Bits Bucket For October 2, 2009
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The Housing Bubble
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Name:Ben Jones
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Banks With 20% Unpaid Loans at 18-Year High Amid Recovery Doubt.
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) — The number of U.S. lenders that can’t collect on at least 20 percent of their loans hit an 18-year high, signaling that more bank failures and losses could slow an economic recovery.
Units of Frontier Financial Corp.,Towne Bancorp Inc. and Steel Partners Holdings LP are among 26 firms with more than one-fifth of their loans 90 days overdue or not accruing interest as of June 30 — a level of distress almost five times the national average — according to Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. data compiled for Bloomberg News by SNL Financial, a bank research firm. Three reported almost half of their loans weren’t being paid.
While regulators may not force firms on the list to close, requiring them to raise capital and curb loans may impede recovery in Florida, Illinois and seven other states. The banks are among the most vulnerable of a larger group of lenders whose failures the FDIC said could cost $100 billion by 2013.
“There are some zombie banks out there,” said Bert Ely, chief executive officer at Ely & Co., a bank consulting firm in Alexandria, Virginia. “Neither the banking industry nor the economy benefits from keeping weak banks in business.”
Ninety-five banks have failed this year at the fastest pace in almost two decades, depleting the FDIC’s insurance fund. The agency proposed on Sept. 29 that financial firms prepay three years of premiums, which would add $45 billion of reserves. The fund sank to $10.4 billion as of June 30, the lowest since 1993. It will run at a deficit starting this quarter, the agency said.
“There are some zombie banks out there,” said Bert Ely, chief executive officer at Ely & Co., a bank consulting firm in Alexandria, Virginia. “Neither the banking industry nor the economy benefits from keeping weak banks in business.”
Well then it must be time to make more mortgage loans on unaffordably-priced houses in order to qualify more households to turn themselves into zombies…It’s all good, so long as the loans are taxpayer guaranteed, in which case the lender gets made whole if the loan gets added to the 20% of unpaid loans.
Zombie people are good for the ’system’. Zombie banks are bad because they quit churning out new zombie people.
What this zombie move is missing is brainsssss!
How is it that zombie people are good for the ’system’?
they keep shopping, keep paying mortgage, no walk away… zombie good consumer
How is it that zombie people are good for the ’system’?
LLllloooannnzzzz!!!
What are the odds that five or more banks get closed today, bringing us to or above 100 for the year?
Come on, HBBers! You know you’re as excited about that prospect as I am!
Chile:
FDIC is broke, which is why the past 2 Fridays have been relatively uneventful despite Corus. I don’t see much scope for action today unless FDIC suddenly discovers a lot of change between the cushions (a.k.a. rich foreign investor).
Chile:
FDIC is broke, which is why the past 2 Fridays have been relatively uneventful despite Corus. I don’t see much scope for action today unless FDIC suddenly discovers a lot of change between the cushions (a.k.a. rich foreign investor).
Far from it - the FDIC has a $500 Billion line of credit approved. They surely won’t hesitate to use it.
What choice do they have? If a bank becomes insolvent - imagine the all-out panic if the FDIC told those that thought their deposits were insured “Sorry!”.
Guys, there could be a much more simple answer. September 30th is the government end of fiscal year. People have meetings and reports and stuff to finish. If you keep changing your stats up to the very last second, you never have an accurate report to give to your boss and if you are out on travel status you don’t have time to write up what you do have. A very brief pause on major new things is not entirely unexpected.
Polly - agreed, but the end of the fiscal year was Wednesday. So the expense reports from last weeks trips are already in (hence only one bank failure). Now that we’re in a new fiscal year, and the reports start to trickle in from FY2009….BAAMO!
I can dream, can’t I?
http://www.zombiehunters.org/
Time to send in the Zombie Squad to clean things up. “We’ll handle it from here - we’ve read about this on the Internet.”
This whole scam is one big cover up. The PTB are trying desperately to keep lipstick on this pig. Unfortunately, he’s starting to rot.
This whole extend and pretend game the Fed is playing is a disservice to this county, it’s people, and capitalism itself. People like Geithner and Bernanke should be run out of office with pitchforks, literally.
This reminds me. I’m going to watch Zombieland in the theater.
Ha ha. I had been planning to go to the Michael Moore movie late afternoon matinee today. This morning I decided I’ll go to Zombieland instead and catch the other tomorrow.
I enjoyed his first two movies, but didn’t see Fahrenheit 911.
I heard there were glaring factual errors.
Going to his capitalism movie might be a bit much to handle. Because of his political associations, you’d figure a lot of it will be about increasing regulation. I’d agree with that.
However, he’d probably not have much to say about Greenspan, Fre/fna,FHA, Clinton and Rubin… so his old buddies.
Might be as stupid as Al Gore’s children movie on the environment.
I’d be very surprised to Michael Moore had anything to say about Chuckie Schumer raking in big campaign bucks from the financial services sector. I like Moore’s movies, but he’s pretty selective in his choice of villains.
Zombieland was sold out, so I went to Capitalism tonight.
It wasn’t “too much to handle.” It was a Michael Moore film, which I enjoy. But I don’t take his films as history or documentary - he uses documentary evidence to play on emotions and make points, uses amusing found video and does pranks. His films are pamphlets, polemics, and do that well. I think they provoke discussion among people crossing the cable TV - talk radio lines.
I wouldn’t make too much of Moore’s political associations, although his liberalism and populism are clear. Remember that a previous attempt by him to rouse the populace succeeded in increasing youth support of Ralph Nader in 2000 and secured W’s election. He’s not a Dem.
Greenspan, Clinton, Rubin don’t come off well at all, nor does Dodd. That Obama portended a change is noted, but then the amount of money Goldman Sachs put into his campaign is pointed out.
“There are some zombie banks out there,” said Bert Ely, chief executive officer at Ely & Co., a bank consulting firm in Alexandria, Virginia.
And there are zombie voters who keep returning corrupt politicians of BOTH parties to office, where they will pocket campaign payola from the financial “services” industry and REIC in exchange for voting for bailouts and otherwise socializing risk and privatizing rewards.
As the Hooters once said, all you zombies hide your faces.
All you people in the streets.
I liken my engineering career to the zombie squad. Basically a bunch of the best and brightest from MIT/Cal Tech exc with advanced degrees and about zero experience show up. Make a bunch of good graphs and bad designs. Blow all the schedule and budget. Then before they can be blamed about the bad performance scuttle off to destroy some other project.
Along comes the call to the zombie squad. Another living dead project. No hope of making the schedule. Not a lot of hope of fixing things the right way. So what we do. Figure out all sorts of heroic measures for making things work. Eventually it gets fixed while a lot of beatings have been administered.
The B&B show back up for some credit; while blaming the zombie squad for blowing the budget and not understanding the brilliance of their plan. Some calls to corporate are made and the connected are whisked away to new exciting assignments.
The zombie squad goes off to the next disaster.
Once in a rare while, they acknowledge the services rendered. We get to keep the occasional zombie head.
Question/request, for those in the know please -
I’m thinking about getting some land in the mountains in the next couple of years, with the idea of someday adding a cabin or house, for vacation and/or eventual retirement. I know there are tons of issues to think about - zoning, percolation, etc.; most of which I’m somewhat aware of, but want to delve into the details, and make sure I don’t miss things.
Can anyone point to some really good reference material on the subject?
Thanks in advance.
Area I’m thinking of is VA/WVA, or possibly NC/TN.
“WVA”
Stick to NC. Maybe somewhere not too far from Asheville, which seems to have a good thing going for retirees.
WVA? Fahgeddaboudit. Percolation is a huge problem there, it’s been just about destroyed by coal mining, take a bath and you break out in weeping sores. Big problems.
N.C. is the best, no matter where you move. It’s starting to be like florida used to be, with everyone and their mother coming….
Half the people in NC are ex-Floridians who can’t stand Florida anymore.
Half the people in NC are ex-Floridians who can’t stand Florida anymore.
Didn’t we give Florida to the Puerto Ricans in the ’80’s?
I think there was a TV show where Don Johnson handed over the keys to the state to some guy with three names.
If you’ve been to Orlando lately, it would seem we have.
Didn’t we give Florida to the Puerto Ricans in the ’80’s?
Nope. Cubans.
Not to mention, about half the populace of West Virginia look like extras from “The Hills have Eyes.”
If you ar thinking about it for retirement, please consider the availability of reasonable medical care, both preventative and emergency in the area. Yah don’t want to hit your 70’s and be 3 hours from the nearest hospital.
Take it from my in-laws, who will be moving from a house on a hill in the Catskill mountains to a downtown in a month.
“I’m thinking about getting some land in the mountains in the next couple of years,”
I knew the mania was still alive and well out on main street but I thought it was dead on this blog.
Lots of Kool-Aid swilling, still.
Oh, I don’t know. Longing for pine needles, stars at night and maybe an annual gourd festival down the road doesn’t sound too manic to me.
If it were me, I’d pick Kentucky. I miss the place.
LOL - OK not manic, sorry. In case you guys haven’t noticed prices *have* come down a lot. I’m giving it more time, which is why I say in the next couple of years instead of right now. Doesn’t hurt to learn in the meantime.
“In case you guys haven’t noticed prices *have* come down a lot.”
I cannot speak for WV, NC, VA, or anywhere in that neck of the woods, but I can say that raw land prices WA, CA, and other west coast states remains at bubble levels. In fact, there is not a lot of land listed right now. A lot of it is just sitting on banks books, valued far and above what it would ever garner in the current marketplace. There is a concerted effort by all parties to NOT sell this land for market value.
“I’m thinking about getting some land in the mountains in the next couple of years,”
“In case you guys haven’t noticed prices *have* come down a lot.”
Price is not the point. If I had a nickel for everytime I heard that first little gem.
Look around yourself and see how many of these same Grizzly Adams wanna-be’s are now;
a) Flat Broke
b) Regretful
c) Lonely from being hours and hours away from friends and family
“Look around yourself and see how many of these same Grizzly Adams wanna-be’s are now;”
d) Scared after the hillbilly’s burglarized and stole all of their stuff of value, and treated them like dirt.
The Mountain thing sounds great…in addition to the above posts I’d like to add that mother nature keeps coming at you. I’m amazed by the pruning, cutting, chainsawing, poisoning, hauling…pest control, vine control required just to maintain my 1 acre suburban spread.
A buddy of mine bought a remote mountain property in WV years ago. It was clear and beautiful when purchased - two years later we spent a long week end that was supposed to be relaxing, filling in and grading the access drive, just so we could get to the house site.
The rest of the week-end was spent whacking back the forest that had gobbled the property up in short order.
Or have to go shovel snow to get your car out of the garage before you can get to medical care.
I had a roommate in New Hampshire who had a jeep with a plow, he backed into the garage….and plowed his way out to the street….what a nice guy to have as a roommate
Spot on Polly…
Yup! This is a concern my dad had about medical care. If I buy real estate up in the mountains, I would only buy bare land and with plenty of water. I would go there on weekends and camp out in an RV or even just pitch a tent! It’s easier to sell bare land if it has good features (plenty of water, view, utilities) than if you put a house on it.
I would not want to own any land if I was past 70. I’d be mostly in treasuries.
