It’s down 60% from last year. You’re seeing 15 offers for every house.

The main buyers are first-timers, armed with their one-off $8,000 taxpayer gift, and investors.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:29:49

It sounds like the PTB’s housing bubble reflation efforts are inadvertently turning out to be heavily investor dependent. I wonder how that is going to turn out?

Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-08-18 10:02:30

$8K tax gift leveraged at 10% = $80K extra purchasing power. So a bunch of fools armed with $80K extra purchasing power are bidding up prices again. Once the tax credit expires and all first time knife catchers have a home, prices will continue the march towards an equilibrium. In a year or two many of the first time knife catchers will join the ranks of the foreclosure “victims”. Since you can use the $8K credit as part of the 10% downpayment we’re essentially back to the days of no/low downpayment. I suppose our politicians are slow learners.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 10:14:55

“Once the tax credit expires and all first time knife catchers have a home, prices will continue the march towards an equilibrium.”

Why do people keep living under the delusion this $8K credit will expire? The only reason I can even think of for the gubmint to pretend they are going to let it expire is for the psychological bounce that will result when the masses are surprised by the continuation of the program.

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Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-18 11:28:02

If it never expires there is no sense of urgency. Right now people are buying houses because it WILL expire. If not, people will just wait a bit for prices to return to “normal”.
What most people do not understand, is that even with that 80K “reflation” houses have still dropped quite a it (16% a year in my recolection), and once it is either done, or continued, there is no guarantee that the prices will not continue to fall.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 12:09:11

The sense of urgency can also just be instilled by the *threat* of expiry.

A beer says it doesn’t end up expiring in November.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 12:18:20

“A beer says it doesn’t end up expiring in November.”???

In San Diego for a round up again and you get the pitchers?

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 13:08:00

Would love to, though I’m in the east and traveling’s not so easy these days - doh. If you get around DC though…

(and you can buy :-) )

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:16:21

Once the tax credit expires

That’ll happen about the same time inflation exceeds 10%. (which may well happen)

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-08-18 08:49:51

They already make them, they just charge $20,000

Extra8/18/2009 12:01 AM ET
A $4,000 car from GM?
The company sees a market for an ultra-low-cost compact, a segment automakers are focusing on after the plunge in sales in North America and Western Europe.

By The Wall Street Journal
General Motors is targeting the emerging ultra-low-cost car market with plans for a compact for around $4,000, possibly producing it in Asia.

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 08:58:46

Give me a C4C voucher for $4500 and I’ll take one!

Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:56:12

Give me a C4C voucher No C4C voucher for you! — The C4C Nazi

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 15:02:39

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=68074&catid=153

Apparently, “No Cash for Clunkers Leaves Some Dealers Stuck”, also.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 09:32:00

Ah yes, the 5% solution:

Let’s juxtapose two stories. First, from Bloomberg:

Aug. 14 (Bloomberg) — More than 150 publicly traded U.S. lenders own nonperforming loans that equal 5 percent or more of their holdings, a level that former regulators say can wipe out a bank’s equity and threaten its survival.

Ok. Now how about this one?

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Delinquency rates for loans and leases at U.S. banks increased to a record 6.49% in the second quarter from 5.58% in the first quarter, the Federal Reserve announced Monday.

So let me see if I get this right.

At 5% of non-performing loans a bank is at risk of being insolvent.

But the entire banking system in The United States had its non-performing loan ratio increase from 5.58% in the first quarter to 6.49% in the second, a record, and higher than the 5% level at which the survival of a bank(ing system) is threatened with collapse.

Hmmmm…. So should we take from this that the entire US Banking System is about to collapse?

This much we know for certain - you’re being screwed - systematically - to cover the sins of these banksters who made loans to people who they had no reason to believe could pay:

Being in debt is about to get a lot more expensive for millions of Americans. Credit card issuers have been rushing to raise rates in advance of this Thursday, when the first provisions of the Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act (CARD) will go into effect, with other protections starting in February 2010.

Right. Including those who are good credit risks.

This is the problem with allowing the blatant and outrageous fraud in our system to continue: Those who are prudent, who have done only good and not bad things, get reamed repeatedly and are forced, at gunpoint, to pay for the sins of those who committed that fraud.

Yet we, as Americans, permit this.

We absorb 20, 25, 30% interest rates (while the banks borrow at zero) so the bank executives who knowingly granted credit to those who could not pay, then sold worthless securities to investors, do not go to prison for fraud.

We pay more than $30 billion in overdraft charges and allow banks to “shuffle” deposits and withdrawals to generate the maximum in these fines so that the bank executives who are knowingly mis-marking “assets” at higher than their true values can “cover” their sin and do not go to prison for fraud.

We pay the FDIC “assessments” and “loans” from Treasury, as taxpayers and banking customers, so that the FDIC can repay depositors after it absorbs a loss that it should not have incurred - a loss that happened because OTS, OCC and the FDIC failed to close banks in a timely manner that were cooking the books when they either knew or will willfully blind to the control fraud taking place at these institutions.
(From K. Denninger)

Comment by polly
2009-08-18 10:52:47

Well, there is a difference between “nonperforming loans that equal 5 percent or more of their holdings” and 5% of loans being non-performing. If the nonperforming loans are for smaller than average amounts, then you could have a tons of nonperforming loans and still not have the nonperforming loans be 5% or more of the holdings.

That being said, it is still a disturbing number and it would be nice to get a distribution chart on how many other banks have nonperforming loans at 4.5% of holdings, 4% of holdings, 3.5% etc.

Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 10:57:54

I think the 5% figure is just what banks are admitting to. There is so much they are not admitting to. See Wm. K. Black’s video I mentioned yesterday.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 11:58:28

I always liked the title to his book…

The Best Way to Rob a Bank is to Own One: How Corporate Executives and Politicians Looted the S&L Industry. 2005

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 13:28:35

We’ll soon need an update of that book to explain the TARP.

 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 13:43:32

Great video. I played it last night and listened to the whole thing. I like that guy. I think he missed the question about gov’t pushing people into homes they can’t afford, but it makes sense that it’s not the big part of the problem.

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Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 14:10:05

Polly,

That’s what I was thinking. I don’t know if 5% of loans represents 1% of income or if it represents 10%. So the statistic is really meaningless.

 
Comment by kirisdad
2009-08-18 15:06:16

It takes an attorney to pick up on that nuance.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 13:30:27

+1 cobalt

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:35:25

The private sector is offering a solution where the Obamanomic Dream Team’s remedies have thus far fallen flat: Using “nonviolent terrorism” to gently encourage mortgage lender CEOs to offer favorable mortgage restructuring terms.

Don’t forget to bring along your pitch fork when you join the march on the bankster’s front lawn :-)

(This item was featured in this morning’s edition of American Public Media’s Marketplace, but I have no link yet…)

SAVE THE DREAM TOUR

NACA’s Save the Dream has been an incredible success with over 180,000 participants and many thousands having their mortgage restructured with interest rates permanently reduced to as low as 2%. NACA has legally binding agreements with all the major lenders/servicers to achieve this. All of NACA’s services are FREE.

Comment by packman
2009-08-18 10:24:25

Save The Dream?

How many people wake up in a cold sweat after “dreaming” of a red-eyed man chasing them with a pitchfork, and then think “what a pleasant dream - I’d like to go back and relive that!”

Not so wise, perhaps?

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-18 10:44:39

So they got a loan for 2%. Great rate. It still doesn’t change the fact that many of the borrowers are hundreds of thousands of dollars underwater.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 10:52:00

Now that they can afford their monthly payments, who cares about those massive principle balances? Nothing there that forty years of future inflation can’t whittle down to size…

(Never mind the abundant recent statistical evidence that deflation is already underway…)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 12:59:03

Is it possible for renters to participate in the NACA’s “March with Pitch Fork” activities?

NACA event draws thousands to GWCC seeking foreclosure relief
August 11, 4:45 PM
Atlanta Mortgage Examiner
Leslie Davis

Thousands of homeowners facing foreclosure lined up for the second day in a row at the Georgia World Congress Center seeking assistance to refinance their mortgage. The Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America is sponsoring the event. The agency works with lenders to restructure loans and lock in low rates. Some participants have reported receiving 2% interest rates. NACA projects that they will be able to help 80% of those who apply.

NACA is a nationally recognized organization specializing in permanently reducing interest rates to an affordable payment for thousands of owner-occupant non-investor homeowners. All services are free.

