Bits Bucket For October 25, 2009
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum.
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here. Please visit the HBB Forum.
Fair Game ~ NYT
If Lenders Say ‘The Dog Ate Your Mortgage’
October 24, 2009
FOR decades, when troubled homeowners and banks battled over delinquent mortgages, it wasn’t a contest. Homes went into foreclosure, and lenders took control of the property.
On top of that, courts rubber-stamped the array of foreclosure charges that lenders heaped onto borrowers and took banks at their word when the lenders said they owned the mortgage notes underlying troubled properties.
In other words, with lenders in the driver’s seat, borrowers were run over, more often than not. Of course, errant borrowers hardly deserve sympathy from bankers or anyone else, and banks are well within their rights to try to protect their financial interests.
But if our current financial crisis has taught us anything, it is that many borrowers entered into mortgage agreements without a clear understanding of the debt they were incurring. And banks often lacked a clear understanding of whether all those borrowers could really repay their loans.
Even so, banks and borrowers still do battle over foreclosures on an unlevel playing field that exists in far too many courtrooms. But some judges are starting to scrutinize the rules-don’t-matter methods used by lenders and their lawyers in the recent foreclosure wave. On occasion, lenders are even getting slapped around a bit.
One surprising smackdown occurred on Oct. 9 in federal bankruptcy court in the Southern District of New York. Ruling that a lender, PHH Mortgage, hadn’t proved its claim to a delinquent borrower’s home in White Plains, Judge Robert D. Drain wiped out a $461,263 mortgage debt on the property. That’s right: the mortgage debt disappeared, via a court order.
So the ruling may put a new dynamic in play in the foreclosure mess: If the lender can’t come forward with proof of ownership, and judges don’t look kindly on that, then borrowers may have a stronger hand to play in court and, apparently, may even be able to stay in their homes mortgage-free.
So who owns the mortgage that’s been collaterized, sliced&diced, its tranches scattered all over the globe? The loan document itself imay be tucked inside a vault somewhere but just who is it that can claim ownership to that document?
“So who owns the mortgage…”
Why does it even matter, so long as the bad paper is contained in a vault at Megabank, Inc or the Fed? It appears to me that thanks to the magic of top-down financial engineering, Uncle Sam now owns the mortgage.
“thanks to the magic of top-down financial engineering, Uncle Sam now owns the mortgage.”
And Uncle Sam is such a generous, doting old uncle, that he really doesn’t care whether you ever pay him back or not.
“So the ruling may put a new dynamic in play in the foreclosure mess: If the lender can’t come foreward with proof of ownership, and the judges don’t look kindly on that, then borrowers may have a stronger hand to play in court and, apparantly, may even be able to stay in their homes mortgage-
free.”
I am visualizing long lines of debt-people encircling courthouses…
Very interesting- raises tons of questions! Who writes off that loss? The banks? Calpers? Iceland? What would something like this do to the the whole CDO business if it becomes more common? Will it force banks to hold the notes, forcing even more stringent loan requirements? We all know what THAT would do to home prices!! Seems as though the CAT 3 tsunami mat be kicking up a couple notches… definitely a good time to……wait!
We’ve also discussed “MERS”, the system whereby mortgage holders bypass registering the mortgages/notes with the county registrar. Trouble is that this has been shown in court to not protect the note holder in some cases….
Sounds awsome, doesn’t it?
“We all know what THAT would do to home prices!!”
The risk of further home price declines is contained.
“…One surprising smackdown occurred on Oct. 9 in federal bankruptcy court in the Southern District of New York. Ruling that a lender, PHH Mortgage, hadn’t proved its claim to a delinquent borrower’s home in White Plains, Judge Robert D. Drain wiped out a $461,263 mortgage debt on the property.”
10 to 1:
My bet is that the “Judge” had a daughter/son/nephew/grandson that had an “underwater” PHH Mortgage initiated loan.
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
Hmm, this may cause the whole mess to attempt another leg down to reach some sort of real bottom. This is the problem to begin with: a false bottom by gov’t/financial industry actions. Banks are trying to dribble these properties on the market and ultimately reduce the write down losses. They really won’t be able to do that. What this may do is to cause many underwater home owners to declare bankruptcy and attempt to get out from under without paying anything. Free houses.
This will be a real show!
Roidy
P.S. I didn’t get a free house. I didn’t get anything but a debt by gov’t bailout that I had nothing to do with and didn’t cause.
But we all got something very important out of this. We got credibility. I don’t know of anybody else around me that can say the same thing. In 2005, 2006 and 2007 I stood up to their criticism, skepticism and ridicule. By the end of 2008 the people around me had been proven to be just so many rose-colored fools. I was left with a credibility that they can not beg, borrow or steal. I can read the resentment on many of the faces around me. There are definitely things more important than money. Respecting yourself is one of them.
“…By the end of 2008 the people around me had been proven to be just so many rose-colored fools”
Lenders = “TrueDeceiver’s ™”
Buyers = “TrueBeliever’s™”
Folks who rented: “Bitter”
‘Folks who rented: “Bitter”’
Bankers who collude to fix prices = criminals.
Renters and buyers of artificially inflated real estate = victims.
Small correction Mr. Bear:
Bankers who collude to fix prices = “wealthy” criminals.
“Judge” had a daughter/son/nephew/grandson ?
My thoughts exactly…I also think that this has no chance of standing on appeal…Its one thing to make a judgement in a court order that says you cannot collect until you provide the paperwork its quite another to just wipe it out…The loan will likely remain on the property although they may not be making payments..Still not a bad deal if you can get it…
Interesting question, if the bank can’t prove the note exists, how can it be wiped out?
Interesting question, if the bank can’t prove the note exists, how can it be wiped out? I think a good analogy would be accepting a counterfeit bill in payment for a debt. Whatever records the bank has, that cannot be used in court to collect on a mortgage, is like a counterfeit bill, worthless to the holder once the counterfeit is discovered.
“if the bank can’t prove the note exists, how can it be wiped out?”
Uh, becuz it doesn’t exist?
it’s getting metaphysical in here…
seems like all the judge could do is dismiss the case without prejudice for failure to state a claim, and the bank would be able to bring it again if they ever got the paperwork together. But it would still be a cloud on the title, I’d think, and make it hard to convey the property the next time around.
I was rather thinking the same thing Montana.
Another question:
What happens to credit card customers if say Discover gets bailed out on its bad debt?
Can they sell a debt to a collection agency that has been paid off?
Looks like that will be the next ruling. Credit card customers walking on the their debts and not getting sued.
“Money for nothing and houses for free”
I am guessing this will be repealed and overturned. If this ruling stays it will create havoc in our country.
Is it too late to buy a home and immediately stop making payments, in the hopes that you will somehow get qualified to stay put with the wave of other households claiming the bank has no right to evict occupants whose mortgages are delinquent?
“If this ruling stays it will create havoc in our country.”
Yeah, by cracky, I’m sure glad free money wasn’t handed out to Megabank, because that would have created havoc in our country. I’m sure glad AIG and Goldman Sucks didn’t get rewarded for their fraud and carelessness, because that would have created havoc in our country.
Why is it, when some benefit might accrue to the people as result of fraud and carelessness, it “would create havoc in our country”, but when Megabank is benefitted, it creates order?
And don’t we have havoc now?
And don’t we have havoc now? Try to ignore the havoc around us, and maybe it won’t hurt so bad.
Why is it, when some benefit might accrue to the people as result of fraud and carelessness, it “would create havoc in our country”, but when Megabank is benefitted, it creates order?
And don’t we have havoc now?
I am not saying giving money to Mega banks was right. It was wrong no question about it. But how giving free houses makes the situation any better. Two wrongs don’t make a right. This strategy will doom the country for sure.
Because life is unfair. Deal with it.
Eddie’s back, and he’s mad. (I like it!)
You got mad from that?
‘Deal with it’ seemed a little hostile. Maybe I’m reading too much into it…maybe you’re just terse? How about:
Eddie’s back. And he’s terse!
Alpha, that’s funny stuff.
Seems to me if I’m an owner with no equity this is going to get me to stop making payments and just gamble that I get the mortgage written off as well. Much better odds than the lottery.
That’s what I’d do if I were an FB who belived the lender was “the bad guy” who tried to “trick” me into getting a loan I couldn’t afford.
Capmark Financial May File for Bankruptcy
October 24, 2009
The Capmark Financial Group, the big commercial real estate finance company cobbled together from pieces of GMAC, may file for bankruptcy as soon as this weekend, a person briefed on the matter told DealBook on Saturday.
If that happens, the move would be unsurprising: Capmark warned last month that it might seek Chapter 11 protection after it reported a $1.62 billion quarterly loss.
Last month, the company agreed to sell its mortgage loan and servicing business to Warren E. Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway and Leucadia National for as much as $490 million. That agreement carried a 60-day expiration date, or around Nov. 2 — unless Capmark filed for bankruptcy, which would give it another 60 days to complete the sale.
The company is only the latest to fall victim to continued trouble in the commercial real estate market, which many analysts have said will continue to deteriorate. Many small banks have collapsed this year under the weight of commercial loans.
Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, Goldman Sachs Capital Partners, Five Mile Capital and Dune Capital bought GMAC’s commercial real estate businesses in 2006 for about $1.5 billion, with GMAC retaining a 25 percent stake in the operation. K.K.R. has already written down the value of its Capmark investment to zero.
No worries — I am quite sure top-down financial engineering by the Fed and Megabank, Inc have the Capmark situation peremptorily contained (yawn…).
They are now discussing their plan code-named BOHICA.
Another CRE story
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20091025/ARTICLE/910251027/2055/NEWS?Title=New-wave-of-commercial-foreclosures-looms
“Last month, the company agreed to sell its mortgage loan and servicing business to Warren E. Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway”
“…That agreement carried a 60-day expiration date, or around Nov. 2 — unless Capmark filed for bankruptcy, which would give it another 60 days to complete the sale.”
10 to 1:
Mr. Buffett is “pressuring” them to hurry up and close the deal! He would never be patient enough to let this “deal-of-a-lifetime” slip away.
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
(Hwy pours his 1st cup of joe)
There was another eviction in my apartment building. It’s clear that whoever lived there just walked out. The notice went up after the building people had already been in the apartment. Judging from the posted notice I could tell that this person was paying slightly less than us (even after our 15% reduction in 2009).
I think that makes our position at our next renewal even stronger. In 2006 landlords could take a, “we don’t care if you renew” attitude because vacancies were so low. Vacancies have risen. Evictions appear to have skyrocketed. In spring I saw 3 eviction notices posted. That was just after we renewed our lease. This was just on the first 3 floors with a total of about 20 apartments. I think I will be going after another 10 - 15 percent deduction next spring or we will move on. The tide has turned and the landlords are now playing defense. Boo-hoo. I guess that rent/own ratio just keeps moving down further and further.
I find myself often thinking about what would have happened if we had bought in 2006. I get a chill up my spine and then a smile on my face. They kept telling me, “it’s different here”. And they were right. Man, were they right.
I get that same feeling as I watch Kaliforeneeuh’s economy implode and realize I’m a just a 30 notice from my next job, if necessary.
30 “day” notice, getting more coffee….
