September 17, 2009

Bits Bucket For September 17, 2009

Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum.




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530 Comments »

Comment by Rancher
2009-09-17 05:47:44

First? Wow, and on the second cup of coffee..Morning all!

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-17 05:54:18

I got asked what my five word speech would be at some RE web thing (if I was invited, I guess). I was thinking:

Don’t be

an FB.

What are some other HBB 5 word speeches to the RE world?

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 06:04:04

US Government

has failed.

Comment by mikey
2009-09-17 08:01:14

What are some other HBB 5 word speeches to the RE world?

Ben, how about this …

“You’re KILLING us in Arizona ?”

M&I reacts to Moody’s report
By Don Walker of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Sept. 16, 2009

Responding to recent warnings that debt-rating downgrades are possible for Marshall & Ilsley Corp., the company said Wednesday that its strategy for dealing with bad loans, along with other factors, will leave it well-positioned heading into next year.

On Tuesday, Moody’s Investors Service said M&I’s debt ratings were placed under review for potential downgrade. This month, Fitch Ratings put M&I on its “negative” rating watch. The ratings firms said they are concerned about potential losses from M&I’s real estate loan portfolio and its ability to maintain capital levels.

M&I lost $234 million in the second quarter as loans related to construction and development, especially in Arizona, continued to deteriorate. It was the third consecutive quarterly loss for Milwaukee’s M&I, which is the largest bank based in Wisconsin.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/59459062.html

Marine Bank parent receives OK for bankruptcy filing
By Paul Gores and Joe Taschler of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Sept. 16, 2009

CIB Marine is the holding company for the bank, which operates as Central Illinois Bank in Illinois and Marine Bank in Milwaukee, Indianapolis and Scottsdale, Ariz

http://www.jsonline.com/business/59462632.html

:)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:49:12

Green pools breed West Nile.

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 06:07:31

Don’t quit your day jobs.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 06:08:22

Renting can be your home too.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 06:09:56

Sorry: Renting can be your home. Can’t count.

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 13:41:07

or: Renting is also a home.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 16:06:25

Or: Squatting is also a home.

(Right, dude? ;) )

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 18:11:53

11 months and counting cuz’.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:13:59

Inhabit car; can’t drive house!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 21:38:13

11 months and counting cuz’.

We probl’y ARE cousins, here, is the creepy thing.
Except IIIII only have a 82% total visual recall, unlike you, Mr. Mutant.
:lol:

* Falls off chair laughing, all mutant like *

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:08:49

LOL! (rubs shiny dome for luck) Btw, I’m pretty sure you do have mutant powers, some of which you display publicly. I mean, you harvest AND eat geoduck for heavens sake!

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:22:37

Oh, I almost forgot, we talked to a nice young couple we’ve known since they were kids and they accepted our offer of “house sitting” for us in our squat once we move out if and when we close escrow.

This is a win/win. We mitigate against damage that might get blamed on us and get the potential for additional cashola from the bank for leaving the home in good condition. The yutes get to move out of the parents house and live closer to work in a much nicer neighborhood.

Cool no?

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 01:53:09

Very cool. :)

Is it me, or does your escrow seem like it’s taking a long time?

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-18 07:37:10

FOR EV ER. I’ll try to post on it today.

 
 
Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-17 13:22:40

“Never underestimate the stupidity of the general public.” (8 words, I know, but 3 are really short).

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Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-17 14:04:03

“General public stupidity, don’t underestimate.”

five words + added ambiguity

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 17:29:31

Owning is throwing money away.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-09-17 06:08:38

it is not different here

 
Comment by poormancometh
2009-09-17 06:10:18

“A great time to die”

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-17 06:11:09

You #$$%^ #%$**# (&^%*! scum.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 06:27:01

(OK maybe a bit harsh)

As an aside - anyone else notice all the new “get rich in real estate” advertising going on right now? Even the History Channel has a stupid 30-minute infomercial (in the mornings - right when I’m often on the treadmill and want to watch something interesting dangit).

Lots of them in the newspapers it seems as well.

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Comment by cereal
2009-09-17 08:43:42

Dear God, Let them fail

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-09-17 06:11:28

an oldie but goodie:

real estate always goes up!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 06:55:41

Housing doesn’t always go up.

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Comment by scdave
2009-09-17 08:36:25

Its okay, Suzanne researched this…

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Comment by Key Lime Toast
2009-09-17 12:52:08

American business model is broken.

 
Comment by patient renter
2009-09-17 14:54:04

I FINALLY saw that ad for the first time the other day. Hilarious :)

 
 
Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-17 13:24:28

“They’re not making any more land, but there’s still a crapload of it out there.”

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Comment by Dr.Strangelove
2009-09-17 06:14:30

“Don’t worry, Susanne researched this.”

Comment by rms
2009-09-17 07:17:09

+1 That line will be etched into housing history.

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Comment by scdave
2009-09-17 08:37:32

Oopps…You beat me yo it Dr…

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Comment by albakes
2009-09-18 12:55:34

Suzanne doesn’t work here anymore

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Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 06:25:15

Bank is not your friend.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 09:31:33

Don’t you mean

Realtor is not your friend

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Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:15:20

Lender is not your friend.

Oops, maybe I oughta rethink.

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Comment by evildoc
2009-09-17 06:27:55

WON’T be priced out forever

houses DON’T always go up

“Property Ladder” has cracked rungs.

(heck, evildoc is overdue for sleep after night shift at hospital. See ya later)

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 06:32:43

We won’t get fooled againnnn!!!!!

(cue Pete Townshend guitar slam)

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Comment by milkcrate
2009-09-17 12:01:57

Timmy, can you hear me?

 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 06:31:32

Realtors, Lawyers, Politicians.

Parasitic Scum.

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 13:43:19

Bravo.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:17:13

Commissioned loan origination is theft.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2009-09-17 06:34:10

Mortgage debt is house arrest.

Comment by Shizo
2009-09-17 07:58:20

Debt does not equal wealth.

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 14:27:13

+1

 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-09-17 06:40:44

Positive carry or future bankruptcy.

Comment by mikey
2009-09-17 12:09:36

“Oh please insult my Sellers”

:)

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Comment by darthrealtor
2009-09-17 06:42:03

There’s this bridge in Brooklyn.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 07:06:35

WINNER!

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:42:48

Concrete shoes, free for REALTORS.

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Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 21:03:58

Oh, YEAH!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 06:49:17

Don’t catch

a falling knife.

Comment by nycjoe
2009-09-17 07:20:33

Can’t sell ANYTHING for THAT.

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Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 08:50:03

Buy-gold-now.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-09-17 06:50:20

Take the 15 year mortgage.
Market prices/volume expand and contract.
The government can’t save you.
Do your own market research.
Ignore pressures to Buy Now.
Take profits early and often.
Never ever listen to experts.
Don’t trust the Fed.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 06:54:22

“Don’t trust the Fed.”

Five word version:

‘In Fed We Don’t Trust.”

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 07:04:31

and feed your parking meters

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 11:25:24

Queer Bear licked his paw.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 11:29:54

Oooooops! See alph, you always get me in trouble! Delete someone! Me no know how!

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 06:52:58

Subprime is contained

no longer.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-09-17 09:50:27

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! :-)

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Comment by ann gogh
2009-09-17 11:08:02

Don’t read any fine print!

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Comment by milkcrate
2009-09-17 12:04:33

I didn’t read the contract!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 13:47:07

Low payments now,

foreclosure later.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:39:06

Oops, our loans blew up.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:33:35

Who moved my home equity?

 
 
 
Comment by samk
2009-09-17 07:00:27

You can always refinance later!

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:41:25

House today, need not pay?

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Comment by oxide
2009-09-17 07:06:33

Pre-pop:

Get people INTO their homes.

Pick strawberries, mold candles, Profit!

Bring money, box of stupid.

I am detecting some “froth.”

You can always refinance later.

Condo: paint walls, dance club.

They aren’t making more land.

Don’t worry, subprime is contained.

Interest rates are historically low.

My house is worth what? :D

Post-pop:

Keep people in their homes.

Heads up! Falling knives above.

You just want your 6%.

Inventory, still in the shadows.

Condo: No, we like yards.

Interest rates are historically low.

Eight thousand? McMansions for everybody!

Whence all this “new” land?

Give me your tax money;
I want the new Escalade.

My house is worth WHAT? :cry:

————
Where’s the elusive taxmebootay? This is right up his alley.

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 01:56:21

Those are awesome, oxide. :)

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Comment by James
2009-09-17 07:17:15

Saving is not spending.

Comment by james
2009-09-17 08:38:12

and of course…

Spending is not saving

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:24:06

Housing is the

safest investment.

Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-17 13:28:46

Don’t take your countertops for granite.

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Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 13:35:48

Don’t take your countertops for granite.

This gets my vote!

 
Comment by wolfgirl
2009-09-17 13:54:27

Mine too.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:40:48

Granite countertops are highly radioactive.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:33:06

All real estate is local.

Comment by Watching the Carnage
2009-09-17 17:09:00

All Your House are Mine

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Comment by polly
2009-09-17 07:36:51

You will give it away.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 14:09:07

Hurry, this one won’t last.

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-17 08:14:22

Guns, ammo, food, toilet paper

Comment by james
2009-09-17 08:23:43

I’m low on toilet paper.

Would anyone care to trade a roll for a Ruger?

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Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-17 09:41:40

No but I’ll give you a whole jumbo pack for a pistol grip Mossberg 500 ;)

 
 
Comment by Carlos4
2009-09-17 08:48:23

What goes around comes around.

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Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-17 09:54:36

Conserve water, save the planet.

 
 
 
Comment by X-philly
2009-09-17 08:22:53

why
you
lie so much?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 08:57:11

Used home sellers always lie.

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Comment by jsocal
2009-09-17 08:41:34

Your property’s value may fall.

Shouldn’t there be a line in every RE contract and mortgage to that effect? Kind of like the disclaimer on a stock prospectus that they can’t guarantee that the investment will perform as advertised?

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 14:47:22

Housing is not an investment.

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Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2009-09-17 09:44:36

It is in the bag.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:48:30

The previous f*cked borrower’s corpse.

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Comment by mrktMaven
2009-09-17 10:04:09

Throw money away on RENT.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-09-17 10:15:59

Trust us. We don’t lie!

 
Comment by bink
2009-09-17 10:20:10

Housing is not an investment.

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 14:48:49

Yet again, Bink, brothers from different mothers. (see above)

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Comment by Walnuts
2009-09-17 10:48:56

Leverage. Buy. HELOC. Crash. Foreclose.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-17 10:54:15

Comparables are worth more…

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Comment by Stpn2me
2009-09-17 10:56:20

Ok, here’s a better one…

Why are you lowballing me?

 
Comment by mikey
2009-09-17 13:25:03

“The owner is being transfered”

(McDonald’s has an opening in Deadhorse, Alaska and is reviewing his application)

 
 
 
Comment by combotechie
2009-09-17 12:17:34

This time it is different.

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 13:39:43

Debt is the dream killer.

 
Comment by patient renter
2009-09-17 14:52:48

Subsidies increase prices. (2 words to spare!)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 16:19:28

Subsidies make housing go up.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:21:52

“subsidies increase prices”

And that’s also why the Baucus health bill should be opposed.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 16:59:39

We have a potential bidder

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:22:58

When you buy, pay cash.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:33:27

Fannie and Freddie go boom!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:34:59

Bankers always get their bonuses.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:36:49

Too-big has failed to succeed.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:42:13

Chinese drywall kills you slowly.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:45:09

Underwater houses make great kindling.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:47:51

A pox on your houses.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 20:05:02

Everyone wants to live here.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:36:57

Then why are you selling?

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:30:19

Ruin your finances with stucco.

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 20:59:05

We told you so, _______!

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 21:01:40

And–

Nyeanya nyah nye nyeeeeah nyeh.

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Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 21:09:20

Who laughs last laffs best.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:38:02

Stupid is as stupid does.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:39:44

You could even get stucco.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:42:09

Rolling loans gather no losses.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:44:42

The Fed has your backs.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 23:34:02

This sucker is going down!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 23:49:05

Debt men help no sales.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 23:50:14

The Ownership Society truly svcks.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 17:32:59

Please take away my house.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 05:53:33

Morning Rancher and everyone else!

 
Comment by waaahoo
2009-09-17 06:06:18

Stop taking your crazy pills!

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 07:04:20

I would tell sales=people to get de=programed . Than take a class in ethics .Than take a class in contract law and business fraud .

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 18:27:00

Remember the poster that use to say “Last one in turn out the
lights .”

 
 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-17 06:07:52

I mentioned I was draining and covering a pool in Lake Havasu City. Something happened with that could be of interest. This is a big place in a nice part of town. It’s been listed with UHS “team” for a while, and they told me it was a short sale. Of course, it’s always “got a lot of interest.”

So yesterday I get a call from a guy doing the finishing work on it, who tells me the utility showed up and cut the water off. “He said the new owner wants the water off, it must have sold,” he said.

Well, I suspect it sold all right. That’s what they call it when the lender takes it back. A new “owner” would want the water switched into their name, and I doubt the lender would want the pool covered if it had a sale pending.

This brings up a situation I see over and over; why are the short sales almost never successful? Is it because the lender feels they can get more for it post foreclosure? Are they tired of waiting? And it also brings out this curious animal we never hear much about; the asset manager. These specialized people are the ones who make these decisions and we don’t hear much about them. I’m gonna try and get one to do a HBB interview, even if it’s anonymous.

BTW, we’ve got a couple of interesting interviews in the works. A long time HBBer with a first hand account of the Thailand market and a southern California broker is going to give us the low down on his area.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 06:15:14

Interesting.

Off on a tangent - I though there were some pools (I thought all, but maybe not), that you’re not *supposed* to drain, because they count on the water pressure pushing out to offset the ground pressure pushing in, and thus if you drain it the sides may crack or the like, especially if there are heavy rains.

Could be wrong though - maybe it’s an urban legend. Just wondering.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-17 06:25:38

I’m glad you brought this up, cuz it may interest anyone looking at foreclosures with pools. The FHA specs, which are considered the best guidelines, say to leave 4 feet of water in the deep end, depending on the elevation. So we leave some water in it, but it gets pretty hot eveyday in LHC right now. I would guess it will evaporate in a few weeks. I was told there is a world of difference between fiberglass and concrete pools in this regard. Maybe someone can add to this here.

I work around many pools that have had nothing done, not even a lock on the gate. Some of these companies do a lot to preserve the values and some do almost nothing. (The same thing can be said about limiting liability, BTW. Such as removing hazardous materials like paint and raw garbage.)

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 06:30:27

Do you get any significant freezing in the winter there? If so, I know one problem can be pipes bursting if they’re not winterized, especially in sprinkler systems.

Lots of extra (usually unexpected) costs and headaches to manage foreclosure properties.

Eventually I may get one myself, but I plan to wait for several years still.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-17 06:43:02

It only freezes every couple of decades there, and I doubt it’s a hard freeze. Anything under 2000 feet n elevation doesn’t have to be winterized. One mansion I was in on the Colorado river had this awful smell. I guessed that the traps had dried out and odor was coming back up from the sewer. I suggested to the agent that he pour a little water in the traps. Of course, RV antifreeze will accomplish the same thing and won’t freeze either.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-17 07:07:06

LOL - funny you should mention that - I experienced that for the first time in my own house just a few weeks ago. A bad odor was coming from our guest bath, and I found it was from the trap that had dried up, since we hadn’t had guests in the past few months.

Never thought about it for empty homes though - presumably any RE agent worth their salt would know about that.

 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 06:35:01

I think if your water table is high, then an empty pool (even concrete) can ‘pop up’ out of the ground, like a boat. That’s probably why they say to keep some water in it as ballast in a sense. May not be as much of a problem in desert areas.

Didn’t a previous RE bubble in California provide kids the empty pools that led to the whole new style of skateboarding? (Half pipes etc) When life gives you lemons…

Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 08:27:56

Didn’t a previous RE bubble in California provide kids the empty pools that led to the whole new style of skateboarding? (Half pipes etc) When life gives you lemons…

Dogtown and Z-Boys (2001) is a documentary about the history of skateboarding. It won the Independent Spirit Award for Best Documentary Feature.

“Using a mix of film of the Zephyr skateboard team shot in the 1970s by Craig Stecyk and more recent interviews, the documentary tells the story of a group of teenage surfer/skateboarders and their influence on the history of skateboarding (and to a lesser extent surfing) culture. It is narrated by Sean Penn and directed by Stacy Peralta.”

-Wikipedia

cf:The Z-Boy story was also made into a feature film, Lords of Dogtown, in late 2005.

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Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-17 13:34:43

OT, but if you (the collective “you” of the HBB) ever get the chance to watch “Riding Giants”, a documentary about big-wave riding by Stacy Peralta, it’s absolutely riveting. Doesn’t matter if you’ve ever surfed or not; some of the footage in that movie is just mind-boggling. Not to mention they have a lot of great retro stuff going back to the 50’s. Ahh, Paradise Lost.

 
 
 
Comment by Rancher
2009-09-17 06:35:43

It’s called hydrostatic pressure. A gunnite pool
can be literally popped up out of the ground if
it is emptied and the surrounding ground is wet
or damp. The pool acts as a boat and floats up…

Comment by Skip
2009-09-17 07:27:41

I remember reading thats why they don’t bury people in the ground any more in New Orleans.

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-09-17 07:06:11

It depends on the water table. Here in Southeastern Virginia, if it rains hard and the water level is 1′ or 2′ low, you can see the liner starting to come in on the corners.

Concrete pools have plugs that will pop out in the bottom and let the ground water in, to try to prevent the whole thing from rising up.

