October 3, 2009

Bits Bucket For October 3, 2009

Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum.




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249 Comments »

Comment by In Montana
2009-10-03 07:13:00

Good morning, you angry renters.

Comment by Stpn2me
2009-10-03 07:21:37

Good Morning everyone!

A sand storm has decended on Kandahar. The poo pond still smells. The afghans are finally back to work after Ramadan. A camel spider the size of a small dog just crawled out from behind my desk. Scared the hell out of me…

Did you guys know they will follow you if you run from them? But it’s not you they are chasing, they are chasing your shadow to stay cool from the heat. Very interesting…

Comment by combotechie
2009-10-03 07:58:28

Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/camel_spider for some interesting info about camel spiders, such as they can run at 10 miles-per-hour.

 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-10-03 08:35:54

Hi Step!
What? Explain man ’splain!!

A camel spider the size of a small dog just crawled out from behind my desk.

Oly and me would like one for a pet.

Shorty would think he was his buddy too!

Seriously, when I get back from the game, I am going to reasearch that sh*t.

Camel Spider the size of a dog…

Cool.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 12:03:07

Yes, I want to know too. Size of a small dog? Like, if you got enough of them and harnessed them all to your wheelbarrow you could zoom up and down the road, hollering, and sometimes screech to a halt to jump on a deer or the mail-lady for a quick sip?
I can visualize it perfectly!
Man, think of the majesty. I bet none of my friends have of one of those.

Spiders are very neat-o. Although I must confess that at this time of year I get a tad less enamored of them, because every September massive hordes of orangey-tinted spiders pop up and weave big round webs everywhere, festooning the forest like you wouldn’t believe.
It’s even worse this year, because I won’t ever kill spiders and only bring them tenderly outside and sometimes even pack them a sack-lunch before I fondly release them into the wilderness.
Evidently the news has got out, because I can’t walk ANYWHERE without yelping and skipping back and batting at my face.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 13:46:29

… for a quick sip

Not me—the camel spiders, obviously. I would never eat or even lick the mail-lady. She has a lot of moles, for one thing. Plus then I’d get my mail even less reliably.
But I wouldn’t mind watching the spectacle…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 14:39:55

Well yeah…

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 16:32:39

You know my mail-lady?!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 17:02:19

Not as well as you do!

I was talking about the spectacle. :roll: :lol:

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 19:19:59

Oh.
You should explain yourself, man. I was thinking about ‘know your mail-lady’, in the biblical sense.

*shudder *

 
 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-10-03 07:42:47

Speaking of being a renter…

I got my renewal late last week for a new year starting January 1st. Was very peeved that it included a $60 a month increase. So I started poking around Craig’s list. Seems that similar apartments are definitely going for less. The real luxury one bed rooms are just a little less than I am paying now, but those are in much nicer buildings in better locations with respect to the Metro and grocery shopping and with much better amenities.

As some of you may recall, I renewed last year at what I knew was an above market rate because I was facing knee surgery and really couldn’t do a lot of the lugging and carrying myself. Also, my current ground floor rental was a good situation to be in when I was facing a few weeks/months of relative immobility.

Well, guess what I found last night? An ad on Craig’s List by my exact building offering a one bedroon at $170 less than I am paying now and $230 less than they want for the renewal. Fabulous. I am going to offer them $100 a month less than that and see what happens. Remember, I pay scrupulously on time and the office manager told me I had the highest credit score she had ever seen when I sent in my materials in late 2004. With everyone moving out because of stupid $8000 tax credit purchases, I think I am looking at a rent reduction this year.

And if I don’t get it, I’m moving to a two bedroom. There are plenty to choose from.

About time this landlord gave me a raise.

Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2009-10-03 07:54:22

Due diligence pays off. How can you argue the ad for the very same unit in the same building? They’ll probably give you some shuck and jive about it being a first-time special to get someone in the unit. Call them on their BS.

Comment by polly
2009-10-03 08:16:23

Funny thing is, it isn’t presented as a special. That is almost always done as a free month (or two or three) around here. It is just a plain offer. I bet they offer the one month free once people come in the door. Hence me offering them $100 less.

My apartment is actually bigger than most of the one bedrooms here. The living room is a little wider. But, it is on the first floor so I have earth worms crawling in under the door after a heavy rain, a bit less security, extra noise, etc. And in reality, it is going to be VERY hard for them to rent this place out in January after repainting and replacing all the cheap carpet.

Look, I may not win this one. But my knee is better, I have at least two weeks of “use or lose” vacation at the end of the year to move in and I’m willing to call their bluff. Let the games begin.

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Comment by ATE-UP
2009-10-03 08:43:05

I was going to ask you polly how your knee was. I am glad it is better. You are a very good and intelligent lady. :)

 
Comment by talon
2009-10-03 08:55:01

EVERY apartment around here (Phoenix) has banners advertising specials, 3 months free etc. The rental market is in the tank, and it’s not just affecting apartments. I started my third year in a rental house last June, and the LL hasn’t even attempted to raise the rent. During the past year tons of “investors” here have gotten into bidding wars over cheap foreclosures, buying them, slapping on a coat of paint, and putting them on the rental market. So now, instead of lots of empty houses with for sale signs, we have lots of empty houses with for rent signs. It never occurred to any of these investor geniuses that the flip side of their little feeding frenzy was that they’d all be competing with each other for a fixed, if not actually declining, pool of tenants. The house two doors down from me has been for rent since July, and this is in Tempe, which is probably the hottest rental market in the valley due to the presence of ASU. I thought that possibly they were asking too much, so I checked it out on Craigslist, and the rent is quite reasonable (less than what I pay, and it has a pool). The tenants just aren’t there.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-03 08:58:54

Knee is much better. I was told that the first big improvement after the surgery would be around 3 weeks and I got it at barely 2 weeks, so I thought I was doing great. Then they said the second big improvement would be between 6 and 8 weeks and while I was back to an almost natural range of motion by then, it still hurt a bit to get there. Around 9 weeks, poof, the rest of the tightness nearly disappeared. I can still tell it isn’t quite the same knee as it was before the injury, but it is really all better. I am very pleased with my results.

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-10-03 19:15:30

Cost me about a 1000 bucks to move a one bedroom apartment about 20 minutes north, to another one bedroom apartment. I had several good reasons though, closer to a lot of things that are important, including work. The apartment company kind of knows they’ve got some advantages on a tenant who doesn’t have a compelling reason to move. The big advantage is the cost and hassle of moving itself.

Getting good movers is great (operative phrase - “good movers”). I just packed everything in boxes (the moving estimator’s estimate was spot on - he was one of the owners of the company I believe). Unpacking was much more of a PITA. But the move itself - the movers come in, take everything from location one, put it in location 2. I did have to move stuff myself, my important records and electronics. And alcohol and refrigerator contents.

A PITA overall, but the rent decrease and improved location were major benefits though. Guess you should wargame your options and see what the best strategy would be.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 19:29:35

This strikes me as a period when the rental market is very unstable, meaning the returns to searching can be very high. Case in point: I am hosting a visitor from abroad who had budgeted $100/day for renting a room somewhere in La Jolla during his three-week stay. A word of mouth search revealed (in one day’s time!) that there were many folks looking for boarders — seems there is suddenly a shortage of renters out there willing to pay what La Jolla landlords believed to be the market rent. To make a long story short, my visitor got his room for free, save for delivering an imported gift from his host. This was admittedly a “better-than-expected” offer, but there were several others at ridiculously low rental rates he had as alternatives…

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Comment by cougar91
2009-10-03 08:03:13

Good for you. I have a feeling that you will succeed in your effort in extracting some pain from your landlord. All you have to do is show them the listings and say you have 100+ friends on HBB who will be willing to come over and move your furniture so moving is no idle threat.

Comment by polly
2009-10-03 10:20:52

It isn’t the furniture so much as the books….well, and then the furniture that holds the books. Sigh. I could think of better things to do with two weeks off, but I am really willing to move this year. That is my real bargaining chip.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-03 10:29:38

Polly polly polly with all the friends you have don’t cha think a great home cooked meal and some fine wine would be a nice trade off for their help?

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-03 10:46:14

I tend to think other people have other things to do during the last two weeks of the year like celebrate the holidays, but I might be able to recruit a few people to come help.

Normally, I’d be planning to head to Vermont to hang with uncle and his boys for part of that time, but we are doing Thanksgiving in Vermont this year AND the kids are finallly old enough to come to visit me - they have been asking about seeing Washington - in the spring. Three adults and three kids in a one bedroom apartment with one bathroom will be a little tight, but they will be 13, 10 and 8 and can sleep directly on the floor in sleeping bags and think it is cool. Uncle and partner on airbed. Me in my bed. If the worst happens in the bathroom department, a male child could always pee in the tub. Urine is basically sterile, right? At least that is the way I see it.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-10-03 16:55:35

Gotcha capitalism is the game landlords like to play. They get you in and assume you won’t go to the trouble of moving. Polly, good for you. Call their bluff.

Why can’t the price be the price for like kind items?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 17:41:45

Three adults and three kids in a one bedroom apartment with one bathroom will be a little tight, but they will be 13, 10 and 8 and can sleep directly on the floor in sleeping bags and think it is cool. Uncle and partner on airbed. Me in my bed. If the worst happens in the bathroom department, a male child could always pee in the tub. Urine is basically sterile, right? At least that is the way I see it.

Now, why in H*ELL is this not a reality show? P*ee in the bathtub? Partners on airbeds?
I would totally watch this!
Polly could sit there like the Godfather, with her bionic knee! Dispensing wisdom and kicking bu*m as needed.
Where is a film-crew when you need one!?

 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 17:57:31

This already IS a reality show. It’s called illegal immigrant housing.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 19:22:31

This already IS a reality show. It’s called illegal immigrant housing.

Ga-bing bing ding ding….this may well be the money quote of today…

Except that no—Polly’s not there, being the Godfather with a bionic knee. That is what I would pay to see. I can see the other thing anywhere. Unfortunately.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-03 08:11:42

Darn that inflation anyway! :-)

 
Comment by stpn2me
2009-10-03 08:18:55

In the same building? I would take the ad to them and ask what was up..

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-03 09:22:41

Did you Print out the ad…..they could delete is real fast if anyone else catches on

Comment by polly
2009-10-03 10:11:01

Yup. I printed it. Not going to risk losing that piece of evidence…..

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 09:36:04

Oly,

Play hardball with the management. You have the same situation I saw over the summer on my Phoenix apartment. If they call your bluff, then move. Don’t be hesitant about putting $1,000 to $2,000 on a credit card for six months for the moving expense. Your rent in the new place will pay off.

My new lease started this month and I’m paying about $100 less per month.

My Los Angeles apartment lease expires at the end of November. I cannot decide whether I should go month-to-month or do six months. In another month I will be ready to jump to a contract engineering job and one that has overtime. It will take me one day to move out and one day for travel. The East Coast (Washington D.C. metro) looks very good for lots o’ work.

Comment by bink
2009-10-03 11:36:05

As a resident, the DC metro area does look good for work. And your landlord will let you know that every time they try to raise the rent. :(

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Comment by wolfgirl
2009-10-03 11:46:54

Lucky to be able to pack up in one day. I don’t think I could pack up our house in less than a week right now. I’m working on it though. We have far more stuff than we actually need. A lot of it I can’t convince hubby to get rid as long as we’re. I’m mainly working on stuff he won’t miss-household, my stuff,things we never use. It does make a difference.

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Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 14:08:02

I, too, will be moving (back) to the DC area in a couple months. Just waiting on some paperwork. Long story.