To extend Polly’s point, also think about what you mean by “mountains.” Do you need really steep mountains, or just want to avoid pancake land? Places with a postcard view are very expensive; you’re likely just have a view of trees. Do you want lots of forest cover, or some open space? Farmland or just plain open land? How far do you want to be away from people, really? (think stuff like calling 911) High altitude will make the climate seem a lot colder than the latitude would suggest. etc.. And once you get off the highway, it’s amazing how hilly even nondescript country can be. I’m thinking slippery driveways in the winter. (The city I grew up in looks like a flat part on the map, but it has steep hills right in the middle of the city.)
You might want to take a look at southern Indiana and eastern Ohio. They are definitely not where the cool kids retire.
Well yeah I pretty much know all that - I’ve been *to* the mountains plenty of times - touring, camping, hiking, etc. I’ve just never owned land there; though years ago I had a friend who did, though I’m not in touch with him anymore.
Generally I do want something that’s pretty much in the sticks. I know emergency care is an issue of course, and I’m aware of the pluses and minuses of various areas (e.g. near Asheville etc. - I grew up near there actually). I was thinking more just about land/ownership logistics - e.g. utilities - what are the rules for bringing in power and phone for instance; I know in some cases you have to pay for the main runs yourself, but other cases maybe not. Other things like animal control and fire control come to mind, as well as percolation like I say (e.g. I would imagine having a septic system next to a river might be an issue).
I was wondering if others here had gone through looking into all that, and maybe could recommend some good books or online sites that delve deeply into the subject.
Ideally I’d like acreage, with at least some view and some water like a creek and/or pond. Yeah I know it can be expensive, depending on how far you go with it.
Visit Ben and go between Flag and NW AZ. Some pretty stuff and flat areas in sticks, gets snow, has water, but Ben would know better. It is pretty though.
Look west of Romney WV. My sister-in-law lives in Romney and I love the old hometown feel. If you want to buy something small in town my sister-in-law is looking to move back towards the DC area.
About 5 years ago I looked at some land about an hour north of Chattanooga pretty much middle of nowhere. It was appealing and cheap, something like $45K for 3 acres on top of a mountain in a gated community with 2-5 acre lots. Until I went and spent a couple of days there and the appeal quickly went away. As a vacation home, awesome. To live year round, the boredom would have killed me.
“$45K for 3 acres on top of a mountain in a gated community with 2-5 acre lots.”
Yuck.
One aspect of buying mountain property is the worry about fire danger.
My dad was into real estate in the central Sierra Nevada mountains of California in the 1950s and 1960s, buying and selling. Although legally blind as a result of WWII, he would clear the land using a tractor and long chains with the tractor at one end and the other end of the chain clamped somewhere. Clearing the land of overgrowth (grasses and shrubs) is very important to limit the fire danger. My dad was very unique and creative, not letting a handicap get in his way. He was very physical and loved the outdoors, so clearing land was fun for him.
My dad took it seriously. He was also very good at locating artesian wells.
Make sure you have good sources of clean water and that you can get reasonable (in terms of cost) access to utilities.
He was also very good at locating artesian wells
He was a dowser? What was his technique?
He was a dowser? What was his technique?
LOL - I remember seeing that a lot years ago. A lot of reports made a pretty good case for it actually, though I think in the end it’s urban legend. A fun one nonetheless.
G-ma did it, so does dad, but he looks for old graves. G-ma had dousing down pat. Gifted 100yr old.
I hate to mention it since I’m a skeptic. But yes, he was a dowser and claimed to have 100% success.
Also my dad did his own digging. An auger type of tool and you could add extensions to it. Water wells are certainly not oil wells where you have to dig two or more miles. I remember using that auger tool to help plant shrubs in Fresno years later. It’s tough and will make you tough if you use it often enough.
I wonder if the technique works because you get some magnetic field variation when you get near the water.
Meh. Permittivity (permativity??) variations. Lots of biological creatures are sensitive to the magnetic fields. Heck, your eyes are an electro-optic sensor.
“My dad was very unique and creative, not letting a handicap get in his way. He was very physical and loved the outdoors, so clearing land was fun for him.”
Clearing land, and working one’s own property is fun. Too bad it’s primarily reserved for the wealthy, now. Since the government got away from allowing small homesteads, and started marketing vast acreages to wealthy developers, the little guy got screwed.
I have to say GB - you’re one cynical person. You should lighten up.
There are still tons of areas that developers don’t have much interest in, especially now.
You’re just mad because I disagreed with you yesterday. That said, I’ve never believed in telling anyone how to act, and I certainly don’t adhere to suggestions regarding my own behavior- especially from Repubs. Call me a cynic- whatever you want, I don’t care, but don’t ever expect me to change.
Thanks. Yeah I am somewhat aware of the fire danger from living in CA - I know many places had laws that you were *required* to clear out underbrush and/or grass occasionally. It’s not so much an issue in the Appalachians, but perhaps still some.
The well thing is definitely something I’m going to keep in mind. One question though would be what are the rules for such things with regards to neighbors - e.g. what if there’s a well that’s close to the edge of the property - could the neighbor actually legally tap into it underground (assuming that the source runs at an angle)?
That type of thing.
There’s a lot to be aware of with those types of properties - things you generally don’t have to think about if you buy a home from a developer in town.
Not sure about that but I know there are places where you get fractional cost of wells. For instance, four neighboring lots each get a quarter interest in the well.
He sounds like a great guy. What happened to you?
If My father was alive to read your posts, he would say “bug off creep.”
A nice compromise is a small town. You can live just outside of the city limits and still conveniently use the available facilities.
Pick your state. Then pick the area of that state. Then look at the small towns. Even small towns have COC websites these days. States also have informative websites for commerce, tourism and residency. Google is also good for researching a town.
http://www.survivalrealty.com/
If you’re looking for more off-the-grid places, some of these look interesting.
ARE you effing crazy? Look at the prices on these places. Better off going eco’s route.
First learn how to talk ‘ boon and moonshine’.
Holy smokes! For a second I thought you “talk ‘boontling…”
Boontling is a dying esoteric folk dialect they speak in Boonville, CA.
What? More unexpected figures. Imagine that…
U.S. Employers Cut More Jobs Than Forecast; Unemployment Rises
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) — Employers cut more jobs than forecast last month and the unemployment rate rose to a 26-year high, calling into question the sustainability of the economic recovery.
The unemployment rate rose to 9.8 percent, the highest since 1983, from 9.7 percent in August, the Labor Department said today in Washington. Payrolls fell by 263,000, following a revised 201,000 decline the prior month that was more/less than previously reported.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke yesterday said the expansion may not be strong enough to “substantially” bring down unemployment, indicating the central bank will be slow to drain the trillions of dollars it’s pumped into the economy. UAL Corp. is among companies still cutting jobs on concern spending will fade as government stimulus wanes.
“The employment situation continued to deteriorate,” Rich Yamarone, chief economist at Argus Research in New York, said before the report. “Given the crummy economic climate, businesses have no incentive to turn on the hiring spigots. We suspect the economy will make a turn for the worse.”
Revisions subtracted 13,000 from payroll figures previously reported for August and July.
Payrolls were forecast to drop 175,000 in September after a 216,000 decline initially reported for August, according to the median of 84 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News. Estimates ranged from decreases of 260,000 to 100,000. Job losses peaked at 741,000 in January, the most since 1949.
The jobless rate was projected to rise to 9.8 percent. Forecasts ranged from 9.6 percent to 9.9 percent.
that was more/less than previously reported.
Eh?
Now, is that “less more bad”, “more less bad”, “more less more bad” “less less more bad”?????
Doesn’t really matter since it is always “The BEST time to buy!”
True, silly me…and now for a lot of folks there’s no pesky job to get in the way of their house hunting!
Bad more or less
How about that jobs report!!!!!!!Now they are talking about a jobless recovery.Too much kool aid in that punch bowl.
Asian markets down 2-3% overnight, European markets down in that range now.
PPT members, report to your duty stations!
Heh! “…kool aid in that punch bowl.”
I like it. Sort of a ‘mixed drink’ metaphor.
I’ll take mine on the rocks.
Is that like painless surgery? or exertionless weight loss? We need a BIG blue pill, that’s it!
Our last recovery was also jobless recovery.
Thank god we no longer need consumers in our 75% consumer driven economy.
Doubleplus good comrades!
From MarketWatch:
“U.S. job losses accelerate to 263,000 in September”
Annualized rate of US job loss = 12*263,000 = 3,156,000.
How will the porcine beauticians work this number into bacon for Wall Street?
“Stocks rebounded today as businesses continue to shed workers and reduce costs, paving the way for future profit growth.”
How about, “US housing prices continued to rise against the backdrop of rising unemployment and declining factory orders.”
PPT to Mr Market: “We goin’ to pump you up!”
The use of physics vocabulary to describe social science phenonema really gets my goat. People in the media have somehow convinced themselves that once a number that describes something in the economy starts to move in a particular direction or moves in a particular direction a little more slowly (or quickly) than it did the previous year (or month), that it must continue to do that. It is like they actually think that the total number of jobs in the United States is the same as a weight dropped from the Leaning Tower of Pisa or a block that was given a push across a plane with a particular coefficient of friction between them.
The complex interaction of people making personal and business decisions is not as simple as an idealized problem out of a high school physics text book. Never has been. Never will be. Folks can slow down the layoffs for a while and not be leading into an inevitable recovery. When it comes to people, inertia can be overcome by fear or rational decision making. It doesn’ require some easily identifiable addition of external energy to the system.
Stop with the physics envy.
What you say should be obvious. Just look at any line graph for anything economic related, and it’s squiggly lines all over the place. Up and down, up and down. The only way momentum comes into business/economics is as a human factor. A person doing something stupid will tend to continue doing something stupid.
Polly …I like the concept of inertia ,and I think it is operative in any analysis of the future .
But anyway ,I was thinking about how we talk a lot about the unrealistic expectations on what American Main Street thinks their standard of living should be ,as well as entitlement society demands ,but what about the unrealistic expectations of Corporations ,Wall Street ,
and even small business in what they think their profit margins should be ? What would be a normal profit margin for a Company ? Are the 30% profit expectations of the Health Care Insurance Companies ,for example, a little off
the carts as far as Insurance Companies use to expect ?
Are the companies laying off to many people in expectation
of keeping the same profit margins ? It use to be that during recessions Companies would tend to keep the employees and
ride out the cycle .
Business was a direct beneficiary of the housing boom in that people were spending money hand over fist ,but what do they have to show for it ?
This whole financial system started revolving around Wall Street when this using real estate to create money took on a life of it’s own that ended up feeding the Companies in the New York Stock exchange . What did Companies do with the
windfall from the boom ? You would think that there would be a big build up of cash on hand , But anyway I keep on trying to figure out where all the money went .
If Big Business expects Main street to live on less ,in part because of refusal to increase wages or provide benefits ,than what is Big Business expectations as far as how much
they should be reducing their profit expectations ?
Not simple? But then how can they make any predictions when they get on TV?
Layoffs are interesting. Most managers hate to layoff/fire other people assuming the people are not completely incompetent. So most organizations quickly build up a layer of fat in the good times. In the bad times, that fat goes very quickly, leaving the good solid employees. Productivity soars since these folks were doing most of the work anyway.
As times get worse, managers are extremely resistant to cut productive employees. As those folks are cut, productivity begins to tumble as the rest of the good folks realize they can be cut and start looking for other jobs and going into CYA mode. Companies can then quickly crumble into bankruptcy.
