Longing For Something We Shouldn’t Have Even Wanted
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “It’s the first stretch of increased buying since 2005, a frenzied time with fast-rising prices and go-go lending. Those unusual conditions - repeated in communities across the country - started a domino effect of economic woe, from foreclosures to bank failures to recession. Even with the recent upturn, sales in the Baltimore area are still less than half what they were at their peak in 2005. While the number of home sales has risen, prices are still falling. The average last month, just over $295,000, is 7 percent less than a year ago. And it’s $14,000 less than the average seller got in August 2005.”
“‘The fact is, if it’s priced right, it will sell,’ said Joseph T. “Jody” Landers III, executive vice president of the Greater Baltimore Board of Realtors. ‘It may take a little longer than it did two years ago, but it will sell. And if it’s priced wrong, it’ll sit forever.’”
“Emily and Bryan Brown purchased their Brewers Hill house, newly built with a garage, for $475,000 in 2006. Now they’re trying to sell because Bryan Brown was transferred to Florida in July. Asking price: $384,000 - $91,000 less than they bought it for. So far, no offers. Because their down payment was substantial, their asking price would allow them to walk away without bringing money to the settlement table. But not if they lower it further.”
“‘It’s very tight,’ said Emily Brown. If they get no takers, ‘we’re going to put it up for rent next month. … From there, I’m not sure what we’ll do. If we rent, we’ll take a loss monthly - that’s definite.’”
“Carolyn Capalbo, a real estate agent in Manassas who works in Prince William, Loudoun, Fairfax and Fauquier counties, said she has noticed a ’sharp shift’ in the past six months, as a swell of buyers, many looking to purchase their first home, have been jockeying for a smaller pool of houses. ‘It’s a seller’s market,’ Capalbo said. ‘We have a lot of relocation people who they feel like can come in and get the deal of the century but find themselves in competition over property, and they’re shocked.’”
“The market for luxury homes, concentrated in areas like Great Falls, has nearly ground to a halt. ‘There is an enormous inventory of upper-end houses on the market right now, by the market kind of speaking through its silence,’ said Vivian Lyons, a longtime real estate agent who is based in Great Falls but buys and sells homes from Leesburg to Bethesda to Arlington.”
“The problem with the high-end market, Lyons said, is with asking prices. With a small pool of buyers on the highest end of the market and an abundance of inventory, the only way to bring demand in line with the supply is by lowering prices, she said. ‘But sellers don’t want to hear it…There are very few buyers at the high end and the buyers that there are, are looking for value,’ she said, adding that sellers must price accordingly. ‘What sellers need to understand is that they don’t establish the price for a property, their agent doesn’t establish the price of a property, the market establishes the price.’”
“Mike Aubrey…spoke recently to Your Business about real estate and lowering one’s expectations. Q: What is it like telling someone their home isn’t worth what they think it is? A: People are very emotional about their homes. They have a lot of memories tied up. People respond very dramatically. Sometimes it comes with an awkward silence.”
“Q: What are the weird things people say about their homes? A: When I hear somebody say something that just doesn’t make great logical sense to me, I always respond with, ‘Really?’ People get very delusional about their own homes. People think their house is better than anything out there. With one couple, one of the comparable homes I showed was priced quite a bit less than their house. Same builder, same townhouse, had two very dramatic differences: Their basement was below grade and was not a walk-up; this house did have a walk-up. The comp house had a fireplace and theirs didn’t.”
“You know what they said? Fireplaces were dangerous, that people could get burned with them and, hence, they were probably a detriment to the sale of the home. That’s just kind of crazy, right?”
“New York City landlords used to drive a hard bargain. But the luxury condo glut means buyers are now in the driver’s seat - sometimes literally. At One Brooklyn Bridge Park, the 14-story complex in Brooklyn Heights, developers are trying to lure buyers by throwing in a free car with an apartment purchase. The first 10 people to drop $2 million or more on a condo in the $550 million waterfront project before Sept. 30 will get a free 2010 Audi A4 - with parking.”
“The building broke all price records for Brooklyn when real estate mogul Elizabeth Stribling bought a $6 million penthouse in March 2008. Then Wall Street crashed, and took the market for swanky condos with it. Despite slashing prices and opening its door to renters, the 449-unit building is still only 30% full, said developer Ian Levine. He insisted the unusual promotion isn’t a sign of desperation but a tactic to remind consumers the building offers much-sought-after parking.”
“Strollers on the nearby Brooklyn Heights Promenade were skeptical of the cars-for-condos program. ‘For $2 million, you’ve got to give me something nice like a BMW 650i,’ said Alonzo Pollack, 24, of Flatbush. ‘That would sell me.’”
“Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard was in Yuma Wednesday to share some of his concerns about the already plummeting state housing market. ‘The reason I am so concerned is because of something called a payment option ARM,’ Goddard said. ‘Arizona has something like 128,000 loans that are payment options. That means the home owners have been making a minimum payment for the life of the loan, and are now facing a reset provision. If they are making a $200 payment when the normal payment would be $2000, the $1800 they are not paying every month gets added on to the principal, which keeps growing in a market that is declining. If the payment is $2,000 when the person was used to paying $200, and the bank comes and drops the hammer, the homeowner will probably default and go into foreclosure the next day.’”
“Goddard said many loans now cost more than the property is worth, using Maricopa County as an example. ‘This is shocking. Over 70 percent of the homes in the Phoenix area are under water because the loan is greater than the value of the property. ..Now we are faced with abandoned and stripped properties where the people who got foreclosed on usually take everything of value out with them whether it is legal or not.’”
“Goddard said when the housing market was still booming, lenders had a slew of extra money they were throwing at consumers. ‘(Those with an ARM) were mostly people who tried to take advantage of the free money offered on a hot market where the lenders really pushed their product. For many who used the loans to refinance their homes, it sounded like all they had to do was sign their name on the dotted line and they could put money right in their pockets. They have probably burned up their money and now they can’t sell their houses. Those people are facing a very serious financial situation.’”