 
Comment by charliegator in Gainesville, Florida
2009-09-17 09:07:56

It depends on the water table. Here in Gainesville, I’ve seen several pools pushed several feet out of the ground, when some idiot drained them for repair. If your going to do that, you need to pump surrounding water out of the ground.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:27:18

Where I came from (PA), the reason given for not draining pools was that groundwater would push the pool out of the ground. No groundwater left in Lake Havasu City, maybe…

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 06:24:15

My only question is: How lame is the banker’s party going to be with no power and an empty pool? There better be alot of alcohol there or I’m not coming.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 06:34:04

An empty pool can make for a great party actually. Use a generator for power. :cool:

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:15:14

“…empty pool…”

Great for skate board experts!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 08:32:04

An empty pool is a skateboarder’s dream.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-17 06:34:56

There’s apparently no joy in Muddville right now. When I first saw this pool and was asked to bid on it, I told them, it looks great and is a prime selling point. Let’s just put locks on the gates and ask the UHS to maintain it. Slowly over the next couple of months it starts to turn green. I guess the UHS couldn’t be bothered to have someone keep it up. And then I’m sure they are all surprised and unhappy when the bank “pulls the plug” on their listing.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 06:52:28

You’d think just dumping a cupful of bleach in it once a week would at least keep the water clear enough. Or is that too much to ask of a UHS?

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-09-17 07:08:32

There is more to it than that. If the PH levels get off, or it’s not vacumed, they will turn green even with chlorine. Once they are stable they don’t take that much work. But if there is no power at the house, then no pump. They cost a chunk of money to run.

I want one (with the prior owner taking the loss) when I buy a house. I want to automate the chemical part with a linux computer.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 07:11:30

I dumped half a gallon of diesel fuel in my neighbor’s (abandoned foreclosure complete with intermittent squatters) pool in an attempt at mosquito control.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 08:34:49

I dumped half a gallon of diesel fuel in my neighbor’s (abandoned foreclosure complete with intermittent squatters) pool

You forgot the part about the lit match

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 09:09:47

My amazing new Jeep. My new joy ( besides the hope of grandchildren some day ) is my new ( new to me anyway ) Jeep. It’s a black 1995 Jeep Gran Cherokee w/ 143K miles on it. Got it for $ 2K. It runs like a top and goes like the wind, and looks fantastic for its age. I’m feeling a lot more more optimistic about winter this year :)

 
Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-17 10:03:19

Let me know when it starts to break, I have gone through all of mine. A 97, 4.0. with 142k they do very well in the snow with good tires.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:14:13

Jeeps, Jeeps….man, what a pain. I had a jeep when I was in high-school and my first year of college. Stuff falls off those things ALL.THE. TIME.
But they will go anywhere, I will say that. They have an eager attitude. I drove mine up and down mountains and mine-shafts and along the ridges of far-off and unnamed wildernesses, (this is in Utarr) and also it was indeed a pretty decent vehicle for blizzards. Unless it was a super windy blizzard, because it turns out jeeps catch the wind just like a nice, giant high-center-or-gravity sail. I recall driving over to Vernal one time, about 60 miles. 60 miles on two wheels the whole d*amn time.
Many were the terrible words and noisy shrieks of terror on that exciting day, I can tell you.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:34:22

Many were the terrible words and noisy shrieks of terror on that exciting day, I can tell you.

From me AND the jeep.

 
 
Comment by Poolboy
2009-09-17 18:15:14

San Diego County Vector control will come put mosquito eating fish in any pool for free.I have called them several times for abandoned pools/houses in the uber rich colony of Santa Luz, North SD.Other Counties may as well.
Ps: Any questions about pools Ben , feel free to email me.

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Comment by WT Economist
2009-09-17 06:47:21

“Why are the short sales almost never successful?”

Whenever a property is transferred for less than the mortgage, it marks the end of “extend and pretend.” The bank has to admit the loss.

In addition to the individual property, there are two other factors to consider. How many short sales can the lender approve without admitting they are insolvent? And how much do the bank examiners make them write off regardless.

What about securitized loans? Until the losses are admitted, interest payments can be made to the lower traches in the poor. Once the losses are admitted, the lower traches are wiped out and only the higher tranches get paid.

Who typically holds lower tranches? The same organizations that service the loans! So they are paying some of that income stream to themselves, while the holders of AAA debt think all is fine, but in the end they’ll take a loss despite the lower tranches having gotten some money!

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-09-17 06:57:29

Disagreements between first and second lien holders.

FB refuses to sign new note promising to pay any balance.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 09:03:06

A story regarding short sales. My sister ( an architect ) and her husband were looking to buy a house on the lake we grew up on. The house that they were looking at in particular was a Yamasaki-designed classic from the 1960’s, built with spectacular views and architecture on a great lot with lots of frontage, but sadly in disrepair and in foreclosure. She is an expert at estimating how much it would take to redo/repair/refurbish such a complicated design to it’s original specs, and the bank wanted $ 700,000. Obviously, even including needing an entire new boat house/ docking system, seawall, etc., much less the building itself, they weren’t going to get anything close to that. My sister & brother-in-law had already sold their house for top dollar, even in this economy, so they were sitting pretty. They made a good offer to the bank with the hundreds of thousands of dollars of repairs taken off of the (even reasonable ) offer price, and waited, and waited, and waited. They even broke down every repair/restoration needed, with documentation and pricing, for the bank. After getting the runaround for 6 months, they decided to go ahead and build a new house on one of the last empty lots on the lake. Another couple of months have gone by, and ground has been broken on their new house. Lot is a lot narrower, but, if you want a house in this economy, a brandnew build is mighty nice, especially if your’e an architect. Her husband is also a licensed builder, but he’s not an active one. He’s an engineer. Lo and behold, the bank from the Yamasaki house came back 2 weeks ago and said, “Hey, we agree to take your offer”. The bank was told, “Sorry, we’ve moved on.” The house is still languishing. They’re happy they moved on. Dumb, dumb bank.

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Comment by packman
2009-09-17 09:38:47

Great story - thanks for that.

It’s things like this that make it apparent that there is *lots* more pain ahead still for the banks - even with the $2-3 Trillion or so they gotten in backstops and bailouts. The magnitude of this bubble was on the order of $7-8 Trillion, and the vast majority of that still has has no place to go, and must come out at some point.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-09-17 10:03:30

Great story, yes. But I would have liked the ending better if they had replied to the bank with “Sorry, the market has changed a lot in the last 6 months. That was our offer then, but our offer now is X minus $200K.”

And then go ahead with building their new house, but wait to see if they hear back from the bank in another 6 months. :-)

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 14:58:45

“there is *lots* more pain ahead still for the banks”

There is no pain that another 2-3 trillion in bailouts can’t cure.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:19:51

‘Whenever a property is transferred for less than the mortgage, it marks the end of “extend and pretend.”’

But aren’t the banks losing real wealth by holding on to vacant REO?

Comment by measton
2009-09-17 08:17:37

But aren’t the banks losing real wealth by holding on to vacant REO?

No the gov is basically paying them to keep the property off the market.

Alls good

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 15:00:23

+1
With mark to fantasy they don’t need realize the loss until it sells. I’m amazed that any REO is moving. This also speaks to Ben’s query regarding short sales above.

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 13:30:15

All they have to do is declare them 3 Level Assets.

“Mark-to-fantasy” is a proven business model. Not necessarily successful, but proven nonetheless!

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Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 02:07:34

I saw someone on CNBC the other day gloat about how the end of mark-to-market accounting **fixed** the credit crisis. For proof, he mentioned the looser credit markets and soaring stock market.

Perhaps I just have a more cynical nature, but this **pretending** stuff isn’t “fixing” anything but prices!

 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-09-17 07:29:34

I’m sure its because where as you can get a commissions for originating a loan, disposing of the toxic asset garners no bonuses.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 09:57:03

Isn’t this part of the chop and dice that happened with these loans? A lot of people own the loan. Doesn’t it sometimes boil down to they don’t know who the loan belongs to?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 13:31:48

Yes, but the FB has to take them to court to force this issue and find out for sure.

Not all mortgages were done this way. Just most.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-17 07:02:47

Hey Ben,

Back in 1968 Joe South had a song on the air called “Games People Play”. Today banks play a game called “Defer Recognizing the Losses”.

Does everyone know a bank can buy a non-performing loan from itself? And when it does that, the “new” bad loan is put on the books nice and fresh, like a carton of expired milk being poured into another carton with a “better and extended” use-by date?

If you knew a grocery store could just keep pouring sour milk into new cartons, and “calling” it “fresh” milk, would you buy your milk from that store?

If you knew a bank had hundreds of thousands of bad loans on its books, but was “calling” them good, would you do a lot of business with that bank? Would you invest in the bank?

The FDIC, the SEC, the Federal Reserve, and the banking system regulators all know this charade is being played today. They know that the reality is, if banks were forced to “recognize” the losses on their books as of today, most of them would be BANKRUPT.

Obviously, generally accepted accounting principles, and the normal rules of law and regulatory oversight, have been abandoned in this new game of “kick the can down the road”.

When we understand that massive fraud and deception is what currently passes for normal in the banking system, we can understand why no “turnaround” is remotely possible. Confidence in the system and its regulators is below zero.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:12:49

“This brings up a situation I see over and over; why are the short sales almost never successful? Is it because the lender feels they can get more for it post foreclosure?”

I don’t know what it costs the bank to process a foreclosure versus executing a short sale, but I assume processing is not free. So the obvious answer to your question is that the lender must believe they will be able to sell at some point after foreclosure for an amount that exceeds what they could have sold for in a short sale plus foreclosure processing costs. That belief appears to depend on home prices going back up over the foreseeable future by at least the difference between the short sale reservation price (SSRP) plus foreclosure processing costs (FPC) less current market value (CMV) — i.e., the expected future market value (EFMV) must satisfy:

Expected Appreciation = EFMV - CMV > (SSRP - CMV) + FPC.

Depending on how large are the foreclosure processing costs and how far under water the current market value is below the short sale reservation price, this could require lots of expected appreciation.

As long as banks remain irrationally exuberant, this inequality makes good sense.

Of course, my calculation omits the discount rate; perhaps banks have a very low discount rate in the current ZIRP, deflationary environment which takes little away from EFMV relative to the nominal expected future sale price?

Comment by polly
2009-09-17 08:28:21

Foreclosures are more expensive these days, at least in jurisdictions where you can demand that the entity trying to foreclose proove that they either own the loan or are acting on behalf the entity that owns the loan. Following a messed up paper trail means paying the lawyers (or their minions) a lot of money.

 
Comment by james
2009-09-17 08:34:06

Hey there PB,

I say bull crap.

They buy the house back at full value so they don’t have to book the loss, except when it suits them.

They can sit on this and write down the loss when they have some profits to offset. Or just sit on it for a long time no matter how unproductive it is from a social level.

Would guess it’s another varient on the broken window falacy. Banks sit on the losses and tell the regulators it helps the economy because the losses would hurt the credit situation.

The other motivation is the bank employees are clearly picking through the REO and looking for cherry properties. The WellsFargo case is a “don’t get caught” warning but still expect off market transactions to abbound. Not to mention how many execs are buying from the bank in bulk using REIT holding companies. Just another way the shell organizations employes will enrich themselves.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 08:58:59

“Just another way the shell organizations employes will enrich themselves.”

But doesn’t real estate have to go up again for this to work out in their favor?

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-09-17 09:29:11

That’s when the run-away inflation kicks in.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 02:09:58

That certainly seems to be what everyone is thinking, PTM.

 
 
Comment by james
2009-09-17 09:38:25

Bear,

No, if the transactions aren’t on the open market you can do quite well. I suspect the lady who was fired from WF was the little fish in so many ways. The big criminals, big time executives, are getting away with stuff.

Expect there is a “Friends of Mozzilo” type arangement where a property is valued by the bank as very low due to massive damage/termites/vandalism. Then it gets moved to an executive or other such thing at a fraction of the value.

Happened in the last bust as well. Insiders will go after property this way. These are the people that are doing the real stealing vs the idiot who had some summer parties. Though it is good she was busted.

Really just don’t expect anyone is doing anything about conflicts of interest in many of these cases. Probably some minor amount of arms length. Like the property is transfered to a child/relative/spouse with different last name type of deal. Problem with organizations that have become shells like the banks. They are zombies and the employees just start thinking of how to cash in. No drive from the top to think long term about the implications of the fraud and protect the customers. Raid what you can before it all falls apart.

Anyhow, O, Bush, congress have been funding this for a while. No reason for them to stop now.

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Comment by CantRememberMyOldName
2009-09-17 10:09:35

I’ve heard that the Wells Fargo code of ethics prohibits employees from buying their foreclosures. I was also informed by a close relative that this also applies to their family.

 
Comment by james
2009-09-17 10:57:47

Well, thank god they have a code of ethics. I was worried for a minute there.

 
Comment by Mike in Bend
2009-09-17 12:28:58

Apparantly UHS have the right to list a property at a certain price that is not relevant to the real “bank would accept” price in a short sale. (205k, in a house we sold in 06 for 350k)? There is little chance that a bank will take anywhere near 205k, maybe it would set a new comp. UHS are trying to generate offers, but come on when is the price the price, and how is it that buyers have to twist in the wind long enough to say forget it and move on, even when the bank is planning on taking the offer?

If they just pre-negotiated the price with the lenders, then short sales would go through, and quickly, but I suspect alterior motives on the bank’s part, so getting offers accepted on a SS, that is a tough nut to crack. To have them admit the house is worth less than the loan could be problematic, for the accounting methods mentioned above (not realizing the loss of value),

Could it be a method to keep owners holding the bag a bit longer and forestalling an auction and the repossesion and sale to the bank for the loan amount? Maybe they can generate fees by keeping a seller hopeful. I know our UHS said short sales were good for sellers if they can get the bank to agree, it’s not as bad a hit to their credit.

we cant shortsale our house as we have the funds to make the sale a cash sale. For some reason, we would have to pre-pay down the mortgage balance rather than bring cash to the table, if we get a low ball offer that would get us out of our property but leave us needing to pay something additional to the bank to pay off the loan. I have no idea why this is necessary, not allowing us to bring cash to the table? Of course this is just what our UHS listing agent told us; no short sales without financial hardship (makes sense), no bringing cash to the table(huh), and that BofA is the worst bank when it comes to getting an answer on an offer on a price set by the UHS, which has no bearing on the actual price a bank might take, so a false price in my eyes. also she told us that local lenders are better to deal with than national(also makes sense, as one payed off loan, or partially paid off loan in the case of a short sale would add more significantly to their deposits).

Also, why is a short sale listing allowed, any other industries where the short sale “price” is not the real price? Wouldn’t real-a-tor negotiation with bank prior to listing a falsly low price be more realistic?

 
Comment by james
2009-09-17 13:33:00

I would guess that the zombies have a hard time functioning at all.

I mean if WE are aware the banks are kaput, imagine what its like maintaining discipline inside one of these beasts. The employees are even more aware of what the heck is going down and you can bet the night guard is talking to the janitor talking to the loan officer about how their CRE portfolio is looking and what to do.

Again, there are probably a substantial but not gigantic population of executives making a killing on internal sales and bulk sales.

The rest of the people, more of us mere mortal non-hedge funde executive types, are probably walking around dealing with the uncertainty and waiting for the plug to be pulled. Randomly it would seem. Maybe there will be a merger. Maybe a bailout. Maybe there will be charges pressed. So what do you do? Agonize and stress or do you bail the hell out?

Expect that complicates the situation for the SS. They may not have good comps. Could be in denial. May want to see if they can get the loan to cure. Maybe they are trying to work on a modification. Maybe they are selling the loan off to scratch and dent guys. Even better, they might have to negotiate with the bond holders when they are working as a servicer. Possibly they can’t even locate the investors.

I have a feeling that when the checks don’t show up and the loan completely defaults, it gets their attention more than a guy that is current and navigating a short sale as well. You might be telling them “I’m going to default” and they don’t care about that because they have 10 guys in front of you in default. 1/5 of them are fighting with you over documentation. You are also getting gief from a bunch of thugs like ACORN and dealing with all sorts of last minute legislation in places like Cali. Not to mention if you throw something like local yahoo fines for various upkeep infractions, HOA stuff.

That would be my guess.

 
Comment by Mike in Bend
2009-09-17 14:06:39

Right on James!
thanks for a more thorough and comprehensive view than ANY (have they been taught as short shrift “specialists”)UHS. They just BS their way around the fallacy of the short sale in their short sighted ways (make an offer, make an offer, already!) about a price that may or not be accepted by and by by the bank.
bye bye

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 15:00:49

That was good james. Your posts today have been excellent and informative. In fact, I learned a lot today from everyone here. :)

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 15:10:11

I learned a lot today from everyone here.

Hey ATE, stop searching for Oly posts on the Comment Search, you’re hogging all the bandwidth.

(Just kidding!)

;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:36:16

Well, thank god they have a code of ethics. I was worried for a minute there.

Yeah, me too.
*dabs moist sweat off brow *

…Those A*ss*holes! Those utte*r F**cking A**HOLES!!

 
 
 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 08:17:30

…the asset manager. These specialized people are the ones who make these decisions and we don’t hear much about them. I’m gonna try and get one to do a HBB interview, even if it’s anonymous.

I wanna ask her what it’s like to party in a $12M house that her bank owns.

Comment by rfw
2009-09-17 12:47:36

Lavi d - it went from 12 million to 21 overnight.

The bank-owned Malibu house allegedly used by a Wells Fargo executive to entertain family and friends appeared on the Multiple Listing Service late Friday, listed for sale at $21.5 million.

Listing details show the home’s ownership when it was transferred in May and list the price then as $12 million.

Built in 1990, the two-story beachfront house has three bedrooms and four bathrooms in about 3,800 square feet of living space and sits on a 8,708-square-foot lot. Beyond the ocean and white-water views and sandy beach practically out the back door, the Malibu Colony house has fireplaces in the living room and master bedroom, central air conditioning and carpeted and hardwood floors. There is a bar, a breakfast bar, a dining area, a gym, a loft and covered and open-air patio areas. The gated community has 24-hour-a-day guard service.

