September 13, 2009

Bits Bucket For September 14, 2009

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445 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-13 21:16:51

I haven’t looked in wikipedia much over the years, but came across this reference to a HBB post from March 2006. The AZ blogger and I worked on this for a week or more to make sure we had it right before going public. Seems kinda small potatoes with how things worked out, but it was shocking at the time.

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=256

Comment by Carl Morris
2009-09-13 21:29:28

I miss those days…I miss auger-inn. Looks like NW Wyoming has finally just reached that point where AZ was back then.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-09-14 04:41:39

I miss him and John Law too. JL was like an early hoz, knowledgable and very generous w/his time explaining things to newbies.

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-14 05:00:07

‘I miss those days’

I sure don’t. Back in 2005 we used to talk about how long it would take for housing prices to drop significantly. Most of us thought 7 or 10 years. It’s gone a lot faster than many believed, and I’m glad to be living in 2009 with the opportunity that is here now.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-09-14 05:22:35

Greater opportunities are ahead of us. But yes, these are indeed good days. My job situation is “up in the air,” but I prepared for these days for the last eight or nine years.

I’m going to incorporate by January 1st. to be able to continue working in LA, abeit through April and to continue saving taxes. I have people who are going to help me through the legal stuff.

Got coffee?

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Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-09-14 12:44:12

If I’m not mistaken, Auger-inn coined the term “a$$-pounding”.

As in, “Once this market corrects, those FB’s are in for a real a$$ pounding”.

It seems prophetic now, doesn’t it.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 22:31:27

Who was it who said that he who grins last grins best? Being one of the first to grin isn’t half bad, either ;-)

Comment by GetStucco
2006-03-10 13:07:29
Don’t forget the army of baby-boomer retirees who are going to cash out of the rust belt and buy those 14,000 empty PHX homes as long-term investments…

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-09-13 23:22:58

Funny, I just finished writing Tuesday’s post and sat down to read today’s BB which is already posted for tomorrow, but it’s still tonight. No wonder I have a headache….

Hey, CONGRATS on the wiki entry. Nice to see the old names again.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-09-14 02:08:49

Cracks me up to see that Fox was reporting on an upcoming Depression all the way back in 2006.

Comment by ca renter
2006-03-10 13:18:01
O/T: Just saw a something on TV (Fox news). They’re going to talk about the worry of a depression… 1:20 pm PST.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-09-14 04:43:47

I wonder if Fox’s guest that night was Peter Schiff.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 04:57:27

One way to view AG’s tenure at the Fed is through the lens of this book’s failed prediction:

The Great Depression of 1990 (Mass Market Paperback)

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-09-14 05:32:34

I remember my father told me in the 1970s that we are going to have another great depression.

Moral: If you are fixated on the negative and don’t make plans for the positive, you will not get the positive.

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-09-14 06:17:42

+1

 
Comment by rms
2009-09-14 07:04:41

“Moral: If you are fixated on the negative and don’t make plans for the positive, you will not get the positive.”

Your slothful neighbors will rob you justifying their actions with a self serving testament. Now get back to work!

 
Comment by Mike in Bend
2009-09-14 07:05:35

Listings in Redmond, OR have certainly fallen in price since 2006, when sales volume was falling, but prices still rising. We sold a condo for $350,000 that we had purchased one year earlier for $208,000. This fella has the place on the market now for $215,000, wait $205,000.

But since this is a short sale, I don’t really understand the UHS listing stating “offered at $205,000. I happen to know that the guy owes north of 300k on the place.

What are short sales doing to the market. Why are banks not negotiating a “Buy Now” price? Instead they are letting agents fish for offers that are not sales prices but fishing expeditions to attract offers. Does this give the bank more time to attach fees to the struggling homeowner?

When we would “offer” a case of tomatoes for $20.00, we would sell them to the buyer at the first qualified offer of “20.00″. Imagine if we told the buyer, wait three to six months, we may get back to you, but your offer of full list price likely is not sufficient; we may just as likely rather get $30.00 from the previous owner of the case of tomatoes, and you get lemons instead! Or offer the current owner of case false hope while accruing fees all the while. I imagine we would end up getting rotten tomatoes hurled at us for offering a false price to begin with.

But agents seem to be marketing short sales like crazy. over 500 of the 1200 homes on the market here in Redmond are in some form of owner default, no shortage of short sales. In our development, for the exact same floorplan, list prices on units range from 205k to 385k. How is an appraiser to fairly price one of these units?

I ask, with so many buyers going into foreclosure and blaming it on whoever (banks, agents, loan officers, whoever), who is a bigger dummy. A bank who sits on an offer for 180 days without response, an agent who is allowed(why?) to list a short sale at an offered at price that is not pre-negotiated or honored by the banks? Is it the lady who lives with her boyfriend in his pre-forclosure, while continuing to run a day-care business out of her own pre-foreclosure(neither she nor her boyfriend have been making payments, not do they plan on starting back up again). They figure it is the bank’s fault for loaning it to them. Or am I the biggest dummy of all, continuing to pay, even though it will leave our family broke, the mortgage my wife took out with her
fico score. Or wanting to live in a drug free society that was actually full of drugs according to Olygal. Mormons must not practice what they preach? BTW, we did not see too many drugs in the Logan area, but our sociability study was indeed flawed regardless of the drugs issue, because the LDS families did not want to play with the Catholics or Lutherans, specially on Sundays.

Where is the sense in this issue? Who is playing by the golden rule these days? Small, inquiring minds want to know! why is paying BofA as outlined in the mortgage contract any more moral than not paying and allowing the collateral to go back to the bank? (without damaging the house on purpose, which seems senseless to me).
Mike in BendOer.gone

 
Comment by polly
2009-09-14 09:02:36

“In our development, for the exact same floorplan, list prices on units range from 205k to 385k. How is an appraiser to fairly price one of these units?”

Based on sales, not listing prices. Reasonable multiple of rent would also work, but doubt that is in their basket of tricks.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 13:43:52

Mike, are you familiar with the term and concept of “horse trading?” How about “caveat emptor?” Yeah, I thought you might of heard of that one.

It’s SOP for large transactions.

So Mike, to answer your question, if you bought your house expecting to make money and you missed the window of opportunity, than yes, you’re a dummy. If you bought your house to LIVE IN, then you are fine and as a bonus, you will get to keep the house without any convoluted liens or claims from the “bank.” Not to mention a fantastic credit rating.

Buyer’s remorse is a waste of time.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 14:17:38

So Mike, to answer your question, if you bought your house expecting to make money and you missed the window of opportunity, than yes, you’re a dummy. If you bought your house to LIVE IN, then you are fine and as a bonus, you will get to keep the house without any convoluted liens or claims from the “bank.” Not to mention a fantastic credit rating.

Buyer’s remorse is a waste of time.

(from someone who who rarely agrees with ecofeco :-) ) - I’ll pipe in with a “what he said”.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 14:42:47

Thanks packman.

 
Comment by Mike in Bend
2009-09-14 15:03:27

We’re not having buyers remorse, lots of others in our area are! Dropping off like flies, like one realtor put it to me. We bought our home to live in, it is the same development as our old home, but much nicer situated, some $40,000 dollars nicer, according to the appraiser who appraised, when we sold our first unit in this area for 350k. I think that the people who have bought from us have all experienced buyer’s remorse, as one who bought for 350k is now trying to get the bank to take 205k, three years later, and a person who bought our oceanside crapshack in 04 for 860k put 300k in work into it and then sold it… for 860k. It does not matter, though. just sayin, I agree with you guys about the caveat stuff, buyer and seller alike.

I was wondering why realtors won’t tell you that short sale prices are not bank approved prices and therefore fake and deceitful. The asking price should BE the price and not just a fishing expedition to get offers on the table for the bank to be able to be able to string a FB along a little longer before rejecting the bait and switch offer submitted by the would be buyer. Supposedly local lenders are better to deal with on short sales than BofA, because BofA will let an offer sit 180 days!

So yeah, a good credit rating is what I am after if I can situate myself to work again after whiplash injury hurt me pretty bad a decade ago, so much I had to quit my lifestyle of surfing and selling veggies and move to central oregon to try to teach. Just want to be sure we don’t expend all our resources before I can make money again which will take some luck and another year of college. I’m sure some of you wish me luck,and others, not so much…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 16:56:32

I’ll sincerely wish you luck Mike.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-09-14 21:03:45

Whiplash is not covered under the Obama health plan.Go take the blue pill and go to sleep. You’re in Ore right?

 
 
 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 13:52:10

This Is a Deliberate Double Post Bulletin:

To my friends here, go read the Judge’s decision. We may be A Federal District judge on Monday overturned a settlement between the Bank of America and the Securities and Exchange Commission over bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch executives just before the bank took over Merrill last year.
Text of the Ruling
The judge said that Bank of America “materially lied” in shareholder communications about the bonuses.

The $33 million settlement “does not comport with the most elementary notions of justice and morality,” wrote Jed S. Rakoff, the judge assigned to the case in federal court in Lower Manhattan
Reply to this comment
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 13:33:59
Go to the Ny Times and read the entire 13 page decision. It is a good read
making a little progress here…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 21:47:09

Not everybody loves bears, I guess…

From the Newsweek Archives

Posted Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:35 AM
The Troll: Failout Fun
Brian Braiker

OK, fine. The crumbling of our economic infrastructure as if it was so many stale stale sugar cookies is a serious matter. Fortunately, there are more seriouser people than I who are working hard to figure out what to make of it all: The Calculated Risk blog has up-to-the-minute news, analysis and projections — maintained by “a senior executive, retired from a public company, with a background in investing, finance and economics.” Sounds credibly fancy! Particularly chilling is this post examining Personal Consumption Expenditures (in normal-people words: “consumer spending,” which may well see its first quarterly decline since the fourth quarter of 1991). “This is strong evidence that the indefatigable U.S. consumer is finally throwing in the towel,” he writes, as I stash my precious, precious pennies into my horned Hank Paulson fright mask under the mattress of my bed in my house, the mortgage on which I recently defaulted.

Speaking of which! The housing bubble blog. Ooof.

 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-09-13 21:27:07

News from the Middle East:

Kuwait property sales slide 38% in year to July
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/567402-kuwait-property-sales-slide-38-in-year-to-july

Dubai house prices see 47% annual decline
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/567384-dubai-house-prices-see-47-annual-decline

There were some comments yesterday about corruption in Russia, I found this AP article that makes the fraudsters in the US seem like Chior Boys:

Study: Roads perfect example of Moscow corruption
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gVs_Wps4pbLMPjh24NRyUo1lLIkwD9AJ86M00

Construction of Moscow’s new, fourth ring road is
expected to cost 7.4 billion rubles per kilometer
($380 million per mile), his study revealed.

Comment by rms
2009-09-14 11:26:22

The housing expansion in the West Bank is being financed with U.S. loan guarantees, and there is the $9-Billion annual security expenses that are also paid by the U.S. The U.N. says the land’s title isn’t clear either. :)

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 22:58:53

housing expansion? you mean illegal settlements?

 
 
 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-13 21:28:33

Hello Everyone….I see Ben is posting earlier now. It’s actually 9:14 here. It’s not as hot anymore and noticiably cooler.

I ran across this article about risk in stocks today…

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32799168/ns/business-businessweekcom/

I have always been risk adversive. As for my experience, Money always seems to leave my stock fund quicker than it would go in. That’s why I have left stocks. It just feels like a legal scheme to me. I would rather deal with things I can see, like actual paper money. This whole debt culture is bad for our nation. I do subscribe to the premise that you must spend all you have, when you can. Money is the root of all evil, and it can corrupt those who arent ready to handle. Saving is good, but I surmise that saving too much can be bad. I have seen too many thrift savers save for 30 years, die young and their spouse and boyfriend live the good life afterward. Nope, sorry, not here, I am going to smell my flower’s now. But then again, this type of behavior sort of contributed to the bubble. But then again, I am not talking about living beyond my means, I am just advocating spending money I physically have. Plus, it depends on the stream of income you have coming in. I have a decent income stream coming in, but this credit bubble thing had people thinking credit is income, or classifiying it that way in their minds. I must admit, I was wired that way, until I started to look at credit differently. I really got into the FICO score, and in learning this system, I found that in order to have a truly high credit, you cant actually use credit. It is all about risk. Our society doesnt care who is assuming risk, as long as it isnt us…

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-09-14 03:51:48

“I was wired that way, until I started to look at credit differently. I really got into the FICO score, and in learning this system, I found that in order to have a truly high credit, you cant actually use credit.”

That’s not really true (IMHO). To have a high FICO you have to not NEED credit, and not revolve “stupid” balances. If you’ve got a revolving loan out there at 20% interest rate where your balance is 90% of the limit on the loan; that’s going to do bad things to your FICO.

I use credit like a fiend, I try never to use cash. I’ve had monthly CC bills into the mid-5 digit ranges (traveling for work), and also have a very high FICO score. If you don’t need the credit, the FICO score is going to be higher; but using the credit doesn’t hurt your score. Not paying it off hurts your score.

Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 04:52:20

Same here Fink. I use ccs for everything, car insurance, groceries, utility bills, cell phone, dr. visits, you name it. Plus a fair amount of travel. The balances are paid off in full every month and my FICO is in the mid to upper 700s.

I could pay in cash/debit card, but why not get the cc goodies? Last year I got $1200 cash back from Discover. No annual fee and I didn’t pay a dime of interest. $1200 tax free income for doing nothing. Not a bad gig. Would have been more, but $1200 is the annual limit for that particular card. As soon as I hit the limit, I started using my Amex full time and loaded up on the Hilton points.

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 05:24:27

You can’t actually use need credit…

Being credit worthy means lenders are certain you will repay the debt. That means you have plenty of resources to repay the debt, like a steady income exceeding your needs, or assets, or savings, etc.

Credit worthy people really don’t need credit in the first place. It’s just a convenience… credit is more convenient than using some other means to buy what they want. Those are the people lenders are most willing to lend to and that’s reflected in a high score.

To raise a score, do things that show lenders that you not only don’t need credit, but that you practically hate being in debt.
One way is to borrow some small amount (for no good reason) and pay it off early.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-09-14 05:43:06

It’s a good perspective you have. But I see where you are coming from. You are in the armed forces and have a steady, albeit dangerous job (and thanks again for serving). You can afford the point of view of someone fifteen years younger in regard to money to enjoy your life while you can.

My job has been unstable for the last nine years. So I had to live well below my means and sock away the cash for uncertain times. I have no problem with it. See, I’m old enough to have had parents who grew up in the depression. I live like a king compared to them.

As for stocks, I did some pre-screening yesterday for my next $2,000 purchase in November and found about five bargain-priced stocks, two of which I already own. And one of them yields just above 9%. Even in a huge run-up like we had since March, a few hours of research will uncover some diamonds.

Comment by Skip
2009-09-14 07:25:00

five bargain-priced stocks, two of which I already own.

I hate it when that happens!

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-13 21:49:05

Wow oh wow, talk about a blast from the past. Some memorable posters who don’t post here anymore and some that are still posting here. It was great reading. Thanks Ben.

 
Comment by bangkokobserver
2009-09-13 22:27:46

Even tax havens are suffering in the Great non-Depression. Grand Cayman bonds, anyone?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/13/british-tax-havens-need-bailouts

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 03:11:37

There’s something poetic about this…

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 14:06:29

Sheesh. I’d hate to have to explain to the taxpayers why they have to bail out a tax haven ‘country’. That’s an even tougher sale than explaining why we ‘have’ to bail out the banksters.

The article isn’t clear on why these places are going broke. Bad governance, or people no longer having as much money to shelter from taxes? If it’s the latter, thats definitely deflationary.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 22:47:39

Am I the only one who perceives a $33m as too small a settlement for hiding $5,800m in bonuses from BofA shareholders?

Judge Rakoff seems destined to go down in history as a hero of American capitalism.

BofA and SEC forced to justify $33m settlement
By Greg Farrell in New York

Published: September 10 2009 03:00 | Last updated: September 10 2009 03:00

Bank of America and the Securities and Exchange Commission were yesterday forced to file arguments with a federal judge justifying their $33m settlement last month over allegations of false and misleading statements to shareholders.

The filings, demanded by Judge Jed Rakoff, have extended the legal battle over BofA’s role in Merrill Lynch’s payment of bonuses to its staff during its purchase by BofA.

BofA’s filing maintained that last year’s proxy statement to shareholders concerning the acquisition of Merrill had not contained misleading statements about the bonuses but argued that a $33m settlement, without admission of liability, was preferable to a protracted battle with one of its primary regulators “at a time of uncertain and difficult market conditions”.

The SEC insisted that BofA had misled its shareholders by declaring that large bonuses would not be paid at Merrill without BofA approval, even though the bank had already given its approval for the payment of as much as $5.8bn. However, as it lacked specific evidence against individual BofA executives in the alleged mis-statements, the SEC determined that a substantial fine involving the bank was justified.

The legal jousting over an issue that both parties had considered settled erupted after Mr Rakoff refused to accept the proposed SEC/BofA settlement. At a hearing last month, he castigated the regulator for determining that the bank had issued misleading statements but failing to identify the individuals allegedly responsible.

Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 01:40:42

“BofA’s filing maintained that last year’s proxy statement to shareholders concerning the acquisition of Merrill had not contained misleading statements about the bonuses but argued that a $33m settlement, without admission of liability, was preferable to a protracted battle with one of its primary regulators “at a time of uncertain and difficult market conditions”.

BofA contributed to those “uncertain and difficult market conditions” through their previous actions. BofA should be shown no leniency. A $33M settlement on a $5.2B transaction isn’t even a rounding error. There’s no way the judge should accept this settlement. He should do whatever’s necessary to force the SEC to do its job.

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-14 02:07:22

Agree. It would be interesting to know if this judge is getting phone calls from people in high places, telling him to stay out of their business.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 10:35:09

These paltry penalties are the reason these behemoths do whatever they want, answering to nobody. Throughout this entire meltdown, there’s been absolutely ZERO accountability from those responsible. The movers and shakers of Wall St. orchestrated the largest ripoff in the history of mankind, and continue those same practices to this very day. When the meltdown happened, there was a window of opportunity for arrests, prosecutions, and claw-backs, and it was allowed to close. What transpired from then to now is EXACTLY what the pigmen wanted. They stole money, and got away with it. They continue to do so. I’d welcome a revolution before I’d ever stand for what’s going on. It’s disgusting.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-09-14 11:42:40

Until some of these chumps start checking in at the Grey Rock Hotel, nobody is going to take the government seriously.

Haven’t you guys heard? The crisis has past. Just getting back to business as usual.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-09-14 13:33:32

+1, Grizzly—it is disgusting.

My read of this “paltry penalty” is that it is not a penalty at all, and that is by design. In other words, the intent is not to punish BofA or change their behavior in any way.

The goal is simply to give the politicos cover against the anger bubbling in the populace.

It is a PR campaign, not a penalty.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 15:35:43

“paltry penalty … PR campaig”

Is it really either of those, or just an instance of the politicos’ famous inclination to mix up millions, billions and trillions?

 
Comment by tresho
2009-09-14 15:40:01

It is a PR campaign, not a penalty. A real penalty would be to claw those bonuses back, and pay them out as a special dividend on each Bank of America share held on the date of the merger.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 03:13:29

Heck, they were lucky to get that much!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 15:59:42

My hopes for the survival of our Constitutional form of government, with its system of checks and balances between the three branches, has been rekindled by this story.

Court rejects SEC settlement with BofA
By Greg Farrell in New York

Published: September 14 2009 18:09 | Last updated: September 14 2009 21:03

A US federal judge on Monday threw out a $33m settlement between the Securities and Exchange Commission and Bank of America over allegations BofA made misleading statements to shareholders, setting the stage for a trial next year that could embarrass the bank’s management.

Jed Rakoff, a US district judge, described last month’s proposed settlement as a “cynical” agreement that was “not only unfair but unreasonable”. He reiterated his concern that the original settlement failed to identify individuals responsible for the alleged misstatements.

In the proposed settlement, the SEC claimed BofA – in the November prospectus describing the acquisition of Merrill Lynch – had made misleading statements to shareholders when it said that no large bonuses would be paid to Merrill executives prior to the closing of the merger without BofA’s consent.

But there was a side agreement to the original merger document, struck in mid-September 2008, allowing Merrill to pay up to $5.8bn in bonuses. The SEC alleged that the side agreement, not included in the prospectus, amounted to a misleading statement on the part of BofA.

The bank agreed to settle the action for $33m last month, without admitting any liability – a standard component of SEC settlements. Under Mr Rakoff’s ruling, the SEC will have to prove its allegations at a trial.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 22:55:48

Another hero of American capitalism is born. You go, Vern!

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
SEPTEMBER 13, 2009, 7:05 P.M. ET
Who’s Too Big to Fail?

Regulators today won’t define ’systemic risk,’ unlike 25 years ago.

With Congress back in session and the anniversary of the Lehman Brothers failure upon us, the Obama Administration is resuming its quest for greatly expanded authority to bail out American businesses. Under the Treasury reform blueprint, any financial company, whether a regulated bank or not, could be rescued or seized by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation if regulators believe it poses a systemic risk.

If recent history is any guide, when the feds stage their next intervention, they will not define “systemic risk” and they will refuse to release the data underlying their decision. To this day, taxpayers can only guess at the specific reasons behind the ad hoc rescues that began with Bear Stearns in March of 2008. Now Team Obama seeks to codify the bailout policies of the last 18 months.

Before receiving authority for new adventures across U.S. commerce, financial regulators should explain their current interventions. The basic questions: How exactly does the government measure systemic risk, and how do regulators know that the U.S. economy can’t live without a particular firm? Americans still don’t know why Bear, Citigroup and AIG were saved, but Lehman wasn’t.

A recently-filed federal lawsuit seeks answers. Plaintiff Vern McKinley worked at the FDIC in the 1980s and is now suing his old employer, as well as the Federal Reserve. The two agencies have been stiff-arming his Freedom of Information Act requests on last year’s bailouts.

