Bits Bucket For September 26, 2009
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
Location:Northern Arizona, United States
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NOPE..Not first
open house down the street i ‘ll go make a jerk out of myself today…such little things in life make me happy
Do they offer free food? If so, please eat as much as possible, before telling the UHS you are not in the market for buying a home.
The best open houses are the “Broker” ones, where the food comes from the Deli or is catered. The house might be cr*p, but they’ll try and impress each other by how good the spread is.
Do they offer free food? If so, please eat as much as possible, before telling the UHS you are not in the market for buying a home.
Leaving behind a plugged toilet always sends a nice message to the REICsters.
Right. Use lots and lots of toilet paper, flush, and quickly exit the premises before the toilet overflows. Better yet, if there is a box of facial tissues in the bathroom, use those…
First tissues, then dump, then several flushes.
Or just pee in a closet or something (more amenable to men I suppose.)
An “upper decker” is always a nice touch.
So you’re actively advocating sabotaging the flush stop, eh?
OK, this should appeal to the geeky engineers on the board. The rest will be mystified.
more amenable to men I suppose.
Don’t be so genderist, Mr. Man. I won’t even tell you where I manage to pee, once I set my mind to it. It would shock even you.
Dang — I can’t stand suspense like this…my imagination is running wild!
I’ll say if for you.
aNYCdj is first!!!!!!!
There. Who wants to grow up
Not me!!!
Where ya been, pal? I could have used some politically incorrect statements to defuse the onslaught of personal attacks last weekend when I dared to suggest CRA may have had something to do with the housing disaster at hand.
I missed the thread. CRA?
Community Reinvestment Act?
I was just about to send you an email to check if you were okay.
Glad to see you posting.
Please do not inherit my mom’s tendencies.
If I haven’t called her in a while — we’re talking one week here not even a month, just for the record — it’s like, “are you ill? are you dying? do you have cancer?”
So I just tell her, “Yeah mom, I’ve died. This is my ghost calling.”
Sheesh.
Naw, I would dare inheirt your mom’s tendencies.
Just missed your spicy smack downs.
it’s like, “are you ill? are you dying?
Sounds like mine.
open house down the street i ‘ll go make a jerk out of myself today
Be sure to report back!
He isn’t back yet. Must have bought something and is signing all those papers. Bummer. Will we ever know what the open house was like? Or will we be hearing the jangling of keys?
Time to fire up the SECOND pot of coffee.
Or time to down the second drink, in this part of the world.
It’s always five o’ clock somewhere!
HIC
“Or time to down the second drink, in this part of the world.”
Morning time there too, huh?
giggle
Some people seem to view the foreclosure crisis as a veritable “new gold rush” — the chance to snap up real estate investments at fire sale prices in the hopes of a quick flip when the economy recovers. I personally find this kind of thinking highly offensive.
How about if instead of focusing on opportunities for investors to profit off the losses of others, we instead change the subject to ask how our banking system transformed itself into a cannibalistic institutional structure which put so many American households on to the path to financial ruin? Perhaps if we can figure out where laws were broken, and justly punish the perpetrators on a scale commensurate with their crimes against society, then we can avoid a rerun of the situation for at least the next century, as those who might consider the potential financial gains to a rerun of the bubble would have to also consider the risk of punishment?
“Perhaps if we can figure out where laws were broken…”
I tell ya Mr. Bear, those Bankers are clever, clever, clever. They even have clever motto’s:
B of A: “We’re your bank of opportunity!”
The Spider and the Fly
An Apologue.
A New Version Of An Old Story.
Will you walk into my parlour?” said the Spider to the Fly,
‘Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I’ve a many curious things to shew when you are there.”
Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne’er come down again.”
“I’m sure you must be weary, dear, with soaring up so high;
Will you rest upon my little bed?” said the Spider to the Fly.
“There are pretty curtains drawn around; the sheets are fine and thin,
And if you like to rest awhile, I’ll snugly tuck you in!”
Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “for I’ve often heard it said,
They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!”
Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, ” Dear friend what can I do,
To prove the warm affection I ‘ve always felt for you?
I have within my pantry, good store of all that’s nice;
I’m sure you’re very welcome — will you please to take a slice?”
“Oh no, no,” said the little Fly, “kind Sir, that cannot be,
I’ve heard what’s in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!”
“Sweet creature!” said the Spider, “you’re witty and you’re wise,
How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes!
I’ve a little looking-glass upon my parlour shelf,
If you’ll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself.”
“I thank you, gentle sir,” she said, “for what you ‘re pleased to say,
And bidding you good morning now, I’ll call another day.”
The Spider turned him round about, and went into his den,
For well he knew the silly Fly would soon come back again:
So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly,
And set his table ready, to dine upon the Fly.
Then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing,
“Come hither, hither, pretty Fly, with the pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple — there’s a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead!”
Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew,
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue –
Thinking only of her crested head — poor foolish thing! At last,
Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast.
He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den,
Within his little parlour — but she ne’er came out again!
And now dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly flattering words, I pray you ne’er give heed:
Unto an evil counsellor, close heart and ear and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly.
by Mary Howitt 1821.
Or the shorter version by Woody Guthrie:
“Some will rob you by six-gun; some with a fountain pen.”
Wouldn’t the spider be convicted as a murderer in a society which was subject to a rule of law?
Nope. He’d have an ad in the yellow pages promoting himself as an exterminator.
Or a commerical on TV for RAID
So, on NPR they had a story of a US soldier that was losing his home…on the application he listed his annual income as apprx $37,000…the “broker” listed his income as $16,200.00 PER MONTH on the “submitted” loan paper applications…
So, back to laws and punishment:
A. The “broker” is in the “big house” simply because he did this fraudulent act x1..and was caught & punished.
B. The “broker” is living comfortably in HIS “big house” purchased with the fee $$$$$ proceeds for x172 other similar fraudulent loan submissions and is considering writing a “self-help” book for on how to avoid real estate fraud.
C. The “broker” is long gone, moved out of state, and is currently getting Gov’t education loans to remake his career path and become a worthy US citizen contributing to the general welfare of America.
D. The “broker” has been struck down by lightning.
E. The “broker” felt terrible pains of guilt, fell on his knees at an evangelical sermon, repented his ways, join the Peace Corps and is currently living in Honduras doing good deeds for that countries poor.
F. The “broker”joined the “National Guard” and is currently helping to establish “democracy” in Afghanistan.
the “broker” listed his income as $16,200.00 PER MONTH on the “submitted” loan paper applications…
The military have pay stubs that show exactly how much a month they make. If they listed his status as active military, I find it hard to believe a bank wouldnt ask for these. If it was VA, commander’s have to verify the soldier is eligible for the VA benefit. I’m not saying it couldnt happen, and I dont mean to be nasty, but it doesnt sound right to me and your bias is showing. If you could, please provide a link so I could show it to my soldiers to illustrate what NOT to do…
Most commands have aggresive programs now warning military member’s against doing fraudulent applications and if found out, I wouldnt want to be in this military member’s place.
The “broker”joined the “National Guard” and is currently helping to establish “democracy” in Afghanistan.
