August 19, 2009

Bits Bucket For August 19, 2009

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 04:26:06

Flagstar May Have to Sell Mortgage-Billing Contracts for a Loss

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — Flagstar Bancorp Inc., the Michigan lender whose January takeover sparked scrutiny of buyout firms’ role in the banking industry, may be forced to sell some of its $658 million of mortgage-collection contracts at a loss, people briefed on the matter said.

Fannie Mae, which owns or guarantees the mortgages, wants servicing on late or defaulted loans to be handled by specialists, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are private. Troy-based Flagstar would keep servicing Fannie Mae loans that remain current.

Flagstar, the 10th-biggest U.S. mortgage underwriter, is among several banks under pressure from Fannie Mae to pursue delinquent loans more aggressively, the people said. It’s controlled by MatlinPatterson Global Advisers LLC, which injected $350 million into Flagstar and is trying to shore up the lender’s finances after it posted losses in seven of the past eight quarters.

“Large mortgage servicers are just generally overwhelmed,” said Steve Horne, the former director of servicing risk strategy at Fannie Mae who now heads Wingspan Portfolio Advisors LLC, a specialist in distressed-loan collections. They “really lack the tools to cope with the volume of defaults.”

Flagstar doesn’t break out the delinquency rate on the loans it services for Fannie Mae, and the amount of servicing contracts that may be divested isn’t settled because talks are still in progress, one of the people briefed on the matter said. Andrew Siegel, a spokesman for MatlinPatterson, referred questions to Flagstar. The bank’s chief financial officer, Paul Borja, didn’t return calls for comment. Brian Faith, a spokesman for Fannie Mae, said he couldn’t comment.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 06:41:26

So, what’s the problem? Fannie can just call up Barney Frank and get any money they need up to their credit limit of $1 zillion. That is the beauty of TBTF. Party on.

 
Comment by DDX12000
2009-08-19 11:11:40

I really don’t understand why Flagstar’s reported ills are getting such little attention….

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 15:12:00

Less than a billion. Piffle.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 04:28:52

Climate Bill ‘Out of Control,’ Former Senator Says…

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — Cap-and-trade legislation to limit U.S. carbon dioxide emissions has “gotten out of control” and needs to be scaled back in Congress, said former Democratic Senator Timothy Wirth.

“The Republicans are right — it’s a cap-and-tax bill,” Wirth, a climate-change negotiator during President Bill Clinton’s administration, said in an Aug. 14 interview. “That’s what it is because they are raising revenue to do all sorts of things, especially to take care of the coal industry, and it makes no sense.”

A system to cap carbon emissions and then create a market for the trading of pollution allowances is the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s proposal to fight global warming. Wirth, who helped craft a successful emissions-trading market two decades ago that cut sulfur-dioxide pollution causing acid rain, is among Democrats questioning House-passed legislation set to be taken up next month in the Senate.

“I’m not critical of cap-and-trade,” said Wirth, head of the UN Foundation, a philanthropy established in 1998 with $1 billion from medial mogul Ted Turner. “But it has to be used in a targeted and disciplined way, and what has happened is it’s gotten out of control.”

Wirth, who represented Colorado in the Senate, says the House-passed plan is “too broad across the economy.” Instead of capping carbon pollution generally, the measure should focus solely on coal-fired power plants, he said

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-19 05:11:01

Cap and Trade. Another gift to Goldman.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-08-19 05:33:46

Yep. Google on Kyoto and Enron, it can be a real eye-opener for some.

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 10:11:41

Cap and Trade. Another gift to Goldman.

BINGO

Goldman has a much harder time gaming electricity markets due to local regulation. This is a way to stick it to electricity users the same way they have stuck it to motorists. There are those who have supported preventing GS and JPM and others from participating in the system but my guess is they will get drown out by the chorus of congressional whores eager for GS money.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-19 11:09:59

Speaking of sticking it to motorists, crude oil is now up over $3 per barrel today on news that supplies are “unexpectedly plunging”. What a great scam these guys have going. Nevermind the tankers which are parked off the shores of the US, Malta, etc. I’m hoping that oil rockets past $100 again, maybe even up to it’s lofty heights of last year. Nothing will crush this fragile economy faster. Maybe then, we’ll see Washington get some cojones and address these parasitic investment banks once and for all. Using TARP money to jack up commodities prices is beyond sickening- it’s evil.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 16:57:02

give ‘em enough rope…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-08-19 04:50:49

Americans: Serfs Ruled by Oligarchs Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts08192009.html

Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 05:25:13

Interesting article. I completely agree about what he says regarding the transfer of weath from individual Americans to the banking sector (and I let my Congresscritters know how I felt about that every step of the way). However, if you think we went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq “for NO OTHER REASON than the profits of US armaments corporations” and the case against Saddam H. was a “sham”, then you haven’t been paying attention.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-19 06:11:28

the good old military industrial complex .. we didn’t used to connect the word “corporation” to it.. I suppose there was enough to hate without piling on.
But anyway, you forgot the part about the Pentagon knocking the WTC towers down with missiles… or was it the Jews who did it.. i forget.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 09:08:54

Well the case against Saddam was a sham. Remember it was Al-Queida (Osama Bin Laden) that attacked the US not Saddam.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-19 12:39:28

Saddam paid bounties to the families of suicide bombers. It’s hard to believe he didn’t assist al-Qaeda.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 13:57:45

really lehi, and where are you getting those “facts”?

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-19 15:27:48

The same place he has his head planted.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-08-19 23:27:02

The “bounties” were more like political bribes. Rather like the ones we were paying him up until Rumsfeld/Cheney came in for Gulf War2.

 
 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-19 05:54:11

What did Americans gain from an unaffordable war in Iraq…

It’s all about money to some people, and Roberts is one of them.

Will Americans ever understand that they are impotent serfs?

Roberts has the soul of a slave and wants company.

lets see.. hates bush hates israel hates banks hates war hates Halliburton.. blah blah … 5 minutes of my life i’ll never get back..

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-08-19 06:12:15

‘What did Americans gain from an unaffordable war in Iraq…

It’s all about money to some people, and Roberts is one of them’

What? How about answering the question? I guess we got the democratization of the middle east. (Well, that didn’t happen either, so nope).

I overheard some young Marine the other day, showing his scars to some stranger. He mentioned Iraq was no place to take a vacation, whatever that means. And then there are the guys and gals missing limbs, or dead. And then there are all the Iraqis in some similar poor state. No, it’s not all about money. But people who are happy to keep pouring resources and misery into a place, from a distance, should be expected to come up with something better than attacking a messenger.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-19 06:36:39

I don’t like to waste space listing reasons everyone’s been told a hundred times before, or could Google in a minute or two. Someone around here really doesn’t know why we went to Iraq?

I remember Saddam claiming to have WMD.. i remember thousands of uranium fluoride centrifuges being found and destroyed.. He threatened WMD use against us in the “Mother of all Wars”.. and then there was his refusing full access to UN inspectors.. i remember his thumbing his nose at the world community, disregarding UN sanctions.. I remember his many opportunities to comply.. the endless string of second chances to avoid invasion..
Do we really need to hear all this again?

Democratization of the middle east won’t be easy and will take some time.. why? Because those countries will need to leapfrog over about 700 years of social development before they even approach having what the West considers basic human rights. And if a democratized ME by mid-2009 was promised to us I never got the memo.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 07:31:21

“Democratization of the middle east won’t be easy and will take some time.. why? Because those countries will need to leapfrog over about 700 years of social development before they even approach having what the West considers basic human rights.”

Sounds expensive, both in terms of human suffering and bank.

Why is it again that W decided to ‘go it alone’?

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-19 07:54:19

I remember the weapons inspectors coming back from Iraq before the war saying they have nothing. They were poor. Saddam said (before he was killed) that he was never too afraid of the US, he was terrified of Iran. He had to try to put on some face to try to avoid Iran from attacking them.

Remember the Policy for a New American Century called for regime change over there, and that was written before Bush was in office. 9/11 was just an opportunity.

 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 08:54:09

Democratization in the middle east being a goal of the gulf war is a load of baloney. Believe it or not, Saddam’s Iraq despite its million failings was in some way a much more equitable society than many other states in the middle east. Don’t believe me? Try building a church in Saudi Arabia and you’ll get what I mean.

If you think democracy can be spread/enforced by “shock and awe” 3am air raids, you are smoking crack.

There is only one point in your rant that I can agree with and it’s this Democratization of the middle east won’t be easy and will take some time, and not for the reason you give. It’s not going to be easy because it will be viewed now as a western/American influence that should be fought back.

Last time I checked, most of America’s best buddies (other than those in Europe) were far from democracies. What’s next for the neocons? Democratization of China? Give me a break!

 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-19 09:10:27

Your right, providing you were not a Shite or a Kurd, Sadaam’s Iraq was more equitable than Saudi Arabia.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 09:35:34

Iraq seems to have a functioning democratic government now, and Iran appears to be lurching in the same direction. So far, so good. If we’d had a semblance of a post-invasion plan, the Iraq war would have been far less costly in blood and treasure.

 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 10:04:31

Being a Kurd isn’t a picnic in America’s great ally, Turkey, either.

 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-19 10:26:03

But being a Kurd in Iraq today has to be much better.

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 10:27:12

I remember Saddam claiming to have WMD..

i remember thousands of uranium fluoride centrifuges being found and destroyed..

“” No you remember thousands of aluminum tubes that the gov claimed were for centrifuges, Our own nuclear experts at the energy department did not believe that these could be used for this purpose. They informed Bushco but they continued to use this info. Same with the bogus Iraq purchasing yellow cake from Niger story. It had holes big enough to drive a semi through including evidence of forgery.”"

He threatened WMD use against us in the “Mother of all Wars”..

“”Yes as we were mounting to go to war with him. What else did he have to deter his overthrow.”"

and then there was his refusing full access to UN inspectors..

“”Yes and tell us why we haven’t invaded N. Korea, Pakistan, Israel, Iran for similar reasons. Sanctions repeatedly forced his compliance, and they were allowed back in by the threat of war prior to our invasion. “”

Democratization of the middle east won’t be easy and will take some time.. why? Because the people aren’t willing to stand up and fight for it. Many believe in religious rule.

Where in our constitution does it say that we should go to war to force democracy on countries. I can’t find it.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:06:43

“i remember I remember I remember” keep the mantra up cause that is all you have. Measton, yensoy and others are correct in the summation. NOT what you have been told by the MSM then or now as we/HBB are unveiling.

It is funny how you “remember ” and believe in what they told you Then, but now you see it for what it is in regards to housing/banking. Why the disconnect?

 
 
Comment by Al
2009-08-19 06:57:27

“What did Americans gain from an unaffordable war in Iraq…”

Tin foil hat on,

What the US government got was a thinning out of young men who have an interest in weapons. Without jobs, the idle hands of young men have a tendency to take up arms. Better to have said arms pointed at an ‘enemy’ than risk them going revolutionary.

I originally came up with this theory to explain why Saddam thought it was a good idea to start Gulf War I. I don’t see any reason why Bush would take a page out of Saddam’s book.

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Comment by polly
2009-08-19 07:53:05

Well, I actually do think that is a little tin foil hat in the US, but scare the bejeesus out of me if you think about all the young men with no marriage prospects in China and what their government is going to do with them. Of course, some of them are lines up to be the sole support of two aging parents and 4 already aged granparents, but they still may end up in an army and pointed at something we would very much like them to leave alone.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-19 08:36:47

they still may end up in an army and pointed at something we would very much like them to leave alone. There is a huge patch of country just north of the Middle Kingdom that is in the process of emptying itself out. It is as if the population in that other nation has lost interest in its future & is failing to produce replacements. See this Russian “Demotivator” style poster here. AFAIK, the caption reads, “One more generation, and it’s over”

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-19 08:53:34

Al,

Only recently has the DOD relaxed enlistment criteria in the slightest. These kids are top notch. I spoke w/ a recruiter the other day and he said that only about 15% of males from 18 to 25 actually qualify.

HS grad. NO drug busts of any kind. NO criminal record. Good driving record ( after all, they’re going to trust you w/ some pretty… expensive equipment! ) Oh.., and there’s that ‘pesky’ PT things a huge percentage of gamer/couch potatoes can’t seem to pass?

Don’t start me on security clearances!

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-19 08:55:04

Don’t start me on security clearances! Please elaborate. Doesn’t a really bad credit record prevent service people from holding particular jobs in the military?

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-19 09:14:12

Hey DinOR

“These kids are top notch. I spoke w/ a recruiter the other day and he said that only about 15% of males from 18 to 25 actually qualify.”

I wasn’t trying to imply that the military was soaking up people that were otherwise unfit for anything else. The gamer/couch potato class, at worst, will pick up a gun to rob a convenience store. Those 15% of males that can make the cut could well be the same ones that would figure out how to organize the other unemployed malcontents.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-19 10:11:06

tresho,

Oh yes it does! In fact, in today’s don’t ask, don’t tell world, so you’re GAY! ( So WHAT! ) Used to be gays were susceptible to black mailing for fear of being outed.

Now they’re much more concerned about people selling classified info to “catch up on bills”. Personally I’ve never seen it. ( The Ruskies paid notoriously cheap! )

No idea what extremists would pay? 78 virgins in the after-life? Further, a clearance ( once granted ) was hardly -ever- checked up on? I mean you’d have to be a lowly Captain living in the nicest part of DC and driving fine cars and seen all over town w/ gold diggers to so much as raise an eyebrow. Now, it’s more like clearances are “conditional”.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 08:09:30

+ 1 Ben…

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Comment by exeter
2009-08-19 06:19:47

The poor banks!!!!!!! Poor Haliburton!!!! Poor Israel(gag)!!! Poor Dough-head Bush!!!!

We should take up a collection for these helpless victims.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-19 06:45:20

There’s that Israel thing again..
Why don’t you go find the nearest WWll memorial and spit on it.. Or just find a US flag and burn it.. same difference.

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Comment by exeter
2009-08-19 07:13:25

First victimhood then sanctimoniousness…. What’s next?

 
Comment by rms
2009-08-19 07:42:01

“…same difference.”

You need to switch to decaf, joey.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-19 07:55:52

Johnathan Pollard what?
USS Liberty what?

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-19 08:01:58

Or just find a US flag and burn it

“I’d rather wrap myself in the Constitution and burn the flag, than wrap myself in the flag and burn the Constitution”

Just sayin’…

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-19 08:16:48

Why don’t you go find the nearest WWll memorial and spit on it.. Or just find a US flag and burn it.. same difference.

Eh?

No, it’s not the same difference. It’s entirely different.

I’m not even sure what Ex’s somewhat cryptic remark meant, but disparaging Israel’s policies and its population or overseas allies are different things altogether.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-19 08:47:40

“I’d rather wrap myself in the Constitution and burn the flag, than wrap myself in the flag and burn the Constitution”

Interesting quote. At first I thought “Damn good quote!” and wanted to ask the source.

But then I realized - what’s the difference? The problem is this - people have recently associated “patriotism” and “love of country” with “follow our current government/president/whatever”, which is what’s wrong.

Being a patriot isn’t wrong. Loving our country, including the flag which represents it, isn’t wrong. Those aren’t any different than loving the constitution.

Blindly following our government leaders is what’s wrong.

The constitution *is* the core of our country, by definition. The flag *is* representative of our country, by definition. So the two - by definition - stand for the same thing. The “odd thing out” - the thing that we should not blindly stand for is not the flag nor the constitution, but our leadership.

Not saying that our leadership is wrong (at various times it has vary degrees of wrongness), just that that’s the one thing of the three to which patriotism does not apply.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-19 09:00:26

VaBeyatch,

It may be beneficial if we were to provide the wiki link to the U.S.S Liberty ( who’s sailors are just NOW getting recognition! ) so we may bring that to light?

In short it was an intelligence ship deployed to the Persian Gulf during the 6-Day War in.. ‘67? Anyway they were strifed by Israeli fighters and nearly sunk as the Israeli’s were concerned they would give away their surprise advantage and positions. I believe 38 U.S sailors were killed in the attack.

Now their sons have taken up the fight to have their service recognized. So it’s been hushed up for… awhile.

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 11:10:14

The flag is nothing but a symbol which is co-opted by many for political or other purposes. The constitution is the protection we have from would be dictators, the majority mob, the wealthy ect.

The fact that people in this country can burn the flag in political protest just makes the remaining copies a more powerful symbol of democracy and free speech. When it’s used to suppress political discussion or rally support for wrong headed wars then it’s a rag.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-19 11:15:43

“First victimhood then sanctimoniousness…. What’s next?”

Crapping his own pants to punish those around him?

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-19 11:21:16

At first I thought “Damn good quote!” and wanted to ask the source.

So the two - by definition - stand for the same thing.

I heard that quote during one of the infuriating debates over a flag burning amendment.

The difference between the two is almost a parable of the American psyche.

The Constitution has to be read and requires thought, but the flag is a pretty picture.

Now don’t get me wrong, I feel reverence and deep gratitude for what the flag represents - country, sacrifice, honor - but I also know that the Constitution is our contract with the government and our public servant’s adherence to that contract is what ultimately protects us from despotism.

The flag is a symbol of that trust.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 08:13:43

There’s that Israel thing again ??

Well then, make your argument in favor Joey…Lets hear it…

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Comment by rms
2009-08-19 23:48:52

“Well then, make your argument in favor Joey…Lets hear it…”

+1 Exactly. How does this “autistic adoption” benefit me?

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 10:08:49

JOey
lets see.. hates bush hates israel hates banks hates war hates Halliburton.. blah blah … 5 minutes of my life i’ll never get back..