Last December, Mr. McKinley sent a FOIA request to the Fed to find out what Fed governors meant when they said a Bear Stearns failure would cause a “contagion.” This term was used in the publicly-released minutes of the Fed meeting at which the central bank discussed plans by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York to finance Bear’s sale to J.P. Morgan Chase. The minutes contained only the vague warning of doom, without any detail on how exactly the fall of Bear would destroy America. Mr. McKinley’s request sought the supporting documents for this conclusion.

He also requested minutes of the autumn FDIC board meeting at which regulators approved financing for a Citigroup takeover of Wachovia. To provide this assistance, the board had to invoke the “systemic risk” exception in the Federal Deposit Insurance Act, and therefore had to assert that such assistance was necessary for the health of the financial system. Yet days later, Wachovia cut a better deal to sell itself to Wells Fargo, instead of Citi. So how necessary was the FDIC’s offer of assistance?

After Mr. McKinley sued the agency this summer, the FDIC coughed up a previously undisclosed staff memo to the FDIC board. Again, the agency redacted the substance, providing roughly two pages of text from the nine-page original. The section of the memo titled “Systemic Risk” was entirely erased. As for the Fed, it blew off Mr. McKinely’s initial request and has since responded mainly with some highly uninformative letters from the Fed staff to Congress.

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-14 02:30:46

I spent many weeks last year writing, calling, and faxing various members of Congress, the White House, the Federal Reserve, and Treasury; trying to convince somebody that we shouldn’t bail out the very financial institutions that caused the credit “crisis.” All this was to no avail.

Is there any way we citizens force our regulators to open up all the books and have them explain **exactly** what would have happened if we had let all the weak financial institutions fail?

I’ve always said depositors need to be protected, but the various traders were taking on a lot of risk — and being handsomely rewarded for doing so over many months and years. Exactly why would their failure have led to financial armageddon?

Nobody has ever explained the precise steps that would have caused the demise of our entire financial system.

Would many traders have lost everything? Yes. Would many banks and financial firms have failed? Yes. Would interest rates be much higher, and underwriting be much more stringent? Yes, but that is a GOOD thing.

Would the FDIC, SIPC, and PBGC (among other govt “insurance” programs) be completely tapped-out? Probably, yes, but we’re already going there anyway. While I fully support protecting depositors, I see no reason to traders and institutions whose sole purpose is to trade and make profits, without doing anything productive in the process.

Why is it that unions and productive workers are marginalized, but the “captains of finance” are expected to be protected at all costs?

Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 06:39:37

I spent many weeks last year writing, calling, and faxing various members of Congress, the White House

———

I remember right before the TARP vote in the senate Diane Feinstein was on CNBC. She was asked what kind of input she got from her constituents. She said she received over 50,000 emails and phone calls and of those, 90% were against TARP. But she was going to vote for it.

I stopped making an effort to call my so-called representatives. Total waste of time.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 06:42:30

Dianne Feinstein? LOL - good luck with that one. She’d vote for a government ass-wiping service if meant more $$ funneled through DC.

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Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 06:58:12

True. But she was not the only one. The TARP vote got what 70 votes, even though every poll at the time was showing the public was against it. And I would be shocked if any of the 70 had more people call/email in favor of the bill than against.

To your senator you are a nuisance that has to be dealt with every 6 years and nothing more.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 08:26:38

Ca Renter …I did the exact thing your did at the time ,to no avail . “Systemic Risk” these days means chosen gamblers that need to be bailed out and avoid lawsuit . I also felt that only FDIC depositors
should of been protected and to hell with the unregulated
gambling and leveraging by 40x . Would the United States
be in bad shape if AIG had to sell off all it’s good divisions to pay for the division that made their casino bets ?

To me ,so much of the bail out’s were a attempt to avoid
the liability of the ponzi-scheme to begin with ,otherwise they would not of bailed out Investment firms and Insurance companies like AIG and indirectly Goldmans . Why should a guy like Hank Paulson be able to pick and choose who gets bailed out with this “Blank Check” at the time ? They could of just made monthly payments until the matter was investigated by a neutral panel, but instead we get this yelling “Fire ” in a movie house BS. The government has never explained why they couldn’t of made injections for lending on a monthly basis until the matter was investigated . So we are left with the corruption not corrected .

Way ahead of time you could see that the Powers were sitting up for a major bail out . If you even tried to make a movie about this ,it would be unbelievable .

And now the Politicians would like the American people to believe they are listening to them regarding health care reform,when in truth they are listening to the special interest groups ,like Health Insurance Companies .

Back in March of 2006 ,I never dreamed that Obstruction of Justice would be the game plan of the Powers that Be in response to the housing crash . This is what happens when corruption is so thick that you can cut it with a knife .

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 15:19:16

Great post Wiz.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 01:45:01

Second that. I always love your posts, Wiz.

 
 
 
Comment by James
2009-09-14 08:06:07

Is there any way we citizens force our regulators to open up all the books and have them explain **exactly** what would have happened if we had let all the weak financial institutions fail?

Yeah. Stop voting the same guys back into office.

Till we demand accountability and refuse to accept the fraud, this will continue.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 14:09:29

We want everyone else to quit sending their idiots back. But we want to send our own idiot back, because he brings home the bacon/pork.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 14:18:33

define “we”.

Not everyone looks at things/behaves that way. But yes, sadly a large part of the electorate does

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 15:20:32

alph: Pork (sic) Salad Annie, the gator’s got your granny.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-09-14 15:42:24

Not everyone looks at things/behaves that way.
Right, just the ones who keep voting incumbents back into office. They are the only ones that count.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 19:12:14

Hey ATE, I always wondered if polk salad annie and mustang sallie were related.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 19:14:06

sally (sic in the head)

 
 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-09-14 09:48:10

CA renter,

Undoubtedly, had the government not stepped in, there would have been another Great Depression. A few thoughts along with this:

1. I am not saying that we aren’t still heading into one, albeit more slowly.

2. I think a better process would be for our government to move the banks through bankruptcy and restructuring to unwind debt very quickly than just bailing them out. However, our system of government is incapable of that. So we are where we are.

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-09-14 15:09:25

What he said.

Rather than drop us frogs into the boiling pot, they have decided to cook us slowly, so maybe we don’t notice.

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Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 01:46:11

Yes, exactly right, x-GS.

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 11:20:21

“Is there any way we citizens force our regulators to open up all the books and have them explain **exactly** what would have happened if we had let all the weak financial institutions fail?”

No such books exist, unless you’re talking about the balance sheets of the extraordinarily wealthy. The bailout was to preserve them, nothing else. Paulson and Co. came up with a ruse to scare the sheeple into believing in the imminent collapse of society as we know it if we didn’t save these “too big to fail succeed” organizations.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 13:53:44

At least we are now completely certain of the collapse of “noblesse oblige.”

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Comment by Dale
2009-09-14 09:21:23

So much for transparency from the “Big O”!

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 09:55:11

I posted this yesterday, but I think it is pertinent to your post:

Risk-taking is back for banks 1 year after crisis-

NEW YORK – A year after the financial system nearly collapsed, the nation’s biggest banks are bigger and regaining their appetite for risk.

Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and others — which have received tens of billions of dollars in federal aid — are once more betting big on bonds, commodities and exotic financial products, trading that nearly stopped during the financial crisis.

That Wall Street is making money again in essentially the same ways that thrust the banking system into chaos last fall is reason for concern on several levels, financial analysts and government officials say.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_meltdown_same_old_wall_street

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 01:48:17

Kinda makes you sick to your stomach, doesn’t it? :(

 
 
Comment by Vern McKinley
2009-09-20 03:25:45

Thanks Professor Bear!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 23:04:39

Sorry if this article is a bit dated, but hopefully its timeless message will compensate.

The New Boom-Bust Cycle

The housing and finance sectors caused the economic mess. Here’s why they can’t fix it.

By Daniel Gross
Jun 17, 2009 | Updated: 11:01 a.m. ET Jun 17, 2009

The financial media are desperate to find good news in the troubled finance and housing sectors, the very industries that got us into this mess. This quest for green shoots is frequently comical. Today, the Wall Street Journalfeatured a piece about new jobs in the financial services industry. Why, JPMorgan hired 950 new loan counselors, and a former Morgan Stanley guy found a job with an asset-management company! But given that financial services firms have shed 600,000 jobs since December 2006, that hardly seems like a triumph.

On Tuesday, Bloomberg noted that housing starts were “soaring,” in May, up 17.2 percent from April. That’s up three straight months, the Journalchimed in. But housing is an extremely seasonal business. The CEO of a large bank once told me that his bank’s mortgage business all but disappeared in the fall because men in the Northeast wouldn’t look at houses on Sundays during the football season. So noting that housing starts or sales rose sequentially in the spring months is a little like saying traffic at the train station next to Yankee Stadium was up hugely in April, when 20 games were played, from March, when no games were played. What really matters is the comparison with the previous year. And the news is horrid on that front. “Year over year, housing starts were 45.2 percent lower than the pace of construction in May 2008,” the Journal noted.

If you’re waiting on housing and finance to get us out of the mess they caused, then you better pull up a comfortable chair and a bag of popcorn, because it’s going to be a long wait. Just as regulators always fight the last battle—regulating accounting after the dot-com meltdown, promising to regulate derivatives now—analysts always look to the last boom to cause the next one. The new reality is that the sector that dragged the economy down is never the one to lead the recovery.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 06:40:05

Maybe Bloomie meant housing starts were “sore-ing“, not “soaring”.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 23:06:40

The Bare Market
Scenes of Economic Desolation
By Kathy Jones

Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 03:23:11

I think my favorite pic is the first one of Rio Vista, CA followed by the one near Tucson where the houses cover about 70 or 80 percent of the lot - SFH only in name. Except for the stucco and tile, it could pass for a trailer park from a distance.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-09-14 07:27:32

Those are some pretty stark photos there.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 23:13:11

Green shoots bustin’ out all over…

So many real estate articles to post, so little time to post them all…

Boston’s Incredible Shrinking Skyscraper

The Hancock Tower lost half its value in a year. The rest of commercial real estate could be next.

By Daniel Gross | NEWSWEEK
Published Sep 4, 2009
From the magazine issue dated Sep 14, 2009

For most of its 34-year life, the Hancock Tower, which looms above its brick neighbors in Boston’s Back Bay, has been the sort of place where money comes to be managed and protected. Its tenants include Ernst & Young and the investment firm Highfields Capital. The I. M. Pei–designed sliver of glass doesn’t seem like a place where several hundred million dollars can vanish in a few months.

But that’s exactly what happened at the 62-story building, now under its fourth owner in six years. In January, an aggressive young wheeler-dealer defaulted on a portion of the building’s $1.3 billion mortgage just 24 months after buying it. In March, two firms that had purchased chunks of the tower’s second mortgage for pennies on the dollar assumed control, essentially rendering up to $400 million of debt worthless. The Hancock’s market value is now about $700 million—half what it appraised for less than two years ago.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-13 23:17:51

This seems like poor timing for a marital spat…

Sept. 13, 2009, 11:48 p.m. EDT

China mulls sanctions on U.S. imports of car parts, poultry

HONG KONG (MarketWatch) — China said Sunday it would launch an anti-dumping investigation into U.S. sales of chicken and auto products, a move apparently in response to Washington’s decision to impose punitive sanctions on Chinese tire imports late last week.

China’s Ministry of Commerce said it was starting proceedings after having received complaints that U.S. products were being sold in China at below-market prices, according to reports.

The ministry has denied that the actions against U.S. producers are a form of protectionism.

“China has consistently opposed trade protectionism, and the country’s actions since the financial crisis have reflected this stance,” The Wall Street Journal reported the ministry as saying.

“China is willing to continue to act in accordance with countries around the world to push forward the world’s economic recovery,” it said.

Comment by palmetto
2009-09-14 04:50:12

“China has consistently opposed trade protectionism”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! China opposes trade protectionism for other countries, not China.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-09-14 05:04:50

To be fair, pretty much every country acts the same way.

Comment by palmetto
2009-09-14 05:46:11

Except the US during the last decade, until now. Wonder what really prompted that tire tariff?

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Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 06:41:48

Are you serious with that question or being sarcastic? What prompted it was the unions said jump and Obama asked how high.

 
Comment by Skip
2009-09-14 07:35:03

Unions actually asked for quotas, not tariffs.

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 08:22:43

You sat to-may-to….Obama says to-ma-toe.

The result is the same, higher prices for tires for US consumers and the beginnings of a trade war with China all to please a Dem constituency.

(Yes I know that Bush did something bad too, no need to remind me).

 
Comment by Jon
2009-09-14 09:52:02

I’ll happily pay more for American made tires if it means more decent paying jobs for Americans.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-14 10:08:01

The “higher prices” crap doesn’t wash. Consumers will pay what the market will bear. Savings are not automatically passed on to the consumer.

Its like the BS we get told about textiles skyrocketing in price if they are made here. Socks aren’t any cheaper now that they are made in China as compared to when they were made in North Carolina.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 10:30:57

ditto

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 11:03:53

If it were up to the protectionists, we’d all be driving GM/Ford/Chrysler UAW made junk at inflated prices. All in the name of protecting “good paying jobs” from those evil Japanese. Save a few thousand jobs in Detroit but make hundreds of millions of cars buyers suffer with poor quality. Makes sense.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 13:59:02

Eddie, that’s not a few thousands, but a few HUNDRED thousand.

And it’s not just tires and cars, but EVERY industry. So now it millions of jobs.

I will ask you the same question that joey failed to answer: If your nation’s economic engine is 75% consumer driven, how do you sustain such an economy if your consumers… don’t have any money to consume? As in… jobs.

 
Comment by Northeastener
2009-09-14 14:02:13

If it were up to the protectionists, we’d all be driving GM/Ford/Chrysler UAW made junk at inflated prices.

Ask yourself why Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, and Mercedes all have assembly plants here in the US? I’ll give you a hint, it has something to do with import quota limits into the US, a form of protectionism. I wonder how many workers those companies employ here in the US?

Have the automobile import quotas limited choice or inflated prices? I’ll give you another hint, I drive an Infiniti G sedan with 327hp manufactured in Japan. The car’s performance can meet that of any European rival at a cost savings to me of 20%.

I think it was Henry Ford that said his workers should earn enough to afford the products they build… seems logical to me. You can’t afford much when your job is shipped overseas and you’re out of work.

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-09-14 15:26:36

I saw the way China plays the game up close, at my former employer….

They don’t put anything in writing. They just carefully explain to you that your paperwork applying to do business in China is going to get lost, unless you sign up to do a “joint venture” with a Chinese “partner”.

So, you get a joint-venture “partner”…….who quietly insinuates that, in order to promote an atmosphere of “trust”, you “share” all your intellectual property……….which is immediately copied, and shipped off to China.

I’ve seen our brainic company managers give away stuff that we took 20 years to develop……..hell, they didn’t even have to pay to use the copy machines………supposedly, the price we had to pay to “gain access to the market”.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 01:55:38

Comment by Jon
2009-09-14 09:52:02
I’ll happily pay more for American made tires if it means more decent paying jobs for Americans.

————————-

Ditto that, X1,000,000.

 
 
 
Comment by James
2009-09-14 08:10:28

Odd. When you are in China, there are high tariffs on American goods. Strange eh.

Comment by Skip
2009-09-14 12:54:10

China canceled the 25% tariff on American made auto parts just last week. And just in time to re-instate them. Funny how that all works out.

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-09-14 04:56:05

Washington’s giveaways to the auto industry are well documented…but in fairness to the Chinese, the allegation that U.S. agribusiness subsidies are so deeply entrenched as to lead to unfair competition isn’t a big stretch of the imagination either.

The supposedly “non-socialist” flyover states that are amongst the reddest in the country would scream bloody murder without huge subsidies for a relatively small number of large farming operations. They are the original Too Big to Fail industry, and their senators are committed to keeping it that way.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the banking system can’t already be considered de facto subsidized in much the same way…by stealth tax breaks, implicit guarantees like TARP and AIG nationalization, assumption of the downside of systemic risk and changes in accounting/transparency rules…even if they pay back their direct bailout.

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 21:46:02

Implicit?

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 09:58:37

Bring on a trade war with these SOB’s.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-14 12:04:24

Yeah…and they will blockade Taiwan….then what?

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 12:56:00

Nukes, of course. :)

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 00:52:13

Here’s a Sunday night, Monday morning chuckle

Billionaires for Wealthcare thank teabaggers for their support:

http://tinyurl.com/ozlzjj

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 03:23:05

Remember the “Save a CEO” video on You Tube?

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 01:05:41

Stiglitz Says Banking Problems Are Now Bigger Than Pre-Lehman
By Mark Deen and David Tweed

Sept. 13 (Bloomberg) — Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel Prize- winning economist, said the U.S. has failed to fix the underlying problems of its banking system after the credit crunch and the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.

“In the U.S. and many other countries, the too-big-to-fail banks have become even bigger,” Stiglitz said in an interview today in Paris. “The problems are worse than they were in 2007 before the crisis.”

Stiglitz’s views echo those of former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, who has advised President Barack Obama’s administration to curtail the size of banks, and Bank of Israel Governor Stanley Fischer, who suggested last month that governments may want to discourage financial institutions from growing “excessively.”

A year after the demise of Lehman forced the Treasury Department to spend billions to shore up the financial system, Bank of America Corp.’s assets have grown and Citigroup Inc. remains intact. In the U.K., Lloyds Banking Group Plc, 43 percent owned by the government, has taken over the activities of HBOS Plc, and in France BNP Paribas SA now owns the Belgian and Luxembourg banking assets of insurer Fortis.

While Obama wants to name some banks as “systemically important” and subject them to stricter oversight, his plan wouldn’t force them to shrink or simplify their structure.

Stiglitz said the U.S. government is wary of challenging the financial industry because it is politically difficult…

Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 03:05:55

“Stiglitz said the U.S. government is wary of challenging the financial industry because it is politically difficult…”

It would be an easy sell with the public, not so much with those financing campaigns.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 04:57:48

What would be an easy sell? What is that guy promoting?

He seems to be saying that big banks are a bad thing to have. That’s the “problem” he wants to cure.
He says nothing about what caused all banks, large and small, to get into trouble in the first place. He just doesn’t like something being “big to fail”.

ok fine.. some people might agree that “too big to fail” may be problem.

———-

But lets examine the alternative. Presume we only have small banks. We then have a housing bubble.

Having shallow pockets is a vulnerability when things go wrong. Being MORE VULNERABLE to serious downturns than large banks, just about ALL the small banks fail.

Government is forced to bail out the small banks because.. well… we need a banking system. Cumulatively, small banks are “Too big to fail”.
So what’s the difference?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 05:12:32

This is clearly the best of all possible worlds, and anyone who tries to think of a way to improve it is running a fool’s errand.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 05:30:31

PB.. i don’t get you.. best of all possible worlds?

Whats’ the difference between us bailing out tons of small banks or a few big banks? Does one scenario cost us less money than the other? Is one or the other systems any more or less stable?

Bailing out banks, no matter if they be big or small, is something govt must deal with if collapse of the banking system is considered eminent. Limiting the size of banks solves nothing.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 10:24:24

Large banks are much more effective at buying congress. I’d rather have a bunch of small banks that don’t agree on what should be done or how much they should donate to buy a congressman.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-09-14 15:46:35

Limiting the size of banks solves nothing.
This statement makes no sense.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 05:21:44

‘Cumulatively, small banks are “Too big to fail”.
So what’s the difference?’

If no banks were ’sytemically risky’ — i.e., so large that one large bank’s failure could bring down the entire financial system — then it would be hard for any individual bank to build its business plan around using the implicit threat of failure to extract a subsidy flow of too-big-to-fail bailout insurance premiums out of the government.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 05:37:19

oh .. now i see.. you’re stuck on that idea that big banks had a plan.. destroy themselves and the industry in order to ‘extract’ a bailout, along with their being fearless of failure.

OK.. and you think small “banksters” are too stupid to realize that THEY must be bailed out when the SHTF?

Do you imagine “small bank” Executives are immune to the same greed and corruption you accuse big bank execs of being prone to?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 06:49:59

“…you’re stuck on that idea that big banks had a plan…”

No. I am stuck on the idea that big banks, like little banks, are run by mammals, and mammals habituate. Create a risk management regime which is ripe for exploitation, and smart bank managers will definitely figure out how to exploit it…

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 07:30:23

ok then.. tell me what would happen differently if there were no banks “too big to fail” back in 2001.

Would those legions of smaller banks, knowing they are the core of the banking system and guaranteed to be bailed out (if necessary) feel any unacceptable amounts of risk in financing the housing mania?

Would wall street investors have begged for less MBS? Would the entire economy not have ballooned?

Would the bubble not have eventually popped, and would govt not have stepped in to avoid a meltdown?
———-

imo, a system populated by smaller banks would have changed absolutely nothing. Despite the understandable angst over big banks getting bailed out, bank size was not and is not the core problem.

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 07:53:51

imo, a system populated by smaller banks would have changed absolutely nothing. Despite the understandable angst over big banks getting bailed out, bank size was not and is not the core problem.

That’s probably correct. The financial institutions in the S&L bailout in the late 80s/early 90s were not as large as those now, but there was a still a bailout. It’s just more massive with larger institutions this time.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 08:13:29

imo, a system populated by smaller banks would have changed absolutely nothing. Despite the understandable angst over big banks getting bailed out, bank size was not and is not the core problem.

I can’t agree with this. I understand your point, but I see the difference similar to what PB is saying. The more individual actors you have, the more diverse a system you have. If you don’t bail out any of the banks, and let them fail, they likely won’t all fail. Regardless, no single one creates a systemic risk. So, the first one or two fail, and the rest realize they better change their behavior or they too will be allowed to fail. Banks can learn their “lesson” without bringing down the banking system in the process.

With large, TBTF banks, people find it unfeasible to let that happen..because of the systemic risk.

Sure, if you assume that all banks will fail, then being big or small doesn’t matter. But the reality is they won’t all fail at once, and by letting them fail, others will see that they need to change their behavior. OR, the banks that had sound business practices will grow as they take on the business of the failed banks. Right now, by bailing out the big banks, those banks with sound practices are being selected AGAINST rather than FOR.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 10:26:02

The other problem with large banks is that if one goes down it puts the fear of god in the market. You could close down smaller banks of equal value and spread it out and not cause the same kind of panic. They are doing this every Friday and it never makes the press.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 11:48:15

drumminj, there was no opportunity for banks to see others failing, and “change their ways”.