My daughter who lives in LA had the landlord raise the rent on her one bedroom. He wasn’t willing to negotiate so she found a two bedroom (within two miles) just as nice for the same price plus it had a small yard. The other tenant also gave notice but has to pay a months rent (need to give a one month notice). He doesn’t care as he’ll just hold the keys until the very last day. Now the owner will have to find quality tenants as these two had been there for five years with yearly increases in rent but had steady employment.
Glad to hear about your daughter’s good news.
Is this a roommate you’re talking about, or a separate renter who lived in the same building as your daughter?
A few questions…
Which neighborhood are you in?
Is your building rent stabilized?
Do the evictions appear to be for market rate apartments?
Are the people being evicted long time tenants or recent arrivals?
Here in Astoria, I’m seeing what seems an increase in U-hauls at the end of the month, and a bit different for this time of year. Wondering how many of the newbies are being forced out v. longer term tenants, etc.
“A few questions…
Which neighborhood are you in?
Is your building rent stabilized?
Do the evictions appear to be for market rate apartments?
Are the people being evicted long time tenants or recent arrivals?”
Let me see. I will try to answer these.
The Village
No, but I think there are some rent control hold-overs
Yes
I don’t know
Here in Sunnyside a legal 3 fam converted garage 1 bedroom with back yard has been empty for 2+ months..the guy wont lower the asking price….in the 9 years we have been here none of the apartments have been empty even a week…
I found a Craig’s list announcement for my building announcing that they are now offering 1 bedrooms starting at $100 less per month than the last announcement I saw. They are now starting them at $270 less than I am paying and $330 less than they want me to pay next year.
At first, I decided I was willing to move just because I was angry at the landlord - partly because they screwed me over last year when I couldn’t move because of my knee and partly for assuming that they should always be able to raise rent because any other offer in the neighborhood was a “special move in” offer. Did it never occur to them that they should be making special offers to keep a good tennant? No, I guess not. Remember, when I sent in the application for this place, I had the highest credit score the agent had ever seen and I pay my rent pretty much on or before the 1st of the month, not inside the 10 day grace period.
However, recently, I have started to see deals I would want to take just for the heck of it. Saw a condo (and yes, I would confirm that the mortgage is being paid and all that) that is way closer to work (3 or 4 suburban Metro stops closer at least 12 minutes, maybe more), way better amenities (indoor pool), larger, and includes all utilites (including basic cable) for $30 more than I pay now and $30 less than they want for this place in two months. Wow. Not sure if that includes high speed internet or not.
I need to draft that intention to vacate letter right now.
Polly-Once you draft that letter, are you comitted to move or can they offer you a better deal?
Obviousy they should have offered you the better deal before.
They can offer me a better deal, but they risk me having already signed another lease. I gave them an opportunity to make a better offer now by asking the office manager who needed to get the intention to vacate letter and telling her that I knew they were offering the apartments for much better deals to others. She made the above referrenced comment about getting better offers for moving in and when I cited an actual number, she pretended I was talking about the county’s special moderate income subsidized rent program. I don’t qualify for that, but it was interesting that she mentioned people who used to be market rate renters in the building applying for the program and moving into the program apartments in the development. Means that she is lying through her teeth when she says the advertised rates are for smaller apartments as nearly all of the really small ones are probably in the subsidized program.
They sound like vultures.
If it’s not too much of an inconvenience, I’d move if I were you.
Good luck!
Also, hope you are feeling much better now, Polly.
State or local tenant law normally dictates the required notification period. For example, the requirement is 20-days notice by either party on a month-to-month in my area (Seattle).
But I doubt that anything in the codes would require you to follow through on the notice, once given, if some subsequent deal is arranged in the meantime.
Of course, by negotiating while that clock is ticking, you are taking on some risk, in that the LL could also be negotiating and signing a lease with someone else at any moment, leaving you high-and-dry. And you would definitely want a new lease signed at the end of any negotiations to document the change of plans, or the LL would be within their rights to argue that you should have vacated according to your notice given.
They would have a very hard time negotiating a new lease with a new person. I have been here 5 years. This place needs a major overhaul. There are cracked tiles. The cheap carpet has to be replaced. If I were to stay an extra week or two, what could they do? They can’t get an eviction notice that quickly. They cannot guarantee when the place will be habitable for a new tennant. I rented this place site unseen, but that was in 2004 and they were the newest/highest luxury place in the area. Now they are just one of the older spots with substandard amenities. And I am pretty sure they know it, though you could never get them to admit it.
On my third cup of tea already. Picked up a virus; a mild dry cough, but the aching legs and kidneys are something else. This bug gets a passing score.
Swine flu gotcha moment?
Organization, swine flu
Swine Flu — Response To A Global Crisis
Flu outbreak declared emergency
Move by Obama gives hospitals more options
By Jackie Calmes and Donald G. McNeil Jr.
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
2:00 a.m. October 25, 2009
…
“Move by Obama gives hospitals more options”
And more easy money in Big Pharma’s pockets.
90 year old woman just died around here from swine flu- so much for the immunity of over those over 57.
Are you sure she wasn’t using a fake ID? She was really 46.
they carbon-dated her
I don`t guess she died because she was old. “kidding” Its like when you hear about a heavy smoker or heavy drinker passing on at age 80. It was the drinking that killed him. lol
Lane
I agree with Lane. Maybe she died cause she was old.
There are over 200 people that die each year form aspirin. What about the thousands that die from the regular flu each year?
That stuff doesn’t get any pub. NOW if a person dies from flu like symtoms(who’s 90!!!), she has this horrible disease.
alpha-sloth
A good portion of deaths related to the General or Swine Flu are from underlining health issues, which many times trigger a secondary infection or Pneumonia, etc…
90 years old is eldery (weaker immune system). I listened to some sane doctor on NPR, specialzing in Immunology from a leading university hospital. The magic year for immunity according to the doc at the NIH is 1957.
The 90-year-old killed by H1N1 could have been immune to that strain 20 years ago, but may have lost that immunity due to age.
In any case, everybody will die of some cause at some time.
Are we really immune to anything at age 90?
Are we really immune to anything at age 90?
The amount and variety of bacteria living in anyone’s mouth is amazing if you have never seen it, say in a gram stain. Our immune system keeps those bugs from wreaking havoc. Once you’ve had chicken pox, the virus lives on in you for the rest of your life. Sometimes that virus will return as a case of shingles when the immune system permits it. There are many other places in the body where bugs are constantly kept in check by the immune system.
I doubt it. Good point! Old age is the cause of death. Yeah it’s frightening and people try to confront the fear by losing their reasoning and trying to believe in an imaginary friend.
In the days I was dragged to church, I noticed most churchgoers were old people (white-haired or blue-haired). That was decades ago. Probably still the same situation. Betcha most of those white-haired people did not go to church when they were 20 years younger.
Best way to improve your immunity? Combination attack by sweating out the toxins, drink lots of water, eat proper nutrition, and be moderate in everything else. You’d be amazed how a good sweatin’ cardio workout can improve your immunity.
check out these medical photos:
http://www.popsci.com/science/gallery/2009-10/best-medical-images-2009
In the days I was dragged to church, I noticed most churchgoers were old people (white-haired or blue-haired).
YMMV. From personal observation over the years:
Mainline Protestant: Mostly oldsters
Catholic: A mix, singles, young families, middle age folks and oldsters.
Non denominational (Evangelcal): tends to be mostly younger families.
Image of a gram stain from mouth scrapings The smallish dark purple rods & spheres and the pale pink rods & spheres are bacteria. The very large pinkish objects are cells & cell fragments. We all have stuff like that in our mouths.
Jack La Lane at age 95 is still kicking, lifting weights for an hour and a half and swimming or walking a half hour every day.
Had an older brother who died at 97. So I kind of wonder if genetics has something to do with him being strong and long living still.
What percentage of 70 year olds lift weights 90 minutes a day?
BTW: I saw a blurb on a site that interviewed Jack LaLanne:
http://www.shareguide.com/LaLanne2.html
Share Guide: You believe that a little bit of red wine with dinner is okay, right?
Jack LaLanne: Yes. Doctors say that one or two glasses of wine a day is okay. But they don’t tell you drink a gallon! Look at the French people, one of the longest lived people on this earth. They have wine for lunch and for dinner, but they don’t get drunk. You know, if you can’t have something that gives you a little pleasure in life, then what the heck is the good of living?
But according to the HBB credo it is a waste of money to buy wine when water is free. Imagine, paying $25 for a bottle of wine when you can have the same amount of water for pennies.
But according to the HBB credo it is a waste of money to buy wine when water is free.
Huh?
Yeah. You can pay $1.99 for a bottle of Charles Shaw (albeit it’s hit or miss on which bottle is the best tasting) at TJ’s. I would not drink LA tap water. The water I buy is more expensive than the wine I buy at TJ’s.
Eddie is just trying to be difficult. Again.
Yeah, I was pointing out that it’s apparently not a *total* immunity that those alive in 1957 have. They(!) can still catch it.
alpha-sloth
Point well taken. Most people will come through the Swine Flu just fine. All this hysteria is just ridiculous.
Three interesting things I’ve heard recently about swine flu:
1) Everyone that has the flu in my area (central KY) tests positive for swine flu- no one has yet tested pos for normal seasonal flu.
2)Pretty much everyone is going to get it.
3) Many who get it won’t even realize it, they may just feel a little ‘down’ or like they have a mild cold for a day or two. (Obviously in some it will be much worse, possibly fatal.)
To update my previous post (I do my fact checking after-the-fact) we have had 910 swine flu cases, 4 seasonal flu cases, and 10 deaths- in the whole state of KY. So it’s still pretty much all swine flu. oink-oink
Some of us “prolly” already had it this year without realizing it. So why worry? Best defense is to keep your resistance by eating lots of fresh (ideally raw) vegetables and take supplement multi-vitamin/mineral that give you mostly 100% (not 1,000%) RDA of whatever. And exercise, exercise, exercise.
raw vegetables…the silent killer…and multi-vitamins(!?)don’t get me started
When someone asks him, “Oh, what did she/he die from?”
My FIL jokingly says, “He died Stoppage of the Heart…the leading cause of death in the world.”
I heard that they do not test for H1N1 anymore. If you die it is just reported that it was H1N1. Modern logic.
I heard that they do not test for H1N1 anymore. If you die it is just reported that it was H1N1.
Where did you hear that, Skye?
Take care, buddy. I hope your version is milder than mine. I’m definitely getting better, but last night was the worst night I have had. Coughing not sleeping. Ugh.
Now here is a guy (or perhaps a gal
) whom I would like to see posting on HBB! Apparently I am not the only individual who has questions about whether the Fed, the FDIC and Megabank, Inc are collusively engaged in real estate price fixing.
If so, does such price fixing constitute a violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. Inquiring minds want to know!
So far as I am aware, US government officials do not operate in a rarefied layer of the atmosphere above the rule of law, but please correct me if I am wrong (perhaps the fact there is a financial crisis renders illegal activities legal?)…
Ballbuster
October 22, 2009 02:28 AM
John Walsh, DataQuick president: “It’s because they’ve concluded that flooding the market with cheap foreclosures in this economic environment may not be in their best financial interest.” As it has been said many times in this forum, the Big Bankers are withholding hundreds of thousands of foreclosed homes from the market even though these loans are non-performing and upside-down. Under old FDIC rules, before FDIC allowed slippery accounting to replace “mark-to-market,” banks had to unload non-performing real estate asset or else face higher insurance premium. Not today. Instead of writing off foreclosures as losses, banks are holding hundreds of thousands of foreclosed properties in the hope selling them in a seller’s market.
