The Housing Bubble

My inlaws are both recently retired ex-govt employees. MIL retired at the ripe old age of 57. FIL at 59. They were both lifers, getting their 1st - and only - job with the govt after graduating. Great pension, health care provided for, house paid off, all 4 kids out of the house.

Assuming they live another 25 years which given their excellent health is quite probable, they will have spent almost as much time working as they will receiving payment from the govt for not working.

Nice gig if you can get it.

? Can the people vote down the pension? Can we vote to cut benefits to pensioners legally?

“Can the people vote down the pension? Can we vote to cut benefits to pensioners legally?”

That would be dependant upon the language of the Constitution or other governing documents of nation/state/municipality. Legally, you may be able to do it.

Morally, its a different question. But most folks are only too happy to take from others these days for their own benefit.

My inlaws are both recently retired ex-govt employees. MIL retired at the ripe old age of 57. FIL at 59.

My BIL - state employee - is going to retire with pension in two months at 55.

However note that by comparison GM employees
are (were?) eligible for pension at 48. Not a small factor in their bankruptcy path, I’m sure.

You guys are all looking at the little fish.

Promoting fighting amongst the serfs is a sport for the rich people.

You guys are all looking at the little fish.

Promoting fighting amongst the serfs is a sport for the rich people.

DITTO.
The wealthy love that ‘we’ fight about the crumbs.
Drive on James, nothing here to see. ahem.

Oh please quit this nonesene.

When govt employees retire in their mid-50s with full pensions and benefits while private sector employees have to go another 10-15 years with no pension/benefits when they retire, it gets a little irksome.

quit this nonesene.

When govt employees retire in their mid-50s with full pensions and benefits while private sector non-union employees have to go another 10-15 years with no pension/benefits when they retire, it gets a little irksome.

Clarified that for you.

And - saying that private sector gets “no pension/benefits” is stupid, even for non-union. I’ve never been in a union, and yet I’ve got pensions from two different companies coming when I retire (albeit small ones, since I had short tenures). That doesn’t include 401k.

work for the state .. Maryland … just doesn’t work this way anymore - at least not for newer employees. not all employees are allowed into pension system, and when you are, you pay increasing % in every year to pay for all the current retirees. And benefits are not as good. I don’t expect the pension to be there when I qualify anyway …

Ummm, don’t people have the right to chose where they want to work private vs. government? All of you government worker bashers, why haven’t you gone and worked for the government?

JLR,

I can attest to that. My daughter won’t even come -close- to getting the package offered to older workers. ( I should think by now it would only be too obvious it was completely UNsustainable ) But as you’ve noted, I got’s mine.

SanFranciscoBayAreaGal,

Again, that would have made a great defense going back to 80’s, possibly early 90’s. After that point, there really wasn’t any turning back. What PensionTsunami -won’t- tell you is the avg. Calpers recipient gets an avg. ( I believe ) of closer to $26k-$27k per year in pension. Not including ‘other’ benefits, cash only.

A far cry though from those top 6,133 that amass over $100k per year. The ‘real’ problem w/ your suggestion ( and I’d hoped this would have been obvious too… ) is that we can’t ALL work for the State.

Public service pay seems to be slower to rise during the good times and very, very resistant to going down when times are bad. This time, though, I think times are bad enough that pay cuts are required. Pensions will take a hit too. Government should always reflect the society it serves, for better or worse.

During the early 1980’s the Reagan admin. got FERS (Fed. Employees Retirement System) passed. I am only somewhat familiar with this program but as a recall, Fed employees contribute to a pension plan that pays them 1% per year at retirement, they are allowed to contribute up to 15% to a Thrift Savings plan with Gov’t matching for the first 5% and they contribute to SS and will draw from that when they are old enough. Therefore only about 25 to 35 % of the average of their high 3 years salary comes from the Fed. Gov’t as a pension. They are subject to the general market for the Thrift plan and receive SS as it exists for everyone else.

I think this is a fair system that costs the Fed. Gov’t very little. Now the various state retirement systems are a different story.

“Assuming they live another 25 years which given their excellent health is quite probable, they will have spent almost as much time working as they will receiving payment from the govt for not working.”

No problem here; these folks put in their time.

Now lets look at a welfare queen squeezing out a fresh puppy every year from a different dawg each time. Add up the section-8 housing, medical, prisons, victim’s expenses, etc., and we’re talking about serious money. There is no transparency in the social safety net’s true costs.

Yeah they put in their time. But working 30 years and then collecting a pension for 30 years? Doesn’t seem quite right.

I worked 14yrs for a local gov unit and receive $770mn at age 55

Acquaintance of mine’s wife works for the state…….hired on right out of high school, as a weekend dispatcher. Because of her seniority, she calls in sick on one of her three days EVERY WEEKEND.

She is currently eligible for a partial pension at 38.

I’m calling BS on this one. Whine with your cheese?

I can’t tell you how many times I was told that working for gov cheese was dumb, and I should go to the private sector where I “could make some real $” This was evident with little to no interest in posted jobs available with ave response being 5-10 applications/resumes (if we were lucky) for each opening- most unqualified. It was like pulling teeth to get a job filled here. The BIG money was elsewhere… Until now. What a difference 3 years make.

We are getting 150+ responses for EVERY opening- most overqualified. Now I’m told practically weekly how smart I am to go for the pension and benifits. WTF? You can’t have it both ways people. Sounds like many made their choice and now want to switch… TOO LATE.

So here I sit working structured hours with structured pay and retirement. I see similarities with this subject and what this blog is all about. Buy now and go for mucho profit, or, sit and rent because you knew it was crazy to begin with. I went with “low” pay knowing there would be a little shelter when SHTF.

But then again- I’m not in Cali-land pulling a 6 figure salary. I make $48K/year (before tax) and I am happy with it.

Well, no DinOr, it works for the 2000s also.

You have a choice to go work in the private industry or the government. And I’m not saying we can all work for the state. You can put your application or resume for a government or private job. The PTBs will then decide to interview you and if you are the right person you will be offered the job. This is free choice. You can choose to go with the government or stay in the private industry.

“And - saying that private sector gets “no pension/benefits” is stupid, even for non-union. I’ve never been in a union, and yet I’ve got pensions from two different companies coming when I retire (albeit small ones, since I had short tenures). That doesn’t include 401k.”

401k is irrelevant. It’s money put away by the worker not given by the employer.

Second, you **GOT** pensions. Those days are long gone. A pension is non-existent in the private sector. Even IBM which had the mother of all pension plans got rid of it for new hires a few years ago.

I work for myself so I wouldn’t get a pension even if companies did offer them. Still pisses me off that I have to subsidize government “workers” who do nothing for 30 years while drawing a paycheck and then get to spend the next 30 drawing a pension all from the taxpayer.

Had I know the racket working for the govt truly is, I would have done it after college. It’s too late now. To qualify for all the good stuff, I’d have to be there until well into my 60s.

