In The Suburbs
by the Mysterious Flying MisoR™
From the Reason Foundation, October 2001:
Older Suburbs: Crabgrass Slums or New Urban Frontier?
“Since the 1950s, suburbia has represented middle-class success and the fulfillment of the ‘American Dream.’ More than three-quarters of America’s new population growth has occurred in the suburbs. Indeed, more than half of all Americans now live in suburbs, a higher proportion than any other industrialized nation. More than 80 percent of all demand for office space and new jobs occurs in the suburbs. Between 1988 and 1998, office space in suburbia grew 120 percent, eight times the rate in traditional center cities.
“These communities are far more diverse than commonly perceived and, while some are clearly in decline, many are thriving, both demographically and economically. Indeed, in many ways, the rebirth of the suburban community—like the earlier rebirth of the urban core itself—testifies to the changing nature of the new economy and the remarkable ability of people to find new uses for older things.
“An analysis of the San Fernando Valley, a middle-class suburb north of the Santa Monica Mountains in Los Angeles County, provides a case in point. Developed as a bedroom community beginning in the early 20th century, the Valley is the archetype of midopolis. After a period of decline, vacancy rates for prime office buildings have fallen from 18 percent to 12 percent, and net occupied office rental space has increased by 400,000 square feet. By the end of the 1990s, job creation in the Valley outstripped the rate for Los Angeles County as the Valley employed more than half of the region’s media and entertainment industry. More than 5,000 small, specialized creative firms service the region’s ‘cultural-industrial complex.’ As a result, the residential market remains strong as apartment vacancy rates have fallen from the double digits in 1996 to under 5 percent in 2000. Meanwhile, home prices have remained relatively modest by Southern California standards, ranging from $200,000 to $300,000.”
From the Federal Bureau of Investigation:
“Gang migration from larger cities to suburban and rural areas is an ongoing concern for law enforcement. According to analysis of NDTS 2008 data, the percentage of law enforcement agencies in the United States reporting gang activity in their jurisdictions increased from 45 percent in 2004 to 58 percent in 2008. Moreover, the percentage of jurisdictions reporting gang activity during this time frame increased in each of the seven NGIC/GangTECC regions; however, the most significant increases were in the East and Southeast Regions, most likely the result of the migration of gang members from urban areas such as New York, New York; Chicago, Illinois; and Los Angeles, California, to smaller jurisdictions in these regions.
“Gang migration from urban areas has led to the recruitment of new, younger gang members in many suburban and rural communities. According to the most recent biennial School Crime Supplement to the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) National Crime Victimization Survey, the percentage of suburban students ages 12-18 who reported that gangs were present at school during the previous 6 months increased 17 percent from 2003 to 2005 after remaining stable from 2001 to 2003, and the percentage of rural students reporting likewise increased 33 percent from 2003 to 2005 after decreasing (8%) from 2001 to 2003. In comparison, percentages of both total students and urban students reporting gangs present at school increased steadily from 2001 to 2005 (20% and 24%, respectively).
“U.S.-based gang members are increasingly involved in cross-border criminal activities, particularly in areas of Texas and California along the U.S.–Mexico border. Much of this activity involves the trafficking of drugs and illegal aliens from Mexico into the United States and considerably adds to gang revenues. Further, gangs are increasingly smuggling weapons from the United States into Mexico as payment for drugs or to sell for a significant profit.
“Most regions in the United States will experience increased gang membership, continued migration of gangs to suburban and rural areas, and increased gang-related criminal activity. These increases are largely the result of the continued expansion of gang-operated criminal networks. Better-organized urban gangs will continue to expand their criminal networks into new market areas in suburban and rural locations, where they can absorb unaffiliated local gangs or use violence to intimidate them.”
From the Orlando Sentinel:
“… now that the former bus driver and his roommate have lost their jobs, had their water shut off and found themselves facing foreclosure, suburbia has become a dead-end street.
“The two men represent the extreme of what experts describe as a new ‘outer edge’ of poverty in remote suburbs hit hard by foreclosures. Fueled by ‘subprime’ mortgages that made new homes suddenly affordable for those who otherwise might not have qualified, outlying communities mushroomed during the middle of this decade.
“Wentworth’s roommate recently enraged neighbors by walking the streets with a hand-lettered sign that pleaded for gas money to make the 20-mile round trip for a loaf of bread and boxes of macaroni and cheese. The same remoteness that drew them to the community that straddles Polk and Osceola counties has left them stranded in a sparsely furnished house. The nearest bus stop is a two-hour walk. Existing without running water for more than a week, they have no church or emergency housing within seven miles. Every day they face the prospect of losing power and cell-phone service, which would further isolate them. ‘I would like to stay here. But in the dark, with no light, no water, no phone?’ said Wentworth, 42. ‘… I’ve got no place to go.’
“Some of the new suburbanites are losing their jobs as unemployment nears 9 percent, and they’re losing their homes as adjustable-rate mortgages double their monthly payments. Most of the 7,700 foreclosure filings reported for Metro Orlando in February by RealtyTrac Inc. were in outlying areas that don’t have the social-service safety nets that have long served needy residents in towns and cities.
“Metro Orlando’s outer edge is a ring of foreclosures in neighborhoods built in recent years, often on old orange groves. Wentworth liked the countryside setting and the prospect of getting a new house with a front porch and three bedrooms for $230,000. … Three years after the purchase, only a couple of potted plants sit on the porch. Darkened windows and weedy yards pockmark Poinciana and other almost-new neighborhoods in Volusia, Lake and Osceola counties. Houses near Wentworth’s are going for half what he paid three years ago.
“His house on Superior Court is scheduled to be sold at auction April 2. The one next door sits vacant after neighbors abandoned it, ripped the air-conditioning unit off its pad and hauled it away.
“Wentworth and his roommate made choices that contributed to their predicament. They pinned their existence on a subprime loan with payments that escalated from $765 to more than $1,400 over three years. Health problems and long commutes interfered with jobs. And the English-only speakers could not qualify for a number of jobs that sought bilingual workers.