Rest assured, it looks alot different from here. I dont know what you are implying from this last quote, but I can tell you, we are helping this young Islamic Republic in the beginnings of their democracy. If you havent already, you should come here and see for yourself instead of listening to biased radio, if you havent been here already…
“If you could, please provide a link so I could show it to my soldiers to illustrate what NOT to do…”
ehhh…. There are no soldiers in the US ChairForce so lets be clear about that. They’re called airmen but this you would know because after all you stated you’re an officer in the chairforce.
step2,
One of the banks we chatted with about mortgages told us they don’t have their clients fill out applications. They ask for the information and fill out the paperwork themselves. I really couldn’t help but jump to the conclusion that the lo’s might have thrown a few mistakes in that paperwork for those who couldn’t quite clear the hurdles on their own. I caught the l.o. in a few weazly moments and we’re now avoiding that particular establishment.
So maybe the soldiers didn’t intentionally misrepresent anything, just forgot to look closely enough when signing. You can provide supporting documentation but we have in the past heard stories of obvious white-out patches found on this paperwork and other info substituted after it was submitted.
I dont know what you are implying from this last quote, but I can tell you, we are helping this young Islamic Republic in the beginnings of their democracy. If you havent already, you should come here and see for yourself instead of listening to biased radio, if you havent been here already…
Assuming everything you say is correct, please inform me exactly what clause in the Constitution authorizes the US government to “help … in the beginnings of their democracy”. Absent that, if anyone wants to do that on his own time and money, fine, but it is not the business of the US government and the US taxpayer.
But as long as Americans willingly volunteer to get shot at, I’m all for that.
——————————————
but it is not the business of the US government and the US taxpayer.
No matter the overwhelming evidence that is was the banks/mortgage companies/lenders that created AND APPROVED the liars loans, we should still blame the FB.
Stpn2me, here’s one of wmbz’s favorite people that he likes to quote:
“…He claims that America’s foreign policy exploits are tantamount to the establishment of an empire, and the price of maintaining such an empire could accelerate America’s eventual decline.” ~Bill Bonner
“…your bias is showing”
Yes, I’m biased…I do not believe in Cheney-Shrub’s “Shazam-Islam-is -now-democracy!” world policy view. I also like the Boston Celtics & UCLA Basketball teams.
ut it is not the business of the US government and the US taxpayer.to “help establish someone elses ‘democracy’.
Period.
Ditto and ditto again.
Perhaps if we can figure out where laws were broken, and justly punish the perpetrators on a scale commensurate with their crimes against society, then we can avoid a rerun of the situation for at least the next century
PB, this scenario is appealing, but I don’t think it ever can or will happen. It’s too massive an undertaking and fraught w/moral ambiguity. It’d be like trying to assign blame individually and punish everyone responsible for slavery.
A better project IMO would be to work on building a system going forward that would deny anyone the OPPORTUNITY for massive theft, but give everyone a chance to succeed based on talent and effort.
Sounds like a society based on free market economics and rule of law. A far cry from our current society.
“PB, this scenario is appealing, but I don’t think it ever can or will happen.”
If enough others adopt your tolerant attitude towards high crimes and felonies, then history will prove you to be correct.
A more optimistic view is that prison time may only be needed for a few of the most heinous perpetrators of the financial disaster, in order to stamp out the massive moral hazard problem facing future generations of financiers who may otherwise be tempted to try their hands at financially engineering systemic crises. The Fed’s hasty financial rescue has weakened the impetus for justice to be meted out to the highly deserving masters of disaster capitalism.
If enough others adopt your tolerant attitude towards high crimes and felonies, then history will prove you to be correct.
PB, I’m not tolerant towards high crimes and felonies. I simply think that the scale of the problem, along with the obscurity and technicality of the laws that were violated, means that it’s just asking too much of any justice system to respond appropriately.
By the way, one major RE firm has told their re ‘don’t bother going to BofA as they aren’t giving home loans’. Just dont’ bother at all.
Well, there ya have it, BofA got theirs.
Laws are respected and obeyed by law abiding people, and those people hold the law in high regard.
Criminals have a completely different view of the law.
Criminals laugh at the law and are hardly deterred by the threat of punishment. They certainly don’t think they’ll get caught. If they did they wouldn’t do the crime.
People who believe some law protects them are vulnerable to being a victim because they let down their guard… if they had any guard in the first place.
The only thing that protects people is themselves. Laws, courts and cops get involved only after a person has been victimized.
Write all the laws you like.. punish all the people you like.. but good citizens will continue to be taken advantage of unless they grow up, wise up, and stop relying on laws or govt or cops or anything else to shield them from evil.
lock your door.. count your change.. buyer beware… don’t sign anything you don’t understand.. if it seems too good to be true, it is.. Basic wisdom passed down through the ages.. ignore it at your peril.
buyer bewareCaveat creditor.
Especially outlaw banksters…the law will catch up with you people if there is any justice in this world. I will throw a party in honor of the first bankster to go to prison for housing bubble misdeeds.
Done. Google it. In fact many have already been convicted. Many more to come.
Mr. Cole was 1 1/2 years old when he Meet Mr. Moore speaking in San Diego at a local school…can I invite him to your party Mr. Bear?
Michael Moore’s new target: ‘Capitalism’ itself:
“…He surrounds all of Wall Street with yellow “crime scene” tape to emphasize his low opinion of the area’s activities, and he drives an armored car up to AIG’s corporate headquarters, demanding that the company return federal bailout funds.”
“The main point Moore wants to make — the thing that drives him craziest — is his notion that capitalism, far from being a system that rewards excellence, is a scheme set up to make a profit on absolutely anything, a system that has turned American society into a culture that says money is the only value.”
While I think Michael Moore is over the top and would do better with less bombast and more facts, he does have the basic premise right…
A society that puts a price on everything values nothing.
Michael Moore lives in Tribeca, just for the record, the toniest-of-tony neighborhoods for the noveau-riche in Manhattan. His kids go to private school.
Just a detail that the hoi polloi may not have noticed. But they are such @ss-m_nches that you should make money off of them as best as you can!
PS :- I’m a liberal.
Yeah, that too. He ain’t no ascetic monk with vows of poverty, that’s for sure!
Or to put your argument and mine together, his job is to extract money out of the non-thinking liberal population by appealing to their emotions rather than facts.
In short, pretend outrage for the hoi polloi; real caviar for his kids.
Nice job if you can get it.
Now FPSS, let’s be fair…he has not ALWAYS lived in “Tribeca, just for the record, the toniest-of-tony neighborhoods for the noveau-riche in Manhattan”
“Moore was born in Flint, Michigan and raised in Davison, a suburb of Flint, to parents Veronica, a secretary, and Frank Moore, an automotive assembly-line worker. At that time, the city of Flint was home to many General Motors factories, where his parents and grandfather worked. His uncle was one of the founders of the United Automobile Workers labor union and participated in the Flint Sit-Down Strike. Moore has described his parents as “Irish Catholic Democrats, basic liberal good people.”
What fools these mortals be.
*****giggle*****
the basic premise right…
A society that puts a price on everything values nothing.
“Done. Google it. In fact many have already been convicted. Many more to come.”
