August 20, 2009

Bits Bucket For August 20, 2009

Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum. And see the American Visionaries series from Schwarzfilm.




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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 06:15:35

Housing Recovery? Green Shoots “More Like Crabgrass,” Weaver Says
Aug 20, 2009

There are more signs of hope for the housing market. Improved median home prices and a revival of single-family construction combined with better-than-expected homebuilder earnings have bulls boasting.

Karen Weaver, global head of Deutsche Bank’s securitization research division, takes a more measured approach. She thinks it’s too “quite early to be calling a bottom” nationwide. “The green shoots are more like crabgrass.”

Here’s how she explains it:

Historically, from peak to trough, it takes more than four years for housing prices to bottom. That means some of the first and hardest hit areas like Phoenix and San Diego may, in fact, be near bottom. The Northeast, on the other hand, may still have further to fall since prices peaked in 2007.

However, if you’re looking for a full recovery, don’t hold your breath. Weaver says historically it takes 10 years for prices to return to previous highs.

In the meantime, prices will fall and foreclosures will rise. She believes national home prices will ultimately fall over 40% from peak levels, meaning recent talk of prices bottoming after a surprise turn in the Case/Shiller Index is premature.

Referring to a report done by the Federal Reserve of Boston - examining the Massachusetts downturn in the late ’80s – Weaver states, less than 7% of borrowers who had negative equity in their homes defaulted. Unfortunately, “the universe of borrowers is far riskier” today and unemployment more drastic. Therefore, she’s not counting on such low default rates this time.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:18:32

“The green shoots are more like crabgrass.”

Good description for largely vacant McMansion tract home developments…

Comment by arizonadude
2009-08-20 06:34:38

Anyone want to buy some sears stock today?They made a huge mistake merging with kmart imo.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:40:36

Kind of like a rich guy marrying down to the slum class, no?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:42:36

I have not set foot in a K-mart store for maybe two decades, but I still have vivid childhood impressions of K-mart as the place to buy cheap, worthless crap. Talk about a lingering negative brand image — what were those Sears folks thinking??? :-)

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-20 07:23:33

what were those Sears folks thinking???

They were thinkin’ that K-Mart was getting all that Professor Bear family retail action and they wanted some of it, I guess.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-20 07:29:24

Talk about a lingering negative brand image — what were those Sears folks thinking???

I know several people who work or have worked at Sears (they’re HQ’ed here). Their losses in recent years have been large and depressing. From what I’ve heard, the Sears execs are willing to try almost anything at least once, but they end up throwing fairly large amounts of money at problems and don’t always follow up on the strategies that actually work.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 08:12:34

Sears was probably thinking they were an old, over-sized, bloated retailer in decline, with no way to grow further, and needed to do something fast.. so they went out and bought another oversized bloated retailer in decline.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-20 08:19:54

Maybe Sears was looking more at the K mart “real estate” as the attraction..??…I know that Sears has a very large real estate holding…They own many of their sites..

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-20 08:56:28

I remember a business report stating that a large percentage of Sear’s profits came from their financing division. This would have been at least 6 years ago.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 09:45:20

scdave,

I read somewhere the reason why Sears bought K-Mart was for the real estate.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 09:50:18

I believe K-Mart at one time sold cheap American products. K-Mart was the original Wal-Mart.

Does anyone remember the Blue-Light specials at K-Mart?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 10:37:55

Nothing more exciting than a flashing blue light and the announcement- “Attention KMart shoppers! We have a blue light special on boys socks!”

I shop at KMart because it’s dead. Far more pleasant than a busy Wal Mart. (Unless you own it.)

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 10:46:34

I shop at KMart because it’s dead. Far more pleasant than a busy Wal Mart. (Unless you own it.)

+1 on that concept (though there aren’t any Kmarts around here).

For the same reason we like going on vacations during the off-season. There’s a lot to be said for the pleasantness of just avoiding crowds, even if the weather isn’t ideal.

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-20 10:53:42

Our Kmarts in the Detroit area always seem to smell strange, stale, and sort of medicine-y. Also the lighting hurts my eyes.
We don’t shop there much, although their OTC medicine brand items ares a pretty good value.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-20 11:38:19

Our newer K-Marts have huge isles and are un-cramped. Really, I’m not sure why I don’t go there more. It’s actually nicer than Target and Wal*Mart (this is a new one).

Also, I like Sears! When I go out on sales days to buy clothes, I generally wind up at sears getting cargo shorts for $20 and a couple of dockers collared shirts. Price is right. I go to other places like Dillards and can’t find anything I want. $100 shirts that say made in China? No thanks.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 11:57:09

I love the tools department in Sears

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:08:34

“The lighting hurts my eyes”

Silverback, really, are you that delicate?

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 12:40:30

I love the tools department in Sears

If I convert to Mormon, will you marry me? It’ll be worth it.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 12:50:12

packman,

No need to convert. I’m not a Mormon or belong to any faith.

Now if you like sci-fi, and comic books well who knows…

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 14:08:27

No need to convert. I’m not a Mormon or belong to any faith.

Well, not really willing to give up my current wife, so I was thinking I’d need to migrate to something that supports polygamy. :-)

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-08-20 14:11:12

Have your read John Scalzi?

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 14:19:57

I haven’t.

I just looked him up. I’m going to check Old Man’s War out of the library.

Thanks Rancher.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 14:25:16

SFBAG,

Count me into the sci-fi, comics (& graphic novel) and Joss Whedon club!

To return to an old discussion of Dollhouse that I think skeptic was part of also (I haven’t had much chance to hang out on HBB lately, although I pop in and out and catch up late at night. Went AWOL today):

Watching the first season, I was disappointed by the lack of the usual Whedon humor and characters’ quirky linguistic twists. I watched the episodes online on Saturday mornings and was so creeped out by the first ones that I had to pause the programs and pace or do housework before returning. The last few episodes contain developments that provide interesting undercurrents to the whole problematic premise and suggest potential for the upcoming season. (And while it is not foreshadowed, I sincerely hope that JW will have proved his point that he can write a show without humor and will put it back in.)

If the second season of Dollhouse looks promising, I will let you know.

BTW, I posted a longish response to your rhetorical question about churches and synagogues (added Hindu temples) in Middle Eastern countries. It’s not polemical nor related to any of the points in the larger thread - just addressing the question, which is interesting to me and something I know rather a lot about.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 14:38:39

Thanks hip for your response. As soon as I posted yesterday, I had a duh uh moment.

Yensoy also helped me see my mistake :)

BTW, I was watching BTVS scene from the episode “The Body” Wow oh wow, I forgot how great that episode was.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 14:56:40

In the couple years since I had watched BTVS, I forgot how good it was. I’m part way into season 4, and waiting for my Angel collection to arrive at Barnes and Noble. I’m watching late at night on my computer, sitting on the backyard deck. It’s going so much faster having my own DVDs, but I miss the interaction with the folks at Vulcan Video.

I’ve got volume 3 of Alan Moore’s Swamp Thing waiting for this weekend.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 15:00:42

Count me into the sci-fi, comics (& graphic novel) and Joss Whedon club!

YARRRRR! I wanna be in the club, too!
As you all have noticed, I am normally the epitome of quiet restraint and general deep-thinkiness and moderation and so forth, but when I learned that ‘Firefly’ had been canceled I emitted a fog-horn-like bellow of outraged anguish and flung myself to my knees in sorrow. And, no, I did not care that I happened to be in the Safeway’s produce isle at the time and that I dropped my red plastic shopping basket so that carrots spewed forth like Pick-up Sticks of Pain*. This was serious.

Later, at home, I earnestly prayed that Sweet Baby Jeebus would work His magic and somehow make ‘Firefly’ stay, and reminded Him of the best parts of various episodes, and asked Him if didn’t He want to see what happened? I even promised I’d do various good things if only He would give it a go.
Alas and alack, He couldn’t do it.

* I still can’t abide to look at carrots.** It reminds me of my pain, which will probably never entirely leave me.

** Oh, okayyyyy. I can in fact look at and even eat carrots again. It took awhile, though.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 17:09:27

Scalzi and Old Man’s War gets a thumbs up. The premise of the whole series isn’t QUITE swallowable, but it’s generally full of goodness.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 17:16:58

YARRRRR! I wanna be in the club, too!

Welcome to the club, Oly. You’ll fit right in.

You’ll love the clubhouse. No carrots. Free movie candy, soda, crackerjacks, and popcorn for the youngsters. For the rest of us, there’s always a big plate of fruit, wine and beer, platters of cheese and chocolates.

Oh, and the seats in the media room and the library are super comfortable.

Who was it went to Comic-con in Vegas this summer?

 
Comment by polly
2009-08-20 17:36:23

Me too, me too. Currently reading Dresden Files novels by Jim Butcher. Think I’m on number 6….

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 20:06:07

Dresden Files was on Sci Fi or now called the Syfy a few years ago. It was pretty good. Then the PTB yanked the series.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 22:31:57

Dresden is on DVD and actually worth a viewing. Netflix to the rescue!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:34:06

“…need to migrate to something that supports polygamy. :-)”

Have you considered relocating to Uzbekistan?

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-08-20 07:23:14

Sears has been a hedge fund that masquerades as a retailer for many years now.

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Comment by polly
2009-08-20 07:35:09

Really? How disappointing. Because my much loved “2 for $15″ NYC street festival sunglasses broke about two weeks ago and I was thinking of going to Sears for a new pair. I think that is where I got the last pair before the street fair ones. My ears must not be level because I usually have to try on a bunch of them before finding ones that fit. Also eyes are kind of bulgy so anything that puts the lens too close to my eye sockets pushes against my eye lashes and feels weird. It takes a while.

Well, I’ll give it a try anyway, though I have to admit that trips to the mall can be kind of traumatic.

Oh, why am I thinking about the mall on a Thursday? Its my birthday. I’m taking the day off.

Olygal,

Congrats on your new Trader Joes. Try the Triple Ginger Snaps.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-20 07:37:17

Its my birthday. I’m taking the day off.

And a most wonderful birthday may it be.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 09:52:14

Polly,

Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday dear Polly
Happy Birthday to youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
And many more

Hope you spoil yourself rotten today. :)

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 09:53:49

Have a good b-day, Polly! Hope you’re enjoying it in a cooler place than DC at this time of the year.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 10:35:55

Happy Happy Birthday! I’ll clink to you later.

My ears must not be level … eyes are kind of bulgy

Polly, I always imagine you looking something like Elizabeth Warren, but after seeing “In the Loop,” I am blending in a little of the Karen Clarke character to the image.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-20 11:13:35

Happy Birthday, Polly!

Sears had a number of employees in the National Guard when 9/11 happened. When those employees were called to duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, Sears continued to make up any difference in pay and benefits they might have lost under their military salary. I don’t know if they’re still doing it, though.

I like Sears’ paint and we have a tool chest full of Craftsman tools. Don’t care for K-Mart (renamed “Sears Essentials” in our area), though.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-20 11:38:14

Happy Birthday polly!!! :)

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-08-20 11:47:23

Happy Birthday, Polly!

Good choice in not working. I’ve never worked on my B-Day. It’s one day to treat yourself to many things enjoyable, so perhaps you should stay away from the mall as traumatic experiences aren’t what birthday’s are all about- unless you’re bothered by age milestones. Have fun!

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-08-20 12:27:37

When did this not-working-on-your-birthday thing start, anyway? I don’t remember that when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 13:17:10

Maybe about the same time that adult Halloween parties appeared? That’s something I don’t remember from growing up during that same period, but they seem really common now - I guess started during the years that I was overseas.

 
Comment by polly
2009-08-20 13:32:40

Montana,

I don’t ever recall it happening with my dad either. And I mostly took the day off ’cause I ended up working a sunstantial chunck of Sunday and was feeling sorry for myself, so I asked and my boss said yes. I’m sort of a project manager right now (not a new position, just got put in charge of part of a project), and life is a little more stressful than it used to be.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think taking your birthday off started around the time that companies started adding “personal” days to their time off. It was a while ago and I think they have pulled back from it (newest trend is “paid time off” which is nasty since it covers vacation and sick days - how the heck are you supposed to know over the summer whether you will need sick days in November?), but the idea was that it wasn’t “vacation” which you often had to take in one week chunks or needed manager approval for. Maybe it was meant as a way of giving people a few days off for religious holidays without calling it that and without discriminating against those who didn’t celebrate religious holidays? Anyway, I definitely remember a memo about “personal days” and it mentioned that you could take it on your birthday. I expect that was when I was in an NYC law firm and the partners saw all the NYTimes articles about how making us work 80-90 hours a week and never letting us take vacations decreased the quality of our work. And I think you actually HAD to take the personal days or they disappeared while technically you could get cashed out for the vacation, though they discouraged it.

Arizona,

I am stuck in DC right now and it is beastly hot outside. I can confirm that since I just came back from Staples (paper protectors for some music I need to learn) and Michael’s (a craft kit for a little girl) which are walking distance to me. Just couldn’t face the mall - not my favorite place. However, I am headed up to Canada next week. Can’t wait. Projected high temps are 20-21 C. Heaven. Maybe I’ll finally get some sleep.

Hip,

Hmm…Elizabeth Warren? Not really. I’m short. Shoulder length dark hair - wavy most of the time, but heading toward frizzy when we have 98% humidity for a few weeks in a row. Very big eyes and they are the opposite of deep set whatever that it called - you can see my upper eyelid even when my eyes are fully open - like a muppet. No glasses. Slightly pointy chin. Big mouth - literally and figuratively. Very curvy. I gained weight while my knee was injured, but I’m starting to work on that. I can’t think of any well known person that I look like, but I think I look generally unintimidating because people ask me for directions on the street all the time. Guess I look like a sister/aunt/cousin of nearly everyone whose ethnicity is northern or eastern Mediterranian, though my complexion is not olive. I’ve had people tell my I look Greek. I’ve had people ask me for directions in Spanish. A Hassidic woman walked up to me and asked my if I was Jewish in the NYC subway (she, at least, was correct). I certainly could pass for Italian. I tan easily, though lying in the sun has no particular appeal. Sort of the opposite of Olygal’s tall, skinny blonde thing.

Kim,

Interesting about Sears - good for them. I always used to get my winter coats at Sears. Got money from Grandma and Grandpa for birthday ($20 I think) which mom took and used to buy a parka - this was Massachusetts and it was cold and I walked to elementary school. If there was a color choice in my size, I got to decide that. If there wasn’t, I got what they had. Grandma knit a hat to go with the new parka too, but that wasn’t a birthday present. It was just Grandma. (God, I miss her) And I loved the “Wish” catalog each year, but can’t recall ever getting anything that I actually saw in it. I think I always figured that getting those toys was for kids who had Santa Claus.

Thanks for all the b-day wishes, everyone. In honor of the HBB I had popcorn for breakfast.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 13:59:22

Polly, I will revise my mental image, but keep EW’s (and that movie character’s) smartness and intensity.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 14:16:34

Happy Happy Happy Birthday, Polly!
*joins with SanFranGal in singing ‘Happy Birthday to Polly’ loudly and beautifully *

Sigh, oh, okay… the ‘beautifully’ part was a total lie. Only the ‘loudly’ part was truthful. See, that’s why I joined with SanFranGal in singing. I am dead certain she sings way prettier than I do. But my good wishes are there, nevertheless! :)

And great idea on the popcorn for breakfast. That’s shows the proper birthday decadence. I hope you followed up with a bourbon chaser.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 14:30:03

Ahh Olygal,

I only wish I had a great voice. Now my sisters have great voices.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:14:31

Happy B day Polly

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-08-20 17:08:49

I want to get in my Happy Birthday wish for you to Polly .

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-20 17:13:56

Maybe about the same time that adult Halloween parties appeared? That’s something I don’t remember from growing up during that same period, but they seem really common now - I guess started during the years that I was overseas.

Parents had a huge halloween party for their adult friends in ‘63 in the garage with a parachute to cover the interior of the garage. So cool. Portland Oregon.

AND
HAPPY BIRTHDAY POLLY!

knee surg next wednesday for moi.

 
Comment by polly
2009-08-20 17:33:04

Hey, desert dweller. Good luck with the knee surgery. It hurt less than I thought in intensity but laster longer than I thought. I am just past the two month mark now and really feeling much better. Not perfect, but much better. I’d say the most important thing is to get walking quickly. I kept using public transportation to get to work and walked to the station as always starting exactly one week after the operation and shorter walks before that. I it that helped.

 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-20 06:33:50

Why does everybody have to pee on our green shoots? Don’t they know they are artificial plants and can’t be killed? The plastic green shoots are trademarked by Goldman Sachs and are guaranteed by Billy Mays himself to withstand even a nuclear blast. But wait, there’s more…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:54:13

What does Goldman Sachs have to do with green shoots? Can you offer any evidence, rather than merely throwing out the suggestion repeatedly?

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-20 07:36:12

Ok. We can intelligently discuss any topic you want ad-nauseum regarding a housing bubble or the economy or politics or geo-ducks for that matter, but without acknowledging that the entire game is somewhat fixed there is really no point to any of it. I do not have any inside dirt on Goldman - just the same obvious publicly visisble scenario of events that everyone has witnessed regarding the whole meltdown and subsequent “fix” and “recovery”. I thought it was reasonably obvious to everybody that GS does indeed have the power to control our government (thusly the entire world) because of powerful connections such as Hank Paulson and TTT. GS is the top of the food-chain in banking. Those bastards took the entire fee world hostage when they said “give us what we want or you all will go down”. Our entire system is corrupt and apparently nobody cares. I guess I am just a little outraged. I sincerely apologize if I have taken anything away from the blog by incessantly blaming GS (as a metaphor for our entire corrup gov/banking system). I will stop immediatley. PS - I respect you PB and you should keep up the good work.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:49:32

“I sincerely apologize if I have taken anything away from the blog by incessantly blaming GS (as a metaphor for our entire corrup gov/banking system).”

I prefer to use Megabank, Inc as my metaphor, in order to not unfairly place all the blame on any one particular player.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 10:35:10

Yep. I’ve stated a few times that I think GS, while culpable - and perhaps the most culpable, is being treated as the fall guy for a whole set of guilty parties. Some of which - e.g. JPM (who invented CDS by the way) I think are as culpable or even moreso than GS, but somehow manage to avoid the spotlight.

Seems to me that in exchange for being the fall guys, the GS execs get the perks of a rotating door of various government/Fed positions. This for instance allows the PTB to claim that the government/Fed isn’t run by the same money trust that created the Fed in the first place (JPM, Chase, Citi primarily); that somehow things have changed. GS is fairly new on the scene relative to those others.

 
Comment by darthrealtor
2009-08-20 11:11:54

It’s not GS folks. It’s the Fed….the bank of last resort and where all money and power ultimately are derived from.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-20 11:35:09

It’s not GS folks. It’s the Fed….the bank of last resort and where all money and power ultimately are derived from.

GS may be a relative newcomer, but their reach is wide and deep.

GS is fully embedded into our financial structure — at the cabinet level, in administrative positions, in key policy posts, seeded throughout the Fed. They aren’t one and the same, but they have certainly grown into mutualistic organisms.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:19:52

“The entire fee world”

hahaha.

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-20 07:54:01

If you really want to go the conspiracy route, check out the analysis on the outflow of money market funds vs. inflow into the stock market since the March “bottom” (they don’t match) and taken together with Fed pumping actions in the various Treasury & credit markets, it can be argued that the Fed is indirectly interfering in the stock market via the broker-dealers of which GS is the biggest player (check the NYSE volume leader, GS has been the biggest volume leader lately).

Like I said, some people call people who make that inference “tin-foil hat wearers”, but hey this is the HBB so why not make a case for it?

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 08:12:10

“Like I said, some people call people who make that inference “tin-foil hat wearers”, but hey this is the HBB so why not make a case for it?”

I like mine shiny side out, for that oh-so-important “maximum reflectivity” that’s all the rage among hip, edgy, urban dialectical materialists these days.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 12:00:05

I like mine shiny side out, for that oh-so-important “maximum reflectivity” that’s all the rage among hip, edgy, urban dialectical materialists these days.

Too funny, cobalt. :-D

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 13:57:19

I like mine shiny side out, for that oh-so-important “maximum reflectivity” that’s all the rage among hip, edgy, urban dialectical materialists these days.

I laughed too. Mind if I borrow that, cobalt?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:47:45

“If you really want to go the conspiracy route, check out the analysis on the …”

No, I don’t want to go the conspiracy route. What is the point? Even if you put together a bullet-proof conspiracy theory and supported it so strongly with facts that it would stand up in a court of law, you would be conveniently ignored if not ridiculed.
This is not a vigilante task, folks. The Congressional GAO could to a bang-up job on the audit if they were authorized to do so, and could potentially shed light on why the stock market always goes up, no matter how gloomy the financial news.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 08:04:18

Some interesting evidence about the high percent of NYSE and ARCA volume that was directly attributable to Goldman mysteriously disappeared recently.

Well maybe not a mystery, just deemed too unimportant to report anymore. Seems that over half the volume some sessions a month ago was either Goldman buying or Goldman selling, usually to itself. A cynic could have claimed they were painting the tape at successivly higher prices, but that sounds too much like manipulation, and we all know they would NEVER do that.

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Comment by cougar91
2009-08-20 08:32:14

They are back on top. It was attributed to “reporting error” on the part of NYSE, but that only drives more rumors about these GS program trading machines and whether the Fed is indirectly channeling the printing press into the stock market via GS, etc..

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:27:54

“…Fed is indirectly channeling the printing press into the stock market via GS, etc…”

JoeyinCA was asking yesterday about why the Fed should be audited. One possible reason would be to determine whether and what kind of stock market manipulation is occurring. A little public debate into what kind of coordinated interventions involving the Fed and private banks are legal and what kind are not might do the banking system in this country quite a lot of good. It would also help BB further his stated goal of increasing transparency in the banking system.