“Wearing a gray, stained T-shirt with the slogan “Turistas Go Home,” Wentworth said that what gets him out of bed in the mornings is the hope of landing a job. He has filled out applications at school districts and tourist attractions, giving prospective employers his roommate’s cell-phone number even though it could be cut off for lack of payment at any time. Short of getting a job, he said, he’d be happy if he could get to the nearest RaceTrac service station because he has a coupon for a free cup of coffee. The only problem, he said, is he doesn’t have $2 for gas to make the 36-mile round trip.”
And, in other news: How to Raise Chickens in the Suburbs for Eggs
I guess its time for a section 8 subdivision….then the county will have to provide services to the downtrodden
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The nearest bus stop is a two-hour walk.
Shoot, in 2006, there was a new sub in Cornville AZ that had FB ads in the paper saying “accepting section 8 renters.” This development was the first one I ever shot photos of for the HBB gallery. And they have a golf course.
They are still building houses there, of course.
During the bubble, Tampa and St. Petersburg re-located modest number of Section 8 renters to some of the new developments in South Hillsborough County. Spoke to one lady at the local health clinic who was trying to figure out the bus route to get to her job in Tampa. These people were re-located out of “urban renewal” developments, which were condemned for re-development, which in some cases never took place.
IMO, they have been moving Section 8ers to the burbs because that’s what the suburban landlords want. Of course it has nothing to do with helping disabled ppl; who would ever do a thing like that? The LLs can’t get enough tenants for their overpriced, middle-of-nowhere houses, so they go begging for a Section 8 subsidy.
“The LLs can’t get enough tenants for their overpriced, middle-of-nowhere houses, so they go begging for a Section 8 subsidy.”
And that’s exactly what happened here. There were infestors buying up multiple units in new developments and when they couldn’t flip the houses or townhouses, and couldn’t rent for what they needed to cover their mortgages, along came the Section 8ers.
Same thing happening in once upper middle class east Ventura County (Thousand Oaks/Westlake Village) area, just N of Los Angeles County. Now we have lots of section 8, day laborers hanging out, Spanish stores on the blvd, and tagging and gangs. The San Fernando Valley (now a thriving gang central) has moved north.
Even, once affluent Agoura Hills, just so of here in Los Angeles County has LL’s who went section 8.
Section 8 for those Americans in need, there is a waiting list. Drop an anchor, and it becomes an urgency.
The burbs are changing in So Ca. Can’t wait to see what the future holds. Ain’t going to be pretty.
As my husband says, you don’t get mugged in a Jewish neighborhood. (He’s Irish, just observant-no pun intended.)
I think illegal immigration really exploded with along with the housing bubble. In this area, illegals would first get farm employment. Although low wage, this would entitle them to tax-payer subsidized ag-worker housing. We have four, count ‘em, FOUR of those in this area. See, now, when it’s subsidized by the taxpayer, these housing developments have pools, tot-lots and little jitneys to bus the residents back and forth to their jobs, the clinics, schools, etc. Legal residency? Don’t ask, don’t tell.
Around here, the days of sub-standard shotgun shack farm worker housing are long gone. That housing used to be paid for by the farm or ag company. But agri-business caught wise and got the taxpayer to pick up the cost of housing, medical care, etc. for their workers.
But, once the illegal workers have their housing subsidies, then the real fun begins. Next, they drop as many anchors as they can, because they get government money for each child until 18 years of age. Then papi decides “eff this, I ain’t pickin’ no stinkin’ strawberries”, and he goes off and gets a construction or landscaping job or whatever will pay him better. Of course, the family still gets to keep the ag housing. Don’t ask, don’t tell.
Now agri-business starts screaming about how they don’t have enough low-wage farm workers. Here comes another wave. And more housing built for them. Wash, rinse, repeat.
What’s really crazy is that farm jobs have DECREASED in this area, due to development. But they built two brand spankin’ new farmworker housing developments during the bubble. Go figure.
I just want to mention here that many of our military service men & women qualify for section 8. A married marine with two kids qualifies for food stamps as well. We hosted many marines when we lived in Oceanside for holidays, BBQ’s etc. Many said they couldn’t get base housing for families but can’t afford much off base either. It was all about section 8 for them.
Thanks for the clarification, Suzy. I did not know that. But the again, you’re talking Oceanside, CA for gosh sakes. Most of the service people here in the Tampa Bay area can easily afford local housing, especially these days. In fact, there are many complexes that roll out the red carpet for them.
BTW, at a time or two in my life, I’ve “qualified” for Section 8. Never took it though. Didn’t want to go through the headache.
palmetto
I hear ya loud and clear. Look, I judge people by the content of their character, and to tell you the truth, I am not impressed.
Entitlement attitudes really bother me.
Oxnard, Ca. (huge strawberry area)is down the freeway from where I live. The crime rate is soaring there, and it happens to be a farming area turned suburbs in parts.
Suzyk
Thank your husband for serving. Military should get huge discounts on a SFH. They more than earned it. We honor them, but they should be paid better.
People who need section 8 in So Ca ( L A & Ventura Counties), who deserve it, are being squeezed out of the opportunity by those who don’t deserve it, but did the anchor baby thing. America, needs to take care of our own first.
“America, needs to take care of our own first.”
Whew, I’m tellin’ ya, wipeout. Of course, I’m one of those that feels military families should be cared for, cradle to gave. And if a gal or a chap doesn’t want to work after serving, and wants to just go fishing or something, they should be entitled. JMO.
I just want to mention here that many of our military service men & women qualify for section 8. A married marine with two kids qualifies for food stamps as well. We hosted many marines when we lived in Oceanside for holidays, BBQ’s etc. Many said they couldn’t get base housing for families but can’t afford much off base either. It was all about section 8 for them.
Oceanside, San Diego, San Fran, the desert, all a little steep for their needs.
And Palmy, cradle to grave, while I don’t begrudge that idea, they do get health care, education, and cheap loans guaranteed. My dad still claims he is broke. So what gives?
In the 70s (now I don’t know, but suspect it is still the same) if you graduated from college and enlisted, you were immediately enlisted as an officer, and you could be sent to medical school, dental school, law school, then return after to serve 4+ yrs of duty to repay that opportunity.