NACA is doing the nationwide Save the Dream Tour. The tour has already been extremely successful with over 35,000 participants in Cleveland, 45,000 in Chicago and the same in St. Louis. We are receiving same day solutions for thousands of homeowners with many having their interest rates permanently reduced to 4%, 3%, and 2% saving hundreds of dollars a month and some over a thousand dollars. NACA’s Home Save Program is open to everyone regardless of their income or the mortgage amount based on the below requirements.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 19:40:54

Here is the link to the story which caught my ear bright and early this morning. The story doesn’t actually mention pitch forks, but I suspect they might help get the workouts done.

I have to confess to feeling a degree of revulsion towards the idea of people who willingly signed a contract to borrow money on certain terms showing up on the CEO’s front lawn to implicitly threaten violence in order to coerce a change in the terms of their contracts. The outcome hardly an agreement freely entered by the two sides.

‘Save The Dream’ Tour Helps Troubled Homeowners

by Odette Yousef
August 18, 2009 from PBA

As foreclosures continue to mount, a group called Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America is trying to help. Organizers are holding Save the Dream sessions across the country to help homeowners figure out how to get their mortgages restructured.

YOUSEF: Bruce Marks is the CEO of NACA - the Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America. He says 80 percent of the people who show up get their loans modified for free. The group restructures the existing loan by determining an affordable payment. They then get the interest rate and/or principle permanently reduced. Marks launched the 10-city Save the Dream tour because he thinks the federal program isn’t working. He says President Obama’s financial incentives haven’t compelled lenders or servicers to help homeowners.

Mr. BRUCE MARKS (CEO, Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America): We want him to adapt the NACA standard that says stop pleading, begging, and bribing these lenders and servicers. Require them to do it, because if you don’t, the job won’t get done.

YOUSEF: NACA has legally binding agreements with all the major private U.S. lenders. It got those through what Marks calls nonviolent bank terrorism, showing up at the homes of CEOs of major lenders with hordes of protesters, and it’s worked. One hundred representatives of these institutions traveled with the tour working out agreements on the spot.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 09:50:35

Dumb question of the day:

How are the PTB’s housing bubble reflation efforts panning out so far? Is there any evidence the hair-of-the-dog cure has successfully alleviated the housing bust hangover?

Comment by Kim
2009-08-18 10:41:00

I’ve been seeing a lot of listings with a “contingent” status, which usually means there is a contract and both parties are working on filling the contingencies (i.e. mortgage approval, etc.). I thought it very peculiar, since some of those listings never seemed to close and others were still actively being advertised on Craigslist, etc.

Just today I realized that some short sales may be listed as “contingent”, even though they are “active” listings, simply as a way of warning buyers that the bank will need to approve the offer and that will take extra time.

So, no… no evidence here.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 11:00:06

Here in central S.Carolina it appears we have hit a stagnate situation. Slow sales, fewer listings, prices have dropped, but no longer. Foreclosures sitting, and plenty of incomplete developments, on the low, medium and high end. So I would say the gubmint hand outs are having little effect, here.

A real-a-tor told us last week, that he knows plenty of folks that want to sell, buy don’t have the cash to take to the table. Owe more that it’s worth.

Also plenty still holding out waiting for a miracle, or change they can believe in.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 13:55:12

The success of bubble reflation efforts in Southern California seems to be perpetually challenged by steady drumbeat of news that home prices are falling. But then propagandists have a way of never letting the facts interfere with their messages.

Southern California Home Prices Fall on Foreclosures (Update2)
By Dan Levy

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — Southern California house and condominium prices fell 23 percent in July from a year earlier as foreclosures dominated sales, MDA DataQuick said.

The median price dropped to $268,000 from $348,000 a year earlier, the San Diego-based research company said today in a statement. The number of homes sold increased almost 19 percent from a year earlier to 24,104 for Los Angeles, Riverside, San Diego, Ventura, San Bernardino and Orange counties.

There’s still quite a bit of distress out there,” John Walsh, Dataquick’s president, said in a statement. “Even if we are at or near bottom, history suggests we could bounce along that bottom for quite a while.

Foreclosures accounted for 43 percent of sales, down from 45 percent in June and from a peak of 57 percent in February, MDA DataQuick said. Foreclosures as a proportion of all sales hit the lowest since June 2008. Homes priced at $500,000 and above were 20 percent of transactions, compared with 15 percent in March.

The July median price rose 1 percent from June, the third consecutive monthly increase, according to MDA DataQuick. That was due in part to a larger share of home purchases financed with loans of more than $417,000. About 15 percent of transactions involved such loans, the highest in 11 months.

Values are likely to fall more in expensive coastal areas as employers cut jobs in the recession and homeowners reduce asking prices, said MDA Dataquick analyst Andrew LePage.

Further to Fall

Sellers are getting more realistic,” LePage said in an interview. “It looks like prices are coming down.

Indeed! This sucker is going down.

And recent history (1988-2006) suggests that once a housing bust is underway, price declines can persist for up to a decade or more, especially if government market distortions prevent a quick return to equilibrium. Note that water towards the bottom of a waterfall does not stop falling — it just falls more slowly than it did higher up.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 19:32:31

“…price declines can persist for up to a decade or more,…”

Better example: Japanese housing price decline (1990-still going…)

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-18 15:41:18

“A real-a-tor told us last week, that he knows plenty of folks that want to sell, buy don’t have the cash to take to the table. Owe more that it’s worth. ”

We’ve been told that too. Inventory’s low because those that want to head south or move closer to family are waiting for the market to bounce back.

I had a most interesting discussion w/a lender last week. She told me she’s been straight out busy since the beginning of the summer but most were refi’s, not new purchases. She then went on to talk about all the people that have called her in tears this summer because they’ve gotten in trouble just a few short years after purchase. I asked her if it was because of lay-offs. No she said. They were screwed from the start taking on more than they could chew. She then went on to say that she tries to counsel new buyers to take only what they could cashflow, not what the bank had approved. She said there weren’t too many that appeared to understand budgeting, many were young and eager to buy in. Voices from the front row.

So much for it’s different here.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 09:53:38

Earnings data help stocks regain ground after drop
Stocks rebound after sharp drop despite mostly weak housing data, mixed retail earnings.
Tuesday August 18, 2009, 12:03 pm EDT

NEW YORK (AP) — Some better-than-expected retail earnings reports are drawing investors back into the stock market.

Stocks rebounded Tuesday from the previous day’s selloff, with major indicators rising nearly 1 percent. Investors were still wary about consumer spending and the economy as a whole, but found enough good news in retailers’ reports and the Commerce Department’s latest take on the housing market to justify the comeback.

Some bounce back was to be expected after Monday’s big drop, which took the Dow Jones industrials down 186 points on growing fears that nervous consumers won’t spend enough to lift the economy into recovery.

The earnings reports from retailers showed that American consumers are still shy about spending, but results weren’t quite as bad as analysts expected and that helped calm some of investors’ nerves.

Home Depot Inc. said its second-quarter profit fell 7 percent, but its adjusted results beat Wall Street’s expectations, as cost cuts partly offset weak revenue. The world’s largest home improvement retailer also lifted its forecast for full-year earnings.

Target Corp.’s quarterly profit also fell but it surpassed analyst estimates. And TJX Cos. said its second-quarter profit rose 31 percent as its discount-oriented stores continued to lure in cost-conscious shoppers. Not all the reports were positive, though. Luxury department store Saks Inc. said its loss widened from a year earlier.

Meanwhile, the Commerce Department reported that construction of new homes and apartments fell 1 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 581,000 units, from an upwardly revised rate of 587,000 in June. Economists polled by Thomson Reuters expected a pace of 600,000 units.

There was some good news in the report, however. Construction of single-family homes rose 1 percent to the highest level since October 2008. It was the fifth straight monthly increase.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 10:07:47

“Always love your country — but never trust your government!

- Robert Novak

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 10:12:34

Candidates for high office since at least the time of Ronald Raygun have achieved great success with demonizing the very institutions they aspire to lead.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 12:21:12

he sure did, pb.
If they can’t get into the Country Club, then they hate it.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-18 13:49:17

Uh, Reagan did get into the country club. But he was still principled enough to opposed most of what it stood for.

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Comment by exeter
2009-08-18 14:17:15

Raygun was “principled” enough to oppose it meaning that no other president prior to and subsquent to Raygun?