 
Comment by darthrealtor
2009-08-20 11:14:32

Bear, you’re dreaming. It’s akin to asking the Mafia to audit itself. Last month the Fed got a bunch of Bernanke-wanna-bees together to write congress to let the Fed be. The Fed runs the show and I guarantee you will NEVER get an honset audit of it’s books.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:24:20

“It’s akin to asking the Mafia to audit itself.”

It’s the Congress that wants to audit the Fed, not the Fed itself.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 11:47:24

Question–If it were revealed that the FED pumped up stock prices, would joe6pk care? He’d probably approve if he owns any stocks himself. Most people care more about getting their $ than about ‘fairness’ or ‘legality’. They think a properly functioning market always goes up, and if it doesn’t- something’s wrong and the FED should fix it. (Now if the market craters, and it’s revealed that manipulation caused that, joe6pk might care then. But manipulated up? Joe6pk would approve.)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:51:35

And if the D-ratically controlled Congress gets their wish for a Fed audit, I hope they also inquire about whether the Fed deliberately engages in targeted efforts to prop up the value of housing. Since D-rats are all about egalitarian ideals, I would think it would be quite concerning if the Fed were engaged in a deliberate reverse-Robin-Hood wealth transfer scheme to enrich wealthy home owners through an implicit taking of wealth from non-homeowners.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:52:46

Generally speaking, I don’t think the job of the Fed should be to pick economic winners and losers. That job is reserved for our democratically-elected politicians :-) .

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 12:09:39

Lets give Robin Hood his due.. he didn’t steal from the rich and give to it the poor.. he stole from the government.. the sheriff… the tax collector.

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-08-20 18:28:27

And if the D-ratically controlled Congress gets their wish for a Fed audit, I hope they also inquire about whether the Fed deliberately engages in targeted efforts to prop up the value of housing. Since D-rats are all about egalitarian ideals…

Prof, let me tell you a little story about Maryland and purported egalitarianism:

Our state government is one party, D-mocrat. When they needed to raise taxes recently, they raised the sales tax - a regressive tax, which places more of a burden on the poor, than it does the rich.

Then, when they wanted yet more revenue, they pushed to legalize slots, and they got it, using a public referendum for cover. More gambling targets the poor, those with rougher jobs, lower education and means.

All done by a D-mocratic state legislature. I thought it ironic they put themselves forward as the party of the little guy. Because when it came to taking in more money, that’s who they went after first.

Both parties have principles - and that is to get elected and enrich themselves. The rest is window dressing.

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:15:17

Sorry about the cat pee on your shoot, pressboardbox. This reminds me of the really embarrassing time I took my dog for a walk out on the astro-turf. Apparently, not even the richest of fertilizers will make it grow.

Well, at least the ammonia is helping to cover up that rotten smell that had been emanating from the plant.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 06:42:32

Well IMHO the real problem with the comparison to the earlier bust in Boston is the AMOUNT that people are upside down by. I suspect that the metric that best represents borrowers inclination to default is the negative equity/income ratio. If you’re upside down by a few thousand, for most people, the benefits of staying put outweigh the windfall of default. But if you’re upside down by your annual income or more, it would take you a decade or more to pay your way to a positive net worth. I would like to see figures for that, but with the prevalance of liar loans, I don’t think that anybody can easily get an accurate figure.

Comment by SDGreg
2009-08-20 06:59:04

I suspect that the metric that best represents borrowers inclination to default is the negative equity/income ratio.

I think you’re right about that. Another factor may be the amount of time, if ever in some cases, that it may take the property to return to its peak valuation.

Also for that earlier case, was it significantly cheaper to rent then than to own?

Comment by measton
2009-08-20 11:09:41

I suspect that the metric that best represents borrowers inclination to default is the negative equity/income ratio.

I’d also factor in those who have to move and are even a little underwater.

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Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-08-20 15:30:22

SDGreg,

Here in Southern MD the sheeple believe the downturn is over - and we’re back to the races of double-digit increases. So, no worry of a 10 to 20% decline in values.

After run-ups that more than doubled over the course of the last ten years. Home values in my very old bay-front community are up over 400% since I bought 12 years ago.

The pain is just beginning to show as a few homes purchased during the boom are now coming on the market - at whacky wishing prices and just sitting. A couple of recent foreclosures have the over-mortgaged recent buyers (ha) up in arms.

This fall should be interesting.

Neil - I can finally bring out the popcorn.

I think I’ll drop a note in a few local mailboxes - just two words.

GOT BOXES?

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:05:41

Back in ‘86 I was living in a waterfront duplex in the town of California MD. The rent was $400, split 3 ways between a bunch of college students. What a difference 20 years makes.

 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-08-20 07:40:41

Boston is a snobby town and the new money has at least some desire to look like the old money. I don’t have the stats, but I bet that the culture was less inclinded to actual sub-prime, at least in the closer in (inside and just adjacent to 128) suburbs. Now, when the alt-A’s (much nicer sounding ) really hit the fan, Boston will need to look out below.

Also, there are still a few real jobs in Boston.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 09:58:17

You have to admit driving in Boston is a blast.

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Comment by laurel, md
2009-08-20 10:36:05

It used to be like driving in Cairo Egypt, without all the tooting car horns. Now with The Big Dig finished it isn’t as much “fun”.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-20 20:34:43

In the 60’s I lived in the Boston area. Learned to drive on a trip across the US w/ my husband. Drove every kind of thing from Kansas dirt roads to LA freeways. Eventually flew back to Boston. Could not drive there at all! No LANE markings for Chrissake…just, how many taxicabs abreast can squish into Washington Street.

 
Comment by Mike in Carlsbad
2009-08-20 22:13:07

I just got back from Boston. I refused to drive after a few days trying. Even my Garmin couldn’t handle it. Drove down too many WRONG WAY streets and freeway exits all because the GPS said to turn right there. GPS is worthless in a city like that, so many over lapping streets, and streets going in ways you wouldn’t think would be legal… then toss in a roundabout, forget it. I was happy to sit in my hotel room for most of the two weeks I was there. Whats with the cops with radar guns everywhere? Plus the freeway speed limit, everyone actually drives it, or close to it, nothing like California where we all drive 80MPH, it was too slow for me, too congested, and just confusing. One road would have 4 names Parkway / Road / RT45 / Junction 45. Made me want to run over some pedestrians in crosswalks, which, because it seems the state is too cheap to put in controlled crosswalks everywhere like Cali they just change the law.

 
 
 
Comment by Lisa
2009-08-20 08:42:18

“Well IMHO the real problem with the comparison to the earlier bust in Boston is the AMOUNT that people are upside down by. I suspect that the metric that best represents borrowers inclination to default is the negative equity/income ratio.”

And the mentality is totally different this time around….HGTV, flipping shows, etc. combined with zero down, pick a payment, liberate your equity loose lending standards add up to a very different picture.

In So Cal during the aerospace bust, defaults were lower than today, and I’m guessing mandatory 20% down payments and full monthly PITI had something to do with it.

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 06:52:09

Weaver says historically it takes 10 years for prices to return to previous highs.

I expect that real estate as an independent market will be left to fend for itself in the wake of a slowed but recovering general economy. Property will be the “worst investment ever” … untouchable for perhaps 8 or 10 years minimum.

I’m about 90% sure that the economy can progress without the RE component. The one remaining connection I see is the decline of the RE market as it affects overall employment.

The consequences in the financial sector of too much pressure brought on by too many RE related defaults could stop the flow of money, severely impact the retail markets, accelerate unemployment and so spoil the recovery of all other sectors despite unlimited government intervention.

But I think unemployment would need to reach very high levels…perhaps 25% and remain there, before such a generalized economic stall could take root.

Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 07:12:59

Well the difficulty is that relatively little* of the RE business can be outsourced, like other manufacturing jobs have been. Arguably, that’s part of the reason WHY we had a RE bubble: we no longer manufacture enough in the way of other items for those to be a bubble.

*Although hiring illegal immigrants can be considered partial outsourcing.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 07:34:11

We’ll find something to replace RE. Necessity is the momma of invention.

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 08:04:00

In this case, shouldn’t that be necessity is the mother of intervention?

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-08-20 11:14:43

Very cute, Jim, and sadly accurate.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:44:39

Joey:

The point is that we have decimated our job base by outsourcing labor through globalization. As long as other countries have very cheap currencies, then they will be able to provide labor at starvation wages. Because corporations temporarily enrich themselves by using this near-slave labor, us Americans can’t compete. Hence, our productive capacity is being auctioned off to the lowest bidder.

Jobs that can’t be outsourced (such as helping ppl buy/sell houses) can’t make up for a lack of basic productivity.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 13:43:13

Big V, suppose someone invented a humanoid robot that could do ANY job currently done by people.

You order it from Amazon, plug it in overnight, and the next day it jumps in your car, drives to work, and does whatever you do. At 5, it drives back home.. repairs itself if necessary.. repairs the car if necessary.. and plugs itself in and hibernates.

If every worker owned such a robot, would we be poorer for it?

 
Comment by Steve W
2009-08-20 14:04:56

Yes. We’d obliterate ourselves in about a year. I have no proof of this, other than realizing that keeping busy keeps me sane and because I’ve read way too many short stories by Ray Bradbury.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 18:11:59

No, but we don’t have such a robot. What we have is wage arbitrage. The two are not comparable.

The robot would grow food, build houses, etc for us.

Wage arbitrage simply allows companies to hire cheap and sell high, but it’s unsustainable because eventually the wages in said “high price” country become too low to allow selling high. That causes deflation. That’s why we have deflation now, and will continue to have it until we put a stop to the wage arbitrage (i.e., “globalization”).

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-08-20 07:17:10

IMO, what Weaver is failing to take into account is the, tada, housing bubble! It is very unlikely these prices will ever return in real terms.

Here’s a tip for these experts; let’s look back at previous bubbles and see if those prices ever came back. Japan, Florida, Texas, etc. As for the economy in general, it is more likely that any recovery will hinge on lower RE prices, as this will lower the cost of doing business. As was said here long ago, this isn’t rocket science, it’s much more important than that.

That said, I prefer to reflect on the Texas experience. Ultimately, we had to find a way to make a living other than RE and oil. But along the way there were terrific opportunities. The Perot Group bought land for $1,000 an acre for years that is now under an airport, etc. Every bust offers up this situation, and this is the biggest RE collapse in history.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 07:29:50

Are you saying that since lower RE prices are baked in, a general economic recovery is assured?

as for my calling RE the “worst investment ever, and untouchable, I was referring to popular opinion… while I, and a I’m sure a lot of other people, plan on snapping up some sweet deals.

airport .. i like that.. might just find me a spot big enough to land a small plane.. getting a pilots license can’t be that difficult.. hmm..

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-08-20 07:53:54

‘a general economic recovery is assured’

Based on my economics classes, the system operates in cycles. And history has shown that events like financial manias don’t negate that, but rather distort them. Did Japan recover? Yes, but are still hurting to a degree. IMO this is due more to government/central bank bungling. Will we make the sme mistakes? I wish the Fed chief was a student of manias instead of the great depression. He’s fighting a war that’s 100 years old, instead of seeing what we have in front of us.

The thing about Perots airport is, there are no passengers. For years it was discussed that north Texas needed a cargo airport. The Perots were in a position to build that, and with their low land basis, pulled it off. A perfect example of lower prices creating not only wealth for the smart buyer, but also economic progress as a whole.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-08-20 08:04:06

Having the city of Fort Worth incorporate the land and then give Perot a tax abatement also helped a lot as well.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 08:21:53

Having the city of Fort Worth incorporate the land and then give Perot a tax abatement also helped a lot as well.

Wealthy business people probably get that way because they understand the true nature of the relationship between business and govt..
Perot probably anticipated big favors from Fort Worth way back when his airport was just a gleam in his eye. Smart civic leaders really appreciate the immediate and future potential benefits of new industry, and they show it.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:52:06

‘…as for my calling RE the “worst investment ever, and untouchable, I was referring to popular opinion… while I, and a I’m sure a lot of other people, plan on snapping up some sweet deals.’

Not many sweet deals until the masses catch on to the ‘worst investment ever / untouchable’ meme. We are not there yet…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:53:57

‘We are not there yet…’

And again, the PTB are going to work frantically behind the scenes to make sure that real estate never becomes the “worst investment ever.” Given their abject failure to stem either housing price declines or the foreclosure crisis, I am guessing this bubble is too-big-to-fix :-) .

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 10:05:48

“too-big-to-fix”

LOL! Yeah, I think we’re ‘there’. As far as “I” am concerned, all of the interim actions of the Fed/Treas. etc. are really just short-term stop-gap measures to brace for impact.

At some point in the not too distant future, they’ll have other more urgent fires to put out and I agree w/ joey, housing -will- be left to fend for itself. We may have many children ( but only (1) set of “training wheels” )

So, I don’t know why I let myself get so bent out of shape over this? When voters figure out there really ‘won’t’ be any way to prop up home prices indefinitely, we’ll get despondent, and then move on.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:35:03

DinOR

Lying can only get you so far
When the housing market is FUBAR.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 10:46:28

PB,

Right, and I never meant to imply there haven’t been concerted efforts to do just that? My frustration lies in the fact that we squandered so many resources in a futile effort to prop it up.

We’re seeing a lot of “firsts” in this mess, but unlike a lot of others, I think we’re also seeing a lot of “lasts” too. It’s a large part of the reason I truly, truly wish we were having Town Hall meeting come off the rails over Financial Sector Regulation than Healthcare?

 
Comment by skroodle
2009-08-20 11:01:39

According to the county tax assessor, my parents house in North Texas was worth $100k in 1987 and it was also worth $100k in 2000.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 15:45:18

“My frustration lies in the fact that we squandered so many resources in a futile effort to prop it up.”

So, DinOR, I take it you are hinting at a two-pronged strategy, then?

1) Bulldoze lots of vacant, unneeded, unwanted housing in order to support higher home prices.

2) Get the building industry up and running again to build more vacant, unneeded, unwanted housing.

Does that about summarize the game plan?

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:18:20

Yes, the PTB have been “piling sandbags at the low tide line.” Typical behavior when a crisis is much worse than anticipated.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:51:28

“Healthcare”

Not to say it is not an important issue, but it also serves as a convenient distraction from having to clean up the cesspool known as the US banking system.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 07:34:22

Yep. The only other U.S. housing bubble to even approach this one - Florida in the 1920’s, didn’t see a rebound to previous levels in inflation terms - for 80 years. And that’s only because of an even bigger nationwide bubble. As you say - most likely home prices will never ever get to where they were in 2005, in inflation-adjusted terms.

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 08:11:24

Yes, of course. While I wouldn’t say that price won’t EVER return to bubble heights in real terms, in the bubbliest markets, 80 years could easily be reached. And of course over those time spans there can be alot of difference depending on the inflation adjustment that you use to look at REAL prices. CPI? PPI? Incomes? GDP? Opportunity cost? Treasury rates? But ISTR that from peak to NOMINAL break even was more than 30 years. 50? I don’t remember. The high inflation levels of the 70s/80s did it if nothing else managed.

 
 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-08-20 09:40:24

“IMO, what Weaver is failing to take into account is the, tada, housing bubble! It is very unlikely these prices will ever return in real terms.”

Exactly.

There are areas of Florida that didn’t see prices return to the (inflation adjusted) levels reached in the 1920’s real estate bubble untill THIS bubble.

That equity has gone to money heaven (or hell) and it’s NEVER coming back.

BTW, it’s this little uncomfortable fact that the banksters STILL aren’t admiting and sooner or later it’s going to catch up to them.

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-08-20 09:42:34

LOL. I guess I should have read the entire thread. I’m only like the fourth person to make that rather obvious point. Duhhh.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:22:55

That equity has gone to money heaven (or hell) and it’s NEVER coming back.-So true.

Where did the money go? The same place it came from, thin air and dreams. Make no mistake there ARE victims here. People who bought their first house at peak and still put 20% down. But for anybody who owned pre bubble, its all a case of easy come, easy go. All that money is no more (or less) real than it was at peak.

 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 11:44:15

Is that on I-35 W near that racetrack?

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Comment by Skip
2009-08-20 12:34:58

Yes, not too far from the Texas Motor Speedway.

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 07:22:28

joeyinCalif,

One of your best posts to date. Yes We Can have an America without the REIC leading every step of the way!

If you look at simple household items, toasters, irons, lawn sprinklers ( pssst, we haven’t made those in decades ) and contrary to popular opinion, we still manufacture stuff here.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 07:42:07

i think we’ll need something bigger than toasters and niknaks.. Overall cash flow from the RE industry was huge.
Not to say that RE won’t continue to generate a lot of money… but a lot will be missed.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 08:49:54

joeyinCalif,

Right, cash flow to the REIC that ( as evidenced ) was a total WASTE of financial resources and material. This will go down as the biggest misallocation of resources in history.

According to NAHB’s Chief Econ. they claimed “homebuilding is 12% of GDP!” ( Well, yeah, when suck the lifeblood out of the broader economy? )

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 09:56:38

My opinion: We (as a society) should have been investing in the noggins inside the real estate (read: increasing human capital), rather than the real estate itself.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 10:10:45

..was a total WASTE of financial resources and material.

perhaps we misunderstand each other.. I’m speaking of the RE industry’s contribution during normal times, not during bubbles..

A home is just about the biggest purchase a person can make. A lot of businesses and employees, many completely unrelated to RE, earn a living thanks to people buying homes.

Chop that action by 50% and the economy is taking a big hit. If we must replace the money normal housing activity was generating with some other product, toasters wouldn’t be my first choice.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 10:54:17

joeyinCalif,

Actually, we are -precisely- on the same page! That’s what I find so refreshing. We have so many within the REIC that have forgotten what ‘normal’ looked like that it’s hard to get them to recall just what it was?

THAT, is my starting and reference point. Ben has done a bang up job over the years showing how The Boom grossly distorted everything from lumber prices to copper to freaking drywall!

So right now I tend to picture the economy as having “stretch marks” from a very, very difficult delivery. ( No offense to all the wonderful Moms out there and NO I never have given birth! )

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-20 12:40:38

Spatula City?

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 13:33:18

Spatula City?

how about we pump up production of all types of high tech medical stuff for home and especially for export.. Most are so expensive people must lease them or go without..

like MRI machines.. i think they cost bout $3,000,000 each, but we could probably build them cheaper if mass produced.. plenty of customers.. Add about a million dollars to complete the installation on site..
Do ourselves and do the world a favor.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 14:32:30

joeyinCalif,

A post in moderation ( w/ link for Big V ) but exactly. My wife works for a Fortune 500 med. tech company and in spite of stern lay-offs, things are picking up and they’re as busy as ever!

Granted a lot of that is b/c they’re under manned but they’re hiring again in many dept’s. I think the problem is that most of us tend to think on the consumer level. And I’ll absolutely agree most things in your house ( disposable items ) are mfr’d in Chindia.

But that’s just a small part of the story. Again, I never knew anybody growing up that said “I want to work in a sock factory my WHOLE life when I grow up!” Did you?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 15:03:52

I never knew anybody growing up that said “I want to work in a sock factory my WHOLE life when I grow up!” Did you?

Besides me? No.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 15:05:20

And I’m not living my glorious dream, sadly.
But anyway I only wanted to work in a sock factory that made adorable socks. Like with stripes and jellyfishes and so forth, so maybe it’s all for the best.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-20 15:46:21

“I never knew anybody growing up that said “I want to work in a sock factory my WHOLE life when I grow up!” Did you?”

No, but I have an ex with a serious sock fetish, who I can imagine being extremely happy due to being constantly surrounded by heaping piles of socks in such a factory. Not to mention making the world a better place by producing prodigious quantities of socks.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 17:56:17

No, but I have an ex with a serious sock fetish,

You know, I have thought before ‘I bet Primey has a very exciting life but is too gentlemanly to discuss it.
I’m getting more sure of it by the minute. :lol:

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-08-21 12:29:45

You give me way too much credit, OlyGal!

But I do like my life pretty darn well; I find I have very little desire to part with it. :-)

Or even to change it much, really.

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 08:28:37

Joey, where do you think U6 is at right now?

If the Feds counted your fingers like they count unemployment, you would only have four fingers, as thumbs are not fingers, and pinkies are not fingers, and ring fingers are not fingers. They may be on your hand with the other fingers but when they try to downplay numbers, they come up with absurdities like that.

As in, well those millions of people out of work for years aren’t unemployed, they’re just “discouraged workers”. Voila, “unemployment number” is reported at half of what it really is.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 10:03:59

+1

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 10:29:35

Well, you’re always a plus ten in my book, SFgal!

You and I may not always buy the same cookies, but at least we both supported the bake sale.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 11:47:20

Thank you kind sir for the compliment. :)

Oh and I like how you describe our different point of views. Well said sir, well said.

+100

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 14:08:11

You and I may not always buy the same cookies, but at least we both supported the bake sale.

Yes, very well said. And both of you show classiness in this dialogue.
I think this is one of the best and most valuable things about the HBB, that people with such vastly different points of view discuss things with genuine respect, as well as intelligence and open-mindedness. I don’t read any other blogs—why bother? Ben’s is clearly the best—but every now and then I glance at other sites in passing and there seems to be lots of pettiness and personal insults and boring, useless cr*ap like that. Here on Ben’s Blog we’ve got strong personalities with very strong opinions, and yet I almost never see that c*ra*p here, no matter how heated the discussion becomes.
Very cool.

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 10:18:48

cobaltblue, if current unemployment is actually 25%, it’s evident that we can keep on truckin’ at 25%, and things will need to get lots worse before the whole economy stagnates.

Go ahead and pick a more reasonable number where there are so many unemployed that the economy simply cannot recover. It makes no difference to me what that number is.
Might as well argue about CPI which calculation is at least equally arbitrary.. pointless, imo.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 13:52:47

“cobaltblue, if current unemployment is actually 25%, it’s evident that we can keep on truckin’ at 25%, and things will need to get lots worse before the whole economy stagnates.”

I respectfully disagree. This train has jumped the tracks, gone over the cliff, and the ground below will be hit soon.

This is an economy that has stagnated.

Things will also get much worse. IMHO.

When the Fed, Treasury, and Administration throw trillions of debt on top of an already debt-crushed economy, it PREVENTS economic growth from occuring.