Wells Fargo has fired the executive accused of using the house. Details are in the story at latimes.com.

Chad Rogers of Hilton & Hyland, Beverly Hills, has the listing.

Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 13:38:22

The bank-owned Malibu house allegedly used by a Wells Fargo executive to entertain family and friends appeared on the Multiple Listing Service late Friday, listed for sale at $21.5 million.

Thanks for the update!

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Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 21:49:36

It was Nancy Heller’s west coast house IIRC. Absolutely first-rate woodwork and design.

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Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 08:51:38

Cool, Ben. I’m looking forward to reading those.

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 15:11:38

The word around Palmcaster is that successful short sales are invariably family transfers. This makes sense because the knife catch in question is more likely to give the bank something to work with so that mama, papa, prima, or yerno can continue to live in the same locale. It also gives the comfort of an unrealized loss to the original FB. This happened all over in the 90s downturn as well.

 
 
Comment by darthrealtor
2009-09-17 06:33:42

Chattin’ with a wife the other day and was discussing an interesting little tidbit about the ole’ HB that not many folks talk about.

With all the fees and such clearly the banks were rolling in the dough selling the coolaid and then dumping the mortgages into MBS’s and pawning them off on Fannie and Freddie.

Now an interesting side effect of all this record level of mortgage origination is that at this point in time banks and fannie/freddie should be rolling in all that interest money since these are fresh mortgages that are producing the highest interest payments (as opposed to the amount going to principal in the property). Therefore banks should now be at the peak of profitability regarding all their mortgage origination. Well we all know that’s not true at all so the question begs: If the banks and Fannie/Freddie are bleeding like stuck pigs now what will happen when these mortgages get paid off even further?

Maybe I’m don’t fully understand how the banks keep mortgages on their books for their lifespans and what they consider ‘profit’ but something smells (even more) rotten to me.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 07:11:49

…Therefore banks should now be at the peak of profitability regarding all their mortgage origination. Well we all know that’s not true at all …

Recent news articles say otherwise - many banks actually are quite rolling in dough right now - largely due to the mortgage origination fees you mention.

Yeah many small banks are failing right now, but that’s because they don’t have the good fortune to have the Fed or U.S. Treasury come knocking on their door - only the FDIC.

Comment by darthrealtor
2009-09-17 07:31:05

If you removed all the Fed lifelines and the new mark-to-fantasy rules that banks can now employ, then our entire finacial system would be sunk. Those origination fees are negligble now.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 07:59:15

Perhaps, but not so much a drop in the bucket as you might think. (Perhaps I should have said “partly”, instead of “largely”).

1Q09 mortgage origination fees at the 9 biggest banks were $4.5 billion, for instance. Add that to the fees for loan reworks, foreclosures, etc. - all on top of the other growing overdraft and credit card fees which are north of $50B per year now. There’s a lot of padding that can be used to soak up the losses, if the losses are stretched out enough over time.

To your original question end question:

“Maybe I’m don’t fully understand how the banks keep mortgages on their books for their lifespans and what they consider ‘profit’ but something smells (even more) rotten to me.”

Not sure if you’ve read but the Fed is in the process of purchasing $1.45 Trillion of these right now, and therefore they are moving off the banks’ books and onto the general populace’s books, in the form of inflation (and/or “lack of deflation”).

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Comment by darthrealtor
2009-09-17 10:27:57

<>

Yup. This in effect makes the Fed the official US landlord and at the same time keeps artifically low….while also priming the pump for inflation.

My original point is that, no matter what, the older a mortgage is, the less money it makes for the holder (more principal, less interest) hence less income for the banks.

I’d love to get a crack at Fannie’s excel spreadsheets. They’d make for some REAL fun data extrapolation.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 13:39:40

Exactly. Take away their Enron style accounting, and they’re completely broke.

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Comment by measton
2009-09-17 08:33:07

Yeah many small banks are failing right now, but that’s because they don’t have the good fortune to have the Fed or U.S. Treasury come knocking on their door - only the FDIC.

And don’t forget that putting the small and medium size banks out of business increases the market share for too big to fail and thus cash flow. I’m sure this is part of the game plan.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 08:43:08

And don’t forget that putting the small and medium size banks out of business increases the market share for too big to fail and thus cash flow. I’m sure this is part of the game plan.

It is the very purpose of the Fed’s existence.

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Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-09-17 07:16:30

“There is a sucker born every minute?”

I have friends that are buying. I point out to them the facts, but in their mind they’d rather own something then rent so they can customize it. Plus renting is unstable.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 13:48:31

The general rule is that if you can buy for less than you can rent similar sqft and amenities (you must compare both), than you should do so.

Just not in the current market.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:18:05

It can’t hurt the banks to be able to borrow from the Fed at 0 percent or so and loan money at at 4 pct plus. Too bad households can’t borrow at 0 percent directly from the Treasury without the Fed acting as intermediate profit guarantor for the so-called private banks.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 07:51:05

Are you implying that the whole financial system is a scam loaded in megabank’s favor?

Comment by David
2009-09-17 08:45:01

That would be my conclusion. Heck most of us on this board are more creditworthy then MegaBank ™!

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 07:26:28

IMHO ,The banks will transfer these loans to some other long term holder
It use to be that the lending world relied on loans changing over ever 7 to 10 years . If they got a loan that the party went the whole 30 years
without refinancing or moving ,that loan could be a loser ,if interest rates go up . This is why they came up with adjustable loan in the first place . The secondary market didn’t want to tie up money for 30 years at a fixed rate and investors were refusing to buy fixed rates (happened in the early 80’s). This dried up the credit markets at the time and created a tight money market .

Of course these low rate fixed loans could be losers for Government
backed loans if Interest rates go up . Other Countries are more into
giving adjustable loans that tie to the cost of funds or some index
or they are reassessed every so many years .

A low fixed rate is a real bargain if you stay long term and pay off the loan ,while interest rates go up . Why people went for these
toxic adjustable loans during the boom can only be explained by the fact that the borrowers were short term leveraging without any skin in the game .

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 07:32:09

Let me add . The Lenders use to be satisfied with a 2 to 2.50 yield on their money back in the old days . In other words ,if the banks costs were 3% for funds ,they would like to make about 5.50 % interest on the loan while they were holding it .In recent years those yields had to be higher ,but with this selling loans off before they even became seasoned loans ,and being able to leverage they could make major short term money ,especially on loan fees .

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 07:45:50

Let me add . In the early 80’s my boss called me in one day and told me they had a problem with the secondary market not wanting to buy the loans anymore . My boss wanted to know if
I had any ideas on a loan that might satisfy the secondary market
as well as the customer . I went home that night and designed 3 loans and submitted it to my boss the following day . The company adopted one of those loans and other companies followed suite .
About 5 years later they got rid of that loan because it was to well balance (in my humble opinion ).

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-17 11:00:06

Just out of curiosity, what were the terms of the loan you designed? If you’re allowed to divulge the information.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 11:25:18

Good terms for the consumer in the final analysis for longer term at the time .Not as favorable for the consumer for the first year . It would not of been a good loan for a short term investor ,thats for sure ,but good for a longer term
homeowner at the time . That is about all I can say I think .

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-09-17 11:35:13

“That is about all I can say I think .”

If you designed it in the early ’80s, your employer published the terms broadly (they would have to if they are writing the loans), and all the other lenders copied your employer with similar products, then how the heck could it possibly be considered confidential information today???

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 13:44:41

I kinda forgot all the terms ,its in one of my boxes . I was just trying to solve a problem at the time at the request of my boss
at the time . I could go dig it out ,but its in a box that is under about 5 other boxes . When I say that is about all I can say,I’m saying I’m to lazy to go into more detail . I could tell you about other inventions I came up with also ,but I don’t want to go into
what looks like patting myself on the back . It doesn’t matter anyway because it was so many years ago and II haven’t been in the industry for years . The industry is different today , but back in those days they use to underwrite loans and pay close attention to appraisals .

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 02:46:24

Wiz,

Well stated regarding the low rates pushing people into ARMs because lenders don’t want the risk of a fixed rate in a low rate environment.

ARMs transfer interest rate risk from the lender to the borrower.

 
 
 
Comment by darthrealtor
2009-09-17 07:51:53

I’ve heard that Fannie/Freddie now holds 80% of the non-jumbo loans in the US. Is this true?

I was in Toronto recently and was curious how our friends up north have financed their bubble. It’s very interesting how they don’t have such things as 15 or 30 year fixed rate mortgages….their loans have interest rate modifications every 5-10 years. I wonder how these differences in long term financing from country to country will begin to affect global currency markets after the bubble completely bursts.

Comment by Al
2009-09-17 09:00:02

In Canada, most of the new mortgages have a 5 year term or less, but with 35 year amortizations. VRMs are the most popular. No need to worry about interest rate hikes, not at all.

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Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 09:06:31

What is a VRM. Thanks.

 
Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 09:07:45

Sorry, I should have elucidated my question. if VRM stands for variable rate mortgage, then I don’t see how there would be no need to worry about interest rate hikes. Thanks.

 
Comment by Al
2009-09-17 11:15:10

I put an earlier post with a link that seems to have gotten delayed/eaten. Didn’t hit the sarcasm right on the interest rate comment. Between the short terms on the mortgages and the tendency for VRM, the Canadian market is in for a nasty hit if interest rates rise. Long amortizations means very little equity build as well. Even with a ‘conservative’ mortgage (5 year fixed) interest rate sensitivity is still high.

 
 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 07:33:18

I think it works basically like this..

Say a bank has $100K to lend. It lends that entire amount to several different people at 10% interest.

10% interest is good income on $100K, ($10,000) but holding all those loans is VERY risky. The bank will take the entire hit if, say, a $20K loan defaults. That’s a huge loss. It’s twice as much as that 10% interest income they planned on earning ($10K).

So, the reduce their risk, the bank bundles the $100K in loans together into a security, and offers that security for sale, at an interest rate of 9%.

Many investors buy the entire security.. they get 9% return on whatever amount of the $100K they buy.
The banks still collects 10% but gets to keep only 1% (10%-9%=1%).

Now the bank is earning 1% on their money, but that original $100K is back because that’s what investors paid for the security. Investors “repaid” the loaned money to the bank.
——–

The bank again lends out that $100K @ 10% to other people, creates another security, sells that to more investors @ 9% return, and takes only 1% for themselves.

Now the bank is earning 1% on the first security, plus 1% on the second security, and has that $100K back in their vault, ready and waiting to be lent again.
—–
If the bank repeatedly lends that same $100K, creating securities and selling the securities to investors, each time they do it they earn an additional 1% in interest.

If they do it ten times (lend and issue 10 securities) and stop, their interest income on that original $100K is 10% (1% for each of the ten securities issued) or $10,000 and they still have the original $100K in cash in their vault.

That bank is not taking any risk but it’s making 10% on money it has in it’s pocket. The investors are taking all the risk, although the risk to them is thinly diluted, and a single loan default is not gonna bust anyone..
—-

The only catch for the bank is they have to write GOOD loans.. otherwise loans will default, investors take a loss, and are not gonna want to buy the securities from that bank ever again..

If the bank gets a bad reputation and no investors buy securities, the bank can lend that $100K only once, and it’s stuck with the loans it wrote (taking ALL the risk of default themselves).
And since it has no more money it cannot lend any more money.. so the bank is dead in the water. Nobody can borrow from that bank.
Credit Crunch. Business failure.. unemployment.. etc.
—-

And that’s what happened. Lots of BAD mortgage loans were written by LOTS of banks. Investors got burned and aren’t buying MBS.

Banks would all be dead in the water, except..
Enter the govt. They will stand in for the “investors” and buy the banks’ securities… They don’t want to see the financial system grind to a halt.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 08:10:37

Add to that ,the bank might keep .25 more likely ,or make money on the servicing of the loan after it’s sold at .25% a loan or lower .

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 08:25:21

sure.. lots could be added to it.. lots and lots of fingers in the pie.. But i think the basic idea is covered. Banks need someone to buy their securities, or the flow of money and credit stalls, and the whole system teeters on the brink.

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Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 02:52:09

But the banks get their money back early via refis and sales. Also, they get more money to lend from the monthly payments that come in. Additionally, they can get extra capital with more deposits and bond sales, etc.

There are lots of ways for banks to get money to lend without having to sell off all their inventory.

Besides…I think it’s a GOOD thing if credit is somewhat restricted. That way, lenders make better decisions regarding underwriting and allocation of capital.

 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-09-17 08:38:22

This is a very good explanation of why I think the banks have become very much MORE risk averse during the bubble, all evidence to the contrary. They have forgotten how to assess the riskiness of a loan because they haven’t had to hold loans on their books and stopped caring about anything but hitting the numbers that the investment bankers demanded to include the loan in the securitization bundles. And the investment bankers were paying math geniuses big bucks to prove that 99.99% of any pool of loans, no matter how bad they were individually (so why bother to spend all that money actually figuring out how good or bad they were) could be rated triple A. Meaning the investment bankers had no standards at all, but used the performance of well underwritten loans from bygone years to prove it.

Of course, it worked even with crummy loans as long as prices kept going up and the refinance every few years thing worked….

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 10:06:36

Once you know how to write a good loan, it’s not easy to forget it.
If you are a bank, what proves to you a loan is good? You make money off it. It’s all about making money.

If investors buy your loans, you make money, and that’s all you want. If investors scream and beg for more of your loans, you must be doing something right. They are throwing money at you.

But there comes a point where you, a banker, gotta wonder WTF is going on? You look around and see that real estate is going up and up and up. That explains why investors are so anxious to buy your MBS.

Who are you to argue? You’re making money hand over fist. Are you gonna tell investors “No more! Home prices cannot rise forever! I don’t care if Susanne researched this or not! We’re cutting you off.”

Well, you could do that as an altruistic member of the financial world (snicker) but other banks and lenders and investors are not gonna stop. They don’t see it coming or they don’t care. They are going forward with or without you.
———-

You might stop in time to protect yourself.. and some banks did just that. But since most kept going, and different aspects of the system force interdependency, even the players that stopped (or didn’t participate) were put at extreme risk.

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Comment by polly
2009-09-17 13:15:46

OK, about 90% of that has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. However, I can address the idea that once a banker knows how to make a good loan, they won’t forget how to do it. People age and retire. People move to other jobs. People good at doing regular work get promoted and end up managing their old groups - possibly badly. And, most importantly, banks force the people who used to know how to make good loans into automatic paper pushers who are required to process loans so quickly they don’t have time to do a good job.

Or, even more likely, they fired the people who knew something about taxes and money because they wanted to be paid professional salaries and maintain a certain level of ethics and hired a bunch of people who were so stunned at the amount of money they could make looking up FICO scores and filling out some basic paperwork, that they didn’t question their good fortune in being plucked up from the ranks of used car salesmen and house cleaners.

And the banks don’t have the old people who really knew how to make good loans on staff anymore. And if they did, they couldn’t go back to those standards because they require a knowledge of the community and neighbors that was often acquired by gossip at the teller’s window as well as an in depth analysis of the borrower’s financial situation. Besides, if they tried, they would reduce their productivity numbers by the greatest amount ever seen and not get their bonuses.

So don’t try to pretend the banks or mortgage brokers that originated the toxic loans can start doing loans the way loans used to be made. They don’t have the people. They can’t take the time. They are stuck making loans that can be sold to the government. A few old fashioned local banks can still do it the old way, but those places can’t make up the volume and they don’t want to.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 14:14:51

Good post polly .Back in the old days ,banks did not make as much of a profit as they ended up making in this last boom.
Big banks made money on volume,rather than a killing on one deal .Often times the loans had to be seasoned for a while before they were sold . Making good loans were also the objective ,and the loan underwriters were darn good .Underwriters could get fired if they made risky loans in fact .
It was just a total different world than this corruption that took over .

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 14:26:22

i must have misread you..
It seems like you began by saying banks were more risk averse during the bubble, but then went on to explain how banks stopped caring about risk, and didn’t even know how to assess risk… which made no sense to me.

Maybe we have different definitions for certain words.
averse .. aversion.. dislike.. have distaste for.

Banks would not only need to be aware of risk, but also try to avoid that risk if they were to be viewed as “risk averse”.

 
Comment by BellevueRenter
2009-09-17 18:35:50

Polly, your last posted amazed me. So much so, I came out of a 4 year lurk-mode. I am that old banker of which you so eloquently spoke. I was head of real estate of a bank which purchased 2 failed S&Ls in 1990. Those were the days - foreclosures, deeds in lieu of - paying off 1st mortgage holders - fighting with servicers - but it always, always paid off to be kind to the unfortunate borrowers who were losing their houses. When a new President came aboard in 1995, and pressured me to triple production and compete directly with the mortgage companies, I quit and became a ‘hard-money lender’ much like az-lender.
Thanks for your post.

 
 
 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 08:46:32

I think it works basically like this..

Excellent. Thank you.

 
Comment by james
2009-09-17 08:48:33

Where this breaks down of course is the investors are getting bailed out by the treasury. Hence the FAN/FRE situation.

The FHA situation is that organization is commiting suicide too.

They are supposed to insure the losses. Again getting thrown on the treasury.

Finally, the bank realized it got away with all this madness for a long time. Perhaps since the money flows back in all the time it doesn’t really need to have the 100K. So, they decided they only really need 10K and they could keep reselling this as long as at the end of the day nobody asked for their 100K. Things were looking pretty grim for a while so the decided that holding on to 10K was too much of a savings glut, so they said well maybe 3K was more appropriate.

Some bankers in Europe got mad that American bankers were gettting all the good returns. So they decided that 3K was just crazy. They said all they needed was 2.5K.

Everything was all good. Then, like a crazy man, I decided I needed cash for a weekend in Vegas. Wanted to throw some big bucks around. So, I went to the bank and asked for my 5K as my bookie and I had a date on Friday nite.