Americans back in the ’50’s & ’60’s, both private and public, expected and demanded pensions from their employers, so they got them. Current private sector workers neither expect nor demand pensions so they don’t get them. I don’t see what the issue is.

Jon,

And I can’t harp on that enough. In the 90’s everyone thought their next dot.com IPO would be the road to early retirement, in the 2000’s it was your ‘home’ that was going to make you rich!

While you still LIVE in it!

Of course both are patently ridiculous but it doesn’t stop us from living out our fan….tasies. In the end, more people will be working harder and longer as a result of their unreasonable expectation of ‘early’ retirement.

401k is irrelevant. It’s money put away by the worker not given by the employer.

Pretty much every employer matches 401k contributions to some extent; usually somewhere from 3-6%. Mine tacks on an additional year-end contribution of about 5%; so it ends up being about 10-12%.

I’m not sure how this compares with normal pension contributions - but to say that 401k company contributions are irrelevant is ludicrous. 401k’s are taking the place of pensions at many companies. They may not be the same in scale (I’ve never seen data, but would be curious), but they are significant - certainly not “irrelevant”.

To make a general statement to you Eddie - you’re a very opinionated person - but you really need to learn more about a lot of subjects before you make most of your statements.

Packman,

I’m a public sector employee in Florida and in a position to know. My employer pays 11% of my income to the state retirement system. We have a 401k (actually 457B) program with no match because of the pension benefit. I contribute about 6% of my income to that. It used to be 10%, but I decided to pay off my house instead.

The State provides the option for employees to take the employer contribution and use it as a 401K instead of the pension system, and many choose to do so.

I am in the senior executive class of the state pension system. So I will get 2%/year of service at the average of the 5 highest paid years. If I retire at less than 30 years or age 62, 5% of the benefit is deducted/year.

2%/year for 30 years in the Hell of public sector IT runs out to 60% of my highest 5 years. I plan to leave at age 58 which will give me 25 years (assumes I’m not fired for going insane on a politician). I will work somewhere else until age 63, so that I don’t take the 5% hit.

Where I work, the average pay is $39K and most folks get the regular service level of 1.4%/year. 30 years * 1.4%/year = 42% * 39K = $16,380/year pension. Hardly a reason to work for the government for 30 years.

Special services class for police/fire is a 3% multiplier. 33 years gets you 100% of pay. Start at age 22, work until 55, be a top dog and you can get $100K/year for the rest of your life. That’s where the gravy is.

I have worked for 3 civil/mech/arch companiies that had 401k plans. The most any had was a match max of $1,800yr

My company has never had a match. We suck.

I have worked for 3 civil/mech/arch companiies that had 401k plans. The most any had was a match max of $1,800yr

I’ve never seen a company have a dollar figure as it’s max. I’ve worked for 3 companies as well, and all had 50-100% match, on 6% employee contribution; so company’s was 3-6% match, which works out to $4-6k given the federal max at the time (now I think it’s $15k or so).

My company has never had a match. We suck

Mine too, montana. Except for mgmnt, and 1% for non union FT which these days there is only 1/4 are ft. There ya have it. Sux.

you can always tap into 401k/IRA if it comes down to that.

Of which you will be double taxed. It is a backstop though.

Of which you will be double taxed.

Referring to 10% early withdrawal penalty?

I was thinking more of loans - at least for 401k, which aren’t subject to the penalty nor to tax. Though I’ve never done it, so not sure the logistics; e.g. I’m not sure if you can take out a loan against your 401k if you’re unemployed - however I’m pretty sure the 10% penalty is waived in that case.

Of which you will be double taxed.

Referring to 10% early withdrawal penalty?

Nope. You borrow, you use that $ which gets used as taxable income, then you pay it back, then you get it at retirement which is then taxed.

You borrow, you use that $ which gets used as taxable income

That’s only true if you don’t repay within 5 years. Otherwise you’re not taxed on borrowed funds. After 5 years it’s considered an early withdrawal (subject to the tax and the 10% penalty).

DD,

I believe there are some exceptions such as a “Hardship Loan” etc. But that’s getting wrapped around the axle. The point is that *packman sucked it up and did-what-he-HAD-to-do!

How many ‘foreclosures’ are out there where there hasn’t been a (single) missed paycheck? Again this boils down to what we called the “No-fault Housing BOOM Option”.

If the house goes UP in value, then great! Continue making payments ( if only from subsequent and ’serial’ re-fi’s! ) If it doesn’t..? Well then walk away or better YET, stick around and live Rent Free until the Sheriff comes knocking! Either way, YOU ‘win’.

DinOR,

I don’t think you can get a loan from a 401(k) if you are not an employee at the time. My recollection is also that you have to pay back any outstanding loan if you are fired/laid off/otherwise cease to work for the employer.

So, if you want to use the 401(k) money after being laid off, taking it out and paying the taxes is the only way to go. However, you are correct that you aren’t paying taxes on it twice. You take it out and pay taxes and penalty. That is it since you didn’t pay tax on it when you earned it and put it in the 401(k). Any new money that you use to “replace” (it is really just starting the savings process again) is not taxed when earned and contributed and is taxed when taken out. It is new money. It is only taxed once.

DD,

A loan is not taxable income. You get taxed if you withdraw money from deferred tax accounts, not if you borrow it. The 401(k) loan programs have a lot of rules and not everyone is eligible to participate, but I dare you to find any circumstance in the tax code where a legitimate loan is considered taxable income. It can happen when a loan is forgiven and the relief from responsibility to pay the debt is considered income, but not the loan itself. Not ever.

ome exceptions such as a “Hardship Loan” etc. But that’s getting wrapped around the axle. The point is that *packman sucked it up and did-what-he-HAD-to-do!

Didn’t say packman didn’t. Think you might have misunderstood my post, or it came much lower than originally intended.

polly,

True, again according to the original survey though, they were referring to males vice females “tapping” their ret. plan so I kind of worked off the assumption they were still employed at their company.

That aside, if your sucking… bad enough to have to tap your ‘former’ employers plan, suffice to say you can’t have that much income to owe taxes ‘on’. So it ‘can’ be kind of a wash.

My guess is that without the ability to do a cash-out re-fi ( our ace in the whole for the last decade or so ) these people were bound for trouble with or withOUT missing a paycheck? Oh and another possibility is to draw against your rollover ( for no more than 60 days! ) get current, and then hopefully be able to re-fi or sell ( right! ) and then replace said funds within the time allowed. But that’s kind of living in the 90’s, isn’t it?

FWIW - there wasn’t much sucking up I needed to do, due to severance. However if need be I could have gone 12 months without a significant change in lifestyle, and probably 2-3 years without doing something drastic (like selling my house or borrowing from 401k).

Also FWIW - I really shouldn’t cast stones at those who don’t save up as much as me - I do make a pretty decent salary, so it’s a little easier for me to save than most. Nevertheless each person should still save up a significant amount, and live their lifestyle according to what they can afford. And not expect others to bail them out when they don’t.