Much like putting 20,000 volts of electricity into a man’s bathtub might make him twitch and his eyes sparkle. It doesn’t work for long; and it winds up killing him.

 
 
Comment by gilly
2009-08-20 18:05:36

I hear ya’(I think I’m over the ex now, thanks SFG)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:50:39

“I’m about 90% sure that the economy can progress without the RE component.”

I’m about 99% sure the PTB are going to make sure this never happens.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:36:22

You’re the same guy who thought RE wouldn’t take down the economy at all, right? The one who was investing in FNM right before they failed and bailed? You’re still using the same incorrect reasoning that has brought you to all the incorrect conclusions thus far.

You are failing to acknowledge that $$ borrowed under the guise of “mortgages” was used to overinflate all markets of our economy (stock, commodity, labor, you name it).

Yes, there will be an economic recovery. As soon as all the money that had previously been “made” becomes subsequently “lost”. We’re not there yet. Gotta let the prime defaults work their way through.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:43:33

“You’re the same guy who thought RE wouldn’t take down the economy at all, right? The one who was investing in FNM right before they failed and bailed? You’re still using the same incorrect reasoning that has brought you to all the incorrect conclusions thus far.”

Hey Big V –

I am trying my hardest to follow the multi-leveled layers of this thread back to whomever’s post you are targeting. Is it joeyinCalif who got burned investing in FNM?

If so, then LMAO — no wonder he seems like he is always itchin’ for a fight :-)

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Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 22:58:59

Yes, I was talking to Joe.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Timmy Boy
2009-08-20 07:46:51

.
Is Real Estate a CAUSE or EFFECT of the ECONOMY?

Politicians & pundits alike CONFUSE these 2 items.

Real Estate prices are an EFFECT of:

1) Overall economy (read: employment)
2) Lending standards (read: existence of EZ money loans)

In the real world, Real Estate should NOT BE A CAUSE for a good or bad economy.

Real Estate prices should actually be a gauge on the condition of the economy itself… & NOT to be used as a way to BOOST the economy - which is kind of like trying to LIFT YOURSELF UP WHILE STANDING IN A BUCKET!!

Comment by lavi d
2009-08-20 07:48:51

which is kind of like trying to LIFT YOURSELF UP WHILE STANDING IN A BUCKET!!

Bukkit-strapping. Hm. I like it!

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-08-20 09:48:10

LOL. That reminds me of a joke I heard this week about a perpetual motion machine.

Positing from the known facts that cats always land on their feet and toast always falls butter side down. if you strap a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat and throw it out the window it will end up hovering about a foot off the ground for eternity.

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Comment by packman
2009-08-20 10:44:25

LOL - I heard that too, except the extended version -

The cat will remain hovering and spinning for eternity; with a buttered-cat array you could then create a high-speed rail from New York to DC.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:56:22

Eventually, the cat barfs itself to death, its body decomposes, and the toast falls off its back.

 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 14:16:28

Details, details. Those are version 1.0 issues that could be fixed in FCAHST 2.0 I’m sure.

(Floating Cat Array High Speed Train)

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 18:17:31

HAR!

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 08:46:45

Timmy Boy,

God love YOU Sir! Many of us have been sold a bill of goods by the REIC that has always sounded to me like “willing an erection” or eating an entire bottle of Ex-Lax and “holding it”.

( Eye rolls at umpteenth article on “How Real Estate Will Lead Us Out Of The Recession! )

Other than to the actual participants ( the damn thing is a side bar! ) I don’t have the stats at my fingertips and I won’t ask ‘this’ crowd to take ‘my’ word, or anyone else’s at face value. But I have a good friend that’s been around mfr. his whole life and I know he would contend we’re manufacturing as much or more than we -ever- have! It’s just that due to moving upstream and our gains in efficiences, a smaller percentage of us are employed by it.

So now we have to ask ourselves, is the function of manufacturing to produce a finished prdt. or is to “provide employment”?

Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:59:29

Really, so we’re not outsourcing manufacturing? Then how come such a large percentage of goods available are made in other countries? You can go to any store or hospital to find that probably 3/4 of the stuff comes from somewhere else. I’m thinking your friend is living in a dream world.

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Comment by oxide
2009-08-20 09:08:35

Timmy,

Real Estate prices are only an effect (and therefore an effective indicator) of the economy if lending standards remain intact. It’s not the number of people that can afford a house; it’s the number of people that can afford a house at 20% down 30 fixed mortgage at historical rates ~10%(?) or so.

In early 2003, nobody could afford anything 20%-30 fix-10%, which is why they had to open the ARM/IO floodgates to the hoi polloi. The economy sure looks better if you move up the goalpost (or lower the basket) of your steadiest indicator. But the indicator of traditional mortgage standards, even in 2007 we should still have been in the toilet economy of late 2002.

Comment by Al
2009-08-20 11:04:03

I’d like to add, if you want to increase the number of people that can afford a house, build a less expensive house. Making them smaller and leaving out the flourishing touches wouldn’t affect real quality.

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Comment by oxide
2009-08-20 11:36:33

Al, they already do that. Except it’s not a “house.” They build a bunch of cheap “homes” that share walls and call them “condos.” And then they charge twice as much as they should anyway.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 11:50:27

Al,oxide,

Wow, looks like a new “element”? Agreed on both counts. McMansions ( even at current prices ) have become a permanent fixture in the Phantom Inventory. Just.., totally out there.

Most builders get it now and are adjusting their floorplans/amenities. Little late… but? And again, the whole concept from incepetion is that condoze were ’supposed’ to be an affordable way to downsize.

How they -ever- became “upscale” is beyond me.

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-20 12:23:11

I always saw the condo as a limited use item. Young couples without kids, or more likely seniors. But just like no-doc mortgages they got misused. There is probably an argument for a certain percentage to be upscale, for well off retired folks who want a place of their own but none of the maintenance.

But I definitely agree oxide, the builders substituted an expensive apple (lux condo) for an affordable orange (modest house), and the huddled masses ate it up.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:50:31

Well it’s all about land IMHO. From McMansions with one blank wall so you don’t look into the neighbors bedroom, to townhouses and condos, it’s all about putting the maximum square footage on the minimum acreage. For good AND bad, density is the future, because suburban sprawl is fast approaching it’s limit in many areas.

 
 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-20 13:35:58

Good post Timmy.

 
 
Comment by Will
2009-08-21 02:53:00

Problem here is that house price “history” is not very well documented. Prices in SMSA’s like Boston, Houston, or Honolulu that had price bubbles since the early 1970s suggest recovery times like 10-15 years, but if you could get data for serious bubbles like the 1920s I think you wouldl find much longer recovery periods. An example of 1, my old house on Staten Island NY, took about 35 years to recover to it’s 1928 (new) price of $19,000. This hous was in a good upper middle class neighborhood (Randall Manor) in a growing city the whole time.

Since average pirces in the US do not advance faster than general price inflation, the real price quite likely will never recover from a super high peak like 2006 in Florida, California, or even the nation as a whole — look at the Schiller roller coaster.

Finally housing is a depreciating asset. The maintenance on my SI house above would easily have been more than the new price over the 35 year period. (two roofs, two furnaces, new plumbing, 3 appliance replacements, rewiring, 8-10 paint jobs, cracks in the foundation and plaster…).

Wait until you can clearly see the bottom before you begin bottom fishing.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:17:12

Some have conjectured that perhaps the Chinese economy faces similar issues as those faced by the Western world at the end of a credit bubble. Here is a YouTube video depicting a veritable conclave of what appear to be nearly-empty skyscrapers in the central business district of a large Chinese city. What will become of all these skyscrapers if they are largely vacant? Is this an anomaly, or do many Chinese cities have a similar cityscape?

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 07:31:31

Professor Bear,

Ever see the series “Life After People”?

The carrying costs! ( My head hurts )

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:55:04

Luckily you don’t have to carry them costs…

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 11:52:57

PB,

LOL! Yep, well ‘there’s’ something “positive” isn’t it?

Perhaps in order to make ourselves feel a ‘little’ bit better we should all be weighing the festering stinkholes we’re *not a direct part of?

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Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 06:17:54

Texas bank hit by California dreaming…

Although the failure of Austin-based Guaranty Bank looms, its problems reflect the housing bubble in the Golden State rather than issues at home.

NEW YORK (Fortune) — Bank regulators have a Texas-sized problem on their hands — though it’s easy to see much of the trouble resides farther west.

Guaranty Bank, an Austin-based savings institution with $13.5 billion in assets, is expected to be seized by the FDIC by the end of the week. According to multiple reports late Wednesday, Spanish bank Banco Bilbao Vizcaya (BBV) has won the bidding for Guaranty.

Representatives for the FDIC and Guaranty were not immediately available for comment.

A private equity group led by investor Gerald Ford — who got a federal bank charter in November so he could buy failed banks — also reportedly made a bid for Guaranty. Other banks said to have expressed interest were JPMorgan Chase (JPM, Fortune 500) and Toronto Dominion (TD), which made a failed bid for Florida’s BankUnited when that bank was auctioned by the FDIC in May.

Guaranty’s (GFG) closing would mark the second-biggest bank failure of 2009, after last week’s collapse of Alabama’s Colonial Bank, which was seized by the FDIC and sold to regional bank BB&T (BBT, Fortune 500).

Guaranty reiterated Monday that it doesn’t expect to survive following its failure to raise new capital. The bank lost $174 million in the second quarter, according to its latest quarterly report to the Office of Thrift Supervision.

Comment by az_lender
2009-08-20 07:39:59

When I found the entire article, the most interesting detail for me was an assertion near the end that Utah now ranks 5th in foreclosure rate (behind NV, AZ, FL, CA in some order). These five were characterized as “housing bubble states.” It seems quite recent that some Utahan trolls were shouting “it’s different here.” I really wouldn’t have suspected that Utah would pop nearly to the top of the list in FC rates, even though we are all well aware of the Calif equity locusts’ activities in some places like Park City.

 
 
Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-08-20 06:21:28

Yesterday I did my best channeling of Dave Ramsey and helped another soul get “debt-free”!

I told my client that in a few short weeks he can call Dave and yell with the other ex-debt slaves.

Of course, my program involves the debt snowball. You pile all the debt into a big ball and kick the focker on down the hill.

Chapter 7 Dave! He’s debt free!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 09:06:28

If more payment-makers find their way to Joe’s office, thus, kicking their big, bad snowballs down the hill, what will the debt industry do?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 10:34:11

Get bailed out by the gov and give new credit cards to the bankrupt. (Can’t declare again for a while!)

 
Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-08-20 11:24:36

I think we can count on it. This summer has been the “Indian summer” that has encouraged some people to “hope” things will “change” and their debt will become manageable.

I have a feeling that September will be a month of capitulation for many who have been holding on by their nails.

Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 11:59:46

Joe Lawyer,

I tend to think, be it Suze Orman, Clark Howard or DR, these on-air gurus have been very specifically cautioned about advocating BK.

I haven’t a shred of proof, but.., I think it’s kind of obvious. A few lifetimes back when the credit crunch first became apparent, there was an online video of Jim Cramer ( The Street.com ) where he ( in typical fashion ) was screaming at his shill “reporter” for consumers to “dump their house and keep their credit cards!”

( It was taken down shortly there after )

I realize he wasn’t calling for people w/ means to do a “conveniency” filing, but walking away from DEBT nonetheless. Now the msg. is to “work w/ your creditors”.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 13:27:07

As long as the payment makers “work with their creditors,” they won’t be going on strike. But when they stop workin’ and start strikin’, oh, boy…

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 14:36:15

Arizona Slim,

No argument here. Again, my point was that it’s very much an “orchestrated” message. There isn’t much difference between the talking heads on these topics but they were in lock step on this one.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:28:27

Dissension in the ranks threatens to mar this year’s Jackson Hole central bank love fest. I hope they don’t forget to propose measures to align the risks to bank managers’ incentives with those facing their share holders. If top bank managers routinely get paid billions in bailout bonus money as a reward for bringing the global economy to its knees, then too-big will obviously keep right on failing, spectacularly and frequently.

Hoenig Stirs Debate on Bank Failures as Fed Forum Convenes
By Scott Lanman

Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) — The host for central bankers attending the Federal Reserve conference this weekend to discuss the financial crisis is a regional Fed chief who’s making waves with his proposal for letting big U.S. banks fail.

Thomas Hoenig, the Kansas City Fed president, will welcome Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke, European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and dozens of other central bankers to the annual symposium in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, starting today. Hoenig said he hopes the gathering will serve as a model for handling crises in the future.

Bernanke has urged Congress to back part of Hoenig’s proposal for dealing with faltering big banks, which would wipe out shareholder equity in any that receive government aid. The Treasury Department’s so-called resolution authority plan, while likely to result in stockholder losses, doesn’t require it.

“Tom is leading the mainstream on this,” said former Fed Governor Lyle Gramley, now senior economic adviser with New York-based Soleil Securities Corp. “He’s ahead of the curve.”

Hoenig, 62, took office in 1991 and is soon to be the longest-serving Fed policy maker. Out of the 12 regional Fed presidents, he is one of two to have served as a head of bank supervision. Hoenig is tougher than his colleagues on inflation, having dissented from interest-rate votes four times since 1995, always for tighter policy.

Alternative to Bailouts

Companies with weak capital or investor confidence shouldn’t be bailed out, Hoenig said in a private talk in Omaha, Nebraska, in March. He said the government instead should declare them insolvent, replace managers, remove the bad assets and require shareholders to take losses. Hoenig broke from his usual practice of speaking from notes on index cards for non- economic comments and released written text entitled “Too Big Has Failed.”

Comment by Asparagus
2009-08-20 08:03:13

In 2006 Financials made up 22% of the SP500.
Today, Financials make up 13.4% of the SP500.

I’m melting……..

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:56:48

Didn’t FPSS mention once that The Wizard of Oz was written as a metaphorical description of banking crises? I need to read that book now that I have finished The Foreclosure of America.

Comment by oxide
2009-08-20 09:15:02

Yep, it’s a metaphor for the battle between the silver standard and the gold standard. Wiki has it all laid out. Search for The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, the book version.

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Comment by ProperBostonian
2009-08-20 09:48:00

PB,
“The Wizard of Oz” . . . was written at a time when American society was consumed by the debate over the “financial question,” that is, the creation and circulation of money. . . . The characters of “The Wizard of Oz” represented those deeply involved in the debate: the Scarecrow as the farmers, the Tin Woodman as the industrial workers, the Lion as silver advocate William Jennings Bryan and Dorothy as the archetypal American girl
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-1.php

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Comment by DinOR
2009-08-20 12:55:09

ProperBostonian,

I’ll take you at your word, but just like Beatle’s lyrics, I’ve seen numerous interpretations, and they all seem “plausible”?

 
Comment by awiating wipeout
2009-08-20 13:12:01

I am a huge fan of Harold Arlen, a very talented composer, who along with lyricst Kip Harburg, wrote the film score. (Ira Gershwin helped w/the lyric ending of Rainbow, btw). I don’t buy it.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 13:14:01

It’s a metaphor for the Great Depression.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-08-20 13:45:06

” That year he moved to Chicago, where he continued to write, and where he authored The Wonderful Wizard of Oz in 1900.”

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-08-20 14:46:52

“Baum’s move to Chicago coincided with the 1893 depression and the militant stirrings of the labor movement. The depression of the 1890’s was the worst in U.S. history up to that time. Farm prices sunk to new lows. Unemployment caused havoc, desperation and union militancy among the urban working class. In 1894 American Railway Union president and soon-to-be socialist Eugenne Debs led the Pullman strike in and around Chicago. The same year Jacob S. Coxey, a lumber dealer from Massillon, Ohio, and a Populist, led a mass march of umemployed workers to Washington to demand a federal public works program. “

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 18:19:43

Oh, oops. Solly.

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 10:18:42

If you seen the musical Wicked the so called Wicked Witch of the West didn’t melt

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:29:36

I saw it two weeks ago :-)

I note that the bankers have not melted in the real world, either — when the system melts down, they get the same big bonuses as ever.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-08-20 13:45:25

That doesn’t say much. Oly won’t melt either. :)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 13:55:33

You!
* dramatic gasp of outrage *
:lol:

…It’s true, though. If I haven’t melted in our delightful PNW rainy season of 8 straight months of solid rain each and every year, well then, nothing will melt me. Especially since I’ve developed these nice nictitating membranes and the protective coating of moss.
You know, moss is underrated as a fashion statement and low-maintenance garment.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 14:13:02

I prefer to wear mushrooms. I tell people I’m a ‘fun-guy’.
(rim shot)

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 14:33:14

I prefer to wear mushrooms. I tell people I’m a ‘fun-guy’

Giggle with a groan

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 15:06:39

Giggle with a groan

Ditto. :)

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-08-20 15:15:31

You ARE a frog! double eyelids, no less!!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 17:58:47

You ARE a frog! double eyelids, no less!!

Nuh uh!
*blink (blink), blink (blink)… *

:lol:

…Actually, they would really come in handy. I stick my head in the water all the time. I’d also like gills. Oh yeah, and a built-in ray-gun mounted on my head that could go off when I activated it mentally.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 19:08:40

Oh yeah, and a built-in ray-gun mounted on my head that could go off when I activated it mentally.

Of course, then half the town would be smoking flinders in about two days. I’m kinda high-strung. So maybe it’s for the best I don’t have one of those thingies.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:55:52

Well Greenspan was certainly POP-U-LAR.

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Comment by tresho
2009-08-20 09:10:41

“Too Big Has Failed.” That’s step 1. Next step, what to do with institutions that become, or threaten to become, Too Big to Fail. Call in the Trustbusters?

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 06:30:22

I keep waiting to read about all of the jobs being created and or saved by all the BARF money. HBIC has got some splain’n to do.

U.S. jobless claims unexpectedly rise.
August 20, 2009, 8:54 am EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The number of U.S. workers filing new claims for jobless benefits unexpectedly rose last week, a government report showed on Thursday, fanning worries of an anemic recovery from the worst recession in 70 years.
Reuters - Attendees at a job fair line up to gather information about a prospective employer in a Washington hotel, …

Reuters - Attendees at a job fair line up to gather information about a prospective employer in a Washington hotel, …

Initial claims for state unemployment insurance benefits rose 15,000 to a seasonally adjusted 576,000 in the week ended August 15 from 561,000 the prior week, the Labor Department said. Analysts polled by Reuters had forecast new claims slipping to 550,000 last week from a previously reported 558,000.

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-08-20 07:58:40

From the same article:
“”I think that we’re hoping for the numbers to stay below 600,000, and not until we get below 500,000 can we be more certain that there is an economic recovery,” said Linda Duessel, market strategist at Federated Investors in Pittsburgh.”

So now as long as its below 600,000 its not too bad? Maybe I’m misunderstanding this, but aren’t these NEW claims? So doesn’t this mean that there are over HALF A MILLION new jobless EVERY WEEK? Is this not a horrendous thing, and should we not ignore the 10k - 20k weekly fluctuations?

On the other hand, a couple of weeks ago when jobless claims were a little less than expected the markets went up 200 points or something. Today when they are more than expected the markets are up because China had a bounce? Give me a break.

There is always some good news and some bad news on any given day. It’s #$%@ing unbelievable the MSM keeps hopping from good news item to good news item (even when the good:bad ratio is 1:10) and manages to hoodwink the masses into believing that recovery is underway.

Ironic isn’t it? First they denied the recession. Then when they finally admitted it they said it started 12 months ago (implying that it had nearly run its course and recovery must be near). Now they are saying its over already, BEFORE we actually have the GDP numbers for this quarter. So they could not see the start of the recession until 4 quarters into it, but they can see the end while still in the 1st quarter.

When will this BS end? I feel so helpless, like watching someone getting raped and powerless to help. There is only one concrete thing that I know to do, and that is to contribute towards, and otherwise support, Peter Schiff’s candidacy for Conn senator. It’s a tough ask but I think he can do it. Imagine the bastard crook Dodd being defeated. Imagine the speeches the senate will have to listen to. It could well be the start of something incredible. That’s my only hope right now.

Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 08:14:35

“When will this BS end? I feel so helpless, like watching someone getting raped and powerless to help. There is only one concrete thing that I know to do, and that is to contribute towards, and otherwise support, Peter Schiff’s candidacy for Conn senator. It’s a tough ask but I think he can do it. Imagine the bastard crook Dodd being defeated”.

The system has to break down completely before it can be re-built. Replacing representatives the likes of Dodd, is a good start. At least adding a speed bump helps a little.

Problem is incumbents get to buy their votes with your tax dollars, and that’s a bottomless pit.

Best of luck getting Schiff in, I’ve been voting against the pocket pickers for years, to no avail sadly to say.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-20 10:53:35

The attempt to pump up consumerism by the MSM, gov & bankers is a tried and true system over the last few decades for reviving the economy. Consumers start to spend, retail replenishes inventory, factories ramp up and hire workers who add demand.

Unfortunately, globalization has broken that process. The whole world has to ramp up together now. And being a net importer, our economy will fall less than say Japan’s, but will ramp up much less and slower also.

I think they’re trying to do the right thing, they just don’t understand how much the system has changed.

Comment by measton
2009-08-20 12:20:21

Thus they hang their hat on the green energy revolution and building infrastructure. Jobs that will stay in the US.

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Comment by measton
2009-08-20 12:18:20

When will this BS end? I feel so helpless, like watching someone getting raped and powerless to help.

Actually it’s like being raped while watching everyone you know get raped and being powerless to help.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-20 14:32:15

Wow. That’s a morbid analogy.

I sort of feel like Mongo in Blazing Saddles. “Mongo only pawn in game of life.” There, the imagery is better and it makes you laugh because it’s a funny movie.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:34:12

Central bankers should get out of the capital markets, and banks back to business lending

Peter Crabb - Northwest Nazarene University - Idaho Statesman
Published: 08/19/09

This is the week for the annual central banker pilgrimage. Central bankers don’t flock to some ancient shrine. They head for one of the West’s most beautiful resort towns – Jackson Hole, Wyo.