I suspect it is still available. And certainly if you are an officer right out of the shoot, you do get paid more.
OT - For those who are anywhere in the vicinity of the LA wildfires, I hope you are OK. I pray for your safety, preservation of assets, and peace of mind.
I was closer into the fire area yesterday, and the air quality was awful. The material things can be replaced. I hope no loss of life or health occurs.
I can only imagine the fights with homeowner insurance carriers for any losses. I met people who have had losses in past firestorms, who are fighting insurance companies still.
As a San Diegan watching the news stories with trepidation, I say, “There but by the grace of God go I.”
I’m not unsympathetic to CA, since Florida commits some of the same sins. Overbuilding. Overpolluting. Depleting water resources. Overpopulating. Cutting down old growth forests that produced moisture. Gee, no one could have seen this coming.
You forgot some (this list is also by no means all-inclusive): building in places where buildings just shouldn’t go, building on top of inherently unstable ecosystems, poorly managing the existing ecosystem (in its current state, compromised or not) in favor of development, poorly planning additional development, and systematically removing erosion-stopping plants and trees.
California development in fire zones and mudslide areas, many Eastern coastal communities, Midwestern towns on floodplains — all of them repeatedly make the same errors, which are largely based on the premise that man holds dominion over nature — if I can build there, why shouldn’t I? And why shouldn’t I rebuild there if my home is destroyed?
Those whom the gods would punish, they first make proud.
ET-Chicago & palmetto
No truer words spoken.
JPL/NASA Engineering, is in the La Canada/Flintridge area, I believe the biggest fire area. They saved it!
: building in places where buildings just shouldn’t go,
And then they wonder why all the bears,mtn lions, bobcats, skunks,coyotes etc- wander around the pools and backyards of homes built up into the mtns. Why do these natural animals roam in their territory. Now we have mcmansions everywhere for the View.. but get out of my trash bin.
See it on the news throughout the spring/summer in S.Cal.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
The largest lenders and banks were bailed out and engineered to become larger. Freddie/Fannie, Goldman sacks, BOA, CITI,
AIG was bailed out because they are insuring the assets of Goldman Sacks, BOA, CITI, and probably FREDIE/Fannie.
Lehman bros, was allowed to fail because they were competition for Goldman Sacks. Thus more market share for Goldman sacks.
Freddie/Fannie are still in place because Goldman sacks, BOA and CITi still need someone to pawn off any of their newly generated mortgages.
Goldman sacks, BOA and CITI were engineered to come out on top, although they were just as guilty and lost more money than Wamu, and Indy mac and country wide. Thanks to uncle sam, they were encouraged to buy them up, with Gov. insured assets and losses, 0 % perfered loan rates from the Federal Reserve. Competitors were allowed to go under, thus giving preferance to the bailed out bunch listed above, whom I will now call the “Big three”.
It seems to me the Fed and OBama/Bush used the current crisis to engineer the supremacy of the big three. The Gov. chose their survival and has now growen them larger.
For the elite group listed above, their loses were socialized and their profits privitized. Their growth engineered and organized by the Federal Reserve and U.S. Congress and two US Presidents.
If I have missed something or I am wrong somewhere please correct me.
Yer preachin’ to the choir here, Greg.
I don’t know. Prof. Bear has been telling us that these are solid institutions that have weathered the storm and are well positioned to benefit from the coming recovery.
I have?
I think Lehigh is being sarcastic and referring to some of the “green shoots” articles you’ve posted from the MSM.
“Wearing a gray, stained T-shirt with the slogan “Turistas Go Home,” Wentworth said that what gets him out of bed in the mornings is the hope of landing a job. He has filled out applications at school districts and tourist attractions”.
I hope this mental giant wasn’t wearing that shirt when applying at the tourist attractions.
Exactly my thought when I read it. The dichotomy of it jumped off the page.
I must admit I share the same sentiments about tourists. Tourism begets equity banditry. And there goes the neighborhood.
Exeter, does that mean you never go anywhere for a vacation?
All the time, but I actually leave instead of burdening the natives….. like you did.
It’s a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn’t buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 30% yearly price increase.
Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
This asset bubble is different than all of the others - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas
No, in 15 years, Hondas will cost $20,000,000. But you’ll still be able to buy a house in Detroit for $1. That’s my prediction anyway.
So you’re saying that I should stock up on Hondas?
“It’s a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn’t buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 30% yearly price increase.
Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.”
That is my all time favorite line from my favorite movie of all times.
Do you remember the science fiction movie they created about how aliens came and made everyone that owned or bought houses chant those lines.
But that was a long time ago, some people may remember, but lots will forget and then one day they will probably have a re-make of it.
I am enjoying watching the new preliminary tax bills come out for the Palm Beach county.
The palm Beach post was nice enough to to create this “what is you home worth application:
http://projects.palmbeachpost.com/homevalues/view/00414229000001400/
It is a ton of fun to play.
Yeah those of you HBBers who think you will escape looting and rioting in the suburbs better be in northern Vermont or NH. I have a book I bought a few years ago (over at my Phoenix address) which goes through an analysis of where you can be sure to survive various disasters in the U.S. It appears those northeastern fringes are very safe. I think it mentions the Ozarks too.
If you are in a large metro area though, may as well stay put. If you don’t have a garage, rent a storage unit and store dried food and water. Most storage businesses forbid you to do so, but they cannot see what you bring inside of the boxes can’t they?
Also large cities have gold bullion dealers. I know of one here in Los Angeles that does huge cash transactions every day, buying and selling. Selling bullion is very easy and you get your cash within five minutes.
Large cities have the best medical care. In the rural areas you have to “suture” self
and you better have a young steady aim with that gun because LE won’t help you “atoll.”
Northeast “safe”?
You’re dreaming. Remember, those areas you mention are less than 2.5hrs drive from Boston, 3.5hrs from NYC and it’s populated suburbs.
“Northeast “safe”?”
LOL. Just ask anyone who lives in or near Hartford or New Haven how safe it is. Maybe the backwoods of Maine would be OK.
Palmy, Maine “backwoods” is still 2-3 hours away from Boston, Worcester, Springfield and other declining cities.
