October 14, 2009

Bits Bucket For October 14, 2009

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428 Comments »

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 07:11:10

Mama mia…Its lookin like dow 10,000

Comment by arizonadude
2009-10-14 07:15:03

More people drinking another round of kool aid.Isnt it funny how 6 months ago it looked like a total crash and now were in a new bull market?All of a sudden companies are beating estimates.I smell a huge rat.

Comment by Kim
2009-10-14 07:20:00

“I smell a huge rat.”

Yep. DH happened to buy the daily fishwrap yesterday (we normally don’t during the week), and there were no fewer than eight pages of foreclosure and judicial sales notices. Its very hard to reconcile that with the party Wall Street is throwing today.

Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 07:44:46

You forget that Main Street is irrelevent. As long as the politicians and bankers are left standing, it’s all good.

Nothing will be done for “Main Street” until just before next year’s elections, when Congress will start distributing some crumbs, so they can say they are “doing something”.

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Comment by Al
2009-10-14 08:05:26

Maybe it’s time to start the HBB Political Party. Lots of potential reps from all over the country. As long as the HBBPP doesn’t try to put forward a health care reform proposal, it could be a pretty unified movement.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 08:14:29

Al:

Here is what I would like to see:

Everybody is entitled as Americans (not illegals) to a yearly checkup..blood test, pap smear, prostate mammogram etc.

Basic dental cleaning plaque and fixing cavities…

No American should be denied this because they cant pay for it.

We NEED to know your medical history, and having decent teeth will help in your job searching/ interviews . So its not a waste of money

After that you should have levels of insurance co-pay deductibles that you choose.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:19:01

So how bad will things have to get for Joe 6 Pack to break out his torch and pitch fork?

Anecdotal note: 20% of my daughter’s graduating HS class joined the military. And we are supposed to be a town with a low unemployment rate, probably because all the dumb and/or poor kids join the military.

Another number published by our local school disctrict. In the past year about 25% of all the district’s students had been “homeless” for a 6+ week span. “Homeless” can mean living with relatives or friends though. Still, a pretty high number. Oldest daughter can’t find a P/T job.

It’s all good!

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 08:23:01

We NEED to know your medical history?

Why? And who is “we?”

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 08:23:34

aNYCdj,

Amen. I’ve been advocating that for years! Along w/ it ( as we’ve mentioned in the past ) it should come with a healthy dose of tough love.

Your LDL/HDL are at unhealthy levels because… you are morbidly obese! NOW! Let’s get you on a path toward a healthier diet!

What’s so wrong w/ that? How can anyone possibly object to ‘that’. ( Full Disclosure ) My youngest daughter ( total “stress case” ) I wonder where she gets it from? had an hyperthyroidism “event”. I had to leave work and -sprint- ( remember I don’t have a car ) to drive… her to the hospital 4 blocks away. Her employer HC Plan won’t kick in until the 1st of November! ( So guess ‘who’ is getting stuck w/ THAT bill! )

It’s an easily detectable condition that would have shown up in annual blood test/physical. Yet here we ‘are’!

 
Comment by Al
2009-10-14 08:56:04

aNYCdj,

I’ve studies health care delivery from a Canadian perspective, which of course requires comparison to the US. I’ve never liked either model entirely. My personal conclusion was there should be basic health care provided at the provincial level, but there should be more room for extended (private) care. I believe it’s similar to your proposal, though it would go further. If it’s a common ailment (the type that keeps people from work) and there is an established and cost effective treatment, then it should be covered.

I also concluded that preventive medicine gets good bang for the buck ($ vs health outcomes), and thus isn’t profitable for the private sector. One rationale for govt meddling.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 09:30:18

Bill:

We could include..um your wife? kids parents? let alone you…
We NEED to know your medical history?
Why? And who is “we?”

DinOR:

Full disclosure i just had 2 blood tests ekg sonogram heart…bp etc all came back normal for someone who should weight a lot less then i do
———————————————-
it should come with a healthy dose of tough love…Your LDL/HDL are at unhealthy levels because

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 09:57:26

Insurance companies in the US don’t do preventative medicine because it costs them money in the present and it is likely that the benefit (savings due to lower medical costs because of better health of the patients) will go either to a different insurance company (because the employer or employee has moved to a different insurance company) or to Medicare.

Single payer or massive regulation is required to get the benefits of preventative care into the US insurance system.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 09:59:36

Or people could pay for it themselves, but if you want to do all this “bend the curve” stuff, it seems that Americans don’t do it on their own, no matter what we should do.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 10:05:57

polly,

Why aren’t you shouting that from the rooftops!? Frankly, I haven’t heard ‘anyone’ ( from either camp ) make what ’should’ have been a common sense observation!

( Slaps forehead in less than playful and demonstrative fashion ) Well of course not. Not only would they get stuck w/ the tab in the present, it actually “gives their competitor an unfair advantage!”

“We’re here to insure ‘our’ risks, not the risks of ‘others’ ” ( Does that sound about right for the boardroom? )

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 11:27:35

Well, DinOR, it isn’t an original observation with me. That one is old enough that I don’t remember where I heard/read it. If I had to guess it was probably off Slate or Salon and I haven’t read either one regularly for years.

I think that the public health “general wisdom” is that you can’t get most people to do preventative stuff like exercise and eat better even if it is covered by insurance. That is why a doc who finds you have high blood pressure will pull out the prescription pad. Besides, prescribing something allows him to keep the drug reps visiting his office with special treats (lunch!) for his staff and 20 minutes spent counseling you about diet and exercise just gets him behind on his schedule of 10 minute per patient appointments. The insurance company won’t pay him anymore to talk to you than they will for writing the prescription (back to where we started).

Public health studies that try to compare medication and exercise/diet modification programs are outrageously difficult to do. Requires huge amount of staff time (not docs) to do the counseling, ask people what is getting in the way of exercise, etc. Sometimes if they really want to do a comparison, they have to provide babysitting, food, etc. While YOU might do it, if the doc talked to you about it, statistically, most people don’t comply with suggested behvior changes.

 
Comment by JLR
2009-10-14 11:37:46

or some of us have high blood pressure because of genetic reasons … totally unrelated to diet/health (major runner/exercise maniac here) and I still need medication for the blood pressure. Ever since I was 26 years old. But guess what - that’s a pre-existing condition, so god help me if I lose my coverage through my job.

it’s not always black and white people …

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 11:43:47

Then make yourself look poor enough to get medicaid.

————————————————————-
so god help me if I lose my coverage through my job.

 
Comment by rms
2009-10-14 11:45:01

“It’s an easily detectable condition that would have shown up in annual blood test/physical. Yet here we ‘are’!”

I buy my own blood panel w/prostate test for $60.00, three times a year at the hospital’s walk-in clinic. In my mind, insurance is for costly unforeseeable events. The problem I have with today’s social medicine is that someone else gets it for free while I have to pay out of pocket; maybe it’ll be different next time?

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-10-14 12:06:09

Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:19:01

“Anecdotal note: 20% of my daughter’s graduating HS class joined the military. And we are supposed to be a town with a low unemployment rate, probably because all the dumb and/or poor kids join the military.”

Saw a headline the other day about the Pentagon saying this was the best year for recruitment since 1973.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 12:33:38

rms,

No argument here! I’d much rather have a plan ( like LifeWise of Oregon ) where we pay around $300 a month for catastrophic illnesses and leave the rest to pay-as-you go!

Someone here once posted that it’s simply incredible how much of a PAY CUT people are willing to subject themselves to just to “have everything covered”! Sad but true. In fact, if more of us looked at things that way, a lot of the bumps, bruises and routine stuff would get a lot cheaper too! ( I mean being that it’s ‘not covered’ and all? )

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 12:56:19

DJ,

If you had said “your family” instead of “we” I would not have commented. You don’t need to know my health history just as I don’t need to know yours.

But I can see just from some of the posts here that there is support for a significantly higher level of social engineering in the future, that will ultimately create laws and criminal penalties (fines, not jail) when weight or cholesterol limits are exceeded or you don’t report to your local gym at least three times a week. Another link in our chains is about to be forged, all in the name of minimizing the public health program’s costs.

“We’re doing it for your own good.”

 
Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-10-14 14:24:47

Health insurance can be reasonable. I pay $284 per mo with Anthem Blue Cross in Ca for a family of 4. 2500 deduct. 3 offices visits per yr at $30 each. we dont need all the ridiculous coverage employers give out. Generic drugs are cheap at Costco. You need to be smart and stay healthy on your own, dont expect doctors to do it for ya.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 15:36:39

Bill:

Would that be a bad thing? As long as its paid for… some people Ok maybe a lot of people need to be pushed or just don’t have good time management skills.

————————
you don’t report to your local gym at least three times a week.

We pretty much did that to smokers…raising taxes sky high and making bars non smoking….I’m sure glad we did. I never smoked but it was bad in some clubs where the owner thought a thick smoky haze in his bar was great ambiance.

 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2009-10-14 10:08:59

I smell a dead, maggot-infested rat carcass fraught with accounting-shenanigans and bad debt. If the bank business is in such outstanding shape with record profits why do we need to hold interest rates at 0% until the apparent end of time?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 15:59:41

Another way to steal from pensioners besides driving down the interest rates on CDs to near zero is to devalue their future fixed income pension payments by massively diluting the value of the currency. Stock market gamblers will benefit greatly from unlimited running of the money press at the expense of Granny and Grampy Pensioner.

 
Comment by robin
2009-10-15 02:32:05

No need to be a grumpy granny or grandpa pensioner if we, as most boomers, have no pensions and our measly 401ks have been decimated. Welacome to Wal-Mart - :)

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 07:25:32

I smell liquidity courtesy of Uncle Sam.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 07:56:30

All of a sudden companies are beating estimates.I smell a huge rat.

Eventually there will be no one left to layoff to keep profits up. The common thread I see in most quarterly announcements is that profits haven’t been falling as fast as sales for most of the Fortune 500. What will they do once every job has been offshored and sales have been flushed down the toilet? If they think that cars and houses aren’t selling now, wait until they see next years sales. I also can’t wait to see how many retailers will fold after New Years rolls around.

What will happen if Macy’s goes under? Will the Thanskgiving parade be moved to Bentonville and be sponsored by Wal-Mart?

Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 08:20:22

More like “Sponsored by the Dollar Store”

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Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:24:18

So they’ll move the Parade to downtown Detroit?

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-10-14 11:48:10

Yes, I connote Turkey Day with cold and grey. For tradition’s sake, better chance for that in Detroit Rock City.

Also, it ties in nicely with the whole, “Detroit Lions on TV every Thanksgiving” strategy as well…I think we just cured what ails that town. ;-)

 
Comment by waiting_in_la
2009-10-14 13:11:43

I grew up in Detroit, and all my family is still there. You post gave me a good laugh - thanks!

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:09:43

“The Wal-Mart Thanksgiving Day Parade”. Oh, yeah, it’s got a real nice ring to it.

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Comment by Kim
2009-10-14 10:27:34

Too bad their employees won’t be able to attend because they’ll be working.

 
 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 10:38:11

Intel beat revenue estimates as well as net income estimates. They cut costs and earned more money. Win-win and why INTC was up 7%.

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Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 11:04:16

Which mostly came out of AMD’s hide and Intel’s increasingly overworked staff.

But it’s definitely a “win-win” for senior management who will no doubt be rewarded with handsome bonuses. The rank and file who did the actual work? Not so much.

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 11:16:46

Most, if not all Intel employees have stock options and Intel has an ESPP. When the share price of INTC goes up everyone get a piece of the action.

And if the workers are not happy and overworked, they can always go elsewhere.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 11:31:34

“And if the workers are not happy and overworked, they can always go elsewhere.”

Are you on drugs? In this economy they can just go elsewhere? You need to read a newspaper.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 11:36:33

“Are you on drugs? In this economy they can just go elsewhere? You need to read a newspaper.”

LOL

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-10-14 11:50:01

Well, then, Polly, the beatings will continue until morale improves! (just joshin’)

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 12:39:44

Are you on drugs? In this economy they can just go elsewhere? You need to read a newspaper.

Based on some of his previous postings, Eddie must have a cache of very good drugs indeed.

(Congrats, Eddie!)

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 13:34:10

When the share price of INTC goes up everyone get a piece of the action.

Been there, done that. In the end those stock options are peanuts and probably underwater right now anyway.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 14:00:12

Hello TrollHolio…… how was your time out? ;)

 
 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 13:42:19

Well, it’s over. I just stuck a toe in TSM.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 14:28:28

A rat you say?

Look up on Wikipedia the First Bank of the United States and the Second Bank of United States. This ain’t the bankers first rodeo.

 
 
Comment by Rancher
2009-10-14 07:17:00

You owe me a new keyboard. Plus the coffee is
exceptionally good this morning, sipping a great
brew while listening to the rain on the roof. Life
is good even if the cats don’t want to go out.

Mondays daily rag had 31 NODs.

Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 07:25:15

Mondays daily rag had 31 NODs ??

Thats what a good friend and my cousin keep telling me and getting worse…

Comment by Rancher
2009-10-14 07:52:39

31 NOD’s, on day in a town of 35k people. We’re averaging about 40 a week and the amounts
owed are climbing.

With a cure rate of 5% for primes, this is not
looking good.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:12:02

“31 NOD’s, on day in a town of 35k people. We’re averaging about 40 a week and the amounts owed are climbing.”

I’m sure a good portion of those defaults are speculators from CA. They infested most small towns in OR and WA. Once they find that real estate doesn’t always go up they’re long gone, leaving the townsfolk holding the bag.

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-10-14 08:25:19

Surprisingly no. Our town was a magnet for
people retiring and those who thought they
could move up, up, and more up, on a salary
that didn’t match their expectations. This used to be a lumber and mining town which
now fancies itself as a tourist town without
any attractions. The city government is run,
as in ramrod anything they want through the
approval process, by a solid core of socialistic
town planning types who know what they are
doing is best for all the ignorant types who
pay their salary.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-10-14 08:29:38

Once they find that real estate doesn’t always go up they’re long gone,

Whhhhoooooo HOOOOOOO! That’s the good part!

leaving the townsfolk holding the bag.

I guess that’s the bad part. But it’s not as bad a bad part as the good part is the good part.

I’m thinking about the tiny town of Pacific Beach, up the coast up from Ocean Shores, there to the west of us, Grizz. You like Pacific Beach? I love Pacific Beach.
Anyway, Cali specuvestors built some gawdawful McMansiony types of crap in a sort of jammed together chancre south of town. They was a’gonna be rich, rich, rich! And toward that end they got a whole passel of variances and built the chancre wayyyyy too close to the big river that goes right by it and then flows directly into the Pacific Ocean. Forgot the river’s name, sorry.
Pacific Beach is a teensy town, mostly retirees, I don’t think they knew what was gonna happen. Too bad none of those retirees seems to have been a retired water-quality specialist, maybe they wouldn’t have granted all those variances.
I don’t know all the details, I’m just hearing about the aftermath. It’s just the same old story, wash, rinse, repeat.
Oh, and by the way—I hear the chancre is might be facing foreclosure….

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:51:49

“I’m sure a good portion of those defaults are speculators from CA.”

“Surprisingly no. Our town was a magnet for people retiring and those who thought they could move up, up, and more up, on a salary that didn’t match their expectations.”

Uh, huh. And where did most of those retirees come from? CA, like yourself? What you may be overlooking is that, in many instances, retiree and specuvestor were synonymous. I can’t remember if you’re in Grants Pass, or Ashland, but both places are CA infestor meccas. House prices in those areas are going to be crushed into oblivion. They’re no different than the little lumber towns in WA. The local economies support sub $100k homes.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:54:39

“I’m thinking about the tiny town of Pacific Beach, up the coast up from Ocean Shores, there to the west of us, Grizz. You like Pacific Beach? I love Pacific Beach.”

I sure do. Grizzly + WA coast = happiness.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 09:10:12

Rancher, Gizzly, Oly,

True observations. A good friend of mine ( native Nevadan and all around “There Will Be Blood” kinda’ guy ) says simply; “It was a town that was “too cute” to survive!”

Once discovered, these hidden gems become the object of every speculator’s desire and there just isn’t enough money in the world to throw at Vail, Aspen, Bigfork, Bend, ( Ashland ) to keep them happy!

We had a link from a property appraiser up in Seattle that felt the sheer amount of -fraud- going on in Bend reached the point of no return NLTN 2004! ( So much for being “late to the party” huh? )

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 09:38:20

“The city government is run,
as in ramrod anything they want through the
approval process, by a solid core of socialistic
town planning types who know what they are
doing is best for all the ignorant types who
pay their salary.”

What, you’re in Missoula? Here all this time I thought you were in Oregon.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 10:09:10

In Montana,

LOL! Yeah who’d have thunk it? I’m right outside of Salem, OR and that pretty much describes the dillrods that run this place to a “t”.

Next thing we’ll find there’s a motion in the works to get an opera for a town of 10,000! ( Hell, even Portland can’t support an “opera” )

 
Comment by DD
2009-10-14 10:27:51

Know of many retirees from TX who now own in Ashland, Bend and so forth. And quite a few from AZ.
Some CA folks from way way way back70-80s. And some retirees from SD who live in Portland as if they weren’t CA re-locators.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 11:03:40

DD,

You may well be right? I’m a “transplant” to OR from Chicago in the mid-70’s. While I respect their vision and take on things ( I’ll -never- be one of ‘them’ )

It’s never been a matter of snobbery on my part, and even when you tell them that actually… your children were born and raised here.., they automatically refer to their legacy. I’ve gotten used to it.