In the mean time, the Federal Reserve is sustaining the banks with free money courtesy of the taxpayer. Instead of allowing home prices to decline so that home ownership is affordable to more Americans, the Federal Reserve and the FDIC have sabotaged the housing market This government scam is even bigger than the real estate scam of this century. BW readers are curious why the all-knowing, all-clairvoyant Palmeri has not openly addressed this scam.
It seems odd to me to have to raise the question about Sherman Antitrust Act violations on a blog. Where is the MSM on this kind of question? Why is the dirty work left to the blog community?
Or am I way out of line here, and my suggestion that price fixing may be part of the recipe for economic recovery is either off base, or else the practice is perfectly legal, given that a financial crisis is underway?
Well first , you’d have to find a reporter that know what the Sherman Anti-Trust act was, good luck with that. The ones that did were fired and have to write blogs now…
Let me specify that I really don’t know much of anything about anti-trust laws. BUT, in order to be in violation of anti-trust laws you have to either have monopoly power by yourself or be in collusion with enough other people that you have monopoly power together. So, if a bank controlled nearly all the foreclosures in an area, then maybe it could violate antitrust law by holding back its inventory in order to keep prices high. Or perhaps that is what it is required to do under its insurance policy with the FDIC to preserve capital. Or perhaps that is what it is required to do under its servicing agreements with the true owners of the mortgages (if anyone knows who they are).
Or almost certainly no single bank has control over enough of the foreclosures in an area to have any sort of monoploy power by itself. In which case it would have to be colluding with other banks in order to violate the act. But how do you find out that they are doing that? You need someone to tip you off to get permission to grab all the computers to check the e-mails. Or their lawyers are smart enough to tell them not to e-mail about that sort of thing, so they only talk about it over the phone. But who knows what those calls are about? They can say it was about who was going to sponsor which disease walkathon this year.
You just can’t prove this stuff. No one ever knows until a high up enough person gets fired and decides to turn whistle blower and prints out the e-mails or brings home copies of the incriminating meeting minutes and turns them over to law enforcement. That is what it takes.
From the Automatic Earth.
“This is just one side of the home-buyer tax credit that should be reason for concern.
At 3.5% down, an $8000 tax credit potentially (and yes, I know this is a simplified version of reality) increases the amount a buyer can spend on a home by over $200,000. A sharp mind named Nemo at Self Evident says that this is bound to increase both the supply of homes on the market (since it allows buyers to spend -much- more, getting rid of -perceived- bottom prices) and the price per home. “Nemo” estimates the rise in prices could be as much as $100,000 per home. While we might discuss or even dispute that number, the principle is obvious and not disputable.
That principle is: the US government is busy actively raising home prices. And there we are back to what I’ve been saying about Fannie and Freddie for the longest time. While the reason given by Washington is that its involvement is driven by a desire to “stabilize” the markets, that is at best only part of the truth. What the White House and Capitol Hill are trying to do is “stabilizing” the markets at a level that they find acceptable. Which, if we recognize that their policies increase the number of homes on the market as well as their prices, evokes the image of a hamster on a flywheel. And that hamster WILL get tired at some point.
Who loses in this set-up? First, homebuyers, since they pay much more for their homes than if the government would stay out of the market. Then again, what obligations do the buyers really have? They get a home for free, more or less, and often with a non-recourse loan to boot. In the end, the by far biggest losers are the American taxpayers, who have to watch helplessly as their own chosen government shifts a fast increasing share of the losses of the housing market onto their tab, all solely for the benefit of the one and only party that stands to profit.
That is, the banks. Which can unload repossessed properties at much higher prices, given the tax credits. Which can keep properties and loans at greatly elevated prices on their books, which allows them to fool their shareholders and depositors into thinking they are far more healthy then they would be without government involvement. Who can use the artificially raised “values” on their books for highly leveraged financial wagers that if they pay off allow for multi-billion dollar bonuses, and if they don’t can be channeled back to the taxpayers’ account.
Why is this so important for the government? Why does Barney Frank proudly declare that the nation has a solemn commitment to those alleged “stable” housing prices?
Because without them, a huge chunk of America’s 8000+ banks will be toast. More importantly, much of Tim Geithner’s speed-dial list will be gone. He’ll have no-one left to talk to before breakfast.
There are many of us who feel offended by the bank bail-outs and the bonuses paid with the bail-out money. But there is nothing that perverts America more than its government’s housing policies. Take away Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie and the FHA, and you bankrupt the entire financial system with the stroke of a pen. The entire far too highly leveraged structure of loans, securities and derivatives in the end is based on the US housing market. That’s why Obama and his people do what they do. Losing a million jobs a month is much less important than average home prices falling by $10,000 in that same month.
It’s a lost battle, and they know it. But that means that they have nothing more to lose either, and they might as well transfer all the losses to you that they can get away with. Which is what is happening. While you discuss who does or does not stay on at reality TV shows, who gets vaccinated and who doesn’t, who gets to fly a balloon and who stays at home, who should or should not be part of a health care system the government can’t afford to implement anyway.
And I haven’t even touched on the home buyer tax credit fraud that lets infants, inmates and non-Americans cash in. Or the Nancy Pelosi proposal, sure to be voted in, that will extend the homebuyer tax credit to everybody who can fog a mirror, no questions asked, and make it $15,000 from the original $8000. Nor the fact that home sales have not, as claimed, increased by 9.4% in September, not even with all the credits in place.
There is no better and easier way to rob people blind then to make them think you’re doing them a favor. Giving them an $8000 credit on a home priced at $250,000, that without that credit would cost them no more than $100,000, will be preferred over the cheaper home. Hey, it’s free money. Isn’t it?
The greatest theft in American history is not in the past. It’s on ongoing operation. And it’s run by your government.”
“A sharp mind named Nemo at Self Evident says that this is bound to increase both the supply of homes on the market (since it allows buyers to spend -much- more, getting rid of -perceived- bottom prices) and the price per home.”
Do Nemo’s findings suggest this increase in supply and demand are sustainable? Because my hunch is that they are temporary…
Nice post Rancher….
Thanks Rancher!
(Hwy feels now is a good time to help “stimulate the economy” by taking Mr. Cole out for breakfast)
“…Take away Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie and the FHA, and you bankrupt the entire financial system with the stroke of a pen. The entire far too highly leveraged structure of loans, securities and derivatives in the end is based on the US housing market.”
1. How many “homes” in American are bought on x2 incomes?
2. How does the above number compare to “homes” bought on x1 income?
3. How do those numbers combined relate to the following quote:
“…evokes the image of a hamster on a flywheel. And that hamster WILL get tired at some point.”
(This ad has been brought to you by: The Corporation of Bitter Renters & Savers!)
1. How many “homes” in American are bought on x2 incomes?
Just spoke with a good friend of mine who recently had a garage-mahal built. I had advised against it to begin with, but made a special point regarding making sure he can afford it on his salary alone rather than requiring his wife to work, since part of why they were getting the house was they planned to start a family.
Fast forward to today…wife just had their first child. She’s out of her maternity leave and is about to start taking unpaid time off. There’s a re-org happening at her work and they’re going to call for mandatory relocations. Obviously she has no intentions of moving, so she’ll likely be out of a job. I sure hope she gets a severance.
It sounds like money’s already tight. I have a feeling the mortgage will be overwhelming on one salary alone….
I love the stress-free existence of being a doom-and-gloomer renter.
If everyone planned their lives around living on one salary and staying out of debt, imagine how affordable everything would be today…
There is a reason we’ve been told that two incomes makes us richer (it doesn’t because it just causes inflation in the cost of goods, negating any benefit). The wealthier we feel, the more we spend…and somehow, we believe we can take on more debt because we now have “two incomes” to pay it off.
Foolish, foolish thinking…
BTW, a great read for anyone who’s interested:
http://www.amazon.com/Two-Income-Trap-Middle-Class-Mothers/dp/0465090826
One presumptive benefit of making the value of housing go up again by withholding supply from the market: It helps increase the value of toxic assets that are weighing down bank balance sheets.
From The Economist:
“…there is a clear sense that things are improving. The big banks seem to think that the provisioning cycle for bad debts overall is at or near a peak. Meanwhile they are writing up the value of some of the toxic securities whose prices have bounced along with almost every other asset in the known universe.”
Wouldn’t increasing housing prices provide Megabank, Inc with a rationale for profitably writing up the value of its toxic mortgage assets?
writing up the value ??
Exactly…Remember awhile back all the fuss over Mark-to-Market ?? They couldn’t because there was no “Market”…By building some base in valuations they improve their balance sheets…
“…banks had to unload non-performing real estate asset or else face higher insurance premium.”
Silly Mr. Bear, the banks are the insurance company…you think “they” are going to raise rates on “themselves”.
(Hwy thinks one of the “lessons” of the previous “Great Depression” was that banks were no longer “allowed” to “own” insurance companies…but that was rather “archaic” FINANCIAL INNOVATION…right Mr. SIR Greenisspent)
Could I make an argument that many bankers are still in denial and find themselves believing that if they held on to the properties long enough for the market to turn around they will be able to avoid the losses. The fed is just helping them in their carrying cost.
Isn’t a zero interest loan tantamount to zero carrying costs for banks who would like to hold on to a mountain of REO until the buyer’s market turns back into a seller’s market again? Meanwhile, myriad households on Main Street which do not qualify for zero-interest Fed-funded financing have to face the foreclosure music in a ‘buyer’s market’…
“Our most dangerous tendency is to expect too much of government.”
~President Warren Harding
I have a few questions pursuant to the Harding quote:
1) Is it reasonable to expect government officials to follow a rule of law?
2) Does the fact that there is a financial crisis in progress create an exemption?
3) If crisis situations exempt government officials from following the law, isn’t it in their interest to enact and execute policies which increase the likelihood of crises?
Let’s pose that question to Henry “Scarface” Paulson, the don that made an offer that Pelosi and company couldn’t refuse. I guess he was lucky to have Fraido Bush in the oval office.
Cheney-Shrub: “We want him to succeed as president, we really do.”
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (fpss™)
(Geez you guys, I’m trying to finish my 1st cup of joe!)
4) Is it legal to even question the legality of actions by top government officials?
I think the founding fathers would say it is not only legal but our duty!
I concur; that is why I keep raising the questions about collusion and price fixing. I am confident the MSM will eventually awaken from its torpor and pick up the discussion.
I am confident the MSM will eventually awaken from its torpor and pick up the discussion. I don’t think the electorate has suffered enough pain yet to get them to focus on such dull and unexciting matters.
That’s why we have the 1st and 2nd Amendments.
I don’t think the electorate has suffered enough pain yet ??
Maybe some truth to this…Will see…If we go the W route with the economy that may take us off the ropes and onto the canvas..Buckle your seat belts if that happens…
4) Is it legal to even question the legality of actions by top government officials?
In the end the law is what the Supremes say it is. Just like the Federal Reserve can conjure fiat currency out of thin air, they can conjure laws out of thin air as well.
conjure laws out of thin air as well ??