The failure of the entire system (if left to it’s own free market devices) was baked into the Bubble. There was no escape once the trap snapped shut.

I do understand your and PB’s viewpoint. It’s the most obvious view, especially with the benefit of hindsight. The problem is NONE of the players had any foresight.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 12:27:06

joey you’re not getting the point. The point isn’t that the crash wouldn’t have happened if there were only small banks - the point is that the bubble itself wouldn’t have happened, or at least the scale of it would have been much, much smaller.

The banks didn’t start failing until 2007 because home prices didn’t start falling until then. But home prices didn’t start falling until then because lending standards had gone out the window, due to the influence of the large banks. This drove up artificial housing demand, which enabled prices to continue their insane incline into 2006.

If lending standards had been tighter (e.g. as maintained on a more local basis, and not backed by F/F/etc.), then home prices would have started falling back in probably the 2003-2004 timeframe. Thus banks would have started failing then as well, before the bubble really gathered steam in 2005-2006. Probably 80% of the actual bubble’s mass happened in just those two years.

This is assuming of course the same amount of insane Fed funds rate handling. If Megabank didn’t exist though that probably wouldn’t have happened either.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 14:20:08

The S&L’s crashed and burned, and they were small. It all comes down to regulation. There’s no magical size that will stop people gambling with OPM. Small banks will join together and lobby for less oversight just as well as big banks. And they’ll succeed until we get campaign finance and lobbying reform. That’s the real nut of this whole problem. Big money overrides everything in DC.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 15:40:44

There was a bubble during the buildup to the S&L crisis, but relatively speaking to the post-1998 bubble, the S&L bubble was “contained.” I maintain the LTCM bailout and similar precedents set the stage for a massive bloom of too-big-to-fail financial entities, which morphed into a too-many-to-rescue problem when the largest housing bubble in history collapsed on itself.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 17:28:23

“I do understand your and PB’s viewpoint. It’s the most obvious view, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

Hindsight can provide the necessary foresight to change the rules of the game so the same mistakes are not repeated over and over and over again. Like, for instance, avoiding policy regimes which encourage Megabank, Inc cartel members to take dumb looking gambles with the full knowledge that if everything blows up, bailouts will make most of them whole again.

“The problem is NONE of the players had any foresight.”

Plenty of players had foresight. How do you think so many of them were able to keep getting paid mulit-billions of dollars in bonuses despite the global financial system’s brush with all-out collapse last fall?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 19:53:16

The S&L bubble only seems contained in retrospect; at the time, everyone pooped their pants at the cost. I agree that smaller banks lessen systemic risk in many ways, but they aren’t a panacea. We still need regulation. Enforced regulation.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 06:55:43

Bailouts would not have been necessary if we only had small banks, for several reasons:

- The big banks are generally the ones who created and used the complex derivatives that hid the risk. Smaller banks generally just aren’t as “innovative” (I used that term deragatorily), and even if they are they generally aren’t as able to push it as much to the general financial community.

- The big banks are farther removed from the end customers, and thus are much more likely to loan $700,000 to strawberry pickers, etc.

- As stated - the big banks are simply willing to take on more risk, because of their *individual* TBTF status. You have to look at that, not of the banking industry as a whole. While it’s true that (hypothetically) if we did have the same bubble and it was only small banks, then some portion of the small banks may end up getting bailed out (assuming the same level of Fed/gov corruption/stupidity), however the key is they don’t know which ones. GS, JPM, Citi, BofA knew that they would get bailed out, because of their size and political connections. If instead you’re one of 8,000 small banks (or probably 15,000 or so if the biggies didn’t exist) - you don’t know whether you’d get bailed out or not, so you don’t take as much risk.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 08:48:29

I agree with your post packman . The big elephant in the room
was the unregulated world of banking that was leveraging by
40x . These unregulated entities were providing a huge amount of funds that fueled the housing boom ,these entities provided a lot of non-conforming loans at the time that were in the higher loan amounts . I suspect that they mixed good loans with bad
loans with these loan bundles ,but they also failed to police the underwriting that was being done .

Wall Street was getting very rich by selling these securities to
the open market with those crazy CDO trenches that didn’t measure risk in any reasonable manner . The side bets with Insurance Companies like AIG ,that didn’t really have the money to pay on the bet, is the other elephant in the room .

So, this whole breakdown goes beyond just regulated banks .It was the faulty system the Wall Street Fat Cats designed after de-regulation to make money from money poring in from all over the World from people chasing yields .

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 09:27:50

Big banks are not further from the end customer.

That BofA bank on the corner is no different than a small regional bank from the customer’s point of view.

Small banks try to claim it, and claim they offer better, more personal service, but from my experience it’s not at all true.
——

Big banks did not take on more risk. Big banks have deep pockets and can recover much more easily.

If there are two banks, one big and one small, and both lend $700K to strawberry pickers, which is putting itself at more risk of failure?

(btw.. does anyone know which bank actually lent that money to the strawberry picker? … back around ‘05?)
—–

It might seem like the great big banks felt they enjoyed a TBTF status, guaranteed to be bailed out, and could gamble as wildly as they pleased, but don’t try to tell that to the all the big banks that were allowed to fail.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 10:20:11

Big banks are not further from the end customer.

That BofA bank on the corner is no different than a small regional bank from the customer’s point of view.

I’m not talking about from the customer’s point of view, I’m talking about from the bank’s point of view. Big banks’ risk assessments are farther removed from the actual communities, so they can’t get as good a feel “on the street” if you will of problems. They don’t read the local newspapers to see areas that are better, to see proposals for tax increases that can increase risk, etc. etc.

The key though is simply that the risk is lumped into one large pool. Each individual loan approval doesn’t have as much vested interest in the success of the company, and thus due diligence isn’t performed as thoroughly as it should be.

I am generalizing here - I know that many large banks probably do keep tabs on local issues to some extent, and conversely many local banks (especially larger regional ones) do have larger risk pools. In general though I think the theory is true - the larger a bank is, by nature the larger the overall risk is, compared with an equal-sized sum of smaller banks. It’s the same concept as investment diversification - just the existence of many variances in strategy reduces the risk.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 11:09:17

packman.. i won’t deny that putting too much faith in a few large entities might be dangerous, but where’s the proof that smaller banks deserve any respect?

Who can say what would have happened if a system of small banks suffered that bubble.
Perhaps we wouldn’t experience the exact same troubles we have with govt intervention. Perhaps the troubles would be different.. and more serious.. and the govt’s remedies even more distasteful.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 11:37:29

packman.. i won’t deny that putting too much faith in a few large entities might be dangerous, but where’s the proof that smaller banks deserve any respect?

Who can say what would have happened if a system of small banks suffered that bubble.
Perhaps we wouldn’t experience the exact same troubles we have with govt intervention. Perhaps the troubles would be different.. and more serious.. and the govt’s remedies even more distasteful.

I can offer no proof. Unfortunately in a system as complex as economics - proof of practically any theory (including and perhaps especially Keynesian theory) is virtually impossible, simply due both to the complexity of the system. There are simply too many variables.

You have to go with logic. Logic dictates that:
A. A large volume of smaller banks will have a wider variety of products/investments in their portfolio than an equal-sized volume of large banks. This in itself will reduce risk.
B. Smaller banks have a larger percentage of their risk tied up into each individual account, thus will be more diligent at calculating each account’s risk.
C. Smaller banks are less apt to have influence of specific federal government policies which can affect the risk equation (e.g. the 2004 SEC rule change removing margin restrictions for the 5 big investment banks).
D. Smaller banks will not have the implicit backstop guarantee of the government (taxpayers), because they’re not too big to fail. This in itself will make each one more wary of risk and thus more conservative in their loaning.

This is not to say that there aren’t small banks that take big risks - there are tons of them, many being shut down every day by the FDIC. But they’re not causing the great harm to the economy the way the big banks do - either in the form of system shocks when they’re allowed to fail, or the damage to the overall economy when they’re bailed out (again - something that can’t be proven, but which logic would dictate).

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 12:02:21

Joey ,Big banks were more-so in bed with Wall Street with the secondary marketing of real estate securities . A big bank will have more of a effect on the market ,in terms of how they are lending ,than a small bank . For instance ,CountryWide ,who is actually a mortgage Company , set underwriting standards and loan programs and influenced the market in terms of what smaller banks had to do to make loans . The corruption with the CEO of CountryWide at the time extends to a self interest with pumping up the price of the stock by being a greedy lose goose with the lending .
. In other words ,if you have corruption by a Big Entity ,
it will trickle down ,usually not the other way around .

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 12:58:05

Here’s what i see as the core problem. Nobody was watching the store. Nobody expected the break-in. Everyone was too busy making lots of money.

Who can we entrust with oversight? Who has no ax to grind.. no agenda.. and yet has insight as well as the power to regulate markets?

And we must put our faith in them when they claim there’s a potentially dangerous “bubble forming”, and willingly allow our desire to make money to be throttled back.

There’s no such thing at this time. Not the Fed.. not government.. and not in the free market. The free market might be capable, but it’s also prone to self destruct with just a bit of encouragement.

 
Comment by james
2009-09-14 13:45:29

It seems like the business of securtization and individual banker were sperate it might be a good idea.

That way if a big bank, that is into securitization, goes belly up from too much risk it doesn’t drag down the FDIC.

So, in ye olde days of the 90s, I think a commercial bank like Lehman or bank of Italy doesn’t have as much systemic risk. Basically a tiered system is somewhat less efficient but more more stable.

Man, it used to be like some law that we used to keep this from happening and it might have come from the lessons learned in the great depression….

PB is probably thinking about requiring banks to hold on to loans till after first reset. I’m also thinking option arm loans should be held until recast. Local bank has to hold it means they will be more conservative.

Also, PB is a bit of a gold bug. Hope he realizes this would be large scale deflation.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 14:25:03

Joey, they knew.

Perhaps you still believe in the corporate model taught in your school. Let me tell you how it really works.

Corporations are nothing but a vehicle for the personal enrichment of the BOD. Period. Not the shareholders, not the investors (unless they are on the BOD) and certainly not the community or society at large.

Maybe you missed the whole “corporate raider” thing from the 80s. The formula is: Take over corporation. “Slash and burn” costs no matter the consequences. Sell either your newly inflated stock or the entire company to another sucker. Move on to next victim. Multiplied by a thousand.

So joey, they knew. And they got away with it because people still believe it was some complex act of god when it was nothing short corporate coup de’ tat of our government.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 15:35:32

ecofeco .. i will never believe they knew. They’d have to be suicidal maniacs to know what was coming and still do what they did.

You can subscribe to PB’s theory that the corporate officers who got paid bonuses knew.
They got the munchies and killed the goose that lays the golden eggs.. Destroyed their own companies, their industries and their own personal reputations while defrauding everyone else and, in addition, somehow foresaw that their companies would be bailed out while so many of the same type and size companies were allowed to fail.. but it makes zero sense to me. ZERO.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 16:28:16

james.. the problem with banks holding loans it is drains their money.

Lets say you are a bank. You have $30,000 to lend, and you lend it to me. You are now broke. You have to wait til I repay it (or perhaps until a rate reset ) but in the meantime you are of no benefit to anyone.

When one of your good old customers, the local gas station, wants to replace a couple broken pumps and needs a loan, you can’t help them. So, his business income falls and he’s forced to lay off two of his employees.

otoh, if you waste no time selling my $30,000 loan to someone, you immediately get that money back and could lend it to the gas station.. and two people don’t get laid off.
—–

Securitization is nothing but pooling bank’s loans while offering them for sale to whoever wants to make an investment. A “security” is created. The practice distributes the risk among many different investors.

If I default on my $30,000 loan, the loss is widely distributed in a tiny amount for each investor who owns the related security. The bank doesn’t take a $30K hit.
Securitization reduces a bank’s risk.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 17:04:00

Sociopathy rarely does. That’s why we put sociopaths in jail. Unless you’re “TBTF.”

It’s really quite simple: they got rich. Think of it as strip mining. Or clear cutting. Or overfishing. It’s all the same and the human race has a very, very long and rich history of doing it.

But joey, they knew. Have you looked up all the investigations and prosecutions going on? Try Google News.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 17:38:27

“…the problem with banks holding loans it is drains their money.”

How does holding loans compare with holding toxic assets than nobody will touch?

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 18:28:56

..How does holding loans compare with holding toxic assets than nobody will touch?

Holding assets? I’m not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean REOs that nobody will touch?

Loans are assets.. they can be sold for cash. Bad mortgage loans might be considered toxic assets.

A bank that’s stuck holding bad-anything is.. “bad” for that bank. If the objective is to maintain a healthy banking industry and healthy banks, they should be encouraged to sell their loans and reduce their risk. Let someone else absorb the losses from toxic assets.

It’s too bad that private investors are not interested in mortgages, and that the GSEs are forced to support banks by purchasing mortgage backed securities banks generate, but the same question arises: Do we want to see banks fail or not?

Anyone who perceives the direct connection between having food on the table and having a healthy banking industry will want banks to be healthy.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 19:49:35

“Do you mean REOs that nobody will touch?”

MBS the market values at levels where no bank is willing to part with them.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 19:51:40

“Do we want to see banks fail or not?”

Only the ones which engaged in suicidal banking practices.

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 07:59:35

What would be an easy sell? What is that guy promoting?

He seems to be saying that big banks are a bad thing to have. That’s the “problem” he wants to cure.

Breaking up big financial institutions or big corporations in general would be a very easy sell to the general public in the current environment. That’s not to say it would be the most appropriate course of action in every case, necessarily. However, I think a second coming of Teddy Roosevelt with regard to trust busting would play very, very well.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 12:05:01

agreed the sheep can be easily led..

“Yeah.. lets bust up WalMart. Why? Who cares why.. I think they are prejudiced against little old ladies or something like that. Lets bust up Microsoft too while we’re at it.”

Leno’s street walking skits offer insight into how much average people know or care about what’s going on.

Changes will or won’t be made by the controllers, and in ways favorable to them… the PTB… the Big money and Big politics and Big media.. the same PTB which some would like to see reigned in.

Well, they ain’t gonna go willingly.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 15:05:38

First ,loans can be designed to create non=risk -if you underwrite proper ,but they didn’t do that during the boom . The problem still goes back to the fraud market where the bankers breached their duty to underwrite loans and appraisers just went with hit the mark appraisals ,and the rating agencies rated junk paper as AAA ,and Wall Streets models on CDO risks were faulty . To many funds were coming in from to many sources that were looking for investment ,so Wall Street was more than willing to run up the price of real estate by placing this money in loans ,and Greenspan helped by keeping the interest rates low . Cheap money and easy money are 2 different things . Easy money is no down payment and no
qualifying ,or lenders closing their eyes to the real income the person has ,and cheap money is Greenspan keeping the rates low .
Same thing happened in 1929 when cheap easy money on margin was directed toward the stock market ,driving it up ,
and than it crashed and the loans for stocks on margin were due .

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 19:55:24

“The problem still goes back to the fraud market where the bankers breached their duty to underwrite loans and appraisers just went with hit the mark appraisals ,and the rating agencies rated junk paper as AAA ,and Wall Streets models on CDO risks were faulty .”

Those banking practices sound suicidal. If you rescue banks which throw away money, soon you see banks throwing away money for the sake of getting rescued. If you only rescue the biggest banks, pretty soon you see banks trying to grow bigger and throwing away money to play a heads-we-win-tails-you-lose gambling game with the rescuers.

Why this is so hard for Joey to grasp I will never know, but I am tired of ’splaining.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 02:55:45

You did well, PB. ;)

 
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 03:24:49

“Stiglitz said the U.S. government is wary of challenging the financial industry because it is politically difficult…”

What a nice and polite way of saying “Owns yo butt.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 05:06:07

“Stiglitz Says Banking Problems Are Now Bigger Than Pre-Lehman”

‘Tis merely a flesh wound!

Comment by polly
2009-09-14 09:51:57

‘Tis not so deep as a well, nor as wide as a church door, but mind you ’tis enough.

Comment by DennisN
2009-09-14 11:47:20

Ask for me tomorrow, and you shall find me a grave man.

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Comment by polly
2009-09-14 15:30:15

;)

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 10:05:26

I posted a link to a similar article which hasn’t shown up. Here’s a fun little quote from it:

“…in the second quarter, the five biggest banks’ average potential losses from a single day of trading topped $1 billion, up 76 percent from two years ago, according to regulatory filings.

The government hasn’t just watched banks resume their freewheeling ways and prosper. It has been an enabler in the process.”

Megabank Inc. has not only not learned it’s lesson, it’s levered up even more than during the boom era of a few years ago. This is the moral hazard so often talked about. Something really big is going to happen, I’m just not sure what and when.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 10:42:21

There’s a new 1700 page bill in the house which is being referred to as “TARP on steroids”. It allows the Treasury access to “unlimited” funds for companies deemed “too big to fail”.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 11:08:38

From Obama’s speech today:

“Unfortunately, there are some in the financial industry who are misreading this moment. Instead of learning the lessons of Lehman and the crisis from which we are still recovering, they are choosing to ignore them. They do so not just at their own peril, but at our nation’s. So I want them to hear my words: We will not go back to the days of reckless behavior and unchecked excess at the heart of this crisis, where too many were motivated only by the appetite for quick kills and bloated bonuses. Those on Wall Street cannot resume taking risks without regard for consequences, and expect that next time, American taxpayers will be there to break their fall.”

Really? Then why has this behavior been allowed thus far? Why has the administration done NOTHING? Why is there a 1700 page bill in the works, referred to as “TARP on steroids”, giving the Treasury unlimited funds, with little transparency, to rescue banks deemed “too big to fail”? I ask these questions as someone who voted for Obama.

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 14:29:02

Rome wasn’t dismantled and rebuilt in a day. (Or even eight months.)

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 14:48:54

They can’t do anything. The Blue Dogs are sabotaging everything. So even if the Dems grew a spine, they still don’t really have a majority.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 16:23:22

Rome also was not built in one day, but neither was Syracuse.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 18:37:34

Syracuse took a week and a half.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 02:00:10

In FTSE’s worst year ever, executive pay leaps 10%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/14/executive-pay-keeps-rising

Higher executive compensation for poor performance is alive and well on both sides of the pond.

“Executives at Britain’s top companies saw their basic salaries leap 10% last year, despite the onset of the worst global recession in decades, in which their companies lost almost a third of their value amid a record decline in the FTSE.”

“The Guardian data also shows that a coterie of elite bosses at the helm of multinational corporations are seeing their overall pay packets soar ever higher. The 10 most highly paid executives earned a combined £170m last year – up from £140m in 2007. Five years ago, the top 10 banked some £70m.”

“In the wake of the banking crisis, there has been a wave of shareholder revolts over directors’ remuneration. But even if investors vote against over-generous boardroom payouts, companies are not obliged to take their views into account.”

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-14 02:18:23

The 10 most highly paid executives earned a combined £170m last year – up from £140m in 2007. Five years ago, the top 10 banked some £70m.
—————————————–

That’s pretty stunning when you consider that 2004 was a very bubbly year vs. 2008 and 2009.

Pitchforks, yet?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 03:26:49

Brains first. But don’t hold your breath. The proles peasants sheep zombies people will NEVER figure it out.

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 03:33:13

“Pitchforks, yet?”

I’m way past pitchforks. Maybe some of those WF execs should spend some time living in the South Central shacks they financed instead of partying in a Malibu beach house.

…or maybe a HBB carnival game where the execs get dunked into a shark tank. I think I’d like that.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-09-14 05:34:08

The Maya and Aztecs had it right…bloody sacrifices on the altar of the pyramids to ensure ongoing prosperity. Eventually their civilization collapsed as they were looted by opportunistic foreigners.

The only difference with our culture is that the pyramids of today are Ponzi schemes, and the opportunistic foreigners are using financial instruments instead of guns.

2012 will be an interesting year for both cultures.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-14 13:26:58

2012 will be an interesting year for both cultures.

Haw haw! Nice.

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 10:29:29

You won’t see pitchforks until
1. Inflation reaches double digets
2. Unemployment goes to 15+% and unemployment starts running out.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 14:52:48

We’re already there. Just not “officially.”

Ain’t workin’ is it? As a nation, we’re just too stupid.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 02:55:00

Stiglitz Says Banking Problems Are Now Bigger Than Pre-Lehman

Sept. 13 (Bloomberg) — Joseph Stiglitz, the Nobel Prize- winning economist, said the U.S. has failed to fix the underlying problems of its banking system after the credit crunch and the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.

“In the U.S. and many other countries, the too-big-to-fail banks have become even bigger,” Stiglitz said in an interview today in Paris. “The problems are worse than they were in 2007 before the crisis.”

Stiglitz’s views echo those of former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker, who has advised President Barack Obama’s administration to curtail the size of banks, and Bank of Israel Governor Stanley Fischer, who suggested last month that governments may want to discourage financial institutions from growing “excessively.”

A year after the demise of Lehman forced the Treasury Department to spend billions to shore up the financial system, Bank of America Corp.’s assets have grown and Citigroup Inc. remains intact. In the U.K., Lloyds Banking Group Plc, 43 percent owned by the government, has taken over the activities of HBOS Plc, and in France BNP Paribas SA now owns the Belgian and Luxembourg banking assets of insurer Fortis.

While Obama wants to name some banks as “systemically important” and subject them to stricter oversight, his plan wouldn’t force them to shrink or simplify their structure.

Stiglitz said the U.S. government is wary of challenging the financial industry because it is politically difficult, and that he hopes the Group of 20 leaders will cajole the U.S. into tougher action.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 02:57:45

“If this crisis proves nothing else, it proves you cannot help people by lending them more money than they can pay back.” ~Phil Gramm

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 03:30:13

…says the man who authored the repeal of the Glass Stegal Act.

Irony? Hypocrisy? Ignorance? Hubris? It wobbles the mind!

Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 04:10:47

“If this crisis proves nothing else, it proves you cannot help people by lending them more money than they can pay back.” ~Phil Gramm

“Irony? Hypocrisy? Ignorance? Hubris? It wobbles the mind!”