As our current financial crisis unfolded last year, the August meeting was entitled “Maintaining Stability in a Changing Financial System.” At the risk of understating the situation, the financial system has since been unstable and changed dramatically.

Many financial institutions, both big and small, are no longer with us. The government has a much larger role in financial markets as direct lender and regulator. U.S. Consumers rate the financial industry as one of their least favorites, along with the auto and oil industries.

These central bankers will undoubtedly pat themselves on the back, and perhaps rightfully so, for having averted a depression. The financial crisis brought on a deep recession, but we are far from repeating the global problems of the 1930s.

What these bankers have not addressed is the problem of financial institutions that are “too big to fail.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:39:34

Do these concerns seem overblown to anyone besides me? Why would the dollar risk tanking at this point, now that green shoots have matured into sturdy trees and the financial crisis has ended?

At any rate, I personally never much cared for collusion at the top of the global banking cartel.

Bernanke Diverging With King Means El-Erian Sees Dollar Decline
By Rich Miller

Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) — Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and fellow central bankers gathering in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, are showing scant signs of reprising the coordinated stance they took fighting the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression as they deal with its aftermath.

The danger is that such a disjointed approach will lead to volatile financial markets, a damaging drop of the dollar and slower global growth, Mohamed El-Erian, chief executive officer of Newport Beach, California-based Pacific Investment Management Co., said in an interview.

“The question is not whether the dollar will weaken over time, but how it will weaken,” said El-Erian, a former deputy director of the International Monetary Fund whose firm runs the world’s largest bond fund. “The real risk is that you will get a disorderly decline.”

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-20 07:36:42

At any rate, I personally never much cared for collusion at the top of the global banking cartel.

Naturally — the only people in favor of that collusion are members of the cartel, plus a few well-connected cronies and associates who can place sure-thing wagers based on inside knowledge.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 08:59:23

Has anyone bothered pointing out yet that coordinated currency collusion among central bank cartel members represents a step in the direction of one world currency & one world government by banksters?

Just curious…

Comment by packman
2009-08-20 10:51:59

Nope - never thought of the concept, and would deny it to the bitter end. It’s all on the up-and-up, yesiree.

(P.S. If we stop seeing posts from you at some point, is it safe to assume the black helicopters showed up?)

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Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-20 06:44:49

“Stocks are opening moderately up this morning after a worse-than-expected weekly jobs report. New claims for unemployment benefits jumped unexpectedly to 576,000 last week”

Yahoo Finance : actual headline

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:50:47

unexpectedly

That word seems to accompany all economic data releases these days…

Comment by Skip
2009-08-20 07:28:01

Sounds like someone didn’t get the memo to make the numbers better this week.

 
Comment by michael
2009-08-20 07:33:15

i wonder if that word is supposed to soften the blow.

“hey honey…i unexpectedly totaled your BMW convertible last night.”

hmmm….don’t think so.

 
Comment by Asparagus
2009-08-20 08:10:05

Does anyone else see the motto “buy on the bad news, sell on the good” being taken entirely too far.

It seems to me that lately bad news is driving the market higher and when good news comes, it’s all down hill.

Too many contrarians out there?

 
Comment by tresho
2009-08-20 09:14:12

unexpectedly

That word seems to accompany all economic data releases these days…

That word appearing in an MSM statement triggers a flashing “BS alarm” every time.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 10:27:10

I like your definition of unexpectedly.

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Comment by Michael Viking
2009-08-20 07:04:42

The stock market news (and the way it’s rising) is reminding me of very much how it was late last year and early this year. A constant stream of “stocks are up on A” followed by “stocks are down on A” followed by “up on B” followed by “down on profit taking”. It’s also back to going up on bad news and up on good news with the occasional dive. It’s eerie to me. I wonder if it means it’s going to come all crashing down just like it did last time it made me feel this way.

Reminds me very much of housing since about 2000. I kept wondering “Who’s outbidding me?” “How do they have so much money?” “Who can afford this?” “Who can housing keep going up higher?”. I know the answer to that now.

This is my brain on “Mania” and “Bubble”.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 07:05:54

Investors don’t really respect the weekly reports.. too short term. The four-week moving average is around 4-times better at illustrating what’s going on.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 09:00:27

Huh? The 4-week moving average is the average of 4 weeks’ worth of old news. How is that a better illustration?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 09:26:00

Seems self evident to me..
Would you be better able to evaluate an improvement or decline in someone’s batting average by considering their performance in two consecutive games or four games?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 12:39:39

Better comparison:

The past week’s results versus the past 4-weeks.

Answer: It depends.

If a batter just injured his throwing arm a week back, I would take the 1-week average.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 13:02:43

well.. you’re right, but you’re cheating.. an injury is not included in a batting average.

Bookies have the time to track injuries, follow up on rumors of marital problems.. changes in personal habits.. all sorts of stuff. Like them we should take advantage of as much information as possible.

My contention is that the longer the record, the more likely you are to detect a trend… or a lucky swing.. or a bad pitcher..

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 18:57:31

“…an injury is not included in a batting average.”

But ‘unexpected’ economic shocks are included in average home sale prices.

 
 
 
Comment by Al
2009-08-20 09:17:13

No moving average stat should predict anything. The fact that it does shows how messed up the markets really are.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 09:56:30

Stats don’t predict anything. If they did we’d all make money in the markets.. all be winners in Vegas.

An unemployment stat is just a clue that may or may not be relevant. When added to a bunch of other clues, one may then feel confident enough to take a calculated risk.
What’s the alternative to taking a calculated risk? There are two. Don’t invest at all, or give your monkey a handful of darts..

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Comment by Al
2009-08-20 11:20:09

Looking at a trend and expecting it to continue should be about the same difference as using darts. Too many people (chartists mainly) use non-predictive historical information like moving averages to make decisions. Because the market is affected by those decisions, the non-predictive information becomes predictive. To a point. Eventually the trend no longer is your friend because the non-predictive info that is guiding people pushes the markets out of whack (usually too high.) Fundamentals kick in and everyone decries “no one could have seen this coming.”

Looking at unemployment, inventories, inflation rates, etc should be able to give us a clue. We should be able to use that type of info to make reasoned decisions, albeit ones that contain risk. The risk level is much higher, however, because the markets are affected by non-predictive information. The next time someone says the markets are forming a ‘head and shoulders’ or reaching a ‘resistance level’, you know they are helping to distort the markets with useless information.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 11:31:04

..Because the market is affected by those decisions, the non-predictive information becomes predictive…

According to that, you’ve got predictive information.

But maybe chartists will react as expected.. and maybe they won’t. Maybe they predict their own reactions and react accordingly..

I have to insist that nothing predicts. People’s “predictable reaction” to statistics varies widely enough to be useful or useless as often as any other market information, and those results can be charted.. and it all becomes just another stat.

 
Comment by Al
2009-08-20 12:36:07

Just to clarify, when I say predictive I don’t mean in absolute terms. It means there is an increased chance of something happening. For example, if unemployment rises it is likely that the sale of cars will go down. Makes sense. However a CFC programs could interfere or many other factors, which is why you can’t rely on a single factor. Information could be for a particular stock or the whole market. The people who do the best job of this come out ahead.

In another case, someone notes that a stock has gone up for 4 weeks in a row, and that 7 out of 10 previous case the stock went up for the 5th week. If they make a decision based upon this, then they are adding noise to the market. The market becomes less efficient because irrelevant information being priced in. You can win this game as well, but you’ll see a lot more wild fluctuations in said markets and it becomes better just to stay away.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 12:52:09

i didn’t take probability and statistics and wouldn’t want to take the “predictive” discussion further due to lack of knowledge.. but i do gamble enough to have gained a healthy fear of falling into the predictive mindset..

Sure, the market is moved by investors of all types trying to predict and it’s all noise.

By way of a thought experiment, lets filter out all the noise. What’s left? I don’t see anything at all.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 17:12:57

‘i didn’t take probability and statistics and wouldn’t want to take the “predictive” discussion further due to lack of knowledge’

Isn’t that pretty much saying you have no idea WTF about the subject you are discussing? Or am I missing something?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 06:44:59

Corporate Defaults Soar to $453 Billion, S&P Reports

Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) — Corporate defaults worldwide rose in 2009, surpassing the number for the whole of 2008, Standard & Poor’s said in a report today.

A total of 201 issuers defaulted through Aug. 12, affecting $453.1 billion of debt, S&P said. That’s up from 126 defaults totaling $433 billion for all of last year, the report said.

The speculative-grade default rate reached 8.6 percent in July, up from 8.3 percent the month before, according to the ratings firm. The number of defaulted high-yield bonds is now 10-times the level recorded in November 2007, S&P data show.

The rate at which U.S. high-yield issuers default on their obligations reached 9.4 percent in July, compared with 6.1 percent in Europe and 6.7 percent in emerging markets, S&P said.

Speculative grade, or high-yield, bonds are rated lower than Baa3 at Moody’s Investors Service and BBB- at S&P.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:45:24

What’s the big concern over the FDIC running out of money? Isn’t there still a technology called a printing press?

Capitol Report

Aug 19, 2009, 3:51 p.m. EST
Expect banks to be hit with major fees for deposit insurance
FDIC considers another $5.6 billion fee on banks; 77 insolvencies for 2009 so far

By Ronald D. Orol, MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The manner in which five banks collapsed on Friday, costing the resource-stretched Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. roughly $3.7 billion, is raising concerns about the agency’s depleted insurance fund used to protect depositors.

That’s driving expectations the agency will look in the short-term to cover losses by slapping large additional special fees on banks, with larger financial institutions taking on the brunt of the costs.

Comment by packman
2009-08-20 07:48:31

As of May they’ve got a $500 Billion line of credit from the treasury (cough cough) through 2010.

A big circle jerk:

Banks create money ->
Banks/people use that money to “invest” in stuff like houses ->
“Gains” from these investments are used to buy other investments, e.g. treasuries ->
Treasuries are used to fund bank failures (through the FDIC, TARP, etc.), when they find that they created too much money. ->
Bailed out banks create more money ->
etc.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-08-20 08:46:15

by slapping large additional special fees on banks ??

Oh great…Now their going to lower my savings interest rate from .01% to .005%…

 
 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2009-08-20 06:46:53

The people in the state of MA are true believers. There is an unexplainable dead cat bounce with some properties flying off the shelves, or so the realtors tell us.
I think that as we housing bubble sitters waited until prices stopped rising from merely ridiculous to ludicrous, the next rebound believers will also see prices keep on dropping from new lows, to even newer lows.
I am seeing houses in southeastern MA that are at about 2002 prices. Of course a lot of the run up here happened between 1997 and 2002, so these are houses built when the dot com money was flowing freely, and newly minted Java jockeys with 13 years experience (snicker) were making 120K for sitting down in the Pets.com corporate offices.
The great last hope for this state is that the one will be able to inject some vitality into the biotech industry, but alas, you need an education, and some smarts to be in that industry, so no, all of you HS dropouts that where making 140K a year selling, flipping, contracting houses need not apply. I hear that McD’s is however hiring for their drive through, and you almost have what it takes…
As I am writing this, I also wonder how many of those HS dropouts bought the biggest digs in town, to show everybody else how not having an education, and being a “risk” taker led them to success…. Right until the sheriff shows up to put their stuff on the curb.
rant off, but it is fraying at my nerves to see the dead cat bounce, and although I know that there is a reason for it, it does not bode well with the marital unit, who is getting a really bad case of nesting insticts…

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 07:20:49

I wonder if a dead cat actually bounces.. You-Tube probably holds the answer.

i wouldn’t worry about MA .. Despite it’s fine, comfortable year-round weather, endless amounts of less expensive inventory in less favorable climates will surely coax some to buy elsewhere.

 
Comment by safe_as_apartments
2009-08-20 07:22:09

Check the Warren Group. It’s the worst year for sales in a generation. Do not believe what a realtor tells you.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-20 07:30:55

There is an unexplainable dead cat banker bounce with some properties flying off the shelves, or so the realtors tell us.

;)

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 06:47:06

“Home foreclosures: The housing bubble peaked in July 2005. One half of Americans now holding mortgages will be unable to pay them in 2011. One household in every 355 homes received a foreclosure-related notice in July.” ~Floy Lilley

The above datum is from an excellent column by Floy Lilley on the prospect of one day returning the USA to a system of honest money. There is, of course, little actual demand for honesty in anything having to do with government, but the demise of the dollar has been very painful and the day may be approaching when the people, collectively, will want to do something about it.

Ms. Lilley points out that the old Constitution-mandated money standard provided relative peace and prosperity over a span of 136 years. The dollar not only retained one hundred percent of its value, it gained eleven percent! Imagine! The dollar we started with bought us eleven percent more after almost seven generations. Then, Congress picked a quiet 23rd of December in 1913 to suffocate our sound money system. After the advent of the Federal Reserve, the purchasing power of a dollar has plummeted over 95%

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:48:56

‘“Home foreclosures: The housing bubble peaked in July 2005. One half of Americans now holding mortgages will be unable to pay them in 2011. One household in every 355 homes received a foreclosure-related notice in July.” ~Floy Lilley’

Apparently our banking system runs on a sound and prosperous basis. BB should thus be reappointed.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-08-20 07:35:53

After the advent of the Federal Reserve, the purchasing power of a dollar has plummeted over 95%

Time for a joule-based economy?

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-08-20 08:00:04

For July 2008, one in 464 households received a foreclosure-related notice.

For July 2009, it was one in 355 (according to you and Lilley).

My personal prediction for July 2011 would be something like one in 200, which even if you multiply by 12 months does not get you anywhere near “half.” It is possible that half will be underwater, but that’s not the same thing as “unable to pay the mortgage,” and, as we have noted elsewhere, underwater does not always imply walkaway either.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-08-20 11:06:24

“The housing bubble peaked in July 2005. One half of Americans now holding mortgages will be unable to pay them in 2011.”

How was this arrived at? If true, we’re doomed.

I’m not so sure those 136 years were all that much better. I recall reading about a Civil War, and all kinds of uprisings over coinage issues.

That being as it is, my beef is that maybe its time for a Constitutional Convention. Our founding fathers designed a system that worked fairly well, off and on, for the last 230 years or so. But it doesn’t appear to function very well anymore.

Comment by measton
2009-08-20 14:23:27

That’s because the constitution is being ignored by our present and past governments.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:47:30

Cool coincidence: S&P 500 hits magical 1000 mark during central bank luvfest…

MarketWatch
U.S. stocks move higher after seesaw pre-opening-bell action; S&P reclaims 1,000 level

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 09:21:31

Well, if you’re going to manipulate, manufacture and float a market top for the suckers to buy into, and yourself to unload and short from; might as well make it a BIG top during banker’s luvfest.

We be stylin’, Tim-may!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 06:52:25

“The very nature of government social programs is to move away from private responsibility and toward centralized allocation of resources, redistributing them from some to others.”

~ Anthony Gregory

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 06:55:17

I see no reason whatever why it should or needs to be this way…

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-20 07:10:52

It’s because government officials are human, and human nature is to want to gain control over others, to gain wealth whether earned or not, and to justify one’s existence.

Comment by Skip
2009-08-20 07:31:07

Or it could be that humans have a maternal/paternal instinct to help others and further perpetuate the species.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-20 07:39:53

No, we’re talking about government social programs as opposed to private ones. The maternal/paternal instincts are at the forefront in the latter type, the instincts I mentioned earlier characterize the government type.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-20 07:59:57

The maternal/paternal instincts are at the forefront in the latter type, the instincts I mentioned earlier characterize the government type.

LOL. That was funny.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 09:04:33

Let’s agree that governance comes in a range of forms from good to terrible, and hold out hope that the US of A can aspire to something better than the pack. Striving for something better is really our only hope as a country, unless we decide instead to collectively slide down towards the path of Zimbabwe, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, etc.

A first useful step would be to put the Fed under the umbrella of the checks and balances which apply to other branches of the government.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-08-20 10:01:50

Clarifying my LOLz: they’re of the disbelieving kind. The idea of private entities as the exclusive domain of “maternal/paternal instincts” is fantastical.

Monsanto — will you be my daddy? I’d like to be a genetically modified Roundup Ready organism when I grow up …

 
Comment by exeter
2009-08-20 10:52:28

lmao……. pseudo-philisophical/ideological madness gone haywire.

 
 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 08:03:12

Government IS a social program.
Being naturally inclined to grow and strengthen itself, it does so by expanding it’s influence through budding or cloning.. by creating sub-programs… little government offshoots that reach further into our world.
The effects of more social programs on the public, whether positive or negative, whether more costly or money saving, are immaterial to government.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 07:52:32

Mortgage Rates Fall This Week; 30-Year Fixed At 5.12% -Freddie Mac
Dow Jones News

Mortgage rates fell this week, but the average rate on 30-year fixed-rate mortgages stayed above 5%, according to Freddie Mac’s (FRE) weekly survey of mortgage rates.

Mortgage rates had fallen earlier this year as providers try to entice buyers amid the housing market downturn, but yields on Treasurys have jumped the past month, helping push mortgage rates higher.

The 30-year fixed-rate mortgage averaged 5.12% for the week ended Thursday, down from last week’s 5.29% average and 6.47% a year ago.
Rates on 15-year fixed-rate mortgages were 4.56%, down from 4.68% last week and 6% a year earlier.

Five-year Treasury-indexed hybrid adjustable-rate mortgages averaged 4.57%, down from last week’s 4.75% and 5.99% a year earlier. One-year Treasury-indexed ARMs were 4.69%, down from 4.72% and 5.29%, respectively.

To obtain the rates, the fixed-rate mortgages required payment of an average 0.7 point, the five-year adjustable-rate required an average 0.6 point and the one-year ARM required an average 0.5 point. A point is 1% of the mortgage amount, charged as prepaid interest.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 07:56:04

No problem, giv’um mo money, deficits don’t matter.

The U.S. statutory debt is dangerously close to its limit! There’s only $373 billion left on Congress’s credit card. Treasury Secretary Geithner has warned Congress that federal borrowing may have to stop in September unless the debt ceiling is raised again. The debt is presently $11.727 trillion!! The limit is $12.1 trillion.

< Congress raised the debt ceiling TWICE IN 2008. It raised it again last February. It has raised the borrowing limit 71 times since 1940. But Americans keep sending spendthrifts to Washington only to complain when these elected politicians destroy the dollar and plunge the nation into crisis.

 
Comment by FP
2009-08-20 07:56:56

News from Yahoo:
“Mortgage Deliquencies rise”
“Jobless claims Unexpectantly rise last month”
“Cash for clunkers winding down”
etc..

But yet stock Market rises the last few days after the big drop. Goldman’s trading program must be really good.

Comment by Northeastener
2009-08-20 13:22:36

Summer months are low volume and high volatility. I fully expect September and October to be horrible in terms of stock market performance and a crash ala last Oct wouldn’t surprise me, albeit we’ll need some large entity to fail, a “black swan” if you will. This bear-market rally has been on light volume and was based purely on technicals, and now momentum. The eventual outcome is certain (down), only the timing is in question.

Retail is hurting… back-to-school is turning out to be a bust. This will probably continue through the holidays. Cash-for-clunkers is not working out so well for dealers as the government is denying many applications and is behind on processing claims… GM has just announced it will provide funds to dealers to help alleviate the cashflow strain of the whole CfC debacle. Manufacturing picking up is just companies beginning to restock inventory, not increased demand.

Credit still sucks and now the new consumer finance rules are in place, limiting CC companies ability to raise rates and charge fees. FHA is still the only game in town for mortgages. Many of the unemployed have gone through whatever savings/credit they had and are now in their last desperate months in trying to pay the mortgage. This winter will be the start of the real pain in my mind. By next spring foreclosures will be rocketing and desperation will set in with home sellers… prices will continue to head down.

“Green shoots” my a$$. Things are just starting to get interesting.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 14:21:53

Slight correction. CC companies can and already have raised interest rates and increased late fees.

The only thing the new laws seem to have done is increase “transparency” and stopped “over limit” fees and limit sales to those who are under 21. Other than that, there doesn’t seem to be any substantial relief to the consumer.

Google News.

Comment by Northeastener
2009-08-20 14:40:31

They have removed “Universal Default” and “Double-cycle billing”… both were egregious and amounted to ursury in my mind.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 15:28:47

I didn’t think those kicked until Phase 2 in 2010. (I could be wrong)

Anyone know?+

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 14:04:43

Speaking of which, did you know that the lawyer of the guy accused of stealing the program subpoenaed his client’s personnel records and GS has refused to hand them over?

 
 
Comment by rms
2009-08-20 08:01:08

The Grant County fair in Moses Lake, WA is in full swing right now, and last night I took my 9-yr old son to the demolition derby; he’s in the “car/truck phase” these days. I was surprised by the number teens/twenty-somethings using cellular telephones in text-messaging mode. They were busy checking and sending short messages about every three minutes apparently unable to sit still and enjoy the races. My thoughts drifted to the packed bleachers, and the $80/month per telephone.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 10:01:30

Which begs the questions:

1. What do they have to say that’s so important?
2. And what’s so important about the messages that they’re receiving.

As I like to say when I see someone talking on a cell phone while cruising the grocery store aisles: Someone’s making money off that call. And it’s not you.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-20 11:51:42

3. Why do they text? None of them can spell, or use proper grammar. How are they even able to communicate given the level of illiteracy? Would not talking on the phone be more effective?

Comment by In Montana
2009-08-20 13:27:33

I think they text because they all use text shorthand anyway, which disguises their ignorance of grammar, spelling and usage.

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Comment by rms
2009-08-20 18:01:25

“As I like to say when I see someone talking on a cell phone while cruising the grocery store aisles: Someone’s making money off that call. And it’s not you.”

Every young woman I saw was playing with a fancy smart phone that cost at least $400.00 if purchased separately. It’s certainly not a necessity, but an entire niche market has been created.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 11:58:02

They do it so you can’t hear their conversation. Things change, and young people more readily adapt to new circumstances. I often find that young people are an invaluable resource when I have a need that could be solved by technology.