We’ve seen employment collapse as the easy cuts were made and productivity soar. Now we should see the leveling off period, followed by slow but persistant cuts. Then comes the next collapse. My guess it won’t be for another year.
My tenant/neighbor is an engineer at a high-tech company that has been laying off a lot of people in the last few months. He was happy to get responsibility for an interesting new project - then found out that he would have that on top of his previous responsibilities. He reckoned that he is doing more than 2 people’s work - he ventured 7.
The “cynical” side of me would say that those seven people were doing the work of 1, perhaps 1 1/2 men if overtime was involved. In my mind, no human can do more work than one human can physically do.
I agree that there is little or no isomorphism between physics and economics. These poor matches are easy to spot when you try to run the metaphor the other way, in this case mapping economics onto physics.
However, this doesn’t change the fact that nothing is worse than car metaphors.
+1 polly.
It’s my observation as well that people tend to *way* oversimplify things when making predictions. Even knowing that I still catch myself doing it a lot.
Even worse, polly, is they then proceed to mistake the map for the terrain.
Good thing Obama spent $1T on pet liberal causes in the guise of a “stimulus”. Without it, things might have been really ugly by now.
He did it to help you eddie.
he wants you to thrive. are you a capitalist?
Bad boy.
Good thing Obama spent $1T on pet liberal causes
If I recall correctly didn’t Bush sign off on the Bailout of AIG ?? If so, your “neocon” bias is showing Eddie..
The job report this morning is even WORSE than it was reported: the Bogus Birth/Death Model ADDED 303,000 Phantom Jobs to the total. Without this addition, the total job loss was well over 550,000 AGAIN for September.
I noticed the report itself mentions the birth-death shortcomings, and how tax records are used once per year to correct for it, but it gets revised next May or something for the prior year. They were expecting the error in that component to be 3x any prior years’ error.
So how long until everyone is unemployed?
Also, the real unemployment index, U6, rose to 17% from 16.8% in Sept:
“The once-all-but-ignored alternative measure of unemployment and underemployed – U6 – rose from 16.8% to 17%. That figure includes jobless Americans who have become discouraged and those working part-time but desire full-time jobs, a total of 26.5 million.”
Has this been posted? Golden Sacks CEO Blankfein does the shuck and jive in an interview with Spiegel.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,650289,00.html
A special place in hell for that man
Blankfein: You’re right, we cannot live without a healthy system. In the days after the collapse of Lehman Brothers, when everyone was panicking, we received $5 billion from Warren Buffett and then raised $5 billion from public equity investors. But, we couldn’t make ourselves healthier than the system. Those who fail to recognize that the aid given by governments to the financial system benefited everyone are deluding themselves.
I also like the line that complex derivatives didn’t cause the problem. BS BS. He lays the blame on people who borrowed more then they could pay back, well guess what Mr. Blankfein no bank would have loaned them the money if not for the ability to sell the risk to someone else.
“Those who fail to recognize that the aid given by governments to the financial system benefited everyone are deluding themselves.”
Those who fail to recognize the crazy loans securitized by Megabank, Inc were part of a financially-engineered strategy to collect too-big-to-fail claims payments from governments are missing it.
“Those who fail to recognize that the aid given by governments to the financial system benefited everyone are deluding themselves.”
This guy fails to mention the AIG pay off of billions of dollars to his firm.
How can this jerk not talk about the absurd leveraging
that was taking place on the capital (up to 40x’s)?These thieves found a way to take capital and use bogus CDO’s as the weapon of mass destruction for short term gains ,along with all their side bets.
I am dead set against the current power players having any hand in
reform or new regulations . It would be like asking Madoff how the system should be designed .Why does Congress/Senate keep
interviewing these guys in their Dog and Pony show Courts ?
These thieves should of been hung at dawn for their active contribution to the biggest Ponzi-scheme regarding leverage
in modern history ,and I include Hank Paulson in that group .
And somehow these power brokers still have managed to keep the status quo as far as reform goes and even have gotten relaxed standards on “mark to market”. Guess they will just keep talking about reform and new regulations for years while they try to figure how how to disguise that new regulators
should be on their team .
While we may talk tough about a nuclear Iran, one of our financiers, China has been consistently investing billions into Iranian energy. They have been investing all over the world, to be sure, but over the last year they have brought their investment numbers up big time in Iran.
Radio talker Glenn Beck asked Rep. Ron Paul what would happen if the tension between Iran and Israel got nasty.
“If there’s a real panic and oil shoots up to a couple of hundred bucks, the Chinese will dump their dollars. Chinese are maneuvering for this. The more we threaten Iran, the stronger the Chinese influence gets because they’re using the dollars that they have earned from us and saved, they have a trillion, and they are starting to buy up assets in Iran and build plants and get involved in their energy. So the whole thing is backfiring on us. We’re getting ready to put tougher sanctions on the Iranians and that will make things that much worse. It won’t help the dissidents in Iran . It’s going to cost us a lot of money, and there will be a bombing and that will be a big, big event. I think it will crash the dollar is what I think it would do.”
War will “crash the dollar?” Would a ruined currency spark violence here in the U.S.?
“I hope we don’t have to go through a very violent period of time, but that’s what happens too often when the government runs out of money and runs out of wealth, the people argue over a shrinking pie and, of course, the people who have to produce are sick and tired of producing.”
Ron Paul is still considered a screwball by a large segment of the population, and practically everybody in the news business, but his observations about the death throes of the once mighty U.S. dollar are beginning to catch people’s attention.
“It’s going to cost us a lot of money, and there will be a bombing and that will be a big, big event.”
Providing a reception area for Jesus is too expensive, IMHO.
Iran runs out of oil in less than 20 years…
China is going to try and speed things up. Of course everyone is going to run out in the next… what? 500 years?
China is shipping them back gasoline though.
Would a ruined currency spark violence here in the U.S.?
Maybe….Probably….Exactly why we should bring all of our troops home from all points…We may need a “surge” right here at home…
“We may need a “surge” right here at home”…
Yes sir, bring’um all home!
What happens to the morale of US troops in Iraq & Afghanistan when they miss a couple of paydays?
Some of those guys coming back from multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan are pretty screwed up in the head.
“I hope we don’t have to go through a very violent period of time, but that’s what happens too often when the government runs out of money and runs out of wealth, the people argue over a shrinking pie and, of course, the people who have to produce are sick and tired of producing.”
How many times has this happened in the U.S.? I’m coming up with zero. The fact that Mr. Paul bases his predictions on something that has never happened in the past gives me some concern about his ability to conceptualize a logical argument.
The Native Americans said the same thing when their wise elders predicted bad times in the form of white invaders. It had never happened before, so how could it possibly happen in the future?
How many times have you died?
Absolutely. Things that have happened to other countries could never happen to us because this is America, the greatest country ever. People here aren’t anything like the savages living in other countries. It’s totally not even worth thinking about, so I’m not going to. Instead I will have a sandwich.
Union strikes and riots.
Many times. Google it.
Ron Paul is still considered a screwball by a large segment of the population.
These would be the same mouth-breathers who elected and re-elected the epic incompetent, G.W. Bush, voted for McCrazy and his even more appalling running mate, Sarah Palin, and installed Barak “I never met a bailout I didn’t like” Obama in office.
Being considered a screwball by these herd creatures should be considered a badge of honor.
Here is something you can count on… The VAT, and who pays that? Why everyone of course.
We’re broke … time for a new tax
Given the country’s fiscal hole, former Fed chair Paul Volcker and many tax experts say there may be a need for a value-added tax.
October 2, 2009: 7:32 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — President Obama has been steadfast in his pledge that he won’t raise taxes on those making less than $250,000. But that doesn’t mean only high-income households will be subject to higher taxes.
An increasing number of influential Democrats and fiscal-policy experts have signaled that lawmakers will have to get a handle on the deficit. And they recommend seriously considering the creation of a value-added tax (VAT) on top of the federal income tax.
That could mean more money out of everyone’s pockets when buying virtually anything — sweaters, school books, furniture, pottery classes, dinners out.
A VAT is tax on consumption similar to a national sales tax. But it’s not just paid at the cash register. It’s levied at every stage of production. So all businesses involved in making a product or performing a service would pay a VAT. And then the end-user — such as the retail customer — ponies up as well.
No one is suggesting raising taxes or creating new ones before the economy stabilizes.
But Paul Volcker, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve who heads President Obama’s tax reform panel, is advocating a little advance planning.
“…value-added tax…”
Wouldn’t first economic principles suggest that if you tax value, you will get less of it?
The people who argue that a VAT won’t reduce consumption are the ones who talk about substituting a VAT for an income tax. I have never seen anyone assert that a VAT added to the current tax system would not reduce demand and therefore the amount of “value” that will be made in the economic system.
VATs can provide advantages to exports in a way that the WTO ignores, though, of course, they might be willing to change their ruling policy for the United States.
Adding 20%-50% tax on any consumer item will reduce demand significantly and possibly permanently.
I am sure several industries will be exempted, like the auto industry, farmers, medical, pharma, oil, airline, clothing, etc.
Have incomes come down after the institution of the income tax?
Incomes gone down? I will say this: Some incomes have not appeared. Seriously.
Some years back, not in this country, I was working a decent job and making decent money. My wife was looking for work as an English teacher. Well, she got a job offer, and it wasn’t much, something on the order of $12k/year part time. Every little bit of income helps, right?
But no! In this case, because of the income tax, plus the surcharge on income tax, the unemployment tax, old age care tax, medical insurance tax, and pension tax, she was looking at a marginal rate of literally 70%. Really.
And so that income never happened: She turned down the job because it would have barely paid for her parking and petrol.
As for me, I am sometimes reluctant to admit it, but what was the point of working like a dog in my own job just to have the marginal pay increase mostly eaten by taxes? I didn’t do anything to reduce my income, to be sure, and I didn’t become a slacker, but when it came time to work weekends on projects just to maybe get a better bonus? No thanks!
No, but demand for income is impacted by the income tax. Talk to a couple with kids who have figured out that after taking into account taxes and child care, the second working partner would be making the equivalent of $0.50 an hour, so they decided to forgo the second income and you will see it in action.
Is a VAT tax compatible with a (~70%) hyper-consumer economy?
Discuss.
So who would you rather do 70% of the spending? The government? How about corporations? No wait they’re evil and any spending they do has a nefarious underlying reason.
I guess we just shut the whole thing down and go back to the good old days of the 1200s.
I guess we just shut the whole thing down and go back to the good old days of the 1200s.
Might not be so bad…
The Dark Ages Reconsidered
In “Barbarians to Angels,” an economic vindication of the 5th through the 9th centuries, commonly known as the Dark Ages, Peter S. Wells shows that it was at this time that the moldboard plow appeared in the archaeological record of Europe, and revolutionized agriculture. … With increased efficiency came an increased understanding of the nature of farming itself, with a focus on crop rotation and managed fertilization.
libertyunbound dot com/article.php?id=355
I believe it was Squanto that taught the settlers at Plymouth to plant fish heads in the ground to ensure a good corn crop.
Or at least thats what I learned in 2nd grade.
In “Barbarians to Angels,” an economic vindication of the 5th through the 9th centuries …
“Economic vindication”?
Do the 5th through 9th centuries need to be vindicated?