We need a DC meet up in about 6 months when this is all settled.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-10-03 17:04:04

Well, I like stories, long, short, sci-fi, mystery, drama, biography, comedy, etc..

My grandfather was a great story teller. Especially about him and my grandma hoping the trains to California during the Depression and the Dust Bowl. Grandma was a pretty slim gal. She was able to dress like a man. No one would bother her when Grandpa and her were riding in the boxcars.

So tell the story oxide.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 17:23:19

I like stories, too.
Speak, Memory! And by that I mean: Speak, Oxide!

 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 17:55:04

Well the story isn’t over yet, but here’s the basic gist: I lost my job here in Ohio a while ago — sort of a hostile layoff. They expected me to go from doing science to doing sales. I am a lousy liar, so of course I couldn’t do any sales. Meanwhile, the upper management — for all their “connections” and “training” and whining and dining on client visits — weren’t making enough sales either. So they had nothing for me to work on. Guess who got the axe.

After some searching and interviews, I have two pending job offers.

Job A is an almost done deal. I have two verbal confirmations; they are just waiting for money to arrive before they send an official offer in writing. Now, I think I have been selected for Job B, but the offer will not be official until some paperwork comes through, which will take a relatively long time.

As soon as I recieve something in writing, I can begin the 6-8 week process of moving. I interviewed for Job A first, and Job A will likely send an official offer first. Job B is a MUCH better job, for several reasons. Both jobs are in the DC area.

I have already picked out an apartment convenient to Job A, but the place is located centrally enough that I could commute to Job B too.

My intention is take Job A for the time being, and move into that apartment on a six-month lease. Then at least I will have done the move to DC, and I will be employed. If Job B falls through, I still have Job A and I keep the apartment. If I receive an official offer from Job B, then I will quit Job A, and I can begin Job B immediately, commuting from the same apartment. Then I will have a few months to find a nicer apartment, closer to Job B. [I have no intention to buy a house for quite a while, especially not close in to DC.]

I admit I will feel rather nasty if I have to quit Job A even if I’ve only been there a couple months or even weeks, but Job B is an offer I can’t really refuse.

It’s all very unsettled at this point because I can’t do much until I have something in writing.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 17:59:26

My dad rode the trains that way in the 30s when he was a teenager. He could have encountered your grandparents! He went all the way from Ohio to California. Checked out the Sierra Nevada on horseback. Sixteen years later moved his 24 year old wife and my oldest sister (three more siblings on the way a few more years later) back to the Sierra Nevada. He was so impressed with the climate of California that he must have been fixated on returning.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by MadBoy
2009-10-03 07:18:59

Savings Saturday: Conditions favor buying a home now
http://host.madison.com/wsj/special-section/saving_money/article_b1dcfb6a-af94-11de-bcc2-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

Duh…of course uhs are going to say you should buy now because it’s a great time to buy.

Just like it was a great idea to only require $1,000 down to move into a $300K condo.

Comment by cereal
2009-10-03 08:47:35

DTLA condos are flirting with sub 100k prices. The new price leader is 112k in a typical rehab bldg in a typical location.

Comment by cereal
2009-10-03 08:53:04

Might I add it was purchased for THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY-ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS back in Oct ‘05.

All 470 square feet of it

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 09:38:02

I’ve seen Marina Del Rey lofts recently for $399,000. However the HOAs are a frigging $1300 per month!.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-10-03 09:57:51

Geez my HOA dues here are $250 a year. And that includes all the free water you want for your yard.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-03 10:32:22

I sure hope that includes the property taxes and a full-service building with 24 hour doormen and a concierge and such. Fees like that are seriously NYC style.

 
Comment by cereal
2009-10-03 10:49:57

“I’ve seen Marina Del Rey lofts recently for $399,000. However the HOAs are a frigging $1300 per month!.”

Bill, I think the MDR and PV stuff has both bldg AND grounds hoa’s. The PV stuff runs over 500/month hoa on the low-end stuff.

 
 
 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-10-03 17:36:12

Buy now, interest rates are going up.Or, the subsidy is going away; or they aren’t making any more.

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-10-03 07:28:04

I’m wagering the Letterman scandal has a housing component. You know the Halderman guy HAS to be upside down on a house. At least he has the pride of ownership, lol.

Comment by Muggy
2009-10-03 07:32:53

I used the googles and he appears to be current on his mortgage. Darn.

 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-10-03 08:02:54

Letterman’s aggressor, J Haldeman was in debt and had some love interest issues. He was convinced that if he had enough money to buy a downtown loft, all would be fine. Hence the silly 2M amount.

Which just goes to prove, where we live has a perceived higher power to solve our unhappiness than virtually anything else. It has more power (percieved) than our health, our relationships, our jobs our mental and spiritual health.

My theory is people crave the opportunity to get away from all the bad stuff in their lives by taking refuge in their homes. Everybody has their own unique vision of what that home space looks like to reach peace.

Take a quote from famed spiritualist Eckhart Tolle. The one attribute he said he enjoys about all the money from his fame: “I can buy a home away from my neighbors and noise and that is very nice”.

Comment by mikey
2009-10-03 10:41:14

Oue’s and Ah’s…and the age old Blackmail about Naugthy Sex Games in America goes on and on.

Those darned Puritan’s with the silly hats created that Bubble !
:)

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 17:49:16

Those darned Puritan’s with the silly hats created that Bubble !

I have an adorable Puritan hat in my costume closet. Very Miles Standish, with a big silver buckle and stern brim. I get it out to carve the Thanksgiving turkey, because I believe it imparts that subtle but important imprimatur of Pilgriminess that is so important to a Thanksgiving Feast.

Naw….I just think it looks cute on me.
But anyway, I’ll fight you for disrespecting Pilgrims!
You Pilgrim dis-respecter! Fight! Fight!
:)

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Comment by mikey
2009-10-03 20:31:23

I always imagined you as a small turkey but you just might look cute in a Pilgrim hat regardless ;)

 
 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-03 08:06:20

He is not a FB according to news accounts, he is a FxH (xH as in x-Husband, with almost $7,000 per month in alimony payments).

Which situation is worse? Unaffordable mortgage/house or unaffordable marriage/ex-wive? At least you can walk away from the former and end your financial obligation right then and there….

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-10-03 08:27:45

From MSN.com about Letterman’s would-be extortionist: “”Mr. Halderman claims he is struggling financially, but it is difficult to see what, other than mismanagement and extravagant spending, is the reason for this,” Montet’s attorneys said in the court file. “His is a world of golf trips, vacations, increasing 401k assets, comprehensive benefits, security in employment, earnings as an award-winning producer for CBS, and home ownership.”

In the prison laundry he’ll be earning much less, but he’ll be making lots of new friends.

Comment by az_lender
2009-10-03 13:33:32

MSN just doesn’t get it that the “home ownership” could be the reason he is “struggling financially.”

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-10-03 07:28:11

Any delusional fool can speculate but it takes a well coordinated pillage to enslave or bankrupt a nation.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:31:31

It Takes a Pillage: Behind the Bailouts, Bonuses, and Backroom Deals from Washington to Wall Street (Hardcover)
By Nomi Prins

Comment by rms
2009-10-03 12:12:48

All the players listed here worship at the same franchise. The U.S. is slowly dieing under a political occupation bent on global empire, and any solution for a productive recovery doesn’t stand chance until the country is free of their grip.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 14:45:48

Yep… we’re screwed.

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Comment by SUGuy
2009-10-03 07:41:06

Why is Obama getting involved in Olympics for Chicago, the beer summit etc. Shouldn’t the president of US during these times be involved in more important stuff? I think Americans pay too much emphasis on sports and not enough on books.

Rio Throws Chicago for a Loop
Rising Brazil’s Win of 2016 Olympics Is Blow to Obama, Boon for Developing World

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125446379425258861.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop

Comment by polly
2009-10-03 08:09:24

Why is it a problem for Obama when hosting the Olympics is inevitably a money losing proposition for the hosting city and generally results in years if not decades of corruption scandals?

Look, he had to go because the administration is trying to present itself as “just one of the guys” in certain international circles. The idea is that if you don’t always go in with the attitude that the US is so totally special that everyone has to do exactly what we want, then, maybe, occasionally, everyone won’t reject what we want just to show us that we aren’t all that big a deal. All the other heads of state go to pitch their case to the IOC so he did too. It is especially important in a year when Rio was basically a done deal. It shows he can take a punch and not throw a hissy fit.

Washinton Post reporter said yesterday that it looks like the US had no chance at all right now becasue the USOC and the IOC are deadlocked on money issues. The IOC was never going to reward the US with a games while the USOC was refusing to give them all the money they wanted out of the US broadcast rights. It explains the rejection in the first round more than anything else I have read. Yawn.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-10-03 10:06:46

Well explained, Polly.

And, much as I like Chicago, it will be more fun to watch the Olympics from Rio. It will be fun for the athletes too.

Comment by DennisN
2009-10-03 10:56:21

Rio has opposite seasons than the northern hemisphere.

How will that work out for “summer Olympics”?

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Comment by polly
2009-10-03 11:15:15

Make the marathoners who like cooler weather very, very happy? Brazil covers a lot of latitude. I’m sure they will figure out a way to make the stuff that is supposed to be outside work.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-03 11:20:39

Isn’t Brazil in the Tropical Zone? I think the biggest consideration would be moisture, not temperature.

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-10-03 13:39:04

Latitude of Rio de Janeiro is 22 something. For comparison, Key West is 24 something. So a “summer” Olympics in Brazil’s “winter” should be perfectly OK.

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-03 13:52:08

And, much as I like Chicago, it will be more fun to watch the Olympics from Rio. It will be fun for the athletes too.

We’re happy it won’t be here — now we don’t have to grit our teeth through six or seven years of useless construction. Rio will have its hands full. Good riddance, Olympics!

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Comment by Neil
2009-10-03 18:41:12

The whole point of hosting an Olympics is to focus a city revitalization. I think Chicago could have used the focus and re-development.

On the other hand, congratulations to Rio. I think they’ll pull off a spectacular games. My only ‘concern’ is the airports. Then again, it was customs access (to the USA) that was one of the concerns for Chicago’s bid.

I would love to see a US city revitalized in the way many cities have been that have hosted the Olympics. Yes, the games loose money, but consider it a loss leader for focusing infrastructure projects. Right now, Chicago could have used that focus…

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
 
Comment by ronpaul
2009-10-03 14:44:24

The spin never stops. No doubt it’s a win for people of Chicago but a loss for Delay and Chicago Democratic machine. Accept it, It’s also a loss for Obama because had Chicago gotten it, you would be talking about what a great of win this was for Obama.

Don’t send a child to do a man’s job. I heard that Tony Blair lobbied for 3 days in getting the 2012 game. Obama thought just his presence alone for 4 hours should get him the game. That kind of arrogance lost and I am glad for it. Okra didn’t help either.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-03 15:22:32

Mayor Daley shoulda sent Ron Paul, huh?

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Comment by ronpaul
2009-10-03 16:53:02

Hey, I would have done a much better job.

1. I would have shown more respect by spending more time.
2. I would not made it about me personally but more about the sports, players and people of chicago.
3. I would have lobbied each voter like Blair did few years ago.
4. If all fails, I would have asked Oprah to hand out new car keys to each each voter.

 
Comment by ronpaul
2009-10-03 16:58:45

One more thing I would not have lied.

Michell Obama’s speech included this gem.

Some of my best memories are sitting on my dad’s lap, cheering on Olga and Nadia, Carl Lewis, and others for their brilliance and perfection.

Carl lewis’ first olympic was 1984. Michelle was 20 years old at that time. Sitting on Dad’s lap at 20 years old. Get real anyone can see thru the lies.