For instance, when it comes to texting, young ppl have been incredibly innovative in creating a new form of short-hand that can be easily understood.

It’s a good idea, although not one conceived of the older generations.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 12:36:23

10-4

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-08-20 13:42:21

It depends on the phones. The number pad txt’ers have it hard.

Also, sometimes it’s $5 to $10 for unlimited text messaging, on top of a $20-30/month plan. Plus carriers often give huge breaks when you equip the whole family. I’ve got older friends on their parent’s biz plans and stuff because in bulk it’s way cheaper.

 
 
 
Comment by sfrenter
2009-08-20 08:31:44

Here’s my facebook post for today:

When the price of essentials goes down (food, oil, health care, etc.) everyone cheers. Housing goes down, everyone is in tears. Remind me again why propping up housing is a good idea? Last I checked, shelter is an essential need. Let it keep crashing…

Let’s see how many interesting responses I get. I think it boils down to who rents and who owns. HBB is the only place where I have encountered home owners who want prices to go down.

Here’s the first response - from an ex who bought in Emeryville, near Berkeley, close to the top of the bubble:

“Maybe because food, oil and health care are consumables / commodities, whereas housing, while serving as shelter, is an asset for home owners. And if that asset becomes a liability, then people lose their shelter. One could argue that advocating for the housing market to continue to crash is synonomous with advocating for struggling home owners to continue to foreclose and for people and families to be uprooted (home owners and renters alike). Maybe that’s why?”

Trying to be nice but still a little snarky, huh?

Here’s my response:

” The housing bubble was the largest financial mania in economic history and now owning a home is no longer about shelter but about investing and making money. If health care shouldn’t be driven by profit and greed, then why should housing?

It’s hard to make a case for buying a house that costs 5-10 times one’s yearly salary. Mortgages that size have created a system not of home ownership but of debt slavery to banks, who are the ultimate landlords. Bush’s “ownership society” was never intended to help out the average person.

A house should be a place to live - it’s not really an asset until it’s paid off or sold.

Still wish I had a buck for everyone that told me “housing never goes down” and “it’s different here”. Many people predicted this collapse years ago, and this thing isn’t even half over.

Foreclosures everywhere and yet there are MILLIONS of empty houses which will eventually be bulldozed. What a waste of resources.”

So let the facebook housing bubble wars begin. I guess I’ll see what my “friends” really think…..

Comment by tresho
2009-08-20 10:03:50

A house should be a place to live - it’s not really an asset until it’s paid off or sold. Not exactly. My house has been paid off for years, yet I still keep pouring money into it. It won’t be a real asset unless & until I sell it.

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-08-20 10:39:12

It’s an asset in the sense that (if paid off) you are saving the money you would have otherwise paid in rent, less taxes and maintenance.

If you ignore future cap gains (or loss) and the above equation is cashflow positive, then it is a (performing) asset.

In most cases, admittedly, you could get a better cashflow by selling, investing the proceeds at zero risk, and renting the same house at market rent.

So although the house could be an “asset”, it’s hardly ever the best asset for its present value, which is what most people just don’t understand. The ONLY way it becomes the best is with double-digit annual appreciation, which will likely never happen again in our lifetimes. But is that stopping people from overbidding in the Bay Area? Not a chance!

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 10:36:26

“A house should be a place to live - it’s not really an asset until it’s paid off or sold.”

Not true - You’ve forgotten about all the assessments (from city, county, state, fed) that can be added onto your paid off house.

Comment by Skip
2009-08-20 12:40:06

And its only your house as long as a rich person doesn’t come along and covet your asset.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-08-20 10:54:27

I’ve resisted posting something to this effect on my page. There are a few who would cheer me on, but most of my “friends” are standard operating procedure: have a house and 2-3 kids.

Please keep posting the responses you get!

Comment by sfrenter
2009-08-20 15:09:01

I will but facebook is filtered at work. So, later tonight.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 08:31:58

More good news, brown squirts…

Mortgage Delinquencies Rise to Record as U.S. Home Prices Fall

Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) — Americans fell behind on their mortgage payments at a record pace in the second quarter as job losses and falling real estate prices thwarted government efforts to stabilize the housing market.

The share of loans with one or more payments overdue rose to a seasonally adjusted 9.24 percent of all mortgages, an all- time high, from 9.12 percent in the first quarter, the Mortgage Bankers Association said in a report today. The inventory of homes in foreclosure increased to 4.3 percent, the most in three decades of data, and loans overdue by at least 90 days, the point at which foreclosure proceedings typically begin, rose to 7.97 percent, the highest on record.

“We’ve seen a significant drop in the problem with subprime loans and we’ve moved now to a problem with prime fixed-rate loans,” Jay Brinkmann, the Washington-based trade group’s chief economist, said in an interview. “Job losses are driving it, and we expect that to continue into next year.”

Homeowners fall behind on their mortgage payments when they lose their jobs, and falling prices mean they can’t sell and pay off their loans, Brinkmann said. Companies have shed 5.7 million jobs since January 2008, the biggest employment loss since the Great Depression. The median U.S. home price fell 16 percent in the second quarter from a year earlier, the steepest drop on record, according to the National Association of Realtors.

The percentage of loans on which foreclosure actions were started was 1.36 percent, down from 1.37 percent in the first quarter, driven by the decline in subprime loans. New foreclosures on prime loans increased to 1.01 percent from 0.94 percent, while subprime loans dropped to 4.13 percent from 4.65 percent, Brinkmann said.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-08-20 11:17:52

Good thing the financial crisis is over! It really doesn’t matter anymore how many people default on their loans, right? RIGHT !?!
Unemployment (unexpectedly) up, loan defaults up and the market loves it.
Seriously, what’s going on?
Too many drinking too much cool aid?
Bailout money & lose fiscal policies causing a stock market bubble?
Buy now or be priced out forever?
Pump and dump scheme by GS & Co?
All of the above?

Someting got completely out of balance here. I have the feeling this roller coaster is approaching another vicious drop.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:59:07

“Seriously, what’s going on?”

Serious punch bowl respiking operations are going on, including an effort to reflate the real estate bubble.

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-20 14:55:44

IF GS is going to steal my money they are going to have to do it the old fashion way with inflaiton. Of course they’ll have to deal with the riots that come with it.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 09:09:52

Colo. could be 1st state to lower minimum wage. Associated Press

DENVER — Colorado’s lowest-paid workers could make even less money next year. That’s because the state has an adjustable minimum wage that may become the first in the nation to drop slightly along with the cost of living.

Colorado is one of 10 states where the minimum wage is tied to inflation. The indexing is thought to protect low-wage workers from having flat wages as the cost of living goes up.

But because Colorado’s provision allows wage declines, the minimum wage could actually drop 3 cents an hour next year. If the wage is reduced by state labor officials in September as expected, it would be the first minimum wage decrease in any state since the federal minimum wage law was passed in 1938.

It’s a small drop, but the prospect has Colorado’s minimum-wage workers fearing times are about to get worse.

“I’m just scratching by now,” said Denver’s Raul Ramirez, 42, who works two minimum-wage jobs, selling ice cream from a cart in the summer and shoveling snow in the winter.

Ramirez said he takes home about $900 a month and can’t imagine how he could get by on less.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 09:26:17

I can imagine how he could MAKE less…

Just try selling ice cream from a cart on the winter and shovelling snow in the summer…

Comment by exeter
2009-08-20 10:53:38

Jeez… sounds like a wage slave owners dreamdate.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-08-20 10:56:58

Interesting that it adjusted downward, but presumably can’t adjust below the federal min of 7.25 right?

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 09:13:48

Everglades on the Bay enters bankruptcy.
South Florida Business Journal

One of the highest-profile condominium projects in downtown Miami, the 849-unit Everglades on the Bay, has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

The bankruptcy petition, filed by Cabi Downtown LLC Developers, listed $100 million to $500 million in liabilities and 200 to 999 creditors.

The original $256 million construction loan on the twin-tower project was made by Bank of America. The mortgage had a November 2008 maturity date that was extended a couple of months to Feb. 18.

An April 3 South Florida Business Journal article said the project was swamped with issues, such as contractor liens and reluctant buyers.

Gryphon Construction LLC of Fort Lauderdale was listed as having the largest unsecured claim, at $912,272, which was termed disputed. It was followed by Miami-based law firm Siegfried, River, Lerner De La Torre & Sobel, at $395,456, and Holly Sime Realty of Miami, at $193,750. The Holly Sime claim was also termed disputed.

Bank of America was listed as a creditor without showing the amount owed to it. Many individual creditors were also listed. The petition was filed Tuesday as a single asset real estate bankruptcy, which typically means the bank holding the primary mortgage on the property can have the bankruptcy dismissed in 90 days if a suitable reorganization plan is not approved.

The project, at 244 Biscayne Blvd., on the site of the former Everglades Hotel, sits among a handful of other high-profile condo projects on downtown Miami’s main thoroughfare. The city is suffering from a glut of units from a now-crashed building boom.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 10:54:28

No! According to this, they’re ’snapping them up’ in Miami. If the price is around $200 per square foot, they run out of sodas in the sales office! (someone really needs to create a :barf: emoticon)

http://cbs4.com/local/miami.condos.condo.2.1133338.html

 
 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 09:17:54

Here’s a SF Bay area update :

So I got the appraisal back on the house we’re buying, and we did a pretty decent job, I guess, because it came back higher than the purchase price, and the appraiser told me he was going to beat it down as hard as he could because banks don’t like high appraisals either. (That made no sense to me whatsoever.)

Anyway, the interesting thing we found is that San Mateo county is marked as a declining market now. Not just pockets, the whole county. The appraiser included some sort of wishy-washy hooey about how the area we bought into is holding even, or possibly even appreciating a tiny bit in SUPER special areas, but that’s bunk. Our lowball being accepted is proof positive that our “it’s different” area is a declining market.

The take home message? Don’t buy yet. (Do as I say, not as I do!)

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 10:08:34

What % of the original asking price was your actual price?

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 10:38:05

A little under 70% (As in 30% off original asking.)

Comment by sf mikey
2009-08-20 17:57:04

Good to hear that prices is going down in the peninsula. Unfortunately in my SF Ingleside neighborhood nicer houses are still selling rather briskly around peak prices. There are some that have languished on the market for many months but they seem to be extremely overpriced and/or not in good shape. In SF proper it still isn’t loosening up much yet. I believe that it eventually will but it’s discouraging that it’s taking so long.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 22:25:23

It’ll take time. I watched East Palo and East Menlo crater without much stirring in the peninsula areas I was interested in, then the cracks and slide started.

Still, San Mateo has a ways to go. We jumped in because we felt we had found an opportunity to make the seller catch a part of the knife, and it had a massive lot for the location.

We still expect to see the pricing drop below what we paid for it.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-20 12:14:43

Go compkillers!!

:::clapping hands:::

 
Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 14:34:12

San Mateo prices are bunk and declining.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 15:08:31

Indeed they are.

 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-20 17:43:22

The interesting thing we found is that San Mateo county is marked as a declining market now. Not just pockets, the whole county.

Hey, do you have a source for this? I Googled and didn’t find much. Got family in Portola Valley. Just emailed him 4 or 5 foreclosures in his neighborhood. Would love to follow up with “decllining market” info.

It’s a wonder my family even speaks to me sometimes. Must scare the hell out of them when I send over information on the NOD or NOS filed on the house right next door. The look out the window at don’t see any activity at the subject property (notice on the door or real estate sign). Then they say to me “oh, I don’t see anything”. Meaning “Robert, your full of your BS doom and gloom as usual”. “La la la…we can’t hear you”. Oh well.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 22:22:41

My source is the appraisal done on the house. It clearly states on it that San Mateo county is marked as a declining market.

Here is the actual text, slightly edited :

Although the overall San Mateo County is considered a declining market, each zip code and each neighborhood has
its own market appeal for specific reasons such as proximity to employment, view, schools or crime rate.
The Real Estate market in [our ritzy oh so special neighborhood] is considered stable or in some areas an increasing market
depending on the price range and condition of the properties.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-20 22:44:50

Excellent! Thanks for the reply.

Congrats on the 30% haircut and the appraisal that supports it.

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Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 22:30:43

I posted a reply to this that looks like it’s getting screened. Check back tomorrow if you don’t see the info tonight.

 
 
 
Comment by tresho
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 10:02:55

Let’s see how long he lasts outside of prison.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:41:49

I just don’t get the logic. If you give somebody a 20 year sentence, and he becomes terminally ill in year 15, I can conceive of letting him out to say goodbye to to his family etc. But when they gave him a sentance of life in prison, isn’t he SUPPOSED to get sick and die in prison?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 21:35:06

Probably cheaper to kick him out (’free’ him) during his last year of sickness/life. Let him serve his final year in a Libyan hospital.

 
 
 
Comment by dude
2009-08-20 09:49:22

LA Times Data Quick numbers are out for July:

http://dqnews.com/Charts/Monthly-Charts/LA-Times-Charts/ZIPLAT.aspx

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:13:47

Area / Zip Code / Number of Sales / Median Sale Price / YOY Change

Rancho Bernardo 92127 36 $740,000 -2.1%

Still priced out, even with the news that one out of eight members of the Ownership Society with a mortgage currently enjoys payment-free housing…

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 09:49:40

Rep. Mike Ross (D-Ark.) said on Wednesday that providing healthcare to uninsured Americans is “not what this healthcare reform debate is about.”

In making his comments, Ross, who is the centrist Blue Dogs’ health reform point man, questioned one of the primary healthcare goals of the White House and Democratic leaders.

“That is a side benefit to healthcare reform and an important one,” Ross told the Arkansas Educational Television Network. Instead, the fifth-term congressman said the bill should focus on “cost containment.”

The Energy and Commerce Committee member reiterated that he wants to pass a health reform bill by the end of this year, a desire that may irk some Republicans who supported his effort to slow the bill before August recess.

“The extreme right had a two-week love affair with me,” Ross said. “The extreme right, simply, they do not want healthcare reform. And so, they saw me as killing healthcare reform because I put the brakes on
healthcare reform.”

The influential fifth-term Democrat identified several provisions that would prevent him from voting for the bill.

On the public option, Ross said he would not vote for a plan that would “force government-run healthcare on anyone. Period.” But he also said that the House bill contained a public plan that is “strictly…an option.”

Providing government subsides for abortions, coverage for illegal immigrants, rationing of care, and deficit increases comprised Ross’ deal-breakers.

“I’ve got the extreme right and the extreme left angry with me so I must be doing something right,” he said.

Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 10:39:50

“I’ve got the extreme right and the extreme left angry with me so I must be doing something right,” he said.

This is pretty close to true.

 
 
Comment by sfrenter
2009-08-20 09:53:40

I read HBB every night but since I live in CA I never post because by the time I am reading most everyone is already asleep and dreaming about the next day’s post.

Anyway, loved NYCboy’s post about growing up in the 70’s - can totally relate (we must be the same age) and also the posts about consumption and wanted to recommend a great book:

Not Buying It (A Year Without Shopping) by Judith Levine

Highly recommend it!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 10:04:01

Not Buying It (A Year Without Shopping)

Uh-oh. Another sign that the payment makers are going on strike.

Comment by sfrenter
2009-08-20 15:11:01

She published the book in 2006.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 10:39:50

Of course you should check the book out from your local library or see if someone will swap it with instead of buying ;)

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 11:50:09

swap it with should be swap it with you.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-08-20 11:54:15

check the book out from your local library

Just like, when Abbie Hoffman wrote “Steal this Book!”, some people took the title literally…

 
Comment by Kim
2009-08-20 12:23:07

Just reserved it at my library! Thanks for the lead…

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 13:30:35

I’m going to reserve after I return from my holiday at an Undisclosed Location.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 14:34:22

You can tell us. I’m sure none of us will tell ;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 17:07:24

You can tell us. I’m sure none of us will tell ;)

Heavens, no!
*assumes trustworthy and honest face that I specially practice for just such times as this… *

:lol:

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 09:56:29

Naturally the serial bottom caller brigade is predicting the high water mark will come this fall, but is this whatsoever reasonable, given that the tsunami crest of Alt-A and prime ARM resets is anticipated to continue for several more years going forward, and that new weekly claims for unemployment keep turning out “higher than expected”?

9% of all home loans are delinquent

Mortgage lenders say the flood of foreclosures has not yet crested. Highwater mark should come this fall.

By Les Christie, CNNMoney dot com staff writer
Last Updated: August 20, 2009: 12:14 PM ET

Is Obama’s foreclosure rescue plan working?

NEW YORK (CNNMoney dot com) — The number of Americans who have fallen at least 30 days behind on their home loan payments inched up slightly between the first and second quarters of 2009, but jumped 44% compared on an annual basis, according to an industry report.

That puts delinquencies at a record 9.24% of mortgages, according to the National Delinquency Report from the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA). That represents more than 4 million of the 45 million borrowers covered by the report.

What the rate does not include, however, are loans already in foreclosure. Some 4.3% of all the mortgages are in that stage, up from 3.85% three months earlier and 1.55 percentage points from one year ago.

The combined percentage of loans past due and those already in foreclosure hit 13.16% during the quarter, the highest ever recorded by the MBA survey. OMG! This does not look like a green shoot.

“There was a major drop in foreclosures on subprime ARM loans,” said Jay Brinkmann, chief economist for the MBA, in a prepared statement. “The drop, however, was offset by increases in the foreclosure rates on the other types of loans, with prime fixed-rate loans having the biggest increase.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 09:58:18

“…prime fixed-rate loans having the biggest increase.”

The prime- and Alt-A ARM resets have not yet even entered the myopic view of the MSM.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 10:05:01

They’re not paying much attention to the pay option ARMs either.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:30:56

“The prime- and Alt-A ARM …”

I didn’t mean to exclude those when I said ‘ARM’…

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 11:02:24

To ARMs! The enemy is upon us!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:22:26

Suggested book title:

“A Farewell to ARMs”

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-20 13:14:17

When survival is at stake, a critter will chew off its ARM to escape and live another day.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:36:48

Pressboard–now THAT’S a ruthless default.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:10:06

“The combined percentage of loans past due and those already in foreclosure hit 13.16% during the quarter, the highest ever recorded by the MBA survey.”

100/13.16 = 7.6 — more than one out of eight Ownership Society members with a mortgage is living payment-free while renters sweat to make their monthly payments. Nice deal!!!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:59:39

The Financial Times
Mounting joblessness fuels US housing crisis
By Saskia Scholtes in New York
Published: August 20 2009 17:59 | Last updated: August 20 2009 17:59

More than one in every eight homeowners with a mortgage was behind on home loan payments or in some stage of foreclosure at the end of the second quarter, as mounting unemployment aggravated the housing crisis, the Mortgage Bankers Association said on Thursday.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 16:29:05

Let’s guesstimate that there are 40,000,000 mortgages in the US (I am rounding my guess to the nearest 10,000,000; if you have it, use the correct figure in your own calculation). Based on this conservative guesstimate, there are 13.16 * 40,000,000 / 100 = 5.3 million loanowners currently not making payments (including those “already in foreclosure”).

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 17:27:39

“That represents more than 4 million of the 45 million borrowers covered by the report.”

Sorry — I missed that detail; hence my calculation was too conservative. Trying again:

13.16 * 45,000,000 / 100 = 5.9 million loanowners currently not making payments (including those “already in foreclosure”).

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 17:32:40

What share of these homes do you think are located in the major US cities? Let’s just guess that 60 percent (60 pct of 6 million is about 3,600,000) are located in the top 20 MSAs. That implies there are, on average, 3,600,000 / 20 = 180,000 homes in nonpayment status per each of the top 20 MSAs in the USA.

I know this number is squishy. But based on this guesstimate, the true number has to be pretty ginormous, especially compared to the depleted inventories of homes for sale (e.g., the San Diego MLS reports less than 10,000 homes on the market at the moment).

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 19:14:29

I found some 2008 population data here.

Summing the 2008 populations of the top 20 MSAs gives a figure of 114,878,657. Estimating 300,000,000 US citizens suggests that “only” slightly more than 1/3 live in the top twenty MSAs. So perhaps my estimate above was wrong, and (more conservatively) there are merely something on the order of (1/3)*5,900,000/20 = about 100,000 or so homes in delinquency or foreclosure per each of the top twenty US MSAs.

Caveat: My estimate is way too conservative, given that lots of these MSAs (i.e. Greater Los Angeles, Gold Coast, Valley of the Sun, SF Bay Area, Inland Empire, San Diego County and Tampa Bay) are in coastal bubble zones formerly referred to as “a bit frothy,” where the mortgage delinquency and foreclosure rates are perpetually “higher than expected.”

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 10:01:54

How can you trust leading indicators when the economy is on life support? It is like predicting a brain-dead patient will wake up any day and start reciting lines from Shakespeare.

Execs: Recession has hit bottom
Economic indicators index jump 0.6% in July according to the Conference Board, in the latest sign of possible recovery.

By Julianne Pepitone, CNNMoney dot com staff wrier
August 20, 2009: 12:09 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney dot com) — An index of economic indicators rose in July for a fourth straight month, in another sign that the recession is bottoming, said a report released Thursday.

The Leading Economic Index rose 0.6% in July, after a 0.8% increase the previous month, according to a report from the Conference Board, which has a membership of executives from around the world. The measure is based on 10 components including interest rate spread, unemployment claims and building permits.

“The indicators suggest that the recession is bottoming out, and that economic activity will likely begin recovering soon,” said Ken Goldstein, economist at The Conference Board, in a prepared statement.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-08-20 10:27:04

If I were to reverse this on “them” and use their logic (and I will), I’d say that a .6% increase instead of .8% increase indicates that we’ve hit the PEAK and economic indicators will most likely continue to fall…

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 10:12:01

Another C4C… Cash 4 Corpses

Demand rises for publicly funded burials. USA TODAY
The rough economy is inflicting hardship on people even in death.

Coroners and funeral directors in several cities say the number of people seeking government-paid funerals, cremations and burials is spiking. Most counties and states will use public money to cremate or bury people who are too poor to pay for private services.