It was a period of time when Europe can’t claim to be the center of all the action …
“Is a VAT tax compatible with a (~70%) hyper-consumer economy?”
Depends. If prices go up and people try to buy the same amount of junk as before, we might have to go to an 80% hyper-dyper-consumer economy.
A VAT won’t really work in America. We are a corrupt, 3rd world country. Every industry will pay their Congressperson to exempt them from the tax, so it will fall apart within a couple of years.
This guy can bite my patootie. I don’t care how much some posters have lionized him. He and Greenscum need muzzles, not influence. I’m all for a National Sales Tax, IN PLACE of the income tax. He can stick his VAT where the sun don’t shine.
If you tax sales, won’t less sales result? (By contrast, handing people tax credit to buy cars and houses increases sales of cars and houses…)
I just am trying to be positive here…
won’t less sales result?
Maybe…Unless its is something that we need vs. something that we want…
Over a long period of time, the only way it WON’T reduce sales is if income tax is phased out.
The problem is that if they have some sort of 20-year phase-in of VAT to replace income tax, at some point in that 20-years, the government will need more money and will keep both taxes.
I’m all for a National Sales Tax, IN PLACE of the income tax.
+100000 with NO excemptions for ANYONE…PERIOD…
The above comment was more geared toward a flat national tax rate for income to the IRS and not a flat consuption sales tax, which in my opinion, isnt a bad idea either.
I have never understood how a flat 10% for everyone every year without any exemptions is hurting anyone. People say it would hurt the poor, but to me, that in itself is an incentive to make more money…and I would do whatever it takes to accomplish that, rather sitting in poverty….
Of course there could be exceptions, like the disabled and such..
any 10% flat tax proposals I’ve seen include an exemption for family of four earning less than 35K. So low income earners would effectively be exempt.
You will have to take away that mortgage interest deduction away from their cold dead hands in California.
Consumption taxes (without exemption for anything) are more expensive for poor people because poor people, by definition, must spend all or nearly all that they earn to live. A flat 10% consumption tax results in someone who earns $10K or $15K a year having a 10% overall tax rate while a relatively wealthy person who can afford to live well while spending only half of what they earn has only a 5% overall tax rate on what they earn. You incentivise savings for the well off while making it harder for the poor to ever save anything at all.
The graduated income tax is based on the idea that the first $20K that an individual or family unit brings in is much more necessary for them to keep fed and housed than the second $20K and much much more necessary than the 8th or 9th $20K. Since revenue is needed, it is better to take a larger amount out of the “tranches” that are not needed to keep people from going to bed hungry than it is to risk imposing taxes that would force people into homelessness.
By the way, graduated tax rates have NO impact on the complexity of the tax system. Most people look up their tax from a table. The exact method of calculating that table has no impact on them. For those with a lot more money, graduated rates require then to do the following: a subtraction problem followed by a multiplication problem, followed by an addition. Not very hard. The complexity is caused by deductions, credits, and the definition of income. If you wanted to reduce the complexity of individual taxes, eliminate all deductions and credits, eliminate all tax free savings vehicles and tax investment income at the same rates as all other income. You still have complexity in calculating the actual amount of capital gains, but I’m guessing no one here advocates taxing 100% of the sale price of a share of stock no matter what the purchase price was.
I’m opposed to a sales tax. I’m for taxes on assets: land, expensive toys (yachts), stocks & bonds. The governments primary role is to defend people’s assets from those who would take them without recompense. Let those who have assets pay for the government.
Secondly, a tax on assets will force those who have them to use them in the most valuable way. It will reduce speculation and encourage careful, profitable asset development.
while a relatively wealthy person who can afford to live well while spending only half of what they earn has only a 5% overall tax rate on what they earn.
What? Please explain….
If we say 10%, we mean 10%….Where are you getting 5%?
A consumption tax only taxes what is spent. If you spend all your income on stuff like food and rent and gasoline and electricity and medicine then your tax rate calculated on earnings is the same as the rate on consumption. So, if the consumption tax is 10% and you make $30K a year and spend $30K a year, your equivalent tax rate on your earnings is the same 10%.
However, if you have a higher income, say $200K and spend only $100K of that, then you have paid taxes on 10% of $100K which is only 5% of the $200K you earned. 5% effective tax rate on your *income* from a 10% consumption tax. Only matters if you care about the effective tax rate on earnings. If you don’t care about that, it doesn’t matter.
Like I said before, it provides an incentive for the wealthy to cut back on spending because spending is more expensive than it used to be. And it makes it much harder for poor people to save at all, because spending, even on a bare bones budget, is more expensive than it used to be.
“any 10% flat tax proposals I’ve seen include an exemption for family of four earning less than 35K.”
so if we’re making $36,000 is the whole thing taxable, or does everyone get a 35k exemption?
Here’s a chart if you want to get into the nuts and bolts of it:
http://www.geocities.com/cmcofer/compare.html
comparison between H.R.25 and H.R.1040
And here’s a proposal for a kinder gentler flat tax:
(exemption in this one is up to $46k, but the flat tax rate is higher - 17%)
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/1017/042.html
Authors of this article believe they have a plan that will satisfy tax reformers from the left and right.
My effective income tax rate at the moment is around 10%, even though I’m in a higher bracket. I earn around $36k.
So if a flat or even fair tax ever becomes law - which I doubt, it would still be status quo for me. (If you don’t count various and sundry sales taxes that I pay. No property tax at this moment. Oh wait I forgot about the cell phone tax, utility tax, etc. Add all that up, I’m probably hovering around 12%. And add to that, whenever I drive the PA turnpike, the tolls I pay, and when I cross any of the DRPA bridges, it’s a 3 dollar fare bada bing. OK so maybe I pay more than 12%.)
Palm: This is not a multiple choice situation. You are not being asked for your choice of Chicken or Beef. Both taxes will be required to balance the books.
Lots of good reasons given for not ditching the income tax, but let me add one more. The Tourism industry will scream murder if sales tax is increased to 40% (it will have to be really damn high if it has to make up for zero income tax). You know what will happen? Americans will take their tourism dollars out of the country where they won’t be screwed so bad.
The more the government takes in taxes, the more of the products of your labor becomes the property of the government. There is no line between true communism and democracy with an ever growing rate of taxation.
The more the government taxes the products of labor, less products of labor there are to be taxed.
There is no line between true communism and democracy with an ever growing rate of taxation.
Good thing our form of govt is a constitutional republic with representation. Actually, I dont care about democracy or communism as those forms of govt do not apply to the United States as much as Liberals want them to be. If we go back to how this country was intended to run, it would be alot better..
And the constitution isnt a living document…
“And the constitution isnt a living document…”
So you’re saying the 27 amendments don’t count?
So you’re saying the 27 amendments don’t count?
Touche….
Maybe I should say, it shouldnt be changed anymore.
Maybe to ensure sharia law isnt implemented..but otherwise…..
, I dont care about democracy or communism as those forms of govt do not apply to the United States as much as Liberals want them to be.
What is it with this “liberal” and “democracy” thing?
It was an avowedly conservative president AND administration who insisted on bringing democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan.
Actually, it was a Liberal ideology manifested during the Enlightenment Era that informed the writing of the Constitution. The Monarchists, the ones who wanted to remain a Colony of England, would have been be defined as Conservative.
This is why I buy gold for cash.
“A VAT is tax on consumption similar to a national sales tax. But it’s not just paid at the cash register. It’s levied at every stage of production. So all businesses involved in making a product or performing a service would pay a VAT. And then the end-user — such as the retail customer — ponies up as well.”
That will only enourage more outsourcing of production to countries without a VAT… hardly what America needs right now.
It’s a tax on the middle class and the poor . Just like AMT is now crushing the middle and upper middle class. Just like the proposal to pay for health care spending by taxing insurance plans.
The elite get dividend and capital gains tax cuts and a repeal of the estate tax. They get huge gov bailouts.
You could always go for a tax on products that the upper crust tend to buy (like a luxury tax) and in that way it wouldn’t hit the poor and middle class as much .
But ,I bet that they will enact some form of a National sales tax ,if they are not going to do it by regular income taxes . Maybe they will
put the tax on needed items ,such a utilities .But anyway ,anyway you look at it ,they are going to raise taxes in some way shape or form .
When I buy something, part of the Sales tax goes to pay for the new Cowboys Stadium.
I wonder how many new things we can build for rich billionaires if we institute a national sales tax??
IMO, VAT is coming for sure…To many VAT trial balloons floated over long periods of time to anesthetize the sheeple to its eventuality…The question is, How much ??
I believe the Tea Parties were also a trial balloon. If they announce the plans for a VAT I would expect the reaction to be so combustible that even the corrupt creatures in D.C. will not think twice about going through with it. They will need to find a more hidden way to tax the public. VAT would equal war for a lot people.
I predict more bartering and less spending if it goes through.
Speaking as an American living in Europe, the VAT hurts! It’s bad enough that the exchange rate blows but the VAT is salt in the wound
My favorite example is the Quebec provincial sales tax (not sure if it is a VAT technically). There is a federal sales tax, which is itself taxed by the province - yes, the province taxes the money you spend on federal sales taxes.
I suppose the total is less than what most people pay to private health insurers here in the states, but the chutzpa of it just astonishes me.
does that mean we do not have to tip waiters and hairdressers?
Underground economies will flourish as taxes build
At times I wonder, it cannot surprise anyone that the “stimulus” was a temporary boast. It was a massive amount of wasted dollars, that did nothing to “fix” anything. It did postpone the inevitable, and “create” thousands of new make work gubmint jobs. The PTB are in way over their heads, and can only grasp one solution, which can not work. May as well try and repeal the law of gravity.
New Data Raise Fears of a Post-Stimulus Hangover
Washington Post Friday, October 2, 2009
The fragile economic recovery has relied heavily on government stimulus spending, but new data show that as the money runs out, a sustained rebound may be elusive.
The dramatic decline in sales reported Thursday by the Big Three automakers suggested the extent to which the stimulus act has propped up the economy. The government’s wildly popular “Cash for Clunkers” program drove consumer spending to its highest level in eight years in August. But after it ended, so did the growth in auto sales.
General Motors’ sales plunged 36 percent in September compared with August. Ford plummeted 37 percent. Chrysler dove 33 percent.
Cash for Clunkers “was a one-time boost of sales followed by a crater,” said Ben Herzon, an economist at Macroeconomic Advisers. The firm forecast that the program was likely to have no effect as a stimulant for national economic output.
Other economic data released Thursday showed that the deep wounds of the recession have yet to heal. Weekly jobless claims rose more than expected, a sign that businesses are still concerned about the future. The monthly unemployment rate, scheduled for release Friday, is expected to rise, albeit at a slower rate. Consumer loan delinquencies remain at record highs, and manufacturing growth has slowed.
“It is a warning not to take the near-term strength of the economic recovery for granted,” said Paul Dales, U.S. economist for Capital Economics.
The only thing which will pull us out of the doldrums is to radically review NAFTA and all of our trade policies, tax the living piss out of companies who outsource labor, close the border, and start raiding all of the companies which are feeding off of cheap, illegal labor, arresting and deporting the offenders, and levying HUGE fines on the employers themselves. That will put Americans back to work and, in due time, stimulate consumption.
Right on. Have policies that encourage production and discourage speculation and parasitism. The most radical and necessary change would be to only give voting priveleges to those who pay more into the system in taxes than they take out in benefits. AARP and ACORN would howl, but we’d end up with a much better political class.
