September 27, 2009

Prisoners In Our Own Homes

The Globe & Mail reports from Canada. “For the throngs wandering through open houses this weekend, it may feel as though they fell through the looking glass while they were peering into closets. The downturn seems like a bad dream. Housing prices have rebounded, formerly gun-shy buyers are back on the market, and bidding wars abound. Has real estate got its boom back? 24-year-old…first-time buyer Chelsey Perrella…has been looking for a townhouse or apartment with her boyfriend for the past three months, and she does the open-house circuit most weekends in Vancouver’s popular Kitsilano and Fairview neighbourhoods.”

“‘We didn’t know how hard it would be,’ she said. Her favourite property to date - a townhouse with a rooftop patio - went for more than asking in a bidding war, but Ms. Perrella says she intends to keep searching, despite the competition. ‘We want to get into the market,’ she said. ‘You don’t want to miss out on anything.’”

The Vancouver Sun in Canada. “I cannot say the Wesbrook is an economics textbook definition of luxury. I can, however, tell you the homes are ready for occupancy. Wesbrook purchasers will buy a finished home. Building and grounds are not artist’s renderings. The homes are neither renderings nor floor plans. Their doors can be opened and closed. Some of them were sold before or during construction and are occupied. Most of them, however, are unsold and unoccupied.”

“‘So, often you go into a project and what is represented is totally day and night. It happens,’ says Lily Korstanje of Magnum Projects, who, with brother George Wong, is a pioneer of the sale and purchase of a home before construction, a business model the international financial crisis shattered last September.”

The Province in Canada. “Canadian real estate remains a bargain compared to the rest of the world, but Vancouver’s red-hot market is still the country’s most expensive, according to a new Coldwell Banker study. Vancouver realtor Marline Kolterhoff, who has been in the business for more than 38 years, said many Canadian markets such as Burnaby with an average price of $655,497 remain affordable even if Terminal City has gone sky-high.”

“‘When I started, bungalows were $17,000 or $18,000,’ Kolterhoff recalled. ‘I remember a manager saying: ‘One day these homes will be worth $100,000,’ and we all laughed and laughed and thought he was hysterical. Now, you can’t get anything for under $900,000.”

The Seattle Times in Washington.”Michael R. Mastro didn’t have to seek out investors. They came to him. The veteran Seattle real-estate developer’s reputation for making people money spread for 40 years by word-of-mouth, from friend to friend and generation to generation. One by one, the folks Mastro called his ‘Friends & Family Investors’ would come to his inconspicuous office on Rainier Avenue South and listen to him talk about his pending projects. Then they’d write big checks and take home promissory notes pledging they’d earn interest of 8, 9, even 12 percent — and could pull their money out any time.”

“But Mastro’s long, successful run came to a crashing end last month when three banks forced him into what may be Western Washington’s biggest, most complicated bankruptcy ever. And his Friends & Family — about 200 investors owed more than $100 million — are the creditors most at risk.”

“‘I’m certainly not holding out much hope,’ said Dave Carlson, co-owner of a Seattle firm that invested much of its cash with Mastro two years ago, when asked if he expects to get any of his money back. ‘Obviously, looking at it now, what we did was kind of a big mistake.’”

The Olympian in Washington. “Downtown’s historic Capitol Theater building, which was put up for sale in April, has a new selling price and a new tenant. The building also has lost one tenant since April but will gain one more starting next week. The building has five ground-floor retail spaces and 10 loft/office suites on the second floor, said Ryan Clintworth, the listing agent for the building.”

“Building owner Gary Holgate of Chehalis, citing health concerns, put the 21,000-square-foot building up for sale this spring for $1.8 million. After the building failed to attract a buyer in the past six months, the price was lowered to $1.45 million, he said Friday. Although the building has yet to find a buyer, it has received interest from prospective buyers including an undisclosed Bellingham resident who at one time had the property under contract, Holgate said.”

“‘We just couldn’t strike a good deal,’ he said. ‘That’s the only one we’ve had that made an offer and put money down.’”

The Billings Gazette in Montana. “Russ Squire didn’t anticipate a gravel and asphalt operation across Highway 78 when he planned The Spires, his upscale sustainable subdivision on the northwest edge of Red Lodge. He knew there would be commercial activity across the two-lane road, he said, but no one imagined heavy industry on the picturesque bench above the town. ‘Our investment is toast if this happens,’ Squire said.”

“Squire said The Spires is plotted for 96 home sites in its first phase, though almost all are empty. He said he doesn’t expect much interest until the nation’s economy improves and until the gravel pit issue is decided. ‘This is not good for people. It’s toxins, noise, dust and increased traffic,’ said Ed Williams, who owns a home in Red Lodge Country Club Estates. ‘Property values will be affected, too. They could decrease 10 to 50 percent, depending on how close you live.’”

‘In a letter to Squire, real estate agent Dorthea Lowe wrote, ‘One of the assets of Red Lodge is air quality, and for the sake of a handful of seasonal jobs, this shall be compromised? Red Lodge is a recreational area, which will lose its appeal once poisonous fumes are starting to drift across the city, and it will negatively affect the marketability of any real estate and tourism in Red Lodge, quite possibly making us prisoners in our own homes and reducing all property values in and around Red Lodge by up to 56 percent.’”

The Flathead Beacon in Montana. “The nation’s rural homeless rate is soaring. In Montana, it has really grown wings. Exacerbating matters in Montana are the state’s high foreclosure rates, which are particularly prevalent in the Flathead. Lori Botkin of the Flathead Food Bank said her agency is consistently flooded with families, many from the middle class, which represents a dramatic shift from past years. ‘We’re not seeing the live-under-the-bridge homeless,’ Botkin said. ‘It’s more middle-income families. They come in, they’re well dressed; they drive nice cars.’”

New West on Wyoming. “Few places evoke the Wild West of range wars and land feuds more than Johnson County, Wyoming. Now Johnson County is making another transition: moving from an agricultural county to a mineral and residential county. The place has lovely landscapes and vistas, fertile ground for new housing developments for the energy workers, retirees, and second-home seekers who are moving in.”

“Wayne Graves, a tall, lean cattleman from Barnum who sits on the Johnson County planning and zoning commission, has watched land-use debates in the county for a long time. In 2006, a neighboring rancher, Nicky Taylor, divided 53 acres of her property into ‘Outlaw Acres,’ a 20-lot subdivision within sight of the Graves’s front porch.”

“About a dozen adjacent land owners showed up at the planning and zoning meeting to protest Outlaw Acres, according to Johnson County planner Rob Yingling. They objected…that the project was 17 miles from the nearest town, Kaycee, so that providing basic services would be a financial burden on the county. Graves said the cost of plowing roads and providing ambulance service to subdivisions such as Outlaw Acres ‘would tax us right out of this nation.’”

“‘It was not a good place for rural subdivision,’ said Yingling flatly. Not one lot in Outlaw Acres sold. The entire 53-acre subdivision is up for sale as a single parcel.”

The Idaho Press Tribune. “Key economic indicators such as the unemployment and foreclosure rate have not reversed their negative trends in recent months, but signs are emerging of better days ahead. Many experts see hope in the fact that those statistics are not getting much worse, either — possibly signaling the end is near for the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.”