“The pace of foreclosures in Lane County showed little sign of relenting as 222 more homeowners received legal notices in August. A new wave of foreclosures will crest in the next two or three years as borrowers who took out ‘interest-only’ or ‘pick-a-payment’ loans reach either a reset or a trigger that boost monthly payments by two-thirds or three-quarters, experts said.”
“About one in five borrowers in Oregon in 2007 took out interest-only or pick-a-payment loans, according to the Oregon Division of Finance and Corporate Securities. ‘It’s amazing how many people just desperately wanted to be in a house and would sign off on a product like this,’ University of Oregon economist Tim Duy said. ‘They are making a leveraged financial bet’ that didn’t pay off as home prices dropped, Duy said.”
“Many of the borrowers using interest-only or pick-a-payment loans were probably buying more house than they really could afford, experts said. ‘There isn’t a mortgage modification program that’s going to help you if you fundamentally overreached your capacity to finance a home purchase,’ Duy said.”
“Real estate experts say buyers are encouraged by lower home prices throughout the Clark County market, a function of numerous short sales. Real estate transactions are taking longer to close because of more complex short sale transactions and foreclosures, said Bill Kinkade, owner of Century 21 Cascade Pacific in Vancouver. ‘Problem is, people get impatient. They get apprehensive and then they walk away,’ he said.”
“He is encouraged by recent reports that California’s housing market is showing signs of recovery, an incentive for home owners there to sell, cash out their home’s equity and buy a lower-priced, upgraded home in the Clark County market. ‘California’s fiscal problems may stimulate that even more,’ Kinkade said.”
“Housing is at its most affordable level since the National Association of Home Builders/Wells Fargo Housing Opportunity Index began tracking affordability in 1991. Dennis Torres, Executive Director of Real Estate Operations at Pepperdine University, said the housing crash and low interest rates have combined to create a once-in-a-generation opportunity for buyers. ‘People are going to talk about this as ‘I could have, I should have’ for decades,’ he said. ‘If you’re confident that you’ll stay in the location for seven years and you’re confident of your income, don’t walk, run.’”
“Resident Barbara Koltweit played her best round of golf ever on the course of Palm Desert Country Club on Monday afternoon. Then the club closed. ‘I posted my score at 2 p.m. and no one said anything to me,’ said Koltweit, who lives on the fairway. ‘I’m kind of in shock.’”
“Larry Kosmont, Randy Case, another developer, and Dahoon Investment filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on June 19 in Central District Court in Riverside, hoping to restructure debts of more than $1 million. Robert M. Yaspan, the lawyer handling the bankruptcy, was not immediately available for comment today.”
“‘That’s going to kill the property values,’ said Paul Sturwold, who has lived at the club for more than 20 years.”
“Orange County Sheriff’s Deputy Ramona Figueroa says nothing surprises her any more but the job is getting worse. One common task these days is serving eviction notices to people who have done nothing wrong — who rent properties that have fallen into foreclosure, or are repossessed to recover unpaid debts. ‘They are shocked and surprised,’ Figueroa said as she went on her rounds. ‘And here I am giving them a five-day notice and they explain that just five days earlier the homeowner was at the home collecting rent.’”
“With 17,000 homes going into foreclosure in this Southern California county in the first half of 2009, Figueroa has found her caseload in the last year getting heavier and harder to bear. Homeowners forced into difficulty often take out their frustration on her when she comes knocking on the door to tell them it is time to leave. ‘With the financial situation the way it is, people didn’t get into buying a home with the intentions of losing it,’ said Figueroa. ‘They are disappointed, they are angry.’”
“In this last year, she has been troubled by the constant shifting of blame that came with the sharp rise in evictions. No one wants to be seen as responsible for this large scale breakdown of people’s lives and dreams. ‘I get the property people blaming the real estate people, the real estate people blaming the banks, the banks blaming the homeowners. It is just this vicious circle. I think everybody is to blame for getting into this whole mess. It has kind of snowballed.’”
“The poverty rate rose last year to 13.2%, the highest level since 1997, according to the annual Census Bureau report. The West had 9.6 million people living in poverty in 2008, which represents 13.5% of that region’s population, up from a rate of 12% in 2007. The Midwest had 8.1 million people living below the poverty line in 2008, which is a rate of 12.4%, up from 11.1% in 2007.”
“‘Unfortunately, the regional numbers make perfect sense,’ said Heidi Shierholz, labor market economist at the Economic Policy Institute. ‘The West was very hard hit by the housing bubble, and the industrial Midwest states are suffering in the manufacturing sector.’”
“Nearly 40 million Americans were living below the poverty line, the equivalent of a family of four living on about $22,000 or less a year. In Wesson, Miss., Denise Guidry’s life is upside-down. Once a stay-at-home mom, she’s now struggling to pay the bills after her husband lost his job paying six figures as a pipeline worker. Now, he looks for work out of state. Trying to avoid foreclosure, they’re renting out their five-bedroom home and living in an RV with five children. The most difficult part of the adjustment has been being apart from her children, Guidry said, sobbing.”
“‘I tried to take up the slack which was very hard,’ Guidry said. ‘I’m working three jobs and I can’t make it.’”
“Built in the mid-1960s, Georgetown was, for decades, a thriving, popular apartment complex. The 2005 sale of the 164-acre property to a South Florida developer planning an exclusive waterfront community on the site, however, led to eviction of the tenants of all 624 units. The Halloween 2007 deadline to vacate was perhaps prophetic; today the sprawling complex is a ghost town.”
“A plan to raze the apartments to make way for a mixed-use development of condominiums, town houses and single-family homes was abandoned. The property is under foreclosure, another victim of the slumping real estate market. The apartments were large and economically priced. Tenants forced out in October 2007 were paying $565 monthly for a two-bedroom apartment, with water and electricity still included.”
“One couple displaced from their two-bedroom Georgetown unit reported their new rent for a one-bedroom South Pointe Apartment on South Himes Avenue was $855, plus utilities.”