Great. I think we need a bankster perp walk thread, just so we can revel in justice being served. But I am still not very happy to see so many of the subprime mortgage lending kingpins escaping the reach of the law. When are the kingpins going to get fitted for orange prison jump suits? I may never get past the anger phase of the housing bubble stages of grief if I don’t see at least a few of the biggest fish behind bars.
“Perhaps if we can figure out where laws were broken, and justly punish the perpetrators on a scale commensurate with their crimes against society, then we can avoid a rerun of the situation for at least the next century, as those who might consider the potential financial gains to a rerun of the bubble would have to also consider the risk of punishment?”
+5m^3
Signs of recovery abound here in Monterey County:
1: Whole blocks of commercial real estate empty
2: Prime business locations in Carmel now being filled by
real estate companies
3: More businesses closing their doors in Monterey, PG and
Carmel
4: More cars running around with the donut spar on rather
than purchasing a replacement tire
5: More businesses in Carmel and Monterey being replaced
by low end tourist junk shops
6: High end jewelry shops in Carmel pawning a new look,
thin strands of gold with semiprecious or lower quality
stones.
7: Merchants saying a lot of traffic and no buyers
Yep things are looking real great.the media is making it sound like everything is peechee and we are in a new bull market.I think they are are quite wrong myself.Get ready for a major pullback in this rigged stock market.
On another blog the other day somebody asked me if I am seeing empty spaces rented out temporarily for such things as art sales. I hadn’t paid attention. Then the next day I noticed a space that was newly renovated on the corner of 43rd Street and 3rd Avenue was filled with artwork. It took forever to renovate that space so I thought maybe they had done it to turn it into an art gallery. Nope. On the door is a sign that reads, “Recession Art Special”. This is clearly a temporary use. I have heard many tales of artists being hit hard during this recession.
Across the street from us a small store has sat empty for about a year. It looked like it was going to become a clothing store. That is not the case. The Haddad trucks pulled up yesterday. It was just being dressed up like a clothing store so something could be filmed there. I bet it is empty once again by the middle of this week.
Some hotels rent rooms by the hour. New York City is renting businesses by the hour. Thank god CNBC told me the recession is over. Well, I’m off to the market. I have to enjoy the last of the farmers market fresh produce. I will be doing some salsa making, knowing everything that goes into my stomach.
Went to an estate sale yesterday in a space formerly occupied by a Re-Max office. It was a five-family estate sale, usually the estate sales are held on-site at the home of whatever retiree bit the biscuit or moved into assisted living/nursing home. Didn’t buy a thing, it was mostly crap. I’m thinking it was stuff the estate sale company had in storage or something, leftovers from other sales.
Weird, though, they’ve never had a sale in a commercial space like that before.
Kind of a cool idea, save for one thing, you have to move your old crapola there and whatevers left..back again. Unless you call the SalvationGoodwills to pick up immediately after. Cause the clean up is the hardest thing. You are tired and you don’t want that stuff again. That was why you put it out for sale.
I was talking to one of the estate sale company workers and they said that was the hardest part, getting the stuff to the space. Everything was nicely displayed, I suppose that made it look less crappy and the air conditioning was nice (it’s still nasty hot here in Fla, September is the worst). Most of the folks who put on the estate sales call a liquidator in to hoover up the scraps. LOL, I’ve figured out who one of the liquidators is, he has a roadside sh*t shack and I saw a pair of really ugly vomit-green end tables outside his shop that I had noticed at an earlier estate sale.
That’s why I don’t hold yard sales
Guy was stopped at the front of the line for a red light on a cross street in the left hand turn lane in a minivan plastered with “FOR SALE” and “A STEAL AT $4999″ and so on writing. Then he opened the drivers door and got out. I was watching idly just in case he had decided to abandon the thing on the main street.
It turns out that what he was doing was picking up his yard sale sign from the median. OK, no more snickering. I respect people who pick up their litter.
Do these numbers have any relevance to the “Golden” State?
Federal minimum wage: $7.45
National family income: $49,963.00
Population: 30+ million
Unemployed: 2,248,000 (Sept 18th 2009)
Taxes: increasing +
Services: decreasing -
Number of “houses” for sale: increasing +
Credit lines of “home equity”: decreasing -
Number of people in the MSM that yackety yak that theses numbers are not relevant: Majority
Number of people on Ben’s HBB blog that think likewise: Few and far between and lately seldom heard from…
Those undersized “donut” spares can really wear out a differential quickly - this could really be false economy for someone. Rather than spring for a cheapo tire, they could be out a rear differential or front transaxle rebuild.
For anyone who does not want to pay $100Ks to live in modest coastal California housing, and who does not mind cold winters, there is the alternative of relocating to Detroit.
* The Wall Street Journal
* REAL ESTATE
* SEPTEMBER 26, 2009
In One Home, a Mighty City’s Rise and Fall
Price of Typical Detroit House: $7,100
BY MICHAEL M. PHILLIPS
DETROIT — On a grassy lot on a quiet block on a graceful boulevard stands the answer to a perplexing question: Why does the typical house in Detroit sell for $7,100?
The brick-and-stucco home at 1626 W. Boston Blvd. has watched almost a century of Detroit’s ups and downs, through industrial brilliance and racial discord, economic decline and financial collapse. Its owners have played a part in it all.
You might be able to buy on a walmart salary there.
Or Kohl’s.
Kohl’s sees California as a retail gold mine
30 stores opening throughout state
By Nina Garin
Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. September 26, 2009
At a time when many retailers are going out of business, Kohl’s — home of discount clothing and home accessories — is moving in the opposite direction.
On Wednesday, the Wisconsin-based Kohl’s Corp. will formally open 30 stores throughout California, including San Diego locations in College Grove, Mira Mesa and Clairemont. Some of the stores will have “soft” openings tomorrow.
“We already have seven stores in San Diego and it’s working very well for us,” said Dale Adams, Kohl’s district manager. “We had an opportunity to get into some new locations, and we wanted to continue to grow in this city.”
It might seem like a bold move to expand right now — especially since holiday shopping forecasts for 2009 are grim — but Kohl’s has gone about the process economically.
Most of the California Kohl’s, including all three new San Diego locations, will be housed in stores vacated by the bankrupt Mervyn’s chain.
“That’s what good companies should do,” said Alan Gin, an economist at the University of San Diego. “Sure, there’s a little bit of risk, but that’s what you do when things are difficult. You use that as an opportunity to get established and lock up good real estate rates.”
…
“Kohl’s is a well-run company that hasn’t overexpanded,” Gin said. “They were late in coming to California, and as a result, they weren’t hurt big by the housing downturn that we’ve had.”
…
My gf likes to shop at kohls.I go with her and pretend I like the place.Seems like a pennys or defunct mervyns to me.Not sure what the excitment is about.I guess people just like to shop at the newest fad place.Remember how that worked for krispy kreme donuts.I dont see how kmart is hanging on.I would hate to see there real numbers.whenever I go in there I see nothing but seniors roaming around.Did anyoine see the new cnbc special on walmart?That company knows how to make money.Their competition is dribbleing in their pants.
I bought some workout towels there a couple years back. They frayed and ran with color from my sweat. So, that’s my opinion of Kohls–good enough for my sweat and nothing more.