Principles, freedom and morals…. the vague buzzwords that are the foundation of a twisted language.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 14:46:46

“But he was still principled enough to opposed most of what it stood for.”

Or at least smart enough to replace honest taxation (with a progressive tax structure) with the stealthy and regressive inflation tax (good for Wall Street types located where the helicopter drops of liquidity land, not so good for Main Street).

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 15:23:22

PB, surely you have your decades mixed up. The big inflation was Nixon-Ford-Carter, wasn’t it? Didn’t it begin to abate under Reagan/Volcker? (You’re the economist, I could be wrong.) Wasn’t “Whip Inflation Now” a Reagan slogan?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 16:11:22

“Whip Inflation Now” was a Ford slogan.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 16:58:58

“PB, surely you have your decades mixed up.”

Actually, I confess to be mixed up on the definition of inflation. For instance, if a company’s share price goes up by, say, 50 percent over the course of a few months, that is a price increase, right?

But what if the whole country’s stock market goes up by 50 percent over a few month’s time? Is that inflation?

I guess that is not inflation, but rather a ‘wealth effect.’ So perhaps I should change my terminology to ‘wealth effect taxation’ — the Fed’s liquidity injections to pull the economy out of crisis seem to inadvertently mainly benefit strong hands who can hold on to their asset portfolios when weak hands are forced to liquidate.

Repeat this pattern through a few crises, and pretty soon you have a much larger gap between the untaxed (wealthy) and the wealth-effect taxed (unwealthy).

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-18 17:49:45

Oh you mean the Reagan that promised a conservative revolution, vowing to slash the size of government, radically scale back entitlements, and deploy the powers of the presidency in pursuit of socially and culturally conservative goals and failed.

Federal government expanded on his watch. The conservative desire to outlaw abortion was never seriously pursued. Reagan broke with the hardliners in his administration and compromised with the Soviets on arms control. His assault on entitlements never materialized; instead he saved Social Security in 1983. And he repeatedly ignored the fundamental conservative dogma that taxes should never be raised.

In 1982 alone, he signed into law not one but two major tax increases. The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act (TEFRA) raised taxes by $37.5 billion per year and the Highway Revenue Act raised the gasoline tax by another $3.3 billion.

In 1983, Reagan signed legislation raising the Social Security tax rate. This is a tax increase that lives with us still, since it initiated automatic increases in the taxable wage base. As a consequence, those with moderately high earnings see their payroll taxes rise every single year.

In 1984, Reagan signed another big tax increase in the Deficit Reduction Act. This raised taxes by $18 billion per year or 0.4 percent of GDP. A similar-sized tax increase today would be about $44 billion.

The Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 raised taxes yet again. Even the Tax Reform Act of 1986, which was designed to be revenue-neutral, contained a net tax increase in its first 2 years. And the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987 raised taxes still more.

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2009-08-18 19:14:11

“… the SPIN goes on….”

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 21:35:25

SFOgal, that was eloquent.
Precise and accurate.

Funny how those who still have a
‘Gipper crush’ don’t see, or want
to acknowledge what was really
wrought during the administration.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-18 21:41:45

I wish I could take credit for that.

I did a little research and copied and pasted the information. The information is out there if people would do a little research.

 
 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-18 12:50:49

Always love your country — but never trust your government!

I’d add never trust corporate power or the elite. As long as we have a democracy there is atleast some chance for a person to affect gov. There really isn’t much difference between a gov that runs everything for its benefit vs a corporate elite that runs the gov.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 12:54:11

Concentration of wealth and power is very bad for democracy.

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 10:28:32

One Hundred Years Ago

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was comprised of these dozen issues in 1909:

Amalgamated Copper
American Car & Foundry
American Smelting & Refining
American Sugar
Colorado Fuel & Iron
General Electric Company
National Lead
Peoples Gas
U.S. Rubber
U.S. Rubber first pfd.
U.S. Steel
U.S. Steel pfd.

Constantly replacing failing and fading companies on the list (now grown to the DJIA 30) has, over time, grossly overstated its measurement of the true economy and industrial performance, IMHO.

Comment by packman
2009-08-18 11:10:38

Sorry, but that’s flawed logic (that’s been discussed countless times in countless places). A strong economy is not static like that - the economy itself includes replacement of weaker companies with stronger ones, thus so should a gauge of the economy.

Not saying the gauge isn’t flawed, but to make it statically attached to a given set of companies would be a great flaw in and of itself.

By that same logic - someone’s who gets laid off at 35 has an ended career, even if they go to work for, and are more successful at, another company, or found their own company.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 11:44:04

“Sorry, but that’s flawed logic (that’s been discussed countless times in countless places).”

I didn’t posit a syllogism. I offered my opinion. If I had offered the opinion that the Dow understated growth in the economy, would you be inclined to refute that? You seem to be presenting the type of argument, for example, that each of the fifty states should change their borders and names every so often because there are people being born, dying, and moving around. Is it “flawed logic” to keep 50 states?

The DJIA thirty stocks by definition are a “managed” index.

Being able to retract your bets from the starting gate and re-place them on horses pulling ahead at the last turn wouldn’t improve your winnings? Again IMHO it would.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 15:14:32

Get back to me after you’ve done the regression for what “buying the Dow” would give you if you’d invested $1000 in 1909.

Comment by packman
2009-08-18 20:00:37

Can you post the numbers from the regression you’ve done/seen? I assume such regression included switching investments whenever the DJI components changed as well, right?

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 10:35:59

Fifty Years Ago

In August 1959 the Dow Jones Industrial Average consisted of these 30 stocks:

Allied Chemical
Aluminum Company of America
American Can
American Tel. & Tel.
American Tobacco B
Anaconda Copper
Bethlehem Steel
Chrysler
Du Pont
Eastman Kodak Company
General Electric Company
General Foods
General Motors Corporation
Goodyear
International Harvester
International Nickel
International Paper Company
Johns-Manville
Owens-Illinois Glass
Procter & Gamble Company
Sears Roebuck & Company
Standard Oil of California
Standard Oil (N.J.)
Swift & Company
Texaco Incorporated
Union Carbide
United Aircraft
U.S. Steel
Westinghouse Electric
Woolworth

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-18 11:47:09

I didn’t even recognize United Aircraft. Apparently it was a holding company later broken up by anti-trust guys.

Wikipedia says “the holding company controlled the stock of the Boeing Airplane Company of Seattle, the Chance Vought Corporation, the Hamilton Aero Manufacturing Company (a propeller manufacturer) and the Pratt & Whitney Aircraft Company, the well known engine manufacturer. Sikorsky Aviation Corporation, the Stearman Aircraft Company of Wichita, Kansas, and the Standard Steel Propeller Company were added to United’s empire shortly thereafter, followed by several more airlines brought into the fold. The airline interests were soon grouped under a new management company known as United Air Lines, Inc. “

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-08-18 13:18:42

I was interested enough to look these up.

Allied Chemical same
Aluminum Company of America ALCOA
American Can Pechiny (French)
American Tel. & Tel. same
American Tobacco B Altria
Anaconda Copper British Petroleum
Bethlehem Steel ArcelorMittal (Lux.)
Chrysler US Government
Du Pont same
Eastman Kodak Company same
General Electric Company same
General Foods Kraft
General Motors Corporation US Government
Goodyear same
International Harvester Navistar
International Nickel Vale Inco (Brazil)
International Paper Company same
Johns-Manville Berkshire Hathaway
Owens-Illinois Glass same
Procter & Gamble Company same
Sears Roebuck & Company same
Standard Oil of California Chevron
Standard Oil (N.J.) ExxonMobil
Swift & Company JBS
Texaco Incorporated Chevron
Union Carbide Dow Chemical
United Aircraft Boeing/UTC/many more
U.S. Steel same (after many changes)
Westinghouse Electric same
Woolworth Foot-Locker

Comment by DennisN
2009-08-18 13:57:24

Hmm….the forum s/w edited out the whitespace.