Isn’t it incredible that here at the HBB a lot of us consider emptying the 401k a drastic measure. I wonder where the rest of the country puts that “solution.” Before eliminating restaurant meals? Before skipping manicures? Before selling the nice car and getting bare transportation? Before cutting down on expensive after shool activities?

“Before eliminating restaurant meals?”

NOW we’re getting somewhere!

“I could have gone 12 months without a significant change in lifestyle”

Or… you could have gone 12 months without paying your mortgage/”rent”? I understand that for a lot of families, even if you have the experience and wisdom to see tougher times coming, to set aside cash. It’s not always that easy.

But what they ‘can’ do is make adjustments in their consumption habits/lifestyle. We had an NPR audio link a year or so back from a young couple in Modesto ( the Free Rent Capital ) and the gal actually said; “Now that we’ve given up on paying our mortgage it’s nice to be able to afford a baby-sitter so we can go out to dinner a couple of times a week” or words to that effect.

A fellow member of Sr. management in my last place of employment typically earned in the low to mid $200’s/year and never put more than the matched amount in the 401-K (5%) and as near as I could tell, had no other savings or investment programs. He claimed that his $million house (30 year min down loan) on the golf course was his retirement investment, because Real Estate never declined in value. Well, now that company (consumer discretionary products) is all but TU (I’m gone but employed elsewhere), everyone there is working at 60% of previous base pay and no bonus money. Most of the company’s locations are in the tulies, so the ability to find other employment locally is very limited if not impossible

I wonder how the guy is doing. Even if he is margially able to keep up with the payments, the stress of living that way would make life all but not worth living, at least for me.

I learned in the ‘82 recession, live below your means, save way more than you think you need to and assume that next year is going to be tougher than this year. Then, sort of as if by magic, when you hit your late 50’s and early 60’s you are kind of bullet proof. I’m pretty much working for the enjoyment of it now, or at least to avoid boredom, and for health insurance. If I lost this job tomorrow, I could ride off into the early retirement sunset without any huge hiccups (except for that health insurance thing, but no plan is perfect).

‘Everyone needs to save up at least 6 months salary for just such occasions.’

Agreed, but you can still be hurting if you are unemployed for 18 months. Unless you are ready to retire and live on your savings for the rest of your life, you can reach a point where your best laid plans go awry.

‘Additionally you can always tap into 401k/IRA if it comes down to that.’

Assuming you haven’t already tapped it and it hasn’t become your 201K or less. I have a friend who lost everything last year - house, 401K - and went BK. She is starting over at 60. Fortunately, she is healthy and in good spirits. She is still enjoying life and not letting it get her down. We agreed that when you can’t change your circumstances, you can change your attitude.

That’s only true if you don’t repay within 5 years. Otherwise you’re not taxed on borrowed funds. After 5 years it’s considered an early withdrawal (subject to the tax and the 10% penalty).

FWIW, in general you guys were right, except, the one caveat…
if you withdraw/take a loan against your 401k which is pre tax. And you pay it back with money that is taxed- which is the ONLY way you pay it back, and then you take it out again when you retire, it is taxed again. DBL taxed. See? Otherwise, yes. If you dont’ get matched funds go roth ira.

“…when you hit your late 50’s and early 60’s you are kind of bullet proof…”

My all-time favorite cross-stitch sampler hung in the office of a studio producer. It read:

“Assume nothing.

-God.”

Michael Franti recently played at the Rialto Theatre in Tucson. Before his performance, he stopped at KXCI-FM, which has been a huge promoter of his music.

Since KXCI was in the midst of the fall membership drive, Franti signed a bunch of his CDs. It was his way of thanking KXCI for its support.

I wasn’t working the pledge phones when the Franti CDs were offered as premiums, but I’m told that they were snapped up in a hurry.

But Zydeco is Integration music, I find that very rare in America.

aNYCdj,

If you want a real kick, Rory Gallagher’s album “Fresh Evidence” is laden w/ Zydeco influence. Lots of fun, sadly his last album.

We miss ya’ Rory.

I remember Spearhead. There are other positiveish rap songs, of course. Blackalicious. I like Immortal Technique. And I have to admit it, I tend to listen to some nerdcore hiphop, Jesse Dangerously, YTCracker, MC Chris (even tho he was pretty rude to a friend), MC Lars, etc. Sage Francis has good stuff.

Old school? Man Parrish - Boogie Down Bronx. Mmm vocoder.

This is much better Va:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APPJHQXFylU

Sage Francis Yes Old school Before Wu Tang

AZ, thanks for the anecdote about Michael Franti. It’s good to know that an entertainer who seems to be a nice guy apparently actually is - not just playing one.

VaBeyatch, I never heard of nerdcore hiphop. But nerd is my tribe - I’ll check it out.

Yea I know Matisyahu! But his later stuff is way more regge. I saw Crystal Method, and he collaborated with them on a track that is easily the best on their new album. Matisyahu wasn’t at the show. Neat stuff tho.

I think that’s George Clinton.

Or Sun Ra?

Nah, I’m sure the lyrics are available online. As I recall them:
I’m Cosmo-D from outer space
I came to rock the human race.
I do it right because I can’t do it wrong
That’s why the world is singin’ this song.
Jam on it.

Dang good question! Anyone know? If so - that’s huge.

To paraphrase - if you miss payments on your mortgage, you still accrue interest (outside of the penalties). If you later then “catch up” on your loan, and eventually pay it off, you will have paid more $$ to the bank than you would if you had stayed current. I believe your point is that this “more $$” may be being booked by the banks up front as extra profit now - right?

If this is really true, then this could go far towards explaining the big recovery in bank profits recently. However what that does mean is that these are “false profits” - unless home prices have a truly miraculous rebound, with an even bigger bubble than before - these profits will turn to losses later, and we’ll probably have the crash-to-end-all-crashes.

I seem to recall warnings about false profits from the Bible or something.

It would depend on the bank accounting rules on accounts that aren’t current. Note, despite my occasional quip about accounting, I am not an accountant. However, in general, a business like a bank is going to be on an accrual accounting system. That means they book income when they have “earned” it (meaning done everything that they need to do to be able to claim that the money is owed to them), not when they receive it. Since not taking the principle back is about all they have to do to have “earned the money” I think they would book it that way. There may be special rules just for banks that say they shouldn’t book the income if the account has defaulted. No idea what the details might be.

Please remember, that if a bank is only servicing the loans, not actually holding it, its responsibilities for “earning” the servicing fees will be spelled out in its contract. Just letting the loan not pay and never doing anything might not be enough.

Perhaps Englishman in NJ can let us know what the servicers have to do to earn their fees under these agreements? Is just ignoring a default an OK result?

That sounds about right.

In a similar case - I worked for a telecom company back in the 2000 timeframe. One of our biggest customers was the startup WinStar. When they declared bankruptcy we took a huge profit hit, because we had declared several million $$ worth of their “ordered, delivered, but not paid for” equipment as revenue already. Their bankrupcty declaration forced us to then turn around and write those $$ off as losses.