1. It sure seemed that he hated Obama as much or more than Bush
2. I think more than one of us on this board hate banks and TARP and the fact that GS was allowed to become a bank without ever paying FDIC dues or following the rules at the last minute so it could receive government candy. Then it was allowed to exit with minimal pain and pay out record bonuses earned with our tax payer dollars. We hate the fact that it got preferrencial treatment in the AIG bailout. So I hope every American hates banks at this moment.
3. You did notice that he previously worked for Reagan.

I think you show your true colors.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-08-19 07:42:51

I agree with a lot of what he says, but he should give his anti-Israel obsession a rest.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-08-19 05:09:30

Re-post. Florida “loses” population for the first time in 46 years. 56,000 people or some such thing. But I don’t entirely believe this. There is sort of a shadow population here, families living 2 and 3 to a house, dwellings rented in the name of a single person who has roommates, etc. However, if this is a trend, let it continue. Florida has a fragile environment that can’t really support an ever-growing population. Not to mention, if air conditioning weren’t readily available, this state would be toast.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/article1026447.ece

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 05:38:20

“Florida has a fragile environment that can’t really support an ever-growing population”.

Palmetto, I lived in Ft.Lauderdale from 91to96 off of Los Olas on a canal near Bahia Mar. My neighbor in his 80’s at that time, was an engineer for development in that area. The “Venice of America” it was/is called. He told me that back in the 30’s/40’s the New river area was a clear as a bell, you could see the bottom.

Needless to say you can’t see below the surface there now. A development like that would never fly again, we have screwed up plenty through the years.

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-19 06:01:41

Hey, wmbz, maybe we ran into each other a time or two. I lived in Ft. Lauderdale from 1980 to 2000, worked in Miami most of the the time. Always kind of liked the Las Olas area. I heard the same things about the New River being clear as a bell.

I won’t get into the issue too much here, but just know that one of the things that has broken poor ole Palmy’s heart is the pollution of so many great bodies of water, both large and small, freshwater and salt.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 06:22:53

you and Carl Hiaasen, Palmy. …and me.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-19 07:19:37

I won’t get into the issue too much here, but just know that one of the things that has broken poor ole Palmy’s heart is the pollution of so many great bodies of water, both large and small, freshwater and salt.

Feel free to get into the issue — it’s a cryin’ shame, and you know as well as anybody that a whole lot of pollution and destruction of watersheds can be traced directly to real estate development. Development, like finance, has been too focused on short-term results and short-term profit-taking at the expense of the longview.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:17:48

Linked to RE dev and corporate biz ability to dump toxic residue from their factories with impunity, willy nilly.

 
 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-19 10:04:58

I grew up in East Central Florida. It was idealic. Clean water, you could catch enough fish in any body of water for a daily meal. I spent much of my time playing with other kids in pristine forests. We would pick blackberries weekly and a friends mother would make pies.

That’s all gone now, and will not come back in my lifetime. All due to overdevelopment.

Of course recent immigrants expound that life is never as good as when you were a kid. And the shopping is much better now. And my parents came down here so why shouldn’t other people?

I say goodbye & good riddance.

 
 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-08-19 06:31:36

But I don’t entirely believe this.

Me either..I was stationed at MacDill AFB in the late 90’s. Crowded as hell. I can only imagine how it is now. Alot of bumper stickers telling tourists to go home. I felt their pain..

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-19 09:06:02

Stpn2me,

Totally Off Thread, but have YOU heard about the new PFT Standards? It’s been in the AF Times but only referred to in a generic sense.

I know they are cutting the age brackets in HALF and changing the Body Composition to a 35″ Waist for a perfect score etc. but NO mention of the 1.5 Mile Run brackets! Any word at ALL out there in the field? We’re Air Guard so we’ll have to jump through the same hoops. Well, not ‘quite’, we’ll only have to do it once a year.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-19 09:33:01

Chair Force????? And all this time we presumed you were a soldier.

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-19 10:14:28

exeter,

Oh GOD no! In fact, most of ‘my’ Guard Unit is almost exclusively Navy guys. Even a lot of the gals are ex-Navy. Mostly aviators.

And for ‘me’, that’s a good thing. We kind of operate like a Navy Squadron and a lot of the Chair Force stuff gets kind of, well… swept under the carpet?

Likely if your father was a soldier ( he’ll hope his son had better sense?

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Comment by exeter
2009-08-19 10:46:14

Good place for chair force “stuff”. Under the rug, in the garbage, where ever.

Soldier? I did my patriotic duty and served in the US Army and pulled duty on Sheppard AFB. The chairforce boys are lightduty to say the least. Witchita Falls was an interesting Gunsmoke and Tumbleweed type of place but I was happy to get away from the chair force whiners.

FTA.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 12:16:05

exter,

When I was in the Army stationed at Ft Lewis, WA, I drove a 2-1/2 ton. Whenever an officer heard one of us say FTA he would respond “Future Truckers of America, correct solider?” Of course, we would respond, yes sir both of us grinning at each other.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-19 12:23:46

That’s beautiful. I was waiting for someone to catch it and of all people….. ;)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:09:32

Chinese stock shares are off by about 20 pct so far this month. Wasn’t that the percentage amount by which the US stock market crashed on Black Monday (Oct 19, 1987)?

It is interesting to note the WSJ article’s mention of the Chinese government’s tightening measures as a cause of the stock market decline. Tighter credit tends to be deflationary, and deflation is good for creditors, bad for debtors (with the possible exception of the case where the debtors are also major customers).

But no worries — we have been assured by the IMF that the global economic recovery is underway. Further, the Asian economies are decoupled from the rest of the world, so no worries.

* WALL STREET JOURNAL
* ASIA MARKETS
* AUGUST 20, 2009

China Leads Declines in Asia

By COLIN NG IN SINGAPORE and CHRIS OLIVER IN HONG KONG

Shanghai stocks dropped 4.3% Wednesday, leading a broad Asian selloff for the second time this week, amid concerns over further tightening in credit conditions and a lack of market-supportive measures from Beijing.

Chinese resource companies posted some of the biggest losses, particularly copper producers, tracking a decline in metals prices and pointing to uncertainty surrounding the Chinese economy.

“Investors are worried about whether the [Chinese] government will adopt further tightening measures,” said Ben Kwong, chief operating officer of KGI Securities in Hong Kong.

China’s benchmark Shanghai Composite index is now down about 20% since its Aug. 4 peak. Also in China, the Shenzhen Composite Index was off 4.9%.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:18:09

We thank thee, O Great and Powerful Oz, for declaring the end to the global recession!

BizTimes dot com
Milwaukee and Southeast Wisconsin Business News
Tuesday, August 18, 2009

IMF economist says global recession is over

The global recession is over and a recovery has begun, Olivier Blanchard, the top economist for the International Monetary Fund (IMF), said today.

“The turnaround will not be simple,” Blancard (SIC) wrote in an article released by the IMF. “The crisis has left deep scars, which will affect both supply and demand for many years to come.”

Economic growth is on the way for most countries, Blancard said, but it will not be strong enough to reduce unemployment for a while. Growth will be highly dependent on government stimulus from fiscal and monetary policies, he said.

The stock market reacted by bouncing back today after a steep sell-off on Monday. The largest local gainers this morning in the BizTimes Stock Index were Joy Global (up $1.38 to $39.26) and Bucyrus International Inc. (up $1.19 to $31.33). The largest decliners this morning were Wisconsin Energy Corp. (down 39 cents to $44.35) and A.O. Smith Corp. (down 13 cents to $37.86).

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 06:02:19

“IMF economist says global recession is over”

Yep, another disconnected dingle berry, the IMF is so distanced from reality, no need to pay any attention to there wrong headed prognostications. In their world money comes from thin air and the pit is bottomless, never mind the destruction of currencies.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 08:02:41

Why doesn’t the MSM just tell the truth about the “recovery”. The stock market has been going up because Goldman Sachs and all of the other corrupt “leaders” are making it go up - not because of “green shoots” and “cash for clunkers” and a “jobless recovery” and a “housing bottom” and all of the other lame excuses they try to pass as headlines for the run-up. Just tell the truth, no need to make things up all the time.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:22:00

According to the same msm, some Auto Dealers are suspending the C4c program because of way to much red tape, and they aren’t getting their money, yet.

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Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 05:31:43

Speaking of China…

Fast Money’s Joe Terranova inviting a guest to go “down under”:

www dot youtube.com/watch?v=4bwXOdFmDLY

“Stocks, people, stocks!!!”

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-19 11:19:34

I can’t stand that guy. He’s nothing but a shill for oil, amongst other things.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:33:13

A strong dollar is very good for creditors who are owed dollars, and also for maintaining the dollar’s reserve currency status.

Viewed in this light, the Chinese stock market crash appears good for sustaining the symbiosis. (But there are other lights in which it does not look so good…)

Currencies

Aug 19, 2009, 8:06 a.m. EST
Dollar and yen benefit from equity weakness
By William L. Watts, MarketWatch

LONDON (MarketWatch) — A China-led fall by global equity markets boosted the Japanese yen and provided a modest lift for the dollar Wednesday, as investors moved toward assets perceived as less risky, strategists said.

The Shanghai Composite Index closed down 4.3% and the Shenzhen Composite Index ended 4.9% lower, leading Asia to a mostly lower close. European shares also fell. Read about Asia stocks. Read Europe Markets.

U.S. stock index futures pointed to a lower open for Wall Street. See Indications.

“The weakness in equities, alongside a relatively light economic data calendar, does not bode well for pro-risk trading today,” wrote Naeem Wahid, a strategist at Bank of Scotland, in a note to clients.

Comment by arizonadude
2009-08-19 06:27:54

I guess goldman put some short positions on alcoa yesterday.Downgraded it due to valuation.I thought we were in a new bull market as of last friday.Funny how the big firms pump you up and then short the hell out tof the market.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:40:35

Decoupling, schmupling… I steadfastly maintain this was one of the dumbest theories to come out of the present episode in global economic history (though it may have helped Goldman’s bottom line to lure in greater fools with a foolish theory).

Searching For Reasons For China’s New Bear Market

Posted: August 19, 2009 at 5:47 am

The economy in China is allegedly getting better, but the stock market is getting much worse. It is now down 20% from its 2009 peak which, based on the Wall St. lexicon, is a bear market.

The Chinese may see something is their markets that is not readily apparent to the rest of the world, at least not as apparent as it may be to the Chinese. The most easy target is the nation’s $585 billion stimulus package. It is being blamed for bubbles in real estate and equities values.

The more likely cause is that it has dawned on the Chinese that a rebound in the country’s exports is much further away than many experts had imagined a month or two ago. There were signs that the recession in the US is ending and that it is ending even faster in Europe’s largest economies.

The “end” to the recession in the West may end up being a false promise. Concerns that consumer spending, deeply damaged by unemployment, may not begin to mend in any significant way until well into 2010 have begun to emerge among economists. The US economy will need to rely on exports to help it recover. Some of those exports will compete with goods China is selling to the rest of the world. That could hurt the economy of the world’s most populous nation even more.

Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-19 05:58:59

Interesting.
The US always prided themselves in producing quality products, from soap to clothes.
China produces cheap trinkets that are of mediocre quality at best, but they are cheap.
The rest of the world is not like the US. People like to buy things that last with their modest wages. It is not uncommon for people to have 1 or 2 sets of clothes, and wash them constantly, and expect them to last more than a season.
so, at the end of the day, they are smart enough to realize that buying a cheap chinese trinket, that will last a season, is more expensive than buying a quality product that will last a couple of years.
Now, is the US up to that challenge? I have had a lot of excellent US products over the years, that have lasted quite a bit of time, and replaced them with chinese counterparts that where marginally cheaper (30%), but lasted only 10% of what the US product lasted. I am not talking rockets here, but everyday items like towels, clothes, shoes, etc.
The big question is if we are going to get out of this, are we going to leverage our quality, and know how, or just play possum?

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-19 06:14:19

I couldn’t agree more with your post. The most expensive hardware I ever purchased was a made-in-China hasp at Home Depot. The screws stripped within 2 minutes. I couldn’t be bothered making the return for a couple of bucks. Found something old but US made workable at a local garage sale.

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Comment by packman
2009-08-19 06:32:41

FWIW - China makes a mix of products - some very high quality. E.g. Most of Thomasville’s high-end furniture is made in China.

In general - things are just “less expensive” when made in China. Often that means cheap stuff (they do have quality control issues), but also good stuff.

Most of our electronics is made in China these days; at least manufactured anyhow. Outsourcing of engineering even is increasing.

 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-19 06:40:06

I have seen a shift of manufacturing products.
Initially when I started in IT, most products where manufactured here in the US. Most of those products will still function as intended. I have Cabletron switches, and Bay networks Hubs manufactured in the mid ’90s that still work albeit at the constraints of the technology of the time.
I just got rid of an HP LH Plus server!. It was built in 1996 in the US. That is 13 years of non-stop service in a server environment.
Then they went and “cheapened” the products, and instead of making them in the US, they made them anywhere from Malaysia to China.
After this shift happened, those products life span were about 3 to 4 years before all sorts of gremlins started cropping up. Bad fans, CPU’s, etc. I have had more problems with the newer servers, than with the legacy ones. Same for Cisco equipment.
You might say that the products cost less. In fact they cost about the same, even a bit more. I guess that the difference in manufacturing cost went to the CEO’s bonus.
It is the same with outsourcing to India or China. You might get a boost in revenue initially, but the cost of bad image, and bad customer relations will impact your bottom line in the end. But the CEO will have long gone away, with a “successfull accomplishment” under his belt.

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-19 07:33:59

“I just got rid of an HP LH Plus server!. ”

We retired one of these boat anchors from our lab environment. Nearly pulled my back out trying to lift it onto a cart.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-19 09:59:48

I’ve personally owned and worked with Cabletron hardware. It wasn’t cheap. You must compare apples to apples. Don’t compare the huge enterprise cabletron chassis to the cisco edge switch. Also, with gigabit and 10gig networks, the chips run MUCH hotter and the boxes more dense, so the RPMs on those 1.75″ fans (1 rack unit) have to be cranked up to high speeds, which tear up faster.

China has brought me really cheap DPSS laser toys. 200mw for $200. If it burns up in a year, I don’t care. American company would cost $7000+ for same device. It’s the choice of nothing versus something. Same with galvos.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-19 10:00:55

Sorry it wasn’t cheap when new. I got all my cabletron stuff on eBay, after messing with it at work where they paid around $1,000,000 to put 500 people on a 10 megabit network :-)

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-19 11:28:27

“FWIW - China makes a mix of products - some very high quality. E.g. Most of Thomasville’s high-end furniture is made in China.”

I disagree with this statement. In my experience, China doesn’t make any high quality “American” stuff. It’s only their own things like hand pounded wok’s, and “China” that are of high quality. Don’t be surprised when that sofa starts squeaking and really loosening up- or falling apart altogether.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-19 12:11:25

Maybe. It’s a dining room set though. I’ve had it for 3 years with no problems so far at least.

IMO the biggest determining factor of course is the quality control mechanism(s). If it’s something from an American company (or any company with a good eye towards quality), and the company takes the right steps to ensure good manufacturing quality (tight specs, thorough testing, factory visits, etc) then things made in China can be of good quality for a lower price. I know it’s a pain though, with lots of extra overhead costs.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:32:58

Packman, but how often do you sit at the DR table? Not often I guess.

I have to say, I haven’t seen any really good furnishing from Thomasville in their high end line that doesn’t look cheap if you tip it over. Seriously, it costs to much for it to have just some spit and shine all over it to Dazzle you into thinking it is a well made product. Like anything, it is hyped until you after you walk out the door.

Found a little settee on ebay yrs ago, got it shipped cheap via GreyHound-which by the way if your item is chair size or about, this is the cheapest way to ship stuff With insurance.
I would much rather use a skilled carpenter to build me something these days than buy a cheap item. Sometimes the best is local. And you keep someone in your community working.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 06:30:33

There has been a guy on CNBC for two days in a row bragging about his company that makes sleeping bags in the USA for less than they would cost if they were made in China. You just know the quality must absolutely suck if the bags are being put head-to-head costwise with a Chinese product. Perhaps American companies making crappy cheap crap could be the future of our industrial production segment. Because labor costs are more than in China then even cheaper materials and other corners would have to be cut and what kind of pathetic crap are you left with. So much for the good old days of high quality American products.

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Comment by Northeastener
2009-08-19 08:22:57

You just know the quality must absolutely suck if the bags are being put head-to-head costwise with a Chinese product.

With the right manufacturing automation, lean processes and factory layout, IT technology, and a low cost-of-living geographic location, I am willing to bet the quality surpasses and the costs are very competitive with Asian-made goods.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 09:34:15

Sorry. No way in hell a litte “IT technology” is going to make up for a dollar-a-day workforce when it comes to the bottom line. I also suspect that all of the materials are sourced from china because that is where materials come from now. Have not ever seen one of his sleeping bags - just speculating here using a little (that’s all I have) common sense.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-19 10:02:23

Is there a difference between made in china or made by robots? The wealthy factory owner of the robots might spend all his gains on fancy artwork and yacht, while the Chinese workers might buy lots of iphones.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-19 10:15:28

In theory someone has to design & engineer the robots, manufacture and sell them, and maintain them over time.

Plus, if the robots allow for lower costs and lower costs increase demand, someone has to build and man the factories to meet the new demand, as opposed to building them in China.

Plus, in designing and engineering the robots, new skills and insights are produced leading potentially to new and innovative products. Not to mention creating robots for other functions.

So actually, using robots is wildly different from an economic point of view than manufacturing in China.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2009-08-19 12:08:49

Is there a difference between made in china or made by robots?

Lol… from a macroeconomic standpoint, if we’re producing and consuming locally, then the money flows stay within our local economy instead of fueling the trade deficit. Better yet, if the price and quality is competitive, then maybe we can sell our goods in other markets for a change. Or would you rather continue to borrow money from foreigners to fund purchases of goods made overseas and sold here?