I made the mistake of buying a big bunch of sturdy looking Cannon colored bath towels that were “on sale” recently.
I ended up with fuzzies on everything!
Fuzzies in the dryer, fuzzies on the towels and even fuzzies on me when I used the darned things. I used the same two once again, wash, rinse repeat, same results. The unused ones went back to the store with the reciept and…with a a large sample of the fuzz from the dryer.
.
The women in my family used to say that Cannon towel sets was a decent name for basic towels. These fuzzballs were made in INDIA!
A 100% Indian Cotton… yeah…all over my little fuzzy butt
Your butt-crack lint ball must have been HUGE that day.
Crusty too.
.
The women in my family used to say that Cannon towel sets was a decent name for basic towels.
That was when Cannon was made in the USof A.
Now, kohls etc are all 2nd hand 2nd level crap.
If they are smart, their real estate overhead costs for their brand new retail stores should be much less than the competition that expanded earlier in the decade.
I was a cashier at a Madison, Wisc. Kohl’s in 1993.
Kohl’s is successful because the price you pay when you get to the register is often LOWER than the price listed on the floor.
It’s their gimmick, and a good one at that, if you ask me.
Mervyn’s was put out of business by a leverage buy out firm for their cash and the value of the commercial property.
Yeah, and IIRC it was Cerebus, the same group that bought Chrysler!!
HOLY Crap. Cerebus x2?
OH great more crap from China to buy.
The dead tree edition of the WSJ includes an interesting time series graph of Detroit home prices. Over the years from 2003 through 2006, they gradually but steadily trended up from $60,000 to $70,000. From the second half of 2006 through early 2007, they plummeted by over 50 percent (to $30,000) before snapping back up to $55,000 or so by mid-summer 2007. After the onset of the so-called Credit Crunch in the summer of 2007, they resumed their precipitous decline, dropping from $55,000 down to the recent level of $7,100 in what looks like a pattern of exponential decay.
This is what capitulation looks like, folks. I am wondering if California home prices will ever follow suit? In the meanwhile, I am suggesting to any prospective home buyers who complain about still-stratospheric prices relative to typical local household incomes that they consider relocating to Detroit, where the first-time homebuyer tax credit will buy you a median-valued home, and leave money in your pocket.
I dont seeing it getting that bad in cali.I think there are bidding wars in s. cali as we speak.People are back to buying anything they think as a good deal.
Not for long. The government is 2 trillion into the mortgage market THIS YEAR.
Simply unsustainable. When that source runs dry, I doubt the Chinese and Japanese and others will step into the breach.
Now if you told me that these were cash buyers doing the bidding and buying, I would tell you good times have returned.
Unfortunately, 2 trillion dollars belies that pipe-dream.
Yes they can get that bad. You ain’t seen nothing yet.
I agree. 12% unemployment and counting.
My hunch is that Detroit is the real canary in the coal mine. If this time is like the early 1990s bust, then the bottom of the CA housing market will not occur until at least five years after the end of the recession. For comparison, the early 1990s recession ended in March 1991, while CA housing did not bottom out until 1996 in most locales.
The housing price runup and subsequent decline was also much smaller in the early 1990s, and I don’t believe there were such extraordinarily extreme bubble respiking efforts then as there were this go round. Between the prospect of an end to Dough-4-Dumps, higher interest rates going forward, a still massive number of prime and Alt-A resets still scheduled to occur and still rising unemployment, CA housing does not look as though it has reached bottom yet.
I am guessing that after the current debt cat bounce in prices ends, it will be at least 2014 until a bottom is reached, and that it will be “worse than expected’ for those who thought a bottom was already “in the bag”.
I am not suggesting that CA housing will reach a comparable absolute price level to Detroit’s recent one (you will never be able to buy CA homes for $7100), but rather that a far larger price decline in percentage terms than MSM-cited experts claim will occur may not be out of the question. For comparison, Detroit’s prices dropped by about 90 percent (from $71,000 to $7,100). Say San Diego prices ultimately bottomed out at a relatively smaller percentage decline (assuming our employment base is not comparably decimated as the automotive-industry-dependent Detroit employment base was) of 75 percent. That would bring the median price at the bottom down to a relatively affordable level of 0.25*517,000 = $129,250. At that price level, I might even seriously consider buying a home. Such a level of affordability would be a fantastic boon for San Diego’s future labor force, as young families with high value skills from all over the planet would seek the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of the recovery.
I don’t believe San Diego housing prices have yet reached a sufficient level of affordability to provide fertile grounds for a recovery to occur.
The Detroits of the Midwest have been the buyers of the crap from asia that stoked the California miracle economy. How’s that workin’ out lately? Anybody left in LA thinkin’ that the chatchky business is going to pick up enuff to pump up the port again? Not in anyone here’s lifetime. Local Walmart had one maybe two cashiers last weekend, daytime… Im going tomorrow… need a little more ammo…will count them again. The Ohio average household income continues to drop markedly yoy; home prices will only continue to decline which will prevent people from leaving unless they walk away. Either way, no snowbirds flocking this autumn. Meaning: continued price drops in Fla and points south.
The tax credit is 10 pct of anything below 80K and 8K for anything above.
More importantly, however, is it safe to assume sans GM recapitalization the Midwest region of the US would already be in a depression? What about the Southern and Western regions, the areas most affected by the housing bubble’s rise and collapse?
Maybe one could lie on the loan document and say you were buying a San Diego starter home, only to spend your $8K on a $7,500 Detroit starter home? Others have similarly lied on their loan documents and gotten away with it. Perhaps ACORN could provide useful advice on the way to pull off this scam?
“…Perhaps ACORN could provide useful advice on the way to pull off this scam?”
Now Mr. Bear, unlike you to trash everybody all at once…how many people do work for ACORN, as many as work for the LDS? See how yucky such statements can get.
Hwy,
Don’t pay attention to PB. He’s looking for a fight and wants someone to launch personal attacks against him.
If I had suggested ACORN was advising pimps and prostitutes on how to hide their business practices, then I could see how some might be offended. Instead I was merely suggesting they might have some useful advice about applying for mortgage loans to take full advantage of the $8K tax credit. I frankly don’t understand why the policy should unfairly give more money to California buyers than Detroit buyers, anyway. Aren’t all Californians already rich?
“He’s looking for a fight and wants someone to launch personal attacks against him.”
Boredom will drive men to pick fights over nothing…
Aren’t all Californians already rich?
PB is.
NY has a better deal?
If you don’t mind getting mugged, shot or robed. You can buy a home for a $1.00(one dollar). Syracuse will sell these properties to anybody without checking their ability to finance the rehab. That is a no no it’s called financial profiling and the city won’t have any of it.
Look at the bottom to see the listings.
http://www.homehq.org/homeownership/SaltDistrict.html#ReadyWaiting
“This is what capitulation looks like, folks.”
Detroit is THE MOST LIBERAL and corrupt city in America. THAT is what socialism looks like, folks.
People don’t like it and vote with their feet.
You wanna bring Detroit back? Ban unions. Reduce government and taxes by 90%. Close all the government schools and give the parents vouchers. Hang criminals within 30 days of convictions. ETC.
Nah - let’s keep with the same socialist traditions until housing prices are $1000. And even at that people will refuse to move there.