I always thought we missed a great opportunity when 9/11 happened. It was the perfect chance to pull back, lock our borders down tight, and start working towards productivity and self sufficiency. We could have assembled the bulk of our military here at home along the coast lines and the borders between Mexico and Canada, leaving only what we needed over seas.
Then we could have started cutting off ties with the rest of the world. Maintaining only the minimum diplomatic relations. Cut way back on our visa program. Limit trade to the bare necessities.
Maybe if we would have practiced a little isolationism and self determination instead of lashing out we’d be in better shape? Give the rest of the world the silent treatment and let them wonder what we were up to.
Anyone see Conan last night? I normally don’t watch. Michael Moore was on the show. (Please, no tired comments about how Moore is the devil incarnate and responsible for all the evils on the planet). I got a kick out of how Moore was putting crime scene tape around the NYSE when the police started to approach, and he got a little nervous. But one of the cops shook his hand and told him to go right ahead, the NYPD pension fund had lost millions due to Wall Street.
I agree with a certain amount of what Michael Moore has to say, but I have to admit that I find a lot of the movies to be boring as all get out. The only interesting part of the 9/11 one was the tape of Bush sitting with the kids after he was told an airplane had crashed into the WTC. Seeing it in real time made an impact. The health care one had a few more interesting moments just because of the intereviews with people under other systems. Oh, and seeing the American woman lie to get a health care card in Canada was sort of interesting too. But this one? I already understand the issues behind the economic meltdown. And his “stunts” like the crime scene tape are just not a big deal. I think the films have a role to play in educating people who don’t read enough to understand what is going on in the world, but I can’t get excited about it. Just can’t.
Polly,
We’re going to see it tonite. We’ll let you know how it is.
I’ve seen a few clips of it, and it looks funny to me. I’m all for the education of the mainstream public about the corruption, etc. More angry, “cynical” people = better results for our country long term.
While I don’t agree with Moore’s solutions usually ,I enjoy him busting the corruption . Has anybody seen Moore’s new Movie yet ? I haven’t seen it ,
but apparently it’s getting a lot of attention .
I saw him on Leno last week. He had to “earn his clip”. So he sang “The Times They Are a-Changin’”. It wasn’t terrible. They showed a clip of him trying to make a citizen’s arrest of Goldman-Sachs or something.
And even better, they showed this clip of Michael singing when he was on the Larry King show the next night. Larry asks Michael if he (Michael) wrote that song. Sigh…
Why does Larry King even have a show? I’ve never understood it. The guy is TERRIBLE at conducting interviews. I’m not surprised he didn’t know it was a Bob Dylan song. He’s clueless. He interrupts people, asks dumb questions, has a less than pleasing voice, and does an incredibly poor job overall, IMO.
He interrupts people, asks dumb questions, has a less than pleasing voice, and does an incredibly poor job overall, IMO.
I always thought so too…
(Please, no tired comments about how Moore is the devil incarnate and responsible for all the evils on the planet).
He’s not the devil incarnate or responsible for all evil, he’s just a typical Hollywood phony. Produce an anti-capitalism movie, and then…people can’t get in unless they buy a ticket?
The only way he wouldn’t be a hypocrite is if 100% of the proceeds goes to charity. Other than that he’s just as venal as the NYSE bigshots he skewers.
Please don’t delude yourself into thinking that charities are not part of the capitalist system. They are. The fact that they are not allowed to distribute profits through shares or other ownership interests is not enough of a restriction to make them not part of the system. That doesn’t mean they aren’t doing wonderful things - many are, but they are part of the system.
OK so if Mikey does donate 100% to charities, then he’s still a phony, because charities are part of the capitalist system as well.
While Michael Moore makes some interesting movies, he seems to play it loose with the facts. He also plays the same games as those he criticizes.
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/dissent.html
According to that (il)logic, anyone earning $$$ not reported on a W2 should donate it to charity?
good grief….
but we’re not all producing movies against capitalism
last time I looked, I wasn’t anyway
Neither is M. Moore.
So he’s a BB suit wearing Republican MOTU now?
kewl.
(Looks like his private foundation did own stock in Haliburton, so I believe you)
from the link posted right above:
When Melnyk finally, and nervously, corners Moore, he defuses questions about whether or not his private foundation owned stock in Haliburton (it did) with a condescending bear hug, almost as if to shut her up. On another occasion, Melnyk and Caine are ousted from one of Moore’s public appearances by Moore’s sister, who knocks their camera to the ground in a fury. The pair discovers that while Moore demands accountability of his political nemeses, he makes himself inaccessible to the media and usually walks away from anyone who doesn’t flatter his worldview.
This from lefty filmmakers.
“Looks like his private foundation did own stock in Haliburton, so I believe you”
And he divested. And his movie was great in a packed theatre. You should go and educate yourself some.
According to the IRS, Harvard is a charity.
glen beck is phony bolgna fear mongering idiot…but michael moore…now he’s a class act documentary director that deserves an oscar.
unbelievable some people are.
Right you are Michael.
You have to check out “Michael Moore Hates America.” It’s an interesting documentary. All the guy wants is an interview with Michael Moore
Hilarious - I actually agree with MM on something.
Who moved the green shoots? It seems like just a couple of days back that the stock market was shooting towards the sky, thanks to all the M&A activity. Even though many predicted yet another October stock market crash, it is somehow shocking to see it playing out.
The upside: The DJIA never drops by over a couple-hundred points in one day, so there is plenty of time to take your money out of the stock market in case you have a severe case of cold feet.
Indications
Oct. 2, 2009, 8:38 a.m. EDT · Recommend · Post:
U.S. stock futures drop after payrolls disappointment
By Steve Goldstein, MarketWatch
LONDON (MarketWatch) — U.S. stock futures dropped hard Friday after government data showed 263,000 jobs were lost last month, which is worse than even bearish economists had anticipated.
Pointing to a second day of sharp falls, S&P 500 futures dropped 11.5 points to 1,015.90 and Nasdaq 100 futures declined 15.25 points to 1,655.20. Futures on the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 96 points.
The fall came as the U.S. labor market weakened in September as 263,000 payroll jobs were lost and the unemployment rate rose a tenth to a 26-year high of 9.8%, the Labor Department reported.
Details of the report were almost universally dismal, with the number of unemployed rising by 214,000 to 15.1 million. An alternative gauge of unemployment, which includes discouraged workers and those forced to work part-time, rose to 17%.
The dollar rose against what are perceived as riskier currencies like the euro and the British pound, oil futures tumbled $1.66 a barrel, and bonds surged.
The 10-year yield dropped to 3.11%. Yields move in the opposite direction to prices.
…
I feel betrayed by all these “worse than expected” numbers…
market pulse
Oct. 2, 2009, 10:00 a.m. EDT
U.S. Aug. factory orders down 0.8%
By Greg Robb
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - U.S. and foreign businesses slowed their demand in August for capital equipment to expand production, the Commerce Department reported Friday. Factory orders decreased 0.8% in August, slower than the 0.5% fall expected by economists surveyed by MarketWatch. Orders for durable goods decreased 2.6% in August, revised down from 2.4% estimated a week ago. This is the biggest drop since January. Orders for nondurable goods rose 0.8%. Core capital equipment orders fell 0.9% in August, revised up from 1.9% estimated a week ago, the government said.
…
How about a little tinfoil hat story to brighten your day? This one is too out there to grab me…
The building of the Titanic began in 1909 at a shipyard in Belfast, the capitol of Northern Ireland. Belfast was a Protestant haven and was hated by the Jesuits. World War One began just a few years later.
The Titanic was one of a fleet of ships owned by the White Star Line, an international shipping company.
Banking was not the only business in which Morgan had a strong financial interest. Using his control over the nation’s railroads as financial leverage, he had created an international shipping trust which included Germany’s two largest lines plus one of the two in England, the White Star Lines. — Ibid, p. 246.
There were a number of very rich and powerful men who made it abundantly clear that they were not in favor of the Federal Reserve System. J.P. Morgan was ordered by the Jesuits to build the Titanic. This ‘unsinkable’ ship would serve as the death ship for those who opposed the Jesuits’ plan for a Federal Reserve system.
Sorry about that one. I figured out after posting that the Pacific Institute is a religious organization (not necessarily the most reliable source of historical facts…).
Don’t worry, the Jesuits have the Holy Grail, so its all good.
Hey…Don’t be busting the Jesuits…Go WCC !!
“Bring out your debt…”
“capitol” should be “capital”
Attention Pacific Institute: Misspellings are typically not helpful in establishing credibility — particularly when they appear in batsh*t crazy conspiracy theories.
Sounds like another Dan Brown book in the making.
So what was promised to the ship’s captain in his afterlife in exchange for running the vessel into the ice?
I’ve heard from some very reliable sources (conservative bloggers on the net) that Obama has recently converted from Islam to Catholicism! It explains so much if you really think about it.
Really? Pray, tell us.
Anyway, so what if he does?
It’s a joke dude.
okokok
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1217462/Shock-11million-ruby-Gem-Of-Tanzania-crystal-worth-just-100-police-consider-fraud-probe.html
“The rock had been exchanged for 11million shares in the otherwise humdrum Shropshire company Wrekin Construction.”
Wrekin Construction? Really?
Green shoots = Punji stakes
Nice.
“The U.S. faces the possibility of deflation for the first time since the Eisenhower administration, a threat that may prompt the Federal Reserve to keep interest rates near zero through next year”.
“Employers cut more jobs than forecast last month and the unemployment rate rose to a 26-year high, calling into question the sustainability of the economic recovery. Unemployment Rises to 9.8%”
The above pair of reports indicate that there may yet be some tough slogging ahead as the U.S. tries to make a comeback from the financial crisis and economic slowdown. And the Federal Reserve must try harder to get the inflation engine going in high gear if we are to avoid a deflationary depression. Even WalMart complains about the slowdown. The “headwinds” from deflation were in part responsible for a 1.4 percent drop in second-quarter revenue to $100.9 billion, chief financial officer Thomas Schoewe told analysts a few weeks ago.
I thought we were in a new bull market from all the govt stimulous?Are you guys sick of hearing about kate plus 8 yet.enough of this bullshit already please.Jon, it is time for a real job my friend.Why does the media keep talking about these morons?
“Why does the media keep talking about these morons?”
The same reason I dangle my keys in front of my toddlers.
Price deflation and monetary inflation (interest rates kept artificially low) are the best friends of gold bugs. Because when monetary inflation becomes price inflation, gold spot prices will break through $2,000 per ounce. Arguably, we are seeing signs of stagflation right now.
1970s: High unemployment, slow growth, price inflation in some things, gold prices skyrocketing, huge government spending in the previous decade on war.
2009: High unemployment, slow or no growth, price inflation in some things, gold stagnant, huge government spending the current decade on war. Huge government spending on pork barrel Democrap programs now, several times more than what Shrub had Congress spend on war.
The difference is energy prices are stagnant now.
This leads me to think gold’s big decade will be the next ten years.
Through the end of 2008, the cost of the Iraq war was $694 billion.
This is only a little bit less than the stimulus package.
The casualty rate from the stimulus package has been less than that of the Iraq war.
Recovering economy? How can one even form these 2 words in the same sentence?