“People just aren’t in a position to pay $7,000 for a private funeral and burial,” says Lt. David Smith of the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office, where the number of people seeking county burial has nearly doubled since last year.

The percentage of people in poverty in the USA is climbing, says Gregory Acs, a senior fellow at The Urban Institute. When the recession started at the end of 2007, about 12.5% of the U.S. population was considered impoverished, up from 11.7% in 2001, he says.

Among the counties noting a surge in requests for indigent burials:

• The Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office handled 205 indigent deaths in the last six months of 2007. This year, from Jan. 1 to June 30, the office handled 404 indigent deaths — a 97% increase. “It has put a major financial strain on this department,” Smith says. “I need to come up with $12,000 a month in a budget that’s locked up tight as a drum.”

Then in February, the county crematory notified the coroner it was overflowing with natural death cases and couldn’t handle cases from the coroner, who handles accidental deaths, homicides and unidentified people, Smith says. “My body count in my crypt swelled to near capacity,” Smith says, as he sought a crematory to handle the excess corpses.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-08-20 10:27:56

“People just aren’t in a position to pay $7,000 for a private funeral and burial,” says Lt. David Smith of the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office, where the number of people seeking county burial has nearly doubled since last year.

When you’re dead, you’re not in a position to pay for anything.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-08-20 10:46:26

nothing but cheap real estate.. lots of corpses that need to be buried.. An industry standard $7,000 minimum to peacefully rest some soul in a 10′ X 10′ plot..

Lets see..
Need a couple buildings (empty McMansions will do) and a couple acres..

one acre = 43560 sq’
435 plots @ $5,000 each means taking in about $2.2 million per acre.. while undercuting the ghoulish competition by about 30%.

Am i the only one who senses a business opportunity here?

Comment by polly
2009-08-20 17:14:25

A 10 by 10 plot is 100 square feet, not 10 square feet.

Comment by polly
2009-08-20 17:19:50

Pardon me. You used 100 square feet. However, you have take out a lot of space for roads, walk ways etc. Oh, and you have to pay for perpetual landscaping. And caskets are easily hundreds or even thousands of dollars, so you will have to subtract that from the $5000. And you need employees and digging equipment. And permits. And a place to hold the memorial service.

And you have to get the land specially zoned for a cemetary including proving that you won’t mess up the roads by having extra traffic from all the funerals and have sufficient parking.

Not saying that there isn’t an opportunity to be a low cost funeral service. Just saying it isn’t as easy as buying some land and planting people in the ground.

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Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-08-20 11:24:14

I saw several billboards advertising caskets for $395 & up. Just burry grandma in the privacy of your own backyard. That way you might be able to keep those sweet social security checks coming.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 12:39:36

Just order a new fridge from Costco for home delivery, using Grandma’s last check.

Keep the new fridge in the garage for extra beer storage program. (As Ben Franklin once said, beer is proof that God loves us.)

Now, since new fridges always come in a sturdy carton, no need to spend $395 on a casket.

Presto bingo; all is well, all is well.

 
 
Comment by Rally
2009-08-20 14:17:30

And just a few short years ago, all those corpses qualified for zero down mortgages.

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-20 10:59:24

Credit market and equity begins to diverge again (of course the same thing happened in Fall of 2007 before the market imploded so make your bets accordingly):

- GS CDS spread widens to mid-140’s from low 90’s (50% rise in perceived default risk) while stock price held steady, same for other banks.

- CDX12 & CMBX spreads widened considerably over the last several weeks while equities rose or held steady.

- 10 years Treasury declined 25bps while SP500 continue to rise since late July.

When in doubt, always believe the credit market over the equity market.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:57:50

Buy stocks now or get priced out forever!

(Ain’t it hilarious how the same idiots who could not see a recession until it had been in progress already for almost a year are now champing at the bit to declare a bottom is in?)

MarketWatch
Indicators calling a bottom

As index of U.S. leading economic indicators manages a modest rise, the Conference Board says the recession’s bottom is in.

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-08-20 11:07:56

Now a conversation with economist David Rosenberg (for those of you who don’t know him, he was very early in calling a severe recession back in the fall of 2007) on inflation vs. deflation (sorry for the long post but it is worth reading):

“As for the inflation-phobes, gold demand hit a six-year low in 2Q, according to the World Gold Council (-8.6% YoY). What is most interesting is that since late July, the S&P 500 has managed to tack on 20 points even as the 10-year Treasury yield has declined roughly 25bps — both markets cannot possibly be right when it comes to depicting the macroeconomic outlook. Our money is with Mr. Bond. After all, we seem to recall that between mid-June 2007 and early October of that year, the 10-year note yield fell 60bps even as the S&P 500 jumped 70 points as it made a last-gasp move to a new high. And, we know who got that story right.

As we saw yesterday, the market responded to reports that another fiscal package was about to be unveiled — even though the last package has yet to fully percolate. This sounds more like desperation than anything else, but there is no question that greed is once again testing the long-term resolve of the marginal investor. Politics is emotional. Like religion, sports, family, house prices, it is emotionally charged and therefore gets a lot more press and the general public forms a strong opinion. After all, the government is doing things that fewer people are favouring, based on the polls, because it is spending other people’s money — that is what fiscal largesse boils down to. Spending our tax dollars. That’s why everyone is so crystal clear about the inflationary impact of an increase in the government balance sheet. Deflationary forces are tougher for the masses to understand.

We have said often that just as society couldn’t spell ‘inflation’ in 1937, it has no clue what causes deflation now. That’s beginning to change in the aftermath of the housing and credit collapse, but try to explain the deflationary forces contained in debt liquidation or global manufacturing over capacity or a socio-economic trend towards savings, and the notion of ‘deflation’ gets fuzzy for most thinkers (even Warren Buffet). That doesn’t change the fact that the deflationary forces are enormous (and current) and the policy-induced reflationary forces are a partial antidote.

To be sure, if the government fails to mop it up once the private sector debt liquidation ends, it does mean that an inflationary mistake lurks down the road. But as we have seen in other post-bubble credit collapse episodes, the initial period of deflation can last for years, during which the fundamental trend in bond yields will likely remain in one direction and that is down, to the surprise and dismay of the litany of bond bears that currently populate the capital market. The fact that a year ago, when the inflation rate was over 5% but core inflation was less than half that pace, the market mantra was that we should be focused on headline only — that the core would follow the headline. There was a plethora of Street research published on the topic; we recall that all too well. Today, the year-over-year headline price trend is running at a 60-year low of -2.0%, and now we are being told by the economics community to focus on “core” (which, by the way, has slowed to 1½%) because this is all an “energy story”.

So you see, most strategists and economists and market pundits claim that they are concerned about inflation, but in reality, everyone seems to want to see it. As long as we have a lack of pricing pressure, we will see bond yields trend lower, and as long as that happens, there will be a continued lack of confirmation over the growth rate in the economy that is embedded in equity market valuation. Energy prices may, for a short time, give a kick to the headline CPI numbers but rents are almost four times more important and comprise 30% of the index (and 40% of the core). To repeat — three variables: rents, wages and credit — will ultimately determine the trend in inflation. Down, in other words. If you are not yet convinced of that in the consumer arena deflation remains the primary intermediate-term risk, then go the article on page B8 of the WSJ and see if that changes your mind — discount coupon redemptions are up nearly 20% this year (Club Stores Accepting Coupons: Sam’s Club Joins BJ’s, Costco in Issuing Discount Chits to Members).

We should probably add here that even though the moves by the Fed have provided ample liquidity, they have not stopped the underlying fundamentals from deteriorating — see Corporate Bond Defaults Hit Record on page 19 of the FT. (S&P just reported that 201 companies with $453 billion of debt have defaulted this year, exceeding the entire tally of 126 defaults covering $433bln in ALL of 2008). The 12-month speculative-grade corporate default rate has risen to 8.58%, as of July, from 8.25% in June (the rating agency is forecasting that the default rate will rise to 14.3% by the first quarter of 2010, taking out the prior record of 12.54% set in July 1991).

By the way, we are sure that for a market grasping on to any good news it can get, there is bound to be a buzz over the article on page 11 of the FT — U.S. Office Prices Raise Hopes. But turn to the Lex column on page 10 of the FT and you will see that there is less to the story than meets the eye (commercial real estate values are down 36% from the peak, which makes this downturn even worse than what we saw in the residential market!).

From our lens, there is always a catalyst or a spark for the next economic expansion and bull market. In 2003, it was leverage and a housing boom. What is it today? Cash for clunkers? Digitized medical technology? Chinese consumption? Government incursion into the economy and capital market? Perhaps we should also recognize that heading into the post-recession environment of 1991, there was a tailwind from sub $20/bbl oil; and heading into the 2003 rebound, we had sub $30/bbl oil; so it may pay to ask the question as to how $70+ oil is going to play in the recovery, unless we are talking about recoveries in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE?”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 11:54:47

“To be sure, if the government fails to mop it up once the private sector debt liquidation ends, it does mean that an inflationary mistake lurks down the road.”

Only a fool would fail to notice the huge current incentives for the Fed to deliberately create inflation while pretending it was a mistake.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 12:31:39

“After all, the government is doing things that fewer people are favouring, based on the polls, because it is spending other people’s money — that is what fiscal largesse boils down to. Spending our tax dollars.”

Not quite, the government is now spending hoped for future tax dollars, the tax dollars of our children and grandchildren, not just “ours”. It can be said that the current administration is tying hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt around the necks and on the backs of workers generations yet unborn. It can also be said that the current generation which is in power, implementing and allowing it to happen, must therefore be even greedier and more self absorbed than the Baby Boomers that came before them.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 12:36:11

“It can be said that the current administration is tying hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt around the necks and on the backs of workers generations yet unborn.”

So long as the managers at Megabank, Inc keep getting their bonus payments, it’s all good!

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 14:26:33

Gen X ain’t in power yet, daddy-o. Obama was born in 1961. He’s a boomer! A damn, dirty boomer! Us slackers are still slackin’!

Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 14:39:31

Dude, I totally don’t agree with the little official definition of “Baby Boomer”. Baby Boomers started getting born in 1945. IMO, 2 ppl more than 10 years apart are not of the same generation. The cut-off should be 1955.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 15:12:50

I think the first half of any generation sets the ’standard’ by which that generation is known. The second half kind of follows along and is often a bit different. Don’t some call the second half of the boomers, ‘generation jones’? I don’t know why.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 15:17:51

Looked it up and it still makes no sense. It refers either to anonymity (?) or to the fact that they were brought up with ‘great expectations’ only to come of age in the 70’s and are therefore ‘jonesing’.(?)

Obama’s a generation jones.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-08-20 15:54:12

The price of oil goes up and the economy comes crashing down. It will be cycling like that for years. The PTB wants higher oil for lots of reasons, but the consumer can’t afford it. I like his statement that rents, wages and credit will ultimately determine the trend of inflation. I couldn’t agree more.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 11:53:49

Sounds like the Devil may want to stock up his bar, (heavy on the Scotch, Beelzebub). Could be this d-bag is heading for a dirt nap soon.

Ailing Sen. Kennedy Urges Seat Be Filled Quickly…

BOSTON - A cancer-stricken Sen. Edward M. Kennedy has written a poignant letter to Massachusetts leaders asking that they change state law to allow a speedy replacement of him in Congress.

The note has been sent to Gov. Deval Patrick and the state’s Senate president and House speaker while Congress considers an overhaul of the nation’s health care system, a life cause of Kennedy’s.

The letter acknowledges the state changed its succession law in 2004 to require a special election within five months to fill any vacancy. At the time, legislative Democrats — with a wide majority in both chambers — were concerned because then-Republican Gov. Mitt Romney had the power to directly fill any vacancy created as Democratic Sen. John Kerry ran for president.

But Kennedy writes “it is vital for this commonwealth to have two voices speaking for the needs of its citizens and two votes in the Senate during the approximately five months between a vacancy and an election.”

Comment by Big V
2009-08-20 12:05:02

Doesn’t surprise me one bit. This is a guy who would rather watch his girlfriend drown then get his hair wet, and he got away with it too. The dude is an egomaniac and a half.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 12:18:56

Also, you have to be really impressed with the way he helped his nephew William Smith impress women at the AuBar in Palm Beach a while back.

It’s great to have uncles in high places when you make the lady say “uncle”.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-08-20 12:44:08

Mary Jo Kopechene didn’t get a bailout. AIG did.

 
Comment by sfbubblebuyer
2009-08-20 12:47:15

Have you seen his hair? It’s gotta take at least a hour and a half to get it right each day.

Comment by In Montana
2009-08-20 13:51:51

I’ve been having weird dreams lately since my sleep schedule is all messed up. The other night I dreamed I was in a nursing home, in a wheelchair, and there was Ted Kennedy, also in a wheelchair. So I’m thinking, haha you’re in a nursing home. Then I realized oh wait, I am too. Then I woke up. It was stupid because he’ll never be in a nursing home.

There’s a message in there somewhere!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 14:30:23

Hmmm. I like your dream.
Obviously you are all deep and stuff, having dreams with hidden meanings and ironies and so forth. I usually just dream I’m a fish or something, and that’s it. A fish, doing fish stuff.
Sigh.

* Curse you, shallow, simple Oly-brains! Let’s get something deep going on in here for once! *

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 12:25:48

Ben, you asked me a couple weeks ago if I remembered the North-South Austin tug-of-war over Town Lake. I didn’t at first, but then did. I wasn’t ever there, but I remember hearing about it in the news now. That era - end of 80s & beginning of 90s - were indeed a wonderful time in Austin (except for those bankrupted or underwater in houses from boom period). Those were our first years in Austin.

Nineties were prime for infestors in central Austin neighborhoods. Mid-to-late nineties was when 78704 was “branded” (bumper sticker: “78704 Not just a zipcode A way of life!”) and the groundwork was laid for the promotion of obscene hip urban luxury condos and McMansions of the last 10 years.

Later, I’m going to try to grab a chance to add a post about surviving and lost bits of Austin life. But first I’ll do an update on the dominoes currently falling in the RE market here - which will be reruns for flashbacks for a lot of you.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 13:13:18

SCHADENFREUDE ALERT!

Today’s Austin American Statesman has an article titled “Residential Strategies Closing Austin Office.”
“After five years and five days on the job, Mark Sprague will go to work for the last time Friday as the Austin partner for Residential Strategies Inc., a housing industry consulting and forecasting firm.” Mark Sprague, consultant and forecaster for developers, for whom his services have become “a luxury.” We non-developers know him as the go-to media guy for REI boosterism quotes, the Texan Sean Snaith as it were (but no tenure).

austintowers.net, the downtown condo boosting site has as it’s most recent story: “BartonPlace July Construction Update.” “After a week of problems in the Austin development scene it was great to hear from BartonPlace where construction continues as normal. They even sent pictures to prove it!” (BartonPlace is the project that displaced the cozy RV park and pecan orchard on Barton Springs Rd.) What an exciting story! No problems here! Y’all HBBers have already guessed the rumors, of course…

Previous story was “Bel Air Auction: More Bad News [for condo p1mps - ed. note]” Out of the 25 units auctioned, all but 2 bids were rejected by the seller. These “hip urban lofts” are located on Congress Ave - south of Ben White Blvd (that is, outside even the loosest definition of central Austin).

An earlier story was about the auction of 23 units at The Sage. The Sage consists of two buildings of “lofts and townhomes” on top of garages that face each other across a narrow parking lot (just allows a fire truck to pull in and back out) nestled among the auto-related businesses of South Lamar well away from downtown.
(to be continued)

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 15:16:58

Another fine example of not only drinking the kool aid but mistaking the map for the terrain.

I mean seriously. How many wealthy 20-30yos poser hipsters did these people think existed?

I have the same problem in my neighborhood. New apts. that look like condos and priced like it too. 2 bdrm apts. priced like a small 3 bdrm house. Hello?! Current events anyone?

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 17:37:17

How many wealthy 20-30yos poser hipsters did these people think existed?

Apparently, masses of them. The total audience at the 3-day Austin City Limits festival added to the total number of performances attended during the week-long South by Southwest festival?

A boutique hotel room for every performer that comes to Austin from out of town - one for George Strait, one for Emily Lou Harris, one for each member of the Bong Blasting Boys and the P*eckerwood Gang … etc.

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-21 16:21:33

I just saw a map with the Bel Air condos - they are on Congress halfway between Ben White Blvd. and STASSNEY! Stassney is almost as far south of Ben White as Ben White is from Town Lake.

Those must have been made for out-of-town, sight-unseen investors.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 13:16:48

Electronic sales have to have had a pop up this month. Went for a 30 minute walk in our college town yesterday. Saw numerous flat panel TV boxes curb side from 42″ to 52″. Tons of computer boxes as would be expected. This has to be the same nation wide.

I was informed years ago by a ‘reformed’ burglar that you should never put empty boxes that had contained valuable items on the street, in front of your house. Makes their job a whole lot easier, knowing what’s inside.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 15:25:18

Naw, might have just been a local sale.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 13:25:32

Please forgive my ongoing confusion, but don’t higher home prices imply less, not more, affordability?

Why are less affordable homes “beneficial”? I thought the gubmint was supposed to be striving to make home ownership affordable?

Could someone who understands how to properly interpret propaganda please explain this mystery to me?

Has Government Intervention Stalled Home Price Declines?

By Nick Timiraos

Some housing analysts have made the case that home prices have stabilized in recent months, in part, because foreclosure moratoria earlier this year helped to limit the supply of homes coming on the market during the spring and summer—just as the policymakers simultaneously goosed demand by lowering mortgage rates and offering a tax credit to first-time home buyers.

That raises some big questions: What happens when those new foreclosures accelerate later this year, and more supply hits the market? Will prices decline further if those demand-side incentives run their course? Have government efforts simply hit the pause button on the housing market downturn?

The answers to those questions produce different estimates about how much further the housing market has to fall, and a new forecast from Lazard Asset Management offers several different scenarios. The most probable scenario forecasts that home prices have another 10-15% decline from the current level, though prices are expected to rise slightly through the end of the summer as government intervention helps boost the housing market.

But Lazard also offers two additional scenarios: a “bull” market forecast that predicts an 8% home price decline from May, and a “bear” market scenario that forecasts a 19% price decline from the first quarter of 2009.

“Even in our bear case, it is clear that the government intervention to increase affordability and demand through lower mortgage rates, and to decrease supply through foreclosure moratoria and modifications, are having a positive impact on house prices relative to what would have occurred in the short term,” writes Ronald Temple, portfolio manager and co-director of research at Lazard Asset Management. ”The key question is how sustainable the benefits of such intervention will be.”

In all of their scenarios, their “affordability” outlook sounds pretty bearish to me. I have no idea about the supposed benefits of government price fixing that this fool is describing.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 13:27:03

Source: WSJ / August 18, 2009, 10:42 AM ET

Another question: What “government” is he talking about? Certainly our democratically elected federal government is not in the business of propping up housing prices?

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 13:38:39

“Even in our bear case, it is clear that the government intervention to increase affordability and demand through lower mortgage rates, and to decrease supply through foreclosure moratoria and modifications, are having a positive impact on house prices relative to what would have occurred in the short term,” writes Ronald Temple, portfolio manager and co-director of research at Lazard Asset Management. ”The key question is how sustainable the benefits of such intervention will be.”

WTF??? Where do they write this stuff? Inside a blender half drunk?

“Engineering” the housing market caused this crap in the first place. Re-engineering it, AKA trying to repeal gravity will cause “unintended” distortions. We will end up with one screwed up mess, which to be sure will require more intervention by the PTB and drag the mess out for a decade or more.

Sorry PB, I can’t splain it!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 15:42:53

Reflation efforts are already underway, and causing one of the worst financial train records in recorded history. And any potential scope for public input is scuttled thanks to the never-ending financial emergency.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-08-20 13:46:42

Clunk!

AP Source: Cash for Clunkers to end on Monday.

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration plans to end the popular $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program on Monday, giving car shoppers a few more days to take advantage of big government incentives.

The Transportation Department said Thursday the government will wind down the program on Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. Car buyers can receive rebates of $3,500 or $4,500 for trading in older vehicles for new, more fuel-efficient models.

“It’s been a thrill to be part of the best economic news story in America,” Secretary Ray LaHood said in a statement. “Now we are working toward an orderly wind down of this very popular program.”

Through Thursday, auto dealers have made deals worth $1.9 billion and are on pace to exhaust the program’s $3 billion in early September. The incentives have generated more than 457,000 vehicle sales. Administration officials said they have reviewed nearly 40 percent of the transactions and have already paid out $145 million to dealers.

Administration officials said applications for rebates will not be accepted after 8 p.m. EDT Monday and dealers should not make additional sales without receiving all the necessary paperwork from their customers. Dealers will be able to resubmit rejected applications after the deadline.

President Barack Obama said in an interview Thursday that the program has been “successful beyond anybody’s imagination” but dealers were overwhelmed by the response of consumers. He pledged that dealers “will get their money.”

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-08-20 16:16:57

Like all bad ideas, the politicians loved it.

Throw somebody else’s money at some perceived situation for some unknown benefit and then proclaim it all a smashing success.

So who won the War on Poverty LBJ started?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 17:21:18

That’s easy. Private prison corporations and the generally, for profit, criminal (”They don’t call it ‘criminal’ for nothing!) justice system won the war on poverty!

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 20:56:09

You know sometimes you remind me of alpha-sloth

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 21:11:34

I hear I remind some of another.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:31:47

Privatization is all the rage. But there are some sectors where privatization makes little or no sense, due to the perverse incentives created. Cases in point:

1) Prison system

- If they do a good job of rehabilitating prisoners, they put themselves out of business.

2) Military

a. Private contractors with fancier, richer equipment make the rank and file US servicemen feel deprived.

b. Ending a war is bad for business; endless war is very, very good for business.

c. Who is held responsible if war crimes (e.g. forms of torture against the Geneva Convention) are committed by private military contractors working in the employ of Uncle Sam?

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-20 22:41:55

OT…but here are the judges were were being bribed by the private prisons to increase the population at juvenile hall. $2.6 million and worth every dime.