 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-10-03 16:49:01

Since the Olympic committee is made up of “foreigners,” maybe they chose Rio because Lula da Silva is more of a socialist than Obama.
:-)

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-10-03 08:23:20

I don’t understand why anyone made a big deal out of it. It took Salt Lake five tries before they won the winter games, and they had the natural advantage of great snow.

It’s a mixed blessing at best, a crippling debt sinkhole at worst. And all these “venues” get built for two weeks of use, and then mostly sit for decades. An REIC dream, right?

One of the main reasons it took SL five tries was that the IOC is merciless with ham-fisted efforts. It takes a world-class sucking up effort, but you have to do it the most finely-tuned, nuanced manner. Guess a few more people learned that lesson yesterday.

Comment by wolfgirl
2009-10-03 09:04:24

Chicago thought that Obama being president was enough to win the bid.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-03 13:55:08

No, “Chicago” didn’t think that.

This process started before he was president, and he remained on the sidelines for most of it. The energy thrown behind the bid was Mayor Daley’s doing.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-03 11:08:38

Go Squaw Valley, 2018!!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 12:07:09

It took Salt Lake five tries before they won the winter games, and they had the natural advantage of great snow.

Sure. Great snow. That…and the bribery.

One of the main reasons it took SL five tries was that the IOC is merciless with ham-fisted efforts. It takes a world-class sucking up effort, but you have to do it the most finely-tuned, nuanced manner.

Oh…and also USE BRIBERY.
Why do you neglect to mention that part of it? Miss the newsflash somehow? Jeeze, man!

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-03 13:56:33

If bribery were the primary consideration, well, my fair city shoulda been a shoe-in …

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-10-03 14:29:32

When you read about what the applicant cities go through - above board - to “welcome” all the various IOC guests that come through… it all smells like bribery to me.

I’m not excusing the Salt Lake Organizing Committee, I was strongly against the games coming here from the gitgo. The whole thing is a sorry, overwrought spectacle at this point IMO. Every host city is under immense pressure to “top” the lavish and garish production of the most previous efforts. The original idea of the games is wonderful, and they could be put on with 1/10 the typical expense, and would turn out better.

If any less “illegal bribery” goes on at this point, it’s only because some of it got exposed and now everyone watches their steps closer, and covers their tracks a lot better.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 15:49:25

When you read about what the applicant cities go through - above board - to “welcome” all the various IOC guests that come through… it all smells like bribery to me.

Hmmm. Good point, there.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 15:52:25

Every host city is under immense pressure to “top” the lavish and garish production of the most previous efforts.

You mean like 20 zillion Chinese with sparklers on their heads? When I saw that I was sore amazed.
And then when I beheld ‘Kiss’ floating across the ice on a float…
at that point I asked myself: ‘Is this the Rapture? Or is this just the part where I poke my eyeballs out with an olive-fork, in order to spare my tender brain?’

Gah! GahHHHHHHHH!

 
 
 
 
Comment by Michael Fink
2009-10-03 09:25:42

“Shouldn’t the president of US during these times be involved in more important stuff? I think Americans pay too much emphasis on sports and not enough on books.”

OMG can you ever say that again. I can’t stand the whole “sports worship” culture, it’s absolutely leading to stunted mental growth in a large percentage of Americans.

There’s just no limits to the level that some people will go in worship of these “heros”; it’s truly mind boggling. IMHO, people who do something for the greater good are heros, not folks you can hit a ball, or throw one through a hoop!

Comment by X-Gsfixr
2009-10-03 14:34:10

+ a Gazillion

It amazes me how anybody in government or in college administration can justify these enormous expenditures, to put up Ball-Mahals.

Of course, all this construction has been to put in better amenities for the high rollers. Regular J6P just gets the table scraps.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-10-03 09:27:38

This is the biggest non story I’ve every heard

The guy spent 18 hours lobbying for the Olympics which would have created a lot of jobs during a time of high unemployment. BFD, and who are these people who chear the loss for Chicago under the delusion that this is some sort of failure for the president.

I’ve got no problem if you live in Chicago and didn’t want the olympics but from the looks of it more people wanted them then not.

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-10-03 10:08:20

who are these people who cheer the loss for Chicago under the delusion that this is some sort of failure for the president

It’s been kind of bizarre seeing them come out of the woodwork, hasn’t it?

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 13:48:31

It’s been kind of bizarre seeing them come out of the woodwork, hasn’t it?

Like those little powder-post beetle grubs when you light a bonfire! Except the powder-post beetle grubs are prettier and appear to be more intelligent.

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Comment by Lane from s.c.
2009-10-03 12:10:34

I`m glad for serveral reasons. First wasting millions of dollars for the travel part and two the arrogance. I am also so glad the IOC did not let the pres. push them around. Good on them!

Lane

Comment by exeter
2009-10-03 16:25:03

You just hate america. Where the hell is your patriotism?

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Comment by Ol'Bubba
2009-10-03 10:05:27

I’m glad that Rio won the games. In my opinion, it was the right choice.

I also thought that it was downright STUPID for Chicago, or any U.S. city for that matter, to be bid on the games in this deficit environment. As a nation, we are deeply in debt.

In 2001 I was in Montreal and took in a baseball game between the Montreal Expos and the Florida Marlins at the Olympic Stadium. The stadium was in terrible condition - the retractable roof was stuck in the closed position and often leaked. The crowd for the afternoon game was only about 2,000 people.

Chicago has a reputation for political corruption. I am grateful that it did not win the bid to host the games.

Comment by measton
2009-10-03 11:42:11

I also thought that it was downright STUPID for Chicago, or any U.S. city for that matter, to be bid on the games in this deficit environment. As a nation, we are deeply in debt.

Yes it costs a country more to host the game then they take in when unemployment is low, when unemployment is high you have to subtract all the money that is going to support the unemployed anyway right now. You are spending US dollars in the US to bring in foreign dollars. In this environment I’d say it would have been good for the US. There is no requirement that you have to build rediculous stadiums you can use existing ones.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 19:33:55

“As a nation, we are deeply in debt.”

Unlike Brazil?

Comment by Ted
2009-10-04 06:17:58

As a matter of fact yes, unlike Brazil. We have way more debt than they do right now. Scary huh?

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Comment by Lane from s.c.
2009-10-04 10:04:59

Well, If I had to fix one I would rather fix Brazil. I would be alot easier.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:11:31

Jobs report hints at more hard times
Unemployment hits 9.8 percent in September

By Peter S. Goodman
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
2:00 a.m. October 3, 2009

After several months in which the U.S. economy flashed tentative signs of improvement, a sobering report on the national job market released yesterday amplified worries that a lengthy period of lean times lies ahead.

The economy shed 263,000 jobs in September, and the unemployment rate edged up to 9.8 percent from 9.7 percent in August, according to the Labor Department’s monthly snapshot of the employment picture.

The job losses have continued for 21 consecutive months, the longest such stretch in 70 years of records, analysts said.

Although the job market worsened, the pace of deterioration remained markedly slower than during the early months of the year, when about 700,000 jobs a month were disappearing. That improvement seems consistent with the widespread belief that the recession has given way to economic growth.

Yet the report also buttressed fears that economic expansion will be weak and hesitant, with scarce paychecks and economic anxiety remaining prominent features of U.S. life well into next year.

“This is a weak report,” said Stuart Hoffman, chief economist at the PNC Financial Services Group in Pittsburgh. “The rate of job loss has tapered off, but we still haven’t reached the point where businesses are willing to hire.”

U.S. EMPLOYMENT BY THE NUMBERS

9.8 percent: Unemployment rate

263,000: September job losses

64,000: Construction job losses

53,000: Government job losses

19,000: Health job gains

June 1983: Last time U.S. unemployment was in double digits

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:14:15

Retailers expect no miracle for Christmas

By Stephanie Rosenbloom
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
2:00 a.m. October 3, 2009

In the retail business, it is never too early to think about Christmas. So, a lot of people are thinking about it, and taking surveys to test the mood of the American consumer, and deciding that this Christmas will be as bad as last — which is to say, one of the worst on record.

Retailers are relieved to hear that prediction. Flat sales this holiday season would at least mean that things had stopped getting worse.

“It’s reflective of this ‘new normal’ we’re in,” said James Russo, vice president for global consumer insights at the Nielsen Co. “Flat is good.”

Overall, the retailing industry posted a sales decline of about 2 percent last Christmas season, the weakest performance since the late 1960s, when the Commerce Department began tracking holiday sales figures. Results for stores that sell clothing and luxury goods were far worse, typically declining by double digits. By contrast, several reports published in the last few days, including surveys by Nielsen and Deloitte, forecast no change in holiday sales from last year to this year.

Comment by stpn2me
2009-10-03 08:23:01

“It’s reflective of this ‘new normal’

Does anyone else cringe when they hear “new normal”? As if rising housing prices, inflated incomes and fake values were the normal…

I prefer the “new coming back to what it should have been”..

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 14:50:20

I cringe because that would mean a high level of unemployment and therefore crime, greed and selfishness and god only knows what kind of politics without any real change in the underlying problems.

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Comment by kidbuck
2009-10-04 05:42:47

…a high level of unemployment and therefore crime, greed and selfishness…

As if we didn’t get this during full employment?

 
 
 
Comment by arizonadude
2009-10-03 08:31:34

This seems like an interesting article on new rules for short sales.

http://www.reuters.com/article/gc03/idUSTRE5916X220091002

Comment by pismoclam
2009-10-03 17:42:53

Well zip zip whoopie didley doo ! What a crock. Typical Fed know nothing. And YOU want the Fed to run health care AND the Post Office ?

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Comment by cereal
2009-10-03 09:35:05

I plan to spend less

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-03 11:13:15

I heard Target already has their Christmas ornaments and stuff for sale. Nothing like trying to cash in on a holiday three months ahead of time.

Comment by wolfgirl
2009-10-03 11:54:00

I’ve seen Christmas decorations out as early as Labor Day. The holiday stuff is out so long that by the time the holiday rolls around, I’m sick of the holiday.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 14:02:57

The holiday stuff is out so long that by the time the holiday rolls around, I’m sick of the holiday.

Hahah!
…But surely you’re just tired of the pim*ping of the Holiday?
I love Christmas and I enjoy hauling out my many boxes of sparkling delicate ornaments and twinkling lights and just decorating the blazes out of everything I can reach, and making presents, and going out caroling and simmering hot wassail and all that, I LOVE it, and Jeebus knows I’ve got nothing against excess; heck, my middle name is ‘Excess’. (Also ‘Ann’.)

But it’s sometimes hard to keep Christmas pure and good inside ones head, what with all the smothering slather of consumerist propaganda and the incessant hollow pimp*ing of cheap and/or useless crap. That stuff is bad and maybe even wicked.
That’s why I’m asking Santa for a flame-thrower this year. I figger it will benefit us both. ;)

 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 14:25:03

I’ve seen stores just throw in the towel and have a small Christmas section year-round. They just make it a little bigger after Columbus Day. Heck why not.

And I’ve seen toy commercials already…and not during kiddie TV, but during mommie TV time (like the Today show). I guess they figure parents will go back to ONE toy per tot this year, and every conmpany wants to be the one that sells the lucky toy.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 14:52:14

Ann Excess? Sounds like INXS?

Cool! So you got that goin’ for ya as well!

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-03 15:00:31

I like Christmas food.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-10-03 15:15:28

I like Christmas.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 16:11:42

I like Christmas.

You do, huh?