“After a record number of default notices totaling 819 in July, the Treasure Valley saw a 10 percent decline in foreclosure starts filed in August, according to IdahoDataProviders. ‘A 10 percent decline is always a good sign, but when we are talking record numbers of 700 to 800 foreclosures month over month like this its still pretty tough to take,’ president Charlie Nate said. ‘Hopefully in the coming months this trend will continue but I am not optimistic that we will see that.’”

“The number of short sales listed on the local market has also shown signs of stability in recent months, although the number continues to rise with August up 2.98 percent with a total of 2,765 short sale listings.”

From KXLY in Idaho. “If you’ve been looking for a truly unique home in North Idaho, the search is over. A barrel shaped drive-in restaurant is the talk of Osburn’s real estate market. The 80-year-old drive-inturned home was originally listed for $249,000, but the price has been slashed on the barrel-shaped domicile to $75,000.”

“Six or seven years ago, someone decided to transform this commercial property into a residential one. Now after being repossessed, this three bedroom, one bath property is for sale. Tomlinson Silver Valley Realty says a dozen or so families have looked but still no takers.”

“‘It has some unique features, lets put it that way,’ said realtor Roger Crigger. ‘Its going to take just the right person to want to buy this house as a home.’”

The Register Guard in Oregon. “Many things drew Ann Marie Mehlum toward a career in banking. She knew the ins-and-outs of the profession from childhood. Her father, Johan Mehlum, began as a teller and eventually became a branch manager and moved into executive positions. He launched Siuslaw Valley Bank — now Siuslaw Bank — in 1964, and remains president and CEO of the 10-branch bank at age 81.”

“Ann Marie Mehlum was at the helm as a group of local investors raised $10 million in capital five years ago and opened Summit Bank. It was Eugene’s first start-up bank in more than 25 years. Q: A common complaint among business people is that banks aren’t willing to loan money right now, or they’re short on capital. Is that true, or are banks just being more cautious or selective?”

“Answer: ‘There are a lot of factors. One is that there’s not near the loan demand that there was. Our pipeline is probably two-thirds of what it was a year ago, and of that pipeline, much less of it would be considered lower-risk, higher credit-quality demand.’”

“‘We are seeing sort of a last-gasp kind of loan demand, that’s really tough to do. It’s interesting, because the last thing that I want to do is make a loan to someone who wants to keep borrowing money to stay in business when deep in my heart of hearts I’m expecting that’s going to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. You can’t be that kind of lender, but that’s tough in these times, because there are people who think if they just had more cash …’”

“‘I think that there is less willingness to take risk on projects that three years ago wouldn’t have seemed so risky. Anything speculative in construction, those are things that just don’t make sense to do right now. Those kinds of projects aren’t being funded. But where are they really being requested? That’s the thing. People think that we’re saying no. We’re not saying no, we’re not being asked.’”

“Q: How long do you expect the fallout from the highly publicized bank failures to last? Answer: ‘The administration is proposing sort of a super regulatory agency to manage the risk (and) figure out how to supervise them. And personally, my view is that will not be effective. I’m really hard-pressed to believe that (with) a $1.7 trillion organization (such as Bank of America), not only can it not be managed very effectively, I don’t think it can regulated very effectively. I just think it’s too big and too complicated.’”

“‘When I know how difficult it is just to really know where our risks are in this organization, the idea that even with an incredible organization and incredible team, that I could understand where the next shoe’s going to drop in a $1.7 trillion bank, to me we’re kidding ourselves.’”

“‘In 1999, that’s when Gramm-Leach-Bliley (the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999) passed, and the essence of that regulation was that it allowed banks to be in the securities business and insurance and all kinds of stuff. I went back and looked at it a couple weeks ago. When it got passed, there was a lot of lip service and a lot of support for it, because they said they were going to make sure that they would not allow companies to get too complicated or too big, to present undue risk.’”

“‘Not to worry — they were going to take care of it, because the argument against that passing was, ‘How are we going to really make sure that these organizations function correctly and don’t take on too much risk and endanger the economy?’ That was all discussed.’”

“‘I went back on the Web site, the FDIC Web site, and … at the time (1999), there were 12,978 banks, with less than $500 million (each in total assets), which comprised 24.5 percent of the total assets of commercial banks (in the United States). There were three that had greater than $100 billion in total assets. And this is where we are today: basically 7,000 of the 8,000 banks (have less than $500 million in total assets). But we’re down to 7.3 percent of the (country’s) total banking assets.’”

“‘Why are we doing this? What is the reason to make the giant companies? They’re not more profitable, either. I don’t know why we’re doing it.’”

“‘I think we have a little opportunity right now in our history to rein this in, but I don’t know if that’s the direction they seem to be taking in Washington. They’re trying to devise some new regulator that’s somehow going to be smarter and better than past regulators. So I’m concerned about the future of it.’”

“Q: How do you break up the behemoths, or make them smaller? Answer: Maybe what you do is give them time, over a certain time frame. One of the things they are saying they’re going to do, but I haven’t heard any number yet, is that if you want to be that big, you’ve got to have a lot more capital, and you’ve got to have a lot more liquidity. The thing is, those giant organizations are so complex and have so many different subsidiaries and everything else, I really don’t think anybody could really (assess) them.’”

“‘When regulators come into our bank, the FDIC usually comes in with like 10 people for two weeks. They can turn over every rock here, and they do. You cannot turn over every rock in a (behemoth bank). What is $1.7 trillion? Can you get your mind around $1.7 trillion? I just don’t see it.’”

“Q: Is the public’s distrust of some of these bigger banks affecting smaller ones such as Summit? Answer: ‘Well, I was somewhere getting my hair cut a few months ago, and the gal asked me what do I do, and I didn’t want to tell her I was a banker. Whereas a few years ago, I was always proud of it.’”

“‘To me, banking has always been a noble thing…It’s something that I’ve always been so proud of. Well, I’m not proud of my big banking brothers, at all…I think that large banks are very, very short-term oriented, and there’s no reason not to be for them when you look at it, the way they’re set up. So I think if we’re going to leave them set up that way, we’re asking for trouble.’”

“‘I think it’s a very important challenge. Capitalism does not work if you can’t be allowed to fail.’”

“‘If you’re looking at quarterly growth and quarterly earnings all the time, then it just sort of goes unbridled. It’s just capitalism gone awry. As a citizen I’m frustrated and angry, and as a banker I’m sad about it.’”

The Williamette Week in Oregon. “When Sharon and Neil Anderson moved from the Bay Area to Portland’s South Waterfront in December 2007, they paid $1.4 million for a 12th-floor condominium with breathtaking views of the Willamette River. Now that same 2,200-square-foot condo elsewhere in the Atwater Place condo building could go this weekend at auction for as little as $699,000—or about half what the Andersons paid less than two years ago.”

“‘You could say that’s disappointing,’ admits Neil Anderson. ‘But there’s no blame to be handed out. That’s just the way it is.’”