Allied Chemica /// same
Aluminum Company of America /// ALCOA
American Can /// Pechiny (French)
American Tel. & Tel. /// same
American Tobacco B /// Altria
Anaconda Copper /// British Petroleum
Bethlehem Steel /// ArcelorMittal (Lux.)
Chrysler /// US Government
Du Pont /// same
Eastman Kodak Company /// same
General Electric Company /// same
General Foods /// Kraft
General Motors Corporation /// US Government
Goodyear /// same
International Harvester /// Navistar
International Nickel /// Vale Inco (Brazil)
International Paper Company /// same
Johns-Manville /// Berkshire Hathaway
Owens-Illinois Glass /// same
Procter & Gamble Company /// same
Sears Roebuck & Company /// same
Standard Oil of California /// Chevron
Standard Oil (N.J.) /// ExxonMobil
Swift & Company /// JBS
Texaco Incorporated /// Chevron
Union Carbide /// Dow Chemical
United Aircraft /// Boeing/UTC/many more
U.S. Steel /// same (after many changes)
Westinghouse Electric /// same
Woolworth /// Foot-Locker

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 11:38:22

Centex, Pulte shareholders OK takeover
AP Real Estate Tuesday, Aug. 18, 2009

Pulte Homes Inc. says shareholders for the homebuilder and rival Centex Corp. each voted to clear Pulte’s takeover of Centex, creating the largest homebuilder in the United States.

Richard Dugas Jr., chief executive of Bloomfield Hills, Mich.-based Pulte, said Tuesday the companies’ shareholders approved the deal by a margin of more than 90 percent. The deal is expected to close by the end of the day.

Under the terms of the deal, investors in Dallas-based Centex will receive 0.975 shares of Pulte common stock for each Centex share they own.

The acquisition is valued at around $1.53 billion based on Pulte’s stock price Tuesday afternoon.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 11:45:30

Was on errands this morn.

In the past, I’ve mentioned a neighbor who took out a reverse mortgage in late 2006. You know the one — she went on a truly baffling spending spree, then fell and broke a leg in December 2007. House has been empty ever since.

After surgery and a spell in a rehab center, she was moved into her eldest son’s house in northern Arizona. House was fixed up cosmetically, then put up for sale in June 2008. Sign stayed up until February 2009, and Yours Truly had assumed that the place had been sold.

Wrong-o.

This past June, I heard that it had been foreclosed on. This morning, I spied a NOTS on the front of the house. Among other things, the NOTS showed the Deed of Trust amount to be $285,500. I assume that this figure was the amount of the reverse mortgage.

IMHO, that was way, way, way, WAY more than that house was ever worth. When the lady was living there, she had quite a fondness for stray cats. Place stunk so bad that some of us neighbors took to calling it The Cat House.

Before the house was fixed up, several weeks of cleaning were required. I heard that the cats had done their business all through the house, and getting rid of that odor was quite the job.

BTW, when the house went up for sale, the initial wishing price was around $220,000. No deal. The family dropped the price into the mid-$100,000s, but, obviously, that didn’t work either.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 15:15:42

Oh, I might add that I heard through the grapevine about the financial institution involved in this NOTS. It’s Wells Fargo.

All I can say is that if Wells Fargo was stupid enough to reverse mortgage this property for way, way, way, WAY more than it was ever worth, they deserve what they have coming to them on the Ides of October.*

————–

*According to the NOTS, that’s the date of the auction on the Pima County Courthouse steps.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 21:40:00

You can’t get out cat smell.

You have to pull out the drywall, the flooring, and subflooring, and then hopefully. And maybe even the 2×4’s.

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 11:47:55

Oil up nearly $2.50 per barrel for no reason whatsoever.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 11:49:55

It’s now being reported that auto sales are poised to drop off a cliff. Looks like cash for clunkers was a short term frenzy.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 12:39:28

Many people on this blog thought it was a short-term frenzy. Yours Truly included.

And think of what time of the year it is — it’s the end of the 2009 model year. The ’10s are about to come out. Looks like We The People just helped the dealers clear out their old inventory.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 11:52:49

Extreme Oil Forecasts Are “Ludicrous”
Aug 18, 2009 Tech Ticker in Investing, Products and Trends, Commodities, Recession.

The oil forecasting bulls and bears are at it again.

Citing supply bottlenecks and a recovering global economy, Goldman is forecasting crude prices again will surge, as they did in July last year. On the other side, bear Robert Prechter of Elliott Wave International forecasts oil plunging to $10/barrel during the next decade. So who’s right?

Edward Morse, head of research for LCM Commodities and LCM, says both extreme forecasts are “ludicrous.” Morse added there’s just enough lack of transparency in the oil industry to allow for such diverging forecasts. The disagreement focuses on two key issues: (1) production capacity and (2) demand outlook.

With a V-shaped economic recovery unlikely and peak summer refining season winding down, Morse believes oil is fairly valued in the mid-to-low $60 range and likely to remain in a $50 to $75 range for the foreseeable future.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 11:54:48

“Mexican drug smugglers tied to California fire”

“Wildfire investigators in California are looking for marijuana growers tied to a Mexican drug cartel whom they suspect ignited a blaze that has charred more than 87,000 acres of a national forest…A joint statement issued Saturday night by the Santa Barbara County sheriff’s office and the Forest Service said the blaze was sparked by a “cooking fire in a marijuana drug trafficking operation … believed to be run by a Mexican national drug organization.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090818/us_nm/us_wildfire_marijuana

We really, REALLY need to tighten up our border security, and send these dirtbags packing.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 12:37:24

“We really, REALLY need to tighten up our border security, and send these dirtbags packing”.

True, but that would offend the bed wetting thumb sucking bleeding hearts. Can’t we all just get along?

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 12:49:37

This has nothing to do with partisan politics. I know Dems and Repubs alike, and none of them want the illegal aliens here.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 14:00:42

Being in southern Arizona, I am well aware of the problems caused by illegal immigration. One of them is the environmental degradation of the borderlands.

Which has caused more than a few “liberal on every other issue” Democrats to get quite upset. As in, “Something’s gotta be done!” upset. Quite a few of those folks are more environmentalist than most of us greenies on this-here HBB.

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Comment by Jon
2009-08-18 14:23:07

Do you really want to pay American’s to pick lettuce? Are you really ready to pay an extra $2/head? Let’s face it, American workers would want health care, retirement and dental. That extra $2 goes a long way at WalMart!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 14:49:51

I seldom buy lettuce. Not enough nutrient density in it.

Besides, growing your own lettuce isn’t that hard.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 14:53:32

There are LEGAL programs in place for migrant farm workers. That said, I would GLADLY pay an extra $2 per head for lettuce if it meant an end to illegal immigration. In fact, I believe our food is too cheap. We pay a historically low 9% of our income for food these days, which would seem to be a good thing, but it’s come at the expense of quality- and our health. I’m actually in favor of organic farms with American workers. There are many of them, and they’re growing. I am against corporate and factory farms sporting laundry lists of ethics and environmental violations, whose fat cats roll in the dough at the expense of society as a whole.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 15:22:40

Do you really want to pay American’s to pick lettuce? This American grows & picks his own lettuce without being paid to do so.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-18 15:27:06

The fraction of undocumented aliens employed in harvesting fruits/veggies is something like 1%.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-18 15:57:35

Lucky you — having the land to be able to do that.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-18 16:00:53

I could afford that more expensive lettuce while my healthcare costs returned to more historical levels (when we only paid for citizens or those who got in the front door) freeing up discretionary income.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 16:12:23

You can grow lettuce in pots. I’ve done it.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 21:44:29

slim, email me/or post answer, on how you are able to grow your lettuce/toms. We live in same same climate and the ‘pots/earthboxes’ didn’t produce in any sustainable way. sniffle sniffle.
After they knocked off, even the zinnias croaked.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 15:38:46

I wasn’t talking about politics, but it has to be blatantly obvious that neither party gives a happy damn about illegal aliens. Our boarders are porous and the republodims apparently like it that way, as do the citizens, since they keep voting for the same azzholes over and over again. The elected must love repeating the same old BS over and over again…. and it works.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 21:49:27

Our boarders

borders.

When we were young kids, teens, picking fruit during summer for extra money was the thing we did. But todays citizens think it is beneath us. And one other thing is that THEN we didn’t know how much ddt we were being exposed to and the pickers of the last 20 yrs or so are being sprayed as they pick. They do indeed pay taxes, as their employers take it out of their paychecks. IF they are illegal, they just can’t file for their tax refund. So, to have the chance for citizenship, they let that money go.

I wish we had a stronger immigration laws, but corporations don’t want that and they own congress.

 
 
 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-08-18 15:58:51

““We really, REALLY need to tighten up our border security, and send these dirtbags packing”.

True, but that would offend the bed wetting thumb sucking bleeding hearts. Can’t we all just get along?”