“Signs that FirstBank Financial Services was headed for trouble appeared long before the small McDonough bank failed last February. Regulatory examinations that took place almost every year since the bank opened its doors in 2002 found that it had grown too fast and took on too much risk related to the booming housing market.”
“But federal regulators took no action to force the bank to change its ways until October 2008, when the bank was already in free fall. The report said the Atlanta office of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. relies on ‘moral suasion’ rather than formal actions to prod changes at banks that have problems but are doing well financially.”
“Where do we go from here? A year after edging dangerously close to free fall, there are signs the economy is regaining a foothold. But Americans’ sense of financial security is badly shaken and the nation confronts questions that defy quick or comfortable answers. Without easy credit, what does life hold for a nation of consumers?”
“The hit to incomes has coincided with a painful blow to Americans’ wealth, not just in stocks but to the equity in their homes. While the dot-com bubble was somewhat larger in dollar terms, the collapse of the housing bubble has been much more far-reaching, and it has depleted public confidence as well as resources. As U.S. manufacturing has continued to move overseas in recent decades, consumer spending has sustained the economy, accounting for more than 70 percent of the gross domestic product.”
“That spending grew even as pay stagnated, because of increased reliance on credit and debt. At the same time, homes were touted not just as places to live, but as investments whose prices could only rise. That economic myth retains much of its power.”
“‘We are finding that most homeowners just think of this (the collapse of the bubble in home prices) as a temporary glitch,’ said Robert Shiller, a Yale University economist and a leading expert on the housing market and the dynamics of decision-making. ‘They seem to think it’s going to go up again. This idea that we’re running out of land and this is a good investment is still a popular view.’”
“The anxieties reach deeper than those stirred by all other recessions since World War II. The U.S. is at an unsettling economic moment, facing the possibility that some old expectations may no longer apply. After more than a decade of building dreams atop a bubble – first in technology stocks, then in housing – there is no clear route forward. Moving on, economists say, the country will have to redefine expectations, accepting that the bubble-fueled growth the country became accustomed to is neither something to aim for nor count on, but evidence of an economy that was out of balance.”
“‘The problem is we’re longing for something we shouldn’t have even wanted,’ said Joel Naroff of Naroff Economic Advisors in Holland, Pa.”
‘We are finding that most homeowners just think of this (the collapse of the bubble in home prices) as a temporary glitch,’ said Robert Shiller, a Yale University economist and a leading expert on the housing market and the dynamics of decision-making. ‘They seem to think it’s going to go up again.’
Huh, I wonder where they are getting this idea, Mr Economist?
Anyhoo, this was a fun week. My thanks to those who support this blog and to the guest posters. Please check back this weekend.
A great week, Ben.
(my favorite from the above articles)
He insisted the unusual promotion isn’t a sign of desperation but a tactic to remind consumers the building offers much-sought-after parking.”
I’m not desperate! I’M NOT DESPERATE! Do you hear me?! I mean it! I super-dooper absolutely mean it! So there! I insist you believe me right this very minute!
*forehead veins bulging and pulsing and eyes bugged out with non-desperation… *
HAHAHAHAHAAHA!
Ahhh! What great articles. Thanks, Ben! I hope you have a very good weekend and that your forehead veins don’t bulge once. I’m planning on having a non-forehead-vein bulging weekend if at all possible. Gotta enjoy the sun and garden while I can. The rains are coming soon.
I hope you have a good weekend.
LOL, Yeah, Here’s a clue for ya Alonzo. If the developer is willing to throw a new Audi AND free parking into the deal it’s an awefully good indication that the CONdo is over-priced by AT LEAST that much.
When did we become a nation of such stupid selfish a$$holes?
Hi Oly,
It’s over a hundred here with no rain in sight.
Have a good weekend to you and Ben.
Hi Oly,
It’s over a hundred here with no rain in sight.
Have a good weekend to you and Ben.
Thanks! You too. You and your salmon and tomatoes…
*grumble *
Say, I think I might be getting the hang of this sunshine bidness.
At first it scared me, but now I’m getting strong…
*misjudges limb distance and falls out of tree onto head *
*testy* !
No kidding! I keep reading and hearing way too many people that think that prices will come back up ’soon’.
Reality check, people.
The NASDAQ hit 5000 in March 2000…and it is now at 2000. The stock market moves way faster than housing and look at where it is 9 years later.
Those who made or make financial decision based on prices of stocks going back to 2000 levels lost big time, and continue losing.
Those who make housing decisions based on prices going back to peak, will lose.
Whenever I’m in doubt about the housing collapse, I always think about the NASDAQ. It’s inflation adjusted high is somewhere around 6500? Imagine the losses if housing only stayed numerically flat for 20 years.
Remember inflation too? The $ lost 60% of its REAL value since 2000… gasoline at $1 a gal, mocha coffee at $1.50 etc…
So that NASDAQ was really 10K of todays’ points…
Same for the Dow at 9500 now… equivalent to Dow 2000 at maybe 4 k
Ian, I think we agree that BLS understates inflation when it reports CPI. However, the reported inflation since 2000 has been only 25%. (Don’t forget, a big component is rents, which really have NOT risen much in this decade.)
I do like to think of Dow w/r/t inflation, as you do. Thus, I think of the 1974 low of the Dow (under six HUNDRED !!!!), and I note that inflation would’ve turned it into no more than 3000 … so I continue to expect that the Dow may actually go back to 3000. I would be a buyer at 4000 or maybe even 5000.
“No kidding! I keep reading and hearing way too many people that think that prices will come back up ’soon’.
This is something I have a hard time understanding. The idea that the housing market will be ‘roaring’ again soon is just completely illogical. Yet, I am hearing that more and more, in my neck of the woods also.
The bubble was debt induced, so who’s going to open the money flood gates again to the house flipping masses?
The problem is the gubmint is tripping all over its self trying to prop every thing up. Wait until the next down draft.