“Lloyd Kendrick also lives in the Atwater. He has no regrets about buying his one-bedroom condo in January at $350,000. Those condos were originally priced at more than $500,000, and will now be auctioned off starting at $219,000. ‘If you spent $20,000 on a Mercedes and someone else later got it for $5,000, you might be upset,’ he says. ‘But in the end, you do still get what you wanted.’”




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122 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-09-27 10:45:21

‘Atwater Place: auction results…UPDATE AT 5:30: …’As for the crowd, seems to be a lot of people who are just curious. I saw some developers and brokers I know were here just to check out the numbers. The room was packed. Like Pollock’s auction, the same rock music and loud guys working the floor. They crammed the room to get a standing room only.’

‘I caught 22 sales. The spread from original price to winning bid ran from a 27 percent to 42 percent decline. Most notably, the only penthouse up drew nothing but silence. Not a single bid. It started at $899K.’

—————————–

‘I remember a manager saying: ‘One day these homes will be worth $100,000,’ and we all laughed and laughed and thought he was hysterical. Now, you can’t get anything for under $900,000′

Laugh it up UHS, we’ll see if you people are crying in your Canadian beer before this is all over.

Comment by sm_landlord
2009-09-27 11:38:13

Hi Ben,

Couple of good ones in the LATimes this morning:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover-housing27-2009sep27,0,2185799.story

And this one is amazing:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-perfin27-2009sep27,0,2876588.column

“Housing prices and interest rates are low, making it a great time to buy. And there’s a temporary $8,000 credit available for those who qualify — but hurry, the sale must close by Nov. 30.”

OMG! It’s 2005 again!!!

Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:18:18

Is it ‘groundhogs day’ again
Is it ‘groundhogs day’ again
Is it ‘groundhogs day’ again…

 
Comment by Temporal
2009-09-27 14:41:42

“Temporary” 8000$ credit, I -wish- that was true. That 8k is going to be with us for a good long time.

I don’t want your 8000$, I want an affordable home. I don’t need your fha 3% down payment loan, I want to compete with RESPONSIBLE people who actually have some skin in the game, not kids with a loan from mom who will probably be living rent free in the home a year from now 6 months past-due on the mortgage waiting on the bank to actually forclose, which judging from recent developments isn’t happening for a long time.

Comment by matthew
2009-09-27 15:07:27

touche’ to that…

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Comment by CA renter
2009-09-28 03:44:11

Amen, Temporal!

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Comment by Neil
2009-09-27 15:54:03

ROTFL. Notice this quote in the 2nd link?
“Income

Lenders now figure that you shouldn’t be spending more than 28% to 30% of your gross, or before-tax, income on housing costs, said Greg McBride, senior financial analyst with Bankrate.com. In the past, they’d let you spend as much as 40%.”

Whoa… that’s normal (tight) credit. In no way is it worth buying in LA if that is the loan criteria. There is little (to nothing) most buyers could purchase.

Oh, > 50% DTI was typical during the bubble. 40%? ROTFL. I still see on Broker’s outpost they’re trying to get to 55% DTI. How I wish it was a limit of 30%.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by pismoclam
2009-09-27 17:49:46

L.A.Y. and Liar Lereah told us to get loans (Option ARMs) and not to worry about the ratios. As an aside, have you noticed that LAY looks like the before pictures for a Weight Watchers or Jennie Craig info ad ?

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Comment by mikey
2009-09-27 14:11:51

‘If you spent $20,000 on a Mercedes and someone else later got it for $5,000, you might be upset,’ he says. ‘But in the end, you do still get what you wanted”

lol

Oh Yeah..Sheesh!

Another one RATIONALIZING the Happy Royal Screwing mentality pushed by the UHS and and cars salesmen.

“Oh Boy, Sir, that was Great…may I have another one?”
:)

 
Comment by Zachary
2009-09-27 14:38:53

In reality, Vancouver homes are still worth $100,000. But the 30 palm trees dotting every residential plot of land are worth $800,000.

Planting palm trees in rainy Vancouver is lunacy. It just looks out-of-place with cloudy skies eight months out of the year. On top of that, palm trees alter the fragile ecological environment.

Lake Las Vegas is lunacy. Looking at a man-made lake, when the temperature is 118 degrees, is a little strange.

Let’s get Warren Buffet to build mountains in Omaha. Terrific! Mountain view lots can sell for $300,000. Messing with Mother Nature is not good.

Comment by Skip
2009-09-28 08:08:08

Why the hate for the palm trees?

Comment by DD
2009-09-28 13:27:14

The reason is they aren’t indigenous to that area. When ‘I’ travel to somewhere else, it is because it is going to be different from where I live. Not the same.

Palm Trees not so important, just a symbol of so many things askew.

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Comment by Zachary
2009-09-28 15:30:01

I agree.

Sure, visitors to Vancouver will be saying, “Palm trees in Canada. Wow! I didn’t think Canada had palm trees. I thought Canada had ice hockey, snow, and polar bears.”

Just because some palm trees are hardy enough to survive in Vancouver, doesn’t mean they have to planted. Anyway, it looks crazy. Why mess with Mother Nature.

It costs millions of dollars to replenish the the evaporated water in Lake Las Vegas. When the daily temperature is 115 degrees for four months, a lot of water evaporates. That water has to be replenished, and it’s a waste of money to do this.

 
 
Comment by Zachary
2009-09-28 15:01:29

I don’t hate palm trees.

But I do think planting trees that are not native to an area could have ecological repercussions.

Look at Arizona. Back in the ’20s, ’30s, ’40s, and ’50s many people with respiratory problems, due to pollen, moved to Phoenix and Tucson. The pollen counts were low. For a while!

Then some transplanted folks from the East and the Midwest starting planting trees and vegetation that reminded them of home. Vegetation with relatively high pollen counts.

Now, people with respiratory problems have almost as much trouble breathing in Phoenix as in Muncie or Hartford.

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Comment by Muggy
2009-09-27 15:03:17

“Laugh it up UHS, we’ll see if you people are crying in your Canadian beer before this is all over.”

Lol.

You must understand the nature of a high octane beast like XXX. The ‘nadians do not have the alcohol by volume restrictions like we do.

With these beers there will be chairs through windows… no tears. You have to witness belliegerent curlers to understand. At least they can put all of that granite to use.

Comment by pismoclam
2009-09-27 18:13:51

The ‘rocks’ are from Alsea Craig west of Turnberry. Still love ‘Red Cap’. Too bad they(Dems) are raising the tax on everything here in Calif. Why don’t they just deport the 10 million illrhals and cut the gluttonesh salaries and pensions of the too many gov workers. Problem solved.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-27 18:44:37

Why don’t they just deport the 10 million illrhals and cut the gluttonesh salaries and pensions of the too many gov workers. Problem solved.

Well, why didn’t/don’t the Republicans deport those 10 million illegals? (Or more. It’s more than 10 million, I bet)
After all—they’ve been here for a while. It’s not like they all suddenly arrived since last November?