As they did with their recent ruling on Eminent Domain…Terrible ruling for private property rights…
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public”. Theodore Roosevelt,
+1
Yes, yes, Professor Bear, since it is abundantly clear there is an international financial “crisis” going on, we the people, to preserve and protect a more perfect union, should form conventions and militias to arrest and imprison all Fed and Treasury officials, for high crimes and misdemeanors, under our de facto bill of attainder, until the crisis is resolved and the guilty brought to justice.
Agreed.
Or did you mean something else???
You probably realize by now that I am no advocate of revolution. I simply want a financial system which is subject to a rule of law.
I suggest that whoever is responsible for enforcing a rule of law on the US banking sector ought to take a serious look at the questions of whether (1) efforts are underway to artificially prop up the value of housing; (2) if yes, whether such efforts violate the Sherman Antitrust Act rules against price fixing and collusion.
You probably realize by now that I am no advocate of revolution.
This will only work if we ALL do it together and ALL at the same time:
April 15th: File for an extension…Form 4868
(Please note that the mythical number “86″ is contained within above mentioned form…kinda weird ain’t it)
“This will only work if we ALL do it together and ALL at the same time: April 15th: File for an extension…Form 4868″
Its a nice thought, but… the extension is a notice you are postponing the filing of your return - an estimated payment is still due by April 15. I agree with your point, but I’d like to make it without paying penalties and interest.
Is it too much to ask that the Government programs actually are useful, not waste gobs of money and the employees care about it working right?
It’s time for “The Interesting Story of the Week”. I saw a friend this week and we discussed the financial fallout like we normally do. He was one of the first that I started discussing this mess with back in 2005. He is a smart guy but he thought I was completely insane when I became the local predictor of financial doom. Over the course of the next 4 years his financial fortunes took a huge hit. I know he wishes he would have listened but it’s too late now. At least he’s trying to move forward and not plan for the bubble to come back. He should still be okay.
My friend told me about some friends he has down south. Of this couple the wife was looking at inheriting a substantial fortune from her parents. The parents are now in their 80s and 90s. They had made a lot of money off of bank stock over the years. They fell in love with one bank in particular. The stock of this bank is not publicly traded and is off about 60% from its peak. This is not a publicly traded stock so the market is pretty illiquid. This bank is on the troubled list and will most likely fail. It’s only a matter of time. The stock, in reality, is most likely worthless. Although they say it is down 60% it is more 100% since no market exists. When this bank fails this couple will have lost in the neighborhood of $50 million. I think I dropped my hamburger when he threw out that figure. That is the bulk of their assets.
All the world is cheering the rise of the Dow Jones Industrial Average. It is the sign that things are getting better. As we know it just doesn’t matter for many people. The Dow can go to 30,000 and it won’t matter for this couple. They can never get back what they lost. Their loss is total. How many other couples were completely invested in such stocks as Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, GM, Fannie, Freddie, AIG, Countrywide, etc? Some of those stocks still exist (artificially) but they will never come back. It’s just a matter of time until they die. As we hear talk of “green shoots” we have to remember that for some there is no chance to recoup what is lost. Due to hubris they broke the most basic rules of financial management and now they are done.
We came close to joining that crowd. Buying in the NYC area would have put us “all in” to the housing casino. It was a close call. That keeps me humble. Humility seems to be a commodity in short supply lately. But it is worth more than gold or platinum. I’m glad I get smacked down on a regular basis. It does me a world of good. Fifty million dollars? That makes me shake.
When your chickens come home to roost, don’t put them in the same basket with all your eggs.
“Humility seems to be a commodity is short supply lately.”
But it sure is making a rapid comeback.
“Fifty million dollars?”
Those are some in-laws, but I’d be an unhappy lapdog. So I shop at the opposite end of the spectrum, like yesterday’s Pam Anderson maybe. Better scratch that idea ’cause Tommy Lee has more real estate than me, and I’m not an electrician either. I actually Google’d Pam yesterday; she’s really looking used-up now. Sorta reminds me of an early model replicant, rubbery skin, a Nexus-5 maybe, a pleasure model designed for the mining colonies.
I just googled her in images. Looked on two or three pages of images. with and without “safe search.” I still could not see the imperfection you see. And I only had two glasses of wine tonight. If you don’t want her I will have her!
Mom has sweated through a couple of military deployments, scuba and sky dives, journeyman window cleaning, a few Harley Davidsons, etc., but she’d seriously break down and cry if I came home with Pam.
I just found out that my yoga instructor is a realtor. Eeeeew!
How I am ever going to get over this? I know I will be in therapy for a long time.
Give him a good kick in his downward-facing dog and tell him it was from NYCityBoy.
She is a nice person and is kind of hot looking.
Especially in the downward-facing dog position…;)
Way to kill the moment.
Quick, give a “lesson” about the dangers of drinking coffee…she might be ever so grateful!
And don’t forget to helpfully parse out the nutrients in every mouthful of food you or she eats.
…”I am enjoying my 3 rd cup of Green tea with skim milk, Fennel and Cardamom seeds. It is loaded with antioxidants.
0g Fat
8g Protein
5mg Cholesterol”…
Because, goodness, speaking as a woman I know that makes ME super aroused…
Hahahahahah! Now, I’m just teasing you a bit. I wouldn’t, if I thought you couldn’t handle it.
So don’t be mad and come running up here on your vegetarian yoga-toned legs to kill me or anything.
Thanks for reminding me I forgot to mention Green Tea with skim milk also has
12g of sugar
130mg of sodium
Loads of vitamin D and A.
Btw you should appreciate the vegetarian thing. It is kinder to animals. I know Pam Anderson also known as “Every mans bundle of JOY” appreciates it.
If you kill a cow, you eat for a year. It takes the slaughter of thousands of wheat shafts daily for your bread.
Meat is murder. Vegetarianism is genocide.
If you kill a cow, you eat for a year.
Well, that cow must be the size of Paul Bunyan’s pet, the Big Blue Ox named Babe, is all I can say. There is no way one regular cow would last me a whole year.
It takes the slaughter of thousands of wheat shafts daily for your bread.
Well, maybe they like it!
Ya get ~700 pounds net meat from your avg steer. Two pounds a day? More than adequate, especially if you’re slothful, like all good Americans. Don’t fool yourself. Meatatarians are the merciful. Vegetarians…well, do the numbers…
(I hope our vegetarian host is merciful, or at least asleep.)
alpha-sloth
lol- good one.
Downward-facing dog is helping me get rid of plantar fasciitis.
Yoga, swimming along with a vegetarian diet helps with plantar fasciitis. The whole grain vegetarian diet reduces swelling in the body.
Thanks, yes, I’m realizing this. I miss my running though!
Although many people think of Yoga only as a collection of various stretching exercises and postures to a limber body it is more than that. Yoga also includes breathing techniques, meditation, visualization, progressive relaxation practices, self analysis and altruism. All of these have a common purpose to heal.
Get an invigorating foot massager like the footsie wootsie which stimulates the circulation and relaxes the foot muscles.
I am glad to hear you do yoga. Same here I love to run and have sometimes enjoyed the runners high.
Thanks, yes, I’m realizing this. I miss my running though! I was hiking in the mountains the other day & got a sudden severe pain in the sole of my right foot, felt exactly like plantar fasciitis is supposed to feel. Except that it didn’t happen with every step. When I got back home, I gazed deep into my own sole and found a thorn at the painful point. Removing the thorn cured that problem. I wish all my problems were that easy to fix.
Although many people think of Yoga only as a collection of various stretching exercises and postures to a limber body…
I prefer to not think about yoga at all, ever.
I also don’t get the running thing. It just makes no sense to me. Now as it happens, I can run like blazes, but only if it’s toward food or away from monsters.
Or if it’s a small monster that could possibly become food, then I’m conflicted and just bound up and down in place while my feet and stomach sort things out and then I do what they say.
This seems like reasonable exercise to me.
The craziest exercise of all is, of course, power walking in the Mall.
SUguy,
You said Yoga includes altruism? Yikes! I’ll just take the stretch and meditation. Actually I knew a young objectivist who is a Yoga fanatic.
Altruism is best discussed by Harry Browne:
http://tinyurl.com/ykcsar2
I also don’t get the running thing. It just makes no sense to me.
One of the most remarkable benefits of running is that it affects your brains hormones also called neuroregulators which include acetylcholine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, dopamine, beta-endorphineand vasopressin. These brain chemicals will make you feel good and are powerfully involved in feelings of reward and well being. So running can substitute for shopping not only will you feel good but you can save loads of money just like the renters.
So in the long run it is better to run than shop
…your brains hormones also called neuroregulators which include acetylcholine, norepinephrine, adrenaline, dopamine, beta-endorphineand vasopressin…
Once again, I feel incredibly riveted! This is even better than hearing about green tea carbohydrates!
So in the long run it is better to run than shop
Hmmm. Hey, is that supposed to be a joke, there?
I’ll bet whipped cream does the same thing to your brain, Oly.
Whipped cream…or running? You decide!
I wore my HBB tee shirt on a shopping trip to Trader Joe’s last night, and two of the store’s employees made the effort to read it. This led to interesting conversations with both of them.
One had bought her SD county home back in the early 1990s, and was happy with the fact that her monthly nut is lower than current rent on comparable housing. She also told me about how her investment adviser helped keep her from losing her shirt during the stock market crash over the past couple of years.
The other lost her home in a fall 2007 fire and is planning to use insurance proceeds to rebuild on the same plot of ground. Both conversations were enjoyable; I will have to wear the t-shirt in public more often, as it appears to be a good conversation starter.
“…One had bought her SD county home back in the early 1990s”
Hey Mr. Bear…what do you estimate was her “breast size”…did she have a “diamond” the size of a walnut…is trader joes her second job…does her “significant other” have jet ski’s & a “Hummer”…did they take their kids on their 3rd Disney cruise…what about Hawaii, did they go there to renew their vows… (inquiring minds want to know!)
LOL! MY first thought was how could a $12/hr TJ’s clerk be able tp afford a home in America’s finest city?
- Bought in 1992
- Was employed for over 30 years by a phone company
- Now retired, working to alleviate boredom…
Never put that “equity” to work…tsk tsk tsk!
Ever try Stuffed Salmon Belle Mer? In the frozen fish section at TJ’s. Love that place. Convenient packaged vegetables, reasonable prices and usually a small store whichever one you are in. You know where everything’s at.
And I don’t have to wait 30 minutes for a parking place. At Costco in South Torrance, I usually have to wait that long for a place to park. They need to consider building a parking garage. Grr! I avoid that Costco for that reason.
Funny you mention the CostCo parking shortage. A lack of sufficient parking spaces for the hordes of BigBoxMart shoppers seems to be a common feature of all CostCos that I have ever visited.
You’re brave, PB.
I just wear my t-shirt around the house. It’s tempting to wear it whist making the open house rounds, but I’m afraid some realtor or FB seller would beat the daylights out of me!
Apparently, not everyone in the Fed’s “family” is in a state of quasi-permanent denial about the housing bubble:
Sunday, Oct. 25, 2009
Former Fed chair sees long slog ahead
Volcker blunt at Shakertown event
By Tom Eblen - Herald-Leader columnist
Paul Volcker, who was chairman of the Federal Reserve under presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan and is a top adviser to President Barack Obama, has earned a reputation as one of the rarest of creatures: a straight-talking economist.