The people who would really be offended are the (usually) conservative, Republican, white, ex-Ivy League frat boys who really run things and actually recruit(ed) immigrants to work here to avoid labor and wage issues. Hear me out.

Take for example the turds who run companies like Smithfield “Farms” and who advertise in Mexico for workers so that they can replace their ill-treated, poor blacks who won’t put up with terrible wages, who replaced their ill-treated poor, whites who wouldn’t put with terrible wages.

All this so that these now displaced workers (and we) can get cheaper food so that we can have more disposable income to go on Carnival cruises, buy more, bigger, cheap crap that we don’t need, use too much energy, destroy the planet and get softer and dumber and weaker and not wake up and burn down the mansions of the “Masters of the Universe” and hang them by a length of strong rope. There are probably only 10,000 or so people who took it all from you. It’s not the liberals, not the conservatives, not the gubmint (directly), not the immigrants. And — they — own — you (and the republicrat government). Focus people!

“Every minute I stay in this room, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie squats in the bush, he gets stronger. Each time I looked around the walls moved in a little tighter.”

We must realize that it’s not the immigrants’ fault that they want to feed their families nor the “bed-wetters” (by which I assume you mean liberals) who let them in or anybody other than the new oligarchy. It’s the “four star clowns about to give away the whole show” who have used money and power to game the system and who get us to blame each other and the immigrants. We’re all immigrants in America.

MrBubble

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 17:42:43

You are right. They should enforce current laws against those who employ illegal aliens, $10000 a pop IIRC.

My family has only been here since 1640, but I’m pretty sure Denmark wouldn’t recognize me as a citizen. Those who have no claim on US citizenship nor legal residency need to be deported and those who have played by the rules should be given the chance.

It’s about rule of law vs. anarchy.

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Comment by MrBubble
2009-08-18 19:20:59

“It’s about rule of law vs. anarchy.”

Fair enough. Got into the cocktails early. It’s just that the whole “gol’ durned im’grints!” argument boils my bottom and I got ahead of myself.

SrBurbuja

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 19:34:10

De acuerdo Senor burbuja, los super-creyentes de los dos lados quieren hacer del usunto un incendio. EU es pais de immigrantes, y lo sequira siendo. Tambien ha sido un pais donde los ciudadanos respetuosos de la ley reciben proteccion contra toda amenaza, extranjera o domestica, y lo continuara siendo. (espero)

Translation:

Agreed Mr. Bubble, the uber believers on both sides want to make this matter a bonfire. The US is a country of immigrants and will continue to be so. It is also has been a country where the law abiding citizenry are protected against all threats, foreign and domestic, and will continue to be so. (I hope)

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-08-18 20:12:07

El Duderino –

No necesito la traducción! Estoy borracho, pero no estoy estupido! :smile:

A decir verdad, tuve que encontrar las palabras “los ciudadanos respetuosos” y “amenaza”.

En serio, gracias siempre por sus pensamientos.

SrB

I know that I sound like Borat when I speak Spanish, because it’s still pretty much a literal translation of English, but I am trying. Feel free to correct at will!

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-18 23:04:30

Amen, Bub.

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Comment by measton
2009-08-18 12:53:25

We really need to legalize marijuana and take away the financial incentives for criminals. License and tax production. Allow the individual to grow pot for a fee but not sell it without a license. Problem solved.

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 13:30:00

Not fair to heroin and coke addicts. Need to legalize those too to eliminate the criminal element. Damn you Billy Mays, why’d you have to be a coke head.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 13:40:36

I think you are kidding, but, pot yes, heroin and cocaine no.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-18 16:57:23

Agreed.

There’s a WORLD of difference betwixt pot and heroin/coke/serious stuff.
And if someone doesn’t know that, well, then, that someone stupidly wasted their precious college years, is all I can say.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-08-18 19:34:07

There may be a world of difference, but prison for non-violent drug offenders? Oly, not you too! It’s so expensive compared to treatment (something like 10X). And yeah, yeah, they might be stealing. But if the price dropped due to an end to the prohibition, the price would plummet as would drug related robberies and gun violence.

MrBubble

“Don’t say coke or freebase — unless you got some!”

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 21:57:19

Legalize pot, and wipe out literally, all the drug gangs that are killing, raping, kidnapping people.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-18 15:50:04

Hey if we had more coke heads like Billy Mays we wouldn’t have a social security problem. The could all kick off in their 50s. They could pay in until they collect. Never collect the bennies. It would be their choice. No messy legislation necessary.

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Comment by dude
2009-08-18 17:46:56

A good friend of mine who is a recovering addict thinks the best plan would be to cordon off about 100 square miles of North Dakota, provide food, shelter, and all the drugs anyone cares to use. All offenders are sent there, anyone else is free to go in, but no one gets out without peeing in a cup.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 19:10:21

Sign me up! But can we pick a warmer state?

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 19:26:01

How about Midway island?

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-18 20:04:39

Utarr?

:-)

 
 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-08-18 14:22:03

then the drug dealers can get their RE licenses instead. That’s the ticket!

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 15:51:23

wait a minute.. we the people do not want pot legalized..

You recreational pot smokers conspire with and support local gangsters as well as mean assed foreign drug cartels who come into our country and cost us tons of money and cause all kinds of trouble, and you think you can leverage the high social costs of your criminal activity into a political ploy to legalize pot?

..that’s why they call it dope..

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-18 17:58:10

joeyu: Usually, for what it is worth, I like your posts. I know you are smart. Probably, a lot smarter than me too…

However, No one said one way or the other whether they smoked pot. Plus your reasoning is so elaborately screwed I don’t reply. You are mixing up cause and effect.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 19:48:45

cause and effect…. reasoning..

“Why blame me, officer? I was speeding because this stretch of road is so straight, flat and well paved it positively invites one to speed.”

“That may be so, but we have laws against speeding.”

“Did i get in an accident? Cause any damage? No. And people speed all the time while you aren’t watching. This speed limit law does nothing but inhibit my freedoms and it costs taxpayers money in providing you with a job.
The large majority of people WANT to speed. This road is SAFE.”

“Sign here, please.”

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-18 18:35:45

joey– same argument was made about alcohol during prohibition

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 19:28:02

alpha.. Does alcohol not do enough damage? Are this nation’s various (legal) drug addictions not plentiful enough?

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-18 20:44:05

alpha.. Does alcohol not do enough damage? Are this nation’s various (legal) drug addictions not plentiful enough?

As a responsible adult in a free society, you may take any drug you like.

Drug prohibition is a direct violation of constutionally guaranteed freedoms and as such (and as is being demonstrated daily) a threat to our democracy.

We need 3 drug laws:

1)Don’t give drugs to kids.

2)Don’t give drugs to people without their knowledge and permission.

3)Don’t misrepresent the property of any drug.

Everything else (DUI, abuse, endangerment, criminal mischief) we already have laws against, just double the penalty if you’re high when you break ‘em.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 21:29:14

As a responsible adult in a free society, you may take any drug you like.

Believe it or not, i agree completely. I guess it’s something I have in common with libertarians.. but i am also a realist.

The reality is we are not a nation of responsible adults.

We have proven our widespread drug-related irresponsibility innumerable times, and have chosen to not pay the dues all freedoms require. Freedom and irresponsibility simply do not mix.

Were we actually responsible and if we consistently acted so, all drugs (and every other thing) would already be legal and available.

Is it fair and just that we all must suffer because of the actions of some? What say the libertarians?

 
 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-08-18 19:56:41

“joeyu: Usually, for what it is worth, I like your posts. I know you are smart. Probably, a lot smarter than me too…”

Not to kiss your a$$, 4 UP + 4UP, but I disagree with every part of that statement. His “argument” leads me to believe that JiC is toking off the Alaskan Thunderf*ck as we speak. Terrible, terrible “logic”.

And I swear I’d be less of a d1ck, but I’ve been drinking rather than smoking.

“No one said one way or the other whether they smoked pot.” Correction: I smoke pot. Happy now? I am a licensed user for my glaucoma.

Nah. Just kidding. I just like to smoke and play disc golf. I know, I know. Horrible person. Y’all are too funny.

MrBubble

“It’s illegal ’cause it’s wrong! It’s wrong ’cause it’s illegal!” “You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!”