Then it all went to hell…. Hence the bubble bursting is my fault. I blame my weaknesses with gambling, drinking and leveraged financial instruments. Heck, how was I supposed to know that derivatives weren’t some kind of football bet. I was looking a C to cover +15 and thought, the Bears are going to put up at least that against the Pack! Seemed like the best thing to happen to my retirement plan, thought I was betting football.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 15:20:32

well, ya.. but the idea is the current situation is only temporary.

The GSE’s and Fed are buying inordinate amounts only because private investors and institutions are afraid to buy (without a govt guarantee).

If troubled banks are protected and supported, allowed leeway and enough time, they can write down all those bad assets while originating plenty of good quality loans, and the banking system will recover.

Investors will perceive less risk, regain faith in the mortgage market, and the Fed can ease off on it’s support and sell off the securities it’s been buying.

Banks will sell their REOs at a discount at some point, but they must be healthy enough to withstand whatever losses would be realized.

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Comment by james
2009-09-17 18:02:12

No, the debt has grown so large that incomes do not support the debt without the creation of base currency, aka actual physical dollars. Even then, actual dollars will get sucked out of the country to pay for oil or goods.

Esentially this is debt exhaustion.

We might get away from it but will take a lot of time. A few bad policies by O and company and we go all Weimar.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 20:52:01

No matter which way we go it will take a lot of time. A lot of damage was done. There is no quick fix.

As far as I can determine, the Weimar Republic didn’t suffer a housing bubble. Actually, there is not even the remotest similarity between the problems Germany faced then and those we face now. Nothing.

Why people are so quick to trot out the “Weimar” bogeyman is a mystery to me.
I suspect it was originally used to frighten people during the course of delivering a sales pitch to buy gold, but has since become a fad.

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:39:33

Hmmm, maybe Weimar is trotted out because it was another case of too much debt for the economy to pay. Their solution is the same as ours, print currency. There are 2 main differences though, our debt continues to mount year over year, and our currency is just another fiat in a sea of fiats, albeit the reserve of such. Time will tell joey.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 09:01:08

“They will stand in for the “investors” and buy the banks’ securities…”

Knowing this, banks were free to take high-risk, even nonsensical gambles that would enrich themselves so long as real estate kept going up, with the understanding that the gubmint was offering them free housing bust insurance.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 09:21:43

We’re all free to take high risks if we want to. But there are consequences if we lose. Place your bet. Spin the wheel…

Don”t ignore the fact that banks ruined their companies and reputations by writing bad loans. And many got stuck with too many bad loans they themselves wrote.

While just enough were “saved” to avoid a financial meltdown, many will never recover or are already going under because of it. The whole system was put at risk.

Now, should the govt allow them all to fail or not? Same old question.. but govt won’t allow the banking system to fail, so no need to reply with the same old answers.

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Comment by CA renter
2009-09-18 03:02:38

Exactly what were those bad consequences of which you speak, Joey?

It seems to me that the vast majority of people who were fraudulently making money during the bubble have quitely sauntered off into the darkness, many of them coming back with their own vulture funds so they can profit from the carnage they created.

IMHO, you are 100% wrong about the govt having to bail out the banks the way they did.

If the banks want the profits, then they have to take the losses. The govt is standing in for them now, anyway. Best to clear off the table, **prosecute and fine treble damages** all those who participated in the fraud during the bubble. Let the banks be repopulated with new blood and new money from those of who have been sitting on cash — earning artificially low interest rates for far too long now.

Time for some **real** change!

 
 
 
Comment by Al
2009-09-17 09:05:28

The only thing I’d disagree with is that a bank is dead in the water if they can’t sell the loans. There is the old practice of making a loan and hold it to maturity, then lend the money again. Loan volumes can increase by increasing their capital base. Of course this business model doesn’t generate the profits required for insane executive bonuses, so not worth considering.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 09:30:08

It was a simplified example, only to point out how things work as far as securities.

How does a bank increase it’s capital base? It can run TV ads.. “Please deposit your money with us.”

It’s not as if banks lend every penny they have out and rely only on selling securities to get it back. They do have lots of other things cooking.. all sorts of things. And those things make money, and increase or replenish their capital. A well managed bank is diversified. It is always well capitalized.

But mortgages are big money.. screw up there and you’re asking for big problems.

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:46:12

“How does a bank increase it’s capital base?” By paying an interest rate that hasn’t been artificially suppressed, and charging that +2% in a market without interest rate subsidies?

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:43:48

The trouble with banks is, their money is … BORROWED!

Ha ha.

Be sensible, borrow only from a principal whose money is his/her own, and who will keep the note.

I don’t agree that keeping whole mortgage notes is very risky. The value should be supported by the collateral. I have pointed out before that my 15-year, 9% notes with 80% LTV are unlikely to go underwater, because the amortization is fairly fast. I don’t give two hoots for the borrower’s credit record, only my personal evaluation of the property. My market (mobile homes with the underlying lot) has seized up a little bit, FINALLY, but I still think I could sell any foreclosed property for MOST of the money owed, if I had any FC’s. As y’all know, none of my clients is in default, so I have yet to test this proposition post-pop (all my repo’s were back in 2003).

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 20:17:06

I wish you continued good luck, if luck has anything to do with it.

Sure a bank’s money is borrowed. A bank works for those it borrowed the money from. It’s job is to grow depositor’s money and return a percentage. Banks put people’s money to work.

People might lend it out themselves, but that takes effort and requires time more profitably spent at one’s trade or profession, and lending is a specialty best left to people in that profession.
—-

..Be sensible, borrow only from a principal whose money is his/her own, and who will keep the note.

I am curious why you’d recommend that. What difference does a lender’s ownership of the money make to the borrower?
And how would your selling your notes negatively affect the people who borrowed from you?

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Comment by evildoc
2009-09-17 06:35:16

OMG. It Never Ends.

Frakkin NY Times Again, with “erudite” article on St Joseph’s Statues to help sell houses.

… sigh…

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/17/nyregion/17towns.html?em

regards

evildoc

Comment by nycjoe
2009-09-17 07:28:00

I guess a fool-proof chump magnet WOULD be a better strategy than lowering the price!

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 07:33:22

Yeah. The St Joseph statues worked so well last year.

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-09-17 08:12:58

Man those were so funny. Every time I’d make a troll post selling them on craigslist I’d get flagged pretty quickly.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 08:44:59

https://post.craigslist.org/manage/1378912368/z3zw9

Here is one that is being re-cycled.

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 09:12:29

I accidentally put the edit/delete link here. You guys feel free to edit the ad or put pictures with it. Go ahead and get creative!

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Comment by Al
2009-09-17 09:15:17

“Dear God, please don’t worry about the hungry, or world peace, or my brother-in-law’s cancer. Please sell my house. Amen.”

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 10:34:03

The nutty FBs got it all wrong..

Saint Joseph (husband of Mary) is the patron saint of workers and/or the Protector of the Church.
Joseph of Arimathea - patron saint of funeral directors, tinsmiths
Joseph of Cupertino - air travelers, aviators, astronauts, test takers

I don’t see any related to sales, except “John of God” .. patron saint of hospital workers, nurses, booksellers

And how about homes? no mention of homes.. except:
Saint Anne - equestrians, stablemen, French-Canadian voyageurs, Cabinet makers, homemakers
—-

maybe they should be burying statues of “Anthony the Abbot”.. patron to basket-makers and gravediggers.

Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:46:58

Maybe it’s because Mary’s husband Joe was a carpenter, and house-flippers may be fixer-uppers. ???

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 19:30:44

..flippers wouldn’t know which end of a hammer..

I suppose you’re right. He did work with his hands.

Joseph was a “τεκτων”; traditionally the word has been taken to mean “carpenter”, though the Greek term is much less specific. It cannot be translated narrowly; it evokes an artisan with wood in general, or an artisan in iron or stone.
Wiki.

If i ever have the chance to use a time machine, i’m going back to year zero and see what happened.

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 23:19:59

If I ever had a time machine I’d go 3 months forward in time and bring back a copy of the Wall Street Journal.

 
 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-17 11:18:14

This was my same thought. Calling on a Saint to help you with a financial or real estate transaction is the kind of prayer that falls on deaf ears.

Me personally, if I were an FB I would build a fire in the yard, offer some spiced rum to the gods, and dance around while waving a chicken claw in the air chanting sell, sell, sell!

Comment by oxide
2009-09-17 12:17:24

And if you’re lucky, the fire will spread to the house.

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Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-17 12:37:10

Yes…fire! That would prove the gods were listening.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:15:55

Yes…fire! That would prove the gods were listening.

Ahh? Ahhh!
We must know the same gods! ;)

 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-09-17 17:00:02

Maybe they should be praying to St. Elmo.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 18:10:22

Maybe they should be praying to St. Elmo.

Do you think? Explain:

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:51:35

Saint Elmo’s Fire is an electrical weather phenomenon, a coronal discharge.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 07:10:38

An Appetite for Risk
By Bill Jenkins
09/16/09 Pylesville, Maryland

The world is awash in credit and debt. What I mean is, credit had been extended to anything with a shadow. Almost every Tom, Dick and Harry participated in it. From the central banks around the world to the man in the street, everyone has done exactly the same thing: finance whatever needs to be bought.

And when we ran out of money, no problem! There was more where that came from. In one sense we couldn’t spend money fast enough. As soon as it was gone, there was more suddenly available. So we just finance the house again, take out some equity (which always rises) and do one of two things – Pay off credit cards (so we can load more debt on them) or just spend the cash on things a home improvement (that is no longer reflected in the price of the home) or a vacation.

Remember how MasterCard taught us that those memories were priceless? Hope you got some good ones… because you “done bought something you can’t eat,” as one of my teachers used to say.

At a time when we are drowning in debt, we are also out of money.

When a debtor is out of money, he has no ability to repay. And when a creditor has borrowers who are out of money, the creditor has no income. No earnings. No power to make better loans.

So how are banks in America posting “profits”? How did Citigroup, Bank of America, AIG and Wells Fargo jump 400% in stock price? Are they worth 400% more? Are their earnings up 400%? And where in the world did all this money come from?

These companies were just bankrupt… yet found a way to get back above water. And not just above water – they are making moon-shots!

Their share price should be zero (or less, if possible!). How are they worth so much more now?

As I have written before, mark-to-market accounting rules were repealed in favor of a fictitious slight of hand. Banks no longer have to list their distressed assets at the fire sale price they should be worth. Instead they get to record their value as the price they bought them, or what they believe they will be worth in the future.

In other words, it’s like me refinancing my house, but doing my own appraisal and assigning it whatever value suits me. I want cash out? Just pad the value of the house. I can’t afford a higher payment? No worries, I just pad my reported income. Two years down the road I can’t afford my payments anymore? Easy, just follow the same refinancing procedure all over again.

But my family and I would only have one toxic asset to deal with. The banks have them coming out the wazoo!

They are still in possession of the faulty loans and derivatives that caused this entire mess in the first place. Nothing has changed – except the accounting!

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 08:23:48

I don’t know ,I think a certain % of those loans have been modified and transfered to Fred or Fannie or some other Government holding Company .Certainly a huge % of the new loans being made have gone to the Government backed programs .

It goes back to Paulson wanting to take the toxic assets off the books of the Lenders/Investment firms and put it on the taxpayers . Paulson didn’t get a lot of public support for his idea and the public didn’t want to pay a high value for this junk . So in my opinion they are just making these transfers at par value and Paulson doesn’t have to answer to it
or justify the taxpayers getting screwed on government backed loans .

Comment by mikey
2009-09-17 13:48:36

“In cooking the books We Trust”

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 08:36:09

When a debtor is out of money, he has no ability to repay. And when a creditor has borrowers who are out of money, the creditor has no income. No earnings. No power to make better loans.

Priceless!

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 09:10:06

..These companies were just bankrupt..

That guy doesn’t understand the word.
To be bankrupt is to be unable to pay debts (insolvency).
But to be bankrupt, a business must be both unprofitable and insolvent.
———-
There are times when a business is technically insolvent, but is still able to make a profit. The business might have just expanded and is deeply in debt, but it is operating quite well and making lots of money, and the future is very promising..

Even if it’s not making enough profit to cover all debts, which is often the case and might last a while, debts can be restructured. There’s no “sleight of hand”.

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 23:27:42

“There are times when a business is technically insolvent, but is still able to make a profit.”

In my part of the world we call this “bankruptcy”. From Wiki: Insolvency means the inability to pay one’s debts as they fall due.

How can a profit be made when expenditures exceed income and there is no access to further debt due to default?

Wait, I’ve got it, the feds can step in and guarantee the debt and offer additional credit and then there is profit again.

Thanks for walking me through that joey, I feel a lot better now about how this will turn out.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:25:47

Only fools

buy overpriced houses.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 07:31:26

Why the hundred point up and back move on the DJIA already this morning? Perhaps the PPT needs to dump a lot more liquidity on the markets to make sure stocks only go up, up and away?

Would you like to ride in my beautiful balloon
Would you like to ride in my beautiful balloon
We could float among the stars together, you and I
For we can fly we can fly
Up, up and away
My beautiful, my beautiful balloon
The world’s a nicer place in my beautiful balloon
It wears a nicer face in my beautiful balloon
We can sing a song and sail along the silver sky
For we can fly we can fly
Up, up and away
My beautiful, my beautiful balloon

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-17 08:58:44

Jimmy Webb was 16 or 17 when he wrote that song, and like a fool was broke soon thereafter. He was talented enough to regain his wealth and learned to keep it.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 09:05:48

Is there any constraint whatever on the PPT’s potential to make sure the stock market keeps going up forever? I am thinking perhaps the foreign exchange market will eventually create an effective limit on this activity. From Bloomberg:

CURRENCY VALUE CHANGE % CHANGE TIME
EUR-USD 1.4731 0.0022 0.1462% 11:54
GBP-USD 1.6524 0.0030 0.1852% 11:54
USD-CHF 1.0294 -0.0028 -0.2742% 11:54
USD-SEK 6.8653 -0.0079 -0.1154% 11:53
USD-DKK 5.0512 -0.0072 -0.1434% 11:53
USD-NOK 5.8504 -0.0007 -0.0115% 11:54
USD-CZK 17.0730 -0.0389 -0.2272% 11:54
USD-SKK 20.4420 -0.0377 -0.1839% 11:53
USD-PLN 2.7986 -0.0029 -0.1026% 11:53
USD-HUF 184.0900 0.6400 0.3489% 11:54
USD-RUB 30.3260 -0.2405 -0.7868% 11:53
USD-TRY 1.4698 -0.0012 -0.0816% 11:54
USD-ILS 3.7358 -0.0126 -0.3375% 11:54
USD-KES 74.9500 -0.4875 -0.6462% 10:14
USD-ZAR 7.4120 0.0958 1.3087% 11:53
USD-MAD 7.7171 -0.0028 -0.0369% 11:53

Looking on the bright side, at least the dollar is going up relative to the Hungarian Forint and the South African Rand.

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 23:30:01

Ask Mugabe.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 07:48:47

Abolish Fed.

Inflation will destroy.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 07:38:29

Americans Plan to Limit Spending on Recovery Concern (Update1)

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) — Americans plan to refrain from boosting their spending even after the biggest drop in consumption since 1980, signaling concern about the direction of the economy over the next six months.

Only 8 percent of U.S. adults plan to increase household spending, almost one-third will spend less, and 58 percent expect to “stay the course,” a Bloomberg News poll showed. More than 3 in 4 said they reduced spending in the past year.

Respondents were divided over whether the economy will get better or stay the same in the next six months; only 1 in 6 said things will get worse. More than 40 percent of those surveyed said they feel less financially secure than they did when President Barack Obama took office in January, outnumbering 35 percent who said they feel more secure.

“People I never thought would lose their jobs have lost their jobs,” said Angela Payton, 42, a university publications editor in Florence, South Carolina. She kept her children out of summer camp, stopped buying organic milk and plans to curtail the party for her daughter’s 6th birthday in November.

In the poll, conducted Sept. 10-14, 40 percent of those questioned said they have experienced one or more problems from the banking crisis. In the most-often cited repercussions, 27 percent said their credit-card interest rates have risen dramatically and 15 percent report that they couldn’t get a home-equity, car, or other kind of consumer loan.

Comment by Doghouse Riley
2009-09-17 08:23:09

“stopped buying organic milk”

Now there’s a Tom Joad for the twenty-oughts, eh what?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 08:40:32

I’ll confess to buying organic milk. Why? Because I like the taste. And, since I only drink one, maybe two, glasses a day, a half gallon will last a whole week.

If I were drinking milk like water, then the cost of organic would start to annoy me. At my current consumption level, it’s a tasty treat that I enjoy.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 14:35:08

I think it stays fresher a lot longer too. That alone makes it comparable in price to non-organic for me. I was always dumping out sour milk, but I never seem to with organic. And it does taste better.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:03:08

I often get my milk from the Goat Man down the road. He just squeezes some fluid out of his goats and there you go. Nice and warm and very delicious. I happened to come by for a visit one time when it was milking time and I said I wanted to experience my joy right away, without the taint of glass or bucket or anything, so after some pestering, and after I explained how I milked goats when I was a lass–which is true—I was permitted to kneel down and get a sip of milk straight from the baggy pink-and-brown source.
My forearms have atrophied since my goat-milking days, and also I was laughing, so basically I got some milk squirts in my face, some squirts in my lungs, and about 2 droplets of milk actually into my stomach. Then the goat tried to kick my head off.

Ahhh….memories…
:lol:

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 16:13:40

I bet you made that billy-goat very happy.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 16:39:49

I bet you made that billy-goat very happy.

No….because there’s not much point in milking a billy-goat*.

But, you know, the Goat Guy seemed to be quite amazed and fascinated. Probably he just hasn’t seen many chicks come marching up the driveway and then fling aside their briefcase and Blackberry and insist on catching and squeezing a goat.