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-27 19:04:42

Get on board gal

Demos=Bad
Repub=Good

 
Comment by Mot
2009-09-27 23:24:19

Demos=Repub

It’s all the same.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-09-28 05:04:00

we repubs want our cheap labor and docile servants, ya know

 
Comment by alpha-sloth
2009-09-28 07:08:06

BINGO, InMontana. Anyone who thinks the repubs are somehow against illegal immigration has his/her blinders on. Both parties suck on the issue.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-28 10:12:27

Both parties suc*k on the issue.

Testify. Su*ckage squared.
I’m a tree-hugging candy-a*ss liberal and I am also strongly anti illegal-immigration. (This though I spent quite a bit of time on humanitarian projects in southern MX which a lot of Mexicans would like to get OUT of, in order to be here.)
I sure feel sympathy for the people looking for a better life. I’ve seen how a lot of them live, and shoots, if I lived in MX I’d have headed north, too.
But the fact is, illegal immigration creates a giant set of very serious problems here, ranging from the creation of a permanent underclass of what are basically serfs, to an increase in criminal acts, to the loss of natural resources,etc, etc, …there are SO many problems that illegal immigration causes.
And neither party has stepped up to tackle the issue.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-28 10:15:28

Testy!

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-28 11:09:54

“…illegal immigration creates a giant set of very serious problems here, ranging from the creation of a permanent underclass of what are basically serfs, to an increase in criminal acts, to the loss of natural resources,etc, etc…”

Have you read this, Oly?

“A war in the woods”

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060606&slug=salal06m

 
Comment by Elanor
2009-09-28 11:20:39

Olygal, I love your brand of tree-hugging librulism!

 
Comment by Wolf
2009-09-28 13:41:00

Remember, it’s not just ILLEGAL immigration. The LEGAL immigration rate is immense also. Both add up to the US population going beyond its carrying capacity. And where’s the Sierra Club on this issue? They refuse to take a stand on massive population growth. I assume it’s because the Sierra Club likes the fact that third world newcomers vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

So we have the Democrats supporting high levels of immigration, which hurts the working class (competition for jobs)who they claim to support. An increase in the human flow also takes its toll on the environment. Gee, I always thought the Democrats were concerned about the environment. Not as much as wanting more votes.

And then there’s the Republicans who push for more and more immigrants because that’s what corporations want, even though it guarantees losses in future elections.

Both parties are bad on this issue, but I have to give the Republicans the shoot-themselves-in-the-foot award.

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 13:45:12

vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

BS.

It starts off with Republicans since the early 40s= Bracero program and they wanted “cheap costing food” so they started the “Bracero ” program.
And so it goes.
Today the less than 1% of our population, and that of the UK, and Australia owns/controls over 1.9Trillion of $/assets more than the rest of the entire population-99.9%.
We have now a plutonomy which means that the gov writes bills for ONLY the top less than 1%, and no laws that benefit the 99.9 %.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-28 14:15:16

If DD’s analysis is correct, the whole “health care debate” is a lot of distracting noise, since the interests that conflict in that arena are those of various factions within the bottom 99%.

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-28 18:08:34

“We have now a plutonomy which means that the gov writes bills for ONLY the top less than 1%, and no laws that benefit the 99.9 %.”

So, child labor laws, clean water laws, etc., only benefit .1% of the population?

 
 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-28 11:11:26

Did anyone look at the auction results? Those prices are outrageous, still. Those people are speculating, and they’re going to get burned, big time.

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2009-09-27 11:36:21

“Prisoners In Our Own Homes”

In a nutshell, I think this is why the housing market won’t be stabilizing anytime soon, despite whatever BS rhetoric the MSM and NAR dishes out. The bubble years set records for the number of sales, and lots of those folks are indeed prisoners. Can’t trade up because they lack sufficient equity to leverage into a higher priced house. Can’t sell to “cash out” for retirement. Or can’t sell at all because they’re underwater, and likely won’t qualify to buy again anytime soon if they short sell or foreclose.So lots of FB’s are locked out of any kind of repurchase.

And the silly $8K homebuyer credit is fast-forwarding demand from the future, same as C4C, and probably just creating the next round of defaults with 3% down payment FHA loans.

Dead asset class for years, is my guess.

Comment by matthew
2009-09-27 15:30:49

concur…

Comment by Neil
2009-09-27 16:06:42

homebuyer credit is fast-forwarding demand from the future, same as C4C, and probably just creating the next round of defaults with 3% down payment FHA loans.

+1

And momentum isn’t catching. There is no way without a re-bubble… which isn’t happening.

“Flip this house” now has an episode on where they’re flipping a hope that sold for $551k, now foreclosed and sold for $170k to be renovated.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by WeJamEcono
2009-09-28 09:53:42

there is a show now where they help people find a rental…and then decorate the rental for them.

i must admit…i am suprised to see that HGTV has made it through the collapse this far.

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Comment by Elanor
2009-09-28 11:22:46

Too bad it hasn’t prompted them to focus a little more on the “garden” part of their name. And I don’t mean the “let’s raze and rebuild your entire back yard” brand of gardening. :roll:

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-28 12:57:00

“Too bad it hasn’t prompted them to focus a little more on the “garden” part of their name. And I don’t mean the “let’s raze and rebuild your entire back yard” brand of gardening.”

You mean erecting an enormous water feature rivaling the Jet d’eau in Geneva isn’t gardening?

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 13:33:14

There is something like that on early Sun. But you would have to dig under rocks to find that show.
I think it has to do with setting up a garden, but ICBM(Icouldbemistaken).
However, that would be a helpful show for all parts of the US, not just the areas that only have spring/summer for 3 months.

 
 
Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-28 18:14:31

They should make a show called “PILF” this house — which really would be flipping only backwards — where FB’s try to pilfer as much cr@p out of their stucco box; copper pipes, stove, etc., and cash it in to mitigate their losses somewhat.

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Comment by MacAttack
2009-09-28 15:56:10

… or USDA 100% loans! They’re the new deal here outside Portland, along with realtors doubling the tax credit.

 
 
Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:07:10

3rd.

Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:11:45

in Montana. “Russ Squire didn’t anticipate a gravel and asphalt operation across Highway 78 when he planned The Spires, his upscale sustainable subdivision on the northwest edge of Red Lodge. He knew there would be commercial activity across the two-lane road, he said, but no one imagined heavy industry on the picturesque bench above the town. ‘Our investment is toast if this happens,’ Squire said.”

He didn’t look into the citys Master Plan before he did this big “sustainable subdivision”? WTH, well then he deserves to be toast.

If you are buying up land, you are hoping to put forth some great utopia, then you review the Masterplan for the city, county, and community First. Ask the mayor, city planner etc. Sheesh.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-27 16:30:21

If you are buying up land, you are hoping to put forth some great utopia, then you review the Masterplan for the city, county, and community First.

Quit being all sensible and smart, DD. You’re totally harshing my “I Wanna Be Rich Right Away” mellow.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-27 16:55:44

Also, let me now become critical of this ’sustainable subdivision’ cra*p.
‘Sustainable’, huh? Prove it, ya puling craven wretch. Because I know that builders hereabouts certainly started flogging the ’sustainable’ we*enie with great enthusiasm, because they noticed that all the tree-huggers get emotional and happy at the words, but saying something doesn’t make it be so.
For example, were I to walk up to a builder and say brightly, ‘Hi, I’m a brain surgeon. Wanna let me fiddle with your cerebellum? I have a brisket knife right here, and a nice bread-board, too…”
Would they let me go to work?
No.
(And that’s a real pity.)