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 20:18:41

His “argument” leads me to believe that JiC is toking off the Alaskan Thunderf*ck as we speak. Terrible, terrible “logic”.

you sure as hell don’t smoke pot.. no pot smoker would claim it messes up a person’s ability to think logically.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 23:30:39

“you sure as hell don’t smoke pot.. no pot smoker would claim it messes up a person’s ability to think logically.”

Riiiiiiight… just as no drinker would ever admit to cognitive impairment due to inebriation. Keep on toking, Joey.

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-18 23:12:06

Not if they grow their own, Joey. And sorry, we the people DO want pot legalized for personal use…just like homemade wine and beer are.

And I don’t even smoke.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 16:37:51

Just one more reason to put our military on our boarders, so they can blow these POS’s away!

Autopsy: Slain Border Patrol agent shot 8 times
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 San Diego, CA (AP) –

An autopsy report says a Border Patrol agent who was slain near San Diego was shot eight times in the head, neck and torso.

The San Diego County medical examiner’s office report released Tuesday says 30-year-old Robert Rosas was hit four times in the head — three times on the left side of his face and once in the back of the head. He was also shot once in the neck and three times in the torso.

The report says Rosas was discovered the night of July 23 in Campo, Calif. without a pulse. It says he left his car with the ignition on while pursuing three suspected illegal immigrants.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 17:04:04

military on the border.. with orders to follow them back to mexico.. and put stormin norman in charge and, this time, don’t stop him from going all the way to “Baghdad” if he thinks he should..

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 17:49:48

But that would be a militarized zone!

No son, that would be a new DMZ. If we can do it is Korea, we surely can do it here.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 18:04:56

whoopeedo… Mexico’s military is already setting up shop. Be there or be square.

Monday, 17 August 2009
(Mexican border inspectors let go)…It was a move that surprised many.
Hundreds of Border agents were informed their contracts had run out, and were asked to turn in their badges and weapons. Saturday, the agents were informed the military was taking over their positions. Newly trained officials with the Exterior Commerce Department will reportedly fill the positions. The Mexican Military had reportedly recommended the change….

//
kxoradio.com/content/view/5929/2/

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 12:03:56

One View From Across the Pond:

By Gerald Warner (UK Telegraph)

The white flag is flying over Camp Obama, which makes a pleasant change from the red flag that, metaphorically speaking, has been flying there since January 20. Barack Obama’s plan for socialised health care on the Stalinist model across the United States is now in full retreat. Not only will it not play in Peoria, it will not play anywhere.

Politicians returning to Washington after scrubbing off the tar and feathers acquired at town-hall meetings are bringing with them a blast of reality that has been absent from Obama’s dreamland regime since his inauguration. For months Obama had been trumpeting the indispensable nature of his “public option” in a new health care system. Suddenly, it is no big deal. Kathleen Sebelius, the Health and Human Services Secretary, is now telling Americans that taxpayer-funded insurance was “not the essential element”.

So, President Pantywaist is in full retreat; but he is desperate for some face-saving measure to pretend he has achieved revolutionary reform. The Senate should not oblige. Obama has no interest in genuine health care reform: as a Senator he voted against all the moderate, achievable measures that were proposed. So far as he was concerned, the worse things got for 48 million uninsured Americans the better: it might persuade them to buy into his socialist scheme, the primary objective of which was not relief of suffering but expansion of Big Government.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 12:41:33

I assume that Gerald Warner gets his care from the British National Health Service.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 13:28:13

Maybe the goal was to distract people from the criminals in the banks and lenders who just made off with trillions of taxpayer dollars? Nobody in gov’t really cares about people lower in social status from them.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-18 17:52:33

I heard a Dem congress person on the radio this afternoon being questioned about health care reform.

He refused to use Obama’s name in connection with the legislation. Methinks the winds are shifting.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 22:05:33

UK telegraph far right publication.
Consider the source.

And yes, Gerald Warner gets his health care covered for life.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-08-18 12:04:23

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — Pacific Investment Management Co. strategic adviser Richard Clarida said growth of about 2 percent paired with an elevated unemployment rate will likely be the “new normal” as the U.S. economy recovers.

“We don’t see the V-shaped recovery” experienced in past rebounds from recessions that featured higher rates of growth, as consumption remains low, Clarida said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in New York.

“Normally when you come out of recession, the best performing sectors tend to be the early cyclicals, retailers, homebuilders, airlines,” he said. “That was true in the first part of this rally, and I don’t think it’s going to be sustainable.”

The economy is “really dependent” on sectors driven by public spending, said Clarida, who teaches economics at Columbia University in New York.

 
Comment by Ria Rhodes
2009-08-18 12:08:31

So who’s the bigger socialist, those who want big business to use us and abuse us, or those who want big government to use us and abuse us?

Comment by packman
2009-08-18 12:15:26

Worst case is what we have now, which is a mesh of the two abusing us.

Comment by packman
2009-08-18 12:17:48

In other words - don’t assume it’s an either/or scenario. Usually it’s not.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-18 12:56:53

As long as we have a democracy I’ll give more power to gov vs corporations. If you create massive business monopolies/oligopolies they will control gov anyway. Too Big to FAIL

Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 13:21:51

Uh, the companies do control the gov’t. Presidential puppets.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 12:09:17

River Road Hotel Partners files for Chapter 11

Aug 18 (Reuters) - River Road Hotel Partners LLC, owner of the InterContinental Chicago O’Hare hotel, and five affiliates, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, underscoring how the hotel industry has been slammed in the economic downturn.

In a filing on Monday with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Northern District of Illinois, the company listed estimated assets of up to $100 million and estimated liabilities of up to $500 million.

The InterContinental O’Hare hotel is located close to the O’Hare International Airport in Chicago. The hotel, which is managed by Portfolio Hotels Rosemont LLC, employs 147 full-time and 15 part-time employees, court documents showed.

The recession has hit hotel chains hard because leisure and business customers are traveling less or demanding lower rates.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 12:26:40

Did Big Government Save Us From A Second Great Depression?
Aug 18, 2009 09 Henry Blodget in Investing, Recession, Banking

Now that it looks as though the economy won’t fall into the abyss, economists have stopped arguing about what the government should do to save us and started arguing about what the government did that saved us.

For example, nobel-laureate and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman argued two weeks ago that our savior was Big Government. Specifically, he said that the vast Wall Street bailout (however loathsome) combined with the government’s willingness to run up huge deficits kept the spending pumps running when private-market demand collapsed.

Megan McArdle of the Atlantic isn’t so sure.

First, there’s the problem with arguing that we have been saved from something hypothetical. (Would the world really have ended if we hadn’t bailed out AIG? Are we sure?) Then there’s the fact that the stimulus designed to save us has barely kicked in yet–so it’s hard to argue that Keynesian spending increases are really the white knight here. Third, it’s not actually clear that we have really been saved yet. (What about the threat of a double-dip?)

Lastly, there is the fact that our government did not make the same boneheaded mistakes that plunged the country into the Great Depression–such as tightening the money supply (ours has been kept extremely loose). The absence of these mistakes, not Big Government, may be the real savior here.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 13:27:35

“First, there’s the problem with arguing that we have been saved from something hypothetical.”

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed — and hence clamorous to be led to safety — by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

– Henry Louis Mencken –
antifalsehoodmentarianist par excellence

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-18 15:19:41

The absence of these mistakes, not Big Government, may be the real savior here. I’ll be willing to think on this issue when the crisis is really over. It ain’t over by a long shot, and our leadership is still asleep at the wheel.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 16:00:05

I am surprised to see big-name academic economists jumping to conclusions about the crisis having already ended. Haven’t they read any of the recent articles documenting the huge numbers of mortgage delinquencies in the foreclosure pipeline? How about the toxic asset problem the TARP failed to clean up? These problems don’t just vanish into thin air if you think hard enough. So far as I am aware, the Think Method only works for playing musical instruments, not for cleaning up toxic mortgage cesspools.

Bad banks — They’re baaack!

Seeking to lure more buyers at a time of intense distress, the FDIC has dusted off the oft-touted, but rarely used, plan of setting up bad banks. Will it work this time?

By Colin Barr, senior writer
August 18, 2009: 1:28 PM ET

The FDIC, led by Sheila Bair, is trying to push failed bank assets back into the private sector.

NEW YORK (Fortune) — Facing mounting bank failures, regulators are putting a new twist on a familiar idea: splitting a bank’s good assets from the bad ones.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said last month it would consider splitting the toxic assets of a failed bank from its more valuable parts, such as deposits and loans that aren’t going sour.