*No unseemly jokes, please. :)

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 18:07:35

I still picture it being a billy.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 18:26:34

I still picture it being a billy.

That’s because this is you*.

There is nothing more freakin’ unseemly and basically unnatural than drinking milk out of someone who is surprised when you come running up and announce: ‘I want to drink some milk out of you!’

*A lazy billy-goat sloth. I mean that in a good way, as you know.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 19:46:30

how could it not be a good way? (chews cud contemplatively)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 21:47:41

(chews cud contemplatively)

Oh, my! Did you also p*ee energetically into your beard and then go jump on a tractor and sing and dance around?* ..wait! Wait! I bet you did!

* I hope so! Because that’s what I like to see!

*

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 21:52:58

* Dangit! I got so excited shot my post off before I was even done. I had to jump up to my feet and run out and look for a tractor.
Then, when I was out there in the woods, I remembered there are no tractors handy, and I was crestfallen, but it was too late.
Why doesn’t anyone tell me these things, before I run out into the woods? Without a tractor?

 
 
 
Comment by Mot
2009-09-17 23:08:36

Ultra pasteurization is what does the trick. It is heated to a higher temperature than regular pasteurization which kills more germs enabling it to stay “fresh” longer.

That’s exactly why I buy it. Less to throw away.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 08:38:53

“People I never thought would lose their jobs have lost their jobs,” said Angela Payton, 42, a university publications editor in Florence, South Carolina. She kept her children out of summer camp, stopped buying organic milk and plans to curtail the party for her daughter’s 6th birthday in November.

If my parents had kept me out of summer camp, I would have jumped for joy. I much preferred staying home. And reading books. Lots of books.

As for curtailing the birthday party, hey, I’m a November baby too. And I seem to recall that my kid-birthdays were about as fancy as the family having supper in the dining room. Usually, we only did that on Sunday evenings. And the cake? Well, that was baked by Mom.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-09-17 09:43:48

Our kids’ birthday parties consisted of just a handful of neighborhood kids, a cake-mix cake, ice cream, and games in the basement rec room.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-09-17 10:51:27

Yes, ours too. Plus, since all 3 of us kids were born in October, my parents threw ONE birthday party for all 3 of us at once, with all of the kids from our 4-house “neighborhood” in attendance. Talk about economical. Mom did bake and decorate an individual cake for each kid, which was very nice of her. Mine was always banana cake, homemade - what was a mix ? No such thing for Mom.

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Comment by hd74man
2009-09-17 13:08:48

RE: She kept her children out of summer camp, stopped buying organic milk and plans to curtail the party for her daughter’s 6th birthday in November.

Such sacrifice…I feel tears coming.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:42:18

Such sacrifice…I feel tears coming.

Oh, no!
We all know how sensitive and gentle you are, but be strong, my dear hd74man.
I, too, felt the same heart-rending sorrow, but I sucked it up and quenched my pain by laughing my freakin’ *ss off.

Try it. It’s fun, and it always works. :lol:

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 18:51:17

hd74man…wow, long time no see …

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-09-17 15:48:33

I don’t understand. You guys seem to be implying that you won’t be happy until this woman and her daughter are so poor that they’re living on the streets and starving. Maybe the daughter should be sold into slavery.

I think it’s OK for a mom to want her kids to be healthy, and also to celebrate their lives.

Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 16:05:10

Maybe the daughter should be sold into slavery.

“How much for the little girl?”

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 16:28:23

Dangit! Your post beat my post, lavi. :)

…But I would pay at least 60 bucks for this daughter, so there.

Well, okay, 67.00 USD. But I’m firm on that.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 16:17:46

Maybe the daughter should be sold into slavery.

What?
*sits up from indolent lounging and giggling and puts on alert face *

How much will she cost? ‘Cause lately I been thinking I need a daughter. I’d like to get a fresh one, without too many stupid ideas already previously added.
This particular one might be too much work, now that I think of it…

Jeeze, Big V! No one said they wanted some white slavery. Or whatever color of slavery. Health and life-celebrations are good things.
It’s just that on the list of serious ’sacrifices’, organic milk and elaborate birthday parties are kinda at the low end. At least for me.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 07:43:20

The Fed’s Dr. Bernanke says the recession is “technically” about over and we’re in the recovery mode. Lila Rajiva comments: “What kind of recovery is that, you ask?”

“What kind? It’s the new deadbeat, can’t-get-a job, rocketing-inflation, trashed-currency, can’t-sell-my-house, can’t-make-my-payments, bankrupt-mafia-government, kazillions-in-debt, trade-warring-with-China recovery – that’s what it is. Glad you asked.

“It’s kind of a new thing. No one’s really tried it so far, but they’re doing it in Europe, we hear. And maybe a bit of it in Asia. But it’s back here in the US of A that we’ve got the whole thing down. Right here in Washington. And from now until the economy gets really going, we’ll be getting the full Bernanke on it – at least, that’s the buzz.”

Ground Hog Ben. L.Rockwell

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 08:19:38

..What kind of recovery is that..

nah.. it’s just the slow but steady kind of recovery and, like we waited several years for the bubble to expand and finally pop, we’ll have to wait years for a return to anything approaching normalcy.
It’s gonna be so slow that some people will be tearing their hair out and this Rockwell guy sounds like he is among the first.

got patience?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-09-17 09:35:41

Ah, but the problem is “normal” is still defined as the Bubble years. Until people realize that those years were not normal, then we’ll never recover.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 13:07:29

depression is the new recovery.

Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 18:58:42

hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-17 19:37:46

:-D

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 13:13:54

Yes means no. Black means white. Smart means stupid. Mortgage means free rent. Congress means well-oiled-machine. Fed means pure genious. Health-care means you better get back to work.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 14:16:22

Doubleplus good!

 
 
 
Comment by CincyDad
2009-09-17 07:45:18

But…. Things are booming around me….

http://dayton.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2009/09/14/daily14.html?surround=lfn

New office space going up ahead of schedule at new interstate interchange, in Dayton area.

I swear, we must be 180 degrees out of phase with the rest of you. Sure, some projects are being cancelled, but in general, things are really happening around here. New roads all over the place, new office buildings going up everywhere. New outlet mall just opened a mile from me.

Heck, even Home Depot just opened a new distribution center a mile from my house.

Maybe it’s due to all you folks and/or your companies on the coasts cashing out and moving to a low-cost, yet quite metropolitan area?

Comment by scdave
2009-09-17 09:05:46

Key sentance from the article;

“the development company will proceed with a public-private partnership with the county.”

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 10:27:06

Oh yea… In our little Podunk, we have this type of incestuous relationship in a number of our “revitalization” projects.

We have a wonderful example in a Condo complex, a sweet deal between a developer, our university and the city. The building sits with 20% occupancy for more than a year now. The developer got his money and split, the university gets a reduced tax rate, and the city/taxpayers get screwed while holding the bag.

Of course now they a dropping the prices in hopes of enticing parents of students to buy them as investments in their chidrens future.

Comment by oxide
2009-09-17 12:35:43

Depends on the price of the condo. They could sell well for $50K. If two students split it, it could cost less than an apartment for four years.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 13:31:57

You are right however these are “luxury” Condos priced from the high 200’s to the low 400’s. So how’s the working out…not to good.

They do now offer a 1br. 1ba. for 175,000.00

 
 
 
Comment by CincyDad
2009-09-17 11:05:12

That seems to be the way the ‘fill-in’ between Cincinnati and Dayton is taking place.

 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-09-17 12:47:41

hmmm Dayton Hamvention. Biggest Hamfest in the USA (ham radio).

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 15:16:41

Be there and be square.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 18:12:21

now if it were country ham…

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Comment by Eddie
2009-09-17 07:54:44

Another anecdote I’m sure this crowd will enjoy.

You all may be familiar with U-verse the AT&T fiber optic service being rolled out. I used to have AT&T land line, no longer, I switched to digital phone service from my cable provider. Get a knock on my door over the weekend from a sales rep telling me U-verse in now available in my area, would I like to sign up, I can get a big discount as an ex-AT&T customer, I have AT&t wireless, even bigger discount, blah blah.

I told him I’d think about it, give me a call next week, I don’t have time to talk right now. Today, I get a call from a number I don’t recognize. Don’t answer it. I looked up the number on google and saw it was the number of a real estate agent, “John Smith”. No clue who he is. Same number calls an hour later, I answer it. Turns out John Smith is the sales rep from AT&T.

At least he’s got a job.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 08:43:25

I dumped my land line last year. Nowadays, I use Vonage to make domestic and international calls via my Internet connection. So, AT&T would get nowhere with me.

Comment by Kim
2009-09-17 10:27:35

My parents had Vonage for two years. It just didn’t work out for them (silent spots, dropped calls). They tolerated it for a while, but then switched back to a land line.

However, my sister has been using Magic Jack while spending time in Australia, and it works marvelously.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 13:17:33

I’ve been answering the pledge phones down at the community radio station, KXCI-FM. Other night, I got a Skype call from Ecuador, and, man, that call was clear as a bell. Renewing member of the station who listens via the Internet.

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Comment by Jon
2009-09-17 09:25:44

I signed up for Uverse then dropped it before they installed it. Ask them how much taxes are for the service and how many HD channels you get with the plan they want to sell you. Far more expensive than cable. Good luck.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 11:17:33

I don’t see a bright future for cable. Why? Because there’s a lot of content available via the Internet.

I, for one, like to catch episodes of The Daily Show while I’m having my lunch break. All I have to do is point my browser to the DS website, then yuk it up for a few minutes.

I also have quite a jones for YouTube, and, guess what? That stuff’s not even on cable.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-17 11:36:21

Here in Sacramento Comcast has a good strangle hold on customers for internet service as well as tv. Service they provide over coax cable.

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Comment by Skip
2009-09-17 12:18:49

Cable companies also have very profitable internet service.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 13:19:09

I only use Cox Communications for the Internet. And I nailed ‘em good for trying to bundle cable teevee into the mix. Yours Truly has never owned a teevee. Hence, no need for a cable teevee hookup here.

 
 
Comment by AdamCO
2009-09-17 14:37:54

wife and i got rid of all tv service about eight months ago. directv made us mad and the local cable company, when asked about a switch to HD, said, “yeah, we don’t really have any plans for that…”

so i have it set up to download the shows we watch automatically to our mac mini, which is connected a nice 42 lcd. works great, although we have to go to the bar to catch the big game.

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Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 15:04:09

…although we have to go to the bar to catch the big game.

You can watch the Broncos at my place. Bring microbrew.

 
 
 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-09-17 14:56:48

Yep, I priced it too. Their pricing was no different than Comcasts’. Only upside I could see was being able to record 4 programs. I DO like that feature.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 08:07:08

China Derivatives
(Excerpt)
Graham Summers

In case you have not heard the news, China has announced that it will be instructing its state-owned enterprises to potentially default on their derivatives contracts. As I have written extensively in the past, the derivatives market is a massive time bomb just waiting to go off. China’s latest move may be the match that lights the fuse.

All told, US Commercial banks own $202 trillion in derivatives in notional value. To put that number into perspective, it’s roughly four times the global GDP. And 96% of this exposure sits on five banks’ balance sheets.

Of course, not ALL of the $202 trillion these guys own is “at risk.” As their name implies, derivatives are “derived” from underlying assets (homes, debt, etc). The actual “at risk” money can be far FAR smaller than the “notional” value of derivatives outstanding.

However, when you’re talking about $200+ trillion, even a marginal amount of “at risk” money can mean ENORMOUS losses. Consider, if 1% of that $200 trillion were at risk, you’re talking about $2 trillion in capital. Now, if even 10% of those bets go bad, you’re talking about $200 billion in losses.

Now consider that, combined, the top five banks (JP Morgan, Goldman, BofA, Citi, and HSBC) have roughly $700 billion in equity.

And that’s it only 1% of the derivatives outstanding are actually “at risk.” Given the over-leveraged, stupid plays Wall Street made on mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps (both investments that had SOME degree of oversight, even if it were paltry), as well as the fact that derivatives are COMPLETELY unregulated, I would argue it’s quite possible that as much as 5% or even 10% of the derivatives outstanding could be “at risk.”

In that case, we’re talking about $10-$20 trillion in “at risk” capital. If even 10% of these bets go wrong, you’ve wiped out ALL the equity at all five banks AND THEN SOME.

As I mentioned just now (and before many times), the primary problem with derivatives is that they are COMPLETELY TOTALLY unregulated. NO ONE has any idea what’s “at risk” or who owns what or who’s betting against who.

But we may be about to find out.

I’ve detailed the ongoing conflict between China and the US regarding monetary policies on these pages before. The brief overview is that China owns $800+ billion (by some accounts $1.3 trillion or more) of our Treasuries (debt) and is not too happy about Ben Bernanke and other US monetary figures throwing trillions around in bailouts and emergency measures to counteract the financial crisis.

China has fired a couple of “warning” shots already, mainly in the form of various Chinese diplomats expressing concern and frustration with the US’s monetary policies. They even flew China’s Vice Premiere to an unscheduled talk with US monetary officials back in July.

No one knows what was said during the talks, but given that Ben Bernanke is extended Quantitative Easing to October and has shown little signs of reversing his current “anti-dollar” policies, it’s pretty clear China didn’t get what they wanted.

I’ve often wondered what China would do if push came to shove. Their decision to have their state-owned enterprises default or renege on their derivatives contracts may be the answer.

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-09-17 09:24:04

China has announced that it will be instructing its state-owned enterprises to potentially default on their derivatives contracts.

What if they just move the toxic contracts to a subsidiary and have the sub declare bankruptcy? Didn’t some company over here do that?

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 09:28:41

the derivatives market is a massive time bomb just waiting to go off. China’s latest move may be the match that lights the fuse.

Holy mixed metaphor, Batman!

:)

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 09:48:30

LOL - I missed that. Too funny.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 14:39:12

Another fine example of financial journalism.

This is why I have a hard time taking most of those clowns seriously. If they can’t master basic writing skills, why would they have any expertise on their subject matter?

 
 
Comment by awiating wipeout
2009-09-17 10:04:04

I’ve always wondered what happen to the ISDA’s regulatory control of the Derivatives market? We traded OTC when Paulson was done with his magic (degreulation agenda). I didn’t hear or read (which could be infact “mof”-my own fault) a peep out of the ISDA scolding the U.S. Anyone know?

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-17 10:06:05

“degreulation” - sorry

Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 19:05:24

“degreulation” — the process of removing excess soup

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Comment by salinasron
2009-09-17 10:20:06

“In case you have not heard the news, China has announced that it will be instructing its state-owned enterprises to potentially default on their derivatives contracts.”

Everything has it’s ‘tipping point’ and this just maybe the one that brings the financial world to that ‘ah ha’ moment. Sad thing about tipping points, once they occur it takes many, many years to put humpty dumpty back together again.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 10:36:26

Speaking of tipping points.

Bus = U.S. housing market
Crane = Fed?

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-17 14:35:04

The International Swaps & Derivative Association is suppose to be the regulatory “police” (if you will) of all this magical leverage. It’s the UN of financial instruments. Maybe I learned to much theory in Structured Finance. The real world must be full of crooks- go figure :)

 
 
Comment by james
2009-09-17 11:16:18

I think all this “credit” disapears down the memory hole soon.

What is great here is that everyone is bankrupt simultaneously.

Not sure how that was possible but it seems like we managed it.

Wow, the magic of leverage is amazing.

 
Comment by polly
2009-09-17 13:41:53

Wow. That is really all I can say. Wow.

Thanks for posting this.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 14:28:19

I got to say WOW also .

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 15:30:13

If derivatives are “COMPLETELY TOTALLY unregulated”, then there should be no problem at all. The magic of the free market will cure everything promptly, right? Oh, this unregulated disaster doesn’t count because some gov was involved somewhere somehow? Gee, I guess someday we’ll get to see a real free, unregulated market work. Maybe in the next world? (Is heaven capitalist or communist?)

 
 
Comment by Doghouse Riley
2009-09-17 08:15:50

The “say it in five words” topic caused me to wonder if there has ever been an “HBB meme haiku thread” (if there was I missed it) and I could not resist.

Buyers make the rules
In every suburb today
Squirrels are on their own

Where are the green shoots?
Only one sapling will thrive
The Joshua tree

Dust in the hallways
Faded curtains’ soft whisper:
“Casey bought us once”

Comment by jsocal
2009-09-17 09:18:52

+3 (one for each)

especially liked the last one

Comment by X-philly
2009-09-17 11:05:47

OK it’s on:

realtor babe calls
“This house is so YOU!”
her perfume too strong

Comment by Doghouse Riley
2009-09-17 12:55:41

If no one is home
Can you still hear the screaming
When the knife is caught?

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Comment by X-philly
2009-09-17 13:37:00

Yours are good. I don’t have the cadence or the meter right, whatever you call it.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 16:33:16

Scansion.

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 18:41:54

tension of scansion
inhibits the expansion
of mind’s McMansion

 
Comment by technovelist
2009-09-17 19:31:52

If no one is home
Can you still hear the screaming
When the knife is caught?

Excellent!

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:17:54

realtor babe calls
“This house is so YOU!”
her perfume too strong

Beautiful.
I’m actually a fan and a student of haiku–probably because I gots ADHD and therefore have no attention span to speak of—and THIS one is exquisite.
I thank you.

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Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 09:33:35

an “HBB meme haiku thread”

Excellent. All three.

 
Comment by innocent bystander
2009-09-17 09:41:51

LOVE it! : )

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-17 09:50:32

‘has ever been an “HBB meme haiku thread’

Sigh. We were all over that in spring 2005 on the original blog.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 09:59:03

There are a few here.

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Comment by ann gogh
2009-09-17 11:20:21

I love haikus.
80% mortgage market is
nationalized. What does it mean?