Seems like the same case is true for the banks and/or MBS asset values. In essence any loans that have not yet actually gone through the foreclosure process are still considered performing for bottom line purposes, even if payments have stopped and probably even if a NOD has been served; though maybe the NOD is where the line is drawn.

I would hope that all of this is being taken into account regarding banks’ health - but maybe not. It’s all accounting black magic to me.

Usually your auditor (or in the case of banks) regulator has limits on what must be considered non-accrual (typically this is 90 days late but I’m not sure if they’re still holding this) and what must be charged off or reserved against. All loans have reserves taken that can rise if there is eveidence that the loan won’t be repaid.

Once loans stop perfoming, typically 90 days past due, accounting rules require that you stop accruing interest. You cannot book income that you are not likely to receive.

And further, the banks are required to make loan loss provisions for the principle balance and any unpaid interest, based on the expected recoveries on the collateral underlying the loan. So, no the banks don’t record income on bad loans, they infact take big accounting and economic losses.

The reasons banks aren’t faster in foreclosure and eviction is that is a time consuming and people intensive process and the banks are just swamped. A bit like the freeway at 5:30 pm there is just not enough capacity to deal with the magnitude of the problem so the queue starts to build.

I live in a well established, mature middle class neighborhood and I have noticed just in the past month or so, about a half dozen apparently avacant homes that I suspect are in the forclosure process. They become a blight very quickly.

Morning Oly,

Yeah,

Girls come with the some wonderful standard operating equipment but for some reason they seem to want to start messing with nature and knives when they get a few extra bucks to play with.

I’m a guy and I guarantee, if it’s for us, we’re just not worth it

Dang girl, I couldn’t stop laughing also. Why do parents do that to their kids?

She’s not a playa, she’s a…

I kinda figured a RE chick named Banga…would awaken the Dead in here.

The largest creditor listed is Wauwatosa-based Waterstone Bank, with unsecured claims totaling $1.8 million. Also, real estate agency franchisor GMAC Home Services LLC of Morristown, N.J., has an unsecured claim of $590,918

Oh…and I removed 6 figures from “Banga’s” Waterstone Bank earlier this year, closed my account and placed into a Five Star Bank.

mikey’s slow sometimes but not a complete fool with HIS money:)

Oh…and I removed 6 figures from “Banga’s” Waterstone Bank earlier this year, closed my account and placed into a Five Star Bank.
mikey’s slow sometimes but not a complete fool with HIS money:)

I bet you didn’t get a lollipop from Banga when you took away all your money, did you?

“This is exactly what our neighbor’s are doing. They can afford the payments but once it was obvious they payed too much, they decided to save the mortgage payment and live in the house until the sheriff makes them move. They stopped paying the mortgage over a year ago and just recently received the first NOD. Meanwhile, they bought a nice new travel trailer and paid cash! I’m actually slightly envious.”

Same thing with my neighbors. Husband and wife who are both employed attorneys who bought their house in 1999 when I bought mine. They moved out a few months ago with no evidence that they were attempting to sell or rent the house. When doing a search on Trulia a few days ago their house showed up as a pending foreclosure with a notice of default filed in July. I was also able to determine that they refinanced the house for more than twice what they paid so it looks like they walked away with about 300K cash. It also looks like they hadn’t made a mortage payment since the beginning of the year.

Examples like this seem to indicate that unemployment is probably only a small part of the problem.

Which is the biggest argument against legalizing marijuana.

Next thing you know, Cargill and ADM will be getting huge government ag subsidies, and they’ll start handing out bales of marijuana, along with the government cheese.

I think he meant pensions.

i loved the scene in the movie “district 9″ when the main character Wikus Van De Merwe is standing there inside the alien robot and you see him come to the realization that the events surrounding him are much bigger than him and his beautiful wife and decides to do the right thing.

i am hoping/praying for the day obama has his “distrcit 9 moment”.

right now though…obama is at the same point Wikus was when he smashed the alien in the back of the head and hijacked their spaceship to try and achieve his on selfish goals.

time will tell.

No spoilers pls Michael.

oops…sorry.

Yeah, that’s binks job. Right, bink?

i really do apolgize…i remember when someone on this blog revealed something about series finale of BSG…it kinda sucked (i still haven’t seen it yet so please no ellaboration).

i remember when someone on this blog revealed something about series finale of BSG…

That would be bink. Hence my post.
But he was sad, so we all forgave him. Besides, he likes frogs, a huge mark in his favor.

SPOILER ALERT:
It turns out that Wikus, shortly after he bashes the aliens head, notices that he’s all itchy on his bu*m. He’s developed piles. He has to drive the alien spaceship over to his mom’s house so she can make him a nice soothing ice-pack and he can sit gingerly upon her Barkalounger and watch Oprah and b*tch all day long until he recovers and can go back to fulfilling his selfish plans.

You heard it here first, people.

It’s almost time for my mother (a retired public school teacher) to announce that her pension and social security went up, but her health insurance went up even more. Mom’s been making this annual announcement for quite a few years.

+1 DD.

Some of you should try living on SS.

Social security wasn’t meant to be “lived on” it was meant as a safety net and supplement.

Apparently neither political party, just like in Japan, can handle the banks or what to do. So, we have to do this ourselves. And it’s not that hard.

Just stop spending.

Another good idea.

I don’t either, but when it goes on sale, it disappears. Either they have lots of cats or they are living on Fancy Feast.

Does SS still send out actual checks? Given it’s the government I suppose they would. But I have to assume there is an option to get paid electronically. In that case, state your address is a rented PO Box for $49 a year and live wherever you want while getting your checks deposited directly.

DinOR-
Maybe the SS FAQ’s would cover that one. I am assuming, until they put capital controls on the USD (which I am concerned about) I would say you’d get your $. Didn’t W make it ok to be an illegal, receive SS $, even if you move back to Mexico?

Question for you. Can you still take SS early (at 62) and pay it back at 65 in full, to start taking the higher amount? Did they change that loophole yet?

I saved the article that talked about it in my SS file, to be followed up later.

Awaiting, send article to me in email! HI!

DD
It was an article in a low level, general population monthly money rag. I think it might have been Kiplinger’s. I don’t have your email, btw.

It was an article in a low level, general population monthly money rag. I think it might have been Kiplinger’s. I don’t have your email, btw.ellisisland123ATyahooey.

Does SS still send out actual checks? Given it’s the government I suppose they would. But I have to assume there is an option to get paid electronically. In that case, state your address is a rented PO Box for $49 a year and live wherever you want while getting your checks deposited directly.

1.SS does issue live checks if that is recipient’s preference, and there is also the option for direct deposit.

2. They’ll take a PO Box as address for live checks, but there still has to be a street address associated with the beneficiary.

3. Beneficiary is required to report to SS any changes in address, especially if leaving the country. (This last item is a requirement for SSI, I don’t know if it applies to retirees drawing on their account.)

“Question for you. Can you still take SS early (at 62) and pay it back at 65 in full, to start taking the higher amount? Did they change that loophole yet?”