For the 2000 Census, median household income in the city was $29,526, and the median income for a family was $33,853. Males had a median income of $33,381 versus $26,749 for females. The per capita income for the city was $14,717. 26.1% of the population and 21.7% of families were below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 34.5% of those under the age of 18 and 18.6% of those 65 and older were living below the poverty line.
The racial makeup of the city was 81.6% Black, 12.3% White, 1.0% Asian, 0.3% Native American, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 2.5% other races, 2.3% two or more races, and 5.0 percent Hispanic. The city’s foreign-born population is at 4.8%. Estimates from the 2005-2007 American Community Survey showed little variance.
Metro Detroit suburbs are among the more affluent in the U.S. in contrast to lower incomes found within the city limits.[105] A 2007 report shows the city of Detroit’s median household income at $34,512, a 12% increase over the Census estimate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit#Demographics
Reading the full Wiki page it becomes obvious that Detroit became polarized.
You wanna bring Detroit back? Ban unions. Reduce government and taxes by 90%. Close all the government schools and give the parents vouchers. Hang criminals within 30 days of convictions. ETC.
Repeal corporation laws too, and refuse legal recognition to out-of-state corps.
It clearly shows that the people in Detroit were considerably more alert than those in CA.
LA Times
Don’t bank on your home as an ATM
The coming decades won’t repeat the dramatic rise in real estate values that previous generations experienced, economists say. It may be time to return to viewing the home simply as a place to live.
Lawd, now the tell em.
Leigh
Hee hee hee! I think I’ll put a sign in my apartment window “Real Estate Only Goes Up!” LOL.
I totally welcome the notion of a house as not an investment, but a home.
“I think I’ll put a sign in my apartment window “Real Estate Only Goes Up!” LOL.”
Priceless. I should get a big honking button with that motto on it and just wear it around, with a big *hit-eating grin.
Put some flame paint on the sign and button.
Roidy
Antique collectible signs.
Good morning HBBers, from beautiful Western Colorado (Glenwood Springs), where it’s different and the recession is over before people here could even admit we were having one.
Some local headlines from around this part of the world:
“Dealing with collection agencies” (Grand Junction Free Press)
“Utahns’ need for food help break records” (Salt Lake Tribune)
“Rock plant blooms every year” (Price, Utah Sun Advocate)
“P&Z asked to sign new code of ethics and conduct” (Ouray Plaindealer)
“Fixing Our Broken Economy”/”Former Bank of Durango Executives Sentenced for Tax Evasion” (Telluride Watch)
“New Castle has a moose on the loose” (Glenwood Springs Post Independent)
Hope everyone has a great day!
How long are you in Colorado? See any signs of fall colors?
Are you headed back to Utah gal?
Fall colors are started and very pretty. Hope to post some photos on my blog if I’m around long enough, not sure where next. Depends on if the *law heads this way or not…
*(I’m wanted for squatting in two states, Utah and Montana…)
Oh, that’s an interesting POV… squatters & bankers both get warrants!
Do squatters get bench warrants? (Sorry)
Why yes Losty, a park bench, directly across the street from the local bank, you get to watch the Mr. Banker come and go, provided you’re not napping during his “Banker’s hours”
It is not uncommon to pay about 5% of your property value in property taxes here in Syracuse NY.
Talk about renting your home from the school district. Many people who live here can not afford to retire in CNY.
Central New York homeowners pay high percentage of home value in taxes
Homeowners in Central New York pay some of the highest property taxes in the country compared to the value of their homes, according to a recent report based on U.S. Census Bureau records.
“The findings are no surprise,” said Stephen J. Acquario, executive director of the New York State Association of Counties. “If you look at the price of housing in Upstate New York, it’s reasonable. It’s the taxes that are unreasonable.”
Cayuga, Onondaga, Oswego and Madison counties are in the top 12 nationwide, according to federal data crunched by the Tax Foundation think tank. The rankings are done by dividing the median property taxes paid by the median home value.
School taxes make up the biggest chunk of the property tax bill — about 60 percent in New York, Acquario said. According to the Census Bureau, New York spends about $16,000 per pupil, more than any other state.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/09/central_new_york_homeowners_pa.html
Oh my gawd, that’s unreal. And NY has a state income tax (right?). What’s the median home price where the taxes are 5%? Here in S. FL we have a 2% rate, which, IMHO, is totally outrageous; during the boom a median home would have an almost 10K tax bill (and a 3-5K insurance bill).
5% sounds horrific, but, if home prices are very low in that area, it may not be as bad as it sounds.
“And NY has a state income tax (right?).”
Right. And now you know why I go nutz whenever someone suggests Florida needs an income tax. I lived in NY and also in Mass. I also lived in CT pre-state income tax. The big joke was, when you drove over the border from NY to CT, the potholes disappeared and the roads were well-maintained. Of course, CT now has a state inkytax. And it’s declining.
And that would be the fate of Florida, too. Income tax is one of the greatest evils on the entire planet. Witness how the centerpiece of “health care” is an IRS enforced mandate.
“It’s the taxes that are unreasonable.”
Of course. But someone’s gotta pay for all that diversity training and anchor baby eddication and meals. Someone’s gotta pay for all that fine school district management. Someone’s gotta pay for all those computers, even though the kiddies may be illiterate.
That’s what they get for their money - some head honcho or political hack has his or her BIL or stepson or niece or SIL or wife or friend of a friend get high pay BS admin jobs. Upon graduation, however, the kids can’t tell you how many U.S. Presidents there were, or what nuclear fusion is, or where Austria is on the map.
But they know they shouldn’t salute the flag or say a prayer because that might offend someone.
“But they know they shouldn’t salute the flag or say a prayer because that might offend someone.”
Therefore reciting the islamic Salaat in school would be acceptable to you. Right? RIGHT? Or how about a few Hindu Vedas?
So what happens if housing prices in those areas of NY drop 50%? Will the taxes be increased to 10% per year to make up the difference?
The more I read, I’m hard pressed to completely leave our rural location and its 0.2-0.4% tax rate on average. Even if it means spending a lot of time in extended stays for work purposes. It’s all written off on the business, plus per diem is such a great way to fund our basic expenses, tax free.
Public education can’t be fixed. Shut it down.
Shut it down?
Pure genius!
76.6 million children roaming the streets with nothing to do. Oh yeah, I forgot, faith-based initiatives will take care of that, no problem.
Should we shut down all the public community colleges and universities, too, Dark Ages in Carolina?
And we saw how “faith based initiatives” was just another means of extortion and fraud.
Thank the theocons for completely distorting the publics perception of the word faith.
In Silicon Valley opportunies abound for Indian educated engineers.
Went by EBAY and saw mostly Indian imported H1b’s working on code.
Can’t see Americans wanting or getting those jobs. It pays somewhere between 1’st world and 3′rd world payscale.
Then those Americans will be flipping burgers and serving it to the H1-B’s.
I’ve seen far too many people’s careers get completely annihilated out of “false pride”. They simply don’t seem to grasp the global situation.
Whole teams or projects are given to companies like Infosys, Satyam or Wipro.
Do you think those companies want complete projects or a piece of the prject? Try competing against that mentality from CEO determined to replace the lazy American worker.