No way in hell a litte “IT technology” is going to make up for a dollar-a-day workforce when it comes to the bottom line.

Nice straw man arguement… I never said a little IT tech will make up for a dollar-a-day workforce. I said a combination of things, including automation, IT tech, and a low-cost-of-living region can improve productivity to the point that it is profitable to serve local markets vs. sourcing to a low-cost overseas manufacturer. It’s called productivity improvement and a dollar-a-day worker can’t produce nearly as much with consistent quality as a robot.

 
 
Comment by tgun
2009-08-19 08:37:25

amen brother!

Been dealing with “stuff” made in China since joining this organization (first letter after “E” followed by 1st letter after “D”)…

Have had product quality issues due to components that don’t meet specifications, aren’t plated (then they oxidize over time and fail intermittently in the field), etc.

Been very frustrating to deal with, one issue after another.

Had a local customer request that I fill out the ARRA 1605 Made in America forms for products they purchase from us. Was very discouraging since none of the 5 skus she inquired on are made in the USA anymore. Some were recently transferred to China just a few months ago (and the manufacturing jobs were cut of course after this transfer).

Seems like we are a shell of what we once were… (notice I didn’t say shill).

I keep clamouring that they bring back domestic production, I argue the cost savings are never realized and the loss of customer good-will is priceless. The 30% cost savings touted over the past years gave way to an actual savings average of 6%. Now, factor in the quality issues, warranty claims, customer ill-will, and the made in chindia argument no longer makes financial sense.

Oh, I forgot that the PTB only look at short-term gain (i.e. what can we do to boost stock prices and improve our balance sheet this week/month/quarter?) instead of the 5+ year plan.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-19 10:14:42

My relative just told me her Time Warner issue was dealt with by someone in the Phillipines. I’m ready to start cancelling services in protest. I wonder if Verizon sends their customer serrvice overseas now too.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-19 12:54:52

The Phillipines seems to be the latest fad in terms of outsourcing. I had an issue with my XM radio (I had canceled but they still charged me), and the call center for ‘customer service’ (!) was in the Phillipines. The level of job destruction in this country is phenomenal. I don’t see any policies addressing this. We’re stuck on propping up wealthy bankers and equities. Until there is something, I expect the economy to continue it’s downward spiral into the abyss.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:37:34

HR for my company got outsourced to PI and the language Plus the knowledge they lack due to their inability to access our back offices pages, makes for really bad HR information.
It is a waste of time and money.
Plus they don’t have a vested interest to learn to help us find answers, why should they, they don’t work for the same corp.

 
 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 09:02:54

The rest of the world has been bitten by the “cheap & disposable” bug too, unfortunately.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-08-19 09:14:06

Pinch,

Good points. Without any political motivations ( purely “sanity driven” ) I’m actively trying to get Made in China out of my life.

Bit by bit I’m replacing the MEW-bling w/ products that actually work. True to form, it’s mostly being done through garage sales etc. Not an easy task, but I feel it’s worth it.

At the rate I’m replacing MIC lightbulbs ( I could get a CANDLE to last longer! )

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-19 06:18:07

China’s market down only 20%? Ours fell 50%, their market will fall 50% … Short it.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 06:28:55

SSEC (main China index) fell 70% last year actually. Its current 20% fall is off the rebound.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-19 06:51:45

oops.. well, don’t short it. I thought they were lagging behind.

It can’t see how the Eastern tail could ever wag the Western dog, and yet a lot of people seem to think they might..

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:14:24

Who moved my green shoots? (But I see nothing here that an ongoing rally on all the major US stock market indexes can’t fix…)

Indications
Aug 19, 2009, 7:36 a.m. EST
U.S. stock index futures point lower

By William L. Watts, MarketWatch

LONDON (MarketWatch) — U.S. stock index futures fell Wednesday, pointing to a lower open for Wall Street following another in a recent string of sharp drops by Chinese shares.

Futures on the S&P 500 index fell 9 points to 980.60, while Nasdaq 100 futures dropped 18.25 points to 1,568.75. Futures on the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 74 points.

U.S. stocks posted a modest rebound Tuesday, a day after taking their biggest tumble in six weeks. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (INDU 9,218, +82.60, +0.90%) advanced 0.9%, the S&P 500 Index (SPX 989.67, +9.94, +1.01%) gained 1% and the Nasdaq Composite (COMP 1,956, +25.08, +1.30%) logged a 1.3% gain.

Strategists were unimpressed by the bounce.

“The move higher in equities and commodities yesterday [was] relatively small. The S&P 500 was not even able to retest 992.40, Monday’s breakout level,” wrote Naeem Wahid, strategist at Bank of Scotland.

The weak tone, accompanied by a relatively light economic data calendar, “does not bode well for pro-risk trading today,” Wahid said, in a note to clients.

After focusing for several weeks on better-than-expected earnings data, investors are now turning their attention back to the overall macroeconomic picture, said Joshua Raymond, a strategist at City Index.

Despite some signs of recovery, investors aren’t convinced the scale of the market’s rally since March is justified by the global economic picture, he said.

China’s top stock markets saw heavy falls Wednesday, with the Shanghai Composite Index falling 4.3% and the Shenzhen Composite Index ending 4.9% lower. Resource companies led the way down.

Elsewhere in Asia, Hong Kong’s Hang Seng Index fell 1.7%, while Japan’s Nikkei Stock Average of 225 companies closed 0.8% lower.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:20:54

Does anyone else besides me find a bit of disharmony between news that Chinese resource stocks are leading their stock market correction and assurances from the IMF that the recession is over? I don’t claim any special expertise in such matters, but wouldn’t one expect resource stocks to go up at the end of a recession?

Comment by palmetto
2009-08-19 05:25:29

I don’t know, but I’d be willing to bet that China is a whole lot worse off than we’re being told.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-08-19 07:50:09

+1000

Who is buying their crap now?

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-19 10:14:55

I keep offering $300 for a RGB diode based laser show projector on ebay that they want $1800 for, but they keep rejecting me :-(

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:39:22

keep trying, VA! good luck!

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 07:59:14

I don’t have any reliable sources for the following tidbit, so take it as conjecture:

I think that there’s a lot of social unrest in China. And, in the coming months and years, there will be even more. People have been losing jobs in export-oriented factories, and, in more than a few cases, they’ve gone on rampages.

Down the road, China will have quite a problem with the shortage of girls. That’s going to cause quite a stir among the young men who can’t find wives.

The current social unrest is not being reported in the Western media, and that’s because the Chinese government has done a good job of keeping the word from getting out. Who knows how long they’ll be able to keep the suppression going.

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Comment by measton
2009-08-19 11:18:59

Down the road, China will have quite a problem with the shortage of girls. That’s going to cause quite a stir among the young men who can’t find wives.

I’m surprised China hasn’t volunteered to send them over to Afghanastan for military training.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 12:33:54

“Down the road, China will have quite a problem with the shortage of girls. That’s going to cause quite a stir among the young men who can’t find wives.”

They’ve got two hands.

(kidding!)

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:41:37

I dont’ think the road is that long.
I suspect that within 10 yrs, maybe even 5.
There is already lots and lots of kidnappings of boys
for families that want a son, and kidnappings of girls
to set up for adoption.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 15:46:34

Exactly. The disproportionate ratio of men to women is going blow up in their faces. Probably within the next ten years.

This means either large scale war or social upheaval or both. And they are big enough to suck the rest of the world into the problem.

Oh, and they are on a serious military modernization tear and they’ve decided to adopt general western military doctrines.

And something else to consider: Hon Hai is the world’s largest mfg of ALL consumer electronics. FoxConn is their public face. (for those of you who may have heard of them) Hon Hai’s total output is larger than the next 10 competitors…. combined.

Almost everything electronic you touch is made by Hon Hai. Headquartered in China.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:24:06

Don’t know nothin’ about no rationing, but Obamacare is D.O.A. Long live your grandma!

* The Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* AUGUST 18, 2009, 7:16 P.M. ET

ObamaCare Is All About Rationing

Overspending is far preferable to artificially limiting the availability of new procedures and technologies.

By MARTIN FELDSTEIN

Although administration officials are eager to deny it, rationing health care is central to President Barack Obama’s health plan. The Obama strategy is to reduce health costs by rationing the services that we and future generations of patients will receive.

The White House Council of Economic Advisers issued a report in June explaining the Obama administration’s goal of reducing projected health spending by 30% over the next two decades. That reduction would be achieved by eliminating “high cost, low-value treatments,” by “implementing a set of performance measures that all providers would adopt,” and by “directly targeting individual providers . . . (and other) high-end outliers.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:25:14

The dark lining to the silver cloud: If the current Secretary of State ever gets elected CIC, we can expect a resurrection of her earlier efforts to tackle this issue.

 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-19 05:49:27

I would wholeheartedly agree with universal health care as long as it met 2 requirements….
1) that we all get the exact SAME plan as our congresscriters.
2) That no Illegal Allien (immigrant) is ever allowed to use the system.
For all this talk comparing the healthcare system with the one in Canada, if you are a visitor, or not a citizen, you need to buy insurance.
But then, neither of these conditions will happen, so no, I will not support any plans to reform it, until such is the case.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 06:21:02

1) ‘that we all get the exact SAME plan as our congresscriters’.

As you stated that will NEVER happen.

One of our (S.Carolina) congressmen was in town yesterday. He is with out any doubt the most ignorant man in Washington. James Cylburn, he was comparing health care to cars. He said all Americans will get a Ford, if you want a Lincoln then you have to pay for it, of course they get a Lincoln, and do NOT pay for it!

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:43:22

Vote him out. What are you waiting for?

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Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-19 06:33:06

2) “That no Illegal Allien (immigrant) is ever allowed to use the system.”

I like this idea, but it would be a tough sell I think. Perhaps provide health care only in emergency situations with the understanding it includes a one way trip back to their home country.

Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 07:59:39

I’m thinking we should make whoever employs them completely responsible for their healthcare. I don’t have any idea how to implement this (since the employer will deny hiring them), but there has to be a balance between not covering them and protecting the rest of the population when they catch some epidemic such as TB or swine flu and don’t see a doctor.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 16:43:41

TB has made a resurgence in the southern states as a direct result of illegal immigrants.

You can Google it from reputable news sources.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 16:58:07

Yeah it might be a double post but…

TB has seen a resurgence in the southern states as direct result of illegal immigration. You can Google this from reputable news sources.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 08:01:32

Here in Tucson, the U.S. Border Patrol has quite a presence at the University Medical Center. That’s the hospital that’s next to the University of Arizona.

In years past, it was quite popular with illegal aliens who’d ring up huge bills, then not pay. That began to change when UMC started reporting them to the immigration authorities.

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Comment by nycjoe
2009-08-19 08:16:40

This might be a fair provision. I was cared for by the NHS after a slip on a ferry to Wales. They stitched me up and sent me on my way. But if I had been been actually been hiding out, living in Holyhead (this takes some imagining), well, would I have been shocked if that meant the gig was up?

So this tells you a black market med system would arise, because no illegal would seek mainstream treatment, unless carted to a hospital after an accident. There would be some sad stories … but open borders have become a sadder story.

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Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-19 11:13:51

question - did they charge you for your treatment? If not, then not sure what the difference would be between you being treated in a different country or Mexicans being treated here.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:48:42

Again you guys, IF the people are working for someone who is paying them with a check and has their FICA,SS,Fed/State taxes etc taken out, and they are taken out, then they did pay for emerg care. At least. What don’t you guys get about that?

Seriously, the people I know over the years and corps that I don’t know, ALL take out taxes from whomever they are paying.
I agree that they should n’t be hiring those folks that are not going through the process of legalization. But they do hire them and our gov/corporate own gov allows for this.
Recall the meat packing plants in middle flyover America that were raided? Well, that is Agri biz, Conagra biz CONagra.get it?

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-19 15:49:35

“working for someone who is paying them with a check and has their FICA,SS,Fed/State taxes etc taken out”

Using whose social security number? Yours - mine?

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-08-19 08:38:16

The Health care system is already rationing IMHO . I remember when the Northridge Earthquake hit ,the Insurance Companies send out field underwriters out from other States to underestimate claims .The idea was that they wouldn’t have a emotional attachment to the people or the State.

They were giving these people big bucks to go in and hassle people on earthquake damage ,delay claims ,and other
bad faith ploys to not pay on the liability ,because at that time the
earthquake insurance policies were somewhat good . Now the
earthquake policies are designed to not pay on items that are
usually costly to repair in a earthquake ,with many exclusions .

Back to Health Care ……If you think this same industry that does everything it can to skirt a claim or underestimate it on
property damage is good faith when it comes to heath care ,than just trust them with your life if you want .

Maybe health care should be non profit ,after all it not like a piece of property where you can delay replacing the damage
while you haggle with the Insurance Company .

People are just stuck with a Health Care industry that calls the shot on price and treatment ,and you need a medical degree to
be able to determine if your getting your due . If you think that Doctors aren’t under pressure to go along in order to get paid ,than go ahead and think that they aren’t influenced by the insurance companies . A whole lot of paperwork is going on
these days ,and believe me the care has suffered because of
it. I have been around long enough to be able to compare the
current systems with the health care systems of the past ,but people will just rack me off and say I’m bitter because of what happened to me recently .

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 16:47:03

You’re absolutely correct.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 14:08:59

“Perhaps provide health care only in emergency situations with the understanding it includes a one way trip back to their home country.”

That is a good idea, and I’d even expand it to care for any acute condition and all comers are verified for legal residency. There are 2 problems with this that I see:

1) The do gooders would never allow downtrodden immigrants to be treated this way.
2) If I got run over by a milk truck walking in my pajamas to check the mail I might wake up in Denmark, and my family hasn’t spoken Danish in 7 generations!

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:52:46

Dude, the Danes speak 5 languages fluently before they get out of high school and this has been policy for over 35 yrs that I know of, so if you do end up in Denmark, you will indeed have it better medically and you will understand them.

Good luck, Buh bye!
Oh, you haven’t been hit yet? just kidding!

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 17:31:30

Have you been to Denmark?

 
 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-19 07:46:12

1) that we all get the exact SAME plan as our congresscriters.
2) That no Illegal Allien (immigrant) is ever allowed to use the system.

Works for me.

Comment by tresho
2009-08-19 08:45:22

Works for me. Even places like Canada have ways to “work around” equality of access to their national/provincial health care. If you don’t think that Canadian politicians & other privileged elements of the population move to the head of the rationing queue, then you are hopelessly naive.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:55:20

Everyone still gets treated at the beginning of illness/injury without elite status. It is quite an achievement to lessen the cost of illness/injury at the beginning than at the end when it is so cost prohibitive.

Personal experience in CAN,Eur,S.Am, Asia over the yrs.

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-08-19 07:09:23

Does nobody here remember that Martin Feldstein is the same tool who insisted repeatedly that that the gov should start programs to prop up house prices, because that’s the only way to fix the economy? I guess his paymasters have assigned him to a new project. Like we should trust him. One should also understand that this is the Wall Street Journal, whose bias is clearly known.

There is already rationing going on in this country. And btw Obamacare is far from dead. They can use budget reconciliation to ram through healthcare, just as Bush did with his tax cuts.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-19 07:46:12

Martin Feldstein is the same tool …

Ad hominem alert. Someone can be wrong about one thing, but right about another. Let’s focus on the arguments, not the author or publication.

There is already rationing going on in this country.

Rationing by gov’t fiat is very different from rationing via the price system. If you’re talking about gov’t fiat, the fact that you’ve shot yourself in one foot is not a good argument for shooting the other.

They can use budget reconciliation to ram through healthcare

Lovely. We can’t get popular support for the bill, so let’s use procedural tricks.

Comment by oxide
2009-08-19 15:50:01

They can use budget reconciliation to ram through healthcare, just as Bush did with his tax cuts.

Lovely.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 08:05:49

One question no one in D.C. has answered about this convoluted sickness care boondoggle is how will it work, never mind how to pay for it.

Population of Canada - 31 million

Pop. of England - 60 million

Pop. of France - 61 million

Pop. of Germany - 82 million

Total = 234 million

Population of the U.S.of A. - 321 million

Each of the a fore mention countries are having problems with there systems and cost is a major part of it.

We have 100 million more people than all of those countries combined and no one has any idea how it can realistically be paid for. Nope no problem here, lets Ram it through.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 08:38:16

Here’s a summary I saw of the proposed health care plan:

It will be:
- written by a committee whose head says he doesn’t understand it,
- passed by a Congress that hasn’t read it,
- signed by a president who smokes,
- funded by a treasury chief who did not pay his taxes,
- overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and
- financed by a country that is nearly broke.

What could possibly go wrong?

(snarky but funny and apt in many respects)

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 09:13:39

Yep… Funny, sad and true.

 
 
Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 09:11:28

We have 100 million more people than all of those countries combined and no one has any idea how it can realistically be paid for.

Scale, my friend, scale. Get Costco to manage it.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 09:38:00

“Scale, my friend, scale. Get Costco to manage it”.

There you go, problem sol-ved!

Costco, Sams club, wal-mart etc… can handle everything from birth to death, at every day low prices.

Get a set of dentures, gallbladder or a wart removed while your car is serviced. Makes more sense than a gubmint plan.

 
Comment by rfw
2009-08-19 13:10:24

Idiocracy?

 
 
Comment by Al
2009-08-19 09:35:26

The number of people in each country is irrelevant, since they’re potential tax payers as well. If you’re looking for reasons why single payer health care won’t work in the US, think about broken tax systems, spending too much on war, excessive corruption, etc.

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Comment by dude
2009-08-19 14:10:58

Yo are so right, we just need all the producers to pay 50% income tax, regardless of healthy lifestyle choices and we could live in a healthcare utopia.