The goal is to help the FDIC, facing the biggest wave of bank failures in almost two decades, find new buyers for the remains of failed banks while limiting losses on its depleted insurance fund.

“This helps us widen the net in marketing bank assets,” said FDIC spokesman David Barr. “When you have the inventory we have, you look for different ways to try to sell it.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 19:46:10

“The FDIC, led by Sheila Bair, is trying to push failed bank assets back into the private sector.”

Suggestion:

The gubmint should take stealth measures to reflate housing prices, as toxic MBS would not look nearly so bad with the prospect of rising home prices. Then after private investors snap up all the toxic MBS, let home prices resume their crash.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 20:50:15

People might find some useful and perhaps profitable stuff in a bank’s collection of garbage assets. Who knows what’s in there?

Things some bank must consider bad may not be bad to certain private investors.

What gets me is the line.. “This helps us widen the net in marketing bank assets,”.

She wants to widen the net? Searching for fish? That’s the wrong attitude, imo, and I’d have to expect very little honest, open, and helpful assistance from her.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:21:44

Searching for fish greater fools

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-18 12:42:59

Not to mention that there’s been massive overbuilding of hotels in the last few years.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-18 13:20:50

Eating pizza with friends in Norfolk Saturday night (before a hot day scuba diving in the quarry) I overheard people behind me. Bits of their conversation was that loans are still there to buy new homes at 100%. Sellers are paying closing costs. One person said they had to write a check to sell their condo last year. Another said they couldn’t sell their condo for what they owe. A friend is stuck in this position, actually. Kind of sucks for him, he didn’t want to flip it or anything, I think he thought he was just doing what was proper. Not fancy.

Comment by eastcoaster
2009-08-18 13:44:32

How long has your friend lived there? I never understood people who buy for a couple of years and then want to sell. Isn’t the historical break-even point of home ownership 7 years?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-18 16:31:52

Seven years when the price/rent ratio are better than they are currently. I’d bet we’re still at 15-20+ years minimum. But it’s down from ‘infinity’ as you’d die before you broke even buying at the top.

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-18 13:43:19

“Monsanto Does ‘Dust and Ditch’ Destroying Local Organic Farm”

“Grinnell Heritage Farm is 152 years old. Andrew Dunham is the fifth generation of his family to work this land about 50 miles east of Des Moines… Andrew and his wife Melissa are a few months shy of receiving their formal certification as an organic farm.

Across the road, due north of their land, is a field of corn that is owned and managed by the Monsanto seed corn plant… On July 6th, a rustic-looking old biplane swooped in to spray Monsanto’s field. To put it mildly, the pilot’s bombardiering skills were not what one would hope.

Dunham’s crew was in the field picking broccoli and spinruts (”turnip” backwards-a Japanese form of the root vegetable). They witnessed the plane as it failed to shut off its spray mechanism, and the fungicide drifted into their fields. “The ground is in the third year of transition and would have become organically certified on September 1st,” Andrew said. Now, probably not.

You’d think that this would be a clear-cut cause of action, as the legal folks would put it. But the clever folks at Monsanto hire the crop dusters as contractors, and they in turn use a corporate shell with no assets, so when something like this happens and a victim sues, they simply file bankruptcy and then form a new corporation.”

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18638.cfm

Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-18 16:03:32

Wouldn’t a good wind accomplish the same thing even if the pilot knew how to aim and fire correctly?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-18 22:09:53

Monsanto is doing this all over the place, windy day or not.
Lots of info on how monsanto for years is practicing serious nefarious acts on local farmers, private farmers.

They had the flyer do that on purpose.
Pure and simple.

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-18 14:33:51

From the horses mouth, so to speak:

The President Exhibits Crazy
Speech Patterns
By Cindy Sheehan
8-18-9

As I listened to clips of Obama’s speech to the VFW on August 17th, 2009, I was wondering if his speechwriters were on vacation and they just recycled an old Bush/ Cheney/ Rumsfeld/ Rice speech.

While the so-called left is focused on the health care debacle and is allowing the so-called right to define the debate when it should be: Medicare for all, and all for Medicare; Obama and his neocon foreign policy team are preparing for a decades long, bloody foray in Af-Pak.

As Yael T. Abouhalkah, an editorial writer for the Kansas City Star, put it:

President Barack Obama did his best imitation of former President George Bush Monday at the VFW national convention in Phoenix.

Obama sounded downright hawkish — and, yes, presidential — when he addressed the issue of terrorism in front of the veteran-laden crowd. Dick Cheney could not have said it better.

This is one of the reasons I am leading protests next week on Martha’s Vineyard where President Obama will be vacationing. The anti-war movement cannot allow itself to be co-opted by the Democratic Party any longer.

We cannot allow the War Party and other elites to define the terms of the War Debate.

Obama actually had this to say in his speech in front of the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW):

We must never forget. This is not a war of choice. This is a war of necessity. Those who attacked America on 9/11 are plotting to do so again. If left unchecked, the Taliban insurgency will mean an even larger safe haven from which al Qaeda would plot to kill more Americans. So this is not only a war worth fighting. This is fundamental to the defense of our people.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 15:51:27

“From the horses mouth, so to speak”

Sheehan, is an attention seeking crack pot IMO, and has a slight resemblance to Mr. Ed, but she does have a point. Barry is all over the board and is doing what the majority of politicians do, pandering to the crowd of the moment, AKA lying.

He is no longer a senator or community organizer, so most of this will stick, no matter how much the state run media covers his azz. D.C. ain’t Chicago, Ram & company are really directionless, the time is fast approaching that the tired line “we inherited this mess” won’t fly.

If anyone else had been elected it would not have flown this long, Barry got a pass and is wasting it.

Comment by dude
2009-08-18 18:00:19

We certainly are seeing a whole lot less of, “Shrub did it!” around here.
New evil same as the old evil, just a bit different in the packaging is all.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-18 16:14:06

Wal-Mart to offer “Hard Candy” to woo high-end shoppers…

NEW YORK/SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc is rolling out a new line of cosmetics by Hard Candy, hoping to dazzle shoppers with glitter eye shadow and volumizing mascara by a brand that is sold at more upscale retailers, like Sephora.

At a launch event held on Tuesday in the penthouse suite of Manhattan’s trendy Bryant Park Hotel, Wal-Mart showcased the line, which will be introduced in 3,000 of its U.S. stores in September. It will be rolled out internationally next spring.

The new line is being made specifically for Wal-Mart.

The cosmetics will range in price from $5 to $10, or $6.40 on average, and are designed to appeal to 18- to 35-year-old women who are looking to have fun with their makeup.

“The more bells and whistles, the more excited our customer will be,” said Carmen Bauza, vice president of beauty for Wal-Mart.

APPEALING TO HIGHER INCOME SHOPPERS

Wal-Mart has said it is attracting higher-income shoppers to its stores as recession pressures household budgets and consumers adopt a frugal mind-set.

But investors have questioned its ability to keep those shoppers once the economy improves and customers have more money to spend. Wal-Mart has been adamant that it will retain those new shoppers and plans to do so by introducing new product lines, like Hard Candy.

“New, higher spenders have found Wal-Mart,” Bauza said.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 19:54:33

Many, many thanks to Professor Rogoff for weighing in on the critical need for banking regulation. My fear is that the opportunity will (again) pass by without meaningful reform, thanks to the stellar rescue job executed by the Fed.

Financial Times
Why we need to regulate the banks sooner, not later
By Kenneth Rogoff
Published: August 18 2009 20:11 | Last updated: August 18 2009 23:12

…it is dangerous to point to the nascent restoration of profits in the financial sector as clear evidence of a corresponding benefit to the economy. There is an element of arbitrage, as banks borrow at low rates against the implicit guarantee of a government bail-out in the event of a crisis. Do people really believe, as some argue, that moral hazard is a non-issue? Why should large systemically critical financial institutions be allowed to heavily leverage themselves with short-term borrowing? What would be lost if regulators placed stricter capital requirements to discourage arbitrage activities that excessively expose too-big-to-fail banks to systemic risk? Certainly economists have models of why it can be efficient for lenders to keep borrowers on a short leash. Yet these models do not explain why the leash has to be wrapped around borrowers’ necks three dozen times, as in the case of a highly leveraged bank.