Hahaha! I just knowed it. What a trenchant little admission, and yet IIIIII have long suspected that Big V is secretly a softy.
I bet she prepares little gift baskets for old ladies, with candy-canes and cocoa mixes in them, and leaves them on the porch and runs away giggling into the shrubs.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 16:20:20

Furthermore, I bet Big V gets an advent calendar on the very first day of the month of December and then can’t wait to open the little window and pry out the chocolate each and every single day and then eats it, even before breakfast.
She probably hits anyone who carelessly disobeys the order of days and opens a day out of turn.

And, of course, rightly so. Because that is not a trivial act, man. It’s a Balance of the Universe thingie. Plus, Santa keeps track.

 
Comment by wolfgirl
2009-10-03 16:37:24

I observe the Solstice. But we get together-whoever can make it-on Christmas day because right now everyone is off then. We have homemade pizza!

 
Comment by mikey
2009-10-03 19:05:37

Whoa there Santa!

Our little Excess Ann..with a flame-thrower ?

Think about that one.

:)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 19:27:35

Our little Excess Ann..with a flame-thrower ?

It’s ‘Ann Excess’. Didncha see ecofeco’s post? Anyway, I already have a flame-thrower. I call it ‘my hand’.
And don’t pretend you don’t have one, too. ;)

 
Comment by mikey
2009-10-03 19:34:28

Sorry, I was reading a book and drinking cheap wine. I’ll pay better attention

…tomorrow.

 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-10-03 19:45:22

reading a book and drinking cheap wine

my kind of evening…

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:27:02

Dipped into stuff I got from BevMo. Not sure if it was cheap or medium-priced, bought some of each. Whatever, the two glasses I had this evening were what I needed.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:33:54

The nicest part of Xmas (winter solstice) is the magical feeling. The non-religious aspect of the magic part you know. The snow scenes and all. Unless you are in Canada or Alaska or a high mountain place in the Rockies, you may not get a snow storm on the day you unwrap the presents. But then you can make Xmas fall on the next day it snows, can’t you?

The spirit of my mom lives on. December 25 was her favorite day. She loved being a wife an mother.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-10-04 02:51:25

At least the ammo for a flame thrower can be mixed up cheaply at home. Just be careful how you heat the gasoline.

I love the smell of napalm in the morning . . .

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 15:08:57

“I heard Target already has their Christmas ornaments and stuff for sale.”

Excuse me, I have to barf. Christmas is why I look forward to New Years Day.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 16:27:47

You cynical, cynical man.
You need a gift basket with candy-canes and cocoa-mixes left on your porch.
In YOUR particular case, a quart of Jack Daniels should also be included.

…Big V? Big V? Any more room on your list?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:28:57

I get that from my sisters - girly girls. Except they don’t give me Jack Daniels. That was my dad’s drink of choice. I go for $20-thereabouts bottles of wine or beer on tap (Dos Equis of course).

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-04 05:11:02

Spend spend spend you idiots ….Turn those machines back on!!!!

I need one last kick um azz Good holiday season to dj a lot of holiday parties and pay off my credit cards…if not well i’m a gonna be really skrewed.

Lets rev up the BS….please?

 
 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-10-03 08:32:14

I had an interesting conversaion with another patient in the dentist’s office this week. Final assessment was that in my life I had been poor (in the very technical sense of having low or no income as opposed to the broader sense of being food insecure, living in substandard housing, etc.) and broke (as in having low, zero or negative net worth not the broader sense of actually having no money at all and no way to get any), but I have never been poor and broke at the same time. When I’ve been broke I have had a decent income. When I have been poor, I have had substantial savings to draw on. Living with just one or the other is a very stressful thing. I honestly can barely imagine having to deal with both at the same time.

Given the number of people in the US who currenly live paycheck to paycheck and are worried about a job loss, I’m guessing that a lot of folks are contemplating the possibility of broke and poor at the same time, and it is scaring them witless. I would be too, if it were happening to me.

Not really the makings of a pull out all the stops holiday season.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-03 11:17:50

There are more people poor, broke, and homeless in this country than ever. Go to any major city, walk the streets in the evening, and you’ll easily find people living in their cars. Places like Santa Barbara, CA have set up parking lots where people can legally sleep. Well over 5 million people have nowhere to live, and that’s the official number. It’s likely much, much higher.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-10-03 17:04:02

Gotta keep those home prices artificially propped up though, it’s in the best interest of everyone (except for those 5M people who can’t afford basic standards of living).

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 14:58:13

I spent the 80s poor and broke.

Needless to say it cured me of any malingering naivete’. Especially the “think positive” crap. I also blew through angry, cynical, jaded, and apathetic in one decade instead of an entire lifetime.

I fell much better now.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 16:24:53

I spent the 80s poor and broke.

Me, too! I was in high-school for the first part and then in college for some of the rest. Poor and broke: both definitions— as delineated by Polly earlier up this bits buckets.
It was fairly sucky. That’s why I’m glad this is the 21st century nowadays, when I’m not either, anymore.

I also blew through angry, cynical, jaded, and apathetic in one decade instead of an entire lifetime.

Wow! So, what did you settle on instead? :)

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 17:06:34

I have no idea what to call it. Some combination of the Dali Lama and Attila the Hun.

Depends on the situation, ya know? And even then it’s often a surprise… :cool:

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 17:37:45

Depends on the situation, ya know?

Well, I sure do.

And even then it’s often a surprise…</i.

…Especially for everybody else.

*shakes head sadly *

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-04 15:17:13

:shock: Have we met?!

 
 
Comment by jane
2009-10-03 21:03:18

Eco, I knew there was a reason why I liked cha. You, sir, are a well rounded man.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-04 15:15:09

Well thanks. :wink:

 
 
 
 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-10-03 08:39:09

Largest percentage of loss is construction and government. And this is bad how?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:47:03

Envision a world without trash collection, police officers, fire fighters, librarians or school teachers.

Governments don’t function without employees. Suggesting a reduction in government employment is categorically good seems like Republitard moronica.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-03 12:53:26

Professor….

Government would be far more efficient and Guv. people would be nicer to the customers and provided far better service, if they had a 3 strikes and your fired, like most business do.

Without the threat of being fired, they will ALWAYS “need” more employees, and more tax money from you.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:33:57

I will not argue with you that there are not possible ways to improve the effectiveness of government operations.

The same could be said for the banking system, though: Why would you want to keep in place the CEOs who oversaw the worst financial disaster since the 1930s? I would like to see a full investigation of what the managers at Megabank, Inc knew before the disaster unfolded, and what steps they took to aid and abet what played out. More heads rolling and top managers headed to Club Fed dressed in orange jump suits would sure make me feel reassured that the banking system mess was getting cleaned up.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:38:37

Thank Heavens that Canada still has a free press!

Winnipeg Free Press
Will the tycoons do time?
No jail so far for Wall Street villains, but the story’s not over

By: Kevin G. Hall

27/09/2009 1:00 AM

What they haven’t seen are any Wall Street tycoons forced to swap their multimillion-dollar jobs and custom-made suits for dishwashing and prison stripes.

There are plenty of civil and class-action lawsuits from aggrieved investors angered by the losses in their mortgage bonds, hedge funds or pensions. Regulators have stepped up their vigilance after the fact. But to date, no captain of finance tied to the crisis has walked the plank.

There have been some high-profile arrests and federal convictions of financial giants — such as Ponzi-scheme king Bernard Madoff and Stanford Financial Group chairman Robert Allen Stanford. They weren’t among the causes of the financial meltdown, however, just poster boys for an era of lax enforcement, weak regulation and devout faith in free markets.

“A lot of people who are responsible (for the crisis) seem to have gotten awfully rich in the process,” said Barbara Roper, the director of investor protection for the Consumer Federation of America.

The absence of what many would call justice stands out all the more because past financial crises always had their villains. The Depression era had electricity and railroad magnate Samuel Insull, who partly inspired the movie Citizen Kane. The savings and loan crisis of the 1980s had banker Charles Keating. Energy giant Enron Corp.’s spectacular collapse offered the late CEO Kenneth Lay, a Texas crony of former President George W. Bush.

Yet there’s no such poster child for the Great Recession, as today’s crisis is now called.

One may yet emerge. The FBI has more than 580 large-scale corporate fraud investigations underway. At least 40 of them are scrutinizing players in subprime mortgage lending, which was the first domino to fall and triggered a global financial crisis.

“The investigations are very complex; it’s not something that’s going to turn overnight,” said Bill Carter, a spokesman at FBI headquarters. “They are labour-intensive. They involve a review of records.”

 
 
Comment by Michael Fink
2009-10-03 17:10:03

Oh, I donno about that. I could certainly deal with less police (or at least less police who are “revenue generating” (writing tickets all day)). Trash collectors; I could go to 1X per week and not have much/any impact on my standard of living. Firefighters? I only had a volunteer FF department where I grew up, it seemed to work for my needs. My grandmother would call them every month or so (falls typically) and they’d be there 5 minutes later to help her and/or take her to the hospital. Librarians are a dying breed; as are libraries. I’m not overly happy about this, but; like many things, time marches on.. It is what it is, there’s not much reason (well, none) for most towns to have a library anymore, close them down and move on..

My beef it’s with the services offered, it’s with the inefficiencies in providing those services. There is simply little/no reason for much of the government structure that exists today. We’ve given up so many freedoms in pursuit of “safety” that we’re barely even treated as adults anymore. Whenever the state is pressing charges, there’s a freedom being removed. If there is no victim, there is no crime (IMHO).

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Comment by krazy bill
2009-10-03 17:27:56

i pretty much agree except about having a beef about the inefficiencies of government. Seems to me the last thing freedom loving folks should want is an efficient government.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 19:41:21

“If there is no victim, there is no crime (IMHO).”

If there were no government (including law enforcement and a court system), there would be a hell of a lot more crime.

The current state of the banking system is a great example of what happens when there is not enough law and order governing the private sector. Let the banksters run wild without a rule of law, and the next thing you know the global economy is on the verge of collapse. More governance of the banking system could have gone a long way to avoiding the protracted economic crisis in which the global economy currently finds itself.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-04 15:42:31

Bill:

Maybe we should use the word “Effective” government. Instead of court cases dragging on for years, let alone death penalty cases…why should people have to wait a year or more to find out they can get disability. Its the time consuming slowness of government which is hurting our recovery right now.

And don’t forget the lack of critical thinking skills.

My stimulus plan is prime time pricing. If you wanted to open a business 9-5 M-F you get Zip

Tax breaks should be based on the number of 2nd 3rd shift weekend and holidays your employees are working. It would be great for the economy, great for mass transit, and great for the electricity grid since we use more then Twice as much electricity at 4PM then at 4 AM.

——————————————
Seems to me the last thing freedom loving folks should want is an efficient government.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 19:37:55

Oh, and don’t forget that government job elimination could apply to the military as well. With no soldiers, we would have no national defense, and no country. Is that what the Republitards want?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:48:42

Were the banks who created the financial crisis governmental or private entities? It seems like the banksters could have used a rule of law to reign in their outlaw activities, but that would have required more government workers to regulate them, no?

Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2009-10-03 08:55:14

hmmmm….

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Comment by polly
2009-10-03 08:54:10

Not bad, but unexpected, sure. I’m surprised that there are enough people in construction left that they can still have one of the highest number of layoffs. And governement layoffs mean that the state and local governments are really really hurting. And remember that a lot of the stimulous spending is going to keep state and local employees on board. So without the additional spending that number would be bigger. Much, much bigger. Suburbanites may bet angry when they realize they are underwater in their house. But watch it hit the fan when they are told that Olivia and Edmund are stuck in a 2nd grade classroom with 32 other little darlings. Duck.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-10-03 09:40:10

June 1983: Last time U.S. unemployment was in double digits ??