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-10-14 12:32:54

What you may be overlooking is that, in many instances, retiree and specuvestor were synonymous. I can’t remember if you’re in Grants Pass

Grants Pass….and, again, surprisingly, hardly any speculation here. The people who bought moved in. What we do find is a lot of
the housing up for rent right now. A full page
for just rentals that were lived in a few months ago. What I see everyday is a truck
overloaded or a car pulling a trailer that is on the road heading out. No jobs.

I wonder where they are going?

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 16:48:15

“Grants Pass….and, again, surprisingly, hardly any speculation here.”

I’m not buying it, Rancher. Grants Pass had a bubble, too. The median house price went from $125k to $250K in a few short years. No speculation? No way.

 
 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 07:36:17

I have to admitted I totally underestimated the ability of the PPT/QE/Fed Liquidity Pump to prop up the stock market to this point and thus missing much of the ramp-up since March. But I don’t think this will last so no use in crying over spilled milk that will go sour soon.

It is said the Nikkei rallied 50%+ four separate times during its lost decade but today is till 70% lower than its peak at the height of the bubble. Not predicting the Dow will be 70% lower 10 years from now, but just to keep things in perspective.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 07:39:02

You can tell the market is approaching its top when everyone is in or wants in. That’s obviously not the case yet.

Comment by Al
2009-10-14 08:35:57

I think the world is getting too aware of contrarian indicators for them to be much use as indicators anymore. At least that’s what the shoe shine kid told me.

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Comment by Blue Skye
2009-10-14 08:40:44

Sounds like a reasonable rule for normal times. Do you see ANY euphoria around you?

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Comment by Michael Viking
2009-10-14 07:46:48

I must admit it’s close to sucking me back in. It seems all the liquidity that’s getting created is going into the market. When will the rally stop? When will they stop printing money?

The minute I go all in I suppose the rally’s back would be broken. But seriously…if I keep all my money out until the market gets back to where I sold everything, I will have gained nothing. Any patting on my back for getting out when I did will be forever replaced by kicks in the rear for not getting back in.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 08:07:56

Michael:

Just remember is still not translating into any decent job offers for me…

When i see for rent /sale signs coming OFF buildings and people moving in…then i will kick myself for not believing it was real and i missed the boat.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 09:15:38

NYC,

Another excellent point! Unless and until we see a meaningful uptick in employment.., what is it exactly we’re celebrating again?

I’ve DCA’d on a few comm. reit’s over the last year or so ( when ‘yields’ were as high as 36% ) but they’ve come up so far so fast I’d need to see fundamentals firm before I could justify throwing any more at it. IMHO/NIA*

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 09:50:34

My cousin got to a fourth inteview to be a kitchen designer at IKEA in MA. Didn’t get it.

She is personable, extremely well spoken but without any pretention in her manner, COOKS, grew up in a house with a small galley kitchen so she knows about dealing with small spaces, and has years of experience designing industrial kitchens for a restaurant chain (they redesigned their kitchens every time they adjusted the menu for the demographics of a particular location). She would have been fabulous in that job. They had so many people with specific home kitchen design experience, that they didn’t hire her. There is something really wrong with this scenario.

Or maybe they were looking for people with botox and boob jobs and bottle blond hair and high heeled boots and masters degrees to help people pick out wood veneer and particle board cabinets while wearing blue aprons.

Sigh. I have got to figure out something nice to do for her over Thanksgiving. Any ideas?

 
Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:20:27

Take her on a tour of the Fed building. It’s where good ideas come to life.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 10:42:32

Polly:

2 things He look are fine in a good economy, but employers hire the best looking when times are bad.

Maybe she should go back and see who they really hired. And wait for the job to reappear in about 6-8 weeks

They never call back anyone these days, even after 4 interviews they will put the ad back in the paper.
———————————
She is personable, extremely well spoken but without any pretention in her manner,

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 10:48:19

I read over and over how millions of jobs should never have been created in the first place. The construction jobs, the Wall St jobs, the jobs at all the stores selling “luxuries”.
Wasn’t IKEA kitchen designer one of those jobs that the bubble created?

All those jobs were the result of the bubble. Then those jobs went away and you all celebrated as the bubble burst. But now those jobs are not coming back and you’re all bummed out.

You can’t have it both ways.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:54:39

“Or maybe they were looking for people with botox and boob jobs and bottle blond hair and high heeled boots and masters degrees to help people pick out wood veneer and particle board cabinets while wearing blue aprons.”

You may be on to something, here. When there’s a lot of competition to choose from, it usually comes down to looks and personality with looks getting the slight edge.

Say, how’s our house hunting coming? ;)

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 10:56:37

>I read over and over how millions of jobs should never have >been created in the first place. The construction jobs, the >Wall St jobs, the jobs at all the stores selling “luxuries”.
>
>Wasn’t IKEA kitchen designer one of those jobs that the >bubble created?

Since IKEA job is not a contruction job or a Wall St. job, I assume you equate IKEA with selling “luxuries”.

Are you out of your !#@%^ mind?

 
Comment by mikey
2009-10-14 11:11:46

“Or maybe they were looking for people with botox and boob jobs and bottle blond hair and high heeled boots and masters degrees to help people pick out wood veneer and particle board cabinets while wearing blue aprons”

Wow…more coffee for polly before someone really gets HURT !!

:)

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 11:49:38

Umm…Eddie….IKEA is the place that is hiring. They are getting a sufficiently large share of the kitchen redesign business that they needed a new person. It was the restaurant chain (classic mall place) that stopped giving here enough work (she was an independent contractor for them).

There will always be some number of people who want to update their kitchens, though hopefully not withthe expectation that they will make 200% of their money back when they sell the place. IKEA is cheaper than most and you don’t pay a designer a few thousand bucks to just to help you “envision” your space. The kitchen people there are skilled sales people which is kind of the opposite of a worthless job. Businesses need sales people and ones with skills bring more to the company than ones that don’t know anything.

If they are hiring folks who are only used to dealing with McMonstrocity type spaces, they will be very disappointed. My cousin could have helped anyone put together a functional kitchen no matter what sort of space they were in. She wouldn’t have been all snooty to people who said they couldn’t afford granite or engineered stone. And she would have had former customers referring all their friends to her. Loss to IKEA.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 12:55:43

Grizzly…

Well, this place might work:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/apa/1420962875.html

It is REALLY close to downtown, library, transportation movie theatre, and - most important - the BEST place ever for dumplings.

Then again, there is this:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/apa/1416366513.html

But I don’t think I can cover the rent on my own….

 
Comment by holytrainwreck
2009-10-14 13:02:55

DCA=Chase your losses.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 13:59:14

LOL, Polly. Hey, isn’t there something kind of in between? The second one is so ostentatious that I don’t think I’d feel comfortable there. The first seems a bit overpriced for what it is. Alright, twist my arm with the dumplings- get the first one. I’ll go pack my bags. :)

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 14:59:51

Eddie,

In ways, I tend to see ’some’ of your points. IKEA may be ‘inexpensive’ ( but a lot of their loyal followers were back week-after-week making a great many smaller purchases! )

So whether you blow through $30k in one shot on a major kitchen/bath ‘makeover’ or drop $300 bucks every Saturday, it still adds up to… luxury!

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:27:04

“You can’t have it both ways.”

I always try, though.

1) It is sad that so many people ended up employed by the bloated REIC over the past few years, and hence had to lose their jobs when the bubble collapsed.

2) If the government recognized that real estate had reached unsustainably gargantuan proportions before the bubble had burst, and that the structural adjustment currently underway is a necessary part of the transition to a more stable, sustainable economy, and was actively pursuing a post-bubble restructuring strategy, then I could have it both ways. Since instead of facing the real problem at hand and addressing it, they are aggressively pursuing bubble reflation, I cannot…

 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 08:17:36

Same here. And not even the “security” of cash equivs, because of inflation fear..meh.

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Comment by ronpaul
2009-10-14 08:50:28

Same here.

Sitting on cash mostly. Missed the rally and dollar is tanking…..

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Comment by mathguy
2009-10-14 13:27:33

Even in crazy stock market times, you still have to remember to diversify your assets. Cash is king, not the dollar. So don’t just pull everything out of the market and leave it in dollars. Get a basket of Euros, dollars, yen, and even pesos to hold your money in, and you will be averaged out across a few currencies for changing rates. Even a bit of gold is good to have in terms of being “cash”.

 
Comment by packman
2009-10-14 14:01:08

Cash is king, not the dollar.

You said a mouthful right there.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 14:54:49

packman,

+2

“DCA=Chase your losses”

( Does the same hold true even if it goes up? )

Just goes to show how down trodden a lot of us have become! Trust me, I’ve thought the same thing at times. Again, it’s nothing to do blindly ( like in most employer sponsored plans )

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:28:35

“Even in crazy stock market times, you still have to remember to diversify your assets. Cash is king, not the dollar.”

There has never been a more important time to diversify (”cash” included…).

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-14 09:11:11

Who says you have to go all in? Why not go halfway?

I didn’t have the wherewithall to sell before the big drop, But I did lock in a little bit three weeks ago. I still have some years ahead of me, so I didn’t want to get out completely.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 07:50:54

+1, cougar. The concensus around here 2 or 3 yrs back seemed to be that they would try like h*ll, but fail to have much effect.

They’ve had a lot more of an effect than I predicted, though I concur that the stock market is likely just a remarkable bear-market rally, and will not last. Of course, I’ve been wrong before.

Perhaps they will continue to succeed in devaluing the dollar. Even that I suspect may be somewhat transient, though, simply because the other currencies that we are devaluing against also have the same issues lurking at the end of the day. The liquidity bubble was global, and the effects were global, so everyone will be cleaning up the mess. When that sinks in, the dollar may improve relative to the others that are in trouble.

Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 08:45:15

Yeah, even though I missed the bulk of the stock market run up, my unhedged foreign bond holdings is up almost 30% vs. weak USD since beginning of 2009, guess that’s a saving grace.

I would say Euro maybe fundamentally weaker than USD, but other currencies like AUD and CAD are linked to commodities which are high as a result of weak USD. My cousin lives in HK working for some big multinational and he said HK residents are now allowed to hold Reminbi directly for the first time. It would not be surprising the Reminbi will be freely traded on exchanges sooner or later. I am looking into this myself, as much as I hate the idea of the Chinese Yuan taking over in place of the USD but the longer-term tide is very clear to me.

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Comment by Al
2009-10-14 09:00:00

I wouldn’t place any big bets on China. Without consumers to buy their stuff, China could go basket case on very short notice. China and the US seem like an odd sort of siamese twins to me.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 09:18:52

Al,

That’s why their central gov. is working 24/7 to develop a local mkt. for the goods they create. ( Even if it does mean giving these people a bump in wages? ) Grudgingly…

 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-10-14 10:18:38

Relative to Al’s point, it seems PRC has such huge cash stockpiles that it could withstand crashing order numbers from overseas, including Walmart Nation. For a while.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 10:45:28

The only way to get Americans to spend less is to make it nearly impossible (cut off credit cards and reduce wages). Why would a saving culture switch to spending just by being given access to credit. Especially since decades of goverment policy restricting births lead each young couple to realize that they may someday be responsible for supporting their 4 parents and 8 grandparents.

China can switch to government spending as they have boatloads of money. I don’t see how they can shift their whole population over to big spending.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 08:20:29

What makes you think our PPT isn’t more clever or determined to prop up the US headline stock market indexes than were the Japanese authorities in the 1990-2009 period?

Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 08:39:25

I think at the end of the day (or year or decade), the economic fundamental will outlast any manufactured attempt to prop up anything as large as the economy itself no matter what. Since the US economy is external funded, it is at the mercy of foreigners who continue to lend and thus allow the PPT to continue the scheme, it isn’t completely up to a single entity to keep this party going and when you have to rely on someone else to fund your partying booze, the well may run dry just when you think you got an endless supply of booze.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 13:13:26

“…it is at the mercy of foreigners who continue to lend and thus allow the PPT to continue the scheme,…”

Yes and no. Have you paid any attention to exchange rates as of late?

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 13:22:03

>Yes and no. Have you paid any attention to exchange rates as of late?

See my post above about my unhedged, non-dollar denominated foreign bond position.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 10:37:49

I’m up to where I was in August of 2008, which was my peak net worth. But I’m in a more secure position with more cash and government securities and a tad bit more precious metals. My dollar cost averaging, which many people here laugh at, really helped me the last twelve months.

Gold is my insurance against the next stock crash, and I am expecting that to be a doozy. But I’m not a market timer in my mutual funds.

My ratio of stocks, government securities and PMs is 55/34/11.

I continue to buy stock mutual funds earnestly. If it was not for my precious metals insurance, I would probably be 50/50 stocks to government securities. Last night I was thinking one of my 401ks has $97,000 in RGAEX. A large growth US fund. I was thinking with such a big runup this year, why not move that into a bond fund? But then I think gold will probably go to $3,000 per ounce anyway. Best to continue DCA.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 08:18:36

Given the DJIA’s race towards 10K coupled with record Wall Street pay checks, one cannot help but wonder whether last year’s financial crisis was a deliberate fleecing of the American people by top government officials acting in cahoots with Wall Street. I won’t mention any names, but think of the faces you saw on the TV last year saying the financial economy faced Armageddon unless TARP was passed and use your imaginations.

In the aftermath, many Americans are left very house-poor and pension-poor, but the paychecks have never been bigger on Wall Street.

The Wall Street Journal
* OCTOBER 14, 2009

Wall Street On Track To Award Record Pay

BY AARON LUCCHETTI AND STEPHEN GROCER

Major U.S. banks and securities firms are on pace to pay their employees about $140 billion this year — a record high that shows compensation is rebounding despite regulatory scrutiny of Wall Street’s pay culture.

Workers at 23 top investment banks, hedge funds, asset managers and stock and commodities exchanges can expect to earn even more than they did the peak year of 2007, according to an analysis of securities filings for the first half of 2009 and revenue estimates through year-end by The Wall Street Journal.

Comment by Al
2009-10-14 08:28:20

$140B in pay, and less employees to boot.

 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 08:32:42

One of the unique things about my job is getting to see some of these movers and shakers up close.

Our elected representatives are not exactly brain surgeons…….they are good at talking in sound bites (even when the cameras are off), but saying nothing……..because they aren’t any smarter than most of their constituents.

As far as voting, they will vote how their staffs tell them to. That’s where someone needs to look……to see how badly Congressional staffs are infested by former Investment Bankers and their camp followers.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:41:42

“Given the DJIA’s race towards 10K coupled with record Wall Street pay checks, one cannot help but wonder whether last year’s financial crisis was a deliberate fleecing of the American people by top government officials acting in cahoots with Wall Street. I won’t mention any names, but think of the faces you saw on the TV last year saying the financial economy faced Armageddon unless TARP was passed and use your imaginations.”

You talking about Hank “just give me the f***ing money or we’re going to tank this whole sh!thouse” Paulson?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 12:13:14

Taking this logic a bit further, it appears the 2008 govt-engineered financial panic served a number of useful purposes for GS & JPM:

1) It eliminated some key competitors from the playing field (Lehman and Bear Stearns), increasing market power and potential profits for surviving members of the Megabank, Inc cartel;

2) It legitimized the TARP — the largest lump sum tax payment in US history;

3) It legitimized myriad Fed programs to lend money at 0 percent to banks so they can loan it out profitably to their customers.

Other thoughts?

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:11:37

I wouldn’t be surprised to see DOW 12000 within the next several months. The liquidity just never stops. The longer the day of reckoning is postponed, the more painful it’s going to be.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 11:11:54

DOW’s running. Already touched 10k once, and it’s about to again. Might just blow through it today, with all this “better than expected” news.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-10-14 12:16:33

Screw the stockmarket.

I’d rather be happy and invest/waste the money on a 10 day Caribbean Cruise or something this winter.

I’m fairly frugile but I sure as He’ll won’t die worrying about about the next stock picks or a tiny pile of gold.
:)

Comment by DD
2009-10-14 19:02:57

I’m fairly frugile

Now that is an interesting idea. MIkey, can you explain -lol

frugal or agile? or can you bend a quarter with your mind? Lol-

just kidding around!

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Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 07:11:17

Housing Bulls(hitters), it’s not stabilizing. Take a looky.

For the rest of us, advance to 4:40 for a great laugh. It’s a clip of what is happening to prices…. :)

http://tinyurl.com/ygfrnsq

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 07:23:35

What I don’t understand, after watching that video, is how that guy (Whitney) can believe that housing will bottom come springtime when he is aware that housing inventories are triple what’s being reported due to the shadow inventory problem. He acknowledged that we are entering the slow season where prices and sales weaken, yet he somehow believes we are going to work off that massive inventory overhang that quickly? Do these people ever think through what they’re saying?

Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 08:00:58

It’s typical pseudo analyst double talk but at least he’s characterizing the data as grim. He just can’t bring himself align his forecast with the grim data.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 08:21:37

Say, how do you figure inventory? My local realtor site is now showing number of listings for the first time. Divide that number by sales per most recent month, or average monthly or ??

Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 08:45:16

Look… most of the analysis cannot be taken seriously. Wife and I took a ride yesterday evening and we counted more empty(used) houses than we counted 4Sale signs. The empty houses had no signs on them and that lock boxes on the front door knob.

Now you tell me how to figure inventory.

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Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 09:55:40

I just wanted to know the official way of figuring it, sweet thang.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 10:05:35

Ask eddie.

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 10:51:22

Ask Barrack, he has all the answers. And if he doesn’t he has a trillion dollars ready to spend on the issue.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 13:14:05

Got it. According to official stats, looks like 16 mo inventory.