Oh yea….. don’t forget the real beaut…..BRIDGEPORT.
Palmy It used to be downtown Stamford was the ghetto, and we all went to bridgeport to see bands when i was a teenager
Then Stamford did its throw out the ghetto bums so it went up the line Norwalk Bridgeport, Waterbury, New Haven Hartford, i guess Springfield is next, seemed to bypass Danbury though
Right on, dj. I well remember Stamford back in the day. Danbury didn’t get hit quite as hard with the ghettoization, but that’s because the local gov has fought it hard, and is taking a beating in the process.
I went to Brien McMahon HS…It wasn’t a bad school… blue collar but not ghetto, Norwalk High had all the rich kids and the latest toys
“blue collar but not ghetto,”
Exactly. Some great middle class neighborhoods in the area, with hard working folk and decent families.
When were you there? Do you remember the Terrace with the HUGE sunken dance floor?? My parents danced there before I was born, they had NO liquor license back then Byob.. so they stayed open all night….. And I dj’ed there back in the 90’s
Former Terrace Club Owner Opens Palms Nightclub
Peter Healy, Staff Writer
Terrace Club customers responded to the closing of the venerable Stamford nightclub last December as if it were a funeral.
But those loyal fans can stop mourning and dance once again at a reincarnation of the Terrace — The Palms nightclub at 78 W. Park Place in downtown Stamford.
Nelson Solis, former co-owner of the Terrace Club at 1938 W. Main St., opened the 5,600-square-foot Palms on June 30; its first ballroom dance night is scheduled for tomorrow.
Solis said he couldn’t stay idle after the Terrace Club’s landlord raised the rent far above what he and former partner Chris Donahue could afford.
“After the Terrace Club closed, a lot of people were looking for a place to dance,” Solis said while giving a visitor a tour of the freshly remodeled Palms.
He chose the site between Curley’s Diner and the popular Thirsty Turtle bar because “this place is in the heart of the town.”
The Palms space, which can hold 300 people, housed La Macarena restaurant until it closed in April.
Solis oversaw a massive renovation, which included a new ceiling, bar and oak floors. Four columns separate the 1,000-square-foot dance floor from the dining and bar areas. Dancing space can be increased by removing chairs and tables.
As Solis showed his visitor around, disco lights of various colors darted back and forth on the beige stucco walls.
Plastic palm trees line the sidewalk outside the club. In the warmer months, the club can add tables to a sidewalk and outdoor patio in the back. Tables can be placed in the street when the city shuts West Park Place for outdoor concerts at Columbus Park.
The Palms has an event schedule similar to the old Terrace Club. Tuesday features country-western music that starts at 6:30 p.m. and includes a buffet dinner. Wednesday, ballroom dance night, also features a buffet and a 6:30 starting time. Antonio Rosa is the ballroom DJ.
Retro disco starts at 5 p.m. Thursdays. Latin American music begins at 8 o’clock Friday and Saturday nights, with a salsa lesson by Eddie Perez each Saturday. Brazilian music and dancing starts at 8 p.m. Sundays. Friday afternoon happy hours with a buffet and DJ will start at 5 p.m.
Customers can rent the club for special events such as weddings and anniversary parties, Solis said. The restaurant currently serves appetizers and will start serving Latin American cuisine for lunch and dinner later this month, said Solis, a native of Guatemala.
But can the Palms re-create the mystique of the Terrace Club, which opened in 1939?
“Everyone would like to see something that lives up to camaraderie of the Terrace Club,” said Anita Zobel, a longtime Terrace Club patron and retired high school teacher. “No place has come close yet.”
“Nelson put a lot into it,” said Frank Greco of Stamford, another ex-Terrace Club customer. “We are sorry to hear he didn’t keep the Terrace Club name. “Stamford needs a ballroom and we will support him.”
DANCE - LATIN - COUNTRY - BALLROOM - BRAZILIAN - CONTESTS - CONCERTS - GIVEAWAYS - DRINK SPECIALS - LIVE EVENTS
Well, I wuz somewhat south in Greenwich, so went to Gulliver’s, before it burned. And a little before your time, we’re talking 1970s here.
I wish I could remember the name of that big barn-like place in Westport where Roomful of Blues and Widespread Depression used to play. I’m drawing a blank. Westport Playhouse?
Eric Carr Gulliver’s Fire 1974 Press
Most fans know that Eric Carr survived a fire in a club where one of his pre-Kiss bands was playing, but two band members perished. Here are transcriptions of three articles about the incident…
http://thekissarmy.com/forums/index.php?topic=20291.0
Yes there was a club across from the playhouse, I was there 1991-92 we held the westport Unitarians singles dances on sunday nights
http://www.westportplayhouse.org/
I was thinking the same exeter.
Besides some people are in those areas because they love the outdoors, some because it’s home but some because they want to fly under the radar.
I’m right here in Sitting Ducksville at the moment, glad to be a renter who can move if things start looking grim.
But hey, that’s the price of glorious globalism, eh, Bill?
Yup! For decades Americans used up world resources and the armed forces encouraged dictators to keep their people wearing rags instead of establishing free markets. Now other people in other places want to join the middle class.
You don’t like that to happen Palmy. Keeping our jobs and manfacturing here will only be possible if we keep other nations from freeing up their economy. Can’t have one without the other.
“Now other people in other places want to join the middle class.”
Like Ecuador, which is doing so by practicing some pretty strict “protectionism” to the end of benefitting its people. Working out pretty well for them, too. Good on ‘em.
Charity begins at home.
“You don’t like that to happen Palmy.”
That’s a bald-faced lie, and you know it, Bill. I like to see people prosper and enjoy life. Be careful what you wish for in terms of globalism, Bill, because in a globalist society, there’s no such thing as “free trade” or free anything, including deciding what you want to do for a living. Someone else will decide for you, and it may be that “someone” may decide that a fine specimen of manhood such as yourself is more suited to pulling rickshaws in Hong Kong than some chicken chested but bright engineer from Chindia, and off you go, especially if there’s a glut of engineers and a shortage of rickshaw pullers.