 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-19 10:27:08

Well it can be realistically paid for by:

1. Getting rid of the unnecessary tests doctors prescribe to avoid law suits and line their pockets.

2. Forcing people to pay the first $1000 of their doctors visits so they don’t run to the doctor for every little cold.

3. Getting rid of insurance companies and their wildly wasteful overhead.

4. Stop doing emergency surgery on the elderly when the surgery is as likely to kill them as what ever got them on the table in the first place.

5. Their are tons of other ideas out there.

And, AFTER the unnecessary costs are flushed out of the system, any difference can be paid for by increasing taxes.

So it absolutely can be done. It is just that there are too many special interests lining their pockets with the existing horribly inefficient system and too many people who will happily believe their lies because it jibes with their own ideological agendas for universal health care to ever happen in this country.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 14:58:01

3. Getting rid of insurance companies and their wildly wasteful overhead.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 17:03:51

Yes, the cost will be huge, but it seems everyone is conveniently forgetting to compare that to the cost of lost wages and productivity from being sick.

And despite a recent idiotic report that said prevention isn’t cost effective (nope, no spin there!), an ounce of prevention is always worth a pound of cure.

Always.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 07:32:37

Let’s see…Skyrocketing increases in the cost of health insurance, coupled with rapidly shrinking and/or disappearing paychecks. Yep, no problem here. Looks as secure as our financial system did a few years ago.

Comment by tgun
2009-08-19 08:47:54

Agreed, something needs to be done…

How about categorizing the for-profit health insurance companies as an oligopoly and regulating them like we do with the utility companies?

1) No pre-existing condition clause
2) Portability
3) Cafeteria plan (different levels of deductibles/coverages/copays)
4) Require all single employees to take health insurance they are offered by their employer (how many opt out because they are young/healthy/dumb? Try 15M or more).
5) Limit insurance company profit to 5% per year (instead of 20% many make today)
6) Limit medical malpractice lawsuit caps
7) Penalize idiots who use the emergency room for routine care, instead of their regular clinic/urgent care center
8) Consider similar plan for hospitals

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-19 07:39:21

Although administration officials are eager to deny it, rationing health care is central to President Barack Obama’s health plan.

I just don’t get this argument. In any finite system, there has to be some rationing of resources — the question is how much, and to what end. Perhaps Mr. Feldstein should perform a diagnostic check on the status quo before he starts fearmongering.

There’s already too much rationing in our current healthcare system, assloads of it — it’s called denial of service, denial of claims, denial of treatment. Care is rationed out because of coverage limits or “pre-existing conditions,” among other reasons. It happens both rightfully (cosmetic vanity procedures, for example) and wrongly (cancer treatments, for example). That doesn’t even touch the “rationing” that happens because people are either not insured or underinsured. Most annoyingly in the current scheme, corporate profit drives rationing at the expense of citizens’ health.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-08-19 16:28:57

Mr. Potter, the former CEO of Cigna conveyed many of your points on PBS’ Moyers Journal .

When asked, 4 Health Ins CEO’s told Congress they would continue rescinding policies. The video of the special hearing in on the Moyers Journal too. BIll Moyer’ health care coverage is well balanced and objective. Lots of interviews of people in the trenches.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 08:11:31

Health Insurance Benedict Arnold explains how sheep are herded, sheared– WARNING: May bust cherished ‘beliefs’ taught you by your puppet masters!

“The industry goes to great lengths to keep its involvement in these campaigns hidden from public view. I know from having served numerous trade group committees and industry-funded front groups, however, that industry leaders are full partners in developing strategies to derail any reform that might interfere with insurers’ ability to increase profits.”

“What I’m trying to do as I write and speak out against the insurance industry I was a part of for nearly two decades is to inform Americans that when they hear isolated stories of long waiting times to see doctors in Canada and allegations that care in other systems is rationed by ‘government bureaucrats’, SOMEONE ASSOCIATED WITH THE INDUSTRY WROTE THE ORIGINAL SCRIPT.”

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/potter.health.insurance/index.html?imw=Y&iref=mpstoryemail

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 08:16:26

anyone here getting a check?

 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-19 08:19:38

My question to this person would be….
If you worked 20 years for these people, and attained a high position within the industry, and they are as bad as you say, why on earth did you not do something about it? And if he did all of the things that he said, how could he wake up in the morning and take a look in the mirror?
What is his motive now? Revenge? Or did he get his golden handshake, and is no longer required to tow the line?

I think that the question should be asked, but is never even found in print, is who is to benefit with this bill? Who will make money off of the taxpayer? Why so much push?

I am all for healthcare reform, and having some parts of the system modified…. Socialized health care, been there, done that, and it sucks….

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 08:32:03

Scared of losing his health insurance?

“The higher I rose in the company, the more I learned about the tactics used to dump policyholders when they get sick, in order to increase profits and to reward their Wall Street investors. I could not in good conscience continue serving as an industry mouthpiece. And I did not want to be part of yet another industry effort to kill meaningful reform.”

They don’t teach you the tricks until you’re well ensconced in the system.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 08:37:13

He had an eye-opening moment when he went to a free health fair. People were waiting in long lines in the rain so they could be treated in animal stalls.

Here’s the whole story.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 08:34:46

Another good passage from the above story:

“What I’m trying to do as I write and speak out against the insurance industry I was a part of for nearly two decades is to inform Americans that when they hear isolated stories of long waiting times to see doctors in Canada and allegations that care in other systems is rationed by ‘government bureaucrats,’ someone associated with the insurance industry wrote the original script.”

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 11:21:42

God forbid we should have a cost benefit analysis in health care.

We need a system that pays for the basic stuff that works and if you want the bells and whistles then you buy a supplemental private insurance policy. Trust me there are a lot of things we are paying for that have little proven benefit.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-08-19 11:28:34

Isn’t the emphasis moving to preventative anyway?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:03:54

why on earth did you not do something about it? A
Because you don’t know until it is to late, then you have your ephiphany and Change. At least he/she is doing it now.
Day late and dollar short, but still.

PotBuyer, not enough.Ins corps still don’t want to pay for preventative ie: no mammogram or pap this yr. cause bcbs does not pay for Well women visits. But you will get your prostate fixed w/o question.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:36:15

It looks like the Plunge Protection Team has another busy day ahead of it:

Marketwatch dot com

Before the Bell
Countdown to the open:

Index Futures:

SP 500 978.60 -11.00 -1.11%

DOW 9,127 -80.00 -0.87%

NASDAQ 1,566 -21.00 -1.32%

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 06:06:13

DJI futures up 60 now - I wonder what’s going on?

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 06:07:30

Wait - maybe they aren’t. That’s what my Bloomberg link showed a minute ago, but I think that was a cache problem - I see other sources still show them down a lot.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 06:23:07

Not to worry, a less worse than expected report will pop up and “investor” confidence will miraculously go upward.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 06:34:29

That and a little help from Goldman Sachs’ killer PPT software that always manipulates the market with an upward bias. Goldman’s got your back!

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:05:15

Why are we/HBB the only ones who are noticing this
GS phenom?
Really bugs me. MSM has their head up the proverbial as s.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 16:06:17

I used to go on at length about stock market manipulation. Unlike many of the themes I have discussed here early and often (bailouts, too-big-to-fail, shadow inventory, etc), the MSM has largely ignored the Plunge Protection Team’s role in supporting the stock market. I don’t really have any direct evidence, either.

How do we know the market does not simply behave “as though” manipulated by an invisible hand (though not the one Adam Smith described)?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 05:44:39

Financial Times
German data fuel deflation fears

By Ralph Atkins in Frankfurt

Published: August 19 2009 11:32 | Last updated: August 19 2009 11:32

German producer prices have recorded their largest year-on-year fall since the second world war, highlighting the weakness of inflationary pressures across Europe.

Prices of industrial products were 7.8 per cent lower in July than 12 months earlier, the steepest such fall since records began in 1949, the German federal statistics office reported.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-08-19 07:44:20

Hooray! Now I will be able to buy that 40K Beamer for only 39K!

Comment by Northeastener
2009-08-19 08:34:16

Hooray! Now I will be able to buy that 40K Beamer for only 39K!

Not with the way the Euro is behaving against the Dollar… better to go Japanese luxury at this point because the currency is in your favor.

If you don’t believe me, compare pricing, performance, equipment and reliability of an Infiniti G37 against a BWM 335i or an Acura TL against a BMW 5-series.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:06:16

What is the diff $$$?
thanks,

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Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-19 06:20:18

PB, interesting article yesterday on deflation. It seems the only ones that should fear deflation are CEO’s, RE investors, debtors and our government.

Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 08:30:11

interesting article yesterday on deflation ??

Link ??

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-08-19 06:21:43

Obama backs off snitch plan, shuts down informer email site
August 18, 1:33 PMOrlando Republican Examiner

Some two weeks ago, in a two part article, I reported on the Obama Administration’s effort to collect information on individuals and groups that spoke in opposition to the President’s health care initiative. On the White House health care reform website, persons who received emails the Administration characterized as ‘fishy’ were encouraged to forward a copy to the government site.
After a public outcry at the Obama attempt to gather names and identifying information about his opponents, his minions have quietly backpedaled. Without making any kind of public pronouncement on the matter, the snitch mailbox has been shut down. While the ‘snitch’ email address still appears in the White House website, emails sent to it trigger the following response:

flag@whitehouse.gov
“SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO::
host mailhub-wh2.whitehouse.gov [63.161.169.140]:
550 5.2.1 … The email address you just sent a message to is no longer in service.We are now accepting your feedback about health insurance reform via:http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck”

The White House has created a new web page in which it solicits questions and suggestions about health care reform via email. However, it contains the following statement:

“Please refrain from submitting any individual’s personal information, including their email address, without their permission.”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 08:03:32

And to think that all I did was e-mail the White House flaggers a funny story. Here it is:

On Saturday, July 11, I attended a health care reform rally hosted by Congressman Raul Grijalva. Total attendance was around 500, which was pretty good for a 107-degree day in Tucson.

This event featured speakers who’d come from all over southern Arizona, including one nurse who’d come all the way from Bisbee. That’s 100 miles away from here.

While most in the audience gave the speakers the floor, there was a group of Tucson Tea Party counter-demonstrators in the back who would not keep quiet. Matter of fact, the lady standing next to me went back to ask them to stop talking. Twice. Apparently, they’d gotten into it with a man who was carrying a pro-health care reform sign.

The disruption attempt ended when a state senator took the stage and delivered his speech. At one point, he called the audience’s attention to the counter-demonstrators in the back. At that point, 500 heads turned around, and…

…the counter-demonstrators left shortly thereafter.

Okay, that was July 11. On Monday, July 20, I attended a house party in central Tucson. Since I get around by bicycle and a storm was moving in, I couldn’t stay very long.

But, while I was monitoring the weather from the host’s porch, I got to talking with a fellow who works for Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. We discussed the July 11 rally and the behavior of the counter-demonstrators. He said that his office gets numerous calls from the tea partiers and others like them. The word he used to describe the calls? Nasty. As in, frequent use of name-calling and words not used in polite company.

So, that’s what’s happening in southern Arizona.

Comment by measton
2009-08-19 11:27:54

So, that’s what’s happening in southern Arizona.

Not to mention they are showing up with guns to political events. IN order to show their support for democracy??? Hard to have a debate when you are getting shouted down by a well armed band of wackadoos.

John Stewart had a funny quote that they were conflating the first and the second amendment. I let my guns do the talking and they have a right to free speech.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 11:43:01

The aforementioned rally was held in the Tucson Convention Center, a city facility. You can’t bring your weaponry in unless you’re a sworn officer of the law.

BTW, I didn’t see any armed people, but that doesn’t mean that there weren’t armed plainclothes security types who blended in with the crowd.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 17:12:10

I’m curious what would happen if someone dressed in Arabic clothing showed up at a protest carrying an assault rifle. Or anywhere else in a ‘right-to-carry’ state, for that matter. Or is the right limited to ‘good ole boys’? I bet it is in practice.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 17:17:31

Thank god the Repubs don’t do anything like this.

Oh wait… Patriot Act 1 and 2 ring any (alarm) bells? Bush’s Executive Order wiretappings?

So you see, turn about is fair play. If they can’t eat it, they shouldn’t dish it. But bullies often think nobody will stand up to them. And kick their butts.

 
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-19 06:22:48

I should have added commodity producers.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 06:36:50

you left out porn stars.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-19 06:25:22

Why failing to mark bad assets to the market and bailing out insolvent banks makes 2009 look just like 1929 -

Let me remind everyone of the last time we played this game with unbridled, fraudulent credit creation: The 1920s.

After the ‘29 crash things seemed to stabilize. By the middle of 1930 all of the economists of the day predicted that the worst had been avoided and growth was just around the corner. The stock market had recovered to early 1929 figures and it appeared that we had stared into the abyss - but had “saved ourselves”. Among them:

“I see nothing in the present situation that is either menacing or warrants pessimism… I have every confidence that there will be a revival of activity in the spring, and that during this coming year the country will make steady progress.”
- Andrew W. Mellon, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury December 31, 1929

“I am convinced that through these measures we have reestablished confidence.”
- Herbert Hoover, December 1929

“[1930 will be] a splendid employment year.”
- U.S. Dept. of Labor, New Year’s Forecast, December 1929

“For the immediate future, at least, the outlook (stocks) is bright.”
- Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in Economics, in early 1930

“…there are indications that the severest phase of the recession is over…”
- Harvard Economic Society (HES) Jan 18, 1930

“There is nothing in the situation to be disturbed about.”
- Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon, Feb 1930

“The spring of 1930 marks the end of a period of grave concern…American business is steadily coming back to a normal level of prosperity.”
- Julius Barnes, head of Hoover’s National Business Survey Conference, Mar 16, 1930

“… the outlook continues favorable…”
- HES Mar 29, 1930

“… the outlook is favorable…”
- HES Apr 19, 1930

“While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed through the worst — and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There has been no significant bank or industrial failure. That danger, too, is safely behind us.”
- Herbert Hoover, President of the United States, May 1, 1930

“…by May or June the spring recovery forecast in our letters of last December and November should clearly be apparent…”
- HES May 17, 1930

“Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over.”
- Herbert Hoover, responding to a delegation requesting a public works program to help speed the recovery, June 1930

“… irregular and conflicting movements of business should soon give way to a sustained recovery…”
- HES June 28, 1930

“… the present depression has about spent its force…”
- HES, Aug 30, 1930

Notice anything similar to the pronouncements of Krugman, Cramer, Kneale, President Obama, Geithner, Bernanke and dozens more?

In 1930 they could not have been more wrong; by failing to immediately force the bad debt and bogus asset claims out into the open, clearing the system, government set the stage for a grueling decade that would prove the most difficult economically our nation has faced to date.

We are headed directly for the same outcome, for the same reason. History will repeat, not because it is destined to, but because in response to lying, cheating and fraud the same errors are being made today that were made then.

The view of all of the “great pundits and policy wonks”, including Bernanke, Geithner, Paulson, Summers and more is that if we “backstop” the credit system we can “muddle through.” The problem with such a thesis is that doing so requires a continual injection of borrowed money and leaves the system on life support, unable to spur the very economic recovery you need to get out of the hole.

Much of this error in thought process comes from the fact that all of these people going back to Rubin, Greenspan and more, had their hand in the creation of the policies and acts that led to the problem in the first place, including the lying - and therefore you’re asking someone to repudiate a policy they have espoused for 20 years or more.

That’s darn unlikely.

Unfortunately the math is never wrong and debt-based monetary systems require a sound and trustworthy web of intermediaries to function. We cannot obtain a strong, durable recovery without clearing the credit transmission mechanism, and doing that requires honest marks. That, in turn, mandates the closure of all the insolvent institutions, a colossal but inescapable task.

Yet it must be done if we want to return to economic prosperity, and if we fail to do so then we are simply one “event” away from a “sudden stop” outcome that nobody with half a brain wants to see occur. While it certainly is possible that we could “avoid” this and wind up with an outcome more akin to Japan, is it worth the risk of a full-on meltdown so the modern-day robber barons can keep their mansion in The Hamptons and not go to prison for their sins?

I think not.

(From K.Denninger)

Comment by tresho
2009-08-19 08:53:49

The obvious solution to the financial dilemma posed by Karl Denninger is to spend months discussing and then trillions of dollars paying for a national health care system. That is exactly the thing this nation needs at this moment.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-19 10:22:45

My two bits-

1-If we’re doing exactly what led to GD1 again, then we should be facing a deflationary decade, no? Is Denninger a deflationist?

2-I think the ‘Japan option’ is the option that is less likely to cause a meltdown. That’s its whole point–the rich stay rich but everything sux for a decade or so. The ‘let it crash by marking to market’ option is pretty obviously the one most likely to cause a ‘crash’. That’s its whole point.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-19 11:08:25

same Eric Janszen link as below arguing against deflation

http://itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=116417#post116417

“The latest gambit: falling velocity of money and a declining money supply. This is supposed to prove the deflation spiral case. Here I argue otherwise.

No deflation spiral, nor will the U.S. experience a Japan style stag-deflation. For that a nation needs to be a net capital exporter.

Net capital exporters have to cope with the tendency of the exchange rate value of the currency to rise due to foreign exchange accumulation. Still, things have not been so bad for the average Japanese. Wages are up and inflation is down, the exact opposite of what has occurred in the U.S. over the past ten years.

The U.S. is a net capital importer and has the opposite problem, mitigated only by the fact that the U.S. dollar is a reserve currency, which produces an artificial global demand for dollars. The dollar devalues as a natural consequence of the process of a reduction in the demand for the dollar that happens during economic recessions when U.S. consumers buy fewer imports and foreign capital inflows fall.

Let’s not forget, the whole argument for why a trade deficit is “good for America” is that foreign capital then flows into the U.S. where it creates new jobs that are better than the making toys and clothes jobs that were exported.