Volcker was true to form Thursday, when he came to Kentucky to speak at the Shakertown Roundtable, a gathering of about 60 of the state’s most influential leaders in business, government, education and philanthropy.
The 82-year-old economist was blunt in his assessment of what caused this economic crisis and what’s needed to fix it. And he brought things back into focus when some executives tried to point fingers, shift blame and complain about recovery strategies.
“We spent, as a nation, more than we were producing,” Volcker said. Mix that with a real-estate bubble, reckless financial manipulation and too little government oversight, and it was a recipe for disaster.
“We were leveraging the economy … and then it all unraveled,” he said, adding that the recovery will be a “considerable slog” that could take years.
…
“The 82-year-old economist was blunt in his assessment of what caused this economic crisis and what’s needed to fix it.”
I’ll be blunt too: 14+ % mortgage interest rates!
(Geez, I walked right into that one didn’t I!)
14% mortgage rates? Could they last for a good long while? Sigh. HBB porn.
ooohh yeah..(*pant-pant*)…14% baby(*pant-pant*)…fixed rate…(*pant-pant*)…20% Down!!!..(*gasp-grunt*)
Volker has the gonads to do what had to be done. All of his predecessors have been castrated which makes them nutless.
“predecessors”
Did you mean to say “sucksessors”?
‘In the best line of the day, Volcker said Americans need to shift away from “financial engineering” and focus once again on civil, mechanical and electrical engineering.’
Meanwhile, Megabank, Inc and its minions are busily engineering a reflation of the housing bubble…
Hear Hear.
I second that. Hear, hear!
In the past few days I’ve seen a lot of post about the rent versus own equation in Florida. Am I to believe that residential rents are plummeting in Manhattan but holding fast in Florida? That seems a little hard to believe.
It depends where you want to rent. Rents are holding up stubbornly in this retirement community. But the reason is, some of the owners refuse to drop trou. I know one guy who has a property where he won’t reduce the rent. It’s remained vacant for almost a year, he keeps advertising it, but he just can’t rent it. If he came down $100, he could rent it. I’d be dropping the rent like a lead sinker in Tampa Bay, but that’d just me.
If he came down $100 ??
Stubbornness to a fault…
Stubbornness to a fault…
This is stupidity at its finest. A business transaction should have two winners. “The seller as well as a buyer”. Both parties should enjoy the transaction. Imho
There are two fools in any business. “The one who prices too high and the other who prices too low”
You have to see this to believe it:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xavq2d_painfully-honest-and-epic-mobile-ho_fun?from=feedblitz_523284_2755156
This fellow has broken the first rule of business.
“If they don’t like you they will not do business with you”
He don’t care….
Dollar’s Doom Puts a Face on New $1 Million Bill - Bloomberg Article.
Who’s face would you put on the $1 Million Bill?
http://tinyurl.com/link-2-bloomberg-com-article-1
http://preview.tinyurl.com/link-2-bloomberg-com-article-1
I’d nominate Greenspan, possibly Reagan.
Bernanke would be my choice.
Lao Tzu: “No bad students…only bad teachers”
DennisN: “There are no stupid questions: only stupid people.”
the president of China
Robert Mugabe.
Treasury surprises Chrysler Financial owner with news of closing
The Detroit News
Washington — The Treasury Department said Thursday that Chrysler Financial will close its doors by the end of 2011 — a move that could cost hundreds of jobs in Metro Detroit.
“Chrysler Financial is currently following Treasury’s directive to liquidate its business in an orderly fashion,” said Kenneth Feinberg, the Treasury Department’s special master overseeing pay for top executives at the seven firms that received government bailout money including automakers and Farmington Hills-based Chrysler Financial. “Accordingly, Chrysler Financial is currently pursuing a successful wind down of its operations by Dec. 31, 2011.”
Late Thursday, the Treasury didn’t back away from its statement that Chrysler Financial would liquidate within 26 months.
Treasury spokeswoman Meg Reilly said “Treasury recognizes that Chrysler Financial is continuing to operate in the normal course of business while acknowledging that the origination of new retail and wholesale lending for Chrysler Group LLC is being handled primarily by GMAC. Treasury also notes that Chrysler Financial will continue to service its obligations to its existing lenders as required by its outstanding loan agreements.”
Cerberus Capital Management LP officials said they were unaware of any liquidation orders and that closing isn’t part of their business plan.
A Treasury official said on the condition of anonymity that Chrysler Financial “is in the process of liquidating and wants to be fully wound down by 2011. We state it as the current aspiration, not a plan that is set in stone, and we drew that conclusion from the company’s submissions and our discussions.”
“…a move that could cost hundreds of jobs in Metro Detroit”
OK let’s ask ourselves a question: Is Detroit really the best place in America to have ALL the automobile Industry…wouldn’t Kentucky-Tennessee-Alabama-Arkansas-Mississippi-West Virgina make more “economical” sense?
could cost hundreds of jobs in Metro Detroit ??
I am surprised there are 100,000 jobs “left” in Detroit…
Recent Financial Times interview with George Soros Excerpt: Q: When it comes to financial reforms in the United States specifically, what are the most necessary ones? What are the most necessary measures? GS: You do need to regulate the banking system. Basically you’ve now given an implicit guarantee to the banks that are too big to fail and you have to then regulate them in order to ensure that the guarantee is not invoked. That’s the job of the regulators. They fell down on it. They let the banks regulate themselves and the banks ran away with that opportunity and got into trouble, so you can’t let them get away with it, run away with it. You have to reduce the amount of leverage that they allowed to use…And you have to recognise that the whole concept of how financial markets operate was false, namely the idea that they tend towards equilibrium. They don’t. They actually are prone to generate asset bubbles and so the regulators have to accept responsibility about not letting those bubbles become self-reinforcing and create a crash. That responsibility they expressly refused…FT: Are you confident that when things get better, when the economy, when the financial sector are more robust, there will be sufficient political will to impose the sorts of restrictions you’re discussing?
GS: No. No. Because actually banks are very influential politically and now the remaining banks … we’ve got three or four banks that dominate the banking scene in the United States. They have a quasi-oligopolistic position and they want to use that clout to protect that position. So you will have a big political struggle to get the right kind of regulation through.
Read the whole thing.
I’m getting ready to go out for the day in a little bit. That means I have some time to hang out at the HBB and mess around on the Internet. I decided to look at some Craigslist listings for Manhattan. I haven’t done that in a while. I’m looking at a neighborhood that is close to work and very desirable for us.
I can’t believe what I am seeing. I literally have drool on my keyboard right now. I am seeing places for $1,800 or $1,900 that would have been $2,500 or more two years ago. If my lease was up for renewal right now I would be squeezing our landlords like you wouldn’t believe. I see no reason why these deals won’t be there in February or March when we haggle with the landlords. I will have no problem moving if the situation is the same. I would say these rent prices pre-date our 2005 arrival. I hope all of the “owners” are happy that they aren’t throwing their money away on rent. Bwahahahaha.
Are these estimates of incipient US bank failures plausible? They are far worse than any other numbers I have seen thus far…
Finance and Economics
American banks
The pyramid principle
Oct 22nd 2009
From The Economist print edition
America’s big banks are getting healthier. The small fry are not
…
In the second quarter of this year America’s banking system overall slipped into the red as bad-debt provisions mounted. There is likely to have been more pain in the third quarter. CreditSights, a research firm, reckons 600 to 1,100 of America’s 8,200 banks may need help from, or winding down by, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, compared with the 118 that have failed since the beginning of 2008.
Right now America’s banking system resembles a pyramid. At the top, two or three firms are doing well. But beneath them are a handful of giant conglomerates that are struggling towards profits, a tier of middling banks with overexposure to risky assets, and a vast base of small banks in deep, deep trouble.
Phew….It’s over!!!! and all of you non-believers that didn’t think the gubmint could fix “it” in short order, are screwed once again. Shoulda bought a house or three, to be ready for the next moon shot.
Big gain in GDP would show end of deep recession
3.5% annualized increase would be first growth in a year.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The U.S. economy probably grew at a healthy pace in the third quarter of the year, the first economic growth in a year and a strong sign that the worst recession in the postwar era is over, economists say.
Helped by massive government stimulus that supported consumer spending and residential investments, U.S. gross national product probably rose at a an annual rate of 3.5% in the third quarter after plunging by 3.8% in the past year, according to the median forecasts of economists surveyed by MarketWatch.
The GDP numbers will be released on Thursday. GDP will be the top headline in a fairly busy week for economic data.
The economy has contracted in five of the past six quarters. The losing string was broken only in the second quarter of 2008, when the government briefly stimulated the economy with tax-rebate checks.
“Third-quarter growth is expected to not only turn positive, but to do decisively,” wrote Nigel Gault and Brian Bethune, economists for IHS Global Insight. “The deepest and longest recession since the 1930s is over.”
Since the crisis is over, why are Congressmen still considering a renewal of $8K first-time buyer stimulus? Shouldn’t concern about fraud in this program outweigh the stimulus benefits during the post-crisis period?
When children learn a song they sing it over and over and over again. The same can be said of the “green shoots” crowd. They only know one song so that song must be sung over and over and over again.
The wheels on the bus go ’round and ’round, ’round and ’round.
The wheels on the bus go ’round and ’round, ’round and ’round.
The wheels on the bus go ’round and ’round, ’round and ’round.
The wheels on the bus go ’round and ’round, ’round and ’round.
The wheels on the bus go ’round and ’round, ’round and ’round.
(somebody help me… I can’t stop, and I forget the next verse…)
…’round and ’round and ’round and ’round and ’round and…I better shut up before somebody nails my other shoe to the floor… ’round and ’round, ’round and ’round….
LOL!
It’s over, period! In the words of the bedraggled loser OwlGore, “there is no more discussion, the consensus is in”.
However the question still remains…”Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor” ? Hell No!
P.S. The 8k ain’t going away anytime soon, or else it would really be “over”.
The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? How the heck were they able to fly that far from Germany w/o refueling somewhere…
Oh, I get it, they contracted the Japanese to do the job (just kidding with you, wmbz)
What happens if we go Neg. -2% in the 2nd quarter of 2010 ??
From the link:
Helped by massive government stimulus that supported consumer spending and residential investments, U.S. gross national product probably rose at a an annual rate of 3.5% in the third quarter after plunging by 3.8% in the past year, according to the median forecasts of economists surveyed by MarketWatch.
Says it all right there…
We are nowhere near the end of the recession. They still haven’t figured it out.
A warning label ahead for cell phones?
A 10-year survey of 12,800 people in 13 countries, overseen by the World Health Organization, finds that long-term mobile phone users could face a higher risk of developing cancer in later life. Preliminary results of the inquiry, which is looking at whether mobile phone exposure is linked to three types of brain tumor and a tumor of the salivary gland, have been sent to a scientific journal. The findings are expected to put pressure on the Government – which has insisted that mobile phones are safe – to issue stronger warnings to users.