The economy currently is in the garage with no engine, no wheels and a cracked frame.
Too bad there isn’t a cash 4 clunky economies program.
my little brother lost his job yesterday…gotta love those green shoots.
I’m sure that he will feel better once the Stock Market resumes its sucker rally
Sorry to hear that, it’s affecting many good people.
When I was a kid, times were often hard, but people banded together and helped one another. Do we still have that sense of humanity? If so, can it stand the supreme tests that are coming?
my bro’s girlfriend lost her job last week. graphic design for a mag devoted to boating.
Sorry to hear that, Michael.
We just laid off 200 people yesterday. Government workers so its okay.
Yes!!!!!!!!! Eliminated in the first round! Even before Tokyo!
LOL! Fantastic! Chicago, receives the least votes…
COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - Chicago were eliminated after the first round of voting for the 2016 Olympics host city.
Madrid, Rio de Janeiro and Tokyo continue in the race, with up to two more rounds of voting to go.
The result will be announced in a presentation due to be announced at 1630 GMT (12:30 p.m. EDT).
Maybe a bit snarky, but maybe Opie’s life story is wearing thin on the world? After all, every nation has it’s own heroes and plenty of them overcame a lot more adversity than he did.
“maybe Opie’s life story is wearing thin on the world”?
Yep, that ship has sailed, he’s in the big-boy chair now, big difference. Lip service, is just that!
Madrid’s surprising success in reaching the final round came after former IOC president Juan Antonio Samaranch made an unusual appeal for the Spanish capital, reminding the IOC members as he asked for their vote that, at age 89, “I am very near the end of my time.”
His son, Juan Antonio Samaranch Salisachs, is currently a member of the International Olympic Committee.
Madrid’s surprising success in reaching the final round came after former IOC president Juan Antonio Samaranch made an unusual appeal for the Spanish capital, reminding the IOC members as he asked for their vote that, at age 89, “I am very near the end of my time.”
Reminds of Saturday Night Live skit with McCAin. He said he was changing his campaign theme from Mavrick to sad Grandpa. Come on elect me he’s got a lot of years to become president.
Ah, see, I thought you meant Oprah at first.
Her megawatt smile apparently did not move the judges in the same way it does suburban housewives.
Alright!
That’s great news for our city. Maybe I’ll bust out the small-batch bourbon before lunch in honor of the IOC’s decisive thumbs-down..
Go Rio!
Your quest for that affordable bungalow just got a little shorter!
“Go Rio”!
That’s who I’d like to see get it.
And that’s who did. Are we witnessing a high profile episode in the rise of BRIC?
I was born in Illinois but I am glad Rio got it. In the past 10 years millions of Brazilians have joined the middle class. Brazil’s middle class is growing. Wow, what a concept…
Millions more Brazilians have emerged from poverty. The banks in Brazil were cited before the G20 as a world class model of responsibility and the Brazilians did not experience a funny money housing bubble.
In 2008, total outstanding mortgages in Brazil were equal to 3% of Brazil’s 2008 GDP. Source: Banco do Brasil
In 2008 total outstanding mortgages in the USA were equal to 80% of USA’s 2008 GDP. Source: The Hoover Institute
It is a far from perfect country but I’ll bet Brazil has progressed more on social and economic issues the past decade than all 4 countries that were in the running.
I hope people realise we are becoming a third world country and third world countires are becoming us.
I’m probably the only guy on this blog sad about this. Yeah, Chicago’s got way more pressing issues to deal with than this, but this was a once in a lifetime deal. Yeah, maybe we would have screwed it up, and taxes might have gone up, and, well, it doesn’t matter anymore.
When we had the World Cup in town a few years ago there was a pretty cool vibe here. I was looking forward to something similar and much bigger with the Olympics.
Anyway, this was one of those times where my heart won out over my head, in the long run we’re probably better off without it. I’m bummed.
don’t be too sad Steve W.
Those brazilian sistahs can throw down a mean samba.
Just spend a little time envisioning their opening ceremony!
World Cup! I’d take that again.
Entirely different scope, financial outlay, kind of fan.
Go Rio!
I can’t imagine why any US city would want to host the Olympics.
Additionally, this is how I feel about the IOC.
(Link NSFW - Language)
Lavi, I like the suggestion in the comments that Canada should “rent” the trademarks to those words - but only for the duration of the actual games.
, I like the suggestion in the comments that Canada should “rent” the trademarks to those words
I’m sure that was a comment by “D”, before he got an actual Google account.
He’s so pragmatic - he rarely shares my sense of righteous outrage - but that is a good suggestion.
However, at the time, I was really tweaked.
did you see John Kass’s recent piece?
No, what did he say?
All I know is a lot of people here are happy - don’t believe the media. Our streets are getting more dangerous and our cops are stretched thin. All the games would have done was give the local REIC a cover for more churn, displace people, and try to run up the cost of housing again.
Here’s the link:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-30-sep30,0,456539.column
If you think Chicago’s Olympic push is about sports, you’re mistaken. Sports has nothing to do with this. It’s like in the old movie, with Michael Corleone telling truths to his future wife, saying, “Now who’s being naive, Kay?”
Whether you want the games or not, please try muffling out those giddy broadcast news types and their frenetic cheerleading and understand what you’re really watching.
If Chicago gets the games, the contracts and the grease and immense leverage to reshape a city will be used as originally intended. To rebuild the boss, to give a mayor facing deficits and taxpayer revolts and headaches a much-needed shoring up of his political infrastructure.
I posted the link, but it probably will take a while to show up. From Sep 30 trib.
Rio probably will get it, it’s a much sexier city.
Thanks, that about sums it up. In checking some local blogs and comments to local news sites, even I am a bit shocked at the vitirol being show to da Mayor. The local fallout will be immense.
On the bright side, a lot of people seem really, really happy and relived.
All I know is a lot of people here are happy - don’t believe the media.
Very true. I’m not sure I’ve met any Chicagoan in favor of the Games. Nor have I met anyone who didn’t see Pull Out The Stops Graft on the horizon.
A friend was part of the creative team that put together the bid book for this whole thing (a quite impressive piece of propaganda, actually), and even he was ambivalent about the 2016 bid.
Well Rio isn’t exactly a paragon of virtue.
But I agree, Chicago is not a good place for the Olympics. I would not be surprised if Obama even wanted to do his pitch. (but he had to)
Oprah is more annoying by the day. Her qualifications are…what, again?
“Gasps and tears were heard in Chicago when the city went from favorite to Olympic also-ran, ousted in the first round of voting for the 2016 Summer Games despite high-profile lobbying by President Obama”.
You could hear gasps and tears over the gunfire?
Message from the world to the U.S., especially if Rio is chosen.
Based on the usual cycle, the Americas are due. It would not have been a surprise if Rio was chosen over Chicago. But if Rio is chosen, showing the cycle is in effect, it can mean the failure of Chicago to make it to the second round is a message.
I wonder if the same message will be given when the divide up the cheap oil our lifestyle is based on, replace the dollar as a currency, etc.
“Based on the usual cycle, the Americas are due.”
Have you forgotten that Vancouver’s Olympics are a few short months away?
Of course the IOC says they don’t consider proximity to recent games, but their choices over the past 20 years indicates it is somewhat an issue. I didn’t give Tokyo or Madrid much of a chance either for the same reason (Beijing 2008 and London in 2012). Rio was the politically correct choice.
Here is how to get even with China.
The IOC should declare that nobody can ever measure up to Beijing, and in light of this invite China to host the next 10 Olympics (summer and winter, for good measure). The only condition is that the venues should never repeat.
At 200 billion a pop, China will be toast by round 7.
My mom asked me why we would want the olympics pointing out that it was a money loosing proposition for governments.
I pointed out that this was very true but that it was money making proposition for developers and local business that make campaign contributions. Benefitting the few at the expense of the many seems to be the mantra of gov lately.
Chicago lost in the first round?!
Maybe The One hasn’t conquered all the agents after all. Or the fortuneteller was right and he really isn’t The One.
But in his own mind he will always be The One. After all, he has a gift!
“After all, he has a gift”!
As he said to the undertaker from Porch Light Nv. H.Reid. Looks like once the gift has been opened it’s just a highly polished turd, that can read aloud well.
He is…the Kwisatz Haderach!!!
Comment from the DIGG blog….Love it!
OBVIOUSLY, the IOC took into consideration which cities vollyball players look the sexiest. Good job IOC. I completely agree with you.
Tokyo = Flat Ass
Chicago = Fat ass
Madrid = Ehhh… Not so bad ass
Rio = AWESOME ASS.
Thats pretty much how the voting went. Im sure of it.
BIC,
Let’s take a trip down memory lane about the bid for the Olympics in Chicago:
It was barely noticed at the time, but in January 2008, then-President George W. Bush met with the Chicago 2016 Bid Committee and U.S. Olympic Committee members about bringing the 2016 summer games to the city. “They say that the Olympics will come to Chicago if we’re fortunate enough to be selected, but really it’s coming to America, and I can’t think of a better city to represent the United States than Chicago,” Bush said.
He added, “This country supports your bid, strongly.”
A year ago, a conservative Republican president told Chicago, “This country supports your bid, strongly.” That was then, before the right decided their hatred for the president’s hometown was more important than anything else.
Remember, in 2005, when New York was eliminated as a host city for the 2012 Olympics, and liberals everywhere giggled like children and mocked the Bush administration?
Oh wait, that didn’t happen.
The Olympics can be a money losing proposition but I’m wondering if Rio can be “different” in this aspect when compared to let’s say Chicago.
Rio is tourist destination much more than Chicago is but millions of tourists avoid Rio too because of its violence and “third world” taint. (I always describe Brazil as a first-world AND a third-world country sharing the same space)
After seeing Rio as an Olympic host I think many of these views will change and Rio’s tourism will increase substantially. Just the visuals alone will influence millions of people because it’s flat out beautiful.
Rio will also host the World Cup in 2014 which along with the Olympics are the two biggest sporting events in the world. I think both will be very good for Rio and I know they will be cleaning up the city a lot.
I guess you can file this post under “hate America first”. I cannot remember a time EVER that someone actually celebrated not getting the Olympics. These people would be CELEBRATING BIG TIME if we got attacked by terrorists too, if it meant they could score even 1 political point against Obama.
Like I said, the Enemy Within.
I doubt even Osama would have cheered so loudly!
BTW, Flush Limpdick and the rest of right-wing Nazi radio was happy as hell that we didn’t get the games.
The Enemy Within. The GOP.
Chicago out on the 1st ballot.
I blame Bush of course.
I was no Bush fan, but the media would have sliced him up over this. Of course no President should have done what Barry did. He comes across as a loser and he is, team Barry is already saying he didn’t want to go, but did so because of pressure from friends in Chicago!
Nice little trip for Michelle and Okra though, they fell flat on their face, and spent tons of tax money doing so. Not to mention their “carbon” foot print!
Wow, wmbz! You hit every right-wing talking point! Are you a true believer or just being funny?
No, I’m not a true believer, I just love having fun with both sides, they really think the world revolves around them. Very self important.
In this case however, Barry gets far more cover, he’s nothing special and is finding out it’s not about him. The previous admin.(like others) set an incredibly horrible financial president, and this crowd has blown a great chance to do something to correct that.
Either way, what’s the difference between the two parties? Slim & none?