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Comment by DennisN
2009-09-17 09:56:48

I’ve posted my doggerel haiku before. My favorite was from last summer when Jesse Jackson said he’d like to castrate Obama.

Jackson’s switchblade cuts
Scrotal sack of Barry O
Nuts fall to the ground.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:51:28

Barn door left open
All the horses ran away
Hurry, shut the door

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:54:04

This land was your land
Then the bankers stole their TARP
Mary Travers died

 
Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 23:00:23

Wonderful, Riley. These haikus tell the story of dreams abandoned.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 08:20:30

FedEx 1Q profit falls, sees improving economy but notes profit will stay weak this year

NEW YORK (AP) — FedEx Corp. said Thursday it sees signs of improvement in the global economy as international shipments pick up, but warned its profit will remain weak at least through the end of the year.

The world’s second-largest package delivery company, considered a bellwether of economic health, said fiscal 2010 first-quarter earnings fell 53 percent — matching its prediction released last week. It also reiterated a fiscal second-quarter view that implies a modest uptick in worldwide economic activity.

FedEx indicated it might start beefing up schedules for flight crew and hourly personnel as package volume improves, but it doesn’t expect that to happen soon. It also doesn’t expect to start adding back employees it cut during the worst of the downturn in the near future.

Over the last year, the company has laid off workers and cut wages for thousands of employees to cut costs.

The Memphis, Tenn.-based company reported earnings of $181 million, or 58 cents per share for the quarter ended in August, compared with $384 million, or $1.23 per share, a year ago.

Revenue fell 20 percent to about $8 billion.

Analysts predicted profit of 58 cents per share on revenue of $8.24 billion.

Comment by Neil
2009-09-17 08:49:44

First, kudos to FedEx for staying in the black. Most airlines are on life support right now. I feel bad for the laid off workers… but at least they ‘right sized’ to survive.

Losing $2 Billion of revenue (20%) and staying in the black shows a well managed business. Not that I’m buying any airline stock right now…

I wish them luck.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-17 12:00:48

Airline or shipper?

Comment by DD
2009-09-17 15:10:34

2 completely different species.

Airlines fares are below sea level.
Shippers still have workable charges.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:49:21

Let’s say the tourism biz is in the toilet bowl. Business trips that would have cost me over $1000 a couple of years ago are now costing $700 — 30 percent discount!

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-17 08:43:18

Predators and Decepticons, Underwater Mortgage Variety:

FTC files charges against 2 mortgage rescue firms, accusing them of posing as gov’t agencies

By Alan Zibel, AP Real Estate Writer
On Thursday September 17, 2009, 10:16 am EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — Federal authorities are cracking down on two companies that promised homeowners help with their mortgages, accusing them of posing them as government agencies.

The Federal Trade Commission on Thursday said it filed charges against two companies — Nations Housing Modification Center and Infinity Group Services. It accused the companies of charging homeowners large fees for assistance in working with their lenders, but did “little or nothing” to actually help borrowers.

Federal regulators have filed charges against a total of 22 such operators. And in Washington, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Attorney General Eric Holder met with attorneys general from 12 states to discuss anti-fraud efforts.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-17 09:16:21

I would be willing to bet that a good percentage of new “jobs” people can interview for these days are scam related.

Also, commission and MLM oriented. There is an ARCO gas station about a mile from me that seems to be a magnet for these types. Last week a guy about my age (58) is walking around with a can of aerosol window cleaner and a rag, trying to sell cans of the cleaner to the people pumping their own gas at this self-serve station. Not many interested in the “watch how this works on your windshield” demo. When he came over by me I asked him how many cases he had to buy to get started in the business. He looked at me kind of surprised and said “20″.
So that’s 240 cans of cleaner he had to “invest” in, so that he could patrol this “hot corner” where the “last guy was clearing a thousand a week”. That last guy had told me all about the opportunity a month ago before he found greener pastures. I doubt you could make more than $10 a day doing this around here in the current economy.

By the sidewalk on this corner there is a little sign stuck in the ground that says “Earn CEO wages from Home! 480-111-2222 - Don’t believe it - don’t call!” I thought, that’s pretty clever, if the guy on the other end ever hears the phone ring, he knows he’s got a real mark.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 11:20:56

I’ll confess to falling for an MLM pitch or two when I was younger. I quickly learned that it was a lousy way to make money. My “sponsor” kept telling me that I could also buy the products (vitamins) at wholesale. Which I did until I left Pittsburgh.

After I moved to Tucson, I made an amazing discovery. The retail vitamin prices at the Food Conspiracy Co-op were less than the MLM wholesale prices I’d been paying back in Pgh. So, adios MLM wholesale and hola, Food Conspiracy.

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 12:55:47

“I’ll confess to falling for an MLM pitch or two when I was younger’.

Plenty of people have, and many wouldn’t admit it. I never was in MLM but I did work in a “boiler room” once trying to sell aluminum siding. I was 16, early 70’s and I lasted 2 weeks, I sucked at it.

I’ll always remember the boss man saying, stick to the script kid, it’s a proven winner!

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Comment by wolfgirl
2009-09-17 14:28:29

I looked at the prices of some MLM vitamins a few weeks ago. Totally insane. I’d rather spend the extra money on fresh fruits and vegetables.

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Comment by rosie
2009-09-17 08:49:29

F.T. reports that China is banning the export of rare earth metals as well as silver and gold. Go Gold

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 08:52:51

SHhhhhhhh!! Obama is speaking.

Comment by Doghouse Riley
2009-09-17 09:42:53

“SHhhhhhhh!! Obama is speaking.”

when isn’t he?

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-17 10:09:00

It sure beats what came out of the past President’s mouth:

“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.” —Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

 
Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-17 11:12:39

would you prefer: There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again. —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-17 19:15:44

I’ll listen to O if Joe Wilson is in the same room w/ O. The new Baucus bill incorporates language requiring that applicants for health insurance in the new “exchange” produce verification of their citizenship or legal residency.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 09:10:47

China’s “cancer villages” bear witness to economic boom

HONG KONG (Reuters) - One needs to look no further then the river that runs through Shangba to understand the extent of the heavy metals pollution that experts say has turned the hamlets in this region of southern China into cancer villages.

The river’s flow ranges from murky white to a bright shade of orange and the waters are so viscous that they barely ripple in the breeze. In Shangba, the river brings death, not sustenance.

“All the fish died, even chickens and ducks that drank from the river died. If you put your leg in the water, you’ll get rashes and a terrible itch,” said He Shuncai, a 34-year-old rice farmer who has lived in Shangba all his life.

“Last year alone, six people in our village died from cancer and they were in their 30s and 40s.”

Cancer casts a shadow over the villages in this region of China in southern Guangdong province, nestled among farmland contaminated by heavy metals used to make batteries, computer parts and other electronics devices.

Every year, an estimated 460,000 people die prematurely in China due to exposure to air and water pollution, according to a 2007 World Bank study.

Yun Yaoshun’s two granddaughters died at the ages of 12 and 18, succumbing to kidney and stomach cancer even though these types of cancers rarely affect children. The World Health Organization has suggested that the high rate of such digestive cancers are due to the ingestion of polluted water.

“It’s because of Daboshan and the dirty water,” said the 82-year-old grandmother. “The girls were always playing in the river, even our well water is contaminated,” Yun told Reuters during a visit to the village.

Mounds of tailings from mineral mining are discarded alongside paddy fields throughout the region.

“If you test this rice, it will be toxic but we eat it too, otherwise, we will starve,” said He, the farmer, as he shoveled freshly milled rice into a sack.

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-17 09:49:27

I guess thats one way to take care of excess population :|

We all need to be very aware of the fact that we have basically exported our pollution problems overseas. It wasn’t so long ago that our own rivers were pretty toxic and even caught fire from time to time. The only thing that has allowed Walmart and our disposable consumer society to exist at all is the terrible fact that China just doesnt give a $hit about such things.

Comment by james
2009-09-17 15:22:25

You know when we talk about globalization and how bad it F-d the country; this is one of the many things being done to make those profits for the big guys.

1) No enviromental regulations… we forget how bad things were here in the US

2) No labor safety regulations

3) No labor wage regulation

4) they steal just about anything. Technology, IP, software. Any kind of fraud you can dream of. It was VERY bad with Japan and I could hardly think it would get worse. But there it is. It’s worse.

5) Dangerous substandard products working their way into the system. Be they IC’s, drywall, chicken or toys.

Again, it is a difficult and dangerous road to extract ourselves from this mess.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-09-17 10:04:41

I’ve made the point on here a few times that the lack of environment laws, as could be enforced by high tariffs, not only kills our manufacturing base in the U.S. but also is absolutely horrible for the environment.

IMO leveling out environmental laws across the globe should be pretty close to the #1 priority of Obama’s administration.

Comment by Sleepr Cell
2009-09-17 10:32:01

Absolutly!

That would make a lot more sense than starting a pointless trade war over cheap tires.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-09-17 12:20:05

I totally agree, packman.

And in the same way, the flawed cap-and-trade of greenhouse gases will merely push all the jobs in industries that emit overseas.

Business is good at arbitraging limitations.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-09-17 15:56:30

Yup.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 12:20:00

Send over Erin Brockovitch!

Comment by james
2009-09-17 18:06:50

Yeah.

In China she gets a one way trip out the back.

Raped.

Then probably shot.

Goodtimes there in China.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 14:41:38

+ a gazillion primey, sleepr, packman.

I’ve mentioned several times what I hear from a friend who works for the ports here in WA. He goes over there on trade mission sorts of thingies and tours the waterfronts and industrial centers of many cities, and when he comes back the stories he tells are just mind-bogglingly horrific. It’s hard to wrap your head around stuff like this.

The river’s flow ranges from murky white to a bright shade of orange and the waters are so viscous that they barely ripple in the breeze. In Shangba, the river brings death, not sustenance.

This sort of thing absolutely is NOT just in Shangba. I bet that “estimated 460,000 people (dying) prematurely in China” is much, much, MUCH too low a number…

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-17 18:16:32

The word in textiles is you can tell what colors *Pantone has promoted for a season, but the color of the rivers in China.
(*Pantone helps clothing and houseware firms create demand by changing color schemes every season.)

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 09:24:00

Here is some fantastic news for Ownership Society members:

market pulse

Sept. 17, 2009, 12:02 p.m. EDT

Households’ net worth rises first time in 2 years

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - American households were $2 trillion richer on June 30 than they were three months earlier, the first time in two years that household net worth has increased, the Federal Reserve reported Thursday in its quarterly flow of funds report. Household wealth rose in the second quarter at a 17% annual rate, or $2 trillion, to $53.1 trillion after falling at a 13% rate in the first quarter. The rally on Wall Street was the main reason for the increase in household wealth, but rising home prices contributed as well.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 09:36:49

I can’t help but wonder how much rejoicing this upbeat news will bring households facing foreclosure or job loss?

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 11:00:43

Well, as Ricardo used to say… “It’s not how you feel, it’s how you look, and you look marvelous”

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 14:47:16

“Ju look mahhhvelous!”

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 09:39:44

If the stock market tanks from here, it will be one of the most widely-anticipated corrections in history. “A closely watched pot never boils over.”

market pulse

Sept. 17, 2009, 12:31 p.m. EDT

U.S. stocks losing momentum after long climb

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — U.S. stocks ran out of steam Thursday afternoon, with financials fronting a reversal into negative territory. “When we were up, it was eight out of nine days, and economic-data wise we have to start questioning whether these numbers were good enough to continue to propel us,” said Peter Boockvar, equity strategist at Miller Tabak.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-09-17 10:08:09

Woohoo! Statistically Double plus good times ahead. Let’s party!

Go, Winston. Go, Winston. It’s ur Birthday!

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-17 14:39:21

Ah that paper wealth is so comforting.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-17 09:50:47

For a while this morning the US Dollar index traded at a new 52 week low on the NY Board of Trade. Coincidently the equities markets were trading at about 52 week highs. Evidently a good portion of the trillions the Fed has been creating recently found its way into the money casino.
This ought to get very interesting when all the recent winners show up at the window to cash in their chips.

Plunge protect us at the market; all or none please. Good til canceled.

Comment by Kim
2009-09-17 10:02:41

Quad-witching, here we come!

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 10:31:54

Of course the cash 4 clunk program had nothing to do with the environment, it was simply to prop up the auto bitness. Dough 4 Dumps is the same plan.

A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of
gas a year.

A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons a
year.

So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
consumption by 320 gallons per vehicle, per year.

They claim 700,000 vehicles so that’s 224 million gallons saved per
year.

That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.

5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.

More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
about $350 million dollars

So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars for this program
to save $350 million.

We spend $8.57 for every dollar saved.

How good a deal was that?

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-17 11:15:14

What about year 2? 3? 4?

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 17:45:44

The cars will be repo’ed after the first year. They will be driving worse POS clunkers than the ones they traded in. Great.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 18:51:24

If so many are repo’ed, then there will be a ton on the market, further depressing prices and encouraging more to quit paying for their own clunkers. Used cars will be cheaper than dirt. Hyperinflation here we come! Buy now or…

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Comment by WT Economist
2009-09-17 11:15:59

You forgot to deduct the oil used to produce, distribute and sell the new cars and recycle the old ones.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-17 11:37:31

What the two guys above me said.

May offend you wmbz (FWIW generally I respect your posts) - but please don’t parrot the crap you get in mass-forwarded emails. I got this same thing sent to me the other day as well, and could tell it was crap, for the very two reasons mentioned above - it doesn’t annualize the gas savings factor, and it doesn’t factor in the cost to build or to demolish the cars.

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 11:43:50

I not offend-able that was sent to me by a fellow at a power company. I don’t take or get too serious about any of this stuff. Of course the list of things not factored in is far longer, and could go on for pages.

My real point was the program had nothing to do with anything but trying to give the auto industry a boost, plain and simple.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 13:12:20

..and giving the auto industry a boost was only a way of giving the economy a boost.

They don’t especially care if people buy houses or cars or whatever.. Those two things happen to be relatively expensive and almost universally desirable. Almost everyone is in the market to buy homes and cars.
Since larger, more expensive items generate a lot of financial activity with a single purchase, those industries have gotten support.
All they care about is keeping the money flowing through the system.
———

I’m sure they’d like to support boat sales, motorcycles, farm equipment and similar, but those products have very selective markets and supporting those industries would certainly be viewed as preferential treatment (far more preferential than some now feel about the encouragement of auto and home sales).

What’s next on the list? Maybe large appliances.. after that? I dunno.. televisions and stereos? The govt will be offering tax credits or rebates on the purchase of a pack of cigarettes if things get bad enough..

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:22:45

The people will be using packs of cigarettes as currency if things get bad enough.

 
 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-09-17 14:37:23

We spend $8.57 for every dollar saved.

How good a deal was that?

Depends on if you are the person getting the dollar or paying the $8.57.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 10:56:02

Big Bankers would like to pull the plug on it.
Not many people living today remember when a U.S. dollar was defined as something of real substance and value. Most of us have lived our lives with a debt money system in which even the experts cannot predict the value of U.S. currency as far as a year into the future.

Rep. Ron Paul’s bill to audit the Federal Reserve (HR 1207), if adopted, would take a giant step toward fixing our dishonest money system. It now has 287 co-sponsors, and the numbers keep growing! HR 1207’s companion bill in the Senate, S 604, has already attracted 24 co-sponsors.

Barney Frank has said his House Financial Services committee will look into HR 1207 later this month. Our guess is he would like to keep it in mothballs, so heavy pressure must come from constituents.

Remember - under the sound money system adopted by the Founders the United States prospered until early in the 20th century. The dollar’s purchasing power increased some 11 percent. With the advent of the Federal Reserve the purchasing power of the dollar steadily decreased in less than a century more than 95 percent! Something must be done to stop the demise of the dollar and the adoption of HR1207 and S 604 opens the possibility of preventing total destruction of the once mighty United States dollar.

Gary North adds: “Until H. R. 1207, Congress had remained comatose with regard to the FED ever since 1914. Bernanke is the first Chairman to face skepticism regarding the independence of the FED. This has to do with politics. Politicians want to find out which big banks got how much. This has nothing to do with the fundamental question, namely, the theoretical case for a bankers’ cartel enforced by a central bank. That question has not been raised by 99.9% of academia, the media, or politicians since 1914.

“The Powers That Be will keep the public bamboozled for as long as the economy does not collapse, either through mass inflation, mass depression, or both.

“The bills are coming due. The crash will come. The consumers’ veto will come. The FED’s free ride will end. In the meantime, audit the FED.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 11:18:34

Madoff beach house sells big
The Ponzi swindler’s Montauk getaway goes to a mystery buyer for more than its $8.75 million list price.
September 17, 2009

NEW YORK (Fortune) — It looks like Fed chief Ben Bernanke is right in saying the recession is ending: Today, Tiffany’s & Co. advertised a $115,000 diamond and platinum bracelet in its page three New York Times spot — and convicted swindler Bernie Madoff’s Montauk beach house sold for more than its $8.75 million list price.

The real estate agent handling the property won’t disclose the buyer — nor the exact price — but says contracts have been signed. “It did go for over the list price,” Joan Hegner, a broker with Corcoran Group, told Fortune. There were between five and 10 offers on the property, and more than 28 showings since it went on the market in late August, she added.

The house, nestled on a beach in Montauk — a town at the farthest reaches of Long Island known for its surfing and fishing — is a relatively modest getaway for a family as wealthy as the Madoffs. Completed in 1982, it featured a Formica kitchen and small bedrooms.

Locals were skeptical that Corcoran — enlisted by a U.S. Marshal-picked management company — could even get the asking price.

But the property, which boasts sweeping ocean views, was built closer to the beach than would be permitted under today’s strict zoning regulations. And it offered the added bonus of the trophy value of nabbing the vacation home of the biggest swindler in history.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 12:09:52

“Corcoran Group..”

there’s that Corcoran name again.. the babe on Shark Tank.. former RE magnate who supposedly sold her business back in 2001.
Maybe there’s another one running around..
——
nope.. just kept the name..