Avid cell phone users will dismiss this report, as they do all studies like this - - but is it not possible that a radio signal powerful enough to pass through your cranium to a receiving tower a mile or more away might joggle some tissue whic
I find that most people that walk down the street, yapping on a cell phone already act as if they have a brain tumor.
I won’t miss ‘em.
So I went and checked out a new place today, and it was swarmed with brown widows! I showed the landlord the sacks and with a stick scared one out, (which was much larger than the ones around my place).Deal breaker… off to the hospital, discharge around 1pm.
Deal breaker… off to the hospital, discharge around 1pm.
A casual reader of the HBB might think you have just written about being bitten by a black widow spider & paying a visit to your local ER for treatment. I hope mother & child are doing fine.
“…discharge around 1pm.”
Don’t forget the child seat!
(ask me how I know)
Mine is home!
They made us bring the car seat in yesterday for a safety check.
Congratulations to you on your new grandbaby (g-daughter?), Blue Sky!
…and to you, Muggy, on your new baby girl!
The Housing Crisis: Where are the Foreclosure Lawyers?
By Tim Padgett / Miami Saturday, Oct. 24, 2009
A foreclosure sign stands in front of a home in Miami Beach, Florida.
Home foreclosure isn’t a legal abstraction for Yolanda Paschal, a recent graduate of the University of Miami School of Law. Her parents are facing foreclosure on the Miami house she grew up in. They’re luckier than others, since they have another home to fall back on, but the experience has convinced Paschal how acute the crisis is in Florida, which now has the nation’s highest mortgage foreclosure rate, at 17%. “I’m part of this community,” says Pascal, 25. “I can’t escape how deeply this is affecting not just my neighbors, but me as well.”
…
“…since they have another home to fall back on, but the experience has convinced Paschal how acute…”
Author intrusion:
“…it is not to “over-pay” for a home & to always have a plan “B”"
Her parents are facing foreclosure on the Miami house she grew up in. They’re luckier than others, since they have another home to fall back on…
———————-
Considering the fact that they’ve owned the foreclosed house for decades (it should have been paid off, or close to it), and that they have a new house to fall back on…
Is anyone else smelling BS here? Sounds like a classic “buy and bail” to me. Max out the mortgage debt via HELOC or cash-out on the first house, then use that money to buy a new house for cash (or close to it), then bail on the first.
If I were a mortgage fraud investigator, I’d be paying a vist to Ms. Paschal’s parents.
FACT CHECK: Health insurer profits not so fat
Oct 25, 8:37 AM (ET)
WASHINGTON (AP) - Quick quiz: What do these enterprises have in common? Farm and construction machinery, Tupperware, the railroads, Hershey sweets, Yum food brands and Yahoo? Answer: They’re all more profitable than the health insurance industry. In the health care debate, Democrats and their allies have gone after insurance companies as rapacious profiteers making “immoral” and “obscene” returns while “the bodies pile up.”
Ledgers tell a different reality. Health insurance profit margins typically run about 6 percent, give or take a point or two. That’s anemic compared with other forms of insurance and a broad array of industries, even some beleaguered ones.
Profits barely exceeded 2 percent of revenues in the latest annual measure. This partly explains why the credit ratings of some of the largest insurers were downgraded to negative from stable heading into this year, as investors were warned of a stagnant if not shrinking market for private plans.
Insurers are an expedient target for leaders who want a government-run plan in the marketplace. Such a public option would force private insurers to trim profits and restrain premiums to compete, the argument goes. This would “keep insurance companies honest,” says President Barack Obama.
The debate is loaded with intimations that insurers are less than straight, when they are not flatly accused of malfeasance.
They may not have helped their case by commissioning a report that looked primarily at the elements of health care legislation that might drive consumer costs up while ignoring elements aimed at bringing costs down. Few in the debate seem interested in a true balance sheet.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091025/D9BI4D6O1.html
Great! So there’s not much to lose profit-wise when we move our country into 20th (!) century health care. Just like every other nation in the western world. And then maybe we will finally match them in life expectancies, per capita health care expenses, and happiness with our nation’s health care system. Oh yeah, and decent, hard working middle class families won’t go bankrupt caring for a dying loved-one.
Amen, alpha.
Editor’s 2 Cents ~ Health care: Cheap at any price (hint… $900 billion)
Last week, we had the cheery news from Madame Speaker Pelosi that the cost of the House’s health-care reform bill was going to come in under $900 billion.
Phew, I’m glad to know we can afford it after all. The Treasury should be able to print that new money within a couple of weeks. Kind of reminds me of the good old days in the last Bush administration when there was no war or bailout we could not afford.
Ahem.
Now for the serious business.
There seem to be two driving assumptions behind health-care reform:
1) That people have a right to health-care.
2) That somebody else should pay for it.
I get the reason why people assume they have a right to health care: It is frankly better than the alternative - you know, dropping dead from swine flu in the parking lot outside the local hospital while nurses mix martinis and greedy docs play golf with insurance execs. But my question for any and all is just where did this right to health care come from?
Was it granted by God, like the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness we cherish in America? If so, why are we not born with a personal-care provider attached? It’s darned inconvenient having to drive my car to the doctor’s office when I want health care. At the very least, you would think that an inalienable right would come with curbside service. How about providing an ambulance for me so that I can exercise my right whenever I want to? For that matter, why do doctors’ offices shut down at night? If I have a right to health care, shouldn’t that come with a 24/7 access guarantee?
But that is mere flippant philosophy. Much more important is the nagging question of who is going to pay for my health care. Since I have a right to it, my ability to pay is irrelevant.
http://www.dailyinterlake.com/opinion/columns/frank/article_1adfb008-c101-11de-85a6-001cc4c002e0.html
“…But my question for any and all is just where did this right to health care come from?
1) That people have a right to health-care”
Do you buy your grocery’s in a public place or do you use that grocerydotcom delivery service…because I’m sure you don’t want that homeless person’s germs when you’re standing behind them in line or when their 16 year old kid makes your taco.
Well my copy of the Constitution says we have a 6th Amd. right to a lawyer. Isn’t a doctor same-same as a lawyer?
I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me, if Social Security and Medicare, both mandatory governmental insurance-type programs, are constitutional, then a more expanded national health care system would be, also. Whether or not there’s a constitutional ‘right to health-care’ is irrelevant. Much more to the point are these questions: “Can the country afford to pay for it?” “Can it be carried out successfully?” “Does anything have to be done right now about it?” and “Does the USA have more important issues that need to be handled now?” Social Security and Medicare have their own problems and doubtful futures, even if nothing else is done about national health care. The banksters are engaging in the biggest theft in world history, but never mind about that.
“Can the country afford to pay for it?” ??
We already do….Its called county hospitals and emergency rooms…
“Can it be carried out successfully?” ??
Depends on how you define success…If success is defined that we need it, its going to be expensive and increases taxes are going to pay for it then the answer is yes…
HR 615
On Tuesday, the Senate health committee voted 12-11 in favor of a two-page amendment, courtesy of Republican Tom Coburn which would require all Members of Congress and their staff members to enroll in any new government-run health plan.
Congressman John Fleming has proposed an amendment that would require Congressmen and Senators to take the same health care plan that they would force on us. (Under proposed legislation they are exempt.)
Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go to his Website and sign his petition. The process is very simple. I have done just that at:
http://fleming.house.gov/index.html.
Senator Coburn and Congressman Fleming are both physicians.
Regardless of your political beliefs, it sure seems reasonable that Congress should have exactly the same medical coverage that they impose on the rest of us.
Please urge as many people as you can to do the same!
But Karl Rove says, that an “evangelical” friend of his says, that all one has to do is go to a mosque and pray that you are healed…or something like that.
Does health care fall under ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness’?
Granted, that phrase wasn’t in the Constitution but I think it was in another important document, no?
It might fall under “promote the general welfare”, which in turn may help “insure domestic tranquility”.
Good one, combo.
Another question might be, “can we afford to NOT have healthcare available to all American citizens?”
We need mo money, it’s for the chidrens…
Michigan Gov. Granholm: Schools will be forced to make layoffs if K-12 funding cuts aren’t restored.
Gov. Jennifer Granholm said cuts to Michigan’s school aid budget could force districts to make painful spending adjustments, including layoffs, unless lawmakers work to restore funding within 30 days.
“Teachers and support personnel will be laid off,” Granholm said in her weekly radio address Friday. “Class sizes will increase, and the many programs that make our schools rich and rewarding experiences for our children will be lost. We cannot afford to let that happen, and we won’t.”
Granholm on Thursday issued an executive order requiring a $127 per-pupil cut in K-12 funding, and earlier in the week made $54 million in line-item vetoes.
In her address, she said the cuts were required under state law and likened the school aid budget that lawmakers sent to her to a “bad check that bounced almost as soon as it was written.”
Gov. Jennifer Granholm
I think she’s a good person,…talk about having to wake up and go to work each day.
Part one: Reckless Strategies Doomed WaMu
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2010131911_wamu25.html
forced to make layoffs if K-12 funding cuts aren’t restored ??
Did you see the Volker link above ?? The Govener of Kentucky quote;
“Per year we spend $9,000 on every student in K-12…We spend $6,000. on each Student in College…We spend $19,000. for each person in prison”
Send all prisoners to college. Next problem?
Send all prisoners to the gas chamber. Next problem?
Note: under common law, ALL felonies could be punished by the death penalty.
How about send them to college, and if they get less than a C avg, the death chamber? (Under common law, what ‘constitutes’ a death-penalty felony?)
Unless he or she utterly fails on all other criteria, I plan to back the first 2012 presidential candidate who campaigns on busting the “too-big-to-fail” trusts. I remain resolute in my conviction that Megabank, Inc is subject to the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Too Big to Fail: Why The Big Banks Should Be Broken Up, But Why The White House and Congress Don’t Want To
Robert Reich | Oct 25, 2009
And now there are five — five Wall Street behemoths, bigger than they were before the Great Meltdown, paying fatter salaries and bonuses to retain their so-called”talent,” and raking in huge profits. The biggest difference between now and last October is these biggies didn’t know then that they were too big to fail and the government would bail them out if they got into trouble. Now they do. And like a giant, gawking adolescent who’s just discovered he can crash the Lexus convertible his rich dad gave him and the next morning have a new one waiting in his driveway courtesy of a dad who can’t say no, the biggies will drive even faster now, taking even bigger risks.
What to do? Two ideas are floating around Washington, but only one is supported by the Treasury and the White House. Unfortunately, it’s the wrong one.
The right idea is to break up the giant banks. I don’t often agree with Alan Greenspan but he was right when he said last week that “[i]f they’re too big to fail, they’re too big.” Greenspan noted that the government broke up Standard Oil in 1911, and what happened? “The individual parts became more valuable than the whole. Maybe that’s what we need to do.” (Historic footnote: Had Greenspan not supported in 1999 Congress’s repeal of the Glass Stagall Act, which separated investment from commercial banking, we wouldn’t be in the soup we’re in to begin with.)
Former Fed Chair Paul Volcker, whose only problem is he’s much too tall, last week told the New York Times he’d like to see the restoration of the Glass-Steagall Act provisions that would separate the financial giants’ deposit-taking activities from their investment and trading businesses. If this separation went into effect, JPMorgan Chase would have to give up the trading operations acquired from Bear Stearns. Bank of America and Merrill Lynch would go back to being separate companies. And Goldman Sachs could no longer be a bank holding company.