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:26:56

It is normally current inventory divided by monthly sales to give an answer in months of inventory. I agree with Ex though, the shadow inventory is triple the listed inventory in many places, making this number somewhat useless.

In my area, it almost seems that the MLS is playing it the number by limiting listings on the public MLS to 2X monthly sales. It has sat there for months now.

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Comment by Jim A.
2009-10-14 11:30:09

Inventory = Big
Shadow Inventory = Even Bigger
People who would like to move = Even More.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 15:15:20

Don’t forget still rising foreclosures and bankruptcies.

 
 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-10-14 10:47:21

What is interesting is to see how different regions are reacting to the home price collapse. Local supply/demand (physical bodies in a market and physical housing units) comes into play.

Hear me out…I’m not a realtor.

CA has had a perpetual problem keeping up with housing demand. That’s one of the reasons that home prices went up so much with the credit bubble–credit was gasoline on the lack of supply fire (one of the reasons, not all of the reasons–speculation was there too).

If you look at the US vacancy rates for owner occupied homes, it’s pretty high at like 2.5% (historical norm is closer to 1.7), and it is only down from 2.8% last year.

But if you look at the granular data, different states are faring better or worse. CA, with it’s perpetual housing shortage (difficulty in getting entitlements, etc.) has gone from 3.0% last year (worse than the US as a whole) to 1.8% this year (better than the US as a whole).

As a contrast:

AZ has gone from 3.4% vacancy rate to 3.9% year on year.
FL has gone from 4.7% to 4%.
NV has gone from 6.0% to 5.2%.

Take a look at the data at:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/rates/index.html

Draw your own conclusions.

Remember the foreclosure process is painful, but if there are not enough housing units in a market, it’s a game of musical chairs as prices are falling, not necessarily a massive overhang of empty houses. In some states though, there IS a massive overhang of empty houses. There, it will take time to work through inventories.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 11:32:38

Those numbers look way fishy for CA, given that (reportedly) 500,000 people have left the state since 2004.

Do they really take into consideration all the various forms of abandonment, such as tract homes built but never yet occupied, or vacant homes where the owner walked away but the bank never took possession?

Call me skeptical, but a 1.8 percent vacancy rate sounds implausible.

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Comment by packman
2009-10-14 11:43:40

Additionally those census stats don’t count investment properties that are held off the market - e.g. due to being deeply underwater. That number is probably quite large in CA, FL, etc.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-10-14 12:33:10

From Economy.com has CA population at 35.5MM Jan 2004
Jan 2009 population is 37.0MM.

The 500k of people leaving is fishy, or at least misleading (counting people who are leaving, but not those who are coming in). Where does that number come from?

With respect to the 1.8%. I don’t know whether that number is perfectly accurate or not. And frankly, I don’t care.

If the US Census methodology is flawed, then it is flawed for all states involved, and the relative performance of CA relative to the other disaster states still stands out.

Some more data to consider:

In the 1970’s, roughly 2.2 million units were built in CA (multi and single-family)
In the 1980’s, roughly 2.1 million units were built in CA
In the 1990’s, roughly 1.1 million units were built in CA
In the 2000’s to date, the number is about 1.5 million units in CA.

Where’s the massive oversupply? Is CA still absorbing what was built in the 1970’s and 80’s?

Most evidence points to undersupply based on less than necessary development in the 90’s.

Anyone who is in residential development in CA knows why this is the case…NIMBYism, and long entitlement processes.

If what I’m saying is true, then CA should have an above average household size (more people crammed into fewer housing units). This is in fact the case.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-10-14 12:49:01

And just to be clear. I’m still renting and will for a few years. While the supply/demand imbalance is still there. Home prices are still too high in coastal markets in CA. They will take a few years to correct.

 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-10-14 13:31:28

PB, I wrote a long response that seems to have gotten lost in the mix (or got trapped given its length). Here are a couple of points to consider:

1. From economy.com, CA’s population has grown by ~1.5MM people from 2004 to today. I don’t know where the 500k of people leaving comes from, but I’ve seen no credible source that shows CA population decrease;

2. Read this article - http://www.usc.edu/schools/sppd/futures/pdf/fmf_0426_myers_park.pdf

The gist - a report from 2002 noted that CA built few homes in CA in the 90’s.

3. Read this article - http://www.hcd.ca.gov/HousingNeeds090809.pdf

The gist - CA is still not building enough homes for population growth, and the biggest problem is in lower priced homes (my comment–thus the spike in sales activity once prices crashed)

4. All this should lead to a greater household size, and a lower vacancy rate in CA than the rest of the US (both true–regardless of the exactness of the numbers, with consistent methodology from the Census Bureau, CA has relatively larger households and lower vacancy rates than the vast majority of other states in the US).

 
 
 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 07:24:40

Like many other things, the headlines/press releases proclaim great things, but you realize that everything is built on crap, when you take a peek under the sheets.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 08:27:24

For how many more years going forward will we remain “a year away from a bottom”?

They did not anticipate the government-engineered bounce, but they think it is great that the government is propping up housing prices. Without government intervention, they believe we would have had “free-falling calamity”; hence any and all REIC subsidies to prop up home prices are good?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 08:33:22

They also estimate 10 million homes currently on track to default (as evidenced by missed payments) and the number headed into foreclosure increasing. Their estimate of the shadow inventory is twice as large as the official inventory — i.e., with the shadow inventory added to reported inventory, there would be three times as many homes on the market as we currently see.

Speaking for my local area, there are no — I repeat, no For Sale signs in anyone’s yard in my ‘hood whatsoever. It is like the CAR decided to stop trying to sell anything.

My (ongoing) question:

Is there some kind of collusion which explains why so many homes are being held off market for an indefinite period of time, and if so, is it legal? It seems very anti-competitive, to say the least…

P.S. Was that FPSS laughing at the end of that clip?

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 09:00:46

“Is there some kind of collusion which explains why so many homes are being held off market for an indefinite period of time, and if so, is it legal? It seems very anti-competitive, to say the least…”

I believe there has to be something going on behind closed doors among the banks and the pols. People are not being foreclosed on, and banks are not selling off properties. There are innumerable stories where people have not made payments in years, yet still have not received an NOD, or if they have, still no NOS. Also, there are countless bank owned homes sitting vacant, with no attempt made at marketing to sell. I don’t see how prices can improve until that whole situation is sorted out.

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Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 09:25:44

“Also, there are countless bank owned homes sitting vacant, with no attempt made at marketing to sell. ”

Grizzly… I dunno if the bank owns them or not but I know there are alot of empty used houses out there. My wife was the first to notice it but I brushed it off continually until I made an effort to look. I haven’t a flipping clue where the occupants went to. It’s too weird.

 
Comment by Al
2009-10-14 10:26:27

“I haven’t a flipping clue where the occupants went to. It’s too weird.”

Soylent green?

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-10-14 11:34:52

I really don’t think it’s a conspiracy so much as a combination of 1.) Flippers who are still HOPEing that the appreciation fairy is just napping and 2.) Banks being slow to foreclose, due to lack of personnel and balance sheet issues.

 
 
Comment by Rental Watch
2009-10-14 13:18:53

What we have been seeing are banks selling groups of loans or properties to private investors (at steep discounts). Those investors have been doing a number of things…foreclosing, reworking the loans with occupants who have jobs, etc.

I don’t know if any of the note or bulk REO sales activity has been thrown into the mix with respect to foreclosures “being held off of the market”, but I do know that there are bulk sales that likely do not show up on MLS listing data.

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Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 15:51:26

Some of it is collusion, some of it is the fact that don’t know who really holds the mortgage since it was bundled into a CDO and sold internationally and some of it is the fact that they simply can’t process the foreclosures quickly because they lack the resources.

Basically, it’s FUBAR.

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Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-10-14 07:13:25

$15K tax credit for all!
Where’s my $100K stimulus check?

Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 07:26:40

You’ll get it about the time that unleaded hits $8/gallon.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 07:55:49

Or $800/gallon.

 
 
Comment by SD renter
2009-10-14 07:27:24

Can you imagine if the Ben/Timmy/Ob gang gives a $15,000 tax credit after the $8,000 expires?

What’s keeping them from stopping at 15k when that turns out to be “successful?”

Makes me wants to buy green ink futures for all of the money they continue to print.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-10-14 07:35:14

What’s keeping them from stopping at 15k when that turns out to be “successful?”

1. in 2008 a $7.5K tax credit but you had to pay it back over the next 15 years
2. early 2009 a $8K gift for 1st time suckers
3. late 2009 $15K for all

Is it just me or does anybody else see a pattern develop?

Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 08:03:40

I’m quite pissed about what appears to be another easy path entry into house-debtorship with FHA gauranteeing payment, 8k gimme’s, etc. I’ll scam the system if the effort to reflate continues and expands.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:14:49

The real play seems to be to stop paying taxes.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-10-14 09:22:00

Tax credits and housing…

“Set me free, why don’t cha babe
Get out my life, why don’t cha babe
‘Cause you don’t really love me
You just keep me hangin’ on
You don’t really need me
But you keep me hangin’ on…”

:)

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:07:46

2015 - Free houses? Of course by then a gallon of milk or a loaf of break will cost $50. And forget about wage inflation.

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Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:30:59

Don’t be silly, everyone knows you can’t have price inflation without wage inflation!

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 15:55:29

And there’s the rub, dude. It’s an old oft forgotten rule that the rules can be broken.

Or to put it another way, past performance is NOT ALWAYS an indicator of future performance.

“…of mice and men.”

 
 
Comment by Spokaneman
2009-10-14 09:02:27

My current house downsizing plan is to move to the empty nester in about 5 years. But if the greak Unc offers to gimme $15K toward the purchase of the empty nester, and to give somebody else $15K toward the purchase of my place, how’m I gonna resist that? Well, clearly, I’m not. Of course, all that has been done is to have spent $30K of your money on a transaction that was going to happen anyway.

Crazy, sheer madness, but I wouldn’t look that gift horse in the mouth. Ya take it where ya find it.

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Comment by Shizo
2009-10-14 15:03:38

Hi there Spokaneman! I’m living in Cd’A… Welcome to the HBB. Nice to have a local (to me) on here.

My boss and I were just thinking of ways to “game” the system. We were thinking that we would buy a detriot box for $0, net $15K- buy an insurance policy and *POOF* we get $15K plus a claim!
or;
let the local fire dept use the structure as a burning exercise. They’ll clean the mess up- then we’ll donate the land to the city as future park land.

The above is a joke of course, but my oh my, just think of the ways that this will be abused. The more they raise the stakes the more scams will surface.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 16:53:24

The credit is for 10% of the purchase price up to $80,000, hence the $8k. So, buying $1 houses and banking the $7999 is not an option.

 
 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 08:40:12

They did allow the “cash for clunkers” program to expire.

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-10-14 09:48:13

Yep, my 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee barely escaped. I could have been driving a Honda Fit right now, and my Jeep does clunk.

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Comment by mikey
2009-10-14 11:30:11

My buddy picked up a really nice 2004 Jeep grand Cherokee small V-8 from his late uncles estate with only 31K. The old guy kept it garaged and must have only went to the grocery store and the hospital. Even had a new set of rubber but on before he passed away. All it needed was a reciever ball for a fishing boat.

Just like new, tan, leather, the frigg’in ‘thing is sweet and I hate him because he won’t sell it to me !
:)

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-10-14 10:06:49

For now.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 09:24:13

SD renter,

Then I guess I shouldn’t mention the $3,500 tax deduction they’re thinking about for PET ownership! Yep, lead article;

http://www.katu.com

Thankfully 64% polled oppose.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:35:53

It’s almost like the California legislature has moved to D.C.

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Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 13:36:09

That’e even better that what you get to write off for kids!

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Comment by SD Renter
2009-10-14 14:58:27

Dinor-That’s a new tax deduction for which I would qualify. You know, the dog that the kids begged for and said they would always take of it.

Wifey and I are taking care of the dog and the kids say hello to her every now and then.

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Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:29:43

I’m going to wait for my ‘09 taxes to file my credit on the off chance they retro the ‘09 buyers with the higher amount.

 
 
 
Comment by cereal
2009-10-14 07:13:49

The problem with waiting out this market is fighting boredom. I seem to be on a scooter kick lately. I need a 500cc Piaggio that I can goof around on.

While I’m waiting, of course

 
Comment by Jimbo
2009-10-14 07:14:04

Green shoots everywhere…

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=8824971

Sept. Retail Sales Fall 1.5 Percent Post Clunkers

Retail sales declined in September by the largest amount this year as car sales plummeted following the end of the government’s popular Cash for Clunkers program. But outside of autos, sales were better than expected.

The Commerce Department said Wednesday that retail sales dropped 1.5 percent last month. That’s smaller than the 2.1 percent fall economists had expected, but still the biggest setback since sales dropped 3.2 percent in December.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:05:46

Kind of hard to spend that new monthly car payment at WalMart/Target/Best Buy, etc.

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 07:24:47

Hong Kong apartment sells for whopping $57 million
By JEREMIAH MARQUEZ, AP Business Writer Jeremiah Marquez, Ap Business Writer

HONG KONG – It’s a price tag that would make even New Yorkers and Londoners gasp — an outsized luxury apartment sold for nearly $57 million in Hong Kong Wednesday amid growing fears of a real estate bubble.

The five-bedroom duplex suite with as much as 6,158 square feet was sold to an unidentified buyer from mainland China, said the developer, Henderson Land Development, a major Hong Kong property company. It is believed to be Asia’s most expensive property by square foot at nearly $9,200.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091014/ap_on_re_as/as_hong_kong_expensive_apartment/print

Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 09:27:37

Skip,

Peanuts. Have you heard about the “lost” Da’ Vinci painting suppoooosedly worth $150 mil? Evidently Leonardo used his hands extensively in his painting and one of the fingerprints matches one of his established works.

Given that, I’d say it’s a bargain!

 
Comment by DD
2009-10-14 10:38:26

OMG

 
 
Comment by michael
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 07:45:06

From the linked article:

“Ford Motor Co. on Tuesday reached a deal to alter its contract with the United Auto Workers union that will help Ford keep its costs in line with rivals General Motors Co. and Chrysler LLC. GM and Chrysler already received UNION CONCESSIONS (caps mine) as those two companies dealt with severe financial troubles that forced them to go into bankruptcy protection for a brief period.”

Does that sound like inflation to you?

Comment by 2banana
2009-10-14 07:51:13

When you read the fine print - UNION CONCESSIONS included not ONE cut to base salaries, benefits or pensions.

They got rid of a job bank that paid workers to do nothing.

I LUV the new bankruptcy laws. Your company goes bankrupt but you can’t cut any wages or pensions.

Guess where you end up 2-3 years from now….

Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 08:07:46

http://tinyurl.com/yjkg5cv

“Wall Street On Track To Award Record Pay”

Any other lame attempts at scapegoating hourly workers, please post…. they’re quite entertaining.

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Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 08:48:06

The agreement with the UAW’s leadership includes a no-strike provision, a wage freeze for entry-level workers and work rule changes so employees can do more tasks

A no-strike provision is worth quite a bit of money and keeping the new hire wage at $12/hr is not to shabby either.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 09:36:43

Skip:

THIS is the coming wave in saving money Work rule changes

I guess the old joke Its ” Not my job.. Union rules” will no longer apply in a few years or you will be fired

I guess most of us never worked in a union you had to cover other peoples jobs or shifts, it was expected of you..

hey people get sick…or in TV they cant make it to work in a blizzard so you have to stay.

 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:03:34

Does that sound like inflation to you?

My wife came back from the grocery store (King Soopers/Kroger) in a fit of rage. She said that EVERYTHING is going up in price and not trivially either. We now find ourselves scouring the weekly store ads to see what’s on sale.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:23:58

Groceries are down in my neck of the woods.

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Comment by CincyDad
2009-10-14 09:59:34

Groceries are Up in my neck of the woods. So is kids clothing.

But property taxes are down!

(we’re home to Kroger’s)

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2009-10-14 13:32:00

Groceries up in Syracuse.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-10-14 12:23:14

Groceries are down here also.

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 13:07:50

Down here as I’ve mentioned in the past.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 07:28:19

Oil up better than $1 to go over $75 per barrel. No break in gas prices thus far, and we’re getting close to November. The pig men have succeeded in their price fixing. A rally to more than $100 seems baked into the cake, it’s just a matter of when. I need to unload this V8 before that happens.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 07:59:33

I started carpooling. Take that big oil!

Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 08:02:59

I wish that smart car were a little more affordable…

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:16:24

Read the reviews on that thing. It’s an overpriced POS. You can get better mileage in a Prius, and not feel like you’re riding around in a glorified golf cart.

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Comment by Steve W
2009-10-14 08:34:48

Add me to the choir–friend has the Smart car and hates it. Buy it only if you want to pretend you’re in the movie “Brazil”.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 10:03:36

I LOL whenever I see the one in my nabe go by.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 08:22:53

Actuallly the US spec Smart cars aren’t that great in mpgs. Not much better than your average subcompact.

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Comment by Al
2009-10-14 08:44:41

Weight matters most when accelerating nd on hills.

Drag (aerodynamics) matter when maintaining high speeds.

It’s little surprise the Smart Car does well in the city but isn’t so impressive on the highway.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-10-14 09:33:45

Al,

Excellent point, one I’d never stopped to consider and that’s what makes it surprising! I commuted the same path to work everyday for 15 years. It was frustrating that so many “sandbagged” their way going into the Terwilliger Curves in Portland!