Vendor financing deal is off: No net goods and services imports, no capital exports, no capital export financed jobs

Now that the U.S. is not importing as much, where will the foreign direct investment come from to generate jobs in the U.S. to fuel the recovery?

I recommend to deflationists that they focus their minds on one fact: governments cannot print purchasing power.
iTulip Forecast: The U.S. will experience stagflation as the economy drifts in and out of periods of moderate to high inflation while unemployment remains high. The sources of inflation are: 1) high import costs, with energy costs exerting the greatest upward force on the prices of goods, 2) reduced quantity of goods and services, 3) industrial concentration. The challenge for investors and consumers alike will be managing through inflation volatility, high unemployment, and political uncertainly, a new problem for the U.S. that will weigh on the dollar even more than the Fed’s and Federal Government’s balance sheet. As the U.S. fiscal and external debt position grows increasingly precarious, the U.S. remains vulnerable to a sudden stop event.”

 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-19 06:44:35

In Appraisal Shift, Lenders Gain Power and Critics

NYTimes

Mike Kennedy, a real estate appraiser in Monroe, N.Y., was examining a suburban house a few years ago when he discovered five feet of water in the basement. The mortgage broker arranging the owner’s refinancing asked him to pretend it was not there.

Brokers, real estate agents and banks asked appraisers to do a lot of pretending during the housing boom, pumping up values while ignoring defects. While Mr. Kennedy says he never complied, many appraisers did, some of them thinking they had no choice if they wanted work. A profession that should have been a brake on the spiral in home prices instead became a big contributor.

On May 1, a sweeping change took effect that was meant to reduce the conflicts of interest in home appraisals while safeguarding the independence of the people who do them.

Brokers and real estate agents can no longer order appraisals. Lenders now control the entire process.

The Home Valuation Code of Conduct is setting off a bitter battle. Mortgage brokers, lenders, real estate agents, regulators and appraisers are all arguing over whether an effort to fix one problem has created many new ones.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 17:29:10

While this is better, it still puts appraisers at the mercy of vested interests who will hire only the ones who give them the numbers they want.

 
 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-19 06:51:02

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH (CR, FPSS)
But, it is different in MA. We have a diverse economy, and we are immune!!!!
http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2009/08/foreclosures_ri.html

Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 08:13:36

“Foreclosures in Massachusetts increased almost 9 percent in July from June but dropped 38 percent from the number in July 2008″

“Lenders started 2,822 foreclosure proceedings in Massachusetts in July, more than five times more than the same month last year and about the same as in June”

Huh?? I don’t drink coffee, but now might be a good time to start. How can 5x more YOY = 38% drop YOY? Is one number NODs and the other completed forclosures?

Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-19 08:25:12

I distinctly remember a foreclosure moratorium in place last year, that ended in August, so that might make up for the difference in the actual foreclosures, vs, the proceedings. I think that in MA the proceeding is the step where the mortgage holder files the papers with the court to initiate foreclosure proceedings.
Anyway, it does not bode well for the august bounce that I have been seeing, and we might be getting set up for the next step downwards.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:09:33

Isn’t Ca’s moratorium up soon, PB?

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-19 06:55:31

ACT Independent.org decries BO’s military adventures:

Seven months into the new administration, it is clear that Obama is on his way to failure and worse, potentially dragging a whole range of progressive causes down to defeat. For so many disappointed activists, the honeymoon is over and the thrill is gone, and what remains is a trail of broken promises and betrayals. The question is no longer how to save Obama, but how to defend causes that were here long before Obama arrived, and will be here long after he is gone. In 1979, it was evident to Sen. Ted Kennedy that Jimmy Carter was wrecking the Democratic Party and had to be opposed. Kennedy fell short of the nomination, but his valiant campaign undoubtedly did much to keep the Democratic opposition alive during the long nightmare of Reagan-Bush. Today, a timely primary challenge to Obama by a candidate without Kennedy’s baggage might capture the nomination and avoid the new nightmare of a Mitt Romney presidency. In the short run, we need a revival of the peace movement on the Afghanistan issue.

AFGHAN-PAKISTAN WAR ESCALATES TOWARD A DECADE OF SLAUGHTER

During July, 41 US soldiers, 34 NATO troops, and thousands of civilians died in Afghanistan and Pakistan, meaning that this war is already as bad as Iraq, and deteriorating faster. Obama’s hand-picked commander is Gen. McChrystal, who, in a macabre mockery of Obama’s election promises, was implicated in torture in Iraq. (New York Times, May 31, 2009) Obama is escalating the Afghan war way beyond Bush, but behind the scenes McChrystal is already demanding a doubling of US troop strength. Official Washington knows that Obama has signed off on ten years of war,­ in effect, an endless commitment: “As the Obama administration expands U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, military experts are warning that the United States is taking on security and political commitments that will last at least a decade and a cost that will probably eclipse that of the Iraq war.” (Walter Pincus, Washington Post, August 9, 2009) At this stage in the Iraq war, there were mass demonstrations against Bush, which he ignored. Today, it would be much harder for Obama to ignore similar actions, but the peace movement leaders are AWOL, silent, nowhere to be found. For the rest of us, naked aggression by Obama is still aggression. We must mount mass demonstrations in 2009 against the Afghan war before Iran, Pakistan, and even China or Russia become embroiled. We are sick and tired of foreign wars and we want all US troops brought home from the Iraq and Afghan war zones, immediately. We also want Joe Biden to shut his big mouth and stop making trouble with the Russians in Georgia, Ukraine, and Poland, since the stakes here could include nuclear war.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-08-19 08:08:57

But we need to export Democracy to those people. On second thought is might be a good idea to keep some more democracy here at home instead of exporting it all over world. We certainly seem to have a democracy deficiency right here. Term limits, no more lobbying/buying politicians, the end of the career politician, all those things would be good for democracy.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-19 12:56:12

Term limits, no more lobbying/buying politicians, the end of the career politician, all those things would be good for democracy.

Yep. And a requirement that legislation must be ratified by a citizen referendum before taking effect. That would show who’s boss.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:12:13

Lehi, so vote your jerks out, and I will too.

Bu bu bu but, “mine is good” is the general mantra.
If everyone’s congress/senate critter is so damn good, then nobody’s is wrong. Just like the old time religion. War is good cause “god” is on MY side. Didn’t I hear the other guys say that too?

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Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 09:19:31

I say BS

Official Washington knows that Obama has signed off on ten years of war

1. How can Obama sign off on a war that will certainly last longer than his presidency?
2. If that is indeed possible, it is equally possible that Bush had signed off on a 20 year war back when he was president, so Obama is now stuck with Bush’s order. Which I find hard to believe.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-19 17:40:45

Thank you yensoy.

While I deplore the wars in both Afghanistan and Iraq, I also have to look at the bigger geopolitical picture and the first thing that jumps out is that Pakistan has nukes and a VERY unstable government.

Iraq is about to or already has nukes. So while invasion is out, containment is required.

Then there’s that whole China soon-to-come social upheaval thing as well as the standing doctrine of Russian containment.

Therefore, Iraq and Afghanistan become serious strategic locations where we had none before. Afghanistan also allows us some control and intel over the international heroin trade.

This is not some tin foil hat theory, but current, publicly available doctrine and analysis from both the military and reputable strategic think tanks. But you ‘ll have to dig for it on your own.

Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 22:41:31

I can’t speak for others, but what really pissed me with the Bush administration was not being open and honest about the reason to go to war. I would have been a lot less upset if W came out and said “We need a colony in the middle east, with natural resources, and a pliable leadership who will let us exercise our long term strategic objectives from their territory. We have considered various choices and for reasons I cannot share with you we have decided that Iraq is the lucky winner. My message to the American people is that your high standard of living can continue and the existing word order with America as the leader can prolong only if we take this expensive, bloody and immoral step of overthrowing the existing leadership in Iraq and replacing it with someone of our choosing.”

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 07:33:27

Deere Down…

Deere’s Profit Falls 27%; 2009 Sales Forecast Is Cut.

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — Deere & Co., the world’s largest maker of farm equipment, said third-quarter profit dropped 27 percent and lowered its 2009 sales forecast amid declining demand for lawn and construction machinery.

Net income fell to $420 million, or 99 cents a share, in the three months ended July 31, from $575.2 million, or $1.32, a year ago, Moline, Illinois-based Deere said today in a statement. Revenue fell 24 percent to $5.89 billion.

Deere’s quarterly sales dropped for the second consecutive quarter on a year-over-year basis as the global recession and construction slump reduced demand for machinery, including lawn tractors. Deere forecast fourth-quarter equipment sales will decline 34 percent.

“The fourth quarter is weaker, and it’s uncertain what next year will be like,” Eli Lustgarten, an analyst with Longbow Securities in Independence, Ohio, said today in a telephone interview.

Deere forecast 2009 equipment sales will drop 21 percent, down from an estimate on May 20 of a 19 percent decline. The company kept its forecast of 2009 net income at $1.1 billion, which Lustgarten said indicates the company will only break even in the fourth quarter.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-19 08:05:22

Deere’s quarterly sales dropped for the second consecutive quarter on a year-over-year basis as the global recession and construction slump reduced demand for machinery, including lawn tractors.

Yes, but what about the John Deere kiddie snacks and John Deere beer cozies and John Deere toys and John Deere baby clothes? (All real items, BTW.) Are the Crappery Division’s profits up or down?

 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 08:37:30

Deere’s Profit Falls 27%; 2009 Sales Forecast Is Cut ?

Dang…Maybe we need to increase the ag. subsidies…

 
Comment by Muddyfoot
2009-08-19 10:18:11

Wait, no one’s buying the JD riding lawnmowers to cut that postage stamp plot of turf at the old McCrapshack? Who could’ve seen that coming?

 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-19 07:50:50

those countries will need to leapfrog over about 700 years of social development before they even approach having what the West considers basic human rights

And that won’t happen until they successfully marginalize Islam like Christianity is in the western world.

Good luck.

Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 09:21:53

Really? I remember there is this one country in the middle east that calls itself a democracy and is run on fairly religious lines. And it’s not islamic :-)

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 20:52:31

That is true. However that country allows churchs and mosques. What other country in the middle east allows churchs and synagogues?

Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 22:32:54

Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon, to name 3.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 22:47:02

I stand corrected. :)

 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-19 23:46:07

What other country in the middle east allows churchs and synagogues?

Yemen has a couple churches, an American missionary hospital, a Dutch missionary hospital. The dwindling indigenous Jewish communities worship collectively in homes, although until at least 1948 (Operation Magic Carpet airlift to Israel) there were synagogues. In Aden there are Hindu temples and the Indian Hindu community gathers for religious festivals. The Parsi (Indian Zoroastrian) merchant community in Aden established sacred sites in the 19th century; expelled after the 1967 communist takeover, the Aden Parsis arranged for their sacred flame to be airlifted out of the People’s Democratic Republic of Yemen in 1976. Both quietistic and overt Ismaili Muslims (the group headed by the Agha Khan) remain in Yemen, even though some of their beliefs and practices are heretical to mainstream Islam as understood in Yemen.

Egypt has indigenous churches and historic synagogues, at least one that will still function if ten Jewish men convene.

Jordan, Sudan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Palestinian territory have indigenous churches. Yazidis, followers of a pre-Islamic indigenous religion, live and have shrines in northern Iraq; I assume they convene to worship.

Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordan have Druze communities (departed from mainstream Islam); I assume they convene to worship.

Kuwait, UAE and Oman have churches for expatriate population. Oman and UAE have some Hindu temples and the Hindu population observe religious festivals. (Note that Hinduism is far more problematic to Islam than the monotheistic “religions of the book” of Judaism and Christianity.)

Turkey has numerous churches and synagogues.

Iran has churches and synagogues and at least one Zoroastrian temple. Baha’i shrines exist, although Baha’is are so repressed that I presume their places of worship are secret.

There was still a synagogue in Kabul in 2005, although only two (feuding) members of the community left - then one.

Not to say that there is no religious repression or discrimination.

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 10:27:10

expelled after the 1967 communist takeover

I made a mistake there. The Parsis (Indian Zoroastrians) in Aden were traders and merchants with interests throughout the Indian Ocean; their presence in Aden had been fostered by the British Empire. They weren’t expelled, but their businesses and property were confiscated by the Communists and they returned to India or other Indian Ocean outposts of their trading networks.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-19 07:53:30

The Greenback Effect - NYTimes Op-Ed
By WARREN E. BUFFETT
Published: August 18, 2009

Omaha -

IN nature, every action has consequences, a phenomenon called the butterfly effect. These consequences, moreover, are not necessarily proportional. For example, doubling the carbon dioxide we belch into the atmosphere may far more than double the subsequent problems for society. Realizing this, the world properly worries about greenhouse emissions.

The butterfly effect reaches into the financial world as well. Here, the United States is spewing a potentially damaging substance into our economy — greenback emissions.

To be sure, we’ve been doing this for a reason I resoundingly applaud. Last fall, our financial system stood on the brink of a collapse that threatened a depression. The crisis required our government to display wisdom, courage and decisiveness. Fortunately, the Federal Reserve and key economic officials in both the Bush and Obama administrations responded more than ably to the need.

They made mistakes, of course. How could it have been otherwise when supposedly indestructible pillars of our economic structure were tumbling all around them? A meltdown, though, was avoided, with a gusher of federal money playing an essential role in the rescue.

The United States economy is now out of the emergency room and appears to be on a slow path to recovery. But enormous dosages of monetary medicine continue to be administered and, before long, we will need to deal with their side effects. For now, most of those effects are invisible and could indeed remain latent for a long time. Still, their threat may be as ominous as that posed by the financial crisis itself.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 08:07:00

“Fortunately, the Federal Reserve and key economic officials in both the Bush and Obama administrations responded more than ably to the need.”

-They did? I thought all they did was print money and throw it at the problem. Who couldn’t have done that?

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-19 09:00:34

The United States economy is now out of the emergency room and appears to be on a slow path to recovery. I doubt that. The Mother of All Bailouts has kicked the can down the road, or doctored the books of the insolvent banks, but the economy can wind up back in the emergency room rather quickly.

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-19 09:49:55

“A meltdown, though, was avoided, with a gusher of federal money playing an essential role in the rescue.”

Getting out my dictionary…

avoided - / v.tr. put off to a future time; arrange (an event etc.) to take place at a later time; defer

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-19 11:42:17

Warren Buffett is nothing but a shill for his own bottom line. He’s as scummy as anyone, in bed with Goldman et al.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 12:25:41

I agree with Grizzly Bear.

Just watching out for his own and his stockholders bottom line.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:14:53

yup, as long as “I have mine” who the heck cares about yours.
Buffet is an old geezer who can go anytime now.
Don’t famous ppl go in 3s?

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Comment by cougar91
2009-08-19 07:58:59

…………..

An increase in federal debt can be financed in three ways: borrowing from foreigners, borrowing from our own citizens or, through a roundabout process, printing money. Let’s look at the prospects for each individually — and in combination.

The current account deficit — dollars that we force-feed to the rest of the world and that must then be invested — will be $400 billion or so this year. Assume, in a relatively benign scenario, that all of this is directed by the recipients — China leads the list — to purchases of United States debt. Never mind that this all-Treasuries allocation is no sure thing: some countries may decide that purchasing American stocks, real estate or entire companies makes more sense than soaking up dollar-denominated bonds. Rumblings to that effect have recently increased.

Then take the second element of the scenario — borrowing from our own citizens. Assume that Americans save $500 billion, far above what they’ve saved recently but perhaps consistent with the changing national mood. Finally, assume that these citizens opt to put all their savings into United States Treasuries (partly through intermediaries like banks).

Even with these heroic assumptions, the Treasury will be obliged to find another $900 billion to finance the remainder of the $1.8 trillion of debt it is issuing. Washington’s printing presses will need to work overtime.

Slowing them down will require extraordinary political will. With government expenditures now running 185 percent of receipts, truly major changes in both taxes and outlays will be required. A revived economy can’t come close to bridging that sort of gap.

Legislators will correctly perceive that either raising taxes or cutting expenditures will threaten their re-election. To avoid this fate, they can opt for high rates of inflation, which never require a recorded vote and cannot be attributed to a specific action that any elected official takes. In fact, John Maynard Keynes long ago laid out a road map for political survival amid an economic disaster of just this sort: “By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens…. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.”

Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 08:47:32

Nice post cougar…Inflation or Stagflation ??

Comment by cougar91
2009-08-19 09:13:56

Wish I could take credit for it… see my post below. :-(

But since you asked: it’s deflation in assets owned, followed by inflation in prices and interest rates, accompanied by stagnation of wages and home prices, and realization of lower living standards and opportunities, ending up in revolution of current politico-social dynamics.

Whoa did I just sound like Aladinsane? Ok I am not sure about that LAST one (the revolution).

Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-08-19 10:55:01

Eric Janszen makes a long impassioned argument against deflation.

http://itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=116417#post116417

He’s arguing for stagflation with varying periods of mild to more severe inflation going forwards.

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Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 21:42:17

:)

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-19 09:09:21

Sorry this was suppose to be continuation of Buffet’s article in NYT this morning. Didn’t mean to start another thread.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 10:36:07

“By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens…. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.”

BINGO! There it is in a few lines, yet so many can not wrap their brains around this fact.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 14:00:50

There are a couple of serious problems with this argument.

First, the author seems to assume that an increase in savings domestically actually means “savings” when in fact it actually means the elimination of debt, two very different things.

Secondly, and this counters the problem created by his first error, he obviously doesn’t realize that the Fed has a mechanism to mop up as much excess debt as it wants. They just log a credit on one side of the ledger and a countering debit on the other side. That is the magic of the Fed.

No problem. right? Well, actually there IS a HUGE problem, and that is, THE GOVERMENT IS STILL GOING TO INFUSE THAT CURRENCY INTO THE SYSTEM BY SPENDING LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW!!!