Thus the tons and tons of “hidden inventory.” People who want to sell but plan to wait until “the market gets better.”
If this goes on long enough, the physical deterioration of myriad vacant houses could get downright expensive, as vacant homes physically deteriorate at a far higher rate than occupied homes (unless my kids are the occupants!).
This is when home values drop to ZERO.
If this goes on long enough, the physical deterioration of myriad vacant houses could get downright expensive, as vacant homes physically deteriorate at a far higher rate than occupied homes.
Good point.
Automobiles and mobile homes have always gone down in value over time. (practically everything else, too) Now we can add houses to that list.
Yeah, I hear it from every single person I talk to in my area. Don’t ya’ have to hit bottom before going up? If we’re at bottom in the Philly burbs, can’t call this a bust by any measure.
The NASDAQ hit the bottom and then came up…but nowhere near the levels that plenty thought it would hit.
The same will happen to housing.
And of course, the unknown is the excess inventory and the lack of population. Imagine, Florida lost 58,000 people in one year. Per my count, that’s about 20,000 sales that won’t happen.
Unemployment at a 26 year high, basically no job growth over the last decade, consumer credit close to all time highs, foreclosures at their highest since the Great Depression, Poverty levels through the roof……..I guess with housing becoming so danged affordable, some people are finally realizing with their current income they are qualified for a fridge box.
But due to the above people aren’t buying enough new fridges, washers or dryers, so they aren’t making new boxes. Buy now or be priced out forever.
A jilted lover can pine for a long time before they finally realize that (s)he ain’t comin’ back.
My response to those who believe a rip roaring housing price inflation is right around the corner?
Here it is;
The banks set the price on the way up and the banks set the price on the way down. What you think it’s worth is irrelevant. The banks believe theyre worth much less today than they did 2000-2007. In the absence of the banks, your house isn’t worth much at all.
umm…I don’t think so. No matter WHAT their pocket appraiser says that the house is worth, It’s never worth more than somebody will agree to pay. Although for the past few years it has been worth more than the buyers have been able to pay. When everybody realizes that the appreciation fairy is dead, and that they WILL have to pay the mortgage instead of just refinancing in a couple of years, the banks will be able to do little to keep prices up.
“It’s never worth more than somebody will agree to pay.”
Does your definition of ’somebody’ include potential government price fixers?
“umm…I don’t think so. No matter WHAT their pocket appraiser says that the house is worth, It’s never worth more than somebody will agree to pay.”
I disagree 100% Jim. Unless that somebody is a cash buyer. The sale of a shack at any price is contingent upon what the bank says it worth, not the seller.
Or the Chinese sovereign funds looking to unload their US reserve money?
Yes exeter, banks do set an UPPER limit.* But the lower limit is set by what the borrow is willing to AGREE to pay. And what the seller is willing to accept. Of course these days it’s often the case that the bank IS the seller. But nobody is ever forced to buy. And with the rent/purchase ratio where it stands there’s little reason to now.
*although a somewhat flexible one. You don’t have to be all cash if you’re willing to put down 50% you can finance the remainder even if the agreed upon price is 20% higher than the appraisal.
Ok… The upper limit explanation makes sense but explain the lower limit.
And also, aren’t most sales financed? And yes, a 50% down is always an option but that didn’t occur that often based on my observations. It was low/no dough down that got us where we are.
The bubble was debt induced, so who’s going to open the money flood gates again to the house flipping masses?
Answer: Fannie, Freddie and the FHA……all government owned entities…..the Federal Reserve will provide the increasingly worthless currency necessary…..
“Fannie, Freddie and the FHA”
Like I said, government price fixers…
“Wait until the next down draft.”
You mean the one Meredith Whitney was saying was coming at any time now:
“I think there is no doubt that home prices will go down dramatically from here, it’s just a question of when.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/32773345
I LOVE Meridith Whitney. I would kiss her on the lips, is how much I love her.
…Except then her wrestler husband would get mad.
“…Meridith Whitney…”
She is an American heroine who withstood death threats as a consequence of exercising her First Amendment rights by honestly commenting on certain companies whose stock prices were inevitably destined to tank. And now she is maintaining her ‘honesty above all’ approach to predict another 25 percent leg down in US housing prices. You rock, girl!!!
it’s hilarious . i talk to different realtors and brokers that i know and they honestly believe that prices will be back to 05-06 levals in just a couple years ! brainwashed by the NAR ! no way in hell that will happen !we are just getting started with this mess. it could be 15 - 20 years before that happens if not longer ! prices will fall further ! especially in areas like california .i bet an additional 25-50% in some areas ! BUT WAIT ! THE NAR , JIM CRAMER , CNBC AND OTHERS SAY RECESSION IS OVER AND HOUSING HAS BOTTOMED ! WHAT AM I THINKING !
“Huh, I wonder where they are getting this idea, Mr Economist?”
I sure don’t hear any economists up on the bully pulpit with MSM megaphone in hand trying to discourage this kind of thinking, do you?
Don’t forget to factor in expectations for ever-increasing real estate purchase subsidies when puzzling over why people are expecting higher prices going forward:
Personal Finance Daily
Sept. 11, 2009, 1:33 p.m. EDT
By MarketWatch
If you are a first-time home buyer looking to take advantage of the $8,000 tax credit this year, you need to get on your horse. The credit is set to expire Nov. 30, and with closings taking up to 12 weeks in parts of the country you’ll need to get a contract signed post haste if you’re going to sneak in under the wire.
If you are not a first-timers but are contemplating buying or selling a home, you may want to sit tight for a bit and see what Congress cooks up in the next month or so. That’s because there are at least 20 bills in the hopper that would extend and/or expand the tax credit, with at least one proposal calling for all home buyers to be eligible for up to $15,000.
Real estate trade groups are lobbying heavily for an extension, at a minimum, and say the tax credit has gone a long way to stabilizing the housing market. Expanding it, they contend, could be a boon for buyers and sellers alike, and may even help boost housing prices out of their three-year slump.