Search on “Withdrawal of Application” on SSA dot gov.

scdave,

That’s a bit of what I was getting at. I’ve lived most of my life ( with one foot in the Philippines ) and I’ve often heard of tales where the old G.I finally kicks the bucket, but the widow ‘neglects’ to mention that?

In one urban myth, the recipient would have had to have been 136 years old! As other posters have noted, it would be easy enough to set up a P.O box or use a relatives’ address, but that’s not me. Unlike our REIC’ster friends, I’d prefer not have my name associated w/ something under the table. ( And I’m no ALTAR BOY! )

Still, I can see a day where we’re so desperate for revenue they’ll say, “Oh, you can move overseas for as long as you’d like! When you move BACK to the States, your money will be here waiting for you!”

And I’m no ALTAR BOY! )

amen.

he he he he

edge,

As both a native Chicagoan ( and a Rep. to boot ) I didn’t want to be the one to have to say that? It’s like he’s just not ready or totally unable to graduate to a National scene or mindset.

If ‘this’ isn’t embarrassing, I don’t know what ‘is’?

That’s why Blago gave seniors free transit last year before his ouster and why property taxes here have at least two separate circuit breaker provisions for seniors.

Do you look old for your age?

for seniors.

Do you look old for your age?

thanks for the giggle!

This is what happens when your parents have you at an old(er) age. You get to grow up surrounded by old folks and become privy to every single issue they obsess about.

Coupons, prescriptions, taxes, CD rates, service fees…YUCK!

Nope, just raised in towns that were really focused on retirees. So not being raised in big cities where the massive populations would detract from one particular group, just all lumped in together, you might have missed this observation. I understand that as I have lived in both major metropolissss and small towns. And living in the resort towns you see alot, and I mean alot of senior retirees. Big emphasis on what to do when you retire around here. I see wealthy and I see very poor seniors.

Mom was young. They live longer these days, or haven’t you noticed? !!! Get ready cause ready or not.. the 90yr olds are around and lots of em.

“Coupons, prescriptions………YUCK!”

You forgot:

-The morning meetings at McDonalds of the “Rusty Zipper Club”

-Sunday breakfast at Denny’s, and the trouble of finding your Crown Vic in a sea of Crown Vics in the parking lot afterwards.

-Endless testimonials to Lima Beans.

-The “I can remember when that wasn’t there” flashbacks.

“safety net” = hammock.

..because the elite don’t want them to riot before the middle and upper middle class have been relieved of all savings and wealth.

Rephrase

Providing the mechanism by which trillions of dollars are misallocated, market distortions are created by massive speculation and skimming off billions isn’t a service?

Providing the mechanism by which trillions of dollars are misallocated, market distortions are created by massive speculation and skimming off billions isn’t a service?

Al, Accurately written.

So only jobs where people make stuff in a factory somewhere constitiutes a real job. OK fine.

Where do you think the money comes to build the factory where your precious “workers” make the things? And your worker bees have a car/truck to get to work right? Where does the money to finance the car/truck come from (and yes I know you probably buy your car with cash, 90% of the public doesn’t)? Where do you think the money comes from to build the supply chain that distributes the things made by your precious workers…the warehouses, the distribution centers, the planes, trains and trucks that transport all the goods made by your “real workers” and the retail centers that sell those goods to the public? And what about the money needed to build the power plants, coal plants, gas refineries that supply the energy for the whole system to function?

All that money just falls from the sky right?

Without capital markets which you love to hate, there would be nothing.

I don’t hate capital markets. When capital markets provide funding to grow businesses and do all the things you mention, they’re great. Capital markets/banking, etc. are meant to serve industry. But that’s not what we have now. Look more closely at what’s really going on and less so at the text book answer.

FWIW - all of these funds could come from profits and/or funds provided by the company founders/employees, and not from capital markets, could they not?

Realistically I know that’s not really feasible, and would be a hindrance to efficient capitalism, but nevertheless it is possible in principle. Our society could function with zero borrowing and zero banking.

Looks like my post got eaten, though will probably show up shortly after I hit send on this one,

Anyways, I don’t hate capital markets when they do all the things you pointed out Eddie. They should function to serve industry. That’s not what they’re doing now. You have a good grasp of the text book answer of why capital markets exist, but not of the current reality.

packman,

Great point. My father/godfather ran their business ( Hillgrove Fabricators in Western Springs, IL ) like that for years! So did nearly all of the old Germans and Beau-hocks I worked for in HS.

The difference was, they HAD the capital to acquire RE, make expansions etc. and would ‘work’ the bank for the best possible terms! ‘Now’ ( since we know just having a-c-c-e-s-s to capital is a slam dunk money machine ) just look at the builders, it’s all about how you “play the leverage” ( not how you run your business )

Nice try Eddie. Banks allocated trillions of dollars around the world JUST FINE before this bubble blew up. I guess they earned their bonuses back in 1979 or so.

But since the bubble… I’ll use my example from a few days ago. J6P buys a house for 10x his income. Mortgage broker underwrites the mortgage at 20x their reserves (leverage). Megabank buys the mortgage at 30x their reserves (more leverage). AIG insures the mortgage at 20x reserves (leverage again.)

So, for every ONE dollar that J6P earns at an honest living, those bankers created $120,000 dollars of possible money, and took their bonuses from that fake $120,000. You call that a “service?” J6P can get better service in any red light district.

before this bubble blew up

Thank you Ox. Days gone by, before wally world etc, monopolies, local business ran on their profits, and what it did for around the community, local banks and all.

Oxide,

Your example has been happening well before the bubble. Local bank takes in $1000 as deposit pays 3% interest. Keep $50 as reserves, lends out $9500 at 8%. Rinse repeat. Only thing that happened during the bubble was the scale of it all.

And in 1979 capital was allocated inefficiently. Take a very simple example. Retail investors. To buy or sell stocks cost 1000% more than it does today adjusted for inflation. The fact I can buy and sell stocks for $7 today online in 10 seconds is a vast improvement over having to call a broker, place and order and hope it gets executed sometime that day.

Technology certainly has a lot to do with that. But so does the fact that capital markets today are so mcuh more open. I can trade on any exchange in the world today. I can trade in pretty much any currency. I can buy and sell options on pretty much anything I want. Stocks, metals, indexes. I can trade the weather if I want. And millions of people doing just that is part of the efficient allocation of capital that was unheard of 20 years ago.

I can’t remember the last time I was in an actual bank. Everyt financial transaction I make is elecronic. Would you prefer we go back to 1979 where I had to physically stand in line and cash a check? How fun! Or better yet go back to the mid 1970s where the NYSE had to close on Wednesdays to catch up on the paperwork created on Monday and Tuesday. Boy oh boy, imagine the effificeny then.

Oh and I hear movies used to cost a nickel back in the good old days too.

Again, nice try. It wasn’t just the “scale.” They took something solid, and made it much bigger with the same amount of substance. They only way is to blow air in the middle. Why do you think they call it a BUBBLE, Einstein?

$50 as reserves, lends out $9500 at 8%.