I remember it well…Probable the scariest time in my life when it came to my entire family being at risk of complete financial collapse…

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 21:09:13

I was still in college but living with my parents. I did not know how bad it was. I entertained my parents during those days of 1983 by doing impressions of John Wayne, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Stewart, Foster Brooks, BawBwah Walters, and so on. Even though I had long hair (still a holdout from my Led Zeppelin/Black Sabbath 1970s). They already paid off their house and were on fixed income. I could tell they were just stretching to make ends meet only because they no longer bought brand new cars.

Comment by Ted
2009-10-04 06:26:02

I was also in college but could see some of the carnage around me, though i understood it only through a college kids eyes. I used to use the analogy “you think this is the worst, you should have been here for 82-83!”. I don’t use that anymore, and it scares me.

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Comment by SUGuy
2009-10-03 10:36:11

This quote reminds me of what our Government should not be doing.

It is better to put a strong fence around the cliff
Than an ambulance down in the valley.

—-Joseph mailins

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-03 12:57:37

In my opinion, it would be better yet to do neither.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 21:13:52

19,000 health job gains…

I’m owning thousands of shares of a company that does health industry staffing. So far it’s up 300% from its low this year. It’s a keeper. I’m bailing out when I get $100k worth of that stock.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:18:01

* The Wall Street Journal
* OCTOBER 3, 2009

FDIC Seizes Three Banks, Taking Tally For Year to 98

By DAN FITZPATRICK and DAVID ENRICH

Banking regulators seized small banks in Michigan, Minnesota and Colorado, bringing to 98 the number of U.S. banks that have failed so far this year.

The family-owned Jennings State Bank of Spring Grove, Minn., had assets of $56.3 million and deposits of $52.4 million as of July 31, according to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. The agency entered into a purchase and assumption agreement with Central Bank, in Stillwater, Minn., which got the failed bank’s deposits, essentially all of its assets and two branches. Central and the FDIC also agreed to share losses on $37.7 million in assets.

Warren, Mich.-based Warren Bank had assets of $538 million and deposits of about $501 million as of July 31, according to the FDIC. A unit of Huntington Bancshares Inc., in Columbus, Ohio, got the failed bank’s deposits and six branches. Huntington also bought $83 million of Warren’s assets.

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-10-03 10:19:07

I wanted five, only got three. Delayed gratification until next Friday I guess.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 14:04:46

I was rooting for your desire to be achieved, so I am rather disappointed as well.
Maybe next week, huh?

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-10-03 14:58:30

We can only adopt the strategy of the average homebuyer, 2000-2007: hope.

Let’s hear it to the FDIC: give us two next week! And if you’re feeling generous, give us three!

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Comment by cougar91
2009-10-03 15:25:36

Hey you did get your wish: 3 banks and 2 credit unions failed last night:

Credit Union Liquidations

Credit union failures are starting to pick up. There were two credit union liquidations last week and two this week. The two credit unions that were liquidated this week include:

* Members’ Own Federal Credit Union of Victorville, CA (NCUA PR)

* West Texas Credit Union, El Paso, TX (NCUA PR)

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-10-03 16:34:01

Wooohooo!
How many credit unions have failed this year? Is it greater than the number of banks that have failed?

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Comment by krazy bill
2009-10-03 17:38:43

No surprise; here in metro Phoenix the biggest CU had TV ads to “unlock the equity in your home” …to “take that dream vacation”.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 19:29:00

Hey you did get your wish: 3 banks and 2 credit unions failed last night

Those count!
Whooo hooo! I knew you could satisfy.

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Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-10-04 13:32:29

Anyone else disappointed with the names and logos of the new banks taking over the old bank spots? The names I’ve seen are so stupid I can’t even remember them. One culprit is the new sign on the (IIRC) old “Guaranty” bank branch. As if it was hard to surpass that gem. I think the new logo was light blue on white. Not sure what it was called either because the contrast was so poor or because it was otherwise unmemorable.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:19:53

Here is some hard evidence of a FUBAR legislative process:

* The Wall Street Journal
* OCTOBER 3, 2009

Sleeping on Job Is Political Rite in Sacramento
All-Night Sessions Mean Legislators Pack Toothbrushes, Cologne

By STU WOO

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — After 11 years as an elected California official, Abel Maldonado says he has finally figured out how to survive legislative sessions in Sacramento. His secret: Visine and Lil’ Wayne.

California state Sen. Abel Maldonado (R., Santa Maria) tried to stay awake during a late-night budget debate at the state’s capital last month.

That is because many of the most important sessions at the statehouse turn into grueling all-nighters. “You don’t sleep,” says the Republican state senator from near Santa Barbara, Calif. “You lay back there in the chambers, you doze off, and you have important pieces of legislation that come up that spend billions of dollars. And you’re like, ‘OK, what do I do here?’”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:28:40

I keep seeing hopeful signs that the tide is turning in the War on Banksters. But I am not sure merely taxing members of the Megabank, Inc cartel to pay for too-big-to-fail insurance would be enough, if scope remained for cartel members to financially engineer future crises, in order to recapture their insurance premium payments. I am thinking some kind of international law to establish, monitor and enforce punitive measures against bad banks would also be needed to stem the incentives to play “heads we win, tails you lose” financial disaster capitalism.

* The Wall Street Journal
* OCTOBER 3, 2009

IMF Mulls a Global Bank Tax

By BOB DAVIS

ISTANBUL — The International Monetary Fund, acting at the behest of leaders of the Group of 20 nations, is examining how a tax on financial institutions could be applied globally.

Neither the size nor use of revenue from such a tax has been decided. Brazil’s finance minister, Guido Mantega, said when ministers met in Pittsburgh recently they discussed using proceeds to help finance developing countries during crises. Another possibility, discussed in a recent IMF report, would be to “pre-finance a bailout fund” to handle financial institutions deemed “too big to fail.”

IMF Deputy Managing Director John Lipsky compared a prospective tax to deposit insurance systems in which banks pay into a kitty that is tapped to pay off depositors when a bank fails. “Now we can see we need to look more broadly across the financial system, think more broadly than deposit insurance, and ask the question, ‘How should these potential mitigation costs be borne?’” he said. He said the IMF needs to consider whether financial companies should be singled out for a tax.

The IMF assignment from the G-20 has been widely overlooked. According to the G-20’s Pittsburgh communiqué, the IMF is supposed to report by the spring to see how the financial sector “could make a fair and substantial contribution toward paying for any burdens associated with government interventions to repair the banking system.”

Comment by polly
2009-10-03 11:18:55

They can mull anything they want, but I don’t see this proposal going anywhere. I would suggest some nice apple cider. Penzey’s sells mulling spices as a packet if you don’t want to buy them individually.

Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 14:32:03

Just bought some cider today.

I take 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon, 1 teaspoon sugar and a couple whole cloves and tie it into a packet made of dental floss and a coffee filter. Steep in a cup of hot cider for a few minutes and remove. And then add the secret ingredient: a (1/4 tsp) pinch of butter (or margerine).

It’s not really apple cider, it’s apple pie juice.

Comment by wolfgirl
2009-10-03 16:45:57

That sounds good.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-10-03 17:11:53

Ohhhh, smack, smack, smack. That sounds so good.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 16:53:58

I would suggest some nice apple cider.

Ditto.
Except I would suggest some nice real apple cider. The kind where you have to tiptoe daintily into your garage, lest a random spark cause first the fermenting vat and then your garage and then the county in which you reside to explode into a fiery mushroom cloud.

(that’s how you know it’s the good stuff. The mushroom cloud. Accept no less in your cider, people.)

Comment by mikey
2009-10-03 19:20:44

(that’s how you know it’s the good stuff. The mushroom cloud. Accept no less in your cider, people.)

lol That and the rest of your above post has to be one of your best Olygal.

Oops, I really shouldn’t encourage you
;)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 19:30:12

Oh, whatEVER, Mr. Mikey.
I bet your garage is one boot-spark from blowing up Milwaukee this very single minute.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-10-03 19:50:09

WhatEVER, I’m not A Milwaukee Ann
;)

 
 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-03 11:30:42

“I keep seeing hopeful signs that the tide is turning in the War on Banksters.”

A “hopeful sign” to me will be when I see the CEO, CFO, and others of Megabank, Inc. led off in handcuffs by the FBI with talks of claw-backs and extensive hard prison time for financial and economic terrorism.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-10-03 14:33:39

Yep. With the FED chairman and a couple of Treasury Secretaries (past and present) following close behind.

Comment by X-Gsfixr
2009-10-03 14:44:18

Take the jurors on a quick tour of about any Main Street, USA, and you could go for that “Crimes against Humanity” charge.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 19:46:39

Before that could happen, we would need a judicial system willing to expose the Fed and the Treasury to the rule of law. A Congressional audit of the Fed which seriously asked which of their crisis management policies were legal and which were not would be a good first step. I don’t see it happening just yet, but perhaps the tide will turn as this crisis unfolds… to early in the process to tell. Hopefully the United States Constitution will ultimately prevail over efforts by individual actors to abdicate it.

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Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-10-04 08:03:35

The only problem with busting the Feds/Treasury is that Congress/Senate
more or less approved their acts without recourse .

 
 
 
 
Comment by bink
2009-10-03 11:43:16

Ah, the life of a politician. There’s no problem more taxes won’t solve.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-03 12:59:13

Of course the banks themselves will pay those extra taxes, not the customers. Right?

Comment by az_lender
2009-10-03 14:11:12

Since most banking services are unnecessary to most people, I have no problem w/ banks being taxed and passing it along.

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Comment by measton
2009-10-03 11:52:30

Yes how fortunate the world would feel to be bailing out US banks directly. It would reward the most irresponsible and those that allow banks to hide losses. Of course by then maybe they’ll have their dream of a world regulatory body and government.

 
 
Comment by ATE-UP
2009-10-03 08:28:41

How much is a Trillion?

Some examples…

The number of lost cells in my fossilized Fred Flintstone liver.

I’m off to the Division Champs St. Louis Cardinals Baseball dead baseball game with a bunch of friends to look at the future. Have a good day all!!!

A box that holds a case of copier paper will hold about $72,000 one-dollar bills. It would take 1.4 billion boxes to hold a trillion dollars.

It would take 1.8 trillion pennies to fill the Empire State Building.

If you spent $1 million an hour, non-stop for 24 hours a day, you wouldn’t run out of money for 411 years.

If you took 3.6 trillion one-dollar bills, and placed them end-to-end, that line of bills would reach from Capitol Hill to the sun and then back to Capitol Hill and then back to the sun – and then almost all the way back to Capitol Hill again.

The country has not existed for a trillion seconds.
Western civilization has not been around a trillion seconds.

One trillion seconds ago – 31,688 years – Neanderthals stalked the plains of Europe.

If you have one dollar bills stacked face to back and laid them on there side, it would circle the globe at the equator 10 times.
It’s a $1 million a day since the birth of Christ or the year Zero plus another 737 years to go.

A tightly-packed stack of new $100 bills totaling $1 million would be about 4 feet high. A billion dollars, 4,000 feet high or equivalent to about three Sears Towers stacked on top of one another. That means a stack of $100 bills totaling $1 trillion would be 789 miles or 144 Mt. Everests stacked on top of one another.

To put things in perspective, current estimates put the number of stars in the Milky Way at somewhere between 100 and 400 billion. The U.S. population is slightly over 303 million, and the world population is around 6.6 billion.

Comment by Mike in Carlsbad
2009-10-03 19:29:12

Luckily Google has a program to help you visualize it!

http://sketchup.google.com/

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-10-03 08:30:29

US Senators Introduce Foreclosure Rescue Legislation

By Jessica Holzer
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)–Four U.S. senators introduced legislation Wednesday to require lenders to offer loan modifications to qualified borrowers before seizing their homes.