But if you qualify for the current credit, don’t hang back. A house in the hand is worth two down the road.
– Steve Kerch, assistant managing editor/personal finance
“A house in the hand is worth two down the road.”
Does that mean he is predicting a 50% drop in the real value of housing going forward?
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Orwell was a visionary… expect the news media to be *exactly* like the Ministry of Truth within a couple of years.
Expect? The news media has become the Ministry of Truth.
Exactly!
Reality went down the memory hole a LONG time ago.
It’s amazing really how precient many of our great dis-topian authors have been. Orwell. Azimov. Bradburry, Sinclair. They all nailed it as if they had a time machine or something. Scary.
Doh!!, And Aldous Huxley. How could I forget Brave New World. Must have taken too much soma today
“Orwell was a visionary… expect the news media to be *exactly* like the Ministry of Truth within a couple of years.”
LOL! Within a couple of years? Dude, we are already there.
Winston
And exactly how far are we from manufacturing “surplus” automobiles just to send them to the crusher as talked about in The Door Into Summer by Heinlein? Itself a dig on agricultural price supports.
“It’s amazing really how precient many of our great dis-topian authors have been.”
I’ve also been thinking about them a lot lately. The one interpretation I’ll throw out is that they all excelled at extrapolating the nexus of human nature and technology. Unlike so many of their contemporaries, they did not succumb to the fallacy that technology sped man’s evolution. So their visions were estentially those of primative men playing with very dangerous toys/ideas.
“The most important virtue of War is the psychologically acceptable destruction of the product of human labor”
The next bubble will be military… together with Peak Oil, it means the US military will get to do tourism in:
Nigeria (Oil is the good s*** there!)
Mexico (Prevent it from becoming an oil importer and extract the remaining oil)
Atlantic coast off Brazil (Oil deposits there)
Heinlein is a hard one to pigeonhole. Some stories are very techno-optimist (Moon is a Harsh Mistress comes to mind) while others are a lot darker. Stranger in a Strange Land is by far the best IMHO and also prophetic to our current times.
Most all of what was written by the old sci-fi authors have come true.
Arthur C. Clarke wrote one of my favorite sci-fi books Childhood’s End.
always been a big fan of the book series from Kunetka/Strieber :
“Warday” & “Natures End”.
I read a lot of sci-fi & fantasy as a youff, and no author predicted anything like the internet.
“Expect? The news media has become the Ministry of Truth.”
Now this is the kind of SF Gal I like!
Thats me droog devotchka!
Let’s not forget Alvin Toffler in Future Shock, but my favorite dystopian authors are Isaiah, Daniel, and John.
cobalt,
When I say the news media, I mean both the left and right news organizations.
I hope I didn’t pop your bubble
It’s amazing really how precient many of our great dis-topian authors have been. Orwell. Azimov. Bradburry, Sinclair. They all nailed it as if they had a time machine or something. Scary.
You know, it could be that their writings have become the playbook of the “powers that be”. So it’s not so much that they were prescient..it’s that their writings have guided events and actions.
Much like sci-fi influences the direction of research and inventions, because those concepts become anchored in our minds (ie teleportation, etc etc)
I forgot to add a couple more great sci-fi authors, Ursula K. Le Guin and Philip K. Dick (who wrote Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep turned into the movie Blade Runner, which I love, love, love)
AQIUS:
always been a big fan of the book series from Kunetka/Strieber :
“Warday” & “Natures End”.
Oh, yes, there we go. I be understanding you. ‘Cause I liked those, too.
*sighs reminiscently *
Heinlein is a hard one to pigeonhole. Some stories are very techno-optimist (Moon is a Harsh Mistress comes to mind) while others are a lot darker.
Disagree! Heinlein is a total impracticalist. He’s a boy Ayn Rand with even more esoteric hormones. Every single female character he ever wrote may as well have had a neon sign flashing and pointing to them reading: ‘I’m a Happy Harlot, but somehow I never get any germs or lose my temper and rip your nads off.’
How realistic is that?!
Not very.
How realistic is that?!
Not very.
Oh, no! I’m just now thinking that I have had my life guided by this Heinlein. I filched many books he wrote from my uncle’s bookcase.
Blade Runner was kick ass, IMO. Directors cut, babee…
Yup. I’ve got the video, the DVD and the director’s cut DVD. Can I say it again, I love, love, love Blade Runner.
I read a lot of sci-fi & fantasy as a youff, and no author predicted anything like the internet.
Tresho, Neil Stephenson predicted much of the “current” internet in Snow Crash back in 1992. There was no Google / wikipedia then (a rudimentary “Librarian”). There was no Google Earth at the time (CIC’s “Earth” application). OK so he got the whole VR thing wrong (we’ll probably never plug in and metaphorically interact with objects) but he got a lot right. Let’s just hope he doesn’t get the whole franchise-state thing right
Although YT’s skateboard and magnapoon would be cool …
I read a lot of sci-fi & fantasy as a youff, and no author predicted anything like the internet.
William Gibson. Neuromancer, published 1984 and Count Zero, published 1987.
And I still hold F. Herbert’s Dune as the definitive sci-fi epic in regards to the politics and economics of environmental and social exploitation… I mean, OPEC is the incarnation of the Spacing Guild and Spice is a metaphor for oil, no? His fear of advanced technology (the Butlerian Jihad, the banning of AI, human Mentats) and genetic manipulation (Tilaxu and their Gholas)… published in 1965.
it could be that their writings have become the playbook of the “powers that be”. So it’s not so much that they were prescient..it’s that their writings have guided events and actions.
The PTB don’t read books, they just party with the in crowd.
I’ll reiterate my earlier prediction: the tax credit will most likely be extended, perhaps even broadened or raised in value, but not until the last minute.
And the delay in passing an extension is not because of congressional inability or unwillingness to act. Rather, I’m certain that in the NAR’s view, there’s just too much additional benefit to be gained from creating a temporary sense of urgency that the credit will expire soon. “Hurry now, while supplies last!”