Globalism, at this time, would have to be managed by some form of totalitarianism, to which I am vehemently opposed.
How do we keep other nations from “freeing up” their economies? If other nations want to be free, then let them. It’s not necessary for us to sacrifice ourselves in the process.
V, I keep trying to get this point across to people, but I might as well talk to a brick wall.
The US seems to be wallowing in an orgy of guilt and propitiation at this time. Instead of going after the corporate miscreants, govmint spooks and politicians who have created havoc in other countries.
Isn’t free trade a two-way street? How can one party have ‘free trade’ and the other party not? (ie the US and China) I favor free trade with any country that returns the favor. Restricted trade with those that restrict us likewise.
Well, that’s the whole idea of contracts, a meeting of the minds.
But we don’t protect our stuff at all. Other countries do.
No two way street at all.
I think you’re trying to be clever. But I can’t tell.
“Selling bullion is very easy and you get your cash within five minutes.”
Provided you don’t have to travel through a food riot to transact. Yeah, if things get that bad, I doubt you’ll see your cash or your bullion, unless of course you keep it in your possession.
“Also large cities have gold bullion dealers. I know of one here in Los Angeles that does huge cash transactions every day, buying and selling. Selling bullion is very easy and you get your cash within five minutes.”
Have you seen Aladinsane at the gold bullion dealer?
We probably crossed paths. Him selling on the same days I was buying.
Agree law enforcement won’t help in rural areas. That’s why we actually have NO police in this town. (There’s a county sheriff, long wait if you have to call that office.) However, one does know a lot of the neighbors, and that’s the best defense.
If Iraq is any model, it seems that tight-knit neighborhoods, rural or urban or suburban, are the safest places in times of strife. I think a lot of people’s prejudices are represented when we postulate whether cities or rural areas will be safer in times of collapse. The urbanites think the countryside will revert to barbarism, and the country folk think the same of the cities. I’ll go with a friendly neighborhood, country or city.
Cabelas is having a ‘Free Shipping’ event until Tuesday. Load up on ‘00buck’ for any home invasion. You can even buy military loads. I had to Prisoner Chase once in a while at Ft. Leonard Wood when I was stationed there. Shot at wooden apple boxes for practice. ‘ Shoot low’, the sgt. said. Tears hell out of the boxes. What it would do to a man ???
Load up on ‘00buck’ for any home invasion.
I’d have to dig to find the article, but I remember reading that #1 buck is the best load for home defense. Personally I have one #4 followed by #1. The first shot should do the trick with less risk of over-penetration, and if not, the second shot most definitely will.
Thanks drumminj, I’ll take your advice. One #4, then follow with 5 #00bucks. I’ll have to take the plug out to get the other three shells in!
btw, here’s ‘an’ article showing that conclusion..I’m not sure if it’s the article I read a while back:
http www chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm
Great job yet again, Flying Person!
I especially approve of the helpful article on chicken raising. Coincidentally, I was eating a mound of wondrous scrambled eggs, mostly chickens and one large goose egg, as I read, all of them raised happily in the woods by the vet up the road, and they really are vastly superior eggs.
I encourage everyone to give your friends copies of this article right away*! Then you can all eat delicious eggs!
I won’t even eat store-boughten eggs anymore, and that is really saying something, coming from someone who once ate road-kill on an extended camping trip in southern Utarr. (I get hungry easy and boy am I a bear when I’m hungry. At least I cooked it. I ain’t a savage.)
Speaking of camping and bears, I’m off to the Olympic rainforest for a day or two. See you guys later. Unless I get et by a bear, or if it takes me longer than a day or two to eat a bear, in which case, see you in a week.
*I heartily encourage alllll my friends to get boats and hot-tubs, as well, and to take up useful hobbies such as plumbing and dentistry.
I ate a goose egg once, but I thought it tasted funny. Seemed overly fatty to me. Might be good for baking, though. I dunno.
How’s your duck doing Big V?
Is that short for ‘geoduck’?
On Wikipedia:
(pronounced /ˈɡuː.iːdʌk/ “gooey duck”[1])
I had to move, so I ended up giving P. Pearsey von Peepwig away to some other people. He should be happier there though. They have kids and rabbits and chickens and dogs. Pearsey loves to play with kids and dogs. I’m sure he’ll tolerate the others.
That’s good to hear. Loved his name
Are you still living in the East Bay?
coming from someone who once ate road-kill on an extended camping trip in southern Utarr. (I get hungry easy and boy am I a bear when I’m hungry. At least I cooked it. I ain’t a savage.)
Why did you et the road-kill, did you see it get kilt? so you knew it was fresh?
Normally you check road kill for maggots. If there aren’t any maggots, the road kill is less than 24 hours old: that’s how long it takes fly eggs to hatch.
I’ll have to admit, I did snag a fawn off the highway one morning. I was cold and the fawn was still warm. Dang that was good eats.
I’m getting this visual of Olygal huntin’ bear with a switch…
Better than huntin’ bare without a stitch.
That’d be a better visual, though!
Happy moldering! Eat some mushrooms for us. Beware of the raccoon. If you see tortilla wrappers, turn, and run for your life.
That article was in March and since then the plummet continues unabated. What she did not say is that these guys bought at the end of the world in a phase that was 90% investor driven.
I was there a few days ago and every other home is vacant and the balance rented. Real numbers now are 1/3 of prices 3 years ago. Several sales I pulled were homes that sold in 2006 for 300K are now say $78,000.
Poinciana is our Cape Coral.
What did I see today in the LA Times (wash out my mouth)? $43/ft2 in Palmdale, Ca. Section 8 here I come!!!
Does it come with Bullet proof glass?
and razor wire to protect your 15 year old car with GPS, and ghetto stereo?