Dude, try to pretend you’ve done this before. It’s-the-same-freaking-hill, every-damn-day! Built up a little momentum will ya’? If you’re going to be “taken by surprise” by an imovable object every day, please get over to the slow lane?

 
Comment by Al
2009-10-14 10:20:17

“It’s-the-same-freaking-hill, every-damn-day!’”

I used to tow a camper with a relatively small vehicle, and learned how to deal with hills. Gather speed on the way down, and bleed it off on the way up.* Trade altitude for speed, and speed for altitude as they say in the aviation world. Slow down on passing lanes and let traffic clear.

* I’d love to see a modified version of cruise control that locks RPMs instead of speed. This would make vehs a lot more fuel efficient, though more annoying to the person behind you.

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 08:39:30

Dave:

Gas prices should not faze anyone. I would gladly pay $6 a gallon to drive my old Plymouth 318 v8 17mpg station wagon i had just gotten a few months back from my parents when i was a pup……when I hit black ice at 65 mph at 2 am… banged up 3 sides of the car and walked away without a scratch, and no airbags either….and it wasn’t totaled!!!

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Comment by bluto
 
Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 12:19:25

The hell with it…I will just ride my bike :)

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 13:42:05

Still want that old car?

That was pretty cool.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 15:50:26

Thanks…. but what it doesn’t show is a collision with a stationary guard rail at that speed…if i had airbags i might have not have been able to see where i was going or jammed on the brakes while going backwards.

I drive a ford escort sw and its small…so i am a very careful driver its paid for and i have safe drivers insurance.

I might be technically much safer in this car but i don’t feel like it.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-14 09:21:06

For its size, smartcar gets crap for mileage, and you only get two seats. My white-bread Corolla gets 28 normal driving (75% city), and 42 on the highway (I clocked it twice at ~67 mph).

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Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 10:16:25

my ‘89 Honda Civic manual trans sedan got 43 highway. Shoulda kept it.

But I repeat myself.

 
 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 08:41:08

I got laid off……..now I burn about a tank of gas/month (compared to 3-4 when I was working)

Take that, you rat-ba$tards…… :)

 
 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 08:44:52

At extra $3 per gallon driving 15,000K the difference between getting 20 MPG and 35 MPG is under $1000 in savings. Not worth it for me to give up my comfortable large sedan in favor of a golf cart.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-10-14 08:55:03

If it comes to gas rationing then the difference is 15000 - 8560 = 6440 miles you can drive with the same amount of fuel.
But of course that can’t happen here…

Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 10:58:49

Then I guess we should all ride bikes just to be safe.

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Comment by Al
2009-10-14 11:07:40

My commuter vehicle is a pedal bike, same as quite a few here.

 
Comment by X-philly
2009-10-14 11:29:16

Well now we all now YOU’RE in shape…

8)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 12:39:08

“The pig men have succeeded in their price fixing. ”

If they are pig men, wouldn’t they always be successful at price fixing?

When oil was at $38 a barrel, don’t you think these “pig men” were being nice to us then? I did not see you praising them for driving down oil to $38.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 07:29:24

For many U.S. wealthy, housing crisis still a squeeze.

ST. CHARLES, Illinois (Reuters) - Despite some signs that the worst of the U.S. residential housing crisis may be over, many wealthy homeowners are still being squeezed by the combination of weak home prices and the stock market crash.

“I think for wealthy homeowners it will get worse before it gets better,” said Dennis Hedlund, founder of iEmergent, a forecaster for mortgage and real estate companies.

“I don’t think home prices have bottomed yet. Many people are stuck at the high end, as there aren’t many buyers out there,” Hedlund said of owners of luxury properties.

From California to Massachusetts, the U.S. housing crisis came after years of easy credit and soaring property values. Towns like the western Chicago suburb of St. Charles saw an unprecedented growth of wealth, especially in high-end homes.

An hour by train from Chicago and known for good schools, St. Charles was a magnet for senior managers and professionals. But as the housing crisis that began in the subprime residential market spread up the property chain, the once-thriving high-end local market ground to a near halt.

“We’ve never seen anything like it,” said Maurine Trafals, office manager at local realty agency Source One. “The market just stopped in the summer.”

St. Charles, population 40,000, now has 74 homes for sale with buyers asking more than $1 million.

“That’s a huge number to have on the market in a community of this size,” Trafals said.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-10-14 08:31:56

What a bunch wankers we have running this show. If the wealthy are even feeling a “squeeze” then everyone should know that the middle/working class is already in a full blown sleeper hold.

St. Charles is a nice town though, but only the old parts down by the River. The new stuff put up on the fringes is just crapshack sprawl.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 08:54:56

It does have its nice parts, but man, housing is expensive there.

I went to a business-related party in a newer St. Charles subdivision c. 2003. Large lots, but not a decent tree in sight. I’d certainly like a mature tree or two for my $1 million+ outlay.

 
Comment by X-philly
2009-10-14 10:35:44

edge-
you do have a way with words…”full blown sleeper hold”, lol

that’s almost as good as the yuppie’s face smashing up against the hard underbelly of the Chicago machine

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-10-14 18:03:10

St. Charles is a nice town though

Woo hoo, I grew up in St. Charles! (yeah, I’m late to the party - had to work all day) The HBB hits home for me, finally.

 
 
Comment by Steve W
2009-10-14 08:44:46

I was just out in St. Charles this weekend. It is a nice small suburb, but it’s nowhere close to an expressway and as the article states, at least an hour train ride to downtown. I can’t imagine the people making 500K/year are working close to home, so their lives are likely a commuting Gehenna.

In fact, it’s really not close to anything except Iowa.

Actually, I can’t imagine there’s that many people making 500K living out there anyway. Those million dollar homes will never sell again for prices like that.

The subdivision they’re talking about in the article is ridiculous. Why, why, why would you spend a million bucks+ on a home and then live 15 feet next to your neighbor?

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 07:37:58

“Let us call to all the people for thrift and economy, for denial and sacrifice if need be, for a nationwide drive against extravagance and luxury, to a recommittal to simplicity of living, to that prudent and normal plan of life which is the health of the republic. There hasn’t been a recovery from the waste and abnormalities of war since the story of mankind was first written, except through work and saving, through industry and denial, while needless spending and heedless extravagance have marked every decay in the history of nations.”

~Pres. Harding, 1920

Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 07:41:57

< 1920? What was going on in 1920 that prompted the president to issue this statement?

A full-blown economic depression had landed on the U.S. door-step, and instead of cranking up the money printing press Warren Harding cut government spending, lowered taxes, and let the depression weed out the waste.

By the late summer of 1921, signs of recovery were already visible. The following year, unemployment was back down to 6.7 percent (from 12 percent) and was only 2.4 percent by 1923.

Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 08:08:57

That was great wmbz…Thanks…

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 08:50:08

Is this a return of the “Warren G. Harding was a misunderstood genius” revisionism?

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:46:50

No, it’s “too bad Harding died” The great depression might not have happened.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 11:57:55

I’ll bet good ol’ Harding would’ve stopped WWII from happening, too.

(Dims lights, puts on “Rust Never Sleeps,” and fires up the Zippo in honor of Warren G., The Greatest Man That History Calls A Cretin.)

 
Comment by dude
2009-10-14 12:37:55

Well, now that you brought it up…
Wasn’t the Nazi regime a product of the depression in a way?

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 17:36:20

Wasn’t the Nazi regime a product of the depression in a way?

Yes, I think that’s a fair statement.

Maybe Warren G. shoulda run for office in the Weimar Republic?

 
 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 11:53:04

Is this a return of the “Warren G. Harding was a misunderstood genius” revisionism?

He did the right thing at a time of economic crisis. The “genius” label is nothing but a strawman.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 12:19:47

He was an incompetent moron not fit to run Palookaville’s dog pound.

He did the right thing at a time of economic crisis.

If you’re such a big fan of Harding, perhaps you can tell us what impact the protectionist Fordney-McCumber Tariff had, and why such an enlightened economic mastermind would engage in such contradictory regulatory policy. Are you a fan of protectionism?

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 12:28:48

… what impact the protectionist Fordney-McCumber Tariff had …

I didn’t mean impact on the Depression of 1920-1921, by the way, as it was signed in ‘22, I meant post-Harding impact.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 14:29:45

If you’re criticizing Harding based on tariffs, I have no argument. But his rap as the worst President ever is certainly undeserved. I would put him at the 30-40th percentile, possibly higher.

I don’t see why you’re so touchy about the idea that the verdict of a few mainstream historians might have to be reconsidered. As I’ve said before, I suspect that the real reason for their antipathy towards Harding is that he was one of the few Repubs who clearly articulated a laissez-faire policy (even if he might not have been 100% consistent in practice). They play up the verbal eccentricities and scandals in his cabinet, and ignore the positives.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 15:16:46

I don’t see why you’re so touchy about the idea that the verdict of a few mainstream historians might have to be reconsidered.

Laugh.

I think it’s more than “a few mainstream historians” who regard Harding as a failure. I’m not touchy about it — more bemused by an effort to recast a hero out of a lump of clay. (Did some Harding-related memo go out to Austrian School fanboys and laissez-faire true believers? Seriously.) I’m also not sure how “clearly articulated” his laissez-faire policy was — it seems poorly articulated and filled with contradictions to me — but I’m no Harding historian, either.

 
Comment by dude
2009-10-14 19:37:44

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Harding was hero. Sometimes a corrupt bumbling fool is exactly what the country needs to get it through hard times…

Wait, did I just Endorse Pres. Obama?

 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-14 09:23:42

let the depression weed out the waste

Well that’s mighty fine of you.

 
Comment by packman
2009-10-14 09:39:11

A full-blown economic depression had landed on the U.S. door-step, and instead of cranking up the money printing press Warren Harding cut government spending, lowered taxes, and let the depression weed out the waste.

FWIW however - in 1920 we were still very much ramping down spending, and taxes, related to WW1. So I wonder how much of that government spending cut was just a continuation of that vs. cutting of other things. The government didn’t have entitlement programs then for instance.

Comment by packman
2009-10-14 10:03:45

P.S. That being said - it is indeed very noteworthy how quickly we exited that fairly deep recession without Keynesian stimulus.

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Comment by laurel, md
2009-10-14 16:01:32

In the early 20’s there was hardly any fed gov spending (not even SS) to cut. Fed taxes were low too. Cutting taxes and reducing spending were just talking/campaign points.

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 07:51:08

VI. HARDING AND THE SCANDALS

Beyond the limited scope of his political
experience he was “almost unbelievably ill-informed,” as William
Allen White put it. His mind was vague and fuzzy. Its quality was
revealed in the clogged style of his public addresses, in his
choice of turgid and maladroit language (”noninvolvement” in
European affairs, “adhesion” to a treaty), and in his frequent
attacks of suffix trouble (”normalcy” for normality, “betrothment”
for betrothal). It was revealed even more clearly in his
helplessness when confronted by questions of policy to which mere
good nature could not find the answer. White tells of Harding’s
coming into the office of one of his secretaries after a day of
listening to his advisers wrangling over a tax problem, and crying
out: “John, I can’t make a damn thing out of this tax problem. I
listen to one side and they seem right, and then–God!–I talk to
the other side and they seem just as right, and here I am where I
started. I know somewhere there is a book that will give me the
truth, but, hell, I couldn’t read the book. I know somewhere there
is an economist who knows the truth, but I don’t know where to find
him and haven’t the sense to know him and trust him when I find
him. God! What a job!” His inability to discover for himself the
essential facts of a problem and to think it through made him
utterly dependent upon subordinates and friends whose mental
processes were sharper than his own.

–Only Yesterday: An Informal History of the 1920’s (1931) Frederick Lewis Allen

Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 08:17:16

I’ll take the primary source rather than the secondary, thank you.

Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 09:09:58

There is no way Harding wrote that statement or even understood what it meant.

It was most likely written by Harding’s manager Harry Daugherty or one of the other Republican bosses of that era.

In Gladwell’s book “Blink”, he claims Harding was elected because he looked very presidential and gave such a great first impression that you tended to over look how stupid he was. Gladwell calls the flawed process by which people make decisions the “‘Warren Harding Error’”.

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Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:48:20

Reaganesque?

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 11:49:11

There is no way Harding wrote that statement or even understood what it meant.

It was most likely written by Harding’s manager Harry Daugherty or one of the other Republican bosses of that era.

Oh, I forgot. Every time a Republican says something intelligent or a Democrat says something stupid, credit/blame gets assigned to the speechwriter. When it’s the other way around, of course, it’s just the natural order of things.

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 13:28:40

I knew an old retired officer who was of age back then. Yeah he said Harding’s looks were a big deal, like a matinee idol or something. People from his era put a lot of store by a guy’s looks and line of BS, even moreso than today IMO.

 
 
 
Comment by X-GSfixr
2009-10-14 08:50:58

“….. His mind was vague and fuzzy…….frequent attacks of suffix trouble…..”

sounds like a blast from the not-too-distant past.

Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 11:33:38

And although Harding’s official cause of death was eating bad crab, there were rumors that his wife found out about his mistress and daughter and poisoned him.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 12:04:45

Funny how no one mentions FDR’s mistresses (and how did he die of just a headache, anyway?), yet he gets lauded as a hero for presiding over a 12-year depression.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 08:01:22

““Let us call to all the people for thrift and economy, for denial and sacrifice if need be, for a nationwide drive against extravagance and luxury,[...]”

Note that instead, we got the roaring ’20s, and an amazing bout of credit-driven speculation.

Comment by Al
2009-10-14 08:19:10

And now the message is “spend, spend, spend” and people stop spending (finally). Seems like proof it doesn’t matter what we’re told to do. We’ll spend when we can, and won’t when we can’t. Go figure.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 08:22:41

“Note that instead, we got the roaring ’20s, and an amazing bout of credit-driven speculation”.

After the correction, when damn near everyone had a job, so they went out and spent. That will always occur with low unemployment and people feeling good about their futures.

The simple point is, the needed waste was flushed from the system in short order, unlike the insanity of trying to keep the party going by constant pumping and propping up of failed and failing entities.

Let those that should fail… fail.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-10-14 08:43:34

That was taxmeupthebooty’s favorite bedtime story too!

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 08:35:37

Note that instead, we got the roaring ’20s, and an amazing bout of credit-driven speculation.

I take it you would have preferred to get GD I over with a decade earlier?

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 08:53:59

Impossible; GD I was _dependent_ on having all of that credit-driven speculation embedded in the system, so that it could be wrung out by the depression.

Without the credit-drive speculation, we would not have needed to have GD I.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-10-14 11:44:48

So a 10-year depression is inevitable, regardless of government policy, whenever there’s been a period of easy credit? What caused the depression of 1920-21?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 07:44:30

NY Post - 10-13-09

Ben Bernanke’s dollar crisis went into a wider mode yesterday as the greenback was shockingly upstaged by the euro and yen, both of which can lay claim to the world title as the currency favored by central banks as their reserve currency.

Over the last three months, banks put 63 percent of their new cash into euros and yen — not the greenbacks — a nearly complete reversal of the dollar’s onetime dominance for reserves, according to Barclays Capital. The dollar’s share of new cash in the central banks was down to 37 percent — compared with two-thirds a decade ago.

Currently, dollars account for about 62 percent of the currency reserve at central banks — the lowest on record, said the International Monetary Fund.

Bernanke could go down in economic history as the man who killed the greenback on the operating table.

After printing up trillions of new dollars and new bonds to stimulate the US economy, the Federal Reserve chief is now boxed into a corner battling two separate monsters that could devour the economy — ravenous inflation on one hand, and a perilous recession on the other.

“He’s in a crisis worse than the meltdown ever was,” said Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital. “I fear that he could be the Fed chairman who brought down the whole thing.”

Comment by WT Economist
2009-10-14 09:13:32

“The Federal Reserve chief is now boxed into a corner battling two separate monsters that could devour the economy — ravenous inflation on one hand, and a perilous recession on the other.”

That’s about it. I predict the Fed will at least try to choose inflation and the loss of the dollar as a reserve currency. It’s something the generations in charge can sell to go on living in the manner to which they have been accustomed.

Next up: selling little girls to the Chinese, where there will be a shortage of marriagable women (we’re not the only ones with problems), to fund senior citizen benefits.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 07:55:56

Going Green…

Wood making comeback as power source.
One of the world’s oldest energy sources is making a comeback.

Across the USA, power plants are turning to wood to make electricity. The move is spurred by state mandates to encourage renewable power and by bills moving through Congress that require more renewable electricity nationwide.

Wood power’s rise is “meteoric,” says William Perritt, editor of Wood Biomass Market Report. One wood-burning plant started up in 2007, seven in 2008 and a dozen in 2009, he says.

Dozens more are on the drawing board. That includes three 100-megawatt plants, scheduled to start in 2012 that together would crank out enough juice to power up to 270,000 homes.

In 2008, wood-burning power plants were capable of generating roughly 6,700 megawatts or enough to provide power to about 6 million homes, according to the Energy Department. That includes, however, plants that supply power to wood-products factories that use waste wood to generate electricity.

Many plants now burn bark, twigs and other waste wood. If wood power grows as expected, whole trees will have to be cut down to fuel the plants, says Pete Stewart of Forest2Market, a forest-industry analysis firm.

Plants have promised to use waste wood, but “as soon as they get their permit and see how much it’s going to cost to do that, they change their tune,” he says. Stewart says it is generally more expensive to build a wood-burning plant than one powered by coal or natural gas.

Some environmentalists fear that the rise of wood power could devastate forests.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 07:57:37

And this is better than burning coal?

Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 08:15:46

Not to my way of thinking.