I believe you’re right. They’ll extend the credit, just kicking the can down the road, and at least they won’t be able to be accused of “not doing anything.” But IMO, they’ll just delay the inevitable by propping up houses at unaffordable levels, and also steal demand from the future. They need to let the market just flatline for awhile.
“…to be gained from creating a temporary sense of urgency that the credit will expire soon…”
…to be immediately followed by the reaction to the ’surprise’ announcement of the credit’s renewal and expansion.
When they increase it to $15k I wonder whether the $8k crowd will petition for the extra $7k - and get it? Why not, that’s another several billion to stimulate the economy!!
Wouldn’t surprise me. I know that some people who bought last year are attempting to get the $8K credit.
Astounding, isn’t it, that the gov. is encouraging people to buy when values will drop even further, thus exacerbating future foreclosures. Wonder if they will ever admit their error? Nah!
People made the same mistake in the early 1930s. I wonder if the government was involved with knifecatcher encouragement programs back then as well?
Indeed. Hoover is portrayed as a laissez-faire ideologue by the MSM, but was in fact one of the most interventionist presidents ever.
“Huh, I wonder where they’re getting this idea, Mr. Economist?”
Answer! — They’re getting it from Dennis Torres, Director of Real Estate Operations at Pepperdine University, quoted a little further up in Ben’s post — “People are going to talk about this as ‘I could have, I should have’ for decades.”
Yeah, right! …IMO, people are already talking about the 2005 or 2006 selling opportunity as “I could have, I should have.”
BWHAHAHAHAHAHA.
As long as we are fed the BS about the recession being over, people are going to think “That means that the prices of houses are going to go up. Nothing to worry about.” The area I live in is so full of those self-deluded people, I’ve given up on trying to convince them otherwise. I can’t wait until next year, when I can sit back with a “I told you so” grin on my face.
Haven’t you been doing that since last year?
He who grins last, grins best…
“‘The fact is, if it’s priced right, it will sell,’ said Joseph T. “Jody” Landers III, executive vice president of the Greater Baltimore Board of Realtors. ‘It may take a little longer than it did two years ago, but it will sell. And if it’s priced wrong, it’ll sit forever.’ You think they’ll run him out of the NAR for speaking simple truths like that?
Run him out?
Nope. He’d better watch out before they ‘run him up.’
Cue deliverance background music: “That thar words ain’t tolerated round here fellah…”
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Best quote yet from a RE who gets it.
‘What sellers need to understand is that they don’t establish the price for a property, their agent doesn’t establish the price of a property, the market establishes the price.’”
He’s wrong. If it’s a financed item, the banks set the price.
“Strollers on the nearby Brooklyn Heights Promenade were skeptical of the cars-for-condos program. ‘For $2 million, you’ve got to give me something nice like a BMW 650i,’ said Alonzo Pollack, 24, of Flatbush. ‘That would sell me.’”
Wow - so if they just upgrade the car $35,000 more, this snot-nosed 24 year-old will commit to a $2,000,000 noose around his neck?
Still far from the bottom…
No, he will take the car and walk! That is proabably what he means.
I doubt Mr. Pollack has enough for a 650i, let alone a $2M condo.
car?…………..its a guaranteed reserved parking space that’s worth $250K that is the prize
now does that $2mill look so bad…. huh?
I hope you’re joking. . .
You have NO IDEA how bad parking is around there…ZILCH nada..
That parking space is worth as much as a house in most of the country.
“The problem with the high-end market, Lyons said, is with asking prices. Or is it that (want to be) sellers have the willingness and ability to continue to pay their inflated mortgages? The idea that your house is worth much more than buyers think it is can be a pretty expensive fantasy. Sure makes those fantasy baseball camps or racedriving lessons seem cheap by comparison.
“Q: What are the weird things people say about their homes? A: When I hear somebody say something that just doesn’t make great logical sense to me, I always respond with, ‘Really?’ People get very delusional about their own homes. People think their house is better than anything out there. With one couple, one of the comparable homes I showed was priced quite a bit less than their house. Same builder, same townhouse, had two very dramatic differences: Their basement was below grade and was not a walk-up; this house did have a walk-up. The comp house had a fireplace and theirs didn’t.”
[b]“You know what they said? Fireplaces were dangerous, that people could get burned with them and, hence, they were probably a detriment to the sale of the home. That’s just kind of crazy, right?”[/b]
This is RICH. It’s the kind of delusion that literally defies logic and makes a perfect candidate for a individual case study of the housing mania.
Yep, It’s pure delusion! Never before have so many been so.
I had a rea-la-tor/developer say to me last weekend that he could tell people were starting to ‘feel’ much better. So what’s his next line? By the spring of 2010 the housing market will be booming again!
No response from me, no point.
I’d have had a field day with that one……. How could he tell? He “sensed” it right? He too “felt” it?
Jerks.
He too “felt” it?
The schwartz is strong in this one.
Ex,
I don’t know, it’s like talking to a window. They don’t know anything else, so they keep repeating the same thing over and over. It’s like going to an am-way convention.
wmbz, I would have at least humored him by saying something like, “well good then, I’ll make an offer based on what I’m feeling.”
and who wants a two car garage ? You’d just have to by another car to put in it !
Sounds like Real Estate Intervention on HGTV. I’ve watched it a couple of times and the things people say why their house is so special compared other people houses is well bubble talk
I just saw that show this week for the first time. DH and I had some really good laughs. We might actually keep watching it.
One couple thought it was a HUGE deal that their house was 5 blocks away from the metro and their competition was 6 blocks away, even though the competition was a little bigger, a little nicer, and tens of thousands of dollars cheaper.
It is a good show for a little schadenfreude, but at the same time, it makes me want to puke.
Their basement was below grade and was not a walk-up; this house did have a walk-up.