The legislation, sponsored by Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., would also set aside nearly $6.4 billion of federal funds so states can offer mortgage assistance to homeowners who’ve lost their jobs or otherwise experienced a sharp loss of income. The states would use the funds to offer grants or subsidized loans to borrowers.

The legislation comes amid growing frustration with the pace of lender and government efforts to help people avoid foreclosure. Job losses have also taken their toll on household incomes, making it even more difficult to help borrowers.

The legislation would penalize lenders who initiate foreclosures on homeowners deemed qualified for a loan modification and cap foreclosure fees. It would also funnel $80 million in federal funds to states and towns to establish mandatory foreclosure mediation programs.

Sens. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., and Jeff Merkley, D-Ore. offered the legislation along with Reed. Whitehouse, Merkley and Reed all sit on the Banking Committee, which has jurisdiction over housing issues.

 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-10-03 08:33:51

Man Shot by Cops After House Auctioned Off

PHOENIX (CBS/KPHO) So many these days can relate to the distress of losing a home, but neighbors in one north Phoenix neighborhood are struggling to understand why one man’s struggle had to end the way it did.

Police said the problems started Tuesday when two men drove to a house near 31st Avenue and Sandra Terrace and told the man there that they’d just purchased the home at auction.

“He obviously became upset, made some comments, and went inside and came back out with a gun,” said Detective James Holmes of the Phoenix Police Department.

Investigators said the man fired at the new owners’ cars. The new owners ran and were not hurt. Officers arriving on scene reported the man at the house had a gun in one hand and a beer in the other. Police say negotiators tried talking him down, but at some point in the negotiations, the man pointed his gun at a police vehicle.

“At that point, (the SWAT team) fired two sage bullets, which are rubber bullets, at the gentleman. At that point, he raised his weapon and officers returned fire,” said Det. Holmes.
Neighbors heard several gunshots.

“It breaks my heart,” said Jim Ledune, a neighbor.

Another neighbor, who sells foreclosures for a living, said losing a house isn’t worth losing your life, but he does understand how tough it is.

“You’ve lost more than your home. You’ve lost something that you stand for, worked hard for and it didn’t work,” said Charlie Sykes, a neighbor.

As of Wednesday morning, police had not released the name of the man who was shot and killed by officers or the names of the officers involved in the shooting.

Comment by Muggy
2009-10-03 09:06:06

“You’ve lost more than your home. ”

If you can consider the situation rationally, you haven’t.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-10-03 09:31:24

Not to delve into the FB’s inner pathology, but I’m guessing he was the sort who just couldn’t stand to play the game and lose.

Facing your problems with a beer in one hand and a handgun in the other is bound to end badly.

A fatal shooting at a house won’t do anything for the resale value, either.

Comment by NYchk
2009-10-03 09:57:50

We don’t even know why he was foreclosed on. Lost job? Medical bills? Divorce?

Gloating assumes bad things never happen to good people.

Comment by Milkcrate
2009-10-03 10:59:52

+1

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-10-03 11:18:40

I wasn’t gloating. This is a needless tragedy for all concerned. For whatever reason, this guy was at the end of his rope. That didn’t give him the right to pull a gun on the new owners or get into an armed standoff with police.

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Comment by X-Gsfixr
2009-10-03 14:52:21

And we don’t know what the “new owners” said either. But I’ll bet it wasn’t very tactful.

Heard of “Suicide by Cop”? Maybe they figured “Expedited Eviction by Cop” would work out better/cheaper than those oh-so-pesky and time consuming eviction proceedings.

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Comment by Muggy
2009-10-03 15:39:42

“Gloating assumes bad things never happen to good people.”

People need to learn to fail with grace.

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Comment by Milkcrate
2009-10-03 17:21:10

Grace could be extended to some who fail.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-10-04 04:03:36

We’re both being vague, so let me be specific:

This guy shot at some people, and then pointed a gun toward police. How much grace are you looking to extend to this man?

 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-10-03 10:42:17

Another version of this story said that he went back inside the house to get more beer several times during the negotiations.

 
Comment by Ted
2009-10-03 13:28:43

“Facing your problems with a beer in one hand and a handgun in the other is bound to end badly. ”

Bingo, that can never end well.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 15:06:59

“Facing your problems with a beer in one hand and a handgun in the other is bound to end badly. “

Are you sure? Several million bubbas (and their counterparts “gangstas”) can’t be wrong… can they? :lol:

Comment by pismoclam
2009-10-03 17:59:38

He probably ran out of beer, or it was warm. Warm beer makes me crazy as well. I’m NOT British.

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Comment by pismoclam
2009-10-03 17:56:31

Do you have to report in AZ on the TDS that there was a ’shooting death’ at the property ?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:55:45

A beer in one hand and a shotgun in the other. I can just picture that. Maybe he should have had a stein full of Jose Cuervo. Would have been less painful for him if he gulped it down before he went down…

As a geek, for me it would be a bag of dubble stuffed oreos in one hand and a large pizza in the other hand. Phoenix police are fascist enough to take me down for that anyway.

 
Comment by jane
2009-10-03 21:38:55

Let’s give the man some credit. Suicide by cop has always been an honorable option. I can conceive a clearly reasoned process of weighing options, and then a choice made with due deliberation. All that remained were the details.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 21:04:29

“Man Shot by Cops After House Auctioned Off”

That is only one of so many reasons I can think of to avoid buying a foreclosure home at a rock-bottom discount price. What if the crazed former owner returns with gun in hand to reclaim his stake in the Ownership Society?

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-10-03 22:43:20

Maybe he wasn’t “Economically Viable” like the Michael Douglas character in the movie Falling Down?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 08:34:56

It’s very hard to fathom San Diego home prices rising off a base in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, against the backdrop of 850,000 people living in poverty. Where is the end-user demand coming from?

S.D. Poverty Rate Reaches Highest Level In A Decade
By Hank Crook, Gloria Penner
Editors Roundtable | Friday, October 2, 2009

With unemployment and poverty on the rise, San Diego has become one of the hardest hit cities in the nation.

Above: With unemployment and poverty on the rise, San Diego has become one of the hardest hit cities in the nation.

Comment by rentor
2009-10-03 11:48:47

Short drive back for the gardner to tend his own garden.

 
Comment by rentor
2009-10-03 11:53:53

Unless they do something about H1-b & L1 visa’s CA is not going to see wages rise in hitech industries. Along with wage stagnation we will have hoards of H1-b’s & L1’s brought to USA trained and shipped back with high paying jobs. This cycle will lead to more and more people ending up in poverty in CA while places like Bangalore, India thriving and lifting a huge percentage into middle class.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 15:10:12

That’s… that’s…. that’s just damn commie / racist talk!

Living wages? Hiring and training our own citizens? Where do you get these crazy ideas?!

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-10-04 06:40:59

rentor ….When I heard a report that Stock Companies income was up 20% for the first half of the year ,I couldn’t help but think that they were firing more people than they had to ,while not raising wages .

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-03 17:09:55

With continued accelerating unemployment, the worst of the crisis is ahead of us. The recent knife-catching by both infestors and the impressionable will end badly as they realize there are few people willing or capable of paying their rental/sale prices. I don’t think the bottom will be met with vigorous purchase activity as has been the case lately, but rather with little fanfare as nobody will care about housing anymore. We’re in for years of pain.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:51:49

In some cities you can have a net worth of say, $905,000, and be considered living on a poverty level. If half of what you own is in T-bills and the other half is in VFINX, which tracks the S&P 500, you would probably have an average annual income of $30,000 over the ten year period ending today, if you rebalanced annually. I think that $30,000 is poverty level in San Diego. Maybe not poverty level in some places in Louisiana or Mississippi.

A sister of mine was earning somewhere between $30,000 and $45,000 in San Diego in the late 1990s to about 2003. She lived in La Jolla and Hillcrest. With the poverty level very high, I expect lots of prices to fall in rent, dining out, and such.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-10-03 09:00:17

We drove up to Utahrrr last night from Socal. Traffic was super light toward Vegas. No getaway weekend evident. I even let my 17 YO drive for a couple of hours.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-10-03 10:03:31

ROI on the parental role = finally the kid can drive, when dear ole’ dad needs a break.

Comment by dude
2009-10-03 10:27:58

No kidding, I was able to read yesterday’s bits bucket and catch up.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-03 12:55:47

Especially easy with drummin’s little add-on

http://home.avvanta.com/~drumminj/joshuatree.html

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Comment by fecaltime!
2009-10-03 12:49:09

I tell ya, those expressions they use on 98.1 and 99.7 crack me up “Get away friday” and “going home sunday”. A few weeks back I drove during prime traffic time from socal to vegas and was cooking along at 85 most of the way. They are opening up a new casino in december called ARIA, just got the brochure in the mail. This should further undermine the hotel pricing.

Fecaltime!

 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 14:39:17

No traffic…then I guess they don’t need that high-speed railroad?

I can think of only three routes that need high-speed rail: West Coast San Diego to Seattle. East coast Miami to Boston. Midwest Houston to Chicago. That’s IT.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 15:11:54

You need one east to west.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:38:20

New Orleans to Los Angeles.

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Comment by Big V
2009-10-03 15:09:31

Why is everyone obsessing about the city where the Olympics will not be held? Wouldn’t it make more sense to just think about the city where the Olympics will be held? And since when is this decision somehow reflective of the President? Since never, that’s when. So it’s in Rio. That’s nice.

Comment by oxide
2009-10-03 15:44:23

Then you haven’t been watching the news. The Today Show was just a chatter chatter chatter of how this reflected from and on the President.

Some idiot on the radio thought that Chicago was elimnated because Michelle O showed up in a “gold” dress, how presumptuous of her! Oh for heaven’s sake. Michelle wears yellow all the time, like at the Inauguation. This was probably decided before Obama was ever elected.

Rio was a shoe-in from the beginning, simply because it will be the first Olympics in South America, and the US has had multiple Olympics. Chicago was ousted becuase the USIOC and the international IOC were at odds, and it would be too difficult to get visas for upwards of 12000 athletes, along with equiment and trainers and coaches.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-10-03 15:11:43

So I’m listening to NPR, and some knucklehead comes on (an expert I suppose) and starts telling me all about how the internet has made me more free to choose what information I want to absorb, but that FREEDOM ISN’T ALWAYS GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.

Hey, dude from NPR whose name I didn’t bother to catch, I gotta message for you: Pho Queue.

Comment by Muggy
2009-10-03 15:43:20

The internet is the best thing ever to happen to information. It forces the user to deploy judgment and skepticism; things that were not always done by newspaper CorporateMouthPieceShill readers.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-03 17:09:50

…and helps to quickly identify those who can’t or won’t think for themselves or realize what tools they are.

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-10-03 20:13:22

I’ve been noticing that so much of financial news, on PBS and commercial radio, is just corporate shilling. The reporters are looking to make the deadline for the next report, they need to find someone who seems like an expert, who’s willing to talk on the subject, and so much of the time, it’s someone in the industry who’s agenda is to spin.

So much BS. But the other amazing development is the fact there is so much other information out there, including blogs like this. I shudder to think about how it was when the media was so much more monolithic.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 19:50:37

FREEDOM ISN’T ALWAYS GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY DICTATORSHIP

Wasn’t Obama supposed to appoint some kind of internet Czar to make sure bloggers don’t get too uppity?