 
Comment by Cassandra
2009-10-14 13:31:54

It’s cleaner than coal - fewer heavy metals. And if you buy into the greenhouse gases argument (I don’t), it is carbon neutral if the forests are sustainably harvested. This is especially true if the plants are burning waste wood. Hell, the Forest Service burns enough wood here in prescribed burns to generate enough power for every house around.

 
 
Comment by Rancher
2009-10-14 08:05:22

My county is going to install a bio-mass generating
station which, at first, sounds great since we’re surrounded by BLM and NF land. The projected
recovery is a 60 mile diameter circle utilizing 200
tons of material a day.

The only thing the county didn’t count on was rising
fuel costs which will force the utility to raise rates
far above coal/hydro/NG generating rates.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 08:10:13

Wood making a come back???? With retail fuel oil at $2.10/gal?….

Welcome to the world of stupidity.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 08:21:27

You’re obviously paying MUCH less for heating oil than we are out west. That said, the idea that we are going back to burning wood at power plants is laughable. Not only would this devastate forests, and drive up prices for lumber, but it’s absolutely filthy for the environment. Apparently, we’ve learned nothing as a society.

Comment by exeter
2009-10-14 08:35:51

It can’t be that much less. Retail diesel is $2.70/gal in metro NY.

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Comment by cobaltblue
2009-10-14 09:35:06

Paper is the highest form of wood, so burning Federal Reserve Notes ($$$) is obviously the way to go GREEN, baby!

This concept was first field tested by the Weimar Republic with great success. Now, we are at least as smart as 1920’s Germans.

Everybody knows money is a renewable resource, so let’s put our money where our mouth is when we just say “no” to imported fuels.

Fire up the Benjamins, America!

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Comment by lavi d
2009-10-14 13:08:42

Wood making comeback as power source.

“With my wood-burning space-plane, I will ascend to the heavens, there to put paid to the moon-demons and their nefarious plans.”

Dr. Morris T. Hepenbunker, III

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:14:03

:lol: Excellent!

 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:17:26

So we cracked the atom 60 years ago, put men on the moon 40 years ago and now we’re seriously using wood for power plants?

Idiocracy.

Comment by Carl Morris
2009-10-15 10:04:22

It’s what trees crave.

 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 07:57:24

Mr. Cole has a cold, (Hwy’s been on pins and needles about H1N1,) so I run across this excellent article in the Atlantic, …now really, how many people knew about this Cheney-Shrub connection?

“…The U.S. first began stockpiling Tamiflu and Relenza back in 2005, in the wake of concern that an outbreak in Southeast Asia of bird flu, a far more deadly form of the disease, might go global. On November 1, 2005, President George W.Bush pronounced pandemic flu a “danger to our homeland,” and he asked Congress to approve legislation that included $1billion for the production and stockpiling of antivirals. This was after Congress had already approved $1.8billion to stockpile Tamiflu for the military, a decision that was made during the tenure of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. (Before joining the Bush Cabinet, Rumsfeld was chairman for four years of Gilead Sciences, the company that holds the patent on Tamiflu, and he held millions of dollars’ worth of stock in the company. According to Roll Call, an online newspaper covering events on Capitol Hill, Rumsfeld says he recused himself from all government decisions involving Tamiflu. Gilead’s stock price rose more than 50 percent in 2005, when the government’s plan was announced.)”

“As with vaccines, the scientific evidence for Tamiflu and Relenza is thin at best. In its general-information section, the CDC’s Web site tells readers that antiviral drugs can “make you feel better faster.” True, but not by much. On average, Tamiflu (which accounts for 85 to 90 percent of the flu antiviral-drug market) cuts the duration of flu symptoms by 24hours in otherwise healthy people. In exchange for a slightly shorter bout of illness, as many as one in five people taking Tamiflu will experience nausea and vomiting. About one in five children will have neuropsychiatric side effects, possibly including anxiety and suicidal behavior”

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1/3

Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-10-14 09:05:45

Wow Hwy 50 . I didn’t get a chance to get a shot yet ,but I came down with something 2 days ago ,and I feel sicker than a dog . The thought occurred to me that I could die in here and nobody would know I was gone .

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-10-14 09:28:00

Got my shot yesterday at Target for $24, 3 hr wait. No H1N1 available yet.

Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 11:36:47

Gotta luv that free market.

Imagine if the government was in charge of flu vaccines.

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Comment by polly
2009-10-14 12:35:36

I got my flu shot at the OPM building. Free. Waited about 5 minutes after I arrived at the health center. Had to show ID. I didn’t go on the day assigned to the first letter of my last name, but no one cared.

They will notify us by e-mail with another schedule when the H1N1 shot is available.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 13:15:38

There an Other People’s Money building?! :-)

 
Comment by In Montana
2009-10-14 13:30:34

I heard there used to be a lot more companies making vaccines 20 years ago. I wonder what happened.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 13:43:04

It isn’t much of a profit maker. Getting the eggs is a pain. People tend not to get the vaccine when reports indicate the flu season is mild or that the vaccine strains don’t match well with the ones circulating. Weirdos make false claims about the vaccines making you sick, giving you mercury poisoning, etc.

 
Comment by laurel, md
2009-10-14 16:28:32

“Imagine if the government was in charge of flu vaccines”

It is in charge, indirecty. Sort of like big US defense contractors with 95% of their business with the US Gov. The actual physical work is done by “private” companies. But the risk and demand (for the most part) is assumed by the US Gov. Research and development, for both military and vaccines (again for the most part) are covered directly/indirectly by the US Gov.

 
 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:00:39

“The thought occurred to me that I could die in here and nobody would know I was gone.”

One of the unfortunate things about living alone. I’ve often thought of that myself, and my biggest worry is that my dog runs out of food and water before someone finds me, and he dies of starvation.

Comment by Carl Morris
2009-10-14 10:36:15

I don’t think he’ll starve for a long time :-).

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:51:12

He’d never eat me! This guy is hopelessly dedicated to me. Apparently, he cries in agony when I leave him. I never knew it, because I was obviously never around to witness it. I only found out when family was visiting. He wailed away when I left them in the car with him to run into the grocery store. And, when I left home to get us some coffee and snacks, he sat by the window the whole time. Made me love him that much more. He’d curl up by my dead body, and perish himself. This is all in stark contrast to Oly’s cats, who’d be feasting upon her still warm corpse.

 
Comment by DD
2009-10-14 10:55:32

LOL, growllllllll

 
Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 11:42:01

My brother in law is a mortician. You never want to die with cats.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 12:03:48

I asked an EMT once what was one of the more disturbing thing he had seen, in his 20 years on the job.

He said a dead elderly lady in bed with her lips, ears, nose and under arms eaten off, done by a small dog. A chihuahua.

 
Comment by X-philly
2009-10-14 12:12:08

oh snap

 
Comment by lavi d
2009-10-14 13:35:34

He said a dead elderly lady in bed with her lips, ears, nose and under arms eaten off, done by a small dog. A chihuahua.

She was a winner that became a dog’s dinner

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-10-14 10:46:30

Right, I worry about my dog also .

I was wondering if you already got something ,you really can’t take the shot at that point ,right ? Going back to bed ,getting weak again .

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Comment by Rancher
2009-10-14 12:44:04

Why would he die of starvation?

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Comment by packman
2009-10-14 10:44:06

Wow Hwy 50 . I didn’t get a chance to get a shot yet ,but I came down with something 2 days ago ,and I feel sicker than a dog . The thought occurred to me that I could die in here and nobody would know I was gone .

Pretty sure something like that happened to aladinsane and txchick57, and probably a couple of other folks on here. We haven’t heard from them in a while.

We thought that was combotechie’s fate as well, but he apparently managed to pull through.

:-)

(P.S. hope you get better!)

 
 
Comment by DD
2009-10-14 10:52:32

how many people knew about this Cheney-Shrub connection?

“…The U.S. first began stockpiling Tamiflu and Relenza back in 2005

I DID. But we still had way to many pro w/dick dilusional ‘fans’ that didn’t take any of the unethical connections to heart.

 
 
Comment by chilidoggg
2009-10-14 08:05:21

I noticed something new today. One of my checking accounts is with a brokerage firm, and they require that I link a trading account with the banking account. So today when I’m moving money from the checking to the trading account, at the screen where they ask for confirmation, they’ve added a warning: “Please be advised that you are about to transfer funds into an account that is not FDIC insured.” And they display the warning again after the request is confirmed. I maintain minimal deposits in this account anyway but, sheesh, you gotta bust your but to keep up with these crooks.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:21:11

And that’s how the game is played.

 
 
Comment by whino
2009-10-14 08:19:06

Would this be considered deflation?? :-D

Colorado minimum wage to drop as living costs fall

DENVER — Colorado will become the first state to reduce its minimum wage because of a falling cost of living.

The state Department of Labor and Employment ordered the wage down to $7.24 from $7.28. That’s lower than the federal minimum wage of $7.25, so most minimum wage workers would lose only 3 cents an hour.

Colorado’s provision allows wage declines, the minimum wage will drop because of a falling consumer price index. It will be the first decrease in any state since the federal minimum wage law was passed in 1938.

Other states with minimum wages that rise with inflation are Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont and Washington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/13/AR2009101301422.html

Comment by Spokaneman
2009-10-14 09:06:01

In WA we just raised our MW to $8.75/hour. Yes $8.75. Its considered the Idaho/Oregon right to work act.

 
Comment by packman
2009-10-14 10:01:48

Keep in mind that while CPI is technically down year-over-year - the reason for this is last year’s huge oil price spike also resulted in a general price bubble during the summer. CPI was rising at a 10% pace last spring, and then plummeted in the fall along with oil prices. CPI however has continued its rise again since December.

Month .. CPI
1/2008 211.08
2/2008 211.693
3/2008 213.528
4/2008 214.823
5/2008 216.632
6/2008 218.815
7/2008 219.964
8/2008 219.086
9/2008 218.783
10/2008 216.573
11/2008 212.425
12/2008 210.228
1/2009 211.143
2/2009 212.193
3/2009 212.709
4/2009 213.24
5/2009 213.856
6/2009 215.693
7/2009 215.351
8/2009 215.834

 
 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 08:38:07

Told you so.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) — Congress is considering proposals to greatly expand a soon-to-expire $8,000 tax credit for first-time homebuyers — potentially applying it to all but the wealthiest homebuyers. Beyond extending that deadline, some lawmakers want to make the credit available to all homebuyers who meet income eligibility requirements. And some want to increase the amount of the credit from $8,000 to $15,000.

Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 08:50:10

This is not surprise, anyone with an IQ more than their shoe size knew the props would keep right on coming. Just one of many attempts to repeal gravity. If they increase it to $15,000 for anyone buying a house, sales will jump up. Don’t forget, the proposals do not include lending to those will poor credit scores. Which made up better than 20% in the recent frenzy.

So don’t expect anything more than a swift kick of the can, this will “fix” nothing. The market will however at some point,”fix it”. Gubmint be damned.

Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 09:05:23

Then if it wasn’t a surprise why was everyone here discounting the recent increase in sales and prices as nothing more than a reponse to the credit? This credit will be extended over and over. You might as well call it the govt gift for buying a house.

People responded to the $8K. The credit will be increased to $15K. And the limit on 1st time buyers will be removed. More people will respond to that incentive as well. It won’t fix everything, but it will mean more sales and higher prices for next year which will be dismissed here as somehow not real.

This particular proposal doesn’t mention lending to poor credit. That’s already taken care of by FHA loans. You need 3% down (which the $15K credit will cover for most people) and a pulse will pretty much guarantee an FHA loan. So what the $15K does is essentially allow $0 down purchases by anyone.

Comment by CrackerJIm
2009-10-14 09:36:25

You seem happy with your conclusions. More sales and higher prices due to government intervention is not in the country’s best interest and will be short lived. The only thing that will live on is the harrowing debt load we are placing on future generations.

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:20:52

Shills only care about their own bottom line. If you’re looking for some good swampland, or an amazing deal on some snake oil, Eddie’s got you covered.

 
Comment by X-philly
2009-10-14 10:44:17

More sales and higher prices due to

Higher prices YoY not to be seen in my area. The trendline is headed southward…

and the 8k credit must have been used by the mid-range buyers because the prices on (under $200k) are currently circling the drain.

don’t turn any cartwheels yet, Eddie.

 
Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 11:02:32

I oppose all govt credits, be they for houses, “green” cars, cash for clunkers, you name it. But just because I oppose it doesn’t mean I will ignore it and pretend it doesn’t affect sales and prices of real estate.

 
 
Comment by Al
2009-10-14 10:10:08

These tax credits are like caffeine. It creates a jolt (extra sales) but wears off quickly. Unless you continue using it. But if you continue using, it also gradually loses its effectiveness (sales sink) unless you up the dose (say to $15K.) Simply extending the credit won’t maintain sales; they’ll slump unless the credit continues growing. Shall we keep using until we get addicted and crash hard Eddie?

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Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 10:27:25

The tax credits, as you mentioned, are like a dangerous drug. At first, the results are on high, but over time, more and more of the stimulus is needed to produce ever diminishing returns. At long last, the stimulus produces no high, but is needed just to maintain a state of normalcy. Without it, the patient dies. At long last, the patient dies anyway, as the body has become diseased from the years of abuse.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 11:34:56

I like to think of the credits as the rebates offered by the former big 3 automakers. It got to the point where sales would tank if no major rebates were offered (and this was during the “good” years). Buyers learned that all they had to do was wait and the discounts would soon reappear.

 
Comment by Al
2009-10-14 11:35:44

And in this case, the dealer is killing itself too.

 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-10-14 10:45:29

I believe it was Oxide who coined the phrase “talking point parrot” That was a good call.

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Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 10:51:51

“This credit will be extended over and over. You might as well call it the govt gift for buying a house”.

I think you labor under the delusion that the government can cure all ills. The housing market is not going back to 2005 no matter what they do. If they could create never ending price stabilization and increases then why don’t they? Simple, can’t be done for any sustainable length of time, watch and see.

As for the FHA forever giving loans to those with poor credit, check out their current situation… Not to good. The “good old days” of the housing bubble market are over…Kaput! Depending on your age, you may never live to see one like it again.

If you believe that gubmint can recreate it then by all means invest accordingly, a person of their convictions would do so.

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Comment by Eddie
2009-10-14 11:12:45

You guys crack me up. When have I said I am in favor of this credit? Same for the FHA loans.

But it is happening whether I like it or not. The govt has made it quite clear it will do whatever it takes to keep people buying houses. $8K for 1st time buyers was the start. It will be $15K and open to everyone next month. Wouldn’t surprise me to see it go to $30K next year.

And FHA will lend to anyone who wants to borrow, good credit, bad credit, no credit. And when those people default, the govt will bail them out. And then start the process all over again with a $50K tax credit.

What actions taken by the govt in the past year would lead you to believe the opposite will happen? There has been no govt action whatsoever to discourage home buying. You’re dreaming if you think it’s about to change.

The housing market is back to 2005 in some areas. Bidding wars are happening. I can’t remember who it was here that said he/she was priced out of 5 houses he/she bid on in Phoenix which ended up selling for more than asking.

Keep pretending it’s not happening if you want.

 
 
 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-10-14 09:59:16

Tell me which Congresscritters are proposing the expansion. Methinks they will be the same as the ones who still think tax credits create jobs (they do create jobs…in the Caymen Islands.)

“Considering” does not mean “pass.”
“Proposal” does not mean “pass.”

I suspect there will be an extension of the current $8K, but, to expand the credit to rich speculators for $15K? In other words, reinflate the housing bubble, this time with Fannie and Freddie as the greatest fools? You forget that the new President is smarter than the previous one.

You can say “I told you so” after something is passed by Congress and signed by Obama.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:56:31

“the new President is smarter than the previous one”

You have any evidence of that?

Comment by DD
2009-10-14 11:04:29

open your eyes and listen with your ears.

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Comment by dude
2009-10-14 11:33:59

Very convincing, I can now see the light.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 11:37:02

If he were smarter, he would have done a 180 from Bush’s insane monetary policies. He did not, he accelerated them!

No surprise, he and his handlers are in way over their heads. Now that he’s in the big boy chair the view is completely different.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-10-14 11:36:27

“Smart” is nice in a president, but should be fairly low on the list of qualifications, IMO. “Principled” and “Uncorrupted” should be much higher. And there are varying degrees of all three.

Not attempting to speak specifically about present or past administrations - just making a general statement.

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Comment by dude
2009-10-14 13:06:50

+1

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Rancher
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-10-14 09:45:13

“Obama thinks of number between one and ten, wins Nobel Prize for Mathematics”

Another headline from Tomorrowland

Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-10-14 09:57:34

He wins, for not being Bush.

Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 13:40:52

He wins for being the opposite of Bush…

 
 
Comment by rob rothley
2009-10-14 10:26:03

The Balloonist

A woman in a hot air balloon realized she was lost. She lowered her altitude and spotted a man in a boat below. She shouted to him, “Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don’t know where I am.”
The man consulted his portable GPS and replied, “You’re in a hot air balloon, approximately 30 feet above a ground elevation of 2,346 feet above sea level.. You are at 31 degrees, 14.97 minutes north latitude and 100 degrees, 49.09 minutes west longitude.
“She rolled her eyes and said, “You must be a Republican.”

“I am,” replied the man. “How did you know?”

“Well,” answered the balloonist, “everything you told me is technically correct. But I have no idea what to do with your information, and I’m still lost. Frankly, you’ve not been much help to me.”

The man smiled and responded, “You must be an Obama Democrat.”

“I am,” replied the balloonist. “How did you know?”