September 25, 2001
Corcoran Sells Realty Firm She Founded
Ms. Corcoran, a 51-year-old former receptionist, started her current real estate firm with just $1,000 and seven agents in 1973 selling apartments on the Upper East Side. This deal allows her to cash out at a time when many in the real estate industry say the market may have just passed its peak and may be heading downward. The deal was announced late today.

not bad.. turn $1,000 into $70 million.. she could probably teach Hillary a thing or two.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-09-17 11:45:07

No haikus today
But yes topical jest
Maybe in great supply

Kanye Interrupts Swayze Funeral, Says Jackson’s was Better:

Even as the buzz on Twitter, Facebook, and the universe of entertainment news outlets is humming with the discussion of the hip-hop star’s outrageous antics at the MTV Video Music Awards, Kanye West doubled down on his image as an outspoken and no-holds-barred loudmouth yesterday.

During a service being held to remember the life and career Patrick Swayze, West barged his way into the pastor’s pulpit, comandered the microphone and launched into a tirade on the ’80s star’s death and funeral.

After seizing the platform from the startled reverend, West said, “I’m happy for you Patrick, and I’ll let them finish your service in a minute, but I just wanted to say that Michael had one of the best funerals ever!”

Swayze was unavailable for comment.

Comment by ATE-UP
2009-09-17 12:37:26

Ha Ha !!!

Comment by X-philly
2009-09-17 13:40:13

You know, I could see a new career for Kanye: crashing his way through every A-list event Hollywood has to offer.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-09-17 11:47:54

Looks like we’re going to get a pull back.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:52:03

Why do you think so, given the stock market (lately) always goes up?

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 12:02:52

This month’s Unclear on the Concept Award.

“Tea Party Protesters Protest D.C. Metro Service”,

“The Texas Republican on Wednesday released a letter he sent to Washington’s Metro system complaining that the taxpayer-funded subway system was unable to properly transport protesters to the rally to protest government spending and expansion.”

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-17 13:22:39

And to think that, on Inauguration Day, the Metro handled a record passenger load. An acquaintance from Tucson was in DC that day, and she said that she and her friends had no problems getting around on the Metro.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 14:10:05

“The Texas Republican on Wednesday released a letter he sent to Washington’s Metro system complaining that the taxpayer-funded subway system was unable to properly transport protesters to the rally to protest government spending and expansion.”

Ai, yi, yi. Does this prove their point or does it mean they want the gummint to spend more money to aid in their protests against spending more money?

Either way, I love it.

 
Comment by measton
2009-09-17 14:30:25

That’s funny

I suspect that all the grey haired protesters then went to see their doctor paid for by Medicare. And the vet in a wheel chair went to see his VA doc.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-17 18:05:38

Unclear on the Concept Award

Wish we had Molly Ivins and Ann Richards around to comment.
:cry:

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 18:37:20

Me too. They were the last of the Red Hot Firebrands.

 
 
 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-09-17 12:20:10

Peter Schiff is running for senate. He formally announced his candidacy today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usVyfMyitHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA6s4_zLTQU

Finally we have a candidate who can think rationally and talk straight, no bull@#$%. I am drooling over the thought of him debating these career politicians.

Make no mistake, he is a dark horse. His current poll ratings stand at 1%. ONE PERCENT. We must do everything we can to get that number rising. Please follow this man’s campaign.

Spread the word: the PETERNATOR has ARRIVED!! And so it begins …

Comment by ann gogh
2009-09-17 12:45:14

He’s on my facebook buddy list. it’s all very exciting.

 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-09-17 13:27:27

“His current poll ratings stand at 1%. ONE PERCENT.”

What moron supports Chris Dodd? What is his percentage? If he gets elected again, there is absolutely no hope for this country. If there ever was a bigger jackass… oh, I forgot about Barney Frank.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 14:57:24

You do realize that thinking and speaking rationally are liabilities in politics, right? The biggest reason being that most people will not understand a thing he says.

But I do wish him luck. Hell if Kucinich is still alive an holding office, I guess it’s possible.

Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 15:19:41

“Hell if Kucinich is still alive an holding office, I guess it’s possible”.

Yea, but Kucinich saw a UFO while on Shirley McClain’s back deck, so he’s always a shoe in.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 18:38:39

I’d forgot about that! :lol:

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Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 18:59:19

How does Peter square his investment firm’s massive bets against the US dollar with his senate run? Is he going to fix our economic problems and destroy his business? Or does he think there’s no fixing it? (Quite a platform!) If elected, will he pull his bets against the US dollar? (I somehow doubt it, but talk about a conflict of interest!))

Comment by Lesser Fool
2009-09-17 23:01:03

I imagine that if he gets elected he will hand over the reins of Europacific Capital to somebody else who will make all the investment decisions.

If Peter does manage to convince the entire Senate, Congress and the President to change course (a BIG if there), then it will all be public knowledge and there will be ample time for Europac and their clients to course correct accordingly.

I see no conflict of interest unless Schiff is actively managing his firm’s investments while he is a Senator.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 12:33:01

China’s Pig Farmers Amass Copper, Nickel, Sucden Says

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) — Private investors in China, the world’s largest metals user, have stockpiled “substantial” quantities of copper as the government ramps up stimulus spending to spur the economy, according to Sucden Financial Ltd.

Pig farmers and other speculators may have amassed more than 50,000 metric tons, Jeremy Goldwyn, who oversees business development in Asia for London-based Sucden, wrote in an e- mailed report after a visit to China. That’s about half the level of inventories tallied by the Shanghai Futures Exchange, which stood last week at a two-year high of 97,396 tons.

Sucden’s estimate underscores the difficulty analysts face in gauging metals demand in China amid increased speculation by retail investors, whose holdings remain outside the reporting framework undertaken by exchanges. Private investors in China also had as much as 20,000 tons of nickel, Goldwyn wrote.

“People who have nothing at all to do with the copper trade have been buying copper as a store of value, much like they would with gold,” said Jiang Mingjun, an analyst at Shanghai Oriental Futures Co.

Copper on the London Metal Exchange has more than doubled this year as China’s 4 trillion yuan ($586 billion) stimulus plan and record $1.1 trillion of lending in the first half spurred purchases of the metal used in construction and autos. The metal traded today at $6,470 a ton, which would value a holding of 50,000 tons at $324 million.

‘Private Stockpiles’

“Private stockpiles, built by many including the much- vaunted, pig-farming speculators, have clearly absorbed substantial quantities of metal,” Sucden’s Goldwyn said. “Much of this metal will remain out of the normal market place.”

Scotia Capital Inc. analyst Liu Na highlighted the role of Chinese pig farmers and other private speculators in the metals markets in an Aug. 17 note that cited reports from state-owned China Central Television. These speculators may become “quick sellers” if sentiment turned, Liu said in that note.

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-17 13:20:21

From 1958-1960 China tried to industrialize by encouraging the people to create steel in backyard furnaces. The melted anything they could get their hands on from woks to tools. The steel was useless. 30 million people starved as a result of diverted farm production and over reported yields.

Wonder if there’s a parallel here? China is focused on hoarding metal and resources. They ruin their environment processing those resources. What’s to say lack of potable water and ample supplies of edible food isn’t in the very near future for the PRC? A mere 50 years later.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 14:59:42

Thanks to… global weather changes, they’re having problems with food production and the desert is increasing.

 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 20:59:27

Sounds like hyperinflation!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:21:14

“Pig(s)… Copper, Nickel”

I term it “anti-hyperinflation diversification.”

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 12:57:46

I am a very tame bear compared to Mr Allmon.

Peter Brimelow

Sept. 17, 2009, 12:08 a.m. EDT

Allmon is out
Commentary: Senior investor all but exits the stock rally

By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — Stocks surge to a new high for the year, but one veteran editor bails out.

Well, “bailing out” is sort of a relative term for Growth Stock Outlook’s octogenarian Charles Allmon. He’s been 75% or more in cash since the Crash of 1987. (Well, it seemed like a Crash at the time.) But his remarkable stock-picking helped keep him a contender — with, of course, some assistance from the Crash of 2008. ( See April 30 column.)

So it was big news when Allmon went to 50% cash on April 15.

His call caught the post-March rally pretty neatly. The rally still seems to be going on, but without Allmon. In his latest letter, he announced the sale of all but three stocks, putting him 82% in cash.

The advantage of all that cash is clear over the longer haul. >b?Over the past 12 months, GSO is up 2.94% against negative 18.45% for the total return Wilshire 5000. Over the past three years, the letter is up 3.08% annualized, versus negative 5.41% annualized for the total return Wilshire.

Over the past five years, the letter has achieved a 4.14% annualized gain, against 1.27% annualized for the total return Wilshire 5000. Over the past 10 years, the letter has achieved a 3.91% annualized gain, as compared to 0.19% annualized for the total return Wilshire.

Allmon doesn’t really give much reason for his decision. He is completely contemptuous of the Obama administration, but that’s not new. ( See June 5, 2008, column.) For the record, he did say back in April that he was hoping to catch a swing up to Dow 9,000-10,000. Maybe that was enough.

Allmon does say (twice in a two-page letter) that he’s still a superbear: “My bear market forecast months ago was Dow 3,000-4,000. That remains valid for the next 31/2 years.

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-09-17 13:31:29

Dude’s an optimist. We’re going to see triple digit Dow.

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-17 13:35:33

That remains valid for the next 3 1/2 years.

Gee I wonder what his motivation is for that statement.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 13:48:38

Sounds like he is sure 3K-4K DJIA is on the way over the next 3 1/2 years, but is not foolish enough to try to pin down the timing.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 14:33:24

Tongue in cheek?

Otherwise - it sounds like after 3.5 years, he plans to potentially end his bear market forecast. Let’s see - what happens 3.5 years from now?

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Comment by Shizo
2009-09-17 16:13:26

“Let’s see - what happens 3.5 years from now?”

I’ll buy a home, maybe…. :)

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 17:44:03

“Let’s see - what happens 3.5 years from now?”

E L E C T I O N!!!!!!!

Do I win a prize packman? :)

 
Comment by packman
2009-09-17 19:55:45

You win the prize.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 12:58:29

CNN Poll: U.S. still in a serious recession
Poll says 86% of Americans believe the U.S. is still in a recession, while Fed chairman is more optimistic.

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Americans are not nearly as optimistic about the economy as the chairman of the Federal Reserve seems to be, a national poll released Thursday shows.

Eighty-six percent of those questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey said they think the United States is still in a recession, with 13% saying the nation’s economic downturn has ended. According to the poll, 42% say the country is in a serious recession, 35% call it a moderate recession, and one in 10 characterize it as a mild recession.

Earlier this week, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said the recession is very likely over, although the job market will continue to struggle for some time.

“Economists have typically called an end to recessions long before the public thinks hard times have passed,” said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “The recession of the early 1990s was officially over by 1991, but a majority of Americans didn’t think the recession was over until late in 1993.”

The poll also suggests that only a small minority, 9%, say their family’s financial situation is better now than it was a year ago. Nearly four in 10 say they’re worse off now than they were a year ago, and just over half said their family’s financial situation was about the same.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 15:01:37

…and the official 10% without jobs have no doubt we’re still in a recession. :lol:

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 13:00:35

Centerpoint developer seeking Chapter 7
Phoenix Business Journal -

Tempe Land Co. LLC, the company that partially developed the Centerpoint high rise in downtown Tempe, is seeking to convert its U.S. Bankruptcy Court filing to Chapter 7.

The motion to convert from a Chapter 11 reorganization to Chapter 7 liquidation was filed Sept. 15.

” The impact of the Motion is that the bankruptcy will be put into the control of a trustee, who will decide how to proceed,” said a statement from Tempe Land. “The adverse financial markets, ongoing conflicts, and continuing costs contributed to the decision.”

The high profile project has been at a standstill since summer 2008 when developers were unable to obtain the estimated $75 million in additional funding needed to complete the $200 million residential and retail project.

The situation became even more dire when the project’s primary lender, Mortgages Ltd., filed for Chapter 11 in mid-summer after the suicide of its founder and sole shareholder Scott Coles. Mortgages Ltd. since emerged from bankruptcy and is under new leadership headed by former state land Commissioner Mark Winkleman. When he spoke recently with the Phoenix Business Journal, Winkleman said the firm would work out new agreements with its borrowers or, if necessary, file foreclosure proceedings on properties secured by the promissory notes the borrowers signed.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 13:17:20

Really, who woulda thunk it? Everyone here has known this for what, several years now.

U.S. “option” mortgages to explode, officials warn.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The federal government and states are girding themselves for the next foreclosure crisis in the country’s housing downturn: payment option adjustable rate mortgages that are beginning to reset.

“Payment option ARMs are about to explode,” Iowa Attorney General Tom Miller said after a Thursday meeting with members of President Barack Obama’s administration to discuss ways to combat mortgage scams.

“That’s the next round of potential foreclosures in our country,” he said.

Option-ARMs are now considered among the riskiest offered during the recent housing boom and have left many borrowers owing more than their homes are worth. These “underwater” mortgages have been a driving force behind rising defaults and mounting foreclosures.

In Arizona, 128,000 of those mortgages will reset over the the next year and many have started to adjust this month, the state’s attorney general, Terry Goddard, told Reuters after the meeting.

“It’s the other shoe,” he said. “I can’t say it’s waiting to drop. It’s dropping now.”

The mortgages differ from other ARMs by offering an option to pay only the interest each month or a low minimum payment that leads to a rising balance in the loan’s principal.

When the balance of the loan reaches a certain level or the mortgage hits a specific date, the borrower must begin making full payments to cover the new amount. The loan’s interest rate also may have been fixed at a low level for the first few years with a so-called teaser rate, but then reset to a higher level.

Because the new monthly payments can be five or 10 times what borrowers are accustomed to paying, they “threaten a much greater hit to the consumer than the subprimes,” Goddard said, referring to the mortgages often extended to less credit-worthy

borrowers that fed the first wave of the financial crisis.

Miller said option-ARMs were discussed at Tuesday’s meeting on mortgage scams, which brought state attorneys general from across the country together with U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Attorney General Eric Holder, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan, and Federal Trade Commission Chairman Jon Leibowitz.

The mortgages tend to be “jumbo,” or for significantly large amounts, Goddard said, making it even harder for borrowers to sidestep foreclosure. He said he expected to see an increase in scams as distressed homeowners become more desperate to refinance big debts.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 17:38:12

Does reading about the looming resets ever give anyone else besides me a similar sensation to what one might experience on watching a large asteroid approaching the earth on an inexorable trajectory of destruction? Or are we just looking at another “closely watched pot” here which, by definition almost, “can never boil over”?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 17:39:19

“He said he expected to see an increase in scams as distressed homeowners become more desperate to refinance big debts.”

And I expect to see top government officials try their best to turn a blind eye to these scams.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-09-17 18:31:43

Wow! 128,000 in Arizona. My guess is 50,000 of them in Phoenix. I would anticipate 100,000 MLS listings in Phoenix in 2011 or 2012 and major price drops for a roof over your head.

Expand this into California and Nevada and we’ll see more economic distress.

Double dip recession. Unemployment level of 10% seems bad. Wait till all these resets finish.

20% unemployment?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 19:53:20

Not clear how the reset problem will drive unemployment to 20%?

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 13:26:33

“It’s the other shoe,” he said. “I can’t say it’s waiting to drop. It’s dropping now.”

LOL, Hey mister official it’s more like an anvil that’s dropping.

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 13:37:16

It’s amazing how Mr. Market keeps sidestepping these “other shoes” dropping. He’s quite a dancer.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 17:51:02

“It’s amazing how Mr. Market keeps sidestepping these “other shoes” dropping”

Fellow Texans, I am proudly standing here to humbly see.
I assure you, and I mean it- Now, who says I don’t speak out as plain as day?
And, fellow Texans, I’m for progress and the flag- long may it fly.
I’m a poor boy, come to greatness. So, it follows that I cannot tell a lie.

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don’t-
I’ve come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,
cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

Now my good friends, it behooves me to be solemn and declare,
I’m for goodness and for profit and for living clean and saying daily prayer.
And now, my good friends, you can sleep nights, I’ll continue to stand tall.
You can trust me, for I promise, I shall keep a watchful eye upon ya’ll…

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don’t-
I’ve come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,
cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

Now, Miss Mona, I don’t know her, though I’ve heard the name, oh yes.
But, of course I’ve no close contact, so what she is doing I can only guess.
And now, Miss Mona, she’s a blemish on the face of that good town.
I am taking certain steps here, someone somewhere’s gonna have to close her down.

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep, now they see me now they don’t-
I’ve come and gone and, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step,
cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

Ooh I love to dance a little sidestep…

And, ooh I love to sweep around the wide step…

Cut a little swathe and lead the people on.

Lyrics by Dolly Parton
Sung by Charles Durning
Movie: The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-17 18:07:22

I love that scene!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 14:45:58

You can wear anvils as shoes?! Super! Yet another footwear option I shall fully embrace. Just think how much anvil shoes would hurt, if I were to trample someone who deserved it, say, if I were to make a visit to the master builders offices, for example.

*lapses into happy daydream *

…Of course, they’d have to be cute anvils. With sparkles here and there.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 15:03:53

Make sure they are the “ACME” brand. Accept no substitutes!

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:48:09

The ones that can walk on air for a few seconds?

I would give a LOT to see a cartoon rendition of that poor hard-working coyote eating a delicious grilled road-runner.
That used to make me super mad. Of course, I didn’t watch too much teevee, so I took it all too seriously when I did get to watch teevee.
But still, I would give a lot.

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 13:38:14

DennisN, is it possible for a dealer to purchase a particular shotgun out of state (ID) and have it shipped to CA using a CA dealer as the transfer agent?