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/02/judges-jailed-for-ta.html

Judges jailed for taking bribes from private juvie prisons to send kids to jail

Posted by Cory Doctorow, February 2, 2009 12:15 AM

Two senior Pennsylvania judges have been sentenced to seven years in prison for taking bribes from juvenile detention centers — in exchange for the bribes, the judges turned in guilty verdicts for the teens who appeared before them and sent them to juvie, thus enriching the operators of the kiddy gulag. For this, the judges received $2.6 million in kickbacks.

First, the judges helped the detention centers land a county contract worth $58 million. Then their alleged scheme was to guarantee the operators a steady income by detaining juveniles, often on petty stuff.

Many of the kids were railroaded, according to allegations lodged with the state Supreme Court last year by the Philadelphia-based Juvenile Law Center, an advocacy group.

In asking the court to intervene in April, the law center cited hundreds of examples where teens accused of minor mischief were pressured to waive their right to lawyers, and then shipped to a detention center.

One teen was given a 90-day sentence for having parodied a school administrator online. Such unwarranted detentions left “both children and parents feeling bewildered, violated and traumatized,” center lawyers said.

“Very few people would stand up” to the Luzerne judges, according to the law center’s executive director, Robert G. Schwartz.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 23:31:45

Way more O/T. A few years ago, I met a graduate student in history from then Southwest Texas State University (now Texas State University) in San Marcos. She had just given a talk on her research on chain gangs in TX and LA in early-mid 20th century, it had a catchy title (preceding academic subtitle) that I have forgotten.

Besides the usual attendees, there were a handful of execs and employees from Wackenhut (who run a nearby privatized state prison). She said they thought they were attending a seminar in how to increase profits.

Although - in fairness - maybe they were just getting off their campus to a more attractive one with nice nearby places for lunch with cute and cheerful patrons.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by edward
2009-08-20 13:51:45

Court mix-up leaves Fla. family evicted for a day

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1110ap_us_eviction_mistake.html

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 14:24:05

‘Is Population Growth a Ponzi Scheme?’
(Christian Science Monitor)

http://tinyurl.com/l7e4jz

…Growth, whether through immigration or natural increase, is a plus for some groups. For business, it means a boost in the demand for products. It also means a surge in low- and high-skilled workers, which can keep a lid on wage pressures. Religious and ethnic groups want more immigrants of their own faith and ethnicity to raise their political and social clout. The military regards young immigrants as potential recruits.
But the public pays a cost for a bigger population.
Mr. Chamie speaks of more congestion on highways, more farmland turned into housing developments, more environmental damage, including the output of pollutants associated with climate change.
In the current healthcare debate in the US, one costly question is whether the insurance covers some 11 million illegal immigrants…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 15:38:21

Better statement:

- Continuous population growth provides good support for Ponzi schemes (e.g. OASDI).

- When the dependency ratio gets sufficiently high, the Ponzi scheme is doomed.

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-20 15:42:29

BINGO

It’s all about power of elites.

Hispanic leaders want more hispanics, even though those already here will face more competition for their jobs and a decline in salaries and working conditions.

Business wants more of everybody to increase demand and drive down wages.

Every religion on the planet wants to do away with birthcontrol and womens rights because they know that without those things the women will always be pregnant leading to more small minds for the religious leaders to manipulate in their quest for earthly financial/political rewards.

The reality is that we would all be better off with less famine, war and disease if we stopped population growth. It will never happen of course. Just like any animal we will grow until the environment stops our growth via war famine and disease. War famine and disease are population control for those that don’t believe in birth control.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 17:12:22

War famine and disease are population control for those that don’t believe in birth control.

Truer words were never spoken. Sigh. And it’s such a tragedy, too.
I mean, aren’t we supposed to be evolved enough to actually utilize our big ol’ wrinkly cerebrums? Predict outcomes based on reasoning and observed fact? Over-ride our instincts and emotions when it is SO CLEARLY in our best interests to do so?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-08-20 17:16:46

Nope. Sorry. Maybe in another, oh million years.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 18:02:49

Oh, goody. So you’re saying there IS hope…
:roll:

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 18:07:18

ecofeco, the eternal optimist

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-08-20 18:19:53

Yup. We’ve learned nothing.

1900 world population =~ 1.6 billion
1950 world population =~ 2.5 billion
2000 world population =~ 6 billion

It took the entire history of man to reach 1.6 billion. In a single century we quadrupled world population.

Somewhere in that 100 years you would think we would have been enlightened enough to at least consider curtailing the birth rate thru encouragement, contraceptives, etc.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 21:11:45

Really? I thought it was all about stupid elites who throw away all their wealth and power into the ocean, then expect some kind of magic money tree to make them whole again. It might work once or twice, but anything that cannot go on forever will stop.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 16:06:25

Financial Times
The Fed’s independence is at risk
By Glenn Hubbard, Hal Scott and John Thornton
Published: August 20 2009 19:55 | Last updated: August 20 2009 19:55

As leaders gather this week for the annual Jackson Hole symposium on the economy, they should consider the future of the Federal Reserve as lender of last resort. Over many decades and especially in this financial crisis, the Fed has used its balance sheet to be a classic lender of last resort. But its ability to do so depends upon its economic credibility and political independence, attributes the Fed has compromised in this crisis.

As the crisis worsened at the end of 2007, the Fed created new liquidity facilities, some of which involved new recipients, beyond depository institutions, such as investment banks and corporate commercial paper issuers. In addition, in 2008, the Fed made extraordinary “bail-out” loans to avoid the failure of systemically important institutions – a $30bn (£18bn, €21bn) non-recourse loan, with a $1bn deductible, to assist JP Morgan Chase’s acquisition of Bear Stearns and the creation of a two-year $85bn credit facility for AIG. Also, the Fed, in partnership with the Treasury and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, guaranteed $424bn of losses on pools of Citigroup and Bank of America bad assets.

These actions have had a big impact on the Fed’s balance sheet. As of June 2009, its total assets had risen to over $2,000bn compared with $852bn in 2006, and only 29 per cent of these assets were Treasury securities, compared with 91 per cent in 2006. Traditional loans by a lender of last resort are sufficiently collateralised to prevent moral hazard for borrowers and reduce risk to the central bank. However, the adequacy of the collateral of these new Fed positions is unclear.

Ya think?

Comment by Jim A.
2009-08-20 16:29:11

Well they’ve been following only 1/3rd of Bagehote’s prescription. They’ve been lending freely, at low interest on bad collateral.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 16:30:15

“…low interest…”

Compared to what?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 16:20:52

Ethiopian Review
China’s CIC set to invest in U.S. mortgages
Posted by Mehret Tesfaye | August 19th, 2009 at 4:04 pm |

HONG KONG – China’s $200 billion sovereign wealth fund, which lost big on its ill-timed 2007 Morgan Stanley and Blackstone bets, plans to invest up to $2 billion in U.S. mortgages as it eyes a property market rebound, two people with direct knowledge of the matter said Monday.

China Investment Corp plans to soon invest in U.S. taxpayer-subsidized investment funds that will acquire “toxic” mortgage-backed securities from the nation’s banks. CIC believes these assets are a safer bet than buying into the U.S. Federal Reserve’s Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility (TALF), the people with direct knowledge said.

CIC is in talks with nine U.S. Treasury-designated Public-Private Investment Plan managers, the sources said.

They include: AllianceBernstein Holding, with sub-advisers Greenfield Partners LLC and Rialto Capital Management LLC; Angelo, Gordon & Co LP with GE Capital Real Estate, a unit of General Electric Co; BlackRock Inc; Invesco Ltd; Marathon Asset Management LP; Oaktree Capital Management LP; Trust Company of the West, a unit of Legg Mason; RLJ Western Asset Management LP, a venture formed by Legg’s Western Asset Management unit; and Wellington Management Co LLP.

CIC is expected to decide this month which of the nine PPIP managers will handle its investments in mortgage-backed securities under the PPIP plan, the sources said.

The fund is likely to select several, not all, of the firms, said the sources, who have direct knowledge of the matter, but asked not to be identified as the talks are confidential. CIC cannot invest directly in the PPIP.

CIC, BlackRock, Legg Mason and AllianceBernstein declined to comment. Officials from the other investment managers were not immediately available.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 21:14:39

Fool me once, I’m a fool.
Fool me twice, I’m a tool.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 21:47:05

Capitalist tool! I think we came to the same conclusion…but yours did rhyme.

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 21:22:24

China’s not dumb. (Not that dumb.) They’re bailing us out because we’re Siamese twins. If one half goes, so does the other.

It’s Good to be the King (consumer).

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:26:39

Too bad The King is out of Cash.

No cash — no cheap crap.

But I suppose if our housing bubble were sufficiently reflated, then BB could trot out AG’s old speech about the efficiency of using financially innovative mortgage financing to tap into those home equity wealth effects, and we’d have the symbiosis back in full swing again.

Is that pretty much the current game plan, or am I missing something?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 16:22:04

U.S. TREASURY APPROVES

Under the Public-Private Investment Plan launched earlier this year, the U.S. government plans to seed a number of investment funds with taxpayer money.

When combined with money from other investors, these private sector-managed funds are expected to soak up as much as $40 billion in soured, hard-to-sell securities clogging the balance sheets of banks.

CIC’s move comes after the United States and China ended their first annual Strategic and Economic Dialogue late last month. The two countries agreed to lead the global economy out of recession, with China seeking safer investments in the world’s leading economy.

“The Chinese government is always trying to seek a more ideal way to invest in U.S. assets rather than purely buying U.S. government bonds all the time,” said the source.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 16:59:36

“Public-Private Investment Plan”

So which of the democratic-US government and communist-Chinese government is the public partner and which is the private partner in this U.S. tax dollar sweetened deal? Me confused…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 17:02:37

Possible explanation:

“…government of the people debt slaves, by the people central bankers, for the people ruling elite, shall not perish from the earth.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 17:04:09

Oops — I didn’t mean to strike central bankers — dang, I did it again!

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Comment by neuromance
2009-08-20 19:01:09

the U.S. government plans to seed a number of investment funds with taxpayer money.

The government will continue to spend the country’s wealth on every zany, hair-brained idea, until economic fundamentals dictate that they must stop.

I think that means some heavy duty inflation would have to happen.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-08-20 16:41:12

http://www.randpaul2010.com/

Dr. Rand Paul (son of Dr. Ron Paul) is running for the Senate. A recent poll showed he is a serious contender. His campaign has launched a Ron Paul-style “money bomb” for grassroots donations, since the corporate cartels and special interests who own most Republicrat candidates most assuredly will be contributing to his opponent. Write a generous check to Ben Jones, then please consider helping a good man send shock-waves through the Republicrat Establishment.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 17:42:03

Think about writing a check to a land conservancy group of your choice too - there’s going to be some developable raw land for sale that could be purchased for conservation.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-08-20 18:04:00

What a SUPER FANTASTIC idea, zilky! You must be some sort of freakin’ genious or something!

 
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-20 16:59:29

“Skip.
I have never seen the benefit of either provided that my employer pays me the equivalent so I can save for retirement and buy insurance myself.

You wish is coming true. Recently, we have seen companies like Ford, Starbucks, etc. cancel 401ks programs. Of course the employees got nothing in exchange. As Janis said “freedoms just another word for nothing left to loose”. Soon, I can see employees getting more freedom as health benefits are cut as well.”

Sorry Robin, I usually catch the spelling and fix it when I repost/reply.
Loose vs LOSE!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-08-20 17:08:19

Just want to say re; the occasional posters who are disappointed that there isn’t a “more serious tone” to the HBB lately and from another, that there seems to be “flirting” rather than serious discussions.

I think the HBB gets so overwhelmed with the Seriousness of the PTB and all the money going hither and yon without reason and roi for the rest of us, and the constant drivel of the msm and the monotony of incessant detail, and the lies, that flirting and levity have given the hbb respite and a Break.

“just sayin”

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 18:05:31

I agree with desertdweller.

It’s nice to have shifts in rhythm and texture in the ongoing HBB discourse. There’s plenty of serious content and a heaping share of frustration, disillusion, and despair.

Comment by Lenderoflastresort
2009-08-20 22:37:59

But I miss the serious threads. Surely someone could throw up an excerpt from the Wall Street Journal or some such, so we don’t have to read threads about coffee. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-21 00:18:40

I miss the serious threads

I see plenty of serious stuff here, more than I can follow up - and I spend time doing so. Some posters, including ones that annoy me like hell :-)
do a yeoman’s job of putting up serious articles.

A lack of WSJ excerpts might have to do with subscription rights, other sources too.

You could - in your words - “throw up” in your own thread what you want to see discussed (WSJ excerpts or whatever) and deal with responses as the recent guest posters have been doing valiantly.

Talk about false nostalgia….

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-08-20 17:42:39

A quarter of Florida mortgage borrowers behind on payments or in foreclosure
by Jeff Ostrowski
Fully 25.4 percent of Florida mortgage borrowers were at least a month behind on loan payments in the second quarter, the Mortgage Bankers Association says today.

The breakdown:

3.73% of loans were 30 days past due.
1.91% were 60 days past due.
5.16% were 90 days or more past due.
14.60% were in some stage of foreclosure.
The report looked at 3.5 million Florida mortgages. Nationally, Florida ranked second in foreclosures started (after Nevada) and first in foreclosure inventory.

Comment by Lenderoflastresort
2009-08-20 22:44:41

Wow! Thanks for that. Puts things into perspective!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 18:28:51

Termite infestation destabilizes Icelandic banking system; bagholders to be identified shortly.

American Public Media Marketplace
Thursday, August 20, 2009
Iceland payback plan raises some noise

Iceland’s parliament is about to vote on a massive financial package. The plan is to repay more than $5 billion that British and Dutch savers lost in one of the Icelandic banks that failed last fall.

Sounds like chump change, until you calculate that since Iceland only has 300,000 people. It’s equivalent to asking us in the U.S. to fork over $4 trillion.

Marketplace’s Stephen Beard has the story.

STEPHEN BEARD: Protest by percussion. Icelanders demonstrate outside their parliament in distinctive fashion, banging pots and pans and even gongs. The din is a way of venting disgust.

JON BALDVIN HANNIBALSSON: The general feeling among the public is that we’ve been had. We’ve been tricked. And we are innocent victims.

Former foreign minister Jon Baldvin Hannibalsson. He says many Icelandic taxpayers do not believe they should pick up the entire tab for the collapse of the online bank Icesave.

HANNIBALSSON: They are called upon to pay huge debts. And they ask themselves: Did we take on the loans? Did we ask for the loans? Are we responsible for the loans? No, they were not.

When Icesave failed last fall, foreign depositors, mostly British and Dutch, stood to lose a fortune. The British and Dutch governments stepped in and compensated their citizens in full. Now they are pressuring Iceland to reimburse them. Dropping hints that the country’s application to join the EU and even its access to IMF loans could be in jeopardy.

Magnus Arni Skulason is a leading critic of the repayment deal.

MAGNUS ARNI SKULASON: Icelanders in general find it unfair that they are paying for the mistakes of Icelandic bankers and financial supervisory authorities both in Iceland and in Europe.

A protester in Reykjavic rails against the small group of Icelandic bankers that have ruined the country. “Termites,” he calls them, “they have eaten the fabric of our society.” That rhetoric is not too far removed from reality, says Jon Daniellsson — a lecturer at the London School of Economics.

He says the Icesave debt alone would be a crippling burden.

JON DANIELLSSON: Iceland is by far the worst affected economy in the global crisis. Its economy is spiralling down continually and taking on that sizeable burden is quite likely to cause the government of Iceland to end in bankruptcy.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 18:41:17

“Sounds like chump change, until you calculate that since Iceland only has 300,000 people. It’s equivalent to asking us in the U.S. to fork over $4 trillion.”

That reminds me — by how much has the Fed expanded its balance sheet since last fall? Looks like the current level is ‘only’ $2 trillion — up roughly 100 percent in one year — no worries!

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-08-20 20:18:24

Ben has posted a few times what our tax burden for each man woman and child was before all the bailouts.

 
 
Comment by Lenderoflastresort
2009-08-20 22:56:32

PB/GS-

Here’s a link you should see. On the ground about surviving Iceland. http://newsfrettir.com/alive/ It’s also available by dogpile.com “surviving Iceland”

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 18:47:43

Luckily, China is riding to the rescue of the US housing market, as otherwise this news would be highly concerning.

Washington Post
Troubled Mortgages Hit Record High
Problem Shifts From Subprime Loans to Jobless Homeowners

(Photo description)
A home has been foreclosed upon in Nevada. The majority of the foreclosure problem is in the Sun Belt states. :-(

By Renae Merle
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 21, 2009

The proportion of homeowners delinquent on their mortgage or in foreclosure rose to its highest levels in at least four decades, according to industry data released Thursday, despite extensive government efforts to help borrowers and signs the economy is starting to heal.

The problem has shifted from the subprime loans that helped spark the foreclosure crisis to borrowers driven into delinquency by unemployment, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, which issued the survey. The recession’s impact on the market could send foreclosure rates up through the end of next year, said Jay Brinkmann, the group’s chief economist.

“It is unlikely we will see meaningful reductions in the foreclosure and delinquency rates until the employment situation improves,” he said.

About 9.24 percent of borrowers were delinquent on their mortgage during the second quarter, according to the survey, and 4.3 percent more were somewhere in the foreclosure process. Overall, one in eight, or 13.16 percent, of mortgage loans were delinquent or in the foreclosure process during the quarter, according to the group.

That is the highest level ever recorded by the survey, which has been conducted since 1972, and breaks the high mark set during the first quarter. It is up from about 9 percent during the second quarter of 2008.

“I think these numbers reflect the gap between the number of modifications that have been done and the need that still exists,” said Charlene Crowell, a spokeswoman for the Center for Responsible Lending. “Until that gap is closed, the housing market will continue to suffer.”

I think these numbers represent a FUBAR housing market situation.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 18:49:48
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 18:54:34

“Less Vegas” is still in denial, along with the PTB who are keeping the faith against all odds in their not-so-stealthy housing bubble reflation efforts.

Thursday, August 20, 2009

<b?How Las Vegas went bust
Hotel-casinos and homes in Las Vegas.

Las Vegas was one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the nation. But when the housing bubble burst, so did its economy. Host Tess Vigeland talks with Joel Stein, who wrote about Sin City’s troubles for Time magazine’s cover story this week.

Hotel-casinos are seen behind homes in Las Vegas. (Ethan Miller/Getty Images)

Tess Vigeland: The city of Las Vegas, Sin City, was for years one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country. People flocked to good jobs at casinos. Anyone could get a house. The odds of a decent lifestyle were in your favor. At least that was the story.

The growth of Vegas largely matched the trajectory of the housing bubble, a seemingly endless explosion of building and buying and big payouts. But when the bubble burst, so did Sin City’s economy.

Joel Stein writes about it in this week’s Time Magazine. Welcome to the program.

JOEL STEIN: Oh, thanks for having me. This is very exciting.

VIGELAND: Give us a bit of an economic snap shot of what Vegas is like right now. I was actually there a few months ago, and it was awfully slow.

STEIN: What were you doing in Vegas?

VIGELAND: Oh, I can’t tell.

STEIN: Wow, see that’s the good thing. The place is full of people like you. So when you walk around the casinos and the pools, it’s pretty full because the prices have dropped so much, particularly the hotel rooms. But you don’t have to go very far to see a bunch of unfinished hotels that are just going to sit there forever, cranes that are going nowhere. And if you drive outside the strip, the foreclosure rate is unbelievable.

VIGELAND: One of the things you realize as you read the article is how much of a microcosm Vegas was for the entire bust across the country. Talk to us a little bit about how pre-recession Vegas really was symbolic of pre-recession America and its mindset.

STEIN: Well, the great thing is you can go to Vegas and you can see the moment when the boom stopped. Because you can see the last house in the housing project, or you can see the level of the hotel where they stopped. So it almost feels like there was just a day when all the credit left, really. And everyone just had to stop. And that’s when the unemployment rate goes from, like, three-point-something percent to 12 percent really quickly.

VIGELAND: Does the new Vegas, the post-bust Vegas at all represent the rest of the bust?

STEIN: Yeah, it’s interesting to go around Vegas because I thought after hearing all this stuff about the new economy and thrift that the hotels would kinda be changing, and the rooms would look different, or they’d go back to the cheap buffets. But they’re holding ground. They assume that this is another small cycle, America will go back to just how it was. People get used to bad times, and they don’t really want to change their lives.

VIGELAND: But how can you not change a gambling habit when you have no money?

STEIN: Well, you’ve obviously never been to Vegas.

VIGELAND: Come with no money, leave with even less.

STEIN: Exactly. It’s the only city I know of where they make a lot of money and produce absolutely nothing.

VIGELAND: In the article you also talk about folks who are capitalizing on the wasteland. Can you give us a couple of examples of that.

STEIN: Yeah, there’s a lot of people who have already figured out how to make money on the bust in Vegas. I think a lot of real-estate agents have figured out how to short homes, basically move people from a home where they’re underwater and let the banks deal with that problem, and buy a new home. So I think there’s already real-estate agents out there who are making a decent profit off of this. There are already casino operators who are back in business. Phil Ruffin bought Treasure Island really cheap off of MGM, who was pouring all their money into CityCenter and was just desperate for cash.

VIGELAND: You know, the excess, the greed, the expansion, it really brings to mind visions of Rome.

STEIN: Yeah.

VIGELAND: Have we seen an empire truly fall here? Can Vegas bounce back?

STEIN: It looks like it has been sacked. Because you walk into these foreclosed homes and all the copper wiring has been stripped, and all the appliances are taken out, and people angrily kind of destroy things or throw paint on the walls. I don’t know what happened when Rome fell, but people are going to party until the thing burns. I think there’s at least once cycle left in this country, and certainly in Vegas.

 
 
Comment by neuromance
2009-08-20 18:57:45

It occurs to me that financial company executives are the highest paid government employees.