But the Obama Administration doesn’t agree with either Greenspan or Volcker. While it says it doesn’t want another bank bailout, its solution to the “too big to fail” problem doesn’t go nearly far enough. In fact, it doesn’t really go anywhere. The Administration would wait until a giant bank was in danger of failing and then put it into a process akin to bankruptcy. The bank’s assets would be sold off to pay its creditors, and its shareholders would likely walk off with nothing. The Treasury would determine when such a “resolution” process was needed, and appoint a receiver, such as the FDIC, to wind down the bank’s operations.
…
“Needless to say, Wall Street favors the Administration’s approach — which is why the Administration chose it to begin with. If I were less charitable I’d say Geithner and Summers continue to bend over bankwards to make Wall Street happy, and in doing so continue to risk the credibility of the President, as well as the long-term financial stability of the system.”
NYCB — want to take the bait on this one?
Damn it. I was away all day.
Let me add this. They bend over backwards while they force us to bend over forward with a red ball in our mouth and a midget goat spanking us with a cat-o-nine tails and a 600 pound dominatrix that resembles George Plimpton shoving Maria Bartiromo’s favorite tooth chipper up our tailpipe.
He… could… go… all… the …way
AND HE DOES!
How the F00K did you get that one by the filters?!
…I mean, isn’t ‘Maria Bartiromo’ on Ben’s most censored and displeasing word list?
Hahahahaha!
NYC, kudos. That vision goes into my Platinum Treasure Trove of All Time Best HBB Images.
“The Administration would wait until a giant bank was in danger of failing and then put it into a process akin to bankruptcy.”
If the administration really believed that that was the solution, why have they been actively preventing that most natural of resolutions up until this point? The bankruptcy code has been available for use as a resolution ALL ALONG during this crisis..
If anything, they have consistently done precisely the opposite of what they are now describing. Their actions speak way louder than their lying words.
Exactly.
There is no evidence of survivor’s guilt in this crowd.
Too Big To Fail
Simon Buxton, 10.21.09, 06:00 AM EDT
After a year in the abyss, Wall Street toasts an eagerly awaited book of its near demise.
Almost a year after Wall Street tottered on the brink of financial collapse, titans of the banking world and beyond gathered Tuesday evening to celebrate one of the most eagerly-awaited accounts of last year’s financial convulsions.
…
One notable no-show was Dick Fuld, former CEO of Lehman Brothers, who presided over his bank’s implosion just over a year ago.
Fuld, who placed No. 9 on a CNN list entitled “Ten Most Wanted: Culprits of Collapse,” emerges from the story a tarred titan, as Sorkin elucidates his refusal to sell Lehman as a whole or in parts before its collapse, despite numerous opportunities and pressure from former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson to do so.
Where Sorkin succeeds is in translating a highly complex–and for many, uninteresting–series of events into a gripping and intelligible read. Through months of interviews and behind-the-scenes access, he renders normally stony-faced executives and politicians in three dimensions, affording the reader a rare sense of their real personalities and private conflicts so absent from the public eye.
Much of his ability to engage the reader also lies in the book’s minute details, which could only be gleaned from an unprecedented intimacy with the subject. In one attempt to illuminate the unrelenting stress of the debacle, Sorkin recounts aides hearing a nauseous, sleep-deprived Paulson vomiting in his office amidst the crisis.
The blow-by-blow introspection into the political wrangling, financial turmoil and ego management may have roused last night’s guests into celebration, but consider that only a year ago these well-wishers were themselves in dire straits, grappling with the genuine possibility of their industry and careers at an end.
On Tuesday night, perhaps for the sake of closure, they toasted not only Sorkin’s success but also their own remarkably documented escapes.
“Almost a year after Wall Street tottered on the brink of financial collapse, titans of the banking world and beyond gathered Tuesday evening to celebrate one of the most eagerly-awaited accounts of last year’s financial convulsions.”
I hope they enjoyed the Wall Street version of Belshazzar’s Feast. I would be happy to help interpret the handwriting on the wall for them in case they are having difficulty reading it.
Capital
Lessons Not Learned About Too Big To Fail
Thomas F. Cooley, 10.14.09, 12:01 AM EDT
We should know by now that we have to address this problem.
As the worst phase of the Great Recession eases and some confidence returns about the future of economy and the banking system, we seem to have forgotten what caused our economic woes in the first place. While Washington is paying appropriate lip service to the need for regulatory reform and the dangers of having financial institutions that are “too big to fail,” progress has been glacial. And the government still doesn’t know what to do about systemically risky firms.
It is easy to postpone the unpleasant task of confronting the lessons of past failures. We know this all too well: The first time “too big to fail” surfaced as a big dangerous issue was not during Lehman’s meltdown, but during the near collapse of Continental Illinois Bank in 1984.
…
Intelligent Investing Panel
Buying ‘Too Big To Fail’
Alexandra Zendrian, 09.30.09, 06:00 AM EDT
The large banks will continue to have too-big-to-fail safeguards. Buy Goldman, Barclays and Deutsche Bank.
Surprising no one, the Obama administration has decided many banks must remain “too big to fail.” And while this designation remains troubling and distasteful to some, there is also almost certainly money to be made investing in banks backstopped by Uncle Sam.
“The ‘too big to fail’ policy made sense because there was too much systematic risk should they fail,” says Marc Lowlicht, head of the wealth management division of Further Lane Asset Management. But now that the economic recovery is accelerating, the banks will survive and have stronger balance sheets, he adds.
…
Talking Business
Only a Hint of Roosevelt in Financial Overhaul
By JOE NOCERA
Published: June 17, 2009
Three quarters of a century ago, President Franklin Roosevelt earned the undying enmity of Wall Street when he used his enormous popularity to push through a series of radical regulatory reforms that completely changed the norms of the financial industry.
…
The regulatory structure erected by Roosevelt during the Great Depression — including the creation of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the establishment of serious banking oversight, the guaranteeing of bank deposits and the passage of the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated banking from investment banking — lasted six decades before they started to crumble in the 1990s. In retrospect, it would be hard to envision even the best-constructed regulation lasting more than that. If Mr. Obama hopes to create a regulatory environment that stands for another six decades, he is going to have to do what Roosevelt did once upon a time. He is going to have make some bankers mad.
Ain’t gonna happen…
I have occasionally raised the question here about when too-big-to-fail became the standard modus operandi of US banking policy. This article suggests it started in April 1980.
I predict Stein’s Law will prevail, leading to a repeal of too-big-to-fail over the course of the next decade, regardless of what the army of Megabank, Inc propagandists, financial journalists and politicians are currently saying: “Anything which cannot go on forever will end.”
The fact that the Fed chairman as of April 1980 seems to be having second thoughts gives me great encouragement that my prediction will soon come to pass. The die is cast.
Posted on Sun, Oct. 25, 2009
How to change too-big-to-fail ethic?
By Harold Brubaker
Inquirer Staff Writer
Thirty years ago, the biggest bank in Philadelphia was in deep trouble because of a bad bet on interest rates.
First Pennsylvania, then the oldest bank in the nation, had invested heavily in long-term government securities paying fixed rates of interest. When Paul Volcker, then the chairman of the Federal Reserve, raised interest rates in 1978 to fight inflation, the bank was crushed; it had to pay more to borrow than it earned on the bonds.
Investors and large depositors fled, and in April 1980 the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. - at the urging of the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Department of Treasury - coordinated a $1.5 billion rescue involving federal and private loans for the bank, which had $8.5 billion in assets.
The bailout was the first large-scale government intervention to protect a bank from failure because it was deemed “too big to fail,” said William Isaac, who as an FDIC director in 1980 reluctantly went along with the First Pennsylvania rescue plan, according to news reports at the time.
“Essentially, nobody paid much of a price. The government rescued the bank from its mistakes and established a very bad precedent,” Isaac, who was chairman of the FDIC during the tumultuous period in banking from 1981 to 1985, said in an interview last week.
The die was cast
…
Look at all the pretty bubbles…
History of U.S. Gov’t Bailouts
Updated: April 15, 2009 12:02 pm EDT
With the flurry of recent government bailouts, we decided to try to put them in perspective. The circles below represent the size of U.S. government bailout, calculated in 2008 dollars. They are also in chronological order. Our chart focuses on U.S. government bailouts of U.S. corporations (and one city). We have not included instances where the U.S. government aided other nations.
…
Thanks for that site Mr. Bear…
I popped into a bank owned open house in the neighborhood just now—3/2, living room, family room, a couple of small “bonus” rooms of marginal utility, no pool, small back yard, etc. It had new carpet, paint, granite, all the earmarks of a failed flip, and of course it’s overpriced by at least 20% (MLS #4249370 for the curious). The surprising thing about all of this is that it wasn’t an individual who fixed it up to flip, it was the BANK that did the paint/carpet/granite job. According to the agent (and yes, I was the only one there, and quite possibly the only one today), a local contractor who specializes in this sort of thing has been getting a lot of business from banks trying to fix up their REO properties. I wasn’t aware banks were into the fix ‘n flip game. Is anybody seeing this kind of thing anywhere else? This thing has little chance of selling anywhere near the asking price, which has already been reduced by $10,000 since the initial listing.
“I wasn’t aware banks were into the fix ‘n flip game. Is anybody seeing this kind of thing anywhere else?”
I think the condo we bought in 1996 fell into this category. By the account of our UHS and our neighbors, the place had gone into foreclosure, then disrepair after failing to sell over a protracted period of time. We lucked into buying it for just over $90/sq ft just after the REO owner had finished with a major renovation. Given the tsunami tide of foreclosures heading towards the lenders, I am guessing similar deals will be available in four or so years from now.
My top dollar offer for that dump is $45k. That’s all its worth.
Well, much as I’d like to agree with you, it’s worth more than that. It would rent for around $1200, so maybe $120 or so would be a reasonable selling price. Though rentals are sitting lately. There’s a house three doors down from me that’s been for rent since July, and yesterday the landlord, who’s no doubt getting a bit anxious, had an open house. I drove by a few times during the course of my normal Saturday comings and goings, and each time his was the only car there.
“A person with a new idea is a crank until the idea succeeds.”
~Mark Twain
New idea: End too-big-to-fail.
Cool, I’ll be adding one of these to my arsenal…
Taser X3
On Friday, Taser International held a demo day at the Alameda Sheriff’s Office Regional Training Center in Dublin, Calif., to show off some of the latest in electronic control devices.
The Taser X3, the newest device with multishot technology, goes beyond the single-shot capabilities of first-generation tasers and provides the ability to deploy a second and third cartridge immediately. Also, it can simultaneously zap three bad guys at once.
What is it that you’re so afraid of that you need an arsenal?
the evil people! (god bless america)
The US as Failed State
The Super Rich are Laughing
Paul Craig Roberts
Oct 26, 2009
The US has every characteristic of a failed state.
The US government’s current operating budget is dependent on foreign financing and money creation.
Too politically weak to be able to advance its interests through diplomacy, the US relies on terrorism and military aggression.