Should anything more have been expected from the charlatan that authored the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act?

Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 05:18:38

Miles of rope have been readied for Philbert Gramm. Why the thieving pirate isn’t in prison is a true mystery.

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Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 06:44:51

Mystery solved: We do not imprison people for being capitalists….yet.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 07:37:53

I know…. Poor Philbert. So oppressed…. so victimized.

 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-14 08:43:32

We do not imprison people for being capitalists….yet.

Why would you want to imprison someone for being a capitalist? What would you rather have? A socialist? At least the capitalist knows where his money is coming from. The socialist assumes the money is coming from somewhere….

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 09:13:57

Since when was Philbert a crapitalist?

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 11:12:14

Stpn2me:

Damn, my sarcasm didn’t come across very well. The yet, was meant to mean that give it time and the current regime will start imprisoning people for being capitalists. After all, anyone who opposes government run health care is already a lying racist teabagging racist liar who is racist and lies. Same goes for capitalists no doubt.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 12:08:19

“lying racist teabagging racist liar who is racist and lies.”

Thank you for that admission. It appears to be quite accurate.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 14:59:30

Eddie, if you can’t tell the difference between capitalism and theft, you are in for a world of hurt and some awfully nasty surprises in life.

BTW, do you know how many depressions and recessions our “capitalist” country has had since its inception? You might want to look that up.

 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 07:00:58

…says the man who authored the repeal of the Glass Stegal Act.

Don’t forget his sequel of CDS deregulation the next year, in the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. Gramm’s got two big strikes against him in causing the housing bubble.

I put him up there with Bush, Clinton, and Frank as one of the top 5 single people responsible for the bubble, with Greenspan of course ruling the roost.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 11:14:03

He’s known as “the high priest of deregulation”. Let’s also not forget his idiotic comment denying the recession last summer, stating that the US was in a “mental recession”.

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 11:28:38

He’s a Texan.

Idiocy, along with corruption, cronyism, and venality are acceptable for anyone who says, “Ah’m a Christian.”

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 15:27:48

“Idiocy, along with corruption, cronyism, and venality are acceptable for anyone who says, “Ah’m a Christian.””

You just described the core element of whats left of the GnOP.

 
 
 
Comment by Jon
2009-09-14 10:02:55

“…says the man who authored the repeal of the Glass Stegal Act.

Irony? Hypocrisy? Ignorance? Hubris? It wobbles the mind!”

How about ignorance? My guess is that he is just figuring out that “If this crisis proves nothing else, it proves you cannot help people by lending them more money than they can pay back.”

Phil Gramm has always been a dolt. Sadly, he has a lot in common with his fellow lawmakers.

Comment by Al
2009-09-14 12:09:34

You know though, if Phil has learned such an important lesson as this, then the whole recession is well worth it. That’s big time ROI.

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Comment by james
2009-09-14 12:14:38

“If this crisis proves anything its that we should have shoved the microphone up you ass Phil. “~James from the HBB

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 03:56:14

Jackson calls for bailout change
The Post and Courier September 14, 2009

A year after the Wall Street meltdown that sucked up billions in government bailout money, millions of Americans are still in big trouble unless the plan is seriously overhauled, the Rev. Jesse Jackson said Sunday in North Charleston.

“There’s a transfusion at the top and hemorrhaging at the bottom,” the longtime civil rights leader and Greenville native said at a news conference at Charity Missionary Baptist Church.

Jackson, who also is a Baptist minister, was in town to honor the Rev. Nelson B. Rivers III, the former NAACP leader who is celebrating his first anniversary as pastor at Charity.

Jackson delivered the sermon during the anniversary service. But before the service started, he spent about 30 minutes talking with reporters and church members about jobs and health insurance.

The bailout money has not been used to create new jobs, Jackson said. Instead, unemployment continues to rise.

“It’s time … to use that money to invest in America,” he said. “There must be some plan to link bailing out banks and … putting America back to work.”

A key part of the plan must be revising our foreign trade policy, Jackson said. Otherwise, there’s no way American workers can compete with cheap foreign labor, he said.

“We have a tremendous crisis in manufacturing deficit and trade deficit,” he said. “The problem we have today is the unevenness of the field.”

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-09-14 05:03:41

“It’s time … to use that money to invest in America,” he said. “There must be some plan to link bailing out banks and … putting America back to work.”

A key part of the plan must be revising our foreign trade policy, Jackson said. Otherwise, there’s no way American workers can compete with cheap foreign labor, he said.

Even though he has become a bit of a laughingstock in the national political dialogue, he is being very reasonable here.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 06:06:03

Yes he is and I agree with every word Jessie said. He did stand out on this one, for sure.

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 03:02:50

Yep. Personally, I dislike Jessie Jackson rather intensely, but oddly find myself agreeing with him here.

+100 for the Reverend Jackson! :)

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Comment by Al
2009-09-14 07:34:57

“…there’s no way American workers can compete with cheap foreign labor…”

Is the US still a Capitalist nation?

Capitalism = competition

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 08:14:29

Once again when has the US been a capitalist nation?

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Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-14 08:45:18

Once again when has the US been a capitalist nation?

Before liberal ideology gained popularity…

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 09:25:23

The squeaky clean intelligent image of a chair force officer just got shattered.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 09:49:41

And it has worked so well under conservative ideology?

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 10:08:28

Throwing politics into the mix ducks the real question. Is there a willingness to stick to Capitalism when the going gets tough? The Western World was happy to praise Capitalism when it had all the strategic advantages (mostly technology), but what about now when the playing field has levelled?

Note: I agree with Packman’s below regarding standards for the environment, safety, etc.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2009-09-14 14:25:51

I too agree with Packman’s below regarding standards for the environment, safety, etc.

AND exeter’s “Why are we attempting to compete with these pukes?” position.

 
 
Comment by James
2009-09-14 08:27:25

I’m just not sure we really want to compete with fascist states like China, India and Russia and their lack of a labor movement.

Basically we would have to adopt a lot of their lifestyles.

Not. Good.

The challenge is extracting ourselves from the current situation.

NAFTA/uni-directional trade with China have just gutted this country.

Talked with my brother about why he has had a hard time holding a job. He is a mechanical engineer. Basically we’ve seen deflation in the manufacturing portion of the economy for almost 30 years. As long as we’ve been adults. Its been accelerating the whole time too. More and more technology getting shifted overseas as a result of these policies. We are getting totally disabled as a workforce and its a freaking mess. The only industries that are still here are stuff to dangerous to move, like military or airplanes; and things that can’t move like housing. That was another driver to this god damned bubble. It was something that couldn’t go offshore. Of course, fu(**&g NAFTA allowed the invasion of illegals to go steal a bunch of the work.

Again, all these asymmetrical trade agreements, technology transfer and other crap. Was hard enough dealing with Japan but China/India… oye… they steal just about everything and fraud is routine. Plus they have a mass of exploitable labor that is an order of magnitude larger than us.

As a libertarian, hated these policy decisions as they all have degraded our security, much as I thought they would.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 10:12:44

The last time I looked India is a democracy. When did they become a facist country?

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 10:33:57

Going up against *governments* who subsidize and support their industries, governments who enslave their citizens, governments who destroy their natural resources on a wholesale scale is NOT competition.

Why are we attempting to compete with these pukes?

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 12:16:29

“Plus they have a mass of exploitable labor that is an order of magnitude larger than us.”

Why exploitable? Why use that term? Under what conditions could they work that you wouldn’t consider them exploited? The foreign workers are taking jobs that improve their lifestyle, even if remains low by our standards. They are making the most rational choice available to them. Should they chose no job and live with nothing, instead of being ‘exploited’.

 
Comment by james
2009-09-14 13:56:03

India is a democracy wraped around a repressive caste system that slots you for the trash heap early if you are not born to the right family. Not to mention property laws there.

China will use force to push people to move from the farm to the cities or what ever other sick plan it wants to do. Basically they are a resource for what ever dream the government comes up with. Be it build a great wall for defense of the nation or go to work in dead end factory jobs, live in a slum and have zero social benifits. All in the name of keeping up that trade imbalance that is making the eliete over there so rich.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-09-14 14:26:22

And just to stir the pot a little more: from what I know of India — a little dash of socialism wouldn’t hurt it. Talk about income extremes.

I do think many Americans tend to confuse socialism and communism.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 03:05:54

I do think many Americans tend to confuse socialism and communism.
———————–

Absolutely, 100% true.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 08:37:41

Personally I have no problems with Americans competing with foreign labor costs.

What I have a problem with is American companies competing with foreign companies (or American companies with overseas operations) that don’t have nearly as strict environmental, workplace safety, etc. regulations as we do. That to me is the crux of the problem.

This is where we need regulated equality (one way or another).

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Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-09-14 12:19:31

One of the things we are going to have to ask ourselves, is if all of these environmental and safety regulations issued over the past 30 years have been worth the cost, not just in money, but in lost jobs.

I’m not saying that all this regulation is good or bad (well, actually, I do have an opinion). I do know that everyone advocating all of these regs has been underestimating/lowballing the direct costs, and don’t even think about the indirect costs.

Why jump thru regulatory hoops for 5-10 years to open any kind of manufacturing facility here, when you can build the same facility in China or India and be welcome with open arms?

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 15:06:48

Because in 20 years they will be killing their population wholesale and the their medical and lost productivity costs will be through the roof, just as we did for most of the last century.

Killing and crippling your own population is usually considered a Very Bad strategic move for any nation.

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-09-14 15:33:26

I’m finding out that if you are over 50, you are considered a economic liability, not an asset.

So what’s the point of living until 80, if you are going to end up living in a cardboard box under a bridge?

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 22:30:22

“…This is where we need regulated equality (one way or another).”

Commie.

 
 
Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-14 08:52:36

“…there’s no way American workers can compete with cheap foreign labor/I>

I choose to view it as their (foreign) standard of living cannot compete with ours. It just costs more to be us…

No one is going to pay us more for the same cheap product they can get from china. Unions cannot get past this. It’s simple. You cannot artificially inflate wages and benefits and expect other countries to buy our artificially expensive product.

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Comment by blackwater
2009-09-14 09:32:53

You know it, Stpn2me!

 
Comment by blackwater
2009-09-14 09:53:52

I think many people on this board and elsewhere are misguided in thinking that if we only put a restriction on this or that jobs will flow back and we would have a workers’ paradise of high paying jobs and killer benefits. It will not happen IMO. US workers will have to compete with labors from all over the world in salary and benefits. We should not compare the current situation with that of right after the great depression. Most of the world was in dark at that time and Europe, the only continent that could have provided a serious competition was ravaged by two wars. Hence the supreme American economic power. Going forward I see following things:

1. Low quality of life in general in US.
2. Low Salaries and Benefits for US workers.
3. US capital will continue move to where there’s a cheap labor.
4. US will see emigration of its Engineers and Scientists.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-09-14 10:15:18

“You cannot artificially inflate wages and benefits and expect other countries to buy our artificially expensive product.”

Why do you consider the U.S.’s wage and benefit levels to be artificially inflated? Much of Northern Europe has even higher wage and benefit levels and yet they are not facing the complete meltdown in manufacturing that we are. Are they just better than us?

How lousy do you want Americans to live?

 
Comment by blackwater
2009-09-14 10:25:55

Via Wikipedia

Europe has a thriving manufacturing sector, with a large part of the world’s industrial production taking place in Europe. Most of the continent’s industries are concentrated in Western Europe (mainly in the zone that comprises parts of the UK, the Benelux, western Germany, northeastern France, Switzerland, and northern Italy). However, because of the higher wage level and hence production costs, Western Europe is suffering from deindustrialization and offshoring in the traditional (labour intensive) manufacturing sectors. This means that manufacturing has become less important in Western Europe and that jobs are moved to cheaper regions (mainly China and Eastern Europe).

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2009-09-14 13:56:46

My gut feeling is that America is gutting its manufacturing base faster than Europe has gutted theirs because American politicians don’t have the guts to defy corporate will.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-09-14 14:30:39

And there’s one benefit that Europeans get that Americans don’t. Ta Da! A National Health Care.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 15:28:45

One more time and I’ll keep it simple.

No jobs=no consumption=no economy for anybody.

The United States of America is THE marketplace for the world. We consume more than most of the rest world COMBINED. If we don’t or can’t buy, there is no “cheaper manufacturing”. WHO WILL THEY SELL TO?

Not each other. They don’t have any money either, do they? Besides, who the hell cares what their standard of living is? They need to work that out for themselves. And NOT at our expense.

As far I’m considered, if you support a lower standard of living in this country for ANY reason, you are a traitor. This is NOT the United States of Giant Corporations and the guarantee of large profits is nowhere in the Constitution, is it?

(although really, it is and has been for a long time. and some of you let it get that way)

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 03:08:42

Awesome post, eco!!!

 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 06:01:53

“We have a tremendous crisis in manufacturing deficit and trade deficit,” he said.

Just about every Tom,Dick & Harry are good at pointing out our problems, but very few offer viable solutions for correcting them.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-14 08:47:18

but very few offer viable solutions for correcting them.

Those “solutions” usually mean money loss for one group or another…which is why solutions are hard to come by…

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 09:20:12

Wow, I’m really impressed with Jackson this time .

 
 
Comment by Will
2009-09-14 04:01:18

Signs of Spring in Sarasota

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090914/ARTICLE/309149998/2055/NEWS?Title=A-sign-of-recovery-bidding-wars-for-houses

“The Herald-Tribune analyzed Multiple Listing Service data for all home and condo sales that closed in 15 Sarasota-area ZIP codes from Jan. 1 through Aug. 31.”

“Of more than 3,200 transactions studied, 520 — about 16 percent — had a sale price higher than, or equal to, the listing price, a possible sign of competitive bidding.”

“The data showed that the higher offers were much more common at the low to medium range of the price spectrum, but were not confined there.”

What they do not report is that 84% of all houses listed sold below listing prices. Greater fools are still alive and living in SW Florida.

Comment by SDGreg
2009-09-14 04:53:22

“Of more than 3,200 transactions studied, 520 — about 16 percent — had a sale price higher than, or equal to, the listing price, a possible sign of competitive bidding.”

With 84 percent of the sales below the list price, it’s just more evidence that list prices are still broadly higher than the market price.

 
Comment by Kim
2009-09-14 09:10:19

For the houses selling over list price, I wonder how many buyers are asking the seller to pay for closing costs or other concessions?

Comment by SFC
2009-09-14 10:34:25

Florida isn’t the mortgage fraud cash-back-at-closing champion of the world for nothing. My crystal ball estimates it currently at about….16%.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 04:12:38

Car dealers fight slow sales after end of Clunkers
Across the nation, many car dealers fight slow sales after Cash for Clunkers program ends
September 13, 2009,

YPSILANTI TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) — As Gene Butman Ford opened its doors Saturday, salesmen outnumbered the shoppers looking at a depleted stock of cars and trucks, and it didn’t appear that many customers were ready to buy.

Like many dealers across the country, the dealership in Ypsilanti Township, Mich., west of Detroit, is suffering from a Cash for Clunkers hangover, and Sales Manager Paul Grahl isn’t sure when it will end.

“We’re getting some traffic, but my business is a long way from healthy,” said the longtime salesman. “We suspect it’s going to be 90 days before we get back to any kind of normalcy.”

The clunkers program lured hundreds of thousands of people to dealers in July and August with government rebates of up to $4,500 to trade in older, inefficient vehicles for newer, more fuel-efficient ones.

While most dealers are grateful for the boost, they’re paying for it now with fewer customers. The government rebates drew people into the market who otherwise would have kept driving their clunkers due to uncertainty over the sputtering economy. Those customers might have made their purchases later in the year.

“It was good while it lasted,” said Phil Warren, sales manager at Toyota Direct in Columbus, Ohio. “Now we’re a little bit concerned about what happens next. The program may have just taken a lot of people out of the market.”

Comment by Al
2009-09-14 07:41:16

If only the silly potential car buyers understood the new paradigms in economics. You see, because of the C4C program, a line on a graph stopped going down and started going up. That is, sales of cars started going up. And because the line was going up after having stopped going down, the line has to continue going up according to the new paradigms. So the silly potential car buyers need to buy a car to prove they understand economics.

Comment by SFC
2009-09-14 10:36:24

But I thought the C4C was a huge success! Who could have predicted this? I’m SHOCKED! SHOCKED! Everything else the government does has worked out so well.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-09-14 12:22:11

It was……..it got the 2009s (and leftover 2008s) off the lot.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 10:55:54

I think you should always include the links to stories, so people can read them in their entirety, not just the quotes you choose. I posted this last night. Here it is:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090913/ap_on_bi_ge/us_life_after_clunkers

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 04:23:48

David P. Goldman, who wrote behind the pseudonym “Spengler” for several years, says Asian financiers aren’t happy with the weak U.S. dollar:

“I just spent two weeks in the Far East talking to a variety of financial types. Everyone is sick of the dollar as a reserve currency; everyone foresees a diminution of American power under the Obama administration; and no-one has a clue what alternative might present itself to the dollar.”

Comment by palmetto
2009-09-14 04:54:30

“no-one has a clue what alternative might present itself to the dollar.”

Gold. At least that’s what China seems to be trying to set up. Ironic, isn’t it, considering the history of the gold standard in the US? While I’m not a fan of China and Chinese trade, it would be a hoot to see China be the force that puts the world back on the gold standard.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-09-14 06:12:05

Palmetto, you are in favor of the gold standard? If so, finally there is one thing that you and I agree with.

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-09-14 21:25:58

Yep, gold is the “secret” new currency. No one could have predicted that!

Well, other than me, anyway.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 04:57:13

From Asia
Larry Edelson

We are now the laughing stock of Asia. Our dollars are no longer respected; our ambitions, no longer mimicked.

Our way of life, often based on consuming far beyond our means, is being flat-out rejected.

I can’t even exchange a $100 bill on the street here anymore: Most of the street money changers will take euros, Singapore dollars, even Chinese yuan. But fearful of losing their shirt with sinking exchange rates, they don’t want U.S. dollars.

Not long ago, I never traveled without my American Express card. Now, it sits in my office safe. Many in Asia no longer accept the card anymore. MasterCard and Visa are still OK, but they’re also losing market share to locally grown cards like Aeon.

The running joke in Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok, and Kuala Lumpur is that the U.S. is the place where even your pet could get a credit card or a home mortgage.

So to Asians, the crisis we’re going through is our own fault. And although it was also caused by blunders in Western Europe and other regions, truth be told, they are mostly right.

The message is clear: We need to immediately stop living beyond our means. But can we?

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-09-14 05:29:49

“We need to immediately stop living beyond our means. But can we?”

Households are moving in that direction, but the gubmint is going the opposite way.

Don’t worry, the world will always want to buy Treasurys. Yeah, right.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 07:05:12

Households are moving in that direction, but the gubmint is going the opposite way.

This cannot be emphasized enough. What good is coming out of this crisis - a return of at least some level of frugality - is being offset and then some by government debt growth.

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Comment by WT Economist
2009-09-14 07:48:26

Where would we be if the federal government didn’t bail out schools, expand Medicaid, and extend unemployment insurance, if it immediately raised tax rates to offset falling tax revenues, or stopped paying Social Security?

To keep the economy from collapse, and some people from going without the basics, the government is indeed going into debt in an unsustainable way. So people should be allowed to starve? Rock, meet hard place.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 08:22:56

To keep the economy from collapse

Could you explain how the economy would, without fail, collapse, if the gov’t didn’t extend UI benefits? Or provide cash for clunkers?

Personally, I believe that it’s not the gov’ts job to stop people from starving. If you believe that, you’re basically saying that everyone has a moral imperative to feed everyone else if they have more than is necessary to feed themselves that day. I just can’t agree with that.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 08:42:29

Could you explain how the economy would, without fail, collapse, if the gov’t didn’t extend UI benefits? Or provide cash for clunkers?

Personally, I believe that it’s not the gov’ts job to stop people from starving. If you believe that, you’re basically saying that everyone has a moral imperative to feed everyone else if they have more than is necessary to feed themselves that day. I just can’t agree with that.

+1

There’s a reason why the declaration of independence used the words “life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness” instead of “life, liberty, and happiness” as its list of inalienable rights.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 09:28:41

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

The fact that life is considered an unalienable right under the State suggests their is a duty to ensure everyone is fed, even if it means sharing todays meal. It doesn’t say pursuit of life.

This doesn’t explain C4C or bank bailouts of course.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 09:55:44

I believe there are a few times in history that shows what happens when people starve.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 10:30:13

The fact that life is considered an unalienable right under the State suggests their is a duty to ensure everyone is fed

Absolutely not. The only implication in that declaration is a right to not have their life forceably taken from them without cause; same as liberty, and same as pursuit of happiness.

Our society has been advanced enough easily since the 1700’s to ensure via private charity that all people, no matter how bad off, are actually fed. It is not a function of the government.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 12:05:04

“Our society has been advanced enough easily since the 1700’s to ensure via private charity that all people, no matter how bad off, are actually fed.”

We could be heading for a test of this. Food banks and other charities have been reporting shortages, not for the first time of course. I’m curious if they could keep up with demand if the food stamp program didn’t exist. It’s possible people would be more charitable if it didn’t. What if the current system of charity fails?

I’m not saying that the govt definitely should be gauranteeing food is supplied, but that part of the declaration could easily be used as support.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 12:45:10

Food banks and other charities have been reporting shortages, not for the first time of course. I’m curious if they could keep up with demand if the food stamp program didn’t exist.

I would posit that many people DON’T donate because they’re taxed already. Why give to charities by choice when I’m already forced to do so at gunpoint?

True, there may be a test at hand, but it’s hardly a test of the hypothesis that, without government intervention, charity given freely would ensure people don’t starve in this country.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 13:20:02

What kind of liberty do you have when you and your family are starving? Would you do or say anything to keep your 2 year old from starving before your eyes.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 13:36:11

I would posit that many people DON’T donate because they’re taxed already. Why give to charities by choice when I’m already forced to do so at gunpoint?