Does the realtor mean walk out basement ? The bubble attacted so many incompetent people to the business from RE agents to morgate brokers. I remember one agent at an open house tell me the floors were hardwood because of the wide planks. That was several years ago. Just recently saw a very nice condo. The brochure included as features “hardwood heart of pine” floors.
The article reminded me about Fannie and Freddie. Remember that ancient debate about those entities having implicit government backing, and abusing it?
Among those complaining were the 19 “systemic risk” too big to fail banks. Now they are in the same position. But we’ve substituted two agencies created by the government with a theoretical (only) public purpose, with 19 whose “purpose” is to grab as much money as they can by any means necessary.
Yup. The too-big-to-fail problem has kept right on biggering and biggering and biggering.
“…But Americans’ sense of financial security is badly shaken and the nation confronts questions that defy quick or comfortable answers. Without easy credit, what does life hold for a nation of consumers?”
Geez, old folks must really enjoy hang’in out in each others company…because as I walk around the town circle, all I see are groups of elderly eating out & drinking their $2.25 cups of joe, nary a person under age 65 sittin’ at the tables, in fact right now… x5 cops are putting a homeless woman, her bicycle & belongin’s in a patrol car…(the group of x8 seniors are quietly discussing “reverse mortgages”)
“Carolyn Capalbo, a real estate agent in Manassas who works in Prince William, Loudoun, Fairfax and Fauquier counties, said she has noticed a ’sharp shift’ in the past six months, as a swell of buyers, many looking to purchase their first home, have been jockeying for a smaller pool of houses.”
Thanks to stimulus-based govt hiring, DC is one of the few parts of the country with a relatively low unemployment rate (slightly north of 6 pct, I believe). Relocation to DC for govt jobs coupled with Dough-4-Dumps could go a long way to explaining the respiked DC ‘housing shortage.’
That’s it in a nut shell.
South of there in Norfolk/Virginia Beach and surrounding area (1.7 mil population) it’s the same. People moving here due to navy or because they got cut from their jobs buying up cruft.
Well, this is the Washington Post, one of the best sources of stupid UHS quotes ever. BTW, are they still doing that absurd online RE Q&A on Fridays?
You’ll sometimes get some realistic thinking in the Business section, but almost NEVER in the Real Estate section.
I think they stopped those talks a year or two back. It wasn’t long after the bubble popped. They tried to switch commentators and the new one didn’t last long. Lord, I hated that woman.
Oh, yeah, but I think it is every other Friday. Or maybe they just skipped it this week.
The number of people who write in asking the reporters to tell them exactly what sort of return they are going to get on a house in a particular number of months or whether they should add a room when they plan to sell in 14 months or some such nonsense is very high. And sometimes you get similar questions about renovations in the decorating chat Thursday mornings. Very, very funny. A little sad too.
It is every other Friday. It’s like a support group for housing cheerleaders, where they all hold hands and tell each other things are different here in DC and congratulate each other for their foresight in buying here.
I wouldn’t exactly call the two women who answer the questions “reporters.”
Over and over and over Elizabeth Razzi, author of the Fearless Home Buyer, (gag me with a spoon) has scolded people for saying prices are too high. According to her: DC is so special it justifies high prices, and we’ll never see the kind of collapse seen in Fla. or Calif. and that the reason the run up in prices was so big is b/c DC used to be undervalued (!!!!!)
This is too funny for anyone who remembers DC before it started becoming gentrified.
Yes they still do the Q&A with new moderator. There actually have been some resonably sensible questions and answers. I think duuring one recent session someone was advised to rent.
Actually, DC itself, not the “metro area” has an unemployment rate of more than 10 percent.
“Orange County Sheriff’s Deputy Ramona Figueroa says nothing surprises her any more but the job is getting worse. One common task these days is serving eviction notices to people who have done nothing wrong — who rent properties that have fallen into foreclosure, or are repossessed to recover unpaid debts. ‘They are shocked and surprised,’ Figueroa said as she went on her rounds. ‘And here I am giving them a five-day notice and they explain that just five days earlier the homeowner was at the home collecting rent.’”
I thought the law had been changed so that renters were given 60 days notice in California?
Just waiting for that special notice to show up on my door, though my LL has held the property for greater than 20yrs. Expect he HELOCed the snot out of himself.
Are foreclosure notices public record? Then again internet access in LA is sketchy at best for some:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/11/business/fi-broadband11
‘renters were given 60 days notice’
Back in the day I did many evictions of college students (for not paying the rent, BTW) and I seriously doubt any state does this in less than 30 days. Heck, it isn’t even realistic to do it that fast.
I have not been to a short sale closing. With the banks its not so bad, but I wonder what the last minute negotiations are like if you have someone bringing money to the table.
One typical trick at the short-sale closing is a promissory note (for the difference between the selling price and the mortgage balance) magically shows up in the pile of documents the seller is supposed to sign even though the lender never mentions this would happen in the prior conversations between the lender and the seller.
Some stupid sellers actually sign it, the smart ones decline…..
I know young people buying in my area. I warned them, but it’s difficult because your dissing housing in front of other friends that bought recently.
$170K for a 1300 sqft old house with two prong outlets just doesn’t sound appealing to me. Median household income in Hampton Roads / Southeastern Virginia is probably $50K maybe (some cities higher than others). But rents are high (probably due to the Navy BAH) so for many it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Maybe I just expect to much? 2K sqft contemporaryish ranch with inground pool. That’s me. Less than $200K.
Closely reflecting the US as a whole (median household income $50K according to today’s papers; median used-house price $175K in Q209, down 16% from a year earlier). Watch for prices to fall farther, as the typical $50K household does NOT have $35K saved up for the traditional down payment.
Only $6,125 (3.5% downpayment) needed thanks to the good old FHA. Heck, you could get a cash advance on your Visa card and go no-money down!
“The fact that almost 40% of homes sold last month were distressed properties is mind-boggling. When that many houses are foreclosed or short sold (meaning the house is sold for current market value that is less than what the homeowner originally paid for it), it means the bottom is being flushed out of the market. Prices are at rock bottom and there’s only one way to go, and that’s UP. With a little bit of luck, prices may be popping up about the same time as the daffodils this spring.”