You mean, the bank lent out $9500 at 8% to people who were able to pay it back. And the bank looked at EVERYTHING to make damn sure you could pay that $9500 back, before they let go of it. And there was usually collateral. And if it the loan were a house at $95000, the bank demanded 20% down too. The good old days.

What happens now?

The mortgage broker didn’t bother to look at J6P’s income. Nor did the mortgage broker bother with making sure the collateral matched up with the loan — ask the honest appraisers on HBB. Demand 20% down? HAHAHAHAHA oh my aching kidneys, we all know what happened to that. Mort broker didn’t care; he was too busy collecting his juicy fee.

When Megabank bought the loan, they didn’t bother to look at J6P either, because some high-school dropout at corrupt Moody’s had stamped “AAA” on it without looking. Moody’s didn’t care; didn’t they have some physicists in white coats telling them it was okay? Megabank didn’t care either; he was spending his bonus at Tiffany’s on the way home from work. Ditto for AIG. They probably figured on a bailout from the beginning.

Greed broke one link, then another, and another, all the way up the entire rotting food chain.

And the technology is BS too. Does it matter how fast, or how fancy, or which currency or how cheap your trade fee is? As a rule, garbage in, garbage out has stood for time memorial. They used every single technological device, except for the simple BS detector.

What do I need with a Cray? My BS detector went off 5 years ago just from looking at those smiling couples in the newspaper ads, humping at the happenin’ club and painting the walls of their condo HGTV Brown.

And to answer more on the technology: maybe that’s what we humans really need: LESS technology. Is it so bad to have to stand in line to cash a check? And back in the day, when your wages resulted in a physical pile of bills, you thought very carefully before handing those bills over, because you were literally watching your money leave you. Nowadays, it’s a number in a checkbook, or a number on Quicken. Much easier to spend it then.

As I said above, retail and credit cards take your money without giving you time to reconsider. I suspect that several recessions were prevented by the LACK of technology — captains of industry were forced to stand in line, or wait for the snail mail or the page boy on the floor of the NYSE. In the end, they had time to reconsider, or they didn’t have the time or energy to do something stupid.

Stupid transactions will always outpace smart ones, and a faster pace overall means more stupid transactions overall, not to mention that stupid transacations are for more dollars than smart transactions: e.g. compare the idiot strawberry picker paying $750K, to the shrewed HBBer waiting for $380K.

They don’t rot. Quite the contrary. They get
- welfare payments
- medicaid
- food stamps
- WIC
- Section 8 housing
- subsidized utilities

Yeah they’re suffering and need some help ASAP.

It was above your head, Eddie.

Well, yeah, but there’s the stigma! lol

Yeah, that’s why there are so many homeless people. The gov’t just hands out money to everyone.

The homeless don’t get anything due to no address.

They can try to get into shelters, but do not get any of the above ‘gimmees’.

The homeless choose to be so. If they took time to apply for the govt benefits. ON GA’s state website there is even a neat little questonaire. Answer a few simple questions and you’ll know to the dollar how much free money you’re eligible for. It couldn’t be any easier.

GA and the southeast get the majority of the tax welfare pie from all taxpayers in the US. Thanks for confirming that tidbit.
Confirms that the rest of us are paying for you and your states welfare.

“The homeless choose to be so. If they took time to apply for the govt benefits. ON GA’s state website there is even a neat little questonaire.”

I’m going to steal Polly’s line. Are you on drugs, Eddie? Most homeless have severe mental problems. They didn’t choose their position, they are afflicted. The idea that they are web savvy, much less have handy computer access, is hysterical.

The homeless choose to be so. If they took time to apply for the govt benefits. ON GA’s state website there is even a neat little questonaire. Answer a few simple questions and you’ll know to the dollar how much free money you’re eligible for. It couldn’t be any easier.

Maybe someday you’ll be in a position to need welfare and you can report back to us how terribly easy the process was.

How do you know for a fact that the homeless choose to be so? Does that include the mentally ill who are out on the street due to so many institutions closing? And of course, when they’re non-medicated they’re especially able to make appropriate decisions about their living arrangements.

Somebody asked you yesterday if you were on drugs. I don’t think you’re a druggie, but I’m getting the idea you’re not even out of college yet.

No actually that started in SF.

No actually that started in SF.

Can you spell reagan? 1970s?
And still the stats prove out my above post.

“Most homeless have severe mental problems. They didn’t choose their position, they are afflicted. The idea that they are web savvy, much less have handy computer access, is hysterical.”

Well said, Grizzly…

Eddie wrote:

The homeless choose to be so. If they took time to apply for the govt benefits. ON GA’s state website there is even a neat little questonaire. Answer a few simple questions and you’ll know to the dollar how much free money you’re eligible for. It couldn’t be any easier.

The homeless checking out GA’s website and filling out a questionnaire? The thought that they have a) access to a computer, and b) are web savvy, is indeed hysterical. Eddie seems like a sharp enough fellow, but to state the above suggests that Eddie is either in a heavily insulated Ivory Tower, or a troll.

I’m not saying the SS-crowd couldn’t use the money; sure, those that are poor clearly could. I’m just saying that giving money to the only group that already has a very dependable monthly check and improving buying power strikes me as strange policy.

Helping those without dependable income, or those with declining buying power would strike me as more sensible policy.

The ones I see are shopping the dollar store and very frugally at that, so I dont’ see their buying power improving. Come out here and lets look together!

You don’t get wealthy spending all your money.

Prime,

FWIW ( “I” get it )

Besides, what’s wrong w/ shopping at the Dollar Store? My wife and I do it all the time! Especially for toothpaste, liquid shop, cleanser etc. Have you seen their earnings?

DD, their buyer power IS increasing. Sure, it sucks that they have to buy tuna at the dollar store, but with a $10 bill they now they can buy 13 cans of tuna instead of 11.

I agree it still sucks.

but with a $10 bill they now they can buy 13 cans of tuna instead of 11.

Nope. they can still only buy 1 can per $1.oo.
Just did it myself the other day.
1 for 1.

Nothing more.

59 cents when on ad as a loss leader at thyemajor chains. Stock up when the time is right!

We do.

Did that at Vons on Tuesday.
$1.00 per can.
With your coupon and membership.

FWIW ( “I” get it )

Besides, what’s wrong w/ shopping at the Dollar Store?

Dinor, did anyone say anything at all was wrong with shopping at the dollar stores, huh, did anyone, ? Nope, didn’t say it, didn’t infer it. And “I” get it, but we were talking about poor SS seniors, not the other ones.
Obtuse-ness

What deflation?

RE? Yeah that helps the poor a whole lot.

Everything else, especially necessities? I ain’t seen it.

I live in the 4th largest city in the nation and let me tell you, there is NO DEFLATION here outside of RE and even that’s meaningless as it’s nowhere near the price levels it was 5 years ago.

Wait, I take that back, I’m seeing plenty of WAGE deflation.

yensoy,

Not sure what you’re driving at there but I’ll gather you mean all the 20-something HS drop-outs that made $300k a year as mortgage brokers?