Lancaster is almost as low! I suspect the decision is made on the ‘heat index’. 110 in Palmdale and 109 in Lancaster. hehehahahaha
I posted this over in bits, but it is perfect for this post. Dade City is a lovely little rural Florida town, with lots of charm and quiet. Until it became infested with illegals and the cartel members that followed them. And here’s the result. I saw the story on the local news. These turds were ensconced in the midst of an orange grove, in a nice little house, on a dirt road. A place where I wouldn’t have minded living, until folks like these started populating the area.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story/Pasco-agents-make-largest-cocaine-bust-in-county/TXsYoC03IEykJTH_feJtdg.cspx
Yeah, if you think about it, it’s probably easier for ppl to get away with this sort of thing in the burbs, where their neighbors can’t hear them talking through the walls. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that so many houses in the burbs these days are owned by long-distance landlords who really don’t give a flying fork what happens to the hood, since they will sell in a couple years anyway and move to the Bahamas.
V, Dade City is an interesting little town. Lovely shady streets with old houses that have wide front porches, many of them kept up very nicely. Charming Main Street. Very much a farming area, mostly citrus, vegetables, blueberries, etc. As a result, it attracted a lot of migrant workers, both legal and illegal. A part of it known as “Tommy Town” has become like the Wild West, with the occasional body of a Mexican national turning up in the gutter outside a bar, or in an orange grove, not to mention also the occasional shoot-out. I was shocked when I went up there not long ago and picked up the little local fishwrap and read a number of drug and violent crime related items that never get reported on the Tampa Bay area news.
I’m willing to bet real money these drug dealers are not an isolated case.
Wait a second …
MisoR? RealtoR? Hahahahha! That’s freaking hilarious.
LOL -I am a readOR and occasional postOR.
It has just struck me after reading this that many of these suburban communities are just craving the arrival of people. Any people. Illegals anyone? Oh, the irony! (Not the druggies of course, just the hard working ones).
Feh. And what are those “hard working ones” gonna do in the suburbs when there’s no work for them? Just ask folks in places like Manassas (Virginia suburbs) what illegals have done for those communities.
or when gas goes past $4.00 again. It is already $3.15 around here and climbing.
OT, but I thought I’d check in from St Johns AZ, near the NM border. I’ll report later if they have a housing bubble here. I saw a sign that said most affordable ranch land in AZ. And a sign at the hardware store that said, “don’t ride a new trail at full trot.”
You be careful out there Ben.
Thanks, I am always pretty careful in the boondocks.
OK, so I said I’d report on the housing bubble in St Johns, AZ. This house I just pulled up to is a perfect example of how the HB isn’t one thing in all places. It’s actually a few miles outside of town, on a dirt county road. I pull up and it looks to be about 900 sq ft cinderblock, with both doors standing wide open. A big lot; maybe 2 or 3 acres of scrub. The paperwork says this is a major wall street firm’s home equity division. Now, I would guess the value of this place at about $1000 or less. So any amount loaned against it was a joke. (Appraisal fraud?) The few neighbors seem to be engaged in mostly used tire collecting. And raising donkeys and rabbits, which are themselves raising flies.
If a reporter out there wants to see what the housing bubble really is, I suggest taking a ride with me to this house and just show the world what a complete insanity this thing was. Well, off to put some locks on this bit of the ‘merican dream.
What? You’re not questioning my right as an American citizen to raise used tires, are ya? Why, Yosemite Sam would be ashamed of you, Ben.
They aren’t actually raising the tires, they seem to be collecting them. And these tires aren’t any good anymore, so I’m guessing they must be rare. The guy with the donkeys has about 25, mostly stacked againt a home-made, metal wind shield for the animals. The guy who lives in the old RV looks to have about 50 or more (in piles, here and there). I’m guessing that larger collection denotes his wealth. One poor bastard has only the few old tires on the 8 or 9 old vehicles he has parked by his trailer. The house I’m working on has a paltry 7 tires in the front “yard”. I suppose the owners must have forgotten to take them along.
It looks like some of these flies like me and wish to escape in my truck. We’ll see.
Ben:
Why not scoop up some of the animal feces so your newly adopted flies will have something to eat?
What, no skinny cur dogs slinking around, lapping up water from rusty cans? Of course, being AZ, I’d imagine water doesn’t stick around very long.
Actually, 2 skinny dogs did come check me out when I first pulled up. They were friendly and got bored and left.
LOL, Ben. The picture is now complete.
Hmmmm Lets see Ben has the company of Flies, lots of used Tires, skinny dawgs, tons of used vehicles, water from rusty cans, old RV’s, cinder block homes with doors wide open, scorching heat
but Ben where are da wimmen? you know those who are teeth challenged and whoa a fine young good looking man just happened to show up next door securing a major wall street firm’s home equity division?
And I wont talk about the donkeys.
, “don’t ride a new trail at full trot.”
Boy that sure makes one think twice!
Having ridden bareback in the boonies often.
Why would anyone raise chickens for eggs these days? I can’t think of another agricultural commodity that has appreciated less than eggs over the past decades. My mother grew up on a dairy farm in Central PA in the 1950s. Her chore as a girl was to feed the chickens and collect the eggs for sale at the local market. She told me they got $0.05 per egg back in the 1950s. Or $0.60 per dozen. And her family decided to give up chicken production and concentrate on dairy around 1959 because they weren’t making any money with eggs. Today, at my local Wal-Mart here in Texas I have seen eggs for as low as $0.89/dozen or about $0.07/egg. And even the high-end organic/free range eggs and the low-cholesterol Eggsland brand eggs are generally no more than about $2/dozen.
Tomatoes, lettuce, cabbage, peppers, green beans, peas. Those foods make sense to grow. They are often costly at the supermarket and cost very little to grow. But chickens? Seriously?
Yes, but you can EAT chickens and eggs. Excellent sources of protein.
Their thinking is If the SHTF you might not be able to get protein from the grocery store.
Hey, jerry, good to see ya! Been a while.
I agree with Kent. Their four eggs a week saves them a couple of bucks, seems like a lot of work for a tiny payoff.
(Correcting a post of mine that has yet to appear.)
I meant, their four eggs a day saves them a couple of bucks a week, agree with Kent the payoff is too small.
The payoff is small right now, but if there comes a time you can’t get eggs, these folks are in clover.