Don’t care.
Those whole teams are overrated as a general rule. A tight focused elite duo/trio (or a cheap Indian team) can beat the living pants off most typical “teams”.
And what you produce is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
And in this very specific case (like most others) I know what I am talking about. I can hack just about any kernel there is unlike most others (”i was a bored teenager”) so when I see what most people consider “production code”, I reach for the fire-these-f_ckers-pronto button.
FP, I’ve also seen a lot of people balk from false pride.
But I’ve seen more people ruined because their wages were cut by 30% while inflation kept rising.
Once again, a consumer driven economy can do nothing but FAIL if your consumers don’t have any money but you keep raising prices.
We are there… now.
Agreed.
You are hardly going to get any argument from me about this.
My claim would be different. Most people should’ve lived strongly within their means. That means 25% down and pay off that mortgage ASAP.
Am I the only one to remember mortgage-burning parties?!?
Fer cryin’ out loud, I’m among the youngest people on the blog.
I agree that those who could, should have lived within’ their means as well.
I have little sympathy for those who made very good money and blew it on toys (an other extravagances and frivolities) then lost their great paying jobs. Don’t get me wrong, I like toys (and the other things) as much as the next person, but toys are way down the list on the budget.
One of my first reactions when hearing about the video of the kindergarten kids singing the praises of Dear Leader was, “might not be a bad time to invest in publicly traded charter schools…”
Was that the video of the kids singing to Bush in Stockton?
I’m not familiar with that one, but to each their own poison.
It only reinforces the serious point I was trying to make, my snark notwithstanding. Public schools can only hope to succeed if they are reinforcing a generally shared set of core values. Sadly, that no longer seems to be the case.
Leave it to the Fear Channels to get everyone’s panties in a twist over kiddies singing Obama’s praises, while ignoring the crime being perpetrated against those same kids by the multi-trillion-dollar generational debt transfer being foisted off on them by the Boomers.
And Sammy would have posted the exact same response if the kids had been singing Cheney’s praises.
Mmm-mm-mm.
Repeat
Leave it to the Fear Channels to get everyone’s panties in a twist over kiddies singing Obama’s praises, while ignoring the crime being perpetrated against those same kids by the multi-trillion-dollar generational debt transfer being foisted off on them by the Boomers.
I can confirm the utterly outlandish property taxes in Onandaga and Oswego counties.
Here’s a fact….. Syracuse(Onandaga) is NOT a high rent district by any measure and in fact quite low compared to the lower hudson valley. The taxes levied on property in Onandaga rivals Westchester and Putnam counties(commutable to NYC). Note that southern Saratoga county property taxes have become outlandish also. I know a guy in the town of Ballston Spa(a very small dumpy city) that just paid $13k in school taxes alone for a rancher on 3 acres.
You wanted spiraling housing costs to the clouds, you got’em. How’s it feel now you a$$wipes?
Like it or not, Wall street income taxes have been funding upstate NY for decades.
If you can find it, check out NYS troopers salaries from 1998 to 2008. Keep in mind that 75% of them live in low cost areas.
“Like it or not, Wall street income taxes have been funding upstate NY for decades.”
You ever THINK before you post?
Take away the SUNY schools, the prisons, and the NYS highway dept (basically, take away all state jobs) and you’d have appalachia. Soooo like it or not it’s a sad, but true statement.
Whether anyone “likes it or not” does bear on anything. You’re entitle to your opinions but you can’t make up your own facts.
Sorry.
How bad can the taxes be if the purchase price was $1.00?
There’s a minimum amount of property tax - $2K-$5K or so - so they are renting at the end of the day.
Burning down the house? IRS nixes tax deductions for burning down your house
http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/107824/burning-down-the-house-IRS-nixes-tax-deductions.html?mod=taxes-filing
(donating house slated-to-be-demolished to a fire department for training, to claim charity tax deduction is not valid, says the IRS)
We are still seeing multiple, higher than asking prices around here for the low end, bank owned props. And banks are still holding back just letting a few go on the market at once. When will the flood gates open? Inventory was a lot higher in 08 than today. I need to be patient, but I hate the POS rental I am living in.
Sigh. I hear ya, dude, but the slide WILL begin shortly, sometime between October and January and then it’s off the cliff until 2014. I have put my faith in Charles Hugh Smith’s bubble graph. And we’re right now approaching the tail end of the sucker bottom. Find another rental you can tolerate, you’ve got a bit of a wait. Heck, I was antsy back in 2005, and moved from one crappy rental to another, finally found one I like.
Major national RE firm has told their agents that ‘do not bother at all, going to BofA for home loans’. BofA is not doing any home loans.
While the pace should slowly pick up, I don’t expect any avalanche of REOs hitting the market.. ever. Banks have nothing to gain and everything to lose if they’re not careful.
The way I see it, the banks are buying time. They need time to recover their footing and restore their reserves. They have the full support of the government in this effort. I expect that to continue.
A bank will release a property only when it can easily afford to take the loss on that property. Selling just one or a few has a minimal effect on comps and on market price reduction. Price reduction is bad for banks. A flood of REOs would cause some serious reductions and would be counterproductive..
Prices will continue to fall. Nothing can prevent that. The pool of qualified buyers dries up.. supply far outweighs demand for years..
Shadow inventory from private sellers adds to supply as the realization that wishing prices will not be met becomes apparent. A lot still believe an impending market rebound is right around the corner.
Saving some money isn’t everything. Buy soon if what you want is within your budget, or wait. Being uncomfortable while waiting is very distracting and might encourage bad decisions.
“Prices will continue to fall.”
I keep thinking banks holding on to REO will figure that out and dump their holdings on the market before they catch even more falling knife capital losses. Why do banks think it is in their interest to lose even more money than they have already lost? Or is it that they are simply in a deluded state of mind?
It was my understanding that if a bank held the mortgage they were foreclosing on they had one year to get that REO off the books. FDIC insured banks are prohibited from holding real property. Is this true?
But, of course banks are only servicing the mortgage that has been securitized and exists in an MBS somewhere on Wall Street. Which makes me wonder why the banks care? Are they taking a loss when they agree to a short sale or foreclose and sell?
Banks are taking long long long time getting to short sales, putting someone in charge. The lights are on, but no one is home.
Dadgummit! There’s an orca pod hanging out in Eld inlet so I was gonna kayak out there and see if one would let me ride on it. I thought if I rubbed bacon on myself I would enchant them and then we could dash through the waves majestically while I waved. Everybody loves bacon, and I should imagine that bacon would easily tame wild creatures. After all, bacon tames men, doesn’t it?
So I went down the road to where my kayak is locked up and I couldn’t get the lock open! It has corroded shut from the salt water. So I was very mad and went to console myself with my emergency can of beer. I keep a little stash of stuff hidden in the brush right there in case I want to have a little bonfire or whatever, and naturally there’s a beer in there. And guess what? I had put the emergency can of beer in a copper kettle that I had recently used to rinse stolen oysters off with and the aluminum can had interacted with the salt water and the copper to make a crude battery. Naturally all YOU smarty-pantses could have seen that coming and put your precious emergency beer somewhere else, but I didn’t figure it out until I saw the alarmingly colored fluid sitting in the kettle and the sizzled-looking holes in the beer can. So then I was even madder. Then I stamped back up the road and I can’t find my hacksaw and there’s no bacon in the fridge, and I’m so aggravated there are veins pulsing in my forehead. At this rate I will NEVER get out there and be eaten by orcas!