I can personally vouch for that. I budget a certain amount to given to charity each month, and would give significantly more if:
- My taxes weren’t as high
- I didn’t know that a significant portion of my taxes already go to charity

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 13:58:54

What kind of liberty do you have when you and your family are starving?

Umm….the same liberty everyone else has.

Just because someone’s starving doesn’t mean you have the moral right to steal from an uninvolved 3rd party. Are you arguing that you do?

 
Comment by Cassandra
2009-09-14 15:04:25

One of my personal rules for charitable donations: Never give any money to any organization that receives government money. When, for instance, the schools go begging, I tell them h*ll no! They already take money from me by force via my taxes, and I have no say whatsoever as to how that money gets spent.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2009-09-14 15:05:25

In a vacuum, do governments have the obligation to keep people from starving? I don’t know.

But what about if a government has just spent trillions bailing out rich people? Or a government that uses taxpayer money to support industries that should be shuttered? Then the question becomes a little tricky.

Do governments have the obligation to keep people from starving when they have outsourced the jobs of the starving people? Or when it fosters a system that creates unfathomable wealth for so many but poverty for many more?

I think in these cases the government has the obligation to keep people from starving. And if the government is smart it will keep people from starving.

Apparently Brazil, which has a horrible history of oppressing the poor and has the biggest gap between rich and poor in the world, has decided that it does have an obligation to keep people from starving.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0911/p04s01-woam.html

A big difference between Brazil and America is Americans don’t smile as much and are not as cheerful when they figure out they’ve been hoodwinked.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-09-14 16:00:20

Our society has been advanced enough easily since the 1700’s to ensure via private charity that all people, no matter how bad off, are actually fed. That failed in the 1930s. The Red Cross could not keep up with the demand. Even Herbert Hoover was dimly aware of that. Dust Bowl farmers ate pickled tumbleweeds.

 
Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-09-14 19:28:11

Yeah, you can hear the food banks whine while they load grocery bags into new cash for clunkers driven by illegals. I say we let them all starve.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 19:58:57

Before they starve, they’ll show up at your (and my) houses. Won’t it be fun to hold off the starving masses? Bang! Bang! Just like a video game!

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 22:46:51

I suspect some of these ideologues will change their tune when their tummies go unfilled for a few weeks….

“Could never happen to me, right?”

 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 08:15:10

Households are moving in that direction, but the gubmint is going the opposite way.

The only reason households are moving in that direction is BECAUSE the gov’t is going the opposite way.

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-09-14 11:31:00

The only reason households are moving in that direction is because they don’t have their own printing presses.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 15:46:38

Starving people usually start revolutions. Successful ones.

Starving people also breed diseases. Usually new ones. New and virulent. Diseases that can’t be bribed buy any amount of money.

We are NOT advanced enough to feed a large starving population through charity alone. No way, no how. Don’t even start that argument.

However, it is nice of some of you to reveal your compassion. Or lack thereof. (and then you wonder what’s wrong with our country :roll:)

Noblise Oblige. It’s not some abstract concept. It has real and direct consequences if ignored.

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Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 17:50:16

However, it is nice of some of you to reveal your compassion. Or lack thereof.

FYI, one can be compassionate but still feel it’s not the gov’ts place to COMPEL people to give to charity. In fact, there’s no charity involved in having my money taken by force.

I can be compassionate yet realize it’s not my place to take your money against your will to support my cause. Compassion means that I give from what I have. Is it compassionate for someone to take money from me that I was going to give my mother to assist her in her old age?

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 18:11:20

drumminj, your “forced to pay taxes” argument is a complaint without merit.

If you feel this is so, you are more than free to go live in the woods/wilderness and not pay taxes. Many tax evaders and anti government folks do this. Just don’t expect any of the services that your (oops, now our) taxes pay for. Like fire fighting, ambulances, emergency medical care, good roads, electricity, disease control, modern communications, law enforcement, disaster relief.

You can live without those, can’t you? Then who’s stopping you?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 20:03:17

You mean the interstate system and the electric grid weren’t built by the Indians? Wow! Who’d'a thunk?!
(And yes, tax/civilization protesters, you can still go live in the national forests, away from all those pesky taxes. And you can still call in the choppers when you fall and break your leg.)

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 21:18:39

If you feel this is so, you are more than free to go live in the woods/wilderness and not pay taxes.

Actually, no, I’m not. If I earn income and live within the boundaries of this country, I’m forced to pay taxes.

Why must you resort to Reductio ad absurdum? Did I say that I disagree with all taxes here? The discussion is about the gov’t being responsible for no single person starving. Stay on topic, eh?

I can hold my position while still agreeing with you that starving people start revolutions. And engage in crime. And very well may make my life miserable. That doesn’t mean I think it’s moral, nor the gov’ts job, to feed them with the fruits of my labor.

If you have an issue with my position, then please, debate the statements/assertions I make. It’s clear you’re intelligent enough to do so…so why not engage in rational discourse rather than jumping off the deep end and setting up a straw man argument?

(btw, you are aware that many of the things you listed aren’t in fact paid for by taxes, right? communications infrastructure, private ambulance services, private hospitals/emergency care…)

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-15 01:23:11

It’s called “Society” for a reason.

 
 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-09-14 06:40:37

“…the U.S. is the place where even your pet could get a credit card…”

Old news, anyone remember Santos L. Halper? It was already a national joke almost twenty years ago. Were they looking at our behavior/practices back then, or just swilling the koolaide too?

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 08:02:33

If the US lives within its means, China’s economic model will collapse. Do those ‘financiers’ want that? I’m sure China wants a strong dollar to artificially peg its yuan to, but they’re finding out currency markets are tough to game, for long. (And I think they’ll discover they’ve done a little overbuilding too.)

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 04:44:22

Atlantic City’s First Casino in Jeopardy of Closing

Resorts Casino, the first casino to open for business when New Jersey started licensing gaming operations, may be headed for closure unless gambling regulators approve an unusual request.

Even though there have been several major casino bankruptcies this past year, including such high-profile examples as Station Casinos and Trump Entertainment, most operations continued with business as normal on the gaming floor. But the Resorts Casino Hotel, the first casino to open in Atlantic City when New Jersey legalized casinos, not only may go bankrupt, but actually close down.

Other casino operations still return earbnings, and only need to rid themselves of onerous debt to recover their viability. This means that Trump and Stations casino gambling continues apace, even while lenders and owners negotiate settlement against credit covenants.

But Resorts is in worse condition than others. The casino has not made a mortgage payment in almost a year. The casino’s operators have filed a request with regulators to give the company’s lenders control and ownership of the historic gaming venue.

“Resorts has experienced the same downdraft in their cash flows as all other Atlantic City operators,” analyst Andrew Zarnett told the Philadelphia Inquirer. “However, by being one of the smaller operators in the market, instead of reduced profit, they’ve experienced absolute losses .”

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-09-14 04:48:19

Gooooooooooood morning HBB!!

My wife and I nearing are nearing baby #2 time! Now it’s just hurry up and wait. I am making another proactive move and job-switching again. Luckily I am good at what I do — there is some risk, but I am running from the massive budget cut blade like many others.

I was at a conference and met a dude from Orlando who just moved out of a gated community. He said it was like a prison and gangs were running the grounds. He took his daughter to the community playground and a bunch of young men started doing drugs and he asked them to stop, so of course they threatened to kill him. Amazing story.

As for Pinellas, there are still tons of unlisted foreclosures. I know this because some of the properties I’ve nibbled at have been listed and de-listed now several times. The one I was most interested in is now completely abandoned and racking up a lot of liens with the city for maintenance.

We still want to move, but it’s a fluid situation and it’s looking like more and more we will be in Florida for another year or so. That’s the catch-22 with education: there is a lot of security, but you lose it all when you go to a different district. Leaving the state would not be a smart move until this thing is over, which is just around the corner!

Comment by Muggy
2009-09-14 05:44:24

Another thing, I saw NY Times Tech Columnist David Pogue speak, he was demonstrating text answering services and he said, “do you ever hear a word and say ‘Hmmm, what’s that mean?’”

He then typed out “schadenfreude” on his laptop to be seen on four ginormous monitors in front of 1,400 people and I was the only one that LOL’d.

It was great.

Comment by seekingsun
2009-09-14 12:46:33

That was actually a Dilbert strip a couple of weeks ago. Dogbert was inviting people to their Schadenfreude-party. Well, one of the few times it actually helps to know German.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-09-14 05:58:36

Depressing situation that gangs are controlling a gated community. I wouldn’t have thought that could happen. However I still think that a lot of liars are still occupying neighborhoods in houses they cannot afford. Some of them no doubt stop paying mortgages and haven’t been booted out yet.

It will be a few years before the invisible hand removes the riff raff from upscale neighborhoods and the right people live in the right houses.

Apartment complexes at least in Phoenix have a better class of people than many SFH neighborhoods.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-09-14 06:52:17

Invisible hand?

Ya lost me on that one. Besides, who is to say a formerly affluent community can’t go bad and stay bad? There are many, many examples of the best neighborhoods in cities becoming slums and staying that way for a long, long time.

Real estate is a giant shell game. Such disinvestment and creative destruction is not always an accident too. A few gated communities lost is a small price to pay for more “churn”.

Comment by WHYoung
2009-09-14 07:26:42

And remember the consequences of the flight from the inner cities to the suburbs in the 60’s and 70’s.
Not all those inner city neighborhoods, some with really grand and solidly built Victorian and Edwardian houses, have been gentrified.
Some never will.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 06:57:02

That’s pretty wild Muggy, and I lived there. Gated too, huh? Whew!!

Comment by rms
2009-09-14 22:06:06

I’ve repo’d cars from huge Section-8 gated communities in Vallejo, CA where the parking lot night life at 0200-hrs was like a block party of drug dealing and partying — all on, ‘da man. Simply return when the sunrise is just climbing over the horizon, and it’s easy picking.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 14:42:09

“I was at a conference and met a dude from Orlando who just moved out of a gated community. He said it was like a prison and gangs were running the grounds. He took his daughter to the community playground and a bunch of young men started doing drugs and he asked them to stop, so of course they threatened to kill him.”

This is what happens in a crooked capitalistic society where the top 1% of individuals own more than 50% of the wealth, and the bottom 40% own less than 1/2%. Throw in high unemployment and unfettered illegal immigration and you’ve got a nice powder keg.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 16:36:43

+ a Gazillion.

 
Comment by RioAmericanInBrasil
2009-09-14 17:17:18

“This is what happens in a crooked capitalistic society where the top 1% of individuals own more than 50% of the wealth, and the bottom 40% own less than 1/2%. Throw in high unemployment and unfettered illegal immigration and you’ve got a nice powder keg.”

Wow, I thought I was reading about where I live now until i got to the unfettered illegal immigration part.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 03:33:46

You’re on a roll, Grizzly. Well said.

 
 
 
Comment by ACH
2009-09-14 04:54:27

This guy, Stephen Roach, wants to “avoid the interplay between financial bubbles and the real economy.” (I know I didn’t get that quote entirely correct.)

Translated: We want to have all the bubbles we can, we just don’t want to suffer consequences when they pop. We also don’t want to be held responsible.

Here is the link.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1252526478&play=1
Rant on:
“Equity markets” have become disconnected from the risk they have taken on. I’m still of the opinion that we are in a very dangerous situation. We have a narco war in Mexico, looming failure in Afghanistan, Iraq is trying to heat up again, it is impossible to determine WHAT China is up to, oil may crash to lower levels, foreclosures are going to remain at a very high level for a very long time, and the “banks” have been successful in preventing complete and honest disclosure of their books. This is but a short list.

Yes, I know that there have been problems throughout history. That is not the issue! In the end, the world economy was based upon a financial bubble that ran out of people to lend money to. The focus of this bubble was house sales and refi’s which produced nothing in terms of products or new technologies.

Frankly, I miss the internet bubble. No, I didn’t like it, but it did have the potential to increase real wealth. Instead we are trying to “reflate” the economy. I’m going to sit this out, also. I will keep my house equity (which is a considerable amount) right where it is: In My House.

Rant off.

Roidy
P.S. It still can’t be “fixed”.

 
Comment by Lucy
2009-09-14 05:09:03

Decoupling is back in fashion.

When markets around the world tumbled in unison last fall, the once-popular view that Asian markets and economies could hold up despite the turmoil in the West was quickly forgotten.

Now, investors have once again embraced the idea of “decoupling.” Markets in Shanghai, Hong Kong and Singapore are up nearly twice as much as those in the U.S. and Europe as their economies recover strongly from the recession.

Comment by Lucy
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 05:35:00

Someone recently pointed out here how the decoupling theory has always been about long-term trends. In this light, it is pretty amusing to see all these MSM financial press articles which cite developments over the past few months as providing evidence the theory is correct.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 05:28:00

Just wait until the Shanghai property bubble really settles out. You ain’t seen nothing yet…

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 10:17:13

I met a devil woman, she took my heart away
She said I had it comin’ to me, but I wanted it that way
I think that any love is good lovin’
And so I took what I could get, mmm
Oooh, oooh, she looked at me with big brown eyes
And said

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain’t seen nothin’ yet
Here’s something that you never gonna forget
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain’t seen nothin’ yet

And now I’m feelin’ better, ’cause I found out for sure
She took me to her doctor and he told me of a cure
He said that any love is good love
So I took what I could get, yes, I took what I could get
Oooh, and she looked at me with big brown eyes
And said

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain’t seen nothin’ yet
Here’s something, here’s something that you’re never gonna forget
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain’t seen nothin’ yet
You need educated

Any love is good love
So I took what I could get, yes, I took what I could get
And then, and then, and then she looked at me with big brown eyes
And said

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet
Baby, you just ain’t seen nothin’ yet
Here’s something, here’s something,
here’s something, mama, you’re never gonna forget
B-B-B-Baby, you just ain’t seen nu-nu-nu-nothin’ yet
You ain’t been around

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet
I know I ain’t seen nothin’ yet
I know I ain’t seen nothin’ yet
Baby, Baby, Baby
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet

- BTO (Bachman Turner Overdrive)

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-14 16:05:11

Snappy little tune! I remember that one. True classic rock.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 05:30:59

A decoupled world faces no “trade jitters”…

Trade jitters knock futures

U.S. stock futures weaken on prospect for U.S.-China trade war. Corus bankruptcy also weighs ahead of Obama speech.

• Tokyo paces Asian stocks’ retreat; Shanghai rises
• U.S.-China trade tensions give dollar small boost

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 06:01:03

i don’t see why stocks would take a hit due to threat of a trade war.

Fewer imports will reduce the trade deficit and strengthen the dollar. Industry will gear up and hire more people. A trade war will drive the prices we consumers pay for things up. Businesses gotta love it.. and so should investors.

Comment by rosie
2009-09-14 06:44:57

The Chinese are bringing down the price of gold, the U.S. is propping up the dollar, flight to safety. Wonder how long this will last

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Comment by Al
2009-09-14 07:25:19

“i don’t see why stocks would take a hit due to threat of a trade war.”

Some of those stocks are for retailers, which rely on cheap imports to sell. If they have to sell more expensive goods, their margins will drop as will their volume.

Some of those stocks are for manufacturers. A trade war would increase the cost of their inputs, while higher prices would push down volume.

Some of those stocks are for shipping companies. Lower volume means less shipping. And if they are focussed on international shipping, it can be disasterous for them.

Many of those companies own assets in other nations. Trade wars would restrict the ability of those assets to generate profits.

A trade war will force companies to make major changes, such as find new suppliers, find new markets, retool product lines etc. Regardless of the end state, the transition is sure to be costly.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 07:37:29

agreed.. the transition may be costly (although consumers bear the costs, not business) but the end state is what an investor looks at, imo.
The future promises to be brighter than today. If that ain’t a buy signal i don’t know what is..

so, while some companies in some situations may take a short term hit, i still don’t see where stock investors in general wouldn’t welcome a trade war.. and that’s what the article proposes.

U.S. stock futures weaken on prospect for U.S.-China trade war.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 07:53:27

I think you put too much weight in my last para and not enough on the rest. We’re looking at tighter margins and lower volumes all the way around. That’s not bullish. Can the US rebuild a manufacturing base if raw material prices are through the roof? Can it do so as a net importer of energy? Can it reach economies of scale with a tapped out consumer? Remember other countries will put tariffs on what they want.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 08:01:03

But we don’t need to import energy or raw materials. We choose to.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 08:04:41

let me put it a different way..

Suppose you own an American tire company, based in America. Do you feel good about the tire-tariff Obama is placing on imports? Certainly you should.. and so should your investors.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 08:24:51

so, while some companies in some situations may take a short term hit, i still don’t see where stock investors in general wouldn’t welcome a trade war..

How would you know which companies will survive such a scenario? Sure, perhaps if you pick correctly you could do really well. But if you average across the market, you’d break even because half of the companies would go bust.

Sure, there are rewards to be had…but lots of risk as well…

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 10:16:44

How would you know which companies will survive such a scenario?

That probably would require a bit of study and some imagination.. i haven’t thought about it.

How about food.. agriculture. We export a whole lot.. we feed a lot of foreign countries. Food is a necessity. It’s price may rise but they will still buy it.

If things evolve into an all out trade war, complete with retaliatory strikes by other countries, i’d have to put my faith in the American economy and my money in US companies.
We have such enormous resources (much of it untapped) and wealth that it’s hard to bet on anyone else.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 10:19:33

“Suppose you own an American tire company, based in America. Do you feel good about the tire-tariff Obama is placing on imports?”

Reuters
Obama slaps duties on tire imports from China
Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:47pm EDT

No American tire manufacturer supported the case and one, Cooper Tire, publicly opposed it.

“These tariffs are unwarranted. It’s troubling that the administration would invoke an import surge safeguard over the objections of U.S. industry and in response to falling imports. Not a single U.S. tire company supports these taxes,” said David Spooner, outside counsel for the Chinese tire industry.

U.S. tire wholesalers and retailers also warned a double-digit duty would cause them to cut jobs. They argued that major U.S. tire manufacturers no longer wanted to produce the low-priced tires imported from China.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 10:34:42

“But we don’t need to import energy or raw materials. We choose to.”

From Wikipedia, United States energy independence

First Para: U.S. energy independence is a political agenda whereby the United States of America would eventually, through shifts in its energy policy and technology development, approach self-sufficiency in its energy needs by producing close to the amount of energy that it consumed. If total energy is looked at, the U.S. is over 70% self-sufficient.[1]….

Second Para: The U.S. currently produces about 40% of the oil that it consumes; its imports have exceeded domestic production since the early 1990s. Since the U.S.’s oil consumption continues to rise, and its oil production continues to fall, this ratio may continue to decline.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 10:41:47

“But we don’t need to import energy or raw materials. We choose to.”

WSJ

SEPTEMBER 3, 2009
Will China Tighten ‘Rare Earth’ Grip?

BEIJING — China’s moves to tighten control on the mining and export of a class of metal ores called rare earth are aimed at attracting high-tech manufacturing to Inner Mongolia, and not at dominating the market, a senior Chinese official said.

Wednesday’s comments by Zhao Shuanglin, vice chairman of Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, appear aimed at quelling concerns that China is trying to dominate the global market for rare-earth resources, used in some environmentally friendly technologies. Rare-earth metals greatly improve batteries made for hybrid cars.

China produces more than 90% of the world’s output of the metals. Recent steps by Beijing toward tightening export restrictions have sparked concern in other countries.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 10:44:15

Al .. Cooper Tire is up 11% on today’s trading..

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 11:02:26

“But we don’t need to import energy or raw materials. We choose to.”

National Mining Association, taken from a much larger PDF by USGS, Mineral Commodity Summaries, 2009

http://www.nma.org/pdf/m_reliance.pdf

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 11:24:59

Al, what’s stopping us from burning coal? Is it a lack of coal? Can we not build hundreds of nuke plants? Hydroelectric dams?

All i’m saying is we choose to import energy. Why we choose it may or may not become important, depending on the severity of any shortages.
Right now we enjoy the luxury of importing. But if push comes to shove, our foreign competition will cry UNCLE! long before we do.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 11:59:05

“Al, what’s stopping us from burning coal? Is it a lack of coal? Can we not build hundreds of nuke plants? Hydroelectric dams?”

Yes those things can be done, but cost goes up. You’re talking about building a resource/energy base, which will provide more expensive resources/energy than can be bought on the open market, while trying to build a manufacturing base that will have mostly local markets to serve. At the same time retailers will be starved. Nothing here makes we want to run out and buy stocks.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 12:25:50

hey.. learned a new word..

Autarky is the quality of being self-sufficient. Usually the term is applied to political states or their economic policies. Autarky exists whenever an entity can survive or continue its activities without external assistance.

Sure costs will go up.. they always will in any kind of conflict or war. But by your measure, we might say that WW2 should have been a losing proposition for businesses, but i don’t think things turned out that way..

Industry was revitalized. Labor made huge gains. Science and tech were spurred on to create many new things. Personal income skyrocketed.
Where were the investors? Most were probably too scared to invest..

The US was the only real beneficiary after the war, but the whole world got over the remnants of the Great Depression.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 12:46:49

“But by your measure, we might say that WW2 should have been a losing proposition for businesses, but i don’t think things turned out that way.”

I would not have made any such claim. Up front there are parallels, as the US spent major dollars investing in itself for WWII. Afterwards, however, it was one of the few nations with an intact industrial base. WWII created a world market for the US, and a virtual monopoly on manufacturing. In a trade war, you’re building the base, but without the markets to sell to.

Autarky might be a worthwhile goal, but you have to accept that it will be a much poorer existence. And to tie it back to the original thought, the stock makets will not benefit under this condition.

To make it clear, I’m not saying that the US shouldn’t go protectionist. It might be the best route, it might not. Just don’t kid yourself that the stock market will benefit. The the populace will be worse off than now, but maybe better off than staying free market.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 15:25:50

I own some Walmart for the sake of “consumer staples” and, while they might suffer higher costs of Chinese imports, so will everyone else who’s in the same league.

Walmart’s volume could shrink but their market leadership won’t disappear.
Some of their lesser competitors might well disappear and consumers looking for somewhere else to shop could make up for Walmart’s loss of volume.