“The firm yesterday reported second-quarter profits of $3.4 billion, and if it continues with the same success rate as the first half of 2009, employees would share a record bonus pool come year-end.

If the estimations materialize, Fortune points out, “The average Goldman worker could end up taking home more than 10 times the typical American family’s income.” The average employee would finish the year with approximately $773,000, more than doubling the $363,000 they took home in 2008 and trumping the $662,000 they made in 2007. Even if Goldman doesn’t end up with a record-setting year, the pay scale is seen as a bit of a shock in light of the current economy”

In other words, as was stated above, not only execs make a lot money at GS. And I serioulsy doubt anyone at GS is a high school dropout.

I’d guess that the medians (GS vs rest of us) aren’t as far apart as the averages.

Hmmm how to convince the middle and lower class of American people to revolt against wall street.

And people complain about TT Timmy. Hanky Panky was 10 times worse.

Dino: A lot of traders were raking in big bucks and continue to do so. They made risky bets, got compensated on the upside and we hold the bag on the downside. These folks aren’t execs so the salary caps won’t apply to them.

You are forgetting, he “never had $EX with that woman.” The dress remained on although slick Willie could have given her the meat stick with the dress on.

Sounds like someones jealous.

someones jealous.

snap snap, headroll.

Hear from many friends who love it there.

An immaculate 2000 E-430….

Yawn…….

Frugality is a choice. The profligate MEW slaves proclaiming their new religion is nothing more than a new slavery. They have no choice.

Another data point: The City of Tucson’s Environmental Services director spoke to my neighborhood association on Tuesday. Seems that there’s a lot less revenue to be made from recycling. City’s seeing fewer recycling bins being put out on trash/recycling day.

Our association president said that this is because people are re-using things that they might have recycled in the past.

I’m prepping to move, and I’ve been donating random pieces of furniture and kitchen stuff. I’m glad my old stuff is finding a new home.

I’m prepping to move, and I’ve been donating random pieces of furniture and kitchen stuff.

Oh, good on ya. Waste is bad.

Have your taxes gone up? Almost ALL of the new spending is coming from new issuance of debt. It is the money of future taxpayers.

You’re not even married and getting that from a guy?? RUN, FAST!

Houses and partners do tend to come and go.

He really thinks he’s helping me. Then I remind him of the long list of things that need fixed on his house, and he “gets it” - for the time being.

I don’t even go into the math of it.

The one good idea he’s come up with is for him to buy another house (as an investment) and rent it to me.
Now that would be a win/win: I’d be in a nicer place, and he’d have a trouble free reliable tenant.

Just don’t play NWA too loud.

What I hear from signicant other is why we aren’t buying an investment home or two. A lot of our friends have. I keep saying that prices keep dropping.

“What I hear from signicant other is why we aren’t buying an investment home or two.”

I actually had the idea in my head that I wanted an investment property, before finding the HBB. My wife talked me out of it, not because she knew anything about bubbles, but because she didn’t want the headache of being a LL.

Just don’t play NWA too loud.

Yeah, our musical paths do tend to diverge, but then
cross when it comes to the blues and country music. Although he will put on the local college station when it plays old school disco, maybe ’cause he likes to watch me shake it.

lol

(TMI?)

My wife talked me out of it, not because she knew anything about bubbles, but because she didn’t want the headache of being a LL.

Well, Al, you obviously got a keeper. You just go march right up to her and give her a hearty smack on the bum and say ‘That’s from Olygal, a token of approval for my precious heifer and her genious pretty little head.’

She’ll like that a lot, I’m sure. Really—you can believe me on this. Really.

“Burn Rubber” and all those?
Or reaching back to Gloria Gaynor?
Move the furniture.

All the way back to Gloria…

move the furniture and roll up the rug -

Must be the music

“You just go march right up to her and give her a hearty smack on the bum and say ‘That’s from Olygal,…”

Hmmm. Me and the couch haven’t been spending much time together recently, so yah, I’ll do it!

Hmmm. Me and the couch haven’t been spending much time together recently, so yah, I’ll do it!

And the less you earn, the less taxes you pay. Fed income tax is pretty much the same everywhere.

OTOH, there were the New Orleans whiners on the news today, whining about not getting FEMA benefits……..

“I still didn’t get no FEMA money. I voted for Obama because I wanted change…..”

I guess “change” means different things to different people.

“Change” to me meant a change in the country’s leadership.

To this guy, “change” meant “cash”.

Tell me about it. I haven’t been back to the Bay area since 1987, (born there and moved in ‘73) but I still remember not taking anything but a suit (for church) and shorts and a light windbreaker. (It’s California don’t you know) had to borrow my brother’s jeans on our boat trip around Alcatraz.
Wasn’t it Frank Zappa who moved to CA and gave away all of their winter coats only to have to go out and buy them all over again?
We went out in August and i didn’t see any bikinis. I saw a lot of wetsuits on the surfers though. Cold weather and cold water.

As a side note, my Dad used to work for BART and got laid off and at the time my Mother inherited a home in VA. we ended up moving to Danville VA because my Father got a job working on the Metro in Washington DC and we lived in VA.
Long story short, by the time my Dad died their house in Danville VA was worth bubkas (paid off though) Meanwhile my Mother always wanted to buy a row house in San Francisco (like my godparents) but they could never get the down payment together. Turns out later my Dad told her that my godparents (who owned a drycleaner) offered to give them the down payment, but my Dad refused without asking my Mom’s opinion.
Houses back then , 1972, were around $30-40K. How much are they worth today? PLus my older brother and sis could have gone to a CA state college tuition free! Oh well.

Turns out later my Dad told her that my godparents (who owned a drycleaner) offered to give them the down payment, but my Dad refused without asking my Mom’s opinion.

Good thing he was already dead, and therefore not in a position to be killed.

, 1972, were around $30-40K.

Yep. those really neat old victorian houses on that one great street? were $70k in 1973.
dang

Sure. I only got so many phone-books, after all, and body disposal can be a real b*tch. All those teeth and briefcases and stuff….

Friends help you move.

Good friends help you move bodies.

You speak truth, packman.

You know, last month I was thinking about killing someone, (a developer, by the way, and they deserved it, so it’s okay) but then I realized that he is twice as big as me, so it’d be a poser firstly portioning him out, and then stuffing him in my little car and hauling him away. Besides, he might leak all over, worse than moss specimens or coffee-grounds, which is what’s sprinkled all over in there at this time.
The complications continue to build: most of the spots where the ground is soft enough for me to dig a hole in are wetlands. The irony would just be delightfully astounding. And I love irony, you know.
But think of the decomp! Icky! Nasty for salmonids and frogs!
Give a hoot! Don’t pollute!

*hoots like an owl and spins head around *

Sigh. Anyway. That’s why that guy is still breathing right now.

That’s why that guy is still breathing right now.

Until next month, at least, when it’ll have been raining for a few weeks and the ground will be nice and soft and diggable everywhere…

Oly, I thought decomp was actually _good_ for the soil… That might change your math. More research required!