“Well,” said the man, “you don’t know where you are or where you are going. You’ve risen to where you are, due to a large quantity of hot air. You made a promise you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. You’re in exactly the same position you were in before we met, but somehow, now it’s my fault.”

Comment by In Colorado
2009-10-14 11:37:52

Like the previous administration knew what they where doing?

 
Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 12:56:55

I liked it better when it was a Microsoft joke.

Comment by FB wants a do over
2009-10-14 14:12:44

Agreed - I believe it was manager versus worker bee. Someone got creative and threw politics into this version.

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Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 13:44:07

8 months of effort cannot cure 8 years of recklessness…

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 16:20:54

+1 :-)

(Hwy inserts Neil Young’s: “Living with War”)

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Comment by polly
2009-10-14 12:41:22

There is no Nobel Prize in Mathematics. Mr. Nobel didn’t like math, so he excluded it.

If you are going to make dumb jokes, you should at least fact check them.

Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 12:59:08

Interestingly enough, Nobel didn’t like economics either and exclude economics as well

However there is a Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic given out ever year.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-10-14 13:35:20

If everyone had fact checked ObamaNation before they voted we wouldn’t have these jokes in the first place.

Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 13:47:19

If everyone had fact checked ObamaNation ??

Did not need to…Fact checked a 72 year old man with a loony bird as a running mate so if nothing else it was a vote by default…

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Comment by CentralCoastDude
2009-10-14 17:25:44

If everyone had fact checked ObamaNation ??

Did not need to…Fact checked a 72 year old man with a loony bird as a running mate so if nothing else it was a vote by default…

SWEEEET!!!

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-10-14 19:26:28

Well, I would hope you would include all the fact checking that went in to electing Bush not just once but twice.

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Comment by DD
2009-10-14 19:32:11

Bravo, nailed it.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-10-14 10:07:08

Walking away a fair thing to do, says MSNBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33295860/ns/business-the_big_money/

“The aim of these critics is to shame debtors into sticking with their mortgages. That’s something debtors should take with a grain of salt. There are many good reasons to keep paying your mortgage and avoid the black mark of foreclosure, but the immorality of sticking the bank with a loss isn’t one of them.”

After all, the banks stick you with the fine print of their credit card bills, don’t they? The democratization of “business ethics.”

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:30:11

I’ve often said it was only a matter of time. (not here as I’m new here)

You can’t eat the seed corn. You can’t kill the golden goose. You don’t poop where you eat. In short, being greedy, shortsighted and selfish may not be against the law, but nature has it’s own laws and J6P may not be real bright, but he/she sure as hell understands “good for the goose, good for the gander.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:20:49

“There are many good reasons to keep paying your mortgage and avoid the black mark of foreclosure, but the immorality of sticking the bank with a loss isn’t one of them.”

Cue in JoeyinCA for a sermon on the immorality of sticking the bank with a loss…

 
 
Comment by dude
2009-10-14 10:09:24

I heard today from my accountant that the IRS has a 22 weeks backlog on the $8K credit. Anyone else heard this?

Comment by Kim
2009-10-14 10:33:12

I wouldn’t doubt it. They had an issue with our 2008 taxes that would have been settled in less than a minute had anyone bothered to peek at our W-2s. I had to write about five or six letters and just this week we got a letter closing the matter (in our favor). Bottom line is they are really, really, really behind.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-10-14 11:03:51

If anything, their workload has been greatly increased by their recent admissions of looking into all of the mortgage interest statements they’ve received from banks to verify that homedebtors are paying their appropriate taxes.

 
Comment by polly
2009-10-14 14:01:56

Make sure to use faxes when you can. A few months after the anthrax scares someone at the IRS told me that letters sometimes disitgrate after being irradiated.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 15:50:56

That right there is an important bit of info Polly.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-10-14 10:51:41

If true, that’s hilarious because it sure sounds like a lot of the FBs have spent the money half a year before they even see it.

And it sure sounds like that $8k isn’t getting people into houses so much as it is getting new couches, flat screen TVs, and recliners into houses.

Comment by RI renter
2009-10-14 13:43:52

The people I know who took the 8k credit were using it as part of a down payment (usually involving a temporary 401k loan, or some other such).

Seller paying closing costs is also hugely popular these days among people I have observed buying.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 13:50:31

IRS has a 22 weeks backlog on the $8K credit ??

Along with the normal IRS duties…Who in the hell thinks that even 1% of the people who HELOC and walked away are going to have to pay one dime…

Comment by JLR
2009-10-15 05:13:44

We got the $8k. Took 7-8 weeks …

Not sure if that’s changed … we bought in May and filed paperwork in July

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 10:56:28

Jim Rogers: The Next 10 Years
Written by Heather Bell - 10- 09-2009 (excerpt)

I just wanted to offer some highlights from his speech at ETF Securities’ mini-conference.

1. The 21st century belongs to China

According to Rogers, the 19th century was the era of the British Empire and the 20th century was the U.S.’ heyday. But the 21st century is China’s (though the rest of Asia is definitely going to get a boost too).

The reasons for this are many, but some points brought up by Rogers include the following:

1. The Chinese want to live like we do;
2. They are more eager to work;
3. They are better at saving;
4. There are 1.5 billion Chinese citizens (and 3 billion people in all of Asia), and we owe them money. They are, according to Rogers, “among the best capitalists in the world.”

There will be some setbacks, of course, Rogers says, but these are opportunities. “If you see setbacks in China, you should pick up the phone and get more involved,” he advised, before adding his favorite refrain, “The best advice of any kind that I can give you is to teach your children and grandchildren Chinese.”

China’s path to world domination started with Deng Xiaoping’s capitalist programs in 1978, and there hasn’t been any looking back since. Rogers views China’s dominance as nigh-on unstoppable except for one little thing: its water problem. There are parts of the country that are running out of water, and when the water disappears, Rogers points out, so does civilization. However, the country is acting aggressively to combat the problem, and he doesn’t view it as that much of a threat.

2a. Jim Rogers is not a Ben Bernanke fan

Yep, it’s a fact. No “Team Bernanke” shirts for Jim Rogers (who said to scattered applause during the Q&A session that if he was in charge of the U.S. economy he would “abolish the Fed and resign.”).

Rogers is appalled by the government’s actions—Bernanke’s in particular. The U.S. government’s strategy calls for the debasement of the dollar, he says, calling it a “horrible policy.” While he concedes it can work in the short term, it NEVER works in the mid- or long term.

“He’s going to run those printing presses until we run out of trees, because that’s the only thing he knows,” Rogers said of Bernanke.

Add that on top of the country’s rapidly growing astronomical debt, and Rogers believes you’ve got a recipe for disaster.

2b. The U.S. dollar is screwed

Consider this a corollary to point 2a. Its status as a reserve currency is teetering on a precipice, in Rogers’ opinion, and he’s not alone. In fact, so many people are selling dollars right now that he’s sitting tight, waiting for a possible—and ultimately unsustainable—rally in order to exit the market.

Comment by bink
2009-10-14 11:50:02

Didn’t we hear this about Japan not too long ago?

 
Comment by Sagesse
2009-10-14 12:00:44

They bought a million new cars in September.

Comment by scdave
2009-10-14 13:55:26

I saw that to…Thats staggering…

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-10-14 13:06:01

China is still run by the Communist Party. If you think our government is corrupt and full of self-serving bureaucrats…

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 13:59:59

The U.S. is run by capitalists who institute communism (”spreading the wealth around”).

China is run by communists who implement capitalism. And at least they do not have their minds numbed by religion.

You tell me which one is going to thrive and which will decline.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 14:43:21

“….You tell me which one is going to thrive and which will decline.” :-)

lil commie Chinese Gov’t:
“We don’t care ’bout no stinkin’ swine flu!”…”We don’t care ’bout no stinkin’ bird flu!…”we have 1.35 BILLION people who will eat what we give them and like it!” :-)

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Comment by NYchk
2009-10-14 17:23:56

I’m sorry, but there’s no “communism” or “communists” in China. There’s no “communist party” in China either. That’s just a name, just as meaningless as if George W. Bush would have called himself a “devout Muslim of African American descent”. Simply ain’t so!

It’s hilarious how clueless American public is, if they truely believe Chinese are “commies”. “Communism” means that everyone works to their ability and then SHARES the output, as the government distributes the spoils among the people in accordance with however much the person needs. “Socialism” is the same thing, except there’s not enough of final output to satisfy everyone’s needs. Europe is much closer to socialism/communism than China ever was.

In China, however, “the people” get NOTHING. Nothing at all. No share of the “common output”. No health insurance, no old age pension, no free education, no guaranteed employment, nothing. What China has is as far removed from communism/socialism as can be. What they have is a weird mixture of age-old bureaucratic feudalism with a sprinkle of capitalism.

And by the way, that’s where we’re headed as well. Capitalism morphing into monopolism morphing into parasitic feudalism. Scary.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 17:31:18

Actually, my semantics are that the leaders of China call themselves communists and want to be labeled as such, but you are correct. They are not communists. No health insurance, no OSHA, no old age pension, and such.

I call 8% GDP per year since 1978 the road to capitalism. Lots of people in China joined the middle class. I am old enough to remember Nixon’s visits to China and how everyone dressed drab, pedaled bicycles, and such. Now they wear colorful clothes, many cases upscale clothes, have modern architecture, and, like someone posted earlier, 1 million autos were sold there in the month of September. I would not call this a “sprinkle” of capitalism.

 
Comment by NYchk
2009-10-14 19:52:57

1 million autos annualized is still less than 1% relative to population, plenty of room to grow… However, colorful clothes and cars do not make capitalism.

For many centuries China was ruled by the distinct (and hereditory) class of state bureaucrats. Fundamentally, that hasn’t changed. Capital does not flow freely, and economy is ruled by bureaucrats, not private independent interests.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 20:54:38

“…as the government distributes the spoils among the people in accordance with however much the person needs.” ;-)

BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)

:-)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 13:08:43

“1. The Chinese want to live like we do.” ;-)

Ha, small missing detail on the 1.5 BILLION commie Chinese Gov’t demographics:

1. The entire population has NO “Empire Gov’t” safety net.($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

2. Since the commie Chinese Gov’t cares so much about it’s growing elderly population( how many is that? 300,00,000/450,000,000)…health care costs $$$$$$$$$$$$ are going to be minimal going forward…the Gov’t solution: eat rice, get better or die. :-)

 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-10-14 11:15:28

“Don’t be silly, everyone knows you can’t have price inflation without wage inflation!”
…from Dude

Not sure if you’re serious or not. I’ll answer anyway. Of course you can have price inflation without wage inflation.
Suppose on average everybody earns the same AND the amount of available goods and sevices is cut in half. What do you think that would do to prices? Exactly, price inflation. The same amount of $$ chasing fewer goods. It’s also called a reduction in the standard of living, coming to soon to an economy near you.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 11:39:52

Tongue in cheek, but all that is the hard core deflationist’s favorite argument. I agree, demand destruction in turn destroys production, and if liquidity is being misdirected to banker bonuses and obsolete union thugs it is tough to bring production back.

 
Comment by measton
2009-10-14 12:02:13

What we can’t have without wage inflation is house inflation. Printing money may cause commodities to rise but people will downsize to the point where they live in a cardboard box. Money will go for food and fuel and will not go for manufactured goods.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 13:09:37

I agree, anything that is a luxury gets a downgrade. We are already seeing this with all the stories about room mates and moving back in with family.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 14:05:21

Agreed. Wages staying low and taxes going up mean fewer home buyers.

In my case, it’s taxes going up, which means I brown bag my lunches. They are much healthier and I think I can save at least $200 per month bringing my own lunch.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 15:58:41

I keep telling myself I should do that Bill, but every day at lunch time a hear that *Double Double, protein style and a chocolate shake calling my name.

*(or equally delicious variant)

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Comment by michael
2009-10-14 13:13:01

that’s why i posted the article above…the 1.5% decline in inventories.

 
Comment by packman
2009-10-14 13:15:40

Not sure if you’re serious or not. I’ll answer anyway. Of course you can have price inflation without wage inflation.
Suppose on average everybody earns the same AND the amount of available goods and sevices is cut in half. What do you think that would do to prices? Exactly, price inflation. The same amount of $$ chasing fewer goods. It’s also called a reduction in the standard of living, coming to soon to an economy near you.

You’re forgetting one thing though. If half as many goods are being produced, that means that either:

A. Half as many people are doing the producing. Since 50% people are bringing in the same amount of income (since prices are double), their wages double. Or,

B. The same amount of people doing half the work. Doing half the work for the same amount of pay is essentially the same as 100% wage inflation.

That is indeed as you say a reduction in the standard of living, but it includes both wage inflation and price inflation.

Comment by Mike in Miami
2009-10-14 13:22:22

Not all goods that are available are also produced here, right? Most the stuff is Made in China. Once they tire of hoarding $$ we will have less stuff. less stuff = higher prices. Actually wages might even decline while prices rise. Standard of living squeezed both ways.
…and yes we can have house price inflation. The printing press is running full throttle to give $15K handouts of home buyers. They just keep uping the dosage.
Of course none of this will end well…

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-10-14 21:55:08

Did you see that they lowered the minimum wage in Colorado from $7.28 to $7.25. They should have lowered it to $7.24 but the Fed rate is $7.25 !

 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 11:30:29

For all you deficit hawks, no more worries: WH is “NOT COOL” with high deficits (choice of adjectives signifies the degree of worry):

White House “Not Cool” with Trillion-Dollar Deficits as Far as Eye Can See
Posted Oct 14, 2009 11:23am

Critics of the Obama administration argue that the President is bankrupting the country by spending more than $1 trillion a year more than the government generates.

These trillion-dollar deficits, moreover, aren’t expected to be a one-time thing. Many forecasters, including the White House, expect them to continue for the better part of the next ten years.

But here’s a relief: The White House is not cool with that!

We asked our guest Christina Romer, the chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, about the President’s attitude toward these deficits, and she confirmed that he’s not comfortable with them.

Mrs. Romer did not offer details about how the President plans to deal with these deficits, at least over the next few years. Rather, she stressed that the President’s strong priority is to get the economy back on firm footing.

To this end, the White House is very encouraged about the recent recovery and thinks GDP grew 2-3% in the third quarter.

Mrs. Romer was quick to manage future expectations, however.

The White House does not think we’re headed for a v-shaped recovery. And until we start to see robust job growth again, the President will not be saying “Mission Accomplished.”

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 11:43:26

Thank goodness he’s holding off on the “mission accomplished”, that right there proves he’s smarter than the Shrub. I sleep better at night knowing that our tele-prompter reader in chief is fighting to create or save American jobs.

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-10-14 14:09:32

oh sure:

“the White House is very encouraged about the recent recovery”

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 11:42:33

Oh the irony… We turn toward it and Cuba may be turning away from it…

Cuba gives ’socialism lite’ a try as recession deepens
The Miami Herald

Cuba’s workplace cafeterias are closing, President Raúl Castro keeps saying the well-off shouldn’t get the same subsidies as the poor, and now there are rumblings that one of the stalwart vestiges of the revolution — the ration booklet — has outlived its usefulness.

As the Cuban government struggles through a deep recession, its leaders have begun picking away at socialism in order to save it. But experts say the latest buzz by the Cuban government is simply another desperate fix to stem the slide of a failed economy that buckled long ago.

Even one of Havana’s leading economists recently said Cuba’s economy needed to be turned upside down — “feet up.” So taxi drivers got private licenses, farmers now have their own plots of land and government workers have to pack their own lunches.

“I think what they are trying to do is prepare the people for a hard landing,” said Cuba expert Jonathan Benjamin-Alvarado of the University of Nebraska. “The government is really saying in so many words: We’ve got limited resources and can only do so much. I think they are stuck.”

Since he took office early last year, Raúl Castro has been saying that the country’s severely battered economy needs fixing. In a widely quoted August speech, Castro said Cuba was spending more than it made.

“Nobody, no individual nor country, can indefinitely spend more than she or he earns. Two plus two always adds up to four, never five,” he said. “Within the conditions of our imperfect socialism, due to our own shortcomings, two plus two often adds up to three.”

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-10-14 13:26:15

Awaiting exeter’s comment.

Comment by sf jack
2009-10-14 16:34:57

LOL!!!

Really out loud.

I’m waiting, too…

Comment by exeter
2009-10-15 10:57:26

Allowing a journalist to form your reality? Again????!

Typical of the mindless.

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Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 14:13:44

Are you kidding me? You know how much money can be made $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ selling Cuban cigars & gulf oil to the lil’ commie Chinese Gov’t! ;-)

Raul Castro / Jim Rogers /wmbz : :-)

“The best advice of any kind that I can give you is to teach your children and grandchildren Chinese.”

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 11:56:52

“Gold is being re-monetized,” says MoneyWeek editor Simone Wapler. “All the world’s paper monies are losing value - and credibility. There’s a race to the bottom as they try to devalue their currencies.”

All countries are fighting for market share. In a price-sensitive world, they increase exports by cutting prices. And the fastest - sometimes, the only - way to do that is by devaluing the currency. But when one nation devalues - say, by printing extra money - other nations must devalue too in order to stay competitive.

What can they all devalue against?

“Gold is rediscovering its old role,” says Simone. “Once again, it is the way we preserve wealth and keep track of what things are worth.”

Excerpt- Daily Reckoning

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 13:14:00

Whodathunkit?

 
Comment by packman
2009-10-14 13:58:51

FWIW - you can color this pseudo-gold-bug surprised. I had’t really viewed gold as general inflation insurance, but rather as Mad Max insurance - i.e. including hyperinflation. I didn’t think it would increase this much unless things got really out of hand. It appears there is a gradual middle ground.