There’s a chance the stock market as a whole might actually lose ground. I have a few bucks to gamble with and it’d be fun to try and pick companies who will likely prosper in a trade war atmosphere.

Tire companies .. Goodyear and Cooper were up a little today, so those investors’ reaction wasn’t exactly negative. I don’t know how much of their manufacturing or sales are domestic.. don’t know what else is going on and don’t really know anything about them.. so I’m not jumping to conclusions.
I do know Cooper is one of the big re-tread suppliers.. researched that a while back, thinking retreads sales would rise with a worsening economy.

Anyway, I hope the Big O slaps a tariff on something else soon just to see the effects it has on that industry or sector.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 17:41:54

“i don’t see why stocks would take a hit due to threat of a trade war.”

So long as profitability has nothing to do with stock prices, I see your point.

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Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:08:45

Trade war?
Tee hee. Guess who controls America’s ports? And much of its mining industry? And supply routes? And Mexican natural resources?
Go on, guess….

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-09-14 05:58:31

Get a load of this — some want to give those on Social Security a cost of living increase, even though inflation is zero and wages are going down.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/58479-dems-push-for-increase-to-social-security-payments

That Democratic idea reminds me of the Republican idea of massively expanding Medicare, putting it all on the credit card, and doing nothing about the health care situation of working taxapayers.

Here’s a quote:

“It would simply be unacceptable for seniors on fixed incomes to not receive additional income in the coming year, something that hasn’t happened in over three decades,” Sanders said in a statement.

Yup, seniors on fixed incomes have received additional income every year for 30 years.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-09-14 06:24:11

The Greatest Generation has morphed into the Greediest Generation.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 09:25:58

“The Greatest Generation has morphed into the Greediest Generation.”

So what do we call the current generation of “Put $20 trillion on the National Credit Card in six months in the name of social progress and saddle the next 30 generations of Americans with their corrupt National Socialist debt?”

1. Generation Clueless ?
2. Generation Broke ?
3. Generation Unemployed ?
4. Generation Free Breakfast,Lunch,Dinner,
Housing, Education, and Healthcare for All?
5. Generation Obama ?

6. Right now the leading contender is Generation “We Heard Bush Was Worst”.

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-14 09:53:07

I would call them Bush Wacked Generation.

Amazing that CLinton handed Shrub a surplus and Shrub handed O this disaster of a credit card bill. Where were the protest when Bush lost the farm?

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Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 11:01:35

Amazing that CLinton handed Shrub a surplus and Shrub handed O this disaster of a credit card bill. Where were the protest when Bush lost the farm?

I’m sure plenty of people will dispute the facts you claim, but let me point out your focus on the president, rather than Congress. Who draws up the budget? Who authorizes spending? Who sets tax rates, law, credits etc?

The president? No. Congress? Yes.

So who is to be praised or blame for a surplus or deficit?

That’s right: Congress.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 12:22:51

Oh yeah….. the old everyones responsible so nobody is accountable routine huh?

Nice try.

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 13:54:33

the old everyones responsible so nobody is accountable routine huh?

Actually, I called out who was responsible. DId you even read my post?

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 15:08:53

I did. Quite intently I might add but you clearly didn’t read mine.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 09:56:54

I call it Generation Whiners

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 06:34:41

who is Bernard Sanders? At first i suspected he (along with the 15 or so Democrat co-sponsors) were up for reelection soon and, having delighted the old folks, the bill’s passage or failure was immaterial.. but no. Sanders was elected in ‘06 and has a few years to go..

Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist, but because he does not belong to a formal political party, he appears as an independent on the ballot. He is the first person elected to the U.S. Senate to identify as a socialist.[1] Sanders caucuses with the Democratic Party and is counted as a Democrat for the purposes of committee assignments…

wiki: Bernard Sanders

dems.. i don’t want you to go off defending yourselves just because you adopted a self proclaimed socialist. We know dems are mainstream.. not leftists.

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:13:41

Bernie is Progressives’ Ron Paul. He’s a hoot. Read his newsletter and you’ll probably find yourself agreeing with a lot of what he has to say.

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 03:46:42

“You need to revisit this whole business of deregulation,” Senator Bernie Sanders told Air America Radio host Ron Regan, pointing to one of the root causes of the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Recession. Sanders also has called for a serious investigation into what caused the crisis and who is to blame. “Instead of earning hundreds of millions of dollars a year, some of these people need to find out what our penal system is all about,” Sanders told nearly 8,000 progressives at Wisconsin’s Fighting Bob Fest over the weekend. In his weekly Internet video, Sanders outlined proposals to restructure companies “too big to fail,” reform the Federal Reserve, and cap credit card interest rates.

-Senator Bernie Sanders

http://sanders.senate.gov/

———————–

FWIW, I’ve heard him speak a few times, and really enjoyed what he had to say. He’s a breath of fresh air.

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Comment by cougar91
2009-09-14 06:27:20

Americans lose their appetite for supersized homes

Monday September 14, 2009, 6:30 AM

Forget the “McMansions” of the boom years. These days, small is the new big.

For the first time in nearly 14 years, the median size of a new single-family home decreased, to 2,215 square feet last year, from 2,277 square feet in 2007, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Since 1991, houses for single families consistently have been getting bigger and bigger, mirroring the housing bubble and good economic conditions.

“That’s reflective of the economy back then: the stock market, the egos, people trying to compete with their neighbors and people trying to keep up with the Joneses,” said Cindy Ariosa, regional vice president for Long & Foster, a real estate company. Ariosa considers anything under 3,000 square feet a smaller home.

In the past year or so, demand has shifted away from large homes amid the collapse of the real estate market.

Cash-strapped buyers want to contain mortgage and maintenance costs, including rising utility bills, after watching their investments and retirement plans plummet, according to real estate agents and economists. And some buyers are mindful of energy consumption.

“When the economy is weak, unemployment is high, income gain is slower or nonexistent, people tend to focus on simpler things, less-expensive things,” said Kermit Baker, chief economist for the American Institute of Architects.

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 09:35:16

And thank the heavens for that. Maybe people will finally start being more interested in quality over quantity. I went into Architecture with a very idealistic bent (I quickly found out that it certainly wasn’t for the money) but the last 10 years have actually presented me with a lot of ethical questions that I never thought I would have to answer.

I have never worked on ’spec’ McMansion track homes. I would sooner flip burgers or move to colorado and grow weed for the rest of my life but I have worked with private clients who insisted on ‘bigger’, more bling, push the zoning till it squeels and to hell with ‘craftsman’ or regionalism. Just throw more stone veneer and bling at it!. Hey, we all need to make a paycheck but I never in a million years thought I would have moral qualms for such a noble (and often thankless) career.

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:19:34

Small isn’t necessarily cheap. Nor is large necessarily quality. My interior space is about 1600 square feet, and every one of them the facet of a gem. No compromise, no bling.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-09-14 11:20:06

Interesting. My husband and I were depressed all weekend as out of curiosity and boredom we had checked out the 2009 Parade of Homes. We were really surprised to see the homes were still being built in the 4000-5000+ sq foot sizes. We were hoping to see something exciting and new in a size home where the area inventory is being depleteed not in the niches that were growing every day.

But you know in this price niche buyers want to have the best and that often means brand new w/the latest tech and gadgetry. Out of 8 homes 6 are already sold. We were thinking of the Winston form of PR when we noted the 5000 sq footer was being marketed as a “green” home. (We were thinking they might save more energy going w/the 3000 sq footer w/existing materials) Go figure!

http://www.cnycentral.com/news/video.aspx?id=349801

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 12:50:38

We have this happening here in the midlands of S.Carolina, on a smaller scale of course. Local real-a-tors say there is plenty of pent up ‘demand’ for Mc-Mansions, so they keep building them, despite all of the empty developments.

I love the end of the video, with the hummer in the driveway.

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 13:01:47

“We were thinking of the Winston form of PR when we noted the 5000 sq footer was being marketed as a “green” home.”

God that just kills me. I have called many a realtor onto the mat over just that sort of greenwash BS. A 5000 square foot single family house is, BY DEFINITION, not green.

I don’t care if it doesnt use a single drop of public water, a single electron off the grid and recycles the owners poop into fertilizer, the embodied energy represented in that size house (and the lifestyle it attests to) obviates any claim at “green”. It’s this kind of crap that really gets me heated and it’s why I maintain that we will not pull out of the finincial and ecological death spiral untill it’s far too late.

 
 
 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 07:09:17

“There is nothing wrong with macroeconomics that another depression [won’t] cure.”

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/09/13/why_capitalism_fails?mode=PF

I have read Noriel Roubini and Paul Krugman, among others, refer to Hyman Minsky in recent essays but wasn’t familiar with his work. It seems like he really nailed it regarding the genesis of our recent crisis. Below is the most relevent excerpt from the article.

“Minsky called his idea the “Financial Instability Hypothesis.” In the wake of a depression, he noted, financial institutions are extraordinarily conservative, as are businesses. With the borrowers and the lenders who fuel the economy all steering clear of high-risk deals, things go smoothly: loans are almost always paid on time, businesses generally succeed, and everyone does well. That success, however, inevitably encourages borrowers and lenders to take on more risk in the reasonable hope of making more money. As Minsky observed, “Success breeds a disregard of the possibility of failure.”

As people forget that failure is a possibility, a “euphoric economy” eventually develops, fueled by the rise of far riskier borrowers - what he called speculative borrowers, those whose income would cover interest payments but not the principal; and those he called “Ponzi borrowers,” those whose income could cover neither, and could only pay their bills by borrowing still further. As these latter categories grew, the overall economy would shift from a conservative but profitable environment to a much more freewheeling system dominated by players whose survival depended not on sound business plans, but on borrowed money and freely available credit.

Once that kind of economy had developed, any panic could wreck the market. The failure of a single firm, for example, or the revelation of a staggering fraud could trigger fear and a sudden, economy-wide attempt to shed debt. This watershed moment - what was later dubbed the “Minsky moment” - would create an environment deeply inhospitable to all borrowers. The speculators and Ponzi borrowers would collapse first, as they lost access to the credit they needed to survive. Even the more stable players might find themselves unable to pay their debt without selling off assets; their forced sales would send asset prices spiraling downward, and inevitably, the entire rickety financial edifice would start to collapse. Businesses would falter, and the crisis would spill over to the “real” economy that depended on the now-collapsing financial system.”

Hmmm. That sounds depressingly familiar. Looks like I need to add a few more books to my extensive reading list.

However, one big point of contention I have with Minsky is his suggestion that in times of financial collapse the government should step in and become “the employer of last resort” this seems to me to be a recipe for disaster. More disastrous than what we have now? Who knows? but regardless, that’s a subject for another post.
One thing government MUST do going forward though is make sure that there are SIGNIFICANT restraints on speculative investment and capital reserve requirements to make certain that “ponzi borrowers” can’t arise and a ponzi economy can never get started in the first place. In hindsight this all seems SO obvious but the human animal is very adept at rationalizing his avoidance of reality. Are we, in fact, any smarter than yeast?

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 08:55:48

One thing government MUST do going forward though is make sure that there are SIGNIFICANT restraints on speculative investment and capital reserve requirements to make certain that “ponzi borrowers” can’t arise and a ponzi economy can never get started in the first place.

Please understand this fundamental truth - you cannot lump “Ponzi” investment with “speculative” investment. The difference - the fundamental difference - is fraud. A Ponzi scheme involves fraud - where investors are led to believe that that their investments are resulting in an increase in the asset base, rather than being used to fuel the returns themselves. This requires accounting fraud, and definitely should be (and is) illegal).

Speculative investment, however, does not necessarily involve fraud. It may, but it may not. If I bought 1,000 shares of Cisco at $100 in 1999 - speculating that I will get great returns, and subsequently the price went down to $20 - I still have the base I invested in - I still have the 1,000 shares, they’ve just lost their value. In a Ponzi scheme however essentially the same 1,000 shares are sold over and over to different people, which of course is illegal.

IMO speculation should very much be allowed and legal, with the regulating force being the free market itself. Otherwise trying to “regulate” it artificially only causes more and more speculation, because it creates the artificial perception of safety.

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 09:21:35

I agree with you in general theory, the problem though is (and this, I think, is Minsky’s point) when speculative ventures become “too big to fail” and speculation in and of itself becomes the basis of a large section of the overall economy it is fundementally unstable and vulnerable to all sorts of “black swan” events.

I think a strong distinction needs to be made between ’speculation’ and investment. The purpose of the financial industry is to direct investment capital to business ventures in a way that supports productive capacity overall. Spectulation on the sucess or failure of the ventures themselves or ‘betting’ on whether a particular stock will go up ro down strikes me as little more than gambling.

To clarify, I do understand that one of the critical functions of an open market is to establish a ‘price’ or fair market value on a particular product or company, thats a fundemental feature of any economy from simle barter on up but It seems pretty clear that speculation, certainly in its more esoteric forms, (CDO’s SIV’s MBS’s etc) needs to be overseen and regulated to a much greater degree than it has been.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 09:47:09

The problem is this - every investment, bar none, has some speculative component.

Even U.S. treasuries have a speculative component - you’re betting that the U.S. won’t default on its debt before it matures, and that you won’t be wiped out by inflation before it matures. Yeah it’s extremely unlikely that either will happen, but there is at least some possibility, especially for long-term bonds, which is why the yields are higher.

So you can try to somehow regulate “speculation”, but in doing so you have to define exactly what “speculation” is, which is a virtually impossible task. “Fraud” on the other hand is a lot easier to define (though certainly not necessarily a no-brainer in some cases).

Even if you could somehow identify things that are “speculative” investments and regulate them - removing the risk - what that does is add risk to all other investments. People’s money has to go *somewhere*, and if for instance you make say margined ETF’s illegal - then people who otherwise use these will put their money somewhere else - say some company A’s stock. That means that company A’s stock is now priced higher than it otherwise would have been, with no change in the fundamental value, making it a riskier investment.

FWIW - I’m not proposing for there to be no regulation. What I would propose is:
- Add regulations for transparency (i.e. to remove fraud)
- Remove regulations that artificially influence risk - e.g. the very existence of federal funds. Let interest rates float according to actual market perception of risk.
- Remove the conflicts of interest of the ratings agencies, e.g. special NRSRO status.
- Remove implicit or explicit government bailouts / backstops.

Obviously doing such things overnight would cause big problems - they would have to be stepped in, with enough lead time for preparation.

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 10:35:37

“Obviously doing such things overnight would cause big problems ”

Ya think ;)

I totally agree that providing as transparent a market as possible and removing all of the gevernment backstops would go a long way towards solving the problem. It would reign in speculation run amok because it would make risk RISKY. Wow, what a concept ;) I personally love that idea and under such a scenario it would be far more difficult (outside of a monoply situation) for investment firms to grow so cancerous. You make big money by taking big risks. I have no problem with that but if you FAIL, your’re done. No mulligans.

As you say though, it will have to be incremental. Too many people have too much at stake in the current ’shaddow’ market and they won’t come into the light without a struggle. You can already see Obama backing away from the tough rhetoric of last fall.

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 10:44:34

LOL, gevernment. Please forgive my poor typing skills.

 
 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 09:29:12

Good post packman . Speculative investment means that if you lose you lose . Ponzi scheme means when you lose,a thousand other people lose .

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:26:02

Man, like yeast, shall rise again…under lukewarm conditions.
-ahansen

 
 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 07:12:50

Revealed: The ghost fleet of the recession

The biggest and most secretive gathering of ships in maritime history lies at anchor east of Singapore. Never before photographed, it is bigger than the U.S. and British navies combined but has no crew, no cargo and no destination - and is why your Christmas stocking may be on the light side this year

www DOT dailymail DOT co DOT uk/home/moslive/article-1212013/Revealed-The-ghost-fleet-recession.html

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 07:38:19

‘We don’t understand why they are here. There are so many ships but no one seems to be on board,’ said local fisherman Ah Wat

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 22:49:27

This guy’s comments about the “ghost ships” are pricelessly candid:

Ah Wat says: ‘… When we sail past them in our fishing boats we never see anyone. They are like real ghost ships and some people are scared of them. They believe they may bring a curse with them and that there may be bad spirits on the ships.’

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-14 07:48:04

Sounds like nothing “Cash 4 Tankerz” could not fix.

 
Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-14 09:23:25

I’m sure they could make some great reefs somewhere ;)

Comment by Cassandra
2009-09-14 16:06:13

Naw, move them off the coast of Santa Barbara, turn them into ocean front condos. Write a few NINJA loans. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 17:49:56

“The ‘ghost fleet’ near Singapore. The world’s ship owners and government economists would prefer you not to see this symbol of the depths of the plague still crippling the world’s economies.

Here, on a sleepy stretch of shoreline at the far end of Asia, is surely the biggest and most secretive gathering of ships in maritime history. Their numbers are equivalent to the entire British and American navies combined; their tonnage is far greater. Container ships, bulk carriers, oil tankers - all should be steaming fully laden between China, Britain, Europe and the US, stocking camera shops, PC Worlds and Argos depots ahead of the retail pandemonium of 2009.

But their water has been stolen. They are a powerful and tangible representation of the hurricanes that have been wrought by the global economic crisis; an iron curtain drawn along the coastline of the southern edge of Malaysia’s rural Johor state, 50 miles east of Singapore harbour.”

What a story! It freaks me out to read stuff like this. Who decided to park all those vessels out there? How was this secretive inventory of container ships created? Who coordinated the effort? There is far more to the story than that article reveals…

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:35:46

They are the Mojave 747’s of the sea.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-14 08:45:48

The payment makers are going on strike! First salvo fired in the video revolution! What will the debt pushers do now?

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 10:44:28

LOL.

“Minch said she hadn’t been paying much attention to her account — she didn’t even notice when her interest rate went from 12.99 percent to 25.49 percent in January.”

Sorry but I have not sympathy for her cause.

Easiest way to “go on strike” against usury is (gasp) don’t take out high-interest loans. Primarily by (gasp) not buying stuff you can’t afford.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-14 11:56:00

But don’t you love all the handwringing as “consumers” are paying of their debts?

Consume, dammit! Consume we tell you!

There is a cartoon on the fridge here in the office. It shows a guy walking up to an ATM, which morphs into a Transformers type of robot and mugs the guy, after which it says “Confidence is restored, the system is once again sound.”

The victim protests and demands he be given his money back. The Transformer replies something like “Sure, no problem” and morphs back into an ATM with a big bold sign above it that says “LOANS”.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 12:29:20

Oh man - I would *love* a copy of that. Know the source?

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-14 17:28:25

Hey $hi**bank pulled that with me this year….out of nowhere raised it from 8 to 24% never ever went over the limit or paid a late payment in 18 years

Well the final outcome was they put it back to 8% but when my card expires in 3 years i wont be guaranteed a renewal , i will have to apply all over.

They wanted me as a customer at 24% but not at 8.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-14 09:21:58

“And responsible lenders, including community banks, doing the right thing shouldn’t have to worry about ruinous competition from unregulated competitors. ”

-from Obama’s speech today. Isn’t the ‘ruinous competition’ now coming from the TBTF institutions who are getting an unfair advantage from the government? “Doing the right thing” has not been a strategy that has paid off well during your administration, Mr Obama.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-14 09:39:02

Obama challenges Wall Street to change
‘Wall Street cannot resume taking risks without regard for consequences’

BREAKING NEWS

updated 4 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama sternly warned Wall Street against returning to reckless and unchecked behavior that had threatened the nation with a second Great Depression.

Even as he noted the U.S. economy and financial system were pulling out of a downward spiral, Obama warned financial titans on Monday — the first anniversary of the Lehman Brothers collapse — they could not count on any more bailouts.
…………

So Bush starts the bank bailouts because the failure of the financial industry would be the end of the world as we know it. Of course when Obama took the helm, he continued on the same course. Now he thinks he can tell the banks that they’ll have to live the consequences of their actions? Either it wasn’t necessary to bail them out before, or it will be necessary again. Fool the Office of the President once, shame on you….

Comment by ACH
2009-09-14 10:31:32

Does that mean I finally get “perp walks”?

Roidy

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 10:51:17

“President Barack Obama sternly warned Wall Street against returning to reckless and unchecked behavior that had threatened the nation with a second Great Depression”.

I’m sure that has the boyz trembling in their Gucci’s. They just did a little re-tooling and went right back to what they do best.

Comment by bink
2009-09-14 12:02:33

They’ll have many laughs about that comment tonight over drinks and cigars.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 10:56:55

President Barack Obama sternly warned Wall Street against returning to reckless and unchecked behavior that had threatened the nation with a second Great Depression.

Good - presumably he’ll be pushing hard then for HR 1207 (the Fed audit bill), which will serve to put a spotlight on this behavior.

Otherwise Obama’s words are mere lip service.

 
 
Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-14 09:47:02

My tip for today: Never buy a used American car with over 100,000 miles on it. i bought my first one six months ago, a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Always needs something fixed on it, luckily parts are cheep. What was I thinking?

Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 09:51:46

I have a ‘99 Toyota 4runner with 162k on it. Still runs well (bought it with 62k on it), but the alternator just died. Had AAA come out to give me a jump so I could get it to the shop. It died in the center lane about to turn left into the shop. So close, yet so far :)

Overall, I’ve not had to put much money into the vehicle. I hate to think about having to shop for a “new” used car….hopefully won’t be in the near future

 
Comment by Kim
2009-09-14 09:53:35

DH has a Jeep Grand Cherokee with 180K miles on it. The reason he has kept it so long is exactly because parts for it come cheap.

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-14 10:10:28

mine has 140k on it. The 6 cyl cast iron engines are bullet proof, but everything else breaks or rattles. I had a 740 Volvo with 245k and all I ever did was regular maintenance. My BIL has a 2004 Yukon, that has completely fallen apart at 90k.

Comment by In Montana
2009-09-14 14:55:49

Consumer Reports has been showing forever that the older Cherokees suck for things going wrong. Otherwise I might have bought one too.

By old meaning 3-4 years.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 10:01:12

I have a 1992 Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser Station wagon. Bought it with 150,000 miles, has 250,000 miles and still going strong. Certain parts needed to be replaced due to wear and tear. Parts are getting harder to find for the old beauty.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-14 11:49:23

I had the tranny go out on an 89 Nissan Maxima when it had only 70K on the odo. We bought it new.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 12:17:41

Not that it should matter that much @ 70K only, but did you ever flush it? Was it manual or auto?