One of my fave books, written in the 1950s Cold War era, is “Alas, Babylon” by Pat Frank, about a group of people struggling to survive in northern Florida post nuclear war. Cultivating wild sugar cane became a big deal, since you could make liquor from it and liquor could be used for anesthetic, anti-septic, etc. Armadillos were good to eat. Citrus was like gold, whereas, right now, people have trees where fruit falls to the ground and rots.
I guess it’s just all accordin’.
ruit falls to the ground and rots.
If the Tree rats don’t hollow them out first and the fruit drops to the ground with a small hole and hollow.
I think I actually had 4 FULL grapefruits one yr, the rest.. empty.
But you could use them as pets too.
pets with benefits
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHHAHAHhahhahha.
hhhh.
“An analysis of the San Fernando Valley, a middle-class suburb north of the Santa Monica Mountains in Los Angeles County, provides a case in point.
…
As a result, the residential market remains strong as apartment vacancy rates have fallen from the double digits in 1996 to under 5 percent in 2000. Meanwhile, home prices have remained relatively modest by Southern California standards, ranging from $200,000 to $300,000.”
What is the vintage of this piece??? And how is that ’strong residential market’ holding out these days in the San Fernando Valley?
Drop in Valley home prices slowing down
HOUSING: Eight percent drop from a year ago is smallest slide in 19 months.
By Gregory J. Wilcox, Staff Writer
Updated: 08/20/2009 09:29:50 PM PDT
“October 2001″
D’oh…
Well, I’m at it again. Saw a house yesterday, went back today to the open house to let my mom see it and get her opinion. Called my realtor and said I want to make an offer.
List price was $239,000 - they dropped it to $237,500 (whoop de freakin’ do) where it is now.
Looked up local comps that sold over the summer. The average selling price/sq. ft. of the comps is $171. Sq. footages range from 1142 (this one) to 1614. I know the more sq. footage, the less PER sq. ft., but still this gives a general range to work with. This house has had some improvements made, but not enough to consider it anything more than average.
Based on that, my offer will be $196,000 with immediate settlement. My realtor is going to call the other realtor tomorrow, see if they’ve refused any offers yet, and we’ll go from there.
You and I know that it’s very likely similar houses will be selling for less in the future, but that’s not what they’re feeding the masses. My mom said she read an article today stating prices are going to start climbing again. It took a strong argument from me to convince her that’s not likely, but if she (who I consider to be smart and informed) buys into it, you know everyone else is. Meaning it’s very possible my offer won’t be accepted (if I even get to make it). But, I’m still going to try.
Stay tuned…
$171 per square foot? In 2009?!
Wow.
Sigh. And it is always at this point I feel compelled to post Charles Hugh Smith’s chart of the post-bubble decline, which so far is right on schedule.
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogaug06/post-bubble-symmetry.html
Recently sold homes in that zip: http://www.trulia.com/sold/19040_zip/
Now you see my frustration all these years!
geez, eastcoaster, what’s the rush? I’ve just posted Charles Hugh Smith’s chart again. If you could just hold off for a couple of years, you’ll be rewarded with even lower prices.
Heck, I wouldn’t mind having an abode of my own right now. If i were in a stable area, I’d probably be tempted to pull the trigger. But I want to see where this is going, how the communities shake out, etc. I’m in a retirement community sandwiched between two areas that are heavily infested with illegals and I’ve seen some of that crew “taking walks” around here. I have an uneasy feeling about it, so much as I might like to buy here, I’d like to see a couple of years go by to ensure the community is improving.
Houses are still selling here, but at the lower priced end. No one’s touching the over $100,000 properties, for the most part.
Oh, someone wrote an article predicting an increase in house prices in the near future? Well, golly gee, better go out and snap ‘em all up then, ’cause you know articles can’t ever be wrong or influenced by advertisers.
I have a relative who pulled the trigger just after the peak of the bubble. I’ve learned over the years that nothing I could say to them would dissuade them from a course of action, however ill-advised that course of action might be.
Well, they’re out of a high-paying job and paying way too much, as prices decline around them. My tongue’s about bitten through to keep from saying “I told you so”, but I’ve managed. I just sympathize a lot. Fortunately they have some savings put by.
Fortunately they have some savings put by.
Not for long…..unless they listen to you ..all mighty wise one!
I wasn’t influenced by the article, Big V - read my post.
I know. I was talking about your mom. Don’t get snippety with me, either. I hate it when people do that.
For your benefit, I hope your offer is rejected.
EC, Are you aware of the vast number of REO lists by banks of all sorts?
I tried to post a link to Trulia recent sales in the zip I’m considering (19040). My would-be offer (not made yet) would definitely be considered a low-ball and would be at about 2004 values. Charles Hugh Smith and iTulip both have that same graph and I go back to it over and over again. Honest-to-God, though, I cannot imagine prices returning to 1994 levels and beyond - in the Bay Area, yes - but not sure about here. Median income in this zip is around $65K (some of you may remember when I posted what high school teachers make in this area - up into the 6 figures). So median home price s/b about $195,000 (based on fundamentals).
I will sleep on it, still. My realtor may get back to me saying they’ve already rejected similar offers and if that’s the case, so be it.
Thanks, all.
“Charles Hugh Smith and iTulip both have that same graph and I go back to it over and over again. Honest-to-God, though, I cannot imagine prices returning to 1994 levels and beyond”
Can’t you see things are playing out according to graph? We’re just approaching the tail end of the sucker bottom, which is only months away from falling out. And why, for the luvvagod, can’t you imagine prices returning to 1994 levels and beyond? Japan had a similar event. We’re not immune.
My insurance agent, who has been doing business in this area for decades, predicted that the little concrete shacks I’m so fond of will be priced at $30,000-$50,000 before all is said and done. She’s been through the booms and the busts and has seen it all. We’re headed off a cliff. Especially if flu season turns out to be as grim as some are predicting.
Yeah… I’m just as disturbed by EC’s skepticism.
I can understand ec’s frustration, though. Just trying to make a convincing case for putting it off. My money’s on that graph, it’s amazing how events have been tracking with it so far.