But I digress.
My point is, prove it. Don’t drivel on about ’sustainable’—PROVE IT!

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Comment by DD
2009-09-27 22:21:47

Sorry Oly. I didn’t mean to ‘harsh your mellow’.

My ability to be logical really harshs my ability to be frivolous.
Let legalize pot , that should help!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-28 10:13:54

My ability to be logical really harshs my ability to be frivolous.

Luckily for me, I don’t have that problem.

Let legalize pot , that should help!

Luckily for me, I don’t have that problem, either. ;)

*inhales deeply *
Hahahah!

 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-09-28 08:11:59

He didn’t look into the citys Master Plan before he did this big “sustainable subdivision”? WTH, well then he deserves to be toast.

Many cities toss out their master plan’s in exchange for a few campaign contributions.

It reminds me of the new housing development in far North Texas some developer built next to a rendering plant. I bet they only had their open houses on weekends when the plant was closed.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-09-27 12:14:59

Too funny DD.

Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:16:44

~~~~giggle~~~~

couldn’t help myself.

 
 
Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:15:19

“Wayne Graves, a tall, lean cattleman from Barnum who sits on the Johnson County planning and zoning commission, has watched land-use debates in the county for a long time. In 2006, a neighboring rancher, Nicky Taylor, divided 53 acres of her property into ‘Outlaw Acres,’ a 20-lot subdivision within sight of the Graves’s front porch.”

NOW we know why little nicky taylors subdivision didn’t get off the board. It wasn’t cause of long distance to plow in winter, it was cause it skrooed up Grave’s view.

Comment by snake charmer
2009-09-27 14:03:25

During an earlier time in global history, “outlaws” were criminals banished from civilized society who could be killed on sight. Now the name is used in a failed attempt to lend cachet to a subdivision marketed to aging Boomers who perceive themselves as rebellious Dennis Hopper types but who are about as controversial as airplane food.

I read a fascinating article a few years ago on how language has been perverted by advertising, with words such as “sinful” and “decadent” converted from perjoratives to buzzwords used to sell chocolate and spa treatments.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-27 16:05:03

Now the name is used in a failed attempt to lend cachet to a subdivision marketed to aging Boomers who perceive themselves as rebellious Dennis Hopper types but who are about as controversial as airplane food.

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh, gosh, thanks, snakey. I really and truly enjoyed reading that.

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Comment by DD
2009-09-27 22:23:10

Boy, sh!t howdy, isn’t that a truism.

“aging Boomers who perceive themselves as rebellious Dennis Hopper types but who are about as controversial as airplane food.”

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-28 14:21:50

Yes and no. The mere escape from state income taxes may be sufficient reason for SOME people to move to Wyoming, and it WOULD make one feel something like an outlaw if one had been accustomed to the Calif govt grab.

 
Comment by DebtinNation
2009-09-28 18:19:54

Anywhere that allows more than a 10-round magazine feels pretty wild to me nowadays.

 
 
Comment by east beach
2009-09-28 09:44:31

“Now the name is used in a failed attempt to lend cachet to a subdivision marketed to aging Boomers who perceive themselves as rebellious Dennis Hopper types but who are about as controversial as airplane food.”

Oooh - dang, that stings :-)

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Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:20:54

“‘In 1999, that’s when Gramm-Leach-Bliley (the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999) passed, and the essence of that regulation was that it allowed banks to be in the securities business and insurance and all kinds of stuff. I went back and looked at it a couple weeks ago. When it got passed, there was a lot of lip service and a lot of support for it, because they said they were going to make sure that they would not allow companies to get too complicated or too big, to present undue risk.’”

“‘Not to worry — they were going to take care of it, because the argument against that passing was, ‘How are we going to really make sure that these organizations function correctly and don’t take on too much risk and endanger the economy?’ That was all discussed.’”

Phil Gramm.

Holy crap. The rest is scarier.

Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2009-09-27 12:40:38

This was one of the points brought up by Moore’s new movie. He even showed a picture of the 4 authors using a chainsaw on the 2000 page stack of regulations they were chucking.

Comment by Eddie
2009-09-28 05:16:05

Did Mikey’s movie mention the CRA by chance?

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-09-28 07:47:53

He even showed a picture of the 4 authors using a chainsaw on the 2000 page stack of regulations they were chucking.

Did they show the 80,000 pages they were adding at the same time?

 
 
Comment by rms
2009-09-27 23:00:53

“Phil Gramm.”

2008 Nobel Laureate in Economics Paul Krugman, a supporter of Barack Obama, described Gramm during the 2008 presidential race as “the high priest of deregulation,” and has listed him as the number two person responsible for the economic crisis of 2008 behind only Alan Greenspan.

Comment by matthew
2009-09-28 05:17:24

I agree… what’s more impressive about these two individuals is I bet there not a sliver of empathy or sense of responsibility to it all… not even a sliver… especially with the arrogant POS Gramm.. Greenspan just thinks he’s more clever than the rest of us with his Greenspan speak… he should have been fired years earlier and gone out to feed the pigeons..

Comment by DinOR
2009-09-28 07:47:51

Let’s do the world a favor and not buy into Ann Marie Mehlum’s garbage too quickly.

The question as originally posed pertained to smaller banks. But she didn’t want to talk about ‘that’. So she runs w/ the fave of all small bankers about “too big to bail” and glosses over the sins of “community” banks.

When they fail ( as many ‘have’ and will continue to ) their collective failure will be every bit the strain on FIDC. I get a little tired of these rinky dinky operators, their fast and loose underwriting standards and their righteous indignation.

Let’s talk about all the loans you clowns wrote to anyone w/ toolbelt and a pick-up truck.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-28 13:01:47

Let’s talk about all the loans you clowns wrote to anyone w/ toolbelt and a pick-up truck.

Thank you, D!

I just returned from my annual pilgrimage to Michigan. It was Homecoming at the Alma Mater. (Ugly football game, BTW. If Michigan keeps playing like that, they’ll be well on their way to another losing season.)

Didn’t take long for real estate stories to find their way into my ears. First one, and it was a doozy, wafted my way while I waiting for my flight from Tucson. Couple of guys got to talking, and one of them described the plight of a young relative and her hubby.

Seems that this couple had purchased an Antioch, CA house for $460k just two years ago. Man said that they’d put $60k into the place — that was the amount they’ve already paid on their 10-year I/O loan — and they didn’t own a single toothpick of the house.

Ouch.

And it gets ouchier. The couple is now doing a short sale for $160k. Man telling the story said, “They just have to bail on this place. They’re never going to own it.”

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 13:41:31

Gotta, gritch here. 2x walkin to Wamu,Chase,JPmorgan and when mentioning that ‘how nice it was to see my tax payer money going to new carpet, drapes, tiling, furniture, and today 2 pallets of 50″ Plasma tvs.’ They then speak of they didn’t take the bailout. I say, ‘yes jpmorgan did’ and they respond that they didn’t ‘want it’, were forced to take it.

Stop me, cause you know where I am going with this…temper is rising-being calm though, and I say, ‘you took it anyway and just because you “gave it back” doesn’t mean it didn’t sit on your books for several months W/O interest.’ It is still a bailout and just cause you didn’t ‘want it’, ‘didn’t use it’ doesn’t mean you didn’t have it. Todays “asst mgr” lackey got all stiff backed and would not talk anymore.