Draw your own conclusions.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 08:07:42

The following was posted late yesterday:

Slim - Clean bores the old fashion way. Rod, patches, solvent, and gun oil. Although recently, I have switched to a modern synthetic solvent/oil combination. Sometimes a brass wire brush is necessary if I’ve been shooting cast bullets that tend to leave behind chunks of lead in your barrel. Does the bore snake work for ya on your rifles/pistols/shotguns? I’m open to new ideas. Oh, and what’s up with the porch light at the Slim Ranch?

Here are my responses:

1. I use the rod, patches, solvent, and gun oil to clean Old Bessie. She really appreciates the attention. The bore snake method seems a bit too hurried to me.

2. The solar porch light is having some serious issues with the super-bright City of Tucson street light. My light’s been calling it quits in the wee hours of the morning. Not good. So, I’ve been affixing duct tape patches to the photo cell, in hopes of blocking some of that street light illumination. Am still trying to come up with the ideal patch that will cause my light to shine until dawn. If this patching thing doesn’t work, I’ll have to move the light to a darker location.

Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 08:51:17

lead in your barrel ??

You still use lead Slim ??

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 11:45:44

My dad uses cast bullets. He loads his own ammo and has since I was a kid. As for me, I use that store-bought ammo. Doesn’t leave as much lead residue in the barrel.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:19:57

Used to help dad load his own ammo.
Big ole work table he built in garage. Really good work table.

Funny thing, now that I think about it, no tools to fix house etc, but ammo tools.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 16:04:23

Were we separated at birth? I used to help my dad load his own ammo on the workbench that he built.

It’s still in the basement and still used for reloading on one end. His lab equipment takes up most of the rest of it.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 21:58:18

As for me, I use that store-bought ammo ??

Steel…Thats good…Lead is poison…To many good critters die from it…

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Comment by dude
2009-08-19 13:54:01

Re: photo cell,

Are you talking about a photo cell that looks like a small cylinder about 1 inch diameter X 2inches long with the detector being a flat printed circuit at one end? If so, there is something I’ve learned that may help.

You will get much more sensistive adjustment to the light striking the photo cell if you think “shroud” instead of “block”. Use black electrical tape or an old 35mm film tube with the end cut off to make a tube that extends from the cylinder. The sensitivity of your adjustment will increase geometrically, and is totally measurable.

FWIW

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 14:22:19

I’m trying to solve the problem by using these instructions. (Warning: PDF ahead.)

http://www.solarilluminations.com/FLseriesTROUBLESHOOTINGguide.pdf

Comment by dude
2009-08-19 15:17:36

Very good, my point above still applies. The problem with the instruction is that it really doesn’t help the situation much if the sensor is directly in the beam of an alternate light source. A shroud that shades the sensor will work better than the disk with a hole approach. Good luck.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:21:48

Isn’t there
something workable if you review
Home Alone?

he he he

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Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-19 08:13:30

“The United States economy is now out of the emergency room and appears to be on a slow path to recovery”

Really? What has changed aside from an enormous hospital bill? If the US got emergency-room care from the government, then they got the words most expensive band-aid ever applied to a wound. “That’ll be $13 trillion for today’s visit. When can we schedule your next thirty appointments to change the bandage?”

Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:24:20

speaking of hospital procedures and bills etc.
POLLY, did you hospital call you a zillion x
before you went in for surgery?

So far I have. Amazing that today part of our
health insurance coverage is for multiples of
people asking you ?s but they can’t communicate
with one another RIGHT THERE.
So, speaking of health insurance, we have a LOT of
ppl that are on staff to staff staff of staffs.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 09:07:02

Good thing Barry’s on vaction, gives him a chance to re-read the script. Bad news, comb over Joe’s out flapping his gum’s, and bound to step in it.

Obama Goes Postal, Lands in Dead-Letter Office.

Aug. 18 (Bloomberg) — “UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It’s the Post Office that’s always having problems.” — Barack Obama, Aug. 11, 2009

No institution has been the butt of more government- inefficiency jokes than the U.S. Postal Service. Maybe the Department of Motor Vehicles.

The only way the post office can stay in business is its government subsidy. The USPS lost $2.4 billion in the quarter ended in June and projects a net loss of $7 billion in fiscal 2009, outstanding debt of more than $10 billion and a cash shortfall of $1 billion. It was moved to intensive care — the Government Accountability Office’s list of “high risk” cases - - last month and told to shape up. (It must be the only entity that hasn’t cashed in on TARP!)

That didn’t stop President Barack Obama from holding up the post office as an example at a town hall meeting in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, last week.

When Obama compared the post office to UPS and FedEx, he was clearly hoping to assuage voter concerns about a public health-care option undercutting and eliminating private insurance.

What he did instead was conjure up visions of long lines and interminable waits. Why do we need or want a health-care system that works like the post office?

What’s more, if the USPS is struggling to compete with private companies, as Obama implied, why introduce a government health-care option that would operate at the same disadvantage?

Obama Unscripted

These are just two of the questions someone listening to the president’s health-insurance reform roadshow might want to ask.

Impromptu Obamanomics is getting scarier by the day. For all the president’s touted intelligence, his un-teleprompted comments reveal a basic misunderstanding of capitalist principles.

Comment by Al
2009-08-19 09:57:47

“the Government Accountability Office’s list of “high risk” cases - - last month and told to shape up. (It must be the only entity that hasn’t cashed in on TARP!)”

I’m sure once the USPS is privatized it will be allowed to collect TARP funds.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-08-19 11:43:57

The DMV office in Loveland is very efficient. No appointments needed. Very simple.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 12:23:51

Umm there are already lines and waits to see a doctor for some people.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 15:24:19

“reveal a basic misunderstanding of capitalist principles”

Maybe he isn’t a capitalist?

I heard that soundbite live, BTW, and I gasped when I heard it. What a maroon! Better than Bush doesn’t say much for a person.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:26:20

Frankly, the bottom line is that the msm, faux noise and so many idiot rep s want this potus to fail. Even if, and especially if it might benefit them in the long run.

Just a bunch of NO ers.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 09:16:58

US Housing Market Could Be Facing Another Bubble: Shiller
August 19, 2009, 11:04 am EDT

The housing market, which already has been battered by the worst collapse since the Great Depression, could be setting itself for another bubble, well-known economist Robert Shiller told CNBC.

With home affordability at a 40-year high, there is “absolutley” a possibility that the housing market will face another bubble in the next five years, said Shiller, an economics professor at Yale, co-founder of MacroMarkets and co-developer of the monthly Case-Shiller home price index.

“The low interest rates, the affordability is leaning that way and the ratios are back down,” Shiller said in a live interview. “I get glimmers of excitement among some people, but we still have a high inventory of unsold homes, and we still have a lot of weariness because of the recent experience.”

Although the most recent Case-Shiller report showed that US home prices posted their first monthly increase in almost three years, the sector-and the economy-are still a long way from recovery, Shiller said. Another round of stimulus money and revival of the credit markets is the only way the economy will shake out of this rough patch, Shiller said.

“It’s clearly not over yet,” he said. “It’s not obvious that people are really ready to spend again. That may take years to rekindle that normalcy.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 11:26:51

“US Housing Market Could Be Facing Another Bubble: Shiller”

Fed could be engineering an echo bubble: Professor Bear

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 19:50:05

The engineering efforts to prop up home prices are quite blatant, and the MSM never appears to question the apparently-obvious wisdom of housing bubble punch bowl respiking operations. I am beginning to feel a bit strange regarding my impression that this is an exercise in futility which will end badly. Perhaps it is high time to get with the program and start frantically searching for a home to buy before that $8K first-time-buyer credit expires?

Fed MBS purchase program seen extending into 2010
Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:18pm EDT

By Julie Haviv - Analysis

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve will likely extend the timeframe of its program to buy $1.25 trillion of agency mortgage backed securities (MBS) to give the market more time adjust to the loss of the central bank’s buying power, analysts said.

Earlier this year the U.S. Federal Reserve set a goal of buying up to $1.25 trillion of agency MBS, $300 billion of Treasuries, and $200 billion of agency debt in 2009 to help lower borrowing costs for home owners.

The Fed purchases of agency MBS total $741.608 billion so far in 2009.

At this month’s Federal Reserve monetary policy meeting, the Fed decided to gradually phase out the much-smaller $300 billion U.S. Treasuries purchase program by October, postponing the end of the plan by a month.

The Fed’s purchases have helped lower mortgage rates, making homes more affordable amid the worst housing slump since the Great Depression.

But without the Fed’s buying the housing market’s recent stabilization might not continue, analysts said.

“We think this gradual transition away from Treasury purchases is likely the method they’ll employ for the other purchase programs,” said Tom Porcelli, U.S. economist at RBC Capital Markets in New York.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 19:58:53

How did propping up the housing market become part of the Fed’s mandate?

U.S. mortgage bond yield premiums rise on Fed angst
Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:22pm EDT
By Al Yoon

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Risk premiums in the $4.5 trillion U.S. mortgage bond market rose to their highest in more than a month on Wednesday amid growing concern about how the Federal Reserve will end its market-dominating purchases.

With the Fed’s plan to purchase $1.25 trillion of the securities by year end about 60 percent complete, investors are speculating the central bank will allow rates to drift higher to entice private investors into a market that has become too dependent on the central bank’s support.

The outcome is all but certain, however, since the Fed must walk a fine line between enticing investors to fill its void and keeping mortgage rates low enough to foster recoveries in housing and the economy. For now, the bet is for higher rates.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-08-19 12:20:45

I could probably grow a third nut before another housing bubble happens.

We’re in the 5th wave of a 5th wave, Maestro. Three DOW Jones companies have BK’d or near BK’d recently. Most corps are on lending life support from Fed. They can’t roll. What’s more, Uncle Sam is stimulating earnings. Above that, normal accounting rules have been abandoned. We in the midst of a deflationary crash. It’s all going to he!!.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 20:01:39

Why is any of this a problem if the Fed is Hell-bent on respiking the punchbowl by whatever means necessary?

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:27:49

I do NOT think it is affordable YET. what in the he ll is he talking about.
Affordable for whom?

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-19 09:46:43

Dollar just did a nosedive, with commodities subsequently up (e.g. oil over $73). Anyone know what’s up? BB say something bad?

Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 10:32:07

drawdowns in crude inventories seen as bullish sign

 
Comment by bink
2009-08-19 10:38:17

Report said oil stockpiles are lower than expected.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 11:36:07

Buffett commentary effect?

Buffett Says Federal Debt Poses Risks to Economy (Update1)
By Shamim Adam

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — The U.S. must address the massive amounts of “monetary medicine” that have been pumped into the financial system and now pose threats to the world’s largest economy and its currency, billionaire Warren Buffett said.

The “gusher of federal money” has rescued the financial system and the U.S. economy is now on a slow path to recovery, Buffett wrote in a New York Times commentary yesterday. While he applauds measures adopted by the Federal Reserve and officials from the Bush and Obama administrations, Buffett says the U.S. is fiscally in “uncharted territory.”

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 12:29:08

Asian futures down. End of day could be interesting, since our market seems to have followed China’s lead this week.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 09:47:42

The conversation after Ahansen’s post yesterday caused me to wax lyrical. I dedicate the poem at the end of the comments to our favorite bear wrestler.

Additionally, I found an interesting news story that explains why dear wifey and I only have girls:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/08/17/why-women-keep-getting-prettier/

From the story, “The fairer among us also tend to conceive more daughters than sons.”

Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 10:12:52

Dude:

You do realize that this is all BS, right? The sex of a child is not dependent on which characteristics will help it survive more after it grows up. Sex is determined merely by whether the sperm has an X chromosome in it or a Y chromosome.

That means it’s the husband’s doing (not the wife’s) when the baby turns out to be a girl.

Comment by dude
2009-08-19 10:53:16

So what was the flaw in the study? Sample size too small? Exogenous factors not accounted for? I haven’t read the scientific paper so I really can’t comment on that.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-19 13:24:28

I don’t know, but I ain’t complainin’.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 15:29:45

Additionally, I found an interesting news story that explains why dear wifey and I only have girls:

Additionally, I found an interesting news story that explains why dear wifey and I only have girls:

Well you said it, she didn’t.

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Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 15:41:23

Chromosomal sex determination is a known fact. Analyzing the attractiveness of your old classmates does nothing to undo that.

Girl = XX
Boy = XY

So you can only get an X from mom, but you could get either an X or a Y from dad. If dad gives you an X, then you’re a girl. If dad gives you a Y, then you’re a boy.

Did you graduate from high school?

Comment by dude
2009-08-19 16:58:58

I hate to tell you this V, but there are other factors besides just the “sex” of the sperm.

To name a couple, XXers are slightly larger than XYers, this feature is used to separate them in a column for use with sex selection processes. They actually can increase the chance of selection to about 60/40.

XYers are a bit faster than XXers because of the above, which in additon to separation by column makes for differences, en vivo.

Unless your major was microbiology I really don’t think you want to argue this point with me. I may be a mechanical engineer but what I’ve done for the last 15 years is produce automation systems to facilitate DNA testing. I’ve learned a thing or two over that time.

BTW, you still haven’t told me what was wrong with the scientific method of the study, and suggesting I’m stupid doesn’t help your case.

I only posted it because it dealt with some of the physiological differences between men and women in light of the discussion yesterday, and because it confirmed my belief that I’m REALLY good looking. ;)

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Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 18:15:21

Dear Dude:

My major was molecular biology. Sperms can be X or Y, not XX or XY. The study is wrong (and pointless) because the people performing it were assuming that the sex of the child would be determined by which traits (the ones from the masculine side or the ones from the feminine side) would end up being more advantageous for survival down the line. The cellular machinery that produces an embryo does not know which characteristics will be advantageous. Natural selection determines that after the fact.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 18:20:13

PS:

This is something you should have learned in high school.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 18:23:33

This is the part that is completely wrong. They are using a known falsehood to explain what appears to be a statistical fluke (or bad math):

In part, the sex of a child is dependent, they argue, on the traits its parents have that are most beneficial to survival. And because being good-looking is a more significant factor in the reproductive success of women than men, it follows that pretty people would have more girls.

The sex of a child is soley dependent on whether the egg is fertilized by an X sperm or a Y sperm. Nothing else.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 19:52:12

I can’t argue with the micro bio degree. You will know more there.

I can’t argue with the micro bio degree. You will know more there. I never said the sperm doesn’t determine sex. I said it’s more than just whether it’s X oy Y. I’m just saying that the statistics indicate something, I’m surprised you would fight this. They are saying better looking people tend to procreate more and that it makes more better looking women than men. I don’t know why this is, but the number they stated would indicate it to be the case.

It was originally published in a peer reviewed journal, no?

Did they not teach the scientific method in your U?

Are you just mad about my poem? I was just pointing out yet another disadvantage men have in the world.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 20:17:50

Dude:

That’s MOLECULAR biology. Cell and molecular biology. The point of the study (and the part you pasted into your post) was that more attractive people are more likely to have girls than boys. It’s entirely plausible that more attractive ppl may have more children, but there is no natural mechanism for them to have more girls specifically.

Lots of crap is published in peer review journals, partly to expose certain institutions for the idiots they are, and partly because of academic politics.

Yes, as a science student, I had to learn the scientific method. Because you are an engineer, you haven’t had as much exposure to it as I have. I graduated summa cum laude with special distinction, and toted my little “A” off from biostats right along with the rest of my “A”s. I can tell you that the first step of the scientific method is to study the literature and learn the state of the art. These ppl clearly didn’t do that, since their hypothesis requires fertilization to be led a priori by a force that reads the genetic content of the sperm and picks the sperm carrying the most favorable genetic outcome. Scientists already know that fertilization is largely blind to genetic content. The first sperm to make it to the egg intact is the one that gets in. I think X sperm are a little more likely to get in than Y sperm, though. Something about their tails. Like a 1% difference.

Inywayz, I took no heed of your poem. White men are the most powerful group of people on the planet.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 21:36:04

So you don’t adhere to the theory that there may be a sex selection effect due to environmental factors in the V canal, for example?

 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-19 21:51:42

that more attractive people are more likely to have girls than boys ??

Does that mean I am ugly ?? :)

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 22:00:28

Sex selection in V canal might be the reason X sperm are more likely to fertilize than Y sperm.

But there’s no way that such a mechanism is causing good-looking people to have more girls than boys.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-08-19 09:47:52

“My Bad! Woman’s House Mistakenly Auctioned by Bank
A Homestead woman’s home was auctioned to the highest bidder

You know times are tough when people are getting kicked out of their house when it’s not even for sale.
That’s what happened to Anna Ramirez after she found all of her stuff out on the front lawn of her Homestead home last week and a strange man demanding she get out of his newly purchased house…

…The man who bought the house told Ramirez he paid $87,000 for it, which shocked Ramirez, who bought the house for $260,000….

…A mistake in the Miami-Dade Clerk’s Office appears to be behind the mishap, which landed Ramirez homeless for more than 24 hours.
The sale was eventually reversed by a Miami-Dade judge, allowing Ramirez to return to her old digs. Ramirez said she wants to sue for the damage to her furniture.
Ramirez has lived in the house for three years and recently refinanced the home with the bank.”

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Womans-House-Mistakenly-Auctioned-by-Bank-53583357.html

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 13:46:15

“…The man who bought the house told Ramirez he paid $87,000 for it, which shocked Ramirez, who bought the house for $260,000….”

The upside: At least she now knows the market value of the home if it is sold by auction.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 13:52:07

LOL.

A painful class to learn a painful lesson.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 19:15:25

Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other.

– Benjamin Franklin –

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-08-19 09:54:02

I keep hearing over and over that C4C is “working.”

I keep hearing over and over that the $8k homebuyers’ credit is “working.”