Groovy. I share your sentiments 100%. I’ve been a lifelong Republican who voted party-line Democrat (except I voted for Nader instead of Obama) in the last 2 elections as a protest against what the Reps have become. I never thought Obama and the Dems could pull off a fix for the mess Bush left. Not smart or tough enough.
set an incredibly horrible financial president,
Did you mean “precedent”? If you didn’t, then that’s funny. If you did, well, your point still stands.
Jon, I have only voted for a party candidate for president twice in my life. First time Jimma Cater, only because he was from the south, as am I, and I was very young. Next R.Reagan because he could speak well and had a sense of humor. Poor reasons perhaps, but none the less.
Ever since those days I started paying attention, to what or who aligned with my point of view. So damn few, when I do vote it’s for the party that gets around 2% of the vote.
We have a two party system, others need not apply.
No you have to blame Mitt Romney.
He used his influence with the IOC and his wealth to put the kibosh on Chicago. Thereby embarrasing the 0bamas, thereby positioning himself for a successful 2012 presidential run.
GET IT?
On the 140th anniversary of the birth of the world’s foremost Globalist who was against Globalization, here is a quote as relevant today as it was in the 1930s:
“Government control gives rise to fraud, suppression of Truth, intensification of the black market and artificial scarcity. Above all, it unmans the people and deprives them of initiative, it undoes the teaching of self-help…”
— Mahatma Gandhi
Never knew Gandhi channeled Adam Smith. I always thought he was a Socialist like Nehru.
Nah, a true socialist would never weave their own clothes.
If you want to be a great leader,
you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
and the world will govern itself.
The more prohibitions you have,
the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have,
the less secure people will be.
The more subsidies you have,
the less self-reliant people will be.
Therefore the Master says:
I let go of the law,
and people become honest.
I let go of economics,
and people become prosperous.
I let go of religion,
and people become serene.
I let go of all desire for the common good,
and the good becomes common as grass.
Lao Tzu
Wow! How ’bout maybe school kids recite this every day in lieu of the Pledge of Allegiance.
Wow.
No Kidding.
Note to self: read more on Lao Tzu this weekend.
Wishfull thinking.
The more prohibitions you have,
the less virtuous people will be.
The more weapons you have,
the less secure people will be.
So how do we have less weapons without prohibitions????
Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
and the world will govern itself.
Yes it will govern itself in the same way that Somalia and Afghanastan govern themself. The man with the most guns makes the rules.
The man with the most guns makes the rules.
Such a simple concept that many dont seem to grasp…
The man with the most guns makes the rules.
Hence, the Second Amendment.
Lao Tzu (if he existed) is the founder of the philosophy/religion of Daoism. Like all religions, they only work if everyone follows them. Though I also believe that America would be a much better place if we taught Daoism in our public schools, instead of Spanish.
Pffffffffffffffffft
OK, for the first time in 18 months I’m hearing in the State Sponsored Media how Obama “FAILED”.
Wonderful. Now could we move on past partisan politics and address the reality?
A few years ago the interests of certain criminals on the left and certain criminals on the right, coalesced, and bad laws happened. One of many results was the systemic over-valuation of real estate, the Housing Bubble and fraudulent valuation of mortgages, mortgage derivatives, and mortgage securities.
The looting of our Treasury and and the destruction of our credit, economic and productive capacities occured as a consequence.
In the meantime, we as a nation now find ourselves in the dangerous situation of knowing out national creditworthiness has been spent; and the debt of our collective liabilities from entitlements is impossible to service.
Having surveyed the financial landscape, I pose this question to the HBB reader: Is it time to formally request a moratorium on debt repayment?
Should not the United States Congress advise the Federal Reserve Bank that due to certain irregularities in the banking, credit, currency, economic, financial, legal, and security interests of the United States, we have until further notice held and suspended for cause all manner of debt repayment to the Federal Reserve Bank, pending a thorough audit by competent authority?
held and suspended for cause all manner of debt repayment to the Federal Reserve Bank, pending a thorough audit by competent authority?
You wish.
I have heard that homedebtors in Iceland are talking about witholding payments for two weeks in protest.
Wow ZH just poined out BLS missed additional job loss of almost 825,000 ending period of March, 2009:
“In accordance with usual practice, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is announcing its preliminary estimates of the upcoming annual benchmark revision to the establishment survey employment series. The final benchmark revision will be issued on February 5, 2010, with the publication of the January 2010 Employment Situation news release.
Each year, the Current Employment Statistics (CES) survey employment estimates are benchmarked to comprehensive counts of employment for the month of March. These counts are derived from state unemployment insurance tax records that nearly all employers are required to file. For national CES employment series, the annual benchmark revisions over the last 10 years have averaged plus or minus two-tenths of one percent of total nonfarm employment. The preliminary estimate of the benchmark revision indicates a downward adjustment to March 2009 total nonfarm employment of 824,000 (0.6 percent).”
Planting the seeds for next spring’s “green shoots”?
maybe it’s more like green chutes. You know, like Chutes and Ladders.
Bottom line: there were many fewer births and many more deaths of firms that the model predicted, they found out when the tax records came in.
There was a massive downward revision last year too.
For 2007, there was a massive downward revision in Orange County, CA.
Last year, NYC had an upward revision — things weren’t as bad as the survey data suggested. We’ll see this year. I’ll be some of those 825,000 extra losses are ours.
Freddie Macs CFO scores
The government-controlled mortgage finance company is giving CFO Ross Kari compensation worth as much as $5.5 million. That includes an almost $2 million cash signing bonus and a generous salary that could top $2.3 million.
The Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees Freddie Mac, approved the pay package. A spokeswoman pointed to a statement that justified the agency’s approval of the pay, which was done in part because the amount was comparable to what others in the financial services industry make.
That way of thinking is exactly what helped feed the surge in executive pay over the last decade. Everyone wants to make at least as much, or more, than their peers.
Freddie Mac is not just another company. It’s alive today, and nearly 80 percent owned by the government, only because almost $51 billion in taxpayer funds were pumped into it over the last year. More bailout money also may be needed in the quarters ahead as losses from its troubled mortgages mount.
Outside pay experts are outraged. “We are in a period when this shouldn’t be acceptable,” said Paul Hodgson, a senior research associate at The Corporate Library, an independent corporate governance research firm. “Even if pay is competitive to the market, that doesn’t make it OK today.”
Lawmakers, regulators and corporate directors have spent the last year talking about how to “fix” executive pay following the outcry over what many Americans deem as excessive compensation.
Here’s and idea, why not cut the salary by 80% and see who shows up for an interview. My guess is you get a lot of very qualified people. This is pure BS.
Medicare Advantage
More than 10 million seniors — nearly 1 in 4 — are covered by Medicare Advantage, an alternative that pays for-profit insurance companies to run their own versions of the government program. But the government is spending 14 percent more per patient in Medicare Advantage, so Congress wants to cut some of that — up to $160 billion over 10 years.
14% more per patient, thats a lot of $$$ for management I’d say.
Social Security Applications Almost Double Because of Recession
Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) — Applications for Social Security benefits rose almost 50 percent more than expected this year because of the recession, according to the federal retirement program.
“We are seeing a significant increase in both retirement and disability applications as a result of the recession,” said Mark Lassiter, a Social Security spokesman.
The 150,000 extra retirees may add to the financial pressure on the entitlement program. In May, Social Security trustees said expenses would exceed revenue beginning in 2016, one year earlier than their previous forecast.
Former President George W. Bush sought unsuccessfully to overhaul the program by diverting some payroll taxes to private savings accounts. Lawrence Summers, an economic adviser to President Barack Obama, said in August the president would seek to ensure Americans can rely on the program as a base for building their “retirement security.”
I just received my water bill from the Olivenhein Water District, which included a newsletter duplicating their letter of opposition to the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California proposal to increase pensions of current employees by 25%. It’s really worth a read, its unusually forthright. They even challenge the “they have to get more money or they’ll leave” mantra.
This is a pretty affluent district (covering Encinitas, La Costa, 4-S Ranch, Fairbanks Ranch and portions of Carlsbad) so it’s shocking to read that customer shut-offs have increased 1000% each month since the beginning of 2009.
http://tinyurl.com/yhtwksy
Good read SaladSD, thanks!
This may have been discussed already.
Did anyone read or hear about a Kansas Supreme Court decision (Landmark National Bank v. Kesler) that may protect millions of people facing foreclosures?
Here’s one link:
http://tinyurl.com/yc82xtc
It was covered in various September bits. FBs are still FBs. It essentially means the second leinholders in Kansas are going to have to do a better job staking their claim with the various offices who record the deeds.
Hello All. THis was the first thing to pop up on yahoo when I logged on. They also mentioned 40% increase in prices over the next four years.
Also like to note on things we have discussed on here. One of the things is how the move up market has been severed. This will dramatically effect the “gentrified” areas and drag down prices for many many years. Again, mimic of the last bust where prices didn’t collapse in LA beach districts until several years after the last bust. Would note that it will be a long time for screwed renter, Neil and I to buy a place in those areas. If we even have a desire at that point. Anyhow, the move up model is dead and broken but it is still being pushed.
Really, feel like the blog has become a Fed/money/market/taxation/economic policy blog in the bits. Its clear we are dealing with the consequences of the bust phase. And as I (and many others predicted) we are in the shot the survivors stage.
So, the speculate, not save/invest news/policies are still being pushed.
yahoo/realestate
After slumping, home prices in these 10 cities are expected to rise over the next three to five years
More from U.S. News & World Report
» America’s Best Affordable Places to Retire
» America’s Best Places to Live 2009
» Top 10 Housing Markets for the Next 10 Years
As the historic housing crash continues to hammer real estate prices from coast to coast, many homeowners probably can’t remember the last time their property’s value actually increased. But even with home prices still falling at the national level, a number of hard-hit housing markets are gearing up for a rebound. (Get free instant home values and see comparable home valuations in the Home Values Center.)
To pinpoint the cities most likely to go from slump to bump, we turned to Moody’s Economy.com. Using S&P/Case-Shiller home price data, Moody’s identified a handful of cities that took it on the chin during the crash-with property values dropping by more than 25 percent from peak to projected trough–but are expected to see strong home price appreciation in the relatively near future.
Celia Chen, the senior director of housing economics at Moody’s Economy.com, says home prices in many of these slump-to-bump cities became overvalued during the first half of the decade but have since fallen, or are in the process of falling, to extremely affordable levels. “That will encourage buyers back into the market and lift prices up,” she says. Here is a look at 10 hard-hit housing markets that are ready for a rebound:
1. Tacoma, Wash.: With about 200,000 residents, Tacoma is the second-largest city in Washington’s lovely Puget Sound region. The city’s abundance of government jobs, bountiful outdoor activities, and proximity to Seattle–just 32 miles away–helped drive home prices higher during the first half of the decade. But as the national housing crash picked up steam, Tacoma saw its real estate market decline sharply. Home prices in Tacoma dropped 24….