I did suggest she go home and ask her mommy how a “here take this just in case” works.

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 13:57:15

sorry this post above was for higher up.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-09-28 14:30:37

Arizona Slim,

Sorry to hear that. My whole issue w/ these smaller banks was that they had all the latitude in the world to chase whatever bus. they wanted and uh… they all chose Res. RE!

According to the FDIC “Material Loss Review” on our local failed bank ( done any time the hole takes more than $25 mil. for them to fill ) said by the time they went under, over 95% of their loans were ADC. Aquisition, Development and Construction.

They went on… to say that they issued them a “Memorandum of Understanding” that they had concerns about their exposure as early as 2003! ( Wow, if you didn’t need -further- proof this was going off the rails earlier than most care to admit? ) In fact they added that the only regret they had at FDIC was that they didn’t step in SOONER to shut them down!

But they were uh… blind sided by the economy, you know!

 
Comment by EggMan
2009-09-28 15:36:53

Antioch CA is well known in the bay area for being overrun with Section 8 landlords. If it’s one or two, or even three, a community can sort of fight them off over time, sort of like a cold. Once they get above a certain tipping point, whole neighborhoods go right over the cliff, and that’s what’s happened up there. caveat emptor.

 
Comment by Zachary
2009-09-28 16:11:44

No Michigan real estate stories?

The average house price in Detroit is something like $7,500. No, that is not a misprint.

A couple of days ago, the WSJ profiled the many twists and turns of an early 1990s upscale house in a once upscale inner-Detroit neighborhood. It was an interesting article.

 
Comment by Zachary
2009-09-28 16:19:24

Correction! Early 1900s house.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-28 07:55:16

We all know that the little people deserve to suffer during times of economic crisis. Its their own fault for not being highly above average or a trust fund baby.

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Comment by pismoclam
2009-09-28 15:51:01

Graham is just like the present ivory tower Haavad yard idiots like Summers and by degree idiot Krugman and Bernanki from Princeton in the Obama administration. I can just hear Summers saying,’ Well guys, this last thing didn’t work ’cause we got a million more unemployement, what do we do now?’. ‘Oh, I know, call little sulzberger at the times or Chavez in Venzuela and they will let us know’.

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Comment by WeJamEcono
2009-09-28 10:00:17

who signed the bill…just curious?

Comment by pismoclam
2009-09-28 15:53:26

Hint - who said what the de finition of ‘is’ is ? Bingo. I knew you’d get it.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-09-27 12:21:35

“exacerbating matters in Montana are the state’s high foreclosure rates, which are particularly prevalent in the Flathead.”

Just two years ago, they were whining and moaning that there wasn’t enough affordable housing for all workers moving in to build more houses.

It’s always something.

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-27 12:22:27

Capitalism does not work if you can’t be allowed to fail.’”

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-27 13:29:53

That Vancouver Sun article sounds reads like it was written by a not-particularly-bright schoolkid.

Comment by northof49
2009-09-27 14:12:15

No kidding, that is the worstly written article since my post is now!

 
Comment by Natalie
2009-09-27 15:22:02

You are too kind. Rather than written by a school kid, it looks like it was written by the average real estate agent. 50% refuse to work in fast food because they are not competent enough. The other 50% refuse because they believe the uniforms detract from their new plastic surgery. When you pay that much for a face and boobs, you dont want to wear a grease stained shirt. When slow at work they sometimes try to write. It’s not particularly coherent, but is rather comical.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-27 19:32:17

I take your point, Natalie. The worst written pieces of mail I used to get were the ones from realtors wanting to buy or sell my house, ridiculous.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-28 08:27:04

Not surprising. My wife has a realtor friend who had to drop her private insurance because the premiums had ballooned to $800 per month (not selling houses doesn’t help either).

We were discussing healthcare reform and like a good American she expressed her disdain and opposition to socialized healthcare. “We don’t want to end up with something like what they have in Sweden” was her objection.

I was flummoxed. Here was a woman, in her late 50’s, in poor health and uninsured. She really believed that the status quo was preferable. I also know a fellow (a Baptist minister, also uninsured) whose wife is dying of terminal breast cancer. Had she been screened earlier they might have detected her illness before it was too late, but they couldn’t afford the mamograms. He too is opposed to socialized medicine even though a special state program is helping to pay the bills. Of course now its too late.

Because I am insured I get an annual checkup. Two years ago they found something in my fecal samples. I went in for a colonoscopy and they found 3 polyps, and one of them was of the “bad kind” that can become cancerous. It was removed of course and a follpwup colonoscopy this year found nothing (fortunately). Had I been uninsured there was a good chance that the pre-cancerous polyp would have become cancerous, and I would have met an early, painful and expensive demise.

Most of my coworkers have opted for the low cost, high deductible insurance policy they offer here. Of course since they have huge deductibles it means that if they were to see the doctor for anything they would have to pay the full amount. Translation: they are not getting the cost effective, preventive care that they need. Some are very obese, and when I share that I have mild hypertension which is successfully treated with affordable meds I often get remarks like “I should get that checked out.” When I remind them that most pharmacies have automatic blood pressure readers that anyone can use they begin to hem and haw. They already know that they have hypertension but don’t get treated for a simple reason: it costs money. Of course, they all have a 50″ flatscreen in their living rooms. Gotta watch those Broncos every weekend.

Now its one thing for stupid adults to not get the treatment they need, but then you wonder about their kids. How many have received all their inoculations? The schools here do ask to see records, but its easy to opt out (hey, they gotta accomodate the illegals right?).

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Comment by DinOR
2009-09-28 11:15:31

In Colorado,

Solid summation, and great cross-section of people and their HC circumstances. The first thing “I” always try to get out of the way is that; just b/c I have some reservations about a Public Option ( doesn’t mean I’m a cheer leader for the Status Quo )

Secondly, a good friend had a great suggestion I thought made a lot of sense. By creating ( very simply ) a nominal policy that takes care of American worker’s “final expenses” long term care and “Last 90 Days of Life” we could spare ourselves a -whole- lot of heartache.

Since much of the cost ‘of’ HC comes in the last 90 days, younger workers would have about 50 years of accumulation prior to needing it. Or opting out of treatment and willing it to their heirs. Thought it made sense.

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-09-28 11:30:40

“…….don’t get treated for a simple reason: it costs money.”

And, once diagnosed, it becomes a “pre-existing condition”. In which case you can’t get insurance at ANY PRICE.

 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-09-28 12:43:05

Yup, my folks, both old school midwestern GOPs, sure changed their tune when Medicare picked up much of the tab for my dad’s heart surgery & chemo. It’s sky-is-falling “socialized medicine” until you start getting the hospital bills. And if you’re not old enough to qualify for Medicare, you’re out of luck. I’m not saying what’s proposed is the right answer, but the status quo certainly isn’t working. As long as doctors and hospitals have 10 different charges for the same procedure depending on who’s paying, there’s a problem. We pay way more for health care administration then any other country, and we’ve created an environment where doctors have such high debt from med school that they end up applying their life-saving skills to plumping out lips & wrinkles.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-28 13:00:49