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 19:21:06

if it’s yellow, let it mellow…

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-14 12:17:36

well for $500 it was a great DEAL….right?

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 13:40:00

I think it just depends on the vehicle. The quality control seems to be a real issue at GM. My truck, bought new in 2005, has had a host of problems even though I’ve maintained it religiously. Others have zero issues. I’ve gone on some forums where people are close to 300k miles on the same engine. Others have gotten 200k out of transmissions. It’s the luck of the draw.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 10:44:34

How about Japan and China sell their junk back and forth to one another.

Incoming Tokyo government threatens split with US
A split is emerging between the United States and Japan over the new Tokyo government’s anti-globalisation rhetoric and its threats to end a refueling agreement for US ships in support of the war in Afghanistan.

New Tokyo government threatens split with US
Yukio Hatoyama blamed the US for the ills of capitalism AP

Yukio Hatoyama, the leader of the Democratic Party of Japan, has caused alarm in Washington after publishing an article blaming the US for the ills of capitalism, the global economy and “the destruction of human dignity”.

He also intends to examine an agreement that permits US warships to dock at Japanese ports, in violation of the nation’s non-nuclear principles. Mr Hatoyama says he will also look again at the $6 billion cost faced by Japan to transfer thousands of US troops from their base in Okinawa to the Pacific island of Guam amid a wide-ranging review of the American military presence on Japanese soil.

His election campaign promised a more “independent” foreign policy from Washington and closer relations with Asian neighbours, including China. On Thursday, he repeated his intention to defy the US and end the Maritime Self-Defence Force’s resupply mission in the Indian Ocean.

Mr Hatoyama will be sworn in on Wednesday after an historic victory that ended decades of near unbroken rule by the Liberal Democratic Party. He will have his first meeting with Barack Obama, the US president, at the United Nations on Sep 22.

The Pentagon reminded Japan of the expectations it faced as a “great power and one of the world’s wealthiest countries”. Geoff Morrell, a spokesman, said: “There is an international responsibility, we believe, for everyone to do their share, as best they can, to contribute to this effort to bring about a more peaceful and secure Afghanistan.”

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-14 10:54:29

Judge rejects deal between SEC, BofA over bonuses

14th, 2009 | NEW YORK — A federal judge on Monday rejected a $33 million settlement between the Securities and Exchange Commission and Bank of America Corp. over bonuses paid by Merrill Lynch.

U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff called the proposed consent judgment “inadequate.”

Rakoff wrote in an opinion that the $33 million settlement was a “trivial penalty for a false statement that materially infected a multi-billion-dollar merger.”

Rakoff set a Feb. 1 trial date for the case. The SEC had filed civil charges against Bank of America, saying it misled shareholders about bonus payments given to Merrill Lynch employees.

Last month, Rakoff ordered the SEC to explain why it didn’t pursue charges against specific executives at Bank of America over the accusations.

Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America agreed to acquire Merrill in a shotgun deal a year ago at the height of the credit crisis. It was later revealed that Merrill, with the knowledge of Bank of America executives, accelerated $3.6 billion in bonus payments before the deal was closed on Jan. 1.

Both Bank of America and the SEC did not provide immediate comment on the ruling.

Comment by samk
2009-09-14 11:03:20

I was just going to post this! Love some of the language in the Judge’s Order.

Can be read here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/bofaorder914.pdf

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 11:19:58

who’s gonna pay that $33M? Who’s gonna pay the new penalty of $5,000,000,000 or whatever amount that judge dreams up?

While BofA and it’s stock holders might suffer at first, the fine is just a cost of doing business and will eventually be passed onto us consumers / taxpayers like everything else .. and i’d rather pay the lesser amount.

I still think Obama and company will shut that judge down. The administration is baling water out of the boat and this judge is pouring water into the boat..

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 16:03:08

By the way, Joey, which bank employs you?

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 13:54:47

SanFranQL:

Ya beat me too! I posted it twice with a disclaimer!! Go read the 13 page order. NY Times. Good Judge, for sure. Bastards.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 11:01:53

From everything that’s come out today, it appears as if Obama has become just another patsy of Wall St. Sickening. I thought he’d show more balls.

Comment by blackwater
2009-09-14 12:08:08

Obama is the greatest thing that happened to WallStreet.

Thing about it who would have done a better sales job for WS? Obama or McCain?

Had McCain been the president, we would have seen 10 times the crowd over the weekends…..

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 13:06:18

I hardly think McSame would have improved anything. After all, he shares the same beliefs as that failure who brought us to where we are. Given the choice of McSame and Obama, I would still choose Obama. I’m just not thrilled with how he’s handled the issues pertaining to Wall St. greed. There’s still time for him to get it right, and he’s said a lot of the right things. I just want to see some action.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 14:24:05

I agree Obama and just about every congressman has allowed Wallstreet to walk all over tax payers and citizens. McCain would not have been different, as I recall his name comes up when you search the savings and loan collapse.

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:46:21

And his treasury advisor and good buddy was Phil Graham.

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-15 09:23:20

one shudders at the thought …

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 11:19:51

To the proponents of ObamaCare:

This blog is filled with thousands of posts attacking the corruption and incompetence at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the SEC, Dept of Justice. And rightfully so.

And yet you all believe that the very same federal government, with the same culture of incompetence/corruption will efficiently manage the delivery of health care to 310 million people? The federal government couldn’t figure out Madoff was stealing $50B after investigating him several times, but it will run 1/6 of the economy well. They thought rules allowing a $710K for a mortgage to a strawberry picker making $14K a year was a good idea, but they will save money running health care.

I’d like to understand how you reconcile all of this.

Comment by gmac
2009-09-14 11:43:05

+100000

I argue the same way with my friends who believe Gobmint will fix everything. Although I am inclined to market oriented solutions but I am honest enough to believe that there’s not a single bullet to fix a complex issue like health care. The blind faith in gobmint is what bothers me the most considering it’s track record.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 12:13:14

Sickness care is a sore subject for many, it does need to be over hauled, but gubmint is bound to create a worse mess. That said, a bill of some sort will pass, of that I am 100% certain. It will cost 2-3-4 times what they estimate, it will be top heavy, and millions will be disappointed.

That should come as no surprise to anyone, gubmint is 100% effective when is comes to inefficiency. Of course this time it’s different, like it always is. Riiiight.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 12:17:47

Stick to housing please.

Thank you.

Comment by Carl Morris
2009-09-14 13:20:41

Wow.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 13:38:38

Stick to housing please.

Thank you.

Click.

Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 15:11:20

click +1

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Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 12:20:19

Columnist Bob Herbert: “There’s a lot to appreciate in the latest incarnation of the Democrats’ Sisyphean-like campaign to overhaul the nation’s health care system.”

“Sisyphean-like” is a tad lofty, Bob. Unless, of course, you don’t want the average reader to know what the hell you are talking about. You meant to call the Democrat medical care overhaul campaign “laborious and futile,” so why didn’t you? Mr. and Mrs. Average American just don’t use phrases such as “Sisyphean-like.”

By the way, who started the fad of calling medical services “health care?” It’s very misleading and is botching up the debate in a big way. Doctors and hospitals dispense medical services, not “health care.” When the ambulance arrives as your door EMS professionals attend to you. EMS = Emergency Medical Services, not Emergency Health Care.

The misnomer is everywhere. Consider the “health food store.” One can find plenty of healthful foods at the average grocery store amidst the loads of junk foods. The “health food store” carries less junk, perhaps, and the prices can be outrageously high. They are more devious about their labeling, too. Instead of listing “sugar” on a box of breakfast cereal they will call it “evaporated cane juice.” Their display cases of chopped up animal parts are impressive, yet we wonder if their pricey hamburger is more “healthful” than the lower priced stuff at the store down the street.

Health, it seems to us, is something one works with nature to achieve. When something goes wrong we seek medical care. So why aren’t we debating medical care and medical insurance?

Comment by Skip
2009-09-14 12:55:56

Sisyphus was happy though.

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-14 23:49:19

Or so one imagines…

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 13:44:28

“The federal government couldn’t figure out Madoff was stealing $50B after investigating him several times, but it will run 1/6 of the economy well.”

If you believe they couldn’t figure Madoff out, you’re impressionable to say the least. They knew exactly what he was doing, they were just complicit and corrupt.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 14:27:11

Arguement

1. Medicare and VA deliver care more cost effectively than private insurance, as do many other socialized systems.

If I have to make a comparison between one arm of gov and another, you should have to compare ENRON ect with our insurance industry.

You some how believe insurance companies are more honest and accountable than government.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 14:41:51

1. Medicare and VA deliver care more cost effectively than private insurance, as do many other socialized systems.

Given a law-enforced revenue stream, and the ability to just go broke, as Medicare is in the process of doing - it’s pretty dang easy to deliver a “cost-effective” product.

Comment by In Montana
2009-09-14 14:59:12

esp when they can shift the true cost overruns to the private sector. Who’s gonna pick up the slack if goobmint is the only game in town?

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Comment by measton
2009-09-14 19:21:19

You have it completely backwards, private industry shifts the costs to the gov. I’ve had 3 patients this week who have lost their medical insurance after being diagnosed with cancer. Medicaid and other programs pick up the tab. Again England spends 40% per captia that we do. France half what we do and they ahve better outcomes. The VA treats a very sick population and has not had the same degree of medical cost inflation seen in the private sector. They also have in many cases better outcomes data.

Tell us Mondatana how exactly does medicare shift costs to the private secrot in a way that makes the private sector so much less efficient.

 
 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-14 18:57:15

If you don’t think of it as “this blog”, and look at the individual posters, you’ll answer your own question. Most who oppose ‘Obama-care’ also think that a magical free market will solve everything, just like it *never* has before. When you point this out to them, they say your many examples don’t count, because they weren’t ‘perfect’ free markets. Can you, finally, provvide us with a single example, in all of human history, of a truly free market that worked? Ever? Anywhere? Can anyone?

Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 21:20:48

Not that I’m taking a position in this debate, but can you point to a truly free market in a place where the rule of law exists? Ever? Anywhere?

How can your assertion stand (that a ‘free market’ has never solved anything), if you can’t provide such an example?

 
Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-09-14 22:15:01

Because of the corrupt nature of man, we can’t have nice things. Give it up, your fantasy of some efficient, caring system will only result in you, waiting in a vast line, with plenty of chances to brush up on your Spanish.

Want to see the future of healthcare? Visit Parkland Hospital in Dallas, Texas. Imagine all the options being just like that.

I’

 
 
 
Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-14 11:27:42

This is the sort of local junk I hate:
http://www.slocountyhomes.idxco.com/idx/3482/details.php?idxID=239&listingID=158598

Not worth half that.

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 12:04:26

Good lord, over half a mil for that! I know we’ve seen that type of crap for years, but what in the world is holding the numbers up in so many places.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 12:15:50

OMG. That’s awesome.

No front door or front porch, so I guess the “front” door is on the driveway side. That clever second story addition that overhangs the driveway would shelter the “front” door from the rain, eliminating the need for a porch - you could stand under the overhang while opening your umbrella. Brilliant outside-the-box home design.

:lol:

Comment by DennisN
2009-09-14 13:17:43

It would be interesting to see the permits for the 2nd story addition.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 16:43:39

:-)

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 18:05:13

Check out the chimney. Do you think it runs straight up through the “Master Suite”?

I really doubt the flue takes four 90 degree turns through the floor and ceiling..

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 19:33:20

maybe there’s a drop down fire escape in the overhang

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-14 12:17:58

It’s not even worth looking for homes in coastal CA right now. Still WAY overpriced. Probably take several more years to see anything rightly priced.

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-14 12:59:00

AG is not even coastal in the good sense. No jobs, lots of white trash west of the 101. I guess the Realtor is just as stupid for listing it. And that is a brand new listing!!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 17:51:52

Yep. Everyone is still intoxicated on green shoots moonshine, so far as I can tell…

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 11:31:59

All Free Library of Philadelphia Branch, Regional and Central Libraries Closed Effective Close of Business October 2, 2009

All Free Library of Philadelphia Customers,

We deeply regret to inform you that without the necessary budgetary legislation by the State Legislature in Harrisburg, the City of Philadelphia will not have the funds to operate our neighborhood branch libraries, regional libraries, or the Parkway Central Library after October 2, 2009.

Specifically, the following will take effect after the close of business, October 2, 2009:

* All branch and regional library programs, including programs for children and teens, after school programs, computer classes, and programs for adults, will be cancelled
* All Parkway Central Library programs, including children programs, programs to support small businesses and job seekers, computer classes and after school programs, will be cancelled. We are exploring the possibility of relocating the Philadelphia Author Series programs to other non-library facilities.
* All library visits to schools, day care centers, senior centers and other community centers will cease.
* All community meetings at our branch and regional libraries, and the Parkway Central Library, will be cancelled.
* All GED, ABE and ESL programs held at Free Library branches will be discontinued, students should contact their teacher to see if other arrangements are being made.

In addition, all library materials will be due on October 1, 2009. This will result in a diminishing borrowing period for books and other library materials, beginning September 11, 2009. No library materials will be able to be borrowed after September 30, 2009.

Comment by drumminj
2009-09-14 11:59:21

This means they need less bureaucrats to manage the library system, right? So they’ll be letting go some gov’t employees and cutting the budget even more?

What do you mean ‘No?’

(grumble….)

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 11:46:20

President Obama Speaks - And Lies (Again)

President Obama stood in New York at “high noon” and talked about how we must have “change”, and that we have “helped homeowners avoid foreclosures”, how “we must put in place reforms” and that “we have helped come back from the brink” and “an irresponsible period of crisis.”
In fact, in his speech he said:

So I want to urge you to demonstrate that you take this obligation to heart. To put greater effort into helping families who need their mortgages modified under my administration’s homeownership plan. To help small business owners who desperately need loans and who are bearing the brunt of the decline in available credit. To help communities that would benefit from the financing you could provide, or the community development institutions you could support. To come up with creative approaches to improve financial education and to bring banking to those who live and work entirely outside the banking system. And, of course, to embrace serious financial reform, not fight it.

Really Mr. President?

Perhaps you would like to explain this - the outcome of the FHA under your Administration thus far?

1 month delinquent = 7.74%
3 or more month delinquent = 8.48%

Total current delinquency and foreclosure rate = 21.43%

Bluntly: You’re lying when it comes to having these institutions make only sustainable, safe and sound loans, along with helping Americans keep their homes.

(From K. Denninger)

Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 12:14:29

So he must put forth more effort to help FB’ers?

Cobalt, you’re all over the map these days. Make up your mind.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 12:34:12

To come up with creative approaches to improve financial education and to bring banking to those who live and work entirely outside the banking system.

Translation: We need a new offensive push in the War On Savers; route them out of their holes for the final death blow!

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-09-14 12:17:05

Report from Loudoun county, VA (DC far suburb):

After having a quite-large spring bounce, it appears things are leveling off, as of August. Per MRIS stats - median prices went up quite a bit actually, from about 300k to about 340k, taking a rolling 3-month average to smooth out variations. Sales price as a percentage of list had gone up quite a bit - from about 91% to 95%, but now has leveled off. Year-over-year sales are now down quite a bit, whereas they had been up a lot last fall and during the winter. Listings are still *way* down vs. last year, though are creeping back up now.

I think we’ll enter the doldrums again this winter, with prices falling some again. The “recovery” seems to be elevated here somewhat relative to most areas - I think in large part just because so much of the income in this area is government-driven. Unemployment is only 4.8% here.

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 12:23:17

“I think in large part just because so much of the income in this area is government-driven”.

I would venture to say, that is a safe bet.

Now all gubmint has to do is ’save’ or ‘create’ a sh!t load more jobs!

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 13:34:34

Well you know, Halliburton common stock has appreciated 59% since Obama Inauguration Day, so there’s one potential healthy employer for ya.

This obviously demonstrates the level of committment of the Democratic admin and Congress to the noble causes of the Left, as opposed to the “evil” Bush.

Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 15:13:39

You’re obsessed cobalt.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 15:55:16

“obsessed”: To be factually, painfully correct .

Exeter’s Unabridged Dictionary.

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2009-09-14 15:58:18

Take the plank out of your eye.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 17:29:33

The only pain I detect is in cobalts mad rantings…. and those who adhere to them. ;)

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 19:30:23

Obama continues to do business with mercinaries like XE ie Blackwater.

It’s clear that many disagree on the roll gov should play in many areas, but the one thing we should all agree on is that public private partnerships are the absolute worst model. When medicare pays insurance companies to manage accounts, when gov pays mercinaries to fight wars, when gov bails out banks. This all leads to privatizing the gains and socializing the losses. Unfortunately I think that’s what is going to happen in with health care. They will mandate everyone get insurance and then to keep the low end middle class from rioting they will hand out a few vouchers. They will covertly tax people who get good quality insurance plans through their emplyer. People screamed bloody murder when they talked about taxing people directly for their insurance plan but they’ll slide a tax on insurnace companies by them and then insurance companies will raise the rates for said plans. The elite will continue to skim off the system and the rape of the middle class will continue. i

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 04:23:03

Agree with all you said, measton.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 13:24:35

Good Judge. Maybe, “When the Whip Comes Down” Time Here. Whole text is @ NY Times.

A Federal District judge on Monday overturned a settlement between the Bank of America and the Securities and Exchange Commission over bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch executives just before the bank took over Merrill last year.
Text of the Ruling
The judge said that Bank of America “materially lied” in shareholder communications about the bonuses.

The $33 million settlement “does not comport with the most elementary notions of justice and morality,” wrote Jed S. Rakoff, the judge assigned to the case in federal court in Lower Manhattan

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-14 13:33:59

Go to the Ny Times and read the entire 13 page decision. It is a good read.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-14 14:13:32

Tax evaders rush to beat amnesty deadline

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Rich Americans who have evaded taxes by hiding foreign holdings have about a week to turn themselves in to an Internal Revenue Service amnesty program or gamble they will not be caught.

U.S. citizens with undeclared assets in tax havens such as Switzerland face a September 23 deadline to reveal their holdings, pay a fine and generally avoid criminal prosecution. When that amnesty program expires, any tax cheats found by the government could face criminal prosecution.

The IRS expects to find some tax evaders soon. UBS AG, the Swiss banking giant, agreed to hand over to the IRS the names of about 4,450 secret accounts as part of a court settlement reached last month.

“This is sort of their last, best chance if they are going to get off with lenient treatment,” said Evan Stewart, a regulatory lawyer at the firm Zuckerman Spaeder.

“If you’re sitting there and you’ve sheltered $50 million from the U.S. government, are you willing to gamble with the (list of) 4,500 (names) and live in terror for a year?” Stewart said.

The IRS said that, in one week of July, about 400 individuals turned themselves in under the amnesty program. That was four times higher than the number of tax evaders who stepped forward in all of 2008, according to the agency.

The IRS declined to provide any other figures about participation in its amnesty program.

IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman warned investors with money or securities in overseas accounts to step forward before the deadline.

“Once the Swiss government turns over names, all bets are off,” he said when announcing the UBS deal.

It appears to be working.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-14 15:00:52

well.. Despite what one reads in the MSM, neither UBS nor the Swiss govt has come anywhere near agreeing to release any account numbers or names. A tribunal is scheduled for sometime in the future. Negotiations between the US and Swiss govts are ongoing.

While the IRS may increase penalties if you force them to go and find you, any amnesty deadline is a fabrication..

Word is a few names were given up by a renegade Swiss ex-banker who knows some stuff.. but that’s about it.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 15:24:04

How’s Big Brother’s TruthSpeak Going Over?

Trust in News Media Falls to New Low in Pew Survey
By RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA

Trust in news media has reached a new low, with record numbers of Americans saying reporting is inaccurate, biased and shaped by special interests, according to a survey set to be released Monday.

The survey of 1,506 people interviewed in July by the Pew Research Center showed that self-described Republicans continued to take the dimmest view of news organizations, but discontent among Democrats was catching up.

On crucial measures of credibility, faith in news media eroded from the 1980s to the ’90s, then held fairly steady for several years, according to Pew surveys that have asked some of the same questions for more than two decades. But in the two years since the last survey, those views became markedly more negative.

In this year’s survey, 63 percent of respondents said news articles were often inaccurate and only 29 percent said the media generally “get the facts straight” — the worst marks Pew has recorded — compared with 53 percent and 39 percent in 2007.

Seventy-four percent said news organizations favored one side or another in reporting on political and social issues, and the same percentage said the media were often influenced by powerful interests. Those, too, are the worst marks recorded in Pew surveys.

Negative opinions grew since 2007 among both major parties, but significantly more so among Democrats. The percentage of Democrats calling the media inaccurate rose to 59, from 43; the percentage who said the media took sides rose to 67, from 54.

Views of some specific news organizations split sharply along partisan lines, with differences between Republicans and Democrats often approaching 30 percentage points. Asked about CNN, MSNBC or network television news, Democrats were much more likely than Republicans to rate them favorably, and Republicans were much more likely than Democrats to see them unfavorably. Fox News was seen much more positively by Republicans, and more negatively by Democrats.

Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 15:35:33

Sorry if this came through twice:

Here is the headline on CNN right now.

“President says bailouts are working and economy is stabilizing”. No bias in the media, right down the middle. Just the facts mam.

 
 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-14 15:33:22

CNN headline today:

“President says bailouts are working and economy is stabilizing.”

See you guys are all crazy. The economy is ready to boom. CNN wouldn’t lie would it?

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 16:02:06

Interesting read from a historical perspective:

History Unfolding
By Dr. David Kaiser
9-14-9

I am a student of history. Professionally, I have written 15 books on history that have been published in six languages, and I have studied history all my life. I have come to think there is something monumentally large afoot, and I do not believe it is simply a banking crisis, or a mortgage crisis, or a credit crisis. Yes these exist, but they are merely single facets on a very large gemstone that is only now coming into a sharper focus.

Something of historic proportions is happening. I can sense it because I know how it feels, smells, what it looks like, and how people react to it. Yes, a perfect storm may be brewing, but there is something happening within our country that has been evolving for about ten to fifteen years. The pace has dramatically quickened in the past two.