Here’s how: Their companies created a giant black hole of bad debt, from which they were paid very handsomely. Government then stepped in to fill that black hole of debt. So, the financial companies simply switched the usual order - paying themselves first from the black hole, then having the government coming in and supply the money.

Most government contractors get a contract first, then pay themselves exorbitantly. The financial companies decided they could make more if they skipped the ‘getting the contract’ part.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 19:16:04

“The financial companies decided they could make more if they skipped the ‘getting the contract’ part.”

That is a key advantage of ‘negotiating’ your government contract at the height of a crisis.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 19:18:11

“…switched the usual order - paying themselves first from the black hole, then having the government coming in and supply the money.”

This is the normal order for ad hoc, too-big-to-fail bailouts.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 19:24:42

market pulse

Aug 20, 2009, 8:40 p.m. EST
Japanese exporters drop, South Korean banks rise
By V. Phani Kumar

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — Asian markets traded mixed early, with exporters dragging down Japan as the U.S. dollar fell below the 94-yen level.
…In Tokyo, the Nikkei 225 Average dropped 0.6% to 10,317.04, and the broader Topix fell 0.5%.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 19:28:11

I hope this MarketWatch writer doesn’t mind a little editorial feedback?

And to all our bullish friends on Wall Street, I say:

“Ask not for whom the (opening) bell tolls — it tolls for thee.”

Market Snapshot

Aug 20, 2009, 4:26 p.m. EST
U.S. stock market and Chinese equities: apples and oranges
After rising 80% since March, benchmark Chinese index drops 20% in two weeks

By Kate Gibson, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — The U.S. stock market has been echoing blithely disregarding the movement of Chinese equities , at least in trading before the opening bell this week. But some analysts say the recent fixation on China’s stock market is overblown.

“Intermarket relationships around the world have never been stronger. So when the benchmark Chinese index pulls back 20% in two weeks, the world should take notice,” wrote Richard Ross, global technical strategist at Auerbach Grayson, in a note.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 21:01:10

China Said to Plan Tightening of Capital Requirements for Banks
By Bloomberg News

Aug. 21 (Bloomberg) — China plans to tighten capital requirements for banks, threatening to curb the record lending that’s fueled a 60 percent rally in the nation’s stock market, three people familiar with the matter said.

The China Banking Regulatory Commission sent a draft of rule changes to banks on Aug. 19 requiring them to deduct all existing holdings of subordinated and hybrid debt sold by other lenders from supplementary capital, said the people, who have seen the document. Banks have until Aug. 25 to give feedback, said the people, who declined to be identified as the matter is private.

As a result, banks may need to rein in lending or sell shares to lift capital adequacy ratios to the 12 percent mandated by the regulator. Chinese stocks briefly entered a so- called bear market this week on concerns the government would stymie new loans that exceeded $1 trillion in the first half. A news department official at the regulator declined to comment by phone and didn’t immediately respond to a faxed inquiry.

“This move will cut one of the most important funding sources for banks,” said Sheng Nan, an analyst at UOB Kayhian Investment Co. in Shanghai. Banks will “have to either raise more equity capital or slow down lending and other capital consuming businesses to stay afloat.”

 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-08-20 19:34:55

continued from above (apologize if first part ends up double-posted)

another story: “Star Riverside Halts Construction.” This is the big Australian “ultra-hip” luxury condo development on the north-east corner of I-35 and Riverside (fugly spot, close to ghetto-ish E Riverside, separated from downtown by I-35). They are freezing construction to do a mid-project redesign to more modest more affordable (ha!) units.

W Hotel and Residences (now offices, too!) is purportedly still under construction, while seeking new funding after Stratus bankruptcy. KLBJ radio reported: “On June 26, 2009, the loan agreement with Corus was assigned to a subsidiary of Stratus, which is jointly managed by Stratus and Canyon-Johnson, in exchange for a pay down of $250,000 of the outstanding principal balance of $2.1 million. As a result, Corus is no longer the lender and in the second quarter of 2009 Stratus recognized a $0.2 million loss on extinguishment of debt, which includes the write-off of unamortized deferred loan costs in the amount of $2.1 million.”

The obscene Zilker Park Residences right on the edge of the park (corner of Robert E Lee and Barton Springs Rd) had problems selling their $600,000 to million-dollar units and redesigned months ago, I think were adding a hotel. They’ve scraped some ground and put up some of that black retaining wall cloth.

Haven’t heard anything lately about the lawsuit last spring by residents against the Sabine, downtown condo conversion - common area including elevator not being properly maintained, dangerously shoddy remodel. But AFAIK the lawsuit continues.

It’s been over a year since construction of the La Vista on La Vaca luxury condo and office project, just south of Martin Luther King Boulevard (southern boundary of UT campus) stalled completely. That’s the one where the right lane of La Vaca St. was closed for a year, including months after construction stalled. The shell bears a poignant sign : “ Ground floor Restaurant / Retail space for sale.”

Central and south mid-rise condo complexes completed 2-3 years ago have unsold units, including Bridges on the Park on Lamar south of Barton Springs Rd, right across from the hike and bike trail and Caswell on N. Lamar across from Pease Park. There are at least 4 S. Lamar plots where condo complexes were aborted that have been standing for sale for over a year. The proposed high rise across from Lamar Plaza strip shopping center (Heart of Texas Music & former Salvation Army) never happened - not much land, steeply sloping, just above railroad tracks. Nearby condo conversion of shabby apartments (corner of Lamar and Treadwell - first stoplight south of Barton Springs Rd) now is touting “newly remodeled rentals.” Conversion units further south and west, Manchaca from Lamar to Ben White Blvd, have heavy among the 78704 foreclosures for over a year.

As to large defunct exurban developments in Travis county, on Sept 1, Avana (south of Circle C Ranch) will be in the county auction. So will Viscaya, on the south shore of Lake Austin. Rocky Creek Ranch on Hamilton Pool Road went back to the bank in the last month. So did another one; I don’t have name and details on hand now.

Again, this is nothing new on the national scale, but Austin was immersed in the Kool-Aid until recent months. Things have changed.

I’ll be in Austin this weekend for a change, so I’ll try to get out on Sun AM and take some pictures to post in a Flickr account.

 
Comment by measton
2009-08-20 20:15:58

And here is what the housing bubble was all about

Aug. 20 (Bloomberg) — U.S. pension funds contributed to the record $1.2 trillion that private-equity firms raised this decade. Three of the biggest investors, state pensions in California, Oregon and Washington, plunked down at least $53.8 billion. So far, they only have dwindling paper profits and a lot less cash to show the millions of policemen, teachers and other civil servants in their retirement plans.

The age old problem of how to get conservative investors to part with their money.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 20:59:22

Let’s see how this movie’s plot goes, and how it will end:

1) Realizing the stock market always goes up, pension fund managers all go long, longer and longest into equities.

2) Wall Street skims a large fortune in fees off the constant flow of funds into stock investments.

3) Wall Street blows up in craptacular fashion in Fall 2008.

4) All the king’s horses and all the king’s men try to reflate the bubble, to no avail, and a whole generation of retirees is screwed (except for retired investment bankers).

Let’s hope this turns out to be a fairy tail, and the ending is much happier…

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-08-20 21:57:28

5) We bail out the banks, pension funds, and stock market and charge it to the younger generation that’s busy texting Mary Jane Rottencrotch in the back of homeroom.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:22:01

“…younger generation that’s busy texting Mary Jane Rottencrotch in the back of homeroom.”

Glad to at least learn that deserving people will get screwed…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 21:08:42

This housing bubble is thoroughly, utterly, completely popped. It is time to end the denial and start figure out how to pick up the pieces.

Most incredibly, the PTB remain steadfastly in denial about the irreversible nature of the situation. I suppose it is nobler to be in denial and believe your own delusions, than to constantly lie through your teeth?

And as for those prices that are supposedly leveling off, let’s see what happens if the $8K first-time home buyer tax credit giveaway is ended before getting too confident about their sustainability. And the prime- and Alt-A reset tsunami crest is just beginning.

GOT POPCORN?

* WALL STREET JOURNAL
* REAL ESTATE
* AUGUST 21, 2009

Souring Prime Loans Compound Mortgage Woes
Programs Designed to Prevent Foreclosures Face Pressure

By NICK TIMIRAOS

A survey found that one in eight U.S. households with mortgages was in foreclosure or behind on its mortgage payments during the second quarter, putting added pressure on programs aimed at preventing foreclosures.

While foreclosure starts have slowed on the subprime loans that ignited the mortgage and banking crisis, loans extended to borrowers with good credit are deteriorating at a faster clip as falling home prices and mounting job losses weigh on more households.

The Mortgage Bankers Association said its latest survey, released Thursday, showed that 13.2% of mortgages on homes with one to four units were at least a month overdue or in the foreclosure process in the April-to-June period, up from 12.1% in the first quarter and 9% a year earlier.

As home sales have picked up in recent months, some were expecting foreclosures and delinquencies to ease. But Jay Brinkmann, chief economist at the MBA, said foreclosures weren’t expected to peak until later in 2010 when the economy improves.

“Just because we see prices level off doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll see a big reduction in foreclosures,” said Mr. Brinkmann, in part because many homeowners would still owe more than their homes were worth.

Deteriorating prime loans are increasingly behind the steady rise in delinquencies and foreclosures. Among prime loans, 9% were past due or in foreclosure at the end of June, up from 5.35% one year ago. For subprime loans, those for borrowers with weak credit records or high debts relative to income, the rate was 39.5%, compared with 30% last year.

Prime loans, however, accounted for 58% of foreclosure starts, up from 44% last year. Meanwhile, subprime mortgages accounted for 33% of foreclosure starts, down from 49%. Prime fixed-rate mortgages, usually considered among the safest of all loan types, accounted for one in three foreclosure starts, up from one in five.

More than 235,000 borrowers have begun trial mortgage modifications under an Obama administration effort launched in March that focuses on reducing monthly mortgage payments for borrowers who have fallen behind on their payments. An additional 60,000 borrowers with little or no home equity have refinanced to lower rates through a parallel program launched by the administration.

But modification programs may not be able to help the growing number of borrowers who are falling behind on their payments because they are losing their jobs. Most loan-modification programs have been designed to help borrowers with loans that reset to higher payments or with high debt-to-income ratios.

The first wave of foreclosures that began two years ago, when the economy was still relatively healthy, was triggered by a downturn in housing prices that made it harder for subprime borrowers to refinance mortgages that were resetting to higher payments. Now, foreclosures are increasingly being driven by traditional economic problems, including falling home prices, falling incomes and rising joblessness.

Four states — Florida, Nevada, Arizona and California — continue to account for a large part of foreclosures in the U.S., but their share of new foreclosures fell to 44% in the second quarter, from 46% in the first quarter. In Florida, nearly 23% of mortgages were past due, including 12% that were in some stage of foreclosure and 5% that were 90 days or more past due at the end of June. Nevada trailed closely behind, with 21% of mortgages that were late or in foreclosure.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:20:55

Los Angeles Times | BUSINESS

Mortgage defaults soar to record 13%

In the second quarter, the number of homeowners behind on payments or in foreclosure rose along with the jobless rate, with California among states leading the way.

By E. Scott Reckard And Ronald D. White

August 21, 2009

Widespread joblessness is causing more Americans to fall behind on their house payments, triggering a new round of foreclosures that some analysts fear could delay the nation’s economic recovery.

A mortgage trade group reported Thursday that more than 13% of the nation’s homeowners were delinquent on their mortgages or in the process of having their homes repossessed during the second quarter of this year. That’s the highest figure since tracking began in 1972. California’s rate, 15.2%, was among the highest of all states.

The numbers underscores a worrisome trend. A spate of foreclosures — which began with speculators who walked away from their souring investments, then spread to high-risk borrowers who couldn’t make their payments when their low-interest mortgages reset — is now hitting unemployed homeowners with good credit scores, clean financial histories and conventional home loans.

The U.S. has shed 6.7 million jobs since the recession began, employment losses that have left even high-quality borrowers struggling. One in three new foreclosures from April to June was from a prime, fixed-rate loan, up from one in five a year earlier.

The rising tide of foreclosures could swamp positive economic trends such as improving home sales and a surprise increase in U.S. regional manufacturing, also reported Thursday.

“The broadening of the foreclosure crisis to include prime loans due to high and rising unemployment will delay a bottom in the housing market and threatens the economic recovery,” said Mark Zandi, co-founder and chief economist of Moody’s Economy dot communist.

The good news. . .

The record number of mortgages in delinquency and default should have no effect on home prices, whatever.

The bad news
.
.
.
.
I’M LYING THROUGH MY TEETH LIKE A SCUM-SUCKING BANKER!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:55:15

“Friends of Sigurdsson” loans bite former co-CEO of Icelandic bank in the back of the neck:

Kaupthing chief defends bank’s loans to top shareholders

The former chief executive of Kaupthing has defended the business practices of the failed Icelandic bank, after its loan book was leaked on to the internet last month.

By Rowena Mason
Published: 9:13PM BST 20 Aug 2009

Hreidar Mar Sigurdsson, former co-chief executive, said loans to some of the bank’s top shareholders did not need to be disclosed as related-party transactions.

“These loans were not given in the last days of the bank,” said Mr Sigurdsson, who left after the bank failed. “We believed our loans were good, well secured loans.” Kaupthing was the biggest of Iceland’s three banks that collapsed last October, affecting thousands of British savers and many authorities.

Iceland’s prime minister Johanna Sigurdardottir, said Kaupthing’s loans totalling more than €6bn (£5.2bn) to top shareholders were “if not illegal, completely unethical”. Many were provided “without any guarantees or covenants”.

But Mr Sigurdsson said the inter-relatedness of the Icelandic financial sector was “clearly one of the weaknesses of the system”.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 22:59:34

Executive Testifies on Senators’ Mortgages
By Zachary A. Goldfarb
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 28, 2009

The Senate ethics committee has interviewed a former Countrywide Financial executive who testified under oath that Sens. Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.) and Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) were aware that they were accessing a special program to give below-market-rate mortgages to the powerful and famous when he arranged their loans, according to the executive’s attorneys.

The statements from Robert Feinberg, who worked as a loan officer at the mortgage lender, stand in direct contradiction to statements made by Dodd and Conrad, who maintain that they did not know they were part of the Countrywide program created by its chief executive at the time, Angelo Mozilo.

“He always made a big deal about them being in the VIP program. Does he remember the exact words he spoke with Conrad and Dodd? No, but he always made it clear,” said Elana Goldstein, one of Feinberg’s attorneys.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 23:14:53

I suspect that when viewed through the lens of history, Iceland will prove to have played a similar role among western nations during the present financial crisis as Thailand played among the eastern nations during the Asian financial meltdown of the late 1990s — that of a lit match dropped in a withered field of brown stalks.

BTW, the financial crisis is only barely underway. Never mind the green shooters claiming otherwise… they were wrong from the git go in thinking this credit storm would quickly blow over and be contained to a couple of hundred billion dollars in financial damage.
Even though their initial estimates of the size of the crisis were embarrassingly low by orders of magnitude, they are now pretending to be absolutely certain that it is ending when the root cause — bucket loads of toxic, unsalable debt — has not been resolved.

The New York Times
Off the Shelf
The Little Economy That Couldn’t
By HARRY HURT III
Published: August 15, 2009

THERE is a relatively new expression in global financial circles: “going Iceland.”

“Why Iceland?” by Asgeir Jonsson.

It’s not an invitation to foreign tourists to enjoy a vacation on the island known for its geysers, glaciers and legendary Viking heritage. Rather, as Asgeir Jonsson explains, it denotes the sudden economic collapse of an entire country, a tale that larger nations might do well to heed.

Mr. Jonsson details Iceland’s extraordinary roller-coaster ride from rags to riches and back to rags in his fascinating, if often frustratingly arcane, book, “Why Iceland? How One of the World’s Smallest Countries Became the Meltdown’s Biggest Casualty” (McGraw-Hill, $22.95).

Mr. Jonsson says Iceland’s plunge was not caused by criminality or bad luck, and he makes his case with a store of insider knowledge. A native Icelander and the author of several books about Icelandic history and economics, he is head of research and chief economist at Kaupthing Bank, which as the largest bank in Iceland was a central figure in the crisis.

Mr. Jonsson devotes the first half of the book to a recounting of the nation’s history and its rapid-fire evolution into a modern banking power. The main theme is a recurrent swing between an extreme geographic, cultural and geopolitical isolation and an apparently contradictory, equally extreme openness.

“Iceland was the creation of cosmopolitans, Norse chieftains who roamed through the Atlantic and even into the Mediterranean,” Mr. Jonsson notes. “These were confident, risk-taking adventurists that conducted daring raids on hostile territories. On the other hand, they were also refugees, and deeply suspicious of any foreign authority.”

For more than 1,000 years, Iceland remained, as Mr. Jonsson puts it, “frozen in time,” having a land mass the size of Kentucky, an economy based on farming and fishing, and a language all its own.

But the author says Icelanders “refuse to acknowledge that the small size of their nation could ever be a hindrance to their ambition.” He describes them as full of “unbounded confidence and zealous drive” but hobbled by “a lack of critical thinking and precaution.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 23:18:03

* WALL STREET JOURNAL
* OPINION
* AUGUST 19, 2009, 12:59 P.M. ET

The Making Of a Meltdown
The saga of Iceland’s boom and bust.

By DANIEL W. DREZNER

It is an odd question but a fitting one: Why Iceland? It’s boom-to-bust saga—one of the wilder stories of the Great Financial Crash of 2008—is almost as dramatic as a tale from Norse mythology.

To help liberalize its financial sector, Iceland ­privatized its largest banks roughly six years ago and then allowed them to go on a leveraged-buyout spree across ­Scandinavia and Britain. When Iceland’s central bank raised interest rates, the country became an ­epicenter of the carry trade, in which money managers borrow from one country with a low interest rate and place deposits in a country with a higher one. The ­purchasing-power effects were extraordinary. In the span of three years, Iceland’s per-capita income tripled, and its stock market capitalization increased by a ­factor of eight.

Then the credit bubble burst. ­Iceland’s overvalued ­currency plummeted, and there was a run on the country’s banks. As bad as the ­crisis was in the U.S., in Iceland it was worse. By ­October 2008, the financial sector had racked up debts equivalent to eight times the country’s gross ­domestic product. The government had no choice but to seek financing from the International Monetary Fund.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 23:28:50

The silver lining in this story: The stock market almost always does very, very well on days when federal regulators seize failed lenders. Buy lots of stocks on the opening bell tomorrow and make buckets of money. :-)

* The Wall Street Journal
* AUGUST 21, 2009

In New Phase of Crisis, Securities Sink Banks

By ROBIN SIDEL

U.S. banks have been dying at the fastest rate since 1992, mainly because of bad loans they made. Now the banking crisis is entering a new stage, as lenders succumb to large amounts of toxic loans and securities they bought from other banks.

Federal officials on Thursday were poised to seize Guaranty Financial Group Inc., in what would be the 10th-largest bank failure in U.S. history, and broker a sale of the Texas bank to Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria SA of Spain. Guaranty’s woes were caused by its investment portfolio, stuffed with deteriorating securities created from pools of mortgages originated by some of the nation’s worst lenders.

Guaranty owns roughly $3.5 billion of securities backed by adjustable-rate mortgages, with two-thirds of the loans in foreclosure-wracked California, Florida and Arizona, according to the company’s latest report. Delinquency rates on the holdings have soared as high as 40%, forcing write-downs last month that consumed all of the bank’s capital.

Guaranty is one of thousands of banks that invested in such securities, which were often highly rated but ultimately hinged on the health of the mortgage industry and financial institutions. “Under most scenarios, they were good and prudent investments — as long as we didn’t have a housing or banking crisis,” says John Stein, president and chief operating officer at FSI Group LLC, a Cincinnati company that invests in financial institutions.

It’s SOL time for Guaranty, thanks to the housing and banking crisis they never expected to have…

(View Full Image)
Texas-based Guaranty Financial Group was crippled by investing in securities issued by other lenders.

Texas-based Guaranty Financial Group was crippled by investing in securities issued by other lenders.

Texas-based Guaranty Financial Group was crippled by investing in securities issued by other lenders.

Texas-based Guaranty Financial Group was crippled by investing in securities issued by other lenders.

(All financiers need to write this on the black board 100 times until they have learned their lesson…)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-08-20 23:34:37

* The Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* AUGUST 20, 2009, 10:44 P.M. ET

Big Government, Big Recession

There’s no evidence for the theory that state spending has shortened this or any other slowdown.

By ALAN REYNOLDS

So it seems that we aren’t going to have a second Great Depression after all,” wrote New York Times columnist Paul Krugman last week. “What saved us? The answer, basically, is Big Government. . . . [W]e appear to have averted the worst: utter catastrophe no longer seems likely. And Big Government, run by people who understand its virtues, is the reason why.

This is certainly a novel theory of the business cycle. To be taken seriously, however, any such explanation of recessions and recoveries must be tested against the facts. It is not enough to assert the U.S. economy would have experienced a “second Great Depression” were it not for the Obama stimulus plan.

Even those who think government borrowing is a free lunch can’t possibly believe the government has already done enough “stimulus spending” to explain the difference between depression and recovery.

The relative brevity of recessions before the New Deal is particularly surprising since the U.S. economy was then dominated by farming and manufacturing—industries far more prone to nasty cyclical surprises than today’s service-based economy.

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, nobody thought the government could or should do anything except stand aside and let the mistakes of business and banking be fixed by those who made them. There were no Keynesian plans to borrow and spend our way out of recessions. And bankers had no Federal Reserve to bail them out until 1913. Yet recessions after the Fed was created soon turned out to be much deeper than before (1920-21, 1929-33, 1937-38) and often more persistent.

It’s clear that U.S. history does not support the theory that Big Government means shorter and milder recessions. In reality, recessions always ended without government prodding, long before anyone heard of Keynes and long before the Fed existed. What’s more, recessions ended more quickly before the New Deal’s push for Big Government than they have in the past three decades. The economy’s natural recuperative powers before the 1930s proved superior to recent tinkering by Big Government economists, politicians and central bankers.

 
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