Comment by dude
2009-10-14 16:05:51

This isn’t gradual middle ground. This is the gentle slope that hides the under cut embankment alongside the 1000ft. chasm.

 
 
 
Comment by measton
2009-10-14 12:23:17

White-collar workers make up about 60 percent of the labor force and their higher earnings give them spending power that is invaluable to the economy’s health,” says CEO John Challenger in a new report.

An analysis of Bureau of Labor Statistics data found that of the 5.5 million Americans out of work for 27 weeks or more in September, 46 percent previously held management, professional and related occupations. By comparison, white-collar workers accounted for only 30 percent of the long-term jobless during the 2001 recession.

Put another way, when poor people are out of work it doesn’t matter so much to the overall economy because they don’t have much money to spend anyway. But when a manager used to making six figures is unemployed, that’s money not being spent on a new car, a new furniture or season tickets to UW football games.

Even high-wage earners who’ve kept their jobs are holding tight to their wallets. A recent survey by IBM found that 59 percent of respondents earning $100,000 or more have made significant spending cuts because of the economy.

But a bigger question no one is asking is whether an economy based 70 percent on consumer spending is flawed to begin with.

Americans since the 1980s have been played for fools with easy credit and cheap money to buy a lot of crap they likely don’t need.

What’s the “new economic model” if consumers finally wake up and decide to save like Grandma always said?

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-10-14 13:04:05

But a bigger question no one is asking is whether an economy based 70 percent on consumer spending is flawed to begin with.

Seems like that question gets asked almost every day here.

 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 14:21:29

“…What’s the “new economic model” if consumers finally wake up and decide to save like Grandma always said?”

DING! DING! DING! …we have a “American” winner! :-)

Amish = 1
99.9% rest of US of A = .000000000000303

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 12:24:15

Please don’t take my big screen away…

California appears set to ban high-energy, big-screen TVs

California regulators appear to be on track to pass the nation’s first ban on energy-hungry, big-screen TVs, the Los Angeles Times reports.

The newspaper says the influential lobby group Consumer Electronics Association appears to be losing the battle and is asking the California Energy Commission instead to let consumers decide on their own whether to buy the most energy-saving new models of LCD and plasma high-def TVs.

“Voluntary efforts are succeeding without regulations,” says the association’s Doug Johnson, the newspaper reports. He also warns that too much government interference could boost the cost of TVs for consumers.

But regulators could vote as early as Nov. 4 to set maximum energy-consumption standards for TVs to be phased in over two years beginning in January 2011.

That would bring TVs into line with lower energy consumption for refrigerators, air conditioners and dozens of other products that has been standard since the 1970s.

California’s 35 million TVs and related gear account for about 10% of all household electricity consumption, the commission staff reports, according to the newspaper.

The Times quotes one staff engineer as saying consumers could save $30 per set each year from reduced electricity use and avoid the $600-million cost of building a new power plant.

Manufacturers dispute the figures and argue that manufacturers are already developing new ways to make even 50-inch-screen models much more economical to operate, the Times says.

Comment by WT Economist
2009-10-14 12:31:40

My flat panel uses less juice than the old TV it replaced, and didn’t cost too much. Of course I waited to buy. It uses less than 1 watt when not turned on.

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 13:18:48

“…It uses less than 1 watt when not turned on.”

Thank You! :-)

 
 
Comment by mtnbikegirl
2009-10-14 15:00:33

Ya’all want to see riots in the streets…you don’t touch the po’s cable or big screen TV.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 16:02:31

wmbz:

Typical clueless nitwits….Here is a far better way to save even more energy…give tax breaks to employers based on the number of FT employees who work 2nd 3rd shift weekends and holidays.

Move a million people to overnight shits and there would never be a blackout in CA again we use more then double the energy at 4pm then at 4 am

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-10-14 19:55:28

“Move a million people to overnight shits and there would never be a blackout in CA again we use more then double the energy at 4pm then at 4 am”

Hmmm… you think a million people sitting on the toilet would make THAT big a diference?

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 23:04:54

man that’s about the first swear word i used on this blog… shifts damn me shifts…..

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Comment by measton
2009-10-14 12:24:31

WILMINGTON, Delaware (Reuters) – Two victims of Bernard Madoff’s Ponzi scheme filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Wednesday, seeking at least the $2.4 million they lost in the fraud.

The victims, believed to be the first to sue the SEC over the $65 billion fraud, said in court papers the agency was negligent and breached its duties by failing to investigate Madoff, despite numerous warnings and tips.

The suit, in New York federal court, is likely to be watched closely by other Madoff victims who blame the SEC for failing to detect the scam.

It is being brought by Phyllis Molchatsky of New City, New York, who lost $1.7 million, according to court documents filed by the Herrick Feinstein law firm. The other plaintiff is Steven Schneider, a New York doctor, who lost about $750,000.

 
Comment by measton
2009-10-14 12:27:06

ROME (AFP) – The food crisis in poor countries coupled with the global economic crisis have caused a spike in world hunger, with more than one billion people undernourished this year, the UN food agencies said Wednesday.

“No nation is immune and, as usual, it is the poorest countries — and the poorest people — that are suffering the most,” said FAO head Jacques Diouf and WFP chief Josette Sheeran in this year’s annual report on global food security being released in advance of World Food Day on October 16.

“Even before the food crisis and the economic crisis, the number of hungry people had been increasing slowly but steadily,” says the report compiled jointly by the Food and Agriculture Organisation and the World Food Programme.

“With the onset of these crises, however, the number of hungry people in the world increased sharply,” said the Rome-based agencies.

The financial crisis has led to declines in foreign aid and investment in poor countries as well as remittances from relatives working in wealthy countries.

“This loss of income is compounded by food prices that are still relatively high in the local markets of many poor countries,” the FAO said.
the top 0.5%

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-10-14 13:30:09

Just tell ‘em the DJIA hit 10k, that’ll fill their bellies.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 14:10:40

They’ll get over it.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 17:13:54

Maybe the Fed will solve world hunger by devaluing the dollar sufficiently that everyone outside the US can afford to buy our corn and wheat?

Come to think of it, that might be one of the few good side-effects of their current strategy of devaluation.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 13:16:21

According to mortgage bankers, it’s the gubmint’s job to get FBs “back on their feet”?

Oct. 14, 2009, 10:49 a.m. EDT
Letter of the day? W
Housing could take double dip down in 2010

By Steve Kerch, MarketWatch

SAN DIEGO (MarketWatch) — Despite signs of stabilization at the end of 2009, next year could prove treacherous for the housing and mortgage markets as a variety of woes could rekindle the falloff of the last two years, according to mortgage-industry veterans speaking at the Mortgage Bankers Association annual convention here.

“I’m a firm prophet of the ‘W’ shaped recovery. Housing is going to go down again in the first quarter of 2010,” said Steve Horne, CEO of Wingspan Portfolio Advisors, a firm that facilitates loan modifications. “The real healing won’t begin until all these nonperforming loans start trading in earnest, until we get these borrowers back on their feet.”

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-10-14 13:54:24

Steve,

You mean something entirely different by “healing” than I do.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 14:04:05

“The real healing won’t begin until all these nonperforming loans start trading in earnest, until we get these borrowers back on their feet.”

So Stevie, I wonder what we can do to get these “borrowers” back on their feet and back to borrowing?

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:45:01

It’s a mystery, ain’t it.

Hmmm…. there must be some way to make it so the borrowers can pay off those loans. But what could that be?!

Maybe we could invest all the new liquidity into more tricky financial shenanigans.

Tax breaks/credits?

Inflation?

Hmmm… *slowly tapping chin with one finger while looking thoughtful* What could it be?

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:17:44

How about if we electronically print up gazillions of dollars, and let them trickle down to the US asset markets? Pretty soon, them homes won’t seem nearly so far underwater as they are now, and then in a little bit longer, the owner’s wages can quickly catch up so them payments don’t seem quite so daunting…

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Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 13:56:02

Fed Says Some Officials Were Open to Buying More MBS (Update2)

Oct. 14 (Bloomberg) — Some Federal Reserve policy makers said last month expanding the central bank’s $1.25 trillion mortgage-backed securities purchase program may help boost the economy amid concerns the recovery may fade.

“Some members thought that an increase in the maximum amount of the committee’s purchases of agency MBS could help to reduce economic slack more quickly,” according to minutes of the Federal Open Market Committee’s Sept. 22-23 meeting released today in Washington. One member said the improvement in the outlook could warrant a reduction in purchases, the minutes said, without identifying the policy maker.

Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said last week the Fed will be prepared to tighten credit when the economic outlook “has improved sufficiently.” Fed officials in last month’s meeting considered the risks of an anemic recovery with unused capacity leading to “subdued and potentially declining wage and price inflation.”

“The Fed will be there to make sure that the flow of credit into housing continues and to make sure interest rates are nice and low for as far as the eye can see,” Allen Sinai, president of Decision Economics Inc. in New York, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. “They’re a long way away from any exit plan.”

Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 13:59:43

“Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said last week the Fed will be prepared to tighten credit when the economic outlook “has improved sufficiently.”

Tighten credit? LOL! This walking disaster doesn’t know what the word tighten means.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 14:06:31

Premier Resorts closes doors
thesunnews
Wed, Oct. 14, 2009

Premier Resorts, a Utah company that manages some properties at Barefoot Resort, closed its office and laid off employees Tuesday at the complex as its financial woes grow.

Premier Resorts International decided to stop all operations at the property at the close of business Monday, said Jamie Khan, a lawyer with Pratt-Thomas Walker, P.A., who represents Carolina First Bank.

In September, Carolina First Bank started foreclosure proceedings and filed a lawsuit against Premier Resorts International, based in Park City, Utah, and the local subsidiary, Premier Holdings of South Carolina LLC, for failing to make payments on two loans worth a total of $6.75 million.

Premier Resorts International, which manages properties and owns land at Barefoot Resort, has defaulted on loans and has failed to pay property owners. It is trying to sell some of its property at Barefoot Resort. A representative for Premier Resorts could not be reached Tuesday.

A letter that Premier Resorts at Barefoot Resort sent to property owners Tuesday said: “During the last couple of weeks, we have worked to transition the rental program to another operator. Unfortunately those efforts have not been successful and the rental program of Premier Resorts has ceased operations effective today. We are working to relocate guests to other accommodations.”

The company’s employees were told when they arrived at work Tuesday morning that they no longer had a job, said Lynn Brock, the owner of Barefoot Resort Spa, who rents space from Premier Resorts. Brock wasn’t one of those workers, but talked to ones who were laid off. It is unclear how many people were laid off.

She said the spa will stay open, but she expects her business will be affected because she got a lot of referrals through Premier.

“Most of my business came through Premier, so if they don’t have the people coming through, I don’t know,” she said. “I’m concerned. I’m hanging in there the best I can.”

A sign posted on the door to the registration center says, “Premier Resorts offices closed, Contact Beach Vacations.”

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 14:09:12

“Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the systematic organization of hatreds.”
~Henry Adams

Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 14:32:58

Hey, I have that exact quote in this here quotations book I got for $1.00 at the friends of the library book cart…hey, every little bit helps right? ;-)

Speaking of hatreds & politics…

There’s that word again: South Carolina! ;-)

The battle of Fort Sumter:

“What a change now greets us! The Government is aroused, the dead North is alive, and its divided people united…The cry now is for war, vigorous war, war to the bitter end, and war till the traitors are effectually and permanently put down.”—Frederick Douglass in May 1861.Google Books: The Struggle for Equality: Abolitionists and the Negro in the Civil War”

“The firing on that fort will inaugurate a civil war greater than any the world has yet seen…you will lose us every friend at the North. You will wantonly strike a hornet’s nest which extends from mountains to ocean. Legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary. It puts us in the wrong. It is fatal.”—Written to Jefferson Davis by Robert Toombs about Fort Sumter.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:50:40

In U.S Grant’s memoirs he constantly emphasizes that the the South’s intolerance and arrogance was their biggest weakness and ultimate cause of their downfall.

And will be again…

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-10-14 14:16:16

Hey, what happened to Barry’s pay czar? Oh that’s right he’s on the bonus list…

Shareholders Challenge Goldman Sachs as It Prepares To Pay Record Bonuses
October 14, 2009 3:00 PM EDT

BOSTON and NEW YORK, Oct. 14 /PRNewswire/ — Goldman Sachs is issuing its much anticipated earnings announcement on Thursday (October 15, 2009), and is expected to set aside up to $20 billion for executive bonuses. In view of this action coming so quickly on the heels of the federal bailout money issued to the company during the height of the financial crisis last year, investors are responding by mounting major proxy initiatives.

The Nathan Cummings Foundation and the Benedictine Sisters of Mt. Angel, Oregon announced today that they have filed a shareholder resolution urging the Board to review pay disparity at the company and analyze the appropriateness of its spiraling pay packages - packages that have an unprecedented impact on Wall Street compensation in general

The resolution, which is expected to gather more co-sponsors, has been filed early to challenge Goldman Sachs as the Board makes final decisions on bonuses. It was filed to appear in the 2010 proxy and be voted on at the stockholder’s meeting. Goldman Sachs had received resolutions calling for shareholders to have an Advisory Vote on executive compensation that received a 46% vote in favor, but the Board has resisted implementing even that modest reform. Other investors may also file resolutions calling for a “say on pay” or for separation of board chair and CEO positions at Goldman Sachs.

Laura Shaffer, who is director of shareholder activities of the Nathan Cummings Foundation and one of the resolution’s sponsors, stated: “This request is especially timely as Goldman Sachs rushes to pay huge bonuses, setting an example that many Wall Street firms will no doubt strive to emulate.

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-10-14 14:35:18

8 indicted on mortgage fraud charges in Wellington’s Versailles deals
By PAT BEALL
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 13, 2009

WEST PALM BEACH — The house at 3509 Mabillon Way in Wellington’s Versailles was popular in 2007 - too popular, according to federal indictments announced Tuesday.

In less than 31 days, the home was bought, sold, and finally sold again to Ericson Perez, generating a dizzying $882,000 hike in sales price in a month.

That wasn’t the only big number in play. Perez had qualified to buy the house based on his assertion that he was pulling down $49,000 a month working for Celltown Inc.

Now, the Cumming, Ga., man is one of eight buyers, mortgage brokers and title agents facing federal fraud charges, the upshot of a string of home sales in the upscale Wellington community of Versailles.

The Palm Beach County Mortgage Fraud Task Force said Tuesday that the group schemed to defraud Washington Mutual Bank of $8.5 million in mortgage money for five homes. Each of the properties was flipped, often in 24 hours, then fell into default within a year.

But before they went into foreclosure, the scheme netted anywhere from $10,000 to $155,000 for the “buyers” who lent their name to the deals and, in some cases, lied about their true income and assets.

Versailles is among a few upscale communities in Wellington, along with the Black Diamond and Olympia developments, that have been especially hard hit by foreclosures.

Last month, The Palm Beach Post wrote about another group of unusual home purchases in Versailles involving buyers from the Opa-locka area. That group, made up of people of modest means, picked up $41 million in mortgages in 2006 and 2007, then quickly defaulted without ever moving to Versailles. Their average time to default was only nine months.

The charges announced Tuesday don’t necessarily signal an end to investigations into home deals along State Road 7. Subpoenas reportedly have been issued within the past several weeks seeking information about other sales there.

In addition to Perez, also charged are Juan Carlos Lopez, 42, of Miami; Rony Alberto Aguilar-Hecker, 33, of Miami; Reinaldo Perez-Sanchez, 44, of Miami and Colombia; Pablo Atouro Aponte-Torres, 44, of San Juan, Puerto Rico; Fabio Salazar, 54, of Miami and Colombia; Roger Omar Nunez-Murillo, 60, of Miami Beach; and Idalmis C. Arias, 27, of Miami Beach.

Separately, two Palm Beach County residents were charged with recruiting college students and military members to lie on loan documents to obtain more than $1.7 million in mortgage money.

Stephen Mark Lecorgne, 29, of Palm Beach Gardens, and Brian Ernest Oelbermann, 28, of West Palm Beach, allegedly worked with Atlanta businessmen Allen J. Gingrich, 29, and Donte Deshaun White, also known as Donte Cox, 30.

Gingrich and Cox solicited students and military personnel to take out the loans, according to the charges, while Oelbermann and Lecorgne, two loan originators at Warshaw Capital LLC in West Palm Beach, helped get the loans financed.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:54:46

Good find. I’ve been telling folks around here to be patient. Eventually the RE fraudsters will be caught.

The problem is there was just so much of it!

 
 
Comment by jetson_boy
2009-10-14 15:55:08

I wanted to maybe get some thoughts from some of you old timers. I used to lurk on here a lot. Anyhow, I’ve been wanting to move out of California for years. I recently lost my job and have saved up quite a bit. Almost enough to just buy a house outright in another state. But the thing is that as much as I hate to say it, I’m not getting any bites on jobs out of state and now have 3 potential good paying jobs in the Bay Area.

Buying a home in the Bay Area has been off my radar because I was intent on moving away. But with the prospect of another few years of jobs here, I’m looking around tentatively. The frustrating thing is that despite all the news about lower house prices, the prices are still at what I consider outrageous levels. I can’t find hardly anything for under 500k. At that price these houses are still shitty little starter homes. I can’t bring myself to pay that much for a house. There’s also been news that home prices have actually maybe leveled off. So that frustrates the hell out of me. I am in in no way going to pay that kind of money for a house. No way.

lastly, the other cities I’m looking at are at the same time filling up with people from other states and getting expensive as well. Like WTF? How in the hell is this still going on? Sorry, I’m just venting.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 16:56:50

For now, stay where the job is and keep renting.