We demand and then codify into law the requirement that our banks make massive loans to people we know they can never pay back? Why?

We learned just days ago that the Federal Reserve, which has little or no real oversight by anyone, has “loaned” two trillion dollars (that is $2,000,000,000,000) over the past few months, but will not tell us to whom or why or disclose the terms. That is our money. Yours and mine. And that is three times the $700 billion we all argued about so strenuously just this past September. Who has this money? Why do they have it? Why are the terms unavailable to us? Who asked for it? Who authorized it? I thought this was a government of “we the people,” who loaned our powers to our elected leaders. Apparently not.

We have spent two or more decades intentionally de-industrializing our economy.. Why?

We have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving. Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why?

We have now established the precedent of protesting every close election (violently in California over a proposition that is so controversial that it simply wants marriage to remain defined as between one man and one woman. Did you ever think such a thing possible just a decade ago?) We have corrupted our sacred political process by allowing unelected judges to write laws that radically change our way of life, and then mainstream Marxist groups like ACORN and others to turn our voting system into a banana republic. To what purpose?

Now our mortgage industry is collapsing, housing prices are in free fall, major industries are failing, our banking system is on the verge of collapse, social security is nearly bankrupt, as is Medicare and our entire government. Our education system is worse than a joke (I teach college and I know precisely what I am talking about) - the list is staggering in its length, breadth, and depth.. It is potentially 1929 x ten…And we are at war with an enemy we cannot even name for fear of offending people of the same religion, who, in turn, cannot wait to slit the throats of your children if they have the opportunity to do so…

link to full article: http://tinyurl.com/ocgqy8

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-09-14 18:23:00

He was doing good, until he started the “Obama = Hitler” rant.

Dear Republican Party………..Obama is in office, precisely because your actions/inaction have generated the biggest mess since the Great Depression (actually, it may end up being worse than the Great Depression; IMO it’s too early to call).

The Republican Party has held the reigns of power for 12 of the past 20 years, including the eight years prior to January 2009. Their remedies for the fiasco they created is more of the same crap that got us here to begin with. That, and gridlock the government for four years, in the hope that their versions of Joseph Goebbels cam persuade the Amerikan Volk into voting them back into office.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 16:13:27

Oh, Canada! Not much of a cushion under America’s hat:

Majority of Canadian employees living paycheque to paycheque, survey shows
Mon Sep 14, 5:12 AM
The Canadian Press

TORONTO - Nearly 60 per cent of Canadians would have trouble paying the bills if their paycheque was delayed by one week, a new polls suggests.

The Canadian Payroll Association survey says not only are the majority of Canadians living paycheque-to-paycheque, but they have little ability to put money away for their retirement. The survey, released Monday, said 59 per cent of Canadians would have trouble making ends meet if they missed a paycheque.

“We were surprised that people were that close to the line,” said Patrick Culhane, president and CEO of the not-for-profit association.

Culhane said those results are despite the common advice from financial planners that people should set aside three months of expenses for such items as rent, groceries and monthly bills, in case of an emergency.

Of those surveyed, the younger workforce felt the greatest pinch. The survey said 45 per cent of people aged 18-to-34 would be difficult or very difficult to make ends meet if a paycheque were delayed. Another 21 per cent in that age group said it would be somewhat difficult.

Not surprisingly, 72 per cent of single parents said missing a paycheque would cause a problem for meeting financial obligations.

The survey also found that 50 per cent of Canadian workers can’t save more than five per cent of their net pay for retirement, half of what financial experts often recommend.

Culhane said those results are despite the “guilt trip” Canadians get at the start of every year before the RRSP filing deadline.

“People know they have to do it,” he said.

However, Culhane acknowledged it has become even more difficult to save for retirement recently with the stock market swings.

About 52 per cent of those surveyed believe they need between $750,000 to $3 million to live comfortably in retirement.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 16:28:14

And not much of a cushion here either:

In early September, The US Census Bureau released its new report titled, “Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2008″ showing disturbing data that portends much worse ahead under a president and Congress doing nothing to address it.

In 2008, poverty reached 13.2% of the population, its highest level in 11 years, the result of millions losing jobs during the first year of the gravest economic crisis since the 1930s. For blacks, the figure was nearly double at 24.7%, and 31% of all Americans were impoverished for at least two months between 2004 and 2007, years of economic expansion.

At yearend 2008, even by the Bureau’s conservative measures, 39.8 million people were impoverished, the highest level since 1960, and 17.1 million lived in extreme poverty at below one-half the official threshold. In addition, for the first time since the 1930s, median household income failed to increase over a 10-year period from 1999 - 2008.

The Census Bureau states that it “presents annual estimates of median household income and poverty by state and other smaller geographic units based on data collected in the American Community Survey (ACS)” covering population areas of 20,000 or more. The Bureau’s Small Area Income and Poverty Estimates (SAIPE) program also produces yearly figures “for states and all counties, as well as population and poverty estimates for school districts.” It uses data from a variety of sources, including surveys, administrative records, inter-censal population estimates, and personal income data published by the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

Critics maintain that official government figures way understate the gravity of today’s crisis, and the Bureau says:

“The official poverty thresholds were developed more than 40 years ago and have been criticized for not taking into account rising (or since the 1970s inflation-adjusted falling) standards of living, expenses such as child care that are necessary to hold a job, variations in medical costs across population groups (that have skyrocketed nationally and are now unaffordable for millions), and geographic differences in the cost of living.”

In addition, income and poverty estimates are pre-tax and exclude non-cash benefits, usually employer-provided. Disposable personal income, after income, payroll, sales, property and other taxes, reveals a far higher poverty level than the Census Bureau reports and a much graver crisis for growing millions as the economic decline deepens.

The Bureau reported that 2008 median (inflation adjusted) household income fell 3.6%, the largest single-year decline on record to the lowest level since 1997 and falling as conditions continue to worsen.

Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 17:33:31

Incomes were lower in 2008 than they were in 2000.

Comment by packman
2009-09-14 21:38:54
Comment by exeter
2009-09-15 06:57:59

Pman I know you’re not that dumb.

Inflation adjusted incomes were lower in 2008 than they were in 2000.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-14 16:50:57

Starting to get tired of paying more? Just wait 60 days:

Tariff on Tires to Cost Consumers
by Timothy Aeppel
Monday, September 14, 2009

Consumers who buy low-price Chinese tires — the bulk of the tires China exports to the U.S. — will be hit hardest by the new tariff, as shortages in this market segment cause retailers to scramble to find alternative sources in other countries.

The tariffs, which apply to all Chinese tires, will cut off much of the flow of the more than 46 million Chinese tires that came to the U.S. last year, nearly 17% of all tires sold in the country.

The low end of the market will feel the impact of the tariff most, as U.S. manufacturers, who joined the Chinese in opposing the tariffs, have said it isn’t profitable to produce inexpensive tires in domestic plants.

“I think within the next 60 days you’ll see some pretty significant price increases,” said Jim Mayfield, president of Del-Nat Tire Corp. of Memphis, Tenn., a large importer and distributor of Chinese tires. He estimates prices for “entry-level” tires could increase 20% to 30%.

Low-end tires cost roughly $50 to $60 apiece, while premium tires can sell for $200 to $250.

It will take many months for producers in places like Indonesia and Brazil to pick up the slack. And any tire manufacturer that wants to get involved in the low-end business would have to revamp factory lines to produce the sizes and types of tires favored by U.S. consumers, a costly and complicated process.

There could also be shortages, Mr. Mayfield said, as existing supplies run low and importers have trouble finding alternative sources. Many importers stopped placing orders for Chinese tires several weeks ago, fearing they might end up ordering tires that would carry a hefty tariff by the time they arrived in U.S. ports.

The tariffs won’t just hit Chinese producers. Both of the U.S.’s remaining domestic manufacturers — Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. and Cooper Tire & Rubber Co. — make tires in China that they sell in the U.S. Cooper this year is on track to import 2.5 million tires that it made in China. It was planning to boost that to four million next year.

Most of the tires coming from China are sold under private-label names and little-known discount brands.

Comment by yensoy
2009-09-14 17:32:00

Oh what did we do 10 years ago? I hate to go back to day of the non-pneumatic tire like they had in the horse carts.

Anyone notice how most of the cars of the last decade used 70, 75 and even 80 profile tires and the current ones use 60 and lower profiles? Of course prices have shot through the roof. Let’s get back to more sensible design (we can build equally safe cars with 70 profile tires).

SUV tires, well that’s another story altogether. Stop driving that road hog.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-14 17:32:19

Raising the white flag to China? Again???

 
 
Comment by neuromance
2009-09-14 18:51:00

I just heard Obama threatening Wall Street that “there will not be another bailout.” I guffawed - wasn’t the bailout not about Wall Street but about saving the rest of us from Great Depression Part Deux? What?

I just guffawed. The Wall Street operators are only concerned about their personal wealth. Business as usual allows them to become as wealthy as robber barons while beggaring the rest of the country. I heard the threat of no new bailout and imagined the Wall Streeters thinking, “Oh no! Don’t throw this rabbit into the briar patch!”

The speech was for public consumption of course. Is the public that stupid that they would believe that the Wall Streeters would fear this kabuki theater speech as some kind of legitimate threat, and believe that Obama is really cracking the whip?

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-14 20:19:36

Such a good point you make neuromance about the lack of teeth to
the threat that never seem to end up becoming new law or new regulations . I have been watching this PR machine for 3 years now simply talk about regulation ,we have to do this or that ,but nothing that really is true regulation that has teeth . The only thing I can conclude is that while we are in bail out mode ,regulation would be counter productive to that goal of enrichment of chosen groups .

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 19:44:27

Nice interview on NPR today with Simon Johnson

onpointradio.org/2009/09/wall-street-a-year-after-lehmans-fall

Comment by measton
2009-09-14 20:04:54

This is a bit from his Blog

Financial markets have stabilized – people believe that the US and West European governments will not allow big financial institutions to fail. We have effectively nationalized any banking system losses, but we’ll let bank executives enjoy the full benefits of the upside. How much shareholders participate remains to be seen; there will be no effective reining in of insider compensation (my version; Joe Nocera’s view). Small and medium-sized banks, however, will continue to fail as problems in commercial real estate continue to mount.

The economic recovery, in the short-term, may be surprisingly strong in terms of headline numbers; this is a standard feature of emerging markets after a crisis (e.g., Russia from 1998 or Argentina after 2002). Official short-term forecasts are probably now too low, as the IMF and other organizations make the case for continued fiscal stimulus and very loose monetary policy.
However, a two-track economy appears to be developing: one part will do well (e.g., around big banks on Wall Street), and another part will struggle (many consumers and firms around the world want to reduce their debt; the same thing happened in Japan’s “lost decade”). During the 1990s, Japan had some years with good growth, but overall the decade was a disappointing deceleration of growth; the same could be true now at the global level.

Longer term U.S. growth prospects remain particularly uncertain – has consumer behavior really changed; if finance doesn’t drive growth, what will; is the budget deficit under control or not (note: most of the guarantees extended to banks and other financial institutions are not scored in the budget)? The implication, presumably, is higher taxes on the productive nonfinancial part of the economy – to pay for the implicit subsidies and ongoing rents of the financial sector. While many entrepreneurs understand and resent this math, they are strikingly unwilling to do anything about – or even speak out on – reining in the power of the biggest banks. Even the smaller banks – who have really been hammered by the actions of larger banks – are only just now figuring this out and beginning to express resentment; sadly, this is too late to make much difference.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 21:03:56

Thanks for that; I’ve copied to listen tomorrow AM. I haven’t heard Simon Johnson for a while - he makes so much sense.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 19:47:26

NYT piece
“Far from eagerly micromanaging the companies the government owns, Mr. Obama and his economic team have often labored mightily to avoid exercising control even when government money was the only thing keeping some companies afloat.

“A few weeks ago, there were anguished grimaces inside the Treasury Department as the new chief executive of A.I.G., Robert H. Benmosche, whose roughly $9 million pay package is 22 times greater than Mr. Obama’s, ridiculed officials in Washington — his majority shareholders — as ‘crazies.’

“Causing even more unease to policymakers, Mr. Benmosche insisted that A.I.G. — one of the worst offenders in the risk-taking that sent the nation over the edge last year — would not rush to sell its businesses at fire-sale prices, despite pressure from Fed and Treasury officials, who are desperate to have the insurer repay its $180 billion government bailout.

“But in the end, according to one senior official, ‘no one called him and told him to shut up,’ and no one has pulled rank and told him to sell assets as soon as possible to repay the loans.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 20:06:17

Last post
baselinescenario.com/2009/09/13/economic-donkeys/

The real problem with our financial system is that our economic and political system work together to encourage excessive risk, and this risk in turn leads to cycles of prosperity and collapse. In 1998, a much smaller Lehman Brothers was placed in financial peril by the aftermath of the Asian financial crisis and failure of Long Term Capital Management, a major hedge fund. The Federal Reserve responded by lowering interest rates and other central banks followed suit. This reduced the cost of obtaining funds, effectively bailing out Lehman and other institutions in trouble.

As markets have grown to recognize how quick the Federal Reserve is to bail out institutions (and executives) in trouble, they naturally respond. In the 1990s, people talked about the “Greenspan Put” a term which derisively suggests that it is always safe to invest in risky assets, because the Federal Reserve is ready to bail out investors (a put is effectively a promise to buy an asset at a fixed price if you are unable to sell it to someone else at a higher price – this is a way to lock-in profits or limit losses on investments). However, in months following the collapse of Lehman, we learned that the “Bernanke Put” is even more valuable since Chairman Bernanke, alongside the Bank of England, the European Central Bank, and central banks in much of the rest of the world, is prepared to take drastic measures to prevent asset prices from falling when there are risks of global collapse.

This policy of responding to the aftermath of bubbles, rather than addressing them before they get going, through tighter regulation, has become the mantra of most central banks. It is usually combined with fiscal policy stimulus and other measures to support the economy. Each time banks fail, by bailing the system out again, we teach our finance sector a lesson: you can safely take too much risk because, when you lose, the taxpayer will pick up the bill. We also send a simple message to creditors: it is safe to lend to Goldman Sachs, or Barclays Bank, because taxpayers and our nations’ savers are standing by to cover your losses. Rational bank executives and creditors respond as any person would: creditors lend to banks at low interest rates, and our banks gamble heavily hoping to make large profits. Such a system is destined to fail, but the party can run for a long time.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 20:31:37

This WSJ article seems to confirm what many posters here have long suspected: That the Plunge Protection Team has focused its efforts on propping up US housing prices.

The multi-trillion dollar question: Is the PPT-engineered permanently high plateau, on which home prices have come to rest, sustainable? Probably for long enough to keep this would-be homeowner permanently out of the market, anyway.

Good night, and good luck!

The Wall Street Journal
SEPTEMBER 15, 2009

No Easy Exit for Government as Housing Market’s Savior

By JON HILSENRATH and DEBORAH SOLOMON

In a speech on Wall Street a year after Lehman Brothers collapsed, President Barack Obama said Monday the need for the government to keep stabilizing the financial system “is waning.” His administration released a 51-page report detailing rescue programs that are slowly being scaled back. But the Treasury Department, author of the report, noted that housing is one area where it’s too early to exit.

Over the past year, the government has intervened heavily at essentially every stage of the home-buying process. In fact, more than 80% of the new residential mortgage loans made this year benefited from some form of government support, according to the trade publication Inside Mortgage Finance.

To keep funds flowing to the housing market, the government bailed out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac last year and now effectively owns the mortgage finance giants and their combined $5.4 trillion in loan portfolios. To keep mortgage rates low, the Federal Reserve is on track to purchase nearly $1.5 trillion in debt issued or guaranteed by the government’s various mortgage arms and another $300 billion in Treasurys, which set the benchmark for home lending.

And to boost sales, the government also is offering $8,000 tax credits to first-time home buyers.

Those efforts appear to have had the intended effect of braking the housing market’s plunge. They prompted Jonathan Swinton and his wife, Annie, to plunge into the market ahead of schedule. The couple plans to close on a $226,000 home in a suburb of Salt Lake City in the coming weeks.

We had always wanted to buy a home, but we had been planning to wait a couple of years,” says Mr. Swinton, who recently completed course work for a Ph.D. in family therapy at Kansas State University and is now working at a mental health facility in Salt Lake City. “The low interest rates and the tax credit were the two primary factors that motivated us to buy this year.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 22:04:15

MarketWatch recently ran a story about how the Lehman failure was a huge mistake in crisis management. It is great to see some top academic financial economists call BS on that view.

OPINION
SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
Lehman and the Financial Crisis

The lesson is that institutions that take trading risks must be allowed to fail.

By JOHN H. COCHRANE AND LUIGI ZINGALES

One year ago today Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy. The weeks that followed are among the most dramatic in U.S. history. They led to a massive government intervention in the financial system—an intervention that will likely change that system forever.

Many people say that letting Lehman fail was the mistake that caused the financial crisis. To them, the lesson is that the government should never allow any “systemically important” financial institution to fail. If only Lehman had been bailed out, the story goes, we could have avoided much of a 45% drop in the S&P 500, a 4% drop in output, the rise in unemployment to 9.7% from 6.2%, and the $784 billion “stimulus” to top off a $1.59 trillion deficit.

This story is false.

The Lehman failure was not an isolated event. It was a movement in a dramatic crescendo of failures.

Two weeks prior, on Sept. 7, the government took over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, wiping out much of their shareholder equity. On Sept. 16, the government bailed out AIG, lending it $85 billion. On Sept. 25, Washington Mutual, the nation’s sixth-largest bank, was seized by the FDIC. On Sept. 29, Wachovia, the nation’s seventh-largest bank, was sold to avoid a similar fate. All this would have happened without Lehman. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department went to Congress to ask for $700 billion for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP).

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 04:41:21

One of the things that most bothers me about this entire financial “crisis” is the way the Lehman failure is portrayed as the catalyst for the “financial collapse.”

Lehman’s failure was NOT the cause of the financial crisis. Lehman’s failure was a **result** of the collapse that had been going on for well over a year by that point.

There, just had to get that out. ;)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 22:17:28

Here is guidance on how to spark a panic and create Congressional support for subsequent bailout measures:

Which of these events set off the financial and economic crisis by freezing lending to commercial banks? The nearby chart shows that the main risk indicators only took off after Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke’s TARP speeches to Congress on Sept. 23 and 24—not after the Lehman failure.

The risk of Citibank failure (the Citi-CDS spread) and the cost of interbank lending (the Libor-OIS spread) rose dramatically after Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson spoke to Congress. (In basis points.)
On Sept. 22, bank credit-default swap (CDS) spreads were at the same level as on Sept. 12. (CDS spreads are the cost of buying insurance against default.) On Sept. 19, the S&P 500 closed above its Sept. 12 level. The Libor-OIS spread—which captures the perceived riskiness of short-term interbank lending—rose only 18 points the day of Lehman’s collapse, while it shot up more than 60 points from Sept. 23 to Sept. 25, after the TARP testimony. (Libor—the London Interbank Offer Rate—is the rate at which banks can borrow unsecured for three months.)

Why? In effect, these speeches amounted to “The financial system is about to collapse. We can’t tell you why. We need $700 billion. We can’t tell you what we’re going to do with it.” That’s a pretty good way to start a financial crisis.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-14 22:27:38

MANAGEMENT
SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
Judge Tosses Out Bonus Deal
SEC Pact With BofA Over Merrill Is Slammed; New York Weighs Charges Against Lewis

BY KARA SCANNELL, LIZ RAPPAPORT AND JESS BRAVIN

A federal judge threw out the Securities and Exchange Commission’s proposed settlement with Bank of America over its disclosure of controversial bonuses paid to Merrill Lynch employees, in an unusual ruling that casts doubts about how the agency handles probes of major U.S. companies.

The order, by U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff, came as the New York State attorney general was weighing civil-fraud charges against Bank of America Corp. executives. Charges could be brought against the bank’s chief executive, Kenneth Lewis, and Chief Financial Officer Joseph Price, according to a person familiar with the investigation.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-14 23:06:22

pb, thanks for all you do

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-15 04:43:11

I second that. Thanks, PB.

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-09-14 22:56:14

Telegraph uk

Similar concerns have been raised by David Rosenberg, chief strategist at Gluskin Sheff, who said that over the four weeks up to August 24, bank credit shrank at an “epic” 9pc annual pace, the M2 money supply shrank at 12.2pc and M1 shrank at 6.5pc.

“For the first time in the post-WW2 [Second World War] era, we have deflation in credit, wages and rents and, from our lens, this is a toxic brew,” he said.

It is unclear why the US Federal Reserve has allowed this to occur.

Chairman Ben Bernanke is an expert on the “credit channel” causes of depressions and has given eloquent speeches about the risks of deflation in the past.

He is not a monetary economist, however, and there are indications that the Fed has had to pare back its policy of quantitative easing (buying bonds) in order to reassure China and other foreign creditors that the US is not trying to devalue its debts by stealth monetisation.

Mr Congdon said a key reason for credit contraction is pressure on banks to raise their capital ratios. While this is well-advised in boom times, it makes matters worse in a downturn.

“The current drive to make banks less leveraged and safer is having the perverse consequence of destroying money balances,” he said. “It strengthens the deflationary forces in the world economy. That increases the risks of a double-dip recession in 2010.”

Referring to the debt-purge policy of US Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon in the early 1930s, he added: “The pressure on banks to de-risk and to de-leverage is the modern version of liquidationism: it is potentially just as dangerous.”

US banks are cutting lending by around 1pc a month. A similar process is occurring in the eurozone, where private sector credit has been contracting and M3 has been flat for almost a year.

Mr Congdon said IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn is wrong to argue that the history of financial crises shows that “speedy recovery” depends on “cleansing banks’ balance sheets of toxic assets”. “The message of all financial crises is that policy-makers’ priority must be to stop the quantity of money falling and, ideally, to get it rising again,” he said.

He predicted that the Federal Reserve and other central banks will be forced to engage in outright monetisation of government debt by next year, whatever they say now.

All I can say is WOW, Socialize the losses x 10 right???

 
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