So now I’m going to go kill someone to let off steam.
What does all this have to do with housing? Not a d*mn thing. And if anyone points that out, you’ll be the very first one who gets to be kilt.
Oly, I hate to differ, but you’re wrong about it having nothing to do with housing and the economy. I see some great analogies there, will leave it to others to explicate what they might see…
orca = deflation
corroded lock = foreclosure
corroded beer = florida houses decomposing in sun
no beer/bacon = no jobs
kill = slaughter family
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
The puddytat strikes again….where ya been?
Oh, around and about.
Tormenting farmers with my exactitude, cooking, attending film festivals, skipping in glee around Central Park, cackling at foreclosures, giggling loudly on the subway at weeping indebted “consumers”.
The usual, in short.
FPSS,
What have you been cooking?
FPSS,
What have you been cooking?
Was there bacon involved? Because that would be pleasingly congruent. Bacon and orcas.
I don’t care, just go ahead and lie to me and say there was.
Bacon…
bite me!
lol
You!
And I would, if you were bacon, Mr. Man. And I would even if you WEREN’T bacon, because you deserve a really good bite.
Well did you break the lock and see your Orcas?
She couldn’t quite hack it, apparently!
Yuck, yuck, yuck.
*groan*
Aren’t there a bunch of unemployed software geeks around there? They should be good at hacking things.
Where’s Richard Feynman when you need him?
Well did you break the lock and see your Orcas?
Thank you for asking, SanFrany, I appreciate it. I finally found my hacksaw, after some dramatic and lengthy cussing that denuded all nearby trees, and I trotted down there, still snarling and denuding trees with my bold and forceful words*, and freed myself and paddled out there, but I saw no orcas. It was still nice. And I didn’t get eaten, so that was nice, too.
*I got skillz this way.
I saw a murder of crows, with wings that sound like slow scythes in ripe grain.
Also two harbor seals who trailed along behind, doing like seals always do, goggling curiously and chuffing loudly until you whip around to look at them whereupon they swiftly hump their sleek backs over and dive under in a shy fashion.
The first time I saw a harbor seal I thought it was an earless dog until I noticed, but why’s it in the middle of the sea? Oh, yeah, and it seems to have flippers as well. A clue, there.
You know, although orca-less, I’m cheering up just typing this to y’awl. Thanks.
Why don’t you apply to the government for some stimulus research grants to study the application of the aluminum/beer/copper battery towards electric cars?
You could spend a million bucks researching different kinds of beer for their electrolyte efficiency. All on the taxpayer’s dollar!
You could spend a million bucks researching different kinds of beer for their electrolyte efficiency. All on the taxpayer’s dollar!
Yer an utter freakin’ genious, Dennis! I’ve said this before, and I say it at this time yet again, with even more emphasis!
*respectful face *
In Bay Area California wages will continue to come down. Because of influx of foreign workers salaries will be subdued and more and more job outsourced.
The change has been obvious over the last decade but wait another 5 years and India will do development and US high tech jobs will be in decline. At which point housing will be way overvalued.
Only way to stop this erosion is to tax all internet traffic going across international borders.
In Bay Area California wages will continue to come down.
Guess what that does to house prices!
California real estate always goes up.
Except when it doesn’t.
Number of people who haven’t figured out the obvious is incredible. Most live in denial that high paying jobs will return once the recession is over. I think this is going to be a jobless recovery.
Because of the jobless recovery even if you buy a house you have to buy frugally assume a 10 % pay cut. Just in case you lose your job.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Example fo stupidity:
http://guestworkerfraud.com/cant-find-qualified-workers/#000670
Recently in Can’t Find Qualified Workers Category
India, China refusing to accept deported nationals
By admin on September 16, 2009 10:36 PM | Permalink | TrackBacks (0)
Now we know what is really going on: India and China are dumping their criminals onto the U.S. using visas and then refusing to take them back when they are discovered. Isn’t globalization good for America?
After all, if you are facing a competitor such as the U.S. and you can’t beat them honestly, then you have to try to deliberately attack them in order to drag them down because you can’t go up.
People from India and China can’t exactly walk into the U.S. - they have to come here on visas and fly here. And if many of them are criminals then it means they are committing VISA FRAUD.
Now we begin to see the true nature and reality of our “strategic business partners”, India & China. It’s all a big fraud. These are criminal nations we are dealing with. And we should cut off all trade with them immediately.
The message from the governments of India and China to the U.S. is clear: our criminals are your problem now.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/world/us/India-China-refusing-to-accept-deported-nationals-US-lawmaker/articleshow/5019616.cms
WASHINGTON: Accusing India along with China, Iran and four other countries of refusing to take back their nationals who were deported from the US, a lawmaker here has introduced a legislation aimed at denying aid to such nations and visas to their nationals.
Speaking on the floor of the House of Representatives, Congressman Ted Poe, said the number of such “criminal aliens” in the US had increased to 160,000. However, he did not give details of how many of them were from India.
“Right now there are over 160,000 of these criminal aliens roaming our nation and our streets. These people have been lawfully deported after they’ve served their prison time, but their home nation refuses to take them back,” Poe said.
He said several countries were refusing to take back their lawfully convicted nationals, naming Vietnam, Jamaica, China, India, Ethiopia, Laos, and Iran.
rentor… that would be ANOTHER jobless recovery… in the last 10 years!
Not good. Not good at all.
It wouldn’t be jobless if you had more job security than “at will employment”
Employers are always looking to add to payroll in Banglore while looking to cut in Silicon Valley. If they can they just move projects to India, or bring in a team from India to take project back after a few years.
Rentor, please tone down on the immigrant baiting.
Filed under: Exfoliation
i.e., Exfoliation (cosmetology/finanace), is a cosmetic technique aimed at removing dead skin cells from the face and body of economic systems.
“…Of the hundreds of people we’ve met while covering the economic crisis, not one has changed so thoroughly as Glen Pizzolorusso. Back in May 2008, he appeared in a special collaboration between NPR and This American Life, “The Giant Pool of Money.” The show looked at the chain of subprime mortgage securitization and explained how the crisis began. A year and a half later, we decided to check in with him and a few of the others who helped us understand that cycle of boom and bust.”
For Pizzolorusso, the story started when he was just 14 and working in his father’s mortgage firm. Making a habit of 60-hour weeks, he found his way up from his father’s company to a position as head of a subprime mortgage sales team. He was bringing home more than $100,000 a month, choosing each day which of his five cars to drive, shuttling between two luxury homes, partying in expensive New York City nightclubs.
Pizzolorusso, still in his 20s, was living the glamorous life. “We rolled up to Marquee at midnight with a line 500 people deep out front,” he said last year in the special This American Life episode called “The Giant Pool of Money.”