So I’ve also posted my confusion on Facebook (yeah, I like Facebook - it’s my guilty pleasure). Anyway, posted the CH Smith link and almost immediately a realtor I know posts in response to the link, “Prices have risen 1.2% in the last 30 days according to NAR, but these statistics are based on national avgs and don’t necessarily apply to all regions. Sales were up 9.6% the past month, risen for 5 straight months, inventory has dropped, so price declines will slow and eventually stop. Foreclosures are still a growing problem, but the lower price ranges have been neutralized by the growth of first time buyers.”
I swear it sounded like she pulled out an NAR script or something to spout off these stats. I responded with, “Which all fits in with Phase 2. It’s not good for your industry to research or report anything other than optimism (and I don’t say that to be offensive - this is just why I can’t really discuss it with anyone who’s livelihood is market-dependent).”
Did I mention this woman is the single most annoying person on the planet? If she weren’t my best friend’s next door neighbor, I wouldn’t even give her the time of day.
Oh, and just got her response, “No offense taken, I was just quoting directly from updated statistics per NAR & the media. I have been really busy lately, selling listings quickly, at or very close to asking price and I personally have not experiences any appraisal issues with my listings, none at all since the new process came into effect. I am not familiar with this chart you have posted, but glad to hear it coincides with the info I stated. we are pushing for extension and expansion of tax credit, I personally am not sure expansion will be activated, but do believe the tax credit will be extended for first timers. Sice it was made public in many different forms that the credit can be monetized and no one but PHFA has begun doing that, I would think an extension is appropriate. There will not be a decision until Oct at the earliest, at least that’s what I am hearing.”
eastcoaster, do you go by that handle on fb?
With all the BS I get from neighbor’s with their stupid dogs .. the sounds, the smells, etc. Please, for the love of god, Don’t encourage people to buy chickens!!!! Suburban backyards are no places for these animals!!!! When you buy animals you are also making your neighbor “buy” them too. It’s getting to where you can’t even enjoy the peace and quiet of your own backyard anymore.
Chickens aren’t as annoying as dogs, though. I think roosters might be kind of annoying. I’m not sure.
Chickens don’t make much noise. I have a neighbor who owns several and I only rarely hear a quiet clucking. The key is no roosters…They will drive you crazy, unless you’re a predawn riser. And even then.
Tell me about it. Before I moved over here, while I was scoping the area out, I would come and stay with some friends who had a small farmette (5 acres) in a more rural part of the area. Used to get woken up by a rooster in the nabe.
LIGHTS outdoor lights that light up the entire yard and yours too.
I hate those. Even here in a gated neighborhood, a few condos have them on the outside and it bugs the %^&*()(*&*n out of me.
Why can’t ppl just get a motion detecting light, furpetesake.
Rachel dollar has started a weekly mortgage fraud videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HduSQRtSK-4
I’m impressed by the number of vacant commercial RE I see here in Northern NJ. Looks like Arizona is also particularly hard-hit.
by J. Craig Anderson - Aug. 26, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
The Valley’s commercial real-estate crisis isn’t just about buildings, it’s about everything and everyone inside.
The impact isn’t as easy to see as the fallout from the home-mortgage mess, with its sea of empty homes and for-sale signs, but it’s likely to become more noticeable to Valley consumers as the commercial crisis worsens this year, predicts Scottsdale consultant Robert Kline.
“It will affect them when they start to see their favorite hotel, restaurant or store go out of business,” said Kline, owner of R.W. Kline LLC. “This is also about jobs.”
Kline, a former vice president at Pulte Homes, is doing his best to help as many property owners as possible avoid foreclosure. He formed the company in May 2008 to assist commercial-property owners at risk of defaulting on their mortgages and has become a national expert on the subject.
Preventing commercial foreclosure benefits the people and businesses leasing space inside. The foreclosure process takes months and can result in temporary maintenance, security and insurance problems while the property changes hands.
Kline’s firm, which represents more than 300 commercial-property owners nationwide, attempts to negotiate better repayment terms and extend the length of a loan if it makes sense.
The government doesn’t have formal help for commercial-loan modifications as it does for home loans, but there is money in the Troubled Asset Relief Program to offset losses from bad commercial loans.
Kline’s company represents 27 Arizona commercial-property owners seeking loan modifications on about $960 million in debt.
Nationally, the country’s total outstanding commercial-mortgage debt exceeds $3.5 trillion, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association.
Two-thirds of the mortgages Kline is attempting to modify had been sold to the investment market as commercial mortgage-backed securities, effectively scattering ownership of those loans to the wind.
Nationally, about 20 percent of commercial mortgages are securitized, the Mortgage Bankers Association said.
“A CMBS loan is a much, much harder type of loan to work out,” Kline said, in part because the negotiator must track down all investors in the loan and get their approval.
An unprecedented number of securitized commercial mortgages will reach maturity in the fourth quarter, Kline said, forcing borrowers to pay off the loans or turn over the properties they bought or built on credit.
[...]
While I feel sorry for [insert name from anecdote here] and understand that most Americans are too stupid to balance a check-book let alone understand their mortgages, I feel that on a whole the country is simply getting what it deserves and asked for.
The US went on a drunken binge. What was called economic expansion was in reality a borrowing extravaganza in which thirty years of forward production was consumed in a frenzy of plasma tv’s, marble countertops, and Whole Foods organic fruits. An economy which is 70% consumption is an economy which consumes TWICE what it makes. It’s not sustainable.
Individuals are not to blame for being taken advantage of by Washington and Wall Street, but collectively we are to blame for endorsing and believing in the Get Rich Quick or Simply Borrow Until You Do lifestyles we live. Despite all evidence to the contrary we believe in Horatio Alger. We think what is good for Wall Street is good for us. We believe that Congress works for us.
We believe a lot of crap and when the shit hits the fan we are stunned that it blows back into our faces.
The bubble needs to be popped. People need to work at jobs which add value, not merely whipped topping to lattes. People need to save and invest in real industries. People need to buy smaller homes and smaller cars. People need to be educated and realistic.
Frankly, I think it’s too late. I understand the situation but am completely unsympathetic.
Home prices are way too high for So California. There is record-high unemployments, taxes thru the roof and yet the home prices will not drop. For the price you pay in So California, you can buy a mansion in any other state in the country. No one can afford to buy a house — no one !