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-03 20:35:43

He might have done so already. Be careful what you post.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:45:00

Oops…

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Comment by jim
2009-10-04 08:46:20

You say this like the gvt actually runs the internet. Imagine the results if they actually tried to crack down wholesale. It would leave it a smoking ruin as EVERYONE started to just randomly destroy things in retaliation.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-10-03 15:54:50

Is it any different over here?

The pain in Spain is mainly due to hiding losses, again…

Pain in Spain May Linger as Banks Seek to Avoid Property Losses

By Charles Penty and Sharon Smyth

Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) — Maria Jose Lozano, a civil servant from Madrid, left a recent property fair empty-handed after discovering that home prices were still out of reach in a market where sales have dropped 50 percent from their 2006 peak.

“We came here expecting to find a bargain, or at the very least some reduced-price homes, but we’ve seen nothing,” said Lozano, 49, after browsing through the offerings, including properties that lenders such as Banco Santander SA and Caja Madrid acquired in exchange for canceling developers’ debts.

Banks bought about 110,000 homes to keep losses off their books as Spain’s property bubble burst, according to real estate researcher RR de Acuna & Asociados in Madrid. Now they’re using strategies reminiscent of the boom times — 100 percent mortgages, low interest rates and free cars — to sell homes, potentially slowing a drop in prices that’s needed to spur recovery from Spain’s worst recession in 60 years.

“Maybe you can create some accounting value with all these tricks, but in the end it doesn’t make the situation any better and in the long term makes it worse,” said Luis Garicano, a professor of economics and strategy at the London School of Economics, in a phone interview.

Spanish lenders acquired at least 20 billion euros ($29 billion) of real estate in the past 18 months, according to data compiled by analysts at Zurich-based Credit Suisse Group AG. There are as many as 1.6 million empty homes in Spain, an overhang that may take seven years to clear with annual demand running at about 218,500 units, Acuna & Asociados estimates.

Instead of cutting prices, banks are offering more generous financing terms for their own properties than those being sold by third parties, said Fernando Rodriguez de Acuna, president of Acuna & Asociados.

“The banks are reducing financing costs to get rid of their housing stock, but this solution has its limits,” he said in an interview. “The only way banks will be able to sell homes they haven’t sold in the mid-term will be to do so at a loss.”

Santander, Spain’s biggest lender, has acquired more than 4 billion euros of real estate and is selling homes through Altamira Santander Real Estate, its property arm.

Altamira offers clients variable-rate mortgages at the one- year euro interbank offered rate plus 0.4 percent, according to its Web site. That’s 1.64 percent at current rates. Santander offers a variable rate mortgage at Euribor plus 1 percent, according to data published by El Pais newspaper.

The bank also offers 100 percent financing, mortgage insurance and aid to buyers of holiday homes, according to the Web site. Altamira said in August that it had sold at least 1,100 of the 2,550 newly built properties it had on sale.

A spokeswoman for Madrid-based Santander declined to comment on whether the bank’s policies were slowing a recovery. The spokeswoman, who asked not to be identified because of company policy, said Santander’s booth at the property fair was informational, and it didn’t try to sell homes at the event because it believes prices have adjusted to the market.

Banco Popular Espanol SA, Spain’s third-biggest commercial bank, bought 2.3 billion euros of property and is selling homes through its Aliseda Gestion Inmobiliaria unit. La Caixa, Spain’s biggest savings bank, throws in a free car for anyone under 35 who buys an apartment through its property company.

Banco Popular has no intention of selling homes for less than the bank thinks they’re worth because low interest rates mean the cost of holding them is comparatively cheap, Chief Financial Officer Jacobo Gonzalez-Robatto said in July.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-10-03 17:18:02

Any good way to short these banks? These guys are truly delusional.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:12:25

The pain in Spain
has mainly banks to blame.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:13:42

I utterly love Broadway puns…

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-10-03 17:13:49

CMO’s

Anybody here buying CMO’s? If so what type and why?

Polly, can you offer any commentary on CMO investing?

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-03 19:34:38

CMO’s
Anybody here buying CMO’s? If so what type and why?
Polly, can you offer any commentary on CMO investing?

Ummm…sell these CMO thingies to stupid people who aren’t paying attention and don’t ask pesky questions?
That always seems to work really good lately.

…look, okay, exeter, I’m sorry. I’ve had some real cider. That was just frivolousness.
Although I probably should charge you 12% just for the good advice, because that was pretty good advice.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:00:33

Is all real estate still local these days?

The NAR has some lame advertisement to that effect that I hear from time to time as a plug for their support of NPR (defunct NAR economist David Lereah’s voice?). NPR taking money from the NAR is a case of the damned funding the desperate.

And why is The Economist cheerleading for higher home prices? Haven’t they heard that affordable housing is a laudable policy objective?

Finance and Economics

Property prices
House proud?

Oct 3rd 2009
From Economist.com
Property prices are still crumbling in most countries, but there are some reasons for cheer

THE global economic crisis was accompanied by a collapse in house prices in most rich (and some not-so-rich) countries around the world. The IMF has compared house prices in the first quarter of this year with their level a year ago in 52 rich and emerging housing markets. It found a median house-price decline of 7%. The figures drive home just how savage the falls in house prices have been in many countries.

America’s housing bust may be close to the global average but the declines in some countries are mind-boggling. Latvia, with a wrecked economy propped up by emergency IMF funding, saw an annual decline in house prices of nearly 60% to the end of the first quarter. During that period Estonia and the United Arab Emirates also saw collapses of nearly 40%. In Britain they fell around 20%.

Optimists will also find some solace in the IMF’s comparative analysis. In a fifth of the 52 markets studied by the IMF, prices were higher than a year earlier. Some of these are big emerging markets which are still growing relatively fast, such as China and India. But prices are also higher in Argentina, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Israel, Austria and Switzerland. The property market in India looks positively frothy: prices there were, at the end of the first quarter, about 17% higher than a year before. Indian property prices have risen much faster than China’s, despite the latter’s faster growth. But the growing band of property pessimists will doubtless insist that the froth is merely the early warning sign of yet another bubble.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:26:56

“Optimists will also find some solace in the IMF’s comparative analysis. In a fifth of the 52 markets studied by the IMF, prices were higher than a year earlier.”

But bears will revel in Schadenfreude after noting that prices must be at the same level or lower in four-fifths of the 52 markets studied by the IMF.

ALL REAL ESTATE IS GLOBAL, WHEN MEGAGANGBANK, INC AND ITS CENTRAL BANKER LACKEYS RUN AMOK.

BwaHaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHHAAAHAH!!!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:08:11

The average bear is a lot smarter than the average bovine. I’d personally rather be financially savvy than house proud.

And look what a hash the central bankers have made of the global economy by persistently overfeeding the greedy bovine herd! There truly has never been a better time to be a bear.

Leaders

Markets
Please do feed the bears

Oct 1st 2009
From The Economist print edition
The financial world needs its pessimists

NOBODY loves a party-pooper. When asset prices are going up, most people are inclined to celebrate. The bears who argue that asset prices are about to fall tend to get dismissed as out of touch (dotcom sceptics supposedly “just didn’t get it”) or are likened to stopped clocks: occasionally right, but mostly wrong. If they dare to make money out of their beliefs by selling short (betting on falling prices) when a crisis hits, bears are decried as economic vandals and politicians call for their activities to be banned.

The word “bear” brings to mind an irrational, angry creature that lashes out at anything in its path. Of course, like their animal counterparts, some bears can be very wild indeed. The most excitable bears are not so much polar as bipolar. They dabble in conspiracy theories and talk of the collapse of civilisation and the need for investors to sell all paper assets, buy gold and retreat to Idaho. But bulls can be overenthusiastic too, talking of new eras in which asset prices will reach undreamed-of heights (remember the book “Dow 36,000”?). Over the past 20 years it has been the repeated interventions of central banks to rescue bulls, not bears, that have contributed to the current mess by encouraging too much risk-taking.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:15:08

‘…dotcom sceptics supposedly “just didn’t get it”…’

Hah! That was me during the dotcom era, to a tee!!! By George, I just never ‘got it.’

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 20:50:54

I know the Merrill Lynch acquisition was a losing bet, but how did Megabank of America do on its Countryslide acquisition? Does anyone know the outcome of that seemingly-foolish decision executed on Lewis’s watch?

BANK CHIEF RESIGNS

The News The chief executive of Bank of America announced that he would resign, less than a year after his star-crossed takeover of Merrill Lynch.

Behind the News The executive, Kenneth D. Lewis, designed the takeover as a crowning triumph. But even as the ink was drying, Merrill lost $15.3 billion and paid billions in bonuses that bank shareholders knew nothing about when they approved the deal. Now New York’s attorney general is investigating. Mr. Lewis says the merger was strategically important and is paying off.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-03 21:02:13

It looks to me like Ken Lewis and Angelo Mozilo might have very busy retirements ahead of them. Go Darrell!

Countrywide Bribed Public Officials, Congressman Claims
Calif. Lawmaker Presses for Information Related to Countrywide’s Phone Recordings
By MATTHEW JAFFE
Sept. 30, 2009

The controversy surrounding collapsed mortgage lender Countrywide took another turn Wednesday when the ranking Republican on a key House committee openly confronted the panel’s chairman demanding he subpoena Bank of America for information about a murky program that involved public officials.

The challenge from Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., comes in the wake of the recent revelation that Countrywide recorded phone calls with borrowers as part of the program and then those recordings were destroyed. The program, Issa has said, was used by the lender to provide sweetheart deals to federal government officials and members of Congress who worked on housing policy in an attempt to gain their support.

In a heated exchange at a hearing Wednesday morning, Issa told House Oversight and Government Reform committee chairman Edolphus Towns, D-Md., that Bank of America, which bought Countrywide last year, should be subpoenaed for all information related to the program.

“Mr. Chairman, I call on you today to issue that subpoena,” Issa said to Towns. “It is that important that I bring it up at this hearing and I call for you if you cannot do it to step aside and allow this committee to have a vote.”

Issa has requested before that Towns issue a subpoena, but elected to make his protests public at the televised Congressional hearing.

“What we do know is that there is a level of intended corruption by Countrywide that clearly had an effect on government’s decisions for years and we are ignoring it,” the California lawmaker said in his opening statement. “We cannot really understand the failure of government if we do not understand the failure of government officials led by, in fact, an attempt to bribe them.

Related
The Note: Ethics Committee Probes Countrywide Loans for Senators
SEC Charging Ex-Countrywide CEO Mozilo
BofA Chief Lewis in for Congressional Grilling

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 06:27:34

Meet the new chain gang…

BofA’s Ken Lewis to join other fraudsters?
Published September 22, 2009 at 7:30 AM

If he is charged, Lewis could join a long list of CEOs that were slapped with fraud charges — many of which landed in prison. Here are some of the names and their circumstances:

* Former HealthSouth chairman and chief executive Richard Scrushy, 56, was found guilty of bribery and mail fraud for his participation in a scheme to pay $500,000 bribes in return for a spot on a state regulatory panel.

* Former Enron CFO Andrew Fastow, 47, pleaded guilty to fraud, money laundering and conspiracy when he tried to to conceal the company’s massive losses. He was also ordered to forfeit $23.8 million in family assets.

* Former Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio, 60, was convicted of 19 counts of insider trading, and he was ordered to pay a $19 million fine and forfeit $52 million he gained in illegal stock sales.

* John Rigas, 83, founder of cable television company Adelphia Communications, was convicted on charges of bank, wire and securities fraud. Rigas and his sons, who also ran the company, embezzled $2.3 billion in liabilities from corporate investors and used corporation funds as their personal funds. He’s in a federal prison in Butner, N.C., where Bernie Madoff was sent.