“Walk right up to the door: ‘Give me my table.’ Sitting next to Tara Reid and a couple of her friends. Christina Aguilera was doing some ‘I’m Christina Aguilera and I’m gonna get up and sing’ kind of thing. Who else was there? Cuba Gooding and that kid from Filthy Rich: Cattle Drive. What was that kid’s name? Fabian Barabia? We ordered three, four bottles of Cristal at $1,000 per bottle. They bring it out — you know they’re walking through the crowd, they’re holding the bottles over their heads. There’s firecrackers, sparklers. You know, the little cocktail waitresses. You know, so you order three or four bottles of those and they’re walking through the crowd and everyone’s like, ‘Whoa, who’s the cool guys?’ We were the cool guys. They gave me the black card with my name on it. There’s probably 10 in existence. You know? And that meant that I spent way too much money there.”
The good times lasted until the subprime mortgage bubble burst. Pizzolorusso entered his own personal financial crisis. He lost everything. His company is out of business. He lost the Porsche and the other cars. He lost his home to foreclosure. He can’t afford to rent a place, so he’s staying at a house his dad owns, the one where he grew up.
“I have been humbled,” he says today. “I mean, I’ve been forced to be humbled. I have a different outlook of what is important. I used to think that it mattered; it doesn’t. None of the monetary stuff that we are preconditioned to think is important matters.”
Instead of partying, Pizzolorusso spends most of his time now with his wife and three kids. He’s in school and loves it. He never liked school before. He’s reading a lot of books about politics and history. He never liked reading before. He says it’s like a new Glen has arrived…
Wall Streeters weigh life after ‘Giant Pool of Money’
Sept. 24, 2009 | Alex Blumberg and Adam Davidson | NPR
H-1b program is displacing daughter of Programmers Guild president out of the job market
By admin on September 16, 2009 9:17 PM | Permalink | TrackBacks (0)
http://www.programmersguild.org/docs/stephanie_job_11sept2009.html
In May 2009, Kim’s daughter Stephanie graduated from the University of Southern California (USC) with dual STEM degrees. (U.S. News ranks USC Engineering school 7th in the nation.) Stephanie completed both degrees in only four years and worked at summer internships. She has incurred student loans approaching six figures. Her resume is here - and Stephanie is willing to speak with reporters.
* M.S. Civil Engineering, Structural Engineering
* B.S. Civil Engineering, Building Science (Architectural Engineering)
* National Honor Societies: Chi Epsilon, Tau Beta Pi, Mortar Board (Webmaster), Phi Kappa Phi
* GPA: 3.840
In spite of a diligent search for work through the summer, she - along with many of her USC classmates - is unable to find a job. This is a typical response:
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:54 AM:
Hello Stephanie �
Thank you for your resume, it is very impressive. Unfortunately, as I�m sure you�re aware, the state of the economy is not good, and Las Vegas especially has been hit harder than most. I would truly like to bring you in for an interview and hire, but we just don�t have the workload capacity to hire anyone right now.
Yet, even in this worst job market in 25 years, in October 2009 Congress will flood in another 65,000 H-1b workers. In 99% of these jobs Congress did not even require that employers first try to fill these jobs with American workers.
Remind me again, which party is in the majority in Congress right now?
Yet, even in this worst job market in 25 years, in October 2009 Congress will flood in another 65,000 H-1b workers. In 99% of these jobs Congress did not even require that employers first try to fill these jobs with American workers.
Mostly far right corporate owned congress. Yes, the D’s out number, numerically, but 60 of them vote right sided all the time.
They are all owned by corporate interests.
So Bill, quit trying to act like you are all that.
I say this is BS. Can this claim be proven?
The reality is that there are few jobs to go around.
Most H1-Bs go to CS type jobs. The civil engineering industry is close to dead in the USA, so its not entirely surprising she is not able to find a job. Maybe she should move to Dubai.
FYI, even the current H1-B cap isn’t filled. This wasn’t the case 2 years ago, when the quota got exhausted in half a day. As per USCIS:
As of September 18, 2009, approximately 46,000 H-1B cap-subject petitions and approximately 20,000 petitions qualifying for the advanced degree cap exemption had been filed. USCIS will continue to accept both cap-subject petitions and advanced degree petitions until a sufficient number of H-1B petitions have been received to reach the statutory limits, taking into account the fact that some of these petitions may be denied, revoked, or withdrawn.
We all know that GM was booming in 2006 and we also know that in that same year GM did a multi-billion outsourcing deal with India’s Wipro. 3 short years later, GM went bankrupt. Wipro didn’t quite keep GM competitive as promised, did they? So much for India, Inc’s claims of being superior to American workers.
A protest of GM’s abuse of the controversial H1-B Visa program was apparently developed by a group of GM employees. Information about a relevant HBO documentary regarding the closing of the GM Moraine, Ohio assembly plant, “The Last Truck” follows.
http://pr-usa.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=260772&Itemid=31
PR-USA.net
An open letter to Fritz Henderson - No more H1B visas
Tuesday, 08 September 2009
This is an open letter to Mr. Fritz Henderson:
General Motors continues to retain H1B Employees while US Citizens are getting laid off. H1B employees are those who are here on a temporary work visa.
Approximately 4000 white-collared employees will lose their jobs by October 2009.
We are a group of technology workers who are also US citizens and are all unemployed due to issues faced by US automakers.
In spite of years of experience working in the information technology field, we are unable to find suitable positions. It is unfair then for GM and other companies to retain H1B workers when US citizens cannot find jobs.
There is no job out there today that a US citizen cannot be trained to do. Mr. Fritz Henderson, we request you to review your employee files and determine why an H1B employee is currently employed at GM when similarly or more experienced US Citizen workers are available in the market place.
We urge you to do the morally right thing for America and to replace your H1B employees with US citizens or Green Card holders. This is an appeal that is being sent out to all the media so that appropriate attention is received.
It’s been proven over and over than illegal immigrant (or “undocumenteds”) and large scale importation of foreign workers along with offshoring is about driving down wages.
And nothing else.
The only people who defend this policy are the perpetrators or the ignorant.
Darned straight!
Replace the loser Americans by hard-working immigrants.
***giggle***
So now the fact that GM builds crap cars is Wipro’s fault? Please spare us your logic.
FYI, I was commenting on renter’s statement:
… 3 short years later, GM went bankrupt. Wipro didn’t quite keep GM competitive as promised, did they? …
As for the original letter from the anti H1-B folks, well they do have a point. Except I hope enlightened Americans see the equivalence between the importation of services and the importation of manufactured goods, in which case I expect them to be a lot more pissed off with Walmart than the likes of Wipro.
Has anyone seen the new GMC campaign?
May the Best Car Win
Are !ucking kidding me!?
Gotta go, COPS just started.
Darn! You reminded me, I’m missing reruns of Dog the Bounty Hunter.
FPSS,
Is this your new signature?
***giggle***
No.
***giggle***
Brat
He really is pretty bratty.* I bet he got threatened with justly deserved spankings a whole lot as a child, but naughtily ran away each time and evaded his rightly earned punishments until his parents forgot or got distracted. And that’s why he’s so naughty now.
Spare the rod, spoil the child…
*I mean that in a good way, of course. So don’t be mad, okay?
I do believe the cocktail lamp it lit.
Speaking of which, I off to the pub…
Cheers to all.