And, once diagnosed, it becomes a “pre-existing condition”. In which case you can’t get insurance at ANY PRICE.

Funny how every state has assigned risk pools so “bad drivers” can purchase auto insurance, but few have the equivalent for “pre-existing conditions” which goes to show that we value property more than we value people in this country.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-28 13:04:48

Most of my coworkers have opted for the low cost, high deductible insurance policy they offer here. Of course since they have huge deductibles it means that if they were to see the doctor for anything they would have to pay the full amount.

I have one of those policies. Supposedly, the high deductible part is intended to bring health care costs down. I’ve never experienced such a thing. Instead, I’m socked with the full rate on everything, and no one, save one dentist’s office, has ever offered any sort of deal for paying up front.

As for that dentist’s office, they gave me free X-rays once.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-28 13:07:34

We pay way more for health care administration then any other country, and we’ve created an environment where doctors have such high debt from med school that they end up applying their life-saving skills to plumping out lips & wrinkles.

I hear ya, SaladSD. Here’s the deal in Tucson, aka the skin cancer capital of the United States. If you’re fair-skinned like I am, you’re supposed to get screened by a dermatologist once a year, but…

…there’s a big problem with this idea. Many of them have oriented their practices away from medical dermatology (which includes such things as skin cancer screenings and treatments) and toward cosmetic dermatology. This isn’t just a local trend, it’s nationwide. The New York Times reported on it in a July 28, 2008 article, “As Doctors Cater to Looks, Skin Patients Wait.”

This happened in the local dermatology practice that I patronized for 16 years. I noticed that more and more fuss was being made over the guys and gals who were there for wrinkle-smoothing.

Matter of fact, the last time I was there, I saw an elderly man standing in the waiting room. Did any of the staff come out to help him find a seat or offer him a cup of coffee while he waited? No.

I figured that, like me, the elderly man was there for some sort of medical reason, and that in the grand scheme of things, we no longer mattered.

Needless to say, I no longer patronize that dermatology practice. I now see a physician assistant, and her manner is delightfully free of the condescension I used to experience at the dermatologist’s office.

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 13:51:44

plumping out lips & wrinkles.

If they had a sliding scale for that..sighh

lol

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 14:01:11

Had the same experience with a high fallutin derm doc who looked at my body from across the room.
Now all jokes aside, you can’t see skin issues just from the front, 10′away or such. You have to turn someone around and lift arms etc. look under long locks of hair etc. In Slim and my part of the country, docs should be looking all ovah the body.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-09-28 14:28:22

I am extremely happy with Blue Cross Blue Shield of AZ’s 1$10K-deductible policy. Since it’s a PPO, yes, certain services are provided at reasonable rates ($40 office visits in whatever state I happen to be traveling in). Sorry you are not enjoying yours, AzSlim. Is it BCBS or something else?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-09-28 14:38:32

A ten thousand dollar deductible is a tad more than I can afford.

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-28 15:27:43

I was happy too, with my individual catastrophic BC policy , until I was unlucky enough to get Staphylococcus Aureus (a deadly, antibiotic resistant bacterial infection) in my intestines, and had the fight of my life (in terms of physcially and financially)to get BC to pay up. I was coached by an Attorney, and eventually won the claims paid.

You just never know what’s coming your way. That was one risk I had no idea was awaiting me. You don’t know your insurance co, until you really need them.

 
Comment by Joe Lawyer
2009-09-28 20:58:22

Lots of people want others to pay their bills. Not everyone is a hypocrite when they are faced with the realities of their situation. It is admirable that they are not looking for me to pay their way.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by matthew
2009-09-27 15:18:53

“‘When I started, bungalows were $17,000 or $18,000,’ Kolterhoff recalled. ‘I remember a manager saying: ‘One day these homes will be worth $100,000,’ and we all laughed and laughed and thought he was hysterical. Now, you can’t get anything for under $900,000.”…

It never ceases to amaze me as to the level of ignorance and arrogance in the real estate industry… Mr. Kolterhoff needs to break out his financial calculator (I know that’s a stretch) and do the math.. $900K… yea righto… in Vancouver, no less…

Here’s a prediction there Mr. Kolterhoff… those cute bungalos’ will be going for under $500K before the end of next year… I also predict that good old Sharon and Neil Anderson will walk on their Willamette view condo before the end of next year when that same condo will go for $450K vice $699K for a $800K haircut…

how’s them apples..

Comment by Natalie
2009-09-27 15:24:52

Why throw $2,200 in rent down the drain each month, when you can buy for $5,000 a month and have the pride of ownership?

 
 
Comment by matthew
2009-09-27 15:22:18

correction… more like a $900K haircut… still priced high at $450K for a view condo in Portland in this economy…

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-09-27 16:39:18

From The Olympian in Washington: “Downtown’s historic Capitol Theater building, which was put up for sale in April, has a new selling price and a new tenant.

I sometimes eat very tasty meals at Darby’s, across the street from the historic Capitol Theater building. It’s a nice building, especially now the interesting stained-glass work has been revealed, but in my not-very-humble opinion, there is NO WAY it’s worth 1.8 million freakin’ dollars. Wha…?! That’s absurd. And the new ‘bargain rate’ of 1.45 million is STILL ridiculous.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-09-28 17:25:23

They’re not going to just “give it away”….

 
 
Comment by DD
2009-09-27 22:26:30

PBS is having a Ken Burns series on THE NATIONAL PARKS.
Our treasures.
Sun-Sun
8-10pm

Amazing photography and history.

Just an uplifting Real Estate subject.

Comment by Elanor
2009-09-28 11:33:24

Not just uplifting, but timely too. The battle to preserve some of our most beautiful real estate for all to enjoy has been going on since at least the mid-1800s. The hucksters and would-be exploiters with absolutely no interest in anything but making a quick buck have been around a looooong time. We are all fortunate that there were people opposing them who made their voices heard.

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-09-28 16:01:49

Let’s build condos in Yosemite ! hehahehehahahaha

 
 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-28 05:10:00

My sister lives in Toronto with her husband. One of her friends sold her house in less than a week for more than she asked. But she then started freaking out that she was getting outbid on everything she was trying to buy and would be homeless since she had to be out of the sold home in a few weeks. Then this weekend she finally had an offer accepted. I got all this from Facebook postings. I saw the pictures of the new place, nice, but needs lots of work. Price? $612K for a 3 bedroom. Ouch.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-28 06:04:04

She needs a shrink not an overpriced bankrupting house…but its too late to save this wacko from her own self destructive needs..

——————————–
But she then started freaking out

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-09-28 08:00:16

So how is it that people are outbidding each other on 600K houses? Does the average Torontoan make 200K per year? Do they still have suicide loans in Canada? How much does a starter home go for? Do prices drop as you move out to the exurbs?

Comment by Al
2009-09-28 11:09:55