2. San Diego: Sunny San Diego was on the leading edge of the housing market’s dramatic boom and bust. Residential real estate “prices started running up in San Diego faster than many other places in the nation,” Chen says. But the market has since crashed, with home prices plummeting nearly 42 percent from their peaks through the first quarter of 2009. Still, San Diego’s high-tech and hospitality industries will spark economic strength and rekindle home price appreciation in the coming years, Chen says. Moody’s Economy.com projects home prices in San Diego will rise about 13 percent by the first quarter of 2012, and 25 percent by the first quarter of 2014. “Technology is really what will drive the economy once the recession is over,” Chen says. “There are a lot of high value-added jobs that are in the metro area.” I think you have to look at SD from a cost prospective and from a infrastructural perspective as a business guy. Schools going down hill exc. Not a strong reason to buy. As for the people republic of over paid civil servants of San Fran, we all know that is a bunch of BS
3. San Francisco: Home prices in this city are expected to bounce back solidly as well. Real estate values in San Francisco had fallen 29 percent from their peaks through the first quarter of 2009. Chen says that San Francisco will pull out of the recession sooner than most other parts of the nation, and she expects future job and population growth to support rising home values. “The types of jobs [in San Francisco] generally tend to be higher paid, and personal income growth is going to accelerate [there] quicker,” Chen says. “Personal income growth really does drive home prices.” Moody’s Economy.com projects that home prices in San Francisco will rise about 12 percent by the first quarter of 2012 and 26 percent by the first quarter of 2014.
>”It is my contention that the US financial structures broke without any remote potential for repair and revival in the summer of 2007. The symptoms became obvious in the summer of 2008 to the slower observers with visible shock waves bathed in crisis. The reactions from shock waves have come since the autumn months of 2008. The system has broken, but the syndicate in control wishes to keep the music going, keep the machinery turning, keep the money flowing, so that they can continue the massive rackets, bury the frauds & counterfeit, cover their tracks, process the bad paper into USGovt coffers, continue to corner the printing press operations, continue to con the USCongress into granting more funds for Goldman Sachs to dictate dispensation secretly, and to continue the endless war whose rivers of blood are matched only by rivers of redirected private contractor fraudulent payments. Nobody seeks justice and prosecution for over $1 trillion in mortgage bond fraud. Nobody seeks to remove Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan from control posts at the USDept Treasury and USFed respectively. Nobody seeks even to locate the missing $50 billion from the Iraq Reconstruction Fund, or to announce the known location of the stolen $100 billion from the Madoff Ponzi Scheme (it aint $50B and they know its exact hiding place). Foreigners have been very busy since the autumn 2008, as they dismantle the levers, knock down the pillars, block the escape routes, yank the collateral from the paper marketplaces, and otherwise thwart the US-UK schemes”.
- Jim Willie
Foreigners have been very busy since the autumn 2008, as they dismantle the levers, knock down the pillars, block the escape routes, yank the collateral from the paper marketplaces, and otherwise thwart the US-UK schemes”.
Man, I’d like to be his tinfoil supplier.
Bellingham interior design company closes
BELLINGHAM WA - A local residential design company has become the latest casualty of the economic recession.
After more than 10 years in business, 23rd Street Interiors at 4071 Hannegan Road has closed. Owner Cecil Jevons is finishing up a few more orders this week but plans on retiring. The company had 13 employees and handled a variety of home interior work, including carpet, countertop and cabinet installations.
Jevons said the biggest factor behind the closure is the bankruptcies of other residential construction companies, which owe his company money he doesn’t expect to get.
“It’s just a sign of the times,” Jevons said. “We haven’t been getting paid for several projects because of the bankruptcies, and banks aren’t loaning money.”
Jevons said they took different measures to try to make it work, including cutting staff and business counseling.
“We just couldn’t survive what was happening in the residential construction industry,” Jevons said.
At least the stock market hung in there today, sort of…
Meltdown 101: Unemployment by the numbers
By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD (AP) – 29 minutes ago
If the recession really is ending, someone forgot to tell the nation’s employers.
A net total of 263,000 jobs vanished from the economy last month — much worse than economists’ expectation of 180,000 job losses.
The Labor Department figures set the stage for a scenario that labor analysts expect: that joblessness will continue to rise for several months or more after the economy starts to rebound.
The unemployment rate stands at 9.8 percent, a 26-year high. The rate would have been higher if 571,000 people hadn’t dropped out of the labor force, which many did in frustration over failing to find jobs.
That leaves 15.1 million Americans out of work, a huge pool of people. Many discouraged workers are likely to re-enter the labor market and compete for jobs that will eventually be created.
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263K instead of 180K. For gov to miss so badly on a Monthly key indicator says the wheels are falling off.
“That leaves 15.1 million Americans out of work, a huge pool of people. Many discouraged workers are likely to re-enter the labor market and compete for jobs that will eventually be created.”
I’m sure the number is far greater. I know many people who don’t collect unemployment, and are not included in the numbers.
Cool, the UK comes up with another can kicking scheme to get votes…
Elderly won’t have to sell their homes to fund care… if they make one-off payment of £8,000, say Tories
02nd October 2009
The elderly can be assured they will not lose their homes under Tory plans, in return for a one-off £8,000 payment
The elderly can be assured they will not lose their homes under Tory plans, in return for a one-off £8,000 payment (picture posed by models)
The Tories say they will prevent the elderly ever having to sell their homes to pay for long-term residential care.
Shadow Chancellor George Osborne revealed that pensioners will be invited to pay an £8,000 lump sum when they reach 65.
In return, the state will pick up all their care-home costs for life and guarantee they can pass on their homes to their children.
The Home Protection Scheme, to be set up next year if the Tories win the general election, is designed to eliminate the misery of the 45,000 middle-class people who have to sell their homes every year to pay for residential care - a scandal exposed by the Daily Mail’s Dignity for the Elderly campaign.
It will strike a major blow for families, who find worry over how to pay expensive care home bills for frail relatives worsens an already fraught time.
The voluntary scheme, which will be at the heart of the Tory election manifesto, is far simpler and cheaper than the plan outlined recently by Labour under which a £20,000 lump sum is taken either on retirement or from the estate on death.
It is one of a raft of proposals which the Conservatives will roll out at their party conference in Manchester next week in the hope of convincing voters that they are a credible government in waiting.
In an exclusive interview with the Daily Mail, Mr Osborne revealed that he is preparing to detail deep spending cuts to tackle the spiralling national debt while avoiding tax hikes.
LOL! I love this stuff… It is fun to watch arrogance get a foot put in it’s azz…
cbs2chicago 10-2-09
“At a rally in Daley Plaza five months before the election, Obama drummed up enthusiasm for the bid. He said: “In 2016, I’ll be wrapping up my second term as president, so I can’t think of a better way than to be marching into Washington Park alongside Mayor Daley, alongside Rahm Emanuel, alongside Dick Durbin, alongside Valerie Jarrett as President of the United States, and announcing to the world, ‘Let the games begin!’”
P.S. Today the “Rev” J.Jackson said… ” I want to know why Chicago was not picked” It’s devastating.
Hey, Jesse why not ax the IOC yourself. Besides how come you aren’t down helping the flood victims?
I heard an ad against the Consumer Financial Products Safety Agency on DC News radio the other morning. The ad was sponsored by the US Chamber of Commerce. The Fed also opposes the creation of this agency.
I think that agency is probably one of the most important reforms that can come out of DC. I sure hope it makes it through. The chokehold on DC by the FIRE industries is massive but I hope there is enough turbulence to break their stranglehold so this agency can be created.
I’m watching The National Parks, by Ken Burns, on PBS. I’m impressed at how the country was able to break the influence of massively moneyed interests to establish the parks. I hope the country can do the same in the financial arena.
Not holding my breath though.
I find it laughable that the Fed wishes to be the primary regulator of the financial system.
1) They are an extremely secretive and opaque organization who are resisting any in-depth examination of their operations.
2) Not only did they miss the signs of the greatest debacle since the Great Depression, they actively contributed to it, as Greenspan believed that the markets would regulate themselves.
“I’m really sorry baby, I’ll never hit you again.” Sorry, but that’s not credible.
“Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies” - Fleetwood Mac, “Little Lies”
Giving the Fed the responsibility of being the overall financial regulator would be like giving a poorly-controlled arsonist the responsibility of running the fire department.
Kind of like asking the fox to guard the hen house, no?
Or letting a drug addict work as a pharmacist?
Or hiring a child molester to work as a camp counselor?
If they audit the fed does anyone else think the bulk of the money went to foreign banks etc in order to placate them for all our bad paper?
We definitely need a post to list all the questions the Congressional auditors should ask the Fed. Hopefully I will get to this over the next few weeks…
It’s very hard to fathom San Diego home prices rising off a base in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, against the backdrop of 850,000 people living in poverty. Where is the fundamental demand? Or is it all due to the Fed’s housing price fixing program?
S.D. Poverty Rate Reaches Highest Level In A Decade
By Hank Crook, Gloria Penner
Editors Roundtable | Friday, October 2, 2009
With unemployment and poverty on the rise, San Diego has become one of the hardest hit cities in the nation.
Above: With unemployment and poverty on the rise, San Diego has become one of the hardest hit cities in the nation.
GLORIA PENNER (Host): I’m Gloria Penner and I’m joined by the editors at the roundtable These Days in San Diego. Today we’ll talk about San Diego’s newest black mark as its poverty rate growth exceeds the state and the nation, and yesterday’s hate crime summit after a series of hate related attacks throughout the county, also could Escondido and Oceanside team up to win the Chargers or does the City of Industry have the edge? The editors with me today are Alisa Joyce Barba, western bureau chief for National Public Radio. Alisa, good to see you.
ALISA JOYCE BARBA (Western Bureau Chief, National Public Radio): Good morning, Gloria.
PENNER: Good morning. Miriam Raftery, editor of East County Magazine. I’m glad you could come back, Miriam.
MIRIAM RAFTERY (Editor, East County Magazine): Thank you, Gloria.
PENNER: And Kent Davy, editor of the North County Times. As always, Kent, welcome to our studios.
KENT DAVY (Editor, North County Times): Thank you for having me, Gloria.
PENNER: Of course. And to our listeners, our call-in number is 1-888-895-5727, that’s 895-KPBS. Well, we now know that the national unemployment rate is up to 9.8%, that’s one in ten workers unemployed. And this week the Center on Policy Initiatives here in San Diego released information that was pretty shocking to most of us. The think tank reported that last year the poverty rate in San Diego rose at a much faster pace than all of California and the rest of the United States. So, Alisa, is that as harsh a statement about San Diego as it sounds?
BARBA: Is it a harsh statement about San Diego? I think it’s definitely a harsh reality about what – how much money it costs to live in San Diego and how difficult it is, I think, to bring all those funds together to have a house, to do the kinds of things you need to do to live here. I think, you know, there’s a national poverty level which puts us, I think, at 12.6%, the people living below the national poverty line but I think that this group, this think tank, what it did is it uses a different measure for poverty than the federal level because the federal level doesn’t take into account the standard of living. It costs more to live here, we all know that. So they look at it differently and they see actually a level of something like 26% of people in San Diego County are living below their level of poverty, which is to say like 850,000 people, nearly a quarter of our population, over a quarter of our population here, which is really, really stunning, I think.
PENNER: It is stunning. And the question is, is that real poverty or is that something that’s called, euphemistically, economic hardship?
BARBA: Economic – I don’t know if there’s a difference, really. I mean, there’s poverty, there’s economic hardship, I think we know that a lot of us, a lot of our neighbors are living in economic hardship for sure.
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Yeah for being a kolledge edukated MORON paying $500K for a “starter” 50 year old house…
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I think we know that a lot of us, a lot of our neighbors are living in economic hardship for sure.