The fact is that banks, especially large systemically important ones, are currently able to obtain cash at a near zero interest rate and engage in risky arbitrage activities, knowing that the invisible wallet of the taxpayer stands behind them. In essence, while authorities are saying that they intend to raise capital requirements on banks later, in the short run they are looking the other way while banks gamble under the umbrella of taxpayer guarantees.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-18 20:21:46

Can’t find the original post, but to whomever submitted the link to the hammer.ucla.edu lecture by William K. Black …..Thanks! It was long, but worth the watch.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:26:01

Unemployment Spike Compounds Foreclosure Crisis

In the first quarter, most foreclosures came from prime, not subprime, loans as more unemployed people got caught in foreclosures, economists say.

By Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 18, 2009

The country’s growing unemployment is overtaking subprime mortgages as the main driver of foreclosures, according to bankers and economists, threatening to send even higher the number of borrowers who will lose their homes and making the foreclosure crisis far more complicated to unwind.

Economists estimate that 1.8 million borrowers will lose their homes this year, up from 1.4 million last year, according to Moody’s Economy.com. And the government, which has already committed billions of dollars to foreclosure-prevention efforts, has found it far more difficult to help people who have lost their paychecks than those whose mortgage payments became unaffordable because of an interest-rate increase.

“It’s a much harder nut to crack, unemployment,” said Mark A. Calabria, director of financial regulation studies at the Cato Institute. “It’s much easier to bash lenders than to create jobs.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:27:21

Financial Times
HP profit plunge dashes hopes of tech recovery
By Joseph Menn in San Francisco
Published: August 18 2009 23:06 | Last updated: August 19 2009 00:37

An expected recovery in technology markets that could add to early indications that the world is heading out of recession has yet to take hold, according to figures released on Tuesday by Hewlett-Packard .

The group damped enthusiasm in the industry, announcing a 19 per cent drop in profit amid continued weakness in the European economy and a reluctance among corporate buyers to upgrade.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:29:19

* The Wall Street Journal
* AUGUST 19, 2009

Reluctant Shoppers Hold Back Recovery

By ANN ZIMMERMAN and SARA MURRAY

Major retailers reported that American consumers are continuing to hunker down, casting a cloud over the durability of the U.S. recovery and underscoring the importance of overseas demand in restoring the world economy to health.

Retailers across the spectrum provided foreboding reports. Discounter Target Corp. reported that sales at stores open at least a year were down 6.2% from a year earlier in the quarter ended Aug. 1, while luxury purveyor Saks Inc. reported a 15.5% drop in same-store sales over the past quarter as shoppers stuck to buying basics. Building-supply chain Home Depot Inc. saw total sales drop 9.1% in the quarter ending Aug. 2, and it reaffirmed expectations of a 9% sales drop this year.

Retail executives said they don’t expect conditions to improve until next spring. Some stores are girding for slow back-to-school and Christmas seasons by cutting inventories.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:38:24

* WALL STREET JOURNAL
* AUGUST 19, 2009

Home Depot, Lowe’s Feel Impact as Homeowners Skip Pricey Projects

By MIGUEL BUSTILLO and MARY ELLEN LLOYD

Home Depot Inc. and Lowe’s Cos. expect sales to sag well into next year as homeowners make do with cheaper paint-and-patch projects, skipping the pricey bath and kitchen makeovers that powered gains at the two largest home improvement retailers earlier this decade.

Home Depot on Tuesday posted a 7% drop in quarterly profit on a 9% decline in sales. The key reason: the average amount U.S. customers spent at the Atlanta-based retailer in the three months ended Aug. 2 fell by 7% to $52.21.

About one-fourth of the drop came from declines in big-ticket purchases such as kitchen remodels. Purchases of over $900, about a fifth of its sales historically, fell by a double-digit percentage rate from a year-ago, the company said.

The slip in larger purchases “is a drag on sales, and that means it is a drag on earnings,” said Home Depot Chief Financial Officer Carol Tomé, adding, “We are not looking for any significant improvement in the back half” of its fiscal year ending Jan. 31, 2010.

Home Depot said sales at stores open at least a year fell 8.5%. One culprit was a big decline in sales to handymen and building managers. A year ago, they made up 32% of Home Depot’s sales. Now, such sales are just 27%.

Retail executives are bracing for the likelihood that the more ambitious home makeovers that juiced past profits will be slow to return as homeowners’ property values fall, and many are unable to borrow against home equity.

When you are sitting there watching the value of your home continue to decline, that does affect your view of those bigger home repair projects,” said Lowe’s CEO Robert Niblock. “There are still customers spending significantly to improve their kitchens, but there are less of them than a few years ago.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:32:57

Fooled by randomness, not to mention hubris?

* WALL STREET JOURNAL
* COMMON SENSE
* AUGUST 18, 2009, 10:34 P.M. ET

Ivy League Schools Learn a Lesson in Liquidity

By JAMES B. STEWART

Just a year ago, in the midst of the subprime meltdown, many of the nation’s top universities and colleges were reporting significant gains. This year, the University of Pennsylvania is being hailed for Ivy League-leading results—with a decline of 15.7% for its fiscal year ended in June.

Results from other schools are still trickling in, but Harvard University has said it is expecting to report a drop of 30%, and Yale University about 25%. Considering the size of these endowments, these are staggering losses in absolute terms—many billions in the case of both Harvard and Yale.

Students soon will be heading back to larger classes, curtailed extracurricular activities and cheaper dining-hall fare. But the results are also of more than academic interest to investors like me, who have to some degree modeled their portfolios on the diversified asset-allocation model pioneered by Yale’s chief investment officer, David Swensen. What I refer to as the Ivy League approach for individuals calls for diversification along similar lines as the large university endowments—equities (domestic and foreign), fixed income, and real assets (which includes commodities and real estate), but with a much higher allocation to so-called nontraditional asset categories: emerging-market equities and debt, energy and commodities. Yale allocated just 10% to U.S. equities and 4% to fixed income, with 15% in foreign equities and 29% in so-called real assets as of June 30, 2008.

The major difference is that most individual investors didn’t qualify or otherwise couldn’t invest in the hedge funds and private equity and venture-capital partnerships that make up a large part of university endowments. At Yale, 25% of the endowment was in what the university calls “absolute return,” mostly hedge funds, and 20% was in private equity.

The irony is that turned out to be a huge advantage for individual investors this past year, when, in the midst of unprecedented market turmoil, many endowment managers learned the true meaning of “illiquid.” The exits for most private equity and venture-capital funds slammed shut. Existing positions yielded no cash flow even as investment partnerships made new demands for funding. Many investors were forced to sell their liquid investments into weak markets to fund cash needs and to meet prior commitments to investment funds. Asset allocations went wildly out of balance, overweighted to illiquid partnerships as the value of equities plunged. It’s a wonder that last year’s results weren’t even worse.

Liquidity turned out to be the Achilles’ heel of the Ivy League model. But what about its core premise—diversification? True, nearly every asset category declined at some point in 2008, even those that were supposed to be uncorrelated, like equities and high-quality corporate bonds.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-18 22:36:17

If real estate transaction data were more easily accessible, appraisal could be a cake walk.

* The Wall Street Journal
* AUGUST 18, 2009, 10:41 A.M. ET

Reappraising Home Appraisers

By JAMES R. HAGERTY

After being blamed for helping to inflate home values during the housing boom, the appraisal business is again coming under fire.

Squeezed by a drop in fees, some appraisers are compensating by driving long distances to handle more assignments. Their wanderings are raising questions about whether they know enough about the neighborhoods to accurately assess the value of homes—which has implications for both home buyers and owners.

Bob Blake, a flight-test engineer who lives in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla., was shocked when an appraiser who traveled 44 miles from Port St. Lucie, Fla., valued his home at $228,000 in late May. Mr. Blake’s mortgage broker, Skip McDonough, protested to the appraisal-management company, Nations Valuation Services Inc., that the appraiser had failed to look at comparable homes. Eventually, Nations sent another appraiser, who valued the home at $295,000. The dispute delayed Mr. Blake’s refinancing by more than six weeks.

A spokesman for Nations Valuation declined to discuss the details of the appraisals but said, “We feel we handled it properly.”

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-18 23:24:41

The mortgage broker… complained… that the appraiser had failed to look at comparable homes.

So, the complaint that succeeded in getting a new appraisal had nothing to do with the first appraiser coming from 44 miles away.. ?

The proper headline is “An out of town appraiser failed to look at comparable homes” .. but that’s boring.

 
 
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