- Barbara Corcoran, September 11, 2009 in response to the following question
“I hear that the worst of our current recession is over. So when do you think prices in the United States will go up?”
The last time I was this pissed off on September 11th was 8 years ago. This woman should be behind bars, not writing a column in a newspaper.
Substitute “Daffodils” for “Tulips”…
A better flower to illustrate what’s really going on.
Opps, meant “Tulips” for “Daffodils”. Having a bad day.
Yes, although Tulipmania is more appropriate, either one of them requires a lot of BS for fertilizer.
You should watch the show Shark Tank. She is one of the sharks.
Barbara Corcoran, self made real estate millionaire who sold her company The Corcoran Group for $70 million in 2001.
Shark Tank (wikipedia)
yup.. that’s her. Two of those guys are multi-billionaires with nothing better to do..
i was kinda miffed i missed the show last night.. or was it the night before.. YouTube doesn’t have the vids.. might be illegal or something.
Shark Tank is on Sunday at 9:00 on your local ABC channel
Sun repeat ( i suppose) on Tuesdays.. 8pm Pacific.. on ABC according to an online TV guide.
meaning the house is sold for current market value that is less than what the homeowner originally paid for it
Umm..that’s not correct. It’s that the house is sold for less than the note on it, no?
Selling for a loss isn’t in an of itself a short sale. Or did I miss something?
“…‘There isn’t a mortgage modification program that’s going to help you if you fundamentally overreached your capacity to finance a home purchase,’ Duy said.”
tell it. I am SO sick of the whining about “keeping people in their homes”
I wondered what happened to the “Real Estate Insiders” radio show that used to come out of Detroit. I listened a lot, 3-4 years ago, thinking how I was missing out on the big RE boom. Looking back I realize most the callers were specuvestors, with a lot of interest in Florida, LOL. In all fairness they did often recommend against long-distance landlording. But the “insiders” were big on Secure Advantage loans (neg amortization).
Last few times I listened one of the three hosts kept wondering what happened when the ARM resets hit…”oughta be interesting.”
Anyway I see their web site is history. Wonder if they got sued.
I must be the only one who listens to AM radio on Sundays.
Dennis Torres, Executive Director of Real Estate Operations at Pepperdine University, said the housing crash and low interest rates have combined to create a once-in-a-generation opportunity for buyers.
Huh?
I’m not sure exactly what Torres’ position is at Pepperdine. Sounds like he’s not a faculty member. Why would a university have a “real estate operations” branch? Does he invest for the endowment fund?
Aftre awhile they start to believe their own bullsh@t that spews out of their mouth.
Reminds me of the South Park episode where all the smug yuppie a$$holes were sniffing their own farts out of crystal stemware
that’s one of my favorites!
Yes, Pepperdine’s “Real Estate Operations” office invests for the endowment fund AND manages a couple of faculty housing complexes. Seems there are some condo complexes on campus, the “REO” (ha ha) office provides management services for same.
More like once in a LUNCHTIME oppertunity !
Just when you thought you’ve heard it all:
Condo owner finds out he’s been living and renovating in the wrong unit
http://www.ethiopianreview.com/articles/29881
‘The reason I (Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard) am so concerned is because of something called a payment option ARM,’ Goddard said.
I get this picture in my head of the movie Austin Powers when Dr. Evil says “Back in the 60’s, I had a weather changing machine that was, in essence, a sophisticated heat beam which we called a “LASER.” ”
I can see Goddard using his fingers like quote marks like Dr. Evil, so as to explain to the simpletons what an option ARM is, as if he’s the only one onto it. Scary that gov’t. types are just starting to mention option ARMS two years after the alarm was raised, but even scarier perhaps that he’s the Att’y General (the poor FB’s once again cast as victims?)
Given that the Treasury is run by a central banker and Fed alum, is it any wonder he would want his former bosses’ outfit to gain power?
Fed Failed to Curb Flawed Bank Lending, Inspector General Says
By Steve Matthews
Sept. 12 (Bloomberg) — Federal Reserve examiners failed to rein in practices that led to losses from excessive real estate lending at two banks in California and Florida that later closed, the central bank’s inspector general said.
Riverside Bank of the Gulf Coast in Cape Coral, Florida, “warranted more immediate supervisory attention” by the Atlanta district bank, Fed Inspector General Elizabeth Coleman said in a report to the central bank’s board. In overseeing County Bank in Merced, California, the San Francisco Fed should have taken a “more aggressive supervisory” approach, Coleman said in another report, also dated Sept. 9.
The findings follow criticism by lawmakers including Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, who say the Fed failed to curtail flawed underwriting and other lending abuses that contributed to the collapse of the housing market. Another report by the Fed’s inspector general in June faulted the Atlanta Fed’s oversight of First Georgia Community Bank.
Congress is reviewing a U.S. Treasury proposal to give the Fed more power by making it the supervisor for large and interconnected firms that may damage the U.S. financial system in the event of failure. The Treasury plan is part of an effort to overhaul U.S. financial regulation.
“The Fed does not come out smelling like a rose,” said Gilbert Schwartz, former associate general counsel of the Fed board and now a partner at law firm Schwartz & Ballen LLP in Washington. “There are things that could have been done better.”
…
Happy FDIC Friday to all!
3 more down: Bank failure tally hits 92
Regulators close banks in Illinois, Minnesota and Washington at a cost of more than $2 billion to the FDIC.
By Ben Rooney, CNNMoney.com staff reporter
Last Updated: September 11, 2009: 9:36 PM ET
Is Obama’s foreclosure rescue plan working?
DID YOUR BANK FAIL?
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Regulators closed one large bank in Illinois and two other smaller financial institutions on Friday, pushing the total number of failures this year to 92, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
Customers of the banks, however, are protected. The FDIC, which has insured bank deposits since the Great Depression, covers each customer account up to $250,000.
…