What on earth do they mean by “working”? If by “working” they mean that giving people FREE money (subsidized by the rest of us) will cause them to go SPEND it, then yeah I guess it is working! Gee, whodathunkit?!

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 10:26:21

“FREE money (subsidized by the rest of us) will cause them to go SPEND it, then yeah I guess it is working”!

Right, and the number one auto maker grabbing the lions share of the “free” C4C dough…. Toyota.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 15:47:57

“subsidized by the rest of us”

If by “the rest of us” you mean foreign treasury bondholders, the top 10% of individual taxpayers and the Federal Reserve then yes, it’s subsidized by the rest of us.

Everybody else is paying such a small percentage of the total it really is inconsequential.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 10:03:26

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — On the chance I might suffer Terri Schiavo’s horrific fate, suspended between life and death as family members battled, I went to a lawyer.

I signed a document that says what treatment, if any, I would want under similar circumstances. It names the person and two backups who would speak for me in case I couldn’t.

Grateful for advice on how to get what I want even when incapacitated, I wish the same for all those who want that peace of mind for themselves and their families.

They could get the help, but for the partisan lies told by demagoguing politicians who swift-boated an innocuous provision in House health-care reform legislation.

Thanks to them, a once bipartisan idea aimed at sparing families their very own Schiavo drama came to be labeled as government-sponsored euthanasia, even Nazism.

It’s only one provision, a mere six pages in the 1,018-page House bill. But the politically motivated whoppers that have all but killed the proposed consultations make the spreaders of these falsehoods unworthy of belief in anything associated with the bill.

Not that we should take the word of any politician in this debate. President Barack Obama’s claims about the plan’s cost and how it would be paid for deserve serious fact-checking.

But for pure demagoguery, Sarah Palin gets the prize for most outrageous. And smelling blood, stalwarts of the Republican Party jumped in. They infected the debate with a fever of fear that spread quickly among the vulnerable, the gullible and those already angry or suspicious.

Various Versions

The lie got told and re-told in various versions by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Republican National Chairman Michael Steele, House Republican leader John Boehner and Senator Charles Grassley, among others.

To be clear, the consultation idea would force not a single patient to go for end-of-life counseling. (Frankly, I wish someone would force some of my procrastinating loved ones to prepare for the worst.)

It merely says that if a Medicare recipient WANTS such a consultation with a health provider once every five years, Medicare will pay for it. Those gravely ill could go more often.

Comment by Jon
2009-08-19 10:44:26

That doesn’t make sense! Why would these noted national Republican leaders lie? Maybe they’re just stupid.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 15:54:12

I agree measton, Palin practiced deceptive demagoguery.

The real problem with this plan is, IT WILL COST TOO MUCH MONEY!

The supporters of the plan seem to think that there is no end to the amount that can be spent to save a life, as long as that life has been deemed worthy of salvation.

Wealth can’t be created by mandate, and flipping the “on” switch on the currency pump will only lead to tears in the end.

Everybody gets sick, some die; even boomers.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 10:56:00

Obama plan creates ‘Public Option’ malpractice law firm

By: Scott Ott Examiner Columnist August 18, 2009
News fairly unbalanced. We report. You decipher.

With multimillion-dollar jury awards in medical malpractice suits driving up the cost of liability insurance for physicians — and thus the cost of health care to consumers — President Barack Obama today backed a health care malpractice reform plan that would create a “public option” law firm to sue doctors for “reasonable” damages.

“We need to keep these ambulance-chasers honest,” Obama said. “These sharks are becoming obscenely wealthy by tugging the heartstrings of compassionate jurors, who then grant ridiculous damage awards for pain and suffering, which makes malpractice insurance rates skyrocket and jacks the price of health care for everyone.”

The president said, “No one knows better than the U.S. Congress how desperately we need a public option malpractice firm to boost choice and competition. Most members are either lawyers like me, or got elected by befriending lawyers who became major campaign contributors. I’m sure they’ll be receptive to my plan because they have that rare combination of being public servants who are committed to equal justice under law.”

The public option medical malpractice firm will sue a doctors for actual damages and expenses, and a 10 percent fee to cover the cost of preparing the case.

“By having one group of lawyers in the land who act with unquestioned integrity,” said the president, “we’ll force the private-sector bloodsuckers to drastically reduce their fees.”

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calf., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., released a joint statement hailing the president’s proposal, and noting that “every private enterprise in America would benefit from a public option alternative, and we’re confident attorneys will embrace the personal sacrifice.”

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 11:36:12

And so the imbalance of power shifts even more from the judicial to the executive branch of government. Nice.

Tort Reform is a very necessary thing, but introducing a federal prosecutor public option is not the solution.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-19 12:26:54

Seems to me this will only reduce the cost of the lawyers fees, but not the cost of malpractice insurance or the awards.

To throw out a ballpark figure, the OB who delivered my DD said she paid $250,000/year in malpractice insurance even with no claims against her.

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 15:58:33

‘The president said, “No one knows better than the U.S. Congress how desperately we need a public option malpractice firm to boost choice and competition. Most members are either lawyers like me, or got elected by befriending lawyers who became major campaign contributors. I’m sure they’ll be receptive to my plan because they have that rare combination of being public servants who are committed to equal justice under law.”’

This particular paragraph made me nauseous. Maybe I’m pregnant? I hope it’s a girl.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 10:58:46

Wells Fargo sued over home equity lines of credit
Customer files lawsuit against Wells Fargo over reductions in home equity lines of credit. Wednesday August 19, 2009,

NEW YORK (AP) — The banking unit of Wells Fargo & Co. is facing a lawsuit claiming it illegally reduced the size of customers’ home equity lines of credit.

The suit, which was filed in Illinois, claims Wells Fargo failed to accurately assess the value of customers’ houses before deciding to cut the size of their credit lines. San Francisco-based Wells Fargo is being accused of using unreliable computer models that wrongly valued home prices too low to justify cutting the size of customers’ loans.

Home equity lines of credit are similar to credit cards in that a customer has a credit limit and can continue to borrow money until the limit is reached. Once a portion is paid off, it again becomes accessible to borrow. But, home equity lines of credit are backed by a borrower’s property, whereas credit cares are unsecured.

Michael Hickman, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of himself and is seeking class action status for it, claims Wells Fargo also did not provide proper notice that the bank was reducing the size of the credit lines.

The bank’s notice for reducing the lines also did not specifically provide a new estimated value for the property or the method used to determine the houses value. Hickman’s lawsuit said that information was needed so a customer could challenge the change in the credit limit and try and reinstate the previous limit.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-08-19 11:11:34

CON-doh! conversion hell here in Jax, FL. Several conversions sold during the boom were later found with building defects. Special assessments as high as $500-600 a month on top of bubblicious prices/mortgages. Now, they are only cash sales — no bank will finance — 40 - 60K!

I’m glad I sat this bubble out. I actually looked at these places during the peak. Oh, the humanity!

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-08-19 11:21:46

What’s worse, you can now buy a SFH in this area (fenced yard and everything) for less than what these bag-holders paid back in 2005-2006 for a converted apartment.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 12:01:51

General Motors Cancels Buick SUV One Week After Announcing It.

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — General Motors Co. said it canceled plans for a new Buick sport-utility vehicle announced Aug. 6 after potential customers said the model lacked the “premium characteristics” they expect from the brand.

The decision was made Aug. 14, after GM earlier in the week showed the SUV and other future vehicles to consumers, dealers, employees, analysts and news reporters, Vice Chairman Tom Stephens said on a company blog. The plans for the SUV called for a plug-in hybrid version, which also was canceled, he wrote.

The speed of the cancellation shows that GM since emerging from bankruptcy last month “is listening and moving quickly,” Stephens wrote. Chief Executive Officer Fritz Henderson has said he wants to transform the Detroit-based company to be more responsive to customers and make decisions quickly.

“It’s obviously a sign of a faster GM and a GM more open to outside feedback,” said Jim Hall, principal of auto consulting firm 2953 Analytics in Birmingham, Michigan. “It also suggests there were already concerns inside the company about the product.”

The plug-in hybrid technology that was to be used for the Buick SUV will be applied to another vehicle, with no delay, that GM will discuss soon, Stephens wrote.

At the new-product event, the planned SUV “received consistent feedback from large parts of all the audiences that it didn’t fit the premium characteristics that customers have come to expect from Buick,” he wrote.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 12:13:46

The speed of the cancellation shows that GM since emerging from bankruptcy last month “is listening and moving quickly taking stabs in the dark”

Fixed that for them.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 12:09:54

Clunk!
Word is the talented gubmint folks running the clunk program, will be promoted with cash bonuses, to head the sure to be successful sickness care system. Who’s acronym has yet to be determined. They would like to transfer all of their C4C stationary and offical looking documents if possible. Cash4Cripples was immediately shot down by the team Barry brain trust however.

NY dealers pull out of clunkers program.
Aug 19

NEW YORK (AP) - Hundreds of auto dealers in the New York area have withdrawn from the government’s Cash for Clunkers program, citing delays in getting reimbursed by the government, a dealership group said Wednesday.

The Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association, which represents dealerships in the New York metro area, said about half its 425 members have left the program because they cannot afford to offer more rebates. They’re also worried about getting repaid.

“(The government) needs to move the system forward and they need to start paying these dealers,” said Mark Schienberg, the group’s president. “This is a cash-dependent business.”

The program offers up to $4,500 to shoppers who trade in vehicles getting 18 mpg or less for a more fuel-efficient car or truck. Dealers pay the rebates out of pocket, then must wait to be reimbursed by the government. But administrative snags and heavy paperwork have created a backlog of unpaid claims.

Schienberg said the group’s dealers have been repaid for only about 2 percent of the clunkers deals they’ve made so far.

Many dealers have said they are worried they won’t get repaid at all, while others have waited so long to get reimbursed they don’t have the cash to fund any more rebates, Schienberg said.

“The program is a great program in the sense that it’s creating a lot of floor traffic that a lot of dealers haven’t seen in a long time,” he said.

“But it’s in the hands of this enormous bureaucracy and regulatory agency,” he added. “If they don’t get out of their own way, this program is going to be a huge failure.”

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 13:31:33

“But it’s in the hands of this enormous bureaucracy and regulatory agency,” he added. “If they don’t get out of their own way, this program is going to be a huge failure.”

LOL! They can’t get out of their own way. Isn’t it obvious, the only way to fix this problem is to add mo gubmint workers. Of course it will turn out to be a huge failure, and touted as a success!

 
 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-08-19 12:19:48

Question guys….

I know people buying houses they couldnt afford doesnt get much love here…

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/real_estate/0908/gallery.Life_after_foreclosure/index.html

My questions is, I sort of feel sorry for these people. They were really stupid. Looking back, it makes me wonder how anyone could have fallen for the adjustable rate mortgage. It seems so stupid that they couldnt see they could not pay for these houses at the natural rate. Almost everyone of them had adjustable rate mortgages. It seems to me, before you get approved for an adjustable rate mortgage, you should be approved first at the rate it could go to….I honestly think this whole debacle could have been prevented if banks had done a litmus test on those it lent to. If the banks didnt lend the money, this would have never happened. People were so selfish and only saw the initial low payments, it all seems so childish and greedy. These people had a hard falling back down to earth….

Is that just me?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 12:56:22

No it isn’t just you. Here’s another guy who’s down on ARMs, but had one. And the good news is that he could have afforded his place even if the ARM adjusted upward.

Comment by yensoy
2009-08-19 18:08:58

You his fan too?

 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-19 13:43:13

“I honestly think this whole debacle could have been prevented if banks had done a litmus test on those it lent to. If the banks didnt lend the money, this would have never happened.”

Yeah, of course. But then they would have missed out on billions of dollars worth of profits & bonuses by not reselling these mortgages in the bond markets. Wouldn’t you take a couple of hundred million even if it meant sending the future economy in the toilet for everyone else?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 13:43:33

“…it makes me wonder how anyone could have fallen for the adjustable rate mortgage.”

I will give you two reasons:

1) Countrywide (see discussion of marketing of ARMs in the book “The Foreclosure of America”)

2) Greenspan advocated the use of ARMs to unlock the magic of housing market wealth effects (the Fed chairman has one of the most powerful bully pulpits in America)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 13:44:46

In fairness, it was not just Countrywide; other lenders marketed them just as aggressively, if not more so. High risk mortgages produced high octane fees for those who sold them.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-19 13:51:05

2) Greenspan advocated the use of ARMs to unlock the magic of housing market wealth effects (the Fed chairman has one of the most powerful bully pulpits in America)

+ a billion

The fact that the top economic person in America was promoting ARMs as an affordability measure, during a period of historically-low interest rates (counter to the entire purpose of ARMs), is incredibly, incredibly ludicrous.

I would have a very hard time being convinced that such an action was not intentional, with the express purpose of creating a housing bubble.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 16:15:46

I will add that the lack of basic math skill inherent to ARM problem has not abated. If anything it has gotten worse.

Look at the healthcare debate if you don’t believe me.

BTW, thanks for your service stpn2me.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 12:21:14

This idea that Cash-for-Clunkers or Dough-for-Dumps will somehow build sales momentum is pure rubbish. What these programs will quite obviously succeed in doing is shifting tomorrow’s demand for cars and houses into the current period.

Who will be left to buy consumer durables tomorrow? (And did the financial engineers who designed these programs consider that issue?)

MarketWatch First Take

Aug 19, 2009, 1:14 p.m. EST
‘Cash for Clunkers’ runs its course
Commentary: Can the automakers sustain whipped-up sales momentum?

Will ‘Cash for Clunkers’ backfire on automakers?

By MarketWatch

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Everyone knew this day was coming.

“Cash for clunkers,” the federal rebate program designed to juice car sales while ridding the roads of dirty old gas guzzlers, is slowing down.

According to auto analysts at Edmunds.com, the number of folks visiting dealer showrooms with “purchase intent” is down 31% from late July, when there was a frenzied rush to grab up to $4,500 worth of government rebates for clunkers traded in for thriftier new vehicles. People know a deal when they see one.

The plan was arguably the most targeted, timely and successful of the government’s many efforts to revive a struggling U.S. economy.

In fact, it was so popular it burned through its initial $1 billion funding in less than two weeks, prompting Congress to pony up another $2 billion at the impassioned behest of an industry suddenly unable to crank out cars conforming to gas-mileage eligibility criteria fast enough to meet demand.

And that could have unintended consequences.

Comment by dude
2009-08-19 16:19:29

If I was a swearing man I would swear that this blog is just about exactly 1 month ahead of the rest of the world?

Why do MSM reporters even attempt to write stories by the old methods? They should just come daily to HBB, cut and paste, sit back on it for a couple weeks and then STILL get the scoop on the rest of the MSM maroons.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-19 18:28:12

“If I was a swearing man I would swear that this blog is just about exactly 1 month ahead of the rest of the world?”

Yes… But we used to be at least a year ahead. The distance visible in our headlights is shrinking. I think I said that here about a year or so ago…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 19:14:03

dude,

I always take the impression that the MSM writers are trying to be deliberately dense — exercising a sort of will to stupidity as it were.

My mom claims that when I started school, I thought the other kids in my Kindergarten class were mentally retarded. So it goes with MSM reporters…

BwaHaHaHahAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAAA!!!

Comment by dude
2009-08-19 19:59:28

LOL. I know the feeling, but V wouldn’t agree.

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Comment by Big V
2009-08-19 20:21:45

Oh no, I totally agree. All the other kids in my class were retards. (tee hee)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 21:28:05

Now I feel ashamed to have shared that story. Glad it at least elicited a laugh, though…

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-08-20 04:02:21

They actually thought i was too smart for 1st grade so after a few weeks they skipped me into 2nd grade….it did feel better…

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-19 12:37:38

The Specter of Debt Revolt Is Haunting Europe
Why Iceland and Latvia Won’t (and Can’t) Pay for the Kleptocrats’ Ripoffs
By MICHAEL HUDSON

In the wake of the world crash populations are asking not only whether debts should be paid, but whether they can be paid! If they can’t be, then trying to pay will only shrink economics further, preventing them from becoming viable. This is what has led past structural adjustment programs to fail.

For the past decade Iceland has been a kind of controlled experiment, an extreme test case of neoliberal free-market ideology. What has been tested has been whether there is a limit to how far a population can be pushed into debt-dependency. Is there a limit, a point at which government will draw a line against by taking on public responsibility for private debts beyond any reasonable capacity to pay without drastically slashing public spending on education, health care and other basic services?

The problem for the post-Soviet economies such as Latvia is that independence in 1991 did not bring the hoped-for Western living standards. Like Iceland, these countries remain dependent on imports for their consumer goods and capital equipment. Their trade deficits have been financed by the global property bubble – borrowing in foreign currency against property that was free of debt at the time of independence. Now these assets are fully “loaned up,” the bubble has burst and payback time has arrived. No more credit is flowing to the Baltics from Swedish banks, to Hungary from Austrian banks, or to Iceland from Britain and the Netherlands. Unemployment is rising and governments are slashing healthcare and education budgets. The resulting economic shrinkage is leaving large swaths of real estate with negative equity…

(link to article): http://tinyurl.com/kkslvb

…No doubt the post-Soviet countries are watching, along with Latin American, African and other sovereign debtors whose growth has been stunted by the predatory austerity programs that IMF, World Bank and EU neoliberals imposed in recent decades. The post-Bretton Woods era is over. We should all celebrate.

Michael Hudson is Distinguished Prof. of Economics at UMKC. In 2006 he was Prof. of Economics and Director of Economic Research at the Riga Graduate School of Law in Latvia. His website is michael-hudson.com.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-19 13:13:30

Uh-oh! The payment-makers are going on strike.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 12:42:51

“A little rebellion now and then is a good thing and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”

~Thomas Jefferson

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 13:07:02

Bond Report

Aug 19, 2009, 3:53 p.m. EST
Treasurys maintain gains after Fed buyback
Fed schedules fewer purchases in coming weeks

By Deborah Levine, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Treasury prices traded higher Wednesday, staging a rally that pushed 10-year yields to levels last seen more than a month ago, as the bond market digested the Federal Reserve Bank of New York’s purchase of $2.599 billion in government debt.