House are out there in abundance, but jobs aren’t.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 17:22:59

+1. That is my take exactly, jetson_boy.

Comment by drumminj
2009-10-14 19:12:56

Agreed. Granted, I moved w/o a job, but with how hard it was to find one (either here in Seattle or in Austin - was looking there as well), I’m going to vote for staying mobile.

Sorry to hear for the job loss, but it’s good that you have some solid leads. Good luck!

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Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 17:06:02

Its easy jetson boy

we have dumbed down america so badly, you are the only person to ask such good questions anymore.

seriously why is the dow at 10,000 when even in my little nabe not 1 new business has opened up all year, even a bodega closed up after a luxury upgrade…no kidding…new windows floors lighting refers…It lost that cheap personal storefront look with seats in the front, and now looks like another 7-11…poof gone

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 17:40:46

Don’t buy…rent

http://www.forrent.com/apartment-community-profile/1000057016.php

You rent in that place and it’s near Market and Van Ness…

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-10-14 17:58:22

My landlord is in tears over the slowly declining value of his property. He bears all the risk. All his marbles are in this basket. I just pay a little rent, as long as the place suits me.

If you think the deal is wrong, and your post reaks of it, don’t buy. You don’t have to, and the risks are great. The whole country is in denial stage, not even close to anger.

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-10-14 18:56:19

Hi jetson_boy. It’s frustrating and a lot of us are in the same boat you are - years of renting places we don’t love waiting for housing to fall to some realistic level. And just when things start to look hopeful that a correction is happening, the government interferes running up massive debt for all of us and propping up this ridiculous bubble. It truly sucks.

But remember, we are only in inning three of nine. We’ve only had a couple of years of downturn after almost a decade of prices going up, and things have no corrected back to where they should be by any stretch of the imagination. Winter and winter prices are coming. Unemployment will continue to rise for awhile. Banks will someday have to release all the shadow inventory which will grow as people continue to consolidate households.

I wish I had a crystal ball. If I knew prices were sustainable I might be willing to buy even at these horrific prices since a 5% loan has a lot of advantages. But I believe prices will only go down over the next few years. And I’d rather kick myself for being wrong and not buying before prices go up permanently than be stuck in a house that is slowly, or not so slowly, depreciating over the next few years. And like you I would love to leave California. If you can get a decent job and rent do it. This won’t last forever. Eventually either prices will come down to where they make sense with local incomes OR you will be able to get a job you want in a state with much more affordable housing. Yes, it’s frustrating but I still believe that delayed gratification during this time will pay off.

And you are not alone. Many, many, many of us here are frustrated and tired of behaving properly while those who behave badly get rewarded over and over again. But it has to end someday and I for one love having no debt even if I’ve been burned in so many other ways. Keep the faith! :)

Comment by ann gogh
2009-10-14 19:00:28

By the time I can buy I will be too old to maintain a home and garden. rent for life for this loser!

Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-10-14 19:25:42

We’ll have a house for all of us old, creaky losers to share and hire some young bucks to maintain the grounds, preferably shirtless. :D

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Comment by X-philly
2009-10-15 05:19:54

Nice.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 19:41:11

“…I’m just venting.”

jetson_boy, get that “bitter spit” out of your system anyway that works for you…then heed this vent from old Hwy:

DO NOT BUY! DO NOT BUY! DO NOT BUY! DO NOT BUY! DO NOT BUY!

Find a bitchin’ comfortable rental & RENT! RENT! RENT!

The tornado of desperation is coming…the damage is YET TO BE!

 
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-10-14 16:41:27

Dang she must not of got it in time…maybe not enough postage…darn! ;-(

Sources: Limpbaughs dropped from group seeking to purchase Rams:

“League sources told that Limbaugh’s candidacy in any Rams bid had “zero chance” of being approved by the league’s owners. In his statement, Checketts said Limbaugh’s participation had become “a complication and a distraction” to the group’s efforts.”

Previously:
(Hwy licks .28 cent stamp… sends postcard to God: “…Please close this deal ASAP!”) :-)

BWAHAHAHicHAHAHicHAHAHAHAHicHAHAHic* (DennisN™)

Rush Limbaugh says he’s trying to purchase Rams:
LA Times October 6, 2009
(…The Rams went 2-14 in 2008 and have lost their last 14 games.) :-)

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 17:33:59

Late post but this is very interesting read. I won’t have access to Internet tomorrow so someone can repost in tomorrow’s bits bucket if he/she feels like it. Go to CR to click on CNBC story from Diana Olick on LV bidding frenzy.

From CR:

The real estate market has gone crazy. At the low end we’ve been seeing many offers per house for some time, and recently agents have been telling me there is almost no inventory. Jim the Realtor has been reporting on this in San Diego, see: Hot All Over and The “Euphoria Express”

And from Diana Olick at CNBC today: Lunacy in Las Vegas Housing (ht Larry)

Olick include an email from a real estate agent to a client “Katie”:

- This market is crazy and many things are just not going to make any sense.

- Properties are selling in the blink of an eye.

- Properties are getting multiple offers within a few days of being on the market, the most offers I’ve heard a house had recently was 44 offers (I know, crazy).

- 40% of all transactions are cash purchases, which makes it harder for the buyers who are financing to get their offers accepted.

- We have 1/2 the inventory we had a year ago and 4 times as many buyers as we did a year ago.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-10-14 17:50:54

WTH is going on?

This is strange. Very strange.

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-10-14 18:03:14

cougar91
This smells like a planted propaganda email to me. Right out of the Monday morning sales meeting.FUD

Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 18:14:03

Could be, but then I have seen/read about bidding wars on the lower-end housings in some of these worst hit markets, so I won’t totally discount them either. From what I have heard of Diana Olick on TV, she is maybe the only person on CNBC who is more realistic and not a typical cheerleader for the market.

Just goes to show you, when gov’t is intending on distorting the market with QE, MBS purchases and of course $8K credit, the supply/demand and price curve is totally out of whack.

Will we all still be sane (relatively speaking of course as I can’t vouch for some HBB posters ;-) ) or alive by the time this madness end?

 
Comment by DD
2009-10-14 19:15:07

Awaiting, did you get my email?

 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-10-14 18:07:37

Further more, if you read the comments on the link, some people are actually buying with all cash and the flipping the same house to those who had to finance purchases as banks are unloading houses to cash buyers and ignoring financed buyers even if finance buyers are offering substantially more over asking price. Guess banks don’t want to deal with financing delays and just want to unwind these money losers as soon as possible.

So it would go something like this I imagine (not sure of all the logistics involved so this maybe oversimplifying things):

I have $100K in cash. I buy a house with all cash for $100K that sold for $250K back in 2006, but I know multiple bidders wanted to pay $120K but needed loans so the bank sold to me instead of these financed bidders. I then turn around and sell the house to one of these finance buyers for $120K and pocket the $20K difference within short amount of time.

Question is, what bank is willing to provide loan based on $120K price when it just sold for $100K? Can this really work?

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-10-14 18:30:45

Jim the Realtor has been reporting similar insanity in San Diego: 30 offers per house, etc. Search for his blog if you want to read about it.

So I actually doubt that this is just REIC shilling…

I think it’s just what should be expected when you pour gasoline on the embers of a fire. But once the wood-fuel is gone, the fire will not last long after you _stop_ pouring gasoline on it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:10:26

This is really great news, as it implies the housing market’s health is ripe for being restored. Consequently, there is no need to renew Dough-4-Dumps, or for the Fed to keep suppressing mortgage interest rates to generational low levels, or for so many mortgages to be issued with a government guarantee. The housing market is clearly ready to return to normalcy, without the crutch of government life support.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-10-14 23:14:27

Somebody asked before it might be the the same 30-40 people putting in bids on everything hoping 1 will hit….now that makes sense.

————————————–
30 offers per house, etc. Search for his blog if you want to read about it.

 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-10-14 17:43:36

So the low end houses are selling like hotcakes? These must be some of those $40,000 ones with bars in the windows. I suppose they are being snapped up by Don Trump wannabe landlords who hope to rent them out to low end card dealers.

But what about clean upscale LV places? Trump’s lofts are still several hundred bucks per sq foot.

 
Comment by Mike in Carlsbad
2009-10-14 18:55:13

No Shadow Inventory of Bank Owned Homes
Foreclosure Investors Still Finding Discounts at Trustee Sale
Discovery Bay, CA, October 13, 2009 - ForeclosureRadar (www.foreclosureradar.com),

Click my name for the full report.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:07:39

It sounds like foreclosure investors may hold a substantial shadow inventory of houses. Not sure about sneaky bankers…

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:13:33

“No Shadow Inventory of Bank Owned Homes”

The more I read lines like this, the more I suspect the whole housing bubble thingee was nothing but a big REIC-sponsored hoax, intended to milk more money from the American public into the hands of the REIC, through the forms of $8K tax credit, govt-guaranteed FHA loans and super-duper low mortgage interest rates engineered by the Fed. It is high time to own up to the fact that there was no real estate bubble, and get rid of all the market-distorting real estate purchase subsidies.

 
 
Comment by drumminj
2009-10-14 19:16:46

Late in the day, but wanted to share some good news….

In only 3 months of working, I’ve gotten my savings back to pre-unemployment levels. It’s amazing how easy it is to save when one doesn’t feel compelled to buy all kinds of useless crap, and I’ve still been living a pretty good life - going out to eat every now and again, etc.

So, after 9 months of unemployment and the expenses of moving 2000 miles, I’m back to where I started. It feels good. *And* I still have a job, so hopefully I can get ahead some too.

Now, if only the purchasing power of the $$$ was still the same…

J

Comment by hip in zilker
2009-10-14 20:07:22

Good for you, drummin! You got caught up fast.

You missed a really horrible summer in Austin. In August I was pouring with sweat at midnight, just sitting on the deck reading.

Comment by drumminj
2009-10-14 21:30:53

In August I was pouring with sweat at midnight, just sitting on the deck reading.

Yeah, I don’t miss it :) We’ll see how the first full winter out here goes, though. I’ll have to go back and visit to soak up some “warm” weather in the winter months.

 
 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-10-14 20:17:33

drumminj
Great news on your job and savings account. Where did you move from and to?
What advice would you have for someone facing the same decisions?

Comment by drumminj
2009-10-14 21:42:43

Thanks, awaiting.

Where did you move from and to?

I moved from Austin, TX to Seattle, WA. Got laid off back in September, and had been thinking about moving (to the Bay area, actually, for my job - was working remotely), and selling my house anyhow. Sold the house the day I listed it, so had to decide real quick what to do. Moved to Seattle without a job (had been applying/interviewing, but no dice). Took another 6 months before I found a gig, and it’s only contract ( < a year).

What advice would you have for someone facing the same decisions?

Not sure I have anything to offer, unfortunately. I’m glad I made the move - was a good time, already being jobless and wanting to sell the house. I’m happier here, but I also have no wife/children, so if things go south I’m the only one who’s inconvenienced. I can certainly say that being flexible location-wise is helpful - I had interview opportunities in Chicago, San Fran, etc - but wanted to move not for job but for quality of life. At 31 years old, I can afford that luxury, especially with a decent bank account balance due to selling the house.

It’s interesting. In retrospect, I would’ve been in a pickle if I hadn’t been so conservative financially up to this point, and hadn’t sold my house. My liquid savings (minus house proceeds) was dried up right when I got my first batch of contract work. Not sure what I would have done if I still had a mortgage (my rent is roughly same as mtg was in Texas). Meanwhile, all my friends/acquaintances think I’m crazy for yelling the sky is falling.

Best I can say is be conservative, and make sure that if you do make a move, that you have the resources to ride it out. It’s hard finding a job when you don’t have a professional and social network to help you with leads, as well as support you.

Feel free to email me directly if you want - I unfortunately don’t have time to read the blog during the day. Just use my username here @ yahoo dot com.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 21:48:19

BBC NEWS

Page last updated at 17:11 GMT, Friday, 30 January 2009
Banker + gangster = bankster

(Protesters dressed as a City fat cat and Gordon Brown in bed together)

A POINT OF VIEW

It seems timely to resurrect this Americanism from the 1930s - one of many evocative words the United States has contributed to the English language, says Harold Evans.

Americans are pretty good at adding words to the English language. We owe them pin-up girls, highbrows, killjoys, stooges, hobos, drop-outs, shills, bobby-soxers, hijackers, do-gooders and hitchhikers who thumb a ride.

The Americanisms are so much more concise and vivid. Instead of saying “sorry we’re late but drivers ahead of us slowed us down when they craned their necks to look at a crash” you can say “we were held up by rubberneckers”.

Words pop in and out of our language as social conditions change. The American gangster, which is still with us, has been around as a noun and a reality since 1896 according to my Shorter Oxford, but it seems to have dropped another Americanism from the 1930s and I think now is the time to revive it.

The word is bankster, derived by a marriage of banker and gangster.

It was coined, as far as I can deduce, by an American immigrant, a fiery Sicilian-born lawyer by the name of Ferdinand Pecora. He was the chief counsel to the US Senate Committee on Banking set up in the early 30s to probe the origins of the Crash of 1929.

He exposed quite a lot of the Wall Street practices that Harvard’s Professor William Z Ripley had condemned in 1928. The believable Ripley called them - get ready for these Americanisms - “prestidigitation, double-shuffling, honey-fugling, hornswoggling and skullduggery”.

The professor had vainly tried to warn President Calvin Coolidge that Wall Street was full of gas and was bound to blow up. To great discomfort all round, Pecora identified Coolidge himself, by then out of office, as one of those who’d been in on the honey-fugling.

The great banking house of JP Morgan had the president on a “preferred list” by which the bank’s influential friends were given a chance to buy stock at half price. Shall we say, they made out like bandits?

Today the term bankster perfectly fits Bernard Madoff, whose crooked Ponzi scheme lost $50 billion of what the trade calls OPM - other people’s money - invested with him.

Costly rug

But the revelations come thick and fast. People are now struggling for words to describe the latest example of Wall St’s money madness. The fabled investment bank Merrill Lynch, run by one John Thain, had so many big zeroes on its balance sheet it would have been liquidated in December but for a merger with the Bank of America.

A shotgun wedding

That was actually a shotgun marriage - in the US vernacular - since the Bank of America was forced to take billions of government money when it learned later that Merrill Lynch was down another $15bn.

Then what? In the few days in December while he was still in charge, Mr Thain reportedly spent nearly $4bn on staff bonuses. That’s peanuts on Wall St. In 2007 Mr Thain himself received $83m.

But a week ago, CNBC’s Charles Gasparino, in a detailed scoop on the Daily Beast website revealed that during the time Mr Thain was busy cost-cutting, he spent $1.1m doing up his office - $86,000 for a rug, $35,000 for something called a commode on legs.

Readers bayed for blood, posting comments such as: “Oh how I wish this was Revolutionary France and we peasants could storm the offices…”

The anger about the greed that got us into our mess is, in my view, wholly justified. And now we hear that 10 of the big banks that got $148bn from Uncle Sam so they could make loans to get things humming again have actually reduced their loan totals by $46bn.

Mr Thain now is history, having resigned, but the great Bank of America, the biggest in the US and maybe the world is now on the list of banks that may have to be nationalised - a word no red-blooded American ever thought would be uttered in the land of enterprise.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 21:58:27

Who will California screw over to bear Capers’ losses, and how will they screw them?

One suggestion to fellow Californians: Mind your driving habits. My wife and I have received more moving violations between us over the past year than we received collectively over the preceding four year period. And my driving habits are the same as before (until just lately, when I have slowed down considerably…)

* The Wall Street Journal
* OCTOBER 15, 2009

More Pain for State’s Taxpayers, Cities

By STU WOO and JIM CARLTON

The cost of shoring up Calpers, the troubled $200 billion pension fund for California public employees, will ultimately fall on the state’s 38 million residents, who are already dealing with tax increases and reduced public services.

The state and local governments are contractually bound to increase their payments to Calpers to help it make up for its investment losses of more than $50 billion in the fiscal year ended June 30. Officials around the state are calling for more oversight of Calpers, which announced Wednesday it was investigating fees paid by its investment managers.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, shown in Los Angeles Sept. 30, asked this summer for stricter oversight of public funds such as Calpers.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s office in July asked the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, which oversees public funds such as Calpers, for stricter oversight of the funds.

David Crane, an economics adviser to Mr. Schwarzenegger, said the fund’s losses mean “there is less money for parks and recreation, less money for the University of California, less money for health and human services.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-10-14 22:05:08

* The Wall Street Journal
* NEWS & TRENDS
* OCTOBER 13, 2009

Real-Estate Pros Go Moonlighting

By DANA MATTIOLI

The housing market’s long decline has left once-thriving real-estate professionals scrambling for supplemental income or changing professions.

Realtors, agents, brokers and builders rely on sales and commissions for most of their income. And their incomes plunged as sales of existing homes fell 13.3% to 4.9 million last year from 7.1 million in 2005, the most recent peak. The National Association of Realtors says median income for Realtors and brokers fell to $36,700 last year from a high of $49,300 in 2004. The group’s membership fell to 1.14 million in September from 1.35 million in September 2006.

 
Comment by Paul Mayson
2009-10-15 06:00:35

I wouldn’t doubt bidding wars. They are giving away FHA loans and 203K Streamline also. These loans are going to uneducated, ignorant, and gullable buyers who can easily default when one small problem occurs in their life. The loan puts them in a stretch and they have no savings. I see an ocean of HUD homes in the future.

 
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