* Former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling, 55, was convicted on counts of fraud, insider trading and other crimes related to the collapse of Enron. He sold almost $60 million of his stake in the company with inside information of Enron’s impending bankruptcy, according to the prosecution. Skilling is currently awaiting a re-sentencing hearing.

* Dennis Kozlowski, 62, the former CEO of Tyco International, was convicted in 2005 of crimes related to his receipt of $81 million in purportedly unauthorized bonuses, the purchase of art for $14.725 million and the payment by Tyco of a $20 million investment banking fee to Frank Walsh, a former Tyco director. He is currently serving up to 24 years at the Mid State Correctional Facility in Marcy, N.Y.

* Bernie Ebbers, 68, former CEO of Worldcom, was convicted of fraud and conspiracy as a result of the telecom’s false financial reporting and subsequent $11 billion loss. He is doing 25 years.

* Former Kmart Corp. CEO Charles Conaway, 48, was charged with civil fraud after the SEC accused him of failing to disclose that the retailer was delaying payments to suppliers to save cash in a November 2001 conference call.

* Former CEO of Countrywide Financial Corp., Angelo Mozilo, 68, is also facing charges of civil fraud and charges for offering exotic mortgages to borrowers with a questionable ability to repay them.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 06:46:47

Good riddance, and don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

“Fed Up” Bank Of America Chief Ken Lewis Resigns

Bank of America CEO Kenneth Lewis announced he would resign at the end of the year. One analyst tells Bloomberg News that Lewis had become a “distraction” after taking over Merrill Lynch and buying subprime mortgage company Countrywide, “He’s drifting out to sea like a dying Eskimo, knowing the company can do better and thrive without him.”

The Wall Street Journal reports that Lewis was actually annoyed: “A person close to him says Mr. Lewis was fed up with the criticism that haunted him following the takeover of Merrill Lynch & Co. ” (Hey, that’s what happens when you take over a company with crazy losses and let them pay their employees huge bonuses.) “The board had told Mr. Lewis it wanted to know how long he planned to stay. He indicated that he would stay through 2010, this person said, but he changed his mind during a vacation to Aspen, Colo., in late August.” Vacation trips to Aspen can totally clear one’s mind.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 06:24:42

US secretly tried to make deal with Goldman Sachs in wake of financial crisis

By John Byrne
Wednesday, September 30th, 2009 — 9:11 am

Warren Buffett balked at conflict of interest

BREAKING 10:08 AM ET:Vanity Fair will report in the next issue of the magazine that US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson — a former head of the investment bank Goldman Sachs — tried to orchestrate secretive deals in the midst of the financial crisis but got blowback from prominent investor Warren Buffett. The following press release was obtained by Raw Story; the magazine appears today on newsstands in New York and Los Angeles.

NEW YORK, N.Y.—The government secretly tried to orchestrate a deal involving Goldman Sachs in the week following Lehman Brothers’ collapse and considered using the Federal Reserve to help support such a transaction, Andrew Ross Sorkin reports in the new issue of Vanity Fair.

In an excerpt from his forthcoming book, Too Big To Fail: The Inside Story of How Wall Street and Washington Fought to Save the Financial System—and Themselves, Sorkin reports that the deal, which was nearly consummated, would have merged Goldman Sachs and Wachovia. Henry M. Paulson, the Treasury secretary and former C.E.O. of Goldman, was deeply involved in the process, contacting both Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman’s current C.E.O., and a Wachovia board member, and strongly urged both to consider it. Wachovia’s C.E.O., Robert Steel, was a former vice-chairman at Goldman Sachs and Paulson’s former number two at the Treasury Department.

Sorkin reports that Warren Buffett was also contacted about investing in the merged company, but told a banker at Goldman that it would never happen. “By tonight the government will realize they can’t provide capital to a deal that’s being done by the former firm of the Treasury secretary with the company of a former vice-chairman of Goldman Sachs and former deputy Treasury secretary,” Buffett said. “There is no way. They’ll all wake up and realize, even if it was the best deal in the world, they can’t do it.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 06:32:16

Here is some uplifting news for the anti-government zealots to cheer about:

Union-Tribune Editorial
Crisis and opportunity
Both are found in San Diego’s $179 million black hole

2:00 a.m. October 4, 2009

If it is true that every crisis poses not just trouble but opportunity too, then San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders and the City Council are up to their necks in both as they face a gargantuan $179 million deficit in next year’s budget.

Sanders was commendably blunt about what it all means. “Make no mistake about it,” he said, “there will be cuts and the public will feel them.” So will city employees. “There will be layoffs,” he said, including in the police and fire departments.

Comment by Michael Viking
2009-10-04 07:35:12

Hooray!!!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 07:49:16

May you live out the waning years of your time on the planet in a society where there are no police or fire services…

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-04 08:09:28

and PLENTY of meth heads… maybe they will finally legalize possession of drugs to stop crime.

and make it a felony to sell even 1 joint or gram

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 06:35:15

The FHA is now tightening its lending standards on reverse mortgages. Could FHA tightening be a death knell for the vestigial bubble?

Nation’s Housing
FHA puts limits on reverse mortgages

Kenneth R. Harney

2:00 a.m. October 4, 2009

WASHINGTON — Declining home values have put a serious squeeze on one of the mortgage market’s most popular and fastest-growing financing concepts: the Federal Housing Administration’s reverse mortgage program for seniors 62 and older.

In a letter to reverse mortgage lenders Sept. 23, FHA Commissioner David Stevens said his agency must reduce the maximum amounts seniors can receive on reverse mortgages because of a $798 million estimated budgetary shortfall for the program in the coming fiscal year.

Mortgage industry sources said the move amounts to a 10 percent cutback for all new FHA reverse mortgage applicants starting Oct. 1. Borrowers who already have FHA reverse loans will not be affected.

Peter Bell, president of the National Reverse Mortgage Lenders Association, says the policy change could prevent more than one out of five applicants from paying off their existing home mortgage debt with the proceeds of a new reverse loan. That, in turn, could leave some senior homeowners in danger of falling into serious delinquency on their current loans, even ending up in foreclosure. The total number of seniors affected could be in the tens of thousands, Bell said, since roughly 130,000 new loans are projected for fiscal 2010.

Dennis Ceizyk Sr., vice president of Heartland Mortgage in Tucson, Ariz., says the FHA’s move immediately affects two of his company’s clients — a Phoenix couple in their late 70s who no longer can afford the monthly payments on their existing mortgage. They had planned to take out a reverse mortgage yielding them $92,500 in cash on a house valued at $125,000. The $92,500 lump sum would pay off their $75,000 home mortgage balance, plus closing and other transaction costs, leaving them approximately $6,000.

“They’d be able to get out from under their mortgage payments and have a little money in their pockets” while still remaining in their house, Ceizyk said in an interview. But under the FHA’s new rule, the $92,500 in initial proceeds would be reduced by $9,250 to $83,250 — not enough to pay off their loan and handle the combined closing expenses.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-04 06:44:25

Posted on Sun, Oct. 04, 2009 03:00 AM
Several mortgage firms getting federal funds have spotty records
By CHRIS ADAMS
McClatchy Newspapers

* Firms are getting billions, yet aren’t averting foreclosures

Several firms now participating in the Treasury’s program to modify troubled mortgages have run into problems with federal or state regulators for their treatment of their customers over the years. Included are:

-Select Portfolio Servicing Inc., a Utah-based company formerly known as Fairbanks Capital Corp. In 2003, Fairbanks agreed to pay $40 million because of mortgage servicing practices that included “force-placed insurance” - or sticking customers with unnecessary insurance costs - and failing to properly credit payments that came in on time. The company promised to improve its business practices - then it changed its name.

Select didn’t respond to requests for comment.

-Countrywide Home Loans Inc., part of Countrywide Financial, the company that was one of the major forces behind the rash of risky mortgages and which Bank of America Corp. purchased in July 2008.

According to a 2008 lawsuit by the Illinois attorney general and other states, consumers who fell behind on their mortgages and then called Countrywide were “shuffled from person to person and even department to department before reaching someone who can actually address their concerns.” Even then, the lawsuit said, Countrywide demanded an upfront payment before working on a modification - and often, consumers paid up front even though there was no chance their loan could be reworked.

-Carrington Mortgage Services LLC, based in California, was sued in July by the Ohio attorney general for “providing incompetent, inadequate and inefficient customer service” for homeowners seeking modifications. The state said Carrington imposed unjustified fees and pressured borrowers into loan modifications that are “unconscionably one-sided” in Carrington’s favor.

A Carrington spokesman said the company has modified loans for approximately half its customers and that company officials are “proud of our track record.” He called the Ohio lawsuit “meritless.”

-Saxon Mortgage Services Inc., a unit of Morgan Stanley, was sued in 2008 by the attorney general of Missouri. According to the lawsuit, Saxon failed to properly credit loan payments even after customers had proved the payments had cleared their bank accounts. Saxon then charged late fees to those customers, who couldn’t get anybody on the phone when they called in for an explanation. While not admitting wrongdoing, Saxon settled the case and agreed to a voluntary compliance agreement.

-EMC Mortgage Corp. in 2008 settled with the Federal Trade Commission over its practices. According to the FTC, the firm charged homeowners unauthorized property inspection fees, unfair late fees, and “engaged in unlawful and abusive collection practices.” It charged borrowers for “property inspection fees” even when the purpose of the inspector’s visit was to attempt to collect on the loan. It masked its caller identification information to trick people into answering its multiple phone calls, the FTC said. EMC agreed to pay $28 million to settle the charges.

(The firm is now a subsidiary of JPMorgan Chase & Co., although it wasn’t at the time of the infractions the FTC cited; Chase had no comment on the settlement.)

-Green Tree Servicing, a Minnesota company, agreed to a settlement with the Texas attorney general in 2006 over its handling of mobile home mortgages. According to Texas officials, Green Tree repossessed mobile homes and then sold them to unlicensed dealers. Those dealers, in turn, sold the homes to unwitting customers; some were uninhabitable, with overdue taxes and unpaid lot rents assessed against them. Green Tree agreed to stop working with unlicensed dealers and help homeowners who had been issued invalid titles.

Green Tree had no comment on the settlement.

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-10-04 07:36:42

Warnings of Takeovers:

Many remember Dwight Eisenhowers warnigs of Military takeovers and the famous movie “Seven Days in May “,and Nikita Khrushchev with his famous warning that America will be defeated from within and Communist will prevail . But I think that there has been little defense against Wall Street
and Big Business Industrial Complex and their Global outreach takeover .

To sum up Kudlow on the business channel on Friday, he said in essence that
business profits had gained 20% the first 6 months of the year,all this in
a American environment of massive layoffs and tent cities cropping up
because of long term unemployment . Banks and Investment houses being bailed out by the trillions ,yet no talk about the cause of lack of jobs for Americans .

Could it be true that Native born American Politicians could sell out their Country for money so certain elite business and left-wing power groups could advance their agenda ? Could elected official be so near-sighted and self -serving that
they didn’t see the advancement of Big Business interest and communist agendas would undermine the American system and America itself . Could it also be that the politicians were blind to the advances of associations like Acorn
that seem to be pushing a communist agenda of re-distribution of the wealth at any cost by questionable means .

Third World Countries seem to always have a weak middle class and in
the last 15 years the power brokers having a voice in America have been the rich and the poor with the great middle class being undermined day by day, in spite of the Great Middle Class being the rock that made America strong,that came about because of strong Constitutional principals being the guiding light .

Now we are engaged in a great power struggle ,playing out on the World stage no less . Does the middle class even have a voice anymore ,or is the Communist and Corporation takeover a given ?

 
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