Yields on the 10-year note fell 6 basis points to 3.45%, after earlier touching the lowest on a closing basis since mid-July.

Two-year note yields also fell, off 4 basis points to 0.99%, falling below 1% for the first time since July 22.

Bond prices move inversely to their yields.

For the Fed’s buyback, bond dealers submitted $13.087 billion in debt maturing between 2020 and 2026. See details on Fed’s Web site.

When the Fed last bought debt in that range, it purchased about $3 billion.

Fed policy makers said last week they will slow purchases to finish the buybacks in October, a month later than previously anticipated.

“It looks like the scaling-down of operations has begun,” said George Goncalves, chief fixed-income rates strategist at Cantor Fitzgerald, one of the 18 primary government security dealers that trades with the Fed.

According to Morgan Stanley, the U.S. central bank has bought more than $262 billion of the $300 billion in U.S. debt it promised in March to purchase in an effort to keep borrowing costs, particularly for companies and homebuyers, affordable.

Never mind that super-duper low interest rates have the side effect of keeping home prices (and the principle balance of the loan an average buyer needs to purchase one) unaffordable.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 13:27:51

We’re dang lucky the Chinese and Japanese are such suckers. The Marketwatch report seems to ignore the fact that last week was a record in sales to foreign countries.

Aside from that, we’re golden.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 13:41:05

What do you make of the 20 pct correction in Chinese share prices? Is that connected to currency values, or not?

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 13:55:15

No clue. The SSEC is so government-manipulated (at one time it was stated that 90% of the shares are bought and sold by the government; not sure if that’s true) that it’s hard to say what the cause is.

When you look at the SSEC chart - it looks very manipulated to me. It has a certain… lack of randomness… to it.

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Comment by packman
2009-08-19 13:58:40

To be honest that’s a bit of a copout. See Jon’s response below, which I think is good.

If the Chinese government is indeed manipulating stock prices by buying shares, then it makes sense that they may pull money out of the market for the purpose of buying U.S. treasuries - for the purpose of keeping the US$ up - for the purpose of getting us to buy their stuff.

 
 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-19 13:50:28

What choice do they have? They’re wedded to a system of artificially undervaluing their currencies in order to sell us crap. There’s nowhere else for their money to go. We own them. Of course somewhere down the road, we’re going to wish we could remember how to make stuff for ourselves.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 16:08:27

…we’re going to wish we could have to remember how to make stuff for ourselves.

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Comment by dude
2009-08-19 16:28:35

To manufacture is human, to engineer, divine.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 19:09:07

I agree, dude. Too bad so many slots in our best engineering schools are going to our foreign competitors’ children, who take our know-how back home to compete against us in the global marketplace…

 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 20:02:12

I was thinking in the micro on that comment, not the macro. Besides we’re the free-est, rich-est, happy-est…

…on second thought, nevermind.

 
 
 
 
Comment by dude
2009-08-19 16:25:39

This news gives me mild hope that I am correct strategically in my decision to finance 1/2 of my purchase price. If the Fed really does stop purchasing bond to hold rates down there could be some actual returns on my reserved cash.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-19 13:54:34

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local-beat/Womans-House-Mistakenly-Auctioned-by-Bank-53583357.html?yhp=1

Whoops, someones house got auctioned right out from under them.

Well, there ya go,there is no oversight and no responsibility to do the right thing, BUT the gov has given the banks millions of dollars and they in turn gave themselves huge bonuses.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 15:12:43

The boomers will be bitchin to the man about their “health” care “rights” while stoned on their azz LOL!

Baby boomers still getting high.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Middle aged baby boomers are still turning on to illegal drugs forty years after Woodstock, doubling the rates of illicit drug use by the previous generation, according to a government study released on Wednesday.

The rates of people aged 50 to 59 who admit to using illicit drugs in the past year nearly doubled from 5.1 percent in 2002 to 9.4 percent in 2007 while rates among all other age groups are the same or decreasing, the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration reported.

“These findings show that many in the Woodstock generation continue to use illicit drugs as they age,” said SAMHSA Acting Administrator Eric Broderick. “This continued use poses medical risks to these individuals and is likely to put further strains on the nation’s healthcare system — highlighting the value of preventing drug use from ever starting.”

Baby boomers are the post World War II generation born between 1946 and 1964. The data used in the study came from various surveys including 16,656 men and women participating in the 2002 through 2007 National Surveys on Drug Use and Health. Click here to read the full report.

The study surveyed use of marijuana, cocaine, heroin, hallucinogens, inhalants and prescription drugs used non-medically.

At the other end of the age spectrum, the rate for those aged 18-25 who admitted to using illicit drugs was relatively unchanged at 19.7 percent, from 19.8 percent the previous year and 20.2 percent in 2002.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-19 15:24:49

Bad news for you pot heads, Barry ain’t gonna legalize it. You’ll have to continue to be in violation of the LAW! Now us boozers on the other hand have nuttin to worry about. Peace Out…

President Barack Obama, who described youthful marijuana and cocaine use in his autobiography, appointed “drug czar” Gil Kerlikowske in May. Kerlikowske plans to spend more money on treating addiction and scale down the “war on drugs” rhetoric.

But don’t expect the White House to consider legalizing marijuana. “The discussion about legalization is not a part of the president’s vocabulary under any circumstances and it’s not a part of mine,” Kerlikowske said in a telephone interview with Reuters in June.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-08-19 19:02:08

I haven`t been a pot head in over 21 years but I still enjoy hearing …

Brad: “You need money.” Spicoli: “All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz and I’m fine.”

 
 
 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-08-19 17:55:47

HUGE news after hours!

“The U.S. government’s budget office will announce next week the federal deficit for fiscal 2009 will total $1.58 trillion, about $262 billion lower than a forecast in May, an administration official said on Wednesday.”

news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090819/pl_nm/us_economy_usa_deficit_2

I bet this will be good for at least a 300pt rally tomorrow. Clearly the rate of increase of the deficit is decreasing.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 19:56:13

Interesting. Futures are flat though.

This is probably due to two things:

- slower-than-expected stimulus spending (only $77B as of two weeks ago)

- stock market bounce will result in higher-than-expected cap gains

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-08-19 19:46:20

RICHMOND, Va. – Something unusual is cropping up alongside the tomatoes, eggplant and okra in Scott Byars’ vegetable garden — the elephantine leaves of 30 tobacco plants.

Driven largely by ever-rising tobacco prices, he’s among a growing number of smokers who have turned to their green thumbs to cultivate tobacco plants to blend their own cigarettes, cigars and chew. Byars normally pays $5 for a five-pack of cigars and $3 for a tin of snuff; the seed cost him $9.

“I want to get to where I don’t have to go to the store and buy tobacco, but I’ll just be able to supply my own from one year to the next,” Byars said.

In urban lots and on rural acres, smokers and smokeless tobacco users are planting Virginia Gold, Goose Creek Red, Yellow Twist Bud and dozens of other tobacco varieties.

Although most people still buy from big tobacco, the movement took off in April when the tax on cigarettes went up 62 cents to $1.01 a pack. Large tax increases were also imposed on other tobacco products, and tobacco companies upped prices even more to compensate for lost sales.

Some seed suppliers have reported a tenfold increase in sales as some of the country’s 43.3 million smokers look for a cheaper way to get their nicotine fix in a down economy. Cigarettes cost an average of $4.35 a pack, home growers can make that amount for about 30 cents.

It’s the latest do-it-yourself movement as others repair their own cars, swap used clothes and cancel yard work services to save money.

Don’t smoke but I’ve become quite the mechanic, bought a sewing machine and fix most of the stuff around my house n

Comment by dude
2009-08-19 20:04:52

That’s unamerican! They should step up and pay those sin taxes like good patriots. Freedom isn’t free, you know!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 20:08:13

German July Producer Prices Drop Most in 60 Years (Update1)
By Gabi Thesing and Christian Vits

Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) — German producer prices fell at the fastest pace in 60 years last month as energy costs declined.

Prices dropped 7.8 percent from a year earlier after falling 4.6 percent in June, the Federal Statistics Office in Wiesbaden said today. That’s the biggest decline since the office started to calculate the series in 1949 and exceeded economists’ forecast for a 6.5 percent drop, according to the median of 21 estimates in a Bloomberg News survey.

The price of crude oil has dropped more than 50 percent from a record in July 2008, while weaker demand is also weighing on inflation. The European Central Bank, which has cut its benchmark interest rate to a record low of 1 percent, has downplayed the threat of deflation in the euro-region economy.

“Producers’ pricing power is declining and one could see the data as a first sign of deflation,” said Carsten Brzeski, an economist at ING Groep NV in Brussels. “However, deflation is only dangerous if it lasts and I expect producer prices to return to positive territory by year-end.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 20:10:13

UPI dot com
Business News
Canada experiences 2nd month of deflation
Published: Aug. 19, 2009 at 8:01 AM

OTTAWA, Aug. 19 (UPI) — Consumer prices in Canada fell 0.9 percent in July on an annual basis, the second consecutive monthly decline, Statistics Canada reported Wednesday.

“The decrease was due primarily to a 12-month decline of 23.4 percent in prices for energy products, particularly gasoline,” the agency said.

On the heels of a 0.3 percent overall decrease in June, prices fell in three of the eight major sectors: transportation, which includes gasoline, shelter and clothing/footwear, the report said. Transportation costs fell 1.6 percent, shelter prices decreased 2 percent and clothing and footwear prices were down 2.1 percent.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 20:13:34

San Francisco Chronicle

If CPI is negative, assessed values could fall
Kathleen Pender
Wednesday, August 19, 2009

Don’t count your chickens just yet, but if inflation remains low or negative between now and October, people in California who have never received a property tax reduction could get a small one next fiscal year, even if their homes are worth far more than their assessed value.

Under Proposition 13, property is generally reassessed only when there is a change of ownership. After that, its assessed value is adjusted annually by an inflation factor not to exceed 2 percent. New construction also adds to a property’s assessed value. Property taxes are generally 1 percent of assessed value, excluding local taxes.

A separate measure, Proposition 8, allows for a temporary reduction in assessed value when the market value of a property falls below its assessed value of the previous year. Prop. 8 has reduced assessments on many homes purchased within the past few years, but not on homes purchased many years ago that are still worth more than their owners paid, plus the inflation factor.

The inflation factor is the percentage change in the California Consumer Price Index for the 12 months ending the previous October.

From October 2007 through October 2008, the California CPI was up 3.5 percent. So property tax assessments for fiscal 2009-10 - which will be mailed out this fall - will go up by the maximum 2 percent, unless there is a Prop. 8 reduction. (People in some counties received a notice about their 2009-10 taxes this summer.)

Since Prop. 13 passed in 1978, this inflation factor has been less than 2 percent five times, but never negative.

However, between October 2008 and June 2009 (the most recent month for which data are available), the California CPI fell 0.7 percent. You can track this number at links.sfgate.com/ZHYE.

If this number stays negative through October, assessed values could go down by that percentage when tax bills for next fiscal year are sent out in fall 2010 - even on homes worth more than their assessed values.

Comment by packman
2009-08-19 20:20:54

That’s OK - California municipalities have that extra padding in their budgets - right?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-19 22:40:52

Some did until the CA government took it away.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 20:16:16

News from Reuters
CA-BUSINESS Summary
19/08/09

Central bankers to mull crisis lessons at retreat

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two years after the start of the worst global financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s, policy-makers from around the world gather this week to think about how to prevent it from happening again. The Kansas City Federal Reserve’s yearly conference at a mountain retreat in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, will draw central bankers and top economists together at a time when the crisis appears to be easing, with the global economy on the mend.

Comment by measton
2009-08-19 21:02:12

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two years after the start of the worst global financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s, policy-makers from around the world gather this week to think about how to xxxxxx Make people forget about the theft and trust the stock market again. The Kansas City Federal Reserve’s yearly conference at a mountain retreat in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, will draw central bankers and top economists together at a time when the crisis appears to be easing, with the global economy on the mend.

IF there is a god, a giant volcano will form in Jackson Hole this year.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 21:18:05

“IF there is a god, a giant volcano will form in Jackson Hole this year.”

It’s there already, right on the doorstep. God might have to get involved to get the timing right :-)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-19 21:29:14

It’s there. Hopefully my post (w/ linked evidence) will make its way through the filter!

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 00:27:32

Here’s a great put down by Barney Frank. I guess the woman(reportedly a Lyndon LaRouche supporter) forgot Barney Frank is Jewish.

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=nYlZiWK2Iy8&feature=player_embedded

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 05:43:41

Now that major hostilities in the US financial crisis have ended, will a Chinese bear market fill the void?

P.S. Aren’t bubbles and bears fundamentally opposite? How can a market become bearish and also bubble at the same time?

Shanghai market becoming bearish
Asset bubble feared growing in China
By Jack Healy and Bettina Wassener
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
2:00 a.m. August 20, 2009

NEW YORK — As the United States lurches toward recovery, many investors are looking to China to help lift the global economy and stoke financial markets.

But fears that China’s muscular expansion could weaken turned the country’s main stock index into a bear market yesterday, clouding some of those hopes.

The Shanghai composite index closed down 4.3 percent, capping a string of sell-offs that has pushed the market down by 20 percent in just two weeks.

Investors have grown increasingly worried that an asset bubble could be forming in China, fueled by a $586 billion economic stimulus package and an even more aggressive, state-directed lending program that has led banks to filter hundreds of billions of yuan into infrastructure projects.

The mass of easy cash has helped China’s giant economy expand at a 7.1 percent clip this year and propelled a 90 percent rise in the Shanghai market. Now, economists worry that the government’s quick fix has been tilted too heavily toward investment, rather than consumption, setting the stage for unbalanced growth, a surge in bad loans and mounting government debt.

If you are worried about the pace of recovery, you are looking to see where growth is going to be,” said Quincy Krosby, a market strategist at Prudential Financial. “To have a pullback is normal. The question you have to worry about is, ‘Is the Shanghai market a harbinger?’ 

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 05:49:44

Are higher jobless claims good or bad for the stock market?

- “Bear” case: Economic conditions are “worse than expected,” calling green shoots theory further into doubt.

- “Bull” case: Additional stimulus may soon be on the way to pour liquidity on withering green shoots .

market pulse

Aug 20, 2009, 8:30 a.m. EST
U.S. jobless claims rise by 15,000 in latest week
By Robert Schroeder

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Initial claims for state unemployment benefits rose by 15,000 to 576,000 in the week ending Aug. 15, the Labor Department reported Thursday. It was the highest level since July 25. The four-week average of initial claims also rose, by 4,250 to 570,000, and continuing claims climbed as well. For the week ending Aug. 8, continuing claims rose by 2,000 to 6.24 million. It was also the highest since July 25.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 05:53:06

The past several days, the Marketwatch headlines have predicted the stock market would tank, but it came out just fine by the end of the day. I have to wonder with one of the largest bank failures in US history having just occurred (when was it — last FDIC Friday?), whether the Plunge Protection Team is being extra vigilante this week to make sure the US stock market does not follow China’s down the tube?

Jobs data flattening stocks

Stock futures turn steady after early gains. Hopes for a Chinese-related recovery contrasts with Sears disappointment and slight rise in weekly jobless claims.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 05:56:30

A key US retailers post “worse than expected” results:

Aug 20, 2009, 7:50 a.m. EST
Sears Holdings swings to loss as sales slump

By Andria Cheng, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Sears Holdings Corp. on Thursday reported a surprise loss for the second quarter, hurt by store-closing and pension costs and lower demand for home appliance and apparel.

The Hoffman Estates, Ill.-based retailer (SHLD 73.76, -0.65, -0.87%) swung to a loss of $94 million, or 79 cents a share, compared to a profit of $65 million, or 50 cents a share, a year earlier.

Revenue in the quarter ended Aug. 1 fell 10% to $10.6 billion from $11.8 billion. Foreign currency translation impact hurt sales by $126 million alone, Sears said.

Excluding one-time items, the firm, majority owned by Chairman Edward Lampert’s ESL Investments, said it would have lost 17 cents a share. Analysts, on average, estimated Sears would earn 42 cents a share, according to FactSet.

Sears shares fell 4.3% in pre-market trading.

The operator of about 3,900 Sears and Kmart stores said U.S. comparable-store sales slumped 8.6%, including a 13% decline at Sears and a 3.9% decrease at Kmart.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:01:19

Time for these analysts to buy some new clocks, as the ones they are watching have stopped ticking.

Asia Markets

Aug 20, 2009, 3:32 a.m. EST
Analysts stay bullish as Shanghai flirts with bear territory

By V. Phani Kumar, MarketWatch

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — As Chinese stocks near technical bear-market territory, several analysts are maintaining their bullish predictions, saying market dips likely in the near term may present a strong opening for patient investors.

Chinese stocks have undergone a sharp correction this month, as investors sold off shares on concerns that Chinese regulators disapproved of recent rises in bank lending and property prices and could fine-tune policies to avert asset bubbles, hurting equities in the process.

In fact, UBS Research’s China strategist John Tang wrote in a report that a further correction was likely over the next 30 days.

“We argue that the market needs to factor in more short-term regulatory risks, and the coming [corporate] interim reports might have a bigger impact on the index than previously anticipated,” Tang wrote.

He added, however, that the correction may present “a better entry point likely for the bull market into 2010.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:13:19

Of course, this is a biased snap shot, but this video shows the central business district of a large Chinese city populated with newly-built, largely empty, debt-funded commercial real estate — a conclave of empty skyscrapers.

If they build it, will “they” come?

 
 
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