“Does the average Torontoan make 200K per year?”

Q3 2008 data for Toronto
Median Income: $67,100
Median House Price: $324,700
Multiple: 4.8

“Do they still have suicide loans in Canada?”

5% down, 35 year amorization, 1-5 year term mostly, 2.5% - 5%interest rate (usually variable). I’d call that suicidal (very interest rate sensitive).

“How much does a starter home go for?”

Condos go as cheap as $50K. Freehold start over $150K. These properties would need some work.

“So how is it that people are outbidding each other on 600K houses?”

Stuuuuupidity.

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-28 14:39:35

I have no idea what people earn in Toronto on average or what houses in the exurbs cost. I’m telling you an anecdotal story that confirms what that Globe and Mail article says. I doubt the average income is $200K, I also don’t think you need $200K to buy a $600K.

The friend is an accountant of sorts, her husband is a school principal. So you figure out what they earn. $150K a year combined would be my guess, maybe a little more. I met them at my sister’s wedding, got along really well, didn’t ask for W2s.

Comment by Eddie
2009-09-28 16:18:40

Median Income: $67,100
Median House Price: $324,700

—————–

Compare the 4.8 ratio to LA with $53K median income, (census) and $330K median house price (for the country) which works to 6.2. OK fine, LA is a bad example. How about Atlanta then? Median income $42,000, median house price $177,000. Ratio of 4.2.

It’s not that out of whack with other cities in N. America.

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Comment by MacAttack
2009-09-28 16:03:39

Homeless? Do they not rent apartments in Toronto?

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-28 17:30:00

Nah that’s for the LOWER class…ugh rentazzzz

 
 
 
Comment by Maltose
2009-09-28 07:43:17

…….. said realtor Roger Crigger. ‘Its going to take just the right person to want to buy this house as a home.’”

I really despise this phrase. It’s like everyone else that doesn’t buy just isn’t “right” enough and it’s their loss. More like not enough of a sucker.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-09-28 08:02:29

Sounds like the typical MLM spiel:

This opportunity may not be right for you.

Yeah the opportunity to work for Negative income.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-09-28 10:43:18

For all the lying realtorscum reading…… (we know you’re reading)

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Comment by exeter
2009-09-28 11:52:08

grrrr….ascii art doesn’t to work.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-09-28 11:56:49

guillotine?

 
Comment by DD
2009-09-28 14:03:36

Flipping , only it isn’t a house. I think it looks like a bird.

 
 
Comment by JackO
2009-09-28 16:00:50

Most people will never learn that the 3-4 times yearly income was really necessary for successful home buying.
Bought my first home in 1952, realtor ask yearly salary, and said I will show you homes you can afford. I will sell you homes that you can not afford, if you wish, as a large part of my sales consist of resales where the buyers bought houses they couldn’t afford, financial troubles led to divorce, and I got to sell the houses after the divorce.

I took his comments to heart and let him sell me a house I could afford. 3Br 1 Bath , concreteslab, no carpets , no builtins, but 8,000 square foot lot for $11,500! sold it 4 years later for $12,500 but had to pay 4 points on new loan, and 6 percent commission. lost money!
Next house , new $15,500, held it for 6 years sold it for $16,500. Next house new $15,750 held it four years, sold it for $16,500 with 6% commission and 8 points, lost money!
Still living in next house so haven’t lost money on this one, free and clear now.

JackO

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-28 16:54:39

JackO-
Wow, 1952, was your first home purchase. Now that’s in “the way back machine”. Then on to a few more puchases/sales, until you settled in the toe tag home.

Any feedback on how neighbors changed over time?
What made you settle in this house, life circumstances or home love?

 
 
Comment by will
2009-09-28 17:25:35

They pretend to sell us houses and we pretend to pay for them.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-09-28 17:40:32

will-
That’s what is so frustrating right now. We want to buy our toe tag house out right, and all this FHA insured/Fannie/Freddie monopoly $ is keeping prices artificially inflated. Add that $8,000- tax credit (for sheeples) and the toxic cocktail continues.

Comment by CA renter
2009-09-29 01:49:02

“Toe Tag House” I like it! :)

That’s what we are looking for, and we are growing more frustrated every day because of all the manipulation.

Just let prices fall to where they need to go already!!!! Ack! :(

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-09-28 19:00:27

LOL… Nice one, will!

 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-09-28 20:01:26

The Real Reasons Behind Fed Secrecy
by Ron Paul

Last week I was very pleased that the Financial Services Committee held a hearing on the Federal Reserve Transparency Act, HR 1207. The bill has 295 cosponsors and there is also strong support for the companion bill in the Senate. This hearing was a major step forward in getting the bill passed.

I was pleased that the hearing was well-attended, especially considering that it was held on a Friday at nine o’clock in the morning! I have been talking about the immense, unchecked power of the Federal Reserve for many years, while the attention of Congress was always on other things. It was gratifying to see my colleagues asking probing questions and demonstrating genuine concern about this important issue as well.

The witness testifying in favor of HR 1207 made some very strong points, which was no surprise considering the bill is simply common sense. It was also no surprise that the witness testifying against the bill had no good arguments as to why a full audit should not be conducted promptly. He attempted to make the case that the fed is already sufficiently accountable to Congress and that the current auditing policy is adequate. The fact is that the Fed comes to Congress and talks about only what it wants to talk about, and the GAO audits only what the current laws allow to be audited. The really important things however, are off limits. There are no convincing arguments that it is in the best interests of the American people for anything the Fed does to be off limits.

It has been argued that full disclosure of details of funding facilities like TALF and PDCF that enabled massive bailouts of Wall Street would damage the financial position of those firms and destabilize the economy. In other words, if the American people knew how rotten the books were at those banks and how terribly they messed up, they would never willingly invest in them, and they would fail. Failure is not an option for friends of the Fed. Therefore, the funds must be stolen from the people in the dark of night. This is not how a free country works. This is not how free markets work. That is crony corporatism and instead of being a force for economic stabilization, it totally undermines it.

If the Fed gave its actual arguments against a full audit, they would not have mentioned anything about political independence or economic stability. Instead they would admit they don’t want to be audited because they enjoy their current situation too much. Under the guise of currency control, they are able to help out powerful allies on Wall Street, in exchange for lucrative jobs or who-knows-what favors later on. An audit would expose the Fed as a massive fraud perpetrated on this country, enriching a privileged few bankers at the top of our economic food chain, and leaving the rest of us with massively devalued dollars which we are forced to use by law. An audit would make people realize that, while Bernie Madoff defrauded a lot of investors for a lot of money, the Fed has defrauded every one of us by destroying the value of our money. An honest and full accounting of how the money system really works in this country would mean there is not much of a chance the American people would stand for it anymore.

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-09-29 08:56:46

Case-Shiller up for 3rd straight month. But that is more proof of a continuing collapse in prices because ___________________________

If the answer includes the $8K rebate being cut off, that doesn’t count since it is all but guaranteed to be extended and most likely increased to $15K.

 
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