Oly, I thought decomp was actually _good_ for the soil… That might change your math. More research required!

Let’s apply for a research grant! I know I’m willing.

Let’s apply for a research grant! I know I’m willing.

Then we can wear white lab coats around and look wise, and drink coffee and gossip and boss unpaid interns and spin on our chairs!
…Just like now, except I bet I’ll get paid LOTS more.

Ooooh, I can’t wait.

The complications continue to build: most of the spots where the ground is soft enough for me to dig a hole in are wetlands. The irony would just be delightfully astounding. And I love irony, you know.
But think of the decomp! Icky! Nasty for salmonids and frogs!
Give a hoot! Don’t pollute!

You know Oly, I saw a show on forensics, and found out there’s a lab where they let bodies decompose in a field, to teach investigators the various clues to look for. BUT - humans don’t sprout growth as they decay, interestingly enough. A dead human actually kills the ground around it, leaving a dead black stain on the ground for many months, if not longer. I wonder if that’s due to the toxins or preservatives or medicines we ingest.

I found it an interesting data point.

Moss specimens?

Piqued my curiosity with that one, Oly.

And coffee grounds - ugh. I hate when you go to nonchalantly flip them out in the trash can, but it doesn’t quite make it. A big mess, that.

W/regards to body disposal - google “wicking” and “spontaneous combustion”. Hook up a good steam generator and maybe get some energy production tax credits.

Well, I got a bunch of phone-books, and that’s even worse.

We always had massive amounts of firecrackers. Those would come in handy to scare off the city slickers.

I’m originally from the Knoxville area. They’ve massively renovated the downtown area to where it smacks of SF, Sushi restaurants, wine bars, microbreweries, fancy lofts, grungy clubs, even a brit style pub. Its actually a kind of nice compact city with its own orchestra, art museum, and a number of other parks and so forth. It was a dump when I was a kid. Now its pretty nice. Only problem is that as soon as you get out of the city it turns into suburban sprawl from hell. But… its a very reasonable place to live. You can get a place in the sticks only 20 minutes from town. Might want to move fast though. Just like everywhere else in the South practically every other person from NJ or NY is moving in for their retirement paradises on the lake.

Please please please - don’t get caught by the howmuchamonth trap!

If you’re refi-ing into a new 30-year loan from an existing loan that’s already been paid for 10 years - and you’re only saving $66 a month - run, don’t walk, away. Unless your loan is something like a $30,000 loan or something and you’re going from $130 a month to $67 a month.

You’ll thank me in 20 years.

As a point of reference - I recently refinanced our mortgage. I was only 2.5 years in, and saved about $150 a month, but I still struggled with the decision.

operators are standing by so I need to act now.

I agree with Jon. Michael, refinance to a 15-year loan and you’ll get a much better interest rate. Pay the damned thing off.

That to me seems like the deal maker. Make sure your numbers are right, that there aren’t any prepayment penalties, that you are comfortable of the possible recourse-ness of the loan, and you should be good to go.

Passy!

Oly, I thought you were bout to TESTIFY!
Praise be.

Hahahah! And I just now barely posted a Bible-respectin’ post up above in response to jetson-boy’s ‘I- R- A- Hick’ post.

Why, maybe I AM getting ready to testify, and don’t even know it!

Edges away from Olygal,
looks innocent,
and scans the blue sky for lightning bolts.

Edges away from Olygal,
looks innocent,
and scans the blue sky for lightning bolts.

Yeah, whatEVer. I bet you’re totally crispy and still smoking slightly from YOUR last wickedness and resultant lightning bolt.
…About 10 whole minutes ago.
Hahahahaah!

… or am I coyote ugly?

In Texas insurance companies did have to pay out in a lot of mold claims that were in many cases due to shoddy workmanship.

Oh, I’ll still own something with four wheels, it’s just going to get much better mileage, and be much cheaper. Riding in the rain sucks.

It’s a serious design flaw.

In me, I mean. Not the bicycle.

“It’s a serious design flaw.”

ROTFLMAS

Was that a Freudian slip or did your chain break or something ?

I read that too.
I just hope the kid is fine and dandy, and snickering in a bush somewhere about all the consternation he caused.
And THEN I hope the kid gets hauled out of the bush and has his *ss spanked really really hard and his allowance taken away for a zillion years, for causing such consternation.

That’s how I hope this story ends.

He was never on board the balloon. They found him safe and sound.

He was never on board the balloon. They found him safe and sound.

Then bring on the beatings!
Of everybody involved—just in case.

Tastes very similar to frog legs….

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

*wild scream of horror! *

I’ll take a German girl and her well made hassenpfeffer over a gator any day of the week.

Why not combine the two? Into one living breathing mostly-human being who:
– has big white teeth.
– superlative cooking/brewing skills.
– likes to roll in the mud.
– thinks chasing people in the dark is funny, whether or not they get away. That’s good, clean fun!
– believes that Chihuahuas look like pretty good hors de oeuvres, although maybe for a less-formal gathering, since they’d splash out the finger-bowls.
– owns a number of pretty white lace caps inherited from great-aunt Augusta Wilhelmina.

A compelling argument, I should think.
That’s multi-tasking at its very finest.

Sure, why not…as long as I’m not the one that has to hurt the bunnies Oly.

I don’t want to hurt the bunnies, either. I raised a bunch of bunnies as a lass. Also bunnies are adorable, and I’m a big fan of adorableness. But this position conflicts with my strong desire to eat hassenpfeffer while I’m wearing a lace cap and an starchy apron and maybe yodeling or something.

Sigh. My life is one big conflict between my stomach and my spiritual desire to be enlightened and not think only about eating things.
So far, it’s Spirit: 0 and Stomach: Twenty zillion.

German check
dumplings check
hassenpheffer check
yodels check
lace caps check
starchy apron check

Oly, great news. So far you’re running a close tie with Rachael Ann, the wayward little Amish girl. She’s closer but did you buy that little fishing boat yet ?

Fish and rain!
Fish and rain!
I love Fish and rain!

…Well, I love rain, anyway. I know that part for sure.
I don’t know if I love fishing, because I’ve never really tried it hard, and never on the salty sea in any case, and I’ve never had a little boat before to play with.
But I will forthwith, and do you know why? because nobody’s buying boats hereabouts, that’s why. I mean, freakin’ nobody, and I live in a very boating town.

Bargains, bargains, hooray! I was gonna buy one last week, I got so excited, and then it started raining and already the price has gone down on craigslist…

It’s a struggle, but I’m going to exhibit patience.

Easily excitable…triple check there.

ha ha ha

Easily excitable…triple check there.

You!
That’s not on my alligator/German maiden hybrid list.
Therefore I assume you’re talking about YOUR checklist, Mr. “I’m-Going-To-Fall-Off-The-Roof-By-Accident-Tonight-Whilst-Chasing-Some-Bats-And-Playing-With-Halloween-Decorations-Man”.

And we alllll know who I’m talking about, here.

Has temper…erases 3 good checks. Starts over…

huh ?