Comment by DennisN
2009-09-17 13:54:59

Depends upon whether the shotgun in question is legal in CA.

Take a gander here at the CA AG’s rulebook.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

You need to find a Type 01 FFL dealer who’s willing to do this. Many won’t since it’s a big bother and there is some limit to how much they can charge for the service - IIRC $15 or so.

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 14:42:15

Thanks man, its for a friend naturally. He saw this Cobra? thing and thought it was really cool and better than the Mossberg but he can’t find anyone at the chains who will order it for less than double list.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:27:37

its for a friend

Naturally. We know you don’t wander around with guns.

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 16:06:26

Nope, I only go armed with purpose.

 
Comment by Shizo
2009-09-17 16:20:34

Saiga- 20 round barrel clip. The Russians did one thing right. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 18:15:41

I want a drum clip for my 12 gauge sooooo bad. I want to avoid jail time sooooooooooo bad.

 
 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-09-17 14:01:38

It depends upon whether that shotgun is legal in CA….

Check out the CA AG rulebook here. It’s a “cliff’s notes” version of the CA firearms laws.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

The biggest problem will be finding a type 01 FFL dealer who’s willing to process it for you. It’s a big hassle and they can’t charge much for it by statute - IIRC only $15 or thereabouts.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 14:16:13

I’m not DennisN, but I think that’s completely legal. Dealers can buy and sell from each other nationwide. The only thing that matters is that the retail customer purchasing the gun has valid identification in the state which they are purchasing it. If I have a WA ID, I can only take delivery of the gun in WA. I can purchase a gun in any state in the country, but it must be shipped to a WA dealer who acts as the transfer agent and verifies my ID for the exchange.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 14:22:57

I missed that it was a “shotgun”. I was thinking handguns. I think you can purchase that directly from the ID dealer without even involving a CA dealer, right?

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 14:27:02

Upon further inspection, the shotgun must be purchased in person by yourself, or shipped to a dealer in CA.

Comment by dude
2009-09-17 18:19:53

One time… in Idaho… the gun store owner wouldn’t sell me a shotgun because I was Caleefornion.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 19:51:13

That’s surprising. Federal laws don’t prohibit such. I’d think they’d want any sale they could get. Hmmm.

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Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 14:49:29

DennisN, is it possible for a dealer to purchase a particular shotgun out of state (ID) and have it shipped to CA using a CA dealer as the transfer agent?

Goin’ realtor huntin’?

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 15:32:19

Well, don’t touch them after you bag them. Leave ‘em lie. Normally I deplore wasteful behavior in a sportsperson, but Realtors™ have cooties, first of all, and also their meat is laden with chemicals and plastic implants and thingies.
Oh yeah—and the hides are generally of very poor quality, is what I hear.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 17:30:25

“Oh yeah—and the hides are generally of very poor quality, is what I hear.”

Perhaps that skin, tough as a buffalo’s hide from years spent in tanning booths, is useful for something?

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Comment by DennisN
2009-09-17 19:12:50

Tan me hide when I’m dead, Fred
Tan me hide when I’m dead…
So we tanned his hide when he died, Clyde,
And that’s it a-hanging on the shed!

All together now…
Tie me kangaroo down sport…..

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 19:22:15

harvest those organs! :smile:

 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:41:00

+1, more work for me and my industry.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 18:18:14

I believe in Realtor conservation so we can point and laugh at them in later years when they ask, “Do you want fries with that?”

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Comment by DennisN
2009-09-17 18:54:18

Moving to Idaho from California has certain advantages…

http://www.impactguns.com/store/machineguns.html

My local Impact Gun store - just down the street - is licensed to sell Class 3 guns, e.g. full-auto machine guns, flame throwers, grenade launchers, silencers, etc.

Is this a great state, or what? :lol:

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 19:24:48

make a good Columbine! (oops–I mean God Bless America!)

 
Comment by shizo
2009-09-17 21:50:56

I LOVE IDAHO!!!!

Comment by shizo
2009-09-17 21:51:59

(you’ll hate it… don’t move here)

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Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:12:03

I love Idaho for about three months a year. For the first 19 years of my life I was pretty miserable there for months on end during pre/deep/post/slush phases of winter. Boise is probably nicer weather wise than the upper Snake river valley, but its, uh, Boise.

 
 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-09-18 00:44:58

Good grief Dennis! Look at the prices. Many of those are cheap & inaccurate spray guns with stamped parts, like the Uzi. What would be the fun in owning something like that? You would go broke paying for ammo. Guess you could keep it around just in case of a Red Dawn scenario. But, without Patrick to lead us, the Wolverines would be nothing.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-09-17 22:23:48

Thanks again all for the responses, it actually is for a friend and I’ll pass it along.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 14:04:15

I’m no computer guru, and I’ve noticed that when I am viewing the HBB using Firefox, my system resources are, oftentimes, maxed out at 100%. In turn, my computer is so sluggish I can barely do anything. I’m running Windows Vista. The only thing that sometimes helps is to close the HBB, and re-start Firefox. Invariably, it happens again and again. Is anyone else having this problem?

Comment by packman
2009-09-17 14:34:35

I’m running Windows Vista.

I think I’ve found your problem.

Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 15:44:56

I think I’ve found your problem.

“Chuckle”

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-17 18:09:43

:-)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:18:33

Ya mean he has a virus?

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-17 14:43:00

Dam*mit! Yes, I am!

*roars like an enraged Grizzly Bear *

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 15:09:03

Clear your cache. This helps. Also, the ads and Google Analytics make the pages drag. (I could bore you to death with the details)

But these are Ben’s revenue streams and so they can’t and shouldn’t be eliminated.

Some blog software is not totally standards compliant and is often optimized for IE.

Also, make sure FF is updated. Current version is 3.5.3 and make sure your Java and Flash is updated.

Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 19:27:52

I cleared my cache this morning, with my first cuppa. Again? Well, I’ll try…

 
 
Comment by yensoy
2009-09-17 15:24:01

This maybe your problem:
http://sharepoint/sites/quests/Quest%20Trend%20Series%20%20Presentations/Forms/AllItems.aspx

More than half of all Firefox users ran an unsafe version of Adobe’s Flash Player, according to statistics collected last week as users installed the latest release of the popular open-source browser.

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-09-17 15:37:38

The only thing that sometimes helps is to close the HBB, and re-start Firefox.

You might try upgrading to a new version of Firefox. FF has had memory various leak problems since it was called Netscape Navigator.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-09-17 16:11:16

You may have a virus. Go to C-Net and download one of the free anti-virus softwares like AVG.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-09-17 18:42:22

Or Avast Free Home Edition. (my preference)

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 19:56:32

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I routinely clear the cache. It’s not a virus- I’ve already scanned my computer and always have PC Tools AV software running. I also have the latest version of Firefox. If I had to blame it on something, it’d be the browser. Firefox LOVES to crash, and do all sorts of other weird things. It’s way beyond my grasp, so I’ll just grin and bear it.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-17 22:02:14

I upgraded my ram from 512mb to 1.5 GB and that helped a lot. But firefox does suck up memory the longer you use it..

Also mine slows down on all the heavy flash stuff on myspace, my page loads in no problem…but the bands seem to thing all those picture boxes and surveys and animation is good for business but its NOT….unless you have the latest computer.

 
 
Comment by Paul Mayson
2009-09-17 14:15:36

The bank is what? A group of people. When a bank fails those people are not held accountable. They don’t lose their home. They don’t lose their savings. The bank closes or is absorbed by another bank. The group just moves onto other investments, start up a new bank. They still live a good life. There is no accountability unless there were elements of crime that can be proven. In most cases there are no consequences to pay. As long as you have the government backing you up and the rules can be manipulated it is business as usual.

I just want to buy one house at what I consider is an honest and fair price. One that will not devalue 5 years down the road, when all corrects. Is that possible or should I just keep renting?

Comment by exeter
2009-09-17 15:09:09

Keep renting.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 16:00:07

sure it’s possible.. there’s always a super deal somewhere, or will be tomorrow morning. It just depends on how much work you want to put into the search.
Do you know enough about RE in general and your area specifically to detect a property that (probably) won’t lose value if it was standing right in front of you?

Best thing is to have someone working for you, but not just anyone.
Good buyer’s agents are always very busy making money for good clients. They are harder to find than is that perfect property everyone’s searching for.

If you find one, tell him/her exactly what you want, where you want it, the price you’re ready to pay.. ready meaning the moment he calls and says he’s got it. Delay an hour and it’ll probably be sold to one of his other clients.
Be specific and convince him you’re committed. Don’t try and mess with those guys. A good one can see right through people.
——–

Personally, I don’t think it’s worth the effort. Prices will continue to fall. Ever more inventory will be available. Ever fewer qualified buyers will have their pick of zillions of properties at rock bottom prices.. and renting a little while longer ain’t so bad.

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-09-17 18:06:42

A realturd lover on HBB?????wow!

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-09-17 19:37:28

That’s me.. a lover among haters.

You might hate dentists, and that’s ok with me, but i don’t recommend you try to fix your own teeth. A man’s gotta know his limitations.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:16:06

Luckily dentists have to go to school to earn their credentials, and most are fairly bright and even honest to boot.

 
 
 
 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-17 19:29:47

a fine whine, Paul Mayson

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 14:39:25

Peter Shift is on the business channel right now stating what the solutions
are . He is right on . Hope he makes it to the Senate .

Comment by Mark
2009-09-17 17:07:31

test

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-17 18:25:32

“World Wrestling Entertainment put the word out last month that Linda McMahon was considering a run for the US Senate representing her home state of Connecticut, and today she made it official. ”

IIRC, she’s the big wigs wife. Peter mentioned she has $25M to run. Peter is who we need to win, but good luck trying to beat a well funded candidate.

Peter mentioned he needed $20M to run. Wow, this country is doomed. Look at the cost of a Senate seat.

Comment by ahansen
2009-09-17 23:26:15

O. M. G.

First Jesse, then Ahnode, now McMahon?
At least George Murphy knew how to tap dance. Sigh.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-09-17 16:03:06

Taint Enough…

MBA: Mortgage bankers’ profits skyrocket 635%
South Florida Business Journal

Mortgage bankers realized a 635 percent increase in the amount of profit made on each loan they originated in the first quarter of this year, versus the fourth quarter of last year, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association.

The average profit on each loan origination in the first quarter was $1,088, up from $148 per loan origination in the previous quarter.

“It is clear the refinance boom in the first quarter of 2009 contributed greatly to an increase in overall production volumes, allowing production operating expenses per loan to finally drop,” said Marina Walsh, MBA’s associate VP of industry analysis, in a news release.

“The average share of refinancings to total originations for these companies jumped to 66 percent in the first quarter from 42 percent in the previous quarter,” she said. “As a result, the average production volume for each firm was $213.9 million in the first quarter of 2009 compared to $125.6 million in the fourth quarter of 2008.”

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 16:54:14

Everything I hear is recovery, recovery, recovery, yet there are innumerable areas within this country where the housing bubble is still near it’s peak, and where price crashes and the subsequent damage to balance sheets are inevitable. Aside from wage inflation, there is simply no way to prop up these prices. These paltry tax credits do little to help people qualify for homes based on current prices and incomes. Am I missing something? Who are all of these people qualifying for high priced homes right now?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 17:53:09

Here’s one for you the median price of housing in the San Francisco Bay Area has dropped 9%. Not too much recovery here.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 18:18:24

Perhaps you misunderstood me as I’m not the one touting recovery. I’m wondering what information the “experts” refer to when they spout off about “green shoots”, etc. Also, I’m starting to wonder if there is, indeed, “pent up demand” for housing as this “dough for dumps” program is delivering surprising (to me) results as did the “cash for clunkers” giveaway.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-17 20:42:18

You misunderstood me. My posting was showing my agreement with you. Stop being so Grizzlie :)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 18:50:25

“Am I missing something?”

The all-out effort by the PTB to reflate the bubble.

The $10t question: CAN THEY DO IT?

Comment by mikey
2009-09-17 19:15:06

The all-out effort by the PTB to reflate the bubble.

The $10t question: CAN THEY DO IT?

The $64 question is: CAN THEY MAKE the sheepile BELIEVE…

that the Bubble is Back, the Good Times Flowing and Everyone is RICH Again ?
:)

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 19:41:04

They can make the sheepile believe, so long as real estate keeps on always going up again. But a ginormous pile of shadow inventory plus those looming option ARM resets looming over slack demand in the worst job market since at least the early 1980s if not earlier which call into question whether real estate can keep on going up from here.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 16:57:49

*kicking the spam filter in the goods*

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-09-17 19:25:01

Just want to say Health co=ops are not the answer IMHO …..Co-ops would go BK quickly because all the high risk would go to those and it would give a windfall to Insurance Companies and others .

Why doesn’t the government just mandate by new law that Private Insurance Companies can’t make more than a 2% to 5 % profit ,over and above operating costs , and they are not allowed to cancel for pre-existing or any other rationing ? The government changed contract law after the fact ,so
why not change Health Insurance Companies into low or non-profit ?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 19:50:57

SIL and hubby have an offer on a house (in BumFark, TX or somesuch forlorn place), in order to capitalize on the $8K credit “before it expires.” Apparently my lovely wife e-mailed SIL’s hubby to inform him of my disapproval. I told her I frankly don’t care what they do.

But from an objective standpoint, this does not seem to be the time to buy. For starters, if the $8K credit does happen to expire (with Dough-4-Dumps going the way of Cash-4-Clunkers), we could very quickly learn just how much of that $8K was capitalized into prices — I am guessing all of it, and then some, due to the herd effect of clueless fence sitters who were collectively led into the market at the same time, sparking bid wars at the bottom.

More importantly, the govt has a full-court press on with respect to myriad artificial measures to prop up housing prices. If any of the props prove to be unsustainable (e.g., super-low interest rates thanks to Fed MBS purchases which cannot withstand further punishment to the inflationary implications of the dollar’s plummeting value), leading the underpinnings of demand to revert to historical norms, the legs under demand could collapse, revealing housing’s false bottom to be a temporarily high plateau.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 20:00:22

The Chinese property bubble has spilled over into Hong Kong. When this bubble bursts, it will make the US bubble collapse look like a popping soap bubble.

Financial Times
Hong Kong flats for sale at record price

By Justine Lau in Hong Kong and Daniel Thomas in London

Published: September 17 2009 19:24 | Last updated: September 17 2009 19:24

Two new luxury flats in Hong Kong have been put on the market for a record per square foot price of HK$75,000 (US$9,640) as the buoyant economy and stock markets on the Chinese mainland lift demand for exclusive properties beyond pre-crisis levels.

Sun Hung Kai Properties, the world’s biggest developer by market value, aims to sell the three-storey apartments – on the 91st to 93rd floors of twin 270m towers – for HK$300m each, HK$50m more than previously priced.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-17 20:49:50

“The Chinese property bubble has spilled over into Hong Kong. When this bubble bursts, it will make the US bubble collapse look like a popping soap bubble.”

This I’d like to see.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 22:14:21

Patience, fellow ursine.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 23:32:47

MAYBE YOU WON’T HAVE TO BE SO PATIENT, AFTER ALL. CLEAR THE DECKS — I THINK THIS BUBBLE IS GOING TO BLOW!

HK property shares at risk

Analysts warn real-estate bubble likely forming

Ample liquidity and low interest rates push Hong Kong property prices toward last year’s record highs, but real-estate and developer stocks may dive if money from mainland China dries up.

• Hong Kong central banker sounds home-loan alarm

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 20:13:40

The Fed thinks and acts as though it is above the Constitution. But Enquiring minds want to know!

Another mystery: By what sort of financial alchemy is money created out of thin air? I call BS on this whole concept. What the Fed did was to issue paper claims on wealth and transfer them (through zero interest loans) to Megabank, Inc with no strings attached. These loans were generally only made available to members of the too-big-to-fail club, in order to give them an unfair advantage over small business and US households. A full audit of the Fed is needed to explore whether this is the case.

* THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
* OPINION
* SEPTEMBER 17, 2009, 10:25 P.M. ET

Transparency and the Fed
Taxpayers have a right to know where all the bailout money went.

By MATTHEW WINKLER

Facing a banking collapse that was unlike anything it had seen since the Great Depression, the Federal Reserve created $2 trillion of assets and debts during the past year to rescue the nation’s financial institutions. But it did not make clear to taxpayers just where all of this money went. Taxpayers—involuntary investors in this case—have a right to know who received loans, in what amounts, for which collateral, and why specific loans were made.

The Fed says taxpayers don’t have the right to know these things. What’s more, it went to court to resist giving an accounting of its actions under the Freedom of Information Act. The request was filed by Bloomberg News through its parent, Bloomberg LP.

Last month, Chief U.S. District Judge Loretta A. Preska in Manhattan disagreed with the Fed. In a 47-page ruling, she found that the facts and the law require the central bank to release its lending records. The Fed is now considering whether to appeal her ruling.

The Fed says it can’t give up the documents without stigmatizing banks and frightening customers into yanking their deposits. There is no evidence to support such an assertion, and recent events show that the opposite is true. When Citigroup Inc. in November received a government rescue package that shielded it from losses on toxic debt and injected $20 billion of capital, Citigroup shares soared 58% in New York trading. About the same time, E*Trade Financial Corp., the No. 4 online brokerage by client assets, surged 50% (the most in 12 years) after saying it was “optimistic” about receiving taxpayer funds under the government’s Troubled Asset Relief Program.

Since its creation in 1913, the Fed has been the watchdog over our money. Now it is running interference for banks that borrowed our money, and went so far as to insist to a federal judge that the public shouldn’t worry about what it does with our money.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-09-17 23:44:41

Dumb prediction:

Now that the US has its bubble trouble so very well under control, the next major financial upheaval will come from the Chinese bubble’s demise. That is when the decoupling theory will get its real test :-)

 
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