Costs are out of control, and priorities are skewed in the interests of rich organized interest groups at the expense of the vast majority of citizens. For example, war at all cost, which enriches the armaments industry, the officer corps and the financial firms that handle the war’s financing, takes precedence over the needs of American citizens. There is no money to provide the uninsured with health care, but Pentagon officials have told the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee in the House that every gallon of gasoline delivered to US troops in Afghanistan costs American taxpayers $400.
“It is a number that we were not aware of and it is worrisome,” said Rep. John Murtha, chairman of the subcommittee.
According to reports, the US Marines in Afghanistan use 800,000 gallons of gasoline per day. At $400 per gallon, that comes to a $320,000,000 daily fuel bill for the Marines alone. Only a country totally out of control would squander resources in this way.
While the US government squanders $400 per gallon of gasoline in order to kill women and children in Afghanistan, many millions of Americans have lost their jobs and their homes and are experiencing the kind of misery that is the daily life of poor third world peoples. Americans are living in their cars and in public parks. America’s cities, towns, and states are suffering from the costs of economic dislocations and the reduction in tax revenues from the economy’s decline. Yet, Obama has sent more troops to Afghanistan, a country half way around the world that is not a threat to America.
It costs $750,000 per year for each soldier we have in Afghanistan. The soldiers, who are at risk of life and limb, are paid a pittance, but all of the privatized services to the military are rolling in excess profits. One of the great frauds perpetuated on the American people was the privatization of services that the US military traditionally performed for itself. “Our” elected leaders could not resist any opportunity to create at taxpayers’ expense private wealth that could be recycled to politicians in campaign contributions.
Republicans and Democrats on the take from the private insurance companies maintain that the US cannot afford to provide Americans with health care and that cuts must be made even in Social Security and Medicare. So how can the US afford bankrupting wars, much less totally pointless wars that serve no American interest?
The enormous scale of foreign borrowing and money creation necessary to finance Washington’s wars are sending the dollar to historic lows. The dollar has even experienced large declines relative to currencies of third world countries such as Botswana and Brazil. The decline in the dollar’s value reduces the purchasing power of Americans’ already declining incomes.
Despite the lowest level of housing starts in 64 years, the US housing market is flooded with unsold homes, and financial institutions have a huge and rising inventory of foreclosed homes not yet on the market.
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/roberts/roberts102609.html
“The Super Rich are Laughing”
This is one way I can tell this bubble is not yet over. When the MSM is reporting stories about the super rich jumping off the tops of high buildings, I will look forward to pointing out that the bubble is finally starting to deflate.
How about being thrown off?
lmao….. need a hand?
Good luck with that…where do you think this Cheney-Shrub promoted company is now getting most of there REVENUE?
Xe Services LLC is a private military company founded as Blackwater USA
“…It costs $750,000 per year for each soldier we have in Afghanistan”
But Condi & Donny, Cheney-Shrub told us that we would be greeted like the French after we liberated them from Hitzler…remember: “Shazam-Islam-is -now-Democracy!
One of the great frauds perpetuated on the American people was the privatization of services that the US military traditionally performed for itself. “Our” elected leaders could not resist any opportunity to create at taxpayers’ expense private wealth that could be recycled to politicians in campaign contributions.
————————-
This is one of the most disturbing trends I’ve noticed…privatization of prisons, transportation and communication infrastructure, military support, etc. Very, very scary, IMHO.
Oylgal — this one’s for you
Developers’ bust proves a boon for land trusts
Peter Fimrite, Chronicle Staff Writer
Monday, October 19, 2009
(10-19) 04:00 PDT Smartsville, Yuba County — The frog eluded the grasp of Erik Vink, who scrambled after it along the rocky shore of the Yuba River where chinook salmon were thrashing around in the riffles.
It was a joyous day for the boyish Vink, the project manager for the San Francisco-based Trust for Public Land, as he recently toured the 595 acres of oak woodlands and 2 miles of river in the Sierra foothills that he and his colleagues had just agreed to purchase and forever preserve.
The chaparral-covered land 15 miles outside of Marysville had been slated to be bulldozed for homes. But the bottom dropped out of the economy and the plan to build homes was yanked, allowing the trust to swoop in with a $4 million offer that was quickly accepted.
It seems like a rare opportunity, but all over California, tough economic times are forcing investors and developers to abandon housing projects and real estate deals that would have made them a fortune just a few years ago. Conservation organizations and trusts are moving in to buy the land, often at bargain basement prices.
“To have property with this combination of oak woodlands bordered by river is extraordinary,” Vink said. “There aren’t many properties like this out there, especially in this low foothills belt.”
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That’s great. I wish people had done this in parts of Florida.
Editorial: The problem with “too big to fail”
The MetroWest Daily News
Posted Oct 25, 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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The lesson here is that when a private institution is too big, the consequences of its failure is just one of many dangers it presents. The solution doesn’t lie in devising bigger nets for them to fall into, or new rules to guide their behavior. The goal of policymakers should be to make the institutions that are too big to fail, too small to present a systemic threat to the economy.
Washington should start by breaking up those companies in which the government owns a controlling stake, like AIG, into smaller units. Then we can move toward cutting the other giants down to size, through legislation, international agreements and antitrust enforcement. America and the world can no longer afford to carry private companies that are “too big to fail.”
I would argue the too-big-to-fail firms should be broken up by law. That is the purpose of the Sherman Antitrust Act, and it is about time to start enforcing it.
Business
Sunday, October 25, 2009
What to do with those who are ‘too big to fail’
KNOWLEDGE@WHARTON • October 25, 2009
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“There are two issues with too-big-to-fail,” says Wharton finance professor Richard C. Marston. “First, there are institutions which are not banks that have proven capable of wrecking our financial system. This includes Bear and AIG. We need a serious regulator to watch over them. … Second, we need to figure out what to do with both the big banks and the big ‘others’ to control future risks.”
The main concern Wharton finance professor Marshall E. Blume has about big institutions “is that if the investors in those institutions perceive the government is going to remove risks [with a bailout], then you’re going to have major distortions of the market.”
While few argue that these firms should be broken up by law, as AT&T was a generation ago, many believe there should be a better mechanism to dismantle failing financial firms in an orderly way. Many say that to impose discipline on these firms, and thus discourage excessive risk taking, such a process should assure that debt holders, not just shareholders, suffer big losses when the government is forced to step in.
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AT&T has pretty much re-assembled itself these days.
Judge Green didn’t really accomplish much, did he?
Police: Madoff associate Jeffry Picower dies at 67:
Found dead at the bottom of his pool Sunday.
(hmm…very suspicious) - Alleged to have extracted over $7 billion from the Madoff scams.
http://tinyurl.com/yjbjn5m
‘ The home and property is worth more than $33 million, according to the county property appraiser’s records.’
Cue Chicago’s ‘Beginnings’ . Maybe the real pain begins for all of us soon.
Was he wisked away for a quick cremation like Ken Lay??
History will owe Paul Volcker and Mervyn King a deep debt of gratitude for saying what needed to be said when it needed to be said.
King Steps Up Call to Tackle Banks ‘Too Important to Fail’
By Jennifer Ryan
Oct. 21 (Bloomberg) — Bank of England Governor Mervyn King stepped up his call for governments to tackle the dangers posed by banks that are “too important to fail,” saying new capital rules won’t shield taxpayers from funding any future bailouts.
“The massive support extended to the banking sector around the world, while necessary to avert economic disaster, has created possibly the biggest moral hazard in history,” he said in a speech in Edinburgh late yesterday. He indicated that one solution could be to split up banks and separate riskier activities from more stable businesses such as taking deposits.
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Has anyone noticed REOs disappearing from their MLS? Weird — like some sorta conspiracy.
I am thinking of getting in SRS for a day or so this week. Gotta cover wife’s maternity leave.
Go away! Tradin’!
Arianna Discusses Public’s Bailout Anger On BBC’s Newsnight
Read More: Bailout, Barack Obama, Chase, Economy, Glass-Steagall Act, Goldman Saks, Hank Paulson, Henry Paulson, JP Morgan Chase, Larry Summers, Obama, Recession, Reform, Regulation, White House, Home
Arianna recently appeared on BBC’s Newsnight to discuss the economic crisis, the lack of reform, and the effects of the bailout on American society and politics.
Other Newsnight guests included economist Liaquat Ahmed, author Andrew Ross Sorkin, and historian Simon Schama. BBC’s Kristy Wark hosted.
To explain the public’s anger at bailed out banks, Arianna pointed to the lack of lending from institutions that were rescued with taxpayer money. “The bailout originally was defended by Henry Paulson on the grounds that it would allow the banks to lend, to jumpstart the real economy and the huge problem now is this disconnect between Wall Street and the real economy and there is nothing being done right now to change that, and that and that’s where the anger is being unleashed… It’s really about the bailout and the unfairness and the loss of faith. It’s not really capitalism.”
Thanks for that. While I check HuffPo Daily, I don’t care much for Arianna. But I like the topic and the other guest and BBC Newsnight is a good program.
Part of the allure of the TARP was the notion that it would generate a positive profit to the US taxpayer. Now they are claiming that when the books on the TARP are closed, “only” $159 bn will have vanished.
Why do I suspect the ultimate loss to the taxpayer will prove much larger than $159 bn?
Special Report The Rescue
Bailout’s hidden costs
TARP Neil Barofsky, overseer of the $700 billion TARP program, says the cost to taxpayers will be a lot greater than the government is letting on.
By David Goldman, CNNMoney dot com staff writer
October 21, 2009: 3:44 AM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney dot com) — The $700 billion bailout will ultimately cost taxpayers billions of dollars, but the government stands to lose much more than the money it’s pouring into companies.
Neil Barofsky, special inspector general for Treasury’s financial sector rescue, wrote in a report released Wednesday that the bailout has several hidden costs.
One is the hard cost of borrowing money to fund the rescues of banks and other companies. The others are, according to Barofsky, less tangible but no less important: The danger that comes with rewarding companies that took excessive risk, and the loss of the government’s credibility with taxpayers.
“You can’t just think of this program in terms of dollars and cents,” Barofsky told CNNMoney. “We try to bring attention to these other costs, which have the potential to dwarf the monetary loss in dollars.”
To be sure, the monetary loss will likely be substantial: Barofsky cites the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the Troubled Asset Relief Program will ultimately cost taxpayers $159 billion.
But Barofsky focuses his report, a quarterly update to Congress and the public, on what he identifies as the unseen costs and risks of TARP.
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Is KKR still playing the same game of loading the balance sheet of formerly healthy companies with debt and sucking out all the blood? Or do they operate under a different business model now than they did 30 years ago?
Capmark Financial files for bankruptcy
Commercial real estate company was weighed on by declines in the sector and a heavy debt load related to its leveraged buyout.
NEW YORK (Reuters) — Commercial real estate company Capmark Financial filed for bankruptcy protection on Sunday, wiping out the investment of several private equity firms including Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
Capmark, which was created in March of 2006 through a leveraged buyout of the commercial real estate assets of General Motors’ finance arm GMAC, had said earlier this year that it might file for bankruptcy.
The company said in a statement the move was due to conditions in the financial and commercial real estate markets and a lack of available capital.
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The Map of Bailout Recipients
Each marker represents the headquarters of a financial institution that expects or has already received money from the Treasury Department under the TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program). The size of each marker represents the amount of bailout money given to each institution. Click on the markers to see the institution’s name and amount it’s receiving.